Socceroos - a sub-prime investment?
Well at least the Socceroos' keeper does not have "hands of clod". But there is nothing else to take from their opening game of the World Cup against Germany. For the Australians, it was calamitous: A 4-0 defeat. A red card for their best player, Tim Cahill, while their main man of old, Harry Kewell, did not even make it onto the pitch for the pre-match warm-up.
While Australia looked tactically incoherent, Germany were worryingly classy - the efficiency is a given - world football's most tried-and-tested cliché - but they even had oodles of youthful flair. Out-played, out-thought and even out-battled, the Socceroos were pretty ordinary, as their compatriots would put it, and made the Germans look especially good. It was the most one-sided game of the tournament so far.
Perhaps it might have been different if Cahill or Richard Garcia had scored in the opening minutes - possibly, Garcia, the Hull City striker, was surprised to find himself in the starting line-up. Perhaps the score-line would not have been so lop-sided had the Mexican referee not shown the same appetite for meting out punishment as an Australian traffic warden. But just as terrible goalkeeping lapses, along with missed penalties, have become elemental in the World Cup experience for every England fan, harsh or erroneous refereeing decisions are becoming part and parcel of watching Australia. They were notoriously unlucky on that front in 2006 during their second round clash against Italy, when Fabio Grosso was awarded the dodgiest of penalties in stoppage time while the score was still 0-0. But by the time Cahill was ejected, the game was lost already, and it is hard to see this Australian team coming anywhere near the 2006 team, which generated a wave of excitement across the country.
The suspicion ahead of the tournament was that the Socceroos were past it, and they looked like ageing astronauts asked to go on one last moon shot. Why, Kewell could not even make it to the launch-pad. As Michael Cockerill of the Sydney Morning Herald put it: "The Socceroos, or at least those players we have come to identify as our national team, have passed their use-by date. On the evidence of this excruciating football lesson handed out by Germany, there's no doubt they have." After the success of 2006, the Australian sporting press has come to expect better. Cockerill, who is probably Australia's most influential soccer writer, called it a "complete, utter disaster."
Even before the opening game, Australian football had taken a big hit. Deprived of the backing of the Asian football federation, it had to withdraw its bid for hosting the 2018 and will concentrate instead on 2022. A lacklustre World Cup campaign in South Africa will do nothing to help what was always looking like an implausible cause. Australian fans will be hoping that the tactics of Frank Lowy, the shopping centre magnate who runs Aussie football, will be superior to those of Pim Verbeek, the team's Dutch coach.
According to the expert panel on SBS - the Australian channel which has the rights to the tournament - one "positive" to take out of the game was that the Socceroos remain in the tournament. But it is hard to conjure up a more fragile straw, or to clutch it more feebly. My pre-tournament bet was that the Socceroos would score just two goals in South Africa. That may end up looking generous.
No doubt there will be a lot of corporate advertisers in Australia this morning feeling they have made a sub-prime investment. After all, Tim Cahill has become the poster-boy of Aussie football, and is the star of many of the World Cup-related marketing campaigns. Qantas, the national carrier, has a painted one of its aircraft with a special Socceroos livery. Alas, it may well be bringing the team home much earlier than hoped, but not earlier than expected. There's a realistic streak in the Australian sporting public, and they know that the Socceroos are a team that can occasionally contain the best in the world, but rarely beat them.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~37~RS~)
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Here we go again. Other than a media beat up, there is no real soccer interest in Australia, other than with the ex Europeans with Aussie citizenship and a piece of paper to prove it.
Why do British writer insist on trying to put Aussie soccer up there with League, Union, Aussie Rules or any other sport that we embrace whole heartedly.
I was at the pub last night and NOT ONE person talked about the soccer...it is not an Australian game, popularity wise, just a good old fashion media beat up.
Nick if you are going to insist on writing about 'other countries populist interests' why not write about the BP oil disaster in the Mexican Gulf, the effect it is having on world oil prices, and how Australia is viewing it.
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11pete11, at least there is one thing we can agree on. The only time you even hear about soccer is around the world cup. I have recently returned to Australia for a holiday and it's nice that the sport news isn't 20 minutes of soccer and 1 minute o everything else as it is in the UK.
The issue is that Australia is the only country in the world that have 4 fully professional football codes being AFL, Rugby league, Rugby Union and then soccer, with the level of resources and interest probably in that order. So with that in mind, we do OK to throw a few guys together and make the world cup.
I don't think I could ever support a game where the objective is to look like you have just been injured every time the oposing player gets within 3 feet of where you stand. And what's with the players having a go at the ref? You wouldn't get away with that sort of rubbish in rugby. This sort of over the top ostentatious behaviour really turns me off soccer.
Can someone also shed some light on why the Australian team had hand on heart during the national anthem? It's just not something we do.
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As for a sub-prime investment, I don't think the socceroos are a suyb-prime investment, I think soccer in general in Australia is a sub-prime investment. Just look at the A-league, what a joke
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You are commenting on Nick's article so surely it was of some interest to you? I'm Aussie and my friends and I all love the world cup, we just dont have as a good a team or the element of surprise as we did in 06. The Germans are class and will make the semi's at least but I was surprised we were so comprehensively outplayed. Hopefully we can show a bit of fight in the last two games and Ghana/Serbia didnt look all that good either.
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Nick, do you mean the 2006 Italy-Australia 2nd round game? My brain had a minor fail trying to remember Australia reaching the quarter-finals. I'm not a big football fan but it would've stood out.
As for the match, I know it sounds harsh but for a country that bangs on about how amazing it is at sport (cricket, rugby, tennis, swimming, yada yada) and often even defines its own character through sport, it's nice to see Ozzies lose and lost for words once in a while.
(And I know Australia doesn't care about football much, but this isn't baseball or tiddlywinks or badminton, this is a big global sport.)
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Could it be as simple as the Aussie team is a bit long in the tooth and the Germans are err, Germans and are usually pretty handy at football?
If I were an Aussie, I wouldn't be too hard on the team going down spectacularly to the Germans, the Germans have a good chance of winning the comp this time around.....now drawing with the US, that's hands-to-face stuff.
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30,000 fans at the stadium and massive turn over at Darling harbour in Sydney signal that soccer is gaining momentum here in Australia.True it may not be as popular as the other football codes nevertheless more and more young Aussies want to see their team compete in the most popular global sport.By the way if you followed the TAB betting the amount wagered was twice that of Origin matches.Speaks for itself doesn't it?
Cricket and Rugby world cups never manage to generate such global enthusiasm.Australia being a sporting nation definitely wants an identity for itself this sport.To suggest that it didn't matter and nobody was really following it is false.Aussies love their sport and always support the green and gold colours in every sport. Of course no one expected miracles and everyone knew that Germany is a strong team.Though the crushing defeat and the manner in which Tim Cahill was sent off has left many disappointed.
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No real soccer interest in Australia? It might not be the most popular spectator sport in Australia but then neither are swimming and rowing until someone takes Olympic gold. Rest assured, there'd be ticker tape parades down the main street of every state capital were the Socceroos to come home with the World Cup. Aussies love international attention, and AFL/rugby don't get much (if any) of it. Cricket is wildly popular... in the countries where it is wildly popular. Soccer offers really the only chance at world glory.
At the same time, I'm also glad we can watch our national team go down 4-0 and say "ooh, that hurt" without it becoming the national crisis it would in most of Europe or South America. That's some comfort, I suppose.
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Whilst the Football World Cup is on can everyone refer to said game as "football" and not "soccer"?
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After Grella and Cahill both made dreadful clumsy challenges on Leo Bertos in their recent friendly against New Zealand the coach made it abundantly clear - to both the team and the media - that any similar challenges in South Africa were likely to lead to Australia being reduced to ten men by the referees. Cahill obviously thought he knew better - and clearly didn't.
Having said that, Australia are not a bad side - it is simply that Germany were at their clinical best. Stronger teams than the Socceroos would have been taken apart just as ruthlessly. Australia probably have the goods to beat Serbia (which should be an interesting match given the ancestry of several of the Aussie players), so a good result against Ghana would likely still see then through to the next round,
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To start off I think it is worth a mention that it is probably not overly presumptuous to say soccer/"the world game" is capable of causing a stir on par with global political issues. Why it seems like only yesterday citizens of Kremlin set their streets alight when Japan managed the upset win 1-0 against Russia.
As for sub-prime investment I would beg to differ because as mentioned highlighted by djavous and jon, soccer has the capacity to link nations together whereas Australian rules and to a lesser extent rugby are a lot more insular. With participation and investment in sport all it takes is the prospect of international success to attract commonwealth funding (hopefully not too much. After all there are things such as education and healthcare which require funding as well).
I think one trait that is missing from the A-League as opposed to the more established and developed leagues such as Premier League, La Liga (even the Indian Premier League) is that we don't have extremely wealthy parties purchasing teams and sparing no expense to develop the team. Although developing a team with the networth ranging around US$100 million is easier said than done. When you have one of the leaders in the A-league such as Melbourne victory which struggled to raise $5million to join the A-League, the context provides insight as to why we don't have C.Ronaldos or L.Messis tearing up the pitch on a regular basis.
That is not to say the inherent talent isn't already in Australia (housing commission in Victoria and possibly other states are filled with extremely talented soccer players and athletes in general) but more so the money involved in the A-league doensn't really compare to established leagues such as AFL (take the new rugby recruits for example).
However we can all remain optimistic that solid performances on the international stage could serve as a catalyst so that the soccer experts will brand the socceroos as a force to be reckoned with.
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Australia is not eliminated yet. They will beat Serbia and Ghana and will make it to the next round. At least I hope so and I will cross my fingers for the Socceroos.
However, the first World Cup match for the Socceroos has proven one more time how unsportsmanlike and totally intolerant Australians are. Take a look at the comments section of popular Australian media such as SMH and DT. How the majority of this nation has nothing to say in support for their national team but mean remarks.
The average Aussie will only tolerate sports categories like cricket, rugby league and AFL, maybe lawn bowling. That's Australian, every other sport is un-Australian and is viciously targeted with their badmouthing. Maybe that's what they call fair dinkum?
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If I were an Aussie, I wouldn't be too hard on the team going down spectacularly to the Germans, the Germans have a good chance of winning the comp this time around.....now drawing with the US, that's hands-to-face stuff.
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It would be if the US were not twice the team that the Aussies are.
The Germans were right, Australia have only one player of any attacking quality (Cahill). He and Schwarzer are the only two you have worthy of playing in a world cup right now.
Anyone who expected anything other than a comfortable German win was deluding themselves, though even I expectd more fight from the Aussies than they showed in the first half. The red card obviously made things impossible in the second and was harsh but had no bearing on the result at all.
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Work tomorrow so bed early tonight and will be the first game tonight I haven't watched live. Up at 4:30 ready for the early games, record and review the late night games at half time.
I find it odd that you reference the SBS commentary Nick. Pre-match Craig Foster who is Australia's most rated football analyst tipped an Australian win. He sited their Heart, Passion, and never say die Aussie attitude would be the difference. He played to the stereotype Australian within all of them. The classic Aussie battler.
My prediction was 3-0 to Germany. With Cahill departing over 30 minutes from the end of the game, that probably cost them a goal. Not a bad prediction. So 40 years in the UK. 35 years as a football fan having played 11 aside at school and 5 aside as an adult, seems I know more about the sport than he does.
Ex-Socceroo player was quoted in the Age of Melbourne last week that the reason they call the group the 'group of death' was because Australia was in it. What!!! I couldn't believe that when I read it.
Australia were never going to get anything from the game and what amazes me is why they were leaving the open air venues in Melbourne and Sydney enmass at half time when surely Australians love a goal a minute game. It is the prinicple on which their AFL is based.
Oh ... I remember, another stereotypical Australian trait is they really don't like losing. They are blind to any performance they see as not winning, or that they can claim, we were the best but we were robbed by a stark harsh World which is against us. (As with the giveaway Lucas Neill penalty in 2006. It wasn't his fault it was a conspiracy from FIFA, the ref, and the Italians).
So I suppose that is why they have no real sporting heart.
While you are winning, turn around and the whole country is behind you.
When you are losing, turn around and there is no one there, you are on your own. Quality.
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Nick, living in Australia you ought to know by now that the name "Australian Football" refers to our indigenous code. Soccer is known as soccer, hence the name "Socceroos".
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If (some of the) Aussies on here want to bury their heads in the sand and harp on about Rugby or ARF that's their affair. Good luck to them.
BUT the fact remains that over half of the global population watches this tournament. Football ("soccer") is MASSIVE. Much bigger than ARF or Cricket or Rugby. And it always will be.
The World Cup is the biggest event on the planet.
And you lot are in it.
So get your chins up and do your best and get behind your national team!
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I was most surprised when I read that you thought Australia's bid to host the 2022 World Cup was "always looking like an implausible cause". I would say, if anything, it has always looked like a sure thing; England 2018, then Australia 2022. My understanding was that given the comments by FIFA about bringing the Cup back to Europe in 2018, and the strength of England's bid, its hosting of the 2018 became so much of a sure thing that Australia was better off concentrating on the 2022 bid.
Having looked at most of the bids, the English and Australian ones stand out as the only truly serious and earnest ones. The promotional video with Nicole Kidman alone brings me to tears every time I watch it.
And furthermore, the media's response to Australia's defeat is frankly sickening. What happened to supporting your team through its ups and downs, and believing in miracles on the pitch?
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The Midland 20 - spot on mate. We have to take this on the chin and get on with it.
Any team with our age, as well as the tactics of Verbeek was going to get slaughtered against the real class that is Germany.
Anyone who follows the world game in this country would have said that we were very dodgy for this tournament. There are a number of people who don't follow the sport, who were expecting a repeat of 2006 and now are whinging that we got caned.
The fault lies at the management and coaching level. The team needed new blood and an overhaul. That never happened. Also, sadly I just don't think these days we are producing the Timmy Cahills, Harry Kewells etc as we did before... and now more kids play football/soccer than any other sport...
Oh well, viva espana!
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I think the 'realistic streak in the Australian sporting public' comes from seeing the Socceroos fail to qualify for the World Cup for 32 years, Nick.
Flying back and forth across the Pacific beating teams like the Solomon Islands 30 nil, then go down in some last gasp play off against a team from South America. Excruciating
Plus the lack of competition, the Australian players who gave up and went to play for other countries...
So qualifying means not just getting knocked flat by a quality team like Germany, it means high level competition and an opportunity to improve
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OH MY GOD!!! I agree with 11pete11!!
Hopefully, the Socceroos will be on a plane home next week and Australia can go back to concentrating on what we are good at.
As for the logical fallacy that soccer must be good because it's popular: there are many, many things in this world that are popular but are not particularly good. I'd suggest that soccer is popular because it's a lowest common denominator sport.
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murph73v2 wrote:
"......go back to concentrating on what we are good at."
And what was that?
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To put it in perspective. This was a single loss against a German team close to the top of its powers. The Socceroos did a decent job of qualifying for this World Cup and probably over-performed at the last.
Having said that; if failure on the World Stage is what it takes for the FFA to get grassroots football/youth development in order, then so be it. It will ultimately be for the best.
If we earn the right to host the 2022 World Cup, then the time to start grooming the next generation of Socceroos to have a hope of winning a home world cup is now.
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The 4-0 was not a big catastrophe. Everything was against Australia, they were playing against a very good fresh team from Germany, a country famed for faring well in WCs even when having an average (for their standards) teams. Just look at us Greeks, we lost 2-0 to Korea which while indeed an interesting team, it is not exactly at the top of the range. While different in styles and background, something Greece and Australia have in common is the age of footballers, they are the 2 oldest teams around. No wonder they find it hard to keep up in an ever increasing in terms of endurance and energy international competition. Us Greeks are even more disadvantaged by having also the tallest and most well-built players of the tournament which makes them incredibly slow, not that they were any particularly faster in their heyday - but at least back in 2004 they had a solid (and fantastically clean and courteous) defense which permitted them to go to organised counter-attacks at the right moment.
No worries. Australians can still present a nice team against Ghanese and Serbians. It will be tough, as we all saw in the Ghana-Serbia game that both teams are potentially very powerfull but still Australia has not said its last word with a defeat against favorite Germany.
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I think the arrival of some high profile players into the A League (Juninho Paulista, Robbie Fowler, etc etc), has raised the popularity of soccer in this country over the last couple of years. So I personally don't believe it is merely a niche sport.
However, if Australia had a knitting team, and were in a major global competition, I'd bloody well get behind them!
It's just a shame some of my fellow country men don't do the same ...
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20 murph73v2 wrote: "OH MY GOD!!! I agree with 11pete11!!"
Oh dear this will never do. Could someone have spiked our drinks.
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21. At 12:54pm on 14 Jun 2010, UweEllinghausen wrote:
murph73v2 wrote:
"......go back to concentrating on what we are good at."
And what was that?
=========================
League, Union, Cricket, AFL - sports that don't revolve around trying to dupe the ref by rolling around on the ground and gnashing one's teeth like a three year old. Sports where the fans don't have to be separated for fear of violence.
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#20 murph73v2:
"OH MY GOD!!! I agree with 11pete11!!"
OH MY GOD!!! I agree with murph73v2!!! : )
Soccer is a just too one dimensional for me, you just kick the ball right?
And you can hit it with your...head?
Humans have arms and hands don't we?
Why not use them?
The Socceroos?
Good luck to them but for real entertainment Rugby League has it all.
Sadly, with its current rules Rugby Union has lost its magic and AFL always looks a bit silly with that weird bouncing the ball when the players run with it and that odd punching pass action.
Of the football team games give me Rugby League any time.
Nothing beats it for using all the skills.
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Australians will support their national team in any sport really, but what we want is for them to "have a go" - the Socceroos didn't. Whether it was tactics or ineptitude or both - ave a bloody go ya mug!
Or did Verbeek secretly give up against Germany and save his dodgy "strikers" for Ghana and Serbia?
As for Soccer taking over in Australia because it's the "World Game" - they've been promising that for 40 years and now A-League attendances have started declining after a bright start a few years ago. Starbucks was the "World Coffee Shop" and look what happened to them in Australia.
There is room for all codes and many sports in Australia but if soccer bores think they are going to achieve the monotonous domination of the media in Australia that they enjoy in the UK or South America then, like Starbucks, they need to wake up and smell the superior local coffee.
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John Trovolta is giving his full support to the Australian Socceroos; perhaps it’s because he too lived for so long with an ill child, Jett. The memory of Jett's death must linger, will always linger, fresh in John's mind. It always does when you lose a child.
Nobody knew that goalkeeper, Brad Jones had found himself in a smiliar position. His young son, Luca was disagnosed with leukemia.
You can say what you like about the Socceroos, but they have stood united in this time of sorrow.
In Johannesburg, the Socceroos set about finding meaning from tragedy; the meaning was supposed to come from an incredible victory over Germany. But it wasn't to be.
The news about Luca so devastated the players that a few of them cried.
Coach Pim Verbeek told the team: “Keep on going, and do what you have to do.”
The Socceroos accepted the challenge, but got a major soccer setback. How to find meaning in a 4-0 loss?
Maybe the meaning is: when a child falls deathly ill, football becomes far less relevant.
May God keep Luca Jones and his family, including his soccer family.
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Posts 1, 20 & 29. *sigh*
Quel surprise, 11pete11 and Greg Warner don't want to talk about it.
Instead they'll sneer at football and pretend they don't care. Something tells me you would be whistling a different tune had the 'Socceroos' beaten a traditional European power. Imagine the comments had the defeated Europeans been English!
But instead you claim Australia doesn't care. Perhaps, if that was the avenue you wished to take, you could have enquired seriously as to why football isn't as popular in Australia, Greg, rather than insinuating that the vast majority of the planet is somehow misguided.
You want to talk about BP instead, Pete? You do remember ths blog is called Nick Bryant's Australia, don't you? It's just you seem inclined to focus on problems you regard as British at every possible juncture.
Of course being taken to school in the World's game on the World stage stings. Australia defines itself by sport, and whether you claim to like the game, or not, I know you care and you have to learn to take your beatings better if you want to enjoy those of others...
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Who cares about that particular circus? My only concern is that somehow public money will be used to "bring Australia up to world standard".Some Oz sports fans are so naive, don't they realise that, to most of the world, there's only one sport.
Even to someone like me who doesn't know soccer from schmoccer,understands that Oz is not in the race and probably never will be.Hopefully, after the opening debacle the media will return to normal,what a ludicrous 'beat up'.
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32 stirling222: If you read my post carefully, without your bias against Australia or me, you will see that my comments were aimed at a media that sensationalises that which is of little interest to most Australians, other than ex Europeans living in Australia, or their off spring.
The over the top coverage taken by the media would have those living in other countries believing soccer is as popular in Australia as other codes, such as Union, League, Rugby, Aussie Rules.
If there wasn't the media hype, Australia would rate soccer as about as popular as woman's sports, such as woman's hockey, woman's netball or similar.
They barely get a mention, yet they have a much larger following than the media dares to admit.
So let me repeat, I didn't bag the game, I was attacking the false impression the media has been giving concerning this whole soccer beat ups, of which Nick is now a part of.
As for my preferences, I quite like soccer.
It is a very fast and clever game which I'd prefer to watch rather than either League or Union, thought Aussie Rules is my choice of codes.
My mentioning BP was because there is far more interest in Australia at the moment concerning the oil spill in the Mexican gulf than there is in the soccer World Cup, and that subject hasn't even rated a mention in Nick's blogs so far.
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Bit of a side comment... 4-0 to Germany doesn't mean much to me except the margin (I had $5 on Germany with a +2 goal start, so yay me), we were always going down like a soccer trip victim.
Anyway the side comment is about "world football", which we call soccer and we're not alone - the main stadium at this world cup is called Soccer City - and its popularity or otherwise in Oz.
A lot of people are similar to myself, follow it off-hand (and will have to pick Heart or Victory next season), throw some cash at a bookie for an interest either way (damn you Japan!!), may or may not have an EPL side (I dont), and generally treat it as something to watch or talk about if you want to. But it isn't my code. It's an imported game, we invented our own football and had multiple leagues in operation prior to the current set of coded rules for soccer (1850s vs 1880s). Melbourne Football Club is the oldest continually operational football club in the world.
What I dont like, and you'll see the reactions to this in all the comments from others about nil-nil draws, stage diving, pretending to be hurt, wasting time, stupid politics, Euro-arrogance etc, is being told that this game is the "only" true football. It isn't. It isn't even the only football in England, Italy, France or Argentina - all of which are soccer nations and all of which also play Rugby Union (which is called "football" in NZ...).
As for why it isn't popular... who says it has to be? What law of the universe is Australia breaking by creating and sticking with our own football? Who is so arrogant as to tell a country what sport it can and cannot follow, and that by following its own sport it is somehow ignorant?
Soccer people, thats who.
The answer to why it isn't popular is this simple - we've got our own game. It's only people who dont accept this that then seek a reason as to why soccer isn't that game.
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32 stirling222 wrote: "It's just you seem inclined to focus on problems you regard as British at every possible juncture."
According to AllenT2 and ColleenBen in Nick's blog "Obama: Canceller In Chief" I am perceived to be anti American.
I am neither anti British nor anti American. My comments have always been to correcting misleading information slated to suit a particular country, or its people. That includes comments concerning Australia and Australian history, by some Australians.
The problem with writing anything about Australia's early history, particularly the injustices of that time, one can't help but criticise Britain, because Australia was British controlled up till the 80's and still has a British Monarch.
We still have a large percentage of our migrants coming here from Britain, and they swing opinion towards a British perspective...hence why we have a strong media interest in the World Cup...it is not of that much interest to generational Aussies, as has been noted by other posters.
Personally, I believe we all need to be constructively criticising our nations and the nations of others, because we are no longer independent sovereignties...laws of all nations are primarily based on the money and finances of those nations, yet the multi corporate giants make a mockery of such laws.
And the media now hones in on anything that's perceived to make money, which is again the base of my criticisms generally...if the stories are harmonious and peaceful, they don't make money. War, upheaval, animosity, argument or disagreement will always sell more papers than those promoting peace and contentment...with the exception of gardening shows....
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Let's not be too hard on Oz soccer; they did really well in 2006--I feel like a well-planned dive by Italy kept the Aussies from going further back then. Australian guts and machismo can do wonders : I think that Aussie-Rules Football is the toughest, most rugged and excruciating of ALL team sports. AFL makes wild tiger wrestling look sissy!!
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Our football is fine! In fact it's kicking goals, literally and metaphorically what with tidy grounds, inclusive training programs for the kiddies and respect toward aboriginals. It's a good time to be into football. I'm not sure about rugby (which is what I'd mean by saying 'football' if I lived in NSW or QLD).
Our soccer on the other hand is pretty ordinary. That's only to be expected, since we're usually more interested in football. For me soccer is win-win; if we do well (ie beat any other team) that's great, if we get thrashed...well it's only soccer.
By the way, you were pretty much right about The Slap in your previous blog. It's very readable and all about how multicultural Melbourne is, but there is some very plonking writing there. Every now and then characters say things that nobody ever said in any language and there's a reference to 'an internet website', which must be different to all those other kinds of website. I don't believe the old Greek people would swear so hard or be so atheistic, but I really don't know as much about old Greeks as Tsiolkas does - it just seems like he's projecting the behaviour of the young characters on the oldies. However, it's a ripping read and way better than Tim Winton.
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No support for football? Let's see...30,000 fans at the game on the other side of the world, and 15,000 apeice at the big screens in Sydney and Melbourne on a rainy winter morning, at 4:40am? Perhaps the 30,000 average attendance of the Melbourne Victory for the past two seasons indicate a lack of popularity?
No, of course there's no support Pete. And you're a true Australian who speaks for everyone born here, so you should know. You and Demitriou can just go and stick your heads in the sand.
The AFL management has been running scared since the A League kicked off in 2005, taking every opportunity to take cheap pot shots and derial support in football (I'm talking about their blackmailing of the Aussie bid for the .18/'22 world cup) and their drive to create a jingo-istic fervour against what they see as a threat to their income. But then again football isn't special in this regard, they jump all over NRL at every chance they get too while keeping strangley quiet about all their own issues.
Anyway, onto the Aus V Germany game...
It's no surprise to anyone who knows the game and teams involved, the only ones who appear shocked are the mainstream news who seemt o believe including an aging and injured Kewell would somehow have reversed the score line. Australia 4 years ago had the drive and the want to win teh WC, but they lacked the talent (although there was planty to have) and the experience. This atime around they appear to have none at all. Aus are in a rebuilding phase, pure and simple. Verbeek should have done the right thing by the country and given all the youngsters a run, let them experience what a WC match feels like so when they're back in 4 years time that weight has been pulled from their shoulders and they can get on with the game.
But even with that, Aus were woefully bad on the night. The odd team selection didn't help (strikers?), but they played at school boy level. I was humming the Benny Hill theme tune whener a German got the ball as they were swarmed by blue shirts leavng all the Germans un marked. It says a lot that a team who gave the resulting world champions a run for their money 4 years ago were out performed by Suoth Africa over the weekend.
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39 Michael: Where did you read me say "No support for football?"
The closest I can find is "Other than a media beat up, there is no real soccer interest in Australia, other than with the ex Europeans with Aussie citizenship and a piece of paper to prove it."
Don't you know the difference between 'support' and 'interest'?
Support is on going and continuous, even strong dedication. Interest is a current fad. Here today, forgotten tomorrow.
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#32 stirling222:
Nice to see you are back stirling...but you are off the mark again.
Yes, I could have responded as you suggested I respond but I don't believe you make the rules in Nick's blog, so I responded how I wished to respond.
You said "Quel surprise, 11pete11 and Greg Warner don't want to talk about it".
Talk about what? Australia being beaten by Germany? So what, it's just a game and as I responded I don't particularly like soccer because, as I said, I find it too one-dimensional.
That's my opinion, which it is my right to express, isn't it?
You said "Instead they'll sneer at football and pretend they don't care".
Stirling...I DON'T care...it's not my preferred "team game played with a ball".
Sneering? Pretending?
Really stirling, an opinion is "sneering"? And you are the judge if someone is expressing an opinion or "pretending".
You then said "But instead you claim Australia doesn't care. Perhaps, if that was the avenue you wished to take, you could have enquired seriously as to why football isn't as popular in Australia, Greg, rather than insinuating that the vast majority of the planet is somehow misguided".
Stirling...did I insinuate such a thing? Perhaps you are speed reading and missing the point, but I posted a personal preference about which ball game I prefer and why. I also wished the Socceroos well, any problem with that?
As other posters here have suggested and stated, one of the reasons why Soccer is not as popular in Australia as it is some other countries is that Australia has a couple of other great team ball games and many of us prefer them to soccer.
I also believe an oval shaped ball adds more spice to a team ball game (because of the random nature of the bounce) rather than a round one, but please don't suggest that by saying that I am somehow disparaging those with a different opinion.
And BTW, get a new goalie : )
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Melbourne in particular enjoys branding itself as the sporting capital of Australia and arguably the southern hemisphere (which isn't particularly difficult when the competing nations in the southern hemisphere are Oceania and the odd country in Sth America and Africa. Which is why we host the Australian Open (only grand slam in the southern hemisphere), the Australian Grand Prix, have previously hosted the rugby world cup, the Olympics (twice) the commonwealth games and so forth.
So why not allow Australia to host the FIFA world cup? Australia only won 13 gold medals in the 2 disciplines of swimming and track and field. Whilst I wasn't around during the mid 50's I think we can speculate that Australian's enjoy participating and hopefully excelling in as many sports possible. Why else would certain members of the community frequently analyse the "Wagga Wagga" effect? Why else would the AIS 700 scholarships each year which completely cover tertiary tuition and fees associated with training?
I can agree with 11pete11 that it can make your eyes roll back at times when companies go as far as to distribute free lucky underpants in support of a team which were never favoured to make it to the finals. However I think there is room for Australians to support Australian Rules, Rugby, and soccer. We have the pitches for it and the multiculturalism for it also. Yes the whole banter about Australian soccer will be extremely competitive gets a bit old considering infrequent incidences of international success. I always thought if FIFA incorporated a "once the ball crosses the half way line it can't go back" similar to basketball it would be a more interesting game. But that's merely speculative criticism and I have nothing to cite to back up the viability of such a rule inclusion.
Admittedly it will be hard for soccer to foster a world class team prior to the onset of the 20s. I suggest this because cricketers often complain that AFL recruiting staff poach potential players and I suppose with Gen Z (or generation i whatever you prefer) the prospect of the well financed sport might outweigh the more enjoyable sport due to the fact that owning a home is an unrealistic prospect for generation y, I would imagine it would be worse for generation Z.
That aside we can be optimistic that in 2018/2022 with an increased population perhaps there will be a greater pool to choose from.
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#34 Pete, I'm not biased against Australia, I even wanted Oz to turn Fritz over. It's just you and the many others like you I find tiresome. Australia is the land of sporting excuse. Your sort talks so much about the 'Aussie spirit' yet as soon as they lose it's the Aussie inability to handle defeat, and deflection tactics that are more evident. Whether it's football, rugby, cricket or whatever, when Australia loses the excuse-makers go into overdrive, and if no excuses can be found then you claim no one cares, or you belittle the game itself. Whether it's Ricky Ponting bleating about 'pretty ordinary' tactics from opposition captains or national criticism of your conquerers' style in the rugby, I don't remember EVER hearing acknowledgement of Australia simply being bettered. Sure they might add on a congratulatory afterthought but by then the excuses have been well and truly laid out.
Oh and Pete you appear to be defeating your own argument in post #40.
Greg: "Soccer is a just too one dimensional for me, you just kick the ball right? And you can hit it with your...head? Humans have arms and hands don't we? Why not use them?"
Those, my friend, are disparaging comments. I know you know more about the rules of the game than that, so I believe you are attempting to ridicule football by over simplifying the basics. Why else would you place a pause between 'your' and 'head'? As for you not caring, I don't believe you. Are you saying you don't care if Australia's sports teams are humiliated if it's not in one of your favourite sports? Personally I do care when England or Britain loses at any sport. If it was in front of an audience the size of the World Cup's, that would bother me. Maybe I just care more.
As for the Australian public simply not having any interest in the game, judging by the number of yellow shirts in London the other night I'd say it's definitely growing, and they all certainly cared, so forgive me when I say the two of you don't speak for as many of your compatriots as you think you do.
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43 stirling222 wrote: "It's just you and the many others like you I find tiresome....Your sort talks so much about the 'Aussie spirit' yet as soon as they lose it's the Aussie inability to handle defeat, and deflection tactics that are more evident."
So are you talking to me specifically, to Australians generally, or just having a rave?
"Oh and Pete you appear to be defeating your own argument in post #40."
And after completely missing what I had to say as is evident in the diatribe you stated directly before this, how exactly do you come to this conclusion?
Let me give you a clue that others have tried, and failed, to make with you.
No person is a full representative of any nation. I am Australian but I get into serious disagreement with many of my fellow country men on many issues.
As to your sports referenced to me, if you go back and check the 'sport' posts of Nicks, you will find I hardly, if ever, posted to them. This is the first. I don't find an interest in discussing sport.
SO in conclusion....you object when people make statements like 'you Brits...or poms'....yet you think it quite reasonable to bundle all Australians together...put my name on the collective...and then bag me.
As a Brit, are you a representative or your country?
Are you suggesting that maybe I can do the same with you from now on????
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43 stirling222 wrote: "As for the Australian public simply not having any interest in the game, judging by the number of yellow shirts in London the other night I'd say it's definitely growing,"
Don't you know the difference between 'support' and 'interest'?
Support is on going and continuous, even strong dedication. Interest is a current fad. Here today, forgotten tomorrow.
"...so forgive me when I say the two of you don't speak for as many of your compatriots as you think you do."
No you are not forgiven....
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11pete11 quote 1: "Here we go again. Other than a media beat up, there is no real soccer interest in Australia, other than with the ex Europeans with Aussie citizenship and a piece of paper to prove it."
11pete11 quote 2: "Where did you read me say "No support for football?""
11pete11 quote 3: "Don't you know the difference between 'support' and 'interest'? Support is on going and continuous, even strong dedication. Interest is a current fad. Here today, forgotten tomorrow."
In quote 1 you claim there is no interest in Australia for football.
In quote 2 you deny saying you ever claimed there was no support for football in Australia, i.e. there is support.
In quote 3 you kindly give us your interpretation of the two terms 'interest' and 'support'.
All I can extrapulate from your rather muddled and clearly irritated responses is that there IS support (ongoing and continuous, even strong dedication) for football in Australia, ergo a heavy defeat in the biggest sporting event on Earth is a perfectly reasonable subject for Nick to write about.
As for your claim that the oil spill is of far more interest to the majority of Australians than the World Cup, that doesn't wash I'm afraid, mate. This is 2010. All I have to do is switch on my PC and look at your news pages and discussion sites. Have a look yourself. Most Aussie newspapers even have an entire section dedicated to the WC as well as numerous connected stories. The BP disaster barely warrants a mention today.
I suppose now you're going to tell me your news desks and offices have been taken over by psychotic Europeans hell bent on imposing their pointless game on a disinterested public. Well I'm sorry but it's obvious Australia does care, and your pretence that no one in Australia even noticed let alone cared reeks of poor sportsmanship and an inability to cope with losing, and my point is that that is typical.
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46 stirling222: Well the 11Pete11 you have created and the real me have absolutely nothing in common. Whether we had won the game or not, and only a fool would have thought we would have won, was of no interest to me.
As to you 'All I have to do is switch on my PC and look at your news pages and discussion sites.'
For heaven's sake don't you bother reading any of my posts all the way through? My exact point was that the media in general 'make' the priority headlines. It is then assumed, by the likes of you, that this is what the MAJORITY Of Aussies are taking, or taking an interest in.
Go back over my posts and see how I have been consistent in my criticism of the media 'making' stories more of a priority than they deserve.
What is being discussed in pubs, in work places, and in serious discussions generally in Aussis is not the soccer...to requote myself:
"Here we go again. Other than a media beat up, there is no real soccer interest in Australia, other than with the ex Europeans with Aussie citizenship and a piece of paper to prove it."
"Support is on going and continuous, even strong dedication. Interest is a current fad. Here today, forgotten tomorrow."
The BP oil matter, along with the mining tax, is very much on the minds of more Aussies..strong and continuous...compared to the interest in a current fad, that will be forgotten by this time next month.
You are so busy looking for 'anti British' comments in my posts that you blind yourself to my real intention...did you bother reading that part above? If no, why not?
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I read what you said and concluded it makes no sense. I'm not sure why you think I'm looking for 'anti-British' sentiments in your comments. All I did was refer once to your inclination for raising British issues. I think that is supported by your insistence on going on about BP.
The World Cup is a 'current fad'? Of course it's a current fad! It's a sporting event that takes place every four years! What else can it be? Do you think the papers in Europe, Africa and S. America are packed full of World Cup news year in year out?! Would you say they don't care there either? In fact, as news events go, the World Cup lasts longer than most. How many stories last more than a month? I know we long since stopped talking about our general election here and that was only in May.
It's easy to sound superior comparing oil disasters and football in terms of seriousness, but, despite feeling desperate for the inhabitants of Louisiana and Florida as well as the British and American pension holders, I know which subject I will be primarily focusing on over the next few weeks. The World Cup is important. Perhaps you'd like me to give a little 11pete11-style definition comparison between 'important' and 'serious'?
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...nil-nil draw...one-one draw...nil-nil draw...
Admit it, it's a complete and utter snore fest.
CERN should undertake a study of "the time-slowing phenomena caused by watching soccer".
It's beyond me why something so utterly boring can make people so violent and shouty; other than I guess it has the same effects on humans as caging apes at as zoo. The sad difference is that humans appear to do it voluntarily.
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The Australians played so much below par it is hard to quantify this game. They have some really good players who just did not perform in this particular match. The German team is a good blend of youth and experience, but the media in Germany is whipping the good citizens up into a mild frenzy, as usual. A bit early IMO. I think the German team will be found out once they hit one of the big teams like Brazil, Argentina, Spain, and maybe one or two others? It is the German defence that will probably crumble.
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Not interested in soccer? Well there is a reasonable chance that England and Australia could meet each other after the group stage. If England win group C and Australia are runners up in group D.
Now you don't have to be a genius to see that such an encounter would set our respective media outlets on fire.
Were Australia to win (in a knockout stage) the English wouldn't hear the end of it till at least the year 7325 AD or until such a point when Australia runs out of water, and poor Nick would have no option other than to leave Sydney within 24hrs and transfer to the BBC's Kabul office for health reasons (keeping his sanity)
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
48 stirling222: Your arguing for argument sake is rather pointless. If you don't like what I have to say, or don't agree with my perspective, don't read it....and don't comment.
By the sounds of your posts, you could do with a decent holiday...maybe its time to visit Aussie to see what we are REALLY like, as opposed to you slanted perspective.
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SwanHills wrote:
"I think the German team will be found out once they hit one of the big teams like Brazil, Argentina, Spain, and maybe one or two others? It is the German defence that will probably crumble."
I'm not so sure. Of the big name teams (still waiting on the Spain game tonight) only Germany have shown any real desire. Admitadly teh Aus team allowed them to play however they wanted, which will not happen again outside of the groups, but still.
An interesting front page article from the the Age website yesterday afternoon claimed Germany had an unfair advantage over Australia due to having experiance of the new ball for four months before the WC.
Yes. That's why Australia were dire. You heard it there first.
On a rrelated topic, man the quality of The Age has dived recently.
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#43 stirling222:
"Those, my friend, are disparaging comments. I know you know more about the rules of the game than that, so I believe you are attempting to ridicule football by over simplifying the basics".
Yes stirling I was disparaging soccer. As I said the game is too one dimensional for me to take it seriously. However, if you and a few hundred other million people enjoy it, good luck to you. Actually, I'm looking forward to Wimbledon. Tennis is a much more interesting game. But tennis aside, I have been commenting on football team sports and my comments still stand. I enjoy watching Rugby League. If you see my original post, you will also see I was somewhat disparaging of Australian Rules Football. However, I prefer AFL to soccer.
"As for you not caring, I don't believe you".
Well, until we can install "truth-o-meters" on the web you will have to believe me. Or not, it's up to you. I don't care. If Australia does well, I will be proud. If we don't, no problem.
"you don't speak for as many of your compatriots as you think you do".
That's OK with me...I was expressing my own opinion.
Now, if you want to move on to F1...Go Webber!
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Soccer? It's only been a few years since they tried to "detribalise" the game here to appeal to the main stream Australian community. What a failure that's been. It's slow scoring; the players look as though they need a good feed and wash. It'll never become an important sport here so why are we even trying to pretend it's important to us. Let the immigrants have their game; it's not hurting anyone.
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Popular doesn't make it better.
Kevin Rudd was once popular and look at what a sham he has turned into.
Soccer support is for those of the lowest common denominator in the UK. We already have rugby league for that here.
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"maybe its time to visit Aussie to see what we are REALLY like."
"Let the immigrants have their game."
There you go, Stirling, I just saved you an air fair.
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57 nick wrote: "Kevin Rudd was once popular and look at what a sham he has turned into.
Soccer support is for those of the lowest common denominator in the UK. We already have rugby league for that here."
Kevin Rudd....Soccer...Rugby League...the UK....I am confused. So does Tony Abbott play for Manchester United or for the North Sydney Leagues Club?
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Greg warner and 11pete11 don’t condemn what you don’t understand. You can’t truly appreciate the skill level involved in a sport until you have played it or at least followed it intently. Rugby league to me is the most one dimensional game. I see it as a large game of bull dog (a kids school yard game), and I like union but as I said that’s just me not following a game that’s only played in Australia and northern England. Ask a Brazilian about rugby and they won’t have a clue and would probably see it as mindless and barbaric.
Football (soccer) is an incredibly skilful game and when played right is the most beautiful game in the world. Testament to its billions of fans around the world (ask anyone in South East Asia and they will know more about football players then political leaders). Unfortunately Australia never embraced the game maybe it has something to do with the early colonial identification with Britain (I’m sure there is a paper written about it somewhere) and Ausse rules is a kick back to the Irish influence no doubt. But one thing I’m am sure about those who choose to have no interest in the world cup are missing out on the worlds biggest spectacle and it’s a great ice breaker when talking to people from other countries. But then I guess the Australians are just too socially conscious to be worried about such trivial matters such as soccer. Great to see Obama coming out with such a damning statement yesterday 11pete11
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"Testament to its billions of fans around the world"
Once again the Ad Populum logical fallacy rears it's head.
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Cheers Michael, that was a close one.
Pete, thanks for caring but I'm fine. I know you would rather this blog were a platform for the likes of you to wax lyrical, through misty eyes about the beauty and wonder of Australia and its unequalled people, and I know seeing European immigrants polluting your beautiful populace must be very painful for you. Unfortunately yours is quite a narrow point of view and is not shared by many outside Australia. So, while I can see it infuriates you, I don't intend to allow you your romantic vision for this blog to reach fruition.
Greg, Webber is talented, but I thought Red Bull was supposed to have the best car this year. I think he needs to up his game if he wants to make anything of this season!
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Murph. Perhaps billions is a bit of an exaggeration but I do suppose you agree that it is by far the biggest global sporting event. Thus merits such media coverage and world wide attention. Maybe not in Australia as some of these blogs would have us believe. But then I guess since we are writing about it maybe that’s proof enough. 63 and counting is well above the Nick Bryant average
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Pete, maybe you're out of touch with the younger generations? Football is exceptionally popular in Australia these days.
I'm not just talking about those who watch the English and German leagues on satellite TV (maybe you don't count these people as 'true Aussies'), but amongst those who actually play it. Add to that the fact the national team is consistently quite good and the atmosphere that comes from competing against the rest of the world and the sport will only become more popular.
Now personally I agree that there is far too much hype, and it's not a sport I massively enjoy. Just be thankful you are not in the UK right now- the amount of money spent on cheesy footy-based TV adverts is frankly embarassing (and I thought the Tourism Queensland ads were grossly self-promoting....).
All I can say is, "Come on the Kiwis".
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#62 stirling222:
Thanks stirling...yeah, Mark had his own problems with the "Germans" in Turkey : )
And McLaren is catching up...Go Jenson, Go Lewis!
How's that for an insight...if it can't be an Aussie, it should be a Brit : )
#60 CrumlinT:
Hold on there Crum...I understand soccer, it's just that I don't patrticularly like it as a game because I feel there are many more games that require a greater amount of brainpower.
And when you say "are missing out on the worlds biggest spectacle and it’s a great ice breaker when talking to people from other countries", are you sure about that?
Are the Olympic games bigger?
And as for "ice breaker" is that right? You're in Singapore and you say to a good looking girl at the bar, "I believe Ivory Coast is looking better than Ghana".
Or you are in Myanmar and you say "I hear your country is developing nuclear weapons but I was surprised England drew with the USA".
I guess "ice breaking" is a positive about the World Cup.
I might even change my opinion...when hell freezes over!
How's that for ice!
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pciii - of course soccer is popular in Australia - it always has been, because Australians will embrace any sport.
But it is still far behind Aussie Rules and even Rugby League. One may well quote the "popularity" of football in Asia but most of their local club attendances are pitiful and even the national team doesn't get much support in places like Thailand. It's all about the hype and media saturation from the big European clubs, like a generation before it was Michael Jordan and the NBA.
All good entertanment but not grass-roots. Trying to impose soccer on Australia as the main sport though is like trying to impose ice-hockey on England.
Crumlin, Australia never embraced soccer because it didn't exist when our indigenous code, the most authentic modern expression of ancient football games, was codified. In fact the "Eton game" as soccer was known at first, didn't even ban handling until 1869 when Melbourne FC was already 15 years old.
If people had been pouring out of Australia and taking their game with them, during that formative period, instead of pouring into it, then maybe it would've been a different story. Why on earth we should take some Brazilian's description of soccer as "the beautiful game" at face value, when by your own admission they know nothing of other codes, baffles me.
Anyway, the best Brazilian footballer I've seen is [Harry O'Brien[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator] Not even Pele got a game with Collingwood!
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CrumlinT
I don't disagree that it's popular. The argument is that popularity does not automatically equate with something being good.
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Bren, I'm not sure if you're totally right. What football does seem to have is national appeal as a sport that people actually play.
The comercial side of the European leagues completely bores me, but people do take note of what happens there. Regardless though, it's the number of young kids who are playing the game that I think demonstrates it is taking hold in Australia.
The Ice Hockey thing doesn't stack up either: football requires next to no equipment or specialist venues and can be played relatively safely by people of very different abilities. The fact that countries with climates as wildy differing as Russia, Australia and the UK are able to host the world cup (or at least put forward a credible bid) shows that climate and weather aren't really a deterrant either.
Murph - I agree.
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I wouldn’t agree with popularity not equating with something being good. I would have thought that popularity had everything to do with some thing being good hence its popularity. You may not like it which is clear but obviously millions disagree with you.
Also greg I would think the world cup is far bigger then the Olympics something you will probably come around to realising if Australia ever get to host it. I’m pretty sure television figures are higher for the world cup then the Olympics if you can use that as a barometer.
Brent 54 I doubt it. Aussie rules football is boring but having never played it or followed it closely mine is only an opinion. Maybe if I was from Australia that would be different.
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Well that's it Crumlin - Aussies play soccer, and they play Aussie Rules and Rugby League and Union- they have a choice, and they choose Aussie Rules more than the others.
In the UK, It's soccer, or rugby for a few - and that's it. You don't have any real choices.
You're talking like Australia knows nothing about soccer or the World Cup.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Australians aren't "against" soccer, but they have it in perspective.
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Doind the rounds in Australia is the following email - The Socceroos visited an orphanage in South Africa this morning."It's so good to put a smile on the faces of people constantly struggling and facing the impossible" said Jamal Umboto, aged 6.
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1-1
Not good enough but at least they had a go.
Kewell - definitely handball (as in "upper arm ball") but he didn't seem to have a clue where the ball was until it hit him and his arm was down.
In my old version of the rules, if it wasn't deliberate, even in a clear goal-scoring opportunity, then it's play on and no red card. Presumably they've changed the rules, or the guidelines?
Anyway I'd say their chances of advancing now are somewhere between Buckley's & Nunn but they've nothing to lose by going all-out against Serbia
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I think those saying that Football / Soccer have no pull in Australia should get themselves down to Darling Harbour for the Serbia game.
I was in Sydney over the weekend to watching England play The Wallabies, and popped down to DH after the Rugger to watch The Socceroos give their all against Ghana. It was great to see thousands of Aussies brave the chilly weather late in to the night. The atmosphere was great, the food was quite tasty, and the beer was nice and cold!
Bren - you're spot on. It was never a red card. Referees are only supposed to send a player off for handball on the line if they made a deliberate attempt to prevent a goal. Kewell was unlucky and referee... well... incompetent.
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Perhaps he should change his name to Vidic or Fabiano.
Anyway, sure Australians will watch their team in the World Cup. It just goes to show that they're not prejudiced against soccer particularly - but it's the equivalent of the Brits watching Wimbledon or their guys in the Olympic cycling. It's an occasional "big event" thing, not an infatuation with the sport.
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I'm an Australian living abroad, and I love football. I played when I was young on the weekend, and for school. I have always loved the skill and pace of the game so much more than rugby or Aussie Rules, even if I still like those 2 sports.
I have an English parent, so I have always, and still do, support England in the World Cup/Euro etc, and I have waited so long for Australia to take football seriously, and qualify for the World Cup, so I can support them too.
The way that the game in Oz has changed, as well as the league, (there was no league when I lived there), is remarkable. Australians have a tendency to be great at sport and I feel in my heart we can be great at football.
However, a few things should be changed;
Having an Australian coach is much better. It shows the world we do not have to rely on foreign knowledge. People have been playing and coaching the sport in Australia for years, they just don't get any attention. My "other" team, England, as you know has an Italian coach, and to be honest, regardless of how good or bad he might be, it still annoys me. A team from any country, should be from that country, coach included.
Get rid of "Socceroos". It's stupid, and sounds more like a funny name given to a team that has no idea about the sport. For starters, it's football, and not soccer. This may seem petty, and I've heard all the arguments on why it's called soccer, (we have our own football here etc), but to me it's like changing the name of Tennis to something else because a similar game already exists. It's the biggest sport in the world, call it by it's proper name. Other sports in Australia are called Rugby, Rugby League, Aussie Rules, etc, NOT football, so for gods sakes, just start using "football", when talking about "soccer".
I dream of the day when someone in South America says, "you Australians are great at football, and I hear that you are great at other sports too". And that's the point, I suppose. We are great at nearly all other sports, but they are sports that are confined to a certain region or style.
We are great supporters of sport, many of us are, and have always been behind the Australian football team. Let's make it a tradition, and show the world that we are truly the greatest sporting nation on earth.
Let's all look forward to the next World Cup together, and give our boys not only the loyalty and support, but the credit for playing their hearts out, as Aussies do.
Let's become world champions
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So,
England depart, having scored the same number as goals as
Australia, but over four games with no
Sending offs of their best players
Yet still they moan about ref decisions
Sub-prime or what?
Belfortrosso, you are making the same cringeworthy appeal to inferiority complex as other soccer bores - "Australia should play soccer primarily, and only call it "football" - ...erm, because that's what a lot of other countries do".
Doesn't wash - Aussie Rules is called football or footy in its heartland, always has been, was called that before soccer even existed, and the name soccer evolved in England. The idea that only Australia, Canada, USA etc call it "soccer" is a recent fantasy of people who are ignorant of other sports in other lands, and indeed ignorant of the history of Association Football, aka "soccer"
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There's actually a massive amount of support for the Australian national team and for soccer in general in Australia.
This was often divided along culutral lines represented mainly by newly arrived immigrants from soccer playing nations, as well as their children, particularly from southern and eastern Europe. Immigrants from the former Yugoslavian countries have supplied some of Australia's best players and coaches for example.
However, when the A-League was established alot of market research was done on the sports popularity, and what they found (which I have found to be true myself) is that nowadays soccer's popualrity is divided along generational lines.
In other words, young Australians, generation Y mainly, grew up watching and enjoying soccer. They love the English Premier League and the Champions League, and have been watching it most of their lives. It is the sport of choice for most young Australians, more people play it than any other sport by far. In other words they've grown up loving it and as the older generations (most of whom seem to have an inbuilt dislike for the game which from my perspective is completely irrational) pass away, the game will become more and more popular.
Another thing that the market research found was that the average Australian's attitude towards soccer often reflected their attitude to the outside world. In other words, the more cosmopoliton the attitude of the average person, the more likely they were to apreciatte soccer.
This ended up meaning that the main target audience for the A-League, and football in general in Australia, was twenty or thrity something young men, mainly those living in the big cities. They were more likely to follow the sport if they had a cosmopoliton outlook and a positive view of globalisation.
So the A-League was targetted not at middle aged or older generations at all and this is reflected both in their hostility/apathy towards the competition and the sport in general, and in the fact that the majority of attendees of A-League games are in their 20s and 30s.
The idea is that as they grow older they will introduce their children and it will become generational. It's a long term view, which it had to be.
In terms of the intrinsic value of soccer, I personally love playing and watching the sport (I love playing and watching rugby and cricket too, so these things aren't mutually exclusive as some myopic commentators would have you believe). I love that it's a game that can't be won thru violence or pure physical exhertion (I honestly believe this is something Australians struggle to understand sometimes - most of our sports are based on physicality), but rather thru skill, technical and tactical.
I understand if people don't like it, but they shouldn't feel threatened by it, or react with hostility towards people who do (after all it is the one-eyed anti-soccer Aussie who is in the minority, not only in the world but probably within Australia too).
Anyway, 2022 is a two-way race Nick, I'm amazed at how dismissive you are of Australia's chances. I've heard from a couple of guys in the minister for sport's office that we have a very good chance.
Apparently, or so I'm led to believe, the only two options being seriously considered are Australia and USA. The USA will generate more income, but they had it in '94 which counts against them.
In terms of us giving up on 2018, we were never gonna get it anyway, but Lowy (this is a guy with political and strategic influence by the way, he's not just the head of a large multi-national, he's also friends with some people in very high places) has made a very good move by getting out of Europe's way in 2018 - those same European countries have now sworn to support Australias bid for 2022, which may be the votes needed to get the bid over the line.
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That's the same self-serving "market research" that teh soccerbores have been pushing for the last 40 years. Don't kid youself there's anything new about it - the reality is that A-League attendances are still poor, and dropping.
Far from being young and outward-looking, those who want to wish otehr sports away in Australia and for soccer to be #1 are either conservatives who can't adapt to a different culture or easily influenced by PR and suffering from an inferioty complex that compels them to follow the worldwide majority.
I bet they were the saddos who went to Starbucks!
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The Socceroos pushing market research??
Firstly, the FFA didn't do any market research 40 years ago, they couldn't really afford to even pay their national coach 40 years ago, let alone commision a market research company.
The research was done around 2003-2004, and it found what I described. It also cost alot of money, so if you think you know better maybe you should start charging big companies and organisations for your in depth analysis. There's millions of dollars in it.
The A-League's attendances are about 11,000 on average. That's about 4 or 5 thousand less than the NRL, a competition with far more resources and about 100 years of hsitory.
I know it's hard for you to understand, but lots of people love soccer, just because they think it's a great sport. The younger the person in Australia, the more likely they'll have a positive outlook on soccer as well. Again, it has alot to do with exposure, many people in Generation Y have been following European football passionatley their entire lives and many of them played or still play the game.
Try coming down to Miranda Magpies (we field over 100 teams at all levels and age grades) and tell us that we are a bunch of saddos who go to starbucks. Or don't, it probably wouldn't be healthy.
The other thing you're ignoring is that almost all the people who play soccer follow rugby league, AFL, cricket and other sports just as passionatley as they follow football.
Agian, these things aren't mutually exclusive.
By your strange logic, all those hundreds of thousands of people who play and the millions who follow soccer on tv and the internet in Australia do it purley out of a sense of inferiority, which is pretty obviously a load of rubbish.
If you don't like soccer, fine, but maybe just accept that loads of your fellow Aussies don't agree with you.
I myself think AFL is a boring sport, but I don't care that lot's of other people enjoy it. It doesn't threaten me, the way soccer seems ot threaten some people.
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You misunderstand Jono - I have a positive view of soccer. I just don't think it's as good as Australian football and I don't see any reason why the majority of other Australians should either, nor any evidence that they ever will.
You're wrong if you think that the soccer-bores (not the Socceroos!) haven't been pushing the notion of an inevitable take-over for 40 years - the rhetoric hasn't changed one bit.
As you say, enjoying these sports is not mutually exclusive, and I've never thought that they should be, unlike the soccer-bores - but one thing that won't change is that the big money, big names and big teams in soccer will stay far from Australia, and ManU or Celtic will always have more fans in Melbourne than any contrivance of the A-League. You can live the rest of your life following hyped-up teams playing a hyped-up sport in far-away lands if you wish, but no amount of TV audiences for the EPL or La Liga will translate into dominance in Australia.
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