Woolmer loss overshadows Cup shocks
When the Jamaican Police spokesman revealed with such a matter-of-fact tone that Bob Woolmer had died through manual strangulation, everything meaningful about this World Cup perished too.
Everybody involved, be they players and coaches, journalists, administrators and spectators have been struck by the same wave of absolute horror that makes playing or, indeed, commentating on cricket seem completely pointless.
Whatever happens on the field will forever be overshadowed by Bob’s murder, and for as long as it takes the police to find the killer – or killers – the game will continue to be ripped apart by rumours of match fixing and organised crime. We must hope – for Bob’s family in particular, but also for the future of the sport – that the investigation is both rapid and successful.
The Woolmer family was quick to insist that the tournament continues and, frankly, there seemed little point in aborting it. Bob’s passion for the game has been well documented, and since the purpose of this World Cup is to reignite the spark of enthusiasm for cricket in the Caribbean, we can be sure that he would not have wanted cricket’s finest showpiece to be abandoned, whatever the circumstances.
So it is under that cloud that the tournament completed its first round, and who could possibly have forecast that both Pakistan and India would be blown out? I can’t say that I really believe it is for the good of the sport that one of its finest and most passionate contests – India against Pakistan – has now been replaced by Ireland against Bangladesh.
It is a risk you run when you have lesser teams playing amongst the best that upsets will happen. Create a mix of unpredictable pitches, white balls and only 50 overs per side and it is inevitable that a sleeping giant or two will be ambushed.
While it is always a tremendous day for the ‘minnow’, the lasting consequences for the tournament are seriously damaging, as was illustrated by Kenya’s progression to the semi-finals in South Africa last time. Those teams are simply not good enough to compete against test-class nations with the consistency required to make the World Cup the spectacle it has to be to showcase the game at its best.
The Super 8’s will be the duller and more predicable as a result of the presence of Ireland and Bangladesh, rather than India and Pakistan. Australia have strengthened their position as tournament favourites, not least because South Africa will now have to work hard to reach the semi-finals.
We will get a better indication of the West Indies’ credentials after their clash with Australia on Tuesday, while – at this stage at least – England are the longest of long shots to reach the semi-finals.
Agree entirely with the comments ref Bob Woolmer, the excitement generated by cricket is being numbed by a sense of horror and disbelief.
But England the longest of long shots? I think not, wins over Ireland and B'desh will mean they need to finish 4th out of 6 to go through rather than 4th from 8.
It is a feature of 4 yearly tournaments (as in the football World Cup) that so called "lesser" nations progress and we should now be accustomed to this. Complacency and poor planning get their rewards!
Complain about this postThe Super 8’s will be the duller and more predicable as a result of the presence of Ireland and Bangladesh, rather than India and Pakistan.
Maybe for you JA and the media, the ICC, PCB and BCCI but there are 100 million in Bangladesh and a small but very passionate cricket following in Ireland (of whom a fair few are in the Windies) who are very excited indeed. Pakistan and (probably) India will not be in the Super 8's because they were not good enough and got beaten twice in three matches - end of. Ireland and Bangladesh are there on merit and it does you no favours to be so mealy-mouthed when it comes to their qualification.
If the ICC's "masterplan" to expand the game went along the lines of "OK, let's let the "minnows" play as long as they don't beat anyone except each other." then it was flawed from the get-go. These countries have been dying for this opportunity for years. Ireland were expected to give Zimbabwe a good game and in the end should have won it. The result against Pakistan was always dependant on which Pakistan side turned up and as it turned out it was the self-destructive variant. So be it.
If you feel these countries should not be there, that is your considered opinion and you are entitled to it. However they are there by the will of the controlling authority, by qualifying and winning games against more "established" cricketing nations who were not good enough. I predict there will be a couple more shocks from the "minnows" before this tournament is over and I hope (as a Northern Irishman who was in the MCG on Boxing Day last year with 3 lions proudly on his chest) that it starts on Friday in Guyana with Ireland vs England.
Complain about this postJA...are you serious....both Pakistan and India are out the competition to their own downfall and have been outplayed in games that they should have one. Theres no one to blame here but themselves. Ireland and indeed Bangladesh have proven their worth and deserve to progress. I think their attitiude and commitment as shown on the cricket field goes to show....maybe some of the bigger nations as you mention should take a leaf out of their book.
Complain about this postI'm curious about the conditons imposed on making a comment - "Comments are moderated, and will not appear on this weblog until the author has approved them." - Does that mean it is possible for the author to stop a comment appearing if he dislikes or disagrees with the comment?
Complain about this postIt's all well and good Ireland and Bangladesh getting into the Super 8s, but as their performances against WI and SL respectively showed their earlier wins were just flukes. Bangladesh's dismal Test and ODI record shows that on average they beat a test playing team once every 2 years - barely enough to justify ODI status in the first place.
In most probability both teams will lose all their remaining games in the World Cup except for when they play each other, so effectively it is a Super Six stage like the World Cup, not a Super Eight.
Complain about this postH ave to agree with the view that the Super 8s will be more predictable with Ireland and Bangladesh through
Complain about this postThe question I pose is whether this has actually made Englands task of getting into the semis even harder? I see everyone beating Ireland and Bangladesh- but I could see eg England beating Pakistan but the Pakistanis then beating NZ and Sri Lanka
To progress England need "help " from an unlikely source in taking points off the other "big" teams and unfortunately I cant see it coming from the Irish or Bengalis
Hope I am wrong!
Oh come off it Aggers!
As Dave Hartin wrote, Bangladesh and Ireland are there on merit. Besides, cricket should not be restricted to the top 8 ranked teams, that is a very dated attitude I'm afraid. Imagine what it'll do for the game's popularity in those nations.
Also, the Indian and Pakistani teams were poor, they didn't deserve to be in the 8s. Maybe this will give them a kick up the backside.
As for Woolmer's death, it should not have the effect on the competition being discontinued.
Let's enjoy the cricket.
Complain about this postvery harsh aggers on the irish and bangladeshis who have both got their on merit and although they'l have to have the games of their lifes to get through, it is fair enough because neither pakistan or india were good enough in their group games. but fair play to you on bob woolmer, r.i.p.
i however will be supporting the irish, come on you shamrocks!!!
Complain about this postJonathon yes it is a pity that Pakistan and India have gone out because on their day then can be very entartaining sides but surely the presence of two minnows in the Super 8's is a cause for celebration at the growth of cricket in these nations where cricket isnt the number one sport.After all is cricket some "Old Boys" club that people like yourself, Mike Atherton and Michael Holding wish it to be?Well i would like to think not!!Pakistan and India are out because quite simply they under-estimated the opposition and didnt have the team spirit and yes the little bit of luck needed to win tight games,The only way that countries like Ireland and,to a lesser extent Bangladesh(as i think that they are rapidly improving), will be able to compete is to allow them to play the best countries in the world as they will learn!Unfortunatly yourself,Mike Atherton and Michael Holding all dont seem to have the patience to let these smaller nations develop and seem just ot want the "Old Boys Club" to remain and i think if that is the case then cricket will lose out...
Complain about this postI totally agree with Dave, that the suggestion that the 'minnows' should just turn up and let the 'bigger' teams beat them and they compete against each other for 3rd/4th in the group is incredibly insulting Jonathon.
Maybe Ireland v Bangladesh won't be the 'spectacle' that India v Pakistan would be but it is not as though the cricketing world doesn't see these two play each other many numerous times.
Complain about this postI agree with you Andrew. I suggest to have more games in first round in 2011 to make sure that only 1 win against test playing country or vice versa is not enough to reach super 8.
Complain about this postThe ICC ought to change the selection mode for second round---provide for 10 teams or have a challenge round after preliminary matches...
Complain about this postAny criteria that leaves two of the best teams out
of the tournament leaves a lot to be desired..
We all know that even the best teams can lose
in a one day game to the meek for reasons that have little to do with good cricket..
As it stands, the next 24 games will be played with 11 of them featuring Ireland and Bangla Desh...Good luck World Cup.
While agreeing with your general sentiments re: Bob Woolmer, I have to take exception to your condescending remarks regarding the 'lesser' nations.
England have already swiped Ireland's best player and are likely to take a few more after this World Cup. -
in what other sport could that happen? (answer: New Zealand's fruitful cherry picking in the South Seas)
Essentially you seem to be advocating the traditional "closed circuit " of cricket powers at the expense of broadening the games appeal.
Cricket, by its very nature is wide open to all sorts of abuse, If you have a game so complex that any individual player, manager or official can have a decisive say in the outcome of any given game, then you have a recipe for potential skulldudgery.
Let the ICC reflect long and hard on the issues raised by this World Cup and decide on the future of a game that has a lot of questions to answer.
Complain about this postThe problem with this competition is that the second stage is far too long compared to the first stage. The reward for winning potentially one match against one of the big boys is to play another six matches against the other big boys. Ireland v Bangladesh isn't the problem, in it fact it will be great to see if Ireland can sneak another win. Ireland v Australia or Ireland v South Africa will be the problems because I fear that they will both be very one sided tonkings. I also have a sneaky feeling that by the time the Super-eights end we will all feel (to use some boxing terminology) that we wished the referee had stopped things earlier to save them from further punishment.
Complain about this postI feel that Dave Hartin makes a fair point, the so called minnows are there because they beat Test playing nations. No one gave them their place in the Super 8's. They earned them. Whilst we are considering the minnows, perhaps we should add England to the list, after all they haven't actually won a game against a Test nation to reach the Super 8's. At least Bangladesh and Ireland have done that.
Complain about this postI agree that India angainst Pakistan could have provided an exciting spectacle. But this competition is actually a meritocracy, no one has a right to their place on the basis of their historical pedigree. You win matches, you get through. It's a competition, not a series of exhibition matches.
To me
Complain about this postPakistan and India gone, nothing is gone
Inzi gone, something is gone
Bob gone, everything is gone
Agges, I completly agree with the Woolmer comments.
But the comments on the minnows? They came to play good cricket and proceeded to put two giants out. So why should they not be there? Or, instead, why not have a 2 month world cup with only Australia playing South Africa, as no one else is good enough. that would be exciting. they could play 10 warm ups, 20 group stages, both semis and the final.
Complain about this postI agree with the first person.
Though . the format adpoted for the 92 World cup was so perfect. Deviating from that only make WC less auspicious,,, every single time.
WC is not the stage for countires to learn.
I am a pakistani and ardent fan of the sports. you like each coutiry play each other.
Make sense ???
Complain about this postI echo Dave's comments (poster no.1). Sorry if it cuts across your sense of who deserves to be in the closing stages of the tournament but as far as I can see Ireland (and Bangalsdash) are there on merit.
Kenya last time round was a different set of circumstances what with the Zimbabwe situation giving rise to byes and forfeited points. This patrician attitude of yours does not do the BBC any favours.
Complain about this posti Agree with Aggers on the format of this world cup. It is possible teams could have a bad day at the office, and witht eh unpredictable pitches, its more than likely to happen. Why was the format changed, woudnt it have been better that more games would have been played, this would have shown true class over a long period of time, and not a just bad day at the office and toy get sent home. Put it this way the world cup audience has been halfed atleast and that must be bad for the game globally.
Secondly i would like to add and im not making any excuses for pakistan but why was so much grass left on that wicket against ireland. Ive watched most if the games and the grass has been shaved off for majority of the games yet fresh grass was left on for paksitan. Also it was assumed the west indeis game against ireland would be played on similar pitch, yet on the morning the grass has been taken off. No Excuses just a bit strange, something people can think about.
Complain about this postAgree totally, on all points.
Complain about this postAll very well for all the supporters of the minnows to go on about their being "qualified" to be there. And being an Indian fan, I do consider that India deserved to be out. Pakistan? Were the y played out - or...? Questions.
But the point is, however many people may support the game in B'desh and Ireland, guess where the money comes in from?
The fans from India did not deserve their team, is all I can say.
What arrogant nonsense. The only thing keeping the World Cup alive has been the progression of Bangladesh and Ireland. It has added romance to a very predictable contest.
The events surrounding both the Pakistan and Indian exits and the corruption that affects the game there, mean that the World Cup will also be healhtier for their absence.
Complain about this postSorry Jon, but this time you have got it wrong. Before the competition all the pundits expected the top 8 sides to qualify with no difficulty. India and Pakistan have been punished for not taking the qualifying seriously and for playing badly. If England had gone out you and the other pundits would have said that we deserved it India have played poorly, except against Bermuda and Pakistan were dreadful. Why change the rules to save them from their own failings?????
As for Bob Woolmer, yes, the show must go on, but no one can convince me that the competition should not have been suspended for at least one day after his death (with the reserve days it would not have affected the schedule).
Complain about this postThere is too much one day cricket - simple as that! As one contributer pointed out, so what if we miss out on another India v Pakistan? There have been so many those (yawn!)
As with the rest of it....Australia will stroll it, New Zealand will compete but not have the depth of class, South Africa will find a way not to win and England will disappoint...
The only unknown factor is Sri Lanka...
Complain about this postUsually I have a great deal of respect for what Jonathan Agnew says, but I have found his condescending attitude towards the lesser nations in this world cup difficult to bear.
As a Brit I've been brought up with a natural love of fair play and the underdog, attitudes almost always exemplified by BBC TV and radio coverage. Have I ever heard John Motson question the right of San Marino to play in (football) world cup qualifiers? Have I ever heard Brendan Foster making fun of a Lithuanian athlete for finishing last in a Olympic 400m heat, for example? No. Why, then, must cricket be so different?
Jonathan is right that most of Ireland's Super 8 matches will be one-sided, and that we'll miss the India-Pakistan contest. But why should some of the favourites' early exits make the contest poorer? The unpredictability of the football world cup is what makes it the planet's greatest sporting event. England's footballers only got one shot at the world cup last year and they blew it. The thought that that might happen to our cricketers yesterday against Kenya is what made the game interesting.
Complain about this postAggers is not being critical of Ireland and Bang, I think we all think it's been great for cricket. All he's saying is that they won't win a game in the super 8's and that has a knock on effect on the competative nature of the final stages. Lets not take things so personally guys.
Complain about this postNot only do I agree with Aggers I can't help wondering what some late lamented commentators might have to say. Freddie Truman, Brian Johnstone, John Arlott and Jim Laker to name but a few. They must be turning in their respective graves. It just seems incredible that this should happen in any sporting code not just cricket. Natural causes yes a shock but murder; it's just incomprehensible. I'm glad the world cup is continuing not just for the sake of cricket and what would have been Bob's wishes but for the sake of sport in general and dare I say it 'normal life'? I hope it's all sorted quickly, efficiently and lets get the 'dirty money' out once and for all!
What I would give to see the Cricket world cup come home; football rugby, ladies tennis and other sports have achieved it in my life time; why not cricket and mens tennis!? Come on England!
Complain about this postNever expected to be watching Ireland v anyyone but so what ? At least we can be sure of a good laugh and if they manage to give engerland a game so much more fun for we Celts !!!
Complain about this postMinnows win games in all sports including the World Cup of Soccer. Think of the none league teams over the years that have had a good run in the FA cup for example. If India and Pakistan are out it is because of their own fallibility. I watched Ireland beat Pakistan and Ireland played like a team wanting to win. They wore their hearts on their sleeves. As for Bob Woolmer and the varied opinions surrounding his death I can only hope the perpetrators are found quickly and have no link to organized cricket. I believe the tournament must go on but perhaps the authorities should poll the remaining players.
Complain about this postPlease remember, it is the Cricket WORLD CUP and so what if the mighty Indians and the Pakistanis are out leaving sub-standard cricketing teams like England, Bangladesh and Ireland still in the super 8. What matters is that we can still watch this unpredicatable and most enjoyable game, though I would rather watch a Test match than this farce called the one day cricket not to mention 20-20(?).
It is very sad that Bob Woolmer has died in these strange circumstances and if it is murder(does it really take a week to tell a man has been strangled?), then I hope the police get the person/s who committed this crime. And talikng of match fixing, I simply do not know how a match can be fixed unless all 22 players are in on it.
As for the cup, Australia or South Africa will take it with the Sri Lankans as the close third.
Complain about this postaggers i have to say what you have said is wrong about Bangladesh and Ireland i am from england but my parent are Bangladeshi and they joy and happiness these wins have bout to Bangladesh is unbelievable they have worked hard to get where they are all the teams that get to super 8 have got there on merit and if India and Pakistanis didn't make it they didn't deserve to be there looking forward to Bangladesh v england ps hope the people who murdered bob Wilmer are brought to justice as soon as possible RIP
Complain about this postIt is sad that India and Pakistan will not be there as they both have excellent players and strong support. However it is not at sad that Ireland and Bangledesh have got through - they were given a goal and they achieved it. Well done chaps!
What is questionable is the fomat of the competition. As one of your previous correspondents has already said, it would be better to have a longer first stage which would not only be more interesting but would:
1) satisfy the associate nations' desire to play more of the top teams and hence hopefully improve their game, and
2) ensure that anomalous results don't have too much influence on the final outome.
A knock-out competition in the second stage would be interesting and still provide the opportunity for upsets but would be likely to end up with the best team winning. It would also stop teams getting to a stage where they are out of their depth and become demoralised.
Benefit of hidsight, I admit.
My sympathy to Bob's family and friends.
Complain about this post"I can’t say that I really believe it is for the good of the sport that one of its finest and most passionate contests – India against Pakistan – has now been replaced by Ireland against Bangladesh."
Complain about this postwith due respect i can not believe what i just read here!i mean why on earth it is not good for the sport that bangladesh and ireland are in super8?we all know upsets can happen in the shorter version of the game but the group matches were not knockout matches.yes,anyone with little cricket knowledge knows both pakistan and india were favorite to go a long way(definetly longer than england)but hey, they lost 2 out of their 3 matches.it didn't happen to australia because they wouln't let anything like that happen more than once.So bangladesh and ireland deserve to be where they are and it may make your job a bit dull as a journalist to cover a match between australia vs bangladesh than australia vs pakistan/india but belive me bangladesh a country of 147million people will now have more interest in the tournament than ever before and it will have even bigger effect in cricket in future.And i fail to understand how can it not be for the good of sport.Now,about kenya playing in the semi-final,if you remember, the format of super8 in the last world cup was different from this current one.it was then knockout and kenya had a good day in the field and got to semi-final.May be that's why ICC has changed the super8 format this time to stop from anything like that happening again.so you can rest assured that you will again start to enjoy the semi-final phase as just one upset will not send a "minnows" through to the next round.
the other meaning of what you said just crossed my mind. may be you are right. having lost pakistan and india does make the tournament less interesting from your viewpoint as words like "betting" and "matchfixing" won't be making any headlines.how boring is that!!!
Rubel.
Although the Bob Woolmer tragedy and the likely events surrounding it make discussion of what is actually taking place on the pitch seem superficial and even unseemly, it is hardly surprising that so many have replied to Jonathan Agnew's curious comments regarding the 'minnows'. Barry Mogg puts it well and succinctly.
Surely Aggers is forgetting what a knockout competition in any sport is all about: the possibility of 'upsets' is what makes for so much of the excitement. And isn't the whole interest of a spectator sport the fact that we don't know beforehand what the result is going to be? He would prefer, perhaps, rather than risking the chance of the 'wrong' teams winning, for all results to be decided by a team of experts (chaired by Aggers?), thus saving the need to play at all. Much fairer! As for fiddling with the competition format to ensure these embarassing and commercially damaging upsets don't occur, isn't that uncomfortably close to the 'match-fixing' we are all so concerned about?
Well done, Ireland and Bangladesh, you have added interest and excitement to the tournament! Hard luck, Pakistan and India, but that's sport.
Complain about this postAggers is spot on when he says that this world cup is ruined now, but to say the minows don't enrich the game is just plain wrong and this is one of the few chances for them to showcase their wares on the international arena.
Yes, we are going to question whether Pakistan were beaten or threw the first couple of matches now, but Ireland deserver their moment in the sun. For them it's sad there's such a question about it.
But genuine upsets do happen and that's good for the game. If India and Pakistan did get beaten by outsiders that's their problem and not the fault of the ICC.
If you exclude the associate members, then it's just another Champions Trophy and we all know how they capture the imagination of the world outside of cricket. Hell, most of the cricketing world doesn't pay that competition much more than lip service.
Complain about this postSportsweek on Radio 5 Live had a chap from the Pakistan Management team saying that the main problem nowadays was "spot betting" and that it was rife.
Apparently this involves betting on a particular incident happening during the match. Before people get too carried away blaming everything on the Indian Subcontinent I should just say that the question that immediately came to mind was just what odds I'd have been able to get before the first Ashes test on the first ball being bowled straight to Flintof at second slip.
Complain about this postyou seem to see life through rose tinted spectacles. match fixing has always been there. passions have always run high. the sub continent has always been nuts as far as cricket is concerned. it has and always will be a game - sometimes great - sometimes not - but it is always the finest game.
stoo
Complain about this postWhy are England such long shots to reach the semi-finals? Assuming they beat Bangladesh and Ireland (not a foregone conclusion - but likely), they will probably need to win two games out of four against Australia, South Africa, West Indies and Sri Lanka. Clearly they'll start those matches as second favourites, but "longest of long shots"?
Complain about this postMy cricket dreamteam is now screwed! RIP Bob, truth really is stranger than fiction.
Complain about this post"Those teams are simply not good enough to compete against test-class nations"
you are talking about India and Pakistan right?
Complain about this postThis all seems a bit near sighted, India are not yet out. Has noone learnt anything from the minnows victories?
Complain about this postWhat I find particularly distasteful is the media pack who lack the grace and respect that the occasion requires. Replacing serious investigtive journalism with a weave of mindless sound bites from meaningless tittle tattle for spooling onto 24hr news is depressing. Sky news is master of this craft. Bob Woolmer deserves better.
Complain about this postJonathan Agnew talks twaddle with regards the tournament being lesser now that India and Pakistan are replaced by Bangladesh and Ireland. If they were that good then they would have overcome their 'inferior' opponents. And as for the argument that the tournament creates only "unpredictable pitches, white balls and only 50 overs per side" then what does he want in order to make the cream rise to the top?? - predictable pitches, yellow balls and 100 overs per team??. Why aren't the smaller nations given a start of minus 30 runs to ensure the larger nations go through. Like in most cup competitions the shocks will happen but usually the cream rises to the top and Mr Agnew should remember this.
Complain about this postAnd while I would not bet money on England winning the tournament, their chances are greater than Mr Agnew would suggest. I'm sure the Australian press are supporting their team more than Mr Agnew is supporting his!! - shame on you!
I'm up for teams getting through on merit, rather than reputation.
Complain about this postWhile I agree with the comments re Bob Woolmer -may he he RIP - there is no way that I can agree with the remainder of this article.
Every dog should have its day - therefore the so called lesser sides who have qualified from the group stages deserve their chance in a knockout match. This would reduce the length of this tournament and provide much more interest than the interminable Super 8 stage which has only been created for financial reasons.
Complain about this postJust to remind people, in the warm-up game Ireland probably should have beaten South-Africa. I am not suggesting that they will find temselves in that fortunate position again in the super-8's but they certainly gave them a fright and it was a far from one-sided game.
Also I would put money on Ireland beating England. In the game in Stormont last year, a century by Trescothic helped England to a reasonable score and Ireland put on a creditable run chase.
OK so these are only two examples, but it shows that even minnows are capable of raising their game, so less of the condecension please Aggers.
Complain about this postI agree to some extent . its no more a super8 now. Better call it super6. Their r some good aspects of BD and Ireland making it to super8 but of cource for semis berth, there r only 6 candidates. One more shock or upset won't take them to the semis.
Complain about this postIts 'One day cricket' why should we play more games to give the bigger teams the chance to prevail, isnt the idea of odi's that anyone can beat anyone on their day, wasnt that supposed to make the game more exciting?
Complain about this postJon Agnew's comments on Bangladesh - putting in same category as Ireland who are a relatively new cricket nation it seems, is milseading given Bangladesh's long standing love and ability for the sport. Time will tell who the real powers in cricket will become.
Kind regards
Zahir
Complain about this postmosdiq wrote: What I find particularly distasteful is the media pack who lack the grace and respect that the occasion requires. Replacing serious investigtive journalism with a weave of mindless sound bites from meaningless tittle tattle for spooling onto 24hr news is depressing. Sky news is master
Complain about this post----------------------
Totally agree. its role should have been
News=====>Media=====>audience
but it seems like this
Media====>News======>audience
It should give news but its making news
wc 1992 -- bring back the format . Plain and simple..
Complain about this postJonathan, this is not meant unkindly but your) comments about the elimination of india and Pakistan seem more like a post traumatic stress reaction to events off the field than a lucid analysis of what actually happened on the field.
Unlike Bob Woolmer's tragic death, there is no unsolved mystery here. The two teams in question were eliminated by two other teams who were better on the day. Pakistan are prone to self-destruct while India (and Tendulkar in particular) have been monstrously over-hyped by their own press and supporters. (Shades of England's whitewash by the Australians).
Of course, in an ideal world the whole thing would have been called off (as the 1972 Olympics should have been) but people confidently state that Bob Woolmer would not have wanted that. (How do they know incidentally?) My own feeling is that if a so-called game for gentleman leads to murder then perhaps an international match moratorium is called for.
Sorry to have been so diffuse and rambling but these are exceptional times.
Complain about this postJonathan, I am a fan of your commentaries and writing, but your views regarding "minnows" are extremely condescending.
As an Irish cricket fan and long time follower of the fortunes of England, I'm thrilled by my nations progress into the super eights. Hopefully this experience will contribute to the development of the game at home, which should be the aim of an inclusive and progressive sport (if indeed cricket could be described as such). It's a shame Ed Joyce will be lining up against us, but that's life.
Abid Khan mentioned "a bad day at the office" above as being enough to eliminate a bigger team, but Pakistan were already in trouble having lost to the Windies. If the bigger teams can't win two matches out of three, frankly they don't deserve to progress.
Complain about this postWhat kind of a comment is that "it is not good" for cricket that Bangladesh and Ireland has passed through to the second round? I really think it is illogical and irresponsible to suggest that minnows should not be given their chance in the sun. If this was the case, let's apply this to every sport and keep England out of the World Cup soccer tournament. Since when have they played really well against the top teams? Unless the author suggests that cricket is a very elitist game and not that of the masses. Well, the masses and the teams have spoken. India and Pakistan have not deserved to go through to the second round for this world cup.
Complain about this postI was full of admiration for the Pakistan team, not least their captain, when they made the hard decision to play the third and inevitably last of their group matches - and belatedly performed to something like their true potential. It showed great character and did much to put the competition back on track in the wake of the terrible tragedy that's afflicted all concerned.
Perhaps the inspired team leadership that Inzi showed on this occasion is one important facet of cricket captaincy. A more obvious aspect of captaincy is, of course, displayed on the field: choice and timing of bowling changes, field setting, knowing how and when to motivate players most effectively. It seems to me that if you're captain of Australia and playing against lesser opposition, i.e. any other team, these skills aren't critical: you can make wrong decisions and still win because your team is so superior. But if you're captain of a "minnow" team, it's a different kettle of fish. Any hope you might have depends crucially on the captain getting it right every time.
In this respect, hasn't Trent Johnson proved himself one of the best of international cricket captains? Ireland have been blown away in only one match - when Johnson didn't play.
My sincere congratulations to both Trent Johnson and Inzi - two wonderful displays of captaincy, albeit in different senses. (Incidentally, I'm neither Irish nor Pakistani!)
Finally, a (less sincere) request: please will you make your commentaries a little less entertaining, informative and stimulating? I have a contract to complete a book before July this year and I'm not getting on with it very quickly!
Best wishes,
Mark.
Complain about this postInteresting comments from all and reflecting the wide variety of opinions that exist.
From an Irish perspective, the sport is only played by a minority and receives very little funding or media coverage, largely because here it is viewed as per Jonathon's view as still being exclusive or restricted to only a few recognised countries. The effect that the Irish performance has had is amazing, a sport that was seen as exclusive is now on the front page nearly every day. Hopefully it will receive some funding now and try to keep players here and raise the level so that we can keep competing with the bigger nations as well.
Just pulling together a few of the points made, I read a review of Bob Woolmer on the day of the Ireland v Pakistan match in the Irish Times, (obviously pre his death, although it now reads like an obituary) where they mentioned his great talent and successes. But they also highlighted his suppport for the so-called lesser teams such as Ireland in particular (his son works for a sports company here) and their promotion within the ICC, as true to his character, from what I have read elsewhere he was interested in promoting cricket full stop, no matter who played it.
In that spirit, let's hope everyone plays to their ability, maybe Ireland and Bangladesh will get hammered by some teams, but they have earned their place and cannot but improve from the experience. I'm crossing my fingers for an upset from both teams but barring that a good struggle to make some of the other nations sit up and take notice
Helen
Complain about this postwhat a surprise a so called expert denouncing the achievements of so called lesser teams in favour of the good of the tournament....this is the same man who at the start of the tournament said there was no chance of any shocks, now he backtracks and says "in a matter of fact" way that such huge achievements are bad for the sport,ireland and bangladesh earned their places and these so called experts should accept the format of the competition....ps i loved aggers column before reading this tripe, as an avid irish supporter ive seen the effort and dedication thse players have put in for the last 4 years so why, when they earn a great result is the team mocked so by the upper crust aristocratic,silver spooned toffs that still believe,them that have are better than them that havent
Complain about this postLet's have a new rule: any side that boasts a sufficiently large and fanatical support gets automatic qualification for the Super Eights and will be reinststed on request however badly it plays.
Abid Khan (no. 22) asks why Pakistan were asked to play on a green pitch that suited their pace attack. Many of us watching the game were asking why play was restarted in dreadful conditions, with the Pakistan bowlers touching 90mph. At the time it looked like a cynical ploy to save them at all costs by making the batsmen play in totally unacceptable conditions for batting.
Complain about this postOne thing I have learned over 50 years of watching cricket.
When experts start predicting outcomes of matches as boring and predictable it just underlines that so called cricket pundits know nothing.
Having Ireland and Bangladesh in the super 8s is fantastic and well done to them as they have earned their places.
If cricket pundits know so much how is it you did not predict that ?
I for one think that Ireland fans have it right, enjoy yourselves no matter the result.
Maybe we could all learn a lesson from the Ireland fans and the world cup has been all the better for them.
From an ever hopeful England Fan.
Complain about this postI regard Jonathan Anew as the best writer on cricket in the business, but I have to disagree with his comment about Bob Woolmers death overshadowing the World Cup.
I believe that Bob woolmer would want the World Cup to continue and the final to be a celebration of cricket and to Bob Woolmers life that had an effect on the game around the round.
Keep up the good work Mr Agnew and lets hope that England can have some success after a dismal winter.
Complain about this postEngland are not the long shots for the semis Aggers.
Complain about this postWe have a good chance like the rest of the 7.
If we beat Ireland and Bangladesh, and get a good result against South Africa, Australia, Sri Lanka and the West Indies, we stand a good chance.
It would have been good to see Pakistan and India join in but Ireland and Bangladesh showed them how to play Cricket.
I hope we get a good super 8's stage and hope that the 4 best teams are in the semis and also the 2 best teams (England will be one of them) line up at the final!
and then the fateful phrase of ENGLAND ARE CRICKET WORLD CUP CHAMPIONS is said!
Cricket - ICC failure ?
Reading Jonathan Agnew blog today I am very surprised how there are any well wishers for Pakistan & Indian Cricket . I am from pakistan and in all honesty very embarrassed that is the case .
Why is the ICC not taking serious steps to get rid of match-fixing ? Cricket was given to this world by the british and as they have the best investigators in the world , scotland yard , someone must ask them to get involved .
ICC should have taken punitive action against the PCB for their lacklustre attitiude towards some of the players taking drugs and now with this murder - as a cricket fan I am appallled how money rules the running of this game .
Complain about this postAgree completely that the unfortunate events relating to Bob Woolmer overshadow the event.
However, I can't believe anyone can say that Ireland and Bangladesh do not deserve to be there on merit from the games played.
Bangladesh isn't 100m, it is closer to 150m people, and similar to India and Pakistan, the sport is 10 times more popular than any other sport there.
I remember 20 years ago thinking Sri Lanka were just there as whipping boys. No longer, and as with any strategy, it takes time to come to fruition. The benefits in Bangladesh and Ireland may be another 10-15 years away - but it will materialise, as long as poor governance doesn't interfere. This alone is why Kenya haven't progressed as quickly as they should have in the last 4 years.
On paper, England should be better all the time than Croatia and Israel in football, and Wales, Scotland and Ireland in Rugby simply because of the size of the country. Sport doesn't work that way.
The bottom line is that in the short term, Pakistan and India not in the Super 8's will hurt the commercial revenues coming into the game. In the longer term, the finances of the global game will cope, and be all the better for it.
Complain about this postIreland made it through in a pretty tough group. Bangladesh played some great cricket to see of India. Why is it that because they both played some great cricket against teams that should have beaten them that the tournament will not be as enjoyable?
Do I want to watch Pakistan or India play at a substandard level, or do I want to watch Ireland and Bangladesh play out of their skins against the best teams in the world. Mark my words, this isn't the last upset we'll see in the World Cup.
And most importantly, the World Cup should absolutely continue. It would be a travesty to let these people who have taken the life of a great cricketing mind, not to mention a genuinely decent bloke, affect world cricket any more than they already have. Of course we should recognise the sad passing of Bob Woolmer, but it should be in putting on the best damn world cup ever seen.
Aussies to win ;-)
Complain about this postI'm sorry, but Ireland and Bangladesh are in the Super 8's on MERIT. They have beaten test sides, and so what if they feature in 11 of the super 8 games, the expansion of sport in minor nations is what the world needs.
Complain about this postI would have loved all the minnows to have gotten through...remember Greece in Euro 2004 and South Korea and Turkey in WC 2002...yeah, expansion is the way forward
Great comment from Agers - "It is a risk you run when you have lesser teams playing amongst the best that upsets will happen".
Maybe England should be replaced by a decent team to make The Ashes a respectable competiton too.
Complain about this postAggers,
I for one will be grateful when the true story of this world cup is told.
Inept local organisation. Is Guyana truly ready, is the Kensington oval or for that matter Sabina Park?
Did the ICC overprice the tickets for a disinterested West Indian public who have failed to turn up to games?
Why was security so lapse thyat the head coach of Pakistan was murdered in his hotel room?
Why are so many games so undersold and yet even if you chose to go to a game you can't get there?
It's a shambles and the truth needs to be told.
Complain about this postI'm afraid I can't agree with any of your comments, JA. This World Cup will only continue to be overshadowed by Bob Woolmer's death for as long as journalists like yourself keep writing articles dwelling on it. RIP, but please let's move on. I think the fans just want to get on with the tournament, and if there are a few cracking matches in the Super 8s, the cricket will take centre stage again. And if England win it, then that is going to be the only thing I remember the tournament for - and I'm sure that goes for the supporters of whichever team wins it.
Complain about this postMy money is on Sri-Lanka making the finals with Austrailia being the other team. Out of the all the strong teams left the Lankans have the most diverse bowling attack with Vaas, Murali and Malinga. On these pitches having bowling variations rather than a continuous pace attack as is the case with the South Africans is the key to success. Case in point the battering Pollock and team got by the Aussies!
The Lankans' demolition of India was complete in every department of the game and augurs well for their opening matches in Guyana and beyond. Their 6 points fro, the prelims and a good net run rate being the other factors which should let them go a long way.
Complain about this postSerious cricket will be played by serious competitors. While the two qualifying 'minnows' may not have the resources of the 'greats', no one can doubt their resolve and determination. Surely the essence and origins of the game lie in the desire to compete against the odds and to give your best on the day.
Complain about this postLike a number of other commenters, agree with your comments Aggers on Woolmer's passing, but honestly lines like:
While it is always a tremendous day for the ‘minnow’, the lasting consequences for the tournament are seriously damaging
smack of old-boy elitism. India and Pakistan played poor cricket and deserve to be out. Ireland and Bangladesh for showing the overpaid, over-hyped South Asian neighbours how to play with verve and passion, deserve their spots.
Roger Federer is smashing records, but every major tournament he enters, he starts at the bottom like everyone else, and has to earn his titles. Star power doesn't win games, playing well does.
Complain about this postYou my friend. as much as I admire you, are a dinosaur.
You have to make way for the new blood.
India versus Pakistan was yesterday.
Bangladesh versus Ireland is today.
Let the games begin.
Regards,
Amin Soorty
Complain about this post"everything meaningful about this World Cup perished too."
that sums up this world cup for me. It feels wrong. i dont think it should continue.
Complain about this postAggers I have been reading your column and listening to TMS for as long as I can remember and I can say it has been a joy to read and listen to you and your colleagues commentaries on many cricket games.
Put simply it is your fault I love cricket.
It is why I am saddened by your comments regarding Ireland and Bangladesh. Maybe the games will be one sided, maybe not. But these teams bust a gut (both on and off the field) to get to the top table. Maybe its time the more established people and teams in cricket gave them the respect they deserve.
Complain about this postAggers, your world cup predictions have been exposed somewhat. Particularly, you tipped India to get to at least the final, Pakistan to do well, and the West Indies to struggle even to beat Ireland. I couldn't believe you made those predictions, it's as if you haven't watched cricket in the last year...West Indies have been excellent, India have been very poor and Pakistan had loads of injuries. I for one am not surprised those 2 teams are out
Complain about this posti just fail to understand why is everone being so skeptical about the fact that India and Pakistan are out of the world cup? It was a fair game, everyone played and they lost 2 matches. Result, the are out......no one predicted this either...As far as the entry of two new teams is concerend...Every team has a first time..No one expected Sri-Lanka to beat AUstralia in 96', but they did....so even if Bangladesh does not make it to the world cup, it has made it the super 8 and it shall remain so...So people should start accepting reality.
Complain about this postAs far as the Pakistan coach's death is concerned, it sure is tragity which will always be remebered along with World Cup 2007...My condolences to his family.
People who are making lot of hullabaloo about the format of the tournament because so-called heavyweights like Pakistan and India are out, should realize that current format was introduce to give a cake walk to the so-called heavyweights and perhaps give them a trial period to whip the “minors” to get their game going……………… Well, blame your team if they failed to take advantage of the format, but please don’t blame the format. If you always look for the excuse, even with format change, you’ll find one! If on a given day, or perhaps on their day Pakistan or India could upset any team…………….well, that’s true for Bangladesh or Ireland, as well. Please give the due credit and respect to these teams…………..by the way, being in super8 they’re no longer minors!
Complain about this postI remember when Australia qualified for the Football World Cup last June.
Apart from the euphoria and the great feeling it gave to our nation, it forwarded soccer in Australia by at least 5 years.
I think likewise will happen in Ireland and Banglasdesh.
I love seeing the so called minnows competing at this level as it adds a another level of unpredictability.
Complain about this postI completely agree with his sentiments regarding the sadness of the death, and my thoughts go out towards Woolmer's family.
However, I disagree with him belittling Ireland and Bangladesh, they both deserve to be there and have proven at this World Cup at least, that they are better teams than Pakistan and India respectively.
Up The Cricket and the minnows. If only these media types showed the same sort of happiness towards the underdogs as the nation does in the FA Cup for example, with the football, and Ghana for example last year at the FIFA Footie world cup.
Complain about this postAfter the death of bob woolmer this world cup should not have been played . after all where talking about murder.
they should all pack there bags and go on home not think about playing cricket at a time like this .
all the players want his there match fee there dont care about bob.
rest in peace bob.
Complain about this postThe above comments are not fair. We are complaining if the minnows are there and we will be complaining about not putting in enough effort to expand cricket to the rest of the world if the minnows are not there. It's all the same for every sport folks, whether it be football, rugby or cricket. If you want to expand it, you have to let the little boys play too.
Agree completely with the statement regarding Bob Woolmer. I hope the killers are brought to justice very soon...
Complain about this postIts like saying we should just have a football world cup with Brazil, Italy, Germany, France, England, Argentina, Spain and Holland and start a super eight.. whats the point of having group stages so that teams like Senegal, Turkey, Korea, Cameroon, Portugal, USA, Sweden etc can upset one of the stronger countries… they will never win anyway...it takes the fun out of the competition....
Complain about this postpure hypocracy
same people, who are complaining now, probably cheered when Croatia beat Germany (1998), Korea beat Italy (2002)...
in the end its always one of the top teams that win Fifa WC... but no one complains if France or Italy bows out early...
Same with Cricket... we know India and Pakistan are stronger than Bangladesh and Ireland... but its the upsets that makes it truly a WC...where anything can happen
Enjoy it now
Agnew's on the money. Ireland and Bangladesh are not amongst the best 8 teams in the world. As one commentator pointed out, if Ireland or Bangladesh were to play India or Pakistan ten times, they would probably manage about one win at the most. They just happened to win at the right time.
This world cup is going to be farcical not because of the absence of India and Pakistan, but because Bangladesh and Ireland are going to be pummelled into the ground. Bangladeshi batsmen looked completely at sea against the Bermudians, and if two dropped catches had been taken, who knows what the result might have been. Suffice to say, both teams are one-win wonders (Bermuda can hardly be considered a worthwhile team), and they re probably not going to manage a single victory in the next round.
India and Pakistan lost their respective matches. Bangladesh and Ireland didnt win them. Truth be told, if India and Pakistan were to stage a bilateral series in April, it would probably be far more watchable than Ireland v/s Australia, Bangladesh v/s South Africa and other such mouth watering prospects.
With all due respect to Bangladesh and Ireland, neither of those two teams have the quality or consistency to survive in the Super 8s. And cricket is a lot poorer for it. India and Pakistan can rise to the occassion and challenge the big guns. Ireland and Bangladesh simply cannot.
And those 100 million Bangladeshis are unlikely to enjoy the reality checks that will come in the next couple of days.
Complain about this postEven as an Irish supporter, I can't see us getting into the semi finals, but I also can't see us being walked on every game. We've earned our right to be in the Super 8s, and if we can take points from one of the other sides, which we are more than capable of doing, we'll have fully justified our position there.
Complain about this postI agree with the fact the worldcup will be overshadowed by Bob Woolmers death, but i do not agree with the statement that due to the 'lesser' teams winning it is not good for the sport. If the 'bigger' teams do not perform they do not deserve to be in the super 8. If these 'lesser' teams have outperformed and outplayed them they deserve to go through. The World Cup promotes cricket, and now in Ireland and Bangledesh hopefully cricket will become more popular. If it always the same 8 teams every four years it could become dull. Oh yeah and with England can we see some optimism please and not always be so down on our national team. Lets get behind the team!
Complain about this postFollowing Aggers' logic :
Complain about this post1. The FA Cup will be played out between only the top 16 clubs in English football (God forbid that any "giant-killing" minnows should perpetuate the "romance" of the Cup!).
2. The six nations rugby tournament will be arranged to allow England's ultimate cruise towards another well-deserved grand-slam.
3. The Football World Cup will drop 12 months of lucrative, meaningless qualifying matches televised worldwide and leave it to the chosen few (no irritating minnows) to contest the Jules Remy trophy (or Rupert Murdoch version or whatever) but without the gazillions in TV revenue.
4. The ICC will follow suit and adopt this preferred template - I assume that, following the US precedent of what constitutes a "World" Series ie Baseball or World Series Golf, where all tournaments, if not contested only by US teams are at least played by competitors qualifying by a system that favours those from the USA, the "New Cricket World" will have no room for any unworthy upstarts!
5. If Aggers' sentiments had been adopted in relation to golf, the Ryder Cup would have been buried as a non-contest way back in the 1970s through lack of competition(minnows?) to the loss of everyone who enjoys sport (not least the TV networks). Look at it now!
Shame on you Mr Agnew - but enjoy the Caribbean beaches and rum punches in the meantime - I assume that you will stay in the West Indies despite your reservations about the relevance of the tournament's continuing?
I agree whatever the circumstances the loss of Bob Woolmer during this World Cup has certainly created the most depressing of situations and many aspects of the sport quite meaningless and for me whatever the final outcome surrounding Bob Woolmers Murder there appears aspects of the cricketing world that will forever be 'tainted' especially with relation to the One Day game and people's desire to gamble on the outcome of results.
The Ireland and Bangladesh results are part and parcel of the game,it just so happens that we now have Pakistan and India losing out,so what,is'nt that how things happen in sport whatever the sport,it is I believe the 'WORLD CUP' and participants from other than the so called major nations take part,we could if we allow ourselves to embrace the results see it as progress.
Complain about this postWith all due respect to the comments people are giving. Every body is referring wrong schedule here, Ireland will play Australia on Tuesday and West Indies will play England on Friday in Guyana.
Complain about this posti think it is wrong to discredit teams like ireland and bangledesh.how else are you going to improve the game worldwide if they are discounted,yet bangledesh are playing fulltime test cricket right now and have a very young team coming through at the moment so please give them a chance.you can blame things on the big teams losing like conditions and the white ball but they are fulltime pros at the end of the day.they should be prepared for this,dont blame the SMALLER COUNTRIES for this.its down to bad coaching and management.
Complain about this postIreland and Bangladesh are there on merit. They both finished second in their respective groups. Thats all that was asked of them. No argument.
Complain about this postSo what if they are weak and inexperienced? Tough! They both upset a 'star team'. They can only benefit from another six matches aginst the world's best, even if defeated.
So, in Ireland's case we line out against England next and Irishman Ed Joyce, who did so much to get Ireland to the World Cup will be lining out in English colours. If the Cricket authorities want to inprove the Associate Country teams, then they should help them to retain their players.
I look forward to Ireland and Bangladesh at least providing a few serious frights for the remaining big ones, or even better taking a match or two. If not we will still have achieved greatly.
For the first time in my 52 years, I saw two young boys playing cricket on the street in a suburb of Dublin yesterday. Not soccer, not hurling, not Gaelic football, not rugby, not tennis, not basketball. But cricket!!! Thats a start!
Dear Mr. Agnew,
There was once a time, I believe, when the Mr. Agnew so fond of playing practical jokes upon his fellow commentators in the TMS box would have been absolutely delighted to have seen Ireland and Bangladesh pulling off 'shock results', and have relished the idea of the S8 games to come as the mighty sides remaining strove to avoid being embarrassed in their turns.
I, and everyone else on this board, can understand how hard Bob Woolmer's death must be for you. Many of us will never have had the privilige of even meeting him, whereas you must have interviewed him or spoken with him before/after matches dozens of times. I do not doubt that you and he must have been very good friends.
If you need the time off, to recover, then take a break- all your readers and listeners will understand. We who knew him only by reputation or internet board/TMS interview are saddened by his loss. We can quite understand how bad it must be for his close friends and family.
If events have left you feeling so low that you write 'The Super 8's will be the duller and more predicable..' (surely that should be predictable?) then ask the BBC for some time off for compassionate leave, for everyone's sake.
Regards and condolences to You, and all Bob's family and friends.
Charles Evans.
Complain about this postAggers,
Complain about this postCome on being "ambushed" by one minnow is understandable, but they both lost two games each. And if Pakistan lose to the Windies and India to Sri Lanka, how does it matter if they lose now or in the Super 8s or Semis? The fact is they lost to a better prepare sides and hence dont deserve to be still here. Yes the Irish or Banglas may not send in 15000 people to scream and support their teams and add to the colour of the tournament, but hey the 500 odd of Irish made up for 15000 Indians. I loved it. As an Indian, I did. Oh, by the way, Bangladesh beat 4 teams before they started this tournament including New Zealand. So, how bad are they really?
Agreed , both Bangladesh and Ireland made it to super 8s on sheer merit.
Agreed, both Pakistan and India dont deserve to be in the super 8s due to lack of committment and passion.
Agreed, minnows are to be given equal chance and they moving to Super 8s is commendable.
But in all possibility,both of them will loose all of their matches ahead making it less exciting, except when they play each other. And in all possibility, the top teams in each group vis-a-vis Australia, New Zealand, Sri lanka and west indies will make it to semi's because of the max points that they are already carring ahead and also now that we have two weaker teams in Bangladesh and Ireland in super 8s.
I just think that the points strategy behind the group matches needs to be re-visited.
Complain about this postJA has seen the bangladesh U-19 team knock the stockings off england U-19 plenty times.Maybe for some the progress of bangladesh and ireland and the exit of both india and pakistan sounds like a botched play. But anyone watching bangladesh playing india has to agree that the boys in green completly outplayed india in all aspects of the game from the first ball of the match. This qualification will give cricket a shot in the arm in bangladesh that may in 10 years time see them rival sri lanka. Bob woolmer RIP.
Complain about this postIt sounds as if I am sitting inside a medieval court room where a proud King summons that the stupid, low-life, low-birth commoner is not ELIGIBLE to enter the princely court room!! Mr. Jonathan Agnew's comment on Bangladesh and Ireland draws this analogy. Is cricket a game to be played by England and its "at-par" friends India and Pakistan only? Is is that coveted?
Shame on cricket, or? Come on and have an upgrade of mind-set, please!!
(A Bangladeshi cricket fan - still eligible to support his country for playing good cricket!)
Complain about this postengland should win the world cup. pieterson is the best batsman in the world
Complain about this postAggers, I agree that watching an India-Pakistan clash would have been marvellous entertainment but your article here does an utter disservice to Ireland and Bangladesh (I will not use the 'minnows' term because it's dismissive and smells of the old-type elitist snobbery that seems to be much reduced in English cricket currently, thank merry God). You say that losing India and Pakistan is a consequence of the white ball coupled with unpredictable pitches over a 50-over contest. If that is the case then why hasn't the English limited overs cup scene been littered with professional counties being beaten by minor counties? In these competitions, first-class sides do come down and play on club level pitches that aren't prepared to the same level as county tracks. There haven't been a mass of shock results and this was held up as one reason for reducing minor county involvement in the cup competitions as there wasn't the shock element so beloved of football's FA Cup The skill level between minor county player and first-class county player is less than minor nation player and full Test playing nation player, therefore you'd expect the shocks to have come in the county game but they haven't.
India lost to the lowest ranked Test side on a decent pitch. They lost to Sri Lanka on a good pitch. Pakistan lost to the West Indies, a massively inconsistent team over recent years, on what was a decent wicket and then to Ireland on what was a rather green wicket. Out of those four games, you can only really say the pitch had a large influence on the Pakistan-Ireland result.
India crumbled to the Bangladeshi spinners on a pitch that was in no way a spinner's wicket. Aren't Indian batsmen meant to be fine players of spin? Against Sri Lanka they were out-thought with the bat and totally outplayed with the ball. For all the mutterings about the rise of the Indian seamers, they are still nowhere near being a coherent unit. Agarkar has always been massively inconsistent, Zaheer Khan lost his place for along time, Munaf Patel is getting slower and slower, Sreesanth was absent presumably, Pathan has lost pace and been bowling poorly, Nehra seems to have vanished and RP Singh is very much in the infancy of his career. Add in to this an apparent lack of belief in Anil Kumble for one-day internationals and the fact that Harbhahjan hasn't really been firing over the last six months. Compare this to Sri Lanka who possesed the veteran steady-as-you-go man in Vaas, the tearaway in Malinga who, for my money, is at the top of the tree as far as genuinely fast 90+ mph bowlers go in world cricket right now, another useful quick in Fernando, the one-day wiles of Jayasuriya and the best spinner in current Test and one-day competition in Murali. Did Pakistan really face a strong attack? They were outclassed by the West Indies with a fairly ordinary medium pacer in Dwayne Smith cleaning up the premier batsmen coupled with Younis Khan playing a pull shot best described as 'a bucket of $%$£'. They then got done over on a seaming wicket by a host of Irish medium pacers. Out of those two bowling attacks, you would really only pick out Jerome Taylor as being of the potential to be in the top class bracket.
What was evident from both India and Pakistan was a lack of application with the bat. There dudn't seem to be much thought going through most of the batsmen. Neither side looked good in the field, certainly not up to Australian, South African and Sri Lankan standards. Both sides looked to be massively behind the level demanded and expected.
We shouldn't be cursing the minor nations for getting through and deprieving us of the majesty of an India-Pakistan clash. We should be cursing the structures of both India and Pakistan for producing cricketers who seem to lack bottle when it matters most. Much has been said of the struggle the late Mr Woolmer had with senior elements within Pakistan cricket and the struggles within Indian cricket have been well documented. One wonders wat is more important to the Indian board, performance on the field or financial performance off it. Pakistan have been playing poorly for some time, their South African tour was utterly shambolic.
Their defeats and departure from the West Indies is for the good of the sport if they return home and improve their administrations, their cricketing structures and their performances. I for one want to see India and Pakistan come back for the next World Cup with sides that might actually take on Australia and South Africa and win. Humiliation can be a great catalyst for change and both countries need change.
Next: why Steve McClaren is the logical choice for next Pakistan cricket coach.
Complain about this postBoth of the last two world cup finals were very booring with Australia comprehensively beating Pakistan and India. If I follow your logic then there was no need for those world cups at all.......the favourites won! There is a clear gap between the Aussie & SA and the other contenders. Why not limit the WC between the top two teams! WC should be a global event and thanks to ICC it is. This WC will act as tonic to Bangladesh and Irish cricket; and without these two teams this would have been a duller WC!
Complain about this postBob Woolmer was murdered, so was the Indian team, and in broad daylight. I couldn't have imagined there existed a cricket umpire who would deny the lbw appeal after Agarkar's first ball to Jayasuria.
Complain about this postI am sorry that Bob Woolmer
Complain about this postWell i can't say anything about the teams so called minnows,bt i think this world cup is going to be the financial disaster for TV companies,West Indies & ICC,bcoz of elimination of two big teams(India & Pak),and to add fuel to that, there's a black cloud of Bob's murder sorrounding this tournament.Add all these circumstances and we can easily imagine the number of people watching remaining matches in stadiums & on TV's.I just hope that it does'nt cripple the carribean economy,bcoz they have invested millions and milions for hosting this cricketing masterpeice.
Complain about this postJST HOPE FOR THE BEST.
BOB WOOLMER RIP!!!
You're the best damn coach sub continent have ever seen. I will certainly miss you.
As far as India and Pakistan goes, I do understand the half dozen dramas Pakistan have gone through may have played the part, but what's up with the India???
Pakistan had following reasons for being flop:
-Oval incident was still in their mind
-Loss of 3 regulars (Afridi,Razzaq, Asif) and Shoaib
-Asif and Shoaib Saga was still haunting the team
-Just before Ireland match, Rana and Gul were tested, which played part on Gul as he could not give 100% in Ireland game (0 Wkt) due to this.
-Oh yeah I forgot, someone mentioned grassy pitch :P
Damn now this murder of Coach? Hell even Shane Warne's grandma can bowl out the whole team in this situation.
Complain about this postDave Hartin,
That is one brilliant post. My respects.
JA, Bangladesh beat India fair and square and so Ireland. If you want to have only your so called powerhouses like 'India' and 'Pakistan' playing, why even bother to have a world cup...Just have each play the other. I'm sure you and you other 'big team suckups' will have plenty to write about.
The problem with 'experts' like you is simple...no matter how wrong you are with your opinions and remarks, you don't have the courage to admit the truth.
This is worst piece of article you have ever written in your life....
Complain about this postWhilst I agree with you on the tournament being diminished due to India and Pakistan's exit - I wholeheartedly agree with the minnow's inclusion and go as far as to say that the tournament should be larger to include more minnows. The game surely cannot grow into a truly global game if it is dominated by 8-10 countries. The fact that Ireland can beat Pakistan (regardless of any slurs and rumours) and that Bangladesh can beat India means that these sidesare improving - it is not because of these results alone that India and Pakistan are out - they lost to the other seeded teams in their group too. Bigger tournament - more minnows for me.
Complain about this post"I can’t say that I really believe it is for the good of the sport that one of its finest and most passionate contests – India against Pakistan – has now been replaced by Ireland against Bangladesh."
You know what - maybe for the next World Cup, we should make the "minnows" sign a contract, clearly stating that they are being allowed to play only on the condition - that they will not win any matches in the first round (except against each other), and that they are not supposed to quality for the Super 8s. How's that?!
In case someone didn't get it, I'm just being sarcastic. Two of the minnows are into the next round because they deserve to be there. I think it's great for the globalization of cricket, even though its at the expense of missing out on one of the most passionate contests. This wake-up call was a long time coming for both Pakistan and India.
Complain about this postI think the world cup is the perfect place for the so-called 'minnows' to be competing with the 'big 8'.
As has been proved in this tournament, upsets can happen in the shorter form of the game, and provide these teams with the perfect place to compete with (and learn from) the established test-playing nations.
The REAL discussion should be about the ridiculous situation of some of these teams playing test match series against Australia, England etc. because of the ICC 'ranking' requirements. What is needed is a first and second division of test match playing teams, with automatic promotion and relegation, allowing proper 5 match series between the 'first division' teams, but giving the 'second division' teams a chance to play with the big boys when they get promoted.
Complain about this postI AM NOT COMMENTING ON THIS STORY - I cant find a place where to ask the following question -
I thought the fist Super 8 match was A1 v D2 which shoulc = Auz v Ireland. How is it the first match is A1 v D1?
Can someone please clarify this matter for me?
Thanks
Complain about this postLet's cut to the chase here - India and Pakistan are not out of the WC because they failed to beat Bangladesh and Ireland respectively, they are out because they ALSO failed to beat Sri Lanka or the Windies.
4 points would have been enough for both of them to get out of their groups, so I'm sorry, if you can't manage to get these from 3 games vs 1 'giant' and 2 'minnows', you don't deserve a place in the Super 8s.
Fair enough, Bangladesh and Ireland probably are going to get given a few tonkings in this round, but the experience of going up against the 'big boys' is going to be invaluable, and although all of the other 6 teams will be looking at their games against these 2 as '4 easy points', you can bet that none of them will be taking this 'minnow' opposition any more.
Go England for the cup (a man's got to dream....)!
Complain about this postAs a Bangladeshi expat in California, I am appalled by the snobbish remarks of Agnew regarding Bangladesh.
Complain about this postSuper 8s will be "duller and more predictable" because my old country is in? This flies in the face of the Tigers' performance against India, and no, Mr Agnew, it's not because of "unpredictable pitches, white balls and only 50 overs." The Tigers defeated India comprehensively in batting, fielding and bowling, with an energy that was anything but "dull and predictable." And the beauty of the match was that it produced a wondrously unpredictable result.
Mr Agnew's snobbery blinds him to the fact that limiting the world cup to the presumably top cricketing teams is no guarantee against dull matches. Just consider the last World Cup final of Australia and India, where India was woefully outclassed.
Mr Agnew's lumping of Ireland and Bangladesh is also curious, and for a seasoned cricket commentator, unpardonable. Ireland, like some EU cricketing nations and Scotland, lacks the mass support/ participation/ infrastructure for domestic cricket crucial for the possibility of significant growth. But all the same, I wish them well, and welcome them to the super 8. Bangladesh, on the other hand, have improved prodigiously over the years, and have a young spirited team that, on a good day, have beaten the top cricketing nations.
In any case, the notion of an exclusive coterie of top cricketing nations is reminiscent of that other English citadel of snobbery, the club.
I am not naive, and realize the ICCs decision to have so many nations playing is driven more by greed than loftier intentions, but I don't think it's an entirely bad thing.
I for one, was pleased to see the odd player of the so-called minnows (Bangladesh most assuredly excluded) enjoy his day in the sun (the irrepressible Leverock of Bermuda comes to mind), and felt proud to be a part of a generous fraternity of cricketing nations with a big heart.
What has always attracted me to cricket is not just the game itself but the ethos of gentlemanly grace, recently found to be wanting in so many cricketing hot shots who have made meanspirited disparaging remarks about Bangladesh (many have lived to rue their words).
Now we have an English commentator, of all people, pontificating on Bangladesh spoiling the big boys party.
Well, the big boys themselves are quite capable of being dull. Just look at the English in the recent Ashes series, where the matches became such a crushing bore -- or as Mr Agnew puts it, "dull and predictable" -- that even Aussie fans prayed (in vain) for the English to show any semblance of a fight. (Full marks to the English, however, for their comeback in the one-day series.)
The fact of the matter is this: India and Pakistan (sleeping giants my foot, both were overhyped teams) got their comeuppance. If you can't perform, you should be out, and Ireland and Bangladesh are in because they deserve it.
And watch out Mr Agnew: Bangladesh may force a few upsets yet and force you to eat your own words.
Interesting that the Indians and Pakistanis have been kicked out. Their teams lost fair and square and dear JA, none of the pitches have been unpredictable as you mentioned. One might even use your logic to describe England. The way they struggled through does not actually inspire more confidence than Bangladesh or Ireland.Many years ago in the 50s, it was wonderful for upstarts West Indies to beat England in their own back yard. Then in 1996 Sri Lanka climbed the pedestal and have remained a strong team, a far cry from the minnows the were in Asantha De Mel's time. In case anyone forgot, Bangladesh have already accounted for India twice and the mighty Australians the very year England won the Ashes.
We should all be saying well played to the likes of Ireland and Bangladesh and keep playing with spirit.
Complain about this postDear Agers,
You are right about all the things that are missing by Paksitan and India's elimination from the tournament. However, it is now a fact that it is 8 years since Pakistan won an important match in the World Cup and 4 for India. Both teams looked poor when you look across the field of whose out there.
The players are not good enough principally because they collectively now lack the ability to bat on fast pitches, seaming pitches or in conditions that really help the bowlers. Neither Bangladesh's or Ireland's attack should be capable of bowling out India and Pakistan for sub-200. However, who of the currenty Top Order of either team has spent 3-5 years developing batting skills in England, Australia or South Africa?
Pakistan in particular -- whose record in the last year is i) lost 3-0 to England in Tests ii) lost to South Africa in the Tests; iii) drew 2-2 in the 1-dayers and iv) thrashed by SA in the one-dayers. In between, drug scandals, fights with the Chairman of the PCB, drug-bans over-turned, a forfeited test match and a first-round elimination in the Champions Trophy.
I am concerned that very little if anything will change in the structure and the way in which the game is played in Pakistan and India, leaving the field as a simple winning formula for Australia (rather like Formula 1) -- as a result, the game is beginning to lose interest.
Regards
Complain about this postAizad Hussain
Am gutted Ireland and Bangladesh qualified. India and Pakistan would have been a classic match plus they would have had 5 more unpredictable games each which would keep the tournament alive.
As it is we will have 11 very predictable and boring games and less chance of anyone stopping australia.
Complain about this postThe CWC schedule appears to have been changed. April 24th in Barbados was due to be R/U Group C vs R/U Grp D. Ireland were runners up in Group D. So it should be Engalnd vs Ireland in Bardabos. The schedule was planned that Engalnd should Play WI on that day but with the Pakistan not qualifying, it all changed. Dare I say that the schedule has been altered so that The West Indies play in Barbados rather than Guyana?
Complain about this postThere is one fundamental reason the World Cup could not be cancelled; we would have sent a potentially very bad message to the Gambling Mafia. If tournaments were to be called off if such things occur,every time the results were going the wrong way for these people someone could be killed.
Complain about this postOur sympathies and thoughts are with the family and friends of Mr Woolmer.
Oh, so now, the victiories by Ireland and Bangladesh are dismissed as luck. Perhaps in the case of Ireland (though they almost beat South Africa in the warm ups so I doubt it) but definitely not in the case of Bangladesh, who have conslusively proven that with a new, young team, they have joined the big boys, in the way Sri Lanka did in the nineties.
Agnew with his elitist, exclusive mindset is exactly the kind of person who has seen cricket degenerate into a minority sport in the UK and would prefer it that way world wide.
Complain about this postWHats the point of having these teams at the world cup if you do not want them then at all? Tell us please or lesrned one. How else can they improve their game if they do not play these so called Test nations?
Thats a lot of disrespect to these small nations and their people and I think they deserve an apology sir!
Complain about this postAggers,
I feel you ought to reconsider your thoughts on Ireland & Bangladesh being in the Super 8. India/ Sri Lanka/ Bangladesh was always going to be a three-way fight for the top 2 positions, and Ireland only lost 1 game out of 3 in their group.
I saw your commentary of Ireland v England in the ODI in Belfast last summer, and felt your tone was patronising then. Irish cricket is developing, the performances against Kenya & Pakistan proved that, and I for one hope that Michael Vaughan & his team take us as lightly as you do, for I feel we have a realistic chance of winning that game.
Neil
Complain about this postIrish cricket fan.
completely pointless (ill informed) conclusions from Jonathan.
I am sick and tired of all the cricket correspondents suggesting that worldcup is devalued due loss of india and pakistan.
Jonathan failed grasp the fact india failed beat bangladesh. pakistan failed against Ireland. so in my book, Bang and Ire are deserved to be there. they won their matches. sports. THE RAIN DID NOT HAVE ANY BEARING.
Super 8’s will NOT be the duller or predicable as a result of the presence of Ireland and Bangladesh since it is not super8 IT IS SUPER6. So games will be more compertitive between bigger nations which makes it an INTERSTING viewing.
Complain about this postAgain I agree entirely with JA's sentiments about Bob Woolmer's death.
But not the rest of the article and the progress of the 'minnows'. India & Pakistan are not there because they underperformed against Bangladesh & Ireland respectively and both won only 1 game out of 3.
India must have the best group of batsmen in the competition, but they failed when the pressure was on against Sri Lanka.
That's the beauty of knock out tournements like the football world cup too, there's always surprises.
It's usually boring when the top teams play each other, think of football and FA cup, the supposedly dream final dream final is Man UtdvChelsea, well not for me it isn't. I'd rather it was Blackburn v Watford, all too often the same big money teams win it every time.
Back to the Cricket World Cup though, Sri Lanka & Australia are certs to get to the semis, you'd have to fancy NZ & W Indies to join them, though South Africa might nudge the latter out.
Hope I'm wrong but I can't see England getting there, their 1,2,3 are simply too slow (besides not scoring enough runs) and don't compare with the other top nations. We rely too heavily on Pieterson's batting against the top nations, and he's usually left with too much to do.
But if we do get to the semis anythings possible as we showed in the last 4 games of the Commonwealth Bank Series in Australia after some abject and pathetic earlier performances.
Complain about this postYour comments dont suprise me Aggers, but I certainly dont agree with all of them. Indeed, Bob Woolmers death has echoed loudly down the corridors of Cricket and I agree that it will overshadow the rest of the CWC.
Being a commentator on the majority of England matches that have been played over the last 6 months, it would be entirely understandable why you have a slightly cynical attitude towards the sport. This coupled with Englands almost unrelenting will to lose must further add fuel to the fire.
However, you talk about the Super 8's being dull and predicatble because of the presence of Ireland and Bangladesh; well what about the presence of England? Some might argue that we certainly dont seem to be anywhere near the same league as teams like Australia. In fact the horror of England losing to Kenya was all too real in my mind and I had this heart stopping moment of when England failed to qualify for the Football World Cup in 1994 and the whole country became Irish for 2 weeks.
Come on, everyone loves the underdog and the whole idea of minnows causing upsets is entertaining and in some cases, appealing. Im off to to the CWC in a few weeks to see the final five matches and I'll certainly be hoping that England can cause a few 'upsets' themselves.
Complain about this postAggers, Whilst i understand your disappointment at the failure of India and Pakistan to qualify for the Super 8 i must take issue with you regarding the progressof Ireland and Bangladesh.
The world cup is not exclusively for the top Test playing nations it is for member countries of the ICC and one of it's past winners is of Course Sri Lanka who 20 years ago were also "minnows". Both India and Pakistan posted pitiful scores against these lesser teams and fully deserved to lose. One wonders if complacency exists in the Test playing nations as the stories of Petersen and Flintoff scoffing at the Bermudan bowling in the warm up match made me angry.
Good luck to the "minnows" i hope that cricket flourishes in those countries as a result and that one day soon they will receive the recognition they deserve.
Ian Walker
Complain about this postTo say that Ireland and Bangladesh winning is "seriously damaging" to the tournament in the long run is quite pompous and elitist.
India against Pakistan were not good enough, so how could they be "good enough to compete against test-class nations" in the super 8?
The coverage of the Ireland win was viewed by millions around the world, many who had no previous interest in the sport. It was a great spectacle and did more good for cricket by broadening the interest in the sport than having the usual "test-class nations" in the super 8. The interest in those countries will still be there.
Complain about this postCompletely agree with you regarding Bob Woolmer, Aggers, but must take issue with your comments regarding the Associate nations. As many have said before me, Ireland and Bangladesh's progress have made this tournament far more watchable than the procession which would otherwise have occurred - see for example Scotland's performances in Group A... Sport should never a closed shop, something particularly which Sri Lanka should be grateful for. If proper support is not given to these emerging nations, then they will never be given the opportunity to achieve what the Sri Lankans have, particularly a country with such an enthusiasm for the sport as Bangladesh. If yours and others' attitudes were transferred to, for example, football, then the world cup would consist of France, Italy, Germany, Argentina and Brazil playing off in their own five-team group while the rest of the world is kept out. This is not the way for any sport to develop.
Complain about this post....Is the issue not that the super eight teams are more concerned about losing Face to said minnows?
God Bless you Bob!
Complain about this postFor those who dont undersatnd JA's point!!
end of the day, yes its a pity that we wont see 2 of the most passionate cricket nations fight it out in the super 8's.... but its true they deserve to be out because they simply werent good enough on the day.
Ireland and B'desh produced the goods, so deserve to be in the super 8's , as for the future of cricket the inclusion of these 2 minnows is a plus point, and I wouldnt be surprised if there are some more upsets. But I guess what JA is really trying to point out is that there is a very high chance that Ireland and B'desh will not win any further games and will fail to impress, which will lead us to thinking that the victories they enjoyed were fluke. I hope we all get proven wrong, as I hope these teams estabilish themselves on the top level, as this will only improve the future of the sport. Good Luck Ireland and B'desh!
Complain about this postThis blog is not representative of all views that are not contraversial or in any way justifies not passing the vetting by the blog owners.
The reason why this is not representative is because any critisism on JAs views that make the views of JA look ridiculous because they are do not see the light of day.
This will not be on either I daresay.
This should be an open blog unless the views are racist which should not be tolerated. Swear words can be simply left out if any one should not be able to communicate without such words.
But to not print letters because they say that what JA is saying is afront to all Irish and Bangladesh fans is comedic.
Complain about this postJ.A,
I hope you're man enough next weekend to admit you're wrong if Ireland pull off a win against England on Friday. Lets face it, it would be less of a shock than Ireland's win against Pakistan. I'm not saying its going to happen but for you to assume England will win is a bit naive.
And that goes out to all the bloggers who suggest that its a super 6 tournament.
Complain about this postCrikey Aggers, Could you be any more patronising toward the minnow nations? Biased as I am, coming from Dublin, but I find your comments bizarre at the very least.
Complain about this postWould you rather a nice, cosy cartel every four years featuring the 'major' nations only?
Perhaps Irish players should only allowed take catches with their left hands in the field to even things up?
We could draw up an O'Duckworth/McLewis system that would see minnows handicapped by runs/wickets down to avoid nasty upsets?
It's not as if India and Pakistan don't get enough practice with the one-day format . .
How can Aggers say that it is damaging for the smaller teams to progress...? Cricket needs to broaden its appeal and remember teams like Sri Lanka were minnows at one stage!
Bangladesh and Ireland qualified on merit and fully deserve their role in the Super 8's.
Complain about this postJonathan. I do not normally comment about articles on this site but your comments have angered me almost beyond words. I am so incensed by your remarks about Ireland and Bangladesh that I am almost speechless. You should be sacked. I read a lot of comments during the ashes series as well and also read all the crticism about you and your statements, but this latest article by you is absolutely the end. What happened to the real spirit of cricket. ? Are you one of those with a vested interested who only wants the rich, the snobs, the arrogant, the vested interests to win. ? The likes of Bangladesh, Ireland, and Bermuda bring something great and fresh and invigorating to cricket and show us that true cricket and the love of it and its being played for the principles of good cricket and from the heart are not completely lost to the present day emphasis on money and Pop culture stardom. How boring it would all be to see the likes of Australia, S.Africa, India and Parkistan flattening everybody else into submission. Its such a joy to watch the vigour, the passion, the fighting spirit, the laughs, the exuberence, and the skills of these so called 'minnows'. This is the true meaning of cricket and long may it continue. The refusal to walk when obviously out, the win at all costs mentality, the lack of sportsmanship, the 'professional' fouls and undue persuasion of umpires, which characterises the 'top' teams should be deplored, not applauded, which you appear to be doing all the time. Shame on you. !
Complain about this postFinally, surely cricket is bigger than just one man ? Your advocating the scrapping of this world cup because of what happened to Bob. ! Bob would turn in his grave if he were to know that such thoughts exist, to say nothing of all the millions in Bangladesh, Bermuda, Ireland, Kenya, and hundreds of millions more cricket lovers around the world. To be denied their lovely sport and the championing of their own Country because of all the troubles afflicting Parkinstan cricket. ? Come on now, you dont really believe that do you. ?
I am very, very disappointed in your attitude. Whilst I agree that Pakistan and India are wonderful sides and their matches against each other are wonderful spectacles, they have performed very poorly in this tournament. They deserve to be out. They have lost not only to a minnow but to one of their peers also.
I'll tell you what, why don't we go back a few years and not have Sri Lanka in the tournament either or South Africa. In fact why not go the whole hog and have red balls and uncovered pitches.
If you want cricket to be a global game then Ireland et al should be in. Who is to say that Bangladesh cannot beat England or run the West Indies close?
The teams in the super 8's are there on merit......not reputation.
JO
Complain about this postHave just read you blog that the death of the great coach will forever over shadow this worldcup not the departure of India & Parkistan They will now have to go back and sort them selves out the so called minnows are there because they are good enough on the day that is what one day games are about and respect must go to those who are through to the super 8 and as Bob would have said thats cricket
Complain about this postWhy are you always so negative Jonathan? Anyone would think you didnt even want England to qualify. Last week you mentioned on every single broadcast you gave saying how you were really worried for England against Kenya! Why I ask? I know we are not amazing at one day cricket but we still have 2 or 3 match winners that any team would love to have going into the Super 8's. Yes it will be tough to qualify, but the longest of long shots!?
On to India and Pakistan, would you rather the minnow teams never had a chance of qualifying? They have shown true fighting spirit unlike India and Pakistan who clearly would not have been good enough to win the competition as it is.
In future lets be a bit more positive about England's chances!
Complain about this postHi
Complain about this postBoth india and pak are not here becoz they were not gud enough.As simple as that.
As for ireland bangla match is i hope ireland win it.
I think if ireland are given test status they will show better results as compared to bangla.
Their infrastructure can be much improved.They have better physique.
Better sports culture
And great passion as well.
Playing tests in ireland for asian teams will be very difficult in those conditions and with bowl seaming test upsets will be more prone.
Ireland deserve test status as did kenya becoz they were much better than bangla 4 years ago as they showed reaching semiz in 2003.
Why does icc keeps its biasedness towards banlga when they haven't reached second round never in big tournaments.Except for this one.
Kenya , ireland are as good as bangla and better than zimbawe.They should be given test status......
Cheers
Hope england wins this edition of world cup........
I am disappointed that India & Pakistan are out of the cup, but I feel really happy for Bangladesh an Ireland for their achievement. They got there fair and sqaure.
India & Pakistan played poorly and miss out...
The only possible argument is that this format of the world cup does not give any team that starts off slowly... the 92 World cup saw Pak start off with 1 win, 2 Losses & a wash out. If that had happened in WC07 they would not have progressed.
So I think the best format is to have more first round matches hence giving the MINNOWS more games with test playing nations as well as a chance or 2 more to the slow starters...
Complain about this postI predict that England will not find the match against Ireland a walk over that on paper it will be.Australia have this world cup in the bag , their only realistic challenge now comes from south africa since india and pakistan are surprisingly no longer part of the compettition.so far flintoff has done nothing and we do seem to rely on him and pieterson in the big matches if we ever get a result.
is it now six matches that each tean has to play, so england will play all the others except new zealand who were in their group? if we had started the competition with a win against new zealand i would feel a lot more confident of their chances but to lose against a second rate team first off is just not good enough to win world cups i`m afraid. no, english cricket is back to where it was in recent years, the doldrums .
bill , kent, uk, aged 54.
Complain about this postI am an Indian fan, but I believe Bangladesh deserve to be in the Super 8. If India had reached that stage I doubt they would have won any games because of such poor form, Bangladesh could pull off some wins against NZ, West Indies or England.
Ireland also really deserve to be in the goup which qualify. It will improve cricketing prospects in these countries and spread cricket around the world.
India and Pakistan need to take a good hard look at everything which has gone wrong. There is just too much money and pressure in the sport in India...they remind me of the English football team in the last football world cup...individually they are brilliant but could not pull it off as a team
Complain about this postI disagree with the point regarding the inclusion of Ireland and Bangladesh in the Super 8 stage, Ireland beating Pakistan was the most exciting event of the tournament so far, and Bangladesh beating India was excellent too. This means quite simply they deserve their place in the 8's.
Complain about this postSuch snobbery for the established nations is what will destroy cricket longterm, other nations make it a tournament worthy of it's World Cup name.
I predict these two smaller nations may actually make the 8's more exciting, Aggers predictions have been awful so far, so nothing to worry about there!
Ireland and Bangladesh have actually made the Cricket World Cup a more interesting affair than the predictable outfit it was meant to be. As far as I can see it is the minnows who have provided most of the excitement in this World Cup. These teams have shown more spirit than any of the eight seeded teams in the tournament. Even if in the end they do get defeated by the bigger teams, what spectators want to see is the fight in the underdogs. That enduring spirit. The ability to shrug off destructive critisism from people like you and go out there to play to the best of their ability and cause an upset or two. That's the reason the soccer World Cup is so entertaining. Not knowing the outcome of the matches is half the excitement. We expect B'desh and I'land to be whitewashed in the super eights but won't it be interesting if to see Ireland defeat a country like Aussi or the Proteas??? Every dog has their day!
Complain about this postAggers, sorry mate but you are so wrong with the point about the 'minnows'
How is Cricket supossed to expand from the current 8 big teams (taking out Zimbabwe and B'desh) if you deny them progress in tournaments. The best thing to happen to cricket is when it will get more higherquality nations playing the game.
What needs looked at is the format of the tournament. this is not football where a lot of teams can compete on a consistant basis. Super 8's is to large and makes the tournament go on far to long. Why not extend up to 18 teams, play 3 groups of six in first round, top two qualify. Would allow the test nations more early game time and more exposure for the smaller nations. Teams would play 5 game in the first round and with points carrying on from the other qualifier, ie like NZ getting points fro beating England. Each team would then play 4 in the second round and then the semi finals.
The point people, about making it harder for England is simple. It is now four out of six, assuming that everybody beats ireland and b'desh (sorry guys but cant see you doing it again). Two teams already have points, Aus and NZ, that means engalnd, WI, sri lanka and SA have two wins, Aus and NZ three. One win from the teams on 2 wins will then not be enough, unless everybody beats everybody in a very strange way. England thus have to at least beat two out of, Aus, SA, WI or Sri lanka. Cannot see it happening people, and even then that may well be 4th in group and a meeting with Aussies in semi. If there was 8 'big' teams in this stage, will capacity to beat most others, less wins are neccesary to get through, and games against Aus and SA are less crucial
Complain about this postWhat does the columnist want from the WC? A competition where the favourites sometimes lose, a procession of the annointed 8, or a money making event which will bore us rigid over the next few weeks?
Good teams don't lose 2 out of 3 in qualifying, regardless of the opposition. SA, Australia and NZ seem to have grasped that.
Complain about this postIt's been difficult to focus on the cricket with the terrible death of Bob Woolmer, I understand that nothing is gained by the cancellation of the tournament but it seems inappropriate for teams to celebrate a victory against such a backdrop.
England longest of longshots, I beg to differ. Yes the 4 with points go in with a big advantage but as we have to believe we can despatch Ireland and Bangladesh 4th from 6 is not the longest of long shots. Add to this your own assertion that we will only know W Indies credentials when they face Australia tomorrow and that NZ have lost Vincent. Remember WI and Sri Lanka now only have victories against Ireland and Bangladesh to carry forward.
Australia and New Zealand are to real beneficiaries of the upsets so Englands task after despatching the minnows is to come second in a mini league of West Indies, Sri Lanka, South Africa and themselves. Difficult but not impossible
Complain about this postJonathan, your comments are disresectful to fans of Ireland and Bangla Desh-sides who have made enormous improvements on shoe-string budgets whilst fat cat England continues to stand still. The truth is that India and Pakistan were eliminated because they seriously under-performed.The reasons for those abject results are , I fear, little to do with bumpy pitches and white balls, but show corruption at the heart of cricket which pundits like your self are not prepared to acknowledge, since your own livelihoods depend on the perpetuation of such corrupt practices.
Complain about this postOn the terrible Bob Woolmer affair, I have just been looking through some of the Cricinfo articles. When speaking after the Ireland defeat on the evening before his death, Bob is quoted as saying that we "just stopped balls with our pads in front of our stumps". A strange thing to say when there were no lbw decisions given in the match against Pakistan during their innings and perhaps a bit more sinister when Sarfraz is also quoted by Cricinfo on the following day before the awful news came through that "it seemed that the umpires also seemed to be wanting Pakistan to win but the body language of the team reflected that they wanted to lose".
Complain about this posthas anyone thought about the financial consequences for india and pakistan being eliminated so early?? The huge amounts of money involved with TV rights, sponsorship deals etc. are only possible because of pakistan and primarily, India. We cannot argue with this. The audience for the world cup has just dropped by over a billion in the space of a few days... not sure if the financiers are too happy about that!!! best of luck to bangladesh and ireland.. they are there on merit.. pakistan, on paper, the most talented side in the world.. they really need a kick up the backside.. india, even though i enjoy watching them, im afraid are just a spent force now.. they need to inject new blood now. I will miss the likes of tendulkar and most of all dravid.. who over the years has shown exemplary sportsmanship. Finally, yes Mr Agnew, the world cup will not be the same without a Pak v India match. I hope Bob Woolmer's murderers are brought to justice.. RIP Bob.. you were a legend. from a very upset Pak fan.
Complain about this postYou've got to feel sorry for the associate nations (and the "smallest" test ones too). If they turn up and lose all their games then people say they should never have been there in the first place. If they defy expectation and surprise a bigger nation then people say they are lowering the quality of the World Cup, or even worse, instantly presume it must be due to match fixing. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
The comment about snobs was correct. I get the feeling that, for many people, the likes of Ireland, Scotland, Bangladesh etc. are meant to take on the role of "seen but not heard" at this tournament. Especially by the people who want to protect their own positions in the game, namely the big nations. I can't think of any other sport where such an attitude is so prevalent.
Complain about this postWhy bother inviting the smaller nations if you don't want them to progress? This is the nature of a knockout tournament format, and as such if the 'bigger' nations aren't good enough to beat the 'smaller' nations then why on should they progress.
As far as Bob Woolmer's murder goes, I still can't quite believe it.
Complain about this postYes, the so called minnows deserved to get thru as they had 1 better day against the Test playing teams.
But what JA is simply stating, that the competetion becomes more "predictable" and one-sided affair for the games involving minnows especially against the likes of Australia and SA who at the moment seem to be tearing apart bowlers and even class bowlers like Shaun Pollock of SA was shredded over the weekend. This form does not bode well for the "minnows" and I fear, many new records will be set.
Either the "minnows" will learn from this or they can be de-moralised. Let's hope it's the former. With India & Pakistan in, there would have been case of teams beating each other and making it more unpredicatble. That is all what JA is alluring to. Yes, the minnows have done well and this is what they have aimed for i.e. to get to S8's. Now their aim will change for the next goal. Semis.
And let's not forget that, whether we like it or not, the potential loss of revenue from the games involving India & Pakistan. I know for sure that the games between these 2 teams would have been sold many times over, but Bangladesh v/s Ireland, I am not sure will be packed to the rafters. I know who the WI economy would have preferred. But, I think what has happened will give the Indians & Pakistanis a jolt that they probably deserve and hope they do better when the next host the WC.
Complain about this posti think this world cup is unfair because poor india has to leave caribbean. i dont think world cup in caribbean is any good world cup tournament to anybody. like india, they are good side and most strongest side but they didnt feel this world cup works for them. from our group, i have to say i would like credit to performances sri lanka and bangladesh. i dont think bangladesh will able to go and make it but certainly did but hope they do the same to some teams like new zealand, australia, south africa and others aswell.
Complain about this postamar (india team fan)
Aggers it really pains me to say this but why why why do you always put the lesser nations down?
Good of the game? In what sense? What about the good of the game in these other non Test playing countries. At any World Cup in any sport there are upsets - Trinidad and Tobago v Sweden and Senegal v France in football. The Tongans and Samoans in Rugby and this is what they live for - To compete against the best. Please can you get rid of this elitist attitude you have in your reports and even in interviews (re: BBC NI when you chated to Jackie Fuller when Ireland beat West Indies at Stormont) as it doesn't make good journalism, which normally you are very good at.
Wes
Complain about this postThanks for the hot tip on India to win the world cup Aggers. You had me convinced, so I put £100 on it.. Hmmm
Complain about this postI don't have time to read all the comments to your blog, JA, but if they are all in line with the general consent in the top 8 or so, I agree wholeheartedly. I can see no way for lesser nations (including Bangladesh and Zimbabwe at the moment, which I don't rate as superior to Holland, Scotland or Ireland) to improve, if they don't play against better teams. Would you cancel the football team's match against Andorra as well?
I rate you as one of the best critics in the game, but by golly, will you please stop this minnow-bashing?
Complain about this post"The Super 8’s will be the duller and more predicable as a result of the presence of Ireland and Bangladesh, rather than India and Pakistan."
It seems odd that people are complaining about how unpredictable results are making hte WC predictable. Should we have hoped that the groups were predictable to give an 'unpredictable' super 8, then the super 8 was predictable to give 'unpredictable' semis, then the semis were predictable to ... and so on.
Either you want unpredictability, or you don't. You can't complain that all the unpredictabiliyt is making things predictable.
Complain about this postThe tragic loss of Bob Woolmer has certainly overshadowed the whole tournament.
What has surprised me regarding the games has been the fact that some have been disrupted by the weather.
Should the tournament have been played at this time of season ?
Complain about this postSri Lanka beating Australia was the best ever world cup. And no one predictd that at the start!
So don't ever say that Ireland and Bangladesh getting through is bad, they are there on merit, not reputation.
If we don't want them to win then don't include them in the tournament. But I thought Bangladesh beating India was fantastic and who is to say they can't go on. Surely that is what we want to give the tournement life.
Complain about this postBig team play for four years work hard for each game to win .
They win or loose vs big team but after four years in world cup
just loosing one game to Ireland(only one win vs pak or Bangladesh(They lost 14 games to india and 2 win) they are out of world cup. Is it worth that India or PaK going out of world cup. Last time Kenya was only one team in super 8 just by winning one game but this time two teams(Ireland and Bangladesh )which makes world cup boring knowing
All big team will win vs reland and Bangladesh so
Aus all ready with 6 points
SouthAfrica - 4 points
Nz - 6 points
All baove team need to win one more match and they will be in Semi
SL/WI/ENG will fight for one place . It doesn't make any sense.
I think this world cup is worst worldcup.
Complain about this postAkash
I cannot agree with Jonathan's comments regarding the Associate nations. In any sport part of the thrill is the 'weaker' side coming through. It happens in football, what would the FA Cup be without the Yeovil's, Chesterfield's, Sutton United's of the past, for example.
I am old enough to remember India, New Zealand and West Indies touring England and being heavily beaten, sometimes bowled out for under 100, and where are they now? How long ago was it the the then relatively new boys, Sri Lanka won the World Cup?
If we want cricket to progress on the World Stage then smaller nations must be encouraged not excluded. The answer lies in the Test Nations and their Boards taking greater responsibilty for supporting all these nations financially and with coaching and regular fixtures against Test sides A or under 21 teams plus helping them establish a sound 'First Class' structure in those countries. Perhaps a share of the vast TV rights sums could be diverted for this purpose?
It is a long term process, after all how many years did it take for New Zealand to compete on equal terms with, say, Australia and England? No one takes NZ lightly these days!
Well done Ireland and Bangladesh, it is a joy to see such success.
Complain about this postCome on everyone, Aggers has a valid point. Not that Bang and Ire are through, it gives teams like England, Windies and South Africa a better chance of making it through to the SUper 8's, and to be honest, a lot of the XXX vs Bang and XXX vs Ire are going to be one sided and boring.
Think about it, if India or Pak were through, do you really think they would have been walkovers? I think both those teams have a better chance of beating Australia than the other remaining teams in the Super 8, its just that they also have the best chance of losing against weaker sides like Ireland becuase of their inconsistency.
Complain about this postThe progress of Bangladesh and Ireland could well prove to be a significant and welcome watershed for the WC. Too often in the past, the expected progress of the major test nations has renedered the 1st group stages almost pointless and the "minnows" have been left feeling dispirited and excluded. In future tournaments, the big fish will start the competition being acutely aware that they cannot cruise to the next atage and treat the smaller teams as glorified practice sessions.
if nothing else, Ireland & Bangladesh will get invaluable experience which will serve them well in the future. How else can they progress without playing top class teams in a competitive environment.
Complain about this postNo point speculating on how it will alter Englands chances. Regardless of who else you play, you cannot win this competition without beating teams lihe Australia, South Africa and the hosts.
There is no doubt that the incident involving Bob Woolmer has cast shadows of doubt over corruption in the sport of cricket. I believe however that there is no chance that Pakistan would lose world cup games of such magnitude on purpose.
Complain about this postI think it is a shame that arguably crickets two best supported nations are out of the competition. India and Pakistans fans are brilliant and their vibrance will be missed greatly.
THis should mean however that England only need to win 2 games out of 4 to reach the semi - finals - with Bangladesh and Ireland looking like strong possibility's of victory's. I am backing England to reach the semi - finals, beating Sri - Lanka, Ireland, Bangladesh and South Africa.
Come on England!!
I wonder what odds were at the start of the tornament that both Pakistan and India would be knocked out before the super 8's ?
Complain about this postThe circumstances of Mr Woolmers passing will place an ever baring scar on Cricket. This is our saddest moment in Cricket. It will never be forgotten.
Complain about this postICC failed to organise the tournament.
Just compare with the WC footbal held in Germany. How much securities thay have deployed... its total shame to ICC only.
We lost on fantastic person
Complain about this postAs a fairweather cricket supporter, I am more likely to watch the Ireland v Sri Lanka game than West Indies v Sri Lanka if nothing more than the novelty of it and the chance of another upset.
Surely that's the point of a showcase like the World Cup, bringing in a new audience who wouldn't normally watch the game. The profile of cricket in Ireland will have increased markedly whereas Cricket will still be watched in future in Pakistan and India despite their loss this time.
Complain about this postAggers seems to be speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
Complain about this postOn the one hand he maintains that playing or indeed commentationg on the World Cup is pointless, and on the othe hand he says Woolmer wuld have wanted the showpiece of cricket to go on. Fact is whie Woolmer was being killed so were thousands of other people on that day. More were dying of hunger or being cut down by senseless war. Yet we continue to play sport live, party, eat heartily etc etc.
It is sad when someone you know passes on but hey life goes on for the rest of us and so should the world cup. Im sure Aggers would be more upbeat if England go onto win the WC and he is commentating on the final.
Of course if its really pointless for aggers he could always go home and let someone else do the job.
By the way if Ireland go all the way to the final would that really be so bad for the game? I think not. Irishmen across the globe would suddenly develop a love for cricket. Thats the whole point of having minnows in any sport.
Sri Lanka, and even the West Indies were minnows once.
J.A,
The inclusion of the Minnows in the super 8's boils down to two points.
1) Long terms benefits for Cricket.
2) Short term (next 6 weeks) perceived enjoyment by you and other critics of Minnows
1) Think of how many Irish kids, Men and women are talking about cricket. About what? Yes cricket! How many Irish and Bangladishes mums and dad will be pushing the kids out the door and shouting "Get out there and play some cricket"? How many kids will get Cricket bats for the birthdays and Christmas? How many new members will the Irish and Bangladishes cricket clubs get. How many new clubs will be established.How much money will that bring in?
How more competitive will these countries be in the future and how many other minnows nations will be inspired and experence the same new interest of cricket in the countries.How many new fans of cricket will there be. IN 10-15 YRS HOW MANY "TEST NATIONS" WILL THERE BE?
OR
2) Will you be entertained over the next 6 weeks?
Jonathan you chose?
Complain about this postGood morning.
The sadness at the death of Bob Woolmer is appreciated by cricket followers around the world, and the manner in which the TMS team has handled the situation with respect and sensitivity is also commended.
Complain about this postMay I comment on the rather negative commentries associated with the English matches over the past couple of weeks. Having listened to the commentry of the Australian-S.Africa game on Saturday, there was a lightness in the commentary, and even though bowlers were getting hammered, there was still encouragement when bowlers bowled a "dot" ball. The English bowlers and fielders were generally criticised.
Let's have some encouragement!
I don't believe it is right that people say Ireland and Bangladesh going through is bad. How do we know Ireland or Bangladesh can't spring another shock oir two between them or each? Lest we forget, in a warm up game,
Complain about this postBangladesh beat New Zealand and Ireland reduced SA to 82/8, before eventually getting them all out for 192 and not losing by more than 30 runs I think. This shows these 'minnows' can compete and even more proof of this is Ireland v Canbada in a warm up game. Whereas we laboured vs Canada, only winning by 50 runs and not getting them allout and if not for a rescue by Collingwood and some injudicious shots by the Canadians early on in their reply, then we could have lost. On the flip side, how did Ireland do? Why they got the same Canada team 115ao inside 26 overs, before knocking off the runs inside 25 pvers...much more comfortable than England's clash with Canada, especially witht he bowling.
I disagree with the comments about the minnows. The World Cup is the main target for most of them and to remove some of them would not help cricket's global develpment. Take a look at the football world cup or the rugby world cup, there are nations there who will almost inevitably be beaten by the bigger nations yet no-one was saying that Trinidad & Tobago's prescence in the football world cup damaged the tournament. I would like to see the test nations play the minnows more often that way they will improve and there will be a more level playng field.
I personally cannot see the point in the "Super 8"'s they seem to only be there to lessen the chance of the minnows causing a major upset and to increase the mount of cash that can be milked out of the event. I would rather see the competion go straight to quarter-finals after the group stage and if a country has an off day and loses to a minnow then so be it.
Complain about this postSorry Aggers you normally talk good sense, and the remarks about Woolmer show that, but your comments on the "minnows" are well off beam.
Complain about this postIt adds spice to the world cup and who knows maybe Bangledesh or Ireland will get a good pitch or a rainy day and beat an Australia or England. Well I say great, that is what sport is about.The Ireland Pakistan game was some of the best TV cricket I have seen for years, (apart from the Oval Ashes test)
If you only want the "best teams" in the world cup then work it out on paper every time off the one day rankings. Save the cost of everyone turning up.
To the person who said that Aggers' world cup predictions had been exposed somewhat - perhaps this is because JA never normally bothers to commentate / report on one-day series. I guess anyone who only takes an interest in the 50-over format of the game once every four years is going to be a pretty lousy tipster!
Complain about this postThe contest is undoubtedly poorer for the absence of India and Pakistan but that was always the risk the ICC were taking when bloating the World Cup to it's current ludicrous proportions. Given their slipshod approach to the tournament neither team deserve an ounce of sympathy and I certainly have none for the avaricious ICC.
Ireland will lose all of their subsequent matches, probably by large margins but the presence of Bangladesh does offer some consolation. They have improved in both forms of cricket and I would not be surprised to see them upset one or more of the established nations. England certainly look ripe for the taking and they already have a victory over New Zealand in the warm ups.
If Bangladesh can use the World Cup as a foundation for continued improvement the elimination of the two sub-continent giants might, in the long term, be good for cricket.
Complain about this postThis is becoming typical of Agnew, I'm afraid. He was moaning about the minnows before the world cup, about the meaningless games that involved teams too weak to compete, and now he's complaining that they're going through having beaten 'bigger' teams. Ireland's win over Pakistan and Bangladesh's victory over India have earned them their places.
ODI cricket is more of a lottery than Test cricket - that's a fact. If you're going to base your World Cup on this form of the game you're going to have more 'shock' results. Live with it!
Complain about this postAggers said
[quote][i]"Those teams are simply not good enough to compete against test-class nations with the consistency required to make the World Cup the spectacle it has to be to showcase the game at its best."[/i][/quote]
The idea of a showcase is to promote the game. Will the game become more popular in Ireland and Bangladesh now? Almost certainly.
Is Pakistan and India out going to make it a financial disaster? Almost certainly.
R.I.P. Bob Woolmer, he will be missed by all cricket fans for his influence and thought on the game.
I'd like to think that the tournament continued because it's what Bob would have wanted.... But sadly I suspect that it continues because of the money. I feel that the ICC have stopped trying to make enough money to run and improve the game and now they are trying [i]to make as much money as possible[/i]
Complain about this postFor me the competition is over shadowed by Bob but I feel it is best continued. As for the Minnows in the competition a greater benefit to the game in general is served by their partici[ation and the victories they have had to put them in the Super Eight show what is possible and will only help to rpomote the game to a wider audience. As for England How many teams start competitions badly and go on to win them?
Complain about this postIf only Mr. Agnew could recognise the need for cricket to grow outside the status quo. The publicity that has been gained by the Irish performances over the last week and a half has been unbelievable. It has made both back and front pages of every national paper. As someone who has played cricket in Ireland for the last 20 years, it is easy to see that Irish Cricket has potential but has lacked a spark to get the game into the public eye. Irish people are now understanding that the game in Ireland is not just for toffs but played by a small but very diverse range of people. And who is to say the Bang v Ire match won't be more entertaining? I do believe that the format at the 91 WC was fairer - (One win should not get you through to the next stages). The ironic thing is that the new format has been set up in order to eliminate the minnows as early as possible in order to allow bigger tv audiences watch "THE BIG TEAMS." C'mon Bang and Ire!!!!
Complain about this postAggers,
firstly as a cricket lover I was saddened to hear of the death of Bob. When I found out it was a wrongful death I was shocked and appalled that this could have happened in the sport I truely love. Rest in peace Bob. Now, as an Irishman I have to say your comments on minnows are wholey inappropriate and being honest your tone offends me. Did Ireland get 3 points in the group and BEAT Pakistan? Why do you insist on insulting the efforts of any minnow team in firstly reaching the world cup and secondly playing so well against pakistan and India. Dont forget it wasnt that long ago that we beat the West Indies, and almost beat England in Belfast last year. Are you scared to get beaten Aggers ? It is only by playing against the best teams in the world do minnows improve. Sri Lanka have the potential to be World Cup Winners again and it really wasnt that long ago that they were considered a minnow. Come on Aggers highlight the joys of the sport, Ireland beating Pakistan and Bangladesh beating India have been the games of the tournament so far. I'm looking forward to the first game against England, there will be 12 irishmen on the pitch that day.
Complain about this postWhat must the non-test playing countries do to be accepted by the cricketing establishment?
First we're told that they shouldn't be at the world cup because they're not good enough and it will lead to boring, predictable results in the group stages. Then when two of them actually cause some far from boring upsets and make it through to the super eight we're told that this is bad for the game!
Complain about this postI'm so tired of hearing about how the Super 8s will be the poorer because Ireland and Bangladesh are in them. This is incredibly disrespectful to those two teams efforts, and smacks of the 'old boys club'.
India and Pakistan weren't good enough on the day, and therefore deserve to go home. Ireland and Bangladesh beat them fair and square.
Complain about this postWho says Bangla Desh are minnows? They didn't play like them.
Complain about this postYou're right about the WC being in shadow after Bob Woolmer's murder, may he rest in peace. If there's any justice in the world, his murderers will be caught and made an example of.
But I have to say, I have just read the most shockingly insulting statement about the so-called 'minnows'. Ireland and Bangladesh both just played better on the day and more importantly, they seemed to want it more! Anyone following cricket will tell you that India and Pak have been talented but volatile teams... in fact, they often seem to be more an assemblage of persons than a team given the lack of cohesion they so often display. Is it any wonder that they get beaten in the manner that they do?
And if Bob Woolmer's murder does indeed have anything to do with match-fixing and the sub-continent is the hotbed of such despicable activities (as most BBC reports seem to suggest), then it is perhaps fortituous that these 'giants' get knocked out early and their cricket boards are forced to clean up their respective acts.
Good luck to Ireland and Bangladesh! They may not be great cricketing teams, but they at least show a certain amount of spirit on the field that the 'bigger, better' teams lack.
Complain about this postI disagree with your comment that the super 8 will be dull without India and Pakistan. India and Pakistan were way below par and therefore should not be in that round. All eight teams deserve their place because they played for it. Pakistan was my second best team before the world cup (after my team West Indies of course), but when they lost to West Indies without much of a fight u know one of the lessor team was going to cause an upset.As a West Indian , I would love my team to win and as you say we will see how competitive they could be on tuesday because so far they have not been tested by anyone. I am looking forward to Ireland and Bangladesh games because u can sense an upset somewhere down the line. Cricket is after all a game of glorious uncertainities.
Complain about this postDear Jonathon
I agree with all your comments regarding Bob Woolmers death, as it is without a doubt awful and shocking. It has transcended the game and makes one question whether it is worth it.
I however, do not agree with your comments on India and Pakistan. I will lose no sleep knowing that they are not in the super 8's as they were obviously not up to the task. To suggest that it demeans the world cup is wrong and frankly insulting to Bangladesh (who can be compared to Sri Lanker when they first started ) and Ireland. They made it by playing the better cricket and therefore deserve to be in the latter stages of the world cup.
Minnows will always be around hoping for glory and it will be interesting to see if a minnow makes the semi final.... if they do good for them!!!!!
Complain about this postAfter losing to Ireland all we heard was the Indians gloating about the misfortune of Pakistan. So how does it feel now. A population of 1 billion and they cannot produce 11 players. What a shame. Well done Bangladesh.
Complain about this postIt is such a shame that a tournament that was developing so nicely has been struck by this terrible tragedy. It is a shame for the "minnows" that their moment in the spotlight has been clouded by the events surrounding Bob Woolmer's death. How can it be that cricket is repeatedly in the middle of controvery relating to match fixing. If match fixing is prevalent in the game, certain groups of people, eg players, umpires, officials, bookies must surely suspect it or be aware of it. If that is the case then something can be done to prevent it and to rid cricket of those involved. At least things have gone too far this time and if Bob Woolmer's death was related to match fixing then it should result in measures being taken by the ICC to stop match fixing once and for all
Complain about this post