Pietersen will bring a new style of leadership
For all the debate about the appointment of Kevin Pietersen as England captain, we can be sure of one thing: that his outgoing manner and style of leadership will be very different from the more reserved and thoughtful Michael Vaughan.
That is no bad thing at all - in fact, merely a change of style can have an immediate positive effect which the team certainly needs, and the other players will certainly rally round in support.
Let's face it, it is hardly in their interests not to be seen to be backing the new captain who will have his own ideas, and a honeymoon period in which to make changes...
Up until now, we have never really seen Pietersen under pressure because his ability as a batsman merely soaks it up.
He never looks as if he is struggling when in the middle.
But captaincy is very different - especially when the ball is flying all over the place in the field, or a stubborn partnership is threatening to take the game away from you.
That is when the we will see Pietersen , the captain, either remain cool, calm and display imagination and leadership, or lose his head completely.
Because he has had virtually no captaincy experience at all, it is impossible to predict which we will get.
Pietersen's appointment brings the role of coach Peter Moores sharply into focus.
Up to now, he has had the strong, and senior figure of Vaughan in front of him.
Moores is now, effectively the senior figure and it appears to be an open secret that Moores and Pietersen (and some other senior players) have not been seeing eye to eye.
Indeed, there was a meeting on Sunday between Moores and Pietersen which appears to have been held to clear the air between the two.
Moores now has no hiding place - his honeymoon period is over, and I suggest that he has until the end of next summer to prove his worth as coach.
From what I can gather, the selectors had no idea that Paul Collingwood had resigned as one day captain until they met to discuss Vaughan's replacement on Sunday morning (although we were told that he had resigned on Thursday evening)
That gave them the opportunity to unify the role, something national selector Geoff Miller was keen to do.
I gather that Rob Key was the second choice because there was no way of accommodating Andrew Strauss in the one day set-up.
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I am concerned that we have promoted from within just to ensure we have the same captain in all forms of the game. Nothing against KP but centrally contracted players don't get chance to captain their county and therefore do gain any experience. I would have gone for Rob Key who apparently has not only proved himself an excellent captain but has apparently improved tremendously as a player since his last international appearance. I wish KP all the best, he's going to need it.
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Aggers- that looks a bit generous to Moores, surely? His honeymoon ended with series lost to India and Sri Lanka in 2007. Another beating in India and he might not make the Caribbean, never mind the Ashes.
I'm all for forward planning, giving coach, captain and players 10-12 games to prove themselves. But constantly referring everything to the last or next Ashes is daft- there are six other teams to play in between, at least three of which are clearly better than England over the last two or three years.
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Wasn't Henry V thought of as a playboy until his leadership was tested in battle. "Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; Or close the wall up with our English dead"
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Maybe we should make the 12th man the captain from now on - then at least we won't be stuck with this problem of either ruining a good players performance through pressure or having to play someone out of form just because they are captain. Non playing captains are the future!
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I am convinced Pietersen will be a great captain because he brings the best out of himself in pressure situations and I'm sure he will be able to bring the best out of his players in similar situations. His self-confidence and belief will breathe new life in an England dressing room that has become afraid of success against big teams.
Much has been written about the manner of his dismissal in the 2nd innings of the previous test but the truth of the matter was he still scored more runs on his own than Strauss, Cook, Vaughan, Bell, Flintoff and Ambrose combined in that innings. And if he had hit him for 6 then we would all be heaping praise on the perfect way to achieve another magnificent hundred. Nobody seemed to criticise Collingwood's shot selection at excatly the same stage of his innings, although he did execute it better!
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I agreed with Muralis and am not too sure what Peter Moores has done to avoid the flak, whilst Vaughan has been hounded out by the media.
Moores took over a team that, one defeat against Australia apart, had beaten just about everyone else under Duncan Fletcher. Since he has taken over, we have beaten only the Windies and New Zealand, whilst losing to India, Sri Lanka and South Africa.
If it is true that he doesn't see eye to eye with the new captain and other senior players, I would question the wisdom of retaining his services.
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Like Moores, Pietersen will really have to prove himself to the selectors, the fans and indeed the world.
If England continue to play the way they have been so far in this series in the run-up to The Ashes then this appointment will have been a waste of time, and we shall surely see the end of Moores' tenure fairly soon.
However, if KP can fully command the respect of the other ten players in the side (I'd imagine he will be able to), then perhaps we may see an overhaul in the way England have been playing, hopefully both in the constant batting collapses in test (though I'm not sure how much the captain can really do about this at number 4) and the poor run rates and various other problems that have hurt England in one-day games.
One thing is certain. Change is needed.
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Aghhhh. No way of accomodating Strauss in the one-day setup. I can't believe they've insisted on this "one captain" policy and in doing so rejected choosing Strauss who has already shown his mettle as a test captain by winning a series against Pakistan 2-0.
Test cricket and one-day cricket are completely different animals, can't they see that? Test cricket captaincy demands guile and subtlety. Has anyone noticed either of those qualities in Pietersen? Ever? And in his own words, he has "zilch" experience of captaincy! I'm finding this all very frustrating.
I worry for the future when selectors seem to listen to the whims of marketing men to influence their choices.
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I am not a great KP fan, but I wish him luck. I am not sure if it is the right decision, but, as you say, a change in attitude is a good thing. And the English team certainly needs it.
Many test matches these days end within four days. With the more aggressive and positive attitude that will undoubtedly come to the team, at least in the short term, I can't see many even lasting that long. There is no doubt that test cricket is moving towards the one day form of the game and this appointment will only hasten the change. I hope it will serve to strengthen the long form against twenty20 and preserve it.
Overall a positive move and one I support (even though, as I said, I am not entirely sure it is the right decision).
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Aggers, You seem to be towing the standard line that Vaughan was a great captain, and real 'thinker'.. but on what basis is this made?
I can only the move to make KP captain as a positive, if only to shift the focus of the England team into playing to win, rather than seemly starting out beaten, as we have seen all to many times recently.
Vaughan is far from the exceptional captain he's been made out; the ashes aside (and you can argue that the series was an almighty fluke, regardless of captain), Vaughan has been shown up by all but the might of West Indies, New Zealand, and Bangladesh. How does this make him someone we'll miss?
An evaluation of the few wins he has notched up as captain against the 'better' sides in World cricket (notibly SA in 03/04) the tests won were despite him (he scored no better than the current series).
He has proved nothing more than mediocre as a captain, and while he showed superb form with the bat a few years ago, if England are to progress, this is the best thing that could ever have happened..
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
1. Most top class players can adapt to Test and ODI's otherwise they aren't top.
2 The top rated International teams have 2 or 3 players with the maturity and experience to take over the captaincy - .e.g Australia and SA and India.
3 English counties invite overseas players to captain their sides! The 3 countries mentioned wouldn't dream of doing that. So EQP's (England Qualified Players) have limited opportunities to gain captaincy experience and especially when they are centrally contracted.
4 Until the ECB and counties really develop English players from the grass roots and spend the huge amount of money available in nurturing home-grown talent we will remain short of proven candidates for senior jobs.
5.I suggest that Cook is an example of a player who HAS been nurtured properly since his considerable talent was identified. There should be more like him with leadership potential. The population of this country dwarfs Australia, SA, NZ,Sri Lanka, West Indies!!
Conclusion: Until we learn to produce a stream of top class young EQP's we will have no real choice for captaincy and teams that lack balance.
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Does anyone know why the selectors had to make a decision in such a rush anyway?
Strauss could esaily have taken over for the Oval test. KP would have been standing in for Collingwood for the next 3 ODI games anyway so could have finshed the series.
They could then have taken a considered and informed decision at the same time as selecting the touring teams for the winter.
The selectors look like they are as much "rabiits in the headlights" as the players have been recently.
The only happy people will be the marketing team who will think they can sell a lot more shirts.
I hope KP grows into the role and proves my doubts to be ill-founded.
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Like many of the other comments already posted, I am not sure it is the right decision but now that it has been made I wish KP every success and I am sure that he will do much better than MPV has done since returning from his knee injury a mere shadow of the captain that lead England 2003-2005.
Peter Moores job does indeed ride on the success of our new captain , and perhaps the other selectors too. Many thought Moores a poor choice as coach, and the awful results against the highest ranked nations show that he is worse than Duncan Fletcher as coach, well now he has a chance to turn around his poor start if KP can work well with him.
Bottom line is , that one week ago I expected England to lose the 3rd and 4th tests, today I am ready to bet money on England winning the 4th Test, because there is nobody in the world more eager to beat SA , leading from the front by example or more capable of inspiring the players with his lets kick their butts desire. I really think we are going to win at the Oval, and its a great feeling..........
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One of the many things that have impressed me about SA is their discipline and demeanour as they go about their business.When an England player gets a century the celebrations are as if they ve just beaten Don Bradmans's records.More substance less "style" and better results are what is needed.And then we go and appoint Pieterson as captain........ Can we start by having a proper wicket keeper like Chris Read.He may not have attitude and be a relentless sledger but he can catch the ball!
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It is a truly sorry state of affairs when they can't find an Englishman to captain the English team!!
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I'm sure that the press is lining up its Botham comparisons right now.
The best thing about Vaughan's resignation is that it allows him to recover his batting form with Yorkshire. I'm not convinced that KP's temperament is suited to the captaincy on a long-term basis, but as long as his form doesn't suffer, it has the potential to provide a catalyst for the rest of the side. No way to judge until the series in India's done.
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Hmmm - wish Pietersen well but have strong doubts that his appointment will work out. I feel he's too self absorbed and may be an easy target mentally for opposing teams.
Sadly, I feel in twelve months it'll end in tears. Pietersen being regarded by many as a "foreigner" wont help him either.
Personally I'd have gone with Rob Key.
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Where have the comments from Moores been throughout all this debacle? His silence is deafening. I'm no fan of yours Aggers because you are a journalistic "Chameleon".Changing your colours daily, " a la Tabloids," but this time you are quite correct !!
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Kevin will be a great Captain for England. We as Saffers give him greatfully to you.
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Pietersen as captain of England?
Speaking as a lover of cricket, who wants what's best for the game... Ouch. That's going to hurt.
Speaking as an Australian... hey, at least we get to keep the Ashes.
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A good column JA. It's nice to hear someone taking the wait and see approach. I've read so many people writing that KP is either completely right or completely wrong when the truth is no one knows yet.
I would have gone for Strauss as he's proven his Captaincy ability and was even begining to captain the one day game well when he drew with Pakistan who had been the run away favourites. He should have been kept on as Captain in 2006 and it makes me a little crazy that he has been unfairly over-looked yet again. I think Captains should be judged by how they perform in the field not this mysterious 'temperament' everyones talking about, Strauus performed brilliantly but as for KP we'll just have to wait and see.
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why are people so negative? we are moving into a new and exciting time of english cricket, let's look forward to it! pietersens a good player and hopefully he'll be a good captain but let's not write him off before the start!
as for people uptight about the whole foreigner issue, they didn't mind when he won the ashes for us, so why now? and if i'm right (i might not be) nasser hussain was born in india, strauss was also born in south africa and they've both captained us.
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It can't be very nice with half the snobbish cricketing fraternity writing you off before you've even got your feet under the table.
.
I say "Good Luck, Kevin, those of us without chips on our shoulders know you'll give it your best, and we all hope it works out for both you and the England Team"
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I think the decision is a bit harsh on Strauss - I don't have a problem with different captains for different forms of the game if needed.
That aside, what we'll really see now is what Moores is made of. It's been difficult for him to come into an established team with a strong and highly experienced captain (particularly one who still rated the previous coach so highly). Perhaps now, Moores can stamp his authority on the team much as Fletcher did. Whether it's the right authority remains to be seen.
One other thing - why was everyone so surprised at Vaughan's departure? I'd almost assumed it would happen on Saturday evening...
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kp has never been under pressure?
the odi series against south africa ...no pressure
on his test debut england were 21-5 at lords against the aussies and made top score 57.
at the oval 2005.............no pressure?
400 runs in the 3 live tests in 2006/7
coming out to bat against south africa at lords against dale steyn having cleaned up mv ....no pressure
taking on and ripping the sa attack apart at headingly and edgbaston (all too briefly)
what sets kp apart from ramps and hick etc is the ability to move up a gear when the pressure is on and to ignore a failure as a minor blip not a cause for endless soul searching.
by the way what balance will the team have on thursday: 4 bowlers wont do and 5 batters means one of strauss, bell, colly or bopara will be left out. bell to open?
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I was hoping the management would be brave and pick a captain who can bat, as opposed to a batsman who, well `might` be able to captain. Rob Key was my man, because personally I feel he is the next in line ahead of Shah for the no3 slot. Shah can turn it on with his quirkiness and showy attitude in one-day cricket - but Key is the solid professional who can succeed in both forms of the game.
That said, I am happy to support KP as a leader - he seems thoughtful and commited and his pluses will outweigh doubts, I hope.
I am also pleased to see Bopara in, however he should be playing in the Collingwood role, not the Vaughan role - hence my comments re Key.
A change of keeper to Read or Foster - either to bat at 8 behind Broad at 7 - and we would almost looking solid.
Good luck KP!
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Anger and aggression are usually a sign that an individual has a lack of discipline. Thus, not a good quality for a good captain to have especially in the 5 day format.
I agree, Strauss would of been the better option, he has a more calm and positive approach.
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The English cricketing public can be against Kevin, in favour of him, but can't play without him!
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We need to be balanced. On one hand we all want England to be successful and will give every bit of support. Once an individual has been accepted to play for a team he should have full rights, including to be captain.
On the other hand there is little evidence of a (cricketing) intelligence, just overwhelming ego in the new skipper. Above all other sports cricket needs a captain with nous and an astute brain.
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Why was Mark Ramprakash never considered as a candidate for captaincy ?
He is fit, in the form of his life and would have been the ideal person for a 2 year period with Cook as VC.
The need to have the same captain for all 3 forms of the game does not make sense. With the amount of cricket played, such a captain would be run into the ground very soon.
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The speed at which Vaughan and Collingwood left and KP was appointed was phenomenal, and I hope that it was not at the cost of calm consideration of all options and accommodation of the short and long term. Collingwood may have pre-empted the decision the selectors would have arrived at, having been presented with the opportunity to change both captains after Vaughan's resignation. Regardless of game format, it's difficult to reconcile an eligible 32 year old player being dropped from one squad but being captain of the other for too long.
Having said that, Collingwood's brilliant 100 does make it harder to drop him from the test squad but it would have been interesting to introduce Key to the squad for Vaughan (left / right hand opening options) and Bopara for Collingwood regardless of who was the new skipper. I do think a captain at number 4 is better as there is almost a guaranteed respite period in which to prepare for batting, having been motivating and arranging the bowling and fielding for two days. Radio 5 mentioned Key is good mates with Flintoff and Harmison, which Fletcher wasn't comfortable with and KP and Key may well now be a good new captain and vice captain package, leading to a nice blend of experience, attitudes, youth and talent throughout the squad.
That said it would be nice to extend that to the coaching team. When you think about it, Moores has escaped some of the spotlight which may well now change. To date it's been focused more on the players or the Administrators making it harder to form a measured view on them - other than on results. But wouldn't it be nice to see an experienced, vociferous and judicious ex-international introduced somewhere in the coaching team to inject a new edge and dimension to the setup?
Anyway, nuf said and thanks Aggers for a great summer so far on TMS.
Congratulations to KP - it's a new slate and I'll be rooting for you to do well.
Now go get those Ashes back.
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Give the man a chance!
He wasn't my first choice, but now he has the job let's support him, hope he does well and that we have a successful side.
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I agree with 'd1ckdrak' that the selectors should have brought themselves a little time and got Strauss to captain at the oval.
They could have then brought in Rob Key instead of Bopara to have a look at him and see how he settles into the team. If he gets some runs and settles then he's the best skipper by far for all three forms of the game and could have been appointed in good time before India.
Key could also groom Cook to take over in a few years.
I suspect the move for KP as skipper was also as much to keep him away from to $$$ at the IPL.
I also recall KP whinging last winter about how tired he was and in need of a break - well no chance of that now especially if he want to go to the IPL !
Still, as an England fan I hope he does well.
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Aggers, I bet you miss Vaughan, you seemed to have the perfect balanced relaitionship wth him, mutual respect but you weren't afraid to criticize.
I take it you are a little too wary of KP to say anything remotely negative as yet
For instance, I would have expected you to point out the glaryingly obvious point that a cricket captain should be the best criketting brain in the team, certainly not the most maverick player,
Secondly, and most amazingly after your consistent and vehement complaints around the English born Pattinson being brought into the team as, in your mind, he is an Aussie, while good old KP is most certainly less Englsh than Grimsby born Pattinson, yet not a dicky bird from you about that.
Why was Pattinson's inclusion for one test so galling for you but Pieterson for ENGLAND CAPTAIN, whose as South African as Zola Bud, doesn't warrant a mention?
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Let's be honest... whoever was appointed England captain would have divided the country between those who said he was the saviour of English cricket and those wanting to execute him (or those who chose him). That is the nature of the beast. You are never going to please everyone.
Only time will tell how successful KP will be, and surely all we can do in the meantime is support the team and judge him (and them) on results.
We are wonderful in this country at setting up 'heroes' and then taking pleasure in shooting them down again. I'm not a particular fan of KP and i'm suggesting 'blind sycophancy', but at least give the chap a chance before condemning him....
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Why are people upping Key so much?
As far as I can see he is averaging around 40 in CC, which isn't spectacular and would only be considered good at Teast match level and Kent have only won the 20/20 slog and not the championship.. so why is he considered to be a great captain?
Is there something I am unaware of, can some one please enlighten me?
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I think Michael Vaughan and Paul Collingwood met up over a beer, to end their respective shared captaincy. Their mutual falling on their swords is too coincidential and clean.
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Goochiewoochie - Good point re the IPL millions.
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Pietersen. Great batsman. There is no "I" in team. In his interviews previously, he never really mentions the team much. Still, that is not a surprise. Cricket is certainly full of individual battles within the wider team game. I sense in this country that we overstate the need to have a defined captain. Surely picking the 11 is best, then chosing the capt from that 11. There is far too much fanfare with this, as there was when Beckham was soccer skipper. The importance of the team and the win must surely rise above all else. I think England have more worries with the batting and balance of their side rather than a lot of pomp about the next skipper. Ambrose has also got to go. Prior and Foster must be streets ahead. Sidebottom looked sluggish. The batsmen as a whole must pull their weight.
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should have said 'im NOT suggesting blind sycophancy'...
oops, sorry
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There's not much more to be said now KP's in charge of both teams. There will be those who dislike the man himself or the fact that he's not born in England - but to me - credentials count for nothing. KP is the best player we have had (i.e. the most natural talent) since David Gower and I just hope that KP's captaincy and results are better than Gower's. For all Gower's many qualities - I personally found his captaincy lacklustre and uninspiring.
Will KP succeed? I wish him all the luck in the world - but I predict he will fail miserably. I suspect the fact that he seems to love the limelight will very soon fail because it now won't be on his terms.
I think KP loves the limelight because, quite simply, he's the best in the team and he knows it as do we. If either his performance slips (as most do when made skipper) or the team's fortunes don't pick up - the limelight that he enjoys "Well done KP, how did you feel when you were 150 not out having hit 20 off Brett Lee's over?" will soon become "Why didn't you bowl Fred instead of Sidebottom - we might have won the game otherwise?" which will be a difficult thing to handle. Remember Kevin Keegan's infamous remark "Failure doesn't come easily to Kevin Keegan"?
It now seems certain that, KP's results as captain notwithstanding, we will have an unsettled side for the Ashes. Normally I'd say this puts us at a loss but the Aussies are nowhere near the side they were and unless they unearth some gems this winter - it could actually be a 3rd/4th place battle because the best Test side in the world (to me) look to be India right now with SA probably 2nd. This takes no notice of the ICC rankings.
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Whilst standing by my original comment (ist post) if they did have to promote from within then the choice was easy. Whilst I believe Key should have brought in KP is not the selfish s** some people seem to think he is. All great players at any sport have a touch of arrogance but the way he nursed and encouraged Collingwood through the early part of his innings was tremendous. Cook could have been an alternative if going for youth as SA did with Smith but otherwise who else? Certainly not Strauss who although he did a great job in Pakistan seems to be hanging onto his position in the side by his fingernails.
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I see great things for england now incl. a possible world cup!!!!
Only joking guys, we know england are not yet at that level. They first have to concentrate on losing the ashes!
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RobM - having said there is 'not much more to be said', you go on for 4 full paragraphs...
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I don't understand why the only choices for captain seem to be our "best" batsmen. Having a natural talent for hitting the ball is barely connected with making strategic (or even tactical ) decisions in any form of the game. I wish KP all the best, but I fear the worst, and he is definitely an easy target for Aussies and Saffers to have a go at verbally if he slips just for a moment. And he can't resist risking all for personal glory.
In reply to an earlier post, the difference between KP's failed 6 and Collingwood's successful one, was that KP just hit the next available ball when he got to 94, whereas PC waited for a bad ball to hit, hence the difference in outcome. KP should have made 200 that day, but blew it.
Personally, my hopes are in hibernation until Stuart Broad has the experience to take on the captain's job...
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Good luck KP - you're going to need it. The next time England are 35-2 you are going to feel the pressure, for everyone is going to be watching just how you handle the situation.
If you play your normal game and get bowled round your legs whilst trying to reverse sweep a fast bowler, you are going to be vilified. If you play a 'respsonsible' innings and take 3 hrs to score 40, the pundits will surely think that you have been 'got at' by a poor coach.
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Vinnyroe - the reason why quality with the bat is a necessary consideration for choosing a captain is conveniently highlighted by the demise of MPV.
Whoever was appointed captain necessarily had to be assured of his place up to and including next summer's ashes, otherwise the selectors may be forced to change captains again. The only batsman who can be assured of his place until then is KP.
MPV was (in most peoples' eyes) a very accomplished captain, and when he was appointed was one of the very best batsmen in the world. Over time, however, his batting form faded away and led many people in the press and on these boards to say that he could not keep his place on captaincy alone.
The difficulty for the selectors is that KP is the ONLY member of England's top six that can be assured of his place at Test level, let alone in both forms of the game. Strauss, who is many peoples' choice for captain, was dropped only two series ago, and would have been dropped again had it not been for his 170-odd in NZ. Even since then, his form has been patchy and he has made no contributions of note against the Saffers. It is very possible that Strauss will be dropped between now and next summer's ashes and the same can be said for the rest of England's top 6, even if Cook and Bell currently look slightly more secure than Strauss and Collingwood.
If Rob Key was brought back in as a batsman alone, he would be under tremendous pressure to prove himself at this level, which he has failed to do in the past.
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Agree on batsmen vinny roe. what about aggers for capt?>
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What is it with this idea of having one captain for all three forms of the game? It doesn't really stack up from a team-unity point of view as they are such different formats they could easily have a different captain.
I can't help wondering that there is some more subtle meaning at work here. With the rise of T20 there is genuine fear within the ICC that T20 will split away from mainstream cricket and mainstream cricket administration (ICC). With the levels of revenue that IPL/Stamford are generating this will risk ICC coffers and more importantly risk the status of test cricket of the pinacle of the game.
Could the ECB's desire to have a single captain have more to do with a desire to ensure that the game continues in a unified manner, thus protecting their recently-discovered, lucrative income stream?
Whatever happened to best man for the job? Strange that possibly the next best test cricket brain (Straus) is not considered for test captain because of his inability to play limited overs (and obviously current lack of form).
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Why on earth do the selectors feel that wwe need one captain for all sides? Australia (who are not bad at the game) has gone for two captains.
Have we lerned no lessons from the last Ashes series? We promoted a talented but (by the nature of what he does) self-centred person to the captain's role. The result was a 0-5 whitewash. Are we destined to repeat this?
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I'm getting bored of this.
Vaughan was not "hounded out by the media." No-one in the media was calling for Vaughan's head, they were reporting the fact that he couldn't buy a run. This in itself would've placed him under pressure.
If Rob Key had been called in as captain it would have made English cricket the laughing stock of world cricket.
Not only would we have elevated a player who has not played interational, let alone Test, cricket for a number of years to the pinnacle of our national sport, but we would have been replacing Vaughan - a captain in the side simply because of captanicy skills - with Key - a captain in the side just because of his captaincy skills.
I love that everyone is playing judge jury and executioner - "His form will falter, he won't be a good man-manager, he's too selfish," blah, blah, blah.
Let us judge him when he has actually led the team on to the field shall we?!
I wish KP all the best, and hope he leads us to glory all the way through to the Ashes next year. Of course, if he does so it will have been for purely selfish reasons!
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What's with the pre-mod?
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If Rob Key was second choice, surely he should be included within the team??? D'oh!
Hopefully KP can 'push' Peter Moores out the door, and really ring the changes.
It's such a shame that certain past greats in English cricket aren't able to be more involved in the team's makeup.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well, it's broke, so do something about it. New captain is a good start, but don't just stop there. We had a chance to experiment in the next test, but again, the big cheeses do diddley...
How can Strauss still be in the team? And Collingwood? Bet they stay there until we lose the Ashes again.
Bring back Tresco...
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The key here is that England's batting had become weak with Vaughan at 3, or at least were perceived to be weak. That perception makes such a difference to the fielding opposition. They have felt 4 men out, all out, pretty much all summer. Bell at 3 should give us more cohesion.
Bopara has just GOT to be the man to galvanise England at no.6, a proper batsman but one whose bowling has been good enough to get him 20 1st class wickets this season. He is a good enough 4th seamer to bowl enough overs to give Flintoff a rest, though I did say that about Colly! Fred can also bat at 7, or even 8 if we find a quality batting wicketkeeper, so the side really does have balance with Bopara at 6 and 5 in-form batsman above him (assuming Collingwood is now in form! I still think Shah is a better bet for the Ashes).
Harmison MUST come back now, as I said before the last test. Two strike bowlers are better than one! So it's Sideo or Anderson to make way. I say Sidebottom needs to get properly fit again, he was well off the pace in the 3rd test, whilst Jimmy continues to frustrate at times. Tricky one.
I'll wager the selectors stick with those 2 seamers and leave our 2nd most potent fast bowler out again, meanwhile overbowling Flintoff and finishing his ankle off for good. Fools!
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Michael Vaughan is an outsatnding captain. There is no other captain in the side anywhere near his standard. Captaincy is an art in its own right, and he falls into the Brearley, Atherton, Benaud mould of those who understand the game so deeply that they are invaluable in their own right. A few years ago he was the best batsman in the world. He has not suddely become a bad batsman, just a batsman out of form. Class is permanebnt, form is temporary. The selctors should have told him all of this and persuaded him to stay on. You will not persuade me that the Vaughan package - captaincy, leadership, experience and runs ahead of him is worse than the Bopara option.
As for KP - he is just too reactive and emotional. See how many times he has failed to manage the situation he has found himself in as a batsman. Either he does not see situations (which makes him an unlikley captain) or he cannot control his instincts and bring objectivity to the cause. Brilliant and destructive though he is, he is not the man for the captaincy.
Without Vaughan I think it probably had to go to Strauss, but that option is also worse than a temporarily out of form Vaughan.
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Thanks hoody1975, I'll see if I can get time off my day job. If I can't the job's all yours.
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Oh Yeah, Rob Key should do it, that guy who's been in the Test team and knows all the players and has been in great nick for England against New Zealand and South Africa.
Not KP, who's just been knocking around in the county side for the past few months... Certainly not him...
Or have i got them mixed up?
KP is the right guy to do it- he'll roast those Aussie like my favorite KP Peanuts.
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Captaincywise, what the hell do any of us know? We've never even met any of the protagonists! Who would have guessed Gower was not that good at captaincy whilst Brearley was top notch? Only the pros can make an educated guess as to who can cut the mustard at the top level. They think KP can so that's the end of it as far as we amateur pundits are concerned.
I will agree that your captain needs to be worth his place as a player, esp if you're lacking proper fit batting allrounders, and you desperately want 5 bowlers.
Rob Key for Skipper by this time next year when we are 3 down against the ozzies. KP is bound to have jumped ship by then and run off to earn some serious cash somewhere.
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Bring back Tresco(total legend that is was)? Gladstone Small has more chance of playing for England again. Of course it must be Moore's fault... always blame the coach. It is the easy way out. The players need to face the responsibility. England is like an old boys club. If you don't wear the right tie, you don't get in. It was like that under Fletcher and it has been like that with the senior players until now. It's about time the coach put his foot down and made the XI play for their places rather than waltz in when they fancy.
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I have considerable experience as a team captain, albeit at a somewhat lower level than that of the England team. Nevertheless I don't suppose Pietersen will have dealt with the matter of fielders wearing the wrong colour trousers, smoking on the boundary. nor yet a wicketkeeper who insists on taking a half bottle of chilled white wine onto the field of play.
All of this affected my performance as a batsman and my average dropped from 8.2 to under 4 in a single season.
If we see a drop in Pietersen's average of over 50% will it have been worth it for his skills as a captain? I don't think so...
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Pieterson is not a team player. Lets see what happens in two/three days time.
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I think it's safe to read a little more into there being "no way of accommodating Andrew Strauss in the one day set-up". I think this means Twenty20 set-up which is now viewed (for sad financial reasons) as more important than ODIs. Strauss could easily open the innings in ODIs but Cook is more in favour. Strauss is slightly less convincing for the T20s (as is Cook!).
My guess is that Cook will captain in the future. It's a shame Key hasn't had an opportunity at Test level in recent years as he may have proved ideal in all forms, including T20.
Still, good luck KP. Good luck England.
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Quality Loadicean2!!! I think KP will command the respect of the England team, what with that tattoo and the dainty walk he does. I think the middle eastern neck worry beads may have to go though.
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Out if interest I though I would mention that this makes KP the 4th South African to captain England:
Tony Greig
Allan Lamb
Andrew Strauss
and now KP....
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Do people think he will bowl a bit more now he is Captain?
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So Bopara comes in for MV. Is he going to bat at three if we go for four bowlers? Will Bell be number three.well that's been tried before and why no mention of Shah who doesn't seem to have done much wrong. No 3 position is pivotal, a real horses for courses role. Here was a chance to put together a changed side in a dead rubber to see if any nuggets of talent grab the chance to get a place on the winter tours.
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Breaking news... A lass i know organises the sandwiches and cakes etc(from the caterers) for the lunches when england play at the oval. She has just been informed of a new menu than the reg one MVP chose. Not many people know that one of the team capt's duties is to fix the lunch and tea menu up pre match. She just told me that Ham chees and pickle are gone, tp be replaced by crab and weak american mustard?! Also, Smoked Salmon is given out and Red Pepper Humus is next in?! But get this, here is the really amazing bit... KP has asked that all the crusts be cut from the bread! There's the Dunkirk spirit.
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I can't afford £38 a month to watch Sky. I am not pretending to be poor but it is a massive expense.
Surely I have the right to watch my own national Cricket team for a reasonable fee? Without me and 50 million other English they wouldn't be able to call themselves England.
When will the ECB realise that they need to get more people watching the game, rather than going for short term gain.
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Aggers
It's completely pointless who captains the side if no one can see them on TV. At the moment, the only way to watch a cricketer on TV for my village is to either buy Sky or watch some abysmal reality programme on BBC1 about ballroom dancing.
I'm trying to start a cricket team here in very north Derbyshire - no Channel 5 here - and we've got kids who not only have never played the game, but never even seen one. How does the BBC answer that as part of their commitment to the notion of public service broadcasting?
Time for:
1, You to grill your TV bosses on how they think they're serving the wider community. It's odd that scheduling and budget knows no bounds when it comes to football finals.
2. Asking Giles Clark whether instead of using cricket's new millions to line KP's back pocket he would care to use some of the cash to buy back the TV rights from Sky and help out terrestrial TV.
[Personal details removed by Moderator]
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England should have won the last match against SA as smith had clearly gloved one ball from monty but that was not given....
these small small things changes the course of the match.....
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Solanki has his 1000 runs for the season. Any takers? Allthese rumours about the selectors going by numbers(Pattinson) if true seem to be used for bowlers only and not in form batsmen.
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Agnew - Good to know that Moores is your new whipping boy to be blamed for all the ills in cricket.
Can you let me know how long Pieterson's honeymoon will be before you start putting the boot into him at every opportunity like you did with Vaughan....
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Solanki may have scored lot of runs but he is definitely not a good player of quality spin bowling..and in test cricket you need to play well against murali and all
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Look, All this talk about problems in the dressing room is simply not true, its the press trying to find a story where there is none..... Of course there will be conflict, but conflict is good if managed in the right way. If you have no difference of opinion things will never get done. I can assure you that the players and staff are puzzled to how these stories have started. And quite frankly the players are little disspointed in Agnew for picking up on gossip genereated by the media and making it the core of his blog. Agnew in the players eyes has lost some credibilty, his blog is lazy and without foundation. Come on Jonanthon you can do better than that.
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Having Pietersen in charge is like putting Rooney as England Soccer captain. Fine player, potentially disastrous leader. Vaughan had to go, he was not contributing runs, but the captain needs a calm head. Strauss did a great job as captain, Collingwood too. Flintoff and Botham were disasters as captains, on and off the field, and here we go again....
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The ECB is overseeing a broken system in which apparently no native player can be raised to the rank of captain instead of 'naturalizing' a foreigner, as per ClarenceSquare's comments. And do you honestly think the South African's will let the cocky new English captain, who wasn't prepared to rise through the ranks in his own country, beat them at the Oval, even though its a dead rubber?? If you thought the Aussie's stuck it to him via his relationship with Warnie, just wait until the Protea's really test his application of his vast captaincy skills and we see whether KP's personal glory includes that of his adopted countries.
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True Solanki may not play Murali well but players only learn how to deal with quality bowling by playing against it. I just threw his name into the hat as since Marcus packed it in we do not have an opening batsman that can take the attack to the bowlers. Watching poor old Staruss struggling along is painful and puts more pressure on his partner.
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Despite the uncritical approval of Mr Agnew the process of appointment of the new England captain is incomprehensible, amateurish and catastrophically flawed.
There is a rich literature from the corporate sector on the constituent elements of 'authentic leadership' and its correlation with success. I doubt that even one of the people who appointed Peterson even knew of the existence of this literature - let alone had ensured that Peterson had completed one of a number of well validated tests that can provide a robust measure of authentic leadership potential - and help to dispel the dangerous myth of the 'merits' of charismatic leadership (cf Botham/Flintoff).
As, if not more, vacuous was Mr Agnew's 5 Live comment that it was wrong to question Peterson's 'tactical credentials' as they were, as yet, unproven. In that case it would make as much (and as little) sense to pop the names of the England Team into a hat and select the first name to come out.
Want to test Peterson's tactical nous? Ask him where the flagrant flaws were in the tactics employed by England in the South African second innings at Edgbaston - when their quick bowlers had no coherent and sustained method of bowling at Smith. It does not take a tactical mastermind to recognise that bowling a foot outside off to a packed offside would have strangled his flow of runs, put far more pressure on his partners and taken the game, at the very least, into a final day - when a refreshed attachk might still have won a game that was abjectly surrendered.
If he has as little clue as did Vaughan (or Moores) then he should not even be considered.
I groaned when I heard on Five Live that Gooch had 'backed' Peterson for the captaincy. Gooch was a prime example of someone who led by strength of personality but had no strategic and almost no tactical acumen - I remember him losing a Test to Pakistan in circumstances not dissimilar to Edgbaston when Wasim and Waquar (as batsmen) were allowed to take the game away from England in a post tea fourth day session.
Captaincy demands an unusual blend of leadership, man-management, tactical insight and reactive flexibility. The failure to distinguish these discrete elements of captaincy lies at the heart of much of the muddled (absence of) thinking about the next England appointment (and that of Vaughan's stand-in for the last Ashes).
The oft-repeated mantra that you need one captain for all forms of the game is simply silly. The nature and balance of demand in relation to the above elements is utterly different in each specific format. Does anyone seriously believe that the same kind of tactical insight is required to make bowling and field changes in the stir-fry of 20/20 as in the slow roast of a Test match.
The importance and impact of captaincy is directly proportionate to the length of a format - in 20/20 the impact is negligible - in Test cricket significant.
An excellent captain is a necessary precondition to - though not a sufficient cause of - success in the next (and subsequent) Ashes series.
Just as absurd as the clamour for 'one' captain is the notion that you need (or should tolerate) one coach for each of the profoundly different formats of the modern game. Imagine a sprinter being coached by someone whose specialism was the marathon - or vice versa.
It was always clear that Fletcher was a marathon/Test coach, bored and distracted by one day cricket. Moores, at best, may be an adeuate 'limited overs' (not 20/20) coach.
England need new coaches and new approaches to each form of the game - it is possible that the same players may be picked in different formats and by these different coaches - but if so it should be on format specific merit - not the force majeur of being members of an 'elite'.
Who is the best Captain - well, possibly within 20/20 and under the direction of an authoritative coach, Peterson might be adequate. In the longer limited overs version, Robert Keyes - were he not the best of the available Test Captains. That he very probably is - though robust diagnostic tests, tactical simulations and 360 degree evaluations would be needed to test out what is (in the absence of substantial evidence) little more than a hunch (albeit, in his case, informed by an impressive track record as captain of Kent).
Who would be the best Test coach - without a shadow of a doubt (and if prepared to take on the task), Shane Warne. Had he, rather than Ponting captained Australia in the last series in England our single recent Ashes success would, in all probability, never have occured.
Finally, there needs to be robust, authoritative and effective Governance of the risibly styled 'Team England'. Governance, I hasten to add, is neither leadership nor management - though such a distinction seems to be lost on the ECB, Geoff Miller, Peter Moores and Michael Vaughan - until the latter became, in the Pattinson incident, a victim of the resultant confusion. The task of governance is to establish strategic priorities and goals, to prescribe the means that can legitimately be employed and to ensure that the necessary executive leadership and management is in place and remains accountable for performance and the pursuit of the strategic goals to those who govern.
Cricket is a multi-million pound industry with a (an extremely expensive) governance, leadership and management infrastructure whose complexity and muddle would shame a local charity. It is high time that it entered the 21st century. Until it does so we should not be surprised that abject confusion and incompetence at the top finds a painful echo on the front line - whether at Lords, Melbourne or Cape Town. It is equally certain that no world class coach would agree to work within such a dysfunctional and dreadful structure - only the needy and the no hopers will accept - thus perpetuating a dispiriting cycle of false expectaion and disillusioned failure
Yours despondently
Professor Paul Stanton
Northumbria University
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Millsy - the implication from your post is that you are part of, or at least close to, the England set-up?
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I am very saddened and bitter about what has happened to MV and returning to the office today I couldn't wait to have my say. Firstly I would like to thank MV for all his efforts over the last 5 years and admire the courage and dignity of his resignation, the sniping from the media and ill-informed clueless cricket fans have put paid to him. My first thought was he hasn't even reached Atherton's mark of captaining England, who is the worst capt. we've ever had, it defies belief. It seems most of you agree that it we have lost a great leader and captain. The point about Collingwood finding his form why not MV I think is particularly relevant. Surely the whole point is to replace players with better, if you can't then don't change for the sake of it. There have been accusations that England have become a cosy liitle shop but I just can't see that, where are the players better than we currently have. If someone is knocking on the door then fair enough, but I can't see one. Those talking about Strauss and Bell as capt. HA I almost fell off my chair, two months ago they were playing for the places.
Ultimately MV has paid the price for Moores, Miller and Morris the 3 incompetent M's and until they go we won't get better. Bopara at full tilt is not as good as a half tilt MV so we are already a batsmen short. KP as captain is a backward step and I fear for the future.
This latest episode has disillusioned me so much that I think thats it with the game, let the Agnews and Athertons have it, bitter twisted ex players with medicore records. As for some of the fans writing in I wonder what planet they are from, has anyone else noticed that west country supporters seem to have it in for MV more than others?
The quote from the bloke in Brum about now Ambrose batting at 8 there is more balance is hilarious, he shouldn't be batting at number 8 in the England Z side never mind the A side, I wonder frankly whether he's good enough at county level. Another example of local bias for a player at the expense of England.
Graeme Smith is not known for handing out praise to anyone never mind the opposition, his words sum up how our opponents view MV and we should listen (RESPECT), Ponting must be laughing his head off. I fear all is lost for next few years I just hope I get the chance to see MV cover drive one more time at test level, I fear not though as I can't see another captain working with him or Moores for that matter, they know they are inferior and quite rightly would find themselves undermined. So goodbye and good luck MV the last 5 years have been memorable, even this series has been griiping despite losing hope you win a championship with Yorks as a farewell.
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Rob Key? Since when has a player not good enough to play for England ever been made captain?
In his 15 tests he has amassed a total of 775 runs at an average of 31. Yes, his highest test score is 221, but against a Windies side that England beat 4-0, the first time England has ever won all the Tests in one series against West Indies.
He has averaged the following against top opposition:
Australia: 17.63
India: 27.00
SA: 25.5
Sorry, he may be a great 'captain' but he's not a very good player, simple as. Sorry Rob.
The ECB have rushed blindly into a decision again. I would like a sole captain of the team in all forms of the game, but there is no point unifying the role of if there is no-one suitable.
My view. Strauss for test captain, KP for shorter forms.
Graeme Smith was 22 years old when he was handed the captaincy of SA and look how they're repeaing the rewards now! That decision was criticised as it was felt that he had shown 'few leadership credentials'. Groom Alistair Cook for the role either before or after the Ashes!
I just wonder what the Aussies are thinking of all this!? Probably crying into their Champagne!
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My only comment to the selectors would be "KP - Nuts!"
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SeLondonWloves...
How about Christopher Cowdrey...?
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cityboy105....
I rest my case!
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How the hell can Rob Key be in contention???? I just don't get it, it's like saying Trevor Sinclair should be captain of England football team because he's playing well and he played for England 2 yrs ago or so.
The suggestion that a player who has hardly played for England be in contention to lead let alone anchor a place in the team ... if it was made within the footballing circles would be ridiculed to the rafters.
No wonder we're light yrs behind the Aussies, they pick the team first and then the captain. That's just not common sense but sane at the same time. Name me another International captain who has come in from the blue without playing for the team in the last 2 yrs and then appointed.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Why is everybody so worried about KPs birthplace?
Don't forget that other England Cricket Captains have been born abroad -
Andrew Strauss, Allan Lamb and Tony Greig in South Africa, Nasser Hussain and Colin Cowdrey in India, Tony Lewis in Wales, Mike Denness in Scotland, Ted Dexter in Italy, Donald Carr in Germany and Freddie Brown in Peru.
That makes 10 of the 35 captains in the last 60 years!
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Good point Murphy100. Having said that there is surely an argument for him getting another chance as watching Strauss struggle is painful.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Prof Stanton promulgates a wonderful thesis regarding selection of a captain for our test team - by comparison against established leadership criteria. But clearly there is a major flaw when the answer comes out as Rob Key - Kent don't look like winning anything this season.
Prof Stanton would also do well to recognise that the captain should also be worth his place in the team - which Key certainly is not.
I certainly wish KP well in his new role and fervently hope that he is successful - but Alastair Cook is the future, and he should be ready to take the reins of leadership when the need arises.
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I’m disappointed that no one within the England camp picked up on Michael Vaughans state of mind. He needs to recharge his batteries and start enjoying cricket again. Had this been identified he could have been given the option of returning to County cricket, a winter spent at home and the opportunity to return as captain, form permitting, in time for The Ashes series. Instead a very proud man was backed into a corner and left very exposed for all to see.
With respect to KP I’m not sure anybody really knows what to expect and more importantly whether the added responsibility will impact on his batting. I feel the choices were limited being either uninspiring or just as risky as the appointment of KP. It could be argued that Rob Key may have been worth a try although coming straight into the side as captain would have bought added pressure.
I often see KP described as a selfish player which, if true, suggests his time in charge may prove a struggle. Personally I find a lot of the criticism completely unjustified. For sure he is very driven to succeed but whats wrong with that? His individual achievements with the bat can only benefit the team. His second innings departure at Egbaston seems to have provoked near universal condemnation. It was actually the same shot that Collingwood reached his century with. How ironic that a lesser batsman so desperately out of form was able to execute the shot more successfully than one of the worlds best. I suppose everything would have been fine had he edged tamely to the keeper playing defensively? I for one am prepared to keep an open mind and judge his leadership on merit but most of all pray that the responsibility doesn’t change his approach to batting.
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If it really is true that Strauss was not considered for the captaincy because he is not part of the one day set up, how can that possible elevate Key to second choice?
If they think Key is, in contrast to Strauss, worthy of a place in both squads, then why hasn't he been selected? If they don't think he currently merits a place in the squads, then how can they suggest that he, again in contrast to Strauss, is a plausible option as captain?
Selection isn't simply, even predominantly, a matter of logic and clear thinking. But if selectors aren't capable of thinking clearly and consistently, then it makes it all the more likely that they'll get things wrong.
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Ah yes, Professor Paul Stanton of Northumbria University, but for all your wise and long comments about the ignorance and inadequacies of the selectors (I agree), and your comments on Aggers (I disagree) at least we can say one thing about all of them:
they know how to spell Pietersen!!!
:-(
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I hope that KP turns out to be a great captain - we will just have to wait and see. I'd also like to say thanks you to Michael Vaughan for representing his country so well. I really hope that he recovers his form and enjoys his cricket.
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I don't think that KP from SA is the issue, I think its why he came here, his previous experience and the dirth of players that have been groomed/have capacity to take the reigns which is disturbing - and BTW Boulanger46, it's more than 10!
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19990627/ai_n14226428
I bet the Aussies are licking their lips
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I have some reservations about KP as the skipper , but surely we should give him a chance?See how he goes before complaining about the appointment, no?
Also cannot see why the push for Robert Key: Strauss was apparently not a chance because he wasn't in the one day team, yet Key hasn't been in either team for years! Doesn't seem logical.....
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Throw away your wicket: lose England the test; lose England the series; and what reward do you get?
England captaincy.
How's that for performance related benefits!
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O
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I guess the reservations that most people have relate to the fact that KP has on more than one occasion failed miserably to appreciate the tactical position of games he has been in a position to influence. Cavalier innings on several occasions during this SA series have diminished his efforts in my opinion and it appears SA have got his number or should I say his ego. The last test was a classic example where a more aware approach may well have brought him a big century, avoided the exposure of two new batsmen and their wickets late on the 3rd day and given England a chance to put real pressure on for the last two days. For me its the difference between being a very good England player and potentially a great England player and before it gets mentioned the feeble and inconsistent efforts of the other batsmen in the team don't excuse the above failings.
Saying all that I hope the captaincy focuses his immense talent and I wish him all the very best.
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Well if Key was the other possibility, then they have made the right choice. The captain just has to come from the team in the modern age. There just isnt space for a Mike Brearley any more. Key might be good enough for tests, but he has still to prove that. And I would have Shah ahead of him at the mometn, if only because Shah hasn't really had a chance to prove himself yet. But I am not sure I wouldn't have Jon Denly in front of Key as well.
But I do think Strauss was the best pick for tests, with Cook in the frame as well. By all means give KP the OD captaincy if nbeither of those was gonna fitr in, but its a bit ridiculous to say that Strauss couldn't bre found a place in the ODI team, ans that made Key a possibility, geven Key's ODI record.
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Profpas - very interesting views. I wonder if you're a professor in business management, or even statistics?
I don't think the kind of tests/analysis you're talking about are necessarily applicable to the England Cricket Captain. I think rather than such an approach being measured and logical it's actually naive and simplistic. Not everything can be done entirely with numbers, and certainly not something as complex as an individuals personality and ability to lead. Although I accept that such tests might be in part useful, I wouldn't use them as such a definite indicator in assessing the best candidate.
What will be most attractive about your approach is that it claims to provide certainty. Unfortunately, despite all the provisions in the world, this choice cannot be made with absolute certainty, or anything approaching it. I'm a big fan of stats and analysis (it's my job), but the most important knowledge is that they are not absolutes and that there will always be unpredictable parameters effecting any outcome.
I'd seriously question that in 20/20 tactical nous is of no significance too, I think Shane won the IPL for Rajasthan with his captaincy, against significantly stronger sides. They were the rank outsiders remember.
The key thing I absolutely agree with is how disillusioned everyone feels about the structure of high level cricket in England. I think some of the more sophisticated analytical methods could be of great value to us at one level, and successful paradigms from any other sector could be adopted in the organisational structure and decision making process of the ECB. It's a progressive way to approach our current problems, we really must look forward now.
As for Vaughan his time has gone, the criticism (especially as a batsman) was justified and we should just thank him for being a brilliant captain and a great bloke and move on.
Ultimately I'm backing KP, I just hope he does well.
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Well, even if it isnt the right decision, at least its a bold one, might shake a few of those that are too cosy at the moment. For me this would be the ideal time to chuck Moores out, and the rest of his ragamuffin bunch of coaches. Get a coach who shares KP's guts and determination and that will be a good start. I anticipate seeing a new look Ian Bell for instance, whose nerves of jelly always seem to be his downfall, maybe KP's influence will help him somewhat.
Personally I would have gone with Key but I admit that it would have been bizarre. Now is the time for wholesale changes.
My Test XI for the 4th Test would be:
Cook, Strauss, Bopara, KP, Bell, Prior, Flintoff, Broad, Sidebottom, Jones, Panesar.
If we are going to go with five bowlers then I think that opens the door for Prior to return at 6, keeping wicket.
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I think it's great to see a South African captaining England. Next up i'd like to see a Kiwi opening for the Windies and a Sri Lankan playing for Ireland.
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KP being captain for me is not the issue. Peter Moores is one lucky man if he was in charge of a premiership football team he would be under severe pressure at this moment. Can he inspire this current crop of players as Fletcher did or will he continue to come up short?
I agree with Nassar Hussain, it is time for the real Peter Moores to stand up.
We have gone backwards over the the last 12 months and have yet to replace Trescothick at the top of the order and we miss Simon Jones and the reverse swing that he brings to the party (And at pace!!!).
This is indeed a crossroads for many in the England set up not least Mr Moores and the selectors.
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I read another blog recently comparing Peter Moores to Steve McLaren......alarm bells ringing yet?
Anyone think Nasser Hussein would make a good England coach?
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I commend the excellent and pertinent remarks regarding the process of appointing a captain by Prof Stanton (see #79) particularly the folly of filling the post without a rigorous interview or audition process. However, it is hardly Pietersen's fault that the job has fallen into his lap so easily. Personally I think Strauss was unlucky to be overlooked, but two factors sway me towards Pietersen. 1) Strauss is perhaps too similar to Vaughan in character and approach, calm, thoughtful, phlegmatic and analytical. These are qualities which may see him captain one day, but for now a more forceful, ebullient character is necessary to shake the team from its apparent comfort zone 2) Whatever people say about Pietersen's tendency to throw his wicket away (a daft criticism - all batsmen get out to bad shots, KP just attracts more attention because he does it after scoring more runs) he is his own biggest critic as JP Agnew rightly pointed out following the infamous dismissal last Friday. As Nasser Hussain found, it is very difficult to read the riot act to underachieving or lazy players without the personal success and self-discipline which commands respect. I would suggest, perhaps controversially, that Pietersen's excellent batting record combined with his driven focus for self-improvement make him an ideal motivational force for the team. I have every confidence that his determination and capacity to learn from mistakes will mean tactical shortcomings are swiftly overcome.
By the way I quite liked the suggestion of a non-playing captain. Unfortunately its against the Laws of the Game.
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Two words that settle the whole argument
Rob Key
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#96 bdaleboy - thanks for directions to an interesting web-page. But still only the 10 overseas-born captains in the past 60 years - all the others, including Harris, Jardine, Warner and Allen were pre-war.
But you're probably right about the Aussies!
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We might do better if we used Prof Stanton's analytical methods to select the selectors and coaching staff rather than the captain....
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KP is a solid batsman. He is young and competitive. Like many other South African cricketing greats, he could emerge as a leader of considerable merit. Best of luck to him in his new role as England skipper.
Dr. Cajetan Coelho
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why are no questions being asked of Moores?Why in his interviews again today does he come across as being "above" it all?"We decided this about....We decided that"-Who are you to decide these things Moores-youve proved nothing in this job since getting it.Its patently obvious the players dont respect this guy yet still no questions are being put to him about his role when people get the chance.Everything thats leaked out over the last few days suggests Moores is a man desperately trying to swim out his depth.England have lost a fine captain but retained a non-entity as a coach,how has that scenario moved us forward?
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'AndyNCCC' - yes, Pietersen helped us win the Ashes in 2005, but he didn't win us the Ashes, no one player did that!!! and if u are going to credit it to 1 player (which, if u ask me, is a stupid thing to do anyway) then credit it to Flintoff!
Our bowling attack won it for us, with the help of Strauss, KP, etc.
how can u possibly think that 1 player won us the Ashes???!! - there's 11 players playing the game!
PS. I am, however, a fan of KP's batting, he's quality and also a good fielder.
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I am a bit sad that some are dissing MV's captaincy skills.
I have followed cricket since the early 50's and for me MV was on a par with Bearley and Illy as the other 2 outstanding England Captains I've seen. His calm authority - imaginative captaincy - his ability to lead and inspire were outstanding. Lest we forget he not only led us to a glorious Ashes triumph but in the process thoroughly outcaptained Ricky Ponting.
We should never underestimate the effect his knee operations have had. Also as he said, a succesful captain needs good players around him. The 2005 Side never played again following the Oval - in fact one could legitimately say that the true Ashes Team which included Simon Jones began to break up after Trent Bridge. The loss of Simon Jones was huge - as was the loss of Trescothick - the temporary losses of vaughan and Freddie had a huge impact on the Team and let us not forget that the much derided Giles played a pivotal role in England success. 2005 has bitter sweet memoies for me.The sweet memory is of the best England bowling attack I have seen since the 50's - the bitter memory is not knowing just how great that Team but for major injuries could have become. As MV was left on Saturday with just one truly world class bowler in his attack to bowl out SA his thoughts must have wandered back to 2005 when he had 4 !!
All the best KP. I think it should have been Rob Key but you deserve your chance. But to be succesful somehow you will need a vastly better bowling attack.
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I would have preferred Robert Key as captain instead of Pietersen. I think that this cosy set up in the England camp needs a complete shake up and a new face might do it. What have we won with the same old faces since the Ashes in 2005? Wins (just) against a poor New Zealand side and defeats against Australia, the World Cup, India, Sri Lanka and South Africa! Key might have people looking over their shoulders. Pietersen is a fine player but too much of an individual to make a good captain. If he had got his own way on selection policy in South Africa, he would be playing for them now and not England.
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I cannot help but believe that this is wrong. KP will get victimised by the public if he fails 1 time. He will immediatly become an outcast and be hounded. He is a natural talent and should have been just left alone to do his thing.
Should he fail then he will become the Saffer in the English side who doesnt understand the English mentality.
I dont personally want this to happen but can see it unravelling before my eyes.
This IS how fickly the english media and supporters are. This is a job that KP just cant be successfull in.
I for one feel sorry for him and English cricket, you have taken a talent and can only destroy him.
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Appointing KP is a bold move, and I hope it comes off but I can't help but feel that the current selectors, especially the chairman, are doing a poor job and it doesn't seem to make much sense to appoint a bold new captain and keep the same squad of under performing players! Foster, Shah and Key should all have been given a go.
As for Moores - as a previous correspondent mentioned - his honeymoon ought to be well and truely over, we are going from bad to worse.
The two ex number two's should be replaced promptly if things don't improve and maybe the next manager/coach will have less backroom staff but perhaps more of an idea of how to make players perform on the test stage.
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Read Mike Atheron's column in the Times about serious disharmony between Moores and senior players. I think there' s a lot more to MV's resignation than we know.
Seeing KP's press conference was like seeing a prisoner between two grim-faced jailers. My first thought was 'You've been boxed in, mate'. A very clever move, flattering his ego to prevent him dashing off to the IPL(in which he has expressed a great deal of interest from the money point of view). Strauss and Flintoff hardly gave a ringing endorsement either.
If Moores imagines that being captain of the team won't affect KP's batting and everything else he is in cloud cuckoo land. The captaincy involves so many pressures and doesn't just mean leading a team on to a field. KP hasn't a clue what he's let himself in for.
Miller and Moores have allowed Vaughan to take the rap for their incompetence and should go.
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Girlfanlondon post 118,
You make some excellent points, what on earths going on there. This all stinks of hidden agendas.
KP, i feel, has left himself open. He cannot do well in this position.
Is this scapegoat making before the fact???
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The captain is chosen and he's the only one we'll have for a while, so let's back him.
We can still discuss the team though... above all we MUST play five men who, however they bat, are serious bowlers. We can't hope to bowl opponents out otherwise and that's what it takes to win Tests. We have been going in with four Test-class bowlers because the batsmen have been underperforming. It is a matter of personalities whether carrot or stick is a better way to get individual batsmen playing better, but that is where something needs to happen.
Also: which five bowlers? I say Sidebottom, Flintoff, Broad, Simon Jones, Panesar. Freddie obviously, when fit; Sidebottom likewise, he simply needs a rest just now. Simon Jones has always been a dangerous Test bowler when fit, and he is fit right now; I do not understand why the selectors prefer Harmison who has disappointed at Test level for several series. Monty needs to be backed to give it air rather than just tie an end down, which I hope KP will do (unlike Vaughan). Broad is accurate and is learning all the time, a perfect foil to a fierier bowler at the other end - and a genuine allrounder in the making.
If that team performs to its talent then we have nothing to fear.
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5 minutes in moderation WHY???
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Has KP grown up enough to lead England? Don't we remember the childish jelly-bean episode not that long ago? As the captain of England, KP will have to be a lot more mature than what he was a year ago...
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Girlfan
So this is where you are hiding out away from the 606 mad house.
Its not often that me and you disagree. With regards Vaughan I think he was a great captain but like all leaders they have a life span. I believe he found it hard to develop the same bond with Peter Moores that he had with Duncan Fletcher. If the captain and coach are not united The team never will be.
Nobody knows how Pietersen is gong to handle or deal with the captaincy but I fail to see why he should be more burdened by this than Cook or Strauss. He has shown that he can a lot of pressure.
I hope that Pietersen uses his cricket brain to good effect in the captaincy. It could be what he and England need he could change from a good player to a great one
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123. At 6:35pm on 05 Aug 2008, eirebilly
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Well done :-)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I obviously wish KP all the very best however I think the captaincy will have a negative effect on his game. If england want to be competing with the likes of south africa, australia and india in the future then you need a firing KP.
I think the england selectors have missed a real trick by not making Cook captain.
He is young, clever and I believe the extra responsibility would have raised his game.
Anyone that knows their cricket will know what a good cricket brain Cook has for a young man. The guy has pedigree and has captained England at all age levels prior.
This does not mean he will make a good captain however it does makes him a better option than Pietersen in my opinion.
Only time will tell and I hope KP proves us doubters wrong.
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I cannot believe that this decision had to be made within twenty four hours. As a result a hasty and risky decision has been made which could so easily backfire. That having been said I wish KP all the best but in so doing I do not consider that he has the correct leadership skills for the job.
Surely a temporary appointment for the last test and one dayers could have been made which would have bought some time for perhaps Rob Key or anyone else to have been looked at in the live arena.
I do not think that the correct attributes for a captain have been examined and different personalities tested against those requirements.
Come to think of it I do not think they were applied when Moores was chosen.
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Dear Cambridgecitycenter,
The jelly bean episode was not a childish prank but a tactical move by KP to get something out of the pitch.
I think Paul Collingwood had to go after what happend in the NZ ODI run out saga. Definitely not fit to lead a side.
All the very best KP!!!!
But I wish you win the ashes but loose to India 2-0 this winter.
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I was really surprised when MV decided to retire as England captain. Probably a bit one eyed but I think he was probably the best test captain in world cricket today. Punter is obviously up there as is Smith but for tactical nouse and willing to change those tactics it has to be Vaughan. A great shame that he has departed. I hope that after his break he is back to his best and back in the test side, if for nothing else he deserve to go out and a high.
However having said that I am really excited about KP as captain. He has that never say die attitude which will no doubt count against him on occasions but will also add to England and drive them forward. He may lack the experience but he has the abilty to be a fine captain. I am sure that Vaughan will be a regular adviser for KP. To all his detractors give the man a chance to shine, get behind him and the team. Good luck KP
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Rob Key? How on earth can you make a case for him to Captain England? His batting isn't good enough to get himself a place in the team, yet people want him as skipper? Incredible.
Strauss would have made a good captain but he's struggling for runs and we'd be back to where we started with Vaughan, criticising him for lack of runs and calling for his head.......
KP was the best option unfortunately - I'll wait to see what I happens but I'm a little apprehensive..... he's already proven he rises to the challenge, so let's see what he does
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come on aggers, now you're just looking for things to moan about...
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
To whoever it was that referred my post, I'd love to know just which House Rule you think it was that I've broken.
And to the Mods, I realise that you're busy, and I understand the Pre-Mod status going on atm, but if you could take less than a week to make a decision this time, I'd appreciate it.
Thanks.
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Kp - Great batsman but could he have done a Graham Smith - last test ?????
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It is a sorry state of affairs when we have to look outside our borders for a leader. Why is there no one in the English system ready to take the job?
Not to say Pietersen won't do a great job though...
In management, we always put people through leadership and management courses before taking management responsibilities. Why not do this with our cricket leaders. It makes sense as this is not a natural role for most people.
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About time. I would have made him skipper before the world cup last year.
Vaughan has been living the life of the golden boy for a long time, injured for how long and straight back as Captain without any form to go on? now that told me about the selectors and their selections.
Good luck KP and I think he will emulate the SA captain to a certain extent in that he will decide on the field and rule the team instead of the committee style that Vaughan used. Lets have some positive decisions on the field and keep the committees in the selection rooms.
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I thought that profpas's comments, #79, were extremely interesting. It is good to see that there are people prepared to spend more than a little time making such valuable contributions to the blogs.
I have spent most of my working life in business and know a little about the techniques he is suggesting, in this case for the selection of a new England captain. Unfortunately, most of the sporting enterprises I know are light years away from being able to indulge in such desirable practices. To be honest, it is not so long ago that they were first introduced into business enterprises, and that was for a very good reason.
Boards of Directors were increasingly being made accountable for the success or failure of their businesses and, apart from matters such as marketing, manufacturing and financial strategy, one of the key things was seen to be capturing the best very people, training, coaching, nurturing and assessing them regularly. And another vital part of the process was, and is, leadership succession planning.
There are a couple of reasons why this is not happening in England cricket, and maybe not only here, is that, firstly, nooone is really accountable for results: it's not part of the culture. It is only when a noble character like MV, who has made a really important contribution to English cricket, both as batsman and captain, decides to resign that we can feel that someone has taken responsibility. But, of course, he was never the guilty party and those that might qualify as the villains, the selectors, who have made some very bad mistakes in the last couple of years, rub their hands, glad that the s..t hasn't hit their fan, and continue on their happy way.
The other is that, unlike in a business entreprise, where many top managers will have been around for years and could well aspire to the top job --. in other words, the enterprise will have had the opportunity to identify the best of them and groom him/her for the job --, in a cricket team like England's, very few players have been able to establish themselves as fixtures, candidates for the future top job. Just on that criterion, and I agree it is not at all sufficient, KP is probably the best choice.
Sometimes business enterprises enter into crisis, need to change the management and bring in a new leader from outside, since there doesn't appear to be anyone internal on the horizon. A recent example of that might be Northern Rock in England, an enterprise that had usually filled top management vacancies internally but, at the moment of nationalisation last February, really had noone to take the top job. All the internal candidates had been more or less discredited by the bank's recent fortunes.
So the Government brought in Ron Sandler, former CEO of Lloyd´s of London and COO of NatWest Bank, someone who would immediately be able to command the respect of his co-executives and all the rest of the team.
This kind of thing just doesn't happen in cricket and probably never will. The only analogy I can think of is that of Ricky Ponting deciding he has had too much of the boringly sunny climate of Tasmania-- you didn't know that, did you? -- and that his mate Justin Langer got it just right, so he comes to Somerset (we need you Ricky, just as a batsman, becacause Langer is doing an excellent job as captain) and decides to become a naturalised Englisman. Peter Moores wakes up bleary-eyed one morning, reads the news, written by Aggers of course, and realises that he may just be able to be save his job, since he really hasn't done much to justify his post and salary for a very long time; and calls Ponting to offer him the job as England Captain.
Well this is all fantasy and is not going to happen, is it? I suppose I only mention it because there really isn't an "external" solution to the captaincy issue. To think that Robert Key might be the solution, well everything I have said before should be sufficient to demonstrate why I think it is not very credible. Someone brought in from outside would need to command the total respect of his troops and, for no fault of his , he can't do that.
Unless he were someone of the calibre of Ricky Ponting, and he clearly isn't, we must make do with KP. He may not have been properly prepared for the role -.he hasn't been -- but I think we should all wish him the very best of luck and every success.
After all we are talking about the greatest sport in the world and the country that was once its undisputed leader. It can happen again.
PS Thanks, profpas, for persuading me that this blog had not gone completely to the dogs and that there are still people out there, still passionately interested in the great game and prepared to make excellent contributions to the debate. And that mine might not be a complete waste of time.
PS2 It seems that Ron Sandler, the banking executive I referred to earlier, was born in Bulawayo, now part of Zimbabwe! He,he! So maybe he is not a real Englishman.
For God´s sake let's forget about this stupid classification of people as English or non-English on the basis of where they were born. If a cricketer, wherever he was born, decides to ply his trade in our country, becomes a naturalised Englishman and commits himself to his new country, there should be nothing to prevent him being part of the team, even its captain. To go against globalisation, something quite inevitalbe, might reasonably be regarded as racism in this particular circumstance. Let's not give anyone the basis to make such a damning accusation.
PS 3: let's give the Saffers the hiding they deserve in the Oval test. We may not be fielding the best team we can put out but everyone in that team will be determined to make it something very special, in memory of Michael Vaughan, a very good batsman and very,very good captain.
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I forgot to mention while composing my recent contribution, just now keeping the moderators from enjoying their Horlicks before a deserved rest, that we really should get off Aggers' back.
Whatever we think about his blogs, he is after all just the messenger and we should not waste our efforts getting worked up about them but just say "Aggers, I think you have got it wrong "and not cast doubts on his maternity/paternity and integrity. I may be exaggerating but there have been some pretty nasty things said about him, quite unwarranted.
It is time for us all to come together in support of our test team for the match at the Oval. We should be able to win and recover some honour and satisfaction. Let's hope so.
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I had Monty don't as skipper as there would be little risk of his batting deteriorating!
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Same old story from the selectors, isn't it? The best player appointed as captain again....both Vaughan's and Flintoff's performances suffered for them being made captain...so why compromise one of our main weapons? They just never learn, do they? Strauss has done the job before and has shown himself able to handle it and lift his game, so why gamble? I've no faith whatsoever in the current England management and selectorial set-up.
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Law889 Could KP have done a graeme Smith - last test? He did in the last test in the Ashes series. I know he can mess up sometimes but I would rather he crashed 94 runs in his own inimitable style than prod about for half an hour than get himself out. Strauss is struggling big time so maybe Key could have been brought in as an opening bat. The line up looks too cosy at the moment and surely this last dead rubber was a chance to bring a couple of fresh faces in and let them show if they are up to the task.
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The largest single item missing from our players is consistency.
Once they can play regularly with consistency, and achieve a level of performance that is reliable, then we will start to go somewhere.
Having to rely on two or three players outperforming the rest of the team is not the way to go.
Kevin P has the opportunity to transfer some of his 'get up and go' to the rest of the team now.
Peter
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I think Pietersen could be just the tonic England need. He's essentially South African and therefore he will have a will to win, and will always be fired up. Vaughan was too placid and, in my opinion, was over-rated. He appeared to command respect from the players (in a stern teacher type of way) but didn't seem to show the sort of obvious, dare i say it, 'aggression', which the better cricketing countries show. Vaughan was a bit like Beckham, all teary at the press conference, a bit 'Henman fist shaking' on the getting fired-up front. I don't think you'll see Ponting or Smith all teary if they stepped down. It a man's game, afterall.
People say the captaincy is a tough job but nobody seems to hold the captain repsonsible if England don't win (1st test this series). Essentially he gives words of encouragement, nods at selection meetings, moves a few fielders, fiddles with his bowling attack and talks tosh to the ever eager press.
Pietersen was the ONLY choice, should be left to captain, and that's the end of the matter. Concentrate on the action, for a change, please! Because others players in the team seem to escape critisism even though they so rarely do the business (Anderson, Panesar, Strauss, Amborse....)
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A couple of comments.
Moores
Moores has said:
"Coaches and captains are always going to have different views because they look at the game from a different angle"
Strikes me as nonsense and rather intellectually arrid nonsense as well. An experienced coach and a thinking Captain should broadly have the same views. Fletcher and Vaughan worked well together and complemented each other. Will KP and Moores? Not so sure
Strauss
"...because there was no way of accommodating Andrew Strauss in the one day set-up."
Oh dear oh dear. When will the selectors realise that cricket is cricket and if you can play it you can play it! If Andy is a world class batsman (he is IMHO) then he is capable of being so in any form of the game. The idea that you pick a world class player for Tests (e.g. Strauss) but replace him with someone who is less than world class but “fit for purpose” in the shorter forms of the game (e.g Prior or Mascarenhas) is a shibboleth that should have had its day. One Captain. One squad.
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I personally think that Pietersen may well make a very good captain. He's fielded in the close positions and will have no doubt taken on board a lot of what Michael Vaughan (who was a very astute tactician with regard to field placings, etc) did and how he went about things.
We all know that he has a large ego and people have been saying that a certain amount of selfishness with the bat is something that should preclude him from the captaincy. I reckon that beidng captain is exactly the thing that will rein in his "selfishness". If, batting in the third innings, he decides he wants to get to 500 and declare, his ego will be such that he'll want to be out in the middle himself and get England to such a position.
He'll want to lead from the front and I think that his batting will get even better as a consequence in the same sort of way that Ricky Ponting's has since he became captain of the Aussies.....
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Don't agree with Censura #145. You wouldn't pick a sprinter to run in a marathon even though they are both runners. Horses for courses.
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After the world cup of 2003, english Selectors came back to the strategy of having more specialists, which did work. though Vaughan, Solanki could not prove them as better oneday cricketers, but it worked. Anderson, Harmison, Jones, Gough bowlers who can not bat, bowled and won matches by picking up wickets. And it was vaughan, who lead the way with his attacking captaincy.
Ultimately, it's the batsmen's batsmanship and bowlers's wicket taking ability which win matches for Australians and South Africans. As the new captain KP will have to capitalise on having more match winning batsmen and bowlers rather than depending on the batsmen who can bowl or the bowlers who can bat or the best batsman among the keepers.
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It's good to see that the best batsman of the team has become the captain. Hopefully, his batting form will remain as effective as it has been for England in last few years.But, the important thing is, whether he becomes a captain capitalising on the development of his players rather than immediate result. He needs to give enough time to his players and they have to be used them in proper positions. And, similarly, KP also needs time as a captain.
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#145 - Every successful team in the world has its One Day specialists and Test specialists, and the system works very well.
My concern with England is that we put too much faith in the limited overs specialists, and when they don't fire it makes us look very old fashioned and pedestrian. Those teams that do well (and do parachute in the specialists) have got a solid core of players who consistently perform in all areas of the game - that's what we're missing. Who's our Brett Lee? Our Sehwag? Our Murali?
I wish we had that secure foundation to build a team on, but we haven't. But then, you can't have it all ways - we complain if they stick with an underperforming side, and complain when they tinker - especially in limited overs stuff.
I've actually got faith in KP as a potentially very capable captain. He seems to thrive on whatever challenges are put in front of him, and has got an aggressive killer instinct about his cricket that I thing the modern game needs. I'd much - MUCH - rather MV had kept his form and was at the helm, but I'm certain KP is the next best thing.
Good luck, Kevin.
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Broad, Anderson, Flintoft, Harmison and Panesar. Let's hope this lot can take 20 wickets in the match. It's then up to the bats to score the runs. Watching Harmison will be especially interesting and I really hope things go well for the whole team. I'd add Rashid, Shah, Sidebottom, Jones and Foster and that would be my touring squad for the winter if the bats succeed. I'd add Key if I wanted a different batsmen.
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English cricket watchers and the commentators on this blog must be the most hope filled of people? Our hopes are dashed then we see a new dawn, a fresh hope and we're optimistic again.
We are always on the edge of our seats, uncertain about the next performance. Will KP look fantastic for 20 minutes but get carried away and blow his start? Can Freddie run in and blow the lid off things having already bowled 20 overs? Will more than 2 or 3 players put a performance together during the same match?
I like the hope it show's we care. We are critical because we care and we are forgiving because we care.
Hard decisions have been made over the last week or so now we should be hopeful and look forward to a new dawn.
Get behind KP and his lads, win, lose or draw it should be worth watching.
P.S. I don't usually pick a team and suggest how it should look for the next test but does anyone know what the pitch at the Oval is likely to behave like? I haven't noticed any enormous scores there this season and Ramps hasn't found his 100th ton as easy to get as the previous 30 or so.
On the face of it does anyone else look at the squad and struggle to see the strength in the batting?
And finally. If it is not going to be a raving Bunsen should we give Monty a rest and let Bopara, Collingwood and the new skipper fill in the extra overs?
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The appointment of Pieterson above everyone in The whole english game signifies 1 thing that all the numpties on here have overlooked!!!! be it Key,Strauss or whoever.From now on to be in the team you have to perform that is how it should be thus the only man in the english game at this moment in time assured of his place in the England team is KP!!!
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There is a well established principle in Management which is enshrined in The Peter Principle. This states that, in any organisation, a person is promoted to one level above their level of competance.
It is widely assumed that a good number 2 will make a good number 1. The most recent example of this fallacy is Steve McLaren.
Mike Brearley, acknowleged to be one of the best Captains England has had, was never the best batsman in the side, but as a Captain he was out of the top drawer along with Richie Benaud (with respect to a previous comment, Mike Atherton wasn't in their class).
There is an instance of a player making one Test appearance, and that as Captain, but that was over 100 years ago.
KP has no meaningful track record in captaincy and none at all in matches lasting more than one day. I agree that Strauss should be stand in Test captain with KP for ODI and 20/20 and that the Test and short course captaincies should remain split. For one man who is a natural captain to do all three is unreasonable, to ask KP to do is unfair to him.
Mike Atherton has suggested that it'll all end in tears. Sadly, I think he's right.
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I was pleased to read that Pietersen managed to call England "this wonderful country" so early in his captaincy.
There can now be absolutely no doubt that he is the right man for the job.
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No pressure on Harmy as it's a dead rubber so does a good showing prove that he CAN do it under pressure? No. Without showing disrespect to the opposition surely we could have made a few more changes and see if anyone steps up to the plate. Bopara.Shah, a more mature Solanki? Surely a few fresh faces would stir things up a bit or this all about keeping centrally contracted players happy?
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oh look monty gets in the side again i wonder if he will actually contribute in this series for england
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Firstly let me say that I am impressed with the squad for the next Test, Harmison deserved another chance and Broad did not deserve to be dropped - as an MV fan I never wanted him to go but now that he has firstly lets salute the man! Not only a damn good batsman but a top class captain! I am sure that he will be back once he has sorted out his game.
Next lets forget the hype - KP and Freddie are the only names certain to be included in any test side but Freddie is not captain material so more or less by default KP is your man - thats not my opinion thats just the choice we have
So lets leave it to him and the team to show us what they can do
I believe that the selection is as good as it gets and I do believe we can thump SA once and for all!
After the match we can analyse who has don what and how they can learn, grow or change so for now KP you have my vote!
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Fantastic. I can't wait to watch this on the Beeb tomorrow.
Oh. Wait...
It didn't meet the scheduling criteria?
I guess Bargain Hunt, Doctors, Step Up to the Plate, Jakers!, Time Warp Trio, Skunk Fu, Best of Friends, Blue Peter, Newsround, The Weakest Link all did then.
That's good to know.
You've failed us again, Beeb.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Obviously a difficult choice and no matter what decision was arrived it there would have been extensive coverage and debate of it.
In this day and age of increased pressure on sportsmaen and women I think it would have been wise to separate the captaincy of the one day side from the test side. Reading Michael Atherton in yesterdays times he favoured Stauss for the test side and KP for the one dayers. Robert Key then comes into the equation also for both as it goes. Key for me stands out as the Natural skipper amongst the three, he seems to thrive on it. I wonder if either Staruss or KP will. Key also could have been a natural 'replacement' for Vaughan at No 3. The batting line up for Thursday looks to lack runs and Key would strengthen that.
The fact is that we could talk round and round it. I would have either gone for Strauss for Skipper for tests and KP for ODI's, if the selectors were hellbent on a skipper for both ( and I can see no reason why they should be) then I'd go for Key. Having made their choice I would have brought Rob key back for the test matches to replace Vaghan and then KP has an experienced skipper and a real Cricket thinker he can ask advice of as he learns his trade.
Finally, I do not believe for one minute thta Paul Collingwood resigned for the reason he stated. It is the mark of a true gentleman and a man who puts his country before his own gain that he resigned to give the selectors a blank sheet of paper to work with. I tell you if our backs are against the wall in the ashes I know exactly who I want out in the middle and that's Collingwood.
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Can't believe it. I've actually read a comment on here which states 'There's no 'I' in team'. David Brent eat your heart out.
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Extraordinary!
English sports fans at their most fickle.
KP has not even captained a game yet and we have written him off.
The comments are simply ill conceived. I see one poster has compared Pietersens appointment to putting Wayne Rooney in charge of the English football team. I would love to see an expansion/explaination of this particular assessment.
Rooney? Good footballer, sometimes temperamental, often struggles in pressure matches.
Pietesen? World class batsman, peerless when it comes to innovation at the crease. He is an intelligent chap too, respected by his team mates and deeply driven to succeed. He consistently delivers big performances under pressure.
So can we think that comparison through again please?
For the sake of the team, if nothing else, why not wipe the slate clean and give Pietersen a chance? Furthermore, let us once and for all stop pining for Rob Key. He is not even good enough to make the squad as a player, so why make him captain. If that logic follows then we should bring back Vaughan. It is a new era, let us see what happens. Personally, as someone who has played cricket all my life, I believe the role of the captain is often overstated anyway. Great batsman, bowlers and fielders win matches - NOT captains. Captaincy is revered too much in great sides, and excessively ridiculed in poor sides. In other words, the captain is made to look as good or as bad as the team around him. not the other way round! Congratulations KP! A joy to watch, and he deserves his chance just as much as anyone else. Let's support him and hope for a decent victory at the Oval to kick start the side!
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At last some sense, do any of you who are calling for Rob Key know about cricket? He is a good county batsmen and an excellent captain for Kent. Thats it, based on his mediocre form he does not deserve to be in the England side! Give KP a chance!!! I for one believe his approach will be a breath of fresh air for the team, I think others will flourish around him. Strauss was too similar to Vaughn in his captaincy and was a good number 2! Wholley different to being the number 1! Personally I would have kept Vaughn and moved him down the order in a less pressured role. Ian Bell I hear has moved up the order to third, big mistake he has been tried and tested in that position and he failed, unfortunate for him because I believe he is a very good proffesional. England to win despite a thin batting line-up
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newhappy days # 147
The comparison with a track athletics is wrong I'm afraid.
Standing at the wicket facing a bowler or running in to bowl to a batsman is exactly the same situation whatever the form of the game. There is always 22 yards between you and your opponent! You can hack it, or you can't. Being part of hacking it is being able to adapt your play to the situation.
England v Sri Lanka 2002. England openers score 50 runs in five overs to win the match. Twenty20 ? Not at all - it was a Test match. Top players (Vaughan and Trescothick in this instance) can adapt their approach depending on the circumstances. Strauss is perfectly capable of playing any form of the game - given a chance. Type-casting him as a Test player only is rubbish. Harmy needs to make himself available for limited overs matches as well. If Ambrose is not as good as Prior then Prior should be keeper in ALL England matches. If Monty is England's best spinner then he should be in the ODI side as well, not somebody who is not preferred to him in Tests. Etc.
If I was KP I would insist that a squad of players be selected, given central contract from Giles Clarke’s money bag and made to work together as top players with none of them wearing a “Test player” or a “One Day player” or a “Twenty20 player” badge. They are all good cricketers (or they shouldn’t be there) and for every match a selection of eleven will be made from them depending on KP’s judgment as to what he needs for that particular match.
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The reason I strongly suspect that Pietersen will succeed? The man is actually a leader. He is an alpha male and appears not to be troubled with insecurities.
THIS IS KEY!! Natural leaders do just that. They lead. They command the respect of their players, as opposed to demanding it (this inevitably was the case under Nasser Hussain).
Someone who is insecure and doesn't exude confidence will NEVER make an effective leader because one requires decisiveness and faith in one's self and one's own decision (as well as the ability to take criticism for what it as - as opposed to taking it personally (read:INSECURE))
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A tongue in cheek thought: Would Pietersen's supposed "ego" have meant he would have batted again (giving himself the chance of easy runs and looking good) at Lord's rather than inviting SA back into the game as Vaughan foolishly did? That was the turning point of the series for me.
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