England's dwindling team spirit exposed
To lose by an innings within three days was a really feeble effort, but such is the mental state of the players, and the lack of cohesion within the team, that it is not a surprise.
An example of the chaotic thinking was Kevin Pietersen's move to number four this afternoon.
It was not before time - he should have been batting there throughout the series - but this happened half way through this match, and only after it had been written that he had declined the request to bat there in the first innings.
He looked thoroughly aloof when he walked out to bat, and a loose drive resulted in his being bowled for only a single.
This, combined with the discovery that up to five players opted to do their own thing on Christmas Day rather than enjoy the time honoured tradition of spending Christmas lunch together, paints a picture of a group devoid of real team spirit in the true sense.
All criticism of England has to be tempered with a respectful nod to the Australians for the focused, determined and disciplined cricket they have played ever since losing the Ashes last year.
This has to be the legacy of England’s disastrous tour - either they take heed of the way the Australians coped with their defeat, or they will learn nothing from this.
All we ask of Andrew Flintoff's men in Sydney is that they play with every ounce of pride, purpose, commitment and consistency that has been lacking thus far.
There is no shame when, having given everything, you lose to a better opponent. But the players need to show the doubters that they have spirit.
The fact is, though, that 5-0 beckons for only the second time in Ashes history. For Australia, this will bring redemption. For England: humiliation and recrimination.
Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
Or does she only do that for her English cricket team?
Complain about this postEvery morning I wake up hoping that England have made a game of it!
I have now given up!
We can no longer bask in the glory of 2005, as we have been thoroughly embarrassed.
Complain about this postJonathan is absolutely correct that the England team has lost all vestiges of team spirit, but we should not underestimate the contribution of the Australians to this unhappy state of affairs.
England have not been allowed to compete, and have hardly won a session of play in the whole series.
England's team spirit was there at the start of the series, but the ruthless efficiency of the Australian side has utterly destroyed it.
Complain about this post"All we ask of Andrew Flintoff's men in Sydney is that they play with every ounce of pride, purpose, commitment and consistency that has been lacking thus far."
Whilst I thoroughly agree Aggers, the boys have been promising this since Adelaid and there's been little or no sign of it. Watching them on the field today they really looked like they'd given up.
After Losing the series in 3 matches I thought it couldn't get worse, but to lose by an innings in 3 days...
Complain about this postTwo of my favourite sporting moments of 2006: Zidane's head butt and Australia's relentless domination of the English cricket team. Poor team selection and inadequate team spirit resulted in English team's demise Down Under. I hope Andrew Flintoff does not stay at the skipper anymore. It is time for some changes in the management system of English cricket. English team are mentally fatigued, physically tortured, and psychologically humiliated at this point in time. Let's hope for good times ahead. Well done, Warne!
Complain about this postPathetic!
This reminds me of the Botham cptaincy era. Devoid of leadership. Devoid of discipline. When will the selectors leaen that your best player does not make your best captain!
Complain about this postWhat irritates me is that there will be recriminations if England lose 5-0, even knowing that the team are injury-depleted and Australia are the best side in the world. OK, give the captaincy to someone else; but let's wait to see how England perform against a lesser side before deciding to make wholesale changes.
Complain about this postAbsolutely right, Aggers... However, apart from the Urn being returned to Australia after 2005, the Aussies want to take the English 'PRIDE' which was thrust down the Aussie cricket team's throats in 2005 wiith week long drinking benders, lunch with the Prime Minister, open top bus victory parades (already organised even before the last game of the series was completed- VERY SPORTING OF THEM!), the whole country joining in to sing Jerusalem, commemorative stamps, DVDs, OBE's and several premature autobiographies, all in tribute to a team which held the Ashes for the shortest reign yet. After a 4-0 whipping, it all seems ridiculous now, doesn't it?
By the way, does this mean that the English (and Pietersen and Strauss) cricket team will have to give their OBE's back?
I certainly hope so.
Complain about this postIt's a great football season this year
Complain about this postWhy don't u English admit that you guys were simply outplayed cos you're not up to standard to the demands of world test cricket?
Complain about this postYou are completely right, what a shambles, l have followed England over here in Dubai for years and l cannot believe how sudden we crumble under pressure. They need there heads looking at. Yes, we can bat, and yes the aussies are great, but please, they need to die at the crease, show some real bottle. I watched a team that are embarassed and cant wait to go home. Am interested to see if any of them pick up injuries so they dont have to stay for the one dayers! Come on lads die for the shirt.....
Complain about this postI agree totally with MZ, the England team should be ashamed of their efforts, no will to fight etc.
Complain about this postThey should all hand back their stupid honours from last years streaky Ashes win.
It just shows what an outdated system both cricket and the honours are in England!
Chris Read, left stranded with the tail, was the not out batsman at the end of the England innings with the second highest score of the English batsmen behind the opener Strauss.
Time for him to move up the order?
Complain about this postOr time to relieve Flintoff of the captaincy which is ruining his game and at which he is only third rate anyway.
The horror show of this Ashes for England is evident across all sports where we claim greatness - cicket, rugby and football. The Southern Hemisphere Nations have again showed how their determination, organisation and commitment have rapidly brought England rugby and cricket teams down to earth soon after we have donned the mantle of being the best in the world, whlst the football team regularly flops when presented with real challenges. Despite the talk of 'professionalism' in all three sports, the players, coaches, management and whole hierarchy of these three sports need to quickly learn from this what the true meaning of professionalism is, and that is far more than just being paid to play, and taking the money irrespective of the performance. Well played Australia.
Complain about this postThe inflexibility of the selection is stunning. England need to understand 5 bowlers is an outmoded concept. Flintoff is too high at 6 Reid should be at 8.The batting is fragile beyond belief and can't maintain the luxury of a 5 man bowling attack. Collingwood and Peterson can share 5th bowling duties as both compare favourably to Symmonds as bowlers.
Complain about this postIts was an inflexible irrational desire to play 5 bowlers that resulted in picking a spinner (Giles) way past his best and out the game for a year instead of Panesar because of worries about the tail as well as dropping the best wicketkeeper to bolster the tail. Why 5 bowlers why? why? why?
"Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
I sincerely hope you're not suggesting she should??? Anyway would they want them?
Complain about this postWell, we have now run the whole gambit of whinges and excuses during this series. Lack of preparation, wrong Captain, poor management, wrong team selections, injuries to players, bad calls by umpires, the sneaky Aussies pinching our bowling plans and the rest.
We complain that Panasar and Mahmood should have been picked from the start, (Wait till we bowl with Panasar and Mahmood, things will change was the much quoted ramblings of the 'experts') we picked them in Tests 3 & 4 and still got thrashed. We brought in Read for Test 4 and he was probably one of the few players who gave his all, but we got absolutely hammered.
Yes, we can look at all the above, but it should not cloud the fact that we were thrashed by a better prepared team, a committed team, a team that played as a team, a team who was captained by a better captain, a team with better bowlers, batsmen and fielders, a team that was hungry to win. So the bottom line is England did not lose the Ashes, they were won by Australia, a far better team.
Complain about this postAs a Coventry City football fan I am used to humiliating defeats an a regular basis!
However, this latest "team" performance was the worst I have witnessed. Maybe the Coventry City football team could have done better?
Australia will now surely win 5-0. England can only blame themselves for poor team selection, negative captiancy and wayward bowling all playing a large part.
English cricket is now in ruins thanks to Fletcher and co. The sooner Vaughn and Simon Jones are back, the better.
The only positive out of this series has been Monty Panesar's briliance (shame Flintoff and Fletcher didn't show faith in him earlier).
Complain about this postStrauss is still sulking over not getting the captaincy, Bell and Collingwood found out at the highest level, time for a real think re Flintoff, time to play him as a specialist bowler he is clearly not an all rounder get shot of Harmison.
Complain about this postWell Well Well ........ 5 nil its 100% on the cards .... Warney bamboozling england batsmen again in Sydney and Aussies taking the back the Ashes in Grand manner .... As geoff boycott will say " My mother could play better then the whole of england team " ..... come you Aussiez do it for Warney and McGrath ....... shame on you poms...
Complain about this postPersonally I would welcome a 5-0 defeat, the England team have been in a false position since the last ashes - their egos galvanised by a hysterical reaction to winning back the ashes, the 'parade' and the ridiculous handing out of gongs.
Time for some modesty, humility and a reality check.
Complain about this postIf adelaide was a dissapointment then Melbourne had to top it. Even more dissapointing then the lack of spirit was the utter lack of respect for the travelling fans who have ventured many miles to see their belobved team play. We sang and sang until we were politely asked to leave by the ever so patient ground staff & at no point did our beloved England side make an apperance. If this team really wants to thank us why doesn't it come and say so!
Complain about this postAs if it matters whether it is 3-0 or 5-0 , last year bar the rain England would have won 4-1. England are away, they came without some key players,arrived only 3 or so days before the first test so probably weren't that motivated...so when at full strength they beat Austrlaia so dont be too harsh on them. Everything comes around.
Complain about this postAbsolutely pathetic. Everything about this sorry country, which still claims to be a "World Power" is crumbling. Get shut of these aloof idiots & for God's sake, the coach has got to go. It is an embarrassment to be English.
Complain about this postMost hilarious moment of this test? Geoff Boycott repeatedly sniggering at Andrew Symonds yesterday, saying he would be lucky to last until lunch and was not a test batsman. I turn off the radio and get some kip. Turn back on again after tea. Symonds has 150 NO.
Arise, Sir Geoffrey!
Complain about this postI am concerned that the miserable performances in Australia will undermine the surge in enthusiasm for cricket that followed last year's triumphs. All my 'non-cricket' friends have been adopting a 'told you so' attitude and my enthusiasm for Kent's upcoming season has been met with incredulity. It's such a shame. This series has put back the popularity of cricket in this country years. The return of national ennui, in football, rugby and now cricket, is a really depressing way to start 2007. Hopefully the England team can crush Australia in the 5th test and go on to win the World Cup. I would not bet my mortgage on either.
Complain about this postOkay, but really, England "surely" favourites for 2009, you're kidding right? Can i please get some confirmation on this?
Complain about this postThanks.
Let's look at the mathematics:
Hayden + Symonds + extras > [the entire England team] x2
Only England batsman with any sort of decent average - Strauss.
Having spent numerous years following England from the early 80's, when they have almost always seemed to have a couple of good batsmen but erratic bowlers and a fragile middle order, I was happy to see the improvements under Hussain and Vaughan finally resulting in the 2005 performance - particularly in the bowling and fielding. Sadly, the bad ol' days are back, 2006 has decidedly undone the good work.
Can a professional cricketer - maybe Boycott himself - answer this question please: what is the effect of having a number of people in the team who have at one time been captain? is it disturbing? I am thinking of a possible team including Vaughan, Trescothick, Flintoff and Strauss, and wondering whether it is tenable.
JNW
Complain about this postAll of the country is not only celebrating 4-0 but the bowling plan fiasco is something out of Monty Python. It is one of the funniest things that I can remember happen in cricket. The jokes are coming faster than an outgoing eng batsman dissapearing from the ground.
What was the batting plan today , no suncream, don't take guard and don't be long because we want tomorrow off? Did they think of trying to hit the ball. Did you hear the batting plan was formulated in the Pentagon (ministry for Iraq planning).
I don't remember a genuine funnier incident (maybe a roni irani diving attempt to stop a 4).
Please can eng give some fight and lets see a memorable last test. Play an extra bat for a bowler.
Since the 'bowling plans' ended up at ABC radio and aggers works there , could he give more detail about what happened. Did aggers know about the plans?
Complain about this postNice to see Australians displaying as much sporting grace as we did last time round! It's hard to hold on to that moral high ground if you keep on running down here to put the boot in.
Complain about this postJust bring the team home now, they have become an embarrassment. This is torture for us Brits.
Complain about this postWhat a shambles! Is there no one in this England Team prepared for a fight? Where is this so called team spirit that helped us win the Ashes in 2005? Yes, Australia have been good, but if we are all honest, England have made them look a lot better! Australia have just been consistent and when it really mattered during periods of each Test Match, Australia have stepped up and said, yes we want this so much and you can see that from the results. Where do we go from here, I do not know, surely in the 5th and final Test, every player must die for the cause to avoid a whitewash and the total embarassment of loosing 5 tests, even if it is the best team in the world! Even though it pains me to say this, I think that Stuart Clark for Australia has been the most consistant bowler throughout the series, and when you think that includes, Mcgrath, Warne and Flintoff for England, they have found a real star and probably made McGrath's decision to retire so much easier! Let's hope that the players can salvage some pride in Sydney.
Complain about this postIf this test series teaches the England selectors and fans one thing, let it be that Freddie is not an inspirational or even capable captain.
As we watch the team stagger from assault to disasterous assault, the real inspiration needed within the team to get them lifted and fighting has been missing. Freddie has failed to perform with both bat and ball, whilst his captaincy is woefully lacking in intelligence and belief. As a result we have seen England carrying a captain unworthy of the role.
For England to reap the true inspiration provided by Freddie, he needs to be relieved of the burden of captaincy. It does not suit, and England will benefit all the more for it.
Unfortunately there is no immediate replacement for Vaughan who, should he prove capable, will be able to lead England into the next Ashes series but not beyond. Whilst Strauss is capable, he has not shown the leadership qualities required on this tour - that of supporting Freddie. Instead he appears to have let Freddie flounder, and it is not the behaviour you would expect of a candidate hopeful of the England captaincy.
Instead, let us hope that Alistair Cook is mentored by Vaughan over the next four years so that he can step into Vaughan's shoes as an intelligent and inspirational leader.
Complain about this postWell said Aggers. This tour is now verging on the farcical, so comprehensive is Australia's dominance. The team seem thoroughly crushed, which of course was Australia's intention from the outset. What has the discontent within the squad stemmed from? It doesn't bode well if there is genuine disharmony, as, potentially, we have an excellent team in the making. As ever though, the real difference between the teams is mental strength and the will to win. The Aussies have it in spades. Us Brits are just too bloody nice.
Complain about this postSpeaking as a dyed in the wool English supporter I can only express my awe and admiration of this current Australian side. There is so much respect over here, for Warne and McGrath in particular it is palpable.
Complain about this postI think this would be a perfect opportunity - when Australia wrap the series up - to find a new home - at the SCG - or somewhere in Australia for the famous old urn.
They are immeasurably the better team after all and surely they deserve to keep and display this great sporting trophy - we will get it back one day but it should be in Australia now.
Australians should be told that the vast majority of cricket lovers in UK would support that move - I have no doubt of it - it is just a few crusty old reactionaries at Lords that cannot bear to see it leave.
What a change from the summer of 2005. Sadly, England do not seem to be in the right frame of mind to cope. What you have said about lack of team spirit is also depressing. If this is really true, the time appears to have come to tell this bunch that when they play as the England Test team, they are playing for the pride of the country and not for themselves. In the immediate future, I feel that a re-think is needed as far as central contracts is concerned. Does this lead to complacency that you will be paid irrespective of what you produce? Does it also leave players short of actual match practice? In the long term, the game in England has to be thoroughly restructured with fewer teams and more stiff competition, like in Australia. In my childhood days, I remember the Lancashire league was given as much importance in Indian newspapers as was County cricket. Maybe the leagues(as with Australian grade cricket) should be made tougher and act as a feed stock for the counties and the Test team.
Complain about this postLessons learnt. Winning a couple of sessions per test match is not enough. England need to look at application and grapht. Just because last series was 4+ runs an over, we don't need to try and replicate every match. Cook shows right temperament, Strauss for captain so Flintoff can concentrate on batting (bowling fine, subject to injury).
Complain about this postbring them home now this is just to painfull to watch
Complain about this postI'm looking forward to the plethora of Books and DVDs from the England team, ''how we threw away the ashes....'' Freddy's Capitulation etc.. maybe they were a bit quick to release them after one win in years? Back to the Drawing Board... now there's a good title.
Complain about this postI have to say that England Cricket has hit a new low. I'm here sat in Melbourne with my ticket for the fourth day and im gutted. I was looking forward witnessing the future England team and saying farewell to two of Crickets Greats, McGrath and Warne.
The greats turned up.....England didnt......how can things change so quickly? England simply did'nt have a clue. We lacked technical ability, belief and passion......the only positive was the Barmy Army!!! Well done to all the fans.
Disappointing lads...very disappointing.
Steve Mellor, Melbourne.
Complain about this postIt is not surprising that England lost, and that too inside 3 days. The reasons can be seen in their defeat in the 2nd test, which should have been drawn on England's terms. That setback was so big mentally that they could not recover from that and the suffering continued acutely in the following tests. Only thing the England players can do now is that in the team meeting each of them should stand up and say with commetment what is he going to do in the last test, rather than team management giving instructioins what is expected of the players. Let the accountability come from the players themselves.
bajarkar
Complain about this postIt was pitiful to watch England throw away a strong position (5-85) on Wednesday and then totally capitulate today. My only hope is that this is a young(ish) side who can and should learn from what has been a hard and embarrassing lesson. The Aussies have proven that team spirit and a burning desire to win are just as important as skill. They have managed to outplay England and I hope that England leave Australia with the same hurt that Australia had when they left England in 2005.
BTW MZ - The Queen can not bestow any honours in Australia. Successie Labour (I think) governments (Federal) took that homour away from Her a few years back.
Complain about this postWhat on earth has happened to the so-called traditional English seamer? We were told that they wouldn't get any wickets on these Aussie tracks. Well out has trotted Stuart Clark with an okay record in county cricket for Middlesex and by bowling consistent lines and lengths he's looked miles better than anything we've had to offer. Instead of picking Mahmood/Anderson why we didn't go for a Lewis/Broad type bowler to support our quicker tearaways is beyond me. When the going's got tough our bowlers have failed to get back to the virtues of line and length, to apply some pressure, when the Aussies have always had Clark and McGrath to throw the ball to. This pitch was crying out for a 'Fraser' type of bowler that offered just enough when you put it in the right place. The irony is that Clark is topping the bowling averages and he's the type of bowler this country used to produce with some regularity, but which seems to be out of favour in the Fletcher regime.
Complain about this postOh dear! What another dreadful flogging! Cant imagine how your boys are going last another month or so losing 5-nil and then have to stay Aus to lose the one day series and then cop even more criticism in the world cup in a few months time. Mind you, its great to have the barmy army down under keeping the cash registers overflowing in pubs across the country. Great to have Aggers on the ABC radio too!
Complain about this post
Complain about this postJUST PATHETIC No other words. All we hear now is what a great side Australia are. Have I missed something here? Did we not know this? or did all the hype from the media make us forget this. JA opinion was that the Australian side was old finsished etc. However clearly he does not understand that playinf sport witrh desire a will to win etc etc will get ageing players through a series with the goal at the end the reaclaiming of the Ashes.
Please remember 2005 was a fluke lead by luck and poor Australian team selection. England deluded themselves and the result will be 0-5
A crucial difference between the sides is a lack of fierce competition for places within the England set-up.
Guys like Bell & Collingwood are now 'in the club' after a couple of decent knocks whilst Strauss, KP, Flintoff, Harmison already have life membership.
Contrast KP's casual attitute with Reads' battle for his test career.
Well done Australia but 'club England' now needs a real shake-up.
Complain about this postThe fact of this english side down under in 2006 is as follows :-
1) Flintoff the CAPTAIN of english side was HALF-FIT.
Complain about this post2) No back up bowlers for Hoggard
3) Why do you keep persisting with non performers (Cook/Strauss/Harmison/Jones/Giles (Last 2 should never play for england) )
4) Fielding was pathetic
5) ALL THE PLAYERS WERE OVER CONFIDENT.
In the light of England's abject performance it's important not to loose sight of how well the Australians have played and have approached regaining the Ashes. For the first time in decades of following cricket I can honestly say that the Englad tream should be ashamed of themselves - poor preparation, poor attitude, poor technique and dishonesty, shown by their inability to recognise their own shortcomings - disgraceful.
Complain about this postThe first thing Collingwood & co should remember is that
THEY NEVER GOING TO WRITE ANY NEWSPAPER COLUMNS BEFORE OR DURING a test/odi series is going on (They always preach that they are going to threash the opponents).
Complain about this postEngland owe us a decent performance in the world cup after the shambles in Australia. For Harmison to de-select himself is a disgrace, someone with influence should have a word with him.
Complain about this postHumiliating. No professional pride. The last two years has been a disaster. Golden rules for the International game.
1. Always pick players on form, not on long gone past performance.
2. Never play an injured player.
3. Pick a captain who understands the subleties of the job.
4. Team management must be judged on results and paid on them.
5.Get foreign players out of our game at all levels.
6. Never rely on the opposition getting older/poorer-they will not.
Could think more, but am so horrified by the teams lack of pride I cannot think straight!
Complain about this postTake care Cricket-you are in danger of sinking out of the limelight and back to the wilderness beyond the racing results, next to the classifieds!
At 09:44 AM on 28 Dec 2006, MZ wrote:
Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
No, in AUS there are no such regal awards and in any case we pay our cricketers handsomely to win so all they are doing is their job. In AUS the honour of playing for your country is considered to be more than adequate compensation and superfluous "BE" letters after one's name a relic of a bygone era and a long lost empire.
Complain about this postThe Aussies call the MCG "The G". This now stands for "The Grave" that England are now in!
Fair play to Australia but this Ashes series has been a disgrace. The English players should be ashamed.
Complain about this postI've been to Australia twice to watch England.Glad I didn't go this time!One thing I'm sure of- I doubt if the Aussies will replicate the TASTELESS TACKY TRIUMPHALISM that we got in 2005.I remain a loyal English cricket fan as I have been since I saw Compton hit the winning 4 at the Oval in 1953 (on black & white TV)!
Complain about this postThis could be the last triumphant burst of Australian cricket for sometime.England have a young squad who will improve in time.They now all now know what it is to be humiliated & MUST learn from the experience.I think they will.Changes have to be made in the management...Duncan Fletcher will fall on his sword of course & Flintoff has to relinquish the captaincy.I remember Ian Botham had to do the same in his test career & it didn't do him any harm!
Despite this disaster l don't think there need be wholesale changes to the England squad. Just find an alternative to both Read and Jones as keeper, pick a couple of batters who know how to post big scores and get the radars sorted out of the current set of bowlers who have the key attributes of height and pace. Every Aussie in the team has done their bit....every top six batter has scored a ton (bar Martyn) and every bowler has had at least 3 wickets per innings. Team effort like England had in 2005.
Complain about this postYes, that only applies to England players, quite rightly.
Complain about this posti think Aggers hit the nail right on the head as to why you Brits have faired so poorly in this series. One would have thought all the players would have sat down as a team to have chritmas lunch but seeing 5 went and " did their own thing" well i think that about says it all re team spirit.One can only hope when the Aussies go and play over there next time youse will have a team worth putting up against them .
Complain about this postI honestly think that a village cricket team could play better than this england team. I am appalled that this group of players can even be deemed as 'professional' cricketers. The Australian bowlers have bowled very well but haven't exactly been made to work hard for their wickets. I am just sickened by these bunch of losers who just seemed to have eased off since winning the 2005 Ashes.
Complain about this postOur unbelievably pathetic performance sums up England fairly well I'd say, - down and out.
Increasingly, it seems, as a country we have had our day, from *every* perspective:- crap sportsmen (in just about every field), crap stadia (Wembley ha ha), crap sports facilities, crap government, crap schools/education system, crap weather, crap economy (stop trying to kid us Gordy), crap industry, crap towns and cities, underfunded armed forces (hence crap), crap transport system, crap jobs, crap future.
Is it any wonder Poms are emigrating down under...
Complain about this postJob well done Aussies.
I was at the G for the three days, the highlights was Warnie's 700th wicket, Symond's debut hundred, our clinical demolition of England and the atmosphere the Barmy Army created (the Barmy Army are damn good sledgers, we love them).
I am pretty disapointed with England's cricket though, over a quarter of a million people turned up over three days...we were let down, where has the tenacity of 2005 gone? Flintoff is a shadow of the man that destroyed us last year.
Even as an Aussie, I am hoping for a much better showing from England next week. Maybe that could be England's new year's resolution.....to compete with Australia.
Complain about this postTom wrote: Why don't u English admit that you guys were simply outplayed cos you're not up to standard to the demands of world test cricket?
Looking at the posts of the the English fans, myself included, we acknowledge that the England team was comprehensively beaten; one couldn't really argue the contrary given the scoreline.
And this England team is not up to the rigours of playing Australia in Australia? Again, a 0-4 performance doesn't really leave a lot of room for ambiguity does it?
So all that said Tom, what else where you looking for?
Complain about this postTo say I am devoid of enthusiasm for watching Flintoffs men in the next test at Sydney would be the understatment of the decade!!! I have supported England through bad times and good times alike for many many years and have seen them at low ebbs, but never have I been so utterly despondant and lacking the will to watch my England as i am today. It is without doubt that we have come up against a world beating Australia that would have beaten any team past and present that you would care to pitch them agaisnt. But what really riles me is the shear lack of committment determination and fight to the challenge from the England team/ squad in its entirety. Its like they just gave up! Without exception the whole team looked like a spent force from the very first ball. We never looked like winning let alone competing. Just a spark of fight would have been something but we never got it. My sofa has been my bed for the last 4 tests whilst I watched in amazement at how lack luster the England performances have been! I can assure you it won't be for the Sydney test!
Everyone involved in the England set up should take collective responsibilty for what can only be described as a disgraceful performance and serious questions should be asked of the team management, the preparation, the selection process and whether we had the right man for the job as captain.
Heres to a good nights sleep come New years day!!!
Complain about this postThe dejected capitulation by the England team has not been helped by the shenanigans about who will be the captain in the future and for the World Cup. I think Vaughan raising the issue during the series was unwise, and probably unsporting. Vaughan should have absented himself from the touring team.
I think Flintoff had little chance of getting the team cohesion and drive required while there was another ‘court in exile'. Up until this test Flintoff’s captaincy has been satisfactory to pretty good, if a little too defensive in his tactics. It is sad that the Vaughan plea to regain the captaincy occurs at just the stage where ‘the straw broke the camel’s back’. I don’t think Vaughan should return as captain, because he has not displayed loyalty and decency to his successor and so to the overall benefit of the team. Likely he will not have regained form to be worth a place in the near future.
Vaughan should not have been allowed to be part of the set-up of this tour – another complacent tactically error by the coach and management. A further example of the thoughtless management planning and preparation for this Ashes series, which is a result of arrogance and overconfidence.
Complain about this postNever thought I could get more depressed. You're spot on Aggers with saying it's a mental attitude problem, and others with their feeling that the demise started the day after the last Test in 2005.
Interesting about the Christmas lunch. Are the rumours right and this betrays a Strauss/Flintoff divide? It may not be true, but it's ominous if so. It means we'll have to rely on some leadership from those in ultimate charge back here. Like I said, I never thought I could get more depressed.
Complain about this postEngland's poor showing in this series has to be seen within the context of their patchy form since regaining the Ashes. They have been inconsistent and have not learned that to remain at the top is much harder that getting there. There was a touch of arrogance in the selection (i.e. giles and jones) and in the itineray. the fact that England allowed their bowling coach to return to Austrailia smacked of incompetence. If the England mangement and players really want to be the best they have to go the extra mile by learning from the Aussies.
Complain about this postEngland should never have sent a "full-strength" squad, including most of the Ashes team, to India for the Champions' Trophy.
We were never going to win it (Champs' Trophy) and our Ashes-defending team should have been focussing purely on the job-in-hand by playing four-day cricket wherever they could have got it. I can see absolutely no point in trying to prepare for the Ashes by playing limited overs cricket.
What we need is a specialist one-day coach to focus on this side of the game and to give Fletcher (or his replacement) time to concentrate on test cricket (as well as some pride, spirit and guts).
Complain about this postA divided team? where is the famous mr FLETCHER. The selectors should also have a good look of them selfs. Don't just leave the players by them selfs to take the blame.
Complain about this postShame on you at lprds, I hope you lot choke on your Xmas turkey
I doubt that anyone could make an original comment. I have two unoriginal comments: first, consider bringing this side home - it's like me being asked to play Tiger Woods; there is no match as such! Second, please ask Mr. Flintoff to stop making remarks which are, in my opinion, idiotic. Instead of talking what sounds like rubbish, just ask him to put all his available effort into playing cricket. Thank you.
Complain about this postthe fact that 5 players did not attend Christmas lunch does not necessarily reflect a poor team spirit as it should be remembered that not all members of the English side are of the same faith or religion and that they are entitled to opt out.
Complain about this postIt took six years hard work for Fletcher, Hussain and Vaughan to drag England from bottom of the test rankings to second.
But the moment the Ashes were won, many players and officials thought the hard work was over - it was time to go on benders, collect plaudits, and rest on laurels. Thanks to that, England are in danger of dropping back to where they started.
I doubt that Bangladesh, the current worst test team, would have done any worse than England in this series.
Complain about this postSome of the comments made are an unnecessary attack upon what should be a proud England side.
Things have not gone well, and a few changes are perhaps needed. Nevertheless, England's lads have tried, and they should be congratulated for that.
Don't blame the boys, there are selectors who should hang their heads, and perhaps a coach as well, but at the end of the day, with a bit more strength down the order, England still has a good bowling attack and remains the second best team in the world.
You could not think of a worse situation to find a visiting team in.... coming into the fourth test in Melbourne, Warne retiring, and McGrath too. A sports mad town that can muster close to 250,000 spectators in three days.
In short, now is not the time for recriminations, get behind the team, and lets hope to see a closer contest in Sydney.
Complain about this postThrashed again. Barely even a contest.
Lack of consistency seems to be England's problem. Most of the bowlers have bowled well in patches but not consistently (with the possible exception of Monty and Hoggy). Batsmen have got starts then got out. The biggest problem seems to be leadership both on field and off it.
Complain about this postSomeone has really taken their eye off the proverbial ball and bought into "the hype".
I think its time for Fletcher to go. He has done a fantastic job with the test side over a number of years but recently the wheels have come off a bit. He has to take responsibility for alot of this, plus our one day side is awful and if anything has deteriorated to its lowest ever form under him.
Factors such as poor team selections, poor captaincy selection, poor tactical decisions, Troy Cooley, poor team spirit, blatant favouritism all have to be linked with Fletcher.
After what will almost certainly be a poor world cup performance, we have no evidence to suggest otherwise, he should go before a major witch hunt starts against someone who has ultimately done the English game a lot of good
Complain about this postAs an Australian living in London, I knew this was going to happen ever since i saw the way you celebrated the 2005 series.
Complain about this postSince then you have been living off that series and your mind has not been on the job at hand.
Australia has been preparing for this series for 17 months, where as England gave themselves 2 four day warm up matches.
I think everyone has to take there hat off to the Austrailan team and admit they by far the best team in the world and possibly in history, as i took my hat off the the English team when they won in 2005.
Also i dont think you should make any changes, cause once you start chopping and changing the team you will never get results
Being an Englishman, and as hard as this is to say, I think the Aussies team should be congratulated by the Queen for their performance. As MZ says, I think it's only just for them to be recognised for a (likely) 5 - 0 whitewash, something that hasn't happened since 1920
Complain about this postAs a Australian I was delighted with today's win, but sitting with my English friends at the MCG, I felt nothing but sympathy for the many thousands of English supporters who have paid hard earned pounds to watch their team put in a dismal and disheartening display. It was quite depressing to view and the English cricket team are, in my opinion, a disgrace, having let so many of their supporters down. I agree that there is nothing wrong with losing to a better opponent, but to capitulate today in the manner they did was not indicative of a team of players who are supposedly the best in their country. Come on England, earn some pride and fight back in Sydney!
Complain about this postWhat can anyone say other than well played Australia. This Aussie team are head and shoulders above every other test side in the world and to fall upon their collective swords should be no great surprise to any cricket enthusiast. The problem is the unfortunate over expectation of English cricket supporters whom, through mainly the fault of the press, were foolish enough to believe that this current side were in the same class as the Aussies. Still, it's just boys playing games and irrespective of the intense disappointment felt by England's masses, hat's off to the Aussies. Well played indeed.
Complain about this postwe must go back to the drawing board.
we need players who are able to play at the highest level,not beat west indies,sri lanka,new zealand but the best in australia.
we have cook ans strauss in patches,pietersen who we can niot expectr to carry the batting as he has done,flintoff,hoggard and panesar who we must now build our team around.
we need to be able to bast right down as far as possible because at present we cant get 20 wickets in a test match.
agree with flintoff at 7 read/jon batty at 8.
again why is batty always ignored ???
somebody please answer me this??
why pick the bells/collingwoods/harmisons/ if they cant do it now then in 2009 v the aussies we will be talking a similar story even without warne and mcgrath
strauss
vaughan
cook
pietersen
joyce
????? has to bat and bowl a bit
flintoff
batty
broad
hoggard
panesar
to finish,freddie stop praising the audssies so much.england have been simply not good enough from the minute we flew from england.
the 1st ball of 1st test will be the biggest reminder ot thast.
it took until after the 2nd test to tryand sort harmison out.
lets be honest he hasnt been a test match bowler for 18months now.
questions to be answered on and off the pitch for me
Complain about this postWell, one thing's for sure - judging by some of the comments on here Australian supporters still haven't learnt how to take victory with good grace.
Sure, England's celebrations after the 2005 Ashes triumph were a bit over the top, but that was because of our joy over beating a really good team for the first time in 18 years.
We did not feel the need to make disparaging comments about the Aussies.
Complain about this post
Complain about this postDisgraceful effort and totally embarrassing.
I feel sorry for Flintoff. Test after test he has to stand at the presentation and begrudgingly give praise to the Australians, while simultaneously try and put some sort of positive spin on his own team's performance with the obligatory "we'll regroup, fight back and win the next one".
I was honestly hoping they wouldn't make him do it this time. What could he say? his team was thoroughly outplayed and embarassed yet again, and all their rhetoric of showing character and true ability is sounding rather sad and hollow.
Lucky Michael Vaughan, getting to escape Australia's unyielding revenge after glowing in last year's vainglorious celebrations. Any chance of him coming back for the final drubbing?
Complain about this postEngland are clearly in a state of some disarray and seem to have collectively thrown in the towel.
Complain about this postThey have some justification in this test match - what did they have to do to get a lbw decision!!
There was some shocking decisions, or rather lack of them, by the umpires.
It seemed to drain England and Flintoff in particular of any hope and that approach has filtered through the rest of the team
It is evident more than ever that Australia were far more hungry and passionate to win than England : as individuals, as a team and as a nation. The English Lion needs to search deep within itself and come out fighting. Actions speak louder than words.
Complain about this postI rarely agree with everything that Aggers says, but his comments regarding the lack of team spirit, families on tour and the lack of a real sense of purpose are right on the money. I wonder whether the media could ask Freddie Flintoff whether Andy robinson is helping the England team on tour? That is the only explanation I can come up with for this ridiculous charade.
To the next test, then: are we going to give poor Liam Plunket a competitive bowl before the World Cup or is he going to be thrust unceremoniously into the Commonwealth Bank Series without having bowled a competitive ball since, I think, last July? what I'm getting at, albeit rather incoherently due to the remnants of the most wonderful time of the year (Who was it who sang that?) and all that, is this: there is a lot more to the fifth test than pontificating about pride in that tub-thumping pure patriotism manner. Of course, that's all very important, but England should not lose sight of the next challenge that is the world cup. We have got to use this last test to give Liam Plunket a game, just to get some bowling under his belt. We can do that, and still play with pride.
Complain about this postI was at the MCG today (and wasn't she truly glorious with a crowd of 80,000!) and I have tickets for tomorrow that are sadly worth nothing more than a lousy refund. As a local I am so proud of the Australian team, but also disappointed that the MCG test, the biggest event of the cricket year no less (according to Matthew Hayden himself) is over in less than 3 days. England were a rabble all through this match, they lacked on field leadership and team spirit. They were nothing like the winning 2005 team. Australia were the complete opposite. It is pretty clear that the Australians are a more talented group this time and in these conditions but a strong team spirit would at least have made England competitive. It makes a big difference, and hopefully England will get it back soon for the sake of cricket.
Complain about this postI'm inclined to agree with the poster who said that the real key to this debacle was the second test. I still believe we would have won that game if Panesar had been selected ahead of Giles. The whole series might have taken a very different direction if we had. Clearly it was all over mentally for the England players from that point onwards.
As for the Australians, it always amuses me to see them hark back to our victory last time with such consternation. They seem somehow outraged that we dared to enjoy our rare victory. Next time round there will be no Warne and no McGrath. I also suspect that Flintoff and the boys will be wanting to make amends for this series. Don't despair, we can come back from this.
Complain about this postEng Team Line up Ashes 2009
1. Cook
2. Trescothick
3. Bell
4. Vaughan
5.Pietersen
6. Flintoff
7Davies (w/k)
8Panesar
9Broad
10Hoggard
11Jones
Still looks like Flintoff is batting too high. Can anyone think of a better bet at No 6 ?
Complain about this postEngland went to Australia with key players missing and other key members coming back from long lay offs due to injury... Is it just me but dont you think the England team have been subjected to grossly unfair criticism...
Day after day we have heard from Aggers and co.. not good enough, dwindling team spirit etc etc... Is anyone suprised? They have been beaten by a better team, there own management and to a lesser degree the good old press...
How do we expect a team to perform against the best in the world when key players are missing or out of form.. It could easily be argued that Flintoff should never have played until he found form in practice games... not only that but hes given the ultimate responsibility in captaincy.. why??
The England management who offered him the position must be mad..... it was obvious to everyone that Strauss should have kept the captaincy... Flintoff should step down as captain, as losing 4 in a row would make most captains walk and i guess its only because of his heroics of 2005 that keeps anyone from sacking him...
The problem is now that we are damaging Flintoff as a player and possible future captain because of subjecting him to all this.. not only that the rest of the team are starting to believe Australia are invincible again which is wiping away all the hard work of 2005...
For goodness sake give the players a chance to play from the heart forget the 5-0 scenario, who cares? blood some youngsters and plan for 2009 (you can imagine thats what Australia would do). This series is gone was gone arguably before the first ball was bowled...
Somebody take control and please end the series with England planning for the future and not hanging on to this idea that all that matters is that we are not beaten 5-0... someone must have some vision and forward thinking to realise it doesnt matter...
Complain about this postIs shane warne a republican?
Can he have an OBE anyway? Rolf Harris has one?
Seriously though, what a legend.
I dunno, series whitewash. losing by an innings, anyone getting nostalgic for the nineties?
Complain about this postI listened most of the night to TMS, and the comments of Jonathan and Geoff Boycott. The problems of the English team were well put - Very poor preparation - the team should have had more preparation matches before the First Test. Angus was right that the international diary prevents the right preparation. Ian Chappel was right that we should be looking to win at all types of international cricket - our attitude to one day matches is part of the problem.
Complain about this postCaptaincy from the boundary does not work - we need a real captain out there on the pitch who is confident and wants to win from any situation!
In many walks of life (business as much as Sport) there is this "One Swallow makes a Summer" attitude. Shallow thinking, failure to understand in depth and to work hard to sustain performance. Jonathan is looking for consistency - England have the wrong consistency. Tactics have become more important than strategy, strategy more improtant than objective. Geoff is right - keep it simple - bowl line and length, set the right fields - when you win the toss, make the right decision - our batting is fragile, our bowling is less so in the right conditions - play to the least of our weaknesses.
At least I will be able to get some sleep tonight - thanks England!
As depressing as this all is we have learned a lot from this series: Giles should retire gracefully, ditto Fletcher. Jones does not have the quality at this level with bat or gloves. Trescothick cannot be considered for selection again but Cook has something about him. Finally, Flintoff is mortal, and not a very good captain, but no blame on him - have England ever had an all rounder who was?
Complain about this postFirstly, big congratulations to Australia. They have showed the rest of the cricketin, sporting world, that pure grit, determination and will to win is what you need in every single game. Yes they have the skill and the players on paper, but to produce it in the match, time after time is a lesson to all. Warne and McGrath will obviously go down as some of the all time greats in the game, and we are all lucky to have seen them from ball one of their careers.
Now England,
I wish people would stop talking about how many injuries they have, and the main people are out. That means nothing when they get on the field. Playing for your country, in their biggest games of their lives, (lets face it, the ashes is far greater then the world cup), should be enough for any of them to stand up and be counted. Ok, team selection wasnt great from the off, but maybe in this final test its the best they could do...on paper, but nobody showed it on the field. If this was football, and chelsea or Man U had lost 4 on the trot, and 4 bad results, heads would roll. an excuse about injuries wouldnt do.
If last year they were on open top bus's, they should go on the tube this year.
Complain about this postdefinitely the most pathetic performance so far. all very well for flintoff to say we're playing for pride in these games but clearly they are not bothered at all. where is the pride and belief? its humiliating in the extreme. i'd strip them all of their undeserved mbe's and parade them around trafalgar square to have rotten fruit thrown at them by all the people who wasted money to go and watch them play like utter rubbish. if this series was a boxing match the ref would have stopped the fight. the sydney match will be painful to watch as england will get done 5-0 without doubt. whole tour has been a shambles and someone has to pay big time. i want heads to roll. bring in BOYCOTT the voice of yorkshire reason. he speaks so much sense and would kick them all up the backside like they deserve.
Complain about this post"I doubt that Bangladesh, the current worst Test team, would have done any worse than England in this series"
marc brown - I know England have had a bad time of it in Australia but to suggest they are playing the same level of cricket as Bangladesh is taking it a bit too far.
Everyone is entitled to be upset about England's performance but we really aren't THAT bad overall. I reckon we will win our next four of five Test series
Complain about this postI was quite surprised to hear Flintoff say that the team is putting in their best. If this is the best that the English players can do, then they will get massacred again in Sydney.
Complain about this postI’ve said it before! Today, my English countrymen left me the butt of my Australian friends’ mirth. We watched a side, not a team, with a couple of reasonable bowlers and a couple of reasonable batsmen go through the motions of playing cricket. They lacked an on field tactical leader to get the best from field settings and bowlers. They lacked focussed batting whilst thoughtless swipes were seen as sufficient. The scene was set when the silly business of a copy of the so-called English Plan to deal with the Australians was given to the media. Discourteous perhaps but anyone reading this complicated load of rubbish would know all was gone for England. Who was the idiot who scribbled these useless lists which, no doubt, team members were supposed to be able to recall on the turf? The episode neatly underlined all that is wrong with this group trying to represent their country. They need to go away and learn how to play the game and become men, before coming back to try again.
Complain about this postEngland won the Ashes on the back of exceptional individual performances and good captaincy by Vaughan. The Aussies always had the better team but were matched by spirit and determination.
Complain about this postOur shallow squad has been exposed by injuries and poor selection. When will English sports teams be picked on FORM and not reputation? How could Giles, Harmison, Mahmood & Anderson be selected before someone like Lewis who actually bowls on the square and takes wickets.
Flintoff is a wonderful character but don't overload him with the captaincy & unrealistic expectations.
There's truth in all the above comments(selection, choice of captain, lack of passion etc.). But the main factor is that we were so over-confident after a LUCKY win in 2005 (weather and CRUCIAL umpiring decisions going in our favour - it should have been all over in 2005 after the second test - we were very fortunate). The Aussies have ALWAYS been the better team, and deservedly shown that this time around. The media didn't help either, by bolstering the egos of some very average players.
Complain about this postNothing can be taken away from Australia's performances. They have a number of players with exceptional ability but above all they are a team.
Complain about this postEngland have players who each, on the day, can perform to a similar level but are nowhere near a team.
Australia are regularly going to post big scores and England must be able to match them. To do this we must occupy the crease. Far too frequently we see our guys giving away cheap wickets, playing with a one day mentality. One of the main culprits is Flintoff. Look at his recent test scores. How many times when we needed to bat all day, or sometimes 2 days have we seen a ludricrous choice of shot. This is not leading by example.
Back to Australia, they succeed because of their grit, determination, commitment and national pride. Something our guys have none of.
For me, the series was already lost when England threw away the second Test. The way Flintoff and Pietersen threw away their wickets was abysmal and totally unprofessional. Don't these players know how to set about staying at the crease anymore in order to avoid defeat or at least make it hard for their opponents to bowl them out? Flintoff is nowhere near being the right man to captain the side. Or maybe he is if that's how England want to go about playing Test cricket. He's a million miles away from Vaughan and can't even be mentioned in the same breath as Illingworth and Brearley.
Complain about this postTalk about whingeing Poms - give your team a break! You have some outstanding players and a gifted young nucleus of players for the future. They have been outplayed by one of the best ever Australian teams containing a number of players who would make the short list for the best ever in their respective positions (Warne, Gilchrist, McGrath, Ponting(?)), They have been playing with a will and intensity to win that has been so consistent throughout the series I can say I 've never seen the like of it before in 40 years of cricket watching. Everything England does eventually seems like a mistake in the face of such opposition but it isn't - Australia have just been too good - just like England was last time. Get behind your team, until the last day and a half of the 4th Test they have been giving as much as they could.
Complain about this postThe 2 really galling things are
1. Flintoff not admitting it has been a farce
2. Players like strauss claiming they are as good as the aussies they have just lost the key moments ...rubbish they are better, better prepared and this test has really exposed this
The first thing before we move forward is to admit to these then we can move on
Complain about this postWe all know the problems... what we now need are the solutions!
I would suggest the first one to solve is how do we get these 11 men to start playing like a team?
Complain about this postAll we can ask now is that we hurt at least half as much as Australia did in 2005, although looking at the players attitude, I doubt it. It's been a complete farce and the over-riding feeling as that we've been making it up as we go along really. Pietersen suddenly at 4 is a perfect illustration of that, as Aggers says.
As is so often says, the sporting outlook of the two nations are polar opposites. Australia expects to win; England hope to win, and spend at least a few years afterwards celebrating the fact. It's about time we sorted ourselves out. Australia is laughing its collective head off, and who can blame them?
Complain about this postFirst the FA appoint Maclaren because he is English and then Flintoff becomes captain because he is inspiration.... you can have all the passion and patriotism you want but if you cant do the job. This had better act as a wake up and changes are needed.
Complain about this postEngland went to Australia with key players missing and other key members coming back from long lay offs due to injury... Is it just me but dont you think the England team have been subjected to grossly unfair criticism...
Day after day we have heard from Aggers and co.. not good enough, dwindling team spirit etc etc... Is anyone suprised? They have been beaten by a better team, there own management and to a lesser degree the good old press...
How do we expect a team to perform against the best in the world when key players are missing or out of form.. It could easily be argued that Flintoff should never have played until he found form in practice games... not only that but hes given the ultimate responsibility in captaincy.. why??
The England management who offered him the position must be mad..... it was obvious to everyone that Strauss should have kept the captaincy... Flintoff should step down as captain, as losing 4 in a row would make most captains walk and i guess its only because of his heroics of 2005 that keeps anyone from sacking him...
The problem is now that we are damaging Flintoff as a player and possible future captain because of subjecting him to all this.. not only that the rest of the team are starting to believe Australia are invincible again which is wiping away all the hard work of 2005...
For goodness sake give the players a chance to play from the heart forget the 5-0 scenario, who cares? blood some youngsters and plan for 2009 (you can imagine thats what Australia would do). This series is gone was gone arguably before the first ball was bowled...
Somebody take control and please end the series with England planning for the future and not hanging on to this idea that all that matters is that we are not beaten 5-0... someone must have some vision and forward thinking to realise it doesnt matter...
Complain about this postE...gotistical
N...egative
G...utless
L...acking team spirit, stability etc etc
A...rrogant
N...ext to useless
D...isgraceful
Give Straussy the captaincy - Freddie doesn't need the pressure. As Ed Bell said, smacks of Beefy's tenure in charge. Let him do what he does best.
Complain about this postRoll on 2009 - without Warne, Mcgrath, Hayden et al we might actually have a chance. Then again, there'll still be Lee, Clark, Clarke, Hussey..oh, and probably Ponting and Gilchrist as well. Happy days! (Is Tuffers still available, by the way?!)
I hoped before the test series start that without Vaughan and Jones and with players not at there best at all, e.g. Flintoff, Giles and Trescothick that we we still might achieve something. To draw the series would have been great out there in the circumstances.
Complain about this postThe sad reality is, that really we should not be reliant on the small group of our best players to come good consistently. Just like our national football squad our cricket squad does not have the depth of top class players to perform continuously on the international stage. Our lads under a 80% Flintoff have missed match winning chances this time. They have had some abyssmal decisions against them and Aussies have pushed the term 'Sporting' to its limits, some of their appeals deserved stern warnings which they did not receive.
When we were kissing and cuddling the enemy when we were playing so brilliantly and god forbid going to beat them in the last Ashes series, perhaps we should have treated them with the same clinical disregard that they shown us out there in Aus this time.
Like our national football the picks in Cricket are getting harder to make. Its too easy to blame the Coach and Captain, therefore the ECB need to look at increasing the depth and quality of the squad. That is the only answer.
Teju,
I feel you are being rather harsh on Cook. He has scored 1000+ runs in his 1st season aged 21 incl 4 tons......
Underperforming??
Drop Him??
You are having a laugh.
Agree with Giles/ Jones/ Harmison comment though.
Complain about this postLest we forget...
If it hadn't been for a dubious umpiring call in the Edgbaston test to end the Australian second innings, the series would have been a tied one and Australia wouldn't have lost the Ashes last time around.
Until the EWCB prioritise the Ashes series above every other tournament, as the Australians have done, then it will be a long time before we get the urn back.
Well played Australia and well done Shane Warne. What a remarkable talent and I can't wait to see him turn out for Hampshire next summer.
However, from the Ashes the Pheonix will again arise...
Complain about this postI'd like to see how Australia would go if they were missing Hayden, Ponting and Stuart Clark, which is equal to what England are missing.
As an Australian going for England, I have been extremely dissapointed about the performances.
To all of the English fans, After Warne and McGrath, there's hardly any players in Australian first class cricket who come close to filling the void that these retirements bring to the Australian team.
Phil Jaques is about the only player who really deserves to be in the national side. There is very little other than that. Mark Cosgrove's good but he's not at international standard yet. Mitchell Johnson is not all that everyone says he is and Shaun Tait is in the same category (although Tait can bowl some incredible spells).
In the spin department, Cameron White is a good bowler but he's no Shane Warne. He's an excellent captain (he recently out captained Darren Lehmann of all people in a one day game) and should replace Ricky Ponting when the time comes but that won't be for a while.
Dan Cullen is slightly overrated, although he's a good bowler, but time will tell. Adam Voges has only played 20 first class games.
There are hardly any players in the early 20's who are coming into the Australian system unlike England who have a load of young players ready to play international cricket.
Stuart MacGill although an excellent bowler is 35 and not getting any younger.
On the plus side for Australia, Ricky Ponting, Michael Hussey and Michael Clarke will more than likely be playing by the time of the 2009 Ashes Series, however the rest of the side will look very different.
England on the other hand have players like Cook, Panesar, Mahmood, Bell and Pietersen who are all at the beggining of their test careers and looking extremely promising. It's more than likely that players like Strauss, Flintoff, Harmison, Vaughan and Simon Jones (barring injury) will still be around by 2009 so there is some hope for England, but they have to put in the work.
This recent defeat might be what England need to get back into form.
I hope they do well in Sydney.
Complain about this postoh Yeah, This english team will have the "upper hand" in 2009 - at least, as per Aggers DREAMS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Complain about this postRE - comment 23 by "George". You just keep thinking that way mate, try and get the england team and management to think that way, also the fans.
That way the Ashes will be safe, where they belong, with Australia.
Complain about this postCan't bat. Can't bowl. Can't catch. Can't field. Can't understand why PM is such a fool. (Your's and our's)
Complain about this postI don't think England are far behind Australia in talent, where they are a long way behind is in committment, desire and fighting spirit.
Complain about this postThey have let themselves down badly and all their supporters world wide.
They should consider giving their fees to charity, after expences.
And then get some in, training that is, ready for the next session!
Les
I think, amidst all the criticism of the England team, the exceptional performances of the Australians should not be overlooked. My own view is that England lacked the preparation that might have allowed them to compete on a more equal basis and possibly avoid a 5-0 humiliation. However, I still think England would have lost. Lets be honest when we won the Ashes in England we played above ourselves and got the lucky breaks. This time an underprepared side missing key players came up against a very determined excellent cricketing side who probably had more than their fair share of the luck! The expectation of success, back in the UK, reminds me of all the euphoria prior to England competing in the football world cup - world beaters according to the media but very ordinary in reality!
Complain about this postWhy can,t tours follow the pattern of years ago when teams were in Os for months not weeks They got acclimatised , played States and country sides between Tests and were able to pick the players on form. This is a job not a holiday.
Complain about this postThere have been so many blunders made in the run-up to this series, and during the series itself that one wonders whether the entire system of cricket administration in the UK needs to be thoroughly overhauled.
For me, the biggest disappointment in Australia has been the performance and captaincy of Flintoff.
In retrospect it was not a good idea to burden him with the captaincy, and there were many who thought so before the tour began.
Let's hope lessons have been learned, but something tells me that without a good clear out within the administration, it will be all talk and no action.
Complain about this postOnce again an English team has gone abroad with all the distractions of wives and families accompanying them virtually every step of the way. Having had to suffer the WAGs during the summer we now had the players heading home from the subcontinent for a few days instead of practcing in Australia, and then reports of various players being uncomfortable from being away from their loved ones. Take them off a central contract then and make them bloody work for any bonuses like 99% of the population have to...
Complain about this postIf this motley crew of England cricketersand coaches were employees in a business situation then final warnings and dismissals would be the order of the day.There is only one answer and that is a massive clear out and start again.I certainly hope it happens because I for one will show little interest if I have to continue reading about this bunch of loosers-John from Brisbane
Complain about this postIn response to Tom the genius, "Why don't u English admit that you guys were simply outplayed cos you're not up to standard to the demands of world test cricket?", if you've read any of the papers, respected journalists and media feedback, you'll find that's exactly what we have been saying. Your guys are far superior, there can be absolutely no doubt about that. What we English are so astounded by is how we can change from a series-winning team in 2005 to this utter rubbish in 15 months? And as Aggers makes clear, 1. you guys are leagues above in quality and desire, but also 2. there is no shame in losing when you've given your all, and that is the utter shame that should hang round the current England side. A disgrace. The most hyped series in world cricket and we have let all those involved down, with poor, gutless cricket.
MBEs, OBEs... no one in England under 50 years old cares about such meaningless trinkets, it's just you guys just can't seem to shake off being ignored when they're handed out. Have them; enjoy them... not sure why you make such a big deal of medals that represent a former union that many of you so clearly want to be disassociated from.
Complain about this postIf this motley crew of England cricketersand coaches were employees in a business situation then final warnings and dismissals would be the order of the day.There is only one answer and that is a massive clear out and start again.I certainly hope it happens because I for one will show little interest if I have to continue reading about this bunch of loosers-John from Brisbane
Complain about this postBowl out twice for a total of 320 runs, i think zimbawe can give the aussie a more competitive result than this.
I have just read the average by the aussie batmen, and you know what. The top eight batmen have a batting average well over 40, and their nineth batman "lee" has a average of 30. This is the reason why the poms is trailing 4v0 prior to the last ashes in sydney.....
Complain about this postMZ that will only happen to the English team becuase Australia opted out of the right to receive Commonwealth honours some years ago. Ask Johnnie Howard to dish out some Order's of Australia.
Complain about this postIs anyone else surprised that England have appeared to have given up? Im not!!
You try and be beaten the way they have and still want to come out fighting!!? Who would? Australia i hear you cry? Well maybe..
But no one else... The series is gone dead and buried.. why bother playing once the series is won? Why put players through dead rubbers and ask them to play for so called pride? Don't you think they are playing with pride before this?
Surely the most useful thing for dead rubbers if you still think we need them, is to blood some youngsters and give them experience... instead the short sightedness comes out and people say we dont want to lose 5-0!! Oh no!! can you imagine? Best play for pride then? What complete rubbish...
who cares? anyone? 3-0, 4-0, 5-0 losing is losing... by how much doesnt matter...
what does matter is rebuilding confidence and if you say right we will field a team with some young up and coming talent go out enjoy it and get some useful experience and dont worry abou the result.. then you are taking the pressure off and using these dead rubbers constructively.. surely others must think like this? Please someone in Englands management have some forward thinking???
Complain about this postI wonder if Australia can win the toss in Sydney, declare at stumps on day one with 400 on the board, then bowl England out twice in a day, wrap it all up in two days. Anything seems possible in this series.
At least then, the loyal English supporters could enjoy a couple of days at Bondi, before coming back to blighty.
Complain about this postWhat can you say?. It has been been horrific watching our 11 best cricketers(?) being trounced.Althought it was expected,it still hurts. No passion, lack of committment and worse of all no sign of fighting spirit.
Complain about this postPlease Mr Blair, send in the SAS and rescue our boys immeadiately
i now know why aussie has prepared such batting friendly wicket in adelade and perth. The reason is that the aussie don't want these matches be finished within 3 days [lemuch less revenue from tickets and tv telecast]. And the decision of pointing not enforced the follow on in brisban also support my view.......
Complain about this postRather than just complain as I have done after each & every abject performance, I thought I would be positive & suggest solutions which the England management should at least consider.
1) Change the Captain to Strauss
2) Play an extra batsman at no 3 or 6
3) Move KP to 4
4) 4 Bowlers : Flintoff, Hoggard. Panesar + 1 other
5) Set orthodox fields & bowl L&L
6) Do everything together as a team & send home the WAGS
7) Show some heart, pride & passion for the three lions, the barmy army, the australians who crave a contest & the people back home that deserve better.
Sydney Test...
Strauss
Cook
Joyce
KP
Collingwood
Bell
Flintoff
Read
Mahmood
Panesar
Hoggard
Show some fight....
Complain about this postNothing new here Aggers!
Pieterson has all ways been arrogant right from day one and showed that now that the series has gone, he's not interested.
The fact that our bowling plan became public knowledge shouldn't bother anyone as much as the fact we couldn't bowl to it!
The only point I disagree with you on is - if you're not getting on with some one, you shouldn't have to spend time with them because of some traddition as this isn't likely to improve team spirit more just make you miserable or fed up; do you own thing and be happy. I play for a team where team spirit could be better but, then, we win things!
Alan Humphries.
Complain about this posteasy to some this tour up in a few words poor planing poor batting poor bowling poor selection poor umpiring from the first test when pointing should have been given out for 30 odd and went on to make over 190 right up to this test match when hayden should have been given out what four times ? Australia have had the best of the decisions i personaly think this was down to there aggressive appealing perhaps i should put down poor third umpiring as well for not stopping it.This Australis side are one of the best teams to grace the game it would have been nice to play them on a even keel ask andrew strauss
Complain about this post
Complain about this postChanges need to be made and lessons need to be learnt otherwise our cricket team will collapse into oblivion. What saddens me is that; yes Australia has been the better side and you don’t have to be ashamed of losing to the better side. But for three of the tests we have looked like village cricketer’s compared to their mighty team. And the other test was simply humiliating; we have had little fight, making every other series’ down under look decidedly warmer. Why has it all gone so wrong, when did we lose the team spirit and more importantly what can be done about it? The answer, at least part of it lies with a good performance at Sydney and hopefully a surprisingly better World Cup then many may fear. Perhaps ending Warne and McGrath’s reign with a defeat will inject England with some confidence and belief in themselves, although the way their playing at the moment that look’s like a very distant prospect.
easy to some this tour up in a few words poor planing poor batting poor bowling poor selection poor umpiring from the first test when pointing should have been given out for 30 odd and went on to make over 190 right up to this test match when hayden should have been given out what four times ? Australia have had the best of the decisions i personaly think this was down to there aggressive appealing perhaps i should put down poor third umpiring as well for not stopping it.This Australis side are one of the best teams to grace the game it would have been nice to play them on a even keel ask andrew strauss
Complain about this posti think the aussie cricket board should have an serious investigation on the 2005 ashes aussie team about match fixing. How can they lost to an opponent like england team.... a mystery, like the brazil football team lost to france in 1998 wc.
Complain about this postOne question....why did Mr Blair give out all the gongs etc. after the one off series win ???All the celebrations now look a bit flat and silly...... Was it just for Blair's self promotion or did he know that there won't be a chance again ????
Complain about this postFrom when England lost the second test after a first innings of 550 - 6 declared there was no way back. At the time I thought 5 nil was on the cards and it looks more likely that it will be the case. The whole tour for England has been farcical, this series will hopefully be something to learn from instead of making excuses for why England were thrashed.
Australia throughout were more determined than England. One of the major faults of the England team was not taking advantage of the crucial sessions that would have put them in front. Other than that Australia have out performed England and are determined to not just beat England but humiliate them.
Complain about this postAs an Australian I would like to point out that you Brits just don't appear to go in hard enough. Do what we Aussies do...we hate to loose and that applies to any sport we participate in. We get upset if we don't do well...dam we even got upset with the Australian soccer team not progressing to final 8 in the World Cup. Now that would have being something considering soccer is not a major sport here.
Complain about this postBe more passionate...play as if your life depended on it. I feel sorry for all your fans that have come here..they are fantastic the way they support your team.
Let's be honest -- welcome though it was, England scraped the Ashes win in 2005 - by a whisker.
Complain about this postThis hammering is a great disappointment but not actually a surprise to me as the Aussies are without question far superior as a team. We delude ourselves if we think otherwise.
Clearly though a great cricketer, like Botham, Flintoff is not an England Captain. Strauss should have been Captain in Vaughans absence.
Mind you the biggest mistakes were made by the Selectors who again sent unfit and sub standard players to Australia.
A bowler needs to learn his trade by bowling in matches and getting wickets. Our Test bowlers are not allowed to play County matches so how can they prove they are the best available. It is all very well bowling in the nets but they ought to get more overs under their belt in the middle. They may be fit to run and lift weights but not to bowl. How often were Trueman Statham Bedser Larwood etc. unfit, not often because they bowled much more in matches.
As for the batsmen they lack the discipline of NOT getting out. You can practice all day in the nets but if you hit a bad shot it doen't matter you keep going. Just look at all those careless shots our batsmen get out to - they are 'net' shots.
Let us get a new coach and selectors who insist that the players learn and keep up their standards playing cricket in the middle.
Complain about this postI can imagine the likes of Thomas Morgan and David Graveney are underlining the excuses. Too much to expect honest assessments of where it has all wrong.
I'm not one for knee-jerk reactions but an overhaul of personnel at the top must take place. Graveney, Fletcher and Flintoff do not deserve to stay in their positions. This whole level of performance is not acceptable.
Also what did Thomas Morgan the chairman of the ECB do to deserve another contract, which he got during the Ashes?? Since he was the one who defended the set-up of the tour, perhaps he was behind arranging it? About as ridiculous as an Ashes Test in Cardiff. Then again, there is an Ashes Test in Cardiff on the 2009 Ashes Tour. Enough said!
This Australia team is good but are they really as good as the teams that played under Waugh, Taylor and Border?
I can't help feeling that there is unquiet in the England camp anyway and perhaps the releasing of the bowling notes relates to this.
Complain about this postI think the words "Weak" and "Leadership" go togeher in someway explaining this feeble and frankly pathetic performance. Freddie is a great player, but not a great captain. Even in India (Jan, Feb 2006) he never seemed in command and frankly India gifted him a win in the last match of that series. However I think that the coach (Duncan) and the ECB leadership should shoulder responsibility for not showing "LEADERSHIP" and clear direction. This shows up in areas such as choosing Chris Read in the summer and then sidelining him in the Ashes, despite good performances. The selection of Flintoff as captain instead of Strauss is also symtomatic. And what is a still unfit Vaughan doing waiting in the wings in Australia - Is that some sort of message "of confidence" to the current capain and his squad!?
Complain about this postI believe I could be the only one in the world who has understood englands tactics in the current ashes series. England have a younger, developing side whereas Australia's side is much older and careers are winding down. A lot of Australian players are over 30 and a few are reaching 35+ What a great way of decimating the Australian team. A 5-0 whitewash is a way to send off half the Australian team making England have the experience edge over Australia in the next series. Losing 5-0 is tactical genius!
Complain about this postTo all those who cried out for Giles & Jones to be dropped .. Now look what's happened!!
At least the first 3 matches reached the fourth day when the King of Spain and his little helper GoJo were in town.
Joking apart, we have a real problem at 6 & 7 in the batting order where a you need to have potential century makers. I'm afraid that neither Flintoff (who is at present is no more of an alrounder than Warne) nor Read fit the bill.
For all Fletcher's pronouncements about 'batting to 8', the reality is that we don't bat past 5 at the moment.
Complain about this postYou'd better hope you don't end up meeting Scotland at the world cup. That would be real humiliation for you wouldn't it.
Complain about this postIt hurts me to say this but "well done you Aussies", the reason England lost the ashes was because at critical moments during the series they froze whereby the Aussies in the same situations excelled.
It's all down to mental toughness and believing in your own ability and until we reduce the number of county games and introduce 4 regional super teams to play against each other our players will never have that mental toughness that is required to suceed at the very highest level!
Complain about this postWill the 5th test match be limited
to 3 days of play?
Since, to play the full 5 days for benefit of
the spectators, many of who have spent a
lot of money travelling down under, would
mean that Oz should now allow England
to play 4 innings instead of 2 (not that it will affect the outcome anyway).
Please consider this - please!!!
Complain about this postcricket buffs & rugby buffs. the alarm bells have been ringing for these two sports in particular for a good while now. as with our other "national game" of football. our professionals (do not) become bad players overnight, they are all technically proficient compared to "the punter" and genuine fan. they are the best we have, but is the real will to win there "at all costs" this i doubt . why do we seem to rest on our laurels, have inquiries, national debates into the reasons why etc. despite being prepared to employ the "best" coaches/gurus to provide the "off the field" expertise. alas when we are "out there" the mental/psychological difference is so plain to see its embarrassing
Complain about this postA huge disappointment, not so much for losing BUT for the manner in which we lost. The Aussies are a vastly superior team who operate as a team.
We on the other hand seemed over inflated from a VERY closely won Ashes victory in 2005.
It should not be forgotten that it was close and that it could quite easily have gone to the Aussies.
They seem much more committed and were determined to win their home series.
Our preparation does have question marks against and it should not be forgotten that we did not have the same personnel available for this tour.
At the same time the nature of these tours should be looked at. I realise that the days of taking the boat from Tilbury and taking six weeks to get to Sydney are long gone BUT to play almost nothing but Tests with no State/Country xi fixtures seems daft to the point of suicidal.
The fact is that however loyal I am about English Cricket the present side has been well thumped by a vastly superior outfit.
The supporters and young kids deserve better from the national side.
Complain about this postWhy are we surprised at this series result? Good though he is, Andrew Flintoff is not superhuman and cannot bowl, bat, remain fit, both physically and mentally, support his team and modify tactics as the game dictates to the level needed to beat the aussies. Bothams attempt at captaincy illustrates this point and look at the other great all rounders in successful teams, all benefitted from a good captain to support them.
Complain about this postYes, it's pretty desperate for England, isn't it?
Congratulations to Australia, who unquestionably deserve their victories. In reading all of the above posts, I see that none of us are blaming the umpires, the playing conditions or anything else other than our own inadequacies. Australia have played much better than we have and are getting the results they deserve.
In 2005 we managed to beat Australia despite the fact that they were, in many respects, a better team player for player than England. This took immense grit and determination by England plus a little bit of good fortune along the way. If you recall, the Ashes were still very much in doubt at tea on the final day of the Oval test. It had taken all England had to just stay with Australia in that series.
Then a wonderful innings by Pietersen saw us home.
This winter we have seen England perform below their best and Australia, determined to regain what they lost, play to their full and brilliant potential. The interesting thing is the magnitude of the difference: currently 4 - 0, there are few England supporters who would bet against our team returning home having lost the Sydney test as well.
In other words, we scraped an Ashes series win last time. This time, we are being thrashed as no England side has been in years.
I agree with those who wrote, above, that we eased off after the 2005 Ashes win. I think that winning the Ashes was a great goal and we achieved it. Retaining the Ashes was clearly not given the same priority, whereas for Australia the humiliation and pain in losing the Ashes meant that they were extra-motivated to give of their best this time.
No wonder they've won.
I would like to see the England players at Sydney give of their absolute best to prove to themselves that they can compete with the best and to win (or at least not lose). They must first wipe the mental slate clean and decide that Sydney is their own, private "Ashes" from which a phoenix can arise.
Finally, I think that the Barmy Army has been wonderful. It is a shame that England, so far, have not been worthy of the superb support they've received.
Complain about this postI have to agree with Mike W's sentiments. I doubt whether England has ever had to make a first Ashes defence against such experienced and richly talented opponents. Given a favourable rub of the green and the availability of 11 of the best 13 players in the land (in form), England can match Australia, as was demonstrated last year, but the bench strength is simply not of a comparable level. The accusations of complacency and lack of passion are, I'm afraid, symptoms of denial, folks. England showed bucketloads of commitment this year, gaining a draw in India and beating Pakistan (very comfortably) at home for the first time in a generation. I've seen no evidence of this having been lacking Down Under but what I do see is an Australian top 7 with considerably more talent and experience than its opposition, a seam attack with three, rather than two cutting edges, and one of the most prolifically aggressive spinners in Test history. Given the quality of opposition and the fact that three of England's optimum XI were sidelined before the series began, you didn't seriously expect England to avoid a beating, did you?
Complain about this postBring them home now please.
As I stated after day one this had the hallmark of a big innings defeat and so it turned out...so for me no surprise other than Flinty did not seem to care one way or the other...hopefully he does realise NOW he is not a captain...can you imagine a disaster like this series under Vaughan, Close, Brearley???
The team has disgraced England and as with the victory they must now all accept the consequences which means quite a few should not be there this coming summer...but I have this funny feeling a lot of the individulas involved will still be there ...so where Aggers does that leave us for 2009?
Complain about this postCan I just point out to rannyroo (number 8) that his implication that Strauss isn't English because he wasn't born there opens the door for English fans to point out that the Aussie's top scorer in the 4th Test was indeed a Pom, you can't have it both ways.
Personally, the fact that England have been incapable of bowling Australia twice, points to a problem with their bowling coach - all of the bowlers used in the 4th Test are normally a decent bunch, Mahmood's a little inconsistent - but he's still young enough to improve. It could be time to try and find another replacement for the irreplaceable Troy Cooley. Wasim Akram or Dennis Lillee anyone?
Complain about this postYes - the tour has proved to be a bitter disappointment on the field. This was always going to be a very difficult tour - away to a superior team and, yes, one has to agree that the team did lack spirit at times. The shortage of first class cricket before and between Tests was not helpful and Australian tours to UK seem to schedule more time to acclimatise - notwithstandinfg the tour party's familiarity with English conditions. Trescothick's absence, injured players lacking match practice can all be put forward as excuses but that's the game.
What has spoilt the Tour for me has been the BBC's reporting which has degenerated into tabloid style coverage. Jonathan Agnew's continual whingeing and undue emphasis on body language and off the field activities perhaps only emphasised to those who really follow the game (and not just the razzmatazz) that his technical insight into the game is weak.
Whilst his Test playing experience (nearly 100 runs per wicket!) may mislead his BBC employers into thinking that he has superior understanding and input than, say, his predecessor I beg to differ.
England's victories are begrudgingly acknowledged by him eg - "if not for McGrath's injury who knows how things might have turned out"; and defeats are reported with acerbic comments.
No wonder the BBC sports reports degenerate into comedy sessions with all and sundry chipping in with their jokes whenever England lose.
Hardly surprising that the BBC has all but lost it's TV coverage of this game if Aggers is the best that can be put forward to sell the sport to the public.
Sky/Cricinfo have not become the first port of call for true cricket fans just because they have the deeper pockets, - the BBC coverage as Geoff Boycott would put it has been "rubbish".
Complain about this postIt can only get better. I still remember England being bowled out for 52 in 1948 against the Aussies. Five years later we regained the Ashes. It can happen again. Lets look on the bright side.
Complain about this postEngland come home now, you are a disgrace to your Country and yourselves, are you just out there for a "JOLLY". The Barmy Army paid hard earned cash to watch this Ashes Series, what a waste just to see a bunch of loosers.
Complain about this postWhen you arrive back , book into the nearest NHS Hospital for a blood transfusion and a replacement backbone.
Based on what I've seen in the last four tests, I am full of confidence that we have an excellent chance of winning the world cup next year.
Mental illness, retirements, injuries and weak leadership will have all the big boys thinking we'll be a walkover, much to their peril.....hmmmmm.
Complain about this postIt all went wrong at the very beginning with a 14 man game and a 2 day game . What a sorry way to prepair for a 5test against the best in the world. We were second best in all dept with players scoring well in one innings then followed by poor scores i.e Bell and Colinwood .
Complain about this postThey all think they are better than they are
Eng are a disgrace! i am ashamed of the way the aussies have been given us a hiding.
Complain about this postFlintoff needs to admit they did not prepare well and have made some awful decisions instead of bangin on about how well the aussies played.
Yes the aussies played great, but eng were extremely poor! they did not even try to make a match out of this test!
5-0 the final score!
From a non-partisan viewer, I was very keen to see an even battle and am totally disappointed by the lame submission of the English team. Aussies have not played better cricket than, what they played the last time around - it is just that England never tested them.
Having follwed, English cricket for sometime, I wouldn't be surprised that everyone except the management will be blamed for the loss and nothing will come out at the end.
Complain about this postThere's nothing wrong with the English celebrating the Ashes win in the manner they did. Why not? They had been getting hammered for a long while before that, and were playing an Australian side that thought they were the kings of the hill, telling everyone they would win 5 nil and Clarke was going to have his name on the honour board ar Lords after getting a ton. What arrogance! After a thrilling contest where each side gave it their all England won and it was just what the country needed. Everyone thought it was great and exciting, and if the English want to have a party and celebrate, feel good and hand out a few gongs, why not? It's the English celebrating in England the way they want to, and if the onlookers don't like it..tough. They can go back to gazing at their respective navel's as they normally do.
Complain about this postHas everyone forgotten that the Australians sent their team to ARMY TRAINING CAMP to get ready for this series? Get real.
As food for thought, how come their was only a year or so between the two series? England, decimated by injuries would have like the time to get vital men fit. If the present series were being held another seven months from now maybe they would have a team more likely to put up a sterner defence.
Superlatives describing England's performance (lack of) in the 4th test will no doubt abound! I will therefore try and restrict myself to some constructive comments:
Complain about this post1. England need a management and coching team, led by a captain that can motivate and inspire good cricketers to consistently play above 'their best'.
2. The 'central contract' players MUST play a minimum number of county matches at all levels; perhaps a 'point system' rather like the Ryder Cup should be introduced under which the 22 contracted players would have to always 'fight' for their places. To avoid constant wholesale changes, perhaps a nucleus of say five players would be guaranteed a spot (the captain, WC, two strike bowlers, and a spin bowler).
What is clear, is that it is the 'structure' that needs changing, and not just the players!
The Queen was instruicted by her British government to award the English team MBEs. If her Australian government issues a similar instruction I'm sure she'll comply.
Complain about this postI love cricket, but only if it is competitive. I have seen more competitive spirit from 11 and 12 year olds at lunchtime. Now you should see the boys.....
I have seen posts that suggest that the depth of talent available to the oz selectors is a product of a fiercely competitive domestic comp - the Sheffield Shield (currently hijacked by a Milk sponsorship naming rights deal) and selectors who are prepared to drop players even though they are on (and remain on) contract.
Too right.
From a distance, it appears that county cricket is a comfortable employment opportunity for people with some talent but little desire.
SK Warne obviously feels comfortable there, honouring his contract with Hampshire even though retired from any cricket in oz, even with St. Kilda.
Perhaps English Cricket's domestic comp should be redesigned from the ground up. Less clubs, rigorous or ruthless selection policies, less overseas imports.
You blokes used to do quite well once. You could again for an extended time. But the basics have to be in place first.
Complain about this postEngland have been put to the sword, possibly in a fashion that won't occur again in any of her current squad's playing lives. That England will be very competitive against a depleted Australia in years to come is a given, but here's hoping, for the good of cricket in general, and the Ashes in particular, that this remorseless belting into submission will get Flintoff and co. so angry that English cricket will prosper. English cricketing stock is on the rise, and as Vivian Richards said retrospectively about 1975-6, after being beaten 5-1 by Australia, "Sometimes, a hiding is a good thing!" Australia has had a good 15 years; it's time we came back to the fold.
Complain about this postwe have not heard from ian botham since he
Complain about this postarrived in australia.is he still here?
As a Kiwi in the UK I have had to suffer the English crowing with my Australian brothers for 16 long months (we don't even sound the same you stupid Poms), so it is with great pleasure that I can now pretend to be an Aussie for a few months until the rugby starts up again.
Warne and McGrath will be missed by all the worlds cricket fans regardless of nationality and the game will be poorer for their retirement after they complete the 5-0 series win that now, even 2 days of solid rain can not avoid.
Thank you Shane for reviving a lost art, thank you Glen for being THAT good, but thank you most of all to Ponting and Waugh for making teams realise that Test cricket isn't about winning a 5 game series 2-0. Sometimes you've offered teams targets and they've reached them but Australia have this infuriating ability to beat you even when you have the game in the bag.
This applies to all Australian sports and is something that the English need to learn and learn fast. Playing for a draw is why we don't watch soccer in the Southern Hemisphere and it's what makes us so good on the international stage.
I'd rather lose than draw a game, as much as it hurts but I hate playing 80 minutes on a freezing Saturday afternoon to walk off in a tie. It's not sharing the honours, it's a weakminded way to compete and thanks to the Australian team of the last 15 years, hopefully it's going for good.
Lastly, thanks to the 2006 Aussie team for softening the English up for us ahead of the tri-series and we'll see you (and probably lose to you) in the final in mid Feb, while England fly home after finishing a poor 3rd.
And can you PLEASE shut up about 1966!!!!
Complain about this postAs an Aussie in pom central I am enjoying this. After enduring 2005 I can but laugh at any pom who thought that they had turned the corner, the planets were aligned in your favour back then, they have moved off into their normal orbits. You need to get your top 30 players much hungrier and then bond them
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/5278376.stm
Not sharing Christmas lunch with each other while on tour - I cant imagine the aussie 11+ going their own way. I couldnt imagine going on a tour myself and then doing similar... very bizzare
Complain about this postFollowing the earlier the post of the Australian Team recieving an offer of MBE's, As a Proud Australian, I would like to add that this well due considering the status/dominance of the australian cricket over the last decade. I would think it would be a great reward for the austrialian criketers considering that the MBE or even an knighthood is applicable to countries under the commonwelath, and in the past cricketers have been bestowed this Honour ie: Sir Donald Bradman, Sir Vivan Richards etc...
Complain about this postThe All Blacks win over England in the 1995 Rugby World Cup Quarter Final has always stood out for me as the most clinical demolition of any national team in any sport.........That is until this Ashes series.
In the first three tests Punter & the boys played with the Poms, these last three days they have chewed on the Poms.....Next week at the SCG we shall spit you out....HAPPY NEW YEAR
England has got exactly what they deserve from the series..........NOTHING
I was nearly ill watching the OTT celebrations last year., parades, medals, DVD's etc etc...All for a series that I still say you won by the skin of your teeth and two runs!!!
Aside from good few drinks I doubt we'll here much from Punter and the boys........We've got a World Cup to win
C'mon Aussie C'mon
Complain about this postAs a follower of all teams that bear the name England I have learnt to loose. For me its not a problem - As long as the management and team show some guts and fighting spirit. Its not a disgrace to be beaten by a team that is technically better and play as a team sport should be played, together and for each other. I have been stupid enough to stay up a few times to see the best that England can provide take on the Aussies. Where are our leaders on the pitch? On the field our players seem to play as they don't want to be there and when batting they seem to have a game to see who can play the worst shot to get out.
Finally if anybody understands the logic of playing Giles and Jones and a half fit captain who has forgotton how to bat and does not know how to lead players I am happy to listen.
Complain about this postTo hear Fletcher trying to blame rain and a damp pitch for England's poor batting in the first innings and to cite Australia's collapse in the first part of their first innings as proof of this was the last straw. What about Australia's subsequent recovery and where was the rain during England's second innings? The England management seem to suffer from an excess of the national malaise that if you talk about it enough it will happen. Talk comes cheap. Let's see some determined action of the kind demonstrated by the Aussies. The pathetic insistence that Vaughan will be our saviour despite his long absence from serious cricket and the decision to send him to Australia in the first place is yet another example.
Complain about this postAll I ask is that Flintoff is now parted from the captaincy after clearly showing he does not have what it takes. The argument used by those who supported his captaincy was that he was a great leader of men and the team would rally behind him.
In reality he's so laid back and seemingly completely oblivious to the nature of the defeat facing up to him that the team have lost all faith in him. His reaction to the loss that nobody was disheartened is amazing.
Strauss had started to make the job his own and didn't deserve to lose the captaincy. He led his men far better than Flintoff has.
I can only hope Vaughan soon returns to start putting the boot up a few backsides and drilling them into order again but until he does Strauss absolutely must be given the captaincy back once this Test series is over.
Complain about this postEngland need to revert to the practise of years ago of restricting foreign players to one only in club and county cricket. We are nuturing foreign talent. Graveny and Fletcher must go and most of the players sent to Iraq/Afghanistan in order to learn some courage.
Complain about this postWhat amazes me is why the ICC don't investigate the blatent pitch tampering by the Aussies.
The Aussies run up a big score on a batting friendly pitch and then, while England are padding up, the hosts secretly change the pitch and the atmospheric conditions so the ball swings, spins and bounces all at the same time.
If only we'd had Darryl Hair - he's so good at seeing things the rest of us can't. He would have awarded all four tests to England.
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Complain about this postLike most cricket fans my xmas has not been the best,my hat is off to a great Australian side i also feel sorry for our bowlers who had a few major decisions go against them on day 2 that would have made a big difference to this match.....But i feel England has realy missed the leadership of Michael Vaughn. Freddie has tried but we never looked confident but alas looked like lambs to the slaughter,i dont think the gap is that big between the sides just confidence and team play.Were even worse at 1 day cricket so dont expect too much too soon........
I entirely agree with Andy- England Cricket team is like an old boys club to which you seem to have life membership if you are in the favored section.
Complain about this postWhile I enjoyed last year's triumph as well as anyone else, I was never convinced by it ithat we were good enough to retain the Ashes in Australia, and nothing that happened afterwards gave me better hopes; but I did expect the team to put up a fight before being beaten. Or is this a plot to spoil the Australians' triumph but making victory seem too easy to be proud of?
Complain about this post"Will Australia's Queen be sending the captain of her Australian cricket team a congratulatory telegram and an offer of MBEs all 'round?
Or does she only do that for her English cricket team?"
Er No. It wasn't the Queen t'was Tony Blair who nominated the England for their MBE - which we now know stands for Mightly Big Embarrassment.
As one Aussie commentator said after they received their gongs "if the Poms enjoy winning so much you'd think they'd do it more often!"
If the England squad had any backbone and moral conscience they'd send their MBEs back as they were obviously obtained fraudulently
Complain about this postAs if losing so dreadfully wasn't bad enough, I have to sit and listen to Andrew Flintoff and Duncan Fletcher tell me that the whole team is trying out there, and the Australians are very good etc etc. When will someone be honest enough to come out and say the team are being outplayed because there is no leadership, no management, no passion. These guys are meant to be professionals aren't they? There isn't enough honesty in sport now adays anyway. Anyone would think we had been watching a different game back here!
Complain about this postThe England football team were followed to Germany by their wives and look where that left them. Now the cricket team have done the same thing. The presence of families is bound to shift the focus away from the job in hand. No one likes to be away from their loved ones for long periods, but these men are in Australia to do a job, not to entertain their families. As for the five who made other plans for christmas day, shame on them, and shame on the management for letting them do it. Finally, and most importantly, shame on the Captain and Management for assuming anyone back here in the UK belives them when they tell us they're trying, and playing for pride. I saw little pride out there today!
I entirely agree with Andy- England Cricket team is like an old boys club to which you seem to have life membership if you are in the favored section.
Complain about this postEmbarrassing, pathetic, what they need is a firm strategy to avoid defeat in the next test, how about get the next plane home
Complain about this postI am sorry to say that this series has been one of the most shambolic ever. The England squad has let go of countless chances to turn the series around both on and off the team- Monty Panesar, Collingwood’s double hundred and some good bowling in all four tests. England have frequently established momentum but sadly not been consistent and continued the momentum. Flintoff is one of my sporting heroes and i refuse to turn on him because he IS a fantastic cricketer. However, i cannot deny that him, like Botham, should never have been selected as captain. Fletch should also resign immediately as he is clearly past it and stupid enough not to admit it.
Complain about this postHowever, i am shocked at some of the comments posted on this blog. Many have dubbed the 2005 series as a fluke. Do not kid yourself. England played magnificently in that series and was the better side. It has nothing o do with flimsy excuses made by England fans (!) that the only reason England won was because of poor Australian selecting and dodgy umpiring decisions. All of the Australian bowlers are consistently good as they have shown in this series but they were not so in that series. I read one post saying it was 5-0 even before the series started. If the England squad has got as much loyalty and confidence to themselves as the so-called "England fans" on this blog, no wonder this series has been so dire. I refuse to buckle under Australia’s arrogance and they're appalling sportsmanship and I am disappointed that the England side keep on praising Australia instead f showing some retaliation. Has anyone seen the winning Australian bowlers going over to comfort the losing England batsmen like Andrew Flintoff did at Edgebaston? That is real sportsmanship not Shane Warne getting 700 wickets and gloating about it
There is very little anyone can say other than we still have this opaque view of the world where we are the inventors and the greatest ~ which is wholly false. The England Cricket Team is poor when compared to other national sides, as are our Football, Rugby and Athletics Teams. Whose to blame? Liberalist Politicians who cut school and grass root funding and development years ago. It will take another 10 to 15 years to get back to where we were and only if we make high level commitment and funding available. Volunteers can only do so much. Paid skills are required. What is the difference then? Emotions. Emotional intelligence [determination and single mindedness coupled with strength of resolve] is what the Australians have and we don't. Thats why we are beaten before walking out on the pitch. Thats why the Australians have won before they leave the dressing room. The England side in Oz never stood an earthly and anyone who thought otherwise is ostrich like in their views. Come home England and face up to the facts. Work, train, develop your EQ emotions and then start on your technical skills.
Complain about this postYou summed it up pretty there, Paul Davenport.
England are pathetic at cricket, at football and at rugby. We can do nothing!
Once we win something, we get taken over by the excessive media hype, give our players knighthoods, commercial endorsement deals etc etc. But thats' where they stop. They rarely ever perform to the same level again.
No one can deny that England have a fantastic bunch of players at their disposal in both football and cricket. But why do they still not dominate their sports on an international level? Too much pressure from the media? Too much expectation from the public? Lack of team ethic?
Flintoffs' captaincy has not worked out. We need Andrew Strauss. Remember, the best player doesn't always make the best captain i.e. Botham, Flintoff.
Look at Murali and Warne. These two are the best bowlers in their sides - but are they captain? No.
Captain needs tactical awareness not media-image awareness.
Lets' stop with the Hollywood-style cricket and play with discipline in Sydney. A Test Match lasts 5 days, not 20 or 50 overs. There's a difference.
Complain about this postMy entire life I have loved cricket, but yesterday I decided after the Hayden-Symonds partnership that I am never watching cricket again. I did not see the final day at Melbourne after Flintoff gifted Symonds a hundred by going far too defensive too early in his innings. Also, how Rudi Koertzen couldn't give one of the 3 palpable LBWs against Hayden and Symonds disgusted me further. Cricket is without doubt the most hideous game to watch when it is non-competitive and when one team's management does not even know its best team (eg Giles ahead of Panesar, Jones ahead of Read) then there is something seriously wrong. Further, why do international sides continue to bowl short to Australia? When will they learn to bowl McGrath, and Clark lengths? Aust batsmen consider a ball bouncing any where between their hips and shoulders to be a 4-ball. It may occasionally get them out - but it is the lowest % play against Aus. Dear God, why have you forsaken me?
Complain about this postI feel thoroughly demoralised by the performances put up by England over the past month. Only during the first innings at Adelaide did we look like a real team competing with the Aussies. Since our Ashes victory, team management and the ECB have made error after error! Losing Troy Cooley, appointing Freddie as captain (although a fantastic and inspirational player), poor preparation and team selection have handicapped England against far and away the best team in the world. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but these arguments were voiced way before the tour had even commenced! Losing to Australia is not an embarressment by any stretch of the imagination but by the decisons made since regaining the Ashes, we may as well have booked a seat for the urn and not bothered turning up! I expect to see only the same again when I attend the 5th Test at the SCG.
Complain about this postI now realise that the BBC highlights timing - near midnight while the next day's play is in progress!! - cleverly avoids the watershed. No English youngsters have been exposed to this pathetic gutless rubbish as thanks to the ECB only the minority of families have access to it.
Complain about this postMonments of brilliance but no cohesion is how I remember this. The odd glimour of hope only to be utterly destroyed by a determined Aussie team with key players not wishing to retire until the Ashes are back in Australia. For me Warnie has given it his all to ensure he can retire on a high.
Wrong captain, bad choice of players (Monty needed from the start), lack of fighting spirit. What is going on?
Oh to see Vaughan and Simon Jones back and maybe just maybe theres a chance to rebuild.
Win back some pride in Sydney lads.
By one English lass who will never give up hope though totally gutted.
Complain about this postReports just come in that the ECB are going to have an inquirey into the leaked bowlers document...While your at it ECB how about sending the ACB a huge apology for the final 2 days revenue lost at the MCG. We filled your grounds for 5 days in the last Ashes series and the ECB made millions from it...then what did you do? you lot got greedy and flogged your poor cricketers over the next 14 months...the result? well 4-0 so far for starters. I've been blowing your trumpet since you arrived on these shores but today was the pits England, where is the moral fibre of last years ashes team? All we wanted was a contest, was that asking too much? Strauss, Cook,[one for the future] Bell, improved heaps since last year] KP, [should be batting at 3] Hoggard [your best player], Collingwood [200 in SA well done] a fit Freddy, Vaughn, Trescothic, Harmison, Read,[can keep and bat] S.Jones [your best bowler by miles] and Monty [who will be a world class player ] all have it in bucketloads but need to bond as a team together to show it. Out of the lot above who would I take for the aussie team? Well monty to replace Warnie and Simon Jones and maybe Hoggard who have displayed fighting spirit by the bucketloads, the rest? well we have some very good young players who you will see in your shores in 2009.
Complain about this postTo those old codgers Warnie and McGrath both all time legends of the game you will be sorely missed and thank you from all ozzies for the years of pleasure you have given us, hope you all watched these games closely poms it's all about playing as a team and never giving in until the last ball is bowled, that's why we are number one and you are a very distant second.
Good luck in Sydney but Melbourne was the test I pencilled in a rare pom victory [before Warnie retiring] can't see Ponting sending out pidgeon as a loser on his home ground in his final test, Monty will love the SCG looking forward to England at least salvaging some pride, good luck next week.
The English lack the ability, in any team sport it seems, to learn how to hunt as a pack, recover from defeat to pummel the opposition or co-ordinate a strategy to offer flexible solutions in the face of adversity.
Australian cricketers hunt as a pack, New Zealand rugby players hunt as a pack, Brazillian football teams hunt as a pack.
English teams nervously look for a leader as they crumble under a barrage of abuse from nations that know that sport means putting up a fight to secure a victory.
Maybe our next coach will be former SAS? Maybe then we'll learn something about making individual, talented workers gel as a team.
Maybe.
Complain about this postWhat is so galling is the meekness of the abject surrender. Cricketers talk the talk but are increasingly short on the walk. I read that Flintoff hailed Oz etc. Very well but what about his team - when is he going to have a chance to hail at least one win. Please, we the longsuffering cricket lovers in England are waiting for a win.
Complain about this postI think all you poms should give up on cricket and let’s start a football ashes series!!! Wouldn’t that be a great idea! Cause cricket just aint England’s game....but then again the football might end up "just like the cricket"
Does anybody remember when Australia played England in a friendly a few years back and the score was 2-0, what was the aussies chant?...It’s just like the cricket...It’s just like the cricket....and so on
But seriously the ashes tour of 2005 was a great series and England deserved to win (this is coming from an Australian supporter) but it was very evident in 2005 that the series could of gone either way and that was when England had their best side in years and playing at home. And the Aussies even though they lost they played for pride. But in this series it’s not even close, I agree with Aggers and Geoffrey Boycott that the English players have given up and it’s quite an embarrassing thing to see on the screen after watching every ball in 2005 compared to 2006!
The English players for the 5th test here in Sydney must stand out/up and be counted and play for pride and if/or they can’t beat the Aussies at least play for a draw!!!
Complain about this postFirst of all congratulations to Australia and in response to an earlier post if Shane Warne and Glen McGrath do not recieve some kind of "gong" from the queen then it will further confirm how completely irrelevant the over reactive 2005 celebrations were for this English cricket team.
Complain about this postThese two have been a credit to sport full stop.
Now England.....
As an Englishman I am so utterly embarressed and dissapointed in this inept badly prepared and poorly led bunch I find words difficult to describe. If I performed with this ineptiitude at work I would expect to be dismissed and this is now surely what Fletcher must get, as Geoffrey Boycott rightly summised prior to the series.
This whole sorry tour has been a disaster from the moment Freddie was named captain. A simpleton would realise that for this very talented player this was one task too much (as previosly expected of Ian Botham), you cannot do everything brilliantly and Fred.....you are simply not captain material.
As for Strauss well "wet" springs immediately to mind as do the thought of most of his airy fairy shots that get him out? Vice captain? He's not good enough to be batting for England let alone be granted this honour!
I could go on....but the main point here is this English team has talent and never in a series can it have been so completely wasted and abused.
Heads MUST roll on return and the whole structure analyzed in order to prevent such abject performance and humiliation in the future and for Gods sake you lot show some pride in your country in the 5th test!!!!
England cricketers should take comfort that the Royal Family is far more benign than days of yore. I recall from my school history lessons that a displeased Queen makes for a short life for fallen favorites.
Complain about this postPerhaps the urn requires topping up with the ashes of a losing England captain!!
For so much promised and so little delivered by England.
There are only two questions out of todays result which need to be asked.
1...Did you give it your best effort today?
2...Did you simply turn up?
If the answer is either yes to both,the problems run deeper in the England team then anyone thinks.
England is being lapped in every facet of the game.
And every weakness in the England team is being attacked and exposed by a ruthless Australian Team.
England was in every test in this series to date right up to the toss of the coin.
Its simply been that bad!
Complain about this postWell, what can you say! What really astounded me was the complete and total disbelief shown by the guys out there. I know that we've been spoilt over the past few years, but here's my suggestions for putting things right:
1) Let's have a Captain that can actually really captain a side. Whilst I love Freddie, he's no leader of men.
2) DF needs to move aside, and another good coach put in his place.
3) Is it me, or am I the only one who thinks that Harmisson has lost it?
4) Cook is a good, but not great, player. He's had his chances.
5) Can somebody do the decent thing, and spell the end of Giles's career?
6) Is it worth reminding the players that they are actually playing for the Country?
7) Evolve your team, or risk the same fate as the dinosaurs.
8) LETS NOT PANIC! We'll regain them in 2009!
Roll on 2007!!
Complain about this postSo english cricket hasn't changed much in a long time. The 2005 Ashes series could have gone either way thanks to a poor australian performance. The 2006 series has been won by a far superior team thanks to consistency and pride shown by both players and selectors.
Complain about this postSurely this proves it's time for Mr Graveney to be relieved of duty. He's been there too long, and english cricket is falling apart.
It is usual that England can only play within England and we have to realize that the team isn't good enough as compare to Australia (even other teams as well - check ICC rating). We were expecting too much from them before Ashes and now criticising them. While England can only play test matches very well (only in home grounds), while they are even not capable to play one day matches. So, it is better to forget everything and don't think anything for future.
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