US demands answers from Toyota
Every snow cloud has a silver lining, and Toyota could use a little slither of light at the moment. Because of the weather the first planned investigation by politicians of the recalls has been put off.
But the agony has merely been postponed. Toyota are just getting another two weeks to answer suggestions that they still don't know what has gone wrong. Some senators are pressing for their own inquiry into whether the company and the government acted fast enough.
Toyota is running a wholesome all-American TV ad attempting to combine reassurance with profound apology, but it is likely to be washed away in the growing flood of bad news stories. US officials are investigating yet another possible flaw in the cars once known for their safety.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Association is examining 83 complaints that the Corolla can veer left or right at over 40mph (65km/h). They have to investigate the complaints and haven't decided to hold a full-blown inquiry. But the agency itself is being criticised for being slow off the mark investigating the sticky brake problem, so they seem likely to err on the side of caution.
The company has to tread very carefully. When I was based in Europe I was constantly told by politicians that it was hopelessly outdated of me to talk about Toyota as a Japanese carmaker. It was, they said, a global company, which had become one of Europe's largest businesses, employing 4,000 British workers.
Toyota says it employs 172,000 people in the US (the vast majority in dealerships), but there is no feeling, at least in the media, that it is anything but a foreign firm. That is perhaps because the USA has a car manufacturing industry of its own, and the UK doesn't any more. But I wouldn't be surprised if American carmakers in Detroit were feeling just a tinge of schadenfreude.
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~46~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Yes, but see the rumors of corporate sabotage as well...
Complain about this comment
Toyota has been an example of corporate excellence in North America going back to the Crown Custom, the Corona, and the Celica back in the late 1960's and early 1970's.
The cars are intelligently designed to be reliable and easy to service. Anyone who has ever worked on them knows this.
When you think of the misbehaviour that was tolerated for decades in North America, the contrasting haste and zeal with which Toyota is being nailed to the cross just reeks of protectionism.
Complain about this comment
"US officials are investigating yet another possible flaw in the cars once known for their safety."
I don't recall that Toyotas were particularly known for their safety, but Japanese automobiles generally were thought to be of higher quality all-around. This was certainly true in the 1970s, the nadir of US automotive design. Since then, US automobiles have improved somewhat, and Japanese automobiles have continued their generally high level of design and workmanship.
The problem here seems to be related to the increased computerization of engine controls in the past ten years or so. This is a complex area which is completely hidden. There is no way for a consumer to evaluate the workmanship that went into the engine control computer.
Complain about this comment
This has done major damage to Toyota's reputation, although if they can find what exactly the problem is, there is still a chance they could make a big comeback. The USA loves a good comeback story, as does the world. However, it will take some time to earn the public's trust again. Nothing is scarier than hearing about the cars with the speeding accelerator, the steeling wheel swerving and the brakes that don't work.
Almost straight out of Stephen King's "Christine."
The problem still hasn't been identified, although many suspect it is the new computerization system malfunctioning. This system may possibly be used in other vehicles, as well. There should be a thorough inspection of what exactly has went wrong. Most new Toyotas will stay in the lot until the problem is identified and solved.
In the meantime, Toyota's competitors are getting a huge boost. Myself, I drive a Pontiac. I think I'll stick with the tried and true American brands.
Complain about this comment
On NPR radio the other day, the guest was the "car guy" from the Washington Post, who was very critical of Toyota. One interesting comment he made was that the media had failed to do its job. It had assumed that Toyota produced superior vehicles and, thus, didn't dig deep enough into the complaints, which were certainly there. He said Toyota has amazing PR guys in the US.
Sounds familiar.
Complain about this comment
Lucy -- Not a Pontiac Vibe? Which is in all critical aspects identical to a Toyota Matrix.
American? Japanese? Not much difference anymore.
Complain about this comment
Pontiac Grand Prix. I used to drive a Firebird, which is one of the coolest cars ever invented. Sadly, neither are being made anymore. But they are great cars, built well and with quality.
There is a difference. You do not see Fords or Chevys being recalled...
Complain about this comment
What will the unions at toyota make of this? What, no unions? So why is toyota being singled out? I wonder what this is all about and how it might end.
Complain about this comment
Found some stats about "Most Vehicle Recalls by Make and Model"
http://www.recallowl.com/interesting_stats.php
but not really sure what this proves!
Complain about this comment
"Pontiac Grand Prix. I used to drive a Firebird, which is one of the coolest cars ever invented. Sadly, neither are being made anymore. But they are great cars, built well and with quality.
There is a difference. You do not see Fords or Chevys being recalled..."
LucyIllinois you can't be serious unless you truly have forgotten about the Pontiac Fiero.
Complain about this comment
I have owned only Toyota vehicles for the past twenty years. They have all
been highly dependable and I have had zero safety issues in that time.
Toyota certainly are having some quality problems at present. Also they are finding
that in becoming 'number one' they have created a rod for their own back.
I believe that they can come back from this setback because they have a solid base of loyal repeat customers, like myself, who see no reason to change to
another brand anytime soon.
Other car manufacturers should beware of piling it on: they will find
themselves being held to the same recall standards as Toyota. A bad batch of
computer chips is all it takes.
Complain about this comment
The problem for Toyota is the perception that it hasn't really found the source of the sticky brake.
Complain about this comment
You know, these companies are all one big family. Sure, they duke it out in the marketplace but, in the final analysis, it's all ebb and flow. One company gains this decade, another one the next, so on and so forth. What doesn't change is their increasing share of your wallet. Someone mentioned the Vibe earlier. It's the Toyota Vibe and Pontiac Matrix, right? Oh well!
Complain about this comment
Mark:
I am glad, that the US Authorities are demanding answers from
TOYOTA in the recent recalls of the vehicles...But, I am skeptical with the company....
=Dennis Junior=
Complain about this comment
Schadenfreude is the word. I've heard what amounts to crowing by American commentators that two 'foreign' car companies are in trouble and could face a market disaster in the USA. But these two 'foreign' companies, as Mark points out, employ thousands of Americans: Toyota 35,000 in manufacturing in five states, 115,000 in dealerships. Honda employs 27,000 Americans in manufacturing.
So who gets hurt when the Congress gets going with all its members yelling hysterical soundbites about Japanese death traps and so on when the snow melts and Toyota and Honda go down the tubes?
To put some of this in perspective, there have been, what, a couple of hundred incidents of the 'sticky' accelerator problem; fewer over the ABS braking software -- which as far as I can tell doesn't involve anything approaching brake failure --there have been 12 incidents involving the Honda airbag, only one of which involved a death in a road accident, and it's not clear the airbag was the cause. Far more Americans have probably died or been worse injured in the same period slipping on the soap getting out of the bath or shower. Or from choking on a twiglet. (Pretzel?)
For every two who die on the roads, including cyclists and pedestrians, in the USA--which has a very high motor vehicle accident death rate, over 40,000 a year and most of those die because of alcohol, speeding, or plain bad driving and not wearing seat belts or crash helmets, not mechanical failure--one will die as the result of a fall. More Americans will die through respiratory ailments than through driving, or being driven over or into. And we won't even mention the number of people who get themselves shot.
Complain about this comment
9. _marko:
I think it tells us that Ford and GM have each recalled more vehicles than either Toyota or Honda. I did think of going into it further, but I don't drive any more, so I'm not that bothered, so somebody else can sort that out if they want.
Complain about this comment
15:
I've also just discovered that for every two Americans who die accidentally on the roads, one will die of accidental poisoning, which seems rather startling. Maybe Congress ought to open an investigation on that?
Complain about this comment
This looks eerily similar to the Japan-bashing that was so prevalent in America in the 1980's. The American economy is in trouble, its auto industry was (is) in dire straights. The US government is the major shareholder in GM and Chrysler. The Democrats are in power, and they have always been protectionist. Due to trade agreements they can no longer impose tariffs or arbitrarily stop imports, so this is either a very fortunate coincidence for America--or it has been carefully and cleverly orchestrated.
And of course the Western media, including the BBC is only too happy to gleefully join in the Japan-bashing every chance they get. In my long life I have seen many auto recalls, most by GM, Ford and Chrysler. I have never seen 1/100 of the media coverage that I have seen in the last couple of weeks on Toyota. I see no accident statistics from insurance companies. I see no explanation why the US Dept. of Transport did not order a recall of those cars if (as they say) they knew about the problems in 2007.
This whole thing stinks to high heaven, and not all of the bad smells come from Toyota or Honda. Most of it comes from the Obama administration and the media.
Complain about this comment
It seems that as Japanese car manufacturers (such as Honda and Toytoa) become bureaucratic bloated behemoths like General Motors, they start to perform just like GM.
Another Japanese govermenment bail-out in the offing?
Just like in case of JAL, now to be taken over by American Airlines?
Complain about this comment
So does over-playing the risk of a perceived foreign brand of danger (as opposed to a potentially greater domestic source) help or hinder America?
Complain about this comment
Re #2 InterestedForeighner wrote:
"When you think of the misbehaviour that was tolerated for decades in North America, the contrasting haste and zeal with which Toyota is being nailed to the cross just reeks of protectionism."
Particularly if complains about Toyoto cover-up multiply not only in Australia, EU and U.S., but also in...JAPAN? :-))))))))))))))))))))))))))
P.S. Obviously complains about lead and melamine-tainted Chinese products (including food) also reek of protectionism, right? ;)
Complain about this comment
"American? Japanese? Not much difference anymore"
Have you ever driven a Corvette, a Hummer, a TownCar?
Those cars are giving you a distinctly different feeling that Corolla.
Or Lemon Prius.
["Oh, what a feeling to drive - Toyota!"]
Complain about this comment
"How about unions reactions" somebody asks?
Why? Toytota manufactures mostly in the states which have "right to work" laws. In other words- no unions.
Something socialists should think about. Hard. :)
Complain about this comment
squirrelist writes:
"I've also just discovered that for every two Americans who die accidentally on the roads, one will die of accidental poisoning, which seems rather startling. Maybe Congress ought to open an investigation on that?"
No, it's not startling at all. Considering a volume of Chinese food products and toys sold in American stores.
And yes, U.S. Congress has already started an investigation of that threat.
And many others emanating from PRC.
BTW. We've already created CyberCommand. So relax! :-)
Complain about this comment
Japanese companies have always been slow to admit quality problems. Not too many years ago Mitsubishi had problems with wheels falling off light trucks and passenger car engines expiring in clouds of smoke. When the excrement hit the air-moving device numerous executives who had been aware of the problems were sacked, and 5 year warranties introduced to try to win back market share. It didn't work.
Every thing I've read about this points to poor quality control. The sticking accelerator problem has been explained (by Toyota) as being caused by a component made in China, where poor quality control is endemic. Toyota says it can be fixed by the fitting of a shim. This indicates excessive tolerance in the original manufacturing process.I wonder how many other Chinese-made components are in our "Japanese" cars.
Complain about this comment
Would the Toyota recalls be happening or be so publicized if the US government didn't literally own General Motors and have a large stake in Chrysler?
Complain about this comment
Another shock horror this AM> Hmm. It was reading over the months about the behaviours of business people all over the globe. And that several particularly American CEOs are creeping back into the spotlight and not serving fries at their local takeaway either. And a seeming "promise" made last year and reported not denied was bogus - but which has just broken from someone over there, Mark.
I just report a comment by the comedian Jon Stewart on his Daily Show a few days back. "We (the American Car Industry) are back! All we had to do is report that the opposition car makers produce "deathtraps!". It was a very bleak joke. Yes I am sure it was. It says just those words on the palm of my hand in case I forget the bullet points of my text to those over there.
I am off to Scarborough UnFair
Complain about this comment
The USA has a strict safety regime based around the NHTSA which has acted in a far more effective way in the current Toyota recall than it's UK counterpart, the low-profile VOSA;
But it is worth remembering that this strong regime is a result of the woeful attitude to safety and consumer protection that applied to the US domestic industry in the seventies and before. The (Ford) Pinto and (GM) Corvair sagas sum this up - and really put the current problems of Toyota into perspective.
Complain about this comment
Obviously Toota dropped the ball and has explaining to do. both on quality control and their response time. I am very relieved because i almost bought a Prius a few years ago.
BuT I would like to see if those asking for inquiries come from states with big us automaker factories and union influence.
I am still more willing to give Toyota a chance than ever buy a GM or Crysler model.
Complain about this comment
Re #25:
"Not too many years ago Mitsubishi had problems with wheels falling off light trucks and passenger car engines expiring in clouds of smoke."
60 years ago Mitsubishi Zero models had a problem of sometimes falling on U.S. Navy ships.
The issue was resolved by disassembling Mitsubishi's plant in Nagasaki.
Complain about this comment
Re #29
"I am still more willing to give Toyota a chance than ever buy a GM or Crysler model."
Get yourself a Jeep Grand Cherokee.
Much more dependable than Prius. Especially this winter :-)
Complain about this comment
Why is it that when a foreign company with a reputation for excellence, dependability and customer satisfaction has a problem it suddenly becomes the object of a congressional investigation? Could it be that the easiest way to save our struggling domestic auto industry is to destroy the competition?
I have owned TOYOTAS, Hondas, and Mitsubishis for decades and never had a problem. They are price competitive, reliable and fuel efficient and I plan to continue buying them.
Complain about this comment
Magic # 29,
Glad you are not giving up on foreign products. Trade has always been a two-way street.
But is it patriotic to completely reject American cars? Why not support both sides. Compromise. Spread your bets and buy a Japanese-American one.
Try a MitsuBUSHY.
Complain about this comment
How badly will a drop in sales in the US hit Toyota? I've been trawling for sales figures that show what percentage of Toyota's business is in the US, but can't find it.
Anyhow I can't see GM or Ford benefiting too much outside the US from this. They are still years behind from insisting on building cars that go with engines that for environmental reasons either can't be sold elsewhere or incur punitive tax rates. When GM and Ford start competing with Japanese and Korean car companies is South East Asia, then they'll be back.
Complain about this comment
Ref 29, Magic
"I am still more willing to give Toyota a chance than ever buy a GM or Crysler model."
I am too, but I suspect your decision has little to do with the track record and efficiencies of TOYOTA and much to do with the fact that about one third of the GM, Ford and Chrysler workforce is union. Am I right?
The problems that are auto industry is having are caused by many reasons, but labor costs, as high as they are, only constitute 10% of the cost of making a car in Detroit. The rest involves infrastructure, modernization/automation, design, interest payment on the debt, high executive compensation, the exhorbitant cost of legacy pensions (union and non-union), and lousy foreign and domestic investments. Add to that their decision to have multiple competing products, fuel inefficiency, lack of long term planning, and poor quality control and you have a major problem in your hands.
Complain about this comment
ref #33
watermanaquarius wrote:
Magic # 29,
Glad you are not giving up on foreign products. Trade has always been a two-way street.
But is it patriotic to completely reject American cars? Why not support both sides. Compromise. Spread your bets and buy a Japanese-American one.
Try a MitsuBUSHY.
ref #35
SaintDominick wrote:
Ref 29, Magic
"I am still more willing to give Toyota a chance than ever buy a GM or Crysler model."
I am too, but I suspect your decision has little to do with the track record and efficiencies of TOYOTA and much to do with the fact that about one third of the GM, Ford and Chrysler workforce is union. Am I right?
________________
My first was a corolla which laster 250,000 miles.
In answer to your union question, I feel they are a drag on the economy and I resent being asked to fund lazy parasties who sit on their butts.
But I would look at Ford as they did not take the bailout.
I will not buy GM or chrysler on prinipal, they should have filed chapter 11.
Complain about this comment
My wife and I are planning to buy a car later this year. Maybe Toyota will have some incentive programs to regain business? One thing I know for sure is that we won't be buying a GM or Chrysler model.
Complain about this comment
"When I was based in Europe I was constantly told by politicians that it was hopelessly outdated of me to talk about Toyota as a Japanese carmaker. It was, they said, a global company, which had become one of Europe's largest businesses"
Well that explains right there why the car has morphed into a piece of junk. A Japanese "Fix It Again Tony." About 15 years ago, after a minor accident involving a Nissam Maxima owned by a family member showed its exterior panels were hardly much thicker or sturdier than aluminum foil. Keeping economy up by shortchanging the design of adequate material is a false economy many Americans would reject. When the Japanese cars were cheap, simple, unpretentious economy compacts and subcompacts they could claim a certain market niche where cost was the only consideration. But a serious car accident I was in 20 years ago demonstrated to me that my life was worth far more than saving some money. I would not drive a compact or subcompact car on an American highway. Not with those big rigs traveling at high speed. Had I not been in a mid sized very sturdy American car or larger, I would not have survived. Buy and drive at your own risk. Americans should also know that what they save on gas in these economy cars is offset by higher insurace premiums due to the greater risk of serious injury or death in an accident.
NHTSA did not do its job this time. It should have been all over Toyota like flies on rice at the first sign of problems with the accelerator. Japanese engineering is far from infallable. It's a miracle someone wasn't already killed as a result of this defect.
Complain about this comment
22. At 07:10am on 10 Feb 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Those cars are giving you a distinctly different feeling that Corolla.
Or Lemon Prius. ["Oh, what a feeling to drive - Toyota!"]"
29. At 09:55am on 10 Feb 2010, MagicKirin wrote:
"Obviously To[y]ota dropped the ball and has explaining to do. both on quality control and their response time. I am very relieved because i almost bought a Prius a few years ago. ..."
__________
Well, I own a Prius, and have done for five years. I am getting ready to buy another (so we'll have his & hers) as soon as they come out with a plug-in.
It took a while to get used to. But now I think it is the best car I have ever owned. I love this car.
There is a reason why it was rated the best buy of any car on the market for several years running. It is an absolutely outstanding product.
It improves the way you drive - even when you are driving your other car - because it teaches you where your driving habits are wasteful.
It carries tons of stuff inside, it is really good in tight spaces. And at slow speed I love it when it runs silently. I love the smooth electric motor torque curve when you start up silently from a stop. (Can't wait to buy a Tesla Roadster: silent all the time, 0 - 60 in 4 seconds).
Wonderful, wonderful car.
Complain about this comment
Ref 36, Magic
"In answer to your union question, I feel they are a drag on the economy and I resent being asked to fund lazy parasties who sit on their butts."
Since my experience with unions is limited to collective bargaining agreement negotiations, representing the company I worked for, and as a manager I feel somewhat awkward to defend those that sat on the other side of the bargaining table, but since our differences were strictly professional and there was little or no animosity between us, I feel compelled to come to their defense.
Most union workers are not "lazy parasites who sit on their butts", they are Americans like you and I who work hard, take pride in their work, and do everything they can to contribute to the welfare of the companies they work for and ensure customer satisfaction. Some hope to move into management, others simply want to make sure they have a job and earn enough to support their families.
Assembly line workers, and all other workers for that matter, are monitored by supervisors that ensure work is done correctly, efficiently and on time. Those that slack off are written up and if the problem persists they are fired.
Your constant hateful attacks against fellow Americans, and the world at large, suggest that you either had a bad experience that you, incorrectly, blame on people that in all likelihood had nothing to do with your problem, or that you need to reflect on what you are saying and gain some experience on the topics you discuss before you voice an opinion.
Complain about this comment
People should feel safe in their vehicles. Who wants a cheap vehicle? You want the quality vehicle that will save your life. Of course, they say that the older Toyotas and Hondas are fine. It is only the new ones that are defecting. SO it is whatever they have changed- that is where the problem is taking place.
The Japanese need to step away from going the 'cheap' route. Quality is more important than quanity. You just have to put in the effort. Do things the right way.
Complain about this comment
This situation is a further reflection of what happens in an over-heated economy like the one that the bankers created. Higher demand requires higher production, thus lower quality control...making money while it is there to be made. Most countries have some agency designated to make safety tests of automobiles but the influence of the major car producers make these agencies more friend to the industry than protector of the people. The question is what happened to the early complaints and why didn't the internal safety agencies recognize these problems and if they did why wasn't anyone told. Protect the producer or protect the people...we all know the answer to that. Governments grew to protect people from the abuses of business and now the governments protect the businesses from the complaints of the people.
Complain about this comment
ref #40
"In answer to your union question, I feel they are a drag on the economy and I resent being asked to fund lazy parasties who sit on their butts."
Since my experience with unions is limited to collective bargaining agreement negotiations, representing the company I worked for, and as a manager I feel somewhat awkward to defend those that sat on the other side of the bargaining table, but since our differences were strictly professional and there was little or no animosity between us, I feel compelled to come to their defense.
_________________
Please address the job bank which was an agreement made that unemployed autoworkers would be paid 80% of union wages for sitting on their butts.
If that is still going on, why should tax payers fund it with 10% unemployment.
I do not hate a large portion of the American population your contempt for Sarah Palin and Tea party people could be looked at the same way.
Complain about this comment
Now, what's that I hear about steering wheels in them Japanese jobs?
Complain about this comment
Lucy 41
"Who wants a cheap vehicle?"
Actually, you have come to the very heart of the problem in much of our world today..... everyone wants everything cheap and they want it now. And then they also want the quality and reliability as well.
Can't have both. If Americans really wanted quality and to support US jobs and so on ... then there would be no market for cheap foreign-made products .... but bottom line is "we want it cheap".
(disclaimer - this line of argument is meant generally, and is not a specific suggestion that Toyota Prius is a low quality or cheap product.)
Complain about this comment
Ref 43, Magic
"...your contempt for Sarah Palin and Tea party people could be looked at the same way."
If you can't see the difference between saying that Sarah Palin is unqualified to be President or questioning the legitimacy and intent of the Tea Party movement, and you denigrating all union workers and anyone that does not share your views then there is no point discussing this any further.
Complain about this comment
Ref 40 SaintDominick-
(Your response to MagicKirin #36)
"Since my experience with unions is limited to collective bargaining agreement negotiations, representing the company I worked for, and as a manager I feel somewhat awkward to defend those that sat on the other side of the bargaining table, but since our differences were strictly professional and there was little or no animosity between us, I feel compelled to come to their defense."
As a retired union worker I do not think you should feel awkward in the least defending the collective bargaining process. You stated the case very well.
Both union and management sit down and negotiate a contract stating what is expected of each other for the good of the business. Work rules and procedures are defined, job titles and responsibilities are defined, the steps to be taken for disciplinary actions are set; training, transfer, and promotional opportunities are defined; along with benefits and wages.
The two groups, who have bargained in good faith, have a legal contract which is beneficial to both parties. Each knows what is expected of the other as laid down in the terms of the contract. Management uses the contract to plan their budget and productivity. Labor uses the contract to clearly define how labor is exploited, in a reasonable manner, to accomplish productivity.
When there are disputes that arise; there is a clear path as to how those disputes are addressed and resolved so issues do not get out of hand and adversely affect productivity.
It is a contractual relationship. Each party must agree to the terms and sign the contract, without duress, in order for the contract to be valid. It has been my experience that those who complain most about the unfairness of a contract, whether management or labor, are only admitting to their own weakness as a negotiator and their own inability to act within the parameters of the contract to which they have agreed.
Those who have read any number of MagicKirin's posting on this blog will see that this is an inflexible person who is unable to compromise on most any issue. Can it be any wonder MagicKirin would have trouble negotiating a contract; and managing a business within the terms of that contract?
Complain about this comment
"2. At 02:49am on 10 Feb 2010, Interestedforeigner wrote:
Toyota has been an example of corporate excellence in North America going back to the Crown Custom, the Corona, and the Celica back in the late 1960's and early 1970's.
The cars are intelligently designed to be reliable and easy to service. Anyone who has ever worked on them knows this.
When you think of the misbehaviour that was tolerated for decades in North America, the contrasting haste and zeal with which Toyota is being nailed to the cross just reeks of protectionism."
Well said Interested forner.
exactly what I am seeing.
personally It will not effect my relationship with my Toyota Van.;)
which is great.
second hand and almost 300 000 miles on the clock. Just had it's first started coil changed.
However Toyota will have to face that reaction.
Americans like their forners to be better than they are;)
Lol Gherkin. what DO you do for employment?
simple answer. and does it involve sitting on your butt?
because many union workers are on their feet all day.
Many of the Government employees you like to deride are as well. in all sorts of weather for many of them as well.
I suspect you spend rather a lot of time on your but. even when not skiing.
35 LOL you are right.
OH GOD not MA "My car has the handling of a lead balloon and when I applied the breaks it went flying around in a circle because the rear end was almost as big as the front end. cause we need BIG cars to fit into. blah blah."
BooT
sorry that was Canadian for american car.
3 Gary
" The problem here seems to be related to the increased computerization of engine controls in the past ten years or so"
exactly.
well said.
if it can't be fixed with hammer then it can't be fixed.
;)
computers that are taking over soo many aspects of life.
programmed by people.
they are not infallible. but people forget that when they put their trust in them.
Fly by wire
30
oh the humour of the PMK
"disassembling Mitsubishi's plant in Nagasaki."
so it's time we can start making jokes about solving New yorks real estate problem by flying planes into them?
We solved new yorks image problem by flying planes into the trade towers. Who can remember crime city now?
How we solved Gherkins over paid federal employees by streamlining the fire department in new york ?
I ask these offensive questions because they seem appropriate to illustrate why joking about dropping a nuke on a city of mainly women and children and old people is not appropriate.
Complain about this comment
Considering how badly the work force in Detroit is suffering from all the layoffs in the last decade, is it any wonder there is a happy glow coming from Toyota's competitors? When one considers that much of what drove people to buy Japanese or foreign cars was reliability and safety, the shock at this recall is not as surprising nor the reaction so alarming as many people believe.
Protectionism? Most assuredly, but I would say that at least in some part it is protection of the people rather than the economy. I have no doubt you, as a Briton, are familiar with the term "nanny-state" Mr. Mardell. It was a colleague of yours who introduced me to the term.
An over-reaction? Arguable, until one takes into consideration the fact that the United States Government is now the major shareholder in GM and Chrysler and therefore the government must now 'protect' its trillion dollar investment (that would be after all is said and done and inflation is taken into account a decade from now).
@40 SaintDominick
My experience with unions has been with corrupt simpletons bent on self-gratification via oppression and intimidation of a workforce that our nation relied on for some several decades. That would be the United Auto Workers. Comparatively higher wages and 'excessive' benefits renders that union as a workforce so economically inefficient as to be suicidal. Now, that depends too on the smaller faction inside the UAW as well. They do indeed differ widely on actions. That your experience is different gives me hope that labour organizers are not totally corrupt, but the well is still poisoned. If the wages that the workers for Ford, GM, et cetera were competitive with the non-union workers at the Toyota plants I would not take such a dim view. As it stands, however, the wage difference remains as does my animosity.
Complain about this comment
I am in agreeance, RomeStu. There are far too many companies nowadays all around the world who only care about cheapness and money. Where is the quality? Where is the care for what product you are selling? Doesn't safety matter the most? It should...
This should be a wake-up call for all companies who are doing things the cheap way. They may save money initially, but in the long run, they will lose it all to being sued, no one buying their products, ect.
Are you listening, corporations????? Stop giving us cheap!!!!!
I would rather have a six-pack of good beer than a 24-pack of cheap beer. Or one bottle of quality wine vs. several bottles of cheap wine.
Quality counts. We do care.
Complain about this comment
Cheap vehicle.. what is so expensive about throwing in a 40 year old engine in a 40 year old truck design?
Gherkin there are very simple and easy to understand reasons why many think Palin thicker than week old gravy
Complain about this comment
Maybe SOOO many people are buying Toyotas that is why there are issues.
Maybe If American cars were any better on milage as well as cup holders and in vehicle entertainment systems, we would be hearing about the american recalls.
Oh wait hey haven't made anything for some time now.
still If toyota is to resort to going back to old designs they can. GM can't.
Toyota just has to re introduce the four banger truck and van and they would get loads of sales.
and honda can re release the honda civic 1990 and still get 45 MPG.
Just saying , if you are going to stick with old designs then of course there will be no issues.
Complain about this comment
Ref. 17, squirrelist:
"I've also just discovered that for every two Americans who die accidentally on the roads, one will die of accidental poisoning, which seems rather startling."
Yes, indeed.
I don't suppose you could share your source with us?
Complain about this comment
seanspa (#8) "So why is toyota being singled out?"
Perhaps because Toyota accounts for about 40% of all reports of unintended acceleration, far more than their share of the automobiles on the road.
Complain about this comment
25 bill daley
"This indicates excessive tolerance in the original manufacturing process.I wonder how many other Chinese-made components are in our "Japanese" cars."
you should also question how many american products are made in China.
how many American cars are american?
It is not just the Japanese that have had QQ problems.
singling them out is as IF suggests a tad protectionist.
Complain about this comment
32. SaintDominick:
'"Why is it that when a foreign company with a reputation for excellence, dependability and customer satisfaction has a problem it suddenly becomes the object of a congressional investigation?"
********************
This isn't an unjustified attack on Toyota. It has had a serious problem with the gas pedals, which it didn't address adequately. Our National Highway Traffic Safety Administration didn't do much either.
Toyota produces superior vehicles except for the ones that kill people. Until now, that's only been a problem for the ones killed. Now, it's Toyota's problem, too, and rightly so.
Complain about this comment
ref #47
As a retired union worker I do not think you should feel awkward in the least defending the collective bargaining process. You stated the case very well.
______________
And as long as the car companies as opposed to the tax payers are paying for your cushy deal; fine. But the minute a tax payer has to pay for it that changes the whole equation.
That is why many of us who proudly are non union feel we should not bail out a deal which benefits a small minority of workers.
Complain about this comment
ref #46
If you can't see the difference between saying that Sarah Palin is unqualified to be President or questioning the legitimacy and intent of the Tea Party movement, and you denigrating all union workers and anyone that does not share your views then there is no point discussing this any further.
____________
first you have never other than his supposed intellect given reason that makes Obama so qualified as oppsed to Palin superior resume.. Or that the Tea Party does not reprsent citizen grassroot at its finest.
My beef is not with Union workers but Union orginization and the thuggary it reprsents. Kudos for the SEIU nominee being rejected.
We need modern day Pinkertons to fight the SEIU leadership!
Complain about this comment
GH1618 wrote:
seanspa (#8) "So why is toyota being singled out?"
Perhaps because Toyota accounts for about 40% of all reports of unintended acceleration, far more than their share of the automobiles on the road.
Precisely.
Now 'bout those steering wheels.
Complain about this comment
Ref 57 MagicKirin-
"And as long as the car companies as opposed to the tax payers are paying for your cushy deal; fine. But the minute a tax payer has to pay for it that changes the whole equation."
Your unsupported conclusion that I had worked for the auto companies as a union worker is incorrect. The major corporation from which I retired did not get a single penny of Government bailout money, nor did they ask for any. Apparently the contracts I had worked under were reasonable and well planned for by management when they created their budgets.
Why do you continue to blame the unions for the failures of the U.S. automotive industry? Labor unions do not run the business. Management runs the business. The management of General Motors and Chrysler failed to manage their business in a profitable manner. If they were paying too high a cost for union labor; then it was their lack of management and negotiating skills that placed them onto the path of their failure. These two corporations were likely paying too high a cost for management positions as well. Especially so when one considers that they were over-paying for an inept management who drove them into the ground.
Complain about this comment
@58
MagicKirin,
While I cannot fault you for your argument and indeed understand your sentiment I must say that hiring the Pinkertons, while EFFECTIVE, normally ended in a bloody mess. If you wish to avoid thuggary, don't go that route. Discrediting unions and labor organizers as socialist or subversive was quite a bit more effective on all fronts in America historically.
Complain about this comment
So it's right to keep quiet on the 60% of the problems then. Would these 60% be 'american'?
Complain about this comment
15 Spot on Squirrelist
"More Americans will die through respiratory ailments than through driving, or being driven over or into"
yep and the extra fumes caused by the gas guzzling American cars contribute greatly to this;)
Complain about this comment
24 Pkity
you go on and on about others. always saying how they poisoned your food.
but last year the big food recalls in the USA were peanuts and salads. ALL produced in the USA.
so stop the bigoted crap
your post should be removed. it is just another troll in the bigotry direction.
inflame some more anti Chinese feeling. why?
are you worried that in ten years time China will be the freeworld and america a third world.?
.
Complain about this comment
62 seanspa.
60% ?
No they would be the British cars;)
60 Pub.
he blames them because the real cost that rose for the unions was the cost of healthcare for those it had promised when times were a little more fair.
Those costs spiralled and sot he "entitlements "spiralled.
he wants to distract people from that because t it is not on the message board from the leader.
Complain about this comment
publiusdetroit (#60) "Why do you continue to blame the unions for the failures of the U.S. automotive industry?"
I agree with your point. It's the products, and not merely workmanship, but design. Labor can affect workmanship, but has no influence whatever over design. In the 1970s and 1980s, Japanese automobiles were far better than American in every little detail. In that era, I used the "turn signal test" to compare design quality. Just operate the lever and feel the difference. That's when I switched to a Japanese vehicle, although even then it was an international vehichle, built on a GM platform used in Europe and Japan as well.
American automobile brands improved in quality, but kept their obsession with "muscle" cars and effects which were decorative without adding substantive value. Even today, there is hardly an American car I want to own. It's depressing.
As the Japanese automobile industry has taken over so much of the American market, they have become more like American automobiles as well. Every three years or so, the models get a little bigger and fancier. In the mid-1980s I thought the Honda Accord was a nice car (but didn't buy it). The Accord today is a different thing entirely and not something I want.
The Japanese seem also to have learned our common practice of trying to minimize responsibility for our errors, as evidenced by Toyota's mismanagement of their acceleration problem. Toyota seems to be the new GM.
Complain about this comment
We can all hope the snow keeps congress out of this. The Republicans will blame the President and the rest will be political theater. While they deal with nonsense,after the fact, the lobbyist will be in the cloak room discussing campaign contributions. With countries suffering the impact of the banking robbery of national and individual wealth, competition will be brutal. Expect the congress members from Michigan to make some statments about their concerns for public safety....although they never have before. As nothing has been done about the SEC and their failure to oversee financial institutions, crying will fill the halls for more oversight of "foreign" autos. Such hypocrits.
Complain about this comment
seanspa (#62) "So it's right to keep quiet on the 60% of the problems then. Would these 60% be 'american'?"
I don't think anything is being hushed up. The bigger a problem is, the more attention it gets.
You may remember that the first case of unintended acceleration which came to light was with Audi in the 1980s. Audi first tried to blame it on operator error, which is what all manufacturers do at first, because it costs them nothing.
People are much the same everywhere.
Complain about this comment
I should add that the original Audi problem may have in fact been due to operator error. In the 1980s, the engine controls were not as complex as they are now, and the NHTSA found no electrical or mechanical explanation for the problem.
http://www.automobile.com/audi-investigated-for-unintended-acceleration.html
Complain about this comment
Here's an interesting article on brake override technology for various manufacturers:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20100202/BIZ/2030323/Toyota-slow-to-add-brake-override-technology
Complain about this comment
Even if China, Russia, ect. rises, the USA will still be a top contendor. You are underestimating us. But that's okay. It's usually best when people do. :)
Complain about this comment
usa demands answers from toyota? toyota should remind usa to answer the questions regarding the mess it creates in the world..Toyota should call the faulty cars as collateral damage and tell usa to move on..So what if a a few thousand cars have fault..its not as if toyota has always proudcued faulity cars.
Complain about this comment
The non usa car industry should boycott america..let them use their legs that way michelle obama would not have to make people feed grass and herbs and shrubs in the name of healthy diet.
Complain about this comment
My last couple of visits to the US,New England in the autumn,my rental car was a Toyota.I was disappointed,as I wanted an American vehicle,you had a choice,take it or leave it,as I had pre paid I took it.What a boring plastic non discript piece of kit.My first visit to the US,California in the early 80s`was complete with an AMC concord,what a car! totally different to any thing I had driven back home.Why have buyers chosen bland over character & see the demise of original manufactures for ever.Do AMC still exist??,or have they gone the same way as our, Hillman,Wolsey,Austin,Morris,Standard,Rover,Triumph,BSA,Norton,Aerial,Velocette,Francis,Barnet,Atkinson,Seddon,Foden,Leyland,AEC,Bedford,Commer,
ThornyCroft,BMC commercial,Albion, to name some off the top of my head the list can go on & on,I think I will stop now as this is getting depressing,I would still appreciate an answer about AMC? thanks....
Complain about this comment
Ref 56, AndreaNY
"Toyota produces superior vehicles except for the ones that kill people. Until now, that's only been a problem for the ones killed. Now, it's Toyota's problem, too, and rightly so."
I am not excusing TOYOTA's handling of this problem. They, like most automakers in the past, tried to blame drivers for the problem to avoid responsibility and in the end they got what they deserved. There is no excuse for neglicence or lack of responsibility, and I hope the U.S. government makes that perfectly clear to them and every other company operating in the USA, foreign and domestic.
What surprises me, however, is the difference in the way we are handling this problem and the way we have handled major recalls by US automakers in the past.
Design flaws are not uncommon, and in some ways they are to be expected, but I think we - the consumer - should stay focus and consider the fact that, overall, TOYOTA has produced outstanding products for decades. In a way, this may be a blessing for TOYOTA. It proves they are not infallible and may force them to rethink some of their manufacturing practices, such as using common parts for different models.
Complain about this comment
ref #60
Why do you continue to blame the unions for the failures of the U.S. automotive industry? Labor unions do not run the business. Management runs the business. The management of General Motors and Chrysler failed to manage their business in a profitable manner. If they were paying too high a cost for union labor; then it was their lack of management and negotiating skills that placed them onto the path of their failure.
_______________
Lets say GM decided to open a new division to manufacturer the next generation of green viechles.
And a business decision was made to be non union, would you support that as the company's right. I can tell you the UAW would howl protest and the Democrats would put up road blocks.
Complain about this comment
ref #61
While I cannot fault you for your argument and indeed understand your sentiment I must say that hiring the Pinkertons, while EFFECTIVE, normally ended in a bloody mess. If you wish to avoid thuggary, don't go that route. Discrediting unions and labor organizers as socialist or subversive was quite a bit more effective on all fronts in America historically.
______________
I would answer that labor union orginizer commit great thugary. And James mcPharland should be honored for his heroism as far as the working man as much as Cesar Chavez.
Complain about this comment
Some faulty cars upset the americans that their senate folks are pressing for inquiries, while the destruction and killing they have caused is not even mentioned..china should export faulty toys to america, and japan faulty toyota, toys and cars, the two things most important to america.
Complain about this comment
ukwales (#74) "Do AMC still exist??"
No, thank heaven. An AMC Concord was one of the cars that failed the "turn signal test" when I rented one. The AMC Gremlin consistently turns up on every "worst cars ever" list, along with things like the Yugo and the "Thing." Why would they call it a Gremlin, anyway?
Complain about this comment
SaintDominick (#75) "It proves they are not infallible and may force them to rethink some of their manufacturing practices, such as using common parts for different models."
It'll never happen. Every major automobile manufacturer has been doing that for quite a long time. It would not be economic to make each type completely individual. They wouldn't be able to compete.
Complain about this comment
Mark, I would think the happiest car maker right now is Ford. No government bail outs like GM & Chrysler and now Toyota has taken a big PR hit.
Complain about this comment
Toyota is not getting any special treatment in regards to media coverage. Remeber Ford and the problems they had with their Firestone tires? The media spent a lot of time covering that topic.
Complain about this comment
Ref 76 MagicKirin-
"And a business decision was made to be non union, would you support that as the company's right."
It is not up to the management of the business to decide whether their labor force is union or non-union. It is up to the employees to make that decision by ballot.
Business managers can manage their business in such a way that their labor force does not see the need for them to become an organized labor unit. It is when the labor force has been abused by unsafe working conditions, unreasonable compensation for labor performed, lack of an effect means for settling grievances, unreasonable demands placed upon the labor force, and a host of other problems that labor units seek organization and protection from abuse by joining an established labor union, or creating their own.
If the management of a business documented that it would not allow organized labor and interfered with employees forming an organized labor unit to represent them, the management would be in violation of the National Labor Relations Act of 1935 (Warner Act) and be subject to litigation and fines.
Complain about this comment
Easytarget #48
In 1972 my father traded his 1966 Lincoln for a 1972 new Toyota Corona after the Lincoln suffered what seemed like an endless string of needed repairs, most of them relatively minor but nonetheless a nuissance. During the several years we owned that Toyota, there was not one thing I can think of on that car that could have needed repair or replacement of that didn't fail except for the engine itself. Every other component or system failed includng the transmission. In fact Aamco who replaced the transmission apologized when the replacement failed due to defective Toyota parts shipped to them. Toyota and Nissan did not start making reliable cars until the late 1980s. Their cars were simple but their performace was modest and they were small. There have been other horrible Japanese cars as well including Subaru, Suzuki which I think was prone to turning over by itself just like those old small Chevies in Nader's book "Unsafe at Any Speed." Mitsubishis also suffered a high rate of tramsmission failure and replacements were $2000+ when that was a lot of money for a tramsmission. With few exceptions European cars were even worse and most European cars as sold in Europe are not street legal in the US. British cars were the reputed to be the worst engineered cars made in the Western world. The carburator of the MG was described by mechanics as "a controlled drip." Jaguars had the reputation of needing to be retuned every time they went around the block until Ford took them over and built them on other engine platforms. I think some of them were Lincoln platforms. Repair costs on European cars in America when they do fail are astronomical. Even Mercedes has become an unreliable car that is very expensive to maintain. Detailed reliability and repair data for all makes and mondels sold in the US as well as detailed and objective performance reports can be found in Consumers Reports, the magazine of Consumers Union.
IMO my boss's Lexus 350 is no more comfortable than the Buick Lucerne we rented in Toronto and drove back to New Jersey in a couple of years ago and its performace can't hold a candle to my Lincoln Mark VIII LSC.
Complain about this comment
ref #83
publiusdetroit wrote:
Ref 76 MagicKirin-
"And a business decision was made to be non union, would you support that as the company's right."
It is not up to the management of the business to decide whether their labor force is union or non-union. It is up to the employees to make that decision by ballot.
____________
No if a company states in it business model, we will be non union it should be respected. If someone decides to work there he or she should understand that is the company make up.
Complain about this comment
Ref 85 MagicKirin-
"No if a company states in it business model, we will be non union it should be respected."
Are you saying that a business should be able to pick and choose which laws it will abide by, and which laws it will not?
The National Labor Relations Act (NLRA) is the law of the land. A business foolish enough to publish that (in its business plan, or any other document) that the business will not abide by the laws of the land is in trouble from the onset. That, in itself, gives notice that the management is inept.
The NLRA supports the First Amendment to the Constitution allowing citizens the right to organize.
Complain about this comment
50. LucyIllinois wrote:
"I am in agreeance, RomeStu. There are far too many companies nowadays all around the world who only care about cheapness and money."
Lucy, I think you missed my point.
I am not (entirely) blaming the companies who produce cheap products, but actually the "Now now now" society that wants it cheap - and then doesn't make the connect between something "cheap" and something "cr-p".
We are our own worst enemies, and this desire for instant gratification is also a strong reason for the amount of credit card debt that people have. No one wants to wait til they cn afford the "real thing" so a cheap version is made to satisfy demand....
Complain about this comment
ref #86
Not if the playing field is going to allow card check (which allows unions to strong arm workers, PLA which restricts the playing field.
That is why it was courageous of the Senators who voted against the SEIU lawyer for the NLRB.
Complain about this comment
Marcus, we've been through this all before. You were wrong then and are still wrong now.
"most European cars as sold in Europe are not street legal in the US."
Not true.
"Jaguars had the reputation of needing to be retuned every time they went around the block until Ford took them over and built them on other engine platforms. I think some of them were Lincoln platforms"
Reliability at Jaguar had improved long-before Ford took over. Spearheaded, I beleive, by their XJ series, which does not share a platform with Ford.
Still driving the barge then?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I used to jump from one American made car to another always with hope that my problems will be over with the new purchase. I was naive. In 2004 I finally bought Toyota Camry and I will never, in all probability, buy another make. This car never failed me, runs trouble free for the last five years. The current comment about Toyota unreliability I treat with a smile. I experience for too long "reliability" of the local product. I wish a independent survey among auto mechanics was conducted on their thoughts regarding, for example, Ford products versus Toyota. So far I know of the opinions of three auto experts on the subject. None recommends Ford and all praise Toyotas and Hondas.
Complain about this comment
I thought #90 was too funny for anyone British to appreciate. No it is not a dry sense of humor the Brits have, it is shriveled up and disintegrated entirely. Must be something the growers have put in the tea. Or maybe its those little concrete balls they eat. What do they call them, scones? Or is it stones?
Complain about this comment
Pass Torian. It would be interesting to know what the mechanics think of American prduced Hondas, or British Nissan, Toyota or Honda cars. In other words, is it the design/manufacturing procedure or the workers themselves themselves that reduce reliabiltiy?
I know in the dark days of the 1960s/1970s (where MarcusII still resides), the woes of the British motor industry were generally blamed on poor management practice and union relations, not to mention a lack of quality control. Most people seem to be very happy with their Swindon-produced Hoinda Civics or Sunderland born Nissan Micras.
#92 Marcus, if post #90 was indeed "too funny" this would certainly represent a massive change in the quality of your output. More likely it was vaguely offensive or untrue (not that these factors stop the remainder of your postings getting through).
Complain about this comment
"Anti-Toyota conspiracy"? :)
HONDA has just started a massive recall pertaining to its faulty, potentially deadly airbags.
The latest announcement also covers Japan, Mexico, Taiwan and Australia.
Another U.S. government conspiracy, I guess, in order to protect Mexican, Taiwanese and Australian car indstry? :-)))
[Now, about those leaking windows shortcuiting electric switches...]
Complain about this comment
Re #66 GH1618 observes:
"The Japanese seem also to have learned our common practice of trying to minimize responsibility for our errors, as evidenced by Toyota's mismanagement of their acceleration problem. Toyota seems to be the new GM."
The point I made earlier. [in #19]
However, don't worry. Mr. Toyoda is coming to Washington to assure us that his company can be turned around like a speedboat,
not like a car-rier it became.
He just waits for our airports to reopen.
And hopefully he doesn't fly JAL. ;)
Complain about this comment
Re #91
Haven't you heard the latest? CAMRY recall! :-)
Complain about this comment
The difference between Toyota and , say , GM has been that Toyota have simply been unable to comprehend that their cars could be less than perfect. In the case of GM or Chrysler, everybody, including the dealers and manufacturers, knows that the cars are less than perfect.
Complain about this comment
So toyota have some Obvious issues.
lets look at the wonder trucks of the USA.
the dodge ram (unless you are a ford Man)
here we have a car that still uses a red break light and a red indicator light (americans call blinkers because they use them as they turn;)
Now some are gong to say "shut up you anti american" but stuff them.
two different colours were used by the rest of the world.
and I can safely say that having a break light that is red flash and a indicator that is red flash is about the same thing.
Hard to tell part especially if the idiot with the red flashing light is planning to turn into your lane and all you can see is the one side break light.
Are they turning or breaking.
Well I stay back anyway so no matter.
but just back to the point.
given the lack of real signalling ability that these antiquated world ignoring american break lights posses I would suggest that adding THIS
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/Vtech/Tail_Light_Cover/V161327703.html?tlc=Headlights+%26+Lighting
Is not the most helpful thing one could do. BUT there are a hell of a lot of trucks with these "cool" light covers(light covers?????????)
yet not one question has been asked by anyone as to ARE THESE LIGHT COVERS KILLING PEOPLE.
I suggest that any thing that diminishes the ability of others to see the turn signal or the break lights is a hazard on the road.
I would add I wish to see a recall of all vehicles with these light covers on.
I would also like to see California's code enforced that says all jacked up trucks must have a bumper (fender) at the same hight as standard cars. so big monster trucks do not decapitate people in collisions ... as much.
While everyone is focusing on stupid cars and trucks.
Complain about this comment
It's not true that any cars have been actually7 BANNED in U.S.
It's true, however, that many brands have tried and failed here:
Alfa Romeo, Citroen, Fiat, Maseratti, Peugeot, Renault, Saab, Yugo...
Complain about this comment
"97. At 08:25am on 11 Feb 2010, Wonthillian wrote:
The difference between Toyota and , say , GM has been that Toyota have simply been unable to comprehend that their cars could be less than perfect. In the case of GM or Chrysler, everybody, including the dealers and manufacturers, knows that the cars are less than perfect."
LOL so Brits are like GM and america is like toyota.
funny that.
PS america thought 20 miles a gallon good. until very very recently.
I think if you read this blog two years ago there would have been a lively debate between MA and many others where he kept telling us there was no way the american motor industry would fail because they were the best.
Back to that fiat argument.
PCiii
LOL
to quote an old show
"who is that masked man"
apparently MA is going to enter the Americas cup to win back the glory.
No one told him it was a sail boat race.
Complain about this comment
This whole sorry mess goes a long way towards destroying the long-held myth that Japanese cars are far superior to American cars, a myth which led eventually to the economic woes of domestic manufacturers. Over my 52 years in the U.S. I have bought only American cars, some new, but most of them used, and can truthfully say that without exception they performed admirably.
Complain about this comment
Some of the backlash against Toyota is actually and also directed against Toyota/Lexus owners - many of whom are arrogant and self-righteous in their preaching to owners of other marques about "superior" and "most reliable" Toyota products.
As a car enthusiast myself, I drive cars that let me enjoy driving. I have two German cars, neither of which are reliable as Toyota/Lexus products. But they are built for people who love driving, rather than for most Toyota owners for whom driving is a task to be done rather than savoured.
Yes Toyotas are reliable and have longetivity, but that's it. If that's what you attach your priorities to, then good for you. Just don't lecture the rest of us who choose other makes based on different criteria.
Complain about this comment
Re #102...pleasure of driving
Lincoln TownCar is definitely more comfortable than Corvette.
Bu I still miss Corvette. And I may go back. Yet.
Complain about this comment
I don't have the direct knowledge myself but found this comment from someone who works in the industry quite interesting.
"Can I just make a comment about Toyota's recall. Its generally accepted in the industry that Toyotas are the highest quality vehicles you can buy (with the possible exception of Lexus). Having worked with Toyota on a number of projects its obvious they take a holistic view of Design/Quality and Engineering. In other words they are a tough customer but aren't adverse to spending money solving problems properly in conjunction with suppliers.
When it comes to warranty retruns and recalls they use a different formula, based on customer satisfaction and safety to other auto makers, who just use the cynical formula:
If cost of lawsuits > recall, then recall.
Irrespective of deaths. Its also well known that other automakers especially those in the Americas will do pretty much anything to avoid a recall, including pay-offs and other less dubious means.
So knowing that my view is that Toyota have acted ethically in this recall, look at how the american automaker whose European arm begins with a V squirmed their way out of a recall on one of their small vehicles a few years ago.
If you want real evidence sit in a Toyota and try to push and pull some of the plastic trim off, you won't find squeaks, rattles, Tizzes, and the piece will stay locked on. Do that in an American car and you could probably remove enough parts to recycle and make a few quid. In fact my car, a Ford, has an intermitant accelerator problem that is widely known for my model of car which causes it to stall and kangaroo on acceleration. Its a widely known fault on the forums and is equally dangerous than a sticky brake, yet there was no recall for it.
And now the US DMV is stating further problems with Toyota cars (with no statistical data), right at the time when American auto sales are struggling.
What I am saying is that it is counter intuitive to think that Toyota has poor quality because of the recalls (which are actually design issues as well). What you should be thinking is that Toyota are better quality because they highlighted a recall that other makers would have swept under the carpet.
In my experience Toyota and the Japanese auto makers make Quality part of the design and manufacture of their cars where as other makers see it as a unnecessary cost."
Complain about this comment
WHOSAIDJAZZ
well written post there.
I think most here in the states are jumping at any chance to knock the top rung off.
at their own risk. because if the Toyotas spent some money in the right direction they probably could show that they were still better than the opposition.
like it was asked earlier who has the 60% problems if toyota has 40% of the problem.
remember the exploding gas tanks?
Complain about this comment
what a nobel floridian how well behaved of you.
Complain about this comment
Pity the betrayed consumer, somehow this is a conspiracy by GM and Ford,to bring down Toyota, who had they performed due dilligence, since
the first reports of faulty issues would have avoided all this. One of the rules of business "get help to solve complex issues, that you yourselves can't solve".
Complain about this comment
Toyota is to recall 8,000 Tacoma pick-up trucks in the US, over fears about defective front drive shafts.
The recall involves four-wheel drive Tacomas built from mid-December 2009 to early February 2010.
Complain about this comment
I listened to the interview tonight with (sp?) Collin Brown about the extent to which electronics are integrated with the oh so critical braking system these days. I've been out of the mainstream of the auto restoration hobby for some decades now, but after hearing this I'm sure glad to still maintain and regularly run by pre-80's cars with pure pneumatic brakes. I would be interested to hear some commentary from experts on the default braking conditons in the case of an electrical failure. Come on, ASK those difficult questions! How many additional deaths (compared to 20 years ago) would result, due to the new electrical braking systems, say, in the case of an electronics-zapping EMP from a distant atmospheric nuclear blast (hey, it's becoming more of a news issue every day, SOMEONE has to think of these issues :-).
Mike
Complain about this comment
Mark Mardell wrote:
"But I wouldn't be surprised if American carmakers in Detroit were feeling just a tinge of schadenfreude."
No, that kind of thinking, along with your cynicism, would be much more likely from your part of the world where so many of you relish other people's misery because so many of you are miserable yourselves.
Complain about this comment
lol I like the wit
"How many additional deaths (compared to 20 years ago) would result, due to the new electrical braking systems, say, in the case of an electronics-zapping EMP from a distant atmospheric nuclear blast"
that happened to me last week on the A 305
Complain about this comment
Everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room: Why did Toyota deliberately omit to test the effects of EMPs and distant nuclear blasts on their complete range, from pick-up trucks to small family cars?
Complain about this comment
Volkswagen (VW) is recalling nearly 200,000 cars in Brazil because of a rear wheel problem.
Now does that make Toytoa aficionados feel any better?
Complain about this comment
This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain
There are alot of posts on here that are terribly uninformed and based on speculation, rumor and the worst of all, American news networks.
The Prius issue is seperate from all the other models in the Toyota lineup, it is a ECU problem that is fixed with reprogramming.
The issue that effects the rest of the Toyota range is one of the distance between the accelerator pedal and the floor being too narrow. In a vehicle with no floormats in place this is not an issue at all. The issue arrises when non factory, non secured floormats are fitted or multiple floormats are layed on top of one another.
Where the part is made has nothing to do with it and the cars are perfectly safe if the correct mats are fitted properly. The public seems to be forgeting that toyota was not forced to recall these vehicles and did so on their own consience.
i personally am not a Toyota fan and would never buy one because quality is not as important to me as price and enjoyment. I say this just to illustrate that i am not a Toyota employee or a diee hard Toyota fan. I amsimply someone who has taken the time to understand the issue and i would urge everone to do the same before posting.
Complain about this comment
Embattled Japanese carmaker Toyota is considering a recall for the Corolla, the world's best-selling car.
It said no decision had been made as it was still looking into complaints over the Corolla's power-steering.
Toyota also denied any cover-up as the US investigates whether it was quick enough in recalling its cars over problems affecting other models.
The US car safety watchdog has ordered Toyota to hand over documents relating to its recent recalls.
Toyota said it would "co-operate to provide all the information they have requested" on the US inquiry.
[...]
In a wide-ranging press conference in Tokyo,Toyota president Akio Toyoda said that he would not be attending a US Congressional hearing into the recalls set for 24 February. [BBC]
Figures.
Complain about this comment
Informed (#115) "The issue that effects the rest of the Toyota range is one of the distance between the accelerator pedal and the floor being too narrow."
This comment takes the company explanation at face value, and tends to minimize the problem.
This is how I look at it:
When there is a call for acceleration and braking simultaneously, this is a fault condition however it happens. The questions I have are:
1. Under this fault condition, can the brakes stop the vehicle?
2. If not, why not, and how should it be fixed?
Preventing the accelerator pedal from jamming does not address these questions.
Some auto makers use brake override technology whenever the engine has sufficient power that stopping the vehicle would be difficult under these conditions. Toyota has announced that they will be adding brake override technology to future models. It's pretty clear to me that tinkering with the accelerator pedal to make it less likely to jam does not get at the heart of the problem, but it's a cheap fix.
Complain about this comment
In the light of increasing conflict, is anyone worried that even the basic models in the Toyota range don't include armour-plating, missile launchers and bullet-proof glass?
Complain about this comment
As an American for the detroit area, the reveal that toyota is not the standard of quality is a giant sigh of FINALLY. In regard to the pontiac fiero, it is a wonderful car to drive and if in good shape is an amazing car, the manual steering just needs to be taken in to account. The American automakers have come a long way from the 70s and 80s and I am proud to drive my pontiac G5 and feel safe and technologically advanced in it. I wish that GM had NOT retired the Pontiac brand because it was a great car for a reduced price for the consumer. Toyota is technologically stuck in the 90s and hopefully this series of recalls will encurage the american consumer to look into GM and Ford. No, I do NOT work for the big three, I just support them.
Complain about this comment
Leading Democrats on the House Energy and Commerce Committee
said Monday that Toyota had dismissed the notion that
computer issues could be at fault for sticking accelerator
pedals on millions of cars, relied on a flawed study to draw
that conclusion and then made misleading statements on the
repairs it said would fix the problem.
The comments, from Representatives Henry J. Waxman, the
committee's chairman, and Bart Stupak, a subcommittee
chairman, came in an 11-page letter to James E. Lentz III,
the president of Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. The letter was
released on the eve of the committee's hearing into the
Toyota recalls, one of three hearings scheduled to examine
the situation.
Complain about this comment
As manufactures it is their duty to make sure that their car products are properly working. So sad that after Toyota recall, here comes GM recall. I guess it is true that car manufacturers basically ride each other’s coat tails. The GM recall is over potentially faulty power steering systems and it affects various models such as the Chevy Cobalt (05 through 2010 models), the Pontiac G4 (05 and 06, though in Mexico only), Pontiac G5 (07 – 2010) and the Pontiac Pursuit (05 and 06, only in Canada). Hopefully they won't need any payday loans from the government again.
Complain about this comment
Toyota is one of the leading car company. All the models are very good & comfortable. But American people has some complains about this & so they need an answer to this. walking pneumonia
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS