Blatter backs off on quotas
Fifa president Sepp Blatter has confirmed to me that at the forthcoming Fifa Congress he will not ask the organisation to force clubs to field only five foreign players in their teams.
For months Blatter has been saying that the Congress, which will take place at the end of month in Sydney, would make it obligatory for club teams to field at least six home-grown players.
But following a meeting with the Uefa executive in Moscow on Wednesday morning, he told me that his plans had now changed.
Talking to me after the meeting in the Uefa hotel in Moscow, Blatter said: "We had a very good meeting with Uefa. I shall ask Congress to say that six plus five is a desirable objective and that Congress asks President Blatter to work with Uefa president Michel Platini and the European federation to realise this objective while working within the laws."
Blatter also said that Fifa would work with other team sports to realise this objective.
This would make it an initiative that would cover sports like handball, volleyball, basketball, ice hockey and many other team sports.
Blatter's comment to the BBC marks a major shift in policy on the part of the Fifa President.
Until recently, it seemed Blatter was intent on making six plus five Fifa policy and was willing, if necessary, to take on the European Union which had made it clear this was against its laws on the free movement of workers.
However, the stand taken by Platini and Uefa has forced Blatter to think again.
Platini, a friend and ally of Blatter, made it clear that while he thought the idea was good, it was illegal and should not be used by world football to set it on a collision course with the EU. Platini reiterated that stance on Tuesday.
It was Platini who also decided that since Blatter was coming to the Champions League final in Moscow, the visit should be used for him to meet with the Uefa executive so he could see how they felt on this issue.
The result of this is that while Blatter and even Platini will argue that six plus five is a good objective, it will not become the policy of world football unless EU laws change. It is difficult to see how it can ever become a football requirement.
Uefa feels there are other initiatives it has taken and is planning to ensure that clubs field more home grown players, but it is keen to do so in such a way that it does not run foul of European laws.
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UEFA and the EU are actually wrong. Individual leagues are free to impose any restrictions they like. The premier league is essentially a competition and if they decide it is only to be open to teams of little green men, then that is their prerogative. I don't personally agree with any of Blatters headline grabbing proposals, but this one is essentially workable in law.
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Absolutely crazy idea; typical of Blatter. It would not be good for the game, quite the reverse. You are in essence filling teams with worse english players. The presence of foreigners is raising the standard of the game. You see the FA are now making the effort to get British players better. The "too many foreingers" argument, dragged out by all the [insert insult] is simply wrong; its an excuse and a poor one at that.
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While dmrich (comment 1.) sounds right, and if you look at it from the competition rules point of view I am sure is right, there is a conflicting point of view. The point of view I mean is the one of EU and Uefa: that actually like someone who works for a company is the sales or accounting departments, that players are employees of a company (while very different to a bank or a factory, etc. is still basically a company) and as such are subject to EU employment law. I am not a lawyer or an law expert but usually this would vastly overrule a competitions rules. After all this is law by which all people are supposed to live, not a clause in a competitions rules in the style of 'This competition is only open to residents of the UK and Ireland aged 18 or over'.
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I don't think the point is to stop the top foreign players from playing in any league they choose to. The problem is when the likes of Bolton and Arsenal field a full XI of foriegn players when there are players out there who deserve to be given a chance. Too many below par foreign players have now infiltrated the game who are of no better standard than championship quality English players but they come slightly cheaper and are deemed to be 'better' because they are foreign. Teams like Man Utd and Chelsea do actually have a number of English players in their lineup, but sadly too many others are losing their home-grown players and along with this goes the soul of the club and the connection to the fans. I think it is a great idea but don't think it will solve anything as far as the top four dominating the league (well except for Arsenal who won't be able to field a side). I would imagine a squad # limit and a certain amount of youth players in the side would be a better leveller - all that will happen is the top teams have the most money so will buy up all the best English players and the lower teams will get worse because of this.
The issues of EU law are what is killing football anyway....not only can players take all the power away from clubs but are now paying up their own contracts to move clubs. Sport and EU law should not mix!
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The EU law is there for a reason.
Everyone else in the EU can ove around and work freely, why should footballers be excluded from this?
It is unfair.
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jjfoulds81 is in fact correct when when you analyse the rules on this.
It is not about the competition as a whole but the rights under EU law with regard to employees (players) and companies (clubs).
Unless a deal is reached with the EU I can see this whole thing falling apart in the courts very quickly when a "European" player gets released from his English clubs contract and runs to the European Court of Human Rights.
Personally, I am in favour of a "foreign" player limit but I don't think they can make it work in Europe now
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Its ridiculous he points out England. Look at Serie A Inter Milan who won the scudetto have hardly any italian teams when they played liverpool only the reserve goalkeeper on the bench. Also as jjfoulds81 says its not workable within the law. Its saying you can only employ people who are english whether they have a work permit or not essientially. I believe the only 6+5 rule that could be put in would be 6 EU players. Even if it goes through whats to stop the big four buying the best english talent up before it comes in nothing.... This will only enlarge the gap between the top and mid table teams in the league.
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So Blatter wants quotas to limit the number of foreign nationals because of the dominance of English teams in Europe, yet then points out that Man Utd had six English players anyway. Then there is of course the issue that the UK is different from England, so would Ryan Giggs count as foreign? Let's not forget, Chelsea started with four England internationals, so they're safe for the first set of quotas. Rather than making anything fairer it will just push up the prices of English players and the top four will continue to dominate.
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Really what is the point?
At the moment we must have at least 50 players playing week in week out for premiership clubs. Unlike before where a couple of teams got to play about 8 top level matches in the champions league instead we now have all the premiership teams playing the big 4 at least twice a year + cup competitions and its clear its improving talent. If he thinks the influx of foreigners is ruining the English team he should look at whose in charge
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I think this ruling is a great idea, despite the fact that the value of an english player will go through the roof, like Micah Richards or Gareth Barry costing Ģ30m instead of Ģ15m, it will encourage greater developement of English talent by exposing them to the big games both domestic and in europe, plus it will encourage smarter spending when it comes to buying the foreign talent and means it the game will be less about the size of the chairmans wallet and more about the next Stevie G or Wayne Rooney, the coaches and the scouts.
I think it will imrove the English game.
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Typical of Sepp Blatter. No one said a word when the 2000 cl final was contested by Real Madrid and Valencia, or in 2003 when juve played ac milan at old trafford. But as soon as the english teams start to prevail on the biggest stage, it's suddenly an undisputable crime against humanity. EU laws are unlikely to change for the sake of what is fundamentally a game, and consider this: does this mean that the likes of arsne wegner will start with 5 foreigners and 6 englishmen, only then to sub 3 english youth academy products after 2 or 3 minutes with the likes of fabregas and adebayor? It's crazy, illegal, and unfair.
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Does anyone really think that by having quotas it will add value to the Premiership? Looking at the current England squad the majority of players are at Liverpool, Man U and Chelsea. If quotas do come into force then players like David Bentley (and a few other good English players playing for clubs other than the "Big 4") will be worth a premium to the Big 4 and would undoubtedly be offered a contract with one of them (probably will be anyway and maybe deservedly so). The rich clubs will take the cream of the English players at a premium allowing the other clubs to fight for sunstandard English players who would not be in the teams if there was not a quota system in place. If this goes ahead it will be the end for any other club trying to break into the "top 4". This seems like Europe trying to dismantle the best league in the world, as shown by the Chelsea v Man U game (for a neutral it was a great game of football) - it is certainly not being proposed by Blatter and Platini so that England can have a better team!!!
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The problem with this whole pan is it will arguably penalise the leagues that Blatter is supposedly trying to help and will give a distinct advatnage to leagues such as La Liga.
Leagues like Belgium, Scotland and smaller Eastern European nations just don't have the quantity of quality youth players to compete at a European level so must be able to plug gaps with foreign players. If you've filled your quota and your established domestic striker breaks his leg, a Spanish side has a huge number of quality players to pick from, Celtic and Rangers have much less to pick from.
Then you have the issue of "gaining" nationality. Players in Spain can obtain Spanish passports in potentially 2 years, its 5 in England and Scotland.
Even if Blatter puts th entire weight of FIFA and UEFA behind this, a whole list of clubs will bog it down in court for years.
This is a non-workable idea.
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Clearly this proposal is absurd, for a variety of reasons. But what really bothers me is that it has so little to do with the goal they say they are trying to reach.
Blatter says that, "It's to make sure there is better balance and not only three or four teams in a league of 18 or 20 fighting to be champions." Yet his proposals will do nothing of the sort.
If you are required to play a certain number of English players, all that will happen is that the top clubs will buy the best English talent, and price others out of the market. There would be no way that first team and fringe England players would be playing anywhere other than the top four clubs.
The leftover foreign talent would go elsewhere in Europe, probably back to their home countries, where they could continue to play at that level and earn those wages.
This move will not stop the top teams from running away from the rest. It will mean that top clubs hoard the best English players (which almost happens already anyway, with Chelsea and Man Utd).
If they were serious about equalising competition, they should be considering a more equitable distribution of prize money (the Champions League prize money is the reason for monopolies in many smaller national leagues in Europe) or the introduction of measures such as salary caps.
Unfortunately, my guess is that they have neither the intelligence nor the courage to even discuss these.
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I disagree in part with the argument that foreign players are improving the quality of the game in England. I think the inclusion of top quality foreign imports is undoubtedly a benefit to our younger players but the journeymen who ply their trade in the Premier League are doing so to the detriment of a young player's development.
However I feel that whilst this move would be better than nothing, a salary cap could be the best way to encourage homegrown player development. In rugby league a salary cap has been in place for several years and the current world champions (Leeds Rhinos) won the title with only 5 foreign players in their squad. Not only that - 10 members of the 18 man squad who won last year's Grand Final came through Leeds' academy set up. Young players are pushed through the system as the salary cap encourages teams to blood them as opposed to signing expensive imports.
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why should nationality be so important. if you have a choice between shaun wright-phillips or ronaldo who would you choose?
or a choice between upson or vidic?
or a choice between Downing or Messi? (yes messi plays right-wing but technically so could downing).
do not tell me that this idea would not simply result in teams specialising in say defenders and relying on the foreign players for flair.
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I dont understand the arguments that are being forwarded by either side. It seems quite simple. FIFA and UEFA cant limit the number of "employee's" a club can have and no one from either body is saying that. But what they can do is limit the number of non home grown players on the football pitch and that is something that is completely within their power.
Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool can employ as many foreign players as they like, no one is stopping them doing that but what FIFA and UEFA are stopping them doing is fielding more than 5 of those players at the same time. All it is a change to the rules of football and I dont think anyone is going to prevent FIFA from changing the rules of the game that they officiate.
There is no legal issue at all here. Nothing is preventing FIFA from implementing this and nothing should prevent this. Its the best move FIFA have made in quite a long time. Maybe after this they can concentrate on the fiasco that is the offside rule.
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i'm not sure how this rule is going to help. all it will mean is that the rich top 4 will hoover up all the best english talent and fill the other half of their team with world class foreigners. the other teams will get the dregs of the english players combined with whatever foreign players they can afford.
so in reality, if this ruling goes through it will widen the gap between the top four and the rest still further; this has not ben thought through properly at all!
if sepp blatter wants more even competition throughout the major leagues and competitions, i'm afraid there are only two things he can do:
1. improve coaching standards/youth development
2. start courting billionaires.
clubs such as leeds, newcastle and everton need more financial clout.
when these young stars do come through these clubs they will be more inclined to stay if they are playing along side other great players (that the big money has bought), therefore giving these clubs a chance to actually win something.
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Affirmative action right? Since we are at it, why don't have a quota of 3 black team managers per each premiership season? Since when did sport become charity?
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If they are going to come up with this rule, English players will be even more expensive. I'd welcome the idea as long as all English players' price wouldn't exceed 10 million and they had a salary cap. If rules like that are not introduced all, average English players will cost as much as world-class foreign players.
Anyway, has anyone noticed this fact?
As the number of Englishmen in Premiership has decreased, the quality of the league has increased.
I think all people that want quotas should think about it.
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How on earth can this idea work within the EU law? EU football clubs are corporations and employers of players.
Blatter and Platini are hopelessly out of date. Football is already a global product but their mindset is a throw-back to the days of pub and village football - which undoubtedly how football clubs started.
Quality English players are few and cost twice as much as their European counterparts. That's why thrifty clubs such as Arsenal prefer to look elsewhere for players. Implementing this idea will force English players' costs further up the roof. Spurs paid 16 million pounds for Darren Bent to warm the bench. With Blatter's regulation being implemented, Spurs would have to pay 32 million.
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If this helps the England team develop then I am all for it.
It's not against EU Law on a technicality - there is nothing in the stipulation that forbids a club to employ a player, just against them playing a team full of non-native players.
As Blatter said - Man United met the criteria that Blatter sets out and they won the CL so why would it stifle other teams? It's just the Premier League and foreign teams like Arsenal that are bleating.
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It is interesting that whilst the influx of foreign players is pointed to being the reason why the league is so much better, the team that won the the champions league is the team that fielded a higher proportion of english players than the other three English clubs in this competition, in fact that the English teams went out in order of the number of overseas players in the squads.
Whilst people mock Chelsea, their aim of trying at least to have an English core mixed with hungry developing overseas talent is admirable and perhaps something that Wenger should look at.
Personally, I think it means more if you know you're represnting your country and your club, even in a competition like this.
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To all those saying that it is not an infringement of European law, as clubs can still employ players... while it is not directly limiting the number of foreign players that CAN be employed, it is limiting the number of foreign players that WOULD be employed, and this amounts to the same thing in employment law. Anything that will lead to clubs discriminating in terms of nationality will contravene the law.
I don't quite see what the aim of this is; the problem with the national side is not a lack of good players, we have plenty of them. It is getting them to come together and play like a team. Maybe this would happen if they played together at club level more, but this would not necessarily be the result of any such ruling.
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Aren't similiar capping restrictions present in Rugby League and Cricket? (Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not 100% sure).
If that's the case, how do they by-pass the EU restrictions and football doesn't?
86nr11
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"Aren't similiar capping restrictions present in Rugby League and Cricket? (Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm not 100% sure)."
In cricket, there is only one test nation (England) and one professional league in the E.U.
But there are still problems with the E.U. employment laws because of the "Kolpak" ruling that states that players from certain other countries (I think it's those that have some kind of arrangement with the E.U.) have to be treated the same. This has led to a big influx of South African players into county cricket, circumventing the 2 overseas players per county rule.
All that FIFA can legally do is restrict non-E.U. players, but even then the Kolpak rule applies, so it wouldn't apply to that many players.
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Ok no idea why my first post got deleted? Dont see how i could have broken any house rules by simply stating my opinion?! What else is the point of these boards?
Anyway, lets try again
Firstly i dont see how this could be against eu law, as someone stated in cricket there only allowed 1 foreign player.
But whether or not it is illegal is irrelavent in my oppinion as what Blatter is setting about to do is never, and i mean never going to be acheived by this. Infact it will have the complete opposite effect.
If you limit the amount of foreigners, the richest clubs i.e man u and chelsea will buy up all the best english players, and they will still have class foreigners aswell. Then even if the rest of the league can buy foreigners that can compete with those at utd and chelsea, there english players will be of sub standard, and so man u and chelsea will just go on dominate more and more.
His one argument was to look at man utd having six english players in there team and how well they did winning the champions league. Obvioulsy hats off to them they did well and deserved it. But how much did they spend on those english players? roughly 90 million on 4 of them(30 rio, 25 rooney, 18 carrick, 17 hargo, rough figures i know, but you get the point), yes the other two came through the ranks, but how on earth is anyone else going to compete with that? Answer is there not.
I really dont believe that anyone in Blatters position can serioulsy see how this is going to help close the gap on the dominant teams. I suspect that really he is just trying to ruin the dominance of the premierleague, as he knows that there is more talented players in italy and spain. But that is just my oppinion, is that ok mr moderator?
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I donīt ever recall Blatter so intent on changing the rules on foreigners when Italian and Spanish clubs (particularly Real Madrid) were stuffed full of foreign players and winning the Champions League.
I sense the new wave of thought on this by Blatter is that English clubs have copied this method of success and it is not to his liking. It is always the same story with Blatter and English football and I am afraid that Platini is not much better (yes...the same Platini that was a foreign player in the Italian Juventus team but didnīt mind the money at the time).
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Aren't "being employed by a club" and "playing first team football for a club" two different concepts. I imagine that the club could employ as many foreign players as they wish but could only field six of them at a time. I'm a Gooner and, though it may hurt us in the short term, I'm sure it is only right to do something. I'm all for the "homegrown" rule too.
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#31
Oh, you poor English. Everyone is against you. Nobody complained about Spanish clubs because there have been quotas in La Liga for some time. Surprised? The rule over there is even stricter than the one proposed by Blatter. It is actually 22+3, i.e. three players in the whole squad.
And this is the ultimate proof that quotas just do not work. Because
1) You cannot count players with EU citizenship.
2) By Kolpak ruling, you cannot count players from ACP countries. That means almost whole Africa, West Indies and the Pacific.
3) Almost any other player, mainly South Americans, has a dual citizenship.
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@ rastafairy #32.
Given that significantly reduced chances of playing would a) harm players careers and b) deter them from joining the club, the clubs and their highly-paid lawyers would win this one under EU law every time, under the principle of 'constructive violation'.
The EU is a 100% free-market, capitalist concept, ditto modern-day football, so the rule wouldn't stand a prayer
(and I'm a gooner too, and I'd rather have over-trying, well-disciplined, well-behaved foreign players like cesc, ade and RVP playing like they have for us than lazy, overpaid brit yobs. excellence 1, nationality 0, and when did we last have the papers reporting on one of ours misbehaving?)
@cfcjayjay #30; the reason why cricket's different is....there's only one EU nation playing cricket!
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I just can't believe FIFA / UEFA keep wasting everyone's time by bringing this up. It's been ruled on several times in several major cases ... Kolpak being a major one.
Without wanting to sound like a know it all, I did my Law Degre dissertation on EU law and football and I concluded amongst other things that it just amazing and ludicrous that idiots like Blatter keep on coming back saying the same old thing. And the public are no better, any such form of restrictions won't happen!!!
End of story. Can it never be mentioned again please.
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Any rule which restricts how many players from other EU countries could play in a team at the same time would clearly be illegal discrimination under EU law - even if the club could employ as many EU players as it wanted.
Imagine if a British company employed thousands of Irish workers, but stated that only two of them would be eligible for promotion because they wanted to reserve the rest of the senior places for Brits.
Or if a council decided that no more than two Irish could take the bus at the same time - the rest of the seats were reserved for the English.
We are not allowed to discriminate against citizens of other EU countries - it's one of the basic principles of the EU, and it applies to football players just as much as to anyone else.
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@ realityleak, No.24:
"As Blatter said - Man United met the criteria that Blatter sets out and they won the CL so why would it stifle other teams?"
United's squad that night was Van der Sar, Brown (Anderson 120), Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Hargreaves, Scholes (Giggs 87), Carrick, Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney (Nani 101).
Subs Not Used: Kuszczak, O'Shea, Fletcher, Silvestre. They might have STARTED complying with the 6+5 rule, but by penalties it had become 3+8. Indeed, NONE of their subs were English and the only other Englishman likely to make their first team is Gary Neville (who would have displaced Wes Brown!).
So they can hardly be said to have won the CL complying with his rule, can they? Although we should hardly be surprised if Blatter is talking nonsense again! ;-)
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"I imagine that the club could employ as many foreign players as they wish but could only field six of them at a time."
Who in the right mind would pay high fees and wages for foreign players only to put them in the bench?
Blatter's idea is not even lofty. He's a stubborn and arrogant sort of bloke. He thinks he can talk politicians into making one law of football players and one law for the rest. How naive?
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For anyone who has followed Cricket (or Rugby's) attempts to impose a quota it was obvious from the beginning that these suggestions wouldn't work under EU law. Indeed anyone who can remember the quotas on overseas players in European competitions that had to be scrapped, because of EU law, would also have a fair idea that this was going nowhere.
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Maybe I have misunderstood the facts behind this issue (someone correct me if I have) but I believe the central flaw in Blatter's initiative is his basis for determining "home grown" status.
If one uses nationality as the criteria, this is obviously going to fall foul of EU legislation that effectively creates a homogeneous economic zone without national barriers to citizens of any member state within said territory (actually it also includes EEA nationals plus Swiss residents).
However if "home grown" is defined exclusively in terms of club orientation - that is a player can come from anywhere in the world and be deemed as "home grown" because they have passed through the individual club's youth development scheme for a predetermined qualifying period that is an entirely different matter.
Thus, Cesc Fabregas (Catalan) would be deemed as a home grown player coming through the Arsenal youth system.
I (and I also suspect EU legislators) have no issue with that approach but I (and the EU) do have a massive problem with a policy defining a player as "home grown" exclusively on the basis of their Nationality (which is fast becoming irrelevant within an integrating pan-european environment anyway).
The main problem with this method is that such players could only be deemed as "home grown" for the club developing them. This would in turn influence the transfer market.
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Comment 1 is totally wrong, if you said you only wanted white people to play (or whatever) that is discrimination and it is illegal. DMRICH is talking rubbish.
Comment 2. To say that the foreign players are making our players better might be true but that is only the case if they are playing, the BBC report shows this week that 37% of players in the EPL are English and i can only see that figure getting lower as the rich teams buy for success.
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Taking Torres into account: should Fifa's rule come to play then the desire for raised standards will fall as English players will say there is no class so why improve my game?
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If England went to the European finals, such positive steps would not have been taken.
I would have dearly loved England to have qualified for Europe, but now I am not sure.
This is more then a silver lining. All we now need is to get the EC off our backs.
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As a Manchester United fan, I should be happy with these proposals. We already have a good number of English players and more importantly we have the resources to buy up new ones. If this goes through we and Chelsea will dominate the Premiership for as long as I can see. Aston Villa would be torn apart by bigger clubs in a feeding frenzy. Portsmouth would only have a couple of players left. But I'm against them.
Sorry if this offends, but in the vast majority English players are terrible. Not being English I don't even tune into England games. I never miss a Welsh game (as they are my home country) and I watch international football where I can because it's often very entertaining, but not England. They are an inferior product.
The amount of foreigners in the Premier League is the result of the poor quality of English players, not the cause. How else do you explain England's lack of success pre-1992? All this will do is kill the English game stone dead, or at least send it racing back to the 70s, when hoof-and-run was the name of the game. If that happens, I'll be watching the NFL.
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I do agree with Sepp Blatter that it would be desirable if league sides were to FIELD at least 6 players who qualify to play for their own national side. I don't think it necessarily conflicts with EU law in that there is no restriction on nationality OR employment. Arsenal, for example, could employ 20 French players if they wanted - but they could only field five of them in any one game.
Though I take the point about league sides then containing inferior English players, don't you then pursue why they are inferior? Because clubs are pursuing the foreign market under EU law and getting cheaper quality players. English lads are not getting playing experience. All this makes sound business sense but meanwhile the English national side is beginning to wither on the vine. If we don't do SOMETHING, in another generation we won't have enough gifted footballers to ever compete at top level again.
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Then you have the issue of "gaining" nationality. Players in Spain can obtain Spanish passports in potentially 2 years, its 5 in England and Scotland.
==========================
Actually rangers have met the proposed requirement in every game this season as have many teams in the SPL. A number of SPL clubs have developed youth academies over the last 5-10 years and it is now starting to show with the majority of teams already fitting the proposed criteria and of course the resurgence of the national side. However it did not require a UEFA rule for this to happen. It simply took the absence of TV money for a few seasons which meant clubs could not afford foreigners. This has actually benefited the teams in the SPL in the long run as young Scottish players are now becoming good enough to hold their own in the League, in Europe and at international level. Obviously England have higher aspirations at international level but it is a model to go by.
I agree with the FA, England should not just kick out the foreigners but should invest in youth. If the players coming through become good enough then they will get into the team anyway.
I still don't see how it is against the law though. It is not restricting employment whatsoever. Players do not need to start games to be employed by their club. You could have a squad of 25 with only 11 players eligible to start together at the one time but still not be breaking the rules. UEFA will not be restricting who clubs can employ, only which employees can take to the field. Players get paid either way so I can't see how their employment is being restricted.
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Tamales wrote...Oh, you poor English. Everyone is against you. Nobody complained about Spanish clubs because there have been quotas in La Liga for some time. Surprised? The rule over there is even stricter than the one proposed by Blatter. It is actually 22+3, i.e. three players in the whole squad.
Really!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I seem to remember Real Madrid in 2001- 2002 having in the squad..and regularly playing...
Figo - Portugal
Zidane - France
Roberto Carlos - Brazil
Steve Mc Manaman - English (yay!!!)
Geremi -Cameroon
Savio - Brazil
Maderia - Portugal
Makelele - France
Flavio Conceicao - Brazil
Seems more than 3!! I suppose they all became Spanish nationals to avoid the 22 + 3 limit. Ah yes...they have dual nationality..forgot.
As for now...I seem to recall there is
Dudek - Poland
Pepe - Brazil
Cannavaro - Italy
Already we are 3..but...
Marcelo - Brazil
Drenthe - the Netherlands
Heinze - Argentina
Metzelder - Germany
Diarra - Mali
Gago - Argentina
Robben - the Netherlands
Baptista Brazil
Sneijder - the Netherlands
Saviola - Argentina
Robinho - Brazil
Van Nistelrooy - the Netherlands
Higuain - France
Sorry pal.. I count only 9 Spanish players in the whole 25 squad...dammit..forgot the dual nationality bit again. It is a joke. What Blatter is proposing will just bring more into play this dual nationality scam more than ever. I suppose Real Madrid had to find a way to start winning again and this is it. I did not know Blatter was Spanish!!
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How will these regulations, assuming they are able to pass EU law, going to affect the other British temas (or indeed the Republic of Ireland team)?
For example how many Welsh players would have been elegable to play for England (i.e. through ancestry etc) before they chose to represent Wales and how many would be willing to play for Wales when to do so would immediatly restrict your elegability to play in the English Premier League?
I would guess that only one player in the Welsh team in recent years (Giggs) would be good enough to take one of the precious "Foreign" positions each club would have available, how will this help Welsh national football? Same for Scotland, would Man Utd keep Darren Fletcher ahead of Carlos Tevez let alone Christian Ronaldo?
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I am somewhat bemused by any objection to Blatter's original idea of a quota of home-grown players.
The general complaint seems to be that it breaks EU rules relating to free movement and treatment of employees, but there is no mention in his plan about employing players.
His idea relates ONLY to the starting line-up in each actual game.
Many players are currently employed by clubs but rarely make a starting appearance..... think Peter Crouch (9), Steve Sidwell (7), John O'Shea (10) or Vassiriki Diaby (9) - figures are the number of games STARTED out of a possible 38.
Can the employers of these players claim to treat them equally in comparison to their other employees??
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The whole point of this is to end the monopoly that foreign players have over each league, NOT to build Hadrian's wall and start a Nazi retreat. I for one, an Arsenal supporter, have been waiting for such a thing to happen for years now. My only complaint is that it can't be imposed soon enough, so we'll all have to endure another four tedious seasons of predictability and passionless play.
Some of the rubbish being put forward against the idea is extraordinarily asinine to read. Nuggets of wisdom such as "would Man Utd keep Darren Fletcher ahead of Carlos Tevez let alone Christian Ronaldo?", and "You are in essence filling teams with worse english players.", completely miss the bigger issue here - that English players are not being given the chance to develop in the big leagues that foreign players, many of whom were technically weaker than their English counterparts when they first came over, are being afforded. We're not missing out on international competitions due to any discernable lack of talent, far from it. We're missing out because we NEVER PLAY domestically (sorry, Mitchell and Webb).
And anyway, the proposal is so evenly balanced that United won't have to choose to pass up on Christiano Ronaldo. All this means is that the CHAFF from overseas won't get a chance. Those against the idea are generally blind to the fact that there are actually quite a few, get this, BAD players from abroad who still play undeservedly for the big teams to justify their enormous paycheques.
Sepp Blatter is so wrong, so often. This time, he's right. Now, FIFA, don't get spineless like a certain Prime Minister of ours. See this plan through, for the sake of the game.
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Re BulletMonkey
"Nuggets of wisdom such as "would Man Utd keep Darren Fletcher ahead of Carlos Tevez let alone Christian Ronaldo?", completely miss the bigger issue here "...
Actually, if you read my question, I was asking about the effect on the smaller Federations such as Wales and Scotland which has been largely ignored in the whole debate over this proposal. Which to me is looking at the "Bigger Picture" and not just England centered.
This proposal will, I believe, hurt these smaller "National" teams rather than help them. It is ironic that this vote was held in Australia when this countries recent success is largely based on players getting experience in the English Leagues.
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People need to listen what Blatter is saying "home-grown" is any player from any nationality who's been @ the club for 3 or more years bewteen the age of 16 and 21. So all the major clubs in world will start and some already do, particularly Arsenal and Barcs is take all the young promising players from around the world put them in their youth system for the 3 years required and hope they turn into the world class players they were expecting. If look @ Arsenal that's wot wenger been doing for the last 3 or 4 years. The likes of Cesc, Eboube, clicy are all "foreign" but would be classed as "Home-grown" under Blatter rules. As a Liverpool Fan I could never understand why Rafa was buying alot of 17's 18's 19's year old youth players, now it makes sense. A more interesting rule would be that national teams could only field 6 + 5. By that I mean 6 players who play in their own National league and 5 players who make their living in foreign leagues ?
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I'm wondering if I'm missing something here. If the 6+5 rule is brought in, then how does it affect employment law. Clubs can still employ anybody they like, pay wages etc. If a club wanted they could have a squad with 6 home players and 25 overseas players. Nobody is saying that overseas players can't be bought or sold or employed by any club, just that a club cannot put more than 5 into their first team. Does this still contravene EU law? And for the record, 'home' players should be defined as qualifying to play for the national federation, rather than 'have dual nationality'. It does make a difference
I like the proposal. All this talk of damaging quality is rubbish - how many English players did the United side that just won the Champions League have in it? Brown, Ferdinand, Hargreaves, Carrick, Rooney, Scholes. The best club side in Europe already conforms to this rule. How can it reduce quality? What it does is gives the best young English players from championship and lower end of the Premier league more chance to play because they will not be dropped in favour of mediocre overseas players. In turn , they are more likely to get experience, may be the odd one get picked up be a Champions League club and get into the national side.
As for poorer nations like Australia (post 51) its important to remember that had these players stayed in Aus, that would have improved the quality of their league, thus other 'home' players and coaching and development has to improve = long term benefit. Wheres the advantage to the Australin league when as soon as anybody good turns up they imediately leave the country. ONly the very best will now be snapped up by Europe, the merely good will be left behind and improve the game in these countries.
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"just that a club cannot put more than 5 into their first team. Does this still contravene EU law?"
That's discrimination based on nationality. Sorry. Nice try but it's illegal.
The law is the law. Clubs and leagues will be sued out of existence.
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Phil Bardsley
Wes Brown
Rio Ferdinand
Gary Neville
Danny Simpson
Michael Carrick
Christopher Eagles
Owen Hargreaves
Paul Scholes
Goncalves Manucho
Wayne Rooney
The FA will probabble agree to some kind of maximum but the above are all English.
Arsenal must be worried.
The reds go marvchig on.
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For those wondering about the Spanish rule; the limit has always been on 3 NON-EU players, as this is the only thing that can be controlled. There has not (in recent times) been a limit on Europeans playing in the Spanish League.
While the rule could not be bought in on the basis of nationality (anybody doubting that, please read one of the many posts above which clearly explains it), #53 makes a good point that it COULD be done based upon whether a player is home grown; this is the basis upon which limits for domestic- and club-produced players are implemented in European squads, and is also I believe part of the scheme introduced by the ECB to attempt to limit the number of foreigners in English cricket.
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55 fivepoundshake
Goncalves Manucho is from Angola... D'oh!
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