After the Ashes
Writing a final blog about the Ashes - and I promise it will be the last instalment - feels like wondering across the empty stage at some repertory theatre in the Home Counties, as the removal men are hauling the giant bean stalk into the truck, and the wardrobe department is packing away Jack the Giant Killer's costumes.
The modern-day series has become an uproarious pantomime, where many of us enjoy adopting traditional, seasonal roles and engaging in some rowdy audience participation.
Perhaps it is more accurate to describe it as Pavlovian pantomime, given how easily various national impulses are triggered. For when it comes to the Ashes, many of us are products of classical conditioning, a form of associative learning (and here, I plead guilty) where the nursery was Headingley in '81 or the WACA in the age of Lillee and Thommo.
Or perhaps many of us suffer from a sporting variant of Tourette's Syndrome, and fall prey on these occasions to verbal tics that are repetitive, stereotyped, usually derogatory and often obscene.
To truly enjoy the victory, we seem to want the vanquished to suffer horribly in defeat, which exacerbates these twin conditions.
For what it's worth, I think the hoopla surrounding the Ashes is starting to tell us more about modern-day Britain than modern-day Australia.
For a start, I suspect it reveals once more how we have become a country of exaggerated emotional responses, whether it is how we react to the death of a Princess or the musical abilities of a Scottish songstress.
Thankfully this time, Andrew Strauss and the ECB have been more restrained, and his honest assessment of England's achievement was endearingly level-headed. 'When we were bad, we were very bad,' he said. 'When we were good, we were good enough.'
Under the headline, Australians Wake to a Country in Mourning, The Times reported earlier in the week that Australian television presenters were wearing black armbands, which is precisely how we as Britons want Australians to react. But it isn't true.
Why do we want to believe it? Perhaps the false notion that Australia suffers enormous angst and pain whenever it is beaten by the Old Country is deeply comforting for a post-colonial nation which is suffering from the neglect of other former dominions.
After all, India is too busy becoming a superpower to dwell on the legacy of the Raj; America is defined by the revolution which ousted the British rather than its subjugation beforehand; and Canada's insecurities are a product of 'small neighbour syndrome' rather than being the last North American outpost of the British Empire. Australia is unique: a country where the rivalry with Britain continues to arouse great passion.
As a nation, I suspect we are rather flattered by the continued attention of our Australian cousins, for it is heartening to think that we can still rely on their abiding enmity and peevishness. The Ashes therefore allows us to indulge in some good, old-fashioned colonial condescension.
It is soothing, if misplaced, to think that the Aussies are motivated by a desire to 'balance the historical ledger', since it implies an outstanding deficit and a perpetual state of borrowing. Here is it interesting to study the repertoire of the Barmy Army, with its 'God Save Your Queen' and 'You All Live in a Convict Colony'. I wonder sometimes whether these songs, along with the fervour with which they are ritually performed, now reveal more about our own national insecurities.
It does not help that since the Ashes started, Newsweek has run a cover story piece on 'Shrinking Britannia: The Collapse of British Power', which came hot on the heels of Time magazine's admiring front-cover profile of Kevin Rudd. Nor that that the Australian prime minister has become one of Barack Obama's 'best mates', according to Kurt Campbell, the US Assistant Secretary of State for the Asia-Pacific region, news that would have resonated in Whitehall if not the Western Terrace at Headingley.
For sure, some Australians do have a habit of contributing to their own stereotyping, and some of the worst offenders occupy senior positions in sport. During the last rugby world cup, the Australian rugby chief John O'Neill spoke of a national hatred of England, and its 'born to rule' mentality. Four years earlier, John Howard was extraordinarily graceless when he presented the victorious England rugby team with their trophy and medals.
Then there was John Coates' oft-quoted reaction to being overtaken in the medals table by the Poms in Beijing - not bad, he said, for a country with 'very few swimming pools and not much soap'. Again, it's this Pavlovian pantomime: the seasonal adoption of supposedly crowd-pleasing roles.
Much as I enjoyed the series and delighted in the result, I look forward to resuming normal sleep patterns and spending my office wager windfall (a mighty Aus$50). I'm already looking to next year's series, but in true Panto spirit, I guess it's time to put the last one behind us.......
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~53~RS~)
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Nick: Hear hear. Time to put the celebrations aside and try to build a really good side to defend the Ashes in Australia next year. This will be tough, tough, tough. But something to look forward to, for sure.
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Nick,
I think you're making unjustified generalisations,those attitudes might be true in the bizarre world of sports fans,normal people have different opinions.
Some xenophobic sporting administrators and sportsmen and women are hardly representative of Australians as a nationality, those poor deluded individuals are best ignored,reminded to take their pills, or instructed to find some perspective. They are embarrassing,particularly to people like me who don't find any significance at all in sport. I agree that some English attitudes to Australia say more about England than Australia,and both nations produce some very obnoxious people. I don't feel any rivalry with the UK at all, both countries are going their separate ways,it's about time. However I have to acknowledge that most Australians value the legacy of British democratic institutions(although we've greatly improved on them of course)these are the UK's great gift to the world,unlike cricket.
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I love Britain, but for many years I have found it a remarkably unsophisticated country.
It is a place that keeps hanging on to useless traditions at the expense of practical solutions. A country that still uses a mile that is 1760 yards, and 5280 feet, rather than a kilometer that is 1000 meters and 100,000 centimeters. A country where the picture on the driving licence was only introduced in 1998. A country where the Tesco staff in London have to check with the manager whether Scottish pounds are legal tender.
Many British people think that they are still being seen as the shining example they were in the Victorian age, but in most areas of competence they are just about managing to make it into the top 20. The UK is not a world leader in anything at all, except, since this week, cricket.
The Australian society is much better organised, because the Aussies are practical people. In my three years in Sydney I have had two train delays due to signal failures. In London I used to have two per week. And the Australian banking sector is so well organised compared to other countries that it is the only 1st world nation that avoided a recent recession.
But sophisticated as they are, and independent as they have been for more than a century, many Aussies still see the UK as the 'motherland', and much of its culture is derived from Britain. Look at the ABC, which blindly buys every single series the BBC produces. And look at the sports Australia competes in, which are all derived from Britain. Having a Queen who resides in London doesn't help either. And because many Australians still feel they are in a parent-child relationship, they are rebelling against the UK like a bunch of problematic teenagers.
So I think both countries have their psychological problems. Britain because it is no good at anything anymore, and Australia because it is still trying to find its own identity. No wonder that the Ashes are so hotly contested, and that both parties are so eager to humiliate the other.
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Or perhaps many of us suffer from a sporting variant of Tourette's Syndrome, and fall prey on these occasions to verbal tics that are repetitive, stereotyped, usually derogatory and often obscene.
To truly enjoy the victory, we seem to want the vanquished to suffer horribly in defeat, which exacerbates these twin conditions.
For what it's worth, I think the hoopla surrounding the Ashes is starting to tell us more about modern-day Britain than modern-day Australia.
For a start, I suspect it reveals once more how we have become a country of exaggerated emotional responses, whether it is how we react to the death of a Princess or the musical abilities of a Scottish songstress.
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Sorry but do you even understand Cricket fans at all?
Other than one small sections of idiots who have been abusing Ponting there has been nothing abscene or even really derogatory about the treatment of either team or opposing supporters.
Once victory was attained there was very little derogatory gloating, no telling the opposition to return with their tails between their legs, no rubbing salt, no nothing like that. Instead everything I have seen (at least from the UK and excluding a couple of jaded comments about the pitch) has been based on a hard fought and enjoyable series, a shared experience whether in victory or defeat, fans who have been exchanging in a bit of raucious (but never nasty) banter over the past month have shaken hands and wished each other well and continued success until we meet again in 18 months time.
Indeed most of the talk since has been analysis of the series and how BOTH team can improve in time for the next one, which is what 95% of cricket fans want. The one dissapointment (other than the result for the aussies) of this series has been the confirmation that for the first time possibly ever that neither team involved was considered the world's best and it has taken something away, not a lot, but something and BTOH sets of supporters want that to be rectified for the next one.
I see very little evidence from this side of things of any desire to rekindle old colonial overlordships, no looking upon the Aussies as former charges and no desire from any Aussie I know to overturn any historical issues. All I saw is a close knit rivalry between two peoples who in international terms see themselves as fellow Brothers or Cousins due to a largely shared heritage and tradition coupled with a lack of any genuinely nasty competition that neighbours with similar histories but common boundaries tend to invoke. It is something that makes us possibly the two closest nations in the world in that respect and has always lead to a strange kind of mutual respect (even if we hate to admit it ourselves).
This was typified by the ovation given to Ponting on his 2nd innings dismissal, it was not just a celebration of perhaps the moment that the ashes were confirmed but also a genuine ppreciation for somene who has done so much for the game and providd so many memories in what might be his last Ashes outing on British soil. That was the true face of ashes support and I'm 100% convinced that had this series been played down under the crowds there would have given the exact same reception to Andrew Flintoff as we gave to Ponting.
If the Times insist on running stupid stories about Australia in Mourning and Newsweek decide to run a piece designed to inflame then so be it, but do not mistake the sensational stories created by media outlets who's job it is to create controversy and sell units for any kind of indication of the genuine feelings of the man in the street. We love beating the Aussies yes, but in the same way that a twin will always love beating his brother, it has nothing to do with colonial history, prejudices or racial interest and everything to do with sportsmanship and mutual friendship. Frankly if you can not see that for yourself then you are surrounding yourself with the wrong kind of people who are nowhere near representative of the majority.
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Nick, if your recent blogs have revealed anything, it's that most intelligent people feel that the popular press are out of touch with their own feelings.
I'd argue that this is more the case in the UK than in Aus. I hope that explains the "exaggerated emotional responses" you rightly talk of. I'd like to feel that my fellow countrymen have better things to think about than the latest Diana Conspriacy theory, who will win Britain's Got Strictly Come X Factor or Gordon Ramsay's sex life. Sometimes however I do wonder though!
And unfortunately it appears that the Australians are heading the same way fast. In fact, when it comes to TV they're ahead of us in the trash news stakes!
You're also right to point out that as a whole the Aussie public don't seem to be depressed, and they aren't calling foul play or bad luck as an excuse. I'll reserve my final judgement until after the one-dayers, or the next time they beat us at another sport!
As for Golden-boy Rudd (where does he get his hair conditioner, I want some!). I cringeingly recall just how popular Tony Blair was on the world stage for a number of years, right up until Iraq. Not the case any more.....
I do disagree with one of your points though: it really isn't true that we as a nation are in any way as pre-occupied with Australia as they are with us. Most British feeling towards Australia is positive (sometimes rose-tintedly so!) but it's often a non-issue. I don't know whether Freakontheguitar at #3 is Aussie, British or otherwise nationhooded, but his need to compare the two countries in a kind of cherry-picked way is fairly typical.
I don't recall hearing anyone in England saying anything like "Gee I'm glad we have decent inter-city trains, not like New South Wales" or "Look at those silly gas-guzzling cars they drive in Canberra, glad London's not like that", or "Look how hard my driving license is to forge, not like this laminated cardboard Queensland effort" or even "Wow, aren't our beaches safe compared to all those rips they have in Australia".
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What a load of rubbish. A lot of the stuff floating around is exaggerated reporting and not exaggerated emotion. Sure fans get excited when England takes the Ashes. It doesn't happen very often these days. We all remember the jibes and boasts when Australia were winning and now English fans are returning that. Its banter, bragging rights, the spoils of victory, call it what you like its simply what all sports fans do. You get it in now because you know you will get it back in spades when the boot is on the other foot. And as for suggesting the fans chants have their roots in end of empire insecurity - they are just chants sung at a match. Fans do not navel gaze about their nation's standing in the world when composing them. They are trying to find a way to wind the opposition up and/or to support their team. Do you think those doing the Aussie Aussie Aussie chant are actually communicating some unspoken angst about Australia? Anyway the Army has songs about other teams and players, so Australians shouldn't feel too honoured.
There are those who use these events as cover for venting their opinions on matters way beyond the cricket field, but there are trolls in every walk of life and it is best not to feed them.
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'Sorry but do you even understand cricket fans at all?', don't know who wrote this but brilliant, I agree wholeheartedly.
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Couldn't disagree more, Nick (and I'm glad you remembered the John Howard moment this time). The reason we sing songs such as "God Save Your Queen" etc is precisely because we know how easy it is to bait the Australian sports fan. For Australia, sport is a way of defining its national identity. It's a way for the nation to look superior on a global stage, when essentially its not that big at all. In a weird way, the policies around sport here are very similar to those of the Eastern Bloc - academies, sports scientists, etc - all legitimate, but all with the same aim: to make the nation appear superior.
It's a much bigger issue than that, but it's certainly not a blight on the British mentality and, to be quite honest, I don't know anyone who is in some way trying to hang on the the old colonies. India might be on its way to becoming a super power, but more than half of its population is living below the poverty line. That's nothing to be proud of - and its government sits idly by doing nothing about it while Britain's, and those of other nations, dig deep to help out. The United States is also hardly a model to aspire to either. It's foreign policy is the only reason we now have a war on terror that affects us all. As for Kevin Rudd becoming best mates with Obama - are you suggesting Rudd is given more airtime with the US President than other world leaders? I beg to differ. Rudd's true strength should be measured by his dealings with China, which continues to mercilessly bully him unchecked and engage in wholly unethical human rights practices, gain unchecked. Rudd's failure to act on that front could be his undoing, regardless of how pal-sy he becomes with Obama.
And with regard to your comment: "The UK is not a world leader in anything at all, except, since this week, cricket." Again, beg to differ. What about music, film making - the arts in general, actually? Architecture? Scientific research? Justice? I could go on. What do you have to rank highly in to matter as a nation? Answer: it doesn't matter. Just be proud when you do succeed in whatever it is.
Congrats on the $50, though. I won the same myself from my news colleague here at SBS :)
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utter tosh, extrapolating beyond the feasible, generalizing beyond the pale, utter utter tosh. History is history, now is now, does anyones reaction to anything have anything to do with what happened 50-100-200 years ago. you should keep these ramblings for your personal diary.
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Thank god the Ashes is over and we won't have to put up with 150 comments from doosh-bag Aussies & English baiting each other and vying for which country are the biggest whingers.
Your last two articles show Nick that both our nations are petty and want to one-up each other, we're both as bad as each other.
Bring on the Football World Cup in June 2010, let's just hope England & Australia are not pooled together or the fireworks will start again :-)
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Not sure that Australia is uniquely concerned by England. Canada and New Zealand will certainly be constitutional realms longer than Australia. Here of course the tyranny of distance is a blessing - bad for trade and culture but wonderful in geo-political terms.
IS it not that Australia has turned the tables? Seems the English all want to move to Australia.. albeit the Queen's sunny province.
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I also don't get this post from Nick.
The death of a certain ex Princess? I only know three people who went to see the crowds at the time, all were rubbernecking not paying tribute, one was on the way to their work anyway.
Which also happened during the school holidays, height of the tourist season and in good weather. Some types wailed for someone they never know, no one I know however.
As for the current trend for shows where arrogant millionaires put down some others, usually from the bottom rungs of society who think they have talent, I think such shows are rather shameful, won't watch them.
Most people I know are the same.
This is a case of media types mistaking thire media agenda for real life.
That Newsweek article, how was it illustrated? Oh yes, a bowler hatted type superimposed on a Union Jack. Aside from some tiny numbers of Orangemen in Northern Ireland and Scotland, who in the UK actually wears a bowler hat, for 45 years now. Stereotypical (and outdated) enough?
The actual article seemed like a re hash of comments made by the then US Secretary Of State Dean Rusk in 1968, after the UK refused to take part in Vietnam and was leaving 'East Of Suez' for economic reasons.
I would suggest that if anyone is about to have a big bump down in power and influence in the coming years, it is the US, where that writer comes from and this might be a form of projection about these concerns they have for themselves, put on to us.
To the cricket, not a huge fan but even I can see that it was good sport, in all senses of the word.
Why transplant the occasional comments and chants of a few fans, on to a whole country?
If anything, the British tend to laugh at themselves and put themselves down, some parts of the media, notably the Daily Mail paper, tend to try and push this into outright self loathing.
The BBC I fear, despite it's deserved good reputation generally, seems to think at times it has to pander to a 'news agenda' set by others.
Like the Daily Mail - who happen to dislike the corporation.
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Lacks the passion of Sunni and Shite rivalry...or Latin American football....but always good to have emotional distractions in a world apparently going mad. World Cup is next..nothing like being in a crowded pub for a major sporting event....alcohol and adrenaline are a powerful mix...the worries of the world disappear.
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"A country that still uses a mile that is 1760 yards, and 5280 feet, rather than a kilometer that is 1000 meters and 100,000 centimeters."
Yes, that's right. We have yet to hear of kilometers and meters on these here shores matey.
"A country where the picture on the driving licence was only introduced in 1998."
My oh my, all those years we missed out on such a luxury.
"A country where the Tesco staff in London have to check with the manager whether Scottish pounds are legal tender."
A reasonable question for a new member of staff I would say and hardly a relfection on the collective intelligence of 60 million folks.
"Many British people think that they are still being seen as the shining example they were in the Victorian age"
I've never met anyone who thinks this and I've lived here for 30 years?
"The UK is not a world leader in anything at all."
Name one country which may classify itself as a world leader in every field please.
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Great article Nick. I sure could relate to it as an Aussie living in the UK.
I try to be gracious in victory, humble about our great sporting prowess but my behaviour doesn't seem to be rubbing off on my British colleagues at work who have mentioned the Ashes loss at every opportunity no matter how inappropriate the context may be.
Apparently "we love to stuff the Pommies/Aussies (delete as required)" but I was more interested in seeing some world class cricket. To this end I must agree with Andrew Strauss that there was some very bad cricket from both sides. At least the next series will be an improvement and I will try to be humble and gracious in victory once again.
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Sorry to say Nick Bryant, but the replies seem more balanced and knowledgeable than your original article, maybe you should actually go to the games and sit with the fans, it might help you become a proper jouno...
Nice try though, good on ya!
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To paulcrossleyiii #6:
I am neither Australian or British, but have lived 6 years in Britain and 3 in Australia. I love both places, but that makes neither of them perfect.
And yes, you can accuse me of cherry picking, and Australia has its issues too.
But there are a lot of cherries to pick in Britain. None of them is a huge problem in itself. Of course the use of miles instead of kilometers is not going to bring Britain to its knees. But the general resistance to adopt practical innovations (especially those that come from abroad) may very well do so.
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Freakontheguitar writing in #3, I've never read such total, utter, bizarre nonsense.
Let's start at the top:
You start by referring to England as a "remarkably unsophisticated country". What? Compared to Australia? Give me a break. At least people in England aren't inclined to go shopping bare-footed. At least England doesn't allow radio DJ's to swear at pretty much any given time of day. At least in England you do not expect to hear expletives uttered on reality tv shows that are aired well before a lot of children are in bed. At least you can drive in England without your kids asking questions about the billboards advertising certain personal treatments for men. I'm sorry, but in no way is Australia superior on the sophistication front.
"A country where the picture on the driving licence was only introduced in 1998."
Errr, how is this in any way a talking point? How is this a marker of, er, anything? There's plenty of things that have existed in England for a number of years but are only now being introduced in Australia. Totally mute point. Pointless, in fact. I'd say that in this increasing world of surveilance and identity cards it's quite good that we had a picture-free driving licence until recently. It would be nice if this kind of thing were able to continue.
"A country where the Tesco staff in London have to check with the manager whether Scottish pounds are legal tender."
As someone else has pointed out, this was clearly a new member of staff and why shouldn't a staff member check these things? In Australia, no one is likely to be carrying anything other than Australian dollars in their wallet/purse. In London, all kinds of currencies are likely to be offered as payment in a branch of Tesco. If I was new at Tesco I would perhaps be tempted to check which currencies I could accept and which I could not. Who knows, I might occasionally make a check even if I was not new. What a thoroughly ridiculous comment to make.
"Many British people think that they are still being seen as the shining example they were in the Victorian age".
I see you switched your attack to Britain in general at this point. Err, has the UK changed THAT much since I was last living there four years ago? I don't recall anyone thinking that or anything akin to it. Using outdated, overstated stereotypes does nothing for the validity of your argument.
"The UK is not a world leader in anything at all".
Aah, my favourite! No, I don't think the UK is really a leader in much. Not sure who really is though, these days. Certainly not Australia; or do you actually think the land down under IS a world leader?! Very strange thought processes going on if you do. At least we have countless cultural contributions in the worlds of art, music and literature to our name. What does Australia have? Kylie Minogue and Muriel's Wedding. Ooops, forgot Neighbours.
"The Australian society is much better organised, because the Aussies are practical people. In my three years in Sydney I have had two train delays due to signal failures. In London I used to have two per week."
And now you start to get really laughable. Using public transport to indicate how society overall is organised (rather like saying that a country is a healthier place to live because some of their fruit is fresher) is absurdity at its best and, in any case, the train service in Melbourne is unreliable, dirty and slow. The trains in England are fast, clean and considering how many people they have to deal with, very reliable. I can't speak for Sydney, but if you seriously believe its services rival the London Underground you must have some very odd ways of looking at things.
In #19, you then state "there are a lot of cherries (meaning problems, in this context) to pick in Britain". What? And there aren't in Australia? Because I can assure you buddy that there damn well are.
You really see Australia as a country of "practical innovations"?! I don't know why I'm even bothering to talk to someone who obviously has a very strange atttidude towards life in the UK and is clearly remembering an Australia I hardly recognise at all.
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Freakontheguitar. If the UK is so backwards and Australia so forward-thinking (complete reversal of a lot of people's impressions of the two countries) why do you not go back to Australia and get out of the UK? The UK is over-populated as it is and someone as dissatisfied with it as you are clearing out would be no great loss.
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Nice article Nick. I was here in London during the 05 Ashes celebrations and it was absolutely cringe worthy the way the media and public carried on with the celebrations. It was all over-the-top, hyped-up and almost childish.
Where were Australia's OBE's (in absence of Knighthoods) for holding the Ashes for the previous 18 years? What a joke to see the English team flaunted about and taken to Buckingham Palace because they managed to scrape a series win by 2 runs. People who had never followed cricket before were turning out to cheer a team that played a sport that they didn't know or care about previously.
It's almost as if the English public have a suppressed national pride that comes bursting out in an embarrassing way when something good, however rarely, happens. The Australian public on the other hand are used to their sports teams winning and so when they don't, they could be forgiven for being less than impressed, but at least it's not an embarrassing display of being less than impressed...
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Typical have a go at England attitide in a moment of victory. How about just saying well done for a change. Media hype - wow never seen that before! Swine flu anyone? Its what they do to sell papers.
If you live in Western Australia as I do, then you would have seen the back pages last week full of 'Pom Bashing' and how this was Pontings moment of glory and would be a walk over. England were being direspectful for actually making them play the fifth test as victory was that much of a given. You would have also heard after day one how Australia skittled England in the first innings, were going to rack up 500 runs and win by an innings.
Australia reacting with dignity - give me a break. Has anyone seen the sports coverage over here? I had to watch womens softball in the olympics as Australia were playing rather than Usain Bolts 200m. They are as blinkered as you will find.
Cricket? What Cricket? Not a mention this week in the press and do you think that would have been the case if they had won?
When you do mention it to any of them then they make some comment about half the team being South African and England cheated anyway.
Well done England, ignore all the comments from those on a soap box.
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"Australia reacting with dignity - give me a break. Has anyone seen the sports coverage over here? I had to watch womens softball in the olympics as Australia were playing rather than Usain Bolts 200m. They are as blinkered as you will find.
Cricket? What Cricket? Not a mention this week in the press and do you think that would have been the case if they had won?"
Well said, Yorksha. The notion of the Aussies reacting to sporting defeat "with dignity" or anything approaching it is absolutely hilarious. They love to win, hate to lose. Aussies don't really like poms; that is very clear by the way the Brits get portrayed in their media. So why would they be dignified when losing to the English?
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Rubbish - the cricket part of sporting press is full of speculation on Ponting's future, Flintoff's retirement, Murali playing for Victoria etc etc
Not quite the same as the English (not the same as UK b) media's endless rehashing of Ashes 2005, skip four years,didn't happen, then Ashes 2009 - though I must admit there is a bit less overkill this time. Just a bit.
There are plenty of other sporting issues to follow in Australia with the Australian Rules and NRL seasons approaching their finals, and the A-League just started. The Ashes were a winter diversion and now they're over so it's back to the footy. It was ever thus. It's not, and never has been, all about England
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Cricket, what cricket? Let's turn to the choker of all time, Casey Stoner, World Motorcycle Champ (ex) who's got whine flu and can't race any more without his horsepower advantage and secret fuel stash. Perhaps we might like to switch to the tennis. Or the swimming. Fact is, all the academies, obscure chemicals, rule-bending and money aren't working any more and Oz is being called to compete on a level (if worn) playing field - and not making the grade any more. We Brits are used to being the target, used to twerp government that only supports sport for its own personal gain and thinks that the answer to obesity is a poster campaign and support from Auntie Beeb. What irks our southern cousins is that we sometimes win despite our masters and our media (largely Oz-owned), despite lack of facilities and money, while they find it difficult even with 'emergency' backing right and left. Swivel, Bruce - you're fading.
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campantman,
Aussies really don't like SOME Poms,particularly those whose suffer from a kind of verbal diarrhoea and made offensive anti-Oz generalisations.As to media portrayals,really,I'm old enough to remember the nasty way Australians(and the Irish) were characterised in UK TV programs in the past.
Sport certainly is a catalyst for xenophobia.
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campantman, where does your outright dislike of this country come from?
You constantly accuse Australians of reacting badly to anything negative being written about thier country but you do exactly the same thing in relation to Britian in many of your posts.
You accuse ALL of us as being thong wearing, neighbours watching, uncultured one-eyed rednecks. Have you ever watched British TV ? Neighbours and home & away rate highly, Trish Goddard is all class, British soaps are absolute trash. As for swearing on TV I should think Britian leads the world.
I know that this is not a true representation of British society as you must know what you write is not true of us. Getting upset over some of the comments you make about Australia is only natural as we see ourselves in a positive way, which is a good thing.
The fact you know nothing of culture in this country or the contributions we have made to the world says more about you than us.
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"The fact you know nothing of culture in this country or the contributions we have made to the world says more about you than us."
My statements about Australian cultural controibutions were (quite clearly) a means of ridiculing freakontheguitar's ridiculous assertion that the "UK is hardly a world leader" and the implicit suggestion contained therein that Australia somehow is. I do not think the UK is a world leader myself, no, but nor do I think Australia is.
Would you care to support your attack with some kind of an example? Name the contributions you as a country have made that I apparently "know nothing of". Go on, please.
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For the record, I don't hate Australia. I do, however, think that it is tremendously, deeply, perennially overrated.
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Campantman
I have just gone over freaksontheguitars posts and cannot see where he is implying Australia is a world leader in anything, he, as a non Australian just seems to have a preference for us. He does state that the UK is not a world leader in anything but why does that lead to an attack on Australia?
I have read most of your posts over the past and you seriously must admit that you do seem to have a problem with this country.
I am not going to sit here and write a list of notable Aussies for you to peruse, it would take forever and I am a terrible typist. Why dont you just look for yourself. The fact that I wont give you the information does not mean it does not exist. It just means I was right saying it is your fault if you dont know.
I would like to point out that the greatest invention of all time comes from this country, that is of course Vegemite.
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I should just add that I did not say you hated this country, the words were "outright dislike" I do feel sorry for you though, how can you have a balanced view of this country living in a bleak place like melbourne.
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I think there is plenty of over-analysis of the Ashes and the Australia- England rivalry.
It is a rivalry because these were the first test nations in cricket and because the series of played over five matches means that some extraordinary cricket needs to be played to get a result.
But I think most people watching are more interested in how the game is played then whether the 'colonials' were put back in their place or the mother country was 'told to have a wash'.
All the hype in the media is exactly that, hype aimed at selling newspapers and attracting viewers to late-night television.
John Coates comments were the same - trying to give Australia's olympic effort a focus publicly as it battles to get air between Usain Bolt and other true Olympic stars. Coates is in charge of a massive government-funded industry that many in Australia are now questioning whether it is worth it.
It costs tens of thousands for each gold medal and many believe it is a waste that could be better spent fixing real problems in the community. (by the way, I'm not against government funding of sport, so long that it is targeted at younger people to ensure there is an overall health benefit. Olympic medals should be a byproduct, not the overall aim of sport funding).
A night after the Oval test, channel nine were reporting it as 'our ashes disaster'
what rot, it's a cricket series that, yes is played seriously (for sheep stations, in the Australian vernacular, and has called into question form and tactics of Ricky Ponting, but also of England.
I think, though, the result was the best for cricket (yes, start laughing now. The Australian team took celebrating to a new low against India two years ago. Now having the cricket world catching up to it means the team has to relearn what the spirit of the game is and what constitutes celebrating and what celebrates rubbing it in.
I think once again England showed how it is done. Winning the Ashes is a big thing. But they never lost sight of the fact that it is a game and there were two sides out there.
I look forward to summer next when England comes out here. It should be enthralling.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Nick;
Can we please have a non sport related blog ASAP, the "my dad's bigger than your dad" primary school playground mentailty is becoming a little tedious to say the least. I notice valued contributors such as Whitlamite and Wollemi appear to have given your last three blogs a wide berth.
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Campantman,
The best thing about the British is their sense of humor.
(You don't have it.)
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It seemed to me, and I went to 2 Ashes matches that the barmy army is now colonized by working class yobs who know very little about cricket and merely go the the cricket to get blind drunk (on full strength mind you - wake up CA), and chant abuse and boo players.
All these songs about convict colonies and God save your queen. These chants are 20 years old now. It is just plain boring. No-one cares who you are and where you come from blah blah.
The best riposte to English condescension is that we have avoided a recession AGAIN while you are suffering horrendously in the worst recession since the war. Enough said really.
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Scrapthejack, it's good to see you've retained your sense of humour!: "I would like to point out that the greatest invention of all time comes from this country, that is of course Vegemite." Bit I need to stick up for Melbourne, if you're looking for somewhere bleak in Australia, try the Gold Coast.
Rossco737. "The best riposte to English condescension is that we have avoided a recession AGAIN while you are suffering horrendously in the worst recession since the war. Enough said really." Good to see you're in no danger of sinking to the level of those people you criticize.
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Satoru in #37.
Hard to have a sense of humour about somewhere as fundamentally dispiriting as Australia.
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Rossco737:
"The best riposte to English condescension is that we have avoided a recession AGAIN while you are suffering horrendously in the worst recession since the war. Enough said really."
Reports this week suggested the recession in the UK is already reaching an end. I suggest checking your smug retorts for cogency before posting.
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In any case, at least the UK isn't in a permanent recession culturally.
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Thus far, campantman, I have believed your claims that you do not hate Australia. But after your last 3 comments, I must now stand in disbelief. In both senses of the word.
How you can tolerate a country you condemn as 'dispiriting', I fail to see. I see little wrong with hating a nation, even one that I myself have a good impression of. But resenting a nation while remaining there? You remind me of those radical Islamic clerics in the UK, who sit back, in full contempt of the nation they owe their lives to, sheltered away from the persecution they faced in their home land. They loathe the UK, good for them - but they should, they must get out.
I must assume you live in Australia out of personal choice. If its culture and its spirit is so unpalatable, then leave. Simple as that. Perch yourself in Mother England and condemn those sunburnt Ocker's until you're blue, red and white in the face.
As for British 'cultural' recession, it is plain to see that British culture has declined quite substantially in recent years. As have most nations in the West. If you feel that drunkenness, slobbishness and a curious obsession with sport is an Australian problem, you really don't know anything about Britain.
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First of all the only cricket I know about is the little buggers that get into your house and make a clicking sound that is totally out of proportion with it's size. The football I know about uses an egg shaped pigskin and not the round thing that everybody else does. So I guess this makes me uncouth. However, the passion that we in our country have for this sport reminds me of the Ashes thing. Family members don't speak to each other if they support the wrong team. Heck they're worst than communist. Dude in Alabama shot his son cause he was depressed about his teams loss. The thing I've noticed is that it seems Europeans or descendants thereof seem to be very much alike in regards to sports. Winning verifies our superiority, loosing on the other hand is unacceptable. Many Asian cultures want to win just as much but when they do they do it with more grace. Since chivalry was founded in the earlier kingdoms of Europe, where did we go wrong?
ps...for all who want to be a super power please take America's place, we here are about tired of it. China anyone?
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#43 - synthil - as anyone with an ounce of intelligence and maturity should appreciate, people do not always live somewhere entirely out of complete personal choice.
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How many senses of the word 'disbelief' do you consider there to be, by the way?
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Synthil.
You wrote:
"If you feel that drunkenness, slobbishness and a curious obsession with sport is an Australian problem, you really don't know anything about Britain."
I don't recall even mentioning drunkeness or slobbishness at all. Where have I referenced those terms? And I certainly don't recall saying that these things were unique to Australia. If indeed you think I have could you please direct me to where?
I don't believe that any of Australia's negatives are UNIQUE to Australia. That would be silly and I've not said that at all.
But if you think that Australians aren't considerably more cocky than Brits, or you believe that the contributions to art, literature and music made by Australia are a match for those of Britain, or you consider that Australian's don't have a complacent habit of sneering at other nations, especially the 'poms', then I really don't where you are coming from.
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Dispiriting was perhaps the wrong word on reflection. On reflection, my biggest problem with Australia is that, compared to life in the UK, mainland Europe or the USA, life in Australia is, well, dull. It is flat. Uneventful. I guess some people love it for that very reason. But one man's treasure is another man's trash.
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I agree with campantman that life here in Australia is relatively uneventful. Which partly explains why the media like to dramatise and capastrophise so many things. I do not know anyone who hates the British. We have strong ties to the UK for historical reasons and because so many of us have lived there or have family living there, generally for a few years. My adult children both live in London. That has caused me to follow British news somewhat more, and to visit London somewhat more than I had in the past. When and if they return, as they plan to, we will no doubt continue to feel a special tie to the place that will have been such a part of their lives.
They know they will battle with the dullness but the pull of family, friends and climate is strong. The cricket issue is just a matter of interest; strong interest to some, no interest to others and something for the media to try to make into an interesting story.
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"36. At 05:46am on 28 Aug 2009, smoggyinAus wrote:
Nick;
Can we please have a non sport related blog ASAP, the "my dad's bigger than your dad" primary school playground mentailty is becoming a little tedious to say the least. I notice valued contributors such as Whitlamite and Wollemi appear to have given your last three blogs a wide berth."
Aha, interesting that someone noticed our absence. On my part I realised many weeks ago that no matter how concerted my efforts were to encourage a broader analysis of Australia outside the realm of sport, I would ultimately fail.
The ashes is a magnet for people who obviously enjoy the game (game!) of cricket, and for culturally paranoid sad losers with something to prove and an axe to grind. Sometimes you get that as a two-in-one combination, disturbingly there are more and more who would exclusively identify with the latter.
As an Australian, I don't think about Britain very much, I feel no need to prove anything to Britain, I honestly care as much about Britain as I do comparable small European countries such as The Netherlands or Ireland. Britain is rather sweet and okay, but generally I just don't care, and consequently this idea that I should be in mourning is absurd. I suspect that the ashes is far more important to Britain than to Australia, as Nick argues. Although I disagree that it is because Australia remains the last remaining Commonwealth Realm with any serious regard for the United Kingdom. I think New Zealand and Canada have far more of an association with the UK than Australia does, and at any rate Australia is busy becoming the 'Saudi Arabia of coal and LNG' as Nick once put it.
I think the ashes is more important to the UK because it has something to prove, wheras Australia does not. It boils down to authority, and the trauma associated with acknowledging a loss of authority. As children, older siblings often try to dominate their younger siblings. The younger copies the older, the older is seen as a role model, something brave and strong, a figure of cool familial control. However, as the years inevitably pass and the once substantial development gap lessens, the younger sibling will forge its own path, just as the older will grow in a new direction. With that, the authority and influence the older once had over the younger evaporates into nothing. There is still a great deal of affection and regard between the two, but one no longer has the soft and hard power it once had over the other. The younger sibling has lost nothing and will only ever gain, while the older sibling will have lost something despite his own achievements.
It's inescapable - Britain has lost something, and Australia has not.
It's that simple point that drives this weird fixation that some British have with Australia. I also believe it explains a lot about the ashes.
So I feel sorry for the UK. It has lost so much and that has to be incredibly traumatic. However, any vague attempt by it to reassert some kind of authority over Australia will not be successful, to believe otherwise would be to add delusion to trauma.
Campantman: "But if you think that Australians aren't considerably more cocky than Brits, or you believe that the contributions to art, literature and music made by Australia are a match for those of Britain, or you consider that Australian's don't have a complacent habit of sneering at other nations, especially the 'poms', then I really don't where you are coming from."
You perceive and deplore a complacent Australian habit of sneering at other nations, as you simultaneously engage in that repulsive practice yourself.
Whitlamite.
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Very good to know that an Australian can see my point, brightSharon in #49. Thank you!
Nice beaches and more sunshine are all well and good but some people aren't just looking for an uneventful existence deep in suburbia with a suntan. To use a sporting analogy, this is where Australia scores its biggest points. Fairly big house, two cars and visits to the beach. Golf club membership for dad and a 4 wheel drive and coffee mornings for mum.
But the downside is that this is all in a place where *some* people at least can't help but feel curiously isolated and detached.
To use another analogy, living in Australia is rather like sitting right at the back at a big concert. The stage seems miles away and you have to watch events filtered through the large screens on either side.
The people right at the front are where the action is. Sure, it's crowded and a bit uncomfortable there at times, but they are where it's at, where it's all happening. If you try and stand up to join in the fun, someone nearby tells you to sit back down and so you just have to try and make do. Enjoyable but not exciting. Fun but also a little bland.
It's obvious that there are plenty of people here who loooove Australia and won't even begin to see where I'm coming from here. Good for them.
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Whitlamite:
"So I feel sorry for the UK. It has lost so much and that has to be incredibly traumatic. However, any vague attempt by it to reassert some kind of authority over Australia will not be successful, to believe otherwise would be to add delusion to trauma."
What an immensely sanctimonious, patronising thing to say.
At least the UK had it to lose. More than can be said for Australia.
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You just have to love internet blogs! Any neutral reading this would begin to think that England (the UK) and Australia were mortal enemies - OK maybe in sport they are - but the truth is that in the real world that most of us inhabit the two countries have far more in common than not. Every time I visit Australia I feel instantly at home, and the many Aussie friends I have in the UK say the same thing is true in reverse. Despite the increasingly absurd sniping between posters on here, face to face I have always found Australians to be the salt of the earth, and they certainly have always welcomed me Down Under in real style. I regard it as a second home; I love the place.
Our shared history means that, whether the small minds exampled here like it or not, our two countries share a pretty unbreakable bond. Our military are joined at the hip (and fighting together in Afghanistan as I write), our intelligence agencies share just about everything, and the basis of our laws, democracies and judicial systems are identical. As if that was not enough, we not only exchange citizens to live in each other's countries in large numbers, but through marriage and parentage have shared bloodlines that stretch back two centuries. In short we are family, and I for one would have it no other way. We may argue from time to time, but which family doesn't? Long may those Down Under waltz Matilda, and many more times may I sit under the shade of a gum tree watching as they do. Pass me another stubby!
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Nick,
I'm an Aussie and losing sucks. I feel rotten. Lets hope i never have to get comfortable and familiar with this feeling, as my pommie mates have.
Glad we'll now go back to non-sport topics. Reality seems to scare away the loony posters.
Cheers,
Gazza
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In the olden days, I believe that the snobby English had a saying that simply said "the wogs begin at Calais". (I hope the BBC lets that word past).
Seems to me that the English still have that attitude and unfortunately, we're past Calais.
Still it could have been worse, we could have been adjacent to them like the Scots, Welsh and Irish. Then instead of simply disliking us and our country they could have tried to exterminate us.
Chin up lads, it's only a stupid game of cricket but I have a sneaking feeling it's much more to you.
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Campantman as an Australian I felt away from the action when I was traveling through Europe. Even though the BBC and British media provide a fine service, I felt disconnected from the news of the Asia Pacific. I guess it is all about perspective and where you are coming from. As an Australian the news in Europe didn't relate to me and I guess this perhaps indicates the nature of the relationship between Britain and Australia. Increasingly it appears that we have very different destinies and we are both struggling to get comfortable in our new roles on the world stage.
Australia is trying to find its place within Asia and while it has not always been a comfortable fit, we are feeling more at home than ever before. Britain on the other hand is trying to find its place within the great EU experiment. Sure we both have historical ties and we meet on many sporting fields around the world but I see our futures more apart than together. For some of us this is hard to imagine, its like cutting the umbilical.
Oh and please don't judge Australia too harshly on its cultural contributions. We are a young nation that has had to grow up quickly, we can never compete with the history of Europe and nor should we. On the whole I think we do okay, but yes there is always room for improvement.
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My family and I moved to Australia just after the last Ashes victory and in time for the next Ashes defeat. My Brother came over for a holiday and I spent some time showing him around. Obviously the boxing day test was a must see. Refunded day 4 tickets, not so 'must see'. Frequently our accents were noted and local Aussies struck up conversation regarding the Ashes. Not once was anyone rude, but always they were convinced of their teams superiority. Considering they were 2 down after 2 at that stage, we could hardly deny the obvious. I agree with many here, that, for England beating the Aussies in 2005 and now again in 2009 is a tribute to the Australian Cricket team, not that the history of the Ashes means so much to England, but because we are trying to beat a truly exceptional team that has been the World best for many decades. For England with its' on again off again form to be able to raise its' game to compete with the Aussies in my opinion reflects on the significance of actually beating the Aussies. You don't aim your targets at beating the worst, you aim you sights on beating the best. Australia decline to 4th in the test nation league table is temporary and is probably as low as they will go before recovering.
All in all Australia, do not regret defeat at the hands of England, but take solice in the fact that your Cricket team brings out the best in ours, and the competition is always the winner when this happens.
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Just been reading all the previous entries on the blogg, and campantman it appears needs some councelling. He has a serious problem with Australia in which it appears just as the early convict settlers is imprisoned living here against his will.
I am British. 45 having been here in Australia since I was 41. There are many things in Australia, or that Australian's do that I dislike or find odd and difficult to understand, but, I am grateful to this nation and their people for allowing me the privelage of living amongst them.
campantman clearly does not and perhaps he should consider purchasing a one-way Qantas ticket back to old Blighty.
Freakontheguitar (that should be changed to FreakontheInterWeb) the U.K is not the only country to use miles as a measure of distance. That great first World country that Australia aspires to replicate (America) also does. They also use LBS and Tonnes (and I am not talking metric tonnes). Always remember, many of the institutions of normal life were derived or invented within Britain, and just because others (typically the French who are perpetual outdoers of all things British; it seems to ease their marginalised by language paranioa) choose a different measure or method or standard does not mean Britain is backward for not adopting it.
Trains (your original #3 post is ridiculous) in Australia are next to useless. I know, I commute 80K into Melbourne every day. With the exception of Perth, the same (according to the media) is true of all other capital cities. I regularily suffer points failure delays, signal failure delays, tracks not designed for >35 degree weather, cars incapable of negotiating a level crossing, people on the tracks, and a line that is incapable of operating to a timetable most notably because Melbourne Southern Cross station is not open eneded for Country trains, causing turn arounds to delay incoming traffic. $1 Billion was spent on the roof to the station, and none on the tracks underneath it.
Australia is not better than Britain, it is however certainly different, and the country (whilst also very different) is most beautiful.
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@campantman,
And you blame the uneventfulness and dullness of life on Australia?
You make your life as eventful, or uneventful, as you can. A nation won't do that for you. Although, as an ex-pat Brit, I am sure you grew up with the insidious mentality that the State caters for your every whim. One sympathises, if so.
To blame your boredom on regional disparity suggests just that - a disparity. You're different to Australians, you can't relate to them. You suggest their live is suburban, casual, uneventful. Is British life, as a whole, any different? Not in the slightest. Your sedentary, suburban mentality clashes with the Australian mentality - you don't like this. Instead of challenging Australian norms, attempting to stimulate the people around you, you sigh and sulk.
Note all the points I have made, and denounce them all at your heart's content. But to insinuate that life in the UK is like being 'at the front of a big concert' is absolutely laughable. Really, I laughed.
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As usual the reality probably lies somewhere in the middle.
However, I live in Australia and this notion that they are not bothered about the English and losing to the English is just nonsense. The fact that the Aussies on here are promoting this view as forcefully as they really tells you what you need to know.
It is understandable in a way as pretty much every non aboriginal Australian is at a maximum three generations removed from some other country and that is not long. They still have the union jack on their flag and you can appreciate why they are so firecely competative to prove their own identity and they are still making a history of their own.
I love living in Australia, but guys, just be honest, you lost and you don't like it. Thats natural and part of life. You can't just ignore it or argue it away that it doesn't matter. If it didn't matter why did it fill so much paper space and airtime when you were winning, and if you are not bothered why play in the first place?
This mornings news headlines proves the point about how much it does matter and how Austrlia wants to flex its muscles in the world arena to prove that it is up there with the biggest of countries, when it said that the Aussie qualifier in the US open took Safina all the way and it was a major scare and Safin should thank her lucky stars that she got through when she should have lost.
She lost the first set (this is sport remember - these things can happen you now) and then won the next 2 6-4, 6-2 - hardly down to the wire I would say.
Or take last weeks article in the West about how Webber was making a challenge for the F1 World title this year.
Or how the Wallabies had a chance of winning the tri nations despite having lost half their games already, or any number of articles like that to do with Australians.
Laughable articles but it says a lot.
Australia are a great sporting nation and make no mistake they are hurting when it comes to the ashes - you would just like a bit of realism and humility by them actually admiting it.
The challenge for England is to not misinterpret this 'we are not bothered' attitude so that when we come here in a year and a half, we are not whitewashed again as the Aussies will be after blood.
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'you would just like a bit of realism and humility by them actually admitting it'...Yorksha.
Why? Would it add anything to the victory? When I win something I couldn't care less about the competition. Or are you looking to squeeze every ounce of agony out of the opposition by saying that they are not losing in the manner you would like them to lose.? Anyway, Ashes is old news. I'm sure Australia has lost other stuff since then.
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Yorksha, you got it right. the way Channel Ten were trailing the 'Aussie Tennis Upset', you'd have thought that the girl had won Wimbledon already.
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Paulcrossleyiii,
The newspapers were saying that Hewitt pushed Federer all the way today. Which you would think implied a 5 set match, but no, out in 4. Hewitt winning the 1st set constitutes him pushing Federer to the wire !
You should appreciate that the newspapers (and the T.V in particular) bear no relations to truth or accuracy.
The funniest thing I have ever heard was a report on channel 7 morning news about something that happened in Southampton worthy of reporting on here in Australia. It was described as Southampton London..
Really the media over here is uneducated and plainly cannot be bothered. In the U.K the media tends to tell it as it is because their audience will not tollerate being delivered the message the media thinks we want to hear.
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Soapboxjoe, it's quite amusing really, just how bad 7, 9 & 10 are - I found that listening to the French news on SBS was actually more informative the other day, this with my GCSE level vocab. Not sure if all of the UK media is as good as you say though.
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Funny how Roger Federer commented on how close the game was. That third set went 7 games to 5 and then 6-4 in the fourth. That is pretty close to me. Oh well you obviously have made up your minds.
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At Campantman...
"The Australian society is much better organised, because the Aussies are practical people. In my three years in Sydney I have had two train delays due to signal failures. In London I used to have two per week."
And now you start to get really laughable. Using public transport to indicate how society overall is organised (rather like saying that a country is a healthier place to live because some of their fruit is fresher) is absurdity at its best and, in any case, the train service in Melbourne is unreliable, dirty and slow. The trains in England are fast, clean and considering how many people they have to deal with, very reliable. I can't speak for Sydney, but if you seriously believe its services rival the London Underground you must have some very odd ways of looking at things.
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Just wanted to weigh in here, I'm a Brit living in Sydney (Soon to be returning to the UK). The public transport system here is absolutley awful! You can't even compare it to London/ South East. Trains here are usually old, dirty, slow, have very poor connections and always have a stupid amount of stops. How the original poster can hold the Australian public transport system up as an example of it being a better run society like you said is laughable. So Campantman, I completely agree with you, whoever wrote such nonsense clearly needs to take his/ her rose tinted glasses off.
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