Peerless Chanderpaul shows up lacklustre Windies
Following the aching void left by Brian Lara, the best batsman in West Indies cricket – by a long way – is Shivnarine Chanderpaul.
The Guyanese left-hander is not someone most would leave home to watch, so unorthodox is his approach to batsmanship.
But “Chanders” cherishes his wicket dearly – and that is one of the underlying reasons behind his 466 runs at an average of 148.66 in the Tests against England.
He never allows the bowlers to get to him – he just focuses on his game.
A few critics have suggested he should be more “involved” in the team’s management and progress.
I think that’s garbage. Even in team sports, the focus is on individual achievements.
That is why he practices so incessantly, whenever available.
If the rest of the batsmen were as singularly-minded as Shiv, then the team would do much better. It’s not all about style and aesthetics.
Chanders’ scores in the Tests were: 74, 50, 116 not out, 136 not out and 70.
He was injured for the Headingley Test – when West Indies slumped to their heaviest defeat ever.
Without Shiv’s considerable assistance, one really wonders what could have happened to the tourists in the other matches.
West Indies’ cricket was generally as poor as ever.
I had hoped, from my first article for this tour, for something different.
The start of the tour promised so much, only for that hope to die a despondent death.
Only twice, at Lords and at Old Trafford, were there glimmers of something positive.
The administration, team coaches and players must all take the blame for this debacle. Not even the English supporters enjoyed the mauling.
A spinner should have been included in the squad – just look at Monty Panesar’s success.
Even a spinner of lesser quality than Monty would have taken wickets towards the end of the Tests.
Injuries may have contributed, but I doubt anyone would have expected West Indies to become the cricket joke of the summer.
Both Chanderpaul and his Test captain, Daren Ganga, have suggested they will do better in the one-day series.
Here’s hoping.
In the World Cup, West Indies looked just ordinary, as did England.
But in the mean time, England have put their administrative house in order and have won the Tests 3-0.
Meanwhile, the replacement West Indies players for the one-day games - Lendl Simmonds, Dwayne Smith and Austin Richards - will not even arrive in time for the first one-day practice game.
Interestingly, Richards is preferred to the hard-hitting Kieron Pollard, who was seen as a “Brian Lara selection” when named in the World Cup squad.
West Indies are better suited for the shorter type of the game: two of the replacement batsmen - Simmons and Smith - can certainly be dynamic batsmen.
Chris Gayle will have a new challenge as the new one-day captain; he certainly needs runs too, with Ramnaresh Sarwan still injured.
Players like Dwayne Bravo, Runako Morton and Marlon Samuels must now come to the fore, and do their best to try to relieve Chanderpaul of all of his burdens.
No man is an island, not even Chanderpaul.
The bowling too could be OK, if not special.
If Darren Sammy and Bravo are fit, the all-rounder berths are covered – while Gayle and Samuels can also bowl their spin.
Fidel Edwards has gained some respect for his pace, and he will be one to watch.
Expectations are higher – let’s hope the production also improves.
Lets start with basics. The West Indies can not bat, with the exception of a couple. This means they have to be able to bowl out teams for less than 150. I dont see this happening against England in England.
Also, if you can not bat and bowl, you at least need to be able to field, to restrict the damage as much as poss. Dropped catches, boundaries between legs and just general lack of enthusiasm in the field will result in another hammering.
There is only one thing worse than being hammered in a one day game and that is being hammered by such a rubbish one day team as England.
I feel for anyone who is forced to watch this impending one day series. Personally I have some paint that is drying and it is a tossup between the two.
The worst thing about this is that Englands errors will not be highlighted against such opposition. India will be a completely different proposition.
Complain about this postThe West Indies have a great tradition of quiality pace bowling. What happend to Tino Best. He played in the series in 2004, and then got dropped. I thought he was seen as a better prospect than Edwards!
Complain about this postAre there no older Bats in the Windies, who might do better than the kids?
Dear Mr Croft,
Complain about this postWe currently have a young West Indian, Montston Hodge, playing for Lancaster for the season as an amateur in the Northern league as he holds a British passport. 'Monty' practices and trains hard every day and is currently displaying an ability for batting that is comparable with many of the established test players that we have seen in this league over the years. Having watched him dispatch Shane Harwood (Aussie 1 day team 90 mph bowler) all over the ground, we know he is certainly as good as many of the current players. My point is that there must be other players of similar talent but their attitude seems to change when they are selected 'nationally'. We constantly hear rumours of late nights and an arrogant attitude from many of the current players. Is it not this attitude that needs to change most with chanderpaul used as an example of what can be achieved?
I think Windies will be better suited to the one dayers than tests. To say, as Andrew Hicks does, that they 'cannot bat' is far too harsh. They were found out in the tests in terms of patience at the crease and willingness to dig in. This is less neccessary at ODI level and if Chanderpaul continues to prove almost impossible to dislodge then the less disciplined players can play around him and I'm sure some of them will come off. I think the Windies will compete in the ODI's although partly because England are a poor ODI side.
Complain about this postI was brought up on England being thrashed by the Windies - that battery of quicks, Holding, Croft (who he? ;)), Marshall, Garner, Roberts - and several others nearly as good; those wonderful batsmen - Sir Viv was a particular favourite of mine, even if he was on the other side. So I thought I would get great pleasure when the boot was on the other foot. But - no. Sure, I wanted England to win every test, but I wanted the Windies to make a fight of it, show some spirit - OK, it's not possible to always have a team of the calibre of that of the early 80s, or even the successors over the next 10-15 years - but this was just awful. Yes, Chanderpaul was excellent, but that just showed how terrible the rest were - very little fighting spirit. Edwards I liked - good spirit, genuinely quick, even if nothing like one of the greats, Sammy also had the desire, and Bravo at least tried. But for the rest - well, what can I say.
So, will they do better in the one-dayers? Yes, I think so, if only because England are much poorer at that form of the game. But for the sake of West Indies cricket, I hope it doesn't paper over the massive cracks that are glaringly obvious at the moment.
We want the joy back in West Indian cricket!
Complain about this postHa ha Mr Croft - how things have changed since you and your fellow 'quicks' were regularly thrashing England. You don't like it now when the proverbial boot is on the other foot!
Complain about this postI enjoy your articles Mr. Croft but to think that West Indies could beat England with such a poor team with an appalling work ethic and lack of focus and will, begs beyond belief that you thought West Indies could beat England.
There isn't the same pride in representing the West Indies as there was in the 70's and 80's and the current crop of players seem to be motivated more on how much they will earn playing for the West Indies rather than focusing on maximising what talent they have. Players such as Gayle, Sarwan, Samuels and Dwayne Smith spring to mind.
i think it is time to think about the possiblity of having two divisions in Test cricket As painful as it would be for you, West Indies would certainly warrant being in the second division along with Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and other developing countries as it seems pointless at the moment to have 4 Tests against such an appalling team who don't warrant that amount of Test matches at this moment in time. I can only see further thrashings against top quality opponents such as South Africa and Australia where weather permitting, it is feasable to see each Test Match ending within 5 days against such strong opposition.
Complain about this postwest indies are shocking they really do need kieron pollard or someone that is aggressive in that middle order i feel opening with gayle and renako morton could be a masterstroke rather than the sloppy ganga.
Complain about this postChris Gayle seems to represent all that is wrong with WI cricket. I know nothing about him as a man but his absurd and spectacularly irresponsible approach to batting as an opener in seaming conditions during the test series suggest that he is wholly unsuitable to be captain of the 1-day side. If he is so ill-disciplined as a player, what possible example can he give to the players under him?
The solution for the West Indies is simple but brutal. Drop the players whose attitudes are simply not right and Chris Gayle has to be the first to go. No matter how talented a player is without the right attitude he is worthless. If the board are uncertain about who these players are I suggest they watch a tape of the past four tests and take a look at the the low-class, bungling and totally reprehensible fielding. Plenty of unenthusiastic slackers ready to be dropped there.
Put simply, it is time to build a team around Chanderpaul, Bravo, Ramdin, Sammy and Edwards and find West Indians with the heart and courage these guys have. The rest can take a hike.
Complain about this postLet's get this straight, West Indies cricket is a mess, the players, the coaches, the selectors, the board everthing and every aspect of the West Indies Cricket is a mess.
All i can say is they need to look at other teams and see what they do in order to achieve what they are in test cricket.
i will never stop supporting the West Indies but as someone now living and working in london i am really looking foward to the upcoming series between England and India. I will be supporting England.
I really do hope that for the love of the game and for what the region have achieved in the past that someone or something can help the West Indies and bring them up to something like the standards of old.
i've never worked in cricket so i have no suggestions but i'm sure they are many out there who would have ideas for the team.
Complain about this post(Tony Bullock wrote) - : Ha ha Mr Croft - how things have changed since you and your fellow 'quicks' were regularly thrashing England. You don't like it now when the proverbial boot is on the other foot!
You seem to forget Mr Bullock, that back in the 80's England had a very strong team and you still got hammered by the Windies. There is no way on earth you can say that the Windies team (or should I say jokers) of today are that much better than Zimbabwe/Kenya. I can guarantee that most Windies supporters already knew the outcome of this series before it had even started, we just didn't think that it would be that easy.
Complain about this postWest indies need three more fidel edwards, then they would be fine. Bowlers like collymore, bravo and sammy wont win matches. Remember in 70's and 80's when team like england, pakistan, india and newzealand were having outstanding allrounders. It was still the west indies who were the world champions and they didnt need any allrounder to do that. Specialist cricketers can make far more bigger difference than the all rounder.
Look at australia now, they dont have any allrounder. Although they are obsessed with watson but they dont need an all rounder as they have achieved far better results over the years, without having an all rounder. I really feel surprise with their obsession.
The main similarity between the present australia and the past West indies is that they were without any all rounder and still they were world champion. Hence the best combination for west indies would be 4 bowlers like fidel edwards, six specialist batsman plus a wicket keeper like jeoff dujon.
conclusion, a team full of specialist cricketers is better than having an allrounder.
Complain about this postIf England were going into the one dayers with Fletcher in charge then the West Indies would be in with a chance.We don't know the England squad yet but can only assume that we will go in with a squad of players suited to the short game.
Complain about this postIf this is the case then there is no hope for the West Indies.
Maybe its time for a thorough shake-up of the WI Test side. Without wanting to be too harsh, a player like Darren Ganga is never going to be a world class batsman, nor Collymore a world class bowler. Throughout the series commentators tried (understandably) to defend the Windies, as a 'young' team. But they're not are they? Ganga & Collymore are older than Pietersen & Panesar for instance.
The one exciting young talent is the potentially brilliant Dwayne Bravo. He's played 20+ Tests and not yet been on a winning side... Why is he being dragged into mediocrity with average players like Ganga & Co.? Surround him with 20-24 year olds, and they can learn together to be better in 5 years time. Whatever their results, it can't be any worse than now, and many of these current guys have no future anyway.
Complain about this postWell said 'Mervin Bain' - Colin you are also everything that is currently wrong with West Indies cricket - you come across as a man who does not want the West Indies to win, maybe if they do we will stop looking back at the past and you wont see your name in print so often. I been a West Indies fan for over 30 years, the talent is there but the attitude is wrong. Every team loses and WI will for more years to come, but I would like to see them put up a better fight. I would also like to complement England, you can only beat what in front of you and they did a good job.
Complain about this posti also feel they should do better in the one day series.The WI team is full of guys who don;t have what it takes for test cricket but with every one able to chip in in one day cricket i feel they have a better chance.Cannot believe after Kieron Pollard score so many runs in the regional tournament last year he is all of a sudden droped,unbelievable.Also can any one tell me how WI under 15 and under 19 did so well just a few yrs bak and won their respective world tournaments yet we hardly see any talent from those teams coming through.What happened did all the guys from those teams just stopped playing cricket all of a sudden?????????
Complain about this post"Not even the English supporters enjoyed the mauling."
Au contraire, Mr Croft, many English supporters, especially those growing up in the 1980s, enjoyed this series very much indeed, as we have enjoyed the previous three series against West Indies.
20 years+ since the last series victory by a West Indian team in England. 7 years and rising for the last test victory by West Indies over England. Very very enjoyable, as, I am sure, were your constant victories over England in the 1970s and 1980s (and, less so, in the 1990s).
It always amuses me when other test nations trot out the excuses when England win, and try to devalue any English victory. They are the same people who are quick to crow when their teams beat England, no matter how weak England are at the time. Remember 1988? Was that a strong England side? Hardly!
Complain about this postWest Indies as an entity no longer exists, it is now a collection of proud independent nations who find it difficult to generate "team spirit" or oneness as a team. Any one country like Guyana, Barbados, Trinidad or Jamaica with sponsorship from wealthier cricketing nations. and players recruited from outside could produce teams at least as competitive as some of the "minows" in the last world cup
Complain about this postI have a simple advise for WI players, coaches and everyone else around the team. Please spent half of your time instilling in the minds of our players the difference between Test, and One day matches when we are approaching them. Apart from Chanderpaul, absolutely no one else in the team seemed to understand that critical difference during the just concluded series.
Complain about this postI feel for anyone who is forced to watch this impending one day series. Personally I have some paint that is drying and it is a tossup between the two.
Strange, I seem to remember one of the best matches at the World Cup being between Eng and WI.
Complain about this postChanderpaul's numbers look impressive, but does it take way from the fact that he's among the most SELFISH batsmen ever? After playing for over 14 years, he ontinuously allow the tailenders to take too much of the strike, thus the team always gets bowled-out.
He needs to use hi experienece to guid ethe team, esp the tailenders, and stop exposing them so his 'not out' give him good averages. He's the only one capable of doing it, so he should at least try. MOST SELFISH BATSMAN.. WASTE OF YEARS OF EXPERIENCE!!
Complain about this postA very very positive post about WI cricket team. I think in a few years WI will be back to good old days if the same positive and optimistic outlook even in face of 0-3 loss continues.
Complain about this postMr Croft,
Complain about this postThe problems with West Indies cricket begins with the reluctance to pick the leading wicket taker in the history of West Indian domestic cricket. This same man dominated the Sandford Twenty20 and as a result took not only the man of the match award in the final but also the player of the series. This man is desperate to represent his country again and hurts everytime he see's them lose without being able to help them. Can anyone offer a cricketing reason why Mahendra Nagamootoo isn't at the very least in the ODI side??
Chanderpaul's numbers look impressive, but does it take way from the fact that he's among the most SELFISH batsmen ever? After playing for over 14 years, he ontinuously allow the tailenders to take too much of the strike, thus the team always gets bowled-out.
He needs to use hi experienece to guid ethe team, esp the tailenders, and stop exposing them so his 'not out' give him good averages. He's the only one capable of doing it, so he should at least try. MOST SELFISH BATSMAN.. WASTE OF YEARS OF EXPERIENCE!!
Complain about this postAlot of what 'Andrew Hicks' has said is true, we've all witnessed it in this series and the eyes do not lie. But that's what happens when alot of batsman who've been successful at domestic level on their pitches and conditions get exposed to a totally different proposition in England and are unable to cope.
I can't excuse the bowling and fielding, that's a whole other issue but i do think the one-day series will be better. Although the game was meaningless for both teams, it was the best match in the World Cup and although they were disappointing as the hosts, up until then their ODI record has improved.
Reaching the final of the champions trophy in 2006 and winning it in 2004 is a sign of steady progress in that format. Let's hope we see a more competitive series in the one-dayers.
Complain about this postColin, i hate to admit this, but i might be your biggest supporter/fan (as a columnist, that is..lolol). I wanna know though; how can Gayle captain a team when his personal persona requires a TOTAL overall' both on & off the fielfd?
Secondly, why was Pollard 'good' enough to play in the most pivotal game in the recent WC, yet not good enough to make a 'simple' tour squad? TOTAL NONSENSE!!
WI should drop Sarwan, Chanderpaul & Gayle!! Their years of experience is of total non-effect to the team. We should clear house and start over. Take a few blows from Bangladesh, Kenya etc, so the 'new' guys can get some 'good' exposure, then become world beaters again; just like Sri Lanka did!!
Chanderpaul could lead the team as captain, neither can he lead the tail-end as a senior batsman, when batting! He only cares about batting for himself & his stats. What a waste of 14 yrs' experience.. RUBBISH!!
I'd honestly like to knoqw what you think of my opinions, esp re Chanderpaul. Thanks!!
Complain about this postJohn Thompson
I expect the main reason Mahendra Nagamootoo is not in the ODI squad is because as an all round an average of 55.44 and 13.50 for bowling and batting are pretty awful. Now, if they were the other way around......
He's also almost 32, so maybe they'd be better off finding a younger spinner who can bat a little.
Complain about this postMark Bailey
Apart from your inattractive crowing about recent England victories, you are also factually incorrect.
1988 (19 years ago) was a summer in which West Indies handed out a routine 4-0 thrashing against England, Malcolm Marshall taking a whole heap of wickets.
Complain about this postJust as when we thought of learning lesssion of debacle in World Cup, West Indies cricket would learn lesson on decipline and egerness to prove the worth, we see apathy and demoralised bunch on cricketing ground. Given the fact that England was (or is) no better team than WI all past year or so before, mauling by 3-0 tells the story.
I think there is more to discover than to see here. The whole WI management, lack of funds, constant bickering over contracts and sponsership is hemoraging the precious blood out of carrabiean cricket. Does the WI needs some kind of external push (ICC) to get its house in order?
Complain about this postThis is the worst so far of a long line of declining West Indies teams.
But cricket needs the Windies badly. It is a duller game without them.
Watching the West Indies in the eighties was one fo the highlights of the sporting calendar. I didn't care if England lost. I just wanted to watch the West indies.
I guess much of the decline comes from bad management and poor administration rather than a lack of cricketing talent.
Complain about this postI am always eager and curious to read Croft's article.
Complain about this postHe is blunt,no nonsense and articulate his points to give us a real sense of the issues.
West Indies cricket have tremendous problems that starts from the very top and trickles all the way to the field of play and then some---
There are many self righteous, egotistical and numskulls on the Board. It is no better from the selectors level.Changes must be made.
The real leaders and winners of the West Indies are Clive Lloyd and Sir Vivian Richards.The former have had leadership roll at the ICC and the latter is a winner around the world and dissects each team and players with superb accuracy from the commentary box.They know cricket and management.How can the West Indies team survive without the services of these stalwarts? Old school does not work---they seem to say.Maybe we don't have all the facts-- politics etc. hmmm---
Ganga is NOt a Test Cricket leader and cannot take the West Indies to the next level- He needs to assess his place on future tours.The selectors are wrong. How embarrassing that a captain for the Test matches cannot lead or have a place on the team in the limited overs.
Bravo has the true dynamics of a West Indian cricketer-he just need the discipline.
Without Narsingh Deonarine or Dave Mohammed on this tour tells the stupidity of the selectors- even the replacements are not up to par.Crofty is right to point out the absence of a spinner.
Chanderpaul will now get his due recognition but he still has that burning desire to see the TEAM perform well.Like all professional athletes in team sports, your individual achievements are over shadowed by the team's failure.He should be the batting coach/player.
I will like to see Gayle bat at #4 or #5 when he bowls 10 overs or more in a match.He is a misused weapon of mass destruction.
This team need a time out to focus and rebuild.They should delay the next tour.
Hope, is the operative word for all the West Indies fans around the world.We salivate for those glory days---
History,we hope, will repeat real soon.
Patience is a long way home.
I just wanted to add my twopennethworth on Chris Gayle - I remember watching him play in 2004 at Lords when he played really well - what's happened?
Like most of the posters here I remember the WI bowling attack when the pace was truely phenomenal - my era was slightly later then the greats of the 80's but to my mind nobody I have seen since Walsh, Ambrose and Bishop have been anywhere near as exciting to watch.
I do hope that the Windies can regroup and find and nuture any raw talent that appears - there must be players on the islands that would love to represent the Windies and enjoy themselves al la Bravo, Edwards and Chanderpaul .....
Complain about this postDear Mr Croft,
Ganga's captaincy was deplorable and inefficient, and his batting was far below average. He does not have that international edge. to play test cricket. Yet, you have not mentioned anything about him. Brian Lara as captain had tried very hard to motivate this team to success, and performed as a batsman, everytime he goes to the crease to bat, and many times he and Chanderpaul were in partnership of greatness. Yet, Mr Croft, you have always sledged this GREAT man disdainfully, and every article you have written you have blamed HIM individually for the WI failures. You, Holding, Cozier and the other pundits, were always putting the man's head to the "guillitine", maybe the reason for his frustration and his decision to retire abruptly. Now, to me you seemed like a hypocrite, and have lost your cynicism and satire, and seems to see it the other way. Really, "bad psychology", and now I think less of you. I wonder, did you hate Lara that much? So now the failures, in your opinion are due to the selectors, adminitration, coaches and the players. Why, not blame it on Ganga? He was the captain. What a captain? Not even a batsman to reckon with. He has pleny of mouth though, blaiming it on the conditions???????
Complain about this postI would be so happy if you read my comment!!!!!
Raja.
crofty, well said.
shiv, sammy and bravo apart apart it hardly looked like the rest of the test squad were
a) interested
b) had the ability/ desire to become real players.
west indies will probably be a better one day side than they are a test team but by how much?
Complain about this postlike so many, i really can't see any signs that the fortunes of west indies cricket will change. i hope i'm wrong.
Colin Croft - your just another of the ex-player commentors who wont to see West Indies team fail so they don't overshadow your acheievements. Lara was flawed, but you constantly criticised. Scared perhaps that if the WI suceeded they would stop talking about your team of the 80's
Complain about this postIn life when you do something and it works out as you hoped, you do it again. If it works out once more you do it again and again and so on. This is called positive feedback. Such repetition becomes a habit until suddenly the old ways don't work any more and ten you are lost because the habit stops fresh thinking.
This is the problem with the Windies. the selectors, the board and even the fans grew up in an era where certian things could be taken for granted - a surplus of pacey strike bowlers, atheticism in the field, aggressive batsmen, plenty of county experience. None of this exists any more. So the thinking has to change. The selectors cannot still favour the quicks over spin. Lack of craft means you have to go for graft. There are so many good names that were left behind on this tour - Ryan Hinds, Tino Best, Pedro Collins, Dave Mohammed. These players may not have the same level of craft as a Gayle or a Samuels but they are certainly willing to graft.
The selectors should adopt a new criteria - select a team on purely fielding skills. batting and bowling may need talent but fielding needs commitment, hard work and fitness. That should sort out the men from the boys.
Complain about this postI must say I agree on who is to blame for the debacle but I dont agree that Shiv should not take part in some management process. I dont think it should be long term but I think he should at least mentor new comers to the squad. Keep the pressure off him if thats what you are worried about. The problem with the squad at present is the inability to maintain a certain state of mind long enough to pursue their objectives. They can in ODIs because its just one session. The management need to sharpen their own skills in motivational techniques to deal with this. Get people skilled in this area around the squad to help them focus on positive vibes.
Complain about this postGiven the fact that England was (or is) no better team than WI all past year or so before, mauling by 3-0 tells the story.
sushil, hate to break the news(!) but england are ranked no 2 for some time now so i think they jus might have been a tad better then WI coming into series.....
Complain about this postColin,
When Ramnaresh Sarwan began his cricket, much was expected. This has not quite happened.Your take on this.
Second, the Lara saga. This man even today is very close to being the best batsman in the world. What was the obscene hurry to push him out of the team and force him to retire.
Last, where is Rohan Kanhai now, arguably the greatest cricketer Guyana ever produced.
Complain about this postI come from a non cricketing family and my first taste of cricket was watching Walsh/Ambrose and Bishop giving Atherton and co a hard time, during my school holidays. This got me hooked and I have watched and played cricket ever since. I now find the current situation with the West Indies sad and poor for cricket in general. I wanted England to win but the manner in which they one was not good.
I for one, hope the West Indies are back up there giving us a hard time in the near future.
Complain about this postOnce again tha West Indies team has demonstrated its absolute lack of common sense in its approach to Test matches.
Complain about this postIt should have been obvious by day five that there was NO way in the world that the WI could win the match!!! Therefore, the obvious thing to do was, DIG IN, i.e; play for a draw. Instead, our guys seem to have decided to push for a ''sizeable total'', then tempt England to chase it, hoping to bowl them out in the process. They should have realized that the Englishmen are no fools.
Hats off to Chanderpaul for his brilliant performances. But as Colin Croft rightly said, no man is an Island, not even Chanderpaul.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me but, I am begging Brian Lara to cut short his retirement & return to the team. Now that the pressure of the captaincy is no longer on his shoulders, he could play even better than before. Despite all his faults, he is still the best batsman in world.
Ganga seems to be a good leader, except in his batting. Here's hoping that the WI team will grow up soon.
Royston Murray,
I am joining you in your prayers to bring Brian Lara back.
They must really hate him there. Here is someone who could be described as a Tendulkar plus, if anyone can be that. Yet Greenidge, Roberts and company supposedly decided to kick him out of the English tour, dropped all kind of hints to the press. Lara supposedly came to know about the sordid happenings and quit. This is believed to be the general plot of this tragic comedy.
I am sure Colin Craft has a very good idea as to what happened, and why events moved the way they did.
Perhaps because Lara was a prima donna and bad for the team spirit.
WE JUST SAW THE TEAM SPIRIT AND CULTURE!!!
Pls help, oh Ram, pls help and show them right way.
Complain about this postHugo Clarke: How odd that you watched this series and vent so much anger on Chanderpaul of players!!! Without his doggedness the Old Trafford & Riverside results would be rivalling Headingley's as the worst ever in W Indian history.
Yes he's selfish. So were Richards & Lara, and for that matter Pietersen, the world's next top batsman. And a certain Don Bradman was too.
Modern test sides should have no more than one 'rabbit', a McGrath or Murali who deserves a place despite their poor batting. Otherwise bowlers need to be able to look after themselves with the bat. The last remaining batsman should of course dominate the strike - BUT - not if getting on strike requires significant risk, i.e. a hurried single. He should be protected, and the tail-ender play for a safe single to exchange positions. If a wicket is to fall, better the tailender than the specialist batsman.
It was not Chanderpaul's fault that moronic stroke, like Darren Powell's horrible bunt into the air, were played by the tail-enders. Players like Powell, Sammy and Edwards have to learn to bat a la Gillespie, Warne, Lee, Hogg etc.
Complain about this postStatistics ha! No wonder people get confused by them. Chanderpaul, wonderful batsman that he is, scores an aggregate 446 runs in five innings at a calculated average of 148.66 (because he was not out in two of them) and yet his highest innings in the series was only 136 not out! Madness.
Complain about this postwhy the hell is jermaine lawson is not in the team and what the hell is collymore doing in the team.? do hell with his ation man , he has been cleared by icc, get lawson in the wi team .and plz somebody tall the wi administrators to get a bowling coach as well as a fielding coach to assist with the team. ankit
Complain about this postcurious. whats the deal with the windian bowling??? pedro collins, tino best. 2 pretty good bowlers, both far more likely to get wickets than collymore and powell. if they want to improve, then the best players must be picked.
also, i think the windian batsman could learn from chanderpaul. you cant score in the pavillion. be greedy and runs will flow. they could have beaten england if they would have batted more time and the best bowlers were in the uk.
Complain about this postyet again, My question is to those pandits and fans who wwantered around saying that Brian Lara was the biggest problem in the WI cricket, against team spirit-------------etc etc? have we seen anything different here? infact Lara was vindicated yet again? Fidel Edwards, the fastest bowler available got a game only when things got over, not that his early inclusion would have made a hell lot of difference, at least it would have given the harmless bowling some kind of a look!!!. now don't we remember Lara's spat with the selecters during the India series on similar points?
Complain about this postWest Indies have managed to push out the only link that really connected them to those good old days!!!. Shiv and Bravo [really a pick of Lara] are the only players left with the right approach twards the game!.
but for the sake of the game, one can only hope that the WI would somehow find a way out of this mess sooner than later!.
Hugo Clarke i must say i wholeheartedly disagree with you. To blame Shiv Chanderpaul for not rotating the strike well enough at the end of the innings is simply not fair, sure he could improve on that side of things but you can bet your house hes not doing to improve his average. You can tell from just the way he bats that he is more interested in team success than his own, hence the determination to not give his wicket away.
Complain about this postHugo Clarke i must say i wholeheartedly disagree with you. To blame Shiv Chanderpaul for not rotating the strike well enough at the end of the innings is simply not fair, sure he could improve on that side of things but you can bet your house hes not doing to improve his average. You can tell from just the way he bats that he is more interested in team success than his own, hence the determination to not give his wicket away.
Complain about this postMr. Croft, you can fool some of these people but you cannot fool West Indians. Were you one of those complaining about Lara's selfishess? Now all of a sudden selfishness is a good thing?
More importantly, you claim that Pollard was Lara's pick. But Lara was not around when the WC team was selected? Remember that Lara angrily responded to Andy Roberts (one of the selectors) in a news conference that THEY (and not he) selected this team. So how could he have possibly been Lara's pick?
Do you know who are Lara's choices? Collymore, Edwards, Bravo.
Complain about this postwest indies must understand they have to play high pressure cricket. here is my test team in batting order. 1.c. gayle. 2. d. bravo. 3. s. chanderpaul. 4. duane smith. 5. r. sarwan. 6. r. morton. 7. d. ramdin. 8. d. sammy. 9. d. powell. 10. f. edwards. 11. j. lawson. brief comment on each player. gayle . every time he goes to bat he give me the impression that he forgot something very important in the dressing room. all i am asking gayle to do stay in the middle for 3hrs and see what happen i gurantee that his batting average will be only second to sir bradman. remember gayle runs scored in the middle. you are too brilliant to be spending so much time in dressing room. bravo. i love your work ethics you are a wonderfull allround cricketer but you need to carry on batting one shot too many you need to turn those forties into hundreds. chanderpaul.continue doing what you are doing. smith you are a blessing so talentted.play each ball on merit if you play the first ball for four that doesnt mean you can play the next ball for four you got to be selective with shots consentration you got to stay in the middle so you can showcase your talent you have to back yourself as the next viv richards that is the confidence am talking about. please for the good of all of us stop the bowling you are not a bowler consentrate on your batting and fielding those you can be the best. i beg of the w.i. not to let such wonderfull talent go to waste sarwan
Complain about this postI enjoyed the mauling greatly, actually. After decades of defeat to the Windies and especially after the disgrace and humiliation of the winter I relish England destroying any opposition in a mauling fashion. I enjoyed every second of it and I hope there is more to come !! Kick them while they're down !!
Complain about this postDear Mr. Croft,
Thanks for your continued frank thoughts expressed over the extended period of West Indies decline.
As a cricketing Bajan, I must share my optimism before the series started because I am still of the opinion that leadership on the field was one of the main failures of West Indies cricket. The appointment of Ramnarase Sarwan as captain is definitely going to bring the team back to its former ruthless way of playing.
The unfortunate injury to Sarwan was in my opinion, responsible for the decline in our performance in the remaining tests. At Lords his field placing was very effective. As you would have noted at Chester-Le-Street, the majority of England's runs came from the positions of thirdman and fine leg. The field placing was reminiscent of the recent past test matches played under other captains of similar thought ( that to have a thirdman is to be defensive).
The WI Captain must discuss field placement more with the bowlers. Cooke kept turning the ball of center and leg stump, square on the legside and always in the air. The same situation existed for Strauss. I see no sense in bowling to three slips and two gullies and not expecting the ball to go to the thirdman boundary instead of to midwicket and midon.
I recall that in post Clive LLoyd and Viv Richards period as Captains, Wes Hall and Charles Griffith never bowled the new ball with a midon nor midoff. No batsmen of that era were able to hit those bowlers back pass them unless the yorker was misdirected and that was only occasionally. the point I am making is that more attention must be focussed on field placing.
I do admire Michael Vaughn and Rickie Pointing in their ability to set fields specifically to suit how a particular batsman is playing rather than the conventional textbook fields.
Back to the current series, the cold weather has had a detrimental effect on the players ability to give of their best especially in the field. Colds hands bit when hit by the ball and the legs are slow to move even when batting. In this connection, I am looking forward to better performances as the conditions get much warmer.
Don't be discouraged Mr. Croft, we will soon not be rehashing failed players and the players will adopt a more aggressive attitude as demonstrated by Fidel Edwards notwithstanding the 15% penalty.
Sarwan as captain understands that we WIs are not all of one culture, hence will marshal the players with a human touch off the field and as a Ruthless General on the field. Lots of pride will return as we start winning again.
Mr.Croft, please, please talk to the bowlers and have then practice again not to bowl noballs and wides. We lost at Old Traford almost by the margin of our Extras.
Finally, you must comment on the thought: The WI need 1 Bowling Coach, 1 batting coach, 1 fielding and conditioning instructor and 1 Manager with proven cricketing ability. No Head coach is required. The Manager will form part of the Squad Selection Committee and none of the coaches should be involved in team selection.
Good Luck to the West Indies in the ODIs.
Bajan Alfred Alleyne.
Complain about this postDEAR DEAR DEAR , another disaster tour , players arguing over money again, WICB living on past glories! What is happening to West Indian Cricket.
Complain about this postChris Gayle moaning about lack of organisation yet here is a senior player who contriubated nothing to the tour, spent the final day of the last test giving his wicket away and walking around in the slips hands in pocket and moaning and yet he is given the one day Captainancy!
How can anyone forget the pictures from Old Trafford West Indian supporters sitting in the cold while the players are throwing their wickets away to get back in the warmth of the dressing room!
And to compound matters the players are arguing about money, well those players should feel a shamed of themselves,
If they are looking for performance pay those players should be paying us supporters for the shoddy performance over the last few years !
Enough is enough Get rid of the WICB pick a strong management that includes Colin Croft , Sir Viv Richards and Tony Crozier .Micheal Holding and Jimmy Adams and let the rebuilding commence!
We should be using these guys they do not want to be stuck in a commentary box here is a great opportunity to build for the future
Come on Croftie you know it makes sense and you want the involvement!
This cannot go on !
I'm old enough to remember the truly great WI teams of the 70s and 80s. I was also at the Lords match a few years back when England bowled the Windies out for 54 or something.
I crowed about it then , remembering past humiliations but now it is just embarrassing. Cricket need,s a strong WI to make it competitive.
It does seem odd that the ICC invests huge amounts of money in "globalising" the game but just watches a former cricketing superpower go down the toilet.
Having said that the onus is on the Windies themselves to sort it out. They have plenty of great retired cricketers who could be used to train and motivate the team.
I reckon 30 minutes being shouted at by Viv Richards would sort them out. At least it would make them take their hands out of their pockets and stop whining about the cold.
Complain about this postI didnt dont hear commentary by viv richards i was watching mikey holding ,jimmy adams sir ian etc on sky . whar was it he meant by shiv batting with a stick of rhubarb? was it in a negative sense or positive? thanks for your take on that...
Complain about this postWest Indies has become what we called here in America," a minor league team" and as such should be relegated.
Complain about this postYes, I enjoyed the mauling.
Complain about this postHaving watched Englishmen, including adopted ones like Robin Smith and Lamby, being battered and bruised into submission by 10-over-an-hour fast bowling machines throughout the late seventies, eighties and nineties, and having to endure the insulting quasi-racist 'blackwash' taunts, I cannot witness enough payback. Get into them boys: chin music, no drives and some serious swagger.
Having said that, I just loved watching Greenidge, Richards, Richardson and Lloyd coming in unhelmeted against absolutely any fast bowling attack (fortunately for them, not their own) and smashing it all round the ground as and when the mood took them! Now THAT's entertainment
As a fellow Guyanese and a West Indies Supporter through the good, bad and ugly times, I readily admit that I may be just a bit prejudiced here. So it will perhaps be of no surprise to say that I totally concur with Mr. Croft.
An article about Chanders is in today's Cricinfo, by S. Rajesh will confirm everything he (Croft) has said or written about Chanders.
Before this series started, Mr. Croft opined that the West Indies could win. I agreed with him then and if we go back a month and a half in time, I would still agree with him. After all, it was not a definitive prediction and let's face it, the English team did not do anything before this latest series to distinguish themselves.
Besides the obvious injuries to the West Indies team, the one reason for West Indies failings in this series that is often overlooked, is the fact that the West Indies players to a man were not close to 'match ready' when the series started. The English players already had more than a month of competitive cricket under their belt and the unfortunate West Indians, absolutely had none. Furthermore, anyone who knows anything about cricket, will know that the English conditions are like no other and the West Indians simply could not adapt in such a short time.
Now, some of you will say well, too bad. They should have been prepared, etc. But, the fact is that this tour was not on their schedule and was only recently added because England needed somebody to fill the space. The WICB must take the blame here for throwing their players to the dogs, but I guess when one is strapped for cash like the WICB, anything goes.
I also agree with Mr. Croft that Lara's leaving is the best thing that could have happened to West indies Cricket. Is he (Lara) still a good bat? You bet he is, but that's not the point. With the "saviour" gone, everyone will have to step up their game. Fact is, we lost with Lara and we can Lose without him. Same difference. It's building for the future and as I ahev said before, letting Lara go is "Addition By Subtraction."
Now, I may be reaching here, but I truly believe that there are a few positives that the West Indies could take from this test series. Asides for the obvious talents that needs to be nurtured and Sviv, there are a some not so obvious positives. Take Darren Ganga's spectacular failure. Before this seies started, the West Indian camp (and by that I mean the WICB and some folks in T&T) were divided on who should be the captain. They even tried to make Ganga the captain of the ODi team, even though he was not even named in the ODI team before the series started. Now, the consensus should be 100% in favour or Sarwan and at the very least those who supported Ganga should clam up. Obviously not having a spinner in the team was and is a mistake. I am personally in favor of drafting Narsingh Deonarine, who is also good with the bat, in the team.
I expect the West Indies to improve over time (and of course, I'll say a few prayers for them). Maybe I am too optimistic, but I am West Indian and I am not going to be a fair weather fan. It does not mean that I will support the WICB blindly or I believe that everthing is hunky dory with West Indies Cricket. But as a West Indian, cricket means too much to us a a people for us not to care.
So Mr. Croft, thanks for telling it like it is and to all all our detractors, I am sure that our beloved West indies team will prove, if not now, then in the near future, that the death of West indian Cricket has been greatly exaggerated.
Mohamed Z. Rahaman (Breado)
Complain about this postReply to:
Post #23 John Thompson and
Post # 27 Guy
The stats on Mahendra Nagamootoo are as follows:
Bowling:
5 Test matches/ 12 wickets @ 53.08 per
102 First Class matches/370 wickets @ 29.22 per
Batting:
5 Test/185 runs @ 26.42
102 first class/2587 runs @ 19.02
Unfortunately for Nagamootoo and the West Indies, the selectors never gave him an opportunity. Not even an opportunity to fail.
Yet, they keep bringing back people like Ganga and you all know the rest.
At last however, M. Nagamootoo is past his prime. I just hope that Narsingh Deonarine is not treated the same way.
Personally, I blame the anti Guyanese sentiments by the Trini posse.
Complain about this postto right croft
shiv is such a brill batter simply you can't get him out. west indies r screwed without him!
Complain about this postThe West Indies problems begin with the useless Cricket Board. We hear of million dollar sponsorship deals, but in the World Cup Dwayne Smith's shirt had the numbers hanging off it. This board(termite ridden) once de-selected players for having endorsement deals with C&W. Where does the money go?? How many fans would be fully dedicated to a job, when the bosses are short-changing you? The decline of West Indies Cricket coincides with the relocation of the cricket board from Barbados to the tax haven of Antigua in the early 90's. The head is bad, the lack of results bears it out.
Complain about this postengland won three nill. england fans should enjoy it ! but behave like sportmen /women donot drag us in the mud when we are down
Complain about this postour batting line up missed our best batsman----
the captain sarwan,our #2 guy -gale is out of form. gale opens the batting and sarwan comes in at # 3. without them (injury and poor form)a young batting line up was expose to strange conditions.
we never picked a bowling attack to bowl england out but to contain them ( powell ,taylor and edwards should play every match)
this being said 50% of the reason we lost 3-0 was our fielding
so england enjoy it now for the time will come when we will pick our best attack allowing our captain to be more bold.when sarwan is back our batting will show it' class
last but not least WE HAVE THREE WORLD CUPS
PLUS ONE CHAMPION TROPHY-----
Chanderpaul is like KP. A 1 man band.
Complain about this postThe west Indies team need to show commitment. No doubt they love their cricket. They love to play the game in a natural way- enjoy and entertain. Unfortunately their style of play is not suited for the way the game has gone today. It is more played on drawing room boards than on the ground. They need to alter their style of management and leadership too. There is no doubt Ronnie sarwan is the best captain around. But the board has to have a long hard look at itself now.
Complain about this postI hear the youth in carribean are already losing interest in cricket, can there be a louder warning bell than this?
the west indies are rubbish without lara. bring him back! chanderpaul is very boring. he should be dropped. GAYle all the way!!! lol
Complain about this postWhy cant we get him out he is just the same as all of the other palayers but we have surcomed to just letting him bat rather than working at a plan to get him out
Complain about this postThe entire WICBC should voluntarily step down or FIRED.A plague to the progress of West Indian cricket.The selectors are no better. These self righteous, egotistical nemesis of society sits and creates everything that is bad for individual players and the whole team. It is the present day Politburo of old dictatorial Russia.
Blinded by power they cannot see their big BLUNDERS.
Criticize, and they're ready to strike you down.Their ineptness includes:
Replacement players, a very sorry list for the ODI- one player on suspension and they included, they gave Gayle the captaincy in a very " by the way thing.No spinner- Panesar caused the biggest West Indian downfall.
Gayle , a captain played no roll in his team selection.Comment and you know what's coming---
What kind of morale boost you are giving your selected leader?How dare you seek to destroy this fragile bond of your team under this cloud of poor performance by them and yourselves.These players are not tools, they are humans who deserves your sympathy and respect.
Gayle has no reason to apologize to anyone expect himself and his team for his poor performance with the bat.He needs a self evaluation--- look at Bravo & Chanderpaul for inspiration. Richards, lloyd, Kanhai or Sobers for proof.
Reaction:Gayle said: "I am very disappointed with the West Indies Cricket Board for not having the guys here in England already and ready to play.
The WICB has issued a very strongly-worded letter of reprimand to Mr Gayle advising him that his conduct is totally unacceptable.
"As the captain I have to say this is disappointing and it is not at all a good start.
Complain about this post"I also have to mention that I was hurt and disappointed that after I was nominated as captain by the selectors, I did not initially get the support of the board."
Mr Agnew is right, too much cricket is being played and the level of commitment and performance is falling.
Fans BOYCOTT the next home series if there is no change.Get Gov't involvement.
Hope, perseverance and patience for change.
I have been listening and watching cricket for a very long time and I have never seen west Indies players plays like this before. I would really like to know if all of these guys are there to repersent their country witch is on HONOR or they there to collect what they can get.
Complain about this posthttp://usa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/1970S/1972-73/AUS_IN_WI/AUS_WI_T4_06-11APR1973.html
Complain about this postfor those who remember this scorecard west indies out for 109 against the aussies in georgetown guyana .... routed by jeff hammond max walker and doug walters.
Why can't anyone ever get it straight?!? The West Indies are not a country. All you "stand up and be proud for your country" shouters, how proud would you be to play for the EU? The ICC created the "country" to simplify their bureaucracy. Bureaucratic creations don't inspire chauvanism, regardless of the flashiness of the logo. Yeah, I can see it. You're not English, you're not French; be proud to represent your country, the EU, as professional cricketers! And that IS a political body. Imagine playing for a "country" created by UEFA!
What DOES work in Jamaica, US, Zim., Pakistan? We work our butts off to put something together in societies that are disintegrating around us, because we love the game, love it's values and want to see them in wider circulation. Do you know what it's like to play for one of these sides? You slog through krap everyday, that has nothing to do with cricket, just to get a game. You have some out of touch old men, running the game for money alone. They appoint our regional administrators and you have to kiss their fat arses and massage their brittle egos to get into the side. When you're a truly brilliant player, and all anyone cares about is your reaction to their reaction to the ICC's reaction...well I'd sit in the hotel bar until late rather than focusing on the match, too, Chris.
BTW, I'm a human factors psychologist by profession, and there's a demonstrated, physiological basis to Gary Sobers' comments about night owl motivation. Most the greats wouldn't play under today's conditions. And I'm not speaking of the work load. You cannot get strong, responsible, original thinkers when everyone has to pass cleanly through the PC correct, nanny society filter they do today. Have to cut your dreadlocks, have to lie that a spliff is contrary to the spirit of the game... Sir Beefy, please use your greater fame as of late to say what a load this is. Perhaps mention that if you'd had to pee in a cup every match from under-5s on, you might have chosen another profession. Who dares call this a character issue when well known, former Surrey cricketers are being quoted to the effect that the fact that the captain of England is a damnable liar is neither here nor there? And the fans blame anyone that tells them the facts. Stupid journalist, just read the PR releases.
A pox on all your houses! That ain't cricket! Love money and punts? Go to Vegas. We love cricket. Leave it alone, already.
Complain about this postDear Colin
Complain about this postYou are absolutely correct. If everyone gets down as serious as Chanders then wi CRICKET IS BOUND TO SPIRAL UPWARD. sEEING THAT OUR BOWLERS ARE NOT ON THEIR GAME, THE BATSMEN MUST PILE UP THE RUNS AND HOPE THAT WE CAN GET THE OPPOSITION OUT UNDER THAT SCORE.
Hey Chander Bashers,
Complain about this postWhat will you say of Chanderpaul selfish display today?
Do you understand what Croft stated: that you can be selfish and a team player in the same game.
Now I hope you all will have the dignity to give this man ," Tiger" Chanderpaul his due compliments.
Congratulations to this batting genius in Chanders.