Pietersen fails to complete rescue operation
Paul Collingwood gave us all a shining example of what makes him one of the most popular members of the England dressing-room when, in what might have been his last test innings, he produced a superb, fighting hundred to keep England in the hunt.
Rather than hide in his shell as in the first innings, he batted purposefully and positively. Boundaries flowed, and his footwork started to return after England faced the real possibility of losing the match today.
Michael Vaughan produced a fluent failure when he drove a low catch to mid off for 17. He will not be dropped, of that I am certain, not least because there is no one to take over especially now that Kevin Pietersen must surely have ruled himself out of the reckoning today.
I'm not going to steal Alec Stewart's thunder, but will merely endorse his criticism of Pietersen's irresponsible stroke that brought about his downfall on 94 just when he and Collingwood were leading England out of trouble. Make no mistake about it, Pietersen was going for the glory of reaching his century with a six.
But, unlike Collingwood later in the day, he chose entirely the wrong ball to do it because it was his first sight of Paul Harris from round the wicket, and the length was also wrong.
What made his shot the more galling was that the South Africans saw it coming, and they set the field accordingly with the long on and long off deliberately placed 15 yards from the boundary edge.
All Harris had to do was let the ball go and Pietersen did the rest - down the pitch he came and, trying to loft him for six, holed out to AB de Villiers at mid on. The South Africans have always maintained that the way to get at Pietersen is to prey on his ego, and they did so again today.
Some will say that Collingwood might have fallen in the same way - but he didn't. Others will say that the earlier batsmen who failed to score runs should carry the can for England's predicament, and that Pietersen should be absolved of blame.
That is a valid argument, but if anyone really does hold that view, please watch Pietersen's furious reaction: he knew he had blown it. Would Jacques Kallis or Ricky Ponting have done the same thing? Of course not. When you get in as a batsman at this level, it is your job to stay in, and Geoff Boycott always maintains that to appreciate a true position in a Test match, you add two wickets to the score.
Had Pietersen done that, surely he would merely have picked off the runs, and continued the rescue work that he and Collingwood had so skilfully embarked upon. In fact, with Andrew Flintoff prodding a catch to short leg four balls later that is exactly how the situation developed with England slipping from 219-4 to 221-6, with a nervous Tim Ambrose walking anxiously to the middle.
A terrific fourth and probably final day awaits, with England needing to muster at least another 50 runs realistically to put pressure on South Africa who will be batting to win the series.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~34~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Well, that was an unbelievable innings from Colly! When Strauss got his 177 in Napier I thought was something, but this was even more impressive because there was far more pressure. Truly brilliant.
If we do score enough that we are able to bowl SA out, then Colly is man of the match for sure - and who would have thought yesterday?
Complain about this comment
i take my hat well and truly off to paul collingwood, to be honest he had been on the rough end of quite a lot of bad decisions this series and the one with NZ, and i feel he really deserved this century.
and aggers as one of the collingwood's biggest critics, i think that you should apologise to him. it just shows the value of having a bit of faith with your players.
though i still dont agree with the pattinson selection...
Complain about this comment
Superb stuff today, this is what for me differentiates test cricket from the twenty20... Enthralling viewing and twists and turn, terrific stuff...
One has to say that Colly answered his critics in the only way possible by scoring a terrific ton... We've got a real fighting chance tomorrow... If we can get upto 250 ahead, and maybe even 300... we've got a real opportunity to pull this test out of the bag... The first half hour tomorrow will be massive..
Come on england!
Complain about this comment
Pleased as I am for Paul Collingwood, the trouble with our batting is that we've got 4 or 5 players who only do it when they have arrived at the last chance saloon. Strauss, Bell, Collingwood, Vaughan are all guilty of this.
Just as the calls for changes reach a cacophanous crescendo they produce a hundred, but instead of going on from that in the manner of a Ricky Ponting or a Mike Hussey, they go back to failing again. The failures then keep coming until the next time the batsman looks like being dropped.
It's all so frustrating!
Complain about this comment
What is it with English batsman they get given chance after chance after chance. Then finally when its last chance saloon they pull a hundred out of nowhere. Vaughn, Bell, Strauss and Collingwood all done it in recent series. Then they give themselves another 10 tests.
I'd still drop him. South African bowlers were serving up some real village cricket buffet to get himself in. He's a nice chap, and good to have in the dressing room and all that rather useless stuff. But he's a limited batsmen who can bowl some dibbly dobblers and is a world class fielder (Not this test).
Complain about this comment
good old collingwood, i've stuck with him whilst all you lot called for him to be dropped and my faith was repaid!
all that's left to say is i told you so!
colly's a great batsmen and as they say form is temporary, class is permanent, good on ya!
well played KP too, but i see you become yet another english player to get slated by this so called expert. the fact is he scored important runs for us, and a mere six runs he didn't get shouldn't matter that much.
the england teams fine the way it is, just find a way to get broad in, i dunno, make collingwood the wicketkeeper??
Complain about this comment
Whilst it is frustrating that Pietersen got himself out as he did, the fact is that without his contribution England would have probably lost by now. No doubt his ego contributed to his downfall, but it also made him come in when England were in a dire situation and have the bravado to force us into a position of where we now have at least a fighting chance. I also think Colly benefitted from KP's positivity when batting with him.
Complain about this comment
Bit negative to have KP's mistake as your headline when it could have been about his good innings which helped turn the game around from a tenuous, Collingwood's superb fighting century, or even our efficient bowling this morning. I agree it was a rash shot from KP. But his whole innings was filled with risky shots and it got him to 94. You don't mention the numerous times when such shots got him runs (most notably the two 'switch hits').
The game is still in the balance. If England can get near the 400 mark and the pitch starts to turn, we might even become favourites.
Complain about this comment
AndyNCCC. You told us so? It's such an easy game, pick any England batsman thats not playing well. Tell the world he's the greatest. Within twenty innings he is bound to get a century some how,and when he does after all his 5,0,12 scores you can tell the world I told you so, aren't you a clever chap. One hundred does not make him a class act. Very average bat indeed.
Complain about this comment
I am pleased for Colly today. He played some lovely strokes and deserved some fortune at last after what has been a horrible summer for him. Nice to see the Saffer lads giving him the handshakes at the end - that was a nice touch. Not sure if they would've done the same thing if it was KP rather than Colly walking off at the end that's for sure!!!
I'm a bit disappointed about your negative headline about KP. Yes it was frustrating to see him go for the glory shot like he did and we can go on about he's not like Ponting or Kallis but without his 94 we would be in a far worse position. Better targets for criticism regarding poor shot selection would've been Cook, Vaughan and Bell who gave away their wickets far more cheaply.
Complain about this comment
Complete nonsense. A brilliant 94 which is more than most of the top 6 have made in the series and your headline is criticism ... !
Even worse in an act of supreme hypocrisy laud the way in which Collingwood did exactly the same thing yet choose to brush it of just because he was successful.
This sort of journalism puts me in mind of Cantona and fishing boats !
Shameful !
Complain about this comment
Well done Paul Collingwood. I would still have preferred Broad to take his place. I belive that England would be in a better position had he played instead of Collingwood. Last chance salon 100,s are not what England need.
Vaughan has to go know whatever the result.
As for Pieterson "this is the way I play" is ok for a new boy or someone batting at 7 not 4.
Looks like we are going to the same average team for the oval.
I do not know if I am happy or dissapointed by the success of Colingwood but Vaughan I feel has to go.
Complain about this comment
That was truly a Captain´s innings from Paul Collingwood. Terrific sportsmanship from the South Africans congratualating him as they left the field.England now have a fair chance to give their bowlers hopefully enough runs to dismiss South Africa again
Poor old Michael Vaughan is still hopelessly out of form, and there has never been a better time to drop him now that one-day Captain Collingwood has reminded everybody that he can still play as well as he did when he got the double century against Ricky Ponting´s best ever Aussie attack.
Complain about this comment
As all have said above brilliant response from Paul Collingwood. He can now cement his place by guiding England to a good lead. Equally Ambrose must support Collingwood for a substantial period in the morning.
I hope England are taking note of South Africa's behaviour there is not just an arrogance but a distain about this South African team just look at Nel when he dismissed Cook or Harris when he dismissed Pietersen. It seems pretty clear this nastiness is an attempt to disguise a lack of talent and when put under pressure this South African side will wilt. They are gutless, talentless playground bullies and there is only one way to deal with them and that is to concentrate on the basics ignore the hype and watch their true character come to the fore.
Complain about this comment
cheghedges....
1. why would you pick a bad batsmen to try and make yourself look good when he gets a score? thats just silly. collingwoods just a player i admire and base my own game on. in no way am i justifying his scores in the last games either, and he has proved himself in the past couple of years, i.e. the 200 in aus and some fine centuries as well.
2. if you have time on you hands go through my previous comments and you will see i also wanted collingwood to be dropped, but for the right reasons, so he could go away and regain form. as for the dry sarcasm, grow up.
Complain about this comment
I agree to get 94 in a situation where England are under real pressure was fantastic. Yes Colly scored more but he would never have been in that position if KP had not helped him early on in his innings, supporting and encouraging him.
I think Aggers is being a little harsh, yes it would have been nice to have KP still in and ready to go tomorrow, but without his runs we would not even have a sniff of a chance of getting something out of this match.
Let's face it if we lose, and we're still favourites for that by the way, it won't be because of KP's 94 or Collys 101+ no, but the failures of so called top order batsmen, the chief culprit being the captain.
If you're going to blame anyone for us losing this match it should be laid at their doors.
Aggers leave off KP, he's our best batsmen by miles we should support and praise him not knock him for scoring 94!!!
Complain about this comment
if collingwood, ambrose and the remainder of the tail get england up to a lead of 270 or more it will give their bowlers a decent chance because flintoff will be steaming in and if harris can get wickets panesar will be able to
Complain about this comment
Jonathan,
I think that you're missing the point about the two batsmen on 94. Both premeditated to come down the wicket and loft the spinner for six. Both selected the same shot to play. Therefore, their shot selection was either irresponsible or bold, depending on your point of view. The only difference, albeit the important one, was that Collingwood executed his shot perfectly and Pietersen didn't.
There is no such thing as risk free batting. Collingwood feasted on lots of short deliveries today. Did he need to try to hit them for four? No, but because he did the emphasis is placed on the poorness of the balls. Did Cook and Bell need to play their pull shots? No, but because they got out suddenly their "shot selection" is pilloried.
Anybody can do a Boycott and criticise the shot of a batsman which brings about his dismissal. I don't think that we should focus solely on Pietersen, but rather on the less talented members of the team. As with Panesar's fielding, at times there's almost an acceptance of mediocrity from players which is overlooked and a frenzy to castigate our most gifted players.
Despite his century there is still a case to drop Collingwood, not that the selectors will. For me, Collingwood played just as sketchily at times as he has all summer. Fortunately, he either played and missed or nicked/hit the ball just wide of fielders. Let's hope he carries on scoring runs tomorrow.
Complain about this comment
So you wanted him to go and get form? Did he get the form? He hasn't got any county runs all season.
I saw him in the twenty20 the other day. Yes different form of the game and all that. The bloke looked like he didn't know which end of the bat to hold.He could have been out at anytime, and he was still hopelessly out of nick in the first innings of this test.
Nice runs in the end but Ntini had been giving him some nice half track stuff to get him started. Throw enough..... some of it will stick and all that.
Complain about this comment
Well done to Collingwood, though I would now like to see him (and Bell, and Strauss, and Vaughan) go on and perform consistently well to justify his place and not assume that his selection is now guaranteed for another year or so. We need the upper order to perform all the time and not just when they are about to be dropped.
His and Pietersen's innings have slightly disguised what was another somewhat lacklustre overall effort from the top order, with Cook and Bell getting out to bad shots, Vaughan failing yet again and Strauss apparently going through another run of mediocre scoring.
As things stand, if England do go on to lose this game I can see a bowler being made the scapegoat yet again, if any of them underperform with the ball in the SA second innings.
Complain about this comment
Firstly as a collingwood fan and admirer from this great century he deserves the respect that sometimes is not shown his way, yes he hasnt scored many runs but it shows how good he is with this magnificent innings, but although his job is not done he has put england in a great postion that earlier looked impossible. well batted Collingwood
Secondly i dont see why KP is getting some much "stick" for him "getting" himself out. he played marvellously and he put england in a fantastic position and had it not been for him then england would have probably already lost the test and series. If he had pulled that shot off then they would have reacted differntly to what it has, but the fact he didnt, has sparked criticsm for undoublty the best batsmen to play for england for some time, even though he scored 94 which half the batsmen havent scored throughout the whole series combined never mind in one match.
Complain about this comment
errr... no he didnt get form because he hasn't gone yet. i meant at the end of this game anyway, if he hadnt got any runs in this second innings, to go away to durham and play some county championship games.
the fact is, you need a lot more than luck to get a 100 in test cricket.
Complain about this comment
Funny how the 'experts' at Channel five - and in particular Boycs completely failed to 'get' the 'hundred with a six' scenario either for KP or Colly. I think that Colly 6 to reach his hundred was one of the best moments in Cricket - showed a real sense of humour and a lot of bottle to show KP how it should be done! I'm buying tickets for tomorrow any advice please on best place to sit? Don't want snakes particularly but don't want 'dry zone' either. Thanks in advance. Mark
Complain about this comment
The criticism of KP is ridiculous. What is he supposed to do - get to 30 and then get out 'properly' defending his wicket? Crazy - his 94 has got us back in the game - yes its frustrating that he couldnt go on and make 150 plus but thats the way he plays - just as well he didnt get out playing his 'switch hit' otherwise he would have been murdered in the press!
He got out trying to hit Harris for 6 and chose the wrong ball - unfortunate but part of the game. Bell and Cook both played stupid shots and didnt receive the same criticism - why? If they had got anywhere near 94 we would be winning this game.
It has taken the big players Flintoff and KP to get us back in this game - no one else could have done. Well played Colly - balls of steel to hit Harris for 6 to go to 100!
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Aggers get a grip, What has KPdone to you to merit this pathetic diatribe.How England could do with more like him.how can you say he wont captain England after one shot? what about his 2 switch hit fours?did you enjoy them?
I was quite happy with the England fightback,at least they showed some character.
But how easy to focus on the negative for a easy attention grabbing headline, grrrrrrr
Complain about this comment
Unbelievable criticism of Pietersen.
He comes out to bat with defeat almost guaranteed, takes the game to the opposition, revives England's hopes in a brilliant partnership with Collingwood, and gets hammered by Jonathan Agnew et al.
Pietersen is by far our best batsman and by far is our most entertaining player.
His ego comes from a desire to want to be the best and to dominate the opposition. It gets him out sometimes. So what.
If Agnew had his way, no doubt we would have a team full of pretty pea hearted players like Ian Bell.
No thanks.
Complain about this comment
To chastise KP for turning the game around again with some controlled agression shows lack of understanding of an individual's mental approach to batting and KP's need to dominate. Being a journalist doesn't entitle you to abuse your position by writing garbage. Today may have been a day to celebrate a good day for England and two fantastic rearguard knocks and for once to give us all a break and leave your poison pen to one side
Complain about this comment
pleasesackagnew:
Shut up.
Complain about this comment
i agree with everyone dissapointed about aggers take on KP's performance, when on top of his game, there is no-one better to watch.
and when someone scores 94, don't complain!
Complain about this comment
Its good to pick up good spots in a match but lets be honest as a team England are playing rubbish.
We moan about kolpac players not giving young players a chance yet do not give young English players a chance even when things are dire with some players.
End central contracts and pick the best team for a series from the guys in form.
I feel its also time for a new captain Vaughan is just hanging in there
Complain about this comment
Its good to pick up good spots in a match but lets be honest as a team England are playing rubbish.
We moan about kolpac players not giving young players a chance yet do not give young English players a chance even when things are dire with some players.
End central contracts and pick the best team for a series from the guys in form.
I feel its also time for a new captain.
Complain about this comment
Only in this country could somebody be pilloried for scoring NINETY-FOUR runs in a test match!
KP played a blinder, until he got out on 94, as did Vaughan until he got out on 17.
Pietersen has helped set up the chance of an England win, as did Collingwood.
Both deserve great credit for their performances.
This sort of reporting gives us a justified reputation for being a bunch of whingeing poms.
Complain about this comment
Low Quality Batsman:
Thanks for your lucid contribution to the debate. Why bother with the 'Batsman' bit?
Complain about this comment
Its all very well and good for ian bell to come in with 250 on the board and play his strokes but he can't make hard runs to save his life. Colly is made of iron. That was the toughest grittiest century I have seen for a long time. Thats why he is there. A good test team needs grafters as well as thoroughbreds. Can you imagine what the aussies would do to Shah (cc average of 38 for gods sake) or Bopara or, lord help us, Robert Key when batting with their backs firmly against the wall?
Its as true for cricket as it is with any other sport...wholesale changes should only be made when abolutely necessary. I believe that this panic mentality is creeping into all facets of English sport. I was hoping "boo boys" would stay watching football, but directed by the increasingly ridiculous british sports media, one lost test and eveyone looses the plot. Against the second best team in the world England have performed, on the balance of three tests, about par. So lets not panic and bring in a bunch of cricketers we already know aren't good enough
Complain about this comment
What is it with these experts eh? And i hope your reading this Aggers although i doubt, your probably trying to criticise someone else who doesnt deserve it. Over the past couple of weeks ive heard nothing but criticism for Alastair Cook. Comments such as "He gets out in the 60s and 70s almost every time". In case you havent noticed 60 or 70 is a rather good average. If your going to criticise hime, criticise him for the way he has played today cos id rather he got out in the 60s or 70s every single innings than the way Vaughan, Bell, Ambrose or Strauss have played lately. But no on the day Cook actually deserved some criticism you turn on a man who scored 94 of our 297 runs today its ridiculous. KP played a sublime innings. Yes, it was a bad shot but so was Cook's, Bell's and Strauss' and i hear little about them. So give KP credit for a sublime innings and the same to Collingwood (I always thought he would be good enough for his place although i did think he would have to got back to County Cricket first). And tell Strauss to buck his ideas up, tell Cook to not play that shot unless he is 100% confident he can pull it off, Vaughan needs to be dropped as does Bell who doesnt contribute often enough (Bopara and Shah to replace). Drop Ambrose and bring in Mustard. Drop Anderson who is too inconsistent and take your pick out of Harmison, S.Jones and Broad. I'd be inclined to go with Harmison but as a Durham fan i may be a bit biased. There you go rant over :).
Complain about this comment
Agnew resign.
You do not understand cricket - you do but you are into the system!
Pietersen was trying to impose himself on a poor test bowler.
You consider that one shot is a potential Test Match Captain's resignation - rubbish.
Clearly you have no idea - or want to pose a dramatic story - you are a jornalist after all!
Your comments are posted natoinaly and are for today's story pages only.
You have no idea on thought process of a batman - you do surely but today's headline has overruled.
If Collinwood received a great ball and was out for 0 you would comment "the end of a grafter"
He gets a century and you comment "resurection".
You were objective and have lost it ... seriously.
Fight back Jon as you have the interlect!
To beat Aussies need inovation ... Vaughan and Moores could do ... but end of Pietersen does not push them to do it!!
Complain about this comment
i think it's easy nowadays to compare the england team to other england teams, such as the footie team, where players are chopped and changed a lot. the difference is, the england cricket team is more like a premier league football team where the same squad is with each other all year round. that's why i think chopping and changing at every chance is wrong, in my opinion it does more harm than good, i know a lot of you will disagree, but i hope you can see where i am coming from here.
Complain about this comment
Agnew is quite right! KP is a prodigious talent but lacks self-discipline as displayed by the SA openers in the first test. Until he learns to control his urge to grab the headlines, seasoned cricketers from the southern hemisphere are ALWAYS going to con him into the "out". As for the rest, the majority lack resolve and grit. What is needed is the same talent but grit of a Trueman, Boycott, Botham, and, yes, Flintoff etc. Personalities who REFUSE to be cowed and beaten. The qualities are abundant in teams from SA, OZ, NZ, and , in other sports, USA, Germany. For some reason we Brits seem to be unable to produce the talent with the resolve and determination. It is VERY frustrating!!
Complain about this comment
I would not say any batsman looked out of form. Just shots they couldn't control, thus judgement and keeping the ball down. Vaughan, Bell, KP all come to mind.
Freddy should be at 7 as his footwork/ technique is clumsy currently and disconnected.
Complain about this comment
well done KP I say, it's all very well comparing KP to Kallis and Ponting but neither of them ever have or ever will play for England. A more appropriate comparison in my view would be a certain D Gower who could similarly be both brilliant and foolhardy by turns and never really seemed to be truly settled in any innings. However like KP and unlike the rest of our top order DG never failed to take the challenge to the bowlers
Complain about this comment
RealBritcanuck
i see where you are coming from to a certain extent, but one thing KP is is disciplined, he isn't a player to come out and whack it one, that seems to be a sort of stereotype of him that's been built up. he generally plays a measured innings with the occasional clumsy or big-headed shot.
Complain about this comment
pleasesackagnew
I would like you to to try for ten minutes to do Jonathan Agnew's job with a tenth of the elegance, perception, good humour and skill that he does.
Complain about this comment
I see where you are coming from Andy very good. The people calling for those on form to always be in the England team don't see the distrubtion and lack of cohesion that would bring.
It's fine to drop one or two seriously out of form players and bring in one or two who are banging hard on the door. But not huge wholesale changes.
The problem is, it's so hard to tell who is in test match form from the county averages because the standard is so much lower. Look at Mark Ramprakash averaging a hundred last season and not getting a look in. Whilst Bopara averages 30's this season and is being strongly backed for a place.
Different stages of their careers and different players but just an illustration.
Complain about this comment
"Cometh the hour, cometh the man". If England win tomorrow (which is still very 50-50), Colly will be remembered as the man who saved England from the brink of defeat and his critics will stay off his back at least for another 6 months. Go Colly!
Complain about this comment
elegance, perception, good homour and skill?
pfff..
he's naff
Complain about this comment
superred07
I totaly agree with you.
KP may have given his wicket away but he scored a priceless 94. Unlike Bell and Cook who also looked good, and gave there wickets away without significant contributions.
Complain about this comment
aggers, do you ever have anything positive to say when an england player gets us out of the mire like kp did today.
okay so he didnt reach his ton, but he scored more than the rest of our top five put together.
you've complained about colly for two full days and now you cant do that, you have to put someone else in the firing line.
hows about 'well done kp and colly' for rescuing us and good luck for tomorrow.
maybe aggers should go back to county cricket for a season.....
Complain about this comment
Aggers,
Yet again, after a thrilling day of test cricket, you choose to focus on the negatives.
The BBC Sport homepage's own headline is currently, "Super Collingwood Revives England." Yours is, "Pietersen Fails to Complete Rescue Operation."
Frankly, the contrast speaks for itself - and I would venture that the former sums up the day's play much better than your own doom-and-gloom headline.
I fail to understand why you chose to devote so much of your close-of-play blog to an anti-Pietersen rant. He played a fantastic innings, ultimately falling short of a 100 but those 94 runs, and the manner in which they were scored, could yet prove the turning point in the match. It's all too easy to criticise Pietersen - and he deserves criticism for an ill-advised shot - but his dismissal was not the main story of the day. Equally, should Collingwood be ticked-off for making a very similar shot selection to get to his own 100?
What bothers me most about your grumblings is the lack of perspective. To read your piece, you would think that England had needed six to win the match with one wicket in hand.
You do at least give Collingwood due credit for his innings, although I suspect you still devote more words to talking about Pietersen, but the relish with which you enjoy lambasting England players continues to alarm me.
I'm not saying you should shy away from giving criticism where it's due. That would of course be poor journalism. But your obsession with hounding England players when they're down is deeply concerning and I feel it distinctly undermines your credibility as a journalist.
Pot
Complain about this comment
I don't feel that the time is right to sack Vaughan. Someone on here pointed out the other day that Vaughan has a reasonable tally of runs compared to other top 6 batsmen in the last six series or so; second only to KP.
My gut feeling is that class will win out at the end of the day. I don't see the logic in bringing in Robert Key as captain with a test average of 20 and totally unproven at this level as captain. Let the dust settle first and have faith.
Great to see Collingwood get runs. He and Ambrose batted well together in the first test at Hamilton-let's hope they can do the same here and rescue England.
Complain about this comment
First of all, well done to Collingwood. He showed more determination that the rest of Englands top order today. But i have to agree with a few other comments. What happens from here....does Collingwood keep his place only to get complacent and lose form again. Vaughan does this alot, gets a ton to save his place then goes the rest of the series with no runs. Collingwood must build from this.
I also disagree with the critizism of Pieterson. This is the way he plays and the way that got him to 94 in the first place. He still consistently scores more runs than all of our top-order batsmen and his average isnt bad either!! I dont get all the fuss....I would have been more dissapointed if he got out like Ian Bell on just 25 or whatever he got. He plays a high risk game and sometimes this happens!!
Complain about this comment
I'm with lowqualitybatsman (in more ways than one). Aggers has played a major part in keeping TMS at its outstanding best for many years. This form of fantastic, eccentric chat, occasionally interrupted by a bit of cricket, just wouldn't happen anywhere else in the world. Enjoy it don't knock it. It's a special part of Englishness and the English summer. GSD
Complain about this comment
Aggers has not gone made and started completely slated KP. If you read the article he says that KP did not finish the job he started. Which is correct. Oterwise is reaction wouldn't have been so frustrated. He KNEW he got himself out. For the second time in two tests. And aggers is also right to say that there is absolutely no way on gods earth that Ponting would have played that shot with the game balanced like this.
KP is still young. Few players have been as good as young. And he his learning. No sensible people are calling for him to be dropped. It just needs to be pointed to his attention that he cannot pla so recklessly all the time. Learning to control that aspect of his game will make him an even better player than he is now
Complain about this comment
Who was on TMS that said they thought it would be wonderful if Colly got a 100!
Collingwood's innings today was a superb response by a beleagured batsmen and a real show of grit, which is his greatest attribute.
It was a real pity that Pietersen was out when he was, but the shot wasn't as reckless as portrayed, and the rest of his innings was very responsible (He scored slower than Colly).
So praise to the England players. Bell and Cook got it wrong but the others all played responsibly, and Vaughan was unlucky to hole out with such a good short (though Amla was obviously there for that one).
The South Africans bowled very poorly and they have shown how their heads go down (and also how they don't like pressure), which England need to apply.
75-100 more runs would be amazing, but we shouldn't be disappointed with 50.
I do think the problem is within the England system that doesn't provide the confidence for the players to really perform
Complain about this comment
Unlike most here I'm going to say well done to Collingwood. I thought he needed to go back to county cricket to regain his form but he turned it around magnificently here. He will never be a great player, but he is a really gutsy one - along with Pietersen he is the one in the side who turns it on with the bat at the big moments.
Complain about this comment
Jonathan, I usually enjoy your blogs, but couldn't disagree with you more today.
Pietersen played a supreme innings today, showing a wonderful balance of caution and calculated aggression.
And without the confidence/arrogance shown by KP at the other end, Colly would have floundered, just as he did in the 1st innings.
Without this innings (and many many before), it's certain that England would have been well beaten in this Test. So, to focus your article so exclusively on one - admittedly rash - shot, whilst disregarding the massive impact KP had on the game, is in my opinion extremely poor journalism.
Complain about this comment
"Unlike most here I'm going to say well done to Collingwood"
eh?
It's brilliant, but does this really justify the decision to let him play is way back into form in the international arena?
More luck from the selectors than judgment. Not that I begrudge him a jot in the wake of that fighting innings mind you.
And it's Foster for Ambrose, not Mustard (prove me wrong please).
Complain about this comment
Reading some of the first 47 comments, Jonathan, you must despair at the outlook of some of the people you're reporting for.
You and I are from a different generation, when it wasn't "all about me", and showing off like Pietersen's would have been regarded as infantile, not clever.
As you quite rightly said, the fact that he scored 94 has no bearing at all on a crass, stupid decision, and if England go on to lose this match narrowly, you could quite reasonably say that the most avoidable reason for this defeat was Kevin Pietersen's allowing his ego to overrule his duty of responsibility to his team.
Collingwood's a different story. He's got only a fraction of Pietersen's talent, yet he squeezes it to the full, and if all England's young cricketers sought to emulate him, rather than Pietersen, we'd have in a few years a team that could punch up to a weight commensurate with a country of 50 million people.
Complain about this comment
So Aggers from your article you seem to be saying that you can play the agressive strokes, as long as you get away with it. How hypocritical is that!
During the tour of NZ pundits, including yourself were ripping on Pieterson because he was taking ages to get started, getting out too often in the 30's and 40's and taking forever to do it. "He needs to play his natural game" was what ALL the pundits were saying. Well today your saw his natural game and you didn't like it did you? Who cares that had he done what he did in the winter England would likely be bowling again already defending 150ish, why shoul Pieterson get more stick for getting 96 than the openers who are lucky to score that between them in 2 innings!
Yes Pietson has an ego the size of the field, yes he does crazy shots, and yes he will always get out playing a stoke he did not need to play, as yes he will play his way regardless of the situation. Doing this he will win England many games with the bat, but he will never loose us one becuase there will always be 5 other loosers with him!
All of this means that I don't think he should be captain, partly because he'd probably score as many as Vaughan if he did and partly because I don't think he has the tempremant, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a fantastic batsman.
England need batsmen who will bat without fear, they have one, we just need at least one more. All the constant griping (mostly from the pundits) is a combination of jealousy and the media's desire to tear people down. The real mark of how good a batsman he is, is that other teams are scared of him, and because of that I hope he never changes.
Complain about this comment
Humble Pie for tea tonight after wednesdays Collingwood comments.
Hopefully I'll be enjoying 2nd helpings tomorrow.
We'll done mate.
Complain about this comment
I'm with the above. It's for 1 - 3 to grind down the bowlers so that 4- 6 stroke players can smash wham bang thank you mam.
This ridiculous chat that 4 - 6 should be expected to take on the grinding role of 1 - 3 if all of 1 -3 have failed is just pish, especially when after a complete collapse of 1 - 3, 4and 6 have put on 200 runs.
Alex Stewart go and have a cold bath, a few lagers and get a grip of reality.
94 and you are being panned...er save it for 1 - 3
Bollix
CLaG
Complain about this comment
Lets not be too hasty south africa get the new ball straight away tomorrow the forecast is rain if it doesnt rain then it will definately be cloudy so it could be all over in the first half hour-saying that if england can creep up to 270-300 its game on and over to the bowlers lets just hope the guys can bring it home-i think its going to the wire day 5
Complain about this comment
lowqualitybatsman:
I see now why you just said 'shut up' first time round. Quite right to lead with your best shot.
grumpyspindoctor:
JA is a sad pastiche of the 'special part of englishness' that used to be TMS. He manages to combine the grumpy broadcasting ineptitude of Bill Frindall with the sharp insight of Henry Blofeld.
If you want to listen to a viable alternative, compare Vic Marks.
Agnew, resign, prat.
Complain about this comment
Can't believe that KP is coming in for so much stick. I know that he got out going for the glory shot, but that is the way he plays. He gets the crowd excited and is one of the reasons why the crowds at test matches in England are so big.
Everyone loves the way he plays and you've got to accept that he will get out sometimes playing a wreckless shot.
Still not convinced about Colly, MV was under intense pressure coming into the first test against New Zealand when he scored 104 which saved him. His average is about ten in the five tests since then.
Complain about this comment
yes, the wrong shot at the time of play; but, once again, the guy showed just what a talent and how important to england he is. as somebody else has said, would we rather he hung around for two hours for 15? i think not. and why should one wrong shot be the end of his captaincy ambitions? vaughan, the incumbent, has been woefully short of runs and, once in, got out to to an equally ill-judged shot...
possibly he misjudged his and the team's position, but if he makes 94 every test, and ruffles a few opposition feathers in the process, i'd be happy. the only reason he gets slated for this kind of thing is due to the ineptness of the rest of the top six for most of the time and thus the enormity of the responsibility resting on his shoulders.
the problem is with moores...
Complain about this comment
omg aggers ur an awful journalist, just because pietersen played 1 poor shot, hes at fault if england lose and he cant be captain anymore because of it?, use your brain, just because you were a flop for england.
Complain about this comment
If England lose this test and go 2-0 down in the series, then they might as well go 3-0 down at the Oval whilst trying out other players. I thought that Collingwood should have been sent back to Durham to find his form; maybe I was wrong. What a gutsy performance today.
Pietersen's ego should be given a rest at the Oval to serve as a reminder that this is a team game. His dismissal was shocking. South Africa were running out of ideas when he and Colingwood were batting. Flintoff was caught cold; dealing with slow bowling at the beginning of his innings is one of his weaknesses. Hats off to Collingwood and Ambrose for still keeping England in the series, though I think we need a lead of 300 and the new ball is due first thing.
I think Harris is underestimated by many.
Complain about this comment
Wow. I like your commentary Aggers - have done for years - never posted here in my life - but I think you really have misjudged this one big time.
It’s great to see so many cricket fans have come on here and criticised you for your negative, old fashioned and clearly-influence-by-an-Alex-Stewart-rant article attacking KP.
Aggers read the responses, people just aren’t buying it.
Complain about this comment
pleasesackagnew
you have an 'off' button presumably? Wish I could find one for you
Complain about this comment
Speedofthepuma, i agree that Foster is indeed a better (wk) however he is in my eyes a poor batsman whereas Mustard is both good with gloves and bat. ALthough i wouldnt complain if Foster or Prior came in for Ambrose, i think it is between those 3. I just think Mustard is the best of the three.
Dave
Complain about this comment
How typical on the media to jump on the negative as opposed to laying praise at the feet of the batsmen who has constantly been in and around the top 10 Test batsmen table since the start of his career. Yes he has an ego, but what the hell does that matter when you have a Test average of 50+?
Yes he got himself out when perhaps he could have selected a wiser stroke, but let's not forget he dug England right out of trouble with his innings today - without which England would have been in real danger of another humiliating defeat.
As it stands now, however, we are in with a shout and should Ambrose and Collingwood occupy the crease and crank up the pressure with more runs tomorrow, then we put ourselves firmly in the driving seat.
Pietersen's innings could well have been the turning point in this match. To read the article you would think KP threw away his wicket, when England had the slenderest of leads, and with few wickets left in tact.
Complain about this comment
grumpyspindoctor:
You are good! Wasted on here
Complain about this comment
I love it praise the guy that makes a score every 18months and lay into the guy that does it two or three times every series and plays one rash shot. It's all about making the expectations too high. Do what the rest of the top six do KP and do nothing for a year then unleash for a game and they will love you for it. Bizarre, how very English.
Excellencefirst you maybe from another generation. An old generation where u ground along at 2runs an over, dull, dull,boring,boring. The worlds moved on and so should you.
The new generation is young, athletic, exciting,inventive, got the lot. Now come join us in the 21st Century!
Complain about this comment
Wrong place for tis discussion I guess, but Foster is definitely world class with the gloves, I think if you play a 'keeper at 8 why on earth don't you pick the best 'keeper?
Complain about this comment
I dont know why youre saying sack Aggers.
I agree with him.
Pieterson had great chance to be there at the end of the day and blew it. The shot he played should not have been played. 1st ball around the wicket and he sloggs.
England needed him to do his best to stay there not just to the end of the day but to see off the new ball tommorow.
Its not that he got out but it was a thoughtless shot. The trouble is everyone new it was comming as soon as he started to reverse sweep.
Play as a team do what the team needs.
I feel that we do not have a team just a bunch of guys who only look at there own standing.
If you want to practise 20Twenty fine but not at a crucial part of a test match.
Complain about this comment
pleasesackagnew
almost. are you going tomorrow? If so I'll buy you a pint
Complain about this comment
grumpyspindoctor
YES! YES! YES!
Then you can regale me with your tales of Victorian parsons and district nurses and creaky bicycles and merrie england etc etc?
I WILL NOT LEAVE THE BAR
Complain about this comment
Do what the team needs undersea level? I don't think KP is the only one gulity of that. Vaughn, Bell, Collingwood, Strauss all do the business when their necks on the line not necessarily when the teams need them.
I wanna b an top order england bat, I get out for under 20 and get done by a 'Jaffa' a 'Miracle' ball! Nobody could have played it. Get no criticism, then the guy who is touching distance from a century will take the flak. Madness!
Complain about this comment
and colly proves the doubters wrong again.
for what it is worth, this is why i would take colly over bell every single day of the week; when the pressure was really on, who delivered when it mattered? yet again it wasnt ian bell.
the selection for this test match was spot on in my opinion apart from the wicket keeper - if your keeper is going to bat 8 then you pick read or foster. there is absolutely no excuse for that.
six batters and four bowlers the way to go definately, but to do this we need to have a squad of 5/6 seamers who rotate, and be careful of overbowling flintoff.
well done paul collingwood. but we need another 70 runs or so at least tomorrow to give us a chance
Complain about this comment
a glass of meade is yours
Complain about this comment
Can I remind all we are talking about a team game and leaving aside the poor shots to get out by a number of batsman, for the first time in my life I did not applaud an England batsman back into the pavilion at Edgaston today. The self centred and selfish atitude of Kevin Pieterson was shown in its worst light today and for that reason he should never captain England and will probably be reason why we may loose the game (always the optimist) The opportunity for KP with Collingwood's assistance to bury the South Africans was plain to see for everyone in the ground today, especially as the pitch went flat, the SA bowlers were out on their feet and it just goes to show KP does not have the nous to appreciate how much more he could have achieved.
Complain about this comment
perhaps 'jug' would have been better
Complain about this comment
On the subject of Pietersen's dismissal, I'm with Agnew. I was talking to a few guys in the lab/office at about the same time Pietersen was dismissed. I had thought that Flintoff would either come out and blaze a hundred or get out for not many and then our scoreline would look less pretty. As it turned out, the latter happened and for a little while, my head was in my hands (not for the first time this summer) and wished for Boycott's mother with a stick of rhubarb to turn out for England.
Make no mistake about it - a 150 for Pietersen was there for the taking. And from an England batting point of view, we really needed Pietersen and Collingwood to push on as far as possible and grind the SA's down. Just before Pietersen fell, Smith didn't know what to do with the field. The bowling wasn't terribly good, but at one stage the batting was imperious but safe. Runs were flowing freely - I think I recall a period of 10 overs when 60+ runs were scored - England were on the ascendancy and South Africa were reeling under the assult. Then Pietersen gifts his wicket in what is possibly the most selfish way possible.
So, he may play aggressively, he may light up the ground with strokes of such bravado and audacity that they defy belief, but lets not allow his dazzling talent to blind us. First and foremost cricket is a team game. Pietersen didn't see England close in on the finishing line and for a while it looked like our chance had gone. It was only for a very gutsy and determined effort from Ambrose that we were still only 6 down at the end.
Someone (an Australian) e-mailed into the the live text commentator to say that Pietersen is a match winner and we all forget that. Another said that Pietersen averages 50 in tests and so can't be that bad. But in all honesty, if Pietersen is to be considered a true great of the game, he needs to win matches for England more often than not. Today, he has not done that - not even close. To have won the match for England he needed to get at least another 50 runs and really grind the South African's noses in it.
So there we go. I accept Pietersen's innings was great, but let us not get too carried away. His arrogance is galling and he didn't even do half the job he is *expected* to do as England's best batsmen. Instead the unenviable task of helping Collingwood get England up to a competative total falls onto the shoulders of Ambrose. Perhaps Pietersen should have considered that before he allowed his ego to get the better of him (again)....
Complain about this comment
Pietersen's only rival in world cricket right now for audacious strokeplay is Virender Sehwag. It's ironic that both are in the press for different reasons tonight. By all accounts, Sehwag played an absolute screamer of an innings against Sri Lanka, pretty much saving his team onehandedly from a paltry total. Today we had Pietersen steadying the ship after some poor strokes elsewhere. The genius that makes KP and Sehwag the players they are is also accompanied by the moments of rash strokeplay that can infuriate (Dhoni has a similar thing going on but isn't up to the standard of these two). If KP or Sehwag tried to reign in the rash shots, they'd lose the spark of individual brilliance. The late great Colin McRae was much in the same vein. Tempering his speed might have won him more rallies and titles but it would have been at the expense of the thrill and excitement of driving on the edge that he lived for.
KP is never going to be a Ponting or Waugh-type batsman, someone you'd want batting for your life. He is very special, a type of player who is a once in a lifetime player. Don't hound him for getting out. Hound him for executing the shot poorly.
Collingwood was superb. he showed the sort of mental toughness that I wish all members of the England squad possessed. Flintoff with the ball and Collingwood and KP with the bat have shown that there is a backbone in that dressing room. Now it's up to everyone to back them up and do their part.
Complain about this comment
Why not play a keeper at 6 who can bat there.
How many number 11 wicketkeepers are there in the world?
Complain about this comment
speedofthepuma, if Mustard was selected i would hope he would be batted at 6 with Bopara at 3 and Shah 7. I would demote Flintoff to 8 or even 9 if you brought back Broad (out of Broad, Harmison and S.Jones) in place of Anderson. Flintoff is best served as a bowler who can hit a ball really hard. Mustard is brilliant with the gloves ad i believe in TM Cricket he coudl have an average of mid-40s. If you brought Foster in, whilst he is a slightly better keeper you would be lucky if he averaged 30. The one thing England have lacked throughout this series is runs, so we need a keeper who can bat. The team has to be:
1Strauss
2Cook
3Bopara
4Pietersen
5Collingwood (C)
6Mustard (Wk)
7Shah
8Flintoff
9Sidebottom
10Harmison
11S.Jones
Yes, i know it is different from last night but i wasnt well and was drunk last night so.
Dave.
Complain about this comment
Aggers.
Nonsense.
For once complete drivel!
Complain about this comment
Lateralis:
"lets not allow his dazzling talent to blind us"
Quite! More Bell please! My sunglasses are quite shot through!
Complain about this comment
Aggers, mostly your blogs make some kind of sense but slating KP is just plain short-sighted and so typically English. You only sing when you're winning, you're happy to glorify KP when his shots come off but cast him as the villain when they don't and as for vindicating Collingwood so easily, well that just proves the point. The fact is KP is the only batsman England have who can take the game away from SA or AUS, like Ponting and Kallis can do for them.
You have to take risks to produce special innings, so you've got to accept that sometimes it is not going to come off. And I totally agree with the sentiment from most that Collingwood probably wouldn't have been able to play as well as he has without Pietersen having been the main focus of SA. It was a potrentially series turning innings and all that you can say is negative.
Again typical English mentality.
Complain about this comment
and Collingwood proves the doubters wrong again? Again? When did he last do it? 2006 well welcome back to the party! Everyone makes such a big deal of Bell under pressure because it came into vogue a couple of weeks ago.
Clarke for Australia has never got a century without someone else getting one. Sounds like good company to me. Bell bats at five, England have a long tail so it's hard to be the only guying getting a century that low down.
He got his 199 coming in when England were under pressure. Collingwood was the only one to get a century this innings but KP was only one blow away from his.
Complain about this comment
Typical, let's knock a bloke for scoring 94! If he'd middled that last shot, or even nearly middled it, you'd all be praising him. For goodness sake give KP a break, he's our best batsman by a country mile. Well done to Colly under extreme pressure. If KP hadn't done the groundwork I truly believe the series would be out of sight by now.
Complain about this comment
Sorry, slip of the tongue there in my last message. I meant to say that I accept Pietersen's innings as greatly entertaining. And a useful one at an important time. Nothing more.
Complain about this comment
I'm not really sure why some on here are critiscising Agnew when he is merely providing some inciteful feedforward. After all, the situation above all else, demanded occupation of the crease:if Collingwood or Ambrose depart early tomorrow, how will KP's rash shot look then?
Rather than critiscising the way he plays, Agnew was questioning the timing of the shot and the delivery in question given the context of the game. This is the nuts and bolts of test cricket that fascinates us all.
Bysides, was that Agnew's headline or the editor's?
Complain about this comment
So many are saying cricket is a team game. Yes to an extent. But when you're out there batting, it's you versus opposition quick bowlers, fielders, spinners and the opposition captain. At times it is self-preservation. I feel Pietersen did a great deal to encourage Collingwood to open his shoulders. If KP had gone into his shell, he'd have dumped more pressure on Collie to score. Instead, they worked well together.
I wonder if those calling for KP's head remember David Gower giving away his wicket in a far cheaper way down under a few years ago at Adelaide. That dismissal contributed to Gower's career being over not that long afterwards to the dismay of many. Would they want Pietersen to go the same way?
Complain about this comment
Michael Vaughan has now scored a whopping 40 runs this series at less than 7.
Stuart Broad in only 2 matches has scored 4 times as many runs.
KP and Bell are the only England Players to score more than 300 so far this series and people are suggesting dropping KP for the last test.
ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS????????????????
Drop your number 1 run scorer because he played a bad shot -
We've already dropped the player with the best average because he's only taken 3 wickets. Nobody apart from Panesar and Anderson had taken more wickets.
Vaughan has to go - but the selectors are too spineless to do that.
Aggers - love your column and always respect your opinion - however MV having a go at you on Tuesday seems to have got to you. It should have been him and only him that got your negative comments today.
Complain about this comment
To sackjohnagnew
"Quite! More Bell please! My sunglasses are quite shot through!"
Actually, even as a big supporter of Bell I've been distinctly unimpressed by him in Tests for quite a while.
What we perhaps do need though is some of Collingwood's grit. Pietersen may not have a hundred tonight, but Collingwood does and he's still not out. Just think how many more runs Pietersen could have right now if he was still not out.
Complain about this comment
Dave, even I think that's radical, so the selectors will never go for it.
Harminson....
I wish I thought he wouldn't bottle it. Jimmy A might feel a bit miffed given his performance this summer. No spinner? Not sure. Shah at 7? Broad has a better average and can bowl a few.
Cook
Straus
Bopara
Pietersen
Collingwood (C)
Shah
Freddy
Foster (wk)
Jimmy A
S.Jones
Monty
Complain about this comment
at #90 actually i have been saying it ever since the ashes in 2005. its got nothing to do with this single centurion business, although it is certainly an interesting statistic.
pietersen was majestic today, but his genius infuriates.
to compare bells knock with collingwoods is not valid in my opinion as there is a big difference between batting on a flat first innnings wicket and batting from a desperate second innings position trying to save a game .
for bell's innings, he knew that if he was out his place in the side was severely under threat, and delivered.
for collingwood, he knew that if he got out the game was over in all likelihood.
and that is the difference between collingwood and some other members of the england side: he is a team man first and he has got a hell of a backbone.
Complain about this comment
Just come back from lunch to see the wonderful, quite unexpected news!
I quite agree with the criticism of Pietersen, angrily expressed on TMS by Alec Stewart. Yes he is the best batsman in England and part of the world outside and that is exactly why he should have been more responsible. How was he to know that Collingwood would continue to do such a great job once it became his sole responsibility to put England in with a fighting chance? Once Pietersen and Flintoff had gone, England were looking defeat in the face after a partnership which offered so much hope, only to be thrown away by the selfish desire of our hero to reach his century with a six.
One could say the same of Collingwood maybe, but he brought it off. I am not Collingwood's greatest fan and did not think he should have been selected again but chapeau!. He was under just as much pressure as KP if not more. Sincere congratulations to ginger, who is playing the innings of his life. This should guarantee him a season ticket for the rest of the year and maybe a few more games, especially if he sees us through to lunchtime tomorrow. To me his innings has been much more important than KP's. Collingwood was fighting not only for his test cricketing future, which seemed to be at an end, but foir his country and he has done us proud.
I would just not like to think that the incompetent bunch of people that we call selectors should take any credit for what he has done. It was a real gamble and we should not be paying them for playing in the casino.
Congratulations, Collingwood: keep it up!
Complain about this comment
KP is a great player, but yet again he holed out when England looked in control. England would probably be in a great position had he played with a bit more sense when approaching the hundred. The worst thing is that he threw it away, rather than getting a great ball from the South Africans. Well done to Collingwood. Let's hope he can stay there and England get another 70-80 runs.
Complain about this comment
Pietersen typifes everything that is wrong with the England batting at the moment (one or two excepted) - lack of discipline, specially self-discipline. Yes - he played a brilliant innings and set out to 'rescue' England - but in HIS way - that is, to the glory of Kevin Pietersen! That is all he thinks of. He is a completely irresponsible and immature player who happens to have a great natural talent, and he plays for himself instead of for the team. The difference between his attempt at 6 and Collingwood's is that Collingwood waited for the right ball, whereas Pietersen didn't because he was too impatient. It doesn't matter he had scored 94 runs - the essential thing was for him to STAY there. By getting himself out yet again with an irresponsible stroke he opened the door for another humiliating England defeat. he is selfish and egotistical beyond belief and I believe he should be dropped for the next Test - regardless of the fact of his great talent - he needs to learn a lesson, that there is a greater cause than the glory of Kevin Pietersen, and that is victory for England, above all else. If not, he will basically be holding the England team, captain, selectors and supporters to ransom indefnitiely to assuage his bloated ego. That should not be tolerated.
Complain about this comment
Its amazing to see comments supporting KP.This is the mindset that stops England reaching the top and STAYING there.In the last two innings KP has played for himself and not the team. No matter how good he is (and I think he's world class), he would not play for the Aussis with that attitude.Just like Vaughan before him Collingwood's century has obliterated his previous form from people's minds.We need wholesale changes (if only temporary) to get these players out of their comfort zone and start playing with the fire showed by Flintoff yesterday, or we might as well send the Ashes to Australia and save the expense of them travelling here
Jim Wilson
Complain about this comment
Sorry Speed I meant Panesar at #11. I was just debatng with myself over whether to go with Harmy or Jonesy and put them both in by accident. And Shah adds stability to the bottom of the innings plus if we need to score runs quickly and are losing wickets hes our man you saw what he did for Middlesex in the T20 Final so no1 can deny what he doesnt turn up on the big occasions
Strauss
Cook
Bopara
Pietersen
Collingwood (C)
Mustard (Wk)
Shah
Flintoff
Sidebottom
Harmison
Panesar
Complain about this comment
Unbelievable. Typical of the miserable negativity we have come to expect from you. A fantastic see saw exciting day of test cricket, wonderful innings from Pieterson and Collingwood and you produce a column of bile at the way one of our batsmen was dismissed.
This reads like you trying to make a name for your oh so brave hard hitting journalism rather than a balanced view of what happened.
Complain about this comment
Dave, both our sides are more balanced than this test's selection.
Complain about this comment
Pietersen made one mistake but he had done the hard work. Colly played almost the same shot and succeeded but only KP gets vilified.
KP led us out of a hole and yes, he could have gone on but what about the other batsmen? KP always gets slated for a silly shot when he's well set but the rest are struggling to even get set and yet they don't get a mention.
Well done to Collingwood though, a good innings.
Complain about this comment
i was at edgbaston today, what a fantastic day!
well done to colly, we were all so pleased to see him suceed, and as for kp, yes it was stupid, but then again im not sure how much we should be blaming him, at leats he made a significent score before perishing to dreadful shots, cook, bell, and vaughan all played absolutely disgraceful shots, not even worthy of fat middle aged men on a village green.
and i would also like to mention ambrose, he really steadied the ship and accompanied collingwood to prevent yet another collapse. the feeling in the ground when he came in was one of 'here we go again' but he, just as much as collingwood turned this around.
hats off to ambrose, from your harshest critic.
Complain about this comment
Yes maybe they should make us selectors :).
Complain about this comment
"What made his shot the more galling was that the South Africans saw it coming, and they set the field accordingly with the long on and long off deliberately placed 15 yards from the boundary edge."
"The South Africans have always maintained that the way to get at Pietersen is to prey on his ego, and they did so again today."
---
Haha. Priceless tactic! All you have to do to get Pietersen out is let him get 94 runs then catch him trying to hit a 6!
Genius! Those clever Saffers.
Complain about this comment
"Excellencefirst you maybe from another generation. An old generation where u ground along at 2runs an over, dull, dull,boring,boring. The worlds moved on and so should you.
The new generation is young, athletic, exciting,inventive, got the lot. Now come join us in the 21st Century!"
So you're quite happy to go on losing Test matches pathetically as long as it's done in a 'young, exciting, inventive' way, then? Grow up! Like Pietersen needs to do.
Complain about this comment
I really think there are some late night revellers on here trying to get my goat. Drop Piertersen? Teach him the team is bigger than him?
This is the guy who has the most for England in the series, he is the one English batsman who would get in a world XI. He plays big shots, risky shots, his switch shot twice for 4 and nobody says a thing, then he goes for a big six for his century and suddenly ooh he's a naughty boy he shouldn'b be playing shots like that!
The one saving grace of the whole day is that KP doesnt read these boards, otherwise the guy might just walk away from it all. Legend, total legend. Enjoy him coz u'll miss him when he's gone.
Complain about this comment
KP may have scored 94 but his innings wasn't complete. He does it time and time again gets himself in and looking comfortable then plays a stupid shot.
I know others had played poor shots but at that particular moment it was a crucial wicket and had it not been for colly's super innings and ambrose finally showing he can actually bat a bit then we may have been bowled out today and be staring at a series lost.
oh ye COME ON ENGLAND !!
Complain about this comment
Aggers, maybe you should retire now?
I can't see the logic in blaming KP for his wicket when all he was doing was playing his natural game.
I don't see you blaming Strauss for playing his natural game, prodding at one outside off and edging it...
KP gave us 94 valuable runs that could ultimately keep us in this series.
Only Collingwood has scored more runs than him in this test, and he is our most consitent performer, so talks of dropping him, Mr Stewart, are ludicrous.
He may not be captain material, but some of the best players aren't captain material, it shouldn't determine a teams selection whether there is a true captain in the team, and so Vaughan should be dropped no matter what, an average of 10 simply is not enough...
Maybe give Collingwood a chance at captain? He has definately earnt his place in the team today, even if he is only performing when he has a chance of being dropped, he is still getting runs, unlike Vaughan.
Complain about this comment
Why should KP change his game? He got us out of trouble and into a winning position. If your blaming anyone then blame the 4 out of the top 6 that scored nothing again. If KP's shot had gone for 6 then you would have been praising him at least he was looking for scoring opportunities to put SA under even more pressure. I cant see anyone else in the team who would have the bottle to 'switch hit' a spin bowler in a test match can you!? Dont blame KP but get behing Super Paul and Tim in the morning. Come on boys!
Complain about this comment
KP is entitled to bat how he bloody likes as is every batsman. It's a good thing to be egotistical in sport especially when you're playing well, it has a dominating effect over the opposition. Whilst aggers and many others suggest KP bats for himself, that is rubbish. He bats for England and he loves it.
Complain about this comment
sorry...
there seems to be alot of people of the opinion bopara should be filling the number 3 spot.
he is no where near the right person to take that position plus there is a few people ahead of him still. if he was going to play for england, which i am in favour of in the future, he needs to start at 6 or 7. vaughan is a very good player but needs to pull his finger out. and this time keep it out. keep him in for now, if he doesn't do it, give the captaincy to collingwood.
Complain about this comment
another "interesting" stat to illustrate how collingwood delivers when it matters:
against india and australia (the two strongest test nations), collingwood averages about 50, including two massive hundreds in foreign conditions.
as a fair comparison, bell has played almost exactly the same test matches as collingwood against these nations, and he averages about 30.
bell has also scored two massive hundreds; against the saffers, and er, bangladesh...
Complain about this comment
Aggers - This is a day where your headline should've celebrated what was a truly top-class innings of fight and skill from Colly - under the spotlight of extraordinary pressure.
If he failed again in this innings, England would've taken a massive step toward defeat, and in the process lose the series outright. The press would have crucified the team, and Colly's Test career quite possibly over.
KP was livid with himself about his dismissal, and he will no doubt be doing everything he can to use the experience to make himself an even better player.
Yet again, Pieterson has made a major contribution to the England cause, and we can't expect him to be a flawless hero. Cook and Bell both fell to rash shots - and they both went cheaply. Surely that is more deserving of criticism, than to attack a person who scored 94 precious runs.
Pietersen has shouldered the burden of the England batting line up for far too long, and yet again he was put in the position of HAVING to make a big score in order to bale out the inadequacies of the top order. We expect too much from him, and he doesn't get anywhere near enough gratitude from certain sections of the media.
KP is also a great team man, and he was constantly geeing Collingwood up and offering verbal support when he was struggling early on.
Colly's effort was absolutely superb. I was one of the many who seriously questionned his selection, and am delighted to have been proved wrong.
Aggers, don't turn into a cynical so and so, old fruit. This was a day to accentuate the positives for England - these were provided (yet again) by Pietersen, and most of all, Paul Collingwood, who truly deserves the headlines.
Anyway, we should be in for a really exciting climax now, so come on Jonathan - let's fly the flag!
Complain about this comment
Why is someone named ExcellenceFirst such a lucid advocate of mediocrity? Perhaps you could say that, if England lose the match narrowly, it's thanks to Pietersen that they weren't thrashed. But somehow I don't think you will.
Frankly, I'm not convinced that any England cricketer active in the last 15 years should be criticising Pietersen for his shot selection - not while his Test average is 50. It's a little like Tim Henman popping up to complain that Nadal doesn't serve-volley enough.
Complain about this comment
Yes, Collingwood batted well.
But to be honest if you gave me a long enough run in the side, I'd probably score a hundred eventually.
Like Vaughan, Collingwood shouldn't be in the side on the basis of a hundred every 15 innings or so.
I'd much rather someone score 40 every innings, like Bell, than score a hundred to keep themselves in the team for the next 10 Tests.
We all know Collingwood is a gutsy performer who is good with his back against the wall, but the reason his back is agsinst the wall is because he has been rubbish for the last 12 months - why should one decent knock in that time save him?!
I have nothing against the guy, but it's this attitude to our players that has led us to the state we're in - we need players who can score runs on a regular basis, not players always struggling to keep the wolves from the door.
Complain about this comment
Its KPs own words that he bats for himself. I bet even he will say today I got it wrong. I hope so anyway.
Complain about this comment
Brilliant #119 Henman/ Nadal serve volley advice. I like it! Use it often. Brilliant comparison.
Complain about this comment
94 was not enough in the context of the game.
A batsman of Pietersen's talent should have made 194. He had done all the hard work and SA were beginning to feel the pressure.
Nobody's saying that it wasn't a great innings. It just should have been greater.
I realise he was trying to crush Harris etc. But it wasn't necessarily the time to do it. Too early.
Any good team will ego him out. It's a pity. I hope he addresses this weakness, then we will see him score thrilling double hundreds and the confidence of the team generally will rise.
It is a team game.
Complain about this comment
Well done Colly - true Bulldog spirit!
Complain about this comment
It amazes me that people somehow find a way to critisise KP ,despite the fact he is quite clearly englands best batsmen. Probably of all time.
Im a surrey fan,but alex stewart dissapoints me when he raises questions about kp.
Its just jealousy.
Why dont you turn your attentions to M Vaughan? a man who has averaged something in the region of 18 in his last 4 test series.
Complain about this comment
I've agreed with alot of things you've said in these blogs before, but some of this is ridiculous. You are trying to make out that KP is the main culprit here. KP outscored Bell, Cook, Vaughan and Strauss..combined!
Paul Collingwood scored 7 more runs than him and you are acting as though he has put in a hero's effort and KP has been disappointing.
Both of them were terrific, accept it.
Complain about this comment
Interesting stats snelly1986? he averages 'about' 50. What a beautiful word about.
He averages 41 against australia half of those runs were in one innings in the rest he averages 24. Against India he averages 47 including 1 not out hundred and a couple of 50's. So overall 4 good knocks in 24 against 2 good teams. Including a double century and a not out hundred. Definately doesnt hurt the old average.
Complain about this comment
Adding onto my last comment (126). If you are criticising Pietersen for making 94, why aren't you criticising Vaughan for making 40 runs in his last 5 innings.
How come Bell, Cook, Vaughan and Strauss escape criticism even though all of their scores combined was lower than KP's score.
Mabye KP should start getting out before 20 and all of you people who think you know everything about Cricket will be happy.
Complain about this comment
In my eyes, England let themselves down through bad decisions. All the top 6 should have gone in with the attitude that it was essential to bat through the day and still be at the crease tomorrow if the team was going to be in with a shout. A combination of bad shots and playing balls that should have been left alone outside off took apart the innings today. It's simple, you stay in and chip away you create pressure and force SA to change things, You make a quick 25ish and throw away your wicket and you help no one. Our batsman don't play Test cricket, they go in with a 1 day game mentality too often.
If we want to succeed on the test arena (which is still the pinicle of the game in my eyes) you need to score 350-400 regularly. We don't, and therefore we don't succeed. The bowlers don't get the chance with the scores we make.
Complain about this comment
I can't believe the rubbish being spouted on here about KP. The guy plays an awesome innings but suddenly it's his fault we may lose this test because of one rash shot! He scored 94 for goodness sake. but let's look at the facts.
Strauss, Cook, Vaughan, Bell, he scores more than them altogether, but doesn't matter, it's KP's fault
We conceed a test record 35lb in SA's innings, but doesn't matter, it's KP's fault.
I see the words 'ego' and 'team player' crop up yet again, it's that ego that makes KP the player he is, exciting and unorthodox. Maybe, if KP had a 'team' around him he'd be a team player. There is evidence in every game KP plays that he is a complete team player, folks just choose to ignore it.
Let's go with the flow though and do as some idiots on here want, let's drop him!!!
Then we'll see how England do when he's not there to dig them out the hole again.
I. for one would welcome him back to Hampshire where his talents WILL be appreciated.
Stuff England, you don't deserve him.
Complain about this comment
Aggers, i don't think you and the rest of the TMS panel should be too harsh on KP and the way he holed out in his bid to get 100. Don't forget that without KP and his incredible self belief England would have been dead and buried already. KP's incredible self belief can result in his downfall occasionally, but more often than not it has been the catalyst for some epic counter attacks as we have seen today.
The title of your piece could have read "KP and PC conter attack gives England a chance"
I am a real TMS fan but sometimes get slightly depressed with the increasingly myopic and slightly fuddy duddy analysis.
Complain about this comment
KP was the villain today? Get a grip, Aggers ....
Complain about this comment
Stepheast, did a Saffa do something to you in a previous life? Steal your girlfriend perhaps? Were they bigger and meaner than you?
I didn't see anything wrong with their sportsmanship (handshakes for Collie?), but notice a theme to your posts.
Complain about this comment
Aggers, Id rather get out for 94 than 4.
Complain about this comment
The criticism of KP comes about because everyone knows how he can play. He scored 94 runs without really looking like getting out then hits a poor shot.
fair enough without the 94 he scored england would be in some trouble but like porcos said he should be scoring 194.
he simply gets out with poor shots that he doesnt need to play and will continue to do so until he sorts his ego out.
Complain about this comment
Davebull32 has it spot on. Complaining about a 94 that has helped drag England back into the game is easy and poor journalism. The first innings was the place for criticism not the second. Makes you wonder how Aggers would cope with the criticism he's directing at Pietersen and the Captain. They are not immune but neither he is and standards are definitely slipping as this shows. Negativity is the easy option. Will all be retracted if a win is achieved?
Complain about this comment
TRIPE, i'm afraid, Mr. Agnew.
Vaughan can't be dropped because what? No one else? What a feeble excuse. If England continue to carry him then it's a very sorry state of affairs...and would just prolong the stench coming from English cricket, which really has stunk these last few weeks. What's going on behind closed doors is, if you'll pardon the pun 'NOT CRICKET!'
...and Pietersen is what he is. His personality makes him the man he is today. Like in all walks of life, not just sport, it takes the the extraordinary to produce the extraordinary. Unfortunately so many of this England team are quite ordinary, hence the results.
Pietersen will learn, but he needs to do it his way.
Complain about this comment
ManUnited2008, its not often i agree with a Man U fan so dont get used to it but your completley right, i would like to state once more that i am astounded at the amount of people criticising Pietersen. Lets compare Pietersen and Bell. Two rash shots, two shots which if executed would have been great shots. Two cheap wickets to lose. Its the same so far. Bell (20), Pietersen (94). Hmm that makes Pietersen better than Bell. And yet i hear no complaints about Bell, but Pietersen is slated. 94 invaluable runs and he gets a absolute tramping in the press and of cricket fans alike. SHAMEFUL.
Dave.
Complain about this comment
let's just hope we can put on another 60 or so, be bowled out so it's not in our hands and then we're made to defend a total and get Freddie fired up. Only way we can win in my view and then a fantastic day's cricket to be had, with the edgbaston crowd behind the team. and an afternoon session to behold. can you tell I'm going tomorrow? bring it on! GSD
Complain about this comment
Good to see all the comments defending KP. He is our best player and will have learnt from what happened today.
The batting is a problem. Four bowlers is one too few, yet the batsman are too inconsistent to allow any other course.
Complain about this comment
have to agree with those pointing to the fact that Pietersen's ego is the thing that makes him the player he is. You can't praise him for his self-confidence when he scores the big runs but then chastise him for arrogance when he holes out as today. Every player in the game has a flaw, this just happens to be Pietersen's.
Complain about this comment
Alec Stewart test match average 39.54.
KP test match average 50.36.
Enough said.
Complain about this comment
Cook, Broad and Panesar could murder a bagful of kittens and Aggers/CMJ etc al would still love them regardless.
Kevin Pieterson could save an orphanage and Aggers/CMJ et al would still treat him with scepticism, waiting for an opportunity to put the boot in at a later date.
Complain about this comment
see you there tomorrow. I think we can win. if you see a billy no mates with a floppy sun hat buy him a drink. it's me! come on England!
Complain about this comment
I'm split over todays performance.
On the one hand I'm thrilled that England have put on a competative score, and it was good to see Collingwood find some form.
On the other hand it now means that the batting lineup will remain unchanged for another series when what is desperately needed is a bit of fresh blood in the batting. If the selectors are going to just keep playing the same batsmen irrespective of form safe in the knowledge that sooner or later they'll come good, even if it means obviously carrying a couple of batsmen, then what hope do CC players have of getting in the side.
Complain about this comment
oh please. can't we just enjoy one game? we can't change the team now just back them. takers? beer tomorrow?
Complain about this comment
I'll be there at 10.30. drink in the first bar after the entrance. see you there. GSD
Complain about this comment
I posted on here the other day saying that despite his terrific character, Collingwood should be dropped as a test cricketer.
I was quite clearly wrong.
Ade
Complain about this comment
I'm afraid it is becoming evident that Aggers' form in commentary has become as fallible as England's fragile top order. He seems blissfully unaware that we have one batsmen that has an average in excess of 50, furthermore, the very same batsmen who continuously produces at the very highest level...when the stakes are, equally, at their highest. He lives by that cavalier sword, and so it is right that he die by it. Aggers is the same man who applauds him for the switch shot when he pulls it off...remember he did so when into the 80's...would he have been so glowing had he holed out? Judging by recent form, I imagine so. It is time for the critical acclaim to accept that they ask for the impossible - 100% perfection, 100% of the time. This South African team is probably the best team in the world right now, and we're competing!!! What's wrong with that???! One bad match and the whole house falls down, so we are led to believe. Our top 6 all average over 40, we have a world class allrounder at 7. Top 10 bowler, one of the best spinners in the world (albeit a terrible fielder), and the likes of jones, harmison, hoggard on the sidelines....it really isn't that bad. Get a grip
Complain about this comment
I too am tired of reading nothing but bad press for any England team, granted a lot of the time they underperform, but it seems that the media does indeed take pleasure in cutting people down.
All this talk of a team game and KP being irresponsible is getting old, he is a brilliant player and may have been baited into getting out, but watching his innings he was baited every ball he faced, so its not that rash. If you have the opionion that he should be more of a team player then he could have just as easily have played like the rest of the team, stuck around for a bit, not scored and then gotten out. His effort did wonders for the team. He isn't Kallis (despite his thousands of test runs he is without a doubt the most boring batsman in the world), he isn't ponting . . . he is kp, he rarely walks to the crease with England far ahead in a match yet almost always adds the runs we need. The press loved his arrogance and 'risky' shot selection when he was slog sweeping Warne with fielders on the ropes in the ashes. Lay off and let him do his job.
Nobody has batted an eyelid at flintoff's 4 ball stay, his return to test bowling has been magnificent, and his form with the bat is improving, but just because he is a bad starter against spin, excusing his wicket because of a weakness is rediculous . . . KP's weakness is he is aggressive, likes to dominate bowlers and wants to win yet he is criticised for it, tho for freddie to get out by his weakness with no runs is fine!? It's madness and double standards.
Colly would have probably been out with less than 10 runs had he walked to the crease with anybody other than KP. Though still a fantastic show of guts from him, I hope he can add some more in the morning.
Complain about this comment
cheghedges #127, oh i love that old chestnut. "take away away his big scores and he wouldnt average so much."
yes, and whats your point? the point is he made those big scores.
if you want to be precise, ian bell averages 25.1 against australia, and 26.7 against india, with a highest score of 87.
you are being pedantic and its getting you nowhere.
Complain about this comment
To all the KP knockers - his regular tactic is to impose himself on the bowlers by playing attacking, and often risky, shots. So he got carried away nearing the century just as Boycs was busy saying the feller can't bowl. It was a stupid mistake, but he'd got England back into the match, unlike Cook, Strauss, Vaughan and Bell. Save your criticism for those under achievers.
KP is the only consistant world class player we have, the rest (unfortnately for all England fans) are not. Look at the averages: Vaughan, Colly, Bell, Cook an Strauss all average about 40, whereas KP is nearer 50. Now look at the Ozzies - with Hussey (68), Ponting (58), Hayden (53), Hodge (55), Jacques (47), Clarke (47) and Symonds (45)!
I find it incredible that KP is getting all the flak.
Complain about this comment
Comment 119 : stwl2006
I'm not sure where you get the idea of mediocrity from.
There's a fallacy going round that we have no option but to accept Pietersen's shortcomings, because they're a fundamental part of his character, and without them we'd also lose much of what it is that makes him so good at what he does. In other words, no small part of the impetus that drives him to what he does well derives from the very same self-focus that also causes him to make some pretty crass mistakes.
I'm not for a moment saying that this is categorically wrong, but what I would say is that there really is no evidence that it is definitely right, either.
We have a very fearful approach in this country to our treatment of successful talent. We look at it, and our focus is entirely on not doing anything which could be held responsible for diminishing it. So paralysed are we in inactivity that our inner selves are required to make up false positives converting "doing nothing" into "enabling him to play his natural game" or "letting him express himself".
Why are we so fearful? Why don't we look at emerging talent and say "look what we've got to lose if we just allow this to develop undirected"?
Your Henman/Nadal comment is a bit ridiculous too, I'm afraid. What's wrong with Henman making a judgment that Nadal would be a better player if he improved his serve/volley? Is it wrong, just because he's not as good a player as Nadal? Or are you saying that the only people entitled to make observations about someone else are those who are at least their equals in performance? Whether or not what they are saying is right or wrong.
Complain about this comment
i couldnt disagree with you more aggers.
You describe pietersens stroke as irresponsible. its the way he plays the game - switch hitting isnt the most sensible thing to do but he does it and does it well.
you also maintain that the south africans know how to get at pietersen by getting at his ego... well theyve clearly not been doing a very good job of it cos hes averaging 61.60 this series.
you then go on to ask if ponting or kallis would have done the same thing - of course they wouldnt because theyre totally different players... have you ever seen kallis or ponting switch hit in test cricket?? thats not taking anything away from kallis or ponting who are clearly class players but just recognising that they are different.
finally you say that pietersen should have merely picked off the runs... well thats not how he played the rest of the innings - at one point him and collingwood were flying along at over 4.5 runs per over.
pietersen plays how he plays... you cant applaud all his exciting, imaginative and world class batting without realising that batting as he does, he is going to get out playing a bad shot every so often. if you take that ego out of his game then you make him half the player he is. i wish there were more english players with the confidence and ego of KP and Freddie who are prepared to take the game to the opposition.
Complain about this comment
Pedantic? 40 avg/ 50avg aren't the same it's just facts. Not small marhins.You keep going with your love in for Collingwood super little all round one day cricketer but essex have four just like him.
Complain about this comment
Hats off to Collingwood today. I confess I have been one of those calling for him to be dropped. There have been plenty calling for him to be replaced by Owais Shah or Ravi Bopara. Would Shah or Bopara have played an innings like that today given the situation? Don't think so.
The Pietersen issue is a tricky one. I can understand the frustration, given the situation England were in, with the two batsmen firmly on top and he goes and plays a very loose "egotistical" shot. The bottom line is that a spinner like Harris should never have been gifted the wickets of Pietersen and Flintoff by virtue of loose hitting. However, England wouldn't have been in that situation if Pietersen hadn't taken the attack to the bowlers anyway, and so maybe the emphasis should be on the runs he made rather than the ones he could have made.
Final word for Tim Ambrose. Only 19 runs but made for a crucial partnership. Staying unbeaten overnight could be the confidence boost he needs, and hopefully he'll get a few more tomorrow.
Complain about this comment
aggers i think you should be axed as a pundit. how can you blame pietersen? as soon as pietersen makes one error he gets the blame just because he is englands best player. i think england have got the side right for this test match.
cook is in the runs,
strauss is in good form but needs to produce runs and sort out this around the wicket problem.
vaughan looked a million dollars today and his dismissal came out of the blue. on sky sports they analysed it and there was nothing wrong with how he played it. he was unlucky today but needs runs.
pietersen need i say more.
colly has cemented his place for the next test match only.
freddie's back.
ambrose needs to be dropped. i would say geraint jones but i too have to admit his days are gone. james foster should have a go.
sid
anderson
panesar. shud be dropped if england come across any seamer friendly wickets and bring in the back up seamers. i.e jones, harmison, tremlett, broad, mahmood.
Complain about this comment
I was full of criticism for Collingwood before today, but credit where credit is due. His batting effort today was outstanding. If England win this match then a large chunk of the credit will have to go to Collingwood for a performance that really got England out of the woods.
Another positive here is that if this really is a recovery of form from Paul Collingwood, it creates a great competition for a place in the side. With Broad, Shah and Bopara all knocking at the batting door and Harmison, Jones, Tremlett, Hoggard and even Pattinson pushing the bowlers we have a group of players who will all need to really work hard for their place in the team.
Looking forward to the next couple of days!
Complain about this comment
Excellencefirst:
I think think the point is that henman WAS a great(ish) player for us and the best we had for some time, BUT never was or will be as great a player as Nadal . . . . so it is always easy to criticise those better than you, especially when you are no longer in the sport to 'show them how its done'
With regards to fear of talent . . . there is a certain amount of fear and not knowing what to do with it when it comes along, but far too often, the talent you try to mould gets broken, this is what happened with anderson when he first broke onto the scene, good, fast bowling, they tried to mould him intot what he wanted, it took away his natural rhythm, made him more erratic and then he got injured and is only JUST becoming the player he was those years ago.
Taking KP's talent and trying to make him what somebody thinks is a "better" athlete is silly, he may have an ego, but that ego has never cost England as dearly as the mistakes selectors have made recently. When you see KP in the field what is he doing? Constantly encouraging his team, comforting players who drop catches . . . being a team player. Cricket is a team sport, but every team is made of individuals who need to understand how they fit in that team and KP knows his job and carries it out time and again. His test career is still quite young and although he has never made that massive score people keep talking about, Im sure he will before long, maybe next years' ashes!
Complain about this comment
cheg, i'm not in love with collingwood at all.
i think he is a fighter, and i admire him for that; however he is not a world class batsman. in fact, our batters as a unit have not been doing their job properly for a long time.
as a sidenote, i just read an insightful article on cricinfo titled "englands comfortable stagnation", which kind suggests englands batsman dont have the fire/desire to improve because englands batting line up has become like an old boy's club. i agree with him.
its time to make changes. problem is, the only candidates are key, shah and bopara. but i wouldnt drop collingwood - the first two out the door would be vaughan and bell.
Complain about this comment
Jonathan, I've followed your blog since its inception and thoroughly enjoy your reporting.
However, today, I've been prompted for the first time to comment on this board.
I still can't believe that you could criticise KP for his wonderful 94. Perhaps it's out of disappointment that his entertaining innings came to an end... imagine if he'd hit a 6!
Surely the criticism should be aimed at his team mates - Strauss, MV, Cook, Bell...
KP is the most entertaining batter in world cricket currently - expectation is always high when he comes in to bat. He's the leading run scorer in the series so far - I think you should cut him some slack!
Complain about this comment
Trying to showboat your way to a ton is no way to play in a tense test match situation and Alec Stewart was so on the button with his analysis on the radio when the dismissal happened. In fact Alec's comments should be his application for Peter Moore's job. So what if Alec hasn't acheived level 150 on the ECB coaches qualifications (yes I do know the top level is really 5) but we need our side coached by people who know what it is like to play at the top level.
Alec hopes that the coaching team will give KP a rocket but they will sit him infront of the laptop and realise he turned his top hand a little anti-clockwise so losing power in the shot that got him out or some other nonsense.
Fair play to Collingwood though as I don't know anyone who thought he should be in the side. Think he may owe that 100 to KP's terrible shot as that must have concentrated his mind and also probably didn't want to have to be back in the changing room listening to KP going on about how unsettled he was taking a drink from a 12th man he hadn't been training with over the past 3 years.
Complain about this comment
TheVoiceofReason is talking absolute b******s. Does he (or is it she) realize how difficult it is to score a ton against top class test opposition? She's probably another footie fan. Is there not a way in which they can be banned from posting here? Like taking an intelligence test before they're allowed to post. Anyway, well done KP and Colly and, let's face it, Ambrose. It looked like it was going to be all over by end of play yesterday. Let's get behind the team tomorrow...
Complain about this comment
...i mean, today...
Complain about this comment
The faith and judgement of the England captain seems justified after 101 unbeaten runs from the man he wanted in his team.
The team is still 60 runs away from a juicy lead, its a pity he didnt get them himself.
Complain about this comment
I really fail to understand the people dismissing the fair and logical criticism of the way KP got out when all of us admit that he is by far England's best batsman. You can't have it both ways.
Either he is the best batsman or he is not and, since he is, he should be demonstrating a lot more responsibility. If, God forbid, England crash to defeat tomorrow, many people will be pointing to him as one of the most important reasons. He had it in his hands to take England to a position where thay could not lose and, maybe even win, but failed to do so.
He had earlier demonstrated enormous patience to build a big innings, as he has before, not just 94 but something which would have changed the whole direction of the match. OK so this is the way he plays and we should be grateful that there is someone out there capable of momentarily putting the opposition on the back foot. But this is a test match, not a one day match.
When he was dismissed, he was completely aware that he had screwed it up. England has a very long tail and we cannot expect Flintoff to put everything right. Flintoff is in the team as a bowler, possibly the best fast bowler in the world, as he began to show last night. He cannot be expected to suddenly recover the destructive form as a batsman that won him so many plaudits in 2005.
In short, we should be grateful that Collingwood came back from the dead and is playing the innings of his life. If Engand finally save the match or even win it, the man of the match may well be Collingwood, even if it is really the bowlers that are the architects of their success.
I have never posted my ideal Engand team on this blog as so many "blorrespondents" have done. If all, goes well tomorrow, I may well do so.
England are at the crossroads. South Arfrica are not Australia, and this series has shown that they are far from unbeatable. Tomorrow should show whether what I am saying is true.
Complain about this comment
Miserable as ever Agnew.
I bet you're really disappointed that you haven't got an excuse to have your USUAL dig at Jimmie Anderson.
He's a Test Match bowler, unlike yourself.
Complain about this comment
Pietersen could easily have been out twice in the same over to Kallis. Hes unorthodox ,and very capable of taking a game away from ANY team. Recall, he was swashbuckling against the aussies in the final test of the 2005 ashes, and ended up SAVING it for England, despite given up a couple of chances. If AB had dropped that difficult catch I think England might be 387 for 4 with the game well in hand. He showed great fortitude when he first came in, helped Collingwood settle and the set about the bowling. OK, so you dont have another Trevor Bailey, Len Hutton, or Peter May in the fold, but he does it hes way, like it or not. As a SA fan, I rue the stupidity of KZN in not playing him in the provincial team. He is ONE OF A FEW batsmen in world cricket today that Id pay to see anywhere anytime. STOP looking for reasons to criticise him, he single handedly helped Collingwood and gave England a better than fighting chance tomorrow. What a magnificent ENTERTAINING player you have in KP, end of story. Boycott and co. you couldnt have done that with 2 days to play let alone one. To me Boycott is the snail, KP the hare, which would you rather see on any given day. At one stage England was scoring at over 5 runs an over and had Smith panicking. He just mistimed it, end of story.
Complain about this comment
Your critism of KP is ridiculous, there's no wonder you only played 3 tests - perhaps if you fully understood the pressure that goes along with trying to save a test match whilst all around you are giving their wicket away I might respect your opinion. As my Aussie mate says, you only have 2 match winners (KP and Freddie) and even then you try to get them dropped, no wonder you are a bunch of losers.......... Aggers, get a grip.
Complain about this comment
I think that Alec Stewart and Aggers hit the nail on the head. This is a Test Match not a 20-20 or 50 over game. I am a huge fan of KP, but it was quite clear today that he was going for glory with that 6. KP is England's best batsman by far, and long may that continue. But every time he comes out to bat I just feel that he is going to be out for a quickfire 15. He was admirably restrained early in his innings, but let himself get carried away by the occasion. In my opinion he will never be considered a truly "great" batsman until that stops.
Complain about this comment
Shame on you Aggers. Totally disagree with criticism of Pietersen. the reason we have a 200+ lead is because KP and Collingwood played the way they did. You have to take risks to achieve things in sport and I am surpised a former sportsman does not see that!
If Collingwood continues in the same vein tomorrow and Ambrose hangs in there, who knows we may get a victory out of this.
Steve
Complain about this comment
I think its pretty embarrassing people are knocking Aggers and Stewart for critiscising KP.
Pietersen was obviously dissapointed on missing out on those 4 runs, and further time at the crease. KP wants to be a player who makes hundreds and a player who wins games for his team. A batsmen who is perfectly satisfied with 94 runs and doesnt mind getting out to a bowler who can be kept at bay is not the batsmen I want representing our country.
The experts on TMS are considered experts because they arnt satisfied with that either.
Complain about this comment
Look, at the end of the day, the man made a mistake, hes got plenty of tests ahead of him and i'm sure he won't make the same mistake again.
At least he got to that stage !
Vaughen should NOT be in the squad on merit, nor for any other reasons, and the same could be said for 2 or 3 other batsmen, strauss included.
Complain about this comment
If you live by the sword, sometimes you have to die by the sword. Pietersen played magnificently today when England needed it most, and did so by taking the attack to the South Africans. Of course we all wish he had gone on to 150 and beyond, but that's the way Pietersen plays. You can't expect him to play audacious reverse hits and then reel himself in afterwards. Your criticisms smack of someone who longs for the days of 2 runs an over to return to test cricket, Aggers. Pietersen is a treasure, do not try to ruin him with unfair criticism.
Complain about this comment
Rubbish Aggers! Pieterson hits a six and you say "Fine shot". He plays the same shot and gets caught and you say "Irresponsible".
You can't have it both ways.
He is simply the most talented and exciting batsman we have. Accept him as he is. He will never be a safe player. Others must be the sheet anchor, so don't expect him to ever remotely fill that role.
Keep entertaining us KP.
Complain about this comment
I'm surprised you're blaming KP, Aggers.
I'd have thought you'd say it was all the evil TWENTY20's fault!
Complain about this comment
Have to agree what was said earlier from Pot and co..... we seem to be so negative about the style of cricket played and have precious little good to say about the game... it's all very footbally, myopic and seemingly good copy for the journo's, tabloids et al, but I guarantee it just undermines the team and players..
If you're an England fan (I am) and you listen to all the pontificating that goes on with the "game form" of all our players then it might be unsurprising that over the last 10 tests from comments revealed no-one in the side is actually safe, with the possible exception of Freddie, who's only been back two games, thus is above (presently) all forms of castigation (given time).
So... all this tripe about KP being selfish, playing for the ton etc.. we'd have taken a forward defensive, dibbly-dobbly Boycotty / Edrich cum Tavare type forward defensive shot that might have wooed the technically astute amongst us, but "cow" corner... oh no!! shelled out and sold out to the masses.
As for Vaughn himself, someone else posted a few days back, judge him at the end of the series.
Aggers, sad article... very sad indeed.
Mylo
Complain about this comment
For some time, I have been following the BBC cricket blogs and, every so often, adding my modest contributions to the debate.
I have been sad to see that, when things are not going well for England, many contributors have descended to expressions of insult toward their fellow bloggers who don't agree with them . It may be that the contributions of their fellow bloggers are stupid or very questionable, but you have to put the oppposite argument.
The BBC blogs are a very good opportunity for everyone to express their views. Let's keep it like that.
Complain about this comment
First of all, colly, top work pal, you have truely proved your critics wrong........and i must admit i was one of them. But i was extremely annoyed when players after players (michael atherton etc.) kept slating Pieterson for trying to hit a six. OK the man was on 94 and OK 6 more would of made him 100 but he is an aggressive batsman and thats who he is. In addition Collingwood did exactly the same thing on 94 and he hit his 6, therefore he made 100 runs. But according to two faces commintators it was an coragous thing to do and he is a ledgend because of it. If you make 94 runs you have done well.............end of story. Pieterson you are an attacking batsmen, that why people pay to watch you, you mishit one bad shot and you get ridicules. Keep doing it mate, unlucky.
p.s. Top comeback colly, i am sorry i doubted you!
Complain about this comment
KP was indeed a muppet for getting out the way he did (honestly, you do those reverse sweeps to get Harris to stop bowling a negative line over the wicket, then throw it all away as soon as he comes back round the wicket. Where's the planning there?).
But you can't take away the 94 runs that he did score, taking England from "not a chance in hell" to "another good partnership and we're right in this". You also can't take away the way his batting took the pressure off Collingwood, and prompted him to score freely (because in hindsight, the only way for Colly to end his first-class run drought was always going to be to treat this like a one-day game, where he's been doing okay).
I guess in a way Pietersen's fortunate that Colly did find a partner in Ambrose and that he got through to his century. It all rests now on how many England can get tomorrow.
Complain about this comment
Lamentable though KP's wicket was, had the top three done their jobs and got 40/50 runs each, then SA wouldn't have been able to set that attacking field for him.
The whole point of playing him at four is so that he can unleash his talent on an old ball to defensive fields. He did a brilliant job of not letting SA (who only have to draw this one, remember) strangle the game and put pressure on, even when Harris was bowling leg side left arm over.
If he DID bat like Boycott, or Atherton, or Gooch, or Stewart, then he'd be opening. But he bats like no-one else on Earth, like that stick of willow is a fifth limb he's had since the womb, and cricket, never mind England, are all the better for it. One stupid shot does not make him at fault if England can't win it.
Also, well done to England's bowlers, especially Sidebottom, who finally replaced his mediocre identical twin who's been covering for him for a couple of days.
Complain about this comment
The headline is spot on, and i'm surpised a lot more of the erudite scribblers have not cottoned on to this before. Ever since Pietersen has played test cricket for England, he has been playing mainly for himself, not the team. Time and again his innings have rarely taken the match balance situation into consideration.
The point is, as Aggers rightly says, scoring 94 is utterly pointless if it turns out that an innings of say 150 was needed to win the match. The only thing that will have benefitted is Pietersen's test average, and this too often is all he seems to care about.
All the talent in the world does not excuse him of this. An innings of 94, is still the innings of a loser, if it does not win the match.
Complain about this comment
KP will never be great batting like he does, but he should remain in the side.
Colly and Strauss should remain until they can help Moores mold a new captain.
Vaughan must be dropped ASAP. He's worthless other than setting fields and changing bowlers. Who should replace him??? Not sure, but anyone that can average 25 with the bat and has half a brain would be an upgrade.
England....get over the Ashes victory and move on with quality players.
Complain about this comment
Only in England do you get a situation where one player consistently showing the ability to make a fight of it is blamed for losing the whole game. What you see is what you get with KP – more runs than anyone else, especially under pressure, avaerage over 50. Have a look at the other top five. He’ll always suffer just like Gower did – it’s a criminal offence to get out entertaining in England versus quite acceptable to grind out less than ten and then be out.
Complain about this comment
Well done Kp and Colly, im sick and tired of the critics in this country and im only 22, why dont you guys get behind your country for once! Ive folloed england since i was a kid and i think this is one of the best teams on paper (maybe simon jones in somehow)!
Kp is englands most talented player and is a legend and a role model in my eyes the way he approaches a game and the aggression he shows in an innings!
Come on england 2morro should be good viewing....lead of 300, bowl them out for 298!ha
Complain about this comment
I agree - leave KP alone!
Although I was equally dissapointed to hear his dismissal (on TMS from Tokyo - thank god for TMS by the way), he did essentially make the innings that saved England another 3 day defeat. Collingwood wouldn't have done it without KP there too..
When Ian Bell struggles, the excuse is always that he's a young player, and that he will eventually come good. Comparisons were made earlier this year with Kallis, who also had a sketchy start to his career.
Yet Kev, who has been playing test cricket for the same period of time, is castigated for playing a match saving 94. Had he scored that 6 we would all have wet ourselves, and the South Africans heads would have completely dropped. All four of the previous England batsmen got in and lost their wickets playing senseless shots. It was only Pietersen's extra skill that got him the extra 70 runs before this inevitable rush of blood arrived, which incidentally I assume is what Moores and Flower are teaching them...
Complain about this comment
I have to say, all this complaining about Peterson getting out is a joke. The guy has given England some real class since he joined us. Does everyone forget that during the mighty winning Ashes series that Peterson hit that magnificent century. He took Australia on in all his extravagant best, yet if Warne had caught him early we would have lost the Ashes. What makes him so good are the extravagant things he does. You cannot praise him when it comes off and sentence him when it doesn't. It is just another case of 'tall poppy' and Jonathan Agnew should be ashamed that he is intent on cutting down those tall poppies that English sport so desperately needs.
Complain about this comment
Everyone who slagged Colly, come and get your mega-sized slice of humble pie with a side of crow!
Form is temporary, class is permanent. Like some posters have said before -- we held our faith in Colly and he has repaid us in spades. May he continue tomorrow.
350 is cutting it close, 400 is probably best. No matter what, Day 4 is about wresting ascendancy, keeping it, and then putting it on the top shelf too far for South Africa to reach. Now if there is one person who can do that, it's Colly.
Complain about this comment
England has put themselves in a winning position, thanks to two brilliant knocks from KP and Colly. On Day Four Colly and Co should try and remain at the crease even beyond tea. Monty Panesar has had a good rest so far in this match and his role in innings Four will be crucial for England. With one end blocked by the wily spinner, Freddie, Anderson, Sidebottom and Colly could make things difficult for the visitors in the remaining sessions. This Test match has been enthralling so far, the coming two days could be even more. Test Match cricket is indeed the real thing. Long live Test cricket.
Dr. Cajetan Coelho
Complain about this comment
187 - rileyspa1 - couldn't agree more.
Without the likes of KP, and his so-called "ego", what a dull game this would be!
Don't know what it's like for other countries' supporters listening to their press, but do they also focus almost entirely on the negatives like our lot?
The 94 brilliant runs he scored got merely a passing mention.
Shameful.
Complain about this comment
It is interesting reading the various comments about KP's innings. His 94 has been variously described as being "brilliant". It was a good knock and his contribution was invaluable, but "brilliant" it was most certainly not. The bowling from the South Africans was at times woeful, and he quite rightly seized on that. At a time when his side needs him to knuckle down, occupy the crease and build partnerships, he is switch hitting (which by the way he has not pioneered as is suggested by some). Switch hitting as KP has accepted himself is not playing a high percentage game. Neither is going for the glory of getting his century with a six. If the English supporters are happy with his contribution of 94 as being sufficient, then that highlights the fundamental problem with English cricket. If Ricky Ponting had behaved in the way that KP did then he would have been murdered by the Australian press as being selfish and egotistical. To bat in the manner that Pietersen did might be entertaining but it was selfish. Ponting, Kallis, Lara, Tendulkar - they would not have bated ith the same selfishness as Pietersen. He will not be a great player until such time as he plays for his team, rather than himself. Likewise, the English team cannot be a great team until such time as the English supporters understand that to get out playing a stupidly selfish shot on 94 was just not good enough in the scheme of the game. Perhaps relying on the fact that he is the "best batsman in England", Pietersen should have a look (as should the English supporters) at the recent innings of Sewag - 201 from 231 balls. That was a "brilliant" innings. When one compares KP with truly great players rather than the English middle order, he doesn't seem so good.
Complain about this comment
WHO NEEDS ENEMIES!
Jonathan, you and the likes of Alec Stewart have a responsibility as more senior ex-cricketers to provide mature and constructive criticism.
If the England team win, the team will receive the praise, but if they lose a suitable scapegoat will be fashioned by your poisoned quill. In this case you have already blamed Pietersen.
This is easy and inflammatory journalism and does not address more serious underlying issues.
Can you imagine an England line-up without Pietersen? It is not only the 94 runs he scored but indeed the manner in which he scored it, that has swung the game and provided a platform for Collingwood to build on (and it takes a character like Collingwood to make something of the opportunity, despite all the daggers in his back).
When Flintoff was struggling with his personal discipline in a previous series, Boycott said; don't slate him, manage him!
Pietersen and Flintoff have special gifts which put them in a league of 'matchwinners'. All teams need them. They are by nature not support players, but they can swing a game by their very individuality. Why crucify them?
If you ask opposition teams who they fear most in the England side, they will mention Pietersen, Flintoff and Collingwood. If you ask fellow England players who they value most in their line-up, you would probably get the same response.
Jonathan and Alec, your opinions reach very many people. YOU HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO BE WISE IN YOUR CRITICISM!
Complain about this comment
94 was indeed a fantastic score, however KP had a responsibility with the situation that England were in to stay there until the close of play, thus gaining ground over SA. He chose personal glory at a time where it was definitely not needed, and all to satisfy his already large ego. Im a big fan of KP and he is one of the best batsmen in the world, but he clearly was not thinking of the team or the teams position. This alone surely shows that he should never captain England should Vaughan be given the flick.
Good on Colly though - he needed that!
Complain about this comment
Chaps all those defending KP, and I am a great fan, miss one salient point. Greatness is a term we all use too often. To be great when you are on 94 you play for the team and get to one hundred, and then you reset and start again. This is what the Australians do. We seem to think that once we got 100 that is it job done, at least I cannot be dropped! We need players to make 150-200 runs. That is greatness. What Aggers goes on about is all about his frustration that KP does not seem to get it. Play with your brain and your heart KP. Know when to let the barin kick in and you will be a great player. At the moment you are good, very, very good, but greatness awaits. Let your brain rule your heart.
Australians understand how to grind a side down. Get them down and then kick dirt in their face. The South Africans are vulnerable psychologically. Get 50 more runs this morning and it could be interesting if Sidebottom can get it in the right places.
Complain about this comment
Aggers is right. If Pieterson could combine his talent with a more mature brain, he would be at a different level. Cavalier shots are part fo his game and the attraction of the player but he needs to play for the team as well.
Colly always plays for the team and despite his recent dip of form his fielding is usually worth a wicket or two per innings.
Bell like Pieterson frustrates. Again he has enormous talent, but once he gets to the 30's or fifties he often fritters away his opportunity to score a century with a rush of blood or a reckless shot.
Vaughan needs to be dropped. His constant failure with the bat demoralizes the side and his excuses are weak. His fielding is mediocre. He caught Boucher well yesterday, but in the series he has dropped catches and is rather pedestrian in the field. If he finds form at Yorkshire and strings together some high scores then he should return to the side.
Bell should remain in the side as he will improve if guided and supported by the rest of the top order.
Strauss is returning to form and a good team player. He would be a good captain and the responsibility would probably enhance his batting.
Replace Vaughan with Bopara and you add a player who is a fine fielder, a bowling option and a rapidly improving batsman.
Tim Ambrose is struggling at this level. Matt Prior adds batting firepower and creates a more hostile environment for opposing batmen. He needs to improve his glovework. But the lineup below would have more vertebra
Cook
Strauss
Bell
Pieterson
Bopara
Collingwood
Flintoff
Prior
Anderson
Sidebottom
Panesar
Panesar has stuggled but he is a match winner and will improve with time and experience.
Complain about this comment
Well done Collingwood and peiterson. In fact well done England. But how frustrating is this team! Bell, Cook, Pieterson contributing to their downfall and the others not a great deal better. Collingwood going to his century with a six as well!
I must accept that the game has changed. There are a lot more results now, draws are relatively quite rare. Years ago this would have been a nailed on draw. But scoring rates are so high now and very few players, play in what I think of as a traditional style of test match cricket. Everything has to happen quickly.
This leads to exciting cricket, but also frustration as opportunities are squandered. Perhaps you can't have everything?
Right now we look as if we will lose this series and we did not have to. Perhaps if Peiterson was not the type of player who gott out as he did and didn't need to, he would not be the type of player to get there in the first place.
For me Peiterson is a genius with the bat, but not a great as to be great you have to fulfill your potential.
Bradman was the greatest run machine ever and he only hit a handful of sixes, believing that if it went on the floor, you don't get caught out.
The game is now more entertaining than ever but many years of watching old-fashioned cricket have encouraged me to want to secure the draw and then go for victory. We seem to be heading towards flash bang wallop test cricket and my guess is that that is what people want. Often it is enjoyable, but matches and series are lost that need not be. Perhaps thaat doesn't matter we all had a good time.
It will matter to me when Australia arrive.
Complain about this comment
Fantasic effort from both Collingwood AND Pietersen! Sure, being caught in the outfield when your team is in trouble isn't great but it was Pietersen's positive attitude and his class which began the fightback and I think you have to take the rough with the smooth. We all celebrate with him when it comes off (Oval 2005!) so lets enjoy Pietersen for what he is - the most exiting and best English batsman for a VERY long time.
As for Collingwood - amazing! We all knew KP could pull off an innings like that but I think most of us thought Collingwoods days like that were behind him, at least for now.
I do hope the countless other posters who like me queried his selection will join with me in congratulating him and the selectors for getting it right and not ignore the fact thet our team selections would probably already have lost us the match by now!
Fair play Mr Collingwood - great knock!
Complain about this comment
KP is obviously a very skilled and hugely impressive batsman. But in my mind he can never be considered a truly "great" batsman until he can stop throwing his wicket away at critical times.
It is not enough to score quick runs or compile a large personal total - but at that stage of the match it was SO important for England not to lose a wicket.
How much more valuable 297-4 and two top bastsmen in to face the bowlers fresh in the morning of day 4, than 297-6 ? How many times has Petersen seemed to lose concentration and his wicket at crucial times after putting in a great display?
I am sorry, but until Petersen can CONSISTENTLY turn possible match saving innings into match-winning innings, and be a batsman renowned for being difficult to dismiss in tight situations, he can never be called one of the true greats, or the best batsman in the world.
Complain about this comment
This is a perfect example of the benefit of putting top order batsmen under pressure for a place.
Collingwood was dropped, got the message and, like Vaughan's catch, had a live or die approach.
The selectors need to say to all the batsmen that they can NEVER expect to be in the next Test Match.
Complain about this comment
I can't believe anyone can be critical of Pietersen, it was his positive aggression that has given England a sniff of victory when the game was all but lost. 21 runs in front, four 2nd innings wickets down and he and Collingwood were scoring around six an over. Because he plays one shot too many and gets out he is slaughtered for it, never mind he made 94 and had he batted conservatively we'd have lost already.
So he overdid it, so what. Had he not been positive then the South African bowlers would have had more control and wouldn't have gone to pieces when THEY were put under pressure. It's not as if Collingwood hasn't played a risky shot, the pitch is good but I've maintained all along it is a 300 pitch and if you let the bowlers settle then noone is 'in'.
Well done Collingwood, he should have been dropped a while ago but he's taken his (last) chance with both hands and surely can't be dropped. Vaughan on the other hand surely can't be retained, he's scored just 40 runs this series and taken England to the brink of series defeat. But for Pietersen and Collingwood I think he'd be making his excuses in interviews and looking every bit the mischevious and cheeky schoolboy he is looking more and more.
If England had only shown a bit more application, technique and control then I think England would win this game easily :-
1st inns
Strauss - poor technique to the short ball
Collingwood - wrong shot selected
Ambrose - indecisive in his shot (selection)
Anderson - silly run out
Panesar - silly run out
2nd inns
Cook - poor shot selection and execution
Vaughan - poor shot execution
Bell - poor shot selection and execution
Pietersen - one aggressive shot/risk too many
Flintoff - poor defensive technique to spin
16 England wickets fallen, even ignoring questionable dismissals England have gifted South Africa NINE wickets. Just as well Collingwood, Pietersen and Ambrose have shown application or this series would be South Africa dormy two with one to play
So lay off Pietersen and just a word of caution regards Collingwood, the gamble may have paid off this once but only his next few innings will tell whether the faith shown in him is justified. That said, Collingwood has scored around as many runs this Test as numbers six and seven did combined in the entire 2nd Test
Complain about this comment
Just out of interest I looked up how many sixes Bradman scored in tests...answer 6.
He also apparently scored a century and double century in a pre-test selection match in 1929/30...in one day!
Greatness
I do hope to see the day when we all agree that Pieterson was a great.
Good luck to England today.
I also agree with one of the posts above, if they had chosen my team perhaps we'd have lost by now!
Complain about this comment
Should read we've gifted South Africa ten wickets, I subsequently added Ambrose's 1st innings dismissal but didn't then amend the quoted figure (doh!)
Complain about this comment
Comment 159 : benjibeano
Henman/Nadal
I think you would be right to find fault with Henman if his purpose in saying what he did was no more than him trying to big himself up, and stroke his own ego. But, with respect, I think this is a creation of your own (young?) imagination. I know that there’s a much stronger feeling these days that everyone’s out principally for themselves and, as a corollary to this, such self-focus is accepted as being a Good Thing much more than it used to be.
But you’ld do well to understand that not everyone subscribes to this outlook. There are people out there who make observations and judgments, criticisms if you like, not for any selfish motive at all, but because they’re trying to help the person they are criticising to become better. I think you will find that if Henman’s suggesting that Nadal should look to serve and volley more, this is because he believes that Nadal would become a better player by doing so. Not because he’s trying to belittle in any way what Nadal is doing at the moment – or, indeed, to glorify his own type of play by suggesting it’s superior to Nadal’s basic game. I think Henman’s right, and that Nadal has the opportunity to develop his grass-court game to the level where he is as dominant and unbeatable on grass as he is on clay. I also think that Nadal will view this as constructive advice, rather than as the carping of a former hero failing to come to terms with his reduced status in the world. To be honest, Nadal would never have got to where he has if he’d worked on the basis that every piece of advice he was given had an ulterior motive.
Fear and KP’s talent
I think what’s not generally realised is that there’s a two-pronged approach to developing talent and that this requires two distinct approaches. The obvious one is nurturing strengths - teaching sound techniques and mental attitudes, and practising these over and over again until they become the natural and instinctive way in which the individual approaches his sport. This process will have the welcome by-product of eradicating a lot of weaknesses. By taking strengths, and making them what the “auto-pilot” always searches for, there are going to be fewer and fewer instances where the person finds himself having to compete at a disadvantage.
But honing someone’s strengths does not remove all his weaknesses, and there comes a time in talent development where it becomes more productive to start focusing on eradicating weaknesses rather than developing strengths. This requires a very different outlook from both coach and performer, because it involves recognising that some things are bad, and working in an environment where it is more difficult to use success as the stimulant to help you keep going. There’s also a risk involved, because the eradication of the residual weaknesses cannot be done merely by strapping something on to the existing auto-pilot. It involves taking something that’s already in the programming, and modifying it to remove the glitch without completely messing up the main function of this part of the program.
Scary! Too scary for us in this country more often than not. What we’d rather do is create a fiction to live behind, and this fiction is that it’s impossible to eradicate glitches without also messing up the main program.
My thought is that the fundamental reason for this timidity is not our natural caution, but is the result of us not doing Part 1 of the talent development process very well. We don’t teach strength-development as well as some other cultures do, and as a result we don’t have as much potential coming through. We become very protective of what we do get, because we are not too sure where the next one’s coming from. As a result it becomes far too risky to put our latest talent through the weakness eradication process, and so we never create anyone who reaches the pinnacle of their craft.
Our treatment of Kevin Pietersen is absolutely consistent with this approach. He’s glorified for what he’s good at, and excused for those weaknesses that he’s failed to come to grips with. The true test of his success is not to measure his performances against those of lesser men, but against the par standard for someone with his level of talent and ability. Yesterday, by this standard, he came up short.
Complain about this comment
I hope Pietersen will not 'learn' from the way he got out. It might inhibit him throughout his next innings.
Complain about this comment
Think this is rather harsh on Pietersen, lets put it in context, one bad shot that cost him his wicket....what was nothing said of Vaughns poor drive, Cooks terrible pull or perhaps the worst of the lot Bells....No nothing is mentioned purely because KP was taking it to the opposition playing shot after shot that helped Colly gain in confidence. Without this 94 and his partnership with Colly England would really be in the mire.
I say well batted KP and please dont change things.
Complain about this comment
These comments about Pietersen's .."moment of madness".. are perfect examples of double-standard media reporting. You only have to listen to "Aggers" comment live on Radio 4 Long-Wave yesterday when Collingwood went to his hunderd by hitting a 6. He said..."that's the way to go to a hundred".. There was no mention either on SKY TV about Collingwood's "madness" at hitting a 6 to get to his hundred, as Atherton did when Pitersen got out. Pietersen plays that way and averages well over 50 in doing so. Without his innings yesterday England would have been in a mess so get off his back. Undermining his skill in this way could well affect the way he plays. He just executed the shot poorly and that is all it was. GET OFF his back - he is superbly talented and the public enjoy seeing someone of his talent play this way. Just enjoy the spectable of the way he plays and allow him the occasional (and it is occasional!) bad shot/judgement call.
Complain about this comment
Great stuff from Pieterson, an exhilerating 94 and he deserves credit for helping us get back in the game.
He will be disappointed how he got out, and won't need anybody to tell him. He certainly shouldn't be dressed down, or told to reign it in. Its this sort of thinking that brings paralysis analysis to English cricketers.
Flintoff was a much better batsman when he wasn't over coached, and wasn't expected to reign it in. We messed his game up, lets not do the same to Pieterson.
Lets face it, we could all pick Pietersons technique to pieces, but crickets not about technique its about getting runs and taking wickets.
In truth we should be talking more about Vaughan, Bell etc. Talented batsman who don't seem to have the shot selection or temperament to consistently score runs.
We talk about Vaughans position being safe for now. What is certain is Vaughan won't be able to take Pieterson aside and give him a talking to whilst he himself only averages something like 25!
Complain about this comment
With all the praise and criticism passing to and fro I think its wise to step back and ask "why do we all bother about this so much?" The answer is of course that everyone on this planet needs some form of entertainment to sharpen up our lives. Cricket, at its basic level, is just a form of entertainment that appeals to a fairly wide audience across the globe. Indeed we are willing to pay money to watch it and then read about it. Journalists (JA, CMJ, VM) make a living from this money. I doubt if they would last long if they made bland statements which nobody could disagree with. Their job is to get us to react... they need a hook. JA's hook is to criticise KP. Perfect, he's on to a winner there as can be witnessed above.
My view is "would we really want everyone playing cricket to do the most sensible thing all the time? Play the percentages? Would that be entertainment...even if our team won every time?" That would be a bit like watching Shumacher in his racing car...
No, cricket needs the ebb and flow, the sudden reversals, the predictability that can be shattered at any moment by a thrilling passage of play. That's what we pay for. How fantastic that PC has gone from zero to hero in the space of an afternoon. The fact that he possibly shouldn't have been allowed the chance only increases the level of interest.. it adds value to the game.
If we win this match it will be in no small way due to KP and, if we lose it, you could say the same. Either way cricket needs him to do what he does and so do the journalists.
Complain about this comment
Comment 191 : paidster
Yes, this is about right to me.
I think the reason so many people are upset with Jonathan Agnew's comments is that they see them as a personal attack on Pietersen, and on modern attitudes, delivered with no motive other than to make Agnew feel good.
To me, it's symptomatic of a collapsing society that the default understanding of so many young people is that no one ever does anything impersonally. No one can possibly be doing or suggesting anything that might have as a motive the benefit of someone else, or of society in general, because the only motive that any human being can possibly have is the benefit of self, family or tribe.
O brave new world that has such people in it.
Complain about this comment
Comment 209: I agree. The discussion that critisises Pieterson is not aimed at putting him down, he is without doubt our most gifted batsmen, it simply reflects our hope of him fulfilling his fantastic talent.
Comment 203 sums this up and is worth repeating ..."The true test of his success is not to measure his performances against those of lesser men, but against the par standard for someone with his level of talent and ability."
So who should Pieterson be compared to today and from the past? Viv Richards?
Complain about this comment
But is that not the point? Pietersen has been in this position many times before, and doesn't seem to learn. There is absolutely no denying he is the best 'English' batsman we have, but how can he acheive this 'legendary' status he so desperately seeks if he cannot put his team first? and make no mistake, he is nowhere near becoming a legend yet
Yes it was a (yet another) great knock, but can you honestly see great batsman throwing away their wicket like he did? The South Africans are only doing what almost every other team do when they play Pietersen, massage his ego to a point where they know what is about to happen and then bang, out. He obviously has the ability to go on and make double/triple hundreds, but until he can get over his mantra of "KP first - Team Second" this isn't going to happen
It is not about playing more defensively, he is fantastic at what he does, but how many of his knocks could be so much more if he just knew when to reel it in. Look at his reaction yesterday, he knows that he is doing the same thing time after time. This is Test Cricket, and there were 2 and a half days left to bat, why the rush to get to his hundred?
Yes the top order let us down, but again, that is not the point, we could still have Pietersen and Collingwood out there, and put ourselves in a very strong position somewhere throughout the 4th day to bowl the South Africans out.
It is fantastic we have such players in our side, but if everyone would stop drooling over him for 2 minutes and take a step back, think what he could acheive?
All that said, Come on England, get us a lead of 300+ and lets level the series
Complain about this comment
I was watching the test yesterday and during Pitersen's innings a question sprang to mind. It is about Pietersen's left-handed shot. When he switches hands to play the shot he becomes a 'left-hander', does this mean that he also leaves himself open to be given out LBW if he misses the ball even though the ball may have pitched outside what had originally been his leg stump? (obviously taking into account all the other requirements for being given out LBW). It seems to me unfair on the bowling side that a batsman can change the way he plays (right to left-handed) and also avoid being given out LBW. If this question has already been answered please ignore.
Complain about this comment
Sorry Aggers but this is situational bias of the most staggering sort.
Pietersen was wrong to go for the shot he did, it wasnt on but he backed his talent to make it.
Collinwood was also wrong to o for the shot he did to get his 100. There was no reason or need for him to pointlessly risk his wicket by taking a shot like that.
Both men succumbed to the pressure, both men deserve equal flak for it, the only difference is that one got away with it.
If your going to criticise then do it fairly instead of trying to create divisions.
Complain about this comment
WRONG ABOUT KP THERE AGGERS YEAH?
LOOK AT THESE MESSAGES AND YOU'LL SEE WHY!
OH FOR 50+ MORE RUNS FROM ENGLAND TOMORROW..........
Complain about this comment
There still seems to be a feeling amongst the English cricket establishment that scoring eight runs in two hours and then being out playing a defensive shot is somehow more honourable than scoring 94 and being out trying to hit a six. Rather vulgar, they think. Interesting that Agnew, who is a great commentator but was a very minor test match bowler, should have this view, as did Derek Pringle in today's press - another player who should never have got further than the Yorkshire second team.
They long for the days when mediocrity and losing were acceptable, and a player was judged by which school he went to and how good his table manners were.
Complain about this comment
6. At 8:05pm on 01 Aug 2008, andyNCCC wrote:
good old collingwood, i've stuck with him whilst all you lot called for him to be dropped and my faith was repaid!
all that's left to say is i told you so!
colly's a great batsmen and as they say form is temporary, class is permanent, good on ya!
well played KP too, but i see you become yet another english player to get slated by this so called expert. the fact is he scored important runs for us, and a mere six runs he didn't get shouldn't matter that much.
the england teams fine the way it is, just find a way to get broad in, i dunno, make collingwood the wicketkeeper??
________________________________
I thought that i recognised you, on the 30th july you called for Collingwood to be sacked. You bandwagon jumping hypocritical (profanity).
Complain about this comment
"well played KP too, but i see you become yet another english player to get slated by this so called expert. the fact is he scored important runs for us, and a mere six runs he didn't get shouldn't matter that much."
Its not the mere six runs he didnt get, its the very important 60+ very important more runs we needed from him that matters so much.
Bottom line in a situation like that a batsman doesnt give his wicket away, and thats exactly what he did, all the south africans had to do was wait for KP to engineer his own downfall.
Complain about this comment
I've been beaten to the drop by a number of lucid contributors but still feel the need to weigh in.
KP delivered 94 invaluable runs, knew he'd played a daft shot and was annoyed. He dug England out of a deep pit and should be highly praised for that - not chastened for a single shot after putting on, I'll say it again, 94 runs.
Now for the incredulity - KP for captain - did I read that right. You have got to be kidding. Vaughan is a good captain and certainly not the first to be lacking in the runs dept. Captaincy is not about hitting a ton of runs or getting 5 for 20. It's selection, motivation, direction, support and dominating the opponents through great tactics on the field. Sticking in the odd big innings or wickets is a bonus. Vaughan has demonstrated good leadership skills on and off the field and should be judged on that primarily. Commentary about the selection of Pattinson was therefore on the nose for my money.
Perhaps Vaughan should drop himself down the order - put KP in at 3 - give him the responsibility and help him live up to it.
Complain about this comment
Well, in view of all these comments - pro and con - one thing is certain: TMS should be a good listen today! :-)
Complain about this comment
So Vaughan is a "fluent failure" for going in to knock the ball around and getting out 17 runs later. This is the captain remember - "lead by example".... Then KP comes in, also to knock the ball around, which he does gloriously for 94 runs. And Agnew spends blog-inches criticising Pieterson but says Vaughan can't be dropped ! Yes, Aggers, there are alternatives: Strauss or on Friday's evidence a player of real character named Collingwood. This isn't new from Vaughan, he has made one good knock per Test season for the past several years. Time to raise the finger....
Complain about this comment
Our Finest Cricket Scribes have surpassed themselves with
sulphur-laden column-inches about England’s first innings. Only a
cricketer’s head on a pikestaff – preferably a captain - can sooth their
troubled minds.
Is it worth making a resume of yesterday’s game? [It is a game, by the
way]. Strauss out in a miserable way; Vaughan caught, but did he touch
it? Pietersen not out caught - he certainly didn’t touch it. Collingwood
out of form; tail without it's wag; Flintoff stranded = 231 all out.
Recall Mike Brearley's record in Test cricket at a batsman – no
comparison with the talent of Vaughan – no Test century for J M Brearley
OBE.
He kept his place because simply he was an outstanding captain. His
man-management skills (he was once described by Rodney Hogg as having "a
degree in people") drew the very best from the players in his team,
although he was fortunate to be able to call on the services of Bob
Willis, David Gower and Ian Botham at their peak. Michael Vaughan is an
outstandingly succesful captain. A sad little list does not justify the
venom of yesterday.
This morning, what a contrast; Collingwood for PM. Pres of EU......? Both?
John Hyde
Frome
Complain about this comment
Love to know who people would replace KP with - someone who can score as many runs with as good as an average. You'll struggle.
Complain about this comment
Comment 215 : Monkeymeeky
WARNING
This isn't an attack on you. It's a comment on what you wrote.
Honour/Vulgarity
You could, if you chose to, look at the criticisms of Pietersen's mode of dismissal as an attempt to help him to develop his already prodigious talent into something that's even more influential in the world of cricket.
Or you could, as you seem to have chosen to, regard it as the reaction of a bunch of jealous old farts intent only on bringing a Flash Harry down to size.
Agnew/Pringle
You could take the view that the quality of someone's observation and advice is directly proportionate to the quality of their ability to perform in that arena.
Or you could recognise that there are no actual grounds for supposing this to be true, and that ad hominem attacks are always more out of fear that the observer is right than belief that he is wrong.
Mediocrity
You could continue to believe that the critics are primarily promoting mediocrity because they see in it a comfort zone in which their own achievements are more favourably looked upon.
Or you could ask yourself whether in fact the reality is that it is you that is seeking the comfort zone of ambient mediocrity, and that your hostility towards the critics is a reaction to them seeking to move away from it.
Complain about this comment
People keep on harking on about how Pieterson's batting wins us enough test matches to justify his continued insistence to play his own game no matter what the situation. Can someone please point out to me these numerous tests that his batting has won for us? Surely if they were that numerous we'd be doing a wee bit better in test cricket at the moment?
Complain about this comment
can england draw or win this test? that's more important than any comment about pieterson's demise.
I think england need at least 60 more runs, made very slowly or 100 more made quckly.
with two days left and a batting side the quality of south africa, there's still a long way to go and time is on their side.
Complain about this comment
at #213, collingwood always hits over the top
when he reaches a milestone, have you never noticed that?
the difference is he had the common sense to attack a flighted delivery, one which he was able to get to the pitch of the ball; pietersen just took a swipe at a ball that was completely wrong for the shot he was going for.
shot selection is king in test match batting, and pietersen got it totally wrong on that occasion.
nobody denies that pietersen is our best batter. agnew and a few others are right to make the point that sometimes his decision making is poor. pietersens ambition and aggression is to be admired but there are times, as the best batter in the side, that he needs to take more responsibility and he needs to recognise this.
Complain about this comment
andymole.
I can't be bothered to troll for stats, but one does stand out in my mind and probably the biggest...
The Ashes 2005!!
Last day of the 5th test...
I think I can safely say that if he had not played his own game that day we wouldn't of won the Ashes.
Complain about this comment
Why is it that we laud players to the rafters who have been rubbish with the bat for week upon week when they come up with one good score?
One swallow doesn't make a summer. One good score doesn't make up for a summer of Colly's failures.
It was a gutsy performance, but his batting has been terrible up until yesterday. Perspective please!
Complain about this comment
Aggers,
Mistake me if I am wrong, but is not Cricket a form of entertainment, did you notice the atmosphere that was created in the crowd when KP and Colly were in Partnership, it was pure entertainment, the crowd were really boisterous, enjoying the spectacle. So Kp got out on 94, he and Colly had led an England comeback, wether it was enough shall remain to be seen.
For these reasons, lets praise KP, and encourage him into more performances equal to yesterdays entertainment.
Complain about this comment
it was a great innings but this has to happen more consistently. i personally would like to see new leadership from outside the "team england" comfort zone so my suggestion is rob key in for vaughn as skipper. the team needs some new ideas and fresh drive and as key is the leading skipper in county cricket and a capable player lets give him a go. as for vaughan he simply doesn't play enough. does he bat many more than 10 / 12 times a season?? how can he ever get into form like that
Complain about this comment
Pietersen let himself down, not the team.
His 94 may help to win the match.
The frustrating thing from a supporters point of view is that it's falling to him to save the game on too many occasions.
Look elsewhere for a scapegoat, if you must.
Complain about this comment
Can somebody tell me if Pietersen was out or not ? De Villiers jumps, takes the catch and stumbles, he puts his left hand down to try and maintain balance, and then slams his right hand down ball first. He was not in complete control....does this count as a fair catch ?
Complain about this comment
By the way, how anyone can criticise Pietersen for scoring 94 runs is beyond me.
It's like criticising John the Baptist for not being Jesus.
Complain about this comment
Congratulations to Paul Collingwood and keep it up. I'm yet another eating humble pie this morning. I'd love to have a second helping this morning with Ambrosia for custard! Come on England!
That said, the selections for this test (and the last one) still don't inspire confidence in the selectors for the future, when taking other decisions. Every bit of evidence said that Colly shouldn't have been in the squad of 13 let alone the team. That was backed up by the evidence from the first innings that he was still well out of form, so the selectors can't claim that net practice or whatever had revealed the opposite. Colly has come good and cemented his place back in the team, but the selectors shouldn't expect to be so lucky the next time they select a player out of form.
Complain about this comment
Taking this game in isolation Pietersen and Collingwood (and even Tim Ambrose for occupying the crease and allowing 'Colly' to make the headlines) deserve great credit.
When Pietersen came to the crease England were all but dead and buried. By the time Pietersen left the crease they had a platform from which to give themselves a fighting chance of an unlikely victory.
Yes the manner of his dismissal was frustrating (not least for the player) but I wouldn't for a second drop Pietersen. His ego that is so often lambasted by commentators and journalists is what makes Pietersen the player he is.
Collingwood played a great innings to ensure that the Pietersens 'knock' was not in vain. He has not however answered his critics.
I don't think anyone doubts that the player has the necessary attributes to be a test cricketer. The problem is how consistently these attributes are applied. His hundred yesterday has reminded us of what he can produce. To fully silence his critics his average from this point forward needs to be averaging up in the 40s.
My comments about Collingwood could apply to a number of England players but the focus is currently on him and therefore so is my post.
Complain about this comment
Why is it Aggers that you and others (e.g. Derek Pringle) have such a negative attitiude to KP. Whether he scores 0, 49, 94 or 200+ you always major on his dismissl and overlook his contribution,which is rarely insignificant. I haven't checked but I suspect his is always one of our top 3 batsman in a series. Players like KP do not come along that often and I think we should enjoy him whilst he is here and accept that the way he plays will inevitably result in frustrating dismissals from time to time. England are certainly better than without him!
Complain about this comment
Well, Aggers - you've certainly stirred up a hornet's nest with this blog!!
I don't agree with you over KP - that's the way he bats, it's brilliant when it comes off, infuriating when it doesn't - you have to accept it as part of the package.
As for Colly, what an innings, especially under the pressure on him. Caused, Aggers, by people like you who have looked for a scapegoat every time someone in the team has not performed for a couple of games in a row.
This summer, Vaughan, Strauss, Bell and now Collingwood have now proved their mettle in Tests when the media have told them their place was on the line. Perhaps it's time to give them the opportunity to prove their worth without having to look over their shoulders before every innings!!
Complain about this comment
I agree with super_reds27. Particurarly about Bell. What a poor poor cricket shot, at that point he was getting settled at the crease.
Yet Pietersen who gets us out of trouble, time and time again gets all the criticism, you only have to look at his average to realise how crucial he is to us. Perhaps we should start celebrating the fact that we have him as a cricketer in this country. Yeah ok he might be a bit too positive sometimes but thats his game, so thanks Mr Kevin Pietersen for the effort you put in.
As for Paul Collingwood, what a mentally tough guy, nerves of steel, a big congratulations too, I hope it leads you to recover your form, you deserve it
Complain about this comment
Sorry, pollyowls, but yet again, batsmen seem to get preferential treatment...
If you get umpteen opportunities to bat, chances are now and then you are going to get a few runs. Does that mean we should wait ten or fifteen tests to see one decent score?
On the other hand bowlers such as Jimmy Anderson are pilloried for 'lack of consistency' and others like Hoggard are dropped after one bad performance.
Consistency?
Complain about this comment
What we need is a team where more than one member puts in a perfomance, all too often there is only one member of the team that shines.
Complain about this comment
"you have to accept it as part of the package."
Why? It's shouldn't be a zero-sum game. The ability to change tempo and bat according to the state of the game is what separates the greats from the merely good. It's a strawman to argue that putting Pietersen on an ego diet turns him into Boycott, and it's hardly a defence of his abilities to suggest that he can't play any other way.
Now, there's a decent argument that flamboyance and occasional recklessness is okay at 5 or 6 if you have solid performers further up the batting order. Botham had that role in his prime, and Flintoff has done the same more recently. But the fact that KP's in at 4 shows both the deficiencies at the top of the order, and KP's limitations when a *Test* innings is required of him.
Anyway, any chance of putting up audio from Friday's lunch conversation with Mark Steel? Hilarious.
Complain about this comment
ExcellenceFirst (#153): I think we're at cross-purposes here. My Henman / Nadal analogy was intended to make the following point: Henman, a fine player, might naturally advise Nadal to adopt the strategy which worked for him so well on grass, believing that this would help Nadal optimise his performance. However, this advice is dubious because it does not reflect the difference in the two players' attributes and abilities.
So, who is going to teach KP how to optimise his performance? The fear of coaching him stems not from some ultra-liberal idea that this is somehow oppressive, and that we're trying to reshape his style against his will. It stems from the fact that there's no-one (I can think of) who can give him the benefit of a similar experience. Who plays those shots that well under those circumstances?
I admire Stewart like I do Henman, but his limitations are similarly evident.
Complain about this comment
in defence of pietersen, at least he made 94 before getting out to an irresponsible stroke.
bell is the one that annoys me, he looks a class player every time he goes to the wicket and ALWAYS falls to a terrible stroke, ALWAYS makes a good 20 or 30 before getting out to a stupid shot.
pietersen at least gave us a chance to turn this match around
Complain about this comment
i am fed up with the t,m,s teams s nide comments about kevin peterson surely if he wasn't in the team we would be watching another loss.please give credit where credit is due.have a go at the other useless batsmen by all means.annebut
Complain about this comment
Pietersen's biggest mistake was hitting the runs that took him to 94. Had he been on 93 he would not have played that shot.
Nobody would criticise him for playing extravagant shots when the delivery suits him, but he should not attempt them simply when the score suits him.
It's a symptom of over-confidence and carelessness.
Complain about this comment
I don't know what everybody's on about over MV. He's not going to last long anyway, 'cos his halo's bound to slip and choke him before the Ashes come round again!!
BTW, I see the woodwork's full up again, with all the anti-Collingwoods scuttling back in there!
Complain about this comment
What a pathetic article by apparently a cricket fan. KP dug England out of a hole when he came in as yet again M Vaughan had failed. Yes the shot was poor but all this wise after the event analysis is rubbish. If KP had made any sort of connection he would have cleared the fielder, PC did exactly the same shot so he was just as culpable as KP the only difference is that he got away with it.
JA you are a complete buffoon, never were much of a cricketer and just looks to me like sheer jealousy your critism of KP.
I hope you are equally harsh on James Anderson who for the team needed to stay in but in fact thought he was I T Botham. I fear you wont be and I think we all know why.
Sad little man
Complain about this comment
Aggers there must be some ulterior motive for your comments about KP?
The guy is the best batsman in the team and his 94 helped turn the game. If he is required to score 100 every innings then there is something wrong with the rest of the team. And we all know there is.
Well done Collingwood.
However the wicketkeeper needs to be replaced. If we are going to have a keeper batting at 7 or 8 (if broad is playing) then we might as well pick CMW Read who is the best keeper and with less pressure on him to score runs he might start doing well (though he is a walking lbw candidate).
Apart from flintoff our seamers are not penetrative enough with the ball. Anderson and Sidebottom need to do more if they are to stay in the team long-term.
Complain about this comment
Once again Kevin Pietersen has let England down. On this occasion it will probably lead to us losing the match and the series. Once again he has failed to realise that he had the chance to play an innings of real substance and influence a match. He has played an irresponsible stroke at the very crux of an innings when a cool head were called for. This has lead to the downfall of Flintoff who, at that stage of the day’s play, should never been called upon to bat. Again people will point to the fact that Pietersen has scored 94 at a time when England were in crisis and rescued the match. Not so. He has had chance to rescue the match and perhaps post a match influencing innings but has failed to do so. People will point to his test record and it is on the better side of good., but it should be realised that a lot of his runs were scored in a failing cause. Usually because his was the cause of the failure, by not turning a potentially advantageous position into one of real dominance. He is a failure.
Complain about this comment
Well done Paul Collingwood what a fantastic innings.Colly is one tough cookie.My cricket hero is Steve Waugh and in Colly England have that sort of character.Colly may not have the skills of someone like Ramprakash but has much more mental toughness and that should be a lesson to any would be young test player.
Complain about this comment
Our batsmen may not be the best in the world, but they are the best ones available to us. There is no one on the county circuit who yet comes close to them: Bopara maybe one day, but the fact that people are suggesting Key reflects quite how thin the talent pool is. The only selection problem we should have is which of the 6 batsmen to drop to allow for a wicketkeeper-batsman at 6 (unfortunately, Prior is the best candidate for the time being) to allow for Flintoff at 7 and Broad (who must play) at 8. And it's MV who should make room, with Bell moving to 3 and Strauss taking over as captain. I'm just amazed by how much criticism is being thrown at our players, when the media should really be putting the spotlight on Moores and Flowers. This team has been in freefall since Moores took over: are we capable of beating anyone other than the Windies and a young NZ team?
Complain about this comment
Comment 242 : stwl2006
Thanks for your comment.
Henman/Nadal
I'd suggest that your point rather depends on the assumption that it's not possible to look at the playing of tennis in the abstract, and that it's only possible to give advice on the basis of "this is what I did, and what I found most successful". So, on this basis the only value of professional coaches is they might come up with a pearl of wisdom about something that helped them when they were playing, which just coincidentally also happens to be something that the pupil is able to relate to and develop advantageously into his own game.
I think this is far too limited a view of human ability to impart knowledge. I'm not disputing that there's a great deal of amateur advice that is absolutely useless to a professional sportsman, chiefly because it grossly oversimplifies what it takes to compete at the highest level. I'm sure, also, that even among the professionals there's a lot of advice that fails to recognise that what suits one person doesn't necessarily suit another. But, having said that, I think it's quite wrong to suggest that we are all so different that no one person can identify anything that can be of general benefit to the competitors in a particular sport. Or that in designing the bespoke contents of a person's competitive armoury the person himself is unquestionably more capable of optimising this than is anyone else.
I think this needs to be borne in mind about Pietersen, too. If we accept your proposition then there is no one qualified enough to be able to suggest anything that would help improve Pietersen's performance, if adopted. No one other than he himself is capable of coming up with a strategy that is more successful than the one he is currently employing. I'm afraid I can't believe that this is how it is.
Complain about this comment
I don't think that Aggers said anything negative about the rest of KP's make up other than KP's match situation awareness. I love watching KP play but always in the back of my mind I feel that there is some needless showboating just around the corner that will cost him his wicket. If England had had a lead of 350 and KP had got out playing that shot (regardless of him being on 94 or 24, because that is what it is all about it is a team game!) I wouldn't have cared a jot. But first and foremost you have to make a game safe. I thought that KP finally got the message when he saved us at the Oval, but it seems not to be the case.
I don't want him dropped, I don't want him to stop playing shots. I would merely ask him to put team before personal glory and learn when to cut loose.
Complain about this comment
Please lay off KP everyone.
If anyone deserves to be criticised for their batting it is Jimmy Anderson. You have less than half a second to react to balls bowled to you, so mistakes from batsmen can be excused. However, you can't excuse Anderson's whole approach to his batting today.
He had a full hour to watch Sidebottom play within himself in an excellent supporting role to Colly, when Sidebottom only got out when he started to get carried away. Instead, JA comes out and tries to play shots off every ball bowled at him, instead of just staying there and letting Colly get on with it. It was STUPID cricket, and the fall of Anderson's wicket was really predictable. In effect he got Colly out too, as Colly had afterwards to try and contrive shots in the knowledge that Monty wasn't going to hang around for long.
Complain about this comment
Failure by the top order batsmen puts undue pressure on the middle and later batsmen. If any two of AS, AC, MV and IB had done their jobs properly, the game wouldn't have been so dependent on Pietersen and Collingwood.
It's about time you and your TMS colleagues directed the full force of your criticism at those who repeatedly fail to establish control, rather than the more entertaining quick hitters.
Complain about this comment
Excellencefirst
I certainly did interpret the attacks on KP as a bunch of jealous old farts trying to bring a Flash Harry down to size. Very perceptive of you. I cannot believe that anyone really thinks the criticism of KP was intended as friendly advice to make him a better player. It was pure vindictiveness. Otherwise Agnew, for instance, would have devoted some of his blog to telling England's other non-achieving batsmen how to do their jobs, rather than focusing on one of the few who actually did.
The comments that I made about the relative talents of Agnew and Pringle should not be interpreted as me saying that those without talent should not be able to criticise those with talent. Otherwise I wouldn't be on here giving my opinion. The point I'm making is that in the late Eighties and Nineties in particular England lagged behind other Test playing countries in matters such as fitness, tactics, fielding and general aggression. This is the system that spawned the likes of Pringle and Agnew, where mediocrity was accepted and the other countries were considered a bit unsporting and, yes, vulgar, for taking winning so seriously. And, of course, these rugged old pros will be suspicious of natural talent, because they didn't have much. They have the right to express any opinion they desire, but I can't help feel it will be coloured by their own pasts and experiences, in most cases negatively.
Complain about this comment
I would have thought that Vaughan failed to complete the rescue operation whereas Pietersen nearly achieved it.
Complain about this comment
waltongk WOW - how strange your mind works.
I Quote
"KP is a failure"
"lead to the downfall of Flintoff"
So fintoff cant see out the day but ambrose can and thats KP fault HHOOWW????
If KP is a failure what does that make all the other England batsmen seeing as KP is the top runscorer.
LMAO at your logic guess you should join JA in the corner with your D hat :)
Complain about this comment
dear god! what would you all rather. some limp attempt at defending with no interest in scoring runs and going out for less than 20, or some entertaining attack minded batting and scoring 94? i know what i would and in your hearts you all know that without KP AND Colly's runs England wouldn't stand a chance. go ahead and deduct 94 from England after this test finnishes and then have a look at the score.
Complain about this comment
I've listening to more TMS this test match than I have for quite a while and I've noticed an increase in partiality on the part of some of the commentary team (particularly Alec Stewart). It's the 50th anniversary of TMS and it saddens me to hear this apparent departure from what I took for its founding principles of balance and impartiality. Is this the result of a new post-Baxter directive or a new laissez-faire attitude?
Complain about this comment
I've been listening to more TMS this test match than I have for quite a while and I've noticed an increase in partiality on the part of some of the commentary team (particularly Alec Stewart). It's the 50th anniversary of TMS and it saddens me to hear this apparent departure from what I took for its founding principles of balance and impartiality. Is this the result of a new post-Baxter directive or a new laissez-faire attitude?
Complain about this comment
I don't think KP was playing for himself rather than the team. I think that he just overestimated his considerable talent when he got out. The SAF managed to get to him and provoked him ito a loose shot but at least he had contributed 94 runs before getting out.
Complain about this comment
What is wrong with Pietersen? Of course he cant possibly be captain, he only scored 94, unlike the great leader who got a golden duck and less than twenty. Obviously Vaughn has to be kept on and Pietersen can be the scapegoat for the defeat. Are you bonkers?
Complain about this comment
I really don't think that Alec Stewart is the right man for the job on TMS. He has direct interests in Collingwood and others, so can't be honest about them even if he wanted to be.
There's definitely a possibility now to try some new (hopefully young) players, as it is obvious that we need to phase out some of the old guard in building a team for the future, and we need to develop a new captain that can bat (See how useful Mr. Smith was for SA today).
We could probably also do with buying some proper sightscreens for Edgbaston. What is the point in having one if it doesn't cover the bowlers arm?
It is a bit of a crazy game really - if Smith had rightly been given out on 85 they would have struggled.
A great test match, pity that the end fizzled, we just didn't have any fire power left.
Complain about this comment
Comment 256 : monkeyMeeky
Thanks for this.
"I cannot believe that anyone really thinks the criticism of KP was intended as friendly advice to make him a better player"
Well I think there will be quite a lot of people who think this, actually. However, I'm sure that there are also many people who think the same as you. Comment 209 is my take on why there is such a polarisation of opinion. It's a fairly recent development to regard humanity as being only capable of self-focused motive, so there are plenty of people over 35 (and some under 35, no doubt) who are prepared at least to accept the possibility that the motives of Agnew, Pringle etc. are outwardly directed.
"Otherwise Agnew, for instance, would have devoted some of his blog to telling England's other non-achieving batsmen how to do their jobs, rather than focusing on one of the few who actually did."
I take your point here, but I think you have to consider that Agnew's concern about Pietersen's thought-pattern on 94 is wider than just the effect it had on the result of this match. Like it or not, Kevin Pietersen has become a cult hero, bigger than any other member of the team, and there are thousands of kids out there who will try to emulate everything that he does.
I'm not one of those people who thinks that a role model has a duty to behave in a socially conforming way that may not be to his liking. But I do think that what Pietersen does is going to be more of an influence on the future of England cricket than is, say, what Andrew Strauss does, and that it is therefore more important to invest time trying to get Pietersen to recognise the more constructive approach than it is to do the same with Strauss. Even if the perceived weaknesses are broadly similar in character.
I suspect that what may appear to be unfair singling out of Pietersen for criticism has been doen for this very reason. And I'm also sure that there is nothing that Agnew would like more than for Pietersen to develop into someone who is the outstanding candidate to be the next England captain.
"The point I'm making is that in the late Eighties and Nineties in particular England lagged behind other Test playing countries in matters such as fitness, tactics, fielding and general aggression. This is the system that spawned the likes of Pringle and Agnew, where mediocrity was accepted and the other countries were considered a bit unsporting and, yes, vulgar, for taking winning so seriously."
Again. I take your point. I've made it clear elsewhere on this blog that I believe the fundamental weakness in English sport, generally, is that we don't within our culture have a very good way of teaching youngsters how to develop their strengths, and that, because our success-stories are so few and far between, we don't have the confidence to take the undoubted risks that there are in progressing learned-strength talent through to becoming world-class performers.
But, in having a go at Agnew and Pringle, and presumably Atherton, who wrote much the same thing in today's Times, I think that you direct your fire at the wrong people. These guys at least care about the future of English cricket.
Complain about this comment
What boggles my mind is that everyone is starting to praise Collingwood on his century, which is fine, however surely the law of averages will state that after all the chances Collingwood has had, he would inevitably get a big score.
Its this mind set which england need to get rid off and if someone is not pulling their weight, then they should go. This "clique" in the team must go!
Congrats to SA for winning the series, by far the better team and showed how to bat out matches, maybe england can learn.
Complain about this comment
I can't believe that people are pushing for KP to be the next England captain. His irresponsibility at the crease knows no bounds. I'm sorry but his two switch hits or whatever you want to call them against Harris were bang out of order. We were trying to win a test match for gods sake not entertain the crowd, not that I've got anything against crowds! I,m normally in them. As for the shot he got out to; well, need I say more. Coming to Paul Collingwoods' resignation; It smells like he jumped before he was pushed over the brink to accommodate KP. I know Colly personally; both of us coming from the Tyneside Senior League when we were youngsters; and I know how much the captaincy of England means to him. This stinks of politics; KP as captain, the worst appointment since Ian Botham. (I suspect the great man himself would agree with this!) My vote would go to Rob Key for the test side, and Ed Joyce for the one day side. New brooms sweep clean!!!
Complain about this comment
agnew, agnew, agnew....gee man do u actually like cricket? why do u moan so much about exciting cricket? 20/20...peterson...bla bla bla...man, its a sport, ok? its not swiss finishing-school for gentleman and ladies, ok....sport, fun, interaction. please be happy mr agnew. u have a good job that many would give right-arm (slow-medium) for...please be lighter in your continual criticisms of those making cricket accessible and entertaining. thank u sir.
Complain about this comment
One good score from Collingwood does not make him a class batsman.
Complain about this comment
Q. Since Pietersen changes his hands on the bat in effecting his 'reverse sweep' what would the umpires decision be , were he to change his stance and grip, but then not play the shot, only to be struck on the pad?
Would he be a right hander padding up to a ball outside the leg stump, or in effect a left hander hit outside the line of off, but offering no stroke?
Complain about this comment
I read Agger's comments on Pietersen's dismissal with irritation. Some people seem to enjoy bashing KP because i suspect his brash unEnglish approach upsets the more traditionally minded. the fact is he scored more runs than most in the Edgbaston Test and England's failure can be more fairly laid at the door of Cook and Bell for their injudicious strokes..the more so because they were not on 94 at the time. But who would be a cricket pundit though after Agger's suggestion that by that one stroke KP had ended all hopes of the captaincy?
48 hours is a long time in cricket I guess.
Complain about this comment
Tomorrow morning our new South African born and bred Captain will lead England into the fourth Test. It therefore seems an appropriate moment to raise a relevant issue. Pietersen will be Captain of England not the UK, so why at all sports fixtures, cricket, rugby, socer, etc when England play do we have the UK anthem?
When England play Scotland at Rugby, Scotland have Flower of Scotland and England have...God Save the Queen-also the Scottish anthem as they are part of the UK.
Surely whenever England as opposed to Britain play any international sport there shoiuld be an English anthem.
I have no hard views on what it should be, perhaps the BBC can organise a national debate. PLEASE let the English have what the other parts of the UK have, our own English national Anthem.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS