Illegal knives sold on eBay
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They've become one of our favourite places to shop. With over 17 million items for sale on their website, forget about the high street, you can get whatever you want on eBay.
However, not everything we've found on eBay over the years has been what you'd expect from the biggest name in online trading. This time we're not talking about fake handbags or dodgy designer goods. Now we've found dangerous weapons, designed to harm, openly for sale.
Counterfeit designer goods for sale
Two years ago, Watchdog investigated counterfeit designer goods for sale on eBay. The company later told us it had sharpened up its act and when two months ago we bought dangerous goods from one of its rivals, eBay told us that it prevents any prohibited items from appearing on its site. On the evidence we've gathered, it looks like it was wrong.
Further searches uncovered more dangerous knives when Watchdog browsed eBay's 13,000 categories. Under antiques, we found rugs, maps and clocks. In 'collectibles' we saw, teapots and autographs. But we also came across a less savoury item; a knife disguised as a pen. Further searches on the site uncovered more dangerous looking knives, including a dagger made of plastic that is as strong as steel and a flick knife, advertised under the category 'outdoor sports'.
All these knives were for sale on eBay's UK site, even though the sellers were in America. Many of the knives we found clearly looked illegal. So how easy would it be for us to get our hands on them?
One knife was confiscated
Our researchers ordered six through eBay, including flick knives, the plastic dagger and the knife hidden inside a pen. They cost between just £3 and £9. One - a flick knife - was intercepted by Customs. The note they sent detailing why the knife had been confiscated stated that they thought it was an offensive weapon. If we disagreed, we could argue the case in court.
The remaining five knives did get through and soon arrived in the post. What caught our eye was how the sellers had described the goods on the Customs declaration on the packaging. One was labelled as a 'gift', the other a 'tool' and one even a 'prop'. It seemed they were quite happy to tell the truth about what they were selling on eBay, but they didn't want to take any risks at all when it came to Customs.
When we received the knives we arranged a meeting with the Metropolitan Police to confirm their legal status. So that we didn't get charged with carrying an offensive weapon the police recommended that we put the knives in a securely locked case and carried with us a letter explaining that we were taking them to the local police station.
The police were horrified
When we arrived, our knives were examined by Sergeant Ian Lewis, who was horrified. He didn't like the flick knives or the special pen known as a 'disguised knife', but it was the plastic dagger- classed as a 'stealth knife' - that really shocked him as it would pass unnoticed by metal detectors. Sergeant Lewis made it clear that we'd be committing an offence if we left with these knives, so we were happy to surrender them to be destroyed. In his expert opinion they we all offensive weapons, illegal to sell or import into the UK.
Police response to knife crime
Leading the national police response to knife crime is deputy assistant commissioner Alf Hitchcock, of the Association of Chief Police Officers. He told us in this case, eBay is undermining police efforts. "I find it quite shocking that a retailer and a responsible retailer at that would be selling offensive weapons. Any company selling knives such as these should clean up their act, get a grip and need to stamp it out immediately. It's immoral to allow such weapons to get onto the streets of Britain and they do have a responsibility."
Whatever the law says, we had no trouble getting these knives on eBay's UK site. And it isn't as if we did it under the counter; the whole process seemed completely above board. So, why didn't eBay try to stop us getting them? It seems the security it boasted about last year has let the company down. Its software is supposed to filter out dangerous or prohibited items by recognising key words in its online listings. But somehow it missed words such as 'flick knife', 'plastic dagger', and 'pen with knife'.
eBay should stop this happening
Dr Tom Ilube, a specialist in internet security, thinks it's within eBay's power to prevent this sort of thing happening. "If they really wanted to do something about it then they could. I think they have to get more sophisticated with the way they search for key words. If you only have a limited set of key words, and you look for exact matches it's not going to be very effective if people are being smart about the words they use."
Tom was clear that the fact the sellers were based in the US and not the UK is not an excuse. "It's not a complete get out clause. It makes it a bit more difficult but eBay already deals with the situation of filtering things out in certain countries, and it could do that in this case as well. When you're as big as eBay, you have the resources that eBay has and you have the power in the market place that it has, so it is your problem whether you like it or not. You set up the market, you run the market, it is your problem."
In fact, eBay agrees. It told us this shouldn't have been able to happen and admitted some of the knives we bought are illegal in America too. We know from the eBay website that we are not the first people in the UK to have bought from these sellers. But we hope we're the last to have bought an offensive weapon. And eBay needs to make sure that we are.
Following Watchdog's report, Mark Lewis, Country Manager for eBay (UK) came on to the programme to announce that eBay intends to ban trade in all knives, with the exception of cutlery knives, on both its UK and Ireland websites.
In a statement eBay said the following:
"Trust is the engine of our business and it is our duty to provide a safe and secure marketplace for our members. The security measures we already have in place are designed to make sure that only legal knives have been offered for sale by UK and Irish sellers on our UK and Ireland sites and we are satisfied with how these measures have been working in both the UK and Ireland.
"We have a good track record of leading the online industry in going above and beyond what the law requires in a number of areas such as fighting counterfeits or banning the sale of ivory worldwide. Similarly, our policies on weapons and knives go above and beyond the legal requirements set out by the Home Office. However, the laws surrounding the sales of knives are extremely complex and so we have decided that the best way to protect our members and achieve the safety guarantees they have come to expect from us is to remove and ban all knives, with the exception of cutlery knives, from our UK and Ireland sites.
"eBay's marketplace structure means that it will take time to work with our sellers to remove the knives currently for sale and prevent new listings from being posted. However, we are committed to achieving this as quickly as possible."
Illegal knives
The exact legal definitions detailing which types of knives are classed as offensive weapons are complex and hence open to interpretation. However, the police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons, falling under the definition of stealth knives, disguised knives, flick knives or gravity knives. Offensive weapons are illegal to sell or import in the UK.
In addition, the vast majority of knives are illegal to carry on the street, except under exceptional circumstances, regardless of whether they fall under the strict definition of an offensive weapon. However, that does not mean that it is illegal for someone over the age of 18 to buy, sell or possess such a knife, as many knives have a perfectly legitimate purpose, for example a dive knife for diving or a knife used in some outdoor activities.
eBay told Watchdog that all knives would be removed from sale on the UK and Ireland sites in a matter of weeks.
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with knife crime rising in Britain, Ebay should have taken measures before to stop dangerous knives getting onto the streets. I went on ebay and had the chance to buy an american knive that was used by the military but was not classed as a collectable. It is scary how easy they can be obtained. ebay should be more strict.
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Why single out eBay? Thousands of international retailers will be happy to ship items like this to the UK as it is accepted it is the duty of the purchaser, not the shipper, to ensure the item is legal in it's country of destination.
I'd like to know why HMRC (customs) only manage to stop 1 in 6 illegal items, does this go for packages containing drugs etc. as well - that to me seems a much bigger scandal.
It's time we had some sensible reporting about this issue - everone knows those who commit crimes using knives tend to use a kitchen style knife (cheap, disposable, untraceable etc) rather than have a paper trail of internet purchases, receipts, banking and postal records linking them to the purchase / importation weapon.
More misguided hysteria and nothing more - shame on watchdog.
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Actually, 'Flick knives' were designed and marketed for fishermen to cut nets in rough sea going conditions. Being able to open a folding knife with one hand has incredible advantages to the user. The two knives displayed in the picture are not flick knives. You can buy those extact two models in the UK, legally. They're not even spring assisted, they open manually by pressing the blade potrusion. They do not open 'automatically'.
Legal definition: "any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in or attached to the handle of the knife"
There is no button or 'device' in or attatched to the handle of either of those knives. Watchdog really needs to do their research.
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. The exact legal definitions detailing which types of knives are classed as offensive weapons are complex and hence open to interpretation. However, the police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons]
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well about time too i told you about this months ago and i got no responce at all from you
it has only taken another 10 stabbings for you to finaly bring this matter to the masses.
i only wish you had done this months ago!!
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Ebay have known about these knives being sold on their site for quite some time. My husband has reported that knives were being sold a number of times to ebay with no response. Ebay should be ashamed!
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The way in which a knife opens doesn't make it more useful as a weapon. The knives shown were not 'flick knives'. They were opened manual by flicking the thumb (Almost all lock knives sold in the UK open this way). Watchdog obviously searched 'flick knife' in the USA ebay listings. 'Flicks knife' means something totally different in the US. The folding knives shown are legal in the UK, even to carry if you have a good reason to.
[Note from Watchdog: In fact ALL these knives were considered illegal by the police]
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I reported the knife issue to E-bay and The Sun Newspaper months ago, giving both a list of item numbers and a list of sellers names so they could go directly to the items being sold!!!! i thought this would make it easy to find and stop the sale of 'pocket money sales'
Do they really care???
i gave them all of the info needed to stop it and nothing was done!
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i think this is absolutely ridiculous. knives arent just for using in kitchens and for stabbing people. some people do use them for work/leisure ie/farmers, game keepers.
i admit, the plastic knives and flick knives can be dangerous, but why aren't customs doing their job if these knives are ilegal? you can't blame it on metal detectors etc because they can find drugs, and they aren't metallic. britain has gone completely mad with anything remotely dangerous and its annoying me. Last year i went to tescos during a school lunch and i got I.D'd for a metal spoon. How ridiculous is that.
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Totally agree with comment No.3, it's not only Ebay's responsibility. What about U.K. customs? How on earth can those offensive weapons so easily get through.
Is that not the main duty of customs to protect people who live in the country and secure the boarder? I suggest U.K. should have a lot to learn from Austrilia!!!
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what I dont get is why watchdog has just advertised to thousands of people how to get passed security: just get a plastic dagger! it can't be detected with a metal detector and is just as damaging as a knife
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Ebay should have stepped up there measures to stop the sale of illegal knifes along time ago this is true. I am in no way supporting knife crime, but a teenager or anybody for that matter does not need to use such sites as ebay to gain access to a knife, they are easily accesible from there kitchens at home. I feel it is wrong to single ebay out over thus matter. There are plenty of other sites im sure that sell knifes and ship them to the UK.
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E Bay are still advertising and selling knives on the e bay site....under Collectables...Knives/ Swords....
Chech this out...not good, not good at all!
[Note from Watchdog: Richard Ambrose of eBay stated in his interview it would be "a matter of weeks" before knives would be removed]
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And 'stealth knives' still available from a UK supplier upon eBay now (time: 1955).
Very irresponsible to air this feature without ensuring that this type of thing is not actually available.
You have compounded the problem by showing potential terrorists how to obtain knives that will beat security.
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A short while ago I wanted to buy a couple of knife rests - little metal rods with feet - on eBay. I was stopped by eBay with a request for my bank details, presumably (although not confirmed) to prove I was over 18? I tried contacting them to say I wasn't trying to buy a knife, just a little metal rod with feet, but no go. Maybe I should have gone for the killer blade and asked if they'd throw in a couple of rests for free!
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During the show, in which the Ebay representative said all knives except from kitchenware would be removed from the site, I seached for 'knives' and got 1260 hits. Some were such things as commando knives - who needs those?
Ebay have a lot fo work to do...
[Note from Watchdog: Richard Ambrose of eBay stated in his interview it would be "a matter of weeks" before knives would be removed]
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As the programme was coming to an end, as the eBay representative was saying that the loophole had been blocked, I was able to go to eBay.com and see a whole range of knives including the plastic dagger for sale. These would be available to me in the UK as long as I paid for them.
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. Every effort is being made to ensure that the 'plastic knife' featured in the programme is removed from www.ebay.co.uk]
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my husband recently purchased one of the knives shown on the programme in a shop in this country - to use for opening feed bags etc. It is old fashioned pen-knife (not pen pretending to be knife) - I carry one most of the time - it belonged to my grandfather.
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[Personal details removed by Moderator]Unfortunately Ebay.co.uk's policy will not stop thosepeople that want these weapons from accessing other ebay sites and using language translation tools to find items such as this and importing them. The only real way is a policing of every item that the UK owners debit credit card has been used abroad and the item checked for its validity for UK import.
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Just watched your highly exagerated knife segment.
lets first clear up something.
you did not purchase ANY flick knife at all..a flick knife/switchblade uses a spring release.get your facts straight.
secondly the police officer who said that ALL those knives were illegal to own or sell is very much mistaken.
only the stealth knife and the one disguised as a pen are prohibited to carry..you can actually own ANY knife.not all knife collectors are scally morons you know..get your facts straight before scare mongering.
you can buy (and quite rightly so) those other knives in the uk LEGALLY.they dont contain a spring release,so they ARE LEGAL.
check the knife laws before going off like some paranoid fools.
knife collectors are not villains.if some idiot is going to stab someone they will do it regardless of how good the knife is.
think about it.
what collector who spends hundreds if not thousands of pounds on collecting knives is going to risk their hobby (a legal one by the way) by carrying or using one on somebody.
if you want to ban things cos they will hurt someone ban also.
FORKS,
HAMMERS,
SCREWDRIVERS
AXES
CHISELS
CHAINS
NAILS
BOTTLES
BRICKS
SCAFFOLDING
PLANKS OF WOOD
BASEBALL BATS
CRICKET BATS
HOCKEY STICKS
ETC ETC ETC....
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ebay are the law to them self whilst youryou were broadcasting my husband came across one knife after the other;there very fast to come on program to say they do this that and the other its a shame ebay dont comply with thier own policys . ive had a very bad time with ebay as a whole .and think that something ought to be done about the site over all
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ebay say they will stop the knives being visible on ebay uk what are they going to do to stop people from logging onto ebay usa and buying the items that way. for the sake of all our children please do more ebay.
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Just been on Ebay following the show and despite them telling us that they have banned the sale of knives other than those for household use they have lied. The very first sale item I found was a pack of three knives one of which is a double bladed curved knife. No-one would use this for anything other than as a weapon. This is just one of many. Typical response from Ebay but no action.
[Note from Watchdog: Ebay said on the programme that they are going to remove knives but it may take them a few weeks]
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You can go to a shop on the main tourist shopping road at Great Yarmouth and buy any type of hunting knife you want. They also sell replica guns that look so real they make me shudder everytime I pass the shop window. There often young kids hanging around the shop where the item are on display in the window. How can we expect our great police force to maintain order when these things are openly for sale..
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After watching mondays show on ebay selling knifes i went on to ebay my self and looked if they were still selling knifes, To my shock i found that they are selling a lot off them still, i found gerber knifes and at one point a 12" camping knife, And people wonder why the knife crime is on the up.
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I know EBAY have said on the programme it may take a few weeks for their maesures to take effect. I thought I heard them say no british company could sell knives. A quick search for Machette, Parang and kukri showed many british residents selling these items. One British company was offering a 10 inch military machette for sale with the proud slogan "a british company"
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I have watched the the piece about dangerous knifes on ebay whilst watching it I was on the internet and had a go on ebay and low and behold I could purchase the knife which was advertised.....
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Out of curiosity I have also just checked Ebay. I typed in a search and British sellers are offering Jungle Hunter knives, shadow daggers to name only two types. Also a variety of swords.
The sooner a blanket ban is made the better
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After your excellent programme and having witnessed the glib response from Ebay Head(?) I booted up Ebay and lo and behold - the search entry 'flick-knives' produced the whole collection you had featured on the programme. So he lied when he said that the problem had been addressed!
I notice that some are promoted as sporting knives such as 'The Skinner' or 'as issued to US Military'. As far as I could see, a lot originated in the US.
Sadly, however, there are many other retailers selling these weapons around the country both in backstreet 'Sporting Shops' and on line.
Keep up the good work and please don't let this subject drop
Charles
[Note from Watchdog: In his interview Richard Ambrose of eBay stated it would be "a matter of weeks" before knives would be removed]
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i hope ebay are going to disclose all the name and addresses,of those who purchased these knifes,im sure a copper at your door,would scare the wit out of any teenager who bought one of these.The other side of the coin is,i think watchdog have just made an enormous mistake in showing the plastic knives passing a metal detector test,to any extremist group,you have have shown on national tv,where to access these knives,and that they will pass security at our airports and could end up on our airplanes,what a short sighted thing has been done to sensationalize a point.It would have been far better to say,for the benefit of national uk security we will not show one of the knives bought,out of duty of care towards the british public,suffice to say in the wrong hands,it could cause more than 1 single stabbing
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I was horrified to see these sold on ebay, I went and checked and all the knifes watchdog told us about and they are all still there!!! Ebay has actully allowed them to stay on ebay! Can't they block things straight away!
[Note from Watchdog: Richard Ambrose of eBay stated in his interview it would be "a matter of weeks" before knives would be removed]
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if you log onto ebay uk and type in the search for bowie knives you might be a bit shocked at what is on offer i personaly have bought an 18inch bowie knife off this site for £2.50p and it is deadly it is razor sharp and was posted to me within 2 days i no longer have this knife but used to collect them they never left my house
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Good report, but one thing you missed out on Ebay:
If you do a search on the word "ATHAME" you'll find a whole string of knives being sold on ebay UK that would make you go cold. The sort of thing that could be used to stab and disembowel in one go. They are intended for use in religious practice, but there's nothing to stop them appearing on the street.
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Ebay removed a toy plastic gun I was selling ! Say no more !
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To My knowledge at least 3 of those knives are entirely UK legal(the three assisted openers with the thumb studs)as long as they are not carried on the street if over 2.5 inches in blade length.In my experience knives of this type pass customs with no trouble whatsoever and not only that but they are reguarly available from UK based internet stores and highstreet stores. see www.heinnie.com I would also like to challenge the concept that an assisted opening knife is not a tool and could only possibly be used to cause bodily harm. Just like any knife, folding or fixed there are a multitude of legal, etheical uses for a blade besides causing damage to another human being.The entire feature should not of been about Ebay, in the case of the 3 assisted openers all they were doing was providing a platform for US sellers to provide UK LEGAl knives to UK residents. If you had done your research properly you could of done a feature on why assisted openers are LEGAL in the uk as i feel that issue is worthy of debate. Instead i feel watchdog has just misrepresented the law in an attempt to get a high ammount of viewing figures for the show and as a result of this scaremongering many ethical collectors and bushcraft enthusiasts can now no longer use ebay to purchase LEGAL knives.
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. The exact legal definitions detailing which types of knives are classed as offensive weapons are complex and hence open to interpretation. However, the police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons]
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Well congratulations Watchdog - ebay UK announce they are to enforce a blanket ban on 'non-domestic' knives.
Feeling pleased?
So a few hundred UK businesses are shut down overnight, thousands of genuine collectors, bushcraft enthusiasts, campers, hikers etc can no longer buy the equipment on ebay to pursue their legal hobby and ebay continue to sell the one type of knife that is consistently shown to be the most common type of knife used in violent incidents!!
Don't you lot get it - ban all knives and they will use screwdrivers, ban the screwdrivers and they will use hammers - time you started to blame the criminal not the tool.
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After watching the show I thought I would give it a go and see how many knifes I could fine on Ebay. Shockingly I am able to buy any type of knife I could ever imagine and even from uk sellers. This is very poor and what worries me now is some people will go onto ebay after watching the show and buy them. That will mean more dangerous knifes ut there in the streets of the UK. Why didn't Watch Dog research to see it Ebay had pulled the knifes from their store before broadcasting this story. [Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. Every effort is being made to ensure that the 'plastic knife' featured in the programme is removed from www.ebay.co.uk]
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Knife law is very specific, and I'm betting most officers do not know the specifics of what constitutes a certain class of knife. The disguised knife and stealth knife were illegal, the folding knives were not. They were manually opened, not via a button. The smaller black model was 'spring assisted', and even this is not classed as a flick knife (Switchblade). This was pure misinformation and demonized a legal and legitimate tool.
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for you comment. The police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons, falling under the definition of stealth knives, disguised knives, flick knives or gravity knives. Offensive weapons are illegal to sell or import in the UK.]
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Ebay pulled the wool over Watchdog's eyes in this story. Constantly we were told www.ebay.co.uk would block knives from sale. However log on to www.ebay.com which is the US parent site and these knives are still available for purchase. Ebay appear to be acting in the the public interest, in reality their profits are paramount. Most multinationals use web programming to detect where the PC is located and automatically redirects the connection to that company's web site for that country, i.e. log in to www.disney.com from the UK and you go to www.disney.co.uk. It is impossible to log in to the USA Disney site from the UK. It wouldn't take much effort on Ebay's part to implement this technology and ensure to everyone's satisfaction that access to sales of these and other illegal items are properly blocked.
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The exposure to those selling 'illegal' knives is to be welcomed, but I think on this subject the media, politicians etc are either naive or at worse disingenuous. We should be concerned not just with the characteristic knife but stabbing implements including screwdrivers, chisels etc. We are missing the facts that no matter how you look at it all these implements are inanimate and it takes a human to make them dangerous. Humans are very resourceful and when something is no longer available alternatives will be found. I would not be surprised to see a rise in the number of plastic knives now that they have been shown on national TV and are undetectable. What I suggest you need to do now is go and seen how easy it is to make a knife (metal or plastic) and then decide if current initiatives will really work!
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. Every effort is being made to ensure the 'plastic knife' featured in the programme is removed from www.ebay.co.uk.]
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With regard to the reply from watchdog to HYstericalHAmsters comment: So the "Police" claim the assisted knives to be illegal do they? Which Police force is that as i would like to know who i need to complain about to the independaant complaints commision for not representing or upholding the law correctly?
The issue of whether assisted openers should be legal would make an excellent questiontime debate but as a watchdog segment which that incorrectly claims the sale and ownership of such knives to be illegal it is downright incompetence and misrepresentation.
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There is nothing stopping folk buying direct from any other countries Ebay sites, you want American Ebay put in ebay.com & you get the American site I buy American car spares this way.
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Watchdog say above that "ALL these knives were considered illegal by the police".
They should realise that what an individual policeman *believes* to be illegal has little bearing upon what is *actually* permitted by law. The "flickknives" shown were assisted-opening knives that are perfectly legal to sell, buy, and own.
The hysteria over knives and weapons in general continues.
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I would like to know why so many comments are showing up as being removed by the moderators as they broke the house rules? Did these comments really break house rules or is watchdog trying to cover up their incompetence? Perhaps watchdog needs to investigate itself! ;-p
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Following on from the information provided in the program it occurs to me that, potentially, the biggest problem of the 'plastic' based assault knives is that they would not be detected by conventional metal detector arches or x-ray machines. This now seems to be a glaringly large hole in the security measures that are routinely employed at airports and other 'screened' places. Given the devastation caused by the 9-11 attacks, initiated by knife armed passengers, how can we ensure that this type of terrorist event would not happen again when stealth weapons are so readily available for anyone to buy?
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As the program said there was no illegal knives for sale on the ebay UK site, why then does ebay decide to close down all knife sales in the UK, should they not close down the USA site instead or are they afraid of the backlash.
It should be remembered that to a large number of people a knife is just a cutting tool.
[Note from Watchdog: The knives were for sale on the UK site, the sellers were in America]
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I am horrified that these knives are available through ebay, but I am appalled even more by the information given on Watchdog itself. The police hadn't seen the plastic knife, but now millions of people know about it. It seems really irresponsible to put this on the programme, especially since ebay confirmed that it would take a few weeks for their new policies to be put into action. I expect this knife will become one of the most searched for items over the next few weeks.
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In this day and age you should not be able to buy a knife on the internet. I was shocked when I typed knives into Ebay and the variety that came up was unbelievable and these were being sold in the UK. I believe that as with guns you should have to have a licence to own a knife (as what are featured on ebay not domestic cutlery) if it is intended for recreational use like fishing or hunting.
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You people are pushing us towards a complete Nanny State. Soon all pointy sticks will have to be licenced..
The 3 locking knives that were shown are not legally considered 'flick knives' or 'switchblades' and are therefore legal to sell in the UK. THe pol
Do you really think murders buy their knives off ebay? Look in your kitchen draw. There's the answer.
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What a ridiculous outcome to a ridiculous case.
So the BBC Watchdog programme makers decided to attempt to purchase several knives on the internet that were illegal in the UK but not where they are sold.
Is this an investigation into UK customs & excise?That would be the sensible conclusion on the above premise but no,they just happened to choose Ebay from the thousands of other online retailers they could have chosen.Ebay already have stringent rules in place regarding UK knife sales,one being that you cannot even bid on a knife without Ebay having evidence you are over 18.The programme itself confirmed they had no illegal knives on their UK site.
A quick browse showed me Amazon UK,for one,have plenty of knives for sale too.I also happened to notice a ceramic bladed kitchen knife,undetectable to any scans but,ironically,you'll still be able to get one on Ebay or your local high street.
It is a pity Ebay bowed to this despite them or their sellers breaking no laws.The only laws being broken here were by the programme makers importing illegal knives into the UK.
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I see that you can still buy theses items still on ebay tonight even after the show finished.did ebay say they would be removing such items tonight?
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. No, eBay stated they would be removing these products "in a matter of weeks". Best regards, Watchdog web team]
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Wow! Just went to ebay.uk and typed in knives...Incredible! It's amazing to me that anyone who reads the papers or listens to the news could sell these things! Let's hope ebay is able to get them off of their site quickly!
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I know EBAY have responded, but will thay look at all knives? I only ask and want to point out, that I just searched for Dive Knives on Ebay...541 items for sale. As a diver these can be life support saving in certain situations, but sold to the wrong people they are as bad as items shown on your show tonight, what worries me most are BCD knives which are small to be carried on your jacket to 'slimline kit configuration' but are small for the undesired 'folk' to carry.
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Whilst we all understand the knife problem, some knifes have very legitimate purposes.
Well done Watchdog you have managed to brow beat ebay into banning all knifes which include camping knifes, multi tool knifes, swiss army knifes, yachting knifes etc. They were cheaper from the US. They are not illegal to buy here.
This is a crazy over reaction as part of the sensationalism, where goods that are legitimately for sale can no longer be purchased from ebay. A consumer programme gone mad and very disappointing. What a shame.
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knifes ant only thing get on ebay crossbows should ban there just as bad as knife if misused kill as well
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After watching your programme last night I was not shocked to see the amount of knifes you got so easy from ebay, I have been on ebay this morning and typed HUNTING KNIFE in the search bar and the amount of knife’s that still come up is frightening and there are Uk sellers in there to.
I own a security company and its costing me a lot of money to kit out my staff with stab vest and hand held metal detectors do you think ebay will send some of the profit they make from the sales of the knifes to companies like me to help pay for the equipment we need I think not. well done ebay you keep thinking about your yearly turn over we will think about keeping people safe
Regards David
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Many of the knives featured were perfectly legal to import and own in the UK (assisted openers and flipper knives), so it is hardly surprising that customs let them through. Assisted openers are very useful for people (like me) who have arthritic hands and find the normal penknives difficult to open. I don't carry my knives outside my house so why should I be penalized from owning a useful tool?
Also, most knives used in crime are ordinary kitchen knives. It is a myth that imported knives play any significant part in knife crime and banning assisted openers will do *nothing* to protect people - only education and stronger sentencing will do that.
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This is a knee jerk reaction to publicity hype. I thought you would have had more sense than to air this nonsense. This move will do nothing at all to prevent crime as you well know.
Go on, moderate away like you have for every other comment that shows dissent.
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Oh, well done, 'Watchdog'! Last year I was able to buy a new dive knife to use while snorkelling cheaper on eBay than I could from a diving shop. In future, though, thanks to eBay's knee-jerk reaction to your scare-mongerinbg story, I won't be able to. How is that serving the interests on consumers?!
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Right lets have some facts here
No1. There were no flick knives shown there,in fact the two that they claimed to be such were in fact assisted openers,and as such currently legal in the UK.FACT!
Even the other knives are not illegal to own,they become illegal when carried outside the home.
If you dont believe it check for yourself,even the plastic "Stealth" knife is not illegal to own. If you think it is then show links to the legislation.
Its the usual watchdog sensationalist reporting.And a lot of, as usual, misinformation from the police who should know better.
Still better to ban everything then no one will have them,bit like the gun ban because gangstas havent got them have they ?
Attack the problem not the tool or what next we ban hammers?
GS
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I don't accept eBay's excuse of having to contact the sellers before removing these items - when they wanted to stop people selling fraudulent DVDs on their site they removed them immediately without any delay. Surely this is a more urgent issue and should be dealt with in a similar way.
I also hope that the names and addresses of both the buyers and sellers of these knives has been passed to the police in both the US and the US.
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Do you really think that the idiots who use knives on the street buy them from eBay? They are not going to do anything that is traceable and that cost more than a £1.
The most common type of weapon is your common and garden kitchen knife which can be bought from any supermarket, or cheaper yet, from their parents cutlery draw.
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I was interested in the piece on knives bought on Ebay, but suprised no mention was made on the easy availability of the same knives in some EU countries!i live on lake garda, and our local hardware/tourist shops are full of such knives(excludind the "pen knife" maybe). add to that 3 bladed throwing knives, all kinds of working cross bows and bolts, and replica guns.
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As a Knife collector and maker I think you need to look at The shops as well who is going to pay £200-£2000 for a knife to stab someone you'll go to your local store and get a£1.99 knife or a screw driver to do that
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This article was inaccurate and totally biased towards the government induced hysteria regarding knife crime. All that you have achieved is the quashing of legitimate businesses, oh and of course the brownie points that you’ve earned from the government.
Whilst we all agree that knife crime is serious and it’s an issue that needs dealing with, punishing the law abiding citizens (again) who use them as intended (a tool for those that don’t know) is just PR work for the votes, and not addressing the real issues. The majority of knives used in crime are kitchen knives as they are readily available, yet you didn’t report this. Are we to ban said knives? What about Stanley knives, screwdrivers, other tools? A pencil can be just as deadly in the wrong hands.
Society as we know it is breaking down; this is what the government should be looking into, not creating mass hysteria through the media. But then it suits the government to brainwash people into believing that by taking knives off the streets Britain will become a safer place. It didn’t work with guns; criminals will always find a way to get hold of illegitimate weapons.
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Why as Watchdog gone for the easy 'sensationalist' approach ?
EBay has its faults but IT IS NOT A RETAILER it is a AUCTION VENUE. Most of the onus is on the individual seller and the buyer to check the legalities of a transaction, as it should be. It was good that eBay were made aware of the problem of International sellers being able to by pass their current strict policy (ie proof of age etc) but the programme's sensationalism has created a blanket ban on all sales of knives and swords, even if antique. So what have you achieved...a few headlines... Have you done any good.....NO not really...anyone can get on the internet and order knives from abroad ....at least eBay made it more difficult.
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The only crime committed here was the import of illegal knives. It was irresponsible and wrong of the BBC staff to buy knives from abroad believing their importation to be illegal. They have laid themselves open to prosecution and journalism is NO EXCUSE for breaking the law. They could quite easily have simply shown pictures of the ads.
Incidentally, only 2 of the knives shown were actually illegal, the others can be bought quite legally in the UK.
The whole piece is blatant scaremongering, demonising inanimate tools when the real problem is the criminals who misuse them.
As for ebay, it is ridiculous for them to ban the trading of perfectly legal tools and collectibles when you can get a pack of 6 lethal steak knives from a pound shop. Almost all stabbings take place with cheap kitchen knives but ebay are just punishing the law-abiding collector, worker or bushcrafter with their policy.
[Note from Watchdog: The decision to buy knives from eBay was carefully considered. It was decided it was in the public interest to expose eBay if they were facilitating the sale of illegal weapons. The only way to find out for sure was to purchase the knives which were then handed to police. Best regards, Watchdog web team]
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This is unfair on people who buy knives for collection purposes and see them as attractive. Vintage swords for some people are valuable memorabilia. I don't think its fair to penalize people who cause no harm, but simply collect. I am not denying the fact that people do buy knives with ill intent, but many household items are just as dangerous. People have been killed with screwdrivers, hammers, will they get banned? I doubt it very much. A knife is a tool, its the person that is the problem.
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An attempt to remove a 2.5 million year old tool that can be fashioned in a prison cell and can be found in any home in the country is futile. Knives have very legitimate uses and as such are essential to everyday life, the fact that they can be used as weapons is irrelevant.
If you are concerned about the security implications of non metallic knives, I suggest you carve a sharp point onto a wooden stick.
Knives are ubiquitous and always will be, we have to deal with our "knife crime" problem from a social angle.
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I think that people should actually read the Knives Act 1997 before making comments. I contacted my local MP in July 2008 regarding Ebays item listings which blatantly broke the law as defined in section 3 a,b,c of this act. I also contacted the BBC and several newspapers as various stabbings at that time made this a high profile issue that demanded attention by the authorities. My MP forwarded my concerns to the Home office who apparently raised the matter directly with Ebay. The reply I received from the Home Office completely evaded the issue and did nothing other than state that Ebay has a page indicating what items are illegal, and that Ebay user accounts maybe withdrawn if the stated conditions are contravened. Having had the matter bought to their attention by a government department Ebay failed to take any action or review their listing status and the Home Office also failed to follow up the original investigation. Ebay , as many users already know is a law unto themselves and only act if it is to the benefit of Ebay. At a minimum they should have been fined for breaking the law on at least 20 counts but nothing was done. Ebay are very quick to wave the conditions of advertising at you when it may result in a loss of revenue for them but turn a blind eye when it is beneficial for them to do so.
Well done watchdog - but you were by no means the first to address this important matter - perhaps you have more clout.
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'Watchdog' reply to JDK1985: "Thank you for your comment. The exact legal definitions detailing which types of knives are classed as offensive weapons are complex and hence open to interpretation. However, the police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons"
It is not for the police to interpret the law - we have lawyers and courts to do that. Did 'Watchdog' seek independent legal advice, or simply rely on what police officers - who as a profession are notorious for being over-cautious in their own favour - said?
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I have to say, having thought about this for a day, that I am absolutley astonished BBC television can stoop to such low levels of journalism. Watchdog has produced such a sensationalist programme it beggars belief.
I cannot imagine hoards of young thugs bothering to register an account with Ebay just to buy a knife from the US. The fact is most stabbings are carried out with kitchen knives, perhaps we should ban the sale of these too?
As for the so called illegal knives that were shown 'flick knives' they were in fact 'assisted openers' and perfectly legal in the UK, flick knives are a different thing altogether and quite rightly illegal.
In 1997 the public ownership of handguns was banned in this country, in the following two years gun crime quadrupled, it has still not returned to 1997 levels. A clear demonstration that banning things does not work, similarly, banning knives will not stop people stabbing each other, we should be concentrating on dealing with violent people. Perhaps Watchdog journalists could better justify their salaries by producing reports that offer a more balanced view and not pander to Tabloid journalism.
The most alarming thing about ths report is that they have now provided some not very bright individuals with information that plastic knives can go undetected through scanners, will we see more plastic knives on the streets now?
Shame on you Watchdog.
How many plastic kniv
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Just looked on ebay,new listings of knives put on today.It only takes ebay to press the button to take the knives off.If ebay say it will take them a few weeks then thats a few more people killed in knife crime,Ebay should be held accountable for this.
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I am an ebay seller and just last week I had a listing bounced by ebay.My item was Salvia hot lips.Given the award for garden merit by the rhs.Ebay took it off and stated it was a banned drug and gave me a breach of policy.I battled with them and won,but it proves that ebay do not do research and do not know what is right from wrong.Tonight I have reported 30 items of knives that should not be on ebay.I shall continue reporting these items until ebay take them off.
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Following Watchdogs work I carried out my own investigation. With the governments drive against childhood obesity in mind, I searched Ebay for SPOONS !! Guess what…You won’t believe it, Thousands of spoons are available on Ebay! They even have plastic “stealth” spoons (are they legal in the UK?). Ebay should remove them immediately and bad all spoon auctions NOW. Please think of the children………
The above ^^^ sounds ridiculous doesn’t it? Blaming a tool or object for a major problem in our society? But that is exactly what has happened here.
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I am disgusted to find these types of knives openly for sale on e-bay. No wonder there are so many knives on the streets if this is how easy they can be obtained.
I do not understand why they cannot just be taken off the site immeadiatly. Why should it take so long ? They need to fix this asap, before the 'Knife' seekers out there take opportunity of this. I use e-bay quite often, But will now refuse until this has been resolved.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
LGW741 wrote:
"Following on from the information provided in the program it occurs to me that, potentially, the biggest problem of the 'plastic' based assault knives is that they would not be detected by conventional metal detector arches or x-ray machines."
Nonsense. Plastic is not "invisible" under x-ray. My wife used to work security at Heathrow, and not only would non-metalic blades show up, anything shaped like a blade would be manually checked, non-metalic or otherwise.
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Congratulation Watchdog! You've forced ebay into an action which will restrict the law abiding pocket knife users, collectors and sellers, while haveing zero effect on knife crime.
Most knife crime involves ordinary kitchen knives which are available in every home. When will we start to deal with the people who use violence, instead of being fixated on the tools they use.
Placeing further restrictions on anything only ever effects the law abiding. The criminals as always, ignore the rules and carry on as before.
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[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for you comment. The police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons, falling under the definition of stealth knives, disguised knives, flick knives or gravity knives. Offensive weapons are illegal to sell or import in the UK.]
you guys really need to check your legal facts, as do your "police experts".
There are a list of offensive weapons that are illegal to sell and import, but a pencil or an umbrella can be an offensive weapon if used as such. At least some of the knives you have shown have been openly on sale in the UK for years. They do not come under the list of banned items.
you've got it wrong, probably quite deliberately, for the sake of drama and sensationalism.
your report was misleading at best
n response to lynseymay30 (comment 62); the vast majority of knives used in crimes involving knives, the knives in question were kitchen utility knives. So where does that put your argument?
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How do I stand with this issue while in traditional dress in Scotland, carrying a Sgian Dubh?
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Why do comments go from "awaiting moderation" to "referred to the moderators"?And,dare i ask,is it a moderator that does this?lol
Anyway,48 hours to moderate a comment,well,some comments,what a joke.
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"It is a hard heart that kills "
Gunnery Sergeant Hartman - Full Metal Jacket.
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Watchdog re check the legislation regarding knife laws in the uk. Yes all of the knives shown were classed as offensive weapons but not all are illegal, (offensive in this context meaning the opposite of defensive), a cricket bat can be regarded as an offensive weapon if carried without a valid reason. I'd like to see you try and get ebay to stop selling sports equipment for this reason. Silly watchdog which criminal would spend time and effort on finding a decent knife with the intent of using it offensively, when they would then have to throw it away. Unless kitchen knives are made illegal you wont have changed a thing. All you have done is made a lot of decent law abiding people annoyed.
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. The exact legal definitions detailing which types of knives are classed as offensive weapons are complex and hence open to interpretation. However, the police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons]
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A note to all the ebay bashers on this discussion, the knives sold were not illegal chech government legislation and make sure you understand the definition of an offensive (being the opposite of defensive) weapon. Some of them got through customs because they were allowed through, because guess what? they were legal! Do you actually think knife crime will go down because of this? only future statistics will show the truth. its amazing how many people will jump itno an arguement without researching the topic at hand.
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. The exact legal definitions detailing which types of knives are classed as offensive weapons are complex and hence open to interpretation. However, the police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons]
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I usually like Watchdog and believe they generally fight for consumer rights but I feel that this was a poorly researched piece of journalism. whether a knife is legal or not is a reasonably complicated legal issue for a lay person to understand, however for the BBC who have an extensive legal department it should not have presented too much of a problem. A read through S1 (1)(a)-(b) of The Offensive Weapons Act 1959 and S139 Criminal Justice Act 1988, along with the ammendment orders 2002 and 2004 would clearly show what the legal position is. Yes the knife disguised as a pen and the stealth knife are illegal (so fair point there), but the assisted opening / lock knives are not(they do not satisfy the criteria for flick or gravity knives). Therefore half the knives featured on the program were perfectly legal to sell and buy in the UK. The choice of "expert" was a poor one. A Police Sargeant is there to enforce the law based on simplified Police procedure, however Police officers often do not know the complexities of the Law itself.(Thats why you go to court for a Judge to decide) Why did Watchdog not ask a CPS lawyer? Or a senior expert from HMRC who has to make detailed judgements on the legality of knives every day?
A so called stealth knife will pass undetected under a "ferrous" wand such as those used at night clubs, however they would be easily detected by the security measures at an airport (x-ray) why didnt Watchdog reassure members of the public about this point? instead of unnecessarily worrying millions of airport users? I should point out that ebay has a strict policy for not selling knives to those under 18 so the person worried about their 14 year old viewing knives on the site shouldn't be.(unless a irresponsible parent is allowing them to use their credit card?).
The saddest thing about this is ebays reaction. Now the millions of responsible adults who use ebay to purchase perfectly legal knives such as:
Movie memorabilia collectors
militeria collectors. general knife collectors.
sailors
divers
backpackers
martial artists
rock climbers
mountaineers
fishermen
campers
canoeists
hunters
bushcrafters
gardeners
etc etc.
will no longer be able to purchase knives to use for their sports and hobbies. And Watchdog is supposed to be there to protect the consumer?....
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madaboutflowers wrote;
"Tonight I have reported 30 items of knives that should not be on ebay.I shall continue reporting these items until ebay take them off."
Before jumping on the bandwagon, please be sure that you have done your research in to what constitutes an illegal knife and give some very careful thought towards your motives and be sure that you have removed the emotional reaction and that you are just approaching this from a rational perspective.
Knives are probably the most essential tool we have as a civilisation and if we are not careful, the only thing they will be selling on the shelves of Tesco in the years to come will be baby food.
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your moderation team are a bit slow.
[Note from Watchdog: We are sorry for the delay but all our comments need careful consideration before they can be published. Thank you for your patience.]
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“While stress arousal is a fitting mode to meet an emergency, as an ongoing state it is a disaster. Sustained stress arousal leads to pathology”
Daniel Goleman; “Vital Lies, Simple Truths”
The vast majority of the public live in a constant state of terror, a state of terror that is somewhat self sustained and somewhat sustained by the Media and Politicians. This state of terror cannot be maintained without a damaging effect to the psyche so it is deposited in a place in the mind just below the parapet of conscious awareness. There are a number of unfortunate effects that this creates;
Firstly; it narrows our focus and perceptions and creates a very narrow view of things that cannot cope with any form of complexity, so in essence, because the mind cannot cope with it, it conceals the existence of complexity from our awareness.
“If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite.
For man has closed himself up, till he sees all things thro' narrow chinks of his cavern.”
William Blake
Secondly; it shuts down or reduces the effectiveness of all physical processes unessential to dealing with threat to ready us for a response to the state of terror that we are generally unaware of. Some of these functions include “higher thinking” and the immune system, the body’s ability to heal itself.
Taking the above in to consideration, is it no wonder that;
A. People are so quick to latch on to knives as something rational to explain their terror?
B. That, through their limited perspectives, they are unable to make the connection between the knives that they are terrified of and the knives that they use daily in their kitchens to prepare their meals and their children’s packed lunches?
“From the need to soften the impact of threatening information, lacunas arise. They operate on attention, through a variety of tactics, all of which filter and censor the flow of information. These strategies for dealing with the world come to define the shape of the responses as well as perception”
Daniel Goleman; “Vital Lies, Simple Truths”
These blind spots, or “lacunas” as Daniel Goleman calls them, are the reason why some people seem to be unable to grasp the bigger picture and understand how important knives are to our modern way of lives, and how instrumental this tool was in bring us to where we are now as a society. It explains the stupidity and ignorance of some people’s comments on here. That they are thinking through a thick cloudy syrup of terror is the only explanation for the absurdity of their perspectives.
It surely is time we stopped blaming a tool for the problem of violence in our society and started focusing on what is actually turning some of our youth in to feral teenagers.
Knives are innocent!
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Highlander_too:
"Why do comments go from "awaiting moderation" to "referred to the moderators"?And,dare i ask,is it a moderator that does this?lol
Anyway,48 hours to moderate a comment,well,some comments,what a joke."
Perhaps 'Watchdog' have been surprised by the amount of negative opinion their scare-mongering has resulted in?
Wonder if this comment will get through!
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Actually, having read the article and comments, I think you're being rather disingenouous here. Ebay isn't a seller; it is a service which puts sellers in charge with buyers and any censorship of items offered by Ebay is a mere courtesy, no more.
However, should you wish to roll out your favourite moral panic bandwagon again, might I suggest an Ebay search for "Brocock cartridges"?
These are banned under the Firearms Act; transferring ownership in any way is highly illegal and could cost you up to 10 years in prison. And yet, that search term will bring some results off ebay most days; should be good for an easy fifteen minutes "think of the children" moral outrage...
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madaboutflowers:
"I am an ebay seller and just last week I had a listing bounced by ebay.My item was Salvia hot lips.Given the award for garden merit by the rhs.Ebay took it off and stated it was a banned drug and gave me a breach of policy.I battled with them and won,but it proves that ebay do not do research and do not know what is right from wrong."
Clearly, since psychoactive salvia divinorum is legal in both the UK and the US.
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[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. The exact legal definitions detailing which types of knives are classed as offensive weapons are complex and hence open to interpretation. However, the police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons]
Did the police experts also inform you that any object will qualify as an offensive weapon if used as such?
This is sensationalism at it's worst. Shame on you Watchdog.
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Note to Watchdog: The police don't get to decide what is and is not illegal only a Court can do that!! Their opinion that they do not like the knives you bought does not make them illegal and the definitions are not so vague that you cannot tell that the ones you called flick knives do not infact fall into the definition of a flick knife "which has a blade which opens automatically
by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other
device in or attached to the handle of the knife" or a gravity knife "which has a blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the application of centrifugal force and which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device" these definitons are from Offensive Weapons Act 1959-1961 and seem pretty clear. The "flick-knives" you showed would not fall into the first category unless they are spring loaded and opened purely by pressing a button on the handle or will open purely by the use of gravity or centrifugal force and if they are like the many knives of that kind I have seen you can wave them about as much as you like and they will not open unless you manually start opening the blade but the same can be said of a swiss army knife which would be perfectly legal and infact exempt from the law unless being weilded in a way that makes it an offensive weapon. Also let us not forget that as long as there is a lawful reason why you are carrying a knife then pretty much anything goes except stealth (non metalic with the exception of ceramic cooking knives), push daggers, balisongs (butterfly knives) or concealed knives which are specifically prohibited.
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Ebay still has many many knives...
This site
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
even has the banner headline..
Newsflash - ebay have introduced a ban on the sale of knives - buy whilst you still can!
I have reported dozens of similar items to ebay in the last 48 hours, so far they're all still there, maybe you should rattle ebay's cage again
[Note from Watchdog: Richard Ambrose of eBay stated in his interview it would be "a matter of weeks" before knives would be removed]
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
madaboutflowers wrote;
"Tonight I have reported 30 items of knives that should not be on ebay.I shall continue reporting these items until ebay take them off."
Before taking action like this you will need to be 100% sure the items you are reporting are actually contravening eBay listing policy as it stands.
I personally would take legal action against anyone targeting my items if they were in fact legal and allowable - I would treat this as a malicious act and an attempt to disturb a legitimate business, nothing more than cyber-vandalism.
I suggest you aquaint yourself with the Computer Misuse act 1990 before taking any further action as you may find the wheels fall off of your bandwagon all of a sudden.
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Sorry to post again but a thought has just occured to me (and no, it isn't lonely)
OK, lets do the maths - and I am rubbish at maths so please do set me straight if I get it wrong.
- approx 22 million households in the UK
- Take a very low guess at an average 6 knives in each household.
- Total 132 million knives 'out there'
- Average 240 'bladed article' deaths per year
- Total knives used 0.0002%
Would anyone really support a ban of an item of which 0.0002% of owners use the item to kill?
Lets put this into perspective - if only 0.0002% of cars in the UK were involved in deaths on the road (excluding accidents but including death by dangerous driving / drink driving / reckless etc, etc) then there would only be 64 deaths per year. (using 2003 figure of 32001477 cars registered in the UK)
So - should we ban cars as they are responsible for thousands more deaths?
If not, why not?
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Hi
Very sorry but your article is childish nonsense. It is simply an attempt to discredit ebay, an "international" site. I can ring using the phone and order anything I like form the US. Is that BT's fault? It is the job, the sole job, of our customs to stop any thing coming through that is illegal in this country. I would be more interested in why, in Gods name, did customs not discover you were importing illegal weapons! It is their job to do it. Presumably, if you had ordered C4 explosive from Iran and 4 out of 5 got in, that would be Irans fault? This article simply demonstrates just how easy it is to sneak things through the postal customs and just how terribly poor our border security is? And you have shown all the idiots just how easy it is. How disturbing that customs read the declaration and believe it? How terrible is it that every package isn't Xrayed?
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Secondly, I have a selection of Knives 3 feet away. One has a forged blade which will cut through flesh like butter. I think they came from the Coop and were £2.50! I use them on steak and mushrooms. But I don't take it to the pub! But i
I could if I wanted to because the police never stop and search? That is considered an infringement of my personal liberty to go out and cut up people. Which would be far more important to most of the people here.
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reply to simonattwood,yes I have reported a lot of knives and I shall continue to do so.I think a double bladed jagged edged knife is suitable to report.switchblades.knives concealed in pens.shall I go on.I am not reported what are genuinly for huntsmen and fishing etc.And yes killers will use any thing they can get their hands on,but why make it easy for them by selling them on ebay.I did report one item today,it was a plant used for drug use,ebay took it off within ten mins,so they have no excuse to take all the illegal knives off asap.
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Reply to nickcooper625. Sorry to burst your bubble but salvia divinorum is banned in quite a lot of US states.
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madaboutflowers:
"Reply to nickcooper625. Sorry to burst your bubble but salvia divinorum is banned in quite a lot of US states."
Only in 14 out of 50; in many more attempts to outlaw it have failed.
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madaboutflowers wrote:
"reply to simonattwood,yes I have reported a lot of knives and I shall continue to do so.I think a double bladed jagged edged knife is suitable to report."
Please be aware that 'a double bladed jagged edged knife' does not contravene current UK legislation or eBay listing policy - you are maliciously reporting items based on your own prejudice rather than current rules and regulations relating to the sale of these items.
Please refer to post # 116 and take some time to aquaint yourself with the facts.
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[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for you comment. The police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons, falling under the definition of stealth knives, disguised knives, flick knives or gravity knives. Offensive weapons are illegal to sell or import in the UK.]
In light of this, did your police experts arrest the people responsible for the crime of importing an offensive weapon i.e. The Watchdog employee who imported these knives. If not, why not?
Working at the BBC does not attract Crown Immunity, nor is 'journalism' a valid defence in court.
Hopefully you will passing the details of this criminal to the police.
[Note from Watchdog: The decision to buy knives from eBay was carefully considered. It was decided it was in the public interest to expose eBay if they were facilitating the sale of illegal weapons. The only way to find out for sure was to purchase the knives which were then handed to police. Best regards, Watchdog web team]
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Note to craggyside.If you are a reputable seller of hunting knives etc you have nothing to worry about,but as I meantioned before,double bladed knives,knives concealed in pens etc etc etc are not used for hunting.And take me to court or not I shall still report what I believe is a deadly weapon and has no intention of using it for hunting fishing etc.I AM NOT against hunters and fishermen or trademen who have to use these products in their work or hobby I am against the people selling what is clearly a bully boys or girls weapon.Look at ebay for yourself,double bladed knives.
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#125 - Why would a reputable dealer have nothing to worry about? Hunderreds of reputable dealers hahve just had a major portion of the market place closed off to them because we have a media unconcerned with the facts if it gets in the way of a good story.
Again, you have every right to your opinion and I fully support that but double edged blades are not illegal in the UK and interfereing with a legitimate business is not the way to express your concerns just as breaking the law is not an acceptable way of expressing anger or frustration.
At the risk of labouring the point - the vast majority of violent assults involving bladed items are committed by criminals with everyday domestic kitchen knives - the very type of knife ebay propose to allow to be sold! What possible effect on 'knife crime' can this action have other than to ensure we all continue to totally miss the point and fail to address the real issues.
Watchdog are guilty of ensuring these real issues remain off the agenda all for the sake of a good story created from half truths, total mis-truths and theatrics.
[Note from Watchdog: eBay have said they will ban all knives, apart from cutlery, on both its UK and Ireland websites. Best regards, web team]
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This will make you laugh!
I am an action figure seller on ebay, roughly 6 months ago i tried to sell a dr who figure of captain jack who was accompanied in his pack by a plastic replica gun which is about 5cm small, no trigger, no bullets, no barrel just a small plastic thing that has no threat to anyone or anything, as people collecting these figures will know, your more likley to lose it than use it, i was then told by ebay that my listing was going to be watched as any listing of firearms or weapons is prohibited.
Well i listed the item anyway as the plastic toy gun is just well plastic and to my amazement 1 day later my listing was cancelled due to me listing the item under the offensive weapons act, Ha!
It makes me laugh how they can ban my plastic toy but still i can find combat kifes, flick knifes, stealth knifes and rambo style weapons to purchase for a measley £3.00 upwards that will harm and mame people in ways i would not like to mention and the fact you can purchase such scary weapons by the click of a button is pathetic and terrifying to say the least.
EBAY NEEDS TO SORT THIS PROBLEM OUT BUT TO BE HONEST I THINK ITS TOO LATE!
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madaboutflowers,as has been advised a couple of times,you really should acquaint yourself with one or two laws before charging about with your prejudices.Just because YOU don't think a knife is suitable for hunting or fishing DOES NOT make it illegal.Have you read any of this?There was NO illegal knives found on Ebay UK during the Watchdog enquiry,none.
So,if you are reporting people in the UK selling knives on Ebay UK,you are reporting perfectly legal people going about their business.
If,on the other had,it is overseas based sellers of knives illegal in the UK,you may want to check that countries,or US state laws,you will probably find they are all perfectly within their laws too.
Should people not breaking any laws be harrassed by people like yourself?No,people like yourself are breaking the law if what you are claiming i true.
Is any of this sinking in?
[Note from Watchdog: Thank you for your comment. The police experts that we consulted considered that all five of the knives we obtained would qualify as offensive weapons. Best regards, web team]
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Watchdog clearly has no understanding of the issue it is trying to address. Getting ebay to stop selling knives on its UK and Irish websites is a total waste of time when they have global sites. Most buyers will go directly to the US ebay site, and purchase them for delivery to the UK. It was embarrassing to see them claiming a victory in the last episode!!
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I have been on Ebay for over 5 years now and found out that what Richard Ambrose says and what Richard Ambrose does are two entirely different things !!.
Sadly all Ebay are interested in are getting fees off sellers and will not hold my breath to see if Ebay does put a blanket ban on knives. I have been told by Ebay they do NOT police their own site and rely on members to report any illegal listings, Ebay SHOULD be policing their own site as I myself in the past have reported illegal listings nothing is ever done.
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ebay item, sellers Location ELY UK and just incase ebay remove it when they read this, the title
collectable flick knife (not for kids)
Seller: [Personal details removed]
Feedback: 97.5 % Positive
Member: since 01-Oct-06 in United Kingdom
collectable flick knife
blade is 3 1/2 inches long stainless steal
handle is 5 inches long brass handle and wood very colourful slight damage on 1 side nothing to worry bout nice item
and cammoflage carry case
(not for kids)
for collecters or fishing tackle ect
happy bidding
more info please email
-----------------------
Item
Location Swansea UK
RENNO POCKET FLICK KNIFE
Seller: [personal details removed]
Feedback: 100 % Positive
Member: since 29-Aug-07 in United Kingdom
SMALL RENNO FLICK KNIFE
IN CASE
HANDY POCKET KNIFE
OR
FISHING KNIFE
--------------------------
Oh they are fishing knives, of course you couldn't mame or kill with them!
Ebay are so full of it.. they have done NOTHING as usual if they did, they would lose money in final value fees. Also they refused to send a rep into Watchdog last time with the fakes, or when Watchdog investigated PayPal, all they got was arrogance. ebay are and remain arrogant and only sent in a rep on this because it would have been bad PR for them not too.. Time the Government stepped in!
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regarding post 99
Dear Moderators, you've now had 5 days of the above post having been referred to you.
I was just wondering how you were getting on with it?
[Note from Watchdog web team: Thank you for your comment.
We have had a high volume of responses for this blog. Our aim is to publish comments as quickly as possible but due to the sensitive nature of this blog comments are taking longer to moderate. Best regards, web team]
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from post no. 126
[Note from Watchdog: eBay have said they will ban all knives, apart from cutlery, on both its UK and Ireland websites. Best regards, web team]
All knives are cutlery!
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seems to me ebay do not want to remove these knives I have just done a basic search and found over 18000 results look in sports and hunting section there are some horrific knives. not sure what some of these are for especially ones with the grim reeper on and chinese style throwing knives. makes me feel ill as a parent with young children.
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Hi, After last weeks show,I have just bought a 15" BOWIE knife and 4" flick blade off EBAY at £2.21. They have not barred any knives AT ALL!!
Can return to you for evidence.
KInd Regards.
Jonh.
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Now that you have (eventually) discovered there are dangerous weapons made of materials other than metal (and plastic is not the only one) will you consider exploring much bigger issues?
What I am referring to are the ludicrous security checks - particularly at airports, which waste time and cost millions, so that nail files can be removed from women's handbags, and dangerous weapons are not detected.
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You said tonight that Ebay was banning knives to the UK on Ebay.co.uk, what's to stop people just logging on via Ebay.com, .com is the US Ebay site.
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I have gone onto Ebay this evening after the show out of interest and have found the following itmes listed TODAY:
8" Gurkha knife
pocket knifes
bayonet knife
20inch spider knife
7.5cm lock knife (one hand release)
21.5inch falcon knife
8" lock knife
15" hunting knife
Shall I go on? Ebay have said it will take a few weeks to remove these, but why are they allowing people to list and sell these items today?
I don't think they are as commited to the cause as much as they would have us think...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Another point or two I think worth raising. On the show you mentioned that the knives concerned were priced between £3 and £9. It is very common on eBay to start selling an item very cheaply (in order to encourage people to bid) For example you might start selling a car for £1 and it will eventually sell for many thousands. Please could you tell me what the actual finishing price for each of these knives was ? The reason I ask is that the usual price for one of the stilleto shaped lock knives that uses a modification of the ricasso to open it one handed (perfectly legal in UK) would be £154 in the UK. This either means that Watchdog secured a monumental bargain or that this knife was a cheap copy. I believe you have had a previous programme about fake goods on eBay. This also applies to custom knives where famous makers designs are illegaly copied. (This might be a worthy subject for investigation!) You also mentioned that the packaging on one of the knives you imported was labelled "gift" this is a common ploy used by importers of all types of goods to avoid the customer paying duty on their import, and nothing to do with the fact the package contained a knife. (I am sure your research team will account to HMRC for any duty you might have inadvertently avoided!) It would seem that you may have been implying that the knives you mentioned were very cheap to obtain but we dont know the final selling price? You also don't mention the extortionate price of postage from the USA (Usually between £9 to £25) I guess the point Im making is that considering the price, it is even less likely they are to be used by the opportunistic criminal when very cheaply available kitchen knives can be had from the local supermarket.
[Note from Watchdog: All the knives bought were purchased at 'Buy it now' prices and therefore did not rise in price. Best regards, web team]
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Watchdog.
Please can you clarify why the police felt that all of those knives were offensive weapons since at least 2 or three of them would not fall into that class unless being carried without due cause. The law is clear that most types of knives, exept those specifically designated as an offensive weapon such as the concealed pen knife or the stealth knife, can be carried with a lawful reason e.g. work etc...
You also seem to be very selective in responding to the comments here such as the one regards the price of the knives and the postage where you still neglected to give the poster an idea how much the postage cost. There are plenty of items on ebay from china that are buy it now for £1 but have over £90 postage so are you deliberately trying to mislead people.
Another comment that you have ignored is that most of the crimes are commited with common household knives not ones such as you have shown.
I am a collector of knives and swords and have spent hundreds of pounds on individual blades do you really think that this kind of knife is what I would use to attack someone when as pointed out above a £3 knife bought from Tescos or Asda will do the job just as well?
Please actually answer this post rather than ignore the points made.
[Note from Watchdog: Several police officers that we showed our selection of knives to classed the knives as offensive weapons, including the sergeant featured in the film.
The plastic knife is a 'stealth knife'.
The knife in a pen is a 'disguised knife'
The three other knives are either 'flick knives' or 'gravity knives'.
All of these are classed as offensive weapons, and we trust the police to be the authority on this matter. Most knife crime is carried out using a knife that has a legitimate use, such as a kitchen knife, however the police told us that they are keen fight knife crime on all fronts and were particularly concerned about the ability for these cheap and available knives to be easily carried and concealed.
These knives are classed as offensive weapons and have little legitimate justification. It was of great concern to us to see weapons that are classed as offensive and which are therefore illegal, being so easy to buy. Watchdog was only concerned with the sale of illegal knives through the ebay.co.uk site, rather than genuine collectables.
Postage for the knives purchased was never more than a few pounds. Best regards, web team]
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Highlander wrote,Should people not breaking any laws be harrassed by people like yourself?No,people like yourself are breaking the law if what you are claiming i true.
Is any of this sinking in? If I am breaking any law I'd rather it be for reporting the knives than for selling them.Sorry that you feel harrassed by my comments,but I think most peoples opinion is to get the knives off ebay.breaking the law because I would like to live in a safer place.Dont think so.
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[Note from Watchdog: The decision to buy knives from eBay was carefully considered. It was decided it was in the public interest to expose eBay if they were facilitating the sale of illegal weapons. The only way to find out for sure was to purchase the knives which were then handed to police. Best regards, Watchdog web team]
Your editorial team's opinion of what constitutes 'public interest' does not grant immunity from the law.
If you suspected that a crime was being committed, the correct response is to alert the proper authorities, not to commit a crime yourself.
If I were to suspect that drugs were being sold in my street I would not be immune from prosecution if I were to by some 'just to check'. I would be rightly charged with possession.
Presumably, the legal ramifications were explained to your researchers before you allowed them to break the law? Or did you fail in your duty of care to them and let them believe they could not be prosecuted?
Who, exactly took the decision to break the law in this way?
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