Pauline Hanson says farewell
Does anyone much care that Pauline Hanson is leaving Australia, and reportedly looking to set up home in Britain? Evidently, the answer is an emphatic "yes". The story caused a flurry of media interest this week both here and at home, and it fast became one of the most popular stories on this very website.
It even brought the promise of a warm welcome from the far-right British National Party, something which it does not normally extend to new arrivals from overseas.
The line taken in much of the coverage was that the woman who once railed against Asian immigration looked set to become an immigrant herself.
It only struck me late this week that some of the overseas interest in her planned departure from Australia might have been predicated on two flawed assumptions: first, that she still has a significant following in Australia; and second, that she is still a significant political figure. Neither, of course, is true. Far from it.
Pauline Hanson has become a figure of fun, a modern-day "reality celebrity", who remains famous for once being famous - many would say infamous. You are more likely to see her on shows like Dancing with the Stars than on serious-minded news or current-affairs programmes, and the fact that the story of her departure came out in Women's Day gives you a sense of the kind of turf she now occupies in the media landscape. She has been relegated to the gossip columns after once demanding space, and consideration, in the opinion pages.
Still, it was not that long ago that she was the most talked-about politician in Australia - just 13 years ago, in fact, when she delivered her explosive maiden speech in parliament. In it, she claimed: "I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians", a statement which got the switchboard of Parliament House in Canberra buzzing, with many admiring callers asking for copies of the speech.
Back then, she was a highly significant political figure, with a highly energized following. Her One Nation party attracted almost one million primary votes in the 1998 federal election, which was more than the Democrats and about the same as the National Party. After the 1998 state election in Queensland, her home state, the party could even boast 11 out of 89 seats in the Queensland assembly, having gained over 20% of the vote.
Her fall, of course, was swift. She served just one term in parliament as the Member for Oxley, and quickly became known as the "Oxleymoron" when her plain-spoken way of speaking veered into inarticulacy. Many Australians can still recall her hapless answer when asked on the current affairs show Sixty Minutes in 1996 if she was xenophobic. 'Please explain,' was her quizzical response. Even if many still liked the message, the messenger herself was well on the way by then to being discredited. It was one of the reasons why Hansonism, if it truly merits that description, proved to be such a fleeting phenomenon.
I have long been intrigued by a simple historical counter-factual, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this. What would have happened if Pauline Hanson had known what was meant by the term "xenophobic", and had not contributed so compellingly to her own demise?
What would have happened had the country not seen her famed "death video", another YouTube favourite, in which she addressed her fellow Australians from beyond the grave in a speech intended for broadcast in the event of her political assassination?
What would have happened if she had continued to be taken seriously, as the then Prime Minister John Howard most certainly did at the time? Rather than censure her or speak out against her, Mr. Howard said in October 1996 that "some of the things she said were an accurate reflection of what people feel". It was a long while before he took her on.
My sense, as I have written before, is that the big post-war story in Australia on the race front is how successfully multi-cultural this country has become without much of a violent backlash. But Pauline Hanson was part of a very different storyline in which an undercurrent of racial intolerance percolated to the surface.
Perhaps the question of whether she lives in Australia or not is largely beside the point. On the political front, she has already left the building.
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~10~RS~)
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Maybe she would have married Barnaby Joyce.
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In view of her fear of "being swamped by Asians" she's in for a real shock when she takes to the streets in some of UK's larger cities, where the population is more heterogeneous. I can see her two years from now becoming disillusioned with her migrant dream of settling in Britain and she will almost certainly yearn a return to Australia. As for which team she will cheer for during the Ashes - I have no doubt!
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"We are currently in danger of being swamped by asians". Pauline Hanson has hit it the nail on the head.Take a walk around Melbourne.
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Not sure that your perception of "popularity" is correct - I just clicked on the story because I had never heard of her and wondered who she was!
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Even if people didn't see the 'death' video or if she knew what 'xenophobic' meant, she still wouldn't have lasted long in Australian politics. The same ignorance, poor judgment and sense of self importance that led her to make the video in the first place would have been her undoing sooner or later. Fortunately for Australia, (not so much for Britain) it was sooner.
Given her intention to migrate to Britain, it appears that as well as being inarticulate, she also lacks a sense of irony.
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I'm sure that the recent publicity BNP has received in Australia has something to do with her choice of a new homeland. Her political views are slightly to the right of Genghis Khan, but her knowledge of politics and human behavior lags far behind. Probably an ideal candidate for BNP.
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She made UK sounds like white supreme state. Pauline, you are in for a shock.
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I'm an Australian living in Hong Kong. When Ms Hanson was at her xenophobic worst, my adopted Chinese son, a genuine computer genius, was looking enthusiastically to Australia for university. After watching the awful Hanson on TV in Hong Kong, and admitting to being terrified by the woman and all she represented, he decided on California instead. America's gain, Australia's loss.
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I'm astonished Pauline Hanson should look to set up home in Britain if she objects to Asian immigration; perhaps she doesn't know what Britain means either?
What is it about the USA that makes immigrants (legal and illegal) generally want to take up American 'cultural values' and become enthusiastic Americans, while immigrants to Britain & Australia seem to retain their original 'cultural values' and are less than enthusiastic about Britishness & Australianess?
I wonder if the perception that "benefits" are available to immigrants to Britain & Australia, whether benefits really are available or not, is very damaging to multiculturalism, more damaging than the belief "they steal our jobs."
Unkind as it is, the disqualification of immigrants for benefits, for say 5 years, might make them more acceptable.
But it is important also to have a vibrant culture, otherwise the 'survival of the fittest' will apply, and like the Normans in 1066, the resulting culture will be a mish mash dominated by immigrants.
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I always laugh when I hear folks talk about 'taking up a nation's cultural values' (usually, the USA is cited); If the 'immigrants' who took over and now run the USA took up the values of those they 'met' when they arrived, they would have taken up the values of the Native Americans. Somehow, I don't think that happened. It could be that I'm just not observant enough. If they had, the first language woudl be Navajo or Arapaho, not English. In Australia, subsititute 'Aborigine' for 'Native American' and the same applies.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
@pragmaticaldo
I'm an immigrant and most of us are disqualified from benefits for 6 years actually. Over this period of time I get to pay the same taxes as you with few of the advantages. Therefore your premise is invalid.
As for this woman joining the BNP isn't that the height of hypocrisy from all sides. She shouldn't be immigrating and as an immigrant isn't she one of the very people the BNP have been campaigning to keep out? Or is it ok because she is white...
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As a pom in Oz I cannot help but wonder if this is really all part of the advertising campaign to help sell her house?
I live in Geelong in Victoria and no-one I know has anything positive to say about her.
"Figure of fun" is a fair description of how most of the people I know seem to describe her
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Given that one of the main commentators/interviewees on the news items was her real estate agent, one cynically wonders whether this was a ploy to advertise the sale of her farm!
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Aren't there grounds for refusing her entry to the UK as someone likely to stir up racial hatred?
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Nick Bryant:
She said "I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians" and you then wrap up by saying "the big post-war story in Australia on the race front is how successfully multi-cultural this country has become without much of a violent backlash" and "Pauline Hanson was part of a very different storyline in which an undercurrent of racial intolerance percolated to the surface."
So she is a racist because she is concerned about her country being "swamped" by a particular group of people? If that's the case and you have no problem with that then where does your "multi-cultural" part come in?
As an American I don't know who this woman is but just going by your words in your article does that make sense?
Is an American being racist against Mexicans because they don't want their country being flooded with millions of illegal immigrants in the first place and in the second place because they don't want their culture and their country's future unity being threaten by a huge influx of one group of people from one other country or region or culture?
I'm sure you know the answer to those questions. But, instead of recognizing and appreciating legitimate concerns and wishes from the actual citizens of the affected countries you get people that are mainly on the left, like most media, trying to dismiss them by simply referring to them as "xenophobic" at best and "racist" at worse. Why?
How can one logically appreciate the viability and importance of a foreign cultures but not appreciate the viability and importance of their own culture, especially in their own country?! It makes no sense!
The fact is, countries like Australia and America are multi-racial, and that's been just fine, but to promote multi-culturalism by definition means going against immigrants integrating into Australian and American culture and by definition it is an attack on the long existing and well established cultures of both countries.
Promoting other cultures as somehow being just as important as the unifying culture of the host country is insanity. That's the last thing you do if you want a viable, enduring and united country.
Promoting multi-racial is just fine, or having an immigration policy that takes a varied sample of the world's population but promoting multi-culturalism is a recipe for disaster that will likely lead to tensions, violence, civil war and Balkinization of the countries involved.
As an American it isn't my business what Australia's immigration policies are so consider that when you read my comments so it doesn't appear as if I am saying Australia should be doing this or that. That's for Australians *alone* to decide.
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pragmaticaldo wrote:
"What is it about the USA that makes immigrants (legal and illegal) generally want to take up American 'cultural values' and become enthusiastic Americans, while immigrants to Britain & Australia seem to retain their original 'cultural values' and are less than enthusiastic about Britishness & Australianess?"
I'm an older American and I can tell you for sure it isn't nearly so much that way anymore with so many millions of so-called "Latinos," mainly from Mexico, being allowed to come and work here illegally. Then you got left wing politicians catering to them for their usual misguided and self-centered reasons and those on the right tolerating them as a source of cheap labor.
The media, mostly on the left, but also on the right, and corporate America will also cater to them by providing products and services to them in their own language and by even promoting their culture.
This isn't how America used to be. Immigrants came to America and were expected to eventually learn to speak English and were left to their own devices to do so. Today America makes it easier and easier to prevent that from happening. At the rate that it is going I predict that you will see tensions rise to such a degree that it will become violent and may ultimately lead to a civil war. I think the situation is that bad.
When you have hundreds of thousands of so-called illegal and legal "Latinos" demonstrating against America enforcing immigration laws by wavy Mexican flags then you know things are bad. When you have American politicians pandering to racist "Latino" organizations like La Raza, which means The Race in Spanish) then you know things are bad. When you have America's government financed PBS TV station broadcasting a dedicated "Latino" channel in Spanish then you know things are bad.
And before anyone calls me a racist of xenophobic I'll tell you that I am married to a Mexican born women that is a legal American citizen and I can also speak fluent Spanish. I am also in favor of a multi-racial immigration policy. The last thing I am xenophobic or racist. As I respect the cultural and territorial integrity of other countries I expect the people of other countries to do the same towards my country. That isn't much to ask for. No one should be labeled as xenophobic or racist just because they are concerned for their country in such a way.
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It's due to this kind of unnecessary media hype people like her get the publicity they don't deserve.
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"as an immigrant isn't she one of the very people the BNP have been campaigning to keep out? Or is it ok because she is white..."
Yes. The BNP are as colour conscious as they are odious. She will fit right in there being the right colour. Better than she will fit in the rest of Britain. I for one cannot wait to see her face when she wanders around London, Leicester, Leeds,...... Going to be a hoot. ^^
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AllenT2
I think your argument about the fundamental (or at least what seems to be fundamental) contradiction between multiculturalism and integration is a good one. And I think this is the very issue that several "multicultural" societies are struggling with - what does it mean to be a multicultural society. From what I know (which may or may not be right) I think several societies are now moving away from the "melting pot" towards the "mosaic". I agree, however, that a society cannot be entirely a mosaic. However, I think the paranoia about this is unwarranted. Most often, at least in my experience, migrants want to straddle a line somewhere between complete integration and complete separation. From what I have seen (having lived in Australia and the UK) what this means for a society is that its collective personality is renegotiated. I don't think this means that the original personality (read Anglo-Saxon-ness) is lost. Nor is immigration the only factor that forces societies to renegotiate their personalities.
I think this process of review and renegotiation is often traumatic, especially since it first requires a society to define itself and its values. This is a particularly difficult thing for societies like Australia and the UK where immigrants, at least today, are very much a part of our identity. (Of course, here I am speaking of the big cities but which are nonetheless the economic and cultural centres in the respective countries).
So in sum, I agree with you that there needs to be a frank, honest, open discussion about the new trend of this century: global migration. However, I think approaching this discussion with an overwhelming paranoia and defensiveness is counter-productive; for all interested parties.
On a more personal note, I think the current period of time in Australian history is very exciting for me as an Australian. Walking the streets of Sydney, I can't help but be filled with excited optimism about the new Australia. It does make me sad that Pauline Hanson and her supporters - and there are in fact several - do not sure this excitement.
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Ok, so she's not too bright, no one takes her seriously, absolutely BOMBS interviews, but is looking for a change of scenery after resigning her last position... Bring her over here to the good old US of A, we'll put her on TV with Katie Couric where she can explain how she can see Russia from her window, and she'll have a future in politics yet!
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Ade Daramy wrote:
"I always laugh when I hear folks talk about 'taking up a nation's cultural values' (usually, the USA is cited); If the 'immigrants' who took over and now run the USA took up the values of those they 'met' when they arrived, they would have taken up the values of the Native Americans. Somehow, I don't think that happened. It could be that I'm just not observant enough. If they had, the first language woudl be Navajo or Arapaho, not English. In Australia, subsititute 'Aborigine' for 'Native American' and the same applies."
As an American of American Indian descent let me respond to your remarks.
First off, there were, and are, many different American Indian tribes with many different cultural backgrounds. We were never some kind of unified culture or a "nation." The only widespread unity came when America, the country, the "nation," was formed. Ironically, a condition that many anti-Americans amusingly like to use against white Americans as an example of our so-called destruction.
They will also, and predictably, refer to us American Indians as the "true Americans" or as "Native Americans," as you have, while somehow not realizing that we could not have been Americans when there was no such thing as America as a concept, or name, or country, and while somehow applying new meanings to the words "American" and "native," that by definition means that anyone born in the country America is a "Native American." That includes my white, black, or whatever, fellow native Americans.
So please, with all do respect, don't pander to me and other Americans of American Indian descent while insulting my other fellow Americans by somehow trying to take away their nationality, their nativeness and by trying to lay some kind of bizarre guilt trip on them for some wrongs that occurred during the process of colonization. Wrongs that actually occurred on both sides and that no one living today, or in any recent generations, had anything to do with.
And a little for for thought, even if you go by the highest estimated number of Indians in the lands that were to ultimately become the country of America you would have the vast majority of the territories within those lands being unoccupied. Of course that doesn't paint a convenient picture of White Europeans simply coming over and wiping out the noble, wise and peaceful Indians that anti-Americans today like to try and use against Americans that are not of Indian descent, does it?
Then again, neither does the fact that thousands of innocent and peaceful settlers, including women and children, were slaughtered in the most horrific ways for simply passing through the territories of many Indian tribes.
And neither does the fact that Indian tribes were slaughtering each other and conquering each others territories long before the white man showed up. Tribes that also practiced human sacrifices and cannibalism.
Anti-Americans that make the kind of remarks you have just can't get it through their heads and can not accept that the vast majority of Americans, including Americans Indians, are proud of their country, proud of their American culture and certainly proud to be American.
Like it or not, we are a strong and unified nation, a nation with laws and ways that should be respected by foreigners in the same way you feel the ways of past Indian tribes should have been respected by settlers back then.
And, again, with respect, if you knew America as well as you think you do, you would know that America took up much of the "cultural values" of our many different Indians tribes even from the beginning. It is no coincidence that half of our state names are of Indian origin, to include many of our cities, counties, roads, lakes, rivers, etc, etc. Our second biggest national holiday pays homage to Indians of the past. I could on and on.
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Just a thought - perhaps when she says "Asians", she doesn't mean South Asians (e.g. people of Pakistani, Indian, Bangaldeshi descent), but East Asians (like Chinese, Vietnamese, Filipinos, etc), who are more the norm in Australia? So maybe her prejudice only extends to "Asians" that she's familiar with - the ones in the UK don't count!
I agree though, it's difficult to see Ms Hanson being very happy in London, Birmingham, Leicester, Manchester, or many other urban areas in Britain. Logic and reason are obviously not her strong points (no news there).
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I'd call her the Australian-Palin but the timeframe doesn't work. Good to know America isn't alone.
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AllenT2
I think, in a way, Ade Daramy's comment was meant in a different spirit to how you have taken it.
As an Australian, I always shake my head at white Australia complaining about immigrants, particularly within the scope of the much maligned "boat people". I'm a white Australian with heritage going way back to convict settlement, but I don't see that I have any right to complain about immigrants. We're all of migrant stock, with the exception of the Aboriginal people who inhabited the land for 40,000-60,000 years before white settlement... and I guess, even then, if you go further back it is theorised by historians that Australian Aborigines also may have originally arrived by boat. We are all boat people, just some have arrived in chains, some by free will, and some out of pure desperation in escaping from somewhere else. I don't feel necessarily guilty about the past because it is in the past, and people barging in and taking over other lands was all the rage back then, and there's essentially nothing I can do about it. I did agree with the Prime Minister giving an apology to the Aboriginal people for wrongs done to them, because it had never been done and deserved to be recognised, so that we could pave the way to a common future.
Ade Daramy's comment does fall down slightly in the fact that neither American Indians nor Aboriginal Australians were collective 'nations' of people, but rather separate tribes. I have had friends from New Zealand ask me why Australia doesn't have a part of its national anthem in 'Aboriginal' in the same way that they have a part of their anthem in Maori... because they hadn't realised that each tribe had its own language, so there is no real fair way of doing that.
But I think the essential point was more the hypocrisy of anyone from white Australia complaining about migrants coming in and influencing the culture of Australia to morph into something else... when that has always been the way it has been, right from when their ancestors settled here. And indeed, all in all, the country is so much richer for it.
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When people from the UK went to Australia and refused to integrate into Australian society they were the objects of ridicule and called "whinging poms". No one had a problem with this. It was taken as read that the immigrants had to integrate into Australian society.
However when the same standards are applied to non-Europeans moving to Australia then Australians are expected to keep quiet about non-integration or be considered racist.
And that boys and girls is how multiculturalism works.
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pragmaticaldo wrote:
"What is it about the USA that makes immigrants (legal and illegal) generally want to take up American 'cultural values' and become enthusiastic Americans, while immigrants to Britain & Australia seem to retain their original 'cultural values' and are less than enthusiastic about Britishness & Australianess?"
I will tell you why. I am naturalised US citizen born in the UK. (I am black by the way). One thing that always struck me living here is how the people over here (white/black/asian etc) embraced me as an American even as a green card holder and once I got the citizenship I was one of them. This in contrast to the land of my birth (UK born and raised) always wanted to know if I was West Indian descent or African. What does it matter I am British. The official forms always seemed to remind you that you are not really English. I heard a lot of the same thing from people from other ethnic minorities. This could be very well the reason why the US has been successful. However there seems to be a change with the increase in the Latino population with a large number coming from Mexico. There is a perception that they do not assimilate totally into the culture like other immigrants. Whether this is right or wrong is up for debate.
By the way before anyone takes this the wrong way I want to emphasise the statement I made has nothing to do with racism but are just my perceptions as a black man born in the UK and emigrated to the States. I have encountered racism in both countries as well as have great experiences in both nations.
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Am I right in thinking that unless Ms Hanson has a British passport she can be refused entry to the country despite her ancestry? I heard that all non British passport holders (even EU citizens) are subject to immigration control and can be denied entry as what happened to the Dutch mp Geert Wilders.
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Probably what the aborigines thought all those years ago, when the came across the whites. The Asians atleast make a substantial contribution to the cultural, social and economic landscape of Australia, instead of trying to wipe out the indigenous population, which is what the English did for decades.
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I am married to an Australian. We feel, looking at both sides of the world politically that this is wrong.If she comes here, she is likely to cause more of a furore than the one she leaves behind. Whilst I am no fan of the continued immigration and so called 'ethnic integration' policies of the EU including the current government attempts to diversify the UK, Ms Hanson's presence in the UK is going to stir up a heck of a hornets nest,the likes of which we have not seen for a very long time. Do we need this? No!
Since the Immigration and Borders Control have the powers to stop people who are likely to cause public disturbance and who are not conducive to the common good, this woman right now, should be top of their list to say no to if she applies for a visa.
Whether she is right or wrong in her views, there is no place for a has been politician who has failed to get her way in her own country to come over here and start a temper tantrum all over again!
Ms Hanson is not wanted or needed here!
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Nothing is more distressing to a citizen than to see who has been elected to govern. And we wonder why things are the way they are.
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I have always like Australians because of their refreshing no BS attitude call it straight. You sound just like a stuck up pom " Oh la she didn't understand xenophobic " Hint working class idiot - Chuckle chuckle " I guarantee you bring that word up in the US and you will get 50 different answers and that's without the lawyers in the room. Say that in Txs and you will get decked. Nick you are a great writer but you are starting to make Oz sound like Berkley California -- Pontification and Australians is a total oxymoron - Cheers mate
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#27 NULL_ARC makes an important point when he says "I am naturalised US citizen born in the UK. (I am black by the way). One thing that always struck me living here is how the people over here (white/black/asian etc) embraced me as an American even as a green card holder and once I got the citizenship I was one of them. This in contrast to the land of my birth (UK born and raised) always wanted to know if I was West Indian descent or African."
I was born in Italy, emigrated to Britain, have lived in Australia, and am living in the USA currently. Being white, my own experience is rather different. It seems to me that until about 50 years ago, Italy, Britain and probably Australia were racially and culturally homogenous in a way the USA was not and perhaps still is not, and where there is a perception that immigration does not threaten homogeneity, there is negligible outcry against it, but when racial or cultural homogeneity is threatened, as in Britain, Australia and Italy, then rightly or wrongly perception changes and hostility develops.
Historically, until relatively recently, immigrants to the USA (legal or not) were embraced as Americans because this advantaged all concerned, but now, even the much looser concept of American homogeneity is being threatened by the sheer number of Hispanic immigrants arriving in a worsening economy. Little wonder many 'established' Americans complain about it, for sharing even a mild form of the native American experience is discomforting.!
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I was born in Australia and live in America, as in all democracies an individual has the right to free speech, we may not agree with someone but they have the right to express his or her viewpoint. Some people are xenophobic, people are often afraid of people and cultures different from their own. Many Asians from what I have experienced are really interested in education and work hard. You only have to see the students at the universities many are Asian. I know that England is a democratic nation with a large Asian population. An individual cannot run away from the world and the various cultures which make everyone unique and the truth is that when a person runs away they take themselves with them.
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It cant be that bad in the UK if somebody wants to migrate here to get away from Asian migration to OZ. Her arrival in the Uk may put of some of the UK citizans who want to get away from being overun by Asians here migrating to OZ,it seems there is nowhere to run.
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xe·no·pho·bic
Someone who votes Republican in California
Someone who does not vote Republican in Texas
A Frenchman in McDonalds
Someone who has not seen Avatar yet
A Chinese politician with the Dalai Lama
A collector of Mondrian
Someone who hates ATT
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xe·no·pho·bic
To add
A Canadian watching the American Olympic Gold medal totals in Vancouver
An ice hockey player watching Cricket
Okay now you are on your own ( great treble pun 50 points )
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Where are we going now with this blog
Sadgit
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Pauline Hansen's future emigration is hardly news.
John Howard probably thought that Hansen would be a "useful idiot",he was partly correct.The real damage was done to Australia's image when Asians interpreted Hansen's politics in terms of their own countries' often lethal "ethnic tensions". The real culprits in this farce were hack journalists(more useful idiots) who bored with Oz politics, decided to manufacture a crisis.
The last straw occurred when I heard a Japanese(of all people) academic advise Australians not to discriminate against Asian immigrants.
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She is not the sharpest tool in the shed, had some crazy economic policies (print mnore money) and when this was realised, her popularity went into freefall. Except for the media who continued to see her as good copy
I agree with #39, the real damage was to Australia's image in the Asia Pacific neighbourhood. That has been an historic challenge for Australia - to marry its European history with its Asia Pacific geography. Her dog whistle politics reminded the neighbours of the old White Australia Policy (WAP) days and modern Australia was punished accordingly, sometimes cynically by wily Asian politicians with long memories
Without being an apologist for WAP, it is often taken out of context of race attitudes elsewhere of the era. Both Canada and NZ have offered apologies for poll taxes on Asian immigrants until the 1930s/1940s meant to restrict entry of those immigrants.
The US maintained its 1920s Emergency Quota and National Origins Acts into the 1960s which restricted entry not just from the Asia Pacific and Subcontinent but also Southern Europe (Italians mainly) and Eastern Europe, including East European Jews.
Britain introduced Immigration Acts in the 1960s/1970s aimed at curbing entry from the Black Commonwealth and allowing in recent descendants from the white dominions
Asia has had its own hangups about racial superiority and mixed race unions. Imperial Japan's racial perspective on China over the 1930s/1940s wasn't exactly friendly.
I think she resurrected a lot of the old feelings about pre 1960s Australia being a European enclave in the Asia Pacific
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I don't understand y everyone fears mixed cultures. We are an evolving species and change is the only way we can move forward. Besides mankind has been intermingling since many 100 yrs. If Pauline Hanson has a problem with being swamped by the 'asians', what justification does she have of the british (perhaps her direct ancestors) forcibly and often brutally swamping the land of the aborigines... Is that all fair in her world... To all those who think asians and all the sundry non - white cultures, do nothing better than 'swamp' 'white' countries, all i have to say is wake up and live with the times. Just go and have a look around ur house, u will realise, if not for asian countries, u might not survive. Half d stuff u own is made in asia. So rather than feel threatened by the asians, It would be better for all of u to start respecting, their ingenuity, hard work, and will to move forward......
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There are some strange comments here. As an Australian ex-Pom, I listen, read and hear quite a few voices on this subject of Asians Migrating.
I also share and have views of my own. I would also like to hear our Indigenous voices on cramming our country with certain Asians.
Hanson's downfall was triggered mainly by her remarks on our own Indigenous Aborigines.
They of all people are owed as much assistance-aid-help-consideration, call it what you will, as we can muster.
Unfortunately, there are few people here with the correct philanthropic minds.
For example: The houses built for 'Bush' Aborigines all have rectangular rooms. 100 years ago I doubt if 90% of them knew what a 'rectangle was! Nature has no rectangles.
I believe there should be an international Architectural competition of designs that Aborinese should like to live in.
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Xenophobia seems to exist because people (en masse or media manipulated) choose to believe a fact or facts about a race that is a microcosm blown up out of proportion.
Its about integration. A previous commentator said he felt there was no us and them when in the US. I tend to agree. I have felt like that about Australia. The difference between cultures is less marked because in Australia you are Australian first, then your ethinicity. Whereas here, in the UK you are your ethnicity first and not British.We have to put down our ethnic details and where we were born on everything, we are encouraged to be proud of who we are and this has now gone too far. I dont think anyone really gives a hoot in my local town hall about where I was born or what colour my parents are, just as long as I pay my council tax. Frankly I consider such questions to be a breach of my human rights, but the truth is, that alas whilst Hanson is right,that we should be concerned she is wrong about the intrinsic reason WHY she is right.
A lack of integration on the part of the migrants.
Asian migration in Australia has never been a real cultural problem. Walking round China Town and Paddy's markets you hear a lot of Australian accents that are Asian.
The newer migrants, the ones who want their culture/rules/faith to take precedence over that of their host countries, they are the ones who are causing the xenophobia to feed unchecked.
Here in the UK, our xenophobia has become a catch 22 situation.
Migrants faced with hostility do not want to integrate, and indigenous people don't want it because they don't understand the culture/faith of these newcomers, who don't want to share or be part of the modern cultural mix here because they don't understand it.
What we need in the UK, is less of rhetoric from groups such as the BNP and the recent Islamic group who got banned, and certainly nothing from Ms Hanson to stir the pot, but more community based work from the ground up to integrate groups and cultures, and that starts with us, indigenous Brits as well as Muslims and Europeans. I have no idea how to make that work, but lets get it right, and why we are afraid of the 'swarming take over' of other cultures, once we can have a sensible debate, not narrow minded bigoted right wing debate without the gutter press blowing everything out of proportion so that the chattering classes only see the headlines, then just maybe we can start to see and understand the impact and truth in all this. However Ms Hanson coming here, is pot calling the kettle black, because she immediately puts herself into the catagory of which she so hates,that of immigrant!
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She has British citizenship and will be welcomed. She's far more deserving and entitled to be here than many others.
Good luck to her.
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It is wise of Pauline Hanson to visit the South Island, New Zealand first; I believe New Zealand will be her final choice.
I have visited UK twice in the last 10 years; my last visit in 2007 shocked me! In 1967-69 I lived in Belsize Park, a beautiful road of Georgian houses many of which house Council tenants. Now since 'Maggie Thatcher' sold them to the Private sector, very rich landlords own them and let them to Indian families. My friend whom I stayed with is one of the 20% white folks in the area!
Like road accident spots, it takes an awful long time before somebody speaks up about it and DOES something.
Lord Carey, for people not familiar with the UK, was previously the Arch-Bishop of Canterbury, the Head of the Anglican Church in the UK. For him, now as Lord Carey from the Upper House of UK politics, to broach this subject shows it is at crisis point. Lord Carey said immigration angered many people and could lead to violence, and that the system had to focus more on maintaining "values".
The Balanced Migration Group - made up of 20 parliamentarians, including Lord Carey, former Commons Speaker Baroness Boothroyd, five Labour MPs and 10 Conservative MPs - is backing a campaign calling for curbs on immigration.
This also concerns Australia’s Immigration Policies!
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Pauline Hanson made a mess of things. Perhaps 80% of her views were wrong.
However somebody like her would certainly make waves now!
Wake up Australia, there are Asians and Asians.
From the BBC world news online. Quote:
"A spokesman said a review of student visas had been ordered in November. In 2008/9, about 240,000 student visas were issued by the UK.
News of the new measures comes a week after student visa applications from Nepal, northern India and Bangladesh were suspended amid a big rise in cases."
"Unscrupulous agents offering student visas as a way of settling in the United Kingdom are not uncommon.(a typical British understatement!) The British High Commissioner in Delhi, Sir Richard Stag, said abuse of the system would not be allowed to happen."
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I do not hate Indians! I am worried. When did you last see a local Indian chatting over a beer with a non-Indian Aussie? Perhaps other than in Melbourne.
My comment on India:
India is a fascinating ancient civilisation with Social systems in places, unknown anywhere else in the World. “The Caste System” in particular.
If China had introduced such a system in 1945 it would have been condemned by the whole World!
Looking at India in the news and internet, it is lauded as the “Biggest Democracy” in the World.
It has the greatest gap between the rich and the poor of any Country, Democratic or otherwise, in the World.
Its people cannot and do not have the same Ethics or Morals of most Western or Australia citizens.
Example: It is believed most Indians who study Medicine abroad do not take their skills back to help their fellow Indians; they stay to earn fat wages in the country where they studied.
Do our Politicians really know what they are doing?
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pragmaticaldo wrote:
"Historically, until relatively recently, immigrants to the USA (legal or not) were embraced as Americans because this advantaged all concerned, but now, even the much looser concept of American homogeneity is being threatened by the sheer number of Hispanic immigrants arriving in a worsening economy. Little wonder many 'established' Americans complain about it, for sharing even a mild form of the native American experience is discomforting.!"
Read my post #22.
First off, your remarks are offensive. I am an American of American Indian descent so I would ask you to please not use the term "native American" to the exclusion of any other American that is not American Indian but who is also a native. Doing so is by definition racist! It is also by definition incorrect for anyone born in America is a native American!
With respect, you have the typical view of a European with anti-American sentiment that I described in my previous post. It appears you have a bit of a chip on your shoulders towards Americans that are in your word "established," which I believe you are quoting in a derogatory way because I used it in my first post on this topic.
Even though at some level it bothers you, why I don't know, America began establishing its culture well before the country was even officially formed and even much further back than that when you consider the integration of much of the culture of Indian tribes.
America in its past had an immigration policy that was in many ways even tougher now where many medical conditions alone kept immigrants out of the country. Ever heard of Ellis Island? America also has historically taken in immigrants from a well varied pool of the world's countries and cultures. Such people were expected to learn the language of the country and to integrate to a reasonable and functional degree. They were also left to their own devices to do so, and they did so.
Here we are today and in the country's history I know of no other period where you have had so many people of just one country alone, Mexico, coming into the country in such a relatively short amount of time. Even putting aside the fact that most came here illegally we Americans see that as a threat, and rightly so, especially when you have so many self-centered politicians, racist Latino organizations and corporations pandering to them in a way that was never done in the history of this country!
You need to learn about the history of the country you have now chosen to reside in before you make the mistake of making the same kind of remarks because, and I mean this respectfully, you have no idea what you are talking about.
And as a new immigrant to America I would ask you to please show some respect to the people of this country. That shouldn't be too much to ask for.
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NULL_ARC wrote:
'I will tell you why. I am naturalised US citizen born in the UK. (I am black by the way). One thing that always struck me living here is how the people over here (white/black/asian etc) embraced me as an American even as a green card holder and once I got the citizenship I was one of them. This in contrast to the land of my birth (UK born and raised) always wanted to know if I was West Indian descent or African. What does it matter I am British. The official forms always seemed to remind you that you are not really English. I heard a lot of the same thing from people from other ethnic minorities. This could be very well the reason why the US has been successful. However there seems to be a change with the increase in the Latino population with a large number coming from Mexico. There is a perception that they do not assimilate totally into the culture like other immigrants. Whether this is right or wrong is up for debate."
Of course it is "right."
We have tens of millions of Americans with ancestors from many countries from all around the world and yet you don't see the embracing of a foreign language into this country, in the past and now, as you do with Spanish.
You don't see Italian or German or Swedish, etc, etc, language labels on food products, or services being provided in those languages, do you? Of course you don't. Because previous immigrants were expected to integrate into American culture and to do that they first learned English.
The politicians, media, and corporations that pander to this largely illegal segment of immigrants into the country for their own selfish reasons are laying the groundwork for the destruction of America.
You can not have an enduring, a viable and a united country by first introducing into the country large numbers of people from one culture and then by pandering to and promoting that culture alongside the culture of your own country!
Thank you for sharing your post because you are right, Americans do embrace legal immigrants that come here with a love, respect and a appreciation for the country. Just don't hesitate to speak your mind and the truth just because you are afraid others will see you as being xenophobic or racist.
I've been called anti-Mexican before and then I call my wife over(born in Mexico) and explain to her and we both laugh. I've been accused of being against people who speak Spanish by so-called Latinos who can't even speak Spanish themselves. I usually respond back to them in fluent Spanish just for the embarrassed and confused look on their face. Of course they have no clue what I am saying.
Some people just can't see the sense and reason in things.
Welcome to America.
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Shaunie Babes wrote:
"When people from the UK went to Australia and refused to integrate into Australian society they were the objects of ridicule and called "whinging poms". No one had a problem with this. It was taken as read that the immigrants had to integrate into Australian society.
However when the same standards are applied to non-Europeans moving to Australia then Australians are expected to keep quiet about non-integration or be considered racist.
And that boys and girls is how multiculturalism works."
Exactly!
Good post.
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Let's keep to the topic,it's Pauline Hansen and Oz attitudes to immigration,not America.
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You've gotta love her. She's the Aussie Sarah Palin - 10 years before Sarah. Let's hope she gets into the UK and reports on what she finds. If she thought Australia was swamped by Asians I hope she ends up in Leeds or somewhere like that. What is actually wrong with people objecting to being overrun with Asians, South Americans, Africans, or even Whites, for that matter? I'd love for Pauline to decide to emigrate to Pakistan, and to maintain and promote her Aussie values, and see how the locals cope with that.
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Treaclebeak wrote:
"Let's keep to the topic,it's Pauline Hansen and Oz attitudes to immigration,not America."
The American story as it relates to this story on Australia is certainly on "topic." The same concern that many Australians express for *their country* is the same that many Americans express for their country. Unfortunately, when patriotic people of either country express those concerns they are often labeled as xenophobic or racist by left wing media who for bizarre reasons often give preference to other cultures over their own.
They do so to the extent that they are oblivious to the fact that they are the main contributors to an environment where actual xenophobia and racism thrives!
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Jak S wrote:
"I'd love for Pauline to decide to emigrate to Pakistan, and to maintain and promote her Aussie values, and see how the locals cope with that."
So you are OK with the people of Pakistan being defensive or protective of their culture but she can not be when it comes to hers??
How do you reconcile such a contradiction?
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The real story of post-war Australia is how it became multi-cultural before it had even built a culture of our own. I believe this was a failure. There is more to life than lifestyle. Identity is crucial. And yet the mainstream became another tribe called 'Anglo-Celtic' and identity-less people like me now look with envy at authenticly established cultures.
And Hanson was not a right-winger so much as a populist - recall her economic policies, etc. Australia got off lightly with just her when we consider the possibilities. I believe she had a heart - eg, remember her calls for prison reform after her experience in gaol?
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There's a huge difference between influencing a culture and "swamping" it out - there seems to be a false assumption that being "swamped by immigrants" leads to ones own culture being pushed aside but this just isn't true.
If anything, the "western culture" has been far more pervasive on other nations. A few messages allude to the Asian populace here in the UK yet the British Empire arguably "swamped" the Indian subcontinent at the time of the British Raj (if not numerically, certainly by an attempted imposition of British culture at the time). Despite the resultant influences and legacy, few would argue that the culture of the Indian subcontinent has been lost - especially when folks coming from that same region are being held up as examples of a foreign culture that doesn't integrate!
The only time a culture could arguably be said to have been quashed is when the associated civilisation has died out (via natural causes or conquest etc.). It would be disingenuous to the point of stupidity to try and assert that this is the case for the first world countries being mentioned in this thread.
If anything, immigrants having their own communities and tv channels etc. are a symptom of cultural separation, not cultural domination.
Illegal immigration raises some very serious issues but the whole "culture-at-risk" argument is not supported by any rigorous evidence, is falsified by observation and is nothing more than a straw man argument.
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Hanson is not allowed, immigrants are allowed to defend their own cultures, languages and identity in their home countries; and in countries where they immigrated to. In contast to what the reporter writes, the history of Australia shows all sorts of racism such as that of the English who colonised Australia and considering themselves superior to the Irish; and later discriminated against Poles, Italians and Greeks, the aborigines were gruesomely murdered and are still discriminated against; and recentelijk two Indian students were murdered 'from racist motives'.
Why it is the writer's illusion that 'all is well in multicultural Australia'. And find it a pity to visit Adelaide that I no longer recognise as tyical for Aussie/English culture. Besides, Australia is vulnerable as an island continent in the middle of Asian countries what means that indeed Australia could be invaded and taken over by Indonesia, by China; and what Japan previously did 'up north' Darwin. Given Japan the chance to conquer all of Australia that would indeed have been 'flooded by Asians', the same Japanese Asians who insist on their own country and culture as 'untouchably ours'.
As does for instance Qatar where not one guest labourer can get the Qatarese nationality because 'we Qatarese want to keep our identity and culture in tact'.
I regret that England no longer exists, that I go there and find myself confronted with world-cultures that cover-up England to the degree that when I visit the 'very English Cottswold' because I relish English culture, instead find myself served by Pakistanis/whoever everywhere that takes away from my enjoyment of visiting ENGLAND; as it does when I shop in London and am confronted with a store where everybody is Pakistani; and arrive on Heathrow think I have landed in Pakistan....
Everthing is presented too one-sided; and after all the countries were immigrants come from are not facing mass-imigration of foreign cultures and religion'/s, are not known for tolerance towards their own minorities such as the Chinese in China, Chinese in Nepal, Chinese in Tibet, in Pakistan Christiand are persecuted to murdered and other minorities have no right to exist, in Somalia, in Iran .....
Mass immigration is dangerous, invites ethnic, race and religeous conflicts as we see because of immigration in the U.K., in all of Europe; and as happens in other countries over centuries that should have served UK/EU as bad examples to follow.
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Much as I dislike her views, it will personally do her good to be an immigrant for a while. She'll discover that it's not a very pleasant experience and hopefully she will see things differently when she goes back to Australia as she no doubt ultimately will.
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The most interesting thing about Hanson was the way the press reacted towards her.
It speaks volumes about the way the political economy of the mass media works in Australia.
This blog entry is yet another hack job assassination piece on an idiot politician. Not that I care, because I have no affection or respect for Hanson, but I am fascinated by the apparent possibility that Hanson has a monopoly on idiocy in Australian politics.
The way Hanson was treated by the corporate mainstream media was that she was relentlessly ridiculed. And it was absolutely relentless. Yes, she was arguably ridiculous. But is she the only politician who might be described or portrayed as ridiculous? Why do we never read about how ridiculous ALP or liberal party politicians are? Why do the corporate mainstream media never relentlessly hound an ALP or liberal party politician, to the point where it becomes a national sport for journalists?
Is it because the main two parties have a truly vast amount of classified advertising to grant to the mainstream media corporations, not to mention real favours to offer to government employees in the state owned media?
Hanson was a fool, but the most important thing about her was the lesson about what happens to anyone outside the established two party system, if they dare to make a political bid in Australia. They will be ridiculed, defamed and slandered by self righteous journalists who are finally, for the first time in their careers, given a green light to openly criticize a politician.
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DvdH wrote:
"Much as I dislike her views, it will personally do her good to be an immigrant for a while. She'll discover that it's not a very pleasant experience and hopefully she will see things differently when she goes back to Australia as she no doubt ultimately will."
Where do you expect the "very unpleasant" part as an "immigrant" to come in? I don't see any shortages of immigrants that are trying to make their way into the UK just as I don't think it has a problem with many of them leaving. Looks pleasant enough for them.
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fnordleblanket wrote:
"If anything, immigrants having their own communities and tv channels etc. are a symptom of cultural separation, not cultural domination.
Illegal immigration raises some very serious issues but the whole "culture-at-risk" argument is not supported by any rigorous evidence, is falsified by observation and is nothing more than a straw man argument."
Apparently you don't live in America where the highest estimated numbers of illegals from just one other country, Mexico, is around the same as the whole population of Australia.
Apparently you don't live in a country where corporations are now catering to an entirely so-called "Latino" segment of the market by offering products and services in a foreign language (Spanish) as if it were somehow an official language.
Apparently you don't live in America where politicians pander to racist "Latino" organizations like La Raza, which translated means The Race, (the "Latino race") that only promotes "Latino" culture and the Spanish language over American culture and English.
Apparently you don't live in a country where at least hundreds of thousands of illegals marched on American streets with their criminal supporters and instigators waving the Mexican flag in protest to America discussing doing something about the invasion from the south.
And apparently you don't live in a country where when discussions are brought up about officially designating English as the official language (yes surprisingly it never was on the federal level) you have a huge outcry and threats of legal action from so-called Latinos, legal or illegal, and their racist and criminal supporters.
That's America today and that could happen to Australia too!
Learn from America's mistake Australia. Hopefully it isn't too late for either country.
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Pauleen Hanson's belief was that Australia should have been a place primarily of white Anglo-Saxon, and Europeans who were willing to speak English.
She is ignorant and she is a racist.
She is ignorant, because her primary concern was the South Asians, particularly Japanese, she saw when she visited Brisbane and the Gold Coast. When it was pointed out to her that many of the people she was referring to were actually Japanese, and south east Asian students, she rubbished the commentator. Other commentators tried to explain to her that these students were bringing in billions of dollars to our country, she argued we had other means of bringing in money other than Asians.
When on a walk about with a camera team, she was confronted by two aboriginal youths who claimed she knew nothing about aboriginality. She argued all Australians who had a heritage, were entitled to be called native. The youths continued their argument and the camera was turned off. Later we heard Pauleen had reported the two for spitting at her, and they were charged.
Later, when in jail, she was approached by a number of aboriginal women who explained their point of view.
After leaving jail, she claimed she had got it wrong about aboriginal people.
Pauleen epitomises the 'pommy' Aussie. Though she was born in Australia, as was at least one of her parents, she believes Australia is and will always be, British.
She was originally a member of the Liberal Party, whose founder was Robert Menzies. He was a staunch Monarchist, supporter of the white Australia policy, and after his stint as Prime Minister, lived the remaining years of his life in England, where he received the Order of the Garter for his services to Britain.
Pauleen is simply following Menzies.
However, as a number of commentators have stated above, she has no idea of the modern Britain. She still has a 'picket fence, thatched cottage' image of England, mostly from the Earling Studios motion pictures version of the 50's.
I don't know if she will be going to Britain, or if she will be accepted, but I am sure it will be just one more disappointment for a person that should have stayed in her fish and chip shop in Ipswich, and who should have left politics alone.
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Well, at least she is practicing what she preached and going back to where she "belongs". I mean, the indigenous population might have felt swamped by white people.
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Pauline Hanson is welcome in Britain, but I fear she'll be shocked, and disappointed in equal measure. Britain and Australia suffer from the same delusion.
I've always had a problem with "multiculturalism". Firstly, it seems to assume without proof that more than one culture can occupy the same landmass without friction or problems arising. It also assumes that said cultures will respect one another. This simply isn't true; at some point, one culture or another will seek dominance (this is more pronounced in a small country). You only have to see the way Muslims behave in Britain, Europe, Australia and - to a lesser degree in the USA - to see that (make no mistake, Americans - CAIR seeks Muslim rule over your great country, by hook or by crook). Indeed, on that example it's interesting to see what effect emboldened Muslims are having on OTHER minorities in Britain, and the majority of Christians who seem to be finding a new voice in direct response to the rise of Islamic fanaticism. The fact is, cultures are defined by their DIFFERENCES, not their commonalities. It is what marks them out from "the others" which ultimately defines them; it is the ultimate "in-group" mentality. It is the unspoken belief, conviction that your "group" is better than theirs.
We always hear our leftwing political leaders (where is the rightwing in Britain now? Even the Tories are becoming "hug a hoodie" spineless lefties) insist that our cultural diversity is our strength. But they see it through rose-tinted spectacles. They don't wish to see the ghettos. They don't wish to see the "no-go" areas for certain ethnic groups. They don't wish to see the "white flight" that is happening in particular areas. They don't wish to see the parts of the country that have essentially become havens for the Fifth Columnists in our midst, culminating in 7/7 and 'rivers of blood' in Tavistock Square (a very proud moment in British history). They don't want to acknowledge the fact that thanks to their insane immigration policies, this country has effectively become an exporter of terrorism, to such an extent that even the USA is concerned that the UK is "becoming a hub of international terrorism" (read that to mean 'you have too many Muslims') and that they feel it necessary to revise a long-standing Visa policy giving UK citizens priority, because of that fact. In other words, the USA views the UK with as much suspicion now as PAKISTAN. All because of Labour's suicidal immigration policies.
The Marxist experiment known as multiculturalism is and always has been a failure, and the recently leaked report documenting Labour's immigration policy for the last 13 years, proves that it HAS been an experiment conducted on the British people without our consent. Just as the BNP have said many times, this document - now in the hands of MigrationWatch - shows a conscious, concerted effort to flood this country with immigrants in a cynical attempt to garner votes from those groups. TalkSport Radio tried to get NINE LABOUR MPS to talk about this document, and THEY ALL declined. Guilty conscience? If this grotesque experiment - which even some immigrants already here do not like either - has the unintended (or intended?) effect of wiping out, submerging white, British people and their culture, who will care? I fear no-one will. Or maybe Pauline Hanson will...
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Maybe this is the time I take myself and my Oz-born wife to/back to Oz? Permantly?
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I_am_I.
You're entitled to your opinion, just as much as anyone else. Isn't it wonderful to live in a free society? However, I would like to point out some factual inaccuracies in your statement. First of all you claim that the UK's current status as hub of terrorism is a result of Labour's insane immigration policy. Now I'm no demographer, but it seems that the vast majority of people that have either committed terrorist acts in the UK; been convicted of plotting to do so; or been suspected of sympathising with Islamic extremism, have been second or third generation descendants of South Asian migrants from the 50s, 60s and 70s. Now, you are quite free to be anti-immigration, but it seems your rage at the current Labour government is rather misguided in this respect.
Also, I have spent a lot of time studying how communities interact when they share the same "land mass". I have reached no firm conclusions and perhaps you're right, different cultural groups are incapable of sharing the same area! This begs one important question. As, regardless of the causes, different cultural groups ALREADY do share the same land masses throughout the World (this is far from an exclusively Western problem), how do you propose we solve the problem? I've read somewhere about attempts at doing this in the past and I believe it is referred to as genocide.
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One of the early race-card politicians -since she's going to the UK we may as well classify her as lower-middle-class. She will undoubtedly inspire the likes of I_am_I (see above), but otherwise just disappear into oblivion in some gray suburbian landscape. Good riddance.
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In response to AllenT2, I too live in the U.S. and I too feel the growing tension between American Caucasians and the growing Hispanic population. With the rising popularity of the so called Tea Party movement, this is becoming more and more evident everyday. However, we all have to be reminded that the onus to maintain the peace is with those that wield the most power and the most influence. Right now, it appears that it is they that are the most vocal and the ones that are rousing the growing tension. If a civil war (as you mentioned) were to come about, the Hispanics stand no chance in survival nor the does the United States of America.
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42. Peter Wignall: Imagine if someone wrote the following:
"As an ex-Frenchman living in Europe, I listen, read and hear quite a few voices on the subject of the original Brits.
The original British people are owed as much assistance-aid-help-consideration, call it what you will, as we can muster.
Particularly those indigenous country Brits who can't afford to wear trousers, and show themselves publicly in tartan dresses not even worthy of the most poorest of French.
Unfortunately, there are few people here in Europe with the correct philanthropic minds to assist these poor mountain people.
For example: The houses built for original Brits all have rectangular rooms. Years ago I doubt if 90% of them knew what a 'rectangle was! Nature has no rectangles.
I believe there should be an international Architectural competition of designs that Brits should like to live in."
Can't you see you are just another good intentioned, but meddling ex Brit, with no real knowledge of Australia, or it's original people? That you are no different to the original Brits that had the same ideas within the first 50 year or so of British settlement?
We refer to Brits in a context where we are talking about the overall community, group etc, but we refer to the communities individually by their particular country. Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England. We don't say 'those mountain people' for the Scots, or 'those 'Shamrocks' for the Irish.
So why not refer to the 'nation' in Australia that you are referring to, not the 'Bush Aborigines'.
The Original people, here before white invasion, had their land stolen, their religious beliefs banned, their food sources ripped up for settlement, their water sources poisoned by introduced cattle, and then their children stolen in the name of an 'international consensus' of the time.
For them to live a basic, simple and harmoniously as they did, was considered uncouth and vulgar.
Now that some of those Original people have moved over to 'white living' they are criticised for taking advantage of the 'modern world' and for not going back to their 'basic life style'.
And you'll hear that protest against the Original people the most from those that supported Pauleen Hanson....yes and many of them are ex Brits.
Pauleen Hanson and her follower believed we should have been 'One Nation', that there should be no separated 'living' or 'communities'. She strongly opposed the concept of a separate law for Aboriginal people, as many Original people of many different countries within Australia wanted.
Welfare, support, assistance etc for any race of people was out as far as she was concerned.
Yet she refused to believe the land she had her fish and chips shop on, or the rambling farm she owned, were on stolen land...simply because she didn't steal it.
Yet if someone bought a stolen car, and was charged with receiving stolen goods, she was all for having the receiver punished, along with the person that stole it.
I truly hope she does move to Britain. Not because I want Britain punished, but because she just might learn something she certainly hasn't learned here.
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Pauline Hanson is not alone in believing Australia has changed too much and the people are now routinely denied electoral representation by their elected Members of Parliament. The Westminster system of political accountability is not working and the Opposition in Queensland is very ineffective.
My unrepresented son and I are Australian citizens, yet we have been consistently denied electoral representation by our local MP, John Mickel, the Speaker of Queensland Parliament in a complaint on human rights abuses, severe school bullying and judicial abuse and corruption. I spoke about it on Radio 4BC Brisbane [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
My son continues to be denied advocacy and media attention even though my citizen journalist articles on this matter have been published by The Wall Street Journal Online, Mathaba, USA Today and other foreign media on several occasions.
What speaks to our credibility is government’s dogged refusal to acknowledge, let alone comment on my documented allegations of judicial corruption, which is corroborated by sworn Statutory Declarations from retired journalists, who witnessed the abuse and testified courtroom tapes and transcripts have been severely edited to pervert the course of justice and deny us the evidence of apprehended bias and judicial abuse.
The desperate measures of Cooma, (New South Wales) hunger strike farmer, Peter Spencer on carbon trading, demonstrate how extremely difficult it is to get media attention and electoral representation on fundamental human rights issues.
Australia is the only western democracy without a bill of rights.
Further details and coverage:
Speaker Of Queensland Parliament Denies Bullied Schoolboy Electoral Representation http://www.webwire.com/ViewPressRel.asp?aId=96654
Armed Police Eject Mother From Queensland Parliament http://mathaba.net/news/?x=620379
Australia’s lone stance against civil rights bill:how juristocracy enables this and blocks debate http://www.mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=616222
QLD Governor Silent on Judicial Corruption Claims Against Brother http://www.mathaba.net/news/?x=621126
Governor of Queensland's charade and judicial corruption denial continues http://bit.ly/2jcBAY Attorney General Dick Stonewalls On Boy's Judicial Abuse Complaint http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/13/25940/1123
Let the People Elect Judges http://mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=555335
Bullied schoolboy wants Kevin Rudd to address judicial corruption http://www.mathaba.net/0_index.shtml?x=618292
Attorney General misleads the people http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/03/424062.html
Human Rights Commission defends regime not youth http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/03/424195.html
How the Federal Court of Australia selectively denies The Rights Of The Child https://publish.indymedia.org.uk/en/2009/05/430998.html
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@ I_I
"They don't want to acknowledge the fact that thanks to their insane immigration policies, this country has effectively become an exporter of terrorism, "
On the dot! England will never be England again that stands united against enemies, having allowed her her enemies to live IN England having come across from countries such as Pakistan and Somalia as irreversible disaster for Britain. That Egland allowed that Hamza to preach hatred for England in England, is mind boggling unbelievable; and it took years to send him back were he came from, 'because he had a British passport', sure but misused the hospitality of Britain to attack Britain; and also stand in disbelieve that England doesn't repatriate those Muslims who demonstrated their hatred for Britain on the streets of London 'the real holocaust is still to come', 'kill the infidel', 'kill democracy'... and didn't repatriate those muslims that intended to demonstrate with a coffin parade against Britain in Afghanistan. ... Surely not only TOP offensive but their outright declarations of war on England. Muslims who cause fear throughout Europe, covered up with 'not all Muslims are like that'. Sure, but so what?
Shame on England that a Bischop of African descent in England, warns against the disappearance of 'England's 'beautiful culture' in contrast to the Bishop of Canterbury proposing that 'sharia' laws be allowed in England against women's rights in English laws. Surely the 'elite' UK/EU has gone mad - and dangerously so! Not heeding any warnings such as the rise of the BNP and Wilders; and of course, though not allowed to be said, Islam clashes WHAM with European civilization and Christianity and the other way around. And while this plays off before their eyes for years, the 'elite' keeps saying 'you are racist, xenofobic...' denying Europeans their right to feel offended by Islam from cultural and religious perspectives; and denying the problems associated with immigration for Europeans.
My mind boggles that also the Netherlands cannot show the door to immigrants that show to be blatant enemies of our culture, of our religion, who openly say 'I only believe in the laws of Allah' in our court (!) refuse to shake hands as offensive in our culture, refuse to stand up when judges enter the court room showing respect for the Law, with imams who preach hatred in mosque and receive a reprimant, Muslim women who insist on wearing offensive niqaabs as their 'religious right' that Islam does not allow, Muslims who declare Christmas 'haram', and removed de Cross of the miter of St. Nicolas thé centuries old feast for Dutch children, but St. Nicolas is a Christian saint and 'haram', removed by Muslims for reasons of 'multiculturism', but only Muslims object.
We have known nothing else but problems, one after the other, year after year of problems with Muslims; had to pour billions into immigrants that not only proved unsuitable for our culture but against our culture/ The Netherlands in state of war by reason of Muslims with Theo van Gogh murdered, Ayaan Hirsi Ali who had to flee out of the country to go into hiding afraid to be murdered, with numbers politicians and the government receiving protection, with 'jihad' alert varying from green to red, with 'sleeping Salafist cells', 'radicalising Muslim youths', artists threatened, Islamic censorship, and authors threatened who stopped writing from fear for Muslims. Sure, 'not all Muslims are like that', but so what?
" Labour's immigration policy for the last 13 years, proves that it HAS been an experiment conducted on the British people without our consent."
The same in The Netherlands, where the Labour Party has cuddled Muslims as voters to the extent that former and long-standing labour voters also have had enough and will vote for Wilders. who is the only politician who stands up for our culture and wants to halt Islam imperialistic exapansion in the Netherlands. But of course faced with a barrage of 'racist, xenophobe' that he is not, but correct about Koran as nobody in The Netherlands would be allowed to publish a book that preaches specific and specifically hatred against Christians and Jews. 'Not all Muslims think like that', so what?
But politically incorrect to say so, what else to say but that my soul weeps for my country.
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I for one don't see the connection between Sarah Palin and Pauline Hanson. There are many people in US who respect her. I certainly wouldn't count her out on the American scene.
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Joe Malapitan wrote:
"In response to AllenT2, I too live in the U.S. and I too feel the growing tension between American Caucasians and the growing Hispanic population. With the rising popularity of the so called Tea Party movement, this is becoming more and more evident everyday. However, we all have to be reminded that the onus to maintain the peace is with those that wield the most power and the most influence. Right now, it appears that it is they that are the most vocal and the ones that are rousing the growing tension. If a civil war (as you mentioned) were to come about, the Hispanics stand no chance in survival nor the does the United States of America."
You are wrong! Americans have every right to speak out strongly against an invasion of millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico! They have every right to demand tough and consistent immigration controls on the border with Mexico in the same way the hypocritical Mexican government enforces immigration controls at its southern border!
Too bad if illegals and their supporters are offended! They are the ones breaking and flouting our laws! Basic laws on immigration that every country in this world has!
The "onus" is not on Americans in any way for the simple fact that the people at the center of the problem do not belong here in the first place!
The ones that are truly "rousing the growing tension" are the illegal immigrants breaking our laws by coming into America illegally!
And if it ever came to a civil war America would survive just fine but you can bet it would get ugly. It's not like Mexico would be able to do anything about it, even though I kind of wish they would try.
Still, I hope it never gets to that point and our politicians grow some and do something about this problem before it is too late.
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I spend a lot of time in South East Asia.
Just last month when describing Australia and its aspirations to an ASEAN citizen, I was asked where Pauline Hanson fitted into things.
When it comes to the racist attitudes of some Australians, most Asians as targets of that racism, have long memories.
I explained that Ms Hanson represented the thinking of only a small redneck fringe.
Even though she has quit the Aussie political stage, the smell lingers.
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@ Allen_T-two
People are like territorial cats since the Beginning of Time; and am sure there must be a human gene somewhere as biological foundation that urges instinctive 'protection for continuation of our own species', to protect our particular identity from disappearing altogether, as plenty of peoples and their cultures have disappeared by immigration and of cause by invading enemies, such as the disappeared 'Red Indian'; and Mexican Indian in the South of the USA by colonization and declared war. Mass immigration is not innocent but can and has had dire effect on indigenous populations as in the past with many peoples that lost their cultures and languages. Look at Tibet that is 'swamped by Asians' (Haha!) namely Chinese Asians why the culture of Tibet is rapidly disappearing under pressure of whatever China has achieved in terms of Chinese culture as Chinese immigration for reasons of territorial expansion; and Koran preaches 'migrate to spread the word' as means of expansion to serve Islam expansion. Remarkable is therefore not, that in a few decennia Islam has formed hefty power structures not only in the UK, but in The Netherlands where only Muslims demand (!)acceptance of whatever their Islam wants, at the expense of Dutch culture. Can't be done by immigrants without asking for trouble.
'Homo sapiens erectus' covers all races, but line up one Chinese, Pakistani, European, and a Thai and ask 'who is the Englishman' not allowed to ask for 'passports please', the European would have to be chosen though not necessarily English but 'European', recognised as such. You tell an African that he is a white Englishman, and see what happens. That doesn't mean that Africans cannot be and feel Dutch in culture and such, but remains ethnically seen as African, and they cannot get away from their ethnicity and background history and their 'roots'.
The Human Species' are of course all humans , yet not because of their specific 'racial features' and associated cultures and histories; and there where the trouble starts as between you soldering on 'I am USA' with Mexicans 'infiltrating us USA' but Mexicans long colonized by Europeans are mainly christian and fir far more easily in all ways to the USA, than you know who in the U.K./EU. In Mexico, when I was there, the Indian Mexicans where 2nd class citizens in their own country discriminated against by Spanish Mexicans, why I was mighty pleased that Chavez 'Indian' became president, but is unfortunately a dictator.
Besides, de USA failed to help South American countries such as Mexico to develop so that the immense poverty there could be eradicated, with as dangerous result for the USA that not only oil rich and richly weapon buying Chavez hates the USA, but Brazil and Cuba.
Why you could be quite mistaken with "And if it ever came to a civil war America would survive just fine but you can bet it would get ugly. It's not like Mexico would be able to do anything about it, even though I kind of wish they would try."
Chavez would gladly help Mexico should your American dream come true "I kind of wish Mexico would try'.
@ Greg Warner
"When it comes to the racist attitudes of some Australians, most Asians as targets of that racism, have long memories."
Sure, and Australians have not forgotten the invasion of Asian Japanese and their Hell in Singapore and on the Birma railway line, are Australians who remember how Middle East immigrants fought each other (?) or against Australians on Australian beaches. You cannot tell me that Asians are freer from racism than anyone on earth, and racists for minorities in their own countries such as in Nepal, China, Malysia, the ME, in SA and Gulf States; in Thailand and where immigrant Muslim Malaysians are gruesomely murdering Thai including Thai monks, ad they do in the Philipines; and Turks in Holland look down on Moroccans, and Surinam immigrant loath Ghanese; and ....
Dangerous is the reverse side of'assumed 'world citizens' wherein 'all cultures are the same' for Europeans; and without protection as 'brilliant achievement' by our governments whose duty it is to protect us, but no longer can.
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I reckon she's moving to Londond. There's more Aussies there than in brisbane, she'll feel right at home.
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Britontour - I walk around inner-city Melbourne all the time. I really like the ethnic mix and don't feel 'swamped' at all. In what way is it a problem to have people from Asian countries living here?
Nick - "What would have happened if she had continued to be taken seriously, as the then Prime Minister John Howard most certainly did at the time?" is poor grammar, making it look as though Howard was being taken seeriously as well as Hanson. He was taken seriously then, but that's not what you're trying to say. How about
"What would have happened if people continued to take her seriously , as the then Prime Minister John Howard most certainly did at the time?"
More importantly, did Howard ever take her on? In my memory, she was a gift to him. By ostentatiously not taking her on, he was able to do his famed 'dog whistling' (ie letting racists know you're on their side without being too obvious about it). The only 'taking on' I remember is when he said that her death video was a bit strange. This allowed him to seem rational by comparison, but at that stage pretty much everyone looked rational next to Pauline.
good riddance to bad rubbish
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Pauline Hanson is "not a person of good character" - hopefully the UK immigration service will look at her background (including allegations of corrupt political activity) and agree with that assessment.
The Wikipedia entry for Ms Hanson gives more than enough background for people to draw their own conclusions.
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Mainstream Australians complained that 'Melbourne and Sydney were swamped by Asians'? Perhaps they cared to note that the only reason Australia escaped the American credit crisis was because of continual strength of China economy and ability to demand export from Australia.
The only reason that many Australians still have jobs are due to the contributions made by Indian and S.E. Asian overseas students that contribute 20% to the country's GDP.
That there are still 'Australian' companies are because of Asian countries investing billions into saving these so called Australian conglommerates.
Perhaps mainstream Australia rather than they should only do business with 'white' countries? Why not? Not big loss to Asian countries.
As for being swamped by Asians? Fear not. Most Asians tend to go back to their own countries after minimum of 5 years of stay or after their residentship is approved. This will ease the fear of many hood wearing, cross burning white Australians.
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78 Stoatwarbler: You bring up a very interesting point. Had Pauleen been better able to address herself, both in word and party formation, she and her party could well have gained political recognitions. She could have been returned to Federal Parliament with a much stronger backing. As such, she would have been welcomed with open arms by Britain and other countries, in whatever political position she represented, even in opposition.
It is one of the many reasons I believe we need to have changes made to our constitutional.
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79. At 11:58pm on 21 Feb 2010, Richard Lowe wrote: Mainstream Australians complained that 'Melbourne and Sydney were swamped by Asians'?
No, not even a decent proportion of Aussies felt that way. And remember Pauleen Hanson's hay day was at many years ago.
Assuming you are referring to Pauleen Hanson's supporters, they were even less than their cousins in the National Party, and the Nats are very small on the Australian political list.
I would even dare to say we have more Asian migrants here than we had Pauleen Hanson supporter, but that is definitely a guesstimation.
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I care as little about her immigrating as I do about any other Australian who leaves home for good.
As for her political and racial views, this is a free country which embraces freedom of speech. She's entitled to say what she likes about anything she wants.
Hasn't she?
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Regardless of One Nations support, they could never achieve legitamacy with Pauline Hanson at the helm.
Along with her other uber-conservative views, these a some things that would make most voters think twice:
She supported a 2% flat tax on all transactions - imagine an extra cost of 2% added at each point in the value chain. Bread would cost about 50% extra at the grocery store.
She believed and accused aboriginals of ritualistic cannibalism, among other things.
Despite a groundswell of grassroots support, Australians overwhelmingly reject intolerance and ignorance. I never found One Nation success very likely.
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82. At 02:07am on 22 Feb 2010, Bill wrote: "She's entitled to say what she likes about anything she wants."
Freedom to speak your mind is limited. Oh sure, you can speak freely in some instances, but you are limited as to where you say it.
Laws and protocols control what you say in particular forums. Try calling a person a liar here, and you will have your post removed. Liable laws have kept solicitor and barrister estates in wealth for hundreds of years.
Further up this string of posts is the story of a woman ejected from Queensland Parliament for voicing an opinion.
In Pauleen's case, she was never jailed for her comments, but she was limited as to where she could say them. No matter which country she visits, or chooses to live, this will still apply.
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Nick:
I wish bon voyage to Pauline Hanson in her decision of leaving Australia and, settling in United Kingdom...But, it is her decision to make an inform idea on her future.
(Dennis Junior)
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Pauline Hanson is simply a not very clever person at politics but clever enough to make some good money out of the corrupt system. She is sincere though somewhat misguided; her lack of a good education shows. She managed to appeal to the xenophobic amongst us but her thunder was stolen eventually by the clever and insidious Howard.
That there were Asians in her One-Nation party clearly shows that she is not that racist as some would like to portray her. Her fear of being swamped by Asians is one born of ignorance but her mention of it suits the real xenophobes, the Australian media. They exploited her naivity for all its worth and managed to bring out the ugly and racist in some of us; their true intention in the first place.
The Australia media is generally unworthy of its Australian constituents; perhaps we allow too many Afrikaneers in it; unhappy with their being dislodged from SA. I stand corrected off course because I do have some of these ex-SA friends who are open-minded enough. However, you only need to look at soeme of these commentators in the Australian and elsewhere to see what I mean. While Pauline Hanson is gone, these guys in the media are continuing their agenda without Pauline.
As someone here points out what is obvious; without these hardworking Asians, especially Chinese, we would long become a poor nation indeed. So why would we want to destroy our Golden Goose by constantly attacking them? Perhaps, Rupert Murdoch and his henchmen could give us an answer; after all, Rupert doesn't need Chinese money and he has exchanged his Australian citizenship for an American one! He can afford to be racist but we can't!
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#75. annatheresia wrote:
"You cannot tell me that Asians are freer from racism than anyone on earth"
I did not tell you that and I would not tell you that...however by writing a litany of the racism that exists in other parts of the world does not alter the fact that Australia, as the most polyglot nation on earth has the opportunity to go beyond the world you describe.
Racism is a particularly repugnant part of the human condition, but in Australia's case, because of our past racist "excesses" including the White Australia Policy and our woeful treatment of aborigines, we have a particular requirement to demonstrate those excesses are most definitely confined to the dustbin of history.
And that we have moved on to something more uplifting, more inspired, more noble.
Societies are in general defined by their notion of human rights, human justice and their ability to claim the moral high ground.
In England the rise of parliamentary democracy since 1215 has created a model that has successfully been employed by advanced democracies around the world and is why Westminster is referred to as the Mother of Parliaments.
That Parliament with the vision of William Wilberforce banned slavery 200 years ago.
Not long before that the framers of the Constitution of the U.S.A. declared, amongst other things that "All men are created equal".
Abraham Lincoln emancipated all slaves in the U.S.A.
Kevin Rudd apologised to the Australian aborigines for the woeful way they were treated over the past two hundred years.
Australia has the opportunity in this new century to demonstrate a new and inspired way of living together, with all its many hued people contributing to a society which will increasingly reflect the collective nature of mankind.
This increased collective collaboration of mankind is essential if we are to solve the problems that affect our planet.
No one nation will solve Global Climate Change alone.
No one nation will win the fight against the increased threat of global pandemics, alone.
No one nation will achieve the goal of eliminating nuclear weapons, alone.
Pauline Hanson's "One Nation" is nor was my nation.
She is and was so 20th century.
The United Nations is what Australia was instrumental in creating with its first General Secretary, the revered Australian, "Doc" Evatt.
There is your role model Australia.
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UPDATE - "Doc" Evatt from Wikipedia.
"Evatt joined the diplomatic councils of the allies during the Second World War, and in 1945 he played a leading role in the founding of the United Nations. He was President of the U.N. General Assembly 1948 - 49, and was prominent in the negotiations which led to the creation of Israel. He helped draft the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and was also the first chairperson of the Atomic Energy Commission".
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@ Greg Warner
"... does not alter the fact that Australia, as the most polyglot nation on earth has the opportunity to go beyond the world you describe."
You ideals pertain to Governing such as 'abolishment of slavery ...' and agree with as ideals, but invalid as argument in terms of the subject 'racism', as 'ideal'in England, doesn't excluce racism in England, and ...
You say 'let Australia be Utopia' but that cannot be precisely because multi-culturism forbids homogenity; and as disunity can become dangerous in terms of 'loyalty to Australia' in times of war as Japanese found out living in Australia at the time and in U.K., USA; and Germans living in U.K. were also put in camps, all seen 'Hitler sympathisers'. Consider: 'all all Japanese and Germans who declared us war from their HOMEcountries'. Not even one terrorist act I know of by those Japanese and Germans, yet all regarded 'enemies'.
Consider that UK/EU is still threatened by 'jihad' attacks, with all (!)other Muslims there against U.K./EU 'invading our Islamic countries were the Brits/EU murder our brothers and sisters in Islam'. Where will all these Muslims stand should, though God forbid, civil war break out in England and/or EU? My fear is that England's 'jihadis' will sail across the North Sea to Holland or vise versa to help 'our brothers in Islam'. Not unthinkable also in terms of Al Qaeda with plenty of EU passports.
No joke is that Muslim in Holland wanted to appeal to Islamic countries for economic boycots for HOLLAND (where they live as 'citizens'!) during FITNA; as Muslims Governments boycotted Denmark and didn't stop their Muslim subjects from burning the Danish Embassy. The cartoonist was betraed to SA by a Muslim living in Denmark, and almost murdered by a Muslim Somalian 'refugee'. almost murdered a Somalian; and Theo van Gogh murdered by a Muslim living here.
From that fear arises and the legitimate question who amongst 'the few Muslims' will be the next to attack?
Why I say UK/EU is already in state of war with unpredictable internal enemies who have already and will and are ordered to attack by 'jihad' in Koran. 'Not all Muslims think so'. So what? All attacks were worldwide executed by a few Muslims. I have no idea what the solution could be, all I do know is that Europeans can no longer feel safe nor can be protected by their governments because of 'a few Muslims'.
Not racism at all as that is indeed foreign to me, but common sense based on registered genuine acts and threats by Muslims within UK/EU; and you dear Aussie and Melbournian Greg Warner, know that the Muslim 'hue' Bali next door, means that Bali and other 'jihadis' also can happen in Australia.
Your 'all hues live happily together ever after' cannot be true as your 'Utopia' is not accepted by Muslims who want 'sharia' laws and separatism from your Australian culture. Islamic veils amongst bikinis on Aussieland beaches per definition insulting to Australian women 'indecently dressed'. And your 'all hues are welcome' surely would not amount to 60 million and more Chinese who would love to live in Australia, plus millions of Somalians, and .... Would Australia still exist if you become a small minority in Australia, where other 'hues' cultures and their religions would vastly dominate?
"Racism is a particularly repugnant part of the human condition"
There you are, agreeing with my 'people are intrinsically like cats that defend their territories with claws to get rid of enemy cats.' Your 'part of 'the human CONDITION' means that your Utopia cannot exist, and does not mean that racism should not be detested, but that various races with associated histories and cultures do clash. Why deliberately introducing culture and religion WHAM CLASH with Islam in EU surely insanely done by irresponsible governments.
the time could come that human cloning erases all differences, but that 'Utopia' is the worst fate possible for mankind.
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NULL_ARC wrote:
"One thing that always struck me living here is how the people over here (white/black/asian etc) embraced me as an American even as a green card holder and once I got the citizenship I was one of them. This in contrast to the land of my birth (UK born and raised) always wanted to know if I was West Indian descent or African. What does it matter I am British."
I think that much of this has its root in British culture rather than anything, and is closely tied into class. I'm half Australian half English and have lived in several countries, and I have a very neutral accent - even so when in the UK, meeting people from almost any background one of the first things that they want to establish is where I'm from. Be it from the 'what school' brigade, to what part of the country etc. When I've been in Australia, US or South Africa for that matter, the 'where are you from' question is not one of the first things that I get asked about.
Identifying somebody's origin in the UK is in my opinion a crowding thing. Having the higher population densities appears to mean people want to be able to identify you on what your 'stereo type identity' is. I've had conversations with some of my freinds in Europe on this matter, and those that are in highly populated northern europe say things are relativly similar for them - many of those from more rural areas though thought it not so much to be the case.
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I think there is one point everyone has missed. Pauline has been forced to leave Australia because the silent majority, who absolutely hated her politics, could not stand her presence and it finally dawned on her that most Australian rejected her policies and her. It takes time but the silent majority always win. The racists are vocal but they represent a very small part of the Australian population and unfortunately give the rest of us a bad name. Hopefully they will also get the message and either change their views or leave (sorry Britain you may end up with a few more dim witted racists heading your way).
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@Greg Warner
I feel great that I live in a country with one such as you mate! When Australians say this is a great country what is meant is that we have people of your measure; a vindication of why we are capable of punching above our weighs.
@Annatheresia
Your rambling arguments make no sense whatsoever.
What you wrote put you in a category with the idiot cartoonist who thinks he can insult and inflame whole nations of people with impunity but who I am sure would react violently to a small matter of someone calling his mother a whore!
If you cannot see the relevance of eliminating slavery and the eradication of racism as causes which men of quality must subscribe to, you have no business putting out a debate here. You can only bring incoherence to sane discussions.
Imbued as you are with hatred of other human beings, you are contributing in no small measure to attempts to subvert decent society and what is precious to common humanity. Your reality of how the world is, is surely a reflection of the kind of environment you were brought up in; bigoted and incapable of seeing the broader picture of common decency. Your reality is what you created in your mind but we do not have to subscribe to it. However, we have a right to stop such as you to bring your distortion to what is still a decent enough world for others. There two hundred million decent Muslims living just to the north of us and except for the excesses of stupid Dutchmen lording over them once, they are a might better than the people you represent.
Do not worry about the possible Muslim fifth columnists in Britain, there are enough of native Britishers always wanting to subvert the country itself ranging from Cromwell to the many British Russian spys, like Philby, that were a sensation once and would be in the future. If your intention is to eliminate the Muslims or Jews for that matter, have they got a right to destroy such as you as well? Are you one of those who believe that the killing of hundred of thousands of Muslims is right but killing three thousand Americans is wrong? Killing is always wrong and the terror of killing innocent people is even more wrong.
Terror is a product that is created in minds like yours; they always beget its own consequences.
Greg Warner is right. Whether it be Australians truly believing in correct human causes or Obama believing that we can create a better world, right and rational people must come forward to support and act on these beliefs. Paranoia and bigotry are always there for those who cannot even understand what is truly in their self-interest. We are human beings and humanity can only exist if we can learn to give what we desire to get!
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#92. AussieLouis wrote:
@Greg Warner
"I feel great that I live in a country with one such as you mate! When Australians say this is a great country what is meant is that we have people of your measure"
Thank you for your very kind words...appreciate.
And #89 annatheresia...I feel for you, this world is changing so fast.
Come to Australia and leave the old world and its baggage behind.
You may find what you seek in "New Holland".
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"11pete11"
Maybe we only have the right to say what you and your PC mates like to hear?
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AllenT2.. couple of points
1. Which part of India are American Indians from? Even if you say 'west indies' - the term 'West Indies' is stupid because Columbus was travelling west, therefore the first place he hits is by definition going to be EAST of where he's going. (Draw it if you dont believe me.. put 'town', 'west town' and 'east town', in their correct locations on a bit of paper. Now go west through all three of them.. you hit east town first).
2. There is a continent called 'America'. There is no country called America. The country you're referring to is called the "United States" of America - a label that can be applied without modification to descendants of the 500 Nations (all you'd have to do is establish the previously existing nations and say they're now 'united' with the rest of the states.. just like Texas and Louisianna). Ergo, the term 'native American' can be applied very effectively to a descendant of pre-european inhabitants of the American continent - the term does not mean 'native United Statesian'. It sure fits better than saying they were from India (they were probably from Mongolia/Siberia - which is just as not India as America isn't).
Even the Canadian PM will say they live on the American continent.
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Pauline Hanson's downfall was always going to be her ignorance, but the question should be asked why did she strike such a chord with so many?
There is definitely a problem with racism in Australia, however I believe the institutional racism furthers people like Pauline Hanson's agenda. I am a white Australian mother of brown Australian children, who do suffer from racism, but have a better chance of securing a job than their white cousins. How are we suppose to live in a harmonious society when the government's "equality" promotes an unfair system that causes disharmony? Surely the best person should get the job and no one should be at the bottom of the employmnt checklist white or otherwise. Until issues like this are remedied, I can see people like Pauline Hanson gathering support.
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94. At 8:33pm on 22 Feb 2010, Bill wrote: "11pete11" Maybe we only have the right to say what you and your PC mates like to hear?"
It has nothing whatsoever to do with what I want to hear. I am a great believer in free speech, I am totally opposed to censorship, as happens here at this BBC site, other than vindictive misrepresentation and bullying. However, unlike Pauleen, and others, I respect the rules and laws.
That doesn't mean I agree with them.
And as to my Personal Computer...what the hell has that got to do with it.....yes you were referring to Political Correctness...but you assumed...didn't you...just like Pauleen did, but as others have said above...she is now starting to realise she was alone in many of her assumptions. It is better to speak clearly on a subject, rather than have others misunderstand, and misrepresent you...as happened with Pauleen Hamstrung and her No Notion Parties.
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"But Pauline Hanson was part of a very different storyline in which an undercurrent of racial intolerance percolated to the surface."
This isn't entirely true. An element of her supporters, for arguments sake lets say 50% may have been 'racially intolerant' but the other 50% had genuine concerns about immigration, social fabric and so forth. It doesn't make a person 'racist' because they don't want to alter there way of life or have more competition from jobs or some other concern.
I was in high school when Hanson started in her career in politics and I can tell you that the sense amongst the community was that she was a breath of fresh air in an environment where government immigration policy went unchallenged. She, or should I say her very public profile, did effect change in government at the will of the people so what's wrong with that?
It was only later that she and certain other cronies in that joke of a party became a bit tired and ineffectual. Outdated even. The Australia economy is probably one of the most stable in the world and her and others concerns proved to be invalid.
I would say, only the 'flooded by Asians' speech showed an intolerance based on nothing other that racial intolerance. And that's why when the unrepresented and valid concerns of the wider public were addressed by the Howard government, people realised One Nation was widely irrelevant to Australian society. Sure there's a tiny racially motivated element that would support her regardless, but I think most people could see it all in the bigger picture.
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She'll have a whale of time in the UK - does anyone know which part of the UK, I would suggest Bradford!
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Since this topic is generating so much interest, those less familiar with our Pauline may be interested to read her first speech to Parliament at http://tinyurl.com/yl9y8lo.
The full paragraph about being swamped says: ”Immigration and multiculturalism are issues that this government is trying to address, but for far too long ordinary Australians have been kept out of any debate by the major parties. I and most Australians want our immigration policy radically reviewed and that of multiculturalism abolished. I believe we are in danger of being swamped by Asians. Between 1984 and 1995, 40 per cent of all migrants coming into this country were of Asian origin. They have their own culture and religion, form ghettos and do not assimilate. Of course, I will be called racist but, if I can invite whom I want into my home, then I should have the right to have a say in who comes into my country. A truly multicultural country can never be strong or united. The world is full of failed and tragic examples, ranging from Ireland to Bosnia to Africa and, closer to home, Papua New Guinea. America and Great Britain are currently paying the price.”
I would not assume any statistic she quotes is accurate. I recall doing some demographic calculations some time ago and concluding that swamping was demographically impossible. Since this speech Pauline has not turned her attention to Muslims as the national betes noir.
About that time I was visiting Toowoomba (pop 100,000) just outside her electorate and, having come from a suburb in Sydney which has a high and increasing East Asian population, while walking the main street decided to count the Asians. This rough survey came up with ONE couple.
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She should have been left in goal to rot... Her racist attitudes against many people who have come to this country seeking a better life are crude and unjust. By advocating hatred against these people merely for skin colour or culture differences she is no better than those who seek to kill for the same reasons.
I'm starting to feel sorry for the UK now, you seem to be getting all our political idiots... please don't send us yours
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AussieLouis
Unfortunately. yesterday your Prime Minister warned Australians that the threat of Islamic terrorism in Australia 'is permanent' due to Muslim immigration 'born here and living here as residents'; and I suppose 'true Aussie' Muslim converts.
"What you wrote put you in a category with the idiot cartoonist who thinks he can insult and inflame whole nations of people with impunity but who I am sure would react violently to a small matter of someone calling his mother a whore!"
You move on dangerous grounds forbidden criticism of whoever is considered 'holy', but cannot be considered by any standards of decency and Human Rights. We, Europeans, have fought hard and have shed our blood for Freedom of Speech; and the Church would still sway absolute theological dictatorship over Europe if not criticised. Besides everything Jezus-Christ, Holy Mary, O.T. and N.T. have long been, are still critised; and made fun of such as in 'My Life of Brian' and by 'Madonna on the cross' with uncounted millions of christians who felt offended, but did not resort to violence, as do Muslims for reasons:
1: 'Holy Prophet Mohammed' cannot be according to his autobiographer; and hadiths such as 'Bukari'.
2. Criticism on Koran/Mohammed is fobidden; and under 'sharia' laws meets the death sentence
.Salman Rushdie paid a gruesome price but escaped his death sentence so far; other writers live under death treats. That criticism is not allowed is so that vested Islamic interests can keep power over Muslims. Thousands of Muslims are leaving Islam once they understand Koran/Mohammed. But apostates who live in Islamic countries cannot even say so 'no Freedom of Religion' in Islam.
3. 'Jihad' is ordered in Koran for every Muslim a) 'good path of Muslim b) 'jihad as defensé of Koran/Muhammed'; and the reason that Al Qaeda, suicide bombers and such CAN exist, is that they 'follow the path of Koran/Muhammed' who started with 'jihad', followed by 10 centuries of Muslim attacking and conquering all of the ME, Persia, India and beyond.
You say, because Muslim declare Muhammed 'holy' that nobody is allowed to criticise his 'jihad' and the results of Koran.
With that you give Al Qeda and such permission to attack, and for child marriages, stoning to death for adultery, cutting off hands ...as in Koran and 'sharia' laws.
'Not all Muslims do that', so what?
"If you cannot see the relevance of eliminating slavery and the eradication of racism as causes which men of quality must subscribe to, you have no business putting out a debate here. You can only bring incoherence to sane discussions."
I cannot ever have written that, on the contrary; and am not 'imbued with hatred for other human being' but loathe Koran/Mohammed/hadiths that are shown to be dangerous, against all Human Rights; and cause immens and untold suffering every day in Islamic countries and beyond.
"If your intention is to eliminate the Muslims or Jews for that matter, have they got a right to destroy such as you as well?'
Read Koran/hadith about 'Jews' my dear incredibly lacking knowledge 'Aussie.Louis'. Hatred for Jews by Muslims you can not only see on the streets of London. Koran/hadiths is full of Jew-hatred; and of Christians and 'infidels'.
"Are you one of those who believe that the killing of hundred of thousands of Muslims is right but killing three thousand Americans is wrong? Killing is always wrong and the terror of killing innocent people is even more wrong."
1: I would LOVE to see Afghanistan free of the murdering Talibans who gruesomely murdered and still do Afghans. Talibans who do not want freedom, yet a minority in Afghanistan, only know how to speak through the barrel of the gun to get their Theological Dictatorship the 'Caliphate'. Should they get back in power Afghan women will again bear the brunt of total oppression,.
2: Saddam murdered at least 2,5 MILLION Muslims; and Iraq's Muslims continue to murder each other day per day.
3: Khomeini & Co. in Iran murdered thousands of Muslims; and Ammajinnidad & Co. are Theological terrorists; and also apply 'sharia' punishment laws such as hanging Muslim women from gallows; and homosexual Muslims..
4: Ghadaffi murdered thousands of Muslims under his reign of terror.
5: In Pakistan terrorist attacks occur every day by Muslims (as in Iraq) who do not hesitate do blow up markets with Muslim women and their children.
as the Talibans have destroyed 400(!) schools.
6: In Yemen, Somalia, SA Muslims murder Muslim.
7: The Djanjaweed Muslims murdered 600.000 people.
8: Terrorist attacks in Kenya, India, USA, UK, Spain .....
9: Muslims murder Christian in a number of Islamic countries.
"Terror is a product that is created in minds like yours; they always beget its own consequences."
Not in my mind, but of Muslims who are products of Koran/Muhammed and apply terrorism in various forms that cannot be denied, but doesn't mean that 'all Muslims are like that' Thank God for that!
We are 'human being' but the difference lies in what they stand for, what they belief in and their cultures. There is no such thing as 'all human being are the same'.
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I am sorry to say but the UK is a melting pot ready errupt, almost daily the news reports more muslims arrested on terror charges the muslim communities don't speak out against them but are only too willing to protest at Wotton Bassett where our brave dead service men/women are repatriated but shhh don't say anything it's their right to protest against a country who gives them the protection to mass murder, plot mass murder, women here have fought long and hard for equal rights and muslims are taking us back hundreds of years - The only way social cohesion can work is if everyone wants the same thing, I am afraid this will never be the case, I don't recognise this country anymore and nor do I like whats happening but like most am powerless to stop it.
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Doc Evatt - a timely reminder of his significance Mr Greg Warner.
Is there a book on Doc? I'd love to read it.
On the broader topic of Pauline and Australia:
She was a nutter. Best to ignore the extreme people with extreme points of view - they don't define the middle.
I think of Australia as very un-PC rather than racist. And I like it that way.
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"As an American I don't know who this woman"
Then why are you commenting ?
Ms Hanson in fact made little reference to asian immigrants, which was not a particularly controversial subject in Australia then, but to aborigines - who are NOT migrants !
BTW, asians means east asians, not Indians as the author is implying.
"I'm an older American and I can tell you for sure it isn't nearly so much that way anymore with so many millions of so-called "Latinos," mainly from Mexico, being allowed to come and work here illegally"
And its completely irrelevant.
These are all LEGAL migrants.
" Now I'm no demographer, but it seems that the vast majority of people that have either committed terrorist acts in the UK; been convicted of plotting to do so; or been suspected of sympathising with Islamic extremism, have been second or third generation descendants of South Asian migrants from the 50s, 60s and 70s"
You certainly are no demographer mate.
Almost all the terrorist acts in Britain have been made by Irish people.
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@annatheresia
Thank you for your rebuttal. Now that you made yourself clearer, it's perhaps easier to debate. Perhaps also an apology is in order but your earlier messages does portray you as extreme. However, your strong feelings about Muslim extremism is noted.
Yes you are right; the PM did bring out the threat of 'home grown' Muslim terrorists. Many are of the opinion though that he has distorted the real findings of the white paper. Terrorists are everywhere but there are far more to fear from the home grown destructive forces in our societies. Such a one would be the drug trade and the evil forces behind them which is destroying the lives of thousands every day. Another is the 'Grog pushers' who are helping to destroy and kill hundreds, if not thousands of youths every year. No muslim terrorist has killed a single Australian at home; it's not to say they ought to be condoned but we exaggerate the threat. Yesterday alone, NATO forces have killed 26 innocent Afghans, women and children amonst them; so are we supposed to applaud this or ignore these repeated relentless occurrences? Yes, by our thinking, the Talibans should not be allowed to run Afghanistan because of their extreme strict moral codes and the attendant 'barbaric' punishments for violations. However, take yourself 400 hundred years back and we'll find Christian Europe doing the same, in fact worse. So, are we going to bring them to the current century by bombing and killing those we intend to 'liberate'?
I am simply stating that we should look at things from a wider and fairer context. We cannot expect to foster human rights and peaceful existence if our leaders and their militaries continue to perpetrate atrocities and violate the human rights of others. If you are a cynic, you may attribute this to human animals fighting out their territorial wars or different cultures fighting for dominance.
When I mention humanity or being humans' you counter that all humans are not made the same; meaning that we are a better species than them. But as I mentioned earlier, there are 200 Muslim Indonesians living to the north of us and my dealings with and living amongst them have convinced me that they are among the most peaceful people on earth. Are we going to condemn such as them for the wayward amongst the Islamic followers?
I do not disagree with your statistics about the killings in those countries mentioned but looking at European and US histories, we would have done far worse. My belief is that Muslim terrorism is the result of US policy throughout the middle-East, Pakistan and Afghanistan; ranging from the illegal installation of the Iranian Shah to the training of Al-Qaeda fighters by the CIA. The killing of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refugees after Israel dislodged them from their homeland, supported by the US, didn't help. The US have helped to foster a culture of hatred of them and the Israelis throughout the Middle-East. They have pulled the Europeans in with them through joint military operations. In fighting for their sovereignties and their oil wealth, many Middle-Eastern countries could only succumb to superior economic and military mights. The US currently cannot admit their mistakes and lose face and like the Vietnam War, they have to go on until the US electorate says enough is enough.
I am glad you are not imbued with hatred for other human beings but allow me to inject a sense of Australian 'fair go'. As I said earlier but not in the same words, if we desire that others behave like us with civility and grace, we have to begin to treat them the same.
However, I am not naive and believe that doing this with terrorists would result in their appeasements. However, I believe we ought to understand the underlying reasons for these entrenched hatreds and deal with them as we should and not just with military conquests. After, it took the Irish hundreds of years before they start talking peace; but it comes with accepting each other's grievances. For the US, it always seem to be case of bombing them all out. Perhaps, you can tell me why and would it really kill them all?
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@ Donna
"the muslim communities don't speak out against them but are only too willing to protest but are only too willing to protest at Wotton Bassett"
Indeed. Muslims readily demonstrate against Israël, Afghanistan/whatever but never anywhere in the world do we see demonstration of Muslims against the violence of their 'brothers and sisters in Islam', on the contrary all ills are blamed on 'The West' starting with 'the Crusades', but as response to 10 centuries of Muslims attacks is never mentioned by Muslims. 'The West' e.g. blamed for 'colonizing the M.E', not mentioning that the Arabs attacked and colonised all of the ME and beyond, after which the Muslim Turks attacked and ultimately conquered Jeruzalem, colonising most of the ME for 400 years.
Pakistan politician blames the USA for everything, not mentioning that Musharaf, to get millions from the USA, stimulated Koran madrassahs in which he knew the Talibans were and STILL are steamed ready for 'jihad' as reason that their terrorist attacks now take place from Peshawar to Karachi; and SWAT valley a Taliban mess of the worst kind where they burn even boys schools .....
'The West has done it'? My hat!
And will blame 'The West' for EVERYTHING, but never mention the Muslim mass-murderers of Muslims Saddam, the Djanjaweed, Ammajinnidad & Co, Ghadafi, the Talibans, Somalians, Bin Laden & Co.
On a Pakistan website every Pakististani agreed with a Pakistanis woman politician 'everything is the fault of USA', not mentioning that the Talibans were and are STILL educated in Koran madrassahs richly stimulated by Musharaf,
that Pakistan, Iran and SA help/ed the Talibans to get power and to keep power. That their terrorist attacks in Lahore, Karachi ... have nothing whatsoever to do with USA. Everything is blamed on the West, Muslims are past masters as playing the blame-game and in denying that Koran/Mohammed/hadiths are the source of the violence and hatred for others.
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ladies and gents,
Just a little reminder that there is no "muslim community" nor can the description "muslim" be applied evenly and fairly to any collective.
Same as "The West". Same as "Christians". Same as "Buddhists".
Live in the contradiction and nomenclature horrors!
as always,
Moz in Oz.
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I have always said one of the best things England did for Australians is take Germaine Greer off our hands. Now another loud mouth woman who speaks before thinking is all yours. Many thanks
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@ Moz
"Just a little reminder that there is no "muslim community" nor can the description "muslim" be applied evenly and fairly to any collective.
Same as "The West". Same as "Christians". Same as "Buddhists".
No comparison possible as Koran/Mohammed/hadiths preach such as cutting off the hand of the thief, 'whipping with 100 lashes for adulterers' that are institutionalised in 'sharia' and also 'jihad' solely done by Muslims. You cannot find any of this in the New Testament that is in essence Christianity, nor in Buddhisme why Christians nor Buddhist cross borders to murder as citizens of countries waging individual or group 'jihad'. Why Muslims are extremely dangerous declaring war as anarchist do; and can only do this because Islam represent a Theological dictatorship, the Caliphate, with specific laws in 'sharia'; with the 'worldwide umah of Muslims' pleading loyalty to each other such as for Palestine because (!) they are Muslims, why you cannot say there is no 'muslim community', the 'umah' has proven to be just that.
Wafta Sultan, ex-Muslim, says it remarkably 'the Jews were grand-scale murdered by the Germans, yet not one Jew has gone to Germany or living in Germany to blew up restaurants or wehatever else in order to attack the Germans'. We see a the world afflicted with Muslim hatred and violence and 'Muslim Separatism' that murders Thai Buddhists including monks by the thousands in Southern Thailand, are 'seperatists' in the South Philippines where Muslim murder Northern Phillipinos; and Muslims murder Christians everywhere because (!) they are Christians in a number of Islamic countries that all dicriminate against Christians as result of Koran.
This does not say that there are no peace-loving Muslims. But so what? As long as Koran/Muhammed/hadiths/sharia exist there will be millions of Muslims believing in every word and declare 'jihad', child marriages,stoning to death, cutting off hands, polygamy, hate for Christians, Jews and Hindoes 'holy'. A Human Rights disaster is what I call Islam; and have not even mentioned blasphemy in Koran of Jezus-CHRIST, Messias of Christians as enormous insult for Christians, as is Koran the enormous insult for the Jews as another reason why Koran/Mohammed/Muslims should never have been allowed into Europa. With Islamic governments interferring to the degree of Ghadaffi today declaring 'war jihad against Switserland' for the minaret prohibition or or not, another highly dangerous Muslim for Europe stirring-up hatred for the Christen Swiss under Muslims in EU and beyond; and with result that Muslims will be more disliked and rejected.
@ marty
Germain Greer was a case of braindrain of a brilliant Australian woman to the benefit of U.K., not exactly comparable to Hanson.
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She was an idiot.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
Oh and I can't resist,
Love it or leave it Pauline.
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Lets Keep It Simple...
"We Are In Danger Of Being Swamped By Asians"
Take a walk around Melbourne at any time of the day or night !!
Was She Wrong ??
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#112 melbourne has been overun by asians, oh really take a good look around mate and you'll find that it has actually been overun by anglos, who have no more or less right to be here than any other immigrant group.
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Pauline ever leaving Australia? Rubbish. She would be totally lost out there... Anywhere. Her chronically inflamed personality would not survive the cold ambivalence she would certainly encounter out there in the oh so complex world.
Although not a professional farmer herself, Pauline always regarded herself as being of good old fashioned Australian rural stock with a professional flair for fish and chips, hobby farming and saying what you think; no matter how intelligent or plain stupid or uneducated it is what you are saying. Just be brave enough to say it and take it on the hard chin. Who knows? Pauline's chin could be made of surgical steel. It's possible. Horse or steer kick in her youth? Possible. It would explain a lot...
Her persistent quasi patriotic spruiking and Australian flag T-shirt wearing at every possible opportunity made her some money during her primetime but then her "movement" developed a rather unpatriotic habit and hunger for gathering funds that were legally dubious and borderline criminal.
As things go, this fish suddenly started to really stink from the head so even the most entranced supporters scattered in silent disgust.
Pauline's once very public xenophobia became her equally public and very tearful and lonely prison claustrophobia. Did she learn a lesson? Maybe. I would say possibly, stubbornly not...
However, she is smart enough to know that she has been disliked and dismissed for many years by mainstream Austalians to make her pack up and leave now. So what is her true motivation? What's the sudden rush?
I think it would be best for her to go full circle and re-open another fish or chicken and chips shop somewhere in the outback where there is no satellite TV or internet. I honestly believe that this might have been her plan when she publicly but falsely announced her "exodus" to the UK and at the same time used the primetime of a major Australian TV station to announce that her current rural property is up for sale including the name of her real estate agent. She has learnt what effective (free)adevertising is. That's for sure. It might backfire though....
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