The Pope
The Pope in Australia. So much to talk about. So much to blog about.
I thought by now that I would be reporting on the first arrests under those highly-contentious special regulations brought in for Catholic World Youth Day, which threatened hefty fines for annoying or causing inconvenience to a pilgrim. They made an offence of causing offence.
Secretly, I'd rather hoped that the police would carry out a dawn raid on the surf school at Bondi that has been offering "walk on water" lessons for visiting pilgrims. But those killjoys at the federal court have spoiled all our fun, by ruling that the special laws brought in by the New South Wales parliament impinge of the right of free speech. Who would have thought it?
Then I thought about raising the intriguing question of why Australia's two foremost churchmen, Cardinal George Pell and Peter Jensen, the Anglican bishop of Sydney, are both leading lights in what some would call the fundamentalist wings of their respective churches. Both have taken staunchly traditionalist stances on pre-marital sex, homosexuality and the interpretation of the scriptures.
Archbishop Jensen was a founder of the Global Anglican Future Conference, the group which is so staunchly opposed to Gene Robinson, the Anglican communion's first openly gay bishop. Cardinal Pell has been accused of standing for "the kind of Catholicism that we saw in the Middle Ages," by no less a figure than Chris Sidoti, Australia's former human rights commissioner.
Is this mere coincidence that the two men both come from Australia, or part of this country's "conservative tradition" that I keep banging on about?
Then I thought about sharing some of the papal press coverage, which has revealed once again the fabulously irreverent streak of the Aussie media. "Benny and his Jet" was how Sydney's Daily Telegraph described the Papal flight. Channel 7 has taken to calling the papal retreat on the outskirts of Sydney his "Holy Hideaway". When the rail unions threatened a transport strike to coincide with World Youth Day, the Sydney Morning Herald came up with "Stations of the Very Cross".
But it's the headlines that arouse anger rather than amusement which are impossible to ignore. Earlier this week, I wrote about the sexual abuse scandal that threatened to overshadow this event, but since then there have been fresh allegations against Cardinal George Pell's handling of it.
They came from Anthony Foster, whose daughters were raped repeatedly over five years by a Melbourne parish priest, Kevin O'Donnell, while they were at primary school. Emma Foster never recovered and, after years of drug abuse, committed suicide earlier this year at the age of 26. His sister, Katherine, developed a dependency on alcohol before being hit by a drunk driver and left physically and mentally disabled. She now requires 24-hour care.
Mr Foster described to ABC's Lateline programme how Cardinal Pell, who was then the Archbishop of Melbourne, had allegedly stalled the family's fight for compensation. Their protracted legal battle took eight years.
The main spokesman for World Youth Day, Bishop Anthony Fisher, was asked about the controversy today. His response is worth quoting in full:
"The cardinal and I were otherwise occupied last night enjoying the youth festival so we didn't see the Lateline story. All I've seen is the reports in the newspapers today.
"Happily, I think most of Australia was enjoying [and] delighting in the beauty and goodness of these young people and the hope for us doing these sorts of things better in the future, as we saw last night, rather than dwelling crankily, as a few people are doing, on old wounds."
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No amount of spin can excuse this latest bit of outrage from the Catholic Church. I think they are badly in need of some education themselves about this whole issue. These statements only confirm what I think - that they don't want these issues in the public domain at all and wish it would all go away. Incredibly insensitive and hypocritical coming from an organisation that preaches constantly about abstinence outside marriage.
Interested in your comments about our conservative tradition - generally speaking, we are I suppose (something John Howard exploited for a number of years) although I question the influence of Pell and Jensen across their respective churches- surely their medieval views can only be supported by a minority? - in fact, I think their attitudes and public statements do not reflect the many good works perfomed by members of their churches in the Australian community. (and this coming from an atheist!).
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Nick,
it is nice that the pope is in australia.
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I'm not Roman Catholic, but I must admit that I find the media so predicable these days. Can't any one reporter stand apart from the cynical culture we are en-steeped in to rise above stigmatizing terms thrown at the church such as 'fundamentalist' etc? The irony is that the majority of people reading such articles will not even be able to articulate the true definition of such terms, and so in using them, writers only play upon the ignorance of a secular culture so desperately in need of the hope that the Church has to offer.
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re: Anthony Foster, whose daughters were raped repeatedly over five years by a Melbourne parish priest, Kevin O'Donnell.
re: priest, Kevin O'Donnell
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/bbing/stories/s531384.htm
David Forster: My recollection is that he received a jail term of approximately three years, and I'm aware of very senior people in positions of authority in the church being aware of abuse by that priest in the 1970s, and in the 1990s. My first victim of that priest was in 1946 and if you look at the parish historical record of the parish of Dandenong, it referred to, 'there was hardly ever a day when you wouldn't see Father O'Donnell with his head under the roof of a VW car surrounded by children'. And he was voracious in his appetite. He was a very entrepreneurial priest, he made a lot of money for the church and he was able to go on his merry way and abuse children, and I would have to say that from my experience, I would estimate that he would have abused up to 2,000 children.
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Is he visiting Ayer's Rock?
...then we can have "a Frock on the Rock"!
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The World Youth Day coinciding with the pope's tour is a great concept.
The PR spin seems to be a sickly sweet fondant covering the cracks of deeper issues and concerns from catholics that the church do not seem to be handling in an open and caring way.
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all the media over here are calling the WYD partipators 'pilgrims'.
hang on, pilgrims get trampled to death by the dozens in mecca, some whiping themselves along the way. my catholic mum walked 600km solo across spain with a shell dangling around her neck just to view some old bones, then turned around walked back.
no rock concert or pope-themed meat pies for her. at some point, our definition of this word has been somewhat loosened.
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I am following the news on WYD virtually, as I am not able to travel to Sydney. I am shocked and pained to read what happened to Emma and her sister. I empathise with the family's feelings of anger, betrayal and bitterness - these are appropriate responses in the aftermath of the vicious blows of suffering, that rained from a place that was meant to protect and keep safe.
To the Foster family, a terrible evil swept into your lives. But you did not drown... some of you survived and now, you are coming to Sydney, an annointed city at this moment in history. That you should even want to come is a miracle! I hope you would have the opportunity to meet the Holy Father and may you experience healing, peace and the immense love of God that will carry you for the rest of your lives.
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A tiny minority of priests have committed terrible crimes and it is right they are punished. Bishops who covered up these crimes should also be held to account. These priests betrayed the Church and did not follow its teaching. However, this is not the whole story with regard to the Catholic Church. The young pilgrims at the World Youth Day show one of the best sides of the Church: the great optimism and hope in the future that being a Christian means. The Church has learnt the lessons of child protection and it is unfortunate that journalists do not recognize this.
Catholic teaching on sexuality is the best there is around. It regards sex as a precious gift given to us by God for the purposes of pro-creating (with Him) new life. The Church also sees marriage as a sacrament. The secular world on the other hand trivializes, commercializes and abuses this god-given gift.
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The pope has no authority to lecture others. He has not been elected democratically to speak on behalf of anybody.
The authority he claims from god should not be taken for granted: establish that there is a god, and only then establish that this god has given you authority. Methinks there are some missing links here.
Truely the Catholic church and all other religious organisations are the bain of humanity.
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Sorry Nick, afraid I'm dwelling crankily.
Nothing can excuse the repeated rapes of a family's primary school daughters for five years. Nothing. Look again at how it destroyed this family and how it brought about those poor girls'sad end, and pray for them. And yet this just one terrible crime of many, many. The book must be firmly thrown at these people. We are not in the dark ages. We are privileged to have the law and we have to be strong and start to use it. We need the impetus to prevent this kind of thing.
Personally I agree with everything the pontiff is saying this time around. Television and the internet, popular culture and consumerism in general, it is corrupting society with sex and violence as entertainment, and I think producers need to start showing more respect. I would like to delight in the beauty and goodness. I just can't.
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First and foremost my thoughts today are with the victims of this "organisation" across the globe. However what concerns me is that the world places so much credibility on an 81 year-old man who has a "mandate" from God. Most other 81 yearolds who claimed such things would end up in an old people home with regular amounts of care.
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The Catholic Church Loves children.
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Apparently the Pope said that the world "has grown weary of greed, exploitation and division, of the tedium of false idols and piecemeal responses, and the pain of false promises". How true. Sums up Catholicism and most other religions.
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Its good a religeous leader is admitting problems within his organisation but he still needs to answer one very important question that is getting asked by more and more people from around the world:
"Why is every story and teaching from the Bible and the Christain ideology found in Ancient Egyptian religeon, albeit with different names, 2000 years before Jesus Christ was reportedly born?"
Around 400AD one influencial Christian said it was entirely explainable as the work of the Devil, forseeing the Christian faith and establishing his own.... I am sorry, but in 2008AD that answer is no longer acceptable/valid/believable and frankly is insulting to even the most devout christian.
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Religion = LMAO ;o)
Thank the God(s) I am an atheist and more and more are becoming the same.
All religions are based on two thing coming from very olde worlde reasons!!
1) enables the individual more chance to survive if they can be included within a larger group
2) enabled the church to instill a sense of better law and order
Well - we have courts now who handle law and order and a million common-interest groups in physical and virtual world so no need for this "I believe" crap any more suuuurely ??!
Church people seem to think that they are like the British Royal Family - except at least they are a bit more in touch with reality and people's feelings these days.
I cannot believe we still have Christmas holidays and all the Atheists, Hindus, Muslims get the time off work also.
Religion = LMAO ;o)
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I hope the Pope has taken a sailing ship over to Australia and is cycling everywhere. Surely by flying isn't he committing the sin that he made up the other day regarding environmental pollution? Or is he exempt?
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10. At 10:42am on 17 Jul 2008, utdfan82 wrote:
The pope has no authority to lecture others. He has not been elected democratically to speak on behalf of anybody.
The authority he claims from god should not be taken for granted: establish that there is a god, and only then establish that this god has given you authority. Methinks there are some missing links here.
Truely the Catholic church and all other religious organisations are the bain of humanity.
----------------------------------------------------
Hey utdfan, what do you make of Queen Elizabeth II then?
If you have ever read the Bible, you may recognise this line:
"And Simon Peter answered and said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Jesus answered and said to him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My father who is in heaven. And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it." - Matt. 16:16-18.
Peter in Greek = Petros = rock, in Aramaic = Cephas = rock. And Jesus was the one who actually named him 'Peter'. His name was actually Simon. But Jesus decided to name him Peter. That's the theological explanation for papacy. The first Pope was St Peter himself, and Benedict XVI is the successor of St Peter.
Missing link? try again.
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16. At 2:11pm on 17 Jul 2008, WaveyDavey007 wrote:
Religion = LMAO ;o)
Thank the God(s) I am an atheist and more and more are becoming the same.
All religions are based on two thing coming from very olde worlde reasons!!
1) enables the individual more chance to survive if they can be included within a larger group
2) enabled the church to instill a sense of better law and order
Well - we have courts now who handle law and order and a million common-interest groups in physical and virtual world so no need for this "I believe" crap any more suuuurely ??!
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Well Davey, Atheism is indeed a religion too. Because you believe that there is no God. Religion is based on belief.
Logically then, you chose Atheism as your religion.
Monotheistic religions claim, for example, there is 'after-life'. Nobody can prove that there is, or there isn't. So either you believe there is after-life or there isn't.
Either way, you have to believe. So what's so different about atheistic religion from theistic ones?
Law and order came about because of the Church. The Church guided Europe through the Dark Ages with a governmental systems we see today. Without the Church in the past, it's impossible to see law and order today as you mentioned.
The Church in my opinion is an opposition force to whatever happens in the development in our civilisations/decivilisations. Every democracy has opposition party. Thus, the necessity of Church's presence is in fact a true sign of democracy, as it is for atheism as opposed to theistic beliefs.
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At 2:36 - royalfulhambroadway.......
Actually athiest's can believe in many different things from one another.
i.e. there is no after life or there is pink nothingness or we turn into a non-phycial projection of the M-Theory
People who believe these or more differing idea's can be regarded as athiest.
Athieism is the "anti-religeon" if anything was to be called that.
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Also fogot to say royalfulhhambroadway,
Law and Order existed 1,000's of years before christianty was started.
Virtually the same system existed a several societies.
As for church being democratic... I don't remember seeing public opinion being used to decide who is the next ultimate power of the faith (Christian Pope) in a religeon where everyone is meant to be equal (Christianty)
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"This should be the most telegenic World Youth Day ever mounted. But the headlines have so far been dominated by the more ugly side of the Catholic Church. "
Who makes the headlines, Nick?
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Any chance that Bridge Climb's on the agenda? "Pope on a rope" would be a snappy Tele headline.
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Religion = LMAO ;o)
Thank the God(s) I am an atheist and more and more are becoming the same.
All religions are based on two thing coming from very olde worlde reasons!!
1) enables the individual more chance to survive if they can be included within a larger group
2) enabled the church to instill a sense of better law and order
Well - we have courts now who handle law and order and a million common-interest groups in physical and virtual world so no need for this "I believe" crap any more suuuurely ??!
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Well Davey, Atheism is indeed a religion too. Because you believe that there is no God. Religion is based on belief.
Logically then, you chose Atheism as your religion.
Monotheistic religions claim, for example, there is 'after-life'. Nobody can prove that there is, or there isn't. So either you believe there is after-life or there isn't.
Either way, you have to believe. So what's so different about atheistic religion from theistic ones?
Law and order came about because of the Church. The Church guided Europe through the Dark Ages with a governmental systems we see today. Without the Church in the past, it's impossible to see law and order today as you mentioned.
The Church in my opinion is an opposition force to whatever happens in the development in our civilisations/decivilisations. Every democracy has opposition party. Thus, the necessity of Church's presence is in fact a true sign of democracy, as it is for atheism as opposed to theistic beliefs.
I think you illustrated waveydavey007's point quite neatly. Just because religion is based on belief doesn't mean that all belief is religion. This is what is called a quantifier shift fallacy. If I give you another example: all dolphins swim, I swim therefore I'm a dolphin. This is the first flaw in your logic.
Law and order is much older that Christianity, it's been documented as far back as 4000BC, pre-dating Judaism as well as Christianity. Any argument that begins with the proposition, "Law and order came about because of the church" is necessarily illogical.
Finally, an opposing force to developments in civilization would be something that makes us revert back to barbarism and I'm sure that's not what you meant but whatever your intention you do seem to be implying that the Church is opposed to democracy.
I have no issues with your religious beliefs. I think the diversity in Britain is overwhelmingly positive. I do take issue which your crass and obvious attempts to dress your position up as logical. Belief is belief and nothing more.
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The pope is out of touch with society in general I feel.
More worringly the Roman Catholic Church is completely out of alignment with Christ's testimonies I feel.
Why has the R.C. Church largley been ignoring the 'bad bits' from Christ's testimonies and only reading from the 'nice bits' for the past 2000 years?
I did not agree with the Pope's recent trip to America. Is this not the Roman Catholic Church condoning 'water boarding' prisoners and approval of Guananomo Bay and the Iraq war?
Visiting Australia is all very well, but what message is the Pope really preaching here? His message(s) seems very vague?
Shoudn't the Pope be more regularly quoting Christ in his Papal addresses?
Christ seems missing from this australian trip and all we seem left with is a man and an organisation in delusion.
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I come from a diocese that has been hard hit by sexual abuse (Boston) and we are slowly recovering. I don't know why the press has to constantly harp on it though. I know of many good priests and religious who have dedicated their lives to God and to serve his people. They are out there every day making a difference in people's lives, yet most of the comments here have been taking shots at the RC Church.
As a member of the Church I can see that it has its faults. After all it is man(as the race not the sex) that runs the Church, and man by his very nature is imperfect and we seek to find perfection through God. That doesn't mean we are going to be perfect, we are going to screw up sometimes and the Church has. The point is that we try to better our lives and the lives of others.
I think we need to focus on the positives of WYD. Thousands of youths coming from around the world to gather in their belief in Christ. I don't see why anything but good can come from it! But it seems much easier for Nick Bryant and other reporters to put a negative focus on the event. I am sure there are amazing stories from some from some of the youth, how they got there and what they had to endure to do so. Why don't you tell their stories?
So I challenge Nick and other reporters to get out on the streets of Sydney and talk to the youth and see what they are experiencing. As a past WYD participant I can tell you that it is a life changing event, and to not tell the story of the pilgrim's experience would be to miss the point completely.
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Not being Catholic, it's not for me to say whether Bishop Fisher is a disgrace to their Church, but he's an absolute disgrace as a human being.
"Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
Whether you wreck the life of a child, or whether you protect those who do so, or minimize the cruelty of their actions... draw your own conclusions, Bishop Fisher.
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www.bishop-accountability.org/abusetracker for daily verifed coverage of the ongoing global curia criminal cover up, costing laity mutiple BILLIONS OF EUROS/BPS/DOLLARS, with no end in sight, no real correction, tens of thousands of clergy abusers still free, whether: retired, defrocked, angeled, transfered, paroled, hidden, house arrested, etc., still raping and sodomizing children in a wholesale basis, and no punishment of the curia, who continues to condone in action irrespective of spin and PR words, with no punishment of hundreds of overtly guilty cardinals and bishops including: Pell, Hummes, Bertone, Re, Scola, Sodano, Rivera, Mahony, Leveda, Egan, Law, O'Malley, Maida, DiNardo, Burke, McCarrick, Keeler, George, etc.
These CRIMINALS, 99% appointed by John Paul II (NO SAINT), each need to be removed from office, each canonically censored, and each placed under life house arrest, at a miunimum, like was done to proven pedophile and sexual assault enabler Marciel, of the Mexican cult religious order, The Legion Of Christ, or alternatively, each must be EXCOMMUNICATED!
No Curia Accountability? No Laity Monies! It's THAT Simple!
Ciao e pace,
Albino Luciani
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Dear Nick
The comment of mine that you quote was made when George Pell was appointed Archbishop of Sydney. I was criticised at the time on the basis that I should "give the man a fair go". My response was, "The bloke's already got form". He had by then been Archbishop of Melbourne for some years and we saw there exactly what he was like and what he would do. I said at the time, on the basis of his Melbourne form, that the first things he would do in Sydney would be to purge the seminary staff, impose his own version of Catholic religious education in Catholic schools and clamp down on the more progressive work of Catholic social service organisations. And so it was.
Now this week in Sydney we see the medieval church in all its glory. Indulgences are available by the hundred. The body of some nice young Italian man, 80 years dead, is being hauled around for quite grotesque purposes. The Prince Bishop of Sydney places himself beyond any due process or accountability. And papal triumphalism is reaching new heights (or is it depths?).
Much of the media and church commentary presents a polarised interpretation of reactions to this medievalism. It's the true believers versus the anti-religious secularists. But this simplistic interpretation fails to recognise the thousands of ordinary Catholics in the pews, like me and most I know, who are intensely humiliated by what is happening. Not just embarassed, humiliated. How do you reckon we feel when we are associated by our Church membership with this distortion of the Christian message? This arrant nonsense?
At least there are two good aspects. First the kids are having a great time and enjoying themselves mightily. Whether that justifies the multi-hundred million dollar expenditure and the medievalism is another matter, of course, but they are having a good time.
Second, the exercise will bankrupt the Sydney archdiocese, in spite of the $200 million of taxpayers' subsidy World Youth Day is receiving. If appeals to the Gospel of Jesus Christ have no effect in bringing change to this medieval monster, then perhaps bankruptcy will.
By the way, I am and will remain an active, confessing Catholic Christian. The Gospel and the Church are too important to be left to these fools alone.
Chris Sidoti
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"The Pope in Australia. So much to talk about. So much to blog about"
Nick Bryant
Nick you are absolutely right. My question is: why aren't you talking and blogging about it? You got us off to a bad start by concentrating on the negative. But this event is about several hundred thousand young people who have travelled to the ends of the earth to celebrate and share their Christian faith in a positive and joyful way. Why has the BBC almost totally ignored these young people, the main participants of the event? Are you not curious why they choose to take a path that is radically different from their young contemporaries or from the critics of the Catholic Church who usually respond in a knee-jerk manner to these blogs?
So far Nick Bryant's coverage is nil and the BBC's in general very unbalanced.
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This is a pretty dreadful post Nick. What on earth does this mean:
"Both have taken staunchly traditionalist stances on pre-marital sex, homosexuality and the interpretation of the scriptures. "
Last time I checked the Catholic Church was opposed to these things so not sure how you can say Pell is on the fundamentalist wing... And doesn't fundamentalist mean taking scripture literally (something the Catholic Church does not do). What exactly is a "staunchy traditionalist" interpretation of scripture anyway?
Why don't you instead report on the hundreds of thousands of young Catholics who have paid thousands of pounds and travelled thousands of miles to hear this message which you're so obviously against?
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I'd have more time for the Pope's comments on environmental degradation if he also had something to say on overpopulation.
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I am an agnostic of Protestant background but I also feel that the coverage here is disappointing and negative. Would it be the same if it was a gathering of Hindus or Muslims rather than that of the largest single religion in Australia? There are numerous young participants around our local area and I would love to hear some of their stories. We wonder how the money was raised for their fares, whether they are seeing other places in Australia etc. It is the norm in Australian culture for people to keep their religious beliefs very much to themselves, and in the normal course of events I think that is a good thing. This is not a routine event and I have an interest in issues other than that of sexual abuse in the church which the media seem to regard as the main topic of interest to readers.
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