Defeatist Democrats?
Three top Democratic politicians have thrown in the towel, inviting comment that they are running scared, sure of a drubbing in November's elections.
Several Democratic congressmen have already decided not to fight for their seats, and a couple more have actually switched sides.
Its not all bad news for the Democrats. Chris Dodd's is probably doing them a favour by bowing out.
After two decades in the Senate, the Connecticut senator won't go for a sixth term.
He says that he loved his job but the events of the last year had made him take stock of life. He was very aware of his current political standing but that wasn't the reason to go. But it was time to step aside.
What's this about?
As chairman of the Senate banking committee he declared that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were "fundamentally strong". Then the ethics committee cleared him of wrongdoing over a cheap mortgage deal but said being put on a bank's VIP list should have raised "red flags". He backed a scheme that allowed big banks to pay out bonuses to their executive.
The Democrats can't afford to have a toxic link in the public's mind running from "Big Government" to "Big Banking". Who can hate Wall Street the most will surely be a feature of these elections.
Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal will have a better shot at holding the seat.
But the departure of senator Byron Dorgan in North Dakota and Governor Bill Ritter in Colorado must make it easier for Republicans to win.
In Radio 4's look-ahead to 2010, I tipped Colorado as the place to be as it had tight races for Governor, Senate and House. It just got tighter.
The party that wins the White House can't be surprised if it loses seats in the midterms. That's the way it goes.
The danger for President Obama is that some of his most active supporters during the election will feel disillusioned. While they won't vote against their party, they may not turn out, or not campaign with great enthusiasm.
I just don't buy the line that after last year's election people are flooding back to the conservative cause. But the people who lost the election feel like rebels with a cause.
The President's intention to focus on jobs and the economy this year is well known, but there are at least a couple of problems.
First "events, dear boy, events". After the Detroit plot part of Obama's focus, and all of the media's, has been on national security. Of course, politicians can deal with more than one issue at a time. But the media can't, and voters get their impressions through us.
There is an even more fundamental problem: what does he do about jobs and the economy? There are no new measures in the pipeline, no new narrative to tell. Sure he can talk about it al lot but that won't always get headlines. New Labour's one-time tactic of repeatedly re-announcing the same policy is not a good one to follow. There will be a Democratic fight-back but it hasn't started yet.
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~56~RS~)
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Mark:
I strongly disagreed with your title of the blog--Since, some of them also, remarked that they wanted to spend more time with their families and have a chance of a life following their many years (decades) in Public Service......
~Dennis Junior
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"Running scared" is overly dramatic language, I think. Apparently Senator Dodd was behind in the polls to his likely Republican opponent, and the Democrats have a strong candidate in their Attorney General, who has announced for the Senate seat. Dodd is 65 and probably decided he doesn't want to go to a lot of trouble and expense to run again when he might lose anyway. It's better for the Democrats to let AG Blumenthal run, and better for Dodd to retire. That's not "running scared" to me; it's just good sense.
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Hopefully the worm has turned we are about to be rid of the socialist powers in the senate.America is a place where success is honored and not looked at as some plot to screw the poor and down trodden.We do not need to follow Europe to be a land where the government redistributes wealth were it see's fit.
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Senator Dorgan of North Dakota is 67 and will have been in Washington for 30 years, 18 of them in the Senate. This appears to be just a case of someone thinking its time to retire. Must everyone die at their post or be dragged away from it?
Maybe he was tired of the mild Washington winters.
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I think Mark is closer to the truth than many realize. As difficult as it may seem to people abroad, supporting the healthcare reform bill and inability to correct all the economic problems that afflict us, are poison pills for Democrats.
It doesn't really matter if most Americans benefit from healthcare reform, or who created the economic mess we are in, our tendency to blame someone else for our errors and excesses, our inability to accept responsibility for our actions while pretending to be champions of personal responsibility, and the inability of Democrats to fight back the way Republicans do augur substantial GOP gains in November.
The main reason for the Democratic collapse will not be foreign policy, it will be focused almost entirely on pocketbook issues.
Yes, Dodd, Dorgan and others have been in Washington for years, but it would not surpise me in the least if the reason for the decision is influenced in what they have learned through their political lives, and the unequivocal anger of their constituents, is the main reason for throwing in the towel.
I think President Obama and the Democrats in general miscalculated the political climate in the USA, the strength of our "conservative" leanings, and misunderstood the reason for the victories in November 2008. Democratis principles did not contribute to the victories in 2008, the Republicans lost because they over reached during their tenure.
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Ref 3, Crash (aka Magic)
"America is a place where success is honored and not looked at as some plot to screw the poor and down trodden"
What you are now saying is inconsistent with what you suggested a few weeks ago when you were advocating limits to financial compensation to executives and politicians...
What is it? Are you preparing for a GOP victory when compensation for the big boys and passing legislation that facilitates the ability of the wealthiest members of our society to accumulate more wealth is perfectly acceptable and something to be encouraged and supported?
Your tendency to switch positions dependant on the direction of our political winds suggest you should have been captain of a sail boat.
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Term limits would have ended the congressional careers of many of these fellows long ago. Of course, if you believe that practice makes perfect then I suppose it would make sense to give candidates lifetime positions.
It will be interesting to see how all these changes in the Democratic Party play out. I live in PA but I honestly don't know how Specter's change in parties will affect the elections next fall.
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First Daschle, now Dodd and Dorgan.
Perhaps it's time to move to another letter.
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I strongly disagreed with your title of the blog--Since, some of them also, remarked that they wanted to spend more time with their families and have a chance of a life following their many years (decades) in Public Service......
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And now in their old age they realise all of a sudden and majority all at once that they want to spend time with their families? We all know why someone all of a sudden when he or she is over the top of the hill and rolling down to the ther side, coughs up conviently "family" reason to quit politics...Why could not they have just said that they are old and want to retire like any old person...Ideally they should have been able to say that they dont see their victory so they are giving way to new candidate..
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So far, although there are many important elections that will be happening in my area next fall, I have only made up my mind about one vote that I intend to cast in the primaries, and none that I intend to cast in the fall. The events that happen between now and then will matter a great deal in determining for whom my votes are cast.
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Ref 3, Crash (aka Magic)
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How do you know Crash is Magic? If so, how come everyone gets the ban, but me?
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Congress is corrupt and needs to separate from big business and banking lobbyist. The Republicans offer nothing but a return to big business corruption and a repeat of the financial collapse. Their social agenda is Victorian or worse...they would like something like the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Reform is never easy and creating a new direction in a country corrupted by politicians will take time. We have seen this all before. The State and local governments filled their own budget holes with the stimulus money so there was little left to create jobs. The cumbersome bureaucracies make getting funding out and in a manner that protects the corrupt process of who gets what makes this a long process. Maybe in the Spring the original stimulus funds will find their way to actual job creation. People concentrate on the Federal level but there are equal or more issues on the state and local levels of government. The financial services industries are about money and not jobs or the economy. Money follows cheap labor. The Chamber of Commerce insisted on the deals with China and sold it as creating jobs in the US and although everyone knew that would not happen they proceeded. There are no national economic interest as the monied have no such interest. Captialism is showing the faults outlined by Marx and without restraints it will end the leadership of the West. The Republicans represent big business and banking and people should understand that. They bring up social issues to distract from the real agenda and do this at the expense of rebuilding a national economy. Without an upheaval of the people and a demand for ethical government nothing will change, it will all surely crumble as much as Rome, England and the Manchus.
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President Obama did the seemingly impossible, he managed to get as many Americans as fed up with him in less than one year as it took President Bush eight years to do. The President is striking out every time he comes up to bat. The kicker I think was the underhanded way the Democrats handled the medical insurance issue in both Houses of Congress. It was not a free and open debate, it was political chicanery which will involve one sixth of the entire United States economy and affect every American. To not have a free and open debate about that is as infuriating to Americans as not debating the cedeing of national sovereignty to Brussels is for many Brits....or maybe it is much more so. Here the process does matter and the ends doesn't always justify the means.
The nearly successful attack on the plane in Detroit on Christmas day was Santa's lump of coal he presented the Obama administration with. I'll say it again, after 9-11 there wasn't another successful attack on America by al Qaeda on American soil during the Bush administration. That is the benchmark every other president will be judged against. Waterboarding will seem like an unimportant trivial issue the next time hundreds or even thousands of Americans are lying dead, charred to a crisp, blown to smithereens in a smoking ruin on American soil for merely having been in the wrong place at the wrong time going about their daily business. It will most certainly not be acceptable to America. They will react and you know which head will roll. So does President Obama.
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# 11 - colonelartist
"how come everyone gets the ban, but me?"
Because you are not controversial enough - yet!
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"But the media can't, and voters get their impressions through us."
Which is why some think you all should do a better job.
Thanks for your time.
Good bye
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Ref 11, colonel
"How do you know Crash is Magic? If so, how come everyone gets the ban, but me?"
Identical views and solutions. Who knows, maybe the BBC takes it easy on retirees...
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First Daschle, now Dodd and Dorgan.
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How do people come up with such names? These name look more of some sort of a terminology...
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First I am not Crash, as far as I know I have not been banned.
Considering that dodd's opponents is Linda McMahon who is the wife of the owner of the WWE you know he was in trouble.
Here is an interesting stat for Kennedy's vacant seat Scott Brown has a chance to win only 9 points behind and if the third party canidate drops out he can win.
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"Who can hate Wall Street the most will surely be a feature of these elections. "
Hee hee. Ahem. Er... Wellspoke. 'Cheers' as you say.
"I just don't buy the line that after last year's election people are flooding back to the conservative cause. But the people who lost the election feel like rebels with a cause."
Agreed.
Now, about your two factors:
1. hot media herrings:
We the people are, in fact, miopic, obsessive and a bit paranoid. It's a shame, really. 'Cause here in Philadelphia I have seen many projects once stalled, begin to move. (due to Federal funding?) I have seen some jobs close and others open. Some College grads move home. Some find work. Bridges are being built. Literally. Construction is happening in Philly. Business and people are moving IN to town. --Not that you hear about that on CNN or FOX...
2. economic fundamentals: what does he do about jobs and the economy?
Green Jobs. Renew Urban Centers. Invest in your Home Equity through Energy Conserving Renovations. It's all good - Why must there be a 'new narrative'? (silly reporter!) I have a chicken in my pot. I have a house. My trash is being picked up regularly and our cops are dealing with Philly crime. Our board of education is showing promise for improvement. The Phillies did well. The Eagles are actually on top of their division (?!?!).
Life is but a dream, Sweetheart. (Hello, Hello Again - ShaBoom ShaBoom)
'New Energy Business Endeavors' are actually catching 'Main Street Buzz', and that is good.
Real. Change. Takes. Time.
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News Flash.
Part of what makes America 'Great' is our Entrepreneurial Heart. We are the kind of town that likes a changing street map, so that can sell new city maps.
I have been very pessimistic about the USA for quite some time. We had become stagnant. But despite what our canned news seems to be feeding everyone:
--I am slightly more optimistic now than before. *smiles merrily*
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"There are no new measures in the pipeline, no new narrative to tell."
Well then, here's a headline for ya:
US 'Leadership Vaccuum' Entices Young Visionaries Into the Political Sphere
I like the sound of that.
I'm keepin' my fingers crossed & talkin' it up with the Poli Sci Dept.
Fat Cats are falling on both sides of Battle for Capitol Hill.
This is good.
Using guns during a revolution is, like, sooooo outdated. Don't you think?
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saintdominick I have never indicated any kind of restraint to pay in industry,as far as the fat cats in the senate,these are public servants paid by the tax roll(not counting all the back handers they take)so we have a right to comment on their pay.
I agree with the idea of term limits with a 2 term max like the presidency.this would stop a lot of the bullcrap we put up with now from the old boy network.
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11. ColonelArtist--Aren't you forgetting something? Seems to me you promised someone (I think Ron Craven) recently that you would change your name if he was right. And, as it turned out, he was right, but you haven't kept your promise. In English we have many words for people who don't keep their promises but I think the most common one is four letters long and starts with an "L". See if you can figure it out.
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Crash , would we not have the right to be bothered with the pay going to industry leaders that get bail out money or those that profit from supplying our warriors with food and "security"?
Even if we do not have the right to discuss their finances could we not have the right to discuss their rate of tax?
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powermeerkat wrote:
First Daschle, now Dodd and Dorgan.
Perhaps it's time to move to another letter.
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No we still have Durbin
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
It is not the democrats that are defeatist it is the American people. They whine that not enough happens quick enough because the media as Mark points out doesn't bother to tell anything in a truly balanced way.
There are still people that believe the hyped by the press"death panels ".
The they also believe the world arrived last year flat packed from Ikea..
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Very interesting blog thread Mark.
It is likely that elections in the America will be list by the party in power rather than won by their opponents.
Britain is also a two party, first past the post winner takes all country. When their are problems for which there are now solutions acceptable to the voters first one party "wins" and then the other.
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ref #25
offsethardy wrote:
It is not the democrats that are defeatist it is the American people. They whine that not enough happens quick enough because the media as Mark points out doesn't bother to tell anything in a truly balanced way.
There are still people that believe the hyped by the press"death panels ".
The they also believe the world arrived last year flat packed from Ikea..
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No we just don't believe the goverment is the best solution to most problems. Innovation comes from the private sector. We would still be in the 80s on the information super highway if we left it just to the goverment.
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Ref 23, Magic
"No we still have Durbin"
And the leaders of the party of No.
Looks like I owe crash an apology...
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ref #28
SaintDominick wrote:
Ref 23, Magic
"No we still have Durbin"
And the leaders of the party of No.
Looks like I owe crash an apology...
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well we were talking about Ds.
I wish you would get off the party of know, I sent a link a while back on the republican plan which the Dems would not even look at it. And since Obama claimed that all ideas would be considered, that is two broken promises, the other being C-Span viewing of the conference commitee.
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Mark: '"The ethics committee cleared him of wrongdoing over a cheap mortgage deal but said being put on a bank's VIP list should have raised "red flags".
You seriously believe that? The "Ethics committee" doesn't warrent its title in the least! Its intentionally made up of three Republicans and three Democrats so as to more often than not be split down the middle on whether to prosicute any wrongdoing, because all of its members know all too well that both parties are just as guilty as each other of cheating on everything from campaign funding to securing pork for their respective states to the constitution itself. So there is this unspoken deal between the two parties to promis not to go after the other just so long as the other doesn't go after them. So if I were you, I wouldn't put too much stock in what the "Ethics committee" says.
"The party that wins the White House can't be surprised if it loses seats in the midterms. That's the way it goes."
Granted. But I should think that they will be surprised if they lose more seats than any previous incumbant party has lost in past midterms because of the bad economy, attempts to get health care reform through and reaquaint us with our constitution and the international comunity. Surely the 75% of Americans who want health care reform know that the Republicans sure as hell won't provide it, so why would they vote for them?
"The danger for President Obama is that some of his most active supporters during the election will feel disillusioned. While they won't vote against their party, they may not turn out, or not campaign with great enthusiasm."
And this can largely be put down to one reason; the president (magical figure that he is) wasn't nearly as forceful and defensive, and didn't show nearly as much leadership as he should have shown on his health care reforms this past year. Yes he should have returned the power to Congress, but returning the power doesn't mean entrusting it all to them. Could it be that he's losing his magical powers?
"I just don't buy the line that after last year's election people are flooding back to the conservative cause."
Not so long as the Republican party stands for struggle, pain, hunger and obstructionism. But that's not to say that there isn't a huge swathe
of the population which is quite comfortable with those things.
"The President's intention to focus on jobs and the economy this year is well known, but there are at least a couple of problems.
First "events, dear boy, events". After the Detroit plot part of Obama's focus, and all of the media's, has been on national security. Of course, politicians can deal with more than one issue at a time. But the media can't, and voters get their impressions through us."
Sure it can! Well, the 24 hour cable news channels can't, but the BBC surely can! And more Americans get their news from the BBC than you probably think. So come on, we're counting on you!!
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Mr. M.. America is rushing back to more conservative view because of obama and holder and all of his radical left administration... along with no real urgency against muslim radicals... conservatives will win the day for the next few years.. We have never seen such liars in DC.
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offsethardy #25: '"The they (Americans) also believe the world arrived last year flat packed from Ikea.."
I'm an American. I'm a Christian. I believe wholeheartedly in evolution, and that it is how our planet came into existence. Do I fit into your little generalisation? Do you now think I'm a lunatic?
Back to the midterms, I would also like to see some Independents running like Jessie Ventura did in 2008. I'd love it if the Independent party grew to be a force to be reckoned with by the other two parties, if not just a party with its own ideas that can stand solidly apart from the other two parties, much like the Liberal Democrats are in the UK.
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"New Labour's one-time tactic of repeatedly re-announcing the same policy is not a good one to follow"...nor are most of so-called 'New Labour''s other policies which moved the Party sharply to the right and made them more effective servants of capital that the bumbling Tories. That, of course, is really the "even more fundamental problem" - that there's nary a drop of difference between Republicans and Democrats, so obviously "there are no new measures in the pipeline, no new narrative to tell."[i.e. no more 'hope' and 'change' lies to tell that would be believed]. "Sure he can talk about it al lot but that won't" change anything. He's doing exactly what the powerbrokers who installed him in the Oval Office tell him to do and he will continue to do so with the help of any newly elected Republicans or Democrats. It makes perfect sense not to "buy the line that after last year's election people are flooding back to the conservative cause". But please don't then go and buy the even more ridiculous line that corporate toadies Obama and the Democrats are representing any kind of populist or leftish cause. There is every reason for their "most active supporters during the election" to "feel disillusioned", if they ever believed that. And every reason to "vote against their party" and Republicans, and build a third party that really does embody actual 'hope' and 'change'.
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It wasnt that long ago that three people walked right through whitehouse security to attend some gala event the president was having.Now I dont know about everyone else but if I was Obama that should have been a wake up call to the state of the security in this country. I cant believe it took a terrorist on a plane again to wake him up. 2012 cant come soon enough.
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ColonelArtist--Aren't you forgetting something? Seems to me you promised someone (I think Ron Craven) recently that you would change your name if he was right. And, as it turned out, he was right, but you haven't kept your promise. In English we have many words for people who don't keep their promises but I think the most common one is four letters long and starts with an "L". See if you can figure it out.
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Its was david cunard and no, the person didnt hear the phenomenon I was talking about..so no name changing.
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It wasnt that long ago that three people walked right through whitehouse security to attend some gala event the president was having.Now I dont know about everyone else but if I was Obama that should have been a wake up call to the state of the security in this country. I cant believe it took a terrorist on a plane again to wake him up. 2012 cant come soon enough.
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well he should be glad that neither those three party crashers nor this christmas terrorist came to his room at 3 am to whisper to him in his ear "wake up, the terrorist is here, make that call"..
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szechuan chicken;
"Thousands of Americans die every year in car accidents and by hand guns, shouldn't you be advocating to change some of those laws."
No they are fine just the way they are. It is better than hundreds of thousands dying every year at the hands of socialist tyrants running the government. Tell ya what, post your picture somewhere and I'll try to avoid running you over with my car if I see you on your bicycle. And please don't dress up in a deer costume especially around deer hunting season. I wouldn't want to accidentally shoot you by mistake.
BTW, out of curiousity, are you listed in column A or column B?
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And here we have the problem in a nut-shell. Changing sides simply to keep your seat.
Without any sort of party loyalty, or clearly-defined party "policy" those with unsafe seats will cut and run - sacrificing political credibility and honour for personal expediency (re-election).
Obama was pretty clear about what he wanted his administration to do. If they didn't like it they should have jumped a while back.
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Mike Dixon Londoner in Spain wrote (26):
"Britain is also a two party, first past the post winner takes all country."
Shame. A cord of three strands is not easily torn asunder.
With merely two parties, we are but twine... easily unraveled.
May I suggest hemp?
It's stronger than cotton twine and it used to be a major crop in Pennsylvania... before Southern Cotton took over. But then, we're probably as likely to get a third party as we are to bring back hemp fabric. [Read: Not Likely Anytime Soon.]
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GH1618 wrote (#4):
"Senator Dorgan of North Dakota is 67 ... This appears to be just a case of someone thinking its time to retire. "
Agreed. But, making a flap about it is much more exciting - don't you think? Besides... how will you fill a power vacuum unless you advertise that there will soon be a job opening?
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Dearest PursuitOfLove (32),
Mid terms? Where do you study?
Our students are only just now coming back onto campus for the semester...
Oh, and our Astronomy Prof is a devout Christian known to quote scripture during class. As a published astrophysicist, he doesn't think the world is flat, either.
See - there's actually nothing wrong with Christian Scientists. Or Muslim Scientists, for that matter. I worked with some brilliant Hindus once... yummy curry. A friend brought me a lovely sarong.
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32. PursuitOfLove wrote:
"offsethardy #25: '"The they (Americans) also believe the world arrived last year flat packed from Ikea.."
I'm an American. I'm a Christian. I believe wholeheartedly in evolution, and that it is how our planet came into existence. Do I fit into your little generalisation? Do you now think I'm a lunatic?"
You are clearly not a lunatic - but many do not have your enlightenment!
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"Back to the midterms, I would also like to see some Independents running like Jessie Ventura did in 2008. I'd love it if the Independent party grew to be a force to be reckoned with by the other two parties, if not just a party with its own ideas that can stand solidly apart from the other two parties, much like the Liberal Democrats are in the UK."
I too would like to see more independents running.
Instead of changing sides to represent a party whose position is now so far from their own one (well, yesterday's posiition anyway!), they should be running as independent candidates - it might shake up both sides a bit .....
.... oh, but silly me. There's no corporate lobby money in being independent and actually trying to represent the people is there.
My prediction .... the republicans will make gains .... but those gains will have been lost by the Dems not won by Reps.
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#32 I agree, I would like to see Oprah Winfrey get elected to the Senate, and I think Brad Pitt would look very good on the floor, and Terry Bradshaw has some smarts.
I can't remember what 'defeatest' means. I checked...it isn't the person with the biggest or smelliest feet - it's more like "someone who is resigned to defeat without offering positive suggestions". Now I think you can easily say "Hey, I'm going to be defeated, I withdraw, but here's a positive suggestion..." then your not da feetest.
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I must say it doesn't say much for the London School of Engineering that this guy attended classes there for three years and on the most important project of his life he couldn't get something as simple as a detonator to work properly. Wouldn't want to buy anything designed by one of their graduates. I have a hunch the only things they build that blow up are the ones they don't want to :-)
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#31 Cole...for shame, never seen such liars in DC? Shirley you jest, or is this the first time you've looked that-a-way. Even so, beats apathy.
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"Senator Dorgan of North Dakota is 67
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First it was the senator called, Dorgan, then he is from a state called North dakota, and now, he is 67, the plot thickens with every post...
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RomeStu (#38) "And here we have the problem in a nut-shell. Changing sides simply to keep your seat."
Nobody changes parties simply to keep a seat. Either their own views have changed or those of their party have. The practice is not unique to Americans. Churchill was a Conservative, then a Liberal, then a Conservative again.
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American government should join south and north dakotas and have one senator from there, the money saved this way can be used on afghanistan war and to save the banks..
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I will amend my post #45. Senator Lieberman, having lost the Democratic primary election, ran in the general election as an independent. This could be construed as a change "simply to keep (his) seat." But it worked. He continued to caucus with the Democrats, so didn't actually change parties. Call him a rank opportunist if you like.
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#46 I am not certain officer artist, I think you forgot the political DC ratio factor, such that when two states are combined into one state and 4 senators reduced by 3/4 then the level of graft and corruption is factored at 500% over the previous per senator rate, thus causing a net gain is misappropriated funds of 2 to 1 per remainder senator.
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It's a shame the Republicans in the US are allied with the religious right, otherwise I might consider voting for them!
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Democrats like me ARE moving to the right. I started out the year as an Obama Democrat. After his ignoring our job situation and spending all year on health care I am done with him and the Democrat party.
Lie after lie after lie.. spin after spin... That's all I have seen.
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45 gary
Yes, Churchill did change sides, twice. Both times he "crossed the floor" - that is he did it right there and then, not announced that he would wait for the next election.
Also it doubtful that at any time in recent US history there has been such a wide gap between Democrat and Republican, so to change parties shows, either a dramatic and sudden radical change of mind (road to Damascas style), or a high level of political cynicism.
I'd feel this less strongly if they chose to become independents.
I think you are too kind to them when you write "Nobody changes parties simply to keep a seat."
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50 alison
"After his ignoring our job situation and spending all year on health care I am done with him and the Democrat party."
If you are personally having employment worries then you have my deepest sympathies ... but you seem to be expecting Obama to simply "create" jobs. It doesn't work like that. And if you think the job situation has been ignored, then just be thankful that the other lot wasn't in charge.
And it seems odd, as you are so worried about employment, that you are unhappy with the emphasis on health care, which, above all aims to extend (by whatever means) coverage to those most in need of it .... especially those who had experienced a terminal employment worry!
Incidentally - as you're "done" with the Democrats, where will your new loyalties lie, and on what grounds? Please - I really would like to know.
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Buyer's remorse Alison? You're not alone. Of course some of us thought all along that he was just a pig in a poke. OTOH, the other side didn't have much to offer either. Well at least America can say it elected its first African American president...even if he does wind up getting impeached. Which city do you think al Qaeda will target next? Los Angeles? Houston? Chicago? Seattle? Denver? Or will it go for NYC and DC again?
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RomeStu (#51), Senator Specter is perhaps a better example of my point. Specter was first a Democrat (a long time ago), then a Republican for more than 40 years before recently going back to the Democrats. But he was always a centrist. As a Republican Senator he was able to win general elections easily in Democratic Pennsylvania, but in 2004 he had to survive a close Republican primary first. That is because the Republican party has become dominated by its conservative wing in recent years, and has shown an inclination to try to purge moderates and liberals from its ranks, even when they are sure winners in the general election. I would say that the Republican Party of Pennsylvania left Specter rather than the other way around. I don't believe that Specter's views have changed suddenly or radically, and I don't believe he was being cynical in changing parties. He wants to stay in the Senate, and he believes the people of Pennsylvania will elect him in a general election without regard to which party he is in, so why should he risk losing a Republican primary?
In the United States, Senators represent their states, not their parties. In my opinion (as an American and an independent) this is the way it should be.
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Anyone who believes that Dodd really wanted to retire does not understand Washington politics. His leader, Reid, knowing that Dodd faced certain defeat in the November elections, knudged him, behind the closed doors so beloved of the majority, to leave the Senate and enjoy the retirement benefits that the 535 so-called representatives of the U.S. taxpayer have bestowed on themselves for years.
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54 Gary - thanks for all the examples.
I still don't see why they don't go as "independents". It would certainly allow them to represent their state better, although they might find it hard getting funding from the big corporations!
I also wonder whether these politicians are really serving the best interests of the people of their state when they are pretty much ham-stringing the Obama initiative on healthcare ... something that ought ot matter much more to many more people.
signing off now - goodnight all
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At 5:53pm on 06 Jan 2010, Dennis Junior wrote:
"Mark:
I strongly disagreed with your title of the blog--Since, some of them also, remarked that they wanted to spend more time with their families and have a chance of a life following their many years (decades) in Public Service......
"
Oh come on! That is a classic politician's excuse used to save face and avoid admitting they're bowing out to avoid scandal or because they are sure they will lose the next election.
It would be refreshing to hear to hear a politician give a statement announcing their reasons for not running that went something like "I will not be running for re-election this year. I still believe in my party's platform and my party's leadership but the voters in my district have made it clear recently that they would prefer a different voice in Congress and since I've been here long enough to qualify for a very generous pension and can keep any unspent campaign funds I've accumulated over the years I've decided that it's time to move to to Florida and enjoy a comfortable retirement. It's been an honor serving you all. Thank you."
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Mark, your statement that "The danger for President Obama is that some of his most active supporters during the election will feel disillusioned. While they won't vote against their party, they may not turn out, or not campaign with great enthusiasm." may be true, I am one of those disillusioned democrats and I will be voting against my party on all counts. Fact is I saw this coming before the election so I didn't vote for Obama. He is going to bring us down financially just so he can be THE guy that "fixed" health care. You know, the one that is in crisis. Yep that one. Everything is a crisis with this guy except the war on terror which he said is not happening. We haven't even got "cap and trade" on the front burner yet. The democratic TAX AND SPEND is in full swing. Hopefully, we can stop it in time.
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Alison,
I really hope all voters don't think like you do.
"Our guy isn't doing what we voted him to do, I know, let's completely change our ideology and vote for the other side!"
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Ref 50, Alison
"After his ignoring our job situation and spending all year on health care I am done with him and the Democrat party."
Our economic woes and high unemployment have not been ignored. The stimulus package, Bush's TARP, and trillions of dollars from the Fed prevented the economic collapse that President Bush predicted in late 2008. Unfortunately, those initiatives have not been enough to generate the number of jobs that some hoped they would.
Our federal, state, corporate and personal debt levels prevent us from making the investments necessary for sustained economic growth and reductions in unemployment, interest on the debt, lack of consumer confidence, and the migration of jobs and technology overseas means there are no good jobs available...and they are not going to come back any time soon.
Unless significant investment is made on new technologies, particularly in alternative energy sources, and universal healthcare is implemented to reduce corporate operating costs significant reductions in unemployment and a sustainable economic recovery will remain a chimera.
I still support President Obama's vision, and hope his policies succeed because the alternative, saying no and supporting the status quo, are a death sentence for our country.
The "solution" offered by the GOP thus far has been to let our market forces lead the recovery without public funding, unfortunately it is the market forces that need help the most to stay. Our economy needs public funding and our corporations need tax incentives and ways to reduce their operating costs to make their products more competitive in the global market, doing nothing or staying the course spells disaster.
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Chris Dodd has fallen on his sword, Mark, and done the Dem's a service by getting out of the way so Blumenthal can compete for the seat.
Dorgan is a loss, but at 67+, his departure is not surprising, and should have been anticipated.
As for Colorado's Dem Guv, YES the Governor's mansion is important, NO it's not crucial.
I live in the most democrat/liberal orientated State yet we have a (terrible) Republican Governor "Scissorhands". So what?
The Guv at a State level is not significant, except in that State.
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27.
Still here I notice. Interesting enough also
32. At 9:09pm on 06 Jan 2010, PursuitOfLove wrote:
offsethardy #25: '"The they (Americans) also believe the world arrived last year flat packed from Ikea.."
I'm an American. I'm a Christian. I believe wholeheartedly in evolution, and that it is how our planet came into existence. Do I fit into your little generalisation? Do you now think I'm a lunatic?
OK 27. do you also believe in death panels and the flat pack?
32 pursuit.
Are you a little defensive there. Which do you believe in? I think I ,was linking those that believe in death panels and those that believe in a flat earth and a 3000 year old planet (probably without evolution as well).
So I take it you believe in death panels,or did you quote the wrong part.
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"I just don't buy the line that after last year's election people are flooding back to the conservative cause. But the people who lost the election feel like rebels with a cause."
What Democrats are now seeing is what happened to Republicans in 2006. Their base is sore at the direction of the party and the Independents are fleeing to the other side in hopes of balance. Like Republicans then, Democrats believe the majority of Americans are on their side while ignoring the canaries in the mine shaft telling them otherwise. Odds are 2010 will be a rude awakening for many liberal Democrats.
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59 austin cook.
Laughing out loud .
OK .So Democrats for "any body but you Mr" what are all your beefs?
What did the well meaning Obama do so bad? Did you try to get the message through to the DNC, get you goons in line and sort out a decent healthcare package? Or are you democrats against health access. Are you Democrat death panels. The GOP already have the 'Republicans for death panels party.'(disclaimer: "this party bears no resemblance to a real party at all")
What issues do you have. Keep it clean and do try to make sense.
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Its not swapping sides that is the issue with peoples character. It is the timing of it. There are some that swap in times where we need unity to divide. They do not seem to me to have anyone's interest but their own.Spectre swaps because he was disgusted. There are others that swap for gain.
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RomeStu (#56) "I still don't see why they don't go as "independents". It would certainly allow them to represent their state better, although they might find it hard getting funding from the big corporations!"
As far as I am concerned, it would be fine if a significant candidate (such as Specter) were to run as an independent. But there are advantages to belonging to one of the major parties, which have an organization at the disposal of the winner of the state's primary (for those states which have one). Lieberman ran as an independent, but he had no choice, having lost in the primaries. He will probably formally become a Republican at some point.
Senator Wayne Morse switched from the Republican Party to independent in 1952, because he didn't like the choice of Richard Nixon as the Republican Vice Presidential candidate. He became a Democrat before his 1956 reelection campaign. Had he stayed an independent, he might have lost in a three-way race. In those days, it was more difficult to run as an independent. Election laws are written by state legislators, nearly all of whom belong to one of the two major parties. Naturally, they resist accommodating third-party and independent candidates. Court cases arising from the independent candidacies of Eugene McCarthy in 1976 and John Anderson in 1980 (both running for president) have made things easier for independents.
Although many more voters today describe themselves as "independent," most are actually Republocrats, who vote only for major party candidates (most of the others are frivolous). To be taken seriously as an independent, it is usually necessary for a candidate to be established already, as was Lieberman.
As for corporate contributions, I expect experience and political power counts for much more than party affiliation. Members of Congress who have important committee assignments (especially if chairman), and who are likely to be reelected, are in a better position to get support, regardless of party. The problem an independent would have is that, even if one could be relected again and again, he (or she) could never become chairman of a committee or even be assigned to the most important committees.
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Kumbaya, Kumbaya is dead. Americans suddenly understand when they fly on a plane (sooner or later everyone in America flies) it could have been them. Time for Americans to take back their country from the Commie left. On election day the red flag will come down over the captial dome and the stars and stripes will fly again :-) Hail to the red white and blue.
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There will be lots of white-hot anger expressed in the 2010 elections. Liberals, Blue Dogs, obstructionist conservatives all have reason to worry. However, the caveat is that it depends on who they are running against.
If the Health Care bill comes out of conference committee without a public option and without cost controls but with a mandate for everyone to buy insurance or be fined, 2010 will be a Democratic bloodbath.
In 2012, it will depend on the state of the economy and what the public is giving President Obama credit for accomplishing. Pocketbook issues are nearly always way ahead of whatever is in second place, especially if money is being taken from the people's pocketbook with little or no return.
Also important, the 2012 outcome will depend on who the Republicans run. If it's another human fossil or an educated elite of Palin's caliber, President Obama can probably inch past the finish line with the most votes. If he must face Gov. Pawlenty of Minnesota, Obama is probably toast.
November is far off. However, at the moment, it's not about political affiliation. It's about the American middle-class outrage at being criminally exploited and President Obama doing nothing toward justice, toward regulation or toward rectification. The banks we bailed out gave themselves billions in bonuses and the middle class has gotten headlines telling us we're lucky to have employment and don't expect a rise in pay. It's outrage about banks we saved giving themselves billions in bonuses but not making loans to Main Street to help with job growth. It's about massive numbers of home foreclosures but the government not voting to let Bankruptcy judges modify the predatory loans.
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#60 SaintDominick,
Our economic woes and high unemployment have not been ignored. The stimulus package, Bush's TARP, and trillions of dollars from the Fed prevented the economic collapse that President Bush predicted in late 2008. Unfortunately, those initiatives have not been enough to generate the number of jobs that some hoped they would.
-------------------------------
I agree with you that all three of the examples you gave saved us from economic collapse, however temporary. IMO, the reason for the lack luster job growth is becuase the stimulus package was flawed and Bush's economic fix was not fully implemented (the bad bank concept). Those fixes you mentioned, except perhaps for the Fed, are temporary and only momentarily stabilized the economy. Until companies and entrepreneurs have access to affordable credit again, job growth will remain anemic. Assuming of course we don't slide off the deep end first, which will happen to many people in 2010 when their unemployment funds run out.
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#35
#35
Seeksgloryholes,
It was me and you promised if I did not hear the phenomenon in one of the three places, you would change your name.
I have lived in all three, and the idea you describe was never present. I went further, as this was such an interesting concept I checked the scientific journals to see if such an insight had been measured. Most papers pointed out that the loudest insect got eaten.
I went to the places, I lived the life that you asked. In a village in India, one hears nothing but the livestock. Depends where you are in India (the livestock changes) but the animals or the waves sumit up.
In the rain forest one hears only the things too poisonous to be eaten - frogs. And poo throwing monkeys.
In Africa, one hears the bark of the Lion, the laugh of the Hyaena and the death of their prey. No insects crying louder to be heard.
Your promise was to change your name if someone went and did what you asked, and did not hear the 'phenomenon'.
I went, and I did not hear it. The scientists went, and they did not.The charity workers are there, and they do not (I asked a whole bunch,the joy of being engaged with conservation).
You made a promise. Keep it.
Because if a man cannot keep his word, he is no longer a man.
Craven
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All the rats and crooks are deserting the insurance gravy boat. Bye Chris Dodd!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Everyone seems to think that this "Health Care Bill" will help the poor. I disagree as I have been looking hard at the numbers and they do not add up. It will put the Government trillions of dollars further in debt and be a violation of the Constitution at the same time. There is an answer that no one even talks about. In the Tax code there is a provision for each person in America to have a "Tax Free Medical nvestment" It even gives you all sorts of latitude on how to create it. With the Democrats Garbage bill that was snuk through both houses it will be destroyed and the people will have to pay for something they could have had for free. Communism anyone??
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70. Ron Craven:
Ah, but many promises turn out to be conditional, with invisible catch clauses. In this case, it's now that 'you yourself didn't hear the phenomenon', and plainly you didn't; it's not whether the phenomenon was there to be heard or not.
As with many who post here, what "I" say is "right". If "you" can't see it, that just proves it. They all argue in syllogisms with undistributed middles. Always have. . .
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What a shocker! Democratic lawmakers putting in laws and policies that are ruining the United States, then duck and leave. Cowards. Coward, but oh my am I glad they are leaving - even if another Democrat gets elected - lets all pray they are moderate.
Senator Dodd represents everything wrong with American politics with backroom secret deals and he finding "sweethart deals" for own personal financial needs.
The Economic Stimulus Package passed in March was dispicable. If the average person took politics out of the picture and just looked at that Stimulus Package for what is was - THAT PERSON WOULD BE OUTRAGED! Not that the country didn't need some sort of jump start to help the sagging economy, but what happened was so wrong. Authorizing a blank check in the amount of $800 Billion - when "only" $200 Billion was going to spent in 2009. Why the bulk of the money could of been appropriated through the proper checks and balances, I don't know - you'll have to ask some Democrat who is building a new $100 Million dirt road leading to nowhere.
The Health Care Reform Bill - well, if your an American Citizen who feels healthy, read the Bill and you will become ill. Insurance costs to the average person is going to double. It's a debacle.
Another Democrat screwing the average American. No wonder they are leaving. I can't wait til the Mid-Term Elections. Never in my life did I think a Mid-Term Election can save a country. The Democrats may still have a majority but there is no doubt they will lose the 60/40 advantage in the Senate and I've seen some of the Freshman House Members - half of those will be gone. Some of those new House Members the Democrats got in were disgraceful at some of Bank Hearings I watched - I was actually embarressed. I worked on Capital Hill - employed by the Democrats by the way - and I sat there looking at the TV shaking my head. I could not believe so many misinformed and confused people on the Banking Committee. It was just sad - that's the best word - SAD.
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72
I know what 'sick humour' is; only the first of the two words apply to that post.
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Re#23
MagicKirin wrote:
powermeerkat wrote:
First Daschle, now Dodd and Dorgan.
Perhaps it's time to move to another letter.
______________
No we still have Durbin
Ooops! Right!
BTW. "Colonel" has suggested here that North and South Dakota be combined into one state, and the money saved on 2 separate senatorial campaigns could be used to bail out more banks.
I say, safer than using that money to combine Shia and Sunni.
Or PETN and TATP.
But then, as Mark Twain would put it, I'm repeating myself. :-)
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Re sen. Specter, currently from the Democratic Party (again).
As James Bond would put it: I see the Specter of defeat. :-)
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Squirrelpost:
As true socialists, always preferring peace and harmony both within and between species (think 'communism' in terms of 'commune', 'community', or 'communal good' if you would be so kind) we are sopleased to see the germs of a consensus developing after nearly two years of vehement and bitter political partisanship and division.
As we understand it from many posts today, the consensus among American voters (Republicans, Democrats and Independents) is that Republicans are not republican enough, Democrats are not Republican enough, and that anyone who is independent is really republican.
Splendid! (At least in terms of our preferring people to come to an agreement that promotes peaceful co-existence, though we must admit we would prefer American voters to look rather in the opposite ideological direction for it, but you can't have all you want right away, can you?)
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colonelartist wrote:
First Daschle, now Dodd and Dorgan.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
How do people come up with such names? These name look more of some sort of a terminology...
Perhaps they [Daschle, Dodd, Durbin, Dorgan)] should be refered to collectively as Dems?
Versus US?
Now, 'bout that Boxer Day they have in U.K.... :-)
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Re #79
true socialists write: but you can't have all you want right away, can you?
For example burka ban in France, which we, true Socialists oppose.
[ban, id est, not burka]
O well, perhaps, if Socialist Royal wins next presidential election...;)
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Here in Australia and, in particular Tasmania there's a similar trend. My local House of Reps. member Duncan Kerr is resigning his seat after finally getting into government. Twenty years as a politician and his excuse is he wants to get back to being a lawyer (after 20yrs of not doing that!). A least one other Tasmanian Labor pollie is not contesting her seat. And similarly, the Labor government refuses to field candidates in recent by-elections.
It's all very odd.
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In the House, 14 GOP incumbents have decided not to seek re-election, while 10 Democratic incumbents have made the same announcement. Does this mean Republicans are "dropping like flies"?
In the Senate, six Republican incumbents have decided not to seek re-election, while two Democratic incumbents have made the same announcement. Is this evidence of a mass Democratic exodus?
Please BBC I expect better reporting than that. Don´t join the Fox news and the ridiculous Republican bandwagon.
Dissapointed.
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Where does Dodd's departure leave his counterpart Barney the dinosaur in the House? Isn't it time for him to go too? Hasn't he done enough damage for one lifetime?
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I see the media narrative has spread across the pond that two Democratic US Senators retiring is bad news for their party. One wonders what portent lies in the fact that SIX Republican senators are retiring (placing their seats in play), or that more Republicans in the US House of Representatives are calling it quits than are Democrats.
No, it's the Democrats who are trouble, because the media says so. That a greater number of Republicans are retiring apparently does not invite "comment that they are running scared."
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81. At 05:23am on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
O well, perhaps, if Socialist Royal wins next presidential election...;)
She won't; not head of the Partie Socialiste any more. Anyway, Royale a socialist?!!!!! (The Squirrels are sending me out to buy red fur die, they say the very idea has turned theirs white in shock.)
And you're not catching me on the other thing; yes, I know it was suggested, don't think it got to be law. Equality or nothing. If you want to ban religious dress, then Orthodox Jewish men could not wear long black coats and hats, or Sikhs turbans, as many in France pointed out, so are you going to approve that, or discriminate against one religion because it happens to be the scary one (for some) of the day?
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Can't wait till we move (in November) to letter "F".
F like that Saturday Night Live comedian, Al Franken?
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Re #86
re burka..
I don't mind burka per say. I wouldn't even mind if their aficionados organized (say in SA or Iran) a Wet Burka Contest.
Problem is ... security.
Quite a few female terrorists (or male terrorists disguised as women) hide their explosive charges under burkas.
BTW. for the same reason there was objection in some quarters (not only in India, but also in Canada) to Sikhs wearing turbans.
If some Hassidic Jews start conducting bombing attacks I shall object to long black coats and hats as well.
P.S. Have you ever tried to enter a bank (even a Moscow bank you refered to) in a balaklava? :-)
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These democratics have had low approval numbers all summer. They can count their options on one finger.
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86. At 06:44am on 07 Jan 2010, Squirrelist wrote:
Something off-topic.
Don't let's get into that again. Just a) only just got back from France and b) I'd just been over at the Euro blog, and wasn't really thinking.
Ignore it. (The Squirrels are reducing my nutty chocolate bar ration again as punishment.)
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63. At 02:25am on 07 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
What Democrats are now seeing is what happened to Republicans in 2006. Their base is sore at the direction of the party and the Independents are fleeing to the other side in hopes of balance. Like Republicans then, Democrats believe the majority of Americans are on their side while ignoring the canaries in the mine shaft telling them otherwise. Odds are 2010 will be a rude awakening for many liberal Democrats.
__________________________________________
You got it. we are a country searching for a middle. Both sets of radicals are not only out of touch, they are delusional in their estimation of who the majority is, what the majority thinks, and what is possible - make that doable, here.
I believe Obama is a pragmatist - he wants what is doable. But he needs a powerbase to overcome Pelosi and her rabid socilistas, and to face down the take-no-prisoners Republicans, whose goal is national paralysis unless they are in charge. There is a message here somewhere, and it is a message of hope.
KScurmudgeon
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You seem to have flushed out a number of Republican partisans with this, Mark. Who knew they were there?
Although, as has been pointed out, there are at this point more red congressional seats loosing occupants than blue, the perception that they might make a gain in 2010 is enough to set the Repub's cheering mightily. I thought that was the norm in a by-election. But they will claim it an extraordinary victory. They will work all night and take credit for the sunrise. Do you trust them?
KScurmudgeon
looking for substance in the G.O.P, but finding a carnival side show.
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88. At 07:09am on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
P.S. Have you ever tried to enter a bank (even a Moscow bank you refered to) in a balaklava? :-)
Of course not. Why would I want to go into a bank dressed up as a Turkish sweet?
(As I said, the rest is off-topic. I'm not being evasive, but I don't want to be responsible for this thread going the same way as others have. I shouldn't have responded in the first place.)
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#93
I thought you liked sweets, like baklava.
But O.K. I won't even mention baLAklava.
But have you ever tried to enter a bank in a closed motorcyle helmet?
This is not off topic, btw,; the next U.S. election is going to be to a large extent over security. [and, as usual, "economy, stupid"]
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46. At 10:23pm on 06 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
American government should join south and north dakotas and have one senator from there, the money saved this way can be used on afghanistan war and to save the banks..
______________________
The story told here is that North Dakota has threatened to change its name to Dakota, making the other state appear to be an appendage.
We in Kansas argue about the pronunciation of Ar-Kansas, the state just to our south-east.
Arkansas has two official spellings of the name.
Texas was admitted with the provision that it could divide itself into three states, should it wish to increase its influence in Washington. (That was to protect the future influence of slavery.)
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Re #91 "Pelosi and her rabid socialistas"...
Pelosi is not the only problem.
Reid is another.
I mean Harry Read from Nevada.
Richard, currently resident of Colorado, is already harmless.
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R%e #95 KScurumdgeon wrote:
"Texas was admitted with the provision that it could divide itself into three states, should it wish to increase its influence in Washington"
And Hawai with the provision that it could divide visiting tourists between Oahu, Maui and Big Is., and shun its smaller appendages. ;-)
P.S. Would Arch-kansas rub you the wrong way?
Or "you are not in Kansas anymore"? :-)
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The ArKansas river runs through both us and them. And frankly, not being a native here, it always rubs me wrong to hear newscasters say it that way. But the natives say Ar-Kansas with such a serious deadpan that I am forced to grin every time.
After twenty years I still have to pinch myself that I have lived to drive down country roads almost every day, bounded only by two barbed wire fences and neither a person nor another car in sight. For a kid from L.A., that is still a dream come true.
KScurmudgeon, by choice and good sense Kansan
Good night
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62 offsethardy wrote
"32 pursuit.
Are you a little defensive there. Which do you believe in? I think I ,was linking those that believe in death panels and those that believe in a flat earth and a 3000 year old planet (probably without evolution as well)."
______________
3000 years old? You must know some "more than fundamentalist" christians! Around 6000 years old, please.
Check out this link to see that it must be true - the Sumerians watched it happen and wrote about it in their cuneiform writing (recently translated) ...
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/sumerians_look_on_in_confusion_as
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86. squirrelist wrote:
"powermeerkat wrote:
O well, perhaps, if Socialist Royal wins next presidential election...;)
She won't; not head of the Partie Socialiste any more. Anyway, Royale a socialist?!!!!! "
Squirrelist - don't be so shocked by this .... remember there are many on this blog who have no idea what a socialist is. They think Obama is one too!!!
Socialist = anyone to the political left of Reagan / Thatcher!
And you're not catching me on the other thing; yes, I know it was suggested, don't think it got to be law. Equality or nothing. If you want to ban religious dress, then Orthodox Jewish men could not wear long black coats and hats, or Sikhs turbans, as many in France pointed out, so are you going to approve that, or discriminate against one religion because it happens to be the scary one (for some) of the day?
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re my 100
ignore the last big paragraph - I forgot to delete it after pasting the whole post in!!
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ref #47
GH1618 wrote:
I will amend my post #45. Senator Lieberman, having lost the Democratic primary election, ran in the general election as an independent. This could be construed as a change "simply to keep (his) seat." But it worked. He continued to caucus with the Democrats, so didn't actually change parties. Call him a rank opportunist if you like.
_________________-
Well the problem with the primary system is the extremists in both parties dominate. Lieberman was respected throughout the state and outsde players like Move on and Kos pushed a nobody in and used smear taticts against a minority. The fact that Liberman won convincingly showed his courage against extremists.
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ref #84
MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Where does Dodd's departure leave his counterpart Barney the dinosaur in the House? Isn't it time for him to go too? Hasn't he done enough damage for one lifetime?
________________
Barney is an egomaniac who won his seat as a carpet bagger when the last pope order Father Drianan to resign. Since most Mass voters are lemmings he will retain his seat.
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94. At 08:18am on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"But have you ever tried to enter a bank in a closed motorcyle helmet?"
The answer's 'no' to that too. It's been frowned on here for so long I'm not even sure I can remember a time anyone went into one without taking their helmet off even. (DC will no doubt tell us when people did.) Goes for most shops as well, I think.
As to the next elections being about 'security', well I hope for the American people's sake, and their future economic well-being, and that of their environment, that it's that sort of security they are about, not just about securing people from exploding underwear.
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101. At 09:40am on 07 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
re my 100
"ignore the last big paragraph - I forgot to delete it after pasting the whole post in!!"
Hope they do, I'm down to one Topic a week now because of that.
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100. At 09:36am on 07 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"Squirrelist - don't be so shocked by this .... remember there are many on this blog who have no idea what a socialist is. They think Obama is one too!!!"
Well, we've got a few months yet. We of the Party will just have to intensify and improve our propaganda, I mean persuasive abilities.
(After all--using the same logic as the capitalist running-dog lackeys often do here--the Squirrel Party's influence wasinstrumental in getting someone who was at least a Democrat in, because McCain was thought likely to win until we were founded.)
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99. At 09:25am on 07 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"the Sumerians watched it happen'
Brilliant, that link!
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Well, RomeStu [#100],
I used to eat so called socialists for breakfast for many years, so I think I know how they taste.
[Threw up each time after the meal, but hey, somebody had to do it, so why not meerkats, who have been known to succesfully attack animals many times their size (including cobras and rattlesnakes) when they determined they constituted a real threat to their group]
Squirrelist will hasten to assure me that those were not TRUE socialists, like himself, but crypto totalitarian commie wanabies, and I'm willing to grant him a benefit of the doubt. :-)
[Marx famously claimed he was not a Marxist]
BTW. Is "Morning Star" still being published in UK?
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99. RomeStu:
A justification for the Republicans to use Marcus's tax dollars to fund DNA sampling and cloning, it's bound to be a winning policy for next November, don't you think?
(And then they can declare another whole new war as well, without the risk of having opponents well-enough evolved to fight back!! Just like Liebermann wanted, so they'll get the Independent vote too. They could be running the USA for centuries!)
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Re #98 et al.
There is a lovely musicial link between Kansas and Texas.
Pat Metheny and Lyle Mays' 1981 fusion album called
"As falls Wichita, so falls Wichita Falls"
P.S. I only vaguely remember debate between 2 Arkansas senators regarding the state name's pronunciation.
But, you must forgive me, I was very, very, very young then. :-)
P.P.S. What's the situation in Lebanon these days? As calm as usual?
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Re #106
No!!! It was squirrels who founded ACORN?
SHOCK! SHOCK! :-)))
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Re #98 "neither a person nor another car in sight"
"Going to Montana soon
wanna be a dental floss tycoon"
Remember who wrote this?
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Goodness some Americans really do need some history, geography and now natural history. Meerkats, unless they are unlucky in a zoo are NEVER known to successfully attack rattlesnakes. Meerkats come from southern Africa (mainly the Kalahari Desert) and rattlesnakes North America, in the wild these animals would never meet. Just like why polar bears never eat penguins (ignoring the joke about wrappers).
First Marcus does not realise Virginia has never been part of the UK, now Powermeekat thinks rattlesnakes come from Africa. What next a serious discussion on how the Confederate Cavalry stopped the advance of Hannibal in Italy?
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108. At 10:44am on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Squirrelist will hasten to assure me that those were not TRUE socialists, like himself, but crypto totalitarian commie wanabies, and I'm willing to grant him a benefit of the doubt. :-)"
If they made you that poorly, they must have been. Probably Stalinists or Stakhanovites. Or maybe Royale-ists. They made quite a few people in France feel a bit sick.
And yes, of course; you can even read the Morning Star online. It was 'Marxism Today' that died, sadly. (If only they'd changed the title to 'Marxism Tomorrow'. . .)
However, we really ought not to disrupt the process of integration of American political thought with these asides.
(Or should that be 'disintegration'?)
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meerkat
"[Marx famously claimed he was not a Marxist]
BTW. Is "Morning Star" still being published in UK?"
First - of course Marx was not a Marxist .... supporters and followers of his ideas were.
And Christ wasn't a Christian either!
Second - yes the Morning Star is still published (no I don't read it).
Circulation estimated at 15-20,000 and available in at least one national newsagent chain.
(I don't know what relevance this has to the thread, but you asked)
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109 squirrelist
OMG - imagine the weapons needed by joe public if Tyrannosaurus Rex was out there to be hunted! Or to protect one's family from velociraptors! Second ammendment, oh yes.
I always knew Jurassic Park was a prescient docu-drama.
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113. At 11:10am on 07 Jan 2010, D R Murrell wrote:
"What next, a serious discussion on how the Confederate Cavalry stopped the advance of Hannibal in Italy?"
How did they do that? Did they nuke the elephants?
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Ahem. This blog is getting out of hand. We're not here to have fun you know. (I forget who told me that a while ago.)
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113.D R Murrell:
I've often wondered why the Spaniards re-fight the battle of Bull Run every year in Pamplona.
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115. At 11:15am on 07 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"(I don't know what relevance this has to the thread, but you asked)"
Well it was your fault, really. It was No 100 that set it off, I think. I disclaim any responsibilty :-D
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109 & 117 squirrel
But imagine what the military-industrial complex could do with a mass-produced "war-dinosaur" clone army. Imagine legions of armour-plated brontosauri charging into Tora Bora ..... ooooh, it makes me quite dizzy with anticipation.
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Re#113
Gee, Darrel!
You haven't known that meerkats have been succesfully transplanted to Arizona and California long time ago?
My group used to live near Mohave Desert for a while, and I can assure you that we took care of more than one rattlesnake there.
You dont know that our Coral Snakes are closely related to African and Asian cobra, either?
And that "meerkats can attack without any warning signs"? :-)
P.S. My Asian cousin, Rikki-Tikki is currently taking care of some snakes in Waziristan.
I leave it to you to go there and authoritatively establish on the ground what kind they are.
[my guess - kraits]
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Last desperate attempt to get this thing back on the rails again before I go off to hibernate* (it's cold):
Maybe meerkats don't eat rattlesnakes, but people manufacture their own myths here. . .just as Republicans do about Teddy Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, Bush(es), Mcain, Palin . . .
*Yes, I know, but see above. . . .
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116. RomeStu:
Yes, I forgot they'd get the NRA vote, too. (As, being a Euro, one does tend to misunderestimate the influence of the NRA.)
Quite seriously, does the NRA endorse candidates, contribute to individual election campaigns, all that sort of thing, as well as lobby? I genuinely don't know. And what sort of proportion of Democrat and Republicans speak out against them, if any? And if Meerkat is right about that, will they be more infIuential if 'security' is the issue in November?
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Re#115 "It was 'Marxism Today' that died, sadly. (If only they'd changed the title to 'Marxism Tomorrow'. . .)"
Or, perhaps, "Madrassas Forever". [you have to go with a flow]
Too bad.
BTW. Thanks for the info.
The reason I asked was that many moons ago I used to read "Morning Star". And "L'Humanite".
Although not as regularly as "Pravda" and "Izvestia".
[No, not for pleasure, but it was quite often fun nevertheless :-)]
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Powermeerkat – Who the heck is Darrel? It’s David old bean, though I am not saying what the R stands for, other than its my father’s first name!
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"how the Confederate Cavalry stopped the advance of Hannibal in Italy?"
By Stealth. It was a special-op, so secret that till this very day almost nobody knows about it.
Suffice to say it involved Bull Run and the Cavalry men ended without even a Wounded Knee.
[Hannibal, despite popular myths, was no Sherman; more like an Elephant Man]
BTW next time you're in trouble don't call us. We'll call you.
[times are tough, money's tight, and you can't cover our costs like Kuwait did.]
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125. At 12:05pm on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Although not as regularly as "Pravda" and "Izvestia"."
What was the old Russian joke? 'There's no news in Pravda, and no truth in Izvestia'?
"[No, not for pleasure . . .]"
Hmm. That remark has a slightly uncomfortable effect on the squirrel spine . . . quite distinct from that of the temperature today in, ahem, the location I am suddenly reluctant to disclose. . .
Must scurry away . . .
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127:
Sigh. Look, I just want it on the record I tried.
(118, 123, 124 . . .)
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"I just don't buy the line..."
Does anyone else remember when BBC journalists could read and write prose - and a subliterate verbalisation as lazy as this would be struck out by a sub-editor? Sure it wasn't that long ago?
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127. powermeerkat:
It was Italy; was there a buffalo bill included in the charges?
(Sorry, this really must stop . . . .we're all going to get thrown out. Or reefered I think is the word they use now. )
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Ref #125 Powermeerkat
Re#115 "It was 'Marxism Today' that died, sadly. (If only they'd changed the title to 'Marxism Tomorrow'. . .)"
Or, perhaps, "Madrassas Forever". [you have to go with a flow]
______________________________
Are you assigning Islam a place in political spectrum or just extremist Islamists?
If its extremists, I'd have put them on the right side of middle of the roaders like Reagan and the Bushes. Maybe somewhere near Jerry Falwell...
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Ref 92. KScurmudgeon
"Although, as has been pointed out, there are at this point more red congressional seats loosing occupants than blue, the perception that they might make a gain in 2010 is enough to set the Repub's cheering mightily."
Some Republicans are likely to lose their seats in November, especially those in Democratic districts, but there is no doubt that the demonization of healthcare reform has been very effective and thst the Democrats will experience unnecessary loses in November because of President Obama's failure to articulate the benefits of healthcare reform convincingly and because of his reluctance to place blame or explain the difficulties involved in solving the economic problems he inherited.
I have a hard time understanding how legislation that will provide medical coverage for millions of uninsured people can be considered "rationing healthcare", how helping seniors understand the importance of Living Wills is tantamount to facing "death panels", and how legislation designed to reduce the operating costs of small businesses can be described as detrimental to Main Street but, sadly, that is precisely what the champions of the insurance industry have managed to do and it is evident that many have fallen for it.
The same is true for our economic woes. The trillions in debt and the real estate malaise that existed when President Obama was inaugurated have been forgotten thanks to a very effective campaign of negativism and distortion. As is evident in some of the posts in this blog, many are convinced that the economic conditions described accurately by President Bush in 2008 as "the US economy is on the verge of collapse" never really happened and that all our economic problems were actually caused by the man who inherited the mess and who has been trying to solve what is almost insolvable.
I am very disappointed with the foreign policy of the Obama Administration, which in many ways reflects that of the Bush Administration albeit for a greater focus on terrorism, but I support his domestic agenda and believe he and our congressional Democrats deserve the support of the American people. Not only have they demonstrated vision and integrity, they have also shown tremendous courage in undertaking issues that most politicians would have avoided knowing our pre-conceived ideas and tendency to believe whatever the most vociferous opportunist has to say.
Don't be surprised, however, if those whose vision and solutions are limited to saying no and supporting the status quo make significant inroads in November. After all, Bush was selected in 2000 not because of his intellect, educational and professional achievements, or becuase he had a vision of what was best for us, but because he was a guy many thought they would enjoy having a few beers with...
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Re #126
I DO apologize, David. It was unintentional. Plain haste.
[I have a friend called Darrell, if it's any excuse].
As for R....
When Ronald Reagan was brough into operation room at GW Hospital (after having been shot) he turned to the doctors and said:
"Please, tell me you're all Republicans!"
To which the chief surgeon replied:
"Mr. President, today we all are Republicans"
Since I haven't been shot today (yet) I can't dream that your "R" stands
for.. :-)
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"I agree with the idea of term limits with a 2 term max like the presidency.this would stop a lot of the bullcrap we put up with now from the old boy network."
I support term limits, although I am not sure 2 terms would be wise. Having experienced Representatives and Senators is essential to drafting good legislation, but something should be done to ensure senile politicians don't remain in Congress simply because people feel sorry for them or because they bring home the bacon.
The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the ability of lobbyists to influence policy in the USA. I would ban all lobbysts from setting foot in Congress or calling elected officials, and I would reprimand or fire any politician responsible for accepting compensation in exchange for policy that benefits special interests or individuals.
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130. hubertgrove wrote:
"Does anyone else remember when BBC journalists could read and write prose - and a subliterate verbalisation as lazy as this would be struck out by a sub-editor? Sure it wasn't that long ago?"
Hubert - this is a blog, not an edited news story.
Have you got any comment on the topic?
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130. At 12:43pm on 07 Jan 2010, hubertgrove wrote:
"I just don't buy the line..."
Does anyone else remember when BBC journalists could read and write prose - and a subliterate verbalisation as lazy as this would be struck out by a sub-editor? Sure it wasn't that long ago?
But it's a blog . . . They're usually, I imagine, written a bit hurriedly in the middle of many other things, and sub-editor free. (Probably to their authors' relief; I know the traumas arguments with the subs can cause, I've been on both sides of the battlefield, I mean fence. . .
Anyway, a blog is informal, like a conversation, it's a perfectly OK colloquialism, and I wouldn't have red-pencilled it. We use blue for other things in the UK as a rule, btw.)
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Squirrel
"(Sorry, this really must stop . . . .we're all going to get thrown out. Or reefered I think is the word they use now. )"
"reefered" ???? - so that's what happened to "HappyJackFluffyCheese"
Wow, man!
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133 & 135
SaintD - great posts.
Thanks for bringing us back on topic.....
....Squirrel, Kitty .... playtime's over!
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We should not allow anyone to serve more than 8-10 years otherwise they act like pompous ass. Any time is given is good and is always appreciated.
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Re #124
NRA MEMBERS can contribute to individual congressional/senatorial election campaigns,of course within federally set limits.
As for their political affiliations...
No, not all are Republicans, by any means.
Many are Independent, quite a few - Libertarians.
Many care about issues and effectiveness, not ideologies.
Quite a few Democrats got their (tangible) support in the past.
[obviously they were the "wrong kind" of Democrats:
those supporting 2nd Amendment and "peace through strength"]
However, and it may come as a shock to you and many others,
NRA is not the most influential lobby in the U.S.
[Neither, incidentally, is AIPAC.] Not even close.
The most influential lobby in the States, by far, is AARP - American Association of Retired Persons.
It's members take interest in political issues, vote, donate both money and time and, since many of them have significant expertise in governmental affairs (being former government employees, managers,
NASA and DARPA scientists etc.) and are not ignorant of national security matters (many being former military men, intelligence officers, etc.)- advise to those candidates who're smart enough to take advantage of their knowledge and experience.
And don't just take my word for it. Check all pertinent research data. :)
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135. At 1:00pm on 07 Jan 2010, SaintDominick wrote:
"I agree with the idea of term limits with a 2 term max like the presidency.this would stop a lot of the bullcrap we put up with now from the old boy network."
I support term limits, although I am not sure 2 terms would be wise.
I've never understood this 'term limit' thing. After all, you have 'term limits' if people wanted to apply them; they're called four-yearly elections.
It seems to me that the two parties might do better to 'deselect' their 'bad' candidates, as the parties in Britain now sometimes do. (And yes, I know that we still have 'safe seats' in which people can still moulder away their elected lives, but fewer and fewer who are allowed to.) But I suspect the sticking point in the US is really money: I suppose that if 'your' man can be guaranteed to raise the cash to get elected, he could be the most pompous, senile or lazy member in the country, and no-one would dare put up a more lively alternative that might not.
I've been reading off and on about the assembly in Albany; how (or rather 'why') on earth did those people keep getting re-elected? And how do you stop it, if the electorate itself doesn't? I don't really see how term limits would help, if there were to be an apparently inexhaustible supply of the same types and an equally substantial amount of money to back them.
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I've watched politicians for a lifetime and you can't get them to give up their thrones of power! Look at corrupt politicians like Ted Kennedy, he was even trying to manipulate politics from beyond the grave!
Dodd has skeleton's hanging out of his closet...another election and they will be dancing around the room! His chairman's seat has become a hot-seat and so wisely he is running away from the scene of his crimes! Same for these other Democrats. Good riddance.
Jobs? No one is going to let Obama spend another trillion dollars on economic "stimulus" and fund more ridiculous projects. He is creating jobs building gigantic LEEDS PLATINUM GRADE office complexes to house the enormous new bureaucracies he has created! He is creating more Homeland Security positions, sending more "civilians" to AFPAK. But interrupting his golf game to announce that he will "not rest" until all Americans who want to work is just another empty promise among thousands.
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Don't be surprised, however, if those whose vision and solutions are limited to saying no and supporting the status quo make significant inroads in November. After all, Bush was selected in 2000 not because of his intellect, educational and professional achievements, or becuase he had a vision of what was best for us, but because he was a guy many thought they would enjoy having a few beers with...
________________--
And Obama was selected on his hope and change platform. Not because of any demonstrated abilities or resume. Don't be surprised that the corruption and partsianship bites the Democrats back.
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Squirrelist asks: What was the old Russian joke?
'There's no news in Pravda, and no truth in Izvestia'?
It's not that funny in English, unless one knows that Pravda means Truth (like in the Ministry of Truth), and Izvestia - News.
In the Russian original:
W Pravdie nyet izviestii, no w Izvestiach nyet pravdy.
Obviously editors-in chief of both papers (and their minders) feared the biblical prediction:
"AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE".
P.S. Have no fear, meerkat's here! :)
And on a more serious note: I don't think meerkats constitute a threat to squirrels. First, meerkats are friendly and sociable animals.
2nd, As David would explain, no doubt - "never the twain shall meet".
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Ref 142, Squirrelist
"It seems to me that the two parties might do better to 'deselect' their 'bad' candidates, as the parties in Britain now sometimes do."
Although it has been tried, and the GOP struggles between the most radical wing of the party and moderates could be construed as "de-selection" of undesirable politicians, I don't think party purges are the way to go. As you suggested, voters have the ultimate say on this issue, but there is no doubt that effective campaigns and bringing home the bacon often trump national interests.
Ref 144, Magic
"Not because of any demonstrated abilities or resume. Don't be surprised that the corruption and partsianship bites the Democrats back."
President Obama's resounding victory was influenced by the disgust that most Americans felt for the policies and actions of the Bush Administration, because many believed McCain's policies, such as they were, were an extension of Bush's, because a lot of people wanted change and were impressed with the education, obvious intelligence, and vision of Barack Obama. Whether or not that translates to endorsement of his centrist policies is a different matter.
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#132 "Are you assigning Islam a place in political spectrum or just extremist Islamists?
If its extremists, I'd have put them on the right side of middle of the roaders like Reagan and the Bushes."
It that why appeasing weekly/leftie peanut farmer called Jimmy Carter (remember Jimmy?) allowed Islamic extremists to topple Shah Reza Pahlavi
and establish the terrorist abomination run by religious fanatics trying to lay their paws on some nukes by hook and by crook?
And through his ineptness let our citizens rot for 444 days in those Islamic extremists' jails?
And why it took Ronald Reagan less than 24 hours to have those hostages released?
And is that why since 9/11, after "W" introduced necessary security measure we haven't had even one major terrorist attack on our soil?
[and, believe me, not because jihaddists suddenly stopped trying]
Or on a U..S. passenger plane?
Admittedly, Mr. Obama's White House is much friendlier and much more open: reportedly, practically any uninvited guest can simply walk in (or drive in) there now and join the party.
Hail to the Chief! Our Commander-in-Chief, that is.
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142. Squirrelist "I've never understood this 'term limit' thing. After all, you have 'term limits' if people wanted to apply them; they're called four-yearly elections."
Well, the goal (according to a cynic) is to get *different* corrupt fools into office. That is supposed to stir up the waters a bit and make there be a slight break in how much corruption takes place because each new elected official will have to figure out the system before they really get into it.
In practice, I can't say that it helps all that much. Pennsylvania Governor Rendell spent nearly $75,000 on food for the governor's mansion in his first 11 months of office. That was before inflation hit as bad as it has in recent years, but even now that could buy an enormous amount of food. In that same period of time he also got caught many times traveling at speeds greater than 100 mph (167 kilometers per hour). He didn't get tickets any of those times, simply because he's the governor. His excuse was that he wasn't aware how fast the state trooper who drives him was driving. In other words, he was either lying or very stupid. He has made an utter mess of the state budget. He's not very popular in the red area of a blue state where I live.
But many voters have short memories and he got a second term. And if it weren't for term limits he might get a third term. Personally, though, I am getting kind of excited at the thought of having a different corrupt fool to complain about. I wish a fiscal conservative (of an party) could get in, but the number of ardent Democrats in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia makes that unlikely.
Obviously, term limits aren't the real problem. Term limits are kind of equivalent to a (bad, imaginary) farmer who sees that algae is growing in his stock's water, so he decides to get a stick and stir up the algae to make the problem not look so bad. Is it any wonder that the stock are sick?
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" 108. At 10:44am on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
I used to eat so called socialists for breakfast for many years, so I think I know how they taste.
[Threw up each time after the meal, but hey, somebody had to do it,"
so you do try swallow.
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83 85.
problem is "fair and balanced" is the credo here as well.
so they will carry on trying to make out the GOP are a successful party.
Kscurmudgeon. goood luck, with all sincerity on finding the party of your dreams.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qoymGCDYzU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t74BiBmBizk&feature=related
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Meerkat – Regarding Reagan’s success, possibly because the Algiers Accord was signed in the last day of the Carter Presidency? The peanut farmer (by the way why is what Carter grew such a big thing? Washington grew hemp) not the cowboy got the hostages freed, the cowboy just got the credit.
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148 TC with another thoughtful post. Oh were that the norm from so many.
But seeing as someone mentions this
"And why it took Ronald Reagan less than 24 hours to have those hostages released?"
I'll have to suggest that it has been suggested more than a few times that was because Regan had a deal to keep them in there until he had secured the elections.
So it is NO surprise.
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on that coincidental release
"http://www.aiipowmia.com/other/iranhstgcrss80.html"
http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0120.html
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Ref 148 trueconservative-
"Obviously, term limits aren't the real problem."
As squirrelist has pointed out; term limits already exist. It is up to the electorate. We can expect the usual 40-45% registered voter turn-out for the bi-elections. They will be the ones responsible for the quality of representation in Congress; leaving many of the 55-60% of the inactive registered voters to whine and moan about the choices someone else made for them.
The ratios become even more absurd when the numbers of fully eligible, yet unregistered, voters are added to the count. The number of active, eligible voters in a bi-election would be more in the 30-40% range.
We can only wonder how well-informed these 40-45%, or 30-40% (if one prefers) of the active electorate are when they go to the polls and cast their vote.
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squirrelist (#142) "I've never understood this 'term limit' thing."
I don't understand the appeal of term limits to Americans, either. Is there any other profession for which experience is considered a disqualification? If your mechanic was familiar with your automobile and took good care of it, would you ditch him after a few years and take a chance on someone else?
Is there any European nation which imposes term limits?
At least term limits cannot be applied to members of the US Congress, because Congress has the constitutional authority over the election of its members.
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I say, safer than using that money to combine Shia and Sunni.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
And i ask, why on earth did you divide shia annd sunnis in the first place? They were combined in Saddam's iraq....And I will generously point out to you, that I talked about including when i suggest joining of north and south dakotas, not segregation...
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"The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the ability of lobbyists to influence policy in the USA. I would ban all lobbysts from setting foot in Congress or calling elected officials, and I would reprimand or fire any politician responsible for accepting compensation in exchange for policy that benefits special interests or individuals." (from SaintDominick at #135)
This policy is not acceptable in a free society. Following is the full text of the First Amendment to the US Constitution:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
A lobbyist is nothing more than a spokesman for an assembly of peacebly assembled people, who is petitioning the government on their behalf. People do not forfeit their right to petition when they exercize their right to organize into groups.
Bribery is, however, a corrupt practice, and is illegal in the US:
US Code Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 11, Section 201
This is sufficient, in my opinion.
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President Obama's resounding victory was influenced by the disgust that most Americans felt for the policies and actions of the Bush Administration, because many believed McCain's policies, such as they were, were an extension of Bush's, because a lot of people wanted change and were impressed with the education, obvious intelligence, and vision of Barack Obama. Whether or not that translates to endorsement of his centrist policies is a different matter.
________________-
Obama's intelligence like his supposed vision is a farce. He has lived an ivory tower existance and is a product of the corrupt chicago politcal machine.
George Bush has been roven to be a far wiser and capable leader which is not a compliment to Bush just shows the total inadequacy of Obama.
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rare moment when so many here agree.
term limits are a waste.
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meow
"[and, believe me, not because jihaddists suddenly stopped trying]"
Could that be a way of arguing that by attacking Iraq we managed to get those that wanted to attack the USA to do it on someone else's soil?
It could be argued that we gave them a more convenient battle field, the only people who missed out on this little deal being the people of Iraq.
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Kirin same name . How do you do it?
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I suspect most US citizens don't fluctuate between conservative and liberal values. Instead, most of us are in the middle somewhere, and fluctuate between voting for conservative and liberal politicians as the only way to balance it out. On the rare occasion that one of the two primary parties is clever enough to stay somewhat moderate *after* the election, they are more likely to stay in power, but what usually happens is they feel a sudden need to abandon most of the people who voted for them in order to please their vocal party extremists.
That is, I would imagine, why there are so many smaller political parties -- groups trying to field a middle-of-the-road approach. Unfortunately, they tend to take some cause to heart and become extremists in some fashion themselves, thus never winning a lot of popular support.
So, how do you drum up popular support and become fashionable politically without having any extremist views? Apparently, nobody here (in the US) has figured it out yet.
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George Bush has been roven to be a far wiser and capable leader which is not a compliment to Bush just shows the total inadequacy of Obama.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bush is far wiser because he started wars and started the whole homeland security and patriotic acts mumbo jumbo, obama is inadequte because he is fighting those two wars, extended hidden wars in pakistan and yemen, enforced segregated laws which bush's people wanted to but coudnt...Its time that obama you stopped listening to obama's rants and pay attention to what he is doing, you will notice the discripency between what he rants about and what he actually does, and you will with no problem see that bush and obama are the same coin...
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157"or abridging the freedom of speech"
heard of the FCC.
here's a British version of the debate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLeqhs2Ewd8
http://www.ticketnews.com/New-Model-Army-Sacks-Tour0090607
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Liberal Lefties/conspiracy theorists are clearly scared.
And that's why they foam at their mouths.
[Pavlovian reaction]
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Ref 155 GH1618-
"Is there any other profession for which experience is considered a disqualification? If your mechanic was familiar with your automobile and took good care of it, would you ditch him after a few years and take a chance on someone else?"
Exactly why term limits are not the answer to correct the problems created by an apathetic, ill-informed electorate. There are many, long-serving Congressional representative who are doing a very good job representing their constituents. Why force them out of their position to replace them with an inexperienced person that may not be qualified to handle the job? Only an active, well-informed electorate will insure that qualified representatives serve their interests, as well as the interests of the Nation.
The debate whether the U.S. Congress, or the individual States have the authority to set term limits is a long, on-going controversy. The last round before the U.S. Supreme Court narrowly went to the U.S. Congress being the body to enact such limits by a 4-5 decision in the 1994 case U.S.Term Limits v. Thornton.
Justice Clarence Thomas dissented, stating that U.S.Term Limits v. Thornton ignored the Tenth Amendment. That there is no explicit denial of such power to the states in the Constitution to limit U.S. Congressional terms, the right to do so "is reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
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"That is, I would imagine, why there are so many smaller political parties -- groups trying to field a middle-of-the-road approach. Unfortunately, they tend to take some cause to heart and become extremists in some fashion themselves, thus never winning a lot of popular support."
There are many political parties in the US other than the Democratic and Republican, but I can't think of one offhand which I would describe as "middle-of-the-road." They are all fringe from the outset, which is why they are so small.
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157 gary
"Bribery is, however, a corrupt practice, and is illegal in the US:
This is sufficient, in my opinion."
In law maybe .... but is the law applied at the highest level.
Are you seriously telling us that all those lobby "contributions" are not simply purchasing votes by a small, wealthy and well-organised section of the wider society.
I've said it before. This is the big problem I have with the US system. Individual politicians can hold out their vote to auction ... either to corporate interests or to gather additional "pork" from congressional funds.
If lobby donations were made to political parties then they could be better controlled and reviewed to ensure that certain groups were not buying undue influence .... in the UK in the early days of New Labour there was a ban on tobacco advertising in sport, with a mysterious exclusion to formula one motor racing. It didn't take a genius to find the £5million pounds donated by Bernie Ecclestone (head of F1) to the Labour party. Upshot was the exclusion on F1 got revoked, and Bernie got his millions back.
That's not to say there's no corruption - it's just a little easier to control.
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Interesting how the right wants to blame Obama for everything..forgetting who created the mess. Dems that are leaving are tied to the banking issues, would be nice if the Republicans recognized who in their party facilitated the financial crisis and what members of either party blocked legislation that would have prevented this but that would require having principal and not just party loyalty. They all failed to protect the public from the bankers and investors and not one thing has changed and not one new piece of legislation has been introduced to make it different. The system instruments are in place that cause the problem so don't be surprised when it happens again. When the Republicans and Chamber of Commerce sold Congress on giving China MFN status they were selling out US jobs....you can trace unemployment back to that decision. Banks don't have national interest and business always follows cheap labor. The healthcare legislation became garbage when the Republicans insisted on changes that they would never support and the result being that the Dems lost support of their own voters by dancing to the tune of the insurance industry along with the Republicans. The prostitutes of both parties sold the American people out for the greed of insurance companies. A costly system with meager results and poor national standing, you would think the US could do better.
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Powermeerkat – Sorry you have lost me again, which liberal lefties are frothing at the mouth and why the apparent link with conspiracy theorists? Conspiracy theories are as likely to from the conservative right as the liberal left, just look at the Hollywood liberal conspiracy some conservative posters seem to believe is happening. Also all those militiaman style survivalists who live up in the woods muttering about government controls are as about liberal and left as our beloved Marcus.
While I am a liberal lefty the only time I froth at the mouth is when I over do the tooth paste when I am brushing my teeth!
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@135 (StD): "The biggest problem, in my opinion, is the ability of lobbyists to influence policy in the USA. I would ban all lobbysts from setting foot in Congress or calling elected officials, and I would reprimand or fire any politician responsible for accepting compensation in exchange for policy that benefits special interests or individuals."
I think you are incorrect this time, StD, for two reasons:
a. Lobbyists have a right to speak, just as you and I do, under the First Amendment. This has already been pointed out. It's also the reason why limits on political speech are unwarranted.
b. The real problem is the way Congressional campaigns get funded. Investments in Congressional campaigns are undertaken more than anything else to buy Congressional influence, because the Congress controls the budget, the tax code, and the law. Further, since Congressfolks can sit year after year (while a President must be gone in 8 years max), investing in a Congressman has a higher potential ROI than investing in a President.
If you want to fix Congress, you have to do several things:
a. Pass a real Balanced Budget Amendment that forces the Congress to stop phony accounting practices, declaring this and that "off-budget", failing to deal in any way with debt retirement, failing to fund legislation that's passed (watch this one operate on any type of immigration "reform"), failing to fund maintenance of capital investments, and a list of other things. That amendment will be rather long, but this is one time that the Congress cannot be allowed any freedom to craft legislation to support the amendment. They don't need their hands tied on this score; they need their hands and feet both shackled in case-hardened steel with no keys for the locks.
b. Pass a similar amendment to prevent the Congress from playing games with the tax code.
c. Pass a similar amendment to prevent gerrymandering of Congressional districts.
d. Require public funding of campaigns combined with a reduction in the election cycle to 12 weeks or less. If a candidate can't get his message out in 3 months, he has no business in government.
e. Raise the salary of Congressfolks to be commensurate with the average salary of business leaders, sports figures, and entertainment figures. It's nuts for the 535 people running this country to make not a whole lot more than the average manager, and far less than the entertainer I might watch on the TV, and expect them to fund campaigns costing millions of dollars.
f. Task the Judiciary through amendment to investigate malfeasance in Congress. Congress cannot repeat cannot investigate itself; they have amply demonstrated over 200+ years that they will not do the job.
g. Put Congressional staffers under Civil Service Law with regard to personal conduct to ensure that they don't remain an additional threat vector for misbehavior.
h. Ensure through a suitable mechanism (this could be public law, as long as someone else does the investigating) that if a Congressperson takes a dime from anyone at any time, they are going to jail for no less than 20 years at hard labor. No cleaning out the day room at Maxwell AFB or similar any longer; they can celebrate the joys of busting rocks and picking up trash on the road.
Of course, none of this will ever happen, but it's nice to dream.
Arclight
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Hush! Our president and Commmander-in-Chief is going to speak soon.
And he'll explain everything away.
Including lax security in his own White House.
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166 publius
"Only an active, well-informed electorate will insure that qualified representatives serve their interests, as well as the interests of the Nation."
Well, it's an idea I suppose. I'll ask around and if I find one I'll let you know ;-)))
But seriously, you have hit the nail on the head. Trouble is the electorate is neither active, nor well-informed.
The first can be dealt with by compulsory voting (with a none of the above box) coupled with automatic voter registration at majority as in most other western countries. If you wish the benefits of a democracy, you have an obligation to participate
The second is more difficult. Leaving the actual education system aside for now .... I would advocate a published policy manifesto for politicians and a generic party manifesto to highlight the main ideas of each party.
This would cut out all the time-wasting speculation and allow people to actually see what politicians think / believe.
(Of course the politicians will hate the idea as they could be held to account .... heaven forbid!)
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PubliusDetroit (#166), thanks for that USSC reference. I didn't remember that it was so closely decided. I expect that it will hold up, however. Questions put before the Supreme Court are generally revisited only when there is some new aspect to be considered.
Tenth amendment arguments rarely succeed.
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May be the President should have a search for tea party folk working in the Gov. departments.
a HUNT for republicans and unloyal independents.
May be he should act like the last administration and sack all the right voting folk.
GW got rid of lefties. look at alberto gonzales 's job.
A witch hunt for goppers that infect the system, undermining it.
Because that was How the republicans acted for 8 years.
I wonder how many left leaners are left in the state department after the bush era.
Purge time.
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Liberal Lefties/conspiracy theorists are clearly scared.
And that's why they foam at their mouths.
[Pavlovian reaction]
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People are going to react here, but I think its important to remind ourselves of certain things ben laden said...and I quote...
"Before I begin, I say to you that security is an indispensable pillar of human life and that free men do not forfeit their security, contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.....If so, then let him explain to us why we don't strike for example - Sweden?"
"No one except a dumb thief plays with the security of others and then makes himself believe he will be secure. Whereas thinking people, when disaster strikes, make it their priority to look for its causes, in order to prevent it happening again.
But I am amazed at you. Even though we are in the fourth year after the events of September 11th, Bush is still engaged in distortion, deception and hiding from you the real causes. And thus, the reasons are still there for a repeat of what occurred."
As for it's results, they have been, by the grace of Allah, positive and enormous, and have, by all standards, exceeded all expectations. This is due to many factors, chief among them, that we have found it difficult to deal with the Bush administration in light of the resemblance it bears to the regimes in our countries, half of which are ruled by the military and the other half which are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents.
Our experience with them is lengthy, and both types are replete with those who are characterised by pride, arrogance, greed and misappropriation of wealth. This resemblance began after the visits of Bush Sr. to the region"
.
That being said, those who say that al-Qaida has won against the administration in the White House or that the administration has lost in this war have not been precise, because when one scrutinises the results, one cannot say that al-Qaida is the sole factor in achieving those spectacular gains.
Rather, the policy of the White House that demands the opening of war fronts to keep busy their various corporations - whether they be working in the field of arms or oil or reconstruction - has helped al-Qaida to achieve these enormous results.
It never occurred to us that the commander-in-chief of the American armed forces would abandon 50,000 of his citizens in the twin towers to face those great horrors alone, the time when they most needed him.
In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No.
Your security is in your own hands. And every state that doesn't play with our security has automatically guaranteed its own security.
neither America nor the people who live in it will dream of security before we live it in Palestine, and not before all the infidel armies leave the land of Muhammad, peace be upon him.
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RomeStu (#168) "Are you seriously telling us that all those lobby "contributions" are not simply purchasing votes by a small, wealthy and well-organised section of the wider society."
No, I am not. In the words of the late William F. Buckley, if that were what I meant, "I would find the words to say it."
If you insist that I expand on my remarks, I will do it thus: A general condemnation of lobbyists makes no more sense than a general condemnation of corporations, which is something I have written about a few times in this forum. It is specific corrupt practices which are the problem, not lobbying per se.
Sometimes public officials do get in trouble for corruption. A recent example is former Senator Stevens of Alaska, who was a Republican prosecuted during a Republican administration. (Although convicted, the conviction was voided and the charges dropped because of misconduct by the prosecutors.)
If you wish to make a charge of public corruption, which is serious, you ought to be specific rather than make a blanket condemnation of a legitimate practice. Otherwise, it is merely an uninformed cheap shot.
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And now I wait in suspense if my post 176 sees the daylight...
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Re Jimmy Carter successes (other than Islamic Revolution in Iran):
Allowing Soviet military intervention (by Cuban proxies) in Angola go unchallenged.
Which emboldened Moscow to do the same in Mozambique.
Seeing no reaction to the latter from the U.S. president, Kremlin decided that it could invade Afghanistan with impunity and assassinate its leader. Which it did. And much more.
Jimmy Carter's reaction? Boycotting Moscow Olympics. :-))))))))))))))))))
It took "trigger happy cowboy" (Ronald Reagan) several years and plenty of dough to rectify his appeasing predecessor's blunders.
But when he finally finished Empire of Evil was finished too.
Now, would somebody like to discuss Bill Clinton's successes vis a vis North Korea for a change? :-)
P.S. David, how are you coping with effects of global warming in U.K.?
I hear that the current heat wave is going to last a little longer still?
[I can't even imagine how it is in Spain, right now :-( ]
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"In law maybe .... but is the law applied at the highest level?" (from RomeStu #168)
Look up Spiro Agnew, a former Vice President of the United States. That's pretty high.
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Ref 173 RomeStu-
"The first can be dealt with by compulsory voting (with a none of the above box) coupled with automatic voter registration at majority as in most other western countries."
Though I do appreciate your suggestions; there is no quick fix. Your second suggestion should be the first step. Education plays the larger role in accomplishing this. Unfortunately we have to rely upon our terribly antiquated educational system to provide the foundation. We are still using 19th century teaching methods to educate people to function in the 21st century. It is not working. Slates have been replaced by computers.
Adding more ill-informed electorate to the roles through compulsory voting laws will only compound the problem of electing qualified representation.
Of course the real solution begins in the home. Parents are the ones responsible for raising their children to be intelligent people able to make reasonable decisions; and to be active, responsible citizens.
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I am super happy that Dodd is bowing out, as he is extremely corrupted, even more than Blago.
As for the Democratic party, they are hanging in there, but people are angry that the Obama Admin. is spending, spending, spending so much while our states are in debt.
People are also angry that the Obama Admin. and Congress will not have open sessions on health care and refuse to let Repubs be involved. That is why there are so many people who are against the health care bill...because we don't know what's in it since it's all being done in secret deals behind closed doors.
Illinoisans are angry that we will have to be stuck with the Guan. terrorists and that we did not have a say in it. There was a public hearing a few days before Christmas with thousands of residents against bringing the world's most dangerous people here, but Quinn told us that it was already decided and that the people in our state do not have a choice. The Democratic party is no longer democratic.
So those are my biggest complaints about Obama and the Dems: spending too much and also not giving us a choice in health care or in the detainees.
Bringing the detainees to Illinois is unforgivable in my eyes.
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Re #175 "I wonder how many left leaners are left in the state department after the bush era."
One Hillary R-C is enough to make sure that SD has no rightist leanings.
Despite the fact that to many Obama's supporters she was almost a right winger. :-)
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Lucy Illinois
" I believe that the Christmas flight surviving was a miracle and an act of God. The terrorists may have Allah, but we have God on our side. God Bless America and her Allies."
ON WARDS CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS MARCHING AS TO WAR
WITH THE CROSS OF JESUS , GOING ON BEFORE.
SEE THE HOLY MIGHTY STUFF
SEE THE BANTER FLOORED
ONWARD INTO BATTLE WITH yER SCREAMING DOUBLE SWORDS
Maybe the dems just know that by fighting they are creating more racists.
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177 Gary - I'm not attacking you, I am interested in your comments, and your knowledge....
You write
"A general condemnation of lobbyists makes no more sense than a general condemnation of corporations, which is something I have written about a few times in this forum. It is specific corrupt practices which are the problem, not lobbying per se."
With this I agree - but the system seems to have a rotten core. If lobbying were simply done with ideas and arguments, and not campaign donations then I would have no problems.
Yes, the odd prosecution has happened, but the power these groups wield is often disproportionate to the people they represent.
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Re #176
I'm glad to see that somebody finally started to quote extensively Sheik
Osama bin Laden's words of wisdom.
And now, could we also get some undistorted, uncensored quotes from his revered deputy, dr Ayman Zawahiri, please?
So that we could be enlightened and made up for our wrongs?
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Not happy with just offending the already established religions of the world some of the american people did take it upon themselves to create a new religion to hate.
There was a slight problem.
The messiah of the religion they wanted to create in order to hate was not recognised as the messiah by the followers. They just thought him an ordinary man with some real talent.
Never let truth get in the way though.
So they pronounced him the , messiah of a religion that did not exist and set forth attacking Him the Messiah because he was the head of a "cult".
A cult they created.
And the laugh is they cannot see the resemblance that they create.;)
Now it seems some Christians are going to complain that they lost the right to call it the "Christmas bombing "and and will be known as the " pants bomber" as all the school kids were calling him on day one.
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colonelartist wrote:
And now I wait in suspense if my post 176 sees the daylight...
Yes it has. And it will remain there for all infidels to see and read.
Insh Allah.
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Jimmy Carter successes (other than Islamic Revolution in Iran):
Allowing Soviet military intervention (by Cuban proxies) in Angola go unchallenged.
Which emboldened Moscow to do the same in Mozambique.
Seeing no reaction to the latter from the U.S. president, Kremlin decided that it could invade Afghanistan with impunity and assassinate its leader. Which it did. And much more.
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To jimmy carter goes the credit, and he takes it too, the laying of trap for soviet to invade afghanistan...His security advisor proudly acknowdlged that jimmy carter tricked soviets into sending their troops to afghanistan...because, lo and behold, the islamists blowing the schools back then, had moved from inside the afghanistan to the border area of pakistan, the same area where now obama sends his drones on almost daily bases..The islamists opened their madrassas cia finaced them, the islamists shifted their herion producing factories across the border to pakistan, and from there, they used to launch attack all backed by cia...All started by jimmy carter...whose aid about 300 million dollarss was called, and I quote "peanuts" by the dictator late gen zia ull haq who was promptly elvated from dictator who overthrew a democratic government, as the champion freedom fighter by the west..
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"Obama Admin. is spending, spending, spending so much while our states are in debt."
Unlike the american people.
Could your states not be in debt because for YEARS, they thought "we can lower taxes for the super rich and let the rich live more comfortably"
That played NO part in bankrupt states now did it.
Here in Oregon.
MY GOD! YES, OREGON.
we have a ballot measure on the books.
one to increase the corporate tax and tax on households with roughly single income of 250 or somewhere near 1/2 mil . and there are some ads saying "don't vote for it" "kills JOBS"
well we would have a lot of jobs paid for if we had collected that tax for the last 10 years.
It's called saving up.
There is a basis for blaming the short minded attitudes of the past a little more than intervention in a crisis that arose from those past failings.
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183 That is the best argument for her I have heard yet, So now I am glad Obama picked her.
Never thought I could find a genuine reason to thank you.
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PS meow I see you have no comment as to the reason Ronnie may have found such a fortunate coincidence during his early days.
Lucy"Illinoisans are angry that we will have to be stuck with the Guan. terrorists "
Please
"Yucca Mountain is part of the Nellis Military Operations Area in Nevada. It neighbors the Nellis Air Force Base bombing range and the Nevada Test and Training Range. The Nevada Test and Training Range was home to 904 atomic bomb tests between 1945 and 1992.[1]"wiki
"The Yucca Mountain Development Act was passed by the Congress and signed by the President in 2002 making development of Yucca Mountain the Law. Until Congress amends or changes the law, the Secretary of Energy is charged with pursuing development of Yucca Mountain as the Nation's geologic repository.[2]"
wiki
and heres a quote from wiki on Umatilla
"The Umatilla Chemical Depot opened in 1941, to prepare for World War II. "(provocative as it is;)
"The depot took on its chemical weapons storage mission in 1962 and stored 12% of the nation's stockpile. From 1990 to 1994 the facility reorganized in preparation for eventual closure, shipping all conventional ammunition and supplies to other installations. Today, the chemical weapons are the only items still stored at the depot."
Note both the sites names. Could one assume those First Nationer's were real busy and dangerous people?
And you want to complain about terrorists in a jail?
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And now, could we also get some undistorted, uncensored quotes from his revered deputy, dr Ayman Zawahiri, please?
So that we could be enlightened and made up for our wrongs?
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Everyone comes in pair, bush and blair, bush and cheney, and then bush and colin powell...Got the point? its not only americans who play the hawk and dove games, their enemies do that all the time, its your eyes and minds which do not see the hawks and doves in your enemies...Just like your enemy doesnt see that difference among your hawks and doves...or bush or obama...
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In #182 LucyIllinois wrote:
Illinoisans are angry that we will have to be stuck with the Guan. terrorists and that we did not have a say in it.
Why are you angry? Those are innocent people persecuted for being at the wrong time in the wrong place with wrong types of weapons and explosives.
Besides, nobody else wants to take those wronged, harmless creatures.
Not even our British cousins.
[perhaps they have too many of their own to take care of?]
So be a sport and take them all.
And come November follow mayor Daley sr.'s advice:
"Vote early, vote often!"
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I'm glad to see that somebody finally started to quote extensively Sheik
Osama bin Laden's words of wisdom.
And now, could we also get some undistorted, uncensored quotes from his revered deputy, dr Ayman Zawahiri, please?
So that we could be enlightened and made up for our wrongs?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Was your post meant to be hawkish or dovish?
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gary
"If you insist that I expand on my remarks, I will do it thus: A general condemnation of lobbyists makes no more sense than a general condemnation of corporations, which is something I have written about a few times in this forum. "
good so lets see a little more reaction to the condemnation by some that all terrorists are muslims.
That is one you don't express as loudly.
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RomeStu (#185) "I'm not attacking you ... "
I understand, and did not mean to give you the impression that I thought you had.
" ... but the system seems to have a rotten core."
I do not agree with this statement. It is a sweeping generalization which is not fairly applied to all. Specific cases are fair game. For example, discuss the influence of the health care industry on the health care bill. Show me which organizations are contributing to which members of Congress, and tell me which members have been improperly influenced.
Much lobbying is lower profile and perfectly legitimate. I can give a specific example. I recently wrote to one my senators (Feinstein) about the desire of the Dept. of Interior to evict the Drakes Bay Oyster Farm (a small business and a corporation) in order to create a wilderness area. Senator Feinstein responded, and I learned that she was already on the case and was well-informed on the subject. How do you suppose she became well-informed? Probably by receiving information from a representative of the Pacific Coast Shellfish Growers Association (i.e. a lobbyist) as well as from the proprietor of DBOF. There is nothing whatever wrong with associations such as this petitioning the government, through their elected representatives, for assistance.
Senator Feinstein is absolutely uncorruptable. She is independently wealthy, and she has been such a popular senator that the Republicans put up only token opposition to her reelection. She hardly campaigns at all. I am not in the least concerned that a lobbyist might ask for an appointment to discuss some special interest, because I believe that she would consider any information she received in that manner (or in any other) in the context of what she believed to be in the best interest of her state.
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The democrats seem to be scary cats. Even with a majority they were afraid of voting their philosophy. I believe, maybe incorrectly, that if they had stood strong and pushed the healthcare with a public option through, they might have shown their base and the middle independent voter that they have guts and will fight for what they believe. Instead of caving in to the tea partiers and the screamers, they should have fought back strong and Obama should have been out there on the forefront fighting for what we in the "left" thought were his belief in the public opiton. Instead, all he did was to pander to the right in the futile and naive hope that they would "like" him. Now they will go down with a whimper instead of a thunder or even possibly a win.
I for one have lost faith in the democratic party and Obama. He never really impressed me too much, his prior career seemed to have been two year jobs moving on the next big thing. I feared he might be an opportunist, now i believe he is one and will not support him in the next election, unless someone like Hitler shows up as a Republican candidate.
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183. powermeerkat:
I thought we'd agreed to suspend the jokes?
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Re #197
Senator Boxer is not poor, either.
Nor is Speaker Pelosi. Ted Kennedy was also uncorruptible.
[he even gave plenty of money to the needy and opressed, e.g., IRA]
Actually it's hard to find a poor advocate of the poor among idealistic Democrats in the U.S. Congress.
As one observer of Washington political scene famously noticed:
"The came to Washington to do good. And they did well."
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Ref 200, powermeerkat
"The came to Washington to do good. And they did well."
This is very close to the truth when it comes to the Senate, but it is not limited to Democrats and it is not the case in the House where many members struggle to make ends meet in the DC area.
The Bush's, those that can not even keep track of how many houses they own and others are not exactly middle class...
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I think I should run for some american elections...
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186. At 6:00pm on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"Re #176
I'm glad to see that somebody finally started to quote extensively Sheik
Osama bin Laden's words of wisdom."
Any infidel who can use Google can read them all (well, nearly 300 pages of them, anyway, not sure that's all of them) on www,fas.org [/irp/world/para/ubi-fbis.pdf]. No direct link, 'cos ones to pdf's aren't allowed.
Know that's off-topic, sorry. Just sayin'. Still cold here in, er, well, somewhere or other . . .
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I have read the comments about the lobby, and I still agree with St Dom. Yes, charities, Trade Unions, and other interest groups also use lobbyists to argue their cases to politicians; however corporations use the best lobbyists, and the PR firms to control debate in the media to the point where government is the will of the Corporate lobby and not the people. And the US is the land of Jefferson?!
Other groups in society have no such access to these resources. Politicians also can be promised a 'consultantancy' job at a corporation when they leave politics (in some cases they can already had been working for them, and/or own shares in them, before they entered politics). I don't know who in the US decided that corporations should have the same rights as an individual (some Judge with an economic interest no doubt) when they are clearly not and are an affront to Liberty. One has only to look at the history of the East India Company. If the lobby system is abused then get rid of it.
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Re#199
Unfortunately that was not a joke.
You haven't been here during the campaign for the presidential nomination of Democratic Party, so you don't know what Obama's supporters and promoters were saying about Hillary Rodham-Clinton. Publicly. On TV.
Do your own research.
It was simply ridiculous.
Take it from somebody who wouldn't vote for her.
P.S. Glad you're back. I was slightly concerned that you got stuck in the Chunnel.
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Any infidel who can use Google can read them all
------------------------------------------------------------------------
But the question is do the infidel read them or they just echo what their leaders believe what ben laden said...Infidels are extremely good at telling others to keep quiet unless, they have been to their places , or have heard their leaders or read their books, but in reality they do excatly what they tell others of not doing...Example, the interestedforgeiner who three four days ago generously replied to one of my posts about canada, with one single sentence "you dont know about canada"....as if he has been to all those places he frequently posts about...atleast i have been to canada, and am even dwelling on becoming a neo settler over there...
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Ronnie Raygun borrowed 400 billion from the Japanese to prop up the economy to insure his second term.....rasied social security taxes then created what he called a "consolidated budget" that emptied the social security trust fund. The heroes of the right are only heroes if you believe the myths and not the actions. What were once conservatives are now manipulators for greed. Don't forget the first Saving and Loan bailout under Bush I. Same scam as the last one only on a smaller scale, I think it only costs the taxpayers about 300
Billion. Look at reality, the congress is a cesspool of big business and banking interest with politicans throwing out nonsense like socialism. Government is an act of socialism, the military is an act of socialism, social security, energy monopolies, highways and even Homeland Security..and it is ironic that the very Republicans who bailed out the banks call a healthcare bill socialism..hypocrits playing to the ignorant.
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Obama should not have offered hilary the post of sec of state, and hilary shouldnt not have accepted it...Anyone even you and I would have done the same if not better job than what she is doing...or not doing..
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203.
I am sorry. I did not, of course, intend in any way to imply that non-infidels are not capable of using Google.
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205. At 7:45pm on 07 Jan 2010, powermeerkat wrote:
"P.S. Glad you're back. I was slightly concerned that you got stuck in the Chunnel."
No, I got stuck (searched) at the airport instead. Would probably have spent less time in the Chunnel . . . .
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Ref 182, LucyIllinois
"but people are angry that the Obama Admin. is spending, spending, spending so much while our states are in debt."
The TARP appropriations were requested and signed by President Bush, the FY09 budget that ended in September was signed by President Bush; what President Obama requested and signed was the stimulus package. I guess he could have gone along with what Sen. McCain and most GOP leaders suggested and simply let the market forces solve our economic woes, but considering that the market forces were - and are - in serious trouble that does not seem like a viable solution.
Until a Republican politician comes up with a comprehensive strategy to solve our economic problems and reduce unemployment, the best thing we could do is support President Obama's agenda and hope it succeeds because at the present time that's the only game in town...and it has nothing to do with exclusion. Yes, many states are having serious fiscal problems, but the ones to blame are the Governors and legislature in those states, not the Federal government.
"..will not have open sessions on health care and refuse to let Repubs be involved."
All members of Congress were invited to participate in the debate and crafting of the health care bill, but only three moderate Republicans accepted the invitation. Choosing to stay on the sidelines because of political considerations is the opposite of what our elected officials should do.
Yes, the Senate had to vote on Christmas eve because of all the delays and efforts to please conservative politicians and avoid a filibuster. My heart bleeds for those poor babies. The irony is that even after the public option and funding for abortion were removed, the right wing continues to say no. I can only imagine the size of the political donations from the insurance industry.
"secret deals behind closed doors."
You got the wrong gang, the ones that made secret deals behind closed doors and held unannounced votes in the middle of the night or weekends were the Republicans when they were majority. The Dems went as far as READING the entire bill in Chamber to those that seem to have difficulty reading, not surprisingly, most Republicans did not bother to sit and listen.
"Illinoisans are angry that we will have to be stuck with the Guan. terrorists and that we did not have a say in it."
Guantanamo, all the other US prisons overseas, and what has taken place at those nefarious locations make a mockery of our Constitution, our laws, international law and everything this country is supposed to represent.
Trying the handful of terrorist suspects does not exonarate our government or the American people from what has taken place, but it goes a long way in re-establishing the rule of law and our credibility.
The terrorist suspects being held at Guantanamo are not supermen and will not be able to bend iron bars, escape, and harm innocent Americans. They are no more dangerous than people like Moussaui (sp), the 9/11 co-conspirator already in jail in the USA and other prisoners sentenced for their involvement in terrorist plots. Don't forget that some states are begging to house those prisoners because of economic considerations...
Last, but not least, remember the following quote, widely attributed to one of our founding fathers"
"Those who would sacrifice essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety".
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#198 Joao Coelho wrote:
" I feared he [Obama] might be an opportunist, now i believe he is one and will not support him in the next election, unless someone like Hitler shows up as a Republican candidate."
Not very likely. Hitler was anti-business (although he took money from the rich), promoted uneducated peons, loved huge government programs, and, last but not least, was a staunch opponent of the right of citizens to bear arms.
[the first thing dictators or would be dictators always do is to disarm people they intend to subjugate. For obvious reason. :-)]
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...Anyone even you and I would have done the same if not better job than what she is doing...or not doing..
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And with lesser pay and perks and less cost...I for one had used video conferences instead of wasting money and envirnoment by taking trips here and there...
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Jack (aka Charlie) (#196) "good so lets see a little more reaction to the condemnation by some that all terrorists are muslims."
As a rule, I do not react to posts made by people whom I do not respect. But I will make an exception, as I do occasionally...
I don't recall that anyone has asserted that literally "all terrorists are muslims." If someone has, I am sure it was someone not worthy of being taken seriously, hence not worthy of refuting.
Of course there are non-Muslim terrorists: Ted Kaczynski, Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph, to name just three. However, the fact is that the western world, and especially the United States, is under attack by organized groups of many people, operating from several countries, who act under the banner of Islam. There is no similar conspiracy on the scale of these groups, presenting a similar threat. There are some rag-tag groups like Earth First and the abortion clinic bombers who, while certainly dangerous, are not in any way comparable to al Qaeda.
Any reasonable person knows that Muslim terrorists do not represent Islam, and that they have been condemned by Islamic leaders around the world, as well as by leaders of other faiths. Any reasonable person knows, as President Obama has stated, that our fight is with terrorist groups, not with Islam. The point is not worth debating, because only unreasonable people take the opposite view.
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Ref 182 LucyIllinois-
"Bringing the detainees to Illinois is unforgivable in my eyes."
With regard to the use of the Thomson Correctional Facility as a place for incarcerating the Guantanamo detainees; seems that Illinois elected officials, Illinois Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability , and the people of Northwestern Illinois do not agree with you.
The 6 January 2010, Chicago Sun Times reports:
"Elected officials, community and business leaders and the residents of Northwest Illinois are wholeheartedly supporting this proposal because they understand that this is an opportunity to create up to 3,800 jobs and generate more than $1 billion in a region that desperately needs both."
See full article.
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"Yes, charities, Trade Unions, and other interest groups also use lobbyists to argue their cases to politicians; however corporations use the best lobbyists ... " (from dceilar at #204)
Some people are slow learners. Charities, trade unions, and such interest groups are corporations. Nearly every small business and nonprofit organization in the US is a corporation.
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I am sorry. I did not, of course, intend in any way to imply that non-infidels are not capable of using Google.
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Allow me, there was once a younger non-infidel and an adult non-infidel talking about the of the younger non-fidel's rather ballistic and majestic confrontation with a wannab infidel....the whole conversation I will censor except for one comment of the older infidel which was, "the arguments of your opponents stimulate your mind thats why you have to listen to your opponents provided they dont start abusing you or the things which are near and dear to you because at that point the arguments turn into garbage and people like you and me, dont like the smell or sight of garbage so we leave instead of standing in the pile and accusing garbage for being the garbage" unquote..
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I meant Earth Liberation Front instead of Earth First, but it's a small difference, in my opinion.
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I feared he [Obama] might be an opportunist, now i believe he is one and will not support him in the next election, unless someone like Hitler shows up as a Republican candidate."
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obama is a politician and politicians will do anything to enhance their career, they can even become first class patriots....Being an opportunist is the basic requirement of politician...
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Any reasonable person knows that Muslim terrorists do not represent Islam,
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But the 14 countries on the obligatory go through pornographic booths at the airport represent the terrorists....islam or no islam..And out 14, 13 countries are muslim which means that the any reasonable person mentioned in your post consider all those people terrorists until proved that they are not..Now, count how many people the reasonble person has taken for granted are terrorists...and let me know the answer..
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Ref 211 SaintDominick-
"Yes, many states are having serious fiscal problems, but the ones to blame are the Governors and legislature in those states, not the Federal government."
That is exactly where the blame lies for those States facing fiscal problems. Obviously the majority of active voters in those States made poor decisions in the voting booths when they elected their flawed governments.
I will admit that we have a deck full of jokers running the State of Michigan into the ground. A Democratic Governor has not had the leadership skills to overcome the obstructionist tactics of the Legislature. Both Houses of which are controlled by Republican majorities. Their very foolish game of partisan politics has bankrupt a once prosperous State.
Seems as if the electorate of Illinois is not doing much better.
It will go a long way to explain how poorly "We the People..." in the Great State Of Michigan go about electing people to represent us when one understands that Michigan was the only State in the Union to endorse Gov. George Wallace of Alabama in the 1968 Presidential Primaries.
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214.GH1618:
This is not a court of law; if anyone wrote "all Muslims are potential terrorists" plenty if people, pundits, journalists and politicians have at the least deliberately implied that and some have done more.
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212 meerkat
"[the first thing dictators or would be dictators always do is to disarm people they intend to subjugate. For obvious reason. :-)]"
Wow - your twisted logic has managed to create a link between Hitler and the gun-control lobby. That should be worth a pat on the head from your controller!!!!
Oh, and generally the first act of would-be dictators is to make other political parties illegal, thus ensuring no opposition.
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Any reasonable person knows that Muslim terrorists do not represent Islam,
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But the 14 countries on the obligatory go through pornographic booths at the airport represent the terrorists....islam or no islam..And out 14, 13 countries are muslim which means that the any reasonable person mentioned in your post consider all those people terrorists until proved that they are not..Now, count how many people the reasonble person has taken for granted are terrorists...and let me know the answer..
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Those any reasonble persons or person should now know that only muslims who are not terrorists are the ones who can get pass the pornographic booths, and thats how many muslims who represent islam, according to your logic in which you mercilessly sacrificed any reasonble person..
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squirrelist (#222), I am not satisfied with your reference to "plenty of people." If you can provide a link to some specific statement by a particular person, I might have some comment on it.
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Ref 222 squirrelist-
Didn't understand your above referenced post.
Your breaking up there, nutter. Have your spokeshuman move to another branch on the oak tree for clearer reception. :-D
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217. At 8:15pm on 07 Jan 2010, colonelartist wrote:
"Allow me, there was once a younger non-infidel and an adult non-infidel. . ."
I take it this is a response to someone who said "I don't need to see it or smell it to know [an argument] is garbage" a day or two ago? Recycled as some kind of parable?
Anyway, I'm not going to continue this strand; its place is really on another thread, not this one.
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Gary @216
Some people are slow learners. Charities, trade unions, and such interest groups are corporations. Nearly every small business and nonprofit organization in the US is a corporation.
Who's rattled your cage?
When most people speak of Corporations they imply businesses (except pedants). Even wiki says: There are many different forms of corporations, most of which are used to conduct business. I'm beginning to trust wiki more than you!
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I take it this is a response to someone who said "I don't need to see it or smell it to know [an argument] is garbage" a day or two ago? Recycled as some kind of parable?
Anyway, I'm not going to continue this strand; its place is really on another thread, not this one.
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If someone comes up to me and points out to posts of say, interestedforgeiner, (easy name to spell) about non-infidel and their countries, then the above garbage example fits...I will not read the posts as I know what he would have written...not the exact posts, but the underlying message and theme...You are free to not write on this strand...
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ref #200
powermeerkat wrote:
Re #197
Senator Boxer is not poor, either.
Nor is Speaker Pelosi. Ted Kennedy was also uncorruptible.
[he even gave plenty of money to the needy and opressed, e.g., IRA]
Actually it's hard to find a poor advocate of the poor among idealistic Democrats in the U.S. Congress.
As one observer of Washington political scene famously noticed:
"The came to Washington to do good. And they did well."
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Which observor? Some history about Ted Kennedy alot of his money was in off shore accounts he and his family were major hypocrites on the environment.
Barbara Boxer is a political hack who has been one of the biggest obstructionists in the Senate.
Pelosi has made the house atmosphere very psinous.
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RomeStu.
Pat yourself on whatever before you cross the point of no return.
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What people call terrorist are now a group of disaffected young men being recruited from the West to go on some great adventure. Obviously, they are not very good with explosives and receive poor training. Yemen is simply a country with limited government control of areas of their own country. The commitment seems to be on the wane, or they are running out of suicide bombers. Most are realizing that blowing themselves up only serves the political purposes of their leaders, who by the way, do not blow themselves up....lack of commitment. Those who express great concern for some averted attempt on a plane in the US seem to lack the same concern or compassion for those citizens in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan who deal with these attempts on a more regular basis. Some airport personnel make some mistakes and people want to blame the President....real political agenda dot connecting...unbalanced might be the correct discription of that thinking. Many who read these blogs fear the American right as much as they fear the Muslim terrorist, as they see them with similar solutions to problems. Civil libertarians who want cameras on every corner, but only recording Arab looking people.
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Some airport personnel make some mistakes and people want to blame the President....
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And the president blame the people of 14 countries....americans are lucky that they fear a small minority of terrorists, muslims on the other hand fear the american right and their left..because the left has shown that its not at all all that left...The american left united behind bush by moving to the right side of the continuum and now they are stuck there..
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And so, as a response to the idea that Democrats are 'defeatist', war has just been re-declared.
(I heard the speech.)
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Meerkat
Touché!
My apologies. On re-reading I agree it was a little too far (but only the pat on the head bit .... I stand by the rest!)
ps enjoyed the banter earlier .... the lighter side is important too, eh!
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Did obama need to declassify the documents of incompetency of cia at this time when three of his big fish have decided to retire on "family reasons"? The timing is perfect..its up to the republicans to not let the americans become drowned in the declassifying and continue their propoganda against these bigs ones...and the defeatist democratic party..
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18. At 7:27pm on 06 Jan 2010, MagicKirin wrote:
"First I am not Crash, as far as I know I have not been banned....
Here is an interesting stat for Kennedy's vacant seat Scott Brown has a chance to win only 9 points behind and if the third party canidate drops out he can win."
I dislike the national Republican party, its airhead glamorgirl and its pompous air[wave] polluter. But I have been toying with voting for Brown because he sounds reasonable and is in a position, if elected, to end the outrageous one-party situation in Massachusetts.
Both of the national parties are corupt and need to be shaken up. Rebuilding the Rockefeller [Liberal] Republican Party wing with a strong New England [Liberal] base could save the two party system. However, as I regard them as a "Pushmepullyou" or "catdog" that is really one corrupt party, I may just vote for the hopeless green candidate.
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In The Ghetto (*)
(*)=Eric B & Rakim/Little John/Victor Addis
It shouldn’t have to be like that
I guess it ain’t where you’re from, it’s where
You’re at
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206. colonelartist wrote:
"Infidels are extremely good at telling others to keep quiet unless, they have been to their places , or have heard their leaders or read their books, but in reality they do excatly [sic] what they tell others of not doing...Example, the interestedforgeiner [sic] who three [or] four days ago generously replied to one of my posts about canada [sic], with one single sentence "you dont [sic] know about canada [sic]"....as if he has been to all those places he frequently posts about...atleast [sic] i [sic] have been to canada, and am even dwelling [word choice] on becoming a neo settler over there..."
How do you know exactly where Interested Foreigner has traveled? He knows far more about Canada than you do. Traveling to a place once is not the same as living there; for example, consider how ignorant Marcus Aurelius II is of France, even though he has apparently been there once. An inquisitive mind makes the difference between seeing the sights and searching out the secrets of the society. If you are seriously thinking about moving to Canada, you really should not insult the people there. You should also spend a great deal of time studying the history and culture of Canada so that you don't earn yourself a bad name in your new home.
229. colonelartist wrote:
"If someone comes up to me and points out to posts of say, interestedforgeiner, (easy name to spell) [etc]"
Easy, but not easy enough for you, eh?
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Szechuan Chicken;
"Most are realizing that blowing themselves up only serves the political purposes of their leaders, who by the way, do not blow themselves up...."
That's America's job, to find their leaders and blow them up. Too bad Obama didn't make that job one or even job two. It was down somewhere at the bottom of the pile as in "I'll get to it later." "The system worked." What would have had to have happened for the system not to have worked, a second later and the bomb would have gone off? When will Napolitano's head roll? Where has Congress been? They spent all these billions and this is what they have to show for it and neither the President nor his top advisors knew? What do they do all day, sit in useless meetings, read useless reports?
pseudo-conservative, how many years did you live in a non English speaking part of France to know what I know and don't know about it? How well did you learn to speak French, how many French people did you speak with in their own language on their own soil? How long did you deal with the day to day problems of life in their society living and coping by their rules? If you haven't, go on to a subject you do know something about whatever that might be.
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Dceiler."I'm beginning to trust wiki more than you!" I got that way a long time ago. Reading here only of course.
Gary I would say there have been plenty here that have made that statement. Personally If I was here I would have complained. That comment being so Islamaphobic normally gets removed. How ever I am sure if you trolled back through the conversations you will find a few that we that do try to remember do remember.
There have been so many here it has provided quite a challenge challenging that accusation from the Islamophobics.
There have been a lot who have suggested it .MajikKirin for starters.
Of course if remembering is difficult I have no suggestions.
214 did you notice who died recently? A white Christian terrorist, encouraged by something close to radical clerics. Minority cleric admittedly, but if you took away the law here. As we have in most places we interfere, you would have a very scary place.
I'd agree that the likes of the Colonel make that real hard for some not to react, he makes it a more difficult row to hoe . Good to see that you will complain promptly if you see anything like that appearing again. VIGILANCE ! After all.
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The strangest phrase is
" If not saying all muslims are terrorists BUT.................
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The timing is more than curious! Senators usually leave in handcuffs, or in a box, as I recently read. Why would they switch parties if their cause was for naught? Color the front page as you wish, but the norm is not for star poicitians to quit...
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238. sofa king:
Meant to say. Nice and succinct. Pity you might get clobbered by the you-know-who's if you post it again as often as I suspect it'll need to be.
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Re #234squirrellist wrote: "I heard the speech"
And have you read that
"The report revealed that a missspelling of Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's name had led the State Department to believe that he did not have a valid US visa - which he did."?
Nope, it wasn't CIA who wrote "missspelling". Nor was it USSD.
What where you saying earlier about missunderapppreciated work of sub-editors? ;-)
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Re #239 "An inquisitive mind makes the difference between seeing the sights and searching out the secrets of the society."
Some inquisitive residents (although not necesarily citizens) of Canada (and not only Canada) call it simply "casing".
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Re #240 "When will Napolitano's head roll?"
Perhaps a Siciliano would have been more effective in locating and blowing up al-Qaida leaders?
Preferably one from Corleone.
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I am suprised at the venom that is spewing from so many here. The biggest problem with the existing government in the United States is the lack of following the Constitution and the Ten Amendments. People like Pelosi, Reid Boxer, Fienstein, Waters, Derbin and this crowd that claim to be representing the people are willing to eliminate the Constitution for their own gain. As for the person who said Fienstein is uncorruptable needs to look at her "work on the Military Appororiations Board". In violation of the law she arranged and made many contracts for her husbands business to be the only contractor to bid, let alone any other contractor to be allowed to. this is just only one of the laws she has broken.
As for others on the board I suggest that you check why the Amendments were added to the Constitution. Not to get some richer as seems to be the hint here, although it seems all the laws lately have been only to protect the fat cats in the government. I would vote for a Democrat if the person would only follow the Laws of the land and not believe he/she is above all laws. That is why I voted for the Constitution Party candidate last election. Bothe the main parties have left the idea of a Constitutional Republic (which is what America is, not a Democracy as some have been conditioned to believe) behind and embraced Stalin as a role model to emulate. Does everyone forget how many were killed in his "Death Camps" in the frozen parts of Siberia.
As for the Guantanamo Prisioners they are not subject to Constitutional law as some of you would have us believe. You have to be a citizen of the United States to be afforded that privilage. The ACLU is not correct in the argument they are supposed to have those rights. As for the treatment that the US puts them through think about the way others are treated in many other countries that are condemening the US. Your Islamic countries are often more willing to eliminate someone for breathing than even our harshest judicial system. If the military can operate under military law then so can the "detainees".
If you shoot at me I will shoot back at you. the people at Guantanamohave done that so you are falling for the same mind control that you are railing against.
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248 dale
"Bothe [sic] the main parties have left the idea of a Constitutional Republic (which is what America is, not a Democracy as some have been conditioned to believe)"
I know that technincally this is correct, but if so then why the emphasis on spreading "democracy" throughout the world.
If it's not good enough for US consumption, why force it on the rest!
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249. At 09:11am on 08 Jan 2010, RomeStu wrote:
"If it's not good enough for US consumption, why force it on the rest!"
So they can always claim they're better than everyone else for ever and ever?
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This is what the "defeatist" Democrats are up against...
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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Ref 247, powermeerkat
"Perhaps a Siciliano would have been more effective in locating and blowing up al-Qaida leaders?
Preferably one from Corleone."
I'll take Michael - and even the Godfather himself - over the gang that was in office on 9/11/01.
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I voted for Obama with so many hopes. I like some of what he has done. It is not all bad. There are so many problems that it is hard for him to do everything. But some of my hopes have been shattered. Before he was President, Obama told the American public that he thought it was wrong to force people to buy insurance or face fines/go to jail. Now that he is President, Obama is promoting forcing us to buy insurance or face fines/go to jail. I think this is 100 % wrong. Although I agree that health care needs to change, this is the wrong way. The Obama Admin. has stated that they will offer subsidies to "MOST" people who can't afford health insurance, but not all. So there will be people punished for being poor by Obama in his health care plan.
Obama said he wanted to shut down Guan. Bay and I absolutely agree with that. It should not have been opened in the first place. However, he never said he wanted to bring them to the heartland. I know that we have some of the best security, but I have a very bad feeling about this. It really breaks my heart. I love Illinois and the USA so much. I don't see why we have to bring these people here who have so much hatred for us and do not understand who we really are: simple people with simple lives. They look at us and see our celebrities, wealth and cheesy reality shows. But what they don't understand is that the normal people are just that: normal, not at all like celebrities and we get by, but certainly don't have great wealth. Not all of us can afford the latest things and there are some that live off the land, including the rural farmers and Amish. The terrorists do not understand who we truly are and we do not truly understand who they are. We love God just as much as the Islamic terrorists love Allah. But what we do know is that Obama wants to bring the people that hate us most here. It feels wrong.
Yes, it is an instinct. How can you trust an instinct? It is something within oneself, like you just feel good or bad about a situation. Is it just emotion or is there something else? Bob Dylan has also sang, "If you need someone to trust, trust yourself."
The last time I had a bad feeling like this was when Bush was elected the first time. I was too young to vote, but never liked him from the start. My parents thought he would be like his father. They never expected him to do things the way he did. I thought Obama would follow through with what he told us- such as being against the health care mandate. I never expected Obama to go back on his word.
But he has. I guess you just can't expect a President to really do what he says he is going to do, whether it is a Bush or a Obama. I am learning that the Dems have their hang-ups just like the Repubs. ( I used to shun politics, never was into them.) You just have to hope for the best. We just have to hang in there. I will pray for you, President Obama, for you to find the best possible solutions we can find to get us out of the messes. Even if I don't agree with all of what Obama is doing, I promise my beautiful country I will never give up on you because I know that we have love in our hearts. The Islamic terrorists will fall, because they have hatred in theirs.
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RomeStu (#249) "I know that technincally this is correct, but if so then why the emphasis on spreading "democracy" throughout the world."
This question has come up before. Yes, the US is technically a republic, meaning that the people are sovereign (as opposed to a monarchy). But it is also a democracy, meaning that the people exercize political power (usually through representatives; occasionally directly at the state level). Constitutional monarchies such as the UK are also democracies. Sovereignty isn't what it used to be.
In short, "democracy" is a very broad term. The many institutions of governance which make up a democratic system may be more or less democratic individually. There is no one formula implied by the term "democracy."
"Republic" merely distinguishes the system from monarchies (constitutional or otherwise) or other systems in which the people are not sovereign.
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It was I who wrote that Senator Feinstein is uncorruptible. The charge made by Dale Johnson in post #248 appears serious, but it has been around for awhile and apparently continues to circulate among a certain element. I will leave it to a spokesman of the senator to respond to the charge, in letter printed in the following linked document: The Hill
I am satisfied that there is nothing about this matter which would lead me to believe that my senator has acted unethically. Californians are well aware of the nature of the business of Senator Feinstein's husband (Mr. Blum), and a large majority of them believe that she is doing a fine job as one of our senators.
As for the constitutional questions which Mr. Johnson raises in his post, we have a Supreme Court which decides these matters. The "Constitution Party" which he mentions is an ultra-conservative fringe party of self-appointed constitutional "experts" who are of no consequence. Their presidential candidate in 2008 received about .15% of the popular vote.
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253 lucy
"Before he was President, Obama told the American public that he thought it was wrong to force people to buy insurance or face fines/go to jail. Now that he is President, Obama is promoting forcing us to buy insurance or face fines/go to jail. I think this is 100 % wrong. Although I agree that health care needs to change, this is the wrong way."
This is all fine, but lay the blame where it is due - with the various members of Congress who castrated the healthcare propositions oriignally wanted by Obama.
Campagning is one thing, but real politics involves lots of horse-trading, and in the long run the current bill is still better than nothing, and sets the ground for future improvements.
By the way I mainly blame the democrats in congress for the problems of the bill. Obama wanted one thing, but sadly was not forceful enough to push it through against the interests of individual senators who held out their votes to secure changes and dilution of the idea.
Obama wanted a public option, but that was blocked, so compulsory insurance was the next step. I agree that it's rubbish, but it's not all Obama's fault.
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How do you know exactly where Interested Foreigner has traveled? He knows far more about Canada than you do. Traveling to a place once is not the same as living there; for example, consider how ignorant Marcus Aurelius II is of France, even though he has apparently been there once. An inquisitive mind makes the difference between seeing the sights and searching out the secrets of the society. If you are seriously thinking about moving to Canada, you really should not insult the people there. You should also spend a great deal of time studying the history and culture of Canada so that you don't earn yourself a bad name in your new home.
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I delibrately rest my case, you have insticntly or non insticntly used the same argument which I problematised in my that post...You have no idea how many times i traveled to, where and how many people and animals i met....I will be a neo settler over there, not a sociologist or anthropologist...
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'trueconservative' whatever that means, believes term limits will help...they have that in California and now they are not allowed to have experienced legislators so lobbyists (no term limits for them) write legislation...I believe Enron was big for that and the result was an incredible increase in energy costs that taxpayers must pay...that is conservatism? Barry Goldwater would be turning over in his grave if he read what 'trueconservative' wrote...
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#257 colonelartist -
"I will be a neo settler over there, not a sociologist or anthropologist..."
I must say, I enjoy your posts.
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258. At 6:18pm on 08 Jan 2010, Chuckles wrote:
"'trueconservative' whatever that means, believes term limits will help..."
I do not! If you had read my whole post, you would see that I'm actually very cynical about term limits. They haven't helped in PA, and I have no reason to believe they'll help anywhere else. I thought I was quite clear with that.
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Pelosi isn't someone you want on your side. She whinges and lies a lot.
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President Obama is to thank for that. Watch his speech before he was elected President. It's a lie that will haunt him forever and he will not be re-elected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Api4fUziAnI&feature=player_embedded#
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Anyone ever looked up the the root word, conserve? Why can't all governments stop the wasteful spending...this bloody global warming is killing people...the rich get richer off of it and the poor pay them. Whatever happened to the Robin Hood ideology? We've got the rich stealing from the poor all over the world. Socialist countries are foolish. There really is no middle class...it's either rich...and poor.
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263 emily
"Whatever happened to the Robin Hood ideology? We've got the rich stealing from the poor all over the world. Socialist countries are foolish. There really is no middle class...it's either rich...and poor."
I don't really understand your point.
You seem upset about the imbalance between rich and poor and that there is no more "Robin Hood" mentality ..... and then you say that socialist countries are foolish.
(Although there really are no socialist countries in the west, only "less capitalist" ones) The idea of socialism is partly to redistribute the wealth to help the poor. (whether it works or not is not the point here). If you are poor it is a good thing - if you are rich it is not.
If, as you say, there is no more middle class then we should all (except the genuinely rich) be socialists, as it would be in our interests.
You simply don't understand the concepts, and if you are a typical representative of the American public, I now more clearly understand why there is so much misunderstanding in the US.
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54. At 11:05pm on 06 Jan 2010, GH1618 wrote: "In the United States, Senators represent their states, not their parties. In my opinion (as an American and an independent) this is the way it should be."
In general I agree with you but I would rewrite the above opinion, thus, "In theory Senators represent their states, not thier parties, but in reality [like Lieberman] they represent the special interests to which [like lieberman to the insurance industry] they are beholden for past and future benefits." This is not the way it should be as they should represent the interests of their states, its citizens, and the United States as a whole.
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63. At 02:25am on 07 Jan 2010, rodidog wrote:
"What Democrats are now seeing is what happened to Republicans in 2006. Their base is sore at the direction of the party and the Independents are fleeing to the other side in hopes of balance. Like Republicans then, Democrats believe the majority of Americans are on their side while ignoring the canaries in the mine shaft telling them otherwise. Odds are 2010 will be a rude awakening for many liberal Democrats."
The inconvenient truth is that a large and growing number of Americans have begun to see that the corrupt catdog party is not serving them but special interests. As both left and right reject the corrupt center, the duopoly will become increasingly divirced from any resemblance to democratic government. The result could be either a left right struggle that will tear the country apart as it has European countries in the past, or a period of unpredictable confusion [which also might tear the country apart].
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197. At 6:35pm on 07 Jan 2010, GH1618 wrote:
RomeStu (#185) "I'm not attacking you ... "
“Senator Feinstein is absolutely uncorruptable. She is independently wealthy, and she has been such a popular senator that the Republicans put up only token opposition to her reelection.”
That the very wealthy are “uncorruptable,” presumably because the money they have makes them immune to the temptation of acquiring more, is, at best, highly questionable. There is also power and fame to be achieved, and after one already owns more than 7 or 8 homes, there are other places in the world that one might want a bungalow [or two]. There is a well known high tech company that continues to introduce faulty products, in order to maximize profits and continue dominating the industry, even though it already has incredible profits and a virtual monopoly. More is always better in the US, isn’t it?
Bribery, as you pointed out, is illegal. The bribery laws do need to be tightened up to prevent past, present and future “favors” as well as cash from being exchanged by not just office holders but by their friends and families.
As to freedom of speech covering lobbyists, the hope of present or future jobs or income from the lobbying corporations is nothing less than bribery even under our present laws, it is not sufficiently nor strictly enforced.
216. At 8:08pm on 07 Jan 2010, GH1618 wrote:
"Yes, charities, Trade Unions, and other interest groups also use lobbyists to argue their cases to politicians; however corporations use the best lobbyists ... " (from dceilar at #204)
“Some people are slow learners. Charities, trade unions, and such interest groups are corporations. Nearly every small business and non-profit organization in the US is a corporation.”
This is true. Like Acorn, any corporation, whether for profit or political advantage, which commits corrupt acts should be prosecuted as individuals are. Oh, I just remembered, the laws that give corporations the advantages of “legal persons” were carefully crafted to shield them from the responsibilities, duties and punishments that real persons face when they break the laws.
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267 jmm
"As to freedom of speech covering lobbyists, the hope of present or future jobs or income from the lobbying corporations is nothing less than bribery even under our present laws, it is not sufficiently nor strictly enforced."
This is an extremely good point.
We should be watching closely where these politicians who step down "to spend more time with their families" end up working. As Lobbyists, or on the board of their "sponsors" perhaps .... we shall wait and see.
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Well truth is stranger than fiction. Recently Sal Esposito of East Boston, Massachusetts was called for Jury Duty. A fairly common duty of registered voters to report to serve possibly on a trial jury. The only problem is Sal is a cat! Yes an honest to God feline. With the current Sec of State in Massachusetts who doesn't require an ID to vote in elections one can only wonder how many times Sal has voted in elections in this heavily Democratic leaning state. This same Sec of State wouldn't allow absentee military ballots in an election, and the Feds got involoved. So now with a Senate election to fill Ted Kennedy's seat, one can only wonder if Sal would have cast his vote for Martha Coakley. Maybe Acorn can register other pets to vote in the coming elections. Anyway, the State of Massachussetts Judge requires the owners to bring Sal in to be viewed to lay proof to this claim. Only in America!
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To JMM incorruptible? The Highest paid Supreme Court Justice of the fifty states was caught with his hand in the cookie jar in Rhode Island, Judge Fay. One can only wonder what the other 49 states have. So if someone is wealthy they are incorruptible? How did Fienstien amass her wealth???? No favors? No special treatment. I don't buy that anyone is incorruptible.
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269 grizz
"The only problem is Sal is a cat! Yes an honest to God feline. With the current Sec of State in Massachusetts who doesn't require an ID to vote in elections one can only wonder how many times Sal has voted in elections in this heavily Democratic leaning state."
I wouldn't worry about extra votes for the Dems - everyone knows cats are fiercely independent!
[Great story though]
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JMM (#267), you are making a generalization from my remarks about Senator Feinstein which I do not make. There certainly are wealthy, corrupt people in the world, but Feinstein is not one of them. The principal reason is her character, but one reason that her character cannot be compromised by campaign contributions is that she doesn't need them.
When the Drakes Bay Oyster Farm (a small family business and a corporation) appeals to Senator Feinstein for help resisting the overreaching of the Interior Department, that is not bribery, even if the corporation or its owners make contributions to the senator's political fund. (I have no idea whether they do or not, and don't care, as long as it is within the law.) Oyster farming is one of those "special interests" that ignorant people like to invoke as a code term for implied corruption. There is nothing corrupt about it. I happen to like oysters, and I hope the DBOF is allowed to remain as long as they please.
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since when did we have a representative govt? Its always been the rich and powerfull deciding who we are voting for. Blue or Red...is the still the same puppet masters pulling the strings...
Its time for a new system..one that actually does the right thing for the people..not themselves or their stupid party..
as it stands now we the american people are serfs and renters of the king. You can sugar coat it anyway you want..but when the govt owns between 40-60% of your labor BEFORE you do...what do you call it? When the govt can take your land because you haven't paid your tribute to the king (which is always more than before)...what do you call it..
We are NOT FREE we are SERFS and TENANT FARMERS...thanks 100% to the liberal elites of this world...You claim to be for the "little people" but only enslave us with your Big Brother govt...
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" ... the laws that give corporations the advantages of “legal persons” were carefully crafted to shield them from the responsibilities, duties and punishments that real persons face when they break the laws." (from JMM at #267)
This statement by JMM is not only not true, it is nonsense. The original US Supreme Court decision which equated a corporation to a person, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886), 118 U.S. 394, held that corporations were entitled to equal protection of the laws, as are persons. This and other such decisions have nothing whatever to do with any kind of immunity from wrongdoing. Corporations, and their corporate officers and employees, are subject to punishment for wrongdoing as is any person, and we read about such cases often (ever heard of Enron?).
As for whether a corporation should be considered equivalent to a person in all respects legally, there is some opposition to this idea. I happen to think that the Bill of Rights was written with actual persons in mind, not corporations, although I have no problem with corporations enjoying equal protection of the laws.
Our most recent USSC justice, Sonia Sotomayor, who has considerable experience with corporate law, has recently questioned this principle. Many people, including myself, think the question should be revisited and revised, so that legislation can be written which regulates corporations in sensible ways without unreasonably impeding their right to conduct their legitimate business in legitimate ways.
Here is a link to some background on this question which I found interesting:
corporation-as-a-person
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JMM (#265), you are correct that the principle that senators represent their states is theoretical, and that the reality is that some senators may put other interests ahead of their state. Isn't that true of every aspect of life? Senators are human like everyone else. At least a significant part of their work must be done in public view, and every six years we get a chance to vote on whether they should be allowed to continue it.
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"I think President Obama and the Democrats in general miscalculated the political climate in the USA, the strength of our "conservative" leanings, and misunderstood the reason for the victories in November 2008. Democratis principles did not contribute to the victories in 2008, the Republicans lost because they over reached during their tenure."
I couldn't agree more, which reiterates the point that the Republican base and their supporters have carved out an identity for an America that no longer resembles the America that existed in the late 1960s. The Christian / right wing movement champion social, economic and foreign policy that resembles the America of the 1820s, nevermind the 21st Century. I fear the Democratic Party will be nothing more than a punishment threat for the dominant Republican Party, used only as a threat when the Republicans over reach hence never going more than one term in many elections. The truth, being that it was the Repblican party that got America into the mess that it is in today on every key issue they champion (the economy, the war(s), border issues and foreign policy) just will not hit home. Furthermore, it will be erased from memory and blamed on the Democrats, who are incapable of fighting as dirty as the Republicans can.
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Re #269 "Maybe Acorn can register other pets to vote in the coming elections"
Mayor Daley sr.-the one who famously asked J. Kennedy 'how many votes do you need?' - had managed to persuade a lot of stiffs at Windy City's cemeteries to vote for JFK.
And for those Democrats who were alive he had that advice:
VOTE EARLY, VOTE OFTEN!
P.S. How many grizzles are inclined to vote for another Hero of Chappaquiddick?
And who's this Benito Suppositore?
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Wow, you are supposed to be an expert on America?
FYI, the republicans have had more retirements and party switches than we. Just.. throwing that out there. Quite frankly, with their dismal fund-raising and tea bagger issues.. this next election (which should be a body slam against us dems) will probably just retain the status quo until 2012, when dems will shine.
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RE #276
While the democratic politicians might not fight dirty, your assuming that the Internet, with its never ending memory, will be absolutely useless in reminding people of the retardation that was Republican rule.
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274. At 6:59pm on 09 Jan 2010, GH1618 wrote:
"' ... the laws that give corporations the advantages of “legal persons” were carefully crafted to shield them from the responsibilities, duties and punishments that real persons face when they break the laws.' (from JMM at #267)
This statement by JMM is not only not true, it is nonsense. The original US Supreme Court decision which equated a corporation to a person, Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886), 118 U.S. 394, held that corporations were entitled to equal protection of the laws, as are persons."
Are the boards of directors, CFOs and Ceos punished for corporate actions in the same way as individuals are? Your occasional swindler like Madoff is fined and sent to prison, but are the people running the big banks & companies collectively held to account? Are those who plunged the US and the world into the recent recession imprisoned, fined or punished or are they getting bailouts and bonuses?
I believe that corporations should, if found guilty, be held to account like Mafia bosses since they are also guilty of "organized crime." How many of those responsible for recent problems are in jail or penniless as compared to ordinary folks? Not enough! And unless the laws are strictly applied the corporate culture will continue on course until the whole edifice crumbles. [I may sound like a very left-wing sort, but I am actually concerned lest out of control capitalism consume itself.]
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JMM (#280) "Are the boards of directors, CFOs and Ceos punished for corporate actions in the same way as individuals are?"
Yes. In the case of Enron, several executives were indicted, including two CEOs and the CFO. By the way, these executives are individuals.
Serving as a corporate executive does not provide immunity from charges of fraud. Fraud is a crime, whether the individual who commits it is a corporate officer or not. If you want to rant about supposed criminal conduct, why don't you name a specific person and tell me what crime you accuse them of? (Because it would likely be libelous, that's why.)
JMM doesn't sound "left-wing" to me, he just sounds off-the-wall.
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#281 Gary
Yes. In the case of Enron, several executives were indicted, including two CEOs and the CFO. By the way, these executives are individuals.
If you want to rant about supposed criminal conduct, why don't you name a specific person and tell me what crime you accuse them of? (Because it would likely be libelous, that's why.)
How about Union Carbide and its CEO, Warren Anderson, who should be indicted for corporate negligence and manslaughter in the Bhopal disaster? I await your usual excuses.
That Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad (1886) is just some bourgeois bull to let capitalist corporations to overtrod the rights of real individuals. If you think big business corporations need protecting then you are a fool. We need protecting from them. Why don't you look into the history of Corporations beginning with the Royal Charters issued by Elizabeth I in the 17th century.
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"How about Union Carbide and its CEO, Warren Anderson ... "
Anderson has been charged, in India, but the Indian government has been unable to establish probable cause that he has committed a crime, so did not succeed in their extradition request. What has protected Anderson from extradition is the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution. That Anderson was a corporate executive has nothing whatever to do with his culpability, and is no basis for forfeit of constitutional rights which protect us all.
The mere fact of being chief executive is not sufficient to make a person criminally culpable for actions committed by others in the company or in subsidiary companies. We don't change the rules of due process based on the severity of the incident. Those who would label Anderson a criminal have a burden to show that he had knowledge, and that he acted (or failed to act) on that knowledge in violation of a particular criminal law.
As I understand the current status of this case in India, an attempt was made to reduce the charges to something for which probable cause could be established, but it failed. I don't believe a new extradition request has been made; there is not much point to it without revising the charges or providing evidence which would support the current charges.
We are fortunate that our country does not deliver up its citizens to lynch mobs.
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Actually, the origins of corporate structure are much older than the 17th century: The Historu of the Corporation - introduction
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Gary and the pedants excuse for not having a trial for a guy who may have been responsible for the deaths of thousands of people .
Forgetting this discussion has been had before and it was shown that there are charges relating to the days after the incident that may have been his fault. Why were the doctors treating patients not told WHAT they were treating etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc
Just the normal list of quotes not relevant to this case.
Americans for America.
Coorperations are guilty not the ceo unless someone looses MONEY in AMERICA.
fairs fair.
Allow the trial. OR America should expect more to behave like the taliban and refuse to extradite to America until they have conclusive proof that the guy was guilty.
Either way if anyone wanted to see more on this subject the Justice thread
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2009/11/a_triumph_of_justice.html
there is quite a lively discussion there.
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How can Democrats possibly loose having somebody like the Senate Majority Leader Honorable Harry Reid of Nevada to guide them to victory?
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Now Greece is taking the whole western markets down, why not ask Greeks to open their tourist spots at cut rate price, like 30% rebate yo EU and US customers and it will boom in Greek isle and cut the deficit or reduce the debt they owe.
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