From breaking news to broken news
Clinton's cardiologist stood outside the hospital, looking cold and none too well, answering a barrage of questions ranging from those seeking a sensational headline - "was this a wake-up call?" ("no"), "did this make a heart attack more likely?" ("less likely"), to the bizarre "What brand of stent was used?". Someone even had the temerity to ask an old-fashioned reporterly question - "How long did the procedure take? "
When it was all over I reflected that when I started in journalism the doctor's statement would probably have been the first we would have heard about the event. "Elder statesman undergoes minor procedure: resumes work on Monday". It might have earned a couple of paragraphs or a glancing reference on the evening news.
But of course nothing else was covered all evening on the American 24 hour news networks. For us in the BBC Washington office it was pretty dramatic. We'd heard a major network was going to break into programming with a news flash.
I sat in my office, speculating wildly, and I must admit terrorist attack was at the front of my mind. But thankfully I was wrong.
ABC News went on air to say Bill Clinton had been taken to hospital and had undergone surgery. Let's be blunt about this. At the back, possibly the front, of every journalist's mind was the possibility he might die. However regrettable, there's no getting away from the fact that the death of a major figure is a huge news story.
Forgive me for being so crude, but it is true. ABC had been the first to announce the death of Ronald Reagan. Had Clinton broken his leg it would have been a story, but it would not have triggered this sort of high octane coverage that had ABC's competitors going on air at once with speculation. No one wants to be the last to tell their viewers the sad news. Multiple Twitters from political junkies spread the news virus like a giant sneeze within minutes of ABC's news flash.
But within a quarter of an hour there were hints that it wasn't going to be that sort of story. Within an hour the ex-president's staff had issued a statement making it clear that he was in good spirits and good shape. It had gone very quickly from breaking news to broken news. I happen to think we at the BBC judged this just right, giving it the right prominence and not going over the top.
But I am not suggesting any of the other networks got it wrong or were overexcited. The drama of a former president being rushed to hospital is a bigger story anyway for US stations than it is for a world or UK audience.
But there is a sort of relentless logic to 24 hour news. Once a potentially huge story has been identified, news stations have to follow the narrative they have started to tell, ignoring any other story, questing to find something, anything to talk about while they try to answer the bigger question they have raised in viewers' minds.
It is not in human nature, to say, "stand down, it was not what we we're worried about, go back to sleep". In this case the networks did something of a body swerve and changed the coverage into a lesson about healthy hearts and lifestyle rather than a look back at a career.
Do you relish this wall-to-wall coverage - indeed is there any way for a news organisation to avoid it and not be dangerously behind the curve?
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~46~RS~)
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I think part of the reason stories like this get coverage is the fact that we live in a celebrity driven age, where the death of a pop star like Micheal Jackson can get days of live coverage. Believe it or not, President Clinton is a celebrity of the first order and whenever he does something that impacts the world its going to be news. Whenever he's sick, it becomes news. That is probably the result of the age that we live in. Having said that I wish the President a speedy recovery and hope he is back to his old self soon.
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I would say that a greater danger is being too eager to be ahead of the curve. Occasionally a news agency, in its zeal to be first, gets the facts wrong, then has to correct. Broadcasters and newspapers should just go about things in their own way. Different media have different styles, and consumers choose which style they prefer. I don't want my news sources trying to compete with the tabloids.
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Relax Mr. Mardell, if Tony Blair needed a stent 99% of America wouldn't even know who he is or care. And that would have been true even when he was the Prime Minister of Great Britain.
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The news media needs sensationalism to survive, and considering the stature of former President Clinton not only in the USA but on the world stage the hype we are seeing is not surprising.
The behavior of former Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter since they left office, and particularly their humanitarian endeavors and efforts to solve international problems peacefully, should be used as a model for other Presidents to follow. The irony is that it is two of the most maligned Presidents in modern history that are setting an example for those whose main interest after leaving Washington is playing golf, parachuting from planes or hiding behind the comfort zone of their reclusive lives.
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Mark:
"Do you relish this wall-to-wall coverage - indeed is there any way for a news organisation to avoid it and not be dangerously behind the curve?"
No, I don't think this use of technology has improved the accuracy of the news for the most part. It's done wonders for the voyeurs among us, though.
BBC America doesn't do the 24/7 thing, and they don't seem dangerously behind the curve. For that matter PBS doesn't either. Those two organizations are the source for most of my information.
If the breaking news is of an ongoing situation (like say a terrorist attack in progress), I go to CNN, FOX, MSNBC or my local channels. They usually have cameras on the scene. The reporting (commentary, really, since there is no investigation done at that point) is uninformed as a rule, but it's mildly entertaining. It doesn't have a great deal of value.
It takes courage to buck a trend like this. I have confidence that you can hold the line.
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As long as the public is superficial the news will be rubbish. Forever, in other words.
Next question?
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When Bill Clinton was President, our country had a surplus and there was no recession. I have fond memories of that time. Of course, it was also my childhood. My family was lucky enough to get to visit the White House when President Clinton was in office and it was spectacular. All in all, there are just good feelings toward the Clintons from my family. If Chelsea ever ran for office, we would absolutely support her.
I am extremely happy that Bill Clinton is okay. It is big news. Truthfully, I don't know that there is anyone more famous or bigger than life than Bill Clinton in the USA. He is one of the best speech makers and smartest people out there. If anyone can do it, it's Bill.
There is a fine line between fact or fiction being reported in the media. You want to hear the news first, but you also don't want them to lie to you, either.
The way the breaking news cuts in, it does make you feel a bit apprehensive. What could it be? But it does make you feel good when it is something good, such as the Miracle on the Hudson. There is a 50/50 chance.
Thank God Bill was in the good ole' USA, so that he got proper and adequate medical care. I will praying for all the Clintons.
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ref #8
Gherkin your post is as usual off topic and offensive.
has nothing to do with the thread. except to mention as usual someone is a better person than jiimy who BTW was helping others non jewish people after the earthquake as well. (I mention jewish because gherkin thinks all should not critisise israel and should always be working for them even is they are american presidents.
IE the only reason for this post by gherkin at 2 is to say carter did not support israel.
Off topic. mods do your jobs.
get real or this thread will die the same death.
_________________
No yur enthic slur is offensive. No surprise that you have to keep chaging your id. I wonder what you would African americans that you disagree with.
It is called Hate sppech!
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I didn't watch the news last night but know what to expect - Wolf Blitzer, et al, going on and on and on, repeating the same thing ad naseum while the news ticker at the bottom of the screen reiterates what their panel of experts just opined. US Network news (esp. CNN) is a superficial joke and one would do well to ignore it. Try PBS (Jim Lehrer's NewsHour) if you actually want to learn something.
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The problem with the way '24 hour news' (more properly called 'rolling news', actually) especially on
TV is that for most of the time it's the same news just repeated every fifteen minutes for most of the 24 hours. It doesn't often 'roll' very far at all. And, what makes it even more irritating is that whatever 24 hour news channel you choose, most of the time both the news items, and their running order, are exactly the same.
(The former I can understand the reasons for; the latter I never have. Unless news editors are all clones.)
The reason why not much of the news actually changes over 24 hours is simple: people as a rule want pictures. And getting pictures from a news event is slow. You get a van with a reporter and a cameraman there; you extend the satellite mast; you test reception; then you do the report. So let's imagine a scenario: reporter hears of something really newsworthy happening.
By the time they get there and everything's ready, the studio calls and asks, "Well, Judy, what's happening now?" And, as a friend of mine in Reuters glumly said to me once, having been doing some training for this sort of thing, "Half the time the real answer is 'Well, John, bugger all actually' because either by the time they got there everything's already over, and there's nothing to see, or if what was happening--like a riot or demo, maybe--has long moved away somewhere else and the van, reporter and camera couldn't follow because they've been stuck there waiting for their time slot in the 'live news'.
So the poor reporter is lumbered with grabbing passers-by and asking 'What did you see' -- instead of 'What the hell happened?' which is usually what it means-- and calls it an 'eyewitness report'. That's assuming most responses aren't "Dunno, haven't a clue, mate." And then of course, you'll always get someone like our very own Vampire who claims to know everything about what happened, and only later turns out to have been locked in a loo with no windows and saw nothing. . .
The moral of the story is both that pictures aren't everything; no news organisation that has to rely on them will ever be able to afford enough staff to really do 24 hour comprehensive news anyway--especially in the US, where the network 'teams' of reporters are really barely enough to cover a town of 100.000 let alone a country!-- and the two or three easy solutions that are getting to be commonly used to fill the time are no real help.
One is to pick 'news' (like Clinton's minor operation) that doesn't actually move. Another is to pretend a press release from some organisation or other is 'news'--same reason, and you can always get a pundit or three to talk about it--and the third is to use ordinary people and their mobile phones or videocams as 'reporters'. Few can be. Most can (or will) only tell a 'story'. And do, often when they phone newsdesks with a tip, and so, for a little while you get a breathless anticipation that an ex-President might be at death's door. And once you've got pulses racing and everybody well hyped up, you've got to make something bigger out of it than it really us, or you'll look a right fool. And news editors hate that.
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8. At 6:21pm on 12 Feb 2010, easytarget wrote:
"But I am not suggesting any of the other networks got it wrong or were overexcited"
ah but you know you wished you could;)
Shush! Of course he doesn't :-D
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It is confusing when the media will sometimes give "suggestions." It either is or it isn't.
The other thing that drives me crazy about the media is when they short you on a story, not giving all the facts and sometimes leaving certain facts out.
They say that newspapers are not as popular now, since Internet is all the rage. My family still gets the newspapers, just like we always did. Local news is best read in a newspaper. But whether from a newspaper or an Internet article, you usually can get all the facts from reading articles. You can also look up other sources of the same story on the Internet. There is something about reading that makes it special.
When you hear a story on the news, sometimes you can't help but think, "Is that the full story?" The media has the tendency to want to build up the story and make it as exciting or interesting as possible, so they don't always give you all the full facts. Also, they may try to cut the story down for time purposes, either for more stories or for commericals, as they are on a timer.
Personally, I think they should cut out all the commericals on the news, or at least cut them down to two minutes or less. News is the one time that you should hear the news.
That is why I also love PBS so much. Because they don't have any commercials during the news or other shows. It is truly awesome and excellent. Maybe not as exciting as the main news channels, but at least it goes in-depth. PBS has fantastic shows about animals, science, everything. They also run great kids shows.
Ironically, PBS is also the station that will air BBC, France, Euro, Russia, Indian, Asian news, ect. I don't know that I always believe everything these foreign channels say, but I do enjoy hearing other viewpoints. PBS having BBC is why I first came to BBC's website.
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Mark:
At least, the media did the responsible thing and, reported the Bill Clinton health scare on Thursday...
And, I don't think that the media...Covered the story in a accurate fashion.
(Dennis Junior)
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I wish the media would stop saying how Canada can't live up to the Beijing Olympics. The Beijing Olympics were amazing and they put on an incredible show. But now it is Canada's turn.
Who wants to see the same show twice? That is what the Olympics is all about: diversity. Every Olympics is different. It is neat to see each country do its thing.
The Canadians are some of the coolest people in the world. Our media should treat them better and give them the respect they deserve, as they are truly great neighbors. I wish the best of luck to our neighbors to the North.
If we were all the same, it would be boring.
Go Winter Olympics 2010! Let's rock it out tonight!!! :)
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Allow me, the weeks before the afghanistan war started, hotels in one. espeically one, which i will not name, in one of the city in pakistan got full of journalists from all over the world, especially the hyper world, every hour or so, they would give some sort of update and everyone was all excited ready to go inside the afghanistan to do the coverage of fall of taliban and the war..the day after the war, they just vanished, back to where they came from..or to far of places from where they broad casted their "sensational day to day update about the war" the only journalists remain in that city were some asians and the pakistanis..The american audiances were given the war updates in newconferances, wher the journalists, asked the similar question about the kind of weapon, bomb that had been used to hit the target, the speed with which it hit the target, the speed with which the plane should fly etc etc etc.
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Ref. 17, colonelartist:
You're Pakistani? I thought you were British.
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I understand the reason for wall to wall coverage on a terrorist attack or some other devastating news like the Challenger disaster, Katrina and Haiti, or even momentous news like the first moon landing and the fall of the Berlin Wall. (Although, to be honest, I do enjoy the wall to wall coverage of royal weddings, news worthy though they aren't in the US. The occasional indulgent nod to great pageantry seems fair enough now and again, and I'm not the sort of person to be mean-spirited and deny a reporter the fun of covering something light and fluffy in between horror stories.) But these days, it seems like the media is just desperate to fill air time between repetitive sound bites and political talking points - rather than make an attempt at asking deeper "reporterly" questions and maybe making some news out of the answers, or lack thereof. In days gone by when such a story turned into a non-story, they would have gone back to their regular schedule and run occasional updates along the bottom of the screen. And no one would have ever suggested they were "behind the curve".
There would be no need for such sham news if all the networks actually covered all the news, or even made it, heaven forbid, by getting an investigative scoop on the other guys. (Congrats to the Telegraph for shaking up the British government with something other than a tawdry sex scandal. Our newspapers and media outlets should take a lesson.) There's more news than what's going on in Washington and New York, which is equally important to the nation. But they assume that people in the 50 states only want to hear what's going on in either their world, by watching local news, or in those two cities, which they consider the sum total (most days) of national news.
Frankly, I believe these news organizations are violating the requirement to report the news as a public service - even if it loses them money. That was the directive given to the networks in exchange for giving them access to the air waves - which they do not own, but merely borrow from the American people. Spending hours covering the same story, or handful of stories repetitively, is just proof positive that cutting news divisions to the bone for the sake of saving a few pennies was a bad idea.
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Am I missing something here? Did something happen to Mr. Clinton?
Seriously, I actually, didn't know a thing about it until quite late in the day, via my son casually mentioning it. I didn't even check back on it(TV) once I knew. I'm just not a news junkie/surfer.
Haven't heard a word this morning from co-workers, small article page 5 local paper.
Why torment oneself by continually watching this crap news/weather saturation?
Sure,stay informed - PBS, et al, newspaper(s), but do yourself a favour, when something like "this" happens, coverage will be sickening & constant - simply don't watch it! Start switching off
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The media has become this competition for viewers or readers and if things are worded in a way that misrepresents the acutal facts....well, that has beome OK. The headlines and leads to articles are "hooks" to get people in like the old carnival barkers. As we have seen with governments, words have no meaning and the media has decided to follow that path as well. So and So didn't deny something...therefore the media presents it as a confession rather than a denial. This is like the banks selling that the problem was a "technical error" that caused the financial crisis rather than a calculated process founded on greed and short term riches. There is news and there is invented news. I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said that newpapers should have four columns: one for the Truth, one for Probably True, one for Possibly True and lastly, Lies. There is a lack of integrity everywhere so why not in the media as well.
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The hand fits the glove and the glove fits the hand...What else do you think the media should be so detailed about? Ask obama, who the "we" in his regime of sanctions are? they know that even he doesnt know this as yet..when he has collected those "we" behind secret wheeling dealing, they will ask some usual questions..They cannot ask him about the efficiency of drones, because they have voluntarily put sanctions on themselves..What else is there to focus on? A common heart operation of an old man..Lots of old men and women have the same operations..the doctor got a fifteen minutes of fame, the news media got something to write about, the public got something to hear about. Dramatizing everything has become the way of life of americans..
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You're Pakistani? I thought you were British.
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Was it my queen's english that made you think I was brit-ish?
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Ref 10. Gavrielle
"But these days, it seems like the media is just desperate to fill air time between repetitive sound bites and political talking points - rather than make an attempt at asking deeper "reporterly" questions and maybe making some news out of the answers, or lack thereof."
Reporting trivialities and using anything, no matter how irrelevant or inconsequential, has been the norm for decades. Don't forget the OJ trial, the Michael Jackson saga, and the constant dissecting of every statement made by our public figures. In comparison, covering former President Clinton's medical problem seems well justified and appropiate.
Unfortunately until we - the public - develop a greater sense of interest in other subjects our "news" media, which is nothing more than a form of entertainment, has no choice but to continue doing what they are doing to survive. If they suddenly changed the tenor of their broadcasts and embraced topics such as discussing the latest book or a piece of classical music, if the focus was strictly on policy and economic matters, or if the subject involved an analysis into the lives of ordinary people, their struggles and ambitions I am afraid they would either go out of business or become an antidote for insomnia.
We love trivia, superficiality, and hype and the media is simply feeding us what we expect and want.
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I would argue that Bill Clinton going into the hospial is more worthy of discussion that a 2nd Michelle Obama obesity thread.
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Obama's wife crusade against food, toyota cars, bill clinton's operation. The most important issues in the country at war and conflicts..
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#22 colonel
Dramatizing everything has become the way of life of americans......
And, exaggerating/stereotyping
"dramatizing.....become the way of life of americans"
must be a way of life for you and everyone else from wherever it is you are from(?) I'll have to make that blanket assumption, just as you have.
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24. At 8:26pm on 12 Feb 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
Reporting trivialities and using anything, no matter how irrelevant or inconsequential, has been the norm for decades. Don't forget the OJ trial, the Michael Jackson saga, and the constant dissecting of every statement made by our public figures. In comparison, covering former President Clinton's medical problem seems well justified and appropiate.
Sorry, I was thinking of the glory days of Uncle Walter and Huntley and Brinkley. You know, when news was news and the networks actually did in depth stories that did not include a "Person of the Week". Perhaps I should have been more specific. As in prior to the takeover of the network news divisions by the networks' entertainment divisions. That's when news stopped being news. When it started having to make money - not because people insisted it be trivialized, because no one did.
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I think BBC is sore because unlike the UK where they are a big fish in a little pond and even in the rest of the English speaking world, in the US BBC is nobody. Nobody even knows who they are more or less cares what they have to say. BBC never gets the "scoop" in the US, it's always someone else. Hell, during the presidential campaign the candidates wouldn't even talk to BBC or the foreign press and that includes Barack Obama. In America, BBC is nothing more than a footnote.
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And, exaggerating/stereotyping
"dramatizing.....become the way of life of americans"
must be a way of life for you and everyone else from wherever it is you are from(?) I'll have to make that blanket assumption, just as you have.
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What i meant was over-dramatization is the way of life of americans. My way of life and everyone else from where it is I am from is under-dramatization..We live in the world of reality, where even drone attacks are under-dramatised. We dont even tell you the that obama's contractor templer's crussader, who roam in afghanistan pakistan changing their name from black water to the Xe, X as in christos or christian cross, because we dont want you to stop dramatizing the news like michelle's food drive or clinton's heart operation and we want you to continue to believe in the lies of your politicians that the the places the "just" war is being conducted, the christian symbols are too obvious.
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The new name of obama's private templars in afghanistan and pakistan is Xe, X the cross, E Evangelion or glad tiding or gospel, ergo Xe. Now you can among yourselves praise the "just" obama and athiests can among themselves praise their soldiers for either protecting them from some threat via occupation of afghanistan and hidden war in afghanistan, the muslims, especially in those areas know exactly what they are up against..
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I think BBC is sore because unlike the UK where they are a big fish in a little pond and even in the rest of the English speaking world, in the US BBC is nobody. Nobody even knows who they are more or less cares what they have to say.
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Its not about americans not knowing BBC, its about americans general ignorance...Comparing BBC, to private media is like comparing oranges to apples, BBC is not dependent on the ratings of its audiance, so its not going to give sensational gossips in the name of news.
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3. At 5:31pm on 12 Feb 2010, MagicKirin wrote:
"The news on Clinton has not been overdone.
Memo to jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton has acted as a former President should, Helping on humantarian efforts and being a good will amabassador.
Not being a self indulgent jerk!"
Right. Bill Clinton was a self indulgent jerk while he was in office, now he's reformed.
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32. At 10:18pm on 12 Feb 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"BBC is not dependent on the ratings of its audiance, so its not going to give sensational gossips in the name of news."
Actually a lot of what passes for news on the BBC site seems like gossip on this side of the pond. Case in point from today's news on the BBC: Prince Andrew clipping a cop as he drove into the palace is hard news and not sensational gossip? Admit it, it only rates a mention because he's a royal and the British media loves stories about the royals, the British public eats it up.
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now I understand why the desperate attention to the ex president's heart and operation procedure..the usa has launched an operation in afghanistan...Better to have people 's attention on an old man's heart than to millions of people who have been displaced..When G-d creates havoc, the americans glued on to tvs and turn into first class charity workers, when they create havoc, they glued on to old people's hearts, toyota cars and michelle obama's campaign to make children eat healthy foods..
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Prince Andrew clipping a cop as he drove into the palace is hard news and not sensational gossip?
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The brit-ish should be thankful of their royals, a few hundred years ago, prince andrews ancestors were killing each other and their subjects, now its just a clipping of a cop..The royals have had many murderes and ruthless killers in their hands..Beaware of the power of DNA.
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Colonel, we all knew about the surge. Didn't you get the memo?
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In contrast to some opinions above, some Americans (would you prefer my using the phrase "United Statesers"?) prefer to watch BBC news on the TV to the domestic channels a/c the BBC has a much more global view; and living in a country that participated in two major European wars in the last century, I have an interest in int'l happenings from a European viewpoint.
Also, among the websites available, the BBC has much more interesting and adult topics to discuss rather than overemphasis on entertainment "celebrities", Lindsay Lohan & Paris Hilton, e.g.
PBS often has interesting articles, but their view maintains identifiable biases toward government solving every problem. In the BBC blogs, one can find a much wider variety of views. One might even learn something! Even an old dog . . .
TeaPot562
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# 29 MAII
"I think BBC (sic) is sore because unlike the UK where they are a big fish in a little pond and even in the rest of the English speaking world, in the US BBC (sic) is nobody. Nobody even knows who they are more or less cares what they have to say. BBC (sic) never gets the "scoop" in the US, it's always someone else. Hell, during the presidential campaign the candidates wouldn't even talk to BBC (sic) or the foreign press and that includes Barack Obama. In America, BBC (sic) is nothing more than a footnote."
It's the BBC. Like the USA.
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CrackPot562;
I prefer to think of watching BBC as keeping an eye on the enemy. You never know when those nasty Redcoats might try to stage a comeback. Anyway, we'll be ready for them if they do.
IMO World Focus is a better half our World News Program than BBC's offering on PBS. And of course PBS's 1 hour nightly news is excellent.
As journalists, BBC is relatively mediocre. Surprising considering their enormous financial resources until you remember that they are a government agency and a quasi monopoly that doesn't have to compete for a market share, at least not in the UK. BBC also seems to be unregulated and able to run amok without consequence. Those in the UK government who are responsible to seeing that it fulfill its mandate seem to be asleep at the switch. BBC is neither fair nor objective often interspersing editorial opinion nearly inseparably with news reporting.
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Again mArcusAurelius what was the point of that post about Blair? Why?
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29. At 10:03pm on 12 Feb 2010, MarcusAureliusII
Only recognized on HBO as the most reliable news source available in the US. Apart from that...why do you even bother with these specious arguments? Its certainly not the pursuit of truth. Some kind of egocentric self aggrandizement?
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With apologies to James Taylor, "...as though these celebrities are your close friends, as though you know how the story ends..."
Americans do not have a corner on obsession with 'brand-name' celebrities...whether politicians, performers, or royalty. As I remember, an abundance of Brits and other Europeans, as well as thousands of (mostly) female 'Mourning Tourists' from all over the world left tons of floral debris, balloons, and stuffed toys against the fences of Buckingham Palace in fit of 'mourning' for someone they knew only through the eyes of her publicists, royal press releases, and the paparazzi....Britain's errant Princess Di. I remember briefly watching and wondering what stage-tragedy these people were starring in?
I further wonder if there is not an epidemic of personal boredom and mediocrity, perhaps a sense of Absurdity, among the middle-class women of the Western world which incites them to indulge in this fantasy of intimacy with celebrities. I doubt that tonight (or tomorrow as the case may be) the women of Tibet are hovered around available TV's awaiting word of Bill Clinton's condition and release from hospital...and, as for me and my male friends, having not voted for Clinton in the first place, we lost interest in him as soon as we saw how low he had set his standards. What an underachiever! The 'leader' of the free world settles for Monica Lewinsky. Is that a waste of celebrity or what?
It would be interesting to see the demographics of 'celebrity' obsession, that is, who is reading and following this? Who is it intended for? When an editor chose this (celebrity) story, and replaced the story about almost 4 million children under 5 years old, each year, dying of dysentary and malaria world-wide...or some other unimportant story, who did he make that choice for?
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44. At 02:10am on 13 Feb 2010, Peter Whitby wrote:
"Again mArcusAurelius what was the point. . ."{
Is the question. Or more accurately, what's the point of three people using this (BBC) blog to pursue the same single-minded obsessions whatever the subject?
Here we go again: a serious topic founders in absurdity and the fatuous rubbish of uninformed egocentricity.
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The shift away from print dependent on subscriptions and advertising, to free electronic media, and the shifts in ownership to leveraged corporations, seems to have loosened up the moorings of news media so they are nearly all free to pursue the greatest possible market share. That would mean the most common denominator, the content that attracts the largest numbers of viewers.
Deregulation 'because we can't afford to produce quality in this market' has completed the environmental shift - advertising share, ad and program content, sensationalism, catchy come-ons, even in purported news programs.
Look through the available programming on your television. I know you do this pretty often in an effort to find something worth your time. If you took time to chart the kinds of programming you saw as you flipped through (make up your own categories), the kind of ads, and the number of hits on ad vs. programs (include purely commercial channels in the ad column), you would come up with a fair analysis of what the greatest number of viewers want to see.
End of story.
Two questions for further discussion: Why are Americans like this? Why is it more so as the years go by? It wasn't like this when I was a kid, or even when I was raising a family.
Second, do viewers in other countries have these appetites? To this extent, and more or less?
Here, those of us who complain about it are clearly a small minority - not worth marketing to.
KScurmudgeons two cents, having not found anything on the TV tonight. Best go curl up with the wife and a book.
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"Here we go again: a serious topic founders in absurdity and the fatuous rubbish of uninformed egocentricity."
Thank you, squirrel - your reinforce my confidence that invective can be much better strewn with words of more than four letters.
I tip my hat and bow -
KScurmudgeon
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Ref. 23, colonelartist:
"Was it my queen's english that made you think I was brit-ish?"
Maybe. You do have a certain facility with the language. Have you read any Faulkner? He does a stream of consciousness writing. I think you might enjoy him.
I've worked along side a family of Lebanese, three Persians, and at least twenty Indians, and I've never been shy about asking them to tell me how they see things. It's fascinating. You get a feel for the region that you can't get through the Press.
I've never had that experience with an Afghan or Pakistani. There's a big hole in my understanding of the world right in the middle of things in that region.
I have so many questions.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
The Afghan offensive mentioned by the Colonel.
I'm sure well be watching bang bang footage, and hearing about body counts soon enough.
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The trouble with 24 hour news (as I've suggested already) is that long, long before you've watched it for 24 hours, like reading Marcus, Magick, and the Colonel, you come to realise you've heard it all before. Far too often.
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53. At 04:50am on 13 Feb 2010, chronophobe wrote:
I'm sure well be watching bang bang footage, and hearing about body counts soon enough.
Not while the Winter Olympics are on. Let the first American win gold and you'll start hearing idiotic questions like, "Senator, how do you think this will change the mood of the country, and do you think it will have a positive effect on the economy?"
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48. At 03:18am on 13 Feb 2010, KScurmudgeon wrote:
"Second, do viewers in other countries have these appetites? To this extent, and more or less?"
Not sure. 'Top ten most read stories' on the Beeb website (NB, not the same running order as BBC radio or TV news) at this moment (But it is 5 am here and most brits are fast asleep, as I should be!) are :
UK winner of £56m on EuroMillions
Cut working week to 21 hours, urges think tank
Major Afghan offensive launched
Police pelted at mass rave party
Pirate boss to make the web pay
Pc passed secrets to drug dealer
Deadly shooting at US university
Pubs win court battle over music
Obesity 'set' before age of two
When time flies
On CBS:
Olympic Luger Killed in Training-Run Crash
Guards Watched As Girl Beaten at Bus Depot
Alexander McQueen Found Dead
Starving Girl, 14, Escapes Bathroom Prison
Alexander McQueen Suicide; Fashion Designer Hanged, Says Paper
On CNN:
Winter Weather
Haiti Earthquake
Winter Olympics
Bill Clinton
Afghanistan
Toyota Recall
Iran
Alexander McQueen
John Mayer
Where the Jobs Are
(Though these are 'hot topics' and I don't know whether that is the same as 'most read').
France 24:
NIGERIA Vice president assumes leadership
SRI LANKA Defeated presidential candidate Fonseka to face court martial
USA At least five killed in Connecticut power plant explosion
UKRAINE Opposition leader Yanukovich set for political comeback
COSTA RICA Laura Chinchilla becomes nation's first female president
(But bear in mind Fr24 is a distinct oddity and is run to Sarkozy's and the Elysee's agenda; That list seems bizarre, and I don't really believe it; it's also desperately out of date for a 24 hour news channel . . .)
Unfortunately I couldn't find a similar 'most popular' for RAINews 24 (except, inevitably the second story is about bloody Berlusconi) or DeutscheWelle.
And I don't care what ppl like the Vampire say, but whenever it's time for the Turner Prize, or the Man Booker, they are usually among the lead items on the telly and radio news over here, so we can't be entirely drowned in trivia and celebrity!
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53. chronophobe:
There will certainly be plenty of "X hundred Taliban/Al Quaeda killed" (and no attention paid to displaced or dead civilians--in the US media, every body is a terrorist's) and a plethora of 'American Hero Marine' stories over the next few days.
And, of course never-ending punditry by retired armchair colonels or generals who screwed up in every war they were ever involved in but still know how it should be done. (Just as MA's fallen arches qualify him to be an expert on fighting a war.)
Live 'bang-bang' film, unless it's supplied by the US military, you won'tget. It might show the wrong sort of people dying.
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55. At 05:27am on 13 Feb 2010, Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:
"do you think it will have a positive effect on the economy?"
If you melt down the medals, maybe it might.
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56.
And on ABC:
Luger Crashes, Dies Hours Before Olympics Start
Bidens: We Aren't All Like the Edwards Family
Exclusive: Osama's Son Issues Dire Warning
WATCH: Raw Video of Fatal Luge Accident
WATCH: Newly Released Photos of 9/11
WATCH: Aged Tires: A Driving Hazard?
PHOTOS: Newly Released 9/11 World Trade Center Aerials
PHOTOS: Alicia Keys' Too-Teeny Bikini
(Wot? The station that broke the news about Clinton's not-so-near demise, and nobody cares?)
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58. At 05:56am on 13 Feb 2010, squirrelist wrote:
55. At 05:27am on 13 Feb 2010, Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:
"do you think it will have a positive effect on the economy?"
If you melt down the medals, maybe it might.
_______________________________________
Oh now, don't be so depressed - these grand affairs always stimulate economies, unless the venue is too small, the snow just doesn't make an adequate appearance, or some tragedy as has already started makes it all a real bummer. Three are lots of ways to show it costs the locals more than it brings in, but how much money do you imagine is spent all together - preparation,training, coaches and entourages, travel for hundreds of thousands, the press, advertising, advertising, souvenirs, fillers for 'news' programming with the attendant advertising. There has been a pre-winter games channel on cable for weeks.
I don't know about your neighborhood, but these prairie cities exist only by the will of their citizen-promoters to create something out of the treeless dust. From the beginning it has been so in this country. have you ever heard of a Corn Palace? Enough to make a squirrel apoplectic.
L.A. is the same way. No justification for a city there at all. No water, no port, no industry before dreamland settled there for the scenery.
I went to high school in a town named after Henry Huntington, the railroad magnate. The land was platted and then lots were given away as an incentive for mid-western farmers to buy encyclopedias from traveling salesmen. The land was the free gift - they paid for the books without seeing the lots or the town. Then about ten years later they discovered oil in town, and tore it down again to lay out the oil field. Made some farmers happy back in Minnesota. In the West you can do that.
Thanks for the information about European website news. TV is still a better sampling of the populace here - but it looks about the same. Really it is appalling. If I could pick and choose among the 200 or so channels broadcast I wouldn't complain, although even National Geographic and the History channel have gone to producing 'ghost' shows with radio-drama narration. I'm just getting too old and irrelevant.
KScurmudgeon, in the weekend.
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KScurmudgeon wrote:
The shift away from print dependent on subscriptions and advertising, to free electronic media, and the shifts in ownership to leveraged corporations, seems to have loosened up the moorings of news media so they are nearly all free to pursue the greatest possible market share. That would mean the most common denominator, the content that attracts the largest numbers of viewers.
_____________________
Part of it right now it cost and less is being news(both in quantity and information) is being printed. 2 years ago I subscribed to both Boston papers but they had a major increase in price with a corresponding decrease in information, so I started reading eletronicly. I can go through the Boston Globe in a few minutes at my health clib, so why pay when you can read online. My electronic NYT just arrived.
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colonelartist wrote:
"Its not about americans not knowing BBC, its about americans general ignorance...Comparing BBC, to private media is like comparing oranges to apples, BBC is not dependent on the ratings of its audiance, so its not going to give sensational gossips in the name of news."
You clearly don't live in the UK to see the BBC as their reports are full of sensationalism and 'celebrity' For a non-advertising network they give a lot of coverage to Apples new device, Sting's latest album, &c &c.
As to ignorance of the 'outside', Pakistanis appear to be just as guilty of this as Americans, Chinese, French, Hittites and any other nation/kingdom you can name. It is human nature. Few in their day to day lives need to worry about what events are transpring to foreigners on the other side of the world.
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chronophobe wrote:
"I'm sure well be watching bang bang footage, and hearing about body counts soon enough. "
This is very unlikely if only because it has been decided not to tout enemy casualties for fear of upsetting Moslem sensibilities. This despite the fact that the Moslems we apepar to want to keep onside say Al-Qadea and the Taliban are not obeying Moslem tenets anyway. By only showing reports of our casualties (and this is not the fault of the news networks, this is down to government policies) it undermines support for the action on the home front.
We may get some reports from embedded reporters as various rock piles are entered or cleared but even where enemy formations are annihilated, we'll only have short, dry mentions of extending security.
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# 54 squirrelist wrote:
"The trouble with 24 hour news (as I've suggested already) is that long, long before you've watched it for 24 hours, like reading Marcus, Magick, and the Colonel, you come to realise you've heard it all before. Far too often."
Once again, in the wise words of Homer J Simpson - 'it's funny because it's true.'
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Lucy: Go Winter Olympics 2010! Let's rock it out tonight!!! :)
Today's jumps.
But as far as breaking news's concerned, this just in:
Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead!
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I thought the Canadian opening ceremony was fantastic, short of the technical difficulty at the end. The music sounded great, the dancing was fun to watch and it was all around good. I was pleasantly surprised to see Joe and Jill Biden there. Vice-President Biden is so funny and quirky. I love how open and to the point he is, which is quite endearing. One of my favorite parts of the Olympics is the Parade of Nations. It is cool to see all the different flags and people from around the world taking place in the Olympics this year.
It was very sad to hear about the Georgian luger who passed away. When it comes down to an athlete getting harmed, it doesn't matter what country they are from. Everyone feels compassion for the young man's Georgian family, team, and country. I am glad the Olympics committee gave him recognition throughout the ceremony. It is brave and courageous of the Georgian team to stay and represent.
The Olympics is all about the world coming together for the fun and love of sport. There is nothing else like it. In general, it is a really positive aspect in this world.
Go USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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The KGBBC strikes again!
Insofar as the olympics is concerned, it usuallly comes down to who has the cleverest biochemists that can invent performance enhancing drugs that escape detection by the officials. Meanwhile the citizens of the country burdened with hosting these events pay for the huge investment in a construction project that has a two week use and then most of it is often of no further value ever. Under the banner of national pride, a handful of contractors make money, the tourist industry makes money, but these media events never pay for themselves with net financial gain for the country as a whole as promised. Quite the opposite. Greece is a prime example.
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10. At 6:35pm on 12 Feb 2010, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #8
Gherkin your post is as usual off topic and offensive.
has nothing to do with the thread. except to mention as usual someone is a better person than jiimy who BTW was helping others non jewish people after the earthquake as well. (I mention jewish because gherkin thinks all should not critisise israel and should always be working for them even is they are american presidents.
IE the only reason for this post by gherkin at 2 is to say carter did not support israel.
Off topic. mods do your jobs.
get real or this thread will die the same death.
_________________
No yur enthic slur is offensive. No surprise that you have to keep chaging your id. I wonder what you would African americans that you disagree with.
It is called Hate sppech!
--------------------------
you are making up my hate speech now.
where have i expressed hate? Of anything but you.
Your origional post was removede.
why because of the reasons stated above. that my comment was removed and this post by you allowed is further evidence of the bias of the censors.
I mention Jewish people because you do without naming them. you bring carter in at every available because he has supported getting tough with Isreal.
there is NO anti semitism in my post .
I would not respond or care but you are allowed to slander me by pretending I am being anti semetic in raising the issue that you are trying to bring Israel via carter to this thread.
where is this ethnic slur you accuse me of. Mods you allowed the accusation to be posted and for it to stand.
at least allow this response to the slanderous accusation that I am making racial slurs.
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This is very unlikely if only because it has been decided not to tout enemy casualties for fear of upsetting Moslem sensibilities. This despite the fact that the Moslems we apepar to want to keep onside say Al-Qadea and the Taliban are not obeying Moslem tenets anyway. By only showing reports of our casualties (and this is not the fault of the news networks, this is down to government policies) it undermines support for the action on the home front.
We may get some reports from embedded reporters as various rock piles are entered or cleared but even where enemy formations are annihilated, we'll only have short, dry mentions of extending security.
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You dont even have any idea how many people have been displaced just because the western and northern alliance want to get rid of the people who actually come from there..Roughly 15 yrs ago, taliban had to fight these northern alliance in those areas becausse of their crimes against the civilians, and now the northern alliance have brought the western alliance to wage the war against pathans. And the result would be what? Nothing. except destruction, loss of lives, and displacing people..the taliban will comes back, its their homes, and once this operation ends, america will give power to taliban whom they will choose and those taliban will work on the behalf of those who the america will not choose, those with whom america has ego problems with..
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20 well said camberwell.
so back to the gherkin
"25. At 9:22pm on 12 Feb 2010, MagicKirin wrote:
I would argue that Bill Clinton going into the hospial is more worthy of discussion that a 2nd Michelle Obama obesity thread."
so not content with carter he moves on. now this time he just "happens" to have picked a person of colour other than bleached.
he has a bigger list of these folk. it includes other war criminals and anti Israeli people like Kofi Annan, Nelson Mandela, Bishop Tutu. Barrack Obama of course.and that one he tried to deride earlier carter who has spent thousands of hours helping house people all over the world in developing nations and america.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PR5phJESCN8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRh91FPyDJA
http://tech.mit.edu/V114/N42/haiti2.42w.html
so gherkin thinks that a relatively uneventful medical procedure on one guy who happened to have been president is more important than trying to fight the biggest killer of americans... because Michelle Obama is leading the charge.
His theme is constant.(except when ti comes to carter. then well carter did try to get peace in the middle east.
and he wants to call me a hate speaker.
That is rich.
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This operation is staged not for the benefit of afghan people so that they get rid of taliban, its staged for the american audiances, the project will be declared a success as afghan men, termed as taliban will be killed, ergo the goal of surge completed, then behind the scenes americans will talk to taliban, probably through saudi arabia and ofcourse pakistan, pick up certain so called "reformed taliban", who will do exactly what they have been doing, obama will declared the end of mission, and leave the country in a "managed chaos" state..Your media will not mention anything about the women,who would still be wearing burka and whatever the media now critisized, as it will talk about heart burn of some other president or healthy food drive of some president's wife..and scare you about iran and pakistan nuclear weapons..Not mentioning about the obama's private templars, Xe, or how it uses the criminal militia's to torture..If something will appear linking the criminals and templars with CIA, or defence departatnment, the spokesman from pentagon will say that pentagon has no such connections, the reporters will not question the spokesman that the connection is not linked to pentagon but DoD, few months later, on the third page of newspapers some journalist will write show the link of templars with cia, but by that time, the original episode would have been forgotten, and thats all. Thats how americans work.
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As to ignorance of the 'outside', Pakistanis appear to be just as guilty of this as Americans, Chinese, French, Hittites and any other nation/kingdom you can name.
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But its the americans and then the central europeans who act on this ignorance..No other country talks about the internal matters of america, but americans talk and opiniate the internal affairs of other countries as if it is written in their constitution or bible..from the clothes or what they eat, how they should conduct their lives, ready steady on your lips..and who they should elect their leaders..Have you ever heard any chinese or pakistani telling you which party and which leader you have to vote for ? or what clothes you should wear or which media channels you should watch, or which channel is more bias to one party or less to the other..Or did any pakistani tell you that the nation that cannot agree on health issue is on the loose to solve the world's problem?
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29 viewing figures for BBC america would show you are wrong.
but then you said it so we did not need to look at the popularity of the BBC. of which you spend vast time blogging and watching hyacinth re runs.
I'll add to the mods that in the last post I included links to show that Carter has been up to little else than helping people since he left office. but then what did clinton do to earn gherkins trust that carter didn't do?
teapot
", but their view maintains identifiable biases toward government solving every problem"
bull. they show that they really do think Obama is better than Bush. admit it.
43 MA the reason I suspect you are a troll becomes apparent.
you watch the news hour. world focus both great shows as you say.
equal to the BBC news in all ways .
you watch and like these but end up with your outlook on life.
that I find odd and in total contrast to your character here.
How could you watch such good news sources and end up so world hating and backwards.
if you are not just winding all up and a real liberal at heart?
How could you be such a great admirer of Charlie Rose and still think to post what you post?
provocation maybe? to stir the debate up?
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46 BK the diana was more than 24 hours wasn't it.
Listen millions had bought the pictures, the mags the tabloid and "daily diana" newspaper (not for the femail section). they felt guilty underneath all that mourning. they may have subconsciously or consciously realised their obsession with her life got her killed (unless you believe al )
I have for long time wondered how so many from ALL OVER THE WORLD. felt that way.
those flowers were not all from brits.
Either way what a wasted opportunity. if all that money had been spent on clearing mines her death may have provided some good.
PS I'm not one of those that sent flowers and enjoyed the relatively clear roads to travel off to collage on the day of the funeral. (thought they were not as empty as I would have thought from the flowers)
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I dont watch news channels..the newspapers headlines of the day are enough for me..I am not fond of second by second information..i have no use for it..when the process has ended, then I can read about it...I am not a fool to believe that a 7.8 earth equake in poorly built buildings will just kill a few people, the destruction is great, and minute by minute details informing how many people have died at 5, 6 or 7 o clock..Its not a 20/20 cricket match nor the football match ending on pentalities
Why watch when you know that after all the details when it comes to the result, it will be the same which you had assumed, no need someone else telling it.
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"Here, those of us who complain about it are clearly a small minority - not worth marketing to."
sckur lol
speaking of 24 /7 news. and diana.
I remember returning from a rather stoned night up in the Big town. I got home and flicked on the box to watch open university .(sometimes i found it interesting)
there was the news.
" diana has been in an accident, she has a broken arm and dodi who was with her had a broken leg"
"Diana has a broken arm dodi dead"
"dodi broke a leg diana injured"
it took hours and they still reported all that they did not know. because that is what they do. rush to report before they have done the research.
before they have established FACTS.
so I went to bed thinking Nasty accident ( I won't say the joke) and woke to see "Diana died"
But the night before was a night of very confused reports. None of which should have been filled because they had nothing to report.
Sometimes ,to reference Sir terry, news should be olds before it is published.
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My john you must have been a naughty boy;)
or rather reasonable;)
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There may be only one anti-semite in the entire state of Oregon and he is not even an American. It's amazing to me who we let into our country. I'm sure the immigration authorities could be more selective and still remain within the law. There's an interesting difference between restrictions on freedom of speech in America as interpreted by our courts and restrictions on speech in other places like some parts of Europe. In Germany or Austria for example, it is illegal to deny that the holocaust ever happened. Here it is not. But when hate speech can be connected to incitement to a specific crime, a tough burden of proof but one that can often be met when the circumstances warrant, then there is not only hard prison time as a consequence for the hate speaker but civil liabilities which means compensation to the victims or their survivors. Judges and juries in the US now take a dim view of this type of crime and will often bankrupt the perpetrator usually after he has been sentenced to a long prison term depending on the severity of the crime he incited. Ignorance of the law is not a viable excuse. Those who come to America thinking there is unlimited freedom of speech should learn what the law here really is and what could happen to them if they run afoul of it. What is said on these blogs within the allowed rules may be indicative of far more hateful speech by that person at different times and under different circumstances. Just a warning to foreigners here who don't know yet but might find out the hard way.
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"I sat in my office, speculating wildly, and I must admit terrorist attack was at the front of my mind. But thankfully I was wrong"...but perhaps not so wrong as you may think. There is a connection there between terrorism and Clinton. Many outside observers believe Clinton's cruise missle attack on Khartoum in Aug. '98 was an act of state terrorism. And the genocidal sanctions regime against Iraq throughout the 90's could certainly be seen as a continuing terrorist attack, as well. On second thought, you may have been on the right track after all. But Amerika was on the wrong track then - and still is now, as the bellicose Obama follows in the terrifying footsteps of war criminal Clinton.
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78. easytarget:
You're right; the problem is there seems to have been an ethos developing where news editors press for 'news' which is usually, sometimes for hours, not what actually happened, but reports of what people (some of whom turn out to be hundreds or thousands of miles away) think what happened. Or just want to get their agenda across first.
I see that ABC first reported that Hillary was 'unconcerned' 'leaving Capital[sic] Hill' when she 'heard' Bill had gone into hospital; then later, that she was 'nervous'. Both can't be true; both were from 'sources who said' and not identified. It's pathetic.
I spent (or should it be wasted?) years of withstanding wails and howls from journalists because I was responsible for holding news stories until the writer could prove s/he had at least two different and independent sources; and even greater howls of anguish when I spiked some anyway because I couldn't be convinced of the veracity of a source.
I wonder now why I bothered. (And I see that already, the 'news' on US channels is pretty obviously US army briefings--quite probably not even from Afghanistan, but the Pentagon--or taken straight from AP, who are probably getting it from the same sources.
And yet again, they are quoting people "on condition of anonymity because they were not authorised to comment'. Which, from my sub-editor's desk rings very loud alarm bells. What I want to see is "a reliable source", which means that the reporter knows the informant, their job, and their information has proved accurate and trustworthy before, not any old Tom dick and Harry who phoned someone on the switchboard and might be in charge of lost property or the bog-roll budget and can hide that behind pseudo-tendentious anonymity.
At least the Beeb has someone actually out there writing a 'diary'; though of course, we'll have to use our own judgement about how much he will really be allowed to see. But it'll be more credible than anonymous 'sources' that 'are not authorised to comment' probably because they actually know damn all.
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ref #72
As usual you lie about me.
I've criticized Obama for his policies and his lack of record and ability.
I never called him a supporter of terrorism or a war criminal.
I have called Annan, Mandela and and Tutu supporters of Palestinian terrorism their words and actions speak for themselves.
And as far as bigotry untill Mandela and Tutu explain their long silence on the ethnic clensing by Mugabe my statement stands.
Annan is a war criminal for being the leader of the U.N and doing nothing about the rape of woman and children in Darfur by U.N end workers.
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Yeah, we know all about the type of stent used on Clinton and nothing about Madoff's partners in crime or the partners who have mysteriously died around him. It's a joke!
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MK;
The entire UN, the ICC, and the Geneva Conventions are from a legal point of view absurdities which are only brought into play when it is politically convenient for one person, group, or group of nations to use them for punishing those they oppose. The entire system should be renounced and jetisoned by the United States Government. Only the supposed crimes of some, usually the victims of other crimes retaliating and trying to prevent further crimes against themselves by the same criminals are brought to the fore. So the four wars to annihilate Israel, the two terrorist campaigns called intifadas, the rocket attacks, suicide bombings, and other atrocities committed by Arabs are ignored. As are widespread violations by Islamic countries of the rights of women and children and those who want to convert to religions away from Islam. rights stated specifically in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights adopted and embodied into the UN Charter. But let just one Israeli put a house trailer on a quarter acre of land claimed by some Palestinian Arab and suddenly we have an international incident.
These laws unfairly and unevenly applied are not a way of creating justice but of imposing injustice. In a world where WMDs are already in the hands of rougue states like Iran and are at risk of falling into the hands of terrorist organizations like Hezbollah, it is not rational for any nation to conform its actions to the restrictions they impose as that thwarts the very security these laws and organizations were intended to provide. It is typioal of Europeans especially to be slaves to laws no matter how irrational or contradictory they are to common sense. We in America should pay them no heed either, European nations are no friends of ours nor are they worthy to be.
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AndyPost,
I think ColonelArtist is Russian Jewish Colonel from old country. He knows about all the tricks the Americans use to dumify the populace. He even knows about X which was interesting because that went completely over my head.
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From the now back to then. Recalling the loss of a greatly embraced President of the US, John F, Kennedy . There were grief stricken people from all walks of life mourning his passing. News coverage from the then credible networks were interested in bringing the news to the public. Many of us were saddened. Even those who knew Kennedy had followed some pathetic agendas from administrations of years gone by. It looked like the media people themselves were consumed with a sense of loss and journalism was taking a back seat to the emerging reality.
No one was seriously protesting the lack of coverage in the Vietnam war.
Presidential priority dictated the information to be handed to viewers Nationwide. Otherwise we would still have records of the mai lai massacre and others as well. Not just some photos but news worthy reels
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BsOysRpNbY
This a you tube link. It is valid and has a 'sort' of display
While some cherish the thoughts of who we are and what we look like as people. Others still would exterminate with prejudice.
Our media today, nowadays is consumed with terrific looking news casters that are gentle to the eyes of the particular viewers. The viewers that may identify with beauty and how well they articulate their like while either appearing composed and seeming proper and pretty.
The messages are being perceived by the many who do not embrace this type of movie star reporting. Face it we can paint the world to others like there is nothing to worry about, but the majority knows better. It takes a disaster sometimes to organize and unite people in a common cause. Afterward they continue their disputes and hate.
Bill Clinton was an excellent president. He did what most of us 'I assume' have done at some point of our lives. Be honest are you a saint?
A few of his political agendas were also in question. No one has gotten it 100% right yet. But someone is trying hard to get it 100% wrong. It is baffling to me. If on the other side of things this president would oppose most of his own proposals. (BHO).
Many times I watch the news and at times when there has been a terrible things being discussed, it takes only milliseconds to pass from feigned grief to extraordinary laughter and good news. Are they trying to protect us from depression? They are so sensitive, not!
Talk radio, Television, commercials that portray the need to consume a particular image, are all irresponsible and promote divisiveness in their overtures causing counter commercials in the same vein.
WE the people ought to receive courteous and complete coverage and care from any medical facility. Exactly like the senators and presidents,ex presidents and any political servant. Does anyone object to good treatment. Changing the goal posts at will for some and not for others MAKES THE POINT ALL BY ITSELF. Most of the senators in office today are elderly people. The youngest of them is in Fl and the second is in NY. 40 and 43. The rest range from 45-49 a handful, and 50 thru 60's with some in their 80's. Who pays these tax benefits? By all definition Ted Kennedy could have opted to end of life agreement and died in dignity. It's just not good for the gander.
I didn't hear very much from the media about where the surplus from the Clinton years went. And it was absconded mighty quickly.
Where are those beautiful picture perfect newscasters and commentators
Now. Complaining and siding with politicians of their choice. Is that fair reporting. Unbiased? It seems to me that whenever there is facts to be reported on a favorite of theirs, they shy the on the questions and present the minimum damaging information. Clinton is ok and I an glad he is. Go Mass Healthplatinum!!!
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Bill Clinton was an excellent president. He did what most of us 'I assume' have done at some point of our lives. Be honest are you a saint?
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be honest, do we run for the presidentship? We know we are not honest, therefore we dont even think of spreading dishonesty by even thinking of running for presidents or prime ministers. Bill Clinton couldnt even run his own home honestly, cheated on his wife, though I am sure he took the oath in the chruch to be faithful to his wife til death did them apart. Such a person is being projected to be honestly ruled the country is something americans have to find out themselves..A dishonest person and a hypocrite who even though cheated on his wife, never stood up for all those senators and congressmen and governers who had to resgin for cheating their wives, he didnt resgin and never once did he questioned why the rest, after him have to resgin..Here too he is being dishonest.
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YOU HAVEN'T SINNED? YOU HAVE BEEN PERFECT.?
people that have committed crimes and cannot find a job, what should they do? Not rape and arson, reckless murders, just some regular crimes.
He got impeached by immoral peers trying to exact morality to defend their immoral views. He lied as well and that got him in more trouble that than what he did with Lewinsky. You believe no president lies? They get into more trouble at times, for telling a truth or half truth than for lying. But no one calls them on it. Could it be that dirt is common at the white house.
We don't always need to hear the truth. A fair person to all of the US citizens is quite good. Years ago when the president ordered the medias not to publicize something, they adhered and there was no bickering between them. Now we tell them where we are going to do a good thjing and where to find a bad one, pertaining to our opponents.
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# 84 MagicKirin
I know – one shouldn’t feed the trolls – but ignoring them unfortunately doesn’t seem to make them go away, and I’d hate anyone to deduce that silence indicates assent.
"As usual you lie about me."
Amazing and not v amusing, what MK is allowed to say about other people, and what other people are not allowed to say about him.
[He wasn't addressing me by the way.]
"I've criticized Obama for his policies and his lack of record and ability."
Well no. That would imply a rational dissection of these. What you have done is essentially just constantly whined that you disagree with his policies, and you don't think he had a sufficient record or sufficient ability to be President - the fact that the electorate overruled you on that one appears to have escaped you. As ever, you appear to mistake your prejudices and your statements for facts.
"I never called him a supporter of terrorism or a war criminal."
How honoured he must feel. As Chris Rock put it - 'What do you want - a cookie?'
"I have called Annan, Mandela and and Tutu supporters of Palestinian terrorism their words and actions speak for themselves."
As indeed do yours, eg smears on anyone who dares question Israel. You recently announced here that Mandela and Annan do not think that Jews and Whites are equal to them. The only logical inference possible from this is that you are calling them racist anti-Semites.
Also for the record, Israel was notoriously a friend and ally of racist Apartheid South Africa. Were you still concerned about African civil rights then?
Mandela was unjustly locked up for decades by that racist regime. Most people consider that he showed almost saintly forgiveness on his release. But clearly he's not up to MK's exalted standards of tolerance...
"And as far as bigotry until [sic] Mandela and Tutu explain their long silence on the ethnic clensing [sic] by Mugabe my statement stands."
Firstly, while Mugabe is indeed a vile and murderous dictator, AFAIK most of his victims have been Black Africans, ie the great majority of those who live in Zimbabwe. Not sure if that constitutes ethnic cleansing - unless of course all you are concerned about is his violence against Whites...
Here's Wiki on this issue
"Despite their common background as national liberators, Mandela and Mugabe were seldom seen as close. Mandela criticised Mugabe in 2000, referring to African leaders who had liberated their countries but had then overstayed their welcome. In his retirement, Mandela spoke out less often on Zimbabwe and other international and domestic issues, sometimes leading to criticism for not using his influence to greater effect to persuade Mugabe to moderate his policies. His lawyer George Bizos revealed that Mandela has been advised on medical grounds to avoid engaging in stressful activity such as political controversy. Nonetheless, in 2007, Mandela attempted to persuade Mugabe to leave office "sooner than later", with "a modicum of dignity", before he was hounded out like Augusto Pinochet. Mugabe did not respond to this approach. In June 2008, at the height of the crisis over the Zimbabwean presidential election, Mandela condemned the "tragic failure of leadership" in Zimbabwe."
As for Tutu, here is the BBC in 2004 - 6 years ago - "Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe has hit out at South Africa's former Archbishop Desmond Tutu as "evil". Archbishop Tutu once said that Mr Mugabe resembled a caricature of an African dictator. "He is an angry, evil and embittered little bishop," he told Sky News". So, it appears you and Mugabe have something in common.
"Annan is a war criminal for being the leader of the U.N and doing nothing about the rape of woman [sic] and children in Darfur by U.N end [sic] workers."
I don't have the time or energy to research this, and as ever you provide no evidence. Maybe it is true. OTOH by the same logic your great friends Bush and Cheney are presumably war criminals for the death and destruction they have caused and the torture they have instigated. And what of your other hero - Sharon ? 'In 1983 a commission established by the Israeli Government found that Sharon as Minister of Defense during 1982 Lebanon War bore personal but indirect responsibility for the massacre by Lebanese militias of Palestinian civilians in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila'.
As ever, your self righteous indignation appears distinctly selective...
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# 79 easytarget wrote:
"My john you must have been a naughty boy;)
or rather reasonable;)"
The latter
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There's only one, no two words to describe ABC's actions: Drama queens.
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84 yet again you try.
You have lumped all the names together in certain comments. most here have read them so do give up.
try this. don't bother trying to defame any of them unless you have a real reason.
You said carter should do some humanitarian acts.
you still have not backed down from that.
I showed links to the most recent actions I could find. there are actions like this for years.
Will you accept that Carter is a kind person who has helped millions with his efforts?
will you accept that Mandela has done more to fight racism than anyone you care to mention.
there are people dying in the congo. all sorts of places. why do you only care about Darfur and zimb.
is it because in one there are muslims doing the killing and the other a non white guy taking white peoples farms?
are these just convenient excuses to carry on with your bigoted views.
You have lied about me almost every post you have commented on me or to me.
92 I thought that would be the case;) good luck . I suggest offensive talk at all times.
Some have wondered why I am. because I learned from experience that they tend to stay on the board longer than well written well thought out but polite therefore wholly reasonable comments.
So I make the same comments from behind the veil of stupid thick headed blacksmif;)
ps thankyou for defending me in 91
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Perhaps we should take a century to evaluate the actions of an occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., to determine whether in the long run his/her actions had good or evil effects.
America's aggressive foreign policy can be traced back to Woodrow Wilson's determination to enter World War I on the side of the British and French - "to make the world safe FOR DEMOCRACY". That is, on the side of Serbia (a democracy) against Austria (a monarchy) and Germany (a monarchy). Austria's beef against Serbia was that Serbia refused to turn the assassin over to Austria for questioning - somewhat similar to the USA's beef against the Taliban after 9-11 for refusing to turn Bin Laden over to the USA for prosecution. If the USA stays out of WWI, the opponents will eventually arrive at a settlement by mutual exhaustion. No harsh punitive settlement against Germany & Austria; no hyperinflation in those countries in the 1920s, destroying much of the middle class; no rise of Hitler and the Third Reich. Probably no WW II.
Further, Wilson's intervention in WW I laid a precedent for FDR's actions as follows: Lend-Lease in 1940; Freezing all German & Italian funds in the USA in April, 1941; Freezing all Japanese funds in the USA in June, 1941; and warning Japan that any attempt to take control of the Dutch East Indies (the Netherlands had been occupied by Germany in 1940) would be considered a hostile act by the USA. Recall that Douglas MacArthur, a general with known ties to the Hoover (Republican) administration was posted to the Phillipines. Japan was known historically to launch wars by "surprise attacks". A reasonable conjecture is that the WH may have thought that Japan might consider a surprise attack against US installations in the Phillipines, leaving MacArthur to be scapegoated.
Anyway, USA gets involved in WW II, and ends up as the guarantor of Western European boundaries. The Truman Doctrine and Marshall Plan start with reference to Greece & Turkey (assuming an expansionist USSR, considered a real threat in 1947) and, by the way, picking up the Israel state newly founded in the Palestine British Mandate (left over from the British-enabled dissolution of the Turkish Empire in WW II).
So the Kennedy-Johnson intervention against the North Vietnamese (assumed to be a puppet of a monolithic Communist Empire) begins about 1961. At the point where the head of the S. Vietnamese state is assassinated by his generals (about Oct. 1963), and JFK, forewarned through his ambassador in S. Vietnam, takes no action either to prevent the general's coup or to warn the-then Head of state: At that point the US in effect has taken ownership of the S. Vietnamese govt, as the original patriot (against the French colonial regime) has been removed, with at least tacit US support.
At some point in the 1950s the US at least tacitly encourages Iranian factions supporting the Shah to remove Mohammed Mossadeqh (spelling?) a/c Mossadeqh opposed by western oil companies. At this point, US can be blamed for anything around the world that goes wrong a/c corrupt regimes. If we intervene we get blamed; if we fail to intervene, that decision can also be blamed.
Then after the Shah is overthrown, the USA decides to support Iraq in the Iraq-Iran war in the 1980s. That decision by the Reagan administration was definitely a bad one.
Clinton's administration follows the precedent when we land a small combat force in Mogadishu. He also supports a peacekeeping force in a breaking-up Yugoslavia, against Serbia.
Domestically a faction of the GOP is called isolationist for suggesting a retreat of our military back within our own borders. "Fortress America" is the concept. In the 2000 election, Patrick Buchanan is a minor party candidate drawing a few votes on the theory that, given the peaceful breakup of the USSR, there is no longer justification for the USA keeping a large military presence in Europe and the middle east.
So "W"s push to further intervene after the attack of 9-11 has lots of precedents. The decision to invade Iraq was unjustified; but so were many of the other ones above, back to Woodrow Wilson. "W" was not impeached for this because, like Wilson, he sold the Congress into going along with him on the intervention.
TeaPot562
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81 I'll bite
" Those who come to America thinking there is unlimited freedom of speech should learn what the law here really is and what could happen to them if they run afoul of it."
so how the hell are you still allowed to post here.
you who have directly called for the destruction of the sewers in Gaza (done a year and a bit ago)(called for two years ago)
you who have promoted the hate through lies of muslims every day until recently.
(what happened get wise?)
you and gherkin and others have said repeatedly "all terrorists are muslims" you have said that trhe people of gaza deserve to be killed.
yet you want to talk to me about hate speech. yet again the only reason I ask for you to be banned (and you have made a good argument as to why) is because you promote hate through lies all the time.
you promote the hate of Europeans by lying about your knowledge.
same on middle east issues.(though note you have calmed down on that subject and tend to be real quiet only when there is some "mystery " person making the real offensive comments.
funny how both you and Allan have a narrow minded view of what an american is.
being born to one and having a passport doesn't count for you.
you try to present the air of intelligence and then promote hate.
every time.
you wish to play semantics but then stumble on the reality of those semantics.
An extra O ring MAY have helped;)
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Squirrelist.
they are obsessed with being the first;)
it is funny. the first to make a mistake is not something I rush to;)
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ref #91
I don't know why I bother deucating you.
Wiki is not a reliable source.
Mandela supporter the terrorism activities of Palestinians against Israel.
He stood by while white were burned off their land.
He has done nothing internationaly of worth outside of South Africa except criticize statesman like Blair and Reagan far greater men and who have done far more for the world than he ever did.
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ref 96
you and gherkin and others have said repeatedly "all terrorists are muslims" you have said that trhe people of gaza deserve to be killed.
yet you want to talk to me about hate speech. yet again the only reason I ask for you to be banned (and you have made a good argument as to why) is because you promote hate through lies all the time.
you promote the hate of Europeans by lying about your knowledge.
same on middle east issues.(though note you have calmed down on that subject and tend to be real quiet only when there is some "mystery " person making the real offensive comments.
funny how both you and Allan have a narrow minded view of what an american is.
being born to one and having a passport doesn't count for you.
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Well you have not made a good one since your the one who keeps chaging alias and MA and I have not.
Ihave stated many time that only a tiny percentage of moslems are or support terrorism.
What I have stated are two points, not read carefuly:
1. Almost all of this era religious based terrorists who use religion to justify their acts are moslem.
2. Leaders of nations with moslem majorities do not do enough to denounce islamic terrorism especially when the victims are Jews, Christians and Hindus.
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# 98 MagicKirin
"ref #91
I don't know why I bother deucating (sic) you."
I think that sentence pretty much sums up MK
And by the way, MK, educating, or indeed deucating, does not mean 'repeating MK's endless list of bile and prejudice'. Buy a dictionary. Look it up.
"Wiki is not a reliable source."
Indeed? That being the case, perhaps you will tell us which fact that I quoted them on is false. If you go to their site, you can look up the references they cite. But first, look up 'ev-id-ence' in that dictionary.
And of course, my other source was the BBC - you are strangely silent on them.
Of course, MK has made it clear that Wiki are on his unending hate list as they refuse to accept him as an unbiased authority on the Middle East.
"Mandela supporter [sic] the terrorism activities of Palestinians against Israel."
Many millions if not billions of people throughout the world support or at least understand at least some of the actions of Palestinians against Israel.
And of course, MK has repeatedly made clear his blinkered view that any action against Israel is terrorism, any action by Israel is completely justified self defence, when Israel kills innocent people it’s not Israel’s fault etc etc
"He stood by while white [sic] were burned off their land.”
As I thought - it's only the White victims of Mugabe you care about.
'He stood by'? As indeed did Bush. What was he supposed to do? Invade? That's gone real well for the US.
"He has done nothing internationaly [sic] of worth outside of South Africa except criticize statesman [sic] like Blair and Reagan far greater men and who have done far more for the world than he ever did."
More bile and prejudice disguised as fact.
‘Statesmen’ in Kirin means ‘politicians I like’ in English.
Yes, Blair's foreign policy successes in Iraq and Afghanistan are recognised around the world - and indeed in the UK....
And all Mandela did was avert a bloody racial civil war and endless death and misery by practising and preaching reconciliation and forgiveness.
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He stood by while white were burned off their land.
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The whites should just leave africa, their natural and ethnic homeland...Isnt this what you support , the occupation by saying the jews have the right because they lived there, generously apply your logic to the whites in south africa..Mandella doesnt have to do anything, he has done more than any other european leader has done..When he came to power, he did not do anything to the white rule that basically treated the natives as objects.
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Mandella doesnt have to do anything, he has done more than any other european leader has done..When he came to power, he did not do anything to the white rule that basically treated the natives as objects.
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Avance apology to the church of england, but even when jesus return as a powerful son of G-d, he will kill and fight, Mandela when he came to power, did what everyone else has only preached ,Except for Mohammd, he didnt go into the revange mode..
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99. MagicKirin:
"2. Leaders of nations with moslem majorities do not do enough to denounce islamic terrorism especially when the victims are Jews, Christians and Hindus."
****************
There's an interesting article in Newsweek by Fareed Zakaria, "The Jihad Against the Jihadis", about what Middle Eastern countries are doing about their extremists.
When a government is threatened, it deals with its extremists. When citizens are murdered, they turn on extremists. When it was just us as the targets, eh, no biggie.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233607
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ref #100
Here is one of many examples why Wikipedia can not be used as a relliable source.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83640
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# 104 MagicKirin wrote:
"ref #100
Here is one of many examples why Wikipedia can not [sic] be used as a relliable [sic] source.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=83640"
I asked MK for any evidence that the few lines I quoted from Wikipedia were incorrect. The usual deafening silence resulted.
[For the record, naturally I never claim that Wikipedia is always right - nor do they. And nor is any media outlet. However they do at least attempt to [a] source their claims and [b] amend what is incorrect. Unlike MK.]
But for once MK had tried to justify one of his sweeping generalisations. So I tried his link..It didn't work - timed out.
However, since it's a link to WND.com, I looked them up. On Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WorldNetDaily
I'd recommend it. It makes fascinating reading and explains a lot about MK.
Here's a few choice samples
"The website's Commentary page features editorials from the site's founder, Joseph Farah and other social conservative authors such as Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, David Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Chuck Norris."
"A commentary by Canadian evangelical Tristan Emmanue decried so called "Anglo-Saxon self-hatred" in Canada and the United States, and used "warring factions" of third world immigrants as a base against multiculturalism in order to suggest a whites-only immigration policy for North America."
"During the closing days of the 2008 presidential campaign, and in the weeks following Barack Obama's election as president of the United States, WorldNetDaily posted numerous articles questioning Obama's citizenship status and consequent eligibility to be president." Ah yes - the birthers...
"WorldNetDaily has argued against health care reform in the United States, in one article stating that the reforms appear designed "to create the type of detention centre" that people "fear" could be used as "concentration camps for political dissidents, such as occurred in Nazi Germany.""
I tried to actually look at the WND site to see the original for myself - but again, it times out. Must be a liberal-commie-pinko-Muslim conspiracy.
Anyway - isn't it great to see where MK gets his 'ideas', and the objective source he wants the rest of us to rely on?
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Further to my #105, assuming the Mods allow it. I referred to WND.com, which MK refers us to. For some reason I cannot get it via Firefox, but I can via Explorer.
There are some wonderful links from it. I think this one is the best. It's called 'Project Enoch'.
"The vast majority of websites which provide information on 2012 hardly provide insight into how 2012 fits into the the emergence of the coming Antichrist new world order fueled by the world's most powerful secret organizations yet this is an absolute fact."
"In hours of research and trawling through hundreds of books and reports on the Maya Prophecies, Planet X and Nibiru, across different religions, civilisations and ideologies such as the Sumerians, Egyptians and Nazi Germany, it became clear that all of these areas are important in building the foundation for understanding the 2012 end of the world debate."
Riiiight....
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jf
"funny how both you and Allan have a narrow minded view of what an american is.
being born to one and having a passport doesn't count for you."
Among other things jf, being an American is a state of mind. You can come to America, live in America, live among Americans, but unless you arrive at that state of mind you can never be one. I think your prejudices and your way of looking at the world is so fixed in your mind that you do not have the flexibility to ever arrive at that state. Even if you were to somehow meet all of the qualifications for citizenship and become one nominally, you would never truly be one. Deep down America is an alien place to you, a place you will never be at one with. How ironic that the real reason you must stay here is not due to any pet having to be quarantined were you to go back to the UK as you claimed but because there is the only place where there is a market for your peculiar skills. That and the majesty of rural Oregon compels you to stay which only makes you angrier. Your rage is so obvious, you unwillingness to accept what you cannot change let alone see that it is right a conflict that will haunt you for the rest of your life.
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Make mine a double in Dublin;
I think it's Old Bushmills that is the best fuel to get you up to a high enough orbit to reach the mother ship.
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To MarcusAureliusII #108
So in the recent exchange between John_From_Dublin and MagicKirin from about post #84, which side of the argument do you most identify with?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
PS marcus I have always been american you forget that. I have lived here as much as many americans you would respect as americans. More than some if they had parents in the state department probably.
I have also realised long ago that you for starters Know nothing about anything that you would honestly share.
Like I said I like a good swimming hole. I stay, I also told you of the cat that can't travel easy.
and I mentioned the missus would move.
But I am also a blacksmith. you understand. You tried to belittle my knowledge on metal going on about your time working changing fuses at Bethlehem. so you know I am into work with heavy tools.So surely you can see that for someone like me who thinks most places are screwed (thanks techies you are really helping;) what is the point in moving. After all those in the UK can hardly escape the rampaging americans evangelicals and in the UK I cannot threaten to shoot them grave yard dead.(even though I don't go for guns)
so give up you have another american that disagrees with you. but then I feel good about that. because though you sometimes read the bloody obvious in a situation you forever make a conclusion that ends up more mixed up than my metaphors .
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theres a lot of accusations flying today for the mods to be too selective here.
gherkin says
"Well you have not made a good one since your the one who keeps chaging alias and MA and I have not."
and marcus the man of a thousand.
both amusing. gloating in the fact that despite vile rabid anti human talk from you both suggesting death of millions and hate for more you maintain the same names.
that somehow you have made the BBC blog look like the playground for the hate mongering folk that like to start war.
power meetkat don't think you and the adrieinny aren't in on this.
it all applies to you and those random aliases that appear spouting your rubbish so often.
we all know I could be banned this post removed and I will start again and be back as soon as I choose.
but you guys are still able to make the BBC look like there is some strange bias.
Or at least like fools.
so gloat on.
Marcus you finally got to see that I'm Jack Frost(does that sound like a real name to you?). well done.
you could just ask.
Afetr all I have always been quite obviously me. Unlike you guys I change because I am forced to.
that would be "persecution" if that was because of my posts then I ask again why you guys have not received similar bannings.
Happylaze was considered" an offensive name".
You make it easy, targets.
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mods remember that while these folk continue to suggest I am illegally here in the usa I should be allowed to answer them.
"Even if you were to somehow meet all of the qualifications for citizenship and become one nominally, you would never truly be one"
they have both been told many time that I am american.
they persist. And we have nothing but cowards that hide behind their blog names to throw insults. all cowards.
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CUTTING THRU THE CRAP!
What makes a good journalist? The ability to just cut thru the crap, and having a nose as to just what is and what is not crap. Now, Bubba should have been filed under the Medical Journalist domain;
* Is this a common occurance, among Quad-Heart Surgery patients?
* How dangerous was this before, its discovery?
* What are patients of this type told to do to prevent this, and are there any medications that could have prevented this.
* It occurs within [5] Five years of surgery, how long will the new procedure be good for?
* Will there be extra restriction upon his lifestyle?
It's nothing more that a Your Health Today item, send a rookie, or Dr. Who, with a sonic screw driver.
1st: This month the top of the rock items are [CHINA], what are they going to do this week when the Dali Lama acts like the exiled President of Tibet? What will China do if the Congress still won't stop the sale of arms to the Nationalist Chinese.
2nd: The Media Messiah Imperial President of the Empire is now going to rule by executive order, to get what he wants, that should raise a stink.
3rd: The Germans aren't going to give over any information to the Empire that it doesn't want by a vote of the German Parliament.
The problem with journalists is they are no longer press pass wearing hungry for a byline reporter, they got college degrees, to prove that they don't need a copy writer or someone at the end of a phone, saying GO! give me what you got and were going to run with it.
It's all poop scooper journalism, they take a dump and its news if they say it is. When the Dreamers, Thinkers, Workers, Netcitizens, and Tea-baggers get their news from comedians, the jokes on college idiot journalist. It took a blogger to figure out that a JOURNALIST got it wrong about a typewritten that couldn't have been used during the era a form was written bring him down. Again were in the era or not NEWS BUT POOP SCOOPER JOURNALISM.
HERCULE TRIATHLON SAVINIEN
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_marko #109
I agree with MK insofar as he goes in posting #84. But IMO his statements are far too narrow, too limited. Here's what he said;
"I've criticized Obama for his policies and his lack of record and ability.
I never called him a supporter of terrorism or a war criminal."
I am certain that President Obama does not support terrorism nor is he a war criminal by the definitions embodied in the absurd code of current international laws. However, President Obama IMO has been far too lax in pursuing terrorists to the detriment of America's security. He starts by makeing the fatal mistake of treating them as ordinary criminals instead of as an irregular army at war to destroy the United States and Western civilization to impose an Islamic Caliphate on the entire world. The decisions to close GITMO, not to use waterboarding and other extreme measures of interrogation, not to use extraordinary renditions, and to try terrorists like the Christmas bomber in criminal courts instead of military tribunals as irregulars are in my view serious tactical errors. I do not buy the argument that America's treatment of terrorists helps the terrorists recruit more terrorists. BTW, I was equally critical of President Bush for the same reason, he did not go nearly far enough. In my view, so called international law and the uneven way it is applied does not offer America security, it puts America in greater jeopardy. Therefore unless and until it can be fixed, America should ignore it. Any government's number one obligation is the protection of its own people especially on their own soil. If that means intrusive actions to foil plots being hatched around the world which the local government can't or won't eliminate, then America should take it upon itself without apology to anyone. No President has a legitimate excuse for not taking such actions. His only accountability is to the American People and no one else. President Obama will get a mid term report card this November on election day and a final report card if and when he runs for a second term.
"I have called Annan, Mandela and and Tutu supporters of Palestinian terrorism their words and actions speak for themselves.
And as far as bigotry untill Mandela and Tutu explain their long silence on the ethnic clensing by Mugabe my statement stands."
Correct but they have much more to answer for. Their failure to apply the same standards to all violations of human rights wherever they are or whomever calling attention to them offends labels them undeniably as hypocrites. It is this kind of selective application of principle that distinguishes them as people of political agendas as opposed to people of high moral principle.
"Annan is a war criminal for being the leader of the U.N and doing nothing about the rape of woman and children in Darfur by U.N end workers."
In many places where the UN is supposed to keep the peace, it is the UN workers themselves who are the criminals and they do not get punished for their crimes. The arrival of the UN is often just replacing one group of criminals with another.
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jf;
I do not believe you are American by any standard. Your claim now not only contradicts your prior statements about having been born in England, you attitudes reflect a culture that does not pass the smell test. You are not one of us. And by the way, Americans do not use the word bloody unless it actually applies to real blood. Englishisms are not part of the American language.
I do not believe anyone would decide what country to live their life in especially if they were unhappy in a foreign country just because their cat would have to be quarrantined for a period if it made the journey too. As a cat's life expectancy is usually not much more than 15 years, at some point that will not be a viable excuse unless you deliberately attach yourself to another cat. Your spouse is a new excuse you haven't used before. Is she really willing to go live in England with you?
BTW, as a gradute engineer, as part of my training on my first job I was taught every aspect of steelmaking by top management and plant management of the second largest steel company in the US at the plant in their home city Bethlehem Pennsylvania and at what was at the time the largest steel plant in the world.in Sparrows Point Maryland. My knowledge of steelmaking from iron ore, limestone, and coal to finished products going out the door both theoretically and practically dwarfs your knowledge of metalworking.
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_marko
You will not get an honest answer from me to your question here. The KGBBC censors will not allow it.
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This came to me while reading all the posts about Diana. With no intent to offend her memory or those who cherish it -
For those who don't understand the excitement surrounding Sarah Palin, even to the point of considering Mrs. Palin as a candidate for the Presidency, isn't the basis of her popularity similar to Diana's: great photogenic quality, grace, ready smile, the ability to seem to embody the aspirations and spirit of her followers?
Those who have not grasped the power of Mrs. Palin's abilities in the last matter are not in her following. Except for this last these are the qualities of a talking head and Ms. Palin is clearly just as lost without a well prepared script, unless she is on the well trodden ground of that group's emotive platitudes.
The late princess in my view had some real substance to her, but I would not consider either for the position of head of state.
The press, here and over there, seems able to make it appear otherwise. I think it's the great photos. (The photos Mark has included always mean something.)
KScurmudgeon
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89. At 7:50pm on 13 Feb 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"be honest, do we run for the presidentship? We know we are not honest, therefore we dont even think of spreading dishonesty by even thinking of running for presidents or prime ministers. Bill Clinton couldnt even run his own home honestly,..."
You do understand at least some Americans. Why did I never hear this from an American source?
KScurmudgeon
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This is an excellent blog!... looking forward to reading more of your work! keep it up.
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RE which side of the argument do you most identify with?
1) John_From_Dublin or
2) MagicKirin
My answer is 1). Anyone disagree?
John seems to provide evidence for his assertions, beliefs and accusations.
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107. At 00:58am on 14 Feb 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Among other things jf, being an American is a state of mind. You can come to America, live in America, live among Americans, but unless you arrive at that state of mind you can never be one. I think your prejudices and your way of looking at the world is so fixed in your mind that you do not have the flexibility to ever arrive at that state. Even if you were to somehow meet all of the qualifications for citizenship and become one nominally, you would never truly be one. Deep down America is an alien place to you, a place you will never be at one with. How ironic that the real reason you must stay here is not due to any pet having to be quarantined were you to go back to the UK as you claimed but because there is the only place where there is a market for your peculiar skills. That and the majesty of rural Oregon compels you to stay which only makes you angrier. Your rage is so obvious, you unwillingness to accept what you cannot change let alone see that it is right a conflict that will haunt you for the rest of your life."
______________________________
What an outrageous comment and accusation, your divine majesty. Your statement shows that you limit your contact with Americans to those who agree with you. There may be a typical 'American state of mind', but it is as a point of reference for us rather than some sort of residency requirement. You yourself demonstrate that even the willingness to live and let live that is at the core of our outlook is not held by all of us. You would follow that with ' - or perhaps you are not really an American', but you are not the one writing this post.
Enough - I am already out of character.
KScurmudgeon
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ref #105
John from Dublin asked for a reason not to trust Wikipedia. I gave him an article and instead of arguing the facts. He argued who were some of the authors.
But if he had read the artcile he would have seen that only certain people and certain views are allowed on wikpedia.
So ref #121 Marko I do back up my statements with facts they may not be facts you want to hear.
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ref #5
The behavior of former Presidents Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter since they left office, and particularly their humanitarian endeavors and efforts to solve international problems peacefully, should be used as a model for other Presidents to follow. The irony is that it is two of the most maligned Presidents in modern history that are setting an example for those whose main interest after leaving Washington is playing golf, parachuting from planes or hiding behind the comfort zone of their reclusive lives.
________________
Big difference Bill Clinton has served as special envoy or ambassador to American Presidents one Republican and 1 Democratic. For the most part he has not undermined a sucessor. Something almost all former Presidents have respected. And for all my justified criticsm of Obama in 3 or7 year he will as well.
Jimmy Carter has undermined Presidents by giving aid and support to enemies of this county: like Hamas and other terrorist groups. validating the fradulent election result in Venezuela and supporting other human rights violators.
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# 108 MarcusAureliusII
"Make mine a double in Dublin;
I think it's Old Bushmills that is the best fuel to get you up to a high enough orbit to reach the mother ship."
I thought that sounded familiar, so I checked. Here's me, posting # 226, at 2:37pm on 12 Feb 2010, less than 2 days ago, warning "_marko" - "As you have no doubt noticed, for one who loves to hurl around slurs like confetti - all Europeans are anti-Semitic racists etc etc - MA is remarkably thin-skinned, so you can expect a vitriolic comeback, with some 'ever-so-clever' play on your name. As, I imagine, can I - the usual is something like 'Doubled Over In Dublin, go back to the pub, Guinness, priests, tedious stereotypes ad nauseam....'"
The fact that MAII is so predictable is one reason, as I previously pointed out, that I generally skim through or completely ignore his offerings.
I suppose, since he's reverting to national stereotypes, I could do the same, and revert to the old one of Americans being loud, crass, insensitive, obnoxious braggarts. But I won't because [a] I don't want to descend to his level and [b] I'm sure it's untrue of most Americans. Except the macho ones who think they're Roman emperors...
Objective readers will draw their own conclusions as to, out of MAII and I, which of us is, as it were, a 'space cadet'.
[It does occur that it's just possible that he read my #106 and seriously thought that I was endorsing this stuff. I called it 'wonderful' merely because it illustrates what MK considers a reliable source of information. I thought that would be clear to any intelligent person. And I still do.]
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Lucy opined:
I am glad the Olympics committee gave him [the killed luger] recognition throughout the ceremony.
It is brave and courageous of the Georgian team to stay and represent.
Georgians usually don't roll over and play dead.
Neither, incidentally, do other peoples of Caucasus.
Which foreign invaders of the region discover much to their chagrin.
Again, and again, and...
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50. At 03:30am on 13 Feb 2010, Andy Post wrote:
Ref. 23, colonelartist:
"Was it my queen's english that made you think I was brit-ish?"
Maybe. You do have a certain facility with the language. Have you read any Faulkner? He does a stream of consciousness writing.
Colonel's posts remind me of a narrator of "As I Lay Dying".
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"Annan is a war criminal for being the leader of the U.N and doing nothing about the rape of woman and children in Darfur by U.N end workers."
I don't know about 'war criminal'
But criminal neglect term could, arguably, be used in view of
"Food for Oil" scandal, and Mr. Annan's sonny's involvement.
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Re #103 AndreaNY
Since my original reply somehow flew away...
Another case in point. [besides a shift in Saudi Arabia's policy]
Look how Jordan's policy has changed after radical Palestinians attempted to overthrow the Hashemite monarchy.
Nope, Beduinis didn't like it one single bit. And took a strong action.
Now, about Egypt building this huge barrier underground...
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122. KScurmudgeon:
Well, MK and MA between them spend their lives providing very good reasons why anyon elsewhere in the world should doubt both Americans' sanity, rationality and tolerance for anyone else.
Now:
To the moderators. The House Rules are clear enough; Offensive language and personalised abuse to other BBC members is not permitted; nor is 'disruptive' behaviour. i.e. constant posts that do not relate to the topic, and ones that are intended for no other purpose but to belittle and sneer at others. I've complained about this often enough, and yet nothing is done. It is about time MAII and MK were stopped.
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Re #103 AndreaNY has observed:
When a government is threatened, it deals with its extremists. When citizens are murdered, they turn on extremists. When it was just us as the targets, eh, no biggie.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233607
Look no further than to Saudi Arabia which used be a staunch supporter and promoter of the militant Wahhabis.
It's somehow changed after al-Qaida in ME types attempted to topple the House of Saudis and kill some of its prominent members.
[cf. Saudi military actions against terrorists in Yemen.]
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In the event that the moderators are unable to count beyond the fingers of one hand, 29 posts by just three contributors have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic, only the obsessions those three indulge in on every thread.
I do not include responses that they generate in self-defense, which makes up altogether more than half the posts here. This is absolutely bloody pointless.
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ref #130
To the moderators. The House Rules are clear enough; Offensive language and personalised abuse to other BBC members is not permitted; nor is 'disruptive' behaviour. i.e. constant posts that do not relate to the topic, and ones that are intended for no other purpose but to belittle and sneer at others. I've complained about this often enough, and yet nothing is done. It is about time MAII and MK were stopped.
_________________
You have done your fair share. how many times have I been refered to as Gehrkin on this board?
The moderators have removed my post for what I feel are trivial reasons. I have #3 removed for comparing Clinton's after Presidency conduct with Carters. Nothing untrue on the post.
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71. colonelartist wrote:
"You dont even have any idea how many people have been displaced just because the western and northern alliance want to get rid of the people who actually come from there..Roughly 15 yrs ago, taliban had to fight these northern alliance in those areas becausse of their crimes against the civilians"
What world are you living in? I don't doubt that some warlords in Afghanistan hostile to the Taliban committed crimes against the people of Afghanistan. No less than those committed by the Taliban against those same people. Many of whom fled the failed state to the West and your own Pakistan due to insecurities at home. Your comment shows you as, at best, a Taliban apologist.
Your memory is probably somewhat faulty but US hostility to the Taliban stems from the latters provision of a safe haven to Al Qaeda.
Further, the Northern Alliance are actually from Afghanistan. It is many of the Taliban fighters who are coming across the border from Pakistan. The NA folks of course are from a different ethnic background than southern Afghans and western Pakistanis. That still makes them perfectly within their rights to fight for the future direction THEIR country takes. Or in your world is it only permissable for those wanting to return to a 14th Century lifestyle to pursue their aims?
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# 133 MagicKirin wrote: [to Squirrelist]
"You have done your fair share. how many times have I been refered [sic] to as Gehrkin [sic] on this board?"
By Squirrelist? Never, that I know of.
By easytarget? Never, that I know of.
Easytarget has certainly referred to you as gherkin.
Poor, poor MK. He can and does hurl around accusations of terrorism, treason, cowardice and anti-Semitism from the safety of his alias against both internationally respected Nobel Prize winners and posters on this blog.
But let one person call him after "a fruit similar in form and nutritional value to a cucumber".......
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# 123 MagicKirin wrote:
"John from Dublin asked for a reason not to trust Wikipedia."
No. He. Didn't.
What I actually said, at #100, can be seen by anyone who can read. It was as follows. After MK announced that Wikipedia was 'not a reliable source', I wrote - "Indeed? That being the case, perhaps you will tell us which fact that I quoted them on is false. If you go to their site, you can look up the references they cite. But first, look up 'ev-id-ence' in that dictionary."
He did not. Surprise surprise.
Since he cannot even reliably report on what is clearly available on this blog, it's pretty clear how much credence may be given to any of his other claims.
"I gave him an article and instead of arguing the facts. He argued who were some of the authors."
He referred to an article from World News Daily. I demonstrated that it was a haunt of extreme rightwing nut jobs, such as Coulter and Limbaugh, and 'Birthers', who announce that Obama's plans for health reform are akin to the Nazis. But let us look at the actual article MK refers to. It reveals that the Wiki profile of Joseph Farah, the man who is behind WND, once said he was gay. For one whole hour! [Presumably someone wanted to annoy him - it seems to have worked.] Then the claim was removed. It is no longer on the profile.
This is apparently not uncommon on Wiki - I believe they have taken steps to restrict people who can amend their articles for this very reason.
And this is what MK calls proof that Wiki is totally unreliable. No doubt on that basis we cannot rely on anything stated by any TV station - including the BBC - or paper or mag - they must all have printed or stated something incorrect at least once.
"So ref #121 Marko I do back up my statements with facts they may not be facts you want to hear."
To Kirin, 'facts' are 'whatever he believes or reads on right wing web sites.
And according to him, we can disregard anything on Wiki, while trusting 'fair and balanced' sites like WND
[On the subject of WND, here’s a little more from something prominently linked to their site – “...........Until we came across a specific plan which has been defined as Project Enoch. Once we understood Project Enoch it became clear how the 2012 end of the world phenomena ties into the agenda of the Illuminati and Freemasons regarding the movement of the world towards what is known as a New World Order and why 2012 is actually significant but not as is presently being conveyed. Our findings were published in a report, 2012 - The Year of Project Enoch?”]
Can't get more fair and balanced than that...
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KSmudge;
"Enough - I am already out of character.
KScurmudgeon"
You are also out of your depth. Live and let live is not one of the American core values that defines us. It did not define us during the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, World War I, World War II, The Cold War, Kosovo, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan. The liberty Americans cherish they know is only won and kept when they are prepared to fight and die for it. To kill to defend it. European liberty such as it is was bought and paid for in part with American blood and treasure. If Americans had as their core value the live and let live attitude, Europe would be slave to Nazis or Soviet Communists.
-Marko;
Why don't you ask your question a different way?
1. Who believes in the American perspective
2. Who belives in the European fantasies and lies?
Yes most of the answers of most people posting here would be 2. But then they are mostly Europeans with a sprinkling of deluded left wing Americans who need protecting from themselves by the rest of us. If they ever learned what the world and history are truly about, they deny it. In the end, there is no saving Europe anyway. It is and always has been its own worst enemy.
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ref #136
ann Coulter is a best selling author with a lot more credbility than Jimmy Wales and Norm chomsky.
I don't agree with many of her politivcal view but unlike Wikipedia she backs them up from fact.
Just google or bing Wikipedia can't be trusted and find other links.
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# 124 MagicKirin
"Big difference Bill Clinton has served as special envoy or ambassador to American Presidents one Republican and 1 Democratic. For the most part he has not undermined a sucessor [sic] . Something almost all former Presidents have respected. And for all my justified criticsm of Obama in 3 or7 [sic] year [sic] he will as well.
Jimmy Carter has undermined Presidents by giving aid and support to enemies of this county: like Hamas and other terrorist groups. validating the fradulent [sic] election result in Venezuela and supporting other human rights violators."
Well, one of MK's great heroes, GWB, has kept relatively quiet.
However - and strangely MK never mentions this - but then he's never been one to let the facts interfere with his biases - D Cheney, AKA 'Bush's Brain', another of MK's great heroes, the "wise" man who surveyed all the Veep Candidates in 2000, and decided that the best one was - D Cheney - well he's churned out a continuous stream of bile and bitterness against President Obama. Including, as I recall, stating that if any further terrorist attack took place against the US, it would be Obama's fault.
In fact he's been so right wing, bitter and vitriolic, you'd swear he thought he was a Roman emperor...
Anyway, presumably when JC left office at the age of 56, he was supposed to take a vow of silence and inactivity, according to MK. Instead he has worked tirelessly for humanitarian causes. And he has dared to criticise Israel, which for neocons like MK is the ultimate crime.
As for JC supporting human rights violators - Bush? Cheney? Israel? I don't think so.
As for venezuela, apparently [according to Wiki anyway] some accept the election results there, some dispute them. however, whilst numerous people who have actually been there have posted insightfully here, MK just churns out his old prejudices, without proof or evidence.
How long, O Lord, how long...
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ref #139
Big difference Bill Clinton has served as special envoy or ambassador to American Presidents one Republican and 1 Democratic. For the most part he has not undermined a sucessor [sic] . Something almost all former Presidents have respected. And for all my justified criticsm of Obama in 3 or7 [sic] year [sic] he will as well.
Jimmy Carter has undermined Presidents by giving aid and support to enemies of this county: like Hamas and other terrorist groups. validating the fradulent [sic] election result in Venezuela and supporting other human rights violators."
Well, one of MK's great heroes, GWB, has kept relatively quiet.
(Well for the umpteenth time GWB is not one of my heros. I have just stated that he is far wiser and has so far been a far great President than Obama)
However - and strangely MK never mentions this - but then he's never been one to let the facts interfere with his biases - D Cheney, AKA 'Bush's Brain', another of MK's great heroes, the "wise" man who surveyed all the Veep Candidates in 2000, and decided that the best one was - D Cheney - well he's churned out a continuous stream of bile and bitterness against President Obama. Including, as I recall, stating that if any further terrorist attack took place against the US, it would be Obama's fault.
(Techincality Cheney was a VP, and Al Gore (the eviro faud) was not quiet either)
In fact he's been so right wing, bitter and vitriolic, you'd swear he thought he was a Roman emperor...
Anyway, presumably when JC left office at the age of 56, he was supposed to take a vow of silence and inactivity, according to MK. Instead he has worked tirelessly for humanitarian causes. And he has dared to criticise Israel, which for neocons like MK is the ultimate crime.
As for JC supporting human rights violators - Bush? Cheney? Israel? I don't think so.
(Castro and Chavez are two of Jimmy's pals, yes Carter can do humanatarian causes. In fact if he stuck to house building his only contribution to the public since leaving the navy he would not be so despised by a majority of Americans)
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# 140 MK
"(Castro and Chavez are two of Jimmy's pals, yes Carter can do humanatarian [sic] causes. In fact if he stuck to house building his only contribution to the public since leaving the navy he would not be so despised by a majority of Americans)"
Fron CNN, Jan 09 - "Sixty percent of Americans questioned in a CNN-Opinion Research Corp. survey released Wednesday morning say they approve of how George H.W. Bush handled his job as president, and 64 percent give a thumbs up to former President Carter."
Link here - http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/01/07/polls.former.presidents/index.html#cnnSTCText
For the umpteenth time - does your mendacity know no bounds? have you no shame, Sir?
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# 138 MagicKirin
"ann [sic] Coulter is a best selling author with a lot more credbility [sic] than Jimmy Wales and Norm [sic] chomsky [sic]./I don't agree with many of her politivcal [sic] view [sic] but unlike Wikipedia she backs them up from fact./Just google or bing Wikipedia can't be trusted and find other links."
"ann Coulter is a best selling author "
So were Mao Tse-tung, K Marx and A Hitler. Your point?
"with a lot more credbility [sic] than Jimmy Wales and Norm [sic] chomsky [sic]"
As ever, MK still thinks that words mean what he wants them to, no more, no less. He makes these sweeping statements without fact or evidence and thinks he has proved something.
What on earth has Noam Chomsky to do with anything?
As for AC's "credibility", let us look at some of her gems
"Coulter has been described by The Observer as "the Republican Michael Moore" and "Rush Limbaugh in a miniskirt.""
Her books include "If Democrats Had Any Brains, They'd Be Republicans"
She was fired by National Review Online, who said "we ended the relationship because she behaved with a total lack of professionalism, friendship, and loyalty [concerning the editing disagreement]."
"In August 2005, the Arizona Daily Star dropped Coulter's syndicated column citing reader complaints that "Many readers find her shrill, bombastic and mean-spirited. And those are the words used by readers who identified themselves as conservatives."
"Coulter characterized evolution as "bogus science""
"In October 2007, while being interviewed by Donny Deutsch on the CNBC show The Big Idea, Coulter stated that Christians consider themselves "perfected Jews" and that it would be better if everyone was a Christian"
She wrote - "It would be a much better country if women did not vote. That is simply a fact. In fact, in every presidential election since 1950—except Goldwater in '64—the Republican would have won, if only the men had voted"
Of the 9/11 hijackers - "We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."
"In an April 2, 2008 column, she characterized Barack Obama's book Dreams From My Father as a "Dimestore Mein Kampf.""
But best of all - in 08, she backed - Romney, MK's other great hero. Which explains a lot.
So, gentle readers, MK and AC. “Credible”? Or perhaps “incredible”, in the literal sense of the word. You decide.
"I don't agree with many of her politivcal [sic] view [sic] but unlike Wikipedia she backs them up from fact"
More mendacity. Wiki's articles are referenced. The one on AC has 103 numbered, named and linked references - to give just one example.
"Just google or bing Wikipedia can't be trusted and find other links."
[a] I generally do Google or Bing. And wiki is often one of their top links.
[b] In any event, I will take no orders from anyone who shows themself to play fast and loose with the facts.
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I do believe that you are only truly an American citizen if you love America with all your heart. Maybe an American citizen may disagree at times with how the government is running things, but an American citizen should always love their country, through thick and thin.
That is why I do not think people like that Hassan that turned on us are truly Americans. He committed treason and should be given the death penalty for such an offense. Thank God for the cops that shot him down and stopped the situation from getting worse.
The people who have legally immigrated here, sworn their love and faith to the USA, are integrating into American society by learning English and following our laws are acceptable Americans. Those who do not love this country should not come here. We deserve better than that.
Hopefully Europeans and others realize that Americans are not all like MAII, as there are many of us who think very highly of the numerous and unique European countries. Personally, I respect all countries, except the ones that sponsor terrorism. I am optimistic that things can change for the better for everyone. Anyway, we all should just take it easy. :)
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John, please don't tell me you believe in the polls. Polls lie. They are only asking a small section of people, not a wide swath of the USA. I do not believe that polls are accurate, they can easily be bumped up or down, as needed, by whatever network is suggesting it. Polls are bunk.
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Make it another Double in Dublin...and this time don't be stingy with the Bushmills;
"Fron CNN, Jan 09 - "Sixty percent of Americans questioned in a CNN-Opinion Research Corp. survey released Wednesday morning say they approve of how George H.W. Bush handled his job as president, and 64 percent give a thumbs up to former President Carter."
That may be what their sample says now but in the poll that counted, Jimmy Who lost badly to President Reagan when he ran for re-election in 1980. The only reason Carter beat Ford in 1976 was that half of America was angry at Ford for pardoning Nixon. I was one of those but in retrospect and with time to reflect, President Ford did the right thing. Ford's blunder in the debates about Poland being a free country didn't help either.
I think if the Democrat's best kept secret, Jimmy's brother Billy Carter had been seen by the public before the election, the outcome would have been a lot tighter :-)
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Whether Chavez stole the election the first time or whether he actually won it fairly doesn't really matter. As with the election of Adolf Hitler, it will prove one man, one vote, one time. Chavez is creating a communist dictatorship with absolute control over everything in Venezuela including the media. By nationalizing the oil industry, a blunder that has backfired on Venezuela at least once before, he has guaranteed that his nation will go bankrupt despite now having what is believed to be the largest proven oil reserves in the world, twice as much as Saudi Arabia. His insistance on keeping all the profits and not allowing or guaranteeing that foreign investors will get what they feel is a reasonable return on any capital they risk there assures that Venezuela will have neither the technical nor managerial expertise to run that industry profitably. It will deteriorate and be run by communist party cadres, the political allies of Chavez. The problems are already manifesting themselves in severe shortages of electrical power, water, and other things you'd expect would never happen in a country endowed with so much oil. But without outside help it's worthless to them. If anyone had any doubts, Chavez already dispelled any hope for better relations with the US under President Obama. His support for the narco terrorists in Columbia and his purchase of billions of dollars of arms from Russia virtually guarantees that there will continue to be conflict between Venezuela and the US. It is very bad news for the Venezuelan people. How long before he blames all of his own shortcomings and failings on America the way Castro did for 50 years? This time unlike the case for Cuba there will be no USSR to back it up. Maybe he can cut a deal with China.
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I would address this to Mark Mardell. A belated "Welcome to the States" to you.
As you can see by the list of comments above, the network news in the "US" get it honestly, We the People can use a string that comments on something as simple as coverage of a medical procedure and use it to get into some of the most ridiculous and demeaning firefights to peddle our own agendas.
I, like a number of others, primarily use the BBC and PBS for news sources, as well as the Federal Register, and i have a copy of the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights hanging on the wall over my desk. When I hear / see political actions, I try to find basis for them in these documents. Sadly this is usually an exercise in futility.
I seldom read the comments folks post here. I don't much care for "hate" and "you lie" and other terms of deprecation.
Again, welcome Mr Mardell.
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Dear Mr. Mardell - I am grateful for the technology that gives us wall to wall real time news at our fingertips (so long as the 'lectric stays on). I wonder if the question isn't really about ethics tho'. Not many journalists stick to the facts anymore, and many seem to pronounce their 'opinions' as news. The competition for 'scoops' has always been an ethical challenge (how long does a 'scoop' last now anyway, 3 minutes and a link?). Just by selecting what to cover, and what not, a journalist can influence public opinion.
I disagree with Kurt Vonnegut, who in 2004 wrote:
"Our daily sources of news, papers and TV, are now so craven, so unvigilant on behalf of the American people, so uninformative, that only in books can we find out what is really going on. I will cite an example: House of Bush, House of Saud by Craig Unger, published near the start of this humiliating, shameful blood-soaked year." http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/mike-in-the-news/i-love-you-madame-librarian-by-kurt-vonnegut
I think the internet, if it remains free, open and accessible, could evolve human communications toward honesty and almost instantaneous shared knowledge of meaningful facts or events...but on the other hand, if not free, open and accessible, then welcome Big Brother and totalitarianism.
Do we need competition to keep us honest? Will we have it with the print media losing revenue? Is LucyIllinois correct in proposing that anyone who challenges "us" or "America" or wants to expand or modify our culture be ostracized and deported (does Lucy also rabidly support 'free markets' but only with respect to money, not thoughts)?
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143, LucyIllinois
So you believe that even though I was born in the U.S., have lived here most of my life, and hold only a U.S. passport, I am not "truly" an American citizen because I don't love my country "with all my heart"? Or at all, actually.
Quite honestly, I don't understand the concept of love for a geopolitical entity.
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# 149 baroness
"Quite honestly, I don't understand the concept of love for a geopolitical entity."
It's funny because it's true
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I don't much like nationalism, but I like a lot about America..and Canada (the "what" in "What's new")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glny4jSciVI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQbQGn_rqTw
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Lucy,Lucy,Lucy,Lucy;
Ya know what I thin? :-)
"Hopefully Europeans and others realize that Americans are not all like MAII, as there are many of us who think very highly of the numerous and unique European countries."
Yeah, the ones who have never lived in one, been in one for more than a short visit at a tourist or a brief meeting, don't know much about them, are not critical or judgemental about anything. Kumbaya! Kumbaya! Those are the same people who liked Stalin, would have had us play dead to aggression by the USSR, Iraq, al Qaeda. Despite the liberal educatoin system which is trying to emasculate an entire generation of Americans there are still some of us left alive with real rich red American blood in our veins who know what the world is and are not afraid to deal with it or call it for what it is. What do you think the red stripes in the American flag symbolizes, Valentine's Day?
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137. At 1:22pm on 14 Feb 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
KSmudge;
You are also out of your depth. Live and let live is not one of the American core values that defines us. It did not define us during the Revolutionary War, the Civil War, World War I, World War II, The Cold War, Kosovo, Grenada, Iraq, Afghanistan. "
____________________________________
I'm afraid you mistook my reference. You accused someone of not being American in attitude. 'Live and let live' is how we generally relate to each other, our fellow Americans, not to our enemies in war. This was the whole business of the constitution 'to form am ore perfect union', and to regularize the relations between citizens and between states.
Your were being 'unAmerican' to your fellow American(s) by requiring them to see things as you saw them. Or is every person who disagrees an enemy?
point of clarification from KScurmudgeon
(and I have told you 'smudge' is no insult to me)
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#152 - I don't know many people, including myself and my sons, who would not stand up and fight to DEFEND Americans against aggression, or to PROTECT innocents from abuse ... but we would also fight to unseat an abusive leader or for example a US president who started a bloody war, killing children, over OIL for example.
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144. At 3:53pm on 14 Feb 2010, LucyIllinois wrote:
"John, please don't tell me you believe in the polls. Polls lie. They are only asking a small section of people, not a wide swath of the USA. I do not believe that polls are accurate, they can easily be bumped up or down, as needed, by whatever network is suggesting it. Polls are bunk."
"John, please don't tell me you believe in the polls." Yes I do
"Polls are bunk." No they're not
I believe in them because I am a card carrying member of the Reality Community.
Of course they're not perfect. Of course they can be wrong. Indeed almost by definition some must be wrong, as they don't always agree. They can be wrong because they ask the wrong questions and/or ask them of the wrong people, whether deliberately or otherwise.
But having said that, you only need a relatively basic knowledge of statistics, which is what I have, to understand that if they are done well they can be accurate. And also that you do not need a particularly large sample to get an accurate picture, if it is chosen properly.
Have a look at this - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nationwide_opinion_polling_for_the_United_States_presidential_election,_2008. Most of the polls near the election were within the usual 3-4% margin of error. [And if the polls were wrong, media organisations and politicians wouldn't spend all that money on them.]
Granted the link is to Wikipedia, but remember, neither MK nor WorldNetDaily trust Wikipedia, which is about the best recommendation you can get...
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129, 131. powermeerkat:
(Re: my #103)
Yes. Many positive changes. Just don't connect them in any way to President Susquehanna Hat Company. :-))
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123. MagicKirin:
ref #105
"John from Dublin asked for a reason not to trust Wikipedia. "
*********************
In my area, students are not permitted to use it as a source.
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What world are you living in? I don't doubt that some warlords in Afghanistan hostile to the Taliban committed crimes against the people of Afghanistan. No less than those committed by the Taliban against those same people. Many of whom fled the failed state to the West and your own Pakistan due to insecurities at home. Your comment shows you as, at best, a Taliban apologist.
Your memory is probably somewhat faulty but US hostility to the Taliban stems from the latters provision of a safe haven to Al Qaeda.
Further, the Northern Alliance are actually from Afghanistan. It is many of the Taliban fighters who are coming across the border from Pakistan. The NA folks of course are from a different ethnic background than southern Afghans and western Pakistanis. That still makes them perfectly within their rights to fight for the future direction THEIR country takes. Or in your world is it only permissable for those wanting to return to a 14th Century lifestyle to pursue their aims?
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The reason for the western alliance of northern alliance not to be able to give security to afghanistanis, which taliban could, is that the western alliance is relying on the northern alliance..The last time northern alliance ruled afghanistan russian withdrawl, they spent all the time bombing each other and commiting crimes against the locals..The reason why taliban allowed ben laden to come to afghanistan was that he helped them against ussr, and that their other helper, usa, decided to exclude them after the failed pipe line project..If usa had not been greedy and negotiated with the taliban instead of doing what israel does to palestinians, the taliban who were invited to texas had signed the pipe line deal..Between the taliban and northern alliance, I would choose the lesser of the two evil, the taliban..you can support the northern alliance all you want..and so can your country, Between the two regimes , taliban and northern alliance, taliban killed fewer people, flogged fewer, sent fewer to jails and gave security to people to move. Between taliban and usa, the taliban hav never theartened any country let alone attack, they have neither used agent orange, nor atom bom, neither did they ever tell a certain part of their population to sit on the back of the bus because their color skin didnt match the people who sat on the front..And ofcourse, they are no where near the record of people killed by america..
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Here's my reason for not trusting Wikipedia. Some months ago, someone in this forum made an assertion on the United States as a "corporation," referring to some paragraph of US Code, but without linking to it. (Fuzzy thinkers never like to use authoritative sources.) I found the section anyway, and recognized that the poster had misinterpreted a rather elementary provision of US law. There was nothing at all difficult about it.
More recently, I was looking in Wikipedia for some information relating to corporations, and I ran across this same (incorrect) assertion! So the original poster not only did not link to the US Code, he didn't bother to attribute Wikipedia as his source.
This error was so basic I would classify it as a "howler." Something that would never occur in a real encyclopedia with real editors.
I do look in Wikipedia myself now and then, as a starting point, but I would never take anything from it as an authoritative source.
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if you weren't such a curious pickle I'd give up calling you gherkin.
gherkin! when were you forced off the blog.
when were you banned.
when have I called for the murder of anyone.
if you cannot understand the basis of me not having much sympathy with you then that is your problem.
try not mentioning that carter is a criminal or whatever this weeks accusation is.
try answering a question.when asked.
that you come and think you are some sort of angle because you have yet to be forced to change name. and at time hide your own identity because of being banned.
this has become more interesting to me than the subject matter. I admit it.
I find it very very strange(to say the least) that you two in particular get no hassle. you have had posts removed. so what? so have I but when you type a post in and find that it is accepted but doesn't get to the board then that is annoying.
when you get e mails threatenng to contact your employer that is not amusing.
Have you received such threats from people employed by the British license fee payers?
I call you a gherkin you call nelson mandella and tutu racists.
I call you a racists when you have shown an abundance of racist and religiously bigotted vierws. and you call carter a terrorist supporter.
you tried to claim he has done no good for anyone and has not helped in humanitarian causes. yet he clearly is and you clearly LIE to demean him.
that my enemy is slander, legally speaking in the UK.
But I get banned and you stay.
It seems for the time being there has been some arrangement made to let me be.
but if this is then justified by allowing the rubbish and lies here there is something wrong with the BBC.
and I like the BBC so I will do my best to make sure that this issue does not drop off when banned next time. until there has been a removal and U boating of you and MA.
simple enough.
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116"I do not believe you are American by any standard."
I do not believe you are american or of jewish heritage as you have claimed. I believe you do your best to make both look bad.
because you are neither.
what part of the american dram is a dream and will enjoy the land (not created by americans if you did not know that) as I like.
Do you know how to express a cat?
do you think the quarantine (ps ever heard of pet passports) places are good at expressing a cats bladder and bowels?
I can tell you that many trained vets can't do it.
just to point out that you cannot believe a lot because you do not know very much.
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"BTW, as a gradute engineer, as part of my training on my first job I was taught every aspect of steelmaking by top management and plant management of the second largest steel company in the US at the plant in their home city Bethlehem Pennsylvania and at what was at the time the largest steel plant in the world.in Sparrows Point Maryland. My knowledge of steelmaking from iron ore, limestone, and coal to finished products going out the door both theoretically and practically dwarfs your knowledge of metalworking."
lol
MA you wouldn't know a cheesefuller from a stilton.
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I didn't mention the spouse because I didn't. I have filled you with info and you still hide .
You make your assumptions and as I pointed out in the last comment are as ignorant as you think smart.
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Squirrelist I hope I am not one of the three you mention. I would gladly give up the bull if my names were returned to previous posts instead of being U boated. and would be happier if those those two would be told to bugger off so we can discuss the events.
but as this seems to be reaching a head I will continue. again. and if it is me that is not h ere tomorrow then I think all can judge for themselves the validity of holding the BBC up as fair. (we know foxes aren't)
142 JfD
" Noam Chomsky" what did he do?
he is as gherkin calls them a self hating jew.
149 Here I will have to agree with the baroness.
"143. At 3:49pm on 14 Feb 2010, LucyIllinois wrote:
I do believe that you are only truly an American citizen if you love America with all your heart. Maybe an American citizen may disagree at times with how the government is running things, but an American citizen should always love their country, through thick and thin."
now does that mean scaring the people with lies and crippling the economy and respect the nation had?
because that is not my doing. that is the doing of those that would act as if there is no problem. it is the same as spoiling a child.. if you have thought I am not reasonable on america , tough love.
152
"What do you think the red stripes in the American flag symbolizes, Valentine's Day?
derides every point of view gherkin ever had."
I thought it was for the core of communism that is the heart of a nation that "believes" all men are created equal.
but you see blood.
Rorschach
(no I thought they had no imagination when they came up with a flag that had the same colours as France and Britain.)
On the wiki debate. funny how you guys use it one day and not another.
sure it is flawed. but not as flawed as the purely political sites that you often link to.
153 and that is why I have been so rude for so long. because from the start here I have been told I am not american. (and I wish often I was not).
I don't really mind being told I am not american, but I am. so I assume they mean the only people who are americans are racist thick idiots who have been brainwashed (sorry why not call them names I tired that it don't work)
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#116.MarcusAureliusII: "As a cat's life expectancy is usually not much more than 15 years, at some point that will not be a viable excuse unless you deliberately attach yourself to another cat."
Obviously you are not a cat person; cats attach themselves to people, not vice versa!
With all of your posts extolling the virtues of America, I do not understand why you are so fierecely defensive about it. Why are you so insecure about yourself and Americanism? You rarely seem to have a good word for anything beyond your sphere of personal experience and denigrate those who have different abilities. Our resident blacksmith has artistry at his fingertips, and yet you cannot bring yourself to acknowledge it. There's more to metalworking than knowing the chemistry of stainless steel - an English development, incidentally.
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jf,et,hl, or whatever your aka is now, you seem particularly vexed today, even more than usual. Vexed, yes bloody vexed I'd say :-) I neither know nor care anything about feline excretia processes either natural or as applied to veternary medicine. I have no idea what this has to do with anything except the reason for your claimed unwillingness to go back to England. And that is fine with me. You never claimed you were here illegally and I never suggested you are. For all I know you are visiting and living here on a perfectly legal extended visa. Lots of aliens are legally resident in the US, possibly including ETs.
I never said or claimed what my religion or that of my ancestors was. All I said was that they came from certain countries in central and eastern europe. It hardly matters, I have no religious beliefs or formal affiliations if you must know.
We never did find out why you were banned. Many of us have had postings that were either never published on BBC blogs because they broke the rules or were published and then removed because it was later decided they broke the rules many times. Even the moderators themselves may not always agree on interpreting the rules. We have no way of knowing what it took for you to get the attention of the moderators so strongly that they felt your privilege to post here should be revoked permanently. You seem to resent that the rest of us haven't. It appears to be a very rare occurrance so it must have been something remarkably extreme.
I've pointed out to you that there are not only limits to freedom of speech on blog sites including BBC's but in most societies including the US itself. The penalty for breaching those limits on a blog site may be loss of freedom to post. Breeching the rules of the society you live in may be loss of your freedom to be at large. Not knowing the rules won't save you.
BTW, I can identify Stilton cheese from a consderable distance. It is the one whose pungency reminds me most of sweat socks in a gym locker after a long athletic match. Bloody pungent it is, about like many French cheeses. Bloody pungent. Goes well with Port so they say. I've got some very fine Port, I'll have to try it. I don't know much about old vintage Port Wine except that it is fortified. Is Port and Stiltion much of a tradition in Oregon?
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Breaking news
I'd also ask why aquarizonagal was banned and ghekin stays?
anyone care to comment?
go back check her out. never a rude ord. a kind soul and a caring american. but we get MA and the gherkin.
Sckurm I know you will find that strange.
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The media today is far from objective, real journalism? Just doesn't sell I guess anymore. Just entertainment news like CNN, MSNBC and more beyond naming. While soldiers die from our respected countries, and no more thought is given other than a statistic. Sad commentary of our times. Kind of like the Americanization of Emily, in reverse. What happened......
"i'm sick and tired of hearing
things
from uptight-short sighted-
narrow minded hypocritics
all i want is the truth
just give me some truth
i've had enough of reading
things
by nuerotic-pyschotic-
pig headed politicians
all i want is the truth
just give me some truth"
John Lennon
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"There's more to metalworking than knowing the chemistry of stainless steel - an English development, incidentally." David Cunard wrote:
I have to agree the stainless on my Norton Commando is fantastic, not to mention the Aluminum cases (American spelling). But my favorite t-shirt is "The English drink warm beer, because Luca's built the refrigerators."
author unknown
But I still love my Nortons, Triumph, and BSA's. Not all running at once.. I still appreciate them even for their faults. My Interstate is my favorite.
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ref #167
Since you are aquarizonagirl do we to go any further?
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Ask not others give you the truth (like john lennon) Ask yourself how you can get the truth (and trust me, singing song wont get you near the truth, if lucky as john lennon, it will get you money and fame). The truth is liberals can be wealthy and wealthy cannot be liberal. Your liberal leaders as are as wealthier as the conservatives..the liberals wont admitt that they are not for wars, and distance from wars, but they will fight the wars, sending the private templars Xe and northern alliances to do the fighting for them...When the islamists or the taliban see such templars among their midst fighting in your names, then they have to fight this war in the name of their religon as well..You complain about burka being forced on women by the islamists, pay attention to the burka on your eyes which doesnt let you see the truth...Take this off..and you will see the truth standing right infront of your eyes.
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if you marcus's have an issue with me having so many aliases to be able to blog then why do you not defend my right to exist without the persecution I have had that you have not?
"I neither know nor care anything about feline excretia processes "
"I have no idea what this has to do with anything except the reason for your claimed unwillingness to go back to England. " but you asked.I answered
do not ask again why I am still here and expect that you will look honest. I have answered that question enough.you wish to hide from it.I have already answered that and today as per norm you ask the same.
Vexed I am not. for the first time in a couple of years we are thrashing out the issue as to the moderation processes strange angle.or at least exposing the raw underbelly of this flea ridden blog.
165 DC Thank you.
and glad to see you pointed out to MA that the British did literally invent the ways of smelting that MA applied.
(well lets face it as a graduate just out of collage he probably didn't do all that much.);)
as to the cats life expectancy.
if I were a lazy man I would wait till then then move to the UK. but I am not.
so I have invested in equipment to work with here. blacksmithing takes some heavy equipment.
and it takes time to build a clientele. but MA has never worked for himself maybe. if he had he would know that there is little point in moving every few years unless you are so bad you have to.
I am not;)
I am investing in the USA's future as I invest in mine.
after all I bring money in from Belgium from an international steel organisation. so I am helping to balance the trade deficit. what has he done to stop america going bankrupt?
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170 I am not aqua.
I unlike you would admit to it.
And I would feel no shame if I were such a good person. I'm not.
she was posting to say her child has insurance and has had to take her grandchild to hospital in another state because the local hospital didn't do the job and she is 50 000 dollars in the hole after the insurance.
I do not have a daughter so It could not be me.
I think she would like to tell you that your words of deceit cause others to suffer.
I will have to wait till I hear from her what she thinks. and this blog will not allow it and yet still you are here.
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easytarget and the rest , how will your lives change if you log on to blog tomorrow and find out that the person you dont want on this blog isnt there anymore? On some pathetic level, you all resemble bush, who waged war in afghanistan with his slogan of "we dont talk to taliban" or we dont negotiate with terrorists".. if tomorrow this person is gone, you will find someother instead..if the person says pathetic things to support occupation, its because its these things that are being used to support terrorism, if he talks against obama, its because people who are against obama are saying these things...As far as obama is concerned, he has proved that he has fallen flat on his face with a big splash..Learn from the lesson and never vote for a person whose words are too good to be true, when things are too good to be true, they are not true..Simple rule of the life, which the americans should have used before buying all those houses, before going to war and before everything they do.
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170. At 9:08pm on 14 Feb 2010, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #167
Since you are aquarizonagirl do we to go any further?
__________
There are times when you write things that as so exasperating.
You have been posting on this blog for almost the same length of time as I have. In that time Jack=Happy=GeneralPen=EasyTarget=etc., has made thousands of postings. Aqua made perhaps several hundred.
They have completely different writing styles. Their writing styles are distinct. They have very different cultural backgrounds, and significantly different beliefs. They are two completely different people, you can tell that, unmistakeably, from their writing. No, neither one of them is faking a second persona.
Honest to Pete. Either you aren't paying attention, or your reading comprehension leaves much to be desired.
Jack: How do you know Aqua was banned? I thought she had just ceased posting?
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153 and that is why I have been so rude for so long. because from the start here I have been told I am not american. (and I wish often I was not).
I don't really mind being told I am not american, but I am. so I assume they mean the only people who are americans are racist thick idiots who have been brainwashed (sorry why not call them names I tired that it don't work)
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You should have asked me, and I would have told you that you are an american...An american is an american is an american..
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ET #163;
"I didn't mention the spouse because I didn't."
When you reach a fork in the road...take it. Sorry ET, we already have one Yogi Berra, the idea's already been taken and I'll bet you swing like a rusty gate batting lefty or righty.
"if you marcus's have an issue with me having so many aliases to be able to blog..."
Of course I can't speak for anyone but myself but I have no problem with it. Evidently the moderators don't either or your posts wouldn't be appearing. It's just that I can't keep track of all those aliases. If they are really all yours, it must be quite a trick constantly getting back in after they find you out. Just like being one step ahead of the law :-) Speaking of aquazonagal, I wonder whatever became of princessonthepea who said she was from Teheran. I hope she took my advice and kept her mouth shut about politics. As I said about freedom of speech, each society like each blog site has its own rules and violating Iran's can be a matter of life and death if you are Iranian. Allmymarbles who was her friend and said she lives in Manhattan seems to have lost touch too. Wonder if she went out to rescue her. Was one or both of them you jf? Alter egos? Split personalities?
So Canard has reappeared just to snipe. Surf's up Canard. California's beaches beckon. Lots of rays to catch, it's early in the day.
Seems like the loony left is very edgy these days. They've got their Obama, the Democrats control all of Congress, and things aren't working out well at all. After an entire year, they have nothing to show for it and they can't blame anyone this time but each other. Yes, their problem is that there is no one for them to blame. You don't get away with "it was all the result of the policies of the party opposite when they were in power" for ten months around here let alone 10 years the way Tony Blair pulled it off in the UK. If you think the financial world fell off a cliff a year and a half ago, wait until the Democrats fall off the top of Mount Everest in November. That's what happens when you put yourself on a pedistal that's too high, you fall farther, faster, and the crash is all the greater. That lesson is also being relearned in Brussels right this very day.
"blacksmithing takes some heavy equipment.
and it takes time to build a clientele."
It's not like you have to carry it in a backpack jf so don't try to pretend. As for clientele, I've already agreed that there is hardly anywhere else on earth you are likely to find much market for the likenesses of frogs banged out of scrap metal to be used as lawn ornaments. Must take a lot of experience to know which size hammer to bang with and where to strike. Do you just anneal or do you quench? Me, I quench especially on hot days when I'm out in the sun.
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176 thank you.
you open mindedness is truly amazing.
keep up the good work.
IF how do I know?
I am in communication with Aqua.she always seemed like a nice person.She is very different from me.
but now you will not hear her again. I can also tell you that 80% or wandering angus was also banned.
these people get banned not for resembling me (as kiki dread did) but because they agree.
or something.
I know not why aqua is having problems. but I do know that 80% was removed the same day as I when we took on Zenads a while back.
Of course me saying "nonads" was too offensive compared to the racism of those posts.
Gherkin has never paid attention to the answers neither has MA.
well OK ma seems to have filed some.
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MA if indeed princess pea was killed as you have implied many time I think your repeated
"I wonder whatever became of princessonthepea who said she was from Teheran. I hope she took my advice and kept her mouth shut about politics."
is very very offensive.
and your comments on metallurgy are showing you learned little on your tour of the holy land.
allmyMarbels I suspect just had enough of you. she was smart enough to want you gone long ago.
PS unlike you I know who she is and am very impressed with her writings on the middle east.
While we are comparing ,you and TrueToo and zenads and allant2 all seem to have had some of the same issues.Now of course zenads was a bit like rob loop.
Maybe they have been banned. nice of the BBC to admit it if they did.
either way. you persist.strange.
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"It's not like you have to carry it in a backpack jf so don't try to pretend."
last I checked a toyota van though amazing will not cross the ocean.
Or fit all my equipment in .
"Do you just anneal or do you quench?"
just to show people how little you really know you make this comment.
why would I quench to make a steel softer?
what grade of steel are you dealing with here. certainly not a high carbon steel. to quench it would only make it more brittle which is the opposite of annealing.
do you feel like a fool yet?
I doubt it.
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Well, if you spend time in questioning why some are banned and others not, chances are you will be banned again...its just a blog.
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181 and?
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MA if indeed princess pea was killed as you have implied many time I think your repeated
"I wonder whatever became of princessonthepea who said she was from Teheran. I hope she took my advice and kept her mouth shut about politics."
is very very offensive.
and your comments on metallurgy are showing you learned little on your tour of the holy land.
allmyMarbels I suspect just had enough of you. she was smart enough to want you gone long ago.
PSI was impressed with marbles writings in the press that I read, she indeed does know a lot about Iran.more than you, I and most of the bloggers here put together.
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"While we are comparing ,you and TrueToo and zenads and allant2 all seem to have had some of the same issues.Now of course zenads was a bit like rob loop.
Maybe they have been banned. nice of the BBC to admit it if they did.
either way. you persist.strange."
strange as well you can make comments on who I might be but the reverse is not so acceptable.
this and the post above are the post that was removed
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colonel. don't worry we'll work on you later
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and?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Its just a blog and not some land which should be liberated...People tried to work on me, but they failed..I have no idea why because they went on their crussade against me with extreme enthusiasm..If i had shown even one percent of that enthusiasm to ban people, there would ony be me posting over here..No one will tell you except me, that americans are born with this disposition to go lethal the way they do if people dont agree with them..Right now, their leaders have their focus on the invisible threats but once they wake up and pay attention to the plight of their own house, they will see that everything they blamed others to do or not do, exists right in their own country...By then you will be used to sloving the problems the way you use other people's problem, and you can imagine the rest..The shia , sunni or kurd, iraqi, or taliban , northern alliance conflicts will take place in your own country, latinos vs whites vs blacks, vs tribal indians vs bible belt vs non bible belt and so on and so on..The people whom you have given this shia sunni etc etc narratives for yrs will use the same narratives on you, telling you how americans are killing americans, or how latinos kill whites and whites kill black, digging out the history.
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tutu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV2KkbT_qhQ&feature=channel
mandella by F.W. De Klerk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFq3bQ7F-IE
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"No one will tell you except me, that americans are born with this disposition to go lethal the way they do if people dont agree with them"
lol you must not have read many of my posts.
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183 I denied being Marbles and mentioned that she is actually a pretty accomplished writer on the middle east or Iran and really has more understanding than most of the rest of us put together.
apparently that is unacceptable.
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#177. MarcusAureliusII: "So Canard has reappeared just to snipe."
That's because you're such a good target. However, you didn't answer the question: just why are you so defensive about America? It seems to me that you have a permanent inferiority complex, feeling an obligation to live up to and surpass the achievements of other nations when her own are self-evident. It does no good to harp on about how wonderful America is, bigger and better than the world has ever seen; it's like a school yard where some kid says my dad can beat up your dad. What does it achieve? Give credit where it's due.
"Stilton cheese . . . Bloody pungent it is, about like many French cheeses."
Stilton is English; perhaps you were thinking of (remembering?) Roquefort, which is made from ewe's milk, not that of cows.
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To easy; No, I was not including you as one of the three.
It is curious that there are four contributors to this blog whose only two aims in life appear to gang up vindictively against some who object to their constant slanders, defamations and rudeness, isn't it?
To Magick:
No, I do not recall having referred to you as a gherkin. 'Magic giraffe' yes; and of course I refer to MA as The Vampire' because of his bloodthirstiness. So?
Wanna come outside, then?
Otherwise, I do try to be respectful of those who deserve respect. It should be pretty obvious by now those who I hold do not.
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190 I 'rekon' he was just trying to slag off France and the UK again because there is nothing else to say.
I could say american cheeses leave a lot to be desired.
though apparently they do make a rather good white cheddar on the east coast.
one won awards. so not bad.
either way he should try Neals Yard they will supply him with all the cheese he needs to go with his whine.
It is really amusing that he pretends to hate all europe but is made of euro wines and cheese.
if you are what you eat.
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191 squirrelist.
LOL I did not really think you were talking about moi;)
yes it is funny the angle of the dangle for some of these bloggers.
Much vilified as a hater myself I think that as you say "respectful of those who deserve respect" is the way to go. there are bloggers here on the right , republicans that write as if they are genuine. there are others that are so fake it is hard to take them seriously and you have to guess their purpose is to ruin the site.
or to spread hate.
Now I would like to say that MA has spent a lot of time recently in Bloggers threat mode.
keeps telling me that I might get in trouble in the USA for speaking out.
yet for a long time now he has kept going on about how free america is.
Do you think the reason he quit suggesting ways of destroying gaza are because he knows that now it might just be illegal to say some of what he has said, even in the USA.
He keeps suggesting I am saying things that could get me in trouble. yet it is not I that have suggested certain tactics that would be considered terrorist if it were a group not related to a certain government.
the biggest call for arms etc I have made is to say the two or more of them should be "roved" "banned" from the blog. they have said whole nations should be obliterated and then tried to justify it with half truths and lies.
MA reckons I have said some anti Semitic things recently. but he should really look harder.
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Canard;
"That's because you're such a good target. However, you didn't answer the question: just why are you so defensive about America?"
I had heard so much gratuitous America bashing over the years by stupid ignorant Europeans who know nothing about America, nothing about the world, not even much about themselves or their own history, that I decided it was time for someone in America to answer back and answer back hard. And wow how even one single voice that is usually not nearly as strident as those European voices have been and far more often factually correct does get them angry, excited, enraged, and reveals their inner hatred and jealousy knowing all along that they were and remain all wrong. I enjoy telling them that their entire civilization is inferior to the one I was lucky to be born into and spent most of my life in and that their views are based on myths and lies they have been told and continue to expound wanting to believe them so badly. Also that I have not only seen their civilization first hand but lived it and know it fairly intimately. While it has been a while, and while the physical details of it have surely changed in that time, the mentality of the place has not moved one jot. This is the real essence of it which makes it inferior.
Their anger at even one American voice contradicting them also proves another thing I say about them and that is that their minds are basically those of despotic tyrants who will not tolerate real dissent or open discussion, that they do not rationally accept either the past they cannot change or present present as it exists and therefore cannot arrive at any successfull plan for their future, and this also goes to the heart of what makes their civilization so inferior. The European Union and the EU merely being current high visibility examples, it's existance and manner of organization entirely consistent with their past folly, absolutely predictable.
Yes I must say I do enjoy seeing the shoe on the other foot for a change and wow do they ever scream in pain because it fits them so tightly and perfectly. And does Europe ever make a "good target", an "easy target."
:-)
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yet again marcus the fibber with the" I lived there for a few months (oh and they told me I was not doctor material) 30 odd years ago so I'm an expert and those fools that have been to both recently are just fools that know nothing.
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#194. MarcusAureliusII: "I had heard so much gratuitous America bashing over the years by stupid ignorant Europeans who know nothing about America, nothing about the world, not even much about themselves or their own history, that I decided it was time for someone in America to answer back and answer back hard."
You base all of your knowledge of Europe and its inhabitants on barely two years of living in France many years ago. If you spoke there in the manner in which you write here, it is little wonder that you were not well received. Based on that two years, you have determined that civilisation there is inferior in every respect to that of the United States; I cannot possibly see how you can judge an entire continent and the tremendous variety of its cultures in such a short time. Since you have never identified yourself as a Native American, if it weren't for Europe, you wouldn't be where you are, would you? Your forebears were immigrants and yet, by your standard, you would deny that they were - or ever could be - American.
You cite "gratuitous America bashing" yet never provide one example to validate your claims. If, perhaps, you were to illustrate what you consider to be such egregious comments we might have more sympathy for your opinion, but as it is you simply make the accusations much as Joseph McCarthy once did. His numbers ("I have here in my hand a list . . . ") were never verified and I submit that much of the bashing you mention is a product of your febrile imagination.
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Canard;
"If you spoke there in the manner in which you write here, it is little wonder that you were not well received."
I didn't. I was the perfect guest.
"Based on that two years, you have determined that civilisation there is inferior in every respect to that of the United States; I cannot possibly see how you can judge an entire continent and the tremendous variety of its cultures in such a short time."
Inferior in every meaningful way. It's the state of mind they have in common, it's the people themselves. Spanish priests thrilled at the cruel slaughter of an animal as a spectacle, Germans still as antisemitic as ever, French rude and crude, and in Portugal Jews seeing me as an American coming up unsolicited to tell me how horrible it was living there for them. Do you think the Brits get an undeserved reputation as drunken louts? I've met thousands of undiluted Europeans everywhere. I've been in over 40 countries. A miserable lot. I recently met a German woman who lived here for a very long time. She dreads just going back to visit Germany for a couple of weeks every few years. It all forms a pattern, a consistent tapestry. It is small wonder they are always in so much trouble. The spend most of their time inventing it for themselves and for each other. Their instincts are bad. It comes from their cultures. Wherever you look there, there is ethnic and racial strife and all they do is ignore it. They couldn't care less about anyone but themselves. I'm just a mirror showing them how they look to the outside world. I have no reservations about offending them. If they took some of it seriously, perhaps they'd get it into their heads that they should start doing something about it. But I don't expect them too. Much to stubborn. They are what they are and are not about to change in their smugness.
"Since you have never identified yourself as a Native American, if it weren't for Europe, you wouldn't be where you are, would you? Your forebears were immigrants and yet, by your standard, you would deny that they were - or ever could be - American."
I don't know what you mean. I was born in the United States. That makes me a native American. Were my ancestors from Europe? I've said yes and thankfully they were smart enough to leave and come here. I don't know what you are getting at. Your ancestors going back far enough were amoebas. So what. We exist in the here and now, the past is a dead issue. They became Americans easily and naturally. They quickly adopted the culture, language, and values of their new home and prospered in it. As I knew them, they were every bit as American as any others. That's one big difference. If you were not born in a European country of long heritage in that country, the locals will never accept you as a full fledged member of their society. Turks could have lived in Germany going back five generations but to the Germans they will always be outsiders. Look at how France grapples with the question what does it mean to be French. British grapple with what does it mean to be British. We don't have that problem here, we know. That is the difference between other nations whose inclusion of its citizens is based on shared heritage, history, and ties to its land and one based on shared values. Unless and until you understand and internalize that, you will never be fully American no matter how long you live in California.
BTW, I don't want or need your sympathy or anyone elses. I am not a pitiable wretch and I am no one's willing victim. I'd rather die fighting to keep my freedom then submit to the capricious whims of others and I make no apologies for it, nor for who else gets hurt in the process. That is another thing that separates Americans from Europeans. That is why Europe has been in a perpetual state of slavery for thousands of years even up to this very day, our pretending those countries are democracies a pure sham to humor them.
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Bill Clinton is a much-hated man in America. He disgraced the office of the President and betrayed the trust of the American people. He embroiled us in this fantastic misadventure with China what has resulted in the loss of so many American jobs mouthing in public that idiotic One China policy that Nixon at least had the sense to keep under diplomatic wraps.
Naturally, many people were disappointed that the story turned out to be "nothing". And so, yes Mark, Americans are outraged that our news media lacks all judgment and credibility. We are appalled that this pariah is extolled in the press and made a public figure when he should by rights be mocked and censured.
Ah, but it is not a perfect world...and you do so like a bit of "Yank bashing", so I'm sure that you enjoyed pointing out the utter depravity of the American media circus!
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To MAII #197
You hate all Europeans. Why do you hate European Jews?
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_marko
"You hate all Europeans. Why do you hate European Jews?"
I don't believe in discrimination :-)
Besides, I don't find them to be any different than other Europeans in those aspects I described. It's "the golden thread" that runs through all European cultures. Europeans who come to America can be salvaged and civilized though it takes a lot of time. My grandparents and others who arrived here long before I knew them are proof of that. Well, maybe not exactly 100% every time but it can be close. But OMG, when they first get here. Especially if they aren't flat broke. What arrogance :-)
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#197. MarcusAureliusII: "I'm just a mirror showing them how (Europeans) look to the outside world."
Then that must be a distorting, carnival mirror since it is surely not an accurate representation.
Your forebears were immigrants and yet, by your standard, you would deny that they were - or ever could be - American.
"I don't know what you mean."
If you care to read your post at #7, you will see that you wrote "You can come to America, live in America, live among Americans, but unless you arrive at that state of mind you can never be one."
I assume that means all newcomers, not only to the contributor you addressed.
"I was born in the United States. That makes me a native American."
You're being disingenuous; you know very well that the capitalised words 'Native American' refer to the indigenous peoples of the United States - or do you still call them "Indians"?
"BTW, I don't want or need your sympathy or anyone elses."
You're certainly not getting any from me. Pity perhaps, since you have such a myopic and jaundiced view of everything and everyone beyond the contiguous forty-eight states. I wonder if you truly regard Alaskans and Hawaiians as bona fide Americans since many of their citizens were alive and "foreigners" before 1959.
"Europe has been in a perpetual state of slavery for thousands of years even up to this very day, our pretending those countries are democracies a pure sham to humor them."
Just where do you think Democracy originated? You may know much about electricity, but you're short-circuited on that one.
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164. At 8:13pm on 14 Feb 2010, easytarget wrote:
"153 and that is why I have been so rude for so long. because from the start here I have been told I am not american. (and I wish often I was not)."
__________________________
I've had to read this thread three times, and I am still a bit confused. That's why I don't get into these identity arguments - they confuse me and seem to be just another way to argue about the unprovable.
I wrote 153 about and to MarcusAurelius pseudonymous.
The second time I read it (never mind the first) it seemed you were offended that I had said you were not sufficiently American. What I said was that MAII had 'accused someone of not being American in attitude', and further that he (we do beleive MA is male, don't we - (more necessary confusion)) was being (in a temporary sense) 'unAmerican' by that judgement.
This third time through it appears you are agreeing with me, and are offended by MA's judgements.
I do hope the last is correct, and I have not offended - I really don't intend to offend MA, but to hold up the mirror and give him a chance to continue in his more civil mood.
I must also remind myself to stay well clear of this ad hominem muck, as resolved. The snow outside has all gone to mud as well, and that is enough. Frozen ground seemed better.
KScurmudgeon
About being proud to be an American - I thought for a long time that Texans were all brash braggards, bigger than life, insensitive, the ones with the long horns on the front grilles of their Cadillacs. Then my kids moved there and on visits I met a great number of decent folks (my kids among them). The difference seems to be that most of the decent people just can't afford the gas to drive out of the state where we can meet them.
Media, including this one, always skew the sample and distort the picture. Don't make your decisions based on what you see here - including me.
KSc
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You can take the British out of Britain but you can't take Britain out of the British. You're just sore for having lost the Revolution. Sorry, we don't have do-overs in wars :-) You lost fair and square Canard and you're not getting America back. Besides, you'd lose even worse this time. Last time it took around five or six years, this time it would take around five or six minutes. You can come here, inspect the property, kick the tires, you might even take it for a test drive but you will not be bringing it home to your garage. Those days for Britain are about over. Well Britain still has the Malvinas...for now...until the sheep revolt :-) And Gibraltar??? Curious thing about the EU. First all those countries like Ireland fight for independence, Spain is fighting for Gibraltar, Etta is fighting for independence from Spain, Czech and Slovakia want to be different countries, and then they all fight to get into a union to be one superstate. Don't try to make sense of any of it, it is not rational, it is purely emotional, purely European.
It must have come as a shock to President Bush when Angela Merckel invited him on her first visit to Washington DC to have the US join the EU while at about exactly the same moment the French and Austrians were telling Turkey they couldn't join the EU because they weren't Europeans. Don't try to make any sense out of that one either, there isn't any to be found in it.
Modern democracy originated in the United States with the signing of the Constitution. The US may be one of the few, possibly the only real democracy that exists. There were trappings of what would eventually become democracy in other places like ancient Greece, the Magna Carta, and other aspects of English law centuries later but these pieces were insufficient by themselves to be called true democracy. How can a nation where one man has the power to sign away the country's sovereignty with the stroke of one pen without so much as a pretense of approval by his rubber stamp Parliament pretend to call itself a democracy? No public debate, no debate in Parliament, no vote of any kind at all, just King Gordon signing Lisbon on behalf of the British People. What about it is different from the way kings ruled over the realm even before Magna Carta? Pure sham, a total Canard.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
KSmudge, I don't know why the US government began allowing dual citizenship. If you want to be an American you should be required to renounce allegience to all other nations just the way we used to require. If you want to remain a Brit, stay a Brit. If you want to be an Israeli, become an Israeli but you aren't an American anymore. People who come to the US and retain one foot in another country never really make the transition. I think it is to their own detriment. Brits like Canard and jf convince me more than ever even if they do "officially" become US citizens. One official language would be an excellent idea too and I don't mean Spanish or Chinese.
Texans are can-do people. Give a job to a Texan and he'll get it done one way or another. I know, I roomed with a Texan my first year in college. Here's a postcard to that effect from a Texan who was mistakenly born in California near Fresno. Slim Pickins was born to work rodeos and be a Texan in the movies. Can-do no matter what it takes :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgHSDa2Jwqc
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MA -
I agree with you about Texas - If my wife and I were young again we'd be there, all our kids are. It's the land of opportunity today, just as So. California was four decades ago. Unfortunately, even superheroes can't help the gridlock that has grown up in their politics.
KScurmudgeon
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I am surprised how anyone can claim with any degree of plausibility to "have lived in forty countries" in sixty years of life. Even foreign correspondents and diplomats cannot manage to claim that.
But then, if an 'American' has 'lived' in 39 other countries in almost as many years of adult life, what can he know of America?
It's about time people stopped even attempting to imagine MAII is other than a very, very bad (and sick) joke, or deserves to be taken seriously for a second. Especially after the despicable post 200.
It's also time this constant and deliberate bombardment and disruption of BBC blogs particularly by the Magic Giraffe and The Vampire stopped. Or there will be no point in Mark posting another entry, since any real discussion will be drowned within a handful of posts as it has been here.
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200. At 05:28am on 15 Feb 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
_marko "You hate all Europeans. Why do you hate European Jews?" I don't believe in discrimination :-) Besides, I don't find them to be any different than other Europeans in those aspects I described.
It appears I may not object to what is clearly prejudice and call it by its name. (cf 204). Why not?
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Post 200 is clearly antisemitic, and deliberately offensive, and I don't care how often my posts are 'referred to the moderatprs' for saying so, but I am not going to let that rest.
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Um squirrel, no matter how much I like you I suggest you read #200 again. MAII clearly is not interested in serious discussion and too much enjoys being offensive, but I think he neatly deflected the charge of anit-semitism. There are argumentative advantages in being one-dimensional.
KScurmudgeon
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I see that the world now revolves over which is the better continent to live on? Again. Sadly for some the answer is that some places do things better than others & all the vitriol in the world isn't going to make a dent in that.
By all means be proud of your country but if you can only prove how great it is by denigrating other lands then perhaps your arguments need refining.
Ps: If the past is the past & therefore a dead country then both the American revolution & past lives both in America & Europe are history as well. It also follows that the EU is to Europe what the American representation is to America, ie a pain in the neck that could be better.
I'll pop back when school's out.
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210. KScurmudgeon:
No he is, as usual, being merely devious:
1) " I don't find them [in this context 'European Jews'] to be any different than other Europeans in those aspects I described." [200]
2) ""Inferior in every meaningful way."
3) "their entire civilization is inferior to the one I was lucky to be born into and spent most of my life in and that their views are based on myths and lies they have been told"
4) "their minds are basically those of despotic tyrants who will not tolerate real dissent or open discussion, that they do not rationally accept either the past they cannot change or present present as it exists and therefore cannot arrive at any successfull plan for their future, and this also goes to the heart of what makes their civilization so inferior. " [194]
5) ""Europeans who come to America can be salvaged and civilized though it takes a lot of time." [200]
Point proved, I think.
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Since a thoughtful article in Newsweek ("Jihad against Jihadis") has been referred to...
One sentence in Fareed Zakaria's article seems to be worth pointing out in a blog dealing with USA.
"But consider: the most important moderates to denounce militants have been the families of radicals. In the case of both the five young American Muslims from Virginia arrested in Pakistan last year and Christmas bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, parents were the ones to report their worries about their own children to the U.S. government—an act so stunning that it requires far more examination, and praise, than it has gotten. This is where soft power becomes critical. Were the fathers of these boys convinced that the United States would torture, maim, and execute their children without any sense of justice, they would not have come forward. I doubt that any Chechen father has turned his child over to Vladimir Putin's regime."
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ref #183
You were impressed with a poster who said that woman had more freedom in Iran than in the U.S.
Woman who are forced to wear a stupid burkah if they don't want to. Can't criticize ayatollah pigs and other facists in Iran.
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Re:
"I think ColonelArtist is Russian Jewish Colonel from old country."
Reminded me of a joke about a meeting of the Russian General Staff.
A young brilliant major taking advantage of a Q&A part of it questions the Chief of Staff.
- But, if as you say, we'll have to fight China one day, what chances do we have of prevailing? Us being 140 million weak and them being 1400 millions strong?
The Russian marshall simply laughs:
- Major, it's not quantity that counts, but quality!
Look at the Jews: for 60 years 3 million Jews have managed to succesfully repel all attacks by 300 million Arabs.
A young brilliant major (not entirely convinced):
-Yes, comrade Marshall, but do we still have that many Jews?
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211. At 08:33am on 15 Feb 2010, zaphodian wrote
"I see that the world now revolves over which is the better continent to live on? Again. Sadly for some the answer is that some places do things better than others & all the vitriol in the world isn't going to make a dent in that."
For those who would like a break from The Vampire's notions of civilisation (i.e. civilisations that extend back millennia rather than a mere 230 years) I recommend A History of the World in 100 Objects, particularly Episode 13, 'The Indus Seal', representing a civilisation that appears to have got on quite nicely without wars and weapons.
I'm finding it a pleasant counter to all that ignorant vitriol and hyperbole. And I really must get my wheels around the BM (cue more vitriol from the ever-predictable MA about cynical Imperialist European looting?) again and lose myself on all that.
(Maybe we can get back to the topic sometime?)
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MAII wrote re "man of a thousand monikers"
" It's just that I can't keep track of all those aliases. If they are really all yours, it must be quite a trick constantly getting back in after they find you out."
What's the problem? The monikers change but IPs and physical addresses usually don't.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The more things change, the more they stay the same" :-)))
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Re #213
Sorry, I've forgot to attach a link to Fareed Zakaria's thoughful article
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233607 #213
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# 207 squirrelist
Agreed
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Wow the usual bile and sniping suspects are out in for force again I see, now which one is Keyser Soze? So instead of being able to discuss the interesting phenomenon of watering down news in the 24hr rolling news age, we gets digs at President Carter, Tony Blair and the BBC. Once again it appears that we Europeans (or ‘Europeans’, since it appears only certain American posters can use the word in discriminately without a further derailing explaining that despite the word having been used for centuries with a pretty consistent meaning, those of born on the European continent cannot use the term since Europe isn’t a country – even though none of us ever had) cannot comment on America without it being categorised as bashing/hating/jealous/all of the above. Then again neither can American posters, unless they are ‘real’ American (that is holding exactly same views and prejudices as the usual suspects)!
Regarding that definition of what an American is, I have some sympathy with Lucy’s definition. I love my country, I also love parts of Europe but, and here’s the proviso, that love is not unconditional. It is possible to love something and see the faults, accept them and hope that these faults can be corrected.
I find Marcus’s view of what makes an American a ‘real’ American both sad and amusing, it appears to be an American you have to show blind faith to your country and open antagonism towards every other country. You also have to shout this opinion as loudly and as often as possible. Sounds to me that Marcus is trying to convince himself more than anyone else, a bit like some of the loudest homophobes being the least secure about their own sexuality, whereas I am both secure enough in my own sexuality not to care what other people do in the bedroom and happy enough with nationality that I can accept logical criticism (rather than the usuals’ rampant prejudice) of my country and can discuss the matter raised calmly. Marcus and his ilk, Allen for example, are so American that they are a caricature and stereotype and unfortunately not pretty ones.
I expect Marcus will now question my intelligence, my masculinity, make a stupid joke of my name and then tell me why he is more of a man than he is, probably backed up with the standard bunch of giggling hyenas. Instead of actually answering any point, I expect that he will take a single line, then moan and complain if I don’t answer his post in full. Oh and I obviously hate America and Americans, am just jealous because the USA saved the world, Europe is morally and economically bankrupt yada, yada, ya!
Magic – While I have never referred to you as a pickled vegetable, I have on a three occasions (in a single thread) called you a Magic Giraffe, which using modern Japanese completely correct. You on the other hand have made veiled accusations regarding my religious and political views, ignoring that my name has two Hebrew elements, one admittedly tenuous. David is obvious, Murrell according to three books on name I have read is related to Muriel which is a Jewish name. So maybe I am one of those self hating Jews you and those websites that tell you that Mandela is anti-Semitic (yes I have found them and the basis of half your views, see I do read conservative conspiracy website nonsense) go on about, then again maybe I am not! The point is you cannot be sure, which makes you accusations all the more pointless!
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216. At 09:56am on 15 Feb 2010, squirrelist wrote:
(Maybe we can get back to the topic sometime?)
There's a topic? When did that happen?
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Mr Squirrelist,
A word in defence of others.
Most of the discussions on this blog are all Greek to me, but then us simple mounting folk were never exposed to the cultural upbringing you enjoyed and must suffer the consequences. I would have hoped you could find it in your heart to forgive some their faults and like myself take pity on them. Fame and infamy walk hand in hand when attempting to achieve the recognition they seek.
I would agree entirely however about the unfair treatment of other contributors here and their removal, which suggests a blinkered biased moderation approach, confusing to all.
Mark M a typical man who via word and picture shows us he enjoys Phallic symbols and thoughts of power, and no doubt US showmen like MAII and MagicK exhibit perfect examples of the traits he holds dear. {Be thankful that in their wisdom, Greek scholars were lost for a word for it . Can you imagine the depths we ladies could sink to if we too decided a feminine display of 'yonic' symbolism was required on these pages?}.
Even on this thread, [to my own great surprise as well], you will have noticed that MAII can accidentally stumble upon some balanced content yet later invective undermines his work removing any support he may win for his arguments. This Roman self styled vampire happily enjoys biting and suffering the bites from both the hang-ups he has hidden beneath his cloak and those who oppose his arguments, intent on believing it shows him to be a 'real' man. Please humour him. He is his own worst enemy. Allow him his pyrrhic, his little war dance now and again. It is both educational and comical to watch, both here and at home despite the hairy legs and short pants.
MagicK is no different. He does not lose the plot in many discussions because I believe [like me], he is often busy searching to find it, Whether others feel they / we are missing an O ring or not is immaterial. Why should whole truth get in the way of any reply? All do their best with limited knowledge of some facts they know to hand, and with unfounded accusations and allegations being part and parcel of many 'informative' journalistic media pieces in the newspapers today, why not them too?
MAII's invective and Magick's spelling houwever[sic], just show a two finger or middle finger approach to both the typing and types they are and you will never make a silk purse out of a sows ear. [Sorry MagicK Honey,- Before you take objection and get your matzo balls in a twist, that's bull's ear for you.]
Would you really appreciate this blog any more if the phallic 'cymbals' present were excluded, or had their teeth removed?. Apart from reducing the amount of usual suspects to argue with I do believe both you and I would become bored to tears.
If immitation is a form of flattery then the flatulation expressed here must be a high form of irritation, and you all seem to appreciate winding others up.
You Sir are no different.
Respectfully Blanche.
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Typical Americans; over the top with everything!
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Re #222 Blanche wrote: "us simple mounting folk"
Personally, the older I get the more I appreciate "mounting folk". ;)
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David Murrell wrote:
"Wow the usual bile and sniping suspects are out in for force again I see, now which one is Keyser Soze? So instead of being able to discuss the interesting phenomenon of watering down news in the 24hr rolling news age, we gets digs at President Carter, Tony Blair and the BBC. Once again it appears that we Europeans (or ‘Europeans’, since it appears only certain American posters can use the word in discriminately without a further derailing explaining that despite the word having been used for centuries with a pretty consistent meaning, those of born on the European continent cannot use the term since Europe isn’t a country – even though none of us ever had)"
Nonsense. More and more Europhiles use the term European as a nationality and it is very easy to spot when they are doing so instead of simply as someone from the European continent.
"cannot comment on America without it being categorised as bashing/hating/jealous/all of the above."
Yes, anti-Americanism is quite easily to identify, especially coming from your part of the world.
"Then again neither can American posters, unless they are ‘real’ American (that is holding exactly same views and prejudices as the usual suspects)Regarding that definition of what an American is, I have some sympathy with Lucy’s definition. I love my country, I also love parts of Europe but, and here’s the proviso, that love is not unconditional. It is possible to love something and see the faults, accept them and hope that these faults can be corrected."
An American doesn't need to qualify to you, a foreigner, what it means to be American. You don't understand Americans, that's clear, and you probably never will.
"I find Marcus’s view of what makes an American a ‘real’ American both sad and amusing, it appears to be an American you have to show blind faith to your country and open antagonism towards every other country."
That's called nationalism. That's the problem with people from your part of the world, you do not know the difference between patriotism and nationalism.
"You also have to shout this opinion as loudly and as often as possible. Sounds to me that Marcus is trying to convince himself more than anyone else, a bit like some of the loudest homophobes being the least secure about their own sexuality, whereas I am both secure enough in my own sexuality not to care what other people do in the bedroom and happy enough with nationality that I can accept logical criticism (rather than the usuals’ rampant prejudice) of my country and can discuss the matter raised calmly."
You don't "care what other people do in the bedroom" but you and other non-Americans here, and on this site, are obviously not as tolerant about things that go on in America even when they have absolutely nothing to do with you or them. Can you explain that?
"Marcus and his ilk, Allen for example, are so American that they are a caricature and stereotype and unfortunately not pretty ones."
Obviously not "pretty" to you but quite common we both are, that is unless you, as a foreigner, feel you would know better what qualities make up a typical American. The funny thing is you probably do feel you know better.
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zaphodian wrote:
"Ps: If the past is the past & therefore a dead country then both the American revolution & past lives both in America & Europe are history as well. It also follows that the EU is to Europe what the American representation is to America, ie a pain in the neck that could be better."
What is all that suppose to mean??
The EU is not a country, America is.
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MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"KSmudge, I don't know why the US government began allowing dual citizenship. If you want to be an American you should be required to renounce allegience to all other nations just the way we used to require. If you want to remain a Brit, stay a Brit. If you want to be an Israeli, become an Israeli but you aren't an American anymore. People who come to the US and retain one foot in another country never really make the transition. I think it is to their own detriment. Brits like Canard and jf convince me more than ever even if they do "officially" become US citizens. One official language would be an excellent idea too and I don't mean Spanish or Chinese."
Sentiments that most Americans would agree with.
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# 221 zaphodian wrote:
"(Maybe we can get back to the topic sometime?)
There's a topic? When did that happen?"
I have a strange and perhaps irrational aversion to the expression 'LOL' - perhaps because of its over use. [I feel something similar about the word 'amazing'.] So - no one's perfect. I have an occasional strange and irrational moment, just as MA/MK may have a very occasional non-strange and rational one.
Having said all that - I did laugh out loud at this one...
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David Cunard wrote:
"Since you have never identified yourself as a Native American, if it weren't for Europe, you wouldn't be where you are, would you? Your forebears were immigrants and yet, by your standard, you would deny that they were - or ever could be - American."
Unless you have new meanings for the words American and native then anyone born in America is a "Native American."
The term "Native American" used to the exclusion of non-Indian Americans is not only by definition incorrect but it is also by definition racist.
The funny thing is the kind of people that use that term in such a way are supposedly the ones that will tell you they are most sensitive about issues having to do with racism. :)
This American is a native American of American Indian heritage and my fellow Americans that are white, black, or whatever, that were born in this country, are also native Americans. Got that?
"You cite "gratuitous America bashing" yet never provide one example to validate your claims. If, perhaps, you were to illustrate what you consider to be such egregious comments we might have more sympathy for your opinion, but as it is you simply make the accusations much as Joseph McCarthy once did."
You are not "we."
To try and prove anti-Americanism on this web site would be like looking for bugs in a rain forest.
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Re: " The EU is not a country, America is."
As Chevy Chase use to point out at the beginning of his phoney newscasts at Saturday Night Live:
"Hi! I'm Chevy Chase. And you're not!"
Penis envy? On the part of those testicularly challenged?
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226. At 12:32pm on 15 Feb 2010, AllenT2 wrote:
The EU is not a country, America is.
EU = group of semi-autonomous states governed by agreement by federal government
USA = Likewise
Clear? :)
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220. At 10:41am on 15 Feb 2010, David Murrell wrote:
David. An excellent post.
AllenT2... Thank you proving all of his points. Very kind of you.
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227. At 12:36pm on 15 Feb 2010, AllenT2 wrote:
MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"KSmudge, I don't know why the US government began allowing dual citizenship. If you want to be an American you should be required to renounce allegience to all other nations just the way we used to require. If you want to remain a Brit, stay a Brit. If you want to be an Israeli, become an Israeli but you aren't an American anymore. People who come to the US and retain one foot in another country never really make the transition. I think it is to their own detriment. Brits like Canard and jf convince me more than ever even if they do "officially" become US citizens. One official language would be an excellent idea too and I don't mean Spanish or Chinese."
Sentiments that most Americans would agree with.
__________________________
"Civilization is the process in which one gradually increases the number of people included in the term 'we' or 'us' and at the same time decreases those labeled 'you' or 'them' until that category has no one left in it." Howard Winters
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Powermeerkat @ 224,
Glad you liked the deliberate self depreciating humor honey, but you are showing your hormones again.
Being a family minded person I always get upset when there are internal squabbles, having seen too many in the past.
But then you men are all the same, continually seeking confrontation and you becoming one of the big hitters I left un-named, are no exception.
Elsewhere insinuating lack of testicular fortitude - Not more baloney?
I was just doing my best to remove any cobwebs that should linger here to avoid your obvious misunderstanding.
Nothing like a good blow to clear the air eh!
Bet it brought tears to your eyes.
B.
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PartTimeDon – Many thanks and yes Allen does rather doesn’t he?
AllenT2 – Regarding Europhiles (of which I admit I am one) point to one example that says we believe are a single nation? The European continent contains many countries, including Russia. Some of these, not including Serbia, Russia, Belarus, are part of a economic and political group which is called the European Union, under the many treaties and directives that form and shape this Union of nation states, citizens of one of the member states are regarded as citizens of the Union, which pretty logical if you think about it for a nano second.
What I and others have claimed on this board is that we are firstly Europeans, that is as you have stated yourself people who have been born on the continent of Europe, which factually correct. Secondly some of us have correctly claimed that we are European citizens, correct on two counts firstly we are citizens of a European country and secondly, legally under the treaties that govern the EU citizens of a member state are legally citizens of the Union.
The difficulty comes not from Europeans, of which an disproportionate number of posters on this board maybe Europhiles, who seem to have no difficulty in differentiating the various definitions of European, but a select group of American ones, of whom you are an example. Your difficulty appears to be that you feel that this a means to discredit us and score points, which fails on both points. This is a European (British to be exact) board to discuss North America, if we cared on this side of the Atlantic about Europe and the future of the EU, then we would go to the relevant board, I am sure a number do, though I am not one of them.
Regarding Anti-Americanism, which you believe is so easy to identify, I assume you are counting me in that easy definition? I am not convinced that other more moderate American posters would agree with you. Mayhap you can point to my obvious anti-Americanism, because I believe that I have never said that Americans are morally bankrupt, nor that I hope that they fail, a sentiment that your cohort Marcus cannot claim in regards to Europe.
I like aspects of America, I like some Americans, some of which I have met physically, some electronically. I refuse to be bowed over by your country to believe that everything it does is wonderful. If I cannot do that for my own country, the place of my birth and where I choose to live, why should I do so in a country I have never been to, nor am ever likely to?
Indeed since the American posters cannot agree which aspects of America deserve praise, how is an outsider meant to? I assume that to not be anti-American I should only praise the parts and attitudes of America that you find virtuous?
Apparently I as a foreigner cannot understand what it means to be an American, yet you as a foreigner understand implicitly what it means to be British? Yes, that makes sense, in that your hubris and hypocrisy shine through for all to see.
Sorry you were not clear is Marcus showing nationalism or patriotism? It does seem I don’t know the difference if patriotism means you have to hate other countries. If as I suspect Marcus, and by association you are showing nationalism, I am unsure that is something to be proud of.
You say “You don't "care what other people do in the bedroom" but you and other non-Americans here, and on this site, are obviously not as tolerant about things that go on in America even when they have absolutely nothing to do with you or them. Can you explain that?” Thank you for asking, yes I can, you Allen and Marcus are the foreigners here. This is a British website, paid for by the British public, we feel we have the right to voice our opinions, because we have paid for the privilege. This has been explained to your previously, by me no less, effectively you are crossing the Atlantic to give your views of your country in mine. That is why I feel I have a right. Really, look up what the BBC means, actually since you seem incapable of that relatively simple task I will, once again, tell you: the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation. So this is a BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation journalist giving his opinion on America on the BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation website designed for and paid by the BRITISH public. The BRITISH Broadcasting Corporation’s mandate is to inform and entertain the BRITISH public. Now is that clear enough for you?
You claim that you and your fellow American ‘patriots’ are the typical Americans, something not backed up by experience. You are and the fellow hyenas do not form the majority of the American posters here, just the most vocal. Nor do you match up with my experience of meeting American’s in the flesh, yes a small minority have been obnoxious and pompous, but the same can be said of any nationality. I should point out that neither you, Marcus or the rest of your ilk voted for Obama, yet by a large majority he was voted into office, meaning you are less typical than you claim.
"Marcus and his ilk, Allen for example, are so American that they are a caricature and stereotype and unfortunately not pretty ones."
Obviously not "pretty" to you but quite common we both are, that is unless you, as a foreigner, feel you would know better what qualities make up a typical American. The funny thing is you probably do feel you know better.
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DRUM;
"I expect Marcus will now question my intelligence, my masculinity,..."
Not your intelligence or masculinity but your veracity and knowledge. To be an American means to embrace core values we share, not to agree with the present government's policies. I'm not going to enumerate them here. In fact to really understand them you'd need to study American history carefully. Those values are embodied in the three documents which shaped American society, The Declaration of Independence, the Constitution of the United States, and the Bill of Rights. It is true that America did not live up to its ideals initially but over time it has closed the gap between what its founders hoped it would be and what it has become. It was a slow painful process but it is surely working. Not only is the Presidency of Barack Obama proof, but the countless steps that led up to it, steps that took over two centuries to arrive at blazed a trail that left the rest of human society far behind. Europe by contrast has not taken even the first step down that road. It doesn't choose to go down that road at all. There would be no Barack Obama as we know him had there not been countless thousands of other Americans many of who remain anonymous not just working for the rights of African Americans or other racial minorities but for so many other perfections to our society. There would be no Barack Obama without a Martin Luther King, a Thurgood Marshall, a President Lyndon Johnson, just to name a few. Where are Europe's Lyndon Johnsons, Martin Luther Kings, Thurgood Marshalls? Without them there will never be a European Barack Obama. It will always be stuck with the mediocre like Nicolas Sarkozy, Angela Merckel, Gordon Brown and their predecessors and counterparts. For all of Barack Obama's faults including his inexperience, his European counterparts are not in his league when it comes to raw intelligence. European countries like many other countries, India for example precludes much of its human capital from ever contributing to its society. That alone has given America one huge advantage. Those in Europe who have something to contribute but are excluded by their race, ethnicity, religion, or gender invariably leave to fulfill their lives elsewhere, often in the United States. Even someone with talents so modest that they express themselves by creating the likeness of frogs from scrap metal used as lawn ornaments come here. One way or another everyone eventually finds their niche here. The real reason jf never goes back to Britain is becausee there is no value placed on him in Europe, his skills considered worthless, his potential ignored or dismissed. Many of Europe's greatest scientists, inventors, entrepreneurs achieved their life's work in America because they had no chance at all in Europe.
I've only lived in two countries but I've been in over 40 of them. I've encountered Europeans on their own soil in their native habitat, here in mine, and elsewhere including on ships, planes, and trains. Talking with them they are often outwardly pleasant but they can invariably reveal clues to their inner attitudes that lie at their core. And it is always the same. And they always find reasons to blame someone else for their problems in life, never their own shortcomings. They can therefore never take that first crucial step in improving their lot by improving themselves. They are of the view that someone else should do it for them. Just read all their blog entries here, every one a gripe or accusation. Every problem they have is someone else's fault. That is why they remain right where they are and why it is not necessary to visit them again in Europe to learn they haven't changed even if the trappings of their physical existance are improved.
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Marcus – I see you have become wary to walk directly into my traps, well done.
So you to be an American you need to share the same core values? Shame that no one, other than you and your ilk, seem to have told all the other Americans what these values should be, as for a knowledge of American history, it was you that claimed that one of the Founding Father’s had made a famous declaration in England running away from King George. The truth of course is that the said Father never left the North American continent and made his statement in Virginia, also that he had stood against the Constitution. Now who corrected you on those….. I know it was some European chap, his name rings a bell, or should that be DRUM?
Your patriotism appears to be almost blind faith, I am always wary of those who follow something without question. Also your concerns regarding us poor blighted Europeans attitude towards the glorious USA smacks of slight paranoia. They seem friendly enough but you could detect that hidden resentment.
Question: if the USA is so wonderful, compared to everywhere else in the world why did you end up living in France?
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"If you were not born in a European country of long heritage in that country, the locals will never accept you as a full fledged member of their society"
this guy who has spent two years telling me an american by birth who has lived in the states for ten years in a row now and had previously visited for several months at a time for most of his life (cousins in ohio ) says that other nations in europe do not fully accept people who are not born here.
And then wonders why I mock him.
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Seems Easy Target has lived up to his moniker and has been torpedoed by the dreaded U boats.
I wonder if the mods worked unilaterally or whether some of the self imposed thought police nudged them. If it is the latter then it will be a shame that the hyenas seem to lack the strength of their convictions.
I am sure ET or someone like will return, a small piece of advice for next time “don’t give him your name Pike!”
That’s a Dad’s army quote for those not in the know!
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It's easy for people like colonel artist to diss the USA. But have you ever tried to look for the good? Or imagined what it really is like to be an American? America is not just like we are portrayed in the movies, likely contrary to your belief. Most normal Americans are not featured in movies, as they live nice, quiet lives or do not brag about their exploits. Movies are not always reality, especially as some get crazier and some more bizarre.
You do not know what it feels like to be American, because you are not one. I do not know what it feels like to be in your shoes, either and cannot claim such. All of the people on this blog have had very different experiences to lead up to whatever is in their mind's eye.
It is every American's right to question actions by the government that they do not like. But you should still support your country, just the same. I may not agree with everything our govt. does, but I am extremely grateful that Americans do have the right to protest and not be arrested by the govt. like they do in other countries.
That is all I ask of Americans- love your country, even if you don't support the govt. Work for changes if you do not like what is going on. A true American is the one that loves their country. If an American does not love the USA, even if that person is legally an American, that person is not really an American inside.
And if you do not love America, do not come here. It is pointless. You will never be happy here as long as you don't give America a chance. You give us a chance, you would be surprised at how normal Americans are just like everyone else. We are all just humans.
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yes DM it seems the boat was sunk.
still east targets go down in flames.
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#205. MarcusAureliusII: I don't know why the US government began allowing dual citizenship. If you want to be an American you should be required to renounce allegience to all other nations just the way we used to require."
And continue so to do. Misinformation does not assist you.
#229. AllenT2: "You are not "we."
Wanna bet?
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Ref #236MAII:
"For all of Barack Obama's faults including his inexperience, his European counterparts are not in his league when it comes to raw intelligence."
__________________
How ironic that you can't find a single nice thing to say about Obama until you have to compare him to non-Americans and when you do say something complimentary you get it wrong.
Gordon Brown may be lacking for a lot of things when it comes to leading a country, but he is has an IQ of 152, a first class degree and a Ph.D. Obama kick's his ass with shear political ability, but his IQ is estimated at between 132 and 145.
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Look at the Jews: for 60 years 3 million Jews have managed to succesfully repel all attacks by 300 million Arabs.
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Look at the pathans for almost 10 yrs they have managed to stand up against the world, including all the super powers of the day with only their Ak 47s and IED. Now, here is the nation that the world should invest in, not fight against.
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"But consider: the most important moderates to denounce militants have been the families of radicals. In the case of both the five young American Muslims from Virginia arrested in Pakistan last year and Christmas bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, parents were the ones to report their worries about their own children to the U.S. government—an act so stunning that it requires far more examination, and praise, than it has gotten. This is where soft power becomes critical. Were the fathers of these boys convinced that the United States would torture, maim, and execute their children without any sense of justice, they would not have come forward. I doubt that any Chechen father has turned his child over to Vladimir Putin's regime."
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And Fareed is still stuck in rumsfeld's era where he proudly announced that prisoners in gitmo were treated better than they would have treated themselves..Fareed Zakeria is the most radical tunnel vission propogandist turned expert turn host..He is two steps ahead of that dobbs guy of cnn who have now resgined..He dances around the lies, or ignorance. I saw clips of his one show in which he so generously told lies or showed his ignorance that it was pathetically hilarious..
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U14283552
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i told you easytarget that you would get a ban,and there you are turned into a U.
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I remember when Fareed Zakeria wrote an article stating that Iran was more democratic and westernized than ever. This article came out right before the huge protests and Green Revolution during the last election. The peaceful protesters there were greeted with violence, threats and intimidation. Communication to the outside world was also cut off. That is no democratic society.
Maybe some of the Iranian people are more democratic and westernized, but their govt. certainly is not. We have to continue to reach out to the Iranian people, but their govt. is hopeless.
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LucyIllinois, I agree will you completely.
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I remember when Fareed Zakeria wrote an article stating that Iran was more democratic and westernized than ever. This article came out right before the huge protests and Green Revolution during the last election. The peaceful protesters there were greeted with violence, threats and intimidation. Communication to the outside world was also cut off. That is no democratic society.
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you dont know how your government will react if the no to universal health reform start to stage protests the way the looser party in iran has done...Judging by your waco expearnce is that they will first label the protesters as un patriotic, then evil and then besige them and start shooting..Dont speak unless you have been tested.
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Fareed zakria, Amanpour and Dobs whatever his name is, three people who misuse their credibility to the point of no return..Their expert opinions and disccussions can only be held when the guests or the listeners have the same opinions as them, if I can point out the ignorance or deliberate attempt to spread lies, then I am sure the westerners who claim to know a lot better than me, can do so with their eyes and ears shut..Their modus operandi is to misuse their credibility by casually interjecting a word or a sentence here and there which is totally false and baseless..Out of their own minds, those casually but carefully places setences have no truth.
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It's easy for people like colonel artist to diss the USA. But have you ever tried to look for the good?
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Read my words. I have no relationship with usa..The limit of my relationship ends where the internal politics of the country starts.My relationship with usa is based and develop on how it treats my fellow countries, my reliious fellow, my countrymen, my tribe. How americans live their lives in their own country is not something i am interested to know or find out..I see no good with america based on what i have said..If it wants to be looked good, it has to act good, not with its own people, because thats not i am interested in, but with the people i have mentioned and in the order I have mentioned.
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246 seemed he had been allowed for some time to admit who he is. then the rules suddenly got enforced with the same bias he complains about.note I will use no capitals.saves electrons maybe.
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I should have said, Iran's government, as it stands, is hopeless. Unless something changes, Iran will be more of the same. Ahmajimijad was pretty rude to Hillary today, stating that he does not take her comments seriously. Well, then how are we supposed to take your comments seriously, either, Aghmajimijadddd???
Actually, colonel artist, I have protested before and it was done peacefully. There were protesters against Bush, too, when he became President instead of Gore, as many were deeply unhappy. There was nothing those protesters could do to change the legal system, but they wanted to protest against Bush and they did it, anyway, without any violence. That was the first Bush election. Thank God Bush is gone now from office! We still have to live with his mistakes, but at least he's not the President anymore. President Obama may have hit some snags, but I would rather have him as President anyday over Bush!
When you bring violence to a protest, that is when it gets bad. Peaceful protests, on the other hand, are good for people, no matter what country you are from. In the USA, protests against just about everything are normal. The animal protesters for PETA drive me crazy though. I absolutely love animals and believe in their rights, but PETA has the tendency to go too far, such as when they criticized Obama for swatting a fly during the interview. Obama took the fly out on the first swat. He has good aim, likely from his basketball days.
I have written letters to the editor of the local newspaper with my actual name, city, ect. about different topics, including my dislike of Bush. Although I was called a commie pinko something or other on the Internet blog the next day, there were no threats or intimidations. I live in an 80 % Republican town.
Christine Amanpour is really good. I am a big fan of her. Not so much the other two. CNN just likes to be the first one to break news. They also love drama.
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colonel artist, I do not know where you are from, so I cannot make an assessment about your surrounding countries you are talking about. I imagine they are the Middle East, which is a pretty wide and vague area. Maybe you could give me a description of your country without saying the name?
I do not know much about the Middle East, but it makes me think of spices, sandals, robes, snakes in baskets and citar/flute music.
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43. At 01:40am on 13 Feb 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote
TO: CrackPot562;
"BBC is neither fair nor objective often interspersing editorial opinion nearly inseparably with news reporting."
While I have seen a few examples that might earn such criticism, the This criticism would be far more appropriately leveled at FOX where even the real news is editorially spun for social and/or political effect.
Plus there is that lie about being fair and balanced. Yes, I know you are thinking that other sources have bias too. But please give credit to CNN for at least hiding their bias behind a more convincing veneer of balance than the "Faux 'NEWS'" channel.
Do not look behind the green curtain, do not look.....oh, hello Mr. Murdock!
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107. At 00:58am on 14 Feb 2010, MarcusAureliusII wrote to: jf
"...Among other things jf, being an American is a state of mind. You can come to America, live in America, live among Americans, but unless you arrive at that state of mind you can never be one."
I am minimum 4th generation US citizen on all sides and some of my forebears were here in time to shoo the redcoats back into Boston at gunpoint. Nothing irritates me as much as some redstate redneck like Sarah Palin insinuating that I am not a “real American” because I don’t swallow her ignorant right-wing claptrap.
I am not accusing you of the same, and certainly hope that you are not of that sort. But in this great and heterogeneous country, who is to decide who is American enough or whose views are close enough? But I do resent the just shut up I know I’m/we’re better than you attitude that characterize some of the posts here.
My ancestors may have been here first [apologies to native Americans and other earlier arrivals] but does that give me the right to decide who is welcome and who to order out? I think not.
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212. At 09:13am on 15 Feb 2010, squirrelist wrote:
210. KScurmudgeon:
"No he is, as usual, being merely devious:
4) 'their minds are basically those of despotic tyrants who will not tolerate real dissent or open discussion, that they do not rationally accept either the past they cannot change or present present as it exists and therefore cannot arrive at any successfull plan for their future, and this also goes to the heart of what makes their civilization so inferior. ' [194]
Point proved, I think."
Have you considered that the poster you know as MAII may be
a. a sort of American James Joyce
b. a sort of devil's advocate
c. just putting people on
d. all of the above [at once or seriatim]
When he writes about electrical engineering, it is obvious that he genuinely knows his stuff. I have known a few engineers who have similar [to me very odd] ways of looking at the world. MAII may [pardon the flight of SciFi fantasy] be rather like an American rather than Vulcan Mister Spock looking at the puzzlingly emotional and illogical Europeans.
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