TMS changes explained
| 15:21 PM, Wednesday, 20 August 2008
There has been a fair amount of comment since the news was announced that Mike Selvey was not going to be part of the Test Match Special team and I thought it was a good opportunity to explain the thinking behind this decision.
Firstly I would again like to thank Mike for his outstanding contribution to the programme. The decision was not an easy one, but we felt that the time was right to introduce some more recent Test cricketers into the commentary mix.
Over the 51 years of the programme TMS has always evolved and occasionally a new voice has arrived. It is important for the commentary team to have a blend of experiences, backgrounds and voices.
The mix is the crucial part of the success of the programme and we felt that a couple of more current names would bring listeners a different viewpoint.
We believe a team which includes for example the wisdom and wit of Vic Marks, the strong opinion and great historical knowledge of Geoff Boycott plus more recent perspective from the likes of Angus Fraser, Phil Tufnell and Alec Stewart is a really strong line up going forward, complemented by popular overseas names like Jeremy Coney, Viv Richards and Shaun Pollock, who has made a very encouraging debut this summer.
I would like to set the record straight on a couple of things that have been suggested. There seems to be a concern that TMS is being "dumbed down" or turned into "Radio 5 Live".
I can state categorically that there is no pressure or desire to change what is distinctive about Test Match Special. It is a unique programme which has always blended outstanding commentary with great humour and strong journalism and appeals to listeners from different backgrounds and different age groups. It is loved equally by cricket obsessives and by those with only a passing interest in the game.
A lot of the talk about TMS "becoming like 5 Live" seems to have come about because a couple of the newer commentators have previously done most of their broadcasting on 5 Live. However any talk of a "5 Live" takeover is simply not true.
This summer for example only ONE Test match out of seven has actually featured one of the newer commentators with Mark Pougatch part of the team at Lord's. Mark was joined by TMS stalwarts Jonathan Agnew and Christopher Martin-Jenkins. The core commentary team were on duty for the other six games.
Mark Pougatch is an outstanding broadcaster with a great knowledge and passion for cricket who has been involved with the sport throughout his career including reporting for BBC Radio on tours to New Zealand and Australia plus commentating on Cricket World Cup games and one day internationals.
There has been some comment about newer commentators not knowing enough about the game. I go back to my comment earlier about the importance of a mix within the TMS team.
The programme has always thrived through its combination of excellent broadcasters and experts who played the game to the highest level.
John Arlott, Brian Johnston, Henry Blofeld and Christopher Martin-Jenkins are four of the programme's most popular ever commentators who did not play the game at the top level.
Equally popular is Jonathan Agnew who of course was a former Test match player and he can bring a different perspective to his commentary. I believe the mix of former players and excellent broadcasters is critical.
Obviously the majority of our audience do not play the game at the highest level and sometimes the queries they have can be echoed by a broadcaster with a journalistic curiosity who, whilst having an excellent knowledge of the game, does not know all the answers.
Some have asked why there is a need to find new voices at all. Well the answer to that is that we have to! The growing amount of cricket that the BBC covers simply cannot be covered by the core team.
For example this winter alone features tours to India and the West Indies, the Champions Trophy, the Champions League, the Stanford series and the Women's World Cup. A team of three commentators can simply not do all of this.
One of the most exciting parts of the job is trying to develop the broadcasters to augment the core team. Not surprisingly some names will inevitably come from the BBC Sports Room as that is the home of some of the countries most outstanding broadcasters.
Of course the likes of Christopher Martin-Jenkins came through that route. However we are also working with others from a different background, for example Simon Hughes will be part of our commentary team for the India Test series.
Finally I would like to strongly dispute any suggestion that there is a desire to "dumb down" TMS. The programme is and always will be a mix of intelligent debate, brilliant commentary and great humour.
One of my favourite memories of listening to TMS was hearing Brian Johnston discussing the latest goings on in "Neighbours". There were no remarks about TMS "dumbing down" then. It was simply part of the rich diversity of the programme.
This summer I believe this mix has been as strong as ever. We have had serious debate about the influx of "Twenty20 Leagues" and the resignation of Michael Vaughan, gripping commentary such as the thrilling climax to the Oval one-day international against New Zealand and moments of great humour such as the great Christopher Martin-Jenkins "fishing" incident.
When I took over as TMS Producer I stated that it was an honour and a privilege to be involved in a national institution. It is a job which carries great responsibility and I take it very seriously.
The game of cricket is evolving at a great rate so we should also be looking to evolve our coverage of it.
However there has never been any need for major change to the programme and major change is not going to happen.
It is essential that Test Match Special remains a national institution, and it will.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~38~RS~)
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Nice to see that our comments are at least being noticed.
Personally my problem is not with having new presenters, making the game accessible, or having presenters that haven't played at the highest level, - I think that some of the better presenters are those that have honed the craft of presenting over a period of time as you say.
My problem is just that some of them, such as Boycott and Pougatch to name just two, just don't cut the mustard and certainly don't provide the level of insight that Selvey has over the years.
Simon Hughes should be a very welcome addition.
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It is very good of you to address the concerns of many listeners, even if some of them were intemperately put.
I still fear somewhat for TMS, this wouldn't be the first time that a reassuring blog was written when intentions were less benevolent (look at pretty much anything Roger Mosey has ever written), but I am somewhat reassured by the apparent thought that has gone into the piece.
Thanks.
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How can you replace as summarizer the erudite Mike Selvey with the giggling Alec Stewart ? Stewart is also far too close to the players he is acting as agent for.
As for the commentators, another Simon Mann is what you need, not Mark 'FIGJAM' Pougatch.
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A good team for next year's Ashes, although Alec Stewart and Graham Gooch do not match their cricketing talent with the microphone.
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The one who needs to go is Vic Marks... he was a journeyman player who only got where he did becuase he was public-school -Peter May (the head of selection at the time) had a thing for his type.
And hearing him recently make such a passionate case for Paul Harris (the SA attempts-to-spin-it) was utter pap!
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If we're on the subject of TMS voices, could I add my congratulations to Tuffers for his stints during the final SA test?
OK, sophisticated he isn't, but I thought he gelled very well with the team and he is of course a raconteur of note. Much better than Alec Stewart.
Phil has had his detractors round and about this blog; I for one think they're totally unjustified. More, please!
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I've no great problems with Mark Pougatch, although I am sad to see Mike Selvey go. There are others who'd be much higher on my personal hit list!
Am I the only one who think Boycott is the biggest liability? Some love him, other hate him - but he's very divisive and hence distracts from coverage that all can enjoy. He's becoming more and more a self parody - and the only one who makes me switch channel as soon as he goes off on one of his self-absorbed rants.
I'd rather listen to occasional updates on the apparently dumbed down Radio 5 than suffer Boycott for any length of time!
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This blog is very much appreciated, however, I would just like to state for the record that "Selvers" has been an absolute joy to listen to over the years, mixing his knowledge and experience with a dry wit and honesty that can only come from a Guardian cricket writer.
Mike thanks, and we will miss you.
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I have enjoyed the many varied talents of your TMS commentary team over many years of listening.
It is good that changes can be made to the various members. It saves anyone going stale or not everyone is always available for every broadcast around the world.
It is also good that you can use cricketing people who are better commentators, reporters than players.
May I suggest one person in this category, who I always enjoy listening to on Radio Nottingham or Leicester and that is John Shaw. John comes out with some wonderful lines and comments in his reports.
Maybe there will be a chance for him some day.
Certainly better to listen to than Geoffrey "I am the best" Boycott.
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TMS beats the hell out of the appalling Sky Sports commentary. Gower as presenter...?...Bob Willis? Botham?...It's enough to make you want to turn the TV to mute!
The difference is where you use to get a journalist/interviewer commentating with an ex player, his skills were to bring answers/views out of the ex cricketer. Unfortunately when you have a commentary team solely made up of ex players who cant string a sentence together let alone bring the game to life it becomes slightly dull. I'm not blaming the ex players, as making the game interesting whilst talking all day is no easy feat, it's just i think that the selection of presenters/commentators should be not purely base on whether you've played for England or not.
Just an example, imagine Michael Parkinson leading the commentary...he'd be able to make Bob Willis a million more times interesting than he currently is.
Anyway, TMS is currently hugely superior to any other cricketing commentary, let?s hope it remains so.
I also agree with one of the other blogs regarding Simon Hughes, he would also make a good addition to the team.
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I thought I was the only one who thought Boycott was a liability. Good to know I am not alone.
You had the chance to remove him and chose Selvey? Well I think it was a big mistake to ever have this playground bully. I don't like people who stir just to get a reaction.
Marks and Fraser are sublime and Tuffers very informative and all are warm human beings. Keep them coming....
Thanks
Jessica
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Hi Adam
Thanks for the opportunity to add some more thoughts to the vipers nest that your earlier post prodded!
Firstly thanks for the positive response to my request for coverage of the Lions match ? I hope you can manage to achieve this.
Secondly I feel that some of the comments on the other blog and indeed the Telegraph article are somewhat venomous in content ? I really don?t believe that calling you an idiot is TMS language and I would hope that the majority of the other fans would agree, this is not about getting personal but protecting a much loved institution. It is however the price we seem to have pay for the freedom to blog ?
However, in spite of your spirited defence of the changes that have occurred over the few years - me thinks thou doth protest too much.
Yes I accept and agree the need for change and for bringing in new blood especially with more games being played and you being the only place that non Sky subscribers can get their willow fix.
The key then is not the need to change, but to manage the change slowly , carefully and within the spirit of the existing culture of the organisation. Businesses have learnt to their cost over many years that mergers/takeovers fail because of the importance of managing cultures have been overlooked. I know you say that there has been no 5livication (good term however came up with it) but I think the very strength of the comments made to date would make you realise that your customers (and bosses) disagree.
In terms of specifics on some of the commentators / summarisers:-
Whilst I like Graham Gooch and Alec Stewart for their knowledge of the game, I feel that their various commercial interests get in the way of their objectivity ? Gooch bigs up the Essex Boys all the time as does Alex those he represents as manager ? remember this is the BBC ! Perhaps you could find other equally qualified lest partisan participants.
I do have to agree with the general view that Mark Pougatch has not been a great success ? he may have more of a cricket background than we thought, but let me put it this way ? he hides it well! More important is his style we want commentators to ?paint a picture? not rattle stats (that?s Bill?s Job) and interview the summarisers.
Arlo is getting better, as is Alison, but they have a long way to go but if I get my way and you do more Lions games (and even overseas warmup games?) then they make the grade
On the Positives of newer people ? I think Simon Mann is getting good, Tuffers was fantastic, Graham Thorpe Excellent ? definitely need him for the Ashes.
As for the old guard ? Blowers may have lost a few yards of pace (or is that miles) but is still irreplaceable. Aggers is still top draw even if he is turning into a grumpy old man before our eyes ? Jonathan if you are not careful you will soon be as grumpy as Gus (Still good) . CMJ Late as usual. Vic more please.
And the there is Geoffrey ? the TMS version of Marmite you love him or hate him, or in my case both! Aggers winding him up priceless ? Ego annoying ? you choose.
I was going to do a presenter score card as well but I think I have droned on too much already
Bottom line we all care massively about TMS and look to you to preserve it for the next generation, whilst entertaining us along the way.
Thanks
MGB
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I listen to cricket because I want to listen to cricket commentary.
While I don't doubt that the "new boys" have the enthusiasm for the job, it's clear they don't love cricket, having a "passing interest" isn't good enough. Aggers or CMJ could be talking about Alice in Wonderland and we'd still be picking up the atmosphere and energy of the test match. By all means, I think the new commentators have a place on the 50/20 over game, but to keep an audience enthusiastic and interested without pictures for 5 days (sometimes when not much is happening) it's crucial that we feel that the commentary team actually cares one way or the other.
To commentate on a test match on the radio I don't think you can come from commentating on football or another sport now.
Tuffers and Shaun Pollock have been top quality however.
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I don't actually think that when a player played is relevant to how effective they are as a summarizer. Selvey has a deep, passionate knowledge of the game, which has developed over the years. Surely the job of a summarizer is to comment on the subtleties and nuances of the game not how well their ex colleagues and mates are doing. Alec Stewart and Tuffnell , good a players as they were, are still too close to the curent players to be completely objective. It was obvious to all that Alec was holding back in some of his comments, as was Tuffers.
I don't object to the introduction of new commentors, Adam - Simon Mann is fine, just don't try and pull the wool over our eyes with the 'couple of more current names' viewpoint, especially when you contradict yourself with the continued inclusion of Boycott and Marks.
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There is, of course, the point that notwithstanding his immense first hand knowledge, the egocentric Boycott, is yet another repetitive whinging Yorkshireman in the long line of Illingworth, Trueman and Close.
He seems to keep his most positive pronouncements for his Channel 5 stint.
Can I nominate him as next for the chop?
And I would support the addition of Simon Hughes to the team to replace him.
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Not so much dumbing-down, perhaps, as giving-way to the cult of celebrity?
Great cricketers rarely make good commentators or summarisers. It is as if, having been blessed with a natural, instinctive ability to play the game, the task of analysing play and explaining it to others less gifted - preferably in a way that is entertaining and accessible - is alien to them.
As a player, Mike Selvey was never really a cricketing celebrity but his work at the microphone has always been informative and entertaining. Compare that with the hot air (all heat and no light) produced by the cricketing celeb that is G. Boycott and I fear that TMS is being steered in a worrying direction.
True, the programme needs to evolve; perhaps it is right to bring-in 'recent' players (like Phil Tufnell) to sit alongside the likes of Jonathan Agnew and CMJ. It's just that I can't help thinking that if JA and CMJ were starting-out now, they wouldn't get a look-in from Mr Mountford.
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Re Post 13
Apologies for the punctuation - it appears that hyphens, apostrophises, inverted comers and exclamation marks all got turned into question marks by the wonders that is technologies
MGB
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Thanks for the explanation, better than other arms of the beeb!
To be fair you will always get stick and I think you know that, some listeners need to learn to accept that the world moves on.
As for my little thoughts, I am not sold on Mark yet although he is a quality jurno and more than likely needs time to settle, Tuffers is a TMS legend in the making him and Blowers together would be great if bizarre!
Aggers, Vic and Arlo are top draw more so when winding Boycott up (I do like him, moaning old git that he is,). Stewart and his agent links worry me slightly.
Good job all round, keep it up.
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Thanks for taking the time to make these comments, Adam. It's a shame that over-excited and curmudgeonly journalists, along with the usual straggle of internet-message-board-trawling misanthropes, have put you in the position where you feel that you have to explain yourself.
I always read these blogs and comments, but never post myself: but I thought I should do so on this occasion, to give you a reassuring pat on the shoulder and let you know that the silent majority of listeners out there appreciate your continued stewardship of TMS.
Over the past year, the programme has evolved naturally and comfortably, with the introduction of fresh voices and ideas that were frankly essential. Without the gentle innovations and assimilation of new blood, then these boards would have been full of folk moaning about how TMS had ossified and the 'new man' in charge feared change.
I feel that TMS retains the core traditional elements of clear commentary, entertaining banter, educational observations and informative expert opinion. It also is attracting a new audience of young cricket fans who haven't had the privilege of seeing the game live or on TV, and who like the current mix of authoritative analysis and playful jabber: as a secondary school teacher who talks to sports-mad teenagers every day, I know that they value TMS. When I was a boy, I was put off by what I perceived to be the stuffy air of a gentleman's club which I had no right to enter.
Adam, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't; I admire your honesty and hope that you continue to do what you - as a cricket lover and professional broadcaster - feel works.
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Thank goodness for TMS and computers, which keep adopted Canadians in touch which cricket. That Boycott can get under your skin is obvious but if you can set aside his ego there is often a depth of cricket insight there, which we don't get with Tuffers for example. Tuffers' light-hearted approach is a great relief after a Boycott session but where Tufnell falls short is in his cricketing knowledge, comments about which do not seem to come as naturally to him as his more light-hearted observations! I was extremely impressed with the patience shown by CMJ the other day as Boycott went off on one of his rants and CMJ hardly had time to describe the next delivery! Stewart and Gooch, though good cricketers, are uninspiring as commentators as they were captains. I recall in Wellington, NZ airport, Gooch behind Mickey Stewart leading his team single-file across the airport concourse into a secluded area. It epitomised his narrow military style and caused much mirth! It will be a pity to see Mike Selvey go and why him and not Vic Marks, for example? Who will replace him from "more recent test cricketers" with as good a use of language coupled with the cricketing insight he provides? Noone from the recent crop comes to mind. Whatever you do keep Blowers and what happened to Graham Fowler, one of my favourites!
My Boycott-like rant would be about the unavailability of TMS in the winter, which is long enough in Canada without cricketing relief! Cannot the BBC negotiate something, even if only for us Internet users??! Cricinfo just doesn't cut it!
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I dont know how Alec Stewart and Graham Gooch can be considered superior to Mike Selvey in terms of talent.
Also, as previous post says, they are far too close still to the current game.
The incestuous trend in journalism these days - seen especially in football - where today's managers/players are yesterday's and tomorrow's pundits leads to a tedious lack of critical analysis. Nothing can be said that can possibly be taken as offensive. The more "recent voices" that crop up on TMS, the more this debilitating disease will infect the airwaves.
PS - apart from GB, who I agree is becoming a bit of a parody, I cant think of any great English commentators who had also had a distinguished test career.
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This was a very spirited defence by Mr.Mountford; nevertheless, my feeling about dumbing down is shared by a number of other listeners.
I understand the resistance to change/moving the furniture arguments, but the fact is good commentating is an art: some have it and some don't.
However accomplished Mark Pougatch is, he simply sounded wrong on TMS - it may not be the right programme for him.
Tuffers has been a complete pleasure (whilst, regrettably, Messrs. Stewart and Gooch have not).
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Iwould welcome any so called expert to the TMS TEAM as long as they have the good sense to criticise the diabolical decision to recall Harmison to the test side.Atherton was 100 per cent right in saying that Harmison,s international record over the past two years has been woeful,and that the selectors decision had given completely the wrong message.Harmison,s attitude has been a disgrace with his sense of national pride virtually non existent.I applaud Atherton for speaking out publicly about an overated,bloated ego who should never have been considered for selection.Let,s hope that Mike Selvey,s successor has the guts to speak his mind in the way Atherton has.
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Personally - I don't mind the changes that are being made to TMS. I can't say I like the roving reporter idea much but it's tolerable. To me - the issue has to be variation. Nobody could stand listening to the same voice all day even if that were humanly possible. Commentators commentate in different ways and that's fine. Personally I've never been a fan of Blowers but he obviously has his fans - fair enough - I can switch off for 20 mins when he comes on.
I'd also like to say that in my opinion a commentator has to have either (or both) of the following attributes:
1) A great knowledge of the game based on experience. This differs from a great knowledge based on watching which is why journalists seldom make good commentators.
or
2) Be very listenable to. This is obviously subjective as I said earlier - I find Blowers very hard to listen to. Arlott was brilliant as was Alan Gibson and Neville Oliver.
Mike Selvey played a handful of tests (just 2 if I remember rightly) and I didn't find him particularly listenable to so I'm glad he's gone.
Aggers at least is listenable to even if, to be honest, I don't really think he has a great knowledge of the game. I know that's a controversial remark given he played county cricket for years but it's my honest opinion. It's not the technical areas knowing what a flipper is or where point is - rather he doesn't really know much about playing internationally - his int'l career ended less than 12 months after it started and he didn't play that many games!
CMJ is by far my favourite as he has brilliant knowledge and I love his voice. There are no buses, no fuss with him - he's eloquent, somewhat poetic at times, knowledgable and accurate.
I've no problem with the newer voices either like Tuffers with his phrases like "moolered" of "feng shui'd". Nobody could say that Tuffers didn't know the game. One of the greatest cricket brains of all time, Nasser Hussain, rated Tuffers opinions highly.
Long live TMS and providing the right commentators are selected - and I think they probably are now Selvey's gone and Tuffers and Stewart are recruited - I think it will.
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There has been no moderation of Jonathan Agnew,s comments supporting Harmison,s recall to the test side.Why then moderate comments that argue against the inclusion of Harmison? TMS is not just about humerous,jovial banter.It,s also about serious,constructive criticism.Please have the courage to respect and publish such criticism,otherwise,ther,s simply no point to any sort of debate whatsover.
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I feel I should leap to Graham Gooch's defense here. He's often done excellent stints on TMS, especially when holding the fort during a rain break. He's a shrewd and astute observer of the game.
Vic Marks is a natural at the mike, and it truly would be a national disgrace if he were to go. I have faith that this won't happen for a considerable time yet :)
Tuffers - amusing yes, but I don't think he should be over-used. Save him as a treat for one or two matches in a season.
TMS is a rare and precious thing. I feel cautiously optimistic after reading Mr Mountford's reply. Fortunately we're still able to benefit from Mike Selvey's wisdom in his excellent Guardian articles but I still feel that it was mistake to drop him.
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Boycott Bashing?
He may be arrogant but he is highly entertaining.
I love it when he starts to rant and rave and has ding dongs with other commentators.
Phil Tuffnell is another good choice who provides a plucky and glorious ying to the pompous and dusty yang that often pervades TMS.
I would like to nominate Mark Steel for status as honoury commentator.
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As an avid fan of TMS of many years standing, I must say that I have not taken to the voice of Simon Mann. I like the newer commentators like Arlo White, Mark Pougatch and Russel Fuller and as Mr Mountford says in his statement we need a range of contibutors to the programme, but I hope that Mr Mann isn't one of them.Nothinf personal, just don't care for the resonation and tone of is voice.That's all.
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What a load of absolute rubbish, Mr Mountford, your comments are an insult to the readers of this blog and the programme's listeners. To say that Mark Pougatch is the only newer commentators to have worked on TMS this summer is disingenuous at best and simply untrue at worst; Simon Mann is a newer commentator, Do you really think that Shaun Pollock "made a very encouraging debut this summer"? You have to be joking. Pollock's insights such as "he'll be disappointed with that shot" are depressing. He's been ghastly, a pointless addition. Finally, Alec Stewart, as agent to some of the players, should not be allowed near the TMS box. Are you not aware of the phrase 'conflict of interest'?
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Adam Mountford writes "Some have asked why there is a need to find new voices at all. Well the answer to that is that we have to! The growing amount of cricket that the BBC covers simply cannot be covered by the core team."
The answer - reduce the size of the team by getting rid of one of the most intelligent and knowledgable contributors to the programme.
Is it me, or is the logic not quite right.
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Please thank Mr. Mark Pougatch for his past work on TMS, but _do_ show him the door. His commentating style is not suitable for Test Match cricket. Whenever he takes to microphone, I switch off the radio off!
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I love TMS, and dont have many problems with it. You have a good mix, and all commentators are excellent as far as im concerned.
Current and retired players are absolutly brilliant, Shaun Pollock, Graeme Swann, etc.
I was listening to twenty finals day, and a game before that, and i think Jason Gillespie is your man for the Ashes next year. Funny as well as some great points. Remember to book your resort in Ma-yorkca.
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I agree that it's good to get an explanation even if it is more of a PR one, than defensible to cross examination.
I think Stewart should be banned for ever from TMS. His comments are platitudinous and don't reflect his ability as a player. The way he has been allowed to push Prior and Ambrose (under his management) has been scandalous, and Mountford owes us an apology for not sorting this out. He has done a huge disservice to English cricket as I am sure he has been a key lubricant of the bandwagon which has got Prior back - when as a keeper it has to be either Read or Foster. Personally I find Gooch dull (as per his batting !), and am sure you can find someone more insightful.
Tuffers has been much better than I expected, and Simon Mann is fine. Undecided on Pougatch. I do agree that Simon Hughes would be a good addition.
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The defensiveness of these remarks speaks volumes. I have no problem whatsoever with new commentators; Simon Mann is a fine addition. But Mr Pougatch's 'breathless' and inane commentary, to be blunt, is wholly at odds with the flavour of TMS; his receipt of a TMS tie must stand as the lowpoint of the cricket season.
I also agree with those who question the continued inclusion of Alec Stewart as a summariser. What do his 'remarks' contribute? I agree that, ideally, it would be nice to include at least one relatively recent Test player in the commentary team; unfortunately, as they are trained to speak pablum, they can't or won't ruffle any feathers, there are no options at 'Test' level.
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wow is being compared to radio 5 so bad? yes! and you made such a fist at denying any link that one can only think the producer doth protest too much
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Boycott and Agnew are the thoughts and style on the program. CMJ, Blowers etc are legends and should remain.
Boycott is loved and hated because he is willing to say what he thinks/feels without thought of whom he may upset - he will always have critics for this and he is a rare breed. To lose someone who genuinely says it how it is would be a travesty.
Agnew has become the gel that sticks it all together.
I love TMS, its as good taday as its always been.
If it aint broke - dont fix it!
Monty, Croesyceiliog CC, Wales
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Thanks for the comments so far.
Just to answer a couple of the points raised.
Mikey on Post 33 mentions that Simon Mann is a "newer commentator". He has been part of the TMS team for twelve years.
He also mentions concerns about Alec Stewart and possible conflicts of interest.
Alec is a player with great stature in the game and his opinion is based on his 133 tests as an England player. Alec makes it very clear that he is never influenced by any involvement with players , although obviously the greater insight he gains through working with current members of the England side can be valuable to our coverage.
Alec will equally offer praise or criticism to players he is involved with or not involved with. For example last summer at the Oval Alec made the point that one of the players he's worked with Matt Prior , had a serious technical flaw as a wicketkeeper which would have to be worked on.
And in answer to Andy on post 34. On TMS we generally have commentators who describe each delivery and expert summarisers who comment . I was making the point that the core team of commentators has to be added to in order to cover the amount of extra cricket being played. We are fortunate to have lots of excellent summarisers to call upon at the moment.
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I think Boycott is a tremendous entertainer, and doggedly insightful too. I have been listening since the '70s and it really doesn't matter if you love him or hate him, he can be counted on to liven up proceedings. I don't think that there can be any doubt that losing Selvey is a change for the worse, or that the change was made for the reasons people fear. Selvey should know why it's happened, after all. Mr. Mountford doth protest too much.
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A poor, overlong and highly defensive article. It almost seems that Mr Mountford knows that it is a disgrace to get rid of someone like Mike Selvey, an intelligent, in sightful commentator, and is doing his utmost to justify a bad decision. He says this was not an easy decision, but my question is why was it considered at all? The Tms team has done its usual fine job recently, so why get rid of one of its stalwarts? Soon the TMS box will probably be filled with jobsworths, and will indeed be just like five live. A disgraceful decison, and the pathetic justifications for it cut no ice with me. Mr Mountford is obviously more interested in style than substance.
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I like most of the summarisers, not really sure about Tufnell, abit too ladish for my taste. Wondering why Gooch never did a test this summer for TMS, I like his commentary, much more gentler in analysis than Boycott and more saner! and miss his jousting with Agnew. I hope you have not axed him like Selvey? Have to agree with everyone else about Pougatch and White, however Simon Mann is a good addition to the commentators.
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Good blog Adam, thank you for it.
Firstly - I've heard it all now, someone who doesn't rate Vic Marks!
To be honest you can't win can you. If Henry Blowfeld commentates then you get people saying he is past it and is no good.
When you use Mark Pougatch or Arlo White people complain they are no good and don't know the game.
Basically it comes to this - each to their own.
I have to echo your comment though Adam, I was going to say exactly the same thing about Simon Mann (my personal favoruite) - he has been on TMS since 1996!
I totally understand where you are coming from, the amount of cricket you cover these days is a lot more than in the past and of course you need a bigger team across all forms.
One day Blowers and CMJ will retire and Aggers can't do the whole match by himself!
One point I want to make at this point is that it should be noted that Arlo White was given his test match commentary debut by Peter Baxter and in Adam Mountford's first full season in charge he didn't get a test.
I'm pleased to hear you will be using Simon Hughes again this winter, that is good news.
I would like to see Graham Gooch back on TMS next season.
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I have to agree with those who aren't fans of Mark Pougatch. I like him hosting the 5 Live Saturday afternoon show, and that's where he should stay.
Dumbing down may be a bit harsh, but the roving reporter thing is rather tedious and doesn't really add anything, in my opinion.
What a shame about Mike Selvey's departure. He'll be missed. I'd rather keep him and lose Vic Marks, who rarely fails to irritate the life out of me.
I'm surprised that some don't rate Gooch. Apart from seeing things through Essex tinted spectacles, I think he's very good. He's not afraid to give his opinions and does so in a less blunt manner than G Boycott.
I have to add that CMJ brings such an air of cricketing authority to proceedings, he's a joy to listen to.
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Count me amongst those that can't stand Boycott - his one-note moaning about everything he sees as wrong with the modern game is tiresome and annoying.
More Jeremy Coney, please!
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I love TMS and have enjoyed the coverage this summer just as much as before. Tufnell and Pollock have been fantastic debutants and the old guard of Aggers, Blowers, Vic Marks etc has been as good as ever.
However, I do have to agree that Mark Pougatch is just dull to listen to-- I have even taken to following the score on the live text on the web whilst he's on-- and that on occassion Boycott has been unbearable this year. A little bit of criticism where due is fine, but Geoffery's consistent criticism and 'it was never like that in my day' view are worse than tedious.
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I listen to TMS for perceptive comments re the sport and debate re the direction it is going in.
Quite frankly while you allow a certain out of date duffer who knows all about wine, sweden, golf and red double decker buses
( note they were all phased out eons ago by the way ) his credibility on TMS is zero.
He can't get half the players names right, the positions they are in nor some times their nationality.
I pay my lience for his dribble - I suggest you put him into one of his own wheely bins!!!
THIS WOULN'T BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN ON ANY OTHER SPORTS PROGRAMME...or is the truth the BBC doesn't give a stuff as since they think the core audience is the 3,000 retired colonels in Eastbourne ?????
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Why is "newer" or "younger" always considered better?
Mike Selvey is far more interesting and insightful than dull, miserable Angus Fraser or the equally boring Gooch and Stewart.
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I#ve listened to TMS since i was a youngster and it makes summer for me. Like everybody else, i enjoy certain commentators and summarisers and have always wondered Adam how you choose the commentators for particular test matches ie sometimes it can be Blowers then CMJ then Simon Mann etc etc.
I accept that with time comes change; fresh ideas, fresh voices. The loss of Mike Selvey is a pity for me and i accept that people take time to bed in as commentators and summarisers but i have always believed only change if the people who replace can offer more than the people they are replacing.
I'd love to see TMS publish Views from the Boundary on the website regulary as downloads in fact im amazed they've never published them on disc for people to buy - View from the Boundary is iconic radio listening and should never be removed from the TMS schedules
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I agree with many of the comments above along the lines of "he doth protest too much". The so-called justification about no longer using Mike Selvey is completely unconvincing. Selvey is an extremely articulate and intelligent observer of the game, and the combination of insight and experience he offers makes him far better able to present a player's perspective than either CMJ or Blowers.
The following comment, in particular, is extraordinary:
"There has been some comment about newer commentators not knowing enough about the game. I go back to my comment earlier about the importance of a mix within the TMS team."
Do you mean to imply that ignorance about the game is good for "the mix"? That is as good as an admission that the intention re newer commentators is precisely to dumb down TMS. (Added to which, pretending that this vacuous spin answers the objection adds insult to injury.)
Maybe making Selvey TMS Producer would be a better idea!
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As a twentysomething listener of TMS, I suspect that the dismissal of Mike Selvey is aimed at the likes of me and frankly, I don't care that he's gone - nor would I have been bothered had he stayed. His insights were interesting but rarely unique and he never seemed to have the depth of personality on show by the other commentators.
Although I love Tuffers, he is not man enough for the job - the same is true of Graham Thorpe I suspect although I hope I'm wrong. Stewart and Gooch battle it out for most monotonous speakers on any radio wave, let alone 198LW.
As for Boycott, he's a prat, but Agnew constantly winding him up is hilarious.
Pougatch never allows himself to be washed over by the TMS reverie, but Arlo White is definitely promising as first-change.
As for Simon Hughes...is it me, or was he the best thing when C4 had the cricket and then seemed to disappear for ages, only popping up for a bit of air. The guy is witty, knowledgeable and seems o understand the way cricket has to change and adapt for the future. He's a legend already and his autobiography is a blinding read as well.
My only fear is that, come the end of the season, the one and only Dazzler Gough will be regarded as a brilliant addition to the TMS team as he has so much yoof appeal. The only thing yooful about Gough is his maturity, which is probably that of a 13-year-old.
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I'm sorry but notwithstanding Alec Stewart's ability as a summariser (I'm not a fan) he is totally unacceptable as a TMS regular given the conflict of interest with his position as an agent
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Adam, despite my parents havign Sky installed, I have barely watched it over the last year. TMS is far more entertaining and delivers far more real cricketing knowledge than all the slow-motion replays and slow motion commentators on Sky Sports.
I would be worried if TMS followed the Sky Sports route and picked ex-players purely as pundits. There are very few distinctive commentary voices on Sky. The football is dreadful and still nobody beats John Motson and others on the BBC. TMS has the blend perfectly. Shaun Pollock was excellent this summer, the Kiwi tour was an absolute riot and dragging Phil Tufnell into the box was brilliant as it showed the other side to Tuffers. He is a bit of a larrikin but he's also got a lot of cricketing knowledge in that mind of his (he knew Michael Lynagh's nickname at uni! Awesome stuff!)
People here are worried about TMS being dumbed down because so much else within the BBC has been dumbed down since the Hutton Inquiry. The forums are moderated like hawks. The BBC1 news broadcasts are getting increasingly Americanized and juvenile. Documentaries are less in evidence on the major BBC channels. TMS going down that route would be a very sad state of affairs. TMS is an absolute lifeline for the cricket fan who doesn't wish to have their mind turned into a retarded heap by the Sky crew (much as I live David Lloyd and Michael Holding, listening to Mr Botham for longer than a half hour always ends in a violent bowel movement in protest).
Long live TMS.
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as someone who has listened to TMS for a number of years i would like to issue with those who question alec stewarts so called conflict of interest. i find it interesting listening to his views and as someone who was in the dressing room just a few years ago he is in no way biased towards his own players. he agreed with the dropping of prior for the nz series and on his blogs has criticised bell and collingwood. he was a fine player and is now doing a fine job with tms
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Jonathan Agnew is God, Geoffrey the Devil. Could you wish for more gripping radio?
Well - there could be a test match going on.
-- oh there is. Brilliant.
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I have listened to TMS for more years than I care to remember and I do not think that the programme has in any way "dumbed down"-horrible expression by the way.
I would say though that I do find the commentary of CMJ and Blowers a concern.This is because of the player identification mistakes that are becoming increasingly common,and also errors made in giving out the individual and team scores.Indeed sometimes the score is not given out at all for long periods.Accuracy of information is vital to the radio listener.
Simon Mann is my favourite commentator,and listening to Jeremy Coney was a joy this summer.Boycs is always entertaining,but do tell Jonathan Agnew to cheer up a little bit.All in all, though keep up the great work.
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Good to see Jeremy Coney get a mention. He is, without doubt, the most erudite and compelling summariser of a match of cricket that I have heard in a long time.
Always an absolute pleasure to listen to what he has to say whether it be on TMS or Sky.
Can we have him for summers other than those which involve the Kiwis??
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58 - you are spot on. TMS is very much alive and moving forward in the right direction. Adam Mountford the producer is doing a good job - keep it going. Aggers, Blowers, Tuffers, Stewey and the rest of the team are a joy. well done.
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Thanks for taking note of comments mr mountford, surely confirming what you already knew that tms has a wide and passionate following. I feel more or less reassured about the program's future (especially regarding the inclusion of Simon Hughes), and though I feel maybe you could have been a little less hasty in putting so many younger ex players straight into the test match commentary while they still lack the broadcasting abilities of someone such as Mike Selvey, (with the exeption of Tuffers who fits right in), and could have slotted them into the one dayers, i can kindve to an extent understand your reasoning for some newer cricketing experts, (although I would prefer it if they were a little more charismatic). I also think mark pougatche's more intense, yet less descriptive 5 live style of commentary would work much better in the faster one day game, where more energy and less cricketing thoughts are required, and would therefore place him only in 50 and 20 over commentary teams. A few cracks have apperared in very recent tms coverage, but as long as this blog is not simply an attempt to paper over them, and you care about preserving the future and tradition of Test match special, then keep up the good work.
ps: why not try cricket reporter to 5live, pat murphy, who I think could fit right into commentary, in the same way as the excellent Simon Mann.
pps: everybody hates boycott. But most people love to hate him. I think his annoying to the point of humorous negativity is entertaining, especially with Aggers answering back. But still im glad there isnt two of him.
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Having just found out that Mike Selvey is leaving, (has been pushed), I would just like to express my thanks to him for doing such a good job, and being a fine contributor to the programme over the years.
I too feel that we must NEVER allow a 5 live attitude to pervade TMS. I'm quite sure it wont happen in the next decade, but as for the long term I'm not as hopeful, when the likes of Aggers, Blowers and CMJ move on, where are the quintessentially Radio 4 LW English, 'small c' conservatives that make cricket and of course, TMS what it is.
(I say this as a non-conservative, liberal minded, guardian reader!)
Finally, I would also endorse the comments about Graham Gooch!!!! - i.e.. who should play for england?.. Gooch's response - Inevitably, Bopara, Foster, Napier ad infinitum.. It's just ridiculous. Even though I highly respect him as an ex England captain and a deep and reasonable thinker about the game. Just have a word with him.
Finally.. who remembers Foxey Fowler?.. Some people just move on..
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I regret the loss of Mike Selvey, and some other recent developments. T.M.S., and its presenters, should have a certain gravitas. It is vital that a commentator or summariser should not be so taken with working in the media that they become slightly over-excited. Indeed, they are better to listen to if they radiate a healthy disdain for the broadcasting process which is, after all, secondary to the cricket. Mark Pougatch is a fine example of what is not wanted- slick, fast-talking and improbable. Please guard against feigned excitement, and an increasing tendency to focus on trivia.
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Cheers Adam, some good areas; its great to have you writing these pieces regularly.
I feel so embarrassingly and shamefully English to be writing in about the state of TMS, which i do feel is in good health.
Just a couple of quieres/ points. I am just wondering why you have to make this sudden decleration that you and Selvey have parted ways. it seems to me to be the case that perhaps you dont want to be cascaded as a conservative stick in the mud; hense your attempt at making a big decsion in sacking him? I do not understand why you merly could not have kept Mike on, albeit not covering as many games as he used to.
I think TMS has been good this summer. Tuffers is a legend, and he in fact does offer a surprsing amount of valued insight, to go with his undoubtadly delightful offbeat demenoaur.
I like as well Pougach, i recall after his 1st test people were generally poisitve about him.
Boycott though is infuriating after a while. You could be kind to him, and not tell him your sacking him, but just put him in a room all day, and tell him he is broadcasting to the nation; he'd be none the wiser and very content.
I do have to say though that if you get rid of Selvey for the likes of Gooch and Stewart, stop it. Both of them are bland and do not have inquistive and irrelvant sense of humour to make a slow session of cricket intersting.
Everbody else is awesome. Particualry Viv Marks, if you ever get rid of Victor to replace him with the young potential, I will set myself on fire. He is a great broadcaster and does not speak in the dreary bray assocaited with so many new ex players summersiers, after theve come out of some crappy media study course.
In general Adam good job, hope you gave Mike a good leaving preasent
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The decision to dismiss Mike Selvey - I use the cricketing term for fear the BBC suggest it is an exaggerated term, is in my opinion one that needs revisiting. Why?
We are the BBC funders. We pay the wages of the TMS Team and others at the BBC. We provide the comfy chairs for the BBC Trustees, the offices of the DG, the tea and biscuits for the Green Room and the salary of Adam Mounftord and other decision makers. They never say thank you. Jonners of course was a man of courtesy, thanking everyone for everything. The listeners were thanked for their cakes and recipes, their observations and this has been continued by CMJ Aggers et al because they know what it is to commentate to observe and indeed to laugh at themselves.
When you lose or don't even have to begin with, the skill of articualtion, of comment, and self depreciation then management is not an easy task. Mr Mountford needs to look at the level of anger and upset at the dismissal of Selvey and re-examine his decision and selection. He should do this out of obedience to the licence payer and be brave enough to admit that perhaps his decision needs to be reviewed and possibly undone. Selectors have had to do it so the BBC is no different.
The level of critiscim about the changes suggest that a proper listener consultation is needed. Let's have a questionnaire that asks what we want, who we like and don't like and the reasons for it. Ensure it is not internet exclusive and perhaps encourage the ECB etc to be involved. More interest more listeners more BBC input and then justification for changes and improvements.
It took some getting used to realising that TMS was also on Five Live Extra, but it has not been dumbed down. It needs to appeal to a wider audience and marketing is key to this. Arlo White was brilliant covering the 2020 games. He brought passion to the airwaves. Alison Mitchell is a joy to listen to, as is Simon Hughes. All these bring a sure compliment to established figures such as CMJ Aggers Blowers Marks et al. Everyone needs a Boycott and a Tuffers, use them well and it will be a success. As for Mark Pougatch give him time to warm up as Cricket is very different to studio presenting, and other sporting commentary. Perhaps we need a Cricket Commentator's Academy?
All in all changes ae necessary for improvement and development. The arguments for the dismissal of Selvey do not add up. Replacement for retirement, illness is understandable, but just to give way to another voice who may be in need of training is not a good management decision. Ithas been stated that coerage is increasing so wy drop experience if it works well and is appreciated?
If the selectors deem that you are not scoring or hitting the wicket then you lose your place. Selvey on TMS proved his right to be there. Other haven't proved their right but remain. TMS Lsteners are the selectors but sadly have no voice, Mr Mountford should be answerable not through a blog but by facts and state how his decisions and selections are made. Then he can be a worthy captain or producer of TMS.
One can always appeal to the BBC Trustees and DG and demand a proper examination of what is happening. We do pay the wages after all.
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Thanks for responding to the uprising. You job can't always be fun!
I was gobsmacked to learn that for all seven Tests this year only the regular TMS commentators were used, with the exception of Mr. Pougatch. My perception of the summer was entirely different. In fact, I would have bet money that Arlo White and even Mark Saggers had taken a turn. Perhaps it was the use of so many different and new summarisers that made the show sound different.
Trying out new people in one-day games makes sense, especially with more of them to cover all the time. But my reaction to the summer -- which I suspect from other comments is not unique -- suggests that letting the standard for one-day games fall too low just hurts your brand.
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selvey was always informative and i'm sad to see him go. Poogers has not done anything to impress me on tv and radio really. i agree with those talking about tuffers. he is a real different foil and even makes my cricket hating girlfriend laugh.
will keep reading selv in the guardian. good luck to him
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I don't quite understand why this blog explains that to cover all the current forms of cricket then a large number of presenters are needed yet a greatly loved one has just been let go.
The best cricket commentator of all time is Mark Nicholas. I wish he fronted TMS.
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I am very sad that Mike Selvey has gone. He is way better than gooch and stewart and he certainly has a much nice voice to listen to. I think the BBC is more concerned with super star cricket names rather than excellent broadcasters.
It is very sad that test caps are deemed more important than broadcasting!
Shame on you BBC...
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Sir Geoffey Boycott is the best thing about TMS and Aggers is TMS as far as I am concerned. However i will say I have been pleasantly surprised by how good tuffers has been. Completely unexpected that. The rest of them i can take or leave.
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Im with EDclark on this, i do enjoy hearing the ex players and their views on the games, but just because they're ex pro's doesn't make them great talkers or observers... we need more sports journalists like Inverdale asking the questions as they know how to get the best out of their guests... Its all too easy to go with celebrity when they dont bring anything to the table. Just look at the direction of MOTD... Whoever had the brainwave that Lee Dixon was a good talker, let alone showing us an insight other than good or bad play should be shot at dawn for two weeks. Im just thinking of all the really capable journo's in your newsroom who would love the chance of bringing the best out of guests...
As a whole the Beeb is dumbing down, look at its news output in comparison to ITN. It took Channel four bidding and winning coverage to wake broadcasters up... Please please please, dont let middle management rot happen to TMS... It makes my time at work with cricinfo worthwhile.
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Pay top Aussie Dollar and Bring back Richie B! Where's that sarni!
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Reading all of the above actually makes me feel sorry for you Adam. There are positive and negative comments for almost very single commentator and summariser. You can't please 'em all!
Except for Jeremy Coney. Everybody loved him. Get him to emigrate to the UK right away!
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How sad and unnecessary to see Selvey depart. I'll miss his laconic, erudite summarising. Mountford needs to be seen making his mark, but please don't dumb down what is a classic programme. Tufnell and co are fine, but only in small doses. Don't tailor the programme for the under thirties.
Pougatch hasn't quite been up to the mark and obviously his knowledge of cricket isn't thorough enough. Of the younger commentators/summarisers Simon Mann seems the best.
Stewart and Thorpe are especially poor with their dull, anodyne slightly depressive voices. Good players they were but for the wonderful TMS box, no thanks. Gooch and Pollock aren't great either. Any chance of a recall for Foxy Fowler ?
Thank goodness for Aggers, CMJ, Fraser, Marks, Coney and Boycott. Selvey's sacking is not a good move. Mountford's piece gives the feeling that he needs to justify everything.
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I can see the future and its Five Live smooth talking American twang presenters.
Does everything have to change?
TMS is like redwine and black olives you grow to love them.
Whatever happen to the wonderfully un-p.c tealady of the year judged by Gat?
Oh and by the way Boycott is the best professional Yorkshireman on the radio.
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@75, thats not particularly a ringing endorsement ;)
I like Sir Geofrey of the Name Drop on TMS, but really, listen to how many name drops or self publicising comments he gets in whilst on air, its rather good fun considering how bad england usually are on the field.
As for Selvey going, thats heart breaking, and Stewart is not a good replacement. Any chance of getting Lawrence Booth or Andy Bull on?
And Mark Steel should have a presenting slot as well.
But complaints aside, I must thankyou for an excellent show and I'm sure it will carry on and evolve as time goes by.
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I'd love to be able to comment on the dumbing down of TMS or not but it's been so long since I listened in, I'm afraid I can't.
At home I have Sky Sports and so can watch on TV. But like many listeners I'd prefer to have TMS on in the background and turn the TV sound off. This is no longer possible due to the 30 second delay of online and digital broadcasts.
As for driving, who still has long wave in their cars?! I've got a choice of updates every 15 mins on 5 Live, which involves listening to the inane chatter of other sports for the entire trip, or take pot luck with other stations. One 3 hour trip for example included merely one report of the score during the last test match.
Put TMS on FM or medium wave please, give us back out cricket pleasure!
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Well, first of all, Mr Mountford, I do find it reassuring that you are reading our comments and am very grateful to you for taking the time to respond, although I must admit that I would prefer it if you were to take note of some of them!
The TMS team is a bit like a cricket team, which needs to have new talent introduced slowly within a winning team. Too many changes, too quickly can bring the end to a winning run (it only needed the introduction of one roof-tiler for England to self-destruct!) I find the justification for replacing Mike Selvey an odd one. Using the cricketing analogy, the fact that the likes of Bopara, Shah, Key and Denly are all playing well and there might be good reasons for promoting them to England's Test side does not mean that it would be a good idea to drop Kevin Pietersen.
There is also the fact that new talent needs to be nurtured: just as cricketers tend to go through some combination of county, academy and A-team/ Lions, prior to selection for the Test side, so broadcasters should be allowed to develop slowly and prove themselves prior to being selected at the highest level. I think that every single person who has expressed an opinion on Aggers in these comments has praised his excellence. It is worth noting that, after his playing career, he started doing some work for local radio and a bit of print journalism, prior to becoming a summariser for TMS and then, after a while, becoming Cricket Correspondent and a commentator. No-one expected him to be the fully-formed, finished article immediately. The rush to employ recent players does not give them chance to develop or prove their skills, leading to their often lacklustre performances.
To continue the analogy, a side needs to be well balanced. A cricket team needs to have big-hitters who can make the pace and accumulators who can anchor the innings; electrifying fast bowlers who can unsettle the opposition, canny medium pacers who can restrict the runs and beguiling spinners who can attach with the old ball and exploit a wearing wicket. So it is that TMS, at its best, combines a range of temparaments, characters and voices. So the genial waggishness of Aggers contrasts nicely with the dour, trenchant opinions of Boycott and the outlandish eccentricities of Blowers were offset by the dry, concise insights of Selve. Each personality adds their own colour: Aggers by his knowledge and humour, Blowers by his joi-de-vivre and CMJ by his knowledge of history and exquisite use of language. SImon Mann has added to this with his careful research and accurate reporting and has the potential to bcome another CMJ, in time. But the variety is essential: too many commentators of any type would bring an unwelcome uniformity to proceedings and that is one problem with the "5Liveation".
I feel that the assertion that the "5Liveation" is not taking place because there was only one test not to feature the "Big 3" of Agnew, Martin-Jenkins and Blofeld was a little disingenuous. Whilst this may be true, a lot of cricket has been broadcast under the title "TMS", which has not featured that core team.
Then there is a need for specialists. England wouldn't ask Monty Panesar to open the batting, so why have general sports presenters commentating on TMS? Whilst the qualifications of the "old guard" are different: Aggers played at the highest level (albeit that he played few international matches, as Michael Vaughn famously pointed out); Henry was a promising cricketer in his youth, as well as being a passionate lover of the game and great raconteur and CMJ has a long pedigree as an author, journalist, Editor of "The Cricketer" and Cricket Correspondent of a number of newspapers. There is so much time to fill and there are so many nuances in a cricket match that one needs to be steeped in the game. Bluffing will be found out. There is more to it than the footballing school of "it's Smith up the right. Still Smith. He goes past Jones. Smith, to Bloggs back to Smith, GOAAAALLLLL!!!!!!"
On the specifics of current team members, I would tend to agree with those who are critical of Alec Stewart and Graham Gooch (although I note that Graham Gooch is hardly a new voiice on TMS). Neither catches the imagination, for me and though they occasionally have something insightful to say I find that they often slip into the sportsman's habit of talking in cliches. Gooch's tendency to tell us how good Essex's players are is annoying but probably excusable on the basis that we all have a tendency to think more highly of players we have had an opportunity to see a lot of: as a Man of Kent, I think that James Tredwell is massively underrated. What I find less excusable is Stewart's financial conflict of interest and, whilst you say that he is not influenced by this, I do not see how this can be guaranteed. It might be a risk worth taking if he added something special to the team but I don't believe he does.
Phil Tuffnell seems to divide opinion, with many enjoying his contributions, although personally I am unconvinced. I find his playing up to the "cheeky chappie" image and Mockney accent grate somewhat. Also, there are probably a number of other players who are recently retired who may have made better broadcasters. During his playing days, though, he did show a good cricketing brain and it may be that, if he settles into the role, he could, in time, become a good summariser but, as I note above, I think that that bedding-down process ought to be allowed to take place prior to joining TMS. My biggest gripe about Tuffers, though, is what he represents: the feeling that he was brought in as a "name"; someone people know from the telly. It suggests ratings-chasing in lieu of the pursuit of excellence. There can be few bigger cricketing names or more famous ex-players in this country than Ian Botham and yet I know no-one who watches Sky just to listen to his commentary. The cult of celebrity is not, need not and should not be the be-all and end-all.
Geoff Boycott also divides opinion and I actually enjoy his contributions a great deal although I do think that, just as I like my Marmite spread thinly, we should not be over-exposed to Sir Geoffrey, whose self-importance might begin to pall if we had too much of him. Of other summarisers used recently, I think that we have heard far too little from Angus Fraser - whilst some consider him a little Eyore-ish, his gloom is always good natured and he is a good reader of the game with a wealth of experience to call on. I would love to hear more from him than we do. Vic, of course, is sublime and in terms of experience, knowledge, delivery, wit and language is a perfect cricket broadcaster. Also, I would like to again note my support of the small (but notable) number of people that would love to hear Graeme Fowler on TMS again. If the Beeb has the money to lure "TV's King of the Jungle" then surely it must be able to persuade Durham University to let "Foxy" have a few days off.
On a more positive note, I agree with the contributor who praised Jason Gillespie's work at the Twenty20 finals. I, too, enjoyed his comments and would look forward to hearing more from him in the future.
Finally, it is good to read that you have secured the services of Simon Hughes. I am sure he will make an excellent and knowledgeable addition to the team: well done.
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I love the range of views from TMS listeners. I agree boradly with the comments on the blog. It is a shame that Mike Selvey will no longer be part but the rest of the team make up for it.
I think Alec Stewart has the potential to become a really good summariser, he is easy to listen to. Aggers is probably my favourite radio commentator. His jausts with Geoff Boycott are sometimes priceless.
I have to disagree with the comments of SKY TV coverage which I really like when I see it. I think Mike Atherton is really informative to listen to and I like Nassar Hussein and Michael Holding as well.
No one of course comes close to Richie Benaud on TV - he was simply the best.
Finally the lister that said that as we pay BBC staff their wages they should consult with listeners on changes. A rather banal comment that and totally unpractical. I expect Producers like Adam Mountford to make the decisions that keep the programme at a high standard. This I think is very much the case.
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Nice blog Adam. Shaun Pollock is shaping well. I love listening to the insights of Geoffrey Boycott. Jonathan as usual is always top class and in good form.
The Gentleman's Game is an age old institution. And so is BBC. Bringing in new players in the commentary team is a sound way of going about. The illustrious institution has to be sustained with quality performers in the Box as well as on the field.
Looking forward to your next blog.
Dr. Cajetan Coelho
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Very sad to see the departure of Mike Selvey, especially so when one considers the likes of Stewart and Gooch are being retained. Stewart may have a recent past in the England dressing room, but he is clearly (depsite your protestations) too close to some of the players and there is an obvious conflict of interest.
Fully agree with the positive comments about Jeremy Coney, he was wonderful value all summer. Try and persuade him back regardless of whether the Black Caps are touring.
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bring back Selvey and Foxy Fowler
Keep Tufnell as he is hilarious
Simon Mann is ok
Stewart, Gooch and Pollock were dreadful-wrong voices, biased opinions etc... If it ain't broke, why fix it?
I love test match special so it is sad when great voices are fired to accomodate ex super star cricketers. I am much more inetrested in unbiased insight that pro-surrey/essex dull monotones.
bring back foxy fowler!
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I agree with the need for a mix of views, my problem is that over the past 5 years we have seen cricket commentaries accross the board become more and more dominated by ex-pros.
It is good to have them there, offering a players insight into the gam and they do a good job in that role. However at times (and I know this is on sky but the same applies in lesser form to TMS and the BBC soverage in general) we went entire sessions during recent series with only former players.
The problem with this is that as important as a playes view on the game is it can also be a very lopsided one.
Sports commentary (and cricket in particular) needs the specialist announcer, honed in a knowledge of the game as a whole that can only be achieved by concentrating on the sport as an outsider. Players get an up close, personal experience but rarely get much knowledge of the game outside of their own cricle, largely due to spending time doing trivil things like actually playing the game instead of watching and compiling.
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I shall miss Mike Selvey too. But there's no point slagging off Adam Mountford. He's doing what producers have to do: taking tough and sometimes controversial decisions in order to maintain the programme's appeal. The on-air relationship between commentator and pundit is the vital ingredient in TMS's success. Each pairing must combine cricketing wisdom with insight, observation and wit. MS was extremely knowledgeable, sometimes amusing but rather dour on occasions too. Simon Mann has been the most successful of the newer commentators and I've enjoyed the contributions Tuffers and Pollock. Thanks for more than 40 years of wonderful entertainment.
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I agree that Selvey's insight will be missed and for all his playing achievements I have yet to hear anything from Alec Stewart which suggests that he has much to bring to the party as a summariser.
As a fellow Yorkie I have to support Sir Geoffrey, though it might be an idea to turn his mic down a bit! Mark Pougatch had the wrong tone for TMS in my view.
I have listened for 30+ years and of course the programme has to move on. Simon Mann has been a welcome addition and personally I think the core team could probably do with more of a shake-up.
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Thanks for responding to try and allay our fears over the commentary team. I guess we all have our favourites and you will never please all of us all of the time ...... but the general consensus does seem to be that Geoffrey does go on a bit too much these days .... but blowers, cmj, aggers. and the suprisingly good tuffers interspersed with coney and thorpe must be your key team.?
Keep up the good work - some of the best radio on the air
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How often do your commentators announce the score - no I'm serious?Expert opinion is just and only that - what about pigeons,buses etc.etc.-most of the really interested listeners know more than a little about the game's technical and tactical aspects
Adam Mountford,you have a tough job to do anything for my generation who used to be glued to the set - largely because TV coverage was either not available or too expensive - I can't listen to TMS for any extended period or watch TV without turning off the sound - it's not arrogance - if it's not the music you like it might as well not be there.Style is so important as well as substance - Bumble does the job but even he could become boring on extended use.
What about using the England Head Coach whilst he still has a job and see how he shapes up?
The great days of Arlott and Johnson et al have gone and I am sure that the present listeners(especially the ones that Adam's market research people tell him he should please)want the creation of a new ensemble and identity with which they can feel at home.
Cricket,as Adam says "has evolved" -so has commentary and expert opinion - and not for the better................
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As an ancient listener of TMS, from the very early third programme days, days I must agree with all your comments vis-a-vis the TMS team. You must have the diversity as I remember many fine points such as when Jonners was broadcasting the Botham test in which 9 10 and Jack held up an end. At some point Jonners described a cover drive by ten as plonking his front foot to square leg and the ball speeding to the cover boundary as an exquisit cover drive. He then went on to suggest that the selectors should keep ten (who had produced a very poor bowling peformance) Where upon TB went all serious and I thought what a **. On reflection it that diversity of comic / serious that really makes the broadcast. In the good old days when the cricket was televised I often used TMS for commentary. (unless Richie Benaud was on)
wildoldgeoff
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I didn't even know Mike Selvey had gone! I think all the TMS commentators are excellent, and this summer have particularly enjoyed Phil Tufnell, Mark Pougatch and a female aspect to the match of Alison , Sean Pollack although he started off a bit nervous has become far more confident and funny, and it's also interesting to hear Alec Stewart and other presenters add their own comments on how the game is played with their own experience - I listen when watching the tv with the sound turned down! on my way to and from work and at work, where I don't have access to the tv. Please carry on the good work,I even listen when I'm on nights in the depths of the British winter and you're far away in the sunshine!!
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Good to hear that Simon Hughes will be commentating during the winter
TMS can only be strengthened by looking for commentators outside the BBC sports dept rather than relying on multi-purpose broadcasters from within
Even though he moved on, Jack Bannister was a good example of that strategy. There must be more around
I suggest that the Beeb should start scouring the country for talent rather than just asking the bloke who's sitting at the next desk in the office - or one who's pushy enough to persuade the powers-that-be to give him a go on the TMS team even though he's not up to it
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Oh dear, since posting my comment I notice that replies to this blog are PRE moderated rather than REACTIVELY moderated
The BBC must be scared of the backlash!
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Rest assured SundayParkGeorge that you are not the only one who dispairs at the appearance of G Boycott.
TMS is the home of reasoned arguement and debate not Boycotts brand of so called analysis.
I even heard him say that a batsman should pace his innings according to the situation. Bit rich coming from him!
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Adam, I agree with the points you make and the need for any TMS team to evolve. I have enjoyed the introductions of Mark Pougatch and Phil Tufnell to the team this summer and feel they both contribute to the already excellent blend.
Unfortunately, I felt for Pougatch at times when Geoff Boycott dismissed his (perfectly reasonable) comments and spoke down to him. Pougatch made an enjoyable debut summer in my opinion, whereas Boycotts undoubted expertise is increasingly becoming hidden between his rants and boasts.
Id also like to make it known that should Alec Stewart be unavoidable at short notice, Im perfectly willing to step in and talk about how great Matt Prior is for as long as needed.
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Oh, and I highly recommend the article in this months Wisden Cricketer magazine comparing TMS and Skys coverage.
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While comment from decision makers is always welcome, it would be useful if that comment provided some explanation of decisions made.
I can't see any explanation or justificationin Mr Mountfords column for getting rid of Mike Selvey.
I can appreciate that the team has to grow and new people brought in. No reason there to get rid of one of the experienced and obviously much loved voices.
I am all in favour of trying new "names". Quite right to try Alex Stewart, Graham Gooch and Tufnell to name three. The first hasn't worked and hopefully won't be used again; the jury seems to be out on the second - perhaps extend the trial and the third has been a resounding success.
If an organisation needs to expand and new people brought in it's rarely a good idea to get rid of the best of the rest. The exception of course is if the organisation is changing direction - and that is why I, and I suspect others, are concerned despite Mr Mountfords fine words.
But hopefully I'm too cynical. TMS survived the loss of Arlott and Johnson. It improved with the introduction of Agnew and the retirement of Trueman. Tufnell and hopefully Simon Hughes point to more improvent. Stewart is a step back. I suspect that so long as it is still there I will waste too many hours listeing.
And hopefully TMS loss of Selvey will be the Guardian's gain.
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I am 31 and therefore young by comparison to many listeners I suppose. I don't care how old, young, experienced at the top level or otherwise people are. I love the different styles of Vic Marks, Geoff Boycott and Phil Tufnell as knowledgable 'pundits' on the game. Mark Pougatch is a good sports commentator and I have nothing against him. But Mike Selvey was a valuable and interesting member of the team and there was no reason to replace him. Alec Stewart is dull by comparison, as, I'm afraid, is Graham Gooch (although he was my favourite player). People should be judged on their performance on the radio and not as a cricketer and there was no reason to cut Selvey's contract. Shame on you.
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Oh, and I forgot to say that Alison Mitchell deserves a much fuller run in the commentary box - she is much more interesting to listen to than Alec Stewart - she shouldn't be wasted on the boundary.
And just for the record, Aggers, CMJ, Blowers (despite his mixing up of names) etc are the very soul of TMS... Tufnell has been exceptional in providing real insight into the game - he is a successful example of bringing in a modern voice - so many people realise he is good at radio. There is no need to force more new names on us - we are not stupid. We want quality regardless of where it comes from. Stewart isn't interesting! Is that really so hard to understand? Just listen to the radio!!! And although Boycott can be a bit repetitive, he is very good when giving his opinion for the first time on any matter.
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and I'm afraid that Adam Mountford's blogs are the least interesting of all. I don't want to be mean, but they just try to be something that we're not looking for.... all 'hilarious' stories of how one commentator tripped over a spoon and how the venue is so far from home.... not interesting.... Aggers (and I'm sure other commentators) has so much more to say....
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Having read through the other posts, two more points:
1. Coney was irritating beyond belief, smug and self-satisfied - I did not enjoy listening to him...
2. when one of the commentators reads out the wrong score (as has happened on numerous occasions this summer) why oh why does no one else in the box correct them?? Bill.... what are you doing???!!!
ps I love Blowers and forgive him his mistakes, but I don't forgive that no one in the box corrects any mistakes made - if I turn on the radio and hear it is 399-3, I don't want to turn on later on to hear that we are now 355-5.....
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I don't find too many of the commentators or the likes of Boycott, Tufnell etc annoying. I do have to agree with edthorpe about Coney and disagree with the Boycott bashing comments on here. He says it as it is, that annoys a lot of people and let's face it, anything negative he says is reflected in the way England play. Too many edge on the side of caution, he'll say "we were poor" and everyone knows he's not wrong.
I don't know why so many on here are complaining though, it isn't like mr smugness himself who presents C5 highlights is on TMS. And I would like TMS so much more if it wasn't like a game of musical chairs. I appreciate it must be hard on the voice, but can't they do half hour slots instead of constantly clock watching and announcing they're making way for the next while X makes a few comments and then X is off to be replaced by Y every 20 mins.
As for who adds comments alongside the commentators, the pundits if you like. Well a few can be annoying as per Coney, others are great like Tuffers who lighten up the place. Not sure there's a call for too many recently retired cricketers though, it's almost becoming very much like doctor who, where anyone who is anyone in that area (TV/cricket) wants to make a guest appearance. I get the feeling the invite list is anyone aggers bumps into at the ground
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My two penn'orth:
Generally, it is accepted that even much loved institutions like TMS need freshening up from time to time. However, one or two of the additions are questionable.
Mark Pougatch - please don't insult us any further by including him in the TMS box. From August - June he is a football nut on Five Live and then he turns up on TMS as a huge cricket fan? And he tries to commentate as if it's a football match as well! Plus, his knowledge of the game is very poor indeed. Aggers et al have always been brilliant at answering queries from the public about the 'basics' so Mountford's argument is clearly hogwash.
Alec Stewart - No, no and thrice no. The way every sentence goes up at the end in that Australian fashion is simply dreadful and I'm sorry to say that when he's on I turn TMS down just enough to hear if there is a wicket but not the dialogue. Good for emergencies but shouldn't be the stalwart that he was as a player.
Boycs - I'm a Yorkshireman and he's a hero but he is, admittedly, turning into a slight parody of himself. We all know Aggers couldn't bat and Harris can't bowl, Sir Geoffrey didn't need to bang on about both every single session this summer. Still, he's very insightful and is usually right so he must stay.
Tufnell - a sterling performance this summer. Still good for a laugh but his comments were much more analytical and revealing.
Pollock - a surprisingly brilliant addition. Do what it takes to keep him (ask Pougtach what Football clubs do to keep hold of their best players).
Aggers, Blowers, CMJ, Gus and the usual cast - first rate as always.
Non-cricketing wise, inspired choice of Leslie Garrett at lunchtime.
All in all, TMS is a class act and I look forward to many more years of enjoyment. Without Pougatch please. Seriously.
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well everyone isdifferent.there are people on this blog complaining about vic marks.i enjoy tms most when he is onand i am not ex public school secondry modern.but ego boycotte just wants to run everyone down and go on about football and golf.asfor your newer commentators get them to slow down a bit play themm some tapes of john arlott get cmj to give them some lessons.same goes for summerisers they dont have to jump in every two seconds.getting shut of mike selvy seems alittle strange,when he first came on i thought him the most missirable thing going,but he served his apprentaship mellowed a little so he is off.
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TMS changes....
I applaud the introduction of new commentators although I found Kevin Howells' style a bit OTT. I wonder if it could be explained why we have so little of Henry Blofeld who is so entertaining.
Tuffers is brill and so is Alec Stewart. It is a shame that Gatt no longer figures. Gooch is brilliant as a summariser.
I think CMJ is rather better now he has left the day job.
Well done TMS.
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Dick Booth's book on the history of Sports Commentary deals with the evolution of TMS which this is part of.
Aggers is par excellence; like BJ with a harder edge.
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I have felt for some time that TMS is being deliberately 'dumbed down' by the government controlled BBC.
When will 'the powers that be', whoever they are and in wahatever sphere they operate, understand that reducing matters to the lowest possible denominator wins neither friends nor plaudits?
The 'new'commentators simply grate. Some of the 'experts' similarly annoy and irritate. I refer to Messrs Pougach, White and the abyssmal Gooch.
I have no doubt that my opinions will simply be discounted, for we all know how pointless it is to argue with the Soviet style commissars currently running our government and it's apparatus.
Blofeld, Agnew, Marks, Frindall and 'CMJ' between them ARE T.M.S.
Boycott, Stewart and the irrepressible Tufnell are superb.
Why has the producer changed things? To make his name? What is his name?
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i'm sorry mr mountford you are dumbing down tms to five live standards by dismissing an erudite summariser and keeping alec stewart who uses an australian twang and can hardly string words together---the use of arlo white is beyond belief--perhaps the ultimate lad- adrian chiles will be next?--its depressing for listeners who pay your wages
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Adrian Chiles - now theres a thought.
By far the best TV presenter the BBC have. Understated and knowledgeable. No idea how much he knows about cricket and haven't heard him on Radio but if Pougatch gets a go...........
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Not so much a case of dumbing down but, I fear, another example of pandering to the modern "cult of the celebrity".
Mike Selvey may not be a household name or voice outside of cricketing circles. However, his journalistic talents as both writer and broadcaster are there to be admired by all keen followers of cricket.
If success is to be achieved in sport then picking your best team is one of the major requirements. If TMS wants its best team "in the field" then the excellent Selvey must be in it.
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Yes, sorry, on Mr Mann. But this error does not affect the main points.
1. The TMS audience will certainly accept newcomers (such as Mr White).
2. Mr Pougatch presents commentary like an American (a style naturally inappropriate to cricket).
3. Mr Mountford's regime started off promisingly, but, apparently and despite his reassurances, he has felt the need to tinker, 'modernise', whatever. Of course, he then has to spend his time 'blogging' his defences.
Speaking of reassurances, I am glad that Mr Stewart has satisfied Mr Mountford. I am glad to reassure any prospective buyers that London Bridge dates from Shakespeare's time.
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You said, "The decision was not an easy one, but we felt that the time was right to introduce some more recent Test cricketers into the commentary mix."
Erm, excuse me. Were Brian Johnson or John Arlott ex cricketers ?
It seems to me that you are going down the Australian path of choosing ex players as commentators. I would point out that Australia has perhaps the most biased, one eyed commentary I have ever witnessed as a result of ex players doing the commentary.
The listener doesn't need ex players as commentators. The Blofelds and Agnews will suffice, thank you very much.
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Mike Selvey has been axed because when you ask fairweather cricket fans about him they will say "who?"
That is the biggest disappointment, that TMS thought it had to go for bigger names and overlooked the quality of the contributions. Mike Selvey was one of the best summarisers on the programme. Alec Stewart has an awful voice to listen to and is often quite inane in his contributions, he shouldn't be in the box I'm afraid.
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Adam, thanks for the update - I appreciate it. Programmes must evolve to survive and TMS is no exception. I'm sorry about Mike going, but I like all the others and the new additions (Jeremy Coney and Tuffers have been ace!) have been very welcome. Vic is a particular favourite of mine.
Keep up the good work!
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Very interesting reading the comments from many people who care about TMS and want it to keep the high standards it has always had. I share the concern that the programme is 'dumbing down' and becoming irritating in parts. I agree that Boycott, Stewart and Pougach just put things in the wrong way. You miss the point if you think that Brian Johnson talking about Eastenders can be compared with Pougach making some silly comment. Johnson interested us all the time. As a Yorkshireman I cringe to hear Boycott rant on. I dont know how Aggers stands it.
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It is quite evident that Mr Mountjoy is determined to make his mark. If it is to the deteriment of a long standing and much loved show then so be it. It is just another rung on the greasy ladder of BBC ambition after all.
What Mr Mountjoy simply does not seem or want to "get" and what makes TMS so special to so many people is because it stands out like a shining light from the endless mind-numbing banality that passes for radio programming these days, especially the endless formulaic dross served up by 5-live - don't be surprised when traffic reports start appearing every fifteen minutes and the shipping forecast is quietly discarded. Mark Pougatch and to a lesser extent Arlo White are the archetypal 5-live presenters - slick, professional, never short of an appropriate sound bite or two. Except this hi-octane and hyper-earnest presentation is simply not appropriate for the meandering, subtle nuances of a 5 day test match. It completely destroys the ambience.
And it is all about ambience - someone else recently summed it brilliantly by describing switching on TMS as like sitting down with a group of friends to watch and discuss the cricket whilst engaging in some genial banter and chit-chat. To me, when TMS is at it's best with the right personnel, this is exactly how it feels.
Here is a suggestion - take a couple of million from Ross and use it to entice Peter Baxter back for another year and perhaps teach Mr Mountjoy a thing or two about producing memorable TMS shows at the same time.
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With respect to the comments defending Mike Selvey, the sentiments of which I endorse and agree with, having been a fan of his astute and thoughtful analysis for many years - I nevertheless think some of the thinking here is a little naive.
The fact is that Selvey's being dropped is not adequately explained by the producer's reasoning. The logical conclusion must be that behind the change is the one thing not appropriate for the producer to discuss: money. If there was a disagreement between Selvey and the producer over how much his comments were worth, you have to say fair enough if the producer chose to spend money elsewhere - it's his job.
As regards Boycott, he obviously splits opinion, but the fact is it isn't that long ago that he and Jonathan Agnew were voted the best of all commentary teams working in cricket. The majority rules, I think correctly in this case.
As for Pougatch - I agree with much of what is said above, but would add that in my view it's the actual pitch of voice that is important to test commentary. The nature of the game is such that the level of voice becomes very important. It's my view that Pougatch, though an excellent journalist who is very good at football and other sports, simply does not have the voice to suit the pace of the game. It's too high-pitched.
I was sad to note Henry Blofeld's comments a few months ago that even during his now all-too occasional stints at the mic, he "somehow didn't feel part of it any more". But I accept that things do move on, and cricket more than any other sport has done just that in recent times. However, in my view, the wrong choice has been in made in Pougatch's case simply because he doesn't sound quite right. Tufnell's forty a day ciggy habit does the trick, as he sounds just right. Perhaps he could pass a crafty fag to Pougatch before he comes on the air....?
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I understand the defence, but I still think it's wrong.
We want insight and a confident commentary manner. Too many recent additions have one or the other but not both. Mike Selvey did.
We also want a variety of voice types - one of the reasons why I prized the late Don Mosey, who proved we Northerners can speak good English - and that range of voices is declining too. I can no longer be confident that I can recognise the broadcaster when I switch on. I recall Peter Baxter being criticised for selecting commentators who all spoke like CM-J, but eventually he saw the light.
It's not too late to look at this again. Some recent players are too close to the current ones to give strong, impartial opinions.
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It is interesting that you create a criticsim (dumbing-down) and then respond to that, when that isn't the criticism of the new broadcasters.
The criticism of the new broadcasters is not their knowledge of cricket, which seems OK, but their style of talking. It is the five live mentality of shouting all the time, which is grating, added to that fact that they all sound exactly like Alan Patridge. Like another poster above, I cannot tell them apart. Plus, the five live mentality of always looking for spurious controversy. Five live producers seem to think that all their listeners are so lacking in ethics and morals that all they want is controversy, sensationalism and gossip. It isn't true of five live lsiteners and it isn't true of test match special listeners.
I wish Dave Woods was a cricket fan - he's the only five live commentator that I can stomach.
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It's good to hear that others think that "Sir" Geoffrey is becoming a self-parody, sounding more and more like the late Fred Truman. Sadly I always turn off when it's his turn as a summariser!
Tuffers is like a breath of fresh air - more please!
What happened to Foxy Fowler, always enjoyed listening to his anecdotes.
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Stop! TMS is like redwine and black olives you grow to love them
Whatever happened to the wonderful un-pc tealady of the year?
Oh and by the way Geoff Boycott is the best professional Yorkshireman on the Radio.
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This has all got very interesting, opening up into a debate about the way radio broadcasting is developing in Britain. Many people seem to share my irritation with the style of radio 5 live. The querulous note in the voice is always there, snidily looking for the negative aspect of any story. Victoria Derbyshire is a good example. Nicky Campbell has improved of late but he can be very annoying. Also Arlo White. A good lad at heart but cajoled to look for the contentious side of the story. We dont want this new approach in TMS. It isnt appropriate.
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I am not entitrely convinced that Mr Mountford has fully explained why Mike Selvey has left TMS. I think it seems like a small thing, but it does cause TMS fans to raise there eyebrows when an excellent and experienced broadcaster is shunted to one side, and others who aren't such broadcasters (I should perhaps put a yet in here!) are kept on. (Never been a fan of Alec Stewart's voice, but hey!)
And to be fair,m despite some concerns, TMS has had a good year this year, althought I would like tohear from a more settled, even if it has to be larger, pool of voices. Does sometimes seem to be that every time I turn TMS on there is a different voice.
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May I invite tms-fan-4now and eltowode to join me in watching a cricket match - almost any cricket match,because they understand the desperately inhuman standards to which we have fallen in our expectations from TMS,and we would have a great time!!Do not expect Mr.Mountford to know enough about what is good - he is solely governed by what is effective in his brief.......and that is tripe..........
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I have been listening to TMS since I was 10 years of age. 50 years ago. Change is a fact of life. Sometimes it is immediately obvious why and sometimes it takes a while to develop and become that which was originally envisaged by those responsible for change.
How many of us were immediately functioning at 100% of our potential when presented with a new challenge ?
Personally I think the blog of Adam Mountford is possibly a tad lacking in both accuracy and sincerity. However , he did at least take the time to present his views.
As I write this I am listening live to TMS and am enjoying it just as much as have done for all of these years. Delighting in the commentary of most and cringeing at a few.
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Am I the only one who can't stand Simon Hughes? He was by far the worst thing about the C4 coverage. Maybe it's the accents, but I find the likes of Stewart and Gooch irritating in the extreme. Boycs is a legend, and at least Tuffers is funny. I too would like you to bring back Graeme Fowler.
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Radio is a very specific medium in that the broadcaster's voice needs to be enjoyable to listen to, and clear. Cricket, and TMS in particular, adds a further dimension to that in that the broadcaster needs to be amiable and pleasant-sounding, quite apart from deserving a place based on cricketing knowledge. (Yes, even Boycs is amiable and pleasant-sounding with a warm voice, except when he goes off on one.)
I believe the type of voice is very often overlooked. I have often heard the quip "He's got a great face for radio", but sometimes we need to accept that there are people who have a "great voice for television". I am sorry to say that great players and knowledgeable people with boring or grating voices like Stewart and Gooch, or high and annoying voices like Pougatch, make TMS far less enjoyable.
Some people are naturals on the radio. CMJ and Vic Marks are excellent examples, with the kind of voices that are pleasant to listen to. You could find hundreds of people who have the necessary cricketing knowledge to act as summarisers or even commentators, but only a few who have the voice and presence to be excellent radio broadcasters.
It's perhaps surprising that Tuffers is one of them, but he is - he has the charisma and tone of voice to cut the mustard. Mike Selvey was always enjoyable to listen to, not the warmest voice but good enough, and like Aggers, with a knowledge of the game and an ease of expression which far outweighed their few Test caps.
Alec Stewart could have had 500 caps - I still wouldn't put him in the commentary box because he sounds boring. It's not his fault, poor chap, just as it's not Gooch's fault that his voice is far less dominant than his batting was; but I'd prefer to listen to Marks or Selvey any day.
So personally I'd not have kept Gooch or Stewart on the team, and I don't particularly enjoy glum old Gus, so I'd not have dismissed Selv ahead of any of them. And while Gooch's Essex connection is no stronger than that of CMJ to Sussex or Vic Marks to Somerset, I do believe it is purely wrong to allow Stewart to summarize any match involving any of his protegees or competitors of his protegees - regardless of whether he is scrupulously objective or not - and as such I don't believe he should be allowed to write for BBC online either.
Talking of BBC online writers, I have no idea whether Justin Langer has a radio voice, but if he does, for God's sake snap him up when he stops playing. That man is a cricketing genius and gentleman, and if he speaks as well as he writes, he would be a quality choice for TMS.
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Thanks for posting a response to people's fears and I must admit mine too.
I always felt there should be more cricket on the radio. It's perfect for it. Who has time to sit in front of the TV? Of course I'll only listen to it if I think the people commentating are interesting. It's partly why I don't listen to the local cricket commentaries online.
Part of the problem of voices might simply be due to the fact there are less distinctive voices and characters around today in which to choose from. If one has a boring voice then they are going to come across badly on radio. As Rory Bremner said on TMS in recent months 'Where are the characters going to come from in the future?' With other sports this might not be such an issue but given the slow nature of cricket I think it is. When I hear some summarisers on the air, I feel like I am listening to a current cricketer who doesn't want to say anything to interesting encase they get fined or reprimanded for their comments. It may simply be the fact that their voice gives this impression because it lacks character. If Blowers or even Tuffers makes a mistake I would forgive them because they come across with a passion for cricket. If someone with a boring voice makes a mistake I am less forgiving because they don't come across with the same passion. It may be exist but it's not in their voice.
With more cricket then clearly more voices are required. However this shouldn't be at the expense of the older guys. It should be in addition. Sadly I'm too young to have heard Blowers and CMJ's first commentary stints, I wasn't even born! Perhaps they only concentrated on the game and less on things around it. Perhaps in time the newer guys will sound more like a friend at a cricket match as opposed to someone sat in a box just talking about what is happening right now. I just put my headphones back on, heard Blowers and a smile came over my face. Of course he's had years to perfect is style. What people don't want is a TalkSport style of cricket commentary where they only took a serious approach on air and didn't include any of the banter or fun that comes across on TMS from time to time. It's difficult of course for newer people to do this when they are new as they need to grow into their role.
In amongst all of this I must add that TMS beats Sky hands down for commentary. On the final day of the Oval test I bought a small device for listening to either TMS or Sky Sports at test grounds. Not receiving Sky I tune in to hear what there commentaries were like. They were terrible. The long pauses were excruciating painful. Now I know Sky commentary is for TV and the viewers can see what is going on but then so could I as I was at the ground itself. Within a minute of switching over each time, I would be back to TMS with relief. Not once did I stay because I found Sky interesting. TMS has a long way to go if they are to be like Sky. I recommend people going to matches buy one of these devices and put on the Sky commentary for a short time. See how long you can last.
Remember everyone, if characters who like cricket don't exist in life, they can't exist on TMS.
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The debate over the composition of the TMS team becomes somewhat academic when I am denied any access at all to international games because of rights issues.
That said, there has been an audible change to the chemistry in the box. At its best, TMS was a collection of old chums inviting the listener to join them in enjoying a game of cricket. When it feels like they are doing their obligatory 20 minute stint before being relieved by the next worker at the coalface, much of the enjoyment is lost.
Management tinkering is usually the source of such atmospheric deterioration.
I'd like to see Mike Selvey back, but my most fervent wish is to be able to listen to TMS coverage of all international fixtures over the internet.
Frustrated in California
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Whilst all of this is subjective, I can't understand the negative comments about Boycs; for me his criticisms are pungent, but meticulously fair and well observed. He is generous in his praise when this is merited. I also enjoy listening to him playing the fool with aggers. He is a complete natural and one-off and we should cherish him.
I agree with the comments about the 5 Live transfers, Pougatch is a great broadcaster, but sounded like a fish out of water on TMS; perhaps he'll get the hang of it, but needs to cut the volume and stop trying too hard.
Oh, and BTW, don't let Arlo White anywhere near TMS again!
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I have listened to TMS on and off since my very young schooldays in the late fifties and admit that change is necessary. I think that Jonathan Agnew has been a great senior correspondent and enjoy CMJ, Henry Blofeld and Simon Mann. As far as the summarisers are concerned, I put Mike Selvey at the top of the pile because of his erudite approach to the game so feel it is a big step back to get rid of him (unless there are other reasons of which we are not privvy). I am reasonably positive about geoff Boycott but I feel that he is turning into Fred Truman - a parody of himself. I'm ambivalent about Graham Gooch but feel that is a wrong move to continue with Alec Stewart as a lead summariser - dull as ditchwater. Viv marks is reasonable.
I daresay that we shall get used to the changes (as we always do) but, at the moment, I believe that the dropping of Mike Selvey for 'new blood' is a wrong decision.
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Since it seems Adam Mountford actually reads these comments, I just wanted to add my voice to all those others who have complained about the dropping of Mike Selvey from the TMS team. Selvey's qualities, and the deficiencies of some of those chosen to replace him, have been adequately outlined by other posters. But I wonder if there are other TMS listeners who (like me) would never usually take the trouble to post a comment on one of these blogs but feel strongly enough about this issue to voice their displeasure? Perhaps if enough of us put down our feelings in words--personally, I am nothing short of furious--Mr. Mountford might realise just how poor a judgment he has made. Otherwise, I guess he'll just have plenty of instructive Bank Holiday reading to scroll through...
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I have no complaints with the line up, presenters come and go over the years, don't like Mark Pougatchs' commentary style, too aggressive, no gradual build up of excitement within his voice for my liking, but that just personal taste.
Some of the highlights of the summer, for me, have been Tuffers and CMJ sharing the box, so different, but so good together.
The only change I would make to TMS would be that 5Live xtra doesn't get preferance over long wave, especially on overseas tours, where I know that I will miss the action, sometimes vital moments of sessions while LW has the Daily Service or Yesterday at Parliment. How many people have DAB access in there cars, trucks, or in my case company van, at home I can retune to digital radio via Sky or online, but thousand of people up and down the land must swear at their radios in unison when they hear the words "Long wave listeners will be leaving us at the end of this over" (shipping forecast i don't mind missing a ball or two for though, it's important to those at sea)
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An opportunity wasted - this would have been an ideal time to lose that fatuous waste of space - Blofeld. Surely it's time to pension him off? Pougatch may have his detractors, but he at least he commentates accurately...
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The comments from the Producer are fine but the quality of offering from p Tufnell, A Stewart and G Gooch are far from the broadcasting skills of the others, including M Selvey. There is a difference between good broadcasters and test cricketers; the key is to pick the right ones. May I suggest that some of the new comers appear frivolous and do not get way with their brand of humour, as Blofeld and the others can. May be we dislike change or are too set in our listening. All in all it is a great programme - why can it not be acquired abroad thru' the Internet - a shame?
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Simon Mann has been showing tonight why he has made the grade on TMS where others have so far failed
His voice is easy on the ear, he knows his stuff, his commentaries are intelligent and thoughtful, he has a good vocabulary and a nicely relaxed sense of humour
Together with Aggers, CMJ, Blowers, Simon Hughes (assuming his commentaries this winter are a success) and an overseas commentator (big mistake to lose this tradition) that is a nucleus of six, no need to introduce anyone else at present
Arlo White can return to Five Live, where his reports today were fine, and do some 20-20 commentaries along with Kevin Howells and co, while Pougatch can go back to everything apart from cricket
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It just shows that TMS is following the show business side of cricket , You want Tufnell and not Selvey.. My god , Selvey is not that old. his comments are incisive and not frightened of critisicm. Too many so called "recent players" are utterly predictable and boring, Apart from Boycott, Marks and and others are not exactly forward with criticizing Players in their summarys . Ffreddie Trumans .. "I dont understand wants going on out their" followed by a detailed analysis of what he meant is sorely missed.
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I dont mind Graham gooch , but Alec Stewart is so monotone and boring . its difficult to be enthused
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I have been listening to TMS for about 17 years and my favourite combination is without a doubt Aggers and Boycott, I often laugh out loud at their comments. Aggers is TMS. I used to love listening to Blowers and CMJ but I must admit that their increasing errors are beginning to irritate me - Blowers kept calling Stuart Broad Chris Broad tonight for example. Keep up the good work - when I moved to France due to my husband's employment I was overjoyed that we could still pick up Radio4LW and TMS.
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It's desperately sad to hear that Selvey is moving on. He's a superb journalist (as anyone who reads his outstanding pieces in the Guardian can testify) whose breadth and depth of knowledge of the game is second to none. To put it simply, there is no cricket journalist I would rather read, nor broadcast analyst I would rather listen to.
He has the knack of putting his finger on the pulse of what's happening - be it a controversy, a canny prediction, or simply saying the bleeding obvious when all about him are pussyfooting around.
Aside from Aggers' excellent stewardship there are always two people in the box who I will always listen to extremely keenly whenever any major issue arises (e.g. the Pattinson farrago, KP's appointment, etc) - Selvey and Marks, in that order. They've both got an almost clairvoyant feel for what's going on and are able to draw on a huge wealth of anecdotes, experiences and facts to back up their arguments. Mike just pips Vic to it at the moment but there's not a lot in it (so keep it up, Vic, old chap).
To the selectors at TMS (esp Adam M), you're raving bonkers to be leeting this guy go. To Mike, you're a legend. Their loss will be someone else's gain - all the best mate.
Chris
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The TMS team is one of the best.
They dont shout down the microphone, they air their views and have fits of laughter.
Skys Team is good for TV, they too dont shout and you know David Lloyd sets them all off on a laugh when he points out a few unusual things.
If Llloyd was in the TMS box, they wouldnt stop laughing.
Tuffers is a great commentator to TMS, I want him to continue.
Simon Hughes sounds like a major addition to the overseas tours, shame he has Cricket on Five during the Summer where he is good on the mic and analysis.
Shame Mark Nicholas is busy in Australia!
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Mike Selvey has been an excellent voice to hear and it is shameful that he has been dropped on ageist grounds.There should always be space for the elder statesmen of the game as long as their voices can keep up with the tempo of the on field action.
I wouldnt ever want to meet Geoffrey Boycott whenever I am in a pub for a drink but I do enjoy his opinions, wisdom and courage to speak his mind on TMS.I dont always agree with what he says but I find his words thought provoking that most certainly enhance my enjoyment of the game and TMS more than any other presenter.
On the other hand , Mark Pougatch is hopefully gone for ever and best forgotten - his knowledge of cricket is no better than on a par with my own ,and the TMS audience deserves skilled knowledgable entertainment rather than a chap whose face wont ever fit.
I have been listening to TMS since 1981, and of course I remember John Arlott and Brian Johnston - I was never partcularly concious of the fact that these fine commentators did not have test cricket backgrounds, I think of them as the creators of the atomosphere and format that has made TMS an institution, and Pougatching TMS is actually the only way I can imagine that it would actually be possible to get listeners to switch off TMS
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What would be the reaction of TMS listeners if it was announced that two new commentators were joining the team: a poetry producer, and a broadcaster best known as for live stunts and pranks on a Saturday night light entertainment programme? Outrage, I suspect. But I'm describing TMS's greatest voices, John Arlott and Brian Johnston, both of whom moved into cricket commentary from general broadcasting backgrounds.
The same could be said of Don Mosey and Alan Gibson, two other popular TMS commentators of the past. Even CMJ came from the Radio Sports Unit, where, it may surprise anybody under 40 to learn, he was responsible for delivering a summary of lower division football on Sports Report for several seasons before becoming cricket correspondent. Blowers alone (of the ball-by-ball commentators, as opposed to summarisers) comes from a purely cricket journalism background.
Jon Champion was a member of the TMS team for one test in 2000 before leaving for ITV, and even Peter Jones dabbled in cricket, joining the team for at least one ODI in the seventies. Arlott was a football reporter for Sports Report for many years, so taking commentators with a football background is not a long-established practice, not one introduced since the departure of Peter Baxter (who has written that he wanted John Murray to join the team).
I agree with the majority of posters that Mike Selvey's departure is a mistake, but the introduction of commentators without a cricketing background (but with a love of cricket) does not necessarily equal dumbing down. The many hours of on-line commentary now available from BBC local radio could be used to test new voices, and as "nets" for commentators who only do a few games a summer.
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Pat Murphy is one of the jewels of cricket commentary with his blend of cricketing knowledge, general knowledge, wit, broadcasting professionalism and ability to extract useful contributions from ex-cricketers. Almost a complete waste on Radio 5.
Amongst the fairly recent international cricketers, I think that Dermot Reeve is a superb commentator who should be used whenever he's in the right part of the world. I think I heard him in NZ last winter on BBC or Sky. His ability as a commentator is based on the skills which made him a good captain and coach.
I would add my support for Foxy Fowler, who is also presumably able to relate to younger intelligent audiences as he coaches / coached Durham University (I think).
Vic Marks is another gem - similar to CMJ and with very useful insights from a county perspective. I like his blend of levity, enthusiasm and grumpiness.
Anyway, if the BBC introduced a 24-hour TMS Channel (to counterbalance the appalling excess of football coverage), it could cover all the additional matches people have mentioned, employ many teams of different talents, maybe add some coaching programmes and fill the inactive hours with recordings of matches from days gone by; 99% of us wouldn't remember how the matches developed, so they would be just as exciting as now. We would also be reminded of the old commentators (some of whom were a bit boring) and would be able to use them as yardsticks by which to judge the current crop. Come on Adam ....
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Despite the denial I suspect someone somewhere in the BBC has examined the age demographic of the TMS listening population and decided there was a lack of appeal for the MTV generation hence the change.
I listen to both 5 live and TMS.
I like Mark Pougatch on 5 live but not on TMS as I feel his style is incongruous and the programme does not benfit from the juxtaposition.
The role Pougatch plays as a cricketing innocent to aid the listeners cricket education is painful.
Mr Mountford also fails to mention the one day commentaries over the summer featuring Arlo White which were very poor.
Mike Selvey was excellent as are the rest of the core TMS team.
I look forward to the addition of Simon Hughes.
Jim, age 37. Never played much cricket. Rules/stats and nuances of test match cricket learned from listening to TMS prior to dumbing down.
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As someone who doesn't have SKY, I've come to rely on it more and more, so I would hate for it to be dumbed down. If it got as bad as the BBC's football coverage, that would be disastrous. They just employ ex-pro after ex-pro, with only a handful being any good at it. Something I hope TMS will avoid in the future.
Personally I liked Stewart and thought Tuffers was a breath of fresh air. I think Simon Hughes would be a welcome addition to the team too. However too many ex-pros in the box is not desirable.
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As a cricket fan in my mid 20's I am only really familiar with the more recent test players. However I still very much enjoy the commentary of Aggers, CMJ and above all Blowers. Their good humour and eccentricity, as well as good commentary, are what TMS is all about too me and I think they sit well alongside the recent and more technically minded test players.
TMS is rightfully called an institution and with the "old guard" intertwined with the professional ex-players long may it be so.
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A lot of words but precious little substance. Selvey was one of the few on TMS with a hinterland - as his fine Guardian journalism shows. You should have kept him.
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Mark Pougatch (and Mark Saggers, aren't they the same person?) and Alison Mitchell somehow don't seem to have grasped the basics of microphone, amplification, loudspeaker. They all feel obliged to shout into the mic. It's a horrible noise anywhere. It's particularly horrible on a programme like TMS.
On a separate note, although I think highly of Jonathan Agnew and I think Phil Tufnell is okay, can someone please make them understand that repeating the same catch-phrase endlessly is just annoying? With Jonathan Agnew it's the word "absolutely", with Phil Tufnell it's "a little bit". In both cases the incidence has become something approaching the pathological. I suggest going easy on the usually inane "fantastic", too. Thank you.
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Your explanations of the recent changes to TMS do nothing to convince those of us who think that they are a question of 'change for change's sake'.
There was a time a few years ago when changes needed to be made but the status quo was allowed to continue (I'm thinking particularly about the case of dear old Fred Trueman whose refusal to accept that cricket had evolved from the game it was when he was in his prime became tedious in the extreme).
My personal opinion is that the jettisoning of Mike Selvey is a big mistake made, according to your rationale, to modernise the presentation. Selvey is only 5 years older than Gooch, was a playing contemporary and, by my reckoning, is a much better communicator than the former England opener.
It would seem that an affiliation to the Home Counties has become a pre-requisite for inclusion into the TMS squad. Gooch, Thorpe, Tufnell, Stewart, Fraser and Hughes all played for Home Counties teams and if you add the recently departed Selvey it begins to look like a cartel. However I would accept as much southern bias as you cared to make if it meant the exclusion of the insufferably self opinionated Boycott. He summarises just like he played - totally selfishly and boorishly. I now make alternative arrangements during his stints at the microphone and I refuse to watch TV coverage on Channel 5 because of his presence.
I now feel a little better having got that off my chest!!
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I suspect it's only now, having read these comments, that the Beeb will realise just how good Selvey was, and how much the audience appreciated his contribution (compared with, say, Alex Stewart, who just spouts cliches and platitudes).
They've made a big boo-boo and should have the decency to admit it
On the commentary side, even back in the 1970s TMS was trying out alternative commentators on the one-dayers (can I remember football correspondent Bryon Butler and athletics commentator Norman Cuddeford, both great broadcasters from the past?)
But the Test matches themselves have always had a small core of regulars, and that's the way it works best
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Nice to read about the thoughts about the programme. Tuffers and Shaun Pollock have been great additions this summer. Mike Selvey's always been good, too, and it seems that he's being removed solely because he's not young enough.
However, though Mark Pougatch is a fine broadcaster, a commentator he emphatically is not! There's more to commentary than quoting statistics and all purpose linking. Agree with the earlier poster - you need another Simon Mann: informed, witty, relaxed and who brings out the best in whoever's with him. Pougatch is the only member of the TMS team who has made me switch off the radio and put the Sky commentary on (except when Bob Willis is doing it, obviously).
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I understand the need for new commentators on TMS but care must be taken to ensure they don't spoil what is a glorious institution. Mark Pougatch is a good broadcaster but as a link man in the mould of all the Five Live and Grandstand
presenters (Saggers,Richardson,Hazel Irvine et al). Good at linking but as regards the unique skill of cricket commentary sadly lacking in character of voice, inside knowledge and relaxed manner that is essential to TMS. He is far too intense.
Mike Selvey needed to be replaced because he did not 'fit' and was curmugeonly in a lot of his comments. It cannot have been comfortable sharing a commentary stint with him. He is however a great journalist.
Aggers knows how to handle Boycs and he should remain if only for the wind-ups. He also knows a bit about test cricket.
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I think their are four types of cricket commentators;
a) World class Test Cricketers: Rubbish or mediocre Commentators
b) Mediocre Crickets; Rubbish or Mediocre Cricketers
c) Mediocre Test Cricketers/Non Cricketers: Excellent Commentators.
d) World class Test Cricketers: Excellent Commentators.
a + b should we shown the door.
c + d are worth their pay cheque
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Mike Selvey was unlucky. Geoff Boycott, while interesting and amusing for a while, is becoming very repetitive and too strident and might be a better candidate for standing down.
Most of the TMS team is very good, especially Vic Marks who combines insight and independence of mind with great humour.
I agree that Mark Pougatch is a good journalist (and a far better import from 5 Live that Arlo White) but I hope that he will relax into giving more attention to drawing word pictures and less to intruding his opinions and trying to direct the between overs commentators down paths set by him.
TMS is one of life's pleasures - thanks
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Just a few of many thoughts prompted by all this:
Very sorry to see Mike Selvey go. Surely he wasn't employed for his (fairly limited) test experience, but for his witty and erudite journalism? (He's one of the few reasons left why I still read the Guardian). When the occasion demanded, too, he was capable of bringing an element of gravitas to the proceedings that's been otherwise lacking since the retirement of Arlott. Is it a coincidence that I believe he's sixty this year? Does the BBC have a policy about this sort of thing? Is Alec Stewart really an adequate replacement?
You (AM) are quite right about the need to have the right blend on TMS. What made the classic seventies line-up work was the mixture of distinctive and likeable but contrasting (and sometimes conflicting) personalities and voices. Unfortunately that is precisely what's lacking with some of the newer commentators (particularly the ones from Radio 5) - there are three or four whom I can't even tell apart on air.
What really worries me is that we already have an entire form of cricket (20-20 - the cricketing equivalent of the cane toad) aimed at cricket-tolerators rather than cricket-lovers - and I'd hate to see TMS aiming in the same direction.
Phil Tufnell, though was a pleasant surprise, and it's a pity Jeremy Coney can't be a permanent fixture.
And finally - if you even think about replacing Vic Marks with some areas-obsessed drone I'll be the one outside the commentary box with the pitchfork and the flaming torch.
Keep up the good work (which is still, mercifully, most of it).
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Agnew, CMJ, Marks - all class and a joy to listen to. Witty, warm, insightful and articulate.
Stewart - Mechanical and cliched. Adds nothing.
Tufnell - good fun. Natural and relaxed. Understands the game far more than people give him credit for.
Boycott - if he stuck to technical analysis he would be terrific. When he strays from that he can be cringe inducing. His endless critisism of Agnew's batting ability is tiresome. I think he creates a bad atmosphere in the commentary room.
Pougatch - Loud, relentless and out of his depth.
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Given that you state that more commentators are neede to cover the expanding coverage of TMS, then why did you feel the need to drop arguably the strongest member of the team?
Mike Selvey has been an excellent commentator and cricket communicator. Your justification for his sacking is very poor.
I really do urge you to reconsider this decision. The TMS team now feels unbalanced, with some very poor performers (Graham Gooch was a great player, but he really is a very weak summariser).
I'm a tad dissapointed.
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Kentkiwi59 (post 147):
Most regular TMS listeners know that Messrs Johnston and Arlott came from nowhere into the commentary position. I'd argue that it is their very backgrounds coupled with a love of cricket that make them as loved and remembered as they are. A cricketing background is not essential. One of the dismal things about the Sky team is that it's pretty much ex-cricketers aka people who have learned how to play the game rather than how to describe the game in printed word or vocally. This is mirrored in journalistic circles, although not quite to the same extent. It feels like the various types of media have decided the public respects the ex-player more, even though the ex-player may well not a particular good journalist. Why this is, I am unsure. Nobody demands a political correspondant to have been a former MP or a fashion correspondant must have been a former supermodel. Somehow it has been deemed that an opinion is more authentic if it comes from an ex-player.
I don't think anyone here really suggests that introducing a commentator from a non-cricketing background is a bad thing. What they are saying is that introducing Mark Pougatch is a bad thing. I don't like his commentary style. He seems far more suited to Eurosport than TMS. It's like replacing the revered tones of Kenneth Wolstenholme on the 1966 World Cup Final with one of the Mitchell brothers from Eastenders.
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I've got to defend Vic Marks. He has a natural wit that all summarisers require and it's just a shame that he doesn't commentate with Jonathan Agnew any more.
Personally I think that if you're going to keep Henry Blofeld, he should be moved to a summariser's role, as I don't think he does the job of commentator properly any more.
He may have the sort of voice that retains a link with the Brian Johnson era, but I'm sick of him getting over excited when a wicket falls and having to rely on his summariser to explain what actually happened.
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Some of the contributions to this blog are most interesting and there is obviously a varied opinion on recent decisions taken by the BBC. As always I listened yesterday to TMS and my enjoyment after 20 years is still there. I did enjoy Selvey but I must say I am thoroughly enjoying the Stewart-Blofeld partnership. Two differing styles which complement each other so well. Its good to have the views of a recently retired player and Stewart and Tuffnell have been a welcome addition.
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It's interesting (and heartening) to read that most people's views here accord with my own in essence, with some small variation.
I think the message to Adam that's coming from pretty much everyone so far is:
1. It was wrong to drop Selvey (if you did so for change's sake.) He's far better than those chosen to replace him (bar tuffers)
2. Stewart should be dropped: his agenting duties don't sit well and your comment that he is impartial (because he says he is) just doesn't wash. Even more important than this, though, is the fact that he's a really boring commentator with an extremely monotonous voice. He talks in cliches.
3. Pougatch isn't right for TMS. I agree that you need to find new commentators and personally I don't care where they come from as long as they can cut it. He's too shouty, too urgent, too eager to whip up a storm (a la 5live.) Sometimes nothing happens in test cricket and there are no red hot talking points - and that's ok.
As a long time listener (though still in my early 30s), I feel the key is to keep the pace right and the variety of voices. The above three points seem fairly universaly and I would just add two more subjective ones - Foxy Fowler was always fun; and I always like a touring commentator (i.e. Neil Manthorpe did a good emergency job this year.)
Oh and Please please please get Rod Marsh for the ashes - he was absolutely superb last time.....
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It is a pity that Mike Selvey has been sacked. I found him to be a thoughtful and insightful member of the team. And YES, TMS is dumbing down. Too much silly chatter and not enough commentary. Mark Pougatch is not up to the job, 'Aggers' Agnew spends far too much time joshing with Geoff Boycott. It's NOT funny chaps, just repetitive and boring. Let's stick to the game at hand and not 'in my day' from Boycott and tail twealing from Aggers.
Christopher Martin Jenkins is always absolutely superb during commentary without needing to resort to spalstick and unfunny asides. Simon Mann is OK, Arlo White is MUCH better. AND AND AND PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE it is way beyond the time for Henry Blofeld to go. I know that jobs at the BBC usually go on well after rigor mortis has set in but Blowers is becoming a stuttering stammering, half blind embarrasment.
Having said ... TMS is still a masterpice, BUT MUST BEWARE of becoming a caricature of itself
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Completely agree with twisted72 #167.
Blowers has a certain old-world charm and occasionally says amusing things about birds and other flying objects, but he has become a bit irritating. He is also somewhat prone to error. To occasionally get the score wrong is only human: to repeatedly bring back Botham into the team, as he did during the tests, when he really meant Flintoff, shows his mind may be on former glories.
But then, Sir Geoffrey was getting irritating, boringly repetitive, before he took a short break (back at Yorkshire?) He came back refreshed. Perhaps Blowers should take an extended holiday.
The selection process for TMS commentators has always been very good, as the results have shown. Much better, I think, than that of the players. TMS has become an institution.
To finish, what a breath of fresh air Hoggy was yesterday! He's obviously only a part-timer as his real place is out on the pitch, but until he gets back there, let's have him behind the microphone every match.
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Ahhh webbyfoxes (post 145) has brought back pleasant memories of David Lloyd on TMS in the 80s and 90s (in between being on the umpires list and being England Coach) That was when I first got into TMS, and he was one of the main reasons!
My problem with the likes of Mark Pougatch and Arlo White being on the TMS roster is that there are better choices it seems to me. Kevin Howells is an excellent broadcaster, with a good knowledge of county cricket, would be respected by listeners as a familiar cricketing voice, and would be able to speak with authority.
I do like both Arlo White and Mark Pougatch as broadcasters, Pougatch is great on Sparts Report and Sport on 5, I think White would be excellent as kind of chief cricket reporter on 5 live and being brought on as a future TMS commentator, but he just sounds too wet behind the ears right now.
Oh and when Matthew Hoggard retires eventually, get him in the team of regulars- he was excellent in the 1st ODI I thought.
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Hi,
so there's more cricket on TMS then, so why get shot of one of the more experienced commentators? Makes as little sense as selecting Pattinson. TMS will be the voice of cricket to many now the ECB has taken the sky dollar so its important to get changes right.
Its all about balance, Tuffnel/Stewart sound similar and are from the same generation of players. They sound like brothers, one who has worked hard and done well for himself, the other who has an anecdotally funny past and made good at the last. Fraser could easily be a scolding older sister so a nice little ol' boys club in the making there then.
Boycott is more and more the ol codger with his pint in the corner "in my day...etc", he does provide variety, Mike Selvey would surely have fitted as the gap between GB and the younger crew?
I feel that Gooch has less and less to say after bigging up his Essex protoge's, both he and GB need to add some depth to their musings.
Hoggard is a surprisingly entertaining commentator, nice change from the southern accents too. He seems to impart more of how the modern game works, something lacking in the Tuffnel,Stewart,Fraser axis. If Simon Hughes is available he would add useful depth to what could become a glossy insubstantial production, so he and Hoggard would be more inspirational signings - at least for the listener rather than for the club.
muttleymax
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To be brutaly honest, when I first heard Mike Selvey's voice I thought...what a drone! After getting used to it I did quite come to enjoy his contributions.
Aggers has done well as the anchor. Blowers is a riot but hope his voice isn't giving out! Vic Marks is the most accomplished analyser by far.
Tuffers is OK but has limitations perhaps. Loved his quip that Boycott's fen shui water feature was the toilet!. The others in the mix are not so bad (yes even Gooch!) Variety is what you want. I do however think Boycs needs to give the Aggers batting rap a rest...to much already gents please!
Love the TMS thing...always have.
Oh yeah and I agree that Rod Marsh should be brought back..he was very good last time. Also J Coney was good value...(loved his reminising about staying in the hotels in the sub continent).
Good luck fellas...
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It's interesting how much agreement there is on the blog reply board (except about Blowers and Boycott, but that's to be expected)
If the BBC really does care about its audience, the way forward is clear now
I'm sorry for Mark Pougatch, but Adam and his bosses must take responsibility for pitching him in so deep with disastrous consequences
Everyone is enitled to be given a chance, but I hope they don't perservere with MP in the hope that he tones it down a bit, because it will be painful listening for many of us in the meantime
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What a fascinating debate and what a high standard which I will probably lower.
Having been a TMS listener since just about day 1 I have always been impressed by the programme's ability to move forward and keep all potential audiences interested. It seems that this is the general intention and that is good.
However, the experiment with Mark Pougatch has had enough time to be classed a failure - as a keen cricketer he should know that something of earth shattering significance does not happen every ball and an inane question to his co-presenter does not make it so. He is the only commentator on TMS that I will try to avoid listening to.
I am with the majority of comments re GB. He appears to be constructive but in fact is the opposite and is the biggest dinosaur in the cricketing media world. Let us not forget he almost destroyed Yorkshire cricket on his own and had a pretty good go at England too. Few would really miss him although the brilliance of Aggers in pointing him down a path would have to be re-directed.
Talking of Aggers, when he started he was less that wonderful and now look. A fount of knowledge that is put across to all levels of interest so well.
Finally if Mike Selvey has to go he should know he will be sadly missed and his excellent work over the years has been appreciated by many many people.
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Like so many others contributing to this debate I am concerned and disappointed at the decision to drop Mike Selvey from the TMS team. It is symptomatic of the direction which the programme seems to be taking since Adam Mountford replaced Peter Baxter as producer. Mr Mountford appears intent on changing the identity and culture of TMS - we have seen something more than 'evolution' in the past year or so - and I am not at all convinced by his justification for dispensing with Selvey's services or for the wider changes he is introducing .
I accept that listeners will always have personal preferences about the commentators and summarisers they want in the TMS box but there is clearly an overwhelming consensus that Mike Selvey should not have been the one to make way for some of Mr Mountford's recent imports. I have always looked forward to Selvery's sessions as summariser. He worked well in tandem with most of the commentators and seemed to me to understand the role of the summariser much better than some of his colleagues who speak too much, say nothing interesting for fear of being critical or parade their egos. He shared with the listeners very clear analysis and insight, thorough knowledge of the game and ability to criticise constructively without being negative or bringing an "I told you so" mentality to the table. He also had an engagingly dry sense of humour which was a welcome antidote to some of the more knockabout stuff on display in the box which can be distracting. Unfortunately, he seems to have paid a price because his profile is not as high as more recent additions to the team and he is not interested in making his own personality the focus for the discussion.
It is symptomatic of a direction to the programme which is profoundly worrying. I wholeheartedly agree with other comments about the confusion of tone which is resulting from the introduction of commentators from a Radio 5 background who are not suited to the style and rhythm of TMS. I cannot understand the infatuation with using active or recently retired cricketers who are too close to the current players (and who may also have vested interests in particular counties or individuals) to be able to comment objectively, particularly when, as in the case of Alec Stewart, they have little to offer as broadcasters either. It seems we are in real danger of the best traditions of TMS being eroded by a '20-20 culture' with the sound bite and roving microphone squeezing out commentators who can talk with character to their audience, working effectively in tandem with summarisers who don't have to have been world-beaters as players, much less mates with the current crop, but who have credibility and are articulate and independent-minded.
I don't know what research Mr Mountford is using to influence the changes he is making. Perhaps there are the inevitable age and social demographics and market segmentation data to justify this more 'populist' approach? But how has he consulted listeners? The comments on this and other topic blogs show there is a real sense of unease with what is happening to TMS. The number of responses, clearly all from listeners passionate about the programme, should carry some weight. Nothing wrong with change, Mr Mountford - as you say the game is changing rapidly - but it must be for a purpose and strengthen the programme. There will always be a need for experienced, independent and serious-minded voices and you have lost one of the best of these.
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I tend to 'dip in' to TMS, it kind of depends who's commentating and who's summerising.
My current fav's are Aggers (who doesn't like Aggers?), Vic Marks, CMJ, Geoff Boycott, Angus Fraser and Mike Selvey.
I must admit I was a little disappointed when I heard Mike Selvey was being dropped and yet Phil Tufnell was to continue.
I know Tuffers is a popular guy, but as a summeriser I'm not so sure. His constant giggling and joking throughout the summer was so annoying that I switched off on many occasions.
Disappointing.
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I have arrived rather late to this debate and without wading through all the comments I want to say that my idea of a perfect day is fiddling round in my kitchen on a sunny afternoon listening to TMS. It brings me much joy EXCEPT when the tedious and conceited Geoffrey Borecott comes on and then the radio goes off for the next 20 minutes. Save Mike and get rid of Geoffrey please. He spoils the whole ambience of the programme and all my cricket loving chums feel the same about him.
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1. Try out new additions in the less important matches (odis, 20/20), and then, only if they are a success move them into the test match team. eg, if hoggard continues to do well throughout this series, then maybe he could be given a small run out.
2. The more different their character to all the other team members, the more successful they will be. Contrasting characters work well, but if everyone is the same bland mark pougatch or stewart, then it cannot possibly be interesting over 5 days. I find the most ineresting to listen to are Aggers, Blowers and CMJ, three very colourful and different PERSONALITIES.
3. If they could fit into the sky commentary box without raising the boring and uninspiring tone there (yes, even Michael Atherton's like that now), then they are probably no good - I can see Stewart fitting right in there, whereas Pollock was probably too good for sky.
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Well done BBC for getting rid of Selvey. TMS was in danger of turning into the p*ss and vinegar brigade over on Sky. I think the final straw for me was a lunchtime discussion between Pringle, Selvey, Gus and Aggers on what was 'wrong' with English bowling. As if that bunch of dozy pie-chuckers had a clue. My childhood was scarred by having to watch that pear-shaped atrocity Pringle opening the bowling. Thank God we've got some decent cricketers now.
Well done on bringing in tuffers, he's excellent value.
Now, could you get rid of Blowers too please? I'm fed up of having to wait through half an hour of stuttering, descriptions of buses, etc. before I can find out what's actually going on.
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dozeyderek
How about some contructive comments and criticism instead of childish abuse. I found your post pretty offensive - but maybe that is what counts for "wit" these days.
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Can I add my bit to the many disappointed listener's comments? I too thought Mike Selvey was a high class summariser and it is sad to see him go.
I am afraid to say that I just do not agree with Adam Mountford when he seems to suggest that there are insights that only ex-players can give. I cannot imagine that Gooch or Stewart for example know any more about the game than CMJ for example - and if they did they certainly don't have the erudition to express it.
I think the challenge is to find top-draw distinctive commentators rather than summarisers. Blowers - magnificent as he has been - is very close to the end and I suspect that CMJ will shortly move into book writing. The days in the 70's when the top team consisted of Arlott, Mosey, Blowers, Johnston and CMJ present a real challenge to the current crop. Simon Mann may get there.
I was very surprised by the quality of Tufnell's additions in the last test. There was clearly a degree of healthy 'frisson' between he and CMJ which made for some good broadcasting. I choose to blank Boycott out but I understand that many take the opposite view.
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Adam
Bearing in mind the recent BBC Radio figures which showed healthy listenening figured for Radio 4, but poor figures for Radio 3, why can't TMS go back to R3 mw.
It is becoming increasingly difficult to get radios with LW and the reception is worsening all the time.
It makes great sense to make the cricket commentary available to more listeners and will give cricket fans more hope that the BBC cares about them.
And R3 isn't really going to lose out now.
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I think I can neatly some up this debate, which I have been watching over two threads now and for a good couple of weeks.
Firstly, everyone has different tastes, to that end I think any change is bound to ruffle a few feathers.
BUT TMS is special, as listeners we take it seriously (sometimes maybe too seriously!) But for many of us it is how we follow cricket either often or all the time! As listeners maybe we need to give the unfamiliar a bit more of a chance. But I think we can also tell who has ability to commentate on the game with knowledge and enthusiasm, and who doesn't. (Personally I do think that basically TMS needs cricket erm if not specialists then mainly cricket firsters, people we associate with cricket first and foremost. Mark Pougatch is a fine broadcaster, but he is not a cricket commentator in my view. Arlo White might become one!)
I am a bit ambivalent on the Blowers debate. I kind of think he is like the teacher in the corner of the staffroom who has been there forever and is a bit eccentric, but no-one dares to even think about removing. I think there was a time after Brian Johnstone's death were he was a bit neccesary to protect the spirit of TMS, but Aggers has stepped into that role very well now. And from my point of view there would be value in putting him out to pasture now whilst CMJ is still committed so that TMS doesn't lose two icons together very quickly. And Simon Mann is developing into a fine cricket commentator so there might be space to phase Blowers out. But I would want some more cricket specialists phased in at the same time. I have mentioned Kevin Howells on this board a couple of times, there might be one or two other possibilities (maybe Simon Hughes, if he could be brought over from Five TV full time, and there might be one or two others around)
I think it is important for listeners to build a bond with commentators, but I think maybe thats more of a two way thing than many posters on this thread care to think about. We need to have patience and get to know some of these people. But also maybe there needs to be more thought going into who to bring on board.
I am not a fan of just getting in summarisers who were the very top level of players. You don't need to be Englands most capped player or highest run scorer to be an effective summariser. In my view neither Gooch or Stewart are great broadcasters. I am not convinced Graham Gooch can become one, but maybe we should give Alec Stewart more of a chance, if he can be a bit more impartial, especially regarding players whose interests he looks out for. I've been impressed in Graham Thorpe's contributions, and if he is spending more time in the UK again now, and if his commitments allow would prefer to hear more of him than either Stewart or Gooch. Phil Tufnell has been good and should be used more.
I think its fair to say that the reasons for Mike Selvey's removal have not been adequately addressed. But at the same time, the show will move on and develop. I presonally worry and think that Selvey's is a very difficult position to fill, in as much as he had unique insights and perspectives that can't just be filled in by throwing younger voices into the mix. I haven't been iverly impressed by Angus Fraser over the years to be honest. Nice bloke without enough personality to carry over his ideas on radio maybe. Perhaps that will develop though it feels like he has finished his apprenticeship really and should be up to speed by now. It feels like TMS, on the summariser side, is falling into the old BBC TV trick of just finding big names, and not worrying about the standard of broadcasting offered (I still don't rate David Gower as a commentator!) and I think thats why people started turning the sound down and listening to the radio.
I think its worth remembering the quality of broadcasting on Channel 4s cricket coverage (lets not forget Channel 4 didn't use Gooch after 1 trial in a one day final, and Tony Greig was drafted in after Alec Stewart had been used for one test after the Dermott Reeve drug thing!) Channel 4 seemed to be more bothered about the quality of broadcasting rather than how big a name someone was. I think that should be the guiding thought in bringing people into the TMS team- can they commentate effectively, entertainingly and intelligently on the game.
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Well put together argument Adam. I too always enjoyed Mike Selvey's input and with Angus Fraser around I guess you have, perhaps, a ready made replacement. Time moves on in any field of work (or going forward as seems to be the buzz phrase currently), but thanks Mike for all the years and will continue to enjoy your writing.
I don't think TMS has been 'dummed down' at all--I think 2008 coverage has been excellent and varied. If you want to 'stir the pot' a bit next year, how about introducing Peter Roebuck for the Ashes?
Coney and Thorpe were excellent additions this term--both never shy of saying what they think--and is it me or has the Tuffnel factor relaxed 'Bearders' a touch more this summer? He actually seemed to be enjoying himself for a change !
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I too am very sad that Mike Selvey is leaving, his is a great voice for TMS and this concept of bringing new voices to the programme is all very well, but don't drop someone as good as him!
The current core team of Aggers, Blowers, CMJ, Tuffers, Vic Marks and of course Boycs are really good. I find Mark Pougatch and Simon Mann OK, and hopefully they will improve with age.
Arlo White is a no-no as he seems to have little understanding of the game.
If you could get David Lloyd and Mike Atherton you would have superlative team. But the Gaffer and Goochy don't cut it, very dull and too partial to their respective interests.
Of the visiting commentators Jeremy Coney was brilliant, Shaun Pollock was OK. More female voices is a must, Donna Symonds is golddust and Alison Mitchell is just given fluffy stuff to do - is she not better than that?
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Adam Mountford is correct in stating that change is a necessary process, but surely you must try to ensure that it is a positive process. Is releasing Mike Selvey a positive step for TMS? Given the consistent quality of his insight and comments I would argue not. I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to you over the years, Mike --- you will be very much missed.
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Time for Mr.Mountford to stand up and acknowledge that the cricketing public with a love of TMS do not want his silly interference.Let him go back to square one with a few people who have some nous and background and establish what is good for the broadcasting of our wonderful game - as opposed to some ill defined and evolving objectives which may fit the corporate or personal plns of some at the BBC.the old expression in the days when there were true socialists was "hands off!!!"................
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Thanks for the piece.
Personally I think Tuffers has been fantastic since he came in, and more like him are welcome. Indeed, with the exception of Boycott, what sets the TMS team apart from cricket commentators elsewhere is their self-effacing modesty.
I have a question though: could it be possible, in future series, that the situation never arises that we are left with both active commentators being supporters of the opposition? There were times when Jeremy Coney and Bryan Waddle (both great on their own) had the box to themselves earlier this summer, and as an England fan it was torturous listening to two men obviously taking delight in every English error.
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Simon Hughes hasn't played Test Cricket at all, at least Selv played a few. I'll miss him as he and Vic are the most considered and insightful of the experts.
There is a wider point here, which makes the issue of which experts are on duty an irrelevance. In my view, its about time the ECB took the radio coverage off the BBC in retaliation for the BBC not bothering to make any bid at all for any part of the TV coverage of our national summer game. In my view this decision by the BBC is an absolute disgrace.
I would urge Adam and all his colleagues to resign en masse from the BBC on a point of principle in protest about their decision not to bid. They could bid as a freelance team and take it to another radio station. This would make the BBC realise what a disgraceful policy they have wrt attempting to cover our national summer game.
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Thanks for explaining the changes. It's your judgment, rather than your transparency, which is in question. Mike Selvey is just so much better than either Alec Stewart or, especially, Phil Tufnell at offering knowledgeable summaries at the right depth and with the right pace. It's difficult to see either growing into the job as he did. On dumbing down, the new emphasis on boundary gossip just panders to a wearisome celebrity culture, adds nothing of merit and is sufficient evidence of dumbing down. Can you drop it for 09, please? I'm all in favour of change, though. Why not a woman commentator or two?
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ALEC STEWART IS A DISGRACE TO TMS. He was an excellent player but unfortunately it is as though he has never even listened to TMS before - he has no sense of humour and no understanding of what TMS stands for, all he ever wants to do is to criticise and over-analyse.
PLEASE REMOVE HIM BEFORE HE TAKES THE FUN AWAY AND DESTROYS THE SHOW.
All other presenters offer valid and diverse opinions and insights, pleasantly surprised by what Tuffers has added.
Keep up the good work.
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According to today's Independent, Adam Mountford is only carrying out instructions from above, which was my original hunch
Adam, how can you allow yourself to be the person who carries the can for making duff changes like sacking Selvey, while bringing in Stewart and Pougatch?
If the Independent is correct, perhaps you should resign as a matter of principle - unless of course you categorically agreed with the changes (in which case you really ought to stand down anyway for getting it so badly wrong)
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I have no difficulty with the loss of Mike Selvey, he was one of my least favourite sumerisers.
As for Mark Pougatch, I found his stint in the TMS box fascinating. Another Five Live presenter who I enjoyed listening to last winter was Arlo White. They both seem to have an excellent knowledge of the game.
Gus, Phil and Alex - if I may be so familiar - are excellent and I enjoy listening to their anecdotes.
Polly was good as well, but should learn to relax more. Be a bit more like Coney.
The only presenter that does rub sorely is Simon Man.
Alison Mitchell was great in her boundary walk-a-bouts and she should be involved more and it would be great to get Eleanor Oldroyd back on.
Another ex player who is good is Goochey and I can see the day when he replaces Boycs. He does need, however, a broader sense of the traditional TMS school boy fun.
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The 5 live commentators lack the in-depth cricket knowledge and the good radio voices, including timing. I often listen to Edward Bevan on Radio Wales, as well as obviously enjoying Aggers. Boycott is not a team player on the radio, still talking about the corridor of uncertainty after 20 years in a superior tone. The media seems dominated by ex-Middlesex / Surrey/ Essex players, so Selvey, Tufnell and Fraser is at least one too many. Gooch has interesting things to say but his voice is not good on radio, while I agree that Stewart's closeness to players and again a poor radio voice lets him down. Cork has been a good fresh voice, and I'm sure that there are other ex-test and county players who could make the steps into the box. Put them on the county internet sites and listen to their performance. Aggers and Selvey proved that a lack of success at Test level does not prevent them from delivering an insight into the game.
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Sorry, but Gooch does not have the communication abilities to be a TMS summariser. Face it, his insights are limited at best and at times banal. Alex Stewart at least has the benefit of being in close contact with a lot of the current players and therefore an appreciation of what is making them tick.
Boycott, is, well, just Boycott and OK I get the point that Aggers was a rubbish batsman, but this Yorkshire-Man (sorry about the -) knows the game, his trade and is great entertainment.
I love the TMS jollity, I love its old-pros, new-pros and its never-pros but I do really need some smart, intelligent, incisive journalistic content and that?s why Mike Selvey (both a player AND a journalist) should be re-appointed.
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Mike Selvey was the one voice we all listened to on the radio. I am sure we all agree that Aggers is a super host and mainstream commentator and the lynchpin of TMS. However, it was Mikes comments whic distilled the events and put everything into context.
I cannot think that there is a justifiable rationale for replacing Selvey with Stewart or Gooch. They have nothing valuable to add and obviously have their own agendas, something Mike did not.
Shame on you Mountford, the nation has lost a real insightfull commentator and you cannot justify this at all. Consider your position, others will in the future!
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TMS needs of course to have a balance of personalities and styles in its commentators to appeal to the wide diversity of listeners...
My concern is rather that over the years the precision and quality of the ball by ball commentary itself has - in my view - declined. It seems much less easy for me as TMS listener these days to have the important mental picture of what exactly is happening once the ball arrives in front of the batsman. On too many occasions commentators' emotions, judgements and interpretations seem to take over at the expense of an accurate description of the batsman's stroke or otherwise - it's a trend not just in cricket commentating but I do hope that TMS will endeavour to preserve standards in this direction. Precise commentary first please - then the comments!!
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TMS to me seems to be business as usual for the most part. Boycott has involved into Trueman, CMJ is evolving into a great TMS commentator.
I remember when J Agnew first appeared on TMS and there was some worries about his qualifications for the job. I was very wooried about this newcomer. Sadly, new names are needed to replace those old names who have retired.
I do have concerns about the number of recent ex-players. Rather like football trend, its good when you find a Alan Hansen or a Gary Lineker but Alan Shearer is a good example of someone having nothing to really add or much personality.
Right now I am not a fan of Alec Stewart or Graham Gooch, they just are not critical enough and not interesting enough. Phil Tufnell will definitely be a great one to listen to-his observations range from totally obscure and random to funny, interesting and knowledgable. He paints a rich colourful tapestry.
I do think Mark Pougatch is an interesting choice and could develop, right now he sounds too much like a football commentator-he feels the need to talk too much and too quickly. There is a void to fill in TMS, the distinguished elder wordsmith. It makes you realise just how good Richie Benaud, Henry Blofeld, Johnners and Arlott were.
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Change is inevitable and usually good. The one change that needs to be made is the exorcism of the Yorkshire Knight whose self referential ramblings drive me to the mute button.
As for going down the Australian route, it should be pointed out that this is a situation on TV only and the ABC still has several fine commentators with no major Cricket background. The professional caller and ex player expert team serves the sport best.
The Channel Nine Australian TV commentary is appalling.
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Adam, thanks for the blog explaining things. I realise changes sometimes have to be made.
However, I cannot believe that Mike Selvey being replaced by Mark Pougatch is in the general interest of cricket fans. In spite of your protests to the contrary it seems ominously like a move to harmonise TMS with other sports broadcasts led by Radio 5. Even if you personally don't want to see TMS 'dumbed down' these are moves that feel like the thin end of the wedge. A major cricket journalist has been replaced by a five live general front man.
On other matters, as has been mentioned above, Phil Tuffnell is a terrific addition and the rest of the team are all good value. I also thoroughly enjoy the website text commentary by Ben Dirs and Mark Mitchener.
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I'm afraid this is very bad news indeed, and the justifications you've given do nothing but reinforce my suspicion that you're taking TMS in the wrong direction.
You say criticisms "seems to have come about because a couple of the newer commentators have previously done most of their broadcasting on 5 Live." - I'm afraid it's a lot more than that, it's because these commentators commentate as if they're doing a 5 Live broadcast.
I'm sure they're very knowledge and passionate about cricket (but then so am I), and are experienced broadcasters. For me, it has nothing to do with not having played the game, that's an easy excuse I'm afraid that doesn't get to the heart of the problem. They're just too 'corporate' in the way they commentate - they always talk about the fact they're "live on 5live sports extra", and bring a sensationalism that would be better suited to Sky Sports. They are career broadcasters how've learned the ropes on 5live - which is good at what it does, but it does things very differently from TMS. It's more sensational, more punchy and more, dare I say, in your face. They bring that approach to TMS and it's simply not right as far as I'm concerned.
I think my main concern is that you're introducing the 5live people in gently, but that before long they'll be much more prominent.
You're in a very important position Adam, guiding the great TMS and I really hope you don't continue to take it in the direction that it seems to be going. Mike Selvey is the most incisive and considered pundit you have, and to attempt to justify no longer using him is frankly absurd. You say you want a blend of youth and experience, but you appear to be judging people on different standards than has previously been the case. Tuffers is good at what he does, and very funny of course, but if you honestly believe that he's a better TMS summariser that Selvey, then I'm afraid you're in the wrong job mate.
"The growing amount of cricket that the BBC covers simply cannot be covered by the core team." Then why do you have to get rid of Mike Slevey? I'm afraid you're totally contradicting yourself. I can only think that you believe he's too dry, and not punchy enough for the way you want the modern TMS to go.
Why bring in Simon Hughes and get rid of Selvey? I can't, in any of the excuses you've given, see how that is possibly explainable. Hughes is very good, certainly, and I think he's more of a professional broadcaster than Sevley in that he's more upbeat and catchy. But that's not what TMS is all about and I'm afraid indicates your thoughts on future direction. You want a punchy delivery that will appeal to everyone. I'm rather afraid that in trying to do that you will spoil the essence of what make TMS great. It still is great, but you?re really are starting to do that Adam.
I think Bringing in Simon Hughes is a positive move, but to say he needs to come in because you have so much cricket to cover, whilst getting rid of Selvey just doesn't wash it.
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Thanks for all the comments.
Just one clarification which I hope will be useful.
In post 207 J?Hingsen asks why we are replacing Mike Selvey with Mark Pougatch and others have asked why I state we need more commentators, but then remove Mike Selvey from the team.
On Test Match Special we have a team of "Commentators" and "Expert Summarisers". Television commentary does not normally make that distinction.
On TMS the "Commentators" , like Jonathan Agnew and Henry Blofeld describe each ball whilst the "summariser" passes comments.
"Commentators" are often professional broadcasters such as Simon Mann , Arlo White , CMJ or Mark Pougatch - but the likes of Jonathan Agnew made the switch many years ago and is an example of a former player who has become an outstanding commentator.
Our "Summarisers" are normally people who have played the game to a high level like Geoff Boycott or Vic Marks.
Therefore it is not the case that "Mark Pougatch is replacing Mike Selvey". Mark is one of the broadcasters we have used to augment our core team of commentators. As I mention with the amount of cricket now to cover we need to have more than just the core team.
However we are fortunate on BBC Radio to have an excellent group of "expert summarisers" to call upon. What we wanted to do was to make a change to the mix of those summarisers with a couple of more recent test cricketers sprinkled into that mix.
Just one other point I would like to respond to. One comment made suggested that we were being influenced by the "cult of the celebrity".
Again I would state that what makes TMS so successful is having a mix of people from all sorts of backgrounds. It is fantastic to call upon the experiences of the likes of Geoff Boycott and Alec Stewart who have each played more than 100 tests each. But equally important to the magic of TMS are contributions from the likes of Vic Marks who may not have played as many test matches but offer as I say great wit and wisdom.
I appreciate that it could be considered that Phil Tufnell comes from the "celebrity" field.
But I would say firstly I originally used Phil on BBC Radio at the 2003 World Cup , before he went into the jungle and before he joined any "celebrity world". But more importantly Phil has had a fantastic first full year as part of the TMS team with great feedback from listeners and has shown both great humour and astute judgement of the game. Any "celebrity status" is frankly irrelevant.
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Hi Adam,
The commentator / summariser distinction is clear, but why are you getting rid of Selvey and bringing in Simon Hughes?
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I'd like to echo some of the earlier points and say that I think the addition of Phil Tufnell has been a great plus for TMS, and I hope he's to be part of the team for many years to come. I'm also pleased to hear Simon Hughes is coming in, although sad to learn that this should be at the expense of Mike Selvey, whose dry wit I thought was an effective part of the TMS mix and who I'm sure will be missed both by fans and colleagues.
I'd imagined it might just be me who found Mark Pougatch's commentary on TMS this summer to be poorly informed and woefully out of step, but it's reassuring from the tone and length of Adam's message that I'm actually just part of the choir of disapproval. It's ironic that while Adam defends against accusations of turning TMS into Five Live, Pougatch's commentary was grating enough to for me to switch from Sports Extra to Five Live for score updates, rather than listening to his hackneyed and cliched remarks. This isn't to say Five Live correspondents can't make for strong TMS commentators - I think Arlo White has shown potential - but Pougatch, who's admittedly an eloquent sports presenter, is simply not cut out for the demands of long stints of entertaining cricket commentary.
If Simon Hughes is to join TMS, could he not take a commentary role as he does on Channel Five's highlights, enabling Selvey to be retained as a pundit and Pougatch to return to his strengths on Five Live Sport? Just a thought.
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Personally I'd rather have seen Alec Stewart go than Mike Selvey. I guess that Mike went because his voice sounds far too similar to Angus Fraser's - I can never tell who we're listening to between those two.
I like Arlo White's commentary style, but can I put in a word for Kevin Howells, who does the scores reports for Radio 5live? He obviously has an excellent grasp of the game and a lovely voice to boot. More please!
And a word for Alison Mitchell. Lovely to hear a female voice in commentary in the last World Cup - I think she's wasted in what she does at the present.
Clare Connor's also done some work for the BBC - can we have more of her please?
I love the "guy next door" style of Tuffers and his phrases and sayings. One of the reasons for listening to TMS rather than TV commentary is that it sounds like you're sitting with a group of friends, and Phil's the friend who keeps the party going!
And finally, I've heard Mark Ramprakash summarising for Sky - gotta be worth talking to for when he retires, although that doesn't look like it will be anytime soon thank god!
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Well done for taking note of the comments. I do wonder if your view of 'what is distinctive about TMS' differs from that of your listeners.
The rare and seasoned pros that TMS has managed to identify - Marks, Selvey, Aggers and in my opinion Boycott - have been added to the team over what seems like donkey's years and seem to my mind to have been accurately identified as being made of correct TMS stuff.
I have to say I don't feel that way about Angus Fraser, a man who constantly sounds thoroughly depressed and bored with proceedings and not a particularly insightful analyst to my mind. Alec Stewart is OK - his banter with Boycs is very good - and I enjoy Phil Tufnell. His analysis is surprisingly good.
I personally don't know what Arlo White and Mark Pougatch bring to TMS, and I found the number of new voices on TMS this year distracting.
I still love TMS - the diabolical commentary on Sky with its parade of boring ex-skippers throws even the boring monotone of a Fraser or Gooch into sharp relief - but I do hope this isn't an attempt simply to stamp your mark on TMS and wave your hands at some 'new blood' notions.
Selvey was probably the best of the summarisers which, along with the rapid introduction of a lot of new names, makes me dubious about the new direction, and whether TMS can retain its distinctiveness.
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i've only just come back from a holiday abroad, out of touch with internet, and it all seems to have kicked off while i was away. im extremely touched and flattered by the responses here and thanks for that.
as to the decision to axe me from tms, it was made at least as far back as the new zealand series and probably well before that and conveyed to me by the head of radio sport as i was on the way home from chester-le-street test whenever that was. at no time, either before or since, has the producer spoken one word to me about any of this except to reassure me in sri lanka before christmas ( over the hotel house-phone rather than face to face) that i remained" an important part of tms". so make of that what you will.
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Hello Mike
Great of you to post. I'll still be reading you in the guardian every day, so keep up the good work.
It's illustrative that the producer didn't have the discussion with you himself about letting you go.
Also read an article in the Independent, which suggests that the producer's nickname at the beed is 'noddy', so keen is he to implement the plans from those on high.
What I can't understand is why Head of Radio Sport, etc., is so keen to transform a successful show. Incidentally, I'm a relatively young listening and can't stand the 5live influence. Save it for the football.
Good luck, anyway, Mike - maybe we'll get you on the guardian podcasts come the india series.
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Yes, Mr Selvey (215), thank you very much for contributing: it is good to get it "from the horses mouth".
Anyway, let me echo benlyle26's comments in thanking you for your enjoyable observations in print and on radio over the years.
I shall continue reading your reports and analysis and hope to be able to listen to you again, sometime, somehow.
My best wishes for your continued success.
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Some quick points.
First, thank you to Adam for writing the blog and giving us, the audience, a chance to make our feelings - good and bad - known. Before I go further one point I would raise with your article is in your introduction when you state: "? since the news was announced that Mike Selvey was not going to be part of the [TMS] team." Well, I listened to some of the final test and I don't remember the ?announcement.? That is why I, and others, posed the original question of whether Mike had gone (as reported in the Guardian) and if he had, why.
Second, thanks to Mike for his service down the years and obviously I join others in saying that his contributions will be missed.
Third, my main point is that I am beginning to wonder if this change in commentators is less to do with repositioning TMS to appeal to a "youth demographic" and more about money. Is this a case of TMS attempting to fill more days broadcasting on a standstill budget? Does a commentator with an existing sports commentary contract for FiveLive cost less? It is noticeable that overseas commentators - always one of the pleasures of TMS - have quietly been dropped from the roster. What was the rationale for this? There also appears to be a doubling up with summarisers appearing on the radio and the television highlights (Boycott and Stewart currently - Hughes in the future). Does this mean they are cheaper to the BBC?
This brings me to one of my principle concerns for the programme, which is despite the increased roster of commentators, analysts, roving reporters, blogs, podcasts and so on, the programme sounds as if it is being made on a shoestring. Lunchtime documentaries that required research, archive recordings, and interviews with former players have been replaced by a quick ring around the journalists in the ground. And increasingly what fills in between the live action does begin to resemble news coverage on FiveLive. This is not to denigrate FiveLive, which I listen to and enjoy, but it is to highlight the special qualities that TMS is in danger of losing.
And if I hear yet another sodding discussion about the IPL and Twenty20 ... Yes, I know it's important to the future of the game but can't we just give a break for a day??
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Just been looking through these posts again. They illustrate the fact that you can please everybody.
I am surprised by some comments particularly those which are critical of Gooch and Stewart. To me Gooch talks with great authority. Duggie Brown is good.
Of the newer commentators they will of course grate on us till they settle into the team. What Adam should work on with them is eradicating the earnestness which they show in wanting to be so much part of the TMS team.....
I am sorry if Mike Selvey was dealt with shabbily... shades of BJ and TV years ago. To me it has been a tonic having Blowers in the first two one day matches.
Some people have referred to the lack of tv coverage by the BBC.... personally I find sky pictures and TMS talking a form of heaven.
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The "new" Radio5 commentators are all very similar with little in the way of anecdotes and ability to talk around the subject of cricket. Should somebody tell Simon Mann that "wicke" has a t at the end of it? Listen out for it - it will grate on you as well!
What about some of Aggers's very interesting lunchtime guests as commentators, or even someone in the Blowers mould like Jonathan Ross?!
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I was very impressed by Matthew Hoggard when I heard him a while ago. Impressed, too, earlier today by Duggie Brown - a very unexpected surprise. As Hoggard has been kicked out of international cricket by England (after ONE poor game, lest we forget, unlike people like Anderson who has made a career out of average England performances), I'd like to hear more of him on TMS. As for Alec Stewart, you can't expect him to be honest when he's also representing players. That alone should see him left out. I'd have Selvey over Angus Graser (an average England performer, at best) any day. You've certainly been hard done by, Mike.
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What a load of rubbish post #195.
What ever decisions BBC Television make there is no way that BBC Radio should be penalised by losing the rights.
The ECB are to blame for the current situation with the TV rights - they took cricket off mainstream TV.
Notice also how they re-sold the rights to Sky and then moaned about a lack of BBC bid, why not say something before taking the Sky dollar?
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The truth is that the 5 live presenters are poor and they have brought down the standard of Test Match Special. Pougatch and Arlo White are bland, which is exactly what TMS never was. I was listening to the 20/20 final coverage and thought that was poor. It's not dumbing down it's just turing something great into something mediocre.
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I think the BBC have made a mistake. Mike Selvey should have been retained and the services of old Henry Bloefeld dispensed with. Am i the only person who finds his stuttering and stammering infuriating. Any radio programme relies upon its live broadcasters to describe proceedings accurately and timely. Henry seems to me to be unable to do this, half the time he is unable to recall a players name or field position. Makes me want to turn off when he commentates. I really dont understand how he seems to be held in such high regard.
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Along with some other people who have left their comments, I am less aggrieved by the loss of Mike than by the presence of others on the team.
I am afraid that neither Stewart nor Gooch have 'radio voices'. It is not their alleged partisanship that bothers me so much as the fact that they are just painful to listen to; so much so that, when Stewart is on, I have taken to turning the radio off. I have great respect for his cricketing achievements, but almost none for his broadcasting abilities.
As to 3 others that many people have identified as candidates to be axed:
Blowers is my favourite commentator, because he, and to a marginally lesser extent, Aggers, can make every delivery sound exciting. I am prepared to forgive his occasional errors for that reason.
Tuffers has been great. Many have criticised a supposed lack of depth in his cricketing knowledge, but my experience is the opposite.
Boycott I respect for always saying what the thinks. I also respect that he is game for the constant teasing he gets from Aggers, but, chaps, one thing is wearing a little thin and it is time to move on; Aggers, you need to stop having a pop at Boycs over runouts, and Boycs, you need to stop the line about Aggers' batting skills.
These three are the most colourful characters on the TMS team, and that is a large part of what makes TMS so listenable to me. I am puzzled that so many negative comments have been made about them, but, then, I guess some people only want to hear monotonous, dry, factual accounts of the action. Not me I'm afraid. If I want that then I can put the telly on and go to sleep listening to Bob Willis droning on.
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Adam, thanks for responding again.
In post 210, you say that you are not "replacing" Mike Selvey with Mark Pougatch. But that does not explain why you have to get rid of your joint best summarizer. You say you now need a "sprinkling" of more recent players in your commentary team. Does Phil Tufnell, Dougie Brown, Alex Stewart, and Mathew hoggard, to name but a few constitute a "sprinkling"? It leaves you with only Vic Marks and Boycott and maybe Angus Fraser as esteemed, experienced summarizers (Gooch is simply boring). Suddenly this "sprinkling" seems to have become the majority of your summarizers. Maybe your sprinkling needs to be sieved first, so that only the best of the new crop are taken onto tms coverage, whereas the dropping of one of the main ingredients in Selvey, I cannot think of any reason to try and replace him.
Augmenting the core team is one thing, but damaging it is quite another.
just a thought
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Change is inevitable, but how it is managed is not.
TMS has a long history of evolutionary change, e.g dropping Trueman and Bailey in the 90's.
However they were replaced with summariser who had been used before and now did more.
The problem I have with this summer's coverage is not that there are new commentators there are just too many of them. White is Ok and will develop.
Pougatch is just inappropriate, he constantly shouts as if he was commentating on football or tennis, (which he sould stick to) I switch off for his stints.
Alec Stewart has a major problem, his voice, its just unfortunate that a fine test cricketer has a voice that makes John Major's sound interesting.
As for dropping Selvey, big mistake, if you must have new boys they must learn from experience.
Aggers and CMJ remain the stewards of the TMS ship , but I fear the bosses of 5 live have decided to swamp it and destroy a wonderful institution in the process.
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I had assumed that the decision to remove Mike Selvey had been taken more by thew bigwigs than on a production level, but I am less convinced now. That does slightly disappoint me to be fair. Does the producer of TMS not appreciate good CRICKET broadcasting when he hears it? Does he not recognize intelligent comments when he hears them? Very scary if those things are true.
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Best wishes to Mike Selvey who has done an excellent job on TMS and is of course, also a front-line journalist. He brought calmness, judgement, maturity, common-sense, professionalism, and expertise to TMS. More of all the above would be welcome.
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My first post as this is a subject I feel so strongly about.
Listening to the final day's play at the Oval as I drove back from holiday through France was an absolute pleasure - just great TMS as you expect. I thought that Tuffers was not really up to it as a summariser, but would fulfill the roving reporter role well, and his spirit is a positive. CMJ and Aggers were, as ever, superb, and Simon Mann showed how much he is catching up with the broadcasting legends that these two, with Blowers, are. Then the bomb-shell! Aggers signed off as if Mike Selvey was leaving!?
Once back home, I checked the TMS site. Surely, if Selve was leaving, he would be given a fanfare of thanks on the blog. Nothing - a couple of comments asked the question, but no answer.
With Mike's own contribution here, it seems he has been poorly treated. The decision to drop him is a desparately poor one - I hope some real leadership can be shown which recognises when a mistake has been made and corrects it. It is shame that those who do not read the Guardian will not have access to his witty and perceptive comments - his piece on the Trent Bridge one-dayer was a classic! Blog 231 sums up Mike's contribution.
In the middle of the summer, it did seem the evolution of TMS had turned into a revolution. Blowers disappeared and a lot of relatively new voices appeared without any balance. So far, this has been corrected in the South African series, for which thanks.
Aggers, Blowers and CMJ are superb broadcasters - everytime they are on is a pleasure. They are and should remain the backbone, and, along with Simon Mann, the voices we can expect to hear (along with visitors from abroad, a key part of TMS).
I have no problem with any of the next generation, however. I am surprised at the reception Mark Pougatch has received on this blog, and feel that Arlo White will go from strength to strength. Earlier in the summer, the pace of change was disturbing. The next generation need to be brought on, but brought on gradually, and with a select band rather than a cast of 1000s.
Of the summarisers, Vic Marks is now in a league of his own. He is another great broadcaster. Mike Selvey was up there too, but now sadly, wastefully, dispatched. Boycott is fine by me. Foxy Fowler is still missed.
The others are much of a muchness. I enjoyed Alec Stewart, which puts me in a minority I know. My wife always complains when Graham Gooch is on - very dull apparently! There is nothing there to justify Mile Selvey's axing - if it can't be put right, I only hope the feelings it has aroused lead the powers that be to realise that the established broadcasters on TMS are a top quality asset which should be enjoyed as often and as long as possible.
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