Famous Australians you've never heard of
The big media news out of Australia at the end of last week was a story with negligible resonance outside of Australia.
Kerry O'Brien, the presenter of ABC's flagship programme The 730 Report, a former press secretary for Gough Whitlam and a long-time early evening fixture in many Australian lounge rooms, announced he would soon vacate his anchor's chair. For British readers, it is something akin to David Dimbleby finally hanging up his lapel mike, or, for Americans, Charlie Rose exiting his dim-lit studio on PBS.
But it got me thinking about other big-name Australians who have not made much of a global splash - often, it has to be said, because their homeland has been able to happily accommodate their ambition. Here's a quick, and by no means exhaustive, list:
1. Andrew Denton: it is tempting to describe the bespectacled chat show host as Australia's Parkinson, but, much as I love Parky, he's arguably a lot funnier and a great deal more probing. Watching his old show, Enough Rope, was a bit like attending a good funeral - a blend of raucous laughter, good anecdotes, personal reflections and occasional tears.
2. Peter Sculthorpe: Australia's Edward Elgar or Ralph Vaughan Williams, a composer whose music perfectly conjures up the Aussie landscape. Kakadu and Earth Cry are classics. He also did an orchestral arrangement that even made Advance Australia Fair sound good.
3. Ben Mendelsohn: a fabulous Australian character actor who appears to pop up in virtually every Aussie movie. Very strong in Beautiful Kate and Animal Kingdom, and in Hollywood he could surely have been a contender.
4. John Bell: a brilliant Shakespearian actor, who founded the Bell Shakespeare Company 20 years ago. A contemporary of Germaine Greer and Clive James at Sydney University in the 1960s, who, like them, was drawn centrifugally to London, but, unlike them, chose not to stay.
5. David Malouf: has the novelist got the global recognition he deserves? Probably not, although his 1993 novel, Remembering Babylon was short-listed for the Booker.
6. Margaret Fulton: long before Masterchef came along, and long before Matt Preston learnt how to tie a cravat, Australia's first food guru was changing the country's rissole-centric food culture.
7. Norman Gunston: the comic creation of the actor Garry McDonald, Gunston was way ahead of his time. A kind of Aussie Ali G in the 70s.
8. Chris Judd: the Aussie Rules football star, who claimed this year's Brownlow medal, is representative of hundreds of Australian rugby league and AFL stars who would be global names if their sports were truly global.
What a grand final, by the way. I can't remember watching the mood in a stadium change so immediately, from the frenzy in the stands at the MCG in those final riveting minutes to the anti-climactic near silence when everyone realised they would all have to come back on Saturday to do it again. Couldn't they have decided it on Saturday with overtime, a shoot-out or a competition on which team has the best tattoos?
Like I say, the list is by no means exhaustive. And, arguably, it invites another one: "Australians who have made it abroad but who should really have stayed at home"...
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~21~RS~)
I'm 
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"Couldn't they have decided it on Saturday with overtime, a shoot-out or a competition on which team has the best tattoos?"
The GF was a complete farce, making the whole sport look amateurish.
I've since learned that the preliminary finals do actually have an overtime rule, it's just the grand final that doesn't. but so sorry to all the thousands who travelled from overseas and interstate to watch a final that wasn't. Andrew Demetriou does like making money.
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Good blog Nick and Kerry O'Brien will be missed...a brilliant probing TV journalist.
However I take issue with your Point 2 on Peter Sculthorpe.
Sure the man is an excellent composer, but why trash the Australian National Anthem?
John Laws produced a version of "Advance Australia Fair" in the early '70s to a more martial beat.
If you know the British and Australian Armies' drum beat in the march "Redcoat, Redcoat, Johnny, Johhny Redcoat" you can hear the cadence.
First and foremost, a National Anthem is a rallying point for national aspirations.
And please note, while the British National Anthem calls on the Creator to "save the King/Queen", Australia's National Anthem appeals to ALL Australians.
Perhaps it is the British National Anthem which begs the question "What of the aspirations of the British people rather than one individual"?
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#1 Michael,
a) how can you profess to know that "The GF [which no-one calls it, by the way] was a complete farce, making the whole sport look amateurish" if you have only just (since Saturday is 'only just', I think) learnt that "preliminary finals do actually have an overtime rule"? Do you actually follow the footy or have you casually tuned in for the "GF" so that in the event of a draw you can theatrically protest the replay rule? For your information, yes: the preliminary finals have an overtime rule, as it is hardly practical to in preliminary, elimination and semi- finals to have a replay the following week, as there are other games to be played. By contrast, for the "GF" there are no games to be played the following week, so in the HIGHLY unlikely event of a draw - this weekend's result being only the THIRD draw in the history of the entire VFL/AFL competition, that is over one hundred and fifty years - a replay is much more feasible.
b) "Andrew Demetriou does like making money." Actually, the AFL is a not-for-profit organisation; I am not saying that the AFL does not stand to make a profit but it is blatantly ridiculous to bleat the money-making excuse as a reason for overtime in future "GF[s]"; this implies that the AFL somehow magically orchestrated a draw as an excuse to make more money. Why not make it a draw every year, if so?
c) Lest you suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about, I am an unapologetically passionate Geelong Football Club supporter, and have been my whole life - and I believe the replay rule should remain. It's the AFL - we're allowed to do things a little differently, you know.
And by the way - the "14" in my username stands for Joel Selwood, only one of the most brilliant and courageous players of our time. I did say I was passionate...
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2 Greg Warner wrote: "Good blog Nick and Kerry O'Brien will be missed...a brilliant probing TV journalist.
However I take issue with your Point 2 on Peter Sculthorpe."
Yeah, my sentiments exactly Greg.
I think Kerry is going to be hard to replace. There is talk of Tony Jones, even Chris Ulman replacing him, both good at interviewing, but still they are not Kerry. He will be missed.
As to Peter Sculthorpe, I'm sure we have a list of better composers than he. I know he is liked in the avant garde world, but he is not generally considered 'up there' amongst the popular listing.
I haven't heard John Laws' rendition, but it would be well worth a listen.
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I've really enjoyed watching films with David Wenham whose main foray on to the international screen has been as Faramir in The Two Towers.
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5. Euloroo - Agreed. David Wenham is brilliant and so versatile. To see him play John Spiteri in the highly underrated film 'Gettin Square' and then turn around and take a role in '300'... he is a great actor. And also did a great interview on Enough Rope with Andrew Denton.
Also, while referencing Andrew Denton, we shouldn't leave out the fact that he is the brains behind both The Chaser and The Gruen Transfer. Both great shows.
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Bravo on your championing of Malouf, Bell and Denton, Nick!
And a tempting opportunity to state the cases of
Kenneth Slessor - the modernist poet. His elegant meditation on time and death in the form of "Five Bells" covered territory eerily similar to that of TS Eliot's "Four Quartets", a few years before that work was published. Sometimes said the best thing ever written about Sydney in any form by anyone.
Gwen Harwood - she should be a much bigger name in the world of letters. She is completely unknown outside Australia. Suggest reading "At Mornington".
Shaun Micallef - now wasting his talent on a mind-numbing quiz show. During 1998-2001 produced brilliant sketch comedy (The Micallef Program) which was, alas, largely ignored within and without Australia.
I won't list anymore - suffice to say there are great penalities for artists born in a periphery.
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Great topic. An equivalent list could also be compiled for Canadians. I was pleased that you left off geriatric windbags like John Laws and Bert Newton. I particularly like Andrew Denton. If Maxine McKew had not become a supporter of the odious Kevin Rudd and stayed as Kerry O’Brien’s alternate, she would have deserved a spot. Michael Caton deserves a listing. ‘The Castle’ was a comedy classic.
I’m not too familiar with the remainder but if Peter Sculthorpe ‘did an orchestral arrangement that even made Advance Australia Fair sound good’ then he surely belongs on the list. A born-and-bred Aussie once told me that it sounded like something that was composed and written by a committee. I couldn’t agree more. As soon as I read your comment, I guessed immediately that Greg Warner and 11pete11 would be there with sniffy ripostes and right on cue………..! Comparing it with that awful dirge ‘God Save the Queen’ doesn’t make it any better.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Not sure why my previous comment was removed, I only suggested that if Russell Crowe were never to appear in any form of media again he wouldn't be missed.
I also mentioned my appreciation of a great Aussie: Tim Minchin.
Have the moderators got it in for me?
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Not a bad list at all; especially Malouf and Bell. I would add Paul Kelly (the singer), his music has an emotional power that i don't think has been bettered by any singer/songwriter since Dylan, i still get a bit weepy when i listen to To Her Door.
Including an AFL player immediately puts off the half of the country who have no interest in the game; but we northerners are a forgiving bunch.
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How about "Aussies" who've made it but aren't Aussies?
Phar Lap, Mel Gibson, Nicole Kidman, Sam Neil... ahem.. Andrew Symonds
Or Aussies Who Weren't Good Enough For The Aussie Team But Played For England? Holioake brothers, I'm looking at you.
Or Aussies Who Are Known Overseas but Unknown on Their Local Streets..? I doubt most people would recognise Andrew Bogut at first glance, and Phil Anderson could walk into most cycle shops and be unrecognised even by the staff. Joe Hachem walks thru crown casino unmolested.. (except by a certain blog commenter - got a photo with him. Nice guy).
Luc Longley won 3 NBA championships in a row as starting centre for the Chicago Bulls featuring Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen and Denis Rodman - can anyone describe him without looking at a photo? "Big.. ahhh.. really big.."
Jonathan Coleman is popular in UK, but less so in Oz.
And seriously, we've had a 3-in-150yr event being a drawn grand final, and everyone is whining that "something must be done!" - well yeah. Something is being done. The game is being replayed cos THATS HOW ITS DONE. And Joel Selwood above (_14) is right - its not a GF, it's 'The Granny'... hey maybe we can re-do the Brownlow count and His Juddness can be the first player ever to win 2 in the same year. Go Juddy!!!
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_14 - I can say it makes it look amateurish because it did. I'm impressed by your knowledge of the sport, but it still doens't cnahge anything. At the end of the match there were 100,000 people milling around wondering what the hell happens next. No professional, modern sport should allow something like this to happen.
And let's add to that they allowed hundred of people to camp out over night (some from the end of the GF - obviously you know what I'm referring to, so I'll keep using the acronym) not letting them know they cna't actually buy tickets for the next game.
If I were a serious fan of the sport I would be furious at how the powers that be allowed events to unfold.
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Camo - not sure if you are aware, but one of the Hollioake brothers tragically died a number of years ago in Perth.
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#13 Michael,
"I'm impressed by your knowledge of the sport". Thanks muchly. I do follow football quite religiously, but I know a lot of people who know much more than me about it.
I cannot imagine, however, that of all of the 100,016 people who attended the Grand Final, not one of them knew what would occur in the event of a draw. If you're serious about the game, you know that a draw might - and I mean MIGHT - occur when you're going, somewhat deliriously, into the Grand Final. Having been lucky enough to attend both the 2007 and 2009 grand finals, the thought certainly crosses one's mind. Thankfully 2007 was not at all close - I don't know whether I could have taken it - but particularly with last year's GF (I'll humour you) being so close, a draw was an ever-present possibility and the thought of a replay did not exactly thrill me. Tickets are, as we all know, enormously expensive, and I don't think I could have gone to a replay. Happily, it wasn't a draw last year, but I still don't think replays should be done away with.
And also, the AFL doesn't have any control over whether people decide to camp out to get tickets when a) they have said that tickets will only be available over the internet or by telephone, and b) if the balloting of grand finals is conducted in this way every year, it stands to reason that the ticketing of a grand final replay would be conducted similarly. Plus, I personally wouldn't be camping out anywhere, particularly in the kind of weather we've been having, unless I'd checked that I would actually be able to purchase tickets as a result of said camping out. I understand that people are passionate, but passion should not, and generally does not, preclude common sense, in football at least.
So, as a serious fan of the sport, Michael, I cannot say that I am at all furious at how events unfolded, other than Geelong not being in the Grand Final, and that was entirely our own fault for playing so abysmally - but I certainly look very forward to the replay this Saturday.
#7 Satoru,
"Gwen Harwood - she should be a much bigger name in the world of letters. She is completely unknown outside Australia. Suggest reading "At Mornington"."
I am flicking to my 'Gwen Harwood: Collected Poems' as I type. Sadly, I must confess to not knowing her prior to this year; we're studying her at school in English Literature. She has, however, become a firm favourite within the class, and with good reason; although she did not appeal to me immediately, as I am more of pre-WWI and WWI poetry person, she is certainly growing on me. Her breadth of knowledge of a myriad of subjects is enormously impressive, and her life was equally so. And I love Shaun Micallef - but I wouldn't exactly say he was 'wasted' on Your Gen.
#8, Peter D,
"Great topic" - I concur wholeheartedly. Great topic, Nick.
#11, seajay23,
I agree completely with Paul Kelly, one of my favourite singer-songwriters. His ability to tell a story through his lyrics is consistently amazing, and if the genius of his lyrics are not sufficiently self-evident, they can be studied at a Year 12 - sort of the Australian equivalent of a GCSE - level in English (although so can Tim Winton, so is that saying much? Probably not). And he is absolutely wonderful live - his was best concert I've ever been to!
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Yeah dude - but how does that change the fact they didn't play for Australia and did play for England, and are the most famous recent examples of this?
To show no ill-feeling.. firstly I'll correct my spelling (double-L in Hollioake) and agree that Ben's death was tragic and also offer Adam being very unlucky to have grown up in the era of Waugh, Waugh, Ponting, Martyn, Slater, Hayden, Gilchrist etc - sort of like Brad Hodge and Darren Berry.
But they're still Australian-born players who didn't break the Aussie national team, and both played for England at test level.
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Hi Camo.
I just wanted to let you know in case you weren't aware. I can't believe it's 8 years ago!
Although not as well known as the Hollioakes, in recent times England picked Darren Pattinson and Tim Ambrose.
I think England prefer picking South African's these days though! :-)
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William McInnes and John Howard are two more quintessential aussie actors that - like David Wenham - appeared in ABC's SeaChange. I'm really surprised that SeaChange wasn't bought by any british networks (as far as I'm aware). I think it'd be hugely popular there.
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Michael's comment that the AFL Grand Final was "a complete farce" is utter nonsense and probably reflects he is a fan of other football codes and resentful of the indigenous code's dominance in Australia.
The Grand Final was a tough and exciting encounter, the let down at the end was because it was so exciting and then suddenly a draw. However now, mid week, the excitement is building for the rematch and tickets so far released have sold out immediately.
Slowly Australian Football is becoming a "global game" though will take decades yet - but groundwork is there - see www.worldfootynews.com
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Too right about Chris Judd. That man is an absolute legend of an athlete and a supremely gifted Australian Football player. I've seen him play several times and it's fair to say that every time he has got hold of the ball, something happens (and that isn't easy on a pitch 3 times the size of a European one). If his Brownlow speech is anything to go by, it is mostly done with humility.
It's one of the great injustices that he (and guys like him) will never get the accolades they deserve overseas whilst overpaid 'average' football players are put on pedestals for all to worship.
As for the Grand Final being anything other than one of the great sporting spectacles any of us have ever seen... you were obviously watching a very different game to me. I can understand the AFL-hating, Rugby League mob pitifully searching for any excuse to bag the 'other code', but not a casual observer. We'll be talking about that game for years to come.
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A fun blog this. Of course the list could be much longer. I don't think there's much point comparing Parkinson with Andrew Denton. Denton could think rings around the old turtle-resembling celeb flatterer. Denton is more like a Ben Elton who went on from ground-breaking comedy to do terrific chat shows and discover the Chaser guys, instead of writing formulaic novels and awful musicals.
I'd be interested to hear who is in your 'should have stayed home' list. Air Supply? Myself I have a list of Australians to whom overseas is welcome. You can keep Clive James. Please.
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How about Barry Humphries? An archetypal Aussie if ever I've seen one...
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Dan, in what way does barry humphries qualify as a famous australian you've never heard of? or do you mean that people know him/her as his personna?
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#8 PeterD wrote:
"I guessed immediately that Greg Warner and 11pete11 would be there with sniffy ripostes and right on cue..."
Well congratulations Peter for using your intellect and lightning fast mind to "guess immediately"...well done.
However, "sniffy ripostes"?...that's a bit unfair.
After all, Advance Australia Fair is MY National Anthem, not yours, and not Nick's.
"Sniffy ripostes" is not something I do, in anything.
I make my point loud and clear, and I stand up for those Australian institutions and concepts which I hold very close to my heart.
You have a habit of demeaning people...in a recent post you questioned if I "had 17 friends", after a very fair comment posted by 11pete11.
It is nasty Peter..."sniffy ripostes"...describing what some people post as "nonsense"...suggesting some posters have "mental problems"...or are "smoking something"..."lack of friends" etc as you have posted in the past.
Or is all this your concept of "wit"?
I was hoping you might update us on your impressions of Australia after your recent holiday, and your soon-to-be grandchild...the babe is due about now isn't he/she?
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10. At 6:02pm on 27 Sep 2010, stirling222 wrote:
"Not sure why my previous comment was removed, I only suggested that if Russell Crowe were never to appear in any form of media again he wouldn't be missed."
He's a Kiwi anyway.
"I also mentioned my appreciation of a great Aussie: Tim Minchin."
Agreed, agreed, agreed! Though he has 'made it' overseas and, in fact, I'd argue that he had his talent properly recognised in the UK before he became well-known in Australia. He was winning big comedy awards in the UK before he was big in Australia, and I learned of him in Dublin, Ireland, having not really heard much about him back home. He is brilliant in that he is multi-faceted. He's part comedian, part activist, part sentimentalist. His is the only comedy show I've ever been to that has not only made me laugh, but made me really think, and also made me well up with tears over 'White Wine in the Sun'.
21. At 09:22am on 28 Sep 2010, Floyd wrote:
"Myself I have a list of Australians to whom overseas is welcome. You can keep Clive James. Please."
I have a similar list - having lived in Ireland & the UK the last few years, it has stunned me how some Aussie one-hit-wonders have seemed to forge out a career over here. Dannii Minogue, for example, who has come back to some kind of public prominence in Australia in recent times, but only due to her popularity in the British media, as a judge on The X Factor. Peter Andre is an obvious nominee... I remember being shocked even back in 1997 to see him doing a spot at the Pride March in London, let alone his resurgence following his appearance on 'I'm a Celebrity, Get Me Out of Here'. He now has a new music career over here, writes a page for one of the tabloid magazines, and has successive reality TV shows. The mind boggles. And of course, Jason Donovan. He was on BBC's 'The One Show' last night. I'm pretty sure most Australians don't even know he's still about.
There seems to be a soft spot in the UK for Aussies considered well past their prime back home. It's a little bizarre.
I'd also nominate Germaine Greer. With all the negativity she spouts about her homeland, I think it's best that she stays in Britain for good.
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24 Greg Warner
Jeez Greg that was a real sniffy. A full nose blow no less.
The OZ vacation went very well as always. I had a good visit to Melbourne which is very well organized for visitors and has some excellent museums. The Old Gaol and Immigrant museum were particularly interesting as was the tour of the MCG. Although I spent all of my working life in the aviation sector, I’m a big fan of train travel so I enjoyed the Countrylink return journey from Sydney. Lots of time for some interesting chats with folk of my vintage.
Sorry to hear Kerry O’Brien is pulling the plug. Watching him live was always an enjoyable aspect of my visits.
The first Aussie grandchild is due in early February and the future mum is holding up well. Thank you for asking.
Take care mate and keep that box of tissues handy.
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# 25 melissakp,
I agree with your opinion of Germaine Greer and the way she rubbishes 1960s Oz,however that's probably the secret of her 'success' in the UK. Based on some of her 'critques' of Australian society that I've read, the reality that it's 2010 here, doesn't seemed to have occurred to her.
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Judd, sillyball player, mummys boy!
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Another name that every Aussie would know but few outside the country would is Derryn Hinch...and the Aussies and Kiwis share the great John Clarke.
But every country has such a list. Here in NZ we even have a phrase for it - "World famous in New Zealand" - which applies to the likes of Bob Jones, Ian Mune, Tab Baldwin, Dave Dobbyn, Bruno Lawrence, Paul Holmes, Billy T James, Marc Ellis, Margaret Mahy, and Dougal Stevenson.
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#25 & #27
Germaine Greer has aimed her words far and wide with Australian society being one of many targets. Like all powerful polemicists, she can be particularly annoying at times, such as when she’s banging on about her love life or lack thereof. However, at her best she can be brilliant such as her during her debates with the very eloquent conservative William F. Buckley Jr. (now-deceased). Her Keynote address to the Melbourne Writers’ Conference on the subject of ‘Rage’ shows Greer at her best.
http://www.themonthly.com.au/germaine-greers-keynote-address-rage-melbourne-writers-festival-1205
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It's not often judges get a mention in lists like this, but I would nominate Justice Michael Kirby.
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Nick, I've got to take issue with Denton - while the Chaser was excellent, seeing the man interview celebs and then talk about them in their absence was cringe inducing. As were the trailers for his final ABC series in which he appeared to think he was the best thing since sliced bread and that the great and good were indeed blessed to be speaking with him.
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Great topic Nick.
I thought Malouf won a prize for Imaginary Life, something about it being one of the most important books of the 20th century. My memory is vague and wikipedia provided no clues.
anyone else here recall such an honour?
Either way, this blog sent me back to my library to find Malouf, reconnect with Clive James (our best cultural export) via his "cultural amnesia" book, and refresh my love affair with Sculthorpe.
My Stay At Home nominee is Kevin Rudd. Closely followed by Steve Irwin and his daughter. Yes, my national cringe is nurtured and alive!
Love,
The Moz (posing as an Australian).
(Imagine if Morrissey was Australian? How unusual)
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melissakp @ 25 wrote:
"There seems to be a soft spot in the UK for Aussies considered well past their prime back home. It's a little bizarre".
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In fact, there is a soft spot in the UK for most Aussies, and I for one don't regard it as at all bizarre. I was amazed to be was asked by an Aussie when I was Down Under a few years ago for the last ashes series if he would be safe as an Aussie if he visited England for a holiday as he was planning. At first I thought he was pulling my leg, but he was serious; he thought that there was genuine hostility towards Aussies there! I hope I managed to reassure him.
For the record, despite the impression sometimes given on blogs like this, I have never found anything but warmth from Aussies on my several visits there. (Sporting arenas apart of course).
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I'm a bit late coming to this but some comments
1. the AFL replays Grand Finals because that's the way we've always done these things here.. I'm told that once upon a time replays were once used in that soccerball game that all those foreign poor people play but they stopped doing so because so many games were still draws even after overtime so they invented the shootout..their game... our game
2.they do have extratime in earlier finals because to not do so may well seriously effect other (3rd ) teams eg by giving them an unwanted week (or weeks ) off
3.I don't think many people see the Australianess of AFL as a negative What would be the advantage if our major sport was a foreign game....most people everywhere are very local in their enthusiasms.International sport is the exception not the everyday. This, by the way , is the opposite of cultural cringe (Curiously by comparison I get the impression that Brit lefties seem to see the "parochialism " of Gaelic sports as a positive )
4. re Kerry O'Brien.. I remember a time when ABC current affairs was always known as being disliked by the government of the day .. eg Hawke and Keating were always complaining about ABC bias against their Government . Well the ALP has been in Govt now for three years and we now seem to hear only of( Red ) Kerry's anti Opposition bias....go figure
Kessa's interviews are ( also ) known for having Kessa often doing most of the talking (some unkind people watch his performances with a stopwatch )Still hang around long enough and you become an icon ( or part of the furniture
5. One thing about some of the expats who are well known..they're big haters ..think John Pilger Geoffrey Robinson Peter Tatchell and of course Germaine.. interesting that they are so at home in the UK which nowadays of course is so last millenium....Australians today who are looking for a bigger stage go straight to the US which ,like us, emphasises optimism and accepts people for what they are
6. my favourite Malouf book is " Johnno"
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34. PickledPete wrote:
"In fact, there is a soft spot in the UK for most Aussies, and I for one don't regard it as at all bizarre. I was amazed to be was asked by an Aussie when I was Down Under a few years ago for the last ashes series if he would be safe as an Aussie if he visited England for a holiday as he was planning. At first I thought he was pulling my leg, but he was serious; he thought that there was genuine hostility towards Aussies there! I hope I managed to reassure him."
That does surprise me. I don't find it bizarre that Australians would be made welcome in the UK - I certainly haven't had a bad experience anywhere I've been, everyone has been on the scale of just normal right up to very warm towards me.
I just find it strange that some of the kinds of Australian deemed unworth of any real celebrity in Australia can be much bigger names in the UK. You would think it would be a tougher market to crack!
"For the record, despite the impression sometimes given on blogs like this, I have never found anything but warmth from Aussies on my several visits there. (Sporting arenas apart of course)."
Agreed on the sporting arena but that works both ways. I don't think Aussies generally have a problem with the English. Perhaps there is a bit of 'oh here we go' when you see a group of very drunk English lads out on the town, but I'd wager that would be the same in some parts of London where there are walkabout bars and the kind of loud, drunk, young Australians. I've never lived in London because (a) every time I go there, all I hear is Aussie/Kiwi/South African accents, and I travel the world to experience new things, not live in an area full of the same people I could see at home and (b) London does seem to attract a lot of that loud, arrogant type of young Australian traveller, and I don't like to be associated with them. When I lived in Dublin, I worked with other Australians and socialised with them sometimes, but I was in Dublin to experience Dublin and the Irish, and that's mostly what I did. Here in Belfast I've not yet met any fellow Australians, so although it might be nice to have an Aussie friend or two, I've not had the opportunity!
I think Australians are lucky to still have a reasonably good reputation amongst the British and Irish and I just hope that the bad tourists don't ruin that. I'm sure that works both ways though.
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@ 55. bigotboy
"5. One thing about some of the expats who are well known..they're big haters ..think John Pilger Geoffrey Robinson Peter Tatchell and of course Germaine.. interesting that they are so at home in the UK which nowadays of course is so last millenium....Australians today who are looking for a bigger stage go straight to the US which ,like us, emphasises optimism and accepts people for what they are"
As a generalisation I think that - famous or not - left-leaning aussies are pulled towards england and right-leaning englishmen are pulled towards australia. interesting thing is that as a right-leaning englishman in oz, i actually find myself leaning leftwards here!
Your view that Australia and the US "accept people for who they are" is naive at best, but is typified by several regular posters on this blog. Where do you get this idea from? Both Countries have large numbers of ethnic communities which makes it easier for others from those communities to migrate. But my experience is that they are "accepted" only when they keep themselves to themselves. And of course this perpetuates the divisions.
Of course aussies actors actually go to the US for the simple reason that the industry there is the largest. The same goes for british actors like hugh grant, who incidentally shares my view that US TV output is collectively very poor.
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37 Euloroo
perhaps we would both agree that the UK political spectrum is much wider than Australia ..both the Aust left and the Aust right would seem very centrist to many Brits ...and positions that seem off the radar in Aust seem real issues there ... people of the left there seriously argue for the prohibition of private banking, education and health for instance (not to mention foxhunting )
comparisons of the Australian attitude towards the UK and the US will always bring different opinions...for what it's worth I'd say the traffic is all one way ..the younger you are the more you feel in common with the US. I"m sure many of us know the most Anglophile people who have gone "home " in recent times who comment (wistfully ) that Britain seems quite a foreign country these days .I would also bet good money that it is more common for visiting Austraians to have more unhappy experiences with the locals in the UK than in the US . I note that even that Queen's man John Howard appears to spend much of his retirement in the US being duchessed by American Conservative Think Tanks these days
TV choices are again a matter of opinion...when I was young I may have voted for the Brits but over the last decade or two I note that most of my must see shows ...from Seinfeld The Simpsons The Sopranos to Mad Men are from youknowwhere ..but then maybe , as you so sagaciously put it ,my views are naive
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@ Bigotboy and Euloroo
"TV choices are again a matter of opinion...when I was young I may have voted for the Brits but over the last decade or two I note that most of my must see shows ...from Seinfeld The Simpsons The Sopranos to Mad Men are from youknowwhere ..but then maybe , as you so sagaciously put it ,my views are naive."
Amen to that, Bigotboy. I think I'm in a minority here I've never understood the Brits' own sense of superiority when it comes their television vs US produce. More to the point I'm not sure why one would be echoing anything Hugh Grant has to say about quality entertainment.
I suspect I'm a bit younger than many on this blog but I stopped laughing at dead parrots, silly walks and repeated use of the phrase "cunning plan" many years ago. Of course some will argue the fact I don't find the overuse of irony and sarcasm side-splittingly hilarious or recognize it as a sign of intellectual and cultural brilliance probably means I'm quite retarded. I'd just put that down to personal taste.
In that spirit I'd say give me the genius of Matt Groening and Cohen brothers over Matt Lucas or Stephen Fry any day. And on the drama front, West Wing, The Wire and Mad Men outclass anything the UK has coughed up in the past decade.
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#37, #38, #39
I think the changes in Australia were generational and more than about humour, essentially a big shift in perspective starting in the 1960s.
Hollywood and TV probably played a role in introducing US humour but at a deeper level the 1960s produced a more self assertive Australia which was receptive to other cultures, indigenous, US, but also Asia. Asia was no longer the region Australians flew over on the way to Europe, but a destination in itself.
I think this is also where those long term expats of the early 1960s - Pilger, Greer, Clive James, et al become unstuck.
The Australian author Richard Flanagan, once described them..'cultural quislings, who fled Australia's shores....to find their muse in England...and ever after berated an Australia they no longer recognised'. Flanagan himself, (born 1961) had taken a similar route in the 1980s - to Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar, - but with a much more critical post imperial eye and returned to Tasmania.
I second Malouf's Johnno
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@ 38 bigotboy
granted, the ALP (like the US democrats) is fairly centrist by international comparisions but the liberals are definately not.
my experience of australia is limited to sydney where i'd concur that many things are closer to north american in style, rather than european or asian. a case in point (one of my hobby horses) is the redevelopment of barangaroo. this site and kings cross central in london are two of the largest CBD developments in the world but the approaches to developing them are truely poles apart. http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/bring-on-drama-and-boldness-20101001-160zm.html
in terms of tv and film, i'd love to see australian governments investing in more home grown material. and if it's truly aussie i think you'll find a big export market in britain (look at home and away and neighbours!) but not in the us.
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I'm not sure that the description 'famous' fits, or that Australia recognizes them, but to me, the late Charles Perkins, aboriginal activist and leader of the 'freedom ride' (Martin Luther king is probably known by more Australians than their own countryman,) Kirsty Sword Gusmao, lst lady of Timor Leste and champion of women's rights,
the late Edna Walling, garden designer extraordinaire, Roycroft family,
early Olympic winners in 3 day eventing (not a sport here with a big following), Michael Leunig, (the man is a gem), Reg Mombassa (well, he's really a Kiwi),past band member of 'Mental as Anything", his artworks on Mambo T Shirts, etc. etc. Writers like Richard Flannigan 'Wanting',
Brian Castro (the French love his books), yes, we have a few!!!!!
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