Will Karzai play ball?
President Obama's spokesman, Robert Gibbs, has successfully avoided calling for a second round in the Afghan elections, dancing nimbly around all the questions at his morning briefing. Apparently, the Downing Street spokesman did much the same thing. Mr Gibbs did repeatedly stress the need for a "legitimate" Afghan government, and a "credible partner". He said all the troops in the world wouldn't solve the situation without a partner who was willing to help.
The one senior figure who has explicitly called for a second round is the Swedish foreign minister, Carl Bildt: "If these results point towards the need for a second round, a second round must be held."
Is a difference of opinion emerging? Probably not. Western diplomats say that any pressure for a second round doesn't necessarily mean that one will happen or that it is their preferred solution. While a second vote would give the victor more legitimacy, the United States and the United Kingdom both really want Hamid Karzai to establish a more broadly based government, by including his rival Abdullah Abdullah.
What no-one can answer at the moment is what happens if Mr Karzai refuses to play ball. The hope in Washington is that he simply needs America too much to ignore its wishes. But if he does refuse a run-off vote, refuses a coalition, no-one can tell me what would happen next.
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~10~RS~)
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This seems to be a bit behind the curve, because, according to the front page of the BBC news, an election panel has determined that a runoff is required. Does it matter what western leaders say?
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Karzai is the latest victim of circumstances to satisfy domestic political priorities in the USA. Unfortunately for him, President Obama needs an excuse to postpone a decision on troop increases in Afghanistan and, ultimately, on whether or not an indefinite occupation of that country is in the best interest of the USA.
The last election was neither better nor worse than the preceding one. He is our puppet, the same way Saddam Hussein was decades ago, and he will remain in power and get or be denied support dependent on what our priorities and needs happen to be at a given time.
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I have the feeling Mark that Karzai will do as he's told. The Americans, more or less, put him in power. What they give, they can take away - just ask Saddam, opps forgot, he's dead!
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there is a bit of a double standard here in the international community.
Iran's Zimbabwe's and Venezuela's were far more corrupt yet they are not recieving the pressure Karzi is.
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Karzai and Abdullah Abdullah, those two were part of the government which spent its days fighting each other and bombing kabul...you want them to be the governemnt?
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Iran's Zimbabwe's and Venezuela's were far more corrupt yet they are not recieving the pressure Karzi is.
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Tell me, back in the days of cotton plantations and slaves, did the plantation owners applied more pressure on their neighbour's slaves to work even more harder or their own slaves?
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Unfortunately for him, President Obama needs an excuse to postpone a decision on troop increases in Afghanistan and, ultimately, on whether or not an indefinite occupation of that country is in the best interest of the USA.
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Your president obama needs to postpone troop increase(decision has already being made) so that pakistani troops can make situation for the in coming troops safe..the americans troops are already allowing the taliban to go over pakistani side in the hope that pakistani army would be able to kill as many as possible...Its a war of luxury,..not against terrorism and definatly not to secure usa..
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Afganistan has a history and it is not very pretty. Does the West think that because they say they have a better way that others will simply change centuries old customs, beliefs and social structure. Look at the early history of Western democartic institutions and you will find corruption in every form. The recent financial collapse was and is corruption of government. The entire process was government facilitated. Please look in the mirror before pointing fingers. Is the argument: We are less corrupt, or corrupt in different ways? In the West the citizens are allowed to vote(with limited choice)for those who will oversee the corruption and that is presented as a worthy goal. What we do know is that in the West, the poor are still poor and the rich are richer.
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Can we have a post that isn't about Afghanistan. Wasn't there a huge march in Washington the other week? I know it was hardly on Faux News, but I heard there was some gathering.
Jon Stewart skewered Fox News for covering every tea party protest in America (no matter how small) but not sending a reporter, or even a camera crew, to cover Sunday's gay rights march which included more than 75,000 protesters.
I love Jon Stewart! I feel better I've got that off my chest.
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No doubt Karzai forgets the old American axiom: Good friends lie for you in court, real friends help you bury the body.
I'm sure, if Karzai refuses to play ball, his former friends in Washington will start remembering where the bodies are buried.
Obama wants Afghans to have a government they can believe in. It will make our job easier in the long run. If Karzai isn't that government - and the people want Abdullah Abdullah - then I'm sure he can find a way to make it happen that they get the president they want.
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Here is a question, how many hundered years did it take for vatican to confess that Galileo was correct? four hundred years? The poor guy died a pathetic death.. How many years did it take for Madeline Albrite to to state the facts about CIA toppling prime minister Mossadegh of iran's popular democratic government. 50 yrs? Mossadegh the most popular leader of his time, also died quite a pathetic death..Neither vatican's confession or albright's confession was of no good. Both just restated the facts that the world already knew..
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Obama wants Afghans to have a government they can believe in. It will make our job easier in the long run. If Karzai isn't that government - and the people want Abdullah Abdullah
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People dont want his either, they have seen his past record..His only asset is that he can speak english, thats why even taliban offered him a post as their UN ambassador.which he refused, because he was massud's guy. If ever obama wants afghans to to have a government they can believe in and which can safe gaurd usa, he has to bring in taliban..He has to set aside personal grudge against mullah omar and some of his collegues, especially one called mullah wakil mutawakil, the poor guy tried to warn the americans about the sept 11 attack, but did the americans have the time to meet him or to listen to him? NO.
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Jon Stewart skewered Fox News for covering every tea party protest in America (no matter how small) but not sending a reporter, or even a camera crew, to cover Sunday's gay rights march which included more than 75,000 protesters.
I love Jon Stewart! I feel better I've got that off my chest.
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Good that you love jon stewart..We cannot do anything about how you feel about him, but we can kindly remind you that he is a comedian, who does a comedy show, to make you laugh..Next time you compare him to a whole tv channel, please remember this, being a comedian he has the luxury say things against fox.It would have been a different thing, if wolf B or fareed zakaria had said those things..or if john stewart was a host of some serious programe.
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ref #9
dceilar wrote:
Can we have a post that isn't about Afghanistan. Wasn't there a huge march in Washington the other week? I know it was hardly on Faux News, but I heard there was some gathering.
Jon Stewart skewered Fox News for covering every tea party protest in America (no matter how small) but not sending a reporter, or even a camera crew, to cover Sunday's gay rights march which included more than 75,000 protesters.
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How about the thin skinned Obama administration?
The lack of Transparency in the White House
how Charlie Rangel and tim Gietner are handeling tax policy and don't pay theirs
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The hope in Washington is that he simply needs America too much to ignore its wishes.
Washington, Washington, Washington! Almost no-one beyond the Beltway is concerned one way or the other. There are more pressing things for the average American Joe and Joanna. In America's second largest conurbation, the leading article in The Los Angeles Times concerns the preliminary injunction against enforcement of the ban on further medical marijuana dispensaries. Furthermore, The New York Times leads with an article which notes that the Federal Government will not pursue suppliers and users of cannabis. Those are today's headlines, not a concern about Mr Karzai. And why Downing Street has to be dragged into a blog about the USA is anyone's guess. Except for a few contributors to this and other blogs, no-one cares!
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Washington, Washington, Washington! Almost no-one beyond the Beltway is concerned one way or the other.
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Before you get fed up, i would like you to imagine that its below freezing point and you have been forced to leave your house..you are not only in a strange place but you are being consider as a terrorist suspect and while you have to stand in line for hours to register yourself and get a tent, you are also thinking if and when you go back,will you find your house still standing or not..Because this what more than 2000,000 people have been forced to do, and all because of washington, washington washington!. One day, in 5 yrs, you should go to south wazirstan and ask those people the price they paid to secure you while you were talking about pressing matters like marijuana..
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14. At 10:14pm on 19 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
How about the thin skinned Obama administration?
The lack of Transparency in the White House
how Charlie Rangel and tim Gietner are handeling tax policy and don't pay theirs.
Well Mr Rangel has been a target for Republicans for some time. And Mr Geithner has republican support.
But perhaps not completely. Mr Rangel is black, and it is known what Republicans' think of those people, and the party's recent foray into jewish antisemitism possibly explains its hatred of Mr Geithner.
It can't be ethical considerations as Mr Ken Calvert makes clear.
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9, dcellar.
The media is known for not covering marches, parades, protests, etc., with any degree of veracity. Some years ago my daughter was in Washington and watched the protest march against the war in Iraq. She said the march lasted four hours and people walked 15 abreast. She then watched the news on television. It showed a group of 15 anti-protesters. There is nothing new here. During the McCarthy era there was a huge leftist march. It ran for hours and I counted the people in a row - 18 across. It was reported as a small march of no importance.
Isn't freedom of the press wonderful! And we are prepared to share it with the world.
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#16. colonelartist: "One day, in 5 yrs, you should go to south wazirstan and ask those people the price they paid to secure you while you were talking about pressing matters like marijuana."
You should address your concern to the editors of both The Los Angeles and New York Times. It is those major news organs which made it the most important subject of the day - and which would be more appropriate for a blog which purports to be concerned with life in America. I don't believe that the people of South Wazirstan have done anything to make us more secure; it was that kind of thinking that gave rise to the Iraq adventure, because according to "intelligence" it was a threat to American national security. I feel sad that anyone should suffer in the manner you mention, but then I feel sorry for those who are derelict, without home, hearth or healthcare. Those and many others don't give a fig for what is happening in Asia Minor, they're too busy trying to drum up a few pennies to buy something to eat or a place to sleep. Ignore them at your peril.
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Will Karzai play the ball?
To answer this question one needs to define what characteristics define "credible partner" in the American Afghanistan policy makers lingo.
Highly questionable is vote gathering in this whole Afghan affair. When NATO admits having problem controlling the countryside, the voting there as well as at open locations in more populous centers (due to the threats from Taleban)is dubious. The whole fraudulence issue relating to voting improprieties may thus be fraudulent itself.
It is probable that credible partner would be a person who can provide the most gun meat, Afghans, to fight a proxy war against Taleban
for the international force residing now in Afghanistan. There maybe be indications that Karzai exhausted his "willing to fight" Taleban sources and Abdullah has more Afghans behind to continue that fight.
It should not surprise anyone in the Western hemisphere that we prefer
to see Afghans dying fighting Taleban enemy then see Americans and other NATO soldiers returning wrapped in flags.
Indeed, finding the credible partner may be essential to keep Afghanistan engagement going without arousing public discontent at home.
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15 David Cunard
A bit harsh, but on target, I think. I love Mr. Mardell's writing, but I've rarely posted in the last few weeks because the focus seems so much on "high politics" that it got rather repetitive.
There's a lot going on outside of DC... what about influenza and the illogical resistance to the H1N1 vaccination? Foreign Policy online has a horrifying look at a theoretical mutation that could rival the Black Death in scope...
Or, stay in Washington- what about undoing damage from Bush era environmental policies?
Heck, even something on the Balloon Boy would be a change of pace.
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Mr. Karzai attended university in India. Given their British background, I suspect Mr. Karzai learned the same bit of history about General Gordon and Khartoum known to most 11th year UK students.
General Gordon defied the demands of the empire to abandon Sudan when he was under attack by the Islamists of that era. Perhaps before choosing to be equally obstinate, Mr. Karzai will recall what became of General Gordon's head.
Mr. Karzai, a clever political operator, has probably also pondered the likelihood of US and UK citizens clamoring for a force to rescue him should he take every choice you described.
Jumper
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President Karzai is the only person who can take Afghanistan out of the crisis it is facing now. It is very sad that all the blames for the ills of Afghanistan are falling on President Karzai whereas the international community is equally to be blamed for what Afghanistan is currently going through. If we say Afghan government is corrupt, we shall also admit that international community had a big hand in its corruption from the first day they stepped in Afghanistan. If we say there is no security, it should be admitted that this problem was created by US and its allies due to their harsh behaviour with Afghans.
If President Karzai is removed and replaced by anyone else of US and UK’s choice, I think it will be a very bad day in the history of Afghanistan in particular and in the world in general. In fact, the world should know it may not be very easy for them to remove President Karzai in the first place, as he is very popular in the country and the public will stand with him against any foreign aggression.
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10. GL - This seems fairly put, to me.
It seems really unlikely (to me, at least) that this war can be brought to anything like a positive conclusion if Karzai stays, for two reasons
(1) if Karzai doesn't have the support of the people of Afghanistan, ready to put their lives on the line to fight off the Taliban, his government can only be sustained by the kind of unsavory characters that rob the government of legitimacy in the eyes of its own people, inevitably swelling the ranks of the Taliban and of those who choose to look the other way;
(2) the war cannot be continued without western military support, and the cost of that support in blood and treasure is too much for western voters to swallow unless they see something a lot more worthwhile than Karzai has shown so far.
Neither the Afghans themselves, nor western voters should be expected to risk their lives or the lives of their soldiers for a government that is, apparently, corrupt beyond redemption, and, in addition, apparently cheats at the ballot box. Who can blame them?
What is appalling is that Karzai himself lacks whatever it takes to step aside. It doesn't matter whether he actually led the first round of voting or not. The commission has determined that he is a cheat. He has to go.
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#21. Via-Media: "There's a lot going on outside of DC... what about influenza and the illogical resistance to the H1N1 vaccination? Foreign Policy online has a horrifying look at a theoretical mutation that could rival the Black Death in scope... Heck, even something on the Balloon Boy would be a change of pace."
I can only conclude that Mark does not watch television nor does he read the national newspapers; the lead story of tomorrow's Los Angeles Times is "Maine's gay marriage battle has echoes of Prop. 8." Of the most read articles, the top ten are
1. Angels get a life, thanks to Jeff Mathis
2. Phillies come back to beat Dodgers in the 9th, 5-4
3. Bill would halt reductions of Medicare payments to doctors
4. Psychiatrist testifies that Anna Nicole Smith walked away from drug treatment
5. Airport panel approves $1.13-billion upgrade at LAX
6. Congressman disputes being investigated by FBI
7. In City of Industry, business and governance converge
8. Doctor who treated octuplets mom ejected from Society of Reproductive Medicine
9. Maine's gay marriage battle has echoes of Prop. 8
10. Pranksters stage fake press conference
So much for Southern California's interest in Afghanistan! Northern California emulates its warmer cousin: The San Francisco Chronicle demonstrates no interest in Mr Karzai. Considering that the Golden State is electorally the most important prize, surely some lesson could be drawn from this. But from three thousand miles away, perhaps Mark views the most populous state in the Union as lacking in importance, not to mention those from sea-to-shining-sea. He should board a Greyhound bus and report along the way, in which case this blog would have a far different and wider perspective.
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#13 Colonel
Are you being ironic? Faux News a serious programme?! You denounce the Daily Show as mere comedy. The Daily Show is satire - one of the things satire does is that it makes serious political comments through comedy about serious political events. American satire is rare these days - tragic considering it is the birthplace of Mark Twain. Why do I get the feeling that satire is something that goes over your head!
#18 Ms Marbles
Oh yes, the marvels of a free press. In countries where freedom is in short supply the press and media always seem to have the same headlines. Yet here in the west the press and media follow each other like chickens from one balloon headline to the next. The former are repressed, what's the west's excuse I wonder! Self-censorship is the worst of all media repressions IMO.
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To David Cunard, post 25:
This blog is entitled "Political analysis and a British perspective on life in the US"
This means it covers events occurring in the US, with a political angle, which are of interest to the international community, notably the British. I honestly couldn't care less if "Phillies come back to beat Dodgers in the 9th, 5-4"
As a representative of the BBC, Mark is defining the news; he doesn't just read the US papers and regurgitate it here.
If that's what you want, this might not be the right blog for you.
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27 Flyingchumpino
David Cunard's point still stands, though- neither "political analysis" nor "life in the U.S." need focus on the several hundred square KM inside the DC Beltway.
Even my facetious example of the Balloon Boy has relevance- are there any lessons to be learned from it? Is it a moral tale of the decline of familial responsibility? Press sensationalism? Indicative of tawdry American taste?
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While I agree that this focus on US foreign policy, especially in relation to Afghanistan is getting a bit repetitive (there are only so many ways the respondents can voice their opinions), Mark is there to report to the British what is happening in the US. That does mean he will have a tendency to stick to the Capital and the wheels of power. While there maybe stories in the US that Americans feel are as important, they will lack the same resonance with non-Americans. The same would be the case if there was a US blog about what was happening in the UK. There would be a tendency to become embroiled in the workings of the City of Westminster ignoring what happened elsewhere in the Capital or even else where in the country.
Would anyone in the US really care that the fattest man in the world lives in Ipswich and is going to cost the taxpayers of the UK tens of thousands of Pounds to have a life saving operation? Would they care that the BNP is using WWII photos of (Polish) Spitfires to promote its political agenda and party? Or possibly vastly more important to large sections of the British population, would they care that Anton Du Beck (shocking revealed not to be his real name) made his dance partner cry twice, just weeks after courting controversy by using a racist word to describe her?
Having said all that personally I would like a snap shot of American life outside of the corridors of the White House, as I am interested in why people think the things they do.
ColonelA – I would have more sympathy with your stance, if your prejudices and bias weren’t so strident. The opinion that everything the West, especially the US, does is wrong and somehow sinister is just as flawed as claiming that the West, especially the US, is wonderful and the guiding light all other nations and societies should be measured against. Your poor oppressed Afghan freedom fighters, do quite regularly kill other Afghans and have been for a long time without any help from outsiders. Sorry, they lack any moral superiority when it comes to violence and mayhem.
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ref #26
dceilar wrote:
#13 Colonel
Are you being ironic? Faux News a serious programme?! You denounce the Daily Show as mere comedy. The Daily Show is satire - one of the things satire does is that it makes serious political comments through comedy about serious political events. American satire is rare these days - tragic considering it is the birthplace of Mark Twain. Why do I get the feeling that satire is something that goes over your head!
#18 Ms Marbles
Oh yes, the marvels of a free press. In countries where freedom is in short supply the press and media always seem to have the same headlines. Yet here in the west the press and media follow each other like chickens from one balloon headline to the next. The former are repressed, what's the west's excuse I wonder! Self-censorship is the worst of all media repressions IMO.
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Who are you kidding, fox News is the most honest of the tv media. They are not in the tank for Obama. Don't listen to the talking points of Axelrod, Emmanuel and Dunn who are trying to con people that Hannity and Beck are news reporters.
Is Anita Dunn's next job communications director for Chavez who wants to censor opposition press? She would fit right in.
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Magic – Oh do come on, Fox honest? Really!?! Everything touched by that Australian Oligarch is tainted with his own bias and views. In the UK we have had to watch the Times go from being a truly world class paper to Murdoch’s slightly more upper class mouth piece, upper class that is to the Sun and News of the World!
A slight show of Murdoch’s British media honesty, the News of the World was accused of illegally phone tapping people, every single British paper ran the story, except the Sun. The biggest news story of the day missed by Murdoch’s British flagship newspaper, for some reason.
While abroad I have watched Fox news, its quite amusing in a scary kind of way but I wouldn’t trust it for actually getting any real news.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
At the risk of repeating what other posters have already pointed out I will say that the intent of Mark Mardell's America blog is, in my opinion, not to provide topics of interest to Americans, but to provide its international audience with American news of interest to them.
Understandably, the focus is more often than not American foreign policy, which because of its direct impact on the lives of people worldwide is of great interest to the international community.
If my fellow Americans prefer to debate domestic issues of greater interest to us, we have the option of joining any of the many blogs that serve that purpose where in addition to being able to discuss the evils of Republican and Democratic policies we can also engage in the traditional insults and lack of decorum that prevails in many of them.
Otherwise, we should be grateful for the privilege of being able to participate in this forum, and be allowed to voice our opinion in ways that are often offensive to our hosts.
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ref #31
DavidRMurrell wrote:
Magic – Oh do come on, Fox honest? Really!?! Everything touched by that Australian Oligarch is tainted with his own bias and views. In the UK we have had to watch the Times go from being a truly world class paper to Murdoch’s slightly more upper class mouth piece, upper class that is to the Sun and News of the World!
A slight show of Murdoch’s British media honesty, the News of the World was accused of illegally phone tapping people, every single British paper ran the story, except the Sun. The biggest news story of the day missed by Murdoch’s British flagship newspaper, for some reason.
While abroad I have watched Fox news, its quite amusing in a scary kind of way but I wouldn’t trust it for actually getting any real news.
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WSJ is one of the few U.S papers in good shape. Lets compare the NYT who published an article claiming McCain had a mistress with no verfible sources or CNN taking supposed quotes about Limbaugh from Wikipedia. Or that most news orginizations were late on the ACORN scandal as not to embarassed Obama.
I will take FNC over CNN or MSNBC or CBC any time
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All I see what WEST wants, why don't we ask Afghan what they want? Can't they make their own decision? They have existed for a long time and history shows us the occupation Afghan people never worked and will never work.
Why do we have to fight to resolve an issue? Lets get every one in one room and find out the problem and let see how we can compromise or that is not part our world in WEST.
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And what exactly is Washington's message to Karzai, revote the election honestly or we'll pull American troops out and leave you to your fate? C'mon, even the most inexperienced novice who only sat down to a poker table once in his life would see right through such a transparent bluff. Get on with the job of wiping out the Taleban and al Qaeda Mr. President and leave the local politics to the locals. Nation building is not America's strength and we can't afford to wait in our mission any longer. So get the troops over there, get the job done, get out, and let them have their loya jurgas or whatever they do to settle things among themselves. Stop trying to bring the 21st century to people who live in the 11th century.
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@33(StD): Right on target. Thanks for saying that.
Regards,
Arclight
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Via-Media wrote:
27 Flyingchumpino
David Cunard's point still stands, though- neither "political analysis" nor "life in the U.S." need focus on the several hundred square KM inside the DC Beltway.
Even my facetious example of the Balloon Boy has relevance- are there any lessons to be learned from it? Is it a moral tale of the decline of familial responsibility? Press sensationalism? Indicative of tawdry American taste?
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The lesson to be learned is that by exploiting your family you can get a reality show gig. The lowest form of TV outside of infomercials.
If there is Karma the parents will have to repay all search costs by various agencies.
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saintDominick (#33) " ... I will say that the intent of Mark Mardell's America blog is, in my opinion, not to provide topics of interest to Americans, but to provide its international audience with American news of interest to them."
Precisely.
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#27. Flyingchumpino: "David Cunard, post 25: This blog is entitled "Political analysis and a British perspective on life in the US"
Perhaps you do not realise that there are fifty states in where there are politics to be be analysed - and Washington DC is not one of them.
"I honestly couldn't care less if "Phillies come back to beat Dodgers in the 9th, 5-4"
But that (and the other nine listed) are what readers of The Los Angeles Times were looking at, not Mr Karzai. Since Los Angeles is the greatest metropolitan area outside New York, it is indicative of what interest Americans have in Afghanistan. Is the potential for legalising marijuana of no interest to an international readership or the fight in Maine with regard to same gender marriage?
"As a representative of the BBC, Mark is defining the news"
There's far more to news than observations about Afghanistan or other DC-centric matters.
"If that's what you want, this might not be the right blog for you."
Since I have been contributing to this space since its inception under Justin Webb, I know which blog is right for me. Mark has fallen into the same trap as Justin, reporting from the narrow confines of a Federal area which is not even one of the fifty states. There must surely be a topic, even political, which could be found far from the Potomac.
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Will this mean that Peter Galbraith gets his job back ??
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2009/10/an_important_story.html
Answers on a postcard, but don't hold your breath...
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Mr. Mardell is a political writer, and he's off to a good start reporting on US politics, in my view, compared the superficial musings of Mr. Webb.
If the BBC wants a blog feature on life in the United States generally, they should bring back Jon Kelly.
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26. At 07:41am on 20 Oct 2009, dceilar wrote:
Oh yes, the marvels of a free press. In countries where freedom is in short supply the press and media always seem to have the same headlines. Yet here in the west the press and media follow each other like chickens from one balloon headline to the next. The former are repressed, what's the west's excuse I wonder! Self-censorship is the worst of all media repressions IMO.
Actually, media consolidation is the problem. All the major papers and most of the smaller regional and local news outlets (including television and radio) are now owned by a few large corporations. In order to cut costs they centralized their news gathering services and now feed the news to their various subsidiaries. This accounts for the identical headlines and a serious lack of investigative journalism, especially on the local level. Watergate, for example, was originally a city desk story in DC before it went national.
Why did this happen? Blame Rupert Murdoch. He successfully fought to change the rules that disallowed the overlapping ownership of newspapers, television news programs and radio. It snowballed from there into a corporate owned nightmare, where the owners dictate what we hear, read and see.
If you want serious news reporting that isn't owned by the media conglomerates turn on the MacNeil-Lehrer News Hour on your local PBS station.
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36. At 2:51pm on 20 Oct 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
And what exactly is Washington's message to Karzai, revote the election honestly or we'll pull American troops out and leave you to your fate? C'mon, even the most inexperienced novice who only sat down to a poker table once in his life would see right through such a transparent bluff. Get on with the job of wiping out the Taleban and al Qaeda Mr. President and leave the local politics to the locals. Nation building is not America's strength and we can't afford to wait in our mission any longer. So get the troops over there, get the job done, get out, and let them have their loya jurgas or whatever they do to settle things among themselves. Stop trying to bring the 21st century to people who live in the 11th century."
And you can do this without cooperation of the locals?
How exactly?
The world waits with baited breath
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34. At 12:35pm on 20 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
WSJ is one of the few U.S papers in good shape.
So what? The People's Daily is in good shape too. Doesn't mean it is any good.
Its political analysis is primitively right wing and elitist.
" Lets compare the NYT who published an article claiming McCain had a mistress with no verfible sources or CNN taking supposed quotes about Limbaugh from Wikipedia. Or that most news orginizations were late on the ACORN scandal as not to embarassed Obama."
Or let us remember the article on how leveling Palestinian villages was permitted, or ought to be. Or the articles by the discredited Sharon and other extremists.
"I will take FNC over CNN or MSNBC or CBC any time"
That is because you do not want news but ideology. And explains you lack of knowledge regarding Colombian death squads etc.
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30. At 10:48am on 20 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
Who are you kidding, fox News is the most honest of the tv media. They are not in the tank for Obama. Don't listen to the talking points of Axelrod, Emmanuel and Dunn who are trying to con people that Hannity and Beck are news reporters.
Is Anita Dunn's next job communications director for Chavez who wants to censor opposition press? She would fit right in."
And who should act as the spokesperson/apologists for the Colombian death squads, a kind of Colombian Goebbels?
I can think of a few names.
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30. At 10:48am on 20 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
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"Who are you kidding, fox News is the most honest of the tv media. They are not in the tank for Obama. "
Is that the only way you judge a news source, how much they hate a black president? Presumably you think the Taliban spokesperson is honest then, he's not a fan either.
More "Nelson Mandela is a terrrorist for fighting white supremacists" type comment.
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24. At 06:21am on 20 Oct 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:
10. GL - This seems fairly put, to me.
Agreed. This has become farcial worse then handing Iraq over to Iran and then claiming victory.
Here we have a man who tried to steal the last election being permitted to run another one with no penalty.
This new election being held in the dead of winter by the same people who conducted the first ghastly mess.
And the Afghans are supposed to take this seriously.
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"The world waits with baited [sic] breath."
The fish, anyway.
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President Karzai is the only person who can take Afghanistan out of the crisis it is facing now.
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No one will miss karzai if he is removed tomorrow..the only reason he was selected by the invaded forces was that he is a Durrani pathan..to counter all those durranis who are with taliban. He is corrupt, he is a fraud and he is a traitor..He was in a government northern alliance government before taliban, and all his government did was to fight each other inside kabul..He has nothing to his credit.
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ref #45
Simon can you ever respond without going an anti Israeli pro terrorist rant?
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#42. GH1618: "Mr. Mardell is a political writer, and he's off to a good start reporting on US politics, in my view, compared the superficial musings of Mr. Webb."
But he's not reporting on "US politics", just those emanating from Washington DC. Even then, the subject matter is foreign affairs rather than domestic. There are fifty legislatures but only forty-eight in the contiguous United States, not to mention the neighbours north of the 49th Parallel. Such a myopic view of American political life is not representative of either how (US) Americans live or their own political views. In any case, where are the "thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else?"
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49. At 5:26pm on 20 Oct 2009, GH1618 wrote:
"The world waits with baited [sic] breath."
The fish, anyway."
Quite, if only he always confined his weird views to this audience.
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ColonelA – I would have more sympathy with your stance, if your prejudices and bias weren’t so strident. The opinion that everything the West, especially the US, does is wrong and somehow sinister is just as flawed as claiming that the West, especially the US, is wonderful and the guiding light all other nations and societies should be measured against. Your poor oppressed Afghan freedom fighters, do quite regularly kill other Afghans and have been for a long time without any help from outsiders. Sorry, they lack any moral superiority when it comes to violence and mayhem.
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Atleast and for which i am proud of, that they dont venture out of their country to ruin them. My poor afghan oppressed afghan freedom fighters werent killing other afghans until sinister americans came into their picture.
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51. At 5:50pm on 20 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #45
Simon can you ever respond without going an anti Israeli pro terrorist rant?"
Can you ever, I mean ever, answer a question|?
And I wouldn'ty go on about Terrorism if I were you with your views on Colombia's death squads, torture and Israeli war crimes.
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ref #47
Is that the only way you judge a news source, how much they hate a black president? Presumably you think the Taliban spokesperson is honest then, he's not a fan either.
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So questioning and dissent are hate. You make this claim about fox. The last racist thing I heard on Fox was a left wing black radio host address NPR's Juan Williams with a racial slur.
But Simon will you ever consider criticsm of a minority iberal acceptible?
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52. At 5:55pm on 20 Oct 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#42. GH1618: "Mr. Mardell is a political writer, and he's off to a good start reporting on US politics, in my view, compared the superficial musings of Mr. Webb."
But he's not reporting on "US politics", just those emanating from Washington DC. Even then, the subject matter is foreign affairs rather than domestic. There are fifty legislatures but only forty-eight in the contiguous United States, not to mention the neighbours north of the 49th Parallel. Such a myopic view of American political life is not representative of either how (US) Americans live or their own political views. In any case, where are the "thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else
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While it is true that mardell could get out more the idea he should report on fifty states is foolish.
No US report bothers mentioning ecvents in Scotalnd or Wales and no one reporting on Australia ever mentions state politics, and there are only 6 of them.
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56. At 6:00pm on 20 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #47
Is that the only way you judge a news source, how much they hate a black president? Presumably you think the Taliban spokesperson is honest then, he's not a fan either.
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So questioning and dissent are hate. You make this claim about fox. The last racist thing I heard on Fox was a left wing black radio host address NPR's Juan Williams with a racial slur.
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So you actually prove my point, sorry that's weird.
Fox broadcasts rascist comments according to you, and that's honest as far as you are concerned?
Could you explain this, because I beleive fox does have form on this - did it not have to sack someone for racially insulting Michele Obama?
Who was not actually running for office of course.
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But Simon will you ever consider criticsm of a minority iberal acceptible?
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What is that when it is at home. Can you tell me any minority that take the same view?
It is not only the jewish minority which is capable of independent thought, black people do it too, so do Palestinians and asians, moslems, gay people.
It is profoundly rascist to think otherwise.
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#57. Simon21: "While it is true that mardell could get out more the idea he should report on fifty states is foolish."
No wonder another poster nicknamed you Simple Simon: reporting the political life of even one of the forty-eight contiguous states (there are not fifty) would be of interest. If Alaska were to be included, what's happened there since Mrs Palin resigned? Her state was featured greatly during the General (Presidential) Election but now is consigned to oblivion. If this blog is to be about American politics, then it should explore more than DC. If it weren't for the thirteen original states, there would be no Washington!
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David_Cunard (#52) "But he's not reporting on "US politics", just those emanating from Washington DC. Even then, the subject matter is foreign affairs rather than domestic."
By "US politics" I meant federal politics, not state politics. Obviously, it is not practical for Mr. Mardell to follow state politics around the US generally, although sometimes a state issue might be of national interest.
He has reported on the health reform issue, which is domestic.
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59. At 6:26pm on 20 Oct 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#57. Simon21: "While it is true that mardell could get out more the idea he should report on fifty states is foolish."
No wonder another poster nicknamed you Simple Simon: reporting the political life of even one of the forty-eight contiguous states (there are not fifty) would be of interest."
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Sorry to see childish abuse amuses you David. It is the sign a of a puerile mind.
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If Alaska were to be included, what's happened there since Mrs Palin resigned? Her state was featured greatly during the General (Presidential) Election but now is consigned to oblivion.
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Ignorance is also a sign of course.
Apart from the fact that Alaskan politics are probably deeply uninteresting there is also the ever so slight point that he would have to cover all states or stand accused of political preference.
US politics are hoplessly polarised. If the first few states he chose were Republican the Democrats would howl and vice versa and if he left before balancing the score the same would apply.
And that is before the Canadians, Australians etc also started complaining.
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If this blog is to be about American politics, then it should explore more than DC. If it weren't for the thirteen original states, there would be no Washington!
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He may need to cover different regions, but the idea that the desperate political struggle for control of the Idaho potato board would interest anyone outside of that state is ridiculous.
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No wonder another poster nicknamed you Simple Simon: reporting the political life of even one of the forty-eight contiguous states (there are not fifty) would be of interest. If Alaska were to be included, what's happened there since Mrs Palin resigned? Her state was featured greatly during the General (Presidential) Election but now is consigned to oblivion. If this blog is to be about American politics, then it should explore more than DC. If it weren't for the thirteen original states, there would be no Washington!
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I am not a citizen of usa, and I am not interested in internal politics of that country..All I know is that there are two parties, Both of them, oppose each other. If one issue is supported by one party the other opposes it..not for the sake of issue but due to the fact that it is supported by the other party. If mccain had been elected, and had done and said what obama is saying, the republicans would be supporting him and the other ones against it..the difference between the two after 9/11 is that republican leaders are more staright forward when it comes to lying, while democrats dance around lie..and the general public in usa embrace lies with open arms.
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4. At 7:17pm on 19 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
there is a bit of a double standard here in the international community.
Iran's Zimbabwe's and Venezuela's were far more corrupt yet they are not recieving the pressure Karzi is."
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Not to mention Israel and Colombia. Karzai isn't trying to kill or occupy Afghanistan's native people as a matter of policy as these two states are.
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ref #55 and 58
As usual you twist the meanings.
Any time I criticize the Obama, Mandela or any african american, or latin american dictator like Chavez or Morales you throw out the race card.
That was the question:
Can someone help Simon Simon? Are we allowed to criticize Obama and not be called racist?
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Are we allowed to criticize Obama and not be called racist?
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it depends, do you allow others to critisize israel without calling them anti-semites and racists?
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64. At 7:15pm on 20 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #55 and 58
As usual you twist the meanings.
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You garble your own posts don't blame me. That's what hatred does for you.
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Any time I criticize the Obama, Mandela or any african american, or latin american dictator like Chavez or Morales you throw out the race card.
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You confuse criticism with abuse. One is name calling the other is an intellectual process.
You accuse Mandela of being a terrorist a disgusting accusation for one who spent his whole life fighting for freedom against a terrorist regime.
No proof is offered.
Tutu a man of peace if ever there was one, is also abused and called a terrorist.
You are not fit to discuss the life of either man with views like these.
As for Morales and Chavez, both native Americans, more abuse.
But the nice white president of Colombia who has taken an equivocal attitude to psychopathic death squads is apparently, according to you, to be "celebrated".
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Can someone help Simon Simon? Are we allowed to criticize Obama and not be called racist?
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Can someone help Mad magic with his English, oh and basic humanity.
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65. At 7:24pm on 20 Oct 2009, colonelartist wrote:
Are we allowed to criticize Obama and not be called racist?
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it depends, do you allow others to critisize israel without calling them anti-semites and racists?
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You do Mad Magic an injustice. He believes you can certainly criticise Israelies, certain Israelies, the same ones the excellent Mr Lieberman has a problem with.
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ref #65
If anyone can tell me why a different standard should apply to Israel than any other country yes. But Simon seems to think that terrorist attacks are justified and defending one's self agianst terrorist attacks is not.
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#60. GH1618: "David_Cunard . . . By "US politics" I meant federal politics, not state politics. Obviously, it is not practical for Mr. Mardell to follow state politics around the US generally, although sometimes a state issue might be of national interest."
I would have thought the issues of marijuana legalisation, gay marriage and assisted suicide would be of international interest, not merely national. Those who live beyond America's shores forget that individual State matters can affect the entire country, if not the world. Had California not mandated strict vehicular emissions standards, the British motor industry (such as it is) and that of the rest of Europe could not have sold its product in the most populous state and thence elsewhere. The Oregonian passage of assisted suicide is oft mentioned by others when the subject of euthanasia is discussed and the continuing debate over gay marriage has nationwide potential. The latter is not a matter of domestic or civil partnership (as in the UK) but fully-fledged matrimony. There is far more to American politics than what happens in Washington. Unlike Parliament, the Congress has only very limited powers, all others being delegated to the States.
#61. Simon21: "Sorry to see childish abuse amuses you David. It is the sign a of a puerile mind."
I'm not amused in the least, but it does seem to fit you.
"Apart from the fact that Alaskan politics are probably deeply uninteresting . . ."
probably deeply uninteresting? How would anyone know if it's not reported? The matter of oil drilling would be of international concern.
"there is also the ever so slight point that he would have to cover all states or stand accused of political preference."
Rubbish! If that were the case it is just as well Mark was not here during the primaries and ensuing election - and I suppose by the same logic there will be no local reporting of the mid-term elections. He doesn't need to demonstrate his partisan preference, just to report on the issues which form American life.
"the idea that the desperate political struggle for control of the Idaho potato board would interest anyone outside of that state is ridiculous."
Now who's being puerile?
#62. colonelartist: "I am not a citizen of usa, and I am not interested in internal politics of that country..All I know is that there are two parties, Both of them, oppose each other."
If it were not for the internal politics of the United States, Federal politics would have an entirely different complexion; states' voters determine who makes Federal law, and it is local issues which determine who gets elected. If you have such a lack of interest in anything beyond the District of Columbia I cannot see why you even bother to read, let alone contribute to this blog.
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"Apart from the fact that Alaskan politics are probably deeply uninteresting ..." (#61)
Alaska politics (and news) can be interesting, but the place to read about it is adn.com.
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If you have such a lack of interest in anything beyond the District of Columbia I cannot see why you even bother to read, let alone contribute to this blog.
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i have no interest in the district of columbia. just what comes out of that district all the way to the other side, my side, and thats where my interest starts and ends. and thats why I write. Unlike you, I dont contribute, I write.
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If anyone can tell me why a different standard should apply to Israel than any other country yes. But Simon seems to think that terrorist attacks are justified and defending one's self agianst terrorist attacks is not.
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And how many times have you or your country has been attacked by the terrorist attack in the past two or three days that you have a need to defend yourself against those attacks?
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#69 David
. . .states' voters determine who makes Federal law, and it is local issues which determine who gets elected.
Point taken David. But aren't UK Members of Parliament also supposed to represent and reflect the interests of those who voted for them? MPs from all round the UK have to live in London to be in proximity of Westminster; isn't it the same for members of Congress? Also, we keep reading about the influence of lobbyists in Washington on members of Congress (and the same can be said of Westminster) so what happens in the nation's capitals is of more importance.
To reiterate David, your argument about US local issues is important, but not as important as the goings on in DC. I don't think we should expect Mark to spend too much time 'out in the sticks' as it were.
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62. At 6:43pm on 20 Oct 2009, colonelartist wrote:
I am not a citizen of usa, and I am not interested in internal politics of that country..All I know is that there are two parties, Both of them, oppose each other. If one issue is supported by one party the other opposes it..not for the sake of issue but due to the fact that it is supported by the other party. If mccain had been elected, and had done and said what obama is saying, the republicans would be supporting him and the other ones against it..the difference between the two after 9/11 is that republican leaders are more staright forward when it comes to lying, while democrats dance around lie..and the general public in usa embrace lies with open arms.
You're right, you know absolutely nothing about the US and have a very simplistic view of America and Americans. Therefore, given your ignorance, you should refrain from commenting on subjects you know nothing about.
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I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics,
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This is how Mark Mardell introduces himself..BBC's North America editor. Now, to a simple person like me, it means, North America as in the whole continent.Not USA just one country of that continent..but i can live with just usa and its politics, but this is where my tolarance ends. I am not at all interested in internal politics of usa.
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You're right, you know absolutely nothing about the US and have a very simplistic view of America and Americans. Therefore, given your ignorance, you should refrain from commenting on subjects you know nothing about.
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Iraq liberation act, and made it into an american law. passed by clinton in 98. A law in usa to change regime in iraq..Bush used this law to wage war, and thats why the democrats, including the wife of clinton voted for the war..
The anti terrorism act of 96 passed by clinton, among other things, alliens presumed guilty will have to prove why they should not be held in prison and secret evidence can be used against such people in detention hearing and trial and only the judge could see it, not the defendent.. Forgeingers can be barred from speaking in usa. this act allowed justice department to procecute based on invidual's political beliefs and associations..etc etc etc.. and thus the profiling of arabs and muslims started..Read the rest of that act if you want to, and dont read if you dont want to..It doesnt concern me at all.Bush just polished those laws and called them patriotic law..
I know the important things of past and present..other matters, I dont care about..never have and never will..
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. At 8:45pm on 20 Oct 2009, GH1618 wrote:
"Apart from the fact that Alaskan politics are probably deeply uninteresting ..." (#61)
Alaska politics (and news) can be interesting, but the place to read about it is adn.com."
yes quite. Tasmanian politics can be very interesting, and rather cute, but the place to read about them is on the state sites and newspapers
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76. At 10:15pm on 20 Oct 2009, colonelartist wrote:
I know the important things of past and present..other matters, I dont care about..never have and never will..
Do you know why these policies came into existence? No. Do you want to know why they came into existence? No.
Everyone is ignorant of something, but only the truly ignorant choose to remain that way when they have the opportunity to educate themselves. You aren't merely happy in your ignorance, you celebrate it publicly. And that's just sad.
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69. At 8:16pm on 20 Oct 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#60. GH1618: "David_Cunard . . . By "US politics" I meant federal politics, not state politics. Obviously, it is not practical for Mr. Mardell to follow state politics around the US generally, although sometimes a state issue might be of national interest."
I would have thought the issues of marijuana legalisation, gay marriage and assisted suicide would be of international interest, not merely national."
Yes bit of a shock to you David but the Northern Territory had assisted suicide - one of the first western polities to do so. Why should US local politics be more important than other countries?
"Those who live beyond America's shores forget that individual State matters can affect the entire country, if not the world. Had California not mandated strict vehicular emissions standards, the British motor industry (such as it is) and that of the rest of Europe could not have sold its product in the most populous state and thence elsewhere."
Yes how many people in the US know the difference in Koori rights between the various Australian states? How many know the political differences between the SA provinces?
"The Oregonian passage of assisted suicide is oft mentioned by others when the subject of euthanasia is discussed and the continuing debate over gay marriage has nationwide potential. The latter is not a matter of domestic or civil partnership (as in the UK) but fully-fledged matrimony. There is far more to American politics than what happens in Washington. Unlike Parliament, the Congress has only very limited powers, all others being delegated to the States."
Ditto Australia, SA, Canada etc. You seem to think local rights are a US phenomenon. Do you know what rights the Swiss Cantons have?
#61. Simon21: "Sorry to see childish abuse amuses you David. It is the sign a of a puerile mind."
I'm not amused in the least, but it does seem to fit you."
You won't mind if I call you Drippy David then?
"Apart from the fact that Alaskan politics are probably deeply uninteresting . . ."
probably deeply uninteresting? How would anyone know if it's not reported? The matter of oil drilling would be of international concern."
Well gee David, Moldavian provincial politics are not reported either, maybe they are intriguing eh?
And Alaskan oil dirlling is occasionally reported, but not much.
"there is also the ever so slight point that he would have to cover all states or stand accused of political preference."
Rubbish! If that were the case it is just as well Mark was not here during the primaries and ensuing election - and I suppose by the same logic there will be no local reporting of the mid-term elections. He doesn't need to demonstrate his partisan preference, just to report on the issues which form American life."
Yes Rubbish isn't an argument Davey my lad. My point stands. If Mark was to cover the vigorous visceral debate on rubbish collection in Lincoln Nebraska, the good folk of Wyoming might wonder why their fascinating political struggles were ignored.
"the idea that the desperate political struggle for control of the Idaho potato board would interest anyone outside of that state is ridiculous."
Now who's being puerile?"
Good idea when not wanting to seem idiotic is to answer the points Davey. You have not answered one.
In general there is no interest or reason for mark to cover American State politics, which, compared to those of India (say) do not warrant much of a mention.
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68. At 7:38pm on 20 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #65
If anyone can tell me why a different standard should apply to Israel than any other country yes. But Simon seems to think that terrorist attacks are justified and defending one's self agianst terrorist attacks is not."
Occupying a whole people is terrorism end of story.
Can you name another country whihc is allowed to steal land and occupy a whole people without criticism - including the PRC?
Just one please.
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Do you know why these policies came into existence? No. Do you want to know why they came into existence? No.
Everyone is ignorant of something, but only the truly ignorant choose to remain that way when they have the opportunity to educate themselves. You aren't merely happy in your ignorance, you celebrate it publicly. And that's just sad.
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Its not my job to know all this, my luxury is to point out to such policies after their existence..and quoting wherever I want to, " you cannot protect americans by hypothetical forgein terrorists by giving more power to the agencies" until someone corrected me by telling me that americans dont mind handing over their liberties to agencies because of some hypothetical terrorists.and from that day onwards I use this quote for occassions like this..Education doesnt revolve around what goes inside usa, or how the people live inside it..But I know that native indians were called red indians,their land stolen, after yrs of being treated as uncivilized etc etc, one fine morning, they woke up to find that they were given a new name, native americans, some areas called reservations..and in return the native americans were expected to be grateful .
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Can you name another country whihc is allowed to steal land and occupy a whole people without criticism - including the PRC?
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usa.australia? One of these two.
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82. At 11:07pm on 20 Oct 2009, colonelartist wrote:
Can you name another country whihc is allowed to steal land and occupy a whole people without criticism - including the PRC?
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usa.australia? One of these two. And Canada etc
In Modern times of course, when we are supposed to be against this sort of thing
Except if the culprits are nice white israelies
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81. At 11:04pm on 20 Oct 2009, colonelartist wrote:
" you cannot protect americans by hypothetical forgein terrorists by giving more power to the agencies" until someone corrected me by telling me that americans dont mind handing over their liberties to agencies because of some hypothetical terrorists.and from that day onwards I use this quote for occassions like this..
So because someone told you this you believe it to be true? Without checking the facts? Without understanding that most Americans were incensed by the Bush administrations heavy handed tactics and he's the most hated President in American history? If I tell you now that it isn't true, that the government undermined these liberties and we've been fighting our own government ever since, would you then change your mind? Would you be shocked to learn that there is evidence that Bush stole both presidential elections? Would you even care that Americans had been living under a fascist government for the last 8 years? Would it even interest you to know that millions of Americans had marched in the streets against the Bush policies from the very start? I doubt it.
Education doesnt revolve around what goes inside usa, or how the people live inside it..
I never said it did. But if you want to change a country's policies, you need to understand why the policies exist in the first place in order to debate them. Just shouting that they are wrong will change nothing.
But I know that native indians were called red indians,their land stolen, after yrs of being treated as uncivilized etc etc, one fine morning, they woke up to find that they were given a new name, native americans, some areas called reservations..and in return the native americans were expected to be grateful .
And where do your ancestors come from? Tell me, so we can dig up all sorts of horrors perpetrated throughout the history of your homeland. No, America doesn't have a happy, pretty history. Neither does your ancestral home, I'll wager. Neither does anyone else's. America's history is only a few hundred years old, but I'll bet you have one that's thousands. Thousands of years full of slavery, because it's existed since before written history began and still continues in parts of Africa today. Thousands of years of war and violence of which your ancestors are also guilty. Come on, tell us where your ancestors come from, so we can all indulge ourselves in throwing cherry-picked bits of history in each others faces when we realize are losing the argument.
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Gavrielle_LaPoste (#84) "No, America doesn't have a happy, pretty history. Neither does your ancestral home, I'll wager. Neither does anyone else's. America's history is only a few hundred years old, but I'll bet you have one that's thousands."
An excellent point. The principal difference between the displacement of the stone age people by more advanced groups in the Americas from elsewhere is that the former took place in historic times, and there are survivors to call attention to it.
Compare the North American experience with Great Britain, for example. GB was first settled by mesolithic people at the end of the last glaciation about 10,000 years ago, crossing from the mainland by a land bridge, just as in North America across the Bering Strait. The sea level rose and the aboriginal people were isolated for a few thousand years. They probably thought they owned the whole place. Then boatbuilding developed to the point where large numbers of invaders could reach the island: Celts, Norse, etc. Where are the descendants of the aboriginal settlers of GB today? All killed or assimilated, presumably, long before recorded history. No record and nobody left to complain.
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Ok, it's been a while, but I'm back. I've read all the posts, some I agree with while others I don't, but what I'm reading on this blog about Fox News being Faux News is entirely uncalled for and blatantly anti free press. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.
It's one thing for you as ordinary people to not like Fox News and switch the channel, but it's another thing entirely for an entire network to be excluded and openly attacked in such a manner by a sitting President of the United States and members of his staff. It is, dare I say it, Nixon-esk. The funny business needs to stop now because it's not funny anymore.
So before yall scoff or get smart-alecky about how ridiculous I'm being, go do some research. I have provided for yall some links that prove in Anita Dunn's own words what is going on in this White House, enjoy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jCL1DRbRU8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xhfyQ5ZZBY
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82 & 83:
What land are yall talking about? When was the last time the USA invaded a nation for the purpose of annexing the land into the US? You'd have to go all the way back to the Spanish American War in the mid-late 1800s. And you forget to mention that it was physically written into the Cuban constitution by Americans after that war that Cuba could not and would not be annexed into the US. The only other possible exception would be the Panama Canal and that was a rental built by the US with American Dollars and later returned to Panama. So you must be mistaken or reaching far back into history. And if you're still stuck on the topic of the indian reservations, you need to get over it; the world has moved on, and it's completely irrelevant to the discussion of America's forces in Afghanistan and Iraq.
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86. At 07:38am on 21 Oct 2009, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
...it's another thing entirely for an entire network to be excluded and openly attacked in such a manner by a sitting President of the United States and members of his staff.
Never fear, when it's time for Obama to run for office again he'll grant them a couple of long, private interviews. Which Fox can then hype as some sort of victory and for which they will get incredible ratings - while Obama gets an immense audience of many millions of viewers, who wouldn't normally listen to him.
It's all calculated, you know, even on the part of Fox. They don't really want him talking to their viewers, but they want to be the ones in charge of dishing out the insults and choosing when and where he can communicate. Wisely, Obama has decided to upset their plan to control the national conversation by cleverly turning things around to his political advantage.
After all, using the birther movement to foment disaffection, and by refusing to air his national speeches, Fox News has spent a great deal of time attempting to delegitimize the President of the United States. He's simply returning the favor.
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So because someone told you this you believe it to be true? Without checking the facts? Without understanding that most Americans were incensed by the Bush administrations heavy handed tactics and he's the most hated President in American history? If I tell you now that it isn't true, that the government undermined these liberties and we've been fighting our own government ever since, would you then change your mind? Would you be shocked to learn that there is evidence that Bush stole both presidential elections? Would you even care that Americans had been living under a fascist government for the last 8 years? Would it even interest you to know that millions of Americans had marched in the streets against the Bush policies from the very start? I doubt it.
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All I know is this. The quote about hypothtical foregin terrorists, was made in 96, not in 2001, because I stopped using it in 98. All I know that because of such acts in 96, and liberation of iraq law, in 98, bush had an easy job to take more liberties from the people...In america, people are ready to give up as much liberty as the state demands, especially if the state can scare them from some hypothetical terrorists. If bush was hated, he wouldnt have been elected again..I believe that people who encourage other nations, and go out of their way to liberate other people from facism, are more sensitive to facist regimes in their own country..If bush was facist, I am sure americans would have gotten rid of him before his term expired..General Musharaff was the most hated president of pakistan, and most beloved for the west..But the pakistanis got rid of him..Because of their protests and marches against him...Americans accepted a fraud election result..if thats democracy, then trust me, the afghans dont want it...
I forgot to mention the slaves in usa, they too one fine morning woke up to find that they would no longer be called, black, or by that N word anymore, that they would be called african americans, and ergo liberated.
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I never said it did. But if you want to change a country's policies, you need to understand why the policies exist in the first place in order to debate them. Just shouting that they are wrong will change nothing.
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I dont want to change the policies of your country, its your country, you change them or not..I have the luxury to react to them, especially if they harm my people, my land, and my family and in that order..
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Never fear, when it's time for Obama to run for office again he'll grant them a couple of long, private interviews. Which Fox can then hype as some sort of victory and for which they will get incredible ratings - while Obama gets an immense audience of many millions of viewers, who wouldn't normally listen to him.
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Fox news says openly what other american channels dance around..Fox channel is bush who talked to blair at that breakfast meeting thinking that the microphone was not stwiched on..the rest of the channels are blair who swtich off the microphone..
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90. At 3:37pm on 21 Oct 2009, colonelartist wrote:
my people, my land, and my family
And which would those be? Or should I say, from where did your family flee in order to get to the West?
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And which would those be? Or should I say, from where did your family flee in order to get to the West?
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this is getting very personal, however, my family from the times of monkeys, have never fled.
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93. At 5:46pm on 21 Oct 2009, colonelartist wrote:
this is getting very personal, however, my family from the times of monkeys, have never fled.
Not personal at all. The area of the world from which one can trace one's ancestry is something of which one ought to be proud. Mine is Ukrainian, though I have no close living relatives left in Europe thanks to the Nazis and Stalin's purges. This informs much of my view of Eastern European politics and German history. It also leaves my family off the hook in regards to much of the worst of American history - so your American Indian genocide and slavery/racism diatribes fall flat where I am concerned. None of that applies to me or my family at all, who came to the US less than a century ago.
And if your family came to the West for economic reasons, then I do wonder at the cause of your visceral hatred for all things Western. Especially if the West has given you a life of safety and comfort from whence you can sit at your computer most days and produce scree after scree of anti-British/anti-American sentiment.
You say you don't want to change the policies that might help your people, though you won't say who they are and so no one can learn to feel any sympathy for them by seeing them through your eyes. And you say you don't want to learn anything beyond what you already know. You just want to express yourself, whilst mocking others opinions in order to prove how much cleverer you are. But it seems to me that what you really want, or need, is simply an audience at which to sling abuse. And for someone who is obviously financially secure, educated and computer literate, again, that's just sad.
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And if your family came to the West for economic reasons, then I do wonder at the cause of your visceral hatred for all things Western. Especially if the West has given you a life of safety and comfort from whence you can sit at your computer most days and produce scree after scree of anti-British/anti-American sentiment.
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I should have written, my family from the times of monkeys do not fled nor do they go or come anywhere. We can trace our family all the way to the monkeys. The legend has it that my familiel monkey ancestors just jumped from one tree to another all day long and when the sun went down where it always go down, they all went back to their home tree.And thats the tradition which my human family has followed..Because we are traditionally very traditional people..Since we come back to to our homes now made of bricks in the evening so we are traditionally first loyal to home aka land.We also adjust to the age and time, if you had a chance of meeting my monkey ancestors you would have found out that they were the best among all the monkeys could jump longest from one tree to another and climb the highest..And from the top of the tree they could see everything including thug and theives and mischief maker monkeys and they were quick to correct them..Same applies to their human ancestors who later on could sit in front of computer and tell the facts and truth from the lies. I have learnt all that has to be learnt..and much beyond it..that which is important to learn..I have no wish to learn things which I will not ever use..I am not going to use american policies, nor do these policies are made to protect me or do me some sort of favour..So why should I learn something which doesnt concern me. To me to learn to climb up a tree is more important than to learn about how people live in usa, what they do and say, and the rest..That which is important i learn..and so i can climb up trees with my eyes closed.
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I wonder if people around the world read these posts and realize that simply making a statement like "Americans think that....." is such a laughably gross over-generalization. Do they realize how disparate and fissipparous the views and population in the US really are? Probably not, or they would realize there is no "typical" American that thinks this or that. But it is so easy to anonymously criticize on a website and avoid any real discussion! From all I have seen of these (and other) exchanges, people don't come to learn or broaden their views or attempt to find empathy, but only to vent their preconceived prejudices.
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I wonder if people around the world read these posts and realize that simply making a statement like "Americans think that....." is such a laughably gross over-generalization. Do they realize how disparate and fissipparous the views and population in the US really are? Probably not, or they would realize there is no "typical" American that thinks this or that. But it is so easy to anonymously criticize on a website and avoid any real discussion! From all I have seen of these (and other) exchanges, people don't come to learn or broaden their views or attempt to find empathy, but only to vent their preconceived prejudices.
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People who generalize should be argued back with generalization.. How many times have you in reality have heard your opponents trying to tell you the same things...Not only you dont know what their narrative is, you dont not want to know...Your information, about your opponents comes from your leaders, your media who tell you what they "believe" what your oppoent's explaination is for their resistance..And if by any chance their side of the story gets to your hearing range, you tell them that they are lying, and insist in believing what your leaders believe...
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ref 95
I'm not even going to try to respond to your particular visual imagery, because that way lies madness. Besides, I was taught me not to feed the monkeys at the zoo.
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I'm not even going to try to respond to your particular visual imagery, because that way lies madness. Besides, I was taught me not to feed the monkeys at the zoo.
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I am proud of my ancestors all the way back to the times of monkey age..
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Mark Mardell:
Will Karzai play ball?
Karzai, will probably not play ball....But, he should be strongly
encourage to...
~Dennis Junior~
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100. Dennis Jr:
"But he should be strongly encouraged to..."
Yes, that's what they are using the vise for.
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