England's dwindling team spirit exposed
To lose by an innings within three days was a really feeble effort, but such is the mental state of the players, and the lack of cohesion within the team, that it is not a surprise.
An example of the chaotic thinking was Kevin Pietersen's move to number four this afternoon.
It was not before time - he should have been batting there throughout the series - but this happened half way through this match, and only after it had been written that he had declined the request to bat there in the first innings.
He looked thoroughly aloof when he walked out to bat, and a loose drive resulted in his being bowled for only a single.
This, combined with the discovery that up to five players opted to do their own thing on Christmas Day rather than enjoy the time honoured tradition of spending Christmas lunch together, paints a picture of a group devoid of real team spirit in the true sense.
All criticism of England has to be tempered with a respectful nod to the Australians for the focused, determined and disciplined cricket they have played ever since losing the Ashes last year.
This has to be the legacy of England’s disastrous tour - either they take heed of the way the Australians coped with their defeat, or they will learn nothing from this.
All we ask of Andrew Flintoff's men in Sydney is that they play with every ounce of pride, purpose, commitment and consistency that has been lacking thus far.
There is no shame when, having given everything, you lose to a better opponent. But the players need to show the doubters that they have spirit.
The fact is, though, that 5-0 beckons for only the second time in Ashes history. For Australia, this will bring redemption. For England: humiliation and recrimination.
Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
Or does she only do that for her English cricket team?
Complain about this postEvery morning I wake up hoping that England have made a game of it!
I have now given up!
We can no longer bask in the glory of 2005, as we have been thoroughly embarrassed.
Complain about this postJonathan is absolutely correct that the England team has lost all vestiges of team spirit, but we should not underestimate the contribution of the Australians to this unhappy state of affairs.
England have not been allowed to compete, and have hardly won a session of play in the whole series.
England's team spirit was there at the start of the series, but the ruthless efficiency of the Australian side has utterly destroyed it.
Complain about this post"All we ask of Andrew Flintoff's men in Sydney is that they play with every ounce of pride, purpose, commitment and consistency that has been lacking thus far."
Whilst I thoroughly agree Aggers, the boys have been promising this since Adelaid and there's been little or no sign of it. Watching them on the field today they really looked like they'd given up.
After Losing the series in 3 matches I thought it couldn't get worse, but to lose by an innings in 3 days...
Complain about this postTwo of my favourite sporting moments of 2006: Zidane's head butt and Australia's relentless domination of the English cricket team. Poor team selection and inadequate team spirit resulted in English team's demise Down Under. I hope Andrew Flintoff does not stay at the skipper anymore. It is time for some changes in the management system of English cricket. English team are mentally fatigued, physically tortured, and psychologically humiliated at this point in time. Let's hope for good times ahead. Well done, Warne!
Complain about this postPathetic!
This reminds me of the Botham cptaincy era. Devoid of leadership. Devoid of discipline. When will the selectors leaen that your best player does not make your best captain!
Complain about this postWhat irritates me is that there will be recriminations if England lose 5-0, even knowing that the team are injury-depleted and Australia are the best side in the world. OK, give the captaincy to someone else; but let's wait to see how England perform against a lesser side before deciding to make wholesale changes.
Complain about this postAbsolutely right, Aggers... However, apart from the Urn being returned to Australia after 2005, the Aussies want to take the English 'PRIDE' which was thrust down the Aussie cricket team's throats in 2005 wiith week long drinking benders, lunch with the Prime Minister, open top bus victory parades (already organised even before the last game of the series was completed- VERY SPORTING OF THEM!), the whole country joining in to sing Jerusalem, commemorative stamps, DVDs, OBE's and several premature autobiographies, all in tribute to a team which held the Ashes for the shortest reign yet. After a 4-0 whipping, it all seems ridiculous now, doesn't it?
By the way, does this mean that the English (and Pietersen and Strauss) cricket team will have to give their OBE's back?
I certainly hope so.
Complain about this postIt's a great football season this year
Complain about this postWhy don't u English admit that you guys were simply outplayed cos you're not up to standard to the demands of world test cricket?
Complain about this postYou are completely right, what a shambles, l have followed England over here in Dubai for years and l cannot believe how sudden we crumble under pressure. They need there heads looking at. Yes, we can bat, and yes the aussies are great, but please, they need to die at the crease, show some real bottle. I watched a team that are embarassed and cant wait to go home. Am interested to see if any of them pick up injuries so they dont have to stay for the one dayers! Come on lads die for the shirt.....
Complain about this postI agree totally with MZ, the England team should be ashamed of their efforts, no will to fight etc.
Complain about this postThey should all hand back their stupid honours from last years streaky Ashes win.
It just shows what an outdated system both cricket and the honours are in England!
Chris Read, left stranded with the tail, was the not out batsman at the end of the England innings with the second highest score of the English batsmen behind the opener Strauss.
Time for him to move up the order?
Complain about this postOr time to relieve Flintoff of the captaincy which is ruining his game and at which he is only third rate anyway.
The horror show of this Ashes for England is evident across all sports where we claim greatness - cicket, rugby and football. The Southern Hemisphere Nations have again showed how their determination, organisation and commitment have rapidly brought England rugby and cricket teams down to earth soon after we have donned the mantle of being the best in the world, whlst the football team regularly flops when presented with real challenges. Despite the talk of 'professionalism' in all three sports, the players, coaches, management and whole hierarchy of these three sports need to quickly learn from this what the true meaning of professionalism is, and that is far more than just being paid to play, and taking the money irrespective of the performance. Well played Australia.
Complain about this postThe inflexibility of the selection is stunning. England need to understand 5 bowlers is an outmoded concept. Flintoff is too high at 6 Reid should be at 8.The batting is fragile beyond belief and can't maintain the luxury of a 5 man bowling attack. Collingwood and Peterson can share 5th bowling duties as both compare favourably to Symmonds as bowlers.
Complain about this postIts was an inflexible irrational desire to play 5 bowlers that resulted in picking a spinner (Giles) way past his best and out the game for a year instead of Panesar because of worries about the tail as well as dropping the best wicketkeeper to bolster the tail. Why 5 bowlers why? why? why?
"Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
I sincerely hope you're not suggesting she should??? Anyway would they want them?
Complain about this postWell, we have now run the whole gambit of whinges and excuses during this series. Lack of preparation, wrong Captain, poor management, wrong team selections, injuries to players, bad calls by umpires, the sneaky Aussies pinching our bowling plans and the rest.
We complain that Panasar and Mahmood should have been picked from the start, (Wait till we bowl with Panasar and Mahmood, things will change was the much quoted ramblings of the 'experts') we picked them in Tests 3 & 4 and still got thrashed. We brought in Read for Test 4 and he was probably one of the few players who gave his all, but we got absolutely hammered.
Yes, we can look at all the above, but it should not cloud the fact that we were thrashed by a better prepared team, a committed team, a team that played as a team, a team who was captained by a better captain, a team with better bowlers, batsmen and fielders, a team that was hungry to win. So the bottom line is England did not lose the Ashes, they were won by Australia, a far better team.
Complain about this postAs a Coventry City football fan I am used to humiliating defeats an a regular basis!
However, this latest "team" performance was the worst I have witnessed. Maybe the Coventry City football team could have done better?
Australia will now surely win 5-0. England can only blame themselves for poor team selection, negative captiancy and wayward bowling all playing a large part.
English cricket is now in ruins thanks to Fletcher and co. The sooner Vaughn and Simon Jones are back, the better.
The only positive out of this series has been Monty Panesar's briliance (shame Flintoff and Fletcher didn't show faith in him earlier).
Complain about this postStrauss is still sulking over not getting the captaincy, Bell and Collingwood found out at the highest level, time for a real think re Flintoff, time to play him as a specialist bowler he is clearly not an all rounder get shot of Harmison.
Complain about this postWell Well Well ........ 5 nil its 100% on the cards .... Warney bamboozling england batsmen again in Sydney and Aussies taking the back the Ashes in Grand manner .... As geoff boycott will say " My mother could play better then the whole of england team " ..... come you Aussiez do it for Warney and McGrath ....... shame on you poms...
Complain about this postPersonally I would welcome a 5-0 defeat, the England team have been in a false position since the last ashes - their egos galvanised by a hysterical reaction to winning back the ashes, the 'parade' and the ridiculous handing out of gongs.
Time for some modesty, humility and a reality check.
Complain about this postIf adelaide was a dissapointment then Melbourne had to top it. Even more dissapointing then the lack of spirit was the utter lack of respect for the travelling fans who have ventured many miles to see their belobved team play. We sang and sang until we were politely asked to leave by the ever so patient ground staff & at no point did our beloved England side make an apperance. If this team really wants to thank us why doesn't it come and say so!
Complain about this postAs if it matters whether it is 3-0 or 5-0 , last year bar the rain England would have won 4-1. England are away, they came without some key players,arrived only 3 or so days before the first test so probably weren't that motivated...so when at full strength they beat Austrlaia so dont be too harsh on them. Everything comes around.
Complain about this postAbsolutely pathetic. Everything about this sorry country, which still claims to be a "World Power" is crumbling. Get shut of these aloof idiots & for God's sake, the coach has got to go. It is an embarrassment to be English.
Complain about this postMost hilarious moment of this test? Geoff Boycott repeatedly sniggering at Andrew Symonds yesterday, saying he would be lucky to last until lunch and was not a test batsman. I turn off the radio and get some kip. Turn back on again after tea. Symonds has 150 NO.
Arise, Sir Geoffrey!
Complain about this postI am concerned that the miserable performances in Australia will undermine the surge in enthusiasm for cricket that followed last year's triumphs. All my 'non-cricket' friends have been adopting a 'told you so' attitude and my enthusiasm for Kent's upcoming season has been met with incredulity. It's such a shame. This series has put back the popularity of cricket in this country years. The return of national ennui, in football, rugby and now cricket, is a really depressing way to start 2007. Hopefully the England team can crush Australia in the 5th test and go on to win the World Cup. I would not bet my mortgage on either.
Complain about this postOkay, but really, England "surely" favourites for 2009, you're kidding right? Can i please get some confirmation on this?
Complain about this postThanks.
Let's look at the mathematics:
Hayden + Symonds + extras > [the entire England team] x2
Only England batsman with any sort of decent average - Strauss.
Having spent numerous years following England from the early 80's, when they have almost always seemed to have a couple of good batsmen but erratic bowlers and a fragile middle order, I was happy to see the improvements under Hussain and Vaughan finally resulting in the 2005 performance - particularly in the bowling and fielding. Sadly, the bad ol' days are back, 2006 has decidedly undone the good work.
Can a professional cricketer - maybe Boycott himself - answer this question please: what is the effect of having a number of people in the team who have at one time been captain? is it disturbing? I am thinking of a possible team including Vaughan, Trescothick, Flintoff and Strauss, and wondering whether it is tenable.
JNW
Complain about this postAll of the country is not only celebrating 4-0 but the bowling plan fiasco is something out of Monty Python. It is one of the funniest things that I can remember happen in cricket. The jokes are coming faster than an outgoing eng batsman dissapearing from the ground.
What was the batting plan today , no suncream, don't take guard and don't be long because we want tomorrow off? Did they think of trying to hit the ball. Did you hear the batting plan was formulated in the Pentagon (ministry for Iraq planning).
I don't remember a genuine funnier incident (maybe a roni irani diving attempt to stop a 4).
Please can eng give some fight and lets see a memorable last test. Play an extra bat for a bowler.
Since the 'bowling plans' ended up at ABC radio and aggers works there , could he give more detail about what happened. Did aggers know about the plans?
Complain about this postNice to see Australians displaying as much sporting grace as we did last time round! It's hard to hold on to that moral high ground if you keep on running down here to put the boot in.
Complain about this postJust bring the team home now, they have become an embarrassment. This is torture for us Brits.
Complain about this postWhat a shambles! Is there no one in this England Team prepared for a fight? Where is this so called team spirit that helped us win the Ashes in 2005? Yes, Australia have been good, but if we are all honest, England have made them look a lot better! Australia have just been consistent and when it really mattered during periods of each Test Match, Australia have stepped up and said, yes we want this so much and you can see that from the results. Where do we go from here, I do not know, surely in the 5th and final Test, every player must die for the cause to avoid a whitewash and the total embarassment of loosing 5 tests, even if it is the best team in the world! Even though it pains me to say this, I think that Stuart Clark for Australia has been the most consistant bowler throughout the series, and when you think that includes, Mcgrath, Warne and Flintoff for England, they have found a real star and probably made McGrath's decision to retire so much easier! Let's hope that the players can salvage some pride in Sydney.
Complain about this postIf this test series teaches the England selectors and fans one thing, let it be that Freddie is not an inspirational or even capable captain.
As we watch the team stagger from assault to disasterous assault, the real inspiration needed within the team to get them lifted and fighting has been missing. Freddie has failed to perform with both bat and ball, whilst his captaincy is woefully lacking in intelligence and belief. As a result we have seen England carrying a captain unworthy of the role.
For England to reap the true inspiration provided by Freddie, he needs to be relieved of the burden of captaincy. It does not suit, and England will benefit all the more for it.
Unfortunately there is no immediate replacement for Vaughan who, should he prove capable, will be able to lead England into the next Ashes series but not beyond. Whilst Strauss is capable, he has not shown the leadership qualities required on this tour - that of supporting Freddie. Instead he appears to have let Freddie flounder, and it is not the behaviour you would expect of a candidate hopeful of the England captaincy.
Instead, let us hope that Alistair Cook is mentored by Vaughan over the next four years so that he can step into Vaughan's shoes as an intelligent and inspirational leader.
Complain about this postWell said Aggers. This tour is now verging on the farcical, so comprehensive is Australia's dominance. The team seem thoroughly crushed, which of course was Australia's intention from the outset. What has the discontent within the squad stemmed from? It doesn't bode well if there is genuine disharmony, as, potentially, we have an excellent team in the making. As ever though, the real difference between the teams is mental strength and the will to win. The Aussies have it in spades. Us Brits are just too bloody nice.
Complain about this postSpeaking as a dyed in the wool English supporter I can only express my awe and admiration of this current Australian side. There is so much respect over here, for Warne and McGrath in particular it is palpable.
Complain about this postI think this would be a perfect opportunity - when Australia wrap the series up - to find a new home - at the SCG - or somewhere in Australia for the famous old urn.
They are immeasurably the better team after all and surely they deserve to keep and display this great sporting trophy - we will get it back one day but it should be in Australia now.
Australians should be told that the vast majority of cricket lovers in UK would support that move - I have no doubt of it - it is just a few crusty old reactionaries at Lords that cannot bear to see it leave.
What a change from the summer of 2005. Sadly, England do not seem to be in the right frame of mind to cope. What you have said about lack of team spirit is also depressing. If this is really true, the time appears to have come to tell this bunch that when they play as the England Test team, they are playing for the pride of the country and not for themselves. In the immediate future, I feel that a re-think is needed as far as central contracts is concerned. Does this lead to complacency that you will be paid irrespective of what you produce? Does it also leave players short of actual match practice? In the long term, the game in England has to be thoroughly restructured with fewer teams and more stiff competition, like in Australia. In my childhood days, I remember the Lancashire league was given as much importance in Indian newspapers as was County cricket. Maybe the leagues(as with Australian grade cricket) should be made tougher and act as a feed stock for the counties and the Test team.
Complain about this postLessons learnt. Winning a couple of sessions per test match is not enough. England need to look at application and grapht. Just because last series was 4+ runs an over, we don't need to try and replicate every match. Cook shows right temperament, Strauss for captain so Flintoff can concentrate on batting (bowling fine, subject to injury).
Complain about this postbring them home now this is just to painfull to watch
Complain about this postI'm looking forward to the plethora of Books and DVDs from the England team, ''how we threw away the ashes....'' Freddy's Capitulation etc.. maybe they were a bit quick to release them after one win in years? Back to the Drawing Board... now there's a good title.
Complain about this postI have to say that England Cricket has hit a new low. I'm here sat in Melbourne with my ticket for the fourth day and im gutted. I was looking forward witnessing the future England team and saying farewell to two of Crickets Greats, McGrath and Warne.
The greats turned up.....England didnt......how can things change so quickly? England simply did'nt have a clue. We lacked technical ability, belief and passion......the only positive was the Barmy Army!!! Well done to all the fans.
Disappointing lads...very disappointing.
Steve Mellor, Melbourne.
Complain about this postIt is not surprising that England lost, and that too inside 3 days. The reasons can be seen in their defeat in the 2nd test, which should have been drawn on England's terms. That setback was so big mentally that they could not recover from that and the suffering continued acutely in the following tests. Only thing the England players can do now is that in the team meeting each of them should stand up and say with commetment what is he going to do in the last test, rather than team management giving instructioins what is expected of the players. Let the accountability come from the players themselves.
bajarkar
Complain about this postIt was pitiful to watch England throw away a strong position (5-85) on Wednesday and then totally capitulate today. My only hope is that this is a young(ish) side who can and should learn from what has been a hard and embarrassing lesson. The Aussies have proven that team spirit and a burning desire to win are just as important as skill. They have managed to outplay England and I hope that England leave Australia with the same hurt that Australia had when they left England in 2005.
BTW MZ - The Queen can not bestow any honours in Australia. Successie Labour (I think) governments (Federal) took that homour away from Her a few years back.
Complain about this postWhat on earth has happened to the so-called traditional English seamer? We were told that they wouldn't get any wickets on these Aussie tracks. Well out has trotted Stuart Clark with an okay record in county cricket for Middlesex and by bowling consistent lines and lengths he's looked miles better than anything we've had to offer. Instead of picking Mahmood/Anderson why we didn't go for a Lewis/Broad type bowler to support our quicker tearaways is beyond me. When the going's got tough our bowlers have failed to get back to the virtues of line and length, to apply some pressure, when the Aussies have always had Clark and McGrath to throw the ball to. This pitch was crying out for a 'Fraser' type of bowler that offered just enough when you put it in the right place. The irony is that Clark is topping the bowling averages and he's the type of bowler this country used to produce with some regularity, but which seems to be out of favour in the Fletcher regime.
Complain about this postOh dear! What another dreadful flogging! Cant imagine how your boys are going last another month or so losing 5-nil and then have to stay Aus to lose the one day series and then cop even more criticism in the world cup in a few months time. Mind you, its great to have the barmy army down under keeping the cash registers overflowing in pubs across the country. Great to have Aggers on the ABC radio too!
Complain about this post
Complain about this postJUST PATHETIC No other words. All we hear now is what a great side Australia are. Have I missed something here? Did we not know this? or did all the hype from the media make us forget this. JA opinion was that the Australian side was old finsished etc. However clearly he does not understand that playinf sport witrh desire a will to win etc etc will get ageing players through a series with the goal at the end the reaclaiming of the Ashes.
Please remember 2005 was a fluke lead by luck and poor Australian team selection. England deluded themselves and the result will be 0-5
A crucial difference between the sides is a lack of fierce competition for places within the England set-up.
Guys like Bell & Collingwood are now 'in the club' after a couple of decent knocks whilst Strauss, KP, Flintoff, Harmison already have life membership.
Contrast KP's casual attitute with Reads' battle for his test career.
Well done Australia but 'club England' now needs a real shake-up.
Complain about this postThe fact of this english side down under in 2006 is as follows :-
1) Flintoff the CAPTAIN of english side was HALF-FIT.
Complain about this post2) No back up bowlers for Hoggard
3) Why do you keep persisting with non performers (Cook/Strauss/Harmison/Jones/Giles (Last 2 should never play for england) )
4) Fielding was pathetic
5) ALL THE PLAYERS WERE OVER CONFIDENT.
In the light of England's abject performance it's important not to loose sight of how well the Australians have played and have approached regaining the Ashes. For the first time in decades of following cricket I can honestly say that the Englad tream should be ashamed of themselves - poor preparation, poor attitude, poor technique and dishonesty, shown by their inability to recognise their own shortcomings - disgraceful.
Complain about this postThe first thing Collingwood & co should remember is that
THEY NEVER GOING TO WRITE ANY NEWSPAPER COLUMNS BEFORE OR DURING a test/odi series is going on (They always preach that they are going to threash the opponents).
Complain about this postEngland owe us a decent performance in the world cup after the shambles in Australia. For Harmison to de-select himself is a disgrace, someone with influence should have a word with him.
Complain about this postHumiliating. No professional pride. The last two years has been a disaster. Golden rules for the International game.
1. Always pick players on form, not on long gone past performance.
2. Never play an injured player.
3. Pick a captain who understands the subleties of the job.
4. Team management must be judged on results and paid on them.
5.Get foreign players out of our game at all levels.
6. Never rely on the opposition getting older/poorer-they will not.
Could think more, but am so horrified by the teams lack of pride I cannot think straight!
Complain about this postTake care Cricket-you are in danger of sinking out of the limelight and back to the wilderness beyond the racing results, next to the classifieds!
At 09:44 AM on 28 Dec 2006, MZ wrote:
Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
No, in AUS there are no such regal awards and in any case we pay our cricketers handsomely to win so all they are doing is their job. In AUS the honour of playing for your country is considered to be more than adequate compensation and superfluous "BE" letters after one's name a relic of a bygone era and a long lost empire.
Complain about this postThe Aussies call the MCG "The G". This now stands for "The Grave" that England are now in!
Fair play to Australia but this Ashes series has been a disgrace. The English players should be ashamed.
Complain about this postI've been to Australia twice to watch England.Glad I didn't go this time!One thing I'm sure of- I doubt if the Aussies will replicate the TASTELESS TACKY TRIUMPHALISM that we got in 2005.I remain a loyal English cricket fan as I have been since I saw Compton hit the winning 4 at the Oval in 1953 (on black & white TV)!
Complain about this postThis could be the last triumphant burst of Australian cricket for sometime.England have a young squad who will improve in time.They now all now know what it is to be humiliated & MUST learn from the experience.I think they will.Changes have to be made in the management...Duncan Fletcher will fall on his sword of course & Flintoff has to relinquish the captaincy.I remember Ian Botham had to do the same in his test career & it didn't do him any harm!
Despite this disaster l don't think there need be wholesale changes to the England squad. Just find an alternative to both Read and Jones as keeper, pick a couple of batters who know how to post big scores and get the radars sorted out of the current set of bowlers who have the key attributes of height and pace. Every Aussie in the team has done their bit....every top six batter has scored a ton (bar Martyn) and every bowler has had at least 3 wickets per innings. Team effort like England had in 2005.
Complain about this postYes, that only applies to England players, quite rightly.
Complain about this posti think Aggers hit the nail right on the head as to why you Brits have faired so poorly in this series. One would have thought all the players would have sat down as a team to have chritmas lunch but seeing 5 went and " did their own thing" well i think that about says it all re team spirit.One can only hope when the Aussies go and play over there next time youse will have a team worth putting up against them .
Complain about this postI honestly think that a village cricket team could play better than this england team. I am appalled that this group of players can even be deemed as 'professional' cricketers. The Australian bowlers have bowled very well but haven't exactly been made to work hard for their wickets. I am just sickened by these bunch of losers who just seemed to have eased off since winning the 2005 Ashes.
Complain about this postOur unbelievably pathetic performance sums up England fairly well I'd say, - down and out.
Increasingly, it seems, as a country we have had our day, from *every* perspective:- crap sportsmen (in just about every field), crap stadia (Wembley ha ha), crap sports facilities, crap government, crap schools/education system, crap weather, crap economy (stop trying to kid us Gordy), crap industry, crap towns and cities, underfunded armed forces (hence crap), crap transport system, crap jobs, crap future.
Is it any wonder Poms are emigrating down under...
Complain about this postJob well done Aussies.
I was at the G for the three days, the highlights was Warnie's 700th wicket, Symond's debut hundred, our clinical demolition of England and the atmosphere the Barmy Army created (the Barmy Army are damn good sledgers, we love them).
I am pretty disapointed with England's cricket though, over a quarter of a million people turned up over three days...we were let down, where has the tenacity of 2005 gone? Flintoff is a shadow of the man that destroyed us last year.
Even as an Aussie, I am hoping for a much better showing from England next week. Maybe that could be England's new year's resolution.....to compete with Australia.
Complain about this postTom wrote: Why don't u English admit that you guys were simply outplayed cos you're not up to standard to the demands of world test cricket?
Looking at the posts of the the English fans, myself included, we acknowledge that the England team was comprehensively beaten; one couldn't really argue the contrary given the scoreline.
And this England team is not up to the rigours of playing Australia in Australia? Again, a 0-4 performance doesn't really leave a lot of room for ambiguity does it?
So all that said Tom, what else where you looking for?
Complain about this postTo say I am devoid of enthusiasm for watching Flintoffs men in the next test at Sydney would be the understatment of the decade!!! I have supported England through bad times and good times alike for many many years and have seen them at low ebbs, but never have I been so utterly despondant and lacking the will to watch my England as i am today. It is without doubt that we have come up against a world beating Australia that would have beaten any team past and present that you would care to pitch them agaisnt. But what really riles me is the shear lack of committment determination and fight to the challenge from the England team/ squad in its entirety. Its like they just gave up! Without exception the whole team looked like a spent force from the very first ball. We never looked like winning let alone competing. Just a spark of fight would have been something but we never got it. My sofa has been my bed for the last 4 tests whilst I watched in amazement at how lack luster the England performances have been! I can assure you it won't be for the Sydney test!
Everyone involved in the England set up should take collective responsibilty for what can only be described as a disgraceful performance and serious questions should be asked of the team management, the preparation, the selection process and whether we had the right man for the job as captain.
Heres to a good nights sleep come New years day!!!
Complain about this postThe dejected capitulation by the England team has not been helped by the shenanigans about who will be the captain in the future and for the World Cup. I think Vaughan raising the issue during the series was unwise, and probably unsporting. Vaughan should have absented himself from the touring team.
I think Flintoff had little chance of getting the team cohesion and drive required while there was another ‘court in exile'. Up until this test Flintoff’s captaincy has been satisfactory to pretty good, if a little too defensive in his tactics. It is sad that the Vaughan plea to regain the captaincy occurs at just the stage where ‘the straw broke the camel’s back’. I don’t think Vaughan should return as captain, because he has not displayed loyalty and decency to his successor and so to the overall benefit of the team. Likely he will not have regained form to be worth a place in the near future.
Vaughan should not have been allowed to be part of the set-up of this tour – another complacent tactically error by the coach and management. A further example of the thoughtless management planning and preparation for this Ashes series, which is a result of arrogance and overconfidence.
Complain about this postNever thought I could get more depressed. You're spot on Aggers with saying it's a mental attitude problem, and others with their feeling that the demise started the day after the last Test in 2005.
Interesting about the Christmas lunch. Are the rumours right and this betrays a Strauss/Flintoff divide? It may not be true, but it's ominous if so. It means we'll have to rely on some leadership from those in ultimate charge back here. Like I said, I never thought I could get more depressed.
Complain about this postEngland's poor showing in this series has to be seen within the context of their patchy form since regaining the Ashes. They have been inconsistent and have not learned that to remain at the top is much harder that getting there. There was a touch of arrogance in the selection (i.e. giles and jones) and in the itineray. the fact that England allowed their bowling coach to return to Austrailia smacked of incompetence. If the England mangement and players really want to be the best they have to go the extra mile by learning from the Aussies.
Complain about this postEngland should never have sent a "full-strength" squad, including most of the Ashes team, to India for the Champions' Trophy.
We were never going to win it (Champs' Trophy) and our Ashes-defending team should have been focussing purely on the job-in-hand by playing four-day cricket wherever they could have got it. I can see absolutely no point in trying to prepare for the Ashes by playing limited overs cricket.
What we need is a specialist one-day coach to focus on this side of the game and to give Fletcher (or his replacement) time to concentrate on test cricket (as well as some pride, spirit and guts).
Complain about this postA divided team? where is the famous mr FLETCHER. The selectors should also have a good look of them selfs. Don't just leave the players by them selfs to take the blame.
Complain about this postShame on you at lprds, I hope you lot choke on your Xmas turkey
I doubt that anyone could make an original comment. I have two unoriginal comments: first, consider bringing this side home - it's like me being asked to play Tiger Woods; there is no match as such! Second, please ask Mr. Flintoff to stop making remarks which are, in my opinion, idiotic. Instead of talking what sounds like rubbish, just ask him to put all his available effort into playing cricket. Thank you.
Complain about this postthe fact that 5 players did not attend Christmas lunch does not necessarily reflect a poor team spirit as it should be remembered that not all members of the English side are of the same faith or religion and that they are entitled to opt out.
Complain about this postIt took six years hard work for Fletcher, Hussain and Vaughan to drag England from bottom of the test rankings to second.
But the moment the Ashes were won, many players and officials thought the hard work was over - it was time to go on benders, collect plaudits, and rest on laurels. Thanks to that, England are in danger of dropping back to where they started.
I doubt that Bangladesh, the current worst test team, would have done any worse than England in this series.
Complain about this postSome of the comments made are an unnecessary attack upon what should be a proud England side.
Things have not gone well, and a few changes are perhaps needed. Nevertheless, England's lads have tried, and they should be congratulated for that.
Don't blame the boys, there are selectors who should hang their heads, and perhaps a coach as well, but at the end of the day, with a bit more strength down the order, England still has a good bowling attack and remains the second best team in the world.
You could not think of a worse situation to find a visiting team in.... coming into the fourth test in Melbourne, Warne retiring, and McGrath too. A sports mad town that can muster close to 250,000 spectators in three days.
In short, now is not the time for recriminations, get behind the team, and lets hope to see a closer contest in Sydney.
Complain about this postThrashed again. Barely even a contest.
Lack of consistency seems to be England's problem. Most of the bowlers have bowled well in patches but not consistently (with the possible exception of Monty and Hoggy). Batsmen have got starts then got out. The biggest problem seems to be leadership both on field and off it.
Complain about this postSomeone has really taken their eye off the proverbial ball and bought into "the hype".
I think its time for Fletcher to go. He has done a fantastic job with the test side over a number of years but recently the wheels have come off a bit. He has to take responsibility for alot of this, plus our one day side is awful and if anything has deteriorated to its lowest ever form under him.
Factors such as poor team selections, poor captaincy selection, poor tactical decisions, Troy Cooley, poor team spirit, blatant favouritism all have to be linked with Fletcher.
After what will almost certainly be a poor world cup performance, we have no evidence to suggest otherwise, he should go before a major witch hunt starts against someone who has ultimately done the English game a lot of good
Complain about this postAs an Australian living in London, I knew this was going to happen ever since i saw the way you celebrated the 2005 series.
Complain about this postSince then you have been living off that series and your mind has not been on the job at hand.
Australia has been preparing for this series for 17 months, where as England gave themselves 2 four day warm up matches.
I think everyone has to take there hat off to the Austrailan team and admit they by far the best team in the world and possibly in history, as i took my hat off the the English team when they won in 2005.
Also i dont think you should make any changes, cause once you start chopping and changing the team you will never get results
Being an Englishman, and as hard as this is to say, I think the Aussies team should be congratulated by the Queen for their performance. As MZ says, I think it's only just for them to be recognised for a (likely) 5 - 0 whitewash, something that hasn't happened since 1920
Complain about this postAs a Australian I was delighted with today's win, but sitting with my English friends at the MCG, I felt nothing but sympathy for the many thousands of English supporters who have paid hard earned pounds to watch their team put in a dismal and disheartening display. It was quite depressing to view and the English cricket team are, in my opinion, a disgrace, having let so many of their supporters down. I agree that there is nothing wrong with losing to a better opponent, but to capitulate today in the manner they did was not indicative of a team of players who are supposedly the best in their country. Come on England, earn some pride and fight back in Sydney!
Complain about this postWhat can anyone say other than well played Australia. This Aussie team are head and shoulders above every other test side in the world and to fall upon their collective swords should be no great surprise to any cricket enthusiast. The problem is the unfortunate over expectation of English cricket supporters whom, through mainly the fault of the press, were foolish enough to believe that this current side were in the same class as the Aussies. Still, it's just boys playing games and irrespective of the intense disappointment felt by England's masses, hat's off to the Aussies. Well played indeed.
Complain about this postwe must go back to the drawing board.
we need players who are able to play at the highest level,not beat west indies,sri lanka,new zealand but the best in australia.
we have cook ans strauss in patches,pietersen who we can niot expectr to carry the batting as he has done,flintoff,hoggard and panesar who we must now build our team around.
we need to be able to bast right down as far as possible because at present we cant get 20 wickets in a test match.
agree with flintoff at 7 read/jon batty at 8.
again why is batty always ignored ???
somebody please answer me this??
why pick the bells/collingwoods/harmisons/ if they cant do it now then in 2009 v the aussies we will be talking a similar story even without warne and mcgrath
strauss
vaughan
cook
pietersen
joyce
????? has to bat and bowl a bit
flintoff
batty
broad
hoggard
panesar
to finish,freddie stop praising the audssies so much.england have been simply not good enough from the minute we flew from england.
the 1st ball of 1st test will be the biggest reminder ot thast.
it took until after the 2nd test to tryand sort harmison out.
lets be honest he hasnt been a test match bowler for 18months now.
questions to be answered on and off the pitch for me
Complain about this postWell, one thing's for sure - judging by some of the comments on here Australian supporters still haven't learnt how to take victory with good grace.
Sure, England's celebrations after the 2005 Ashes triumph were a bit over the top, but that was because of our joy over beating a really good team for the first time in 18 years.
We did not feel the need to make disparaging comments about the Aussies.
Complain about this post
Complain about this postDisgraceful effort and totally embarrassing.
I feel sorry for Flintoff. Test after test he has to stand at the presentation and begrudgingly give praise to the Australians, while simultaneously try and put some sort of positive spin on his own team's performance with the obligatory "we'll regroup, fight back and win the next one".
I was honestly hoping they wouldn't make him do it this time. What could he say? his team was thoroughly outplayed and embarassed yet again, and all their rhetoric of showing character and true ability is sounding rather sad and hollow.
Lucky Michael Vaughan, getting to escape Australia's unyielding revenge after glowing in last year's vainglorious celebrations. Any chance of him coming back for the final drubbing?
Complain about this postEngland are clearly in a state of some disarray and seem to have collectively thrown in the towel.
Complain about this postThey have some justification in this test match - what did they have to do to get a lbw decision!!
There was some shocking decisions, or rather lack of them, by the umpires.
It seemed to drain England and Flintoff in particular of any hope and that approach has filtered through the rest of the team
It is evident more than ever that Australia were far more hungry and passionate to win than England : as individuals, as a team and as a nation. The English Lion needs to search deep within itself and come out fighting. Actions speak louder than words.
Complain about this postI rarely agree with everything that Aggers says, but his comments regarding the lack of team spirit, families on tour and the lack of a real sense of purpose are right on the money. I wonder whether the media could ask Freddie Flintoff whether Andy robinson is helping the England team on tour? That is the only explanation I can come up with for this ridiculous charade.
To the next test, then: are we going to give poor Liam Plunket a competitive bowl before the World Cup or is he going to be thrust unceremoniously into the Commonwealth Bank Series without having bowled a competitive ball since, I think, last July? what I'm getting at, albeit rather incoherently due to the remnants of the most wonderful time of the year (Who was it who sang that?) and all that, is this: there is a lot more to the fifth test than pontificating about pride in that tub-thumping pure patriotism manner. Of course, that's all very important, but England should not lose sight of the next challenge that is the world cup. We have got to use this last test to give Liam Plunket a game, just to get some bowling under his belt. We can do that, and still play with pride.
Complain about this postI was at the MCG today (and wasn't she truly glorious with a crowd of 80,000!) and I have tickets for tomorrow that are sadly worth nothing more than a lousy refund. As a local I am so proud of the Australian team, but also disappointed that the MCG test, the biggest event of the cricket year no less (according to Matthew Hayden himself) is over in less than 3 days. England were a rabble all through this match, they lacked on field leadership and team spirit. They were nothing like the winning 2005 team. Australia were the complete opposite. It is pretty clear that the Australians are a more talented group this time and in these conditions but a strong team spirit would at least have made England competitive. It makes a big difference, and hopefully England will get it back soon for the sake of cricket.
Complain about this postI'm inclined to agree with the poster who said that the real key to this debacle was the second test. I still believe we would have won that game if Panesar had been selected ahead of Giles. The whole series might have taken a very different direction if we had. Clearly it was all over mentally for the England players from that point onwards.
As for the Australians, it always amuses me to see them hark back to our victory last time with such consternation. They seem somehow outraged that we dared to enjoy our rare victory. Next time round there will be no Warne and no McGrath. I also suspect that Flintoff and the boys will be wanting to make amends for this series. Don't despair, we can come back from this.
Complain about this postEng Team Line up Ashes 2009
1. Cook
2. Trescothick
3. Bell
4. Vaughan
5.Pietersen
6. Flintoff
7Davies (w/k)
8Panesar
9Broad
10Hoggard
11Jones
Still looks like Flintoff is batting too high. Can anyone think of a better bet at No 6 ?
Complain about this postEngland went to Australia with key players missing and other key members coming back from long lay offs due to injury... Is it just me but dont you think the England team have been subjected to grossly unfair criticism...
Day after day we have heard from Aggers and co.. not good enough, dwindling team spirit etc etc... Is anyone suprised? They have been beaten by a better team, there own management and to a lesser degree the good old press...
How do we expect a team to perform against the best in the world when key players are missing or out of form.. It could easily be argued that Flintoff should never have played until he found form in practice games... not only that but hes given the ultimate responsibility in captaincy.. why??
The England management who offered him the position must be mad..... it was obvious to everyone that Strauss should have kept the captaincy... Flintoff should step down as captain, as losing 4 in a row would make most captains walk and i guess its only because of his heroics of 2005 that keeps anyone from sacking him...
The problem is now that we are damaging Flintoff as a player and possible future captain because of subjecting him to all this.. not only that the rest of the team are starting to believe Australia are invincible again which is wiping away all the hard work of 2005...
For goodness sake give the players a chance to play from the heart forget the 5-0 scenario, who cares? blood some youngsters and plan for 2009 (you can imagine thats what Australia would do). This series is gone was gone arguably before the first ball was bowled...
Somebody take control and please end the series with England planning for the future and not hanging on to this idea that all that matters is that we are not beaten 5-0... someone must have some vision and forward thinking to realise it doesnt matter...
Complain about this postIs shane warne a republican?
Can he have an OBE anyway? Rolf Harris has one?
Seriously though, what a legend.
I dunno, series whitewash. losing by an innings, anyone getting nostalgic for the nineties?
Complain about this postI listened most of the night to TMS, and the comments of Jonathan and Geoff Boycott. The problems of the English team were well put - Very poor preparation - the team should have had more preparation matches before the First Test. Angus was right that the international diary prevents the right preparation. Ian Chappel was right that we should be looking to win at all types of international cricket - our attitude to one day matches is part of the problem.
Complain about this postCaptaincy from the boundary does not work - we need a real captain out there on the pitch who is confident and wants to win from any situation!
In many walks of life (business as much as Sport) there is this "One Swallow makes a Summer" attitude. Shallow thinking, failure to understand in depth and to work hard to sustain performance. Jonathan is looking for consistency - England have the wrong consistency. Tactics have become more important than strategy, strategy more improtant than objective. Geoff is right - keep it simple - bowl line and length, set the right fields - when you win the toss, make the right decision - our batting is fragile, our bowling is less so in the right conditions - play to the least of our weaknesses.
At least I will be able to get some sleep tonight - thanks England!
As depressing as this all is we have learned a lot from this series: Giles should retire gracefully, ditto Fletcher. Jones does not have the quality at this level with bat or gloves. Trescothick cannot be considered for selection again but Cook has something about him. Finally, Flintoff is mortal, and not a very good captain, but no blame on him - have England ever had an all rounder who was?
Complain about this postFirstly, big congratulations to Australia. They have showed the rest of the cricketin, sporting world, that pure grit, determination and will to win is what you need in every single game. Yes they have the skill and the players on paper, but to produce it in the match, time after time is a lesson to all. Warne and McGrath will obviously go down as some of the all time greats in the game, and we are all lucky to have seen them from ball one of their careers.
Now England,
I wish people would stop talking about how many injuries they have, and the main people are out. That means nothing when they get on the field. Playing for your country, in their biggest games of their lives, (lets face it, the ashes is far greater then the world cup), should be enough for any of them to stand up and be counted. Ok, team selection wasnt great from the off, but maybe in this final test its the best they could do...on paper, but nobody showed it on the field. If this was football, and chelsea or Man U had lost 4 on the trot, and 4 bad results, heads would roll. an excuse about injuries wouldnt do.
If last year they were on open top bus's, they should go on the tube this year.
Complain about this postdefinitely the most pathetic performance so far. all very well for flintoff to say we're playing for pride in these games but clearly they are not bothered at all. where is the pride and belief? its humiliating in the extreme. i'd strip them all of their undeserved mbe's and parade them around trafalgar square to have rotten fruit thrown at them by all the people who wasted money to go and watch them play like utter rubbish. if this series was a boxing match the ref would have stopped the fight. the sydney match will be painful to watch as england will get done 5-0 without doubt. whole tour has been a shambles and someone has to pay big time. i want heads to roll. bring in BOYCOTT the voice of yorkshire reason. he speaks so much sense and would kick them all up the backside like they deserve.
Complain about this post"I doubt that Bangladesh, the current worst Test team, would have done any worse than England in this series"
marc brown - I know England have had a bad time of it in Australia but to suggest they are playing the same level of cricket as Bangladesh is taking it a bit too far.
Everyone is entitled to be upset about England's performance but we really aren't THAT bad overall. I reckon we will win our next four of five Test series
Complain about this postI was quite surprised to hear Flintoff say that the team is putting in their best. If this is the best that the English players can do, then they will get massacred again in Sydney.
Complain about this postI’ve said it before! Today, my English countrymen left me the butt of my Australian friends’ mirth. We watched a side, not a team, with a couple of reasonable bowlers and a couple of reasonable batsmen go through the motions of playing cricket. They lacked an on field tactical leader to get the best from field settings and bowlers. They lacked focussed batting whilst thoughtless swipes were seen as sufficient. The scene was set when the silly business of a copy of the so-called English Plan to deal with the Australians was given to the media. Discourteous perhaps but anyone reading this complicated load of rubbish would know all was gone for England. Who was the idiot who scribbled these useless lists which, no doubt, team members were supposed to be able to recall on the turf? The episode neatly underlined all that is wrong with this group trying to represent their country. They need to go away and learn how to play the game and become men, before coming back to try again.
Complain about this postEngland won the Ashes on the back of exceptional individual performances and good captaincy by Vaughan. The Aussies always had the better team but were matched by spirit and determination.
Complain about this postOur shallow squad has been exposed by injuries and poor selection. When will English sports teams be picked on FORM and not reputation? How could Giles, Harmison, Mahmood & Anderson be selected before someone like Lewis who actually bowls on the square and takes wickets.
Flintoff is a wonderful character but don't overload him with the captaincy & unrealistic expectations.
There's truth in all the above comments(selection, choice of captain, lack of passion etc.). But the main factor is that we were so over-confident after a LUCKY win in 2005 (weather and CRUCIAL umpiring decisions going in our favour - it should have been all over in 2005 after the second test - we were very fortunate). The Aussies have ALWAYS been the better team, and deservedly shown that this time around. The media didn't help either, by bolstering the egos of some very average players.
Complain about this postNothing can be taken away from Australia's performances. They have a number of players with exceptional ability but above all they are a team.
Complain about this postEngland have players who each, on the day, can perform to a similar level but are nowhere near a team.
Australia are regularly going to post big scores and England must be able to match them. To do this we must occupy the crease. Far too frequently we see our guys giving away cheap wickets, playing with a one day mentality. One of the main culprits is Flintoff. Look at his recent test scores. How many times when we needed to bat all day, or sometimes 2 days have we seen a ludricrous choice of shot. This is not leading by example.
Back to Australia, they succeed because of their grit, determination, commitment and national pride. Something our guys have none of.
For me, the series was already lost when England threw away the second Test. The way Flintoff and Pietersen threw away their wickets was abysmal and totally unprofessional. Don't these players know how to set about staying at the crease anymore in order to avoid defeat or at least make it hard for their opponents to bowl them out? Flintoff is nowhere near being the right man to captain the side. Or maybe he is if that's how England want to go about playing Test cricket. He's a million miles away from Vaughan and can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Illingworth and Brearley.
Complain about this postTalk about whingeing Poms - give your team a break! You have some outstanding players and a gifted young nucleus of players for the future. They have been outplayed by one of the best ever Australian teams containing a number of players who would make the short list for the best ever in their respective positions (Warne, Gilchrist, McGrath, Ponting(?)), They have been playing with a will and intensity to win that has been so consistent throughout the series I can say I 've never seen the like of it before in 40 years of cricket watching. Everything England does eventually seems like a mistake in the face of such opposition but it isn't - Australia have just been too good - just like England was last time. Get behind your team, until the last day and a half of the 4th Test they have been giving as much as they could.
Complain about this postThe 2 really galling things are
1. Flintoff not admitting it has been a farce
2. Players like strauss claiming they are as good as the aussies they have just lost the key moments ...rubbish they are better, better prepared and this test has really exposed this
The first thing before we move forward is to admit to these then we can move on
Complain about this postWe all know the problems... what we now need are the solutions!
I would suggest the first one to solve is how do we get these 11 men to start playing like a team?
Complain about this postAll we can ask now is that we hurt at least half as much as Australia did in 2005, although looking at the players attitude, I doubt it. It's been a complete farce and the over-riding feeling as that we've been making it up as we go along really. Pietersen suddenly at 4 is a perfect illustration of that, as Aggers says.
As is so often says, the sporting outlook of the two nations are polar opposites. Australia expects to win; England hope to win, and spend at least a few years afterwards celebrating the fact. It's about time we sorted ourselves out. Australia is laughing its collective head off, and who can blame them?
Complain about this postFirst the FA appoint Maclaren because he is English and then Flintoff becomes captain because he is inspiration.... you can have all the passion and patriotism you want but if you cant do the job. This had better act as a wake up and changes are needed.
Complain about this postEngland went to Australia with key players missing and other key members coming back from long lay offs due to injury... Is it just me but dont you think the England team have been subjected to grossly unfair criticism...
Day after day we have heard from Aggers and co.. not good enough, dwindling team spirit etc etc... Is anyone suprised? They have been beaten by a better team, there own management and to a lesser degree the good old press...
How do we expect a team to perform against the best in the world when key players are missing or out of form.. It could easily be argued that Flintoff should never have played until he found form in practice games... not only that but hes given the ultimate responsibility in captaincy.. why??
The England management who offered him the position must be mad..... it was obvious to everyone that Strauss should have kept the captaincy... Flintoff should step down as captain, as losing 4 in a row would make most captains walk and i guess its only because of his heroics of 2005 that keeps anyone from sacking him...
The problem is now that we are damaging Flintoff as a player and possible future captain because of subjecting him to all this.. not only that the rest of the team are starting to believe Australia are invincible again which is wiping away all the hard work of 2005...
For goodness sake give the players a chance to play from the heart forget the 5-0 scenario, who cares? blood some youngsters and plan for 2009 (you can imagine thats what Australia would do). This series is gone was gone arguably before the first ball was bowled...
Somebody take control and please end the series with England planning for the future and not hanging on to this idea that all that matters is that we are not beaten 5-0... someone must have some vision and forward thinking to realise it doesnt matter...
Complain about this postE...gotistical
N...egative
G...utless
L...acking team spirit, stability etc etc
A...rrogant
N...ext to useless
D...isgraceful
Give Straussy the captaincy - Freddie doesn't need the pressure. As Ed Bell said, smacks of Beefy's tenure in charge. Let him do what he does best.
Complain about this postRoll on 2009 - without Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden et al we might actually have a chance. Then again, there'll still be Lee, Clark, Clarke, Hussey..oh, and probably Ponting and Gilchrist as well. Happy days! (Is Tuffers still available, by the way?!)
I hoped before the test series start that without Vaughan and Jones and with players not at there best at all, e.g. Flintoff, Giles and Trescothick that we we still might achieve something. To draw the series would have been great out there in the circumstances.
Complain about this postThe sad reality is, that really we should not be reliant on the small group of our best players to come good consistently. Just like our national football squad our cricket squad does not have the depth of top class players to perform continuously on the international stage. Our lads under a 80% Flintoff have missed match winning chances this time. They have had some abyssmal decisions against them and Aussies have pushed the term 'Sporting' to its limits, some of their appeals deserved stern warnings which they did not receive.
When we were kissing and cuddling the enemy when we were playing so brilliantly and god forbid going to beat them in the last Ashes series, perhaps we should have treated them with the same clinical disregard that they shown us out there in Aus this time.
Like our national football the picks in Cricket are getting harder to make. Its too easy to blame the Coach and Captain, therefore the ECB need to look at increasing the depth and quality of the squad. That is the only answer.
Teju,
I feel you are being rather harsh on Cook. He has scored 1000+ runs in his 1st season aged 21 incl 4 tons......
Underperforming??
Drop Him??
You are having a laugh.
Agree with Giles/ Jones/ Harmison comment though.
Complain about this postLest we forget...
If it hadn't been for a dubious umpiring call in the Edgbaston test to end the Australian second innings, the series would have been a tied one and Australia wouldn't have lost the Ashes last time around.
Until the EWCB prioritise the Ashes series above every other tournament, as the Australians have done, then it will be a long time before we get the urn back.
Well played Australia and well done Shane Warne. What a remarkable talent and I can't wait to see him turn out for Hampshire next summer.
However, from the Ashes the Pheonix will again arise...
Complain about this postI'd like to see how Australia would go if they were missing Hayden, Ponting and Stuart Clark, which is equal to what England are missing.
As an Australian going for England, I have been extremely dissapointed about the performances.
To all of the English fans, After Warne and McGrath, there's hardly any players in Australian first class cricket who come close to filling the void that these retirements bring to the Australian team.
Phil Jaques is about the only player who really deserves to be in the national side. There is very little other than that. Mark Cosgrove's good but he's not at international standard yet. Mitchell Johnson is not all that everyone says he is and Shaun Tait is in the same category (although Tait can bowl some incredible spells).
In the spin department, Cameron White is a good bowler but he's no Shane Warne. He's an excellent captain (he recently out captained Darren Lehmann of all people in a one day game) and should replace Ricky Ponting when the time comes but that won't be for a while.
Dan Cullen is slightly overrated, although he's a good bowler, but time will tell. Adam Voges has only played 20 first class games.
There are hardly any players in the early 20's who are coming into the Australian system unlike England who have a load of young players ready to play international cricket.
Stuart MacGill although an excellent bowler is 35 and not getting any younger.
On the plus side for Australia, Ricky Ponting, Michael Hussey and Michael Clarke will more than likely be playing by the time of the 2009 Ashes Series, however the rest of the side will look very different.
England on the other hand have players like Cook, Panesar, Mahmood, Bell and Pietersen who are all at the beggining of their test careers and looking extremely promising. It's more than likely that players like Strauss, Flintoff, Harmison, Vaughan and Simon Jones (barring injury) will still be around by 2009 so there is some hope for England, but they have to put in the work.
This recent defeat might be what England need to get back into form.
I hope they do well in Sydney.
Complain about this postoh Yeah, This english team will have the "upper hand" in 2009 - at least, as per Aggers DREAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this postRE - comment 23 by "George". You just keep thinking that way mate, try and get the england team and management to think that way, also the fans.
That way the Ashes will be safe, where they belong, with Australia.
Complain about this postCan't bat. Can't bowl. Can't catch. Can't field. Can't understand why PM is such a fool. (Your's and our's)
Complain about this postI don't think England are far behind Australia in talent, where they are a long way behind is in committment, desire and fighting spirit.
Complain about this postThey have let themselves down badly and all their supporters world wide.
They should consider giving their fees to charity, after expences.
And then get some in, training that is, ready for the next session!
Les
I think, amidst all the criticism of the England team, the exceptional performances of the Australians should not be overlooked. My own view is that England lacked the preparation that might have allowed them to compete on a more equal basis and possibly avoid a 5-0 humiliation. However, I still think England would have lost. Lets be honest when we won the Ashes in England we played above ourselves and got the lucky breaks. This time an underprepared side missing key players came up against a very determined excellent cricketing side who probably had more than their fair share of the luck! The expectation of success, back in the UK, reminds me of all the euphoria prior to England competing in the football world cup - world beaters according to the media but very ordinary in reality!
Complain about this postWhy can,t tours follow the pattern of years ago when teams were in Os for months not weeks They got acclimatised , played States and country sides between Tests and were able to pick the players on form. This is a job not a holiday.
Complain about this postThere have been so many blunders made in the run-up to this series, and during the series itself that one wonders whether the entire system of cricket administration in the UK needs to be thoroughly overhauled.
For me, the biggest disappointment in Australia has been the performance and captaincy of Flintoff.
In retrospect it was not a good idea to burden him with the captaincy, and there were many who thought so before the tour began.
Let's hope lessons have been learned, but something tells me that without a good clear out within the administration, it will be all talk and no action.
Complain about this postOnce again an English team has gone abroad with all the distractions of wives and families accompanying them virtually every step of the way. Having had to suffer the WAGs during the summer we now had the players heading home from the subcontinent for a few days instead of practcing in Australia, and then reports of various players being uncomfortable from being away from their loved ones. Take them off a central contract then and make them bloody work for any bonuses like 99% of the population have to...
Complain about this postIf this motley crew of England cricketersand coaches were employees in a business situation then final warnings and dismissals would be the order of the day.There is only one answer and that is a massive clear out and start again.I certainly hope it happens because I for one will show little interest if I have to continue reading about this bunch of loosers-John from Brisbane
Complain about this postIn response to Tom the genius, "Why don't u English admit that you guys were simply outplayed cos you're not up to standard to the demands of world test cricket?", if you've read any of the papers, respected journalists and media feedback, you'll find that's exactly what we have been saying. Your guys are far superior, there can be absolutely no doubt about that. What we English are so astounded by is how we can change from a series-winning team in 2005 to this utter rubbish in 15 months? And as Aggers makes clear, 1. you guys are leagues above in quality and desire, but also 2. there is no shame in losing when you've given your all, and that is the utter shame that should hang round the current England side. A disgrace. The most hyped series in world cricket and we have let all those involved down, with poor, gutless cricket.
MBEs, OBEs... no one in England under 50 years old cares about such meaningless trinkets, it's just you guys just can't seem to shake off being ignored when they're handed out. Have them; enjoy them... not sure why you make such a big deal of medals that represent a former union that many of you so clearly want to be disassociated from.
Complain about this postIf this motley crew of England cricketersand coaches were employees in a business situation then final warnings and dismissals would be the order of the day.There is only one answer and that is a massive clear out and start again.I certainly hope it happens because I for one will show little interest if I have to continue reading about this bunch of loosers-John from Brisbane
Complain about this postBowl out twice for a total of 320 runs, i think zimbawe can give the aussie a more competitive result than this.
I have just read the average by the aussie batmen, and you know what. The top eight batmen have a batting average well over 40, and their nineth batman "lee" has a average of 30. This is the reason why the poms is trailing 4v0 prior to the last ashes in sydney.....
Complain about this postMZ that will only happen to the English team becuase Australia opted out of the right to receive Commonwealth honours some years ago. Ask Johnnie Howard to dish out some Order's of Australia.
Complain about this postIs anyone else surprised that England have appeared to have given up? Im not!!
You try and be beaten the way they have and still want to come out fighting!!? Who would? Australia i hear you cry? Well maybe..
But no one else... The series is gone dead and buried.. why bother playing once the series is won? Why put players through dead rubbers and ask them to play for so called pride? Don't you think they are playing with pride before this?
Surely the most useful thing for dead rubbers if you still think we need them, is to blood some youngsters and give them experience... instead the short sightedness comes out and people say we dont want to lose 5-0!! Oh no!! can you imagine? Best play for pride then? What complete rubbish...
who cares? anyone? 3-0, 4-0, 5-0 losing is losing... by how much doesnt matter...
what does matter is rebuilding confidence and if you say right we will field a team with some young up and coming talent go out enjoy it and get some useful experience and dont worry abou the result.. then you are taking the pressure off and using these dead rubbers constructively.. surely others must think like this? Please someone in Englands management have some forward thinking???
Complain about this postI wonder if Australia can win the toss in Sydney, declare at stumps on day one with 400 on the board, then bowl England out twice in a day, wrap it all up in two days. Anything seems possible in this series.
At least then, the loyal English supporters could enjoy a couple of days at Bondi, before coming back to blighty.
Complain about this postWhat can you say?. It has been been horrific watching our 11 best cricketers(?) being trounced.Althought it was expected,it still hurts. No passion, lack of committment and worse of all no sign of fighting spirit.
Complain about this postPlease Mr Blair, send in the SAS and rescue our boys immeadiately
i now know why aussie has prepared such batting friendly wicket in adelade and perth. The reason is that the aussie don't want these matches be finished within 3 days [lemuch less revenue from tickets and tv telecast]. And the decision of pointing not enforced the follow on in brisban also support my view.......
Complain about this postRather than just complain as I have done after each & every abject performance, I thought I would be positive & suggest solutions which the England management should at least consider.
1) Change the Captain to Strauss
2) Play an extra batsman at no 3 or 6
3) Move KP to 4
4) 4 Bowlers : Flintoff, Hoggard. Panesar + 1 other
5) Set orthodox fields & bowl L&L
6) Do everything together as a team & send home the WAGS
7) Show some heart, pride & passion for the three lions, the barmy army, the australians who crave a contest & the people back home that deserve better.
Sydney Test...
Strauss
Cook
Joyce
KP
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
Read
Mahmood
Panesar
Hoggard
Show some fight....
Complain about this postNothing new here Aggers!
Pieterson has all ways been arrogant right from day one and showed that now that the series has gone, he's not interested.
The fact that our bowling plan became public knowledge shouldn't bother anyone as much as the fact we couldn't bowl to it!
The only point I disagree with you on is - if you're not getting on with some one, you shouldn't have to spend time with them because of some traddition as this isn't likely to improve team spirit more just make you miserable or fed up; do you own thing and be happy. I play for a team where team spirit could be better but, then, we win things!
Alan Humphries.
Complain about this posteasy to some this tour up in a few words poor planing poor batting poor bowling poor selection poor umpiring from the first test when pointing should have been given out for 30 odd and went on to make over 190 right up to this test match when hayden should have been given out what four times ? Australia have had the best of the decisions i personaly think this was down to there aggressive appealing perhaps i should put down poor third umpiring as well for not stopping it.This Australis side are one of the best teams to grace the game it would have been nice to play them on a even keel ask andrew strauss
Complain about this post
Complain about this postChanges need to be made and lessons need to be learnt otherwise our cricket team will collapse into oblivion. What saddens me is that; yes Australia has been the better side and you don’t have to be ashamed of losing to the better side. But for three of the tests we have looked like village cricketer’s compared to their mighty team. And the other test was simply humiliating; we have had little fight, making every other series’ down under look decidedly warmer. Why has it all gone so wrong, when did we lose the team spirit and more importantly what can be done about it? The answer, at least part of it lies with a good performance at Sydney and hopefully a surprisingly better World Cup then many may fear. Perhaps ending Warne and McGrath’s reign with a defeat will inject England with some confidence and belief in themselves, although the way their playing at the moment that look’s like a very distant prospect.
easy to some this tour up in a few words poor planing poor batting poor bowling poor selection poor umpiring from the first test when pointing should have been given out for 30 odd and went on to make over 190 right up to this test match when hayden should have been given out what four times ? Australia have had the best of the decisions i personaly think this was down to there aggressive appealing perhaps i should put down poor third umpiring as well for not stopping it.This Australis side are one of the best teams to grace the game it would have been nice to play them on a even keel ask andrew strauss
Complain about this posti think the aussie cricket board should have an serious investigation on the 2005 ashes aussie team about match fixing. How can they lost to an opponent like england team.... a mystery, like the brazil football team lost to france in 1998 wc.
Complain about this postOne question....why did Mr Blair give out all the gongs etc. after the one off series win ???All the celebrations now look a bit flat and silly...... Was it just for Blair's self promotion or did he know that there won't be a chance again ????
Complain about this postFrom when England lost the second test after a first innings of 550 - 6 declared there was no way back. At the time I thought 5 nil was on the cards and it looks more likely that it will be the case. The whole tour for England has been farcical, this series will hopefully be something to learn from instead of making excuses for why England were thrashed.
Australia throughout were more determined than England. One of the major faults of the England team was not taking advantage of the crucial sessions that would have put them in front. Other than that Australia have out performed England and are determined to not just beat England but humiliate them.
Complain about this postAs an Australian I would like to point out that you Brits just don't appear to go in hard enough. Do what we Aussies do...we hate to loose and that applies to any sport we participate in. We get upset if we don't do well...dam we even got upset with the Australian soccer team not progressing to final 8 in the World Cup. Now that would have being something considering soccer is not a major sport here.
Complain about this postBe more passionate...play as if your life depended on it. I feel sorry for all your fans that have come here..they are fantastic the way they support your team.
Let's be honest -- welcome though it was, England scraped the Ashes win in 2005 - by a whisker.
Complain about this postThis hammering is a great disappointment but not actually a surprise to me as the Aussies are without question far superior as a team. We delude ourselves if we think otherwise.
Clearly though a great cricketer, like Botham, Flintoff is not an England Captain. Strauss should have been Captain in Vaughans absence.
Mind you the biggest mistakes were made by the Selectors who again sent unfit and sub standard players to Australia.
A bowler needs to learn his trade by bowling in matches and getting wickets. Our Test bowlers are not allowed to play County matches so how can they prove they are the best available. It is all very well bowling in the nets but they ought to get more overs under their belt in the middle. They may be fit to run and lift weights but not to bowl. How often were Trueman Statham Bedser Larwood etc. unfit, not often because they bowled much more in matches.
As for the batsmen they lack the discipline of NOT getting out. You can practice all day in the nets but if you hit a bad shot it doen't matter you keep going. Just look at all those careless shots our batsmen get out to - they are 'net' shots.
Let us get a new coach and selectors who insist that the players learn and keep up their standards playing cricket in the middle.
Complain about this postI can imagine the likes of Thomas Morgan and David Graveney are underlining the excuses. Too much to expect honest assessments of where it has all wrong.
I'm not one for knee-jerk reactions but an overhaul of personnel at the top must take place. Graveney, Fletcher and Flintoff do not deserve to stay in their positions. This whole level of performance is not acceptable.
Also what did Thomas Morgan the chairman of the ECB do to deserve another contract, which he got during the Ashes?? Since he was the one who defended the set-up of the tour, perhaps he was behind arranging it? About as ridiculous as an Ashes Test in Cardiff. Then again, there is an Ashes Test in Cardiff on the 2009 Ashes Tour. Enough said!
This Australia team is good but are they really as good as the teams that played under Waugh, Taylor and Border?
I can't help feeling that there is unquiet in the England camp anyway and perhaps the releasing of the bowling notes relates to this.
Complain about this postI think the words "Weak" and "Leadership" go togeher in someway explaining this feeble and frankly pathetic performance. Freddie is a great player, but not a great captain. Even in India (Jan, Feb 2006) he never seemed in command and frankly India gifted him a win in the last match of that series. However I think that the coach (Duncan) and the ECB leadership should shoulder responsibility for not showing "LEADERSHIP" and clear direction. This shows up in areas such as choosing Chris Read in the summer and then sidelining him in the Ashes, despite good performances. The selection of Flintoff as captain instead of Strauss is also symtomatic. And what is a still unfit Vaughan doing waiting in the wings in Australia - Is that some sort of message "of confidence" to the current capain and his squad!?
Complain about this postI believe I could be the only one in the world who has understood englands tactics in the current ashes series. England have a younger, developing side whereas Australia's side is much older and careers are winding down. A lot of Australian players are over 30 and a few are reaching 35+ What a great way of decimating the Australian team. A 5-0 whitewash is a way to send off half the Australian team making England have the experience edge over Australia in the next series. Losing 5-0 is tactical genius!
Complain about this postTo all those who cried out for Giles & Jones to be dropped .. Now look what's happened!!
At least the first 3 matches reached the fourth day when the King of Spain and his little helper GoJo were in town.
Joking apart, we have a real problem at 6 & 7 in the batting order where a you need to have potential century makers. I'm afraid that neither Flintoff (who is at present is no more of an alrounder than Warne) nor Read fit the bill.
For all Fletcher's pronouncements about 'batting to 8', the reality is that we don't bat past 5 at the moment.
Complain about this postYou'd better hope you don't end up meeting Scotland at the world cup. That would be real humiliation for you wouldn't it.
Complain about this postIt hurts me to say this but "well done you Aussies", the reason England lost the ashes was because at critical moments during the series they froze whereby the Aussies in the same situations excelled.
It's all down to mental toughness and believing in your own ability and until we reduce the number of county games and introduce 4 regional super teams to play against each other our players will never have that mental toughness that is required to suceed at the very highest level!
Complain about this postWill the 5th test match be limited
to 3 days of play?
Since, to play the full 5 days for benefit of
the spectators, many of who have spent a
lot of money travelling down under, would
mean that Oz should now allow England
to play 4 innings instead of 2 (not that it will affect the outcome anyway).
Please consider this - please!!!
Complain about this postcricket buffs & rugby buffs. the alarm bells have been ringing for these two sports in particular for a good while now. as with our other "national game" of football. our professionals (do not) become bad players overnight, they are all technically proficient compared to "the punter" and genuine fan. they are the best we have, but is the real will to win there "at all costs" this i doubt . why do we seem to rest on our laurels, have inquiries, national debates into the reasons why etc. despite being prepared to employ the "best" coaches/gurus to provide the "off the field" expertise. alas when we are "out there" the mental/psychological difference is so plain to see its embarrassing
Complain about this postA huge disappointment, not so much for losing BUT for the manner in which we lost. The Aussies are a vastly superior team who operate as a team.
We on the other hand seemed over inflated from a VERY closely won Ashes victory in 2005.
It should not be forgotten that it was close and that it could quite easily have gone to the Aussies.
They seem much more committed and were determined to win their home series.
Our preparation does have question marks against and it should not be forgotten that we did not have the same personnel available for this tour.
At the same time the nature of these tours should be looked at. I realise that the days of taking the boat from Tilbury and taking six weeks to get to Sydney are long gone BUT to play almost nothing but Tests with no State/Country xi fixtures seems daft to the point of suicidal.
The fact is that however loyal I am about English Cricket the present side has been well thumped by a vastly superior outfit.
The supporters and young kids deserve better from the national side.
Complain about this postWhy are we surprised at this series result? Good though he is, Andrew Flintoff is not superhuman and cannot bowl, bat, remain fit, both physically and mentally, support his team and modify tactics as the game dictates to the level needed to beat the aussies. Bothams attempt at captaincy illustrates this point and look at the other great all rounders in successful teams, all benefitted from a good captain to support them.
Complain about this postYes, it's pretty desperate for England, isn't it?
Congratulations to Australia, who unquestionably deserve their victories. In reading all of the above posts, I see that none of us are blaming the umpires, the playing conditions or anything else other than our own inadequacies. Australia have played much better than we have and are getting the results they deserve.
In 2005 we managed to beat Australia despite the fact that they were, in many respects, a better team player for player than England. This took immense grit and determination by England plus a little bit of good fortune along the way. If you recall, the Ashes were still very much in doubt at tea on the final day of the Oval test. It had taken all England had to just stay with Australia in that series.
Then a wonderful innings by Pietersen saw us home.
This winter we have seen England perform below their best and Australia, determined to regain what they lost, play to their full and brilliant potential. The interesting thing is the magnitude of the difference: currently 4 - 0, there are few England supporters who would bet against our team returning home having lost the Sydney test as well.
In other words, we scraped an Ashes series win last time. This time, we are being thrashed as no England side has been in years.
I agree with those who wrote, above, that we eased off after the 2005 Ashes win. I think that winning the Ashes was a great goal and we achieved it. Retaining the Ashes was clearly not given the same priority, whereas for Australia the humiliation and pain in losing the Ashes meant that they were extra-motivated to give of their best this time.
No wonder they've won.
I would like to see the England players at Sydney give of their absolute best to prove to themselves that they can compete with the best and to win (or at least not lose). They must first wipe the mental slate clean and decide that Sydney is their own, private "Ashes" from which a phoenix can arise.
Finally, I think that the Barmy Army has been wonderful. It is a shame that England, so far, have not been worthy of the superb support they've received.
Complain about this postI have to agree with Mike W's sentiments. I doubt whether England has ever had to make a first Ashes defence against such experienced and richly talented opponents. Given a favourable rub of the green and the availability of 11 of the best 13 players in the land (in form), England can match Australia, as was demonstrated last year, but the bench strength is simply not of a comparable level. The accusations of complacency and lack of passion are, I'm afraid, symptoms of denial, folks. England showed bucketloads of commitment this year, gaining a draw in India and beating Pakistan (very comfortably) at home for the first time in a generation. I've seen no evidence of this having been lacking Down Under but what I do see is an Australian top 7 with considerably more talent and experience than its opposition, a seam attack with three, rather than two cutting edges, and one of the most prolifically aggressive spinners in Test history. Given the quality of opposition and the fact that three of England's optimum XI were sidelined before the series began, you didn't seriously expect England to avoid a beating, did you?
Complain about this postBring them home now please.
As I stated after day one this had the hallmark of a big innings defeat and so it turned out...so for me no surprise other than Flinty did not seem to care one way or the other...hopefully he does realise NOW he is not a captain...can you imagine a disaster like this series under Vaughan, Close, Brearley???
The team has disgraced England and as with the victory they must now all accept the consequences which means quite a few should not be there this coming summer...but I have this funny feeling a lot of the individulas involved will still be there ...so where Aggers does that leave us for 2009?
Complain about this postCan I just point out to rannyroo (number 8) that his implication that Strauss isn't English because he wasn't born there opens the door for English fans to point out that the Aussie's top scorer in the 4th Test was indeed a Pom, you can't have it both ways.
Personally, the fact that England have been incapable of bowling Australia twice, points to a problem with their bowling coach - all of the bowlers used in the 4th Test are normally a decent bunch, Mahmood's a little inconsistent - but he's still young enough to improve. It could be time to try and find another replacement for the irreplaceable Troy Cooley. Wasim Akram or Dennis Lillee anyone?
Complain about this postYes - the tour has proved to be a bitter disappointment on the field. This was always going to be a very difficult tour - away to a superior team and, yes, one has to agree that the team did lack spirit at times. The shortage of first class cricket before and between Tests was not helpful and Australian tours to UK seem to schedule more time to acclimatise - notwithstandinfg the tour party's familiarity with English conditions. Trescothick's absence, injured players lacking match practice can all be put forward as excuses but that's the game.
What has spoilt the Tour for me has been the BBC's reporting which has degenerated into tabloid style coverage. Jonathan Agnew's continual whingeing and undue emphasis on body language and off the field activities perhaps only emphasised to those who really follow the game (and not just the razzmatazz) that his technical insight into the game is weak.
Whilst his Test playing experience (nearly 100 runs per wicket!) may mislead his BBC employers into thinking that he has superior understanding and input than, say, his predecessor I beg to differ.
England's victories are begrudgingly acknowledged by him eg - "if not for McGrath's injury who knows how things might have turned out"; and defeats are reported with acerbic comments.
No wonder the BBC sports reports degenerate into comedy sessions with all and sundry chipping in with their jokes whenever England lose.
Hardly surprising that the BBC has all but lost it's TV coverage of this game if Aggers is the best that can be put forward to sell the sport to the public.
Sky/Cricinfo have not become the first port of call for true cricket fans just because they have the deeper pockets, - the BBC coverage as Geoff Boycott would put it has been "rubbish".
Complain about this postIt can only get better. I still remember England being bowled out for 52 in 1948 against the Aussies. Five years later we regained the Ashes. It can happen again. Lets look on the bright side.
Complain about this postEngland come home now, you are a disgrace to your Country and yourselves, are you just out there for a "JOLLY". The Barmy Army paid hard earned cash to watch this Ashes Series, what a waste just to see a bunch of loosers.
Complain about this postWhen you arrive back , book into the nearest NHS Hospital for a blood transfusion and a replacement backbone.
Based on what I've seen in the last four tests, I am full of confidence that we have an excellent chance of winning the world cup next year.
Mental illness, retirements, injuries and weak leadership will have all the big boys thinking we'll be a walkover, much to their peril.....hmmmmm.
Complain about this postIt all went wrong at the very beginning with a 14 man game and a 2 day game . What a sorry way to prepair for a 5test against the best in the world. We were second best in all dept with players scoring well in one innings then followed by poor scores i.e Bell and Colinwood .
Complain about this postThey all think they are better than they are
Eng are a disgrace! i am ashamed of the way the aussies have been given us a hiding.
Complain about this postFlintoff needs to admit they did not prepare well and have made some awful decisions instead of bangin on about how well the aussies played.
Yes the aussies played great, but eng were extremely poor! they did not even try to make a match out of this test!
5-0 the final score!
From a non-partisan viewer, I was very keen to see an even battle and am totally disappointed by the lame submission of the English team. Aussies have not played better cricket than, what they played the last time around - it is just that England never tested them.
Having follwed, English cricket for sometime, I wouldn't be surprised that everyone except the management will be blamed for the loss and nothing will come out at the end.
Complain about this postThere's nothing wrong with the English celebrating the Ashes win in the manner they did. Why not? They had been getting hammered for a long while before that, and were playing an Australian side that thought they were the kings of the hill, telling everyone they would win 5 nil and Clarke was going to have his name on the honour board ar Lords after getting a ton. What arrogance! After a thrilling contest where each side gave it their all England won and it was just what the country needed. Everyone thought it was great and exciting, and if the English want to have a party and celebrate, feel good and hand out a few gongs, why not? It's the English celebrating in England the way they want to, and if the onlookers don't like it..tough. They can go back to gazing at their respective navel's as they normally do.
Complain about this postHas everyone forgotten that the Australians sent their team to ARMY TRAINING CAMP to get ready for this series? Get real.
As food for thought, how come their was only a year or so between the two series? England, decimated by injuries would have like the time to get vital men fit. If the present series were being held another seven months from now maybe they would have a team more likely to put up a sterner defence.
Superlatives describing England's performance (lack of) in the 4th test will no doubt abound! I will therefore try and restrict myself to some constructive comments:
Complain about this post1. England need a management and coching team, led by a captain that can motivate and inspire good cricketers to consistently play above 'their best'.
2. The 'central contract' players MUST play a minimum number of county matches at all levels; perhaps a 'point system' rather like the Ryder Cup should be introduced under which the 22 contracted players would have to always 'fight' for their places. To avoid constant wholesale changes, perhaps a nucleus of say five players would be guaranteed a spot (the captain, WC, two strike bowlers, and a spin bowler).
What is clear, is that it is the 'structure' that needs changing, and not just the players!
The Queen was instruicted by her British government to award the English team MBEs. If her Australian government issues a similar instruction I'm sure she'll comply.
Complain about this postI love cricket, but only if it is competitive. I have seen more competitive spirit from 11 and 12 year olds at lunchtime. Now you should see the boys.....
I have seen posts that suggest that the depth of talent available to the oz selectors is a product of a fiercely competitive domestic comp - the Sheffield Shield (currently hijacked by a Milk sponsorship naming rights deal) and selectors who are prepared to drop players even though they are on (and remain on) contract.
Too right.
From a distance, it appears that county cricket is a comfortable employment opportunity for people with some talent but little desire.
SK Warne obviously feels comfortable there, honouring his contract with Hampshire even though retired from any cricket in oz, even with St. Kilda.
Perhaps English Cricket's domestic comp should be redesigned from the ground up. Less clubs, rigorous or ruthless selection policies, less overseas imports.
You blokes used to do quite well once. You could again for an extended time. But the basics have to be in place first.
Complain about this postEngland have been put to the sword, possibly in a fashion that won't occur again in any of her current squad's playing lives. That England will be very competitive against a depleted Australia in years to come is a given, but here's hoping, for the good of cricket in general, and the Ashes in particular, that this remorseless belting into submission will get Flintoff and co. so angry that English cricket will prosper. English cricketing stock is on the rise, and as Vivian Richards said retrospectively about 1975-6, after being beaten 5-1 by Australia, "Sometimes, a hiding is a good thing!" Australia has had a good 15 years; it's time we came back to the fold.
Complain about this postwe have not heard from ian botham since he
Complain about this postarrived in australia.is he still here?
As a Kiwi in the UK I have had to suffer the English crowing with my Australian brothers for 16 long months (we don't even sound the same you stupid Poms), so it is with great pleasure that I can now pretend to be an Aussie for a few months until the rugby starts up again.
Warne and McGrath will be missed by all the worlds cricket fans regardless of nationality and the game will be poorer for their retirement after they complete the 5-0 series win that now, even 2 days of solid rain can not avoid.
Thank you Shane for reviving a lost art, thank you Glen for being THAT good, but thank you most of all to Ponting and Waugh for making teams realise that Test cricket isn't about winning a 5 game series 2-0. Sometimes you've offered teams targets and they've reached them but Australia have this infuriating ability to beat you even when you have the game in the bag.
This applies to all Australian sports and is something that the English need to learn and learn fast. Playing for a draw is why we don't watch soccer in the Southern Hemisphere and it's what makes us so good on the international stage.
I'd rather lose than draw a game, as much as it hurts but I hate playing 80 minutes on a freezing Saturday afternoon to walk off in a tie. It's not sharing the honours, it's a weakminded way to compete and thanks to the Australian team of the last 15 years, hopefully it's going for good.
Lastly, thanks to the 2006 Aussie team for softening the English up for us ahead of the tri-series and we'll see you (and probably lose to you) in the final in mid Feb, while England fly home after finishing a poor 3rd.
And can you PLEASE shut up about 1966!!!!
Complain about this postAs an Aussie in pom central I am enjoying this. After enduring 2005 I can but laugh at any pom who thought that they had turned the corner, the planets were aligned in your favour back then, they have moved off into their normal orbits. You need to get your top 30 players much hungrier and then bond them
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/5278376.stm
Not sharing Christmas lunch with each other while on tour - I cant imagine the aussie 11+ going their own way. I couldnt imagine going on a tour myself and then doing similar... very bizzare
Complain about this postFollowing the earlier the post of the Australian Team recieving an offer of MBE's, As a Proud Australian, I would like to add that this well due considering the status/dominance of the australian cricket over the last decade. I would think it would be a great reward for the austrialian criketers considering that the MBE or even an knighthood is applicable to countries under the commonwelath, and in the past cricketers have been bestowed this Honour ie: Sir Donald Bradman, Sir Vivan Richards etc...
Complain about this postThe All Blacks win over England in the 1995 Rugby World Cup Quarter Final has always stood out for me as the most clinical demolition of any national team in any sport.........That is until this Ashes series.
In the first three tests Punter & the boys played with the Poms, these last three days they have chewed on the Poms.....Next week at the SCG we shall spit you out....HAPPY NEW YEAR
England has got exactly what they deserve from the series..........NOTHING
I was nearly ill watching the OTT celebrations last year., parades, medals, DVD's etc etc...All for a series that I still say you won by the skin of your teeth and two runs!!!
Aside from good few drinks I doubt we'll here much from Punter and the boys........We've got a World Cup to win
C'mon Aussie C'mon
Complain about this postAs a follower of all teams that bear the name England I have learnt to loose. For me its not a problem - As long as the management and team show some guts and fighting spirit. Its not a disgrace to be beaten by a team that is technically better and play as a team sport should be played, together and for each other. I have been stupid enough to stay up a few times to see the best that England can provide take on the Aussies. Where are our leaders on the pitch? On the field our players seem to play as they don't want to be there and when batting they seem to have a game to see who can play the worst shot to get out.
Finally if anybody understands the logic of playing Giles and Jones and a half fit captain who has forgotton how to bat and does not know how to lead players I am happy to listen.
Complain about this postTo hear Fletcher trying to blame rain and a damp pitch for England's poor batting in the first innings and to cite Australia's collapse in the first part of their first innings as proof of this was the last straw. What about Australia's subsequent recovery and where was the rain during England's second innings? The England management seem to suffer from an excess of the national malaise that if you talk about it enough it will happen. Talk comes cheap. Let's see some determined action of the kind demonstrated by the Aussies. The pathetic insistence that Vaughan will be our saviour despite his long absence from serious cricket and the decision to send him to Australia in the first place is yet another example.
Complain about this postAll I ask is that Flintoff is now parted from the captaincy after clearly showing he does not have what it takes. The argument used by those who supported his captaincy was that he was a great leader of men and the team would rally behind him.
In reality he's so laid back and seemingly completely oblivious to the nature of the defeat facing up to him that the team have lost all faith in him. His reaction to the loss that nobody was disheartened is amazing.
Strauss had started to make the job his own and didn't deserve to lose the captaincy. He led his men far better than Flintoff has.
I can only hope Vaughan soon returns to start putting the boot up a few backsides and drilling them into order again but until he does Strauss absolutely must be given the captaincy back once this Test series is over.
Complain about this postEngland need to revert to the practise of years ago of restricting foreign players to one only in club and county cricket. We are nuturing foreign talent. Graveny and Fletcher must go and most of the players sent to Iraq/Afghanistan in order to learn some courage.
Complain about this postWhat amazes me is why the ICC don't investigate the blatent pitch tampering by the Aussies.
The Aussies run up a big score on a batting friendly pitch and then, while England are padding up, the hosts secretly change the pitch and the atmospheric conditions so the ball swings, spins and bounces all at the same time.
If only we'd had Darryl Hair - he's so good at seeing things the rest of us can't. He would have awarded all four tests to England.
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Complain about this postLike most cricket fans my xmas has not been the best,my hat is off to a great Australian side i also feel sorry for our bowlers who had a few major decisions go against them on day 2 that would have made a big difference to this match.....But i feel England has realy missed the leadership of Michael Vaughn. Freddie has tried but we never looked confident but alas looked like lambs to the slaughter,i dont think the gap is that big between the sides just confidence and team play.Were even worse at 1 day cricket so dont expect too much too soon........
I entirely agree with Andy- England Cricket team is like an old boys club to which you seem to have life membership if you are in the favored section.
Complain about this postWhile I enjoyed last year's triumph as well as anyone else, I was never convinced by it ithat we were good enough to retain the Ashes in Australia, and nothing that happened afterwards gave me better hopes; but I did expect the team to put up a fight before being beaten. Or is this a plot to spoil the Australians' triumph but making victory seem too easy to be proud of?
Complain about this post"Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
Or does she only do that for her English cricket team?"
Er No. It wasn't the Queen t'was Tony Blair who nominated the England for their MBE - which we now know stands for Mightly Big Embarrassment.
As one Aussie commentator said after they received their gongs "if the Poms enjoy winning so much you'd think they'd do it more often!"
If the England squad had any backbone and moral conscience they'd send their MBEs back as they were obviously obtained fraudulently
Complain about this postAs if losing so dreadfully wasn't bad enough, I have to sit and listen to Andrew Flintoff and Duncan Fletcher tell me that the whole team is trying out there, and the Australians are very good etc etc. When will someone be honest enough to come out and say the team are being outplayed because there is no leadership, no management, no passion. These guys are meant to be professionals aren't they? There isn't enough honesty in sport now adays anyway. Anyone would think we had been watching a different game back here!
Complain about this postThe England football team were followed to Germany by their wives and look where that left them. Now the cricket team have done the same thing. The presence of families is bound to shift the focus away from the job in hand. No one likes to be away from their loved ones for long periods, but these men are in Australia to do a job, not to entertain their families. As for the five who made other plans for christmas day, shame on them, and shame on the management for letting them do it. Finally, and most importantly, shame on the Captain and Management for assuming anyone back here in the UK belives them when they tell us they're trying, and playing for pride. I saw little pride out there today!
I entirely agree with Andy- England Cricket team is like an old boys club to which you seem to have life membership if you are in the favored section.
Complain about this postEmbarrassing, pathetic, what they need is a firm strategy to avoid defeat in the next test, how about get the next plane home
Complain about this postI am sorry to say that this series has been one of the most shambolic ever. The England squad has let go of countless chances to turn the series around both on and off the team- Monty Panesar, Collingwood’s double hundred and some good bowling in all four tests. England have frequently established momentum but sadly not been consistent and continued the momentum. Flintoff is one of my sporting heroes and i refuse to turn on him because he IS a fantastic cricketer. However, i cannot deny that him, like Botham, should never have been selected as captain. Fletch should also resign immediately as he is clearly past it and stupid enough not to admit it.
Complain about this postHowever, i am shocked at some of the comments posted on this blog. Many have dubbed the 2005 series as a fluke. Do not kid yourself. England played magnificently in that series and was the better side. It has nothing o do with flimsy excuses made by England fans (!) that the only reason England won was because of poor Australian selecting and dodgy umpiring decisions. All of the Australian bowlers are consistently good as they have shown in this series but they were not so in that series. I read one post saying it was 5-0 even before the series started. If the England squad has got as much loyalty and confidence to themselves as the so-called "England fans" on this blog, no wonder this series has been so dire. I refuse to buckle under Australia’s arrogance and they're appalling sportsmanship and I am disappointed that the England side keep on praising Australia instead f showing some retaliation. Has anyone seen the winning Australian bowlers going over to comfort the losing England batsmen like Andrew Flintoff did at Edgebaston? That is real sportsmanship not Shane Warne getting 700 wickets and gloating about it
There is very little anyone can say other than we still have this opaque view of the world where we are the inventors and the greatest ~ which is wholly false. The England Cricket Team is poor when compared to other national sides, as are our Football, Rugby and Athletics Teams. Whose to blame? Liberalist Politicians who cut school and grass root funding and development years ago. It will take another 10 to 15 years to get back to where we were and only if we make high level commitment and funding available. Volunteers can only do so much. Paid skills are required. What is the difference then? Emotions. Emotional intelligence [determination and single mindedness coupled with strength of resolve] is what the Australians have and we don't. Thats why we are beaten before walking out on the pitch. Thats why the Australians have won before they leave the dressing room. The England side in Oz never stood an earthly and anyone who thought otherwise is ostrich like in their views. Come home England and face up to the facts. Work, train, develop your EQ emotions and then start on your technical skills.
Complain about this postYou summed it up pretty there, Paul Davenport.
England are pathetic at cricket, at football and at rugby. We can do nothing!
Once we win something, we get taken over by the excessive media hype, give our players knighthoods, commercial endorsement deals etc etc. But thats' where they stop. They rarely ever perform to the same level again.
No one can deny that England have a fantastic bunch of players at their disposal in both football and cricket. But why do they still not dominate their sports on an international level? Too much pressure from the media? Too much expectation from the public? Lack of team ethic?
Flintoffs' captaincy has not worked out. We need Andrew Strauss. Remember, the best player doesn't always make the best captain i.e. Botham, Flintoff.
Look at Murali and Warne. These two are the best bowlers in their sides - but are they captain? No.
Captain needs tactical awareness not media-image awareness.
Lets' stop with the Hollywood-style cricket and play with discipline in Sydney. A Test Match lasts 5 days, not 20 or 50 overs. There's a difference.
Complain about this postMy entire life I have loved cricket, but yesterday I decided after the Hayden-Symonds partnership that I am never watching cricket again. I did not see the final day at Melbourne after Flintoff gifted Symonds a hundred by going far too defensive too early in his innings. Also, how Rudi Koertzen couldn't give one of the 3 palpable LBWs against Hayden and Symonds disgusted me further. Cricket is without doubt the most hideous game to watch when it is non-competitive and when one team's management does not even know its best team (eg Giles ahead of Panesar, Jones ahead of Read) then there is something seriously wrong. Further, why do international sides continue to bowl short to Australia? When will they learn to bowl McGrath, and Clark lengths? Aust batsmen consider a ball bouncing any where between their hips and shoulders to be a 4-ball. It may occasionally get them out - but it is the lowest % play against Aus. Dear God, why have you forsaken me?
Complain about this postI feel thoroughly demoralised by the performances put up by England over the past month. Only during the first innings at Adelaide did we look like a real team competing with the Aussies. Since our Ashes victory, team management and the ECB have made error after error! Losing Troy Cooley, appointing Freddie as captain (although a fantastic and inspirational player), poor preparation and team selection have handicapped England against far and away the best team in the world. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but these arguments were voiced way before the tour had even commenced! Losing to Australia is not an embarressment by any stretch of the imagination but by the decisons made since regaining the Ashes, we may as well have booked a seat for the urn and not bothered turning up! I expect to see only the same again when I attend the 5th Test at the SCG.
Complain about this postI now realise that the BBC highlights timing - near midnight while the next day's play is in progress!! - cleverly avoids the watershed. No English youngsters have been exposed to this pathetic gutless rubbish as thanks to the ECB only the minority of families have access to it.
Complain about this postMonments of brilliance but no cohesion is how I remember this. The odd glimour of hope only to be utterly destroyed by a determined Aussie team with key players not wishing to retire until the Ashes are back in Australia. For me Warnie has given it his all to ensure he can retire on a high.
Wrong captain, bad choice of players (Monty needed from the start), lack of fighting spirit. What is going on?
Oh to see Vaughan and Simon Jones back and maybe just maybe theres a chance to rebuild.
Win back some pride in Sydney lads.
By one English lass who will never give up hope though totally gutted.
Complain about this postReports just come in that the ECB are going to have an inquirey into the leaked bowlers document...While your at it ECB how about sending the ACB a huge apology for the final 2 days revenue lost at the MCG. We filled your grounds for 5 days in the last Ashes series and the ECB made millions from it...then what did you do? you lot got greedy and flogged your poor cricketers over the next 14 months...the result? well 4-0 so far for starters. I've been blowing your trumpet since you arrived on these shores but today was the pits England, where is the moral fibre of last years ashes team? All we wanted was a contest, was that asking too much? Strauss, Cook,[one for the future] Bell, improved heaps since last year] KP, [should be batting at 3] Hoggard [your best player], Collingwood [200 in SA well done] a fit Freddy, Vaughn, Trescothic, Harmison, Read,[can keep and bat] S.Jones [your best bowler by miles] and Monty [who will be a world class player ] all have it in bucketloads but need to bond as a team together to show it. Out of the lot above who would I take for the aussie team? Well monty to replace Warnie and Simon Jones and maybe Hoggard who have displayed fighting spirit by the bucketloads, the rest? well we have some very good young players who you will see in your shores in 2009.
Complain about this postTo those old codgers Warnie and McGrath both all time legends of the game you will be sorely missed and thank you from all ozzies for the years of pleasure you have given us, hope you all watched these games closely poms it's all about playing as a team and never giving in until the last ball is bowled, that's why we are number one and you are a very distant second.
Good luck in Sydney but Melbourne was the test I pencilled in a rare pom victory [before Warnie retiring] can't see Ponting sending out pidgeon as a loser on his home ground in his final test, Monty will love the SCG looking forward to England at least salvaging some pride, good luck next week.
The English lack the ability, in any team sport it seems, to learn how to hunt as a pack, recover from defeat to pummel the opposition or co-ordinate a strategy to offer flexible solutions in the face of adversity.
Australian cricketers hunt as a pack, New Zealand rugby players hunt as a pack, Brazillian football teams hunt as a pack.
English teams nervously look for a leader as they crumble under a barrage of abuse from nations that know that sport means putting up a fight to secure a victory.
Maybe our next coach will be former SAS? Maybe then we'll learn something about making individual, talented workers gel as a team.
Maybe.
Complain about this postWhat is so galling is the meekness of the abject surrender. Cricketers talk the talk but are increasingly short on the walk. I read that Flintoff hailed Oz etc. Very well but what about his team - when is he going to have a chance to hail at least one win. Please, we the longsuffering cricket lovers in England are waiting for a win.
Complain about this postI think all you poms should give up on cricket and let’s start a football ashes series!!! Wouldn’t that be a great idea! Cause cricket just aint England’s game....but then again the football might end up "just like the cricket"
Does anybody remember when Australia played England in a friendly a few years back and the score was 2-0, what was the aussies chant?...It’s just like the cricket...It’s just like the cricket....and so on
But seriously the ashes tour of 2005 was a great series and England deserved to win (this is coming from an Australian supporter) but it was very evident in 2005 that the series could of gone either way and that was when England had their best side in years and playing at home. And the Aussies even though they lost they played for pride. But in this series it’s not even close, I agree with Aggers and Geoffrey Boycott that the English players have given up and it’s quite an embarrassing thing to see on the screen after watching every ball in 2005 compared to 2006!
The English players for the 5th test here in Sydney must stand out/up and be counted and play for pride and if/or they can’t beat the Aussies at least play for a draw!!!
Complain about this postFirst of all congratulations to Australia and in response to an earlier post if Shane Warne and Glen McGrath do not recieve some kind of "gong" from the queen then it will further confirm how completely irrelevant the over reactive 2005 celebrations were for this English cricket team.
Complain about this postThese two have been a credit to sport full stop.
Now England.....
As an Englishman I am so utterly embarressed and dissapointed in this inept badly prepared and poorly led bunch I find words difficult to describe. If I performed with this ineptiitude at work I would expect to be dismissed and this is now surely what Fletcher must get, as Geoffrey Boycott rightly summised prior to the series.
This whole sorry tour has been a disaster from the moment Freddie was named captain. A simpleton would realise that for this very talented player this was one task too much (as previosly expected of Ian Botham), you cannot do everything brilliantly and Fred.....you are simply not captain material.
As for Strauss well "wet" springs immediately to mind as do the thought of most of his airy fairy shots that get him out? Vice captain? He's not good enough to be batting for England let alone be granted this honour!
I could go on....but the main point here is this English team has talent and never in a series can it have been so completely wasted and abused.
Heads MUST roll on return and the whole structure analyzed in order to prevent such abject performance and humiliation in the future and for Gods sake you lot show some pride in your country in the 5th test!!!!
England cricketers should take comfort that the Royal Family is far more benign than days of yore. I recall from my school history lessons that a displeased Queen makes for a short life for fallen favorites.
Complain about this postPerhaps the urn requires topping up with the ashes of a losing England captain!!
For so much promised and so little delivered by England.
There are only two questions out of todays result which need to be asked.
1...Did you give it your best effort today?
2...Did you simply turn up?
If the answer is either yes to both,the problems run deeper in the England team then anyone thinks.
England is being lapped in every facet of the game.
And every weakness in the England team is being attacked and exposed by a ruthless Australian Team.
England was in every test in this series to date right up to the toss of the coin.
Its simply been that bad!
Complain about this postWell, what can you say! What really astounded me was the complete and total disbelief shown by the guys out there. I know that we've been spoilt over the past few years, but here's my suggestions for putting things right:
1) Let's have a Captain that can actually really captain a side. Whilst I love Freddie, he's no leader of men.
2) DF needs to move aside, and another good coach put in his place.
3) Is it me, or am I the only one who thinks that Harmisson has lost it?
4) Cook is a good, but not great, player. He's had his chances.
5) Can somebody do the decent thing, and spell the end of Giles's career?
6) Is it worth reminding the players that they are actually playing for the Country?
7) Evolve your team, or risk the same fate as the dinosaurs.
8) LETS NOT PANIC! We'll regain them in 2009!
Roll on 2007!!
Complain about this postSo english cricket hasn't changed much in a long time. The 2005 Ashes series could have gone either way thanks to a poor australian performance. The 2006 series has been won by a far superior team thanks to consistency and pride shown by both players and selectors.
Complain about this postSurely this proves it's time for Mr Graveney to be relieved of duty. He's been there too long, and english cricket is falling apart.
It is usual that England can only play within England and we have to realize that the team isn't good enough as compare to Australia (even other teams as well - check ICC rating). We were expecting too much from them before Ashes and now criticising them. While England can only play test matches very well (only in home grounds), while they are even not capable to play one day matches. So, it is better to forget everything and don't think anything for future.
Complain about this postParade them around London in a tumbril this time!
They may as well play Joyce, Plunkett and Dalrymple in the last Test, otherwise they were taken on an expensive ride for nothing. Let's face it, they can't do any worse!
Complain about this postThe whole issue with English cricket is that it's an elitist sport. The best cricket players in England don't even play at county level. To play you need to come from the right family.
Complain about this postI feel that it is time to blood the younger seam bowlers like Tremlett & Broad and leave Harmy out. Also we need to look at the talent of Steve Davies from Worcs and Tim Ambrose from Warwicks (both capable batters) to see if they have the temprement for the big game.
Complain about this postI would also be interested to know what players in the Academy have shone through.
Would Bob Key be a good captain for England?
He seemed to do ok for England "A".
I think we also need a bit of a Sargeant-Major type in the dressing room to bang their heads together and maybe get rid of these little cliques that seem to have sprung up on this tour!
Those who say we were outplayed, and in so suggesting that the Aussies are miles better, are wrong.
The English under-played, consistently, in almost every department. For whatever reasons, and there are many, what strikes me the most, and most embarrassingly so, is how gutless and careless we have been.
I mean careless in the sense that, since 2005, we simply seem to care less than the Aussies about winning.
We have the talent and arguably a greater depth of it than they have down under. But our 'English' management seems hopelessly inadequate and bereft of the capacity to inspire or, where needs be, apply boots to arses.
If anything typifies, for me, the rank state of our game, it is this: read the comments of Ponting (articulate, passionate, intelligent) alongside those of our captain (passionate, perhaps). There the similarity ends. Freddie's an awsome player and I'm in no position to criticise him at all. Fletcher and Graveney and other directing-donkeys should take a long look at themselves, then wander down-field and find some hay until auditions start for next year's nativity plays.
Cricket followers tend to be more intelligent than, for the most part, footy fans. So, please, treat us with respect. Most of us have achieved in different walks of life and therefore find it insulting to have waved in our faces a machine so unsuited to the task in hand that, were it a car, I'd be wondering why it had only one wheel. Which, in keeping with ECB PR finesse, would be described as 'much wheel as is needed for the job'. Meanwhile, the ageing and not all that reliable Australian Holden Spectacular blasts over the line in clouds of smoke.
Whatever the post mortem reveals following England's return home, don't bet your house on honesty and action. A little bit of either, some months ago, might have gone a long way towards retaining the Ashes.
Well done, Oz.
Complain about this postIt's a shame, but who really believed we would/could retain the Ashes?
Last year, we narrowly beat the Aussies on our own turf, with an absolutely fantastic team effort. Now, we're suffering injuries, and that has lost us a couple of games (also because I believe an allrounder cannot be captain). As soon as we lose a few, people start calling for scalps.
The Aussies had the same last year. We stuck with the same 11 players, and only replaced one for the last test, because Simon jones couldn't be ready in time (or at all). (And to be fair, Colly hasn't had a great series, but he's certainly earned the right to be there full time now).
Continuous replacements have cost us. We need one captain, a vice captain, and he takes over when the captain is out. No questions. For each player. there should be an outright replacement, who comes in when the first choice is injured. No questions.
We need to pick our guns and stick to them.
And might I suggest a boot camp in the Lake District for the team?
Complain about this postTo the English supporters out there, I firstly apologise for some of the rather rude and cocky Australians who have posted arrogant comments - this is not the opinion of the majority of Aussies!
Yes, we are certainly glad the Ashes are back, and yes, we probably will give the lads a tickertape parade, but no, we wont be asking for MBE's across the board, as this was no surprise like the last series.
England were slightly weakened this tour and Australia pounced. Nothing more, nothing less. You must remember that Australia have done the same to most other nations in Australia too!
With a few retirements on the cards, and a home series, England will be muich closer next time around and Australia will surely take that on board before proclaiming the ashes are ours for another 20 years!
Complain about this postParade them around London in a tumbril. Play Joyce Olunkett & Dalrymple in the last test & give the captaincy to Panesar
Complain about this postAgree with Stuart. What we have here is a group of people more intersted in their own well being rather than the cause. Wives and families to make sure that they dont get depressed, Pop Star Salary to make sure they don't starve. Top class hotels to make sure they aren't uncomfortable. Supposed athletes at peak of physical fitnes and mental strength who must be pampered and who complain of how tough the job is with so much pressure to succeed. I know a group of men who are at a higher level of both physical and mental strength who are dieing for a cause with out the trappings seen here, and with out question give 100% all day every day. No families, hotels, or large salary in Iraq
Complain about this postIt was all to predictable.
Complain about this postHanding out honours directly after the Ashes win was not good.
Picking injured and out-of-form players was very risky.
Little chance to play, after arriving in Australia was crazy. Families joining them before playing at least 1 Test was daft. This was not a holiday!
Wrong choice of Captain.
One day slog shots seem to be the only way some batsmen ever get any runs.
Wrong spinner selected.
Poor tactics, pretty indifferent fielding most of the time.
Finally the players do not display any fight.
Jonathan
Interesting analysis - but are you really telling me that Kevin Pietersen is not a team player?!
I'm a Notts fan - we have known this for years!!
Complain about this postThere is still time for the team to get back in time to appear in pantomime as that is where most clowns are this time of year.
Complain about this postMr Agnew - I have already posted several comments in the debate section - but your article firmly nails it on head. Lack of desire - application - team spirit - mental fortitude - the will to win at all costs - attributes that the Australians have in spades.
Complain about this postUnfortunately I have seen it all too often in not only English sport (English Football Team and English Rugby Union team) but also in English politics and the way in which we manage our country. It seems we are becoming a nation of defeatists - molly coddled from the consequences of failure and all too frightened to risk all to win. A nation of people that bends with the breeze and unwilling to take the difficult choices which ensure success. Shane Warne - "if we had lost the ashes I would have continued until we got them back" - versus Marcus Trescothick - "I'm off home" - there really is no comparison - its real men (the Australians) v boys (englishmen)
I think the last but one entry by "Johnny Tokyo" is disgraceful. To suggest that "Freddie" Flintoff has "a drink problem" is frankly libellous and lacks any objective evidence. Flintoff does not "slur his words" and speaks with a perfectly clear Lancastrian accent. There is no reason to suggest that he lacks commitment or competence nor that he should be stripped of the captaincy. He has given his best while being in a side with it's back to the wall. To suggest otherwise is a graceless calumny. The simple fact is that England have been outclassed by a better team that has played with a level of intensity we have been unable to match. With the retirement of four of their leading players within the next several months, I expect the next ashes series in England to be much more keenly contested with our team having a very good chance of regaining the urn. A final thought: Vaughan has not played serious cricket for over a year and must be required to demonstrate his competence as a batsman once again before being restored to the test side. In the meantime, the captaincy should remain with Flintoff.
Complain about this postAustralia will always win when we, can continue to play aggressive cricket. There is no-one with enough bottle in the England team to stand up to the mind games that they play. It is no longer a game of skill and luck, there's the mental game being played every ball.
Let's face it only, once during the current series has an Englishman, (& I dare say it he's not even English if I'm right), did we see a player stand up to the mind games. That was Pietersen in Adelaide and he nearly cost us the game. And Warne lost the plot and McGrath played poorly.
Your captain is a good player but he doesn't have the tenacity or agressiveness to demand Australia respect his players. At what point in the series did he back his men?
Yet Australia seems to be able to dig deeper when the dark times arrive and turn these into winning positions. Whether it's going after a bowler or bowling hard, fast and aggressively.
The best thing England could've done for Australian cricket was win the Ashes in 2005.
Please get behind your team and let's have a stronger England compete in the future.
Complain about this postSpot on Aggers, what a complete shambles and total embarrassement. All the credit goes to the Aussies who have the skill, discipline and fortitude to be consistent winners. The England team have nothing to show the world except how to be totally crap, don't blame Fletcher either, it is down to the players and they should hang their heads in shame and be on the first plane home after the fifth test. All we seem to be consistently good at is losing and losing badly, no doubt we will put on another equally bad show at the world cup. Why bother, that is a question I am sure many will be asking.
Complain about this postWe need a wide ranging enquiry into this bankrupt shambles covering everything from are our players getting enough cricket to the tour itinerary and the judgement calls made since landing in Australia, not to mention the shabby performances. People must be made accountable and slung out of the game, not moved to a less demanding job. Traditionally this would be the work of three wise men, so the ECB will have to borrow them from somone.
Also, how is Harmison able to retire from ODIs? He is a contracted player. How would your boss react if you told him you no longer felt you wanted to carry out the most stressful part of your job?
Complain about this postI have hugely enjoyed the informative podcasts with you and Geoffrey, Aggers, but can I ask why on earth is Mark Pougatch allowed to get away with such anodyne interviews time after time? It's pretty pointless 'interviewing' English players and then not grilling them on why they have been so lacklustre and made such an embarrasing fist of this series, and instead letting them get away with 'non-answers' and rubbish about 'positives' - Hoggard the worst offender by the way, please don't waste time broadcasting his views again.
Complain about this postPougatch's effort with Fletcher today was about as poor as England's batting -he really let Duncan off the hook, instead of asking the questions the whole country has been asking. Let Boycott do the interviewing and get rid of Pougatch, then you'll have the perfect podcast!
Don't worry if the Queen doesn't award MBE's to the Australian Cricket team they can always steal them.
Complain about this postFlintoff's post match quotes were typical of his captaincy thus far, he was blase about the defeat, making flippant comments about "we're not doing cartwheels about the result" and "we are not down hearted". We, the fans, want to hear him sound gutted and sounding embarrassed as he should be - but he sounds like he's treating the whole thing like a "jolly trip".
If this comes from the Captain then what hope is there for turning the team around? He said much the same after the first, second and third defeats and now he's lost all credibility and sounds like a scratched record.
Even in defeat England fail to understand what it takes to be a winner.
Complain about this postIsn't about time that martial law was imposed upon English cricket/sport? Perhaps handing cricket bats to the next eleven men to pass SAS selection would be the answer; at least England might have the qualities of "determination, organisation and commitment" mentioned elsewhere. This is one pom who's hoping that Australia go on to win 5-0. Well played Australia, but don't blame the Queen for that shameful decision to dish out the honours, we all know whose idea that was!
Complain about this postI was lucky enough to be at the MCG in 1986 when England won the match by an innings (and therefore the ashes).
The current team has no leadership, a couple of millionaire primadonnas and no balls.
Australia hurt badly having lost the ashes, this lot will come back to the UK and still be considered for sports personality.
Losers
Complain about this postFletcher's epitaph will read He failed to prepare and was therefore prepared to fail.
What kind of coach can take a team into their biggest ever series without giving due care and attention to the preparation necessary to secure the Ashes? Schoolboys up and down the country have the answer- practice in the middle!
Where will the next coach come from?
Complain about this postOnce again congrats for a great coverage, better coming through this site than either cricket australia or Channel Eddie.
Love to pose a question to you all.
Say before the 2005 Ashes series we brought in all the technology talked about and on the basis of an Australian request for a reveiw immeadiately after the Kasprowicz decision at the end of the Edgebaston test, the decision is correctly reversed (and to all bemoaning umpires decisions do we remember that one??), then Lee goes on in the next over to score the winning runs required, Australia goes up 2-0 and goes on to hold the ashes (2-0, 2-1, 2-2...who cares)
However, what would have happened from there??
Shane Warne now tells us he would have retired. Maybe Glenn Magrath and even Gilchrist may have left the Australian side.
Would Australia have gone on to plan meticulously to regain the ashes with the burning desire they cleary have had, or having won, just arrogantly gone on with their attitude of thinking they can win everything?
How would England have responded? A few less book launches for starters, but I am sure a huge desire that they did have the ability to knock the Aussies off and a burning desire to do so.
I mention the above scenario for two reasons, one is you can argue about the 'what ifs' of cricket or any sport till the cows come home, doesn't change the result.
Secondly, how are the two teams going to respond to the future from here??
As an aussie I hope to hell we rise to the challenge of 2009 knowing we won't have some of our greats there but knowing that it is opportunity for others to step into their shoes and hold the ashes on English soil (though having no Warne is just too hard to imagine replacing - but maybe he can make a cameo)
But I also hope England re-invent whatever it was that created the 2005 environment, because even though I love giving England an absolute caning, that 2005 series by far the best series of competitive, exciting cricket of my lifetime and I'd pay huge money to see it everytime (with a little bit extra if we were allowed to win the odd one)
The knock on impact to the game throughout the world would also be incalculable with all nations being forced to 'raise the bar' in how they approach their cricket to be 'the best' - the game would flourish!!
Let's hope.
Complain about this postthe england cricket shambles is not due to a lack of individual talent - it's all about a lack of team spirit, organisation, self confidence & self belief.
Complain about this postI have a terrible feeling that a similar shambles might happen at the 2012 olympics when I see the lack of decent organisation for some very talented young athletes - especially comapred with the terrific model of the ozzie sport's academies.
When will the UK selectors etc ever learn from other successful models (like the ozzies) and implement a proper sports strategy???
This humiliation came as no surprise to me. The Aussies selectors contributed to the loss of the last series in the UK by not selecting Michael Hussey and fielding a weakened fast bowling attack with Kasprovitch and Jason Gillespie. The injury to Glen McGrath was also a major factor.
A full strength Aussie side was always going to thrash us. Even at 84/5 someone always seems to be able to step up to plate to rescue them. I'm sorry but we do not seem to have that calibre of player in our team.
I'll be the first to congratulate them. Their A side would beat our Test side.
Look out for further humiliation in the One Day Internationals. I doubt we will reach the finals.
Complain about this postWhen will England start to play with some pride . It looks as though they have accepted a 5-0 humiliation.
Complain about this postThis has been hugely disappointing .
Not sure what to say but the two questions I would like to pose - how many of the England Team from this test match would get into the Australian eleven? And how does this compare with 2005?
I suspect the 2 answers are quite different and not many from todays side would get into the Australian eleven.
Says a lot for me about selection, preparation and most crucially ability.
Complain about this postI totally agree with Mark Weighall. 5 Bowlers is ludicrous and it is error that led to picking both Giles and Jones and still going in a Batsman short.
We need to understand that, like most all rounders Flintoff is primarily a Bowler who can bat well. He is a real asset batting at 8 but a liability at 6.
Add this to the other main gaffe - picking Pietersen at 5!! Not only does this put our best batsman too far down the order but it also negates Bell's strength - marshalling the tail. This is where he made most of his runs in the summer. He has looked lost at 3
Well done Mr Fletcher - you have managed the impossible and have weakened both our batting and our bowling at the same time.
Complain about this postFor a total and utter disservice to Bristish sport - do you think that the Queen will ask the English players for those MBE's back?
Complain about this postVery depressed caught the snipet on the radio it is another depressing night!!! I cant take the pain no more glad I dont work with any aussies! I must say that Australia are incredible and deserve all the praise for this performance. It is time for England to take stock like the aussies did last time and get them back I want England to dominate not celebrate the "good old days"! Here's me hoping for 4-1!!!!
Complain about this postI have stayed up every morning of every test until lunch, and i have to say i have enjoyed some of the cricket england played.
The second test however was the downfall, from 550 declared to losing. I was sat wtching our batsmen batting with a run rate of 0.92 thinking what an earth is going on?
At the end of the day we are simply not good enough at this moment in time. Management structure, organisation and itinerary is the foundation of this demise.
Complain about this postGreetings from Hawaii!
There has a lot of drivel spouted here about England.
The facts of the matter are that in 2005 Australia arrived carrying several out of form and past it players (eg me) - they have since rebuilt both the team and their form such that they are far stronger than that series - ie Hussey, Symonds & Clark for the woeful Katich, me & Gillespie plus Clarke's return to form - while England have lost key players to injury (Vaughan/Tresco/Jones) and loss of form (Strauss/Flintoff/Harmison) plus others have been shown up (Giles/Read). There are some positives (Cook/Monty) and lessons to be learned:
- Belly & Colly are mere stop gaps
- Fourth seamer needed urgently (Anderson/Plunkett/Mahmood are not progressing and nor would it appear that they know where they are putting the ball)
- avoid going into further series as undercooked as this by more careful management of the fixture list
- neither Jones nor Read are the answer as a test wicketkeeper - the fact is that England need to play 5 bowlers if Flintoff is one of the 5, therefore in the absence of a second bowler that can bat in the top 7 the keeper needs to do so - Jones is not up to it and Read should not bat any higher than 8 (preferably 9).
As a final point - spending xmas lunch together and running around being massively positive are irrelevant - class on the field matters.
Moving forward I think England have the players to begin to solve their problems though - Joyce, Broad & Davies spring to mind plus some interesting young leg spin prospects - and they need Flintoff and Harmison to find some form
Complain about this postCoMon boys just remember Sir Winston Churchill quotations!!!???.....we will fight them on the beaches….and let this 5th test be our finest hour/s…. Never in the field of cricket conflict was so much owed by so few to so many….. It is no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary….CoMon old chaps
Complain about this postAustralia will win the series 5-0. Four years ago, Australia was up 4-0 and lost the meaningless dead rubber in Sydney. There is a real determination to impose themselves and send a message to the English as well as to farewell the legends McGrath and Warne.
Complain about this post2005 was SUCH an exciting series because it was close, several games could have gone either way in the final session. Yes, we probably had the 'run of the green', but we capitalised and remained mentally strong. Even the sight of Harmy striding out to the centre gave a sense of hope, 'Ah he'll knock off a few runs ...' we'd say. Any such confidence has been clinically deconstructed by the Australians - no, no just the players but the whole side from management, selectors, coaches, psychologists, physios ... the lot.
Ultimately, one can only blame the lack of leadership and inspiration (on and off the field). Flintoff has bowled his heart out and no-one doubts his fine qualities as a cricketer as well as the talisman for the 2005 success with his aggression and bloody-mindedness. However, I have a sense of deja vue when Botham captained the side, similarly inspirational and exciting with both bat and ball but a disastrous captain. At least Freddie is a stop-gap until Vaughn's return. Who are England training up to be Vaughn's ultimate replacement?
Complain about this postAnother hopeless English performance.
Mssrs Flintoff & Pietersen need to get over there own egos and get on with showing some backbone.
Drop Harmison or Mahmood bring in Joyce to bolster the middle order and prevent the tail starting at six with Flintoff. Move Read above him and get him back down to 8 where he belongs.
No doubt the preparation was all wrong and Fletchers picks were wrong but a lot of these English bolwers need a run in county cricket to get overs under their belts.
A real re-think of the selection process and all aspects of this tour must take place. At least I know who not to put my money on for the World Cup "England"!
Complain about this postEngland in the footie World Cup kept saying there was a good team spirit and determination blah blah blah. They failed. England cricket team keep spouting the same blurb. Good team spirit? Determination? I'm sick of hearing all that "positive" nonesense. Sounds like a good talk the talk. But what about the walk? Seems like our lads are only good at walking to and from the pavillion. There's no excuses. Batting order? Nonesense. The simple fact is the England cricket team (like the footie team) are plain and simply not anywhere near good enough. Sorry, add the rugby team to that list. They also talk about spirit and determination. What tosh!
Complain about this postI have been watching cricket with a passion for over thirty years and have seen other examples of England's humiliation. 1974/75 at the hands of Lillee and Thompson, 1976 when Tony Gregg promised to make the West Indians grovel! We brought in Colin Cowdrey for the aussies and then Brian Close for the windies.
This display is all the more embarrassing given our dominance in 2005. That wasn't a fluke, we played better than the Aussies. We have now plumbed the depths with real damage done to both established/proven players and the youth that has been intrduced into the side.
At a time like this the first thing we need is an inspirational leader like Mike Brearley. Vaughan is probably the best on offer at this time and a fit Simon Jones will add class.
Over and above that all the team need to do is to regain the form that they are all capable of. I do feel that a change in coach is also needed, Fletcher is tarnished and has lost credibility.
Complain about this postSportsmen representing their country should be no less than totally focused on the task, so why the WAGs in tow? Silly ear adornments do not exactly enhance the performances either. Get real and get an English manager.
Complain about this postThoroughly abject performance again and probably expected.
Complain about this postThe central contracts have identified a 'comfort zone' mentality in English Cricket where a once required work ethic has been ousted into the easily forgotten past.
Players should earn the right to play for their Country and the evil that is money at the highest level be handled in a more sensible way. The Hunger has gone in all of our top level sport and the public will not stand too much more of it in having to pay inflated prices to watch the dross that is being served up.
I do not feel sorry for any of them - they are professional bodies being paid excessively for a product that is flawed.
I have been reading on this forum over the course of the first three test matches everyone's opinion of why England have been losing to Australia. I think the time has now come to acknowledge that Australia are just too good.
The following reasons for England losing no longer hold water as far as I'm concerned:
1. Not enough preparation (England have had the warm up games plus THREE test matches and have still lost by an innings and 99 runs).
2. Replace Giles with Panesar (this has happened in the last two tests and England has lost both).
3. Replace Anderson with Mahmood (ditto).
4. Replace Jones with Read (happened in 4th test and still lost by an innings).
5. Move Pietersen up the order to bat at four (happened in 2nd innings and he was bowled for one).
6. Rudi Koetzen has a vendetta against England (his umpiring has been bad for both sides - Collingwood should have been out LBW twice in the first innings and Cook once in the second. The main difference is that the Australian batsmen have gone on to make England pay for Koetzen's mistakes where the Englishmen haven't.)
There are other suggestions made on this forum that haven't yet been adopted (drop Freddie as captain, drop a bowler and pick an extra batsman so Freddie can bat at seven etc.). If they turn out to be as effective as the suggestions above, Australia will win by an innings and 200 runs in Sydney.
England have simply been outclassed by the Australians.
Complain about this postEveryone should calm down. I would back us against any other team. We are not rated second in the World for nothing. We need to be fair and not take our disappointment out on the team. The Australians had their first choice team out; we had several of our best players absent or not fully fit. The Australians are significantly better than all other teams. They were at home and our players did not have time to be fully prepared.
The commentators constantly adjust their views to the developing situation. I heard Boycott savagely ridiculing Symmond's before he got 150. I heard them all say Parnesar would get more wickets than Giles. Did he?
The Aussies are better than us. I can live with that, without lashing out at the players.
Complain about this postYep, we've been well beaten but it doesn't mean we're a crap team! Hopefully this will be a wakeup call for us and we'll come back a better, stronger team.
Hats off to the Aussies though, they've been pretty out of this world.
Complain about this postOne thing that does really annoy me is all these ex-players coming out of the woodwork sounding off giving their crap opinions. Nasser, Atherton, did you ever win the Ashes? Boycott has always disliked Fletcher and is using the loss of the Ashes as a reason to get rid of him. Can I remind him to look at the state of English cricket before he took over!
The only people I'd listen to are the ex Aussie players who seem to talk with common sense and realism.
Complain about this postAt 10:09 AM on 28 Dec 2006, Dicko555 wrote:
"Strauss is still sulking over not getting the captaincy, Bell and Collingwood found out at the highest level, time for a real think re Flintoff, time to play him as a specialist bowler he is clearly not an all rounder get shot of Harmison."
People like you shouldn't be allowed to watch sport, you just ruin for the rest of us.
I'd love to know what you were saying after the England Ashes win.
Take you're reactionary rubbish and go and sit in the corner with a pile of tabloids, and leave the rest of us to have a proper grown up discussion.
Complain about this postHOW PEOPLE CHANGE!!!
Yes, England have been poor and yes some of the planning has not been up to standard of Test match cricket, but lets really look at the facts.
Australia have been planning for this since Sept 2005, they have got everybody on top form and playing for a reason. They have been fantastic. FULL STOP.
This is probably the last Ashes for Langer, Hayden, Gillie, as well as the legends. The want to end on a high. They are playing at home and playing for pride.
These boys have been told that they are the greatest Aus team ever and yet they lost the Ashes to an inexperienced English team last time.
WHAT IS NEEDED MORE TO MOTIVATE YOU?
As for England.
Firstly our prep was poor, no Vaughan (not just as capt, but No 3 and his experience in Aus), no S Jones, and the lack of matches for Anderson and Giles, not great.
People have been having a go at Cook. He is 22, has scored 4 centuries before the age of 22 and averages 47 in his first year of Test cricket. And people say he needs to be dropped?? Atherton, Stewart, Hussain, Gower, Gatting, Gooch didn't start as well as this.
Strauss has also been briliant recently. He is only average around 40 this year, still more than most of the above averaged in their career.
As for Bell, he is not a Test number 3, but still a class performer. Collingwood is a fighter whom has done well on occassions this series and the last year.
Yes Flintoff should not be 6, but 7, and Read & Jones are not good enough for test cricket.
As for Harmy, well, the last two tests he has been getting better and better. You watch the games. Bit late, but he is still England's number one strike bowler.
Lets give Aus full marks, they have been better than us. Teams often have gone to Aus and lost series with large scorelines. This team had things to prove. We need to look at it all in prespective, we are still a good test team, we have shown this against India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka over the last 12 months. They all have quality players.
This Aus team is just superb!!
Complain about this postAs bad as the batting has been in this Test I still put the England bowling as the biggest reason this test series was lost. I said to my old man before a ball was bowled in this series that England would be unable to bowl Australia out cheaply in 2 consecutive innings and I have been proven right in every test. In Flintoff and Harmison they had 2 players who had to try and bowl themselves back into form after long injury lay offs and with Hoggard generally better suited to English conditions there was never any chance of England retaining the Ashes. Coupled with this was the stupid decision to take Ashley Giles and James Anderson and then fail to play Panesar and Mahmood. The most annoying thing for me was listening to the Sky commentary team (Ward, Gower, Botham and Hussain) in the Summer talk up England's chances and advocating the selection of the likes of Giles and Trescothick only to now jump on the band wagon on criticism. Particularly in Botham's case, having read the Daily Mirror in recent weeks, he seems to have a short memory because he is now going on about the sorry state of the English team and poor selection etc a complete contrast on his comments 3 or 4 months ago. Once a great player but I think the guy hasn't really got a clue when it comes to commentary and analysis.
Complain about this postIt's got to the stage where I dread waking up in the morning.
No doubt Australia are a champion team but i was convinced we would have a chance - how can a side play worse than the sum of it's parts?
England might not have the players to be the best in the world but surely we can do better than this?
Complain about this postThe issue would appear to be that of off-the-field attractions.
Our football team continue to under perform, our rugby team have done the same since winning the RWC in 2003 and now as our cricketers become more of a marketing asset (especially since the ashes win in 2005) the problem to me is all too apparent.
The guys are probably more interested in what pays them most than actually what they do for a living. The salaries theses guys get in comparison to what some of them get for wearing such and such a watch, or driving such and such a car are far less - so where will their interest be?
They do not appear hungry to wear the shirt or play the game to win. They get paid whatever the result and know that when they get back there are still the advertising bods wanting to speak to them. Even bad press is good for the marketing guys.
Complain about this postThe biggest problem for England has been the bowling. The fast(ish) bowlers are battling to get 3-4 balls an over in the right areas to give the batsmen something to think about - Saj Mahmood was struggling to get more than about 1 decent ball an over. Contrast this with Australia's bowlers, who are consistently asking questions of the batsmen 5-6 balls an over (maybe Lee slightly less so, but he's still as good as England's best). If England's batsmen had to play their bowling attack, they'd perform like champions too. (Just like Australia's batting would come back to the field somewhat if they had to face our bowling).
Complain about this postI was so looking forward to seeing Australia avenge last years ashes by rubbing Englands collective noses in a 5 - 0 drubbing, then laying the boot in.
But honestly, there is no need - you guys have done that with far more vitriol than I ever could. In fact I'm actually a bit embarrassed by it all and now find myself feeling sorry for England and truly hoping for a much improved performance next test.
In Cook, Strauss, Bell, Collingwood and Pietersen there is a class batting line up. No questioning Flintoff's credentials as a world class all-rounder and in Harmison and Hoggard there is some real sting and heart. I wouldn't be slitting my wrists just yet if I were an England supporter - they are capable of some fine deeds as demonstrated by 2005. Unfortunately for them this tour has not been their finest hour.
So perhaps it is time to cut the guys some slack - they are trying their hardest and have simply been demolished by a very very fine team bent on putting right what they did wrong last year. You simply cannot judge Englands performance by this series alone. I am convinced that better days lie ahead.
Complain about this postIf you England fans think things are embarassing now ... wait til the ODIs!!
Complain about this postHow can such talented players fold so easily?
Whilst you can sack the manager, change the captain and the selectors at the end of the day it comes back to the players.
Two so far come out with credit, both of whom should have played from the beginning. They are Pannesar and Reid.
Collingwood had one great innings and Strauss made a decent start more often than not but the others.....no commitment!
Complain about this postHi,
Complain about this postLike i said earlier....do not play Paneshar....Well here we go!!!!! My ,my ....A whitewasg looms ahead.
It is a disappointing series - from any supporters point of view. To some extent I agree with the general opinions that have been given in the various forums on the BBC website - yes England stand a better chance in the next series for successful outcome - I think we need to qualify this though:
1. England need to be able to work as a team. At the moment, if you were to compare the English to the Aussie team framework I would suggest that you'd see evidence of a general lack of complete and utter loyalty to each other;
2. Consistency - the English side is really being let down by their lack of consistency - both bowling and at the crease. This can only come with practice.
3. Match fitness - it seems fairly clear that the English team just does not have enough practice playing actual tests. I remember hearing at the start of all of this that during the time from the last ashes series Australia had played 15 tests and England 5? If I'm correct in this then I would suggest that it is no surprise that England start falling apart after a couple days of play. It is essential that they regularly get first class match experience together as often as possible.
4. Young talent - there needs to be further development of young talent in this country. To the casual observer it would seem to me that there is a generation that has no particular interest in the sport. This is to do with Television rights (see below) but I'd also suggest that there is not sufficient support at the right time for young players.
5. Television rights - lay a great deal of the blame on the selling of televising rights to Sky. How on earth can the children of this country watch international cricket, learn about the game and fall in love with it if it is only available to those sufficiently well off to have Sky television, those who can afford tickets, or those who are old enough to go into pubs. I can clearly remember when I fell in love with the game - I was 13, home on school holidays and watched Shane Warne take his first hattrick on one of the two free to air channels we had in the country. To remove this ability to watch cricket is ludicrous.
Anyway, enough of my ideas on the future of English cricket. I would dearly love a full competition in 2009 (as long as the Aussies win of course!) but I'm afraid that without putting the proper time and effort into it England just won't be at the right level.
Complain about this postYou English often talk of the demise of Australian cricket when our current players talk of retirement.
You have no idea.
There are two and three player lining up for each position. These blokes have been playing in our domestic series for five and six years and have plenty of experience Look at Hussey, Clarke and Simons all relative new comers.
I repeat and emphasise… you have no idea.
Complain about this postAs a Pom living in Victoria (who was at the G today), I'd like to say congratulations to Australia. They have deserved their fine victories, and they and the crowds have done it with good humour and spirit.
But all is not lost. England have a fine young team, facing the swansong of a freakish set of Australian players. McGrath, Langer, Gilchrist, Warne and Hayden will all soon be gone. Lee, as much as I enjoy his sportsmanship and pace is past it. S Clarke is 31, Ponting 32, Hussey the wrong side of 30.
The Aussies will tell you, as they tell me that their 2ndXI will beat our first, but I see no evidence of it.
The era of greatness is passing, just as it did for the West Indies. Let's enjoy them for what they are right now - great entertainers, great cricketers, the worlds best. But let's also look forward to a new era, when Australia will not have its command several of the worlds best ever players.
Complain about this postwhen england come back back from this 5-0 thrashing, i belive they should be given an open top bus parade through london, but this time lets throw rotten fruites at them. they have gone thier to represent us, represent england, they get payed well for doing something they enjoy, and they seem to be on one big holiday.
Complain about this postIve had faith all winter even after adelaide, but after todays performance, it makes feel downright sick watch england crumble under a little bit of pressure. Get it sorted ECB, get rid of fletcher, remove his citizenship, so he can no longer have influence over the cricket in england!!!!!!
Well, what a difference from last year. Being an Aussie all I got for the whole of the 2005 summer was smarmy remarks from all the cricket "experts" that had suddenly sprung up from somewhere.
This year, whenever I mention cricket, it seems that all those experts have suddenly remembered they don't actually know anything about cricket or that Engalnd are playing, and I use the term loosely, in Australia at the moment. Funny old world.
Complain about this postWell done Australia and roll on a Sydney victory to make it 5 - 0.
Despite the defeat of Pakistan in the summer I've always felt this team turned off mentally the day after the Ashes win at the Oval when they drunkedly paraded around London. This, together with the ridiculous award of OBEs to each member of the squad, gave the team a air of arrogance. They stopped working as a unit and individually since then. Basically they have gone soft.
Complain about this postIt was a mistake to make Flintoff captain (it really should have been Strauss) but I doubt whether it would have made a difference. Harmison is flakey, Pieterson aloof and Bell and Collingwood still too inconsistent. Bad selection decisions were made in terms of Geraint Jones and Ashley Giles - decisions that smacked of 'matey-ness' rather than cold cricket decisions. From a performance point of view, only Pieterson and Hoggard can come out of the series with their heads held high although Alastair Cook will be all the better for his experience.
I think Flintoff and co should hold their heads in shame in that they didn't compete as well as they should have done. Australia were the better team on paper and out in the middle but England rolled over and died I'm afraid.
I just hope that Michael Vaughan comes back as soon as possible and is 100% fit. Duncan Fletcher should stay on but a big team building exercise is now needed to get this team back on course. Panesar, Broad and James Foster must be brought in for the summer. Strauss, Cook, Bell, Pieterson, Collingwood and even Flintoof do not deserve to have cast iron places anymore.
Its really up to the team and the backroom staff to learn from this pitiful experience. They have let the whole country down.....
I think the captaincy of Andrew Flintoff has certainly contributed to England's downfall. It's been both his leadership and lack of ideas when Australia's had control of the game that is worrying. His public interviews after each test have had a great sense of denial about them or should I say false belief in the hype that England was better than it actually was. Instead of being honest and saying it as it is and finding ways of rallying against the Aussies, all we here is more patronising tripe about how wonderful the 'lads' have been in giving their all. All's not gloom and doom for Freddie though. If at the end of a 5-0 whitewash he's looking for a new career, all that rehearsed rhetoric augurs well for a life in politics.
Complain about this postWhat I find most depressing is that the Aussies aren't that much better than they were, just more focused.
At the same time, we are just a pale shadow of 15 months ago and seem to have no self-belief.
Sack the coach, I say. In the last year he has managed to undo almost all the good work he did in the previous 6.
Complain about this postJust as a little mental excersise, try for a moment imagining the scores and results were reversed. That England had fought off the pressure and stress exerted upon them by the 'worlds best team'. That Australia buckled under intense English pressure from being 5 wickets down and the English press home their advantage relentlessly. How might the expert analysis and criticisms or praise of the players or boasting rights sound in reverse?
Ah, it's a laugh isn't it, this cricket game? There is a lot to be said for parallel universes.
Complain about this postA rather ghastly english affair! There has to be a fundemental change to British sport. Nothing less than total comutment, aggression and passion is needed. Until the British stop using the phrase 'it's not the winning but the taking part that counts' we are destined for failure. You would never hear an Australian or American using that phrase. They know only about winning..coming second does not enter their mind! The english cricket team have to have that total hunger to win.
Complain about this postTo a familiar tune:
Amazing days to watch the Poms
Complain about this postfall down to Aussies' skill;
it only took three days this time,
and now the score's four nil.
Folks,
at the end of the day you have to take your hat of to the Aussies for the way we have played, but everytime we have got close to getting back into the games, we have had a couple of dodgy umpiring decisions....and also Flintoff as good a player as he is, has shown that he is not a captain, much like Botham was I am afraid. both brill players, but let them just play their games.
Complain about this postEngland will boucne back after this as we still have world class players, but in Australia you need everyone 'pulling' together.
Enjoy those ashes, Aussies, we'll have them back in 2009
cheers
Austrailia have not looked unbeatable throughout the series (apart from brisbane) and although the ozzys have played well its engalnd who have lost this series through
structural problems at the top...this is the first test were there best team (on paper) has played,
poor preperation at every level opening batsman and bowlers have been particularly poor
what has kevin shine been doing with harmison etc
the fact that there are only a few players in the team who want to win a match let olane a series: flintoff, peiterson and possibly hoggard
england dont care as much as ponting thats why theve lost so badly and crumbled under presure when last year they reveled in it
Complain about this postThere is no need to panic. It has been completely demoralising, but chucking everything out won't solve anything. Fletcher should be given a chance to turn things around, but the back-room set-up, from the selectors on down needs looking at.
Complain about this postFlintoff can't really carry on as captain, in hindsight it was a mistake to make the heart of the team its head. His emotions often rub off on the team and this has been magnified since being captain, and when he is positive and full of fight its a good thing, but when he's depressed, scared, concerned this also filters down to the team. Again in hindsight the signs were there in Nagpur when England nearly threw away a draw after pressing the panic button. We need someone (Strauss) more level headed.
I think picking a team now for the next series is silly (never mind Ashes 2009!!), players need to go back, play county cricket and they need to look at it later on. I do think it might be time to give Harmisson a break though if he can't get his focus back with Durham.
No point Giles "retiring", who'd be back-up to Monty?
I am an expat Brit living & working in the US. I have a number of Australian work colleagues so this series has been doubly embarrasing.
It has been a long time since I have witnessed such a gutless display by any English sports team! This is a bunch of sulking kids, not a cohesive, motivated & professional team. A waste of the money to get them there.
Good on ya Aussies - you out played them & showed the attitude that 'professional' players should have!
Complain about this postSorry Freddie time to go. You are the leader and you carry the can. Four times we've heard the same speech about how your team is up for it etc. Four times you've lost and this time is the most humiliating of all. Bring back Vaughan!!!! I must say though how will Australia win when Warne retires? I can't see them running through sides as easily at all without the great man.
Complain about this postThe English players don't seem to understand, play with pride is one thing. The Aussies do this as a metter of pride. Play with intent!
Play with pride is to say I have the skill and talent but it does not mean I have to show it. Play with intent means to get everything you can out of you skill and your talent and play with pride.
Do it as an individual, then do it as a team!.
I was at the MCG today, and even the English supporters were betting on what time today the match would finish. The English players are not giving their own supports PRIDE.
Complain about this postHats off to the Aussies - they didn't sit back and accept 2005 as the beginning of the decline; they did what all good teams do - made changes, took our bowling coach and accepted nothing less than a focus on winning in 2006/7. They deserve our praise.
Problem is that this was almost exactly the opposite of what England seemed to do as, with so much of our sport (Rugby, Football...) we sat back and enjoyed old glories.
Winning is great but the next game is the most important thing. We have to constantly look forward and this probably means some hard choices from where we are now.
And a message to the England team. Even if there is dissent in the camp we, the supporters don't care. You represent the country and you need, for once on this tour, give an appearance of caring. Your supoprt here remains massive but show us, and the Australians, some respect by trying.
Complain about this postDear Australia,
Complain about this postThank you for exemplifying the attitude needed to win. Until we can emulate that the Ashes will remain yours, apart perhaps from a once in a generation reverse like 2005. The Ashes are once again where they belong. Congratulations.
warm regards,
England.
Well I'm still proud of the team.
Sure they have been comprehensively beaten but there have been times where they have had Australia in slightly ropey situations and the Aussies just have that bloody mindedness to turn the game around. It is this bloody mindedness that England have lacked.
England needed to play to their best to have a chance but have fallen short and the Aussies have played to the best of their abilities, playing fantastic cricket and exerting so much pressure on England that they have just crumbled.
However, many of these players have given me enormous joy in the last few years and it really annoys me that people throw the word 'disgrace' and 'shame' around. They ARE still trying and it must be unbelievably disheartening for them. they are no disgrace to our country at all. they lose with honour and they are a fantastic team.
Why can't people just say bad luck and get behind them and they can show us why they are the number 2 team in the world in the tests in the summer?
Complain about this postRe: "I know who i would rather be....."
Matthew Howes
If you didn't want to come play ball you should've stayed home.
"although we are better at Art, Literature, Music, Business, Acting Science, building a non racist multicultural society,"
Interesting points to note:
the highest number of migrants to enter Australia are from the UK.
The English enjoy a whine so much we sell more wine to you than the US.
I've worked in Hackney and reckon our social issues aren't nearly as entrenched as some of the issues facing the Mother country.
Acting Hugh Grant vs Hugh Jackman - enough said.
Science you're right, who invented the refrigerator? Ohh that was a colonial too.
The old world is dead. S
top kidding yourself, you wanted to kick our butts and we were the better side.
PS Ohh and didn't the Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, Indians and the Yanks save your asses in a couple of wars?
Complain about this post"All we ask of Andrew Flintoff's men in Sydney is that they play with every ounce of pride, purpose, commitment and consistency that has been lacking thus far."
Surely we should be asking this of them in every game, not just one useless dead rubber match at the end of yet another hopeless Australian tour
Complain about this postAs a supporter of English cricket for a long time I must say 'Congratulations Australia' on showing us what it is to be a champion side. They have thrashed everyone since losing the Ashes in sept '05 during which time we have gone backwards.
Part of me would like us to take another hiding next week just incase the debacle of this tour so far has not hurt enough.
I checked the stats from '05 and this tour and our average score this year is 275 against 318 for '05 which whilst worse is not disastrous - for that you have to look at the Aussie stats 315 in '05 against 546 this time.
I agree you should not pick a 5th bowler for the sake of it but to my mind discussing whether Joyce should play and Freddie bat at 7 is almost an irrelevant point. No team will ever win test matches if the opposition are scoring 550 when they bat.
Our bowling has been terrible, you only have to look at the areas the bowlers are pitching the ball to illustrate the difference in quality/form. Mcgrath and Clark bowl in the same area 23/24 balls unlike Harmison and Mahmood who go for 23 runs from 24 balls.
However, lets not sack everyone give them a chance to rebuild their reputations as they are generally good test players. Please though change Captain and make Harmison bowl more.
Finally well done again to Australia and farewell to Warne and Mcgrath - the ultimate competitors!
Complain about this postUntil we beat England in England it's 1 all. Without our Fab 5, I think we're in trouble.
Complain about this postJust like to point out that at 12.30 this morning, as Australia's innings ended, I predicted England to lose by an innings and 100 runs. OK, I was one run out. Anyone looking for predictions for Sydney?
Complain about this postHow many times did you hear Ponting go out of his way to say how good England were last year? Not many - granted he mentioned it, but only second to how his men would come back.
Fact is, Australia have gritted their teeth and got stuck in and when they have, we have shit ourselves (sorry, been frightened to death!). Every time they have been under pressure, they have come back harder and meaner. Every time we have been under pressure, we have been like rabbits in the headlights and capitulated.
Our team is good, our problem is that we're mentally weak. Freddie is the greatest cricketer in the world, bar none, but he's no captain. Deja vu beefy 1981 - only beefy had the sense to resign the captaincy and concentrate on doing what he was best at! Michael Vaughan has a streak of something in him, if you could bottle it, you'd make millions - he has all the right ideas and more importantly, he keeps the men together, chins up when the chips are down, etc.
How we come back from this depends hugely on Vaughan's fitness.
Come on lads, chests out, heads up, let's finish on a high by showing them what we can really do!
Complain about this postBring back captaincy in Michael Vaughan's style, the best player does not necessarily mean they will be the best in that role. England should have played more matches before the Ashes series and used better selection of bowlers and batsmen.
Complain about this post1. Andrew Flintoff cannot be expected to remain captain for the final test. Either give it back to Andrew Strauss, less likely, Michael Vaughan.
2. Kevin Pietersen may be the 3rd best batsman at the moment, but he has got there by being selfish, leaving his tailenders exposed and preserving his average by remaining 'not out'. He is NOT English or Welsh and as a result has little loyaly to the team, only himself, he is arrogant, demanding to bat where he wants to, not where the team needs him. He needs to be brought down a rung or two.
3. England now need to look forward, get rid of dead wood, retire off the past-it victorious squad members of 2005, and start a fresh!
Complain about this postI agree the performance has been woeful and dissapointing.
However there are a few things that need to be sorted out:
1. how anyone can critisice alistair cook is beyond my belief. He comes in at the last minute for trescothick who isnt up for the job, and when he gets into an innings (past 20)normally makes a good score.
2. Never listen to geoffrey boycott. The mans an idiot. Hes so pessimistic about everything and reverses everything he says when he realises hes wrong.
3. will everyone stop criticising bell and collingwood. When we needed runs in the second test, who was there? Bell got a hundred and colly got a double century. If you are going to criticise collingwood and bell then tell me who's better for the job to take over?
4. I agree with most people that flintoff is not a good captain, and should bat at 7 or 8 as he is not a number 6 test batsman.
5. Read? Jones? Foster? Batty? Davies? Prior?
Personally i like the impact chris read has made into the team. No dropped cataches as yet, and was the unbeaten batsman in the seconds innings of the 4th test. id like to see prior but hes more of an opener.
One thing is clear though, we need a wicketkeeper batsman to bat middle order who can get runs!!!
6. When Vaughan comes back who is he going to replace?
Bell? Cook? Strauss? Colly?
7. When Trescothick comes back who is he going to replace?
Cook? Bell? Strauss? Colly?
8. Why on earth is Duncan "no smiles" Fletcher still coach? and why was vaughan in australia with the england team, he should of continued his rehab at home. His influence was a distraction. Why was Troy Cooley let go? If he masterminded the bowling in the success of the 2005 ashes then why didnt we pay him allsorts to stay?
Yet again this proves crap setup. We need to build for the future, and this means opening the selectors eyes to young/mid 20's talent, or indeed replacing the selectors.
Build for the future, upon the strengths of the past, and dont look back on your mishaps.
Answers on a postcard to Australia please.
Complain about this postWhat the English team is missing is some steel, which has quietly evaporated since the departure of Hussain, who required absolute committment from all and above all himself.
I feel the only player in the England team with this character at present is Andrew Strauss and the sooner hie is made Captain the better for all. He himself will without doubt rise to the occassion. Why not try this for the final Test. Anyone in the team who is unhappy about a change like this is would not really have their heart in the right place.
Complain about this postAt 01:07 PM on 28 Dec 2006, Matthew Howes wrote:
OK. Lets get this in to perspective. We lost a Cricket series . The Aussies are good at hitting things with sticks and throwing balls around. Us Brits aren't as good at those things, although we are better at Art, Literature, Music, Business, Acting, Science, building a non racist multicultural society, having men with natural hair colour etc etc etc.
All right, as a typically uncultured Australian, let's see whether I can get this English right. "Lets" should be "let's" and "Us Brits" should be "We Brits," surely. I'm also so pleased to hear that Britain has a non-racist [with a hyphen, Mr Howes] society. I'll remember this next time I head to Brixton. Since et cetera is Latin for "and all the other things," perhaps Mr Howes would care to enumerate what exactly are all these other things, and all the other things, and all the other things which the superior Brits have in superabundance.
Complain about this postDozens of books and hundreds of articles were written about last year's Ashes triumph, but surely none of them would be as fascinating as a book analysing this current series. As well as some poor cricket on England's part, there appear to be so many factors that have influenced the outcome of this series; Injuries, Tresco, team selections, the team selection process, Troy Cooley, preparation, Aussie boot camps, scheduling, WAGs, Read v Jones, Monty, the captaincy, Fletcher's management style, disunity in the England camp, suspect umpiring, the leaked 'Battle Plan', the first ball of the series, the capitulation in Adelaide, strangulation on the second morning in Perth, Aussies 84-5 at the MCG, KP at four, Warne and McGrath's retirement and probably a load of other factors not apparent to an outsider like me. So get writing Aggers, the book would become a standard text for Sports Management courses for years to come.
But chin up, remember as Lionel Jeffries once sang "From the ashes of disaster, grow the roses of success" - there you go, I've even given you a title!
Complain about this post
Complain about this postEngland's team looked like school boys flogged by their imperialist schoolmastets and sent to rethink their assignments, which can never be resolved. This team is spineless and so uncoordinated, that even the great Shakespeare could not find the right poetic verses to lift their self-esteem. Flintoff is all words and no performance, in fact all of them.
This series has definitely seperated the men from the "lads"!!
Complain about this postNot only has Flintoff demonstrated poor captaincy but his whole attitude to facing Australia was poor. He announced himself to be available to captain England on the back of poor fitness (read dodgy ankle) and a whole lot of time out of the game. His bowling was at best average and he did not seem to think anyone else in the side was capable of bowling. He helped pick the wrong team. And in the Perth test he let loose on the last day when he should have been applying the "over my dead body" commitment all day long to save the test. Flintoff was the first man in the England team to have given up the series. The rest just followed.
I think this BBC correspondent writes for people who dont know cricket much as his comments do not have any analysis. A matter-of-factly piece of mostly no use. Its better to take a look at bbc's main story. If this column is still popular, it tells me a lot of about the level of detail English people are ready go into and no wonder you find English team in such an abyss. I think it has also a lot to do with ignorant English press that had hyped it all up. In the end it was a anti-climax for sports followers.
Complain about this postspineless, clueless and without brain. I'm talking about the ECB who through their careless scheduling made a hard task impossible. Perhaps when the Aussies visit in 2009 we will allow them a warm up game against a very minor league side.
Complain about this postBy the way well done Australia a thoroughly professional job!!
Re: "I know who i would rather be....."
Matthew Howes
If you didn't want to come play ball you should've stayed home.
"although we are better at Art, Literature, Music, Business, Acting Science, building a non racist multicultural society,"
Interesting points to note:
the highest number of migrants to enter Australia are from the UK.
The English enjoy a whine so much we sell more wine to you than the US.
I've worked in Hackney and reckon our social issues aren't nearly as entrenched as some of the issues facing the Mother country.
Acting Hugh Grant vs Hugh Jackman - enough said.
Science you're right, who invented the refrigerator? Ohh that was a colonial too.
The old world is dead.
Complain about this postStop kidding yourself, you wanted to kick our butts and we were the better side.
i cant see no reason to make any excuses.
we were simply outplayed by australia, and beaten by a far greater team, it is a massive dissapointment as i thought we were at least going to put up a fight only 2 batsman (colly and KP) have a respectable average and the bowlers have underperformed. well done australia, your too good this time, see you in england in 2009. you are welcome to come over, see you all then....
Complain about this postWhy is anyone surprised. A weak team, hyped to the gills by the media, has been soundly beaten.
Complain about this postThe lack of Trescothick, Vaughan, Simon Jones, and the serious injuries to Flintoff and Giles, were glossed over by the barmy press, who will now fall on the team for their failure.
Unfair, they had little chance, and none when they declared in their first innings at Adelaide.
Better luck next time. The pressure will then be on a much changed Australian team.
The fact is last series was won by England because they gave it their all and Australia were careless and expected merely to turn up. We had better talent but a lack of application let us down then. We realised this and were livid. Now not only are we more talented but we were also better prepared.
There are many fundamental problems with your side.
1st Playing five bowlers is compromising your already flimsy batting depth. Flintoff, your number 6, has a career average in the low 30's. Not nearly good enough, especially when you have no keeper-batsmen.
2nd playing 5 bowlers often means that one of them is thoroughly under used. Anderson and mahmood have bowled far less overs then your other bowlers.
Also fast bowlers (apart from the truly great ones) dont mature or gain consistency until at least their mid 20's. This means that bowlers like Mahmood and Anderson are unreliable as they may get some wickets or may go for at least 6 an over. When you are playing high class opposition you can't rely on erratic bowlers.
This also applies for batsmen. Cook and bell are both quite talented both with good techniques but are far too young to be handling the sort of pressure they are under in such an important series and thus they suffer in performance (at least on a consistent level)
Look at Ausralia. The only players in our team who debuted i their early 20's are Ponting, Warne, mcgrath and Clarke. the rest waited until their mid 20's to early 30's and sharpenned their game in domestic cricket to gain experince in order to consistently perform at international level. Of those players mentioned each earlier struggled early on. Warne was poor early on and Clarke was dropped for over a year in order to refine his game as the talent was there but the polish was not. S Clark or Hussey for example would not have survived at international level in their early 20's but toiled hard domestically and are now reaping rewards. Come the next series hopefully your younger players will have matured and gained enough experience to perform consistently (Cook for one has shown he has a good technique and tremendous potential...definately one to watch) at the highest level but having said that who says our young talents like Cosgrove, Marsh, Tait, Cullen and Johnson wont have done the same?
Complain about this postI am at a loss as to what all the English fuss is about. In 2005, England only just won 2 tests and lost one by a mile. This time, they have been comprehensively hammered in all 4 games. The stark reality is that England won in 2005 by playing out of their skins, against a slightly complacent and below-par Australia. Yet, despite this, we had the gross national over-reaction of bus parades, honours, and dates at the Palace and no 10. The Aussies bit the bullet, dug in, prepared hard and were VERY determined, whilst England basked in what any objective observer could see was a false glow.
Complain about this postCricket is the only game I know where the better side rarely, if ever, loses. The natural order of things has simply been restored after last year's blip.
And no, I'm neither Australian nor English
To lose by an innings in three days is a very poor performance indded.Two exceptional batting performances by Symonds and Hayden took the game away from England.What surprised me was the rate at which they scored the runs on what most people say was a good wicket to bowl on. Is there any English batsmen other than an in form Pietersen who could do the same?England have got to consistently score sufficient runs at the same rate in order to have the necessary time to bowl a good side out twice. I think the Aussies have played an exceptionally focused, hard game and well done to them.
Complain about this postMany have written, as Adrian does above, that the Australians "took our bowling coach".
That would be the Tasmanian Troy Cooley, right? The one whose contract was not renewed by England? The one who was perfectly free to return to his own country, and completely at liberty to accept any position with anyone willing (and smart enough) to hire him?
Complain about this postCorrect me if I'm wrong, but despite being the 2nd ranked Test country we've been thrashed by Aus at home more heavily than they beat other countries. So either we're not the 2nd best team, or we bottled it. Opinions welcome.......
IMHO our useless strategy was to pick the boys who won in 2005 despite lack of form or fitness, and hope that they had a "psychological hold" over the Aussies, e.g. Flintoff had the measure of Gilchrist (!!!), Hayden was Hoggard's puppet (????). But we've found that they had the psychology over us........
Complain about this postI’m an Aussie and I can’t help but feel a little sorry for Flintoff. This is an awesome batsman and bowler put into the captaincy and it just is too much for him. This is why he is failing right now. I know that not a single English person I spoke to gave a damm about how Ponting felt last year but the difference is the mental toughness of Ponting and the rest of the Australian team. For all the crap written about Pontings captaining ability one can’t deny that here is a guy that inspires his team and they just keep winning. I do hope the English team can get past this and get that same urge to win as the Aussies have. But perhaps next ashes, pick someone who can handle the job of captain, send them off to a boot camp like our guys did no matter how much they moan and as a team they need to bond a bit more and spend more time together when they play away from home.
Complain about this postwhy not let australia play out their 2nd innings in order to keep the spectators happy!
after all it is just as relevant as playing the fourth and fifth tests.
Complain about this postWhere is Cyril Washbrook when you need him?
Complain about this postengland wallowed in the 2005 ashes win and did little to build on it. the press overhyped the victory and players were awarded an open top tour of the capital (plus OBE's!).australia win and then move on, we didn't.fletcher has served us well, time for him to 'seek a new challenge'.england focus too much on ashes cricket, there are many other challenges.
Complain about this postSeen with hindsight, the worst decision England have made in the present series was not one of the order of batting or even not having a dinner together, but to declare in the Second Test.
At least then we wouldn't be heading for the horror-of-horrors - a whitewash.
Somehow 4-0 with one tied doesn't seem half so bad.
Complain about this postthe players made all the right noises about playing for pride, but have shown by their actions how much they really care.
the scale of this defeat should be a wake up call to the whole of the team.
no pride, no guts, no fight.
talk is cheap, actions speak louder than words
Complain about this postWhatever happened to "...treat those two imposters just the same"? We might have known that after getting totally carried away following the Ashes win last year, and having pocketed their Barbados homes for the future, some of England's players looked as if this was just a jolly in the sun - win or lose they'd "done it all" the previous Ashes series. If they'd kept their feet on the ground, they might have given Australia a match from the start.
Complain about this postMaybe we expected too much of a young team. The Aussies are ruthless at the best of times and this was payback time. The selectors have a lot to answer for this time. No one should have a guaranteed spot in the team regardless of their reputation and past achievements if they are in poor form or returning from an injury. If the likes of Vaughan, Giles or Trescothick just walk in to the side in the near future, then I am afraid we are never going to be able to build a good team. No more favourites please & let us pick the best people for the job and most of all, give them a good run to settle in to the side. Let's look to the future as the present does not make pleasant viewing!!
Complain about this postI do wish England would remember how to play the game they are supposed to love. Ok, they didn't get a few decisions during the Australian first innings but any other side would create more wicket taking opportunities rather than just give up. I cannot believe that five of the team chose to do their own thing during Christmas. For me this sums up the whole attitude of the team. They just don't want to be there. A belated Christmas present for us England fans would be for the team to win in Sydney but I fear that it's too little too late.
Complain about this postI wrote this to a friend in an e-mail message this morning. It says it all.
I despair of England. The sooner they get home the better. A thorough review is vital. Only one team has turned up for this series. It is disgraceful.
John Dennis
Complain about this postOne interesting thread that has come through in this blog is how many Englishmen are hoping that the retirements of Warne, McGrath and several other players will even the odds come the next series. If they assume that is going to get England over the line you should start preparing yourselves for another massacre but this time on home soil.
The domestic competition in Australia has never been stronger and there are a number of players that could easily fill the shoes of the retirees and become stars in their own right. Indeed, it should be a sobering thought that the powers of Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist and McGrath have been in decline of late, and have been a cause of comment and discussion here, and yet we have managed to win so conclusively.
Watch for the likes of Tim Paine, Phil Jaques, Shaun Tait, Mark Cosgrove, Cameron White, Shaun White, Shaun Marsh and Moises Henriques to potentially become household names during the next ashes tour (and all men in their twenties or teens)
The Australian production line of world class cricket talent is alive and well, and England must get its house in order and not depend on any tumultuous decline on our part. After two decades of domination you should know by now it ain’t gonna happen!
Complain about this postThere are so many reasons for the disaster that has become of this series - poor preparation, not picking Monty from the start, the selection of so many unfit players. However the one killer event was Adelaide day 5. After declaring in the first innings with two major centurians the total collapse was a trauma that we were never going to recover from. It was then rather than in Perth where we lost the Ashes.
The future loks pretty grim. We're hopeless in the one-day game so the three way series after the tests will be awful, then it's to the West Indies and the World Cup.....
The test team needs a total transformation. First of all Fletcher has to go, he's been around too long, relies too much on his favourites. The kind of comments he's made about Panesar and Reed in the recent past hardly give them much inspiration now they're in the team. Flintoff for all his strengths is a poor leader, he lacks imagination and tactical nous. If Vaughan comes back he could stand down with some pride, but if not it'll have to go to Strauss and how will Freddie take playing on as a dropped captain?
Central contracts, once the answer now seem part of the problem. Players lack the practice of competitive games in the championship.
There's talk of Warne or Mc.Grath possibly getting involved in the management - bring 'em on. At least they have the spirit and drive that we're so lacking.
As a team we rested on winning the Ashes far too long. When we played India, Sri Lanka and Pakistan all we talked about was the next Ashes series. This was stupid and disrepectful we should only have had concerns about the teams in front of us.
Complain about this postJohn
I'm not the worlds biggest cricket fan but as someone who enjoys Five Live I have to put up with the floor to ceiling coverage offered before each game (when the pundits tell us we're bound to win) during each game (when reality strikes home) and after each game (when the same pundits tell us exactly why it was they never gave England a chance in the first place).
Interestingly I also heard someone state that we should all remember that this is an English AND Welsh effort even though no-one in the BBC knows (or probably cares) how to pronounce Geraint (try spare pint!). But I digress - my point here is that a disproportionate amount of time is spent extolling the virtues of anything remotely English even though there are more successful teams currently in other sports such as rugby but the "England" cricket team is in fact almost "British" - phew!! My chosen sport is motor racing and I well remember British champions such as Stewart and Clark and of course the English champions Hill and Mansell etc. And there I was believing that the BBC (well Five Live) was a "national" radio station . . .
Finally I believe the team, when they return to England (sorry, the UK) should again be given the opportunity to take a drive round London (well that is where most of the players come from and it is of course the oft forgotten correct name of the UK) so that all their fans (well the ones who happen to live in London) can show exactly what they think of their performance.
I shall continue to listen to Five Live and usually do everything I can to ensure that the best radio show is never ever missed - Drive with Jane Garvey and Peter Allen.
Complain about this postThe first thing is to make sure that wives and sweethearts and family's do not accompany the team to play in such an important series.. If the player cannot manage to be separated from their families for a few months then they stay at home...
Complain about this postWatching England get embarrassed like this is brilliant. The media hype surrounding the 2005 Ashes series was utterly nauseating but funnily enough this current series barely gets a 30 second slot on the national news - how strange! Shades of Germany 2006 when Engurland were almost certainties to win the World Cup before their overatted stars were once again sent home early. Happy New Year to Freddie and the Dreamers from everyone in Scotland xxxx
Complain about this postDuncan Fletcher is quoted (or paraphrased) as saying 'if it ain't broke don't fix it'. It's a shame he didn't think that when he replaced the skipper, spinner and wickie of the team that had just beaten Pakistan.
Complain about this postNo team spirit, no fight, no leadership, poor selections, too many overseas players in English game taking places for English/Welsh players. How many English players play in Australia? where do Aussies get expereince and exposure to English players? clearly this is not reciprocated.
We need to get tough and promote our own players, let these overseas players get experience in their own countries and then see how good they are. Victims yet again of the British Benevolent Society!!!!
Complain about this postWell said Aggers. This has been truly painful. How about these suggestions for future England teams ?
Complain about this post1) Only those mentally and physically fully committed to representing their country need apply.
2)Absolutely no W.A.G.S. on tour - its a team thing.
3)No newspaper columns, ghosted or otherwise. They are unreadably dull and unenlightening anyway.
4) Pick the best players, not your mates.
5) I give up, I`ve lost the will to type. All those Aussies gloating about open top bus rides and mbe`s are completely right. Sporting hubris got the better of this not particularly bright bunch of lads, with one or two exceptions.
This series makes a mockery of the awarding of honours to the England side after last year's Ashes victory. Surely sportsmen must show form and consistency over a period of time to merit such honours. A one-off victory however enjoyable at the time is not enough. The English media always goes over the top in victory and then to the opposite extremes in defeat. England are either the "greatest" when winning or the "worst ever" when losing!
Complain about this postLooking at England's performance on the pitch, perhaps it is time for the English selectors to 'outsource' their cricket team to India/Pakistan. It could prove to be their best decision yet!
Complain about this postThe real surprise is that anybody should be remotely surprised at this result, just how ridiculous does the ashes parade and MBEs look now! if anybody had any grain of common sense after last year's victory they would have said we'll celebrate with a few drinks and the satisfaction of a job well done as the Aussies would have done....That should have been the beginning of a journey not the end, instead it only served to provide the aussies with the greatest motivation possible
Complain about this postWhy do we keep looking for excuses.
Complain about this postEngland have simply lost to better opponents.
a) its not purely down to the Captain. Flintoff has played with heart - If England had been winning 4-0, he would have been a genious for helping an underperforming team
b) Its not just the manager. Sure he's not inspirational, sure he doesn't want to take the blame for defeat. But you don't hear from the Australian Manager at all. The Manager has to pull back from his influence on field, and do what he needs to - prepare them to perform on field
c) Its not the leaked report. Most of the points are relatively obvious; however if the bowlers don't bowl to the plan and the field isn't set right (eg Panesar bowling in 2nd innings with defensive field) your planning won't work anyway.
d) Its not the umpiring decisions. There have been a few dodgy ones, particularly to Strauss, but thats cricket and subject to human error.
e) Its not because Australia are doing it for their retiring players.
No its simply that Australia have been focussed, they have filled their injuries with decent replacements (eg Clark, Clarke and Symonds), they have believed they could win the unwinnable (the 2nd test), and have created chances in sessions where it looked like the game was getting away from them.
Don't forget, while England won the Ashes in 2005, it was only just so, given that at least 2 of the games could have gone the other way on another occasion.
Australia were given a wake up last year. England sat back on their laurels, and underperformed for a whole year.
The Australians should look smarmy now - they have won the Ashes, demoralised the English Team, have the English Press looking for answers...
and at the same time, no one except the Barmy Army is trying to give support to the players
I disagree Murphbridge. Firstly, England were outplayed by possibly one of the best Aussie outfits ever. Yes, they have been convincingly beaten, and anyone who has ever played sport competitively knows the role confidence plays in performance. KP is a world class sportsman who has been one of the few performers in the England side, and also has proven to be one of the few with the self-confidence to back himself. I am Aussie and it feels bloody good to have the cricketing world back in equilibrium, but I think the England team has some really good players and it annoys me how as soon as things don't go their way, the public (some, not all) and media are so negative. Despite this, when things go well, they don't seem to have quite so much grace as they like to talk about (not the players themselves)
Complain about this postto the anyone but england brigade - your countries' democratic regimes would no doubt welcome your open and honest remarks - a signed liverpool/man utd top is on its way to the one with the most anti-english comment
Complain about this postInteresting that no Australian was given out LBW in this test, whereas 5 Englishmen were. I wonder what the result might have been if it had been the other way round. Australia wouldn't have even made 150 in their first innings.
Complain about this postcheers to australian team who showed courage and guts.for me it was watching some great characters and also learnt a lot about the meaning of the terms, Team and an Inspirational leader ( no points for guessing who?) .I would like to take this australian win over england as a lesson that success can be acheived with right mxture of vision+tactics+passion+skills+pride.
Complain about this postgreat management lessons can be learnt and ashes 2005/2006 can be a good case study on the subjects of leadership and people management
Englands so called best players are thinking so much about their next book and sponsorship deal that playing cricket is an interferrence. THey should be ashamed of themselves and don't deserve to wear an England shirt !!!
Complain about this postMost of what I wanted to say has been said already.
Complain about this postTo me this test series was part played by an English village team turning up at cricket grounds with upwards of 50 thousand paying spectators who expected to see cricket played at the highest level by dedicated professionals. One side did so.
As with the English rugby XV a few years ago the honours dished out for a one off result to all and sundry shows up our pathetic attitude to the fact that the rest of the world is better at most sports than we think.
Some real discipline is needed in nearly all the sports we tinker with, and those professionals not prepared for it in the future, should find another job.
On the bright side, at least Read made a fist of it at the end, despite all the trouble that Warne gave him. If he's given a fair crack of the whip, I think he'll show that he's a more than adequate batsman as well as England's top 'keeper.
Complain about this postI think the whole tour has been a shambles and sadly it looks like 5-0 is very much on the cards.
Complain about this postOn occasions we have played some good cricket, but Test matches are about playing well for 5 days, not just 1 or 2 sessions. Too often, the bowling has been wayward and real application and concentration have been sadly lacking. Contrast this with Australia, who have consistently dug deep when required, maintained good control and rammed home their advantage with ruthless efficiency.
Whilst Duncan Fletcher deserves criticism for selection errors and a lack of proper planning, the intensity of this has been unjustified. Too many people have short or selective memories. Let's not forget, he took over, when the English cricket team was at its lowest ebb, having just been beaten on home soil, by a modest New Zealand team in 1999 and turned them around into a top Test side. Notable Achievements such as series victories in South Africa, West Indies, Sri Lanka & Pakistan, with the crowning glory of the Ashes triumph, should not be forgotten, amidst all the recriminations.
I hope the harsh lessons from this tour are taken on board and England bounce back to become a better team for it. The pain and humiliation of the past month will then be worth it.
The umpires gifted that game to the Aussies by refusing all the genuine LBWs. If the Aussie middle order had been given out when they should've, they might've been the ones looking dispirited instead of England.
Complain about this postMost of what I wanted to say has been said already.
Complain about this postTo me this test series was part played by an English village team turning up at cricket grounds with upwards of 50 thousand paying spectators who expected to see cricket played at the highest level by dedicated professionals. One side did so.
As with the English rugby XV a few years ago the honours dished out for a one off result to all and sundry shows up our pathetic attitude to the fact that the rest of the world is better at most sports than we think.
Some real discipline is needed in nearly all the sports we tinker with, and those professionals not prepared for it in the future, should find another job.
If any England cricketer is reading this, may I just say that you have shamed and embarrassed yourselves, the fans, and your country.
You were gutless and spineless and if I hear one more "We were very disappointed with our performance but......" comment, I will scream.
In centuries gone by, an International side showing such an apparent lack of stomach for the fight, would have come home, resigned en masse, moved to the Outer Hebrides, and quietly committed suicide.
The shame of failure would have been simply too much to bear.
We can take nothing, absolutely nothing from this performance. I will never go to watch our Test side again.
But if someone can tell me which airport they are arriving back, I can promise an endless supply of rotten eggs.
Complain about this postDisgrace, Flintoff is not captain material. Too many players not caring enough. Family should not have travelled till just prior to Christmas day and then only seen on Christmas day morning. No spirit, No drive, sloppy in lots of areas. Poor shots, bad bowling, lousy catching, no backbone.....an utter disgrace to the fans who travelled. im ashamed to be English.
Complain about this postpathetic is a understatement!
Complain about this postthe team are a disgrace they have no fight no passion morale must be at an all time low.
To lose a test match within 3 days is a joke!
yet all we here from flintoffs post match press conference is same old we tried in patches.
why cant he come out and say we arent good enuf. people are already talking about 2009!
hello wake up forget 2009 the game at the moment is in disarray. players arent good enuf
manegment is a waste of space.
if fletcher was a football manager he would have been sacked long ago. no chairman would sit back and watch his club and money waste away. wake up e c b.
get rid of him and all the rest off the entourage who have gone to austaralia and cant justify there salaries.
a whole change of manegment is required including the captain!
geoff boycott and other ex players speak there mind everything they say is spot on.
they can see the problems well before the team can. 5-0 is definatly on for the aussies then the 1 dayers and the world cup soon after say no more ps if the ashes 05 team got honoures warne should be made prime minister nid i say more!
GREETINGS FROM NORTH INDIA!!!
Full marks for you Damien(#233)! You have the courage of your convictions ... as do all the TEAM members of the Australian Cricket (WORLD) Champions!
To the British Cricketers ... You have been weighed ... you have been measured ... and you've been found wanting!
Just for the "whingers" ... please note:
Australia faced roughly 109 overs with 11 men to post the score 419 runs.
England faced roughly 140 overs with 22 men (11 twice) to post the total of only 320 runs. At that rate they needed virtually another 7 men just to match the Aussie total!
This clearly demonstrates England's inferiority on the cricket field ... in the batting, bowling, fielding and strategy departments.
The British have been comprehensively outplayed at every level ... C'MON AUSSIES ... Lets see the Poms go home with 5-0 (against them) to boast about!
A fitting end to the boastful egos of the British during the 2005 Ashes "aberration".
Oh ... it's great to be an Australian! No wonder the POMS are so envious!
Complain about this postLets first of all face the facts, we are being beaten by a better side, 5 nil is now a reality. What is not acceptable to all England cricket supporters is the way we are being beaten.
Complain about this postWe commenced this Ashes tour unprepared, we fly home from India and then onto Australia, when it would have been better to go straight from India to Australia - more time to aclimatise.
Why burden Andrew Flintoff with the captaincy, he is an excellent allrounder, probably the best in the world, his game has undoubtably been affected by the extra responsibility. Andrew Strauss was doing nicely in the role, thank you, and then for some unknown reason we change things. Chris Read had been recalled behind the stumps, and then for some unknown reason dropped before the series began, what sort of message does this send to the player. We send the same message to Monty Panesar, an attacking bowler who had done no wrong dropped befor the series began, nothing short of disgaceful. The root of the problem is poor management insofar as team selection and preparation is concerned. It is one thing to lose to a better side, but it is another thing to woefully contibute to your own demise.
What is annoying for me is that Fletcher, Flintoff and co wont admit that they didn't prepare for the series well enough and didn't pick the right team not only for the crucial 1st test, but also for the 2nd. We would have lost the series anyway to a better team on home soil, but would have competed better than this.
Complain about this postFlintoff is still saying that England are still trying as hard as they can. If that was the case for this game then something is seriously wrong. I look forward to another series of autobiographies giving the real story on what went wrong. Maybe more interesting than the ones after 2005.
It doesnt surprise me England have lost dismally, as English people we can only stick together in times of war, in Australia there is a sense of patriotism and you can see that in the cricket, the English have no sense of acheivement, in England's favour I must say they did not have the umpire's on their side, which is sad as the Aussie's would have won anyway and the leaking of the the bowling, well again the Aussie's didnt need any help but got it, England got no help at all.
Complain about this postOnce the Australians have trounced England 5-0, they will not bask in their glory, or go on open top buses or go and hobnob it with royalty, they will sit down and start planning out how to retain the ashes when they next tour here.
This is why Australian sport nearly always has the beating of English sport. It is the same with Rugby (too many years wasted polishing the trophy we will give up so easily next year), it happens with football (We are still living off of 1966) and if we are not careful it will happen with cricket and the 2005 ashes.
We won a series in 2005. Let's sit down and figure out how to do it again instead of sitting around saying how great we are. This ashes series has only served to show that we are not. Not even close.
Complain about this postI thought it was a great pity that Strauss was not made Captain for the tour. Flintoff is a gifted all rounder who should have been allowed to focus on his cricketing skills, especially after a summer dogged by injury. It is almost a re-run of the Brearley/Botham situation. Whilst confronting the Aussies is a singular challenge, Strauss demonstrated good leadership qualities this last summer. I doubt that he would have turned out for the coin toss in a singlet!
Complain about this postIts a sorry state indeed. England may have surprised even themselves. Right upto this Melbourne mauling the only consolation England have as a highlight of this Ashes series is their first innings in Adelaide. Counting the positives nobody could ever wish to be this poor.
Complain about this postWhen the next Ashes play in Australia,All the test match should have been played for only three days and should start on friday's.
Complain about this postAs the shock of this defeat seems to be slowly sinking in, my anger towards Eng's performance is now slowly turning to
(a bit) of sympathy
Hadn't aus won 13 of the last 14 tests since the ashes 2005 and also the ICC trophy this year, to show they were head and shoulder above everybody else.
I feel it was our expectations of success in the ashes on oz that were unrealistic rather than what actually happened.
Glenn Mcgrath actually said that they learnt more from their ashes defeat in 2005 than any victory they had ever achieved.
They lost the ashes then because they made wrong selection(katich rather than hussey) and had injuries(mcgrath)- not too dissimilar to what some commentators are saying befell england this time.
How far behind are we from australia?
Not as far as scoreline suggests(believe it or not) but don't have ability to play well under pressure whereas australia know england can't generate sustained pressure and they will eventually prevail.
Mahmood may be good in Windies where pitches flat and responsive to fast bowling, but I'm afraid anywhere else not good enough- too short usually, which doesn't give chance for ball to do anthing- I liked Jon Lewis who appreciated value of line and length or as everybody mentions- ' getting it into the right areas'. Have we forgot caning Sri Lanka gave him in ODI this year.
Panesar has potential though didn't bowl that well in this test- wonder whether beating up gllchrist gave him last test made him reluctant to float the ball up to tempt hayden and symons.
Central contracts need to be looked at again-need to play more county cricket to keep match fit and become more accustomed to handling pressure situations, rather than sponsorship deals they all have time to do- seeing harmy in ad about beer really stuck in my craw.
Do we need to split up one day players from test match players?- think only symons only aus player who plays, up to now,only one day cricket. whereas lewis not in test matches whilst hoggy and cook not in odi.
Complain about this postRest of them used to playing both formats which come in useful ie attacking when necessary in test matches. and consolidating by keeping scoreboard ticking over in oDI,- things england can learn from after these tests.
Lets look towards Sydney.
Complain about this postThe whole thing turned on the catch off Ponting that Giles dropped. From then Australia never looked back and England never looked forward. Until then England were in with a chance to at least salvage their pride from the affair if not the ashes.
I have no sympathy for English (I'm a West Indian). It seems like they play only for the Ashes. All through the home series in 2006, it seemed like the cricketers and commentators could think of nothing else, until of course, the Pakistan series-ending fiasco. But it seems the only thing the players were focused on was a winter trip with their families. What a shame.
Complain about this postI have been an Australian supporter ever since early childhood. Whilst admiring their spirit and sense of purpose in the current Ashes series, I must say that my heart has gone out to the English team through sympathy rather than admiration.
I would like to think of any winner like a gladiator who fought a brave and determined opponent. Somehow, the Ashes has been one sided not because of a lack of talent but because of a weak mindset. Therefore, as an Australian supporter I am happy but reluctant to revel in the victory because it feels like it was men against boys.
As to a whitewash, it does not matter. What does matter is that Engalnd get thirsty again and prepare well for the next time. If they play well and Australia beat them, there will be no one happier than I !!
Complain about this postI don't know when people say Australia will only hold the Ashes till 2009, why because they will not have Warne and McGrath? So what, they already have Clark to replace pigeon and even though Warne will never be replaced they have good young spin bowlers coming up. What you have to relise is that Australia's prime competition "The Pura Cup" is the strongest competition outside test cricket. In England there is to much oneday cricket and it isn't helping the young english players. Australia will be as strong in a few years as they are now and why? Because they have the winning feeling running through the young kids coming through the ranks. Australia has that edge over England. When the going gets tough the english go missing. The aussies aren't a team of champions but a champion team. It's a team game but most English players play as individuals. The Aussies should be proud of their achievement and England should hide in shame and embarrasment.
Complain about this postWe win the Ashes, go out on the p*** for 2 days and think "That's it, we've done it!" and since that it's been rubbish.
Complain about this postMentally we were beaten before we got off the plane. There's no real hunger there. I'm afraid thats true about a lot of British sport right now.
No way should Flintoff stay as captain.
Once again a major flaw in British sports psychology rears it's ugly head - one time achievement followed by arrogance and embarrassment - Ashes, Rugby world cup, football world cup - what is it about the Brits that they a. Can't follow up a win and b. Revel in underachievement.
Complain about this postNobody seems to mention the ozzies' star player in this test and throughout the series - Rudi lookaway Koertzen. Perhaps these gloating diggers ought to look at their batting scores before getting so carried away. All scored bugger all except for fatso and the wild man. Both were stone cold out on low scores, but Rudi doesn't give lbw's against Australia or any other decision. Give them their proper scores and they were out for less than 100. On the other hand, throughout this series useless Rudi can't wait to give Strauss out for simply standing in front of the stumps, whether or not he touches the ball seems irrelevant.
Complain about this postOn such small margins are tests won and lost, and throughout this series the home side have had almost all of the dodgy decisions go their way. England have not played well, and would have struggled to keep the Ashes whatever, but dreadful decisions have allowed hasbeens like Hayden and never will be's like Symonds to prosper, whilst a good player like Andrew Strauss must have been distraught at the decisions he got.
In summary England are not as bad as they look now, and Australia are certainly not as good as the score suggests.
This england team is very young and devoid of arguable 3 of our 4 best players from 2005 (Tresco, vaughan and jones). We picked the wrong captain and flintoff isn't fit. All Australias plans have worked and some cracks have been covered up by how poor we have been e.g mcgrath has been showing his age.
Complain about this postFletcher must be stopped from picking touring parties, not picking panasar from the start was just plain daft.
Can i just also say what on earth is johnny tokyo talking about saying Flintoff has a drink problem??? he does not slur his words and if he likes a drink- so what? Most people do! i could understand if he came out to bat swaying but he takes his game very seriously.
Us poms now need to show some backbone, win this test and then get our heads down and rally together just like the aussies did. If camping out in the peak district is what it takes to create a bit of team spirit, that is what the squad should do. We need the chemistry that creates success like that of the 2005 series.
I don't think is an issue with egos for the majority of the England team. KP is probably the only one that needs to address the celebrity facade he is hiding behind. I have met Flintoff and Hoggard and they were extremely down to earth people. However Fletch and his boys do need to face reality and admit that they have issues instead of making flippant remarks and half heartedly trying to persuade the fans that everything is dandy. Come on guys face reality or face a whitewash!
Complain about this postWhat a load of rubbish - how can the England players, management & coaching staff possibly accept any payment (other than board, lodging & air fares) for this shambles of a performance. My brother (RH bat & slow left arm spin, aged 53) & myself (LH bat & off spin, aged 56) will gladly volunteer our services on that basis. We certainly could not do any worse than the current lot and would certainly look as if we were trying!!!!
Complain about this postTwo things are clearly lacking - team spirit and mental toughness. Our lads just seem to get dazzled by the headlights of Australian aggression - have they no pride and no stomach for the fight? England needs a leader who can instil these 2 missing elements back into the side. Freddie contributes more when he's allowed to get on with his job as an allrounder. He's 'one of the lads' so he was never the right choice for Captain. You can't be one of the lads one day and be making tough decisions about those same lads the next. Bring on Strauss in the absence of Vaughn.
Complain about this postThe England bowling plan is embarrassing simplistic excess baggage - no wonder it was left in a bar. The only mystery is why England are in such a lather to give it credibilty rather than claim it was a not very elaborate spoof. I would expect better from our club for league games - that's the level of expertise we are all paying for.
It's on Cricinfo if anyone hasn't seen it.
Complain about this postI'm ashamed of the performances this year. I have a number of relatives in Australia and I have been emabarrased from day 1 onwards of this series - it's been a shambles. When are going to admit that we have played abysmally instead of stating how brilliantly the Australians have played?
Complain about this postThis Australian team is not as good as they were 2 years ago but in our players' minds they are better - we are a shadow of the team of last year.
My wife intended to buy me a ticket to get to the Sydnet test - thank God she didn't!
If you ask me, the two captains' attitude to leadership is obvious in the way they are turned out for the toss at the start of each match. Ponting's club blazer and cap give the appearance of a true gentleman who loves his team; Flintoff's cheap-looking, ill-fitting jacket with the three lions stuck on the front makes him look more like some soccer-playing thug or reluctant schoolboy. Smarten up Freddie!
Complain about this postSadly once our sportsmen win something they become celebrities and belive their own publicity
They lose sight of what it is that has put them in the fortunate position that they are in.
When the going got tough the Aussies got going, our players ... they went off looking for the next endorsement or other activity that would boost their already over inflated income and egos.
Sad really
Complain about this postHey, Boy Koboko,
Interesting point: 2005 series England lost one test by a mile (Lord's, agreed), then scraped two victories (agreed, more or less). But conveniently you fail to mention the Old Trafford test, where McGrath and Lee valiantly held out until the end of play, excellent effort. But we were potentially one delivery away from a 3rd victory. Then there was the final text at the Oval. Weather aside, your lot would have been chasing 340 or so on a day 4, 5 wicket, and with your form then there were two hopes of that being achieved. So, the records say 2-1, but as you rightly allude, there was much more to it than the scoreline indicates.
Complain about this postPs. Where is Man Koboko?
Had no-one been to Australia before, to understand how much they wanted victory? The tour went really wrong because we were under-prepared for the first test. And now the lack of fight in the last two test looks like surrender.
The total lack of preparation, understanding and commitment is unbelievable and not acceptable.
If this were business, football or politics Fletcher and Flintoff would have all been fired by now.
Complain about this postDuncan, England did not produce too many bowlers with an average of 17 and 42 wickets after 8 tests, so it's funny to see most englishmen like you say Stuart Clark is just a run of the mill bowler . Sure, he used to be. His average was 31 for NSW for the last decade, but he has really come out of nowhere in the last two years, it's not just this series he has dominated, he destroyed South Africa as well and has been red hot for NSW as well. He has swung the ball, got it to cut, seam and reverse swing He's a very clever bowler
Complain about this post. Not a single England bowler has gotten reverse swing, and their bowlers have been clueless without it.
The England Cricket Team are a disgrace.
If that bunch are being paid while out out there, it is a travesty.
There is no pride, no self respect.
MAKE THEM ROW HOME
Complain about this postMatty Howes must have had his post deleted. Fellow Aussies, hope you didn't complain. Funnier to have 'Village' Howes (& that's what the Housing Estate folks called him!) on full display. And I'd like to know what 'Village's extensive contribution to his great culture has been. Matt, you there??
Think he's drowning his sorrows. A comment like that shows he's taking the cricket way too seriously. Which is interesting because one would assume that such a cultural beacon would have had higher priorites in life than to comment on a sports blog.
Leave him alone, guys.
To the rest of the English fans. I've enjoyed reading your comments. Very gracious/un-Matthew like. Cheers.
Complain about this postWell of course the team spirit is low. Just consider this: the players who learned how to win against Pakistan in the summer, and who didn't play in the first test, must have been thinking "so what did we do wrong?" While the players who were brought back in without having to prove their match fitness must have felt they didn't have to prove anything.
Now consider the effects of the first two tests. On the first group, they must have felt so frustrated, to the point that they couldn't perform when they were picked, because they were so wound up: and the second group, who had their self-confidence utterly destroyed by the humiliation and then by being dropped.
Do we seriously think that these players could then summon up any semblance of playing form, given those conditions? It can't be any coincidence that the only players really to show any form over the 4 tests have been those who played in all the tests - Bell, Collingwood, Pietersen, Hoggard.
Complain about this postAs regards players not participating in the Christmas Day rituals, don't forget that we now have a Sikh and a Muslim player in the team - we shouldn't be expecting them to celebrate Christmas in the same way, should we?
from the moment that flintoff sent hoggard out as night watchman in the last test rather than face them down himself, my faith in his ability to organise a uninspired shambolic team vanished along with the ashes
Complain about this postA while ago everyone in the media raved about the so-called central contracts. In my opinion, this only led to complacency. Players, being too sure of their paychecks & their places, have lost the edge. There is no hunger anymore to strive for excellence.
Complain about this postSince cricket teams function like any corporation, players, coaches and selectors should be held accountable. Fletcher should be the first to resign!
Can I add a little unbiased comment on all of the above.
Complain about this post1. England do not play enough (I almost said any) competitive games throughout schooling.
2. Not enough is done to attract youngsters into sports after schoolong.
3. Cricket now competes with TV rugby league in the summer and County gates are low, thus reducing cashflow.
4. Cricket is not the only game at which England are poor. Both rugby codes, athletics, football etc etc.
5. Australia won the Ashes fair and square but that does not make them a great team. 1948 comes to mind but there have been others.
6. I would love to have seen Warne bowl against really good batsmen, WI, English and indeed Australian. Bradman and Hobbs would not have been mesmerised.
7. If the PM of Australia recommends MBEs for his team, his Queen will surely provide, for she is Queen of many Countries besides those in the UK (perhaps Scotland excepted, sorry tongue in cheek).
8. Finally, may I remind all, N and S hemisphere, that sport is a game and apart from entertainment provides nothing to the common good. Yes, cheer on your team but do not brag or belittle your oponents for tomorrow it may be your turn to eat humble pie.
Having to continue playing when the ashes have already been lost seems pointless. Imagine Roger Federer thrashing Andy Roddick 3-0 in the wimbledon final, and then Roddick still having to play the remaining two sets, to salvage some pride. I'm not surprised they're not playing with any spirit in Australia.
Complain about this postIt's simple: England are crap. Australia are brilliant and deserve to win 5-0.
Complain about this postWhat is the best England cricket team? It appears that England have a special player in Michael Vaughan and needs to be fit and play as captain. Freddy is an exceptional cricketer but lacks leadership qualities. I think that we need another opening batsman, don't let's forget that Trescothick let the side down, I hope he recovers soon. There is the basis of a great England side with Strauss, Bell, Pieterson all top quality players. We need Vaughan back and quickly.
The tour has been a tremendous let down, I don't bother getting up to listen to it anymore- already lost £10 to an Aussie.
Complain about this postI am only a fair weather cricket fan. My first love....to play, is golf..... and I prefer football to watch.
However, like many millions of Brits, I was persuaded by the media that the Ashes would be a great evenly matched contest. How wrong they were, how disillusioned we viewers have been.
Not to put too fine a point on it, we were rubbish. It appeared to me we were badly coached and the leadership on the field did not inspire.
If the English cricketing authorities , want to recapture the following they had, some serious head scratching is called for.
I admire Freddie but he should not be captain in my opinion. To me Strauss would do a better job. Seemed to me, he performed as well as anybody and got some very dodgy umpiring decisions against him.
Here's hoping but it may take some time!!!
Complain about this postFantastic - no team discipline, wives and girlfriends adding to the distractions, poor security of confidential information - and the captain telling us that everyone is committed to winning the game. The only thing they appear committed to is enjoying Christmas down-under.
There is something fundamentally rotten about this team and it must be weeded out.
When is someone going to take control of the players and convince them that being a 'tourist' does not mean being on holiday? Wives and girlfriends should only be allowed to join the team after the series is at least drawn.
I do not want to see England cricketers on the cover of 'Hello' magazine. I want to see them on the back page of the paper under headlines like 'Australia Thrashed again'. They should shelve the celebrity status until they have somthing to celebrate.
Complain about this postwell at least 1 person can hold there head held high leaving the m.c.g!
Complain about this postnone other than " monty beard of the year panesar"
wat a great acheivement monty! lets hope you can retain it next year.
i hear the aussies are already planning to steal your crown by bringing back
"perv hughes"
Instant Karma. The whole country got behind the team last summer then got sold out to the highest bidder.
Complain about this postI am in Australia for the last two tests. Yes, the Barmy Army sing, yes we support, yes we keep our chins up, but what on earth do the England players think when they make some feeble effort to acknowledge us at the end of the day. I have spent 3 grand at least to come out here, and I feel like i may as well be back at my desk counting corporate paperclips. Thats how annoyed I am. One wave, we only want one wave. How hard can it be for an English cricketer to walk an extra 50 yards and make us feel that our pointless efforts of cheering were actually worth it???
Complain about this postEngland have become a figure of fun of this tour and the Melbourne test just furthers this belief. Fletcher has to resign and the quicker Michael Vaughan is back the better.
Harmony needs to be restored and a sense of team spirit is sadly lacking and the only way to do that is for each of the players to stand up and be counted and admit their failings.
I fear that the one dayers will rub further salt into the wounds.
Complain about this postI don't think Freddie had brought together the team the way Vaughan did. In fact, I really do believe Straussy would have done a much better job at leading the troops, and let Freddie focus on his batting and bowling. Too much was put on his shoulders, and he was always too defensive in his leadership.
I feel for the guy -- He seems like such a nice guy, but, definetely no more captaincy for him.
Complain about this postI am afraid fear of losing has done for the england team,after the first test they have gone too far in defence and fear of losing their wicket has caused the loss of that wicket,this seems to have run through the team with each loss,some of the umpires verdicts have left the team questioning whether they can have a fair crack at the game and this must have been even more disheartning, they now must stand tall and play the Aussies and not climb into their shell,they are a good side the selection has been fairly good the coaching is good to,good enough to win they just have to play their game and not become bunnies..COME ON ENGLAND and show that fight
Complain about this postIt gives me no pleasure to say this as I'm English but....
All that's happening is that Cricket is going back to its default position. Ie. Australian dominance. All sports have a default position. Witness what's happening in Rugby with the All Blacks. With football I guess the default position is Brazil being number 1 (though that is a more complicated arguement) but the point is that the same countries always tend to dominate. The reason is that they know how to teach sport to their children. So with the Ashes we can argue that Panesar should've played sooner or that Pietersen should've batted at 4 from the start, but the simple truth is that there are more world class Australian cricketers than English ones.
So until we change the way that sport is taught in schools we'll have this discussion every few years in between the various (enjoyable) blips of English success. And we'll spend our lives saying that the football team should practise penalties and that the rugby boys have too hard a season and that Andy Murray needs more time and we'll keep staying up till 3am to watch the women's curling team win a bronze medal at the Olympics.
So there.
Ben Edwards
Complain about this postSurely this England team has to be one of the most inept teams sent anywhere by anyone in any sport: poorly prepared, poor team spirit, poor morale, poor technically and over paid.
Throughout the series I have come to realise that not one of the England players would get into the Australian team and only two or three would be serious contenders for the 'A' side.
Just not good enough when facing the best in the World!
David Amies
Complain about this postI have to agree with the comments made by J Agnew. We recently stayed at the same hotel as the team in Adelaide and the priority appeared to be WAGS, not team unity. Very disappointing for all the travelling fans who have paid thousands of pounds
Complain about this postThis is the simple fact why we lost:
World Class England Cricketers:
Flintoff
Pietersen
Panesar (who didn't even figure in the first two tests)
World Class Australian Cricketers:
Complain about this postPonting
Gilchrist
Hayden
Warne
McGrath
Clarke
Hussey
Langer
Clark - soon to become a world class blower.
Lee
Does the team have a permanently assigned Sports Psychologist attached to them.
Complain about this postIt seems to me they need positive brain washing with a need to win.
Freddy produced his magic in 2005, just like Ian Botham did in the 80s. But I think that magic is long gone. Is that his inconsistency or the lack of form?
Complain about this postIf England can't show the Aussies something as a fight in Sydney, they are in for a lot of criticising and the humiliation that has been shown only once in the history of this series which is as almost as old as cricket itself.
I do not understand how a bunch of guys who have chosen to play cricket for a career and who have been chosen to represent their country can put up such a pathetic show.
I could get a duck against Lee or get hammered around the ground by Symonds and I don't play cricket. So what can our boys do that I can't?
Complain about this postengland hold the ashes because of an umpiring error; so much for our heroes. peterson to bat at 4 the monkey cant bat anywhere ; send him back to sa.
Complain about this posti agree that the england tail is far too big. my preferred lineup would be something like this...
strauss
Complain about this postcook
bell
vaughan
pietersen
collingwood
flintoff
read
panesar
harmison
hoggard
What a spineless lily livered performance that was! I should think they will be too ashamed to come home after this lot! I would be!
With regard to MZ's post maybe that protocol embarrassment could be avoided if this bunch of English dummies sent last years medals back!
Complain about this postThe scorecard reads "England won the toss and decided to bat". It should have read "England won the toss and decided to lose."
They have a name for England's cricket team. They are called losers. Flintoff said there are no cartwheels and they are not disheartened. What's he really saying? Keep yer chins up, lads, because if we play our cards right we can lose the last test as well. That'll show 'em and teach 'em a lesson.
Losers!
Complain about this postThis clearly proves that Australia were below par in 2005 and England over achieved!
Complain about this postThis past summer England only beat Pakistan because Shoaib & Mo Asif were out injured! Had they been fit, they would have suffered the same defeat as they did in Pakistan the winter before!
Now lets get a grip and forget about thinking England are the best team in the world!
Make Strauss Captain and removed the captaincy burdon from Flintoff!
Will the Queen want to recollect the MBE's now?
World Cup ambitions? I'd say Zimbabwe & Bangladesh will get to the same stages of the tournament as England and will get knocked out together!
Harmison quitting ODI's is beyond belief!
The England ODI bowling line up should be picked from:
Flintoff, Hoggard, Mahmood, Broad & Plunkett, with Panesar as spinner.
Batting should be from: Strauss, Cook, Bell, Peterson, Owais Shah, Collingwood and Keeper Read.
Keep a similar team to ODI's as to Test Teams, the same way as Australia & Pakistan do!
Good, luck England, you'll need it for the future...
Some of the reactions on here are a bit over the top.
England were right to celebrate the Ashes win in 2005-they had just beaten the world champions of 10 years- playing brilliant wonderful cricket-in an enthralling series in whch the whole nation was swept along.
Those celebrations have nothing to do with this series and I really do not think England have been living in the clouds since then.We lost 2-0 in Pakistan let us not forget.
It is a shame for the game if cricket that this series has been a non-contest.
I wonder even after the joy has settled would the Aussies be slightly disappointed at the lack of contest and enthralling close cricket.
Sport (see football) becomes boring when it is one-sided.
Even if 2009 is closer it will not be the same as there will be no KP v Warne contest and the Aussie team will be devoid of those great personalities.
Everything Fletcher has done in the last five years was leading up to this series-so a non-contest is sad.
Please be less knee jerk in reaction.
England are quite rightly ranked #2 in the world and as for those saying that playing four bowlers is the way to go-England's success over the years has been based on having five bowlers.
When Gooch was captain four bowlers were the norm and England struggled to bowl out sides and the batting still collapsed.
A batsman going in at number 7 is at a lost and usually ends up with the tail.
The Aussies can get away with four bowlers because they have Warne-and even he struggled in the 2nd Test.
It is also incorrect to say England have lost every session-they have won quite a few sessions on this tour-far more than previous recent England touring teams have.
England have a good team-Australia are a very good team with great players-Australia are at home-so defeat is hardly surprising.
Let's have more rational debate and evolution-English cricket is in good state and a revolution is not required.
Complain about this postYes, Australia will win 5-0 but can any sensible Australian say that he is over the moon about recovering the Ashes. To beat any side playing this badly is as unrewarding as it is for Man Utd to beat Dover 5-0 in the FA Cup.
Complain about this postOn this form, Australia cannot judge how good they are, only that they are much, much better than England or even Zimbabwe.
A humiliating defeat,poor leadership and
Complain about this postperformances under pressure
Hi Jonathan,
I am, being a Pakistani national, fan of cricket and a regular reader of your columns. I think England has some quality players, e.g. KP, Collingwood, Flintoff BUT there is a lack in the team spirit to play for win. At this stage England needs a player or two who could lead them to a draw/win, like Inzi and Yousaf for Pakistan, and I am very much sure that both KP and Collingwood has that character and potential, they just need to apply it.
Fingers crossed for the England cricket team.
Imtiaz
Complain about this postTo sum up England's attempt's in one word - "Rubbish!"
Need I say anymore!?
Go home now, forfeit the final test because we already know the result!
Complain about this postMonty and Mahmood were the only good thing to come out form the tour.... but everybody lacked passion.... shame shame shame
Complain about this postI am an Indian and last year cheered English team when they finally won Ashes. I said to myself this is the team that finally thrashed and robbed these blunt Aussies of their pride. But, honestly, speaking I am thoroughly dissappointed by their pathetic and spineless display esp. in this Melbourne test. Some serious soul searching needed in days to come
Complain about this postIs England the new India......Never learning anything, showing too much respect to the intemperate aussies and spineless underpressure and completely clueless of leadership and direction...please no
Complain about this postI believe Australia is the only team in the world that has single focus. They don't play to win but their focusness wins games. They have a super game plan and stick to it no matter what. In simple words Focus=Power and they have it. What England needs is an A team and a B team. If A team can't cope then give give B a chance. Perhaps B maybe better.
Complain about this postI agree with most comments I have read regarding selection, disunity within camp, poor preperation etc etc (the list could go on as you know)
What has been most apparant to me however is just how easily the English have succumbed to admittedly a much better side but not shown any motivation or passion.
I have watched every test and found myself being embarrassed to a new level in every test and I cannot see this changing in the last test. But I will watch it as I support england despite being slapped in the face and I hope we show at least a little passion and fight.
What better motivation could there have been than playing for your country against the best side in the world (if not our generation) and (defending - past tense) the ashes. We don't deserve to hold the ashes based on these displays and the ozzies thoroughly deserve it and lead the way in world cricket - the ridiculous celebrations that followed last year were ill conceived and typically english....
Last year I asked my 7 year old son what he wanted to be when he grew up and he replied he wanted to be like Freddie Flintoff and play cricket for England.
I don't think he would give the same answer now.... I wonder how long I will have to wait to him say something similar if ever again???
Come on England and prove you deserve to wear the 3 lions in the last test. Then regroup and get the basics right - bring on 2009!!
Complain about this postI agree with those ex-player/pundits who cite lack of bloody-mindedness/cussedness/"won't give you the satisfaction pal" factor in the the way we've capitulated. Unfortunately the rot goes back several generations to the liberal generation who against all advice and judgement told us not make sport too competitive in schools, applaud failure and reward mediocrity. We unfortunately are now not a top flight sporting nation in what were our traditionally strong sports, all of which by a remarkable co-incidence, rely on a healthy sense of fierce competition. Would the current generation of "England Players" stand up to the kind of working over that fast bowlers like Hall/Griffiths, Lillee/Thompson, Holding/Marshall/Daniel/Julian used to routinely dish up before they bothered bowling a "metronomic" line and length? I doubt it very much. Until we discover that steel that people like Brian Close and Geoff Boycott were wont to display under duress we won't cut the mustard and all the academies, central contracts and limitation of overseas players in the domestic game will make not a jot of difference.
Complain about this postFirst of all you have to say hats off to the Australians; they bounced back from losing the best series ever in a spectacular manner.
Secondly you have to say it was a mistake to make Flintoff the captain - good cricketer though he is. There is no question that Strauss should have retained the leadership after a sucessful summer. He is a better captain and reminds me of the Brearley era.
Thirdly Boycott was right when he said you cannot afford one bad cession against a good team like Australia - it will probable cost you the match.
Fourthly, don't despair. We still have many players of great talent some of whom have already proven what they can do during the 2005 summer.
So lets get back to winning ways starting with the last Test. A white wash is no good for the game - its boring to all true cricket lovers. What we want ,in future, is a close series with England just winning in the last match of a series.!
Complain about this postPerhaps the England team should actually get a telegram of censure and a request to return the MBEs?
Complain about this postIt is sad to see the performance or lack of it of the current England team. However, I refuse to write them off. Changes there must be. We need a coach and a captain who can unify the team and get the best out of each player. If Michael Vaughn is 100% fit and only if he is 100% should he be offered the captaincy. The captain must think like a general and be determined to rally his troops and play to win. Flintoff needs his ankle taking care of and be 100% before he plays again.
Complain about this postAlongside Panesar England need a good off spinner. Anyone out there in England?
Cecil Siriwardene
What I find most frustrating is that due to our inability to peform to our maximum potentil at all times , we have made the Australians look better than they are .
I agree , If you play your best and lose , at least you can hold your heads up high .
But after this show , SOME of our team (batsmen in particular and an ex wicket keeper ? ) and coaching staff / selectors / managers , need to take a long hard look at themselves......
Complain about this postNice to see the old Dunkirk spirit alive and well in cricket-What.
Complain about this postI think after the lads valiant rearguard action in Melbourne, they can now surreneder with dignity and get the next plane home, thus saving us all having to go through the agony of another slaughter in Sydney
when the team return from the tour the first thing that must happen is every ashes 05 playing player and back room staff in this series.
Complain about this postwho has contributed to the england down fall be stripped of there O B Es.
before being allowed through immigration at heathrow.
they should then be detained by special branch and mi5 officers and questioned in deatail as to why they are a bunch of loosers!
who are only intrested in media attention and money.
fletcher then to be stripped of his citizenship and be deported.
and the players to be served with another prestigous badge "no not blue peter" but
ASBOs
The British malaise - no passion,endless excuses,no responsibility taken. Be it football,rugby, cricket or anything else.
Complain about this postI listened to all the commentary - suffered the pain - began to wholly agree with Geoffrey Boycott !!- The fact is the team were/are rubbish and were out thought,out prepared and out played.
Poor captaincy,poor coaching,poor playing - You can't epect to always win but we should always expect our national sport teams to compete.
This was dire - Aussies awesome? No but they are focussed and passionate. 5-0 coming up.
Omar's post (388) makes me laugh. Much as I agree about England's incompetence the fact he appears to be suggesting that Pakistan would have beaten England in the summer if their 3 main bowlers had been fit is ridiculous. England had their ENTIRE bowling line up missing for two of the games.
Also when Pakistan's legendary bowling line up returned to 'show England's hapless one day team how to play', what happened? Erm, well the series was 2-2.
So Omar, we'll learn from Australia but forget about copying Pakistan's way as it is as doomed to failure as England's!
Good luck to England AND Pakistan in the future. We'll both need it mate.
Complain about this postall this should be no supprise. The only supprise to me is that an equal contest was predicted before the test series - surely the writing was o the wall before we even started
Complain about this postOf course the "glory" that was 2005 was no such thing-a narrow set of victories against a side missing several key players.
Complain about this postI don't know what to say, I am extremely dissappointed and well, I can say there is always next time. Now, since water has already flown under the bridge, so there is no point in cribbing about it. But, there is some serious need for introspection. The problem is absence of players like Simon Jones, Trescothiick, Vaughan and well, last year G Jones was also in form. I would say they need some inspired performance to stop this Aussie juggernaut. I agree that Aussies played like champions, so go out like warrior boys, if you perform you get all the adulation, if you lose then still their is some pride. But, atleast for sake of your fans, show them why should they keep faith in you.
Complain about this postA word of advise for Aussies, Fine you guys played good but hey, after all its a game and don't be so boastful, Remember 2005....Congrats in end ...well played
Enough of excuses. Our Aussies players are simply too commited, focused, and determined to achieve what they have set out to achieve. Judging from their performances thus far, I am sure any team in the world would be hard pressed to bowl them out twice. I strongly believe at least one partnership will flourish (to save their situation) during the twenty wickets that the opponent team has to go through, such is their sense of mateship. They will 'die' for each other in the field.
Complain about this postWhat a mess! Completely unprepared, unfocussed and totally humiliated. But here is a crumb of comfort to help numb the pain. Remember that England's win in the Sydney test in 2003 was the beginning of a golden period which ultimately led to the Ashes victory in 2005. Will history repeat itself? If only.......
Complain about this postDid Australia really plan for this series 18 months ago ?
Then why did they stick with Hayden, Gilchrist, Katich and Gillespie after the 2005 Ashes series ?
Gillespie was still bowling rubbish (but scoring a double hundred!- as recently as the Bangladeshi series).
Stuart Clark only recently got selected in South Africa, Phil Jacques should be on the team and it was pointless to see Hayden get scores against poorer sides like the West Indies.
Before Aussies get too smug-the genius of Ponting and Warne have elevated this Aussie side and have hidden over the cracks.
Seems silly to say so at 4-0 but playing Hayden, Langer, Gilchrist, Warne and McGrath is doing nothing for the future of Aussie cricket.
The jury is still out on Michael Clarke and Andrew Symonds.
Stuart Clark like Brett Lee- has taken alot of wickets on his introduction to test cricket but let us see how he performs without Warne and McGrath.
The Aussie slectors seem less ruthless than they were to the likes of the Waughs and Ian Healy or maybe they know there is a lack of class coming through.
Complain about this postLots of hysteria on here, how about a reality check?
1. 2005 Australia admitted they were beaten by the better side at the time - not a fluke blah blah.boring boring boring neither side here seems able to accept it ...weird!
2. England are number 2 test side in world by results. But Australia were miles better this time as upset about 1
3. Freddie is not a good captain, saw him in charge at Lords defensive & unimaginative - should have been Strauss .. but we had already lost Vaughan - biggest loss to team
4. We looked under prepared & a bit complacent & sri lanka series showed we had lost a bit of momentum - due loss of Vaughan ? possible
Complain about this postBlame the British media and non-cricketing fans: since the Ashes win in '05, too much optimism has been placed on the England's team shoulders.We scraped a 2-1 win - it could have gone either way - and suddenly the team is elevated to gods. You only had to look at the odds the bookies were offering on England to relinguish the Ashes - 4 to 1 ON - and this confirmed my views that they were going to get a thrashing.
Complain about this postYou can tinker with the selections, the management, the batting order, everything but get a reality check - English cricket has been dying on it's feet for sometime. Look at your local parks and village greens at the weekend and who do you see? Old men playing who should have retired ages ago but keep the game going because there are no kids playing. Also you will see teams of Indians, Pakistanis and West Indians which in 10 years will be the makeup of the England team.
In response to Omar
England only beat Pakistan because Pakistan were missing two players...how long do you have ?
England were missing Vaughan and Simon Jones, not to mention Giles.
In this Ashes tour they are missing the same plus Trescothick.
I don't really go down these injury excuses road - England beat Australia fair and square-England beat Pakistan fair and square and now Australia have beaten England fair and square.
This 'if only' world is a world that does not exist.
Complain about this postThe pinnacle of a cricketers career is winning the Ashes.
Complain about this postThis performance is a disagrace. It is time for heads to roll
As therapy after this pathetic performance, I gave some thought to the way forward. I propose:
(1) Fletcher sacked as coach. He is not willing to be accountable and that grates.
Complain about this post(2) The same selectors to pick the side home and away - probably a team of 5.
(3) Fletcher remains a selector - he is a bloody good judge of a player
(4) The selectors travel with the side away from home.
(5) Try and get Vaughan back in as captain, but if not, the captaincy passes to Strauss.
(6) Flintoff is not a no 6 bat against good attacks. he must bat at 7 and we will have to play 4 bowlers plus KP/Collingwood.
(7) Harmison must open the bowling if he plays
(8) The winner in the GoJo Read debate was the bloke who said neither of them. Get used to it and pick somebody else.
England are in trouble. They've lost their captain, their best two batsmen and their best bowler, and the decisions that were made to replace the injured players have now cost them the Ashes.
But why were no Sussex players selected when they were so dominant in the domestic season over this last summer?
When a team is dominant to the extent that they win the double at home you would think that some of their players would be touring in the winter with England. Not a bit of it. I can't understand why Kirtley didn't replace Jones since Anderson & Mahmood have not done much at all.
Matt Prior is the best wicket keeper batsman in England and should have been picked instead of G Jones, and with Flintoff unfit, Michael Yardy would have been a better option to strengthen the middle order.
Complain about this postChris Adams is the best captain in England and much of Sussex's success was down to him. He would have been a much better deputy for Vaughan, especially after the further loss of Trescothick.
So the Aussies can thank your lucky stars that England didn't pick the Sussex stars!
to me it just about sums up english sport was it only 15 months ago that this bunch of possuers were presented with a gong for what!!! winning back the urn after 16 years with a 2-1 win ( hardly conclusive) and all you lot in the media ranks blowing their trumpets all falling over your-selves to get that EXCLUSIVE players writing books (for gods sake) you all ought to be ashamed of your-selves.
Complain about this postthe above goes for football,rugby,atheletics, I wonder if any of them will hand them back after getting them by false pretences
england are simply rubbish, why they always overhype themselves, in every sport football, cricket, rugby, tennis etc
Complain about this postDear Duncan Fletcher,
Why do you post to BBC blogs under the pseudonym of George? (#23)
Complain about this postApart from Haydn and Symonds Australia were 119-8. One partnership in the game was the difference and there were a number of decsions which were difficult to believe especailly Hoggard to Hayden. To win matches you need to capture the moment and Austarlia were certainly allowed to do that.
Complain about this postWas the England team there for the holiday, or to compete?
I would think the former, considering the way they played. Can you make sure they refund the ICC!
Complain about this postI am looking to organise an Ashes celebration in Trafalgar Square for the fantastic Aussie victory. Anybody interested in coming?
Complain about this postThere's no shame, or surprise, in losing to this Australian team but there are some worrying signs for future. Utmost of these is the choice of Flintoff as captain. This does look to be a case of the Peter principal in action; he seemed to be given the job on the back of Freddie-mania after the 2005 ashes, but I can't see any characteristics in the man that would make him a captaincy candidate. He's a very good player that can lead the way with his performances, but you don't need to be captain to do that. He seems very tactically unaware, very unimaginative, always relying on pre-game plans and things that have worked in the past rather than playing the situation in front of him. This was very clear in this match with all the short stuff to Symonds on a pitch that was seaming around and then when the onslaught started he was clueless, looking like a boxer covering up on the ropes hoping for the bell to save him. You don't see him giving the bowlers a comforting word in the ear to get a good couple of overs out of them when things are going badly, rather he'll take the ball off them and try to do it himself. This lack of man management skills is doubtless replicated in the dressing room so it's no surprise we've collapsed so many times this tour.
The sooner Vaughan comes back the better, and now we've got a spinner who'll actually bowl 30+ overs an innings, Freddie can go down to 7 as we'll only need 3 seamer.
Complain about this postJonathon Agnew is quite right - turning the tour into a family holiday for wife/girlfriend does nothing to generate team spirit. But then these players are prima donnas who want everything on a plate.
Complain about this postWe have our favoured players - no suggestion that, for example, Giles, must fight his way back into the side. He is one of the gang with a 'right' to a place.
Poor leadership on the field - ok have a bowling plan, but is the captain and the bowlers incapable of holding that in their collective heads. What use is it on the wall when they are on the field? What is Flintoff for if not to think, plan, adapt 'on the hoof'? Not up to the job; up to excuses.
I agree with Agnew. England have completely lost the plot. There is no 'fight' in the team, and the leadership is appalling. There is no excuse for the kind of defeat they just suffered.
I have been predicting this for a month now on my blog...and it is sad to see it come true. I so wanted Australia to have a tough series.
Complain about this postthis team is an absolute disgrace and an emabrrasment for the country. Bring them home now
Complain about this postThree hopefully newish points.
1. re comments about poor schools. As someone who works in education, kids aren't allowed to fail/come second/not "achieve", cos there's too much grief if they do. If you say a kid hasn't done so well/hasn't made the grade etc, you get parents, heads, governors, politicians on your back, cos its your fault. No one ever accepts that it could be kid/parents fault, and that the solution might be a bit of digit extraction. Relevance to this situation: having been cossetted now they've made the test team, this shambolic defeat won't hurt at all. Sure, "Hello" won't be calling, but there's still those comfy central contracts to fall back on. When the plane returns, a bit of the treatment dished out to the Italians in 1966 wouldn't go amiss.
2. Look at Wisden in 2004 and its report on the previous Ashes. Same story: lack of commitment, poor captaincy, no gumption, insufficient match practice. Why was nothing learnt? Worryingly the Oz squad 3 years ago was almost the same as now - ours was totally unrecognizable(Batty, Dawson, Kabir Ali....)
3. However, do we really want success ? The Oz coach of the UK swimming squad was on Today last week. The interviewer was trying to suggest that his training methods were too harsh for our lads. The coach could barely reply for laffing. Do we want our athletes to train all hours, and be really professional, or are we happy to be dilletantes? Too often we say we want the former when we really expect the latter. I mean, can you really see Shane on Strictly Come Dancing ?
Complain about this postI think that the Australian team should receive their MBE's. Whether you like it or not you have to admire the way that they have fought over the last 14 months. They are not only holders of the ICC trophy, current holders of the Ashes but will most likely win the World Cup in April.
Complain about this postAs for England, mistakes have been a plenty both by the players and management. England need to hold their heads high and bounce back from this and take some pride in the last Test and one day series. The depth and spirit of the team needs to come through. They need to bounce back from defeat; something the Aussies do very well.
Aggers you've got it spot on. The English cricket side has been played into the ground by a rampant Australian outfit focussed on revenge for the 2005 series.
I cannot for the life of me see them avoiding the 5 nil thrashing they deserve.
Complain about this postThis is the most puzzling series that I can ever remember! A team of 'world conquerers' can turn in to a bunch of field mice faster than a Glenne Mc Grath delivery (when he used to bowl more than 16mph)???
What went wrong? We can't just blame it on all the injuries and abscenties... That was the England of old! I personally think that Flintoff (who I regard to be the best cricketer in the world) should be dropped as captain simply because he doesn't seem to be making unbiased decissions. Take the Wicket keeping situation for example!!!! Any captain of any team, let alone an International captain has to have his team/country's best at heart, and i'm sorry to say but I dont think this was the case during this series; I think friends got stuck somewhere imbertween his ability to pick hus best side.
Anyway I just hope England can pick themselves up and go home with a 4-1 consollation...or else Let us all prey for RAIN!!!!
Complain about this postIt's good that key selections and batting positions are now being based on the informed opinions and intimate player knowledge of the general public, rather than the idiosyncrasies of an inner-circle few. I'm now convinced we should throw this job open to a public dial in, similar to Strictly Come Dancing. This might get Monty opening the batting with Kev in a thoroughly exhilarating opening half-hour, after which we can get on with our lives.
Seriously though, perhaps our top players have become too rich too young (see Ashes 2005) and lack motivation? Discuss.
Strauss for captain (my vote was there for this series).
And well done Oz - you showed us how professionals do it. Entertaining stuff.
Complain about this postspot on aggers, especially your comments re the team not all spending christmas day together! - i feel a bit sorry for flintoff - top chap and all but he's got the beefy art of captaincy - strauss should have been captain full stop and i think the scoreline would not have been as shabby as it is now - maybe 2-1 with 1 to play and a PROPER COMPETITIVE SERIES
Complain about this postWhile I accept that England have been completely out of form this winter, I think it is important to remember that they are not the first side placed 2nd in the test rankings to go to Australia and to come away with their tails between their legs. South Africa, at their most recent peak with Donald, McMillan, Kirsten et al were also humiliated. Australia are a formidable side and England are no where near the form they displayed at home in 2005.
Complain about this postInteresting to read the comments on cricinfoaustralia about Flintoff starting to sound like a broken record. I agree; staying positive is one thing, but when you go on and on about "pride in the dressing-room" when your team repeatedly displays anything but pride on the field, you are setting yourself up to look and sound ridiculous. Sorry Freddie.
I also agree with the comments on here that it's galling to hear the captain and coach sounding as if they're not too bothered about being 1-0, 2-0, 3-0 and even 4-0 down; can you imagine Ponting standing in front of the cameras in a similiar situation and saying anything other than "we're ashamed of the way we're playing and we're going to kick ass until it's sorted out"? Come to think of it, can you imagine Ponting still being in his job at 4-0 down?
Freddie's a good bloke and an outstanding cricketer, but he should have had the honour to resign after losing the Ashes 3-0 and make way for someone else to restore some pride in the last two games. Well it's not too late, he should resign now, let (presumably) Strauss take charge of the final game and give himself the best opportunity to salvage his personal pride by making a major contribution with bat and ball.
Again, sorry Freddie, but when the going gets tough the tough get going, and the only way for the England team and you personally to get going is to allow someone else to take on the captaincy and give yourself and the team the chance to go down fighting. Like you, we don't want you to come home with a 5-0 drubbing under your belt.
Complain about this postIt is easy to pile on the criticism when a team is having a bad time. The Englishmen were hard done by in umpiring decisions throughout this series, especially LBW's. If guys like Ponting (plumb lbw in first test) or Hayden or Symonds (both plumb in Melbourne test) are given second lives by wrong decisions, the whole course of the match changes. When is the ICC going to use the outstanding technology avaliable for these vital decisions. It is really pathetic to see the wrong umpiring decisions broadcast to the whole world by the available technology, and yet this technology is not used. A final point -- I think Flintoff should have used Panesar a little more in this test match than just for 12 overs, especially after Warne turned the ball viciously and picked up 5 wkts. Poor Monty bowled well and should have had Symonds LBW.
Complain about this postHey Aggers
Complain about this postHow about pinning the blame where it really lies - with the management at the ECB. Who elects Chairman David Morgan and Chief Executive David Collier? First we had the disaster of selling off all the rights to terrestrial TV and putting back the development of cricket amongst ordinary people, after the massive boost of the 2005 Ashes win. Now the farcical arrangements for Australia and the lack of Management, leaving poor Freddie and Fletcher to hang out to dry.
Sack the ECB board and get some 21st Century management in - not these self satisfied stuffed shirts that are still living the in world of the 19thC British amateurs!
Mike
Pathetic! Jonathan is right but too kind!
Wrong captain, many wrong decisions both on and off the field.
Complain about this postThe captain and the manager need to rule with a rod of iron and be strategists who don't leave strategy notes on a bar room floor, or wherever. They are supposed to be world class professionals not wimps that need to see wifey or mummy! Of course you are going to be away from home. If you can't hack it then don't do it, let someone who can!
English cricket needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom. Must stop giving jobs to the boys and select purely on merit and ability to play together as a team. Unsettling influences must be eradicated from the start, i.e. question of captaincy, the taking of injury prone and homesick players, the wicket keeper debate. Question marks also hang over how the players are been coached -who cares if someone like Steve Harmison is technically incorrect in his action as long as he is effective. He has been ruined and his confidence destroyed. Captain should not be a main batsman, strike bowler or wicket keeper but a middle order / part time bowler, someone who can lead, inspire, commit and get up the noses of the opposition -Paul Collingwood is the man and previously it should have been Robert Croft. Players picked in the squad for the first time must be selected so as not disillusion them. Is Ashley Giles really the best we have to offer in that department -I think not. Are Read & Jones and now Nixon the best wicket keeper batsmen in the country? -No and why pick Nixon for the one day squad at his age when we need to look to the future and select teams who can play together for the next few years. Is Nick Pothas eligible and if so, there is your man for the next fifteen years. Countries like India pick teenagers for their test teams and they go on to become greats like Sachin Tendulkar. We should be doing the same, at least Alistair Cook has been given a chance but there are more who need blooding. Why do we need a South African who appears to have had a charisma bypass operation in charge? Surely we have home grown talent like Botham, Boycott and a few others. Until we sort out this mess we'll just be the laughing stock of world cricket.
Complain about this postThe Pietersen move was an interesting one on many levels; it debatable that Collingwood is possibly more naturally-suited to a defensive action, but it's also the first look we've really had of Pietersen having to face the newer ball and fresher bowlers.
He's made much of swash-buckling with the lower-order, but never really had to prove himself as a genuine upper middle-order batsman around whom the entire innings is built. It's not possible for him to be truly lauded at the "next big thing" until he's won or saved many a match - al a Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar – in this most demanding position...
I also do not understand Pietersen behaviour in previous innings; when the tail is reached he furthers the seriousness of the situation by needlessly forcing the strike on to the lesser-equipped batting partner, rather than farming the strike and protecting the tail (and innings). He seems more interesting in achieve NO status and thereby working up his Test average...
Not a Team player by any stretch of the imagination. It was fine when he/they were winning, but now that ENG have been soundly thrashed time and time again the cracks are starting to show in this charade...
Complain about this postI hav a suggestion for england team.....if they really wanna save last match....they need to hire players from other nations...herez the team...
SACHIN TENDULKAR
BRIAN LARA
JACK KALLIS
CHRIS GAYLE
SANATH JAYASURYA
RAHUL DRAVID
M S DHONI--WICKET KEEPER
MAKHAYA NTINI
MURLITHARAN
SHAUN POLLOCK
SHANE BOND
this team can actually win against the OZ...but not the current flintoff men..coz they had accepted defeat as soon as they landed in oz..........shame on english team....
Complain about this postThis useless collection of professional cricketers
Complain about this postposing as an England team will go down in history as the worst ever,chosen to defend The Ashes.
They will become the benchmark for hopelessness.
The aussies now,rightly,believe the last ashes series result was a complete FLUKE !
Those expecting a performance of pride are unfortunately living in an ideal world.
This is now a dead rubber and once the intensity of the series is over -it is human nature to lose interest and the English players will want to go home and end their long drawn out misery.
The series was lost in the first three tests and the Aussies (guilty themselevs of losing 'dead tests' in the past) are being carried on a wave of revenge and Shane and Glenn's farewell party.
England are unwanted guests now and are in a total no win situation.
Expect 5-0.
There is nothing positive to gain for England.
Complain about this postMy wife said they shouldn't play the last two tests and I somewhat agree.
The Pietersen move was an interesting one on many levels; it debatable that Collingwood is possibly more naturally-suited to a defensive action, but it's also the first look we've really had of Pietersen having to face the newer ball and fresher bowlers.
He's made much of swash-buckling with the lower-order, but never really had to prove himself as a genuine upper middle-order batsman around whom the entire innings is built. It's not possible for him to be truly lauded at the "next big thing" until he's won or saved many a match - al a Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar – in this most demanding position...
I also do not understand Pietersen behaviour in previous innings; when the tail is reached he furthers the seriousness of the situation by needlessly forcing the strike on to the lesser-equipped batting partner, rather than farming the strike and protecting the tail (and innings). He seems more interesting in achieve NO status and thereby working up his Test average...
Not a Team player by any stretch of the imagination. It was fine when he/they were winning, but now that ENG have been soundly thrashed time and time again the cracks are starting to show in this charade...
Complain about this postGutted at the 4 - 0 score at the moment. But let's be realistic, this tour did not start brightly from preparation to the dramatic exit of Trescothick. I think we need to take stock, look at the positives such as Cook (youngest player to score maiden 1000 test runs in calender year), cut out the recriminations and realise how much inexperience we have - nurture it not crush it. I don't think we need a lynch mob, players don't put that England shirt on with the intent of playing awful. I'm not making excuses we have been soundly beaten, but we need to take measured rational decisions on the root causes, not knee jerk reactions - especially from so called experts who didn't exactly step up to the mark as test players themselves.
Complain about this postI spent the first 20 years of my life in Oz and the second 20 in England. Maybe it was the optimism of youth, but I recall Aussie life being about mateship, good humour and giving everything your best shot. That's what defines the Aussie spirit and that's why we have the sportmen and national identity we have.
England, by contrast, is becoming more negative by the day, illustrated by the comments on this site. Everyone is disgusted and appalled. Most want to sack the management: some even want to pick the team.
The reactions are understandable but help no-one. You Poms need to be get your act together. Your national spirit is to build em up when they achieve and you knock em down when they fail.
That attitide isn't going to inspire future generations of cricketers, or the footballers or rugby squads who are also falling apart on the international stage.
The problems are deeper than batting and bowling...
Complain about this postIt is now pretty clear that the glorious ashes victory only 15 monts ago was mainly due to good management, good leadership and full availability which gave many of the same players both the determination and confidence to beat the Aussies. We now have good evidence that the management and leadership have been relatively poor in this series. This needs to be addressed quickly before our young and talented players start to doubt their ability to become the No 1 Test team in the world - which may seem far fetced today but is within their capabilities.
Complain about this postAs an Aussie following this test series from canada, I can't help but feel a tad sorry for the English players & fans. The current Australian team is one that will be remembered for generations. Well played all around Australia.
PS. I had to grin to myself when I realised Canada was pooled with England for the upcoming world cup.
Complain about this postWhen will the selectors realise that a brilliant cricketer does not necessarily make a good captain, at least until he has learned 'the trade'. (and ...no I'm not an ex-yorkshire cricketer trying to be a commentator who drones on and on making the same point over and over again untill the listeners pray for the daily service to start)
Complain about this postWe keep making the same mistake! Ian Botham's personal performance suffered when he was captain as has Freddie's as have many others (you too Mike Atherton). They always protest that this is not the case but it demonstrably is so.
The media people love to egg the selectors on....'the people's captain'... good old Freddie! Wider still and wider - just one more idol to build up and knock down as quickly as possible.
Freddie is brilliant and I love to watch him - he takes much of the credit for the fact that we won in 2005 but is equally responsible for this abysmal showing in 2006!
I'm available for advice if needed!
I've just noticed that Ed Bell made the same point - shit!
As pathetic a performance as I can remember from an England team and there have been a few over the years.We offer nothing but excuses and having won the ashes last year some of our players think they are better than they are.Contrast that with the determination of the Australians.This defeat sums up so much that is bad about sport in this country.Fletcher must clearly resign.No coach could continue after this abject series.
Complain about this postIt has been suggested that Flintoff has an exaggerated fondness for alcoholic beverages.
There may or may not be any truth in such rumours.
But were an English professional footballer who appeared too drunk to talk to the press following victory in a match, to be offered the captaincy of the national side for the duration of an important tournament, there would surely be howls of protest across the nation.
Why is it different for cricketers?
Complain about this postNever mind whether or not the Aussies should be going on Open Top Bus Tours or getting MBEs... Is that Zimbabwean fake going to get his Passport taken back off him now? 14 Ashes Tests he's been in charge for, and he has 3 wins to show for it (and the 2 of those last year were more flukes than anything else), 9 defeats and 2 draws. Hardly a commending record.
Complain about this postEngland are a bloody disgrace.
Complain about this postTheir captain says they are not downhearted; which only goes to show how little they understand the situation. They should not only be downhearted at how far behind the Aussies they are, but should be ashamed to represent their country so poorly.
Fortunately I can remember the days when Englands cricketers allowed us to hold our heads high with the likes of Trueman, Statham, Lock & Laker, May, Cowdrey Barrington and Evans.
I doubt I will live long enough to see that again.
Pssst - new batting plan follows ...
I remember after some really bad scores, our Under 13 cricket side completely reversing the batting order (ie opening with numbers 10 and 11, number 9 at first drop etc).
The 'openers' made heaps and sparked the remainder into action.
(pass it on ...)
Complain about this postabsolutely pathetic - no passion, no pride, I cannot believe that some of these so called professionals are the ones who delivered the Ashes last year - hang your heads in shame!
Complain about this postEngland needs Ian Botham to come back
Complain about this postThe 2005 Ashes success was a brilliant moment for English cricket, however blowing it out of all proportion only resulted in firing up the Aussies to greater levels of performance. In 2005 England won Tests matches by very slim margins. We should have saved the bus rides and visits with the prime minister, etc for when we have actually come back from Australia with the Ashes.
It has been clear from the start of the tour that we could not match the Aussies performances. However the efforts over the last few days are little to do with lack of ability and all to do with character. Clearly the Flintoff/Fletcher duo are not providing the leadership that was so evident from Vaughan/Fletcher.
Freddy is a hugh talent and should be nurtured as such...however he is not the leader the team needs. It seems also clear that Duncan Fletcher increases his influence on the team when Michael Vaughan is captain. I think Fletcher has lost his position of strength through the events of the last few days and it will be time for a change.
Let's all pray for a quick return for Michael Vaughan...and how about appointing a retiring Glen McGrath as bowling coach
Complain about this postThe Australians have been good but certainly not as good as they have have made to look like by the English performance.
Complain about this postDon
How come you didnt mention Mohammed Yousuf, Younis Khan, Inzamman in your Batting line-up....??
Atleast you got Dravid and Tendulkar right.... :)
Complain about this postConstructive criticism is not possible following this performance. Commitment is not apparent niether is the concentration or skill to play a five day test. Too much one day cricket has developed a mindset which does not allow an innings to be built and the runs to start as a trickle and end up in a flow. The Captain of the team should set an example, and even when out of form should at least appear concerned rather than nonchalant. Selectors/management clearly have no confidence in their own ability which is why they will not take risks with team captaincy or selection. The appointment of Nixon for the ODI's is a joke. It is the greatest honour a sportsman can have to represent their country but that honour should be repayed with commitment- no need to give examples.....
Complain about this postI feel someone from England made sure the bowling plan was in the wrong hands.The conspiracy is within your own camp so don,t worry about checking any Aussie for stealing it and passing it on beause it was conveniently left for someone to find.How about starting with the one who wrote it.
Complain about this postThe muddled bowling plans were clearly leaked by a member of the touring party who wanted to show one of the many areas of the lack of leadership in its management.
Complain about this postMike in Malaysia
No ENGLISH PRIDE in this side fighting for their country in these test matches. The Austrailians detest defeat. Remember, they only just lost the Ashes last year.
This England side is a disgrace to all that has gone before them. Just a big headed bunch of losers.
Complain about this postNot being a cricket fan I have been following the cricket as best I can from Iraq where I am working. I have been bemused by the inept manner in which the test side has played and for the excuses offered by various people. It would appear to me the vast majority of the team are unfit to represent their country and the management even more culpable, I makes the awards of honours last year look totally b ewildering.
Get back to basics and get people who really wish to play for England and get rid of the well over inflated egoes.
Complain about this postEntirely predictable. I had a decent sized bet on a whitewash. Its endemic in English/British sport. Too much money and no hunger or desire. Cricketers cossetted on lucrative contracts and not playing enough cricket. It has been a pathetic spectacle and i am fed up of hearing how there have been 'many bright spots' where the hell are they? The tour has been a shambles and heads must roll. This is embarrassing.
Complain about this postCome on guys, back up the English Cricket team. Its not the end of the world as far as nature of cricket is concerned, if they loose the ASHES. It was almost the same English team which defeated Australia when they were here in 2005. Not all the time plans work as they planned.I really hope the England team performs well in 5th n final test.
Complain about this postOh no, someone updated the stats! Here's a laugh; forget what Warne does with the ball - if you look at the Aus batting averages, then it's correct - he's 8th and bats at 8. But in the English side, only Pietersen and Collingwood have a higher batting average, oh dear. And then, only KP, Colly and Cook have a higher average than Brett Lee! Mercifully, only Mahmood is managing to average less then Mc Grath, but then come Sydney, that could change again! Come on Glenn, one fifty and you could top the English series batting averages! Not fair to let one innings sway an average like that? OK then, swap Colly's double ton for a fifty and he's carrying Lee's pads for him too.
Complain about this postWhen will you chumps learn?
I reveal no great secrets in telling you the whole nation (barring the mighty Engeeerland) expected nothing short of this trouncing. Must do better? Gimme a break. My advice is this: next time, don't talk it up before you start and your certain defeat won't be as embarrassing :)
Go on the ladz! You are my heroes.
Complain about this postwords failed me as i watched the pathetic bowling performance from England last night, I nearly choked on my hot chocolate at the field set for one of the all time great batsmen, no, not Viv Richards or Clive Lloyd or even David Gower when he let rip, no this was for the brilliant Shane Warne, can you believe how big his head must have felt when he seen the fielders spreading further and wider than the Pacific bloody ocean... give me strength but if your top bowlers can't skittle out 9..10 and Joker what hope is there for a victory ever !!!!!
Complain about this postAfter loseing the Ashes there was no acknowledgement of what had gone wrong and after this debacle the same trite rubbish comes out.
As great a cricketer /character as Flintoff is, he is no captain. His tactics and selection have been exceptionaly poor and even worse his own batting form has been wrecked. He should stand aside, though with Vaughn in the one day side he probably won't, as Vaughn will captain if fit.
Why did he make Monty bowl to a defensive field, when he is an attacking bowler......and England needed wickets....what is his problem with Monty.
Nearly every past player has mocked the overly complicated bowling tactics, that were"leaked", which sugests that they were deliberately leaked, as a sign of frustration with the way the management are operating. The Xmas lunch story also shows that the team is not as one and that behind the scenes all is not well.
Which is hardly supriseing, looking at the preperation/tactics/selection disaster and the lack of any willingness to own up by anyone in charge.
Let's hope that Vaughn can get a grip over this shambles.
Well done the Aussies....
Complain about this postWell said Jonathan Agnew! From the time England's cricketers celebrated the regaining of the wee urn in such ostentatious fashion this hiding has been coming. However, whilst I expected Australia to win the series comfortably I did not expect England to surrender! It's supposed to be white shirts guys - not white flags!
Selecting Flintoff as captain has only compounded the other selection errors. He must be removed NOW! Andy Strauss made a fair go of the job when entrusted, he seems to have a great deal more tactical naus then Flintoff and he should be restored to that position.
Well done Oz (never, ever thought I'd say that) and you English 'professionals' - I suggest that you fly back into somewhere that doesn't have a road to it so the press and disgruntled fans can't get to you!
Do you blush on pay day?
You bloody well should.
Complain about this postIt took 11 men a whole summer to regain the ashes in 2005 and only 3 weeks for a bunch of muppets to lose them in 2006
Complain about this postIt just won't do!
Complain about this postThe England win in 2005 was vastly over-hyped. While they played well, they played to their limit, Australia just played badly in 2 tests and lost because of it. A combination of Glenn Mcgrath's injury, an out of form Gillespie and poor decisions from Ponting cost the games. Look at how they reacted to the 2-1 defeat- they took it badly and immediately worked on beating us in this tour. As for england, we thought we'd automatically win as were now Ashes holders.
It's time to start again and build on the limited building blocks we have- Cook, Panesar,Bell and Pietersen. The attitude needs to change, and we should go with 4 bowlers as 5 does not work and the tail starts at 6!!1
As one of those who have watched throughout the night - and also contributed to my son having a 'once in a life time experience' in being there- I feel that I have the right to make a comment. I don't doubt for a single second the quality of the individual players but I seriously question the preparation and that is not down to individuals. I agree totally with Jonathan in that the lack of team spirit is so obvious. They can talk all they want about being prepared but isn't it so clear that to build team spirit it is necessary to be together in preparing - and more important - during the contest. After all, that it what it is - not a holiday for families!!!
Complain about this posti wish that these people who have claimed to be cricket fans since the last ashes series would stop sending in stupid suggestions and think they know everything. England have had bad series in the past and this is worse than most of them. we need to remove freddy as captain asap but other than that we shouldnt make major changes. there are some fringe players who do not deserve to be in the squad e.g. plunkett, mahmood, G Jones... BUT other than that most of the players there have previously proven themselves to be quality players. peope like harmy who arent performing at the moment should be dropped for 1 or 2 games to make them work at returning to form. Make Strauss captain. Drop Mahmood and bring in S Broad. there is nothing to loose in the last test give the lad a chance. Drop KP to show him that he isnt all that great and give him a shock. bring in Joyce to give him some experience... and at the end of the day we've lost STOP MOANING (yes i know im moaning too, sorry)
Complain about this postWe have got what we deserved - nothing! Australia have not even had to get out of third gear to beat us, we have been crushed by a team playing at 70%. Why? We totally failed to prepare to play the best team in the world on their home turf; we didnt pick our best team, and the performances have been woeful. WAG's being allowed 100% access is also a mistake, how can they focus when they are semi-holidaying with their families? I accept we cannot always win, but the nature of the defeats has been hard to take - gutless!
Complain about this postAn absolutely disgraceful performance from England, they have shown that they lack team spirit, commitment and professionalism, and even now neither Duncan Fletcher of Andrew Flintoff can say that they have made serious mistakes, it is so disgraceful to see time and time again the same comments when in reality England were never in the ball game, I'm afraid we are in for a 5-0 whitewash, and possibly be humiliated in the one day series too.
The whole structure now needs a re-think, a radical change to the structure of the game, and a rethinking of central contracts, that should be based on performances.
Complain about this postWell done to the Aussies - nobody in their right mind could begrudge them their victory. I agree with an earlier comment that much damage was done with the MBEs and open-topped bus tour after the 2005 victory.
Complain about this postThe Aussies were always going to come back fighting and with a point to make. What is it with the English - in any sport? We get there but can´t sustain the success. Is that, by definition, the difference between winners and champions?
England team needs new coach and captain. Fredi can not handle tough situation.
Complain about this postIt was poor spirit from England all around considering that they have been on a high for most part of the year since their Ashes victory.
The signs were there through the summer against teams lesser than Australia, but no one paid any heed to the rot. Rather than take corrective measures, someone somewhere decided the best way ahead was to bulldoze through in the same fashion and ignore the match-winning performers of the summer. The end result was easy to predict well in advance- no clairvoyance was required - the particular system had to stall against a wall sometime or the other, and it did.
Australia was a wall too strong for the juvenile wiles of the English tour management.
Complain about this postAs ever Aggers hits the nail on the head; Redemption for the Aussies with a total humiliation of England and an Ashes whitewash
Complain about this postEngland lacked the self belief needed to beat Australia. I truely believe that both teams are on par when comparing talent but the Aussies are more determined and gritty.
England need to be patient, play the game at their pace and doing the basic right.
Flintoff is not a good captain but he is a fabulous player. Vaughn should return to the team as the captain even for the fifth test.
Complain about this postIt has been clear from the first test that the Australians have a much more positive attitude. A major difference shows in the demeanour of the bowlers - every (yes every) australian bowler looks happy to be bowling regardless of whether he has had an appeal turned down or been hit for four. In contrast, only Panesar shows the same attitude and at times, I despaired seeing Flintoff whose body language as captain should have been positive but was anything but. He really needs some poker lessons!
Complain about this postIt is time for the cliches to stop from Flintoff, Aggers. "Pride,spirit guts,commitment",etc are hollow now. I don't even think Fred believes them himself.
LOOK! (as the Aussies say when interviewed), Stop wanting to ape the Aussies and gain their respect as equals. England need to have the superior attitude and to feel they are better man for man. If the present team are not capable then bring in players who are not in awe of the Aussies and have the necessary character and ability to look down their noses at them, ( Like England do when they play "lesser teams").
Complain about this postWho??? Well, it is the bowling which stands out.
Who is as good as Stuart Clark? Lewis, Charlie Shreck, (Nickname, Shane?) Line and length merchants- welcome back!
After having heard Geoff Boycotts' mockingly dismissive comments on the potential of Symonds as a Test player, something like "My mother would love to bowl at him - if he's a Test player I'll eat my hat!"; I was flabbergasted when Boycott, perfect professional that he is, came on air on the third day and made no mention of his responsibility. So come on Geoff, we know you have a wonderful collection of hats to choose from. Put your professional judgement where your mouth is.
Complain about this postMay I suggest just before start of play on the last Test, I'll not be able to see it, tucked up in bed; but I reckon it'll make excellent radio with CMJ commentating!
Well done BBC, always a good show
All the best, and a happy New Year to you all
gerry
Time and past time for Mr. Fletcher to open his '3rd envelope' and be gone. Perhaps he can be coach of the Germany team? (They have one).
I am looking forward to St.Lucia. Will England be able to bowl out Canada in 50 overs or less? Or will John Davison and co flog the military medium to every corner of Beausejour?
Time to appoint a manager ( and captain with some 'will to win' along the lines of Steve Fleming ( yes I realise he is spoken for).
Flintoff should not be Captain and, you know KP? no-one is indispensible and cricket is a team sport, so either get with the program or sign up with Namibia!
Power to the criki wiki!!
Complain about this postFOR IMMEDIATE SALE
Open topped tour bus (ideal for hubristic "Victory Parade" or similar)
Four-hour booking of Trafalgar Square (booked months ago, now not required)
2 tonnes of confetti (used once only)
10,000 copies of CD recording of 'Jerusalem' sang my English cricket team (need to offload ASAP; make good coasters)
Autobiography book deal "How Good Am I??" with top London publisher (no longer required)
40,000 miniature Union Jack flags (pre-ordered, now no takers)
Box full of MBEs, OBEs and other miscellaneous gongs (can't find anyone to pin them on)
Trophy cabinet (empty, used for only 14 months and won't be needed again)
Smug, self-satisfied smirk (recently wiped off)
Weekend for 2 at the exclusive 'Marcus Trescothick Private Retreat and Health Spa' (absolute seclusion guaranteed)
Everything must go!!
All serious offers considered!!
Complain about this postThe reason the Aussies love cricket so much is that they enjoy seeing the English torment themselves which inevitably results in an agonising and cruel sporting death over the course of (usually!) 5 days.
Rugby Union, Rugby League, Football etc are mercifully too quick.
While the English lads were lapping up their gongs, parades, tarts and tea with the Queen, the Aussies were in an SAS boot camp.
It's called overcooking the goose.
Complain about this postForsooth, what is going on with England.
Complain about this postUnderperforming in every area.
Can we please see a change in management
Knighthood for Warne ?
What else can go wrong with team planning.
Is there any gumption to this team.
The time for pride is now - bounce back
Sydney awaits - Do or die - Die is odds-on.
Dear Aggers,
Complain about this postI suggest that Flintofff's men should not be allowed back in the UK - certainly not until they have suffered another six months of contempt from the Oz press and population.
Perhaps they might learn something from it.
The contempt of the English press and population does not appear to move them.
Best regards, John
Excellent summary Aggers.
Let me add that as an Aussie, I believe England have made two fundamental mistakes.
The first was to underestimate how incredibly difficult it was going to be retain the Ashes. The Aust XI was haunted by the 2005 defeat, and wanted a whitewash at ANY cost. By contrast, England arrived prepared for a family summer holiday tour rather than an epic battle.
The second England mistake - in the making at present - is to overestimate how hard it is to play for a draw. Take a leaf out of the Allan Border/Steve Waugh book, if the umpires aren't giving many LBWs - as they weren't in Melb - then stand in front of your stumps and take a few dozen on the body. It's the least your fans deserve.....
Complain about this posthaving watched england cricket the whole of my life and watchng players emerge into the side and play with that much passion just to keep the place because it meant that much to them. watching this test and seeing people in the field looking like they were not interested was very disappointing. tehy need to regain the passion and show the fans they still kno how to fight. hats off to australia tho they have been outstanding and really outplayed us showin why they are the best cricket team in the world!!
Complain about this post"At 09:44 AM on 28 Dec 2006, MZ wrote: Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
Or does she only do that for her English cricket team?"
Grow up you idiotic child and get a life
Complain about this postWell, As i read in one of the earlier comments, another southern hemisphere team has destroyed us in a sport we generated. And i've noticed a trend here.
We make the sport, play it how we created it, then let other countries develop it and improve how it is played.
Since we won the rugby world cup (and even that wasn't good rugby being played), we have completely collapsed, and thats because, we are one of the most complacent sporting nations in the world. We didn't build on it, we sat on it and didn't develop in any department, where every other dominant nation pushed forwards and developed, and changed their game.
Its teh same with the football, however we've never got the chance to win anything, because we're simply never good enough. We struggle against the great sides, because you're plain, boring.
And now the cricket. I was gripped by every game of the 2005 triumph. We deserved to win, just, and we won, just. We weren't the best, and by far, neither were the aussies...
However as soon as that happened, the aussies worked on their game, worked on their team, tactics etc.
We stayed hte same, changed the team only due to injuries, and we are producing adequate, not world class players.
We need to adapt to the changing games that we have created, and change the way we play
Complain about this postMy warmest greetings in these troubled times.
Complain about this postI visited the doctor here in Melbourne.
Had blood and X-RAY tests.
The doctor asked if I was depressed.
(seems to be a standard must-ask question in Australia)
I replied "VERY".
He asked "why".
"Because I am an English cricket supporter".
He nodded and seemed to understand the depth of my depression.
He did remind me of those immortal words from Winston Churchill in THAT speech made in The House of Commons, August 20, 1940.
"Never in the field of human cricket was so many so disappointed and disillusioned by so few"
Whether it be playing low level club cricket, or any sport at junior to veterans standard across the country at any given weekend, all that you can ask of your fellow team mate is that they give their all; play for the team;and even facing defeat or oblivion on the pitch - they fight for each other and let no one down. Thousands of us, with less than a collective ounce of the talent of these cricketers, give it week in week out for our local teams. That is what is so annoying;perplexing and dissapointing for all of us watching. I am sure the England players will take exception to such an accusation, but, believe me -for all of those patriots across the country getting up at 2am each morning, that is all they can see.
Complain about this postIt is now time for Flintoff to stand down as captain just as Botham did. "Freddie" is a big hearted player but I don't think he's captain material. He talks a good game but then he and the whole team fail. Strauss should take over as captain until Vaughn is fit.
Team selection, if it is to be by committee, should include the captain but no other playing member of the squad.
One more thing, as an Englishman I'll be glad to see the back of Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath but as a cricket lover it will be a sad day when they go.
Complain about this postI think that the "rot had set in" long before they arrived in Australia. They had given up the ghost before bowling a single ball in the Ashes.
Poor performances, injuries and non availabilty of players were clear signs. Even Marcus T had the sense to drop out rather than face a certain 5-0 drubbing. Maybe he was not as 'mixed up' as we all thought.
Time to ditch the skipper. Time to ditch management and time to ditch the attitiude of players who are only interested in making money at home rather than playing for their country overseas.
Complain about this postIt seems to me that there are two ways England can go starting next summer. They can put everything into preparing for 2009--selecting youngsters and basing everything on how players might eventually perform against Australia. Alternatively, they can accept the fact that Australia have proven that they are head and shoulders above every other team and that although they may occasionally lose, it is a fluke. It's true they won't have some of their leading players in 2009, but if people are resting all their hopes on an Australian decline I wouldn't count on it.
Alternatively, England can remember that before this series they were ranked second in the world. They can start taking every series as seriously as the Ashes and try to solidify this position. Pick teams for the present instead of worrying too much about the future. For all the years I've supported England, I've heard talk about "blooding" youngsters with a view to Ashes series several years away. Wrong! Next summer there are test matches to be played against India and West Indies, and England should be picking teams to win every one of those tests.
If that means that Vaughan, Trescothick, or Simon Jones comes back into the team or that Nixon might be first choice keeper for now, then so be it even if they may not be likely candidates fro 2009. We have a good core of players and there should be an orderly transition into and out of the team just as Australia does.
And I think that would be far the best way to prepare for the next Ashes.
Complain about this postJamsi(21) takes the words out of my mouth, however, I will be up all night listening to the Sydney test, it's the masochist* in me.
*OED definition of masochist, enjoyment of what appears to be painful or humiliating. Can't argue with that then, given last 4 Tests, one more thrashing should give me something to look forward to if nothing else.
Complain about this postCopper,
Complain about this postThat's all you Kiwi's ever do............pretend to be someone else!
It strikes me that English cricketers never show any real pride in playing for their country. England seems to think that they have a God-given right to beat other sides. And when they lose it can only be because the other side cheated - by playing better. The Oz team showed what real national pride is!
Complain about this postYes, it looks like it will be 5-0 (we Aussies have a good record at the SCG), but if I were English, I wouldn't beat myself up about it too much.
Australia has been there too - anyone remember our woeful performances in the 80s? That prompted a radical rethink of how we prepare players for international competition and how we develop youngsters. This paid obvious dividends. We'll need to draw on that in the future as our more experienced players retire.
But I would be annoyed if nothing comes out of this defeat - if there is no rethink of the strategies and preparation required to win a test series.
Remember, too, that our loss of the Ashes last year really hurt! I mean really hurt. You can't underestimate how determined the team was to get them back. I think that this made an Ashes victory (but not a whitewash) almost inevitable.
Now on to Sydney - hopefully for a win to Australia and Warnie's 1000th international wicket.
Complain about this postTotal shambles since 28 Nov 2006
Complain about this postso.....
Fletcher out
Graveney, Miller out
Harmison, sulking Strauss, treschothick, giles, mahmood, anderson, jones, plunkett all back to county cricket...not good enough to wear the shirt in more ways than one.
2.5 years to get it right.
We must plan for 5-0 at home in 2009.
Nothing else will do...after all who will Punter toss the ball to now?
MZ - she is John Howard's queen - not mine...
Complain about this postQuote
"Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
Or does she only do that for her English cricket team?"
I thought that it was Tony Blair that did that...so he's our Queen not yours!
Complain about this postJames Brown wrote: "Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
I sincerely hope you're not suggesting she should??? Anyway would they want them?
Answer: No - MBE's are for pompus gits
Complain about this postEngland team for 5th Test ?
Andrew Strauss, Geoffrey Boycott, David Gower, Mike Gatting, James T Kirk (capt), Ian Botham, Alan Knott, Fred Flintstone, Barney Rubble, Monty Python and Bob Willis.
Complain about this post12th man Judas Iscariot
While I am English, I have to say that there should be rewards for the total dominance of this Australian side. They have been so dominant in all codes of the game for so long that I have to agree, that there should be Royal recognition for Ricky Ponting and his teammates. They are a truly excellent team and although England have made them look amazing on this tour, they have for so long been the true World Champions. It is sad for English fans to be humiliated so soon after that glorious home Ashes series but hats off to the auld enemy for their determination to make us pay!
Complain about this postI am sorry but the umpires have to take a look at themselves. England when batting have all to often been given LBW but the Australians at the crease have stayed when the technology indicates that they should walk.
I am not saying the scores would be any different but the playing surface has been somewhat less than level in my view. It is sad and rather typically cricket that no one in the England camp or evn the commentators has raised this.
Complain about this postThese England celebrations in 2005.
I seem to remember the defeated Aussie team were on the plane home and missed it all.
I also seem to remember the Aussie celebrating ticket tape style when they won the world cup in 1987.
Nobody lambasted Liverpool in football for celebrating the Champions League in 2005 and even the mighty Aussies themselves-they celebrated a draw at Old Trafford in 2005 like they had just won the world cup with a last ball wicket!
I'm sick of people rubbishing the 2005 achievement. Show some respect.
Complain about this postRight now there's a queue of very talented players waiting to join the Australian team and with the Government's Baby Bonus this has been assured for generations to come.
England, just get used to it and stop whingeing.
What we really want is that Open Topped Bus. We not only have the climate, we obviously have more use for it.
Best Wishes to all for 2007. Stu H. New South Wales.
Complain about this postAt least they will not being getting any gongs from Blair and HRH this time. The fact that when they won the ashes and got awards undermined the honours system more than ever. I suppose those receiving honours don't bother after that, look at Johnny Wotshisname, rugby player, can't remember his name as he hasn't played since being given an honour.
Complain about this postThe usual crowings and gloatings on such websites as this are pretty dull and unattractive. The fact is it was a real achievement to win back the Ashes in 05. The players deserved a little recognition. Let's face it, they get paid a fifth of the amount a mediocre golfer does.
They have failed to impress here in Oz, but who else has done well? The last team to win here was Ambrose/Walsh in 1993....
I am disturbed to hear of poor team spirit, but I am not that surprised. You tour here and everyone is at you. People at the airport tell you are rubbish, stuff gets stolen from dressing rooms and your hotel room is under seige from pranksters. Touring India is actually easier.
Add to that the injuries/illness to batters number 1 and 3 and the best performing bowler of 05, and England were always going to struggle.
They are still Number 2 in the world, and strangely, I think quite well-placed. Add Vaughan, Jones, S. Davies to the mix. Perhaps Fletcher should go now and be replaced by Woolmer or Moody. Play the Windies at home and gain some momentum for 09. All of this could or will easily happen.
Australia will have to rebuild. Langer, Hayden, Gilchrist will be gone too by then. They will be good, because as the only 1st world country where cricket is a mainstream game, they whould be. But they won't be as good.
Complain about this postengland cricketers take heed, you are an embarresment you should be ashamed, the 3 lions should be ripped of your shirts and 3 pussycats put in their placen none of you have the god given right to that shirt you have to earn it.only two of you have earned it so far thats monty and hoggy, the rest of you are playing as if you do not care as you feel assured your place is safe. but let me tell you, we the british paying hardworking public will not tolerate your lacksidasical attitude, and that goes for the ecb the dumb selectors, and fletcher, and freddy i'm sorry but you could not place a field on a subbuteo pitch. swo all of you get of your lazy asses resign or graft to get it right and get it right quickly.
Complain about this postI write from my desk in the office rather than on my way to the MCG to watch another riveting days play of the greatest rivalry in sport between two competitive teams. One test per annum, sold out for 4 days but over in 3.
I agree with you Aggers, please England, at least give a contest in Sydney, show some heart and pride and maybe provide 4 or 5 days of great test cricket.
Complain about this postTo the England Cricket team, YOU NEED AND MUST HAVE ABOVE EVERYTHING
DISCIPLINE!
TEAM DISCIPLINE!
BATTING DISCIPLINE!
BOWLING DISCIPLINE!
FIELDING DISCPILINE!
Above all....................SELF DISCIPLINE!
Stop prancing about like pop stars posing for photos. I don't care if Monty is wicket keeper and Harmison opens the batting. I don't mind if Flintoff is forced to remove his silly tattoos and cannot ponce around in his weightlifting vest for the cameras. We want a team that can win and lose in an adult manner, not a bunch of soccer players.
YOU NEED DISCIPLINE!!!!!!!!! GET IT OR GO AWAY!!!!!
Complain about this postEnglish cricket has been well and truly done over this winter and deservedly so. Freddie said in Brisbane that England would fight Australia toe to toe. Maybe they did occasionally but you're not a good side unless you do it all session, every session, every test. You become a very good side when you can do it series after series, year after year. You become a great cricketing nation when you do not suffer from self-delusion and by accurate analysis and good planning you dominate the game for decades at a time. Sadly, for the game, England are woefully short of reaching this standard. Still, there's always 2009. Does anyone want to place a bet on which country stands the best chance of getting it right?
As an Aussie resident in the UK I am amazed at how easily honours are given out. England team given MBEs in 2005. Surely honours like these need be earned over time and not as the result of a very close series going England's way by such a narrow margin. Has anyone done a comparison of how long Australian cricketers have to go before their skill and success receive recognition by their government?
The ease at which the Ashes have been re-claimed devalues those MBE awards and puts into question the judgement of those responsible.
Complain about this postI honestly believe that England miss Michael Vaughn, not only with respect to his batting but his inspirational captaincy. The ability to inspire the men who lead onto the field is an attribute which must not be discounted.
This series is effectively over, England must now look toward the future, more specifically the next two years building up to the next Ashes. The selectors must seek to build a nexus of players around the likes of Vaughn and Kevin Peterson.
Complain about this postMikeinoz wrote: "all of you get of your lazy asses resign or graft to get it right and get it right quickly."
Complain about this postJust to reassure the England team and management, yes we are that hacked off back here by this embarrassment. Don't expect much of a welcome when you get back.
Chris are you being serious when you say the england team should be measured by playing against weaker teams, what utter rubbish, any sportsmans worth is measursed by playing against the best. you cannot tell players they are brilliant because they beat a team like bangladesh[though on our current form i bet bangladesh are on the phone right now begging to play us] you tell players they are brilliant when you beat the best and then beat them again on their own turf till then they have to keep prooving themselves worthy of a team place. this team was picked not on merit but on the mbes they did not deserve till they had come to oz and beat the aussies here, then all hail the victor.
Complain about this postIt's only a game.
Complain about this postGuys, it's a ball game. It's got nothing to do with 'national pride' or the English or Australian 'character'. If being good at games made you a better person Warney would be a paragon of virtue. As it is, he's just a brilliant bowler. The English Cricket Team (not 'the English') don't have anyone nearly as good. That's why they can't beat the Australian Cricket Team (not 'the Australians'). Enjoy the game on the pitch, cut out the name-calling in the stands.
Complain about this postLet me get this right.
Complain about this postThe English cricket team goes to Australia to play the best team in the world in their own back yard.
They have played twice has many test matches during the previous 12 months as their opponents - and lost most of them.
They don't play any meaningful warm-up matches.
They take as captain a man who is recovering from surgery to his ankle and can only play after injections.
Their opening batsman flies home before a ball is bowled.
Their best fast bowler hasn't played for months and doesn't really want to be away from home at Christmas.
They decide not to play their best spin bowler in the first two tests. Their chosen spin bowler flies home.
Their worst wicket-keeper picks himself for the first three tests.
And we are surprised when it's 4 nil (soon to be 5 nil). We never did stand a chance. We have to live with the fact that we will never beat Australia in Australia during their summer. It's not cricket!
I'm an Aussie but I'm not going to put the boot in. Instead I thought a history lesson might be appropriate as it gives some hope to the vanquished.
While I'm happy we have the Ashes back I'm not going to gloat about a 4-0 scoreline as 1. I don't like one-sided series & 2. I can remember when Australian cricket was at an all-time low for much of the 1980's.
During this time we were on the receiving end of series floggings by (of course) a rampant West Indies, England at home & abroad, & even New Zealand (well they did have Richard Hadlee). Much of our climb out of the depths was of course due to a tough old rooster called Allan Border who had carried our batting for years before finally getting some long overdue support in the 1989 Ashes in England. One of the players on that tour would be a good case study for the kind of resolve required to turn things around.
Stephen Waugh was a bit of a dasher when he first came into the team but was averaging around 25 with the bat before he finally had a couple of breakthrough centuries in England in 89. He then struggled for a couple of years and lost his spot in the team. When he came back he had pulled back on some of his attacking tendencies and decided that he was not going to lose his spot in the team again and was going to give the opposition bowlers nothing. The result was that he became one of the toughest batsmen to dismiss and was averaging around 90 over the next 3-4 years.
It's all about attitude boys.
Lesson over :-)
Complain about this postWhilst it was always going to be a tall order to rekindle the efforts of the 2005 Ashes, I find it hard to fathom how Englands poor performance on this visit is less competitive and cohesive than last time we were down under in 2003. Injuries aside - is it time to question the ability of the England managment to extract the best from this talented but faultering squad ?
Complain about this postRugby, football, now Cricket! England comprehensively crushed. It's enough to make all Celts welcome in the new year in style.
Complain about this postI totally agree with you agger's things have to change and fast for the team to recover from this last thrashing. The Aussies can sent a whitewash and like a lion in the middle of a kill I don't think they'll let up!
Complain about this postWhat really annoys me is that neither Freddie or Duncan has come out and admitted it's gone wrong, all we hear is that'll be better next test, sorry chaps but myself and all the other England supporters don't believe a word of it. All we get are these sound bites, it's like hearing politicians speaking (the only spin England seem to be generating at the moment are at press conferences!)and as for the bowling plans fiasco, well if they wanted to look like fools they did a fine job! I do hope the Aussie press had some good captions for that story.
Basically the whole team set up needs attention, they need to accept it's not working get back to basics and then perhaps they'll be some pride in English Cricket. Let's face it if they play at their best and give Australia a game but end up loosing to the better team as a fan you can accept it, but this soon to be whitewash is really disappointing. I feel sorry for the fans who paid allot of money to go over there to see it, they should ask for a refund!
I bet a million bucks Wisden will not sell a tenth of the copies it sold last year
Complain about this postWell there is no doubt that England have lost the Ashes and may well lose all five tests. Somehow though I can't help feeling there is more to this tour than meets the eye. I am not prepared to say anything bad about the lads untill this tour is over and people have a chance to reflect what went wrong with Englads performance.
Complain about this postEngland keep saying with hindsight it's easy to say this and that. Funny how most picked up we had the wrong man as captain, out of form players, poor preparation, a coach with his head in the sand and that we've been going downhill from the day after the Ashes victory.
You get the feeling that the winning Ashes team watch the Ashes victory DVD every week and forget that to maintain it, you have to work hard. The Ashes victory was sweet in 2005 but the McGrath injury was the turning point if we are honest.
Throwing in the towel though is quite shameful.
Complain about this postFrom a Kiwi that always enjoys Aussies losing, I have to take my hat off to a really great Okker team - England aren't that bad, its the Aussies who are in a league of their own. Monty P should have been playing from day one. The up-coming 1-days with NZ will be interesting.
Complain about this postI remember lots of noise to get rid of the test status from BD when they lost couple matches in 3-4 days, well, …….. you can’t say the same thing to the “2nd best team in the world”! England might choose to follow Zimbabwe, a self imposed isolation from the international cricket for couple months to regroup itself!! Other option might be to play couple of matches against Zimbabwe or Kenya to regain its confidence!!!
Complain about this postIt should not be overlooked that, besides Hayden and Symonds, the other 9 Aussie batsmen scored 110 all together (not knocking the batsmen, just stating the fact). The victory is nowhere near as clear-cut or convincing as the final score and the general doom and gloom that has followed would make it seem. Hayden and Symonds, having each benefitted from a generous interpretation of the LBW rule, also thereby made it through to be batting during the one period in the game when the pitch didn't help the bowlers.
That's not to take anything away from the Aussies, but the story is not just one of bad batting and bowling by England and the legendary Aussie 'mental toughness' which was so strangely ineffective in 2005. I find some of the twaddle being spouted to be disrespectful to the abilities of both teams. The Aussies (given their ages!) could surely hardly have played any better than they have done (hats off to Clark, in particular, again today) and England have come up just a little short, not helped by not having had a settled team due to so many absences from the 2005 side. Sure there are plenty of lessons for England to learn, but the future is still rosy.
Complain about this postNo pride. No passion. No self respect. Sack every last one of them from the coach down and make them compete to be in the team.
Complain about this postEveryone seems to have said everything that needs saying so, just two things:
1. I was at the Gabba ( there was still hope -
then!) An old Aussie asked me what I was doing
there - he said I'd cross the road to watch a
hanging but I would'nt travel half way around
the world to watch a flogging - he also told me
half an hour before that England would'nt be
following-on - under any circumstances - it was
to be our first little lesson in eating aussie dirt.
2. I agree with some of the others in that I
must be a massochist in that I still wake up at 0200 - a habit of very many years - even leaving the worst nightmares - to wake up to even more horror on the wireless from Sir G B + J A.
Ever the optimist, I'll forget this tour and hope
Complain about this postfor better in the future. New Captain + selectors please!
well england you have learned a great lesson you were great when you won the ashs but it went to your heads so if you go home and look ay your selfs you never gave it a go australia on the outher hand came home after louseing the ashs and went to work and that is what you have to do not send out second rate players as australia as a second team that at the moment could bet you go home and start to work for the next ashs and then you can hold your heads up high again you never had a chance with the team you have now so sack the one in crarge and start again kind regards to all of you and a happy new year william watkins
Complain about this postInteresting to read the comments about contemporary English cricketers being feted as pop stars and lacking the fight and resolve of previous generations. One would be forgiven for thinking that such capitulations would never have happened in Ashes series of yesteryear. But, wait a minute, didn't the 1920/1 England side include the nation's greatest ever batsman, Jack Hobbs, those outstanding all-rounders Rhodes and Woolley, plus such redoubtable competitors as Hendren, Makepeace, Fender, Douglas and Strudwick? Thrashed 5-0. And what about the class of 1958/9, hard-bitten heroes of the post-war championship which boasted a bowling line-up of Trueman, Statham, Tyson, Lock, Laker, Bailey and Loader and a heavenly batting trio of Cowdrey, May and Graveney? Pulped 4-0. No-one ever accuses players from either of these teams of lacking gumption, yet they were, man for man, considerably more talented those from the current England side. So, let's get some perspective; disappointing as this series may have been, it's a long long way from being England's most disasterous, or indeed most surprising Ashes defeat Down Under.
Complain about this postall the players plus the back room staff should be ashamed of themselves for this spineless exhibition over the four tests.
They all need to take a look at themselves and think seriously about where they are going and worry less about all the add on's they have been creaming since the UK series.
I feel really sorry for all those fans who travelled to Australia and the stupid ones here who stayed to watch this appalling show.
I could find you eleven players from Lancashire league's who would have more spirit and committment than this lot.
Sky must be ruing their deal for the ECB as this has cost many many fans, watch next year's test's gates, I for one will not attend the Old Trafford test.
,
Complain about this postCan you tell me, how many Australian cricketers play in English County cricket and how many English players play in Australian State Cricket, i think there might be a bit of an imballance there. Our top players should play at least three months in top compettition in Australia- where the weather is such that you can play all year round , thank you , gerry killen , Brisbane .
Complain about this postI fully agree with Jonathan Agnew's comments. Who is running the team? KP seems to do what he wants! Did he have Christmas lunch at Warne's house? Why did the management allow him and the others to skip lunch on a very special day? The team needs leadership and to some the desire to perform does not match the income from marketing and promotional activities! We are all to blame to allow such individuals to become celebraties after doing what they are already well paid to do!
Complain about this postTime for change at the helm and lets allow the system to run the team and not the sponsors and marketing men!
just gotta love the culture of excuses and whingers. ya.. aus didn't win it but poms lost it... gotta love that attitude. One thing for certain, and a comfort, an english team will always win the "english premier league"..(duh!!)..hahah with foreign players of course.. go england!!!
Complain about this postUse of the term 'Team Spirit' is sorely misunderstood by some of the contributors, as if it were something that may be plucked from thin air, or generated without cost.
Complain about this postWhatever one wishes to call it, 'Team Spirit' is a reflection of group standards and the discipline necessary to maintain these. The basis for this is a willingness of each individual to contribute their best effort for the greatest good, whatever the personal cost might be. For example, watching an opening batsman get pasted with short deliveries by the opposing quick bowlers, without flinching or surrendering his wicket sends a clear message not only to the opposition, but also to his colleagues: 'nothing less is acceptable.'
Dont think for a moment that there is gloating down here. Nor are we bagging the pom team. Rather, its just that we know that a champion team will always beat a team of champions.
Complain about this postAll this chest-beating and wailing didnt happen when we lost the Ashes in 2005. It was just a determination to never let it happen again. Coach wasnt pilloried. Captain wasnt abused in the press. Even the selectors werent criticised.
The English are yet to discover that there is little distance between a pat on the back and a kick in the ass...but it means a lot.
So order has been restored. Things are back on an even keel.
England's victory in the 2005 Ashes series was deceptively flattering. Whilst they did then undoubtedly have a better performing team than in the current series, it should not be forgotten that a large part of their victory was down to very narrow margins - including some diabolical umpiring decisions, fortunate toss wins (and Ponting's poor decision to put them in at Edgbaston) and several nail-bitting finishes. By contrast, the margin of the Australian victories in this series has been staggerling comprehensive. The simple fact is that England are not in the same league as this Aussie side and it remains to be seen if they will be competitive even in the absence of McGrath and Warne...
Complain about this postAfter losing the ashes in Perth all we had to play for was pride, but I'm afraid we can take no pride in a thoroughly dismal performance in Melbourne. To be knocked over for 160 twice in three days on a pretty decent pitch is inexcusable and equally to have australia on the ropes at 84-5 and let them put 400 on the board was a pretty hopeless effort.
This tour has been a disaster on and off the field, poor preparation, selection blunders and weak performances on the field.
I take no pleasure from having to post the above, I love cricket and always want England to do well, winning the Ashes in 2005 was the most wonderful sporting moment in decades, but we urgently need the selectors,coach and the players to be doing their job properly if we are going to reverse our decline.
Complain about this postEngland needs top class right hand off-spinner and leg spinner to meet world standards of cricket and win matches especially on turning wickets.
Complain about this postSelect the best players for the match and get a pep up talk each day before and after the game.
Get back to basics, bat and pad even after the century and bowl your heart out to get the wickets.
Beating the Australians in 2005 you were just lucky. Luck does not play to your favour all the time. Accept it and realise that it is skills and industry win games. The records of the English side will show that they were mediocre in their subsequest test matches with other countries after beating the world's best side. There will be a lot of salvage to be done for the future years for English cricket.
Arthur
I simply cannot believe that England can have plumbed the depths in such an abysmal way. Flintoff is no captain - he is a thick, scruffy buffoon with a lamentable bowling action who has been over-promoted as the result of a few slogger's innings. This useless bunch of under-prepared nonentities got what they deserved. How I yearn for someone like Ted Dexter, Brearley, Illingworth etc who could really get under the Aussies' skins. We have been out-thought as well as outplayed. Thank God I didn't waste any money going to watch this pitifully embarrassing bunch of clowns.
Complain about this postI hope, but I doubt, the England Management will admit their mistake in appointing Flintoff as Captain, in this series. I fear that a 5-0 drubbing, as it is surely going to be, will severely affect his confidence. Great player that he is, he simply is not equipped mentally to lead the national side;Strauss would have made a far better fist of this series, and possibly have retained the Ashes.
Complain about this postA lot of people here are stating that England are making Australia look better then we are. Didn't the reverse happen last series? Ditto the umpiring decisions. The only difference is whereas you only won 2-1 we are looking at a 5-0 whitewash.
Cheer up though you've lost to a team that has won 11 straight test matches and not lost one since the 4th test of the 2005 series AND are the holders of almost every possible trophy (if not all) available to them in BOTH forms of the game. No shame in that :)
Complain about this postWell done to the Australians. However, I must say that the schedules need to be looked at again. Australia, before this series, had not played a test in what, 5 months? And after this series, won't be playing one for 11 months...
England, when was the last time they had a break? The demands are just too heavy these days.
M.
Complain about this postEngland were lucky in 2005, but in any match, atleast 5/6 players performed and overall all 11 guys did well in the series in there roles apart from Bell. this time, atmost 1/2/3 players did well in any match and that is why they are losing. I am also perplexed at this latest dismal effort. I am seriously thinking whether there is something fishy going on. Is it fixed? Any takers.
Complain about this postFair suck of the sav!!!...
Serves you right England (team, management etc) you fluked it in 2005 and in 2006 youse got thrashed. So get off the grass lads and get a life and get on with it. Don’t give us these excuses of referees, lbw’s, if this if that!!! Just get on with it and there is always a next time.
Just remember one of your most famous PM’s words…...
”This is not the end” It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning” cheers lads from an Aussie dinkie die supporter!!!...
Happy New Year...to all our English Lads...Cause all us Ockers Are Having a Beauty!!!
Complain about this postCome back Vaughan? Lets let Freddie do what he can in Sydney and hand the reins back to a fully fit Vaughan afterwards ..... Freddies a great player, but he is not the Captain we need.
Complain about this postWill Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
Or does she only do that for her English cricket team?
Well MZ, the question of honours (and they will be Australian ones at that) will be a matter for the Australian Prime Minister and the Queen's Representative in Australia, the Govenor-General. And if you hail from Oz, you should have known that.
Complain about this postAfter each defeat, Flintoff promises England will show more mettle and resolve in the next Test...(yeah, sure, Freddie). He's sounding more and more like the Black Knight in Monty Python's 'Search for the Holy Grail'.
England should have selected a different team, so say the experts. My view is that the only (slender) chance England might have had would have been to select 11 specialist batsmen, with Rudi Koetzer as 12th man (Rudi has been Australia's secret weapon). Beyond that, the England Management should have negotiated three-day Tests, instead of five-day games. England might then have managed to draw, although, after Melbourne, I have my doubts.
It's been a hugely disappointing, and embarrassing, Ashes series. Do the English players now return their MBEs?
Complain about this postIt will be interesting to see how Australia fair without Warne and M cGrath. Rest assured it will make no difference because unlike England, the Australians never give up .
Complain about this postJust been watching Sir Geoffrey on the highlights & as he said there's only 1 way there'll avoid 5-0,PRAY FOR RAIN !! And before there's any complaints about dodgy umpiring decisions what about 2005? Did anyone bother to watch the Kasprowicz dismissal after all the excitement had died down at Edgbaston? Still look on the bright side the World Cup's coming up & if in Test Matches England were playing like Chelsea or Man Utd in 1 dayers they've been playing like Watford (sorry Watford,I know you've won 1 out of 19 games so it is a bit unfair)
Complain about this postWhinge, whinge, whinge, excuse, excuse, exciuse.
Why on earth some Australians refer to the English as "whinging Poms" is, for the moment, quite beyond me.
As for MBEs, Australian governments no longer recommend the awarding of imperial honours (though HM, Elizabeth, by Grace of God Queen of Australia and her other Realms and Territories, could decide to offer awards to members of the Australian team off her own bat, so to speak). The team are eligible to receive ACs, AOs, AMs or OAMs.
Complain about this postGood Thoughts Aggers
Instead of the Press bites from the Team management being positive, we had a good session, we'll be better in Perth/Melbourne/Sydney, they should be saying we are getting thumped here and we are going to learn what is wrong and do something about it!!
Complain about this postengland went defencive far too early! england need vaughan back sooner rather than later and what is it with flintoff praising the aussies all the time!? we basicly gave the urn back 2 them with some crazy batting and mad bowling but england will bounce back 2 many good players in there squad not to
Complain about this postThis type of performance just makes me hope it will be easier to get tickets next time since all the new-found fans desperate to support some winners will be hopefully jumping on whatever other minor successful bandwagon is going around then. Have another g&t and experience the perverse enjoyment of seeing your team put to the sword (repeatedly) but don't worry, its only a game and one like most others Eng are crap at so don't get too upset.
Complain about this postThis was inevitable, as the Aussies took it on the chin and thought after 2005, 'We need to sort this', wheras the English thinking was 'we can do this ... easy.'
2 big mistakes
1 Never underestimate the opposition. They wil always be better especially after being beaten.
2 Never overestimate your own strengths. This was big!!
England were devoid of:
a A swing bowler in form. A spinner in consistent form. a batsman in consistent form.
b A hunger to win
C A Captain with inspiration. Freddie had enough to worry about with fitness, bowling, and batting. In the abscence of Mr Vaughan, my captain would have been Strauss.
Fair play to the Aussies, they are the best. As for ENGLAND, they need to get over 5-0 in Sydney (it will happen) and rebuild for the ashes in 2 years time. No complacency, go in there angry AND SORT IT!!!
Complain about this postSome England and Australian fans need to calm down, with regard to last years Ashes series, and the current one.
The 2005 series was exceptionally close, but probaly should have ended with a 2-2 result. Australia was clearly complacent and their appalling fielding (18 dropped catches?) reflected this.
The two tests that Australia lost coincidentally (or not) saw McGrath unable to play due to injury.
The Australian batting line up was completely unable to deal with reverse swing under overcast English skies.
The pitches were prepared in an effort to negate the spin of Shane Warne (so lets please not hear anymore complaints about doctored Sub-Continent pitches) .
The umpiring was abysmal and, as is normally the case, favoured the home side. (I imagine that Damien Martyn will never send Steve Bucknor a Christmas Card again!)
The balance of LBW decisions in the 2006-7 series, particularly when Hoggard has been bowling, has been poor.
Hayden was clearly out in the Australian innings and probably Symonds too, but so was Collingwood in England's first innings and Cook in their second.
England overreacted to the Ashes win in 2005 (the open-top bus ride, the awards etc) but it is understandable due to the length of time it took to regain them.
Everything and every player in that 2005 England side worked well, and the side jelled.
The two sides took different things away from that 2005 result. Australia received the kick in the backside it probably needed. It was becoming too arrogant and complacent. The poaching of Troy Cooley and the return of Mike Young (the US fielding coach) have vastly improved the side.
Conversely England appeared to have stagnated or at the very least believed they have reached the summit and didn't need to continue to improve. A bad mental attitude to have going into an Ashes series in Australia.
Playing in the, generally, hot Australian conditions is sapping and England's preparations can be called into question. However, to criticise the Champions Trophy as the wrong build-up is interesting as Australia happily went along and won it prior to returning to the Ashes. A fallacious argument I feel.
England should, however, have played more realistic four-day games against Australian state sides.
The loss of Vaughan, Jones and Treschothick was a major blow and any side would have been hard-pressed to cover such important losses.
The lack of fight shown by England since the second test has, however, been disappointing. Pietersen demonstrated in the final test of the 2005 series that he can construct a saving innings. Unfortunately for England he, and any of the other batsmen have been unable to repeat that feat in Australia.
As almost everyone has commented, KP needs to be moved up the order.
Strauss has clearly been displeased with the decision to replace him with Flintoff. I agree with the majority of comments below that this was the wrong decision, but Strauss does not appear to have helped Flintoff when Freddie was floundering with his lack of tactical knowledge. A good team player does everything in his power to help the team, it does not seem as if Strauss has done this.
The future isn't too bleak for England though. Cook is a gem and will play 100 tests. Monty will play a similar number. Joyce will be good, and Broad, as several people have mentioned, needs to be included in the future.
Get rid of Harmison, Jones, Giles, Bell, Anderson and Read.
None of them are up to the task of world-class cricket. Talentwise Harmison is, but he is too fragile mentally.
Australia is going to loss the bulk of its team over the next few years, starting with two of the best bowlers the world has ever seen.
Hayden and Langer will also be gone by 2009, as will Gilchrist.
To win in 2009 England needs to recapture the passion it demonstrated in 2005, or emulate the passion that the Australian side has shown throughout this series.
Roll on 2009 and a 3-2 Australia win!
Complain about this postThis is what England should do on their return; they should be taken from Heathrow straight to Trafalgar Square in an open bus to do the shame-parade. However, Monty and/or Sajid can be 'dropped out', at Selector's discretion. Mr Vaughan should be lurking in the background around in Oxford Circus.
All players should receive CBE (Cricket for Beginners' Education).
The Game plan should discussed behind closed doors should be projected on the BiG screen for everyone to see.
Duncan should be given an open sack !
And when you talk about the Ashes now, you can say this was the year when England handed away the Ashes.
Press can now stop, thank God, about the Ashes that were won and are now gone. Commentators and press alike, should stop 'biggin up' every single detail in England camp. When a team is below normal, its not good, when its good then its not the best. We need to stop making our players like some sort of gods. They have not played decent cricket since the Ashes were won. So stop praising them until they start defeating all different types of teams, home and away, and not just the Aussie and the Ashes, and not just in Test matches.
Complain about this postI dot know why every body is suprised with the way England have played. The warning was surely on the wall. Dont forget they lost 2-0 to Pakistan last winter and if that series wa smade up of 5 test matches they would have lost 4-0. Expectations were badly managed and the ashes win couple of years back was partly due to Austrailian complacency.The celebrations were overdone and the public hype was unbelievable that was only going to end in tears.
Complain about this postIts a bit like a premiership football team of today taking on a team from the pre-war. To succeed in sport the team needs to be a "team" and on top of that needs to be physically ruthless and tigerlike. The current England team were 'whistling past the graveyard', what-ho chaps off to Ausieland to thwack leather with willow! It doesnt stand up against a determined organised outfit. The Aussies were in bootcamp before the Ashes and i think England need something like that now.
Complain about this postWell, I could not have said it better myself, Aggers!
Complain about this postI particularly agree about the aloofness of Kevin Pietersen. I have met most of the members of the England cricket teams on several occasions and KP has caught the bug of the modern celebrity - i.e. got to big for his boots.
Come on England, pull yourselves together as a team and instill some passion into your game!
Jonathan
Its cricket, it ain't important. OK it gives you a decent living, but to us normal folks its a game, a bit less fun than conkers, perhaps a bit more sophisticated than marbles, nowhere near as spectacular as womens beach volley ball, but, like nurdling or rhubarb thrashing - it is only a game.
Ian
Complain about this postAnything less than a 5-0 whitewash will be a poor reflection on just how the series has unfolded.
Complain about this postFlintoff is a poor captain, his field placings for Monty Panesar on day two the most recent case in point. He also has set a poor example with the bat. Some of his dismissals have been attrocious.
Harmison does not appear to be a man who even enjoys cricket.
Pietersen plays cricket for Pietersen.
Body language yesterday suggested that it was all way too much effort to try and salvage the game (and some pride). Wicket-keeper excepted.
With Rod Marsh and Troy Cooley both now gone, I have serious concerns about the future of English cricket, at least in the short-term.
Bring on Bangladesh. At least they play to their ability.
I fail to see how Fletcher can continue in his role. His muddled thinking of making Flintoff captain , playing Giles ahead of Monty and bringing over a team so unprepared is beyond forgivness. Sack him and make Botham the coach for the last test... at least he will install some pride. Also change the Captain for the last test.. Look to the future and worrying about now
Complain about this postTo MZ your Queen?
As a pommie in OZ i see no British falgs waved on australia day and in 10 years have not heard 'God Save The Queen' sung anywhere - do you pay for her? No!
You however pay a lot of money to train sportmen so a country of 19 million can dominate every sport, smacks of the old USSR.
Not taking anything from the aussie players, you cant buy the kind of pride they carry onto a cricket pitch, but you also can't expect MBE's you must be deranged to carry such sour thoughts when your team reigns supreme.
Complain about this postLets face it the England Captain is poor, very poor and his own form as suffered.
In this game if the leader is poor the men suffer you will never beat Australia with a poor Captain.
Remove Flintoff as captain immediately.
Complain about this postThe ECB will investigate the "leak"? Start by firing whoever was in charge of the back room. For want of a $50 printer hooked up to a laptop you send your plans to the opposition's techs for printing? Let's get real, no-one in any kind of business would dream of dong such a thing. The Aussies treated this as a war, quite rightly given the way England lorded it for the last 15 months odd, and would have cut their own throats before letting anyone from the England side near their plans.
Complain about this postAverages don't lie.
Of the Oz batsmen 7 have scored a ton. England's just 3. Bowlers also, Oz has 4 with double figures at 14, 15 and 2 with 21. England just 2 at 10 and 13.
I rest my case!
Complain about this postEven though Trescothick, Vaughan and S.P. Jones were missing from the squad and Harmison, Giles, Hoggard and Flintoff were below parr coming into this test series the Aussies winning back the Ashes, in my opinion, was never in doubt on their own turf.
Complain about this postWarne and McGrath are such amazing attacking bowlers that they have always been a threat to English batting. I believe that there was complacency on the part of this English squad and they did not prepare sufficiently for such a serious encounter with a superbly determined Aussie team. English cricket must learn from this humiliating experience.
What really gets up my nose is the way the Beeb's opening titles for their 1pm highlights package still shows all the Great English Successes from last time! Talk about rubbing it in.
Complain about this postWhy play the last match? Bring the sorry load of bums home and make them get real jobs as they need to find something else to do, they cant play cricket.
Complain about this postSomone please, please beg the selectors to drop Mahmood from the England squad.
He scores ducks with the bat and centuries with his bowling.
Complain about this post349 At 03:28 PM on 28 Dec 2006, Mouth of the Wear wrote:
"In summary England are not as bad as they look now, and Australia are certainly not as good as the score suggests."
264 At 01:28 PM on 28 Dec 2006, It's a laugh wrote:
"...there is a lot to be said for parallel universes"
Complain about this postSounds as though you've been exploring a few too many of your own. Yes, It's a laugh if it weren't so bloody true
Is Andrew Flintoff the worst captain ever?
He is pretty shameless too. He was giggling away after going 4-0 down in the series.
How many matches did it take the selectors to sack Ian Botham from the England captaincy?
Complain about this postJust how bad are this england team....very in my opinion the lack of backbone and ability is all too obvious...tactically the aussies left them for dead...once again the burden of captaincy has weighed heavily on a great player...anyone remember what it did to Botham???...the open top bus throgh London...slightly over the top and now looking rather foolish...too many of englands players fail to perform with any consistency...a team lead by people who are just not up to the job...there have been too many failures against too many opponents...however credit where it's due the australians show what teamwork is about when one fails with bat or ball another steps up to take up the fght....andrew symonds is both sides of this coin....england have one more chance to show the cricketing world what their made of...this will not be be a 'dead rubber' as far as aussies are concerned.....OBE's all round for the aussies your majesty p.s. excellent coverage of the series by BBC radio made the nights pass much quicker.
Complain about this postWell, to me it's clear that Australia are just a much better side.
It's particularly true in the batting. Compare the top five of both teams: Langer, Hayden, Ponting, Hussey and Clark vs Strauss, Cook, Bell, Collingwood, and Petersen and there is no comparison.
This wears on the bowlers. They work hard and get a breakthrough with the openers and who comes in? Ponting, perhaps the best batsman in the world. Then another breakthrough and you get Mr. Cricket, who has been unbelievable.
On the other side, if the Australians get a wicket, they get Bell. They get another and they are thinking one or two more loose shots and we're into the tail.
The bowling has been more even.
Complain about this postWas that Kevin Pietersen I saw at the Australian Immigration Office this morning picking up an 'Application to Immigrate' form.
If that was so, I think the English schoolboys cricket team had better get into training for the Ashes series in 2009.
Complain about this postWhat an abject disaster. Why did it happen? Go back 12 months to the anointing of the ridiculous Flintoff chav as Sports Personality. English cricket fell on the sword of it's own tabloid hype of 2005. The disturbing thing is the players believed the hype. The likes of Flintoff and Pietersen more interested in Hello Magazine than preparing for the defence of the Ashes. This series was a accident waiting to happen. Take a bow, British tabloid hype.
Complain about this postThe only crumb of comfort I can find in this whole debarcle is the fact that winning at sport is the only thing Australia, as a country, contributes to the world. Australia offers nothing in terms of art, science or literature. To quote the greatest All-rounder of all time (Botham) the only culture Austrlia has is in their yoghurt.
Complain about this postAs an England supporter for over 50 years I am disappointed with England's loss.
It also looks like the British Metropolitan police need to be educated as to what the game of cricket is. Living in the USA I depend on the BBC and my English paper to keep me updated on what is going on in England. I was both horrified and amused to read in the paper that a police woman actually stopped and questioned a cricket fan in London for having in his possession a cricket ball which was considered a weapon by the officer. The fan was warned and sent on his way. What if he had a bat in his hand? I hate to think of the consequences. This would never have happened a decade or two ago in England.
What has the above to do with England's loss? Perhaps nothing! I hope the above though does not suggest that England is beginning to become a nation of ignoramuses when it comes cricket.
Complain about this postCecil
USA
Dear English bretheren,
Complain about this postYou're not the only ones who might feel let down by your team's egregious performance. As an Australian who is well sick of the gloating, sledgeing, hair-gelling, sex-texting, smug and gormless Australian 11, I was truly hoping England would follow up on the 2005 Ashes victory. Anything, ANYTHING, to arrest the ballooning mega-egos of my countrymen. It seems to me that all humility and spostmanship is gone from Australian cricket. The papers over here are chock-full of Ponting, Warne, Hayden, McGrath et al merrily waxing lyrical about what a rare and talented bunch of gladiators they are. The press is pretty sickening, too. Yesterday the ruffian sex-pest Warne was variously described as "an historic figure", a "hero", "immortal," and, my favourite, "a genius." Surely the description "really good leg spinner" would have sufficed. Please, please don't turn your backs on the English team. Support them and help them rebuild for the next time ... Australia really needs it.
Just a few comments on leadership from a military perspective that might have some validity in this situation (although I doubt anyone will read them at this late stage):
i) 'Train hard, fight easy'. There is still time before Sydney, get the guys out in the nets and test them. Don't molly coddle players at this stage, get them ready for the next onslaught.
ii) Don't pick your point man as commander. He should be concentrating on getting in amongst the enemy not the internal team dynamics etc. We all want to see Freddie doing what he does best- fighting toe to toe in the trenches not engaged in tactics.
iii) Do not trust men that do not not support others. Strauss has not played responsibly (in fact Boycs quite rightly commented that he looked like he was trying to thrown his wicket away). I think he needs to redeem himself as a player and a man before he is considered again to captain his country- he will have his day again but must learn his lessons first .
If there is a temporary change of captain at this stage (to allow Freddie to get on the front line) it should go to Colly.
iv) Selection, especially on tour, should consider 'character' (how well players perform when there team are doing badly/ they are out of personal form/ the enemy are in their faces) rather than simply 'ability'. Get an ex player (or war veteran) in to talk about that.
v) Real fans are still rooting for the lads (good on the Barmy Army- many around the world are with you every ball) and I know that deep down they want to give us a win. The structure and systemic aspects of the English game can wait a week or two. For now we have to get behind the guys in the trenches and wish them on ball by ball to a famous victory in Sydney. ENGLAND 'TIL WE DIE!!
vi) Well done Aussies this time enjoy your success, but don't sleep too easy, we can have you in Sydney, and if you didn't like the parties in 05 then stand by for 09 when we get the urn back!!!
Complain about this postWhy Australia WON the Ashes:
Complain about this postsydney morning herald 29/12/06 Ken Symonds(Andrew's dad) "we tried local cricket but it wasn't testing enough. So we would drive (to townsville) 175km there and back every saturday when he was nine and it all started then."
England won the 1978-79 Ashes series against Australia. England won five test matches and Australia won one test match:
1st Test (Brisbane) — England won by 7 wickets - [1]
2nd Test (Perth) — England won by 166 runs - [2]
3rd Test (Melbourne) — Australia won by 103 runs - [3]
4th Test (Sydney) — England won by 93 runs - [4]
5th Test (Adelaide) — England won by 205 runs - [5]
6th Test (Sydney) — England won by 9 wickets - [6]
Complain about this postOh what lovely memories those were.But what I do recall is all the aussie whinging that went on about their team, so come on boys your no different from anybody else when it comes to whinging. I think 90% of posters on this board agree that Australia were a class above us in this series which is something I dont recall being reciprocated in the 78/79 series. But people have seen that this England team have underperformed in comparison to 2005 and do have a right to put their reasons on why this might have happened.
Firstly, let me congratulate the Aussie team: they are hungrier and more potent than England - and any other team, too, in their current incarnation. They played well enough to deserve their win, for sure.
Secondly, the England team selection was abysmal. Any last vestiges of team spirit were torn to shreds by the stick-to-last-Ashes-winners formula overtaking playing those who had recently been in the team and doing well for England.
That England capitulated in one innings in each test and so badly in tests 2 & 4 obviously does not help. England have to look at these two aspects immediately and learn like Australia did after their Ashes defeat.
Coaches are useful in this modern game. Those who keep saying "in my day...." are really clinging to the past. That said, coaches have a sell-by date and Fletcher has reached his. England must also, however, look at the reasons for both Troy Cooley AND Rod Marsh leaving as they were certainly big influences on getting England into a position to take the Ashes last time round. EWCB / MCC would do well to eat humble pie and bring them back.
Note, however, that not all Australians would make great coaches just because they are Aussie. Or whatever nation, really.
My main point, however, is that the ICC have a number of things to look at from this series as well as the England-Pakistan series. Among them is the relationship between umpires both on- and off-field. To my mind, there appears to be a clear "leader-and-led" hierarchy: experienced-and-less-experienced if you prefer.
Either way, I am not sure that the system operates as a team. Maybe it is due to hubris, maybe it is just the way human hierarchies work, but it seems to me from the ball-tampering incident in the Pakistan series and the shall-we-go-off-for-rain-or-not decisions in this one indicate that perhaps there is a little too much power invested in one umpire over the other. How the off-field umpire fits in is anybody's guess, but they could well be utilised more in such disputes, surely?
A much more sour plate, however, is the issue of bias in umpires. Again looking over whole series, not just individual matches, there appears to be bias rearing its head. I would suggest it is mainly in favour of the home team. It is highly likely that out of ten or so LBW appeals per side in this match alone, Australia gets four given and England none, that this is statistically significant.
A case for third umpire assistance here, maybe?
England probably got the rub of the green in the last Ashes series overall, as like as not in the Pakistan series, too; this time round it was clearly Australia, with both the LBWs over the series and Strauss' three innings brought to an early close, among other things.
Complain about this postThe upshot is, there will always be bias in any given set-up of ajudication; the challenge is to minimise it. This is the challenge that the ICC must face. Or ignore it and risk the game running to farce.
I have to reiterate that England cannot challenge Australia on their turf without experienced and in-form batsmen. England sorely misses the experience of Thorpe, Vaughan and especially Ramprakash. Ramps at age 37 has been England's most prolific county batsman -way ahead of Thorpe who has been on the same team, facing the same bowlers. I hope Ramps is considered for the summer vs WI before we lose his great talent to showbiz!
Complain about this postDear Hendo in North Sydney
Get A Life and jump off the harbor bridge!!!...
Or I get it...You must be an English supporter posing as an Aussie? You have a very short memory my friend!!! What about all the slurring, innuendoes, lies that the British papers headlined in 2005?....You have got to be kidding me!!!
Complain about this postI can't help but wonder about the way England went about their tour preparation, 'down under'. Insufficient preparation time in Australia has also made life impossible for them. The management and tour organisers have really shortchanged ALL spectators because of this
Complain about this postBut more than anything there appears to be a lack of cohesion in the team, which is a shame for Flintoff who appears to be a nice bloke. Something wrong in the team management structure as well and the team managers themselves need to take a long hard look at themselves!
They have tried as individuals but as a team have failed and the umpiring in the fourth test would be enough to try even a patient man. The LBW's they should have got and then the blokes concerned went on to big scores which turned the match around.
I'm glad we have won but I can't help but feel a bit sorry for your lads who have tried and failed this time. I'm an Aussie but I feel shortchanged by the cricket administrators who have organised this tour.
Having watched the Perth and Melbourne tests live, it's the John Cleese quotation from Clockwise that keeps going round my head: "it's not the despair. I can cope with the despair. It's the hope I can't stand." The hope of having them 84-5 in Melbourne, the hope of getting them all out for 244 in Perth. The hope of Cook and Strauss constantly making strong starts before one of them getting out at about the 40-run mark.
There still remains, however, the hope that we'll thrash them in 2009. No Langer, no Hayden, no Warne, no McGrath, no Gilchrist.
Complain about this postNick Nick - I am sure that anyone that used to suffer from stomach ulcers that have now a way to get rid of them thanks to some Australians (two of which got Nobel Prizes for it) wouldn't agree with you. Or burns victims that have some relief due to spray on skin that Aussies also played a part in devising.
It sounds like some dummy spitting generalisations on your part to me. (Post 588)
Complain about this postThere is a wonderful moment in Hitchcock's film "Rebecca" when a troubled looking Olivier is asked by Joan Fontaine, "What's the matter dear?"
Olivier throws down his newspaper with disgust: "The Australians are beating England at cricket, again!"
Chorus:
Complain about this postAgain and again and again and again......
Now that poor old Freddy has been fed to the wolves and done his best captaining what was a badly coached and divided team, I suppose Vaughan will now come out of hiding ( sorry injury) and attempt to take back the captaincy. I believe that Flintoff will learn from this and gain some inner fire. My major disappointment of the series was that Vaughan wasn't there for the Aussies to gain total revenge on what could be considered a very lucky and overated captain in 2005. Leave Vaughan where he is (out) and look to the future. Remember Australia lost under Border at first and gained the hunger for winning. Not enough credit has been given to John Buchanan for Australia's success. Their winning run started when he took over. Mark Taylor and Steve Waugh should take him out for a drink and thank him profusely.
Complain about this postIt is unfortunate that the home team will always have a massive advantage due to the shorter tours these days. The visiting team needs to be significantly better than a home team due to their familiarity of the conditions and (in some cases) the tour occuring in the visitors off-season.
Complain about this postPonting Said
"Every Test match you play for your country, you've got to treat like it's your last "
I guess that sums it up really......
Complain about this postI always go to this web site to read the thoughts of the English punters after each Test.
And to be honest Im not jumping for joy being Australian, I feel robbed because the competition was so p@#$ week.
However I do remember the English celebratiions last time around it hurt like hell.
So here's to ya.
Complain about this postOne of the greatest mistakes of the England team was to invite Andy Flintoff to be captain. It was an acknowledgement of Flintoff as a great cricketer to be offered the position. No doubt Andy accepted it in that spirit : How can I refuse such an honour? No doubt also Andy thought ahead to the glory of captaining an England team that was to retain the Ashes in Australia. But surely the hope of glory, the ambition, clouded Andy's judgement : he should have known that he could not possibly carry the burden.
Complain about this postThe greater crime was the Selectors' : they should have asked themselves how one man could be bowler and batsman and still have the concentration and judgement to be captain as well? And think of the other tasks a captain is required to filful, even if only as spokesman and PRO for the team.
the whole tour has been a shambles, i feel gutted for my mates who have paid thousands to go and watch the ashes and have been subjected to one sided games for four weeks! Freddie has proved that he is not up to the job - simple as that. if the captain can't motivate his team to perform then the 'matey, matey' approach he has adopted doesn't work. This was typified by sajid's comments about freddie, would any of the team make similar comments about Vaughan publicly?
Complain about this postIf you poms had bothered to take your rose-tints off you would have noticed England's "dominance" in the last series came down to 2 runs in the 2nd test, and 3 wickets in the 4th test despite having the better of the batting conditions.
But alas, even though you are playing on seaming and spinning wickets with a ball that doesn't swing, and againt the best team in the world at full strength. Some of you deluded fools actually thought England would "dominate" again.
Bring on the 5-nil.
Complain about this postThe only decent test so far played was the second.
Complain about this postThe English players have lost the plot, forgotten the basics of the game and shown that they dont deserve the accolade of being the second best cricket team in the world, let alone of holding the urn. Boys you have to bleed for each other and for England. You have to fight and get a little angry, not roll up into the fetal position when things get rough. Are you guys professionals at what you do or are you really weekend players trying to act like professionals? When playing at your best you can match anyone in the world, so i suggest you dont worry too much about what the Aussies will do, make them worry about what your going to do. Stick to your guns and make a game of it. If not then you can always take up knitting. I hear they need more professionals in that field. Knit for England .... make a name for yourselves. Or just play a game of cricket, and remember to enjoy it, you will play better if your having fun.
I heard you lot singing in the stands: Rule Britannia, Britannia Rule the Waves, and something about not being slaves. My ancestors were the Fenners from Kent/Surrey that fought the Spanish Armada in the 1500s, and we beat them!! Our family migrated to Australia in the 1880s. See, the best among you have already left England and migrated to OZ. We have wonderful weather, great food, beautiful women and so it's no wonder we play such brilliant cricket!!
Complain about this postAs an aussie I have to admit to feeling a bit of sympathy for Freddie. OK fair enough, despite being an excellent player he is far from an ideal Captain. However there is more than just "Freddie" to the team. With Ponting's side, on the odd occasion when two or three or four guys fail, the others consistently rally, grit their teeth, and hang in there for their mates whatever the bloody hell it takes. Face each and every ball as it comes - so be it. Get grass burns saving a 4 - so be it. Put that extra bit of thought and effort into each delivery - so be it. Since when has that truly happened for more than a brief period with the English players this series? Not once. Some of them need to get over themselves (Pieterson springs to mind, among others) and realise it's not just "all about me". Until they bowl, bat and field with consistent and sustained passion, the side is destined for mediocrity.
Complain about this postin the end the reason that the tour party is so low in morale and confidence is the captain
Complain about this posthe has been a shadow of himself as a player and the only times England have looked positive and attacking have been the brief spells Strauss has been setting the fields
it is clear Strauss was Fletcher's man and Flintoff and miller chose Flintoff and this leads on to the incorrect choices of Jones and Giles and the out of form Harmison for the first couple of tests as these 3 are Flintoff's men but as is always the case the media and most fans turn on Fletcher as he is not the media darling that Flintoff has become
Flintoff has been unfit to play physically and as a result his already questionable captaincy ability has been exposed and remarkably the usually inept captaincy skills of Ponting have outshone him
The only good thing to come from this tour will be the return of Flintoff to doing what he is best at which is bowling fast and aggresively and attacking with the bat as an all rounder and ideally a fit Vaughan as captain (if not 100% fit like Flintoff for this tour should not play until he is fully and reliably fit) or if not Strauss to captain the team through to regaining the Ashes in 2009
After all the euphoria and determination of the last ashes series how can a team of supposedly Englands finest be so aloof when trying to retain the hard earned urn.The way the players seem to be dictating to the management and captain where they bat and what they do in there free time is sad for all of us genuine fans.Many of us have spent our hard eaned money and accumulated our holidays to see most or all of this series.Personally I feel let down by our players responce and lack of pride in wearimg the England Jersey.Where has the desire and true commitment gone.Australia certainly have it and most importantly have learned from there defeat in the last series while we have learned nothing and even gone backwards.A sad reflection on "Englands finest".
Complain about this postThis is for all the Aussies & Englishmen if you want on this forum...
Lets Show the Barmy Army (that btw has been driving everyone crazy!!!) That WE HAVE A BETTER REPERTUAR THEN THEM...
Lets Givem A GO FOR THERE POUNDS!!!...what…2.4555 to our legend aussies $$$$’s…you have to be kidding...NO POM is worth 2.4555 more than an Aussie!!!...lol...ok ok ok
Btw: The Barmy Army are GOOD BLOKES!!! WE LOVE YOUR LADETTES!!!….(btw: some of the ladetts are Great Sorts…lol...)
OK NOW...
Hey True Blue, don't say you've gone
Say you've knocked off for a smoko
And you'll be back later on
Hey True Blue, Hey True Blue….etc etc etc
Complain about this postGOODOYA...I LOVE AUSTRALIA!!!
This is for all the Aussies & Englishmen if you want to join us on this forum...
Let’s Show the Barmy Army (that btw has been driving everyone crazy!!!) That WE HAVE A BETTER REPERTUAR THEN THEM...
Let’s Givem A GO FOR THERE POUNDS!!!...What…2.4555 to our Legend Aussies $$$$’s…you have to be kidding...NO POM is worth 2.4555 more than an Aussie!!!...lol...ok ok ok…
Btw: The Barmy Army are GOOD BLOKES & LADETTES!!! Btw: BA…WE LOVE YOUR LADETTES!!!…(btw: some of the ladettes are Great Sorts…lol...)
OK NOW...lets sing…
Hey True Blue, don't say you've gone
Say you've knocked off for a smoko
And you'll be back later on
Hey True Blue, Hey True Blue….etc etc etc
Complain about this postGOODOYA...I LOVE AUSTRALIA!!!
Why not pick Gatting, and Botham for 5th Test in Sydney .... It would make the game more interesting
Complain about this postThe best thing the Australian press did for Ricky Ponting and his men was to subject them to swathes of undeserved and over-the-top criticism as a result of the hard-fought defeat in 2005. Whilst the English press were full of deserved praise for their boys regaining the Ashes, the Australian media (including many former players who have very short memories concerning their own careers) subjected the Aussie team to a barrage of criticism calling for wholesale sackings and for Ricky to be dumped as captain.
Since the 2005 Ashes loss, Ricky Ponting has gone on to prove that statistically he is the most successful Test captain of any country in history, and certainly more successful than his few ex-captain detractors within the Australian media. It is probably fair to say that a large amount of the motivation to regain the Ashes in such an emphatic style this series is provided by the desire to make those overly critical elements of the Australian media 'eat their words'. It is a pity for England that their team stood in the way.
Which leads me to this point - I hope the British press will very quickly stop the circus frenzy attack on the English team and Freddie Flintoff.
Yes, they have been beaten thoroughly by a very good side. But except for the 4th test, every single match has been a contest that except for a couple of sessions could have gone England's way.
But the savage attack, at times very personal, against the English team has been very sinimlar to that subjected on the Australain boys in 205 - over the top and undeserved. I can ony hope that Freddie and his boys don't respond in similar fashion as Ricky and co.
If they do, I pity the team that comes up against them next time - especially Australia in 2009 for the rematch.
Fantastic work Ricky - never give in Freddie.
Complain about this postSo do the English still consider the current Aussie team as 'dad's army' ?
Complain about this postHow many times in the last 25 years England had beaten the Aussies? Last year victory was an aberration. Too much hype after the victory. Perfromance, after that victory, against other countries - nothing great to speak about.Monty takes 5 wickets and every one thinks he is a match winner.
Complain about this postStop this obsession with the Ashes series. Give (incl. English cricketes) equal importance to matches against other countries, except perhaps Banagladesh and Zimbabawe.
Worth keeping in mind that only the West Indies of 80s can stop these highly professional Aussies.
Ahhh so the aussies, deep down wanted a close contest,.....hmmm
Complain about this postThese are some English jokes about the Ashes series (and there from the UK) please don’t blame me for this!!!
Q. What is the height of optimism?
A. An English batsman applying sunscreen.
Q. What would Glen McGrath be if he was an Englishman?
A. An all-rounder.
Q. What advantage do Kevin Pieterson, Andrew Strauss and Geraint Jones have over the rest of their team-mates?
A. At least they can say they're not really English.
Q. What do you call an Englishman with 100 runs against his name?
A. A bowler.
Q. What is the most proficient form of footwork displayed by English batsmen?
A. The walk back to the pavilion.
Q. Who has the easiest job in the English squad?
A. The guy who removes the red ball marks from the bats.
Q. Why is Andrew Flintoff the unluckiest English player?
A. Because he was born in England.
Q. What does "Ashes" stand for?
A. Another Sad Horrific English Series.
Q. What's the English version of LBW?
A. Lost, Beaten, Walloped.
Complain about this posttotal disrespect for the folks who give 'em a very nice salary thank you no spirit i wonder why ?
is it just ignorance or is it the usual " i am making a killing on the stupid backs of da many "
a pathetic display from the players to the management i f one can call it that
happy new year
Trevor w byram sitting in canada & not very happy ......jees
Complain about this posttotal disrespect for the folks who give 'em a very nice salary thank you no spirit i wonder why ?
is it just ignorance or is it the usual " i am making a killing on the stupid backs of da many "
a pathetic display from the players to the management i f one can call it that
happy new year
Trevor w byram sitting in canada & not very happy ......jees
Complain about this postI still remember Flintoff and Pieterson being shown Drunk on TV with drinks in hand, celebrating the victory, roaming around central london from Downing Street to Buckingham Palace after winning Ashesh in 2005, followed by recommendations of MBE, OBE etc and being made natinal Hero on Media. See what you get now - bunch of loosers. No team game, no sporting spirit. The England Team is just BLANK. Who knows, we might see Flintoff and Pieterson Drunk again on TV - but this time around for different reason.?
Complain about this postThe "team" has played like a bunch of ruptured fairies - at MCG I have seen no more than three attacking forward strokes. Where's the coach ?
They should be arraigned in The Tower and charged with bringing the game in to disrepute.
Complain about this postLet's be truthful !!!
England never really beat Aus. in 2005 it was Aus. loosing it to England.
They took them as lite wieghts and paid the price.
Now they really turned on the power, Gilchrest innings in Perth was a clear example.
To loose in 3 days and an innings shows the differance between the sides.
I fear Aus. will dominate again for decadesas they have another 30 players just waiting for a chance.
Complain about this postI am an Aussie supporter, but I am seriously embarrassed by the way England supporters are ripping into their team with gusto. Football is not the national sport - it is kicking their own team.
Freddie is well liked and admired in Australia as a good bloke and a fine cricketer - as are most of the England team. Yes Australia were ruthless in their desire to inflict retribution on England, but it is no longer satisfying watching as Englands "supporters" and media turn on their team.
It is a disgrace and I hope that Freddie & co prove you all wrong - after the ashes finishes.
Complain about this postJames Brown. Of course it won't happen but why on earth do you think the Queen shouldn't give the Aus team the same treatment as the English team got??? She's their Queen too after all or have you forgotten that? Well, can't blame you there, she certainly has forgotten.
Complain about this postengland has a mild chance of winning the 5th test,but still they have one last chance.these are few plans
Complain about this post1.justin langer is a sure lbw candidate and hoggard is the bowler who is the most probable one to dismiss him,usually langer scores faster than Hayden and if this pattern is changed i think justin langer will not last 20 balls.
2. Hayden is not in his prime form these days 150 he made was mainly due to England's poor bowling.Hayden usually gets out in the covers so better give him an easily drivable delivery in each over and place more fielders on the leg side from the slips,even a midwicket for Hayden is a nice position.
3.ricky ponting is a kind of player who plays every shot in the book and his flicks and pulls through leg side usually comes into his play when he passes 20 runs,before that he want to get few boundaries to covers and his pulling sometimes ends up in his dismissals.he likes to pull those deliveries which are not short at all by any means and that gets him into a front foot back foot position that if he goes with the shot it will be usually in the stands on any big ground.so better give him a short delivery rather than short of length and mind you don't give any pace to hit and place two fielders one very square fine leg and one very close to umpire.
4.mike hussey is a very good judger of the line of the delivery,that is why he is able to live deliveries very close to his body and line of stumps.he plays through the covers right from the start of his innings.he rarely likes to force the ball through the slip cordon, he is a positive lad who likes through score runs basically through covers and he like sweating and runs hard and he doesn't needs any easy runs through the third man area. fro me just tight the off side field especially the cover area and just slightly take the slip cordon away which will force him to play through that area once he has started doing that place a nice acrobatic fielder in the slips(trescothik is the ideal man) and i think this is rather a good point.he is also an aggressive runner between wickets ,if he is batting with ponting Hayden or langer then there is a chance for the boundary fielders to get his partner out .but this will not work with Clarke and symonds or Gilchrist even.
5.M.Clarke is the most aggressive player in Australia in a way that he leaves very less balls and when a spinner is operating the footworks is pretty good,very nimble and to me the easiest way to dismiss him is to exploit his aggressiveness.when a spinner is operating ball him few full deliveries early on,the length should be such that if he uses his foot nicely then he can reach the delivery easily,bowl him 5 or 6 deliveries like that and afterwards don't ball him a single delivery like that for the next 25 balls.then to me he will surely be out caught in slip,silly point or even mid off or mid on.
6.Andrew symonds is the strongest man and give him very slow deliveries if you are a spinner at start,but if u are a fast bowler just give him the most fast delivery u can produce,since he is a great one day batsman he never looks down to calm a bit when he is on song.to me he is more vulnerable to spin than pace bowling.bowl him little wide and in a looping length,place the slip fielder wide and place a sweeper back in the extra cover boundary.symonds will try his entire strength to loft the spinner mind u bowl the slowest delivery possible.
7.Adam Gilchrist likes to cut too many deliveries his upper cut usually brings to his downfall in one dayers in test matches(no need to upper cut too many deliveries as in one dayers).get ur best baller to me england s bowlers are very big and i like one fast bowler who is less than 180 cm to ball to him an genuine fast bowler who is bit short than flintoff, harmison and sajid,hoggard may be an option but i think he is not quick enough.
rest of the Australian is treated as tail enders for Shane warne one has to ball again the fastest delivery to get him he usually picks the slower ones,he like to hit lot of deliveries above point and over third man,so give him lot of deliveries around his leg stump don't mind deliveries over leg stump,this tactics will work if he has passed 15 runs before that treat him as no 11 and bowl him with the utmost pace. for Bret lee i think one has to really keep in mind that he himself is an express bowler so he thinks that way to try to pace him out rather than a decent length deliver.so bowl him decent length deliveries.he has a natural shuffle when batting so get him few shoulder high deliveries around leg stump and then try to ball a fuller one with pace. for Stuart Clarke and Glenn McGrath u treat them like 40 year old batsman,never look at them just bowl deliveries in same place one after other they will definitely make mistake.if the bowl is swinging then make them leave deliveries and fire one delivery to hit top of off stump with the same line which you bowled the previous harmless deliveries.
Until England have in place a domestic competition similar to Australia and Seth Efrika, with all their so-called elite ("central contract") players involved, any success they have in international cricket will be an absolute fluke.
Some utter twit commented that England should ban overseas players from playing in county cricket. That would be magic - you poms wouldn't have had the opportunity to view/experience/learn Warnie's bowling for all these years. What better way for Aussie teams to thrive in international matches than to keep our trick bowlers under wraps!
England still favourites for 2009? Chortle, guffaw, splutter. OK, so what odds are the punters getting on Australia then, because I'd like to get something better than evens.
Complain about this postSpot on as always Aggers, I am an Aussie and I've thoroughly enjoyed your commentary on the radio this summer. However I don't agree with everyone banging on and on about Pietersen batting four because that's where the team's best batsman always bats. As far as I knew the best bat in each team always bats at 3? That's where he should bat.... Ricky Ponting doesn't bat at 3 does he?
Complain about this postAggers, Never mind about the cricket, how was dinner with Kerry O'Keefe?
Complain about this post(For those in the dark, in true TMS fashion Aggers was winding up Kerry somethng great about this in the dying throes of the match on Wednesday. It was much more entertaining than the cricket).
Can we expect a report from you before the Sydney test or do we have to wait?
Thank god it was over in 3 days, gave the barmy army two days to do something useful,
5-0, and there is a god
Complain about this postCongratulations to Australia on a well deserved Ashes victory.
As for England, there is already more than enough discussion about Troy Cooley, England selection, the captaincy, injuries etc, the question is where do England go from here?
The constant media and blogger's sniping at Duncan Fletcher is not constructive. Yes he's made mistakes, but can you imagine the baying for blood that would follow if he was to publicly admit to them? The media should remember that during Fletcher's time as coach, England have improved beyond recognition to become the second best team in the world and give him a lot more credit for what he has achieved.
So to my mind, cut him a bit of slack and let him get on with the job, rather than constantly undermining him. That way we stand a chance of learning from our mistakes, rather than being condemned to endlessly repeat them.
The same goes for the players. This Ashes series was always going to be a tough call and if we constantly snipe at our team, can we really expect them to go out there and play with confidence?
Complain about this postNot sure that the doom and gloom hasn't been a bit overdone.
There is a lot of good young talent in this English side. Should bounce back.
Time for some changes in emphasis in the coaching and selection though.
Strauss/Cook ,captain and vice.
Flintoff is a bowler, any batting is a bonus.
More players with the determination shown by Read helpful.
Like to know who didn't have Xmas dinner with the team, that was a bit of a worry.
Complain about this postEngland won a bunch of test matches in the last 2 years that were against weak teams with the exception of South Africa. The Ashes win at home was a well earned one. England for instance struggled to draw the series against India, and the frailties were there for anyone to see.
But the Englisg fans and their coach got megalomaniacal and thought they can beat Australia in Australia. Tough odds.
The Aussies are so good, that only India can match them
Too bad, England you are back where you belong
Complain about this postRavi Balky
It's not even a fair contest anymore and I have now switched off. It is now getting boring as England are appaling. It really is men against boys and does highlight the fact that England won the Ashes last year by fluke.
Complain about this postWhen I went to bed the Aussies were 112-ish for 5 at lunch. When I woke up five and a bit hours later, they were still only 5 down.
Complain about this postAny chance of a place in the expanding Englnd set-up as lucky mascot?
I've suffered sleep deprivation anyway and am prepared to go the extra mile for the cause!
Australia - Dad's army. Can't bat, can't bowl, can't field.
Complain about this postEngland - Can't beat Australia.
Not wishing to state the b----ing obvious but the key to Australia's success is their run rate - approx 4 per over vs 2 pr over. In other words the batsman out their to score runs not to defend their wicket, the bowlers are their to bowl people out not to minimise the runs scored and the fielders are there to assist the bowlers not collect the ball from the boundary! It is all about attitude!
Complain about this postAustralia should be made to play with Jason Gillespie on the team so the opposition have a chance to get some runs.
Seriously though there does seem to be some leadership issues with in the England camp I just hope it can be sorted out by internally rather than by the press!
Complain about this postWe can pontificate for a long time about what has /or is going wrong with the English cricket team but the underlying fact shouting out is TEAM SPIRIT - there isn't one and there has to be a reason for that. Please will someone connected to the team stand up and be counted and tell it as it is. Honesty counts for a lot.
Well done Australia and good bye and a very big thank you to Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath for the excitement you have given us.
Complain about this postAs a Brit who has always supported the Aussies this series has been so satisfying. England were lucky to win the Ashes in 2005 and here now is the proof! Australians should be proud of their outstanding team and leadership. It's been worth staying up through the night to watch such fantastic cricket from the Australian team. Each and every one of them has contributed. It'll be sad to see Warnie and McGrath go but I do believe that bringing in Shane Watson for Warnie and thus extending the batting line up further could be the answer. Give ourselves four seamers (the extra addition Mitchell Johnson) and forget relying on spin until a decent replacement comes along. There is always Stuart MacGill if needed but I really believe that the Aussies can rely on the spin of Symonds and the underrated Michael Clarke to give them a spin option for now.
Complain about this postAs for the England team, there is no cohesion, no fight, no belief, no leadership and they have been once again taught a lesson.
What doesn't kill you should make you stronger, we should take the lessons from our recent disaster and make the changes that have long been considered necessary for a long time, develop young English talent to play at the highest level, the only money spinning cricket is major international test cricket and limited over competition.
The county game with overseas players will not generate the pool of talent needed to support the test side. We must concentrate on the improvement of the grassroots, club and school standards.
There is no significant financial difference between the 1st and 2nd division of the county championship, gates are similar and few get to see the money draining overseas talent recruited supposedly to attract bigger gates and sponsorship. The sponsorship money going straight back into the players pockets, of no real benefit to the game. Sounds familiar.
Complain about this postJonathan Agnew said: "There is no shame when, having given everything, you lose to a better opponent. But the players need to show the doubters that they have spirit."
However, throughout all 4 tests so far, and I suspect in Sydney, England have not given everything they have. The batsmen have looked terrible, with a few exceptions, notably: Alistair Cook, and the bowlers have looked terrible too. Does anyone in this England line-up know what the ashes mean to the fans? Maybe they have forgotten the rivalry between these two countires, because at present it looks like England gave up the ghost after Australia's first innings of the series.
5-0 not only beckons, but unless there is a major turn around and our batsmen remember how to bat and our bowlers remember how to bowl the basics, 5-0 is the reality.
Complain about this postNikhil… and I quote…“england has a mild chance of winning the 5th test, but still they have one last chance. these are few plans”…
RU Stoned or on ICE or something???...Nikhil???...Yes...And PIGS FLY TOO!!!..
And YOU WISH!!!...ohhh...I am sorry Nikhil has just woken UP FROM A BAD DREAM!!!…GOOD MORNING LAD…
WAS THAT JUST A DEREAM??? OR A FASINATION???....WELL THAT IS WAHT THE ENGLISH SUPPORTERS HAVE GOT LEFT "A FASINATION"...
Complain about this posta 5-0 will serve England right. Through the past year they were saying how they won the Ashes & all other competitions were just practice matches for the next Ashes in australia where they were going to teach a lesson to Aussies. All the while losing or drawing almost all the test series & getting thrashed in ODIs.
Now Aussies have brought them back to earth & they should realise that England team at present is really crap.
Complain about this postReading the comments on this site there is little to add really. I am bitterly disappointed at the performance of the England cricket team.
To me, the cause of our demise is the system under which English cricket is played. We are only as good as the system allows. Improve the system and the cricket improves. Easy said but very difficult to achieve. We do want to win back the ashes next time - don't we?
Complain about this postJust under 500 days ago in another move typical of the government's haste to pour honours onto so called sports start, this lot were all awarded MBEs.
Complain about this postI take it that they will have the good grace to hand them back to Her Majesty.
Still are they bothered? Of course not, they will just get into their sponsored cars and go home to work out another deal for sponsored shirts, pads, bats etc.
What whimps!
Maybe the 5th test should be England vs AUS 2nd or even 3rd XI. Who knows you lot may actually go close to winning something (or at least last until day 5)
Complain about this postWe can criticise the Management all we want but there is no escaping the fact that the Teams comprise well trained athletes in the (hopefully) pinnacle of fitness and at the top of their game. A substantial slice of blame should be dished out to individual England players who played like lost sheep or, at best, temperamental children. By contrast, the Aussies looked like a well drilled pack of wolves - cohesive, cunning, ruthless and HAVING A BALL with our flock of skittish domestic livestock!
Complain about this posti agree with all that australia is playing better then the england team but there is one more thing which no one is see or puting there thought in it as umpiring desicions against the england which were wrong most of the time in mcg for exmple of symonds ,hydayen caught plum lbw and same thing with australia if the bowler give a long appeals were given out .
Complain about this postso, i do not agree that england did not played with team spirit.
What is it about England travelling down under,it seems to me we were a fragile imitation of the team that played so well at home in 2005. Four years ago we tried to regain the ashes down under with injured and under prepared players who crumbled. This time we used the same tactic and we've fallen well short again. I don't believe for one minute we have become a bad cricketing side, for me, the inquest must start with why the team that stood toe to toe with Australia 18 months ago is not able to regroup and go again in 2006/7. Why do we suffer with so many injuries, injuries that go on for so long. Why don't we use continuity in selection like other countries, after the last ashes we lost several key players again, but re grouped through 2006, finally producing some decent cricket before the end of the summer. Read had taken the gloves, in Monty we had found a wicket taking spinner, Mahmood was improving with every test, stuart broad had bowled his way into the team, a prospect only Englland would turn their back on. Then the chamions trophy, the only one day bowler who looked top class in 2006 (Lewis) is dropped. Lets not dwell on the fact that the bowling coach that gave us the best four prong attack in our history was alllowed to switch sides to the Australians, a team which has produced the kind of consistency which we had come to expect from Englland 18 months earlier. I really don't blame the players down under, they are not good enough to compete as a team with this current aussie side, thats obvious, but I am confident they are doing there best. What does alarm me is the the management team currently running the team, I doubt there will be any blame, no sense of responsibility for the humiliation on this country, just excuses and promises of 'learning lessons' which I doubt will happen. If Freddie is involved in picking the team then he must shoulder some of the blame, especially as his captaincy has not been great, far too defensive in my opinion. Who appointed him though? Who has made the blunders which have cost us so dearly, who is responsible for team selection, this is the problem, so many people involved no-one to blame, so the problems keep reappearing. In four years will we play the old favoutites?, perhaps it'll be the 2005 winning team again, or use the current crop of inform players who have earnt thier place in the team, we'll have to wait and see. One the thing you can rely on though, which ever team we send they will be loyally supported by the fans and cricket enthusiasts across the country.
Complain about this postTo beat the best you have to have everything going your way. England had to put up with
1 Injuries to Vaughan and Jones
2 Poor preparation (look what Australia did)
3 Ridiculous scheduling of games in the run up to the Ashes. Was this done by a cricketer!!
4 The loss of Trescothick at the start.
5 Poor team selection - even the Ozzies were amazed we left out Panesar
6 Poor choice of captain. Flintoff is a great player and is our leading bowler. Why saddle him with even more tasks? Remember Botham?
Talk about being hit for 6! We just did not take this as seriously as the Ozzies. They moved on from 2005 and we moved back. Result obvious - as is the cure
Complain about this postEngland's problem is that they have put on a show of being positive and agressive no matter what.
Appoint Flintoff captain. Why, when Strauss has done the job well with Middlesex. Was he meant to inspire like Botham?
Declare at Adelaide. Why, England were never going to bowl the Aussies out twice on that pitch.
Bat first at Melbourne. Why, it was always going to do plenty for the first day at least and the batting had been poor since the second innnings in Adelaide
Complain about this postIt seems to me that the fundemental problem lies in the fact that Flintoff is not a true Captain. He is unable to manage the Coach and it appears that the players take little or no notice of him as he seems to be more interested in having a "good time", rather than addressing the job for which he is paid.
Complain about this postIt is also sad to see that some of the team have been allowed to revert back to being very scruffy in their appearance and not shaving, this demonstrates an attitude of mind which again has been reflected by most of the team on this tour.
I think the England team should study with a Zen master to try and regain some team spirit. The talent is there, in abundance, so why can't they play together - it's not lack of ability so it must be something else missing - they have nothing to lose - try it!! :)
Complain about this postThe natural order of things has returned, with Australia regaining the Ashes proviong that last years victory was nothing but a flash in the pan.
Complain about this postEngland were very lucky to win the ashes last year, which can be put down to Australia's failure to replace McGrath once he was injured.
Ponting's as captain was outsmarted by Vaughan.
This series proves Flintoff should not captain the team and also questions his batting.
He is a slogger and nothing more, why blame Geraint Jones when Flintoff did no better, perhaps England needed a sixth batsman rather than squabble about who's the better wicket keeper batsman.
Other questions as to why Ashley Giles, never the greatest spinner, returned straight into the test team following a year off need to be addressed.
Pietersen mught have looked aloof at Melbourne, but Strauss who should have been captain has not looked at all bothered throughout the series and gave his wicket away cheaply too often.
As a Welshman I'm delighted Australia beat England, but as someone who stayed up long into the morning, I wanted to watch a contest, not a massacre.
I'm an Aussie and this is what I have observed:
1. Eng won in 05 by a slight margin over an complacent Aussie team but instead paying respect to a wounded opponent, you put on a big ticket tape parade etc.. act as if you were the #1 team already.. All it did was to provide extra motivation to the Aussie team, we have won lots of matches since the 05 Ashes loss but it was all a build up to this year's ashes..
2. Aussies like Flintoff, eventhough he destroyed us last series.. because he paid us respect when we lost.. thought of other team first, then he celebrated.. I have no doubt he will bounce back in 09.
3. Aussie team will be on slide back down to the rest of the world after losing 2 of the greatest ever wicket takers.. but I wouldn't say we'll be easy beats.. It will be interesting to see how England handle being the favourite for 09. Everything comes & goes in waves, Aust has had its fair share of riding the top of the wave, let's see if Eng can handle being on top there..
4. Finally, I have seen a lot of Eng fans make all sorts of excuses on why the series was lost eg: bad umpiring, lost of good players. Guess what that's part & parcel of being a top international team, or are you guys saying Aust was on top all these years because we never have injuries or have bad umpiring against us..05 was a prime example, we simply said that we lost to a better team at the time and went about rectifying what went wrong.
Complain about this postI don't know much about cricket, but as TMS is on Radio 4 I listen to it and enjoy it. Two things stand out for me after this disaster :
1) This is the basically the same team that beat Australia last year. What is the difference between then and now ? Or is it that Australia lost rather than England won ?
2) Honours like MBEs, OBEs and the rest should be handed out after several years of the highest performance and not after some flash-in-the-pan result. Same goes for signature of sponsorship contracts. What is Freedy's worth now ?
Complain about this posthi lets be honest we dont have players of internationl standard. they play a good club level cricket thats all
Complain about this postwhere are the trumans stathams lindwall willis snow bothams, not there,we play to stufy to correct sometimes, you look at the other sides they all have players with a natural talent,look at gilchrist batting seven hes better than any of our side. so come on lets get boycott botham willis gower in there to get the team going.and yes paul nixon should have been wicket keeper
Mmmm!
Have I missed something? Yes England lost and looking at the overall scores it was a drubbing. But looking at the scores more closely it would seem to me that there was only two Aussie batsman that had a good knock that made the difference. All the experts and pundits are saying how bad they were but it only needed the two key Aussies Hayden/Symmonds to fail and they would have been no different from England. Perhaps some of you experts could tell me I am wrong or explain why all the other AUssies of this Great side were no beeter than the England team but the England team are so bad.
Complain about this postengland were so badly defeated simply because austrailia are so much better, but thats just stating the obvious. it doesn't matter about england's team spirit, morale, injuries or anything else, it's just black and white
Complain about this postI would particularly like to pick up on your comment re Kevin Pietersen. This man really is an enigma. He can either be in brilliant form or he can be in Australia. Not both. To watch him with the 'tail' in the previous tests was a master-class in selfishness. I lost count of the number of times he took a single off the first ball of an over, thus exposing the lesser batsman. All he seemed to be concerned about was his batting average, which would be flattered with the inclusion of more 'not out' innings.
Complain about this postIt could be the fact that he is South African by birth and therefore feels no pride in wearing an England cap. I fear for us in the final test.
the ashes tour has been a comedy if errors from the beginning. Why did tresco agree to tour having left india in a hurry with some kind of mental problem. flintoff has failed in captaincy and DF has not properly supported him. few careers have been enhanced by all this but several have been shattered perhaps permanently. on the whole a sorry business........
Complain about this postI think one word, or rather the lack of it, sums up this series - application. This is highlighted by the reports from the 3rd that said that Freddy hit a "belligerent 51" -so what, if he had a hit a slow and boring 30 over 5 hours it would have been much more useful. No-one batting past three seems to want to take real responsibility, test after test, for staying in the middle. That would solve a lot of problems but possibly not win the plaudits of the pundits
Complain about this postForget the bad decisions, everyone gets them, just look at the facts:-
Complain about this postEngland from 101 for 2 to 159 all out.
Australia from 84 for 5 to 419 all out.
Australia are better in every department. On current form there is not one English player who would be good enough to play for Australia (and sadly I have to include Andrew Flintoff).
I have never agreed with fast bowlers being made captain as they never know when, or not to bowl themselves. I don't think Flintoff is a good captain he seems to defensive!! and I don't agree with wives and girlfriends being around on tour, to many distractions!
Complain about this postThe tour has been an unmitigated disaster for England. It is as if the 2005 Ashes series never happened, such has been the difference between the sides and the ineptitude on display from England. I think JA has hit on a very important issue here with regards to England team spirit or apprent lack thereof...I hardly think we blame Flether for this (I would like to) but I do pin some of the blame on Flintoff who at times has appeared apparently devoid of criticims as he's "Freddie". Both coach and captain should share the blame for this total and utter shambles of a tour. It's embarrassing frankly.
It's obvious FF isn't captai material. I always suspected this but cricket journalists such as CMJ backed him for captaincy on the back of one series in India...utter nonsense in hindsight. A captain can't be a Superman character, they need to be a shrewd, calculating strategist such as the coruscating Vaughan. This sn't to denigrate FF, merely to point out he should never have been captain (Strauss IMHO) was obvious candidate as replacement for MV.
Alas, the series has 5-0 written all over it. From the Ashes of a battered bowling attack, a routed batting effort and a non-existent team spirit England need to go home with their tails between their legs, lick their naked wounds and learn some seious lessons. Should they fail to do this another 16 years+ of horrifying defeat awaits.
Complain about this postLets not forget that this Australia side has no weeknesses, their batting order can surely never have been stronger and they have 4 world class bowlers that could get into aany test side in the world at the moment, we have simply been beaten by a better side. The sad thing about the whole episode to me is, it gives cannon fodder to losers such as Agnew and other broadcasters who never actually played at the highest level, to critisise and focus on every negative they can think of. If we had picked the correct team from day one, we would have lost the first test, won the second and arrived at Perth all square instead of 2 down, simple as that. The fact is Monty would have skittled the Aussies in the second test and they would have never got as close to our 550 as they did. Team selection is behind the majority of our woes, Hoggie has bowled superbly as has Freddie and also Monty, had they all been in at the start the outcome would have been different. Cricketers live on their confidence, that was severely dented after the stunning loss at Adelaide, and lets face it Giles miserable bowling played a huge part in that loss.
Complain about this posti agree with agers however how things could have been so different ,england have had to put up with some awfull umpiring decisions, when i say this it is not a kop out the aussies have been awesome and deserve credit for their ruthless aproach .but go back to the adelaide test on the final day the strauss decision started the rot then later on the a couple of the tailenders were out to poor decisions in the end england were probably 30 runs short, which had strauss not been given out he may have got the runs .then the melbourne test hayden should have been out twice in consecutive balls from hoggard now had the correct decision been given the aussies would have really been on the back foot and who knows we may have been in for lead going into the second innings .but not to be i feel that the aussies have faired much better the umpire errors. we have to stick by all the team now we will all get to see just how good the aussies are without there 2 strike bowlers ,also pontings captaincy we will get a good look how he will go without be able to get warnie to create the pressure that he does.
Complain about this postI have never been more than a second eleven player and have always envied and admired the hand-eye coordination and ball skills of test quality players.
I would be ashamed if I had those skills, was chosen to represent my country and put as little effort or thought in to what I was doing and who I was representing.
The England players' application and effort is a disgrace. It is offensive to and dismissive of those who support the England team.
Barrie Higgs
Complain about this posti've been reading the comments on here and i can't believe the aussies are still so bitter and twisted about 2005.in 2005 the end result was close but england were the better team and deserved to win.
Complain about this postthis time australia are by far the better team and have deserved there victory.so why are the aussies so bitter.do you really think you have a god given right to win everything.
i mean look at the first post .how pathetic.are you saying the aussie team don't get there share of hero worship.i'm sick of seeing them on pathetic tv ads.you aussies have your own ways the english have theres.having said that i think the english celebrations were over the top ,as is the australian and the shane warne stuff.
pg, interesting post.
I am English and in response -
1. I have come across this point of view before and find it a little strange - I'm not sure where you are (collectively - I work with seven aussies) coming from. Having a huge celebration in Trafalgar Square was in no way a sign of disrespect to a wounded opponent. I was there, it was a celebration of an uplifting victory - it brought you closer to your friends, colleagues - you felt a genuine, positive collective buzz. It wasn't about you, it was about us. Let's be honest, it was over the top because we had only won one series but you have to appreciate that we have been starved of victory for years. This makes it all rather understandable. I will be genuinely keen too see how humble the aussies will be when they win 5-0!!
2. I appreciate that comment - personally i enjoy sport immeasurably more when there is genuine sprit and respect between the teams, coupled together with real aggression and passion for your country there is nothing to top it. Shame we didn't come to the party - we all deserved a competitive series.
3. We'll see. The problem for us is that we are not used to winning and are not conditioned for success. We have had decades of under achievement. We have hugely talented individuals, but we do not have the systems needed to produce consistent teams. We flog our sportsmen/women within the domestic games and focus on the national side as an after thought. We will them on with immense pride and media hype and then feign surprise when they flop. This cycle will be difficult to break but on a positive note we have achieved more in the last 3 years than we did in the previous forty.
4. This surprises me. Is this your personal experience? I like to distinguish between the English Media and England fans. The media are jingoistic, interested only in profit and will ALWAYS over-hype and over-criticize. I honestly do think that England fans are quick to praise the opposition (I'll state it here - the Aussies have been fantastic, world class - no excuses!) and are very self effacing when describing the shortcomings of their team. England have been risible - in performance in planning, in managing their players (these injuries are not excuses, they are symptomatic of our rubbish system).
Complain about this postAs ive said before the england "fans" on this blog should be ashamed of themselves. No wonder the aussies feel embarassed by what can only be called insults to suposedly your national cricket team. these are only the minority of people on the blog but when you can come back with some constructive criticism and talk like grownups come back.
cynewulf- Flintoff is not a thick bafoon. he is arguably the best all rounder in the world when on form. How dare you say his innings at trent bridge was a "slog!"lets see you do better.
Johnny- Flintoff is not a chav and even if he looks like one-why should that effect your opinion of the quality of his cricket.
Adrien- why would you want to drop Bell. This is the guy that made three consecutive centuries this summer and has made some good innings in this series.
you all loose your faith so easily! england can learn from this.
Complain about this postwhy the bowlers cantbowl a line and length i dont know they are doing it day in day out i work 6days a week no practice but as afast medium bowler i can get it on the spot .and for saying its nerves rubbish the batsmen especialy the left handers they dont play bat and pad together , they need to move there feet and get in line .i would really like to coach thease players to do the basics. im here if there is a challenge
Complain about this postI feel sorry for our boys, although we fought bravely at Perth, the defeat at Adelaide just knocked the stuffing out of us!!! Hence, the dispirited performance that we have just seen at Melbourne.
The main problem with touring down under is that the Aussies are at you 24/7 whether it's their cricketers on the field, or their media off it!!! It's something that Freddie and the boys have found it hard to cope with, just like other England cricket teams in the past! I see that old chestnut known as team spirit has cropped up again about guys like Strauss and Pietersen apparently not towing the party line, but that's always going to happen on a long tour when you're 4-0 down!
Yeah the aussies have played well, and it's nice to see guys like the two Clark's (i know one has the extra e!) and Hussey do well, but they've not been really tested have they for five days like they were in 2005! England won that series because they had a good captain and a fully fit, fully functioning bowling attack. This time there was no Vaughan (who I think would've have wiped Ponting's smug smile off his face!) and our bowlers were either half fit or out of form!!!
Questions are being asked about Oz as they fall into their dark ages post McGrath and Warne, but their batting lineup remains potent, and they have some promising pace bowlers who will no doubt warm up for 2009 by playing county cricket over the next few years. The one thing Oz don't have though is another Warne - as although MacGill will no doubt fill in for a while, it remains to see where thay can find another top class spinner from, but probably they will and just in time for 2009 as well!!!
As for England, get rid of the dead wood (Giles, Jones and Harmison) and bring in some players who are in form, fully fit and hungry for success!!
Complain about this postI agree entirely with Aggers and many of you: poor morale, players not match ready, wrong selections in players and batting order and out psyched by the Aussies (Warne doesn't even have to bowl to get most players out).
One thing that's always puzzled me, however, is why England players are always injured, especially when you compare this against other teams. A big fit lad like Simon Jones who has been out for ages, Vaughan with his dodgy knee and Flintoff is clearly troubled by his ankle. Is there a training issue which needs addressing here?
Complain about this postIt is good to hear the English supporters complaining about terrible umpiring decisions at last. They did not seem so concerned about diabolical umpiring decisions when other sides were on the receiving end - particularly Australia in 2005 and Pakistan in 2006 (reverse swing is 'great bowling' when England achieve it but 'cheating' when Pakistan do!). Perhaps now there were be more calls from ALL quarters for the greater use of technology to remove the human error of poor umpiring decisions as far as possible.
Complain about this postI'm afraid the somewhat verbal comments I would like to make about a bunch of obviously underprepared so-called professionals could not be said in an Email.
Complain about this postHowever, they were very lucky to win the last series, as at least two of the tests could have gone either way. This was totally overlooked by the team and the manager and where they should have been better prepared they were actually worse, leaving the Australians, who had prepared professionally, to trounce them very efficiently. There is no doubt in my mind that it will be a 5-0 finish and English cricket will go back into the doldrums where this lot will be totally responsible for putting it there.
True Blue.....................What an absolute PLONKER!!
Complain about this postAggers is spot on, sadly. The Aussies overcame the different players resistence to their Boot Camp - Shane Warne's reported revulsion at the prospect of physical exertion without a kookaburra ball in his hand, being one - and pulled together to make sure that they had the best chance possible of giving us a hiding. Haven't they just, though!
Complain about this postBut, let us not forget Hayden's two LBW let-offs before he got going in this last test. The later one yesterday morning. Such decisions define results. Last year we got the rub of the green with the marginal decisions: think of Damian Martyn's dodgy LBW dismissals when he had edged the ball into his pads. Was it twice or three times? The Edgebaston Test could easily have been lost. This year the Aussies have ridden their luck on occasions, surely, but have produced more top performances.
Poor selections, the inclusions of Giles and Anderson, and the reluctance to pick Monty and Sajid Mahmood, have not helped, but we have missed Simon Jones' reverse swing and Tresco's Haydon-like prescence at the top of the order. Add to that the detached authority offered by Michael Vaughen, not to mention his ability with the blade then defeat should not come as a surprise.
What has been a surprise has been the weakening spirit: that is unacceptable. Perhaps an evening "on the lash" with Beefy, Gower and Gatting - wives or no wives - knecking some of the "produit local", showing a few clips of 1981 and 2005 in between tales of "derring-do" from Both, Bumble and Co and then sprinkle on a little of Athers stubborn, Boycs-like 180-odd vs Alan Donald and Polly. If that did not do the trick then at least it would bring them back together again and remind us of those heady days of 2005.
Winning test matches is all about occupying the crease. Let's face it, if you stay out there batting, you can't get beat, right?
Remember Chris Tavare?
My he was boring to watch, but how many times did he occupy the crease all day for 70 not out?
Where is his counterpart in the current line up?
Complain about this postOh how we could do with a guy that blocks all day. Unless it was Geoff Boycott of course. All England fans just loved to see him get out early on
Although Pieterson has averaged about 60 in the series, I would drop him. He is an arrogant aloof poser who wants to be a member of the ICC (international celebrity club). He has the ability to be a great batsman but frequently gets himself out to stupid shots instead of going on to make a really big score. The Aussie batsmen know how to accumulate large scores. I would drop him as a warning that no player has a right to a permanent place in the side. Hopefully this might have the desired effect of making him work harder and be more responsible.
Complain about this postWe struggled ever since we lost an opening batsman, Trescothick, replaced him with a tail-ender and moved everyone up one in the batting order.
Surely there must be a batsman that we could have called on to bolster the top order instead of relying on bowlers to pick up the pieces in the middle.
Complain about this postWhy are we (english) all suprised? Going in to the last series both teams were in good form. Best two teams in the World. Since the last Ashes, England have not performed. Have we won a series since? Whereas Australia have. Continuing to beat all comers. No open top bus this time.
Complain about this postDear Mr J Agnew
On the selection issue, I wonder who before the much villified Ramprakash was the last county batsman to have averaged over 100 and not been selected to play for England.
And what of John Crawley - county average 67.
Ignore form at your peril - thus the failures of Trescothick, Giles, Anderson and Jones.
I remember David Steele in the Greig v Lillie/Thompson era.
Regards to Mr Agnew (you did not get me out ever when we faced each other in school matches!!).
John Holtom
Complain about this postIn reply to PWL sure we have lost the irreplacible in Warnie as the Sri Lankans will when the great Murili retires but we will still have [hopefully] Lee, stuart Clark [the new McGrath], Johnson, Tait and a few other quicks, all we need is for Cameron White and Cullen to spend many hours with Warnie, Terry Jenner etc no-one can replace Warne and as a result the ozzies may spend longer in the field as they currently but one thing for certain when it comes to 2009 Punter and co will make sure you get a contest, playing as a team is ingrained in the australian way. Thank you Barmy army for your good natured supporting and behavior, Freddie+ co, hand back those MBE's and get serious about playing for the treasured urn, you have all the talent in the world just start playing as a team, hopefully we will see the real England give us a contest in 2009
Complain about this postI've enjoyed reading everyone's comments and wholeheartedly agree England have put up a shambolic display both on and off the field. In 2005 England deservedly (BUT NARROWLY) won back the Ashes. The over the top celebrations however were an embarrassment, lacked dignity and only served to motivate an already outstanding Australian cricket team. Well done Australia for thumping us this time around with such style, aggression, leadership from the front and brilliant cricket. The good thing about being thrashed inside three days is that it saves having to sit up until four in the morning, five days in succession, hoping for some English spirit.
Complain about this postWhat chance Warney stepping out of retirement to give us a scare next time around?
How can England expect to win when they have a bowling coach that was useless when he was at Somerset?
Complain about this postThe most disappointing thing for me about the Ashes series is the "what might have been" element.
Its not as if England went over with a bunch of inexperienced youngsters (Cook and Panesar excepted). This was, by and large, the team that won us the Ashes a year and a half ago.
I'm just angry that poor planning, preparation, selection and apparent infighting in the England camp have resulted in a team of (mostly) talented and capable players, playing with a complete lack of enthusiasm, will or determination.
If these guys had played to the best of their ability, the Ashes might still be up for grabs.
I acknowledge that the Aussies are not for nothing ranked number 1 in the world, but if you look at their scorecards for each innings of each match, you'll see that they are far from invincible. England had opportunities in most of the games, but simply failed to capitalise on them.
On the rare occasions our batsmen performed, our bowlers failed to give us an advantage. Likewise, when our bowlers got the Aussies out for relatively low scores, our batsmen threw their wickets away.
More than anything I think we need a change of management (and a radical shakeup in our approach to preparing for Test series). We also need a captain who has some grasp of strategy and tactics and who isn't too matey with the rest of the team to make tough decisions when necessary.
Complain about this postThink of the thousands of young people who were inspired by the 2005 ashes win and cricket boomed. Thankfully, or perhaps hopefully, most of them will have the determination, sadly lacking from the England team, to carry on and be the future of English Cricket. Perhaps they will learn from the Australians.
Complain about this postAs an appendix to my earlier post...the players also need to leave their egos at home and remember they're playing for their team and their country...not individual glory!
Rant over...
Complain about this postPlease enlighten me who are the 5 who chose to dine away from the team on Christmas Day , obviously Kevin Pietersen is one but that really only confirms his lack of commitment to team ethics which have followed him from Natal to Nottinghamshire and onwards to England .
I am living in Dubai so have received the Channel 9 TV feed and once again Messrs Benaud , Nicholas and Slater have been a pleasure to listen to .
Complain about this postJason @ # 639 - Actually, I don't think that you would like to face Jason Gillespie just at the moment. He is still a fine bowler and has recaptured his old form - has been one of the bowling standouts in the Pura Cup competition this year. I would back him to do a job on England if given the chance again.
Complain about this postAs an aussie who has been looking forward to this series for since kasper gloved one to the keeper instead of wearing it, I am delighted we have won but dissapointed about Englands lack of a spine. As an ex player and coach of no great note a few things have made me shake my head.
Complain about this postWhy do England play 4 seamers and a spinner? 4 front line bowlers is enough. You are a batsmen short. Flintoff is a great all-rounder but he is not a specialist bat. Pick another batsman for 6. Flintoff at 7. To see him come in at 300/5 would send shivers. He should opening the bowling.
Pick your best keeper, regardless of batting ability. You already have a number 7, if the keeper bats at 8 or 9 and just sticks around, that is enough. Any more is a bonus. Read seams to fit that bill.
Panesar looks like a bowler who can take wickets, but is not a defensive bowler. Why set defensive fields to a wicket taker? Back him to break through or don't play him at all. If I was Panesar bowling to those fields, I might have a few words for the captain.
I don't know a lot about Strauss as a captain, but asking Flintoff to take wickets, make 100's and captain is asking a lot. The last players that good was Sobers. Flintoff aint him.
Harmison seems unhappy or distracted. If he's only 99% there, he shouldn't play.
Never have Giles, Jones or Trescothick play again. Ever.
Lastly, set attacking fields wherever possible and actually try and win the game. The fields set are incredibly negative at times, I don't know why you would not back your very good (at times) bowlers to take wickets.
Hope I am not being condescending. Just amazed that the bleeding obvious isn't happening.
For anyone who is still banging on about umpiring decisions affecting the outcome you should remember that both Cook and Strauss were also plainly plumb lbw in England's 2nd innings and both given not out (twice in Cooks case - one of which was the most plumb lbw not given that I can remember since the Pietersen non lbw to Brett Lee when he went on to make that match winning 158 in 2005).
Could either Cook or Strauss go on to capitalise on their good fortune and drag England back in to the game as Hayden did? No - they were simply not good enough - the Aussies got them anyway. Bottom line - if you're good enough you take your chances. If not you just whinge about bad luck and poor decisions. Thus endeth the lesson.
Complain about this postI have not felt so depsondant about the state of English cricket since the 2-1 home defeat by New Zealand in 1999. I think this series loss is much, much worse though. I remember watching Mark Ramprakesh batting with the tail, fighting hard for a draw. It was quite painful to watch, but at least he was giving his all. I have followed the team for years, and have been thrilled with the results of the last few years. The summer of 2004 was a highlight for me and being at the Oval on the last day of the Ashes last year to see us win, was just an amazing experience.
To see the team playing well and as a unit and as has been said many times by the players, revelling in each other's success was a delight to watch. This is the difference with the team now, they all look resigned to their fate of a 5-0 loss. It's as if they just want it all to be over and to come home. For the first time ever, I think I will not even bother to watch this match. I just can't face seeing us being thrashed.
Complain about this postOne man does not make a team but i believe giving Andrew Flintoff the captaincy was a mistake as he has clearly lost his impact as a player with the additional burden placed on his shoulders. It appears to be shades of Ian Botham, Flintoff is clearly a fantastic player but he is expected to perform with both bat and ball and as a captain aswell which is just too much. With the exception maybe of Kapil Dev for India how many all rounders have converted into decent test captains. Flintoff is still recovering from his ankle problems and could not be expected to motivate a team when he is clearly lacking form. The whitewash i'm afraid is inevitable and no doubt a similar result in the one day series to follow.
Complain about this postit's time we gave the boys some support instead of a pasting. I think there are doing their best but that isn't good enough. they have gone mentally now. We shoud reveiw coach, captain and team and our grass roots. strauss or vaughan back as skipper and try and get some discipline back into the team
Complain about this postkevfromperth wrote:
"Lastly, set attacking fields wherever possible and actually try and win the game. The fields set are incredibly negative at times, I don't know why you would not back your very good (at times) bowlers to take wickets.
Hope I am not being condescending. Just amazed that the bleeding obvious isn't happening."
Heh. You're not the only one mate.
I think (as has been mentioned before) that given the injuries to some of our Ashes 2005 players, the selectors picked a side to "not lose" games, rather than win them. Duncan Fletcher's choice of tactics seem to reflect this too, indicating a lack of faith in the players selected.
Complain about this postI sincerely hope that the NHS can cope with the huge number of injuries caused by all of these jerking knees.
England have lost this Ashes series comprehensively. Probably 5-0 looking at the way the momentum is going.
However, this needs to be viewed in context, and the frankly ridiculous statements bordering on hysteria that currently abound need to be reeled back in. I appreciate that lots of "pundits" and "armchair enthusiasts" are disappointed with what has happened in Australia. Maybe they're even embarassed, but the level of commentary at the moment is laughable.
England have not played well on this tour. True. They are probably slightly under-prepared. And the intensity of the Australians has been incredible to behold. In 2005 England played to their maximum ability against an Aussie side that played significantly below theirs. Many things conspired and we managed, just, to win the Ashes. And we enjoyed it, as we rightly should have.
Now things have turned around. The Aussies are a better side than they were before (Hussey and Clark have significantly strengthened their team). They are more focussed, and have had better preparations (no late night Symonds drinking binges and losses to Bangladesh in the one dayers perhaps). They've played to their potential, and have rightly dominated.
One of the lessons that we should have taken from the Aussies in 2005 is how to lose gracefully as a public. Nod to the opposition, say we weren't good enough this time around and hope to come back stronger. All that this insane frenzy is causing is more doubt, pressure and resentment within the England team.
We're a long, long way from the darkest days that the England side have ever seen (number 2 is not a bad place to be building a young side from), and we need to maintain a cool perspective. Getting rid of the coach and changing the team (backroom and playing) isn't going to provide even a short term fix.
Complain about this postWhere do you start to try and explain what went wrong? We got the tactics and selection wrong. With each day of each test match played so far one hoped that we would see that spark of quality which we had not so long ago. To be fair the spark did come, but in flicks and bursts.
Monty Panesar's first test match was great, taking eight wickets, but to be fair by the third test it was to late! The momentum was with the opposition by then. Had we kicked off the first test like we did the third, maybe things would have been very different.
The boys need to come home, and need rest, alot of it, not to be sent half way around the world to play in micky mouse competitons, which is what has been happening since we won the Ashes. When we wont them in 2005 the team should have been given time off.
Vaughan back as captain please, get Trescothic back in the team, and please please please play Monty Panesar a little more often guys!!
Complain about this postAll very predictable. A gaggle of former England Captains and former players criticising a team which has been thoroughly outplayed by a better side. The hype surrounding the series was always likely to be ill-placed. After all a stronger England side just managed to beat a weaker Australian side on home soil in 2005. People seem to forget just how close England were to drawing the series and not re-gaining the Ashes. I was much amused by Nasser Hussain's rant. I could not resist reminding myself of the results on the 2002/2003 tour. First three tests lost by 350 plus and a couple of innings defeats. Mmm not much consolation in a closer defeat at Melbourne. But at least England won in Sydney. Hardly a roaring success was it Nasser ?
I am a not a great fan of Duncan Fletcher because I believe that his and the ECB's obsession with the international game has devalued county cricket to such an extent that it is not worth watching anymore. However I will say that his previous ability to disregard the latest media campaign for player X to be included was a great strength. Journalists and former players picking teams do so without having to carry the responsibilty. Sure I think Fletcher and Flintoff have made mistakes but that's a great deal easier with hindsight.
I heard David Graveny on Radio 5 last night. Sensible chap. No excuses - we have been outplayed by a better side, and he recognised a key sporting fact - when the momentum is with a side they can become unstoppable. I hope England acquit themselves well in Sydney but I would not get over-optimistic about it.
Complain about this postFact: Australia are a team in every sense of the word. They have talented individuals but play as a team. England are a collection of individuals and it appears that the favoured few can please themselves.
Duncan Fletcher is too traditional and out of touch - do pieces of paper really make players better players?
The Aussies select on merit and are not afraid to drop anyone who doesn't perform, whereas England select by the favoured few method and hope for a result. Bring back Boycott, Willis and Botham !!
Complain about this postMemo to Duncan Fletcher and David Graveney.
-Please ensure Michael Vaughan is back as captain soon,fitness permitting.If he is not,please hand the captaincy back to Strauss for the one dayers and the World Cup.
Complain about this postGiving Flintoff the captaincy is a decision we could spend a long time regretting.
Also tell KP to gen up on being a team player.
Agree there has been some poor preparation and selections in the tests. And both Ponting and Flintoff's capitancy is unimaginative although Ponting has led with the bat and blessed with a much more talented side so his short comings are somewhat hidden.
However the biggest issue we have in the current side is lack of bowling. Conditions don't suit Hoggard (although he has done a sterling job) and Monty and Freddie have had their moments but to be honest if we had played our 6 best bowlers I think you would find they are still out of form and inexperienced and nopt up to the job
Complain about this postThis series was lost when the ECB caved into Flintoff's media campaign for the captaincy, and dismantled a winning team in favour of the captain's mates.
Is the state of English cricket so bad that an aged spinner who hasn't bowled a ball in a year just walks straight back into the team? Disgraceful.
I knew the way it was going to go when, a few days before the first test, I picked up a copy of Asda's magazine, and was greeted by the sight of 'Rachel and Andrew Flintoff' in a photo shoot for the store's clothes.
I would have thought Flintoff would have had better things to do and more important things on his mind than this.
MESSAGE to the English team: You (and CERTAINLY NOT YOUR CELEBRITY-HUNGRY WIVES) are paid to represent the English nation playing cricket, not rake in as much cash as possible plugging every product under the sun.
Complain about this postI hope you all lose your endorsements.
Well done to the australians for beating a lesser opponent...it reminds me of playing backyard cricket against my brother and the temporary joyous feeling of winning until remembering who and where I was playing. The look of desperation in the eyes of the Australians is simply extraordinary.It clearly means much more to them than to the English. We had our glory last year,enjoyed the taste of it like a fine wine,then passed it on. Australians needs to win in sport like a fish needs water,they simply do not have any other worthwhile attributes to offer the world. Why would the queen hand the australian team MBE's? Cricket is a gentlemans sport,the likes of "Warnie" and Brett Lee are hardly that. Bleach blonde hair and earrings,they're nothing but cashed up bogans/chavs. They may be an unruly and uneducated breed, but some of the cricket was breathtaking. Lets just hope we see some actual opposition at the upcoming world cup.
Complain about this postThis is all a bit much isn't it?
I mean the tour has been a shambles but it is, after all, only a cricket tour; our celebrations in 2005 were thoroughly over the top but so is the Australian crowing now. And all the 'I'm ashamed to be English', 'The country is going to the dogs' stuff is risible.
A couple of good things may come out of this, firstly a few team members will get a rocket and come back home with their places to fight for, secondly it sets up the English summer with tours from WI and India quite nicely - they'll both fancy their chances - and thirdly there might be a possibility of wangling a ticket now that the fair weather fans have all pushed off back to football or sitting in purple-faced incoherent rage at the state of the country generally.
Complain about this postWhy as a country do we deny the qualities of stronger teams - we appear to have the arrogance that no one deserves to beat us - the aussies were better on this occasion - get over it!
England do need to make some changes - suggested line up for Sydney:
Strauss
Cook
Bell
Petersen
Vaughan - Captain
Collingwood
Jones (far better than Read)
Pannesar
Hoggard
Harmison
Broad
send Flintoff home - he is demoralised and not up to it - needs to be motivated ready for the summer.
Complain about this postOh and as for the commentators Agnew really does talk "tosh" - Alex Stewart should be made cricket correspondent if interested. He knows what it it is like to play quality cricket.
Has Flintoff resigned as England captain yet.........?????????
Complain about this postermmm MZ Austrailia doesnt have a queen, or a monarchy since 1986, if you are Austrailian then maybe you need to go back to school.
Complain about this postRe: fourth Test disaster. When the touring side warmed up with three-day games, that didn't mean they should be playing for three-day results in the Ashes series!
Complain about this postSeriously, congrats to Australia. They took stock after the 2005 defeat to England, and they seemed to be the only side to have bothered to have prepared for this winter's series.
Never again should we be so undercooked and crocked when we tour Australia. Reject any future ridiculous itineraries. If the team's not prepared, don't bother sending them out (against any side, for that matter) or further humiliaton will follow.
Please let's not return to the bad old days.
Perhaps next time around Australia should play someone else in the Ashes? Maybe their own 'B' team?!! Heh, heh... Crappy England.
Give back those MBE/OBEs lads, you definitely don't deserve 'em.
Complain about this postPaul #670...
To reply to your post..
I live in Aust and with regards to pt 1, I guess we can only see what the media reports to us, so perhaps the whole Eng team did do the right thing and gave the Aussies a lot of respect but it didn't come across to us that way in the media. My gut feel is not judging by how fired up the Aussie players were for this return match.. Aust have lost to NZ & SA before but I havent seen the players this wounded...Just after the recent 3-0 victory in Perth, an interview was done with McGrath and he described how he hated watching the way the Eng celebrated in 05 and as such he wants to win 5-0 (and he has an Engish wife).. Aust is notorious for playing badly in dead rubbers in the past but one has to ask why the Aussies are so fired up this time to achieve a 5-0 result ?
Pt 4 - I find blogs reflect real sentiments of fans and the number of times that people have mentioned lbws being incorrectly given against England, or if only Vaughan / S Jones were fit.. My view is the umpiring have been poor but the umpires are neutral, so unless the ICC can introduce a foolproof, non sbjective way of umpiring then home teams will always get the advantage.
You're absolutely right about Eng having lots of talent but always underachieve, I personally believe it comes down to having so many fans talking their team up or down depending on whether you're winning or losing, I think if Eng has more fans like you then you will prob celebrate sporting wins more often.
Complain about this postThis shameful performance is a bitter pill to swallow, but it's mirrored by the egregious results of our rugby team and our national football side has won nothing in the last forty years. This would indicate that the administrators of our national sports need close scrutiny. Inept, complacent, out of touch, arrogant, backward looking, too many passengers. Virtually across the board Carlin's comments about 'old farts' in administration seems to be as relevant today as when he said it. The Aussie cricket administrators made sure that they had a side on the field who would play to win. Our administrators failed us. We played like rabbits caught in the headlights.
Complain about this poststev666 -- unfortunately, Australia does have a queen -- the same one who rules over England. Take a look at an Aussie banknote, or a coin. I've no idea what your reference to no monarchy after 1986 is all about. Where were you when we had a referendum on the subject a few years ago?
On matters cricket -- I'm afraid that the weather may intervene to make it 4-0. I hope not, as the only other likely alternative is a satisfying 5-0 whitewash.
To those who have suggested that England has lost due to injuries, may I remind you of the key injuries suffered by Australia in the last series. Australia didn't lose a Test that Glenn McGrath played in -- and one of those we did lose was by just two runs (with a VERY dubious dismissal of Kasper gifting the Ashes to England).
Complain about this postRemember after the last Ashes series all the wailings, gnashings, newpaper leaders and commons' motions arguing that terrestial TV should retain cricket so that the whole nation could have live, uninterrupted access to the actions of our glorious team thrashing the Aussies?
Thank goodness it didn't happen - at least most of us had time to prepare for the humiliation instead of watching it as it happened.
Complain about this postSir, Might I suggest that we insist that Shane Warne bowls a cricket ball with a bell inside it, to assist our batsmen hitting the ball.
Complain about this postDear ECB,
Complain about this postCould I apply for the job of Chairman of Selectors?!!
I did say on this blog a few weeks ago that Flintoff should not be captain. Andrew Strauss would have done a better job.
I would have played Panesar and Read from the start and we would have had a chance.
I even questioned the non inclusion of Symonds and Hussey during the 2005 Ashes third test!
I suspect my skill at identifying players in form and a general positive outlook to life would make me better qualified for the job than the man who is doing it at the moment!
Yes DT. Who were the five? I coach a team and even they, as insignificant as they are, would not have showed that type of disrespect for tradition. I wish everyone would just stop trying to find excuses and face up to the fact that England don't have the mustard for a scrap. When they are up, all is well - gongs, advertising endorsements, tea with everyone etc. When the chips are down, same old same old - wheels come off, disharmony, poor cricket, blame the coach, lack of preparation etc. And the overspill will also be the same - coach falls on his sword, captain resigns and no DVD of this tour.
Complain about this postnick nick (587)
Combine Harvester 1882 Hugh McKay
Differential Gears 1897 David Shearer (as used in your car)
Black Box Flight Recorder 1958 David Warren
Electric Drill 1889 Arthur James
Australian Ballot (secret ballot) 1855 Henry Chapman (used in U.K. from 1872)
Heart Pacemaker 1926
Penicillin Medication circa 1940 Howard Florey (nobel prize)
Bionic Ear 1978 Prof.Graham Clark
Aspro 1915 George Nicholas
Relenza 1996
Just a few of the multitude of inventions by Australians that have benefited millions of people the world over, including yourself on a day to day basis.
Botham atleast does charity walks to help people and make up for his ignorance.
What are you going to do??
I suggest you go and get an education before you get onto forums like this and carry on like a pork chop
Complain about this postEnglish cricket has so many ills and yet still wont admit it after nearly 20 years of inconsistency and sub standard of play. One good series doesnt make you world beaters. When are the people running the game finally going to stop being so arrogant and ignorant to these problems and finally tackle them? You cant keep blamimg the England players as most of this squad have performed better on the world stage before so there is talent there. Its only because of this exposure that some of them are any good. The structure of the domestic season is awful. Too many low intensity county matches with empty grounds and poor skill levels of county players more concerned about their pay packet instead of team spirit and winning mean most of them are not good enough to play at international level. Only the minority have the right attitude and determination to make the step up. I feel the people running the game are letting them down. They are so concerned about how much money they will make that this means a heavy fixture list throughout the county and international calender and players are then knackered as a result of being overworked monotonously. Australia on the otherhand have the perfect structure which is the envy of the world. Players there regularly play a small amount of Sheffield shield games of high intensity which bodes well for the test and one day arena. I have grown so bored of watching Australia thrash every other team that i hardly bother to watch them any more. Unless a series is going to be competitive-WHAT IS THE POINT? Wake up and smell the coffee England, otherwise you might as well begin competing in a league with Ireland Scotland and Wales who could all beat you on their day.
Complain about this postshame on you poms ..... just think how shambolic the 1 day series is going to be.... oh well at least the Kiwis can put up a fight !
Complain about this postNot sure why England even thought they were capable of retaining the Ashes? While English were basking in one off series victory, Aussies hit the trail real hard. Their preparations, however much were derided by the English press, did prove what is missing in this English side.
I do not understand why the English players are so fragile? You rarely see other country players missing series after series due to some injury or other. Doesn't this tell ECB that they do not have a good bench strength? Every series lost is blamed on missing players, but no mention of why the same players keep getting injured often, especially when they have to play an away series.
Coming to Flintoff. Which wise guy appointed him a Captain anyway? The test victory in India was more of a fluke than his Captaincy. Then he gets injured and doesn't even play competitive cricket till he lands in Oz land. He showed his lack of leadership quality in India during the ODIs. Strauss should have been persisted with as Captain. That would have given the team consistency. What do you expect from the team when the Captains are changed like underwear? Then you have a biased Coach who wouldn't listen to logic. He was bent of playing his "favorites" than favoring proven match winners. How did England even expect to match Aussies with all this baggage? It is so silly that whole of England is suffering a heartbreak when the symptoms are apparent since the 2005 Ashes glitch.
I am glad that Aussies proved that 2005 was more of an aberration and now that the order is restored, let's go back and whine, complain and debate about our county system. Let's face it, England sucks at every sport. Why pump up any sport/player when the heartbreak is usually the outcome?
Complain about this postFirst, England did not lose the Ashes. Australia won it.
Second, take it to the chin. Stop looking for excuses. Even if England had played with Marcus, Monty, Mahmood, Read and all the players you think should have played, Australia would still have whipped England.
And finally, one series does not make a great player. So, stop treating Flintoff as the demi-gods you think he is. It took him 7 years to achieve his potential, in one test series !!! To all of the England media prior to this Ashes, Giles was the best off-spinner in the world. I am now waiting for Harmision to score a century so that he would be best all-rounder.
Complain about this postcan i just say that even though i am english, how much respect i have for andrew symonds and mathew hayden for the money they raised for cancer research. I thought that was a real touching thing to do for such a fantastic cause. Fair play to you both
Complain about this postIt's seems somewhat ridiculous to see KP's promotion being analysed and commented about so much. Come on. These guys are professionals. And KP is the best batsman in team, in terms of the current form. So moving from #5 to #4 is a shocker??? That guy mouths off so much about everything around him and how tough he is and how he can take anything dished to him. And moved up one step because the coach and captain want to do something better for the team, here he was coming out and behaving like a listless kid. With such attitude, I think SA's better off without him. He better change his attitude soon or it's gonna hurt the team.
Complain about this postDifferential Gears 1897 David Shearer (as used in your car)
he never invented them,just used them first on a car
Onésiphore Pecqueur (1792-1852) patented it
you know what your talking bout dont ya...lol
Complain about this postRobert (719)
Just to reassure you that we English are not all so narrow-minded. The camaraderie shown between Australia and England (both fans and players) in the Ashes 2005 series and the present one - hopefully demonstrates that the spirit of Cricket lives on even in this cynical age. In amongst your celebrations, i have no doubt that you would have preferred England to have provided more of a fight, more of an entertaining and even contest. the 2005 series was gripping , and would have gone down as one of the greatest n matter who triumphed. We would like to be able to say the same about this one, but sadly we have simply failed to reach the standard.
That some take this as an opportunity to take good-humoured Pom- or Aussie-bashing to zenophobic levels is to ne regretted, and most of us here woud not want to associate ourselves with that attitude. To use an old cliche, It simpl isnt cricket'....(and for a few more Aussie 'firsts', have a look at http://inventors.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ/Ya&sdn=inventors&cdn=money&tm=12&f=10&su=p284.21.140.ip_&tt=14&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.palindrome.com.au/firsts.html
Cheers
Complain about this postAgnew, please enlighten me.
Today England is one of the most pleasant countries in the world to live in and work. While Cricket does not offer the same rewards as Soccer, there is really no shortage of money for cricketers.(today's crop has no reason to worry about want in old age unlike the legendary heroes of English cricket like Brian Statham who were in dire circumstances at the end.)
Then what is wrong? The Bull Dog spirit is dead. England hires South African racists who claim that the current south african cricket regime is racist for insisting that a couple of African and Indian cricketers be included in the twelve? Seriously, players like Pietersen should be kicked out of English cricket without any ado, whether or not he is the only batsman of merit in the present team. Rank mediocrities like Duncan Fletcher are in charge ,people who have no cricket playing abilities but are there because they know someone up there like this bloke Morgan. ( I hope I got the name right)
Perhaps England should field an eleven with players of West Indian, East Indian and Lankan origins with someone like Brian Close in charge.
Complain about this postThe combine was patented in 1834 by Hiram Moore, the same year as Cyrus McCormick was granted a patent on the mechanical reaper
Complain about this postlol
Well at least we can spell, Nick Nick.
Complain about this postAnd Nick Nick, that joke is soooo old. You're like one of those seniles that thinks that if they retell that joke for the 500th time, people will somehow still be waiting in eager anticipation.
Nick Nick, if they laughing, it's either out of politeness or AT you.
Nick Nick, if you want to boast about science, art & lit, it's a good idea not to quote a sportsperson to make your point.
Oh and Nick Nick, you got thrashed in a sports game that you didn't even partake in, so get over it...Nick Nick.
Penicillin Medication circa 1940 Howard Florey (nobel prize)
Complain about this postworking with 6 others at oxford university
aspro is just a product containing asprin
Complain about this postso what ???
joking apart
Complain about this postunlike the aussies, losing at cricket doesnt bother the majority of sports fans in this country(england) because nobody really follows it,cos its boring
football is THE game,before you say we are no good we are rated 5th in the world and only seven teams have won the world cup....heard of 1966 ?......lol
Mark, you say you're an English football fan. It shows. Bringing up 1966? Again, it shows.
Complain about this postWhy do we have so many 1st class cricketers in this country but not have the strength in depth to cater for injuries and loss of form. Whats the population of Australia compared to Englands?
If we are serious about developing 'world class' players then they may have to play abroad for a couple of years, like the Aussies do.
From the age of 16-18 our youngsters are a match for anyone, then they go pro, and thats it! They get stuck into the grind of playing too much cricket. "Bad knock, out for a duck doesn't matter, you'll get another chance tomorrow yound lad". No thats not good enough, elsewhere they would have to wait a week for the next match (if they haven't been dropped already!).
And aother thing, when was the last time we in this series we gave the Aussies some seriosly nasty bowling? Talent and guts, that's what we need.
Complain about this postAs an Aussie it might be unusual for me to feel a sense of disappointment for the English Team and for Freddie Flintoff in particular. I certainly would have preferred a more intense battle.
I hope that Freddie captains again but he has to learned that respect for the enemy is everything in battle (as every great fighter knows). There is such a fine line between victory and defeat, sometimes even a crushing defeat; between an MBE and another lost Ashes series.
For me this failure was built on the euphoria of the 2005 victory and not recognising just how close that series was. But for 2 runs the series would have been 2-1 the other way. Only now do we see how hard Australia fought in that series when things were running against them.
Even as I watched the celebrations in 2005 I thought that if England does not snap out of this dream then they will be destroyed in 2006.
While I am not a fan of the superior attitude of some of the Australian players, there is no doubt that they understand what it takes to lose as well as to win.
Complain about this postnick nick,
Jai Ram ji Ki,
What you say (post 587), succinctly brings forth one more reason why England so consistently loses to the Aussies. Poor, poor attitude hiding under flimsy snobbishness.
nick, nick do you know we Indians taught you the decimal system,much of algebra,astonomy, metaphysics and on and on and on, not to speak of the concept of Karma and Reincarnation. And England's national dish, TANDOORI.
In fact what you learnt from the Greeks is what the Greeks learnt from India. (to quote Professor William Durant of Columbia University in NEW YORK, in a marginal country called America that saved you again and again.)
So much fot the colonial attitude. Sorry nick nick, I really feel sorry for you.
Wahe Guru, Wahe Guru.
Complain about this postIt has to be remembered that Australia played below par during the last series. Besides McGrath was injured at a crucial time and Gillespie was woefully out of form. England played above themselves and had a full complement of players.
Complain about this postThis time England has played below par and are without the services of atleast two players who would made a difference in Vaughan and Simon Jones.
Our expectations were falsely raised in the first place.Australia were always yards ahead of england. To just make matters worse england have played poorly and have been very inconsistent making the gulf even wider. England would have had to play out of their skins to compete with an on par australia anyway
In this Ashes series, it is plain to see that the England players are not aclamatize to the Australian conditions and they do not seem to learn anything from their opponents. The boot is on the other foot in this series as oppose to 2005 when England got the basics right against Australia i.e bowlers placing the ball in the right spots, batters getting behind the good balls and punishing the bad ones, taking the slim chanches that presented itself. this series even when the Ausies were bad in the field, they were still 10 times better than England. England of 2005 was not present and we were told that they were better than 2005. This is DEFINATELY going to be a 5 - 0 white wash, no doubt about it cause England hasn't shown up and the Ausies WON'T allow them to as their coach already indicated.
Complain about this postEngland's biggest problem this whole series is that we have been unable to bowl Australia out twice.On day 2 I went to bed,after watching the morning session,feeling quite confident that I would wake up in the morning with us having a fairly good chance of still winning the test. At last we were bowling line and length and asking alot of questions of the Australian
batsmen.
I could not believe that Hayden & Symonds both scored 150 each, once again we had let the opposition off the hook. Each time during this series when questions have been asked of the Australian team they have come up with the answers, unfortunately the same cannot be said of the Tourist's.
Yes, Australia are the best team in the world,if we are to take there crown we need to have there fighting spirit also. In this series to many of the England players have hid when things have got difficult.
Unfortunately there has been a lack of leadership
on the field. Andrew Flintoff came into this series lacking match practise, to add the pressure of being Captain on his shoulders was a mistake.
Strauss had done a very good job during the summer,why change.
Lets hope the players show alot more pride,passion and commitment than they have shown in the last couple of tests.
Complain about this postIsn't it just a fact that Australia are the best side adn Engladn just were in the wrong place at the wrogn time?
Also how many world class players do we have? Will any be remembered in 10 years time? Where as Australia have true legends, Warne, McGrath Ponting and Gilchrist, to name but four. We need to salute the best team in the world rather than look for short comings in our team. We only won the Ashes, with McGrath injured and a very narrow victory along the way.
2009? Australia must be worried?
Complain about this postI sat on level 2 behind the wicket at the MCG for the three days, just below where Aggers commentated from.
I was surrounded by other cricket tragic spectators who sit here every summer. It is great to renew our nodding aquaintances and share conversation.
I think I can safely say that all us Aussies watched in disbelief as the English Cricket team capitulated. I was able to attend the full five days this year and the test only lasted 3 days! My children were coming on the fourth day and there was no play!
If the English team had half the resolve of the Barmy Army then we might have seen an extra days cricket. What a magnificent group of the supporters the army are and great entertaiment for the crowd who have short attention spans.
One thing guys, booing is rude and usually only reserved by Aussie crowds for umpires and other officials. The sustained booing for Ricky Ponting as he walked to the pitch was very disrespectfull and disappointing.
Complain about this postHowcome crap bowlers like Mahmood never get injured?
Good bowlers like Simon Jones, Flintoff and Harmison are always getting injured.
Complain about this postEngland & ECB have no hope whatsoever until they realize how inspiration works and change their captain-selection policy for starters.
For too long, English sport has been all about image not substance (just like the current Government). One example: guilty of creating captains out of teen idols or heroes - those players who momentarily do something heroic, or worse, those that wear the latest fashions and seem to be 'cool'. Diamond-earringed Flintoff is a good example. Superman he is not, rather an injury-prone talented player who only ever occasionally 'performs'. Neither is he a leader.
A captain needs to be inspirational. Think about it: people who inspire are usually ordinary Joe's who do something extraordinary. If someone with extra talent occasionally demonstrates that talent, that's not inspirational - that's merely doing what he is capable of (and should be doing more often)! So ECB, select a captain who knows what leadership is (eg. Vaughan, Strauss), not someone who occasionally plays to the gallery. The ECB clearly haven't learned from the Botham and Gower years.
Regarding image, rather than kit out each new test or one-day squad in all the latest coordinated England training kit that changes every season, let the players train in their own gear and only allow them to wear the 3 Lions when they have earned their selection in the final 12. Make wearing the 3 Lions something to aspire to, not just another shirt to be collected just for showing up to practice. Simple, some may say "petty" - but that's what I would make this present useless bunch of no-hopers do.
For Heaven's sake, will someone please start thinking about WHY Australians play with such fierce determination and pride, and how this can be translated to the England set-up. Toss out the egotistical, image-conscious, fashion-manequin one-hit-wonders we breed and find some good honest journeymen that can work as a team and inspire each other - under an experienced but not Superman leader.
Complain about this postA lot of reasons have been put forward as to why England have not played as well as they did in 2005.
Poor selections, wrong captain (at least Flintoff is playing his heart out on the field), and poor preperation etc. I would like to put forward another suggestion.
Whom ever is the team psycholgist should be sacked immediately. He/she has done nothing to affect the teams attitude and they clearly do not believe in themselves.
Complain about this postI wonder whether the Queen should take back the gongs that were awarded last year.
Complain about this postThe fact is you don't enter the dragon's den wielding the treasure you stole with only the half the army you stole it with. Without Vaughan, Tresco, and Jones, coupled with injuries to several key players, it was always going to be a monumental task for England to beat Australia at home. Poor preparation, and possibly fatigue from a hectic playing schedule, didn't help. Nor did the selection of Freddie as captain, which, given Strauss' proven ability to step up to the plate, was always a bizarre decision. England are a very good side, and they will learn from this experience. What they don't need right now is a media frenzy destroying team morale, and, perhaps more importantly, the support from their fans. Cricket has been in its most healthy state when English crowds are in full voice, and this is when your team needs you stick by them most.
Complain about this postKevin Willis, well said.
Flintoff, great cricketer, terrible captain. Let him play cricket. Let someone who knows how to balance spin, and pace, as an attack captain the team. Honestly I said that from before the tour. It was obvious. And let's not make that an excuse for Vaughan. He's not ready. Panesar 12 overs. Pace and same old same old, over 90 overs. And Panesar was beating the bat! But he was instructed to play the defensive, Gilo way, with a defensive field. Horrible mis-management.
Hat's off to the Aussie, they kept CRICKET alive. But remember that 8 of their batsmen scored 54 runs! Hayden, Symonds and Warne beat England. So let's not be so down on Mahmood, or Hoggie. They showed effort, and spirit.
Now Fletcher has admitted errors, I'm VERY optimistic about the future. We have in Cook a great Boycott in the making. A future captain I maybe, but let Strauss nuture these guys on the field. Strauss will be good for Cook.
One sub-plot in this series, was how Strauss had to survive very poor decisions when set in at bat, while very poor decisions were made against England. The Umpries need review. Though they made up for it with equally shared poor decisions in Melbourne...
We have in Panesar a rare Bishen Bedi kind of performer. His enthusiasm is infectious. He bats way better than Bedi too! I do not remember Bedi advancing from #11. Panesar might make a #8 one day!
Pietersen is a great player, but has to improve his temperament. Bell hopefully is not a flash in the pan. Read's outstanding performance behind the stumps, and determined effort in front, was great. He must have learned a HUGE amount from playing (and missing!) against Warne.
Collingwood still has things to prove, but could be a solid 5 or 6.
Flintoff is a great player, but should do the Beckham thing and resign as captain, then play on his merits, which are huge. I respect him enormously, but Ponting had the depth of thinking. He played on to kill the England attack in Test 1. Ponting was making a point FOR THE SERIES right then. Flintoff should have done the same in Test 2.
So for the future, let's be optimistic, and build. Bring the new guys in, Broad, Dalrymple, Shah. for example. I'm not smart enough to know exactly the roight mix. But it's all about BUILDING for the future. Let them learn, in the toughest place you can be. Incentivise them...
And for test 5, let's do what business does - huge incentives for winning (the whole crew, on and off the field) and serious losses for losing (the whole crew.)
So, well done Australia. Let's not whine and disregard a great team. Australia, you did cricket proud. Now let's whip your arses by accomplishment, and scare the hell out of you for the futre!
My thoughts from USA.
Complain about this postFirst it was Monty the saviour messiah, now its Vaughan, Tresco and Jones.
Tresco's average during the 2005 Ashes series was 43.10. Highest score 90.
Vaughan averaged 32.60 for the series.
and Simon Jones took 18 wickets at 21.00 - yes great average but only managed to average about 4.5 wickets per game, at home in favourable conditions.
There was never a guarantee they would go well down under.
Get over it people. England only just won with this lot in 2005 and all of a sudden it's like these guys were the invincibles. No excuses - onwards and upwards, no longer backwards. Harping over that special time in history where we regained the Ashes is not living in the now and help nobody (well perhaps our sorrows). It was never going to last unless we learned to improvise, overcome and adapt from year to year. The best teams do. England didn't. That's life unfortunately.
Bring on 2009.
Complain about this postthose who say read is not a good enough batsman for test cricket are making same mistake fletcher did - deciding he isnt good enough with the bat without giving him a chance. he needs to be given a run of 5 or 6 tests, as jones was, to prove what he can do. his performances in the summer and latest test at least merit that. selection must depend on performances and form not on possibly outdated opinions about players abilities
alterations - relieve flintoff of captaincy, get likes of mahmood and panesar to work very hard on their batting, we have had a pathetically weak tail for too long now - even during our successful periods it was weak - and it is crucial that we squeeze every ounce of batting ability out of our tail enders. take as much pressure of flintoff as possible and stop playing him half fit, we could be taking years off his career.
above all recognise that mistakes were made but also recognise we were beaten by a far better side.
Complain about this post719 robert waites I totally agree with you and I don’t think nick nick 587 has got a clue???...
Robert your response is far to intelligent for the likes of him. And probably that is why he has to write his name twice as he must have an inferiority complex….do you get it nick nick…ok ill through another one inn “nick” to make it three nicks…you are Boofhead as we say here in Australia…
Complain about this postCMJ has a dig at KP one of the few players to do well,typical snotty nose attitude of someone who has never played at that level,typical attitude of snooty nose english, have a go at the one who does not conform with the way "one" would like. I am english, my grammer may be wrong but KP one of the few to try and carry the fight,the moment Giles was picked over Monty told the Aussies all they needed to know,the prep was all wrong as was selection,so Mr CMJ have a go at the admin and management you tube not some cowardly attack on the one world class player wehave got SH
Complain about this postNick Nick - we Aussies know nothing of culture. Unlike the English who's soccer fans have demonstrated time and again why Australia is so inferior.
Nick Nick - all you have demonstrated is that you are every bit as ignorant as Botham but without the with wit.
Complain about this postTwo factors that contribute to the decline of English cricket have not been adequately examined. One is the disastrous policy of successive UK governments (beginning with that of Margaret Thatcher) of allowing and encouraging schools to sell off their playing fields. Time was when every school in the country had at least one field large enough for cricket and, from primary schools onwards, youngsters (I was one) used to spend much of their spare time playing and pretending to emulate the heroics of Truman, Statham, Laker, Bedser, Compton, Hutton, May, Dexter - and some of the great overseas players like Sobers. Neither of the schools i attended now has a playing field. Nor do they play cricket. Their pupils no longer grow up with the game.
Complain about this postThe second government idiocy was the failure to recognize cricket as a national sport and allowing test coverage to be sold off to a private company. Only about 30% of UK households can now watch live test cricket.
How many enthusiasts, how many superb cricketers have we lost as a consequence of these twin examples of official myopia?
Universal live coverage may one day be retrieved for the nation as a whole - maybe - who knows - if our results are so bad that the private sector no longer sees money in it.
School playing fields, however, are irrecoverable. They have gone to builders and become a source of profit for private enterprise (like much of the rest of the country). It may be that we have seen the last of the great English cricket teams. For if our kids have nowhere to practice, if they no longer grow up with the sport, how can they learn to love it, to aspire to take the field at Lords and hold that little urn in their hands?
Aggars you don't have to live here and you should be grateful of that. Fortunately the whole of Australia is on holidyas so us ex-Poms do not have to put up with the crowing etc. Funny that the ECB could not agree to Troy Cooleys two year contract.Look what he has done for Brett Lee recently.Why couldn't the team plan properly and not rest on heir laurels? Of course the Aussie team would bounce back, you only hasd to look at the Champions Tophy to see that.
Complain about this postWhether your English or Australian a 3 day test match is Pathetic. Being Australian I was excited to see finally a really good England side and see a tough Ashes contest. Unfortunately for cricket fans we have not seen either.
Potentially England have a team to beat us and I am hoping the One Day series will be a good contest and not a whitewash as well.
Complain about this postdo aussies pay the same taxes as us to OUR queen?
NO! then they dont deserve an MBE do they?!?
Complain about this postAs an Australian its somewhat unsettling, perverse even, to watch the psychological decay of england; a group of men. Increasingly you are are aware that it is no longer a contest, just a brutal dismembering of a team. I'm not sure its sport anymore. And yet u cant take your eyes off it. It's like a road accident; despite the horror u cant look away.
Complain about this postWho cares about cricket results ?
England is a far more diverse and stimulating and tolerant and well educated and humourous land than anything south of the equator.
In England we have so many areas of interest - cricket was last years fun. This year it is metaphysics and little britain.
Complain about this posti think peiterson will come big at sydney
Complain about this postWell, another test and another few mornings of waking up full of dread about what i'm about to hear when I turn on the radio. One positive I suppose is that this only had to happen 3 times during this match...
To lose inside 3 days by an innings after winning the toss is disgraceful. Can't see things getting much better in Sydney. McGrath will probably roll us over in a last heroic display at his home ground. And as for the one-dayers and the World Cup... I think even Kenya and Canada will fancy themselves against our bowling attack of Anderson, Mahmood and Lewis. Fred's ankle will prob restrict him to only a few overs per game. Can someone please tell me why Hoggard has not been included??
Complain about this postI think much of the criticism that has been levelled at the English team from the Australian press has been well deserved. Australians by their nature are highly competitive and will respect any opponent who beat them through merit or who has gone down gallantly in the attempt (rugby world cup and the last ahses series being two recent examples).
Complain about this postGo down meakly like this English team has and you will get no sympathy.
Can you blame our payers for not wanting to spend christmas day with thier fellow players? spend christmas with your family, or spend it with the guys you work with all year round? Cricket players are payed enough now (and international travel works well enough) that they should be able to enjoy christmas with the people they want to.......... Not the people joe bloggs in england expects them too.
The aussies have always had it easy, visiting in the middle of thier winter when nothing happens, we tour aus in the middle of our players off season, and the school holidays for players with children.
This is no reason for our utter uselessnesss, you TMS guys travel, I have traveled, england have traveled, the barmy army travel.... after a while it gets very boring and you just want to go home!
I am embaressed (not just about my spelling) but I know we have a better team in a couple of years time
Complain about this postAs some have already pointed out, things are only going to get worse for England as the summer progresses. I honestly don't know how England are going to lift themselves for the ODI's following an inevitable 5-0 test drubbing. Australia's one day team is in red hot form, the Kiwi's are a tough one day team who always "lift" when they play in Australia.....I can realistically see England going home without a win on the entire tour. How pathetic.....the parallels with English rugby are scary.
Complain about this postThere seems to be a host of scathing comments on this blog not that dissimilar to the stuff written about Australia after 2005. Fortunately for the Australians it was all ignored and they got on with the business of taking a good team and preparing better to produce better performances. The Australian media is exactly the same this time except with pages of print devoted to the problems of England and not with how well the Aussies have done. Ricky Ponting has consistently made the point that the difference between 2006 and 2005 is the Australians producing better performances. They have done what they have been doing consistently for may years in eeking out a small advantage and then building pressure until there seems to be an unasailable lead. For years we have seen all the good teams in the world succomb to this and England in 2006 is no exception.
The MCG game was typical, Flintoff chose to bat and I'm sure Ponting would have done the same, the pitch was doing a bit which saw England get rolled and then Australia 85 - 5. Then Symonds and Hayden got going, very scratchy at first, that partnership was in all sorts of trouble and could have been ended at any time but for an edge or a different lbw decision. Then somehow the partnership was 50 and they thought keep it tight and we might get away with this. Suddenly a small advantage gets bigger and theres a lead the pitch looks flat the tail wags, the games out of reach and the heads drop and its goodbye another test. There is a fine line between success and failure and the Australians try to make sure they are the right side of it, for every part of every game with ruthless consistency.
It will be sad to see Warne and McGrath gone but that leaves Australia looking a much more ordinary side. Clarke looks good but without Warne and McGrath they will be in the same boat as all the other teams and play 5 bowlers instead of 4 and still won't be able to tie up an end. England on the other have a better batting line up than Australia, once Vaughan is back will have a better Captain than Australia and if Harmison can refind form and Simon Jones comes back then England will have a better bowling attack.
Consistent performances and better preparation seem to me to be biggest hurdle once you have the best team. England should go into 2009 as favourites because they should be the number 1 test team by then. It all starts next Tuesday.
Complain about this postI beg your pardon…705 AlexT…you talk about… Australians needs to win in sport like a fish needs water, and we do not have any other worthwhile attributes to offer the world then you gobble on about gentleman’s sport, bleached blond hair and earrings?
What has England done that is so attributable to or in the world lately? Well I won’t talk about sport because youse have been asleep for decades!!!...the only real sports people are the supporters that support England in whatever sports England participates inn eg. the barmy army has shown more energy than your whole cricket, rugby and football teams put together.
And then have a look at your team cosmetics in the last 2005 ashes series…KP looked like a palomino, Flintoff the same (btw they both wear earrings) then you had Jones….don’t come on this forum and start to put your opponents down just because youse are losing and getting thrashed!!!...and may I add that what’s happened in the cricket will happen in the rugby also.
Get a life my friend from over the oceans!!!
We Australians dont need England we are doing quite well at what we do and are more than happy doing it like we do!!!
Complain about this postThe drubbing of England's Cricket team does not supprise me in the least. This is a plague which is endemic in mass particiption sports in the UK.
If we take a look back at the formation of the 2003 RWC winning side and their subsiquent demise many parallels can be drawn.
The RWC Squad spent the best part of 4 years in preparation for the tournament, we didn't win it by accedent. Then, as soon as the team succeded players loose focus, write books, miss training to participate in media work etc. Whilst this was happening the rest of the world were still training hard and aiming to beat the 'world champions'.
The ashes team of 2005 spent most of 2006 basking in the glory of recieving MBE's and the many other awards bestowed upon them, whilst the Austrailians trained harder and bonded more solidly.
This is endemic in all mass participation sport in the UK, the national football teams fail with spectacular frequency and the Rugby League Squad get an annual spanking via the medium of Austrailia.
Selection mistakes were also made, Jones couldn't catch a cold and when his batting failed so badly he should have been dropped for Reid or indeed any one who could catch! Petersen's mind clearly does not join him in the middle with the bat at the moment and indeed the whole squad has a complete one day 'score as fast as we can' mentality. They need to realise that somtimes a Mike Atherton approach is needed. Who was it that once said 'you can't score runs back in the pavilion'?
Complain about this postAs an Aussie I have really enjoyed the BBC's commentary and these blogs. Not because of any sadistic delight in misery inflicted on one's opponents but the sheer mastery of the English language, and inherent humour which our culture's share.
But I do think the awarding of MBEs in 2005 was a mistake, just as it was to your rugby team when it won the world cup (given its lacklustre record thereafter). It was all a bit sad. Such honours should be reserved for true champions who win consistently over time. Genuinely champion English sports stars of the past must have been rolling their eyes in wonder or turning in their graves.
Our equivalent gong - the order of Australia - in general only goes to the most exceptional sportsmen and women who have proved their outstanding credentials over an extended period of time. The current England cricket side has some wonderful players but whether they can constitute a genuinely champion side is something only the coming years will show. And what is left to give them if they do achieve this?
Complain about this postWell done to the Aussies, cant take anything away from their performances and determination. I do feel , however, that we made them look invincible unnecessarily. Our batsmen have a real problem with shot selection and knowing where their off-stump is, and playing accordingly. When the Aussies have lost a few wickets and are in dire straits, they dig in and weather the storm-[no unnecessary wafts at wide or other balls that are not going to hit the stumps]. Our lads seem compelled to take a swish at any thing once the runs stop coming. We need to learn how to defend, defend, and defend again. Only have a go at obviously bad balls. Once the batsman has properly settled in and can see the ball easily and a partnership has been established, then and only then, should the batsman start to take on the bowlers. We seem to throw our wickets away far too easily - really cant do that against the Aussies. Get Boycott in to coach the batsmen on how to defend one's wicket and properly select shots. Flintoff is useless at captaincy and it has also drastically destroyed his form, batting and bowling- Vaughan, for me is the best that we have for the job, he knew when to make the bowling changes and was more astute at field placings. Cook has it in him to be a successor to Vaughan. The bowlers should just stick to proper line and length , wickets will come as long as the bowlers do this consistently; Mc Grath is the perfect example , not out and out pace but consistent line and length. Lastly , Rudi Koertzen has no place umpiring top events like the Ashes- some of his decisions defied belief and really influenced the outcome of the key matches - to the detriment of England. Sorry to mention the umpiring again , but if people are honest with themselves , they have to admit that the course of key matches were turned by certain decisions by bufoon Rudi K.
Complain about this postNearly all of Australia's sporting opponents have to play out of their skins AND hope the Aussies are having an off-day, because most of the time, the Aussies, especially their cricketers, are just too good and more professional.
Complain about this postLook at 2005: complacent Aussie squad, injury for McGrath, other players like Gillespie way off form, playing away, yet England could only win 2 -1 and one of those wins was by 2 runs. My elder son in London now wins £800 from work mates as he bet them last year the margin would be a minimum of 4 - 0, mainly because of Aussie pride and professionalism.
Two more things: lay off KP (look at his performance and those of his team mates); the most important kick in the 2003 RWC Final was not Wilkinson's drop-goal, it was the conversion attempt of Australia's try which hit a post and stayed out - if it had sneaked over there would have been no extra time, and no bus parade.
The 2005 Ashes series was closer than we seem to acknowledge - if the umpire had seen Kasprowicz's hand off the bat at the end of the Edgbaston Test; and if Warne had not dropped Pietersen, when on 15, at the Oval -such fine lines may have been the narrow margin by which the series was decided.
Poor preparation, physically and mentally, before the Australian Tests; and a repeat of the Botham captaincy issue of 1980/81 (his first Test after Brearley resumed the captaincy was his memorable performance at Headingly), seem to be major ingredients contributing to poor strategy as to how best to deploy resources; deficient technique in batting and bowling; lack of mental strength and determination, with consequent low morale.
The ECB members have to consider their position, especially on their continued tenure, the shambolic cricket fixture programmes, and the quality of the total preparation; the coach should leave the stage; and Flintoff should be left to do what he does best - bat and bowl brilliantly for England - not burden him with the trials of onfield deployment of players and the media relations (especially on the most difficult tour of all - to Australia).
The Australian team is the best in the world, and possibly in the history of the game - perhaps more than comparable with the 1958-59, 1948, and 1920-21 Australian teams. It is no disgrace to lose to such a talented team, but it is the manner of the England performance which is so disappointing (and that's putting it mildly).
Complain about this postThe first real issue is one of leadership. We always fall into the trap of appointing the most talented players rather than the most talented leaders. Vaughan is a real captain - Flintoff is not. Strauss should have got the job of those available. The same happened in the rugby after Johnson retired. Corry was and is not a real leader.
The second is that there is too much cricket. It is success for England that drives interest and revenue and not too many matches that exhaust both cricketers and audiences alike - who wants to see another meaningless one day series.
Sadly, not confident of change.
Complain about this postTo my mind anything that brings the removal of Fletcher as manager-coach will be welcome - I've always thought he took too much credit for successes due to the players, and not enough responsibility for foreseeable difficulties. I would also welcome anything that brought the reinstatement of Strauss as captain. Flintoff is clearly one of the best all round cricketers anywhere but I don't believe he yet has the maturity and analytical grasp to be captain - Strauss has both.
Complain about this postI feel compelled to reply to Dave (post 592), he may not recall that the team beaten by England in 1978/79 contained such well known test players such as Hurst, Toohey, Maclean, Wright, Carlson & Laughlin (all fine Shield players in their day). Border was playing in his first series together with Kim Hughes.
Given the absence of Lillee, Chappell, Marsh, Mallett, Walker, Gilmour, Thomson and others I was not surprised the series was lost to an England side not as affected by World Series Cricket.
Most of Australia was more interested in how our 1st team doing was doing against the West Indies or the World XI rather than how the 2nd XI was performing. Any whinging you recall (real or imagined) was more to do with level of satisfaction the English obtained from beating such a 'strong' Australian side.
If the result of that series somehow gives you comfort, so be it.
Having said that I am surprised at the level of criticism being levelled certain players and while my knowledge of the internal workings of the ECB is limited it would seem that many of the off-field distractions such as families, Vaughan (will he, won't he) and Jones being a selector of sorts while Graveney was here only by virtue of a tour group (according to our media) could have been easily avoided. This would have made things a lot easier for an understrength playing group that needed 100% from all players to remain competitive with an opposition that has as many batting and bowling alternatives that Australia does.
Fletcher is of course a different matter and he deserves all he gets.
Complain about this postHoly smoke - I can't believe how tough the English are on their own teams! Such a barrage of abuse and sneering criticism! Because England lost badly? If you think it's bottle that wins games then you'll go on losing. The reality is England's star is rising because it's now got some real talent as well as the organizational commitment to back it up. The next Ashes series will be close. But if you go on questioning the virility of your own team you deserve nothing but failure and defeat.
Complain about this postAnd so to Sydney – a round too far in this Ashes “no contest”. Surprises do happen in cricket (how could this Aussie team have nearly lost a Test match to Bangladesh only nine months ago?) but England aren’t on the ropes, they are down and out, gasping for breath and wanting to get the hell out of the ring. Well it’s Warney’s turn for a hundred and that would make it eight in the team who have at least one in this series. I wouldn’t put it past the old thespian to make his last tread on the boards an Oscar winning and nail-biting ton. For England there is talk of playing for pride, but pride usually goes before the fall not after. Getting up off the canvas in order to be hit down again will be an achievement in itself. It can’t be much fun – as Orson Welles once said “When you are down and out something always turns up - and it is usually the noses of your friends.”
Complain about this postLet's see how much England are thinking about winning the Sydney test. It is always a turner and a lot of State teams playing there pick 2 (and possibly 3 on occasion) spinners. Aus are to keep the same team, so it will be Warne + Symonds as the spinners. That's a bit of a change from the normal 2 spinner policy. Obviously Aus didn't want to drop Symonds to bring in MacGill, so there is a chance at an advantage if Eng have a 2nd spinner to bring in & if they are willing to take a chance to win (assuming a standard SCG turner).
Complain about this postThe balance of the team has been wrong since the outset. To win or even just draw in Australia we have to have our four main strike bowlers firing (and I include Panesar in that quartet). Let's face it a fifth choice bowler hasn't got a hope of winning us the game if the big four fail - unless your surname's Jones but he's been out of the equation for months. From the start we should have had an extra batsman in the team and matched Gilchrist with Flintoff at No. 7, that way we could at least apply some pressure on the Aussies by posting a half decent score allowing Panesar to bowl from a position of strength rather than when the Aussies were crusing past our hopeless scores. The team for Sydney will be far better balanced with Dalrymple in the side but I'd still have taken Key on tour and stiffened the top order allowing our flair players to play their natural game further down the order. Hindsight is 20/20 but once Trescothick left the tour wasn't it absolutely plain to see we needed another grafter in the side? Australia derservedly won the Ashes but England did their best to lose them.
Complain about this postWe won by a gnat's whisker in 2005. Since then Australia have brought in Hussey and Clark and are 20% better. We are at least 20% worse for so many reasons, mainly beyond our control. And Australia are at home. And mad as hell.
I went to the first 2 matches with a group of supporters. To a man we thought if England only lost the series by 3 Tests they would have done well. With some avoidable errors and not much luck it is going to be 5-0 but England are not a bad team and have tried hard. It's just that this tour was never going to be the success the more ignorant sections of the media hoped for.
Complain about this postAs an Australian, I'd hope and more to the point expect Australia to defeat any other nation's cricket team, to do otherwise would suggest we are wasting our money. Head for head we spend more money on the game than any other country in the world. We invest more in training and off and on field supports and management. To say we have bought international dominance in the sport is not too much of an exaggeration. In regards to the broader issue of sporting excellence few countries in world spend per capita more on sport than Australia and those that do are not cricket playing countries. The relationship between sporting dominance and national investment goes hand in hand and it is difficult to mount a convincing argument to the contrary. England chooses not to make this investment and invests in excellence elsewhere; the results are there for all to see.
So England gets beaten by Australia again, apart from the aberration of 2005; it has ever been thus since Australia started to pour money into the sport, just look at Australia's win loss ratio pre and post 1987. This statistic alone would suggest that unless other countries begin to match Australia's investment the post 1987 status quo will persist.
I suggest that the odds of England matching Australia in the future are very slim. The over the top post-2005 Ashes victory celebrations in England reflected as much a recognition that it was such an unexpected victory that it had best make the most of it as it was unlikely to happen again in the foreseeable future.
So I'll make a prediction, two years hence in England, Australia will retain the Ashes. Further, a new crop of Australian star performers will emerge and England and its collective media will continue as they have over the last 20 years (with the brief exception of 2005) to present the same arguments and prognostications regarding team spirit, selection, batting order, fielding, bowling strategies etc etc etc as they have in the past and are likely to continue into the foreseeable future.
When Australia lost the Ashes in 2005, the national expectation was that they would win them back in 2006. Going into 2008 there will be the same grim uncompromising determination that 2005 will not occur again. The English will not be allowed a time in the sun for some time to come.
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Complain about this postWell said Mr Agnew. As for Mr Pietersen I came into contact with him during his early years with Nottingham. I would not question his enormous natural ability but he has to play for the team as well as himself. Otherwise he would do well to take up golf. Too many times at Notts I felt, perhaps wrongly, that his heart was not in the cause and sure enough he would be walking back again within minutes. But when things were going right one of the best entertainers in the world.Pietersen owes it to himself and the world of cricket to sort things out--and quickly . As for the rest of them--it is all so sad. Did it all begin when they took Read and Monty as first choice players and then left them on the park bench? Over 50 years of cricket I have never minded losing but please do not offer excuses for four successive defeats to a bunch of " pensioners".
Sorry, Andrew, but in 1978/9, England had been hard-hit by Packer defections, losing two world-class players in Knott and Underwood, a batter who had scored hundreds in three successive Ashes tests, Bob Woolmer, plus the man responsible for revitalising the England side, and a pretty good all-rounder to boot, Tony Greig. The difference was that England had some decent quality players to take their places in Bob Taylor, Edmonds/Emburey, David Gower and Ian Botham whereas Australia's replacements didn't quite cut the mustard. This difference in strength in depth would be further illustrated in the next decade when the simulataneous retirements of Lillee, Marsh and Chappell G heralded the start of a dismal five years for Australia. Today, the opposite is true; Australia has a deep vein of talent waiting to be tapped, whereas England, although in possession of a very strong 1st choice XI, simply doesn't have anything like the necessary replacement talent in reserve...at least, not yet.
Complain about this postIn reply to Andrew post 774
Complain about this postYes I am well aware it was the time of Kerry Packers world series jaunt. I also realise Australia were hit hard with the dept of talent that played in the series, while on the other hand English players in the main decided to stay loyal to their country and the true concept of test cricket. Having said that though there was still a very useful bunch of cricketers from England that did chase the mighty packer dollar, such as Gooch, Greig, Amiss, Dereck Underwood and a couple of others that certainly would have got into the England team playing the 78/79 series. I am certainly not trying to compare the talent that was missing from both teams or even deny that the ashes games could have had a different outcome if all your talent had been available, but the fact was that it was still an ashes series between the old enemys and for you to say that most of Australia was more interested in the outcome of the packer series is a joke. The Australian press was scathing in its reports on the performance of the team , and yes there was whinging aplenty from most sources, not iimagined on my part. I have lived in Australia in 45 yrs Andrew and I do remember when Australia were going through a very bad patch until Ian Chappell changed things around , but when Australia was struggling the whinging and carry on by you guys was no different to how the England team are being treated now by some of their supporters. It's so easy to say that we don't do that when you have been so dominant for so long and maybe just lose the odd series, knowing that your going to bounce back in a very short period, but Andrew my friend your no different from other supporters when it comes to seeing your team underperform for a sustained period.
these results should not have surprised
Complain about this postanyone
a bunch of overated cricketers
with a poor coach and even worse
people above
its a wonder they have one any games
over the last few years
We won a lucky Series last time around and basked in the glory of how great we were. The Aussies went home, planned, plotted, practiced and waited in the tall grass. If every cricket enthusiast and player outside of the current Test (?) set-up expected this, what did the existing crew of highly paid selectors et al expect? Thank God I am currently on holiday in Canada so I can't watch Sky and become even more depressed!!
Complain about this postThe English cricket team can now join the English football team and the English rugby union team and become part of a "hat trick "that no other country would ever take away from them.They are all gutless and a disgrace to their country,and not one of these three mobs can cut it on the worlds stage.I feel the same about our
Complain about this post"cricketers" now as I did about the other two bunches of failures earlier on in the year.
How can England win when their so called opening bowler ,Harmison, cannot be bothered to do his job? Flintoff has had to do it for him.Hopefully broad or another bowler will soon be able to take his place. As a team there must be some underlying resentment due to this lack of commitment.
Complain about this postWill these English flop's be made to return all the Queens honour's they were presented last year after winning the previous ashes series, and when they return to the UK be made to parade through London again in their open top bus again so the crowd will be able to pelt them with rotten tomatoes and rotten eggs
Complain about this postToo much has been made of whether Pietersen should bat at 4 or 5. Why change something that has worked - an average of 50+ speaks for itself ? If the guys batting ahead of him had done their job .......?
Complain about this postAs for Fletcher or whoever makes the decision on selection to not play Panesar and Read shame on you. Ok Panesar can't bat or field for toffee but only last summer he was hailed the best finger spinner in the world, but not now good enough for England. To bring back Jones ahead of Read based on his ability with the bat on hard decks proved a bad shout. Read did a good job last summer but based on his showing at the ICC Trophy was dropped from the test squad.
The return(?) of Vaughan will relieve the pressure on Flintoff and Simon Jones needs to recover asap. Then all we need is Harmison to find his radar, the top order to perform as a unit and hey presto life is a box of chocolates!
Although it is of course only sour grapes, the performance of umpire Koertzen during the third and fourth tests certainly hasn't helped the England cause. At least three times in Adelaide he gave English batsmen out [Strauss twice] when technology has shown that there had to be considerable doubt. I suspect that the authorities had words with him for in Melbourne he refused to raise a finger for a considerable time which included turning down very plumb LBW decisions involving both Hayden and Symmonds when England were bowling well.
Complain about this postThese woeful decisions by a test umpire who is well past his best may not have influenced either match result but please don't tell me that he is standing in Sydney.
Flintoff has showed that he isn't a very good captain, with his bowling, batting and his ankle injury he seems to be overworked. Monty Panesar is supposed to be an attacking spinner, so why set a defensive field with 5 men in the out-field. Hoggard was bowling well and had some good shouts for Hayden lbw on the first day. Also, KP should have been at number 4 when he was playing in England, batting at 5 and with Flintoff not batting well Pietersen has been left exposed to the tail. Pietersen getting out for a single was a one-off, I think if England keep putting him there they'll almost certainly reap the benefits. Read played very well, and has showed that he is a better 'keeper than Jones is. His batting looked ok in his knock of 26 not out, very fine player and should have been in the England team at Brisbane. Now just hope that England have a good World Cup in 2007 and Vaughan is fit.
Complain about this postDear Sirs,
Complain about this postare we as a nation so afraid to show excitement if we win at anything?the eyes of the world have been watching from a distance at the gradual slob attitude in all we have to show as latent sports people!
My Father of 86 years has played many sports all at top level,his comments at present dictate the apathy of commentators and selectors towards the present.You English don,t have the balls to do anything with pride or dignity.In essence you have certainly lost the true direction of any sport, to be entertaining at winning!
yours Ken Bainbridge
Dear Sirs
Mr. John Arlott would be ashamed.
YOURS kEN bAINBRIDGE
Complain about this postLets get this in perspective. Unsurprisingly, England have been crushed by a better side. However, has anybody died as a result ? No of course they haven't. Has it made Australians as a breed any more likeable ? No of course it hasn't. Will we regain The Ashes next time ? No, of course we won't. Will it make Auatralia as a nation anything more than a third world country in terms of international influence ? No, of course not.
So England supporters, lets stop beating ourselves up and Australians, be a bit humble, you've just won a few games of cricket that's all.
Complain about this postWhat a great shame that the England selectors didn't and haven't learnt from the Botham fiasco of the 80's
Complain about this postThe hype and bullishness of winning the ashes should been curtailed and application put in place to ensure we retained them.
Injuries aside the selectors made a complete mess of the team selection and management.
I hesitate to guess that it will take another 17 years to win them back again.
We have totally un done all the hard work and celebrations of last years win by this thrashing. It is so frustrating to watch a good England team go out their and play so poorly. We need to win this last game and try and find some dignity, otherwise this is just another embrassing scar on the teams confidence. Hopefully we can have some better luck now that Warne and some top class Aussie have retired. Good Luck boys, want this more than any and you might just pull it off.
Complain about this postHi,
I am one of those who support England through think and thin, But I must confess that I feel i get scant reward from the England side for staying up every night not missing a minute of this dreary Ashes series.
I eat and drink cricket, I help run a cricket forum - I find it hard to post possitive comments.
Take Adealaide (please) I wanted Flintoff to bat Australia into the ground instead of decaring on 550. that's how much confidence I had in the side.
England lost the ahses at Adelaide, a draw would have been good because only one win was needed.
Had England got a draw out of that match - and got about 700 runs, Australia would not have ben so cock a hoop.
Last year I was ridiculed for standing firm saying England would win back the Ashes, but this time there has been an inevitability about England defeats since the GABA, when so many players get caught behind, that'sback to the bad old days.
Sorry for being so pessimistic, but I find little cheer from these players with no guts.Warne is only a man.
Complain about this postIt was obvious after the Ashes win the summer before last (which included the embarrassing overblown celebrations) that the Australians would be fired up and prepared to take England apart, this they have now done comprehensively, unfortunately we have again fallen in to the trap of believing that winning once is enough, we need to learn from the Australians.
I also believe that the Queen should be even handed with the ‘Honours’ and special mention should be made for Warne, McGrath and Ponting for services to the game.
Congratulations to Austraila on getting the Ashes.
Complain about this postAustralia has a flourishing and FIERCE local cricket competition. We have a myriad of amazing, experienced upcoming cricketers unable to get into the national side.
Bad luck England! The retirement of some of our senior players will not weaken or leave gaps in the team. The configurations will just change.