Would you visit a lap-dancing club?
We took a 5 live listener, Nina de la Mer, to a lap-dancing club in Brighton after its owner, Les Pearce, issued an on-air challenge.
Have a listen to how Nina got on:
And here's Nina's own account of her visit:
"As a Brighton local I'm concerned by the proliferation of lap-dancing clubs in my area. I visited Spearmint Rhino, in Brighton, to offer a 5 live listener's perspective on the clubs.
The biggest shock for me was the financial aspect: the dancers pay the club a fee to perform a near-nude pole-dance, in order to advertise themselves to the customers. I felt the arguments offered in favour of lap-dancing by Les, the club-owner, and Robin, the dancer, to be spurious, and that neither seemed concerned by the effect a lap-dancing club has on the local environment and society in general.
My conclusion: my visit to the club only confirmed my worst fears about the industry. I won't be visiting again."
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~24~RS~)
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For these clubs to exist there has to be demand for them, and if the customers are happy and the dancers are happy then there should be no objections from people not involved in any real way.
And in many pubs/clubs singers and bands do have to pay a fee to perform.
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Thank you so much for pointing out what happens at lap dancing clubs, I have felt for a while now that this should be pointed out to people, I am dragged against my will every weekend to clubs like this, I sit and they dance I hate it, but what can I do ? I am FORCED to go.............Get a life, there are so many things in this world that need to be looked at, and because you dont like walking past a club like this ?????? do they drag you in ? do they ask you to do a quick dance as you pass ? Most people do not know and really dont care what happens in an Adult club as long as all are safe and it is consensual, what is the problem? you had no idea really what went on in there but you do now, so? you dont like it, fine, I dont like a lot of things but I cant get them closed, I am not that keen on the beliefs of Jehova witness's but I wouldnt want them shut down or feel awkward walking past the church. To be honest I am suprised you were allowed in an Adult Club with such immature ideology.
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When i worked in The City, i did once visit a Lap Dancing club with a client. It seemed to be full of sad, deluded men and outwardly attractive and confident women. It appeared quite obvious that it was the men that were being exploited and is not something i have any wish to do again.
Now that i work as a mini-cab driver, i often take the dancers to and from work. If you chat to them they are almost always intelligent, confident, attractive women who are very much in control of the situation and know exactly what they are doing. Even though i personally find the clubs distasteful, it seems to me that many of the women who work in them have the potential to gain a great deal of financial independence and freedom. As long as the girls are never be coersed, i cannot see the problem. Never has "a fool and his money are easily parted" been more appropriate.
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I know the morality of the BBC is already in the gutter but I wish to make my voice heard, that this is unacceptable for many people who are not yet morally bankrupt!
A few statements which I for one don't want to hear on National radio during "Mouth open" "Breast's pert" "Nude dancing".
Enough said.
As for the issue addressed, my sentiments if you wish to hear them are as follows:
Lapdancing clubs are a disgrace for filthy perverts to pay for sin. They bring a nation down and are a shame and a disgrace to any decent society.
That these things are considered ok by many shows how far this nation has slipped into the gutter.
These are obviously wrong even to someone who has poor morals!
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"Lapdancing clubs are a disgrace for filthy perverts to pay for sin. They bring a nation down and are a shame and a disgrace to any decent society.
That these things are considered ok by many shows how far this nation has slipped into the gutter.
These are obviously wrong even to someone who has poor morals!"
So your life is SO wonderful and you have all the answers, good luck to you, but why so bothered what others do and enjoy? Decent society? 10s of Thousands Killed in the name of God every year throughout the world, Gods children die of starvation every day, homeless people all over the world, greed and killing common place, Religion kills people EVERY Day, so let people be, and get on with life, while we can.........and that is the BOTTOM line, is BOTTOM ok ? not sure ?.
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Just had a thought, I think AMERICA is corrupt and a filthy place I hate looking at it and if I ever have to walk past it, well I wouldnt know where to look. So Five Live will you send me there so I can confirm or of course have my feelings and thoughts re affirmed or changed? I also think the same about Italy, Rolls Royce, Jumbo Jets, Restaurants and I am sure there will be many many more that I need the License fee payer to send me to, I await the invitations.
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I think it's all very sad really. Society is becoming more immune to pornography and clubs like Spearmint Rhino are becoming "normalised". Men who would have previously been to a strip show, now need a women to dangle her private parts right in front of his face. And they call this "female company". Men who would previously have looked at girlie magazines now seek out more and more explicit porn on the internet. It's like an addiction and Society is the addict.
I would personally feel I had failed as a woman and a mother if my 18 year old daughter told me that she wanted to become a lap dancer and that she thought it would "empower" her. What on earth does that mean anyway? What is "empowering" about sexually arousing a man in public? It's not exactly rocket science, is it.
Victoria read out a text from a lady who said her husband was breaking her heart by visiting these clubs. That made me really sad.
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Feminists really make me mad.
Women's bodies are theirs to do with as they choose.
Unless it involves providing a bit of pleasure for men.
They get paid, Keep fit, have drinks paid for and enjoy themselves.
Beats stacking shelves.
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I went out with a lapdancer. She wanted to dance since she was 12. Her choice. She made more in a good night than I got in a week.
Some people have to stop their hatred of men getting in the way of other peoples freedoms. I mean you Victoria. Bring back Asmah. She was 10 milion times better when you were off.
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"Beats stacking shelves" - yep, because that's all that women that don't lap dance can do, isn't it?
Make up your minds - either the dancers are all intelligent, sassy women or they're shelf- stackers - which is it?
Oh, and just because I think they are sleazy, sad places full of sleazy sad men that only go because they can't get a good looking girl to look at them unless they pay her, doesn't mean I want them banned.
Believe it or not, not everyone wants things banned just because they don't personally like them.
Live and let live, eh?
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Wonderful polarised debate - although the truth is most of the people in there know exactly what they are doing - yes I have even been myself. we are not sad, lonely men, but it is enjoyable and treated as such is not a problem.
As others have pointed out the women also seem to do alright out of it and if there is even the sniff of trouble the bouncers step in.
There are plenty of real problems out there to solve, leave this irrelevance out of it.
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Hello
I love robust debate that's why I love doing the programme we do - but please can I urge you to be a little more polite on my blog? I geuinely can't bear the hostility that some show to others with whom they disagree. If you met each other you wouldn't speak to each other like this so why do it on the internet? I urge you to be courteous to each other, please. We want to encourage people to post their views not scare them away if their views don't "fit".
Thanks
Victoria
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Hi,
It's Nina the original poster of the blog and listener who went to the lap-dancing club for Victoria's show.
I'd just like to take up the point about the dancers being happy in the clubs. Fair enough, some may be happy, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary from ex-dancers themselves who feel exploited and dehumanised by their experience. Also, we need to consider the plight of dancers who have been trafficked from abroad and/ or later coerced into prostitution - reports show that both these things are happening in lap-dancing clubs in the UK.
And if we're thinking about the wider impact on the local environment and society, then we need to put whether the dancers are happy or not to one side for a second. I would urge everyone to think more deeply about the issue: about the fact women are objectified in society and these clubs are only making matters worse, or the fact that sexual violence towards women (there is anecdotal and statistical evidence for this) has increased in areas where there is a proliferation of lap-dancing clubs. To those who say 'each to their own,' yes, I'd agree, but only when the philosophy does not harm others or the wider community.
I am happy to debate this here on the blog, but please don't try to contact me via other sites. I don't think that's on, really. You know who you are!
Cheers, Nina
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'Fair enough, some may be happy, but there is plenty of evidence to the contrary from ex-dancers themselves who feel exploited and dehumanised by their experience'
In many jobs some people are happy and others feel expolited and dehumanised by thier experience ie working in Tesco's or MacDonalds - Why do you only appear to have a problem with lapdancing clubs?
'Also, we need to consider the plight of dancers who have been trafficked from abroad'
Lots of industries in Britian traffic people in from abroad to expolit and make money from so why do you only appear to have a problem with lapdancing clubs?
'To those who say 'each to their own,' yes, I'd agree, but only when the philosophy does not harm others or the wider community.'
A countless number of types of business it could be claimed harm others or the wider community, so again - Why do you only appear to have a problem with lapdancing clubs?
'I would urge everyone to think more deeply about the issue: about the fact women are objectified in society and these clubs are only making matters worse, or the fact that sexual violence towards women (there is anecdotal and statistical evidence for this) has increased in areas where there is a proliferation of lap-dancing clubs.'
If you are trying to blame an increase in sexual violence towards women on lapdancing clubs (based on statistics that are probably seriosuly flawed) I would suggest you must be a little crazy and have far too much time on your hands. Are you/Do you?
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I’m afraid I didn’t get to listen to this live but have just listened to Nina’s account. Would I go into a lap-dancing club? Only as an alternative to gouging my own eyes with my bare hands.
Funnily enough, we were out on Saturday night and I (being a 20-something year old woman) was talking about how I can’t stand feminists because they always seem so hairy and angry and not at all representative of me, or what I want. I was only half serious at the time – I mainly said it to wind up one of our party who kept on rambling on about getting even and “taking back her power” and other such trite phrases that have become conditioned into the female psyche.
Then on Monday I stumbled upon this article from Ask Men.com, entitled Top 10 Ways Men Have Brainwashed Women: www.askmen.com/top_10/entertainment/top-10-ways-men-have-brainwashed-women.html. It is SO spot on.
A funny and sad kind of irony. We, as women, have deluded ourselves into believing that by playing into men’s fantasies and becoming the mindless, soulless tits and arse that pole dancers are (in the context of them actually dancing on the pole – not in other aspects of their life) we are the ones in control. Oops!
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