Muralitharan or Warne?
London - “My Cricket World Cup" on BBC World is preparing for a birthday party next Tuesday.
In celebration of Muttiah Muralitharan entering his 36th year, we're asking who you think is the best (spin) bowler of all-time? Is it the Kandyman from Sri Lanka, or his great contemporary from Upper Ferntree Gully in Australia, Shane Warne?
I presume most of you will agree that these are the two main contenders for that particular title, and while there may be others, surely none come close enough to the two spin kings of the modern game.
So let's start with the bare figures, and head-to-head Murali looks like the winner. In 35 fewer Test matches, he's only 34 wickets behind Warney's current world record of 704 Test victims.
Murali also has a superior average, a better economy rate and a higher strike rate. He has five more five wicket innings and has taken ten wickets in a match more often than the Australian.
The Kandyman's ODI stats are also a lot sweeter than the Australian's, although Warne bringing his one-day career to a premature end obviously has something to do with Muralitharan's huge advantage in terms of ODI wickets.
And one final point in terms of statistics, even though there are SOME human variables involved, is the “Wisden 100” list of 2002. Their all-time list of the “Best of the Best" has Murali as the game's greatest bowler, followed by Richard Hadlee. Englishman Syd Barnes was third with Warne down in fourth. Don Bradman came out on top in the batting list, so something was right with the Wisden list.
Enough number crunching for now because there are other factors at play, such as how many match-winning performances each has produced, the conditions in which they bowl, the influence they have on their teams, how they inspire greater and bigger deeds amongst their fellows through sheer commitment and personality, and the overall strength of the bowling of their team-mates.
While discussing the relative merits of these two greats, some of my colleagues in the BBC Sportsroom believe that personality should play a large part in the overall decision, as should the influence the two have on future generations.
Personally, while I believe both issues contribute to any player's legacy, I'm not sure if they're actually relevant when it comes to deciding on the pair's relative merits as bowling gurus.
In terms of match-winning performances, it's difficult for me to say because I simply haven't watched either of them closely enough and often enough to be able to offer an informed insight into exactly how many positive results for Australia and Sri Lanka can be directly attributed to the tweaking twins.
Murali's higher strike rate doesn't necessarily mean he's more effective, it could mean he's regularly taking the wickets of tailend batsmen in double quick time, which clearly isn't the case on any sort of regular basis, but you get my point.
Playing conditions must also be taken into account because there's quite a difference between pitches in Australia and Sri Lanka. You get one guess as to which take more spin.
And what about their bowling back-up? Has Warne been disadvantaged by the strength of Australia's other bowlers in the past decade or more? Glenn McGrath, Merv Hughes, Brett Lee, Jason Gillespie versus the ever reliable Sri Lankan paceman Chaminda Vaas (Lasith Malinga and Dilhara Fernando haven't been around long enough to be a part of this argument)!
Does Muralitharan have an advantage because he gets to bowl more overs than the rest of his team-mates? Maybe Warne has the advantage because the Aussie pacemen have usually battered much of the opposition by the time he comes onto bowl?
Many have claimed that Richard Hadlee only took such a large number of wickets because there wasn't anyone else in the New Zealand team who could knock the other team over. For me, that's heresy. Hadlee is one of my all-time heroes, although I can see some merit in the argument, but were Lance Cairns, Ewan Chatfield et al that bad? Surely not?
And then there's the really subjective element to the discussion: How much of your attention do the two bowlers capture when you're watching them? And even more importantly: How do opposition batsmen feel about facing them?
Well, the former Australian captain Steve Waugh has called Muralitharan the "Don Bradman of bowling", so that's one answer for the latter part of this issue, but what about the former part?
Personally, I am in awe of both. Every time I have watched the two legends, I have been utterly captivated, almost every single delivery has left me gasping, "whoa-ing" and wondering how any batsman can keep them out, let alone get bat on ball.
It's the ultimate theatre. The battle of the "doosra" and the "flipper" against the wielded willow.
In their chosen field, both are con-artists, tricksters and masters of deception, both have graced the game every time they have taken to the field and we have all been extremely fortunate to witness first-hand their amazing exploits.
If there IS a winner in the search for the "Best of the Best" between them, I will let you decide. In the meantime, I'm going to get back to planning Murali's in-absentia party. I think he may be too busy to make a personal appearance!
And finally, don't forget, if you want to appear live on the "My Cricket Wold Cup" or if you want to watch previous editions of the programme, you can find all the details on our website.
Until then, I declare this innings closed. Now let's see you chase THAT total!
Take care, and don't forget to email!
Adnan
Adnan,
They are both great bowlers and match winners. For me Murali beats Warne primarily as lethal weapon not only when he is bowling when he is fileding for his team.
More than anything, an unassuming role model for the youngsters. He is pleasant, work with the team and behaves as a real 'Gentleman' of the game.
He has never been accused of doping; the mental agony he has endavoured against the Australian-inspired conspiracy to discredit him and came out with fkying colours.
He is in every way 'the best of the best'
Kula
Complain about this postTo be eligible for best bowler of all time you have to be a bowler and most cricketers - armchair or otherwise - only see one bowler in the above list of candidates.
Complain about this postYou wouldn't hear me sticking up for Shane Warne very often but in this debate I do feel he is the better of the two cricketers.
Complain about this postOK, so in the bowling stakes Murali does have the statistics to back him up but he has also had a huge amount of controversy following him for his whole career regarding his action - which I know has been deemed acceptable so we've got to respect that.
As a cricketer however, Warne is by far the greater of the two. He is a true sportsman (though maybe not in the gamesmanship stakes). He has been a superb advertisement for spin bowling and children in the school playground do want to emulate him. He has also bowled the most famous ball in history - to dismiss Mike Gatting - and threw down a couple to challenge that during the '05 Ashes series, throughout which, he was as-near-as-damn-it playing as an all rounder .
No denying that Muttiah hasn't god class with his spin-bowling but the king of spin will always be the one and only Shane Warne =]
Complain about this postWarne all the way for me.
No doubt Murali has taken a huge number of wickets but there has been so much confusion and discussion about the legalities of his action it just seems false to call him the best of the best.
Warne inspired a new generation of spin bowling around the world and generally did it with a smile on his face too.
Complain about this postPANESAR!!
Complain about this postMuttiah Muralitharan is better in my opinion beacuse he has more character and personality. And his stats is way more superior. And plus he is more entertaining to watch.
Complain about this postWarne definately. He is the only one with a legitamite action. Bowling off spin with a bent elbow not matter whether the ICC says its ok is an advantage and an unfair advantage.
Complain about this postBowling with a straight arm Murali would be half the bowler and not near the best of the best catagory without doubt.
I think Warne is the best spine bowler the world ever see= he is great in the bating and in the feilding he also bring and excitment when he bowling warne turn the ball also better thatn Muralitharan
Complain about this postIt is almost impossible to split the two players. I would favour Warne simply because of the way he handled the 2005 ashes. With no other bowler taking regular wickets (with the possible exception of brett lee) he took it upon himself to take the wickets and to me did as well as he could given the circumstances.
This attitude would make me pick warne as the greatest spinner but one must remember that murili is an off-spinner, in contrast to warnes wrist-spin, and batsmen may prefer the ball coming towards them or spinning away so that would also have to be considered with economy rates, an impossible task.
Complain about this postFor me its Warne. That first ball against Fat Gat, legendary!!!!! Still gives me goose pimples watching it now, its no coincidence that the Aussies have been on top for best part of last two decades
Complain about this postPanesar! are you joking! he's not even worth his place in the England side. People getting carried away with his 'cult' status, he's not really that good! Keedy for England!
Complain about this post'although Warne binging his one day carer to a premature end'
Complain about this postBinging or bringing? thats a clever misprint if i ever saw one
Murali has been unlucky. He has been permanently dogged by the question mark over his action. It doesn't matter how many times his action is cleared, there are some people who will forever say he's a chucker. Personally, I think he's a master.
And also do not forget that Warne was banned from the game for taking drugs. That's hardly a good role to set.
I believe Warne was assisted, not hindered, by the strength of his bowling partners. However, Murali, if memory serves, has played the majority of his games on pitches that support his action. I seem to remember also that the bulk of Murali's wickets are against "lesser" teams. I might be making that up.
Ultimately, though, it's all swings and roundabouts. Why the need to even pick the best one? They are both a delight to watch, and, let's face it, if you were picking a World XI, you'd pick both, stick one on at each end and let them take all 10 between them. Job done.
(Given the choice, though, I would, of course, vote for Phil Tufnell. Legend.)
Complain about this postmaybe you could have come off the fence and actually choose a favourite?
Complain about this postWhile Murali must get credit for the number of games he has won with only Vaas providing any support I still think Warne edges it for me. Although both are true legends and I would have any in my team.
Coming on after Mcgrath/Lee/Hughes and co, especially in first innings on aussie wickets, often Warne would only have 5/6 batsmen left to go at. In contrast for many a year Murali would come on with 8/9 still standing on spin friendly sub continent wickets with only he or Vaas ever realistically going to do any real damage.
Also while only a small factori n considering bowling greatness, you must give Warne some credit for his slip fielding and superior batting which adds further to his overall impact
Complain about this postTotally invalid comparison. One of the games greatest in Warne vs. someone for who they had to change the rules in order that Sri Lanka could survive as a test nation and inprove the sub-continents political power base so that they could control the ICC. Warne all the way!
Complain about this postWARNEY!!!
Complain about this postthe bloke's a hero... nuff said
Is that meant to be a joke?
I knew someone would come out with Panesar... I just didn't expect it that quickly. He isn't even on the same level as Murali or Warne?! He's the best English spinner... but don't go and compare him with the two greatest!!! That's like comparing henman to federer... COME ON!?! Dont be silly!
Personally I think they are both equally great, maybe Murali is slightly better, but I prefer to watch Warne. His feeble run up and you just know the podgy man is going to do something good...
And that ball against Strauss. WOW! Let's see Panesar try to do that!
Complain about this postI think Warne nicks it as he has the ability to life everyone around him. I'm not sure Murali can do the same, especially if he's having a bad day. That influence can win games. Maybe I also feel like that as Warne is closer than Murali (in terms of persoanlity at least) to the man I regard as the finest cricketer of any generation; I.T. Botham.
Complain about this postWIthout wishing to resurrect the "throwing" debate, look at the picture of Murali above. How can that be a legitimate delivery, and within the new "angle of elbow" limits. It is much easier to both spin and vary the pace of the ball if you throw the ball (try it).
Because of Murali, there are a number of interesting actions around, which cannot be questioned as a precedent have been set. This is a legacy to cricket profered by Murali which goes further than who is the greatest spinner. Warne has undoubtedly offers a much less sinister legacy.
Warne has as pure an action as you could ever see, as has Kumble and Kaneria. This is where the debate as to who is best should sit.
Warne is the greatest spinner that has ever lived.
Complain about this postI've never seen a more dubious action than Muralitharan's - if his arm appears to me to bend excessively when I'm watching on TV then it must be even more disconcerting to the batsman facing him from 20 yards odd.
Complain about this postFor me it has to be Warne. Whilst Murali has the better figures, Warne has often been underused as McGrath, Lee et al have done the job in the first innings and Warne has not been required until the second.
Also Warne's contribution to the popularity and image of cricket cannot be underestimated.
Complain about this postForget about these 2 guys, how about DWAYNE LEVEROCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this postAs much as i like both cricketers and inf dit hard to separate them as the greatest bowlers of all time, arguments of this nature will go on forever as every has their own opinion.
The reason that i would suggest Warne is the better bowler is simple - who would you rather face. I would rather face muralitharan so for that reason warne wins. But i find it difficult to put murali second
Complain about this postMURILI
WARNE
WELL THATS THE HARDEST QESTION EVER BUT YOU CAN TALK ABOUT STATS AND ALL THAT BUT IN THE END WARNE HAS GOT AUSTRALIA OUT OF TROUBLE SO MANY TIMES AND HES GOT SUCH GOOD BOWLERS TO BOWL WITH HE GETS 4 IN 10 WICKETS PROBARLY WHILE MURILI HES GOT VAAS HE GETS 6 IN 10 SO THATS WHY MURILI GETS ALMOST 6 WICKETS EVERY TEST BUT IN MY OPINION MURILI IS FROM A PLACE WERE 3/5 BOWLERS ARE SPINNERS IN MOST TEAMS IND PAK SL BAN WHILE AUS 1/5 AND WARNE PLAYED ON PITCHES BOUNCY PITCHES FOR FAST BOWLERS SO REALLY YOU WOULD SAY WARNE BUT I HATE WARNE UNLESS HES PLAYING FOR HAMPSHIRE I THINK MURILIS AMAZING NOT TO BREAK HIS WRIST EVERY WEEK LOL BUT FOR THE BEST BOWLER EVER ID HAVE TO SAY
1.WARNE
Complain about this post2.MURILI
3.MCGRATH/LAKER
Murali is obviously extremely successful and a constant threat to batsmen and in any other era would have been far away the best spinner. I think the possibility of the illegitimate action is not so relevant in this debate.
But Warne has to be the best ever spin bowler. He has a simple, pure and economical action and is willing to bowl for an entire day if necessary. For his competitive spirit and belief that he can get any batsmen out at any time. He has so often changed games single handedly, and so quickly against all opposition (apart from India?). Maybe I am biased as his intimidation of England's batsmen has been so ruthless.
If it wasn't for Warne, I believe Australia would have been beaten far more often in Test Matches. He is the difference in class that all the other Aussies have gained confidence and benefitted from.
Complain about this postWell for me they are both great bowlers but one stands out above the other for a just a few reasons.
If we are talking about the best cricketer between the to spinners then surely that has to go to Shane Warne. He is a fantastic bowler and he also can bat for the side and score valuable runs in the latter stages of the innings. Murali lets himself down in this aspect as he is just a spinner (all be it a very good one!).
In terms of the quality of their spin bowling, i think they are very similar in their ability. Warne has played in a winning side for his entire career which always helps in terms of confidence and recognition. Sri Lanka are not mugs but they never reached the dizzy heights of Australia. With this in mind what Murali has achieved is amazing.
It is so hard to pick between the two in terms of their quality of spin bowling. But, if I had to choose one to be in my team it would have to be Shane Warne. I still remember that Gatting delivery today - it was truly sensational!
Yes it has to be Shane Warne. That said, I don't think I would like to be facing either in a crucial world cup game. Just imagine what a team would be like with them both in. Warne coming from one end and Murali from the other - awesome!!
Complain about this postDear Mr. Nawaz,
Obviously you are a very young man.
Murali and Warne are surely great, however I believe that you have to be more definitive in where to draw the line on what should be considered "modern game". Is Lance Gibbs modern" Are we talking about pre WWII or post war? Or before 1975 (1st World Cup) and after 1975.
Statistics as you rightly opine does not and cannot tell the whole story and could even be misleading. How for example, do you calculate for fatigue in terms of travel today (quite comfortable) as compared to the 60's or 70's, which was much more difficult? In crunching the numbers do the staticians consider how many more matches a player like Murali or Warne played during their "prime" as compared to Gibbs or Bedi in the 60's and 70's.
Regarding Warne and Murali, how about comparing the quality of batsmen they faced? Can we compare Sobers six sixes in one over to H. Gibbs six sixes against the Netherlands? Should the quality of the bowler from the Netherlands be considered on the same level as a Malcolm Nash or are we looking at a watered down product today? What about the quality and preparation of pitches today?
Finally (and I throw this in just for fun)... almost every expert in England and Australia say without questioning that Bradman is the greatest batsman of all time. Well let me throw a damper on that..How many "Black" fast bowlers did Bradman play against in his day? I recall certain English batsman (his name escapes me as I do not have all my references with me at my work desk) saying thatthe most dangerous and fastest bowler he ever faced in the 20's and 30's was a BLACK in what is now South Africa. And while we are at it let's checkwhat percentage of his (Bradman's) test runs were scored against England?
I ain't saying that Bradman is not great or that Murali is or is not better than Warne or that Richie Benaud is wrong about having 10 Australians in his best ever world eleven. All I am saying is that it depends on who's doing the talking.
Mohamed Z. Rahaman (Breado)
Complain about this postGuyanese living in Maryland
Murali is obviously extremely successful and a constant threat to batsmen and in any other era would have been far away the best spinner. I think the possibility of the illegitimate action is not so relevant in this debate.
But Warne has to be the best ever spin bowler. He has a simple, pure and economical action and is willing to bowl for an entire day if necessary. For his competitive spirit and belief that he can get any batsmen out at any time. He has so often changed games single handedly, and so quickly against all opposition (apart from India?). Maybe I am biased as his intimidation of England's batsmen has been so ruthless.
If it wasn't for Warne, I believe Australia would have been beaten far more often in Test Matches. He is the difference in class that all the other Aussies have gained confidence and benefitted from.
Complain about this postHahahahah.....Panesar !!!
Well, assuming when Warney started and he had same pitch as Murli has now and played those # of games per year, I bet Warney would be miles away from Murli; My bet Murli would be on this planet while Warne would have reached the moon..lol
Anyways, all credit should go to Warney as he came in the era of fast bowlers; He certainly made the cricket loving fans and future cricketers to consider spin as an option of bowling....Simply put he has given a lot more to Cricket then Murli would ever give !!!
Complain about this postThe picture does not show Murali to have an illegal action. The reason why his action was thought to be illegal was because his arm does not bend 180°, only about 150°. This creates an optical illusion that his arm straightens after passing the level of the shoulder. Straightening the arm makes a delivery illegal rather than bending it. There is no evidence that he straightens his arm in the delivery stride, but he is also incapable of bending it either. Both the University of Western Australia (in the country which complains most vociferously about Murali's action) and the University of Hong Kong concluded that his action was not illegal.
Complain about this postTest Match Figures
Murali
Warne
Personally, it seems as though Warne has less "cheap" wickets.
I'm no fan of Murali's action either.
Complain about this postAs far as stats are concerned, the following make an interesting contribution to the debate. Murali's career record includes 20 test matches against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, taking 137 wickets, while Warne has played just 3, for 17.
Complain about this postDrugs have no place in sport. Don't give them second chances then they'll all think twice before taking them.
Complain about this postWarne, you're a great player but you've been banned as a drugs cheat!!!!
Got to Be Murali in my eyes
Guys - Muralie has taken the wickets of one of the greatest batting lineups of all time viz. Australia.
Warne has never done that. He always boweled when Gillie, Hayden, Langer, Waugh, Waugh etc etc were standing on the field next to him.
I'm a Saffer - c'mon Proteas!
Complain about this postPeople say that Murali has an illegal action. How many times does one chap have to be cleared before people accept thst the experts know more than they do. the fact is that there are rules of the game, and as long as you operate within them then you are playing legally, and people should just shut the hell up about Muralis action.
Don;t get me wrong, I have huge respect for Warne - without him England would have trounced Australia in the ashes rather than just clinching them, and that's without counting the other huge efforts he has put in. but the fact remains that he is under suspicion of taking performance-enhancing drugs, whilst Murali has been constantly absolved of any wrong-doing, and carried on being the best bowler in the world. it is also strange how only the Australians ever seem to question his action, and an Australian umpire recently lost the respect of the whole world for accusing Pakistan of cheating, and how teams from the subcontinent have bananas thrown at them when they tour Australia. Does Murali have his action questioned because it's questionable, or because Australians don't like non-white players beating white players?
Anyway, I still think Murali is the best. he has the stats, the personality, and most importantly, the end of his career, to prove that.
Complain about this postI think you missed out classic england spinners such as Gilo and Tuffers.
Complain about this postBut seeing as theyre out of the running, Warney gets my vote, even if his stats aren't quite as good as Murali's.
I personally enjoy your assesment in an attempt to determine who is the grandmaster between these two spin wizards i however feel that a major factor overlooked is the cadre of the opposition faced and the success the two have had against them. Only then (subjectively speaking) can we have a true appreciation of one prowess over the other.
Complain about this postTo do the statistical analysis properly - I haven't looked at at Wisden's method - you need to look at who each dismissed and their batting averages. To compare bowlers from different eras the statistics have to be normalized (e.g. averages normalized to the average cost of a wicket for the "era") - there are various ways to do this but you need a complete dataset. For what it's worth I certainly don't believe Murali is a better bowler than Malcolm Marshall was. I would need to be convinced, also that either Warne or Murali were better spinners than Jim Laker. But then I'm an old guy.
Complain about this postMuch as I dislike Warne, I believe he is the better cricketer. Murali has mostly been successful in spin-friendly conditions, whereas Warne has succeeded in all conditions.
Complain about this postGreat article - I would say Warne because he has made a greater impact on the game at grassroots level. Warne revived the art of leg-spin. He made it fun to bowl leg-spin to your mates on the outfield.
You couldn't say the same about Muralitharan - I would not call him an "off-spinner". "Mystery Spinner" comes closer to the mark. You feel like you need to have a double-jointed elbow to do what he does (and every time you try to do it, someone will say, rightly or wrongly, that you're throwing).
Warne on the other hand is an ordinary, fattish bloke who likes a beer, a fag and some pizza. He doesn't have any special physical qualities - the very opposite in fact - they should be a hindrance to him. It makes him even more inspirational. Both men have to live with doubters but the guy off the street can relate more to Warne than he can to Murali.
Complain about this postwhoever flights the ball more should be the best spinner. Only a genuinely good spinner will dare to flight a ball and still take the wickets.
I prefer warne because he is always looking to take wickets not trying to stifle run rate by bowling negative line. he has the attitude of a fast bowler and a good show man too.
probably there were better spinners in earlier era, but murali and warne have handled pressure well and consistently delivered results
Complain about this postwhoever flights the ball more should be the best spinner. Only a genuinely good spinner will dare to flight a ball and still take the wickets.
I prefer warne because he is always looking to take wickets not trying to stifle run rate by bowling negative line. he has the attitude of a fast bowler and a good show man too.
probably there were better spinners in earlier era, but murali and warne have handled pressure well and consistently delivered results
Complain about this postYou canot say that Warne is better simply on the grounds that Murali 'chucks' the ball and hence has an unfair advantage. Firstly its been proven that his action is perfectly legal; besides,does anyone bowl with a perfectly rigid elbow? Im sure thta every bowler as a slightly flexed elbow, be it a tiny degree. To decide when a bowl becomes a through is an impossible decision to make and can only therefore be in the opinoin of an individual.
Secondly, if his action is beneficail, why does no one else copy this action? Y dont the Aussies get their acadamy hunting for someone to turn into the next murali?
If the question were posed to me..Which of the 2 would you have in your side? I would pick Warne, because you essentially get a bowling all rounder. But if i were asked..who is the better spinner? I would say Murali, listening to the World Cup it seems as though it is close to imposiible to pick the doosra form the offspinner! An unreadable action? Imagine A ball coming down to you with no idea which way it will spin? Is that something Warne can do?
Complain about this postFor me, as a young person, the truly inspiring bowler is Warne. There have always been question marks over murali's action, whereas Warne is delightful to watch bowl. Also, many of murali's wickets have come against lesser opposition on spinner friendly pitches, with more of the opposition to clean up. Considering that Warne ahs often come in after McGrath, who has 500 wickets himself, the number he has is unbelieveable. Also, considering his performances in the 2005 ashes series, he was by far the highest wicket taker on what were considered pitches friendly to pace bowlers bowling reverse swing.
Complain about this postIt has to be Warne
Saqlain invented the doosra and dosent bother about cricket anymore ... 'nuff said.
Complain about this postShane Warne first got me exited about cricket after years of John Emburey et al boring the pants off us all. I think he has done the most service to the game.
However, I think both have a claim to be the "greatest" depending on how you define it. Murali has probably been a consistently more effective weapon. After Warne's shoulder went, he wasn't the same. But (and it's a big but) I think Warne reached a far higher peak than Murali. The variety of his deliveries and accuracy with them all at his best was sheer genius.
Murali has had the better career, but Warne reached a higher plain and raised the bar.
Complain about this postAdnan, thanks for clarifying this and for the well-researched tactics.
Murali suffered in Australia and there was a particular umpire, who shall remain nameless, who caused him a geat deal of problems.
Apart from his superb record, Murali is an unassuming, but likeable character, without the brash airs of some of the cricketers. He does not resort to sledging to get batsmen out -- a standard trait and tactic of Austalian bowlers. He goes out his task with quiet, but ruthless ferocity.
Remember, Jeff Thompson with a funny action. Not one talked about it then.
Remember, Shane Warne was banned from all cricket for one year by the Australian Cricket Board after failing a drugs test. He should have been banned for life. There is no place is sport for drugs. A role model? Hah!
Mural, drug-free, clean and brilliant, the best spin bowler, the world has ever seen.
Complain about this postI have to agree with the majority of the contributors. Warne by a mile, purely on impact factor. Warne could and often did, change the course of a game. I do not recall Muri doing that against any of the major test playing countries. You could almost feel the buzz of anticipation reverberate around a ground when Warne was given the ball. His almost hypnotic dominance during the peak period of his career is unforgetable. This was so total against the excellent South African batsman, Darryl Cullinan as to force his premature retirement from the game. That is what I mean by Impact factor. I am afraid one cannot ignore the fact that Murallidaran's action is questionable to the point of doubtful. The decision of the ICC (or whoever) to "legitimise" his action owes more to the "politics of global cricket harmony" than to any genuine analysis of the relevant bio-mechanics. The particularly damming judgement of that past master of tweak Bishen Bedi makes the point forcefully and unassailably. I rest my case: Warne by the country mile.
Complain about this postwhoever flights the ball more should be the best spinner. Only a genuinely good spinner will dare to flight a ball and still take the wickets.
I prefer warne because he is always looking to take wickets not trying to stifle run rate by bowling negative line. he has the attitude of a fast bowler and a good show man too.
probably there were better spinners in earlier era, but murali and warne have handled pressure well and consistently delivered results
Complain about this postI have read all the coments given above.And should i like to catch attention from all on few points.
Complain about this postWarne hasn,t played his cricket on spin enemy pitches.because Aussies prepared speciall pitches for their champion bowler.You can have an example of Sydny,where McGill also played alongwith Warny.So there was enough in the track that Australians played with two leggies.And also that all pitches aren,t spinning traks in Sub continent.
Secondly Chucking was no more than a blame on muttiah thrown by westren media and what the Warny supporters say about his affairs with girls,drinking a lot,an unsuccessful life with his wife and drugs scandle in 2003 world cup?All these things are not above than a mere blame of chucking wich could never be prooved?
Nige!: After clearing Murali, the University of WA then became concerned about the 'doosra' which is basically the delivery in which Murali drops any pretence of bowling. They were of the opinion that it would be difficult to bowl it without straightening the arm. When it was found that even in test (rather than Test) conditions he was throwing it. The ICC's answer was to change the rules regarding throwing to allow Murali to continue throwing his doosra. They hid behind the red-herring of a recommendation that the rules be changed as some bowlers (the examples cited were all fast bowlers), no matter how correct their action was, were exceeding the limits of straightening the arm. What is always lost in these discussions is the fact that this rule change should not have related to spin bowlers since, due to the speed of delivery, they are no subject to the same forces. Unfortunately cricket is ruled by racial politics which won't allow any action to be taken against Asian heroes. Note how the Tendulkar and Inzamam ball-tampering affairs ended with the official who dared question them having their careers promptly terminated.
It is also worth noting that the Bedi and Holding are amongst many non-white commentators who have stated categorically that Murali throws. Are they to part of the Australian-inspired conspiracy? Their quotes on the subject are promptly ignored because they can't be trumped by the race card.
Australia had their arses tanned by the West Indies for the best part of 20 years without feeling the need to accuse them of cheating. Why is it you think that the supposedly racist Australians would be so accepting of the West Indies yet would resort to conspiracies against a vastly inferior team such as Sri Lanka? Courtney Walsh was given standing ovations at every test ground in Australia. He was also a non-white person in possession of the highest wicket taker ever title.
I keep hearing that cricket is going to split on racial grounds. I welcome the day. I'll miss the Tendulkars, Singhs and Jayasuriyas and the diversity of cricket played but it would be far better to not have to listen to the automatic hysterical shrieks of "bigot" every time someone is caught breaking the rules.
Complain about this postNige!: After clearing Murali, the University of WA then became concerned about the 'doosra' which is basically the delivery in which Murali drops any pretence of bowling. They were of the opinion that it would be difficult to bowl it without straightening the arm. When it was found that even in test (rather than Test) conditions he was throwing it. The ICC's answer was to change the rules regarding throwing to allow Murali to continue throwing his doosra. They hid behind the red-herring of a recommendation that the rules be changed as some bowlers (the examples cited were all fast bowlers), no matter how correct their action was, were exceeding the limits of straightening the arm. What is always lost in these discussions is the fact that this rule change should not have related to spin bowlers since, due to the speed of delivery, they are no subject to the same forces. Unfortunately cricket is ruled by racial politics which won't allow any action to be taken against Asian heroes. Note how the Tendulkar and Inzamam ball-tampering affairs ended with the official who dared question them having their careers promptly terminated.
It is also worth noting that the Bedi and Holding are amongst many non-white commentators who have stated categorically that Murali throws. Are they to part of the Australian-inspired conspiracy? Their quotes on the subject are promptly ignored because they can't be trumped by the race card.
Australia had their arses tanned by the West Indies for the best part of 20 years without feeling the need to accuse them of cheating. Why is it you think that the supposedly racist Australians would be so accepting of the West Indies yet would resort to conspiracies against a vastly inferior team such as Sri Lanka? Courtney Walsh was given standing ovations at every test ground in Australia. He was also a non-white person in possession of the highest wicket taker ever title.
I keep hearing that cricket is going to split on racial grounds. I welcome the day. I'll miss the Tendulkars, Singhs and Jayasuriyas and the diversity of cricket played but it would be far better to not have to listen to the automatic hysterical shrieks of "bigot" every time someone is caught breaking the rules.
Complain about this postHas to be Warne - for one he does not chuck it. Murali is a great bloke, but his action does not sit easy with me (not the only suspect Sri Lankan action).
Complain about this postWarne's impact when bowling, and also his ability to impact on the game in other diciplines, put him quite a way ahead.
Shane warne. He has got Australia out of the jail for so many times. Just look at the 96 and 99 world cup semifinals.
Complain about this posti think both have been wonderful for the game and there is no way u could say one is greater than the other....
but majority of the commments seem to be biased towards warne while intent on ridiculing murali, which i think is not fair. Murali had to put up with so much criticism from all corners and to block it away and perform the way he does says sumthing about the mans quality. And warne coming out and saying that Murali got his wickets bcos he bowls in the subcontinent is stupid.
I guess ppl tend to 4gt about Warne.Are we talkin about the same guy who was banned (blaming it on mom clearly shows a lack of imagination) for a while,paasing info to a bookie(for 5 grand thats real cheap) and stalking every woman he meets in a pub.
Coming to the cricketing aspect anybody who says that Murali got most of his wickets because he played on sub continent pitches shows that they do not undertsand the nuances of cricket.just look at Warne's stats in subcontinent. But to play against the poms,springboks who cant differenciate between leg and off now thats an advantage.And we all know what happened when Murali played recenty aainst the English.
if I were to suggest somethin better try choosing between your kids.
Complain about this postAdnan, you're asking for our opinions here. Well, in my opinion, Murali's action is illegal. I've always thought that, and it's always disturbed me that the ICC have never had the guts to do anything meaningful about it.
I'm sure he's a perfectly nice chap, and didn't set out at the beginning of his cricketing career to deliberately cheat, but the continued tolerance of Murali by the world cricketing community is detrimental to the image of the game, and it's supposed virtue of fair play. In my opinion, therefore: Mr.Warne.
Complain about this postthe question is "who you think is the best (spin) bowler of all-time?" stats don't lie - the answer is withough question murali.
Complain about this postMurali was young and in his prime when Warne was coming to the end of his career.
Yet Warne was still breaking records left, right and centre.
If you compare both of them when in their prime and young, Warne comes out on top.
Complain about this postThere are so many variables in the stat comparison debate and 'what ifs' that i find it hard to reach a conclusion using stats alone. As with most arguments like this there is no way to reach a definitive answer and it comes down to personal taste and preference.
I think if Murali's action is viewed as legal by the powers that be then it should be viewed as a positive rather than a negative part of his game. At the end of the day Warne can bowl like that if he wanted to, they just have different styles.
My opinion on spin bowling alone is that they are both sensational, almost equally. I think if i had to choose which one i would least like to face then it would be Murali because i think he is just the more deceptive and his ability to bowl balls with an added bit of pace scares me just a little too much. Plus i have seen Warne knocked about more than Murali so i know it can be done (although i think that is down to the fact i have seen more of Warne than Murali)
As to who i would rather have in my team it would be Warne without a doubt. His psychological play is amazing. He likes to makes comments to the batsmen to get in their head, engages in banter with team mates to put the batsmen off and always over appeals to the umpires and gets in their faces. I imagine this has wound up many a batsman and caused them to make that crucial mistake.
I know many will say that is Machiavellian and that the gentlemanly approach (murali's way) is the more admirable one. I don't disagree but there is no doubt Warne uses his psychological tools to good effect. I would point out also that whilst Warne may not be very gentlemanly in that respect but he is a great sportsman and if a batsman has played well and deserves applause he will always congratulate them and give them the recognition they deserve on the field.
The main reason he would be in my team without a doubt is that he can bat. He often comes in, puts in a brisk 20-30 and then gets out and Murali usually gets a brisk.....well...... out. Also if the plan is to protect their wicket then Warne is miles better than Murali than doing so.
Complain about this postSorry for going a bit off topic but i thought i would put my 2 cents in for the overall cricketer aspect. But strictly from a bowling perspective i think they are 2 giants, virtually as good as eachother but if i had to choose one, i would just about choose Murali.
I fail to see how there can even be a discussion on the merits of Warne and Muralitharan. One has a classic legal, leg break action the other has an abnormal and, as has been found in the past an extremely suspect action.
Complain about this postthe only reason why people are sayin warne is better than murali is because of his colour, if Murali was white he wouldnt get all that nonsense about his action. People like Darrel Hair are a disgrace to the game, he was the only umpire that criticised murali, and wasnt he the same umpire who falsely accused Inzamam Ul Huq with ball tampering! And then went on 2 bribe the ICC!!! Put it this way at least Murali didnt take performance enhancing drugs to keep him in the game unlike warne himself...now come on that should tell you who's better! Murali u are the greatest...warne cant even turn the ball on glass! People in the UK havent seen much of murali compared to warne, so therefore people in the UK are obviusly going to say warne is better!
Complain about this postIts a pointless argument whatever the ICC say Murali chucks, maybe not every ball but a lot, if he was English or Austrailian he would not ahve got through the system bowling like that. While Murali seems like a lovely bloke and his stats are impressive Warne bowls with a pure action and has more in his armoury then progidous turn and a doosra. I suspect many sri lankan fans will rant at me for these comments, but i suspect that the only reason he was allowed to keep playing was to maintain sri lankan as a force in test cricket. Without him they would not be capable of winning test matches as often as they do.
And before anyone says that they've seen him bowl with a brace on preventing his arm from bending or that its been proven that hes doesnt throw. I'm not saying he cant bowl properly just that he doesnt all the time in matches.
Complain about this postIt's Warney all the way - no contest!
What the stats don't show is how many of Muralitharan's wickets come from Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. If Warne had had that many matches against those teams (on subcontinent wickets) he'd be miles ahead.
Complain about this postME!!!!!
Complain about this postI can't believe people here are still questioning Murali's action. Actually, I can. You're probably all TalkSport listeners who think that anyone born south of the equator should be serving you tea whilst addressing you as Sahib.
His action has been cleared by experts not blokes in a pub who 'know' what they're talking about. Listen to real cricket people speak and they are in the main happy with the outcome of the enquiry into Murali's action.
If Steve Waugh can describe him as the 'Don Bradman of bowling' then the rantings of a few tossers (like that one?) are irrelevant; unless Waugh thought that Bradmans batting stance was illegal.
Complain about this postOn their day, either could bowl the whole england team out! Warne's most famous bowl (to gats) was amazing. Warne can bat well too. If England had one of these two we could challenge for the world cup. Is it me or do sri lanka get away with quite a lot. Murali and Malinga both bowl weirdly. But for me, Warne is better.
Complain about this postIt's got to be Murali, and I can't believe there are idiots on here questioning the legality of his action, he has been constantly been cleared and I would implore any of the people who say that throwing the ball helps your spin to try and imitate Murali. It is impossible and you will injure your arm within two deliveries. The statistics show Murali is superior, and also Warne has got a lot of wickets against England, they probably are the easiest team to bowl spin to. Just look at their spinners, Russel Arnold and Dilshan could probably get more turn than Panesar and Giles, and fine Murali has played more against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh but in truth they would fair better against spin than England would.
Complain about this postWarne and Murali are two bowlers of different styles - why should anyone have to choose between two greats, we should feel lucky that we have had the chance to watch these master practicioners of their art, just as there was the 'fast' era before them.
Both players, as well as other new masters like Vettori (and potentially Panesar too, but he is still learning the trade), have made wonderful contributions to reinvigorate spin-bowling and are proving that it is exciting to watch as well as being a valuable and necessary tool in the make-up of all bowling attacks.
We must remember that before Warne burst onto the scene with THAT dismissal of Gatting, Leg-spin was a lost art confined either to a defensive role or a derided method for bowlers from lesser-developed areas who were able to prosper on poorer pitches.
The rise of spin has coincided with the fall of WIndies as a force, which profited from its unusually potent generation of pace attack. It remains painfully odd to watch them try (and fail) to rediscover the benefits of aggressive high-quality attacking spin.
Perhaps it answers the question why Windies appear to be also-rans in this tournament as they attempted to extend the period of domination by over-preponderance on Curtly and Courtney instead of mastering the full spectrum of skills available...
Just goes to show that the groundstaff are really in charge of the outcome (surely Hadlee's reputation is enhanced by the famously favorable green county wickets at Trent Bridge), and how percieved success, winning and commercial appeal are all intertwined.
Complain about this postMurali is the best in comparison but Shane, McGrath and Murali are all exceptional bowlers...
Well, I do not understand why post a comment...BBC must have a gallop poll... I really do not like to undermine one over the other...
Complain about this postThis is a uk forum so obviously they are gonna say warne cuz they got beaten badly by australia.
If they go around the world and ask the same question most people will say Murali, it was even backed by Wisden 100. Murali by far a better bowler and has better stats.
Murali comes on top for me.
Complain about this postWarne took drugs and was banned for it.
He also was never successful in India - he got to play enough tests there, but look at his average ~47 per wicket. Doesn't help that he played Sidhu, Tendulkar and Laxman at the top of their games there though.
I think Murali has been tested and cleared enough times for him to feel aggrieved at the persistent chants of "no-ball". The only way for the ICC to settle the debate is to devise a way to examine actions in real time (i.e. during an international match); that's the most scientific way to catch someone contravening rules; but until they do that, you can't blame Murali. After all if seeing was believing at all times, there would be no quantum mechanics! Even Holding said he was convinced at the detailed analysis that shows that even bowlers with actions that are squeaky-clean to the naked eye bend their arms to a greater degree than allowed by the previous ICC bowling rules. And I would not take Bishen Bedi seriously - he is a bitter old man and the Murali issue is only one of many he gripes about.
Complain about this postAll that said, who would I turn to to deliver on the big occasion? I would go for Warne over Murali. He has done it on more occasions (world cup semi-finals and finals).
Complain about this postAny cricketer of any level who has at some stage endeavoured to bowl a couple of leg-breaks in the nets could answer the question as to which of these bowlers is the greatest.
Hmmm, the difference was explained well in something i heard the other day. Warne is very much an archetypal leg spinner. Most people could go and try and copy what he does, and with enough perspiration and practice eventually get quite close. Murali uses his natural gifts to bowl in an almost unique, uncopiable way, spinning almost from the shoulder.
Who is better? Well Murali has bowled far more in favourable conditions in the sub continent, but both are truly great spinners because they can bowl out a team in traditionally unfavourable condidtions. I would pick Murali as just marginally a better bowler, but would also acknowledge Warne's role in revitalising spin bowling outside of the sub continent.
Complain about this postMuralitharan is undoubtedly the best spin bowler. Not only is he amazing and forever bamboozling his opponents, but he is a gentleman having to deal with all the accusation and taunts he has had to deal with. Warne may be tactical and is great in his own right, but stands far behind Murali in all respects, except in being a shady character (prostitutes and diuretics ring any bells?). I am awaiting Muralitharan's 1000th wicket, hopefully not against England!
KP
Complain about this postMURALI OR SHANE, I'LL SAY BOTH. AND PLZ STOP MENTIONING MURALI AS A CHUCKER, CAUSE THESE WERE CALCULATED BLAMES ON HIM,THE REASON I SAY CALCULATED, SO WHEN EVER THE QUESTION COMES OF WHO IS GREAT, SO CALLED MASTERS CAN SAY THAT OH HE WAS BLAMED FOR CHUCKING.
Complain about this postWarne - for a couple of reasons that have already been highlighted by others. Firstly, Murali's bent-elbow action aids an off-spinner (but wouldn't really aid a leggy). The ICC have ruled that as long as the elbow isn't straightened, it doesn't matter but this is bio-mechanical nonsense. The extra force comes from pronation, which is rotation of the forearm about the axis of the upper arm. This greatly increases the acceleration of the index finger against the side of the ball, imparting more spin if directed appropriately. (It can also be used to generate more pace, e.g. Jermaine Lawson.) Secondly, Murali had the benefit of spin-friendly home wickets and lack of other realistic bowling threat.
Complain about this postAdnan,
You pointed out that the pitches on the subcontinent are good for spin bowling, yet did not take the next logical step: Murali has better stats because he has played more on spinning wickets than has Warne.
And while I agree that your two candidates are great bowlers, we are also prone to forget the past. Were there not any spinners in the past who approached these two? What about Abdul Qadir or other names from the past? Surely there is someone who was held in the same high esteem in their day as are Warne and Murali now. But hey, if your aim was to get a conversation going, you certainly did it.
Nikhil
Complain about this postI think Adnan Nawaz has lost his mind, he is comparing apples and oranges and he has picked a controversial topic to have endless and pointless stream of responses to this silly blog. Shame on you !
If I had to compare..these players are number one for these reasons..
Shane Warne (for reviving and innovating the art of leg spin, great all round performances and making sure Australia stays number one in the world).
Murali (for his excellent performances against formidable oppositions including challenging Australia, also for being a true gentleman away from all the controversies and for all his magical variations that mesmerize the top batsmen even today).
Abdul Qadir (The most entertaining ever, True legend of the leg spin, the one who basically revived leg spin in the 80's, shane warne back in the early 90's actually met Abdul Qadir to learn a thing or two from the true master of leg spin).
Complain about this postIts all in the big games and on the largest stages, watched by the loudest crowds for the highest stakes.
Men that can assert themselves on a wicket of dreams while their lives fall apart around them. Bedevilled by drugs, booze, women and marriage..!?, and still, single handedly win a match, long lost by the reckless and the brave will always be the greater.
Time will show show us new heroes and the records will show statistics from god, but they cannot tell the story of men that dismantle batsman while the field and spectators alike stare agog.
Warne was unplayable with deep guts and rude skill. His slight of hand with its roll of the wrist, a dragging of the seam; fingers imparting deft spin from an action that can only be viewed in slow motion to witness its feline brutality. He did it in the big games to men that I wanted to be.
I have'nt seen enough of Murali to say the same.
Complain about this postMurali
Complain about this postI'd love to say Paul Adams. But you've got to admit, Muralidharan is superior. Ofcourse the Aussies in here will drag out Muralidharan's unorthodox action. Besides, off spin is much more difficult to bowl than leg spin - because off-spin is defensive bowling, and off spinners normally get hammered. Well, the figures and science speaks - muralidharan is superior.
Complain about this postPersonally I can't go past Warne. Muralitharan is excellent but comparing their figures seems unjust when Murali took 137 of his wickets at about an average of 14 against B grade sides. Performances against 'A' grade sides (if we can lable capable test nations as so) and you see their averages are similar. Murali did have the great advantage of playing on spinning pitches. Furthermore when Shane Warne came on the scene it was quite a few years before Australia was No.1, and his figures were never the less superb. Maybe the one blowout of Shane's career was going to India twice with injury...but one bowler standout clearly if you eliminate a lot of rubbish in the statistics.
Complain about this postBOth have valid arguements to support but personally i would go for warne, but a close call, o
Complain about this postharsh calling hima drugs cheat was he not banned for canabis abuse hardly perfromance enhancing.
Muralis action is legal face facts, may look odd but its ok
and Julian post 3 didi you read the article, i hardly think the author was belittleing Hadlee, he classified the belittling as heresy strong support indeed, personally i think Hadlee is overated as a bowler, more of an allrounder i would say
And Bradman not the greatest ever batsman please there is no question, i woul;d happily place money even against Marshall, holding , garner et al he would have held his own, and for an englishman to praise an Aussie hard work indeed.
But back to the point Warne has to be the best cause he plays for Hants
Warney by a country mile. Simply the greatest. A huge variety of deliveries and different spin combinations make him lethal even today. Unlike Murali he hasnt played most of his cricket in the sub continent on pitches prime for spinners. And as for Murali's action, just look at the picture in the artcicle, a chucker!
Complain about this postWarne is a genius. but even barring his misbehaviors and drug use, Muralidaran is slightly better. His statistics are significantly better also. Especially in the one day game. Don't bother moaning and groaning about his bowling action - It's been validated by Cricket experts AND big-shots from AUSTRALIAN UNIVERSITIES - So if you have a problem, ask your Universities, not us.
Besides, Warne had the luxury of playing in the best side of his decade with a load of quality Australian bowlers to support and enhance his game. Muralidaran didn't - he had to carry the Sri Lankan team's bowling single-handedly, and it is still pretty much a vunerable ONE MAN SHOW.
English players have historically gotten massacred by Warne. So obviously they are going say Warne is the best, because otherwise their team ends up looking really bad and club cricketish - which is not that far away from the truth. Oooops.
Anyway,
BEST FAST BOWLER:- ALLAN DONALD
Complain about this postBEST KEEPER:- Not sure
BEST BATSMEN:- BRIAN LARA
BEST FIELDER:- JONTY RHODES
BEST CAPTAIN:- STEVE WAUGH
BEST FATTY:- INZAMAM-AL-FATTY
BEST DIRTY-MOUTH(Racism included):- GLENN MCGRATH, with DARREN LEIGHMAN coming close behind.
I choose Murali because he is the better bowler with a higher strike rate and most importantly - he ( Murali ) is a good sportsman with a smile on his face and lacks the arrogance and lack of tact /manners on the field that Shane Warne exudes. Murali is a true sportasman from all aspects of sportsmanship.
Happy Birthday Murali and keep up the good bowling and cricket !
Complain about this postBoth Murali and Warne are the best spinners in the Cricket history.
But if we look at stats, Murali is leading and still in good form.
No doubt Murali is the Best!!!!!!
Complain about this post
Complain about this postBoth players are fantastic ~ why couldn't they both have been English :(
warne is obviously superior....having spent the majority of his career against competent opposition...
how many wickets has murali taken against the minnows of cricket, bangladesh etc...
make the comparison consistent before suggesting any comparison.
Complain about this postMost people on here are either from England or Australia .. both will always pick Warne over Murali because (i). Aussies by default (duh!), (ii). English because Warne has traumatised them so much over the years.
People who discredit Murali because of his action should automatically be thrown out of the count, they don't have half a brain and will probably lap up sand thinking it was water if lost at a desert (mirage / optical illusion!!).
For those of you saying that Warne would've had 1000+ wicket in subcontinent, check his stats playing in subcontinent vs in England or Australia. Legspinners prefer faster and bouncier tracks to get wickets, not slow and low like subcontinent!
Finally, Steve Waugh, Kevin Pietersen, Yuvraj Singh and Mohammad Yousuf have all said Murali is harder to face than Warne and given their experience of actually having faced Warne than the armchair experts (/idiots) here, I'll take their word for it.
Complain about this postYou cant not think Murali's action is illegal, there's no argument. It's been tested and it's legal, get over it.
I would pick Warne in my line up just because of his effect on the opposition as well as his team mates. He just has that aura that makes people want to play for him and play with him. And just ask Darryll Cullinan, people dont want to bat against him.
One quote sticks with me from Warne as well, "Never, ever, ever, ever give up" It just shows the spirit he plays the game.
Complain about this postLOL
Complain about this postALL YOU PEOPLE WHO SAYING MULIS ACTION!
WELL HE IS ASIAN, AND DEFINITELY A GOOD ASIAN BOWLER WILL ALWAYS TRY TO BE DEGRADED BY THE ICC.
WELL IN MY OPINION, WARNE IS THE BEST, BUT MURLI IS NOT FAR BEHIND!
warne and murali are the best and that is the end of the story. i personally think warne is better but am also an avid supporter of the ''Wizard'', but when people slag him off because of his action it really annoys me. Are these trained biomechanists, experts in human physiology, perahaps they have a MD in human mechanics ?! No well then those people are either foolish, ignorant or just jump on the bandwagon, plus it always seems to be the non Asian teams speaking up, murali has tormented india and pakistan who are hopeless against spin (and i am a pakistan fan, yes i can face up to reality) but we never question his action, we admit we have been outclassed. As for inspiration and entertainment well warne wins because of his ridiculous and excessive appealing but murali is for the innocent, he doesn't throw a strop and always has a smile plus keeps his thoughts to himself generally and he has been a hell of a lot more than warne.
By the way this cheating of asian heroes is really annoying me; a perfect example of english hypocrisy was very recent when Robert Key;former england batsman was actually caught tampering with the ball with sandpaper!! now that is evidence, indians and pakistanis are accused with no evidence ,and what have Kent done about it; nothing of course it was ''formal practice'' apparently; it would have been ugly if a pakistani was caught doing it!!!
Complain about this postIf you look at Murali's record he has taken 60% of his wickets at home and of the 674 Test victims he currently has 137 have come against Zimbabwe (87) and Bangladesh (50). Warne in comparison has a very near 50/50 home away record and of his 708 wickets only 17 have come against Bangladesh (11) and Zimbabwe (6). That puts a more accurate version of the statistics. Both fine bowlers but Warne is the man you'd want bowling for your life.
Complain about this postCan you please state to a lot of pople there is no law in cricket that states you cannot bowl witha bent elbow!
You are only NOT allowed to strighten your elbow at point of delivery!!!!
Alot of armchair viewers dont seem to know the laws of cricket
Complain about this postmmm..
Did Sharne Warne get banned from cricket for something..
Did Murali ever get banned for his actions ?
I will pick the bowler who has been deemed legal by th ecricketing authorities any day..
Complain about this postmurali is the best and he would stay that way.
Complain about this postThe proof of the pudding is yet to come when SL plays Aus. in the world cup in a few days to come.
If we beat them, then that's all there is to it ?
Warne everyday of the week. Pure class act while Murali simply isn't. Australia recently tonked Murali for over 90 runs in a one-day game, would that have happened to Warne?
Complain about this postWarne gets the nod for me because all of Murali's wickets have come from no-balls.
Complain about this postTotally agree with Karl...
Complain about this postThe only reason Murali is arond is that the ICC was afraid of a racial war after Murali was called (and rightly so) for chucking early in his career...It's an indictment on the game that he will soon become the leading wicket taker in history without having bowled a legal delivery..
What a disgrace that the ICC changed the laws of the game to allow him to legally bowl...
Just goes to show the "Sub-Continental" influence on the game of cricket...The ICC should be the ICC of the subcontinent..!
and I'm Indian..!
Warne for me gets it he was a key man for australia in tests and one day internationals. He made an impact on cricket on his first ever ball and that is an achievment. He was also a vital key player in the field.
Complain about this postI have met both of them and have to say that although both are world class cricketers and arguably the best two spin bowlers the cricketing world has ever seen it's Muralitharan who gets my vote...its something to do with being humble in greatness...
Complain about this postYou can throw the ball now in cricket, because of this mess.
Complain about this postThere is one stat that people should look at.
Murali vs Bangladesh - 6 tests , 50 wickets
vs Zimbabwe -14 tests , 87 wickets
Warne vs Bangladesh - 2 tests , 11 wickets
vs Zimbabwe - 1 test , 6 wickets
Murali in my opinion has got cheap wickets against these 2 test minnows while Warne has bowled on less spin friendly wickets. Also Warne has hardly bowled in the first innings and got most wickets in the second. Warne is the best spin bowler to ever play no matter how many wickets and better stats Murali has.
Complain about this postI once saw West Indies play A country Victorian side in Wangaratta and Warnie walked passed and when we said "Hi" he acknowldeged us with a nice answer. Is it true Shane Warne is doing a Michael Jordan and actually plans on making a comeback in a few years?
Who is the greatest? I've seen Both at the MCG and on that track only Warne delivered.
Who is the greatest? To answer that you need to answer the question: In Test Matches and ODI's where does Australia Rank, and where does Lanka Rank? Shane Warne had Englishman quaking in their boots for over a decade. One ball and devestation. Has anyone else ever done that?
Enough!
Complain about this postOnly major difference is Murali is blessed with abnormality, I mean birth defect on his hand and now days he is using it in his favor lot more. Sahne Warne is great
Complain about this postMany honest people think Murali is chucking since they do not know the rules. If they knew they would change their views.
Yes...Murali bowl with a bent arm.
Yes...it is legal.
What is not legal is straightening of the arm. Which he was tested many times and found to be less than many other bowlers.
ICC do not want to test other bowlers since experts have told them that almost all bowlers styraigten their arms.
Complain about this postBoth great bowlers but you need to look at who the wickets are taken against. Take out wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh and then do the comparison.
Complain about this postBrian Lara who knows a bit about playing spin bowling has gone on record saying Murali is the best whilst Kevin Pietersen too has opted for Murali. Sri Lanka over the last decade and half has played less than 10 test matches in England and Murali has twice decimated them in ENgland. So much for helpful conditions in the sub-continent!. Had he played as many matches in England as Warne I don't think that many would select Warne ahead of Murali. Pepole speak of the ball of the century as it took place in England. What many have not seen was a ball even better bowled by Murali to an Indian Left Hand opener which pitched well outside the leg stump and hit the off stump. For me that was the ball of the century. Lots of people talk about his action whilst not acknowledging that he has been cleared on so many instances when checked by the use of technology. I know that there are people who when it suits them decry technology. For me if Murali had a white skin many of those who selected Warne ahead would reverse their selection of Warne ahead of Murali. I know this will bring about a huge cry amongst several Englishmen and Australians but for me its is a fact. It is more to do with the colour of the skin than his action!
Complain about this postIt is obviously Murali. People claim that Murali had the advantages of pitches, having non bowlers around him.
Listen, Murali has to dry the run rate and also get wickets whereas Warney was lucky that other bolwers dried the runs, he was albe to get wickets.
If Murali is successful because of pitches, why wasn't Warney successful in India? Harbajan singh beat him right and left in India few years back?? forgot??
Complain about this postClearly some sort of weighting system is required in an analysis, working out an average number of wickets/match for home pitches, and away pitches, against each other test playing nation. Then divide the number of wickets by something like five for wickets taken against sdes such as Bangladesh, or Zimbabwe after the political difficulties caused ther side to go to pieces, by something like three against such sides of dubious skills such as England or South Africa during the period when Hansie Cronje may or may not have been throwing matches, and add all the averages up, to see who has the better total. Obviously Muralitharan will have a slight advantage in his favour, in that Shane Warne will never have been able to play against a consistently god side such as Australia (Just wait until he's spent enough years playing for Hampshire and living in England to complete his masterplan to qualify to play for England, though, an drag them out of the dark ages!) but IF Warne is a better bowler, then he ought to still come out on top, anyway.
For those who say that Muralitharan has had to 'carry the Sri Lankan attack', I thought that there were a couple of other goods Sri lankan bowlers around- people such as Malinga and Vaas... for a start. In fact the latter almost won Sri lanka the S8 game against South Africa, long after Muralitharan was bowled out.
I have a vague notion that Muralitharan has played county cricket in England for at least one season- I think he may have played fo Lancashire. I'm not sure if Warne played for Hampshire that year, but if he did, then someone ought to be able to look up the figures in Wisden and see how they compared.
Which of the two is a better bowler? I have no idea. I seem to recall Muralitharan savaging an England side (at the Oval, I think) one year when Graham Hick and John Crawley were playing for England I think, after the Sri Lankans had batted their way out of trouble and piled up such a huge number of runs that England cracked under the pressure. I also remember that Shane Warne rather more recently said in Adelaide to his Aussie team-mates, 'don't worry chaps, I believe that we can win this still' (or words to that effect) after Pietersen and Collingwood had an enormous partnership, Flintoff declared (the foolish man) and Australia were only a little way behind on first innings thanks to an Ashley Giles 'special' drop of someone like Ponting. Loh, the Aussies, inspired by the talismanic bowler, came out to bowl, they blasted the English second innings to rubble, and it turned out to become true!
I am hoping to see Shane Warne when Hampshire come to Edgbaston this year, since the prospect of Warne (Hampshire) vs Jayasuria Warwickshire) is on the cards unless I have my Sri Lankan batsmen mixed up.
Charles Evans
Complain about this postIf Murali bowled at spinner friendly pitches often, Warner bowled at people who don't have a clue about playing spinners? And if you talk bout the the picthes in subcontinent, they are more batsman-friendly than the rest.
Just stick to stats - That's what they are for.
Complain about this postBest Bowler......Courtney Walsh
Best Batsman.....Brian Lara
Best is achieved against all including the best opponents....
Complain about this postFurther to my previous post, I need to clarify that pronation of the forearm is coupled with internal rotation of the humerus to produce a throw-type action. Up-to-date information on the relevant biomechanics can be found by googling "Biomechanics of illegal bowling" and reading the article by Ferdinands. I found the article to be a very informative summary of the history of the issue, and Figure 9 of the article illustrates the benefit derived from internal rotation of the humerus. This also explains why straightening of the arm during delivery is an inadequate criterion.
Complain about this postthis is ridicules,
Complain about this postno one acknowledges the genius of murali. apparently no one who is not english or Australian can be an outstanding cricketer.
every time his bowling action is being brought into the debate..... i say enough already. i am not sri lankan, but if i were i would be very annoyed how the icc and the cricketing world in general have tried to bring murali into miss-credit. He has been cleared of chucking again and again....enough is enough it is just people who are jealous of his genius that still bring up those claims. plus judging on character murali wins hands down against shane warne.
Both are great bawlers and both compliment each other and are good friends now.
Warne had something to explain about his behaviour where as Murali is a sober one & down to earth boy from next door. Part of low quality Ausis crowed, Emerson, Hair and media made Murali the greatest bawler on the earth now and also helped Sri Lankan to win the world cup in 1996. In the mid 90s they were no where and only taken to fill numbers. But now they pose the biggest challenge to Australia. The Austrian team knows about it and are scared to face Sri Lankan.
Warne, after the Tsunami, offered help to build Galle stadium & Sri Lanka and he made lot of friends in Sri Lanka including Arjuna, Murali and other cricketers.
After the match SL against Australia on Monday the 16 April, if Malinga plays, I expect Ausis media will find a reason to discredit his bawling action. If there was no Jeff Thomson earlier Ausis would have already stirred a similar drama like they did to Murali in the early 90s. They are very good in trying to demoralise someone who are much better & above of their players. It will be good to do that because SL will then determine to take reven in winning against Australia.
Murali does not care a cent on what Ausis or any others say and he replies them with taking wicket.
Complain about this postFor all those who have not voted for Murali because of his action I believe you are confronting the wrong question. The same applies for all those who won't go along with Warne because of his drugs ban. Murali's action has undergone intense scrutiny, and under the laws of the game he's been cleared - end of story. If a goal isn't allowed in a football match it will be discussed in the pub at the end of the day, and in cases of particular controversy it may last out the week, but beyond that when you look in the stats cloumn in years to come, unless the referee disallows it, then it's not a goal, so as far as Murali is concerned, no point banging on about his action as it's been declared legal, so his record stands. However, the particularly relivant point of the standard of his oppositions has been raised, and over 100 wickets more than Warne have been taken in games against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh. As far as Warne's doping ban is concerned, it deprived cricket of one of its greats for a year, and in the long run statistically that will be punishment enough for the Aussie. All of this "drugs have no place in sport" nonsense is the most naive prattle I've heard in ages. The majority of modern sports men and women will have at some stage dabbled in illicit substances to improve their performance because it's available, and there is no proof to what Warne was actually taking. Whatever it was, it was unlikely to be "performance enhancing" in such a way as to make Warne take more wickets, but rather to restore his fitness quicker than would have been normal for someone in his position.
Complain about this postFrance's football team were doped up to the eyeballs at the 98 and 06 World Cups, and yet this is continually swept under the carpet.
Returning to the question in hand, how very BBC to sit on the fence about the main crux of the article - not wanting to alienate anyone it's another typically wishy-washy attempt at journalism that provokes debate that the journalist himslef should be confronting. Who's the better bowler - Warne - there is no contest. He has changed the shape of series with both bat and ball on a far more consistent basis than Murali - the Sri Lankan might be a good bloke, and more pleasant chap to get along with, but when was that important in sport?
Warne has never been accused of chucking
Complain about this postMurali has an action that looks very dodgy!
But he has been investigated by the powers to be and it has been decided that his action is acceptable. That is the end of it as far as I am concerned.
However, Warne was found guilty, and yet most people here seem to turn a blind eye.
They are/were both great bowlers, very exciting to watch, and they lit up the world of test cricket.
The best? I would give it to MM by a nose. Of course, he has not yet retired; how many wickets is he going to get in the Test Arena? I am going to guess around 900!
Another question; if MM gets 900 wickets, will that figure EVER be broken?
Complain about this postThere is one obvious answer. They are both number 1, and your obsession with "one of them better than the other" is frankly absurd.
Their contributions are magical, and we are here discussing different kinds of magic and not one kind superior to another
So my winner is Shane Murali. he is the best
Complain about this post
Complain about this postThere is no question that the quality of these 2 bowlers is brilliant. Both match winners who there captain can have faith in them getting wickets. A good spinner is someone every team would want and at least now england have a up and coming bowler panersar that could do well. But i think that murali is the best as i think he is so hard to pick with his different balls.
how is there any question????
Shane Warne is unddeniably the greater cricketer of the two and i feel so upset for him that murali will beat his record. The SL boys play far easier opponents on a regular basis, and he only has as much wickets as he does because no one from SL can get wickets (until now of course with Mulinga).
WHY?
The reason Warne is so great is he can bat when needed to, he can catch better than many i've seen and he can bowl. How many people can bowl as well as he does and catch in slips as good as he does, let alone swing a bat when needed..... Everyone in England see's Murali as great... why? The guy can't catch, can't field and sure as hell can't bat.... and he's a questionable bowler! There is no debate on this one... just look at history... who wins more Aus or SL.....
Warne to KO Murali in ROUND 1
Complain about this post"I presume most of you will agree that these are the two main contenders for that particular title, and while there may be others, surely none come close enough to the two spin kings of the modern game........"
If you truly believe that, then your knowledge and love of the game is sadly lacking I'm afraid.
Like it or not, cricket is a game of statistics and Jim Laker stands out above the rest as the greatest TEST spinner of all time, while the 1st class crown goes to the legendary AP "Tich" Freeman, of Kent and England.
Complain about this postI can see how and where this is heading!!!!
I humbly ask western world to have a proper look at Murali's case, he been battered by Austrailian (including Auzzi Priminister!!!!), so there is no doubt that Murali is a huge threat to Auzzi, Eng, SA, NZ????and they dont want him to be the world greates bowler!!!!,
who made all the accusations?????Aussi & English????lol,
If the Asian cricketer come up with talent,,,Either Aussi or English will oppose it???? this is how Murali got problems, but he has been cleared by the ICC and Australian investigators, but still, they dont want him to play!!!!
I wonder what if Murali was an English or Aussi???
Complain about this postJohn #124, you cannot stop people accusing you but then if you are cleared then that accusation is baseless. Murali was accused but then cleared and so what is the problem? But there is a difference when one is actually accused and then found guilty.
Complain about this postShane warne is greater as when you saw him come on to bowl and you were down the over end you would be very worried. He can also bat better
Complain about this postThere are many who question the legality of Murali's action & the behaviour of Shane Keith Warne ( on and off field activities). Murali's action has been reviewed and cleared many a time, Warne did take a banned substance and used it to reduce weight which in turn enhances performance (time as well as physical condition). In my opinion warne should have been banned for 2 years minimum, which would have closed all arguments about who is better or greater or winner etc...
Complain about this postNo doubt Warne was a great bowler and had control & accuracy.Mere presence at the bowling crease would send jitters to the batsman. However, he had the advantage, right through out ,playing for a Champion side. I am sure if he had to play say the pre Allan Border era ( Kim Hughes time) the data what we read today would be different. The initial damage was done by the pacies (Mc Grath, Lee, Gillespie, Highes etc....) Warne had to just drive the advantage home. This one factor is good enough to judge who is better and Muttiah Muralidharan always bowled under presure or say damage control, of course this enabled him to bowl more number of balls (almost 45% of the deliveries in a match).
Statistics are clearly in favour of Mr.Murali.
The biggest criticism is that Murali got many wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, it's not his problem if Cricket Australia chose not to play these teams. On the other hand Warne got many or majority of his wickets against England, we all know the quality of Batsmen England has produced in this era who cuould play spin. If one looks at the statistics of Warne and Murali against England, one need not waste time reading much.Though the number of matches against England is much lesser for Murali, wickets per match is greater.
Indians are considered the best players of spin and here too Murali is well ahead of Mr.Warne.
In my opinion there is NO comparison here, one can only compare if there are things that are similiar. Muralidharan is way way ahead of Warne and while recognizing Warne's performance I'm sorry to state that Warne will be a poor second to Murali not even close. 2 more years from now when you see further data Warne will look like a drop in the ocean.
Edwin Deva
They have both been fantastic cricketers for their respective teams, and will always be remembered as legends of the game, but for me Murali is King.
I do agree that he has bowled on wickets much more suited to spin bowling, and Warne brings that great character to every game, but where would Sri Lanka be without Murali. Over the years he has provided world cricket with some fantastic memories, and having overcome so much criticism about the legality of his action, he has re-written so many records.
Just watching him running in to bowl, with his eyes bulging, and those fielders around the bat, will always put me on the edge of my seat.
Let's hope he can finish in style, lifting another World Cup this April!
Complain about this postits "MURALI" OF COURSE ...
coz he is a great spinner, great fielder, works with the team and a great sportsman in every aspect.
For those who still question his bowling action, "what if he was an Aussie or an English? then would you still say the same ? " .. thats it.
Complain about this postThe 100% Sure murali is the best
Complain about this postin future who never know?
of course its the smiling Kandyman from Sri-Lanka ..
Murali is the greatest spinner so far.
He is a great sportsman, brilliant fielder and also a role model for the young.
Besides, when Aussies gave him a tough time, when his bowling action was questioned, and when all the pundits critizised him, as a true LION, he faced all that with courage.
Murali and Shane became friends later when Shane helped SL after the tsunami disaster. Thats a different story.
As a sportsman and a spinner, Shane Warne is far behind him.
Complain about this postWell, neither is the greatest, in my opinion that would be laker, great for surry bowling alongside lock an equally good spinner, and superb for england against the best.
For those who keep going on about the gatting ball, look on youtube at murali to butcher i remember that as 1 of the greatest deliveries of all time. Also pmoney you dont know what your talking about, vaas has taken over 300 test wickets so some Sl can bowl, how many english men have taken over 300? Murali did play for lancashire where he was the seasons top wicket taker i believe. Taking out results aginst bagladesh etc. murali still has better averages against, england, west indies, india and south africa in terms of both wickets per game and runs per wicket.
Also the rubbish about The Don; he never faced a black bowler bt he did face harold larwood auguably 1 of the fastest bowlers of all time, without helmet, i supose Viv richards, clive loyd and sobers are also rubbish because they never faced west indian bowlers in test cricket. Sir Don is the best ever, by a mile.
Complain about this postYou must remember that Murali has a double jointed wirist, which allows him to spin the ball easier in the already easy off-spinning, rather than the harder leg-spin. Warne has been overshadowed by McGrath, Hughes and co and is only needed in the latter part of the innings, nevertheless claming the wickets of top-order batsmen. Also, Murali plays in the sub-continental pitches where even the pace bowlers get some turn, whilst Warne bowls in the pacey, bouncey Australian pitches. Murali might better Warne in the statistics but this is only because of the conditions that he plays in, and he doesn't even have a reliable bowling action. No doubt the winner of the contest is Shane Warne, he bats better, bowls better and fields better, Warnie is clearly the best spinner in the world for some time. Danish Kaneria and Anil Kumble are also sub-continental, but they bowl with an action that has never been questioned.
The Best spinners of all time:
1. Shane Warne
2. AP "Tich" Freeman
3. Jim Laker/Muttiah Muralitharan/Anil Kumble
Best bowlers of all time:
1. Shane Warne
Complain about this post2. AP "Tich" Freeman/ Glenn McGrath
3. Courtney Walsh/Wasim Akram/Anil Kumble
murali is the best
Complain about this postIts more than diificult to choose so it comes down to those little things. Warne's highlights nearly lose it for him but as I have never seen Murali bowl a bouncer of 4 steps I'm voting for Warne. Got to be one of the funniest things I've seen, batsman was absolutely astonished!
If either of them fancy turning out for my village side they are more than welcome :-) (provided the opposition don't take it upon themselves to no ball Murali - honestly - the guy has been cleared - he is great to watch, get over it. I do not just want to watch medium pace bowling - dull dull dull)
Complain about this postMurli is by far the greatest bowler of all times.
There is a general bias against him and he has suffered from baseless accusations of chucking.
People in Australia and England etc find it hard to stomach that Murli is a lot better than Warne.
Warne may be a great bowler but not a great human being and Murli is not only the greatest of all times but a nice and pleasant bloke.
Complain about this posti wan't to shane warn
Complain about this postOne Bowl & the other one is a baseball pitcher! There is no comparison..
Complain about this postWarne for me is more publicised amongst the cricketing world hence he appears to be the "spin king" to all the lay people.... in comparison its very rare to hear MURALI's name mentioned as frequently amongst the commentators and the cricket media. You also have to remember warne was banned for using illicit substances which must tarnish his name.
The statistics only point one way I understand other factors may play a part such as match-winning performances, the conditions in which they bowl, and the influence they have on their teams. BUT i'm sure they balance out warne for me is ...and always will be number two after the great MURALI.
I'm afraid facts are facts MURALI is a true legend statistics point to his name ........ i can't wait for him to overtake warnes test record ..
How can you even compare the two? there is no comparison
Complain about this postWell based on stats Warny has taken almost 200 wickets against England. Now answer this.. is England one of the top team teams in terms of performance ? especialy the last 2 decades ? They(england) got beaten by almost everybody. Ask any English fan!
One could easily square off Murali's wickets against Banagaladesh and Zimbabwe with Warny's wickets aganist the hapless poms! (No disrespect intended but facts do prove).
Over the years Sri Lanka has been lucky to get a few tests overseas (England, Australia, West Indies and South Africa) Lack of Commercial Interest I guess which is unfortunate but is a reality in this commercial world. If I remember right it is only recently (the last few years or so) that Sri Lanka got some decent tours overseas.
No one plays 5 test matches other than matches between Australia, England, South Africa and the West Indies. Even the New Zealanders complain of this.
My other question is why matches in the subcontinent is belittled ? Condition of the Pitches, the grounds, facilities (or lack of it), the heat, humudity, dust, noise, flies, and all other other tough conditions associated with "third world countries" has to endure is all part of the challenge!! To me a real super athlete or sportsman is some one who can overcome any adversities in all types of conditions.
This where I admire some of the West Indian greats of 70's & 80's they performed anywhere.
To sum up all this talk is relative.. There are so many factors involved here.
I think its unfair to rank one against the other. Both are great cricketers. Both are adored in there respective countries. So many has been inspired by their performances. Wish we have more like them from other test playing nations.
Complain about this postIt's interesting how cricket is regarded as a cerebral game yet so many people don't know the rules.
There is no rule requiring a straight arm when you bowl:
"A ball is fairly delivered in respect of the arm if, once the bowler's arm has reached the level of the shoulder in the delivery swing, the elbow joint is not straightened partially or completely from that point until the ball has left the hand."
If you have a bent arm, then according to rules that is totally legal UNLESS you then further straighten your arm. (The rules say: Don't [further] straighten your arm, NOT: do keep your arm straight)
Muralitharan's action is controversial to the extent that cricket fans don't seem to know the rules of the game.
Complain about this postWarne by a mile he does not throw the ball he was a proper spiner with a classic action and wickets to match
Complain about this postMuralitharan get my vote with introduction of"doosra". Murali also have taken more top batsmans wicket than Warne. Warne will always feature and remember for his fantastic delivery taking Gatting wicket.Both excellent spinners and fun to watch.
Complain about this postI say Murali without a shred of doubt, mainly to irritate the bitter folk out there dying to believe he is a chucker. If only we could all grow up, stop wetting the bed, and enjoy a great sportsman with a great and humble attitude.
Complain about this postPoster Jimmy Chen is widening the debate, there. I don't think that you have to go back that far in time to find enough bowlers better than Glenn Macgrath that he wouldn't be on your all-time bowlers list (I'd take Malcolm Marshall over McGrath, for example. Oh, and Micheal Holding. Ah, and Curtley Ambrose, Richard Hadlee, possibly Sean Pollock, etc).
Anyhow. For spinners, I'd have Murali over Warne, just, because his action is deemed legal. Otherwise, he wouldn't be a bowler at all, of course. Aside from his bowling, Murali is a credit to his country and the game, wheras Warne's just isn't; Murali has done more for the game.
Complain about this postWell i agree with the argument that Warne has taken his wickets surrounded by quality bowlers all taking wickets at the same time. But because Australia are a much better side they are constantly putting pressure on batsmen in terms of attacking fields to help Shane. Murali gets his fielders but nowhere near as attacking as Australia's. For me, no argument... Muralis is the best, i love watching him and watching him turn batsmen inside out!
Complain about this postMuttiah Muralitharan is better in my opinion beacuse he has more character and personality. And his stats is way more superior. And plus he is more entertaining to watch.
Complain about this postwarne is a legend, a great australian spinner, although muralithran is indeed 1 of the best pkayers around. Overall i think Warne just outnicks the Sril Lankan as he is a constant wicket taker and you can always depend on him in difficult circumstances.
Complain about this postHarry , age 11
Warne
195 against England (who can’t play spin and tremble at the mere sight of him)
103 against New Zealand (who can’t play spin)
130 against South Africa (who can’t play spin)
43 against India (who can play spin) at an average of 47.
Murali
Complain about this postPretty much the same wickets against everybody at an average that doesn’t fluctuate above 32 (against India).
Zimbabwe + Bangladesh (who aren’t bad players of spin hence Warne’s average of 27 against them) = 137 wickets, still less than the 195 Warne got against perennial failures against him England. If Warne has a bad patch all he has to do is turn up to the ashes, which happens practically every year, and his figures improve dramatically. He’s consistently played county cricket and has had every Englishman in the last decade figured out then plays a 6 match test series against them practically every year, if Murali had been able to do that his figures would be so far ahead of Warne there would be no discussion.
For those who go on about Murali’s action I’ve got one thing to say- if its so easy why don’t you copy it and see how quickly you can get 1000 wickets with it. The fact is the action was never questioned early on in his career, its only when he started taking loads of wickets and breaking records it became a problem
Now that Murali has the doosra if you ask any batsman in the world who they’d rather face- Warne (even in his prime) or Murali, I bet most would say Warne.
I have read some bigotted comments on this site , a good many who still think their white breateren are stuck in a colonial time warp.Any comment contrary to their belief gets the stock "you are just racist"reply. Time to get a grip, bigotry is a two way street. As for comment on Don Bradman , he played the greatest number of tests against England , his toughest opponent (they had a REAL side back then ) and averaged 89, his tests against the minnows were few and it was a result of that his average grows to just under 100.For the information of the gentleman who doubts his credentials against pace, his best results were against pace.Spinners like Grimmett , O'Reilly and Verity fared best. Even bodyline was only a limited success considering all the advantages the bowler had.Take out tests against minnows and Warne and Murali have similar figures. Who is better therefore becomes a matter of your bias.
Complain about this postMurli OR Warney!!!!!!!!!!
tough one. I will pick Warne, as he has revived the art of wrist spin.
Complain about this postI have no argument with Warn, he is one of the great cricketer!!!! being an Australian he got lucky with banned subsance and etc, but Murali being a Sri Lankan , suffered lot!!!
any way Murali's records will speaks for his contribution to his country and the world cricket,
Both Murali & Warn are rare breed cricketers, and match winners,
Complain about this postWarne or Bush Baby? Warne
Complain about this postSomeone noted Jimmy Chen was widening the debate and threw in Marshall,Hadlee and others.Those of us who watched the 60's would say Trueman and Davidson, if you are stats mad look at Davidson, his career finished early because he needed to look after business in a time of amateur sport, 186 test wickets at about 20 apeice, good figres vs anyone anywhere. Best left armer I ever saw, a couple of Pakistan lads of the 90's are close but not as accurate or consistently troubling.This debate is of course purely opinion and could go forever
Complain about this postI wonder how people still vote for Warne? Well his a fighting cricketer, with so much of scandals both in and out of the cricketing grounds.... I guess being a good sportsmen needs a bit of decent behavior especially when your a role model to the youngsters. SO FOR THERE I HAVE NO HESITATION IN VOTING FOR MURALI OVER warne. Murali is a cleaned cricketer. All cricketing nations must get it into their system that Murali is been cleared by the worlds cricketing body and we need to respect that and start admitting facts here... And listen to more experienced cricketers such as the former Aussie great Steve Waugh, " Murali is the balling Don Bradman"
Complain about this postJimmy #138
Best bowlers:
3. Courtney Walsh/Wasim Akram/Anil Kumble
I know Courtney has the wickets but Marshall was the pick of the WI quartet for me. He was the only one that could still make stuff happen when the wicket was flat. No way that either Walsh or Akram could be on my list ahead of Lillee, Thommo or Imran. I think I'd rather have Pollock or Hadlee in my line-up as well. And I agree with others about Qadir - a great character and exponent of leg-spin.
As for Bradman, have folks seen footage of him playing a golf ball against a water tank using a cricket stump for a bat? Fantastic hand-eye coordination and footwork - no wonder he was so good.
Complain about this postWhilst I think that the thread is fine in determining who is perceived to be a better spin bowler, it's a bit rich for this to be about the best spin bowler of all time.
It's the same with tennis. There are numerous debates about who is the GOAT, whether it's Federer or Sampras.. and yet very few people are well placed to comment, as for example, very few have seen Rod Laver, Ken Rosewall, etc etc, the impact of the pro era etc.
So.. I'd say that it's impossible to say if either Warne or Murali are the best of all time, without either awareness of the tradition of spin bowlers, or the context within which they bowled.
Other spin bowlers? Well, a few have been mentioned already, but here are a few that merit consideration:
Bill O'Reilly
Former Australian Leg Braker O’Reilly is another influential spinner in the cricket history. His bowling was little different from others spinners. He could bowl like medium pace with spinning the bowl including leg brake, off brake, googly, top spin etc. He was credited as the finest bowler ever seen by the greatest batsman in test cricket Sir Donald Bradman. He took 144 wickets in just 27 test matches in his career with an amazing average of 22.59. In his first-class career he took 774 wickets with an average of 16.60. He is the member of Australian Cricket Hall of Fame.
Lance Gibbs
This former West Indian off spinner is regarded as one the legendary figure in the test cricket. He became first spinner to achieve the prestigious 300 wicket milestone. West Indies as a team was well-known for their dangerous pace attacks in the history and their cricket pitch was also known to be the friend to the fast bowlers. Gibbs is some of those rare cricketers who could turn the attention of the cricket world for their outstanding performance in spinning the ball. In his 79 test match appearances he took 309 wickets and he also had 1024 wickets in the first-class cricket. In his life time he played for several county teams in the county cricket of England.
Bishan Singh Bedi
Bedi is another outrageous performer of test cricket who deserves to be one of the greatest ever spinner of the cricket history. In the late 60’s to late 70’s he dominated the world cricket with his off spin. His strength was variation in his deliveries which made him the leading wicket taker of his time in test cricket. In his international career he played 67 test matches for India securing 266 wickets with an average of 28.71 and his first class career ended up with taking 1560 wickets on an average of 21.69. This greatest figure in the test history helped India win in many matches. Later he became the coach of the Indian national cricket team.
Richie Benaud
This Australian cricket legend is considered as on e of the greatest cricket personalities in the world. In his career he showed all round performance in both bowling and bating. Though he has over two thousand runs in test cricket with 3 centuries and over ten thousand runs in first-class cricket 23 centuries, he was mostly known for his leg spin bowling. He could take 248 wickets in just 63 test match appearances in the test cricket. You will be in the dark if you do not get introduced with his first-class career record of 945 wickets in an average of 24.73 where he took 5 wickets for 56 times. As a captain of Australia, he was very successful with 12 win and 12 draws in return of just 4 defeats. For his benevolent presence in cricket, he was given the “Order of British Empire’ in 1961.
Bhagwat Chandrasekhar
Bhagwat Subramanya Chandrasekhar is also considered as one of the great leg spinners of all time. He was one of the pioneers of the leg spin who along with Bedi, Prasanna, Venkat dominated the cricket world in 1960’s to 1970’s. He was the great member of this famous spin quartet in the golden era of spin bowling. His googly and flipper were really something those seemed to be threats to the opposition batsmen. He had some inevitable contribution to many of his country India’s early success in the test history which involves India’s first victory in Australia. This leg spin legend played 58 matches for India taking 242 wickets in his career with the average of 29.74. He was named the Wisden cricketer of the Year in1972.
So.. are these players better than Warne or Murali? It depends on a number of things, in addition to the bowlers' relative abilities:
Did pitches offer more or less assistance to spin bowlers back then?
Were batsmen better players of spin in years gone by?
Remember that Warne (and to a degree Murali) are credited with bringing back the art of spin bowling. Think: BRINGING IT BACK! So, yes, debate as to who is better.. but whether either is the greatest of all time.. well, I don't know the answer as I don't know all of the above bowlers well enough..
Can anyone provide a coherent argument bringing the history of spin bowling into the picture?
Whether I think Warne or Murali is better? I'd say Warne, as he bowls more often on pitches providing less assistance than Murali (Chuminder has his work cut out on Sri Lankan pitches by comparison). Murali also has had more chance to get wickets as Warne has had to share the limelight with McGrath, Gillespie et al.
However, they are both world class bowlers, and certainly amongst the best bowlers of their era, if not the best. International circket will be all the poorer without Warne, and Murali when he finally retires.
Complain about this postBeyond shadow of doubt, and I cant actaully beleive I'm having to point this out, the King of Spain is the Worlds greatest bowler. No bent arm, no doping allegations just over after over of well...............you know what.
Complain about this postWarne revolutionised the game by bringing leg spin bowling back to life with those famous deliveries to Gatting, Gooch et al.
Murali revolutionised the game by getting the rules changed so that his action could be accepted.
After that
Warne is obviously possessed of some sort of SMS texting demon, and may not be the sort of gentleman you would want your attractive wife or daughter near.
Murali is obviously a kind considerate man, surprisingly humble and a complete bore into the bargain.
Complain about this postOnly one winner- Murali! Not only do the statistics back hime up, he plays the game with a wonderful aura. Shane warne, great as he was, was a man full of gamesmanship and lets face played in a pretty awesome australian side.
Complain about this postControversy with murali was only raiseed by Whingeing aussies! No other side complained.
Had Murali been born in a counntry other than Sri Lanka, such as England oir Australia, you and many others will certainly be singing his praises without qualification.
How else could you explain some of your comments? Such as:
"Murali's higher strike rate doesn't necessarily mean he's more effective, it could mean he's regularly taking the wickets of tailend batsmen in double quick time, which clearly isn't the case on any sort of regular basis, but you get my point."
Are you suggesting that Murali polished off more tailenders than regular batsmen and Warne did not?
Or is it a case of you trying to pluck hair out of an egg?
Complain about this postSir
Had Murali been born in any place other than Sri Lanka, eg Australia or England, you would be singing his praises without qualification.
Complain about this postkumble!!
Complain about this postif he had played against sri lanka india would have won!!
RH wrote: Sir
Had Murali been born in any place other than Sri Lanka, eg Australia or England, you would be singing his praises without qualification.
Complain about this postMaybe so RH. But had Murali been born anywhere other than Sri Lanka you would certainly be referring to him as a thrower without equal..
over 100 of murali's wickets are against those cricketing giants zimbabwe and bangladesh (as against about 10 for warne). in addition. murali throws(ask darryl hair!). just look at the picture in your own article. the fact that they have altered the rules to acccomodate him means nothing.
Complain about this postAdelaide Oval, 2006.
Australia vs England, 3rd test.
1999 World Cup Semi Final
Australia vs Sth Africa
Pressure makes diamonds.
Warne.
Complain about this post
Complain about this postDear Adnan
They are both great bowlers and match winners. For me Murali beats Warne primarily as lethal weapon not only when he is bowling when he is fileding for his team.
More than anything, an unassuming role model for the youngsters. He is pleasant, work with the team and behaves as a real 'Gentleman' of the game.
He has never been accused of doping; the mental agony he has endavoured against the Australian-inspired conspiracy to discredit him and came out with fkying colours.
He is in every way 'the best of the best'
Mehboob
In terms of match-winning performances, it's difficult for me to say because I simply haven't watched either of them closely enough and often enough to be able to offer an informed insight into exactly how many positive results for Australia and Sri Lanka can be directly attributed to the tweaking twins.
Complain about this postIf You don't know details don't write an article.
Murali's unique "doorsa" is one of a kind and comes with the man, Shane Warne cannot come even close. So certainly Murali is the best! Wish him a happy birthday with more "doorsas" in the comming year!
Complain about this postGunnamatta wrote
"had Murali been born anywhere other than Sri Lanka you would certainly be referring to him as a thrower without equal."
Not really. When was the last time that bwolers from the west had been called chuckers?
As I recal it really began with Charlie Griffiths being called a chucker because he was a handful.
Complain about this postI belive in terms of actual bowling Murali is superior to Warne due to the fact that no-one can play him, while Tendulkar and Pietersen have both handled Warne. However Warne should be accepted as a better all-round player for his superior fielding and batting
Complain about this postClose contest but Murali is better..... a better bowler, cricketer, sportsman and role model for youngsters.....
Not only are his statistics better, but he has won so many matches for Sri Lanka, most of them almost single handedly, whereas Warne has always had other bowlers like McGrath, Gillespie to assist and build pressure.
Both of them have performed well all over the world, apart from in India.....where although pitches are conducive to spinners, Warne has been taken apart. Murali hasn't performed well in Aus, though its hardly surprising, the way he has been treated there by umpires like Darryl Hair.
How many batsmen have dominated Murali? Its hard to think of anyone.....But the really great players have played Warne well and dominated him....Lara n Tendulkar have taken him apart.....Kallis played him very well in Aus and he was reduced to bowling legside around the wicket against Pietersen.....
Warne may be a great cricketer but great role model he is not. Personality doesn't win you cricket games. Added to that all his off-field controversies, drug bans, affairs etc, is that what you call a good role model?
It is true that Murali has a great record against minnow nations.....but he also has a great record against the big nations and against the really class players.
Both great bowlers, one a great role model.....Murali the greatest spinner/possibly bowler of all time.
Complain about this postto steve an others that lay the same old illegal action liine:
Please understand the rules of the game before you come in and make fools of yourselves.
I've said it before... murali has bowled wearing an iron brace to prove his action. the issue is not is his arm bent, it is does he EXTEND his ELBOW at the point of DELIVERY!
I can almost hear the cries of what a technicality. but before you reply to this pst maybe you ought to go outside and try to keep your elbow in a fixed position (any position you like) and go through a bowling action to see if it imparts any extra action on the ball!
I'll save you the trouble! it doesnt! muralis tremendous action comes from his rist... thats what imparts revolutions on the ball!
I for one am tired of this whole freakshow started by an over rated umpire who clearly jus enjoys the limelight! look at how he handled the england v/s pakistan match!
Complain about this postMurali is certainly funnier looking. Warne may bowl a 'googly' but look at those eyes!
Complain about this postNawaz's comparison of Murli and Warne is quite grasping. I am only intrigued by media's neglect of the Sri Lankan. See for example the BBC you are offered quite a few videos on Aussy spinners magic whereas Murli has been treated as a non-entity. If people at BBC newroom do understand who is what then they need to share spotlight accordingly.
Complain about this postOne thing that is obvious is that batsmen as well as umpires are far behind Murali in terms of innovation. Murali is a step ahead of all and that itself creates controvercy. Murali is apparently the most advanced of all. Are we going to challenge a bowler if develops a technique tomorrow to bowl at 90 mph and let the bowl spin both ways at that speed? Hair like people would definitely do.
Complain about this postNice blog Adnan.
It does annoy me how in today’s world we still have a colour bias in cricket. Near enough 90% of people complaining about Murali's action are of the same colour, no coincidence me thinks! And James (article 54) has truly nailed his colours to the mast, on the hand saying he's fed up with people using the 'race card', race is not the issue, people just use it as an excuse! Then in his final paragraph he welcomes 'apartheid' in the cricketing world! A truly shocking thing to say!
I love cricket because of its diversity, the fact that you have mixed teams up and down the country playing together as one, regardless of race, colour or creed, that is the beautiful game and long may it continue!!
Now the question, personally I agree two of the greatest ever spin bowlers. But Murali gets the vote because he has better stats, he's a gentleman and has never needed extraneous variables to enhance his game. Warne is and always will be a great but has done his reputation real harm in my eyes, taking drugs in sports is unforgivable, the two cannot and never should be allowed to coexist, that should always be the message to the kids! Sports I believe strongly should be pure. That also includes sledging and verbal abuse, in my opinion it's not needed in cricket, it takes away the beauty and spirit of the game. For me another reason why Warne is not up to Murali's level. I applaud players who beat me not abuse them; it is after all a game.
Complain about this postNumber of match winning performences? How is it possible? to get twenty oppenent's wickets? If Murali doesnot have any support from his team bowlers except Vass - this means that he has to keep on performing through out the entire match. This is not in case of Warne if he has had a bad day in the office he had others to do the job for him. This makes his job more easier than Murali. So in my opinion Murali is the better of the two. He is always remarked for his action why not Warne not getting mentioned for his alledged relationship with bookies or his doping? Does this go well with young aspirants? Is this what you mean by role model?
Complain about this postwhy is everyone bringing up murali's action? it's been gone over time and time again, and they say it's legal - accept it!
one person wrote that warne come in with 5/6 batsmen left and murali 8/9 left. what does that tell you? it tells you that warne has weaker opponents than the sri lankan. for murali to perform with top order batsmen in is much better than the near tail.
murali is also fitter, whereas warne was too fat. and taking drugs knowingly was a disgrace.
warne was a good bowler, but he wasn't as consistant. he could bowl 50 overs and not get a wicket! how good a bowler is that? that's a waste. murali is more consistant and that's why he's better. people think warne's better because they've seen him bowl more than murali. murali was so good that he could open the bowling and have them out for less than 130. i'd like to see warne try that!
Complain about this postthe top batsman in the world can pick warne (most of the time), but i think sangakkarra is the only guy that can actually pick murali because im sure KP is just guessing--pure genius.
Complain about this postThe English are some of the worst players of spin... it seems that even Bangladesh are better at that. So it is actually to Warne's benefit that he has played so many games against England (and the Ashes tend to be high-profile too gaining more attention --- i doubt if there would every be a 'ball of the century' coming out of a sri lanka-nz contest, for example).
But who are the best players? arguably India, Pakistan is up there too. Check out the comparison against those nations -- Murali wins hands-down (esp. check India stats)
(In fact, Murali has a better av. against all the nations mentioned --- see below). So, although Murali has bowled many games on conducive pitches, the batsman on these grounds have been superior players of spin.. and Murali had trumped Warne in this category.
Given that the people who have actually faced Warne/Murali have come out in favour of Murali (Mark Waugh, Steve Waugh and recently Kevin Peterson (spelling?) ) I think it is a strong case for Murali. In particular the standard arguments against Murali's stats don't hold water in my opinion by above..
WARNE
v England 36 195 23.25
v Bangladesh 2 11 27.27
v India 14 43 47.18
v Pakistan 15 90 20.17
MURALI
Complain about this postv England 13 93 19.74
v Bangladesh 6 50 12.52
v India 15 67 32.47
v Pakistan 14 79 23.31
MURALIIIII
Warne is just seen as the best because he is Austrailian and apprently the Aussies have a divine right to be the 'best'
has anyone even thought about Abdul Qadir, the creator of spin bowling?
For me, Murali kills everyone because he is an offspinner and being a successful offspinner these days is almost impossible!
Warne is overrated- end of discussion
Complain about this postPeople who claim that Muralitharan is 'chucking' or bending his arm illegally need to check their facts. They need to check the wording of the rules and they need to analyse his action to see if it is in breach of the rules.
My understanding is that Muralitharan was born with an arm condition that limits his ability to straighten his elbow. I also understand that he does not reduce the angle of his elbow through the action by more than the allowed degree. This has been repeatedly checked beyond doubt by academics and scientists.
If Muralitharan can generate more pronation of his wrist or arm because of his technique when he is not breaking any rules, the best of luck to him. The same applies to Malinga.
British coaches would have tried to standardise Muralitharan's and Malinga's techniques as kids and 'coached it out of them'! Just like in football where it was coached for decades that you should only use your instep to kick the ball. The Brazilians and others proved them so wrong.
Come on Sri Lanka and also come on Ireland against Bangladesh.
Complain about this postAbdul Qadir, was a very good spin bowler and has been mentioned by Muralitharan as one of his heroes who he used to watch.
Anyone with knowledge of cricket would know statistically comparing the two is not fair, they have both pulled out magical performances when needed for their country, but the stats wont show that, nor the comapny in which they bowled.
Why not accept that Warne is probably the greatest leg spinner we will ever see and Muralitharan the greatest off spinner. Those of you who call Murali a chucker are stupider then you appear, he has been regularily cleared by the ICC, who pointed out at one stage that the majority of bowlers bend their arms when bowling. Watch Shaun Tait?
This is just a plain old simple race equation perforated by those who actually know about cricket and accept that both are genius in their own right.
Why have the ICC if your not gonna accept their decisions. They are both legends and they would both be in my world eleven, alongside Wasim Akram and Malcom Marshall, good luck opposition ;).
Complain about this postI think Murali is a better bowler for two reasons,
(1) Firstly, the spread of Murali's wickets is even amongst all major cricket playing countries. In fact he has taken a lot more wickets against India and Pakistan, both good players of spin. Whereas Warne's wickets are highly skewed towards England and West Indies, both teams very poor players of spin bowling. This is more helped by the fact that Australia plays a 5 test series every two years against England (Ashes) and a 4/5 test series everytime it plays a series against the West Indies.
(2) Secondly, Murali has had a pretty tough career. The Australian crowds and players have played mind games and dirty politicis against him. But he has come out of it well and the ICC has cleared him.
Complain about this postMONTY MONTY :)
Complain about this postAdnan
As someone following cricket for more than 35 years and having seen the likes of Bedi,Chandra,Prasanna,Venkat-that talented Indian quartet- and also Underwood,Qadir,Mushtaq etc, I feel these two-Warney and Murali are slightly ahead of that legendary pack. My vote goes to Murali for the joy he brings to the game[as opposed to the constant appealing,gamesmanship and sledging by Warney];his mental fortitude in overcoming obstacles[all those sniggering and rude statements] and for being the main or sole wicket taking/matchwinner in his team.Many a time when Warney comes in to bowl the batsman would have been pummelled into submission by Mcgrath,Merv,Lee etc and that surely made his job that little bit easier and that's not to take anything away from the greatest leg spinner of all time!
Complain about this postOnce every generation or so a cricketer comes along that actually revolutionised the way cricket is played. It's a familar sort of line but for this generation of cricketers it is undoubtedly Warne.
In an age when spin bowling was considered to be an arcane part of the game useful only in clearing up confused tail-end batsmen Warne re-invented its usefulness and gave the art of spin a re-birth into the One-day game.
Now lets talk about statistics. Perhaps if Warne had played a third of his games against a third-rate side that is not fit for test status he might have some easier wickets to lay claim to not to mention being backed up by the most prolific fast bowler in history, Glenn McGrath and the raw pace of Brett Lee. Depth in the Australian side has been Warne's greatest enemy.
Complain about this postThey truly are greater bowlers but I consider Warne to be better.
These are my reasons, Warne has developed spin bowling but leg-spin in particular. Leg-spin was dying out after Richie Benaud retired and Warne, created so many deliveries such as the slider and probably the flipper. Warne has a wider knowledge of the game. For example he sets his own field, not many bowlers can do that. As you say Australia have had so many great pacemen over the years it has to be hard for Warney to get many wickets.
Warne, in my opinion has delivered better performances such as in the Ashes 2005 when Australia nearly beat England after having to follow-on. Only one team has won after following-on. Warne came on in like the 10th over and destroyed England even though Australia didn't win he still produced a magical performance.
Murali has the statistics but has never had a rival for his place but yet Warne has, Stuart MacGill is a good leg-spin bowler and he showed this when Warne was injured and banned from playing so I think overall Warne is better. He says every year that he has developed a new delivery in time for a match against England.
Another reason why Warne is better is because how many GREAT leg-spin bowlers have their been in cricket? Only two, Benaud and Warne because wrist spin is harder to bowl. I know I only play for under 15s but every time a pace bowler in my team tries to bowl spin it is usually off-spin which is easier, even though sometimes it is more effective off-spin is so much easier to bowl. All you need to do is put 3 fingers on the seam and turn it right to left, simple. But with leg-spin you need to move your wrist and fingers. It is so much harder to pick a leg-spin between a googly but saying this Murali's doosra is the best in the world but Warne can bowl so many more deliveries than Murali which I think makes him better than Murali.
Cheers, nice debate
Complain about this postThis is a heated debate for this era but history will reveal that Muralitharan is the best bowler, simply because he will take 1000 test wickets and no-one else will ever get even as many as Warne.
It's like looking at current batsmen and comparing them with Bradman. No-one has considered any batsman to be better than Bradman though hardly any of us have seen Bradman bat. The statistics for Bradman and Muralitharan speak for themselves.
Complain about this postThere are a number of factors to consider in making these comparisons, which I am sure have all been alluded to here already.
First - the 'chucking' accusation. It has been proven - many times - that Murali has a bent elbow and does not straighten his arm when delivering the ball. Ergo, the action is perfectly within legal boundaries. I think it is high time everyone gave up flogging this very dead horse to see Murali as the thorougbred he is.
Warne is a very fine cricketer, but his image is been irrevocably tarnished by his taking drugs. In any other sport he would have received a two-year ban at the very least, but Warne gets off relatively easily for saying that 'Mummy made me take it'. Right-o. As far as I am concerned those who take illegal substances to aid or enhance performance should be given the stiffest penalties - which should be administered by worldwide bodies and not national associations as was the case with Warne and more recently in the cases of Shoaib Akhtar and Mohammad Asif.
With regard to Murali's victims including higher numbers of 'cheaper' targets such as Bangladesh and Zimbabwe - he cannot help what opposition has been put in front of him. His duty is to bowl the best he can regardless of the quality of the opposition. It just happens to be that SL has been provided with frequent three match series against this opposition, while Australia are provided with four- and five-test series against the likes of WI and England. A fully-fit Murali has destroyed England on English pitches, and if SL had been provided with a full five-test series instead of end of season one-offs I am certain he would have bettered Warne in the statistical stakes on English pitches. To support this claim we can look at the phenomenal figures Murali achieved while playing for Lancashire, which eclipse Warne's stats in English county cricket.
And then we have the fact that Warne, as an Australian, has not had to bowl against his own batsmen who have dominated the world game during most of his career as a front-line bowler.
That said, I still think the world's best spinner is... Australian 'mystery spinner' Murray Bennett, who made such an impression in 1985 at The Oval. Hehe.
Complain about this postBoth are great bowlers and it is impossible to decide . However, we must not forget that Murali has been cleared by the ICC and by the panel of experts while Warne was suspended for taking un prescribed medicine( !) and also fined for talking with or supplying information to bookies. There is no doubt that Murali is the best person...
Complain about this postYeah, Murali has more 'cheap' wickets against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe, but he hasnt benfitted from Glen McGrath bowling at the other end.
I don't think numbers alone are enough to carry this argument. I think there is a part of the argument that is subjective. Murali has been helped by a physical abnormality, but does that make him any less a bowler? I don't think so. But then Warne's extra curricula activities or perceived arrogant attitude don't either. Both are truly amongst the games greatest bowlers, especially spin bowlers, and have both done there part to revitalise the art of spin bowling. They should both be honoured.
Complain about this postI've just finished reading Mike Atherton's autobiography and he reckons Murali was indifferent against left handers. Graham Thorpe and Brian Lara, for example, gave him a real going over.
To balance the arguement, Warney didn't seem to produce miracles on the Indian sub continent. Who would you prefer in your team in India- Warne or Bishan Bedi?
Laker, Rahmadin, Grimmett, O'Reilly etc.... I think there are other contenders for the spin king title and this article was too short sighted in not considered historical contenders.
Regards
Complain about this postVince