Can the Hand of God make a good fist of management?
The countdown is on to Diego Maradona's first competitive game in charge of Argentina.
His team's form in warm-up friendies has been impressive - a 1-0 win away to Scotland and especially a 2-0 win away to France. But that will quickly be forgotten if Maradona is unable to steer his side confidently through World Cup qualification.
On Saturday Argentina are at home to Venezuela. On paper, at least, it looks like a comfortable start.
But then the ante is upped - 3,600 metres above sea level to La Paz, where Argentina travel to take on Bolivia on the following Wednesday. It's a trip that no team likes to take - and after that Argentina's remaining away games take them to Ecuador, Paraguay and Uruguay, all very difficult venues. With Brazil still to visit Buenos Aires, Argentina's place in South Africa next year is far from guaranteed. There is no doubt about it - in his new post Maradona is putting his prestige on the line.
He is by no means the first to do so with Argentina. Some of the great names of the country's glorious footballing tradition have had a go at coaching the national team, often with disappointing results.
One of the greatest of them all was perhaps the most disappointing. Adolfo Pedernera was one of the outstanding products of the golden age of Argentine football, the 1940s. Known as 'the Napoleon of football' for his strategic brilliance on the field, as a coach he took Colombia to their first World Cup in 1962. But he was unable to repeat the trick with Argentina - he was in charge when they failed to qualify for Mexico '70.
Pedernera's time in charge came when Argentina's national team was going through a confusing phase, which lasted between 1958 and '74. During this period Argentina had an extraordinary 17 different coaches plus one triumvirate. Several, like Pedernera, were veritable legends of the Argentine game. And yet the results rarely met the expectations.
The two poles of this period are highly significant; 1958 was when Argentina had a cruel encounter with reality; 1974 was when they appointed a coach who would find a way to cope with it. That 1940s golden age in Argentina ended with a players strike that forced some of the top stars abroad, especially to Colombia, where, among many others, Pedernera and Di Stefano went to further their careers. This forced the national team into isolation. Argentina refused to enter the World Cups of 1950 or 54, and stayed out of the Copa Americas of 1949 and 53. They were soon back, winning in both 55 and 57, but Italian clubs then swooped on their top players - which at that time meant that they were no longer picked by Argentina. Sivori, Maschio and Angelillo all ended up playing for Italy.
So when they came over to Sweden for the 1958 World Cup they were stepping into the unknown with an understrength team. They had little notion that in the previous decade they had fallen behind, especially in physical terms. Losing 3-1 to West Germany and 6-1 to Czechoslovakia came as a real shock, and brought it home that they were miles off the pace. How to deal with the rise of northern European football and the physical challenge that it represented - this was a question that hung over the Argentina team for years.
The 1974 World Cup showed them no closer to finding an answer. Like neighbours Uruguay and Brazil, they found their game rendered obsolete by the total football of the Dutch, who put so much pressure on the ball that the South Americans found it impossible to play at their normal rhythm. Holland beat Argentina 4-0.
Enter Cesar Luis Menotti, the chain-smoking philosophising coach who changed the national team for ever. For a start, he got it organised, and using the carrot of staging the 1978 World Cup, he worked to make it a priority rather than a battleground for petty disputes between the major clubs.
Secondly, he made it a truly national affair, rather than a team that only represented Buenos Aires. Thirdly, he had a clear idea of how his team should play. Traditional Argentine passing football could beat the Europeans, argued Menotti - but they had to up the rhythm of their play.
This was the importance of Ossie Ardiles. Going into the 1978 World Cup Ardiles was by no means the fans favourite - many would have preferred to see a player from River Plate, rather than Huracan, in the heart of the midfield. But with his fetching and carrying, his give and goes, Ardiles brought tempo to the team - and well before the end of the 1978 World Cup he had won the public over.
Argentina's victory in that tournament is one of the more controversial in Wold Cup history. Two years into Menotti's reign the country suffered a coup and a barbaric military dictatorship took over, supposedly defending 'Christian' values by torturing dissidents and throwing them out of aeroplanes.
A man of the left, Menotti abhorred them, and saw his team as standing for genuine Argentine working class values. Thinking of the explosion of patriotism victory would bring, the dictatorship wanted him to win, and rumours of dirty tricks have hung around the tournament. It may be the case that without home advantage Argentina would not have triumphed in 1978. But whatever the truth about dirty tricks, in purely footballing terms something significant happened there.
That win launched Argentina on to the top table of world footballing nations, where they had not been for some time. And even when they have disappointed, such as in 2002, they have sat there ever since. This is the tradition that Diego Maradona inherits. As a player he is part of the greatness of the Argentina national team, just as Pedernera was in the 40s. Will he have a different fate as coach?
Comments on today's piece in the space provided. Any other questions on South American football to vickerycolumn@hotmail.com, and I'll pick out a couple for next week.
From last week's postbag:
Q) I've seen Ronaldo's comeback goals and i just wanted to ask you why Ronaldo is not considered THE greatest footballer of all time?
Why do people not realise he is way better than Pele? I've never seen an athlete with such power and finesse. Look at his goal records. Name me a player who has played in Holland, Brazil, Italy, Spain and scored 25+ goals in all those leagues consistently and he is the all time World Cup goalscorer.
When people talk about Kaka as becoming an all time great like Frank Lampard did yesterday, it makes me suffocate as Kaka is not even 5% of Ronaldo so if he is to become a great what is Ronaldo?
Taha Saleh
A) I'm a fan - I think the European press has tended to underestimate his achievements, especially his importance to the 2002 World Cup win, because they didn't see how terrible Brazil were without him in qualifying. And that's another point - he's come back from injuries that may well have ended the careers of others.
There's the difficult comparison of functions, though. He's an out-and-out striker. Di Stefano, Maradona, Pele (alphabetical order!) plus Cruyff, Zidane - they brought more to the pitch, working in more zones, making others around them better players.
So best player for me is going too far - but he's in with a shout for best striker. That pace and power, ability to slow down at the vital moment and keep his head still to finish with superb coolness, short space dribbling skill, willingness to accept responsibility - it's a dazzling skill set.
It has been years, though, since he's been able to put together a sequence of games. Part of this, I think, is the price he has paid for bulking up in search of power. But perhaps he has also found it hard to resist some of the temptations that his wealth has brought within his reach. It's a mind blowing thought, but maybe he could have achieved even more.
Q) I saw Thiago Neves turn out for Brazil against Sweden around a year ago and he looked some prospect, a wand of a left foot, strong and combative with a good degree of intelligence and movement. He managed to inspire Fluminense to the final of the Copa Libertadores. He then had his dream move to Europe with Hamburg, I only just realised that he signed for Al-Hilal at the end of January and they loaned him back to Fluminense. I was just wondering if at 24 years old his career can take off again.
Balarama Chambers
A) For all his ability, I never saw him as a sure thing for Hamburg. It was widely thought here that he would have problems adapting, and he's also shown an extraordinary lack of patience and fighting spirit, throwing in the towel after a few months.
Unless he can get the deal extended, it's 6 months back in Brazil and then off to the Middle East, right at the age when he should be really coming through at the top level. It all seems a waste, and it does mean that he carries a warning label on his CV. Would you want your club to take a chance on him?
A glorious history, a rich culture, a production line of exciting players... South American football is endlessly fascinating. I cover the continent from my base in Rio.
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~16~RS~)
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Tim,
I was wondering if you could possibly give me your opinion on Giovani dos Santos.
Just over a season ago he was playin in Barcelona's first team, not only in the league, but in the Champions League too.
He now finds himself on loan at Ipswich Town!! An incredible decline in standard!
I believe that they (Barcelona) were told to choose between keeping Gio or Bojan on and they plumped with Bojan.
Why has he taken such a drastic change in fortunes and where does he go from here??
Your thoughts on this matter would be most appreciated as I am shocked to see him playing in the Championship.
Thanks.
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#1
"I believe that they (Barcelona) were told to choose between keeping Gio or Bojan on and they plumped with Bojan."
Could someone explain this further? What barriers were there to keeping both?
Or is this a smokescreen to a different reason altogether?
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There will be the usual deluge of comments saying Maradonna doesn't deserve anything for being a cheat... which I find a tad boring now..
I hope to everything that is holy that he succeeds as coach of Argentina. The excitement that he may bring back to football would be worth all of the bad years he has hopefully put behind him.
Cheers Tim
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Tim, I was wondering if Maradonas reputation in Aregtina is in anyway tainted by his personal problems, with drug use etc.? I imagine that the "hand of god" incident has severely skewed opinion in England, but I imagine that his drug use and ither excesses might still be viewed in a dim light even in his native Argentina.
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Fifth!!!
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C. Ronaldo will be never be a great. He may just about have the skill, he does not have the temperament or intelligence, nor does he lead by eaxample.
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#6
what relevance does that have to this article or any of the comments made on the article?
if we're at that kind of stuff....
Heinz make the best beans in my opinion
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#1 - He's still very young and lets be honest, he won't be in the Championship for long.
From what I've seen of him he is abit lightweight for Premier League but that doesn't mean he won't make it there. Plenty of young players, especially from the Americas, have stuggled in England at first and gone onto be superstars.
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yeh tim tell us about Giovani dos Santos..what is he doing at ipswich (no offense at ipswich fans)..this guy scored a hatrick for his last game for barcalona
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No. 6 - Plazzy, I beleive the postbag comment was talking about Ronaldo the Brazilian striker now playing for Corinthians.
Not Christiano Ronaldo of Manchester United.
However, I feel you are further wrong by saying C.Ronaldo will never be a great. He certainly has everything necessary to become one of the all time greats, most importantly he still has plenty of time to achieve more.
If portugal produce a top class goal scoring striker in the next few years then they have everything needed to win a major tournament.
Even if they dont, George Best is considered one of the best ever and his international career is hardly sparking because he was from N.Ireland.
Ronaldo has the skills, but only time will tell if he becomes a true footballing great.
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6. Typical Liverpool fan...... He's on about Ronaldo, the Brazilian striker above! Not Cristiano Ronaldo!
Great read Tim. Cheers.
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4. maradona is a god in argentina despite his failings. much the same wherever he goes in the world. just look at the pics from the airport in scotland recently when he came w/ the national team...
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Nice historical perspective of the Argentina national team Tim. Faliure to qualify this time around would be much more of a disaster than 1970, back then Argentina did not have the burden of expectation of 2 time former champions, back to back Olympic champions and the most entertaining team from the last World Cup in 06. More than that back then there were only 3 qualifying places for South America, now they have 4.5 places.
As it stands it seems that only Paraguay are certain to qualify being so far ahead of the field, the rest of the places are up for grabs. If Argentina did miss out I think Maradona's reputation would be tarnished, but AFA who appointed him despite his dismal mid 90s managerial record (4 wins in 23 games?) would surely take most of the flak?
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re Giovani
Is it not the case that the dressing room at Barca was spilt and Giovani fell into the "wrong" crowd - Deco, Ronaldinho and Rafa Marquez.
Guardiola decided to get rid of the "troublemakers" hence Eto'o being put up for sale in the summer. He was very outspoken against Ronaldinho.
I heard on TV it got so bad, that 2 groups in the dressing room were trying to "recruit" Giovani and Bojan.
Bojan became friendly with the better pros in the dressing room, Messi, Xavi etc, while it was deemed that Giovanis choice of friends had been a bad infuence on him and had harmed his development.
That is the impression I got from what I saw in the media but of course may be totally wrong.
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Good luck to Maradona - i love real legends of the game and he is one... so i hope he builds an Argentina team in his own mould that excites us all and plays with absolute flair and quality....and then lose 4-3 to England of the final of the next world cup :)... i genuinely hope he does well - despite his fatness, alledged drug addiction* (i don't know if the BBC require to put "alleged" at this point), alledged alcoholism, etc, etc..
RE the Ronaldo comment - I couldn't agree more with the fac that Ronaldo was amazing.. to say he is better than Pele is maybe a step too far - but if he hadn'#t of got injured he would surely have been spoken about in such light... he was World player of the year 3 times (twice by the age of 21 - when a certain Mr Zidane was plying his trade at the peak of his powers.. his goalscoring record is amazing!... shame we will always talk about him in te "what he could have done" sense... as i really believe that injuries aside he potentially could have been world player of the year every year up until now - he was that good!
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At the end of the day is Gio Dos Santos was such a great prospect then:
a) Barca wouldn't have let him go
b) he wouldn't have been sold so cheap
c) there would have been a big club after him
From what I have seen he looks out of his depth in the Premier League. Sure he is young, and he could improve, but he won't be a superstar in my opinion.
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yes i am really much in line with what Taha Saleh mentioned about the forgotten three time world footballer of the year, who also at the same time became the youngest to win that prestige award if not mistaken two years or one year younger than the current reigning world footballer of the year Christiano Ronaldo, and for me Luiz Nazario Delima is no doubt the same class as Pele although Pele played in his first world cup at the age of 16 or 17 and Ronaldo was a squad member of the winning 1994 side at the age of 17 having won two world cup and one loosing finalst medal in 1998 and having overtaken German Muller as all time world cup goal scorer and someone still does not rate him as if not the second or third all time behind Pele, Distafano or even Maradona.
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It's funny how 99% of people choose Pele of Maradona as the greatest player of all time. I doubt most of these people have ever seen them kick a ball. They may have been the greatest, but to be honest wouldn't have a clue. I'd have to go for someone I have seen and would choose Zidane or Ronaldo (Brazilian of course).
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i am an African and i ahve a problem with the criteria used on how an individual is chosen a footballer of the year my Question is that why only someone playing in Europe is eligible to make it on the top ten as world footballer of the year, while in South America, Africa we do have better players compare to some in Europe.
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I think Riquelme's (for now at least)decision to quit the national team is a good thing for Maradona and the rest. There are some many rumours about his (Riquelme's) lack of affinity with Messi and Co. that I really believe his bad influence sooner or later would have
undermined the team.
Pellegrini at Villarreal had to send him off in order to maintain the balance. And just last year Paraguay's Julio Caceres gave an insight on Riquelme's influence as a Boca player.
With Riquelme out, I think Messi will put the team on his shoulders and carry them to the next level. Same thing happened at Barca. They had to get rid of Ronaldinho for Messi to finally explode like he did.
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Ronaldo Christiano is not the best player neither Gerrad of liverpool reason being that these footballer do not show case or put more efforts when wearing their national jerseys thats why the two countries are under achivers in world football, for me the best currently is Xavi Hernandez although some might argue that it is Lionel Messi but i will not argue with that but overall Ronaldo needs to prove that on national level not only for publicity and United.
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wether Mourinho goes it will not change Inter becoming a force in Europe because him Mourinho inherited the same rhythm team that still cannot even reach the CL final, not that it will not happen under Jose but it is only that it is a matter of time look at Chelsea the special one failed to take chelsea to the final but Grant managed to do that, for me Mourinho needs time to turn into into a European force.
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for the moment Man U will still continue to conquar england and europe at large but the question will we see the same united in ten years time once sir ferguson retired or are they going to fall behind like the liverpool of the 1990s where the like of Man c and Arsenal taking over their reigns because i dont seen Chelsea taking over anymore.
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Uuushona this is a South American football blog. You are just writing random things which have nothing to do with South American football.
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Post 22:
What has that got to do with anything, this blog is about the argentine national team and how maradonna will do as coach.
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Hi Tim,
Have to admit that I love reading your article's, and after a couple of years of just reading the blogs of the BBC writers, I now feel obliged to comment to yours.
As always you produce great, in-depth articles which I enjoy greatly, and being a trainee journalist you are an inspiration.
Back to the issues regarding Ronaldo, Maradona and Dos Santos:
I believe Dos Santos has the ability to succeed at the big stage, whether he does it is up to him! He just needs the determination, confidence and a great man manager, but I believe the potential is there. He is still young enough, but he may have believed in his hype too early.
As for Ronaldo, well just watching him while I was growing up, hoping to follow in his footsteps was a blessing. He had everything, but as others have stated, I think he'll go down as a 'what if' player. Not taking away what he's done of course, he'll still be regarded as the best striker in his generation. I know this is a very lame thing to say - but if anyone wants to refresh their memory on how good he was, then you only have to look at his youtube videos. Certainly up there as 'one' of the greats, but the greatest? Not quite.
Speaking of the greatest, i'm a firm believer that Maradona is. Born in '86 - I was given the nickname of Maradona by my family. To be honest I don't know why!? But I grew up watching his videos, and for a man to lead Napoli, who weren't quite A.C Milan, and Argentina (because lets be honest that side was not as good as the Kempes' days) to championships is an achievement in its own.
Taking the fact that we are only speaking on football terms. Maradona is unmatched, until Messi wins everything in front of him. I do not take into fact his personal life, his off-field problems and so forth, because at the end of the day no one bought magic to the field quite like Maradona.
The greatest player of all time.
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Hi Tim,
I like to plead with you to dedicate a column to the greatness of the Brazilian Ronaldo. He is my favorite footballer of all time, the greatest in this generation and I am truly deeply mystified by all the disrespect he is gotten. The WC 2002 was magical coz of him. He has excelled in every league..
Please give us something on this Phenomenon!
Sam
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A very good blog Tim. Very informative and eye-opening.
The only fault is not in the blog, but some of the comments. Some comments have no relevance and clash with the point of the blog.
As for some of the questions:
Dos Santos was considered below standard (in the opinion of Barcelona's bosses), as simple as that.
Ronaldo was better than Pele (who is overrated and as maradona rightly said about him "a friend of the football leaders and not the footballers & fans").
I was wondering what Tim's opinion would be on this as he is more qualified and knowledgeable than me on the matter. (I am NOT asking who is the best player ever - a waste of time in my opinion), I am asking; Is Pele not as perfect as he is made out to be or is Maradona just trading insults?
Thanks Tim.
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Good to read a blog that actually has some interesting facts in it, and not just the usual drivel that is spread about the bbc website (see 'robbo'). I think (to carry on the points above) Riquelme was from a different era of Argentinian football, and its new breed is too different for players like him. Argentinian style seems to be leading more towards flair, trickery and skill, much like the Brazilian game with players like Messi, Aguero and Tevez coming through. The superb one/two-touch football of the era with Riquelme, Veron and Cambiasso etc is slowly dying out. I could be wrong though!
Ronaldo (Brazilian) is probably the greatest striker i have ever seen. At the top of his game with his pace, power and clinical finishing there wasnt a defender on earth afraid of what he could do. With the possible exception of Zidane, he was the greatest player of my generation.
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...NOT afraid of what he could do....sorry, that was amateur.....
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Ronaldo is clearly the greatest out and out striker the world game has ever seen. His record should really speak for itself, and it is shocking how lowly he is regarded in general.
Even without the "what if" factor he is a legend made flesh. Look at how well he has recovered from career threatening injuries - just see the 2002 world cup.
I think (or maybe just hope) that this is simply the view taken in England, as at no point in his career have we actually seen much of him in action (other than at the world cups and the occassional european game).
Surely there should be no "what if". Ok, he may have touched the heavens themselves if not for injury, but his record speaks for itself and needs no defending.
What I worry about is the lack of true world class striking talent coming up to the Brazilian national team. Ronaldo followed on the heals of Romario, also a great, world-class striker.
For all the greatness of Kaka (and I also belive Ronaldinho will quieten his critics soon) surely Brazil need another goal machine if they are to attempt to reach the hights they achieved between 94-02.
Tim, who do you see as the natural successor to "The Phenomenon"
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Oh, forgot to mention, great article once again Tim (I'm sure I'm not the only one to wish you would write articles several times a week for the BBC).
Great history of the Argentine team, and good to see it has clearly quietened down the "you only ever write about Brazil" crowd.
However, surely the challenge Maradona is facing to qualify is barely an issue. With the players at this disposal, they should stroll into the World Cup (where, it pains me to say it, they will probably win it).
I personally see the Brazil game as an easy victory for Argentina, their physical advantage over their neighbours is surely getting less and less with time, and in Messi they have, quite simply, the greatest player in the world at present.
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23. At 2:04pm on 23 Mar 2009, Uuushona wrote:
for the moment Man U will still continue to conquar england and europe at large but the question will we see the same united in ten years time once sir ferguson retired or are they going to fall behind like the liverpool of the 1990s where the like of Man c and Arsenal taking over their reigns because i dont seen Chelsea taking over anymore.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry off-topic,
Uuushona sounds like one of those blocks in remote part of Africa with zillions trapped in Europe's biggest bank, they can't withdraw the money and want your help.
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Re: Giovani Dos Santos.
I'm a bit of a follower of all things Barca, and my understanding of the Dos Santos situation was this:
He, Messi and Bojan Krkic were from the same youth team, with Messi the outstanding talent that was fast tracked into the 1st team. They were all earning the same amount through the youth team pay structure which is not normally broken.
However, Messi caught the attention of so many clubs when he broke into the 1st team, Barca wanted to make sure that he wasn't poached in the same way as Fabregas. So they put him on a full senior pro salary.
Dos Santos' agent (his father, who is an ex-Brazilian pro) demanded the same for his son or he'd shop him around other clubs. Barca declined saying he wasn't yet at the level of Messi and told Dos Santos he was welcome to go if he didn't like it; which he did.
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I am not surprised the younger generation think Maradona was the greatest. They never watched Pele! Pele was out of this world...just think of a combination of Messi, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo that was what Pele was.
He had everything...EVERYTHING! Even post football he has maintained his discipline not getting into drugs or misbehaving. At 16 he was already a model professional, controlling the game with his passing and movement, scoring spectacular goals and laying on countless of goals for his team mates.
And what is more? Unlike Maradona he was never a glory-seeker!
There'll never be another like him.
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Enjoyed the article Tim...
Not sure what all the Ronaldo, Gerrard and Inter Milan references are doing on here? These childish arguments should be resigned to respective club blogs.
#20 I think your point about Riquelme and Messi is a good one, although I was a great admirer of Riquelme's skill... but there's no doubting just how special Messi is... another cracking goal on the weekend against Malaga. If he keeps his form going until next year and Maradona can sort out other aspects of the team.. Arg will have a great chance of winning the WC.
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Hey
Nice blog.
I read your blog very often and its great some one in the BBC have some useful understanding, knowledge and information on South American Football.
However
I would really like to know more about Coutinho. I believe he is coming to Inter Milan in 2010. Do you have any information on this player and is he a prospect and will he be a good addition like Maicon & Julio Cesar have proven to be.
Also is Diego Simeone a future Inter Milan Manager?
and Finally
Who would you regard as the Modern Phenomenon in World football? I believe its Zlatan Ibrahimovic. He is known as The Phenomenon No.2: The Genius. I wish he is a Balon d'Or 2009 Contender but Ibra & Inter were again unlucky in Champions League.
Cheers Tim!
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Tim,
The Ronaldo question and answer gives me the perfect opportunity to ask you something about his fitness.
During his stay at AC Milan, the doctors at the Milan Lab descovered that Ronaldo had hyperthyroidism and it was this they said caused his weight problems. With medication and a new fitness regime they then claimed that they expected him to return to a similar weight as he was in 1998. A few months later and his knee went back again.
Do you think these claims of Ronaldo having hyperthyroidism were just spin by the Milan Lab? If not, do you know if Ronaldo is continuing the medication to help his condition?
I've also noticed that Ronaldinho is begining to sparkle again this season, do you think that Ronaldinho has a big world cup left in him?
For pure romanticism I'd love to see Ronaldo and Ronaldinho make it to the 2010 World Cup Finals if Brazil qualify.
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Tim,
You hint at the 'dirty tricks' used at the 1978 World Cup by Argentina, there have indeed been rumours flying around for years about this. The idea that Argentina simply HAD to win that World Cup has I think fuelled the idea that many an underhand technique was used.
I think one of the more commonly heard rumours is that the Dutch team were surprised to find large quanties of Champagne and some ladies of, shall we say, questionable occupation waiting back at their hotel the night before the final. The Dutch squad, somewhat throwing will power out the window, indulged themselves till the early hours.
This story has a certain romanticism (and insanity) about it, I can't see Capello allowing that nowadays but I've never known how much truth there are in stories like this?
It was a great tournament win by Argentina but equally it was a great tragedy to see such a wonderful Holland team denied the World Cup many felt they deserved if such a thing can be 'deserved'.
Are the stories of debauchery and ladies of the night the stuff of folklore and perhaps slightly biased English imaginations or did anything go in '78?
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'A few months later and his knee went bang again' that should have read.
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Hi Tim and thanks for being mentioned in your column!
Other greats who have coached the national team are of course Stabile (record number of victories in Copa America but in charge of the team that collapsed in 1958 WC) and Passarella (only Argentinian to win the World Cup twice as a player), although I did not like him as a manager after his treatment of Fernando Redondo.
As for Maradona, I am not convinced by Grondona's decision to make him manager of the national team. His one strength appears to be to motivate the players, but does he have the personal skills to provide leadership in a group of inviduals? Isn't the fight with Roman just the first media fight blown out of proportion with many more to come? Having said that, I think that a shorther tournament like the World Cup will suit Maradona better than say an entire season with a club.
While we are at the topic of controversies and the 1978 World Cup, what do you make of Joao Havelange's recent statemens about the World Cups in 1966 and 1974, while denying that anything was fixed in 1978? What were the reactions in Brasil?
http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=753029
I believe that it was wrong to hold a WC in Argentina under these political circumstances. But where are the proofs of Peru not doing their best? Argentina's performance against Serbia in 2006 shows that it was indeed possible to win 6-0 against a Serbian team that finished ahead of Spain in their qualifying group.
I have always found the events in 1966, with an English referee favouring the Germans in Uruguay-Germany and with Rattin being sent off because the German referee "did not like the look on his face", to be far more suspicious.
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The bizarre events surrounding Ronaldo at the 1998 World Cup final will always leave question marks about him in many people's minds. It's much more refreshing to remember his 2002 World Cup. For me his talent was that he always seemed to make his move a split second before the opposition (and the crowd) expected. It's an uncanny skill that I can't recall seeing to the same extent in any other player.
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"It may be the case that without home advantage Argentina would not have triumphed in 1978."
Probably.
Although I find it too biased to say this while not even mentioning the same can be easily argued for Italy 1934 and England 1966. At least Argentina's goals crossed the line every time. To be fair, it should also mention the blatant case of South Korea in 2002. A quick search on youtube shows how they robbed Spain and Italy.
Moreover, Tim, I think you've been in Brazil too long to not have some against Argentinians. Where do you mention 1986? Or the run to the final game in 1990?
Same goes for the post about la libertadores becoming Brazil's cup. As a Colombian, I don't see it in the same light at all. Since 2000, Boca has made to the final 5 times. Of those 5, the only time it lost it was against Once Caldas. Furthermore, you should also mention what the percentage of Brazilian teams in the group stages is compared to that of other countries (same goes for the Sudamericana).
Your blogs used to be of great quality but you've become too biased now.
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RE death2smurfs and "Ronaldo had hyperthyroidism".
He has definitly not got hyperthyroidism! This is an over-active thyroid condition that essentially increases your metabolic rate causing, amongst other things, weight-loss (or a high difficulty in putting on weight), anxiety issues and an over-production of adrenaline. I should know, I have it!
He could however suffer from hypothyroidism, which as you might guess is in simple terms the opposite siuation.
I know Im being picky, but I thought I'd clear that up!
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I was a bit suprised that this article did not refer to the Riquelme retirment and Maradoneas role in this.
I am a Messi fan also, but what JR brings to the whole team in respect of cohesion was something we should not overlook. His skills are fairly unique whilst Messi is amazing, surely the role of a good coach is to accomodate all the best players and not marginalise such a crucial player.
Its a sad day if we never see Roman in the albicileste shirt. You just have to look at the reaction of the Bombanera last week to see who is the greater icon for Boca fans.
Hope Roman returns or Argentina wins/performs admirably in 2010 as otherwise Maradone will really have much answering to do
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Arguing about whether the real rondaldo was or wasnt better than pele or maradona is a pointless exercise as it's all subjective, depending on whether u grew up watching them, what qualities you value etc. Like Tim said, maybe ronaldo didn't have the influence all over the pitch like, by all accounts, di stefano had.
However, what is sure is that Ronaldo was a PHENOMENON!!!! A truly great scorer of great goals, and he did it against EVERYBODY. It's so sad that the media in this country partcularly love to bask in people's shotcomings and refer to him most commonly as being fat and/or buck-toothed, when in fact he was conistently one of the most awesome sights ever to grace a football field, a perfect marriage of mesmerizing skill, composure, pace, and power, and i don't think its widely enough appreciated that we may never see a striker of this fortitude for many generations. His goalscoring record speaks for itself, but the quality of many the goals is what sets him apart. He had as much skill as anyone, but the real difference was that he used the tricks effectively, not just for show. In my opinion only, it' incredible that he is not mentioned in the same breath as Zidane, and i think he may even have been a more unique talent.
And as much as people love poking fun at his fitness levels in he 2006 WC, which admittedly were way below par, it confirms just how good he is that he still scored 3 in 5 games (the one against Ghana particularly was a superb finish). Tim's right, if it wasn't for injuries taking a good many years from him, its quite scary to think of where he might rank now in people's opinions.
I thank Ronaldo for dazzling me like no other player I've ever seen in my time - i may be too young to have seen maradona and pele, but at least I was blessed to see you. God willing you will make 2010!!!!!!!!!!
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Post 45 I agree with you about the loss of Riquelme,bu Tim wrote an excellent article in a magazine called The Worldgame about the Maradona/Riquelme falling out and how their are problems on both sides.
Yes Riquelme got a raptuous welcome from the Bombonera, there were a few anti-Maradona banners in the crowd before the game against Argentina Juniors which Boca won 3-0.Can Daniel Montenagro be a fitting replacement only time will tell.
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43 - if you think this piece has some anti-Argentine bias then you must have some agenda - you're seeing what you want to see.
For the record, my pieces on this site are usually way longer - way, way longer - than they're supposed to be. In the battle against the word count I simply don't have space to explore every avenue and detour.
Italy in 34, England in 66 - sorry, no space to get it in. Not relevant to the argument. Maradona in 86 and 90 - not the focus of the piece, coevered quickly in the penultimate sentence.
Now, last week's piece on the Libertadores. You don't see any evidence of Brazilian domination. Well, of the last 8 finalsts, 6 have been Brazilian. of course, it is only in this century that 2 clubs from the same country can meet in the final, but all the same, this strength in depth (remember Argentina's chalenge has been reduced to Boca of late) is unprecedented.
Early days yet, but so far this year the Brazilian clubs in the libertadores have registered 8 wins and 2 defeats - only Palmeiras have lost. The Argentinians have 7 wins and 9 defeats - ony Boca haven't lost. The others have all lost twice, and San Lorenzo 3 times.
I'm not in favour of this development, cheering for it to happen - but it does seem to be happening - unless the numbers are biased.
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45 - I've got a piece on the Maradona - Riquelme ting on a site in Australia - www.theworldgame.com.au and scroll down to blogs.
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#35 i couldn't disagree more. it is obviously very difficult to compare players in different generations. having said that, pele did benefit from much easier defending than is seen today. the real question is- could pele make it in against defenses of today??
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Thanks Time- and what a nice opiece that is too- although thought of Argentina without Riquelme is enough to bring a romantic like me to tears.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
And your point is, JumpingJose? Silly me, there I was thinking this was a football blog. Muppet.
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#35
I have to agree with post #50 and please dont make Pele out to be a saint of the pitch because he wasn't...also Pele had the advantage to play with much more gifted teams than Maradona, look at where Napoli was with Maradona and what happened to them after he left...
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48- Tim,
No hidden agenda whatsoever. As I said, I really like your blog and it is quite refreshing amongst everything else in the BBC football page that cannot see pass ManU and Liverpool.
I just know too many Brazilians that would give the exact same arguments and omit exactly what I pointed out. I just don't see la libertadores becoming a Brazilian cup simply because of the fact that they have always been the favorites. For as long as I can remember - back in 89 when Nacional won it after taking out Millonarios under shady circumstances - we have always thought of Brazilian and Argentinian squads as the teams to overcome. I just don't see where this sudden revelation of them being the favorites can come from.
That, followed by the decades old argument about the 78 world cup, does lead me to believe you are rather pro-Brazil.
Personally, I think Maradona's appointment as Argentina's coach is a disgrace and more of a commercial exercise rather than anything else. I do hope him, as well as Dunga who's also not qualified to do his job, get his team deep into 2010 as they're the only 2 non-European title-contenders.
I wasn't trying to offend anybody. I just think that you're better than these last two pieces and that you've usually shown there's more than Brazil - Di Stefano's piece was absolutely amazing and I couldn't agree more on that one. Just think about it without getting offended and look at your recent posts to see if I'm lying when I say you're starting to become too Brazil-centered.
Enjoy the weekend of qualifiers.
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great stuff tim. loved the part about ronaldo.
i personally think cambiasso and mascherano are 2 of the best south american players at the moment. cambiasso is hugely under rated.
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56. At 8:24pm on 23 Mar 2009, Hod's Takin Le Tiss wrote:
great stuff tim. loved the part about ronaldo.
i personally think cambiasso and mascherano are 2 of the best south american players at the moment. cambiasso is hugely under rated.
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I agree with what you say.
He was Inter Milan Unsung Hero in 2008. He is a fantastic player. Cambiasso is a complete player with more technical ability, skills, tactical intelligence, passing precision and can score goals as well as defend.
Cambiasso has just recently signed a contract extension for at least another 4 years which is great for my team Inter Milan.
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Ronaldo is the best player of the modern era for me. Post injury his form was still incredible. Zidane is an obvious choice for some, and I think he is a brilliant player, but I often wonder where he would be rated now, had he not scored the two headers in the 98 WC final.
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Another great blog Tim.
It is always interesting to view the transformation from player-to-manager.
Maradona's turns at Mandiyú de Corrientes and Racing Club came far too early for him; and seemed more of a promotional venture for the clubs involved.
Argentina may see the best of him. He seems mentally and physically balanced and capable of delivering what he is promising. Possibly after a strong qualifiers and 2010 W/C, he may get the chance to manage his beloved Boca.
I wish him and his team the very best of luck in this campaign. A World Cup without Argentina, just doesn't bear thinking about.
Cheers,
MOP13
www.manonplatform13.blogspot.com/
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Hi Tim,
Interesting piece on Diego and Roman on the Australian site. I must say that I am with Roman on this, for the simple reason that Maradona himself would never accept being critisized or talked about as "asi no me sirve". I think his campaign as Argentina manager will collapse unless he stops communicating with everyone through the media. I would have loved to see another former great, Jorge Valdano, get the job, but I suspect he has been working too much in Spain and to little in Argentina to be considered.
Whether Roman's absence will be greatly felt is another matter though. I
I take your point about it being easier to accomodate a #9 like Batistuta or Crespo at their best, without having to find a place for Roman. But is there a #9 with enough quality to keep e.g. Aguero out of the starting 11? I would like to see Higuain be given a chance but Diego does not seem to be so keen on him. Do you have any idea why? The next question is whether a #9 like Batistuta or Adriano at his best is really necessary to win in 2010? I would love to have a 25-year old Batistuta but Brasil did quite well with Bebeto and Romario and a solid midfield and defense in 1994. So could not Argentina do the same with Aguero and Messi acting as Romario and Bebeto, and Mascherano/Gago acting as in my view a superior midfield pairing to Dunga/Mauro Silva? Perhaps with Diego Milito as a substitute to force an equalizer if needed.
Argentina's main problem could be in defense where they don't look as solid as Brazil 94 and are struggling to find a replacement for Ayala, even though Demichelis could be the man for #2.
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LostNowhere,
You are right - this is a football blog, so why the need for a petulant dig at Christian values or South American anti-communists?
What is your point?
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I'm sorry but I can't believe that Riquelme retired and will be not in the national squad in 2010.If it's true it will be a great loss.For me he his the best player in the world.
I can´t understand how the Argentine federation has choosen Maradona to take charge of Argentina.The same for Brasil and Dunga.
Argentina and Brasil deserve the best coaches ,because they have the best players in the world.Italy,Germany,Spain and the others are well behind.
I Think Ronaldo the first...o fenómeno,was the best player in the world during the 90's but then came the injuries...
But it´s easier to compare him with Eusebio,Gerd Muller but not with Pele,Maradona,Cruyff and Beckenbauer.Different roles.Anyway Ronaldo is the best striker I ever saw,nobody could stop"o fenómeno".
And I mean Ronaldo Nazario not the petulant overated cristiano.
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I really don't think Maradona has done much wrong with the whole Riquelme thing. He was asked on a show what he thought of Riquelme's play, and he said that he needed Riquelme to get further forward to make things happen for the two strikers, not to be taking the ball off the feet of Mascherano and Gago, that didn't work for him.
He has a point too, without a real number 9, the attacking midfielder does need to get forward and make those defence splitting passes and shoot from the edge of the box. If you saw Argentina in Chile under Coco Basile, they kept the ball all they wanted with Riquelme in the middle of it all, they just couldn't make anything happen.
The nearest Argentina would have to a true number 9 would be a choice between Denís, who isn't playing regularly at Napoli, Diego Milito, who is more a penalty area predator, or something truly from left-field like Palermo or someone else from domestic football.
For the qualifiers against Venezuela and Bolivia, Maradona has said that Independiente's Daniel Montenegro will take Riquelme's place, but this can't be a long term solution to play against the best in the world with. Maradona will need to find someone to play that role, and if he could find a decent 9, I think he'd put Messi in there with a free role. But as things stand, it could be down to calling back Aimar, or putting Maxi Rodriguez in there, who is a good goalscorer for a midfielder and works well with Agüero.
As for Cambiasso, he is a very good player, but he's unlucky that Argentina have a lot of holding midfielders available. Mascherano seems to be the first name on the teamsheet, Gago is playing well at Real Madrid, then there's Cambiasso and Ledesma at Lazio. He's unlucky in the same way that English centre-backs like Carragher, King, Woodgate et al are to have Terry and Ferdinand ahead of them.
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How was it a dig at Christian values? It was just a historical reference as to why their World Cup win had added significance. As a Christian myself I wasn't offended, and I think you would have to be pretty sensitive to find it offensive.
I'm just not sure why you feel the need to have a pop at Tim Vickery for no apparent reason. His blogs are quality and probably the only decent ones on this site. Not hard though when you have Phil 'let's state the obvious, write really really really long sentences, use every cliche in the book, sit on the fence and copy popular opinion' McNulty as the chief football writer.
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55 - I should show you the hate mail I got from Brazilians afer arguing that a win for Argentina in the Copa America would be for the good of the game!
The Libertadores thing - the rest of the continent doesn't want to believe this, but it's true - until comparatively recently it wasn't priority in Brazil. Sao Paulo's wins in the early 90s began to change things, but even after that the tournament was - until recently - extraordinarily low profile in Brazil.
97 - Cruzeiro got to the final - first leg wasn't shown on national TV, even on cable.
2002 - unitl the semis nothing at all of the competition was shown on TV here - it mght as well not have existed - and when Sao Caetano got to the final, their first leg wasn't on national TV, even cable.
This has now changed - it's now priority - and this helps create the new dynamic, where Brazilian teams are coming through so strongly in the competition.
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Tim,
Enough of the dirty trick innuendo regarding Argentina's victory in 78. They won the tournament fair and square. Some people make it sound like the dictatorship was some kind of KGB that could influence the results of the games. That's just silly. They were monster alright, but dumb monsters.
With greats like Kempes, Passarella and Ardiles at their best Argentina creamed Peru, comfortably beat a very good Poland (not as good as 74 and 82 though), and in the final defeated the Netherlands with style. Everybody mentions the suspicious 6-0 score vs. Peru. Nothing suspicious about it. This Peruvian team had a lot of flair but little heart. 4 years later, pretty much the same team (with Uribe in place of Cubillas) was destroyed 5-1 by Poland.
No extra-footie stuff took place in 78, just a great victory of the "viejo y querido fúbol argentino", like Menotti would say.
AntonioSaucedo
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#60: You are right that Argentina are struggling to replace Ayala, but I don't think Demichelis is anywhere near the man to put there, neither is Heinze. Both are too short (Ayala wasn't tall, but had a huge leap) and both of them are far too aggressive in trying to win the ball, both seem to think they HAVE to be first to the ball at all costs. While it's good when it works, against better attackers they will get caught out plenty of times.
Heinze is best used at left-back and Demichelis can fight it out for the 5 in my eyes. They would be far better off using the Inter pair of Burdisso and Samuel (if he's back from his knee surgery). Both are far better in the air and Samuel has always been a formidable defender. Put Garay on the bench to learn and play some minutes, and find another centre back to occupy the other squad spot, could be Diaz of Getafe, but he's nothing special, and neither is Coloccini.
The men they have most trouble replacing actually seem to be Pupi Zanetti and Sorín. Those two have been excellent full backs for many years and there doesn't seem to be a ready made replacement on either flank. Scaloni of Lazio is shaky defensively, Papa at Velez is a stop-gap, nothing more. Zabaleta showed he can do the job at right back, but he needs to play there and learn the positioning. It depends on how Argentina want to play. If they want width and a threat from the full backs, they should go for Pinola at left back and Scaloni on the right I think. If they want to be solid, especially in the air, then Heinze and Coloccini.
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Jumping Jose - the word 'christian' was in inverted commas - just as it appears here -to indicate a recongtion that what happened under the Argentine military dictatorship was a sick perversion of such values.
Is it petulant to consider the assassintion of some 30,000 people a bad thing?
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RE CerealTeaLeaf,
Yes it was hypothyroidism I meant, I know the difference between the two but the lack of edit button prevented me from changing my typo. Seeing that mistake will bug me for days.
------------------
Back to topic...
Maradona seems to be led by his enthusiasm and passion, his support for Boca on match days is testament to this, but being in charge of argentina, isn't more than this needed?
One of my football hates is when I hear critics say 'I could have won X with that team', or as I heard many times following the 2002 WC, 'my gran could have won the world cup with that Brazil team.'
Highly disrespectful in my view.
I don't know what the argentine set-up is like, does Maradona have good tactical coaches around him or generals at his side who are not yes men?
It will be interesting to see how Maradona deals with the criticism that will surely follow after a bad spell.
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Tim, I've read you blog for a while and love it. I have just one question: Why do you always reply to the detractors and nutters?
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Tim, obviously the next few blogs will be dedicated to the international qualifying games across the continent and the repercussions that follow, but if you're stuck for something to write some week I'd love to see your take on the plight of Argentina's Racing Club. A new president who promised investment in the squad, so they bring in 5 players ... 4 on loan, and they only bought 20% of the rights of the other.
A slightly rhetorical question perhaps, but where is all the money disappearing to, the public intervenor on behalf of the province of Buenos Aires said there was always money to pay players under De Tommasi. Now it seems that one of Argentina's big 5 is set for relegation, and given that this has happened to Palmeiras and others in Brazil, do you think that Racing could bounce back like they did if they went down, or would it be a lasting exile from the top flight?
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RE 21shergar,
Romario was the master at what you described. I think it may have been Tostao who said that Romario knew what a defender was going to do before they did. Watching Romario play, I believe it.
I do believe that Ronaldo will never get the respect he deserves from the British public. On many occasions a player abroad is under appreciated and dismissed in the UK. Too much weight is often put on how great the stars of the premier league are compared to the rest of the world.
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70 - sorry, you're not mad or critical enough to get a reply!
Truth is, sometimes I just can't help myself. More self-discipline needed!
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Maradona I think deliberately tried to insult Riquelme because of the divide in the camp after he insulted Messi before the Copa America final.Under Basile he could getaway with it because Argentina was built around him Basile having set himself the task of imposing Argentinas beautiful pass game on the World.After their 2 victories in Europe Diego figures hes better off without Roman.This week will tell us abit about that.As for full backs he has I think decided because of Argentinas lack of width he needs attacking full backs such as Papa of Velez and Angeleri of Estudiantes.Interestingly I think Juan Veron will be a big benificiary of Riquelmes exile hence his interest in joining River or San Lorenzo in June he needsa high profile.
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LOL vickery replying to other commenters is extremely funny.
I just hope this doesnt get deleted like they usually do on mcnulty and..erm...that new guy on F1...humphreys.
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It's interesting that not many with the 'Maradona genius' on the field, with great vision and skills become a football manager/coach. Just to mention some for example...Paul Gascoine, George Best, Jimmy Greaves, Sir Stanley Mathews....there is/was Kevin Keegan though!
Alan
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Hey,
Intriguing article as always! Lots of opinions, but with the stats to back it up...the exact point of a blog! Shame some see an opinion as an attack on their own beliefs, same not all are as dedicated enough to research their own opinions before spouting off nonsense! (sorry #70, Im with Tim, they do grind you down eventually! haha!)
Can I ask, with hours/days of the PC game Football Manager behind me, the relevance of work permits these days? When I was younger, say early to mid 90's, I seem to recall them being a big deal. I know Gordon Strachan after the Shakter Donetsk game a few season backs made a point as well about the simplicity of teams of Shakter's and indeed non-UK standings attracting young south americans, getting the usage out of them on the field, then selling them on for profit. What criteria do they look at? I know it has something to do with international experience, but is there a panel of "experts" who decide the future potential of a young player? What is the process behind it, and indeed how hard is it to obtain a permit?
Back to my FM2009 now!
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With all the talk now on England’s 2018 World Cup bid, how is Brazil coping with the Global recession in its preparations for the 2014 finals?
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Mr.Vickery i have just confirmed that you don't like argentina. Ofcourse it was foolish of me to expect to impartiality from an Englishman living in Brazil towards Argentina.I can happily tell you England will not win another world cup outside. even then they would need a huge support from refree like 66.
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"Mr.Vickery i have just confirmed that you don't like argentina"
Eh?! How can you confirm that he doesn't like Argentina? In that case i can confirm that Tim Vickery believes Stan Lazaridis to be the greatest player the world has ever seen, and that Birmingham City will be world club champions within the next five years.
"I can happily tell you England will not win another world cup outside"
Brilliant, i can't wait for the indoor world cup in 2018!?! Furthermore, i'd like to ask how an Ethiopian can make such bold predictions about the English national team?
As an added point, i'm English and actually have a huge respect for the Argentinian national team, and would like to see them do well in 2010 WC.
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WHAT WAS MARADONA,S BEST FOOT ?
A silly question as everyone knows the answer .
I raise the subject as I watched Martins of Newcastle prepare to take a penalty with his weaker foot on Sunday .
I was not surprised when I saw the result .
Never mind bringing in Terry Venables . What chance do Calderwood and Hughton have when this happens .
I dont know what was going through Martins mind - did he think he would deceive Almunia ?
The clever penalty rarely works -remember Ronaldo,s TWO attempts against Barcelona and Chelsea last year .
I am sure Fergie raised the riot act but I cant see C and H being able to do it with Martins .
A players best foot is the one that he works the ball with when he is running .
There is no doubt in my mind that Martin,s best foot is his left .
John Davidson
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It used to be said "history is the mother of all sciences". Tim Vickery continues to rekindle our love for the importance of history. This is a well written and rich piece by the renowned and much appreciated Tim on the progress and evolution of football in modern Argentina.
Metro cities have state-of-the-art infrastructure for staging big and spectacular events but the players have to be searched and found from the hinterland. Going beyond Buenos Aires Argentina has been able to field strong and attractive teams in recent times.
In India we experienced similar patterns for our cricket and football. Not so long ago our footballers and cricketers used to be from the big cities like Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, Bangalore, Hyderabad and from the City of Joy. Not any longer though.
Things have changed fast from the time India won the cricket World Cup in 1983. That world cup winning team was led by the legendary Indian all time great Lt. Col. Kapil Dev Nikhanj, popularly known as the Haryana Hurricane. This large hearted all rounder from a small Indian town went on inspiring thousands of youngsters in Indian villages to aim higher. As a result India has more and more talented cricketers coming from our villages and making it big on the national and international stage.
Football too is no longer the center of attraction for youngsters in Indian cities but in villages the game is played with passion and enthusiasm. Villages in Sikkhim, Manipur, Meghalaya, Mizoram, West Bengal and Kerala keep on attracting youngsters to the football fields.
In the heavily urbanized State of Goa, football is less and less a passion among the city and town dwellers. But villages in South Goa provide the bulk of footballers for Goa's renowned football clubs such as Dempo Sports Club, Salgaocar SC, Sporting Clube de Goa and Vasco Sports Club.
Lovers of Indian football have been impressed by the performances of Dempo footballers Samir Naique, Mahesh Gawli, Clifford Miranda, Anthony Pereira, Climax Lawrence, Nascimento Silveira, Nicolau Borges, Peter Carvalho, Domnick Noronha, Joaquim Abranches, Joe D'Souza, Clifton Gonsalves, Valeriano Rebello, John Dias and their team mates from Brazil, Nigeria and the rest of India. I-League Champions Dempo Sports Club have been doing well in the Asian Football Championship and the Cup ties. They have scored some memorable victories against well known clubs from West Asia and are still going strong.
Thanks Tim for your input on the evolution of football in Argentina. I would love to see Diego Maradona and Argentina succeed in their World Cup qualifying campaign. Having Argentina and Diego Maradona gracing the football arenas in Jo'burg, Cape Town, Pretoria, Potchefstrom, East London, Port Elizabeth, Durban and other football venues in South Africa would be simply fabulous. Best wishes to Senor Diego.
Dr. Cajetan Coelho
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Spot on re Ronaldo not the getting credit he deserves. The thing about football is very few players are able to maintain a high level of consistency throughout their careers and are often remembered for the lows rather than the highs. Fans are unforgiving in that respect.
Pele appears to have been consistent but then he avoided the rigours of European football. Zidane maintained an excellent level of consistency and achieved everything in the game. A true great and one that will be apreciated more as the years pass. Di Stefano too, showed consistency, though only at club level as he didn't win an international tournament, though that isn't entirely his fault. He suffers, I believe, from playing just before the television age.
Cruyff, however, bottled it on the big occasions (74 and 78 finals). He doesn't deserve to be named the greatest. Too arrogant and self-centred in what is a team game. Maradona seemed to reinvent himself during a period of 3 incredible years but overall he wasn't as consistent as those mentioned above. His unbelievable genius seems to have mitigated against this. One friend of mine says he is the only player to win a world cup on his own.
Sadly for Ronaldo he will always be remembered for being fat and lazy at Real Madrid. Capello famously saw him in the changing room and asked "aren't you ashamed of yourself?" And he is also not viewed so fondly these days, like Michael Owen though Ronaldo was far better, because he changed his game from one based on pace to one based on nous. He had to do this because of injury. But when you've seen a player do this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsuhz-VbaYg - it's hard to accept him simply as a strong and intelligent penalty box striker. The appeal is infintely less.
Watch him in his pomp and he was truly one of the greatest players ever. His record speaks for itself too - an undisputed legend of the game.
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no. 80
i have observed time & again, Mr. Vickery write about Argentina with lots of negativity. he has tried to belittle the talents of emerging Argenitnes in the past. now he has tried to belittle their previous success which they have secured on the pitch.
they have not the world cup with goal that never cross the line.
i watch a lot of football & hence my nationality doesn't matter as to how i make predictions. the talent available to England is average at best.
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Well done Tim - it seems that (despite the odd comment) come up with in depth analysis which genuine football fans of many long standing years appreciate.
It's a refreshing change from the lazy, sound-bite fuelled, siloed nonsense that many blogs on many sites spurt.
By the way someone commented on never seeing Pele play so how can they consider him to be the greatest player. A fair point though consider I never saw and have only ever met one person that did see Don Bradman play cricket though generally considered by 99% of cricket fans to have been the greatest cricketer.
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#84
Is this the same Tim Vickery who 'belittled' Eduardo Salvio a couple of weeks back as an exciting prospect?
I guess people read what they want to read rather than what's actually on the page sometimes!
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no.84
You are just a wind-up. If Tim was so AGAINST Argentina then there would be many that would not be reading this blog. Infact, if he was biased against any nation then the same would appeal.
If you think he has spoken negatively of Argentina's talents, then you only have to look at his previous articles, i.e. Messi (youth championships) and Aguero etc etc.
What Tim provides is history into the game in South America. Something which we should learn and enjoy while we can.
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#84 eferemhi -
Any tiny shred of credibility that your 'Tim is anti-Argentina' argument has is gone thanks to your attempts to insult Tim with anti-English comments.
Tim has stated time and again that he hates the whole nationalistic arguments that often occur on these blogs. Tim might be English but he doesn't, I'm guessing, particularly care about or support the England national team. You can't comprehend this as all you see is one nation against the other.
If you want to insult Tim, choose another angle my friend
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#84 Did someone from Brasil do something to you? it seems your main reason to post is to draw interest to yourself or some perceived minor injustice and what's your beef with England by the way? I am really pro-Argentinian as I have spent a great deal of time there and my wife is from Argentina, a fantastically interesting country all round. I wouldn't consistently read Tim's pieces if I thought it was all Brasil is ace - blah blah. He consistently writes about the whole continent.
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It is also worth noting that there are many Argentinians who, whilst being pleased by victory in 1978, actually felt much more joy (and some relief) at the victory in 1986 as they felt the '78 win was tarnished by the militarios and was held up to be 'their' nationalist victory rather than a victory felt to be 'for' the people, like Maradona and his team mates' victory. I'm not saying this is the only view but it is one I have heard expressed many times in Argentina.
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Hi Tim
Please continue to reply to the detractors and nutters. It makes for a good read!!
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It appears to me that you're very anti-English eferemhi, which is massively hypocritcal when you are accusing Tim of being anti-Argentinian. Although the argument about English talent has no place on a blog for South American football, i believe that to call the talent of the national team "average at best" is off the mark. Whilst i don't believe we are the world-beaters the rags like to make out pre-tournament i think we are a cut above "average at best" should Capello bring the best out of a talented if over-rated group of players.
To use the old "ball didn't cross the line" argument regarding 66 really is very childish. It was a split-second decision that the linesman after much debate appears to have gotten wrong. Tell me that a dodgy decision has never gone Argentina's way in any WC match?! Anyway, let's not hark on about a completely irrelevant event of over 40 years ago and concentrate on the thread...
I think Tim consistantly writes some of the highest quality football pieces on the net, and to accuse him of being anti- anyone is slightly wide of the mark. The argument that he would be against the Argentinian due to his nationallity is flawed as i too am English and have a huge respect of Argentinian football.
I was dissapointed to hear the news about Riquelme, i've always rated him amongst the best in the world. In terms of knowing the game, knowing what ball to play and when he's superb, and i fear the Argentinian's may miss that over the next 18 months or so. Yes it may give Messi the chance to become the undisputed talisman of the national side but i think the ba;lance between his brilliance with ball at feet and JRR's threaded passes could have really terrorised European opposition.
I also think that no matter who was at the helm, this group of players would be able to get into the WC and make a big, big impact there. The question is whether they can put it all together at the right time and go further than 2006 where they were undoubtedly one of the best footballing teams there but just didn't do the business...
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I dont think Tim is anti Argentine futbol but living in Brasil will give him at least a slight edge towards that great futebol nation.You have to recognize the rivalry that exists bewtween the 2 countries on the field is unmatched anywhere else.Every game every stat at every level will be pred over to gain an advantage.Brasil lead the Mundial count 5-2 but Argentina lead in Copa America,Libertadores,Olimpics sub 20 but we are behind in sub 17.There is also the debate as to which school is the more attractive which is why Riquelme is such an emotive issue in Buenos Aires
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Also, i'd like to apologise for my comment regarding your nationality. It was a childish knee-jerk reaction to the irrelevant England bashing that i'd read. It doesn't matter where you're from, you can always have a good knowledge of the game.
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I'd like to echo the people defending Tim against blind nationalist idiots. Those of us who regularly read his pieces know very well that he is a footballing internationalist, who doesn't have enough interest in the England team to mention it. Like any English football fans who aren't themselves blinded by national rivalry, he has great appreciation of the great Argentinian footballers, and I don't think he'd have any difficulty or embarrassment stating publicly that Argentina has produced better sides and superior players than England over the years.
Or perhaps he has devoted his career to south American football as an opportunity to further his secret Brazilian-English hatred of Argentina?
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Tim,
I am very suprise you chose to write on this in your blog rather than Riquelme quiting the international team. He is a very important playmaker in the team and the likes of Messi and Aguero would not make much imapct without a good playmaker. I am not sure if Ibagaza has been called up but he hasn't got that much international experience to fit in his boots.
Maradona publicly criticising a player is also unheard of and this might be the begining of his downfall.. To be honest I never see him been a successful coach, he should have maintained his reputation just like Pele did and stay ou tof management.....................
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A nice piece of history but then you don't really attempt to answer the question posed. Given the bias towards S. America it is very difficult for Argentina and/or Brazil *not* to qualify for the finals but will Diego's side prosper much beyond that? A prediction now would be refreshing given that most 'bloggers' change their mind about the Premier League with each passing game.
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Tim Vickery,
To balance things up, why not try to post something with 'muslim', 'Marxist' or 'Jewish' in inverted commas? I bet you won't and here's why: such groups would be the first to scream 'foul' if you even hinted that someone had done foul deeds in their names.
Why was standing up to communists a 'sick perversion of Christian values'? Do you know anything about communism?
Why don't you stick to writing about football and stop making cheap digs at Christianity, you BBC
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Just in case there are some Christians out there who have taken offence...
If I write that killing 30,000 people (not 'standing up to communism' - interesting how the goalposts were switched there) is a sick perversion of Christian values, the reasonable man would see that as a sentence IN FAVOUR of such values.
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97 - there's nothing to base a prediction on as yet. We'll have to see maradona's team in competitive action before judging them.
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JumpingJose
It is good that you have made it clear to the readers of this blog that your main motivation is to defend not Christianity, but the death squads and 'Guerra Sucia' of the military juntas that ruled Argentina from 1978 to 1983, whose actions have been described as 'crimes against humanity' by Argentina's law courts.
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"Argentina's place in South Africa next year is far from guaranteed."
Be honest Mr. Vickery, even without the benefit of 'competitive action' do you *really* believe that? I can understand your reluctance to project too far to the finals themselves but qualification?
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#97, What do you mean with Bias towards South America? I think South America have fewer places than they deserve, 6 without having to play a decider against CONCACAF would be more appropriate. They same goes for Europe. Consider the following stats after the WC was expanded to 32 teams for France 98:
South America 14 starters 9 qualified for Last 16
Africa 15 starters 3 qualified for Last 16
Asia+Oceania 13 starters 3 qualified for Last 16
Europe 44 starters 29 qualified for Last 16
Concacaf 10 starters 4 qualified for Last 16
So ranking the continents by proportion, we obtain
Europe 0.66
South America 0.64
Concacaf 0.4
Asia/Oceania 0.23
Africa 0.2
This suggests a more fair distribution of World Cup qualifying spots might be
Europe 19
South America 6
Concacaf 3
Asia/Oceania 2
Africa 2
Surely, the poor records of Africa, Asia and Oceania makes it look ridiculous that they will have a staggering total of 11 participants in 2010.
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102 Mr rabster, it's not widely appreciated outside South America just how hard World Cup qualification is in this part of the world.
Both Parreira and Scolari (World Cup winning coaches in 94 and 2002 respectively) are agreed - once you're there, winning the thing is easier than qualifying. Ever away game is a battle. Brazil nearly missed out in both tournaments mentioned above, which they went on to win. Argentina came close to missing out in 86, which they won - and, as stated in the article, they failed to qualify for 70.
If it's so easy, how can you explian how theyhave one win in seven? And the run in is tough. I fully expect them to qualify, but I honestly don't beleive their place is guaranteed.
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#67
I don't agree at all about Heinze being better at left back, he is far too slow. In general I see him as a security risk also in central defense, as Brasil has shown several times. Demichelis is not Perfumo, Ayala or Passarella but he is the best #2 we have. I don't rate Burdisso and Samuel has to return to be "Il Muro" like at Roma to make the starting eleven. He also seems to be struggling with injuries.
My favoured defense would be Zanetti, Demichelis, Garay and Insua, or possibly Zabaleta,Demichelis,Garay and Zanetti at left-back. I agree that it has been very difficult to replace Sorin, I don't rate Papa and Insua is promising but perhaps too inexperienced? Does the lack of good fullbacks mean we should consider switching to playing three at the back, as Diego seems to be planning against the Vino Tinto on Saturday?
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Tim,
You weren’t standing up in favour of Christian values – you were having a cheap shot. There was no need to drag Christianity into it at all.
To show us what a brave journalist you are, now let’s see you ‘defend’ islam in the same way.
Why don't you restrict your writing to football?
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Tim, I believe that my post #103 shows that South American teams, together with Europe do very well at the finals compared to teams from other continents.
Another example of how tough qualification in South America can be: Brasil lost six of nine away games in the qualifiers for 2002, and only secured their place in the finals in the last game against Venezuela. When coming up against four European sides (Turkey twice, Belgium, +England+Germany), Costa Rica and China, they one seven games in a row, becoming the first team since Argentina in 1986 to win the WC without needing a penalty shoot-out!
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Red Russian,
My main motivation is to tell Tim to stick to football and shut his mouth about Christianity. The political situation in Argentina had less to do with Christianity than with the government fighting evil materialist God-hating communists (you should know how bad they are as a Russian). When muslims fight communists they are described as freedom fighters, when Christians do it, it is somehow frowned upon. Why?
There was no need to drag Christianity into this debate (or muslims) so why do it?
Why not just stick to football?
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JumpingJose how stupid are you? Tim has responded to you about three times and you still can't figure it out. "Supposedly defending 'Christian' values". So first of all 'Christian' is in inverted commas. Tim is implying that what they were doing was not at all Christian. Are you too ignorant to read between the lines?
And then there is the word 'supposedly'. Which again shows he doesn't think they were representing Christian values at all. So you are having a pop at Tim for apparently slating Christian values when he is doing pretty much the opposite. Do you understand now genius?
And why are you so sensitive? You seem to have your image of how Christianity and Islam and perceived completely mixed up. Have you opened a newspaper in the last 10 years?
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JumpingJose,
perhaps English is not your first language?
Tim's comment was in no way critical of Christianity, you don't seem to understand the use of inverted commas, and you are merely making yourself look foolish. I suggest you stop digging now.
As for Maradona, he never struck me as a likely candidate for management, so much of what he did as a player seemed to be pure instinct, not the sort of thing you could communicate to a squad. He should certainly provide inspiration and it will be fascinating to see what tactics he employs. Giving the captaincy to Mascherano has certainly made me sit up and take notice!
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JumpingJose, why are trying turn a football debate into a political/religious one, when there clearly is no basis to do so? Grow a brain or at least learn to read the article you are commenting on.
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#83 said: "Pele appears to have been consistent but then he avoided the rigours of European football."
Well, considering Brazil won 3 world cups in the decades pelé was playing, it would be more correct to say: Pele played under the rigours of brazilian football, avoiding european football low levels...
Also very curious to say "appears to have". Can't see how someone who was three times world champion, scored more 1200 goals (whether accurate or not), is Brazilian's Seleção all-time scorer and was nine (yes, nine) times in a row top scorer of a championship only "appears to have been consistent".
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#103 My point of bias was in comparison to Europe so you have proved my point for me. You suggest Europe should have 19 places but will be allocated 9...
Mr. Vickery, I will accept your expert knowledge.
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My apologies for the above. I realised the moment I hit send my statement regarding qualification was wrong. I just wish you could edit your own comments. :)
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Tim,
I've just finished reading 'El Diego' and was surprised to see the power Maradona had at club and country in picking teams and signing players - if he wanted someone to play he'd tell the manager he wouldn't play unless that player played - Canigga an example.
I was wondering if the quick exclusion of Riquelme has ensured that Maradona retains all power and his reign of Argentina coach stays an autonomy. I know he's lost a good player but maybe that brings the squad closer together - something Maradona is adament of to increase the chance of victory.
http://www.worldfootballcolumns.com
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lostinmybathroom, Nessy76, lostnowhere,
I am not trying to turn it into a religious debate. I just get angry with cheap shots, that is all. There was no need to connect anti-communism with Christianity (whether in inverted commas or not) as if Christians are the only ones who hate communists (who the Argentinian Junta made suffer).
The BBC hates Christianity and sucks up to communists. They did this during the Cold War and it infests Auntie to this day.
Why can't people like Tim just stick to football? If you drag religion into it, of course people are going to get angry.
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JumpingJose,
I sort of understand where you are coming from. However, Tim's article was 90% about football. Personally I find the occasional historical references pretty interesting; South American football has a very rich history after all. Granted the comment didn't have a great deal to do with football, but it was only one sentence and it was relevant to what was being said.
If you still think it was criticising Christianity, perhaps you need to read it one more time. If it was, I'm sure there would be a lot more people having a go.
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115 you are near the mark but i beleive as do most in Argentina that Roman is a genius but as with most introverted people who are brillaint very dificult to handle and egotistical.Which doesnt help in a squad situation and a bad relationship with the other genius in the squad makes it even worse
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Whether this is an indictment of 2009, but there seems to be a lack of reading comprehension by some & others looking for issues where there is none.
The 'Christian' statement was perfectly clear to comprehend without the need to find controversy.
As the paragraph clearly intimated the dictatorship did what they did in the name of 'Christian' values as to justify their senseless & horrendous actions, and in doing so showed how they were doing nothing Christian of the sort. Not to trivialise it but, it was as futile as if I were to drive at 100mph, get caught for speeding then claim I was a 'racing driver'.
For historical & social context Tim's mentioning of what was happening in Argentina at the time was perfectly legitimate. Too many commentators are far too happy to gloss over or even ignore external factors when talking about their subject.
Football, race and politics in South America is fascinating, all have significantly shaped the region.
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For military junta read "fascist abusers of anyone who doesn't agree therefore they are 'communists'" even though the vast majority were not communists from any philosophical point of view. Either way they didn't deserve to be murdered just because their views were inconvenient.
For ridiculous linguists - try reading words as part of paragraphs and sentences rather than isolating them, homing in and then offering criticism on the basis of some bizarre defense mechanism...before coming to the conclusion that an article relating to football is an attack on you. (this is a point that relates to all theistic bigots and probably political idiocracies tambiem/ as well!). Its something we see all the time these days and I'm glad to see a trend of people feeling less afraid to speak in a manner that is less censored yet more considered in terms of argument. Don't let the idiots stop you please!!
Jumping Boludo/Jose whatever? - you should be reading Darwin and many other things before you even concentrate on your typing skills mate....Marx might might even teach you a more holistic picture of socialism just like you ask of your 'Christian' values...
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Once again great article (mainly) great debate - cheers to all the faithful, keep the idiot baiting live please!!!
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I meant - great article....great debate (mainly)-----pesky SA buses in the Andes, just can't type, therefore it negates everything I commented on.
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JumpingJosePelotudo - just clocked your notes on Ernesto 'Che' Guevara, probably the most informed view of the man yet and I actually spent some quality time with a man who witnessed his execution (albeit absolutely unwillingly) trying to understand something of this history! I bow down to your considered intelligence my friend.
Everyone else - enjoy the qualifiers! Tim are you attending any of the matches? We unfortunately will not as my wife is pregnant here in the UK so we will be watching Argentina on Sky with Argentinian commentary blasting out of t'internet!!
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The original count is not 30000 disappeared, it more around 5000 with many still "appearing" alive in Spain, Mexico or Chile.
All the human lives are valuable, the same if they are 5000 or 1. What bothers me a bit is when the people forgets the other side of the history and specially when one of the deaths in that other side was part of your family.
Better to stick to football instead trying to debate about a historical period that no one here looks knowledgeable about to give an opinion.
Tim, this Montenegro call is a smoke screen to later give the playmaker position to Veron? Somehow I believe that Maradona always wanted Veron instead of Riquelme.
Cheers
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Currently living in Buenos Aires, I'm quite taken aback how confident Argentinians are about thier current national team.
The press and general public haven't even considered not qualifying a possiblity, but, I agree with Tim that qualification is by no means guaranteed.
It's not just the damning 1 win in last 7 qualifiers stat, but they simply haven't played well in any of those games at all.
The country continues to produce great attacking talent, but they are woefully short on quality defenders and goalkeepers in my opinion - Argentinians appear to be blind to this?
Personnaly, I think there's more to the Riquelme business than has come out so far.
However, it was always difficult to see how Riquelem and Messi would hit it off together. I didn't think they combined well even in the Olympics. Riquelme likes to take his time on the ball, waiting to pick out the perfect pass for the strikers in front of him to run onto, whereas Messi is a fast, explosive striker, who likes to drop back and start his runs from deeper positions, taking up positions in areas of the pitch that is Riquelme's territory.
Could Riquelme and Maradona have played together, do you think, Tim? - if they had been around at the same time, or would they have got in each other's way?
Great article - as always.
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JumpingJose
One last attempt to get through to you:
Tim was not attacking Christian values or Christianity. The inverted commas he used made it clear - even before he subsequently clarified his position even more emphatically - that he rejected the military junta's claim to be acting in accordance with Christian values. It's very clear to all that Christianity is opposed to drugging people and then throwing them into the ocean from aeroplanes - even when some of them are communists.
You are portraying your position as a defence of Christianity. However, you have also hinted that you consider the Guerra Sucia of the Argentine junta justified. There are two possibilities as I see it:
a) You consider the 'vuelos de la muerte' (death flights) justified in terms of a Christian defence against communism, and object to this combined attack on Christianity and the honourable death squads.
b) Despite everything, you are still mis-reading the sentence in question as an attack on Christianity. You don't support the Argentine extremists and you somehow think Tim is depicting their actions as Christian ones, rather than a perversion of Christianity.
By the way, since you made assumptions about my background based on my user name, I will clarify. I'm not Russian, but English; but I studied Russian, lived in St Petersburg for some time and speak the language every day at work and to friends. And I'm not 'red' in the sense of communist, but as a supporter of a football club that wears red. (This is, after all, a football blog.) And at the time I registered the name seemed a nice play of words on two familiar beverages which contain vodka.
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The fact that Argentina was under the control of a brutal military dictatorship during the 1978 World Cup is a relevant point in a blog about the Argentina national team. It is interesting to see how the defenders of the Junta are attempting to turn this discussion away from fotball towards a defence of crimes against humanity.
I met some of this deluded minority when I lived in Argentina, they still maintain that Argentina, Chile etc were better places during the dictatorship when you could be dragged out of your home and extrajudicially assassinated for criticising the government, when pregnant dissidents were kept alive until their children were born, then killed and the children adopted to supporters of the regime that killed their mother. The claim that the dissapeared are all living in Europe is another well worn fantasy they like to present to anyone daft enough to listen.
I suppose that if you have been brainwashed to hate communism, you will defend anything at all that is described as anti-communist, even well documented crimes against humanity.
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76 - you are wrong about Gascoigne and Stanley Matthews. Matthews managed Port Vale for a short while in the 60s, while Gascoigne managed (I THINK) Kettering Town a couple of years ago, albeit also not for long.
50 - "pele did benefit from much easier defending than is seen today. the real question is- could pele make it in against defenses of today??" You seem to forget (or are unaware) that what is given as a foul these days wouldn't have merited the ref's attention when Pele played. If Pele was given a foul each time he was kicked, like players are today, I think he'd have ended up with even more goals.
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Finally, someone who agrees that brazilian ronaldo is the greatest player of all time! I remember watching him play at old trafford against united and i was just totally blown away by him. I've always been a big fan of ronaldo and all the criticism he has been given in his career is just plain ridiculous. Players like Torres and Henry, these great players of modern times, i generally feel haven't got a patch on ronaldo, and i'm so glad that things look to be wroking out for him in Brazil. Next stop..2010 World cup..where the return of ronaldo will be complete!
As for the actual blog (when i read the ronaldo bit, I kinda lost concentration) i think argentina are a great side, and to have a great player like maradona around as coach to guide them i think can only benefit the side. Players like Messi, Aguero, Tevez, players who are still young and learning the international game, will only benefit from having a person of maradona's personality and experience around. I fully expect to see them gracing the grandest stage of them all in 2010...along with ronaldo=)!
Great work Tim!
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I cant believe maradonna has had such a bust up with riquelme that hes called it a day, great shame, it really is, hes an immense distributor of the football he can raise the argentine team with his passes to the likes of messi. The only reason argentina lost the 2006 world cup semi final was because the argentine manager took riquelme off for no apparant reason on 70 minutes when he was absolutly running the game, and then they went on to lose their grip on the game ad eventually the game it self... maradonna could well end up regretting his differences with riquelme because for all the god players they have like messi, aguero and mascherano, you need a passer to control the game, man utd got scholes, liverpool got alonso, and barcelona got xavi, arsenal got fabregas, these players just keep the game ticking and play in the real goal scorers and game winners who make the difference. Trust me when i say argentina will not be as good as in the previous couple of years, granted they beat france, but how far down hill have they gone !
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“…it's not widely appreciated outside South America just how hard World Cup qualification is in this part of the world.”
Hi Tim – this reminds me of a thought/question I’ve had rattling in the back of my head for while.
Let’s assume that the current FIFA rankings are an accurate reflection of ability. Consequently, Brazil (for example) will play 12 competitive games against top 50-ranked sides during their World Cup qualification. In comparison Germany, for example, will play just two such matches (Russia home and away). Could this be considered an advantage for South America? For example, perhaps this extra competitive experience puts South American teams and players in better stead for the World Cup itself?
Following on from this, do you think that UEFA countries might perhaps benefit by tier-ing their qualification system? Again, Germany plays two 'proper' competitive games in the period 2008-2010, and yet UEFA boats 15 of the top 20 teams (8-out-of-10 best). Imagine the interest in seeing Germany playing 14 games (i.e., league of 8 teams, home and away) all against top-TEN ranked teams in the run-up to the World (or European) Cup? (let’s assume the 8 automatically qualify for which ever tournament the league precedes).
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Ranking wise it might even itself out though with the European Championship - Spain beat a lot of good teams last year, most I'd guess in the top 50 and I they soared up the rankings - to number one I think.
http://www.worldfootballcolumns.com
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worldfootballcolumns: I’m not suggesting the Europe forgoes the European Championship (or World Cup, obviously), just that Europe perhaps wastes a competitive and entertainment advantage outside of the actual European and World Cups.
Since you mention it, take Spain and Euro 2008. Even though Europe has 8/10 and 15/20 of the ‘best’ teams (current FIFA rankings), Spain didn’t play a single competitive game against anyone in the top 20 (again, using current rankings) for almost two years (i.e., the entire Euro 2008 qualification period). The (current) average ranking of Spain’s qualifying group for Euro 2008 was 67! Liechtenstein is ranked one place above the Netherlands Antilles!!
Instead, imagine Spain competitively playing every top European country at least once every non-World Cup qualifying year. Doesn’t that sound a little more entertaining?
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no. 6's comment is even more stupid given that tim is a south american correspondent and portugal, last time i checked, not in south america and nor does c. ron play for a south american club.
gio leaving barca i think may have something to do with the non-eu playa rules. but i could be gravely mistaken
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Tim, I'm sure this is a standard comment to make but your blog is easily my favourite on this site, absolutely superb. The highlight of my monday at work for sure!
I have a couple of questions;
1. I lived in Italy for 4 months before Christmas, and was fortunate enough to have a friend who would take me to Palermo games. My question though is this; How on earth did Kerlon end up at Chievo Verona? I thought he was destined to end up at a big european club? And what's more he didn't even make the bench when they played Palermo. As a player does he offer anything other than the 'drible da foca'?
2. I'm going to be in Rio for most of August, and really want to get to see a game at the Maracana. I'm not really too worried about safety as my girlfriend is half-Brasilian and has lots of family in Rio, but I was wondering when I'd be able to find out what games Flamengo had in August? From looking at the fixtures it looks like they will play Corinthians at home about half-way through the season... Would this fall in August?
Thanks again Tim for your brilliant blog!
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