Britain: Putting the bite on the States
The British ambassador to the United States is suggesting on his blog that one thing we bring to the special relationship is a bloody good bite. He is pointing out the history of British actors portraying vampires, most recently in the latest film in the Twilight saga.
Long before I arrived here, I was tickled by the way we are portrayed in popular American media. If a Brit is involved it's a good old British pound to a cent that if not a thinly disguised Mrs Thatcher, he or she is a toff, a con artist, a degenerate, or just someone with horrific teeth. Preferably all three, which could be why we score so highly in portraying vampires.
The vampire genre has rather taken off in a tweeny direction with Twilight. Close readers of this blog will know I am at home this week taking care of the children and so I can report that junior sources reveal that Robert Pattinson is exceedingly toothsome.
Vampires, are of course, sexy. In the original Dracula, Jonathan Harker's execution of the vampiric Lucy is either disturbingly Freudian or just plain funny, depending on your taste.
But if we play the undead sharply, Americans can tell the tales.
To me, the American vampire tradition reached its high with Anne Rice's sometimes magnificent Vampire Chronicles. Lestat, played by Tom Cruise in one film, is based in New Orleans, a city I long to visit and which seems to provide just the right gothic background.
Vampires are, to my mind, highly intelligent, masters of recondite knowledge, meticulous dressers, favouring a rather formal, old-fashioned style. They tend to have an aristocratic bearing and rather cynical detachment.
While sometimes tortured by what they do, they are basically amoral servants of a higher power. Where better to hide than in plain sight, in the upper echelons of the British foreign office ? Get out the garlic, Sir Nigel.
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~01~RS~)
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Mark, this is probably too cerebral for some people! ;)
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Sorry to disagree, but I would say that the Hungarian Bela Lugosi was the definitive vampire as Count Dracula.
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Vampirism should be banned.
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Here, on the other hand, is the definitive British actor in roles for the American audience: http://www.michaelcaine.com/
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'Say at last--who art thou?' 'That Power I serve Which wills forever evil Yet does forever good.'
-- Goethe, Faust
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Don't know what's going on with the cite today, but Mark writes : '"Long before I arrived here, I was tickled by the way we are portrayed in popular American media. If a Brit is involved it's a good old British pound to a cent that if not a thinly disguised Mrs Thatcher, he or she is a toff, a con artist, a degenerate, or just someone with horrific teeth. Preferably all three, which could be why we score so highly in portraying vampires."
First, what's wrong with Margret Thatcher? Now I'm an ardant liberal, so don't necessarily see eye to eye with her on...well...anything, but I totally admire and am inspired by her strength of character, her endurance, and her courage of conviction. If Hollywood portrays its villins in a Thatcher-esque like style, then I believe that that says more about the political views of the majority of Hollywood directors as aposed to the way they, or Americans in general, view the British people as a whole.
As a fellow movie/film (and I use both words all the time without thinking...oh no!! Does that mean I'll be rejected by the British people if I ever go there and accidentally use the word "movie" in discussion because I will not have "done as the Romans do?") I certainly hope not and think you worried too much on your "Speaking American" entry. I think anyone who would judge and/or ridicule you for the words you choose to use doesn't deserve to have you as a friend in the first place. But I digress.
As a fellow movie lover, I can say with I feel some evidence and education to back it up, that the British people, and the country of Britain, are portrayed in a favorable light more than America!!
For example, some movies off the top of my head that portray the British in a positive light include: "Last Chance Harvey," "Pirate Radio," "Frost/Nixon," "Love Actually," "Music and Lyrics," "The Parent Trap," "The Holiday," and '"Cold Mountain," (although since Jude Law plays a Confederate soldier from the deep south in that movie, he obviously doesn't play a Britain. So I don't know if that movie would pass your test.) Although I think you should know that I doubt they would have hired him to play the part if they didn't think he could be convincing as a Confederate soldier who deserts the army to find his love interest, but I could be wrong.
As for the other ways in which you cite the British as being portrayed in our movies, well many of the British contributors on both yours and Nick's blog see Americans as the above mentioned adjectives, so if its any consolation, this is definitely not a one way street!!
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Mark:
"If a Brit is involved it's a good old British pound to a cent that if not a thinly disguised Mrs Thatcher, he or she is a toff, a con artist, a degenerate, or just someone with horrific teeth."
Can't say I've noticed.
I have long known that proper Roman generals and senators speak with a aristocratic English accent. That has been expanded to cover any imperial type (like the Emperor in Star Wars).
For those who played D&D: I always imagined lawful-evil characters speaking with a the same accent.
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If it's a stereotyped British degenerate toff role you want, see Richard Harris as English Bob in Unforgiven.
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Ref Mark
"If a Brit is involved it's a good old British pound to a cent that if not a thinly disguised Mrs Thatcher, he or she is a toff, a con artist, a degenerate, or just someone with horrific teeth. Preferably all three..."
Don't forget, gecko.
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I can't say anything about Twilight, since I haven't seen the it. And True Blood is so close to the books that it bores me. But I have to agree with you about Tom Cruise in Interview with the Vampire. He was, uhm, tasty. Very, very tasty.
Of course, the BBC's excellent 1977 version of Count Dracula starring Frenchman Louis Jordan (an old favorite) I think disproves the pasty skin and bad teeth required theory. And Frank Langella of Italian ancestry was arguably one of the darker Counts, circa 1979, but very toothsome in my opinion.
But if your vamps are hiding out in government, ours may be at Goldman Sachs. Which may, unfortunately, be the exact same thing these days. At least if Matt Taibbi is correct. Regardless, his description of the bank as a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money" is priceless.
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Mark: '"But if we play the undead sharply, Americans can tell the tales."
Says what? Some treaty we signed? You can play whatever characters you want to. You can tell whatever tales you want. So can we. That's the beauty of living in a western society. Do what makes you happy, and so will we.
" One film, based in New Orleans, a city I long to visit and which seems to provide just the right gothic background."
Oh yeah? Well when you get there be sure to ask about the free health clinic held there this past weekend, treating those without health insurance because they could either not aford it or were dropped by their health insurance provider for selfish reasons. Then tell me how the NHS would have handled this quandry please? Because I think I'm forgetting.
"Vampires are, to my mind, highly intelligent, masters of recondite knowledge, meticulous dressers, favouring a rather formal, old-fashioned style. They tend to have an aristocratic bearing and rather cynical detachment."
Well then we are in complete agreement. Beautyful description.
"While sometimes tortured by what they do, they are basically amoral servants of a higher power. Where better to hide than in plain sight, in the upper echelons of the British foreign office ? Get out the garlic, Sir Nigel."
You aren't kidding! Its probably best not to mix politics and culture in public. Its much like criticising one's nation on foreign soil, or commenting on the domestic politics of another country publicly, much like Robert Shapiro, a senior Obama advisor, did in an extensive interview with the London Times, when he talked at length about British domestic politics.
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"To the Blood Bank, Cabbie! I wish to make a withdrawal!"
With apologies to George Hamilton.
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5. At 9:51pm on 18 Nov 2009, GH1618 wrote:
Here, on the other hand, is the definitive British actor in roles for the American audience: http://www.michaelcaine.com/
Excluding anyone reading this, he is certainly America's favorite Cockney. But no one has ever really replaced Richard Burton, who replaced Rex Harrison, who replaced Sir Laurence Olivier as the quintessential Brit for American audiences.
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I was going to attempt an intelligent comment about British stereotypes in American media but for some reason all that comes to mind is The Benny Hill Show and Red Dwarf.
Gee, I miss those shows.
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4. colonelartist wrote:
"Vampirism should be banned."
At the risk of seeming unkind, I am trying to decide whether our colonel is being humourous or serious!
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Having followed the link to the British ambassador's blog I'm a little confused about a couple of things ....
- why does an ambassador need a blog?
- should he really be so knowledgable about teen vampire shows?
- can it possibly (!) have been scripted by his trendy PR team to make HMA look with it and in touch with the yoof of the day.
It's a bit pathetic really. Here's an excerpt
"This week sees the release of the highly anticipated second instalment of the Vampire saga Twilight. This spectacular teen drama - which focuses on the forbidden love of the vampire Edward Cullen for his sweetheart Bella - has attracted, in some circles, as much attention as the current healthcare debate (although being undead would still presumably be classed as a pre-existing condition?).
Cullen is played by the talented British actor Robert Pattinson, whose disturbing stare now dominates downtown billboards advertising the new film. As a Prince of Darkness flying the flag for Britain, Pattison is not alone. His British colleague Stephen Moyer has proved a tremendous hit as the tormented blood-sucker Bill Compton in HBO’s series True Blood, whilst Kate Beckinsale, as Selene in the Underworld franchise, shows British women are equally adept at vampyric horror."
Is the special relationship now so mundane that the ambassador spends his whole time watching TV with his teenage daughters?
On a personal note however - Kate Beckinsale, yes!
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What about Spike in Buffy?
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to clarify from 18
I mean obviously that he was another British vampire .... not that he was a follow on suggestion to Kate Beckinsale as top vamp.
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British actors are popular here because 1) there are some mighty fine British actors and 2) Americans love the accent.
That said, the scariest movie vampire I've ever seen was Jack Palance as Dracula. Those wide cheekbones of his fit the role perfectly and his performance was so scary it gave me nightmares. Sorry, Christopher Lee.
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18. At 11:32pm on 18 Nov 2009, RomeStu wrote:
What about Spike in Buffy?
James Marsters is, of course, American. But I'm guessing the reason they made the character British is for the same reason they made Angel Irish. They had to come from somewhere "exotic" and both countries have histories most Americans know something about. Saying they came from Iowa or Detroit just wouldn't have the same ring to it.
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"To me, the American vampire tradition reached its high with Anne Rice's sometimes magnificent Vampire Chronicles."
You've obviously missed Buffy - The Vampire Slayer. Apart from being among the best TV shows of all time, it also features one Spike, a Brit vampire, and all-around fantastic character.
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15. At 11:15pm on 18 Nov 2009, cjwd wrote:
I was going to attempt an intelligent comment about British stereotypes in American media but for some reason all that comes to mind is The Benny Hill Show and Red Dwarf.
Don't forget Roger Rees playing Lord John Marbury in The West Wing. That was definitely a stereotype of the British upper-crust. Brilliant, urbane, well dressed and witty, but also usually half drunk and very lazy.
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Mark,
Your point about vampires being meticulous dressers made me remember my brother's comments on vampires.
"If vampires can't see themselves in mirrors, then how come they always have perfectly combed hair?"
and
"If the only way to kill a vampire is to plunge a wooden stake through his heart, well then, that doesn't necessarily prove to me that he was a vampire. You know, I would think that a stake through the heart would pretty much kill anyone."
Anyway, I'm sure the reason why British or eastern European actors tend to be used as vampires is to keep it closer to the folklore and original Dracula books. Vampires with an American accent just wouldn't seem as mysterious/believable to us.
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Wait just a Minute!!
I've thought of one more movie and a couple of TV shows that show the British for what they really are...human beings!!
And those are the movie '"Burn After Reading" (very funny) and the shows "Friends" (the character of Emily) and "Frasier" (the character of Dafny.) As far as I know, they weren't secret female vampires.
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RomeStu #17: '"Is the special relationship now so mundane that the ambassador spends his whole time watching TV with his teenage daughters?"
Yes I see what you mean. That is a little odd.
But regarding the pandora's box of the "special relationship" (which my opinions of are seemingly never listened to anyway,) perhaps we got a little tired of squabbling over troop numbers in Afghanistan, climate change combatance, and the Lockerbie bomber's release, so the ambassador decided to lighten the mood by posting things on his blog pertaining to our shared culture. Not that I blame him, I'm sure everyone talks to their colleagues about non work-related issues from time to time, but managing international relations are where judging when and when not to do so gets a little trickyer.
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Hilarious.
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We are, of course, huge fans of Kate Beckinsale (from her very debut); she made Underworld watchable. Actually the story-telling is a huge part of the success: Underworld was rather well-written; besides, that impeccable training that enables them to deliver even rather weakly written lines...
As for Gary Oldman, well: genius. Immortal Beloved was one of the ten best films of the past couple of decades, in my book. And not just for the music.
Drifting away from the undead genre, very much looking forward to the next Richard Curtis sensation. The trailers look superb.
An upside of the crowded world is all the talent that manages to turn up, regardless of hurdles and the din of rivalries -- and not only from beyond the grave.
And remarkable what an eye & ear for talent the very young often have!
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#14. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "But no one has ever really replaced Richard Burton, who replaced Rex Harrison, who replaced Sir Laurence Olivier as the quintessential Brit for American audiences."
And I thought it was Alec Guinness! I'd include Noel Coward as well.
#17. RomeStu: "Having followed the link to the British ambassador's blog I'm a little confused about a couple of things - why does an ambassador need a blog?"
Why does anyone in the Foreign & Commonwealth, including David Milliband, need to maintain a blog? Is it all an act in order to appear more "relevant"? The ambassador's opinions about vampires-on-screen hardly amount to a hill-of-beans, let alone meaningful cultural dialogue. Stick to diplomacy, Nigel.
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"They tend to have an aristocratic bearing and rather cynical detachment."
And then there's True Blood. Vampire trash.
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What about Arthur Notfaroutoe, the lower middle class greengrocer/fruiterer and reluctant vampire in Terry Pratchett's Reaper man?
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The reason that the English (Home Counties only, really) and
not Scots (lovable, fond of distillates),
not Irish (lovable, witty and fond of distillates), and
not Welsh (Americans can't tell the difference, and can't understand the accent - same goes for Yorkshiremen - only cast in comedies)
are so often villains is that Hollywood is either afraid to, or doesn't want to try a number of alternatives:
Villainous Jew? (Are you kidding! No more Hyman Roth.)
Villainous Arab or moslem of any kind? (Ditto)
Evil Chinese? Not since "Wo Fat".
Black Guy? X-nay.
Mexican? Nope. No more "Badges? We don't need no stinking badges."
Australians? No. Aussies are permanently type-cast as real-man heros or impossibly good looking women.
Canadians? Too dull and worthy - like the Mountie in "The Untouchables" - most Americans can't tell the difference anyway.
Scandinavians? Dutch? Dream on. The modern production code wouldn't allow it for a minute. (They also supply the impossibly good looking women characters if Australians can't be squeezed into the story.)
The French? Getting warmer: They can be Le Chiffre, in a story written for an earlier generation, or "poncy hairdressers" and drug abusing royal-heir-bad-news boyfriends as in the West Wing.
Heartless sadistic Germans can be villains only if you are making a holocaust remembrance film.
It used to be acceptable to cast Germans as merciless, scar-faced U-boat captains, or as generic villains if they were going to be killed by Lee Marvin or Charles Bronson, but that is passe: U-boat captains are now doomed, troubled souls vainly struggling for the fatherland against hopeless odds.
Russians can be villains if it's a cold war flick, or if their role is to tempt James Bond into bed.
So, eventually, that leaves the English.
Absolutely no danger casting them as villains.
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#32. Interestedforeigner: "Absolutely no danger casting (the English) as villains."
I can only assume you never saw Ian Richardson as Francis Urquhart, a villain if ever there was one. Even his wife, Elizabeth Urquart (Diane Fletcher), knew that and organised his assassination.
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Hey how come no gals are mentioned? My early horror days are filled with images of Elsa Manchester in Bride of Frankenstein with that spooky wild hairdo. I don't think she's from Manchester but that accent sounded awfully British to me. Marty Feldman made such a wonderful British humback/cum Igor in Young "Frankensteen"! Let's face it, you lot were to the sci-fi horror genre born. All us Yanks are a little more scardy cat because of it.
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First an foremost. The best vampire movie since the turn of the century is the Swedish made Let The Right One In. That movie really mixes up the genre in a way it hasn't been since the eighties. Not too mention that it is very creepy. I highly suggest checking it out if you haven't seen it. Top notch.
Oh the British. The British are really the only Europeans that Americans feel they understand and that's largely because British culture serves as something of a bridge between American culture and European culture. It's unsurprising that we have closer ties with Britain than with any other European country and the sort of loyalty in our political relationship is a huge relief when the rest of the world snubs us off.
In general, British actors are not usually villains in American movies. Generally they fill a sort of sidekick role that provides some much needed diversity to largely single-minded American heroes. You can look at a movie like Ocean's Eleven that had a single token British man. He played a very intelligent, technical, and cultured role compared to the rest of the American which erred on the side of swindlers that got by more on their talent and ease of character than any real intellect. Of course to put down any sort of speculation, the British character could never accomplish what the American hero can because they lack the ingenuity, charisma, audacity, and personal drive.
When the British do play villains they play a villain that is strong and intelligent. The sort of villain that you respect. Darth Vader, for example, if he had a nationality, would be British. A far cry from the Russian megalomaniac scoundrel, Middle eastern fanatical terrorist, or super-rich corrupt Chinese businessman.
More hip renditions of the British show them as swanky, cheeky, and rather amoral. See a movie like Trainspotting or Snatch for examples. The portrayal is a sort of dirty European that attracts Americans in a sort of care-free badboy way. Europe is an old dirty place that has been around long enough to become accustomed to some of its darker aspects. Unlike American badboys that always have a big heart and good intentions underneath their rough exterior, British badboys tend to be much more opportunistic and Machiavellian.
Finally, the British must always have bad teeth, speak nearly unintelligibly, and can probably recite Shakespeare at will.
Much more interesting than American portrayals of the British which haven't changed all that significantly over the years are British portrayals of themselves. British self-image has changed drastically over the past half century and your cinema has evolved right along with it. The high empire days of the sixties well encapsulated in movies like the original Italian Job or The Ruling Class showed a proud and strong Britain with a dry but farcical sense of humor and deep respect for the ruling aristocracy (that came off often as hilariously absurd irreverence). Today's British cinema still maintains all of these aspects but they are much more tempered and cynical.
British humor is one Britain's finest contributions to modern global culture over the last century. It pokes fun at the absurdity of aristocracy and civility but always with the utmost respect. It tends to be dry yet completely off the wall. The legendary Flying Circus and its modern incarnation in Little Britain are shining examples of British humor at its best. All of British cultural export (from movies to tv shows to music) is rife with this laughing cynical societal critique. Unlike British humor that generally targets the aristocracy, American humor targets the base common man. American humor therefore tends to be more crude, forward and boisterous. There's nothing wrong with that but it is a nice change of pace to experience a humor that takes a little more effort and insight to appreciate. The Ruling Class for example has more references to classical literature, British history, and contemporary (for the time) British culture as the basis for its jokes than I could even begin to list and all of them cleverly concealed in metaphorical satire and witty dialogue.
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InterestedForeigner (#32) "not Welsh (Americans can't tell the difference, and can't understand the accent ... "
I beg to differ. American filmgoers know that Richard Burton, for example, is Welsh.
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33. At 02:20am on 19 Nov 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#32. Interestedforeigner: "Absolutely no danger casting (the English) as villains."
I can only assume you never saw Ian Richardson as Francis Urquhart, a villain if ever there was one. Even his wife, Elizabeth Urquart (Diane Fletcher), knew that and organised his assassination.
__________
"You may well think so, but I couldn't possibly comment."
__________
Such a deliciously evil villain, too - very much the modern Richard III, played with all the breadth and depth and range of a true Shakespearean actor; and she, as sweet and innocent as ... Lady MacBeth.
However, that was a BBC production.
The topic today is how Americans, i.e., Hollywood, portrays villains.
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29. At 01:26am on 19 Nov 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
And I thought it was Alec Guinness!
Nope. Never considered a great romantic leading man in American films - as Burton, Harrison and even Olivier were until they died. He also wasn't ever the first Brit considered for a role in a big Hollywood production whenever a Brit was required. Actually, after Michael Caine, Patrick Stewart comes closest to that in recent years, but since his work here has mostly been in the SciFi genre, he isn't considered for many of the parts he really ought to be. Same for Hugh Grant. Too many romantic comedies, so no one thinks he has any real depth as an actor. Jude Law might eventually win the quintessential Brit sweepstakes, but it will take many more years before anyone knows for sure.
I'd include Noel Coward as well.
The actor? ;~)
Seriously, Noel Coward is wonderful, but these days he's an acquired taste for most American audiences. It was hard enough getting my niece's fiance to learn to appreciate Doctor Who. And even then she had to turn on the English subtitles for him so he could understand what was being said. Not to mention translating the slang and pop culture references.
On the other hand, perhaps I'll rent Blithe Spirit with Rex Harrison for Thanksgiving and see how he does with that. Maybe there's hope for the lad after all...
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There's a great example of typecasting Brits as villains in FlashForward, a new show that's been on for a few weeks here.
The love triangle at the center of the show is played by three British actors (Joe Fiennes, Sonya Walger and Jack Davenport). But only Jack Davenport talks with the voice we know from Coupling; the other two use American accents.
And of course, Jack is the one who just killed 20,000,000 people.
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32. At 01:55am on 19 Nov 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:
Hollywood is either afraid to, or doesn't want to try a number of alternatives
You must not watch television much. NCIS, for example, uses all those stock characters - although the villainous Jew is usually an Israeli and the Chinese are often North Korean.
Still, that's a lot of generalizing, albeit very funny and somewhat true. Personally, I think it's just that of all the accents around, British English is easiest on the American ear. It comes down to the fact that if you want a "foreign" sounding character that your audience can understand, you hire a Brit. Even when you want him to play an East German villain, like Jeremy Irons in Die Hard 3.
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For many Americans John Cleese has become a quintessential Briton.
And after "Life of Brian" many of us have noticed that not only Roman emperors and generals speak with strong British accent, but Jewish messiahs and members of Popular Front for Liberation of Judea do as well.
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Mark, you are certainly welcome down here in New Orleans. There's no place quite like it if you aim to be fed and entertained. The architecture and the European style grid is a wonder to see as well.
I would recommend you visit the Vieux Carré & go over the top of the levee to see the river; I would also recommend you visit Audubon Park, City Park, & the lake front-you'll see much of the city along the way.
Just don't be surprised if it is still painfully obvious to you that many of the non-touristy areas are still in recovery mode.
As for American stereotypes of British people, I would say that I'm too young to know about the vampire link; I always think of vampires as being Romanian, Hungarian, or gothic looking. The rotten or crooked teeth stereotype I'm aware of, of course Yankees say that about Southerners too, but it’s considered to be sexier to be European than Southern.
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#38. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "(Alec Guinness) was never considered a great romantic leading man in American films - as Burton, Harrison and even Olivier were until they died."
You didn't specify romantic leads, just a "quintessential Brit for American audiences". Sir Alec was a far better actor than his contemporaries, with the possible exception of John ("Arthur") Gielgud.
"He also wasn't ever the first Brit considered for a role in a big Hollywood production whenever a Brit was required."
Ever see Bridge on the River Kwai? Or Lawrence of Arabia? But possibly those don't count.
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I've often wondered why Jack Sparrow had to sound English, as well. But Johnny Depp does sound pretty convincing; at least he doesn't parody our accent . . .even if he does sound a bit posh for a pirate.
35. At 02:54am on 19 Nov 2009, tpapp157 wrote:
"Darth Vader, for example, if he had a nationality, would be British."
Well, um, he was, wasn't he?
38. At 03:02am on 19 Nov 2009, Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:
"t was hard enough getting my niece's fiance to learn to appreciate Doctor Who. And even then she had to turn on the English subtitles for him. . ."
Dr Who has English subtitles in the US? Oh.
17. RomeStu
Now, now, if you click on 'Main' on the Ambassador's blog you'll find he's blogged on climate change, low-carbon economy, troops in Afghanistan and relations with Muslims. . .And he doesn't blog very often.
(If I stuck my neck out and quoted some, it'd probably bring our own vampire-in-residence out spitting blood, so I won't.)
Why this American obsession with teeth, anyway? I'm forever reading in American detective thrillers about characters--usually somewhat villainous--with 'underbites' and overbites and heaven knows what other kinds of dentistry. . .They eat a lot, too.
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Now I'm confused... Vampires who have less than perfect teeth?
Actually, I'd like to be a Vampire Dentist. I can see it now:
"Your bite is good, but the two front ones have got to go."
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Mark:" One film, based in New Orleans, a city I long to visit and which seems to provide just the right gothic background."
PursuitOfLove: “Oh yeah? Well when you get there be sure to ask about the free health clinic held there this past weekend, treating those without health insurance because they could either not afford it or were dropped by their health insurance provider for selfish reasons. Then tell me how the NHS would have handled this quandary please? Because I think I'm forgetting.”
PursuitOfLove, are you by chance talking about this article from the Times-Picayune?
Free clinic exposes real health care needs in New Orleans
By C.J. Lin, The Times-Picayune
November 14, 2009
It does highlight a real problem in the city that is compounded by the spat between FEMA & the state over the now closed Charity Hospital.
State authorities assert that Charity was more than 50% damaged by Katrina, & that FEMA owes the "full replacement value" of the building which is $492 million.
But FEMA puts the damage at a paltry $124 million, & has so graciously offered to settle the matter for $150 million because FEMA argues that most of the damage was due to poor maintenance of the depression era building.
The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth for sure.
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43. At 04:54am on 19 Nov 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
You didn't specify romantic leads, just a "quintessential Brit for American audiences". Sir Alec was a far better actor than his contemporaries, with the possible exception of John ("Arthur") Gielgud.
This isn't about who's the better actor, it's about audience perception. And romantic lead is another way of saying dramatic lead that women love to watch - and drag their men folk to see. Lawrence of Arabia wasn't technically a romance, but Peter O'Toole was the romantic lead. More people (as opposed to film buffs) will remember Peter O'Toole for the movie than will ever remember Sir Alec.
Ever see Bridge on the River Kwai? Or Lawrence of Arabia? But possibly those don't count.
Of course I've seen them, but it's not necessarily the quality of the script or the size of the budget that counts. Olivier had other passions and left Hollywood (although he did some work late in life and was still worshiped as a true star), but Burton and Harrison made dozens of films with lead actor roles over several decades. They never lost their star power at the box office and could always command an audience no matter what the film. I'm not saying they were better actors, I'm saying the perception in Hollywood is that if you want to make a successful film, you hire a specific actor and neither Guinness nor Gielgud were going to get the first call.
Of course, that may be because Hollywood considered both these men too great to play roles in silly films that weren't Oscar worthy. They probably thought they'd never lower themselves to do anything but great drama. Their loss. (Btw, you should have heard the chatter when Sir Alec took the role of Obi-wan. I think a number of Hollywood casting agents nearly died of shock.) But as I said, it's perception that counts - along with name recognition. And I'm sorry, but growing up in an American household, while my parents knew exactly who Gielgud and Guinness were, they didn't grab us kids and head out to the cinema for any of their films just because they were in them. And nobody would ever have considered them for the lead in My Fair Lady, which went to Rex Harrison because he was so quintessentially British.
And just to throw all that I've written up in the air: British actress Vivien Leigh became the quintessential Southern belle for her performance in Gone With The Wind. Because it can sometimes take only one performance that will be remembered forever to make someone the quintessential anything here. Go figure.
41. At 04:29am on 19 Nov 2009, powermeerkat wrote:
And after "Life of Brian" many of us have noticed that not only Roman emperors and generals speak with strong British accent, but Jewish messiahs and members of Popular Front for Liberation of Judea do as well.
Interesting, I thought that would be after Rex Harrison played Caesar and Richard Burton played Mark Anthony in Cleopatra. I've always imagined ancient Roman generals and emperors spoke with a British accent.
44. At 04:56am on 19 Nov 2009, squirrellist wrote:
Dr Who has English subtitles in the US? Oh.
The DVDs do.
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I know there are plenty of British "baddies" in American films, but I think many of us have a lot of positive associations as well-- most British accents, for instance, and by extension their speakers, register with us as classy, well-mannered, educated, suave, etc. Even the bad guys usually are the clever, well-dressed ones, atleast in my experience. Not to mention that there are some fantastic British characters in American films and also there have been several films in the last few years with Brits as the main characters and/or heroes.
I understand being bothered- I teach English in eastern Europe right now and all the the textbooks are from the UK. Out of four 'speakers' in one listening lesson about shopping, who was the dumb, shallow-sounding one? The American. From another lesson in the same book there was a couple who made caricatures of GW Bush sound like an actual person. It happens both ways-- sure I get annoyed, sometimes quite annoyed, but I think most Brits probably know that stereotypes like that are bogus, just like most Americans do in the reverse situation.
I am sorry about Twilight, however, but that's because it's a lame story and it will probably get Pattinson a lot more acting jobs in the future in spite of itself, thereby making the most drooled after actor among the tween set a Brit. Is that much to complain about?
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42. At 04:32am on 19 Nov 2009, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
The rotten or crooked teeth stereotype I'm aware of, of course Yankees say that about Southerners too
We do? I've never heard that one. Slow witted and oversexed, yeah, but nothing about teeth. Honest. Not ever.
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After Cambridge Five scandal and "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy" yet another uflattering stereotype of an upper class Briton has embedded itself in an American collective psyche. And it had nothing to do with lack of good teeth by the protagonists.
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48. At 06:04am on 19 Nov 2009, Nzie12 wrote:
"thereby making the most drooled after actor among the tween set a Brit. Is that much to complain about?"
Not as long as some of it rubs off on the rest of us :-D
Or should that be :-] ?
(When they grow up, maybe I should hasten to add. Given our apparent reputation for villainy. Don't want to give the wrong impression.)
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Sorry Mark
but you live in the US courtesy of the UK license payer therefore any reflection that you may have are baised!!!
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Gavrielle and Bienvenue, you are both confusing the South with the Appalachian
region.
Just because they play the banjo does not make them more fertile than
the local gene pool can provide.
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Sq, Twilight sounds a bit like a cross between The Blue Lagoon
and Night of the Living Dead , you sly villianous devil.
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At 10:01pm on 18 Nov 2009, PursuitOfLove wrote:
First, what's wrong with Margret Thatcher?
Er, she had the audacity to put thousands of miners, dockers and many more out of work regardless of the morality. She even stopped free milk for school children. She focused her efforts on creating a service industry at the expense of many families - the rich where not affected by the poll tax whilst the poor were. I fear you a right about one thing - portraying Margaret Thatcher as a vampire is extremely apt.
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53. At 06:31am on 19 Nov 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:
Just because they play the banjo does not make them more fertile than
the local gene pool can provide.
Well, not if they're going to spend their days hunting businessmen on rafting holidays. I'd think they'd want to find some young nubile girl-woman to kidnap and take up into them thar hills. Ned Beatty never struck me as very fertile in the way they might have imagined he was.
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Ha-ha! Maybe you're on to something Mark. But remember Drac is a count from Romania? When you're dealing with a largely monolingual American audience, how "exotic" can you get and still deliver an English-speaking product?
That said, "American Werewolf" turned the tables with an American "boy next door type" ravaging London. A ripping good movie. The "In Paris" sequel was as pitiful as the John Landis original was good, despite the lovely French-born Julie Delpy as the loup-garou.
Perhaps no one can be supernatural in his hometown?
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Blood suckers do you say and business wise you will take them to the cleaners?
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Oh dear....Twilight, another teen movie/show promoting necrophilia...after all Vampires are strictly speaking dead (OK Undead, same difference)...and really do consider us as little more than an entrée. Any interest a Vampire would show in a mortal is predatory not amorous.
I don't really agree with the analogy that Brits are mostly cast as villains with bad teeth...what about the Bond films? George Lazenby aside, they are to a man, British, heroic, rogue-ish, funny and have a mean right cross and surprise, surprise, have good teeth.
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'Any interest a Vampire would show in a mortal is predatory not amorous.'
Not true - In 'Let the Right One In', Eli's feelings towards Oskar were that of friendship & as near to love as a vampire can manage ( I imagine, as they ... er, don't actually exist ).
Anyway, that's a Swedish film, so the US rules of vampirism don't apply.
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At 9:36pm on 18 Nov 2009, colonelartist wrote:
Vampirism should be banned.
**********
Hmmm...for some reason, the Bauhaus song "Terror Couple Kill Colonel"
comes to mind. (bet Bauhaus were also vampires)
The Brits are brilliant at portraying vamps because they're sexy as hell.
Vampirism is not real, I suggest so Colonel go get a life...
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#47. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "romantic lead is another way of saying dramatic lead that women love to watch - and drag their men folk to see."
There is far more to film-making than romance! By the way, Olivier "left Hollywood" because of World War II and was essentially a stage actor, not a creature of Hollywood. Vivien Leigh wasn't in his league despite her success as Scarlett.
"And nobody would ever have considered them for the lead in My Fair Lady, which went to Rex Harrison because he was so quintessentially British.
No, he played the part on film because, although a marquee name, he had starred in the original productions on Broadway and in the West End. (Marquee in the US sense, not British.)
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It seems that those whom run government sponsored public radio stations in the USA like the crisp English voice. The BBC News is brought into the USA. A Englishman dictating news in the USA is quite a twist.
Control of what is said on these government sponsored medias follows the old school of propaganda, too ridged provoking a predetermined dialog that only says what a government wants to hear from their people. The world is getting smaller and everyone is being infected with controlled information. Using a English voice and dialect to say it, is hoped that it will more willingly be accepted.
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I meant what I said for you that think you have the upper hand. You wish to bad name yourself then go ahead. I will run upon that line. Have never seen a Louisiana hog dog? It's a trained gator boy. Now who puts a bite on you.
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59. At 07:19am on 19 Nov 2009, MegaSpur wrote:
"Oh dear....Twilight, another teen movie/show promoting necrophilia."
Good lord, it's a Hollywood genre? We in the Red Squirrel Party were not aware, since obviously we do not support capitalist Hollywood film-making in any way. We only watch low-budget art movies with subtitles that lose money.
However, I think you may have the wrong end of the stake here; as I understand it, the object of the vampire's attentions is usually alive. Whereas-----(no, maybe I'd better avoid further explanations; there's probably something in the rules about referring to Havelock Ellis.)
One has read the original Dracula story, but of course vampires may have travelled a different evolutionary path since reaching California. (Or New Jersey,) Everything else does.
"The Brits are brilliant at portraying vamps because they're sexy as hell." (Someone wrote, only I lost track of it.)
Aaaaaaah. How nice. (Wish I'd never let on I'm only half British now. . .)
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oh come on there is got to be some government sponsored snipe somewhere..
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Such a alarming topic to feel out the public to test the waters. Your going to get all kinds of answers those who will use both sword and pitch forks to either attack you or support you. It doesn't matter you just don't know the people lifelong I have to deal with. Lord God are you for a surprise.
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some wierd and wonderfulness in these posts - from the patronising Menedemus (the wink does not excuse it) - to the lack of understanding about how white American vampires might have to be European (if not English/Irish) to have had the hundreds of years of vampire backstory....(is there a native american vampire in 'literature'?)
Personally i found Tom Cruise unconvincing, but James Masters sa Spike, and the Lost Boys remian firm favourites!
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Sorry everybody, can't help it.
KingLeeRoySandersJr -- do you believe in the tooth fairy too?
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68. highbrow:
Bats?
(I presume you mean 'home-grown American literature"?)
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36 gary
"I beg to differ. American filmgoers know that Richard Burton, for example, is Welsh."
Without any prejudice, Gary, I respectfully submit that an exit poll at any cinema of your choice would find very few people (especially under 50) who know where or what Wales is, let alone that Richard Burton was one.
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"...tickled by the way we are portrayed in popular American media...."
I for one am NOT. The British are portayed as crooks, sly, underhand and not to be trusted. Perhaps you would like to write a SERIOUS piece on how the popular media influences individuals in society by the constant reinforcement of steriotypes. Who has the real power I wonder?
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I am not for any governments propaganda Hollywood and etc.. I am the anesthesiologist who wakes you from you from your deepest sleep but I did not put you under. I have nothing but truth on my agenda and as far as I am concerned no one takes first place if it isn't for everyone. Vampires you find your followers. I just don't want to follow anyone. I can live my own life and sure don't need anyones help thank you please. What ever geographic location you exist from don't be anything other than your self don't let no one tell you what you are but you.
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I believe there are good and bad people in the world and for as much as there are good people there are bad people as well. But neither know what each other are to each other. The good or the bad.
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No one seems to have given a mention to Anthony Hopkins - who made a definitive job of bringing a different type of villain to the big screen.
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GavLaP # 40 :
I have always thought that Hugh Grant should get away from those schmatzy comedies and take on a sinister baddie role. I'm sure he's got it in him to sneer as well as smirk.
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Genius post mark, personally I love the sterotype around vampires and the whole mythology of them, theres just something about any supernatural being that straight away is going to be great.
For your next post, can I suggest that you look into either werewolfs, or zombies? I know technically are a altogether different type of film but there have still been some brilliant castings in those films, the best in my opinion being Robert Caryle in 28 Weeks Later (which technically isn't a zombie film but hey).
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And where is DC's message of thanks to MM for taking us outside our usual shouty politics and into other aspects of US/Brit culture?
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Alarming yes maybe, Governments were meant for the healing of a people and not to dominate the world. But today that is what they want to do, the impossible and they have failed at it miserably. They turn nation against nation and race against race and they only end up with war. When they can war no more there is peace and being so weak they are feeble and not knowing what they have done.
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69 squirrellist
Doh! You fed it .....
and this one is clearly more of a basket case than the usual batch.
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#32
Two words. Die Hard
Granted, Mr.Rickman is English, but the character he portrayed was unequivocally Teutonic.
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72. At 09:10am on 19 Nov 2009, urnestview wrote:
"...tickled by the way we are portrayed in popular American media...."I for one am NOT"
Some of us have to put up with cracks about beheaded horses and concrete overshoes and stuff as well. . .If I hear that phrase about an offer I can't refuse one more time. . . .
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62. At 08:08am on 19 Nov 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
There is far more to film-making than romance!
Of course there is, but I'm speaking in the older sense of the word as opposed to love and kisses. You know, like sailing solo around the world is a romantic adventure. The great sweeping drama of it is romantic.
By the way, Olivier "left Hollywood" because of World War II and was essentially a stage actor, not a creature of Hollywood.
Yes, he did. And as I said, he had other passions, like founding the National Theatre. Of course, after he was forced out as director of the theater he returned to making Hollywood movies in the 1970s and was very successful. And by that time one didn't have to live in Hollywood to work for Hollywood. The studio system was dead.
Vivien Leigh wasn't in his league despite her success as Scarlett.
For some reason you seem to think that superlative talent ought to have something to do with becoming famous and well remembered in the US. And while I would agree with you, unfortunately, Hollywood does not agree with us. Vivien Leigh's performance, regardless of whether Bette Davis (who also tested for the role) was the better actress, became the standard to which every other depiction of a classic "Southern belle" was later compared. By the same token, no one will probably ever be able to portray Moses without being compared to Charlton Heston. Just as John Wayne, who was a wonderful dramatic and comedic actor will always be remembered as the quintessential American cowboy. I'm sorry if all this offends your sensibilities, but that's just the way it is.
No, he played the part on film because, although a marquee name, he had starred in the original productions on Broadway and in the West End. (Marquee in the US sense, not British.)
That's not how it always works in the US. Marnee Nixon, who played Eliza opposite Harrison on stage, lost the part to Audrey Hepburn, who couldn't sing to save her life and had to have her songs voiced by Nixon. You'll know Marnee's work as well from West Side Story and Mary Poppins where she voiced for Natalie Wood and Julie Andrews, respectively. Nixon was equally famous, if not more so, in her own right, but the powers that be decided the camera didn't love her face, while everyone else loved her voice. And none of the original 1960 Broadway cast of Camelot made it to the film version in 1967. Richard Burton, Julie Andrews and Robert Goulet were all passed over in favor of Richard Harris, Vanessa Redgrave and Franco Nero. If Hollywood had decided they wanted someone else to play the role of Professor Higgins instead of Harrison, they'd have cast someone else. I could name a dozen other instances where similar casting changes happened - and still happen. Getting the lead in a big show on Broadway doesn't necessarily mean you'll be in the movie, even if you are (as Richard Burton and Julie Andrews were by 1967) a marquee name in the American, not British sense.
By the way, did you happen to see Ian McKellen, Tim Curry or Jane Seymour in the film Amadeus - even though McKellen and Curry both won Tony Awards for Best Actor in the stage version when it transferred to Broadway? Nope. We got F. Murray Abraham, Tom Hulce and Elizabeth Berridge instead.
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80. At 09:32am on 19 Nov 2009, RomeStu wrote:"69 squirrellist Doh! You fed it ..... "
Sorry 'bout that. (My nutty choccie bars are now being rationed as punishment. The Party said if I couldn't take more care over my topics, they'd have to do it for me. Sigh.)
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Hey don't knock it......
Some of our best actors are making a good living out of playing villains in the U.S.A.
What does annoy me though, talking to friends in the U.S.A., is that they all assume we live in palatial stately mansions. They are often confused and bewildered when they visit the U.K. and find that most people live in poverty
Where are the mansions?
The beautifully groomed lawns?
The horse and carriages?
I think it is great when I see a good British actor playing a villain against some American 'no-body' trying to act the hero.
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Nope not going to say any more so let the babble continue. But if I too find a point, I just might join in.
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75. At 09:25am on 19 Nov 2009, wanderingangus wrote:
No one seems to have given a mention to Anthony Hopkins - who made a definitive job of bringing a different type of villain to the big screen.
It's the middle of the night and I'm up with a painful sinus infection, did you really have to mention him? Now I'll never get to sleep! More drugs. No fava beans. Definitely no Chianti!
I have always thought that Hugh Grant should get away from those schmatzy comedies and take on a sinister baddie role. I'm sure he's got it in him to sneer as well as smirk.
I'm not so sure. Have you seen his mug shot? If that's the best he can do... Well, if he'd looked a little more dangerous, rather than embarrassed and uncomfortable, he might have gotten a good baddie part out of it. Everything's an audition in Hollywood. But looking so, well, dweebish, he'd probably have to set up his own production company and option the script himself - like Julia Roberts did - to get more serious roles.
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A pleasure, thank you. 5:05 AM
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Actually, I can see a point (made from a certain quarter I'd better not mention now or I'll never be allowed a chocolate wholenut bar again) though not the one intended.
If you've got an English accent (we'd better stress that it is actually what most people are talking about rather than Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Indian, Pakistani or Caribbean) you might be 'more credible' in some US media. I've heard that one before, but as far as news media goes I think if it's true at all, it's to do more with the way we're trained into a somewhat different way of communicating.
(We're used to cramming as much information and detail into as short a space as possible. I've always been jealous of American colleagues allowedt twice or four times as much space for magazine articles or news pieces as me. We seldom get to allowed more than 150 or 400 words; 1200, or just a couple of pages, for us is luxurious. I've noticed British reporters in US media--broadcast as well as print--tend to be more concise than their American counterparts.
Just a thought. (Seeing as I can't do films much.)
But making vampires more credible? Hmm.
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Dont forget Kenneth Brangh bringing Shakespere to a new audience. I can never get tired of his Crispen day's speech.
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87. At 09:58am on 19 Nov 2009, Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:
"Well, if he'd looked a little more dangerous, rather than embarrassed and uncomfortable, he might have gotten a good baddie part out of it. . .But looking so, well, dweebish"
Hmm. Have you seen the pictures of Dr Crippen? (Richard Attenborough will substitute of course, if not. . .) I can think of one or two other portrayals of people who -- given other names -- people wouldn't look twice at. But I don't want to see us going down the rathole again. But did you see Kenneth Branagh in Conspiracy? I think it was shown in the USA.
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David,
And I thought it was Alec Guinness! I'd include Noel Coward as well."
James Mason?
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90. At 10:35am on 19 Nov 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
"Dont forget Kenneth Brangh bringing Shakespere to a new audience. I can never get tired of his Crispen day's speech."
Olivier's makes me wince . . .Not sure that counts though. Mostly does the good guys. I think we're supposed to ignore them.
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Shrub and his Poodle, springs unbidden to mind.....
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I always wondered why we Brits get to play "baddies" this perception helps to explain. It even happens in cartoons .
Or is is that we just have great character actors?
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Gavrielle,
Quite appropriate, methinks. And how come nobody's mentioned "the archetypical Englishman", David Niven, who incidentally was born in Auchtermuchty, Pertthshire, Scotland?
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Guns,
Are you mistaking the Ozarks for the Appalachians?
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Until 9/11 Brits were usually portrayed as upper class terrorists in US films. To be fair I'd rather we were terrorists than totally ignored though... the trend for Hollywood of claiming all British achievement to be American (Battle of Britain, D-Day invasion, capturing the enigma machine etc) was extremely offensive.
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# 28 maria-ashot wrote:
"Drifting away from the undead genre, very much looking forward to the next Richard Curtis sensation. The trailers look superb."
I assume you are referring to Pirate Radio, which was released in the UK as The Boat That Rocked?
I must say I found it very disappointing, especially when compared to some of Curtis's other work, eg 4 Weddings, Notting Hill, the wonderful Blackadder [Series 2-4].
Here's a link to rottentomatoes.com - http://ie.rottentomatoes.com/m/boat_that_rocked/
They find all the reviews they can of a film and give it a score depending on the % of good ones.
A few of the choicer comments - "‘The Ship That Sank’ would be a more appropriate title...", "structurally messy, endlessly repetitious...". [In fairness, some critics did like it - they found 21 good reviews and 18 bad.]
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Mr. Mardell, you have found the perfect metaphor to describe Britain's and the rest of Europe's relationship to the United States of America. The dead surviving off the blood of the living. How lucky America is to be armed with an arsenal of crucifixes, garlic, and wooden stakes. I'll bet it would take a stake made from a giant 300 foot Sequoia Redwood to drive one through the black heart of the EU and put it out of its misery of being the walking undead. Or how about America just pulls up its stakes and quits Europe lock stock and barrel. Go use Linux.
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# 76 wanderingangus wrote:
"I have always thought that Hugh Grant should get away from those schmatzy comedies and take on a sinister baddie role. I'm sure he's got it in him to sneer as well as smirk."
I think HG has been rather stereotyped as the stuttering romantic with the floppy hair, but I think his range is a bit broader than that. AIR, he was a 2-faced cad in the Bridget Jones films, a doctor/action hero in Extreme Measures, and a fairly nasty piece of work in An Awfully Big Adventure.
Having said that, I can't really see him saying 'So, Mr Bond, we meet at last....'
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100 Marcus
Ahhhh, the witching hour is upon us once more, as your coffin creaks open....
"How lucky America is to be armed with an arsenal of crucifixes, garlic, and wooden stakes"
These were presumably stockpiled under the Bush administration while they were secretly planning the "war on vampires". The crucifixes seem to be already fairly well distributed across the nation, but when will they be handing out the stakes and garlic to prepare for the coming bloodbath.
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# 102 MarcusAureliusII :
Or alternatively....
"Mr. Mardell, you have found the perfect metaphor to describe MAII's relationship to this blog. The dead surviving off the blood of the living. How lucky we are to be armed with an arsenal of crucifixes, garlic, and wooden stakes. I'll bet it would take a stake made from a giant 300 foot Sequoia Redwood to drive one through the black heart of MAII and put him out of his misery of being the walking undead."
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There is a noble tradition of British actors playing the bad guy in Hollywood films. The reasons are probably complex but I tend to boil this down into two basic areas. Firstly, British actors tend to be less worried about their wider public image and are unafraid to play the roles of unpleasant people...these being generally more challenging than the mono-dimensional heroic roles.
The second point is that Americans in general appear to be unable to deal with the idea of a British actor (barring possibly one with Scottish accent) from playing in a "heroic" role. This seems to be rooted in a maze of deep-seated fears and prejudices, some to do with a highly distorted view of the Revolutionary War (which is why British actors are used for devious and treacherous roles) but mostly as a result of the British being the benchmark against which many American males measure their own virility.
Middle America, and in particular the testosterone overloaded 15 - 25 year old males who make up the bulk of cinema audiences are incapable of handling themes that show the USA in a poor light. You only need think of the reaction to The Quiet American in recent times to recognize this! Despite so much of American culture having anglocentric roots, the 20th century saw the growth of an American self-image of rugged self-reliance and all round "can-do" competence. In order to highlight this, the British, by necessity have to be identified as weak, vacillating and unreliable. As a result, cricket, which was hugely popular in the USA in the 19th and early 20th Century was vilified as effeminate and "real men" played the altogether more manly game of baseball. In the closing months of the First World War, General Pershing of the US Army wrote excoriating articles about the timidity and inaction of British forces. He ignored the massively painful lessons of the Somme and Paschaendale and launched his forces in ambitious frontal assaults against the highly experienced Germans. The result was a slaughter...a mini "first day on the Somme"...something that American history has downplayed to say the least, as it doesn't quite fit the "template!".
The list can go on and on but the subtext is plain. American national virility is defined by being "not-British!" Hence, a British actor in a heroic role is absolutely out of the question. British actors are allowed to fill roles that conform to the Four "Cs". They can be Criminal. They can be Corrupt (how often have we seen the ludicrous image of Brits playing the part of corrupt officials in American administrations?). They can be Cowardly or finally, they can be C**p! You only have to think of the roles endlessly inflicted on Hugh Grant to illustrate the latter.
Does it matter? Well it tends to come and go. There zenith of anglophobia in Hollywood was in the 1990s with films like the contemptible Braveheart. The Special Relationship kicked back in during the post 9/11 period with films like Master & Commander showing Brits in a brave, positive light (notice though that the lead role was played by an Australian). No doubt the pendulum will swing back at some point but let's enjoy it for a while. In reality, it doesn't matter a damn! We can have a laugh at the adolescents puffing themselves up and believing that the good guy still rides around wearing a white hat. For that, in truth is all that it is!
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Anglophone, Hello!
Are you perhaps referring to the "Scottish accents" attempted by those portraying Rob Roy or William Wallace?
Och aye, That'll be right enough!
;-)
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104 anglophone
"Firstly, British actors tend to be less worried about their wider public image and are unafraid to play the roles of unpleasant people...these being generally more challenging than the mono-dimensional heroic roles."
Are you suggesting that American actors don't credit their home audience with the ability to distinguish between an actor and the character he plays?
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103. John_From_Dublin
I had a suspicion it wouldn't be long before he sniffed us out under the foolish misapprehension this thread was full of his kind. Didn't want to say so before, because I couldn't find a smiley for garlic, and I was a bit doubtful if a cross would work. Still, let's give it a whirl:
+++++++++++++++++MAII+++++++++++++++++++++++
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#44 Squirrellist-
35. At 02:54am on 19 Nov 2009, tpapp157 wrote:
"Darth Vader, for example, if he had a nationality, would be British."
"Well, um, he was, wasn't he?"
Well, yes and no. Darth Vader was a composite of 3 different actors-namely: David Prowse, Sebastian Shaw (was seen unmasked), and the voice of James Earl Jones.
A bit of trivia.
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So are vampires morally equivalent to ordinary human beings?
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I suppose that it is funny up to the point, though having given it a little more thought, the current Hollywood trend towards the American colonisation of history can be quite irksome.
Having watched Saving Private Ryan you would be forgiven for not knowing that British & Canadian forces made up the majority of troops going ashore. U571 and the supposed capture of an Enigma machine by US forces is frankly insulting. In Braveheart, William Wallace as played by the ridiculous Mel Gibson marries a woman born several years after his death! Gibson pops up again in the execrable The Patriot in which his revolutionary zeal is fuelled by the sight of redcoats herding the population of a village into a church and setting it on fire...an act made popular by the Waffen SS some centuries later. There is not a scrap of evidence to suggest that British troops ever did such a thing but hey...why let the facts interfere with a staunchly anglophobic message. Mind you Mel has widened his portfolio of "people who can be hated safely" recently. Something that has got him into a lot of trouble with the US Jewish community.
Sadly, our own film and TV are complicit. British film makers instinctively know that if they are to make money in US markets they must play the game. A BBC drama-documentary covering the D-Day Anniversary duly portrayed the doomed young men on Omaha Beach as granite jawed, flinty-eyed heroes making the supreme sacrifice. British troops going ashore next door are all feckless teenagers speaking like contemporary yoof, cringing in the sand and displaying extreme incompetence. Ultimately this self-reinforcing trend will result in our own people believing this stuff.
Mind you, it's nothing new. I'm old enough to have started my working life with men who had fought in WW2. One, a former navy beach commando told me of his experience of sitting on a beach in North Africa where he had come ashore several days previously. A film unit arrived and set up, followed by a number of landing craft that disgorged US marines onto the beach who proceeded to "capture" the beach in a hail of bullets. Apparently many re-shoots were required as the sound man couldn't muffle the sound of derisive jeering in the background. All the same, it was served up as newsreel fare a few weeks later..."US Forces Land in North Africa!"
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106 RomeStu
...err yes...fraid so. I'm sure that discerning US cinema-goers can distinguish the actor from the role but my thesis was aimed at the mass of 15 - 25 year old who make up the bulk of the movie audience. Historically at least big stars have been unwilling to play roles that are unheroic and might damage their standing with the adoring public. An honourable exception in recent times would be Tom Cruise who, despite suffering from extreme "short-person" syndrome has been unafraid to tackled some pretty unsympathetic characters. Good on him!
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#110. Its a minor thing in the greater sphere of things but one that annoys me greatly: most of the men driving the landing craft that put the Americans on Omaha & Utah beach were driven by Brits. My great uncle lost a leg on Utah after his landing craft hit a submerged anti-tank mine. He wasn't even Royal Navy, but was a civillian tug boat pilot from Sunderland.
Even in 1944 the US were extremely reluctant to listen to lessons us Brits (and Canadians) learnt the hard way. We found at Dieppe that you needed to land armour along with the infantry and devised a huge range of mine clearing, bridging and flamethrowing tanks ('funnies') that supported our men. The US laughed at them and recreated the Somme with infantry charging fortified bunkers. As a result the Americans lost far far more men.
However, to give Private Ryan & Band of Brothers some defence British, Canadian & US forces normally had clearly defined areas of operation and rarely fought together. It would have been ridiculous to have the Royal Marines running across Omaha beach with Tom Hanks. Where British and US forces did fight together such as Operation Market Garden both "Band of Brothers" and a "Bridge too Far" are fairly accurate.
The US criticism that British Commanders were sometimes too careful with their mens lives and lost opportunities to shorten the war are also not inaccurate but this was a pretty reasonable consequence of having spent the first 3 years of the war fighting the nazis more or less single handed.
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#110. Thats not unique to the US though. The propaganda film 'desert victory' about El Alamein was reshot in Salisbury plain because the real artillery barrage didn't look good enough. The famous German tank commander Otto Carius tells an awful story (in his book 'Tigers in the Mud') about getting landed with a German propaganda film crew wanting him to restage some of his battles (then getting suprised by REAL russians) and most of the 'Battle of Britain' footage of Pilots running to their spitfires is equally staged.
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109. At 12:14pm on 19 Nov 2009, _marko wrote:
So are vampires morally equivalent to ordinary human beings?
There is incontrovertible evidence at least one isn't.
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110. At 12:36pm on 19 Nov 2009, Anglophone wrote:
"A film unit arrived and set up, followed by a number of landing craft that disgorged US marines onto the beach who proceeded to "capture" the beach"
File under 'nothing new . . .' Remember the US TV news footage of US Marines landing on the beaches of Kosovo?
(There aren't any, in case some people still don't know. It was Thessalonika in Greece. Once they'd got the 'invasion' over with they all handed their guns in and got into Greek civilian buses which were waiting out of camera shot. There were a few casualties, I believe, though none serious--or so I was told, but I couldn't check that out myself.)
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106. At 12:09pm on 19 Nov 2009, RomeStu wrote:
"Are you suggesting that American actors don't credit their home audience with the ability to distinguish between an actor and the character he plays?"
Can you anyway? What character other than Jack Nicholson has Jack Nicholson ever played? Or Woody Allen? (Or maybe he's not really an actor; not sure.)
So often, it seems, you're supposed to recognise the actor long before the character.
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113 Peter_Sym
Whilst trying to avoid degenerating into some endlessly recycled WW2 piece, there is a huge difference between doing a bit of discrete filming after the event (those Battle of Britain pilots don't seem to be breaking a sweat) and flagrantly creating events that either didn't happen or which were performed by someone else. That's what I mean by "colonising history". Nuff WW2 stuff!
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To Gavrielle_LaPoste,
Jeepers you are forgetting about or maybe have not seen Arthur. John Gielgud was cast by hollywood to play merely a supporting role that was kinda silly. As Bitterman the butler he nearly stold the show & even when muttering curses he always kept his best Jeeves face firmly in place.
Anyway, why do we stray so far from the spine tingling & ghoulish stuff? How did this topic morph into a diatribe about health care? Oh, I get it; because of all the transfusions & stuff.
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As usual you people don't know what the hell you are talking about. Brits have played every kind of role possible in American TV and movies from Basil Rathbone to David Niven, from Carey Grant to Patrick Stewart. They play whatever roles they get, they do it for the money just like everyone else. They are relatively easy to train, they pick up our language rather quickly shortly after they get here (unlike Bela Lugosi who never learned English and was never able to compete with Boris Karloff.) I can't help it if some little English guy took a job selling $9.95 vegetable choppers on infomercials at 3AM. That's the stereotype I think of when I imagine British actors here...selling vegetable choppers. We also once had two fat old English ladies boiling beef, potatoes, and laundry in giant pots on a stove on the Food Channel or PBS or something. That was gross. And that insufferable fool of a Galloping Gormet. Glad someone left the barn door open and he galloped off into the sunset for the last time not to be seen again.
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#117. Fair point but of course US forces DID land in North Africa using landing craft (Operation Torch). French resistance (because it was Vichy French territory not German) was pretty minimal but there was some combat around the landing sites. As an excercise in WW2 Propaganda what you described was a pretty white lie. The U-537 type of re-invention is far more damaging, although even we're not innocent here. We actually got the Enigma machine from the Poles yet in the book & film of Robert Harris's Novel 'Enigma' a Pole is the bad guy.
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Hilarious!
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Good Grief ! Mr. Piper got out of bed on the wrong side today, didn't he.
What an old sourpuss and, what is worse, with nothing whatsoever to add to add to our discussion.
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All of the jokes you hear about British or any foreign person on shows like The Simpsons,Family Guy,etc...Are more about making fun of old stereotypes and how ridiculous they are,then actually really portraying them.They are actually jokes about American society,not actually jokes about foreign people.I think sometimes their is confusion about who the joke is about,again it's about ourselves not others.We are making fun of ourselves and previous generations.
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104 Talking of Cinema,I think Sherlock Holmes movie will be a awful,but I will see it anyway,And by the way the BBC Sherlock Holmes is still played on many PBS stations it is still popular.So I think the idea of Americans not liking British to be Heroes is silly.Cary Grant was British and was the Hero in many movies.Most Americans at the time knew he was British.Sean Connery,Pierce Brosnan,and others.I think you are wrong.
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Mr Piper must have an awful lot of time on his hands if he can seek out
the Two Fat Ladies on the "Food Channel or PBS" Or would that be an admission that he watches that sort of thing because the home grown entertainment hasn't got much to offer?
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ref #104
It goes the other way at least on British TV. When is the last time DW potrayed an American in a positive light?
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Lord Nathan, about the Ozarks: a shallow gene pool is a shallow gene pool,
no matter where it is.
I am reminded of the joke (not to be repeated here) which concludes
with a parent disapproving of a marriage by her son to a young woman
because "If she isn't good enough for her family, she isn't good
enough for ours."
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Get the wooden stake ready, and, for goodness' sake, let's
cross-nail the coffin shut this time.
Where are the Mods when they're needed?
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Good grief. What a 'bloody' mess.
You know, the crisp upper-crusty accent is often played (here in the US) as either sexy power, or evil power, or (in this case) sexy sort-of-evil power.
Of course, I've heard rumors that folks with American-Country accents are often played abroad as the dumb, greedy, violent bad-guy.
Aren't Stereo-Types silly?
Meh.
Personally, I figure the Vampire theme tends to raise it's bloody head over Hollywood every few years. Its a Tween Fad. Big fat hairy deal.
Whereas Wizzzards... now THEY're something that amuse adults and kids alike, from romantic goof-balls to snarky-sarcastic folks. In fact (to make a small confession), my son is currently reading 'Jingo' and I have not yet been able to bring myself to 'Unseen Academicals.' I'm far to morose over the whole matter...
Maybe I need some frog pills for that.
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fayeth;
"...Are more about making fun of old stereotypes and how ridiculous they are,then actually really portraying them."
Perhaps the British would prefer that we make fun of the new British stereotypes...like the drunken soccer hooligan lout.
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faeyth wrote:
104 Talking of Cinema,I think Sherlock Holmes movie will be a awful,but I will see it anyway,And by the way the BBC Sherlock Holmes is still played on many PBS stations it is still popular.So I think the idea of Americans not liking British to be Heroes is silly.Cary Grant was British and was the Hero in many movies.Most Americans at the time knew he was British.Sean Connery,Pierce Brosnan,and others.I think you are wrong.
___________________-
I have mixed feelings about the Holmes movie, the worst one had to be with Roger Moore(yes Roger Moore)as Holmes and JackElam as Moriarity
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I think more has to do with actors abilities.Jude Law was awful in Cold Mountain,however Micheal Cain was good in Secondhand Lions.Cary Elwes was good in Princess Bride and Dracula where as Keanu Reeves and Winona Ryder are hard to watch.I think they need better screen tests and less about how many people a actor might bring with their fan base.
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Basil Rathbone IS Sherlock Holmes Period
Nigel Bruce IS Doctor Watson Period
Chales Laughton IS Henry VIII Period
Sean Connery IS James Bond Period
..and Bela Lugosi IS Count Dracula Period.
It is cast in stone forever.
Case Closed.
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# 104. Does the "BBC" Sherlock Holmes have Jeremy Brett playing Holmes? If so it was actually made by Granada TV a commerical company for ITV back in the day when ITV still made first class drama. I've bought the lot on DVD and think its the definitive holmes. BBC have made a few adaptions of some of the stories usually around Xmas but they're not as good. For some reason the Jeremy Brett ones were repeated on BBC2 about 4 years back (on a Sat afternoon) so the BBC may have bought the rights.
The late Ian Richardson did a few TV adaptions that were very good too, although everything Ian Richardson did was good. He appeared in the BBC's 'Murder Rooms' playing Prof Joseph Bell who the inspiration for Holmes.
The trailer for the Guy Richie movie looked pretty good. Nothing to do with Conan Doyle but probably quite a fun movie. I've no problem with dumb fun as long as thats what its meant to be.
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If Mr. Piper wishes to discuss cinematic exposures of national stereotypes, we could start off with Bowling for Columbine. Then we could move on to Fat Like Me. American both of them, no?
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Some one brought up Hugh Grant anyone ever see The Lair of the White Worm?
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#131. Sean Connery is Scottish and refuses to live in Britain until Scotland becomes independent & Pierce Brosnan is from the Irish Republic.
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RomeStu (#71), I should have clarified that I was thinking of filmgoers of my generation who saw Burton in his prime. It's true that few filmgoers today know much at all about classic cinema.
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Faeyth
Actually?
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Oh... and I'd like to point out that, while reading the HP Series aloud, I often had difficulty with my Scottish and Irish Lilts. Pirates and Leprechauns kept coming to mind.
After a few pages of dialogue between certain characters, I usually had to break into a strong Amerikanner Dialekt just to cleanse the palette. Reading Hermione like a cowgirl or a California surfer-ditz is rather amusing. I highly recommend it.
__________
Is there going to be Holmes movie? Really?
Oh dear.
Wasn't he was a recreational cocaine user?
Conservative America does not approve.
______
BTW et al: I would strongly discourage non-Americans (and Americans) from claiming that they understand the USA because they've seen some 'American Film.' Hollywood is pretty influential... but the 'big box-office movies' are simply not representative.
To assume so is as silly as for Teen American Girls to think that all British males are sexy thin power-hungry types with mysterious bedroom eyes...
and I'm sure that... um... not all British gentlemen... um... which... um... I'm sure that... um...
I think I should stop typing right now.
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MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Basil Rathbone IS Sherlock Holmes Period
Nigel Bruce IS Doctor Watson Period
____________________-
If you have read the books, you would know that the potrayals don't match up, especially Bruce as Watson
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#78. wanderingangus: "And where is DC's message of thanks to MM for taking us outside our usual shouty politics and into other aspects of US/Brit culture?"
Do I have to thank Mark for doing his job? It would be patronizing of me to do so - the result of his tangential post speaks (or writes) for itself. However, I would ask Mark for more like this since it has spurred some interesting comments.
#83. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "That's not how it always works in the US. Marnee Nixon, who played Eliza opposite Harrison on stage, lost the part to Audrey Hepburn, who couldn't sing to save her life and had to have her songs voiced by Nixon."
Marni Nixon certainly did not play opposite Rex Harrison either on Broadway or in London: it was Julie Andrews. And Marni Nixon didn't sing every note in the film, Hepburn did record the score and some parts were used.
"You'll know Marnee's work as well from West Side Story and Mary Poppins where she voiced for Natalie Wood and Julie Andrews, respectively."
Wrong about Miss Andrews: she sang without any additional assistance, as she continued to do until after the stage musical Victor/Victoria and then had her vocal cords compromised by surgery.
It's inaccuracies like these which "offend my sensibilities".
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MK, believe it or not I own the complete annotated Sherlock Holmes. While what you say may be true when it comes to comparing the literarly Watson with the cinematic Watson, the movie version brings Watson alive like no book could.
Wangus, the stereotypes of Scotsmen in the US was none too flattering to begin with. It has suffered an even greater blow since the release of Magrahi.
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Is it that all vampires in the US are British or that all British are vampires?
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Philly-Mom, you must have a lot of kids.
And, somehow, we have lost sight of something important. ALL bad
guys in American movies are either Germans or Japanese, or Brits
protraying Germans.
I know because I saw a Rambo movie starring Sylvester Stallone where
he was in the middle of Vietnam, and he was being tortured by
Germans and Japanese.
See, that proves it...
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Folks you've thrown up examples of Brits playing heroic roles. I'm not really convinced. Cary Grant may have been British...Bob Hope, Charlie Chaplin and Stan Laurel were too for that matter, but he was always "an American" in whatever roles he played...that or he was in possession of the most pronounced mid-Atlantic accent on record! Similarly Jude Law played as an American character in the excellent Cold Mountain...as did the wonderful Roy Winstone. The point I'm making is that you won't see a British actor in a "heroic" role outside of a costume drama.
Sherlock Holmes then? Well US audiences seem to be comfortable with a Brit being deeply intellectual providing of course that they don't get to slay the villain or kiss the girl in the final reel. Sherlock is also ambiguously asexual which of course plays well to the "benchmark of American virility" argument in my original post.
Folks...Patrick Stewert is British but the character he played was called Jean-Luc Picard which doesn't sound too much like British name. Pierce Brosnan is Irish and not British...US audiences can comfort themselves with that when he gets the girl, Sean Connery is Scottish (please note that I excluded actors with Scottish accents from my original analysis)
Otherwise, you seem to pointing towards British heroes in errr...British Films which isn't quite the same thing. Now I don't see why British characters should play heroic roles in American films about American issues...why should they? But why then should they need to fill all the roles for despicable, criminal, megalomaniacal, supernatural, evil extra-terrestrial characters, other than to meet the need of something deep in the American psyche?
Mind you, it probably also says a lot about the psyche of the average British thesp' who will play anything provided that the role is interesting and the money is good.
Let's call the whole thing off!
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Apropos the original subject matter of this immediate thread, there is an article in The Times, ”Of course we love vampires”, which may be of interest.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"The British ambassador to the U.S. is suggesting on his blog that one thing we bring to the special relationship is a bloody good bite"...and also a devilish sense of humor (humour?) too, with such a clever pun! Certainly, a "good bite" would leave one a little bloodied. And just where did that curious Britishism "bloody" come from, anyway? The upper echelons of the foreign office, perchance? They certainly undertook a lot of truly bloody imperial campaigns over the centuries, some of which have been glorified in cinema, which has always been an effective propaganda medium. "They tend to have an aristocratic bearing and rather cynical detachment"...making them well suited for such macabre tasks.
"While sometimes tortured by what they do"...they more often were the ones doing the torturing of the natives. So "where better to hide than in plain sight, in the upper echelons of the British foreign office?" Since they too, "are basically amoral servants of a higher power." "Get out the" gatling guns, Sir Nigel! And now this bloody legacy has been bequeathed to the vampires in the Amerikan state department with their torture chambers and cluster bombs. The "special relationship" is indeed a bloody one!
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137.Pierce Brosnan did spend a large amount of childhood in England.
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90. MagicKirin:
"Dont forget Kenneth Brangh bringing Shakespere to a new audience. I can never get tired of his Crispen day's speech."
oooohh... speaking of Old' Billy -- A popular Theatre concept for High School here in the states (at least, until Public Schools started loosing all their arts funding...) was to recast Shakespeare into different environments. Transplant the text and soliloquy into the setting/dialects of urban gang wars, the wild west, sub-urban American Summer-Camp...
Point is - certain ideas are timeless and transcend place, space, and cultural norms. Othello can wear a sharp suit. AND, style of dress and dialect are merely costumes used to reflect ideas and communicate them to a given audience.
And again I emphasize: Stereotypes are silly.
They're as stoopid as Palin Promoting Profiling.
*bangs head on desk*
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139 you're probably over 40 and don't get that younger generation of Americans are making fun of the previous ones.
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lol glad to see family talk brings out the best in some.
"Some one brought up Hugh Grant anyone ever see The Lair of the White Worm?"
were talking horror films not porn
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Definitely over 40, actually.
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151 considering the disputed originality of "the bard" I think your comment about different places and times is quite appropriate.
119 MA I reckon I should apply to one of them ad agencies for voice commercials. Just cause I know you would get driven batty by it.
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faeyth I think Actually is the target, actually.
Time for a musical interlude for the dreads
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RIrBiVuN3w
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71 stu
I know wales are endangered and greenpeace keep trying to save em.
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Sadly, my crumbling brain can only release information at a slow place. Perhaps I need a USB interface and FireWire cable.
I now recall an amusing anecdote from the film A Fish Called Wanda in which the dull barrister (Attorney) Archie Leach finally gets the better of the psychotic self-styled hitman Otto (Kevin Kline) to get the girl Wanda played by Jamie Lee Curtis. The film was a great success but the ending had to be reshot. In the original cut Otto is crushed into a bed of wet concrete by K-K-K-Ken (Micheal Palin) the mild mannered criminal sidekick, whilst Archie and Wanda board a plane to South America. Otto is dead!
Apparently this ending didn't play well with US test audiences. They did not like the idea of the American character, though completely loathsome, dying at the end while the British Archie got the girl. It was impossible to rework the whole plot so instead, Otto is resurrected to appear at the end peering through the plane window to show that he is in fact not dead after all and the natural order has not been disturbed.
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130 marcus
"Perhaps the British would prefer that we make fun of the new British stereotypes...like the drunken soccer hooligan lout."
We don't have any "soccer" hooligans.
If fact we don't really have many football hooligans any more either, so successful has been the police action together with the clubs and stadium managment to make the games safe for families, well, and normal adults too.
The odd "event" still takes place, but as ever Marcus is basing his "extensive" knowledge of all things European on the distant memories of his 2 week trip to Europe in 1971.
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131 magic
"I have mixed feelings about the Holmes movie, the worst one had to be with Roger Moore(yes Roger Moore)as Holmes"
The name's Holmes, Sherlock Holmes!
It sounds like a nomination for worst film of all time ..... it almost makes me want to seek it out to see exactly how Roger Moore turns Holmes into Bond or Simon Templar.
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153 Then you probably don't like Toxic Avenger than either?
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140 philly-mom
"Wasn't he was a recreational cocaine user?
Conservative America does not approve. "
Oh, but all it would take is a not-to-sincere apology and it would be all hunky-dory ..... ask GWB
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Something has just struck me ....
What with all the fuss the christian right in the US made over the Harry Potter books (*) and their evil hold on the impressionable youth, the hellfire and brimstone brigade seems strangely quiet over the Twilight phenomenon.
Are made-up vampires somehow more wholesome than made-up wizzards?
(*) including lobbying publishers to change the title of the first book so that in the USA it was published as "HP and the SORCERER'S stone" instead of philosopher's stone.
Not only is this trite beyond words, but also showed a typical disregard for history and culture .... after all Nicolas Flamel was real, lived in the 14th century and worked like all alchemists at finding the legendary "philosopher's stone" which would bring eternal life, and turn lead into gold.
His house still stands in Paris, at 51 rue de Montmorency. It is the oldest house in the city. The ground floor currently contains a restaurant.
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150. faeyth wrote:
"137.Pierce Brosnan did spend a large amount of childhood in England."
Faeyth - alot of Irish live in Great Britain, and many have been there for generations .... I wouldn't fancy your chances if you implied this might make them less Irish (or more British) in some way.
Brosnan is an Irish actor, wherever he went to school or on holiday.
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159 RomeStu
You get meinto trouble with the Party, and look at you!
(The Party emailed "any more slip-ups like that, and it's chocolate without nuts in it for a month". Can't say anything else, except judging by the antique anti-Scot joke, not to mention what they watch on the telly, some vampires must be well past their prime cuts by now.)
I'm still trying to find virtual garlic, knew the crosses wouldn't work. Somebody must have some.
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165
Yeah, sorry. Too much time on my hands I guess.
But, yes, I have virtual garlic. I could virtually sell it to you for alot of virtual "mardellworld" money (let's say "mardies").
I have virtual catnip too, but it doesn't seem so necessary these days.
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"Folks...Patrick Stewert is British but the character he played was called Jean-Luc Picard which doesn't sound too much like British name. Pierce Brosnan is Irish and not British...US audiences can comfort themselves with that when he gets the girl, Sean Connery is Scottish (please note that I excluded actors with Scottish accents from my original analysis)"
He also plays Professor Xavier (anyone not think he is the man?) in the wildly popular X-Men movies. I guess he is not British there either, though (don't see how it matters...most of us know they are British). Ian McKellen plays Gandalf, Magneto, etc. Gandalf is part of an entirely fictional world, but I am sure most Americans would most associate him with England in that role (especially with Harry Potter's popularity, speaking of that...Daniel Radcliffe).
Daniel Craig has been in a few movies now, including the new Bond movies.
Even more on topic, Stephen Moyer plays one of the main characters in True Blood (vampire show on HBO). Imo, it is by far the best vampire show/movie out right now. He is really good in the show, btw.
I don't think Americans have anything against British people playing heroic roles - though I can only speak for myself. PS: Patrick Stewart is the man.
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140. At 4:12pm on 19 Nov 2009, Philly-Mom wrote:
"as silly as for Teen American Girls to think that tall British males are sexy thin power-hungry types with mysterious bedroom eyes... and I'm sure that... um... not all British gentlemen..."
". . .are power-hungry"?
Quite right. It's OK, no need to be coy about saying that, it's not a sin not to be over here.
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"Are made-up vampires somehow more wholesome than made-up wizzards?"
Very interesting point, never occurred to me either. That is a little bit ridiculous. No one I know freaked out about Harry Potter (though I wouldn't associate with anyone who would I guess...), I personally have read the books and they are a pretty good read. There is nothing even remotely objectionable in them, which doesn't surprise me as the religious right is beyond comprehension.
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stu I saw you mention Spike.or James Marsters. the american.;( he does it pretty good.
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96. At 11:06am on 19 Nov 2009, Lord Nathan wrote:
Quite appropriate, methinks.
Oh, for heavens sake, let's not start that again!
And how come nobody's mentioned "the archetypical Englishman", David Niven, who incidentally was born in Auchtermuchty, Pertthshire, Scotland?
Good point. I'd forgotten David Niven. He's definitely up there with Rex Harrison and Cary Grant as an archetype.
James Mason?
Archetypal baddie, definitely.
91. At 10:44am on 19 Nov 2009, squirrellist wrote:
Hmm. Have you seen the pictures of Dr Crippen? (Richard Attenborough will substitute of course, if not. . .) I can think of one or two other portrayals of people who -- given other names -- people wouldn't look twice at. But I don't want to see us going down the rathole again. But did you see Kenneth Branagh in Conspiracy? I think it was shown in the USA.
I love Kenneth Branagh's work and always expected he could play a baddie if he chose. And I was being facecious about the picture. Grant's real problem is that though he tried to stretch himself early in his Hollywood career, it never really took.
119. At 1:51pm on 19 Nov 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
And that insufferable fool of a Galloping Gormet. Glad someone left the barn door open and he galloped off into the sunset for the last time not to be seen again.
You leave Graham Kerr alone! I had many a tasty meal as a child growing up thanks to my mother's love for him. And he was never an actor. He was a chef!
126. At 3:26pm on 19 Nov 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #104
It goes the other way at least on British TV. When is the last time DW potrayed an American in a positive light?
Yup. Noticed that years ago. Oh, and let's have the Master kill the President for kicks! I don't think Russell Davies realized that every nuke in our arsenal would have been trained on Great Britian for a meeting with aliens set up by a clearly erratic PM. The instant he died we would have launched. Turning back time would not have saved Britain either. The President was still dead and it was still the fault of a duly elected British Prime Minister.
142. At 4:21pm on 19 Nov 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
Marni Nixon certainly did not play opposite Rex Harrison either on Broadway or in London: it was Julie Andrews. And Marni Nixon didn't sing every note in the film, Hepburn did record the score and some parts were used.
My apologies, if I was inaccurate it's because it was four in the morning when I wrote it and taking medication. Not by deliberate design or ignorance. Normally I take the time to double check facts before I post. I was basing this on childhood recollections of things my mother said to me over 30 years ago! So I merged Julie Andrews and Marni Nixon into one figure. Sue me. And the Audrey Hepburn bits that were used weren't for the full song and are considered negligible to the performance. That's also considered one reason why Hepburn didn't get an Academy Award for the part. But the point still stands. Where was Julie Andrews then in the film version?
It's inaccuracies like these which "offend my sensibilities".
And it's bizarre assumptions of how an industry should work, but doesn't, by people who know nothing about the business, then refuse to admit they were wrong, that offend mine. But again, the point still stands. You don't just get the job because you were in the play.Hollywood is an industry town where the product is film and television. Not an artists colony.
And by the way, the only reason Julie Andrews starred in The Sound of Music is because Doris Day turned down the part.
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170. fluffytale wrote:
stu I saw you mention Spike.or James Marsters. the american.;( he does it pretty good.
Fluff, you're not the first to pick me up on that one. Mea culpa ..... it's been a while since I watched Buffy, but dredging my memory banks Spike's accent does seem to be on a vampiric par with Dick van Dyke, the international gold standard for rubbish foreign accents!
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163. At 6:29pm on 19 Nov 2009, RomeStu wrote:
"What with all the fuss the christian right in the US made over the Harry Potter books (*) and their evil hold on the impressionable youth, the hellfire and brimstone brigade seems strangely quiet over the Twilight phenomenon. Are made-up vampires somehow more wholesome than made-up wizzards?"
I hadn't thought of that. Good point. Let's start a campaign!
(I don't like vampires anyway. If people weren't aware.)
There was the 'Northern Lights' becoming 'The Golden Compass' too. Suddenly remember the homosexual angels, Balthamos and Baruch; did they make a fuss about that? Or did it go over their heads?
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46 opps sorry to be serious but do I hear you saying the feds should pay to fix the hospital and stop contesting it?
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"What with all the fuss the christian right in the US made over the Harry Potter books (*) and their evil hold on the impressionable youth, the hellfire and brimstone brigade seems strangely quiet over the Twilight phenomenon. Are made-up vampires somehow more wholesome than made-up wizzards?"
I've thought of something else....
.... given that the christian right are also generally corporatist republicans, perhaps it is a form of hidden sanctions against a foreign good taking American money .... whereas Trueblood, Twilight etc are all US made and therefore good business.
Am I being too wierd?
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167. At 6:45pm on 19 Nov 2009, Tino wrote:
. . .especially with Harry Potter's popularity, speaking of that...Daniel Radcliffe. . .
The horse 'joke' thing reminded me: if Americans do associate an actor's character with the part (or vice versa), they're going to find the world turned upside down and get a nasty shock if they make a film of Equus with Radcliffe playing the same part he did on stage . . .and getting his kit off as well. . .
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Oh dear, I do think of Timothy Spall when the teeth issue comes up!
Although I don't think he's been in any "American" films(?) I feel he deserves a mention.
I think he's brilliant! He's obviously a Mike Leigh favourite His Cockney roles brilliant (I'm partial of course.
And, I'd like to ask have any of you seen him play the Nasty ol' Barber of Fleet Street? (I don't mean the Depp version where he is the Beadle) I cannot find it referenced, but I know I saw it with him in the lead role. Can anyone save my sanity and tell me they have also seen it, please? I personally think it's one of the best versions I've seen.
He was also one of the brothers in Nicholas Nickleby and his Harry Potter work - anyway, I'm a great fan, and I love that he isn't a plastic Glamour Boy so you find you're watching/listening to him instead of looking at him.
I'm sorry, but I'm a bit soft when it comes to Hugh Grant - I can't help it! Just nice diversionary films.
Jude Law was terrific in The Talented Mr. Ripley
Do believe me when I tell you, that my DVD collection is leaning toward obscene in number (not content!)and contains some real gems,I'm not just "floppy" over Hugh Grant, honest.
I'll let you see my Excel organised list if you ask nicely :)
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174. At 7:13pm on 19 Nov 2009, fluffytale wrote:
46 opps sorry to be serious but do I hear you saying the feds should pay to fix the hospital and stop contesting it?
I think you did, and I wondered briefly too, but let's not spoil this rare outbreak of cousinly love across the Pond . . .We've even managed to get out of (whispers) 'the war' relatively unscathed so far. . .and there haven't even been any (crosses fingers) Levantine excursions. . .
(Or maybe they're just being nice to us for fear we might bite?)
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145. gunsandreligion wrote: Philly-Mom, you must have a lot of kids.
Um... I have two sons, 10 & 13. Honey, did I accidentally imply that I've had a child for every Pratchett book? Oh Gods have mercy...
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137. Peter_Sym wrote:
Sean Connery is Scottish and refuses to live in Britain until Scotland becomes independent & Pierce Brosnan is from the Irish Republic.
Wow. Cool. Sean Connery is a hottie.
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168. squirrellist wrote:
'"as silly as for Teen American Girls to think that tall British males are sexy thin power-hungry types with mysterious bedroom eyes..."
-- me (140)
Quite right. It's OK, no need to be coy about saying that, it's not a sin not to be over here. '
Aw now, listen dear:
First of all, even RED squirrels are short and fuzzy, not tall and handsome.
Secondly, I've only ever known sqirrels to want NUTs, not NECKS.
And thirdly, I've already read that the British Pubs are closing. If I scrape up the cash to visit the Isles someday and I meet a bunch of short, blond, heavy guys with silly grins searching for nuts... I'm going to be seriously disappointed.
Yeesh, I can order a Guinness at a pub over here and save myself the travel costs. And pubs over here show the kind of football where guys wear really tight pants. BONUS!
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.....Viv Leigh the worse Southern American accent I've ever heard
that accent was as bad as Dick Van Dyke in Poppins - uck!!
I think my husband and I are the only people on the planet who hated Gone with the Wind! Tried to watch it several times (3 or 4) because we were supposed to love it, there was something wrong with you if you don't - well, I guess there's something wrong with us then, because we've been out of the closet, free of the stigma now - we hated it!
By the way, my husband is American and a tremendous history buff, so I think he was surprised at his reaction.
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Christian right also get angry with Disney and Dungeon and Dragons when I was younger.Apparently D&D has devil worshiping.I am saying Who cares where any of these actors come from are or were raised.I have a Canadian born Governor and a President who was raised all over the place.It doesn't matter.And I don't think there is some US conspiracy against English Men as a Hero.Develop a bigger film industry like Japan,China,India,Canada or South Korea has been doing over the years.Then you can watch whatever Heroes you like.By the way The Tudors is a good show that is really popular with many English men portrayed as Heroes.
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171.Gavrielle_LaPoste:
The point I meant to make about Branagh as Heydrich in 'Conspiracy' was that his portrayal was all the more chilling because he made the man not only handsome (as he was) but as normal as anyone who might right now be running a meeting about new product development in Silicon Valley and handing sushi and white wine around the table and chatting about the kids. No 'evil eyes' or snarling or bared teeth or anything like that. I can't get it out of my head.
(No harm done, I hope, we've 'done' the war . . .)
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180. At 7:45pm on 19 Nov 2009, CamberwellBeauty wrote:
I think my husband and I are the only people on the planet who hated Gone with the Wind!
Nope. Me too. Seems people still think the same way, don't know why. Can't cope with the book either.
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180. At 7:45pm on 19 Nov 2009, CamberwellBeauty wrote:
Viv Leigh the worse Southern American accent I've ever heard
that accent was as bad as Dick Van Dyke in Poppins - uck!!
Agreed on both counts! And poor Ms. Leigh never entirely lost that accent either. Still, I'm not going to dis her. She was bi-polar and without much in the way of proper treatment or understanding. Years later, when Larry Olivier finally understood what had happened to his marriage, they say he felt terribly guilty about leaving her. And because of the disease I don't think her true acting potential, which Olivier insisted was there, was ever truly realized.
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Reposte;
"You leave Graham Kerr alone! I had many a tasty meal as a child growing up thanks to my mother's love for him. And he was never an actor. He was a chef!"
Seemed to me he was only acting the part of a chef...and badly at that. You poor thing, you must have had a cullinary-deprived childhood. Good thing your parents weren't reported to the authorities for child cruelty, you might have been removed from your home and put up for adoption. Come to think of it, you might have been better off at that.
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179. At 7:37pm on 19 Nov 2009, Philly-Mom wrote:
"If I scrape up the cash to visit the Isles someday and I meet a bunch of short, blond, heavy guys with silly grins searching for nuts... I'm going to be seriously disappointed."
If you do, and you go to one of the pubs over here that "show the kind of football where guys wear really tight pants" you're bound to. It's their habitat. Sorry.
(On the bright side, though, apart from match nights, they don't get out much. So they're easy to avoid.)
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# 183 Squirrellist - wrote
180. At 7:45pm on 19 Nov 2009, CamberwellBeauty wrote:
I think my husband and I are the only people on the planet who hated Gone with the Wind!
Nope. Me too. Seems people still think the same way, don't know why. Can't cope with the book either.
Oohhh Squirrel, you are my hero! Thank you.
I think you should be in the movies :)
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175. At 7:24pm on 19 Nov 2009, RomeStu wrote:
"What with all the fuss the christian right in the US made over the Harry Potter books (*) and their evil hold on the impressionable youth, the hellfire and brimstone brigade seems strangely quiet over the Twilight phenomenon. Are made-up vampires somehow more wholesome than made-up wizzards?"
My brother belonged to a fundamentalist congregation that did not allow the kids to read Potter books [my present was returned with a pointed but polite admonition]. They were not to celebrate Halloween, either.
They did not confine their Protestantism [they call themselves Christian, not Protestant despite the behaviour] to fantasy creatures, however. They were not to celebrate St. Patrick's Day [unless they called it Irish Heritage Day].
These people are for real, folks! So someone please throw a bucket of cold water on the Wicked Witch of Wasilla! [No offense to Wiccans, it's a movie reference.]
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"given that the christian right are also generally corporatist republicans, perhaps it is a form of hidden sanctions against a foreign good taking American money .... whereas Trueblood, Twilight etc are all US made and therefore good business.
Am I being too wierd?"
Lol, probably. I mean I tend to avoid those people but in my experience they really are that crazy, there would be no hidden motivation. Kind of scarier this way, actually.
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182. At 7:48pm on 19 Nov 2009, squirrellist wrote:
The point I meant to make about Branagh as Heydrich in 'Conspiracy' was that his portrayal was all the more chilling because he made the man not only handsome (as he was) but as normal as anyone who might right now be running a meeting about new product development in Silicon Valley and handing sushi and white wine around the table and chatting about the kids. No 'evil eyes' or snarling or bared teeth or anything like that. I can't get it out of my head.
(No harm done, I hope, we've 'done' the war . . .)
LOL! No war for me here. I absolutely loved his performance in Conspiracy. Very tightly controlled evil with a mundane face is particularly chilling. It's always terrifying to imagine the person sitting next to you might be a monster and nobody knows it but you. Dexter is done along the same lines, if you like your horror truly spine-tingling.
But Branagh's competence in any role never surprises me. And as he ages, like the smartest and bravest of actors, he'll take on new challenges and continue surprising the critics, if not his fans.
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The Scotsman joke got deleted. No surprise here. Britain's got no sense of humor, no talent, no nothin'. What a grim place, no wonder anyone with a brain left or is thinking about it. Eventually the only people who will like it there will be the Taleban. They're taking over anyway. The archbishop of Cranberry Sauce says Sharia law is just around the corner there.
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187. CamberwellBeauty wrote:
"Oohhh Squirrel, you are my hero! Thank you. I think you should be in the movies :)"
My flat in London's been in three, a French TV commercial and 3 or 4 TV series. (Or at least the outside of it has.) But every time I ask if they've got a nice character part they just say "Nuts!".
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#171. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "My apologies, if I was inaccurate it's because it was four in the morning when I wrote it and taking medication."
The moral being, don't. And there was no "if" about it: you were wrong.
"I was basing this on childhood recollections of things my mother said to me over 30 years ago!"
And your mother was wrong too!
"And it's bizarre assumptions of how an industry should work, but doesn't, by people who know nothing about the business"
Dear Lady (with a bow to your curtsey): I have been in the business (or "Industry", as American film people like to say) all my working life; I was invited to Hollywood by none other than MCA, then owner of Universal. To say I "know nothing about the business" is, to say the least, inaccurate. Granted, for awhile I gravitated to the Recording Industry and specialised in Original Cast Albums. I have the distinction of producing the two oldest America OC albums, predating The Cradle Will Rock and Oklahoma!. By a happy turn of events, I returned to Universal and worked with them for more than ten years. I am not ignorant of how the business works.
You might consider that using a big Hollywood name does not guarantee the success of the resulting product: consider the musicals Mame and Gypsy, both disasters which replaced Angela Lansbury and Ethel Merman with Lucille Ball and Rosalind Russell respectively, the latter whose husband, producer Frederick Brisson, had reportedly purchased the motion picture rights in order that his wife would play the part of Mama Rose.
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188. McJakome:
Hmm. Suppose they don't eat hot cross buns either then? (Or maybe you don't have them in the States.)
Sorry, seem to have food on my mind. Must be time to sink my (slightly pointed) eye teeth into a nice rare steak.
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#192 Squirrellist
Cheek of it!
Still, you'd have probably been working for peanuts, anyway! Ha.
Before the end of my work day finishes - yes, yes, I've been posting whilst at work, I'm out in the open about that too!
I wish all of you on the US side a happy (upcoming) Thanksgiving, and on the otherside of the Ocean who might also feel that it is indeed a Thanksgiving! :).
We're off to Kitty Hawk for the week; get to be a real Pilgrim.
I shall think of you all as I fish from the shore (my fav. thing to do)hopefully catch a striped bass or two, stand on the deck of the ocean front cottage, beer in hand, and hopefully watch some good films when the sun goes down!
Cheers.
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"The Scotsman joke got deleted". Nah. It was so ancient I'm sure it just crumbled into dust and faded away not even leaving a ghostly stain behind.
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172. At 7:08pm on 19 Nov 2009, RomeStu wrote:
170. fluffytale wrote:
stu I saw you mention Spike.or James Marsters. the american.;( he does it pretty good.
Fluff, you're not the first to pick me up on that one. Mea culpa ..... it's been a while since I watched Buffy, but dredging my memory banks Spike's accent does seem to be on a vampiric par with Dick van Dyke, the international gold standard for rubbish foreign accents!
-----------
Stu I have to take issue with you there, Mr Marsters certainly had me fooled with his accent. Until, that is, he gave the game away when it was revealed that Spike was a Manchester United supported. No self-respecting, stylish and classy British vamp would them. There are levels of evil no one should cross!
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#179. Philly-Mom: "I can order a Guinness at a pub over here and save myself the travel costs. And pubs over here show the kind of football where guys wear really tight pants. BONUS!"
If the latter is your interest, watch French Rugby Football - almost indecently short shorts! (I know, nothing to do with blood-sucking villains but, despite the children, Mom still seems to have a healthily prurient interest in men, with or without the fangs.)
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On the more general point, I don't think it's an issue of British actors being type cast as 'evil' charactors and 'not allowed' to play the hero. I think it's more that British actors are trusted to play the more complex roles - regardless of whether they are the good guys or not / or whatever nationality the character is supposed to be.
By way of evidence, look at Hugh Laurie as House or the chap (name escapes me) who played the lead in The Wire.
And another thing, there are a lot more British actors over in the States than you might think - especially in the more 'classy' TV series. They turn up eveywhere from Battlestar Galatic to 11th Hour, CSI New York to Flashforward. And, as mentioned above, The Wire (where 3 of the main roles where filled by Brits).
Actually, can we keep this quite? And please, for pities sake, no one tell Marcus. He'll think it's all part of an evil European consipracy to take over America by stealth (obvious, in league with the Spider Witch and the Reverse Vampires!)
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#131 " have mixed feelings about the Holmes movie, the worst one had to be with Roger Moore(yes Roger Moore)as Holmes "
Have you never seen the Charlton Heston version? Yes, Charlton Heston as Sherlock Holmes. Really.
Regarding American characters in Doctor Who; what about Capt Jack? He was popular enough to get his own show.
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Philly-Mom - Have to agree with Mr Cunard. If you are looking for 'real' men in short-shorts and tight, rippling torso huggin jerseys, you'd be better watching Rugby, than 'Soccer'. Just quickly pass over the Props, Locks and the Hooker (yes that is really the name of a position in Rugby) who looks have been spoilt somewhat over the years with cauliflower ears and blackeyes, and take your pick of the loose forwards and back division.
Note to self: You are getting way too in touch with your feminine side these days!
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I'm not much of a film buff, but y'all are definitely piquing my interest in rugby...
Just did a Google image search on "rugby players." Highly recommended, but not necessarily while you're at work.
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HabitualHero wrote:
#131 " have mixed feelings about the Holmes movie, the worst one had to be with Roger Moore(yes Roger Moore)as Holmes "
Have you never seen the Charlton Heston version? Yes, Charlton Heston as Sherlock Holmes. Really.
Regarding American characters in Doctor Who; what about Capt Jack? He was popular enough to get his own show.
____________________________
Did not know there was a Charlton Heston version?
As far as Capt Jack, although the actor is from America the character is not.
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The Heston film was called The Crucifer of Blood (1991) and was directed by his son. I'm not dissing Heston, a top actor in the right role, but casting him as Holmes must be one of the strangest casting decisions ever.
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An Englishwoman named Ashton is going to have a leading role in a fiction called "The European Union." While the original story was entirely an American production, this poor immitation knockoff is strictly foreign. Some Brits are looking forward to the ending. In fact they say any ending will be a happy ending. Personally I'm waiting for the comic book version to come out.
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@ 193
I am not ignorant of how the business works.
Could have fooled me.
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#206. Gavrielle_LaPoste: I am not ignorant of how the business works.
"Could have fooled me."
So what Oscar, Grammy or Tony nominations do you have?
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205:
The hot tip from a mate of mine who works for one of the Hollywood showbiz papers is that Mr Piper's script for Apocalypse Europe: the Vampire Bites Back (apparently widely known as " Overbite'" for short or "Not that sanguinary thing again') has just been turned down by yet another studio.
As have the prequel, the pre-prequel, the sequel, the pre-post sequel, the post sequel and Overbites II-LXVIX.
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I am surprised that the Right-wing loonies allow Vampire Films to be shown in the US. Maybe they haven't caught the underlying theme of sex and homoeroticism in the films. Dracuala bites both males and females and both sexes call him Master. What is he the master of, if not sex.
I don't think the Right-wing holy rollers have figured that out yet. But like all hypocrite they believe in do what I say, not what I do or am doing to or with someone else.
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G Britain does have some of the toothiest actors/actresses, which is good for playing vampires, although you could create fake teeth anyway. Many Brits also have pale skin and the cool accents, which make them more mysterious and intriguing. But the British also have phenomenal acting skills, great character personalities and so much more. I mean G Britain is the land of William Shakespeare and many other great playwrights. So G Britain is known for its play-writing and acting. I think that the teeth are kind of cool, though, in an Austin Powers sort of way, as they have great characteristics. Actors/actresses who are not wholly perfect are the best ones. A person's uniqueness is what makes them interesting. I would say G Britain probably has put the bite on the states, most recently in the form of Rob Pattinson who is the most popular guy in the USA, besides Johnny Depp, People's "sexiest man."
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209. At 01:26am on 20 Nov 2009, marygrav wrote:
I am surprised that the Right-wing loonies allow Vampire Films to be shown in the US. Maybe they haven't caught the underlying theme of sex and homoeroticism in the films.
See 175, 188, 189.
(Hint: maybe if we don't call them names, one might pop in and enlighten us. I think tino's probably come up with the likeliest answer in 189.)
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210. At 01:53am on 20 Nov 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
"Many Brits also have pale skin . . ." I think you'll find that's the make-up the Goths go in for. . . .Any minute somebody's going to say it's because we're all queer as well. (See 209.)
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LOL Gav. I can't say how but I will tell you that DC more than likely really does know the Biz a bit better than the average blogger.
I'll take issue with other points , like Marks right to blog as he likes (after all he's yet to bait racism unlike others in the past) but on knowing every old movie I'm sure he has real knowledge.
Just sayin.
Time to get all Amrcus about things.
About them teef.,
Yous mericans go on and on about teef, you have insurance to cover you teef. Most kids get braces needed or not.
cause teef gotta be straight.
yet you can't give people HEALTH CARE.
you pay more in teef fixens than is needed and then wonder why you got no healf care.
So remember for every straight set o teef in the USA a kid in the UK still lives.
still Camberwell a rare moment of agreement.
"God its filled with wind " was one of the top ranking rank films of al time.
A real waste of a sunday afternoon.
But that song film ,hills are alive, was pretty dross like as well.
209 marygrav
"I am surprised that the Right-wing loonies allow Vampire Films to be shown in the US. Maybe they haven't caught the underlying theme of sex and homoeroticism in the films. Dracuala bites both males and females and both sexes call him Master. What is he the master of, if not sex.
I don't think the Right-wing holy rollers have figured that out yet. But like all hypocrite they believe in do what I say, not what I do or am doing to or with someone else."
that description sounds like the leader of the latter day st.s , or one of them televangelists
same mindless following. the vamp style teaches people to accept the unthinking and the cult.
the master,father.
bloodsucking wealth sucking.
worship wealth sucking dominating over bearing deceitful.
Potter was about questioning more.
It is un realistic to think that will be acceptable.
Learn, develop express yourself.
Or be a follower of a master.
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209:
Ouch, it's like you've driven a stake right through my heart over a movie genre.
Honestly, they're just movies; if I don't like the movie I don't go and see it, or if I do go and I hate it, then I walk out.
What is there to be surprised about?
You're just making assumptions that all so called right-wing loons would care about something so trivial. You're also making assumptions over the underlying theme of vampire movies. Honestly, I have never considered vampirism to be homoerotic considering vampires usually go after a girl or have a harem back at the castle, though I get the themes of seduction and old time horror. Personally, I prefer vampire movies like "Van Helsing" over movies like "Twilight" because the romances in movies like "Twilight" are geared more toward women and teens.
Lastly, I don't understand where "right-wing hypocrisy" could logically be worked into a discussion about vampire movies. It seems to be a bit of a stretch to assert that because Republicans haven’t tried to ban vampire movies in the US they're somehow demonstrating hypocrisy. Maybe it's all above my head, but I don't see it. To me they're just movies to watch and enjoy.
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#213. fluffytale: "I can't say how but I will tell you that DC more than likely really does know the Biz a bit better than the average blogger."
Thanks for the pat on-the-back, much appreciated.
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DC, are you referring to Red, Hot and Blue?
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Oh, I don't think it's any worse here for the Brits than it is in the UK for Americans... We've always been "the (sadly inferior) colonies" over there, haven't we? Poor, ignorant rubes who haven't a clue or a prayer of getting one, endlessly tolerated by our superior cousins (or should I say, forebears)?
I admit, there are some Americans like that... but then there are also British degenerates with bad teeth and evil agendas. You can find anything if you look for it hard enough...
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#16. Nov 2009, gunsandreligion: "DC, are you referring to Red, Hot and Blue?"
No - the Merman sides were recorded by Liberty Music Shops along with some other selections from the show. These formed one side of an LP which I produced, the other side being Stars in Your Eyes. I discovered the 98% complete recordings of Cole Porter's Something For The Boys which also starred the Queen of Broadway. The oldest complete recording is in fact Ziegfeld Follies of 1935 which I brought to the public. Extraordinarily, the entire show was recorded on a series of 78 rpm discs, from the first note of the overture to the last note of the playout music. The sound is nowhere near perfect, but is available on CD. The second oldest is Very Warm For May (1939), Jerome Kern's last Broadway show and also his first failure. Waiting in the wings is Billy Rose's Jumbo, the only complete recording of a Rodgers & Hart score. The film, which starred Jimmy Durante, was made long after the Broadway production, in which he also starred. His co-star, Doris Day, was not in the original production.
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magic
"As far as Capt Jack, although the actor is from America the character is not."
Actually John Barrowman is from Scotland, but is family moved to the USA when he was a child.
Also the character Capt Jack first appears as a WW2 US airforce pilot fulfilling the "oversexed, overpaid, over here" stereotype.
It was a brave move for the writers of Dr Who as firstly Barrowman is openly gay, and secondly the character Capt Jack displays a predatory penchant for anything that moves ....
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214 bienvenue
"You're just making assumptions that all so called right-wing loons would care about something so trivial."
They do have form ...... remember Harry Potter?
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ref #209
marygrav wrote:
I am surprised that the Right-wing loonies allow Vampire Films to be shown in the US. Maybe they haven't caught the underlying theme of sex and homoeroticism in the films. Dracuala bites both males and females and both sexes call him Master. What is he the master of, if not sex.
I don't think the Right-wing holy rollers have figured that out yet. But like all hypocrite they believe in do what I say, not what I do or am doing to or with someone else.
_____________________________
In the last several years the only movie I can recalled being banned by legal means was a documentry of Hillary Clinton. It was the left who blocked that release
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RomeStu wrote:
magic
"As far as Capt Jack, although the actor is from America the character is not."
Actually John Barrowman is from Scotland, but is family moved to the USA when he was a child.
Also the character Capt Jack first appears as a WW2 US airforce pilot fulfilling the "oversexed, overpaid, over here" stereotype.
It was a brave move for the writers of Dr Who as firstly Barrowman is openly gay, and secondly the character Capt Jack displays a predatory penchant for anything that moves ....
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Well as Barrowman grew up in america, I would call him that.
the character was still an alien, I'll agree it was daring to have an openly bi character(Jack went both ways) but Davies took shgots at Americans and conservative too many times.
Give me Classic Who before JNT ruined it.
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220. At 08:16am on 20 Nov 2009, RomeStu wrote:
They do have form .....
(214. BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:You're just making assumptions that all so called right-wing loons would care about something so trivial)
Wasn't there a big to-do about some film about a girl getting possessed by the devil and being sick all over everybody? Might have been a Polanski one?
(Sorry, squirrel film knowledge, for reasons explained, can be a bit vague.)
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I am not sure I agree with Mark on this one. Our stereotyped Briton is more often than not portrayed as a sophisticated gentleman, a classy seducer, or a stiff butler.
Similarities with Margaret Thatcher and vampires are purely coincidental and unintentional, although I can see how easy it would be to tie the two and come up with a pretty scary specimen worthy of the most horrific Halloween movie ever. Come to think of it, such movie would be enhanced with a character portraying Dick "college deferment" Cheney as a butler with a stiff upper lip.
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# 219 RomeStu wrote:
"It was a brave move for the writers of Dr Who as firstly Barrowman is openly gay, and secondly the character Capt Jack displays a predatory penchant for anything that moves .... "
Not that surprising perhaps, as Russell T Davies, the current writer/producer of Dr Who, is also openly gay, and it has been a theme of at least some of his other TV productions.
Also perhaps not that shocking to have an openly gay actor/character on the Beeb - some of the best-loved figures in UK showbiz are openly gay - Stephen Fry, Ian McKellen, Graham Norton, etc. [The latter is openly Irish too...;-)]
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Isn't this all getting a bit too 'openly'?
BTW, I'm openly hetero (choose suffix)
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Ref 221, Magic
"In the last several years the only movie I can recalled being banned by legal means was a documentry of Hillary Clinton. It was the left who blocked that release"
Hillary Uncensored was not "blocked" by the left. The reason that "documentary" was not broadcast by all major US media outlets - including FOX - was because the claims levied against her by the right wing when everyone thought she was going to be the Democratic nominee was because there was no evidence to support the claims being made against her. BTW, this piece of Swift Boat-style trash has not been censored and it remains available on some mediums to those willing to pay for Goebbels-style trash.
The US media, and corporate America in general, are very conscious of the possibility of libel suits and take great care to avoid them.
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226. At 11:47am on 20 Nov 2009, Lord Nathan wrote:
"Isn't this all getting a bit too 'openly'?"
Dunno. Better a gay vampire than a necrophiliac one, I think.
"BTW, I'm openly hetero (choose suffix)"
In the interests of full disclosure, Squirrelist is a closet homo (sapiens).
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ref #227
Hillary Uncensored was not "blocked" by the left. The reason that "documentary" was not broadcast by all major US media outlets - including FOX - was because the claims levied against her by the right wing when everyone thought she was going to be the Democratic nominee was because there was no evidence to support the claims being made against her. BTW, this piece of Swift Boat-style trash has not been censored and it remains available on some mediums to those willing to pay for Goebbels-style trash.
The US media, and corporate America in general, are very conscious of the possibility of libel suits and take great care to avoid them.
______________________-
It's very hard for public figures in the U.S to sue. Otherwise several people in W could sue Oliver Stone and Michael Moore would be broke with his lies in his docudramas.
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Sorry, the blood suckers are in congress. All slaves to their vampire masters of big business and banking. They have no shame as they openly do the bidding of big business, like dogs on leashes, the make their daily deposits, usually on the White House lawn and blame the President for leaving the gate open. Jefferson was correct in stating that the people would need to run congress out of town about every eight years because the lobbyist would run everything is they didn't. The US Congress and the Chinese Politburo look and act very much alike.
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ref #230
ghostofsichuan wrote:
Sorry, the blood suckers are in congress. All slaves to their vampire masters of big business and banking. They have no shame as they openly do the bidding of big business, like dogs on leashes,
_________________-
Any reasons you excluded trial lawyers and labor uions?
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Sorry, the right wing, Christian, corporatistic conservatives are working today. No time to chat.
got to go, we're gathering wooden stakes and mallets for the winter.
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215 DC Credit where it's due dude. you're welcome.
On to them saying there are Brits with bad teef and nasty agenda's.
Too true
look at tony.
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"Of course to put down any sort of speculation, the British character could never accomplish what the American hero can because they lack the ingenuity, charisma, audacity, and personal drive."
Only in American movies. For ingenuity, charisma, audacity, personal drive and suave sophistication I can't think of American hero who can touch "Bond. James Bond."
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZwM3GvaTRM
Sorry vampire are best left to Buffy.
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~ 225
Oscar Wilde, Noel Coward, Terence Rattigan, Dirk Bogarde, John Gielgud, and their many successors who lighten our lives. All of them brilliant, inventive people - who at least nowadays aren't going to be pursued for their private preferences and private lives.
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Ingenuity, Charisma, Audacity etc.
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In light of recent developments, Mr Mardell, points exceedingly well taken.
And all manner of puns intended. As stated before: a genre, an Art form.
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So sorry ~
My Ingenuity, Charisma, Audicity post had its "post" button before it was ready .....
..... Anyway, the most accomplished presenter at present on British radio and television is the charming Graham Norton - who isn't afraid to advertise that he is Irish and Gay.
I believe he comes from West Cork - as did the late great much-mourned Danny La Rue - so there must be something in the spring water round those parts.
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220:
Yes, I remember Harry Potter; a few old crazies didn't like the message, but there was never a movement to ban the movies or the books.
I thoroughly enjoyed everyone of em.
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john-in-dublin & wanderingangus
I may be being over-sensitive, but I feel you have taken my comment on John Barrowman as Capt Jack the wrong way.
The implication was not that it was brave to cast a gay man in a bisexual role - I am aware of the huge number of highly talented gay men and women in entertainment (and many other walks of life) .... and to me their sexuality has no relevence.
My point (not clearly expressed) was more the idea that creating the character of Capt Jack was brave .... and in fact thinking about it again, perhaps "bold" would have been a better word .... given that Doctor Who is officially a children's programme (even though it has proved very popular with adults, myself included). I meant it as a positive comment on the way Russell Davies pushed a taboo and no one blinked.
Rather refreshing really, considering that little thing in Engand called the Daily Mail.
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The new movie which will feature Baracula is now being filmed in washingvania US. Co, starring Mummipelosi and Barney Frankenstein.
The movie is called 'Bitten by fox"
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Anglophone #110: '"Having watched Saving Private Ryan you would be forgiven for not knowing that British & Canadian forces made up the majority of troops going ashore. U571
and the supposed capture of an Enigma machine by US forces is frankly insulting. In Braveheart, William Wallace as played by the ridiculous Mel Gibson marries a woman born several years after his death! Gibson pops up again in the execrable The Patriot in which his revolutionary zeal is fuelled by the sight of redcoats herding the population of a village into a church and setting it on fire...an act made popular by the Waffen SS some centuries later. There is not a scrap of evidence to suggest that British troops ever did such a thing but hey...why let the facts interfere with a staunchly anglophobic message."
"Saving Private Ryon" is about a group of American troops, given a mission to save one particular American soldier. And as British, Canadian and American forces didn't opporate together in the D-day landings, it would have been historicly incorrect to show such physically close colaboration and cooperation between our troops in the film. General Montgomery, however, is talked about quite a few times by Tom Hanks's character. "U571" is patheticly embarrissing. There is no defense for that. And I bet the script writers and director of "The Patriot" are still kicking themselves for not omiting that church burning scene after all the undoubtable wholly justifyable backlash from the British people they must have received.
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urnestview #72: '"The British are portayed as crooks, sly, underhand and not to be trusted."
And Americans are both portrayed in British media, and believed to be by a large swathe of the British public to be inconsiderate, disrespectful and ignorant. What else is new?
"Perhaps you would like to write a SERIOUS piece on how the popular media influences individuals in society by the constant reinforcement of steriotypes."
Oh that would be a great idea!! Except I'd be too tarifyed to read it.
Stereotypes are a real bitch, aren't they?
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Well, not all sexy vampires are British, Wesley Snipes is hot and noble in Blade, and not all vampires are sexy, think of poor Jules of "Fat White Vampire Blues"...'who, joined by a transvestite vampire trained by Tibetan monks sets out to reclaim New Orleans for the gluttonous while avoiding the plots of the always nefarious strategic helium reserve....' or Max Schreck in Nosferatu....he was pretty creepy looking.
On the serious side, vampires are cannibal undead parasites. This vampire admiration trend is likely a conspiracy media plot of the aritocratic wealthy to inure the masses of normal not-very-wealthy people to their plight as host/victims. "Capital is dead labor, which, vampire-like, lives only by sucking living labor, and lives the more, the more labor it sucks." Karl Marx.
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Mel Gibson just plans sucks and his movies are usually void of historical facts whether it Jesus,Apocalypto(Mayan),American Revolution,or Scottish/English battles,I guess he cares more for entertainment than history.What is with Aussie Christian Right in US anyway,The guy who opened Creation Museum is Aussie and now the guy handing out Darwin Books with Kirk Cameron.We have enough of our own homegrown Christian Right why are we importing them from Australia.
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#246 - Ah ha! Obviously more of the conspiracy plot unfolding
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The USA has been in love with the British ever since the James Bond movies and the Beatles/British Invasion. James Bond is the coolest of the cool cats, the man who always gets the ladies (from all around the world, of course), the one who can rescue himself from any situation and the best comedic lines. James Bond may be fictional, but he is a legendary hero. Ladies love him, guys love him, just about everyone. Even though there is some borderline cheesiness, James Bond movies always have great action/plots. The British Invasion with the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Stones, Who, ect. are bands still listened to by youngsters today. I know this because I am one and have lots of friends who listen to British bands. So I would say that Great Britain has definitely got the talent and the moves to be completely unique in their own right.
The Twilight series is popular, but it does not come close to Interview with the Vampire, for me. IWTV was one of the spookiest, eeriest vampire movies, but there was something about it that you just don't forget it very quickly. I guess with IWTV, Tom Cruise and Brad Pitt were the two leading vampires and they were both American. So vampires are not always British. But the British always bring it on. Truly good actors/actresses.
Great Britain is never called England, but there is the Queen of England. I find this interesting, as it is a country with two names. Of course, with language, we call it English rather than British. With people, it is the British rather than the English. But in the USA, we refer to ourselves as English American over British American, which sounds strange. I just say European American, though, because there are different European genes intertwined. Just a thought. Lol.
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It seems I owe an apology to the Christian Right for wondering why they don't have a problem with vampire movies ..... I should have looked closer to home (about a mile actually)
The vatican has branded Twilight "deviant" and "a moral vaccuum" .... well, they'd know,eh ;-)))
http://uk.movies.yahoo.com/20112009/5/vatican-brand-new-moon-deviant-0.html
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194. At 8:27pm on 19 Nov 2009, squirrellist wrote:
188. McJakome:
"Hmm. Suppose they don't eat hot cross buns either then? (Or maybe you don't have them in the States.)"
Of course we have them here [in Massachusetts]. Don't forget that Massachusetts was the first British colony to declae UDI. [qv. Ma Provincial Congress on October 7, 1774, assumed all governmental authority outside British occupied Boston].
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Sorry, faeyth, but I am a huge fan of Mel Gibson. His movies are among my familiy and friend's most favored. Almost every movie Mel has been in, I would give an A plus to, especially Braveheart and Mad Max. Go Mel!
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Invisible Phantom plane brings down building number 7, owners worry that (cia operations inside had foreseen the event and barely had enough time to get out with all the equipment intact, not enough time to warn anyone) they still owe 8 years rent. In other news, OBL accidentally discharged his AK 47 nearly missing Gen, McChrystal, however 600 nearby blackwater ops weren't so fortunate. Police in Texas arrested 3 American citizen that were planning to enter the Mexican border illegally, allegedly to buy swine flu shots. Judge, Francisco villa esq, imposed a 250,000 dollars cash bail. He warned, "further attempts to bypass our national health care policy will not be tolerated, cheaply". One correspondent in Afghanistan, after having seen the movie, "The sixth Sense" has radioed in reports to our network, in which he says "I see dead people". Hillary Clinton addressed the white house today, President Karzai has assured me that there will be no more corrupt government there, " I believe and hope this president will make a clean sweep" she said. We will not be supporting a multi trillion dollar rebuilding effort in Afghanistan, Just to have it blow up in our faces. "It takes a village to raise a child". While not immediately declining Karzai's offer of vice president, she says she is quite content(verb) to be the US secretary of state, but that she felt the offer was moving.
The Carpathian mountains in Romania have been inhabited for centuries by vampirical beings. A source who spoke to us, (on the condition of anonymity)revealed that Hugh Hefner in collaboration with Nelson Rockefeller, sponsored an underground facility, with luxurious amenities." everyday its a holiday" commented the source.
Now back to M. Mardell...
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Mad Max were good but not based on any historical events.But they are his best Movies.But that was a long time ago.Like Arnold maybe he should consider retirement.
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With so much emphasis on male British performers, no-one has mentioned an older, female and largely forgotten icon of American television, Vampira. There is also the more contemporary Elvira who bills herself as Mistress of the Dark, a name rife with sexual overtones.
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To me the stereotype of Britain is trying to get by on the cheap, a nation of muddlers. Take this one TV series. The main props were a 20 foot long scarf, a policeman's telephone box that was supposed to be a time machine, and a lot of old metal trash cans bolted together that were the masters of the universe. In real life Brits were going to show NASA how to get to Mars at 1/8 the cost. But while NASA's two American built Martian rovers worked for years sending home pictures, far far beyond the three months hoped for and expected, the Beagle II disappeared never to be heard from again. Perhaps it fell through a worm hole or just happened to cross paths with a policeman's telephone box traversing the universe in search of Daleks.
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#256. MarcusAureliusII: "To me the stereotype of Britain is trying to get by on the cheap, a nation of muddlers. Take this one TV series. The main props were a 20 foot long scarf, a policeman's telephone box that was supposed to be a time machine, and a lot of old metal trash cans bolted together that were the masters of the universe. In real life Brits were going to show NASA how to get to Mars at 1/8 the cost."
Since Dr Who started some years before any landing on Mars or the moon, I can't see one wisp of truth in the last sentence. Although the production has achieved cult status, as I recall it was originally in the time slot which had been "Children's Television" in earlier years (successor to radio's "Children's Hour") and had a budget that was little more than nil. The target audience was far younger than the few adults who watched - at tea time, no less.
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Dr.Who?
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Virtual garlic, please.
Somebody.
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237. At 6:56pm on 20 Nov 2009, wanderingangus wrote:
"Ingenuity, Charisma, Audacity etc."
_________
Some time ago I was walking north on Avenue of the Americas in the wee hours of the morning when a van with three young women in it stopped to, er, um, ask if I needed a lift, or something.
It seems to me they said their names were something like "Ingenuity, Charisma and Audacity", too.
Or were those merely advertised character traits ...
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#260. Interestedforeigner: "Some time ago I was walking north on Avenue of the Americas"
Even this Brit who lives on the Left Coast knows that locals call it Sixth (Avenue)! Apropos of the late night invitation, when returning to London some thirty five years back, a time when Soho was still considered to be the "naughty" part of the West End, a friend and I were strolling along an almost deserted Old Compton Street (far different to what it is today) and from the other side of the street "Audacity" called over "Want a good time, dearie?". Since I responded negatively to the solicitation, she countered "'Ow about me bruvver then?" All in the family! A profession older than vampirism, which neither a cross, garlic nor the law can curtail.
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Somebody started calling Britons 'Brits'. It is ugly, ugly, ugly, but all sorts of people starting using it - like parrots. Even BBC newsreaders! 'Britons' is a perfectly good word. Do your bit for decent English and start using it. Perhaps others will start copying!
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ref #255
David_Cunard wrote:
With so much emphasis on male British performers, no-one has mentioned an older, female and largely forgotten icon of American television, Vampira. There is also the more contemporary Elvira who bills herself as Mistress of the Dark, a name rife with sexual overtones.
______________________
Many of would like to forget Elvira as many people from the U.K might want to forget Colin Baker's potrayal of Dr Who.
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Speaking of vampiric anglophilia...'effete young chap'...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVrlpxqlZ0M
dont often see them thar effete young chaps much up in Alasker
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256. At 01:56am on 21 Nov 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
To me the stereotype of Britain is trying to get by on the cheap, a nation of muddlers."
To me the stereotype of people in New Jersey is Tony Soprano gunning down another woman. gangster etc.
The stereotype of Baltimore seems to be drugs and a whole city given over to corruption and anarchy
But that is why stereotyping is so ridiculous
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Ref. 262, Michael Trott:
"'Britons' is a perfectly good word. Do your bit for decent English and start using it. Perhaps others will start copying!"
'Limeys' is a perfectly good word, too. We could start using that again, if you don't like 'Brits'.
It's American and Canadian slang. You don't have a choice.
So, there.
It's not as bad as calling the French 'frogs'.
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Ref. 265, Simon:
"The stereotype of Baltimore seems to be drugs and a whole city given over to corruption and anarchy"
Pfft! Silly Brit! Everyone knows that's Chicago. Jeez!
Baltimore is all about urban decay.
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267. Andy
Imagine that.
And all along I thought it was Newark.
Or Buffalo.
Or could it have been the Big Easy?
Or maybe it was Miami?
Too much choice on that one.
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nd I thought it was politics and in Washing ton.
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Anglophone: "Pierce Brosnan is Irish and not British...US audiences can comfort themselves with that when he gets the girl"
This is one of the most asinine statements I've ever read. Who cares if Brosnan is Irish? The character is British and everybody expects him to get the girl not because he's British or American or Chinese, but because he's James Bond. If you think American audiences need to "comfort themselves" because a British actor got the girl that the script writers gave him, you need to pull your head out.
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Simple Simon;
"To me the stereotype of people in New Jersey is Tony Soprano gunning down another woman. gangster etc."
Pretty tame stuff...for someone from the Bronx like me. I'll bet before a Bronx Bomber got to him, he was called Tonny Baritone.
Ill-o-nausean, it's a free country. You are entitled to your opinion...even though it's wrong. This American at least has NEVER been infatuated with the British. Very much regretted the beatle infestation of the 1960s. Now a good movie about Chicago was... Jason Robards playing big Al Capone in The Saint Valentine's Day Masacre. That was a movie worth remembering.
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Those who applaud the UN for their report on Israel are quite right.
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With all due respect for the excellent Bienvenue, I find New Orleans positively creepy. The air is heavy, the people live in an artificial, desperate enthusiasm despite centuries of hopelessness and oppression, and there is a constant awareness of the presence of a vast leviathan's immediate and inexorable movement - the surging mass of the fluid Mississippi.
I could not live there, although it is fascinating to visit - rather like reading and smelling and drowning in a great Gothic or noir romantic novel, or being trapped in one of those vampire movies - but only for a time, and then out again into the bright sunlight - you desperately hope.
Even in the piney woods of extreme northern Louisiana where I once worked, the darkness at night is so dense that a bright street light casts only a narrow cone of light on the ground immediately beneath it.
Mark, I suggest you make this one of the first cities you visit in inner America. I would say the first, but I fear it might color all your other impressions of us.
KScurmudgeon
lilly-livered yankee
others' experience will, of course vary
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seanspa wrote:
Those who applaud the UN for their report on Israel are quite right.
__________________________________-
A lot of those same cowardly voters are the same ones who want to restrict free speech by claiming that criticism of their religion is more important and should be a human rights violation.
Israel should rightly ignore the U.N vote and do what they what they need to protect themselves, since they have proven that Iran is supplying terrorists with arms; which the U.N has ignored.
Obama showed weakness once again by joining the HRC which should abolished.
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#274 Majik
A lot of those same cowardly voters are the same ones who want to restrict free speech by claiming that criticism of their religion is more important and should be a human rights violation.
Any criticism of Israel is, to you, an attack on the Jewish faith; and you have the nerve to call opponents of Israel anti-semites! You don't like it when Moslims make a stand against Islamophobia.
Israel should rightly ignore the U.N vote and do what they what they need to protect themselves, since they have proven that Iran is supplying terrorists with arms; which the U.N has ignored.
Which UN votes have Israel not ignored? The UN also ignored US collaberation with the terrorist IRA. The US government did nothing to crack down on those terrorist supporters.
The only people who talk about the abolition of the HRC support human rights violations against a particular group. You are showing your true colours. Again.
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To MagicKirin, dceilar
If I may ask a question...
What helps you differentiate between people who distort reality to fit a preconceived narrative and those that try to promote an accurate description of a situation?
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ref #275A lot of those same cowardly voters are the same ones who want to restrict free speech by claiming that criticism of their religion is more important and should be a human rights violation.
Any criticism of Israel is, to you, an attack on the Jewish faith; and you have the nerve to call opponents of Israel anti-semites! You don't like it when Moslims make a stand against Islamophobia.
(I am refering to an AP report from Saturday that the same group of moslem countries are promoting restricting free speech)
Israel should rightly ignore the U.N vote and do what they what they need to protect themselves, since they have proven that Iran is supplying terrorists with arms; which the U.N has ignored.
Which UN votes have Israel not ignored? The UN also ignored US collaberation with the terrorist IRA. The US government did nothing to crack down on those terrorist supporters.
(The U.S goverment never supported the IRA certain private indviduals did and they were prosecuted. Senator Kennedy support Irish unification but never supported IRA terrorism)
The only people who talk about the abolition of the HRC support human rights violations against a particular group. You are showing your true colours. Again.
(Yes I am showing my true colors opposing the hypocricy of the U.N, who ignores subjugation of women, stoning of moslems who covert to other religion, human rights violation in Burma and Zimbawe. The Plaestinians and their supported have prmoted this myth of a homeland they have no right to)
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ref #276
2009, _marko wrote:
To MagicKirin, dceilar
If I may ask a question...
What helps you differentiate between people who distort reality to fit a preconceived narrative and those that try to promote an accurate description of a situation?
_____________________
I don't know how you can talk to people like Dec and his ilk such the ones on the Iran HYS who think Iran nuclear program is peaceful, they suffered from cognitive dissoance.
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Mark – Vampires? Good grief. Is that all the popular Media care about? Buff(y) bloodsuckers of either sex? And Wolfmen of various sorts on the way too I hear the Howling all the way over the Atlantic. Deafening.
Vampire/Werewolves? It used to be called toothsome but it is being flogged to (un) death this side of the water via various TV series. To much being “staked” on it in my view – this fad. American Werewolf In London was the last word as far as this film buff is concerned. Other vampiric films are available.
CGI is wonderful but it is just that! Computer Generated Image. No effort involved at all – for thespians seemingly and the Rick Bakers – special effects maestros - I stand in awe of that breed!
I must stop watching America. I am fasting losing all interest in the entire country. And that is wrong. It is what we get to see over here I suppose. The Health Care Bill – I could care less it about now – especially as a few Democrats are so grudging in their support for it - they announce they will support thus far and no further? I was cheering acceptance of it – Health Care Bill – IF a majority of the USAs elected representatives wanted it – but its portrayal sometimes is something out of a fictional Transylvania – no offence real Transylvania – with townsfolk bearing firebrands rushing towards the Castle Of Health Care monster to ……..well I don’t know?
I just turned C-Span off again. It was a headline seen and I mischievously bite into its jugular – as is my vein - allegedly.
The paper headline was I assume another plug for a book I have no intention of reading. No offence writer of same. I read some “rogue” allegedly misspells that word – rogue as ROUGE to sell another tome? Fangs for the memory. Sorry Mister Bob Hope. He came from Eltham you know? Eltham in little ye old England town!
the pitbull in the china shop = shh ban up on the hill - cite pit?
Quakermass and the Pit. Oh no. I misspelt something there myself didn't I? Quatermass! Quatermass, steelpulse! No offence anyone. lol
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MK
Much to the surprise and horror of those who hated America and wanted to see it attacked again, it hardly matters what hot air the diplo-squawks in a building on the East River in New York City emit, the perceived vital national security interests of a nation including the United States cannot be deflected by their noise. That is the lesson President Bush taught Europe, the American extreme left, Saddam Hussein, and the rest of the world. Those who think that because Barack Obama is now President that this has changed will learn a lesson from him that it isn't the individual in the Oval Office who makes the decisions concerning what the threats are and how to respond to them but a vast cadre of professional intelligence agencies, military experts and others at least in the US government. So the UN's report about Israel will fall on deaf ears. I'm afraid one day we will awake to the news that the US and Israel have launched a coordinated military attack on Iran. How extensive and sustained this attack will be, what its nature will be is known only to those who have already planned it. Time is quickly running out while the world dithers and the media is asleep. Failure to impose and enforce strong effective sanctions against Iran will forgo the last hope of a non military solution to the growing threat Iran poses. All other considerations are irrelevant.
If there was ever any doubt, it should be clear by now that there isn't going to be a Palestinian state anytime in the forseeable future and probably not ever. Whatever the resolution of the status of the Arabs who live in what is left of territories lost by Egypt, Jordan, and Syria in their war to destroy Israel in 1967, a nation cobbled together from these separated pieces of land under a false pretext of a Palestinian People that never existed before 1967 isn't the one that will occur. The false expectations of creating this state are a dangerous diversion which should be set aside once and for all while other solutions such as the re-incorporation of them into Jordan and Egypt should be considered. Jerusalem and the settlements sanctioned by the Israli government are not negotiable and the Golan Heights shouldn't be either. 1967 is ancient dead history and the UN can go pound salt.
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"State authorities assert that Charity was more than 50% damaged by Katrina, & that FEMA owes the "full replacement value" of the building which is $492 million.
But FEMA puts the damage at a paltry $124 million, & has so graciously offered to settle the matter for $150 million because FEMA argues that most of the damage was due to poor maintenance of the depression era building.
The whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth for sure." BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
220:
Wait until Bella Pelosi and Obama suck the life out of your rights and your money. The government is broke, in debt, and looking to suck the live out of its citizens to support themselves in the next election. Vampires do exist, just the taste they have is for $$$$. I take a bite from the Brits with their bad teeth over that. An their are evil Dutchmen, Goldmember, send the farzah away.
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Hope? – Obama, Abbas, Abunimah and Morrisons
A letter to a Christian Zionist
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The one state already exists. The problem is that it’s an apartheid state, in which half the people are citizens without nationality (the Palestinian Israelis), or residents whose residency can be revoked at any time (east Jerusalem), or subjects of military occupation (the West Bank and Gaza). The Palestinian question is a question of human and civil rights, of equality. Two-state dream talk takes the focus away from this.
But the vast majority of Israeli Jews oppose equal rights for the natives of Palestine, preferring the status quo or some other permutation of the bantustan model. As a result, many liberal ‘realists’ in the West tell the Palestinians they must forget equality in one state. In a typically excellent article,
Ali Abunimah points out that until the final years of apartheid in South Africa, the vast majority of South African whites, including many opponents of apartheid, refused to countenance one man – one vote. But minds were changed by the positive vision of an inclusive future offered by the ANC and by an international campaign of boycott, divestment and sanctions."
Qunfuz
Discuss.
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#272. 9, seanspa: "Those who applaud the UN for their report on Israel are quite right."
And, with respect, this post is inappropriate and quite wrong. Thus far we have had a pleasant diversion from Washington and the Middle East; now it's going to descend into the mindless and endless banter about a subject which has been done to death. If there had been a connection with a Jewish vampire, or a vampire played by a Palestinian I might see some point. Unless of course, Seanspa was implying that, like vampires themselves, Israel is a blood sucker.
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The biggest on the US aid programme.
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-- Council on Foreign Relations
A boycott would be more appropriate, wouldn't it?
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Seanspa.
GRRR sniff sniff, Ere whats Iran got to do with the price of eggs in China?
DC asks a good one. WHY.
Seeing as the gloves seem to have been taken off and a bar brawl is inevitable , Grizzly.
I pointed out earlier that Bad outlook seems to think that when His hospital needs fixing the Feds should pay.
But his and your argument is that there is no requirement for health care to be provided by the Federal State.
So why should my money from Oregon go to build His underwater hospital to be built in a river delta where they can't be bothered to allow the soil to keep building up as it did when forming the delta.
Hey DUDE the people of NO New orleans should pay for their own hospital. get some money together, have a bake sale.
but according to you ALL there is NO REQUIREMENT FORTHE FEDS TO PROVIDE HEALTH CARE or Hospitals I would assume.
You guys say let the poor pay their way. well it is a bit of the same in this case.
YOUR RULES.
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286 Yes and maybe a few non binding condemnations of Israel while we are at it.
Yes sean.
Lets Play
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270 j
You should be right but I will report that some who think the IRA were freedom fighters do think in a strange manner.
JinD posted some interesting remarks the other day
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Here's a pile of Vampires. sucking from the "faithful"
https://store.coralridge.org/the_mysterious_islands.aspx
this is what they get instead of David attenborough shows on a sunday here.(USA)
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LordNathan'sFamousHotDogs;
If there ever was a foreign blood sucker that drained American money and lives it was Britain. When adjusted for inflation and taken over time, the amount of American money wasted bailing out Britain from two world wars it lost and preventing a third not to mention the countless tens of thousands of American lives ruined and lost dwarfs anything ever done for Israel or anyone else except maybe France. Clearly your attitude is more evidence that it was a mistake.
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284. At 5:26pm on 22 Nov 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
"And, with respect, this post is inappropriate and quite wrong. Thus far we have had a pleasant diversion ...; now it's going to descend into ... a subject which has been done to death...."
_______
... but yet, will not die.
Bela Lugosi, nothing.
From vampires we go now to the invasion of the body snatchers, the land of the living dead, to zombies: the blog topic that simply will not die, no matter how often it is done to death. Arrrrrrgh!
We descend once again into the Levantine Rat-Hole.
How Appropriate.
Willard.
"Ben, the two of us ..."
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291. At 8:09pm on 22 Nov 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"If there ever was a foreign blood sucker that drained American money and lives it was Britain. When adjusted for inflation and taken over time, the amount of American money wasted bailing out Britain from two world wars it lost and preventing a third not to mention the countless tens of thousands of American lives ruined and lost dwarfs anything ever done for Israel or anyone else except maybe France."
_________
Two conflicts that vaulted America to prominence as the world's richest and greatest power, the world's great creditor, the world's great banker, where it did what was right and necessary for its own values to survive and thrive in a dangerous world - and grew stinking rich doing it. A position of unparalleled status and power since the time of Rome, now being thrown away by the baby boomers.
Have you been compelled to go to war in your lifetime?
Or have you lived a pretty cushy life, fat, dumb, and lazy in the suburbs? Or perhaps, instead, you wish you had been born in North Korea, or in Russia under Stalin, or better yet, China under Mao.
America did extremely well out of its participation in those two conflicts, and we are rich beyond the wildest imaginings of our grandparents because of it.
You don't seem to know which side your bread is buttered on.
Maybe what you really need to do is to stop and count your blessings.
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UndocumentedForeigner;
"America did extremely well out of its participation in those two conflicts, and we are rich beyond the wildest imaginings of our grandparents because of it."
Tell that to the countless millions of Americans whose family members; fathers, sons, brothers, uncles, fiancees were wounded or killed in those world wars. You really do stink.
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David,
And why do you reckon that's so? Because nobody's doing anything to solve it. Why did the Palestinians have to invent skyjacking except to get the West's attention?
Well they got our attention, but it ain't done a lot of good, and the decades just roll on by....we're in the seventh.
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294. At 10:16pm on 22 Nov 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
As it happens, a number of my forebears are among the dead. At an absurdly young age they paid for our independence. Every living member of our family is well aware of it. And I thank my lucky stars that we have never had to go to war in my lifetime. Don't try that stuff with me.
You have lived your entire life in the long shadow of those conflicts, in safety and security, with benefits and advantages that our ancestors could not have imagined. But instead of being thankful, you grouse on and on about Britain and France.
You should be counting your blessings instead of complaining all the time.
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#291. MarcusAureliusII: "If there ever was a foreign blood sucker that drained American money and lives it was Britain. When adjusted for inflation and taken over time, the amount of American money wasted bailing out Britain . . . dwarfs anything ever done for Israel . . ."
But will Israel ever pay it back?
#293. Interestedforeigner: "Two conflicts that vaulted America to prominence as the world's richest and greatest power, the world's great creditor . . ."
And now the world's greatest debtor.
#294. 09, MarcusAureliusII: "America did extremely well out of its participation in those two conflicts, and we are rich beyond the wildest imaginings of our grandparents because of it."
"Tell that to the countless millions of Americans whose family members; fathers, sons, brothers, uncles, fiancees were wounded or killed in those world wars."
Most sources estimate that in World War II, American casualties were 406,000 killed (including 6,000 merchant marine civilians;) 600,000 wounded and 5,600 American civilians killed. In World War I 116,516 Americans died. Hardly "countless millions".
"You really do stink."
Ditto.
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Canard;
Those were only the numbers of Americans wounded or killed. When you count up their relatives, friends, lovers, they numbered in the tens of millions. There probably wasn't a single family left untouched by the twho wars one way or another.
The money given to Britain during the war was not a loan. Money given afterwards was a loan. But because nobody knew how long it would take Bankrupt Europe to recover, termes were rediculously generous. 2% over 50 years. By the time it was paid back the last of it was a mere token, its original value had been completely eroded by five decades of inflation.
I am not surprised that as a European ex-pat you hate Israel and America's close ties with it. Too bad there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it. Not even President Obama can. He can't force them to do anything they don't want to whether it is to stop building in settlements, in East Jerusalem, give back land, or take in refugees. He'd better watch his step. Many of his supporters have closer affinity to Israel than they have to him. America's close ties to Israel don't come from lobbyists, it is becaue we like them. We like them much better than we like Brits. But don't take my word for it, listen to Sir Christopher Meyers' interview with Owen Bennet-Jones on BBC's archives. That was his opinion too.
Hey Canard, "MEGADITTOS TO YOU TOO!"
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So when do the Islamists in Britian declare independence an seize a portion of Britian for themselves like Kosovo? Perhaps France will have within itself a Islamic republic before Britian. By the way Rhodes Scholars have been chosen it may disturb some due to the possibly Jewish last names of many. But the radicals have to have a scapegoat. I don't see Jewish fanatics trying to shoot up and take over other countries to force them to their religion. Face it the world is a mess, until moderate Muslims condemn the radicals it will perpetuate on and on.
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#298. MarcusAureliusII: "Those were only the numbers of Americans wounded or killed. When you count up their relatives, friends, lovers, they numbered in the tens of millions. There probably wasn't a single family left untouched by the twho wars one way or another."
If you are going to count all relatives, friends and lovers, then the same must be done for Russia and the rest of the Allies. I doubt very much if you can remember WWII and consequently would have been little affected by it. Should you ever have the opportunity, see The Americanization of Emily which will provide a good illustration between what American had and the lives of the British.
"But because nobody knew how long it would take Bankrupt Europe to recover, termes were rediculously generous. 2% over 50 years."
Lord Keynes considered it a way to subjugate Britain to America.
"I am not surprised that as a European ex-pat you hate Israel and America's close ties with it."
I don't "hate" Israel as you hate Britain, France and Europe in general. I've never been there and apart from reading, have very little knowledge of the country. But as an American taxpayer I do wonder if my money is being spent wisely by supporting a country which appears to me to be a malcontent among nations. There has been a Palestine since biblical times and I see no reason why a part of the area cannot be called Palestine just as Israel was declared in 1948.
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275. At 12:40pm on 22 Nov 2009, dceilar wrote:
"The UN also ignored US collaberation with the terrorist IRA. The US government did nothing to crack down on those terrorist supporters."
Once again, I remind all of you that this statement is, in my own personal experience untrue. It may be that not enough, in your estimation, was done [with which I can agree], but "nothing" is inaccurate, and it unfairly stigmatizes those like Sen. Edward Kennedy and Irish American law enforcer who did their duty despite [in some cases] having sympathy for the IRA.
I would also remind Britons that their military defenders include not a few persons of Irish Catholic antecedents. Are you equally dismissive of their efforts on your behalf?
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To David_Cunard, re 300. At 02:05am on 23 Nov 2009.
How often have you striven with the same old vampires, and here they are, risen again? Nothing seems to work, have you considered a wooden stake marinated in a brew of holy water and garlic juice?
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302. At 03:37am on 23 Nov 2009, McJakome wrote:
Nothing seems to work, have you considered a wooden stake marinated in a brew of holy water and garlic juice?
(Sigh.)
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#302. McJakome: "How often have you striven with the same old vampires, and here they are, risen again? Nothing seems to work, have you considered a wooden stake marinated in a brew of holy water and garlic juice?"
I fear not even such a brew would have any effect, for they are - at least from their opinions printed here - Zombies, the Living Dead.
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Canard, Obama had better stop wasting his time tilting at the same illusary windmill of peace in the Middle East that other recent American Presidents have and get down to the business of running America, solving American problems or he will lose control of Congress next year and his bid for re-election in three years. If he continues to relax the grip on controlling Islamic terrorst threats to the US President Bush created and there is another 9-11 or worse on his watch, he won't last even that long. He will Nixon on out of here. What a tragedy that would be, the first African American President forced to resign in disgrace. It would be a terrible setback for America in many ways. Bringing the 9-11 terrorists on to American soil unnecessarily and allowing them what amounts to a civil criminal trial instead of a military tribunal is a very bad mistake. If an Islamic terrorist attack happens in the US, all hell will break loose. It won't be the Arab street set ablaze but the American street. There will be an open revolt against the Federal government and his own party will lead the charge if they know what is good for them.
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Ref 305, MAII
"Bringing the 9-11 terrorists on to American soil unnecessarily and allowing them what amounts to a civil criminal trial instead of a military tribunal is a very bad mistake."
We are either a nation of laws and true promoters of freedom and democracy, or we are no better than the thugs that attacked us on 9/11. I do, otherwise, agree with most of what you said. President Obama must focus on domestic issues such as fiscal stability, job creation, industrial modernization, infrastructure, healthcare and revamping our substandard education system or he may end up being a one term President.
Historically, whenever a party has control of Congress and the White House it loses seats during the mid term elections, but unless the rate of unemployment improves within the next six months or so, the Democratic losses may exceed the norm in 2010.
U.S. foreign policy is of great interest to folks overseas, for obvious reasons, but it is of little interest to American voters when compared to domestic priorities. I think it will be a mistake to disengage completely in the Middle East, but his focus must be at home not abroad.
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MA "by "all hell will break loose" do you mean we willl have thousands of racist right wingers blogging till their finger tips drop off.
I agree that is hell.But the silence after is great.
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Amazing. I go offline for the weekend and the conversation thread turns from vampires and international pop-cultural paradigms.... to Palestine and Iran?? Really??? Wow.
I mean - these are very real foreign policy issues, but if all ya'll know about the US is our botched middle-east politc, then ya'll ain't seeing America for the trees. Woof.
_________________________
INTERESTING POINT
221. MagicKirin wrote:
"ref #209 marygrav --
'Maybe [Right Wing USA Nut-Jobs] haven't caught the underlying theme of sex and homoeroticism in the films. Dracuala bites both males and females and both sexes call him Master. What is he the master of, if not sex.'
I don't think the Right-wing holy rollers have figured that out yet. But like all hypocrite they believe in do what I say, not what I do or am doing to or with someone else." (Italics Mine)
Agreed... but rather than drop these folks into the hypocrite box, I tend to them of them as clueless folks in very very deep socio-political self-denial. It's more sad than maniacal. I pity the poor fools.
Oh... and I can pretty much guarantee that our Right-Wing-Nut-Job-Neighbors actually think the movie is a Satanic Film, a sign of the 'End-Times', have never read the books, will never send their children to see the movies -- largely BECAUSE of the sex/violence/homoeroticism of the film.
_____________________
MEANWHILE, BACK ON THE FARM...
Speaking of 'horror films' and 'american culture':
You know, I find these movies disgusting -- not because of the sexy Brit, not because of the homoeroticism -- but because of the glorified desensitization of sexual violence in film that's heavily marketed for young people.
I have two sons. I know about the books but haven't had time to read them. I will probably even 'net-flix' the movies once they're available.
BUT as a working mother in America's #1 murder-town* I have big problems with:
- sexy violence
- gender roles / subjugation of women
- dumbing down kids (don't watch the movie... read the book!!)
- marketing blood (too many bloody movies are popular w/ kids right now)
and heck, why not:
- perpetuation of intercultural stereo-types. (we have them. it's sad.)
_____
* About that Murder Stat:
Philly-Mom is cranky. Not only did the Phillies loose the series [*sighs sadly*], but I just saw a 2009 crime stat that posts Camden, NJ as America's No.1 Murder Capital! See, Camden is kind of Philadelphia's "East-Side." There is a river and a state line between us, but that's it. If you actually looked at Philadelphia's murder rate and added it to Camden's... damn. We'd be off the charts. Drugs. Gangs. Murder. What other people watch on TeeVee for fun, I read about in my local neighborhood newsletter fo' real. And I can tell you, it's not fun.
Suddenly, you see why Blood-Sport Film ain't so cute for some of us?
It ain't cause i'm some right-wing-nut-job...
I just don't like hearing about how folks are bleeding to death on the street a few block from my kid's school...
Knives coming to 5th grade...
50% High School Drop-out rate in Philly...
#1 Cause of death among young black men in Philly is homicide...
Arrests happening at the school bus-stop...
And then having bill-boards advertise sexy lips with blood dripping from them??!!??
-- I don' THINK so. It jus' ain't cool. Hear?
Fortunately, there are things to be Thankful for this week:
-- My Son's soccer team won the NW Philly Kid's Tournament! Ho-Yeah!!
-- I could finally afford a house this year! Fear Me. I am a 'Land-Owner'.
-- Mai kiz r smrt. theyz gud kidz.
-- I use lots of garlic when I cook. No Vampires here, thank you.
Happy Turkey Week. Gobble, Gobble.
PS - Mark: I'm driving south past Arlington in my way to my annual feast! I'll shout 'hello mark!' out the window as I crawl along I95, so listen up, okay?
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#305. MarcusAureliusII: "Canard, Obama had better stop wasting his time tilting at the same illusary windmill of peace in the Middle East . . ."
What does that post have to do with any of mine? Nothing, just another pointless rant from one of our resident zombies. If you must post the same thing over and over again, why not save your time - and ours - by simply writing "see my post at #X". Constant repetition does not make your point valid.
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Putting the bite on the planet
Take a break!
Or go the "whole hog"
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309. David_Cunard
'pointless rant from one of our resident zombies. '
Ah. Zombies. No, THAT would be fun.
Zombies Eat Brains because their own are rotting.
Zombies are unstoppable.
They would make a fun movie.
I took my sons to a fantastic showing of "Shakespeare and the Land of the Dead" just this past spring. Great Show. I highly recommend it. In hindsight, the Michael Jackson 'Thriller' montage was poignant with prophetic parody. I laughed. I cried. It was better than CATS.
Philosophical chewing gum happens.
It becomes its own windmill, does it not?
But, how can we sleep while our beds are burning?
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NATIVE AMERICANS CALL FOR DEPORTATION
OF 299 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
;-)
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287 Fluffy:
Hey DUDE,
We are talking about a building here, a hospital, not Federally funded insurance plans; in other words public infranstructure of the type explicited mentioned in the Constitution owned by the state.
We are also talking about a building that is a historic landmark from the 1930s that was flooded because of shoddy levees built by the Army Corps of Engineers.
This is money that FEMA is supposed to pay, but they are purposely dragging their feet and looking for any way to not pay the amount necessary to repair the building.
You ask, why should you pay to repair this building?
You should and you will regardless of the amount eventually paid out because it is the just thing to and it is the government's job to do; it'd be no different than the situation you'd be faced with if Oregon was hit by an earthquake and or a tidalwave, or if the rivers flowing through Portland broke through substandard Federally built levees, flooding otherwise dry land.
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#313. BienvenueEnLouisiana: "public infranstructure of the type explicited mentioned in the Constitution owned by the state."
I'm curious as to what part of the United States Constitution explicitly mentions providing a hospital? Roads and (now) railroads are generally considered to be "infrasructure" - but hospitals?
"You ask, why should you pay to repair this building?
You should and you will regardless of the amount eventually paid out because it is the just thing to do . . . "
Using that argument, it is the just thing for the government to provide universal healthcare; it shouldn't be available only to the rich, the poor and the elderly, but everyone, from the humblest home to the largest mansion. That would be just. Nevertheless, I don't see how this dovetails in with vampires or even zombies!
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312. Lord Nathan -- Amen, Dearest Lord!
Um... if I'm One 7,654th Cherokee, can I stay?
I'm also 1/16th Irish. Just like Obama.
They' ain't nuthin' like a little Black Irish to brighten your day.
Blurred ethnicity. It's rather fun.
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314. David_Cunard wrote:
"Nevertheless, I don't see how this dovetails in with vampires or even zombies!"
Duh, that's easy. With universal healthcare, we'd have to cover zombies. They don't work and therefore they don't pay taxes. They have terrible medical issues. AND - they are undead. Can you imagine the drain on our social infrastructure?
OBVIOUSLY - we should all become vampires. They are healthy, educated, and have a consistent diet that does not require unfortunate acres of farming (good for the environment, don't you think?). They are fully capable of holding a job and contributing to society. Besides, maybe then we'd all have cool European accents and be sexy, thin and beautiful! Yay!
If we were all vampires, then we wouldn't need all this evil communist medical restructuring. We'd all already be dead. Excellent.
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DC in #314:
"I don't see how this dovetails in with vampires or even zombies!"
There isn't always a clear relationship between the blog subject and subsequent posts, a post quote and the following text, questions asked and answers supplied in response to them.
I think vampires and zombies are related but have no evidence to support this.
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I'm sorry, DC, but you're missing the point.
This is not some privately owned hospital in the unprotected marshes or batture lands.
This is a state owned public use hospital, managed by the Louisiana State University system in Downtown New Orleans that was flooded because the levees that were built by the Feds miles away were substandard. In otherwords, it's the Feds fault and they should pay for the damages to this multi-million dollar facility.
It's no different than you getting into a car accident where you are at fault and your insurance has to pay for the damages to someone else's car; in this case, the Army Corps of Engineers is at fault and FEMA is their insurance company that stubbornly refuses to pay out.
How some of you can't understand the difference between a public use facility and Obama's people based healthcare plan is beyond me.
I guess public schools, VA hospitals, libraries, police and fire stations, and other civic buildings aren't considered by y'all to be public use infrastructure either.
DC, you are right about this not really pertaining to the topic, but if you scroll up you'll be able to see how this topic developed.
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This has probably been said here...But Gary Oldman as Dracula in the best Dracula movie ever (other than Nosferatu, 1922) "Bram Stoker's Dracula"
He made that movie for me..tho didn't like the romantic part ...like my Dracula EVIL
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#318. BienvenueEnLouisiana: "I'm sorry, DC, but you're missing the point.
This is not some privately owned hospital in the unprotected marshes or batture lands.
This is a state owned public use hospital, managed by the Louisiana State University system in Downtown New Orleans that was flooded because the levees that were built by the Feds miles away were substandard. In otherwords, it's the Feds fault and they should pay for the damages to this multi-million dollar facility."
You didn't answer my question about where any of this is found in the Constitution. LSU and/or the State of Louisiana was derelict in its duties by not having flood insurance - and then an insurance company could fight with the government. I don't think FEMA has ever been regarded as an insurance carrier. With regard to "public schools, VA hospitals, libraries, police and fire stations, and other civic buildings", no, they're not part of the infrastructure any more than hotels, private residences, restaurants and other facilities. A main highway or bridge, yes; a state hospital or other building, no.
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I couldn't care any less about vampires, I'm American and i long for the days of a good British rock band like Iron Maiden or Judas Priest.
I've had enough of all this pop crap produced by the U.S and the U.K.
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313 your angle is t odds with your core belief that the Feds have less control and do not owe anyone anything to do with health care.
You own argument thrown back at you.
"the constitution forbids it"
There is no constitutional argument that says the states should have their crap sorted out for them by the feds.
And If that state is one where they regularly refuse to FUND the building of their infrastructure then want to complain when it fails they should . Well any argument doesn't matter. according to you and many there just is no constitutional reason for funding the hospital by the feds so we don't have to discuss it further.
Dude It is your argument.
Live with it.
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320 DC
" a state hospital"
lol Now if the hospitals were owned by the state we could have another argument right. then they would be part of what is considered the vital infrastructure of the nation. But when they are just another hospital, why should we care . tell the people of New orleans to have a bake ale, a fund raiser.
maybe auction some gardening work to pay for it.
Anyway the good caring and giving people of america will give to the charity.
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"If a Brit is involved it's a good old British pound to a cent that if not a thinly disguised Mrs Thatcher, he or she is a toff, a con artist, a degenerate, or just someone with horrific teeth"
I know I'm a little late for this and as usual any post with Brits and Americans in a chat room usually dwindles down to petty arguing over anything but the actual subject. Of course I read this post and have been drawn into it.
Anyway I completly disagree with Mark's comment about British actors. First of all I have noticed that yes there are alot of British actors that get picked with evil or "not so nice roles". Of course your going to dwell on those roles and read into it. In saying that though there are also alot of roles that British actors have played that are heros. James Bond comes to mind. Who finances all these James Bond movies? Hollywood does.. Who is the hero? a British Spy who saves the world all the time. Does America have a spy that always saves the day? No..Hollywood has decided that a British Spy is our best bet. That's fine I love James Bond so we don't need one. Besides James Bond there are more recent British actors on our screens. Dr. Mallard in NCIS.. A very smart, witty British Doctor working with Naval Crime Scene investigators. I think this is the #1 show on TV right now or close to it.
What about Scotty in Star Trek? Chief Engineer always saves the day to get the crew out of trouble. Someone mentioned some other British characters, actually too many to count that are on our TV screens! There are alot of British comedians that have become hits on American TV shows.. Billy Connelly and Craig Ferguson. Ferguson is such a hit he has his own TV show here!! John Cleese has made it big here and hasn't been a bad guy yet.
In ending I would like to make an observation on this special relationship. Hollywood may be giving British actors evil roles sometimes but I have also noticed Hollywood hires British actors more than any other "foreign actors" on this earth. I'm sure there are alot of American actors out there that would like to get their start but are not being chosen. I think next time you should write a story or investigate the question. Why are so many British actors being hired over American actors? There must be something to it.I guess it's the accent or maybe you just have better actors..
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324 Jamie:
It isn't that English actors don't get to be good guys.
It is that the really evil villains and bad guys in Hollywood films are English quite a bit more often than anybody else, or so it seems.
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"It is that the really evil villains and bad guys in Hollywood films are English quite a bit more often than anybody else, or so it seems."
I have noticed that the English do get picked for bad guy roles quite a bit and there probably is a reason behind it in Hollywood. It's unfortunate that happens. I have also seen though that English/British actors are given very intellectual,witty roles where they are in charge. Look at the X-Men movies. Ian McKellen is a British actor and is a bad guy. He is in charge of all the bad guys. Patrick Stewart is a British actor, Professor Xavier who is in charge of all the good guy mutants. Look at the movies they place Michael Cain in. He is always a smart witty intellectual who gives advice or helps out a person in need.
I'm not denying that there is a habit of Hollywood placing English/British actors in bad guy roles but I'm also trying to bring to light the postive side or another point of view to this subject. In my opinnion Mark gives the impression that he and his fellow British people are offended by Hollywood placing British actors in bad guy roles which I would be offended too. But as an American I'm offended that all you see is the negative and not the bigger picture. The bigger picture to me is that British actors and their acccents are thought of so highly that they are being placed in every role.
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And, by and large, they're better actors.
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327. At 3:10pm on 25 Nov 2009, Lord Nathan wrote:
"And, by and large, they're better actors."
________
Well, maybe. But it seems to me you can find "bad actors" just about anywhere.
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Fluffy and DC:
Please read this article "New Orleans: A city without Charity":
http://www.southernstudies.org/2009/07/post-46.html
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BienvenueLouisiana (#329), that was an interesting article. I would want that building preserved for its architectural merit, whether it can be restored as a hospital or not.
I had heard that emergency services at a hospital in New Orleans were shut down by the storm because the emergency generators were below the flood level. Is that true? Is this the hospital? Not a particularly good plan, I think.
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329
bienvenue
look to be honest I would agree the feds should build your hospital. but then I think they should build ones here as well. where will i t stop. once the feds build you one, the next town will want one. eventually every city will be saying " we want our hospital".
It is not that I would disagree with your request. I would disagree with those saying "the feds have no business in health care"
Change the rules and your hospital might get built.
(with generators protected from flooding)
As to the architecture, that at least confirmed that a certain pill is an architect.
Not that there was much doubt when reading his comments on cement pours that got derided by all round him.;)
Hi Gary.
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