England flop with pressure on Flintoff
England produced an embarrassing batting performance in Adelaide to hand New Zealand the initiative in the limp to join Australia in the one-day series final.
The margin of New Zealand’s victory gave them a valuable bonus point and, with Australia looking impregnable, England may need to beat New Zealand twice to go through.
Both sides came into the match short of runs and it showed. The difference was that New Zealand were prepared to be patient.
England’s middle order succumbed to a range of rash shots after James Franklin had bowled a fine spell with the new ball.
Too much, of course, rests on Andrew Flintoff. He bowled magnificently – fast and miserly – but such is the fragility of England’s line-up that once again the onus was on him with the bat.
He came in a similar position to the one that faced him against the same opponent in Hobart a week ago.
There he dealt with the demands of the situation superbly. This time, his wild swipe at the cunning Daniel Vettori drained the life from England’s faltering run chase.
With Michael Vaughan injured, Andrew Strauss was the other alternative to Flintoff as captain. But is he certain of his place in the one-day team?
He looks as if he has lead in his bat at present. Three months of losing and low scores in Australia are bound to have an effect.
He is facing his sternest test since his arrival in the side nearly three years ago.
The options available to England though are not vast. Vaughan is expected to be fit next week. Ravi Bopara, meanwhile, is waiting for his first chance.
For those seeking crumbs, there was qualified encouragement in the performance of Ed Joyce.
It was his first convincing innings at this level after five failures. He had the chance to shine far brighter than his colleagues, only to fall to a puzzling restrained chip to long on.
The pitch was dry and two-paced. For the batsman to profit, the bowling had to be wayward or the batsman powerful.
So Jacob Oram’s return from a hamstring injury was timely for New Zealand. The giant all-rounder does not do elegance, but thanks to his long levers he can be hard to contain once he is set.
His stand with Brendon McCullum was painstakingly patient at the start, but the benefits of two batsmen giving themselves time to establish themselves were obvious - 89 came from the last 11 overs.
Oram’s assault after reaching 50 ultimately decided the match.
Fletcher is woeful. Poor instructions to the team once again, with his 'favourites' failing again.
Can someone please explain to me why on earth Nixon is playing? Read for me everytime, he's a better 'keeper and batsmen.
Fletcher, it's clearly time you found another day job.
Complain about this postWhat, no "England Spirit Shakes NZ"?? No super-confident holding up of the ball by Anderson? No "Mal Loye is God"??
Welcome back to reality Mr. Mann.
Complain about this postEmbarrasing is all you can say to many players not fit for 1 day cricket in the team. Strauss never a 1 day player Ian Bell and Paul Collingwood slow batting is a concern. It is time to pick players what can play
Complain about this postWhy are England so bad in the ODI's?
I think there are a number of reasons:
1) Lack of consistency in the selection.
2) Lack of belief by the players.
3) Tactics defy belief at times.
These all add up to the cause.
But for me 99.99% of the problem is Duncan Fletcher.
I think he should go now, before the World Cup.
Hopefully he's reading this now, so I;ll say to him: Stop having your favourite players. Stop being narrow minded and thinking that you need to have attitude before you pick some one to play. Pick the best wicket keeper as Jones and Nixon are not world class batsman. Start trying to sort things out NOW!
Complain about this postShould Strauss be in the ODI team, full stop? Even before now his form in ODIs was indifferent.
Personally I'd drop him for the next match, move Bell up to open and see what Bopara can do at 3.
Can anyone suggest alternative top-order batsmen for the England ODI side in future? Can Ali Cook adjust his game and score quickly in ODIs, or is he just like Vaughan, Strauss and Nass, who were all poor in ODIs?
Complain about this postNo mention of Nixon despite repeated poor performences. Even at his absolute worst during his latest spell (inc. Champions Trophy) Chris Read averaged 12 in ODIs. Nixon is averaging 7, not to mention more byes/wides conceded than gojo and read together throughout the Ashes. Surely a motormouth isn't the main qualification for a wk? England are half way through the series so unless Nixon is going to be the WC wk (which seems ridiculous) then I think they need to changes things there
Complain about this postA disappointing performance, because England seem to be steadily improving with the ball yet are going backwards with the bat if that's possible. I still think England have a reasonable shout of making the finals because New Zealand aren't much better, but in truth perhaps not getting pummeled again by the Aussies in the finals would be a decent outcome.
Complain about this postIt is noteworthy that during Duncan Fletcher's time as coach the only time that England has done well is when Michael Vaughan has been in the side as captain.
Complain about this postPerhaps he should be given more credit for the Ashes win in 2005 and Duncan Fletcher less.
It is grim, but Flintoff, the derided Flintoff, is the only player who has shown with either bat or ball anything approaching world class in this ODI series. Andrew Strauss seems to have had the 'go off form when made captain' thing before he's been made captain. Jimmy Anderson's bowling has improved, but his death bowling today was suspect. How many did the last over go for? The England players need to look at themselves very hard. Collingwood, ostensibly excellent for the OD game, reduced to ten mind-numbing runs. Bell, getting out too easily again. These are good players. I don't believe the team needs shaking up any more, but these players need to remind themselves why they were in the side in the first place.
Complain about this postTime for England's cricketers to do some "expectation management", methinks?!
Complain about this postThey keep losing and then saying they are keeping positive and are really 'up' for the next game, etc.........and then they play badly and lose heavily again. Instead of being depressed optimists, they should become cheerful pessimists........tell everyone not to expect miracles, go into matches without the burden of expectation, and the match shouldn't be as bad as they fear?! They might even WIN a match!?!
England are a disgrace to the Nation. These players should not be paid for their inept performances. They talk a good game but when it comes to the actual game either the bowling or batting lets them down.. They should forget about the World Cup, come home and train hard to produce a decent side which one could be proud of.
Complain about this post1man doesnt make a team about time they found some batsmen
Complain about this postNot sure where the ECB document that proposed England would be the best team in both forms of the game by 2007, now is. It would make hugely funny reading these days.
Complain about this postOnce again, the bowling is ok and the batting woeful. Flethcher has no clue.
Complain about this postDear Simon Mann "England spirit shakes Aussies" but New Zealand not stirred!!! (they did have Mr. Bond, Shane Bond)
Complain about this postVery sad. Sure, the guys are trying, as Flintoff said, but how on earth can they fail so miserably to chase down a low score on what was not a bad pitch? England's inability to rotate the strike meant they were behind the pace almost from the off, and with Flintoff yet again being asked to shoulder the burden, like the superhuman being he can never be, we were doomed to failure once Strauss, Bell and Collingwod had failed yet again with the bat.
Fair play to the Kiwis, they bowled and fielded really well, but there is no way they should have skittled us on that pitch. Surely there is a half way between blocking everything just trying to stay in, or trying to belt the cover off the ball. I've never been any great shakes with the bat but even I know how to push the ball into a gap and scamper a few quick singles to keep the score moving.
How low can these guys get? You can see it in their eyes that they are all totally demotivated now. At least they will be home soon once they fail to qualify for the 'finals' of this mini tournament. Maybe the ECB should save the air fares and hotel bills in the Windies and pull out of the world cup now?
I've been an England supporter for 30 years and can't remember us batting worse than we are at the moment; and there have been some pretty low points in those 30 years I can tell you!
Fletch has certainly acheived some great things with England over the last few years (remember '94 and '95?) but maybe he has run his useful course now and should bow out before he is remembered for the wrong reasons.
Gonna get back to work now, it's got to be better than worrying about this nonsense.
Complain about this postOnce more we pluck defeat from the jaws of victory. What is the matter with this England team. I think it about time we stop living off the great 2005 ashes win and give Bob Woolmer a go at changing things. He's done a great job with Pakistan and after all he is English.
Complain about this postWhat exactly does Bell offer to this team? Also why is Dalrymple getting a game, he's not being bowled and is a poor no. 8. Drop him for a batsman now.
Complain about this postGiven that the World Cup is a matter of weeks away, I am not convinced that wholesale changes at this stage would improve our chances of success. My analysis of each player is thus :-
Strauss - OK, in form slump but would expect him to recover. Best we have available
Loye - Will always be hit & miss. May need to compete with Bell if Vaughan available. If he is now a serious contender, why didn't he play in some of the matches that Solanki figured in ?
Vaughan - Certainty if fit despite his moderate record. One of the few players with real class
Bell - Not sure. Has the ability to bat at low risk & be consistent. Not convinced that he is able to cope with the pressure of a run chase
Peterson - Key player
Collingwood - For a "finisher" he seldom wins matches for England with the bat. Useful bowler, great fielder so ink him in
Flintoff - Key player
Joyce - Not seen enough of him - batted ok today, should have made sure he was there at the end
Nixon - Why of why - please allow him to finish his county career with dignity - not good enough at either discipline, pure and simple
Read - Everyone else seems to have a bag of chances except Read. Not sure what he's done wrong. I remember him playing a key role with the bat in a couple of one day victories, he is able to go "big". If the criticism is that he can't deal with pressure, just look at the others in both forms of the game
Darylmpole - not good enough as a sole spinner but useful on slow low wickets - limited with the bat but still capable
Lewis - At least he knows what h's doing with the ball. Performed pretty well so far
Anderson - Likely to be expensive but also capable of taking wickets - stick with him
Panasaar - Key player
Mamood - Sorry, too erratic
The other player worthy od seslection is probably our best bowler - remember Hoggard ! On the batting front, perhaps Shah would be the best bet of those in consideration.
I have been very supportive of the role Duncan Fletcher has played in our Test revival (before the Ashes I have to say) but in one day cricket we have stumbled from crisis to crisis and don't appear to have implemented any clear strategy leading to the world cup, so the mess we have is what we deserve. In Duncan's defence, we have invariably been without key players such as Flintoff, Harmison, Vaughan, Trescothick, Peterson as they have been protected with Test Cricket in mind.
I really wish I could be more confident about our Worl Cup chances. I fear more of the same as we seem incapable of knocking off moderate scores, and when the heat is on, our bowlers tend to disintegrate. Clear demonstration that we don't have the mental tougness to deliver under pressure, and that might be the key reason for our abject performances.
Complain about this postThe ineptitude of the England one day team has to be summed up in the shot Jamie Dalrymple played to get out. Vettori bowls a half volley and instead of getting a good stride in and hitting through the line, Dalrymple checks his foot movement and puts a quarter stride in, nowhere near the pitch and only edging to slip. To think he is first choice over Panesar is laughable.
Complain about this postShould England not be playing two Irishmen?
Peter from Belfast
Complain about this postReply to James
Yes plenty of alternatives, but we do not pick them! Drop Strauss, Bell, and Joyce, for starters. Try this line up:
Maddy (best one day batsman in the country)
Loye (give him a run in the side)
Ramprakash (best batsman in the country -still)
Benning(great prospect)
Flintoff
Collingwood (for his fielding alone)
Jon Batty (best keeper/batsman in the country)
Broad
Anderson (at last on form)
Panesar
Lewis
Surely this team is better than the current lot? May be short on international experience but
they bat down to number 8, have 4 seamers/quicks, a spinner, and three dibbly dobbers in Colingwood, Maddy and Benning.
If you can't get Ramps then I would use Key, or a fit again Trescothick. All this talent and I still can't fit in one day world record holder Alistair Brown!
Complain about this postYou guys may as well pack up and go home - or at least enjoy the OZ sunshine on the beach before coming back to gloomy england as the team would get more use out of a tan than getting dicked again by the aussies and us.
Don't underestimate the black caps, we have a knack of beating the aussies when they least expect it (when we chased 323 and 332 to win last year) or at least give them a decent run for their money
Let us have a crack at it - you've already tried and failed miserably.
Complain about this postWho is putting their hands up to being an English selector after this tour?
Complain about this postWhere are James Foster and Vikram Solanki, surely they should feature in this team??
Mal Loye has to open as he has the unorthodox approach needed for exploiting the power plays.
Complain about this postTo those questioning Nixon's inclusion, this is in fact one of the few things Fletcher has got right in the last 6 months. A motormouth, a leader and someone with real guts is what was required behind the stumps. Of course he isn't as good as Read as a keeper, but who is? His consistent ability to win one-day and T20 games for Leicestershire with innovation, no lack of skill and sheer willpower, mark him down as having the qualities this England team lacks.
I am a big fan of Read and want him in the Test side, but England's timid one-day displays are reflective of the side's psyche. The likes of McCullum, Boucher, Sangakkara and Dhoni are the aggressive, prickly characters you need in one-day cricket when every shot is a pressure shot. Nixon adds that to the side.
It's not his fault that the selectors continue to pick the wrong batsmen and those in the side continue to bat like amateurs.
Complain about this postEngland need someone at the top of the order to get them off to a flying start, Strauss looks poor and Ian Bell is not what I consider an explosive one day batsmen, I think they should call in Matt Prior to open with Mal Loye, England have nothing to lose now, get Strauss and Bell out the side before they are mentally scarred forever by this most terrible of tours!!
Complain about this postAnother poor batting display surely Read should get his place back and Bopara should be given a chance instead of Dalrymple. With Vaughan likely to be fit for Fridays game is Strauss likely to be dropped?
Complain about this postWhat on earth is the thinking about playing Nixon? At age 36 the only possible reason for playing him would be if he was a big hitter that England hoped would fire in the World Cup. He isn't a big hitter, he is a nudger, reverse sweeper who is averaging less than Read. Read's confidence must be badly dented despite keeping superbly in the Tests SURELY they couldn"t try another keeper for the World Cup or is Fletch planning to bring back Jones!
Complain about this postI'm a great fan of Freddie but found the decision to make him captain for this one-day series very strange given what happened in the tests.
The decision to include Paul Nixon was never going to be very forward looking and thus far is looking very foolish. How much better to look to the future, if you want a keeper that can bat Steven Davies should be given a chance.
Complain about this postto me, a missive problem has been the style of our dismissals allthe way through - Englands batsmen seem to repeatedly be getting out to wishy-washy shots to innocuous deliveries.
if you watch the australian batsmen, this happens so infrequently - they're either out flashing wildly, or it takes a very good ball to get them out.
Pietersen seems to take the same attitude, and has been our standout player for a while now.
While we're happy to play gentle pushes at average line and length deliveries, any kind of minor technical frailty will allways be exposed, whereas even if a player is out of form, the phrase "if you're going to flash, flash hard" is to me significant, as the gentle catching practice we seem to be offering the slip cordon suddenly becomes less likely to balloon straight into the bread basket, and could even create quick runs either through or over the cordon.
How many times do we see the aussie batsmen intermingle some great shots with some horrible mistimed lob over the infield? how many times did Oram do just this today? take the risks, and you'll be rewarded.
Complain about this postOne simple question : What the hell is Paul Nixon doing in this team ?
Complain about this postcompareing never match ...andy= fleming 50x50...xon=maculm=10x90....shane bone=anderson70x30...franklin=lewis70x30 ...vettori=monty=80x20...oram=dalmy80x20...and all other both team guys are equel so you must found the diiference where the english sinks
Complain about this postExpectation management needed I think. People keep saying that if only this team was picked, if only that team were picked, everything would be OK.
Where is the slightest shred of evidence that there are 11 England qualified players good enough to play at the highest level. The answer is...there isn't any. There are precisely 2; Flintoff, and Pieterson. The rest are either unproven, unfit, or not good enough and never were.
And there is nowhere to hide....not by searching all the county grounds in this fair land will you find players good enough to compete at the highest level....unless...Stuart Law could be tempted??
Complain about this postJust goes to prove England will never be an all round team until we find a skippeer and a so called coach (come to think of it why do we need a coach?) with bottle who can lead a team with desire and commitment and ruthlessness like the 70's & 80's, ie beefy & co.If they lose dock there wages, just as this team deserve.
Complain about this postcan't understand all these talk about strauss to be droped. well, yes he is not playing all that good in this series, but still his avrage in ODIs is more than 34. lets not forget that he has been at wrong end of many calls in this tour. well then, there is a question mark over collingwood. after his 206, he is really struggling. may be they can play bopara in his place next time. when vaughan come back he might have to give way.
Complain about this postIt is about time Flintoff stuck to what he is good at and that is being one of if not the best allrounder in the world of cricket and leave the captaincy to others whose dependancy on performing is not as critical. Come on Freddie wise up and let someone else take the strain, believe me when you take on that little extra it takes its toll elsewhere. Do not listen to your heart listen to your head. We cannot always blame the management as they are not out on the pitch and they do not become useless overnight, we were cheering them in 2005 now we are slamming them. Its the same in football fire the manager when maybe it is the players that need shooting.
Complain about this postThe selection of Paul Nixon sums up the woeful planning and selection of the England one day team since the last World Cup. If Nixon was even being considered for the World Cup he should have been in India and Pakistan last winter along with the likes of Mal Loye, Monty Panesar and Jon Lewis. Instead we had the likes of Vikram Solanki, Steve Harmison, and Geriant Jones getting experience when all three will play no part in the competition. There has been no consistency in selection - why was Stuart Broad called up against Pakistan last summer only to now be behind Liam Plunkett and Saj Mahmood. Jon Lewis wasn't selected against Sri Lanka last summer but Kabir Ali and Tim Bresnan were. Why did Shaun Udal play in a one day international last winter? Going back even further why was Anthony McGrath picked ahead of Ian Bell for the 2004 Natwest Series? Why isn't Glen Chapple in the current squad. He would surely be a better all round bet in the World Cup than Mahmood or Plunkett. Justin Langer could hardly get a one day game for Australia in his entire career yet Ian Bell, Andrew Strauss, and Paul Collingwood are reward for mediocrity by being permenant one day selections for England. There have been a host of crass selection decisions. If Englands World Cup planning was a business project then Duncan Fletcher would be out of a job and sued by the company. Todays result was probably the worst of the winter. My World Cup squad would be:
1.P.Collingwood (c)
Complain about this post2.K.Pietersen (vc)
3.I.Bell
4.M.Loye
5.J.Benning
6.R.Bopara
7.A.Flintoff
8.J.Foster
9.M.Prior
10.G.Chapple
11.J.Dalrymple
12.J.Anderson
13.J.Lewis
14.S.Broad
15.M.Panesar
A question for the experts - which is the worst England sports team ever to have gone abroad (no personal opinions, only results) ? It won't help the matter at all but I'd be interested to know if my current slough of despondency is well founded or just part of a general midlife crisis.
Complain about this postThe team are shellshocked from the devastation of the ashes demolition and Graveneny and Fletcher are reading it totally wrong in expecting the vast majority to be in the right frame of mind to pick up the pieces. WE HAVE PLAYERS OUT THERE AND AT THE ACADEMY WHO COULD HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB IN THE ONE DAYERS AND GAINED VALUABLE EXPERIENCE FOR THE FUTURE. WAKE UP OR GET OUT I SAY
Complain about this postYour boys might as well go home, give it up!
Complain about this postRemember this: No matter how hard you try, you cannot polish a turd!
Why do people have such a fascination with Read. If Nixon scored 10 in total for the remainder of the series, his presence and energy alone make him the right pick over Read.
Read is unfrotunately mentally weak, it is a fact that has been proven on countless occasions and is obvious to those in the know. That is why Nixon is picked, that is why Jones was picked ahead of him and that is why Read must be cast away.
OK Nixon may not be the future, but he is more likely to come good this Spring than Read.
As for the rest of them, Strauss has the class to come good, Loye is the right man at the top, Belly needs to attack, Colly needs to drop down the order and Fred needs to pretend he is his backyard playing.
KP back for the WC makes a big difference of course and maybe banger too (not sure about that), with Vaughany fit again and Simon Jones to come back afterwards it is not all doom and gloom, but we do need to learn how to win again.
Oh and the odd toss win would help!
Complain about this postengland is missing 2 of their best ODI players. Tres and KP are capable of taking on anybowler in whatever condition. since both are not there and andrew strauss being in bad form, everything is on fredye. unlike many in this boardi think that what one need in an OD team is a batting lineup that can hold fort when it is the need of the hour. bell, and strauss are very much capable of doing that. if michael vaughan can find some kind of form in ODIs, and flintoff, KP, and tres are fit and available, england still have a chance of doing well in the WC.
Complain about this postAnother spineless gutless batting performance.
Complain about this postWhy is Strauss there ? Is he sulking because of the captaincy issue? Certainly he appears to be unable to locate the middle of the bat and instills no confidence in either his team or the viewing public. However being one of Fletchers blue eyed boys it appears that however badly he plays it is impossible for him to be dropped
Well, here we go again Cricket is mostly about belief, and when you don't believe you can win you don't.
That said you can try to make a game of it.
It shows the lack of faith that the players have in their ability to stay at the crease that they fell to loose attacking shots, with nobody digging in and grinding it out a la Fairbrother.
At least we won't have to gbet thrashed by the Aussies again in the final.
Complain about this postI really feel for the England players - they are like the Grand Old Duke of York's men - when they are up they are up, when they are down they are down, and when they are only half-way up......
We have to look forward to Vaughan returning to the team and getting the positive attitude flowing.
Let's be fair, people. Tresco had to leave before he arrived, Vaughan was hobbling around but even now is not match fit, Freddie is an injury waiting to happen again, KP was felled.....
Of the test team, we are missing the lot above plus Harmison (retired from ODIs) and Hoggard. Look at the list - its 6 from 11!! Granted we should have strength in depth, but don't blame Fletcher for everything. He is a seasoned professional and he is not trying to lose. Winning is not a 'knack' that suddenly deserts you.
This tour has been too long and contained far too many games. What was the 20/20 thing about? Why do we have to play Aussie and NZ in 234 ODIs to discover which team is the best? I think the fault lies with the organisers of the tour and the short-term commercial considerations that over-ride team's well-being.
In the long-term, our touring sides should be limited to three meaningful warm-up games (not exhibition matches) , the test series and then a maximum of 3 or 4 ODIs, then come home for a well-earned rest. We are flogging the life out of our players.
Complain about this postPaul Glik makes an interesting comment re Vaughan and Fletcher. My take is that we shouldn't analyse why we donated the Ashes to Australia, but analyse why we got them in 2005. We had two batsmen in Vaughan and Trescothick who could take the game away from the Aussies if either fired, then we had Pietersen and Flintoff to come. Our fast bowling attack operated as a pack, not as individuals. They were so successful that Giles didn't have to be exposed. Vaughan's captaincy - calm, collected and masterful. Australia played with ten men as Gillespie was a passenger and McGrath stood on a ball. Result was we won the Ashes. We had none of this in the last series.
Complain about this post
Complain about this postCan somebody please tell me why 'they' don't like Reid. At least he can keep wicket. The batsmen can't bat but they get chance after chance. The bowlers can't bowl but they get chance after chance. The captain can't captain but he gets reappoinetd. Reid can keep wicket but is discarded every time. Why?
Read about how intensely the Aussies are preparing for the world cup, imagine how organised and ready for it they will be... then compare to how completely clueless we are and we can stop wasting our time thinking about world cup prospects.
Complain about this postI find it simply staggering that Owais Shah is not in the ODI side. After yet another inept performance against spin, is Fletcher going to turn to (after KP) the best player of spin in England? How many times is Collingwood going to potter around with little sweep-shots, scoring 10 off 37 balls, before Fletcher sees what is so blindingly obvious? Shah is twice the batsman Collingwood is.
Complain about this postFletcher, please pick this XI for the WC, it will actually win the odd game:-
Loye
KP
Bell
Joyce
Shah
Flintoff
Bopara/Dalrymple
Read
Panesar
Lewis
Anderson
This team has all the ingredients for a decent ODI side: belligerent openers, a classy middle-order with good players of spin, a great allrounder, the world's best keeper, a quality spinner and a decent pace attack. PLEASE Fletcher, drop Collingwood and play Shah before it's too late!
Bring our boys home!
Complain about this postWhere can I get the latest book from an English player about this Ashes tour of Australia? I've looked everywhere and can't find one yet. Also do you need to get tickets to attend the open bus parade to Trafalgar Sq.?
Complain about this postThe pressure wouldn't be on Flintoff if the higher order could bat and score decent runs. I think its time for England to get a specialist one day team instead of players suited more to test matches such as Strauss and Bell.
They also need to start rewarding bad performances with a spell on the sidelines and give some other players a chance. Everybody's place in the side is too secure and they know it.
Complain about this post9-1 this International season England.
If it's Australia most of the players would retire hastily and hide in the bushes for a month or so.
If it's Pakistan, most would not go back home any time soon
If it's India, most of them would be playing for a local Bank XI
But it's England- they will play on for their country.
Complain about this postEngland should replace Duncan Fletcher ASAP.
Woolmer should be appointed the new coach and his advise sought to find an Interim coach for the remainder of the one-day games in Oz and the world cup in Carribean..
Have a nice day
Complain about this postI am deeply unhappy at the teams performances but will not name the players whom I feel are playing poorly. They know themselves and at least 2 senior players must be on borrowed time. The problem is who will replace them . I personnally applaud the selection of Mal Loye and Paul Nixon, Loye if he gets in is a match winner and Nixon is a great keeper, very useful bat and must annoy the hell out of opposing teams. He seems Australian in his outlook and judging by the way they play thats not a bad thing if only the rest of the team gave off a similar vibe. Two players who might bring something to the party- Darren Maddy excellent one dayer and Stuart Broad get him in now.
Complain about this postThe whole problem strats at the top of the order. There is no urge to get the innings going and before you know it they are well behind the rate with 3 down. Totally pathetic attempt. Atleast in the test seies we got to watch some totally fantastic cricket for the home team.
Complain about this postI think the whole "we need big-hitting ODI specialists" angle is overplayed. You don't need a Gilchrist or a Pietersen to chase down 210 off 50 overs. What you need is for your conventional batsmen to bat properly. Sure, if Aus/WI/Pakistan rack up 350 against us, we'll be all at sea - but that'll be true in any case.
Complain about this postIn what ways has Read displayed that he is more or less mentally weak than other players. Knocking 150 for England A when the pressure was on and averaging 42 on test return when the pressure was really on aren't the signs of someone mentally weak in my book. I would say he has been remarkably strong considering the way he has been treated.
Read may not be the answer but as someone else pointed out, why not at least give him the chance of a reasonably extended run.
What benefits have the apparent energy of Nixon brought in practical terms (ie results)?
Complain about this postCurrently England simply aren't good enough!
The fact that englands best available batsmen (the likes of vaughan and strauss) even when in form and playing well score their runs at a strike rate between 65 an 80 runs per 100 balls. This is compared to india and australia who have 6 or 7 batsmen that all score at 80 runs per hundred balls plus.
Despite this I do think these are englands best available batsmen and i don't think england have a county player sat at home capable of winning them a world cup! Its simply about the current players developing their games to play better one day cricket. And that is surely where a change of coach should be looked at, fletcher has had his chance and his ideas (sweeping the spinners & constantly running down the wicket at medium fast bowlers) and his plans have failed! time to move on!
Complain about this postWhy focus on Flintoff as captain? Why focus on Flintoff at all? This defeat is all about the inability of the top 6 batsman to make a score and the fact that no Pietersen = no hope of making 200.
If anything these one-dayers have proved that Flintoff is capable of captaining the side, just the workload is too great in Test matches.
Why not split the test and one-day sides, captains, coaches, squads. They've done it with the bowlers - time to do it all the way. Australia did it years ago and look what happened.
Imagine - Flintoff could captain a one-day team without Vaughan, Bell and Strauss slowing the innings down; then play his heart out in tests with Vaughan or Strauss captaining the side.
Change the attitude then England might be able to compete in the 1-day arena
Complain about this postDrop:
Bell - he's no one-day player, leave him for the test matches where he can use his slower, nurdling game (which he does well).
Dalrymple - Too many bad days than good days, he's 30/70 at best.
Nixon - Such a random selection considering the others we have on offer.
Bring In:
Benning - Bit of youth and adventure, try it Dunc - you might like it!
Bopara - don't drag him about and not put him in the side, he deserves his chance.
James Foster - what does he have to do for consideration??? Come on Fletch, sort it out!!!
If not then it HAS to be Chris Read!!!
Fully fit team in my opinion:
Loye
Complain about this postStrauss
Vaughen
Pietersen
Flintoff
Collingwood
Foster/Read
Tremlett/Broad
Lewis
Anderson
Panesar
Yet another pathetic performance with the bat, are these best players we have! we just play so defensively and don't attack enogh, Collingwood and Bell good test players can't buy a run at the present, should they even be in the side, there must be better one-day players in the county scene. Strauss continually gets in to double figures and then decides to play across the line as today, why on earth don't they play straight.
Complain about this postNixon has hardly set the world on fire since his arrival, which beggars believe why Read was dropped to make way for him. Mal Loye certainly goes down attacking in the Peiterson mode of play, ifwe are going to continue loosing let's go down attacking at least bat the whole 50 overs, not 37.5 overs as today. The bowling is restricting the totals we require but time after time its the batters who continue to fail. Joyce all though bating well and Darlyripple got out to very poor and lasy shots, Collingwood since his great double test century looks a different player, appearing to be just to defensive at the crease, for which the same comment can be made of Ian Bell, should the No.3 spot be changed?
The bright spot in a terrible day was Flintoff's bowling efforts, but again our attack failed to kill off after having NZ 60 - 5! should they have been allowed to total so many, Oram should we have attacked him differently with alternative bowling lines and fielding placements!
The way we are playing we would be hard pressed to defeat either Kenya or Scotland!
Our approach with coaching must be questioned.
Why all this celebrity led nonsense. The onus is not on Flintstone with the bat as we know he is a decent bat for a bowler wickie but moderate if counted as a proper batter.
It is like people start their analysis of Man United around their worst regular starter this year, Rooney, rather than look at the team as a whole.
Anyway it is nice that Flintstone is bowling well at 92/93 mph. Maybe had he stayed off the wagon he could have done that when it really counted.
England are poor at one day cricket and have been for some time. No story. Other than Pietersen not sure anyone else's form good and bad is significant enough to be worthy of comment. Even KP is irrelevant given our bowling and other 5 batters.
Anyway what is sadder if everyone were fit we would put a poor one batter like Vaughan in to further weaken the team.
BTW Fletcher is coach Flinstone is the organ grinder and people should stop their sunny romanticising of the stand in captain. It is his fault not the coach (who is poor nonetheless).
Complain about this postpeople say strauss is not an odi player,maybe not but hes still one of the best england have, his average is better than most english odi regulars, however i do think hes really missing trescothick, someone who scores quickly naturally and allows strauss to rotate the strike and then accellerate his innings, the bowling was fine again today i have no complaints there but we had so many batsmen in the team and still managed to collapse again, at least joyce placed well and justified what the selectors originally picked him for but everyone else really needs to improve and quickly because it has been mostly the bastsmen that have let us down in odi's recently
Complain about this postDear Aussie Jeff,
You are not the first, and no doubt will not be the last Australian to gloat about our over-the-top celebrations in 2005.
Surely, rather than perpetuating the myth (fact?) that so many Australians are poor winners, it might be better to realise that the reason we celebrated to such an extent was because it was such an acheivement to beat such a strong Aussie side. Australia has been far and away the best side in world cricket for over ten years now. England were not give a chance of beating them. Not only did they do so, and the cricket was of such a quality and intensity, that we as a nation felt emboldened to celebrate in style and enjoy the moment.
Think of it as a gesture of respect Jeff and get a sense of perspetive.
Yours sincerely,
BBB
Complain about this postToo be honest, English are simply poor....The trouble is that England brag too quick before anthing is done. Proof of this, for instance, is with the previous ashes campaign, as they were resting to much on their laurels for overturning that Australian side. But if you analyse, that series closely then apart from one test they outplayed the Aussies but the other tests were close calls and could have gone either way.
Complain about this postPoor selection decisions from the Chairman of Selectors David Graveney and Engalnd Coach Duncan Fletcher have added to England woes for example Monty Panesar a much better off spiner than Ashley Giles who bowls with variation and guile quite simply Giles was not fit and should not have toured. The wicketkeeping position Chris Read should of played from the start as Geriant Jones glove work is technically flawed missing catching and stumping opportunities.
Currently Michael Vaughan in hind sight is not ready to be palying and should be focussing on getting fully match fit before serious injury puts him out of the game for game but such this is the current plight of the English at the moment then they inspiration from somewhere at this present time.
It is fine talking about reviewing the situation but at the end of the coach can only help the palys to execute a plan but they are simply not mentally strong enough or good enough to carry them out. Saying that there is no real decisive direction on where Engliash cricket is going! I believe a fresh perspective is needed Bob Woolmer would be a ideal candidate as has vast experience and can get the best out of players and certainly works to a plan as seen with South Africa and Pakistan.....
A lot of work is needed to re-structure the team for if they want to become the world's best.
England need to start differentiating between their one-day and test teams. Although it is hard for them to pick a different team down under, things need to change for the world cup.
It seems strange that the two best county teams at limited over cricket have no representation in the England squad. Surely Fletcher needs to consider the Essex players, Bopara, Cook, Foster and even the Dazzler. And likewise, England could learn a lot from Sussex even if they don't pick any of their players.
On the other hand, England today featured three players from Middlesex who were relegated in both forms of cricket this year. Fletcher should think about picking players on a good run of form with quality as well.
Complain about this postIt is not just the defeat but the non-competitive nature of the defeat. A whole winter of abject performances has done nothing to change my view that the ECB have got the entire policy wrong on producing two world beating teams for the tests and the one-dayers.
Complain about this postToo many platitudes, too many excuses and not enough competitive performances.
I am just one deflated cricket fan that has had nothing to cheer for seems like ever.
Goodbye ECB goodbye Team England goodbye cricket.
It was the same old story. The bowlers bowled well to put us in a winning position only for the batsmen to throw it all away. How much do England miss Pietersen? There are better cricketers than Nixon, Dalrymple, Bell who are better suited to limited overs cricket. What about Prior and Yardy. A very average looking NZ made England look utterly awful!
Complain about this postI for the life of me cannot understand why the bloke that scored the most runs in England last year , Ramprakash, is not on the tour ?
Complain about this postOK, he's a certain age, so what ?
This is posturing to prove a youth policy to the absolute mad level.
Everyone can play the hindsight game of best elevens and trapdoor the coach and all the bally selectors too but the fundamentals of English cricket malaise lie deeper. The game is riddled with favouritism over form from grass roots junior and club side to county and country and when you add low calibre, myopic and unimaginative coaches infesting the whole then the stream just stagnates. Stir in the dead hand of the zombied ECB blazers and it becomes toxic. For Graveney to declare Fletcher to be "the best cricket coach in the world" is as delusional as the preparation and planning for the recent Ashes and forthcoming WC. They have taken talent and ground coached them to one gear automatons without individuality and unable to respond to cricket or cameras without zombied and stuttered gaze. Even if the blazers and natty tracksuits do not believe in picking on form they should at least be capable and responsible for building a team. There is no England cricket team at the moment - just sad fish sucking for air. NZ may not have deep talent - but they do play as a team. And it will undoubtably be a team that will win the WC.
Complain about this postToday, I am extremely disappointed. C'mon England, make most of this opportunity. Flintoff is extremely talented ,but, I have said it time and again, Strauss, you gotta play well. He has been playing extremely poorly, same is the case with Bell, Collingwood. Bell, Collingwood and Strauss, they are senior and have more experience, that gotta make themselves count. I am very disappointed. This is agonizing. Anyways, the only positive was the bowling performance..Nothing more to say...C'mon England, man, there are so many of us who are concerned and atleast show that concern on the field
Complain about this postI think Nic Pothas is the ideal wicketkeeper for England. He is qualified to play for the side, is 32 years old, and should be the man to do the job, until Stephen Davies is ready.
Complain about this postNixon was picked to compliment the batting line up as he does at Leicestershire. If the top order repeatedly fail the poor guy is up the creek. He is not the problem, he might even be capable of doing a job if he ever gets in when the team are not in crisis.
Complain about this postAll sportsmen, especially England cricketers, should be paid on results. They should get nothing if they lose, split the purse if they draw and take all the cash if they win. All professional sportsmen these days get paid a fortune, win or lose, so they really don't care. Can you imagine a 'normal' working person being paid if he produced similar results to English cricketers? They would be sacked and that is what should happen to the England cricket squad. Sack the lot without pay.
Complain about this postHmm... wonder where all the "Drop Joyce!" brigade from a couple of days ago have gone? His top score has barely been mentioned so far... I wonder if you're all waiting for another good innings before you can anoint him the saviour of English one day cricket so you can put him on a pedestal and shoot him down with the next failure.
Bad shot to get out, granted and he's by no means proven but he needs an extended run - he's no KP but he may be a Thorpe.
To all those making wholesale changes to the squad, it's too late guys, we need to make the best of what we have. Get through the group in the WC and it will be adequate given the form we've shown over the last two years. The only addition I would sanction would be Broad but I think it's too early and may scar him; I mean he's unlikely to change any result on his own is he, given the batting? Keep the tinder dry for 2011.
Complain about this postFlintoff keeps telling us that the team "played their guts out". They have no pride. The reality is that they are all a bunch of imposters having a grand holiday at someone elses expense whilst taking the 'P***' out of the cricketing public. He is totally clueless as a captain and looked like a 'rabbit caught in headlights' at the Gabba and Adelaide Oval during the test matches. I was there.
Complain about this postWhen will the EWCB wake up and give these jokers performance related contracts.
am getting extremely frustrated by Collingwood's criticisms. England's best one day player for the last 3 years, his place though is being questioned by some people on here. OK, he hasn't set the world alight with his batting since his double ton but is a handy bowler and is fielding is of a different standard. He may not be everyones favourite like Flintoff who gets praised for everything!But he should not be dropped. I think Fletcher needs to work out a strategy with the batting.
Complain about this postLoye - license to play shots
Strauss - 2nd fiddle for Loye
Vaughan - orthodox
Flintoff - license like Loye
Joyce - confidence
Collingwood - hussey role
Nixon - better than Read
Plunkett
Lewis
Anderson
Panesar
Come home England - and get into the nets for some hard training to improve - rather than contnuing finding excuses. You have become a total embarrassment to English cricket
Complain about this postDale, how is Nixon better than Read please? Because he talks louder? Read is a far better keeper and a better batsman. Unfortunately, it seems that Fletcher would rather play anyone than Read as keeper - calling over a 36yr old was just another example of Fletcher's woeful mismanagement of this talented player.
Complain about this postHow can England expect to win when six players score 20 runs between them, "GOOD GRIEF"
Complain about this postTo all those being critical of Ian Bell,
I agree that he isn't the fastest scorer of runs we have ever seen in an English ODI squad. Nevertheless, he has a tendency to hang around for a while. He has the fifth highest average of any English ODI player in history at just below forty. Given that Keith Fletcher, Chris Broad and Nick Knight are unlikely to come out of retirement any time soon, that leaves him second amongst the current crop only to Kevin Pietersen.
Give the young man a chance. The best one day sides have players who can more often than not hang around for a while as well as the explosive ones who can up a run rate.
Complain about this postplease play matt prior in the world cup. nixon/read are embarrasing with the bat. he will offer aggressive lower order runs, and deserves a chance (apart from sacrificial opening pinch-hitter).
i think strauss would do a good job down the order, i just have a feeling, he is a good sold player but can be aggressive.
perhaps my world cup team would be
Loye/Bopara/Benning
Vaughan
Bell/Collingwood
Pietersen
Flintoff
Strauss
Prior
Dalymple
Broad/Tremlett/Lewis
Anderson
Panesar
Im still interested whether to see if Loye has such an obvious weakness outside off-stump that it renders him useless, but if he can show this was coincidence, then play him.
I think we can only afford to play bell or collingwood, as with both we can stagnate, and leave too much pressure on others. i would be inclined to pick bell as he averages 40, and can be a very fluent player when in form (anyone remember as far back as the summer?)
As for broad/lewis/tremlett, this is tricky, lewis has done little wrong, but broad and tremlett are more threatening attacking options. i really don't know.....
Dalrymple deserves his place. his is good enough as a number 8 batsman, and is a very effective ODI bowler, his containing spin will be vital in the carribean.
Complain about this postEngland simply don't have the players to be a good one day team. By my reckoning they are about 10 short. The fact that a journeyman wicketkeeper who is picked for being mouthy rather than a good cricketer sums it up. On the other hand his possible replacements don't exactly inspire confidence. Stop blaming Fletcher and Flintoff for the lack of quality they are forced to play with. England have a good test team but the ability just isn't there in the shorter form of the game.
Complain about this postEngland are seriously missing peiterson and trescothik. also i dont think nixon and loye are good enough at this level and england lack structure, depth and disipline in thier batting almost every time they bat. on the positive side freddie captained the side really well and anderson and lewis are sowing encouraging signs with the new ball.
Complain about this postEngland are seriously missing peiterson and trescothik. also i dont think nixon and loye are good enough at this level and england lack structure, depth and disipline in thier batting almost every time they bat. on the positive side freddie captained the side really well and anderson and lewis are sowing encouraging signs with the new ball.
Complain about this postIt seems top-order collapses are in vogue right now. Sure England should be ashamed of their performance, but the NZ top-order crashed spectacularly as well. Elsewhere, India and SA have seen similar stuff. Even the mighty Aussies have admitted their top-order needs to fire else they're in trouble. Are we seeing the beginning of the end for the specialist batsman in cricket?
Complain about this postGo and spend some money and get Buchanan after the World cup even if its to mentor a YOUNGER man to take over
Complain about this postFletcher and co cant get anything right
I think most players will fail in the english side unless a more stringent contract is negotiated.
It would appear that the pride associated with playing for ones country evades both the england cricket and football teams.
There are only a handful of players in the current set-up, test and one-day, who are worthy of an england cap...the rest have wasted copious amounts of taxpayers money!
A significant element of the contract should be performance related taking into account the opponents etc..
Complain about this postSome people on here clearly think the most important attribute for a keeper is to shout aimless drivel at the end of each delivery - touch gloves after every ball while batting - and to wind up the opposition (for example Hussey) so they win a few overs quicker.
Complain about this postI remember Martin McCaigue (sp) being chosen for an Ashes trip in the past on the basis that he called the batsman a 'lucky bast##d' after each delivery. Unfortunately he couldn't bowl - and likewise Nixon brings nothing to the team other than a feeling of irritation while watching him!
The reason Read is not in the team is because Fletcher thinks he is mentally weak! He makes this assumption on the basis of Reid being quite quiet! Well better to have a quiet competent keeper (mentally weak keeper) than a complete mentalist!
I am afraid the chris read situation with duncan fletcher, has become embarrassing.
Fletcher obviously does not like read personally, and that is my concern, read was picked for the 4th & 5th Test Match under pressure, from a position of being clearly number 1 by the end of the pakistan series.
I think the handling of read is tpo say the least "bullying" by flether & I think fletcher is trying to crack read, and make him insist on going home before the end of the one day series.
Complain about this post62. Tonka,
79. Dale,
50. KD,
38. Steve Goran Fletcher,
22. Doug, 19.
2.Critic
….and all other pseudo-selectors on this forums- with opinions of Nixon, Read, Fletcher, Bell and so on and so forth- I just feel sorry for you. I’m just glad I’m not anymore a fan of English cricket- not since Atherton and Nasser Hussein strangled the fighting spirit under their captaincies. No wonder, cricket is no longer a mainstream sport for the younger demographics in England.
KP may not fully recover for World Cup, he may play, but there will be this huge media commotion on whether he will be fit or not till the end- Vaughan will be in and out of the team right through the World Cup, because his injury is not going anywhere, Flintoff’s persistent ankle problem will be worse and will make him further precious and he may not bowl as much as England would like and Tresco is obviously not mentally ready to be in the Squad.
England may win a few matches in the World Cup, ONLY and if one or both KP and Freddie contribute and the any other discussion on selection is in vain- and the argument about “right” World Cup selection is pure rubbish. It’s just a joke to have a debate on Read and Nixon, or even Bell, and Lewis- it’s a no brainier for any other team- they’ve no promise or place in One Day Int’l Cricket.
Complain about this postBy the way, Paul Nixon should shut up and score a couple of 50s before any more of the rants from behind the stumps. If you score a few runs and then howl, it annoys the opposition- they look at you as a thorn in their paw. With absolutely non-existential presence in the XI- you look like an idiot and a big joke trying to “get under the skin.” I don’t think Aussies or Kiwis even notice him when he comes to bat, and if they do notice I don’t think they’re too worried. So score runs before trying to be a too much of a smart cookie.
Look at Collingwood, he looked like a competitor when he sledged for a couple of innings after his double century- but looked like a total idiot in altercation with Warne in his last test match, when England were down 4-0.
At least unlike Jones or Nixon, Read was willing to be modest until he becomes noticeable.
P.S: I think Strauss is a class act, they way he carried himself with the oppositions and the Umpires even after some dreadful decisions against him. That’s class.
Complain about this postoh no. i though it couldnt get worse. what a false dawn last week was. well glimmer of light more like. probably the most pitiful performance from the useless one day side, now im only a young fan, but considering how bad its been of late, thats saying something. we cant even get close, hardly even half way to a low total on a good pitch, against NZ. help. we need a hero, big time. lets get botham out there!
Complain about this postseriously, why are people critising nixon, and even loye! theve had four and two matches respectively. give them a run. nixon is a leader, and we need one of those as much as anything right now. and can anyone sugest a genuinely experience attacking opener from county cricket, other than loye. give them time. give most of them time. but it must be bye bye to fletcher after the world cup. i like the man, but its too big a hole were in.
Why is it Flintoffs fault as captain that almost every member in the team is not producing the goods?
Is it becasue the captain is not giving the inspiration that is required? That cannot be so because Andrew is bowling out of his skin, (maybe that has inspired the rest of the bowlers because they have been doing well).
Perhaps it is because his batting performances have not been the best. He certainly got out to a wild shot yesterday when he should have looked to bat to the end. Then again he is in at number six. Should nt those above him be trying to do similar things, batting to the end? The openers slowly (if they have too) getting a partnership over 50, with the next few in consolidating a run chase. Which is just not happening.
So is the captain not saying the right things to the boys before they head out, or are the batsmen themselves not looking to their own inspiration, the three lions on their chest?
It is a team that is underacheiving. Dont blame your captain because he clearly is trying his heart out.
Blame the selectors if you want but would any one be able to perform at this level instantly and consistently? If this is the team for the future then stick with them, let them play themselves in. Chopping and changing does not help.
Mind you, be ruthless enough to get rid of dead wood. Need a chainsaw anyone?
Complain about this postPeter Fleming asks if England should play two Irishmen? - No matter the opposition they will still lose
Complain about this postAfter the rank favouritism shown to Jones over a long period we now have a bizarre preference for an ageing never was or will be - Nixon. It really is too pathetic for words. Whatever happened to selection on merit? Our opponents usually manage it. No wonder the rest of the cricketing world is laughing fit to bust.
Complain about this postThe loss of Troy Coley has been England's greatest. I agree with some other posts that Read should be in the side. His one day record with the bat is pretty impressive not to mention his sound keeping. I think Bell and Strauss need a rest, more mentally than physically especially seen as fielding a "weakened" side won't be disastorous. It would give some others a chance and maybe bring out something in a few players.
Complain about this postI always thought that we just have the same Test team for the One-Dats but with our performances in lets put the best pro40 players in and more people like KP who have got huge egos and happy to smack the bowlers out the ground. But also more all rounders because our bowling is good but our batting is dismal. Duncan Fletcher needs to cheer his team on.
Complain about this postIt's all in the mindset of english cricket towards one day cricket. It's very unfortunate that very rare fast bowling powerhouse [alongwith pakistan]shows the match stats as it was today.very rarely can anyone find technical fault in english batmen- bat comes straight-follow through fine-cut ,pull they can play everyshot.But they are just trapped in the clutches of perfectionism.one cue can elaborate , they very rarely play shots on the up,plus they don't come forward very often. coming forward means full fledged classical front foot shots & this is very rare when u see them play.Probably there is a case of too much of coaching & as a result too much thinking .And thinking excess is not a good business in batting. hope they will change this .And mind every british this is the best bowling line england have in the last one &a half decade .A good team must win.england should believe in same fashion.
Complain about this postLets face it England cricket is in a mess
Complain about this postIt will continue to be so until the so called "top people" have been put out to grass and some new blood more inovation and motivation is brought in rather than a bitch about nixon or whoever
Get the heads out of the sand boys were not good enough
This is very dissppointing not to be able to see what english cricket is made of on the field
With so much limited overs cricket(20/20,50/50 and what not..) being played in the county circuit its amazing England cannot find 5-7 specialist limited overs batsmen. Its time to get rid of Bell,Joyce, Vaughn,Nixon and find some specialist one day players who can score quickly.
These current Eng. batsmen(except Flintoff,Loye ) are pathetic.
Complain about this postOh just for the record the "Barmy army " tees shirts are now priced at 45 dollars rather than 90 dollars
Complain about this postMike Brearley - your country needs you!
Complain about this postTo princess (89):
Interesting point - I think that at the moment the game is too heavily slanted in favour of batsmen.
The number of bouncers allowed per over, strict wide laws, anti-ball tampering hysteria, heavier bats, almost total body armour (almost....sorry KP), refusal to use tv replays for lbw for disputed snicks........all these factors mitigate against the bowler. The most exciting thing to see in cricket is a wonderful catch or an amazing run-out. Watching someone flog the ball for six or four is great for a couple of shots, but for me the game is forgetting its fundamentals - the conflict between too lonely figures out in the middle against 11 who want them to get out.
These days the game demands more and more attacking batsmen who score quickly and get out because of that. A specialist batsman is one who can hit 70 in 70 balls. He is a star. Anyone who tries to patiently build an innings and use his ability to slowly grind out a winning position is 'boring'.
The tv and the sponsors want hard-hitting batsmen who thrash the ball all over the place, because they are trying to feed action to a population of viewers whose attantion span is measured in the distance between commercial breaks. The sponsors want to have dynamic all-action heroes to promote their energy drinks, not great technical players who can frustrate the life out of a bowling side.
For me the batsmen never had it so good - so maybe, on balance, you are right, their real skill level is decreasing and if it goes on like this they will be more baseball players than cricketers. I will have lost interest then.
Complain about this postI don't think England's poor results are the cause of bad team selection, because the talent is there, but it is uneven performances that is costing them. Rarely do we see England's bowlers and batters both performing, it has always been one or another. This was seen again in today's ODI, when England's bowlers did a good job, bowling in the right areas. But when we had to chase down the relatively small total, England managed another batting collapse.
Against Australia in the first ODI of the series, England posted a respectable 242, but their bowlers didn't do their job as Australia only lost 2 wickets as they chased down the total.
However, with that said, I think that a few more boundary hitters in the side would do no harm.
Complain about this postSnce winning the ashes 2 years ago, england have done nothing.
This was due to the complete destruction of the well balanced and confident team.
Since the ashes 2 years ago they have..lost their skipper and opening bat ....lost the services of a very dangerous swing bowler..JONES
Complain about this postlost the services of SUPERMAN FLINTOFF (2operations and not yet fit)...loss of spin bowler (injury)...loss of opening batsman TRESCOTHIC probably for good.
the weight of these tragic injuries have turned a great cricket machine
into a team of inefective trialists.
So dont blame the manager that the england side to day is only a pale shadow of the great and very promising side which thumped australia in england.
To Anthony in post 107.
Dont dispair mate for the loss of the technical skill of a batsman slowly building an innings.
They have this crazy new version of one day games that is played over five days!
Complain about this postAustralia must be so bored - they have to play each of these twice more, then one of them in a three-game final. Good grief - they must wonder why they bother.
England's latest capitulation is even more depressing than normal because they lost to a similar team. No world beaters just a team of decent players who in this case played to their strengths and made the most of what they have. When was the last time England did that? All we hear from england (and some supporters) is what happened more than a year ago and how great we are on paper. Rubbish. It's what you do on the field that matters - not what you say at press conferences - and New Zealand today wanted to win more than England.
I do feel the slightest sympathy for Joyce - he came into this side at a lousy time and with the label of being one of Fletcher's pets. That would have been a positive thing a year ago but now it's a millstone because Fletcher's preferences have been discredited in so many cases.
I'm still baffled by the Nixon selection. Why???? And just when you think things can't get any worse, there's a reminder that Ashley Giles is in the provisional World Cup squad and wants a place for the tournament itself. Heaven help us.
Complain about this postI believe the current England cricket team is a reflection of Duncan Fletcher's personality - essentially conservative and not prone to taking risks. this has generally worked well in the test arena where batsmen (KP excepted) are encouraged to hang in, protect their wicket and wait for the bad ball to come. This approach does not work at all in the one day arena (or in tests where the opposition don't give you bad balls to hit a la australia) where our generally solid bowling is being consistently let down by the batsmen.
Most of our batsmen do not have the skills, power or mentality to improvise, especially at the top of the order where taking advantage of the fielding restrictions is a must. How many times have we seen our top order scratch around and end up with 30 or 40 runs after 10 overs when 80 is probably a par score now?
Who else can we turn to? Strauss, Bell & Collingwood would all have been dropped by most other major nations but is there really anyone better out there? People like Solanki and Prior have had numerous chances and have shown they arent up to the task. Unfortunately KP is the only class batsman we have.
Complain about this postyou know why they call it "one day" cricket? because "one day', someone will beat australia.
Complain about this postone day.
Having read virtually all posts, one thing is abundantly clear amongst this shower of apathy....and no Duncan, it isn't HINDSIGHT...I and loads of others were saying this 3 months ago...Chris Read should be the England keeper in both forms of cricket full stop. What does the lad have to do? No bottle someone said...oh, right, and Nixon and Jones have. Nixon is a journeyman. The cricketing equivalent of Vinny Jones. Get rid now. Oh, n whilst ur at it, 'rest' Collingwood and Bell they're shot, give Dalrymple half a shout of confidence n let him bat higher than the desert rat, and for Big JC's sake will you take the armband off Flintoff, he's almost as clueless as you...almost.
Complain about this postLook, this one-day "China Syndrome" meltdown is no suprise. In the one-day rankings, England were only ever ahead of Bangladesh, Zimbabwe and Kenya...and that was before they lost Banger, KP and Harmison. With a drastically weakened side, what chance have they got against No1 Auz and No4 Kiwi?
No chance. Best they can do is grit their teeth and stick it out. Would you like to be in their place?
I've enjoyed watching the Poms having their clocks cleaned in The Ashes, but now it's just getting boring.
Complain about this postThis is one of the most useless England teams to come to Australia.
Complain about this postThey have no ambition, no talent and no hope.
If they were to be paid by results they would be as poor as church mice.
There is something basically wrong with English cricket...................they can't play and they are poorly organised and it's time for drastic change.
"The Australians bowled well, they put it in good areas and we probably showed a bit of inexperience with our batting. We could have stuck in for a bit longer." (Flintoff after losing to Aus at Gabba 19/1/07)
"It wasn't a 120 all out pitch and Ed Joyce showed us what could be done. He played really nicely. The rest of us were below-par." (Flintoff after losing to NZ at SCG 23/1/07)
Been back over here in Aus on holidays enjoying the dulcet tones of our Ritchie Benaud on Channel 9's coverage of the cricket. He made the observation after Flintoff's dismissal (heave off Brett Lee, caught in deep) against Aus that it was a poor and unecessary dismissal when England needed nothing more than for him to stick around and bat through the remainder of the innings. Yesterdays' pitiful dismissal (dancing down the wicket with run chase in hand and 21 overs to go) showed (1) how one dimensional Flintoff is with his batting (hit out at all costs, regardless of the situation), (2) how he hasn't learnt from poor dismissals on this tour and (3) he has shown no responsibility or leadership in the middle order (ala Hussey). I know he had the weight of responsibility thrust on him but he doesn't have to have it and by the looks of it, can't handle it anyway. It's a shame because we wanted to see the best of him and this might only happen if he gives the captaincy away.
Complain about this postTo smacca (104)
I fear you are right.....test matches are becoming the preserve of the sloggers.
Baseball is coming! It's actually fun to watch about once every ten years, but oh lordie.....cricket is part of our country, and Aussie, and India and Pakistan and WI, and SA, and all the other nations who think its worth it. Nobody owns it, but we should all look after it better.
For me TMS is the only way I can enjoy it these days and get away from the damned advertising and enjoy this wonderfully exciting and cerebral jousting tournament. I seriously enjoy listening to the commentators and specialists who give their opinions instead of watching messages asking me to buy this or that useless product.
'A picture is worth a thousand words'.......but give me a thousand TMS words any day in place of a picture of a lager advertisement.
Complain about this postAfter reading the Bob Woolmer thread, a few things occurred to me.
One of the challenges of management is not only to deliver but to be fair to all, not just your favourites. Sometimes it's the hardest thing - to separate one's personal feelings from the greater good, but it has to be done. It seems to me Fletcher - who has been successful in so many ways - has failed on this.
It's obvious Fletcher favours some players over others and that simply isn't acceptable. He is the coach of the England team - his responsibility is to deliver to the England and Wales Cricket Board (and hence to the wider public) not to keep his favoured few in work. The poster who called him/herself "Sven Goren Fletcher" has it in a nutshell really. Too many players feel in a comfort zone (astonishingly after a couple of matches only!!!!).
I just look at Australia - Hussey waited a long time for his opportunity and has delivered because he knows he won't get a second chance. How much better would some of England's regulars be if their livelihood depended on achieving on the the fileld? Would any England player seak so emotionally about representing their country as Justin Langer did?
Look at Liam Plunkett - his blog is more about his girlfriend and attending rock concerts than striving for the best. Staying out late the night before appearing for England should be a sacking offence but in the current climate it's par for the course.
Complain about this postThe approach of the English management to ODI cricket is wrong. I may not be an expert, but the results sure say so.
1. What's the need for rushing Vaughan back in? These guys are professionals and Vaughan is not a great leader to turn zeroes to heroes overnight. So his return to the team was not needed, especially when he himself was not a very decent ODI player.
2. What's with appointing specialist players in the team? Strauss, Bell, Joyce, Vaughan. Come on. You need people to contribute everywhere and if you have a specialist, he BETTER be good enough to be on the team as one. Show me one specialist on the English team (including Vaughan), who is that good.
So replace them with Collingwood or better Holliake type players. That's how NZ has fared in the recent years. Don't see why England can't do well with such an approach. And I am sure that county cricket will have such players available. Two of England's best players - Flintoff and KP, can contribute as bowlers and batsmen. So find average players who can do both and improve rather than looking for the best batsmen or bowlers in the counties.
Just my 2 cents worth. Good luck England, though I am a big Aussie fan.
Complain about this postThis cricket team has become a national disgrace. There is little point in arguing about who should be in or out, not one of them has demonstrated conclusively that they are fit to wear an England shirt. Fletcher should go for sure and Graveney with him. Get the old f.rts out of management and bring in players made of the right stuff.
Complain about this postHO DEAR
Complain about this postTHE MINNOES TOO GOOD FOR ENGLAND ENGLAND SHOULD NOW HAVE GOT THE MESSAGE ANDJEST GO HOME AND SAVE ENGLAND CRICKET & THE COUNTRY ANY MORE EMBARESMENT
WILLIAM
"It wasn't a 120 all out pitch and Ed Joyce showed us what could be done. He played really nicely. The rest of us were below-par." (Flintoff after losing to NZ at SCG 23/1/07)
47 off 70 is not exactly setting the world on fire, is it?
Complain about this postAll this overanalysing.
"Bring in Mr. Average County Cricketer, instead of Mr. Medioce County Cricketer."
The plain simple fact is that England play rubbish cricket, the county cricket system is shot and is not producing players of any quality, and hence you get a team who are great at being average.
By bringing in this player or that player you won't fix the problem. The system is rotten to the core and no amount of window dressing will fix this team.
Just accept the fact that there is no talent in England, you are rated slightly above Zimbabwe, Bangladesh and Scotland in the one day rankings, and that you might have an occasional victory over New Zealand if you are lucky.
The expectations of you England fans are quite ridiculous.
Complain about this postYou are ranked the 8th best team out of 11. Why are you harping on about the team as if they are underacheiving?
To encourage attendance at the match, local television coverage of the New Zealand v England game was restricted to the first two hours of the match which meant that those of us poms living in Adelaide who were unable to get to the ground were unable to watch the second half of the New Zealand innings and the whole of the England innings.
Thank you. Now I know there's a God.
Complain about this postI have always been critical of the armchair selectors who frequent these columns but after the latest debacle I would like to offer the following team which,I suggest, would stand a better chance than the present shower of avoiding a complete massacre this coming Friday.
Johann Strauss
Myrna Loy
Frankie Vaughan
Gertrude Bell
Paul Daniels
William Joyce aka Lord Haw Haw
Freddy and the Dreamers
President Nixon
Jamie Oliver
Monty Don
Moira Anderson
The late Lord Lambton
Twelfth Man
Ann Widdecombe MP
Unfortunately there is no place in my team for Wallace and Gromit but the way that English cricket is going, their time will come.
Complain about this postIf fully fit for the world cup, my English batting line up would be:
Mal Loye
Michael Vaughan (c)
Kevin Pietersen
Mark Ramprakash (vc)
James Benning
Andrew Flintoff
Matt Prior / Chris Read
Stuart Broad
Simon Jones
Monty Panesar
James Anderson
Liam Plunkett
This way, we bat down to 9; we have 4 quicks, 1 world class spinner, and an experienced captain.
We leave Freddie and KP free of responsibility to do what they do best, we open with a nice blend of traditional scoring shots and the unorthodox; we give KP plenty of time to build his innings; we have Ramps there for his ability and experience; we have a very exciting player of the future in Benning; Fred can then come in blast away from the platform the others have built and he can be given ample support from the keeper, Broad and Jones.
Whatever Monty and James score is just a bonus - they're there for their bowling and fielding (mostly James, here, sorry Monty - think you're great though :-).
Whilst I really like these following 4 players, I would keep Strauss, Trescothick, Bell, and Cook for the Tests and get them working hard on their batting in this format so that they can consistently get us off to a good start and unfortunately, I would drop Collingwood completely. His brain seems like it's been fried since the Adelaide test collapse and he does not seem to have the ability to deal with it and move on. He never had a great range of shots in his locker but at least he fought. I haven't seen a glimmer of that since his 200.
Coming to Australia was always going to be hard, but whilst the lads have clearly tried very hard and their continuing spirit is a testament to their character, I think I think a change in strategy and possibly a change of coach is needed.
Complain about this postwoeful woeful. living here in aus and sitting through what i can only call a disgrace to the british flag.time and time again england have shown that they are totally inept at either form of the game. lets be honest the top 5 batting order have all made the odd contribution in the odd game, i'm sorry this does not make you a world class player, none of the 5 seem to be worried about being dropped (who do we have to replace them) they have a free meal ticket and know it. performance related pay might be the way to go, they would all be in debt now.if there is no one of world class capabillities in the country then the ecb should be asking themselves why. but like nero they sit and fiddle while english cricket goes rappidly down the drain.
Complain about this postNo one seems to have made a comment on the 'spectacular' catch by Gillespie. Surely he grounds the ball whilst catching it. More and more games are being decided by decisions that can be seen, in the luxury of your living room, to be incorrect. Crciket is becoming as pointless as England! Speaking of which, is Flintoff the best number eight who bats at six we have ever had?
Complain about this postJust plain embarrassing! Maybe england should just withdraw altogether from cricket altogether, we're obviously completely rubbish at it.
I think what we really need is a complete rebuild from top to bottom, more attention to building up English players in the county teams and less acceptance of foreign imports. Selectors that are able to make tough choices, and a captain that inspires and leads his team to victory.
Complain about this postFlintoff bowled beautifully, batted stupidly. If you are an all rounder, you have to do both well. Someone should tell him.
Complain about this postBored bored bored thinks Aussie Jeff's little comment was a gloat. This is a gloat ha ha we beat you ha ha - see the difference
Complain about this postWhat's the story with Lewis - bowled his 10 overs then left the field. Surely that is against the rules. Maybe the umpires should be checking on that sort of thing. I think one of the NZ bowlers did it too.
Complain about this postI'd like to follow up Simon's comment about Strauss. It seems years since he had a decent score. Australia would have given him a rest long ago and told him to get his act together. Why can't England do that? Virtually any player in the country would out-score Strauss at the moment. It would also send a message to Collingwood and Bell that doing ok once in a while is not good enough. Our top order is dreadful at the moment, and I think it is all a problem of attitude and work. You never know, if the batsmen start getting a few runs, the tail might think it worthwhile contributing as well. And as for wicket keeper/batsman - the selectors have really lost it this time. They might as well have stuck with Jones!
Complain about this postSurely Ian Bell has to go.
He must now officially be, the worst number three in international cricket.
Complain about this postcant believe I would champion the cause of a sphycologist but there is, sad to say, something missing in the charactor of these lads.
Complain about this postI'm sure the "positive attitude" they keep wheeling out at the press conference is because they, like the rest of us know when it comes to ability, they are not as far behind as the results suggest. The heartbreaking fact is that they lack bottle and have let the Aussies intimidate them again to the point where they are clearly not able to perform to thier abilities. It was understandable in the nineties as the Aussies were so much superior in all facets of the game. I for one do not believe the gap is anywhere near what it was then.
Pehaps Duncan should invest in a few Dr Phill books and leave em around the hotel
Why on earth does England persist in ignoring its best wicket-keeper? After Chris Read's electric performances in the Melbourne and Sydney Test matches, which highlighted the lunacy of persisting with Jones for so long, he has now been jettisoned in favour of the aging Nixon. Why? None of them is any use with the bat, but at least Read shows consumate skill behind the stumps: indeed, he looks to me to be the best since the retirement of Jack Russell and Ian Healey.
Complain about this postIf this was football, the coach would have been sacked ages ago. Its about time Woolmer was brought in to shake this lot up and give incentive to young thrilling players like Steve Davies to take over the gloves and give England the chance of getting a 50 in the middle order.
Complain about this postThis mockery of the noble game of cricket has been so painful to watch. For goodness sake look at yourselves, stand up and play for your country and be proud of it. No excuses, pull out your fingers and play.
Let's just assume Tresco will be bright and breezy before the world cup.
Tresco
Loye
Bell / Strauss / Vaughan depending on captaincy and fitness
Pieterson
Flintoff
Colly
Pryor
Yardy
Panesar
Lewis
Anderson
Yes Yardy is left arm spin too but he can play big shots. Dalrymple would be good for the team if we didn't have colly / bell etc.
A player we're really missing is Tres. But also it would be superb if Ben Holl was an option. He's not
Complain about this postHere's a suggestion for securing the long term future of English cricket.
Sell the whole set up to Roman Abramovich and make a tidy profit to start with. Let him bring in a monosyllabic Portuguese to replace the monosyllabic Fletcher. Then let the monosyllabic Portuguese bring in a whole load of Serbs, Turks and Zaireans to form the nucleus of a future England cricket team.
Of course they would lack the basic skills to start with. In particular they would have to be told that handball is OK, except when you're batting, and that there are two refs to jostle instead of one.
But what they lacked in basic skill would be more than offset by the energy and aggression they would bring to any team. Commodities sadly lacking in the present English team.
Imagine what this aggression could do on the field of play. What would it do to Ricky Ponting's confidence if he were slide tackled from behind every time he got into double figures? What would Michael Hussey think if he refused to 'walk' and got head butted for his trouble? And what about the sledging? You don't sledge a John Terry twice, sunshine. Not if you want your nose to stay in the same part of your face.
Above all a new breed of cricketer could raise the art of spitting to an altogether new level. At present only Flintoff is really trying. What is to stop all eleven players gathering in a huddle and spitting at precisely the point at which they want the ball to turn?
We can do it, chaps. All we need is a bit of imagination. Change the cast of characters,I say, and we'll beat them one day!
Complain about this postProbably one of dullest oen day games I seen in a long while..
Complain about this postYet again it was embarrassing coming into work as a Pome in Australia. Again totally ridiculed as the way the team set about the "chase"
Complain about this postWith regard to Nixon...whatever happened to Foster (having watched him regularly at Essex) Surely he has recovered from his broken arm?
We can also ask Andy Flower if he wouldn't mind helping out!!(After all, he is "English" now. Surely 2 better options at keeper/batsman than we currently have.
Guys, please put in a better effort on Friday, just so I can have a peaceful Monday morning.
Paul Nixon, what a disgrace.
Overage
Overrated
Over-excited
Over-talks
Over-intense
He just oozes the stench of former 'backstop' (and thats being kind) Alec Stewart.
Duncan Fletcher, what a champion you are for dropping the best keeper in the world. Chris Read should be the fist name on the sheet, not some 36 year old nobody country player who thinks he can bring a great deal of experience to the side....what experience? Some poor sub-standard one day match in england in front of 2000 people?
You have no idea Duncan, get out.
Complain about this postBeyond shambolic. What is wrong with this team? Where is the spirit? Where is the professionalism? This is nothing less than a complete and utter farce. Without blowing my own trumpet, I reckon my alright self and a handful of my backyard mates could hand these jokers a telling lesson in passion and commitment.
Complain about this postIt's no shock that England keep loosing, they need a new team and coach!. So who's looking forward to the game on Friday? becasue im sure we are going to crush the poms so badly they will probblay go back to there hotel rooms and commit suicide. lol!
Complain about this post"We are capable of better" is this summer's mantra for English team, repeated in a convictionless monotone and without any meaning whatsoever. What is this elusive "better" they mumble of? Has it been on display yet? If so, in which game? I don't understand. It's like a carrot being dangled in front of a donkey (which, unfortunately is the English fans). The "better" they promise better bloody well rear its head soon...
Do they players even read these posts?
Complain about this post
Complain about this postI live in Adelaide. They are an embarrassment. Please call them Home at once and ask Blair to get hi s Medals back!
Matt with post 31 I couldnt agree more. If you are going to go down at least go down fighting - thats what i told our boys at Waterloo - these foreigners don't like it up 'em!
Complain about this postThere is an A team and two B teams in this competition. Simple as that. Me thinks it will be a trans-Tasman final judging by the enthusiasm of the Kiwi side during the winning performance against England.
Complain about this postWhy is Gerrait Jones getting so much stick? Was
Complain about this postn't he the wicket keeper when England narrowly won back the ashes?I said narrowly won back the ashes,so what is the big deal about Chris Read, James Foster,Matt Prior,or Nixon;the results would have been the same.Ashley Giles
Monty Panesar,who ever,same results.What is Robert Key average when matched to some of these jokers, a lot better.Why is he being left out of everything..
Believe me, there is nothing funnier in this world, than watching you poms just implode and turn on each other when you get thrashed. This is truly the greatest summer we Aussies can remember. No one here is looking for a contest, we just want to watch the pommies get spanked (we are even supporting NZ when the two play). Without being concerned if I sound contrascending or not, how about Andy Flower for your World Cup squad? I think he qualifies and is available. He is still a class act, experienced and could open your innings and keep. He's also got a bit more style than your current lot - when his side has played poorly, he's always been prepared to say so.
Complain about this postI've come to the conclusion that the only purpose of these one-day fixtures is to fill empty sports slots on tv channels. The England team certainly seem to have lost interest in them and, as a consequence, so have I.
Complain about this postThe excuse By Flintoff that the wicket was the cause of the English Batting collapse caused no end of laughter here as we had just seen a 20/20 interstate match on the same pitch where the batsmen scored at will. The excuses are really getting lame and I suppose the next will be Venus is in conjunction with Mars and the unexpexted Solar Flares are creating winds that knock the bails off. The truth- this and the test team are the worst teams that England has produced in 100 years and no amount of pathetic excuses will change that fact.
Complain about this postAustralians are poor winners BBB???
What would you call the open bus parade, handing out of gongs, BBC sports personality awards and the number of books spewed out by everyone that was attached to the 2005 team??? That only just won 2-1.
Complain about this postQ. What's the definition of optimism??
A. An English batsman wearing sunscreen.
Complain about this postAnne,
Lewis left the field after his overs because he had a strain, which you would know had you bothered to read any of the post match reports in detail.
And gloat all you want Anne, please just try and do it with a hint of intelligence, if you can.
Complain about this postwhy is nixon an automatic choice....anyone explain please
the team are missing read's skill behind the stumps and surely he might have done better with the bat
it seems Fletcher is determined to neglect the superior keeper in the squad for wishful runs from inferior stumpers.
Complain about this postOK everybody, lets look to the positives that can come from this tour of Australia.
At least the team will have had time to work on their sun tans before heading to the Carribean and the WC.
Except the batsmen who don't spend enough time in the middle.
Complain about this postEngland lack batsmen who can "hit" the ball. How many batsmen in the England team are actually capable of clearing the ropes (apart from Pietersen and Flintoff)? Classic example was the Ed Joyce "flick" to long on where he was caught against New Zealand. Lot of wrist and forearms and no shoulders.
Complain about this postCricket has changed over the years and it is the unorthodox batsman who can make a difference these days. Bowlers have now perfected the technique of getting the orthodox "straight-bat" out.
England need to change if they have to do well in One-Day cricket.
I note with despair that Fletcher is basing his a recovery in English ODI form on Vaughan.
I love Vaughan to bits, but he is not better an ODI player than Hussein, who clearly wasn't good enough. Under both Nass, and Vaughan (and indeed Stewart before them) England have been woeful. Because the can't bat quickly enough.
It isn't about slogging, it's about scoring at a resonable rate to keep the pressure off. Yet Strauss, Bell, Vaughan (and now Collingwood) put so much pressure on themselves by scoring slowly that it's inevitable that they get out to awful slogs.
The best ODI players, like Ponting and Hussey make sure that, even if they are finding batting difficult, the keep the scorecard ticking over. Sure, they can slog, but they can also nick singles.
Strauss and Colly both have strike rates of about 50% in this series. And Vaughan's ODI average of 28, and strike rate of 69% isn't going to take England forward.
We need to find 6 batsman with the technique to play at ODI level. I reckon we have three proven players, in KP, FF and Colly (when on form). Tresco, if mentally fit, is a must, but I don't think he'll ever play for England again.
Can we find 3 English batsmen who can cut it in ODIs? Benning, Shah and Bopara must be worth a look, surely? And by 'look' I mean 20-30 games, not 2 or 3.
Forget about Ramps, Nixon and Vaughan. England aren't going to win this world cup in a million years. We need to plan for the next one. Lets get going now.
Complain about this postWhen will Duncan Fletcher stop making excuses for a dismal performance by the England team overall and take some of the blame?
Complain about this postHe speaks highly of Vaughan yet Vaughan’s one record does not stand up to serious scrutiny. It is time they both retired. I seem to recall that Australia played in at least 2 of the recent one day matches minus their key pace attack.
Also why can’t you put Flintoff's wickets in perspective? I was at the match and one was taken with a massive heave in an attempt to boost the run rate. Others were simply tail enders.
If players being picked because of class in Test Cricket in one dayers why is Hoggard being made an exception should open bowling in my opinion with Anderson, additionally why has every one forgotten about Yardy he is hard to bowl to because of unauthordox movement at cresae and hard to face baecuse of his quick bouncy spin bowling. My team would be;
Loye
Vaughan
Bell
KP
Flintoff
Collingwood
Foster
Yardy
Hoggard
Anderson
Lewis/ Panesar dependent on pitch
Take Dalrymple, Prior, Shah and Broad as other members of the WC squad, letting Strauss rest between test series so can show why he is such a great TEST batsman and letting players like Bopara and Plunkett a bit more time to mature before being England regulars in a few years time
Complain about this postGood Suggestions there mate. Andy Flower, Stuart Law, Henry Olonga...now they could form the nucleus of a good team. Shayne Drahm, although he's a rugby player could probably bowl a bit. I've lived here for 6 years and used to be a handy medium pacer what about giving me a go??
Complain about this postengland have no idea what they are doing they need to go bak to the drwring bored
Complain about this postDuncan Fletcher seems to always have excuses for everything England do wrong.He is fast becoming the man with a thousands excuses.The funny thing is if England happen to find a bit of form and have a good world cup he will be the first one to boast about his coaching abilities, but at the end of the day I ask when he is finished his coaching stint for England how many countries will be lining up for his signature?Not many I suggest.
Complain about this postThe English fans, judging from most of the comments posted this summer, are almost as bad as their team.
"Even NZ are beating us!" say the patronising English.
Reality check: you are the 8th ranked side in one-day cricket.
In the history of one-day cricket between the 2 nations NZ have won 26 / England have won 26.
Complain about this postTime to stop pretending that you've been thrashing us for years - hey, we won your Tri-series the last time we were over there.
What's our population: 4 million. You don't rate us, so we'll rate ourselves. We won't earn your respect through winning but boy it'll feel good knowing the Aussies are watching you squirm.
I grew up in the under-arm era, loathing the 'cheating' Aussies. Now, most Kiwi's love seeing the haughty & condescending English getting thrashed. You deride one day cricket as the 'pyjama game', and winge when you get obliterated playing it. Your attitude stinks.
What a strange nation - your humour is bizzare - full of obscure smart alec references & self flagellation - there's a whiff of inbreeding about it. Are you a nation of clones?
And to think I supported you during the Ashes - never again.
I tend to agree with the chap who thinks Nixon isn't that bad a choice. Whilst I also agree that Read is the better keeper, the difference between the two as far as runs might go isn't all that great, but Nixon has something the other keepers don't. He'a got an attitude. He's niggley and always at the batsman. You could see the Australian batsmen would prefer somone else behind them, someone ,more benign. He gets under their skin and takes an edge off them. I do think this is worth something. They've already started calling him "motormouth" as some kind of put down, so you can see where their minds are at, and of course they always forget that the biggest "motormouth" of them all has just retired.
Complain about this postNixon despite his age is fit, keen and will do better as the team does better....one hopes.
Aussie sunshine,
Complain about this postthe inaneness of your post coupled with it's spelling confirms everything the English have always thought about you people in the colonies.
Jolly good show Aaron, what! Yars really good post. "Self flagilation", yars jolly good! Keep it up, we really enjoy seeing how far you chaps have come along, and in such a short space of time to. What ho, spiffing!
Complain about this postI must say you chaps in the colonies have really taken to this cricket thing, what! And actually writing too! wonderful thing this electricity hey, hmmm? Yars, keep it going, jolly good show.
WELL DONE!!!
I think the England team should be happy that their bowling attack seems to be more settled.
That's progress.
Obviously the batting is a long way from sorted.
The important thing is not to muck up the bowling again whilst fixing the batting.
Don't select bowlers to strengthen the batting attack.
Don't select a wicket-keeper to strengthen the batting attack.
Don't expect the all-rounder (Flintoff) to score the bulk of the runs.
Complain about this postTrescothick's decision not to take part in this summer's cricket is looking like a wise one.
Harmison knew when he had had enough.
Likewise, Vaughan appears to recognize a good time to be injured.
Do you think Pietersen was actually hoping for time out when he charged McGrath ?
;-)
Complain about this postThe thing about Nixon -apart from being a very average cricket player-is that he may well get under the skin of opposing players, but only because he has achieved nothing in the game.
Good players will not respect a player who is rubbish and then sledges as if to suggest he has actually achieved something in the game.
It makes him look like a joke, but more importantly, it makes his team a joke for not shutting him up, especially when they are on the receiving end of a hiding every match.
But posters like ‘mike’ think he has a place in the team for this ability alone. Ignore the fact he can’t bat and is only adequate with the gloves.
But this is the English cricket team we are talking about...
Complain about this postAussie Jeff,
My last word on this because there are far bigger issues to discuss on this British web site.
England celebrated so much after Ashes '05 because it was such a huge achievement to beat such a strong Australian team. It was not bad winning or gloating, it was celebration. I agree that MBEs were over the top but that is an example of Tony Blair's government wanting to get involved in every success so they look good.
The difference is that our celebrations did not extend to saying "ya boo sucks Aussies, we beat you, you losers", as you and so many of your compatriots have been doing.
I don't know how old you are Jeff, I only hope for your countrymen's reputation that you are a young teenager, as you have a lot to learn about clear thinking and analysis.
'Nuff said.
BBB
Complain about this postIn my opinion, England's biggest worry is the captaincy. I think that should England have another change for the position, Strauss should be given a chance. Flintoff, is without a doubt the biggest player in this current team but if we are to see Freddie amongst the winners, he needs to concentrate solely on his batting and bowling and nothing else. Yes, it does sound very selfish, and somewhat crazy, but Andrew Flintoff will need to let go of the captaincy and just play his natural game.
Complain about this postWe all saw what he could do when he was not captain, against NZ, and we need more of that.
As much as I feel very sad saying this, maybe Fletchers time at the top is nearing an end.
This fact may have been lost amidst the fact that England lost, but New Zealand currently have a very strong bowling attack.
The Australians struggled against them on Sunday night, and that was without Bond, one of their best.
Daniel Vettori is one of the best spinners in the world. You rarely see him dominated. Generally if you charge him, you get out.
England should be very wary of this team.
The way they will beat them is by batting cautiously early in the innings and keeping wickets in hand. Amass runs with singles and good running.
Attack N.Z. where they are weakest - their batting.
Complain about this postNice one Aaron, what a witty and perceptive man you are. Maybe you could supply a list of the greats of New Zealand culture, art, history and literature....... ( not including your missus, Delilah the ewe).
England are currently rubbish at cricket, most of us know and accept it. Fletcher has to go, but most importantly the team need to front up and stop behaving like 4 year old girls.
Complain about this postI think that Duncan Fletcher - who I believe to be an excellent coach - has failed to get the balance of the One Day side right.
One Day cricket is about innovation, dynamism and the ability to score quickly. I don't see enough of this in the England side. Andrew Strauss, Ian Bell, Michael Vaughan, Ed Joyce and Paul Collingwood are all too similar - accumulators, nudgers and nurdlers.
We have big hitters - Flintoff and Pietersen - but there is an important distinction that Fletcher must make between powerful cricketers and individuals with a high strike rate. Damien Martyn never relied upon power but such was his innovation, technique and abilty that his career ODI strike rate was 78.
In short whilst Bell, Strauss, Vaughan et al. have succeeded at Test Level, with solid technique and high levels of concentration and application this IS NOT ENOUGH in the One Day format. There is a space, perhpas two, for such a cricketer but other more dynamic cricketers, I believe, merit inclusion.
In particular I would make a case of Owais Shah who is unconventional, unorthodox but has a strong domestic record in One Day cricket and scores very quickly. He has the talent to succeed at the highest level.
Finally I wish that the experiment with 'bid part' one-day players would end. I understand the attraction of multi-dimensional cricketers - but fail to understand - when we possess a world-class all rounder in Andrew Flintoff - the need to try and find a less qualified second. Alex Whaf, Ricki Clarke, Jamie Dalyrmple to not merit a place in the side on either the strength of their batter or bolwing - therefore they shouldn't be included. There is little advantage in picking Dalrymple - who is a far better batsman than he is a bowler - and batting him at 9. Thus far his bolwing as 'got away with it' to an extent. He will be found out - that I am sure.
I think I should finish before discussing the wicket-keeping situation - but suffice to say that Chris Read - whilst not good enough technically to play Test Cricket - should undoubtedly by in the one-day side due to his clean striking, glovework and domestic one day record.
Ian
Complain about this postOh BBB,
I was here in London when England scraped in to win in 2005. To say that the English celebrated with class is quite laughable. The celebrations were a one finger salute to the Australians and that is why the Australians were determined to destroy England this time. If only your fellow country men had a somewhat lower key celebration then the Australians would not have been so determined in winning 5 nil.
BBB, could you tell me when the boys arrive back in Heathrow so I can get Freddy to sign his new book on Ashes '07 which I am waiting to come out shortly.
Nuff said.
Complain about this postAs an Aussie, it makes me laugh to read Duncan Fletcher's reaction to the ODI losses and the 5-0 thrashing. Talk about being in denial. There'd be more more credibility in just owning up to all the mistakes and poor planning than trying to find a silver lining. The tactics of the one-day team are a disgrace.
Want to hear the latest joke? English sport.
Why is it that whenever England suceed in a sport they rest on their laurels, get complacent and then sink faster than a lead balloon?
eg.
- Win 1966 World Cup then fail to qualify for 74 and 78.
- Win 2003 rugby world cup then fall in a heap and almost ranked last of the major rugby nations.
- Win Ashes 2005 then get whipped 5-0 16 months later.
MBEs for winning one Ashes series? Talk about mediocre, setting a low bar. What a joke.
Complain about this postFancy if our Socceroos beat England again next time they meet. Will probably happen too, in 2010 I hope. And if anyone has a problem with my comments, I'll be happy meet you on Australia Day at The Rocks in Sydney to sort out our differences.
Jimbo
Why do you want to talk about these subjects on a cricket site?
Go onto another site and post about these subjects.
Feeling a little insecure about the cricket team are we?
Ok then. Shall we talk about the UK and their Rates of crime, their rates of STDs, their child poverty rates, their Obesity rates, binge drinking levels-all of which are the highest or some of the highest in Europe and the developed world.
Why don't we talk about the millions of chavs in the UK who can't speak the language (innit etc). While those from Oz and NZ may not speak perfect English you can at least understand them.
How about we discuss the violence and crime in the UK, and how some city centres are more like third world countries on a Friday and Saturday night.
What about how petty crime is an actual job for millions, and how your Police force stands around and watches while it happens-Devon Beach anyone.
But seeing you are banging on about culture then let’s talk about it then. How about contemporary culture?
Given that new world countries are barley 200 years old, then we can’t be expected to compare with a history that goes far beyond ours now can we? But posters on these sites always go on about culture from many moons ago. What about the last 50 years and culture in your lifetimes?
I will not talk about NZ here but I will talk about Australia. Have a look at the past winners of the Booker literary prizes or any of the other major literary awards. We stack up very well indeed. Shall we compare major award winners over the last 10-15 years in Cinema-actors, movies, directors etc. Again we do very well. Dance and Classical music again littered with Australians throughout the world as principal dancers, conductors, and musicians in major Symphony Orchestra, and national ballets.
Of course you are going to have a far more varied and longer history in the arts and culture than Australia and NZ. Look at the size of your population, your position to Europe etc. But in reality the majority of UK and its citizens are into Jade Goody and reality TV not Shakespeare, Keats and Byron. So have a look at your own backyard before you comment.
It amazes me when people post about culture and the Arts on a sporting site just to score points. It is stereotypical and petty.
Complain about this postYeah, take it on the chin BBB. We had to.
Complain about this postEvery time I check this blob there is someone writing about Read, Read,and Read. Read my blank.Read played in the last two ashes test ,what were the results.We lost, at least we won the ashes back with Geraint Jones.Matt Prior must be given the gloves in both the test and one day games.Read,Read,Read,my blank.
Complain about this postDo you by any chance live in the UK Dave? Judging by your in-depth knowledge of UK current affairs, I would say so. Either that or you have an unusual interest in current affairs on the other side of the world.
I fully appreciate that this is a sporting site but was merely highlighting the fact that Aus and NZ define themselves more by sport than more established countries do - it is more critical to your self-image. As a consequence you are more motivated and committed to success. England are still stuck in the "it's the taking part that counts" mentality. I don't feel especially sefl-conscious about the latest cricketing debacle either, dissapointed yes, but like most of us (not the press or the awarders of MBEs admittedly) I just like to see a good contest. We aren't getting that at the moment and there is nobody to blame for that other than ourselves and better quality opposition.
And my sincerest apologies for my ignorance of the fact that Australia has a zero crime rate, no race riots, 100% literacy and is renowned the world over as the apogee of cultural endeavour. And cheers by the way for the rotary washing line - a truly wondrous invention.
Complain about this post"Why isn't Ramprakash in the team?"
First Class avg; 51. Test avg; 27.
List A avg; 39. ODI avg; 26.
Had his chance/s, didn't take it/them. On the other hand, anyone trumpeting Ramps for England should be totally behind the inclusion of Nixon, who was something like 5th on the county batting lists last year...
Steph Luck - your team bats to 9 because it has 12 players in. While I'd advocate this as a possible solution to England's woes I suspect the opposition and umpires might object ;^)
Why has no-one mentioned the obvious problem - Dalrymple only bowled 3 overs and did nothing with the bat. While he looked the part last summer (one of few ODI positives) Collingwood seems to have found a bit of form with the ball, and I'm not sure we need a "number 8" while Colly's got his bowling going. So, with much regret, I reckon we need to drop Dalrymple for the time being and let Colly take on the responsibilty of being 5th bowler proper. That way we can get an extra batsman in (and Bell / Vaughn / KP(when fit) can provide backup bowling if needed), letting Freddy drop to 7.
At least the bowling was OK in this one, besides Dalrymple's 3 overs. Why Colly and Monty didn't bowl out I'll never know...
Complain about this postMy question is why arent the Aussies given MBE's like the English?
Complain about this postThere must be a story in why Read has been so badly put upon by Fletcher. Whay are none of the many journalists telling us what it is?
Complain about this postEngland players should not be picked for ODI's on their Test Match ability, players like Andrew Strauss have not performed in ODI's since before the Sri Lanka series. Tha team i would pick for England's first world Cup match would be:
Complain about this post1. Mal Loye
2. Marcus Trescothick/Darren Maddy
3. Michael Vaughan (just because of his captaincy)
4. Kevin Pietersen
5. Ravi Bopara
6. Andrew Flintoff
7. Paul Nixon
8. Jamie Dalrymple
9. Chris Tremlett
10. Monty Panesar
11. Jimmy Anderson
I agree with most comments Fltcher to go after world cup too many errors made Wrong selections at start of tour then re-appoints flintoff as captain after a poor performance captaining in ashes Bob Woolmer for coach 2007
Complain about this postI'm fed up of being positive. I want to cry.
Complain about this postBBB,
The English conducted themselves well after their victory, did they? That's great to hear. Well done them!
Of course, that wasn't my experience when I was there at the time. Oh no, not my experience at all. Perhaps I was in the wrong part of London.
BBB, it's time to get over your delusion. The English behaved appallingly after their Ashes victory, and it wasn't anything to do with respecting their opposition. It was cheap and common triumphalism, and believe me, following that, the English (cricket team and supporters) deserve every sneer that comes their way, and more.
It's a huge laugh to see the English derided the lack of Australian sportsmanship and the way the the Australians are graceless in victory. I'm sorry, but after '05 you don't have a leg to stand on. And with regard to sportsmanship, well, you've not had a leg to stand on since that Jardine turkey did his best to gut the game of cricket.
"Oh", I hear our angered English friends respond, "It's about time you stopped living in the past. That was then, and this is now!"
Quite right. Do let me know when you've dismantled Nelson's Column, won't you?
Complain about this postjimbo
Australia is not without its problems-far from it. I am just pointing out that modern day UK is far from a Cultural Renaissance. All of the statistics that I quoted, are significantly lower in Australia-yet according to many here we are backward. You really need to look at your entire population not just 10 percent of it.
The UK press like to inform its readers that we are defined by our sporting success, but then so too is the UK-what with all the football fans. Sport plays a big part in Australia, but as many posters point out, we do not 'go over the top' with sporting celebrations.
Indeed, their is an argument that the UK takes sport more seriously, what with all the MBEs, Knighthoods etc. We do not furnish out sporting stars with such adulation-never have. To recieve such an award you need to display excellence over a long period.
Make as many jokes as you want, but we do very well in all cultural endeavours given our size. As I said, go away and do some research and this will be confirmed. Don't make lazy judgements.
I love the UK, but it is the so called 'elite attitutes' that imply the UK is vastly superior in all and sundry, that really does annoy people.
As for your cricket team I wish everyone would stop blaming Fletcher. As much as it pleases me to see that smug smile wiped off his face, he is batting for England, or fielding, or bowling.
The problem is your players. Both the current team and your lack of depth. They are not as good as many people think-particulary the press.
Complain about this postI am so sick of English cricket at the moment that I really can't be bothered paying attention to it until it's worth watching again - the tests this summer.
I had BBC Cricket as my homepage but no longer, I am simply fed up of hearing all the ifs, maybes, 'hopefullys'', excuses, self delusion, straw clutching and constant talking of a good game from the England camp, and the continued never ending dismal failure that keeps following it. We have one one miserable game on this tour which we as good as tossed away in the process with the same old errors.
You cannot defend or make excuses for 9-1. Abject, rubbish effort for any team. Full stop.
Yours disgusted.
Complain about this postIf the players you pick arent working try someone else. Whats wrong with using hoggard - england's best bowler in the tests and try broad and bopara - they couldnt do any worse. I I had my way I would hoesewhip that malingerer Harmison back to the colonies and if he still refused to play never pick him to represent his country again.some of our players need to buck up their ideas - playing against australia is not like playing with the fags after prep
ps to mr bored etc i wonder how your latest posts line up againast all the boasting we heard before the first test in brisbane?
Complain about this post"10:18 AM on 24 Jan 2007, mike wrote: Aussie sunshine,
the inaneness of your post coupled with it's spelling confirms everything the English have always thought about you people in the colonies."
Mike,
Do you need a hug? Australia will be a republic soon so you English people wont need to worry about us small "colonies". lmfao... and then we'll build up a large army and invade England and then we'll teach the English how to play the gentlemen’s game of cricket so that we can have decent games against you’s, and Aussies are more gentlemen like too.
Ps; How’s your weather? It’s about 28 degrees here in QLD and it’s only 8am, going to the beach soon…..
Complain about this postI once hit the ball into the water in a game of beach cricket and my great-grandfather was welsh.
Please accept my application for captain of the English cricket team.
Yours Sincerely
Edward Scissorhands
Complain about this postJames #109
Part of the reason there is so much bitterness towards Fletcher and Flintoff this time around is the delusion that you 'thumped' Australia last time around. I don't know how many people would call 2-1 with the 2 wins being the tightest tests in Ashes history as being a thumping but I suspect that they would all be English. The fact of the matter is that England's beating Australia was the wonderful sporting phenomena known as an upset. If you learned to accept it for what it was rather than delude yourselves during 15 months of gloating that you entering an era of utter domination, then when you lost next time around you wouldn't feel the need to make excuses and call for everyone's head. (Fletcher and the selectors haven't become idiots in the last 15 months any more than Ponting and Buchanan became geniuses.) You might even be capable of displaying the sportsmanship I've heard English people claiming but seldom displaying.
Jimbo #183.
So you're trying to claim the intellectual high-ground while taking a cheap shot about a clothesline on a cricket blog. Since I can only assume that you are following Martin Johnson's lead of assuming Australian technological accomplishments begin and end with a clothesline then consider your sarcastic apology for your ignorance accepted because your ignorance is truly immense.
Since the start of the Ashes I've read numerous articles and posts from Englishmen critisising every aspect of Australian life and culture (when they'll admit there is one). At the same time we hear how confident English people are about themselves. A little incongruous, no?
Complain about this postTeam England will NOT qualify for the CB Finals and will need to go back to the drawing board before embarking on the wasteful trip to the Caribbean.
Complain about this postAussie sunshine, you had the chance to become a republic a few years ago and you bottled it.
Complain about this postPS I lived in QLD for many years and about the only thing you can do is go to the beach.
this england team is the worst of all time there a realy bunch of losers.
bell is not a one day player nixon this guy cant bat to save is life.
and whats happend to strauss hes had a shocker of a tour.
england to win the world cup not with this bunch of losers..
everybody says get rid of the coach its not the coach batting out in the middle its these losers who to get rid of..
Complain about this postConcerning Andrew Strauss's lack of form... it has to be remembered that he has had several absolutely terrible umpire's decisions called against him. I for one simply do not understand HOW the umpire can have called a couple of them..... they were obvious to even my old eyes...
Complain about this postand some of the umpires are just TOO OLD and
stubborn...why do they keep them on when thier eyesight and hearing are obviously 'not the best'. The young Australian umpire beeing used
for the One Day games is excellent. Seems to be
extreemly fair. Never thought that I'd say that about an Aussie..... thier desire to WIN WIN WIN..often without grace is the norm. At least
the arrogance of Warne and McGrath will soon
have dissapeared...can't wait for Lee to dissapear also. What an attitude!!!
"... the inaneness of your post coupled with it's spelling confirms everything the English have always thought about you people in the colonies."
Mike, if you're going to criticise a post for being inane and poorly-spelled, at least make an effort yourself.
The word is "its", not "it's". Your hypocrisy and false notions of superiority confirm everything the non-English have always thought about you smelly people in England.
Complain about this postNothing like a good bit of banter Dave.
I'd be the last to pretend the UK are superior at all and sundry, but as you chaps have the cricket sewn up this year and what with your patented "sunny weather" too, we have to respond with old chestnuts of our own, and judging by your reaction they still have plenty of mileage left in them!
As for the MBEs, they were typical of Blair - a cheap media shot to get his face in the papers. I can't think of anyone who really felt they deserved them. Yes their was some triumphalism at the time, but the Aussies are certainly no better in that regard in my experience. Credit where it is due, the Australian team deserve them far more for years at the top. Still not convinced by Germaine Greer and Sir Les Patterson though no matter what you say.
In the UK sport is given a lot of attention but winning is not. There is not enough competitve spirit fostered in schools etc. As I say "it's the taking part that counts" mentality is doing us no favours. Neither does the press to which you are either a hero or a zero.
Anyway I'm off and i'm sure your customers are getting thirsty.... Still can't work out why so many Australians are on this message board. Not to gloat, surely? The very idea!
Complain about this post