The End Is Nigh
Australia's savage batting made a mockery of England's mediocre first innings in Perth.
And by losing Andrew Strauss, albeit debatably, the tourists need a cricketing miracle from 19-1, chasing 557 to win the match.
Back in the real world, it's more about trying to hold out for two full days to keep the series alive.
PLAYER OF THE DAY
Three centuries were scored as Australia rattled up 408 runs in only 76 overs.
All were very different with Mike Hussey's a workmanlike affair, Michael Clarke's unbeaten 135 full of youthful enthusiasm and some wonderful strokes and Adam Gilchrist's onslaught a cruel attack on England's bowlers who were wilting at the end of a broiling day in the field.
Clarke's was the best innings of the three, but Gilchrist's attack brightened an afternoon that was reeking of inevitability.
He had one ball from which to score three runs to beat Viv Richards' record century from 56 deliveries, but Matthew Hoggard pushed it wide of the off-stump, and Gilchrist has to make do with only the second fastest century in Test history.
KEY MOMENT
With the day taking such a predictable course, these are thin on the ground.
England needed early wickets, and Matthew Hayden was lucky to survive an lbw appeal from Steve Harmison when he was on 65, and Mike Hussey should have been given out caught at silly-point off Monty Panesar shortly before lunch.
But in the grand scheme of things, these are trifling - England had already blown it in the first innings.
TALKING POINT
Australia's declaration seemed to be a bold move - but it appears to have come about by mistake.
Before they launched their assault, Gilchrist and Clarke tried to get word from the dressing room about the tactics.
They asked, by sign language, whether Ricky Ponting wanted to declare before the close, and the reply was supposed to be: 'no!' This was misinterpreted to 'yes', and Gilchrist ran amok, presumably to Ponting's great surprise.
But it was the right thing to do, and an exhausted Andrew Strauss was given out lbw to the fourth ball of England’s reply.
PROSPECTS FOR DAY FOUR
Weather forecast: fine. Therefore: going, going, gone. Last year's victory is now a distant and battered memory.
It was fun whilst it lasted ;-).
Complain about this postHi Guys
Will someone please tell me why Andrew Flintoff is the captain? Surely, as the talisman of English cricket he should be someone the Captain can turn to if needs be. If the talisman of the team is also the Captain, who does he turn to.
With all respect, being Captain and talisman never seems to work. Ian Botham was the most amazing player except when he was Captain.
Give the armband to Strauss or Collingwood (yes, why not) and see the differenc ein our main man.
I will still be up at 5.00 tomorrow morning even with the situation we are in.
THanks for your time.
Complain about this postThat is really funny, that Gilchrist went berserk to such wonderful effect because he thought that Ponting wanted to declare. He probably would have poddled around and got out for a small score if he had thought otherwise.
I wondered why Michael Clarke suddenly started bashing the ball about as well. It seemed so unneccesary, but now it is clear.
Complain about this postWell this was always going to be the result when the whole tour started on the wrong foot and then the guys went from bad to worse!! What for a total capitualtion tomorrow, oh dear I just know what I will see when I get up, the Ashes in the hands of those that deserve it who wanted it far more than we did. As for Jones, please go!!
Complain about this postTo all you doomongers, England will prevail, we have two of the highest batting averages in Colingwood and Peterson, yes it is back to the walls stuff but we can do it. Providing we have our never say die attitude, in many sporting wins in the past have been acheived by the " we will not just lie down we have to fight and when we fight we will win" COME ON ENGLAND, WE CAN DO IT!!! COME ON THE BARMY ARMY GET BEHIND OUR LADS, WE WILL ACHEIVE, FOR ENDLAND"
Complain about this postWere you really expecting anything different!? Is it any wonder at all!? Well, at least it is just another game in which we have been taught we do not have a God-given right to excel in ( first football; then rugby; now this!). What's next?
Complain about this postAnd I expect coach Duncan Fletcher to say... Yeah, we played well for 2 days.. we had 2 unlucky sessions and 1 poor one.
Besides, Fletcher's comments on Monty were wounding, to say the least. Maybe he should become a successful politician?
Complain about this postThis series has highlighted how poor England are as a team. On paper, as individuals they look a strong side, but they just can't perform as a team. Since winning the Ashes last year what have they done, lost a series 2-0, scraped a draw, and won at home against a significantly weakened Pakistan side who had at least 3 of their main bowlers missing. The writing's been on the wall for a long time. And let's not forget that even last year, Australia were weakened by an unfit McGrath and Gillespie who was on his way out.
Complain about this postNo matter what a good opposition does, Australia always look like they'll do better, but when a good opposition faces England, you feel that England are in trouble - thats the difference between the two and a big worry for England because this series is over and the future might get even worse!
A nuggety century each from Bell and Cook, a boycottesque vigil from Collingwood, the fastest double century ever from KP, Flintoff goes cheaply but Jones (in his last test match ever) rattles off a superb 150 to seal it for England. 2-1 and everything to play for.
Complain about this postHopefully next time England win the Ashes they avoid the hysteria of 2005 and don't decend into victory parades and gongs for everyone from one test wonders to the man driving the bus.
As JA rightly says, that is a distant, battered and now slightly red faced memory.
England went up a mountain in 2005, raeched the peak and have since then rolled right back down the otherside.
Europe won the Ryder Cup in 1985 and changed the very nature of the event for all time. England's 2005 Ashes win now looks like one of these sporting flukes to rank alongside Buster Douglas beating Mike Tyson, Foinavon winning the Grand National, Wimbledon triumphing in the FA Cup and Partick Thistle beating Celtic's great side of the 60s and 70s in one League Cup final.
Complain about this postThe series was lost on the last day of the second test. This is a bad day for world cricket. I noticed that the "popular" UK newspapers sports pages are now all about football, with the cricket only now getting minor coverage several pages in. With Australia's growing presence on the football stage, I would imagine a similar fate will befall Cricket out there too. One only has to look at Rugby League to see what will happen in the comming years.
Cricket needed this to be an evebly matched contest, I am afraid that more nails have been knocked into cricket's coffin.
Complain about this postTake nothing away from the Australian team. They are consistently better than England in the sessions that really count.
And give nothing to the English selectors, whose decisions have been woeful throughout (and before the tour when England's best batsman, with a good record against Australia, was left on the dance floor).
But we need to face up to the awfulness of the umpiring, which has made what could have been a close series one-sided. Of course it sounds like sour grapes. But the dreadful decision against Strauss in Adelaide cost England a draw - until that point, Strauss and Bell were not in trouble and the match was petering out. And the lbw decision today was the second worst I have seen in 30 years (Constant giving Knott lbw to a round the wicket short ball from Marshall I think being the worst). The TV has shown that almost every ball goes over the stumps; Slater and others have been saying you can leave the ball on length at the WACA; the ball hits Strauss on the front foot above the knee roll, with Lee bowling a brand new ball at over 90 mph; and Koertzen thinks there is no doubt it would hit the wicket. You don't need hawkeye to know it is not out. That is not just unlucky - it is a disgraceful decision against England's most likely batsman to do well on this pitch.
Complain about this postWhat would you rather pay and see? Geoffrey Boycott bat for two days to save a match or the Aussies scoring 400 in a day - whatever nationality you are? Credit where it's due please.
Complain about this postThere's been a lot of comments about England copping a raw deal from the umpires.
For all you chaps complaining, I'd just like you to review the 2005 Ashes series and you will see twice as many appalling decisions going against the Aussies.
As Aggers has said, "in the grand scheme of things, these are trifling". If you are complaining about the umpiring, it's probably because you are losing. At the end of the day, it won't decide the Ashes one way or another.
Stiff upper lip chaps.
Complain about this postEngland have said all the right things and done none of them. 5-0.
Complain about this postThe track seems to be fine for batting. Neglecting "prospects" and previous performances, it is quite practicallly possible to score these runs. England have already done it once in Adelaide. Although, its a diffferent ball game with the last 2 days of a cracking wicket and the mighty warne. Unlikely but not unachievable.
Complain about this postRob Broadhurst wrote:
"Hi Guys
Will someone please tell me why Andrew Flintoff is the captain?"
It didn't make sense at all... Sajid bowled just 7 out of 100 overs! and he was supposed to be a bowler!! Why didn't captain Flintoff go with an extra batsman, and Colly / KP bowl Sajid's overs?
Flintoff as captain, selector and bowling all rounder at no. 6 have cost England dearliy this tour... Jones could be the scapegoat however.
Complain about this postAs u said aggers england squandered a golden chance during their first innings and now it all seems just a formality. English bowlers have in fact done a good job eventhough the score board paints a different picture.
Hope Geriant Jones comes out with a better perfomance in the second innings. With his fate all but sealed probably he will be relaxed this time around...
Complain about this postI think Rod might have a point here. Maybe Flintoff is carrying too much of a burden.
Complain about this postWe should not be too downhearted though. England won the Ashes last year - they can't hang on to them forever and if, as is acknowledged, they play well and get beaten by the greatest team in the world at the moment (much as it pains me to say), then that's the way it goes.
I wonder what Australia will be like without Warne, McGrath, Ponting Gilchrist Hayden and Langer... next time maybe.
Did anyone actually think England could win again?
If you did... Here's for hoping? *cough*
Go Aus.
Complain about this postI hear that Ashley Giles has had to return home due to his wife's illness. He has been unfairly pilloried recently. I agree that he should never have played in this Ashes series but he did well in 2005, particularly at Trent Bridge to help win that test. I hope things work out for him and his wife and wish him well for the future as I suspect that he has played his last test for England.
England didn't fluke last years win, they were clearly the better side (although even then they nearly threw it away). Unfortunately Australia are clearly the better side now. Why can't we ever be listening to TMS when England are in such a strong position and thrashing the ball away, like today..........
Complain about this post"The harder you work the luckier you get." Australia's Ashes defence started with a boot camp several months ago. Ours a couple of practise matches before the Brisbane test!
The fat lady is singing and only a miracle can save us now
Complain about this postThis is depressing. And so predictable. OK, Australia are a great side and deserve to win the series but apart from Collingwood, KP, Hoggard and Monty our players have been very poor. I predict that we will be all out by tea tomorrow and the serious gloating will begin.
I am scheduled to fly out to Oz on Thursday to watch the Melbourne and Sydney Tests but I am considering not going. Not because we have lost. Its because I wanted to watch good cricket. To watch England play in Oz has been a dream of mine since I was a small boy. But hey ho, I should have thought about that when I booked the trip a year ago.
On the positive side of things England can only improve. Hopefully Panesar will turn out to be world class and we will find a good fast bowler to replace Anderson and Mahmood.
Complain about this postOk. We are getting stuffed. But how many decisions have gone against England in this test. Strauss x 2 pluss to more dodgy decisions when the Aussies were batting today. It doesnt help to have umpires making crucial mistakes when you are playing the best team in the world!!
Complain about this post@ No.5 Jim Mannion....
When you say 'many sporting wins', '...we have to fight..', and 'never-say-die attitude', what exactly are you on about? It's time to face the truth as painful as it may be...I feel we have to stop burying our heads in the sand, conveniently using our sense of patriotism to blind us to the realities on ground. 'England aren't good enough!!' Sheesh...
Complain about this posteven if england lucks out and get a draw here... does anyone seriously think they'll win the last 2 game to draw the series?
it's only a question whether it's 5-0 or if they are lucky enough 2-0
Complain about this postA tough day in the field for the English, it's not easy grinding away in 36 degree heat, the bowlers in the first 2 sessions were quite good but Gilly's knock absolutely took the stuffing out of them. Full credit to Monty, not once did he let his enthusiasm drop, he is the real find for England on this tour and we aussies are looking forward to seeing him back on these shores in 4 years time. Memo England, now is the time to bat for 2 days and win this test to save the series, nearly 4 centuries from the aussies why can't you do the unthinkable?, if the situation was reversed Ponting and co would be fighting until the last ball, why? because it's the Australian way.
Complain about this postIt might all soon be over, but in fairness I would still rather be over there feeling despondent than sitting here.
Complain about this postPost 8: Dont agree with the 'significantly weakened Pakistan side' , we had equal number of injuries and at one point had our entire Ashes bowling line up out.
Complain about this postWhy is it that people aren't blaming the UMPIRES enough? Last year the West Indies constantly got bad decisions, at the end of that series, they very gentlemenly complained but the damage was done. I used to blame Bowden for being extremely pro-Aussie, except for the 05 Ashes when decisions actually went England's way, which is the ONLY series in recent memory I can recall the Aussies getting the rough end of the stick.
Complain about this postNow in a day when both Hayden and Hussey were clearly out - but not given, at moments which would have made huge inroads into the Aussies' batting, we have the farce of Koertzen giving Strauss out for the 2nd time in the match when he clearly wasn't!!!! That's 3 bad decisions in a row for Strauss, what a disgrace.
PLEASE BRING ON THE FULL USE OF TECHNOLOGY - they use it for run-outs to the exact frame of the video camera, why not use hawkeye and hotspots - it's truly time. I'm sick of cricket being spoilt by wrong decisions which are based predictably on the following: the propensity of the Aust team to appeal loud and raucously at any half-chance, which seems to eventually turn the umpires' minds to jelly.
This has beem pathetic. Poor selection, poor batting, poor bowling have handed the Ashes back. I think it is more a case of us loosing then actually being beaten. We know our players are good enough, but they dont look as if they are willing to engage themselves enough!
Here's to another 16 years of failure!
Complain about this postWell I could go over the same ground again. No preparation, wrong squad and team selection, wrong captain. But I will not. We need to score at 3 an over for 180 overs and we win; so 3 centurains minimum please stand forward; Cook, Bell and Flintoff. You owe England a lot of runs!
Complain about this postFor the future; lets hope Dalrymple gets in the team, now that Giles has retired, like Trescothick from test cricket.
Suggested 4th test team, in bat order:
Strauss, or Cook, or Vaughan - any 2 from 3.
Bell, Pietersen, Collingwood, Flintoff, Dalrymple, Read, Harmison, Panesar, Hoggard.
zambungo
It just goes to prove how many bandwagon fans there are since the last series.
No matter what the the topic of the post you have plently of people who are serious (a lot are not serious) who are thinking England are a chance to chase 550.
This is despite it being a 2nd dig chase, despite it being a world record and despite the past experiences of your batting line up.
And if Richard thinks that Strauss was the 2nd worst LBW decision he has seen, then he has watched very little cricket indeed.
The fact the Strauss was stupid enough to not play a shot says a lot about the English mindset-no idea.
Complain about this postI've said it before and I'll say it again: 'Hell hath no fury like an Aussie cricket team hell bent on regaining the Ashes.'
I've been watching the Ashes for along time now, my earliest memory is of David Gower's 215 some 25 years ago when the Poms took the Urn from us. Sleeples nights down under watching the saga unfold as a young child, heady summers full of untold Pommie anhialation metered out by a relentless Aussie line up in the nineties, but never have I seen such an awesome batting display as I witnessed today.
Over the course of the last few weeks I have read comments pertaining to Australia's being rattled by the England attack, the most recent being last night. Perhaps foot in mouth pie is on the menu in some households?!
Taking nothing away from England who played to the best of thier ability, alas they just aren't good enough. One series win in 18 years doesn't make you world beaters.
Some may complain about various dubious umpiring decisions, but I ask you to look back to the 2005 series when on several occasions, at key moments such decisions went against Australia and handed victory to the Poms; eg Kasper at Edgebaston and the Katich LBW's. Not to mention Brett Lee being erroneously no balled after clean bowling Freddy. Or maybe it was KP. Either way it was a bum decision.
England have been out played, out classed and flayed into submission. It takes more than an open top bus ride through London and a few OBE's to make you the best cricketing team in the world, hey.
Go home, regroup and get your act together. Stop handing out honours at the drop of a hat a la Rugby World Cup style and wake up to the fact that it's consistency at the top that counts.
We might be over the hill, and ageing but we're still number one!
Complain about this postJim Mannion,
You need to get into the real world my friend. 3-0. Ashes gone. End of story.
Complain about this postKoetzen is the worst umpire on the elete pannel. But let us not just think he has given bad decisions against England.
Three times in 2005 he gave Martyn out LBW when he had clearly hit the ball. His first innings howler to give McGrath out caught off his shoulder (the one attached to the arm NOT holding the bat) was every bit as bad as Stauss's today.
He is just a rank rotten umpire that should be joining Mr Hair on gardening leaving.
Complain about this postOh Aggers, you sounded so down towards the end of play today.
The whole thing has become so disappointing. I, along with cricket lovers everywhere, have been looking forward to this since last summer. But, because of poor selection, preparation and leadership from the coach & ECB, we are left listening to Aussies rubbing our noses in it (it must be dreadfull for you boys out there!).
As you said Aggers, one day a team will chase down this sort of total and, being the infernal optimist that I am, I'll be up at 3.30am (I'm in France) hoping that now is the time. But even if they don't manage it, come on England, give us something to cheer about...make them Aussies work harder than they have ever had to work to win a match.
And finally, cheer up Aggers. You, Mike Selvey and the others are brightening up a very wet and grey winter here in Normandy.
Complain about this postLiving in Perth at 9.00am it was over 95f & when the english team was on the WACA ground it was over 127f on the ground.All club cricket here was called off today because it was boiling hot.So we can feel for the lads after being on the field after 8 hours being cooked like a turkey.No wonder when Gilchrist started to hit out at the end of the day our guys could not move to do anything about it but watch & pray that this day match will come quickly to an end.
Complain about this postStrauss can feel a tad unlucky. Having said that, he padded up to a fullish delivery on the stumps. Benefit of any doubt in such a case switches from batsmen to bowler, since you are padding up. This is a fundamental rule you learn when you are like 9 years old.
You don't hear the Aussies complaining when Ponting is given out when it is hitting the very top of the stumps (on Hawkeye that is) suggesting an element of doubt which should in turn go to the batsmen, right? I don't think you can complain about either decision to be honest.
And let's not forget last series' Ashes where Marto and Katich copped some shockers...as well as McGrath copping a terrible decision in the first innings. It all evens out (ps I didnt see conclusive evidence with Hussey's dismissal today and Mrs Aleem took a while to raise his finger, its either out or not...shouldnt have to think about it).
I think it's a massive cop out to have a go at Umpiring decisions. And if you honestly believe that if Strauss hadn't been given out in Adelaide it would have been a draw, you clearly do not know cricket.
Complain about this postFor the record, I really hope England get something out of this match, if only to make the Aussies wait another match to reclaim the Ashes.
England are in this situation once again because some of the players have taken their place in the team for granted. I won't name any names, but those who were chosen because they are supposedly better with the bat have been appalling. they need to realise that the bowlers can only do so much, and that relying on two people to score 50+ is not an option. they need to take the burden away from the likes of KP, freddie and collingwood. if number 10 & 11 forms the highest partnership of the innings, someone's not doing their job properly.
Complain about this postTo all those who think Strauss's LBW decision was a shocker and somehow symbolises how you have been "ripped off" - get real! The guy didn't even offer a shot! It was plumb in front, the only debate being over the height. Come off it, you will almost ALWAYS be given LBW if you do that, even in schoolboy cricket!
Then add in the complete and utter demolition of the English bowling attack by Hussey, Clarke and Gilchrist (I couldn't help but sit there giggling for the last 20 minutes), and what, precisely, do you guys expect?
Complain about this postBad umpiring decisions are most certainly not trifling incidents, Mr Agnew. Australia had the worst of a couple of crucial decisions in England when they lost the ashes. Here, well, there's nothing like knowing the decisions are aways going to go your way to boost the old confidence - or destroy the other team's. Shame, really. Australia are quite good enough not to need a twelfth man. They already got all the help they needed from England's selectors.
Complain about this postThe balance of the English side is all wrong. It is, I think, a widely held belief that Australia have the perfect balance in their team. It includes 3 seamers/quicks and a spinner. Others in the side can bowl bits and pieces.
Why then do England perservere with 4 frontline quicks and a spinner? I could understand it when Simon Jones was around. Jones, Harmison, Hoggard and Flintoff is without doubt the strongest pace attack in test cricket today.
But Jones isn't fit, yet we still pick 4 quicks. The 4th paceman is just making up the numbers. A combined reading of Anderson and Mahmood provides figures of Played 3, 2 wickets for 390 runs. Well I think any professional cricketer could match those figures. But there is no place in Test cricket for "any professional cricketer".
Flintoff should bat at 7 replicating Gilchrist's role who is really the Australian all-rounder and England should bring in another batsman. Our bowling attack would then comprise Hoggard, Harmison, Flintoff and Panesar. Bell, Collingwood and Pietersen can always chip in with a few overs if necessary.
I've said it all along, but Geraint Jones must go. He proves at almost every available opportunity that he is not up to the task. But no more on that. Enough has been said already.
England's strongest XI right now is probably:-
Strauss
Cook
Bell
Pietersen
Collingwood
Joyce/Ramprakash
Flintoff
Read
Hoggard
Harmison
Panesar
I mention Ramps knowing he has failed in the past. Playing now he has nothing to lose so that should free his mind. In addition he was the top run scorer in County Cricket last year (for the 2nd year in a row?) at a fantastic average and a great strike rate.
DON'T PLAY A 4TH SEAMER FOR THE SAKE OF IT. SELECT PLAYERS ON MERIT.
Complain about this postAs an Aussie, I dont think anyone in England really appreciates how much the loss meant to Australia. All matches since then have been in preparation for retribution. One hopes that it will be swift and painless tomorrow and then some of the old blokes can really enjoy themselves in Melbourne and Sydney.
Complain about this postOK. So I'm feeling really grumpy today. I invest far too much of my emotional well-being into the fortunes of England's cricket team and it isn't good for me.
So what I have to say is probably not as objective an opinion as it should be but I'm hoping there's a grain of truth in it somewhere.
Basically, I'm feeling really cheesed off with the umpiring and it seems to me that there has to be a better way of doing this "giving them out" thing.
In my 30-odd years of watching cricket I have observed that there does seem to be an emotional tide that runs through a game that gives force to the dominating team and strikes fear into the dominated team.
This, I appreciate, is part of the beauty of the game. But what I have also observed is that this "tide" also appears to affect the umpires too to the extent that they - for example - give a batsman out caught behind when a player from the dominated team is batting and who misses the ball completely, and then gives a batsman from the dominating team not out when they are caught having actually hit the ball. Similarly shouts for LBW are turned down when presented by the dominated team and then upheld when presented by the dominators, irrespective of the eventual destination of the ball.
Now I guess this could all be sour grapes on my part but I do think that umpires do follow the mood of the match with their decision making. They are not, therefore, as objective as they should be given the role they play in the success or failure of a team and, indeed, the careers of individual players.
I guess there's no way round this without resorting entirely to technology and I certainly don't advocate that.
It's just a pity that games like this can be tipped so far towards one team or another by this psychological shift in the umpires and that really shouldn't be the case if the game is to be adjudicated in a fair way.
Not only that but it can turn an enthralling contest into a massacre, as we have seen over the last couple of days.
Complain about this postWell everyone what a complete series of the worst selection decisions of all time.
1) Andrew Srauss should have been skipper after a great summer against Pakistan.
2) Monty Panesar has proved he is going to give the reputation of the great spinners a run for their money and by the way he batted much better than his senior colleagues. Thank God we have a breath of fresh air in all this carnage.
3) Sorry Geraint you cannot keep are bat where is Read.
Good bye Fletcher, thanks for the good work and can we have a British coach give me Boycott!!!
We are now playing for pride lets hope we can stretch the test into 5 days however I am not placing any bets. Australia really deserve the little Urn they have been unstoppable
Nick Bennett
Complain about this postEilat
How boring. You've always got something to say about the umpire, don't you?
Both sides get their fair share of luck and their unfair share of bad decisions.
Were you having a whinge 18 months ago when Damien Martyn was given out twice for LBW when he clearly hit the ball or Simon Katich was given out LBW at a crucial stage of the Trent Bridge test when the ball was going six inches over the stumps and six inches down leg?
No. You were too busy handing out OBEs and citizenships.
Those decisions effectively ended Marto's and Katich's test careers.
May I recommend a big cup of STFU? The English/South African/New Guinean team is getting a belting because they're missing some key players and they're not good enough.
Complain about this postIn response to Stewart Dawes, post 29, do I detect a minor case of sour grapes? Get over it, hey. We had to last year and you must do the same. And besides you were gonna lose anyways...
Complain about this postI told you guys yesterday, Australia will score 500 + and that GREEDYYY SHANE WILL BOWL TWO WHOLE DAYS WITH HIS LUST FOR WICKETS! I hate his lust! But England will not lose the match though that is definate. Why either rain will interrupt the match or England will draw.(Somebody get me coffee I think I am still drunk from last night) Winning looks indifferent with only 3 batsmen capable of scoring considering flintoff was one time luck last year in ashes. He looks miserable and tensed in field.He getting paid for his sins by not picking monty/read and the sin is killing his game.
Complain about this postBest wishes to Ashley Giles. I really do hope that his wife is better for the New Year. He may not be the best spinner in World cricket, but he wins the award for nice guy hands down.
Complain about this postQuote: "Why is it that people aren't blaming the UMPIRES enough? " (comment 29 StewardDawes)
Because they don't want to sound like whinging poms.
Complain about this postTwo thoughts at present. Firstly, I worry for what this type of hammering will do for what's most a young side with years left in it (Monty, Cooke, Strauss, Bell, KP ...). Sometimes these things happen to an ageing team and it's a signal to turn to the young ones - but these guys are the best we've got. Cricket is a confidence game and we can only hope that this series doesn't take us back to 10 years ago when we lacked the self-belief to beat ANY of the other major countries.
Secondly, this has been a BAD series and for many reasons: injuries and absences (people not playing - Jones, Vaughan, Tres, as well as people playing off the back of a limited season or worse); poor preparation, poor selection and more. Some bad luck but mostly self-inflicted. And we've fallen at the last hurdle in terms of moving up in the game - beating the Aussies in Oz. But personally I still think the Fletcher years have been the best England has had since the early 80s and Botham/Brearley. Let's not forget beating WI and SA home and away and winning in the sub-continent as we built towards the Ashes last year. That doesn't make me an apologist for Fletcher going forwards - but I think English cricket under Hussain and Vaughan & Fletcher restored a lot of pride to a team that was perpetually disappointing for a long time before that, and we should still feel good about that even as we try to put this series behind us.
Complain about this postWhy do ALL the matches in a cricket series need to be played? In a baseball series of 5 (or 7) games, they stop after one team has won the series, no reason to play the rest. In tennis the last sets are not played if the match is won.
Complain about this postBut in cricket the series continues and its all about 'moral victories' and try outs. It's a sham and insult to the paying spectator, who cares if England win the 5th test and Geraint Jones scores a triple century to justify Fletcher's faith in him for the world cup and next summer?
Sorry England. Fielding in 36 degree heat against quality batting is a big challenge, but it is a normal part of Australian cricket at all levels. Our junior and grade systems, within each State, breed the "fight and determination" so clearly shown in Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth. We all know the consequence of adopting the "soft" option(s). Well done last time but the "mountain" is now very steep. Good luck.
Complain about this postTo those complaining about umpiring decisions - it is swings and roundabouts. Glenn McGrath was "caught" off his shoulder in Aus 1st innings and Ponting's lbw was debatable. But in the scheme of things the decisions (whether right or wrong) haven't realy effected the final results of any of the tests. And doing so is all "smoke and mirrors" to try and make excuses for the results.
I think Eng/Wales selections were wrong again in this test. Anderson showed enough in the warm up game at the WACA to be selected. The 2nd change for the 3rd test should have been Read in for Jones - again after the preformances in the WACA WA v Eng/Wales match.
Complain about this postPremature declaration! Englind to win by 4 wickets.
Complain about this postHave you noticed how focussed the Australians are?
Complain about this postEngland won well last time but they and their supporters felt they had to belittle the Australian players at the time and since. Comments like the "ageing team", Gilchrist's clear weaknesses, Hayden - "flat track bully" and so on. These players are champions over many long series. When they lost, they lost honourably. With less gloating and less disrespect, you might not have stirred them so much. But this is a team for the ages - and when stung they would always have come back and with a vengeance. We saw today just this in action. This is not an easy pitch - Haydon and Ponting grafted as did Hussey. Clarke then built on that and Gilly cashed in. Enjoy - it is quite a team!
I wonder how many autobiographies by the England players and coaches will be released over the next year?
And how many of last years cashing in while they can books will be in bargain buckets in the January sales?
They should have another parade in London so we can all have a chance to pelt them with rotten vegetables for a rotten display all winter.
Complain about this postI'm sufficiently old to remember England being all out for 52 in Bradman's final test match in 1948 but their performance in their second innings of this Second Test rankled far more. How can a side score over six hundred (declared) in one innings and be out for peanuts in the next? There is a serious over estimation of England's calibre (the number of wide deliveries, for example, compared with those by Australia) and the presence of some damaging ego in the side (I can imagine Kevin Pieterson describing a photograph "There's me congratulating Collingwood reaching a double century"). I was as thrilled as anyone when we regained the Ashes last year but we should have borne in mind that the two actual Test wins then were a little shopworn and far from emphatic.
Complain about this postYou must tell us where you get those drugs, Jim MAnnion. Expect another sorry England capitulation. Although maybe batting phenomenon Jones will get a double-century and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Or maybe he'll stick with his average and get 11.
Complain about this postAs bad as England are and as good as the Aussies are, it doesn't help matters when the umpires are giving England batters out when they're not and Aussie batters safe when they are out. Over the course of one test England seem to be getting 3-4 dubious outs, and the Aussies 3-4 dubious not outs. It's hard to win when you the other team regardless as to whether they are better or not, is given the advantage of 6-8 wickets.
Complain about this postReally, one can blame the umps til the cows come home but when it comes down to it, you need to bowl sides out to win test matches. So far England have done that twice in three tests. You can blame that more on you own selectors than 3rd party umpires. A 33% or 1 innings in 3 strike rate isn't going to win any favours with your fans, let alone an Ashes series.
Complain about this postDid this England Team ever believe that they could retain the Ashes? From management down they have looked gutless without any fire in their bellies or any sense of self belief. In a word! Woeful!!
Complain about this postThis whole series debacle can be traced back to one crucial bad decision. Which was? To take the captaincy away from Andrew Strauss and give it back to Flintoff. Flintoff was coming back from injury, is an all-rounder, so already has enough to do on the pitch, is young to be doing all of that anyway, and Andrew Strauss was winning tests as captain, after a bit of a shaky start.
So what did they do? The result is what we're being treated to (sic) now. Strauss's confidence was hit. Flintoff, stressed up, gets a recurrence of his injury and makes heaps of errors.
Then there's leaving Panisar out, not getting enough practice before Brisbane, and so on. With all that, it's amazing that England scored 550 at Adelaid, which is almost the only really good thing to come out of it all so far. But without one man, Collingwood, it would have been another sorry first innings tale there, too.
Sooo depressing.
Flintoff, please would you do the decent thing after this test and hand the captaincy back to Strauss?
Complain about this postMakes me grin from ear to ear reading this post...as one of many ex pat aussies safely esconed north of the border here in the UK I too had to sit & stew last series when the super hyped (somethings never change) english media & fans went into overdrive over a 2 run series win complete with OBE's & open top bus rides!!
Complain about this postI mean... really! ?
now it gives me great joy to read the waffle about bad decisions from the ump(it IS perfectly legitimate to be given out for not offering a shot you know!!??) amongst the very poor selection & ruderless captaincy....Test cricket demands constant application,something,like it or not you cannot provide away from home & barely manage at home.....Also be prepared for our next generation after the current stalwarts depart,unlike you guys we will not rest on our laurels & wait for someone to do it for us.
Proud of the Aussies as always!!
You know where England lost it? After day two i remember reading a Flintoff comment that went along the lines of 'Hopefully we can still get the draw here and go for the two final tests'. Two days up and a team is fighting for a draw. Is this what England calls its never say die attitude?
Complain about this posti tld evry1 to play monty frm da start
Complain about this postMONTY4ASHES
buhhh ohh nooo.. giles is our best batter.. wellmonty's great drive down da ground proves otherwise bludi selectors dat dnt select reeli buhh jus rake in da money and host sum parties 4 famous ppl and sponserers 4 money!!!
well now dat they are gone i believe the team shud quit after we lose and cum bak home 4 xmas.. 4 sum 'quality time' heyyy
wahh dyu reckon?
The umpiring for this test has been substandard.
The fact that Strauss was given out twice ( when he was not out) by the same umpire Rudi Koertzen and added to the same umpire lousy decision giving Hussey not out is ridiculous. Also remember the last day in the previous test, when again there were 3 lousy decisions against English Batsmen mostly by the same umpire Rudi.
Too say that this has no impact on the game does not add up, ICC has to look into removing Rudi Koertzen from the elite panel list and get a more younger, efficient umpire.
Aussie players dont offer chances and when the umpiring is so bad, you cannot blame England as i think they did play well on a hot tiring day.
Aussies may be the clear superior team here but poor umpiring has cast a shadown on a otherwise superb Aussie performance.
Complain about this postI have a plan. If none of us talk of this ever again it will be like it never happened! It could work.
Complain about this postHayden, Ponting, Hussey, Clarke and Gilchrist have all shown it’s possible to score runs on this pitch. There are two days play, I bet Australia would believe they were in with a chance of winning from this position and they’d play with the determination to do so. On the face of it there doesn’t seem much likelihood that our boys will do so. I hope that someone will read the riot act to the batsmen tomorrow morning and get it into their stubborn heads that they must leave their silly strokes and selfish play back in the pavilion when they walk out onto the field. It’s a team game and they’re playing for their country, are they even remotely familiar with terms such as honour and pride? If they put up a fight and lose to what is evidently a talented team that’s disappointing but no cause for shame or criticism. If they capitulate in another miserably embarrassing collapse they should be made to beg and grovel to the cameras. It would be a marvellous effort to win or even draw from this position. It might help to move Harmison and Panesar up the batting order before Flintoff and Jones to give support to whoever is left from the earlier batsmen. Maybe we could erect a couple of spikes just outside the boundary rope and make it known that the head of the first batsman to squander his wicket with a careless stroke would be ceremonially stuck on it. Given their current cavalier attitude and inability to learn from their mistakes we might need more spikes! It might concentrate their minds, and may solve some of the selection issues!
I’d wish I could have watched Gilchrist’s rapid century but marooned in Belgium I have no access to TV coverage and curse the BBC for not providing live commentary or even the video highlights via the internet! Given the number of Brits abroad either temporarily or permanently it must surely be possible to remedy this. I can’t see the non-cricketing countries kicking up a fuss or charging extortionate amounts to allow this.
PS I recommend Belgium to anyone who can’t stand this torture any more. 100’s of good, strong beers, excellent food, exquisite chocolates, friendly, civilised natives who’ve no idea about cricket, Christmas markets, mulled wine, pretty young women and I’ve yet to meet a taunting Aussie!
Complain about this postThe umpiring for this test has been substandard.
The fact that Strauss was given out twice ( when he was not out) by the same umpire Rudi Koertzen and added to the same umpire lousy decision giving Hussey not out is ridiculous. Also remember the last day in the previous test, when again there were 3 lousy decisions against English Batsmen mostly by the same umpire Rudi.
Too say that this has no impact on the game does not add up, ICC has to look into removing Rudi Koertzen from the elite panel list and get a more younger, efficient umpire.
Aussie players dont offer chances and when the umpiring is so bad, you cannot blame England as i think they did play well on a hot tiring day.
Aussies may be the clear superior team here but poor umpiring has cast a shadow on a otherwise superb Aussie performance.
Complain about this post@ post 9
according to you...
COOK 100+
BELL 100+
COLLINGWOOD a "vigil"
PIETERSEN 200+
Flintoff "cheaply"
JONES 150+
Lets see... thats 550 runs + a few because they won't get out on 100, 100, 200 and 150 respectively
hmmm OH look...england only need 558 to win...
looks like Collingwoods vigil will net him about 8 runs...FANTASTIC...
Complain about this postHas anyone else noticed that if you try to write "Ashes" using predictive text is comes out as "Cries"? Says it all, really.
Complain about this postto those (richard was a notable at 12) whinging and moaning about strauss' decision today should look at all the others that have been given without offering a shot. you stick the bat above your head, get hit on the pad, expect no sympathy. batsmen know that there is no benefit of the doubt not offering. the umpires have been consistent since the first test.
I would suspect that even the english top order batsmen know that you use a bat to hit the ball. the flies in perth are not that bad and using your bat to waft them off is overkill.
strauss was an idiot not to offer a shot. too bad, so sad.
Complain about this postI've read a few posts here and over the last few days saying he bowlers were doing ok... rubbish! this is the third test and Oz have not ben bowled out twice in a test yet.
Going on about bad umpiring decisions is nothing but sour grapes. Every team since tests began have been on the end of bad decisions, it's part of cricket. The use of technoloy for lbw is not practicle due to the nature of a crictet pitch and how it wears over the five days, the state and age of the ball and the speed of the delivery. Last year Oz was on the end of most of the bad decisions including one that possibly change the resuld of the series.
The simple fact is England are not good enough at this time and it's not likely to change tomorrow.
Complain about this postI have just been looking through the BBCs archived material about Ashes 2005 ('greatest Ashes ever?')..and it all seems so bitterly long ago...sob..sob..bwah! bwah!!
Complain about this postEngland should think twice before being handed out MBE's. That result was a fluke and England have been bought back down to earth.
Complain about this postForget about the umpires, forget about the selectors. Its 11 players against 11 players. Whom ever goes out to play needs to have the confidence in himself and his team mates, needs to be hungry for victory and never let a bad bit of luck or seemingly impossible situation stop them from being posative and going out there to win. Impossible wins come from persaverance and faith...see adelaide day 5...English players forget the pressure they applied to Australia in 2005 showed the cracks in the Aussie team. They forgot about the team effort and hard work required, and most of all they forgot that you havent lost a game till the last ball is bowled, no matter what it looks like. They need URGENTLY to review the tapes of 2005 to remind themselves that even the best side can be brittle when played in the right spirit.
Complain about this postIt's a shame that England have been thrashed like this, but not totally unexpected. For me, there have been 3 serious mistakes on the whole tour: Freddie as captain - love the man but he's just not firing and in a way we've lost 2 players because Strauss has obviously taken the rejection hard after such a good job over the summer. Second, the selection of half-fit players was bad for the team and bad for morale. And third, the preparation was woeful, a complete sham. That said, without key players such as Vaughan, Trescothick and Simon Jones, our team is not as good. If all are fit, I seriously think man for man we have a far better team, with a captain who for my mind is the best since MB. My preferred 11:
Complain about this postTresc.
Strauss
Vaughan
Collingwood
KP
Bell
Flintoff
Read
Harmison
Jones
Hoggard
with monty in and out. according to fitness and pitches.
some perspective, please..
Complain about this postto win, england would need 270 each day, a score itself which they couldn't muster in the first innings. that's 3 runs an over all day for 2 whole days, when you know that they'll be playing for survival.
secondly... all the english optimists would rightly fancy their own teams chances of bowling out australia for less than 550 in the last innings, even with their sputtering attack.
fletcher is right, history is sometimes made, but it will not be this english batting line-up, against this bowling line-up.
Sour grapes? Perhaps. Of course you notice the decisions that go against your own team and forget the ones that go in your favour.
But Strauss's decision today WAS a disgrace. I have watched and played cricket for 35 years. You do not expect to be given out just becasue you do not play a shot! You expect to be given out if it is going to hit the wicket! (Fundamental part of LBW is the "W" bit). At the WACA a good length ball from Lee will go over the wicket. Padding up was a perfectly good "shot". Yes, ponting could have got the benefit of the doubt. But with Strauss there should have been no doubt: not out.
Complain about this postHaving been an avid follower of Englands progress for many years I feel emplored to comment on how I feel after yet another day under the sword. EMBARRASSED.
Complain about this postFlintoff and Fletcher must take responsability for the poor tactics used whilst batting and fielding.The captaincy has affected Flintoffs performances to the extent that he should relinquish the roll and concentrate on his fitness and form.
Roger Smith
Wolverhampton
The differences between the two series were such that I'm surprised how many people (myself included) didn't realise a no-contest was nigh-inevitable:
* England were weakened (no Trescothick, no Vaughan, no Simon Jones, Flintoff half-fit) and Australia strengthened (Clark instead of Gillespie, the addition of Andrew Symonds)
* Home advantage changed - and with conditions being so different around the world, home advantage is perhaps more significant in cricket (certainly at international level) than almost any other sport
* Australia have become hungrier, shaken out of whatever complacency they may have possessed when they had a stranglehold on the urn through the events of the last English summer
That alone should have made me realise this series was only going one way. In addition:
* Flintoff has been burdened by the captaincy and his ankle. He is best left to lead by example, although even then his injury has prevented that
Complain about this post* While I could perfectly understand the selection of Giles over Panesar at first, that was because I was assuming Giles would bowl pretty well. He didn't, and I should have guessed as much given the time he's been out
* Harmison has lost all form. He is a very dangerous weapon when he bowls line and length - but he's certainly not done that lately, except for the first innings in Perth
* Above all, the top order have been victim to some poorly-considered shots. England could really use another Boycott...
A bit of a low act by Hoggard when Gilchrist was chasing the world record fastest 100 in a test.
Gilchrist needs a boundary to get his 100, there are eight fielders on the fence, one ball to get the record, and Hoggard bowls it deliberately wide of the wicket.
What a cowardly act. If Gilchrist could hit a boundary with so many fielders set back, he deserved the record.
It was reminiscent (although not as bad) of the Aussies bowling that underarm ball when the Kiwis needed a six to win the match.
Cowardly and unsportsmanlike.
Complain about this postWell, the Ashes have gone.
Complain about this postWe are all pointing fingers here there and everywhere. We have just not taken the opportunities that have certainly been there.
Lets try & do something different fot the last two tests. The batting needs bolstering, Ed Joyce comes in, Mahmood goes out. 4 bowlers with back up from KP, Colly and Bell. I am a Lancashire lad but it says a lot when the captain is only willing to give Mahmmod 10 overs amongst the carnage.
Ed Joyce in, gives him invaluable experience & a challenge to the unchallenged openers. Flintoff at 7, Read (hopefully) at 8 them Harmison, Monty and Hoggy in his rightful place at 11.
Monty's straight drive off Clarke was as classy a shot as you could ever wish to see.
Fletcher must certainly be on borrowed time now.
Oh come on pommies
Why are you so down on your cricket team? You've had a bit of bad luck like you had a bit of good luck 15 months ago. But realistically, you've got good players who have played their guts out over here - but it's easier for an Aussie going to England and playing in 22 degrees than for a lily white pommie to play in 42 degree Perth! Poor ole' Hoggy must've just about died out there.
Monty and Freddy have won a lot of friends with their courage and enthusiasm and we're even tolerating your South African connection (anyone who can give Warne some stick is alright by me). If we can cheer them ... maybe some of you guys should.
I hope your guys come back and make a go of it in the last two games. But in any case they should all be welcomed back - it's been a tough tour.
Oh and by the way Strauss was not out and neither was Hussey (the fourth time at least).
Complain about this postLooks like the Ashes are going back to where they belong.
The Pommie players got so carried away with their own fame and celebrity in Britain after winning last years Ashes, and must have thought that beating the best team in the world made them the best team in the world.
Don't get you hopes up about the next generation of cricketers in Australia either. Look at how our state teams pasted you Poms in the warm ups too!
Complain about this postThese umpiring decisions have cost us the series, wat a disgrace!!!. The series should be 0 - 0
Complain about this postOh my God, as a indifferent fan and watching this series and reading some of these posts, I cannot believe the ignorance of some of you people...England has been out played, Mentally and Phsycologically for the past 3 tests, the comments of.."well, our preparation should have been better", and we had a few guys who were injured, really you open yourselves wide up.. Basically you are getting beaten(slaughtered by a much more proficient, professional, SKILLED team), Sick of the excuses.. well in the first innings 8 of our guys were caught behind/slips, by erratic shots..etc.. Face the Truth..You are not good enough.. sorry to say but Last year was a Once in double decade FLUKE
Complain about this postlook forward to the abuse
what does he have against strauss? there's more to this than meets the eye.
Complain about this postfool me once - shame
fool me twice - shame on you
fool me trice - shame on me
strauss should make a formal protest and demand that all these dubious dismissals be looked at on tape
if ever there was an argument for an appeal process for batsmen it is the appalling decisions given by whatshisface [can't even say his bloody name]. he should be retired forthwith!
I was at the ground today and, as a Perth-based England supporter, it was pretty hard going..if only it was because of the temperatures that were reportedly 54C on the turf.
Take absolutely nothing away from the Aussies, they played like we would like our team to play and fully deserve their impending recovery of the urn.
However, Strauss has been the biggest victim of some dreadful umpiring decisions. If they can use hawkeye in line calls during a tennis match without detracting from the spectacle, it can certainly be used here. Particularly when one (or several) bad decision can have such an impact on the match.
The 'Fanatics', who used to make up for lack of imagination, wit and perseverance by all wearing yellow shirts have clearly been putting some serious work into their patter. Despite the situation, they were pretty amusing today and put up a good challenge to the Barmy Army
Complain about this postMy 13 year old son who is a cricket fanatic asked me why the England team, particularly Flintoff and Strauss, appeared to be laughing and joking as they sat in the team changing room watching our tail end actually showing them how to bat at the end of the 1st innings. Perhaps they should remember how privilaged they are to be in that position and who they are representing. Australia on the other hand have shown the desire and passion to win.
Also, why oh why is there so much resistence to using technology for lbw etc.
Complain about this postEngland do have good Cricket players and they can combine well to form a good team, BUT the one aspect which they will never be better than is quite simple. It is AUSTRALIA.
Complain about this postCan't help thinking back to over the top celebrations, drunken players and civic receptions
Complain about this postwith the prime minister and thinking that the demise had already started at this moment.Anyone agree?
The Ashes were lost when Monty was not included in the first two tests. Who ever left him out wants to be sacked for poor judgement. Also Reid should replace Jones who has been very very poor. I think its going to be very hard to avoid a 5-0 whitewash.
Complain about this postHarmison bowled a tremendous spell in the morning so just blame the umpire. if you poms are willing to take this ashes battering for the last time in a long time, good times for you lot are ahead. This is the last of the aussies golden generation. forget winning this ashes and next time in england with a fit, mature bowling attack you can destroy the aussies to your hearts content. this ashes was never going to be easy. forget this and look long term and mabye with persistence that this england team shows, you can have a golden time say in 4-5 years. like the windie,s aussies will have a slow and steady decline. dont worry, things will get easier, since the talent coming up is no mcgrath or warne.
history will repeat itself and aussies cannot escape it, and the current team knows it.
Complain about this postPete, what is Hoggard supposed to do? Gift Gilly a 4? He is playing for his country and the normal thing is always to try and stop someone getting a century. It wasn't cowardly at all, I am sure it is something the Aussies would do the same in those circumstances.
I wish people would stop moaning about the umpires. Strauss should have played the ball, in real time it looked plumb, the umpire doesn't have access to technology or to that dodgy Hawkeye and nor should he, the game can be slow enough as it is.
Complain about this postEngland had 3 world class batsmen who needed to contribute in a big way. Trescothick's gone home. Poor old Andrew Strauss has been mugged by the umpires and Kevin Peterson's been superb.
Without big runs from these 3 it was always going to be difficult.
Complain about this postOh please! Some deluded people here! #43 says "Jones, Harmison, Hoggard and Flintoff is without doubt the strongest pace attack in test cricket today" one series does not a pace attack make!! How about South Africa with Pollock, Ntini and Nell, Oz with Lee, Mcgrath and Clark, Pakistan with Shoaib, Asif, Gul. All more consistant and just as potent on their day! Hoggard is the only english bowler that maintains form and fitness - and there the problem lies.
Complain about this postI made the comment yesterday about the point of playing Mahmood - and today was more baffling. He bowled his third over after 83 overs!! Thats not giving him a chance to have any impact! If he isn't going to get a go when Australia score 500+ when is he? A wasted player, we'd been better off playing another batsman.
I believe that if Australia - the acknowleged number 1 side in the world - were faced with such a gigantic total to win the match (having lost - shall we say - Hayden for a duck), then they would at best bat out a draw. If England prove me wrong then so much the better, but does it look likely?
Secondly, Panesar (who admittedly bowled "above" himself in the first innings) was made to look ridiculous in the second. He's a good bowler on the right surface, but only average when the pitch has nothing in it for him. But he does try which sets him apart from most of the rest of the team.
Complain about this postHoggard should be praised for bowling the wide bowl that denied Gilchrist the record for the fastest international test century.
If Gilchrist really wanted the test record so bad, he could have chased after the ball, he didn'tt as he wanted to preserve his wicket for his century.
The record belongs to the fearless brave master batsmen Viv Richards and it should be and not belong to a substandard lower order batsman.
Its a mind game and Hoggard didn't fall for it,It is one of the bright moments in a otherwise lacklustre day of cricket.
Complain about this postanother gutless display by england,the team has no mentle toughness or desire to win like the aussies.
time for s change at the top.fletcher to go along with wicketkeeper jones.
if you think things are bad try living over here amongst it all.
Lauire
Complain about this postPom in exile
I remember reading a souvenir broadsheet issue in the 'distant and battered' past. An Australian was passing his congratulations on to the gloating British Public and then said that Australia would be doing a 'Dennis Lillee', apparently a reference to Lilee's long run up before bowling. He invited us, the gloating reader, to look out into the distance and see a snorting Dennis just turning at the top of his run-up ready to wreak revenge. I think hes just bowled a ripping snorter of a brute of a ball!
Complain about this postI am now at the stage where I just cant be botherd with this anymore....Its such a joke and is made worse when freddy will tell us that they got some POSSITIVES out of the game in his ashes losing speach. Wake up!! I've been through the bad years over the last 20 watching cricket on my own cos nobody was interested as England were so poor. But to gather up a frenzied fan base by winning two years ago and then booting eveyone in the .....s with this woefull display is simply wrong. Australia are formidable but all the while Freddy sits smiling to himself. Hang your head. Send England home now...before everyone bails out on England like I am.
Complain about this postGet a grip, Aggers.
Complain about this post2005 will always be a great memory and I'm grateful to all the players on both sides for the entertainment and skill that was provided that summer.
I've never been one to knock Aggers as I've enjoyed his reports over the years....but this summer he has been inaccurate, negative and had conflicting opinions.
If we lose...we lose. Not the end of the world. The aussies will retire one by one and we will emerge again in 2009. Australia have had 2 legend bowlers (same age) together for 15 years...unique luck and great viewing...Ponting's not bad either.
So enjoy their play and skill before it's too late..and learn from their application, drive and achievements. The Ryder Cup tide turned after many years and so has this one..even if the aussies have easily taken these Ashes. As we say in Spain "No pasa nada!"
With the Ashes all but gone after having seen
Complain about this postEngland capitulate once again, I ask myself "what is wrong with English sport?" We've seen our cricket team barely win anything since last summer, the Rugby team is performing worse and worse these days and the footballers hardly covered themselves with glory at the World Cup - we are a nation of underachievers and consistently so. This begs a further question "what can be done about it?" The answer is probably "nothing". It's just something we've got to avoid getting too depressed about.............
Just wondering can someone save me a seat for your ticket tape parade and open bus top tour when you get back home.
Do you guys make your sportsman give back their OBE's, MBE's etc? after they win a test series?
Complain about this postFurther to an above comment regarding 'ashes' coming out in predictive text as 'cries'.
Similarly appropriate is the fact that 'Duncan' comes out as 'Dumban'!
Duncan the Dictator, or Dumban the Dictator . . . take your pick!
Complain about this postHmm..that typo from the guy saying they can still do it then typing 'Endland' - a Freudian slip?
These are full blown 5 day tests and to try and tie it down to one piece of bad luck etc doesnt hang together. Especially when it happens test after test after test. They are being outplayed by a team that has better focus even after a bad session. England (or Endland) have some good players but they just cannot hang together over the piece and there has to be questions over the almost invisible captaincy that is going on.
Its not the players fault but I cant help thinking of the way the media and public these days demand immediate 'greatness'. The previous Ashes lead to honours and ticker tape parades and heroes being made out of a team that is on the whole just a bit better than average.
Complain about this postI'm really enjoying the cricket, seeing the bragging English getting flogged. They are nothing but a second rate team that fluked the Ashes in 2005.
Blaming umpiring decisions, are we? I'm sure Damien Martyn would say he got a few in 2005.
What I enjoy most is Dunc having egg on his face! Can't wait for his resignation or sacking.
Saj Mahmood, what a great player! As for Bell, the Shermanator is such a loser. Jones "The Club Pro" would not make any Australian state team.
Complain about this postThere is nothing to say that England can't put in a couple of gritty centuries and save the day--or even hold out for a draw. Let's face it, both teams scored poorly in the first innings, Australia turned it around, so can England.
And another comment on the umpiring: the umpiring has not been woeful; it's the same level of umpiring seen at most International games. Really, the umpiring in the last Ashes series was worse--or to put it another way, there were more decisions that were clearly wrong.
But, in the scheme of things, a couple of bad decisions (and, guys, both sides got them, don't forget that) don't really matter when a team is being flogged.
Whinging over umpiring does not bring back Ashes. I hope the selectors think more closely on the team next time.
Complain about this postDear Mr Stewart Dawes,
1882 - 2006, that's how long the Ashes have been going without the technology you so desire.
Yes it would been good but your entire rant is ridiculous.
Tired of appeals are we? Get real, appeals are written into the laws of the game.
1st test - comprehensively beaten, 2nd test - amazing display for the Aussies to overcome such a great Eng score, 3rd test after putting the Aussies in a corner Eng come out and bat like school kids. Where is the umpire factor in the great scheme of things?
Well done Aggers for pointing out that those decisions are not what has cost England this tour.
For all those hoping against hope, kudos to you, but you have to figure in the Aussie mentality, they are NOT going to go into the field tomorrow thinking, 'It's OK boys, we've got this one sown up.'
Complain about this postThey are going to try to wrap it up ASAP.
...and Stew, expect a few appeals.
I myself am looking forward to it, go OZ!
Jim,
I couldn't have put it better myself.
Come on END-LAND indeed!
You have the talent but the decsion making both on and off the pitch has been poor at best.
Flintoff looks like a man drowning under the responsiblities of strike bowler, power batsman and inspiring captain.
He is good but he is only one man.
Complain about this postDear Mr Stewart Dawes,
1882 - 2006, that's how long the Ashes have been going without the technology you so desire.
Yes it would been good but your entire rant is ridiculous.
Tired of appeals are we? Get real, appeals are written into the laws of the game.
1st test - comprehensively beaten, 2nd test - amazing display for the Aussies to overcome such a great Eng score, 3rd test after putting the Aussies in a corner Eng come out and bat like school kids. Where is the umpire factor in the great scheme of things?
Well done Aggers for pointing out that those decisions are not what has cost England this tour.
For all those hoping against hope, kudos to you, but you have to figure in the Aussie mentality, they are NOT going to go into the field tomorrow thinking, 'It's OK boys, we've got this one sown up.'
Complain about this postThey are going to try to wrap it up ASAP.
...and Stew, expect a few appeals.
I myself am looking forward to it, go OZ!
If England draw this test they will win the next two and draw the series....trouble is they will be all out tomorrow at tea for 177.
Complain about this postI said it when it was announced and I'll keep saying it....Freddie as captain?....What! The man is an Icon, an inspiration, and a magnificent sportsman....but captain of our national team?....I think not...he does not yet have the experience, maturity, and mot importantly the humbleness for that position....YET....Geoff Boycott might be outspoken, verbose, and has some serious attitude problems, but by golly he speaks the truth when he says the selectors have got it totally wrong and i admire him for that...
Still too late now....the selectors will never learn...they pick the man of the moment, then burn him out....I will never stop supporting our lads but i will never support the current selectors...Barmy army?....more like Barmy management...
Complain about this postQuote:"The record belongs to the fearless brave master batsmen Viv Richards and it should be and not belong to a substandard lower order batsman."
(Greg Hynes - post 98)
Hmm yep, a substandard lower order batsman.
Shows what you know about cricket.
Were you watching the cricket today?
I prefer Richie Benaud's assessment as "the cleanest hitter of a cricket ball I've ever seen".
Incidentally, here is Gilchrist's humble quote...
"I probably wouldn't have wanted a message from the dressing room. Viv deserves that mantle as the fastest hundred."
Complain about this postAndrew Strauss can't feel that bad now. Most of his rellies have now written a blog telling everyone that he wasn't out.
Complain about this postre: umpiring.
a solution for the umpiring detractors.
Complain about this postif you want, award yourselves this match because of the poor umpiring, but then take one away from yourselves the series in england. howzat?
Come on lads, Chins up
It's still do-able
Cook & Bell have scored some great shots to reach 19
- Let's aim for a 100 from each of them
Colly & KP haven't let us down
- Another hundred from each of them
That's most of the work done - 400
Then aim for 50 each from Harmie and Monty - they batted well in the first innings
Then 25 each from GJo and Freddie
All done - Chin up boys
To use an Aust term, "we'll be right" by the end of day tonight when the Glorious English Lions go to battle
Or...maybe KP will get a World Record score of 450??
Complain about this postWhat a bloody shambles.
Complain about this postThe game will be over by tea on day 4. England will end up losing by around 300 or so.
If the Ashes were so important to England, why did you turn up underprepared, play substandard bowlers (Anderson, Mahmood and Giles), a 3rd rate wicket keeper in Jones, and not picking Panesar who is clearly several classes better than Giles.
The difference in the 2 teams is apparent from this comparison. Last year, England play out of their skins, and Australia are off their game - England win narrowly. This year, England off its game, Australia in top form - Australia flogs England ... quite likely 5-0.
Complain about this postIf England had followed the advice of Geoffrey Boycott, the I man , meaning I have done this, I have done that, over and over again, we would not be chasing this total to win or even make a draw, but ohh what a most boring man, do we pay him with our licence fee, or does he do it free, (I can not see him doing anything free), still some of his advice is good . he can't always get it wrong, its called the law of averages.
Complain about this postHaving been given a thorough beating over three tests, I just hope the England captain and players publicly acknowledge the fact.
The pre prepared statements such as "we just had a bad session" or "we competed for 4 days of this test match" are an insult to supporters and undermine the players own credibility.
Accept it graciously.......well beaten by a much better team.
Complain about this postNice to see so many Australians reacting in such a charming and measured way to their success.
Congratulations on regaining the Ashes (as you surely will tomorrow). Now why not go and try to regain some manners. Oh, hang on, you can't regain something you never had.
Complain about this postIts just another example of English amateurishness when it comes to sport .... turn up late, rely on your charismatic player, pick the wrong side (SURELY today finally proves that 4 seamers + 1 spinner is one bowler too many) and get stuffed out of sight by a team of professionals. This tour really has been a shambles from the moment it started.... embarrassing. PLEASE will someone relieve Andrew Flintoff (not "Freddy") of the captaincy and tell him to bat at 7. He needs a dose of reality. Maybe this series will be it. I hope so.
Complain about this postOut of all this mayhem down under,the only person who tells it how it is Geoff boycott,he rightly condems the players who go out and don't perform wether they be batsmen or bowlers.
Complain about this postMost of the commentators seem to be frightened of upsetting the system or critising any of the players.
This current England side are short of the mental ability and skill to inflict any damage on the aussies!!
Cannot see anyway back from this torture that we back home are suffering.
How on earth you can take players to test matches who are way below their form is just beyond me.
Only glad that I did not make the trip down under.
Take care.
Today was tough for England - but fair minded watchers of the game would have to agree that Australia has completely dominated the key periods of the series - whenever they have needed another gear they have found it and blown England clean off the park. Some Dad's Army.
One comment on the supposed harshness of the umpiring......get over it! Perhaps you don't recall some of the shockers that the Aussies copped in 2005 - but you never heard anyway say that it contributed to the result. Strauss has been a little unlucky - however I do recall Ian Chappell once saying that whenever a batsman pads up he is placing his wicket in the umpires hands and despite any harsh call from the umpire he only has himself to blame - he's got a bat for a reason and should be looking to use it! Now whilst the ball is going marginally over the top, padding up to a full, dead straight ball in the first over is complete lunacy - Straussy will be dark over the first innings but will acknowledge that he severely contributed to his own fall in the second. No one can blame Koertzen for giving it out - umpires generally do take a dim view of no shot offered.....
As for Gilchrist - he's a phenomonen unlikely to be seen again - any any Englishman who thought they had his measure was dicing with an absolute champion with a massive stomach for the fight.
Complain about this postTo be honest, the Ashes don't matter anymore, not after the news about the illness of Stine Giles. I just hope everyone rallies round Ashley and his wife. Fingers crossed.
Complain about this postGreg Hynes,
please watch some other sport. In an all time world eleven Gilchrist would be probably one of the few no contest choices in the team.
That "sub-standard lower order batsman" averages over 48 in test cricket, has double centuries and scores very quickly.
Most test sides that have ever been would give Gilchrist a run without hesitation. Jones is a sub-standard lower order batsman, and a crap keeper to boot. See the difference.
Freak
Complain about this postTime to hold people accountable...
How can Mr Duncan keep acting like a hard arrogant nut by defending his selection of giles instead of monty.... G jones instead of read....
The whole ashes hve been ruined by England's selection policies and lack of mental toughness..
what a shame... !!
Its time England get a better coach who atleast shows a tendency to play players on their actual deeds on the field rather than acting as a perfect love child guardian...
Complain about this postTo Ashes 2005 vivid as ever,
Yes the Ryder cup did turn after many years - however only when Europe became involved!! If it had stayed as GB and NI, i dare say the same old results would have continued...
Complain about this postTo Paul Boty - Cricket had its nail in the coffin th minute the ashes were sold to sky, so now even if we did play well most of the population cannot even see it. No wonder the papers dont cover it as only those with sky would care. Why this wasnt made a listed event and show on terrestial i will never know. But oh well.
Complain about this postWe were beaten by the better team, plain and simple. I hope not to hear one excuse from the England camp after this game and series.
Complain about this postRe Roooooned dreams.
Complain about this postWhat about Tennis, Athletics, Swimming, Tiddlywinks etc?
Bring back Lord Vaughn asap. We need his tactical and strategic ability. All rounders like Freddie should be free to concentrate on amassing runs and taking wickets. Its alright for the Aussies as cricket is such a dominant sport for them. Come on England!
Complain about this postGame, set and match. This will probably all be over after tea tomorrow as England bat like a one day side (and not a good one). Collingwood aside no one seems capable of patiently building an innings. Some awful shots in their 1st innings, really bad. Pietersen may be entertainining but a wild slog for 70 and out was not was required in the circumstances. A shame, but I am afraid Australia are simply just too good.
Complain about this postWe've been outclassed, no question, but I would like to remind our cocky friends down under how badly you missed McGrath in 2005 when he was injured for a couple of tests.
We are missing our captain,(Vaughan), Trescothick and Simon Jones (who gave you a torrid time). On top of this Flintoff is only operating at around 50%. Huge losses to a team that was always going to find it tough even with a full strength side.
Excuses? Yes
Damn fine ones though...
Complain about this postEngland team has been overhyped ever since the ashes victory. An average team dubbed as world champs... England are also rans nothing more. I hope that the team and fans repsect other nations they play rather than dismissing them and only seem to be concentrating one event.
Complain about this postA charming and witty fellow calling himself Kim Hughes' tear wrote thus:
"Nice to see so many Australians reacting in such a charming and measured way to their success."
I suspect that this statement was a facetious one, given the bitterness that followed in his post.
Irony is a beautiful thing. Perhaps we should take England's example of how to behave in a charming and measured way to success. Perhaps we too should have open-topped bus parades, and shower our players and officials with honours.
Here's some advice for you, Mr Tears - grow up.
Complain about this postShould the inevitable happen in Perth, on return to the UK, all members of this great England test side should be awarded knighthoods by the outgoing Blair as a last gesture of defiance towards the British people and cricketing public. The Zimbabwean coach and Graveney, the great test player and chairman of selectors both made Peers of the Realm.
Complain about this postYou have to question the England setup on a number of fronts, the decision not to give Troy Cooley the required contract was just the start of a series of blunders from the england management.... At the end of series which i'll be amazed if we manage to win any of the remaining two games, there has to be a very serious look at whether the current management can stay in post... Fletcher has got to go and quick.. we need an improved and sensible approach to selection and given the debacles that have surrounded this series i hope that we've learnt some important lessons...
let's concede the fact that we've been comprehensively outplayed by the better side... albeit with a little bit of help from our coach...
Any thoughts of winning this game, come on let's wake up ... i'll be amazed if we make it through to lunch let alone chase down 550! I think dunc needs to keep on taking medicine...
Complain about this postGilchrists hundred was nothing special. Its easy to score runs when youv'e got aloads of runs on the board - even Freddie looked good in Adelaide 1st innings. I actually think he will have a bad World cup and will be crying like a girl when Aus lose to SA in the Final.
Complain about this postCongrats to Australia, they deserve it.
They worked so much harder in preparation it's of no surprise that they have basically beaten us.
Cricket is such a confidence and pressure game and Australia were obviously so much more up for this series than we were.
I seriously think Flintoff shouldnt be captain, it should be someone with fight and bollo**s, ie: Collingwood. He also needs to be tactically aware, which I dont think Flintoff is. I get the impression that Collingwood has more upstairs and would make a good captain.
Also, if we're not going to bowl Saj then why play him? Play another batter instead. There are plenty of good batters in county cricket that would love to come into the test side and would be a hell of a lot more successful than flintoff and jones are, for example.
Drop Jones. Read might not make many more runs than him but at least he's take more wickets. Jones is just very very low on confidence and form. If we were making runs i'd keep him, but he simply isnt.
All said and done, the better team is winning. We need to stop making excuses and realise that winning teams need hard work and preparation. They need fight and grit and determination. I get the impression all harmi wants is to go back to newcastle for a bottle of brown in his local.
Complain about this postRUMOUR HAS IT THAT A SECOND ASHES URN WILL BE COMMISSIONED AS ONCE AGAIN, ENGLISH CRICKET IS DEAD!
HOW MANY DAYS UNTIL THE 2009 ASHES?
Complain about this postBeing a Kent supporter for many years, during discussions everyone is totaly baffled why Jones is in the County side let alone the National one....His replacement (up to last season) O'Brien was regarded better than him. That's what the true KENT followers have been saying for the past 2 years.....Sad but true !
Complain about this postWe got trounced, spectacularly. But on hearing Ashley Giles news I've decided I don't really care.
Complain about this postMore important things to think about just now.
Its such a shame that its turned out like this given the expectations we all clung on to right up to the third day of the second test... it seems like the England of old has returned but we shouldn't be too disheartened. We've had sessions where we've shown shades of last years ashes side BUT... the bowling attack has too often let us down and the top four, Collingwood excepted, has been a real let down.
If Monty had played from the start and Harmison had bowled even as well as he finally has this test then the pressure on Freddie wouldn't have been half as bad. Add a fit Simon Jones and we might just have been competitive.
I just hope that the last two tests dont become a damp squib, itd be good to end the series on a positive note because we haven't become a bad side overnight. If only for Pieterson we need to show some kind of spine over the next couple of days cos he cant do it on his own! And for the fans... the only thing between the two sides as far as i can see is the balls of the Aussies, and our lack thereof!!!!
Complain about this postseanoff,
There is no doubt Viv Richards is in altogether a different level of class, style than Gilchrist and rightly deserves his record to stand. Gilchrist has plenty of flaws in his batting style and even though a agressive player, he is not in the same league as Richards or any other top order leading batsmen.
freak
Complain about this postIt would be really nice to be positive about the events in Australia .. but for me ,whilst you cannot question the committment or the hurt that the players are showing, the team have been let down once again by appearing not to be prepared enough... the Aussies have a much greater intensity about them despite the pre ashes rumours of unsettlement within the camp... Our batting has been poor... the bowlers have twice now put us in a position to 1 push for a win , 2 to draw the last test.. only for the batting to let it go.... we should only be 1-0 down and have just finished our innings(1st) having scored 450 and the Aussies looking down the barrel of defeat... instead we are going to go 3-0 down and wanting to come home.
Its a shame, English Cricket has advanced immeaseurably in the last 4-5 years where we can consider ourselves to be in the top 2-3 sides in the World.... I just hope this spanking doesnt send us back 10yrs....
Complain about this postSurely nobody can be surprised at how easily Australia are beating England - and will continue to do so in the last two test matches. After we won the Ashes in the summer of 2005, which we did so by the skin of our teeth, against an Australia playing below their best, we have done nothing. We have struggled against all other sides in test matches and one day internationals (except an injury hit Pakistan in England). We would have needed to be at our very best just to give the determined Aussies a game, and obviously we are not.
Complain about this postI feel sorry for Strauss, particularly as it seems that he has copped 3 bad decisions in a row. I did not see the LBW as I am currently in the land of Mordor where no cricket is shown. But I have to tell you that we Antipodeans were told in no uncertain terms to take our medicine in 2005 when Martyn and Katich received similar shockers. Someone here says that Strauss' dismissial was the 2nd worst he's seen in 30 years. Well, Katich's in 2005 may well have lost us the test and by extension, the series. It pitched on leg. That's not just a bad decision, it's a case of not knowing the rules.
So commiserations on that point. Also commiserations on the absence of Vaughn, Trescothick and Simon Jones. Further to that, commiserations on the presence of G. Jones. Although there is some self-righteous glee in seeing the Ashes come back so soon and so convincingly, a strong contest would be far better to watch. If I could watch, that is.
Look for a tight contest again in England when we've had a few retirements. But hold off with the MBE's. They look a bit silly this week.
Complain about this postThose complaining about the umpiring decisions are right, there have been some shocking ones.
Any team playing against Aussie can't afford to have the bulk of the bad ones go against them.
Ask Stephen Fleming or Graeme Smith, umpires in Aussie fold to pressure/reputations (or is it the heat?) and give (or don't give) far too many 'shockers' against the visitors. Rudi Koertzen's is the worst by far and shouldn't umpire in Aus. I'm not saying he's a cheat I'm saying he get far too many game critical decisions wrong.
PS This is not sour grapes as I'm a neutral who's supporting Aus in the ashes
Complain about this postEntry 60 (David) hits the spot. He can remember England being all out for 52 in Bradmans last test. But remember that had little to do with the Don. Good bowling and poor batting had a lot to do with it.
And Laker's effort at Old Trafford? Never to be forgotten for those who heard on radio or indeed those lucky enough to have TV (didnt he win BBC sports person of the year?)No whinging about the pitch or the umpires then. Fast forward to Adelaide. Warne up there with Laker as a match winner.
Now Perth WA. Excuses...Poor team selections, bad umpiring decisions, flat wickets, tricky light and turf which makes catches impossible to take, unlucky snicks which by the grace of the cricketing Gods fly between poorly placed fieldsmen. A keeper who fumbles an under 14 stumping etc. etc
Sure I am an Aussie but I am not enjoying this. Why dont you Mr Aggers and the general public push for change and insist on people who can bat, field,catch and throw . Jones miss and the Strauss miss are reminiscent of the Giles miss in Adelaide.
Forget thoughts of holding the Ashes this time around. Not will be.
Be positive you lot and give us a game!!!
Complain about this postThe ' end is nigh' as you put it Aggers was obvious to many after the first test, some would say after that now famous first ball from Harmiston.
To say its been a dissapointment is at the very least underestimating how I feel.
I had hoped that we would compete. But we have not done enough of that !
We have a certain similarity to our Rugby team after they had won the World Cup. Since we have won the Ashes our team have not performed.
Injuries have caused problems but that does not excuse the efforts of those who have been injury free.
There will not be any talk of heroic losers as there has not been much heroics to talk about.
I firmly believe that had we played the ' right team' in the first Ashes test things would have been different now.
What is becoming obvious to all is that no matter what team we played the Australians are a different class from us on their own patch.
Complain about this postThe ' end is nigh' as you put it Aggers was obvious to many after the first test, some would say after that now famous first ball from Harmiston.
To say its been a dissapointment is at the very least underestimating how I feel.
I had hoped that we would compete. But we have not done enough of that !
We have a certain similarity to our Rugby team after they had won the World Cup. Since we have won the Ashes our team have not performed.
Injuries have caused problems but that does not excuse the efforts of those who have been injury free.
There will not be any talk of heroic losers as there has not been much heroics to talk about.
I firmly believe that had we played the ' right team' in the first Ashes test things would have been different now.
What is becoming obvious to all is that no matter what team we played the Australians are a different class from us on their own patch.
Complain about this postMy apologies for the bad manners shown by some of the aussie posters here, it's and embarrising side of post colonial (lack of) culture. (yeh ok so I'm half pommie)
Put simply,
England lost the first test fair and square.
England were on top for most of the second test.
England bowled the aussies out for 244 to setup a winning opportunity in the third test
Doesn't sound nearly as bad does it?
And it's also true. Yes, England failed to capitalise, Yes England self destructed in the face of a dedicated and consistant attack by a team armed to the teeth with skills, focus and determination. Who wouldn't?
Why must the English supporters always see doom, gloom and negativity. How can your side flourish when they do so with 100,00 knives pointed at them for every false move?
The English are the first team to seriously challenge the authority Australia has held over the rest of the cricket world for the last decade or so. Well done, is what I say, and I look forward to even closer battles between two great sides fo many years to come.
May the best side always win and the losers always be honoured for their challenge.
Cheers, my friends.
Complain about this postIt is very sad for the game of cricket that going into the Boxing Day test with a huge crowd expected- that the series is dead. A huge anti-climax compared to 2005.
I also think it is very important that everyone does not drag the wonderful 2005 series through the mud.
In watching cricket for 24 years-that was the greatest cricket I had ever seen.
England played wonderful cricket and won fair and square and nothing should take that away.
Afterall even after Botham's Ashes in 1981, England lost the Ashes when they went to Australia 18 months later and Botham like Flintoff now- was a shadow of himself.
Yet today -1981 still has legendary status and so will 2005 in years to come.
I feel really sorry for the England players. I can't think of one player whose personality I don't like.
As for the Aussies-well played.
I wonder will several players retire now after this series ? I really cannot see the sense of some carrying on.
England must not be too down-they have lost to the best team in the world in their own backyard.
Complain about this postNothing shameful in that.
Good afternoon Aggers! What are you saying? Magrath is past it! England are 2 nil down! The Aussies are too good for England! England should never have rubbed the aussies noses in it last year. England played well last year, however now this is the true reflection of the gap between Australia and England! Flintoff is injured, petterson is world class as is hoggard ,and monty! However England aint good enough! shane warne. Hussey, M Clark, S Clark,Symonds, B Lee, Pointing there is no contest! Aussie Aussie oi oi!
Complain about this postWell too be honest i thought we would struggle in Australia from the outset.
Firstly Australia have been and continue to be very consistent compared to England. England seem to fire hot and cold and against an Australian team that seems to hover just below hot all the time that isnt going to be enough. England are a very capable side with alot of talent and can outplay Australia some of the time.
Fortunately in 2005 these moments of outplaying Australia were at crucial times but less we forget if it wasnt for the win at Edgbaston with a loss almost clasped from the jaws of victory or Shane Warnes dropped catch at the Oval we would never have won the series in England which has set up this so called equal contest.
To win in Australia, England needed the strongest team including Vaughan, Trescothick and Simon Jones. Also we needed a bit of luck with Australia playing a little below there best.
I think if we lose tomorrow ,3-0 which actually be harsh on England overall, especially given Adelaide. Its not good for Cricket for Australia to win the Ashes again as the interest in the game generally will reduce.
We will return to the status quo of one team being dominant.
Its never good for any team to dominate in the way they have for the last 10 years or more.
Of course Australia's stranglehold on World Cricket may hopefully be coming to an end with i assume the retirement of at least 5/6 members of the current team.
I am sure cricket historians will argue about how great the Aussie team has been over the last few years. The real question is has it been good for Cricket and the answer sadly has to be no. You only have to look at the 2005 series to see the joy and interest that was generated in England by England winning to realise that if world cricket was more balanced with different sides winning series and constantly striving for success that the game would be growing much quicker around the world.
I do think Australia have managed to mentally to knock everyone out and that cant be good.
Complain about this postAnother day of wake up calls....can anyone honestly say they could ever see English batsmen doing what happened today to the Aussie bowlers? Last year we deserved to win the series, but it was close because Australia were slightly under par for several phases of the series and England played at their best.
This series was doomed before it started. This is not the fault of the following people:-
Steve Harmison - not given enough bowling. I agree with central contracts, they are one of the main reasons we produced a squad that won the Ashes, but Harmy needed bowling not wrapping in cotton wool and then rolling out for a quick spin in the laughable excuse for a warm up (how we laughed at the Aussie boot camp....)
Ashley Giles - this guy is a top pro who always gives his best with what he's got. I defy anyone to turn down being picked for his country. Don't understand the flack he's had. No, he's not a match winning bowler, but he got picked.
Geraint Jones - no he's not the best wicket keeper - no he has no restraint as a batsman as far as I can see, or maybe lacks the ability to read the game. But he got picked.
So like many, many others I point the finger at Fletcher. It wasn't like Monty hadn't played a test. It wasn't even that he just had huge promise, he'd made his mark in test cricket and clearly has the mentality to become a world class performer for as long as he likes.
But if Fletcher cops the blame then the rest of the selectors and the coaching squad must too. Not enough warm up, defensive selections, too much pressure on Flintoff to be all things to all men. Last year we had a game plan, we stuck to it and tore into the Aussies relentlessly. This year we have turned up for a draw....and whined about the umpiring. This time tomorrow we will probably be staring down the barrel of 5-0...
All I hope is we learn a big lesson from this.... we need the kind of county/state system that the Aussies have. I have heard people speculating about how they will suffer when Hayden, Warne, McGrath et al retire. The answer is they will be just as strong... just ask the guy who replaced Damien Martyn?
Complain about this postMr Hynes and one or two others. Look up churl in the dictionary. How can you belittle an innings lke that? Has anyone said that Gilchrist is suddenly a better batsman than Richards? No. But only you and one or two other sods are saying he's not a trmendous cricketer. If it was such a piece of p*ss, why aren't you out there doing it?
I nominate you for the all-time sore losers' award.
Complain about this postjust give the captaincy armband to strauss and drop flintoff(believe me you should) and jones. flintoff because hes not performing with the bat, the ball and in the field jus look at symonds hes down well in all three and jones simply because he cant bat or catch, just look at gilchrist he can do both!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this postIncidentally, the odds today for a 2-2 series draw are 66-1, and a 3-2 england vicitory 150-1 (Bet365). Worth a pop?
Complain about this postI think England should insist that umpire Rudi doesnt participate in the remaining test matches even if the Ashes are lost.
His performance has been disgraceful to say the least.
Complain about this postMake him look at the TV replays to drive home the point.
I am amazed Bell made the ashes tour after what happened in England last year we may have won bit he still batted woefully. And now okay he made a gallant 50 in Brisbane but since then he's done nothing with the bat. drop him please.
Complain about this postWell I agree with a lot of what people are saying, everyone can have have a bad session or even a match but the one thing that really annoys me is the lack of team preparation.
In Oz you HAVE to play several 4 day matches to get used to the conditions (especially as half the team haven't been playing recently or have been injured).
In the old days the touring team would play each of the State teams in 4 day matches - not now.
The Aussies were desperate to get the Ashes back and did it through hard work and dedication. England did very little preparation and that is not good enough for the fans and supporters and even neutral and Aussie viewers.
Look at Harmison finally bowling well in the 3rd test - not a surprise there.
Monty's omission from Brisbane set the tone for the tour - we will be defensive - and it 's all backfired since.
Yes the Aussies are the best side in the world - and maybe to win in Oz would be difficult - but no-one would have blamed England if they had competed when it counted.
As for captaincy I think Freddie has been good - but has it affected his form as I feared it would? Difficult to say whether it was being rusty since injury or the extra psychological pressure.
Looking forward we have a good young team that underperformed badly - learn and move on.
Complain about this postDear Jeff Keogh
Got you.
Please don't try to use words if you don't understand their meaning. I wasn't being facetious. Now however, I am being patronising (that means "to be condescending towards someone").
Oh, and if Australia went eight series without winning the Ashes (I know this situation will sadly never occur), they might deservedly rejoice a little when they finally did regain them. Last year's celebrations were an outpouring of relief, as much as anything.
Walkovers and stuffings and hegemonies (look it up Jeff) are not good in the long term for sporting contests. Please admit that part of the reason you (and we) were all looking forward so much to this year's Ashes was because it looked like we'd turned it into a contest again. I'm as sorry as every other England fan that this was a false hope.
So, I'm not bitter. As my first post said, congratulations. I am sad at the result but also, once again, sad that you and others like you are showing typical lack of grace in victory.
However, thank you for your advice. I shall do my best to grow up. Please try do do the same.
Complain about this postIt was Gilchrist's once in a lifetime innings that beat England today and it was his extraordinary display after so many ordinary performances - England'a run of luck (as per the tests in Engllast in 2005) has now completely run out and the Australians are now playing their natural game and their main strike bowlers aren't injured as they were in 2005.
Complain about this postEngland needs to completely change the way they play the game back home and play 5 day tests and encourage, teach and coach their youngsters otherwise the Ashes will become a permanent prize for the Aussies.
As disappointing as it is to watch any team struggle, poor umpiring decisions will always leave a bitter taste in the mouth. There can but no doubt that Autralia are the better performing team but yet again results are being compromised by some poor decisions by the umpires. In todays world of modern technology,systems are available that would allow independant ruling on marginal umpiring calls. The world of rugby and tennis have already embraced such systems, which everyone who follows these sports have come to welcome. The ICC need to move with the times and remove for all time the blight that poor umpiring decisions brings to the game of cricket.
Complain about this postDid I read correctly in the Telegraph this morning that Australia will have something like 12 months after this series before they have another serious test commitment? If only England's tired and weary players were to be afforded that kind of rest they might be fresh enough to fight to the last ball of five day matches. As it is we will have to watch them struggle in the world cup in a couple of months time followed by yet more tests in two summer series at home against WI and India then onto another gruelling winter tour in SL and NZ, repeat ad nauseam.
Whichever idiots at the ICC or ECB drew up the itinerary for world cricket should be taken outside and shot.
Complain about this posti wont have all this rubbish that we are a bad team we are not we are the 2nd or 3rd best team in the world we are just an awful long way behind the best...
we havent bowled all that badly in this test we have just been bowling to 2 of the 3 most in form batsmen in the world (yousuf aside)
we won the ashes last year having our best team all playing to the maximum while our opponents were below par
1) we are not as good as australia and havnet been for years
2) without vaughan, jones and tres we are seriously weakened
3)lots of our key players are off form harmison,flintoff,strauss
4) australia are just simply better then we are
when you lose to a team better then you there is not always need for a post mortme or to blame anyone,in the 1st few matches it was because giles and anderson were playing and now it is because jones is playing, come on guys are you trying to say we would have won with reed in the side....
just face facts we are not a bad team we are a pretty good team but we are not or close to be the best team in the world
Complain about this postThe best thing england can do about the cricket is admit where they are, look at the australian performances this year, honestly see where they need to be and put in the hard work.
To post #95 about the ashes being lost again the moment drunken players, MBEs and open top bus rides filled our tv screens, you've hit the nail on the head.
If I hear one more pathetic Fletcher / Flintoff "we played well for most of the game, but just had one poor session" rubbish, or anyone whinging about the umpiring again, I'll explode. English cricket can only get better by facing up to the harsh truth and planning a ressurgance.
One last thing. YOU HAVE A BAT - USE IT. You pad up to a straight ball, you get no sympathy.
Complain about this postI thought this at the time and I continue to believe now that any Australian, from their team to their fans, including anyone not even remotely interested in cricket, after watching those totally overblown post-Ashes celebrations in this country in 2005 must have been relishing the day they could make us grovel.
Every blow from the superb Gilchrist innings this morning felt like another nail being hammered in to the coffin and, let's face it - they're loving the humiliation their causing.
Complain about this postFletcher has to go.Ashes is going,going and...gone.Worldcup under prepared and why he should take England to the world cup and battered aging.Fletcher's misjudgement is the cause for the first two matches loss.He is not a oneday cricket coach.
Complain about this postI dont think English players apart from few take cricket as seriously as Aussies or other team take. Flintoff just acted like a kid by not selecting good team. Picking giles, who has made his wife scape goat now as she has fallen sick all of sudden, and jones what was he thinking. in last three matches they always have talked about defending and forcing draw. Monty got 8 wickets in one test and giles got 3 in two test. Clearly, they were bias in selection. Strauss should have never been taken off captaincy but then country is obessed praising heroics and in making the best soldier as the General. Who is gonna fight if soldier indulges himself in building strategies. Good solidier is not always good General. Ponting and Steve Waugh, in general aussies are exception being master of all trades cos of thier history
Complain about this postWell from the moment Steve Harmison bowled the first very bad ball, that seems to set up a bad omen for England, and it's very much been downhill, it's such a shame this time round it hasn't even been a contest, it took England 16 years to get the Ashes and to have surrended it so easy must hurt any English Cricket fan, all in all it's been a bad year for England in all sports!
Complain about this postagain, england fail to take 20 wickets. They will never have a chance, if they can't take 20 wickets in a match.
At one stage i think the aussie think they are playing a one dayer. You know, Gilly and clark had score 70runs in four crazy overs.
Complain about this postThe first Ashes series I watched was against Bradmans 1948 Australians (yes, i'm that old!) and the last was the 1956 series when Jim Laker had an even greater influence than Shane Warne does now
Reading some of the comments regarding the current Test in Perth, you would have thought the
world had come to an end. Its all swings and roundabouts and the pendulum will swing the other way again (rather belatedly!)
For a start the ECB should stop being so supine in agreeing to ridiculous schedules that are all about money money money.
Complain about this postthe reason england won last time around is a bit og luck and astralia below full streagth. If they had Macrath for all five tests they would haV ELOST 3-1 . Now england is not at full strength and aussies ared giving them a beating
Complain about this postIt was Gilchrist's once in a lifetime innings that beat England today and it was his extraordinary display after so many ordinary performances - England's run of luck (as per the tests in England in 2005) has now completely run out and the Australians are now playing their natural game and their main strike bowlers aren't injured as they were in 2005.
Complain about this postEngland needs to completely change the way they play the game back home and play 5 day tests and encourage, teach and coach their youngsters otherwise the Ashes will become a permanent prize for the Aussies.
the positives to come out of the series as far as england are concerned
collingwoods batting
pietersens fighting qualities
hoggards bowling
and hopefully english selectors are already scouring the counties for a wicketkeeper
apart from the final day in adelaide ... C+
Complain about this postAs an Australian who came to the bbc site for the football scores, a quick look here reveals the report on Gilchrist, turning back the years and resultant English despair.
Complain about this postAlso, this blogsite. Many critical comments on England, but this bloke is still trying to work out the planning of the tour. This week I read they had had astonishingly returned to England for the matter of a week, instead of coming directly from the sub-continent. Despite the failure of "minimalist" preparations with a couple of previous tours, the lack preparation was built into this tour tour in an even worse way than previously.
I suppose this means the bean counters were planning the tour, rather than people who care about the game.
Penny wise, pound foolish. A shame the English players will have to wear approbrium for the REAL cretins, who will no doubt remain anonymous.
Oh, good grief. Whining about the umpiring is the last refuge of those whose teams just aren't good enough.
Strauss was out. Quibble about the height as you will - it looked fine to me - for him to pad up without offering anything resembling a shot to a ball that both pitched and struck dead on line for the stumps was foolish, and he deserved to go out - just like his other "dubious" decisions were nonetheless on ghastly shots.
Australia haven't had that much leeway from the umpires, especially if you take into account the rule that doubt must always go in favour of the batsmen. I doubt the umpires are giving out unless they're sure, for either side. When even the pick of your bowlers - Panesar - is getting taken for more than twenty runs in a single over, it's clear that the batsmen are just outplaying the bowlers.
Complain about this postNot too bad a day by England really, all things in context. I have no doubt we'll cruise to victory tomorrow.
Complain about this postI suppose you have to hand it to the aussies...that defeat in England really hurt and they want to pay England back for ever it seems.
Everything has been said on the site and sadly much will be ignored...the consistent messages:
Flintoff just not a captain by a long way and he must go.
Giles has gone but not his fault because how do you expect him after a year out to face this awsome team..it was an unfair call by Flintoff among others. (As with the even more stupid selection of Anderson)
Jones is not the ticket...how much longer does this point need to be made for goodness sake!!!
Our batting is frail and we need some competition because at the moment some of these guys (Cook, Strauss, Bell) think all they have to do is turn up.
We have been unlucky losing S Jones, Vaughan and Tresco so do not despair.
We do have good players but they are not all in this team...yet!
How do we get them in...change Fletcher?? Not sure about that but someone has to show some vision and leadership.
Complain about this post37 instances of the word umpire in 100 odd posts. Congratulations, you've just reinforced the Aussie prejudice that you're a pack of whinging poms.
Complain about this postToo late now. Fletcher should have taken the free advice offered in this blog, which is a 'wiki' of cricket know-how.
Flintoff clearly isn't leadership material.
As for KP, he needs good management. He's like a 'free-agent' from baseba;ll, but in cricket there's no place for him to go.
He runs the eisk of becoming a pariah, which given his talent would be a sad day for the sport.
To be honest I don't care who wins except that the game is tight, the fans are excited, and cricket flourishes.
All is awry with England, on and off the field.
Flintoff can't handle the team, KP especially.
Jones on the selection committee? Tell me no more, he went to the right school.
Look out England, St. Lucia, John Davison and Canada await....
Hey maybe KP, Chris Read and Monty P can play for Canada now?
Complain about this postJay, we are not loving this humiliation!! (I cannot believe he would think that of us!!!)
Mr English, stop wasting your time in pointless, endless analysis.
You got thrashed (caned? thumped? tonked? walloped? routed? flayed? I just can't find the exact word I'm after...can someone help me out?)
Thanks for the game (oh, come on, you don't seriously think the game's still going, do you? Trust me, it's hopeless. You are hopeless)
Better luck next-time!
PS Second thoughts Jay....
Complain about this postI really don't get it... Engand have a really good team, its true, but you'd never of guessed that from the way they've been playing.
Complain about this postSeriously if these people are supposed to be the best players in England, why do we only get a couple of spectacular players a game, England either have to book there ideas up and play together and in confidence... i've seen village cricket teams with more confidence, or lose, and another thing bowling short is not the way, they need to varie the bowling but not bowl short every ball, or Gilchrist will hit hundreds and all the other playes will knock England about everywhere.. C'mon the barmy army
Jay W - You are totally right. Like me you probably cringed when the team went on the victory parade in 2005 and could not bring yourself to read the populist adoration of a team who had won two matches - that was it we had done it we had reached the summit (so we were led to believe) and now everybody can relax - everything is now fine and dandy with Ennglish cricket. WRONG - As Clive Woodward said about the England Rugby team, the worst thing that happened was winning the World Cup and the same for England winning the Ashes - we took our foot of the pedal and found ourselves struggling against Sri Lanka, India and Pakistan. Look at our results before the 2005 Ashes and since. Case closed.
Complain about this postRE: Richard's comment about umpiring decisions (number 12)
I haven't seen Strauss' dismissal in the second innings, but Geoff Boycott shouted 'thats out' straight away on the radio and that is the point...Umpires don't give LBW decisions based on arcane laws of physics and the science of ballistics used to guide 'hawkeye', they give them based on whether or not it 'looks' out.
Even if you can't describe precisely what 'it looked out' means, we all know it when we see it..to say that Koetzen's decision was disgraceful is just ridiculous, the disgraceful part was Strauss not playing a shot to a ball that was swinging, that just makes it look even more 'out'..
Complain about this postAs an aside to the main debate, I wonder why it is that so often the dubious or plain wrong decisions mostly seem to benefit the stronger side. Strauss has now been given out questionably three times in succession, while Australian batsmen have had more generous umpiring. Don't get me wrong, the Aussies would still have beaten us, but it's annoying. We might just have put up a better fight if Strauss could have continued batting. It happens in other sports too: in football the big clubs get penalties awarded, and the smaller clubs have them turned down. I'm not saying officials cheat: but something happens to their mindset that makes them favour the side that is already likely to win.
Complain about this postOh dear, Greg Hynes @102... Adam Gilchrist a "substandard lower order batsman"?
He has a Test average over 50, with 17 centuries to his name, and just scored the second-fastest Test century in history, including 24 runs off one over by Panesar and finishing unbeaten by England's bowlers.
If he's substandard, I have the following questions:
1) What does that make the majority of your batsman, who would probably kill for his average?
2) What does that make your bowlers, who let him get the second-fastest century ever and couldn't get him out when he was tonking everything in sight?
Complain about this postRob, England have got to last until 5 am tomorrow morning!!!!
Don't want to be too negative, it plain to see that we are simply not good enough to compete with this Aussie team.
Complain about this postLike Mussolini England believed their own press about how good they were. While they played inconsistantly Australia was honing it's skills and sharpening their resolve. Within days Australia's approach had England looking like bunnies caught in truck headlights. As for those watching I feel a little paraphrasing is in order. Never in the field of Ashes conflict has so many been embarrassed, in so little time, by so few....
Complain about this postThis is a case of mind over matter. The body language of the English team is simply awful. The coach, total uninspiring. Listening to his interview wanted me to go to sleep. We should learn something from the Americans when all goes wrong on the field. The NFL coaches simply say: We were awful, we should be ashamed, we will work harder, what we did out there was unacceptable. Instead of what we do, which is try and justify the performance. As long as we can find why we were so bad, then that is seems some kind of strange justification that we are second best all the time. In Australia, there is a bottom line everyone is aware of..runs and wickets, lots and quickly. Simple as that. Be confident, have a good technique, know that someone is just as good waiting in the wings...all the ingredients one needs to perform. I recently returned from visiting my other half of my family in Sydney and their banter and their friends banter says it all. We are not interested in the finer details of a batsman's technique, it is of no interest. We want to see them consistent and get runs and wickets. That is all. If they are bad, they know it, everyone tells them and they take it positively and focus....not on impressing but improving! We need to keep things simple. We know Flintoff's footwork is awful, but that is a result of a negative mental picture every time he goes out to bat against the Ausies. Fix that and everything else will follow. BE POSITIVE..even if the pundits from the UK are all doom and gloom!
Complain about this postHello Aleksandar,
Are you saying that Gilchrist can't bat? Once in a lifetime it may be - has to be an all-time best personal performance somewhere for everyone who plays. But if you examine his record, you'll see that this was completely in keeping with his style and history. Or did you come in in 2005 when his slump started. Don't what happened before that, hey?
My guess is you know as much about cricket as I do about making borscht.
Complain about this postA great baseball player here in USA named the strange name of Yogi Berra said: "It ain't over, till it's over." I added yesterday, that unless the Umpires are still playing for Australia, we should regard this test, and the follow ups, as OPPORTUNITY.
With the umpiring decisions going for Australia, and against England - especially Strauss and Panesar - we have to wonder what the umpire motives are. If only Hair could have been eligible to be here! Despite his Aussie nationality, his decisions would heve been sharper - though he would not have been allowed to stand in Oz. And Pakistan mythology has seen him out of test cricket anyhow.
My only negative point is England management should challenge the capability of these umpires, one in particular.
If we do lose, we should definitely take the opportunity for wholesale changes in the side - bring in the younger, fit players. Make Strauss captain. Play Broad, Dalrymple, Yardy, for example, and let them learn Ashes cricket from brilliant players like Strauss, Collingwood, Flintoff, Pieterson, Cook (as a young, fit peer.)
And also to learn from playing against some of the all-time Aussie greats like Ponting, Hussey, Warne, and McGrath.
So, let's not get down in the mouth. There's a remote chance of a win. Playing for a draw would be dumb. And there's plenty of chance to build for future test cricket. So in my mind, Johnathan, the end is not nigh, the beginning is!
What a great game cricket is, unforgiving, but full of promise and opportunity!
Complain about this postThis is probably a stupid comment; why don't are top level players i.e. Flintoff, Harmison etc play in Australia in the same way that all there players (and the rest of the World) play in the County championship? Surely if our guys played over there it wouldn't be as much going into the unknown, we'd be used to the different ball, conditions, passion and the relentless nature in which they play.
I'm not giving this as an excuse but we saw what effect the England set-up had when it had a good Aussie presence, i.e. Troy Cooley and Rod Marsh. Basically we had a better set-up!
Complain about this postThe Aussies deserved this win. No one gave England a hope to win this series, and rightly so. England went into the series in a negative mindframe and man for man they were no match for the Aussies. The only two teams in the World that can beat the Aussies are South Africa and Pakistan, because both teams have the bowlers who can take 20 wickets without conceding over 500 runs. England dont have the bowlers who can bowl top teams out twice in a test match. Besides Hoggard and Monty, the rest looked like club bowlers. Especially Mahmood, Harmisson, and Anderson..and Jones' so called batting ability is nowhere to be found. England got what they deserved, now lets hope Fletcher gets his too, and is shown the door.
Complain about this postit will never be forgotten , simply becus it will be the last time that England will win it. England are the most over rated team eva. so just to raise morale, the english will always come back to the last ashes series becuz they have forgotten that that is the past and this is the ashes series now
Complain about this postJay, we are not loving this humiliation!! (I cannot believe he would think that of us!!!)
Mr English, stop wasting your time in pointless, endless analysis.
You got thrashed (caned? thumped? tonked? walloped? routed? flayed? I just can't find the exact word I'm after...can someone help me out?)
Thanks for the game (oh, come on, you don't seriously think the game's still going, do you? Trust me, it's hopeless. You are hopeless)
Better luck next-time!
PS Second thoughts Jay....
Complain about this postim not a big fan of berating umpires, its such a difficult job, but apart from the obvious poor decisions, the thing that has annoyed me this tour is that nearly every side-on view of a brett lee ball i have seen has been a no-ball! there's already been a couple of wickets for him that have been no-balls for him and im guessing there's more. The umpires must pay greater attention.
Saying that, umpire decisions do not win or lose the series, or at least this total mismatch. I think the two big influences on england's flop this year are vaughan missing as captain and the lack of troy cooley.
there are such fine margins between the abilities in test match cricket, that physcology plays a massive part. England have shown in glimpses that they are good enough to score 500, and to bowl australia out, but this series, unlike in 05, when the going gets tough, and the pressure is on, we can't bat, we can't bowl and we can't field.
The aussies on the other hand don't seem to let the pressure get to them at all, especially mike hussey, who seems mentally one of the best players ever. It is extremely rare that he gets out in a silly/frustrating way, and seems to get out (rare) only to superb bits of bowling or one off quirks, like youhana, there seems to be no tactic to getting him out other than brilliance, which this tour we seem to be lacking in, with the exception of monty.
Strauss should have been captain, and im sure we would be doing much better if he was, although even he is not as good as vaughan. but the problem with flintoff is that he lets games drift, and runs out of ideas and inspiration, and just waits for things to happen. any unusual fielding positions seem to be more token gestures of thoughtfulness, rather than moments of inspiration. there also seems to be a lack of cohesion and understanding within the batting line-up as to what the tactic is, whereas in 05 there always seemed a united approach. It is also extremely frustrating to see saj mahmood play and bowl so few overs. there was no point to playing him for this, don't get me wrong, i would have played him, but he needed o be given a decent chance. he could be the raw, maybe slightly expensive penetration that our blunt tool of an attack needs.
for the future, i would look to really encourage and find a wrist spinner in this country. any team that wants to be world beaters needs one, as they can take wickets on all surfaces. young rashid at yorkshire looks somebody of real promise, and is a good bat too, and i am praying that he can come along and be brilliant for us (please, please, please God!!!!). i also think we need to look outside of read/jones as keeper, as neither can bat well enough. i would like to either give the prolific prior a proper go at test cricket (not the very difficult position of pinch-hitting opener in ODI's), or i would look to young davies (davis?) at worcester. a team i'd love to see in the not too distant future would be...
Strauss (c)
Complain about this postCook (unless vaughan (c) returns)
Bell
Collingwood
Pietersen
Flintoff
Davies
Rashid
Broad (Harmsion maybe)
Panesar
Hoggard
hey you lot that are whinning about poor umpiring. Just take a deep breath and reflect back to 2005...I did not hear you poms complaining about the rubbish decisions that we got in particular martins lbw's amongst others. we were crucified by the umps then.just be man enough to face that fact that your not good enough...your win last year was a fluke and we are going to make you poms pay dearly...your going to be totally smashed 5.0
Complain about this postFor those Pommies whining about the Umpiring, stop crying and get on with it. The umpiring has been excellent throughout the series, and Strauss made an error in judgement and was clearly out. You're getting thrashed by a far superior team, so stop whining about the umpiring and go find yourselves some better players instead.
Complain about this postEngland abroad
Foreign coach
Young discovery he doesn't play
Keeps old playing favourites who aren't in form
England come home defeated
Sound familiar?
Complain about this postPROSPECTS FOR DAY FOUR
Weather forecast: fine. Therefore: going, going, gone. Last year's victory is now a distant and battered memory.
Complain about this postMr Agnew seems a trifle defeatist.....Ok Aus batted well to rack up their total on day 3....This doesnt mean certain defeat for England....The track seems to be getting alot more batsman friendly as the game goes on.... Langer went first ball so that makes the dubious Strauss decision not quite as bad as it seems
.... I wouldnt bet against England taking a draw or even a win (two days to get 500 runs) If Clarke etc can get their centuries then there is no reason why Collingwood,Bell,Pieterson and Freddie cant get theirs too....
Oh but only if!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this postLets face it poor preperation plus selectors that harked for the summer of 2005 have cost us the ashes!!!!We have the personel to more than match the ozzies,we retired martyn and should have retired hayden langer and macgrath.We picked the wrong captain selected players out of form and players that had not played in over a year!!!!!
History will show that the ozzies won this series 4/5 nil but wont show the inept selection of OUT OF FORM players by our below par selectors.I personally dont think this is the best ozzie team but even though 5 or them are on the decline we didnt match them toe for toe and attrocious batting esp middle order batsmen have let us down big time!!!!!Its really annoying particually as we pride our test team above the one day outfit!!!
Why do most uk teams disintigrate after rising to the peaks of perfromance only to rest on our laurels and fade away!!
Well done ozzies but you never really had a fight did you?when you did you looked ordinary!!!!!
Not enough cognisance seems to have been taken of the fact that the pitch has improved. Despite some notable batting failures in the second half of the England 1st innings - wasting the improving pitch, we ended roughly on a par with the Aussies.
Now we are still level. We just have to bat sensibly. We did it in Adelaide inns 1, and the situation is much the same now. We have plenty of time. There are no conflicting aims - whether we play for a draw or not, we have to stay in, and rotate the strike. If we scored at around three and a half an over, we would win.
Perhaps it doesn't look that likely, but it's certainly possible. The lackadaisical lack of focus and direction which has let us down so far must surely be out of the question now. Quite a few players are due for some big scores, and will have learnt some lessons from the first two (practice) matches.
I'm looking forward to seeing Monty score the winning runs slogging Warne for 6 in the last over - it could happen!
Complain about this postSorry to say i told you so...but i told you so! England are like a championship side playing a premiership side. Way out of our depth on all levels.
As for the Australian team they are outstanding consistently! That is something to be admired. As an Englishman im happy that we did win the Ashes last time around. This time however we just kissed them goodbye...!
One thing is for sure English or Aussie cricket fan im sure you will join me in wishing Ashley Giles the best with his current home situation...
Complain about this postIt has been a torrid time for England in this series, but for once, please Duncan do something right. Sit down with the troops and rally them. Lead them through inspiration. Forget the score, forget the bowlers. Play each and every ball as it comes to you and aim for small targets. 50 for 1 then 100 for 1 etc. Keep you heads and fight for the three lions you are wearing on you chest. Now is not the time for navel gazing. Now is the time to show you lot are real men.
Do it.
Complain about this postIt appears that certain gangs of young men, one known as 'the England Cricket Team' are indulging in behaviour that can be considered anti-social. By needlessly giving away their wickets in public places, dropping their catches in front of children and bowling long-hops outside the leg stump in broad daylight, they present a threat to national security that cannot be underestimated. I have been informed that they were seen 'pushing' easy deliveries to addicts of poor length and line, one of whom is a know wicket-keeper and living in Australia. I say to these people that if this behaviour continues, they will be prudently arrested on sight and subject to custodial sentences. For example, if an England batsman is out for under 50 in the coming innings, he can expect to be detained on the pitch by armed officers and face the full consequences in the courts. We must stamp out this wave of organised capitulation before it takes control of our society.
Complain about this postI think the comments of 'Richard - Scotland' are valid; the unabated euphoria of an England ashes win was embarassingly absurd. The manner of celebration was indicative of the expectancy for English sporting success!!
Winning at anything has become a great achievement, because it so rarely happens; the same holds true for rugby and cricket. If Kenya were to win the cricket world cup or Tunisia the Soccer world cup, THAT would be a great achievement given their resources and population size. England have the relatively large population and large financial resources but continue (except for world cup wins - soccer in 1966 and rugby in 2003) to be a 'sporting back-water'.
Whatever sport they play, the English system expects top dollar for their performance and yet we, the paying public, generally get mediocrity at best.
Complain about this postWhat a slovenly, laid-back, unprofessional approach from England in the last year.
Half the time they didn't even seem to WANT to play. They were going home to witness the birth of a baby, or to spend more time with their families,or for "personal reasons".
And Flintoff shouldn't even be playing, not to mention being the captain. He is patently unfit and out of form.
Likewise Giles was unfit, and had no match practice.
Jones the wicketkeeper batsman was failing at BOTH jobs.
As Boycott says, Harmison should have been putting in his RECENT hard practising six months ago.
And the batsmen are not playing that well either.
No, the team is sadly intoxicated from glory that is past, and they badly need a tough disciplinarian. Like G Boycott as coach.
Complain about this postIt was inevitable that this was going to be a series for the Aussies. Let's be realistic, while we were a good side in 2005, we only won on the back of an injured Mcgrath and some poor decisions from Ponting. To go into this series with a half-baked practice match, and then to drop three players and replace them with ones who have been out of the limelight for about a year spelt it all.
Australia are too good and have demonstrated it this year. While they've gone from strength to strength after the defeat, we seem in free fall. I think a reality check for the management and players is needed, and this series does not provide it, I do not know what will.
P.S Good luck to Ashley Giles and his wife. I say well done to him for tolerating all the criticism he has put up with given this trying time. People who criticised him should back off as after all he gives it his best day in day out and it was clear he was out of practice. It's down to Fletcher for selecting him over the 'best finger spinner in the world'. I think Fletcher should do the hounourable thing after this series and stand down. Thanks for 2005, but it's now time for a new direction.
Complain about this postBlaming the umpires is pointless, England will lose the Ashes tomorrow entirely at Fletcher's and Freddie's behest. Everyone knows how difficult it is to beat Australia at home and most thought that the Aussies would win this series, but it would be close. Negative selection and poor captaincy have done for England - nothing left to play for but pride...
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From an Aussie view point I thought England tried their very hardest today and admire them for it. We had to concentrate hard all the way and stay focussed for the whole journey. It was only Gilchrist that destroyed Englands honest work...but that was simply a freakish innings you wont see again.
England if they want to draw this test only need to look at Hussey's batting strategy... hit only the balls that are in your comfort zone...leave the others go by, that requires focus and concentration. It will then depend on how much the pitch supports Warne and Symons spinners [also Clarkes spinners].
The series has been closer than you think...the major difference is the doggard and insane levels of concentration Ponting and Hussey put into their batting. These two are batting like demon possessed men. Ponting, because he bleeds for revenge; Hussey, because he feels that every minute out there is an an absolute honour to be savoured.
England won in 2005 because they were all 100% focussed for 100% of the time. Australia could ony manage 95%
Complain about this postFlintoff completely hopeless and not at all strategic. Drop him. Strauss for captain.
Complain about this postThey came they saw they (were) conquered.
One of my first leasons as an Aussie fan some 30-40 years ago was "Enjoy a great game even if we are beaten, unless it is the Poms. We must beat the Poms".
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, you're being beaten & your egos are bust. Please hand back your gongs to the palace on your return to the home country.
Complain about this postDear Beeb,
Complain about this postPlease send KIM HUGHES´TEARS straight out to Oz to commentate for us. Common sense, interesting views, knowledgeable, and dare I say it "in touch"! (Sorry Aggers)
Good stuff, keep it up
May I remind people of some comments by Shane Warne a few short weeks ago. He said
Duncan Fletcher has definitely got a few favourites," he added. "I think that's well-known between everybody. That's why some blokes keep coming back into the side, because they are favourites. But in Australia you need your best keeper because the ball does bounce and carry, and so I'd be very happy to see England go back to Jones and Giles.
"They think they are just trying to strengthen their batting and their tail, but actually what they are doing is losing two of the finest arts in the game, in keeping and spin bowling. England have got two guys that can do that exceptionally well, but they want them to go to bring in handy lower-order batters. That's what the top six are there for. You need 20 wickets to win a Test.
"Giles is a very good cricketer and a lovely guy. But they've got an exciting spin bowler in Panesar, as we saw this summer. Don't mess around with him, just let him play, enjoy the conditions, keep learning and bowl. He needs to enjoy the challenges that lie ahead. I think it's a backwards decision to go back to Jones and Giles, and a good sign for us."
Seems like Warne was more interested in a good England Ashes prformance than the English management.
Complain about this postCount me among the hopeless optimists who think that England still have a chance. Less than 300 a day required on a track that Pietersen said after 2 days was getting better and better for batting. Well he got that right about the third day. And didn't I hear something about the good old English last resort fallback, the weather, getting a bit dodgy on Monday.
However my head says that I'll be pleasantly surprised if England have fewer than 6 down for not nearly enough when I turn the radio on at about after the tea interval tomorrow.....
Complain about this postThe only thing that concerns us is he sometimes struggles to build an innings - D Fletcher on Monty Panesar... LOL!!!
Complain about this postGeraint Jones is on the selection commitee!
WHY? - He should be on the plane home with poor old Gilo!
He missed a stumping, dropped a catch and scored 0 in this test.
For all his acheivements in this series you could have had the team taking turns behind the stumps and added another top line batsman or bowler!
Its about time Freddie and Duncan were given a quiet word about favouritism!!!!!
As for Strauss! I dont think any other England Batsma has been given as many duff decissions against him since Nasser Hussain!
To top it all watching Jones and Flintoff giggling on the balcony towards the end of play - probably deciding what pub to go to after play or what spinner to play instead of montey in the next test given Ashley Giles departure!
Disgraceful!
Complain about this postHe's taken a lot of stick recently, mainly from me, and I believe justly sobut today has been overshadowed by the Ashley Giles story. All I can say is that I wish Ashley and his family all the very best and hope everything turns out ok!
On a cricketing note I can see us breaking all kinds of records and winning this test! Two double centurions and we'll do it.....
Complain about this postI am sad to say that I am glad that I have been marooned in Central Spain for the winter. I now dread checking the score every morning.The problem it seems to me is that England has decended into an old boys network with Fletcher and Flintoff at the helm. We have handed the Aussies the ashes by not playing our best 11. Also all my worst fears about Freddy as captain have been realised. Great player as he is the captaincy is too much, although I have to say my respect for him is dwindling after the selection of Giles and Coco the clown behind the stumps. Not only is he worse than Read but he is probably worse than Foster and Davies as well, he did NOTHING in the championship after getting dropped, is he secretly Fletcher's love child? The first thing to be done after this debacle is sack Fletcher, yes he has done a good job in the past, I do not dispute this, but he has lost the plot, and secondly give the captaincy to Strauss who was exemplary this summer. I would like to add that I send all my best wishes to Ashley Giles and his family.
Complain about this post"But in the grand scheme of things, these are trifling" In what cricketing world do you live Aggers? We looked very well set prior to Strauss being given out in our first innings. Fair enough the following collapse was spineless but honestly. As for today Strauss judged the ball completely on lentgh and anyone bar Koertzen could see it was rising over middle stump. Please do not make out such instances to be be "trifling". Was Hussey's refusal to walk "trifling"? There has been far too much smug engish commentary
Complain about this postso far and despite my own reservations about England's captaincy, the awful despondency of you and other Aggers has contributed very little to any sensible debate about English cricket's Test XI for the forseeable future including Melbourne and Sydney. I would question the place of Cook and Bell and indeed our talisman Flintoff frankly yet my team would be Strauss, Cook, Shah, Collingwood, Pietersen, Bell, Flintoff, Read, Panesar, Harmison, Anderson. And despite everything else the Ashes are going to be ours for the next decade because Australian cricket's youth system is flawed and ours is fundamentally excellent. Maybe next time the series will be played as a sport rather than some vicious unsporting vendetta. Australians hang your heads in shame.
Completely agree with the Scotsman, the hype following the 05 series was way over the top, the honours completely premature. Thank good ness for Aggers and Boycs keeping a sense of realism this winter - The Guardian's podcast has been driving me mad with its bizarre mixture of boundless optimism and jingoistic arrogance. It is not just the johnny-come-latelies who are completely outof the loop as far as England's true level is concerned... I heard on the Grauniad this morning that since the 06 Ashes, England had "done well on the subcontinent and hammered Pakistan - they're NOT a bad side". Well, they struggled on the subcontinent, were often made to look foolish by Sri Lanka last summer and, sure, took a controversial series against Pakistan. Meanwhile, Dad's Army were battering allcomers, in preparation for this series.
5-0 coming up (but, as usual, if they sneak the final test and it ends 4-1 we'll be regaled with might-have-beens and optimism for the future...=
Complain about this postOn Sunday, if all the remaining England batsmen score 50 runs each, including Jones, Hoggard and Flintoff - then England would come up around fourty runs short of an amazing miracle victory after all......SO, the only possible way for England to get out of this dire mess is for every single batsman to go ballistic - a.l.a. Gilchrist - and to hit Lee, Mcgrath and, particularly Warne for a four or possibly 6 almost every ball. What else is there to do now?
Come on England - for goodness sake - This is the Ash...................heck, is that my alarm again........
Oh no, back to reality...........AAAARRRRRGGHHHHH!
................Gutted, almost completely, about the Ashes.
Pleased to read total hope to the last - e.g. in posting no.5 from Jim.
Gutted.........but keeping the whole thing in perspective with the sad news of the much criticised Ashley Giles and of his wife being diagnosed with a tumour.
Yes the Ashes will be gone, dismally and extremely disappointedly and we shall all be sick for weeks, months, years even, but we also have to keep things in perspective and be thankful for the good health and hope that we have.
Complain about this postWell, as an Ex-pat living in the US I find myself in a similar position to 2004. I have become a Boston Red Sox baseball fan ( I know I know, sorry ) and they were down to the Yankees 3 game to 0 to earn the right to go to the world series. No one had ever come back from 3-0 down to win 4 in a row. Some people thought it was all over, well, it is now, as the Red Sox did win 4 in a row and went on to win the world series. Why is this relevant? It ain't over till it's over is why. When you see a comeback from the impossible, you begin to believe in the impossible. England can do it. Have they made it hard for themselves? Oh yeah, but how big of a party will they throw when they retain the Ashes? Put me down for many pints!!!
Complain about this postEngland are a shambles. Have we missed Michael Vaughan and Simon Jones. Further what did Panesar and Read do to warrant being dropped. Making Flintoff captain hbas neutered him just as it did to Botham - don't the selectors ever learn? Time for Fletcher to go - if he were a football manager he'd be out. After this summer's poor performances against Sri Lanka and the current tour he must go.
Complain about this postDid anyone else notice the margins of victory in the 2005 Ashes series? To win two test matches at home by 2 runs and 3 wickets, against one of the poorest Aussie performances for more than 10 years, doesn't make you champions of the world. Real champions sustain greatness over extensive periods of time. I think the Aussies have a point to prove - the last series was closer than the media led us to believe; this series was always likely to be a return to earth embarrassment of huge proportion. Didn't anyone see it coming?
Complain about this postPerhaps this is an era where you win one and lose one(like somehwere in the 80s,recently I was looking at the ashes ' history).Sorry to have given up hope but it is quite a possibility that if England lose this one they might regain it in 2009!
Complain about this postduncan fletcher must be joking if he thinks englang are going to score over 500 runs to win this test match who does he think we are ? save the expense bring the troops home.
Complain about this postWhile it could be argued that Australia have had the rub of the green with the best of the 50/50 decisions going their way on this particular occasion, I've often felt that the the Aussie side that lost the Ashes in 2005 suffered badly from the 50/50 decisions that did not go their way.
Complain about this postThe mark of a truly great side in sports generally, is that they often seem to have enough in the bag to overcome minor injustices encountered, or not having the rub of the green.
Question is, have this England side got something special and win in front of a largely hostile crowd, like the West Indies and the Aussies of old?
pommie lads, there's still 2 days to go. it is a big total, warne will be bowling on a deteriorating pitch and it'll be the biggest 2nd innings run chase in history but it's not impossible, just improbable. what i just found out is that cricket is not broadcast free to air in england like it is here in australia. if you want to encourage the general population, in particular the english cricketers of the future broadcast the most famous bloody cricket series free to air so everyone can enjoy it. loved the gilchrist teeing off session, reminded me of all the stick i got as an aussie in the uk last year when pietersen and flintoff were doing the same to us. cheers lads.
Complain about this postengland have been found wanting from day one of the tour,terrible and bewildering selection bordering on farcical teams being fielded much to the dismay of every cricketing brain out there!
Complain about this postplease let us play well and show some backbone before they all come home in shame and the back bench management decide to spin some story about how unlucky we were and we are ready to bounce back and play some good cricket, its the same old line from duncan et all.
why is flintoff captain ,why is jones in the team at all,why wasn't panesar played till now (he has been a shining beacon in the whole team ) why is anderson playing and why take ashley g ?
all questions most have asked, anyone got an answer?
There are some justified (and some unjustified) criticisms of the coach and selectors here, but what about ECB? Having taken the Murdoch millions and deprived us of cricket on terrestrial TV, they refused Troy Cooley a modest salary increase and he returned to Australia. This probably accounts for much of the poor England bowling performance, along with a schedule that allowed too few practice games.
And let's stop being wise after the event. Although pretty well all precedents showed that captain/ star batsman / star bowler is an unachievable combination, I don't recall a big 'Stop Freddie' campaign on this message board or elsewhere until everything started going wrong.
And finally, can people PLEASE stop whining about the umpires. Strauss has certainly had some bad decisions, but generally the decisions, like the 'luck', go to the better and the better prepared side. As someone said, the more I practice the luckier I get.
Complain about this postDear Kim Hughes' tears,
Many thanks for your English lession, it's just a shame you've been unable to give us any lessons in how to play cricket, or rubgy, or netball, or soccer, or.........
Complain about this postAustralia are not a great side, but England have made them look as good as the West Indies of the 80s
The disappointing thing is not losing as much as not even putting up a fight: too many errors.
Why play risky shots in a test - it's all about tenacity and occupying the crease.
Complain about this postI cant see england winning another series ever again under fletcher. Either in one dayers or tests.
If this is bad, wait until the world cup!
Complain about this postCan we insist that the England team return all their gongs acquired for last years effort. Sorry the umpiring had nothing to do with it. Strauss played two awlful shots it wasnt likely that he was going to score more than 50 anyway.
Complain about this postI salute Warne, Gilchrist, McGrath,Ponting and now Hussey great players in any era of the game.We need to learn from this disaster we need to produce players with the pride, passion and commitment of a Michael Hussey Sadly at least three quarters of this England squad come no where near that standard.
Back to the drawing board chaps will we win the Ashes again in my lifetime?
YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS, FLETCHER ARE YOU?OVER 500+RUNS TO WIN DREAM ON BABY
Complain about this postA 5-0 stuffing against the backdrop of pre Ashes overhype and misplaced confidence will hopefully bring some humility to the whole England set-up - players and staff.
England only just won the previous Ashes, and since their ridiculous parade, ensuing hysteria and 'god-like' status, England have been nothing more than mediocre ever since. Yes it was great to win the Ashes, but really, was the over-reaction neccessary? Australia are well and truly shoving that down our throats.
It seems as though there was a feeling of 'never mind, it will be alright when it counts'.
Fair enough - this is not the same England in terms of injuries, etc, but blimey, how could anyone really think that keeping the Ashes was realistic!
Just imagine how embarrasing it would be if Australia were firing on all cylinders.
It's the hope that kills you as they say. I'm going to bed tonight hoping/expecting England will win this test.
Complain about this postPost 219 At 05:47 PM on 16 Dec 2006, andrew good ...
Complain about this postNow thats is the most sensible post Ive seen for along time .... and from an Aussie too ...... Spot on
Could you sound any more pompous mate? "Oh my team's getting smashed so I must berate the Aussies with the obvious perception that they are all illiterate". Anyone can use big words mate, dictionary.com isn't that hard to use. You my friend, are a fool.
Complain about this postFact of the matter is that they lost the ashes even before the 1st ball was bowled. They have no self belief at all. The aussies fight till the very end and never give up. The English simply dont have the courage to admit that they got their selection wrong, the preparation wrong and simply dont have the staying power (concentration) to bat properly or the skill and firepower to take 20 hungry aussie wickets.
Game Over I am afraid.
Complain about this postStuart Bulloch, your comments are pretty funny. How shocking that the Australians should actually try hard to win the Ashes. Do you mean that England won it last year without trying and therefore are somehow more sporting?
Also, your criticism of Hussey not walking is wafer thin. Exactly how many cricketers walk? The only 2 who are known for it are Brian Lara and Adam Gilchrist. Gilly is of course one of those uncivilised Australians, but whatever you do, don't wreck a good prejudice for the sake of a fact.
Complain about this postTo Bri Carter -
Sorry. Australia could win it, but England won't.
If only Giles was playing!!!!
Complain about this postStuart Bulloch
'And despite everything else the Ashes are going to be ours for the next decade because Australian cricket's youth system is flawed and ours is fundamentally excellent. Maybe next time the series will be played as a sport rather than some vicious unsporting vendetta. Australians hang your heads in shame'.
These comments above demonstrate what is wrong with English sport to an extent.
Firstly, regarding the youth system. You have no idea what you are talking about. We have numerous up and coming players coming through our ranks-after all you have to watch them dominate your weak domestic competition for proof.
Moreover, we essentially have 66 players who can make our test team as we have only 6 teams in our domestic game. Of those around 45 are never going to play test cricket-they may come into domestic cricket and look like stars, but they are not going to make it.
Therefore, you have to be good to make the grade, and you are found out very early as all the players are good. Compare that with county cricket, with a lot more players and hence you have lots of average players that make some of the better players appear better than they are-batsmen and bowlers.
I mean the English rave on about Cook and Bell but he has a lot of weaknesses and they have been found out by our bowlers very quickly-they are not ready for this level. When our players come in they are usually ready, when they make mistakes they go back to rectify them in domestic cricket and come back better players-if they come back at all.
Finally, your comments about vendettas just shows that you don't have the stomach for pro sport-what do you expect us to do, go easy on you and call you back for another bat, ot maybe we should retire at 50?
Your cricket team puts your nation to shame not ours. We show bottle, and you, in typical over-hyping give MBEs out for winning a cricket series for god sake.
That just demonstrates that England take sport too seriously. If we were to do the same thing it would be a never ending list of awards.
Complain about this postAt 05:23 PM on 16 Dec 2006, kevin byrne wrote: hey you lot that are whinning about poor umpiring. Just take a deep breath and reflect back to 2005...I did not hear you poms complaining about the rubbish decisions that we got in particular martins lbw's amongst others. we were crucified by the umps then.just be man enough to face that fact that your not good enough...your win last year was a fluke and we are going to make you poms pay dearly...your going to be totally smashed 5.0
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You were obviously watching a different 2005 Ashes than us....There were bad decisions against both sides....and if Martyn got a baddun then he got his just deserts for claiming a catch that clearly grounded ... last year a fluke.....2-1 didnt do England justice .... would have been 4-1 but for the weather
Complain about this postYou English have managed to lay the blame at the feet of everyone from the Chairman of English Cricket, the Coach, the captain, the bowlers, the batsmen, the keeper, the groundsman, down to the guy selling the pies. !!
Complain about this postMaybe now you might try blaming Gilly, or Clark, maybe Hayden, perhaps Ponting. Or even Hussey.
The big factor is your culture of blame. Sure its disappointing, but try some positive encouragement instead of this constant stream of criticism. We didnt blame anyone when losing last year. We just looked for the positives, looked at where we needed to improve, went about the job and got on with it.
To Post 85.
Perhaps if England had bowled straighter and fuller to Gilly, then he wouldnt even be remotely challenging that record.
They were bowling to his strengths, they were lost and had no game plan at all.
Even a cornerned Dog is dangerous......the English team were simply kids lost in a playground.
Complain about this postEngland's whole tour has been a shambles from start to finish.
If you lose with a bit of a flourish or a fight it looks so much better. Instead the team has generally been spineless and clueless.
There has to be a complete overhaul at the top now.
This should include Graveney and the selectors and Fletcher the coach. Anyone else at the top involved in the set-up of the tour deserves to go as well.
Flintoff should never be captain again. He is woefully out of his depth and his body language when things are not going well is hardly going to galvanize the team.
The next Chairman of Selectors has to be a more powerful personality who dares to choose attacking teams who have a chance of winning.
This would make a pleasant change from the 'if your face fits' culture of the current regime.
Complain about this postEngland couldn't even beat Wales and Scotland in "One Man and His Dog" tonight.
Is there anything we're good at any more?
Complain about this postQuestions about preparation time abound and the England and Wales Management Team claim that flying back to England after the Champions Trophy was the right thing to do....all that time with wives (desperate or otherwise) and families, enabled the team to get valuable relaxation time before the Ashes onslaught.
Complain about this postMind you the Aussies had other ideas, spending their time at a "Boot Camp", male bonding in rugged conditions, where to my mind, I guess, there wouldn't have been any wives or families. Strange really how the rigours of the "Boot Camp" seem to have put so much more of a strain on the Australian team than their English and Welsh counterparts.
Mr. Agnew, last year's victory, may seem to be the icing on a cake that never was.
In reality the victory was an aberration!
England were simply very fortunate that things clicked and they won two matches they really could have lost for an eventual 3-0 drubbing!
Cricket is a funny game and having followed online the one day match when both sides scored over 400 runs, I will not say Australia is certain to win, but this much I'll say taking Vaughn, Tresco, Anderson and Sajid may not have been wise decisions. Problem is who would replace them I guess?
Vaughn was obviously not fit to make it before the 4th test, Tresco had a prior history of breaking down, Anderson is overrated, and Sajid was simply not going to be called on to do much unless Harmy and Hoggy both broke down and no one else was available to share the new ball with Flintoff.
Is Sajid a #8 who can bowl or a 4th seamer or a "prop" the English think might fool the Aussies?
He got all of 17 overs and the Aussies batted for 176 overs in this match!
Complain about this postYou English supporters are incredible...
2 days to get 500+ runs, at a rate of less than 100 runs per session.....
It should be a walk over.
Ponting in a similar situation would back his team to get the total, no-one on these blogs thinks its achievable..... bizarre
WHY?
Oh yes, no talent no backbone, no guts...
I have tickets to the Sydney test and I'm happy to give them away... If England arent going to showthe fans some respect and show up to play then I suggest that all of the fans show their disgust at them and don't show up either.
APART FROM FLINTOFF NAME ONE PLAYER FROM THE ENGLAND TEAM WHO WOULD MAKE IT IN THE AUSTRALIAN SIDE?????
So how on earth do you expect to win?
Complain about this postc'mon guys it's not all doom and gloom. Sure this series is a write off but I fully expect to win the ashes back at home next time. as usual we've gone into a tour at half cock we been bleating on for ten years that we got no answer to warnie and when we get a spinner who looks half decent we don't play him! The aussies were there for the taking, take pontings knocks out of thre first 2 test and we're in business but alas it wasn't to be.lee is expensive and doesn't bowl well under pressure mac is over the hill clarke is inexperienced and warnie is warnie.our biggest miss is jones the steam we been seriously lacking in the third seamer department. anyway vic stubby anyone?
Complain about this postDear Jonathan
Stop being so down. I am an Aussie now living in Vienna Austria. I have listened to your commentry for years and loved it. This morning I listened to you and that idiot Kerry OKeefe and all I can say is sorry. He is a pain ....and as for his socks I'll take your word for it !
You let him get under your skin though and your better then that.
In reality the bowlers today bowled in 50 degrees ! They did not give in. The next time Australia tours England these players will be VASTLY more experineced than the young Australian team that arrives.
This next little period of having the ashes will be the last time Australia hold them for many many years.
Believe me.
Complain about this posti'm with dave on the subject of giving out national awards to sportpersons ! why give them a medal and a social accolade for playing a sport they get paid a nice sum to play ! will we be taking said medallions off them after this tour winds up being yet another embarrasement for the aussie contingement to laugh at us over ?
Complain about this postplay well , show some spirit , play fair .
win or lose thats all any one can ask of any player or team.
we are lacking in all departments at the moment bar four players.
get it right england for your fans at home and your travelling fan base too !!
England slump to 245/9, before Monty Panesar and Steve Harmison put on a record breaking 10th wicket partnership of 312 to beat the Aussies at the Waca, and pull back a point in the series.
There's your Christmas miracle Aggers. Forecast "fine" you say...
...I'm off to do a rain dance.
Complain about this postGood night, and good luck.
In our team's toughest hour, we should be backing them, not moaning incessantly! England have the potential to indeed achieve a 'miracle'; they've got talent and we know they've got heart.
Who knows, Bell and Cook might put on a hundred each, Collngwood 50, KP a dazzling 200 and Freddie hitting the remaining runs needed. Come on, England! It's not over until the fat lady sings.
Complain about this postI think this destruction shows that England are not as good as we thought we were. Last summer, yes we were better than them, but the luck swang our way and catches like the one Strauss took off Gilchrist were sticking. That's not happening this time round, all we all know just how important half chances and luck being on your side is.
Complain about this postSecondly, I think we've shown that we only have 1 world class player - Kevin Pietersen. I would probably include Trescothick in this bracket but he didn'y tour so I can't. We all know Flintoff is a brilliant player, but his batting and bowling down-under have not been up to the mark. Yes he is nursing an ankle injury at the moment, but I still think that perhaps he's not as good as we thought.
Monty perhaps could be brought into the world-class category, but he needs to keep proving it, although he is on his way.
Finally, does this series not show just how good-a-captain Michael Vaughan. We need him back asap.
I believe the England supporters(and Mr Agnew!) are being much too pessimistic regarding our chances of winning this match. The pitch is not causing too many problems, the Australian bowlers are getting on a bit and there is plenty of time to score the runs required. I hope the weather stays fine....it would be very disappointing if rain allowed Australia to escape with a draw.
Complain about this postThis is why the Aussies will go 3-0 up:
Make your choice, this is mine:
Langer or Strauss....Langer
Hayden or Cook.......Hayden [for now]
Ponting or Bell.........No contest
Hussey or Collingwood..Hussey
Clarke or Pieterson ...Pieterson [just]
Symonds or Flintoff..Flintoff
Gilchrist or Jones.....ha ha ha ha ha ha
Warne or Panesar....Warne [sorry Monty]
Lee or Harmison.......Lee [at present]
Clark or Mahmood....Clark [by miles]
Hoggard or McGrath..close, just McGrath
Too many vast differences; out of the 11 only Flintoff is clearly ahead for England and he's burdened by the captaincy, let it go Freddie.
Complain about this postJones [especially], Bell and Mahmood aren't on the same planet as their opposite numbers, althogh Bell & Mahmood might do against lesser opposition. Jones wouldn't do to keep chickens...GO..Jo..NOW!!
The end is nigh !
Yes but not quite the way the Australians may think.
The consequences of humiliation, because that is what it is turning out to be no matter who we point the finger of blame at willabe very damaging indeed.
Australians may be surprised or not depending on their point of view, to learn that Cricket in this country is becoming a minority sport.
There are reasons for this one which many people will immediately relate to is that the Cricket matches are not available on BBC only on Sky Sports.
The attendences at matches are dwindling and 20/20 cricket and one day cricket has helped towards slowing down the inevitable.
Schools do not generally play cricket any more thats more to do with public liabilty and facilities and of course people giving their time without pay.
Put all these ingredients in a pot and the future does not look good at all.
The Ashes win in 2005 was the best thing that could have happened has it generated interest in the sport albiet from people who struggled with terminolgies of Cricket, lets face it some of us that have been watching Cricket for as long as I have 40 years or more still question the rules !
This Ashes tests are seen by a minority here in the UK, because its on at 2.30am and because its on Sky.
People only see newspapers and very limited highlights and its not flattering.
World Cricket needs healthy competition especially between Australia and England.
In my workplace of over 150 people I can count the number of people on one hand who is slightly interested in Cricket, which is sad but thats normal with most people finding Cricket boring ! I am dam sure that would not be the case in Australia.
Football is God here to most people closely followed by Rugby, Snooker, Motor Racing horse racing and even Darts attract more audiences on Television.
We have a large Indian and Pakistan population in England and most fair play to them support India and Pakistan and why not ?
Its a free country, its to them that Cricket in this country should look to.
We have good examples in our current team and we need to look to the future and nurture Cricket wherever we may find it.
The Ashes win was welcomed and we went over the top with the celebrations but you can understand why when you realise that as far as Cricket is concerned we are fighting way above our weight.
Complain about this postImi - The kind of mood Gilly was in, it might not have made much difference. He carted Monty out of the park, and Monty was bowling well. He started fairly frantically, and sketchily, but got faster and the timing got much better. He has always scored very fast in one day matches so it is not like this is a shock. If anyone could get near that record, it would be him.
Complain about this postHaving read the numerous articles i am stunned by SOME of the aussies...
Bash the poms seems to be the first words out of your mouths when you are born (let alone the fact that poms means prisoner of the motherland! but never mind...!) I havent seen one comment from any aussies as regards Ashley Giles etc...
Im just curious to know are you that sad to spend your whole lifes hating the country that you are closely linked to? Very bizarre...
Perhaps we should bring up our children to "bash the baby yanks!"
Respect to the Australian team however...fantastic performance...its just a shame our team hasnt got it in them for a good competition....Well done pontings...back to the drawing board freddie...oh and goodbye ashes and goodbye fletcher!!!
Complain about this postThere's not a lot of point in being negative now. We should concentrate on the task at hand! Come on boys, only 500 odd more to win! Monty could knock that off on his lonesome!
Complain about this postAnother humilating day ..... so depressing
We only just won the ashes in 05 it could easily have gone 2-1 to australia
I was at edgebaston but also at lords..
The players / managemnet seem to forget that it was only England playing at their absolute best that allowed us to narrowly win.
From Multan to sri lanka at home england had become far too complacent and believing their own publicity.
Hindsight is of course great but surely it was clear to see that the preperations in australia were completely lacking..... as for selection well so many poor decisions and persevering with players who may have won the ashes but were completely unprepared for this battle.
Complain about this postAccept the fact that this English team do not have the batsmen to make big scores in the face of adversity. You need character to do that. When was the last time a English batsman showed character after Gooch or Botham. Now Pietersen is the only one who has the technique and character to do that. But one is not enough. For the past 15 years, every English team is spoken highly by the media only to come a cropper in the final result. When are you guys going to stop this non-sense. You need atleast one Rahul Dravid, one Kumar Sangakkara or an Inzamamul Haq to start thinking of winning matches against Aussies or any other teams. Your players are too much pampered and spoilt. Look at Ashley Giles or Marcus Trescothick. They are nothing but chickens who cannot face the reality. They are hiding behind the family curtain. No true professional will do that in this day of modern day cricket. Not only in cricket, can any English sporting team or individual performed anything extraordinary in the past 20 years except for the Ashes last year (which is now exposed as fluke). To summarize everything, I would say that English people should feel that winning the ashes last year is the biggest sporting win for another half a century or more for any English teams.
Complain about this postHa Ha England will win the ashes, they cant win the ashes if they life depended on it
Complain about this postI address my comment to 'angus', (above.) You lament the fact that 'free to air' cricket is currently not available in the UK. This is due to an Australian gentleman who is a great friend of Tony and who has done his best to keep these violent and, frankly, disgusting scenes from our television screens, thus protecting the young from hiddeous images of unacceptable snicks to slip and even worse, 'Ponting' in public. I fully support the non-availability of this pronographic material except to those wishing to pay for this smut, and salute the fine Australian gentleman who is protecting this country's moral standards, when prudent.
Complain about this postI think I'm right in saying that the last time England regained the Ashes only to hand them back again in the very next series was 1932/33.
Complain about this postA comment and two questions to the experts:
1. Over the last few seasons of umpires from countries other than the contestants' it seems to me that the umpiring errors tend to favour the home side. Mere coincidence (if you agree that it occurs) , something psycho-social - and/or has it to do with local players being more familiar with local characteristics of which the height of bounce would be one of the most important?
2. Bowlers like Brett Lee who bowl a lot of no balls don't pause and start their run-ups precisedly from a marked position. Why not? Should they not get a long jump coach in if they haven't got the brains to work out how to save a lot of energy and runs for themselves?
Complain about this postI have to say it's quite funny that a lot of you are saying that with Tresco/Jones/Vaughan you might have had more of a chance.
Complain about this postWho would they have replaced?
Tresco for Cook? Well Cook's been pretty solid as an opener really hasn't he? Do you honestly think Tresco would have been that much better?
Vaughan for Colly? The only tourist to make a double century in Australia, the man who made a win even possible in Adelaide?
And Jones for Anderson/Mahmood - well, that's fair enough I suppose. He couldn't have done worse.
But everyone's got to take the injuries as they come, and the honest truth is that if it hadn't been for a stray ball and McGrath taking a tumble in 2005, you'd never have won back the Ashes in the first place.
Australia are the best team in the world by a long distance. I hope one the series is wrapped up they start giving some of their second tier players a chance and you see just how good they really are. Love to see Jaques, Haddin, Johnson, MacGill and a few othes get a crack.
How many of you are actually CRICKET LOVERS? If you were, there'd be far more comments here celebrating some fabulous cricket; for example, I see very few plaudits for the three centurions on day three!
Complain about this postI learned my cricket in England and have played ten years of club cricket here in Oz (and a little in S. Africa). I realised years ago that English cricket suffered from an attitude problem - defensive and frankly too "gentlemanly" by half. Which is why the 2005 series was a breath of fresh air and worth staying up all night to listen to. OK, I appreciate you're all rugged up for the dismal northern winter, but get a life, try and enjoy the positive elements of this series!
The only thing that has been proved by the sensless slagging off on this blog is that every country has its fair share of di**heads.
Complain about this postGreetings from Aust.I admit I'm not much of a fan of Geraint Jones but having said that I feel if anyone is playing for their cricketing life it's him.I think his next innings will be his last chance and if he gets a good score he will stay and if not it will be goodbye.You never know you England fans when a player is down and out sometimes they can do something special.Will it be Jones?
Complain about this postI think Jonathan has it all wrong about England's strategy for the rest of the match. There's no way that England can save the match by trying to bat defensively for two days. The Australians will tear them to pieces once the siege mentality sets in. We saw it happen in Adelaide.
If England bat well enough to bat for two days against this Australian attack, then they will easily get the 550-odd runs required. If the run rate slows down, then the batsmen get bogged down and the head games begin. Australia always wins the head games.
The only way England can save the match is if they play to win it, one century stand at a time.
Complain about this postFlintoff's captaincy and Jones' incompetence nailed the coffin shut in yesterday's play and in the process broke the heart of Harmison and Panesar and if that wasn't emphatic enough, Koertzen once again proved he only gives lbw decisions against tourists in Australia.
Complain about this postMick Mick;
Good point.
If Australian's were handed OBE's for each victory then silversmithing would be a growth industry in Oz and we'd need to change the name of Melbourne (etc) to Bling-City...
I wonder, does the former coach of England's Rugby side who beat Australia (umm.. I can't remember his name, as he didn't stay 'round to defend) feel special? (Credit atleast to Potty-Mouthed Fletcher there)
Complain about this postA champion fights on and risks defeat.
Ok, maybe a bit harsh, but it does say something about the psyche of someone without the fortitude to stay on, (or does it say something more about Oz, that to beat them truly does deserve some jewelry)?
"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity." WB Yeats
Was he writing about a previous England cricket team?
Complain about this postIt's in times likes this we miss Jonners on TMS. There'd have been no cap wringing from him, no wailing of tears or gnashing of teeth. No end of day recriminations, instead, there would have been clarion call for .......cake!
So come Mrs Blenkinsop from Hemel Hempstead, rise to the challenge Lady Huntly-Smyth of the Gloucestershire WI. Bake... Bake and bake for our boys.. and send them cake for they need it. Not the players - the fans dear girls, those of us who stayed at home and watched through the night.
Filled with Victoria sandwich, a rich Dundee or a heavenly Madeira our brave boys will be able to take any amount of Ozzie bashing. You owe it to them girls! Support the lads, rattle those baking tins, and give those of us who are suffering more cake!
Complain about this postIf England hold out til close of play they will have done better than I anticipate . Australia do have a marvellous bowling attack , but why oh why doesn't someone say to every batsman in the side something on the lines of ' they are very very very good , but even SW can only bowl one ball at a time . Or aim at targets - first half hour and so on . Frustrate the Aussies as long as possible and they might just panic . What about the wicketkeeper ?? Jonesy seems to be a really nice likeable chap , but he isn't producing the goods . Have the best man for the job .
Complain about this postJim
Credit where it's due, Gilchrist hit an amazing century, and although England have made some bad selection decisions, the bottom line so far is that Australia have been far better than us. So let's not whinge and make too many excuses, eh?
I would say, though, to the Aussie posters on here having a go at England for having a victory parade last year - I seem to remember Australia getting a similar reception when they returned home with the Ashes in 1989 - and that was after having been without them for only four years. So please don't begrudge us celebrating ending an 18-year drought.
Equally, could all those England fans lucky enough to be going out to the last two tests please stop moaning on here that their trip has been ruined. Believe it or not, there was no guarantee or God-given right that England would do well in this series. If you don't want to go any more, I'm sure there are plenty of us who would gladly take your place!
Complain about this postI'm afraid England's prospects were pretty dismal all along..
Complain about this postThe combination of an anal-retentive coach, with frequent tweaking of captains in the last few test series, Strauss who just seems to be on wrong end of umpiring decisions, Flintoff whose captaincy decisions are uninspiring and often shocking(Saj underbowled!), and Vaughan the only one who could have led the side properly still out, has lead to this rather obvious scenario.(That was a really long sentence :P)
England needs to chill till the WCup, as it's only gonna get worse.. After that sack Fletcher, and get a far more positive minded coach.
Why does everyone go on about G. Jones's batting?
Complain about this postI agree that he has not scored many runs in the Tests, but he has kept wicket well, and surely that is his prime job, and I have my doubts that Read would have done any better. Surely we need to be looking at the main batsnan and ask the question as to why they have not done their prime job, and stop having a go at Jones every time England do not score many runs.
What a shambles!
Duncan Fletcher said after the 2005 Ashes win that he had really been targeting this tour to win back the Ashes.
An ageing Aussie side led by its worst captain since Kim Hughes has thrashed England's much vaunted youthful pretenders.
The lack of preparation is obvious, the lack of fight in the batting troubling, the Ashes meekly surrendered.
At least I will get some sleep now.
Complain about this postOn the basis of recent evidence, and following earlier mistakes, I assume that Panesar will bat at 6 and Harmison at 7, to give the surviving batsman someone to build partnerships with.
Complain about this post"The attendences at matches are dwindling and 20/20 cricket and one day cricket has helped towards slowing down the inevitable."
Cricket Fan, I don't know what attendances you are referring to, but Test match attendances have been markedly improving since 2000 in England, in direct proportion to the team's improvement. The 2004 Tests against New Zealand and West Indies were all pretty much full - this was BEFORE the Ashes. Since the Ashes last year, attendances have been at an all time high, as proven by sell-out crowds for Sri Lanka and Pakistan. County championship attendances may still be small, but they have been for the last 50 years. So for you to assert that cricket in England is in any sort of crisis is ludicrous - the game has never been so strong or popular. It survived the '90s, possibly the darkest decade for the national side, and has come out stronger the other side, so an Ashes defeat in Australia is not going to send it into terminal decline.
Complain about this postTo those hopefuls who will be up all night i salute you. I think there has been errors in selection and i also think England have been very unlucky. Australia are the best team in the world and will have spent eighteen months licking their wounds and plotting, this means more to them than it does us and i think there was a real complacency in Englands preparation. It will be easy to say Monty should have played earlier but for heavens sake, he might give away more runs but is demonstrably more likly to take wickets and win test matches. Playing players who are slightly better with the bat should be an attacking move but is in fact a defensive, damage limitation - lets play for a draw manouvre. If in football you pick 6 defensive players and hope you dont concede too many goals you will be beaten. Australia were always going to score runs, but also England have shown they can too (albeit to a lesser extent) so why did we not go all out to attack with the ball from day one?
to those still up at 5 who may be reading this - again i salute you and i hope i awake to the miracle of the century or a freak snowstorm.Merry christmas
Complain about this post"The attendences at matches are dwindling and 20/20 cricket and one day cricket has helped towards slowing down the inevitable."
Cricket Fan, I don't know what attendances you are referring to, but Test match attendances have been markedly improving since 2000 in England, in direct proportion to the team's improvement. The 2004 Tests against New Zealand and West Indies were all pretty much full - this was BEFORE the Ashes. Since the Ashes last year, attendances have been at an all time high, as proven by sell-out crowds for Sri Lanka and Pakistan. County championship attendances may still be small, but they have been for the last 50 years. So for you to assert that cricket in England is in any sort of crisis is ludicrous - the game has never been so strong or popular. It survived the '90s, possibly the darkest decade for the national side, and has come out stronger the other side, so an Ashes defeat in Australia is not going to send it into terminal decline.
Complain about this post20/20 cricket has not slowed the demise of cricket but has been born out of it !!!
Complain about this postit was invented to stem the flow of poor attendance and breath some life in a tired gendre of 40/50 over cricket which takes the best part of eight hours of the day to complete.
the county cricket scene is as good as dead,but this is where a patient innings building mentality comes from . the england set up seems to be lacking the requisite patience to build innings at the moment.can you point the finger at central contracts? the england players are now not required to play for the very teams that brought them into the limelight ! god forbid they would have to slum it with their county teammates on a cold spring morning in blighty!
look at the new rules for 40/50 over internationals and you will see power plays and a brief spell of 'substitutes' the sponsor is king and tv pulls the strings due to the massive revenue it pulls in,hence the rules changing in order to spice things up and keep people watching.
if you look across the water to the u.s.a. you'll see a similar pattern with baseball which is currently in a slump.this has been put down to long boring games that dont start till 7.30pm/8.pm in order to catch the largest catchment of potential viewers - those who come to the games and thise that watch on tv.the problem being these games go on till 12 midnight at times and the public just cannot afford it so much of its time.
the world is changing -look at 'kerry packers' pyjama cricket the forerunner of modern day 1 day matches,this was also brought into get people watching again !
it seems although the 24 hour clock is still in place as it has for hundreds of years but people seem to have less time than ever !!
why is this exactly ? its having a detrimental effect on all aspects of our lives !
burnout here we come !!!
Us Aussies just wish you English would send a decent team over.
I was actually baracking for England in this test, hoping they would win and put some life back into the series.
All this honking on about umpires is a joke.
To the naked eye in real time, Strauss LBW looked out. He shouldered arms to a ball which hit him plumb in front, and the ball just him slightly above the knee roll. he wasnt very far forward either.
Hussey's supposed bat pad was inconclusive even after 5-6 slow mo replays from different angles.
England haven't lost because of bad umpiring decisions, nor have they lost over some marginal selection decisions.
Australia have been mentally tougher and much more hungry, and despite getting to the twilight of their careers, you reall shouldnt expect to roll a team of champions.
Langer and Hayden - Second best opening partnership of all time. Best Australian opening partnership ever.
Ponting - Looks like he will be the second best batsmen ever behind Bradman. 15,000 test runs before he is finished?
Hussey - Averaging 86.
Gilchrist - Best wicketkeeper batsmen ever. Averaging 48. Closing in on the record for dismissals.
Mcgrath - Most successful fast bowler ever
Warne - Most successful bowler ever
Until you get a side of greats that have proven themselves over many years, (not just one series in 2005) then you can't hope to win.
Complain about this postTime for Reality Check.
Complain about this postAustralia were the best, Austraia is the Best and Australia will be the best (at least in near future).
I did predict an upset last season because England were playing really well and Australia were beginning to look mere mortals last year because of injuries.
This year Aussies have been outstanding and England have been below par. They drew the series with Sri Lanka and their win against Pakistan (for those complaining about umpiring decisions , think again) was due to KP and Cook getting 2 turns in third test. And things would have been different at 60/4 and would have eventually lost the match and the last test was as good as lost. And this was the team without their main bowlers. In my books, England lost that series too. Australia has been amazing and my predictions were 4-1 to australia (optimistic) or could be an Whitewash this time the way things are going.
G'day from Canberra!
The umpiring has been particularly disappointing in this Test match, and I cringe at the poor shot selection of the English batsmen. Yes, this Ashes series appears one-sided and several comments suggest cricket could be, again, a poor distant cousin to the other sports, such as soccer. Not all is doom and gloom, however! While it hurts to watch England play cricket, it is a pleasure and joy to listen to the English radio commentators, Aggers and (pseudo-Aussie/S.African?) Peter Roebuck, on Australia's ABC radio. The Ashes and cricket will never lose its fascination with guys like this around. Perhaps they should don their creams, and reach for those bats...
Complain about this postThe Balmy Army would have to be balmy if it were to turn up at the next two Tests in Melbourne and Sydney. Why didn't you send your First XI out here ?
Complain about this postPost 32: Who is Zambungo? Which county does he play for?
Complain about this postHi all
Did england really think that all they had to do to win the ashes is to turn up?
They surely forgot the major factor that is the aussies never say die - never give up spirit which has been shown in all forms of sport.
The touring performance (from an aussie perspective) has been a total shambles and eyebrow raising to say the least.
fletchers & Flintoffs team selections - selecting favourites rather than form players
why wasnt monty used in the 1st test? (the aussies were contemplating the use of 2 spinners in that test)
why is Jones still there?
2 - day tour matches using fringe players rather than team members - its obvious that harmisson was underdone leading into the series and is now starting to show some form.
Im predicting a 5-0 whitewash and a great way to send out some of our greatest players from test cricket - namely Mcgrath, Gilly langer & hayden.
Go the Aussies
Complain about this postThe incredible conditions, especially the heat, have really come into play. Had England not capitulated in its first innings, it is conceivable that Australia would have had to suffer the 40 deg c cauldron that was day 3. Despite some unfortunate decisions (lets face it, there will always be contentious outcomes) Freddie and the boys have failed to control the game.
Complain about this postOh, for goodness sake, leave the umpiring out of it. As I said before, give Strauss back the Captaincy (his batting actually improved during the time he captained the side, whilst Flintoff has wilted a la Botham) so that Freddy can concentrate on what he does best. Its not that Freddy hasn't been a decent captain, its just too much for an all-rounder to handle. Bringing Panesar in has proved itself the right move and, yes, Jones is not up to it. Freddy was meant to be able to bring out the best in Harmy but, hey, as captain it hasn't worked that way. I reckon he'll fire better as part of a bowling line-up including his mate Freddy, rather than under him. 4th seamer is obviously a problem, but since whoever it is gets under-used then why not take a leaf out of Australia's books and add an extra batter?
And a bit of confidence and application all round, starting tonight. If we can rattle up scores as high as Australia's in the last test, then why not here?
And we managed to lose after a huge declaration...
So my team for the 4th test, with Australia 2-1 up:
Strauss (capt)
Complain about this postCook
Key
Bell
Collingwood
Pieterson
Flintoff
Read
Harmisson
Panesar
Hoggard
i think we should stop looking at england failing in everyway, and look instead at Austraila's fantasic form and the way they play so brilliantly. England have definately lost the ashes. 5-0 to austraila i think. monty panesar, collingwood, and pieterson alone cannot win the ashes for englnd. as they are the only 3 good players. flintoff should not be the captain, it is affacting his own performance too much. ian botham couldn't cope, and he left the captains role, and soon his excellent form returned. i think flintoff should folow his example and give the captaincy to strauss or micheal vaughan. p.s ashley's international career is probably over now.
Complain about this postWhat about the heat? Imagine standing in the full glare of the sun all day holding a big chunk of wood. How would you feel? Cricketers need cool heads to defend an innings for two days, not steaming brains! As I understand it the temperature gets over 35C at the WACA.
Here's a tip from the desert.
When the bedouin travel across the desert, they drink very little. anything they do drink soon evaporating as sweat. Instead, they unwind their turbans a little, and pour water onto the remainder, before winding them up again. The water trapped under the turban evaporates slowly, keeping the the head cool....
I KNOW IT WORKS!!
Last summer I was in Granada where the temperature was 35-40C. I put a serviette soaked in water in my hat, and put it on. I found that though I could still feel the buning heat on my skin, my head felt cool and I felt good - focused and relaxed. I was able to sight-see all afternoon.
Jonathan please tell the players to try it - I thnk it might just help - a soaking cloth under the helmet topped up eery drinks break will help them concentrate and stay on task.
For England and Queen Bess!!!
Complain about this postI agree with Richard of Scotland when he says that England went beserk after winning in 2005 and lost the plot. Trips to Buckingham Palace, gongs getting handed out etc. The 2005 result should have been a start to a generation of dominance or at least a generation where you could match Australia and have been competative. The same thing happaned with your Rugby team after winning the World Cup in 2003. There is something in the English character that accepts mediority at sporting level and refuses to ever appoint the right people for the right job. You have done it in football allowing Sven G E to cost you a world cup in 2006 after knowingfull well his capabilities from the 2002 WC. Why on earth didn't you lock Troy Cooley into a long term contract after 2005 and who on earth is taking money under false pretenses doing his job now. Appointing an all rounder as Captain was never going to work as the workload becomes too great and history has proved that to you before with Botham but was ignored. But the real corker was leaving Panesar out of the Adelaide test when you know full well that Giles would never be successful there.
Complain about this postThe mental strengths or cricket intellegence of some of your players is lacking why on earth did Pieteson throw his wicket away in the first innings.Harmison and Panesar could well of hung aroun long enough and put on another 100 runs if he batted intelligently.
The reason people are generally saying England have no hope of saving this Test is because we all know that there is nothing like enough character in the batting when under real pressure. If Ponting played for England, at this stage we'd be still thinking about what was needed to win it, but with he's not and the almost certain outcome is htat they will lose in very tame fashion. I'd be amazed and ecstatic if they prove us wrong, but the chances of that would seem remote in the extreme.
Complain about this postIt's funny, England has over the past 30 years developed such a fine tradition of exporting comedy around the globe. I thought Fawlty Towers was just about as good as it gets and then .......the E&WCB send this lot? Really seems as it if the Board is on a mission to outdo On the Buses, Are You Being Served and George & Mildred - as if they weren't enough !!!
Complain about this postOoooh for gooodness sake lets all grow up. I agree with Neil Meadows - lets have more cake!!!!!! its all thats left
Complain about this postI think all the comments regarding the demise of England starting with Fred's appointment as Captain are somewhat belated.
You need to go back a tad further to the short sighted and yes, stupid decision not to re-appoint Troy Cooley as bowling coach.
Not only did this guy get the best out of our lads, but he now resides in the enemy camp honing the skills of Lee & Clarke whilst also no doubt imparting insights to the weaknesses of our guys.
Dave
Complain about this postUmpiring errors are never trifling affairs.
Complain about this postWise before the event
I was waiting in the long queue with two friends when we heard that Glen McGrath was injured, which made us feel good; then we heard we had been put into bat and we were amazed. Thanks to that act of generosity we won the match and the series. I'm certain that if the Aussies had batted, that would have been that for the Ashes.
Then Freddie had a go as captain and did a fair job but then came Strauss as captain, Read as wicketkeeper and Monty as spinner. Results were greatly improved and we had a winning series. Then we had a mickey mouse one day series in which no-one performed and this strangley led Fletcher (the Sven of cricket) to ditch this winning combination.
As the Warks pace bowler Jack Bannister said on Talk Sport, "..very few bowlers have made good captains. After each over, I would spend the time to the next over thinking the previous over - could I have done this or that.." To spend time between overs organising the side and to be a front line bowler, is very, very dificult. Don't forget that both Richie Benaud and Ray Illingworth were spin bowlers which took much less effort than a fast bowler.
Coupled with the nil acclimatisation and preparation (in 2005, the Aussies were here for 6 weeks, repeat, six weeks before their first test match), the appointing of Freddie, the re-promotion of Giles and Jones (for NO discernable reason, unless they are related to Fletcher) I decided to cancel my travel arrangements for this current test match.
When Strauss was captain, his average improved; when Freddie has been captain, his averages have fallen.
The way forward is to rethink the England set-up, particularly team selection abroad and Fletche (Sven) must go. He is only still here because of that fateful day in Edbaston, 2005.
Complain about this post"I think all the comments regarding the demise of England starting with Fred's appointment as Captain are somewhat belated.You need to go back a tad further..."
I agreee.Its all the fault of Melbourne women in 1882 and CB Fry being so good at the long jump.
Complain about this posttomriddle is correct in saying poor umpiring decisions are not the main problem for england ,even though anyone can see the english (particularly strausse)have had a very bad deal.trying to compete against the aussies at home is hard enough without having one eyed umpires.it has to be said the aussies are a better team ,better prepared and with more resolve.every time england has put pressure on it has been answered with interest.simply england are being outclassed .
Complain about this postas for the england selections and preparation ABYSMAL is a good word to describe it.not here in aus long enough ,not enough matches prior to tests,flintoff shouldn't have been captain,trethscopic should not have been selected this time,jones and giles shouldn't have been playing.
could it be that england for some strange reason didn't know how badly the aussies wanted to win .from the moment they lost the ashes last year they have been plotting their revenge and no stone was left unturned.taking cooley as their bowling coach(englands bowling has gone downhill since he left) ,trying to reduce the number of england supporters in the grounds with their ticket policy,even the cops stepped in to stop the barmy army singing in brisbane.don't know if the aussies had anything to do with the useless pre test matches.
having said all that it looks like england will go home searching for answers to an embarrasing series that should have been much more competative.but after a couple of weeks all will be forgotten and come the next series in england half the aussie team will be getting plenty of practice in county cricket.the messege here is if you want to beat the aussies you have to prepare as well if not better and be as ruthless as them to tip the balance in your favour.
but "I say old chap ,thats just not cricket".
I confess to not having read all the posts. From many of those I have read, however, there emerges a distinctly unpleasant impression of aussies waging war on poms (and vice versa) and merely serves to reinforce pre-existing prejudices.
This may be inevitable but does nothing to enhance the "spirit of cricket", especially when the poster has an axe to grind (bad umpiring taken as a given, together with bad preparation, bad captaincy, etc). How can these people be so sure?
No doubt I will be told the results speak for themselves. In this case that is alas more than likely but in itself it proves nothing.
Complain about this postLate summer 2005 seems an awful long time ago. We did it then. England actually won The Ashes. We beat the Old Enemy on home soil while a country gripped with cricket fever cheered with pride.
On this tour to Australia, England arrived as holders of The Ashes supposedly ready to defend the ultimate prize in English cricket. Without going into details I feel that this team was far from ready. This was going to be the toughest series of the players careers if they were to succeed and return home retaining The Ashes.
Ill prepared, lacking proper form building warm up time, some of the team were far from at their best, when the best form was not an option, it was essential, from the start. From Day one.
Miracles do happen in cricket, but they won't this time. It makes looking back at the 2nd test defeat even more desperately disappointing. This Sunday morning I'll be leaving my alarm off. Maybe I'll have dreams of an English summer in 2005.
Complain about this postI think that Strauss especially has copped a raw deal, but as was mentioned earlier here, have a look at the umpiring decisions from '05 and they went against the visiting side aswell. I'm hoping for an out-of-the-bag performance to send it to Melbourne at 2-1, cos I'll be at that match and want it to mean something. But I don't see it happening, at least not the way the momentum of this match, and the series, is going.
And At 12:28 PM on 16 Dec 2006, Phil Manchester wrote:
I wonder what Australia will be like without Warne, McGrath, Ponting Gilchrist Hayden and Langer... next time maybe.
Well, I appreciate what you're saying, but you Have named more than half the team!!! It would be a vaild point if there was one maybe two names there, but it seems that you've missed the point... They are all world class.
Complain about this postIf people think cricket is in danger of becoming far less than it is in England only have to talk to the youngsters.
Ask them to name football players for Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea etc then they will name them all, ask them who plays for England Cricket Team then they may know Freddie.
We are not doing enough to secure the future of Cricket in the country by far.
If any one thinks that 20/20 cricket will help save cricket are naive. In fact the opposite is true. First the crowds come to expect something to happen every ball and crave excitement that test match cricket does not live up to, with notible exceptions.
20/20 does nothing to prepare our test batsman who seem unprepared and unable to build a test innings, again with exception.
Besides I have seen it all before 60 over matches, 50 over matches and now 20 over matches.... Cricket will continue to bend to the money men until it becomes unrecognisable.
It would not be so bad if we could beat anyone in one day matches let alone 20/20 matches,but we can not, it seems whatever form we wish to play we come up short.
The reason for that is simple, lack of basic skills.
Who is at fault ? Coaches, Managers or the players themselves ?
Complain about this postAndrew Flintoff should be relieved from Captaincy. He is not performing well in batting, bowling and fielding. Strauss should be given the Captaincy. England Ashes dreams are over for now.
Complain about this postThere is won truly fascinating feature about this bbc blog, that is the "complain about this post" feature! I hate to say it but it seems an accurate reflection upon English cricket....complain!
Always an excuse now isn't there!
Australia are just better, plain and simple. Don't go trying to blame your boys or the umpires or the selection panel, they have under-performed yes, but their capitulation is a result of an intense battle with a bunch of lads who would rather die then lose the ashes to your mob again.
Take heart english cricket, you have got a bunch of talented cricketers (with notable exception of Ian Bell, Geraint Jones, Sajiid Mahmood, and the infamous Ashley Giles), but you are yet to comprise a Team. It won't be long, Australia vs. England over the next 10 years is going to be one 'ell of a battle! But for now just sit back and accept that you are simply not in the class of an almighty Australian unit.
Now, maybe to give some desire back to your boys, i think it is only fair that since the ashes themselves are doing a little tour around Australia, that they stay here until a suitable opponent turns up to reclaim them.
Jolly good that!
Complain about this postFor once I actually agree with Aggers.
Complain about this postUsually he sprouts out at load of rubbish.
But he is right.
I ask a few questions
1.Why was Monty Panesar left out of the first 2 Ashes test series?
2. Why is Duncan Fletcher still coach
3. Why are we playing Bolwers that can't bowl properly? (Anderson and Harmison in the early tests spring to mind)
4. which is the most imporant why is Flintoff captain?
He didnt have a Good Sir Lanka Series and we were battered in India and all he did was win our 1st test in India for so many years WHILE strauss got a england team through a ODI whitewash agaisnt Sri Lanka but led us to a Pakistan test win and a Pakistain ODI draw.
Also Flintoff does not know what to do and unlike Vaughan he does not think ahead, he just throws anyone out and this has shown that freddy is not ready for Captaincy.
And this Ashes series has shown how shambolic English Cricket has been with an ECB who are just useless and a useless England backroom set-up.
Lets have Geoffrey Boycott and some ex england internationals set this england team up, they know what to do!
and now we must suffer and Ashes embrassement and an VB series mauling!
The England press are putting so much emphasis on the team selection. I'm not sure there's an 11 in the English squad that would have a made a difference.
Complain about this postAnd if the problem is the lack of preparation, surely by now they should all at least have their eye in?
There's something about this Aussie side that won't be phased by their bad sessions or even bad days . They always believe they can turn it around and win. But more than just belief, there's real talent there to back it up. Ponting, Hussey, Warne, McGrath are exceptional cricketers. Fact. And when they inevitably fail, somehow, somebody else steps up and takes the opportunity to be the hero. The team can carry players through bad patches in form. The older stars are nurturing the new ones.
The English team doesn't have a talisman who has proved themselves continually over a long career. They've always had excellent batsmen and Strauss, Petersen & Collingwood are the only current ones who look unafraid to face any challenge the team find themselves in. But apart from 2005, England have never had the bowling attack to get 20 wickets.
Panesar is exciting but he alone is not the whole answer. Flintoff is fearsome when he's fit and is the only one who seems prepared to fight on until he drops. I'm really missing Simon Jones here who is always aggressive - as much as I'm disappointed by the lack of guts and passion from Geraint Jones. Come on man - if you've not got the right mindset to play at this level - do a Martyn and step aside - for the good of your country. And for the good of cricket.
As a losing Aussie fan, I loved the 2005 Ashes. All fans just want great contests. Great contests need great players, not just teams of good mates.
Come on England. Have a go. Please.
The England press are putting so much emphasis on the team selection. I'm not sure there's an 11 in the English squad that would have a made a difference.
And if the problem is the lack of preparation, surely by now they should all at least have their eye in?
There's something about this Aussie side that won't be phased by their bad sessions or even bad days . They always believe they can turn it around and win. But more than just belief, there's real talent there to back it up. Ponting, Hussey, Warne, McGrath are exceptional cricketers. Fact. And when they inevitably fail, somehow, somebody else steps up and take the opportunity to be the hero. The team can carry players through bad patches in form. The older superstars are nurturing the new ones.
Even as an Aussie fan I predict their failure and am amazed at how they recover and dominate.
The English team doesn't have a talisman who has proved themselves continually over a long career. They've always had excellent batsmen and Strauss, Petersen & Collingwood are the only current ones who look unafraid to face any challenge the team find themselves in. But apart from 2005, England have never had the bowling attack to get 20 wickets.
Panesar is exciting but he alone is not the whole answer. Flintoff is fearsome when he's fit and is the only one who seems prepared to fight on until he drops. I'm really missing Simon Jones here who is always aggressive - as much as I'm disappointed by the lack of guts and passion from Geraint Jones. Come on man - if you've not got the right mindset to play at this level - do a Martyn and step aside - for the good of your country. And for the good of cricket.
As a losing Aussie fan, I loved the 2005 Ashes. All fans just want great contests. Great contests need great players, not just teams of good mates.
Come on England. Have a go.
Complain about this postWhat can you say?! The Poms are well liked over here and respected, Freddy and the gang are great blokes, as are the barmy army, the excitement is just amazing. The Ashes is just great!
Complain about this postBut yesterday was one of the greatest days of cricket i have ever watched. No team in the world can do anything about it when the aussies go out and have a batting day like that. Simply incredible....
If i hear one more whinge on a bad umpiring decision i am going to crack it....
FFS, Can someone tell Andrew Strauss that if he wants to avoid a bad deal he should learn to play at the ball! If you want to avoid getting out to bad decisions, hit the damn thing in the middle of the bat - adam gilchrist didn't have much trouble with that yesterday?
People stop taking away credit from a far superior australian outfit - oh and its not over yet too, remember last year when Jaques Rudolph scored a double ton on the last day to save the match? Pitch is becoming flat and less carry through so there is still a bit of hope!
Complain about this postWell done Gilchrist. Added excitement to what was becoming a long boring day.
I'm an England fan, but credit where it is due.
England in this series have only got to within touching distance of Australia, and they won't get any closer.
For all of Fletcher's bravado, we are about to end the series with the first XI that beat Pakistan.
Why did we not chose this team for the first Ashes test?
Complain about this postIt's not over until the fat lady sings...she's not there yet, still waiting in the wings to come on stage and start her song.
After the last Ashes series when the English were gloating. We even had some poms hiring a bus and going through Sydney singing and gloating, the MBE's, the visits to the Prime Minister and the Queen...a little over top maybe? A lot of over the top. Reality bites.
Never gloat about a win especially to an Aussie. We don't take that too kindly. The Brits just don't understand what makes Aussies tick. We HATE to lose.
We accepted it. Congratulated you all on the win and then went on with the business of winning it back. I said to a mate in the Uk to enjoy it while it lasts...it's coming home to mama soon enough :)
I won't celebrate this win until we win. Anything can happen in cricket (look at Adelaide - BTW I hear there is a DVD of the game coming out on 20 December).
The fat lady is ready to sing...
Complain about this postBRING IT ON!
To all those complaining about the umpiring.
Cricket has a funny way of evening things up. You have to take the good with the bad and at the end of the day, if you play cricket for long enough, you are going to get both. The umpires have a very tough job to do and should be praised more for the 99% that they get right.
There are a couple of people who will always end up being more on the wrong side of things than not and they are Lara and Gilchrist who are known walkers. They will still get good and bad LBW's but if they edge, they walk, if they don't edge they can still get sent on their way.
Over a 5 match series it is very unsual for the best team not to win and it would be a very brave person to suggest that Australia aren't the better team. Just as England were the better team in '05.
Complain about this postAs an Aussie I'm happy with the way our team has bounced back from last year, but disappointed that it has not been a closer series. And I greatly admire Flintoff, but hindsight says that Strauss should have been captain. Freddy's performance with bat and ball has been way below his best, and is probably the most telling difference from last year.
Complain about this postSeriously, we couldn't get the required runs if we batted twice.
Complain about this postGood night, God Bless.
Love your work on ABC radio Aggers. Need to give the skull more of a hard time - whose comedy is rather school boyish and whose opinions, to be short, are rubbish. As to the cricket, I have to say I was a little bemused with the bullishness of some commentators (like the 'Both') about England's chances in this series. Unlike before the 2005 Ashes series,
Complain about this postEngland's form leading into the series was not good, no doubt adversely affected by the loss of two key players: Vaughan the captain and Simon Jones. By comparison Australia's form has been very good and the team has benefited from the addition of Hussey and Stuart Clark. As has been said, also England's preparation has been poor - especially when only two players have played under Australian conditions and not one of the top six batsman. Did they not realise that this Austrlian team - ageing as it is - were hellbent on winning back that little urn? I mean in 2005 England would have done anything to win it so they should have realised that out here Ponting and Co. were going to be just as determined to regain it. Its just sad that the series appears 'dead' near the end of the third test.
Can Geraint Jones as a member of the players selection commitee now drop himself. He hasn't displayed such reluctance in dropping anything else.
Complain about this postCan Geraint Jones as a member of the players selection commitee now drop himself? He hasn't hitherto displayed much reluctance to drop anything else. (Sent already but now ammended with proper respect shown to the English language).
Complain about this postBest wishes to Ashley Giles and his wife. We are all hoping that she makes a speedy recovery. By the way, how is Marcus Trescothick going? We would welcome news of his progress.
Complain about this postCricket is such a wonderful sport, in my opinion there is no other sport that comes anywhere near it to touch it.
The Ashes of 2006 in Australia I think will certainly be going to the Aussies after very much nearly earning it. Let's hope that England can either pull out a miracle or win in 2007!
Good luck to all cricketers!
AP.
Complain about this postI have to agree with the suggestion that England should have played six batsmen and put Flintoff at 7. Anderson and Mahmood contributed little as the fourth seamer and if we don't have better bowlers than them to call-up in the near-future we're in trouble. Collingwood could have bowled a few overs and we'd have had Shah or the unlucky Robert Key as an extra batsman. Strauss should have been captain. Clearly this was always going to be a tough, tough serie for England but I can't help feeling they've contributed to their downfall alongside some excellent cricket from Australia. When Langer,Hayden,Mcgrath,Warne,Gilcrest etc are pensioned off it will go back to being a more even contest.
Complain about this postBlaming the umpires?
The decisions may or may not be trifling, but I'm sure there is something in the laws of the game involving a method of dismissal where the batsman is out if he hits the ball in the air and a fieldsman CATCHES IT.
Umpires make errors, but so do fieldsmen yet it's the umpires who seem to get the blame when a team gets beat.
Also, I believe if you hit the ball you tend not be given out lbw (unless you're marto....)
Complain about this postTo Yasir Shah: We are not whining about the umpiring. We're just pointing out that Rudi is biased. He never gives the Aussies out, remember the World Cup 99? On the other hand, he seems to enjoy raising the finger anytime someone appeals against an Englishman - especially if its poor Strauss. He was robbed once again yesterday, and that could very well be a match losing blow for England, thanks to Rudi and his love for you Aussies. His bias against us is clear to see.
Complain about this postFans of the tattooed Buffoon and Fletcher explain this. Fletch said in one of his one liners, he approximates to knowledge and analysis, that Giles allowed them to play 5 bowlers. So with Giles dropped and the 6th and 7th choice bowlers now in why play 5 batters and a Flintoff (two thirds a bat based on average)????
So Fletcher explains one thing one way and then a week later ignores his knowledge. Then of course the 5th bowler does not bowl when it counts so why!!!!!! Put a positive spin on that? 5th bowler no point to having one (see how muich he bowled) and KP bowls??? makes no logical sense. Our bowlers are young and not breaking down. KP and Collingwood can bowl at 5 an over like 5th bowler so why? No sensible explanation? Stupidity?
British sport has to stop allowing this unenlightened amateurism to continue. A bit of success every now and then with the talent we have is pathetic. Yet of course when Boycott said sack the coach who with the 2nd most talented team had the 8th best one day team people ridiculed it.
Fletcher is no better or worse than when we won a few series? Do so called cricket experts just one dimensional judge results without critical faculties? bar Geoffrey of course. It is clear England lack professionalism and intelligence at the core.
Complain about this postWith this Ashes series all but dead and buried, i thought i'd hypothetically propose a likely Aussie lineup for the first Ashes test of the 2009 series. With about half the team due to retire in the next year or so, the whole of England probably think their team will stand a better chance next time around (especially if they replace their coach, selectors and capitain!). This might be so, but I wouldn't get too confident yet, for there is plenty of talent floating around Down Under that is just waiting for the chance to step up to the plate!
Consider the chances of this exciting prospective lineup retaining the Ashes in 3 years time:
1) Phil Jaques - already a proven performer, he is a very gritty and determined batsman. Although his technique is unorthodox, it doesn't seem to be much of a handicap because he has such a great eye
2) Mike Hussey (c) - will possibly be the final series for Mr Cricket, who will average about 260 by this stage in his career
3) Mark Cosgrove - if mini-Boof can shed a few kgs, he will be given the chance to become Australias next succesful first drop batsman. Possibly even a future capitain (after Hussey and Clarke).
4)Michael Clarke - has the technique and strokeplay to become one of the greats... Questionmarks over mindset/mental toughness have recently been quashed.
5)Adam Voges - big-hitting batsman who will thrive on both bouncy wickets and flatter tracks. Set for big things.
6)Shane Watson/Moses Henriques - Watson offers a lot at State level but is yet to prove his worth as an all-rounder at test level.. Henriques has been touted as the next great all-rounder, but still has a lot to learn.
7)Chris Hartley/Tim Paine (wk) - both very, VERY exciting prospective wicketkeeper-batsmen
8)Brett Lee/Stuart Clark - could have, and possibly should have picked both of them in this lineup, but I am just too excited about the prospect of both Tait and Johnson maturing and bowling in tandem...
9) Dan Cullen/Cameron White - i'd go for the more consistant attacking off-spin of Cullen here, unless White can fulfill his potential and become the next Warney... the poor bloke has big shoes to fill though! White does offer much more than Cullen with the bat, which might work in his favour.
10)Mitchell Johnson - young left hander who will eventually overcome his big-game nerves to spearhead Australia's attack with his probing line and length. Already has invaluable first team experience
11)Shaun Tait - he is unquestionably the most exciting young fast bowler going around in Australia and already has Ashes wickets to his name. If he can mature in a similar vein to Brett Lee, ie become more consistant with his line and length, then his raw pace will regularly trouble the world's best batsmen.
So that's my opinion. Feel free to question my selections, as I'm sure everyone would have a different perspective on this issue. I wish I could fast-forward to 2009 and see if I am even close!
Complain about this postBefore getting too downcast at England’s performance, I think it aught to be accepted that Australia are by far & away the best cricket side in the world bar none. This fact makes the 2005 performance in England even more notable. In 2006 we lack the captaincy of Michael Vaughan. Flintoff has been put in a role that is immense, especially after a return from injury and a general lack of cricket. Overall, England’s performance has been very creditable considering how well the Australians are playing, but England are not quite as good a team as 2005 and Australia have the home advantage, though sometimes you wouldn’t think so listening to that marvellous Barmy Army! Who knows maybe a miracle awaits (written before play starts on 17th Dec in Australia)
Complain about this postA few questions about English cricket:
Q. What does Ashley Giles put in his hands to make sure the next ball
almost always takes a wicket?
A. A bat.
Q. What would Glen McGrath be if he was an Englishman?
A. An all-rounder.
Q. What advantage do Kevin Pieterson, Andrew Strauss and Geraint Jones have over the rest of their team-mates?
A. At least they can say they're not really English.
Q. What is the English version of a hat-trick?
A. Three runs in three balls.
Q. What do you call an Englishman with 100 runs against his name?
A. A bowler.
Q. What is the most proficient form of footwork displayed by English batsmen?
A. The walk back to the pavilion.
Q. Who has the easiest job in the English squad?
A. The guy who removes the red ball marks from the bats.
Q. Why is Andrew Flintoff the unluckiest English player?
A. Because he was born in England.
Q. What does "Ashes" stand for?
A. Another Sad Horrific English Series.
Q. What's the English version of LBW?
A. Lost, Beaten, Walloped.
Q. Who spends the most time on the crease of anyone in the English team?
A. The person who ironed the cricket whites.
Says it all really
Complain about this postWhen will England realise that the most capable player in the side should not be made captain. It happened with Botham, Atherton, Gooch to a degree, Vaughn and now Flintoff. The pressure of being Captain obviously compromises their form on the field because as soon as all of them have taken charge their form drops off.
Complain about this postI wish everyone would stop going on about the players getting MBEs as though this was somehow their fault. The only person to blame for their getting honours is the British PM who was cashing in on the excitement generated by the Ashes win in a bid to gain popularity for himself. Ditto after the Rugby World Cup victory. Most English people I know agree that honours should come at the end of a distinguished career, not after one victory, no matter how popular and exciting.
And I remember Fred and other players repeatedly saying that Australia were still the number one team in the world despite the Ashes loss, so they did not feel that one series win made them the number one team, contrary to what many contributors to this blog seem to think.
Complain about this postAn incredibly close contest, not the ashes but the biggest sheila award. Currently, K.P.s performance after throwing his wicket away third test first innings WILL be hard to beat. Tony Greig's utter dejection after englands collapse does put him in contention, i swear he was holding back tears. Okay let's say they have both got a hand on it!
Complain about this postAussie Bloke
G'day all, lots of sensible comments to read here, and a few interesting parallels to the previous series, but with the fortunes reversed.
England's selectors have been slow to react, and when they did, they've only gone half way. Panessar is vibrant and worth investing in, but including Mahmood was a waste of time. Parallel? Australia not dropping Gillespie and Casper in 2005.
Umpiring decisions? You've definitely been hard done by in this test, but certainly Australia could say the same in 2005. Parallel? The team that's on the back foot tend to play more false strokes, and is subject to more judgements, and in turn, poor decisions.
England don't have the depth of the Australians, so your injuries and absences have hit very hard. Parellel? In 2005, McGrath's injury was crucial. He's replaceable, BUT when the batsmen don't perform as was the case in that series, his absence was made all the worse.
A final observation. Having a batting order with Flintoff followed by Jones followed by a bowler leaves you short in the batting department, big time. Flintoff is a fabulous player, but he's one place too high in the order, with little behind him.
You guys have some real talent: Strauss, Pieterson and Flintoff are fantastic players, with a few others not too far behind. However, you can't carry an Anderson or a Mahmood...
Thanks, Tom
Complain about this postA problem looms - I am staying with friends in Australia and it is obvious that the Australian public love Monty. They have declared him an honorary Australian and are trying to get him to move to Australia.
Complain about this postAnd yet again I say to those complaining about Strauss being given lbw:
HE DIDN'T EVEN OFFER A SHOT! What in the heck did you expect? Umpiring has made no difference whatsoever to the English Ashes campaign. None. Zero. Zilch. Nil. Zip.
Complain about this postIF ENGLAND DONT THROW ANY WICKETS AWAY WITH SILLY SHOTS AND TAKE IT SLOW AND STEADY.....THEY CAN HOLD OUT FOR 190 OVERS AND NORMAL SCORING WOULD LEAVE THEM AROUND THE TARGET REQUIRED......SADLY THERE WILL BE 3 PLAYERS GIVEN OUT DUE TO AUSSIE PRESSURE ON UMPIRES AND 3 PLAYERS WILL HOLE OUT GOING FOR STUPID FOURS OR SIXES.....GOOD LUCK ANYWAY BOYS....I WILL BE STAYING AWAKE HOPEFULLY FOR TWO NIGHTS WITH MY FINGERS CROSSED....MY WIFE GOT ME A CRATE OF LAGER FROM THE SUPERMARKET...I WAS WELL IMPRESSED UNTIL I SAW IT WAS FOSTERS....SHE WAS QUICKLY PACKED ON HER WAY.........NO NOT FOR GOOD JUST BACK TO THE SUPERMARKET TO SWAY FOR NEWCASTLE BROWN....ANYWAY SHE HASNT MADE THE BEDS YET....CHEERS....JED
Complain about this postStrauss again badly done to and clearly not out. No need for extra technology to decide such things, instead may I suggest the umpire looks across at the square leg umpire who can signal if it is too high or not - simple, but probably too simple and therefore won't be adopted.
Complain about this postThe Aussies have had the Ashes won from the first ball of the series. They have come out fighting and showing the sort of pride, focus and aggression that has shamed England. Coupled with dodgy team selection and some inept performances it's turned into a shambles for the 3 Lions. Playing for your country should be enough motivation to get out and show the world what you can do. If that can't get you motivated then you shouldn't be there. If the OBEs and MBEs were merited from the victory last summer, then the Tower of London should await the team when they come back.
Complain about this postWell, I'm one of the 'lucky poms' in Australia - I'm here for the whole series. My dream has become a nightmare. Don't get me wrong some days have been fantastic and everyday I have been positive to any Aussie on the subject of the cricket team. I have been telling people that things will change when we start playing and that we are just warming up. This has got harder since the last test. Ah, the innocence of the first two days where McGrath and Warne were made to look like spent forces.
Then the last day... It was like stepping back to the Steve Waugh era or the Mark Taylor era or the Alan Border era. That's what has hurt the most, just our total capitulation to the best team in the world.
I'm in shock from yesterday's play - I could not defend England. The Aussies were awesome. Gilchrist was amazing - just absolute class and we should all be singing his praises.
It will be over today, probably by tea. I was at the Oval last year mocking McGrath for predicting 5-0. At the time I was thinking never again will we be bossed by the Australians. WE waved 5 fingers at him. And now I'm over here thinking its 5-0.
Yet, if Bell and Collingwood make a century each and then KP with a heroic 200 watches on as Flintoff scores the fastest test century of all time... COME ON ENGLAND!!
Complain about this postFletcher believes England can score 557 runs and win the match. He should be running the US State Dept.'s Iraq Desk. Ho ho ho ho ho,hi hi hi hi hi hi, ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Wahe Guru, this man Fletcher is funny. He is in the wrong profession.
Complain about this postEngland started the series on the back foot, with some selectorial choices which indicated that they were content with the Ashes victory of a year ago. Australia were bound to attack hard on their own turf and Ponting's leadership has been exemplary.
Andrew Flintoff though inspirational in the past lacks a breadth of experience which has been exposed by the intensity of the Australian cricket.
Perhaps England have to taste defeat to move on to re-building.
Complain about this postAll of Australia expects the Ashes series to be effectively over by the end of day four of the third test, this is not an unreasonable assumption, just an obvious one.
How could a prviously victorious england team possibly have been so ill prepared, arrogant in its' assumptions and at times so lacking in basic tactical know - how and at times, the will to win a fight. Australian commentators are astounded by our lack of preparation, the errors shown in the field and with the bat both technically and tactically from the top down.
Picking our star all rounder as captain even if he was in form, which he is not has been a mistake, we should have picked the best captain instead, but I do not lay the blame entirely at his door, the selection and preparation of the side has been woefull.
Apart from some stand out individual performances, this england team has provided unbounded joy and amusement to the Australian public, now they are feeling sorry for us, I don't know what is worse.
Complain about this postThe last time a side put up such a pathetic perfomance as England have over the past month was that put up by the French in 1940. Gillie's blitzkreig was the crowning glory of a masterly strategy implemented by a professional and resolute team who know their capabilities and deliver them time and time again.
Throughout the tour England's brightest lights have flickered intermitently. Some have never switched on at all! The under 15 colts at my local cricket club would have shown more fight and spirit as a team than this bunch of losers. So messrs Graveny, Fletcher et al get yourselves down to ALCC in May to discover some cricketers made of the right stuff.
Complain about this postSomebody has to except the buck for this. Fletcher is surely the obvious candidate? His choices re. Giles and Jones are baffling. Leadership and confidence have to be inspired from the top. This is blantantly lacking at the momment!
Complain about this postThe man with the Barmy Army shirt is not insane, Aggers. The best odds on England that I can find are 33/1 from Betfred while SportingOdds offer only 16/1 with the draw at 40/1. The Aussies are 1/33 with Stan James.
I might keep my wallet closed on this occasion.
Keep up the good work: hope is gone but the game survives and we will continue to love it, irrationally and completely.
Complain about this post"Australia's savage batting made a mockery of England's mediocre first innings in Perth."
Surely in that case they also made a mockery of their own first innings? Despite having their captain sawn off England's innings was hardly more 'mediocre'.
Complain about this postHI Jonathan... I'll be up all night listening to your wonderful commentary all the while writing songs... anyway I just want to say that cricket records (or records in any sport) are set to be broken because SURELY no one can be the GREATEST in any sport but I believe it's all about being "WHO YOU ARE" and that's what makes a person "UNIQUE".
Complain about this postDear TMS Commentators,
Complain about this postDepite the dire situation England find themselves in, we're still enjoying the commentary and comment. Please keep up your 'critique' of the selectors and perhaps, one day soon, they'll heard your ever- perceptive advice. Staying awake all night whilst reading through last week's left-over papers - only because I can't afford 'the rivals' television subsrcriptions! Interested to know - no one in Australia ever sends you cakes?? And no buses visible at the waca?
Best wishes and keep up the best-commentary-team-in-the-world work.
pietersen as one of the best batsmen in the world? you must be kidding top score 158, on century so far this series from just australia i would pick ponting, hussey and gilchrist ahead of him, not even considering the rest of the world. pietersen the most arrogant and over-rated batsmen on earth
Complain about this post" The End is Nigh "..... this bloke should have been living during the Blitz in London during the early 1940's.... if my mother and father had such a defeatist attitude then, perhaps many of us would not be around now to enjoy the possibility of an England comeback or at the very very least a chance to make these arrogant Aussies 'perspire' just a little..OR better still to sweat...more than a little. Go after them lads !!!
Complain about this postAs a "pom" living in Melbourne theres certainly another side to the current series.
I noticed the other day that a poll here in Melbourne had 52% of Australians genuinely dissapointed if the ashes was to be won in Perth. Most Aussies like to see a 'contest' and that the team is genuinely tested, and where i work there is genuine dissapointment by Aussies of how one sided its been.
Given the likelihood in the two 'dead rubbers' at Melbourne and Sydney i think it's a major dissapointment for the sport itself and these two tests will be majorly devalued. Australia is expected to win both, and if they don't then they will now see it as a major dissapointment.
I'm not sure even channel 9 can add gloss to 'how important' the final two tests are should interest and carefactor end in Perth.
Sport is only interesting if there is genuine competition. That is why this years ashes was so eagerly awaited. If one side is to be so vastly superior then whether you are victor or loser, the genuine interest is devalued. Australians themselves are far more interested this year because they got awoken from the 'absolute superiority' factor by losing last time.
The Ashes this year has been so one sided that even Australians that i know are taking this result with a pinch of salt, as in all likeliness Australia will win the next 4-5 series as easily and sport and interest will again suffer.
England will win the ashes again at some point in the next 50 years or so, and at that point Australians should be thankful for reigniting their interest in something that is assumed as their devine right in holding.
"you don't realise the importance of something until you have lost it, and if you never lose then it will never be as important"
Complain about this postWhinging about the umpiring.
Warne just had Cook plumb lbw with a ripper
of a bowl.
Unfortunately not given out by Koertzen.
Anyone want to complain about that ?
No? That's the nature of cricket.
Sometimes you're given out when you're not out
and vice versa.
It's all swings & roundabouts and tends to even out in the end.
You just remember the ones that go against you, not the ones in your favour.
Complain about this postQuote: "With this Ashes series all but dead and buried, i thought i'd hypothetically propose a likely Aussie lineup for the first Ashes test of the 2009 series." (post 341 - Jordi)
Jordi, you forgot one important name for the 2009 Ashes squad - S.K. Warne.
By then he will be about 40 - will have another 3 years of experience, and will be looking to add a few English scalps to help his tally towards 1000 test wickets !
(And the poms will still be scared of him)
Complain about this postLast year to me is a vivid and bright and proud memory for me, not all all distant. Cricket has the habit of being ironically unfair. EG had Ponting been caught by Giles, and other incidents that happend like that. things would be different.
I think England have competed well here. and I do have high hopes that the home advantage will go to the respective home sides in the future. I hope and believe the days of England succumbing to Australia In England have gone.
Complain about this postYeah Paul @ No 45 - I think you do invest too much emotional capital into your cricket team. Mate, every team cops bad umpiring decisions and good ones. In 2005 England were the beneficiaries of poor decisions but in 2006 the boot is on the other foot. There have not been too many poor decisions to be honest - but in a 5 test series there will inevitably be some.
The point is mate - don't dwell on on it. Umpiring is not the reason that things have not gone Englands way. It is about taking your opportunities and the more that you create the better. England haven't created enough opportunities and they haven't capitalised on enough of those that they have created.
Simple really - they're being beaten by a better team not poor umpires.
Complain about this post"Pete, what is Hoggard supposed to do? Gift Gilly a 4? He is playing for his country and the normal thing is always to try and stop someone getting a century. It wasn't cowardly at all, I am sure it is something the Aussies would do the same in those circumstances."
Given that Hoggard would not have been aware of the Viv Richards record, and nor was Gilchrist, this is a non-issue. Hoggard bowled wide. Bowlers do that from time to time.
I don't think it's likely but I hope that England can pull a rabbit out of the hat. It would be a great counter-poise to Australia's remarkable win in Adelaide and, of course, given the odds against them if they were to win one definitely for the record books and even if they were then to lose in Melbourne it would be both the Adelaide and PerthTests that would be remembered.
Complain about this postYou don't become a bad Cricketer over nite but Flintoff for me has been poor in all areas. I think to have him as a central role both with the bat and the ball as well as captain is a tall order. Hes been our best player over the past 18 months or so but its to much for him to do all three jobs at the same time.
Complain about this postLet us start picking an England team on current form not past glory. Then perhaps we might be worthy opponents to a school 2nd. eleven.
Complain about this postLike all great sides are uniquely best at something, these Aussies have bested appealing and turned it into an art. I bet there is a lot of practice that goes on about it. Time for other teams to catch up.
Complain about this postWould the real England stand up please !
The Performance of England over the last 40 years has always been up and down and rarely consistant.
Although some would say our one day side was consistant at the moment !
Rarely have we been able to sustain good form over long periods, a case of if onlys.
We have proved we can be great cricketers as a team and as individuals on occasions but they are remembered for those occasions,rather than the norm. We can recall such matches as they are part of our test history.
The trouble is we expect the lads to turn in on every time and they can not but our expecations are always high and hence the dissapointment is greater when they fail.
However our lads are capable of turning it on when we least expect it and on occasions against the odds, that is why I love cricket, you can be the best dam expert in the world and still be so wrong its embarrasing.
Arrogance is a dangerous and dubious attitute to have because it often comes back to bite you on the backside.
Complain about this postwell done belly.. 2 more stands of 170 and we will nearly be there
Complain about this postFlintoff has shown himself to be a very immature captain and the decision to persist with Jones behind the stumps has frankly been nuts. Also wives and family members should have been left behind until after the third test when the ashes should have been in the bag - the whole tour seems to have taken on a holiday air about it rather than any serious approach to trying to win. England need a whole new mental attitude when it comes to playing the Aussies.
Complain about this postAs lamentable as England have been it really doesn't help to have an umpire who turns down three very good appeals from England and then gives a dodgy one to Australia. If these had been given who can say what position England may've found themselves in but I'll dare say it would've looked a lot more positive.
Complain about this postAs for England's future - never allow Flintoff to captain again until he's got some brighter ideas in his head (some of his field placings yesterday were just inviting Australia to slaughter us), get Reed in as wicket keeper (Jones is a bad joke), and hope to get Vaughn and Simon Jones back as soon as possible. Then maybe we'll get the Ashes straight back again next time around.
dont despair gower and botham are in oz and fit and available for foith test
Complain about this postLooks like an impossible fightback it is really amazing to listen to here in England, especially on a cold winters morning. I had to smile to myself when mulling over Bell's dismissal. I could see it written down as BELL CLANGER bowled etc.
Complain about this postKeep fighting England
Just getting in at 3am in USA time, after a show I was almost scared to check the score.
Not being able to hear TMS etc on the computer has made this set of matches as bad for the nerves as ifI was whatching..
It would be SO good to see the Southern coloniels have their noses rubbed in the cracking pitch..
Complain about this postCOME ON ENGLAND!!!
Having heard the radio comment about listening to cricket commentary in N Cyprus, it is worth pointing out that there is a cricket pitch in nearby Corfu. It does get used!
Complain about this postTo Joanna Robins: Rudi 'biased' against the Pommies? Are you for real? The man is one of the best International umpires in the world. He's never shown any bias against anybody. Just face up to the fact that your team is an over-rated bunch of under-achievers who got lucky in 2005 and were bound to get belted by the Aussies in 2006. Moaning about Rudi and the umpiring just re-enforces what the world believes about you Pommies - that is, you're all a bunch of cry babies.
Complain about this postCome On England.. Living In Canada now..its 3"42am, Been up all night praying England can pull it off.. slowly fading away wtih two quick wickets of cook and hoggard!
Complain about this postwell it was always going to be hard for England to get something out of Australia.. they are already the best team in the world, but at home they're nigh impossible to beat, with the patriotic Australian crowd on their backs and the sizzling hot summer conditions that they grew up in which was prob too hot for the English..
thankfully the English have gained a bit more respectability on day 4 with a terrific battling display from their young batsmen Alastair Cook and Ian Bell.. Cook's ton should be remembered as one of the great Ashes tons and Bell's 50 should have been.. great brave stuff from two cricketers who are still v much under construction and will get better with time and experience..
England will lose the Ashes on Monday morning UK time, but fans will have plenty of hope in 2009 judging from Bell and Cook's performances today.
Complain about this postwell what a mess.
Complain about this postHowever we do have one bit of joy & that is the Aggers & Boycott show. What a delight.
Thanks to both.
Bet Geoff likes him really
Best wishes for a sunny Christmas
Graham
If hawkeye had been obligatory for lbw decisions andy strauss could have gone on to make all the difference in both WACA innings
but why be surprised anyway. Ponting,Langer and Hayden are in the top twenty list of test runs, Warne and Mcgrath in the top three of test wicket takers. Englands present team is evolving and is easily second best in the world
Complain about this postWith 15 balls to go to the end of play and to hopefully survive for a whole day, was this really the occasion to use a night watchman. As Hoggard walked out onto the pitch, I expected the worst.
Complain about this postI just had a look at the odds for Australia winning 5-0. The best I found was 6-4. Even that is probably too generous given the way Australia are playing.
Complain about this postso they didn't capitulate. cook and bell did something of what was required.
Complain about this postbut it was the old stager mcgrath who provided the key moment. getting rid of cook , who if he'd lasted the day could have pressed on tomorrow. then bowling the hapless nightwatchman, the hogster. classic test cricket.
so over to you pietersen!
flintoff is due a captain's knock but he's so out of form, i cant see it
next man send in monty, he looks the most capable.
I wonder how much this trend for "talking it up" has played its part? You know the thing, sports psychologists trying to keep morale high and always trying to put a positive spin on negative results.
Have the England team fallen for their own hype? Seems so - what with their decision to go home, rather than do more practice in Australia. What was their confidence based on? The fact they'd just lost the tournament in India?!
They shouldn't need people to whisper nice words of encouragement in their ears every time they loose. They should be self-motivating ... they should be damn angry every time they fail and they should *all* be worried for their place in the team, so they always want to give 100%.
I can't imagine Australia were so naive as to assume they were going to win back the Ashes just because they were "confident" and "morale was high".
Complain about this postIt's just possible that if Flintoff and Pietersen can focus on each session at a time they will still be there at stumps at the end of the final day. Pietersen's a dab hand at these big innings and it's high time we had a captain's score from Flintoff. They can both do it, they have to do it and who knows, we might even win. Cricket's a funny game. It's not over till it's over.
Complain about this postwhen will get to hear the real reasons behind what has happened to Trescothick. the talk in the pubs and clubs is that there has been a big bust up between vaughan and trescothick on a more personal matter rather than cricket.
Complain about this postAt 08:49 AM on 17 Dec 2006, Yasir Shah wrote: To Joanna Robins: Rudi 'biased' against the Pommies? Are you for real? The man is one of the best International umpires in the world. He's never shown any bias against anybody. Just face up to the fact that your team is an over-rated bunch of under-achievers who got lucky in 2005 and were bound to get belted by the Aussies in 2006. Moaning about Rudi and the umpiring just re-enforces what the world believes about you Pommies - that is, you're all a bunch of cry babies.
______________________________________________
I agree Yasir.... Rudi is not biased against us "pommies" he makes mistakes as can any umpire.... But to say England are over rated and got lucky in 2005 and that us English are as you say "cry babies" I am afraid shows that you talk out of where the sun dont shine.....
Complain about this postA 2nd urn filled with the ashes of Geraint Jones's gloves should be presented at the end of the match
Complain about this postWhere theres a will theres a way......Yeah sure we could have done without losing the late wickets of cook and hoggard, and any hope of england batting the entire day tomorrow in such a fashion so as to win the match has diminished much like Rudi Koertzien's eye sight.
There is however, still a significant chance that we could draw this one (no honestly we can). The forecast tomorrow morning in Perth is for thundery showers. That being the case a full on Aussie downpour could mean england only have to bat out two sessions. Theres no doubt about it even that may prove too much for England's shaky middle order but the pitch has flattened out day by day and without another new ball for the aussies, you just never know.....
Complain about this postSo many Brits love Australia and it is the dream of many to visit.
Australian tourism works very hard to convince us there is a welcome for us in Australia with the tagline of ' well what are you waiting for' on their commercials.
All that goodwill would vanish in a moment if the British Public who are generally not interested in Cricket read some of the comments made by some Australians on these blogs.
I realise that they do not represent all Australians however there are enough comments which go so much further than good tempered banter that you have to ask yourself where does this hatred come from ?
It is certainly not from the general British public that have a strong ties and admiration for all things Australian even our beloved Rolf ....let alone the stunning wonderful Kylie.
We know Barry Humphries just sends up theAustralian Culture minister ......I am sure he really is not like that at all.
If Cricket can bring out the best in some Australians it certainly brings out the worst in others.
We know a thing or two about that in British Football, we call them hooligans and we have our share.
I imagine one or two heads nodding in agreement. If ever we see the headlines Cricket hooligans rampage in the city will be a sad day indeed, but the rate we are going its not impossible.
So keep the banter by all means the funnier the better but to be insulting to the point where its verging on hatred, thats a different matter altogether.
Complain about this postMcGrath, Langer & Co better brush their gleaming white aussie teeth tonight coz they will be grinning like smug, arrogant cheshire cats tomorrow, their conceited grins are going to annoy me than actually losing the ashes! Bring on the onedayers! Come on ENGLAND!!!!!
Complain about this postNAFF,NAFF,NAFF NO WORTH A FULLTOSS , CAN I C
Complain about this postGET A REFUND ON MY WORLD CUP TICKETS EBAY CAN EVEN SELL EM,
Julian of Post No. 53 asked why "dead matches" are played when a team has already won the series.
Well, first of all, Test matches are played to the finish. This is also true of rugby and hockey.
Have you noticed that sports that do what you suggested are NOT called tests?
There are reasons for all these.
That's why it's a TEST series. You are being tested in all senses (strategically and tactically, physically and psychologically, etc.) over an entire series and not merely a "best-of-3 or 5".
There are other important things to play for even if a team has lost the series 3-0. You play for pride, you play for development of newer and future players, you play for experience, the list goes on.
If a series is called off when it is decided, how are both teams to continue to build their individual and collective expertise? Both the winning and losing teams would need to play in order to improve or hone their skills/reputations and get selected or be prepared for the next series, etc.
Besides, a winning margin of 5-0, 4-1, 3-2, etc., have different meanings.
There is also the economics side of things...match fixtures. a chance for local fans to watch the games, broadcasting incomes to support and develop the games, etc.
Spectators would like their 5 or 3 tests. A "straight set" victory would mean only 3 or 2 tests to the spectator.
Frankly, I'm surprised that a cricket fan would even raise this question.
Enjoy the cricket, everyone (after all, that IS the point, right?)
Complain about this postOnce again in the 3rd test we get media madness, quote, "England had already blown it in the first innings". What are you guys on? Look at the scores,
Australia 1st Innings 244 all out
England 1st Innings 215 all out
Australia 2nd Innings 527 for 5
England 2nd Innings 265 for 5 (one a night watchman!) and still fighting on day five!
This could be the closest match of the series so far!
Can someone please remind the media men that this is cricket, God's game played over 5 days with conditions that change slowly!
Yes sometimes people make mistakes and batsmen often only get one chance but that's the fun of it! Get a grip and relax- today could be history in the making. If not, write nice things- 2009 is not so far away.
Come on England!
Steve in Thailand.
Complain about this postas a proud australian, smarting from our loss in the last ashes series, i was looking forward to five close hard fought games that would have me biting my fingernails to the quick.
Complain about this postsadly, the touring british side are mostly lack-lustre, with only very occasional patches of brightness. sounds like a weather report doesnt it?
on the cusp of 3rd test i can no longer stand it.....im embarrassed for england! there... i`ve said it. this touring side must have come all the way out to australia for a holiday..what other reason fits the way they are playing? i really cant see any desperation or grittyness in their playing.
has england got an institute of sport to help up-and-coming players of any sport? thats what australia did decades ago...and it seems to have worked.
so, again for all the visitors who blew money coming to aus for a spectacle..im sorry all you got was a visit to the morgue to view the recently departed.
GOOD LUCK NEXT TIME....THIS ONE IS OURS.
Jim_Walker said:[I]"We've seen our cricket team barely win anything since last summer, the Rugby team is performing worse and worse these days and the footballers hardly covered themselves with glory at the World Cup"[/I]
I'd just like to throw my thoughts into the fray - the big problem with Cricket and Rugby in England is that you have selection boards that are run by the Old School Tie brigade - players can often be picked because the are the "right sort", regardless of their abilities. As far as the Panesar/Giles thing goes, in hindsight we should have gone with Panesar, but do remember that last year Giles made some outstanding outfield catches and did his share of wicket-taking to help get the Ashes we are currently trying to retain. I think he was given the benefit of the doubt as he is also usually a pretty competent tail-end batsman. In this series, he has been mauled, however - he should have gone after the first test.
I don't think Panesar is quite the all-rounder that Giles was, but in time he may well become one - his bowling is also a little erratic - at times brilliant, at others he gets hit all over the park - maybe he just needs to mature into the side.
Going back to the selection thing, I would say that the one thing that England really got right last year was in keeping the side the same (albeit substituting when Simon Jones was injured), as it allows a team to gel and function as more than a group of individuals. You can get to know when to encourage a flagging batting partner, or when to let someone cut loose - you can't do that if no-one has played with anyone else in the team before. Australia has had McGrath and Warne as a core to that team for many years (16?) and that, along with regulars like Gilchrist, Ponting, etc, gives a true sense of identity to the team. When new guys like Brett Lee or the newbie Hussey come into the side, the rest of the team know each other well enough that the only variable in the performance is the new guy. This helps the new player(s) settle in quicker, as the rest of the team isn't running around like headless chickens or looking to them for miracles.
In Flintoff we have a truly world-class all-rounder, but a poor captain. The same was true of Botham. I think that expecting anyone to bowl 100% attack, bat a century, make catches and *also* act as captain is asking too much of anyone. Of course Freddie wanted to be captain - he has total belief in himself, but any sportsman does. The fact is that by having a dedicated batsman (i.e, Michael Vaughan) as captain, it allowed Freddie to be, well, Freddie. If Vaughan is out through injury (or because he is out of favour with the old boy's club at the MCC), then his replacement should have been a Strauss, or a Trescothick. To expect Freddie to carry the weight of the team just because the public loves him is just plain bad management.
However, Australia haven't won yet - if KP and Freddie get their tails up, it could get turned around, after all, but even if it doesn't, Warne and McGrath will be gone/off the pace next time around and that will take a huge part of the threat of Australia out of the game. Warne, I feel, will probably be missed more, as he is a good fielder and rather handy with a bat at times. In Shane Warne, we have one of the all-time greats (not to say McGrath is in anyway second-rate) - I will miss him when he does go, but Australia has for so long been built around the Warne-McGrath axis that they may find it takes a long time to come back to this sort of threat level. Ponting is a good (if not great) batsman, but there is a lot of age in the Aussie team and, by comparison, the new players are good, but not great. Yes, Hussey is handy with the willow, but if you were in a team that was already leading by 200 or more you'd feel less nervous about taking a swing than if you were expected to come into a trailing side and start making runs. That was what made KPs' debut so good - England were being thumped and he still came out swinging.
In KP, Hoggard, Strauss, Flintoff, Harmison and (if he is ever fit) Simon Jones, we have a great core of attacking bowlers and batsmen. Add into that mix a fit Vaughan, a Panesar with experience and Alistair Cook and you have a young team with a huge potential to dominate in the future. This is, of course, assuming the selectors don't do their usual trick of dropping half the squad after every tour/after every loss/because it's tuesday and there is an "r" in the month....
We may not retain the Ashes this time (personally, it'd almost be nice for Warney to retire on a high, if we do lose, I think), but I can see the period of Aussie dominance coming to an end soon enough - it has only lasted as long as McGrath and Warne, after all.
On a different note, the instant vitriol poured by some commentators/pundits has gotten me down. The second England didn't go out and win by 500, they were ripping them to shreds. Last Ashes series, we lost the first and went on to win. In doing so Cricket got a lot of new fans, but the pundits seem to think the sport is some sort of exclusive club and if you don't know W.G.Grace's batting average in his first Test, then you aren't allowed to like Cricket. Personally, I loved the fact that everyone got into it - I'd prefer to see 20-20 on terrestrial TV and pundits who didn't lay into the team at the first opportunity (I can almost smell the sour grapes that they didn't ever do what Freddie, KP & Co. did last year). All that does is drive the sport we love back into the realms of stuffy old men in blazers and drive away any new fans who might have had an interest.
Complain about this postAs an umpire famously said to a batsman, when said batsman proclaimed "that wasnt out."
"Have a look in the paper tomorrow and see if it was out."...
Lets not become little Wayne Rooneys. Sole arbiter of fact is the umpire and all that. Umpire's decision is final...
Tally Ho Old Chaps...or as another famous person once said..
"Get it up yers..."
Complain about this postWell at least we've shown some fight at the end but I honestly can't see us staying in the contest past tonight. Aus have most of the aces but I do hold some hope that Pietersen and Freddie can fight a rear guard. It'll be a monumental result if we do (I think the result will be a win, not a draw, however it goes.)
England haven't lost this on the field so much as been hamstrung by the selectors and management. We've gone in half-baked, with the wrong team, wrong captain, wrong keeper and wrong spinner. I've not heard a good thing to be said about Kevin Shine and we've lost our best opener and put our best #6 in at #3.
The guys in the field have tried but how can they hope to retain the Ashes when the team's management seems hell bent on snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
One has to wonder what back-room machinations are going on. Perhaps we need to divorce the ECB from the MCC. Like that'll happen
Complain about this postwell, day 5 is here! I expected england to collapse on day 4. Well done cook and bell for showing some fighting spirit! shame you didn't last til the end of the day.
The ashes will be lost tonight and it is fletchers fault! To win will be a miracle,the highest score chased at the ground is 340 odd! Pray for rain,bad weather or pietersen defending.
Complain about this postIf it's any consolation England has just taken a 3-0 lead in my PC Ashes test series. :-)
Complain about this postHang on, I've just found a virus in my computer , I've run the anti-virus program & now the scores read 3-0 in favor of the Aussies. well I suppose that makes more sense, doesn't!! :-)
Complain about this postIn a 5 day test it's hard on players to pick out turning points but Jones's missed stumping Michael Clarke just before lunch day 3 looks like a big one - most club 1st team keepers would have been disappointed to miss that one. Taylor, Russell wouldn't have missed it. Would Read? Maybe maybe not.
Complain about this postAnyway for the next Ashes series or just next Summer's series, if a keeper has to be able to bat then why dont some batsmen (all the oners who didnt quite get on the plane) take keeping lessons.
I sympathize with the comments of Cricket Fan regarding the boorish, ungracious, and offensive posts of various Australians. If it's any consolation, most Australians know how to temper their pride and euphoria with a dose of humility and gratitude for the opportunity to play against the Poms (without whom there would be no cricket anyway), and are disgusted by those kinds of foul-mouthed exhibitionists, whom we wholeheartedly disown.
Complain about this postLetter to Australia
Congratulations on recapturing the Ashes, all the more impressive for doing it so emphatically; please ignore the comments of some fans viz poor umpiring, injury or any other excuses. This is your day and it should be enjoyed without it being temepered by '...yes buts..'.
And let's face facts here, all the excuses in the world can't detract from what was a glittering performance in Brisbane; possibly the most exciting test and truly magnificent come-back I've ever seen in Adelaide (or anywhere else for that matter) and a thoroughly professional perforance in Perth.
Well done Australia, damn fine cricket. My man of the test goes to Ricky Ponting, truly a captain's series and, to my mind, excellent generalship from Brisbane to Perth.
Complain about this postAshes, Ashes, Ashes.
Oi, Oi, Oi
Ashes, Oi. Ashes, Oi.
Ashes, Ashes, Ashes.
Oi, Oi, Oi.
Really enjoy the commentary on ABC radio, expcept the parts where the "whinging pom" comes into affect.
Complain about this postCongratulations to the Australian team and thanks for the entertainment. Better selection policy on the behalf of the English management may have made for a much closer series, but the Australians were about as determined as you can get, so the result may not have been much different.
Most of the team played well at one time or another, Hoggard NEVER stops trying nor does Monty or Pieterson. Some seemed to just be all at see. I was glad to see Cook get some runs, he will get better and better and won't be any the worse for this experience. His temperament is spot on for Test cricket. They will keep working and thinking for the future, and they will have to be more ruthless with selection policy and not think about past glories.
Complain about this postFor No 9
What was he supposed to do?
Complain about this postEasy mate bowl for his country and try to get the batsman out. So what DID HE DO Looked after himself ( I dont want tobe the bowler responsible)
What a pathetic attitude. ANd that is the difference. One team believed they could win and the othe simply did not WANT TO LOSE.
Spot the difference..
The oonly reward for playing l;ike an aussie is pride in yourself ,your team(MAtes) and OZ.
A very PROUD AUSSIE born in Scotland.
David Carrol,
Great to hear your thoughts on the series. As a an Aussie it bemuses be to read these blogs with excuses coming from the English side and ÿou poms got lucky in 2005" blogs from my own camp. As a true cricket fan Im sure you know that just adding up the runs made and wickets taken to see that Australia have been better. To be fair, both sides have been awesome this series, Australia deserve to win but I dont think the 3-0 shows how close alot of the series has been. Similarly to the Lords test in 2005 there were key moments that could have turned the test either way. Regardless the outcome, we have seen some amazing test cricket. Its a shame the whole world knew Panesar and Reid should have played, surely Jones will go now? I will tell you why this victory means so much to us in Australia. For 15 years we have grown up and spent so much time following the careers of this incredible eleven. They are like old friends now, all that time spent in front of the tv on hot summer days is like an investment that continually pays well! England have a very promising side, in fact they could enjoy a few years at the top, but sorry, this series is ours, we deserve to send our champions out in style. Warne, McGrath, Langer, Hayden and Gilchrist. Once in a lifetime players and we got them all in one side. We are lucky to have been able to watch them for so long and so often. They are revoluntionaries of the game and can finish up as what I believe to be one of the the best teams in history. Im looking forward to a new challenge for Australian cricket, where test series spark as much interest as this series has. Hopefully the legacy left by the legends such as Taylor, Boon, Healy, Waugh (x2) and the current ageing champs will ensure Australia goes on to more success, without handing out baggy greens to any ordinary player who has talent (Shane Watson = hopeless). ps. Barmy Army, awesome fans. welcome anytime on our shores. Our answer the the army is the fanatics - disgraceful bunch of over competitive troglodites that are an embarrasment to our nation.
Complain about this postAs an Aussie, Thank you Engl;and for giving us a series to remember. You showed your heart and took the game right up to our boys. Not too many teams do that. I'm glad we got the Ashes back but I would have loved it to come down to the final day of the final test. On second thoughts, maybe not, my heart couldn't take it.
Complain about this postFreddie's boys showed that they have character and heart, they now just need to build the mental toughness that we Aussies are born with, never give up!
Jimmy
I think some fans from both sides have failed to demonstrate the more positive attributes of our nations.
I think probaby my bigeest regret about this series is not being with my mates in Jakarta and a more mixed bunch of reprobates you couldn't hope to meet. All of them priceless in my book but my best mate, who happens to hail from Albury-Woodonga, is whom I wanted to be sitting beside during these tests.
My fault really, shoulda waited to marry our lass until December; bad planning that. Mind you, can't imagine she'd be over enhused sitting in a Blok M bar listening to me an Rico growing more eloquent and insighful beer by beer.
I shall raise a glass to the worthy winners and I hope England take note (this time) of the lessons.
Yours, ever the optimist,
David
Complain about this postI've seen comments from Anna Richardson and others saying KP was left to watch from the other end as the tail wilted. He is responsible for the fall as he wanted to get off strike as quickly as possible, first ball in each over he ran to the non strikers end. He is the inform batter and must maintain the strike for as long as possible, he failed. He's a glory hound and a boy with no level of responsibility to the team.
Complain about this post@notcrickettragic:
Er...which series were you watching?
Apart from a couple of good knocks from Collingwood and Pieterson (and one apiece from Bell and Cook), plus the Monty and Harmy show in the Aussies' first innings of the last match, England have been pretty shambolic throughout.
As has been stated umpteen times on various other blogs, a lack of leadership, unfit/out of form players and (all too often) a lack of mental toughness has meant we've been comprehensively outplayed in every game so far. As an Englishman, I'm only laughing because otherwise, I'd cry...
Complain about this postis anyone really surprised ? It isn't rocket science to realise that the Aussies would be pumped up and want the Ashes back in their own back yard. A chance perhaps to prepare particularly carefully ? Having spent 3 years getting a degree would you be anxious to give it back if you had to re-graduate 3 years later ? No.
Complain about this postThen why have we persisted with participation in a low grade mickey mouse tournament on the eve of the most important series since summer of 2005? Why rely so much on a spinner who has hardly chucked a ball in anger since then, and why rely on inadequate pre-series warm-up games ?
Did we just think we could turn up and it would all be OK.
Those that prepared this dogs breakfast of a tour want removing from post. If they were in industry they would have been sacked this morning.
England is meant to compete not capitulate.
For Heavens sake lets stop whingeing and/or crowing!
Let England really go out and do their best for the last 2 tests and give us some entertainment.
I dont want to watch a load of egos strutting their stuff. All I ask is some good cricket and a bit of fun and excitement.. something to brighten the long dark winter nights here in the UK.
Most of the comments from us Poms on here do us no favours at all... and some of the Ozzie comments smack of patronising to say the least.
That said I have enjoyed it so far and there have been some great performances on both sides.
Good luck to all and a very merry christmas
Complain about this postI hear some saying "if only we had Monty in the first match" (or something like that)... Well the thing is, Warne took 40 wickets in the last Ashes series in England and we didn't win, so I doubt you blokes would have won this series either, afterall Monty is no Warne.
Complain about this post
Complain about this postOh dear we lost the ashes 5-0 I wonder what the final score will be after the one day games, someone send them home.
THE GOOD SPIRITED RIVALRY CAN ONLY CONTINUE TO KEEP CRICKET ALIVE! TO WITNESS MULTICULTURAL AUSTRALIANS ENJOYING THE EVENT RENEWS MY FAITH IN MANKIND.IT WAS ONLY 12 MONTHS AGO WE WERE CLASHING IN THE STREETS OF SYDNEY.IF ANYTHING, THE REUNIFICATION IS HEAVEN SENT,ALBEIT AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR MOTHER COUNTRY.
MAY THE SPORTMANSHIP ALWAYS BE APARENT.E.G.ANDREW FLINTOFF'S STATEMENT,
Complain about this post"NOW WE PLAY FOR PRIDE"