Whitewash looms for deflated England
England are facing the grave prospect of a 5-0 Ashes whitewash after closing a mere 12 runs ahead of Australia with only five rather fragile wickets intact.
Player of the Day
Shane Warne top scored for Australia, and for a while was on course to score his first Test century in his final Test. He hit his first two balls for four and six, but should have been dismissed on 10.
Umpire Aleem Dar clearly did not see the ball touch Warne's glove off a Monty Panesar delivery which was pouched by Chris Read.
This completely incensed the England fielders - and Paul Collingwood at slip in particular.
The sledging that followed only served to fire Warne up and, in his typically unorthodox fashion, he bludgeoned his way to 71, and took Australia from a deficit of 101 to a match-winning lead of 102.
Key Moment
Umpiring errors are part and parcel of the game, and must be accepted as such.
But England had another chance to dispose of Warne on 10, which had nothing to do with the umpires.
Taking a second run to the non striker's end , Warne was well short of his ground when the throw from James Anderson arrived.
Sajid Mahmood's casual attempt to run him out was utterly craven - I am not sure he was even aware of the situation - and Warne escaped.
That would have been 270-7, still 21 runs behind, and England can blame only themselves for missing the opportunity.
Talking Point
The main talking was between Warne and Collingwood, and this was clearly audible on the pitch microphones.
Warne responded to Collingwood's views on the catch behind by ridiculing his award of the MBE when England won the Ashes in 2005.
Admittedly Collingwood's contribution in his one appearance was not necessarily overwhelming, but this was given to the team as a whole.
Warne was heard to call him a 'club cricketer' (Collingwood scored 206 at Adelaide) and continually said that his award was 'an embarrassment'. On and on he went until, finally, he was the last man out.
Prospects for day three
The first 5-0 whitewash for 86 years.
Aggers, yes, Dar did miss that Warne gloving but the bowden decision to give gilchrist out was a shocker and that may have saved England from total decimation today. As you rightly point out, england had plenty of other chances to catch, run out or put pressure on and it didnt happen.
Complain about this postWell, what could we expect?
An England team giving up and playing awful cricket. Of course not...
I wake up each morning, turn on the computer and am faced with an England team disintegrating in front of my eyes.
Where's the team spirit? The desire to win?
Pathetic. Just pathetic.
Complain about this postThe MBE's given to the entire team WERE a joke. Like Boycott said this morning on the podcast, he played 100+ tests for his and now these gongs are being given out willy nilly.
Complain about this postIts good night and good bye. Your boys took one hell of a beating!
Complain about this postI'm a passionate Aussie and love my cricket, so you'd think I would be absolutely over the moon about what is likely to be a 5-0 caning of the Poms. But somethings missing... Did I get tricked last year into thinking England were a great team - or were they just an average team playing fantastically. Are they still a great team playing poorly? I'm happy about the result cos it will give me an upper hand in the banter at work, but I would have loved to have 2-1 in a thrilling series. Major dissapointment, not only for England fans, but for cricket followers. Freddie and Co should be ashamed.
Complain about this postWarney is right regarding Collingwood MBE as it is a joke but in the main it was FUN.
Complain about this postThanks for your views, Mr Agnew: interesting as always. By the way, "finally" is misspelt in the last sentence of the penultimate paragraph.
About the only thing that I've enjoyed about this series is the coverage here on the BBC website. I particularly enjoy reading the over-by-over commentaries, which are always pertinent and often highly amusing. Congrats to the chaps involved.
In response to your selection and assessment of the "key moment", two quick points:
1. Mahmood's error, which was schoolboy stuff, shows how poor England are at some of the basics of the game. Batsmen not moving their feet, batsmen playing the wrong shot at the time, bowlers unable to bowl with any reasonable accuracy: these are the symptoms of England 2006-7. Not moving behind the stumps in readiness for a return from the field is the sort of thing my eight year-old son might be upbraided for by his coach.
2. Your "key moment" involved an England bowler, but not when he was actually bowling. How predictable. From what I saw of our efforts today and across the series, our bowlers are far from matching the consistency of good line and good length that the Australians - and others - take as requisite for cricket at this level.
It is not necessarily that England are not talented enough. We are simply not accomplished enough.
Thanks again for your coverage.
Complain about this postAnd so commences another generation of Australian cricketing dominance. We don't need Warnie, Pidge, Alfie or Marto as England are so good at shooting themselves in the foot. Hell, I reckon we could field a team of blind, one legged dwarfs and still pull off a whitewash.
Ha ha ha ha, better luck next time fellas.
Complain about this postWarne is the greatest sledger never to be reprimanded. I guess it takes a bit of intelligence to talk ill of your opponent without swearing!
Complain about this postI suppose people from the subcontinent dont get away with sledging becuase they are not native english speakers!
I'm still amused that Monty was sent in as night watchman to protect our 'recognised' batsman Read
Complain about this postThe nightmare is about to come to an end.
This tour has been a complete disaster with further pain awaiting us in the one-dayers.
Everything that can be said about how this nightmare came about has been said.
Complain about this postI am expecting an announcment by the Queen sometime soon announcing that she is awarding MBE's to the Austrlian Cricket team for their 5-0 whitewash of the ashes. Considering that it would only be the second time that it has happened it is surely deserved especialy as her title is Queen of Australia.
Complain about this postIn regards to the umpires, it's swings and round abouts, mate. Gilchrest was never out and yet he was given.
Complain about this postNeither decision will decide this test match.
Hilarious...I thoroughly enjoyed Warne last night, he will be missed!
Complain about this postI think the umpiring has been disgraceful throughout the series. That shouldn't excuse England's obvious failings, but it's a shame. Whatever happened to the notion of a batsman walking ? Hussey should have walked 1st innings, even Ponting hung around waiting for the most obvious of run-out dismissals. I don't think England can be considered angels, but this 'great' Australian side could show decorum and still win plenty. That said, JL always comes across as a gent. Unlike the others, he'll be missed as a player and a person.
Complain about this postWell it all started out as tonk-a-pom & finished as pom-a-tonked.
You guys have been comprehensively flayed! Thanks for providing the entertainment, though, I really enjoyed it!!! How about you?
On a more serious note, full credit to you guys. Close game really. Score-line didn't reflect the match. Keenly fought contest. Cricket was the winner....anything else you want me to add?
Ahhhhh, god that was GREAT. You know that feeling when you've already won convincingly, by an amount equal to the maximum possible margin, having lost the previous one last year, but the game gets to go on tomorrow as well, and the next day after that if we want it to? When you can just sit back all evening and all day next day & just smile & chill with a cold one in the hot sun, hang on a moment - AH, YEAH MAKE THAT 3 SCHOONERS COBBER, NO SORRY MAKE IT 4, ONE FOR ME SHIELA AS WELL, YEAH PUT IT ON THE TAB WILL YA BRUCE? - sorry, where were we? yeah so the cricket...do you know what I'm talking about? No? Oh, OK then....
Complain about this postIs there a case for batsmen to be encouraged to walk when they know that they are out? Difficult to "prove" that they know (or knew), I suppose. I can't say that I'm a big fan of sledging but it appears to have a place, rightly or wrongly, in nearly every level of every sport.
I agree with JA that Warne's wicket could have been secured at a number of occasions but contributions from Symonds, Gilchrist and Clark all helped to elevate Australia's score. If England's tail can add as many runs then it could be interesting - the likes of Mahmood and Read have a chance, however pressured, to prove their batting worth.
Perhaps Pietersen has the opportunity to show that he can control the game by handling his batting in these circumstances - keeping the strike, playing sensible shots, etc. Rather ironic that he got moved up to 4 to avoid batting with the tail!
However it looks from experience, I hope that England can make a proper fist of this and show that they do have the guts and passion to make it as hard as possible for the Australians.
Complain about this postTypical of the Aussies to use England's MBEs to undermine them. One narrow series victory and we believed ourselves to be the best in the world, our players worthy of honours that others work a lifetime to achieve.
Such pride, if not backed up by an unquenchable appetite to improve and a ruthless hunger for victory, will always lead to a fall. And how they have fallen.
it's a dismal end to the chapter that began in the summer of 2005, it's time to write a new chapter with a new coach, a new captain and real desire and ambition.
Complain about this post"Umpire Aleem Dar clearly did not see the ball touch Warne's glove off a Monty Panesar delivery which was pouched by Chris Read"
Benefit of the doubt, Aggers, unlike Bowden's boneheaded decision which cost Gilchrist a likely century.
Complain about this postanyone else dead keen to read a script of the Warne v Colly sledging?
Complain about this postI so want to see it... cmon BBC!
Why so much fuss about the Warne glove catch Aggers??You mentioned it all the time this morning.Gilchrist was given out when he wasn't so it was one-all in the umpire error stakes today & Gilchrist could have really made us suffer!!!
Complain about this postBesides on commentary last summer you reckoned overcoming bad umpiring decisions was good for a cricketer's character!! Vic Marks I recall responded that on that basis we should have as many bad decisions as possible & so produce a generation of cficketers of strong moral fibre.
No complaints really .. the Aussies have been superior in both thought and deed. BUT ... the umpiring decisions against England have been dire and as always happens have occured at precisley the moment where a real break was needed. Warne was clearly out on 10 and then made 60 more .. a lead of 100+ instead of simply 40. What do England have to do?
Complain about this postWell, I have to say that I dont think Australia have been that great, but to see how we have bowled, fielded and batted shows how good we have made them look.
Complain about this postWhy are the press not having a go at the batting and bowling coaches, as something drastic has changed. Look at Flintoffs approach to Warne, and Andersons comments about bowling shorter rather than pitching it up. Terrible Dave
I think Warne's right about Collingwoods MBE, but then again he could take the p*** out of all of our 'honoured????' team, because not one of them deserve the honour. Still, maybe it kept Tony Blair happy!!!!
Complain about this postIf we're allowed to see videos of Saddam's hanging, can the BBC please release a tape of the Warne/Collingwood exchanges? We've got to get some entertainment out of this sorry series...
Complain about this postInitially thought that Warne had gloved Panesar's delivery, but after a number of replays there was still considerable doubt. Indeed from one particular angle the Sky commentary team were calling it a very good decision. Warne's bat did hit his boot which might have contributed to the feeling that there had been contact.
Complain about this postDoesn't alter the fact that it was an excellent effort from Warne with some agricultural shots mixed in with some fine strokes.
Collingwood's sledging of Warne was comical, it only served to fire Warne up. Flintoff should have told Collingwood to button it.
First things first: Australia are not half as great as England's woeful performance has made them appear. They are eminently beatable, but who's willing to bet against Australia wrapping up its second three-day test victory of the series? The only success that England can claim is that Australia have had to play more than 15 days of cricket to whitewash the series. Since they have capitulated in every other sense in this series, how about the England team just recognise the inevitable and concede the match? They could start to work on their preparations for the world cup in WI a day earlier. They need all the time they can wangle. Nothing I have seen or heard suggests to me that the forthcoming campaign is likely to be anything other than a disaster. In fact, with a bit of luck they will be eliminated from this competition at a fairly early stage. They can then go home and start to try to do something about the malaise in English cricket generally. There needs to be a general recognition that, with the exception of a few brief interludes, English cricketers have been technically and psychologically weaker that their Aussie counterparts for the past 35 years. I do not believe they have been generally less talented, they have just made less of their gifts and skills. All the changes made to the county game and the setting up of a "cricket academy" have produced zero improvement in this regard. This needs to be recognised at all levels of the game and the players themselves have to be fed up with producing second or third rate performances. Only then will they be deserving of the exceptional support they receive from their fans.
Complain about this postInflated ego and more concerned with magazine deals. And for once i'm not talking about Shane Warne. The England team arrived in Australia with the expectation of the country and again they failed to deliver. How long can they trade off the ashes victory in 2005? 5-0 whitewash, thorughly deserved.
Disgruntled England fan.
Complain about this postI am wrong, so so wrong
Complain about this postI knew Mahmood wasnt good enough to play one dayers, I thought he was good enough to play test matches. He is not. His attitude seems very wrong, he could easily have run out Warne if he had done what every Kid is taught when they start playing cricket. Awful!!
The flower of English cricket has been de-blossomed, will our players ever recover from the psychological scarring? The champagne stuff of last year has turned sour. Never mind, it was like this all through the nineties. I'll still support our boys anyway.
Complain about this postagian england crash
and again KP is batting for himself
last over of the day and he gets a single to avoid batting (chicken) and leaves monty to see out the over
who is the specialist batsman? monty or KP
anyway a gutless tour by england
Complain about this posthopefully it will be over when i wake up tomorrow
This really has a horrible feeling of inevitability about it. We'll be lucky if its not all wrapped up by lunch tomorrow. I'm not looking forward to turning the radio on. Despite all the talk and tales of how England are going to pick themselves up and really take it to the Aussies the same thing has happened again and again this tour. Glimmers of good play, a sessoin where we really look like we can take control and then total capitulation. That is what is so frustrating as an England supporter. The ability is there and the talent but we're just not consistent. What is lacking? Is it the will? Concentration? I can already hear the weak comments made in retrospect by the senior players and coaching staff. It'd be great for somebody to front up and tell it like it is (A la Gordon Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares - don't take shoddy excuses!)
Complain about this postAs for Warne's comments, can't Colly come up with something decent? Put him back in his place? The banter is stuff of legend when done properly.
what can i say the english have been appalling to say the least and it would have been nice to have a contest on our hands.but i must say it has been good watching them getting walloped down here in zimbabwe
Complain about this postAggers - I don't buy this praise of Colly. A plucky cricketer he is - but Test Class ?? His 200 at adelaide was made on a wicket which gave the bowlers absolutely nothing. The guys technique is fragile - and the Aussies have found him out big time. If there's any help at all to the bowlers Colly just simply fails.Surely to goodness there must be a classier no 5 in English Cricket than Paul Collingwwod. And yes I think its very fair for Warne to mock the MBE given to Colly - and Bell come to that. Colly played one test. bell failed in virtually all of them.
Peter
Complain about this postWhen will Collingwood learn, not to sledge the past master of sledging plus' he can not do it properly. Is the 206 by Collingwood going to be his innings of a test career he seems to have settled for his mediocre standard in recent innings. Plus his writing for the bbc is the standard bland stuff of good spirit and we are trying our best , which really scares me if this is the best they can do. What England need is total ruthless honesty in their own performances not trying to sledge like a junior cricketer and Warne is correct the awards of the MBE'S was shocking.
Complain about this postAgree with the prospects, Aggers - despite decisions going against England for most of the series, the England team have only themselves to blame for the embarrassing position they find themselves in.
On other matters, I don't agree that the wicket-keeping position is still open. Yes, Read failed with the bat (again) but his glove work is far, FAR better than Jones'. That is why he should always be picked ahead of him. There are 6 batsmen above Read who should be doing their jobs properly - it is not the responsibility of your W/K to post large scores, only to contribute as often as possible and to keep wicket effectively.
Complain about this postPerhaps after the last couple of tests and the appalling batting of the England tail (if you can stretch the term Batting to include their minimalist efforts) those on here so critical of Duncan Fletcher and his omission of Panesar and Read will realise that it wasn't pig-headedness or ignorance on his part.
England have a real problem with their batting ending at 6 (frequently 5, or even 4 now Pietersen has moved up.) They cant' go on like that. If Giles or someone could hang around while making 25, a proper batsman could maybe add a hundred with him - but nobody in the lower order now is capable - they are utterly hopeless.
Fletcher is responsible for the team, it's his head on the block. He knows the batting problem which is why he went the way he did in the early part of the series and having seen how England's tail perform, you can definitely see why. We can't continually pick people from number 7 down who can't bat at all. Many test matches are won from tail-end contributions, probably this one will be as well. It can't go on.
Complain about this postengland do just not care. I was watching the match all night and have done for the whole series in hope of a fightback which has not only not happened but has never looked likely. Andrew Flintoff should not be the captain he is overburdened with his all rounder status. Paul Collingwood as far as I'm concerned is an alright bowler and has not been used while KP has. To me the england cricket team is a shambles. They are so casual about the job they're doing even though there representing their countries. My school team shows more passion than them. My way of putting the passion back into them would be to scrap match fees if they don't win as some seem to be just there for the money. Having said all of this I wish to congratulate all the australians especially those retirees who have been a joy to watch this series and in all the others they have taken part.
Well Done
England you play cricket like it doesn't matter to you, you have made depressed by just watching you. Thanks for a great tour!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this postWell in regard to the Gilchrist decision if I remember correctly a similiar thing happened to Strauss! So thats all square! Why are we so bad at batting? Its been the story of our cricket team for years maybe they need some Pietersen style confidence since they seem to enjoy getting out to non-committed stroke play. All credit to the Aussies though they didn't hang around in crushing a lacklustre England.
Complain about this postYou know I have nothing but praise for the Aussie atitude skill and professionalism.
Complain about this postThe embarassment is not losing the ASHES but the stark contrast in ability, focus and determination between the sides throughout the series.
A. Flintoff has had an almost devil may care demob happy demeanour about him in this final test.
I don't recall anything like that from Ponting in 2005.
Criket has arrived in the UK, as people tire of Football it has enormous potential.
The players, selectors and coaches have to adjust to the heat and pressure of this new level of expectations.
Look to the Premiership in football - thats the standard, the Aussies are already there!
Yes it looks like a whitewash... so what?
The only people who truly care about these sort of things are those that love stats... I said the other day what really mattered for England was to use the last 2 tests as building blocks for the future and not worry about 3-0 4-0 or 5-0.. s
Sadly Flintoff and management team thought otherwise and put out this rubbish about putting everything they had into this test and treat it in isolation... what a complete waste of time and wrong use of these dead rubbers... hasnt anyone in the England set up got any vision for the future and realise how useful it would be to youngsters being blooded in the test arena.... of course what has happened once again is that England have capitulated.. So not only will we lose 5-0 but we wont have gained anything from the last 2 games which we could have done...
The other thing that does concern me is the attitude especially of the Aussies towards the English team. All that so called goodwill and friendly banter which is all part of a positive good game seems to have vanished.
What an appalling example to young cricketers for Warne to accuse an English test player of being just a club cricketer and say that the MBE is an embarrassment live on tv... Does this really tell us what the Aussies really think and all the pleasantaries are all a smoke screen to appear nice enough, but underneath they cannot stand anyone including the English?
The Aussies have won the Ashes and well done for that, Warne is retiring in his last test. Why on earth then does he need to get involved in letting himself and the Aussie nation down by portraying them as unsporting, nasty and lacking integrity and modesty
I wonder if we will look back on the Australian years of domination as many do to Michael Schumachers F1 career... Everyone agrees he was was one of the greatest drivers of all time but he wasnt well liked by his peers and had a side to him that was quite clearly flawed and nasty. Maybe the Australian Cricket team will be remembered likewise...
I hope one day the spirit of playing the great game returns and once again players enjoy the game and be grateful for having the chance to play for their country...
ps in another post i posted when i mentioned the Aussies attitude, some Aussie piped up about the Bodyline series.. for heavens sake we do realise that was wrong.. surely you have got over it?
Complain about this postCan't Bat
Can't Bowl
Can't Field
Can't Fight
Can't Captain
Can't Win
Can't Draw
Can't Be on honest about performances
Can't be proud of those MBE's
Can't help but be a pessamist
Can't wait for one dayers as all the embarrassment is compacted in one day rather than stretched over 5 no, 4 no, 3 days.
Can't stop following England. C'mon make a game of it please....
Complain about this postNot so long ago every county in England could provide at least two bowlers who could drop it on a sixpence. Whatever public utterances were made, the Aussies respected both this and the tenacity of the English batsmen in fighting what was often a lost cause. The woeful shambles presented to the world on this tour is not worthy of the name English cricket. Every mistake that could be made in every quarter has been made in spades. At least a 5-0 drubbing will make the blazers do something. 4-0 would have been hailed as a triumph and proof that everything was really OK.
Complain about this postMaybe we're on for a 1981 style comeback from the dead, with Pietersen reprising the Botham role and later on, Harmison playing the Graham Dilley/Chris Old role ?
OK, maybe not......
Complain about this postHad Warne been knighted last year, it could've been the master-stroke to contain his sledging... another missed opportunity!
Complain about this postWhy was our best bowler (Panesar) given only 19 overs out of 96 on a turning pitch, and was brought on only as a last resort as 5th bowler after the batsmen were well set and attacking in the morning, 75 minutes after play started, and then again as only the 5th bowler after lunch? And why, as in Melbourne, were fields to Panesar so defensive - with the field set too far back on the distant boundary, skied mishits were missed with no-one in the gap, and no-one was at silly point to take a bat pad.
Flintoff's captaincy has once again been woeful, to add to his share of the selection blunders. Time to go.
The need to strengthen England's batting through an extra batsman or batting all rounder is ever more obvious. But on the evidence of this match the policy of 5 front line bowlers weakens our bowling as well! 4 bowlers plus an extra batsman (Joyce) or batting allrounder (Dalrymple) would have forced England's blundering captain to use Panesar more!
Chris Read's performance has been excellent - two of his 5 catches were very difficult and crucial 50/50 efforts, and the stumping could have been missed with a lesser keeper. Playing an extra batsman (or Dalrymple) instead of Mahmood would have allowed him to bat at Number 8 which would be enough to sort England's tail out. Read deserves a run in the side.
Having said all that, well done to the Aussies, 5-0 won't flatter you even though England have played so far below their potential.
Complain about this postHaven't the Poms got anything better to do than this continual sledging of the umpires? You lot were quite happy with Kasprowiz given out last year...to give you the Ashes. Take it on the chin, it's part of the game. And he may not even have gloved it.
Complain about this post"Umpiring errors are part and parcel of the game, and must be accepted as such"
This statement is palpably untrue. It is well-known that Agnew is against using technology in cricket, but surely this is yet another demonstration of the need to introduce appeals, in the way that tennis, football and rugby all have.
Come on Aggers, wake up and smell the technology
Complain about this postThe most anticlimactic sporting event I have ever anticipated. Absolute rubbish from 1st ball - This is a beating of such emphatic proportions, that it could well spark another decade in the doldrums for English cricket. Troy Colley must be laughing himself to sleep every night..
Complain about this postGeoff Boycott had it right when he said that England climbed Everest when they won the Ashes 2005, then they sat back as if the job was done in perpetuity. When will we work at being the best like the Aussies have role modelled for years now? Being good players is not enough; being brilliant more often than not matters more than anything; we have a huge team issue - nothing to do with individual selection (Monty or Gilo, Reid or Jones - inane drivel) it is to do with making it matter whether we win or lose. It's time for an attitude transplant! START EARNING THE THREE LIONS ON YOUR KIT rather than heaping shame on them match after match!
Complain about this postShane Warne should never have been allowed back after he was found to be a drugs cheat. In other sports his career would have been finished. This, along with appalling behaviour - he was practically sledging Aleem Dar when he was bowling in the first innings - set a terrible example to youngsters watching the game.
Complain about this postWell Done to AUSTRALIA. But not Billy Bowden. Adam Gilchrist was nowhere near out and if he di nick it he would have walked. Everyone knows, Other wise it would have been another quickfire century. Warne's 71 was entertaining too, so Was Stuart clarke. Whats up with Ricky Ponting. Has he lost his great form. 5-0 is Sure result.
FARE and SQUARE.
I can't wait for same in ODI series. They will be thrashed no matter who the captain is, FREDDIE, VAUGHAN or STRAUSS.
England should know that AUSTRALIA are unbeatable in home beacause the experiance, quality, condition that suits to AUSTRALIA better.
I miss Great Glenn McGrath accuracy and Great Shane Warne Leg Spin+Accuracy. Justin Langer batting is also other thing i miss. That deternination sometimes aggration. GOODBYE LEGENDS.
Complain about this postThanks, Aggers, for clearing up the Colly/Warne episode. But really, good old fashioned verbal stoushing. I was disappointed that England couldn't stand too more this afternoon. It is better than that but seems resigned to a whitewash. The morning session was a ripper though. One of the best sessions all round that I have seen in years.
Complain about this postDid Flintoff say anything to Saj after his woeful laziness in failing to properly back up his stumps?
Saj didn't even hang his head in shame after the incident he just strolled back to his mark.
If the captain appears apathetic towards incidents like this surely they will keep happening.
If England players can't give 100% then why bother playing at all.
Monty really shows up some of the more jaded apathetic players with his enthusiasm.
Complain about this postWhy do we always focus on the decisions that go against England and ignore the ones the other way? There seems to be a creeping view that England have been hard done by in this series by umpiring. The facts hardly merit this - with only Strauss as an individual having been truly disdavantaged overall. Today was a typical case in point, with the Gilchrist decision being just as poor the other way as the one Warne benefited from. Concentrating on umpiring decisions, like the other excuse of lamenting injuries, is just a way of masking the underlying faults.
We should learn also from the Aussies on this. In 2005, an incorrect dismissal at the end of the remarkable 2nd test stopped them from going 2-0 up and with that the Ashes would still have been theirs. But rather then moaning about it, or using it as an excuse - they simply brushed it aside as one of those things that happen and got on with their game. They had more injuries in that series and the cost of that decision - but instead of dwelling on their misfortunes, they stood up to their faults, took the defeat on the chin and prepared to get it right next time, which they duly have. One of the biggest concerns over this England team is not just the performances on the pitch, but the tendency to brush all the causes of this aside, to point at excuses, make out there is nothing wrong, and then hope that in 2009 an Australia without McGrath and Warne will be easier to play.
Unless the England team, captain and management stand up to the many ways in which they have contributed to their own position in this series, then even without these two great bowlers, Australia will look far the better bet in 2 years time.
Complain about this post"First things first: Australia are not half as great as England's woeful performance has made them appear."
I might have to stop you right there mate. How about we simply compare the records of the two teams since the 2005 Ashes???
Like it or not, Australia are the dominant team of the last 10-15 years and from about 1995 there has been daylight second.
England are possibly the #2 team.....
Complain about this postWell may it be said "God Save The Queen" ... coz nothing can save the British Cricket team!
Well Done Australia !!!
I wonder if Australia's "Queen" will offer MBE's to her "Antipodean Subjects" also? I somehow doubt if the Aussies would really want it anyway!
Complain about this postP.S. Niether did you complain about Gilchrist getting his marching orders.
Complain about this postI now realise why England have been so poor - they are deliberately losing matches with one or two days left to deny Cricket Australia extra money from gate receipts that would help them invest in the future of the game over there.
Well done England, very canny.
Complain about this postYou people are always so pessimistic. I have absolute faith in a 4-1 score. KP and Monty to centuries. Hoggard and Harmison 50 each. Then we skittle them for 150 and win with 100 runs to spare.
How on earth can the lads be expected to perform when their fate has already been sealed by the papers and nation? The football team doesn't get this before a match, whether they are expected to win, lose or draw.
When England go all out for 100+ it's time to start the negativity. 115-5 isn't too bad. Had it been 115-3 we'd be much more positive. I'm really not sure why this blog is always so negative.
Complain about this postOk for 3 days now I've been trying to watch cricket all night and working all day. I've followed the same proceedure for all bar the melbourne test. Will someone please tell me why? Am I insane? Is it a masochistic streak? Am I just plain stupid?
I am angry, VERY angry. The capitulation by England has been nothing short of pathetic. We wathced the aussie bowlers length and line hit the seam, keep the runs down and take the wickets.
Harmison looked totally baffled when he was beaten by a McGrath delivery. Steve let me give you a hint - that's what happens when you bowl a length ball on or around off stump.
Why couldn't we do that today? It's beyond me.
And one final point. Where was the passion, pride, heart and fight?Totally missing throughout.
Anyway. Monty and read 50 apiece with Kevin hitting a double should give our bowlers something to aim at.
yeh i know, totally insane
steve
Complain about this postM. Pattabiraman makes mention of sledging on the subcontinent. Well, I lived and worked on that continent for a number of years and, yes, even spoke a couple of the languages (the caste system in India forced me to deal directly with lower castes at times because my middle managers refused to speak to them!!!). I will back up what several international captains in that some of the best sledging happens on that continent. The pakistanis, especially, are absolutely brilliant! And of course, most international refs don't know what the hell is being said, so no action is taken. So, please, everyone; don't believe that only english speakers sledge. No todo es como parece!!!
Complain about this postCollingwood getting a MBE was the biggest joke of all the jokers getting an award. He is not a Test match player and his 206 was on a flat wicket when nearly everyone got runs. Gillespe got 201 n.o. last year and no one would call him a test batsman. When it really counted Collingwood fell like a house of cards.
5-0 and history will show this is the worst English team ever to come to Australia. With Flintoff the worse captain ever in Test cricket.
Complain about this postIn answer to Julia: I'm sure Her Maj would be delighted to award the Aussie team MBEs (and probably higher orders for Ponting, Warne and McGrath); on cricketing form they thoroughly deserve it. But I gather from postings on other sites that the Australian Government enacted some years ago that British "gongs" would no longer be acceptable to Aussies. So no MBEs, OBEs or "Sir" Shane Warnes, I'm afraid.
What England could (indeed SHOULD) do to signal our appreciation of great cricketing skills over many years, is snap up Warnie and Pigeon with fat, lucrative training contracts over the next 3 or 5 years so we benefit from their abilities.
So howzabout that ECB, are you big enough to swallow your pride and admit we need some help from the best?
Complain about this postThankfully it will finally be over tomorrow. England have been second-rate in every department on this tour. Only Pietersen might make it into an Aussie XI at the moment. We can deduce this from the fact that he the only England player they have been slagging off! They've stopped bothering with the others. Just a thought, but maybe, just maybe, some of this England team should consider sending their MBE's back to the palace. Vaughan and Simon Jones can keep theirs, but the rest???
Complain about this postYes JA the ball did nick Warney's thumb and he was very lucky to survive but we all downunder thought Gilly's dismissal was very average and that evened things up, seriously another average day in the field for England, then the batting disinigrated into more dismal fare with just "FIGJAM" [f##k I'm great just ask me] to knock up a double ton tomorrow.....if he can only just stop giving the tailenders the strike [well done Captain freddy for protecting your men] you might just put enough runs on the board to cause an upset....Good beer these Boags.....
Complain about this postI am ashamed of how poorly England have performed in the Ashes. They keep saying in public that they are trying their best, are they really? Harmison doesn't seem to care, Fred's too laid back to be captain, the openers haven't been mentally swtiched on for most of the series and Pietersen's more interested in the size of his ego than his team's performances. Collingwood may be a grafter but does he have a brain? What was he doing trying to rile the great Shane Warne? They are by and large a gutless and pathetic lot!
Complain about this postA poor show from the very start of this series - with few exceptions. The old bus ride through London must have been in a paralell universe! But just look at the reality - we scraped the ashes win last year on a couple of lucky 'bouces' - laudible though it was. Then we start to believe our own publicity! Then poor preparation - poor selection - poor everything, apart from the supporters - yes and they paid for the trip themselves. Okay - No Vaughn or Jones - Trescothick should not have been selected as we knew he'd be a distraction - but 5-0!! Like any business or enterprise - it's only the people at the very top who have the authority to sort it out - but as in (our) Football and Rugby - they retain a self-reporting, boys-club closed-loop and remain in essence unaccountable. Also there is abroad band of punditry, public opinion, knowledge and huge experience covering millions of supporters (in all these sports) - who's only interest is the success of our National sides - why is this so readily ignored - we are the ones who ultimately are paying the bills.
Complain about this postHussey WASN'T OUT first innings. Why should he walk?
Gilchrist is one of the Aussie's who walks if he feels he is out - he wasn't out today. He shouldn't have to walk when he feels he isn't out until he is GIVEN out. Bloody ridiculous. Maybe we should by Billy some glasses. Why all the appealing from England when he missed the ball by a mile? After that, it was facical.
Good on ya Warney for sledging about the MBE's - you spoke for the majority of Australia. And today - Collingwood DID look like a club cricketer.
Complain about this postThe English Cricket team, now heading inevitably for another defeat, should replace the 3 lions on their shirts with Manx cats, animals renowned for their lack of a tail.
While the Australian tail has only once failed in the current series (ie the last 5 wickets adding less than 100 runs), the English tail has only once succeeded (ie the last 5 wickets adding more than 100). And even on that one occasion, they only managed just 108, whereas the Australian tail has added 3 amounts over 200 - including 335 in the 4th test.
The Aussie kangaroo, which packs a mean punch with its vigorous tail, would on the other hand seem the ideal image for their successful lower order batsmen.
Complain about this postStrauss - Poor shot selection, lack of interest and a couple of bad decisions
Cook - Out of his depth but will come good, maybe better at 4?
Bell - Some good starts but hasn't converted them
Pieterson - Our only decent player, let him do what he wants
Collingwood - Not good enough
Flintoff - Not a Batting number 6 in Test Cricket
Read - Has struggled but wouldn't you if the coach said he didn't rate you? needs to be given the whole summer to relax.
Mahmood - Under bowled, can be expensive but best strike rate out of seamers.
Harmison - Improved as series went on, will benefit from not playing one dayers to let him get more overs in for Durham
Monty - Left out because he couldn't hold a bat, now night watchman. Well done Fletcher.
Anderson - Needs a season is county cricket to get comfortable with his new action.
My god didn't we miss Vaughan, Trescothick and Simon Jones.
Complain about this postNot one opening partnership of note, defensive captancy and lack of leadership and no bowler to turn to to keep the pressure on.
Warnes sledging and aggression is something we should learn from (along with many more aspects of the Australian winning mentality).
Unfortunately we won't - we'll just spend all our time blaming our bowlers for the low scores rather than the batsmen and thinking a wicket keeper batsman would have made all the difference.
Complain about this postWarney's got a point! Collingwood can look like a club cricketer at times, he doesn't seem to have many shots in the bag, and while he's a fighter his technique will always be his undoing.
You're making a lot of the sledging Aggers. I don't see a problem with it, Warne's a pastmaster and has a test career to back up his comments. What do the England players have? An MBE...
Says it all really!
Complain about this posthow many more Australian cricketer's are writers going to simper around, every time an Aussie cricketer plays well, it's Englands sledging that fired them up, there was an article on here yesterday stating that England's player were too humble in the presecence of is green and gold machine which are clearly super human and unbeatable!! according to our press. however now we can't sledge them (something they invented) as it fires them up...
Complain about this postMaybe in future our crickets should ask the Aussies what is going to help them most and then act accordingly.....
must admit that Warne's response to Collingwood ...""You're making me concentrate, mate,"... made me laugh
Complain about this postAs Keith rightly points out (#1), BillyB's dismissal of Gilchrist was a shocker. Everyone knows that Gilly walks when he is out (even if the umpire thinks/signals that he isn't), and the way he stood there leaning on his bat wasn't an attempt to hoodwink anybody - he's just not like that.
But as we've all been saying, umpiring is never going to be perfect and we all have to accept their decisions gracefully or the game will disintegrate.
5-0 here we come. I only hope (as an Aussie) that England (aka EWCB) decide to review and restructure their system for the future, or there probably won't be one. We do like to beat the old adversary, but not like this - it's just not cricket.
Complain about this postThings that wont happen tomorrow: The England tail helps Pietersen add 180 to leave Australia needing nearly 200 to win.
Steve Harmison then rips through the Aussie top order leaving them at 100 for 6 at the close.
Things that will happen: England are skittled out quickly leaving Australia needing about 80 to win.
Australia knock the runs off in no time.
At the post match press conference Flintoff focuses on 'all the positives we can take from this tour'. Pressed for what exactly they might be he can only come up with the fact that at least England dont have to play Australia again till 2009, and Warne McGrath and Langer have retired. Oh, and that geraint jones and gilo will never play test cricket again. Thinking about it, things are looking up!
Complain about this postAnyone who still believes Flintoff's words about pride and passion etc. are kidding themselves. From Mahmood's lacklustre effort to run Warne out to Flintoff's lazy attempt to get back in his crease before veing stumped todays play cntinued to reinforce (as if it wasn't hammered in enough already) that England never thought they could win this series.
In a reflection of team mentality Australia's lower order was willing to fight tooth and nail to give the side the upper hand after the top order stumbled along whilst the English lower order has continually collapsed and will no doubt do so again tomorrow leaving KP stranded YET AGAIN! I thought him moving to 4 was supposed to prevent this happening....
Complain about this postThis test side should hang their collective heads in shame. What a discrace. All round ineptitude, from the selection of the team, to the middle to tail end batting(the lack of!), and a times, very weak to down right poor bowling and fielding. Once again, selection appears to be favouring the 'old boy network', and not who appears to be best for the job, and the conditions of the wicket, at the time. People paid good money to go to Australia, only to get treated to the home side playing a 2nd rate team. WELL DONE AUSTRALIA!
Complain about this postIt should be obvious by now that a lot of English players are getting out to rash shots - Cook, Bell and Collingwood all fell to attacking shots. Once you get a central contract, you do not play much first-class cricket, the amount of which is far less
Complain about this postthan it used to be. How many times has Cook , for instance, batted in a first-class match in a situation where technique and patience is required , as well as a certain mind-set ? . I look forward to the day an England cricketer says ' No, one-day internationals are a waste of time, I'll use the time to improve my technique' . ( Perhaps this is what Harmison has in mind ! ) . I teach in a secondary school which was buzzing with cricket in Speptember 2005. Thanks to
the ' Sky' give-away, the pride of Darrell Hair and
the one-sidedness of this series, all that interest
disappeared rapidly. It is high time we Welsh were given a chance to plough our own furrow in cricket- but I've thoroughly enjoyed the winter so far.
So Aleem Dar made a mistake. Most complaints about Umpires and Football Referees are made by people who have never done the job and don't realise how hard it actually is. Aleem is still the Second best umpire on the panel. Unfortunately the two best umpires in the world cannot umpire this series. Peter Willey from England, who will not go on the panel because of the amount of time spent away from home (I don't blame him, he spent enough time away when he played for England) and Simon Taufell who is without doubt the best Umpire anywhere in the World. Cricket has either got to use technology for everything or it should be not used at all, by using it for some decisions only you upset the swings and roundabouts balance.
As for the real reason England will lose the series 5-0. We have been woefully poor. Australians play with pride, England just seem to play for the money!
Complain about this postCan someone remind me: Why is Mahmood on the tour? He's barely been bowled, his batting has been poor, fielding on a par with Monty or is that insulting Monty these days?
Complain about this postRE Simon,
"I think the umpiring has been disgraceful throughout the series. That shouldn't excuse England's obvious failings, but it's a shame. Whatever happened to the notion of a batsman walking ? Hussey should have walked 1st innings, even Ponting hung around waiting for the most obvious of run-out dismissals."
Firstly, umpiring has got to be one of the most difficult and thankless jobs going. Are you implying that the officials are corrupt? if not then you should accept that they do their best but, especially with the advances in technology, will be shown to get it wrong from time to time. That is just one of the nuances of this great game.
Secondly, Gilchrist IS a walker but was given out when he shouldn't have been and accepted the umpires (wrong) decision. Ponting's run-out was referred to the 3rd Umpire. Would you walk off in his position? Also, I can't recall a single English player walking in this series (or the last for that matter).
Complain about this postChris Hamilton
Why do we need 5 bowlers when one of them does virtually nothing apart from concede 5 an over and pick up cheap wickets.
Complain about this postWith Flintoff in the team we should have a balanced side but Dunc insists on 5 bowlers. Australia have 4 and I dont think Australias 4 are much better than Flintoff, Hoggard, Monty and Harmison when on form.
Australia have an extra batsman and ultimately post bigger totals
This really is a joke. Why do we keep collapsing? Simple, not mentally up to it imo. I hope we at least take it into Day 5 with a KP double century, heck maybe we will even win this game with one. Never mind, we've got the ODIs to look forward to and a guy I know said our fortunes in ODIs will shoot up once Vaughan plays in the ODI series!
Complain about this postDear o' dear. Is there anything else to be said? Comprehensively flogged in every department of the game by a professional and committed opponent.
It's as though they are playing on two different pitches in two different universes. Has there ever been such a crushing and humiliating defeat???Pride come before a fall and in this case its an abyss.
Why do we so readily wear the clothes of sporting arrogance while forever showing nothing more than the frills of our ignorance and lack of true sporting metal. Dear o' dear.
Complain about this postThe worlds' batsmen are certainly not going to miss Shane Warne or Glen McGrath, however cricket lovers from all over the world, will miss them, especially Warne. His contribution to world cricket 'entertainment' over the last 12 years cannot be under estimated, if only the England cricketers had showed 50% of his will to win, we would still have lost the Ashes, but whitewashed, I don't think so.
Complain about this postPersonally I would like to thank Shane Warne for his immense contribution to cricket, and thankful that he will continue to play for my county Hampshire for the remaining 2 years of his contract.
What is the point of walking if it does not result in any recognition from the umpires?
Gilchrist is the most famous "walker" in the modern game, and yet Bowden won't take his word when he claims he didn't hit it!
The "gentleman's rule" needs to apply both ways, in that you should be able to take a player's word for it one way or the other.
If even Gilchrist is not believed by the umpires when he claims not to have hit a catch, then there appears to be little option but to never walk and simply accept the swings and roundabouts of bad umpiring decisions for and against.
Complain about this postAustralians, naively and somewhat sentimentally, take British honours like MBEs and OBEs more seriously than the Poms do themselves. So when a whole team of narrowly victorious pommie cricketers got them last year it came as a shock - but only because our last real contact with them was back in the 70s. A lot of us thought you needed to save a family of drowning refugees or devote your life to charity or at least make a substantial and long-term contribution to a sport, like Boycott has done. The pointy end of this sentiment is Warne mocking Collingwood's gallant 17 as a qualification for a gong.
Complain about this postI'm tempted to broaden this a little and say that a lot of Australians don't at all mind acknowledging a British heritage and are secretly disturbed when it appears that heritage is being pissed down the toilet.
Simon (15) get off your high horse. The only player who walks these days is Gilchrist. Thats right, an AUSSIE. You know...the team you accused of showing no decorum. Can't remember the last time an englishman walked. Also i guess your english side staggering around drunk for a week after the 2005 series was showing proper decorum...........
Complain about this postHATE TO SAY IT BUT WARNE IS DEAD RIGHT THE UNFORTUNATE THING IS IN NEARLY EVERY MATCH WE HAVE HAD CHANCES TO AT LEAST GET CLOSE TO THE AUSSIES BUT HAVE BLOWN EVERY ONE ! JUST LOOK AT THE AVERAGE SCORES OF THEIR LAST 4 TAIL ENDERS COMPARED TO OURS.
Complain about this postCan't wait for the one day series to start. At least NZ can provide us with the competition by showing some spirit and pride you english severely lacked.
Complain about this postThe England players (nor to that fact the Rugby Union World Cup Winners) didn't ASK for the MBE's, they were bestowed upon them by this inept, populist, totally celebrity obsessed joke of a Government
Complain about this postAn utterly disappointing series for the English and cricket fans. However, for us Australians who love nothing more than demoralising the English, it was great!
Complain about this postAfter last series the 'Queen of England' congratulated the English on a 2-1 series win and even handed out MBE's. Will the 'Queen of Australia' be congratulating the Aussies for a 5-0 win??? ... I doubt it.
I have just been doing some sums to date on the current Ashes Series..... makes for amazing reading.
To date, and including Sydney scores as of close of play.
Australia have taken 91 Wickets for a total of 2497
England have taken 59 Wickets for a total of 3068
32 Wickets and 571 is the margin between Australia and England in this current Series as it stands.
Or, Australia are 114.2 runs and 6.4 Wickets better per Test.....
Paul (Sydney)
Complain about this postWill be travelling to England in 2009 for the return of serve. Can't wait..... Saving the cents (pennies) now!
Would anyone out there know if I can reclaim the money I spent on a DAB radio before the start of this series? On day one, I returned the thing to the shop due to poor reception (which I thought shouldn't happen) only to realise later that the incessant 'um', 'ah', 'er' noises were, in fact a broadcaster attempting to describe proceedings. Much overrated these DAB things if you ask me. Well done Oz and it's been a priviledge to have seen Warne, McGrath, Langer, Ponting and co. give a lesson on how to win games by carrying out the basics well.
Complain about this postThe commentary of Tom Fordyce and others has been brilliant, thanks a heap for the entertainment.
Aggers too, great too. Just one quibble. The Aussie angst about the MBEs is not so much directed at Paul Collingwood. It's not that he got an MBE its that the team were given MBEs for winning one - I repeat one - cricket series. This of course made things ludicrous - should some of the substitute fieldsmen in the series got honorable mentions. Plus several OBEs to others like Duncan Flectcher (what about Troy Cooley? Oops he's Tasmanian). In the interests of retrospective justice the England sides that actually managed to win several series in a row against Australia should all be admitted to the House of Lords forthwith. Arise Lord Ian Botham, onya Lord Geoff Boycott....Seriously I doubt those former players of demonstrated longstanding talent were amused.
Your choice but if you want to make regal gongs that cheap better crank up the printing presses for garden party invitations. Celebrate your victories but try to keep them in perspective. Of course this is advice some Aussies writing in here should do to - only fortunately they dont get to award gongs.
Complain about this postWe(the English) should take our hats off to the brilliant way the Aussies have worked as a team and showed determination. We should also be dismayed, not by how we have failed, but by the bullish assumption, and assumption held it seems by the coach and many players, that we just had to turn up to compete. In the longer run, 5-0 may do us some good. Most of all though, the daft assumption that proper warm up matches werent needed, that players could pick and choose to when to participate, has let us down.
Fred's game has suffered from being skip, but worse perhaps is that we have selected some club cricketers. Collingwood isnt one of them though.
Complain about this postAnd Warne: great player, the best ever perhaps, but does he just get carried away, or is he a thoroughly unpleasant person, as some of the media try and suggest. I dont think the latter is true, but he does sledge with style, and gives as good or better than he gets. With stump mikes, etc, surely the answer is to have a campaign to cut out sledging: it is pathetic, demeaning, and goes to show that many cricketers are no brighter or more worthy of praise and respect than many overpaid soccer players.
Well done Aussies: you are the best. bad luck England: we now need to rebuild and, hopefully, this will deflate the egos of some of the one series wonders, and will get them focussed on cricket, hard graft and practise, not false stardom.
England cricketers - and administratorr have failed. The results show it. I am frustrated by the fact that they seem incapable of fully recognising the fact. Until they do so no lessons will be identified and corrected. Why do I think that they are all complacent and comfortable in the bubble of their central contracts and the results do not really matter? Perhaps as a start they should all return their MBEs - given a little prematurely - which I always thought were awarded for individual efforts rather than collective results. Some of our sportmen recognised only after full and successful careers must wonder.
Complain about this postSO WE ARE NOW LOOKING AT A WHITEWASH. IS THIS THE TIME TO CALL FOR GRAVENEY TO FALL ON HIS SWORD? THE OBVIOUS PROBLEM THIS SERIES IS THAT THE AUSSIES ARE BETTER BATTERS, BOWLERS AND FIELDERS. WHY HAVE WE PICKED UNFIT PLAYERS? I DON'T BLAME FLETCHER, ALTHOUGH I THINK HE'S MADE SOME MISTAKES. THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT WE CAN'T BOWL THE AUSSIES OUT TWICE IN A MATCH - SO WHY WERE WE PICKING ASHLEY GILES? JIMMY ANDERSON AND SAJ MAHMOOD HAVE GOT POTENTIAL, BUT YOU DON'T FACE THE BEST TEAM IN THE WORLD WITH 2 PLAYERS WHO'VE GOT POTENTIAL - WHERE ARE THE BOWLERS IN ENGLAND? EXTREME LACK OF DEPTH!
Complain about this postFINALLY LET'S HOPE GERAINT JONES RETIRES, AND STEVE HARMISON REDISCOVERS HIS BOWLING ABILITY, BECAUSE IF HE DOESN'T HE'LL NOT EVEN GET A GAME FOR DURHAM.
FINALLY (AND I REALLY HATE SAYING THIS) THE AUSSIES SHOWED WHY THEY ARE NUMBER 1. LET'S HOPE THIS IS THE FINAL TIME I HAVE TO SAY THAT.
England can still win the 5 th test if Pietersen scores 200 and Read chips in with another 100 and monty makes a odd 50 and anderson and mahood chip in with 30 or 40 a piece and if pigs learn to fly.
Complain about this postThe best course for England will be to pray for rain which may ensure a draw and delight a drought stricken Aus for the heavenly drop.
There are no surprises in this match - just more examples of ineptitude. The last rites on this series were long ago and it is now a dead rubber. England have to learn from the experience and realise what the Australians long ago did - that you are only as good as your last result. 2005 hurt them because they felt they were good enough but events proved otherwise. 2005 lulled our side into a false sense of security and self-belief and we have paid the price. Too many of our players simply aren't of test standard either in terms of skill or more tellingly, attitude. The most successful England cricketer this winter has been Mark Ramprakash - and that tells you all you need to know!
Complain about this postIan Pulham's observations are spot-on.
The technical inferiority of England as compared to Australia has been plain to see throughout this series. In one sense cricket is a simple game in that bowling straight and playing with a straight bat usually brings rewards. To do that when you under the kind of pressure that the Aussies can exert is of course another matter, but by the time a player reaches test level, the fundamentals of the game should be second nature. However, that doesn't seem to be the case for many of our players, as per Ian's comments about all levels of the English game requiring scrutiny.
It continually frustrates me that there is not one English seam bowler who can bowl straight enough to apply consistent pressure, there will always be a good ration of balls wide of off or leg served up for a hungry Aussie batter to tuck into. Matthew Hayden's comments when England's bowling plans were stolen were absolutely right - I think he said something to the effect that bowling isn't rocket science - you just bowl to hit the top of the off stump. Glen McGrath is not even quick any more but he can still tie a batsman down with a relentless line and length. Stuart Clark is a test rookie but he has come straight in to the side and bowled, er ... straight ... and bagged plenty of wickets.
It amuses me to hear English players talking about 'putting the ball in good areas' as if there was a wide range of options the length and breadth of the pitch. I'd suggest that the options of where to put your stock ball when you're bowling to players of the calibre of Ponting et al are strictly limited to a rather small area on a good length bang on the off stump.
Complain about this postNo one seems to be making the point that we have been let down by our opening batsmen. Alastair Cook will probably be a decent batsman long term but he's been out of his depth all series - the hundred at Perth was scratchy but determined. Even then he lost his wicket at a crucial time and we were without hope.
Agree with the comment on Chris Read - his keeping easily makes him worth his place as it lifts the bowlers and fielders. As for his batting, I think he has guts and if he'd been playing from the start he may even have found some form by now.
England look lazy now - their preparation was woeful and while we hear continually about the overheavy workload for international players this does not stack up when you examine the facts. Giles, Harmison, Anderson - latterly Mahmood & Read too would have benefitted from more games not less.
When we won the Ashes we had Troy Cooley & Trevor Penney on the coaching staff - now they're gone we look half the side in the field. Whoever let them go should be fired. Why oh why do our fielders insist on resting their hands on their knees until the ball is actually struck in their direction??
Complain about this postWhy is that everyone keeps looking at our bowlers who fail to add runs to the total? if our top 6 "batsmen" can't put a sufficient total on the board why should our bowlers be expected to add another 100-150 runs?
Whilst there should be no reason for them not to be able to hold an end up we can't expect them to make up for our batsmens failings.
Our batsmen need to take a long hard look at themselves and the way that they have played throughout the series. I don't think there is one of them that can say that they have not contributed to their own downfall at some point.
Our bowlers seem to have enough trouble putting the ball in the same spot for a whole over without having to worry about going out and scoring runs to supplement our failing batsmen!
Complain about this postI agree with Charles that tail end runs are important but I would wager that it is more to do with the players ability to bowl than bat.
The Aussie bowling attack is very disciplined and to be fair to Punter they have been backed up by good fielding positions.
We on the other hand have bowled very poorly and without any discipline for most of the series.
Shane Warne averages 17 in test cricket but this series he is averaging about 50!
Complain about this postJust a thought, in the NFL, the head coach has the right to challenge an on the field decision. The referee then asks the video booth to review the play and the decision. When made the result is then given.
With the the third umpire now on hand to look at any contentious stumpings or run outs, could not the Captain request that the third umpire look at the video evidence.
This obviously would have to be for both batting and fielding sides, in the case of the batting side if the captain was not at the crease he would have to indicate from the balcony his challenge.
Complain about this postFlat Jack: couldn't agree more, awarding the England team MBE's for winning just two games of cricket in the summer of 2005 seems incredible now and I believe helped contribute to some players believing the hype about being the greatest and forgetting that to be the best requires preparation, commitment and dedication across a far longer period of time.
Complain about this postI would also agree 100% with Ian Pulhams observation about how the Aussies ability to make the most of their talents. Lets face facts, even without Warne and Mcgrath the Australian side over the last 15 years would still be at the top of the tree. They have the best work ethic and a desire to be the very best at whatever sport they take part in. For an Aussie, getting into the national side means nothing unless you contribute something to the cause. Unfortunately for the English the reflected glory of making the national side (not just in cricket) seems enough for an awful lot of our players.
I would however disagree with Ian on one point. The academy in my mind is a sound concept which has been undone by typically British mismanagement. Can you imagine the Australian system allowing Rod Marsh to leave after such a promising tenure in charge?. Or for that matter Troy Cooley who even expressed his desire to stay on in England but was deemed surplus by the powers that be. To me this sums up the vast difference in achievements between the supposed best two cricket teams in the world.
I have a huge problem with some of the comments (not of Aggers, but viewer's).
Complain about this postAs an Australian supporter, I am as dissapointed of this series as any English. It is boring.
But you have to look at positives.
If you don't like your team, we will gladly have Cook for Langer, Panesar for Warne, and Hoggard or Flintoff for McGrath.
You have great talents in your side.
Stick by them.
And for heaven's sake, please stick by Fltecher. I don't like him. I think he's arrogant.
But he brought you out of darkness.
Although none of you will accept it, you were down there with Zimbabwe (might been slightly worse than them) in mid to late 90s.
Fletcher brought some winning mentality back to England.
You only lost 5-0 (almost), because it really is against one of the greatest Cricket team in the history of the game.
It's almost like looking at Charlton last year with people calling for sacking of Curbishley. saying they are sick of mid-table finishes, when they should be going for European places.
Well, sacking of Fletcher may take you where Charlton is heading (in Cricket term, Zimbabwe)
Well, given we've just had day three, it's not going to be another three-day victory, but that's about the only good thing we can say.
This whole sorry episode began the day that we had ticker tape parades through the centre of London simply because we won the Ashes back. You could see in the side that played test matches in the aftermath of that great series that they had decided they were the best, because they'd beaten Australia in a series that could have easily been a 3-1 loss, and showed no application against sides they should have been able to thump.
The 2005 Ashes victory was a point we should have been able to kick on from, to become one of the best England sides in decades, but instead it was treated as the pinnacle of achievement and too many people felt they'd done all the hard work there.
I've been expecting the Aussies to regain the ashes since we failed to finish off Sri Lanka in the first test at Lord's, but to have done it so convincingly just undermines the fact that they wanted this much, much more than we did, and worked that much harder to get it.
Complain about this postEngland 234-4 to 291 all out; Australia 190-5 to 393 all out. Another illustration that tail-end runs DO matter, and "just let the batters get the runs" is a totally simplistic, and thus misguided philosophy.
Complain about this postSalty
You fighting a losing battle. The ump rightly gave Warnie the benefit of the doubt, but an excited appeal being turned down is all the Pommy nongs seem to need to start screaming "WE WOZ ROBBED!"
Complain about this postIt was frankly a ludicrous decision to give those MBEs. I think that can be traced back as the moment the Ashes were lost, almost as soon as they were won.
Complain about this postI think the dissent that Warne and the other Aussie players displayed towards the umpires..and their excessive appealing, and their excessive sledging.. are all products of Ricky Ponting's cocky attitude. He has often challeneged umpiring decisions and so hie players think it's fair game. At least the English players played cricket like professionals.
Complain about this postI do not begrudge Australia their position as No.1, but I would not in my wildest dreams use people like "SMS Texter" Warne, "Cocky show off" Lee or "Look at me, aren't i the greatest" Ponting as role models for my kids!!!!!!!!!!
There are several lessons to be learnt by this Aussie team..and the most important one...is be Humble. And this is from a neutral cricket follower.
Well lets face it, the Poms just cant play cricket. Beaten by a more powerful, dedicated and talented Aussie team. Way too good for ya!! Regards from Mark N in South Australia.
Complain about this postA lot of people seem reluctant to properly criticise Steve Harmison. I'm personally livid that he publicly announces he can't wait to get home and away from the tour. He is a disgrace to the word commitment and shouldn't be picked for England again. Regardless of whatever form he might find. It is a priviledge to play for your country - ask Warne and McGrath - and this whinging prima donna should take a leaf out of their books. He seems to think he is a legend of the game but he is merely going to be a forgotten embarrasment.
Complain about this postSorry Charles Hamiliton but Duncan Fletcher was pig headed in his decision regarding the Monty/Read vs Giles/Jones issue. Yes there is a problem in the wicketkeeping dept, I think JA mentioned yesterday that the position is up for grabs in the summer but by having the best spinner bowling to the best wicketkeeper in the squad would have enhanced our chances of at least competing better at a crucial stage of the series. Both combinations on the batting front are equally limited but Read and Monty are going to give you the opportunity to take more wickets.
Complain about this postWell done Australia, you have outplayed us in this series and with all the Aussie retirements coming up I suppose it will forever be 1-1 in terms of Ashes series against these 2 sets of players. I'm sure we would have put up more of a fight with Vaughan and Trescothick present and Flintoff fully fit but alas, it was not to be. Only one thing has really surprised me this series in fact and that is the Aussie weather - we in England are led to believe that it is perennially sunny over there and that everyone has a 'baaaarbie' every night. So how come we keep getting interruptions for bad light, cloud, rain, etc. In Melbourne the crowd were wearing overcoats! And it is mid-summer over there! Sounds as bad as an English summer to me - I'll never believe Neighbours (set in Melbourne) again!
Complain about this postvery one eyed there arnt u ? forgiving about gilchrist shocker didnt hit the ball ? hes more dangerous then warne he could have destroyed eng even more :)
Complain about this postWhy are the aussies always the bad guys with sledging?
Warne went on and on did he?
Didn't collingwood start it?
Complain about this postThe three great cricketers retiring after this test should be joined by Billy Bowden, he has run his race.
It is difficult to see how the ICC can keep Darryl Hair on ice yet appoint Bowden to umpire in the important Ashes tests.
He really fluffed the Warne decision and then deprived the spectators of seeing the most spectacular batsman of our time in full flight by incorrectly giving Adam Gilchrist out.
Come on Billy, make it four retirees.
Complain about this postAggers
Complain about this postI am so disillusioned by the lack of collective fight in the England team. Under Freddie we simply seem unable to get ourselves up for it. We have lacked intensity from the first day and this what the Aussies have in spades. This was summed up by Warney's innings today. We simply appeared to lack the stomach to get stuck in. Can Fletcher survive what looks like an inevitable whitewash? I'm undecided! We can never allow a team to leave these shores with so little intensity. They have let themselves down and all their supporters. Lets not forget the Aussie public hoping for another 2005 series.
To Donmega
Re. KP's selfish batting with the tail by exposing Monty to the strike in the last over.
That's exactly what the nightwatchman is there to do. If Monty had got out in that over it would have meant the end of the day's play, so no decent batsmen would have been exposed. What do you think the point of sending in a nightwatchman, if the more capable batsman shields him from the strike?
Do us a favour and educate yourself, just a little, about how the game is played.
As for KP being a "chicken" - have you ever walked down the pitch to someone bowling at 80+mph. Have you even faced 80mph? He's as brave a batsman as there is, whatever his less endearing traits may be.
Complain about this postMcGrath copped a lot of flack for his 5-0 comments last year but the truth is he was very close to the mark but just not aware that England were scheming a secret weapon being reverse swing. Take away the reverse swing by using a different ball in aussie conditions and this is what happens. I am not sure why many fans are surprised by this and now out for blood.
Next series will be closer with the ball reverse swinging again, although I suspect aussies will be better prepared for it next time around.
Complain about this postThe over-the-top celebrations after England won the Ashes in 2005 worried me at the time. I mean, a parade and MBEs for what? Winning a test series (narrowly).
Since Australia recovered from 1981, they have won several world cups, they built on solid success to totally dominate international cricket, they have held the test league trophy (whatever it is called) since it was invented.
England's achievements are pathetic by comparison.
The hysteria following our Ashes victory shows England to be an absurd, Lilliput-like nation, with grand ideas left over from a by-gone era, that never really existed anyway.
What happened to the usual sensible voices of sport that you get in other countries? Like "We are happy to win the series but realise Australia are still a far better team and we have a lot of hard work to do to reach their level".
It was drowned out by the absurd, over-inflated egos of the English. The over-the-top celebrations have clearly been a motibvating factor in pushing Australia to rub our noses in it. Certainly for Warne, if not the rest.
In series past, Australian teams would have relaxed a bit once the series was theirs. Not this time.
Complain about this postI think the MBE were in order. They are given for a unique performance, not for live time achievements or something like that.
Complain about this postThis Ashes series shows how hard it is to get the Ashes from the Aussies and indeed how extraordinary that 2005 series was for the Poms.
Let them keep it as permanent reminder how high they have been and low they have become.
Dear Rodney (#22),
Do you think the incorrect final dismisall in England's 2 run victory last year may have impacted the outcome of the series? Or the atrocious dismissals of Martyn and Katich when aussies were in a winning position in the 3rd test?
Cry me a river.
Complain about this postYou have to love the generous comments from some of the Aussies who have hunted down this blog to spend their time running off at the mouth - well done lads, but you're so predictable with your hard thought out put downs. Try a bit of subtlety sometime maaaate.
The England team is getting the back to back (make that 5 backs...) defeats its inept, heartless and hopeless "defence" has deserved. Oddly enough these are talented cricketers who have won matches and even series in the past, but who came here with some idea that they would turn up to matches and it would all fall into place. Not without preparation. Not without hard work. Not without determination. All missing.
There will be a competition for the Ashes again and it will be hard fought and, yes you cashed up Bogans, England will even win them again.
Complain about this postMen against boys. Over and out.
Complain about this postWarne is an odious and nasty piece of work. He's a convicted drug cheat and the poorest sportsman within a team of poor sportsmen. His treatment of Collingwood today is totally in character and demonstrates his total lack of character. A nasty little man who world cricket can well do without. Good riddance Warne. Go and take your drugs, chips, pizzas and fags somewhere else.
Complain about this post6 batsmen above Read ? That's one too few. The balance of the side is wrong, given the available talents.
It's clear now that Fletch was seduced by what worked in 2005. It worked then because all 4 pace bowlers were up to standard, and Gilo could be just a container and score a few. And the keeper was (then) not completely useless with the bat.
Fletch had a new hand to play with Monty being an aggressive wicket-taker as well as a containing spinner who could bowl all day. And once Jones was injured, there was not a 4th seamer up to the job - Anderson and Mahmood bowl good balls, but not often enough. So why play them ? They just release the pressure. And they can't bat either.
With 4 aggressive, wicket-taking bowlers (Harmison - eventually - Hoggard, Fred and Monty, who have between them done 95% of the good bowling in the series) he could have had an extra batsman, followed by Fred at 7. Note that the Australians have never played Gilchrist at 6, despite his batting ability. It gives him licence to fail occasionally with his aggressive approach. Fred could turn games too, but has usually comes in after everything has fallen apart. It also gives the team the luxury of having the best keeper in the world on a tour where every catch must be taken, even if his batting is not that great.
Who should the extra batsman be ? Well, Shah had/has the technique and the aggression to get up the Aussies' noses.
But his face doesn't fit, does it ?
Too late now. Can we have another go ????
Complain about this postI agree with the sentiments about the MBEs which were thrown about in 2005. I suppose Mr Blair will make sure there is plenty of distance between him and the England cricket team this time round!
And I'm not at all happy about some of the England players now appearing in newspaper advertisements for the "Official Beer" of the England team appearing glum, and supposedly lamenting the loss of the Ashes.
This tour has been a complete disaster and humiliation...it's hardly appropriate to use it as a marketing opportunity!
Complain about this postWhat is the BBC doing sponsoring bad English?!
What is all this crazy stuff about calling a demolition job a 'whitewash'? A whitewash is something used to cover over cracks, mistakes, poor joins, to make things look better than they are - which is the opposite of what you mean!
What you mean is a walk-over (which is what such things used to be called - rightly).
Philip Seddon
Complain about this postCollingwood whinging about an umpire decision is ridiculous. Didn't they see what happened to Gilchrist when it was SO obvious he didn't hit it and yet was given out? The entire England team appealed even though he wasn't out...
Won't make any difference to the outcome. Australia will still give you another cricket lesson in the form of another thrashing.
Good on you Warney - sledge them for those ridiculous MBE's... You are saying what most of Australian supporters are thinking!!!!
And btw: Today especially, I agree with Warne- Collingwood DID look like a club cricketer.
Complain about this postThe difference between the two teams is visible in the details of the scorecard.
In England's first innings 3 players made more than 30, in Australia's first innings 7 players made more than 30. In England's 2nd innings we've currently have 24, 28, 29 n.o. Maybe Pietersen will cross that threshold but I can't see anyone else likely to do so.
At the other end of the scale, 5 English players didn't reach double figures in their first innings but only 2 Australians. (In both cases we had a 0 not out.) So far in England's second Innings we've had two players already not reach double figures.
Complain about this postWhy do people think Monty was sent in as a nightwatchman for Chris Read?
Given the performance of the England tail, it's far more believable that he's been moved up the order to seven ...
Complain about this postIt is appalling to see same story repeats itself. Every time pre-match interviews are so positive and claim to go for a fight etc., but the reality is so pathetic. No one seem to remorse for the poor show, including the coach and players who write sports columns.
Complain about this postI completely agree with the "Felix" post No' 7.
I must congratulate the bbc web chaps on some of their commentary, especially the piece last night about mothers spitting !!
On the matches between the two sides, I am fairly embarrassed by the whole situation. It gets worse when my Aussie friends tell me they are annoyed with winning 5-0 as they want a better sporting contest.
We have been outplayed - simple as that. I would like to highlight two areas where we have failed miserably in comparisons
1, Building big partnerships and totals. Our batsmen have looked gutless when facing the Aussie attack (apart from a couple of glimses from Fred, Collingwood and Bell. Where as the Aussies have taken the game to our bowlers.
2, The Aussie attack caused us severe problems - our top order were constantly playing and missing outside off stump. The Engand attack did that at times, hoggard and Flintoff especially, but no where near enough pressure was exerted on the Aussie top and middle order.
Finally, to follow on from most of yesterdays posts regarding the wicket keeper situation. No matter who had played at No'7, it wouldnt have made 1 bit of difference - whether it was Read, Jones, Prior, Batty, Davies, Pothas - or any others mentioned.
Complain about this postThe England team may have not performed as well as they could have done, but the 5-0 score does not represent what the England "A" team (captained by M.Vaughan could have acheived). Since my 5 years in Australia I have become used to the totally one-sided Australian view of all things to do with sport (they are the best at everything), but the one sided radio commentary on the ABC here is a complete joke. Only J.Agnew and the other English commentator (M.Slater?) provide any counter to the "isn't everything the Aussies do wonderful" broadcasts that I have been listening to. Roll on the next Ashes series on with no Warne, no McGrath and a more mature England A Team.
Complain about this postWhat an embarrasing time to be an England Cricket fan! Our players should make a swift and quiet exit from Australia to apologise and explain themselves to the thousands of fans who spent a fortune to see a WHITEWASH and to those of us who could have had much better nights sleep back here! Then they should get straight back to the basics of cricket and come down from whatever cloud they are still on from the 2005 Ashes.
Complain about this postWhat a difference a year makes in cricket, Freddie was the golden boy of cricket in the last ashes, now he is going to go down as the english captain that lost the series 5-0 for the 1st time in 80 odd years.
But i dont balme freddie, its the whole management structure that was ill prepared and had made him captain ahead of strauss.
There were too many players coming back from injury and management were guilty of being too negative with team selection.
Complain about this postThe reason for Collingwoods MBE and the rest of the team was due to an amazing test series in 2005 in which England regained the Ashes. People have got medals and gongs over the years for single battles as well as long term service. Boycott is a Yorkshire bore who will always complain.
Complain about this postOK, so England are going to lose the series 5 zip, and they have been comprehensively beaten, but they have been up against the best in the word. I agree that some of the players have at times rested on their luarles and that they have had a few bad sessions and have thrown it away at times, but we are still the second best side in the world with a fully fit squad. England are a young team with some pretty amazing talent coming through who will only learn from this humbling experience.
I for one, am looking forward to 2009....
I'm an Englishman / England fan and am, like everyone, gutted by the way we've played... and most notably not competed... in this series. I am only writing to respond to some nonsense I've just read:
Complain about this postSimon (post 15), I even made note this morning (I'm in Thailand) that Hussey DID walk when caught behind today, even though it was a close call on whether or not the ball carried for Read to make that excellent catch. I reckon I might have hung around for longer than he did, even if I was part of a side that has been destroying its opponent for the last month or so!
Cheers
anyone else just start laughing after reading Ian's comment (61).
Complain about this postHilarious. There is just too much material there for comeback-comedy I wouldn't know where to start.
This series comes down to one word - TICKER - Australia has had it, England haven't. It's as simple as that. In the crucial, potential match turning situations, the Aussies came through. England had no answer. No ticker.
There seems to be a lot of similarities between the England Cricket Team of 2005 and the England World Cup winning team of 2003. One great series/tournament; close win against Australia and all of a sudden they are the best in the world and having afternoon tea with the Queen. Pity no one let them know that it's harder to stay at the top than it is to get there.
Having said all that, England fans are far more gracious in defeat than any of my fellow countrymen would be. Love the Barmy Army.
Will miss you Warnie.
Complain about this postHow dare Shane Warne ridicule the veracity of somebody's received the MBE? Doesn't he know that June Sarpong has one?!
Complain about this postWhy doesn't Agnew get off the fence and tell us what he thinks about the warne - collingwood exchange
He seems to be defending Collingwood by sticking tentative comments in brackets but the reality is that Warne is right
Collingwood getting an MBE was a disgrace, when you consider that Graham Thorpe didn't get one despite winning his 100th cap that summer and being England's best batsman for the whole of his 12 years in the team. This was rectified the year after but is still a joke and cheapens the whole honours system when winning one cap can get you an MBE
In hindsight were any of the team really worthy of the award? One series, they thought they had made it.
Out of interest has Warne got even an MBE? He is on the only one of Wisden's 5 cricketers of the century not to be knighted
Complain about this postI've been reading these comments and the overwhelming feeling I get is that there's no perspective here, What is it with English cricket supporters? When we win a series we're apparently the best team in the world. When we lose, we're apparently an embarrassment and a disgrace. How terribly English that attitude is, I can almost hear nanny giving their bottoms a spanking. It's completely unrealistic. The fact is, last year we played at home with our best team and everybody firing on all cylinders, and we narrowly beat the best team in the world. This year we play away from home with our third-or-fourth best team, with nobody firing on all cylinders against an opposition fired up for revenge.. and we lose. Big Deal. Yes it's a dissapointment, of course it is. But try and keep things in perspective.
Complain about this postNaseem Hamed has had his MBE stripped for criminal behaviour.
Complain about this postSurely those in the current England side who were decorated a year ago must suffer the same fate?
Or will they be touring London in a newly whitewashed open top bus?
Re Post 52# At 10:32 AM on 04 Jan 2007, Jon Dennis wrote:
"Shane Warne should never have been allowed back after he was found to be a drugs cheat. "
Yeah, and they should ban McGrath for taking too many wickets also, and maybe we could change the rules so that Ponting is out if he hits a boundary...
Yeah, that will even things up a bit!
Complain about this postEvery England player so far has defended the clear lack of preparation prior to the series. Even Harmison last night stated the same despite his obvious improvement as the tour has gone on. Is this their honest view or is this the "siege mentalitity" and defence of an under pressure management team?
Complain about this postAs an Englishman living in Oz I will be glad to see the back of this dismal ashes series. Obviously I've taken a fair amount of stick, but I must say (through Union Jack eyes) I've been disappointed by three key things:
Complain about this post1) The English Cricket Team in general and the selectors (for obvious reasons),
2) Blatant over-appealing, aggressive sledging and basic nasty, bully boy attitudes of the 'we're so good/it's not fair' aussie team,
3) Crappy umpiring both ways (but particularly in favour of the Australians.
I have watched/read with increasing frustration from my home in middle America as the Aussies have run roughshod over the England side.
I am a Surrey fan, and wonder if a player like Ramprakash might be a useful addition? He had a smashing year!
Complain about this postI like how many of you have blamed the Upmire for not giving Warne out. But do remember, if there is doubt, the batsman is not out. Simple!
Funny how in 2005 the British press claimed that this is the best team you've had in 2 Decades, a little over one year later and it is now possibly the worst team you've had in nearly a Century.
Fall as quickly as you rise - that has been the path of English cricket for many decades, so don't feel so down, you surely should be used to it by now.
Have a good day...
Complain about this postRegarding Post 60# At 11:26 AM on 04 Jan 2007, tagnut wrote:
"England 234-4 to 291 all out; Australia 190-5 to 393 all out. Another illustration that tail-end runs DO matter, and "just let the batters get the runs" is a totally simplistic, and thus misguided philosophy."
If England had decent bowlers they could have gotten the Aussies all out for 250 after having them 190-5.
Complain about this postThere's no shame in losing to a better team when you have given your all but this England side have showed a complete lack of fight.
Complain about this postThe English players should be made to sit down and watch Justin Langer's press conference before this test. Maybe then they will learn something about pride, passion, commitment, professionalism and what it should mean to represent your country.
As an Englishman who hates losing I am utterly embarrassed by the England team's pathetic displays throughout this tour.
Even during the dark days of the 90's we at least showed some fight and were never whitewashed! The worst display by an England team in 86 years - where's the honour in that?
well maybe a 5-0 whitewash is what is required to make those who should take a good look at how we prepare for tours.
also, nice to see the art of sledging still exists - something that is missed in the highlight shows!
Complain about this postEngland are so pathetic they shouldnt even being playin out there, there no better than a boys cricket team, how can shane warne there tailender score more runs than anyone in our team its a disgrace to the country iv watched every ball and im so disappointed i dont no why i actually thought england had a chance in the ashes how wrong can i be,
Complain about this postWhy is it that i feel if Australia were in this position at 114-5 they would have enough in their tail to post at least a challenging fourth innings target. England will no doubt be bowled out for about 175 and Australia will reach the runs without losing a wicket, thus completing the most humiliating series defeat in history!
Complain about this postAs I have reiterated again and again...
I TOLD YOU SO!!!
England were never gonna win this Ashes, the moment they left for Australia! And the 5-0 prediction I made and McGrath made is going to be fulfilled tomorrow, unless it rains or a miracle happens.
I mean lets all get realistic!
They only have the one-dayers left to redeem themselves. I certainly believe England will play much better in this format of the game!
And Aggers, I think your optimism, views, and correspodence is all very much like the current England performance.
By the way everyone:
HAPPY NEW CRICKETING YEAR!!!
Regards
Yusuf.
Complain about this postsomething that hasnt been said is that England's decline in cricket over thast 30 years coincides with the full on one day games that they play in England.
Complain about this poston the other hand the australian states play 4 day games as the basis of their cricket competition-traditionally known as the Sheffield Shield-until england develop a similar competition to enhance their test skills in batting and bowling australia's domination may continue for some time yet
JON DENNIS (Entry 52)
Warne a 'drugs cheat'? Mate - it was a diaretic for weight loss. Hardly what some of our Pakastani cricketing friends are allegedly taking these days.
How are drugs going to help Warne's performance? He's hardly an 'athletic' cricketer?
You wouldn't be whinging if he played for England instead.
Collingwood is average. He should keep his gob shut.
Complain about this postI am so pleased that it will be 5-0 to Aussies. For this England team to avoid this would not have been deserved and no doubt had England won we would have had to suffer a lap of honour etc etc etc.
The team deserves NOTHING from this series. It began with no preperation poor selection and has ended with no sprit or heart.
With regards Warne/Collingwood Warne is correct. Collingwood number 4/5 for England is a joke. He is not good enough.
Finally will Harmison please stop his over the top celebrations when he finally gets a wicket. At Melbourne we had it all when he finally got a wicket after a stand that had taken the game from England .It wa like scoring in Football at 0-6 and running round the field in celebration.
Roll on the World Cup Results are wholly predictable.
Complain about this post'I think the dissent that Warne and the other Aussie players displayed towards the umpires..and their excessive appealing, and their excessive sledging.. are all products of Ricky Ponting's cocky attitude. He has often challeneged umpiring decisions and so hie players think it's fair game. At least the English players played cricket like professionals'.
I totally agree with these sentiments.. Many of the comments here seem to be saying we need to be more like the Aussies...
If this means other teams including England need to be nasty and treat other teams with contempt and also challenging allsorts of umpiring decisions... then fine you can keep the Ashes as long as you like as firstly the game of Cricket will eventually die... and as a proud cricket lover i would rather see the game played as it should be ie by the rules and lose than win every series by being the way most of the Aussie team are...
Is all that really matters to the Aussies, winning? What about the game of cricket and its future? Ar e they not equally responsible custodians of Crickets future.. what example are they showing the youngsters? Is Winning everything and sod the consequences?
Complain about this postI for one will not bag the poms, although the MBE's were farcical. This tour has generated so much interest with many individual highlights drawing great crowds to our venues. The English team will bounce back and all us Aussies can't wait for the next confrontation when we will try and whip your butts (and your Balmy army) again.
Complain about this postLet's not make so much of the tail end runs issue. It is one of many parts of the England game that have failed to deliver and is one of the less important ones. Over focussing on that issue apparently was a factor in the daft selection errors early on.
Complain about this postThe main problems have been that both the frontline batting and bowling has generally been poor. Only two players, Pietersen and Panesar have consistently performed to the required standard. In addition, Flintoff's captaincy has been dreadful.
Some say that there is far more individual talent in this England team than for example the one of 4 years ago. However, as this is certainly not the strongest Austalian team, it does not say much for the character or preparation of England.
Just a thought as I watched the inevitable "5 out all out" scenario develop again. We have to have someone coming in at number 7 that can bat and we have to get Vaughan back in when fit. Assuming Collingwood will give way to Vaughan why not throw Collingwood the keepers gloves for the one day series and the world cup and take a chance on developing a genuine keeper batsman to protect our fragile tail. It worked with Stewart why not Collingwood as an exceptional fielder surely he can adapt to keeping wicket.
Complain about this postThere's no doubt the Aussies are ruthless and they deservedly are miles in front. It's a pity their play is marred by the boorish and bullying antics players such as Shane Warne repeatedly display, not only against opposition players but in more recent years, against umpires. It sullies the nature of the game, and let's face it, cricket is a game and not the gladitorial be-all and end-all of marketing hype.
Complain about this postEngland's been unable to press home the advantages it has had at certain times. And it's batting has become woefully defensive and / or idiotically attacking. Where are the basics - taking short singles can be an attacking ploy.
And how is it that the tail is so long? How is it players such as Anderson and Mahmood can't improve their batting? McGrath, once a bunny with the bat, took himself on and got better. Gillespie too.
There are too many excuses with England. It's the same old same old.
England have been pathetic. Flintoff keeps going on & on about trying to win but I never hear the Aussies talking about TRYING to win. You either go out there to win & turn in a good performance but trying doesn't even enter into the equation. It really is black & white. You go out there with the clear intention to win at all costs. You don't go out there with the intention to TRY & win. That is all I hear from Flintoff, Harmison etc. "It isn't for the lack of trying!" What a stupid statement. Just look where your trying got you! You never hear Ponting talking about the most ludicrous of intagibles "trying" to do anything. They go out there with the clear Intention to win. The have had the whitewash on their minds since the second test match & what is about to transpire? A whitewash. That is because they set themselves tanglible targets!
What has Flintoff & his second rate chums done for 5 test matches. They tried to win & look where it go them. You have to have tangible targets in your mind. Trying is too vague because it doesn't even exist. You go out onto the field & bowl to the best of your ability for every ball. Harmison has been woeful but he's been playing game after game because apparently he's been trying to get hsi action right. Look, I haven't played international cricket but I have never bowled a ball to 2nd slip. He's been woeful & the England management are a bunch of softies that are incapable of condemning 2nd rate performances. They are men & not boys...they need to be told that they are under performing so that they can improve. The stupid excuse of " It's not through the lack of trying!" doesn't wash with me. It's just a feeble excuse because they aren't man enough to admit that they have played worse that a bunch of school kids.
Complain about this postMBE - multiple batting errors
They were a joke when they were handed out - they're more of a joke now.
Too right Shane, keep serving it up.
Complain about this postFor England to save this test, it will require something special. Every time this Englan team have needed to do something special in Australia, they have failed. Even the most ardent England fan must admit that Aggers is right and a whitewash is inevitable....
Complain about this postFlintoff should resign as Captain. Wiser heads (and a lot of fans) wanted the brains of Strauss in the job, but Freddie's ego and need to lead the team scared the selectors into giving him the job, in case his performance was damaged by losing the captaincy.
Well, the odd decent spell aside, he has never looked threatening as a bowler and one ok innings out of ten failed ones show the lie in that.
As a captain he isn't good enough. Under him, a team who were hard to beat and threatening to win have become a weak shambles. After each embarassing defeat, Flintoff has come out to speak to us at home and said, and I quote, 'I'm not too bothered, to be honest. It didn't come off for us.' Harmison said something similar about his own awful bowling for much of the series. The fact is, it DOES matter, and this attitude is the key to why Flintoff must go and go now.
Freddie needs to bat and bowl and inspire with his physical ability and nothing else and England need a Captain with moral authority to instill some backbone and flair back into the side.
Complain about this postI think we must remember a number of things before we all go mad about how poor England have played:
1. We are missing World Class Key players e.g. Simon Jones - Englands secret weapon in the last Ashes series, Marcus Trescothick - Proven opener over the last few years and a key player in our last victory against the Aussies, Michael Vaughan - Our Captain, tactically spot on, proven run scorer and fantastic man management.
Any team would struggle when they lose World Class players and yes we have struggled, just look at the effect it had on Australia when they lost McGrath in 2005.
2. We are playing the greatest team in the World. The Aussies are without a doubt the greatest team of the modern era. If a team has a weakness they will exploit it with no remorse and it is clear that has happened.
3.We are Number 2 in the world and will continue to beat teams in England and on tour for the foreseeable future as I think we have the potential to mould another great England side out of the raw talent we have e.g. Panesar, Mahmood, Cook as well as the returning Key players.
English Test Cricket has nothing to worry about.
Yes we will be whitewashed, yes it has been painful but as long as the team use this experience to drive them onto number 1 spot in the world we will once again retain the Ashes in the foreseeable future.
Complain about this postSo Jonathan , now that Geriant Jones has been dropped who are you going to blame for the tail collapsing in the first innings ?
Complain about this postAll of a sudden, the term "Winging Poms" is crystal clear. Morning, noon and night, at work, in the pubs, in the clubs and even in church all you hear is, Warne was out, but the umpire missed it, Strauss was dfinitely out but the umpire missed it, please look at the facts and now the records, England lost to Australia. Forget about the sour grapes and give the Aussies their due, they are the best in the world. Stop winging!
Complain about this postWhen interviewed all the England players keep refering to the lessons they are learning while being trounced.
No interviewer ever asks them "What lessons ?"
So before this series didn't they realise:
Net practice is not the same as warm up games
Not to bowl short and wide
Not to play loose, unecessary shots in a 5 day Test
Not to seize the initiative
Just admit you've been outclassed.
Complain about this postApparently MBE's can be withdrawn by the relevant cabinet office if behaviour not becoming of a person holding such an honour can be evidenced.
I would suggest that Messrs Flintoff, Collingwood, Jones, Pietersen et al should have theirs removed forthwith. It was a joke the way the ECB, players and much of the (non-cricket watching public) responded to the 2005 series win. Things are coming home to roost big time now.
Let's say goodbye to Mr Fletcher and his staff and ask Mr Boycott if he would like to steer the good ship England for the next few years.
Complain about this postdid monty come in as night-watchman, or did they just realise that he is a better batsman than chris read??? certainly looked more comfortable at the crease.
thing is with monty, his major run scoring shot is his slog-sweep, and everyone enjoys that. however, he has other, better run-scoring shots, and i don't think he needs to play the sweep that seems to be becoming his downfall. its a high risk high gain shot that a tailender would play, and i think monty is better than that, and doesn't need to resort to it. I think he is pressured to play it because the fans expect it because they enjoy it, and see monty's batting and fielding still as something of fun.
i know it seems strange to be analysing monty's batting so much, but tomorrow he's our best hope of scoring some runs with pietersen, as for the others......
Complain about this postI'd just like to congratulate any English supporters who have managed to continue watching. You must really love your cricket.
Positives to come out of the series.
* Panesar established a place in the team.
* You found a real wicketkeeper (again) in Read - he should have secured a long-term place.
* Continued good form of Pietersen.
* Cook looks like a long term prospect.
* Hoggard continues to be a great workhorse.
* Losing 5-0 means you can take the captaincy off Flintoff and he can get back to being one of the best all-rounders in the world.
Around these six guys -
Flintoff, Hoggard, Panesar, Pietersen, Cook & Read, you can build for the future.
(I also believe Anderson has what it takes, but have no real evidence to back this) :-)
One last thing, sack Fletcher and hire a very experience Aussie such as Tom Moody or Greg Chappell or maybe even current Aussie coach John Buchannan (off contract after the world cup), and give them free rein.
Once again, congratulations on continuing to support your team in adversity. You are the true fans.
Complain about this post1st innings:
England batsmen 1 to 6 = 277 runs
England batsmen 7 to 11 = 4 runs
Aussie batsmen 1 to 6 = 200 runs
Aussie batsmen 7 to 11 = 173 runs
And given that the main four Aussie bowlers knew exactly where to pitch their deliveries, consistently, England's problems are very clear.
Complain about this post"Around these six guys -
Flintoff, Hoggard, Panesar, Pietersen, Cook & Read, you can build for the future.
(I also believe Anderson has what it takes, but have no real evidence to back this) :-) "
Oh, I forgot to add Harmison.
Looks like he is coming back into form.
Now you know for the future that he requires a LOT of bowling to get himself ready for a series.
So make that
Flintoff
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar
Pietersen
Cook
Read
and maybe Anderson
plenty of bowling talent...
Complain about this postI have found the interviews with Harmison and Anderson over the last two days both illuminating and depressing. Harmison's main interest seemed to be to get back home asap, and he didn't appear to have any idea as to what he might be doing over the next several months to prepare for the two summer test series, in which he claimed to be determined to perform at his best. Anderson just appeared totally woolly-headed and uncertain as to what he has been trying to do at all. Both their demeanours and statements contrasted with the invariably articulate and purposeful remarks of the Aussies in interviews throughout the series.
We need Vaughan back asap, as at least he has some brains, and of the rest I would only retain KP, Strauss, Flintoff, Panesar (definitely) and Bell and Cook(somewhat reluctantly) from the team in this match. We must find an Alan Knott type from somewhere to keep wicket and a couple of medium fast bowlers with a reasonable idea of where they are trying to put the ball. However, I am not optimistic that much of this will happen, even if the dreadful Fletcher works out we have had enough of him.
Complain about this postMy suggestion to Ricky Ponting for tomorrow.
Put Langer and Warne in as Openers, then have Glenn McGrath in at first drop.... Give the three an opportunity have the final day and final innings part of the celebration of saying goodbye and saying hello to a 5-0 whitewash....
Paul
Complain about this postThe problem with allowing some sort of appeals system is that it gives an unfair advantage to the bowling side. The captain is always on the field, and can quickly inform the umpire that he would like to review a decision.
But the batting side has no such advantage. Consider Strauss' appalling "bat pad" decision. He's been given out by the umpire - does he have the right to stand there, while Fred runs out onto the field, they discuss whether it's worth appealing, and then it goes to the third umpire. We've lost five minutes of play, and the umpire's authority has been undermined? I can't see the ICC going for that.
It's already 11 vs 2 - why give the fielders any more advantage than they've already got. England aren't losing this Test because of one upiring decision.
Complain about this postI love Warnie - he's a true larrikin, he has his own hair, 700 wickets and not an eyelid out of place.
Somebody give that man a job in TV! Oh, they already have. How did that happen.
Complain about this postAggers I have enjoyed your commentary on
ABC radio immensely (lamentations notwithstanding). But your BBC contributions have not been so spot on. Totally different audience though isn't it?
You only mentioned the decision favouring Warne (which in real time and without the benefit of replays I defy anyone to get right with certainty - it was a toughie). You could also have told your readers about the poor decision against Gilchrist - a man noted for walking when out but who stood his ground and was incredulous at a plainly incorrect decision? Or better still you might have ignored both decisions in your column altogether since neither will have the slightest effect on the outcome of this match.
This has been rather typical of your comments for most of the series - along the lines of "England outplayed - yes, but what might have been if only the decisions had been fair?" It has become a little tiresome not to mention plainly unbalanced and inaccurate in that you have failed to also mention occasions when decisions were favourable to Englands cause. You might point out that the umpiring has had no significant impact on the outcome of the serious or indeed any single match. The best team has won on each occasion and the margin has probably been a fair indication of the difference between them.
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Complain about this postIf winning the ashes merits an MBE, does losing them mean they will have to return them?
Having seen our batting, is Monty the nightwatchman, or is our tail so weak that he has actually been promoted to number 7 because of his batting skills relative to Chris Read?
Complain about this postMy patience is being sorely stretched by the constant, unjustified and vitriolic attacks on Kevin Pietersen. He has undoubtedly been our most illustrious and effective batsman, yet he seems to have been made into a scapegoat. I watched him today and despite the the enviable quality of the Australian bowling which all but extinguished his scoring opportunities, KP still exercised great restraint and resilience. He didn't play any indiscriminate shots, although he could have been forgiven for doing so. Despite a most uncharacteristic strike-rate of 48 this series compared to 71 in 2005, he has been our most productive batsman with an average of 60. On the issue of giving the strike to a tail-ender at the embyonic stages of the over, I think it merely reflects the distorted plans engineered by Fletcher and presumably Flintoff as even the captain and Chris Read, the latter at the MCG, were doing the same thing. In the case of today, perhaps KP's actions were understandable as he was trying to preserve his wicket in the last over so as to replicate Botham's heroics of 81 at Headingley. If people are consistent, why not condemn Read and Flintoff? Let's look at the merits of the other batsman. Strauss, despite suffering at the hands of the umpires, has been injudicious in his shot selection and not being given the captaincy has nullified his potency. Notwithstanding his century at Perth, the flaws in Cook's technique have been exposed and exploited. At three, Bell has been sound, but perhaps was mentally found wanting as suggested by a failure to convert 50's into 100's. Collingwood started well, which has given his series avearge a somewhat perverse boost, but in the last six innings has had low scores. One cannot doubt his endeavour and courage, but his strokeplay was limited (none more so than at Adelaide in the second innings). The captain has been out of touch and there's no point mentioning the wicketkeepers or the tail. KP has been a standout and deserves our recognition, not misplaced villification. Imagine England's plight without him.
Complain about this postAggers, another good summation. Sadly England has been pathetic in terms of their preparation, attitude & performance.
Complain about this postJust a quick correction, the outfield throw which Sajid Mahmood should have collected behind the stumps to run Warne out was thrown by Alaistair Cook, not Anderson. I was sitting on the concourse in front of the SCG Ladies Stand today and Cook was fielding right in front of us.
As much as the Aussie supporters wanted the Ashes to return 'home', no-one has derived much satisfaction from seeing a 5-0 whitewash, although it's a great tribute to Ponting's champion team and the 3 retirees.
BB, Sydney.
Stop whining about the Queen and those MBE's for pity's sake. It's phony Tony that decides on those, not Her Maj - who just doles them out, so get off your sad horse and enjoy the Ashes win.
Complain about this postPoor ole' England team,
I've watched the whole series and for the life of me i jus can not seen how these matches could have gone so terriblely wrong.
Australia is the best team in the world but even with its problems england is a good team and i never thought 5-0 would be the result.
Funny game cricket.
I want to be a ozzie!
ST
Complain about this postEven though Australia have won the ashes (Yess!),I have to say this is very boring cricket.
England needs to change.
First of all, don't get rid of Flintoff. He's lovely, like a labrodour, and plays good cricket, but he isn't a leader. Just let him do his own thing and release him from the burden of captaincy.
Second of all, if Jones or Giles ever say they want to play cricket for England again, then they should be given the incorrect address or date of where or when the game is. They should never play cricket for England again. Ever.
Third, for Harmison, to rid those homesick nerves so he can bowl straight, bring everything English along when touring. As an Australian, I won't pretend I know what many of these things are, but maybe something like jellied eel, Harry Potter, and London could do.
Fourth, the next time England wins something, they shouldn't be so bloody cocky about it. Don't accuse Australia and their beautiful cricket players of being cocky.
We're not the ones who had a parade.
A huge ticker tape parade.
On a big, red bus.
Followed by MBE's.
Complain about this postI believe the magnitude of the achievement of England winning the 2005 Ashes was completely exaggerated due to the disgraceful underachievement by their predecessors. It is for this reason I believe it was an erroneous decision to award the MBE to the whole squad. At most I would have given gongs to Vaughan for his captains role, and Flintoff for his outstanding contribution.
Complain about this postWill Australia's Queen now be awarding honours to the Australian side for their historic Ashes win over England??? Fat chance.
Complain about this postI'd like to thank my surgeon for operating and re-building my knee, therefore saving me the £3000 i had ready for my tickets and travel etc to the perth and melbourne tests.
When will the England heirachy learn from their mistakes of old that preparation for the overseas tours is appalling. not just for this one but the vast majority of the tours we go on.
one 14 a side 3 day game against some small boys, and a one day game - is hardly preparation for a test in Zimbabwe let alone a 5 game match up with the world champions.
can you imagine Germany going to the footie world cup with one friendly against enfield reserves as their warm up - i think not -
wake up messrs graveney, fletcher et al - smell the coffee and get it right.
p.s. MBE's etc are dished out like sweets these days - i gave 25 quid to save the tiger at xmas so i might put myself up for one and see where i get......
Complain about this postI believe Australia would have done almost anything, short of murdering somone, in order to regain the Ashes.
Complain about this postTime and again during the key moments in each test they have gone for the jugular and not let England escape.
Not only did England fail to prepare physically they failed to condition themselves mentally and clearly had no idea just how much the Aussies wanted to win.
England seem to have assumed that, as holders of the Ashes, they would be automatically granted respect Down Under.
That they now stare down the barrel of a 5-0 whitewash only serves to show how misguided their entire complacent approach to this series has been.
Is anyone really surprised at the lack of heart and fight in the England team, perhaps a team full of Enlishmen might help!! KP bats for himself, is this a major shock - he is SOUTH AFRICAN!! he wont give a toss if England win, lose or draw as long as he grabs a few runs - he may be a good batsmen but i say ship him out and bring in a young English player who will hurt like all of us at the humiliations we have had to endure, this goes for other average overseas players as well!!
As for the dodgy umpiring decisions, this has had no effect on the results of the five test matches, Australia have had bad decisions as well as England, the ones involving England have simply been highlighted more!!
Bring on the ODI's and lets at least put up a fight!!
Complain about this postThe only time you can effectively complain about umpiring is when you win.
Any other time it is just whinging.
The umpires are neutral, and there is a process in place to review their performances
Complain about this postWhat a load of rubbish!
Complain about this postThe hierarchy of the ECB should do the decent thing and resign en masse.
Those non playing hangers on in Australia should defect.
At this rate I reckon the Aussies will give us a series every 20 years or so as it will galvanise their players to scale greater heights and give our players the attitude that they can actually play cricket.
I feel sorry for Freddie, KP and Hoggy as these are the only three who should be playing international cricket.
The rest are a spineless, gutless, clueless, hopeless bunch who will all no doubt be picked again for England.
Bring back Geoffry Boycott's grandma!
How many members of the England team would get into the Australian XI? One? (Pietersen)
Man for man, the Australian players have been far better than our overrated bunch, and I hope this isn't forgotten in an orgy of excuses.
After England lose 5-0 (by lunch) the strangely compelling misery and embarrassment will be over. I could say a lot more but will only express one hope: next time, a lot less press conferencing, interviewing, and blogging, and a lot more practice, preparation, and self analysis. All that empty fighting talk just insulted our intelligence. Action not words, please.
Complain about this postif the playing stock are not up to scratch, its time to step back and look at the system they develop through, and revise it.
Pretty simple really, just dont write it on a napkin in a bar :)
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