Mobile phone owners misled over insurance
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A mobile phone is stolen in the UK every 12 seconds, so for many people it makes sense to buy insurance for a new mobile in case anything goes wrong. But thousands of people who have bought mobile phone insurance are being misled into buying a second policy just days, or even hours, later.
Watchdog has received complaints about two companies, both based in Swansea: Future Phones Ltd now called Reliance Cover Ltd, and Assure Phone, part of a company called Bluetooth Services Ltd.
Both Future Phones and Assure Phone cold call people who have recently bought a new mobile phone contract. Their sales agents use clever wording that can easily mislead customers into buying a second policy without realising it.
David Lake and his son Steven already had insurance for Steven's mobile phone when they were called by Reliance Cover. They thought they were speaking to their original insurance company and, when they were told that the cost of their insurance was being reduced, agreed to a new deal and confirmed their bank details. They paid an upfront charge of £44.99.
Angry and misled
What they didn't know was that Reliance Cover is an entirely separate company to their original provider and they had been signed up to a second insurance policy. David asked for a refund when he realised, but it took seven weeks for that to arrive, and Reliance Cover deducted £20 as an administration charge. He's angry and feels he was misled.
So, too, does Emily Cole. She got a call from Reliance Cover in November 2008 telling her the cost of her insurance was also being reduced. She thought she was speaking to her existing insurance provider and so agreed to a new deal, authorising the company to deduct the £44.99 upfront fee.
She then received a second call from Reliance Cover, to confirm her details. But Emily was still not clear which company she had been speaking to, or to whom she had given her bank details. She thought it was her original insurance provider, but when she phoned the company to check, she was told it wasn't.
Emily was confused, and because she couldn't work out who she had actually given her bank details to, decided to cancel all her bank cards.
So where does Reliance Cover get your phone number from?
Well, when it calls it knows practically nothing about you. It has picked your number at random from a sequence of thousands of numbers and knows only which phone network you're on. It doesn't even know your name. When it asks you to 'confirm' your details it is actually getting them from you for the very first time.
Undercover sales agent
We sent a researcher to work undercover at the company as a sales agent. The script he was given told him to tell customers he called that their insurance cover was being reduced, which gives the very clear impression that the call is from their original provider.
David Sanders, lead officer in civil law from the Trading Standards Institute, told us that the script used by Reliance Cover is very misleading and gives the clear impression that the company is negotiating a contract that customers already have.
However, at least Reliance Cover's insurance cover does exist.
Assure Phone, part of Bluetooth Services, also claims to offer mobile phone insurance. But the company isn't regulated by the Financial Services Authority (FSA), and isn't allowed to sell insurance. So although the company makes big claims when it calls, in reality the 'cover' it offers isn't a real insurance policy at all.
Replacement phone was second-hand
Chris Foot knows all too well about that. He became an Assure Phone customer after receiving a call in January 2008 from what he thought was his original insurance company. He realised later that he was paying for two policies but kept his cover with Assure because he'd already paid an upfront fee of £69.99. When his phone was knocked out of his hand in September he claimed for a replacement phone. It took over two months to arrive, and when it did it was second-hand. It even had someone else's appointments in the phone's calendar.
Watchdog wanted to put these companies to the test, and a researcher bought a new mobile phone contract from a high-street retailer. Sure enough, we received a call from Assure Phone just days later. During the call we were told that the caller was representing our mobile phone network and that our original insurance cover was being reduced. This wasn't true - the call was very much from Assure and it wanted to sell us a second insurance policy.
Swansea Trading Standards is aware of the problem and is working with the FSA to try to find a solution. It has asked for anyone who has been called by the company and feels they have been misled to contact them.
Company responses
Reliance Cover told Watchdog that it doesn't recognise the portrayal of the way it company operates. It says that its processes and scripts have been developed after taking advice from Trading Standards and other regulatory bodies. It also says that it makes it clear during its phone calls who it is, and gives its name over the phone. The company adds that it makes a second phone call, which it records, in which it confirms its details with customers. It says that it does occasionally have problems but that when it does it fixes them.
Assure Phone told Watchdog that it sells warranties rather than insurance so it does not need to be regulated by the FSA. It said that our call must have come from a member of its temporary Christmas staff it has taken on and that it will be retraining all of its staff fully. It says that it strives to do its best and that customers who are unhappy may be attempting to claim for something not in their warranty terms and conditions.
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I had a call like this, but I asked that if they were indeed Vodafone, shouldn't they already know my details?
Suprising how quick they slammed the phone down on me!
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I signed up with o2 about 6 months ago and took out the insurance from the provider. Then, a few days later I received a phone call asking me to take insurance on my new phone and new contract, and insisted that I hadn't already got insurance. When I questioned if they were calling from o2, they hung up and never called back. Upon asking o2 who may have called me, they had no idea and no idea of how they got any of my details including my mobile number and name. Not happy!
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I would love to know where these companies are getting their information from. They might not know everything, but they do seem to know mobile number, name and perhaps address. And of course, that you have bought a new mobile phone on contract.
Where exactly are they getting this information from? Network providers? The retailers?
I think this is a much more serious issue, and should be looked into.
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i had assure phone calling me constantly for about 4 months. I told them i work for the police and this didnt put them off. They even rang me up to give me abuse for not taking the insurance, even swearing at me. i asked them to take me off the calling list and the man on the phone said he wouldnt and would make sure i got a call every single day. this did finally stop two months ago and havent heard from them since.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Future phones rang shortly after i had a new contract with vodafone. I had the same problem, believing it was the insurance from vodafone themselves. I soon noticed that two direct debits were coming out of my account. I rang future phones and said i wanted to cancel the policy, they said i had to write a letter confirming cancellation. I sent this letter and then recieved a reply from them stating that the policy had never begun so they would start the policy straight away even though i had asked to canel because they had been taking monthly payments. I then cancelled the direct debit link with my online banking, and money stopped being taken from my account. I never received confirmation from future phones of what id asked for. [Personal details removed by Moderator]
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I have had this problem twice now. I bought a new mobile in august and received a call the same day from a welsh insurance company offering me a better insurance that what i had with carphone warehouse. They had all my details, knew what phone i had etc. It sounded like a good deal and i stupidly gave them my account details and they took my first payment of £45 and said they would take another £45 in 6months (this gave me 18 months cover). I wasnt happy about them getting my details from Carphone warehouse so i rung them and they told me that i shouldnt have given them my details. i panicked and changed my card details straight away so they couldnt take 2nd payment. I called the company and they put me on hold for ages, in the end my call was cut off. I kept trying over and over but got so fed up i gave up. Im sure this company know that any incoming calls are complaints so they dont bother answering them! [Personal details removed by Moderator]
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I had a call ike this and paid £100 up front i feel like a complete idiot obiously the company have sent me no details on my 'insurance' even when i rang to follow up, afer cancelling my previous insurance i'm now without cover for an expensive phone. After talking to a friend who works at carphone warehouse i discovred they are aware of the problem so why was i not told? as far as i'm concerned they hold some responsibility for not warning their customers when the information was taken from their stores! What can i do now? Nothing! I'm £100 down (plus £40 for revious insurance) and still no insurance.
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Bartmanekul, I'm very interested in the answer to this too. I got a call after joining O2. They had a lot of info, including my bank details. I spoke to O2 and Carphone Warehouse and both denied knowledge of the company and passing on my details. I don't feel confident that my details are being protected well enough and would not be surprised if they were being sold on.
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I agree with Bartmanekul, why did Watchdog not investigate how they are getting our details. Even if they tried random numbers they would get some exisiting long term customers but they don't - they always get new customers. Also, how do they know your network, since number portability was introdued mobile number ranges are not dedicated to a specific network. come on Watchdog - there's a bigger story here -who is selling them the new connection details?!?!?
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I too was conned by this company. The day I activated my new phone I had a call and was offered a 24 month contract for £99. At the time I said I wasn't sure but the sales guy chatted on and on and I gave him my details. When the confirmation letter came through the contract was for 18months. I had already cancelled my insurance with Carphone Warehouse. I phoned the company to complain and said I had been misled and asked for confirmation that I have actually got insurance but have not had this. I will be contacting them tomorrow to demand a refund and contact trading standards in Swansea also. I will get my insurance elsewhere.
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I had a call from these people having purchased a phone from phone 4 u. like a fool I gave all my account details out. I did suspect something was wrong so I asked then for their phone number and rang them back. by the time I realised, they had taken the money (44.99) I have now cancelled my debit card and sent a cancellation through to them by recorded delivery. They told me that the money will be back in my account by this coming Wednesday if its no I intend to go visiting I have their address. If it works and anyone wants the wording of my letter let me know
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This is sales!!!
Surely if it's cheaper, better and genuine it's all good!!!!
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This was not a very balanced report. You should have compared both policies and advised the viewers which was the best value.
I suspect you would find that the firm in Swansea was far cheaper and yet another example of mobile phone companies overcharging thier customers and allowing these other agencies to exist.
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Its happened to my son also
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I had a call like this within 3 Months of taking out a new 02 contract. I had already taken insurance out on the phone and these people claimed that i could save up to 50% on what i was currently paying and they said that they worked for 02, so i believed that they were credible. I gave them all my details including my debit card details. after i had done that they told me that they were taking out £80 from my account. I told them not to take any money (had nothing in there anyway). I phoned 02 and they just said that they were external insurance providers. They advised me then to change all my bank account details.... luckily no money was taken!
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i have had 14 calls from a welsh man in the past 2 months trying to get my bank details off me assuring me that i will get 65% off my existing insurance, i am so glad that i didnt give them to him it all sounded a bit dodgy because all he knew was my first name and that i was on o2. when i questioned him he just gave me some long speel about the data protection act and a 'customer services' number, at no point did he tell me he was from a different company, i think this should be stopped immediately its just all a big scam.
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My insurance was taken out with a telesales company and I've never had any problems with my provider. I've had to make a claim in the past and I've had no problems plus it was worked out cheaper than any quote I was given when taking out a new contract on my phone!
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"Rogue companies in Swansea" doesn't just cover these insurance scammers.
Last time my contract was due for renewal I received a number of calls from outfits purporting to be my phone company (it was 3 at the time) trying to upsell my phone to a better model.
The attention getting thing was that I had the topline phone available and what they were offering was a retrograde step for more money.
When I started asking pointed questions about who the companies were I was usually hung up upon or sworn at, but the callers who did give details gave swansea as the location.
I should point out that I registered my number with the Telephone Protecton service _immediately_ I'd received the phone.
The issue of mobile phone scammers is one which irks me a lot, as does the constant breaching of the TPS - with no enforcement action being made. That makes a huge mockery of the 5000 pound PER CALL fines in law for this activity.
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How did they get your numbers?
It's quite simple really.
Lists of recently allocated number blocks are published regularly.
The scamming companies simply ring sequentially down the range until someone answers.
Similar tactics are employed to scam people at renewal time - simply wait until the numbers are 10 months old and then employ the same sequential dialling tactics.
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i took out warranty cover with assurephone they told me that they could give me insurance for £90 so i would save money. They new how much i was paying, and were able to confirm the forst 4 dijits of my bank card. they told me to process the cover i would have to confirm my bank details again which i done. after i took out the warranty they told me in a txt of confirmation i would have to cancel a direct debit with life line who were my previous insurance company. i then called and explained they never told me they werent the carphone warehouse and they said i had to send back my documrnts when they came through. i had to cancel my bank card and i told one of the advisors i cancelled my bank card so i would like the refund in a chack. she then asked why i cancelled my bank card and if it was because of them the check would not go through which is not true. i am still waiting for a refund today.
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Bartmanekul - the point is they no NOTHING part from your mobile number - everything else is cleverly tricked out of you by asking you to 'confirm' your name, post code etc.
They DO NOT KNOW these at the start of the call - you tell them.
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Devon_man (and others) - mobile numbers are still issued in blocks - huge runs of numbers, by provider.
When I got my iphone I was offered the chance to pick from a list in order from thousands available, simply add one to the end of your own number and its someone else on the same network who bought their phone at the same time as you.
There is NO conspiracy by the operators to sell your details, the victim unwittingly 'confirms' all the details they need. Watch the program if this is too hard for you to comprehend.
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My son was caught out with assured phone selling him "insurance", his phone went wrong and he sent it to them following their instructions he hasnt seen it since. he has rung them several times and sometimes they tell him its been posted and other times they tell him they are waiting for a part from Hong Kong !! it has been about 5 weeks now so not only do they have £59.99 of his money, they also have his phone.
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I would like to add to my earlier comment in he fact that although people (including mysel) who have fallen for this have been incredibly stupid in so willingly giving out their details and yes it is not the phone company's fault however they do have an obligation to their customers to warn them of such calls.
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If the bbc is reading these posts (or if anyone happens to know) what is the best course of action if the company took the money from my account but is not insuring me in any way? Is this fraud?
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This happened to me, i never got my money back tho. I took out a contract with vodaphone in [Retailer's details removed by Moderator]cardiff in march, the next day i recieved a phonecall claiming to be from my insurer wanting to verify my details, thing is they knew my name, what phone model i had and some of my bank details, they read out the first few digits of my card number, which i have now realised that as long as they know what bank your with the first few numbers are all the same, and i proceeded to give them the rest of the details. they then took £75 from my account and sent me a bunch of very shoddy looking insurance documents! what really annoyed me was when i went back to phones4u having realised what happened they practically bullied me out of the shop claming it had nothing to do with them and it must of been a coincidence! ive since written letters to both phones4u to complain and the "insurace company domway LTD" as they call themselves to ask for my money back and ive heard nothing! i phoned them to cancel my "policy" and they hung up on me, very fustrating and im still out of pocket by £75. This surly cant be legal to trick people into giving out their personal banking details!!
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Who told you that the companies ring sequential numbers, probably the company you got your new mibile phone from ?? I do not believe this.
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My son has been scammed 3 times by 3 different companies, they are NOT the companies included in last night programme, 3 new ones - So that is 5 altogether - But guess what, they were all from Swansea. I am not a detective but there has got to be a link between the Rogue companies & Swansea!!
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In google adress bar put carphonewarehouseinsurancescam -- there is hundreds of blogs in there too - daing back from 2005
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Don't forget guys, the people who are scamming us out of our money are probably writing in this blog also, to make us think we are stupid or in the wrong - I know i'm not any of the above but my son has lost £265 to theses scammers, in 4 weeks only one of the 3 companies has sent a contract to him - If this isn't a scam then what is?
Why didn't they tell the truth when they rang, we are covered by the sales mis-representation act of 1967
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To solidsteel
If you picked your new number from thousands on the list and you say they are ringing the number before & after, what happens if no-one picks those numbers before and after yours for a month,or 2 months, or 3 months or even a year????? you seriously do not believe there is not a data protection problem somewhere.
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Georgia,
I personally have got 99pounds back of my sons money, by quoting the 1967 act in my previous blog, I cannot contact the either of the other 2 scammers because they do not answer their phone, ever. But the dialling code is Swansea.
I dont know whether watchdog will allow this but the companies concerned are;
[Company details removed by Moderator]
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Just spoke to the company who mis-sold my son an insurance policy, the one who gave him his 99pounds back --
He had NO COMMENT on all of the questions I asked.
Honest company then isn't it,
-- COME ON WATCHDOG --
I have got his name, address etc,(I will Give it to you)
-- GO AND ASK HIM WHERE HE GOT MY SONS DETAILS FROM,
I live in Carlisle or I would go.
Also to the Trading Standards dept of Swansea, this problem was first recorded in 2005, WHAT HAVE YOU DONE ABOUT THIS PROBLEM, YOU HAVE HAD 4 YEARS TO SORT IT OUT????
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Call me sad if you want to - my son just has -
I have just rang the 20 numbers before my sons new number and the 20 numbers after my sons new number and all of them are
NOT IN SERVICE.
Hopefully there goes the theory of them ringing subsequential numbers,
The only other thing is DATA PROTECTION, that the shop you bought the phone from or the provider have a responsibility to have for your personal details, including a phone number.
I am personally going down this route, the scammers contacted my son 3 hours after activating his new sim, by simply switching his phone on, he had not even contacted anyone before the scammers contacted him.
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I have been caught out by this scam, after buying a iphone i recieved a phonecall on my new phone by a company named [Company details removed by Moderator]
The person calling seemed to know alot about my new phone and contract, and i did need insurance and so i went through with it and paid a one-off payment of £120 to them who appeared on my bill. After this i received a genuine looking letter from them explaining how to contact them etc, and so i assumed it was all set up and thats where i left it.
Until i broke the screen on my phone and needed to claim, the number provided was a premium rate number and was never awnsered!
This was when i realised the scam and found other people affected by similar scams.
I am now left with a broken iphone, £120 out of pocket and no way of getting it back.
Something needs to be done, why are all new number released to companies like these?
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To the doubting Thomases about sequential dialling.
Google for "Robdiallers" and "silent call guard" - the websites will give good explanations of how the sequential dialler scams work.
In a nutshell, the telesales murketeers (I choose that word carefully) are not dialling the numbers by hand. It's done electronically, at a rate of hundreds of numbers a minute (ISDN gives an unobtainable or busy signal within 100ms of dialling and dialling only takes 100ms or less) until a number is both active and answered. If too many are answered at once, the robot only passes as many to the telesales reps as can be handled and drops the rest (hence the "silent call" name)
Here's the rub: such activity is ILLEGAL in most countries and trivially detectable by telephone companies, even when the culprits attempt to randomise calls within a block. Telcos can block such activity IF THEY CHOOSE TO DO SO. Most UK telcos seem to regard customer service as akin to farmyard animal "servicing", so it's unsuprising they don't take proactive measures to protect us from scammers.
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I too have had one of these calls. I was conned into giving my back details. This was statemented as [Company details removed by Moderator] I have not received any confirmation by post of my cover and cannot find a number anywhere to even got hold of this company!
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*** They knew how much I was paying, and were able to confirm the first 4 digits of my bank card. ***
Of course they can. They ask the name of your bank/type of card near the start of the call, and then go and look up the card digits for that bank and card type, to make it look like they have all of your bank details.
The first four digits are the same for EVERY customer of that bank with that type of card. The first four digits *identify* the bank and card type:
It took less than 30 seconds to locate this via Google:
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Don't be fooled.
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*** If you picked your new number from thousands on the list and you say they are ringing the number before & after, what happens if no-one picks those numbers before and after yours for a month,or 2 months, or 3 months or even a year? ***
The major high-street retailers must sell at least several thousand numbers per network every day (and tens of thousands on peak days). The numbers at the top of the list (however good or bad) would surely never stick around for more than a few days or more? It seems like a number range (one million numbers) lasts only a few months before a new one starts to be used.
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To waynesblog, just because you rang 20 numbers and had no success, this does not mean that this is not the method they use.
They have autodialing software. It will ring thousands of numbers, and only when one connects and rings will it connect the call to one of their operators. If it does not ring because the phone or SIM card has not yet been activated then the phone number is simply stored to be called again later. A failed call costs them nothing, so the software will call many thousand numbers in a day. This software & equipment is commonly and cheaply available.
To prove it to yourself, keep trying those 20 numbers again every day for the next 3 months, you will eventually get through to most of them.
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[Personal details removed by Moderator] Its a case of Big Brother is watching, as every phone number connected it available on various data-bases. As pointed out in the programme, they dont know your name, and clever wording is used to gain answers from customers. are aware of this, in deadicate the whole of the back cover of the policy booklet to passing this information on. Whether the callers sound real, it should be pointed out that we should all be well aware by now that we never give our bank details to any cold callers
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I bought a new Nokia 95 on Vodafone contract and took out an insurance aswell with the Link. A week later i had a phonecall from an insurance company, they offered me cheaper insurance and that they would change it for me from paying £10 to paying £4. But for them to do that they would need to take £40 fee. Then i would carry on with the paying £4 after 10 months. But when i checked my bank statement i had been charged twice by two companies. I had been lied to [Personal details removed by Moderator] As a Student i was annoyed.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
when you have a phone that's only a few hours old you naturally assume the only
people who could be dialling you is the provider- was in a hurry and was had too
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I'm still confused to how they got my son's new phone number,
Please stoatwblr, you said
"Lists of recently
allocated number blocks
are published regularly".
WHERE ARE THEY PUBLISHED??
Please help.
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To All,
We seem to be getting
no-where,
If we ALL tell Watchdog the name of the shop outlet we purchased the phone from & the airtime provider there may be a link between them all, It may just be 1 company or 1 provider ??
Watchdog will not show the names to us but at least they will know where the problem is?
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To All,
We seem to be getting
no-where,
If we ALL tell Watchdog the name of the shop outlet we purchased the phone from & the airtime provider there may be a link between them all, It may just be 1 company or 1 provider??
Watchdog will not show the names to us but at least they will know where the problem is?
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