Economy 7 meters in a muddle
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We all know the difference between night and day but it seems some people who deal with the readings of a certain type of electricity meter are getting confused. The meter is an Economy 7 meter. Over 6 million homes in the UK have one. They all display two different rates, one for the electricity that you use during the day and a cheaper one for the night. However, if these meters are read the wrong way round you could end up being overcharged by hundreds of pounds.
Most energy companies offer Economy 7 and they're supposed to save you money, provided that you use most of your electricity during the night. Pene Macadam is on an Economy 7 tariff, and to make the most of the cheap night-time rates, she gets up at 5am to do her chores.
In 2006 Pene switched her supplier to British Gas and her bills suddenly shot up. The tariff that used to save her money was suddenly costing more. Pene quickly realised what had gone wrong, British Gas had mixed up the day and night readings, so it looked as if she was using all her power during the day. This meant that it was charging her the more expensive rate at night. Pene thought that as she had spotted the mistake it would be easy to put right. However, Pene told us: "It all started in 2006, and went on for two and a half years. It was so simple, because you could see exactly what was going on."
The readings were muddled up
Eventually, after going to British Gas's parent company Centrica she got both companies to agree that the readings had been muddled up and her bills were corrected. Pene was offered a goodwill gesture of £2.
Customers aren't the only ones who have spoken to us about this. A meter reader contacted us because he's concerned that his colleagues are mixing their figures up and their mistakes are affecting quite a few of you, whoever you get your electricity from.
Last year Watchdog helped get this exact problem sorted out for Bernard Jones. Bernard appeared on Watchdog last May after Npower had confused the night and day readings on his Economy 7 meter. He too was being charged too much. In fact his bills went up so high that he refused to pay them and he was threatened with a debt collection agency. After Watchdog contacted Npower on his behalf, the bills were corrected. Bernard did not expect the problem to happen again.
But in October an extraordinary bill turned up for over for £12,000. Bernard said: "At first you say £1,200, that's pretty heavy, but when I read it again I say wait a minute, am I mad or something, it's £12,000."
Still nervous
The family again suspected that the day and night readings had again been muddled up and were the reason behind the huge bill. Npower soon realised it had repeated its mistake, and sent out an amended bill for just under £200. Bernard is still nervous about getting his bills from Npower in case they make another mistake. So, the family will be phoning in their own meter readings in future.
British Gas told Watchdog: "The problem with Ms Macadam's account was resolved in June 2008. Ms Macadam's meter was working properly and our meter readers took accurate readings, but due to a computer error the two figures were mixed up while being processed through into our own billing system. When Ms Macadam contacted us to provide her own readings we were able to correct the data on our billing system and to send Ms Macadam an amended bill. Clearly, we are very sorry for the inconvenience and frustration this has caused. It was our mistake not to have corrected the error at an earlier stage. We read Ms Macadam's meter in August and November 2008 and all readings were fed into our system correctly and there have been no further problems."
Npower comments: "We do not believe there is a significant problem with dual rate meters as a whole but for anyone affected, it can be very frustrating. We would like to apologise to the Jones family for the mix up in their meter readings."
Clerical error
Watchdog also spoke to Consumer Focus who says: "Unfortunately this type of scenario is not uncommon - it's basically a clerical error on the part of the supplier. The real problem arises when this type of mix-up goes unnoticed for a long period of time and the consumer gets landed with a large 'catch-up' bill.
"If consumers with dual-rate electricity meters suspect that there is something wrong with their account they should get in touch with their supplier as soon as possible and supply a meter reading. The supplier will then be able to carry out an investigation and ensure that the consumer's usage is being billed on the correct rates."
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This happened to me on the same type of economy 7 meter, I had a bill for £2275 for a 3 month period, still not sorted it has been going on for about 1 year now it took ages for npower to see what the problem was even though I told them they had the readings mixed up. [Personal details removed by Moderator]
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My Eco 7 meter has been 4 hours out of sync with GMT for 3 years - ever since it was installed. I have tried to get it changed, but no avail.
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I saw with interest your section on incorrect meter readings on Economy 7 meters. I received my first electricity bill five days ago (we moved into our house in September 2008). It was a whopping £567 (we live in a small two bedroom cottage and we are out all day)! Having monitored my meter over the last few days i have realised that what the electricity company thinks is the day reading is actually the night reading and vice versa. I have spoken to Swalec who have assured me they will contact me to arrange for an engineer to check the meter. Should this have happened in the Summer i would probably not have noticed.
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I have seen tonights episode and am particularly interested in the economy 7 story. The lady that overpaid British Gas for 2 1/2 year only got £2 for phone costs. What about the money that Bgas owe her for overcharging her? Did she get her money back? I hope so but if she did not then she should get on the phone to them and get it back. They should regress the E7 readings back to when they started billing incorrectly and rebill all historical bills. this would create a credit balance which she could then have refunded to her bank account. It would be intereting to know if Bgas have done this already but, Invery much doubt it.
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I have an ongoing issue with Scottish Power too. Renting in a 2 bed cottage, and only having electric, the Economy 7 was in place prior to us moving in 2006. That winter we switched to Scottish Power. Our payments now reach £134 a month and this is set to go up. We have storage heating so this is done in the night. We calculated the readings were the wrong way around. When you try to input the readings online, they refuse to go in unless they are the 'wrong way around'. Scottish Power won't install a new meter. I've called them out three times and only once did they turn up (gave me £20 for the inconvenience). So frustrated with explaining to them that it is wrong and them repeatedly telling me it's right. I've actually sat and watched the meter and I know that at ten past midnight it switches over. Very angry, very upset and can't afford to keep warm!!
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I would just like to say if you are worried about being billed incorrectly on an economy 7 meter or any 2 rate meter, then take a 2 hour test in the same time slot (eg. day time). This means take a meter reading and then in 2 hours take another one. Whichever has moved then that is the correct day rate. Match this to your latest bill or call your energy supplier. Make sure you keep a log of the times and your energy supplier should be more than happy to check they are billing you the correct way. Plus you have proof which read has moved in which time slot.
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Our Economy 7 meter has had the charging bands changed without notification to us. This cannot be right; surely it is the same as increasing prices and not informing the customer?
Currently EDF energy are coming to check out the meter, but investigation on our behalf has shown the charging periods are not what we were informed they would be. We therefore have a bill considerably more than expected and do not know how long this has been going on for. How are we supposed to find out when this happened?
Regards
[Personal details removed by Moderator]
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approx 3 years ago I called n power to cancel economy 7, I was told I still need to pay the £700 up to date as noone on their end has arranged to cancel, I just want it changed and sorted I have wrote in complaints, no luck .....still waiting
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We have had this problem with British Gas on three occasions over 18 months.
Twice the Customer Service Advisors corrected our bills, but on the last bill our readings have been 'Twisted' by 10 different advisors after as many phone calls, this is there name for the error. Our bill is still not corrected and we are awaiting a 14 day reply by their Customer Client Case Officer.After a written complaint to the CEO of British Gas. The meter reader has on two occasions taken the readings incorrectly on our new meter of 18 months and we had correct meter readers take readings ok but British Gas took it upon themselves to decide that the readings were incorrect and twisted them giving us a large Debit on our bill. We have also sent them digital photos on email to them in an attempt to prove the correct readings, nobody at British Gas seems to have any idea what they are doing! and we have been told that the Back office is in India , trying to sort out a new bill. Here's hoping we will get some success.
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How interesting to hear that my problem wasn't a 'one-off'. I have had problems with British Gas since Jan 07 when a new electricity meter was installed. It was several months before I realised that the readings I was taking didn't relate to those estimated by British Gas. On contacting them it was realised that they had no details of the new meter. It took a year to rectify this. Then the readings were incorrect because our meter gives a 5 digit reading and British Gas took this as a 4 digit reading. All this time I was giving the correct readings to a member of British Gas telling them which reading related to Rate ! and which to Rate 2. I mistakenly thought that they would know which was day and which was night. We currently are said to owe over £2000.00 but we are an all electric household and inspite of previous problems I think this is a bit steep, we are paying £329 per month! When our last bill arrived a few weeks ago with estimated readings, I called British Gas to give the correct readings and used the automated response, which is when I realised that the day and night rate seem to be switched. I spoke to someone from British Gas who agreed and am still waiting for a correct invoice, needless to say the next one I received still had the old readings!
I have learnt that I need to check absolutely every detail, and to record every conversation held with them.
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I would also like to add when disputing readings with your energy supplier, not all meters state low and normal or day and night. Some are R1 (rate 1)and R2(rate 2)and these dont always mean R1 day and R2 night. Always write down everything on the meter cycle when calling your supplier it has been know to bill on a reading and the total. Thus causing very high bills. Also even if you are being billed on the day rate and night and its working in your favour it is still best to get it sorted then end up with a huge bill later once it is realised.
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I used to work as a meter reader so am qualified to read most meters. A meter reader got the first digit wrong on my elec. meter, which means a mistake of 10.000 units upssedaisy.
I was told when I was trained, never to get the first 2 digits wrong on an elec. meter, check and then check again, It took me years to get it put right.
When you put the reading into the the handheld unit it is programmed so that if the reading is unusual it will aks you to re check and confirm serial no. and reading again, when send in, it gives the company a warning to check this.
I notified them many times but mostly in vain.
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I too had this problem. Suddenly I had a huge bill and they changed my direct debit from £55 a month to over £100! I couldn't understand as my usage hadn't changed and fuel charges hadn't increased that much. I phoned NPower about 6 times over a couple of months explaining that something was wrong. I live in a one bedroom flat and it was far too high. They didn't look at my past bills and eventually I got them all out, did a spreadsheet like the lady in the film and noticed that the last time the engineer took the reading the rates were swapped. It annoyed me that I had to discover it. And then it took ages to prove to them - I had to phone in the morning and evening with readings. Eventually I got over £300 credited. Only problem now is that my estimates are still based on usage when the rates were the wrong way round so I have to phone in each month. I don't understand how they calculate estimates. I think a finger in the air would be more accurate!
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i to have an on going problem with n power which as been going on for over a year now tried to say i had two meters in my house got that sorted then they said i was paying for 2 other customers on my street got their details and gave them to npower they sorted that and are now trying to get my account up to date which as now been over six months ive not had an up to date bill in over 12 months the last bill said they owed me quiet a bit of money but they dont want to part with it im not letting this go until it is fully finalised then im changing companies
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I have decided to check my bills, after seeing Watchdog yesterday, and wondered if anybody knows what a 'secondary unit' is? This is listed on my bill under 'Reading and Charges'. I am on an Economy 10 meter.
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2 months ago my grandma recieved a letter from British Gas telling her she owed £300 and my grandad recieved a letter saying he owed £700. This made alarm bells ring as my grandad had been dead for 18 months when this letter arrived, which really upset my grandma. British Gas were adiment that both my grandparents owed the amounts stated and needed payment promptly. My grandma is 77 years old and just doesn't have that sort of money and we knew she didn't owe this money as the only debt they ever had was their mortage. After 2 months of banging our head against a brickwall British Gas have admitted that THEIR meter readings were wrong as the person had put the day reading down as a night reading and visa versa.
If you have the proof that you don't owe the money stick to your guns and don't pay BG a penny. It now turns out that my grandma is £800 in credit!!
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I have been on Economy 7 for 30 years. A new digital meter was installed 6 years ago.
In Novemember last year I received a bill for over £800. This was because British Gas had reversed the readings and 'backdated' the 'arrears' to the installation of the new meter. I have, of course checked my meter to satisfy myself which reading is which. To date, I have now spoken to 5 British Gas employees (yesterday I spoke to the Complaints Department) and they have still failed to perform the simple operation of reinstating the correct readings. They continue to send me incorrect bills and the latest one now says that I owe over £1000 and they want this paid by February. I might add that I am on a direct debit agreement with them!
Each British Gas employee I have spoken to seems aware of the 'problem' but seem unable, or unwilling, to rectify the error!
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Despite all the horror stories about the big companies, I feel I must sing the praises of Southern Electric. Last year I had to move house due to my husbands sudden disablement & found that a large electric bill (£550) was owed, due to running convector heaters during the day while on economy 7 at night. Because we were both by this time on benefits as I had given up work to look after my husband, Southern Electric worked out an affordable plan putting us on their energyplus tariff, which is designed for low income people. Last week I informed them that I was now back at work and they still took the time to make sure I was earning enough to pay the bills, and promised to send me some energy saving lightbulbs. I can't thank them enough for helping me through a tough time.
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We had a meter change and now have the new LCD style dual rate meter. I noticed when the first bill arrived after the change that the figures seemed odd. On checking I noticed that the numbers were reversed. Luckily it was only about £30 difference on the bill but I'm now sending in readings. The problem appears to be because there is only one display and it puts the day rate first while the older meters had the night rate at the top. ( Comment from BG customer services confirms this as they state that the first reading is night rate. )
Regarding the comment by misshchandler about taking two readings. There might also be a lamp marked 100A on the meter. This comes on when the storage heater relay is on at night. If it's off you are on day rate and the R number showing is the day rate one.
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If people are prepared to register at the website of the provider (at least in the case of British Gas), readings can be submitted by the customer. A few days later, the customer can sign in again, and check that the reading has been accepted, the usage of energy (both via a graph and an actual table of numbers), and importantly, see what tariff is being charged, and how much energy is being used. It's pretty easy to submit the readings. Any messages sent to the company can be recorded by sending yourself a copy of any message you send them, using it as a reference if you need to telephone them or take the complaint to the ombudsman. If they haven't acted within a week of the message, you've got a case for them being at fault for not doing something! (Not to mention the Internet tariff they've got is a bit daft, it's so cheep!)
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We have moved to a new house and E.on sent us a bill with day and night muddled up. I rang them and they said they will send us a new bill out. I'm still waiting - 2 weeks has passed now. I bet I will have to chase them. We have changed suppliers and hope Scottish Hydro get it right.
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Our economy seven meter timer is now 12 hours out. We have tried to get them to come and reset it. It has so far taken around 7 hours on the phone two canceled visits where we are told we have to be in. One was canceled without notification. I have now given up and have altered all my timers so that the things that we usually do at night we are doing during the day. The only thing I am not sure about is my storage heaters. I assume they click on when we switch to night rate in which case we should have them on during the day.
Very poor service
Mandjankers
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We moved into a brand new thermally efficient apartment 3 years ago when we retired. The apartment is all electric and on an economy 7 meter. Interestingly we do not have night store heaters which may be significant.
When setting the Direct Debit 3 years ago, we were recommended to pay £30 per month. This seemed awfully cheap, so we opted to pay £40
All went well for nearly 3 years with our bills coming within the DD budget. During that period we were abroad for a 7 month period when we not suprisingly got into credit.
So, we were entirely confident that we had no energy usage problems. Imagine our suprise then, to learn that we owed £3700 when the meter was read in November and they re-jigged all the past bills. Apparently our meter was being read the wrong way round during those 3 years. We had been lulled into a false sense of security by EONs bills and readings and we do not see that we should pay. Had we known the truth there would have been an opportunity to make energy savings or to increase our budget. EON have deducted £2400 from the bill but we still are expected to pay £1300. Our DD would have to go up to £140 per month to cover the usage that we are used to. We are not profligate at all. There must be something else amiss surely but we don't know how to track it down.
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As a follow up to item 17, I have now been sent a threatening letter demanding payment of this bill that I don't owe!(With threats of court action etc)
even though they are alledgedly meant to be looking into this problem.
I am sending them a letter today accusing them of harrassment.
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I have been left with a debt of £300 by Eon who have read my rate 1 and rate 2 around the wrong way. Anybody know how I can get them to either write some or all of it off? I am now paying £100 a month and struggling but all they would offer me was to go on a prepayment meter instead of dual fuel direct debit and that would end up costing me more! Help??
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The utility companies appear to be becoming extremely arrogant. I signed up to view my Scottish Power bill on line, but purposely did NOT sign up for paperless billing. Then a few months later, I got emails confirming my paperless billing status. So I complained and they removed it.
On occasion, I have submitted my correction to estimated bills. Now I have had an email 'reminding me that it is time to submit my meter reading' This is sheer impertinence on their part, and I've had to complain again.
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I can add two more cases to the Economy 7 mix-up count: my friends and myself. We live in the same development. We are both still waiting for it to be sorted out. The fact that my direct debit suddenly rose from 35 Pounds to 180 Pounds a month should have let them to review the case, but it didn't. I had to file a complaint first.
On another note, my energy company Npower have failed to inform me of their price change last year. The prices are not shown in their online paperless bill section. Even phoning customer service did not reveal the true prices! They say that they have no legal obligation to inform their customers of a price change. That surely sounds dogdy to me. As a goodwill gesture, they agreed to refund half of the price difference. I am still convinced that I am owed the full amount, but I settled anyway. All the hassle...
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Before watching this episode of Watchdog I had changed electricity supplier as Eon were demanding a huge £200 a month on direct debit. For the record I live in a 2 bed house, not a 10 bed mansion!
After watching the episode I checked my meter, just on the off chance and found that my night readings were being taken as my day readings!
Checking back on bills identified this had been going on since we got the meter installed in 2004!!! Now I know we should have reviewed our bills closer and noticed it earlier, but who has the time for that?!
Wrote to them and they said it was unlikely but to take 2 sets of readings 10 minutes apart and let them know. Did this and 2 weeks later I got my final bill re-issued, showing a credit of £1300!!! I've had to phone them to arrange payment but I should get that shortly.
Very pleased as my future bills will of course be much lower!!
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I have been reading all the comments about the economy 7 meters and just can't believe the amount of people who are having problems. I recieved my electricity bill on friday and it said that I owed £896, I looked at the bill again and realised that it was an estimated bill, I went to read my meter, then phoned british gas with my readings. After giving them my readings I was told that I had the readings the wrong way round! I explained to the gentleman on the phone that rate 1 was my night rate and rate 2 was my day rate, he continued to dispute this and eventually cut me off. I then phoned the complaints department and spoke to a lady who still disputed the fact that I was wrong and she was right. By this point I was so annoyed and felt like I was going mad! The stickers on the front of my meter clearly state which rate is which why would nobody listen!!!
On saturday morning I decided to phone the complaints department again, at last I was speaking to somebody who seemed to understand! He asked me to check my meter while I was talking to him and it was quite clear which rate was day and which was night, he is now investigating the situation fully, I have had to take my meter readings for the next five days and then he will contact me to take readings. I think that the people who either don't know how to read these meters or the big companys who are switching these readings need to be investigated. This has been stressfull for me and I don't think these big companys understand! They are quicker enough to send the bills out and take your money but not quite so quick to help you when there is a problem.
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I have been reading all the comments about the economy 7 meters and just can't believe the amount of people who are having problems. I recieved my electricity bill on friday and it said that I owed £896, I looked at the bill again and realised that it was an estimated bill, I went to read my meter, then phoned british gas with my readings. After giving them my readings I was told that I had the readings the wrong way round! I explained to the gentleman on the phone that rate 1 was my night rate and rate 2 was my day rate, he continued to dispute this and eventually cut me off. I then phoned the complaints department and spoke to a lady who still disputed the fact that I was wrong and she was right. By this point I was so annoyed and felt like I was going mad! The stickers on the front of my meter clearly state which rate is which why would nobody listen!!!
On saturday morning I decided to phone the complaints department again, at last I was speaking to somebody who seemed to understand! He asked me to check my meter while I was talking to him and it was quite clear which rate was day and which was night, he is now investigating the situation fully, I have had to take my meter readings for the next five days and then he will contact me to take readings. I think that the people who either don't know how to read these meters or the big companys who are switching these readings need to be investigated. This has been stressfull for me and I don't think these big companys understand! They are quick enough to send the bills out and take your money but not quite so quick to help you when there is a problem.
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see the new budget we have ended up with here in ireland, the only people who win again are those who are long term on the dole, it pays to be lazy,
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we have had ongoing issues with EON since 2004 when we decided to change from a prepayment meter to a normal day/night meter as we have economy 7,to save us money.
little did we know that this was going to be a nightmare,bareing in mind we live in a 2 bed flat, we ended up with a £2,000 bill,was told it was wrong on numerous occassions and they would sort it out.
they came to read our meters but we kept getting an estimated bill,or a bill saying read by yourself-which we hadnt.
last week we were told we were in credit (beg april 2009) now 25th april we are in debt again and they want £800 now and £123/month.
has anyone any ideas what we can do to get rid of this ,can it be wrote of? i just want to see the back of this and pay what we are using. and if they cant read the meters correctly ,how are we supposed to.
I would like some help or opinions on this please.
thank you
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