England face World Cup crisis
Duncan Fletcher’s decision to apologise after the match in Adelaide tells you most of what you need to know about England’s performance.
The coach normally defends his team come what may, but even he could not defend the indefensible. England’s performance was so stunningly inept that Australia appeared mildly embarrassed by the ease of their victory.
Andrew Symonds could scarcely believe the shot that Paul Collingwood played to gift him a wicket.
At a time when basic logic demanded that England regroup, Collingwood came down the pitch and lofted a tame catch to mid off. Stuart Clark was so amazed he nearly dropped it.
Collingwood’s batting, like that of Andrew Strauss, looks leaden and devoid of belief. It has reached the stage where England have little to lose by giving Ravi Bopara a chance. Handing out a debut to a young batsman six weeks before the start of the World Cup was not part of Fletcher’s one-day strategy, but it may be more beneficial to give the two jaded, experienced players a break.
The pitch was not a belter, but nor was it any way hazardous. England had the minor advantage of having batted on it three days before. Surely the lesson from the match with New Zealand was ‘be patient’. England’s ambition should have been to put 220 on the board and take if from there.
That sort of total was comfortably obtainable with disciplined, determined batting, especially after England reached 70-2 from 15 overs.
Instead the top order played an inexplicable series of careless shots. Ian Bell’s dismissal was the most frustrating. He played several crisp strokes on his way to 35 and was beginning to reverse the pressure built by the cheap dismissals of Strauss and Mal Loye but his loose cut to Michael Clarke at point was an infuriatingly soft way to go for a batsman who had done the tough part.
John Buchanan, Australia’s coach, has bemoaned England’s and New Zealand’s lack of competitiveness in this tournament. He claimed his bowlers were not being stretched in advance of potentially tight matches in the World Cup.
Mitchell Johnson for one will seldom have seen more flattering figures. He served them up and watched the batsmen self-destruct. Australia did not have to play that well to win.
"The one positive is that we’re still in the competition," said Andrew Flintoff afterwards. The crowd that streamed away early might beg to differ.
England aren't ranked No.8 in the world in ODIs for no reason. There must be some things terribly wrong in the system, such as selection policies, for there to be such a difference between the team's ODI & Test rankings (even though the ranking system is flawed). The preformances in the ODIs in Aus is pretty much par for a team that is poorly performed before the tour and then taking out some key players (due to injury, etc) out of that poor team. It is understandable if the team's supporters don't pin much hope for even getting past the 1st stage of the World Cup in the West Indies.
Complain about this post"world cup crisis"???? are england even thinking of going to the World Cup????they should be thinking about learning to play cricket again...
Complain about this postColli, Bell or Strauss should be given a rest in the next match because they are not performing and are tired. A younger batsman such as Bopara should be given a chance to play. I would rather see England losing with young players than with the same old names.
Complain about this postThey are not even on the same planet, let alone in the competition.
I just don't know what to say to this result. As an Aussie, I have been hoping since the Tests began that England would show something worth applauding, something to show that they had some ticker. I have always had a tiny part of belief that they are actually quite good cricketers, and that a good performance was just around the corner.
No more. Send them home and for the remaining games just give us a county side to play against. Or scratch up a "Rest of the World" from whoever is hanging about, it would be more interesting.
It is very clear that the County system cannot produce players equal to the Sheffield Shield system, let alone capable of test/one day play. But then what can can compete with Australia at the moment.
Maybe we should be handicapped like a racehorse that wins too easily.
Complain about this postENOUGH IS ENOUGH!! FLETCHER OUT NOW !!
Complain about this postEngland have nothing to lose by giving Strauss, Collingwood and Bell the rest of the tour off, Joyce has his chances and not taken them and again I ask , why Nixon ?? England should draft in Bopra, Prior and maybe Solanki again, they have no mental scars from this tour unlike the rest of the turkey's and they are young and aggressive cricketers who may show some fight and pride!
Complain about this postWe are in a libary lesson with Mr Ryan and we are learning computer skills. We have some very good cricketers in the under 12's if they need some new players.
Tom Parker-Mclean, Theo Murden, Ozzy Rashed.
P.S We are williing to fly out to Australia Mr Ryan has given us permission to miss school.
We await your response!!!
Complain about this postFlintoff is a joke. It should be against the spirit of the game that when Flintoff wins the toss he is not allowed to bat first. And he is not allowed to give press conferences after another poor performance. He's utterly hopeless and has no idea how to captain a cricket team. His PR people must be wondering how they can stop this so called BBC Personality self destructing. Send them all home now so the Australian public no longer waste their money on this so called cricket team..
Complain about this postEngland will continue to be slaughtered until they actually play their best players. Fletcher needs to put aside his pathetic personal issues with Shah and pick the guy, who is a far more promising batsman than Collingwood. Obviously, Read needs to play - it's simply staggering that England could choose to hand a debut to a 36yr old (who bats and keeps worse than Read) with the World Cup weeks away). England would still lose to Australia even with Shah and Read in the side, but it might be closer. Fletcher is letting personal animosities get in the way of English cricket, which to my mind is enough on its own to warrant his sacking.
Complain about this postBoprara must play all the remaining matches. Collingwood and Strauss are both shot and should come home now.
Fletch has to resign as OD coach after the world cup (1st round exit) Even if he wants to remain as Test coach, his ODI record is dismal.
What an awful performance
Complain about this postHeck, what can you say after that? I feel sorry for Flintoff. It's like 2005 is a dream. What is the big man going to be remembered for? Being man of the series then or being the captain that led England to defeat in every game, and it's looking that way, against Australia.
England needs a new start, probably a new coach, definitely a new attitude. It is vital we win the next couple of Test series', otherwise, frankly, we are back to where we were before Nasser Hussain took over as captain.
I can remember when England winning games was the norm. Awful. Awful
Complain about this postI Don't know wether to laugh or cry
Complain about this postWhy is Flintoff the Captain?-Pontin bright,clean,smart and ready to go again
Complain about this postFlintoff looked like a tramp with his scruffy beard,earing and crumpled gear-he looked half asleep and as if he had slept in it,and they played like it.
Embarrassing and disgraceful.
Management have a lot to answer for
Could our losers be any more embarrassing? I don't think any of this sorry mob should be going to the world cup. Maybe we could field a schoolboy XI? They would probably be more deserving and couldn't play any worse than this bunch of gutless wonders!
Complain about this postI'm getting tired of all the cliches and platitudes spouted by Fletcher and Flintoff. We need a tough-talking, no-nonsense coach and captain, someone who can be straight with the players, the media and public. As Nasser Hussain put it: England need some 'harsh words' and a 'back to basics' approach. So far this tour, England have lost all the Tests and one-dayers when Flintoff has been captain. He is just too nice, too much one of the boys to be a successful skipper. You need to have a certain amount of aloofness and detachment about you as captain. Ok, he's been in charge of poor sides but the side tends to reflect the character and personality of the captain. Instead of saying 'England weren't great' just admit that England have been atrocious and do something about it.
Complain about this postWhen I switched on the radio this morning the first adjective I heard used to describe England's performance was 'pathetic'. Shocking shot selection from the batsman and the only wicket in the field came from a run out! This is the worst I have ever seen an England side play and I include the dark days of the 80s and 90s. At the moment they're so bad it's unreal. And why did Graveney pick Nixon at the age of 36 when he's not international class? Read has been treated disgracefully. Sack Graveney, Fletcher and Flintoff. Changes all round!
I really don't know what to say today....except I almost feel sorry for Liam Plunkett. His hard work in the nets for the past 3 months led to 0 -batting and 0-39 bowling...erm
Complain about this postFletcher should go now before the WC and bring someone in who can clearly motivate the players again
Happy Australia day to the Aussies. Surely this will be good enough to shut the English media and the "Ashes is all that matters" Brits once and for all. The English team Can't Bat, Can't Bowl, Can't field. They only talk the talk but cannot walk the walk. And please if One Dayers are not important to England "DO NOT PLAY". "WITHDRAW FROM THE WORLD CUP". We want to enjoy a tournament with teams who want to play.
Complain about this postFor now send the boys back home and play the rest of the games with the kids in the academy. They will not do any worse that this. I am sure the whining will continue of how the team is injury hit. Injuries are part of the problem for any team so that excuse does not hold any more water. Maybe the Barmy Army could spend some time writing excuses for the English team rather than writing songs. hame on the English team
Isn't it time to give this lot a break in the hopes that they can find renewed enthusiasm before the world cup - they looked played out, flat and fed up.
Complain about this postGive the youngsters a bash - they can't do a worse job! And before the World Cup can we have some bonding so that the squad acts and plays with a degree of togetherness which is patently absent at the moemnt.
Nixon again. One certainty about this entire misdaventure is that when stumps are drawn people will deliver a harsh verdict on the wisdom of making Read second choice for both forms of the game. The shambles is hugely embarassing and dismayed to see England net preparations did not include a left arm over the wicket bowler, hence Johnson's figures.
Complain about this postThanks for ruining Australia Day for most Australians, you chumps. Its the norm to invite a whole heap of mates over for a barbie, a few beers, and to watch the cricket. This has always been a tradition of many of us over here and everyone has a good time and then leaves after the cricket's finished at about 9.30pm or so. Today, peak hour was at 6.30pm because the game was over, and everyone was heading home. Absolutely pathetic.
Complain about this postutter rubbish - the county system 18 months ago produced a team that won the ashes and did so playing good quality cricket - the fact our players are serving up utter drivel at the moment doesn't mean the county system is dead now any more than it was the solution to australia problems 18 months ago
our problems lie with our coaching, preparation and selection which has majorly gone off the boil since the ashes win - that needs sorting out first before the english league system
Complain about this postA completely spineless display from an inept England team. The decision to award the entire team MBE's for one series victory has made us a laughing stock to the aussies. What a joke. They must be giving those awards away now!!
Complain about this postWhen England are have a fully fit , motivated team , they win (Ashes 2005 as an example, 2nd place in Test ladder as confirmation). When they have injuries ,are ill prepared and demotivated and as some key players suggested before they even left for Australia due to a long schedule they felt a rest rather than a tour was needed. Unfortunately the ICC will demand they play in the somewhat unimportant limited over World Cup when that time could be spent trying to get fit players ready for the summer tests. England remain good in Tests when fully focussed . As for , the ECB they should now start taking over decisions made for the England Team's needs rather than keeping others happy, maybe cricket could be reintroduced to some state schools to attract more players although the masses will possibly not want to play a marginalised sport!!!..Look at soccer on the otherhand where the club teams are now more important than the National Team in the English and Spainish and why because they started thinking of themselves!!!! The ECB should start being a bit selfish or cricket will continue to die in England , although apart from in Australia where cricket is played by the masses , the rest of the World appears to be in the same situation!!
Complain about this postI, personally, have had enough of all the negativity surrounding the tour. What about a positive, and a topical one at that! How environmentally sound is the England team's policy - having travelled all that way to Australia, they have endeavoured to offset some of the greenhouse gas emissions produced from such a long haul flight by ending the game today before the floodlights were needed. If only we all thought insuch an enlightened manner - dont worry about saving your blushes any more lads, just concentrate on saving those ickle polar bears!!!!!!
Complain about this postVery good summary. It appears as if the loss of KP has hit the team harder than it needs to. It's almost like the team know he's our best player, and are all someway trying to play like he does when, simply, they don't have the same quality he does. On pure talent, it's probably only Bell and Freddie who come close to KP. If they just stick to what they're good at, and what got them into this England team, then we'll perform better. I think Collingwood's role is so important in this ODI team and i believe his double century against the Aussies has had an adverse affect on him, and consequently he thinks he's a better player than he is. We need him to finish our innings (like a Thorpe or Bevan) and not play stupid shots like today!
Complain about this postHow about this thrown in the hat?????
"The England Players do not want to play for Flintoff as Captain". They have just had enough of it.
Complain about this postObservation?
Every time Flintoff has left the field and Strauss has taken over we have got a Wicket, in the first over after he has left the field.
The Game against New Zwaland (the one we won, just) Vaughan back as Captain. The players are diving about in the field, the bowlers wanging the ball down at the right length and line. And when we batted we looked like we could actually bat.
Today (26th) they looked like there attitude was who gives a stuff???
Come home lads, and don't bother going to the world cup.
Join an under 11's team and relearn the basics...
Complain about this postAustralia hasn't played that well troughout the series as they haven't needed to.
England in reality should be the 4/5th. rated test side and not at the number 2 spot.
They only have 2-3 truly world class international players in their side; strip away the single century or double century of bell/collingwood and you have mediocrity!
Geoff Boycott pointed this out many months ago but there is a refusal to "really take stock" of the situation.
It would appear to the outsider that english cricket is drenched in a "job for the boys" approach to the sport.
Very disappointing as they have the best of every facility and still cannot shine.
Woolmer cannot sort the problem out as it goes to the core of the establishment. Only Bocycott or someone truly interested in the sport and not the politics will resolve the issue.
Complain about this postI think many of the England players just want to go home now. The test players seem to have had enough and want to go home.
No one expects England to win the World Cup. They should get past the group stages this time after the change in format.
Why can't England just relax and enjoy the World Cup and the one- dayers? There is no pressure on them. We expect them to be poor at one day cricket.
I'm not sure why England are putting in nervous performances in this meaningless CB series. Why can't they relax? Put those pyjamas on and have fun.
Complain about this postI'm with the crowd - this tour has become such a "disorderly retreat of defeated troops" now that it's difficult to maintain any interest. 8 nil, is it? Plus a few bonus points.
Whatever
Complain about this postI'm just ashamed to be an England fan. It's pathetic. There just seems to be no direction, no leadership, no effort - if they want to go home let them go. It's be better than getting up early to watch a side who resemble a poor club side. My team could put more effort in than the current England team. I'm a huge Duncan Fletcher fan and it's not all his fault. This started after the Ashes back in 2005 when we lost Troy Cooley and the calamitous statements by Graveney saying Flintoff will be Captain come what may - that's just pathetic. Flintoff has not captained a side since Eng U-19 and he's our best player, why give him an extra burden? There should be a hierarchy, just like Australia have. back in 2005 I thought (somewhat foolishly) that may be we were clawing our way back to level terms with the Aussies - but now i know that was just a blip of poor form from the Aussies. Their coach is right - his team is not being properly perpared for the World Cup. We're just out of our depth and its looking bad, even worse then when we were beaten by NZ back at the start of Nasser's reign.
The pathetic statement 'we're still in this competition' is insulting to all England fans.
Complain about this postAs an Australian and one that was at the Adelaide Oval to watch what i though could have been a great match, ended as the biggest joke of the summer. At the end of the test match, back in december i though wow what an amazing day of test cricket and test match.
Today i left with an empty feeling. The lights at the oval didn't even come on and it was a day/night game. England were rubbish and some of those players need to have a good hard look at themselves. The shots played are poor, it's like they play shots to get out and not score runs.
As an Aussie yeah is great but as a paying cricket fan to sit at my home Oval and watch that performance by an international cricket team, what a joke.
Complain about this postSimon,
Why are you changing my comments??? Why has it been censored?
You can't handle the truth???
Complain about this postThis is not exactly what England needed before the World Cup. It is also going to do the team no earthly good as far as battered self-belief is concerned before next summer's two Test series. Frustrated fans are getting on Duncan Fletcher's back. Eighteen months ago the fans were worried that Fletcher would bow out after the World Cup, having achieved all he could. Right now a substantial fraction of the chattering classes want him sacked.
It's true that the ODI results have been getting steadily worse - although in 2005 we gave Australia a real run for their money, so the talent and capability IS there -, but the Test side has come so far since the dark days of 1999 when they were booed off the pitch having officially taken over from Zimbabawe as the worst side in Test cricket.
There will be more screams of "sack Fletcher" and undoubtedly the boo-boys will eventually get their wish. Don't complain though if, after getting rid of Duncan Fletcher, things go rapidly from bad to worse.
Complain about this postI woke up this morning expecting to see an interesting score that I could follow and occupy some time at work, how wrong was I! Again England failed to even bat their 50 overs and again the game was over before I was even at work. It makes me ashamed to be English.
I'm sick of the comments coming out of the England camp such as "we need one player to perform" (Mr Collingwood). No, you need them ALL to perform, and at the best at that! That is likely not to be enough either. The Aussies only need to be shown the smallest glimpse of weakness and they drag the other team down before they even know what's hit them.
England thinking they will have the upper hand when the experienced Aussies leave seems to have fallen on stoney ground also! Have they not noticed that the Aussies have more than 11 good players... they're not the English team after all. That might pushing it though to say that England have 11 good players, we'll say 2 or 3 to be generous.
Please bring them home, I can't stand it any longer.
Complain about this postLet us call an end to this embarassment - bring them home immediately.
Complain about this postWe won the Ashes in England by a whisker, two of the games could have gone either way and Mcgrath was injured.
The team and management got carried away on the celebrity circuit and forgot they were professional cricketers with a demanding schedule ahead. From the day we won the Ashes it is has been down hill all the way in performance, management, preparation, mental toughness et al.
We should come home, try and regroup and make a determined effort not to be disgraced in the World Cup. I am sure we cannot win it but we can make a determined effort to be competitive.
Disappointed of Bath
Having and australian wife and with the prospect of a three week trip to Australia on the horizon with her cocky relatives, I believe I am in a better position than most to offer some advice for the next tour.
Very important to understand the Australian pack mentality. Individually lovely people but put a group of them together in a competitive situation and they can be very intimidating, brutal and uncompromising.
Finally and most importantly never ever show weakness or expect them to let up they don't and won't.
With that in mind
Allow for 4 to 6 warm up games.
Cut the one day series in half and make sure there is a gap between each test long enough for a warm up game. No one cares about the one dayers anyway except the money men and look what their scheduling has done to England this time.
Failing that push the test matches so that the majority are after christmas allowing for the boxing day test to still be at the MCG.
Schedule warm up games for squad members and young plays to get used to Australian 'banter' and crowds.
Never pick unfit or out of form players, Australia would'nt why do we.
Look at what has been successful and learn from it.
In this case propbably only KP's batting and attitude.
Reduce the series to four tests.
Complain about this postHow many match have england won in OZ? How many won was Flintoff captian? Flintoff was not captian and played his best when england won!! Maybe they should have learnt from that but then again it is england!!!!!
Complain about this postPerhaps Ed Joyce is rueing the fact that he will not be able to play for Ireland in the World Cup....!!
Complain about this postAfter Buchanan's comments I expected something more from England (don't ask me why). As soon as the match was over I felt sorry for all the patrons who wasted their Australia Day watching that drivel. Everyone should have been refunded their money. The England team should have left on the same plane as the Barmy Army. Go Aussies!
Complain about this postFor the first time in 40 years of watching England cricket at 4.30 this morning I wanted them to loose..loose badly, be humiliated, have their collective noses ground into their own mediocracy ..to reach a stage where there were beyond 'taking positives out of the game'..'building on the good points'..'picking ourselves up' etc etc
My wish was granted....and I'm furious!!
Complain about this postMake them walk back home that is all i have to say. How Many times do we pick players what just aint performing time for Maddy to come in for Strauss and give Ravi Bopara a go for Collingwood if not him get Solanki.
My Team
Maddy
Loye
Pietersen
Vaughan
Flintoff
Read
Blackwell
lewis
Broad
Andersen
Panesar
Complain about this postCan someone now explain to me the theory behind Paul Nixons selection?? Please can we get back to allowing some of the younger members of the squad to gain the expirence. Yes Nixon is a good wicket keeper but at 35 and with an average of approx 6 from these one dayers, is he really the answer?? is he really better than the likes of Read, Prior, Foster or dare I say it even Jones?? Come on Duncan think about it!! What are we gaining from his inclusion??
Also good to see that once again everyone got excited by Mal Loyes whopping 36!! only for it to be followed up by two scores below 10!! When will learn to curb our excitment about players untill they perform on a regular basis!!
Complain about this postThe thing the the England fans can't take isn't that we are losing to a very good Australian side but it is the ineptness of our performances. We are going down with no fight, guts, or heart. The decision to make Flintoff captain after Vaughan's injury is crass. Fletcher has long backed the likes of Paul Collingwood, Geriant Jones, and Saj Mahmood for this World Cup. He his judgement has been poor. He has been blinkered over players such as Mal Loye, Jon Lewis, Owais Shah, and James Foster who should have been playing one day internationals for the last 2 years ahead of the World Cup. If Shah had been given the same favourtism and run of matches Collingwood has who knows how good he could be. The more Paul Nixon fails with the bat the more ridiculous his selection is ahead of Foster, Prior, Read, Batty, Sutton, or Davies. Why have England got more backroom staff than the rest of the test nations put together when these people seem incapable of helping the team out of its slumber?
Complain about this postas an australian i want my money back after going to watch this pathetic england display.
Although its not possible England should never be allowed to bat first - Ive never been to a day-night match where it was all over before the lights came on...
pathetic load of rubbish send them home and bring out a group of 16 year old kids with ambition and enthusiasm.
These guys are overpaid, overpampered and just plain rubbish....
I will never pay to seee a touring England team again.
RUBBISH
Complain about this postWell, when things can't possibly get any worse, a performance of 110 all out in less overs than when we played New Zealand the other day and lost just shows that the tour has been a disaster.
We were always going to struggle from the outset by Not having Vaughan, Trescothick and Simon Jones, 3 of the key men to us winning in 2005. Even our one victory over NZ in the ODI only just happened so we definitely can't win with any comfort at the moment. If I had to pick a man of the series - well really I won't be able to, maybe Monty because he has done all he can do really, also Ian Bell in parts but Collingwood's dramatic collapse since his double century doesn't put him in the equation. Obviously the argument already started that Monty should have played from the outset and I can only repeat that again. Why we played Giles, I do not know. Obviously Giles was a key player in 2005 but having gone to Edgbaston in July 06 to see a 20/20 match between Warwickshire and Worcestershire and seen him on crutches - I would not have given a second thought to him even going to Australia.
I have to take my hats off to the Barmy Army who have been over there the whole time from the Very first day in Brisbane, I was there for the 4th and 5th test and although it was good to be there, the cricket itself was frustrating to watch.
So what does the future hold for us? Well Freddie although he's a legend really needs to play and not be captain, they should have given it to Strauss. With the pressure off Flintoff, he led us to victory over NZ. From the current squad going forward, Cook will get better, Ian Bell should be consistent and Monty should be there for a good while. KP and Freddie will come back good I reckon as will Strauss and possibly Vaughan, Hoggard and Harmison still have a lot to offer but open to debate who the best wicket keeper is that we should select. I just hope the world cup brings a major improvement both to performance and players confidence.
Complain about this postI am just thankful that I haven't shelled out thousands of pounds to travel half way round the world to watch this abject dross!!!
They (the players) IMO ought to think really hard before banking their pay-cheques for this tour - "Did I really earn this?".
Perhaps by donating the monies that they have received for this tour to a compensation fund for the fans, or perhaps to a suitable cricketing charity, some good could come out of this farce.
Complain about this postsadly, however bad this result is, it was not unexpected, and that is a real problem at any time let alone so close to a world cup.
The fall and fall of our national team is there for all to see but what is the coach doing about it?
Serious questions must be asked but I have no confidence in Fletcher being able to find the answers, and I dare say the players are losing theirs, if not lost, in the case of some.
Even before the world cup I feel we should be using it as preperation for the one after, a sad indictment on messers Graveney and Fletcher.
Complain about this postNothing left to say really - the only positive is we're not giving the aussies a challenge so hopefully someone will catch them cold in the world cup. Only Jamie Dalrymple's dismissal was down to good bowling, the others were just clueless shots by a team with no idea what to do.
I seriously think Kenya are going to give us a tough time in the world cup so we could still descend to new lows.
Complain about this postThere is little one can say after a performance like that. Yes, we have injuries, but the manner of the dismissals was so tame as to indicate that the players themselves don't even want to be out there and are happy to disappear as quickly as possible. Mal Loye's early six indicated he might still have a role to play as a pinch hitter but aside from his performance we are left clutching at straws.
Nevertheless, I dont think that it is too late to resurrect things before the world cup and not be utterly humiliated there. Give Strauss a rest, keep playing Panesar to get him in form and then on the West Indian pitches two spinners, Anderson, Lewis and Flintoff would be an attack capable of limiting the opposition if not bowling them out. With Pietersen back and Vaughn hopefully fit the batting would look like it had a stronger spine and undoubtedly the player's look more confident with Vaughn as captain. All that said, I think that one win against a decent side in the Windies is the best we can hope for and after that we can address the more fundemental problems of management and start building again over the summer.
Complain about this postArlo posted England's strongest one-day XI the other day - substitute Freddie for Irani and we have possibly England's worst ever XI!!
Complain about this postNormally, I would support and defend England in everything, through thick and thin, but at this moment they simply do not deserve it.
From the games I have seen, they are throwing their wickets away and look to be clueless in all areas of batting - its all very well Fletcher saying "the boys are very disappointed" but they should be completely embarrassed by the performances.
How we can expect to even compete in the World Cup is a mystery to me and banging on about a "young side learning every game" is also completely misleading - Nixon, Loye, Vaughn, Giles and Collingwood are the wrong side of 30 with freddie, strauss, and Joyce gradually approaching the milestone.
Im sorry Mr Fletcher but your time is up, you have done a great job for us but a change is most definitely needed. Lets have some NEW blood in the coaching and playing departments.
Complain about this postSimilarly to the Ashes series, despite being beaten game after game, and despite a number of players producing poor performances game after game, we continue to refuse to blood new players.
Why?
The ones we have are not good enough, their confidence is shot and by playing them and amassing these demoralising defeats is not doing anyone any good.
Complain about this postJust over a year ago everyone talked about 'The Ashes effect' encouraging kids to play cricket. What about the reverse effect this series will be having?
Complain about this postEngland are good for a few laughs and nothing more. I just cannot understand it. England is a wealthy country, with a big population, a large pool of players to choose from and good facilities. I just can't understand why they can't produce a decent team. Perhaps it is something genetical, soft living or maybe the English are just conditioned from a young age to believe that they will never be anything but losers.
Complain about this postHow to ruin careers: A) Before a major tour, do not appoint a captain with only one discipline who improves his batting as captain; B)Do not appoint a captain who is on a winning streak; C)Do appoint a captain whose batting goes down the pan when appointed captain; D)Make sure you have a coach who publicly rubbishes key players; E) Make sure the coach picks his favourites preferably those who haven't played for a long time, not those in form; and F) Make sure you pick the same captain who was whitewashed in the Ashes series for the one day series.
So you have now an opening bat who can't bat, a captain who either bats or bowls but not both and cannot win a match (any match) , an ageing wicket keeper who can't bat or keep wicket and a coach who apologises. Why is it only Astle who resigned/retired this morning?
Complain about this postI agree with the fact that Australia should be handicapped. I advocate the following:
1) England are allowed to field 11 batsmen (whilst batting) who are then able to all be subbed for 10 bowlers / specialist fielders and a WK (when fielding)
2) England only have to bowl 35 overs to the Aussies but receive 65 overs when batting
3) Australia can only field 4 male professional cricketers supplemented by 3 female professionals and 4 wives of male (or female) professional cricketers
4) The 4 wives must bowl at least 20 overs of England's 65 overs. Underarm.
5) No England batsmen can be out LBW.
6) Or caught.
7) Or run-out.
8) England batsmen are only out when bowled.
9) Australia are at risk to the "One bounce, One hand catch" rule
10) Bump balls also count as being out
11) All Aussie Batsmen must bat with the little autograph bats and are not allowed to request a replacement bat in the event that one of our bowlers actually bowls a ball straight enough that an Aussie can hit
I believe the above handicapped rules should allow for a better and more interesting game.
Oh - I also forgot the most important rule:
12) No men called Ponting, Warne or McGrath can ever play against England in any form. Ever.
Complain about this postSend them home in an open top bus,but this time all the way!
Complain about this postI am absolutely stunned by our latest guttless performance. It would appear that none of them want to be there and none of them have any passion for wearing the england shirt!
Make no mistake we do have some quality batsman and bowlers out there, with the exception of four or five in the squad that is. People like Bell, Strauss, Anderson, Flintoff and Monty are all more than capable and potential world class players. I've also got a lot of time for Chris Tremlett. The problem seems to be motivation and maybe thinking about the job a bit too much, most of them scored quicker runs in the test series!
Another problem is the constant chopping and changing of the squad, bringing in players that will never be close to making the grade! You know who I'm talking about: Bresnan, Yardy, Mahmood, Udal, Prior, G Jones, Darlymple, Nixon, Joyce.
For god sake where is Cook, where is Broad? Are the selectors saying that Plunkett is a better bet than Broad! Maybe it is a good jobs that two of our most promising youngsters are there to be damaged the way that the rest of the squad has been!
Complain about this postits come to the point like on all tours or all teams when you start losing you continue to lose and even your 'good' players underachieve. Wholesale changes are required with players from outside the current pool being brought in is the only option i can see to yield a chance at the world cup.
Complain about this postwho to remain for the carribean?
flintoff
bell
loye
panesar
anderson-just
lewis
who to join them?
hoggard
ramprakash
pieterson
ali brown
darren maddy
read
gough!!!!! i would watch them
and if you can get trescothick off his sick bed and Matt Prior hitting the ball like he can you might, just might, score more than 150!!!
Anyone planning to be at the airport to welcome the England players home?
Thought not.
Complain about this postYet again another disappointment.If I did my job as England play cricket then I'm sure I would soon be looking for other employment.Are there not any good and consistant batsmen in this country? Todays exhibition was a disgrace.Having sat up and watched it,I feel I was cheated out of a good nights sleep.
Complain about this postSurely we all have had enough of all these bad performances, how can they get worse?
There is no way of papering over the obvious.
Fletcher has lost his players, they don't respect him.
It's time to go now, and maybe he'll have a chance at being remembered as a decent coach.
If he stays much longer, we'll remember him on a par with Illingworth.
So please GO NOW! and get someone to inject the team with Impetus and excitement and someone who will pick the best players regardless of their character.
It might just give us a chance in the World Cup as well.
Complain about this postShane (1) you dill. I always thought Graeme Smith was the best puller in the world. Its unfortunate that your comments were the first posted in this forum. Its typical of the situation that the poms (lower case intended) find themselves in and the way they have played to have people still insisting on talking about injuries and selection policies. Australia rested McGrath and Bracken, two of our better performers, today, we rested Ponting recently (and still won), we have Watson (an integral part of our ODI setup) out due to injury, we have selection controversy in relation to people like Jacques, Rogers, Voges, Katich, Tait, and MacGill being omitted, and were still doing everything in a canter.
Advice to England. Never again show the temerity or audacity or luck to win the Ashes ever again. When you didn't you were always a chance to win one consolation Test, or at least draw one, or win one ODI.
Dont blame selection or injury or even the coach. Just remember your place in the order of things, and I'm sure you'll get by without being humiliated like you are now.
200 years ago you got rid of your undesirables (by your own high standards) by sending them to Australia. Dont think for a minute you can get rid of this pathetic side by doing the same thing.
Complain about this postThere are no words
Complain about this postI hope this doesn't sound to pathetic; but when a football team (with the exception maybe of the England national team!) gets in the situation that the England cricket team find themselves in it's always the manager and his staff that go; we could play a completely different starting 11 and I'm sure we'd still loose, we're in a very deep rut and we need someone to pick us out and a kick up the backside to measure.
I've always been a fan of Duncan Fletcher's and we have a lot to thank him for but I think enough is enough and it's time for him to step down. There's only so much he can do and It's obviously it's just not working any more. People have said we should wait until after the World Cup but I don't see why as I can't see us doing much over there so why not get a fresh coach in for starters? the coaching staff etc can wait until later. I just think a fresh injection of enthusiasm and knowledge will get us out of this rut and at least help us put in a respectable performance or two.
Complain about this postI think everyone has already said everything there is to say about the England.
All we can hope for is make the sky sports subscription a worthwhile investment. Give the public a chance to watch some cricket.....!!!!
Options:
1. Reverse the Australian batting order!!!
2. Play Australia A
3. Show cricket on BBC/C4 - noticed the fact that England we doing good when shown on terrestrial TV. Now its on Sky...start to play poorly. :)
........but then England will still loose.
Complain about this postBring the boys home and take their central contracts off them, they must be in breach of contract, which I thought was to play cricket.
Complain about this postForget about the world cup and let the boys concentrate on their various modelling and advertising committments.
What a useless shower! Can they have their pay docked for not living up to their job description of 'cricketers'? It might stop the good ol' boozy lads going out to town so much and make them spend every spare hour sober in the nets.
Complain about this postHow more embarrassing can it get?
The sooner this tour is over the better ! Unfortunatley the world cup is just around the corner and we will go with the hapless bunch of players.Its really time now for Fletcher to stand down.The selection committee should also go.We need a total rethink of where we are going especially with the one day format because Fletcher does not understand what is required.I just hope when the inquest takes place at Lords they all recognise this and move on to a new chapter with fresh people in charge.
Complain about this postIn the words of the president from the film 'Independence Day', when the USAF was annihilated in an alien dogfight, "Get them outta there!"
Complain about this postEngland should put 17 plane tickets on the table and tell anyone who wants to go home to get lost now. There are journeyman pro's on the county circuit who play week in, week out, giving 100% all the time. They would give anything to get even ONE England cap. These guys are spolit rotten with central contracts and soft lifestyles. Chuck them all out and bring in grafters and guys who really want to die for the England shirt. As for that apology, it is totally unacceptable for professionals to have to apologise for their performance. That means they are not giving 100%, which is exactly the opposite of what England have been claiming for the last 3 months. Pathetic!
Complain about this postWholesale changes need to be made for the next game Nixon needs to be binned hes done nothing with the bat and looks well out of his depth in international cricket. Vaughan to come in for Strauss, Bopara for either Dalrymple of Collingwood.
Complain about this postI said to my mate last night as I placed a bet on England to beat Australia "They have to win at least one"
Complain about this postI know I know im an Idiot!!
hopless
Pure disbelief this morning. The selectors need to sit down and have a long look at themselves and this effect this apparant buddy system is having on the team. Following on from ashes blunders ie bowling options not being bowled, "wheely bin" giles over panesar saga and the great wicketkeeper merrry-go-round, it feels like we are repeating those mistakes here. No-one seems to get dropped within the england camp. Damien Martyn fell on his sword during the ashes as he realised his performances weren't good enough and the axe was going to be wielded. I feel if Fletcher, Graveney and co were in charge of the aussie team that Katich would be both in test and OD teams and Hussey would be stuck bringing the drinks on.
Why Nixon was brought in with so little time to the world cup is an absolute mystery, especially when he is more inept at all aspects of the game in comparison to Read (except at getting scratchy singles to backward square). There are a number of good one day keepers with age on their side who are more than capable to surpass Nixon's tentative and ineffective sweeping with actual steady batting. Baring the obvious that Read and Prior are already in Aus; Foster, Wallace and Pothas should have all been considered before Nixon.
Also, despite a decent one day career before this series, it is becoming more apparant that collingwood is there for his bowling. His batting confidence has hit the floor since his ashes 200. With Dalrymple seemingly being ignored with the ball in hand would it not be more prudent to move colly down a batting position and swap Dalrymple with a genuine batsman? I'm preparing for world cup humiliation and embarassment as we speak.
Complain about this postoliver,
i was at the game in adelaide and yes it was a disgrace...the lights where on..in fact local time 5:30pm....we all asked why...but they were on...please give the people in england a true reflection of the events. I live in adelaide and i thank god that i do not have to watch any more live games here!
Complain about this postHmmm, I like the sound of a handicap for Australia, how about their bowlers are only allowed to bowl underarm at a speed of around 70 mph, and their batters must bat with the opposite hand to how they normally do. That should create an even, well fought contest.
With regards the latest embarresment, what can we lose with playing youngsters for the remaining ODI's. Let Strauss and Collingwood have a rest. I disagree that Nixon should be dropped, I rate him more as a one day player than Read. Read hasn't batted well in ODI against top class teams and Nixon's first knock of the series shows that he has the necessary skills.
Complain about this postIt's hard to see where the next victory over Australia is going to come from. With Vaughan back we may scrape a win against a poor New Zealand, but even that is off little comfort.
What aren't so hard to fathom are the reasons for this calamitous tour. The first over by Harmison in the first test simply reflected the overall lack of match practice by the whole team. More concerned with getting their families out for a bit of winter sun, the England players have badly let down the country who expected so much.
With thousands of our soldiers facing daily danger in several war zones it is hard to reconcile the moans of "overworked' players. You could argue that the soldiers knew what they were getting when they signed up.But so do the players. Cricket involves long periods away from home. If they don't like it then let someone who wants to do the job replace them.
I hope in all forms of english sport we have seen the end of the wag culture.Quite frankly it is an embarassment to the country. What next,wifes having their own roomat lords so they can be near to hold hands with hubby if things go wrong.
Complain about this postThe Aussies can now claim 'job done'. They have systematically dismantled England both practically and psychologically. So effective has this been (and let's face it this is what they intended from the moment they regrouped after the Ashes in 2006) that we are now self destructing on their behalf.
This is a tough one - and it will take them returning to base before anything effective can be done. The World Cup is just going to compound the problem.
Complain about this postI've said it before, Why don't we pick the top 5 English Batsmen that finished with the highest average in the Domestic one day game, the top 4 bowlers with the higest average, a wicket-keeper and the Captain of the side winning the league (as long as they are English) It's a bit 'out there', But at least we know they can play!!
Complain about this postshame on englands players what they display in this oneday match against aussi.match after match england players said they bounceback next match,and always disappoint.now is time to go duncen fletcher,and appoint new coach like woolmer.
Complain about this postWhat an utter disgrace. Its obvious that throughout this tour apart from brief sessions we have been totally outplayed yet again. For me this time there is no excuse... 70 -2 to 110 all out..a decent start and then they let themselves down with rash shots. I dont think australia actually got any of us out we gave out wickets away. We know that england are poor in ODI cricket but the least that we should be getting from the team is competing a some pride in the performance.
Freddie should not be captain especially after the ashes although in all fairness I dont think any of the other players deserve to be captain either..
Nixon... yer another player who does well in county cricket but has struggled big time with the bat to make the step up
collingwood... you havent done a thing since your double hundred i think that out of all of the batters for the next game he should go... vaughen will be back and id also drop joyce and play ravi.. who has done very well for essex in od games.
the only positves to come from this series is that monty has stuck two fingers up at fletcher and showed that he can take wickets and bowl very tight in odi, the return of vaughen and maybe if your being really nice the retuen of jimmy andersons form.... the rest have been a disgrace... winning one match does not mean you are good... you have to keep on winning to become good...
jsut shows how much we miss kp.
Complain about this postIt was a beautiful day in Sydney today, we strolled by the harbour enjoying the Australia Day festivities and looking forward to an evening with a cold beer and cricket on TV. The signs were ominous when England won the toss and didn't improve as they contrived to ruin the evenings entertainment.
I'm so frustrated with this miserable England team. The South African ring-in goes home, a couple of yesterday's heroes pull up short, and all that's left is a collection of journeymen without a plan or any discernable talent. This tri-nations contest has been destroyed by a team that, despite all its show of on-field scrums and big talk, fails in the very basics of the game.
I guess 2005 now lives amongst all the other faded glories in England's past, and we'll await the next contest in a generations time when the scars have once again faded and few more residency qualifying periods have been passed.
Maybe we should bring back Australia A?
Complain about this posti have been defeding the side as much as possible over this ashes tour, but this is beyond a joke. how can a side of supposed international quality have no idea how to build a total, in any form of cricket. there are people playing sunday league cricket with more know how than them. its just disgraceful
Complain about this postRemember this TMS blog article, Simon?
England spirit shakes Aussies
Simon Mann 19 Jan 07, 12:19 PM
“There were boos at the toss in Brisbane when Andrew Flintoff decided to bat first.
The crowd had come to watch Australia rattle up four hundred against the dispirited Poms and one e-mail to ABC radio even claimed England should be banned from batting first.”
The venue might have been Adelaide this time but, once again, the crowd booed when AF won the toss! One can understand why with what was to ensue when England came to the crease. Even Australian coach John Buchanan’s jibes could not instil any modicum of grit or pride into the English batsmen but they may have hit a Duncan Fletcher nerve leading to his apology for the team’s poor performance.
I sympathise with AF who is bearing the brunt of the criticism – we just need to accept that this team is well below international standard and forget the excuses. For a start, Nixon needs to be told that actions speak louder than words! As for ‘Lord Lucan’ Plunkett, his social column blog is an embarrassment – his performance, like Nixon’s, did not match his rhetoric.
Perhaps a more appropriate heading may have been ‘English spirit has Aussies shaking their heads?’
Complain about this postHave to disagree with DMC, I think the county system IS to blame for this current situation England find themselves in. The 2005 Ashes were won essentially with McGrath not anywhere near fit or not even there, and the rest of the team out of form barring Warney's bowling. England played at thier absolute maximum and won the series 2-1, and we all know it could have been otherwise - they were the better team no doubt about it; on the day.
There are just too many teams in the County system, giving too many places to pie chuckers and dibber dobbers.
Cut the Counties down to 6-7 regional teams, get rid of the dead wood in the upper management of the ECB, and hire some tough SOBs to guide the future of English cricket (Allan Border & Steve Waugh, maybe Mark Taylor comes to mind, Stephen Fleming when he retires..). Don't let the Troy Cooley debacle ever happen again.
Complain about this postAs good a job as DF has done in the Test arena, he has done an equally bad job with the ODIs. Far too much chopping and changing, too many bit part players and poor tactics expose the fact the DF is all at sea in the one-day game.
Complain about this postGiven the increasing difference between the two forms of the game, we must now have a specialist coach for each discipline. There is no point in waiting until after the WC. If we go with DF in charge, we stand no chance. Someone has to come in now.
How much longer can this humiliation go on.The capitulation of this team yet again is embarrassing beyond belief. Bring them home now and replace them with the academy. They surely cannot do any worse?
Complain about this postIt's rare that i agree with Aussies but Scotty is spot on, the one day competition has been a joke....what i worry about most is all the hard work done in 2005 to make cricket popular again in England is being undone by every embarrassing defeat we suffer.
As a proud England fan and Barmy Army supporter who travelled all over Oz on the last 2 Ashes tours it pains me to say this but the last 2 games make me cringe with the World Cup only 7 weeks away, can we be any worse than World Cups 1996 & 1999? Watch this space.....
Complain about this postI never thought i'd be scared of facing Kenya or Canada but the way we're heading, they must be licking their lips at the thought of facing us.
Complain about this postThere are NO positives, Freddie! Please face reality!!!!
Complain about this postflintoff should go back to being a normal player on the team because he can't handle the pressures of being captain. Micheal Vaughan is clearly a better captain but he keeps getting injured. even trescothic is of injured and those are the bigger names. England needs a confidence boost. if they keep on losing like this the faith i had in them will vanish for good
Complain about this postA TYPICAL ENGLAND PERFORMANCE, THEY HAVE'T GOT A CHANCE IN THE WORLD CUP, THIER BEST BET IS NOT TO ENTER IT! WHICH WILL SAVE THE FANS A LOT OF DISAPPOINTING TIMES.
Complain about this postPut it in perspective lads, all this Flintofff bashing etc.. Simple solution here, remove the pressure of captaincy from him. Let him get back into his roll as an allrounder before he loses any more self respect and dignity as captain.
Some people are captains, some are not. Remember Botham.
Regarding the game in general I'm clueless. I Dont know what to think of this 9 wicket loss.
- Joel
Complain about this postI aplaud the achievement of Duncan Fletcher in coaching the Ashes win 2005. I was at Lords on the first day and although it ended on a low, the talent and fight were there for all to see.
By the time that I got to the SCG for the Twenty20 we had lost the Ashes to a whitewash and lost all confidance in any remaining ability.
Please, please Duncan Fletcher admit that 2005 was your pinnacle and that fresh blood and thinking is needed to pick England back up off the floor and re-establish some basic self-belief.
In football the manager is always responsible for the results or lack of them. Change now if only with a temporary coach for the World Cup. Who? We need Australian mentality - is there an Australian who would take on the England job?
Paul JL
Complain about this postThe coach has to go NOW. In any other sport they wouldn't wait until after the WOrld Cup.
Complain about this postIt has to be obvious that England are heading for oblivion at the World Cup. Under Fletcher, they are demoralised and clearly lacking in confidence. Never mind the fact that the guy can't pick a team to save his life. ANY coach coming in now would give England a better chance at the World Cup - come on, how often do you see it in the Premiership, some team bound for relegation pick up and win a few games under a new coach just because there's a bit of morale and a fresh viewpoint injected?
Watching this shambolic disaster makes me glad I married an Aussie and my son will be eligible to play for Australia.
Send them home, enough is enough. At least let the Australian public watch something decent - perhaps an Australian A side.
completley and utterly pathetic
Complain about this postThe England Cricket team with the expection of maybe 1 or 2 players are not as good as they and we all think they are, we've becoming just like the England football team, overpaid and pampered and looking like they couldn't care less about pulling on an England shirt and representing thier country (apart from that South African fella). The media hype was so great after the Ashes win in 2005 that some of our players actually believed they are a hell of a lot better than they really are. Here's the bottom line, our players just aren't good enough to play for England and compete against the Aussies.
Complain about this postIts so embarrasing, thank goodness they will be home soon. Considering we've been planning our one day strategy for 4 years now and looking over the the current shambles it would be fair to say that any planning has not worked even with all the injuries. I'd bring back all the old guard for the World Cup and go for experience.
Ramprakash, Butcher, Hick, Gough, Caddick, Ealham..........
I'm a staunch England fan but am so disillusioned that picking the old guard would fill me with more hope going into the World Cup than the team that are so disappointing at the moment.
We could then start with a clean slate after the tournament, review our selection and build for the future. I would like to see a separate coach come in for the one day team with new ideas and a long term plan.
Complain about this postPlease, Please, take them home.
Failing that, just take them anywhere but here!
Complain about this postAn analogy that springs to mind is Henman losing 4-6 0-6 2-6 to Federer last Wimbledon - the same scoreline as the Roddick SF yesterday. The best we can hope is that Australia are so good, they are capable of thrashing other teams in the same way.
Complain about this postPlease please please bring them home now. They are a disgrace and an embarrasment to the nation. Yes Austrailia are a class outfit but I am sure a side sent from the academy would put up a better show.
Poor old Freddy keeps making a fool of himself when he talks after these games. All he needs to say is we are rubbish, sorry.
Complain about this postThis is not a cricket tour but a British taxpayer funded long summer holiday down under for the English cricketers, their wifes and girlfriends, coaches , support staff etc.
There are three remaining games for England and I hope England does not squeeze in to the Commonwealth bank triseries final as the cricket loving public of Australia want to see some competition for the finals. New Zealand atleast have the guts and try their hearts out and would make the finals competitive, the gutless English players would make it a lopsided show.
Complain about this postHaving been following the cricket around Australia since November, we reached a new low today. Despite all the injuries, it is the lack of fight and lack of pride that is the hardest pill to swallow. At least we have an apology from Fletcher today - this should have been forthcoming weeks ago! This tour has been a shambles from the moment Trescothick flew home and it is getting worse. The sooner it is over and we can draw a line under it the better. From a disillusioned fan in Adelaide.
Complain about this postWhat a selection Nixon has been, lets give the old man his slippers and pipe and give him a free buss pass and move on with someone like Foster or Prior who have the ability to play Cricket. Also give Bopara a chance he has been class for essex this season and lets be honest with individual scores in the england team of 6 8 12 he cant really do much wrong can he? even a duck would be seen as good score
Complain about this postSimon, Everyone knows that England did not perform today, but you can't take anything away from the Aussies though. When are you going to accept that Australia is way too good than the rest of the world? When Aussies beat England in Brisbane you implied that only if it was not for a wrong decision in favour of Hussy, Aussies would have lost. Now, England was not good enough - well, when was the last time they were good enough?
Complain about this postI would really like to see what you have to write when England really play their best - without a fault - and still (obvioulsy) lose against against Australia.
I am a kiwi living in the UK for the last 9 years and in my time here England has always focussed on test cricket and rightly so when producing performances like the Ashes in 2005. However, England's establishment have never embraced ODI cricket - it was not that long ago when you were playing 55 over matches and would not allowing colour uniforms. You may think these are superficial but it’s all part of embracing the game. For me the ODI performances are not a surprise and unfortunately when your test cricket team does not perform it really demonstrates the weakness of England cricket. My colleagues at work gave me a hard time when NZ lost the first ODI, but I confidentially said that NZ would win the remaining matches against England and would take at least won win from the Ozzies – I am confident this will still happen. One other thing, unfortunately England will never perform in the international arena consistently until they have a mental toughness and believe they deserve to compete with the best. Australia have this in abundance, look how they performed in the football world cup. The good news for England is that you can instil this belief but it does take time. For example, NZ will finally break their ‘choking’ mentality at this year’s rugby world cup, but it has taken a good ten years to rebuild this belief which saw them mentally dominate their opponents for so long.
Complain about this postI thought England hit rock bottom against NZ but no we can still go lower it seems.
We seem to think that the only way up is to "try and slog" whereas gutsy slower sensible batting is something we do appear to be capable of.
It is natural to think "sack the lot and start again" but the new faces in the side are doing even worse than the likes of Collingwood who is deeply embarrassing.
Complain about this postDo what Pakistan did after 2003 worldcup sack all of them and bring new young players and a good coach.
Complain about this postThe handicap system is ideal.
England could bat first, and then Australia batsman come out either in Fancy Dress ala It's a Knockout.
or they could come out with differant Sport racquets and clubs. Brett Lee could have a golf club. Ponting could have a Tennis Raquet etc.
I imagine the score would read
Eng 99 AO 27.5 Overs
Australia 101 - 0 17 Overs
We still wouldn't win would we.
Complain about this postI live in St. Vincent where warm -up matches for the World Cup are being held. Should I bother going to see England vs. Australia or should I swap my ticket for Barbados vs. Australia? On present form, Barbados are likely to keep Australia longer in the field.
Surely it is now time for Fletcher to leave, Flintoff to stand down as captain and a complete re-think of English cricket from top to toe?
Complain about this postSo many thoughts on a tour that started out with such high hopes! England's cricketers are not useless, incompetent and all the other derogatory adjectives used to describe them but something is badly wrong and all the speculation in the world is not going to correct the problems.
Complain about this postYes, I agree that asking Freddie to captain the side is probably a burden too far. Shades of Ian Botham? The games England won v. NZ and came close to winning v. Australia were under Vaughan's captaincy - does that not send a message? I just hope that the experience does not adversely affect the enthusiasm of players like Monty, Freddy and KP and the potential of Dalrymple for example.
I think that we need to look at a number of issues, including tour itineraries with 2 or 3 4 day warm up games and 4 day matches between all Tests, as well as the structure of the County game. Perhaps reverting to 4 day championship games regularly throughout the season with 50 over matches once a week on Sundays only. 20/20 could be festival for the end of season in September, after the One Day final, as a combination of 'fun' cricket with a serious element of competition and spectator attraction. The Test match players should be released to play for their counties. We have heard so much about nets not being an adequate substitution for time in the middle that excluding England players from their counties is no longer acceptable.
I do wonder if the 'powers that be' who run our game ever take any notice of what is said not just by the 'experts' but the rest of us who take time to post these comments.
The problem here is surely one of motivation. Fletcher has demonstrated that he is most definitely not the man to take England forward. Even this close to the world cup the ECB should grasp the nettle and remove him. In the same way that the appointment of a new football manager often leads to an upturn a change now would surely have a galvanising effect. The England players need to be inspired and taken out of their current comfort zone. Fletcher has shown that he in inept and unable to motivate. Remove him now (and Graveney).
Complain about this postSo... England score 110 all out and the only Australian wicket is a run out... who or what are they going to blame this time as the Aussies were missing a couple of their top-line players?
Complain about this postfor those of who who think you will go out in the first round of the world cup, please. Two joke teams and New Zealand. NZ may beat you but you will progress.
As for the 'super 8' or whatever they are called now, that is when you will struggle and exit then
Complain about this postI'm in total despair and bewilderment at how bad England are at 1 day cricket.
Complain about this postIt's bad enough to see England losing matches, but to see players get paid good money for serving up such abysmal, gutless and downright atrocious displays game after game is heartbreaking.John Buchanan's scathing criticism of the inept batting displays would inspire most teams, but seems to be 'water off a ducks back' with this team. England's one day cricket form has been, apart from a few decent displays, been in steep decline since the 1992 World Cup Final. They seemed to have reached a new low, if that's possible, on this tour, just in time for further humiliation in the forthcoming World Cup. Happy Days !!
One thing i have noticed this summer, the english journo's never ever ever give credit to a better team, whinging and scapegoating seem to be the national ethos.
Johnson for example bowled fantastic in his second spell but no england are said to have gifted him his wickets.
Complain about this postFletcher said he wanted to rest Strauss and Collingwood, but couldn't as he had no one to bring it - has he forgotten Bopara?
Personally I would rest Fletcher. His thinking has become increasingly illogical and bizarre. Clearly his brain is frazzled if he thinks Nixon is more effective than Read and a better batsman than Dalrymple. This series has exposed his lack of strategy, poor decision-making and inability to motivate the team - they look jaded, homesick and beaten.
On top of the Ashes debacle (where Fletcher preferred out of form players like Giles, Jones and Anderson to last Summer's regulars Panesar, Read and Mahmood) his position as coach and selector is untenable. After performing a miracle to win the 2005 Ashes (where much credit goes to Vaughan), he looks past his shelf life.
Complain about this post"England Face World Cup Crisis"???
You mean they didn't before today? Good grief.
Mr. Mann, your perfomances of late mirror the England team. Time to come home.
Complain about this postWell, another predictable loss by England and another abject performance. It is no disgrace to lose to this excellent Australian team but it is the manner of the loss that is the problem. You would hope to see some fight from England, a bit of pride and determination to occupy the crease.
On this form it is hard to see England making the finals of the Commonwealth Bank Series and maybe this wouldn’t be such a bad thing. The sooner this ghastly tour is over the better! It is hoped that lessons have been learnt and the same mistakes won’t be made again
Complain about this postEngland are trying to play what is undoubtedly a decent test team with bits and pieces taped onto it like a kindergarden project, i.e. Ed Joyce, Jamie Dalrymple, Mal Loye, Paul Nixon.. the batsmen have no sense of urgency, don't know how to rotate the strike, don't know how to get singles, doubles, don't know how to build an innings in limited overs.. add fielding which is slower than a Perodua and bowling which is one-dimensional and it's clear to see that England are still stuck at base 1 when they had just invented the limited overs game, while everyone else has moved on and taken the game to greater heights.. just like their football and rugby teams.. it's just the English mentality of being conservative..
Complain about this postFirstly drop Freddie as captain he clearly hasn't got the leadership qualities required, give it to some like Loye, who has a shown an attacking approach and no fear of the Aussies, maybe his approach would rub of on the rest of the team.
Secondly why pick a wicket keeper like Nixon, he's 36 and lacks the talent to have a significant impact at the top level. Why not try someone like davies he's young, got talent and couldn't do any worse.
Thirdly why isn't Broad in the team, he's young, and has proved himself to be one of the best preasure situation/death bowlers we have in the 20/20 competition, he also possesses the same metronomic style as Clark and McGrath, remember those to?
I don't think that currently we have the players to beat Austrailia, but at least we could be more competitive and keep and eye on the future until the likes of, Rashid, davies, Bopara, Broad, Plunkett mature. Until then let the nightmare continue!!!
Complain about this postSo... England score 110 all out and the only Australian wicket is a run out... who or what are they going to blame this time as the Aussies were missing a couple of their top-line players?
Complain about this postAs an aussie I want to see Australia win every game. As a cricket fan however I want see a good (and occasionally a great) game. What's wrong with England posting a score of 280, which Australia then chases down in 45 overs? Australia wins big, England loose & the fans get their money's worth. Everybody's happy! The biggest disappointment of all is that it is no longer fun to have a go at my English mates. We coped it for 15 months, and now after only a few weeks of giving it back, it seems crass to do so. I truly fear for the future of the sport. I think I will take up watching curling. At least those guys with the brooms show passion.
Complain about this postIt is now patently obvious that the current ODI England team cannot produce any better results than those they have achieved to date. This is now proving woeful preparation for the World Cup and surely it would be better to get this team off the park and let our youngsters take over. I switch on my radio every cold , wet, dark morning hoping against hope that this time it will be different - and it NEVER is!
Some of our players might benefit by being made to work a 5 day week in the UK throughout the Winter, so they really appreciate what a privilege it is for them to be representing their country in Australia.
Anyway, I was in Trafalgar Square in 2005 - seems a very long time ago now.
NOT GOOD ENOUGH - BUCK UP!!
Complain about this postI NO LONGER CARE!
Complain about this postTHANKS BOYS, AND I MEAN BOYS!
in class teacher asks little johnnie what his father does for a living.
Complain about this postjohnnie answers:"" he is a stripper in a nightclub and after work he is a prostitute"
after class the teacher asks johnnie:"is your father really a prostitute?"
"ofcourse he isn't"replies johnnie,"but i did not want the class to know he plays cricket for england!"
What everyone fails to understand is that England are poor at the one day format, we regularly get stuffed in ODI series after test series that we've won.
Sacking the entire team,backroom staff, cooks, gardeners etc does not help a losing team win, it creates a new losing team with no backup.
England are a team of good players who have been battered by the Aussies first, and the press second.
England have no confidence at the moment, and form is all about confidence.
Give the guys a break, the test series is lost, the ODI series is lost already and the sooner the team can get home and regroup away from newly converted 'fans' who think that cricket is like football the better.
Complain about this postThe team selection policy is shot to pieces. Why can we not get our most talented cricketers fit and primed to beat the best in the world. Ian Blackwell is naturally talented (as our many others on the county circuit) and if he were Australian he would be seen in the same light as Symonds or Darren Lehman.
Complain about this postWhat happened to the passion and pride at wearing the 3 lions ?!?!
Spineless, gutless, heartless, pathetic !!!
You wouldn't have used any of those words about an England player in the summer of 2005 !
This team is an absolute disgrace !!!
I certainly don't think Fletcher is blameless in this tour, far far from it, but the players are the ones on the pitch and with a few possible exceptions (KP, Hoggard, possibly Bell, possibly Flintoff) the rest have been under achieving everytime they walk onto the pitch.
To me the attitude of some of our players was typified when only 7 of the squad and only 3 from the New Zealand hammering earlier in the week headed to the optional nets session instead of the beach or golf course. How does that look ?!
Complain about this postI was disgusted enough after 3rd test to cancel my subscription to Sky which i'd only got for the cricket. I'm now tempted to throw away my radios so I don't have to suffer any more. We are a disgrace, outplayed in every department by the Aussies. We won last time by a narrow margin in a series we should have cantered, this time the roles were reversed but they have the capacity to ram home the advantage and leave us in complete disarray. The preparation for the tour was shambolic, and the preparation for the World Cup should have started with this one-day series. Is Nixon the future? I know he's new to the international game but he's got to get up to speed pretty quick before he qualifies for a bus pass. Mouthing off behind the stumps doesn't make you a stumper, and his performances with the bat have been pitiful. If Read isn't going to be picked we should be looking to the future, Davies has been mentioned lots but not by the selectors. We are told that keepers have to be decent batsmen, and that was also the reason that Monty was overlooked, but it seems that Freddie can be an all-rounder without producing the goods with the bat. Harmisons problems were well reported last time he was kept out of Championship cricket and lost rhythm, but was allowed to arrive in Oz undercooked. Mahmood has got his pick presumably on the strength of Lancashire's Lloyd and Atherton's praise but has proved to be not good enough. Stuart Broad looks like a prospect, why wasn't he taken? Fletcher is past his sell-by and needs to be replaced. Give Botham, Boycott or Willis the opportunity to put up or shut up, I think they would do a far better job if they'd accept the challenge. Meanwhile, could someone write to me and let me know when things are better so I can go and buy a replacement tv & radio.
Complain about this postTaxi for England! Our honoured hero's should not be humiliated in this way. Let's get them home and then tour Canada during the World Cup to hopefully get some confidence before the mighty West Indies come here in May
Complain about this postP.A.T.H.E.T.I.C.! Totally uncompetitive...They may as well forfeit the rest of the matches, go home and try and regroup for the World Cup...
Flintoff should not be captain, the workload is too much for him, and he's just looking tired and jaded now, emphasised by the fact he's seemingly given up shaving and showering.
Fletcher should be sacked. His coaching and selection has been absolutely woeful during the (Australian) summer, losing every single match so far against the Aussies. What's he doing picking this ageing dud Nixon, whose only talent seems to be possessing a big mouth, when you have a very good keeper in Chris Read. Why is Hoggard not playing? And why did Harmison wimp out and retire from ODIs?
Is there absolutely no depth in English cricket? It's pretty funny that Beefy called the Aussie test team "Dad's Army", when England are playing ageing hacks like Mal Loye and Nixon. Most of the team would be lucky to get a game for one of our states sides. Loye, Nixon, Joyce, Tremlett, Plunkett, Lewis, Dalrymple, Collingwood (on current form) are all duds.
Our quandary is which bowlers to leave out of the World Cup squad as Bracken, Lee, McGrath, Clark, Johnson, Hogg and Hilfenhaus have all looked good. However, none of Tremlett, Plunkett, Dalrymple or the like are good enough. Monty's the only one who looks half decent (even if he's a dodgy fielder who can only throw the ball about 20 metres!), but the Pommy batsmen have been so poor, there's nothing to defend.
At the very least, let Flintoff go home, let his wife re-introduce him to the concepts of showering and shaving, let him have a break and get back to his best. As much as we like beating the Poms, it's no fun when a champion like Flintoff is looking defeated before a match has even started.
This current team should be a national embarrassment to you Pommies...Shane Warne was right, what a joke Collingwood has an MBE!
Complain about this postLet's face it, England have been pitiful in the One Day version for years. I can't remember the last time we looked consistently able to win one day games against even poor opposition. The selection process seems to equate to having a large proportion of the test side, plus any random guess or three from the county ranks. There seems to be little or no actual game planning, with players not appearing to understand what their roles are or should be. We are so bad at the moment that I would probably turn down a free ticket to watch us in a one day game, unless it was decent opposition who were going to bat first!
Complain about this postCome on England....you are just not a good enough side. Its that simple. What the worst part of this travesty is that the excuse has already been invented: "Key players are/were injured". The fact is that during the Ashes series you were missing just 2 key players:Vaughan and Trescothick. Bell,Strauss,Pietersen and Collingwood are the basis of your Middle order batting and they played all the games in the Ashes. and you got drubbed.
Now we're hearing "Oh,we're playing badley because of the injuries".Utter nonsense.You arnt good enough-plain and simple. Poor discipline,poor motivation,very poor tactically,bad application...you just cant afford these things against the Aussies.
Complain about this postGot up at 6.45 as usual, went into the kitchen and put on the kettle and radio and heard Ponting was batting. 'Strewth (or thoughts to that effect) what sort of total will they post?' Went into the room and switched on TV to see that the Aussies were chasing (what a misnomer) our total! Appalling. We have played a day night match without the night. 5.30 start UK time time against NZ on Tuesday. Will the match last til I go to work?
Complain about this postENGLAND'S LOWEST ODI SCORES v AUSTRALIA
86 Old Trafford 2001
93 Headingley 1975
94 Melbourne 1979
110 Melbourne 1999
110 Adelaide 2007
Lost to new Zealand by 120
Lost to Australia by 110
If they keep this rate of improvement this team should set another record!
COME ON ENGLAND!!!
Complain about this postYOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!
This whole tour can be seen as a sad endightment of current english culture. The culture of superficial. Celebrity for nothing (OBEs anyone?), a fast buck, and quick and easy solution to everything. Look flash but have no substance.
Complain about this postGone is the idea of hard graft towards distant goal whose success is its own reward.
Our batting performance summed this up in a nutshell.
Thank you very much Fletcher and Co, for making me sound like my grandfather.
Absolutrly disgraceful.
Complain about this postNo more glove touching, shaven heads , gum chewing or huddles. Just play the game.
Rumour has it that for future ODIs the organisers have asked the England batsmen to pick new tunes to walk onto the pitch to. All tunes should be of at least 15 minutes in length and have a slow, funerial tempo. It is hoped this new measure will lengthen the England innings and so stop games ending ridiculously early.
Complain about this postI was dismayed by Angus Fraser's comments on Radio 4 this morning after the end of the match when John Buchanan's comments about England and New Zealand not giving Australia a proper game were being discussed.
Fraser suggested that this was not something that should worry England or New Zealand (nor any of the other international teams) but rather that it was something Australia had brought on themselves by being so much better than anyone else.
Such negative thinking from a respected cricketer like Fraser makes me wonder about the attitude and approach not just of the England team currently in Australia but of cricketers in England generally. Do they, if one team dominates, just sit back and think "Well, they won't be this good forever"?
If that's the case then I don't honestly see the point in sending a team to the World Cup.
Complain about this postAt the last World Cup we were told that the side was being built for this coming World Cup. What a shambles. Four years wasted. Fletcher must go before the World Cup, what is to be achieved by keeping him?
Complain about this postPost 20. Phil Brisbane. So we ruined Australia Day for most Australians did we Phil? So it wasn't a complete waste of time then. This particular cloud did have a silver lining.
Complain about this postI think the time has come to stop ranting and raving. Yes we are all bitterly disappointed and embarrassed but we're not going to turn things around by ripping the players and management apart day after day. It's exactly what the Aussies want surely? It's one of the tools of their dominance to mentally grind down their opponents - not just to beat them - look at the number of Aussies who flock to this board to post "your the worst team ever" etc etc messages.
Complain about this postWhat we need to learn from this tour is creating the right mindset. However bad these performances are, we know that a lot of these guys can play decent cricket in the right frame of mind. Credit the Aussies for the way they reacted to 2005 and put it into practice. Yes - this tour is a write off but if we don't want the same next time we must stop this self-flagellation. Also - lets drop the vitriol (from both sides) on these boards - it's only a bl**dy game - not a war.
Fletcher and Flintoff are easy targets and I agree with comments posted. The real villainy in all this lies with anonymous freeloading ECB blazers and the Counties who effectively exercise joint control over the English game (whatever the ECB think).
I would like to see my home county heavily fined for their over-reliance on foreigners, but I don't suppose for one moment they will be.
The bungling selectors clearly need replacing completely. How can Read possibly be considered inferior to Jones and Nixon? The absence of Ramprakash, Shah, Batty et al should be properly accounted for.
Finally we have been badly let down by some sloppy journalism with too much fawning to the establishment in evidence and almost complete failure to identify or address the real problems.
Complain about this postThese comments should cease forthwith - nobody takes any notice.
England cricketers no longer deserve our attention and our time can be much better spent on other things.
Let them make their own way home from Australia because they are an utter load of sxxt!
Complain about this postBreaking News:
All the members of England Cricket Team are to be knighted again this year by queen for consistently loosing to aussies through out this season. Champagne and Beer to follow and Bus carrying players to be marched through central London. A public holiday to be declared by Tony Blair to commemorate our lad's extra-ordinary achievement.
God Save the Pomms!!!!
Complain about this postI think we would gain far more respect if we simply apologized, forfeited the last few games and came home.
There are massive problems with this test side masquarading as one day specialists.
It's time to split the county system up ala Rugby League/Union. Pro's can only qualify for their respective codes 'national team', the only exception would be the twenty 20 comp in the middle of the season which anyone could play in.
I can't beleive we are this bad but then we get worse.
Another idea I had was to simply turn the batting order on it's head, that way we get 4 pinch hitters to take the gloss off the ball during the powerplay (First 10 overs) and the batting line up gets stronger, also it would allow you to 'let' someone get out playing shots so KP could come in! They might get 20 runs in 5 balls like that if you give cart-blanche!
the crack pot entertainer.
Complain about this postWhat a depressing winter. I have just watched the highlights and was cringing with embarrasment at some of the shocking shots the 'batsmen' were getting themselves out to. Collingwood's had me going a particularly deep shade of red.
Complain about this postAs we are seriously lacking runs why don't we drop a bowler and play an extra batsmen? If Collingwood is as anxious to take on responsibility as Fletcher says, then lets give him responsibility for 10 overs per innings (backed up by Bell this should be possible). We could then play Bopara at 6, drop Flintoff to 7 and potentially have Read (Nixon's time is over, he's proved there is no space for a specialist sledger) coming at 9. It would at last give us some depth to the batting and ensure we could play Monty in every game.
Final rant: I just about buy Fletcher's excuse about Strauss & Colly being knackered (though surely they haven't actually spent enough time at the crease to get that tired?) so why on earth doesn't he just call up a couple more batsman from England. I would have Shah and Solanki shipped out immediately. The world cup is probably only 3 games away, lets get some fresh blood in and some pressure put on these massively underperorming regulars.
I got up this morning, 'I'll watch a hour of cricket before going to work' I thought, but no, I watched 5 minutes of cricket and then it was all over and then I had a little cry. I am utterly ashamed of our cricket team. We have some excellent players, the blame for them performing worse than I have ever seen them play must lie with the coach and the captain whose utter failure to motivate the team is criminal. I can not believe how wrong they seem to have got everything on this tour, selection, tactics even the itinerary seemed to have been cobbled together by someone who'd never seen a game of cricket in his life - I am so angry, words fail me...
Complain about this postLooking down from Scotland would it not be better for the psychological health of all my English cousins if the media stopped all filming, writing and sepaknig about this cricket tour and we could all live in peace. National sport is meant to entertain and I don't see anyone being even slightly entertained. Best to ignore itand you'll all feel better!
Complain about this postare those u-12s in post 7 still available?
Complain about this postI went to the match today and was extremely disappointed. It was CRAP - it didn't matter if you were English OR Australian. We love our sport here in Australia and were so looking forward to a good competition between the two teams and to enjoy a good game of cricket!
I mean - is it too much to expect a 'day/night' match to last long enough to at least turn the lights on?!!!
However, I am sure that all the England players accepted their match fees very easily, despite not earning them.....
I am annoyed because quite frankly, as much as it is nice for Australia to win (I am an Aussie supporter - but a huge CRICKET fan), it would be nice if England just put up a bit of a fight!!!! Don't you agree?!!! I don't know what the hell they are even bothering to practice and train for in between games. They just don't seem to be improving. What are they doing when they practice in the nets?
I think that the question needs to be asked - are England doing more harm to themselves than good?
I know that they don't have a choice but to continue playing, but I just think that they all look so completely beaten mentally that they really aren't bothering to turn up to play with the right mindset.
It's not that they are all rubbish players - they aren't. But it takes a lot more than good technique to be able to play against a team like Australia. England seem to have completely lost the heart and courage to carry on.
Some of you mention that they need a rest - but I really believe that this has nothing to do with England's poor form.
The rigours of international cricket are the same for EVERY team - endless touring, back to back games, away from home, new climates and places etc. It's the way it is - you either cope with it and get stuck into it, or you go home ('Mr Harmison, Mr Trescothik - your plane is boarding...').
It is tough - but they also get paid VERY nicely for it. There really is NO excuse.
I am sorry to keep bringing this up - but
I just think that the Eng team do not work well as a unit. There are too many players in the game for seemingly the wrong reasons - and because of this, when the pressure is on, they don't cope at all.
Bring back the honour of playing for your country, the hunger to fight and win well, and the joy of playing the game.... Then England might just begin to have some success.
Complain about this postWhy on earth are Plunkett, Tremlet, Nixon and Joyce even in contention for a world cup spot? Isn't it completely clear that they are not good enough to play international cricket? That's the problem with the one day side- too many average players and not enough specialists. Those such as Strauss and Bell are purely test players.
Complain about this postWe're lucky to be ranked 8th in ODIs. Bangladesh would be confident of beating us at the moment. Actually, with confidence this low, I'd back my village side to roll England over. Worth a try:
Foster for Nixon,
Complain about this postBopara for Strauss,
Alex Gidman for Collingwood.
Re:Post#78 At 11:20 AM on 26 Jan 2007, Ben Dubuisson wrote:
" It's hard to see where the next victory over Australia is going to come from. With Vaughan back we may scrape a win against a poor New Zealand, but even that is off little comfort. "
Complain about this postBen, brace yourself for disappointment.
I think you will only find New Zealand improving as this series goes on. They have most of their experienced players returning from injury.
There is actually a wealth of talent and experience in the N.Z. team currently.
My tip is Australia vs New Zealand for the finals.
Re Post#77 Stu wrote:
" Hmmm, I like the sound of a handicap for Australia, ... their batters must bat with the opposite hand to how they normally do. "
Complain about this postInterestingly, I remember when John Buchanan was coaching the Queensland team (before Australia)
he was encouraging players to practice batting, bowling, throwing with both hands
One of my friends told me: This England side will not win anything as they are OBE ( they have One Ball Extra)
Complain about this postGood grief!
Can anyone tell me how you get from 70-2 to 110 all out?
I know we're talking about England here (meaning disaster is inevitable at some stage) but that kind of performance gives the word "calamitous" new meaning.
Its got to the point where I'm looking through the BBC cricket pages for news of England's latest folly with a kind of macabre glee.
In all seriousness, send the lot of them back home, sack Fletcher immediately and send the England A side or an academy side out for the World Cup...they sure as hell couldn't do any worse than this miserable excuse for a cricket team.
Complain about this post"The one positive is that we’re still in the competition," said Andrew Flintoff afterwards.
Proof positive that Freddie has become as delusional as the rest of the team and coaching staff.
They might as well spend the rest of the tour on the beach and spare themselves any further humiliation.
Complain about this postI think england need to rest strauss and collingwood for possibly the rest of the series, hopefully then they may be in some sort of form to play in the wc. i would also get rid of loye and nixon who simply aren't good enough and get prior and read back in the side. I would also look to give the likes of bopara and broad a chance as it can't get any worse for england. Finally we need a captain as flintoff simply isn't up to it. we'd be better off giving someone like bell a chance rather than continuing as we are.
Complain about this postEngland cricket is now on the same level as our national rugby and football team, absolutely gutless.
Complain about this postWhat turns 'successful' players into a bunch of no-hopers?
What has Stuart Broad done wrong? I mean really - what has he done?
He was in the ODI team in the summer, and now despite the shocking results doesn't seem to be even being considered. And the guy can bat!
Consistency of selection?
Complain about this posti have long given up caring about one day cricket as england clearly don't know how to play it. they should just give up, go home, practice and come out rejuvenated for the summer's test series' which i am very much looking forward to.
Complain about this postI have been listening to all this drivel since November, 'Why was so and so picked', 'injured players', 'no preparation'. Why bother shouting about giving young players a go when your depth is nothing to shout about. They may seem like good players in your County comps, but they appear useless in the big time. The only player who has showed anything like world class skill on this tour, apart from the saffer, is Panasar. The rest are absolute rubbish.
Complain about this postAh well, The Ashes 2005 will become another Footy WC 1966, an anachronism we will still here the Poms bragging about for the next 40 years, another long time between drinks.
I have been following and writing about sport for a long time and cannot recall a precedent in any sport of England's fall from grace in international cricket. My theory is that the key event was the fifth day failure in the Adelaide Test match. I was at the ground and was stunned to see how all of the batsmen froze on a wicket and against an attack that they had dominated for the first two days of the match. I think that the fifth day failure traumatised the team so much that it was like a family bereavement from which it takes a very long time to recover. As things got worse in the next three Tests the mindset of the players was so disturbed that they have been almost in a trance state, and they are still in it. Success breeds success, and failure (in England’s case) sure does breed failure. But I still seek an example of a professional sports team that has so been traumatised that they have been absolutely unable to recover.
Ironically the structure of the ODI tournament in Australia is such that England could still win it! In the highly unlikely event that this happens they could then go on to win the World Cup. Why? Because if they do pull themselves together and have a success v Australia to celebrate then the momentum could carry the team on. The chances of this happening are miniscule – not hope springs eternal!
Complain about this postThe coach should resign or be removed.
Several of the 'experienced players' ought to consider their positions too. Or others should do the considering.
This is a professional job where these people are paid real money. The least they could do is appear to earn it.
Complain about this postThese last two matches in Adelaide has been without a doubt the most pathetic display of cricket that I have ever witnessed.
For a day-night match to be over before the lights are even turned on is an insult to supporters of England and all of those who paid to attend the match. No wonder the crowd jeered when Flintoff won the toss and decided to bat!
The fact that England has brought out a 36 year old wicket keeper on this tour says it all. Just like in the first test when Reed and Panesar were dropped from the team for two players who have not performed.
The majority of players on this tour (with the exception of Pietersen & perhaps Panesar) have looked completely disinterested in winning and putting in their best performance. If this is the case they should not be out there. There are plenty of people back in England who are at least committed to giving it their best effort.
It is a disgrace that half of this team were awarded OBEs and MBEs for winning two test matches against Australia in 2005 while McGrath was injured. The Australian team might not have MBEs or OBEs but at least they give it their best effort on the field which is more than anyone can say for England.
Complain about this postAt least with Scotland and Ireland taking part in this World Cup there is hope that a British team might win at least one match!
Complain about this postI want to cry , they where so bad that I think they should be giving the aussie crowd their money for mis selling , perhaps they could put out the Aus B team to give their A team a match.
Complain about this postHaving now reached depths unimaginable only a few months ago it is time for some serious analysis. As much as England have improved since those infamous scenes at the Oval in 1999, one big flaw has now become all to apparent to all that wish to see it. The so called bubble, a seemingly divine right to be part of team England. Resulting in underprepared players, an overload of back room staff, meaningless huddles before every session and pathetic glove-punching after almost every boundary. The sense of 'boy, are we good', the delusions of grandeur. The lack of competition for places. The nonsensical and hollow phrases after every defeat telling us what is required to improve but by no means showing the guts, the will, the pride and the fight to go out and actually turn those words into performances.
Adrian Cosijn
Complain about this postZeist
The Netherlands
Flintoff has captained us in 10 one-dayers, we have lost 9 of them. He captained us to a 5:0 Ashes whitewash.
When is he going to do the decent thing and fall on his sword. We all know he wants to be Freddie, England Captain. BUT he is not up to the job, simple as that.
Strauss did very well in the summer, and should not have been usurped in favour of Flintoff. But once Flintoff waged his media bid for the captaincy, the selectors were scared of upsetting him. What a baby. What an ego...
If I was as bad at my job as Flintoff is at his, I would lose it. Same should be true for our joke of a leader.
Complain about this postWell, what can I say? Good summary I feel. England, however, have been far from good, and perhaps I'm wrong, but I can see clear reasons why. I just think that young players are rushed into the England set up too early, and all the England players don't play enough county cricket, because they're off with England. Sajid Mahmood, a genuine prospect for English Bowling a year ago, has been ruined. He was coming through so well, and could have been a great England Bowler, but was rushed into the scene, had a decent debut, and is now not good enough. He doesn't play enough cricket. The same goes for Liam Plunkett. What has he done this tour? Nothing! He's also been ruined. Anderson is an example of this. The more he's bowled the better he's got. Match pratice is what all of the youngsters need, so, give the youngsters and academy players a run-oout in the final three games. WE may make the final, yes, but that can only be seen as a positive, as it'll just be another game to give the youngsters ago. The keeping situation is a joke. Jones never scored, Read never scores. Nixon is rubbish behind the stumps aswell as with the bat-at least the other two were high-class behins the stumps. What's wrong with Matt Prior?? He made runs! Put him back in I say-no question!!! Flintoff should never have been made captain. His responsibility was already huge, having to lead batting and bowling for England. Captaincy? Never. That's a joke. Keep Loye out there, keep Panesar out there, and possibly Dalrymple too, but forget the others-please. Just for these last three games. I don't even know if that's possible, but if it is, take Prior, and some other youngsters from the Academy and put them in. Yes, keep going with PLunkett and Tremlett. Tell them all they've got at least three games to show what they're worth. Maybe then. they'll have a little bit of confidence, and assurance tht they're being given a nice little run in the team, without worrying their place will be under threat if they perform badly. Bring back Saj and give him some cricket for these final games. Put in Prior, Bopara, Shah, Solanki. Prior, Shah and Solanki have all madr runs for England in this format of cricket, and it's just crazy that they're not involved! We need to sort this out, quick, and I totally agree that they've lost the will to play cricket. They're losing sight of what cricket is-a competitive sport that you play because you enjoy it. None of them are enjoying it. They all seem that when they come out to bat, they can't wait to get back to the dressing room. It's pathetic that at 70-2 after 15 overs, we didn't go on. We didn't even have to do anything stupid. We could of played normal cricket shots like in a test game, and just batted the 50 overs. So what if we'd of had a poor run rate, and maybe only made 180, 190. At least that's a better total, and we're showing we can actually play cricket. And why are poeple who perform well at county level overlooked for these guys who underperform?? Look at Mark Ramprakash. A veteran, who averaged over a 100 in 17 games last year. That is incredible. Even more incredible that he's not even considered. We need to be more realistic in preparation and selection, and realise that the youngsters need to play cricket, and the older guys need to prove they can actually do it. Not thinking tht they're places are assured even when they consitently underperform, like today. Absolutely rediculous.
Complain about this postWe have known for a long time that our one day team is nowhere near the standard of the test team, although judging by the Ashes series, the two are not as far apart as I originally thought!
The improvements that need to be made will take a long time and we cannot expect everything to be all rosy overnight.
It has been a long and hard tour for England and confidence plays a huge part of the game. Unfortunately they are playing a phenomonal Australian team who have such strength in depth, they could probably beat most teams with their second XI!
I don't think sacking the coach is the answer, although the coach's overall role should perhaps be reviewed for the future.
Freddie isn't captain material at the moment, but the second option of Andrew Strauss could be even worse judging by his current form (but it may have a reverse affect and improve him by taking on the extra responsibility).
I also think it is hard when you see the big differences in the bowling line ups from the test team to the one day. The likes of Lewis, Plunkett, Tremlett and to a degree, even Anderson would not get a regular look in when the Test XI is selected, but are playing regular One day cricket.
I think we need to see more of the two squads integrated. By working more together on both forms of the game they would grow as a unit and perhaps the good team spirit would return, having agood impact on us.
We miss a true world class bowling coach - and that is not meant to be detremental to Kevin Shine. Looking at Troy Cooley's record with Harmison, Jones, Hoggard and Flintoff, he managed to turn good bowlers into World class performers, who you felt would always put the opposition under the cosh.
Complain about this postFirstly Duncan Fletcher needsto stop apologising and RESIGN now. At the very least stop the limited over participation, he should really fall on his sword, to loud cheers from back home.
Secondly Freddie the unprepared is a disasterous captain and should stand down. The minute he is captain we start to fail. He has no acumen for picking the right team.
Also the whole team is not fit enough and mentally strong enough.
I would like to see no further media coverage of this and tes they should return their gongs.
Complain about this postA normal cricket fan - you may be a very loyal Somerset fan, but Blackwell is NOWHERE near the talent of Symonds or Lehmann. Not in the same solar system. What Blackwell can do to a county seconds attack, Symonds can do to an international attack. Suggesting obviously inadequate replacements isn't the answer.
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Complain about this postCollingwood should be dropped for God sake. Nixon, well he was supposed to be decent batsman, what the heck he is doing out there? I think the selection doesn't seem to be on basis of performance, I have no clue how people in ECB are selecting players. Truly shambolic performance.
The poor effort by the England team in Australia can not be due only to lack of ability. We all know that these players have been capable of much better efforts in the past. There must be something else at work here also, and I'd guess that "something else" is poor coaching, training and preparation.
The Australian team does a lot of work away from the cameras to come out and play as well as they do
Complain about this postand are assisted by a great support staff.
Has there ever been an occasion when the Queen has asked for medals back? Perhaps it is time to create a pecedent. I am working with Aussies and it has got past the stage where they bother to take the urine.
Complain about this postAren't Canada, Scotland & Kenya playing a tri-series somewhere. I think we might jsut be able to give them a game (obviously, we'd still lose) but we might at hang around long enough for the lights to be turned on!
we are terrifyingly bad. I'm glad i din't spend the £4000 on tickets, flights & hotel to the caribbean.
Complain about this postThe England football team would be playing better cricket at the moment.
Complain about this postMBE? It must stand for Miserably Beaten Englishman...
Complain about this postunless the inept coach . poor management and central contracts are dumped the is no chance
Complain about this postof england achieving anything .
there seems to be no pride to play for your country ,only money, but because of the contract
system the chosen few can fail as many times as they like and still play/
Here's a question to ponder...
Just what is England's selection policy ?
The batting "line-up" is an absolute shambles because the selectors keep chopping & changing.
Just face the fact that whoever is selected will struggle against a top-class Australian team.
(The N.Z. bowling attack is also top-class)
Pick a bunch of batsmen that you know have talent and then tell them that you are going to stick with them right through this series and through the World Cup as well.
Complain about this postGive them time to get some form and to perhaps get to know one another and get a bit of team spirit going.
Just stop the continual changes!
Have tried to get over my winter of cricket disappointment by watching the SA v PAK test series, it's been a great contest (as was the SA v IND series) so restored my faith in the sport.....there's a few teams out there who'll give the Aussies a fight in the WC!
As for Adelaide...words from a fabled telegram from an Amercian commander during Mexican war spring to mind for some reason:
"send guns, money and lawyers, the ***t has hit the fan!"
Amen
Complain about this postPhil (Post 64)
1: I'm Australian and trying to discuss why England struggle in general in ODIs. Obviously the Aussie team is beating them because they are so much better, esp playing here. No selection policy will change that. But there must be more players in the English system that are better credentialled to play in the ODI form of the game, rather than playing pretty much the test team. And it is obvious that they would be a better team with a few of the missing players - but still wouldn't be good enough to compete effectively with us.
2: Australian selection policies. Katich isn't playing because he isn't good enough. Not controvesy there. Watson shouldn't be in the national team - even when fit. At least the selectors finally played Hogg and hopeful the White experiment is out the door 'til after the World Cup. And even after that, leave White in domestic cricket.
3: I did mention that the English ODI team was poor to begin with and would expect them to go out after participating in the 1st rd of the World Cup.
4: As I mentioned being Australian, so as you can probably tell I am not embarassed by my team's performance although some of our selections are dodgy (see above). Also, I (and my country) didn't send any undesirables to my own country 200 years ago, And why would I want to be sending the English team to exile in Australia? So you can well and truly take your foot out of your mouth now. Just a hint - when trying to abuse someone make sure you get your facts right or you end up looking like a "dill" yourself.
Complain about this postThe england team are totally shell shocked at the moment and the batsman need to take a step back and remember the basics. Grind out an innings or to and get some runs on the board. The basic problems are that some of the guys have had their techniques torn into by the aussies, whereas some, like Flintoff only seem to play when the rest of the team is performing. All well and good when we used to have solid performers like Trescothic but not now when we are relying on youngsters.
Some changes are required for the world cup with some experience brought back in (Gough, Read and Solanki). My team would be:
Strauss
Vaughan
Solanki
Pieterson
Collingwood
Flintoff
Read
Gough
Lewis
Tremlett
Panesar
I would even consider dropping Strauss down to three with Solanki and Vaughan opening. Others in the 16 man squad would be Dalrymple, Loye, Anderson, Giles and Broad.
Complain about this postRe: Post#7 QEH year 7 wrote:
" We are in a libary lesson with Mr Ryan and we are learning computer skills. We have some very good cricketers in the under 12's if they need some new players. "
Dear QEH year 7.
Obviously English cricket is in quite a bad state at the moment. The way I see it, you have a couple of options.
1. Get out and practice your cricket. England will need you in the 2013 Ashes series after Australia beat you in 2007, 2009 and 2011.
2. Ignore cricket and go play soccer (there's more money in it). Australia will continue to win cricket forever and ever...
3. Study hard and get a good career with computers and try to ignore the cricket.
Okay, now stop skiving off and get back to study!
:-)
(wish my teacher let me play on the 'net at school)
Complain about this postEngland are already on the plane home. They all need a break and then a regroup, you can't play yourself into form against Australia. Why not rest the whole team send out the under 21's or a county side for the last 3 games? The sooner we have regional [x4] cricket the better, the county system will not give us a world class team with sufficient back up for long tours.
Complain about this postI woke up to see the replay starting on sky sports. There is so much wrong with this setup its not funny anymore. The most valuable player in the team is KP who plied his trade in south africa, not england. The attitude and desire just is not there. As an aussie I said 3 months before the 2005 ashes that england were going to win as they had built their confidence and learnt that winning feeling and built success on success. This time round the prediction was with the aussies, especially after the over the top celebrations. England need a new team, start from scratch, build confidence an learn what it feels like to win, it'll take a few years but it can be done. In conjunction develop the county game so that there is real depth, just like football there are too many foreigners in the system and whilst they and the money men rule the game england will not perform at the top level on a consistent basis, blips as in the ashes yes, but not consistently. Look at the depth in teh australian squad, look at the system of cricket there, look at how long they have played at the top level for continuously. Look, listen and learn, for all our sakes. The embarassment has to stop.
Complain about this postFlintoff is not a good captain, they should try someone else. Anyone else.
Complain about this postAnother woeful performance and surely the low point of an already embarrassing tour. Tiredness is not a valid excuse - these guys are professional sportsmen... it's their lack of application and technique at fault, which must be a product of the domestic set-up, team coaching and management. However, foremost responsibility lays with the players who must take a long hard look at themselves and answer 1 question... are they worthy? They seem to have given up, which is totally unacceptable for a sportsman representing their country.
Complain about this postA ten-year-old boy is attending his custody hearing. The magistrate listens to the submissions from each parent’s lawyer and then asks the child if he would like to reside with his mother.
“No,” replies the boy, “she beats me.”
“Oh,” says the magistrate. “Then you will have to stay with your father.”
“No thanks,” answers the boy, shaking his head, “he beats me, too.”
“Good heavens!” exclaims the magistrate. “What about your grandparents, then?”
With tears in his eyes, the boy looks down and mumbles, “They beat me as well.”
Shocked, the magistrate asks, “Is there anyone you could stay with who won’t beat you?”
“Yes,” says the boy. “The England cricket team – they can’t beat anyone!”
Complain about this postAs I've said before, after the 20/20 infact, having England continue on a tour which effectively ended on day 5 in Adelaide, is cruel. It is akin to a boxer being knocked out cold, being roused by bucket of cold water, propped up against the ropes and letting his opponent tee off at will. Mentally England folded long ago and must be counting the days before they can get on the long flight home.
For the Australian team this tour has been about re-establishing dominance over England. For approx. 15 years Australia had England beat before they took the field which promptly ended when McGrath stepped on the cricket ball at Edgbaston. This is why in the past Australian teams have lost motivation as the series progressed, allowing England to become more competitiveand win dead rubbers, whereas this time around the 4th and 5th tests were more to do with 2009 than the present tour. The win in 2005, wonderful though it was, was the cricket equivalent of stirring the hornet's nest.
Buchanan stated publicly before the one day tournament started that it was his hope that Australia would leave England and New Zealand in dissarray to effectively end their World Cup ambitions. Due to that, and the fact that most of the Australian team are fighting for the places in the World Cup, I wouldn't expect any mercy from the Aussies in this tourament.
If the present English team looks inferior to the English teams of the last 15 years to tour Australia it might be more to do with the present Australian mindset than any actual decline in English cricket.
Complain about this postI HAVE UTTER CONTEMPT FOR ENGLISH CRICKET and upmost admiration for Australia. I'm not an Aussie, but every time England play- I'm desperate to see them loose and loose as humiliatingly as possible.
There are three reasons, why I think England should be humiliated on a cricket field:
The following is for Ex-players in the commentary box of Sky, Jonathan Agnew and CO of TMS, and more importantly Duncan Fletcher and his ludicrous “lads” in the dressing room.
Condescending approach to test cricket : Every time they play test series with a team other than Australia, they play it like it’s a practice session to the next Ashes series. They have no regard for International teams, who in fact are astronomically more committed and talented than most players in the English team. Zero professionalism. They feel as if they own test cricket.
No respect for one-day cricket: Their least self-effacing attitude toward one day cricket is ludicrous. They think somehow one day cricket is less elitist, less royal and almost below their league, as if they are commanders of test cricket, least interested in the “less royal” one day format - a 5-0 thumping in the Ashes series was a fitting outcome for this pitiful side.
Over-Hyped players: Steve Harmison is the best example of the over-hype average to mediocre to below par players in England receive. Harmison is a decent player, but one season performance all of a sudden he is as good if not better than Curtly Ambrose. What a joke? Bowlers like Nitini are most under rated, despite a committed performance day-in and day-in out, while Harmison- so far a flash in the pan- England look at him has a pseudo-god of fast bowling. Giles, Bell, Collingwood, are rated more than they deserve, and Ed Joyce, Mal Loye, and other newcomers are over-hyped before any impressive performances. For a nation which created cricket, their self-estimations flirt from flattery to preposterous.
I think Freddie, Monty and KP (not in the field) give 100%, rest is all bonkers.
I’m looking forward for their encounter with Kenya in the group stage, I want to see Kenya defeat England and eliminate them from qualifying to the next round.
Complain about this postAbsolute rubbish and time for England to play the players who are actually good at one-day cricket rather than the same old people.
I'd say
Loye (long overdue that he got in the side)
Prior (why everyone rates Read is beyond me, what has he done?)
Vaughan (still a great captain)
Pietersen
Bopara
Flintoff (never let our best player be captain again, it always spoils them)
Gidman
Dalrymple
Hoggard
Lewis
Panesar
batting all the way down and 8 different bowling options.
Also how about, Yardy, Maddy, Benning and Maschrenas?!?!
Complain about this postwell england should take new and young players in the side u cant take any at age 34 like loye.
Complain about this postjust give the younster bloosam in international lever main be they loose but it will be good for england future.
One positive outcome from this tour - it's driven me to drink.
Complain about this postLook, we are obviously being outplayed here by the best team in the world. You imagine being in the English dressing room, it can't be easy and the belief that we can beat these fella's has gone.
I think we have got the balance of the side right. By playing Monty in both the tests and the ODI's we can afford to play an extra batter with a fully fit flintoff batting 6 (or 7 in the tests).
We still have question marks over the keeper. Nixon is clearly not the answer and is averaging under 10 batting number 7. We might need to throw the chance to Read in the final one dayers - who can't do any worse! I believe we need to revert back to Matt Prior. Early 20's, can pinch hit in the one dayers and bat at 6 or 7 in the tests. Look at the stats on cric-info, what's the problem?
Lets get behind our lads, get the basics right and move on. We can't change what has gone, we have just got to learn from it.
Complain about this postI haven't read every single one of these comments, but has anybody questioned why we need to always play ODIs after/before a Test Series ?
Complain about this postSurely it would be better to split them up, so that the players can have a break in between and we don't have to keep playing the same teams for 3 months at a time.
We could then have separate coaches, selectors and players.
Let's just keep everything fresh and get the best out of everybody, because we're really not as bad as recent results suggest. Just tired.
Fletcher has looked clueless from day one of the tour and should have the courage to resign now. Saying he has the confidence of the players is irrelevant - he does not have the confidence of the cricket-supporting public. We cannot continue to stagger from one humiliating defeat to another on the vague premise of "waiting until after the World Cup and having a look at things then". Doing nothing is no longer an option.
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