Obama rounds on critics
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste," the Obama administration said in the midst of economic meltdown and the same must go for the attempted bombing of a transatlantic jet as it flew into Detroit on Christmas Day.
Borrowing that sign from Harry Truman's desk - "the buck stops here" - is a bit of a hostage to fortune. But his advisors must hope that taking personal responsibility will go down well with the American people. Apparently, it worked for JFK. He said the same thing after the Bay of Pigs debacle. His approval ratings shot up. Only later did he fire the head of the CIA. By the way, Mr Obama is only following a tradition - all US presidents since Kennedy have used the phrase at least once.
More importantly, Mr Obama has rounded on his Republican critics. They attack him for not using the term "war on terror". This is not surprising - it is an article of liberal faith that you cannot wage war on abstract nouns. But he sounded a note of battle, not for the first time.
"We are at war. We are at war against al-Qaeda, a far-reaching network of violence and hatred that attacked us on 9/11, that killed nearly 3,000 innocent people, and that is plotting to strike us again. And we will do whatever it takes to defeat them," he said.
But the nub of the criticism of Mr Obama is that by trying to close Guantanamo Bay, and by treating militants as criminals not enemies of the state, he is weak.
There is little doubt al-Qaeda scored a major victory over Detroit, even though no-one was badly hurt. After all, the core aim of al-Qaeda militants is not simply to kill people but to terrorise them, and so effect political change. The US is very jittery at the moment.
The criticism of some, immediately after the Christmas Day plot, was that Mr Obama was too cool, not emotional enough - in fact, insufficiently terrified. There is at least an argument that the most potent allies of the militants, the unwitting foot solders of al-Qaeda's cause, are all those columnists and bloggers who want to raise the status of the enemy from mere common criminal to warrior, and who worry that the US is not being sufficiently hysterical. The president seems aware that there is more ways than one for a militant group to win.
"We will not succumb to a siege mentality that sacrifices the open society and liberties and values that we cherish as Americans, because great and proud nations don't hunker down and hide behind walls of suspicion and mistrust. That is exactly what our adversaries want, and so long as I am president, we will never hand them that victory. We will define the character of our country, not some band of small men intent on killing innocent men, women and children," he said on Thursday.
A poke in the eye for former Vice-President Dick Cheney at the end of that, followed up by a plea for unity, confidence and optimism, continuing: "That's what it means to be strong in the face of violent extremism."
Mr Obama is suggesting that it is his critics who have shown weakness and fear by abandoning American values. It is a bold attempt to turn this shambles into a statement that he is the really tough one, just tough in his own way.
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~56~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
In the abstract I agree with much of what he said; but I very much suspect that the impetus towards being more hysterical, more 'sufficiently terrified', more fearing, more of a city with the besiegers at its walls, and the barbarians in the suburbs, is so strong now, only the 'war cry' will have anybody cheering.
Since three thousand people died in New York, many more innocent people have died; I think I would have respected him more had he made some mention of those who have been murdered outside the USA too.
Complain about this comment
I grew up with weekly news of people being killed or maimed by car bombs or being shot in the back of their heads. Politicians, doctors, professors, journalists, almost anybody could be a target.
People in America will eventually have to learn to live with that. Maybe it is me, but as Justin Webb once said, in the US the general level of 'nastiness' (rowdy behavior, occasional fights, petty theft, mugging attempts, etc.) seems to be much lower than in most of the places I know in Europe - or maybe I've lived in the wrong places in europe (and the right places in the US). Could that, along with a collection of dysfunctional media outlets, be a reason why people get so carried away with al qaeda? Not having other things to be afraid of?
Complain about this comment
Time to rally around the flag, me boys. I decided that this week, I like BHO. He finally showed that he is not a mary. Lets hope he keeps it up. The so-called terrorist is singing like a canary, all BHO has to show him is the water board and he will spill the beans to save his own skin. Rally around the flag me boys... Acouple well palced air dentotations should take care of the compuonds in jumping yemeny
Complain about this comment
President Obama said:
"We will not succumb to a siege mentality that sacrifices the open society and liberties and values that we cherish as Americans, because great and proud nations don't hunker down and hide behind walls of suspicion and mistrust. That is exactly what our adversaries want, and so long as I am president, we will never hand them that victory.
We will define the character of our country, not some band of small men intent on killing innocent men, women and children," he said on Thursday.
__________
Hallelujah.
A President who understands the core values that have made America great. He has nailed the colours of Liberty to the mast, and is prepared to stand up and defend them.
Hallelujah.
Complain about this comment
It's all very well saying 'the buck stops here', but not if the animal is going to be cut to pieces by roof-to-deer missiles before it gets anywhere near the Oval Office.
I've just read the preliminary report on the 'shambles', and it looks fairly clear the buck isn't going to get at all close to anyone.
"The thorough analysis of large volumes of information has enabled a variety of departments and agencies to take action to prevent attacks . . .many of which the American people will never know about."
The significant findings of our review are :
The watchlisting system is not broken. . .
A reorganisation of the intelligence or broader counterterrorism community is not required. . ."
I offer these two nuggets:
"Analytic focus during December was on tthe imminent AQAP attacks on Americans and Americans in Yemen. . ." (They mean the US Embassy.)
"A misspelling of Mr Abdulmutallab's name initially resulted in the State Department believing he did not [my italics, make of this what you will] have a valid US visa . . .A series of human errors occurred--delayed dissemination of a finished intelligence report and incomplete/faulty database searches on Mr Abdulmutallab's name."
And we are to take on trust, after this, the truth of that first paragraph?
The buck stops with the guy who couldn't spell. If you're planning on being a suicide bomber in the USA, and your name is John Doe, you might get caught. Change it to something even harder to spell.
Complain about this comment
3 (amerika_first)
That was quick.
Complain about this comment
Unfortunately, there where I come from is a place where we had to learn to deal with a different kind of terrorism, similar to this one, but more selective (Kaixo comment#2 :) ). Anyone could be killed at anytime. The strength of a democratic society against it, is not shown through more police reppression, lack of civil liberties and rights, or cheap political demagogy. A democracy is strong when terrorism does not change it, is strong when people go on with their lives whatever it takes, is strong when people look at the faces of the terrorist and say "You can scare me, you can even kill me, but you won't scare my country, my history, my democracy. And my sons will live in the same country I lived, with the same conditions, no matter whether you are around or not".
Mr. Obama is the real strength of the USA. Mr Cheney is only a shaking coward.
Complain about this comment
Sounds like a "24" episode. Jack Bauer, in the form of the right wing must come to the rescue of this tomfoolery..
Cut the head off the snake, and during the interim peace, let the leftists run things until we are over run with more snakes. Reminds me of Winston Churchill's constant struggle...
Complain about this comment
4. Interestedforeigner; 2. iongauge; 7. Uncle Matt. . .
Three cheers. (But I observe we all appear to have something in common. . .that amerika_first perhaps doesn't share.) So maybe I'll reduce it to two until we have more posts. . .
Complain about this comment
5. (Correction)
Before anybody picks me up, lines 13-14 should have read:
' "Analytic focus during December was on tthe imminent AQAP attacks on Americans and American interestsin Yemen. . ." (They mean the US Embassy.)'
Complain about this comment
7. At 04:16am on 08 Jan 2010, Uncle Matt wrote:
"A democracy is strong when terrorism does not change it, is strong when people go on with their lives whatever it takes, is strong when people look at the faces of the terrorist and say "You can scare me, you can even kill me, but you won't scare my country, my history, my democracy. And my sons will live in the same country I lived, with the same conditions, no matter whether you are around or not".
The month after the London Tube bombings, a couple of million people went into the streets for Notting Hill Carnival as usual; every lamppost had (instead of an effigy!) this poster hanging from it: "We are LondONErs".
Complain about this comment
To amerika_first #3
"Acouple well palced air dentotations should take care of the compuonds in jumping yemeny"
Maybe someone can help explain it to me...
When someone does something bad and you decide to criticise or retaliate in some way, what is the rationale behind your action?
Do you target:
the country where they came from, where the attack came from or the place where they learnt the skills used in the attack,
forget the location and generalize to any convenient group however many billions make up that group,
forget the larger group and just hold the perceived leadership of that group responsible,
target any related people based on any tenuous relationships or characteristics, such as town, family, religion, present or past colleagues, appearance, metaphors and adjectives etc.
or just make up any narrative and speculative link or generalisation that is compatible with your own ambition and interests, regardless of accuracy?
Complain about this comment
We are at war. We are at war against al-Qaeda, a far-reaching network of violence and hatred
I expect him to get even by invading Ecuador.
Complain about this comment
Re misspelling...
BBC has reporterted that the name of the Nigerian bomber wannabe hasn't shown up on the SD's list, because it was , I quote " missspelled".
Yes, miSSSpelled.
Well, Mark, it seems buck stops HERE. :-)))
Complain about this comment
The whole quote:
"The report revealed that a missspelling of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's name had led the State Department to believe that he did not have a valid US visa - which he did." [BBC]
Literallly!
Complain about this comment
'Al-Qaeda's leadership is hunkered down.'
Hunkered down, Mr. President, not because of your efforts, but because it hides in Waziristan caves from Reapers of certain agency hovering there on orders of your predecessor.
And as for your claim that al-Qaida offers a "bankrupt vision of misery and death", nothing could be further from the truth.
Al-Qaida (and affiliated outfits) is so successful in recruiting new terrorists because it offers misfits and alienated miscreants a coherent, enticing vision of paradise and 72 virgins awaiting everybody who joins Holy War against "crusaders" and martyrs himself.
Although, grant you, doesn't offer them health and life insurance.
Complain about this comment
#3 "I decided that this week, I like BHO"
According to the polls many Americans prefer HBO.
Complain about this comment
16 meerkat
"Although, grant you, [AQ] doesn't offer them health (and life) insurance."
So they have more in common with the US than you thought ;-)
Complain about this comment
Some nice words from the President, the whole you don’t sacrifice the liberties you hold dear because a few fanatics attack you rings true to me. Like anyone who grew up in the UK in 70’s & 80’s (or indeed lived through the Troubles) the near constant threat of terrorism existed. Okay the IRA never killed as many people but their attacks were more common and I know people who were directly or indirectly affected by those attacks. I don’t hate every Northern Irish Catholic, I don’t blame them for the actions of a few, my disgust was only ever levelled at those who thought they could manage political change by killing people.
While I like Obama’s sentiment I take it with a pinch of salt for two reasons: One – He is a politician, I take anything a politician says with a pinch of salt. Two – He is American, before certain quarters froth on their own blood let me explain, the American government has a habit of taking knee jerk reactions and a habit of subjecting its population to fear, be it Communism or Jihadism the enemy is always made out to be more of a bogeyman than it actually is. Large chunks of the US population are conservative and see any ideological change as weakness. The very idea of not standing up and giving someone who threatens you a bloody knows is an ideological change, just wait for a certain emperor’s reaction as evidence.
To balance my criticism of the USA, the habits I pointed out are now common in the UK and I suspect elsewhere in Europe. According to the government and certain (pretty much all, including the BBC) we are meant to be scared of so many things it’s a shock anyone ever leaves the house. Luckily enough of us in the UK are cynical enough not to trust everything we read and hear and I guess, from this blog, the same is true in America.
Complain about this comment
Powermeerkat – Its not just in the US, I prefer HBO to BHO afterall HBO has Trueblood and Hung!
Complain about this comment
Sorry that this is not strictly relevant to the article, but I wanted to point out that when I log onto the BBC news website, the "main story" as often as not has a picture of Obama next to it. What's more, it's always the same kind of picture: Obama looking serious, presidential, trying to look like he's making "tough" decisions.
There are two possibilities: either Obama is about the only thing happening on Planet Earth right now, or someone senior at the BBC is in love with him. Given that no other news source (at least outside the US) has anywhere near as much coverage of him, my money is on the latter.
Complain about this comment
Jon – I guess you’re looking at the international version of the website then. The British one has the fact that it was cold and snowing last night, just as it has all week. If you are in the UK apparently the only noteworthy news this week has been the snow, according to all the major British news agencies. Obama does get billing as one of the top news stories, but plays second fiddle to the weather.
Complain about this comment
20. At 08:43am on 08 Jan 2010, D R Murrell wrote:
Powermeerkat – Its not just in the US, I prefer HBO to BHO afterall HBO has Trueblood and Hung!
Complain about this comment"
Disagree with you there.
Watched one episode of the former and it was stiff with sugered sentimentality.
Featured a bleating vampire recounting his adventures in the Civil War on the rebel side. Oddly throughout the whole of his tedious recounting slavery was not mentioned once and neither did his modern audience ask about it.
So the US of Amnesia is still doing well.
Complain about this comment
16. At 07:40am on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
'Al-Qaeda's leadership is hunkered down.'
Hunkered down, Mr. President, not because of your efforts, but because it hides in Waziristan caves from Reapers of certain agency hovering there on orders of your predecessor."
The agency that doesn't bother to search spies and has failed in every one of its main endeavours over the last ten years.
And as for your claim that al-Qaida offers a "bankrupt vision of misery and death", nothing could be further from the truth.
Al-Qaida (and affiliated outfits) is so successful in recruiting new terrorists because it offers misfits and alienated miscreants a coherent, enticing vision of paradise and 72 virgins awaiting everybody who joins Holy War against "crusaders" and martyrs himself."
Completely irrelevant and as usual based on complete ignorance of religion, Islam and human motivation.
The reason Al-Queda works is because it offers followers a chance to strike back at the invader/preceived oppressor in a highly effective and public manner.
The chance to be a "hero", even a notorious one.
Consequently attemtping to convince people that paradise is different is unlikely to be effective in damping down the campaign.
Complain about this comment
"We will not succumb to a siege mentality that sacrifices the open society and liberties and values that we cherish as Americans, because great and proud nations don't hunker down and hide behind walls of suspicion and mistrust. That is exactly what our adversaries want, and so long as I am president, we will never hand them that victory. We will define the character of our country, not some band of small men intent on killing innocent men, women and children," he said on Thursday
***********************************************************************
President Obama’s speech reminded me of a Photoshop picture I saw once. It was when the ideas for the new WTC building were considered, in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. The new WTC, as represented in the picture, showed five buildings next to each other. The building in the middle was a lot taller than the others ;-)
Complain about this comment
3. At 03:39am on 08 Jan 2010, amerika_first wrote:
Time to rally around the flag, me boys. I decided that this week, I like BHO. He finally showed that he is not a mary. Lets hope he keeps it up. The so-called terrorist is singing like a canary, all BHO has to show him is the water board and he will spill the beans to save his own skin. Rally around the flag me boys... Acouple well palced air dentotations should take care of the compuonds in jumping yemeny"
Let's hope he doesn't "spill" as effectively as the CIA's contact in Khost. He spilled over everyone.
Complain about this comment
LAW LIBRARY PART 5 (*)
(*)=Papoose
Terrorism
It's wicked, it's exorcism
Where are the terrorist?
Are they locked in prison
Or are they in the government in different positions?
Are they the suicide bombers or the polititions?
Did the Twin Towers fall cause the planes hit'em
Or did they collapse cause of control demolition?
Witnesses heared an explosion blast off
....
So whose to blame for all the hi-jakin?
Al Queda, George Bush, or Bin-Ladin?
The government tryin to find out, who bombed Manhattan
Take a look straight in the mirror, your lookin at'em
The home land security, the patriot act
Look at Afganastan, the war in Iraq
What's the next chapter in my glossary?
Article 1.60 robbery
Complain about this comment
Simon – Actually in the episode before that Terra confronted Bill (the vamp) about owning slaves and his attitude to slavery. Considering that he was in a meeting dedicated to the glorious south, not a surprise that the crowd didn’t raise the subject of slavery. Unlike many vamp programmes/films at least in Trueblood they don’t mope around bemoaning the fact. Even Bill who tries to be nice, still has no real compunction about killing people or forcing them to do his bidding, he just doesn’t like killing them for food.
Fact remains I still prefer HBO programmes to Obama, who is after all a career politician (a bit like a vamp without the fangs), in the main they are intelligent programmes (well the ones I have seen over here) much better than most of samey washed out stuff the UK used to get. Most of my favourite programmes come out of the US: Dexter, Bones, House, Trueblood, Big Bang Theory, How I Met Your Mother & Hung, though I understand the US version of Life on Mars was pants, which is a shame.
Sorry, normal programming will now be resumed, to keep things on topic.
Complain about this comment
28. At 10:25am on 08 Jan 2010, David Murrell wrote:"I understand the US version of Life on Mars was pants"
I think if a show bombs we have to say it was 'underpants' now.
(Normal re-programmingwill be resumed. . .)
Complain about this comment
Law Library Part 6 (*)
(*)=Papoose
Complain about this comment
""We are at war. We are at war against al-Qaeda, a far-reaching network of violence and hatred that attacked us on 9/11, that killed nearly 3,000 innocent people, and that is plotting to strike us again. And we will do whatever it takes to defeat them," he said."
however from his very own govts website the stats show that for the last 8 years there have been around 7000 deaths due to worldwide terrorist activity (most serious actions) outside of war zones.
we in that time have helped to kill 1 million in iraq and some 30 000 in afghansitan and now some 5000 in pakistan.
we are chasing an esitmated 100 al qaeda in afghansitan, 300 in pakistan (the latter has an estimated 2000 taliban - some of which are being funded by the indian raw, american cia and uks mi6 according to reputable pakistan sources) with 250 000 troops in afghansitan and pakistan has 500 000.
doesnt quite add up does it?
even more interesting is the detroit bomber :
knowledge that first reveals the 80 grams of PETN explosive he carried in his crotch lacked a blasting cap to blow him and the plane away. Instead, lighting with an injection of liquid did nothing but set him on fire. As if no one in the military or intelligence knew that.
John McCarthy, retired Marine captain from the Vietnam War "the false flaggers forgot that a blasting cap is required to detonate PETN and other plastic explosives. Sure, it will burn and we used it in winter to heat our cans of food, but a blasting cap is missing from the mix. So, the PTB’s [Powers That Be] wanted to raise the fear factor, which this incident did, without loss of life and a $75 million dollar airplane . . . "
Complain about this comment
and elsewhere
Officials in the Obama White House are considering the possibility that the Christmas day attempt by Nigerian terrorist Umar Farouk Mutallab to blow up an airliner about to land in Detroit was deliberately and intentionally facilitated by unnamed networks inside the US intelligence community. This was the gist of a report by Richard Wolf delivered in this evening's edition of cable network MSNBC's Countdown program, hosted by Keith Olbermann. This report comes on the eve of a special White House interagency conference convoked by Obama to deal with the massive systemic failure of US intelligence in allowing the Yemen alumnus Mutallab to board the Amsterdam to Detroit flight while allegedly carrying a PETN explosive device on his person.
Complain about this comment
28. At 10:25am on 08 Jan 2010, David Murrell wrote:
Simon – Actually in the episode before that Terra confronted Bill (the vamp) about owning slaves and his attitude to slavery. Considering that he was in a meeting dedicated to the glorious south, not a surprise that the crowd didn’t raise the subject of slavery."
Clearly, but no dramatic use was made of the ommission. The contradiction was not highlighted.
To me it was too much "gone with the wind" (pernicious nonsense if ever there was) and too little "time on the cross".
Complain about this comment
Squirrel – Nuts to that (see what I did there), I wear trousers and jeans and would never go out in public in just my pants. As an Englishman the phrase will always be pants, turning it into underpants would be just pants!
Complain about this comment
"The criticism of some, immediately after the Christmas Day plot, was that Mr Obama was too cool, not emotional enough - in fact, insufficiently terrified. There is at least an argument that the most potent allies of the militants, the unwitting foot solders of al-Qaeda's cause, are all those columnists and bloggers who want to raise the status of the enemy from mere common criminal to warrior, and who worry that the US is not being sufficiently hysterical. The president seems aware that there is more ways than one for a militant group to win."
---------------------------------------
Mark, I found this paragraph of yours to be sufficiently hysterical and rather chilling. Please let me know what is considered acceptable criticism of our dear leader less I run-a-foul of the Mardell state apparatus.
Complain about this comment
"Al-Queda works is because it offers followers a chance to strike back at the invader/preceived oppressor in a highly effective and public manner."
Here's wondering when Nigeria was invaded/occupied by U.S. and to what extent a banker's sonny was opressed at London University College.
Not that they tought him at its engineering department how to effectively put more than his pants on fire.:)
Complain about this comment
It seems the presidnet's words are deserartely needed.
"last-minute kiss goodbye was responsible for a massive security scare at Newark's airport in New Jersey, a newspaper reported on Thursday.
Newark International went on high alert on Sunday, with huge delays for passengers, after an unidentified man was spotted in the "sterile" zone. He was not caught or even identified.
The Star-Ledger daily quoted security officials saying that videotape reveals the feared intruder was no more than a man wanting a last kiss from a departing woman.
He simply passed under a rope barrier and with the woman went "hand in hand toward the boarding area", the newspaper quotes the security officials and US Senator Frank Lautenberg as saying.
The embarrassing revelation follows the brief shutdown of Bakersfield airport in California on Tuesday when a passenger tried to bring five bottles on to the plane.
Explosives tests initially came back positive, police said, but in the end the substance turned out to be honey."
Thank god it wasn't vegimite! They would have gunned down the whole flight list.
"Yesterday two F-15 fighter jets scrambled to escort a Hawaiin Air flight back to Portland after a passenger caused a disturbance. The passenger was later released without charge"
Exactly what the two fighters were to do remains unanswered. Shoot the plane down and save any potential bomber the trouble?
Meanwhile while these hysterics over honey and kissing are taking place a suicidal crazy buys a gun and shoots down his workmates, easy peasy.
But this apprently is not terrorism and white Americans must not be subjected to comprehensive searches and pyscho profiles before begining work every morning.
Complain about this comment
Re CIA effectiveness or lack of it.
About 2 dozens of Taliban/alQaida "freedom fighters" died in Reapers' attacks just across the border from Khost base in the last 72 hours.
Complain about this comment
Simon – Last post on Tb part of the point of the programme (which I believe differs slightly from the novels) is that it deals with racism, vamps are treated badly even after legal recognition because they are vamps. Being blood sucking murderers might be justification in a way, but the treatment of the Other, in this case vamps, is the point. The treatment of vamps is the reason that the shifters have not made their presence known.
Soukie is treated badly and called names because she ‘sinning’ and having a cross racial love affair. I think bringing the slavery issue would have just complicated the matter, it is not relevant to the storyline. The whole retelling of Civil War was to reiterate Bill’s difference, he may look like a thirty something human, but in truth is over a hundred years old, it was done to reinforce the fact that he is the Other in their midst. Again this was a group of old biddies (the rest of the town turned up to gawp at the vamp) who are enamoured with what their granddaddies did in the war against the Yankees, I don’t think they would give two hoots about slavery, which would make the men they idolise look bad.
In the end it is an adaptation of a series of books mostly aimed at women who think vamps are sexy, not a dissection of American history. The TV programme just adds a bit of eye candy for the blokes. The amusing bit of course is once again the lead immortal is a Brit even though he’s playing a Southerner, which is why his accent wanders at times, you would have thought they could have found an American to play the role!
Right no more Tb posts from me, promise.
Complain about this comment
36. At 11:46am on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Al-Queda works is because it offers followers a chance to strike back at the invader/preceived oppressor in a highly effective and public manner."
Here's wondering when Nigeria was invaded/occupied by U.S. and to what extent a banker's sonny was opressed at London University College.
Not that they tought him at its engineering department how to effectively put more than his pants on fire.:)"
Here's wondering if gunning your workmates down over a pensions dispute is an acceptable method of negotiation for white US males?
Of course the crazie in this case did shoot himself. As is customary. in this sort of tradition.
Must have found the prospect of enternal bliss too enticing!
I blame the evangelicals for incitement :-(
Complain about this comment
Meanwhile Coptic Christians are killed on their Christmas Day in Egypt, and churches in Malaysia are being attacked.
For invading/opressing exactly whom?
Complain about this comment
"38. At 11:51am on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re CIA effectiveness or lack of it.
About 2 dozens of Taliban/alQaida "freedom fighters" died in Reapers' attacks just across the border from Khost base in the last 72 hours.
Wow. Two dozen! But where did they come from? Haven't the Taliban been wiped out every year since 2003?
Sorry :-) - some of us remember the "glorious victories" in Vietnam.
Taliban = Taliban, or school children or farmers or women.
Complain about this comment
"41. At 12:05pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Meanwhile Coptic Christians are killed on their Christmas Day in Egypt, and churches in Malaysia are being attacked.
For invading/opressing exactly whom?"
Maybe they were having works/pension meetings!
Or opening jars of honey.
Complain about this comment
PowerMeerkat – Well done, you win the prize, I was wondering how long it was before someone brought up the Malaysian church attacks! Shame that it has nothing to do with terrorism and more to do with an internal dispute between the judiciary support of a Catholic newspaper and a few conservative Muslims over the use of the word Allah. The newspaper, possibly inadvisably used the word Allah to describe God, which certain Muslims found offensive, probably just like some conservative Jews would have found the use of Yahweh offensive to describe the Christian God.
The courts in the Muslim country, however, did not agree it was offensive especially sine Arabic Christians used Allah before the rise of Islam. Some hotheads decided to show their disapproval of this decision by firebombing three churches, an act instantly criticised by the Muslim leader of the country and the main Muslim religious leaders.
Not sure what this has to do with main topic though. And with sentence I accept the pot/kettle award for this thread!
Complain about this comment
35. At 11:31am on 08 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
"Mark, I found this paragraph of yours to be sufficiently hysterical and rather chilling."
I can't see why; it should be fairly clear by now that many if us who have lived with the threat of being blown up (and some of whom may have been) find many of the reactions to the Detroit bomber just that: hysterical, and chilling.
There is all this handwringing panic about this terrible failure to stop the attempt before it began. But the real failure, the most important one, was the bomb itself.
It seems to have occurred to no-one that if the American system had notfailed there would have been a strong possibility the bomber might well have blown himself up at Schiphol and killed many people there had been an attempt to intercept him at that point.
The best airport security is surely to try to find a bomber before he even gets near one. But the hysteria (I honestly cannot find a more benign word to describe it) seems to have pushed that strategy so far into the background it's become invisible. Because it is much more difficult? Even with one list of half a million 'suspects' and another of 4,000 'too dangerous to be allowed to fly?
(And in the meantime, while the USA is distracted by all this, anger is fed among some of the very people Obama says the US must reach out to as another young teenager is killed in an air raid; and a policeman is killed by a bomb in Northern Ireland. Neither the result of 'Islamic terrorism'.)
Complain about this comment
39. At 11:53am on 08 Jan 2010, David Murrell wrote:
"vamps are treated badly even after legal recognition because they are vamps. Being blood sucking murderers might be justification. . ."
Phew. Thank goodness for the last sentence. You had me getting worried we might be forced to be nice to one there for a minute. I'd rather you'd been a teensy weensy bit more definite about the exception, though . . .
Complain about this comment
"45. At 12:17pm on 08 Jan 2010, squirrelist wrote:
35. At 11:31am on 08 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
"Mark, I found this paragraph of yours to be sufficiently hysterical and rather chilling."
I can't see why; it should be fairly clear by now that many if us who have lived with the threat of being blown up (and some of whom may have been) find many of the reactions to the Detroit bomber just that: hysterical, and chilling."
Unfortunately many in the US are prone to panic and hysteria - any history of lynching (which was carried out in fear of the minorities) shows you that.
It should never be forgotten that the US was founded in fear and practically each decade of its existence has seen great terror used as a political tool.
Witches, catholics, heretics, anarchists, syndaclists, commies(one of the biggest)and of course blacks (possibly the biggest - pace Obama's reference to his grandmother) have all played this role prompting hysterical overeaction and usually (in fact nearly always) the death of innocents.
Fear plays a useful role in democracies - it keeps the populace under control, turns tension on to minorities and stops any radical change
Complain about this comment
About 2 dozens of Taliban/alQaida "freedom fighters" died in Reapers' attacks just across the border from Khost base in the last 72 hours.
Wow. Two dozen! But where did they come from?
Why? Where they usually come from: Pakistani madrassas which keep churning out as much cannon fodder as needed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------"Predator-2", the sequel, already in movie theaters of Waziristan.
Complain about this comment
48. At 12:38pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
About 2 dozens of Taliban/alQaida "freedom fighters" died in Reapers' attacks just across the border from Khost base in the last 72 hours.
Wow. Two dozen! But where did they come from?
Why? Where they usually come from: Pakistani madrassas which keep churning out as much cannon fodder as needed."
Brillaint. Thanks for putting me straight.
One er question. Why is the US in Afghanistan then if they do not come from there? Isn't that the worng country? According to you?
Opps looks like the CIA is up to its usual standard.
Didn't Pakistan s develop a nuclear bomb under the CIA's nose?
Opps again.
Not doing very well are they? Oh Dear.
"Predator-2", the sequel, already in movie theaters of Waziristan."
Spying lesson no 1 - search suspects - please check your email for this before taking part in any field activity!!
Oh and remember to keep an eye out for jars of honey, and a suspiscious looking toy teddy bear.
Complain about this comment
Re #44 David Murrell wrote:
Not sure what this [Muslim attacks of churches in Malaysia] has to do with main topic though.
Just like Christmas attack on Coptic church in Egypt, part of a bigger picture: yet another example of typical tolerance displayed by some followers of a "great religion of peace".
Just like the destruction of historic Buddha statues in Afghanistan.
Or that recent assassination attempt in Denmark... Or..
Nah, don't want to clog the blog.
Complain about this comment
I must correct myself.
Didn't the chap "Top CIA Source" who blew up the leadership in Khost actually come from Jordan?
Not Afghanistan
Not Pakistan
Not Cleveland
Do you thik the CIA even know what country they are in?
Complain about this comment
This comment has been referred for further consideration. Explain
"Didn't Pakistan s develop a nuclear bomb under the CIA's nose?"
Nope. Pakistan has developed it under the nose and with a tacit approval
of ISI. And subsequently transfered the know-how to North Korea and Iran.
BTW. Work on the Iranian nuclear bomb has been conducted under the nose (and protection) of Quds Force.
And Kim Jong-il hasn't been sending CIA progress reports as often as the agency would wish.
[I guess too busy with is currency "reform".
Just like Ahmadinnerjacket is with printing even more gasoline coupons.]
Complain about this comment
48. powermeerkat:
Terrifying, isn't it? Enough to scare the pants off anybody the way you can find enemies everywhere you look.
Why not expand the scope of people to be frightened of? It looks a little limited to me, still. Why not be scared of the Basques, or Languedociens? Even the Manx. (A Manx independence group planted a bomb in a pillar box once.)
As Mark put it: "the most potent allies of the militants . . . are all those columnists and bloggers. . . who worry that the US is not being sufficiently hysterical."
:
Complain about this comment
Re# 45 Squirrelist says:
"The best airport security is surely to try to find a bomber before he even gets near one."
Not even that. The best defence is offence.
Every football or hockey coach knows that, although our Commader-in-Chief doesn't seem to.
[airport, harbor, metro etc., security is the very last line of defense]
On the other hand, to be fair, remember how harshly Mr. Omaba's predecessor had been criticized for promoting a strategy of preemptive strikes?
So I guess HBO, sorry.. BHO, has learnt the lesson.
Complain about this comment
Squirrelist asks:
Do you think the CIA even know what country they are in?
Judging be the effects of their Reapers's strikes (particularly the most recent ones) they get their coordinates about right.
BTW. I think the Company also knows that ibn Laden's family is originally from Yemen.
And where exactly some of his close relatives live in Iran.
I really worry what will happen if Mr. Panetta stops being Mr. Nice Guy.
[his own family is from Calabria]
Complain about this comment
Ref #55 PMK
I was going to note that no-one is actually disagreeing with what Obama said in this speech (I had a look at Fox news to make sure), but you just complained that he doesn't want to bomb anyone.
Prior to 9/11 al Quaeda was nowhere near as active as they are now. There were various embassy bombings, attacks on commuter planes while taking off etc, but they are now able to engage the US military on the battlefield and carrry out the same or a greater level of terrorist activity as previously.
On top of this, it became far far harder to run an illegal organisation when the Bush administration introduced legislation to seize money and restrict transactions that could be linked to terrorist organisations (credit where its due, that was a good move).
But despite this, the alienation of entire cultures, the occupation of lands that some consider sacred, and the shear oxygen of publicity that all out attack has generated, has greatly aided al Quaeda's cause by providing more potential recruits than they could ever have hoped for.
You want to go on the offensive? Bin Laden wants you to as well.
Complain about this comment
53. At 1:09pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Didn't Pakistan s develop a nuclear bomb under the CIA's nose?"
Nope. Pakistan has developed it under the nose and with a tacit approval
of ISI. And subsequently transfered the know-how to North Korea and Iran"
Really And isn't it the CIA's job to know this sorta thing?
And wasn't Pakistan a key US ally?. Didn't the CIA train the Pakistani security services?
What is the CIA's job again?
Plumbing?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
BTW. Work on the Iranian nuclear bomb has been conducted under the nose (and protection) of Quds Force."
Hmmm but the CIA doesn't think Iran has a bomb.
So are you contradicting yourself again?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And Kim Jong-il hasn't been sending CIA progress reports as often as the agency would wish."
Ah well thanks for that. The rest of us thought it was the CIA's job to find these things out.
No wonder they got crushed in Khost - the man didn't tell them first what he was going to do!
Cunning Devil!
"[I guess too busy with is currency "reform".
Just like Ahmadinnerjacket is with printing even more gasoline coupons.]"
I can't see a great career for you in the security services if you expect your opponents to send you "reports" on what they are doing.
Probably not a good idea to go in for the police or army either.
Just a tip!
Complain about this comment
Powermeerkat – So who should this offence be directed at? Who to protect America, should America hit? A country because they maybe financing terrorism, or an ill defined international organisation whose cell nature means that members in the same country may not know who else is a member?
If we expand this further should India or Pakistan blow the hell out of each other? After all each sees the other as a major threat. Was Al Qaeda right in attacking the US first, since a good attack is the best defence? They knew that under the neo cons eventually they would be targeted, so under your ‘logic’ 9/11 could be justified.
Anyway ‘attack is the best form of defence’ is bull anyway, sure in some circumstances it works: if there is no consequence to your attack like in sport, if you know who is actually threatening you, if you are at least as big as the other guy, better is your bigger.
The problem is that if the US goes after to many Muslim targets, as the arm chair generals suggest, you fail on all three parts: there is a consequence your young men and women die in a foreign field, Al Qaeda is so ill defined that you don’t know where all of them are, eventually if you keep swinging at Muslims they will come to realise that the US is really their enemy and their numbers outweigh yours somewhat.
Sometimes the best defence is talking to people, sometimes the best defence is avoiding the conflict or deflecting the blows. A simplistic ‘oh gee that guys looking at me funny, I’m going smash his teeth down his throat’ is not a good starting point for international diplomacy.
Complain about this comment
56. At 1:36pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Squirrelist asks:
Do you think the CIA even know what country they are in?
Judging be the effects of their Reapers's strikes (particularly the most recent ones) they get their coordinates about right."
Do they? So the bombing of schools is deliberate then.
That makes them terrorists in your definition doesn't it?
Bit harsh
Opps!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
BTW. I think the Company also knows that ibn Laden's family is originally from Yemen.
Is that so. I think the rest of the world has known that for 20 years. Maybe they needed a report from him!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And where exactly some of his close relatives live in Iran.
Yes one of them had a public wedding recently.
How can I put this gently? Toughie
Spies are supposed to know more than the obvious. Using google doesn't really count
They are supposed to know what country they are in and to search people for example without being told.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really worry what will happen if Mr. Panetta stops being Mr. Nice Guy.2"
I am sure he will not sack or arrest more operatives than is necessary. (I would arrest a number of the Khost survivors and have them interrogated).
Of course that may be 80% of the "company"
But when a company has been selling shoddy goods some shakeout must be expected.
Complain about this comment
54. At 1:17pm on 08 Jan 2010, squirrelist wrote:
48. powermeerkat:
Terrifying, isn't it? Enough to scare the pants off anybody the way you can find enemies everywhere you look."
Especially US males with a "grievance". Practically every second week sees some lunatic in tha t country gunning people down
Complain about this comment
Re: Meerkat's bigger picture:
Two additional terrorists have been just arrested in U.S. in conection with a plot to conduct a bombing atack in NYC:
Adis Medunjanin and Zarein Ahmedzay.
Let me make an educated guess: Buddhists?
Complain about this comment
If you want to hurt groups like Al Qaeda you starve them, you cut their cash flow and when something like Detroit happens you simply say ‘an emotionally disturbed foreign national made a failed amateur attempt to blow up a plane.’ You don’t go running around screeching ‘oh our security measures failed’ or ‘this was an Al Qaeda based attack’ or ‘we must make security measures stricter’. Behind closed doors you might say these things and you take the necessary measures to ensure this security fiasco doesn’t happen again, but you don’t give Al Qaeda any credit or column inches instead you starve them of what they need most – recognition and publicity.
I am sure with all these highly trained spies America can spin out a story that means any media attention gets diverted, if not then your subterfuge train stinks. The next time a tape comes in apparently from Bin Laden, just have the CIA laugh it off, they are good at lying (if Bin Laden isn’t, as I suspect, already dead).
Complain about this comment
62. At 2:01pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re: Meerkat's bigger picture:
Two additional terrorists have been just arrested in U.S. in conection with a plot to conduct a bombing atack in NYC:
Adis Medunjanin and Zarein Ahmedzay.
Let me make an educated guess: Buddhists?"
No they were upset at their pension arrangments!
Wonder if they were searched before being interogated?
Complain about this comment
Powermeerkat - A police officer in Ulster was injured today when the bomb under his car went off. Shall we play guess the religion and denomination of that one. Hint: probably not Buddhist either.
Complain about this comment
63. At 2:01pm on 08 Jan 2010, David Murrell wrote:
If you want to hurt groups like Al Qaeda you starve them, you cut their cash flow and when something like Detroit happens you simply say ‘an emotionally disturbed foreign national made a failed amateur attempt to blow up a plane.’ You don’t go running around screeching ‘oh our security measures failed’ or ‘this was an Al Qaeda based attack’ or ‘we must make security measures stricter’. Behind closed doors you might say these things and you take the necessary measures to ensure this security fiasco doesn’t happen again, but you don’t give Al Qaeda any credit or column inches instead you starve them of what they need most – recognition and publicity."
Yanks always think in terms of internation conspiracies. Its their mind set.
All commies were conncted, even if they were fighting each other!
Al Queda may not even exist, its just a name.
You do not need a massive international organisation to make a crude bomb, the Irish have been doing it for decades.
You do not need to be clever to work out that flying a plane into a building will cause terror.
But the US needs a bogeyman.
AS for OBL, who cares? AS you say he could have died five years ago.
George Orwell explained this in 1984 with BB, who might or might not exist like Goldstein.
Complain about this comment
56. At 1:36pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Squirrelist asks: Do you think the CIA even know what country they are in?"
No I didn't.
Wrong target.
(What delicious irony one can find in just two words!)
Complain about this comment
62. At 2:01pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re: Meerkat's bigger picture:
Bomb blast leaves police officer seriously injured in Northern Ireland"
Oh dear terrorist attack.
What's your guess about the religion of the terrorists who carried out this outrage?
Moslem? Hmmm not sure
Complain about this comment
Re Iranian bomb...
I'm not paid here to give lectures but ATTEMPTING to build a nuclear bomb doesn't mean that you can accomplish the task.
[and you know who you are]
The problem is that, if one does not have a gas diffusion technology, one has to churn (literally) that uranium 235 in many thousands of cascaded centrifuges.
In order to enrich it all the way up to 90% plus.
Which takes time. And effort. And money.
Then, you have to "weaponize" it, which, for madrassas graduates, means that you have to take a cumbersome device weighing several tones and not only reduce its size significantly so that you (and you know who you are) can put it on a missile, but also make it withstand powerful vibrations occurring during the lauch of an ICBM or IRBM so that "device" 's internal components are not damaged.
Moreover, you (and you know who you are) have to build a reliable detonator. [Nigerian banker's sonny's fiasco shows it's not that easy if you have na IQ of a scallop].
And on top of that, you have to have a high quality on-board navigational software and hardware reliable enough not to cause the whole shebang make a Big Bang in, let's say, Tehran. Or Moscow. Or Beijing. :-)
And since you cannot possibly build it, and can't buy it, you (and you know who you are) would have to steal it. And in a large quantity.
[so far you, and you know who you are, can't even lay you paws on used jet engines for Shah's era F14s, hard as you try :-)]
I can assure you (and you know who you are) that before you reach weaponization stage you'll be no more.
And ff you don't believe me, just continue to do what you're doing in Busher, Ishfahan, Natanz, Qum and couple of other places.
Go ahead! Make our day! :-)
Complain about this comment
62. At 2:01pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Re: Meerkat's bigger picture:
Two additional terrorists have been just arrested in U.S. in conection with a plot to conduct a bombing atack in NYC"
After they had been given away last September (by an FBI 'informant', or 'double agent' then charged with 'making false statements') as having been associated with a 'plotter' who has admitted only to receiving some kind of training in2008 and was not found, apparently, in possession of anything even remotely resembling a bomb or anything else.
What a truly awesome conspiracy! And what timing!
Complain about this comment
69. At 2:30pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re Iranian bomb...
I'm not paid here to give lectures but ATTEMPTING to build a nuclear bomb doesn't mean that you can accomplish the task.
[and you know who you are]"
No and not building a bomb doesn't mean you can accomplish it either. Does it.
Lack of evidence is not evidence old bean.
You certaily need a lecture in basic thinking.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is that, if one does not have a gas diffusion technology, one has to churn (literally) that uranium 235 in many thousands of cascaded centrifuges.
In order to enrich it all the way up to 90% plus.
Which takes time. And effort. And money.
Which makes it all the nmore surprising that Pakistan did this under the noses of the CIA
Isn't it?
Not much of a spying org if they couldn't spot this.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Then, you have to "weaponize" it, which, for madrassas graduates, means that you have to take a cumbersome device weighing several tones and not only reduce its size significantly so that you (and you know who you are) can put it on a missile, but also make it withstand powerful vibrations occurring during the lauch of an ICBM or IRBM so that "device" 's internal components are not damaged.
Wow really. That is if you want to use a missile as delivery.
There are other delivery systems aren't there.
Again missed by the CIA.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moreover, you (and you know who you are) have to build a reliable detonator. [Nigerian banker's sonny's fiasco shows it's not that easy if you have na IQ of a scallop].
And on top of that, you have to have a high quality on-board navigational software and hardware reliable enough not to cause the whole shebang make a Big Bang in, let's say, Tehran. Or Moscow. Or Beijing. :-)
Hmmm not really got the grasp of this thing have you.
"High quality software" Right dating from 1950.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And since you cannot possibly build it, and can't buy it, you (and you know who you are) would have to steal it. And in a large quantity.
[so far you, and you know who you are, can't even lay you paws on used jet engines for Shah's era F14s, hard as you try :-)]
Hmmm so you trust the Russian republics not to sell the technology.
Oh dear.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can assure you (and you know who you are) that before you reach weaponization stage you'll be no more."
Yes after all look what happened to Pakistan and North Korea ;-)
"And ff you don't believe me, just continue to do what you're doing in Busher, Ishfahan, Natanz, Qum and couple of other places."
And we will howl, get it wrong and do nothing. Unless of course the Russians give us permission.
And that isn't going to happen.
Complain about this comment
Re # 65 David and squirrelist re N. Ireland
Suum quique. Everyone has their own cross to bear.
Take care of yours.
We'll take car of ours. Viribus unitis.
P.S. I already explained that meerkats don't target squirrels.
For at least two reasons.
[The second being that TRUE socialists are endangered species and should be protected at all cost]
Complain about this comment
To add to 70:
A young man was charged last year, with a bomb plot, I recall. It turned out that the person who 'recruited' him, encouraged him, helped to find a location and provided the 'bomb' (though one that would not detonate) was an FBI agent.
Isn't the possibility of a real terrorist bombing risk enough without the FBI actually effectively radicalising someone, then planning and helping to execute it?
Complain about this comment
#4, comment appreciated as I well agree.
Would like to recommend a book to interested readers, particularly the American variety; as it is primarily WE to whom it applies, though the concepts are universally applicable. "The Paranoia Switch", Dr. Martha Stout.
She makes some excellent points from what appears to be a solid clinical standpoint and explains them well for lay people. As opposed, for instance, to the people living in Palestine, where acts of 'terrorism' are a frequent occurrence; to the unrestrained fear and paranoia which too many of the US population have succumbed post 9/11 disproportionate to the actual threat. She relates this to what is essentially a PTSD phenomenon; and points out that our population has not yet 'adapted' to the experience and become therefore able to address the 'terrorism' threat to the entire US population reasonably and without undue paranoia. Additionally, 'paranoia' is 'catching'. Literally. In a very real sense, actually a 'limbic' war; a similar sort of psychological phenomenon we witness in other examples of mass group hysteria.
The sort of death we witnessed during 9/11---not only was it sudden and unexpected--which is what people are basically reacting to--it was not due to an act of G-d such as the weather---but due instead, to other human beings. From a more rational perspective; only the density of population combined with the innate structural weakness of the Towers resulted in the high death toll. Combined with the unexpectedness that an aircraft could or would be hijacked and used as a weapon; and the likelihood THAT scenario COULD be repeated has lessoned because now we are AWARE of that particular threat.
The US is distinctly different from Europe in the sense that we have MOST of our population spread out across literally HUNDREDS of square miles and do not depend on public transportation nearly to the degree that most of Europe does...in many areas, it just simply isn't available because the population density and demand just isn't there.
Cutting my ramblings short...the basic point is that on an individual level; the personal threat that any imagined would be 'terrorist' poses to our bodily safety is very, very small; statistically speaking. We are much more likely to die in a car crash...or even a be a victim of a domestic murder than to be killed by a 'terrorist'.
The level of fear is disproportionate to the actual threat.
The fear that exists in some areas that these 'terrorists' from Guantanimo would pose to the population if they were housed here strikes me as almost bizarre. As though they would somehow be omnipotent IF they ever escaped, creating untold death and destruction in their wake. IF they are housed here in the US with other US prisoners; my guess is that they will do well to survive a US prison atmosphere without being murdered by the nationals. IF one escapes in his prison uniform, he isn't going to escape with enriched uranium or a bomb. He'll more likely be as naked and vulnerable as the day he was born in unknown territory with many enemies armed and ready to track him down and blow his head off.
These chickensquawks as well as the clinically paranoid Mr. Cheney greatly underestimate the resolve and capability of many of us. As well as the fact that many of us civilian rednecks across the country would be itching at the chance to help hunt the escapee down and would have no compunction about using their guns or whatever weapon presented.
Complain about this comment
" Unless of course the Russians give us permission."
Who are those Russians you (and you know who you are) keep bringing up?
[though not as often as "US white males" who must have hurt you a lot]
The ones who gave us (U.S.) permission to win the Cold War and to dump USSR on the ashheap of history?
Phhhlease, stop. I can get hernia from laughter. :-))))))))))))))))))))))
Complain about this comment
63. At 2:01pm on 08 Jan 2010, David Murrell wrote:
"If you want to hurt groups like Al Qaeda you starve them, you cut their cash flow and when something like Detroit happens you simply say ‘an emotionally disturbed foreign national made a failed amateur attempt to blow up a plane.’ You don’t go running around screeching ‘oh our security measures failed’ or ‘this was an Al Qaeda based attack’ or ‘we must make security measures stricter’. Behind closed doors you might say these things and you take the necessary measures to ensure this security fiasco doesn’t happen again, but you don’t give Al Qaeda any credit or column inches instead you starve them of what they need most – recognition and publicity."
Dayum right!!!!
The bigger problems in the US are the press and political drama queens giving 'terrorists' more credit than they deserve. I personally can't believe the coverage wasn't instead similar to 'terrorist failure! stupid African burns his balls off"
Complain about this comment
72. At 2:52pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re # 65 David and squirrelist re N. Ireland
Suum quique. Everyone has their own cross to bear.
Take care of yours.
We'll take car of ours. Viribus unitis."
But we won't answer the question because we are too frightened to admit nice christians like us can be terrorists too.
That woould undercut a lot of what we have said.
"[The second being that TRUE socialists are endangered species and should be protected at all cost]"
Ignorant bigots however are very plentiful and its open season :-)
"Now sir, what's the problem with your pension arrangments again"
Complain about this comment
73. At 2:52pm on 08 Jan 2010, squirrelist wrote:
To add to 70:
A young man was charged last year, with a bomb plot, I recall. It turned out that the person who 'recruited' him, encouraged him, helped to find a location and provided the 'bomb' (though one that would not detonate) was an FBI agent.
Isn't the possibility of a real terrorist bombing risk enough without the FBI actually effectively radicalising someone, then planning and helping to execute it?"
No surprise.
Under the drunken, vicious, tranvestite Hoover, FBI membership kept the US Communist party afloat
Complain about this comment
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-martha-stout/george-bushs-paranoia-war_b_67392.html
Complain about this comment
75. At 3:10pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
" Unless of course the Russians give us permission."
Who are those Russians you (and you know who you are) keep bringing up?
[though not as often as "US white males" who must have hurt you a lot]"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope white males in my area do not shoot up their colleagues like yours.
Russia is a country to the North of Iran.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The ones who gave us (U.S.) permission to win the Cold War and to dump USSR on the ashheap of history?
Phhhlease, stop. I can get hernia from laughter. :-))))))))))))))))))))))"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hysterical laughter?
No I mean the country that conquered the US ally Georgia (without a peep from the US), told the US to get out of Poland.
In each case the US obeyed like a whipped dog.
There will no nuclear attack on Iran because Russia will not allow it. Russia's borders are sacrosanct and it is a nuclear power.
Simple.
Why do you think Pres Ahminejad ignores the US threats and goes on his merry way with never a worry :-)).
Complain about this comment
Good to hear a President that takes responsibility after 8 years of listening to one whose greatest attribute was to pass the buck, but nothing President Obama says will make a difference to those that after listening to the Cairo speech when President Obama said he would not apologize for the actions taken by the USA turned around and accused him of going on an apology tour, or those that after President Obama refocused our attention on those responsible for 9/11 accused him of being an appeaser.
Judging by the reaction of relatives and neighbors, I can't say too many Americans are consumed by fear because of Abdulmutallab's failed terrorist attempt...except for the media and our politicians in Washington who suddenly found a new excuse to transform themselves into saviors, accusers, critics and executioners.
What will make a difference in November is not Abdulmutallab, whose existance will soon be forgotten, but the state of our economy and the level of unemployment in the USA, and by the looks of it we got a long way to go before significant improvements in those areas are evident to the average citizen.
Healthcare reform is likely to remain an albatros around the neck of Democrats, if nothing else because the insurance industry and its supporters will continue to portray it as totalitarian legislation imposed on the American people against our will, but I would not be surprised if it becomes a marginal issue when compared to the state of the economy and unemployment. Illegal immigration will dutifully reappear in months to come to help create a climate of near hysteria by suggesting the impending end of our utopian society, and abortion will no doubt become a litmus test once again.
President Obama should focus his attention on what matters most to the American people...and looking macho is not it.
Complain about this comment
Powermeerkat – I ignored your squirrel baiting natural history error, there are plenty of squirrels in Africa, the bush squirrel and red bellied coast squirrel are both squirrel species found in southern Africa and look like American/European squirrel species. This ignores the flying squirrel or anomalure, which is not actually a squirrel and ground squirrels.
I see you did not make a guess on the Irish bomber! If you deal with your issues and us ours why did you ask us to guess the religion of the NY bombers? Shocking geography lesson for you but NY is in North America, which I believe makes it yours. Since I don’t follow your logic, I will guess the two people charged were…… Hindus? No, Sikh? No, Scientologists? No…….. wait a minute are you suggesting they may have been Muslims!?!
Complain about this comment
#3, I agree mostly
Though I do not relish the Obama Presidency in any way shape or form as thus far, I must say that him wanting to maintain liberites that keep us away from that "seige mentality" is definitly a step in the correct direction.
And I definitly agree with that air detonation comment.
Complain about this comment
Ref 70 squirrelist-
"What a truly awesome conspiracy! And what timing!"
Nutter! Are you suggesting that this incident is being used as a propaganda tool?! The FBI would never do such a thing! ;-)
Ref 73
"A young man was charged last year, with a bomb plot, I recall. It turned out that the person who 'recruited' him, encouraged him, helped to find a location and provided the 'bomb' (though one that would not detonate) was an FBI agent."
Back in the late 1960's there was an anti-war protest planning meeting, attended by 8 people, being conducted by the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). Two of the attendees were known (by the SDS) to be FBI undercover agents. A third person was also a known "Red Squad" undercover State Police agent. The three of them kept advocating a violent protest throughout the planning of a peaceful protest. Even offered to bring in some "people" they knew who could incite the crowd into violence. These were government agents advocating the destruction of property, and personal injury.
Complain about this comment
81. At 3:30pm on 08 Jan 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
What will make a difference in November is not Abdulmutallab, whose existance will soon be forgotten, but the state of our economy and the level of unemployment in the USA, and by the looks of it we got a long way to go before significant improvements in those areas are evident to the average citizen. !"
Good point. The vast tidal majority of people in the US, UK etc are not in the slightest concerned with Afghanistan etc but whether they will have a job.
Complain about this comment
Once again you've gotten it all wrong, Mark! America is not frightened by the Detroit non-event. The already low airline stocks went down 2% but it was basically a yawn. I am no sure Americans would be "terrorized" by an aircraft bombing. It was the horror of flying the planes into buildings that impressed, a bomb in a plane is a Hollywood movie scenario that has been done to death.
You are right to point out that Obama loves to criticize his oponents from the bully pulpit. He took advantage of this non-event to poke fun at Cheney. The point is, when Obama says "we are at war with Al Quada" it is just empty talk. By deliberately avoiding the word "terrorism" he plays a Chomskyesque game of pretending that we can't fight abstractions. By naming Al Qada he names "the enemy" when in fact Al Qada "affiliation" is an increasingly meaningless term.
Obama rattles the sabre about Yemen, but the US dare not put boots on the ground in Yemen. The Yemenese government is already armed to the teeth but that is necessary just for them to maintain their grip on power. They are not going to run out and stir up tribal warfare at the US's bidding but they will exploit the US to even some old scores of their own.
Obama is weak on all fronts. The CIA debacle in Khost compromised the entire CIA effort in AFPAK. Our troops are serving as place-holders while we prepare for drone warfare (without the aid of intelligence). He's making dirty backroom deals with India and Pakistan the details of which will emerge on BBC and the Guardian long before they appear in the US press.
Obama is vicious! He will have more than harsh words for his critics. He plays Chicago politics.
Complain about this comment
Publiusdetroit – Back in the day (early 90’s) I went on a few protest marches, mostly against the UK Criminal Justice Bill, 90% of the marchers were there for a peaceful protest the remaining 10% were split between anarchists and undercover policemen. After a couple of marches you could tell them from the other marchers, woolly hats that were obviously balaclavas were a give away and normally which were anarchists and which weren’t. Sadly these things are not uncommon.
Complain about this comment
#85 Simon 21
Good point. The vast tidal majority of people in the US, UK etc are not in the slightest concerned with Afghanistan etc but whether they will have a job.
_____________
Yes people probably do care about whether or not they have a job more than any of the external conflicts going on. But for those with job security or at least think they have job security, external issues could be an issue.
I myself have time to ponder issues and I though I think the economy should be the first issue to be tackled (not by throwing imaginary money at it) I do believe that afghanistan and any other conflict we are in is important for the simple reason that we succeed. If we don't we lose credibility (not that we havn't already but it would be worse) and also if we lose our proxy wars then the fight will come home to us, we are not fighting other nations where we can just destroy there means to fight and capture the capital, we are fighting cell based terrorist groups, you must kill all of them to make them stop. And they themselves have said many times that they want to take the fight home to us. So it is in our best interest to exterminate them with extreme prejudice.
Complain about this comment
I do not agree with everything Obama is doing, but as a famous American writer once wrote(I think Mark Twain),
"Support your country all of your time and your leader only when he deserves it."
Complain about this comment
To Amarus #88
"So it is in our best interest to exterminate them with extreme prejudice"
How do you target them? (see post #12)
Complain about this comment
Re #82 David!
Wow, David. I knew you were not exactly zoologically challenged, let alone HBO-challenged [btw. I, for one, didn't think that your posts re vampires were off topic dealing with jihadists] but how did you guess that I would guess U.S. bomber wannabies' religious affiliation correctly? :-))).
The major problem we have to deal with, though, is not a couple of Catholic loonies, or even Anglican loonies - there's one Archbishop who seems to think that "introducing some Sharia laws to U.K. would increase social harmony in that country" - but much numerable loonies of another persuasion.
[you won't find their kind on Nobel science prizes list for last 100 yrs]
Of course, if we want to be PC we can pretend that they do not exist.
But wishful thinking does not make it a reality.
Just like wishful thinking of those dinosaurs who believed that Moscow would come to their rescue while antagonizing Washington(cf. beliefs of Serbian jingoists) or would deliver them weapon systems Washington didn't like them to have did not make their dreams come true.(cf. "Arctic Sea" embarrassing snafu)
P.S. as I've already said squirrelist is an endangered species.
You won't find them in ANC, let alone in Botswana or Nabibia.
[been to both to visit some relatives in Kalahari]
Let alone in Mojave. :-)
Complain about this comment
Re:62 Meerkat's bigger picture:
Two additional terrorists have been just arrested in U.S. in conection with a plot to conduct a bombing atack in NYC:
Adis Medunjanin and Zarein Ahmedzay.
Let me make an educated guess: Buddhists?
...................
I think you will find they are Americans or at least one of them is. in fact it seems that America is producing a lot of terrorists..
I believe a dozen or so were arrested in Pakistan recently after leaving the US to fight Jihad and not forgetting the Fort Hood killer an American and a Major..
what's the solution?? should the US bomb the US..
PS I've been reading these blogs for sometime now ( British wife, US parents,thought this might help in my understanding of them) and now that I have retired from the IDF.. I Feel free to join in the debate.. probably being the only Israeli here I expect my share of scorn ;)
Complain about this comment
#Re 84
Hey, publisudetroit?
How are things in Dearborn?
I hear the neigborhood has changed a lot since I was there last time (ca 25 yrs ago)? ;-)
Complain about this comment
#87
Here's wondering, David, whether you also voted in a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, and if not allowed to vote, whether you've organized any protest march? :-)
Complain about this comment
@81 (StD): "Judging by the reaction of relatives and neighbors, I can't say too many Americans are consumed by fear because of Abdulmutallab's failed terrorist attempt...except for the media and our politicians in Washington who suddenly found a new excuse to transform themselves into saviors, accusers, critics and executioners."
Good comments as usual. The media is trying desperately to survive, and will do whatever they have to, and say whatever they have to, to bring in new revenue. As the son of a newspaperman, it's hard to write that, but there it is. Meanwhile, the partisans of all stripes have finished packaging this as another front in the Cold Civil War, and are now waiting for a new event to do the same with.
For the rest of us, the real problems (some of which you identified) continue to become more and more severe...
Wonder where all the folks are who might support a 3rd party...a duopoly isn't serving our interests very much any longer. It's just like choosing between Verizon and Comcast: Both have packages, and I like aspects of both, but I can't choose just the parts of either one that I support. If I choose one or the other, I'm buying the whole package--never mind that most of both packages are useless at best and harmful at worst.
Complain about this comment
91. At 4:23pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re #82 David!
Wow, David. I knew you were not exactly zoologically challenged, let alone HBO-challenged [btw. I, for one, didn't think that your posts re vampires were off topic dealing with jihadists] but how did you guess that I would guess U.S. bomber wannabies' religious affiliation correctly? :-)))."
No the question was Northern Ireland and we are all still awaiting
Scared? :-0
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
The major problem we have to deal with, though, is not a couple of Catholic loonies, or even Anglican loonies - there's one Archbishop who seems to think that "introducing some Sharia laws to U.K. would increase social harmony in that country" - but much numerable loonies of another persuasion.
Placing a bomb in a police car is sensible to you? Quite a lot christian Loonies though.
The Lord's resistance Army - what lord do they follow? Ah yes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, if we want to be PC we can pretend that they do not exist.
But wishful thinking does not make it a reality."
Wishfully believing all terrorists are moslems? Rile someone over their pension and that will get you killed in the US.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just like wishful thinking of those dinosaurs who believed that Moscow would come to their rescue while antagonizing Washington(cf. beliefs of Serbian jingoists) or would deliver them weapon systems Washington didn't like them to have did not make their dreams come true.(cf. "Arctic Sea" embarrassing snafu)"
Or that US wideboy who beleived Washington would support him as a US ally if Russia invaded.
Was he ever wrong. Washington didn't even send a policeman or gun crazy.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S. as I've already said squirrelist is an endangered species.
You won't find them in ANC, let alone in Botswana or Nabibia.
[been to both to visit some relatives in Kalahari]
Wow, you'll find moslems in both though eh!!!!
Complain about this comment
94. At 4:36pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
#87
Here's wondering, David, whether you also voted in a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, and if not allowed to vote, whether you've organized any protest march? :-)"
Here's wondering if you are searching your white compatriots to seeif they want to "discuss" their pension arrangements.
Complain about this comment
92. At 4:23pm on 08 Jan 2010, strontiumdog007 wrote:
PS I've been reading these blogs for sometime now ( British wife, US parents,thought this might help in my understanding of them) and now that I have retired from the IDF.. I Feel free to join in the debate.. probably being the only Israeli here I expect my share of scorn ;)"
Hmmm you have forgotten the white terrorist who shot his workmates than killed himself in the Old US tradition.
Complain about this comment
Re#92
Welcome strontiumdog007!
Greeting from cobalt60meerkat!
I've always believed that besides USAF, IAF is the only reliable express air delivery service i the world.
["When it absolutely, positively has to be there over night" :-)]
P.S. Not a dozen - 5. BTW. Also quite a few British subjects go to Pakistan to get their higher education. And return born-again.
BTW I just hope that Pakistan will not "rendition" them back to U.S.
Complain about this comment
Powereerkat – No we were never given a referendum, as I believe you well know. As for protest marches I gave those up when I realised that they didn’t actually achieve anything and were normally railroaded by someone wanting a fight. These days I work in an environment where my bosses would not look kindly on me being arrested at a demo and I earn too much money to risk it on a stupid march. Anyway I am not anti the Treaty also not in huge favour of referendums we vote people into office to do a job not to keep asking us how to do that job. If enough of the general public disagree they can make their voices heard, such as the recent anti-capitalism demos in London.
Actually I did get sort of involved with those, only as a bystander and I think if I had been in my suit most of the demonstrators would have assumed I was the enemy!
Complain about this comment
99. At 4:57pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re#92
Welcome strontiumdog007!
Greeting from cobalt60meerkat!
I've always believed that besides USAF, IAF is the only reliable express air delivery service i the world."
Sadly however both forces have essentially failed in their central objectives.
One proved incapable of ending a struggle for independence the other hasn't operated successfully for over 10 years.
Complain about this comment
I'd be more impressed with Mr. Obama's speech if the commander in chief had interrupted his holiday in Hawaii to respond to the latest attack by Al Qaeda when it happened instead of waiting a week until he returned to Washington. It undercuts his claims to be taking the war against Al Qaeda seriously when he decides a frolic in the sun is more important than responding to an attack on the American people.
Obama's acceptance of responsibility while dodging any accountability was politics at it's finest but hardly what people expect from the president after a screw-up of this magnitude. Must people actually die before government officials responsible for their safety are held to account for their failures?
When Harry Truman said the buck stops here he meant it, it wasn't an empty phrase to "sound presidential". Truman would have had some heads for this kind of a screwup, he had served in combat and he understood leadership and responsibility. Obama isn't even remotely in Truman's league.
Complain about this comment
"Russia's sacrosant borders"...:-)))
Tell that to hundreds of thousands Chinese who have been crossing it for decades now with total impunity, conducting peaceful reconquista of historical Manchuria, while gen./pres./prem. Gazputin has been desperately trying not to notice the phenomenon, because otherwise his powerful Federation would have to challenge Chinese Peoples Liberation Army. :-)
It's better not to look to the East, but to invent a threat from the "U.S. white males" who can hurt mightily by attacking from behind.
[from the West, that is.]
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Re #100 David Murrell wrote: If enough of the general public disagree they can make their voices heard, such as the recent anti-capitalism demos in London.
So it means that LABOUR Party is going to win next election hands down?
P.S. I hope the the current heat wave in UK (obviously a result of the man-made global warming) does not incovenience you too much?
If it does - you're welcome in Mojave! :-)
Complain about this comment
At 5:04pm on 08 Jan 2010, Simon21 wrote:
99. At 4:57pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
Re#92
Welcome strontiumdog007!
Greeting from cobalt60meerkat!
I've always believed that besides USAF, IAF is the only reliable express air delivery service i the world."
I think you do our US Navy and Marine Corps aviators an injustice. Our carrier pilots have an excellent record of on time and on target deliveries and their mobility gives them an ability to expand quickly into new markets that the USAF sometimes lacks.
If you've got heavy lifting that needs doing the USAF is clearly the air delivery service of choice but if you have an unexpected need to deliver a package in a hurry don't overlook the folks at Carrier Express.
Complain about this comment
What?
Could it be?
Do we? Could we? Might we have a President who makes precedent?
A President who stands up, stands firm, takes responsibility and makes commitments? What a concept. This is good.
As for the 'Stopping Buck': Truman's phrase has come to stand for 'standing firm and making an unwavering stance on something'.
What is the President standing for?
-- making a positive and effective change in our security.
Will this actually happen?
-- Um... Well... Er... Golly. I really hope so.
Unfortunately, our collective 'United States*' have a strong long-standing tradition of using pomp, circumstance, big guns and intimidation for security... and fat bulls don't fight well against angry little piranha.
I await with baited breath the eventual outcome on these matters.
________
* Another Oxymoron? Hmmmmm....
Complain about this comment
102; Scott, it has been remarked in the press that it took GWBJR SEVEN days to address the shoebomber guy on the plane whereas Obama addresses within THREE and people suffering from political and press amnesia don't see the ludicrousness of their own perspective compared to actual history.
We as a nation and the voting public have got to begin using our noggins for critical thinking instead of being pawns to the latest biased news piece whether it comes from the dubious 'mainstream' drama press seeking to win public attention or from political arenas that have no interest in the whole truth of anything.
What do we the American public want and expect? Arnold playing the Terminator? What could anybody have possibly SAID that day that would have made a real difference to ANY of us except those that want one more excuse to find fault with the current administration? Seriously.
Complain about this comment
Ref #102 Scott0962
The delay in reponse to the air attack was an attempt to down play its importance. It's a tactic designed move al Quaeda away from the forefront of public consciousness and deny them and their cause publicity. A strategems go, it's quite subtle. Something we didn't see under the last administration.
Even then Obama managed to respond in 3 days, which is half Dubya's response time to the shoe bomber incident. Why was this not an issue at the time?
The only people insisting this is a crisis are republicans, who have spent the last week publicly attacking a sitting president in what they are calling a time of crisis. A very different approach to the fanatical cries of traitor that we heard from them in the face of much less vociferous criticism of Bush at any time between 9/11 and the end of 2002.
Scott, this is clearly an attempt to make political gain out of an attempted terrorist attack by tapping into the hystrical type of reaction you just enunciated.
Complain about this comment
103. At 5:20pm on 08 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Russia's sacrosant borders"...:-)))
Tell that to hundreds of thousands Chinese who have been crossing it for decades now with total impunity, conducting peaceful reconquista of historical Manchuria, while gen./pres./prem. Gazputin has been desperately trying not to notice the phenomenon, because otherwise his powerful Federation would have to challenge Chinese Peoples Liberation Army. :-)"
Nah tell it to the Georgians.
When did the US last invade a country of Georgia's size, completely defeat its US equipped and trained army/airforce and detach whole chunks of its territory. And all this in five days.
While remaining a key "American Ally". :-0
So Iran has nothing to fear until Putin gives permission. Which he is unlikely to to since it keeps the US hoping like a prawn on a griddle - and Russian oil prices go up.
"It's better not to look to the East, but to invent a threat from the "U.S. white males" who can hurt mightily by attacking from behind. "
Oh so the victims of the latest shooter were "invented" were they? Wouldn't say that to their families!
Complain about this comment
102. At 5:13pm on 08 Jan 2010, Scott0962 wrote:
I'd be more impressed with Mr. Obama's speech if the commander in chief had interrupted his holiday in Hawaii to respond to the latest attack by Al Qaeda when it happened instead of waiting a week until he returned to Washington. It undercuts his claims to be taking the war against Al Qaeda seriously when he decides a frolic in the sun is more important than responding to an attack on the American people."
One of the American people shot four other American people dead.
Should he have returned for that as well? Or do these lives not count?
Complain about this comment
Dearest Mr. Squirrel Nutkin,
RE "Since three thousand people died in New York, many more innocent people have died; I think I would have respected him more had he made some mention of those who have been murdered outside the USA too. ( #1 )
Agreed. I hear that.
Please note that this was a huge PR event in order to remind our conservative, paranoid, xenophobic majority that their President has balls and will travel.
Perhaps, if this were a speech to the international community 1-2 years from now (when War Dust is settling)... we will hear this side of the matter.
See - he's kind of working on ending a war with a moving target that's been shat upon for almost a decade. This ain't pretty for their children or for ours. Gun-owning parents have lost children in both hemispheres and as a mother, I am not without fear for my sons.
Obama's speaking to American Moms today.
I pray that Afghan/Iraqi Moms will someday hear an apology...
-- but that will not happen until we withdraw our klusterFk from Active Ops.
Complain about this comment
106. At 5:39pm on 08 Jan 2010, Scott0962 wrote:
"If you've got heavy lifting that needs doing the USAF is clearly the air delivery service of choice but if you have an unexpected need to deliver a package in a hurry don't overlook the folks at Carrier Express."
But if you want it delivered to the right address and the right people, chose a different service - the hand held one run by Jordan.
Complain about this comment
Mark:
"There is little doubt al-Qaeda scored a major victory over Detroit, even though no-one was badly hurt."
So, by your way of thinking is there any way al-Qaeda can fail? If a botched attack is a "major victory", what is failure?
Mark, to suggest that a failed attack is a success strains credulity. al-Qaeda had a major opportunity to do damage and screwed the pooch. They accomplished nothing more that show us a gap in our defenses. Now we have the ability to close it without taking a hit. al-Qaeda screwed up again. I'm starting to doubt their competence as an enemy.
al-Qaeda is not the only terrorist group the U.S. has to deal with. Frankly, I'm more concerned about domestic terrorists. People in this country are as angry as I've ever seen them be. The success rate for domestic terrorists is much higher, and we have no idea from where the attacks are coming.
For those of you scared by this, I suggest you check with a surgeon to see if you can get a backbone transplant.
Complain about this comment
63. David Murrell wrote:
"If you want to hurt groups like Al Qaeda you starve them, you cut their cash flow and when something like Detroit happens you simply say ‘an emotionally disturbed foreign national made a failed amateur attempt to blow up a plane.’"
Thank you Machievelli. I will be sure to pass that information along to the Prince as soon as we Inagurate one... oh CRAP! We're a REPRESENTATIVE DOMOCRACY!!! Darn.
Then I guess you'll have to respect the decisions made by our elected officials... which might just be that our long term security is dependent upon inter-cultural respect, human rights, and open economic trade.
Sorry.
Starving out villages might not be an effective option after all.
Game over.
Complain about this comment
Ref 93 powermeekat-
:How are things in Dearborn?"
Dearborn, Michigan is doing quite well; considering that the economy in southeastern Michigan is in such a depression. Dearborn remains fairly prosperous through it all. It is a favored haunt of the night-time crowds with lots of very popular restaurants and nightclubs because it is a very save city. The residents of the city are known for their hospitality.
You may have heard that Dearborn supports one of the largest Muslim populations outside the Mid-east. Hamtramck has also become a city heavily populated by Muslims.
The City of Detroit is becoming another draw to Muslims. Many growing centers have blossomed throughout the city. It may be of interest to many that the burnt-out, drug-infested hellholes where Muslims have concentrated quickly become prospering, safe, clean, communities with houses and business structures being renovated. Old, burned-out hulks are removed and new construction follows the removal.
It may be of even further interest for many to learn that there is very little tension between different Muslim nationalities and sects.
These new immigrants follow the patterns of all previous immigrants to the Metro-Detroit area. They work hard; build businesses; learn English; become U.S. citizens; vote in elections. Their children quickly assimilate into the culture of their new country.
Complain about this comment
Just like Christmas attack on Coptic church in Egypt, part of a bigger picture: yet another example of typical tolerance displayed by some followers of a "great religion of peace".
Just like the destruction of historic Buddha statues in Afghanistan.
Or that recent assassination attempt in Denmark... Or..
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And just like hundreds of mosques destroyed by american, and israelian bombing..Just as Barbari mosque was destroyed by the dancing pandits...Just as many teachers, cartoonists, doctors who have died silently by the bombings of Nato, usa/uk and israel..they do what you do, and you do what they do? But you complain in a louder voice, like a firefracker in an empty tin box..
Complain about this comment
Re #106 Scott 0962
Sorry! Big admirer of Blue Angles and all tailhook guys.
Actually, if you include ship launches, US NAVY can deliver some pretty hefty packages too. And pretty accurately.
Those Indian tradional weapons, Tomahaws being a perfect example.
[And I won't even mention them boomers]
And as far as anti-missile,let alone anti-sat packages there's simply no contest: Aaegis frigates are it.
Situation may change a bit, when hypersonic (Mach 6-9), long range unmanned bombers are introduced, but that will ocurr probably no earlier than 2025.
Anyway, greetings and salutations! :)
Complain about this comment
There is little doubt al-Qaeda scored a major victory over Detroit, even though no-one was badly hurt."
So, by your way of thinking is there any way al-Qaeda can fail? If a botched attack is a "major victory", what is failure?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
its time to remind you about a small quote of ben laden in my own words, because its important for you to think about it, before you write that that a botched attack is not a major victory, please forward it to your president as well, so that he doesnt response in a knee jerk way, as he came on the slogan "change, yes we can".
Ben laden in 2004 addressed the americans, in which he said that all alqaida has to do is send two fighters with a cloth with alqaida written on it and america will come after them using enormous resources...He is not fighting the war with you, you are fighting a war, he is just slowly emptying your financial resources...
Complain about this comment
Perhaps, if this were a speech to the international community 1-2 years from now (when War Dust is settling)... we will hear this side of the matter.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The problem is the other people arent americans, and they are not at all concerned with what the president of usa says at which stage, they heard, and obama I am sure knows that those people arent bothered about any american died in afghanistan or iraq, they chose to go there...
Complain about this comment
75. powermeerkat wrote:
[RE]"Unless of course the Russians give us permission."
Who are those Russians you (and you know who you are) keep bringing up?
___
Aw honey - people here in the states can be seriously clueless nutjobs. There's a market at the end of my block run largely by Ukrainian and West African immigrants...
A pleasant Black American gentleman in line ahead of us wished the African-American cashier a Happy Kwanza - and then was confused to hear that the man was actually Christian. Aren't all people born in Africa pagan animists?
Then the Ukranian guy manning the next register chimed in
"It's okay, I get that all the time! Everyone here thinks I'm Russian!"
Sigh... we are such a dumb bunch of bunnies.
Meanwhile -
a real, live, actual Russian-American woman baby-sat my younger son for two years! Corina was a delight and we all loved her.
My older son had a South-Korean babysitter (Young Kim) who spoke very little English - so my dear Micah's first words were all Korean. Unfortunately, he remembers none of it.
See - we don't all live in xenophobic bubbles of paranoid white mediocrity! Honest!
Complain about this comment
Ref. 119, colonelartist:
"He is not fighting the war with you, you are fighting a war, he is just slowly emptying your financial resources..."
Semantics. Arguing over the meaning of the word war is pointless. Both us are engaged in an armed struggle.
And they don't have unlimited financial resources either.
We spent enormous resources defending ourselves against the Soviets and the Axis powers, and we won both of those struggles. If his strategy is to bleed us dry without damaging our infrastructure in a very real way, his chances of success are virtually non-existent.
I'm still stunned that in the eight plus years after his initial surprise attack, his organization still hasn't managed a single attack on American soil (while taking huge losses of its own). I'm still expecting another attack, mind you, but up to this point, al-Qaeda has proven itself completely incapable at driving attacks home to its enemy... and the opportunity has obviously been there.
Complain about this comment
In spite of all the leeway that has been given Obama by his supporters, and some of the obvious criticism from the far right, or at least quite a long way right of center, the Pres needs to stop reading the teleprompter. He looks left, he looks right. He seldom , if ever, looks you straight in the eyes. To me this is not a good thing. I blame his handlers for not setting the stage properly. This issue is easily fixed. He also needs to change his content. How many times can we swallow "unacceptable" ?
This situation has been handled in such an amateurish fashion. Napolitano, way out of her depth, keeps blundering around like a blind man in a mine field. She should never have been appointed. No experience in life or politics. Nice lady, wrong job. Obama, nice guy, wrong job. How do we get past the ego's that drive people into politics, and find the right man or woman, who is actually qualified, both ethically and professionally, to do what is necessary? As it stands, we have weak leadership, we have terrorists being given RIGHTS that they are not remotely entitled to, and we continue to show weakness, in the name of freedom. This will lead only to one thing.
The exact opposite of what is intended. No freedom, but slavery.
We need leadership, we need courage and we need to go back to the principles, both moral and political, that has kept the world moderately safe for 65 years.
Complain about this comment
Semantics. Arguing over the meaning of the word war is pointless. Both us are engaged in an armed struggle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are struggling with more arms than him...You declared war against terror, he didnt even mention the word war...And you fall into his trap everytime...He is going to exhaust you and defeat you by scaring...unless you stop acting in a knee jerk fashion...He sends(lets for fun say he sent this "christmas father" who didnt do anything except set fire on himself and your reaction is all infront of you...Clearly there are hidden motives in your use of arms and wars, otherwise when someone openly tells you his modu operandi like ben laden did, only a fool, i am sorry only an idiot reacts the way american authorities react..I say idiot, because a fool learns from his own expearnces, while and idiot never learns, neither from his expearnces nor others, A clever person is clever because he learns from other people's expearnce, always remember this...
Complain about this comment
Re #110. mighty Mother Russia...
Oil prices are way down.
Corruption and alcoholism in Russia are simply undescribable.
Gazputin's kingdom is in big doodoo financially.
In 2009 Russia's economy shrank by 10%!
Currently Kremlin even delays issuing new uniforms to Russian forces,
let alone arming them with new weapons to replace Soviet era junk].
Russia's newest "Borey" nuclear subs are nowhere to be seen.
Her "state-of the-art" SLBM "Bulava" so far can hit any target except the intended one: to date it can rarely find Kamchatka.
[pretty large CEP I'd say :-)]
Russia not only cannot produce any decent passenger plane, let alone 5th generaton fighter-bomber, but her military pilots have a tendency to crash in most embarrassing situations - during air shows and Expos.
[vide SU-27 record]
Half of the planes Russia lost over Georgia were shot by her OWN antiaircraft batteries.[sic] Not an unimpressive feat.:-)
Yes, Moscow can still bully tiny countries like Georgia.
But who besides that?
NB. Iran's neighbour up north is not Russia, but quite anti-Russian, gas and oil rich Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan. And since, on top of that, a pretty large chank of Iran's soil, and of its population is in reality an Azeriland - with plenty of quite unhappy Azeris - I don't know whether there's something to be boastful or optimistic about if you are Messrs Gazputin and Ahmadinnerjacket's fan.
And if you want to talk about permissions..
Why do you think Russians have delayed constructon of Busher nuclear reactor once again, "for technical reasons", absolutely infuriating senile ayatollahs in Tehran?
With the announcement coming shortly after a meeting between Obama and Medvedev? ;)
P.S. Our huge AFB in Incirlik is not exactly located in Russia, either.:)
"Good night and good luck!"
Complain about this comment
I'm still stunned that in the eight plus years after his initial surprise attack, his organization still hasn't managed a single attack on American soil
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Clash of losses, to you loss means what you point at, but I think to him loss is everything, if you loose millions of dollars in stupid pointless drills like this pornographic booths which are no guarantee that they can stop terrorist attacks, then its his gain, if your cia has heaps and heaps of data and it uses time and energy to go through useless data then its a gain to him...to make you engage in pointless excersizes, to exaust you by making you use your energies in useless data, to make you expand wars, to keep you engage in wars...and all this causing disgust towards usa among the muslims...And above all, turning americans into muslimophobes and more intolarant, and he is able to show this all to the muslims...even those who didnt even know if there was a country called usa...
Complain about this comment
Re 116...Dearborn.
Thnaks. Really pleased to here that.
Complain about this comment
Ref. 126, colonelartist:
"...he is able to show this all to the muslims...even those who didnt even know if there was a country called usa..."
And where are all these adherents to his philosophy? The way you put it, I would expect hoards of suicide bombers attempting attacks on our interests. There are few, no doubt, but not even a company's worth yet.
Bin Laden is hardly Ghengis Khan. The latter raised large, capable armies. With the kind of grinding poverty we're seeing in places like Afghanistan and Yemen, you'd think bin Laden would have an endless supply of soldiers. Where are they?
Complain about this comment
And where are all these adherents to his philosophy? The way you put it, I would expect hoards of suicide bombers attempting attacks on our interests. There are few, no doubt, but not even a company's worth yet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Those who are looking for suicide bombers will keep on looking for them through their weapons and their resources, and still not get his modus operandi...Genius, your president, the old bush and this new bush in the skin of Obama are the ones promising wars and eveything else...its not a mere conincidence that muslims generally and the rest of the world view americans not the way americans wish or thought the world viewed them...ignorant, tunneled sight, racists, segregatists, abusers, terrorists in uniform, occupiars and aggressors, before 2001 such words were used for the occupying forces of the jews...
Complain about this comment
Anyone else noticed that if you want a summary of what we might term 'liberal' (OK, anti-American if you like) contributors have posted up to any point, you can find one 'below the dotted line' as it were? I'm finding it quite convenient.
Complain about this comment
Bin Laden is hardly Ghengis Khan.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
he has made the americans into Ghengis Khan...
Complain about this comment
Re #122 AndyPost
They tried to repeat(mutatis mutandis) WTC attack in L.A. ca 3 years ago.
This time it was thwarted before it reached operational stage.
But aQ still has plenty of misfits and micreants who want to go to paradise with the biggest bang possible, and simply can't wait to lay their paws on those 72 virgins (apiece).
So you hunch is correct. They'll wait for us to relax and become complacent securitywise. And then they'll try again.
[harbors or malls perhaps, if airliners become too hard targets.]
Now, about them Somali pirates for hire...
naaah!
Complain about this comment
Re #123 artracer:
Napolitano, way out of her depth, keeps blundering around like a blind man in a mine field. She should never have been appointed. No experience in life or politics.
She might have even been O.K. But not on that beat!!!
You need to deal with thugs? Hire a Siciliano, not Napolitano.
Complain about this comment
Now, about them Somali pirates for hire...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
And the good news is that local fishermen are satisified because the fish boats which were eating their fish stay away from those areas and once again the fish has come back to the area...This was how the somali piracy started, local fishermen fighting against the big fishery industries..And while the americans focus on those 72 virgins dwelling in paradise, their economy would be so bad that they would not be able to pay for the virgins in las vegas...
Complain about this comment
RE: 78. At 3:14pm on 08 Jan 2010, Simon21 wrote:
"73. At 2:52pm on 08 Jan 2010, squirrelist wrote: To add to 70:"
(just read the thread. or don't.)
Simon:
Drunken transvestite Hoover? Wow.
You know, my Pop Pop was an FBI agent for Hoover. He did some good work. They arrested many gangsters. We have some nice pictures of them shaking hands. You're mean and silly, MrSimon, and you know not of which you speak.
Nonetheless, I am sad if the FBI is (once again) pulling stoopid tricks.
Ever heard of The Camden 28?
During Vietnam, there were a number of war protestors in Camden, New Jersey. The FBI hired an independent mole to infiltrate them and to determine whether they had any violent plans.
Over time, the protestors broke into a city office and burned some draft cards. They were, of course, arrested.
It turns out that the FBI mole was the one who showed them how to break into the office. They didn't actually have any violent plans until the FBI gave them the idea and showed them how to break into the building.
Oops.
Aren't we humans silly? Truly - the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Fear is the mindkiller...
Complain about this comment
Naked, bound and shot: how ‘Tamil rebel’ was killed by solder.
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
This is the contribution of usa to the war against terror...
Complain about this comment
Ref. 132, powermeerkat:
"They'll wait for us to relax and become complacent securitywise. And then they'll try again."
Agreed, I'm just not terrorized by that possibility, and that is the name of their game, isn't it?
In the meantime, this fact I heard on the News Hour last night is really sticking in my craw: In the years since 9/11, roughly 5,000 Americans have died in Afghanistan and Iraq, while 27,000 young African American men have been gunned down on the streets of America. I've seen AG Holder speak once about it (and I'm an admitted news junkie). I can't help but feel we're not allocating our resources in proportion to the seriousness of the threats we face.
Complain about this comment
Ref. 135, Philly-Mom:
"It turns out that the FBI mole was the one who showed them how to break into the office. They didn't actually have any violent plans until the FBI gave them the idea and showed them how to break into the building."
Worse, I believe that the FBI raid on the Black Panthers was for all intents and purposes a government hit.
However, I believe the FBI generally does good work, and I support them... certainly more than I support the intelligence agencies (which may or may not be fair).
Complain about this comment
Message to Mark Mardell, you say our comments are key and that you read them all, then read this one.
The various US intelligence agencies let this guy slip through the net because of a spelling error. What if... no lets leave it at that and move onto the next what if, that is he was able to detonate his pants and blow the plane to kingdom come and all with him that day. Where would US troops be off to next?
Complain about this comment
133 meerkat
"You need to deal with thugs? Hire a Siciliano, not Napolitano."
In Italy now the Camorra Napolitana is now considered much more powerful and dangerous than the Sicilian lot ....
Complain about this comment
Re #137 Andy Post.
Right. The point is not to get tense and panicky, but simply remain alert and vigilant.
As for your other point...
30 years ago I made 2 statements which has raised quite a few eyebrows of people who should have known better, and created quite a few smiles.
1. I predicted that the next really major war in the Middle East was going to be not about oil, but about water. The year was 1979 so quite a few people could hardly hide their amusement.
2. I stated that education (incl. production of indigenous scientists and engineers in sufficient numbers) is a national security issue.
And that by tolerating semi-illiterate teachers and abysmall curricula in American public schools we were endangering our national security.
Did anybody take it seriously? Not really.
As for No1 - we'll find out pretty soon whether I was right or wrong.
As for No2 - by now it's become patently clear that I was right.
And has anything been done since then to remove the growing threat?
Nope. In 30 years time.
Complain about this comment
138. Andy Post :
The Move 9 firebomb was government SNAFU as well, but that was mostly blamed on the City of Philly. Bummer.
Most of these events resulted from misunderstanding, miss-communication, and bad training/oversight.
People screw up. Feds botch jobs sometimes. CIA folks occasionally miss facts. Soldiers misfire. Bombs drop in wrong places. When people with weapons screw up, bad things happen.
-- So what do we do - eliminate the military? government?
Nonetheless, I have an FBI brother and an old in the CIA --and I am very proud of them. They're not perfect, but they work tirelessly, carry guns... and they rarely wear Kevlar vests.
My CIA friend is a spunky female bomb squad engineer. She trains bomb dogs, inspects car engines, and turns ignitions before important people get behind the wheel. She doesn't plan on having children anytime soon. I may be a pacifist, but she's a freakin' hero. She clocks in and risks her life with every car key she turns.
And the only medal she's likely to get is the one they'll give her husband when her body comes home.
People b1ch about the CIA? Whatever.
But do they have the ba11s to apply for the job?
Complain about this comment
140. At 9:03pm on 08 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
133 meerkat
"You need to deal with thugs? Hire a Siciliano, not Napolitano."
In Italy now the Camorra Napolitana is now considered much more powerful and dangerous than the Sicilian lot ....
Leon Panetta, current CIA director is of Calabrese descent.
And now what do you have so say about THAT? :-)))
Complain about this comment
The poor Nigerian guy with his burned trousers is not a core question related current or coming conflict in Yemen. From my point of view he is only suitable tool for U.S. PR campaign to get public opinion favorable for future actions.
The real agenda started already some year ago when CIA started its cover operations in Yemen. The motivation can be found from the fact that while U.S. Military-Industrial-Complex is looking new markets, the Pentagon is searching new missions.
In my opinion there is three main reasons for U.S. activities in Yemen which are
1) securing oil transportation route
2) securing the untapped oil reserves in Yemen
3) securing the quarterly bonuses for persons related to military-industrial-complex.
More about these aspects one may find from my article "Is Yemen the next target for the War on Terror? - http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2010/01/07/is-yemen-the-next-target-for-the-war-on-terror/
Complain about this comment
Re: 144. At 10:19pm on 08 Jan 2010, Ari Rusila
I think you're getting the point. Are we the only two?
Complain about this comment
post 134 colonelartist,
With posting,it does help if one is coherent,& to have a point makes such
a difference....
Complain about this comment
With posting,it does help if one is coherent,& to have a point makes such
a difference....
------------------------------------------------------------------------
i consider the minds of the posters here, For the incoherent and pointless minds, the incoherent posts, besides they have a an expreance of 8 yrs of inchorenteness of george bush, these people are now the champions of decoding the incherentness.....
Complain about this comment
Ref. 144, Ari Rusila:
From your article:
"One is Yemen’s geopolitical location as one of the world’s most important oil transport routes and the other is undeveloped – some say one of the world’s largest – petroleum reserves in the territory."
The CIA World Factbook has Yemen's oil reserves at three billion (i.e. thousand million) barrels. That's less than half of Norway's, barely more than the UK's, and one seventh that of the U.S. If it had huge reserves, we (or someone else) would already be there.
The strategic position of Yemen makes more sense in that it makes an excellent base for piracy (along with Somalia), but Yemen hasn't the means to exert its power much beyond it's shoreline, and it doesn't have that much power anyway. Also, while the Strait of Hormuz has long been identified as a potential choke point for the flow of oil to the West, it has been patrolled by the U.S. Navy for just as long. I don't remember any time since the end of World War II that it has been in danger of losing that control (and there's nothing to suggest we will in the foreseeable future). While the U.S. has limits to its power on land, its naval power has no rival.
Your third point just seems cynical to me. I'm interested in seeing your proof.
Complain about this comment
143 meerkat
"Leon Panetta, current CIA director is of Calabrese descent.
And now what do you have so say about THAT? :-)))"
Now, the 'Ndrangheta are really scary. If they control the CIA it's all over....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta
Complain about this comment
Re the various conspiracies that our poor Nigerian with the burnt balls is merely a CIA stooge to soften the public up for a new war in Yemen....
Do we think
A)Obama knows and is complicit?
B) Rogue elements in the CIA loyal to Cheney and the neo-cons are following their own agenda in the interest of continuing the Farenheit 451-style permenant state of war on behalf of the all-powerful military/industrial complex?
Discuss.
Goodnight. (Ha Ha)
Complain about this comment
148 andypost
"The CIA World Factbook has Yemen's oil reserves at three billion (i.e. thousand million) barrels. That's less than half of Norway's, barely more than the UK's, and one seventh that of the U.S."
Andy, Andy, Andy ..... sooooooo naive.
The CIA are lying in their factbook so no one else goes to look for the oil..... so it will still be there for the US military/industrial complex to dig up later (after killing all the Yemanis of course)
Complain about this comment
Ref. 151, RomeStu:
"The CIA are lying in their factbook so no one else goes to look for the oil..... so it will still be there for the US military/industrial complex to dig up later (after killing all the Yemanis of course)"
I have to admit I considered that possibility. I don't trust the CIA either.
Still, the CIA has to get the information from somewhere. I don't think they have geologists out in the field, but even if they did, they wouldn't be alone. Exxon, Shell, Chevron, PetroChina, etc. are all looking for oil. They'd know, too, and they wouldn't wait for the US military/industrial complex to take action (especially the Dutch and the Chinese). Bribery works better than bullets.
Complain about this comment
Do we think
A)Obama knows and is complicit?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
You dont learn anything from iraq war? where cia lied or under pressure gave to bush what he wanted to see so that he could wage the war....The president of america handles the situations, at times especially when it comes to such times, the situations are created in and by the cia and other intelligence agencies...
Complain about this comment
Obama speaks well. At least he has an excellent mastery of the language. GWB could not put an English sentence together, and "war on terror" has no meaning. But, just like GWB, Obama does nothing.
After 9/11, there were a lot of reports that the terrorists could have been spotted and stopped on time, had the various security agencies colaborated, and taken their job seriously. In 8 years they have not improved much it seems.
Why has no one been fired?
Complain about this comment
144. At 10:19pm on 08 Jan 2010, Ari Rusila
I paid a visit to the link, there is too much to digest in one evening and I will return another time. Strange that with less insight than you clearly have,I have long since drawn the same conclusions on many of the subjects you have covered. Most people read what they are told to read, I find it better to dig for my knowledge. I think these other bloggers have missed the point completely and will remain in the dark. To you I say, keep digging. To the others I say, go back and read the main article but don't believe everything you read in the mainstream press. Knowledge is the real power.
Complain about this comment
There is enough oil in this country to last us hundreds of years. The only thing we dont need oil for is propelling automobiles. We need it for the plastics industry and our 21st Century way of life. If huge oil interests world wide were not so corrupt, and hell bent on protecting the eggs laid by their own golden goose, you could kiss most of this terrorism bye bye. Until we stop pussyfooting around with the terrorists, giving them tax payer funded lawyers, whose only interest is how many hours to bill the government, and until we start to deal with them like the vermin they are, then this will just go on and on. I was fed up with W's rhetoric and lack of real action, and now we have BHO's rhetoric. Why the hell cant we have a leader who has the spherical wherewithal to actually lead. Speak up, speak loud and get the message across. We (the civilized world) will not be pushed around by a load of primitives who want to drag us back to the 12th century. Their ONLY aim is to kill ALL non believers. There is no middle ground. There is no discussion. How come we can all see it, yet the dopey politicians that WE elect are blind? Obama needs to lead and lead now. Otherwise he is a one term show.
Complain about this comment
At 5:41pm on 08 Jan 2010, cjwd wrote:
102; "Scott, it has been remarked in the press that it took GWBJR SEVEN days to address the shoebomber guy on the plane whereas Obama addresses within THREE and people suffering from political and press amnesia don't see the ludicrousness of their own perspective compared to actual history."
George Bush is the benchmark by which to measure Obama's leadership? I'd hoped we could set our standards a bit higher.
Obama is the President of the United States, when he asks a question people jump to find answers and he has the most modern communications equipment in the world to keep him in touch with his advisors and intelligence chiefs. He could have had the facts in hand and been ready to address the nation in hours, not days--if he had thought it merited his personal attention. A leader with sharper instincts would have understood the gravity of the incident and given it closer attention, even to the point of holding some people accountable instead of fobbing us off with talk of "systemic failure". I would have thought that Obama, who has been the subject of some stinging criticism for being "soft on terrorism", would have at least recognized the political opportunity and leaped at the chance to be seen taking charge and doing something to protect the American people.
Complain about this comment
Ref 139, redrooster
"Where would US troops be off to next?"
In the Bush era it would have been a toss up between Bali and Paraguay.
Complain about this comment
109. At 5:45pm on 08 Jan 2010, PartTimeDon wrote:
Ref #102 Scott0962
"The delay in reponse to the air attack was an attempt to down play its importance. It's a tactic designed move al Quaeda away from the forefront of public consciousness and deny them and their cause publicity. A strategems go, it's quite subtle. Something we didn't see under the last administration.
Even then Obama managed to respond in 3 days, which is half Dubya's response time to the shoe bomber incident. Why was this not an issue at the time?"
OK, let me get this straight: not responding right away was a deliberate and subtle tactic to undermine Al Qaeda's importance but you give Obama get credit for responding in half the time George Bush did to a similar incident? Um...wouldn't that logic make George Bush twice as subtle as Obama?
Subtle tactic my eye: the man didn't want to interrupt his vacation. Heck, if I was on vacation in paradise with a woman who looked as good as his wife I wouldn't want any interruptions either but I don't have his responsibilities.
Complain about this comment
Ref 148 Andy Post.
True, that the proven oil reserves are only some 3.7 billion barrells. However there is some promising reports etc findings which have not yet been proven. E.g. following quote from OilVoice [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
"Yemen is believed to be sitting on some of the world's greatest untapped oil reserves. In particular, the Masila Basin and Shabwa Basin are listed as sites containing potentially lucrative discoveries. No doubt such reports would have been the motivation for Total's entrance into Yemen's developing oil arena in the first place."
And this (http://www.dgswilson.com/wpsite/2010/01/08/whos-afraid-of-yemen/)
"Some fifteen years ago I was told in a private meeting with a well-informed Washington insider that Yemen contained “enough undeveloped oil to fill the oil demand of the entire world for the next fifty years.”
Is there oil or not I do not know, but big profits are normally made by taking risks.
Complain about this comment
Ref. 123, artracer
"He also needs to change his content. How many times can we swallow "unacceptable""
As many times as we swallowed "misunderestimated".
I agree with your observation about the teleprompter, but judging by his discourse in townhall meetings he has no problem articulating his thoughts.
Complain about this comment
I know i'm going to get criticized for what I am about to say but I really don't care. I saw the Presidents speach yesterday and I have to admit that he is right, we the people can not allow ourselves to live in fear. And we can not allow our freedoms to be whittled away in the Name of public safety, for if we do then the terrorists have won. The republicans would have us give up our liberties in the name of Safety. Unfortunately, that is not what this country was founded on. Two hundred and thirty four years ago Benjamin Franklin had it right when he said "those would would trade temporary liberty for temporary safety deserve liberty nor safety."
Complain about this comment
114. At 6:05pm on 08 Jan 2010, Andy Post wrote:
Mark:
"There is little doubt al-Qaeda scored a major victory over Detroit, even though no-one was badly hurt."
"So, by your way of thinking is there any way al-Qaeda can fail? If a botched attack is a "major victory", what is failure?"
"Mark, to suggest that a failed attack is a success strains credulity. al-Qaeda had a major opportunity to do damage and screwed the pooch. They accomplished nothing more that show us a gap in our defenses..."
__________
A worthless, no-brain 23 year old, from East Upper-armpit, Hell-Hole-land succeeds in having millions of travelers delayed, hundreds of flights delayed or canceled, and prompts security reviews and upgrades world-wide. Talk about grossly disproportionate negative externalities.
That's quite the perverse return on investment.
---------
The terrorists want a mad bull that will charge at every Matador's cape. They thrive on that. They must have wished that the Bush, Jr., regime would last forever.
The more President Obama deprives them of the oxygen of hysterical publicity, or refuses to be drawn into a stupid over-reaction, the harder they will try to demand the world's attention.
And now there is a chance that America may finally realize that the way to defeat terrorism is by depriving it of the attention it so craves; by slowly and carefully letting the air out of the balloon. You don't defeat terrorism by killing more and more innocent civilians. You defeat it by making it look ever more ridiculous, and ever more vicious.
That, and alternate gainful employment, is what dries up the pool of potential new converts.
And as the pool dries up, the patient, relentless work of law enforcement slowly becomes easier. The remaining sources of money are identified and shut off. And, eventually, one by one, the bad actors run out of places to run and places to hide. They no longer feel safe anywhere or with anyone. They stop trusting each other. In Algeria they eventually turned on each other in a bloody internal purge. And then DeGaulle spoiled it all.
Complain about this comment
#45 squirrelist,
#35 rodidog,
"Mark, I found this paragraph of yours to be sufficiently hysterical and rather chilling."
I can't see why; it should be fairly clear by now that many if us who have lived with the threat of being blown up (and some of whom may have been) find many of the reactions to the Detroit bomber just that: hysterical, and chilling.
The chemical explosives carried by the crotch bomber were sufficient to put a good sized hole into the airplane. Only his inability to detonate his bomb, what ever reason that was, saved that airliner. We were lucky, the fact that Napolitano came out and claimed the system worked in preventing this terrorist act, was a complete joke and leaves her competency, and by extension this administrations, in question.
I find flippant mischaracterizations of criticisms in general, without any references, and assigning criticism to acts of treason, to be a sign of hysterical behavior. I was surprised at Marks cheap shot and chilling accusations.
------------------------
There is all this handwringing panic about this terrible failure to stop the attempt before it began. But the real failure, the most important one, was the bomb itself.
No, the real failure was a lack of proper screening by airport security. Everything about this man cried out for a more extensive search of himself and his belongings. Had that happened, he would not have made it onto that plane.
---------------------------------
It seems to have occurred to no-one that if the American system had notfailed there would have been a strong possibility the bomber might well have blown himself up at Schiphol and killed many people there had been an attempt to intercept him at that point.
So your reasoning would suggest we not bother intercepting terrorists in fear of people being killed; instead we should send them on their merry way in hopes they bungle the job. That makes sense.
Out of curiosity and assuming you're familiar with the chemical explosive and the triggering mechanism, how exactly would he have blown himself up while in the presence of security, in your opinion?
-----------------------------------------
The best airport security is surely to try to find a bomber before he even gets near one. But the hysteria (I honestly cannot find a more benign word to describe it) seems to have pushed that strategy so far into the background it's become invisible. Because it is much more difficult? Even with one list of half a million 'suspects' and another of 4,000 'too dangerous to be allowed to fly?
If I understand you right, similar methods by the previous administration to do that job were highly criticized and considered a violation of the constitution and an over reaction by folks on this blog and elsewhere.
----------------------
(And in the meantime, while the USA is distracted by all this, anger is fed among some of the very people Obama says the US must reach out to as another young teenager is killed in an air raid; and a policeman is killed by a bomb in Northern Ireland. Neither the result of 'Islamic terrorism'.)
I do not consider a lucky miss by a terrorist (or common criminal as Mark would have it) an unnecessary distraction, or why what happens in Northern Ireland a responsibility of the U.S.
Complain about this comment
American values do not mean being weak in the face of extremism as obamites might have people believe. True Americans DO NOT believe it is wrong to find every measure and means to ferret out those who would threaten our country and society. Sometimes that means being POLITICALLY INCORRECT TO THE MAX! It is about time that the one who is supposed to represent us and sit in the seat of the presidency of this country sounded the correct words, "war on terror". (Although he probably gagged & choked when he said it.)
According to Obama, "We are at war. We are at war against al-Qaeda, a far-reaching network of violence and hatred that attacked us on 9/11, that killed nearly 3,000 innocent people, and that is plotting to strike us again. And we will do whatever it takes to defeat them," he said. Bravo BO!!!!
Now he simply needs to allow us to treat militants as ENEMIES of the state, not simple criminals who need our lawyers, courts, and judicial system. They must be placed in military prisons, in military courts, and sentenced for being enemy combatants in this war! So, mr. president; here is the truth; our adversaries want us to bend over and play nice guy while they snicker at us and do to our behinds whatever they want......because they will! They are!! Their goal is to kill us no matter the cost to themselves. It is and always has been their goal. The greatest victory we can hand the terrorists is what we are handing them simply because you are president, and you want to sit down with them, talk nice, and offer tea and crumpets until they are nice back. Yeah, right! We become (have become) the fools. Again, they are LTAO!
Complain about this comment
#147
QED. Don't drink and operate machinery, people. Even a keyboard.
Det Insp. Craven
Complain about this comment
#124
Sounds like the thousand year Reich again. Good luck with that!
LMTS.
Craven
Complain about this comment
The greatest victory we can hand the terrorists is what we are handing them simply because you are president, and you want to sit down with them, talk nice, and offer tea and crumpets until they are nice back. Yeah, right! We become (have become) the fools. Again, they are LTAO!
Here Mardell is one of the largest problems this country has. Facts no longer counter delusions. Reality is irrelevant,"tea and crumpets" rule. Now this isn't a insignificant minority that hold these views, they represent a significant minority.
What can be done about this? How do you cure insanity when it's of this magnitude?
Do all empires eventually fail because the population begins to go nuts?
Complain about this comment
Re "Obama needs to lead and lead now." - and many others -
I don't remember a time when there seemed to be so much going on, and so little consensus about what to do or even where our interests lie.
Every new president, at about this time in his administration, finds himself shifting to a new constituency from the one that elected him. Obama, especially, because of his own nature and the nature of the coalition that got him into office, is busy remaking his base as an incumbent president preparing for his first mid-term electoral test.
But the most revolutionary leader in modern American history is facing what looks like an entirely novel challenge - the people themselves are divided into more fragments, or perhaps facets, than the history books have used to tell.
There is a group called Republicans, but there is no organizing principle there, except perhaps exasperation and a common desire to recover power and prevent this frightening young giant from gaining any traction. They hate themselves, it is plain, so people like Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin pander to the base and the gossip press, and wear the mantle of leadership, rather like the comic book superheroes they are.
The Democrats are almost as bad - Obama forged a winning coalition away from the party leadership, which had belonged to the Clintons, and on the strength of national disgust with GWB the Dems drew a super majority, but of such diversity that it cannot be led, driven, or even tricked into acting like a majority.
Radical right and Radical left both presume they represent the best interests of the nation, whether the nation agrees with them or not, and are in perpetual denial of the rising gorge they inspire in the plurality of thoughtful Americans they feel should flock to their support.
I think there may be too many voices in the air today. Too much analysis, too many opinions, too many shouted discussions, too many points of view. It's not about loyalty to my group anymore, as it always has been - it's all about me, my interests, my needs, my opinion - I am not defined by my region, class, or party anymore. A good thing, I have always thought, but maybe not.
Herding cats is too simple a metaphor. The challenge in a 21st century democracy is to find a way to lead the dust in a thousand sunbeams. Brownian motion is our political paradigm.
A few sincerely held 'pure' ideals have enormous appeal in such a world, once one is sufficiently sickened by the pointlessness of it. That is the true strength of our enemies - of the real enemy of the West in the 21st century.
As long as we have no focus, 'resistance is futile.'
KScurmudgeon
just past the cusp
Complain about this comment
164. At 01:46am on 09 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
I do not consider a lucky miss by a terrorist (or common criminal as Mark would have it) an unnecessary distraction, or why what happens in Northern Ireland a responsibility of the U.S.
Not your responsibility eh?, what was noraid then?
America for the Americans, fine, keep it that way!
Complain about this comment
An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind.
Face it, until you all understand the motivation for the attacks on America you can't possibly hope to win a war on terror.
You're not fighting countries, you're not even fighting one organisation with one head that if you chop off will fall away and cease activities.
You're fighting an ideology. The problem is that you fuel that ideology when you respond with force.
I'm not suggesting we sit and do nothing as something clearly has to be done but there have been armed forces in the middle east now for decades and it just doesn't stop the problem.
Security, defense strategy and intelligence has no doubt prevented disasters but hasn't stopped the extremist ideals from spreading and new terrorists being created.
Complain about this comment
An opniion found on BBC's Have Your say:
Had Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab [a London University College engineering student] defaulted on a Federally sponsored student loan, they would have been all over him like white on rice.
Walter Wilson, Los Angeles, United States
Complain about this comment
Re: Yemen (Osama ibn Laden's homeland).
U.S. want to move on Yemen to steal its oil?
[as well as its diamods, uranium, etc. :-)]
Sure. But then, how do you explain Saudi Arabia's Air Force bombing the pants off Yemeni thug...err...."freedom fighters".?
Perhaps Saudis know of more oil in Yemen than CIA? :-))))))))))))))))))))
Complain about this comment
164. rodidog:
You call me 'flippant', accuse me (and I presume Mark) of 'mischaracterisation'. Even, as I understand it, 'treason'.
But it is you who 'mischarcterise' my points.
just let me take one: this concentration on 'airport security'. You ask for 'references', though I don't know what you mean by that. But let me try: If a determined bomber were to suddenly come to the conclusion that he might not achieve his original aim (i.e. getting on a plane to blow it up) by suspecting he was being approached by 'security', it seems to me obvious that he might well attempt to blow himself up in a crowded departure area as an alternative.
One of the London 'Tube bombers' found himself unable to get into the underground station he had intended; got on a bus, and -- it is thought--drawing some attention, because of his behaviour, according to survivors, blew himself, the bus and its passengers up instead before anyone had time to realise what he was really up to.
That is, he chose an alternative available target. The more charitable explanation -- which you would no doubt characterise as me being 'flippant'-- is that he had had second thoughts, was actually attempting to defuse the bomb he was carrying, and exploded it by accident. We obviously will never know.
And by 'distraction' I mean that it has drawn attention away (if there was much in the first place) from suicide bombings which are successful in other countries, and regularly kill an equivalent number of innocent people as would be travelling on an average short-haul flight, for example, in the USA. Or between Schiphol and Madrid, Berlin or Bologna. And which, surely, we also--I would say--need even more imperatively to find ways of preventing.
So I mention just two other deaths--not twenty, eighty, or a hundred, which I could have done--in other parts of the world, and you dare to tell me, and others, and, by extension the relatives of those who died, because you are in the USA, they are irrelevant to you and America?
Now, if I'm merely 'flippant', I'll add this: it wasn't only in the US there was a 'failure of security', but among whoever organised or promoted this Nigerian's attempt. His name and location became known; his father, apparently, had become aware he had become 'radical' enough (I would say 'fanaticised') to be potentially dangerous); his travel arrangements were -- if he really did board without luggage-- suspicious, and the actual bomb appears to have been faulty. Those are the 'failures of security' on the other side; nothing to do with 'luck' or divine intervention.
Complain about this comment
Ref my Nos 1 and 9 (and a title of E M Forster's, if people don't quite get it.)
I think no more than two cheers, now we're getting towards 200 posts. Perhaps only one half-hearted one.
Complain about this comment
Ref 173, powermeerkat
"Perhaps Saudis know of more oil in Yemen than CIA?"
Maybe they know that the best way to get away with murder after 9/11 is to tow the line...
Complain about this comment
Re #154 RomeStu alleges:
The CIA are lying in their factbook so no one else goes to look for the oil..... so it will still be there for the US military/industrial complex to dig up later (after killing all the Yemanis of course)
I see. Is that why Vikings called Green Land Island, and Ice Land - Greenland? To confuse other pirates/robbers?
BTW. Had Columbus wasn't a chicken, listened to Pinzon Bros and continued to sail straigt he would have got to Florida, not to Haiti.
Thank God modern Cubans who dare to sail from Castro Bros.' Gulag know how to navigate straight to Florida, and avoid Haiti like cesspool it is.
P.S. Yours, RomeStu, must be a Freudian slip. YemEnis are in Yemen.
YamAnis are an influencial Saudi family. :-)
[one of them was SA's oil minister for quite a few years].
Complain about this comment
Ref 171
"You're fighting an ideology. The problem is that you fuel that ideology when you respond with force."
Like our British friends would say, spot on!
Complain about this comment
169. KScurmudgeon:
"I think there may be too many voices in the air today. Too much analysis, too many opinions, too many shouted discussions, too many points of view. It's not about loyalty to my group anymore, as it always has been - it's all about me, my interests, my needs, my opinion - I am not defined by my region, class, or party anymore. A good thing, I have always thought, but maybe not."
So did, and so do I. (Even though you and I in other ways are some distance apart!) Perhaps, for lack of ability to philosophise (a word which now seems to have come to mean no more than 'utter a momentarily valid opinion for a single circumstance') we're reverting to the days when people built hill forts and surrounded them with fosses, ditches and palisades.
The urge for conformity of thought (or action) --and some here will be surprised at mewriting this unless they think about it--is what creates the danger; especially when it is disguised as individualism.
Complain about this comment
ref #171
You're fighting an ideology. The problem is that you fuel that ideology when you respond with force.
I'm not suggesting we sit and do nothing as something clearly has to be done but there have been armed forces in the middle east now for decades and it just doesn't stop the problem.
_________________________-
I think you are confusing the propoganda for the real cause. for decades those countires which are run by dictators or human rights violators have used the Blame America or U.K, Israel justification for their own failings. It is true from dictatorrships like Cuba, Venezuela and Zimbabwe to countries in the Middle East and Asia.
The Islamic terrorism movement has mutated from this. If Obama acceded to all their demands it would still flourish.
Complain about this comment
178. At 11:26am on 09 Jan 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
"Ref 171 Like our British friends would say, spot on!"
I think they'd be more likely to say "Yeah, sure. Whatever."
(But in this case it would mean the same ;-D )
Complain about this comment
177. powermeerkat wrote:
"Re #154 RomeStu alleges:
The CIA are lying in their factbook so no one else goes to look for the oil..... so it will still be there for the US military/industrial complex to dig up later (after killing all the Yemanis of course)
I see. Is that why Vikings called Green Land Island, and Ice Land - Greenland? To confuse other pirates/robbers?
__________________________________-
Meerkat - please switch off your irony filters and re-read the post.
Complain about this comment
Re #176
Had you known "facts on the ground" you would not have said such a thing.
Saudis feel directly threatened. And, imagine that, not by the U$A.
Just like quite a few African countries feel threatened not by the U.S. but by the Islamic jihaddists in (and from) Somalia.
Strange, isn't it?
P.S. I didn't realize that wanting to have sex with 72 virgins in paradise rather than with camels or donkeys amounts to an ideology.
Sorry!
Complain about this comment
Re: 171. At 10:44am on 09 Jan 2010, strcprstskrzkrk
At last, a sensible voice on this blog.
The reality is that most civilised people who see something they want in the store window put their hand in their pocket and look at their loose change. If they can afford it they buy it, if not they go away and save the money for it. However in most cases the store is sold out when they return with the money and herein lies the problem. The haves can buy, the have-nots have to wait or do without.
The western world see the things that they want as being in the hands of the undeserving. That being the case, why not enter into negotiations with these people, save up the money and buy from them.
History though tells a different story and the rich see it as their right to have the things they want regardless of the consequences. Those consequences in most cases are human lives. I believe there is a sect in society that feel that collateral damage is acceptable whether it is at home or abroad and is willing to use it as a tool to get what they want. Until and unless this sect is identified and recognised by the wider society things will remain the same or get worse. They are recognisable and they contol everything from the top down,when they are identified they cry persicution and everyone turns to their aid. Human nature being what it is, we are all busy feathering our own nest with something for nothing and turning a blind eye to the things we don't like.
Make of this what you like but you all know it to be true.
By the way foreign troops have been in the middle east for centuries not decades, and the biggest mistake of the twentieth century was allowing the creation of a new state in the middle east in 1948.
Complain about this comment
Re #179 " we're reverting to the days when people built hill forts and surrounded them with fosses, ditches and palisades."
Right, squirrelist.
And that's why I think that it would be more corrrect for Mark not to title his piece "Obama rounds on critics" but "Obama circles the wagons".
[vide: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-pGkeGjJTvs/SKmsJ8cIXzI/AAAAAAAAEe4/Zvn1e1BDkmc/s400/CircleTheWagons.jpg]
Complain about this comment
Ref 179, squirrelist
"The urge for conformity of thought (or action) --and some here will be surprised at mewriting this unless they think about it--is what creates the danger; especially when it is disguised as individualism."
Blindly following the party line, regardless of how illogical an opinion or cause may be is, indeed, a form of "sheepish" individualism that doesn't say much for the strength of our convictions, our character, or even our purported sense of patriotism.
Today, our priorities are centered on what is important to us and how policies affect our pocketbook, rather than what is best for our society. Long term planning means satisfying our needs when our next paycheck comes, who cares about next year, let alone ten years from now.
Last, but certainly not least, we live in an era where courage is defined by how far we go in surrendering our values to assuage our fears, and a time when proposals to care for our fellow citizens are too expensive because they may interferre with our ability to fund crusades.
BTW, have you guys noticed the number of people that spend their days playing Halo and Mortal Combat because they are bi-polar and can not go to work or to school? I have met so many bi-polar people lately that I think it is easier to keep track of normal people than those afflicted by psychological problems!
These are very strange times but, then again, maybe it was always like this and we just didn't know any better...
Complain about this comment
While people are concentrating on how security procedures are not keeping apace with developments, perhaps they would think about this:
"CNN -- In the second such incident in three days, fighter jets escorted a diverted commercial flight on Friday after an unruly passenger caused alarm onboard." (By shutting himself in the loo.)
The only purpose of this 'escort' is to attempt to divert a plane no longer under the free control of a flight crew; or then to shoot it down so it crashes on an unpopulated, rather than a densely populated, area to reduce the death toll. Let's not disguise it by euphemisisms.
How is this designed to deal with a suicide bomber on a plane? By shooting it down before the explosion occurs?
Complain about this comment
Ref 183, powermeerkat
"Had you known "facts on the ground" you would not have said such a thing.
Saudis feel directly threatened. And, imagine that, not by the U$A."
The only "fact on the ground" that I know is that most of the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11, the mastermind of that crime, the planners and financiers were from Saudi Arabia. Not a single one was from Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan. That's the "fact on the ground" that matters to me.
Complain about this comment
183. powermeerkat:
Perhaps (being so knowledgeable--I won't say experienced) you could tell us what are the mammals of choice for, say, fundamentalist Christians, apart from other women than their wives, of course?
If I were that gratuitously insulting about a religious group--particularly one I can think of-- or used the correct term for what you have written there would be a shower of outraged calls for my removal from this blog for ever. At the very least.
So I wait in expectation. Or will I be the only one?
Complain about this comment
SaintDominick are you sure the mastermind was from Saudi Arabia and not closer to home?
Complain about this comment
I just joined in here--all I want to say is that we can look at the behavior of "them" or we can look at the behavior of "us." Regardless of what "they" do, we must remain accountable for our own behavior and play by our own rules, which include the stated values of the UK and the US regarding justice. Going into Iraq was not a just action. It was an action underlain by fear (pants-wetting, hysterical fear) and greed (never forget that Cheney's Halliburton had eyes on Iraq already by the early 1990s). 9/11 seems to have unleashed in the US some enormous post-traumatic stress disorder that allowed Cheney and Bush free rein to indulge their fears in aggression. My hope is that Obama's legendary calm can help us return to some form of rationality or sanity. But given the existence of the teabaggers and the birthers and the other fulminating idiots, I have my doubts.
Complain about this comment
#187 "The only purpose of this 'escort' is to attempt to divert a plane no longer under the free control of a flight crew; or then to shoot it down so it crashes on an unpopulated, rather than a densely populated, area to reduce the death toll."
You're right.
However, are you aware that had Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab succeded
large chunks of Northwest airliner would have fallen on one of the largest Arab/Muslim communities in the U.S.?
[I'm sure you remember what happened not only over but also IN Lockerbee]
Complain about this comment
Squirrelist
It seems your grey cousins have been much maligned.
Comment?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/earth/hi/earth_news/newsid_8448000/8448807.stm
Complain about this comment
Meerkat
"P.S. I didn't realize that wanting to have sex with 72 virgins in paradise rather than with camels or donkeys amounts to an ideology."
It may not be much in the way of an ideology .... But it certainly would be better from the camels' and donkeys' point of view!
I just don't agree with the whole "blowing yourself up" to get there bit
;-)
Complain about this comment
Ref 190,redrooster
"SaintDominick are you sure the mastermind was from Saudi Arabia and not closer to home?"
As a private citizen I have no choice but to accept what my government tells us...when it makes sense. Intrigue is interesting and fun when we read a good novel, but when the pain and danger are real we must assess events logically at believing a gang of Wahhabit fanatics were behind 9/11 is not too far fetched.
I realize a certain ally in the Middle East benefited immensely from 9/11, and so did our military complex and other segments of our economy, but I reject the notion that they were behind that tragedy.
Radicalism, which is not limited to Islam, is a real danger to our societies and we must do everything in our power to understand it and address its causes.
The problem is that instead of focusing on our real enemies we reacted by launching attacks against countries that had nothing to do with 9/11 to satisfy political and economic goals, we further exacerbated the problem by using a huge military force against a relatively small group of terrorists with predictable results.
Destroying infrastructure, killing tens of thousands of people, forcing mass migrations, regime change, putting puppets in charge, taking sides in fratricidal wars in foreign lands, giving carte blanche - and a blank check - to corporations and mercenaries, surrendering our Constitutional rights and undermining our laws to provide a false sense of security, and demonizing an entire culture and a religion handed our enemy a victory well beyond their wildest dreams.
Complain about this comment
Pent House Strictly 4 Tha Strip Joint (*)
(*)=dat piff (mixtape)
Complain about this comment
Re #188 "The only "fact on the ground" that I know is that most of the terrorists that attacked us on 9/11, the mastermind of that crime, the planners and financiers were from Saudi Arabia. Not a single one was from Iraq, Afghanistan or Pakistan."
Yemenis, just jak Algerians, Chechens, Eyptians, Saudis, Uzbeks, etc., were and are an important part of al-Qaida strike force hosted, harbored and protected by Afghanistan's Taliban regime.
The reason U.S. has not retaliated against Algeria, Egypt, Russia Uzbekistan or Saudi Arabia is simple: there's absolutely no evidence that they have been those countries' commandos detailed there by their governments.
BTW. You must know that the government of Yemen also feels threated by those "freedom fighters" and has attacked them militarily even BEFORE U.S. has asked it to do anything?
And that SA has been fighting al-Qaida on its soil for quite some time?
Rather fiercely?
And I would insult you, if I believed that you don't know that the original motive for creating al-Qaida in the first place, was to topple the House of Saudis.
P.S. Let me also assure you that we are not going to attack/bomb United Kingdom just because quite a few terrorists trying to do us harm have been..British subjects.
Complain about this comment
195. At 12:37pm on 09 Jan 2010, SaintDominick
Well.............you've said it all there. There was a benefit to the moguls of your country. just keep all that in mind and always keep an open mind. They say that the onlooker sees most of the game, you are maybe a little too close to the game. I know America quite well and in my humble opinion you are a fine body of men - individually - America however is the bigger threat to world peace. I'm sorry I know you don't want to hear that but you have to face up to it. Put your house in order and enjoy life.
Complain about this comment
Re #189 'Perhaps (being so knowledgeable--I won't say experienced) you could tell us what are the mammals of choice for, say, fundamentalist Christians, apart from other women than their wives, of course?"
Wouldn't know, since fundamentalist Christians are not my specialty.
However, if it helps to restore a balance, I recall a joke from the Bible Belt in which an outraged pastor demands to know who among his parishioners is spreading vicious rumors that he is a member of KKK.
Upon which a young, attractive woman gets up and says:
"I might have been the source of those rumors.
But I didn't say that you were a member of Ku-Klux-Klan.
I simply revealed to my friend that you were a grand wizard under sheets."
Complain about this comment
Squirrelpost:
"We would like to bring to people's attention to another exampleof both terrorism (against our feathered friends) and 'spin'. It doesn't matter that some birds are combatting the predatory terrorism of The Greys by increasing procreation. This (though valiant) is not the answer. You don't win against terrorist activity just through numbers alone. You re-educate them so their are more aware and sympathetic to their fellow-beings and provide them with other means of subsistence.
"Though we might, understandably in the current circumstances, where we too are at risk of extinction from the 'grey plague', be tempted to call for their extermination, we nonetheless hold to our established tenets of socialist squirrility, cannot even bring ourselves to support culling (as Prince Charles has suggested) and desire peaceful co-existence.
"Our sympathy and support go to those most at risk from the greys: the common blackbird, Eurasian collared dove, green woodpecker, long-tailed tit and Eurasian jay.
"PS: Squirrelkind abominates any sexual interaction with the human species. Any suggestion (to call it a 'slur' is to put it far too mildly) that squirrels might habitually indulge in such practices will make it even harder than it is now to restrain our militant wing from violent action. As those who utter this kind if black propaganda should realise. We don't even accuse the greys of eating human babies, though we wouldn't put it past some of them if they're allowed to develop their nasty carnivorous instincts."
Complain about this comment
192. At 12:21pm on 09 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
I'm sure you remember what happened not only over but also IN Lockerbee.
Very well. I knew someone on that flight. But that is irrelevant. That doesn't address my point.
Complain about this comment
199. At 1:13pm on 09 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"However, if it helps to restore a balance. . ."
It doesn't.Full stop.
Complain about this comment
198. At 1:02pm on 09 Jan 2010, redrooster wrote:
"in my humble opinion you are a fine body of men - individually"
And an even finer body of women. (It must be the plastic surgery.) Or maybe that's more films than real life . . .
Complain about this comment
Ref 203, squirrelist
"And an even finer body of women. (It must be the plastic surgery.) Or maybe that's more films than real life . . ."
In more ways than just plastic surgery.
My granddaughter enrolled in paramedic training this week. She is the only female in a class of about 25 students and on the first day of class she sat patiently listening to the instructor lecture the class about the problems females have dealing with the traumatic experiences associated with being a paramedic.
Complain about this comment
197. At 12:53pm on 09 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"P.S. Let me also assure you that we are not going to attack/bomb United Kingdom just because quite a few terrorists trying to do us harm have been..British subjects."
When you read 'opinions' like this by one Robert Leiken, one wonders if we dare be quite so certain, since much the same argument was put forward for bombing Libya before, and Yemen now:
"if we begin to point fingers at Britain, we will need two hands. The danger from Britain has its source in nearly every institution in British society: a Parliament that cannot pass counterterrorism legislation, police that do not arrest because evidence is not strong enough to convince a British court, security agencies that do not disclose to the media information about suspects, Islamic organizations that tell Muslims that such silence proves that the suspects have been falsely accused, a press that allows the public to believe such claims, jurors who then hold prosecutors to impossible standards and a once-glorious culture of tolerance that has lost its bearings.
"London has become a fertile field in the jihadi playground, along with Yemen, Pakistan and Somalia. Our great friend has allowed herself to become a strategic resource to our common enemies and a liability in the struggle against terrorism."
[Editor's note: Robert S. Leiken in the director of National Security and Immigration Programs at The Nixon Center]
(It seems supposedly clever Harvard graduates are far from immune from wanting a breath or two of the 'oxygen of publicity' when a popular cause might profit them.)
Complain about this comment
193. At 12:23pm on 09 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"Squirrelist: it seems your grey cousins have been much maligned. Comment?"
The Party says: "See 200, and a right struggle it was getting our spokeshuman out from under his duvet for that too. Bit of snow and cold, you've no idea how these humans whinge and moan about it."
Complain about this comment
206:
The cold (frozen fingers and unheated keyboard) probably accounts for the spelling mistakes. Sorry. But honestly, if the squirrels wanted a spokeshuman in this weather they should have picked someone who's half Inuit, not half Italian. . .
Complain about this comment
204. SaintDominick:
Well, she can retaliate by explaining to her (no doubt sceptical) classmates and trainer how pathetic men are when suffering pain and how much they tend to exaggerate it by comparison with women.
(I trained as a nurse once, though a while ago now, and I remember that from then, and it's been confirmed by experience. Must be plenty of 'respectable' references to it.)
Complain about this comment
205:
Leiken is, it appears, rather more circumspect and less gung-ho when it's closer to home. (I wonder why that should be?) For example, at a conference:
He "stressed that he does not view Mexican immigrants as a direct danger to homeland security. The Muslim communities in Latin America are small and moderate. There are no demonstrated links between Al-Qaeda and Latin American guerilla or terrorist groups. However, the presence of a large illegal immigrant population does create a market for fraudulent documents and a network for smuggling people into the U.S. And illegal immigrants helped several of the 9/11 hijackers obtain driver’s licenses."
[From the Nixon Center's website.]
As Sofa King reminded us it's not where you're at, it's where you're coming from. . .
Complain about this comment
Ref 192 powermeekat-
"However, are you aware that had Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab succeded
large chunks of Northwest airliner would have fallen on one of the largest Arab/Muslim communities in the U.S.?"
Most likely Dearborn, Detroit, and Hamtramck (where the larger collections of Muslims live) would not have seen any wreckage falling from the sky. Typically, final approach into Detroit Metro Airport is over the northern suburbs. Depending on just how far into the final approach the attempt to ignite the explosives took place; populated areas in Essex County, Ontario, Canada and the suburban communities of Macomb and Oakland Counties, Michigan where more likely to suffer the fallout from the wreckage. It is also likely that the plane was over Lake Erie at the time.
Complain about this comment
0 210.publiusdetroit wrote:
"Most likely Dearborn, Detroit, and Hamtramck (where the larger collections of Muslims live) would not have seen any wreckage falling from the sky."
Even that doesn't matter; Meerkat is dangling red herrings. As others have.
The point is that these suicidal bombers don't care. Many of those who died or were injured in the London Tube bombings (and obviously, the vast majority who have died in these attacks in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan) were Muslims.
It seems all too easy to somehow maintain an impression that only white-skinned Christians (especially American ones) are at risk of getting blown up. I've no idea, but since the plane that was the target in December was KLM from Holland, it's quite likely there were passengers whose native origin would have been the once Dutch East Indies who were believers in Islam. Or native-born Dutch who were, for that matter.
Didn't seem to give the guy much pause for thought when he joined the plane. Any more than it did when the London bombers stepped off the platform to get onto their trains.
It is a very warped indoctrination--and mercifully not as widespread as many would like to think--that leads some 'believers' to believe that either other believers are infidel too and therefore deserve to die; or will as a result of their actions, go to Paradise along with them.
Complain about this comment
Re #202
Well, if it doesn't so perhaps you will start to protest against "KKK members from the Bible Belt" slurs as well?
And " racist U.S. white males"?
[correct me if I'm wrong but I somehow don't recall you having done that]
If you give, you must also be prepared receive.
And if you want to be a controller, or a minder, you should try to keep up at lease some appearences of impartiality.
Complain about this comment
Also; to lessen the danger to large, densely populated suburban communities; a heavily damaged plane would likely be routed to Selfridge Air National Guard base where the final approach can come in over Lake St. Clair and there would be sufficient emergency facilities to handle the passengers and aircraft.
Complain about this comment
Ref 208, squirrelist
"Well, she can retaliate by explaining to her (no doubt sceptical) classmates and trainer how pathetic men are when suffering pain and how much they tend to exaggerate it by comparison with women."
What I told her when I heard what she had to say was that at least she is now guaranteed to earn the same as her macho counterparts thanks to legislation passed a few months ago as part of Obama's "socialist" agenda.
My daughter and her family are all Republicans and I enjoy having a little fun with them...until they start praising Rush, that's when they get even and things get ugly...well, not for long...
Complain about this comment
209 Squirrelist
Leiken should get more up to date (or learn to use Google!!) He says (from the quote in your post)
"There are no demonstrated links between Al-Qaeda and Latin American guerilla or terrorist groups."
Yet in a matter of seconds I was able to find THIS....
"A federal criminal complaint charges three African men (Oumar Issa, Harouna Touré and Idriss Abelrahman) -- alleged members of the terrorist groups al Qaeda and al Qaeda in the Islamic Magreb (AQIM) -- with conspiring to commit acts of narco-terrorism and conspiracy to provide material support to FARC, another U.S. designated terrorist group located in Colombia.
The criminal complaint contends that several confidential sources of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) played a key role in the case, discovering that the three defendants openly held themselves out as member of al Qaeda or AQIM, and were willing to help transport cocaine through Africa for FARC to help facilitate narcotic trade to Europe."
http://blogs.findlaw.com/courtside/2009/12/3-charged-in-al-qaeda-narco-terrorism-conspiracy-case.html
Complain about this comment
squirrelist
more Leiken pseudo-intellectual spin (or bigotry dressed up with fancy words)
"And illegal immigrants helped several of the 9/11 hijackers obtain driver’s licenses."
So this "fact" subtly adds fuel to the anti-immigrant (ok anti-Mexican) fire.
Still, it's better than blaming the intelligence services or the flight schools who didn't seem to notice that landing practise was not required!
People like Leiken are more dangerous than Limbaugh et al. as they dress their vile ideas up with PhDs and fancy words.
Complain about this comment
Re #205 squirrelist quotes:
"Our great friend [Great Britain] has allowed herself to become a strategic resource to our common enemies and a liability in the struggle against terrorism."
That's not exactly a completely incorrect statement, is it, now?
However meerkats, or at least this meerkat, try not to seek perfidy and malice in actions which can be explained by plain stupidity.
So, squirrelist, "useful idiots"; nothing more ominous than that.
And you don't bomb useful idiots just becasue they are useful idiots.
However, it seems they are bombed by those who consider them useless idiots.
Although, in reality, they should cherish those who give them safe haven and madrassas to educate themselves in - like golden eggs laying geese.
P.S. You can rest assured that certain Anglican Archbishop who advocates "introducing some Sharia laws into UK in order to increase social harmony" is not going to be attacked/bombed by anybody.
Well, at least not from THIS side of the Pond.
Even, I suspect, if you include our 'pernicious Bible Belt'.
Complain about this comment
100. At 5:00pm on 08 Jan 2010, David Murrell wrote:
“Powereerkat – No we were never given a referendum, as I believe you well know.”
This shows one difference between how democracy is understood in EU/UK and the US. You shouldn’t have to be “given” a referendum, it is the citizens’ right to control their government. Your governments should not be ignoring the people and denying them the right to approve or reject such important laws [call them treaties if you will].
Another difference is that EU/UK people seem to believe that they can transfer their sovereign rights [considered inalienable by Americans] to their elected officials, thus leaving said officials solely responsible for constitutional matters.
Americans believe that their right to control the government is inalienable, and put this belief into practice. California is a well-known case of the extreme that that can lead to.
Democracy is under direct threat by the governments and bureaucrats in EU/UK in this case. Democracy is being undermined in the US not so much by the government but by the malign and corrupt influence of the big corporations.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
213. publiusdetroit wrote:
I think the pilot would attempt to land a heavily-damaged plane as soon as possible wherever he or she saw a chance. And don't let's deceive ourselves: if a USAAF pilot were to fire at a civilian airliner to prevent it being exploded over a densely populated area (or anywhere else) it won't be merely 'damaged'. What would be the point? You can't target a would-be bomber in 'Seat A45', or the loo, from a fighter plane.
Nor can you 'escort' a plane to where a pilot either cannot or is unwilling to fly it.
My point perhaps wasn't clear enough. To send fighter aircraft after a plane only makes sense when the aircraft has been taken over and is itself to be used as a weapon. And in which case the destruction of the plane and the people aboard it is clearly inevitable. I wouldn't want to be the pilot, though, even then. Perhaps the job could be contracted out to Xe (previously Blackwater); they may have employees who would be indifferent. It's of no value whatsoever if you think someone is going to blow himself up in the lavatory.
I'm just giving an example of how, either, some things are not being thought through, or they are being done only for effect.
Complain about this comment
Ref 218 JMM-
"Democracy is being undermined in the US not so much by the government but by the malign and corrupt influence of the big corporations."
Corporations do not have a vote in our elections. The citizens do hold that vote. The responsibility of how our government functions is solely up to the electorate. Since we elect, and re-elect, representatives who have fallen under the influence of corporations; it is "We the People..." who fail our own governance.
Complain about this comment
215. At 3:44pm on 09 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
(Quoted, rather): "The criminal complaint contends that several confidential sources of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) played a key role in the case discovering that the three defendants openly held themselves out as members of al Qaeda or AQIM. . ."
Now why does that sentence make me ever so slightly suspicious? It's all a bit like charging a mother who was overheard saying "I could kill that child" with conspiracy to murder. . .I cannot, I must say, see that that claim would impress the FARC much. Or that these men's offer would have been much use to them. Sounds like no more than silly boasting in a bar.
Complain about this comment
216. At 3:52pm on 09 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"People like Leiken are more dangerous than Limbaugh et al. as they dress their vile ideas up with PhDs and fancy words."
Agreed. as are people who think a joke about heterosexual potency under the sheets is no different to one that suggests every member of a religious group practices bestiality.
(And I shall say no more about something that ought to be obvious.)
Complain about this comment
222 squirrelist
I have no idea whether it's true or not ... but it seems likely in the big picture that AQ will follow the easy route to money taken by the IRA and others by teaming up with the narcos in Latin America.
The fact that they are using black Africans as the pawns these days is surely also a direct result of profiling Arabs!
Complain about this comment
216. At 3:52pm on 09 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"squirrelist: Still, it's better than blaming the intelligence services or the flight schools who didn't seem to notice that landing practise was not required!"
Umm, it hadn't occurred to me; can you learn to fly just with a driver's licence in the US?
Complain about this comment
Ref 220 squirrelist-
You either failed to include my quote in the above referenced post, or misquoted me.
At any rate; if it were the intent of the suicide bomber to detonate his device upon final approach into Detroit Metro Airport to cause additional collateral damage over a heavily populated area, Detroit would have been a poor choice. All but the last couple of minutes in the approach would have been over large lakes and more sparsely populated areas.
A heavily damaged aircraft on final approach into Detroit Metro Airport would also have at least four different, very nearby airports along the final approach lanes, over even more sparsely populated areas, in which to land.
I have not read that the KLM airliner was being 'escorted' by the USAAF, nor the Michigan Air National Guard during the event.
Complain about this comment
158. At 00:19am on 09 Jan 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
Ref 139, redrooster
"Where would US troops be off to next?"
“In the Bush era it would have been a toss up between Bali and Paraguay.”
I think I disagree with the target choice. W would have targeted a country with which he had a personal beef, with oil or where big corporations were looking for a killing; so, maybe Nigeria or Venezuela.
A more devious choice might be Yemen. If they have more oil than believed Bush and his handholding close friends the Saudis might both be interested and the risk of terrorism from Yemen would be a convenient cover.
184. At 11:49am on 09 Jan 2010, redrooster wrote:
“By the way foreign troops have been in the middle east for centuries not decades, and the biggest mistake of the twentieth century was allowing the creation of a new state in the middle east in 1948.”
Yes and no. Palestine, had it been created instead of Israel, would also have likely been a source of trouble. Israel is a good example of what happens when you try to rectify the mistakes of history by creating “new facts on the ground.” We will soon see what the results of historical rectification by presidents Chavez and Morales are. I do hope for the best but fear for the worst.
Complain about this comment
Ref 216, RomeStu
"And illegal immigrants helped several of the 9/11 hijackers obtain driver’s licenses."
When everything else fails blame the illegal immigrants, that's a tactic guaranteed success, particularly if the illegals are Mexican or Latin American. Europeans entering entering the USA illegally via our northern border are just undocumented and must get their paperwork in order before they can apply for permanent residence and citizenship.
Can you imagine what would happen to a cop responsible for arresting a Ukranian grandmother just because she did not have papers and did not speak English?
In any case, if the economy shows signs of improvement in the near future and unemployment levels go down you can count on illegal immigration being the centerpiece of the GOP campaign strategy for November.
Complain about this comment
Re #194 RomeStu wrote:
Meerkat
"P.S. I didn't realize that wanting to have sex with 72 virgins in paradise rather than with camels or donkeys amounts to an ideology."
RomeStu: It may not be much in the way of an ideology .... But it certainly would be better from the camels' and donkeys' point of view!
There are many people who are ready to defend squirrels.
[inc. red ones who don't eat red herrings and like only Acorn[s])
Even some willing to defend meerkats.
But nobody, seems to care about abused camels. :-(
Although there is no shortage of those excusing camel drivers.
I wonder, why is that?
Complain about this comment
Re #218 JMM
Anti-capitalist protests in UK.
But when I as here whether in view of such strong sentiments Labour Party is not going to win election in a couple of months hands down
- I get no reply.
I wonder why that is.
BTW. Who's going to win it? And why?
Complain about this comment
228. At 5:30pm on 09 Jan 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
Ref 216, RomeStu
"And illegal immigrants helped several of the 9/11 hijackers obtain driver’s licenses."
_____________________-
In the interests of clarity .... the above is a quote from Robert Leiken (see posts 205,209 and others) which I was using to show the ends to which some conservative "intellectuals" will go to sway the public.
Obviously the above statement is not a reflection of my views or opinion.
Complain about this comment
226. publiusdetroit :
Yes, I did miss the quote:
"Also; to lessen the danger to large, densely populated suburban communities; a heavily damaged plane would likely be routed to Selfridge Air National Guard base"
But I have been referring mainly to the two incidents since when fighters have been scrambled to 'escort' planes because of the behaviour of a passenger, the latest of whom had refused to come out of the toilet. (No report I've seen has explained why but it wasn't because he was trying to build and explode a bomb.)
Complain about this comment
Ref 228 SaintDominick-
"Europeans entering entering the USA illegally via our northern border are just undocumented and must get their paperwork in order before they can apply for permanent residence and citizenship."
Would like to know where your facts come to support this assertion. Have you ever gained entry into the U.S. by crossing the Canadian border? U.S. Customs and Immigration officials are very thorough and alert all along our northern border. Canadian Customs and Immigration are just as thorough and alert of those crossing into their Nation.
I cross the border into, and returning from, Canada on a very frequent basis.
Complain about this comment
228. SaintDominick:
If they happened to shoot and kill her, so she couldn't speak for herself, I'm sure press reports would appear the same day telling us someone who looked like her, or had a similar name, had accessed the website of some radical cleric; had a notepad by her phone on which the letters "AQ" appeared (via "sources who wished to be anonymous because this information concerned National Security") and people in the same town would explain they had often overheard her talking in "a language that sounded like Arabic".
Etc. etc.
Complain about this comment
Ref 232 squirrelist
Thanks, Nutter. Your reference to someone in the "loo" caused me to wonder if the Squirrel Party had an operative among the BBC moderators due to a reference of someone in the lavatory I made in post #219 which never saw the light. You've cleared that up for me.
Complain about this comment
233. publiusdetroit:
Perhaps it hasn't dawned on the US immigration services (or whoever is responsible for the balloon on the border) either. Or perhaps it really is just watching the weather? Or admiring the scenery? Must be a nice view from up there. Maybe they're taking pics for the "Border Crosser of the Month Calendar? Perhaps the Canadians' 'moon the balloon' protest was focussed on the wrong people . . .They could have another, when the weather warms up maybe.
Complain about this comment
Somebody tell the Meerkat that (to copy the NRA) people do not abuse camels, camels abuse people. (As anyone who's tried to ride one of those creatures knows. They are proof that if God exists, He is a sadist. Or that evolution still hasn't been going long enough to correct some of its worst mistakes.) But that still doesn't excuse what he wrote the first time.
Complain about this comment
237 squirrel
Camels have just got the hump(h)! And they're still not happy.
Remember your Kipling.
Complain about this comment
Re #233 publiusdetorit wrote:
U.S. Customs and Immigration officials are very thorough and alert all along our northern border. Canadian Customs and Immigration are just as thorough and alert of those crossing into their Nation.
I cross the border into, and returning from, Canada on a very frequent basis.
I seem to recall that certain ... subject with car trunk full of explosives was stopped and arrested on that very border.
I also know that Candians are doing more than most in Afghanistan.
[instead of washing dishes and serving meals in officer's mess in Kabul
like some... oh, well...]
But never let facts stand in the way of you propaganda.
How did RR put it?
"They'll lie, they'll cheat, the'll stoop to anything..."
Whereas Jean Kirkpatrick observed: "They ALWAYS blame America first".
But it doesn't matter.
Complain about this comment
Ref 236 squirrelist
Alas, the balloon is gone. Although there still are towers with high-resolution video cameras picketed along the St. Clair and Detroit Rivers to watch every move those sinister, poutine-eaters make. Imagine how cunning and devious a people must be who put cheese curds and (of all things) gravy on their french fries!
Oh! No! The cameras might have even spotted me eating that vile concoction while strolling along the riverfront in Windsor. I must be more careful. Only eat poutine farther inland. Could have an effect on returning to the States after enjoying such decadence.
Complain about this comment
Ref 239 powermeerkat-
"I seem to recall that certain ... subject with car trunk full of explosives was stopped and arrested on that very border."
Does this not prove my point that the U.S. Customs and Immigrations are alert and doing their job well?
Neither Canada, nor the U.S. stops and checks every vehicle leaving their respective countries. Only those entering their countries.
""They'll lie, they'll cheat, the'll stoop to anything..."
Whereas Jean Kirkpatrick observed: "They ALWAYS blame America first"."
Which they are being referred to in these quotes? The Canadians?
I find the largest majority of Canadians I know to be honest and very ethical. Although, there was that girl who told me I was the only one...
Maybe you're right. I should stop going over to that amoral, hockey-crazed land of little character. :-D
Complain about this comment
Ref 233, publiusdetroit
I apologize for my generalization.
The point I tried to make, rather awkawrdly, is that the visceral hatred that is evident against Hispanic "illegal" immigrants in some segments of our society is not evident against recent immigrants from other nations.
Excuses, such as the fact that they don't speak English, are seldom used against immigrants from other nations; raids to arrest and deport Hispanics would elicit instant condemnation if they were carried out against members of other ethnic groups in the USA and would be, correctly, labeled unconstitutional.
The discrimination against Hispanics - not just illegals - in the USA is a blemish on our society and undermines our claim of being a nation of law and order with equal rights for all.
Millions of Mexicans and Central Americans have entered our country without the necessary visas because of the misery they endured in their homelands, they don't do it because they love our political system or our way of life, but because our country offers economic opportunities that do not exist where they lived before they came here.
More often than not they perform jobs most of us refuse to do, work for wages we would not accept under any circumstances, without benefits, and under such conditions that at the risk of being accused of using hyperbole to make a point I would say is close to semi-slavery.
We could end illegal immigration today by revising our immigration laws, or simply by not offering employment to those that enter our country without papers, but fair immigration reform is political dynamite and the chances of unscrupulous entrepreneurs not taking advantage of those who can not complain to enrich themselves, or our rich - and not so rich - passing up the opportunity to hire a nanny or a landscaper for peanuts are simply too tempting ignore.
Complain about this comment
Sure. But then, how do you explain Saudi Arabia's Air Force bombing the pants off Yemeni thug...err...."freedom fighters".?
Perhaps Saudis know of more oil in Yemen than CIA? :-))))))))))))))))))))
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Err, because saudi arabia claims that those freedom fighters enter their borders.Now, remind me, didnt usa refuse to remove its troops from saudi arabia when majortiy of arabians who arent the sauds..demanded the saud king to tell the usa to take its troops back..the usa said its troops were there to protect the country from some make belive threat by iraq, and now, when saudi arabia is attacked from yemen, the americans are all quiet and would rather saudis fight themselves or on behalf of americans..
Complain about this comment
SaintDominick, in post #242, implies that Hispanics are targeted by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) merely for being illegal aliens. This is not the case. Such raids generally target persons who have already been ordered deported who have either not left or who have returned, and persons who are suspected of criminal activity.
Hispanics seem to get more attention because there are a great many more of them in the US illegally than other groups. I have heard that as much as 10% of the population of Mexico was in the US a few years ago. Some of these people are serious criminals, associated with Mexican and Central American drug cartels, who control the illegal drug business in the western US.
I live in one of the most diverse ares of the United States, and I must say that I do not see "visceral hatred" directed against Hispanics out of proportion to their representation in the population. In fact, I see very little "visceral hatred" at all.
Here is a link to a recent article on ICE raids in California: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/09/statewide-immig.html">from LA Times
Complain about this comment
Canada was just not a very good example to use in way of making your point about the discrimination and even lawless reprisal facing immigrants from south of the U.S. border in the way you attempted. As a matter of fact, Canada would be the country to look at when we consider our own tolerance of immigrants. A more shining example.
Few people immigrating to Canada do so as a stepping stone to get into the United States. Immigrants tend to go there as their specific immigration destination and remain there. One may find outright discrimination against immigrants in Canada. However, one would need to look carefully to find it. Job opportunities are present even for new immigrants. Universal health-care sees to their well-being. Social programs help assimilation. Good housing is available. Communities demonstrate acceptance of the new immigrants. The immigrants quickly become tax-payers and citizens.
Legal employment adds to the tax base. Imagine such a thing!
Complain about this comment
the two countries fighting the war on terror with their incompetent soldiers, not at all intellegent inteligence agents, their lazy beaurocrats propogandist media, lying political leaders and combination of all of the above citizen. One country deliberately or non deliberately fails to connect the dots...and the other one has an embassy which misplaces hundreds of passports of people of one of the country on the pornographic booth list....And who has to pay the price of all this with their lives and livlihoods, the muslims...Nice game going on for the past 9 years..
Complain about this comment
Ref 243 colonelartist-
"Err, because saudi arabia claims that those freedom fighters enter their borders.Now, remind me, didnt usa refuse to remove its troops from saudi arabia when majortiy of arabians who arent the sauds..demanded the saud king to tell the usa to take its troops back..."
Was it not the King of Saudi Arabia who requested the U.S to bring troops as quickly as possible to defend against what the people of Saudi Arabia perceived to be a threat to their Nation from Iraq?
I know a very large group of U.S. citizens who were not real happy they were called from their jobs and homes to answer that anxious plea from Saudi Arabia. They were welcomed with open arms and every hospitality was extended to them when they arrived in the Kingdom.
I do agree that we should have left the arena as quickly as the war ended. Frankly; I never believed we should have gone there in the first place. However, once again; the rulers of Saudi Arabia requested, in no uncertain terms, that U.S. troops remain on their soil.
Shouldn't the citizens of Saudi Arabia be looking to change their leadership with more determination if the majority of them wish the U.S. troops leave their soil and the King refuses their demands? U.S. troops remain in Saudi Arabia at the pleasure of the King and his ruling party.
Complain about this comment
Was it not the King of Saudi Arabia who requested the U.S to bring troops as quickly as possible to defend against what the people of Saudi Arabia perceived to be a threat to their Nation from Iraq?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
USA forced saudian saud king to invite them to saudi arabia to defend him against some make believe threat from Iraq.....the same strategy soviet union used to occupy afghanistan, a war against which ben laden fought. Now, connect the dots...What do you think alqaida was doing when it was of fighting against the saud royals ? before usa internationalized this whole mess, it was just limited inside saudi arabia...USA slowly but surely extended it..and is still extending it...they claim they have the oil reserves to last for hundered yrs, ask them to start using it....instead of other people's resources or do they want to exhaust other people's resources first......they use other people's countries as battlefield and go beserk as they dont have to think about the civilian lives, the buildings the infra structure and they waste other people's resources with the same intensity as well...
Complain about this comment
Job opportunities are present even for new immigrants. Universal health-care sees to their well-being.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Which job opportunities? engineers cannot work as engineers, doctors cannot work as doctors, welders cannot work as welders, teachers not as teachers...It was in canada that i met all those migrant professionals working in factories or stupid clerical jobs...
Complain about this comment
249 colonelartist
Credential approval streamlined for foreign professionals. Hopefully this also applies to the migrant professionals working in factories, who you met.
Complain about this comment
Ref 249 colonelartist-
"Which job opportunities? engineers cannot work as engineers, doctors cannot work as doctors, welders cannot work as welders, teachers not as teachers...It was in canada that i met all those migrant professionals working in factories or stupid clerical jobs..."
Did you ask these engineers, doctors, welders, and teachers why they then chose to immigrate to Canada and take employment in other jobs? They must have had a reason to uproot their lives to begin again in a new country, accepting employment that you seem to think is below their dignity. Immigration to Canada was their choice. Canadians did not force them to immigrate to their country.
Complain about this comment
RE 241 publiusdetorit skas:
Does this not prove my point that the U.S. Customs and Immigrations are alert and doing their job well?
And Canadians too. That's precisely what I saying.
NORAD cooperation is also continuing very smoothly.
[Btw. Mounties did pretty good job with their investigation and preemptive arrests of the...hm...pretty explosive characters of the third kind in the country south od Detroit. ;)]
And as to who lies and cheats and swindles just to promulgate their anti-American propagada, and who always blames America first...
I refer you to the original speeches by Ronald Reagan and Jean Kirkpatrick, if you don't know them, that is.
I don't think camels or even camels' lovers would find them offensive.
But camel drivers' lovers - might.
Complain about this comment
Did you ask these engineers, doctors, welders, and teachers why they then chose to immigrate to Canada and take employment in other jobs? They must have had a reason to uproot their lives to begin again in a new country, accepting employment that you seem to think is below their dignity. Immigration to Canada was their choice. Canadians did not force them to immigrate to their country.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Most of them I talked to, stay there for as long they are reqiired to do so in order to get the citizenship, then they pack up and go back to their country of origin and either work or start a bussiness...I think the canadians should just allow young people between from 18 to 23 to migrate..such people are neither here nor there and they can afford to waste some years doing the factory work or the like...
Complain about this comment
Did you ask these engineers, doctors, welders, and teachers why they then chose to immigrate to Canada and take employment in other jobs? They must have had a reason to uproot their lives to begin again in a new country, accepting employment that you seem to think is below their dignity.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
When a doctor does some clerical work, ofcource its below his dignity...He didnt didnt go to five or six yrs to medical college and studied hard day and night to work as some clerk... and an engineer or a welder does study to work in some factores making some car parts or the like..And what is more stupid is, when the migrant proffessional say doctor talks to a canadian doctor, they have the same level of knowldge...same goes for engineers..and welders..and even nurses..
Complain about this comment
Ref 253 colonelartist-
"Most of them I talked to, stay there for as long they are reqiired to do so in order to get the citizenship, then they pack up and go back to their country of origin and either work or start a bussiness..."
What is the point of becoming a Canadian citizen if all they intend to do is to "pack up and go back to their country of origin"? Why lose all those earnings? Why not work or start a business in their country of origin from the start? Seems they are choosing a complex way to achieve something.
Complain about this comment
Ref 245, publiusdetroit
"Canada was just not a very good example to use in way of making your point about the discrimination and even lawless reprisal facing immigrants from south of the U.S. border in the way you attempted.:
I agree, everything I have read about Canada, and my very brief visit to Niagara Falls indicate Canada does not have the racial problems that still exist south of the border.
Ref 244, GH1618
"SaintDominick, in post #242, implies that Hispanics are targeted by US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) merely for being illegal aliens. This is not the case."
I am delighted to hear that there are parts of the country where brotherly love is the norm. I reckon I have lived - and live - in the wrong places.
A couple of years ago a good friend of mine, a Mexican-American, was asked to show ID when the police raided a 7-Eleven in a small city near where I live. The reason, in addition to physiognomy, was that he was talking in Spanish to a couple of Mexican American workers. My friend was born in Texas, where his parents, grandparents and great grandparents were born.
A few months before the real estate collapse the local police raided a house where Hispanics were installing a tiled roof on a new house. All were arrested and taken away. It took the contractor a couple of months to find replacements...Hispanics who finished the job in a couple of days.
A few years ago, while waiting in line at a McDonalds near my neighborhood, a white man began to yell at two Hispanics who were having trouble ordering their food because of linguistic limitations. His ire was centered on the fact that Hispanics who don't speak English should not be in the USA. The situation got ugly when my wife, who was born in Spain, began to argue with the guy and pointed out the reluctance of Americans to learn foreign languages when they go overseas.
I live in a small city in central Florida. Not far from where I live there are farms where Hispanic laborers work and live in makeshift shacks not too dissimilar from what you could find in the most impoverished countries in Latin America. They don't do it because they enjoy the living conditions, they do it because they are afraid to get caught by the "migra" if they try to rent a house or an apartment.
One of my neighbors is absolutely convinced that my ancestry can not be from Spain because I am white. He has assured me, repeatedly, that my lineages must be from Italy or Portugal. When he told me sometime ago that his daughter and son are both receiving disability benefits because they are bi-polar and can not work I asked him how could he be a Republican and take advantage of such a "socialist" program (I know, that was very insensitive on my part). His answer was unequivocal: because the Democratic party is the party of n.....s.
Those are the type of realities I have dealt with all my life and that can be found in most cities and towns in the USA. I am not suggesting the climate that existed until 5 or 6 decades ago still exists, but being Hispanic in the USA is not easy.
Complain about this comment
What is the point of becoming a Canadian citizen if all they intend to do is to "pack up and go back to their country of origin"? Why lose all those earnings? Why not work or start a business in their country of origin from the start? Seems they are choosing a complex way to achieve something
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Globalization....You are lucky you asked these questions to me, If you had asked this to an indian, you would have to hear a lecture, they are very proud of their what they call Non resident indians, and those NRI's claim that they are the ones responsible for indians eco.growth...Now, allow me, you get the canadian citizen, you come back, you open a bussiness...getting loans, you open a private hospital, contact a few known doctors to sit to work a few hours in that hospital...real money making...if you are more ambitious, contact some proffessors both within the country of origin and lets say canada, and open a private medical school or mulitnational private hospital....same goes for engineers...
Complain about this comment
Ref 248 colonelartist-
"USA forced saudian saud king to invite them to saudi arabia to defend him against some make believe threat from Iraq..."
As I remember the events after the invasion of Kuwait; the King of Saudi Arabia wasn't being forced by any one to invite them to his Kingdom. The dear fellow was sending out invitations like a young debutant inviting guests to her first party. Thirty four nations chose to accept a place at the King's table. Even some interesting folks from Niger, Sierra Leone, Morocco, Singapore, the Philippines. Bangladesh even showed up at the party.
The people of the Kingdom were really worried nobody would come to their rescue. They welcomed everyone with open arms. A lot of news coverage showing just how relieved they were.
Complain about this comment
Ref 253, colonelartist
"Most of them I talked to, stay there for as long they are reqiired to do so in order to get the citizenship, then they pack up and go back to their country of origin and either work or start a bussiness..."
I have met - and know - many people that migrated to other countries and after satisfying their financial objectives returned to their homeland where they started a business or retired, one of them was my father, but I never met one that migrated to another country simply to obtain a different citizenship and then went back to his/her homeland. What's the point of doing that?
Did your friends do that because they felt persecuted or discriminated against in their own country and needed the protection of another country, obtained through naturalization, to work and live in peace in their own country?
Complain about this comment
Colonalartist it is surprising to see you defend the saud kings
Complain about this comment
Ref 258, colonel
I just read your answer to Publius. Are you suggesting Afghans can not get a loan and can not start a business and that the only way to get ahead is to become citizens of other countries? Sad state of affairs...
Complain about this comment
As I remember the events after the invasion of Kuwait; the King of Saudi Arabia wasn't being forced by any one to invite them to his Kingdom. The dear fellow was sending out invitations like a young debutant inviting guests to her first party. Thirty four nations chose to accept a place at the King's table. Even some interesting folks from Niger, Sierra Leone, Morocco, Singapore, the Philippines. Bangladesh even showed up at the party.
The people of the Kingdom were really worried nobody would come to their rescue. They welcomed everyone with open arms. A lot of news coverage showing just how relieved they were.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You remember extremely wrong....first of all the people of kingdom,including their forgein minister were extremely against gulf war 1, but he was quetly sidelined by the americans...After saddam's defeat only america was scared that defeated iraq would invade saudi arabia...no one else was...but since the saud's are dictators and mercilessly on the mercy of americans...so they do what usa says, and if usa said, invite us, they did just that...in this way the sauds protected themselves from the people they rule, who basically wanted to get rid of saud family...
Complain about this comment
A lot of news coverage showing just how relieved they were.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am sure, your children will say the same about iraq occupation...when your media will only show a a few hundred people pulling down saddam's statue..
Complain about this comment
I just read your answer to Publius. Are you suggesting Afghans can not get a loan and can not start a business and that the only way to get ahead is to become citizens of other countries? Sad state of affairs...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
You should have thought about that before invading the countires or stopping them from developing...No use of being sad...its like sheding corcodile's tears..there are other small advantages, like, if you have a canadian passport, you dont have to apply for visa and pay heavy visa fees to the rich countries...and when you retire, you get the pension or if you get sick, you get other benefits...currency exchange rate, benefits or retirment money spend in south asia, can live quite comfortably..
Complain about this comment
Ref 257 colonelartist-
"Globalization....You are lucky you asked these questions to me..."
I am happy you used the doctor/hospital business to explain the value of a Canadian passport to me. Easy to understand. Pretty similar to the way health-care professionals work here in the States. It is also a "real money making" way of accumulating quick wealth. Also explains why health-care is so expensive here in the States, since the same medical business practices are in use.
The factory-worker/doctor makes some Loonies and Toonies on the assembly lines in Canada for a couple years. Gets their Canadian citizenship. Jumps on the first plane out of Saskatoon and goes back to gather wealth on the basis of his Canadian citizenship. Doesn't sound like too bad a deal to me. Odd, but understandable.
Complain about this comment
Colonalartist it is surprising to see you defend the saud kings
------------------------------------------------------------------------
i have nothing against the saudi kings...i am just telling him what happened between saudi king and his citizens and the role of usa..which took saudi king's side making him more dictator because his opponents got more aggresive as they saw usa supporting the king...
Complain about this comment
I just can't take the praise without raise
oh no thats what they are giving giving today
oh oh the man with the money he is having fun
woh woh while the man down here is having none
blood sweat and tears that's all we get everyday
Praise Without Raise (*)
More Bargain (*)
(*)=Pad Anthony
Complain about this comment
238. At 6:28pm on 09 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"237 squirrel
Camels have just got the hump(h)! And they're still not happy."
Ah, but the Sphinx is, do you know that one? You'll have to imagine the first lines yourself, I'll never get them past the mods, but it ends:
". . . . . .
[unsuitable lines would be deleted by mods]
Blocked up by the sands of the Nile,
Which accounts for the hump on the camel,
And the Sphinx's inscrutable smile."
(Do his pomes come free with his cakes? I must have missed them.)
Complain about this comment
I recall vividly that US troops were greeted very warmly in Kuwait.
There wasn't that much room there to spread at first. But once we started kicking Saddam's thugs out of there things got gradually better.
Nay, Kuwait even covered our business expenses in the end. :)
Oman has also been very gracious host.
Especially to USAF.
As for Jordan... No wonder that Nobel Peace Prize winner Yasser Arafat called his outfit Black September.
Complain about this comment
No business opportunities in Afghanistan?
Tell that to quite a few Russian, Ukrainian, etc., soldiers of the Soviet Army who stayed there, because they didn't want go back to USSR.
[No, they're not growing poppies. :)]
Complain about this comment
Ref 262 colonelartist-
"You remember extremely wrong..."
No, no, no. I remember it very well. Had a very vested interest in all that was going on in that corner of the world. I didn't buy the crap the State Department, the White House, and the news media were ladling out everyday. Had contacts with people on the ground in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Iraq. Have a pretty good understanding of just why it was that Saddam ordered the attack on Kuwait; and it is not the smoke and mirrors crap the world news media was pumping. Kuwait owed some money.
People in Saudi Arabia were adding compost to the sand all over Saudi Arabia in fear that Saddam would cross their border. Even though it was well evident that he was digging into a defensive position and not making movements toward the Kingdom. The man may be considered a fool. He was not an idiot.
I kept telling people here in the States just to let things be as they were. Tribal feud. Congratulate Saddam for his brilliant attack. Sit back and watch the sand blow.
The people of Saudi Arabia had, at that moment, the means to change their government.
Complain about this comment
I recall vividly that US troops were greeted very warmly in Kuwait.
There wasn't that much room there to spread at first. But once we started kicking Saddam's thugs out of there things got gradually better.
Nay, Kuwait even covered our business expenses in the end. :)
Oman has also been very gracious host.
Especially to USAF.
As for Jordan... No wonder that Nobel Peace Prize winner Yasser Arafat called his outfit Black September.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whats the use of half recall, the recall that suits you...I recall that kuwait was delievered back to the amir of kuwait,not his opponents as the western forces are trying to do both with iraq and afghanistan...
Complain about this comment
Ref 264 colonelartist-
"...if you have a canadian passport, you dont have to apply for visa and pay heavy visa fees to the rich countries...and when you retire, you get the pension or if you get sick, you get other benefits...currency exchange rate, benefits or retirment money spend in south asia, can live quite comfortably..."
Listen to the colonel. He is telling you how it works. He's not making this up to entertain us.
Complain about this comment
Tell that to quite a few Russian, Ukrainian, etc., soldiers of the Soviet Army who stayed there, because they didn't want go back to USSR.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
They were assimilated into the society..converted and married and did what the locals did...same goes for the many young islamists who came to afghanistan to fight the russians,married and stayed behind...until they were rounded up as terrorists and forgeiners... producing Somali, sudani, arabian looking kids who speak pashto...and acting like perfect pathans..
Complain about this comment
Just out of curiosity, colonel...
What does Ret'd stand for?
'cause it sure doesn't look like it stands for Ret. More like...
Complain about this comment
Listen to the colonel. He is telling you how it works. He's not making this up to entertain us.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------its kind of pathetic that you have to listen to me, a perfect easterner, so far- i say so far because i am thinking of being a neo settler in canada- on a bbc log for america to know how reality is. You have lots of such people in your country, strike up a conversation with anyone of them and ask them how the things work...instead of asking them questions if they think islamists are true muslims or not...Enlighten yourself,broaden your horizon..
Complain about this comment
The factory-worker/doctor makes some Loonies and Toonies on the assembly lines in Canada for a couple years. Gets their Canadian citizenship. Jumps on the first plane out of Saskatoon and goes back to gather wealth on the basis of his Canadian citizenship. Doesn't sound like too bad a deal to me. Odd, but understandable.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, i missed deliberatly one other, the typical types of doctors and engineers, they go to usa...it takes less time over there to work as doctors and engineers than in canada...And more quick way of getting richer...after 9/11 atleast the muslims have started buying property in the country of origins,some investing in bussinesses outside west, preferably in the UAE.. on just in case bases...Pre-emptive safety purposes...
Complain about this comment
Ref 272 colonelartist-
"I recall that kuwait was delievered back to the amir of kuwait,not his opponents as the western forces are trying to do both with iraq and afghanistan."
A will give George H. Bush the credit he deserves for clearly stating the military objectives for the Persian Gulf War. Also that he stuck to those objectives; which was to restore the status quo in Kuwait. GH Bush never stated that the Kuwaiti people would be liberated from the rule of the Emirs. The Kuwaiti people had the same opportunity as the Saudi Arabian people to depose their rulers at the time of the war. They failed to cease the initiative because they lacked leadership and personal commitment.
I dare say that I know many people who were surprised the Kuwaiti people didn't shoot down the airliners with the returning Emirs on board as they were coming in for a landing after the liberation of Kuwait from the Iraqi occupation. There were plenty of weapons gathered and hidden away by individuals which were more than capable of accomplishing that mission. The will did not exist. Embryonic, grass-root leadership failed.
Complain about this comment
What does Ret'd stand for?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
If I wrote it, and before my rank, it means retired...
Complain about this comment
" Two charged after Heathrow airliner security alert
There is heightened security at airports after failed Christmas Day bombings
A passenger has been charged with making a bomb threat which grounded a plane at London's Heathrow Airport on Friday night.
Robert Fowles, 58, from Dover, Kent, was also charged with being drunk on an aircraft, the Metropolitan Police said.
Alexander McGinn, 48, who is also from Dover, was also charged with being drunk on an aircraft" [BBC World Service]
How did they manage to bring any liquids on board. Especially fortified?
Hid them in their bladders?
Complain about this comment
256. SaintDominick:
One has to remember for our Gary, all is for the best in his possible world, including all the bridges . . .
He won't like this, and will say it's merely anecdotal, but a few days ago the BBC carried a report which tracked down some of 200 people who had been raided and deported in this way to their home village in Guatemala. It has no road by which to access it; no means for subsistence except the most basic of land plots; no school, education, employment; no electricity and no other services. Those who were left there depended almost entirely, therefore, on the remittances the younger people sent from the US and, consequently there employment.
The village is now bankrupt, effectively, with no hope of any income to get themselves out of poverty, which is what they were trying to do. By themselves. And now they cannot repay what they still owe to those who got their young people to the USA to try to help them get out of this mess in the first place. Their only option, almost certainly, is to abandon the village. And do what, where, when they do?
I imagine you must multiply this tale by many thousands, if not hundreds of thousands. But we must ask Gary to tell us how many thousands of illiterate, uneducated, immigrants successfully maintain their families and villages at home, manage to educate themselves, start businesses and become multi-millionaires.
I'm sure then both you and I will easily be convinced it is really the great majority; that what I have described involves only minuscule numbers. Just as I am sure those villagers in Guatemala had enough dollars stashed under the floorboards to buy themselves each a new 4X4 if they would only come clean about it. . .
(it could be Bangladesh or Somalia in Britain instead of Guatemala, of course. Even some provonces of China, for all the Chinese 'economic miracle'.
But then, they are not really human are they? They are no longer "immigrants"; not even "illegal immigrants". They are "aliens", now, aren't they? (At least we here have not--yet--adopted that deliberately dehumanising term.) Who knows, once thy get back home, into their own environment, they will revert to their rather sweet feline features, turn blue again, show their tails and become the distant avatar of the Noble Savage that can be admired from a safe, healthy, distance. (I did idly wonder if there was a subtext rather of that sort in Avatar, from some of the descriptions, but I haven't seen the film.)
(Do you know, I think I promised myself on my last birthday I wouldn't get as angry about this sort of thing as I used to be when I was a teenager? Must try to grow out of it this year. Or one year soon. . .)
Complain about this comment
The Kuwaiti people had the same opportunity as the Saudi Arabian people to depose their rulers at the time of the war. They failed to cease the initiative because they lacked leadership and personal commitment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The kuwaitis, arabians,like the iraqis and afghans were satisfied with their leaders...the disatisfaction of arabians with saud royals started when he allowed usa to make him invite the military...the disatisfaction of iraqis with saddam was limited to those failed iraqi power hungry people who left iraq after failing to gain power, the disatisfaction with taliban was all westerners...
Complain about this comment
#273
Publius,
But he is being disingenuous. The scenario he is describing is the guy who goes to Canada (or comes to America) and works most of their career there (here) then goes home and lives off his pension. That's a common approach, especially in the technology sector with many Indian technology workers coming over on an L-1 and then staying for as long as it takes to meet their personal financial goals.
However, there are two things that don't add up. These people don't take citizenship as soon as they can and then return 'home'. The citizenship question is entirely divorced from social security, if you pay in long enough (a lot longer than it takes to get citizenship)then you do get a state funded pension which can go along way overseas. It's just like the Brits moving to Spain, or somefolks I know who hang out in Honduras for the winter (and mighty smart that looks right now given the cold).
In the case of the states you also get the joy of reporting that and all other income to the IRS and paying tax on it.
You would also have to question why Doctors and Engineers would be working on a production line when both Canada and the US fast track folks with those skills because there is a shortage. If they really had those qualifications they would have to be real losers not to be able to get a professional job.
With regards to Gulf 1, I recall being warmly welcomed everywhere I went before and after the shooting. The Saudi's and their Allies were very appreciative of the us, the Brits and everyone else who showed up for the party. The Colonel is of course right that Kuwait was handed over to the Emir because he was one of the Allies in the coalition. Generally at the end of a war the losers don't get very much, losing does kind of suck. The Iraqi's lost, they got kicked out. The Taliban lost and hence they were not handed Afghanistan. Not a difficult concept really, though the colonel is struggling with it.
As for Ret'd, I think Borat established that that meant 'retard'.
One last point. Fat Andy Dalziel, a colleague and no stranger to being blown up, has observed that suicide bombers do indeed meet with 72 virgins post death. The only problem is that one small (in their case)part of their body is missing, making the whole thing pointless (literally).
Alternatively one could go with The Onion's report that the 9/11 bombers were shocked to find themselves in every religions version of Hell. Sucks for them.
Craven
Complain about this comment
Ref 276 colonelartist-
"You have lots of such people in your country, strike up a conversation with anyone of them and ask them how the things work..."
I was giving you a compliment in my post #273. Sorry you did not understand that it was a compliment. I should have been more clear. Also warning off others from arguing the point with you.
I have many Arab friends. I live in the City of Detroit with its fast growing Muslim population. My Islamic friends compliment me on how well I understand their religion. My Arab friends compliment me on how well I know their culture. I initiated an assimilation program with ARAMCO back in the late 1970's for young Arab students coming to the U.S. for schooling. Thus, my contacts in the Persian Gulf region during the Persian Gulf War, and my basis for understanding Arab culture.
Complain about this comment
My Ref 278
That should read "seize the initiative" instead of "cease the initiative". (Which they did cease the initiative)
Complain about this comment
Robert Fowles, 58, from Dover, Kent, was also charged with being drunk on an aircraft, the Metropolitan Police said.
Alexander McGinn, 48, who is also from Dover, was also charged with being drunk on an aircraft" [BBC World Service]
How did they manage to bring any liquids on board. Especially fortified?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who let them board the plane drunk, the ground crew of emirates has explaining to do..Having said that, i think its about time, that airlines also start showing segregation and my suggestion is better than the pornographic booths..Citizens should travel by their own airlines..and it should also be segregated on the bases of religon, muslims should use only muslim airlines, westerners their own, and those non muslim easterners can choose whichever airline they want to use. May the best airline wins economically and that would be the emirates, qatar, gulf, Etihad...
Complain about this comment
257. At 9:56pm on 09 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"Now, allow me, you get the canadian citizen, you come back, you open a bussiness...getting loans, you open a private hospital, contact a few known doctors to sit to work a few hours in that hospital...real money making...if you are more ambitious, contact some proffessors both within the country of origin and lets say canada, and open a private medical school or mulitnational private hospital...."
Well, I am surprised* at your endorsement of entrepreneurship, the principles of the 'American Dream' and capitalist exploitation of the resources and people of less developed countries for private enrichment and profit. All done from Canada, too.
However, where areall these private hospitals and private medical schools?
*Maybe, on second thoughts, I'm not. What was your reason for becoming a 'neo-settler' (whatever that is when it's at home) in Canada again? To eventually set up a private hospital in one of the Gulf States for some of the Sheikhs or Princes and their families by any chance?
Complain about this comment
137. At 8:29pm on 08 Jan 2010, Andy Post wrote:
"In the meantime, this fact I heard on the News Hour last night is really sticking in my craw: In the years since 9/11, roughly 5,000 Americans have died in Afghanistan and Iraq, while 27,000 young African American men have been gunned down on the streets of America. I've seen AG Holder speak once about it (and I'm an admitted news junkie)."
"I can't help but feel we're not allocating our resources in proportion to the seriousness of the threats we face."
__________
Agreed.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
280. At 11:20pm on 09 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"How did they manage to bring any liquids on board. Especially fortified?"
On which side of the scanners and searches do you think the duty-free shops are?
Complain about this comment
You would also have to question why Doctors and Engineers would be working on a production line when both Canada and the US fast track folks with those skills because there is a shortage. If they really had those qualifications they would have to be real losers not to be able to get a professional job.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
When canada allows a doctor to migrate to that country, the person has to write and sign that he will not practice as a doctor or medical proffession over there...Go check it up and then call those people real losers..Every migrant doctors says the same thing, that canada has shortabe of doctors yet it doesnt allow migrant doctors to practice medicene...
Complain about this comment
178. At 11:26am on 09 Jan 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
"Ref 171"
""You're fighting an ideology. The problem is that you fuel that ideology when you respond with force.""
"Like our British friends would say, spot on!"
_________
Yep. And if you mistakenly injure or kill innocent civilians while you're at it, you create ten new terrorists for every injury, and a hundred new terrorists for every wrongful death.
If you would have justice, you must do justice.
Complain about this comment
"20. At 08:43am on 08 Jan 2010, D R Murrell wrote:
"Powermeerkat – Its not just in the US, I prefer HBO to BHO afterall HBO has Trueblood and Hung!"
________
So how do you know that BHO doesn't have trueblood?
As for hung, whether or not including the adverb "well", surely that's Michelle's business, not ours?
Complain about this comment
However, where areall these private hospitals and private medical schools?
*Maybe, on second thoughts, I'm not. What was your reason for becoming a 'neo-settler' (whatever that is when it's at home) in Canada again? To eventually set up a private hospital in one of the Gulf States for some of the Sheikhs or Princes and their families by any chance?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Every country, from china to india to bangladesh to thailand to pakistan have such hospitals...want a kidney transplant, go to india, and even pakistan..brand new kidney at low cost, there and then on "dont ask dont tell" policy..I have not yet become neo settler, i am thinking about it..and thinking means, trying to make up some reasons..so far the only reason is to avoid pornographic booths, and since i am kind of marco poloish, it will save lot of money which i pay otherwise to countries to get visas, and i have heard frequent exposure to rays in the booth is dangerous...
Complain about this comment
Re #283 Fat Andy Dalziel, a colleague and no stranger to being blown up, has observed that suicide bombers do indeed meet with 72 virgins post death. The only problem is that one small (in their case)part of their body is missing, making the whole thing pointless (literally).
Alternatively one could go with The Onion's report that the 9/11 bombers were shocked to find themselves in every religions version of Hell. Sucks for them.
Craven
Well, if you attack Great Satan you shouldn't be surprised to end up in his kingdom.
As for missing one's small body part...
If you put your underpants on fire that should't surprise you either.
Sadly, being a suicide bomber without balls really sucks.
Complain about this comment
Ref 282 colonelartist-
"The kuwaitis, arabians,like the iraqis and afghans were satisfied with their leaders...the disatisfaction of arabians with saud royals started when he allowed usa to make him invite the military..."
In Ref 262 you tell me that the people of Saudi Arabia and the foreign minister were against their Monarch for inviting the U.S. to bring forces to Saudi Arabian soil. Now you are telling me that the King did not invite the U.S. forces; the U.S. made the King invite our forces.
Truth is that there was a collective sigh of relief in Saudi Arabia when the boots of the U.S. Army 82nd Airborne hit the tarmac at the airport at Az-Zahran (Dhahran). The people were doing everything they could to help get the Airborne troops up to the Tapline Road for the defense of Saudi Arabia.
"You remember extremely wrong....first of all the people of kingdom,including their forgein minister were extremely against gulf war 1, but he was quetly sidelined by the americans..."
The Americans were not sidelining anyone. We were too busy preparing for battle. The King and his government may have been sidelining the foreign minister and whatever group of people were against the use of U.S. troops on Saudi Arabian soil. That was the King's business; not ours.
Go spank the King. Either of being too weak to rule; or too indifferent to the will of his people to listen to them. That is not a problem created by the United States nor the Coalition Nations who answered the call from the King. That is a problem for the King and the people of Saudi Arabia to work out on their own.
Complain about this comment
282. At 11:23pm on 09 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"the disatisfaction of iraqis with saddam was limited to those failed iraqi power hungry people who left iraq after failing to gain power"
You mean they were allpeople like. . .ah, now why should I give you a name? Let's just say, 'like the guy who was wanted for fraud in another country'.
Do you know, I only know (well, knew) one Iraqi who would agree with you? On his return to Iraq he worked for the regime. Unfortunately, I cannot give you his name, because it would make me (and my Iraqi friends who did and do not) traceable; and neither they nor I want any association with any Iraqi Ba'athist Party members like that (even if they say they are 'retired') again. But I am sure you know all about that sort of thing and I need not have mentioned it. . .
Complain about this comment
Gnomic comment: the trouble with playing devil's advocate is that the devil (being devilish) doesn't always give the player the right lines . . .
Complain about this comment
275. At 10:58pm on 09 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Just out of curiosity, colonel... What does Ret'd stand for?
'cause it sure doesn't look like it stands for Ret. More like..."
__________
Now, now. Easy on, there.
Complain about this comment
The kuwaitis, arabians,like the iraqis and afghans were satisfied with their leaders...the disatisfaction of arabians with saud royals started when he allowed usa to make him invite the military...the disatisfaction of iraqis with saddam was limited to those failed iraqi power hungry people who left iraq after failing to gain power, the disatisfaction
__________________
Please tell that to the Kurds
Complain about this comment
240. At 6:35pm on 09 Jan 2010, publiusdetroit wrote:
Ref 236 squirrelist
" Imagine how cunning and devious a people must be who put cheese curds and (of all things) gravy on their french fries!"
I don't know about cunning and devious. But they must certainly be huge risk-takers to do something like that. Good job the burst balloon (good darts throwers, the Canadians, must be) was replaced with solid towers then. Who knows what kind of mass attack they might risk across the border one day if those Yanks say any more about Canadian cancer patients and their health service . . . .
Complain about this comment
In Ref 262 you tell me that the people of Saudi Arabia and the foreign minister were against their Monarch for inviting the U.S. to bring forces to Saudi Arabian soil. Now you are telling me that the King did not invite the U.S. forces; the U.S. made the King invite our forces.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
You will be surprised that even dostum was not eager to be the allies of americans, until they gave him the worst case scenario,he joined and he is allowed to act like he acted before taliban...if saudi arabian forgein minister, and his king had refused, usa would have done to them what it did to saddam...Atleast this way, when there is a power change in saudi arabia, the saud royals will be allowed to leave the country and carry on their private bussiness from outside the country,and not end up like saddam...they will end up like the redundent supporter of usa, general musharaf of pakistan..who lives in england and gives lectures in usa, making millions of dollars...like tony blair...
Complain about this comment
Ref 283 Ron Craven
"But he is being disingenuous. The scenario he is describing is the guy who goes to Canada (or comes to America) and works most of their career there (here) then goes home and lives off his pension."
This is why Canada becomes more attractive to engineers, welders, teachers, and the like. They become eligible for more benefits and entitlements much faster than in the States. Plus Universal health-care.
Doctors love the United States more because our health-care system is just a big, fat, oozing cash cow. Lots of money to easily squeeze from the system like milking a cow.
All the anti-health-care reform advocates should pay close attention to what the colonel was saying, and a thing or two Ron Craven has noted. Now can you understand why health-care costs are rising? Can you see where some health-care reform is needed?
Complain about this comment
294. At 11:59pm on 09 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"since i am kind of marco poloish"
Yes, I grasped that quite a while ago. Lot of truth in what Marco Polo writes.
Complain about this comment
Please tell that to the Kurds
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What I told the kurds was this, "learn from americans, when two buildings were destroyed in one of their city, they called it an attack on their country and anyone who said anything against their country at that point was psychologically lynched that no one dare to whispter anything and here you were, showing treason by attacking your own army when it was fighting a war against iran. do what americans do, and not what they incite you to do"...
Complain about this comment
241. At 6:50pm on 09 Jan 2010, publiusdetroit wrote:
"Neither Canada, nor the U.S. stops and checks every vehicle leaving their respective countries. Only those entering their countries."
__________
I think the deal is that we trust each other to make the checks on the incoming vehicles only. Just like Publius, I have been across this border many, many times, at many different border crossings, and I do not ever recall seeing anybody stopped for questioning, let alone a search, on the way out.
As for whether we do a thorough job, that's much harder to say. If they are as zealous about terrorists as they are about women doing cross-border shopping in New York, they are probably doing a pretty good job.
Canada Customs and Immigration (now Canada Border Services) usually ask you where you live, or where you were born. Provided it's truthful (and nowadays they're looking at your passport or driver's license as you answer), they don't really care about what you say, but they listen pretty closely to how you say it. Even in the days before you had to show ID at the border, all they really cared about was your pronunciation.
I have never been stopped or searched at the border for any reason, except the one time when the car was really brand spanking new and the US border agent wanted to spend 90 seconds doing some window shopping on a kind of car he'd apparently never seen before.
Complain about this comment
All the anti-health-care reform advocates should pay close attention to what the colonel was saying, and a thing or two Ron Craven has noted. Now can you understand why health-care costs are rising? Can you see where some health-care reform is needed?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Very good, when it suits you, you listen to me, and not only that you advocate that anti health care reformers should pay close attention to what i have written...it would be nice if you said that to your president and everyone else to pay close attention to what i say if they want to end this war on terror mess...I have one condition when it comes to listenting to me, either you listen to everything i say, or dont listen to me. I dont like this pick and choose listening habit of others, and that which i dont like in others, i dont like it for myself...Your health reforms is your internal matter, and an internal debate...
Complain about this comment
"Neither Canada, nor the U.S. stops and checks every vehicle leaving their respective countries. Only those entering their countries."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
No country is responsible for any other country..thats why, if usa wants other countries to protect it, then it has to pay for its protection at the transit airports..
Complain about this comment
"And if you mistakenly injure or kill innocent civilians while you're at it, you create ten new terrorists for every injury, and a hundred new terrorists for every wrongful death."
And if foreigners interested in casing U.S. intentionally kill thousands of innocent civilians on U.S. soil whom are they going to create, you think? :-)
Complain about this comment
Ref 306 InterestedForeigner-
"Just like Publius, I have been across this border many, many times, at many different border crossings..."
You have been across the border enough if you recognize that the officials on either side of the border seldom look at you when you answer where your live. They do listen very closely to the voice of the person responding. They are listening for a tell-tale sign of stress.
A friend and I cross the border together so often we have fun with the Customs people. We know all the questions they ask, and often remind them when they miss one. We like to provide lots of details as well.
Just hope you never have to go for the strip-search. The room is too cold for nudity; and the rubber gloves are even colder.
Of course, a friend told me this. I've never been that much of a smart-aleck to get myself sent to the strip-search room.
Complain about this comment
Doctors love the United States more because our health-care system is just a big, fat, oozing cash cow. Lots of money to easily squeeze from the system like milking a cow.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doctors should be allowed to milk the cows, and squeeze as much money as they like...they do what no one in this whole world does, save lives, treat the sick...without them, the americans and the world would have died long time ago..no matter how safe the world become from terrorism, it would be all empty without the doctors..
Complain about this comment
Yes, I grasped that quite a while ago. Lot of truth in what Marco Polo writes.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The question that i ask myself when i try to convince to be a neosettler in canada is what will i say to the red indians in canada, the settlers i can handle effortlessly...
Complain about this comment
"if those Yanks say any more about Canadian cancer patients and their health service."
Fortunately Yanks constitute only a part of the U.S. population.
Confs are still around and remember.
Particularly in November.
Complain about this comment
244. At 7:53pm on 09 Jan 2010, GH1618 wrote:
"Hispanics seem to get more attention because there are a great many more of them in the US illegally than other groups. I have heard that as much as 10% of the population of Mexico was in the US a few years ago. Some of these people are serious criminals, associated with Mexican and Central American drug cartels, who control the illegal drug business in the western US."
"I live in one of the most diverse ares of the United States, and I must say that I do not see "visceral hatred" directed against Hispanics out of proportion to their representation in the population. In fact, I see very little "visceral hatred" at all."
__________
On the "visceral hatred": by and large, in my experience, Americans just don't do "visceral hatred" that much. Sure, there are always a few nut cases. But compare it to, say, Greeks and Turks; Hungarians and Romanians; Serbs and Croats; Serbs and Albanians; Hungarians and Serbs; Poles and Germans (less now, but in the older generation, still). Lots of East Europeans hate each other for centuries-old reasons - and don't even get them started on Gypsies, let alone Jews. Oh, gosh, but some hatreds and prejudices take a long, long time to die.
No, by comparison, Americans are amateurs at "visceral hatred". America is just too big-hearted and generous a place to have much time for that.
----------
As for illegal immigrants, yes, there are always some really bad apples. But overwhelmingly those who come to our shores come here for the same reasons our own ancestors did. They come here to work hard and make a better life for their children. More than most of us, they really do come here to live the "American Dream". And they and their children become the most ferociously proud and patriotic of us all.
It is sometimes really humbling - like when a Chinese immigrant bought John Macrae's medals at auction for C$ 440,000., and then donated them to the National War Museum. When he was asked why he did it, he said he wanted to make sure they would never leave Canada. Stuff like that really chokes me up.
In any case, Chinese gangsters, Russian Mafia, Romanian human traffickers and all the rest notwithstanding, we all benefit hugely from immigration. I want the human smugglers put in jail, but I don't want the illegal aliens sent back. If they are working hard, obeying the law, and raising their families, they're more than welcome to stay, in my books at least.
Complain about this comment
"The question that i ask myself when i try to convince to be a neosettler in canada is what will i say to the red indians in canada"
Better red than dead?
Complain about this comment
Ref 281, squirrelist
"But then, they are not really human are they? They are no longer "immigrants"; not even "illegal immigrants". They are "aliens", now, aren't they? (At least we here have not--yet--adopted that deliberately dehumanising term.)"
One of the most revealing facets of this issue is that the overt antagonism against Native Americans from Mexico and Central America is not evident against white Hispanics.
With the exception of occasional jokes or comments that I attribute to supine ignorance I have never felt discriminated against because of my ethnicity, in fact, most of my friends are "anglos"; and I know several white Cubans, Puerto Ricans, and Argentinians that have been accepted and are productive members of our society.
In fairness, most Americans are very tolerant and generous, but somehow the same vociferous minority that gets their way on just about everything important to our society, from foreign policy to healthcare reform, has also prevented every attempt to solve our immigration problems in a manner that is fair for all.
Not everything is bleak, however. Here is a success story. When I lived and worked in Maryland I used to frequent a "Mexican" restaurant in Rockville (the owners and Chef were actually from El Salvador.) After a year or two they opened two more restaurants in a city called Frederick, sometime later they opened one in Ocean City and one in Virginia. To my surprise, and delight, they opened one in Daytona Beach not long ago. When I talked to one of the owners recently she told me they were doing very well, except for the restaurant in Virginia.
My hobby, since I retired, is genealogy and to facilitate my investigations overseas I have become a member of several genealogy groups, including one from the Canary Islands, where my Dad was born. An interesting experience involves assisting a couple of Cuban doctors with their efforts to apply for Spanish citizenship, Spain grants citizenship to descendents of Spaniards born - and living - overseas if they can prove their parents or grandparents were born in Spain. Both of these gentlemen migrated to Spain after becoming citizens, and the last time I heard one was considering moving to the USA.
I find the difference in the way countries deal with the issue of immigration fascinating and revealing. Clearly, there are negatives associated with having an open door policy, but more often than not immigrants contribute to the betterment of society and help improve the standard of living in their adopted countries.
Contrary to what some claim the overwhelming majority of Hispanic immigrants are not criminals, would love to earn the same wages and enjoy the same benefits as everyone else, are more than ready to pay taxes as that would mean eligibility to benefits they currently do not have, and they have no intention to transform our country into a Third World society. If given a chance, they would become an asset to our society the same way so many immigrants have in the past.
Complain about this comment
Ref 307 colonelartist-
"I have one condition when it comes to listenting to me, either you listen to everything i say, or dont listen to me."
Frankly; I do read most everything you write on this blog and give it careful consideration. It may surprise you that I do not disagree with you all that often. Unfortunately posting on a blog is not conducive to patient prose as spoken by civilized people when in conversation, so forgive me that I post in a more terse style when on this blog.
Having a greater understanding, then many of my countrymen posting here, about the region and culture of the regions in which our military forces are currently engaged, I have never supported any of the wars we have fought in those regions. Even the quasi-war my Nation engaged in during the Soviet occupation. I was certain that our military actions would lead us precisely to where we are. Standing in a barrel trying to shoot the fish in the barrel and all too often shooting ourselves in the foot; then wondering why it hurts and the water is getting a murky red. Too addled to understand why there is so much blood and so few fish floating in answer to all the shots that have been fired.
Complain about this comment
According to reliable MEXICAN sources illegal immigrants, incorrectly called wetbacks in some quarters (in reality more and more of them get to U.S. through tunnels), send back to Mexico around 20 billion dollars a year (that's Billion with a "B").
This money, according to those sources isn't even spent on American goods (computers, microwave ovens, dishwashers, plasma and LCD screens, DVD players, etc.) which could benefit U.S. economy and create more jobs.
It's sent back in CASH.
Isn't it a great country or what?
Complain about this comment
Better red than dead?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Better dead than the living dead, unfortunately i dont see dead people..
Complain about this comment
Spain grants citizenship to descendents of Spaniards born - and living - overseas if they can prove their parents or grandparents were born in Spain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This granting of citizenship on the bases of grandparents should be wiped out from the earth..it gives a free ride to some people, the grandparents leaves the countries on their free will...If we dont stop this grand mother or grand parents advantage, tomorrow the westerners will extend it all the way back to monkeys and claim that they have a right on africa..
Complain about this comment
271. At 10:47pm on 09 Jan 2010, publiusdetroit wrote:
Ref 262 colonelartist-
"You remember extremely wrong..."
“People in Saudi Arabia were adding compost to the sand all over Saudi Arabia in fear that Saddam would cross their border. Even though it was well evident that he was digging into a defensive position and not making movements toward the Kingdom. The man may be considered a fool. He was not an idiot.”
I hate to agree with the colonial, but I think your memory wrong, too, as I remember TV coverage of Iraqi armour surging south of the internationally recognized [but not by Saddam] border of Kuwait.
It is possible that those skirmishes were phoney, but I found them quite believable. I watched both Saudi and US units retaking Saudi and then Kuwaiti territory.
Complain about this comment
And if foreigners interested in casing U.S. intentionally kill thousands of innocent civilians on U.S. soil whom are they going to create, you think? :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Soviet union look alike..They will create soviet union of united states..Or crussadic unitedd states of america..
Complain about this comment
Who knew a discussion of Canadian Immigration law was about to break out? What a refreshing change from the usual rat-hole.
283. At 11:28pm on 09 Jan 2010, Ron Craven wrote:
"But he is being disingenuous. The scenario he is describing is the guy who goes to Canada (or comes to America) and works most of their career there (here) then goes home and lives off his pension. That's a common approach, especially in the technology sector with many Indian technology workers ..."
"However, there are two things that don't add up. These people don't take citizenship as soon as they can and then return 'home'..."
"You would also have to question why Doctors and Engineers would be working on a production line when both Canada and the US fast track folks with those skills because there is a shortage. If they really had those qualifications they would have to be real losers not to be able to get a professional job."
_________
There is a lot of truth in what Publius wrote, and in what Ron/Sam wrote.
Starting with professional qualifications, the idea that you need Canadian Engineering accreditation to practice engineering in Canada is nonsense.
You only need it if you wish to practice as a consulting engineer, in which case you need to pass exams, have a minimum period of professional experience, and have other professionals prepared to vouch for your competence, experience, and character - but these are exactly the same requirements that apply to graduates of Canadian Engineering schools, and they make sense: If you are going to put your Engineer's Stamp on drawings for a design upon which the safety of the public may depend, it is only right that you should have to pass the exams and have the relevant experience.
From personal experience I have known engineers who practice engineering in Canada who come from: Kiev; Belfast (umpteen of them, all veterans of either the RN, Harland & Wolff, or Shorts); Budapest (at least half a dozen); Amsterdam; Toronto (many); Etobicoke; Brantford; Stony Creek; Halifax; Calgary; Montreal (many); Glasgow; Leicester; Sheffield; Manchester; London; Derby; Longeuil; Sept Iles; Toulouse; Montpelier; Warsaw-via-Tel-Aviv; Ottawa; Birmingham-but-born-in-India; Hyderabad; Rostock; Nottingham; Tehran; Alexandria; Cairo; Baghdad; Capetown; Barbados; Dar es Salaam; Hong Kong; Shanghai; Istanbul; Timmins; Deep River.
All of them have made successful, and in some cases astonishingly successful, careers in engineering in Canada.
In most engineering work places home-grown engineers will be significantly out-numbered by immigrants. In electronics it is stark: Chinese and Indians dominate.
Interestingly, it is that way at Engineering Schools, too. The kids who work hard in high school, and gain admission to the best Universities are overwhelmingly East Asian, South Asian, Russian, Iranian. Not very many whitebread kids of baby boomers, comparatively speaking.
I do know of a Russian-trained engineer who delivers mail at a law firm, and there are stories in the papers about engineers driving cabs, so it does happen. But you have to wonder how good their qualifications are. Even the language is not that much of a barrier. I know several very successful engineers who do not speak English well, and yet that has not prevented their ability from shining through.
Complain about this comment
316. At 01:30am on 10 Jan 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
"One of the most revealing facets of this issue is that the overt antagonism against Native Americans from Mexico and Central America is not evident against white Hispanics."
_________
There is a play on precisely this topic, that we studied in school many years ago:
"El color de nuestra piel".
I have forgotten the name of the playwright. You might find it interesting. I'm not sure if it is still in print.
Complain about this comment
307. At 00:58am on 10 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"I have one condition when it comes to listenting to me, either you listen to everything i say, or dont listen to me. I dont like this pick and choose listening habit of others, and that which i dont like in others, i dont like it for myself..."
Really? I query you on Iraqi's views on Saddam Hussein, ask where all these amazing private hospitals and medical schools are that are created by ex immigrants are.
And the response? Oh, they're everywhere.
"I don't like this pick and choose. . ." So why do it? Why evade one issue after another? Why ignore anything that doesn't suit your agenda (whatever it is) or your opinion of the moment (whatever that is)?
Anyone who wants others to meet their conditions needs to actually practice what they preach, observe those conditions themselves. Don't they?
Since you are sharing what you don't like in people posting here, so will I.
I don't like people who claim knowledge but never substantiate it. People who endlessly repeat, slightly adapted and usually truncated, what others have said and pretend it is their own. Claim insights which are others'. Ask for proofs, but do not offer any themselves. Contradict honest and sincere people by pretending they have a view or an opinion which only exists in the responders' imagination. Write to shock for mere effect. Reply to posts in terms that are supposed to be 'controversial', not to stimulate discussion, but only in the hope of provoking a more outrageous comment or opinion in response than there has been already.
Marco Polo was as much a teller of 'travellers' tales' than a traveller, wasn't he?
Complain about this comment
RE #316 SaintDominick
Have you been to Canaries lately?
I have. Scary. Local authorities are overwhelmed and Mr. Bean does not allocate nearly enough money (cash and hardware: speedboats, etc.) for them to deal with a flood of African "boat people".
[btw, remember original "boat people'"?].
Complain about this comment
Ref 321 JMM-
"I hate to agree with the colonial, but I think your memory wrong, too, as I remember TV coverage of Iraqi armour surging south of the internationally recognized [but not by Saddam] border of Kuwait."
I never claimed that Saddam did not invade Kuwait. The reason why the U.S. government sent troops at the request of the King of Saudi Arabia was because of the invasion and occupation of Kuwait. However; the Iraqi army did not violate the border with Saudi Arabia until 29 January 1991 when the Iraqi army attacked Al-Khafji not far across the border of occupied Kuwait just prior to the Coalition ground offensive. There may have been reconnaissance missions across the Saudi Arabian border, but not an action in force until the Al-Khafji attack.
If you know of any ground battles Iraq conducted across the Saudi Arabian border prior to the 29 January attack on Al-Khafji, please let me know where those attacks took place. I will be happy to read about them.
Complain about this comment
More on the professional qualifications thing.
In other professions, such as law and medicine, you can't practice without accreditation. In medicine it is really sensitive, because entitlement to practice means entitlement to a government billing number. So the College of Physicians and Surgeons, and the Ministry of Health, are going to be really tight about who gets in and who doesn't.
In law, anybody who passes the bar exams gets in, no matter where they come from. But that isn't where the rubber hits the road. The mean income of a lawyer in Ontario in 15 years ago was about C$ 25,000/year. I do not know what the more recent figure is. The point is that it is the actual experience of working in the profession that determines who is able to make a living at it, or not. It is sometimes a very, hard, cold bucket of water for the children of good families who are not prepared for it.
Here, superior ability in written English is critical, as are above average inter-personal skills. Usually those "inter-personal skills" assume a deep knowledge of the culture.
Complain about this comment
Really? I query you on Iraqi's views on Saddam Hussein, ask where all these amazing private hospitals and medical schools are that are created by ex immigrants are.
And the response? Oh, they're everywhere.
"I don't like this pick and choose. . ." So why do it? Why evade one issue after another? Why ignore anything that doesn't suit your agenda (whatever it is) or your opinion of the moment (whatever that is)?
Anyone who wants others to meet their conditions needs to actually practice what they preach, observe those conditions themselves. Don't they?
Since you are sharing what you don't like in people posting here, so will I.
I don't like people who claim knowledge but never substantiate it. People who endlessly repeat, slightly adapted and usually truncated, what others have said and pretend it is their own. Claim insights which are others'. Ask for proofs, but do not offer any themselves. Contradict honest and sincere people by pretending they have a view or an opinion which only exists in the responders' imagination. Write to shock for mere effect. Reply to posts in terms that are supposed to be 'controversial', not to stimulate discussion, but only in the hope of provoking a more outrageous comment or opinion in response than there has been already.
Marco Polo was as much a teller of 'travellers' tales' than a traveller, wasn't he?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont even inquire what your view is about gordon brown or obama, whoever is your leader courtesy electionism, so why would i enquire iraqis about their views on saddam..some like brown, others dont, some like obama others dont, same case with saddam..thankyou for sharing your dislike, but remember, you stole the idea from me...not your original idea...And marco polo could tell the tales of his travels because he traveled and liked to share his traveling tales...not everyone likes to tell tales of travels...some just travel without telling tales to others, intrinsically motivated...
Complain about this comment
I never claimed that Saddam did not invade Kuwait. The reason why the U.S. government sent troops at the request of the King of Saudi Arabia was because of the invasion and occupation of Kuwait. However; the Iraqi army did not violate the border with Saudi Arabia until 29 January 1991 when the Iraqi army attacked Al-Khafji not far across the border of occupied Kuwait just prior to the Coalition ground offensive. There may have been reconnaissance missions across the Saudi Arabian border, but not an action in force until the Al-Khafji attack.
If you know of any ground battles Iraq conducted across the Saudi Arabian border prior to the 29 January attack on Al-Khafji, please let me know where those attacks took place. I will be happy to read about them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
its what I will call, race against the present...sometimes to understand the past, all you need is to focus on the present.....Did you see the video of jordaian doctor hired by cia sitting next to pakistani head of taliaban association? connect the dots...starting from where usa said pakistani army is not fighting enough to kill taliban who enter afghanistan, and pakistani army's answer that pakistani army will only fight pakistani taliban and not those fighting the aamericans, and the kandahari taliban's announcement where they have repeatdly said that they have nothing to do with pakistani taliban...I refuse to believe that no one in the cia or anyother I-A didnt know that the jordanian guy had links with pakistani taliban...the american I-A has brilliantly put pakistan on the front line again...
Complain about this comment
Ref 328 Interestedforeigner-
"The mean income of a lawyer in Ontario in 15 years ago was about C$ 25,000/year."
Obviously not a very litigious society in Canada. I know divorce lawyers in the U.S. that can rake in that much from a single divorce.
Complain about this comment
Now onto the "Passports of convenience" issue.
It is ridiculously easy to obtain Canadian citizenship, and therefore a Canadian passport.
Many, many foreigners obtain Canadian passports as an insurance policy. Unlike the UK, which refused to give a guarantee of citizenship to H.M.'s Hong Kong subjects, Canada (and I think also Australia) was prepared to take almost anybody from HK who applied. At a guess, there are probably something like half a million "Canadians" from Hong Kong. When you consider that the place had a population of 8 million, that is quite a statistic. Many have come to live here, many have simply bought property here, and actually live and work in HK. But if anything goes wrong, they have a safe place in Canada. There are lots of Russians who have done the same thing, and Vietnamese, and Indians, and, and, and, ...
This seems an abuse of our immigration system, but, so far, nobody seems bothered enough to complain much, or to do anything about it.
We also have no shortage of less desirable citizens of convenience. Among those found to have taken refuge in Canada are Serbian war criminals; instigators of the Rwandan genocide; Haitian thugs; senior leaders of the Tamil Tigers and their families, and, of course, the families of various terrorists, including AQ.
In that regard, almost the only thing the Harper government has done right, in my view, is to refuse to repatriate a member of a particularly odious family whose citizenship was, apparently, obtained without a particularly forthcoming disclosure of details of the father's participation in AQ.
The son apparently either killed, or was on the scene participating in the activity of killing, an American medic, by a grenade, while the medic was tending to the wounded.
The mother, a real piece of work, has not so far been able to express any remorse, and in particular not to the medic's family. She has used (manipulated?) the press in a manner that I would characterize as taunting the public. One incident appeared to involve rejoicing in the deaths of Canadian soldiers overseas. A lot of Canadians have trouble with that.
I'm of two minds about this, because every Canadian is entitled to protection under the Charter. But on the other hand, if they lied to obtain citizenship, and they are making a mockery of our citizenship laws, it sticks sideways to see them then demand all the protections provided under the Charter.
To my mind, we ought to correct the mistake, and revoke their citizenship. But we just don't do that kind of thing.
At the end of the day, we value the idea of being an open and welcoming society. Having said that, though, we probably need to spend some time thinking about how to prevent our laws from being abused by people with less-than-pure motives.
Complain about this comment
and its not as if all the canadian lawyers,doctors or engineers both early settlers those who stole the native land and natives are good at interpersonal skills..
Complain about this comment
Between lying to get citizen, and killing the natives to steal their lands, the first one is the lesser of the two evils...
Complain about this comment
Ref 330 colonelartist-
"I refuse to believe that no one in the cia or anyother I-A didnt know that the jordanian guy had links with pakistani taliban...the american I-A has brilliantly put pakistan on the front line again."
Reports indicate that the Jordanian was not only a double agent, but it was also likely that he was a triple agent. How does a man serve three masters? What kind of man would wish to do so? He must choose one master to serve above the other(s). What amount of trust would a prudent man give such a man who serves more than one master?
Obviously; the CIA is not prudent. General Flynn pointed out the glaring failures in our intelligence network, as well as what is working. Flynn is at least more prudent. His plan does not include placing trust in a man with many masters. Will the Flynn plan be instituted? Not likely. The CIA is jealous of its power. It has been demonstrated that they are not prudent time and time again.
If the Flynn plan is instituted, it will ultimately demonstrate the best thing the U.S. can do is to leave Afghanistan. This is why it will not be embraced. Too many self-interests want this war to continue. More men serving more than one master. But our government places their trust in these unfaithful men. Because they are imprudent and do not see these men serve other masters before they serve the government.
Complain about this comment
'Who let the retard out?
Borat
The problem with posting every 30 seconds and just trying to argue with everyoneis that the inconsistencies start to come through. One minute there is no unhappiness with Saddam and the Taliban, the next there is (Magic, agreed on the Kurds, you missed the Marsh Arabs, who had a harder time than even the Kurds. Shiites in general hated Saddam.
Then we have the Canadian immigrants, who come just long enough to get citizenship, then leave. Then stay and buy overseasproperty as an insurance policy (quick newsflash. Most American and many Canadian professionals have obverseas property regardless of their race creed color or religion. It's fun).
The question of Doctorsnot being able to practice in canada, which is ofcourse nonsense and asothers have pointed out requires a license (for obvious reasons). A good summary can be found here:
http://www.immigration.ca/permres-professional-licensing-doctors.asp
Lastly we have this obsession with pornographic booths. I simply do not understand why the availability of pornographic booths should stop someone moving to Canada. I've not ever felt the need to look for one but I am sure they can be found near Army bases and the like (but not at the airport. that would be sick), and I have heard there are web sites that tell you where to find such things.
The idea of flying on your 'own' airline was interesting.I wonder if there is an airline that caters to the educationally sub normal verbose inconsistent illiterate person? How would you screen for that?
Craven
Complain about this comment
329. At 02:29am on 10 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"why would i enquire iraqis about their views on saddam"
Because one assumes that is how you come to "know": "the disatisfaction of iraqis with saddam was limited to those failed iraqi power hungry people who left iraq after failing to gain power".
But you wrote that without actually knowing what any Iraqis actually thought? Or think?
Then I can only assume anything you so confidently you assert that you 'know' has no basis but what you have read others have said, or it is all in your imagination.
In that case, I can see no point in anyone reading your posts. There's certainly nothing to be gained by even querying the contradictions that have accumulated. (You claim the Kurds in Iraq were American puppets; then call them traitors to an Iraqi regime that murdered them. That simply does not make sense.) Nor can I see any reason for responding to them, since you are obviously not interested in the slightest in what anyone but yourself wants people to read.
However imaginary.
Complain about this comment
Ref 336 Ron Craven-
"The idea of flying on your 'own' airline was interesting.I wonder if there is an airline that caters to the educationally sub normal verbose inconsistent illiterate person? How would you screen for that?"
Easy. Just put up a corridor at the airport with a Larry the Cable Guy booth, a Jeff Gordon NASCAR Shrine, a God Bless America Video booth, Black Velvet Art Gallery, etc. Anyone entering the more than 3 booths would be directed to join the ESNVIIP pilots in the Happy Hour Bar and fly the ESNVIIP airlines once the pilots and passengers got a good buzz on.
Complain about this comment
Our colonel is certainly an intriguing character. When is say our, I mean he is local to the USA/Canada based upon his posting times. I am still struggling with the canadian immigration thing. And a lot more.
He says that qualified people get into canade yet are unable to make use of these qualification once there. If they do not get in based upon their qualification, how do they get there? Something somewhere is not right.
He says he posts here to learn about his possible new home, but only lectures.
He talks about saudis, iraqis and kuwaitis likes and dislikes without any evidence.
He trashes the west in every post, yet wants to live here.
He trashes new settlers, yet wants to be one.
Wind-up Artist, more like.
Complain about this comment
336. Ron Craven wrote:
"The problem with posting every 30 seconds and just trying to argue with everyoneis that the inconsistencies start to come through."
If people can't spot them by now. . .
I thought the bit about the Kurds was particularly telling, actually. . .Not a lot of people would come up with the 'Kurdish treason in the Iraq-Iran war' notion in my experience. Doesn't fit at all well with what we are supposed to think.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ref 339 Seanspa-
"He says that qualified people get into canade yet are unable to make use of these qualification once there."
Being "qualified" in one country does not mean that one is "qualified" in another.
Albanian neighbor saw me working on my car, asked if he could do the work and get paid. He claimed to be a "qualified" mechanic back in Albania. I went to several other Albanians I knew for a long time to ask them if they knew him, and if he was a qualified mechanic. Everyone swore he was the best.
I didn't really want to do the job of replacing a head gasket, so I hired him to do the job. The man demonstrated that he was a good mechanic as I kept an eye on what he was doing. He did not know what a torque wrench was. Never had used one. I made certain that I tightened all bolts that needed very critical torque loads, while teaching him why this was necessary.
He was a fairly good mechanic; but would never pass the certification tests required to work in an auto-repair shop in the States.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Pub, I'm talking about qualifying to get into a country. Canada has a points system. Qualified people get points. What is the point of allowing these people in the country if you then deny their abilities. If this really is the case then canada is not the sensible country previously portrayed,
Complain about this comment
339. seanspa:
Don't think it's you that's struggling. I think our wind-up colonel has got his underwear in a bit of a twist.
There is a real problem with these 'pornographic booths' as he calls them, and it's not the one that Sam's thinking of. Btw, that all comes from the talk --easily and quickly accessible on Google--around their trial introduction in Manchester.
I'm still waiting--and I think I'll wait a long long time before I see it from our friend instead of the catchphrase--to read the major, fundamental, objection a devout Muslim would have to going through one of the things. I know what it is, and I'm rather surprised no-one's mentioned it, but I'm not telling.
(After all, I'm not the blog expert on matters Islam. . .)
I suppose it might have cropped up in the debate last October in Britain, but if it did I'm obviously not the only one who missed it ;-)
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ref 345 squirrelist-
"There is a real problem with these 'pornographic booths' as he calls them"
Now I understand what the colonel is referring to when he speaks of the 'pornographic booths'. I have been thinking that someone on another thread had come up with using pornography to identify Muslims by having everyone pass through a booth with pornographic images. If one expressed outrage over seeing the images of naked people, they must be Muslims.
I wouldn't want the job at the Manchester Airport unless I got to select the people passing through the x-ray machine. My selections would be a chauvinist action not based upon race, color, creed, nor national origin. :-D
Complain about this comment
344. At 04:15am on 10 Jan 2010, seanspa wrote:
Pub, I'm talking about qualifying to get into a country. Canada has a points system. Qualified people get points. What is the point of allowing these people in the country if you then deny their abilities.
Depends, I expect, if the 'receiving' country recognises their vocational or academic qualifications and the awarding institution. I think it's changed now, but even within the EU I was once (am, I suppose!) qualified to pursue one profession in Britain and Italy (though my Italian is awful) but not in France (my French is much better!). Not sure about the US or Canada. I'd probably have had the qualifications to work in Canada.
Conversely, a French friend of mine was technically qualified to teach in the US and in France, but though it wasn't required, had to take a postgraduate diploma to add to her English universitypostgraduate degree to progress.
But then the Colonel was only writing about those tales you read (or hear) of immigrants who have to take other jobs, like driving taxis or whatever, because their qualifications aren't recognised, or need augmenting, in their new country. If I'd wanted to live in France and do what I'd been doing in England at the time, I daresay I'd have had to drive a taxi in Paris while I was working on whatever qualification I needed.
(Thank god I wouldn't have had to do that in Italy . . .can you imagine driving a taxi in Rome? Come to think of it I'd probably only ever have got round the Arc de Triomphe with my eyes shut . . .)
Complain about this comment
Umm. Sam appears to be demonstrating that the third time isn't always lucky. . .
Complain about this comment
347. publiusdetroit:
Funnily enough in a way you're not far off the mark. Can't remember where I read it, but very recently an Israeli company was floating the idea of projecting images and taking aside people who reacted to them. The images were to be faces, phrases, arabic words, symbols, all stuff associated with 'terrorism'. If anyone's eye movements or facial expression demonstrated interest or approval, it's off to jail you go with no get out of jail card.
You can see the obvious flaws, can't you? I had some doubts as to whether I'd get through that little test. I don't really feel convinced that you could really distinguish mere recognition from knowledge, or approval from active support.
S'pose if they tried it in the US, if you grinned nice and broadly at a pic of Dubbya or a bald eagle it'd be "Good afternoon, sir, don't bother about this scanner nonsense, which seat would you like. . .' Hmm. Squirrel fails again. Can't stand the look of bald eagles. They remind me of vultures.)
Complain about this comment
347. publiusdetroit:
There was a passing mention on this blog of the risk of nude images turning up on porn sites a day or two ago; it's cropped up in the UK because CCTV footage has been spread about now and then by unscrupulous (mostly private) operators when it shouldn't have been.
It was one of those subtopics that just got drowned in the general cry of "we gotta do something, security supersedes silly liberal PC whinges" outbursts. I did something about it briefly, but then just gave up since nobody seemed to care.
Complain about this comment
348
I really ought to proofread.
My French friend needed to add a postgrad diploma to her English university degree to progress in her teaching career in England.
Sorry; it wasn't that clear.
Complain about this comment
350 squirrelist
I believe I read about the same thing. Must have been on the BBC. I don't have much respect for Israeli programmers. Worked on a couple projects with them.
351 squirrelist
We get that occasionally when some footage from store security cameras in changing rooms or the like gets leaked.
Time for me to hit the sack.
Complain about this comment
#174 squirrelist,
164. rodidog:
You call me 'flippant', accuse me (and I presume Mark) of 'mischaracterisation'. Even, as I understand it, 'treason'.
Is that what I wrote? I don't think so. Let's read it again:
"I find flippant mischaracterizations of criticisms in general, without any references, and assigning criticism to acts of treason, to be a sign of hysterical behavior. I was surprised at Marks cheap shot and chilling accusations."
I was accusing Mark of being flippant in his mischarcterizations of criticisms against this administrations handling of the crotch bomber. Not you.
As for the treason part. You are completely mixed up. Mark wrote: "There is at least an argument that the most potent allies of the militants, the unwitting foot solders of AL-Qaeda's cause, are all those columnists and bloggers who want to raise the status of the enemy from mere common criminal to warrior, and who worry that the US is not being sufficiently hysterical." As far as I'm concerned, Mark is calling this administrations critics traitors in all but name.
Complain about this comment
Mark: "They attack him for not using the term 'war on terror'. This is not surprising - it is an article of liberal faith that you cannot wage war on abstract nouns."
I wouldn't say it is an article of liberal faith at all; they practically invented the phrase: "War on Poverty." The kinds of liberals that you have described just dislike acknowledging the fact that we are at war with people who are internationally organized mass-murderers with macabre visions of religious genocide and virgins in their heads. These liberals conveniently forget or do not acknowledge that we did not declare this war (this war was declared on us), leaving them with immense guilt that they project onto the whole nation. These liberals do not speak of the war on terror for many reasons, including a genuine distaste for anything linked to Bush Jr., but chief among them is to inflate their high-minded egos, to appear superior and more cultured than the rest of us, as if everyone else were warmongering brutes. Then again, maybe those liberals are superior to us brutes because they have figured out how to win a noble peace prize whilst simultaneously waging an "abstract" war that claims real lives on both sides.
Complain about this comment
U.K. terrorized by snow&cold
[photo courtesy of NASA]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/8447023.stm
Complain about this comment
#174 squirrelist wrote:
164. rodidog:
Continued...
But it is you who 'mischarcterise' my points.
just let me take one: this concentration on 'airport security'. You ask for 'references', though I don't know what you mean by that.
But let me try: If a determined bomber were to suddenly come to the conclusion that he might not achieve his original aim (i.e. getting on a plane to blow it up) by suspecting he was being approached by 'security', it seems to me obvious that he might well attempt to blow himself up in a crowded departure area as an alternative.
One of the London 'Tube bombers' found himself unable to get into the underground station he had intended; got on a bus, and -- it is thought--drawing some attention, because of his behaviour, according to survivors, blew himself, the bus and its passengers up instead before anyone had time to realise what he was really up to.
That is, he chose an alternative available target. The more charitable explanation -- which you would no doubt characterise as me being 'flippant'-- is that he had had second thoughts, was actually attempting to defuse the bomb he was carrying, and exploded it by accident. We obviously will never know.
-------------------------------------------
Where did I ask you for references and how did I mischaracterize anything you said? It would be helpful if you posted my actual comment in question.
I did ask if you were familiar with the explosive devise used by the 'crotch bomber' and how he would have detonated that device when approached by security. It's clear from your response that you're not familiar with the bomb he used or how it would be detonated.
Complain about this comment
At 11:20pm on 09 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"How did they manage to bring any liquids on board. Especially fortified?"
On which side of the scanners and searches do you think the duty-free shops are?
That's why I had suggested the brought it on board in their bladders.
[which may explain those suspicious long states in ..
Loo and behold!
Complain about this comment
354. At 08:28am on 10 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
"As for the treason part. You are completely mixed up."
I don't know about mixed up; I know I'm totally confused as to how you make out "Mark is calling this administrations critics traitors in all but name." Or why you should write that his comment is a criticism of 'this administration' when he';s putting forward a point of view he doesn't claim as his own even.
But since I agree with the argument he puts forward, and have I hope made it clear why, it's fortunate, I suppose, that I'm not an American citizen if it's treason to criticise this administration.
Surely that applies, then to the vast majority of Republicans? who have done, and continue to do little else on practically every issue. Including its reaction to the Detroit bomber . . .
Complain about this comment
colonelartist. Ret'd wrote:
not everyone likes to tell tales of travels...some just travel without telling tales to others.
and not because of the "don't ask don't tell" policy.
"Casing" might be the word.
"Am I right, or am I right?"
("The Singing Detective")
Complain about this comment
#174 squirrelist,
164. rodidog:
continued...
And by 'distraction' I mean that it has drawn attention away (if there was much in the first place) from suicide bombings which are successful in other countries, and regularly kill an equivalent number of innocent people as would be travelling on an average short-haul flight, for example, in the USA. Or between Schiphol and Madrid, Berlin or Bologna. And which, surely, we also--I would say--need even more imperatively to find ways of preventing.
So I mention just two other deaths--not twenty, eighty, or a hundred, which I could have done--in other parts of the world, and you dare to tell me, and others, and, by extension the relatives of those who died, because you are in the USA, they are irrelevant to you and America?
-----------------------------------
You got all that from my response? You're over reaching and making conclusions from things not said. And you claim not to misconstrue people's words...right.
What you originally said:
(And in the meantime, while the USA is distracted by all this, anger is fed among some of the very people Obama says the US must reach out to as another young teenager is killed in an air raid; and a policeman is killed by a bomb in Northern Ireland. Neither the result of 'Islamic terrorism'.)
What I said:
I do not consider a lucky miss by a terrorist (or common criminal as Mark would have it) an unnecessary distraction, or why what happens in Northern Ireland a responsibility of the U.S.
Complain about this comment
#340. Squirrelist noticed:
Not a lot of people would come up with the 'Kurdish treason in the Iraq-Iran war' notion in my experience.
Well, since Saddam didn't have any WMDs he must have gassed the Kurds with a deodorant areosol.
[Cyclon B brand supplied by the 'usual suspects'?]
Complain about this comment
Militia man...man part three
[DJ Premier]
Put your money in the bank, and hold rank
Who’s Gonna Take The Weight (*)
Militia Part 1 Part 2 Part 3: Capture (*)
(*)=Gang Starr
Complain about this comment
I was going to recommend to those who continually go on about no Muslim condemning al Quaeda, or speaking against it--which has been countered over and over again with examples, but still gets repeated-- a fascinating interview with a Libyan whose name I did not catch this morning, who did exactly that, spoke of trying to turn people against violence, and towards other kinds of political protest. And giving Muslim youths an alternative to the false 'heroism' of Jihad that Al Quaeda and other militant groups promote.
This was on this morning's 'Weekend World Today' (Sunday 10th January) at about 8.40 am.
Unfortunately, I can't. Because for some reason, on the BBC World Service website re-broadcast (or at least that is what I thought it was) it has been replaced with a rather bland piece about 'Nasheed' music and Malaysian boy bands.
Hmm. It seems very odd, to say the least, that while the BBC was happy to broadcast that to a British audience on the domestic digital channel (DAB) which is how I heard it, it appears, at least for the time being, not suitable for foreign ears.
Could that be because it doesn't fit the image that all Muslims (and certainly Libyan Muslims) must support terrorism and never be heard to criticise it? And that, perhaps, should it be heard (Ariel forbid!) in the USA the poor Beeb will be criticised for having quite the wrong handle on things?
Like allowing an Arab, a Muslim, and (gasp!) a Libyan (not to mention the fact that this is a man who did once support the use of violence and now renounces it) to say many of the same things that I and many others have done our best to on this blog in the last week or so?
I hope not. I will try to keep an eye out for it on the iPlayer page.
Now, if anyone in the BBC Secretariat is reading this blog, the Red Squirrel Party would like a transcript please. (There's an email contact method on their blog. . .)
Complain about this comment
#359 squirrelist,
"As for the treason part. You are completely mixed up."
I don't know about mixed up; I know I'm totally confused as to how you make out "Mark is calling this administrations critics traitors in all but name." Or why you should write that his comment is a criticism of 'this administration' when he';s putting forward a point of view he doesn't claim as his own even.
I posted his comment in question to you, which he did not attribute to anyone else and therefore can be reasonably assumed to be his own, along with my response to it, I don't know how I can be more clear than that. Perhaps you should read it again.
I did not write that his comments were a criticism of 'this administration'. I was writing about his comments and accusations against those who do criticize this administration.
-------------------
But since I agree with the argument he puts forward, and have I hope made it clear why, it's fortunate, I suppose, that I'm not an American citizen if it's treason to criticise this administration.
So you agree that folks who criticize this administration are akin to traitors? Seriously?
-------------------------------
Surely that applies, then to the vast majority of Republicans? who have done, and continue to do little else on practically every issue. Including its reaction to the Detroit bomber . . .
What applies?
Complain about this comment
Obama's (and the United State's in general) siege mentality won't save them from the impending debt defaults. It will be foreclosure writ national and then what?
More bullying? More invasions?
Whatever moral debts the rest of the world owed this most sociopath of nations have been paid and paid and paid again. Unless they're contained, soon, we'll have a broke, crippled, super-nuclear state on our hands.
Time to stop playing pretend friends and start doing what we'll eventually have to do anyway. Shut them down. It can be done without bombs and bullets, but only if we act before it all goes to Hades.
Complain about this comment
Dear readers:
Skip this, if you would, because as far as I can see it's really only relevant to ';im (rodidog) an' me. And you'll get so-o-o-o bored with the inevitable repetitions. And it's a bit long.
361. rodidog:
While I'm grateful for the 'oxygen of publicity' that repeating one of my longer posts to this blog gives me, wouldn't it be simpler to just quote the number?
You're treating this not as an exchange of views or an airing of what any contributor might offer from experience, but as an interrogation, in which, i suppose, I am supposed to be the 'accused'.
Of course I do not know the construction of the Detroit bomber's bomb, nor by what means it was supposed to detonate; if I did, it's hardly likely I would detail either on a public blog, is it?
Though you at least claim knowledge of its explosive capability:
"The chemical explosives carried by the crotch bomber were sufficient to put a good sized hole into the airplane. Only his inability to detonate his bomb, what ever reason that was, saved that airliner."
I have no way of telling whence that 'inability to detonate his bomb' derived. Faulty construction? Tainted chemicaIs? Clumsiiness due to last minute panic, even? I was merely attempting to point out that in other circumstances, a bomber might (as one of the tube bombers actually did) detonate his bomb somewhere other than his intended target. Can you, or anyone else, be certain that the bomb would not have exploded if detonated 8 hours or so earlier? Or that it would not another time?
That's all the additional clarification I'm going to offer. There's no point that I can see in endlessly re-interpreting what has been written. I gave my response to someof the things you wrote; you say I have misinterpreted you, as I understand it. Because I also amplified my own views and opinions generally?
As I say, this isn't an interrogation where one person asks questions and the other answers them like a defendant on court. Nor is it a forum where one delivers statements set in stone and a respondent can only say either they agree or disagree without saying why.
But that seems to be what you want.
Let other readers make up their own minds as to who misinterprets or mischaracterises what.
We can't turn this blog into a continual series of examinations-in-chief, cross-examinations and re-examinations, or no-one will ever get around to saying anything new.
Complain about this comment
362. powermeerkat:
I was hoping to read the colonel's reaction. The point I was making (very elliptically, I must admit, but not so much if you have a reasonable knowledge of the Kurds, Iraq,the Ba'ath Party and Saddam Hussein's coup and the region, had nothing to do with poison gas at all.
To refer to Kurds 'committing treason' against 'their country' (i.e. against a Ba'athist Iraq) is simply an assertion that tells some people who know about the region something.
And since I would still rather like to see the Colonel's explanation of why he wrote that, and his reasoning, I'm not going to go into it any further.
But, as I said, it relates primarily to something else.
Complain about this comment
Ref 365, Rodidog
"So you agree that folks who criticize this administration are akin to traitors? Seriously?
-------------------------------
Surely that applies, then to the vast majority of Republicans? who have done, and continue to do little else on practically every issue. Including its reaction to the Detroit bomber . . .
What applies?"
And let's not forget the climate that existed during the first 5 or 6 years of the Bush Administration when any criticism or hint of opposition was considered high treason and evidence of not supporting our troops.
I think it is important to consider that the left wing of the Democratic party is just as critical of some of President Obama's policies as the far right, the difference is that one side limits its criticism to specific policies while the other opposes, distorts, demonizes and says no to everything and everyone...from healthcare reform to greater focus on Al Qaeda, and from the President to the First Lady (only their dog has stayed out of the GOP radar scope...for now).
I find the attacks on some First Ladies very revealing, and far from unprecedented. From Eleanor to Hillary and Michelle, the wives of Democratic Presidents became lightning rods and an integral part of the GOP attack strategy. I reckon not spending their time smiling, looking pretty and baking cookies is a crime in some circles...
Quite a contrast with the way most of us, Republicans and Democrats, regarded and referred to First Ladies like Barbara and Laura Bush.
Complain about this comment
365. At 10:59am on 10 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
"I posted his comment in question to you, which he did not attribute to anyone else and therefore can be reasonably assumed to be his own, along with my response to it, I don't know how I can be more clear than that. Perhaps you should read it again."
Perhaps you should:
"There is at least an argument that the most potent allies of the militants, the unwitting foot solders of al-Qaeda's cause, are all those columnists and bloggers who want to raise the status of the enemy from mere common criminal to warrior, and who worry that the US is not being sufficiently hysterical."
That is in the third person. It cannot possibly be read as 'his' i.e. Mark's own view or opinion. He has stated an argument that could (and in fact had already) be put forward.
Now, I am not going to prolong this; I am not going to start English grammar lessons here. You are doing exactly what the late lamented Senator McCarthy did.
If you want to fill the rest of this blog telling me what you would prefer I had meant line by line, every one away from its context, go ahead, but you will get no more responses from me.
I think just this one example of how you have misread one sentence is sufficient.
Complain about this comment
Ref 362, powermeerkat
Hopefully you remember that the Reagan/Bush Administration overtly helped the Saddam regime during the Iraq/Iran war. While that war was in progress we did not even attempt to hide our support for Saddam and provided him with the financing, intelligence, military materiel (including chemical weapons), to resist a superior military force and inflict pain on our nemesis.
In addition to direct war-related the Reagan/Bush administration encouraged the flow of money and agricultural credits to help the Saddam regime, and warned him about the high probability of collusion between Kurdish militants and the Iranians.
Don't forget, that's the same Administration that was involved in what became known as the Iran-Contra scandal...
Complain about this comment
Ref 326, powermeerkat
"Have you been to Canaries lately?"
The last time I visited the Canaries was in the 1980s, but I have a sister and several in-laws there with whom we keep in touch.
Yes, things have definitely changed from the way they were when I lived and worked there in the 1960s, and not necessarily for the better. You are right in pointing out the difficulties they are having in dealing with the influx of "boat people" from Africa and the strain that is putting on their limited resources.
Complain about this comment
69. SaintDominick:
I think (now having even less grasp of who is supposed to be committing treason against what, or whom) I'll take refuge with Sir John Harington:
"Treason doth never prosper. What's the reason?
Why, if it doth, none dare call it treason."
Complain about this comment
336. At 03:16am on 10 Jan 2010, Ron Craven wrote:
"...(quick newsflash. Most American and many Canadian professionals have obverseas property regardless of their race creed color or religion. It's fun)."
__________
True enough. And there are some Germans, Brits & Americans who own ski chalets or places on the South West Shore.
But for the most part you don't really think of 'fun' as a reason for buying property in a place that prides itself on bland and spends several months of the year trying to keep road salt off good clothing.
By contrast, when we own "extra" properties, they tend to be in places
that are (a) sunny (b) warm; and (c) have a big, long white sand beach, e.g., South Florida.
Complain about this comment
338. Publius -
Now that was a funny post.
Complain about this comment
Ref 374, interestedforeigner
"By contrast, when we own "extra" properties, they tend to be in places
that are (a) sunny (b) warm; and (c) have a big, long white sand beach, e.g., South Florida."
I agree with your statement, but I would be remiss if I didn't point out that (b) is missing in action at the moment...
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Reports indicate that the Jordanian was not only a double agent, but it was also likely that he was a triple agent. How does a man serve three masters? What kind of man would wish to do so? He must choose one master to serve above the other(s). What amount of trust would a prudent man give such a man who serves more than one master?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
a kind of a person who takes contact with the I-A agencies..If you think that the different I-A agencies dont infilterate into each other, or if they dont pass each other information then you are grossly mistaken or have no idea how the agencies work..If you want to end or limit many conflicts in the world, then all you have to do is to take these I-Agencies out...Now, as far as saddam's kurdish gassing hokus pokus, any government would have done that if some part of its country decided to rebel against the center at the time when the country was at war with another country...Back then, some , among those some your own agencies were holding iranis responsible for that...
Complain about this comment
To refer to Kurds 'committing treason' against 'their country' (i.e. against a Ba'athist Iraq) is simply an assertion that tells some people who know about the region something.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kurds commited treason by armed rebelion against the center (the government of iraq) at the time when the country was at war...Now, compare this with what pakistani taliban threatened to do when India was all ready and itching to attack pakistan or when america was openly floating idea of going into pakistan, ground forces, they simply said, that if inia attacked or if american forces entered pakistan, they would join hands with pakistani army to fight against indians or americans...
Complain about this comment
#367 squirrelist,
You're making assumptions without any facts. The bomb was not on a timer or trigger and needs an excelerant to explode, hence the chemicals in the syringe. So the 'bomb' could not go off by accident or eight hours later. Your point about the London bomber is right, however, we are talking about the Detroit bomber who needed to go through a metal detector and possible further screening. Much different scenario.
Frankly I'm bored now. If you want an exchange of ideas, consider responding to actual comments without the unnecessary gibberish.. I do agree with you on the repeated postings though.
Complain about this comment
colonelartist. Ret'd wrote:
not everyone likes to tell tales of travels...some just travel without telling tales to others.
and not because of the "don't ask don't tell" policy.
"Casing" might be the word.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a reason that I didnt watch that racist movie and there is a reason that i tell people not to watch it, not even if it brings some cheap laughs....and since I didnt watch the movie so I didnt know the the words or terms that movie has streamlined....I guess Baron Cohen must be proud of his work...However before you get the impulse to write that word again, here is something for you to read
http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/borat-an-alternative-discourse-analysis-gilad-atzmon.html
Complain about this comment
(You claim the Kurds in Iraq were American puppets; then call them traitors to an Iraqi regime that murdered them. That simply does not make sense.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Show me the claim where I said kurds in iraq were american puppets, when iraqi government supposedly gassed them, usa wasnt concerned as usa was busy pushing iraq to continue to fight iranian, its when iraq invaded kuwait and afterwords that usa started showing its save the kurds campaign...Just like in the present, when usa is all quiet as pakistani army takes down both pathans and balauch...in a few years time usa doesnt start showing humanity towards pathans and balouch, I guess baloauch will come first, because their geography suits the interest of americans, they have oil and they can be used against iran...
Complain about this comment
380. At 2:24pm on 10 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
#367 squirrelist,
"You're making assumptions without any facts. The bomb was not on a timer or trigger and needs an excelerant to explode, hence the chemicals in the syringe. So the 'bomb' could not go off by accident or eight hours later."
I have made no assumptions, about timers, triggers, chemical detonators, matches, cigarette lighters or anything else. Nor about a bomb going off by accident.
You are, apparently utterly incapable of reading what people actually write, seemingly reading only what you want to read. It seems to be an endemic disease on these blogs. And it does make intelligent conversation impossible.
And youhave the gall to talk about 'gibberish'?
Complain about this comment
379. At 2:23pm on 10 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
You don't like the Kurds do you? You are rather inconsistent about who can be revolutionary or insurrectionist, and who must submit to which authoritarian regimes aren't you?
I really have had enough of all this sort of rubbish on this thread.
Complain about this comment
You don't like the Kurds do you? You are rather inconsistent about who can be revolutionary or insurrectionist, and who must submit to which authoritarian regimes aren't you?
I really have had enough of all this sort of rubbish on this thread.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unfortunately, i dont let my memory stand in the way of personal liking and disliking, nor am i really fond of associating governments with one name or party, so to be iraqi government is iraqi government and american government just as that...its not obama's america or saddam's iraq, the kurds decided to rebel in the middle of the war, putting pressure on iraqi military and government..I consider it as an act of treason...maybe it was iran that supported the kurds rebelian, or maybe it was some kurds greedy or power hungry kurd leaders who thought they got their chance, in any case, the rebelian was crushed and at that time, there was just a luke warm reaction, the west ,especially usa decided to look the other way...Now, compare it with what turkey did to the kurds when american forces were occupying iraq, including kurdishtan, they just allowed turkey to bomb in kurdistan...
Complain about this comment
This morning (MST) brings the sad news that one British journalist was killed and another seriously injured when the USMC patrol they were with was hit by an IED.
It's a reminder of how dangerous war reporting is and a chance to reflect on how much we rely on these brave men and women to get the truth of the situation back to the home front. There are no parades for war correspondents, but they play a vital role in the defense of their nations.
I wish a speedy recovery to Phillip Coburn, and offer my sincere condolences to the colleagues, friends and family of Rupert Hamer. In my book, he died a hero.
Complain about this comment
#386,
With nothing to show what they have been,
as we turn the page,or glance the screen.
Complain about this comment
You say Muhammad, I say Mohammad? The problem is fundementalist Islamic terrorists. Perhaps the US and the world governments should look at where they are coming from! Yes, behold the Islamic republics and mosques, and Islam. Wow! If they are born in Britian, the US, or France, if they are Muslim then they could cause a problem, not all. I think it took stones for his Father to try an stop his son from murdering innocents, and put his own son second. Unfortunately this Father will be a traitor to the Islamic Fundementalist. Most Muslims fail to speak out, and denounce this, but then it is explict in the Koran/Quran. Just another (Kaff ir) Infidel, unless your prayers are said in Arabic, Allah doesn't hear. Well I guess that makes me a pagan.! If their is a God and is a just God I would think you would be judged by your actions when your time is up. Is it potato, or potatoe, spud=pagan?
Complain about this comment
In this article you state that "The US is very jittery at the moment." I am mostly fed up! First, I think the reaction is overblown. Yes, a potential disaster was in the making, but it was stopped. I'm fed up now because my wife will have more trouble getting a visa to the USA! I'm fed up because now there will be more restrictions when we need to fly. We were preparing to fly to the UK when the the attempts were made to blow up planes with liquids. Our arrival and transfer at Heathrow was chaos! Now this comes as we prepare for another arrival and transfer at Heathrow. What chaos awaits this time? The good Lord only knows. So, I'm not jittery; I'm fed up!
Complain about this comment
The Third World (*)
(*)=Immortal Technique
Complain about this comment
So will Senator Harry Reid step down? I mean Trent Lott was forced too. Will him be censured like Wilson, for calling Obama a liar (any politician that moves their lips does that). Or its okay for the Democrats to do as I say, not as I do. What a crock! Reid is an embarassment.
Complain about this comment
To AmericanGrizzly #388
Most people fail to speak out and denounce your post, so they must all agree with you!
I'm sure you agree that you're more likely to be killed by an American than by a foreigner.
So if you took a snapshot of the world over the last month, which groups would come in the top 5 in the number of killings using offensive weapons?
Complain about this comment
I think it took stones for his Father to try an stop his son from murdering innocents, and put his own son second. Unfortunately this Father will be a traitor to the Islamic Fundementalist.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your claim would have made sense if the cia had listened to the father and stopped the son before he went to lets say, yemen or if that was not possible, before he took an american plane to go to usa...Its a perfect case of like father like son, both failed in their attempts, father failed in his attempt to stop the son from carrying out the act, if he had been stopped, he wouldnt have been charged with what he is charged with now, and in usa...and the son failed to blow up the plane...Meanwhile since the buck stopped at obama, the incompetent people who didnt listen to father, and let the son fly into usa in american airliner, still are going to work...if anything that should give you anxiety and make you scared, it should be your willingness to trust the incometent people to protect you...
Complain about this comment
Finally, on the Aboriginal Peoples/ First Nations issue
(this is now a long, and late, response to much earlier postings on this thread)
There are about 1.5 million aboriginal people in Canada, or roughly 5 % of the overall population. Saskatchewan and British Colombia have quite large aboriginal populations.
First, in large measure Canada was settled by treaty, not by conquest. As far as I am aware, only one aboriginal group, the Beothuk of Newfoundland, was wiped out, and that was by smallpox (i.e., white medical ignorance) as opposed to any deliberate attempt at extermination.
Many of the treaties were grossly unequal, or were applied in a grossly unfair or unequal manner. Nevertheless, the original pattern of European contact was determined by these treaties and the trade associated with them, i.e., the fur trade, not conquest. For example, up to 1869 the Hudson's Bay Company had effective suzereignty over a land area comparable in size to the contiguous 48 states, namely everything draining into Hudson's Bay plus the watershed of the Mackenzie (himself an HBC agent), the watersheds of the Fraser and Thomson rivers (again, both HBC agents), the watershed of the Skeena, Vancouver Island, and the Queen Charlottes. Up until about 1849 it also included everything north of the Columbia River.
Anomalously for North America, large scale white settlement of the western half of the country was largely preceded by the presence of the mounted police. While the numbers were very small, they established a legal regime quite different from America. This was not the "wild west". There were two "rebellions" by the Metis on the Prairies, one in 1870, and another in 1885, both led by Louis Riel. Although they have had serious long term ramifications, these rebellions were by the standards of the time pretty small, and very far away. Ironically, while the fallout was serious enough for metis and native people in Western Canada, the far larger consequence was alienation of French speakers. This is itself a long and complicated topic.
Third, what foreigners often fail to grasp in respect of both Canada and the United States is the range and diversity of the first nations. Canada is about 5500 miles wide from Cape Race to Cape Scott, and 3000 miles deep from Point Pelee to Alert. Our native peoples (and this would apply to the US as well) are as different as Egyptians from Japanese. There are hundreds and hundreds of “first nations” in Canada, whose relationships with the Crown are governed by a wide variety of different treaty rights.
Fourth, not all of our "first nations" are native to Canada. For example, the Six Nations Mohawks at Brantford (a large, and very important aboriginal group) come from upstate new York and the Ohio valley. They received the Royal Grant to Joseph Brant after the same unfortunate affair that also brought the United Empire Loyalists to Canada.
Fifth, for over a century, Indian and Northern Affairs were governed by the Indian Act. It may have been well meaning in the context of the times in which it was enacted, but is now recognized to have been both racist and paternalistic. A great deal of injustice, indeed outright evil, has arisen out of the Indian Act. We still live with the legacy of the Indian Act, and it will be a long time yet before that legacy is either forgotten or undone. It was not until 1970 in Saskatchewan that a Provincial government deliberately set out to see that provincial services in heavily aboriginal communities were run by and operated on behalf of their aboriginal majority.
Sixth, first nations range in size and viability. In some first nations, the chief is basically the mayor of a relatively small village, and the band council is in essence the town council. In other cases, e.g., the grand chief of the Crees of Northern Quebec, the chief has the importance of something like the Premier of a smallish provincial government. With the creation of the territory of Nunavut, Canada now has what amounts to a de facto province run by the Inuit, where Inuktitut is an official language on equal standing with English and French.
Seventh, some first nations such as the Eastern Cree in Northern Quebec, or the Turtle Island band, have been quite successful; others have an abysmal record of mismanagement, corruption, domestic violence, substance abuse, illness, and poverty. Some are run democratically; others are classic examples of tinpot tyrannies; still others, particularly in southern Canada, have been prone to infiltration by criminal gangs and all the smuggling, intimidation and all the law enforcement problems that go along with it.
Eighth, roughly 40 % of Canada’s aboriginal population does not live on “the reserve”, but rather in larger urban centers, and lives life among the general population.
Ninth, because of the history of past wrongs and abuses, all governments are now afraid to intervene in Indian affairs. Thus the police may be either hesitant or afraid to attempt to enforce the law on Indian land. This has led to the farcical situation in Caledonia, Ontario, for example. The government will continue to subsidize the existence of band settlements in locations where there is no economic rationale for the existence of the community. The communities are often too small and too remote to permit the provision of public schooling, healthcare, or water, sewers and electric power (so local diesel generators are used), and so on that we take for granted in southern centers. The communities may have been fouinded historically on the fur trade, fundamentally an activity of a hunter-gatherer society, that industry now being simultaneously under attack from animal rights activists and insufficient to support an exploding birthrate. So unemployment is 80 %. Almost nobody graduates from school, so nobody has marketable job skills (Compare & contrast: Aboriginal Canadians - 5 % of population, virtually non-existent in the professions; Jewish Canadians 0.8 % of the population, 25 - 30 % of lawyers, doctors, optometrists, dentists, ...), ; drug abuse and alcoholism are rampant; teenage pregnancy abounds, as does domestic violence.
These are communities that have every social problem imaginable, and no hope of a better future for their inhabitants. The land is held communally, so that nobody can sell or mortgage it, whether to permit them to move elsewhere or to start a business. Where there are valuable natural resources that might be exploited to create jobs and generate wealth, outside, non-native mining or forestry companies will not invest until and unless treaty rights disputes are solved. And treaty rights disputes proceed at a glacial pace. As an example of how serious the treaty rights issue is, the majority of British Columbia – a veritable storehouse of natural resources – lies in areas for which there are no settled treaty rights.
The conditions in some of these communities are as bad as might be found in very poor, underdeveloped countries. So why is it tolerated in Canada, one of the richest and most tolerant countries on earth?
The federal government has constitutional and treaty obligations to support these communities, so it continues to pump in money. Aboriginal Canadians are not necessarily compelled to accept the benefits of Canadian citizenship (they are exempt from all sorts of taxing statutes, for example), but they are fully entitled to benefit from social programs if they wish, the same as any other Canadians. So the money keeps coming. Even Nunavut, which is generally considered to be an highly worthwhile combination of long overdue change, bold experiment and correction of past wrongs, is ultimately only kept afloat by buckets and buckets of federal money.
Only relatively recently has the federal government started to get much tougher about financial accountability for federal funds, about exposing financial mismanagement and corruption, and demanding that dis-empowered band members be treated fairly by their own band councils.
Many of the problems of isolation and poor services could be solved by abandoning the smallest communities, and consolidating then in larger centers. However, that would give rise to all sorts of Constitutional issues, further charges of white paternalism, and, predictably, all of the same problems associated with resettlement in Newfoundland, when the provincial government closed hundreds of small outports for precisely the same reasons.
So, instead, the federal government continues to pour in money rather than to force aboriginal leaders to come up with realistic plans to solve the problems. Many of those social problems persist primarily because the bands themselves are not prepared to take the steps that would end them. Finally, there are very few votes in aboriginal policy, and many Canadians (and disproportionately those who support the present government) do not see why we should be spending any money on “the Indians”, so there is no particular perceived public urgency to solving these problems. Until, of course, the next batch of teenagers dies from sniffing gasoline or glue in some unviable settlement in, say, Labrador.
There is a very great deal of both pride and politics involved, overlain by layers of historical neglect, racism, and injustice. It is tremendously ironic that entrenched constitutional rights or historic treaty rights often appear to stand in the way of the pursuit of rational policies that might reduce or end some of the worst social problems faced by these communities. It is also deeply ironic that the very diversity of Canada’s aboriginal peoples means that it is almost impossible to amend federal legislation to please everybody: They have widely divergent circumstances, interests and needs.
Jean Chretien himself held the portfolio for Indian and Northern affairs, and found it very difficult to make progress.
Later, David Crombie, sometimes referred to as Toronto’s “tiny perfect mayor” held the portfolio. Nobody had a reputation for being more reasonable or more patient, more likeable, or more open to creative suggestions and compromise. He made no progress either.
Still later, Allan Blakeney, retired premier of Saskatchewan was appointed to lead a Royal Commission on Aboriginal Affairs, with the power to actually propose and implement solutions. This is a man of towering ability, integrity, honesty, decency and patience; a Rhodes Scholar, minister of finance and then of health at the time of the introduction of single payer, public health care in Saskatchewan (which introduced the first public healthcare to Canada), and subsequently Premier. A socialist known far and wide for fiscal responsibility. A man of great humility, respected by leaders across the political spectrum, and from one end of Canada to the other, a man who had earned the respect and trust of native leaders from his days as Premier. But even he could make no progress. He eventually resigned from the Commission. It was an exercise in herding cats that he could not solve.
Imagine: a guy who had the ability to stare down the Doctors and the Insurance industry on health care to implement Tommy Douglas’ dream, and yet it wasn’t enough to deal with aboriginal issues. That’s saying something.
No, it is not for lack of trying that these problems have not been solved.
This is, again, a very complex topic, and this posting barely scratches the surface.
Complain about this comment
We were preparing to fly to the UK when the the attempts were made to blow up planes with liquids. Our arrival and transfer at Heathrow was chaos!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Find another airport, the security of heathrow is in the hands of private contractors...to whom size of the handbag could be more important than its contents...and who would sometimes strech the truth by saying that when your luggage was passing through the scaning machine we hadnt received the updated list of articals allowed to carry as hand luggage, but when your luggage had gone through the scanning machine we were faxed the new list,so we will not return the confiscated items...
Complain about this comment
got a funny feelin that the beeb will cull me soon
The Third World [unofficial mash-up/remix] (*)
(*)=Immortal Technique
Complain about this comment
because of the history of past wrongs and abuses, all governments are now afraid to intervene in Indian affairs. Thus the police may be either hesitant or afraid to attempt to enforce the law on Indian land.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And yet the canadian government intervenes in the tribal affairs of distant lands...
Complain about this comment
These are communities that have every social problem imaginable, and no hope of a better future for their inhabitants. The land is held communally, so that nobody can sell or mortgage it, whether to permit them to move elsewhere or to start a business. Where there are valuable natural resources that might be exploited to create jobs and generate wealth, outside, non-native mining or forestry companies will not invest until and unless treaty rights disputes are solved. And treaty rights disputes proceed at a glacial pace. As an example of how serious the treaty rights issue is, the majority of British Columbia – a veritable storehouse of natural resources – lies in areas for which there are no settled treaty rights.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
the natives should use all their resources before americans run out of resources in the middle east, otherwise that part of canada will also end up like tribal areas of pakistan...full of natural resources and people are still poor, they dont own the land....Having said that, the place seems familiar...I think I can be the neo settler over there..
Complain about this comment
392. _marko wrote:
"To AmericanGrizzly #388
Most people fail to speak out and denounce your post, so they must all agree with you!"
I'm sure Grizz would like to think that silence equates to tacit agreement, but it's not at all true.
Sometimes, after a big Sunday lunch, some pointless battles have to be left unfought!
Perhaps we should have a rota system.....
Complain about this comment
On September 11, 2001 terrorists killed 120 innocent Canadians. It was the second largest mass murder of Canadians of all time, being exceeded only by the Air India bombings.
On the same day, at the same time and in the same places, roughly 2800 citizens of other countries were murdered, the vast majority of those people being citizens of friendly and allied countries. The attacks took place in a country to which Canada is linked by several treaties, most notably those of NATO and NORAD, and for which Canada has a joint defensive responsibility.
The then government of Afghanistan gave refuge to the people responsible for those murders. The truculence of the then government of Afghanistan was taken by well over twenty different countries to be an act of war. It led directly to the invasion of Afghanistan by NATO (and other) forces, of which by far the largest proportion were American troops, but also including a small Canadian force.
The subsequent government of Afghanistan has asked that those forces remain. The small Canadian force is presently located at Kandahar and is opposing the very same evil group that gave refuge to the murderers responsible for the deaths on September 11, 2001.
That invasion led to the removal of the then government of Afghanistan. The mass murderers fled to a neighbouring, allegedly "friendly" nation, Pakistan. Canada does not have any armed forces in Pakistan.
As far as I am aware, there is no first nation in Canada that is either hiding criminals wanted internationally for mass murder, nor has the Canadian government refused to extradite terrorists who have committed mass murder, nor has the Canadian government refused to prosecute persons charged with mass murder in accordance with internationally accepted standards of criminal procedure.
On the contrary, Canada has just finished trying and convicting a leader of the Rwandan genocide who tried to hide in Montreal.
Complain about this comment
As far as the Muslims that don't speak out giving tacit/silence approval.
We didn't someone say.
" First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me." Pastor Martin Niemöller
Well I guess the moderate Muslims either agree, or are indifferent....for now....
Complain about this comment
283 Ron / Sam wrote
"One last point. Fat Andy Dalziel, a colleague and no stranger to being blown up, has observed that suicide bombers do indeed meet with 72 virgins post death. The only problem is that one small (in their case)part of their body is missing, making the whole thing pointless (literally)."
It's always stuck me that there could be trouble in paradise if alot of these virgins turn out to be young men ..... especially the sort of young men who may have blown themselves and others up to get there!
Irony ... delicious. It almost makes me wish there was a god!
Complain about this comment
I wish people would stop repeating patent lies claiming that U.S. supplying Saddam Hussein's with chemical weapons.
Neither Ronald Reagan [man "useful idiots" and Moscow lackeys loved to hate) nor anybody else in the U.S. did.
As a matter of fact no other government did either; including those who were traditionaly arming his regime: Russia, France, China, who otherwise were violating official embargo.
Two private German companies have sold Iraq (without German government's approval)chemical components, which could be combined to create binary shells/bombs. And that's what Chemical Ali and his thugs did.
And yes, chemical weapons are WMD.
Which Saddam allegedly (if you believe his defenders and anti-American crowd) didn't have.
Complain about this comment
Wait til usa or for that matter england have used the resources from africa and muslim countries, they will produce not only criminals but terrorists from the native indians resources rich communal places...The canadian government claims not to do anything with the wasting native indians declaring them hopless as its scared of the past abuses of these places, and yet it is ready to change the tribal people of far off places by abusing them...
Complain about this comment
401 grizz
Yeah yeah yeah
And when the IRA and UDA were blowing stuff up were you calling for mass public apologies by the leaders of the various christian groups .... oh and of course all christians individually.
Get some perspective. The VAST majority of muslims are just normal people who hate this stuff as much as we do.
Jeeeez - there are a billion of them .... if they were all out to get us they'd just do it!
Complain about this comment
Ron / Sam posted something earlier about a certain "exotic" poster being a possible instigator.
Ron / Sam seems to have been "disappeared" ...... I was going to post my agreement with his comments, but I don't think I shall now.
Complain about this comment
#383 squirrelist,
Whatever, just let it all out and take a deep breath. I'm really no longer interested right now.
Complain about this comment
Yes a lot of groups did speak out, matter of fact romestu, they executed some German cleargy men against the church doors. Five I believe during WWII, and there many more. No, it is not about leaders, it is about people. But then if your a sheep you get in line. Just like here you speak out. It works.... Sorry if I don't buy that, to coin a British phrase RUBBISH.
Complain about this comment
"As far as the Muslims that don't speak out...."
Complain about this comment
#381
My British Cousins,
This is undoubtedly funny, and gives some insight into how the colonels thought processes work (or rather don't).
So for those who don't click on the link the arguement is this.
Sacha Baron Cohen is (obviously) Jewish. He plays characatures of people who are anti semetic and misogynistic, and 'black' (Ali G, who by the way is not a black character, but rather imitates an American Hip Hop accent because he thinks it is cool and is a middle class kid, a la Tim Westwood.He is in fact just a lost middle class kid). Being a bit straight laced the columnist forgets to mention the character Bruno, who is gay.
The arguement is then that because Sacha is accepted and laughed at, he has special rights not extended to muslims. The arguement for this is that a Muslim comedian, Kaled Abu Aziz, would not be allowed to be anti semetic, therefore British society is racist.
This is a hilarious piece of contorted logic. Firstly it misses the point of the characters, which is that they are an extreme characture that is used to get people to say and do things that they otherwise would not. The comedy is in us, the public, not him, the character. 'Throw the Jew down the well' isn't funny because Borat thinks it is OK, it's funny because a bunch of rednecks would actually sing it (although if you watch the clip a few are horrified and many drunk).
Secondly the point is that Cohen mocks himself, his middle class background and his own religion. He is mocking himself and not putting down another group, which he is welcome to do. And lastly, Khaled is made up. There is no proof that he would be accepted mocking Jews, Muslims or anyone as he doesn't exist.
He could have, of course, used the example of Azhar Usman, the Ayatollah of Comedy, who regularly mocks muslims and the people who are prejudiced against them. That would have proven that the racist society in the US and Britain apply the same standards to Muslim comedy as Jewish. Oh hang on, he was saying the opposite. I guess that's why the made up person.
The author then jumps to accusing Cohen of being mysogenistic because his fiance is converting to Judaism. But defends hois right toforce her to convert (again, absolutely no evidence of even minor coersion or withholding of sex to 'force' anything).
So there you have it you Brits. You are all racist because you don't accept someone that somebody made up doing something that they have not done and not given you a chance to react to,because they say so. And callit a test. So you are all pigs. And hate women. And don't laugh at Azhar, except when you do (If you don't know of him, look him up. He is funny as heck, especiually on Airport Security).
Thank God the guy didn't see Eddie Izzard, you'dall be transvestites as well.
Craven
So, the best,most coherent arguement allday from the colonel is
Complain about this comment
9 years of war in two muslim countries, two hidden wars inside muslim countries of which no one talks about as if its your maternal grand mothers backyard,one brutal occupation for over 60 yrs...and still going on strong...its about time, the westerners spoke up or out against this systematic destruction of muslims lives and livelyhood..
Complain about this comment
409 tigerlily
Good link
And I'm sure they're not alone.
However some people won't let some facts get in the way of their pre-conceptions.
Still, thanks for trying....
Complain about this comment
410 ron
So we Brits have been rumbled .... but we tried to hide our bigotry, piggery and misogynism behind an excess of fluffy liberalism.
Drat, foiled again.
I guess it's back to taking over the world the old fashionned way! (sinister laughter as the men with the white coats and the butterfly nets drag him away.....)
Complain about this comment
Craven
"Thank God the guy didn't see Eddie Izzard, you'dall be transvestites as well."
What an Englishman gets up to on a Sunday is his own business, thank you!
Although we can't hold a candle to the lumberjacks!
Complain about this comment
Price of Honor : Muslim Women Lift the Veil of Silence on the Islamic World Jan Goodwin
The Battle for God , by Karen Armstrong (Paperback - March 2001)
Revival and Reform in Islam , by Fazlur Rahman and Ebrahim Moosa
Triumph of Disorder : Islamic Fundamentalism - the New Face of War , by Morgan Norval (Hardcover - April 1999)
God Has Ninety-Nine Names : Reporting from a Militant Middle East , by Judith Miller ( May 1997)
Cruelty and Silence : War, Tyranny, Uprising, and the Arab World , by Kanan Makiya - Paperback Reprint edition (April 1994)
The Dual Nature of Islamic Fundamentalism , by Johannes J. G. Jansen (Hardcover - April 1997)
Warriors of the Prophet : The Struggle for Islam , by Mark Huband
The Islamic Threat : Myth or Reality? - Third Edition , by John L. Esposito - Oxford University Press - Paperback - 328 pages - July 1999
Muslim Politics , by Dale F. Eickelman and James P. Piscatori - Princeton University Press - Paperback - 240 pages - 1996
Islam Will Conquer All Other Religions And American Power Will Diminish : Read How Allah (God's) Prediction Will Soon Come To Pass , by Mohamed Azad and Bibi Amina (Paperback - March 2001)
Terror in the Mind of God : The Global Rise of Religious Violence -- Updated Edition with a New Preface , by Mark Juergensmeyer - Paperback - 332 pages - Updated edition (September 21, 2001)
The Challenge of Fundamentalism : Political Islam and the New World Disorder (University of California Press -- Comparative Studies in Religion and Society series, No. 9) , by Bassam Tibi - Hardcover - 282 pages (May 1998)
Defining Islam for the Egyptian State : Muftis and Fatwas of the Dar Al-Ifta (Social, Economic, and Political Studies of the Middle East and Asia series) , by Jakob Skovgaard-Petersen (Hardcover - June 1997)
Islam: What the West Needs To Know! 2006 Director Bryan Daly
Obsession:Radical Islams War Against The West. 2006 Director Raphael Shore
Well Rushdie, did anyone reprieve him in the Islamic world. There so many more just published, written, and produced. These are a few.
Complain about this comment
Quite an intriguing dilemma we have here. Failure to declare a war on a noun which results in cuddly concepts and missions of death.
Destruction that is presented as though giving gifts to ones family. Endearing terms and lovable language. Again, Climate change, Non proliferation and traditional concepts.
No wonder some come in uninvited. One needs to be clear or at least unequivocal when conveying to the world exactly what the purpose is. Language written in short quips, leaves much to be interpreted. Extended and deliberate obfuscation of verbiage by verbiage in astronomical proportions is deception by disqualification of potential literate limitations, to those constituents who trust the administration not to deceive.
Could it be the term 'War on terror' suggests we are terrified? Because we have reason to be, you know.
We became the victims on 911 of a very well conceived and executed attack, (successful by them, tragic for us) an attack that took nearly 3k lives. Tragic.
Some call it Jihad by Al qaeda.
A sense of clarity is not what we want to know about. Revenge and setting the world afire is mission critical. Showing the world that big daddy Sammy has a bigger better gun.
They will make anyone pay.
Yet looking at the way Washingtonians are now working or playing, depending on the subject and time of day, one must wonder if perhaps they need their quiet time like kindergarten kids do.
One new objective by some idiotic and preposterous barometer is to get Obama and the nation an apology. This by one politician who had only said what really was the truth. That Obama did not reveal in his speech any connotations which are inherent to some negro Americans. He either meant that Obama was well spoken, Other negro Americans speak with a flavor different than whites, Etc etc etc.
hE APOLOGIZED already and the apology was accepted by Obama. Now some would have him resign because of that. Do you think that Carter, Wilson, Dancing duke, Glenn Beck, Severin, Lou Dobbs, and down the lione all should have their mouths sewn and be ostracized as an example to the rest?
What i am getting is that The president himself is forgiving a person and the administration is trying to make him pay anyway. This will only be able to get squared away by Mr. Obama himself interceding, for if he remains in the background on this issue, one then must assume he is complicit. Assumption are wrong both ways.
People, any people, have the right to say the truth. Lying used to be a crime.
Operation Witchhunt/You Lie?
Complain about this comment
One sentence in comment 270 popped to my eyes when powermeerkat wrote:
"No business opportunities in Afghanistan?"
The same question can be asked related to Yemen, but is the U.S. motivation similar too?
U.S. military’s involvement in Afghanistan may be directly related to the large reserves of natural gas in Turkmenistan. The TAPI Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan- India) gas pipeline can be one answer why U.S. invade Afghanistan. The wider picture is that from my viewpoint U.S. tries to implement its Silk Road Strategy (SRS) by securing control over extensive oil and gas reserves, as well as “protecting” pipeline routes and trade on Eurasian corridor. This militarization is largely directed against China, Russia and Iran.
It appears that the U.S. military may be a wholly owned subsidiary of the international (i.e. American and British oil companies) and the rest of Military-Industrial-Complex - maybe in Yemen too.
More about this issue e.g. in article “Afghanistan – to be or not?” - http://arirusila.wordpress.com/2009/11/02/afghanistan-%e2%80%93-to-be-or-not/
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
ref #416
You are talking about Harry Reid? Well he has said several shameful things in his life, but the people of Nevada will vote him out in about 10 months.
But Trent Lott was forced from his majority post for prasing Strong Thurmond run as a Dixecrat Presidential canidate.
But Democrats from Reid to Rangell to Byrd get a pass.
Complain about this comment
9 yrs of systematic, and target killings of muslims at the hands of western powers have made those muslims who did speak when it was proper to speak, stop speaking at all...You have not noticed that? No one likes to speak on behalf of chronic, incompetent people who live 24/7 for years and years in their victimhood...P.s.I am not talking about jews in israel, I am talking about americans..The american presidents project americans as strong and what not people, while all the americans have done is to whine as first class victims.
Complain about this comment
The arguement is then that because Sacha is accepted and laughed at, he has special rights not extended to muslims.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, look at yourelf and your society in general, any valid critism of occupation of the jews is just laughed at by declaring it anti-sementic and probably in your minds you do associate anyone critising occupation--ergo anti-sementism as Borats and so just laughed at....The movie is made for the westerners...who support occupation because either they are scared of jewish coming back to your european homes or they are just pure racists...so such things are appreciated by them...
Complain about this comment
He could have, of course, used the example of Azhar Usman, the Ayatollah of Comedy,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
He could have,but he didnt...And that what he did is the fact, rest is just fantasy,
Complain about this comment
The power has shifted to the east...and promptly usa invades the strategic places, afghanistan and iraq, is already in central asian countries...Sitting on top of iran, and keeping a close eye on china...The bases in europe no longer needed...
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
419 correct.
Many many shameful things have been said recently and not so recent. Al Sharpton and many other folks while attempting to level the racial divide have said nasty things about whitey. And some were true. Now it does not have to be that way and we just had someone quit for suggesting that we blew up the twin towers ourselves. Why? Because he felt it for the better good. Not his, but the present administration. Good call. however he didn't directly accuse anyone, so he could have stayed. Many times and even on this site people make what they feel to be coded comments and I don't get offended,I see them, I see them sometimes, that is. I does not matter because when upon inspection of myself i would call anyone on anything If I felt conviction to do so. We need to really start acting like we are all in the same boat and not trying to commit mutiny. War on terror? War in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chicago, Massachusetts and everywhere war. When we win them all, who will be left to enjoy all the magnificent freedoms.
Even if everything is free and even if free things are taxed beyond gratuity, we are free to do them now. My point is that its not a black administration for 4 years or maybe 8, It is the highest post achievable by an American Citizen, The Commander In Chief. "We have a long way to go baby."When a woman becomes president we will be calling her husband, should she be married to a man, The first man, Or the second lady.
Thanks magic.
Complain about this comment
#422
LOL, so the fact is that he made something up? Not a very high quality 'fact' that. He could have used the facts and tried to make a coherent arguement, or make something up and go on a meandering waffle that doesn't hang together or stand up to any scrutiny. I also love the way you try to get into Israels right to exist. Sorry dude, that arguement is over.
And you assume westerners support Israel because they are anti semetic? That's rather pathetic when you consider we fought a war against a bunch of psycho killers to stop them wiping the Jewish race out (amongst other things).
It's a bit like trying to portray the current wars as against 'muslims'. In actual fact the wars were against nasty regimes who did very nasty things to muslims.
Wake up, your vision of the world is based on listening to people who make up 'facts' and 'tests' because the truth is, to coin a phrase, inconvenient.
As for power shifting, it certainly is. Iran is tearing itself apart, Russia's growth based on using up it's natural resources is coming to a rather nasty economic end. The power of OPEC is spent as the world moves away from gasoline to electricity powered transportation, peak oil is not far away.
China's growth based on manufacturing cheap goods for Europe and the America's is finished as households save more. Plus their population is falling and for all the talk of expanding China'seconomy based on internal consumption most of the population still live a subsistence lifestyle.
So where is the power? In the centers of technology innovation (particularly), finance and business centers that can exploit it. That's why the banks had to be bailed out, and it's why they will be able to pay the money back.
It's a consolidation of economic power into the Anglosphere (North America, the UK, Australia, India,I could go on. The places talented people choose to live). You can also expect continued growth in Latin America, and continuing economic consolidation with north America as the nations there become increasingly Latino.
There is a 30-40 year shift of power going on, but not the way you hope.
Still, that's the thing with facts. They get in the way of blather.
Craven
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Too much to and so little time.
Certainly Obama has etched his placed in American history among 43 non Black Americans. Ideologies die slowly. One of the few hard examples within our lifetime was the 'Bay of Pigs.' Two men with different visions embarked on an historic undertaking which lead to a phenomenal outcome. One true socialist and humanist(although hardened killer)dead soon afterward, and one pledged socialist turning communist a pledge from the soviets with the US to never invade Cuba in return for missile removal from close proximity.(Cuba)
China has and still does a lot worse to many of its people but because they are so powerful it's subtle suggesting and bribing to seemingly talk friendly in the name of civilized negotiations. No embargo, no, no you can't refine uranium or anything confrontational. Open hearts and pledges by Latin American countries go ignored and continue to be pitted against one another, incentivised by pledged support and economic support, some of which is conditional and at other times withdrawn by modified Zombie language. When every civilized individual understands the narrative society imposes, a new chapter is written correcting the former. It really doesn't matter all that much; as we mature in knowledge, laws are enacted for politically correct behaviors. So much so that what may have been a natural thing to do prior, will be totally regarded as grotesque and unacceptable. Perhaps some day when gadzillions of Gadzialiabytes of laws are written and no more laws will fit anymore anywhere no matter how advanced we get, we will understand them all.
The result may be the return to simply respecting each other and regarding the earth as our mother. Didn't the Indians know that?
Complain about this comment
Wake up, your vision of the world is based on listening to people who make up 'facts' and 'tests' because the truth is, to coin a phrase, inconvenient.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me give you an advice, next time while giving the lecture, dont mention this again, makes you look like..well..err, hmm, a typical american who typically forgets how facts were made up by the american government and presented to security council in wonderfully, with using the latest version of power point and waving anthrax...highly dramatic lies or facts production...
Complain about this comment
#394 Interestedforeigner
Nicely written piece. :=)
Complain about this comment
#429
I'm glad you brought that up.
Colin Powell, decent guy by all accounts.Presents a story basedon some facts, some BS a guy called Curveball made up, and some wilfull interpretation. To be factual (again) there have been severalinquiries by Congress and the Brits and no evidence of anyone in either Government making things up has been found.And the Demswould have loved to find something.
Powell presents this stuff, is widely criticized at the time and since has been shown, along with the administration, to have been completely wrong. Man loses all standing in the world and together with his colleagues pays a political price. The country pays an even bigger one fighting an unnecessary war of choice and not hunting down and killing all the Taliban at the time. Still,once it starts we have to finish it (and it looks like it's finally finishing).
So that leaves you. It's aperfect analogy. A man using stuff that is made up, and a willfull interpretation to make the facts fit his conclusions. Like Colin, you have no crediility when you do that. The question is what price will you pay?
Craven
Complain about this comment
431. At 01:39am on 11 Jan 2010, Ron Craven wrote:
"A man using stuff that is made up, and a willfull interpretation to make the facts fit his conclusions. Like Colin, you have no crediility when you do that. The question is what price will you pay?"
One mustn't let facts get in the way of opinion. . . the principle (I use the word loosely if course) is to drown any that appear with a flood of spam posts, as we see so often. . .
Well, the price won't be exile from blogging, for trying to incite hatred for those he is trying to provoke people against under the guise of support, I can tell you that.
It seems to have become a very common tactic. If nothing else, it succeeds in driving away anyone who is Muslim, willing to be open about it, and happy to share their views on this blog. They don't come back, do they?
So all we get left with is interminable repetition of this 'clash of cultures' junk; and not a single word about ;Nasheed' music or boy bands even. . .Or the Sheikh Imam songs/poems (dear, of course to the squirrels' hearts. . .)
(But then, fortunately, despite all his similar efforts, the resident Vampire still hasn't provoked acts of violence and sabotage by the French and the English against Americans. . .yet . . )
Complain about this comment
404. At 7:55pm on 10 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
Wait til usa or for that matter england have used the resources from africa and muslim countries, they will produce not only criminals but terrorists from the native indians resources rich communal places...The canadian government claims not to do anything with the wasting native indians declaring them hopless as its scared of the past abuses of these places, and yet it is ready to change the tribal people of far off places by abusing them...
_______________________________
At least it is the Canadians who are under the magnifying glass for the moment.
'Colonialism' is the way we humans have been doing business for a very long time. The fact that there are a billion Muslims on the planet says as much about the success of Arab colonial policy in the seventh - tenth centuries, and consequent Turkish and other colonized/converted nations' colonizing successes in the next centuries, as it does about the persuasiveness of Islamic - dare I say it - evangelism. (The word does mean good news, after all, and voluntary conversion must be the result of an appealing message...)
All this discussion revolves around the contrast between colonial policy and, and what exactly? - And some other way that respects the independent right of 'those-who-occupy-the-land-at-the-time-you-become-interested' to self-determination, to choose how, what, and when they will accept cultural influences from outside, to a fair share of the proceeds of the development of their natural and I presume human resources, to protect those resources with the most advanced technologies available, and also to develop their infrastructures and their economies without hindrance.
Colonialism is merely one style of foreign investment. Modern styles of investment - for example investments by private corporations, are often called colonialism by those who would like the profits distributed differently. The great part of the American West was exploited mercilessly by the corporate railroads, who were given monopolies on distribution and hence prices, of the products of hundreds of millions of acres in the nineteenth century. The farmers protested, rioted, organized, formed political parties, and finally organized cooperatives that gave them some control in the marketplace, although not enough.
Don't most dictatorial regimes treat their own nation's citizens and resources after the colonial manner? Wouldn't this be the effect of any corrupt government (e.g. Afghanistan now and forever), and also of any inept government?
I think we would do better to talk about what good government would look like - and how people and their resources would best be utilized to their as well as to the world's advantage.
That discussion would be the turning point that this discussion implies is at hand.
KScurmudgeon
from the context of history
Complain about this comment
385. colonelartist wrote:
Now, I'm not going to bother responding to colonel any more after this, since every post is made to contradict someone, regardless of how self-contradictory the contradiction is. (Hope everyone's paying attention, I had to think carefully about that sentence :-)
Doesn't help that he never either quotes the poster's name or the number of the post he's referring to as nearly everyone else does: a common ploy to make it difficult to see when a poster is being deliberately misrepresented or taken out of context. )
So, on to this example:
". . ,the kurds decided to rebel in the middle of the war, putting pressure on iraqi military and government..I consider it as an act of treason...maybe it was iran that supported the kurds rebelian, or maybe it was some kurds greedy or power hungry kurd leaders who thought they got their chance, in any case, the rebelian was crushed and at that time, there was just a luke warm reaction, the west ,especially usa decided to look the other way...Now, compare it with what turkey did to the kurds when american forces were occupying iraq, including kurdishtan, they just allowed turkey to bomb in kurdistan..."
1) A rebellion, he says, against an existing government or any in de facto control of any already defined territory is wrong.. . .And yet, the coloenel would surely argue that Iraq was an artificially-constructed stae by Western powers, like many others, that took no account of the various regional populations. so is not really, surely, a legitimate country or state.)
So the Intifada against Israel is; the Taliban against the Russian-backed government of Afghanistan must have been. (As would Boudicca's revolt against the Romans, if anyone wants a 'Western' example.) Now that's odd, because we have been led to believe our colonel might think rather the opposite. . .
(A decidedly bizarre argument this, especially as it's one that is and has been used against Palestinians by Israeli and Western Zionists. . .) But then, we are talking about Kurds, so maybe this doesn't apply?
2) The 'West' (i.e. mainly the USA, a 'Christian' country) turned a blind eye to Saddam's Ba'athist Party attacks against the Kurds. As it did, the colonel says, to those of Turkey. (An Islamic country.) Well, they were only Kurds asking for self-determination, so that's OK then. No difference really.
And I could pick on plenty more contradictions, but that would fill these pages for ever. It's pointless trying to have a conversation with (certainly a waste of time arguing with) people who change what they say they say with every other post.
(Or just keep mentioning 'pornographic booths' at airports without evermentioning the single thing about these full-body scanners that makes them, I would think, "Ha'r'am' (sorry, as I've said before, I'm not too clever with transliterations from Arabic) to a very devout ('fundamentalist' if you must) Muslim. . .It's going to require a Fatwah, before some would go through them, I'd have thought. Maybe some Imams have issued one.)
Complain about this comment
434.
Actually, I think I've run with that thing in the last paragraph long enough. If he wants, the colonel can tell us all that of course he knew it all along. I've offered our resident Islamic expert enough opportunities by now to explain it all by himself. I'll explain:
Very devout Muslims consider it utterly wrong, and shameful, to allow themselves to be seen naked or near-naked by strangers in any circumstances. Among those who are very strict in their observance, this includes friends (certainly) and may be extended to include very close family members and their children.
It's been irritating me for ages that we hear a lot about the supposed dangers of 'soft porn' images, especially of children, ending up exposed to public view -- yes, 'colonelartist', you can tell us all that is a typically Western preoccupation, illustrative of Western decadence and irreligiosity, I'll save you the bother--but not that.
(People will perhaps grasp, given what's come to light over recent years, that even the CIA knew. . .)
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
It was a joke (about a long-dead one-time head of a US government agency) in response to Romestu's "lumberjack/cross dressing post" way back and since you can't libel the dead I conclude it must be the way I tell 'em. [Sigh].
Complain about this comment
437:
And anyway, it was a reference to a persistent and well-known rumour, with no endorsement of its veracity. So maybe now you can make it up yourselves, instead :-D
Complain about this comment
437 squirrel
It's not the way you tell them .... it was probably a issue with "product placement".
You must say "vacuum cleaner" to avoid brand names!!!!!!
Anyway this is the 21st century - men do housework (know what I mean, wink wink)
Complain about this comment
439. At 08:00am on 11 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"437 squirrel
It's not the way you tell them .... it was probably a issue with "product placement". You must say "vacuum cleaner" to avoid brand names!!!!!!"
Hadn't thought of that. I'll give that a go,
Complain about this comment
Here goes, rewritten as per instructions:
"Oh, Mr Vacuum Cleaner, I love that dress. . ."
No, it's not really going to work, I can see. . .
Complain about this comment
squirrelpost:
"439. At 08:00am on 11 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote: 437 squirrel: It's not the way you tell them ...."
Our spokeshuman is going into exile for a short period to avoid the risk of further confrontations, disguised as a Danish cartoonist.
(Oops. Maybe we shouldn't have mentioned the last bit?)"
Complain about this comment
War is a Crime + Banks losing Billions is a Crime + Weaponry Industry Is a Crime
Real Situation(*)
(*)=Robert Marley
Check out the real situation:
Nation war against nation.
Where did it all begin?
When will it end?
Well, it seems like: total destruction the only solution,
And there ain't no use: no one can stop them now.
Ain't no use: nobody can stop them now.
Give them an inch, they take a yard;
Give them a yard, they take a mile (ooh);
Once a man and twice a child
And everything is just for a while.
It seems like: total destruction the only solution,
Complain about this comment
439. RomeStu:
Squirrelpost: You don't know anybody who could do some misterhoovering for us while our spokeshuman's gone, do you? He knocked over his ashtray when he left and there are fags all over the carpet.
Complain about this comment
Warning / Wolf In Sheep Clothing(*/**)
(*)=Desi Roots (**)=Big Youth
Complain about this comment
Where Is Your Goldmine(*)
(*)=Ras Michael and the Sons of Negus
Complain about this comment
443. sofa king:
Well, I still don't believe it has to be that way. Though god knows after 2050. . .
(Oops, forgot, not to supposed to be here; big bad wolves lurking. But some sheepskin coats do have sheep underneath. Difficult to tell, often. Human condition. But don't post a link to a song abt that, esp. if it's still in copyright :-) )
Complain about this comment
Pressure Drop(*)
(*)=Toots and the Maytals
It is you (oh yeah)
It is you, you (oh yeah)
It is you (oh yeah)
Cause a pressure drop, oh pressure
Oh yeah pressure drop a drop on you
Complain about this comment
444
naughty naughty naughty squirrels. There's already a race debate on the other thread ..... and now you bring this up.
ps - if they've been knock out of the ashtray they must fag butts, as they're already been smoked.
(I hope we haven't started some lunatic juggernaut rolling on and on and on .....)
Complain about this comment
449. RomeStu:
Squirrelpost:
Can't be worse than some of the steamrollers people here drive roughshod over everybody who tries to show any common sense or a bit of egalitarian socialist spirit. So difficult to smoke them out, too, sometimes. Best thing is to make them the butt of jokes as often as we can, we think.
And stop encouraging our spokeshuman. Or he'll get reefered again.
Complain about this comment
Comments posted to BBC blogs will be removed if they are considered likely to provoke, attack or offend others..
You can read the BBC Blog and messageboard House Rules in full here:
Book Of Rules (*)
(*)=Heptones/Inner Circle
Posting:
The Coup
thats when i step back some to contemplate what few know
sat down wrestle with my thoughts like a sumo
aint no one player that could beat this lunancy
aint no hustler on the street could do a whole community
this is how deep shø¤ can get
it reads macaroni on my birth certificate
poontang is my middle name but i cant hang
i'm getting hustled
only knowing half the game
shø¤ how the eff do i get out of this place.
Fat Cats And Bigga Fish (*)
(*)=The Coup
Complain about this comment
451.sofa king:
Squirrelpost:
Well we suppose it could be very provoking to listen to these lyrics if you only ever listen to Beethoven's Late Quartets. . .Maybe even 'offensive' at a pinch :-D
Now whoever would have suspected that certain people only listened to the Late Quartets. . ? No doubt while they're doing the misterhoovering in their pinnies.
Complain about this comment
" With temperatures hovering around freezing in Edmonton, Canada, participant Sarah Jackson said she felt liberated by the event.
"People you know look around, they're curious and interested and for some reason I feel incredibly comfortable in my underwear on the LRT," she told CTV News.
On its website, Improv Everywhere said groups from Adelaide, Australia, to Zurich, Switzerland had organised their own No Pants Subway Rides"
How about London underground and Heathrow Airport?
P.S. Sorry for being brief: very busy laying pipeline from Afghanistan to Turkemenistan.
["Lier, lier, pants on fire!"]
Complain about this comment
453.powermeerkat:
Squirrelpost:
We are not going to be tempted with funnies, we are off meerkats until they say sorry for that 'joke'.
Complain about this comment
430. At 01:00am on 11 Jan 2010, Over_40_Crowd
____________
Thanks.
Both # 394 and # 400 were written in light of some astonishingly ignorant commentary posted earlier that employed the derogatory, racist terminology "red indians".
Complain about this comment
To squirrelist re: your comment: "It's all very well saying 'the buck stops here', but not if the animal is going to be cut to pieces by roof-to-deer missiles before it gets anywhere near the Oval Office."
With all due respect you clearly don't understand the idiom. In this case the "buck" in question is a dollar not an animal. This bit of American slang has it roots in the trade of animal skins in our frontier days. When one "passes the buck" or says that "the buck stops here", does not have anything to do w/deer but everything to do w/responsibility, evading it or accepting it. But there are no animal targets in this for roof mounted ordnance.
Complain about this comment
Re 456
Squirrelist ...... another one with high-functionning irony filters!
No more humour please, there are too many literalists around today.
Complain about this comment
457 RS
St.D says it is too cold for littoralists, anyhow.
Complain about this comment
So that leaves you. It's aperfect analogy. A man using stuff that is made up, and a willfull interpretation to make the facts fit his conclusions. Like Colin, you have no crediility when you do that. The question is what price will you pay?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Capt or major colin powell went on to become general colin powell, after his famous mai lai report, and then became sec of state and again wrote a perfect presentation full of lies...his reward, he is living quite a luxious life in usa....I on the other hand, still a colonel...Could have by now become a general if I did what colin did..and thats the difference between him and me..Both you and squirellist need to find another analogy..Hyporcrats are the ones who looked the other way, when iraq supposedly used chemical weapons to curb the kurdish rebelion in the middle of war between iraq and iran...Ask those who were secretly doining the contra-iran scandal as they overlook iraqi army quick fix of kurdish rebelion...I said back then and I say now, this incidence was termporarly overlooked because america was afraid iraq would have to end the war with iran sooner than the west wanted..And finaly Ron, i answered your question about whether i think west was antisementic even though it fought against hitler...the mods removed it...your loss.
Complain about this comment
(Or just keep mentioning 'pornographic booths' at airports without evermentioning the single thing about these full-body scanners that makes them, I would think, "Ha'r'am' (sorry, as I've said before, I'm not too clever with transliterations from Arabic) to a very devout ('fundamentalist' if you must) Muslim. . .It's going to require a Fatwah, before some would go through them, I'd have thought. Maybe some Imams have issued one.)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, dont make it into islam and muslim issue...its a segregation issue..whether muslims dislike it or westerners like it, the issue which should concern you is the segregation..You justify the presence of pornographic booth by puting the responsiblity on the reactions of muslims...and at the same time, willingly or unwillingly give and impression that westerners dont mind the pornographic booths, which I refuse to believe..if that was the case, those booths would have been used on every passanger..and if muslims had reacted then, you could have raised this islamic point...
Complain about this comment
Re humor and jokes... A limerick for those who're eager to give, but don't know how to receive.
"I once knew the guy whose name was Bruno
He said; I know all 'bout love.
Fish are fine, and sheep are divine
but iguanas are numero uno"
Now if you know who wrote that you can refer him. Or even render.
[A hint: he was "a U.S. white male" who did't like camels]
Complain about this comment
[A hint: he was "a U.S. white male" who did't like camels]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Millions of white american males, among them you and among them senator reid..Hidding behind one name, Bruno, isnt a bravado..
Complain about this comment
457. At 5:39pm on 11 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"Re 456
Squirrelist ...... another one with high-functionning irony filters!
No more humour please, there are too many literalists around today."
It's a gem, that, isn't it? I feel so proud at having provoked that one. I think it's one of the best we've had in a long time. However, maybe you're right. (Sigh.)
Complain about this comment
460. colonelartist wrote:
Utter nonsense. It's a pity this is the end of this thread. But that post demonstrates as clearly as anything that you know nothing whatsoever about the religious objection I was making.
So I leave it to others to draw the obvious conclusion.
Complain about this comment
460. At 9:16pm on 11 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
Either stop misrepresenting what I said, or respond to the point I made:
"Posts 434/435 "Obama rounds on Critics"
". . .the single thing about these full-body scanners that makes them, I would think, "Ha'r'am'. . .
Very devout Muslims consider it utterly wrong, and shameful, to allow themselves to be seen naked or near-naked by strangers in any circumstances. Among those who are very strict in their observance, this includes friends (certainly) and may be extended to include very close family members and their children. '
You appear to think this is irrelevant. Which I find very surprising indeed, given the impression you try to give people here about your knowledge of Muslims and Islam.
Complain about this comment
458. At 6:59pm on 11 Jan 2010, Interestedforeigner wrote:
"457 RS
St.D says it is too cold for littoralists, anyhow."
Thought he said he came from Brooklyn? That's not between the low and high tide marks? And I;m sure he's not a beachcomber. . .
(Po-faced squirrel; tough expression to maintain. . .)
Complain about this comment
461.powermeerkat:
Squirrelpost:
Nope. Still waiting.
Complain about this comment
327. At 02:14am on 10 Jan 2010, publiusdetroit wrote:
Ref 321 JMM-
It was in fact Al Khafji that I was referring to. You had said no violation of the Saudi boarder but now you have stated, "the Iraqi army did not violate the border with Saudi Arabia until 29 January 1991 when the Iraqi army attacked Al-Khafji not far across the border of occupied Kuwait." My memory was that they were headed for Hafir Al Batin.
Complain about this comment
Re 456, 457, 458:
"Doe!"
(Been itching to do that, thought I'd better take Romestu's advice though. . .but it's a whole new day!)
Complain about this comment
469 squirrel
"a deer! A female ....."
..... now don't go all "Sound of Music" on us!
(Bizarre mental images of red squirrels cavorting in the Alps chased by Grey squirrels in German uniforms....)
Complain about this comment
470. At 08:17am on 12 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
(Bizarre mental images of red squirrels cavorting in the Alps chased by Grey squirrels in German uniforms....)
Funny you should mention that. Just read that we are never, never, to write 'red Indians' (note lower case 'r'). Tricky problem facing the Indian Communist Party coming up . . .
Complain about this comment
471. Squirrel
Nah, those would be Indian reds.
Complain about this comment
". . .the single thing about these full-body scanners that makes them, I would think, "Ha'r'am'. . .
Very devout Muslims consider it utterly wrong, and shameful, to allow themselves to be seen naked or near-naked by strangers in any circumstances. Among those who are very strict in their observance, this includes friends (certainly) and may be extended to include very close family members and their children. '
You appear to think this is irrelevant. Which I find very surprising indeed, given the impression you try to give people here about your knowledge of Muslims and Islam.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
And I am not all surprised that you want to give this first class segregation at the airports an islamic or a muslim twist, instead viewing it as segregation...Even those who claim to not support their governments interferance in muslim countries have internalized this, its all about islam, justification..Dont worry about the very devout muslims, if they consider it to be haram, they will stop traveling...or alternatively they will as muslims have an option to do, go through the pornographic booths while they see the non muslims of the same country, lets say uk, not doing it...They wouldnt stand in those booths voluntarily, gladely to enjoy their pictures be taken, they would do it, because they are required to do so by the non muslim segregatists, so no question of haram or halal...If you are fine and americans are fine with the "blacks sit at the back of the bus" recycled segregation, I have no problem with it..Your society, your rules...
Complain about this comment
Utter nonsense. It's a pity this is the end of this thread. But that post demonstrates as clearly as anything that you know nothing whatsoever about the religious objection I was making.
So I leave it to others to draw the obvious conclusion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you suggesting, that the only reason a muslim would object to these pornographic booths is because of his religon and if their religon had no such objections then they would have happliy stood in those pornographic booths? This is how the jews defend their occupation, how blair defend the war in iraq and how obama defends his open and hidden wars in iraq, afghanistan yemen and pakistan...And lets say if muslims object to opperession, occupation, agrression and pornographic booths because their religon says so, then atleast they are following their belief systems, unlike the democracy loving people who cliam things which they cannot follow through...Two citizens of same western country going to usa, one goes through pornographic booth and the other doesnt, how will the one who doesnt go through it, justify this segregation and still believe in equal treatment is something the west has to explain..
Complain about this comment
Re #467
Sorry, no.
As Gertrude Stein would have put it: a scum is a scum is a scum.
P.S. My condolences for Islam4UK having been banned. ;-(
Complain about this comment
'Two citizens of same western country going to usa, one goes through pornographic booth and the other doesnt, how will the one who doesnt go through it, justify this segregation and still believe in equal treatment is something the west has to explain.."
Umm? good point!
Complain about this comment
When I was younger I used to get stopped going through customs quite regularly. Was I being segregated? Of course not.
Two people from the same country fly to the usa. They both have visas. They both are able to buy tickets, choose their seats, and both arrive safely in the usa. Where's the segregation?
Stupid point.
Complain about this comment
When I was younger I used to get stopped going through customs quite regularly. Was I being segregated? Of course not.
Two people from the same country fly to the usa. They both have visas. They both are able to buy tickets, choose their seats, and both arrive safely in the usa. Where's the segregation?
Stupid point.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
i see this is how the westerners are going to justify the non-pornographic booth line..The segregation is at the airports of departure and at the transit airports..When I travel, I am regularly stopped and taken out of line to either check my papers/passport or myself...I have also been once told to deboard a plane because they wanted to check the "mispelling of my name" I dont mind it, because I dont have the western looking passport, however what I mind is, at times with me, stand people who look like me, but have the western passport..
Complain about this comment
P.S. My condolences for Islam4UK having been banned. ;-(
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Two people from uk going to usa, one belong to islam for uk, the other to neo nazi movement, only one of them will be told to go through the pornographic booth, and it wont be the guy belonging to neo nazi party...a western looking male or female smuggling herion in her or his stomach will not be told to go through the pornographic booth, but a non western looking citizen of the same country would be if he was a muslim...and why? because he is a terrorist suspect..
Complain about this comment
#478 colonelartist -
I am in complete agreement with you. If any are targeted (through profiling, country of passport, etc.), then all should be. I would like to think there are enough people in this world who believe profiling to be unjust, and would stand in solidarity, insisting on passing through your "pornographic" booths.
I hope, should I witness it happening, I will have the courage to do so.
Complain about this comment
Some amount of profiling is just plain common sense. To state otherwise, I believe, displays an astonishing naivete.
Complain about this comment
480. At 8:35pm on 13 Jan 2010, tigerlily wrote:
#478 colonelartist -
I am in complete agreement with you. If any are targeted (through profiling, country of passport, etc.), then all should be. I would like to think there are enough people in this world who believe profiling to be unjust, and would stand in solidarity, insisting on passing through your "pornographic" booths.
I hope, should I witness it happening, I will have the courage to do so.
__________
No, you've missed the point.
If you have read the ret'd colonel's postings here, you should be able to see that he should already be on the "No Fly" list.
Complain about this comment
Some amount of profiling is just plain common sense. To state otherwise, I believe, displays an astonishing naivete.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
To profile out people on the bases of 14 countries, is to make racial profiling official...why should ordinary civilians, and majority, respectful, and educated travelers be made to go through the porn booths, while the rowdy chattered tourists, who invade alcohol part of duty frer shop as if they had never seen or will never see cheap alcohol again, be allowed to not pass through it..This will only increase racism in the west which has a dark history of racism which is only 60 yrs old...I am waiting to see if the non-muslim citizens of 13 countries will also be made to go through the porn booths, or how many westerners, the white ones traveling through or back from those countries will be made to pass through the booths. I hope someone keeps the statistics which then should be made public so that ordinary people would know how the immigration uses this law..rechecking pass ports and papers to see if the person does not have the false papers is one thing, but to segregate particular people because of suspicion of terrorism is quite an other thing..Its a serious accusition, and if someone, the someone who is a representative of the government, as the immigration officers are, accuses me of this, I would simply sue that person...
Complain about this comment
480. tigerlily :
Let me explain something.
Way back when, and I can't remember which thread, one or two people (using the "All terrorists so far have been Muslims, therefore all Muslims must be suspect" argument) suggested therefore that "Muslim" should be searched more thoroughly than anyone else at airports.
I pointed out that this would be discrimination on religious grounds (and racial grounds in some circumstances) which is illegal under British and EU law and would also lead inevitably to obvious segregation of people at airports.(i.e. of those who 'looked' Muslim, though that is of course hardly possible unless people show their religion by their dress,)
The 'colonel' has been going on about this ever since, yet this was the suggestion of one of those posters on this blog who like to denigrate and demonise Muslims and Islam.
If full-body scanners were to be introduced at all airports in the EU if only for flights to the USA to, then everyone would have to go through them. Muslim, Jew, Christian, Jain, Buddhist, pinl. black, brown, yellow, whatever.
The 'colonel' however, ignores that. I presume because he has run out of 'provocative' ideas.
(See 435, 456, 460.)
Complain about this comment
482. At 9:03pm on 13 Jan 2010, Interestedforeigner wrote:
"If you have read the ret'd colonel's postings here, you should be able to see that he should already be on the "No Fly" list."
That's what he'd like you to think; but I very much doubt it.
Complain about this comment
Interestedforeigner/tigerlily:
Have you seenthe way Muslim women wearing the hijab are treated at British airports? I have. I'd like to see the 'colonel's' take on that.
Complain about this comment
If you have read the ret'd colonel's postings here, you should be able to see that he should already be on the "No Fly" list.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
and when I become the neo settler in canada, the day i land into that country, I will be wearing a real cowichan knitted by the indian, not a made in china version of it...
Complain about this comment
476. general penitentiary:
No it isn't a 'good point', at least not as far as the EU is involved. Little matter of the discrimination and Human Rights Acts. . .
Complain about this comment
If full-body scanners were to be introduced at all airports in the EU if only for flights to the USA to, then everyone would have to go through them. Muslim, Jew, Christian, Jain, Buddhist, pinl. black, brown, yellow, whatever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
read the fatwah of obama, he doesnt say all people, he said 14 countries...And EU cannot profile on the bases of race, according you , because it woud be racism and illegal, but it can profile accoridint to countries and under the law of terrorism...Thats why neither EU nor usa comes near this debate...Its another one of EU and USA's "non combatant prisoners because they werent wearing uniform, ergo no geneva law to them, therefore they could be put in guantanamaboy and be subjected to enhanced interrogation techinques.
Complain about this comment
The 'colonel' has been going on about this ever since, yet this was the suggestion of one of those posters on this blog who like to denigrate and demonise Muslims and Islam.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
The colonel has been going on about this ever since obama, the spokeman of change and the winner of peace prize came up with this fatwah of 14 countries, and it seems that obama and the other blogger you mention have something in common, that all muslims are terrorists until proved otherwise...
Complain about this comment
473. At 3:36pm on 12 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote. . .
. . .Rubbish. The old game of taking a long time to reply, never referring to names or numbers, hoping people don't look back at what a poster has actuallywritten so their version, their interpretation, (if repeated often enough) will become the 'truth'.
Complain about this comment
Some 30 posts earlier, you wrote that this blog had come to its end...i have been wondering ever since then why you thought so, just because mark opens a new topic doesnt mean that all of you like..lemmings should just start posting on it and forget the old ones.Mark Mardell is no pied piper who plays his flute (open a new topic) and all of you follow him...
Complain about this comment
Have you seenthe way Muslim women wearing the hijab are treated at British airports? I have. I'd like to see the 'colonel's' take on that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
i stopped using british airports as transit, after their contractors did a " when your luggage was passing through the scanning machine, we had the old list and we received the updated list when the luggage had passed through it, therefore we will confiscate your things" thingie on me...And to be honest, first time, they just took my things by saying not alllowed even though i told them the list has changed, it was after the airline I was traveling with, gave me a photocopy of the new list to show it to the custom/scanner people that I was given this fantastic excuse...
Complain about this comment
493. At 11:08pm on 13 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"I stopped using british airports as transit"
But you have.
It's pointless engaging with you. Too many self-contradictions. Too many inconsistencies. Too many evasions when you are asked about things you tell everyone you know more about than anyone else . . .And that is just another in a very long list.
Boring.
Complain about this comment
Rubbish. The old game of taking a long time to reply, never referring to names or numbers, hoping people don't look back at what a poster has actuallywritten so their version, their interpretation, (if repeated often enough) will become the 'truth'.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I take long time to reply, you complain when I bombard the blog with posts, you complain, there is an arab saying, and if there isnt one, i am making it into a saying, heneceforth, people will complain any which way the camel will sit..You come from a culture of personaliszation and you and yours reflect it on blogs and messageboards, I do not like to speak on personal experances, nor do i personalize anyone...i have already made exemptions to my rule and this has already given a bad taste in my mouth..its not about you and its about me, I will not change my style or say things which fit your A4 assumptions about muslims even though you claim to be different than the rest, yet, you have genuine difficulties in grasping a mere fact, a fact that is never allowed to be discussed in your part of the world, that its less to do with islam and more to do with the hypocrsy of the west.If you want to believe by justifying that these rules which descriminate 14 countries have nothing to do with descrimination and more to do with muslims not liking the porn booth because of their religon, then be its your problem or solution...But when you say that, you imply that non-muslims would not have any objections as their religon is not against it....This is also i will never agree...I dont think any person's belief system allows such things...
Complain about this comment
It's pointless engaging with you. Too many self-contradictions.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I dont use the british airports in transit, what am i supposed to say, thatt I do? And give you some sort of pretend scenario? if I had given a pretend scenario that suited your assumptions, doing what king of monkeys did to the human journalist, you would have said non muslims can google, and if i had given a scenario that you assume I would have written, and mulitplying it with 2, just for fun, you I dont know how muslim women feel and all that bla bla bla...Such things give me headaches, and that which gives me headache, I run away from that..
Complain about this comment
Boring.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Correction, i am not an entertainer who writes here to entertain you...When you discuss politics or whatever these blogs are supposed to discuss, then be prepared to get bored...that who doesnt have the stamina to digest bordom, shouldnt do these things...Just because western media has brought some entertainment and sensation into news and views of the world, doesnt mean that its the norm...
Complain about this comment
482. Interestedforeigner;
481. baroness:
480. tigerlily:
I keep up. Unlike some. Discrimination looks as though it is going top be a matter of course within the USA.
This is the story ofa Mulsim US ciitizen of 40, with a 5 year old child who was asked to remove her hijab* at a US airport and was body-searched befopre boarding and internal flight.
You can also read it here.
(I wonder if they mistook her name for that of a Pakistani pop singer? Come on, colonel, you can tell us all her name. . .)
*i.e. the headscarf, not the all-covering chador even.
Complain about this comment
(I wonder if they mistook her name for that of a Pakistani pop singer? Come on, colonel, you can tell us all her name. . .)
The only name that comes into my mind is that of Nazia Hasan,but she is dead..You definately dont mean zar sanga, the beautifulest voice and voice control....One song by her and all the headaches gone in one second.
http://pukhtunwomen.org/ShinwarayLewangeena
Watch this and if you havent seen it or heard it, enjoy...Parachinar is a town in a tribal areas...Chinar is the name of the tree....the beutifulest place on earth...
Complain about this comment
And we have 500 posts completed, by the grace of colonelartist...
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS