The boundaries of Brand Obama
The president's home city has been knocked out in the first round of the vote to choose the host city for the 2016 Olympic Games, even though he and the First Lady travelled to Copenhagen to push the bid.
A humiliation, a moment of moment or a fact devoid of political meaning? I have no doubt some hostile commentators will argue the former.
The argument had already been doing the rounds that he should concentrate on the big stuff, and not on such trivia.
But that position has already been undermined. He used his European trip to have a meeting in the front of Air Force One with Gen Stanley McChrystal, the top military man in Afghanistan. So not a wasted journey.
It is surely the president's duty to push as hard as possible for an event to be held in his country, when most think it will bring jobs and regeneration. It would have been a dereliction to have sat in the White House, leaving it to his wife.
But it perhaps reveal the limits of charisma, the boundaries of Brand Obama. There is no doubt he is still hugely revered in the rest of the world, even if his support has slipped at home. If he is still a spellbinding superstar, this time the magic touch did not work.
You could argue the president has a history of relying too much on his own personal intervention to solve problems, rather than using it as the final touch on top of a detailed political strategy. That certainly seems to have happened with the healthcare debate.
But perhaps the Olympic judges are not swayed by the last minute arguments, and this reality TV with world leaders is just so much showbiz.
The winning city itself may be more compelling than passionate pleading from a superstar.
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~05~RS~)
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Like all things, the Olympics has its own politics, and "political correctness", and as predicted, Chicago was not to be. That is better for America, and better for Chicago, to be perfectly honest.
Hosting these "professional" sports, is a very costly affair, and it is something the US doesn't need to finance, right now.
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I don't think Obama should have flown to Europe for this. He could have met with Gen. McChrystal in the US at a lower cost (and smaller carbon footprint). That's assuming he went in a 747. I'm not certain what he took. "Air Force One" is whatever airplane is carrying the president.
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2. At 6:14pm on 02 Oct 2009, GH1618 wrote:
I don't think Obama should have flown to Europe for this. He could have met with Gen. McChrystal in the US at a lower cost (and smaller carbon footprint).
There just happens to be a conference going on in Copenhagen that some of us think is even more important to the world as a whole than either the Olympics or Afghanistan.
(I despair.)
Anyway, should anyone be that surprised? Chicago and Hizhoner do not, shall we say, have the purest of reputations for financial probity and whiter-than-white ethics, do they?
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I hope the Europeans didn't get rattled by the sounds of jubilation and sighs of relief come from the State of Illinois and the City of Chicago. Nobody here wanted this. This all His Majesty Richard M. Daley's baby. Illinois tax payers are tired of being Daley's piggybank, and we all would have had to pay for this sooner or later (despite His Majesty's claim's. We know better). Holding the Olympics is a luxury of luxuries, and we can't afford any luxuries.
As for Obama'a Brand, well, just another very loud NO! I'm sure he's getting used to it by now. I just hope the slamming door didn't hit him in the proverbial spot on the way out of Copenhagen. Hey, but at least he finally talked to McChrystal for, what, a whole 20-some minutes. Whoopie! In a world used to hard-nosed, experienced politicians like the Bushes and the Clintons, our unorganized community organizing president is not winning anyone over overseas, and further polarizing us here at home. It's time to rebrand (something the liberals are great at) from campaign mode to actually running the country mode. Somebody give that man a spine and a list of priorities or get him out of office, PLEASE!
I swear it seems like his whole administration hasn't yet to realize the election is over and he won. Or is it they've realized they're already on the way out and are campaigning for 2010/2012? Yeah, that's probably it.
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I'm a big Obama fan and I'm sure Chicago is a lovely city -- But frankly, I'm excited for Brazil. This will be wonderful for them.
By lobbying for Chicago to get the Olympics, I imagine our Pres might have been fulfilling a promise to 'try for the gold'...
-- Good work, Barack. Now, back to work.
By not winning I feel good that the Olympic Committee wasn't merely 'trying for the cash'...
-- Good work, Olympians. High Score for International Ethics.
Hosting the Olympics brings 'foreign money' into a country. It seems silly for countries with more money to host it, especially if it means that the exchange rate makes it difficult for poorer countries to participate. There are countries who could really use the revenue boost and the opportunity to develop their tourism infrastructure.
-- Rock On, Rio! Congratulations!
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It sounds like Obama is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.
With his home town bidding for the Olympics he had to support the bid by being there in person. Me thinks the Chicago bid failed him and not the other way round. Anyway, Rio had the best bid by far.
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First, as someone who currently lives in Chicago let me say, "Praise the Lord and pass the champagne!" The only people who wanted the Olympics here were those who stood to gain something (or didn't understand what was really happening). The rest of us would have ended up footing the bill and possibly losing our homes, since this was nothing more than another real estate developer instigated Daley machine land grab at the taxpayers expense.
Second, everyone, except maybe the pundits, knew that Chicago was going to lose as soon as Rio started talking up the fact that the Games have never been held in South America. Lot's of guilt to be tapped there. Big sympathy vote for the downtrodden. Yadda, yadda, yadda.
Lastly, Obama went so that no one could blame the loss on his not going. I'm sure he knew it was a waste of time which is why he only devoted a whole four hours to it, but if he hadn't done it they'd blame the loss entirely on him. Now it's on the IOC and everyone's talking about his star appeal being lost. Get real. The IOC doesn't vote based on who comes to town and who doesn't. They just like the prestige of having international leaders fawning over them. Makes them feel powerful when they're not.
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Dear Squirrel Nutkin (#3), don't despair!
Might not Obama (our first Green President) have been efficiently traveling internationally for multiple purposes? Might he not have been making connections that might prove useful in a few months? I am ever hopefull...
Of course, you are correct about our ethical stigma. Chicago has a terrible reputation for under-the-table-dealings. My own dear Philadelphia has had it's own Mafias as well (Irish, Italian, Black Panthers, etc.) BUT in recent generations we have seen more young multicultural people actually give a sh17 about their neighborhoods, about civil rights, about ecological responsibility.
So, judge Chicago not by its covert 'Old-White-Guys-with-Connections'. Cities can change.
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#7 Gavrielle_LaPoste
Rio also has the advantage of staging the FIFA World Cup in 2014 - so the infrastructure part of their bid was strong. The World Cup being only two years before gives the IOC an unique opportunity to have the Olympics in South America. It reminds me of Mexico in 1968 and 1970 except this time the events are the other way round.
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Can someone mention one thing President Obama has accomplished since he became President over 8 months ago? His plan to get government funded health care is in serious troube in Congress. Remember how it would be passed by the August recess, then Labor Day? His energy tax is in trouble. He's made no progress on Iran or North Korea. He's made no progress on peace in the Middle East. His stimulus plan's success is limited at best, and of highly dubious long term effectiveness. All the Secretary of the Treasury can say is that things were worse a year ago, worse when he took office. The cash for clunkers program that ended seems to have confirmed its worst critics complaint about it, it merely accelerated purchases that would have happened anyway. He hasn't pulled out of Iraq, his own general says he's in grave jeopardy of losing in Afghanistan, he gets only lip service from America's fair weather allies in NATO, he's been snubbed by the Russians, by the Venezuelans, by Iran, can't close GITMO as promised because he has no place to put the prisoners (exactly what Bush said) and now he goes to Denmark to get the Olympic games for Chicago and loses that too. So in this global village, where is the world's number one community organizer?
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The rodeo-clown manner in which Right-handed wingnuts in the US gave Obama grief for traveling to Copenhagen was petulant and silly. If the president hadn't gone to lobby and Chicago had then lost, the very same hypocrites would be bouncing off the walls like chimps.
Quite frankly, Chicago dodged a bullet in not succeeding with their bid, and most of its citizens will agree. This was not a case of Obama's failed charisma...Brazil needed and deserved this win, and Rio prevailed on the merits. Whatever you might think of Lula da Silva, he made a good case and S. America will host its first Olympics. Obama is sanguine enough to recognize that nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come.
Viva la caipirinha...
Viva Brazil...
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Don't you think it was inapropriate for the president to become personally involved in the Olympics? And to chamption Chicago, Illinois, is embarrassing. Illinois vies with New Jersey for corruption.
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Also it is a story that 'helps to bury the bad news' of soaring unemployment..
See, replace a REALLY dreadful story with some bad news, and you are already ahead of the game...
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Geisha;
"Obama is sanguine enough to recognize that nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come."
Too bad he didn't recognize that before his plane took off. He might have saved the taxpayers the cost of the trip.
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"A humiliation, a moment of moment or a fact devoid of political meaning?"
I believe the latter. President Obama, like other former US Presidents, favored holding the games in a US city, some succeeded other's didn't. None were affected positively or negatively by the decision made by the Olympic committee and life simply goes on.
I think Rio de Janeiro is a wonderful choice. Rio is a beautiful and vibrant city with sports and tourist facilities capable of accomodating athletes and hosts, and Brazil's robust economy suggest they will not have a problem providing the funding needed to make this a memorable event.
Congratulations!
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U.S. cities have hosted Olympics (both Summer and Winter Games) several times.
Japan and Spain both hosted the Games as well.
Olympics were never held in South America, an since its countries have a snowball in hell chance to host Winter Games (except perhaps for Chile during N. Hemisphere's summer) it was only fair Rio's got it.
Whether Rio will be able to pull it off, with its high level of corruption, crime and violence (not to mention 'magnana' attitude) is another story.
I hope Brazilians are succesful and don't end up with a huge deficit after the Games, like so many other cities did.
P.S. Being seen with gen. McChrystal may be good for Mr. Obama's image.
Still not giving Stanley a clear official answer as to what he can count on in Afghanistan - probably not so good.
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Yes, the tarnishing of brand Obama was inevitable as reality always deflates rhetoric in the real world.
But the failed bid by chicago is small potatoes and it would be presumptuous -from what by all accounts is an unpretentious man- to assume he can show up, spend 5 hours in Denmark, make and speech and go home with victory in hand.
I don't live too far from Chicago but I do not think they deserved the Games. Blago, Daley (both) and the long and glorious history of corruption there has not endeared that city to me.
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9. At 7:12pm on 02 Oct 2009, dceilar wrote:
#7 Gavrielle_LaPoste
Rio also has the advantage of staging the FIFA World Cup in 2014 - so the infrastructure part of their bid was strong.
I had a look at both bids, and I don't think it was just that. The IoC now requires hosting cities to leave a legacy based on the infrastructure that will continue to benefit their citizens over the long term, and I think Rio had that quite strongly, and Chicago didn't. And Rio's looked as though they really really wanted it, too, not just for Brazil, but for the whole of South America, and I dare say that helped.
I don't know why Chicago bid, to be honest, unless they thought they could leap on the back of the Obama charisma bandwagon as Mark tentatively suggests; after all, the USA has had its fair share over the last few decades, surely? Poor old London had to wait 60 years to have a proper go at it unhampered by the rubble, destruction (and rationing!) of a war that had only ended three years before after all.
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Quite simply, it was right that a South American country finally gets to host the Olympics. The decision was the right one and it is actually grossly disrespectful of blogs like this to go and focus on Obama and the failed Chicago bid rather than praising the Rio bid and focusing on that. To me, it's just another example of how much of the Western media looks down on South America to an extent, often whilst pumping out the usual stereotypes about drugs, football and samba rhythms.
Obama is getting a fearful kicking in the US from people too gutless to ever speak out about the previous occupant of the White House. It is ludicrous that they will curse Obama over an issue like healthcare yet the voices were silent when it came to throwing troops into combat in two different countries.
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19. At 8:16pm on 02 Oct 2009, AndyPlowright wrote:
"To me, it's just another example of how much of the Western media looks down on South America"
16. At 8:02pm on 02 Oct 2009, powermeerkat wrote:
"Whether Rio will be able to pull it off, with its high level of corruption, crime and violence. . ."
Point proved, I think, but don't blame the 'Western media".
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This is one occassion there is no need to take a shot at President Obama.
It was pretty obvious Rio was going to get it. Summer Games have never been in South Ameerica
The City of Chicago was very divided on having the games anyway.
Michelle as usual made a fool out of herself claiming what a sacrfice it was for Oprah and her to come to Copenhagen to lobby for the games
Flying on a private plane to a great Europeancity with one of the most remarkable self made woman in history.
Well I supposed Oprah sacrficed she had to be with Michelle.
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Give O a break, the Olympic judges are notoriously corrupt
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MarcusAureliusII:
Even a casual observer would note that statecraft is part theater, and as I wrote: "If the president hadn't gone to lobby and Chicago had then lost, the very same hypocrites would be bouncing off the walls like chimps".
With your comment you appear to have demonstrated my point old boy. Have yourself a banana with that caipirinha.
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Geisha
"Even a casual observer would note that statecraft is part theater"
Seems like the curtain has fallen and the show is closing.
I'd rather be a monkey's uncle than a toothless clawless kitten that was once mistaken for a lion like the Mew-Cay.
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21. At 8:33pm on 02 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
"Flying on a private plane to a great Europeancity with one of the most remarkable self made woman in history."
Really? Who was that, then?
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I have to disagree with the BBC's comments here. Obama met with Gen. MacChrystal for 25 minutes. 25 minutes? That's barely enough time to personally tell him to stop talking about more troops for Afghanistan.
Moreover, the fact that Obama and his wife flew separately to Copenhagen, presumably on taxpayer money, is appalling at a time when budget austerity should be the watchword.
Besides, Obama has more pressing work at home, work that should already be far advanced if not completed. Meanwhile, the IOC and many Europeans no doubt still think of Chicago as gangster and crime-infested.
This was a public relations and political disaster for Obama even if he was not the only national leader to make a personal appeal for a city.
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9. At 7:12pm on 02 Oct 2009, dceilar wrote:
#7 Gavrielle_LaPoste
Rio also has the advantage of staging the FIFA World Cup in 2014 - so the infrastructure part of their bid was strong. The World Cup being only two years before gives the IOC an unique opportunity to have the Olympics in South America. It reminds me of Mexico in 1968 and 1970 except this time the events are the other way round.
The FIFA World Cup was here in 1994 and they're bidding on it again for 2018. I don't know if that influences anything, but I can tell you that native Chicagoans (I'm a native New Yorker) were not impressed with being World Cup hosts. Most bars, even sports bars located near hotels around the venue (Soldier Field), were showing baseball games on their televisions while FIFA was in town.
18. At 8:04pm on 02 Oct 2009, squirrellist wrote:
I don't know why Chicago bid, to be honest, unless they thought they could leap on the back of the Obama charisma bandwagon as Mark tentatively suggests; after all, the USA has had its fair share over the last few decades, surely?
Mayor Daley came up with the idea long before Obama became remotely famous. He's been working on it as part of his "legacy" for ages. The whole Olympic bid fit nicely with his desire to use eminent domain to gentrify large areas on the South Side of Chicago where the locals have successfully resisted developers' plans for more than 20 years. All building in Chicago is controlled at the neighborhood level by aldermen and the city council. If he'd gotten is way he could have run roughshod over all of them and taken what he and his friends have wanted for as long as they've been in power. As in, complete control of the land in some of the wealthiest historically African American neighborhoods anywhere in America.
Now granted, these areas are, in many cases, blighted. I know, I've lived there. But that's because the city refuses to service many of these areas beyond residential garbage pickups and making certain the traffic lights and sewers are working. Many sidewalks are cracked, the streets are pocked with potholes and poor patch jobs, city owned buildings are dilapidated or burned out hulks, huge tracts of land have been illegally used as dumping sites, the police come to your assistance if they feel like it (I speak from personal experience here), local fire houses are the first to get cut, and the people are treated as if this were all their fault. It's not. The area thrived before the current Mayor Daley's daddy deliberately ran a train (the red line) and matching 8 lane highway right down the middle of the South Side (using eminent domain) and destroyed every historically black neighborhood in its path. This is where the term "red lining" comes from, by the way. Prosperous black neighborhoods were systematically red lined and ghettoized to the "wrong" side of the tracks.
What remains of the South Side has some of the best and most beautiful old housing stock in the city. Most of which has been rendered inaccessible to corrupt developers, who are Mayor Daley's biggest supporters. The Olympics must have seemed like a perfect opportunity to silence all critics as they seized these properties, many of which are heirloomed so that they cannot be sold outside the family.
To truly understand what happened in Chicago, you have to really know something about the city's history. It wasn't just the infrastructure, or the World Cup that cost Mayor Daley the Games, it was also the people themselves writing privately to the IOC and telling them not to come to Chicago. Chicagoans have nothing against the Olympics, but it was time someone told Mayor Daley NO.
That said, I'm happy London has finally gotten a chance to host the Games again. You're right. The US has had many opportunities to do this over the last 60 years. We could use a break.
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The 45 million that voted for Obama's opponent knew Obama's limitations- he's a fake. When are you going to cover Acorn?
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ref
You are kidding right?
I am refering to Oprah.
And although I personbaly find her show almost as annoying as the view she was never given a 300K no show job.
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I did not necessarily think Chicago would win, but I think it deserved higher than fourth place. It was a huge diss to the USA, as a whole, and especially a diss to President Obama, as well as a diss toward the first African-American to try to hold an Olympics. But the IOC may not want an African-American running the show.
For geographic reasons, why would Madrid and Japan be picked before Chicago?
Madrid is in Europe, so why would so many IOC members vote to have a third Olympics in a row in Europe again? Yet this was the highest voted for country the first round. SO that Madrid made it so far was clearly politically motivated and someone was paid off.
Japan was not likely to be picked due to it being next to China. If Japan had won, it would have been two Asian cities close together.
So geographically speaking, Rio and Chicago should have been the final two. That is, if the IOC was fair. But they are not fair. They never have been and never likely will be.
To be fair to Rio, South America has not ever held an Olympics. So that is good for them. But is it good for the athletes?
Rio has the lowest rated security and safety level, out of Madrid, Japan and Chicago. Rio also has the lowest amount of money to spend on an Olympics. Also, Rio has the World Cup two years before that.
So if Rio is the least safe and least funded, why pick Rio?
Just because they have never had it before. (is the answer) It does not have to do with safety and security, because they are ranked the lowest.
I hope for the athletes' sake that Rio is more secure in 2016 than it is now. Because if Rio does not have enough security, hotel rooms and venues, athletes and spectators may not even want to go.
Chicago should have got second place. I think we lost because we over-celebritized. President Obama and Mrs. Obama brought many celebrities and Olympic athletes. This, along with the USA's top security, overwhelmed the IOC. They could not handle the celebrity.
But perhaps this happened for a reason. God works in mysterious ways. Chicago and the state of Illinois will save millions, perhaps billions.
Chicago, Illinois and the USA should not feel bad. After all, the USA has more gold medals than any other country has had throughout the history of the Olympics. That in itself speaks volumes about the quality of USA athletes. You just have to look at Michael Phelps, who has won more gold medals than any other single athlete in the Olympics, ever. USA can hold its head high because we are the highest ranking country for gold medals and forever a large part of Olympic history.
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Interestingly enough, the US has had several successful bids for hosting the Olympics in the past without a president lobbying for them. Maybe he did actually combine trips to be more economical, but I'm getting tired of a Celebrity-in-Chief. I don't think it was any duty of his to do anything of the sort; we're in a crisis and yet the man can't go a week without commandeering as much television time as possible or flying off on fool's errands. The Olympics get 4 hours, Gordon Brown gets to walk through back rooms for a few minutes, Gen. McChrystal gets 20 minutes-- there is no reasonable explanation for these exceedingly misplaced priorities. The campaign's over-- perhaps "yes you could," Mr. President, if you'd actually consider the responsibilities of your office.
I'm glad Rio has them, and as a less established country, and a South American country, yeah, their president was right to be there. Ours wasn't.. it's like the big kid on the playground trying to kick every other kid away from the tetherball post.
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I tuned out of the BBC’s US web coverage long ago after too many snide comments and cheap attention-grabbing headlines. I enjoyed your thoughtful and well-informed European coverage and have looked forward to your blog. However, I think using the Olympic decision as the springboard for addressing “Brand Obama” and its boundaries needs more thought.
With respect to the Olympics, Obama had no choice but to go to Copenhagen. He would have been blamed even more nastily had he not gone. He was not responsible for the quality of the Chicago bid. The President and Mrs. Obama made superb speeches but the fact is that the Chicago Committee’s vision, planning, preparation, presentation and responses to questions were second-rate. Moreover, even if Chicago had packaged its bid with the professionalism and vibrancy of the Brazilians, it is also clear that South America is a long overdue host. Despite what he may have suspected was an inevitable choice, the President did his job and used the opportunity well, as usual, to convey his vision for changing both the role and perception of the US from world bully to world partner.
With respect to challenges and effectiveness, Obama recognizes, as the predominantly white Republican Party is unwilling to do, that the world is evolving rapidly into a multi-polar collection of countries, each with increasingly diverse populations. He has already done wonders in his efforts to repair the damage wrought by the old white male establishment. He may not yet have changed as much as a majority of the country had hoped for but he walks multiple tightropes in the face of implacable foes. He has a long way to go and needs all the support we can give him.
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Chicago has something more important than the Olympics...and that's Jay Cutler and the Chicago Bears! Da Bears!
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Obama's chicago buddies must be saying - Oh! bummer. They must have been all set to make a killing on this one at the tax payers expense. When was the last time that Chicago had a project go on time, on budget and without any of Daley's buddies winning the contract(s).
I am glad that the tax payers of Chicago got a good deal.
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27. Gavrielle_LaPoste
Thanks. Very enlightening. Something tells me the BBC's Washington office might benefit from more inquisitive researchers. Or just more.
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35
Another word is 'depressing' of course.
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In my opinion President Obama is a very astute political operator. He is neither a superstar, still less revered in Europe.
One of his key skills is deflecting attention away from what he is really up to. So he fly the Atlantic held a photo call in front of Air Force One with the Military commander in, wait for it, Iraq - no, Afghanistan - yes. Could it just be that he is setting up the stage for getting US troops out of Iraq and then out of the Middle East as a whole. To do this he needs the support if not the direct help of the pesky Europeans. Could just be.
Oh, and by the way the King and Queen of Spain were also there and Madrid did not get the Olympics either. Obama speaks Spanish does he not....
Mike, Barcelona, Spain
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30: Interesting point of view on divine intervention.
"The Lord moves in mysterious ways
To save Chicago's dollars for better days."
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Obama doesn't purport to be the "Celebrity in Chief". That's the media's doings. It's getting so obnoxious, but President Obama isn't to blame for it. Or are you one of those people that blame him for EVERYTHING, like losing the Olympics. This feels like so much ado about nothing!
Congratulations to Rio!
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I took part in a number of online polls on which of the candidate cities should win the next Olympics, and I chose Rio in every case because I felt it deserved them. I also voted for Obama and gave money to Obama, and I continue to support Obama (at least if he comes through on health reform with a robust poblic option). I think a great many people agree with me on both. I listened to part of today's State Department briefing and was disgusted at the way the reporters barracked Obama about the Olympics and whether it was a personal defeat for him. I think he owed it to the city which gave him his start, and that he failed is not the sort of administration failure that failure in health care would be. I do believe many of you in the news media are totally clueless as far as what is important and what isn't, and wish you would open your eyes as well as your minds.
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Speaking of ACORN- the recent bill that passed to defund ACORN would also technically bar a number of corporations that have filed false reports with the government from getting government money. This includes corporations like Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrup Grumman, General Dynamics... and the list goes on. Will the BBC cover this?
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He swept into Europe thinking all he has to do is give out the same old smile, move his head from side to side at exactly the same time as he always does, deliver the same speech he always does, and send in his wife and family as he always does. What he didn't realise is the rest of the world saw through him a long time ago. The President has nothing to offer, only those who want him to succeed regardless of how useless he is actually want him, and most of those who wanted him to win had no idea of a single policy, they just wanted him for one agenda. He came to Europe with nothing, and was sent back looking stupid with even less. Americans - it's not a blessing, it's a defeat.
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Illinoisan wrote:
Chicago has something more important than the Olympics...and that's Jay Cutler and the Chicago Bears! Da Bears!
Anothing loser team from Chicago. Now hoping to see 150 years of Cubs futility
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Obama was already blown out by the Ghaddifi UN appearance of 23 September. I like the man, but Michelle & Barack gave hokey speeches the same as they always give, about home, or grandparents.
He should just have put on a track suit top and talked about sports.
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Thank goodness this is over. Now, Mr. Obama, can you please, please make a decision on Afghanistan deployment and follow up on closing the Gitmo prison?
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37. At 10:24pm on 02 Oct 2009, MikeE-BCN wrote:
Oh, and by the way the King and Queen of Spain were also there and Madrid did not get the Olympics either. Obama speaks Spanish does he not....
Sorry, Mike. He doesn't speak Spanish. And if he did, it would probably be a Latin American dialect. I'm not sure the King and Queen of Spain would be impressed with that.
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35. At 10:18pm on 02 Oct 2009, squirrellist wrote:
Thanks. Very enlightening. Something tells me the BBC's Washington office might benefit from more inquisitive researchers. Or just more.
Actually, a quick search via Google would have told even the most casual observer that there was no grassroots support for the Games in Chicago. According to reporter Ben Jaworsky writing today in the Chicago Reader, "After spending hours in and around Washington Park, I finally found a resident who'd really, really wanted the Olympics to come to Chicago." Turns out the man had purchased property in the area and was hoping to rent it out to visitors during the Games at outrageous prices.
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I was surprised Rio won but am excited and happy for Brazilians. This was unexpected.
To be truth told, I knew Chicago wouldn't win and it has nothing to do with Obama. I dunno why people look at this as if Obama failed. Have they all already forgotten Atlanta?
IOC made a vow after 1996 Atlanta that all Olympics Games should be paid by public spending/government, no private funding. IOC again send the message loud and clear by knocking Chicago out first (NYC was knocked out in 2nd round). Nothing to do with Anti-Americanism (as some news outlet are asking that jeeez).
United States of America will not host the Olympics ever again until it decide to fully fund the Games from public spending.
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Squirreliest;
"Something tells me the BBC's Washington office might benefit from more inquisitive researchers. Or just more."
As journalists, BBC is about on a par with a fair to middling American High School newspaper. What they lack in quality, they more than make up for in quantity. There's an army of them and sometimes it seems they will find any excuse to come to America at British taxpayer expense.
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Obama's plug for Chicago was such an obvious political payoff that the IOC was quite right to discount it.
South America was long overdue a chance to host the games and let's face it, who wouldn't rather travel to Rio than Chicago!
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Ref 42, Tendiam
"What he didn't realise is the rest of the world saw through him a long time ago."
President Obama is more popular abroad than he is at home. What the OIC did not like was the second-rate proposal put forth by Chicago to host the games. I suspect other considerations include the fact that both Europe and the USA have hosted the games more than once, while South America never had the opportunity to do it before.
There are limits to Barack Obama's charisma; performing miracles is one of them.
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33. At 10:17pm on 02 Oct 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
Chicago has something more important than the Olympics...and that's Jay Cutler and the Chicago Bears! Da Bears!
------------
Go Bears! Go Hawks!
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After reading that excellent long post from Gavrielle_LaPoste, I feel wiser.I knew nothing about redlining. Funny how I've never read about it anywhere before ...
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"The president's home city has been knocked out in the first round of the vote to choose the host city for the 2016 Olympic Games, even though he and the First Lady travelled to Copenhagen to push the bid."
You know what? Sometimes people do the right thing. South America deserves an Olympics. If Athens can do it, Rio can do it.
Of all the possible venues for the summer games, I prefer they be held anywhere but the U.S. The U.S. is always at least number two in the summer games no matter where they're held, but when you factor in the very real home field advantage that exists in the Olympics, we just win too much when it takes place here. It feels a little like we're showing up the rest of the world. I don't like it. That's not the Olympic spirit.
Also, two weeks of stories on Rio beats two weeks of stories on Chicago any day.
I don't feel the same way about the winter games, by the way. Americans are the underdogs there, and I like that. On those rare occasions when we win the downhill, for instance, beating all-powerful Austrians, well, that's a really good feeling.
But we need home..er..slope advantage for that.
It's probably the same feeling the rest of the world gets when the American favorite goes down in swimming... and as bummed out as I am when that happens, I wouldn't deny that feeling to anyone.
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He swept into Europe thinking all he has to do is give out the same old smile, move his head from side to side at exactly the same time as he always does,
--------------------------
No dear #43, Obama just went to support Chicago's cause to do his part. Rest of it "thinking all he has to do.." are just your words. Don't confuse your dislike of Obama with simple facts. It is an unhealthy to believe you live in someone else's mind.
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First of all there is no brand Obama. The media made that up and now the media mocks it. Secondly, Rio in retrospect is the logical choice. No matter what Japan, Spain and the U.S. (or 'brand Obama' as Mardell said)does, they have all hosted the Olympics before. Rio for its shortcomings (which they have promised to overcome and I'm sure they will)is the first Olympics host city in history. This fact alone trumps everybody else. Now add to that fact the beauty of Rio and the title of 'The happiest city' in the world and you have to admit Rio has always been the frontrunner among the contenders. Now get over it and get behind Rio. It's not like it's in North Korea or Iran after all. Well done Rio.
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good blog post, wish mine were as good.
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Found this comment on HYS:
Now the Olympics will help add to the destruction.......
Over 20 % of the Amazon rain forest has been destroyed and lost forever.
How much hastening of the destruction will be incured to help pay for Olympic Games in Rio. Now the Olympics will be an enabler to this sad greed. Maybe some if not most of the wood will come from there, the ethanol from plantations fomerly Rainforest, and the meat from cleared Rainforest land , now used for grazing.
Sad ! ecological carnage.
Andrew, Co.USA
P.S. Those who claim that Rio does not have a very high rate of crime and violence (in a large part drug and gang related) have obviously never been to Rio. Or if they have, they never bothered to travel more than 5 km from its center.
And those who claim that Rio doesn't have a high level of corruption have obviously never tried to do any business there.
[Not that Lula's government officials in Brasilia are less corrupted.
Judging by reports in the BRAZILIAN media.]
P.P.S. We'll find out only after 2012 Olympic Games whether London has benefited financially from their staging as much as from the reconstructon of its Wembley Stadium.
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Re#27
I still remember mayor Daly's dad. The one, who, when JFK asked him whether he could count on Chicago' vote asked "How many votes do you need?". And who, after famously appealing "Vote early, vote often"
DID deliver required numbers, including votes of some stiffs from Windy City's cemeteries.
Oh,the famous Chicago Democratic Party machine.
Second only to that in New Orleans.
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30. At 10:00pm on 02 Oct 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
"It was a huge diss to the USA, as a whole, and especially a diss to President Obama, as well as a diss toward the first African-American to try to hold an Olympics. But the IOC may not want an African-American running the show."
So Copenhagen and the IOC are racist for not choosing Chicago over the rest because Obama is black? Just because he is black, should he have been given the Olympics on a silver platter? Or is it because he is black and never had an opportunity to run the Olympic show before and that was darn rude of them to diss him like that?
Are you kidding me? Chicago came in last. Deal with it.
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Over40Crowd, dont you find anything suspicious that chicago was the last one after being the most qualified city with proven funding and infrastructure, that you have to patronize us with "Chicago came in last. Deal with it"? It's absurd not to recognize the anti-americanism and politics playing in. Thats why we shouldnt let it go, how about Americans stop funding this farce of an event, or not to have the europeans vote at all since they cant make good unbiased judgements.
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... Chicago is home to 107 corporate headquarters (second only to New York), two of the top ten universities of the world, stunning architecture, and city's GDP of $460 billion. Chicago is a winner without olympics, so please enough of talking nonsense! No city is immune to corruption and crime.
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56. At 03:29am on 03 Oct 2009, bikermouse66 wrote: "First of all there is no brand Obama. The media made that up and now the media mocks it.... "
For the first time, I want to object with bikermouse to the way you have framed this blog, Mark.
As several posters have noted, the 'media' seem continuously poised to put Mr. Obama in the 'damned if you do, and damned if you don't' corner over every event, meaningful and meaningless alike.
As was often said at the time, far too much has been expected of this president from the beginning. Now every disappointment of glory, significant or not, is measured to see if it might serve as a coffin for the presidency, the man, and the experiment at change that his election represents. We are now about eight months into the first year of his term, just about the point where any sensible observer would have predicted the shine if not the glamour to wear off.
If journalism is at its roots a means of broadcasting the truth, then even commentary of a journalistic nature ought to refrain from shooting in the dark just to see if someone or something out there might yelp.
I look forward, as always, to your perspective on these times.
KScurmudgeon
too old for tomfoolery
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A relevant HYS comment:
Congratulations to Brazil. Be careful if may prove to be a loss for you, watch the greed and money. It cost the US around 2 million dollars for Obama, Oprah, and Michelle to woo Europe with their glitz. What a waste that was for the suffering American people who are going bankrupt during this economic mess. Don't worry Obama will release the stimulus money , probably just before his reelection bid for a second term. Obama tried with the IOC in Europe. Meanwhile in Afghanistan troops are left out
American Grizzly, United States
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58. At 04:10am on 03 Oct 2009, powermeerkat wrote:
"How much hastening of the destruction will be incured to help pay for Olympic Games in Rio. Now the Olympics will be an enabler to this sad greed. Maybe some if not most of the wood will come from there, the ethanol from plantations fomerly Rainforest, and the meat from cleared Rainforest land , now used for grazing.
Sad ! ecological carnage."
From the examples you give, it appears you define 'ecological carnage' to be any act of humankind on the planet. How would you propose we celebrate the human spirit, which is why we call these pan-humanic events 'games'? Or is there nothing human worth celebrating?
Who would rescue the planet except us? Why is it you care about something that every one of these animals and plants you cherish mindlessly take for granted? Animals would and doubtless have exterminated species thoughtlessly, out of hunger and territorial competition.
I am all for living here responsibly, but the first requirement then must be to accept that we are given responsibility as a gift, and that for this reason we are a gift. Don't forget to appreciate the power as you criticize it.
KScurmudgeon
grumpy
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#63. airspace86: "how about Americans stop funding this farce of an event"
Your air space if full of hot air. Americans do not fund the Olympic movement; each host city and its nation pay to produce the Olympic Games. In 1984, Los Angeles did so without using a penny of taxpayers' money and made a profit; in 2012 London will host the Games and which is funded by the British Government. There was nothing anti-American about the choice of Rio de Janeiro; there was no similar reaction when London was chosen over New York for 2012. For anyone to think that a brief appearance by the President would sway the judges is to misunderstand the entire selection process.
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To #68 I was condemning the Olympic Committee and their voting bias, and IOC gets 60% revenues directly from American sponsors. NY lost because there wasnt much government support unlike this year.
Lets not be naive there was so much bias in voting. I'm only annoyed at the arrogance of the international voters who eliminated chicago first, not that America didnt win. Actually I'm glad we didnt, only 30% of Chicagoans wanted to win the olympics anyway, and rightly so...
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I think it absolute hogwash to suggest that Chicago's unsuccessful bid for the Olympics is a slap-in-the-face for Obama. Of course, he wanted their bid to win like most other North Americans but to politicise this is sheer bunkum.
He had nothing to do with their bid and it obvious it wasn't good compared to the others short-listed.
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I am tired of the US obsession in the UK, why does it always have to be something about the US, Obama, etc. The reality is that Obama was not humiliated, he did not lose political power beacause of the olypic bid, the fact is that the olympic comittee chose a country in the map where the olympic games had never been held before. Is this a tragedy? Surely not! Not every event has to be hosted by Europe and the US, give me a break!
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53. At 01:02am on 03 Oct 2009, Didactylid wrote:
I knew nothing about redlining. Funny how I've never read about it anywhere before ...
And you won't unless you read history books written by black Americans or talk to people who lived through that period in Chicago. Essentially, the phrase was coined by Chicago activists in the 1960s. Anyone on the wrong side of the Red Line, i.e. the undesirables, couldn't get mortgages, small business loans or were turned down for jobs based on their addresses.
I actually had this happen to me once. I'd gotten this very good job at one of the big Chicago advertising companies and was filling out the final paper work when the personnel manager came in and asked me if I didn't mean to write North Hoyne and not South. Seeing as how I'd only been living in Chicago for a few months, I must have made a mistake. I hadn't and she said nothing, but that night she called me at home and told me the man I was supposed to work for, who'd been so enthusiastic he'd wanted me to start immediately, suddenly didn't think it would "work out".
As you can imagine, I was very confused about this and told my closest friend about it. She explained redlining and the history of the term. And she did it from personal experience, because she happens to be black. That's how I found out about it.
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ref #69
I am happy Rio won, it is south America's turn.
However that Madrid came second because the former head of the IOC Samarach who is held in contempt by most of the sports world outside of the IOC is disgusting.
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Ref 69, airspace
The OIC does have an open-ended contract with the USOC, and most of its revenues come from Olympic television rights fees and global marketing. IMO, this commercial deals, like the decision to allow NBA players to participate in what were meant to be amateur sports events, undermine the credibility of the Olumpic games.
U.S. companies do pay the lion's share of the OIC's revenues, but they don't do it for altruistic purposes, covering the Okympic games is a very profitable business deal for TV networks and manufacturers of sports products. As an example, NBC paid $894 million to televise the Beijing Games, compared to $443.5 million from the European Broadcasting Union and $7 million from Chinese sponsors.
These business deals do not require the OIC to hold the games in the USA, they simply give the applicable sponsors the right to televise the games and advertise their products for a fee.
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Ref 65, KSC
"As was often said at the time, far too much has been expected of this president from the beginning. Now every disappointment of glory, significant or not, is measured to see if it might serve as a coffin for the presidency, the man, and the experiment at change that his election represents. We are now about eight months into the first year of his term, just about the point where any sensible observer would have predicted the shine if not the glamour to wear off."
We are also at about the same point as George W. Bush was when 9/11 occurred, and in that case he was absolved in part because he had not been in office long enough to take preventive action...
Consistency and fairness are not among our greatest virtues.
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76:
Why?
I point out various xenophobic emphases in the US media, ask if Rio had been rejected if that would have been a snub to Pele for the same reasons Chicago's is a snub to Obama, wonder why reports emphasise unnecessarily that an awkward question to the Chicago team came from a Pakistani member of the IOC, and suggest that there is more to the legacy of the Games expected now to benefit a city than turning a commercial profit over a month.
So, why is that referred? I cannot call an 'r' thing by the word for it? Is that why? It's ridiculous.
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I think it was a lost cause, but better to get up there and talk it up than be suspiciously absent.
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And, no, I am not going to rewrite a long-ish considered post when I do not know the reason for its being referred, nor can even infer it. I have never had to do that professionally for an editor, have never in my career been subjected to it, and I am not going to do it on a BBC blog for some anonymous moderator, Mr Mardell.
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#69.
Gee, do you think that maybe it's the fact that the USOC patented the Olympic symbols in 1978 and then made sure that the IOC has to turn over all profits from TV and Marketingcontracts on American soil to them?
Or how about that they had to sign a contract with the USOC in 1996 which gets the USOC 448 million dollar in revenues for which they haven't got to move a figure, while the rest of the world (about 200 Olympic committees) get about 173 million, combined!
How about that US refuses to help foot the bill for the World Anti-Doping Committee? (Not suspicious at all, by the way ;) ) And face it, 1996 and Salt Lake weren't exactly the high points of Olympic history.
This is just a signal from the IOC that they're tired of the American attitude on the part. Obama couldn't have changed any of that.
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Ref 77, Magic
"However that Madrid came second because the former head of the IOC Samarach who is held in contempt by most of the sports world outside of the IOC is disgusting."
Madrid came second because of its excellent sports facilities, the number of five star hotels and restaurants in the city and its vicinity. and because it is a major tourist destination. Juan Antonio Samaranch is widely respected outside the USA, but he lost credibility when he used his age in an attempt to influence a favorable ruling in Copenhagen.
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81. At 12:06pm on 03 Oct 2009, Ryushinku wrote:
"I think it was a lost cause, but better to get up there and talk it up than be suspiciously absent."
I suspect t was, and if anybody actually looked at the relevant bids in detail, rather than what has been said about Chicago's, you see why. (Quite apart from whatever impact Mayor Daley--or Oprah Winfrey--may have had. I rather doubt if many IOC members watch the Oprah Winfrey Show.)
All I can say is, given the reactions I've read, it is a blessing that Islamabad, Caracas or Teheran didn't bid for the 2016 Olympics against Chicago and win. We'd have had a war . . .
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Ref 85, Squirrellist
"All I can say is, given the reactions I've read, it is a blessing that Islamabad, Caracas or Teheran didn't bid for the 2016 Olympics against Chicago and win. We'd have had a war . . ."
I second that motion...
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Obama is typical of our elected officials-he does what he wants to do-
and is destroying our democracy,But this time he can't cry prejudice.
Why would you want to have in Chicago anyway? It's the murder capital
of the midwest.(Obama wants to "pad pockets" of his buddies)Chicago
could be cleaned up(and so could the rest of american cities)by building
more jails and calling in the national guard - the police are enforcing
the laws selectively( as in the city I live -Rochester,NY)To hell with
politcal correctness and the ACLU!
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69 Air post. that is a hilarious post.
number 69
So? because it was an american town that did not want the Olympics the IOC were bias for not picking them?
somethign like that.
Is this your bid for the Gymnastics
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airspace
(really with these comments I suspect you are pulling legs with that name.
63
"not to recognize the anti-americanism and politics playing in."
UM picking a country in America is anti american? Or are you a bit Northern American centric.
(no really i do know we all call the USA America but that is just our conventional stupidity. I show my own ignorance in that direction the whole time)
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# 27 Gavrielle_LaPoste.
That was a very well written, fascinating and educational piece of Chicago history from you there. Thank you for that. I never realised the origins of the term 'red lining' and presume that your reference to the term 'the wrong side of the tracks' also stems from this?
As for your observation that "Chicagoans were not impressed with being World Cup hosts - with most bars, even sports bars around the venue showing baseball games on their televisions while FIFA was in town." ..... This is exactly why the US should never be allowed host a FIFA world Cup again. There is no genuine interest in 'real football' there except the interest of a few incorporations wanting to cash in on hosting a 'World Event' and selling TV rights to the rest of the world. The average American sports fan has no interest in the 'worlds number 1 sport' and are happy to watch second rate sports that aren't even on the world map. Calling American Football Superbowl winners 'World Champions' is an insult to the rest of the world, as it is very arrogant to a global acclaim for a domestic competition. The same applies to the so-called 'World Series' for Baseball.
Hopefully the likes of #33 Illinoisan and #43 MagicKirin will be able to confirm to me that the term 'World Series' actually derives from that fact that is mickey mouse stick and ball tournament was originally sponsored by a newspaper called 'The World', and it is not a Global competion (more of a CAN-AM event).
The fact is that Brazil and Rio will very much benefit from hosting the World Cup prior to the Olympic games. For Brazil (and most of the world) the World Cup will be even bigger than the Olympic Games, so they must have already everything in order to handle the huge volume of people who will flooding in the city come 2014. If it were the other way around, there may have been more of a problem.
Finally, # 58 powermeerkat is correct to suspect that the financial benefit that London will receive from hosting the 2012 Olympic Games will be less significant than the future revenue (and prestige) from the reconstructon of its Wembley Stadium. Even though both projects have been way over budget, Wembley will one day pay for itself many times over (especially if England win their bid to host the World Cup). Whereas London will pay dearly for the white elaphant of the 2012 Olympics for years and years to come.
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ref #84
Here is some information about the former IOC President http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Antonio_Samaranch#Criticism
Although I enjoy making fun of Chicago corruption and sports teams, it is a great city and has excelent restaurants. I've been to both Madrid and Chicago and Chicago is more of a cosmopolitan city than Madrid.
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Ref 90, Zvonko Plonko
"...confirm to me that the term 'World Series' actually derives from that fact that is mickey mouse stick and ball tournament was originally sponsored by a newspaper called 'The World', and it is not a Global competion (more of a CAN-AM event)."
The explanation you are likely to get is that our Baseball "World" Series is a global event because our teams attract the best players from the Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico, Venezuela, Mexico and Cuba by offering salaries their local teams can not compete against. Obviously, there is nothing wordly about the event, any more than claiming the Super Bowl is being watched in over 100 countries because we broadcast that event to US military bases and embassies overseas.
We use the world to advance our interests, legitimize our actions, and provide a semblance of universal consensus that more often than not is far from the truth. Conversely, politicians often use the world to deride opponents' foreign policy accomplishments or perceived foreign ploys to interfere in our internal affairs.
The outrage voiced by the far right on the Olympics issue is motivated, in part, by the need to destroy President Obama's credibility and, to a lesser extent, because the winner and runner up are a South American country and Spain. The audacity of this decision is another nail in the OIC coffin.
I have to admit that regardless of whether England wins their bid for World Cup or not...I'll be rooting for Spain...and will probably be disappointed once again! That's OK, Real Madrid and Barcelona FC are good fallback options...(my favorite team is actually a little known team from the Canary Islands called U.D. Las Palmas).
Your analysis of football enthusiasm in the USA is correct, but believe or not interest is growing, not only because of all the "illegals" living here but because many children, and women, like the game. Sadly, it will never reach the level of popularity of American football, basketball, baseball, hockey or golf.
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Could somebody in Europe explain the significance of the Lisbon Treaty? I understand it has as its centerpiece the need to streamline the decision making process, but I am not sure what this entails. Are the decisions political, economic or all of the above?
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Ref 91, Magic
Samaranch is not the only politician or executive guilty of protecting his subordinates. The investigations carried out at the behest of the USOC never proved wrongdoing on his part.
I have also visited both cities (actually, I lived 5 years in Madrid, and comparing the sophistication and tourist facilities in Madrid to those of Chicago is like comparing a Bentley to a Chevette.
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ref #92 and 94
Let agree to disagree on Chicago vs Madrid
Regarding football the reason it has not broken in the top 3 team sports in the U.S is several
1. The U.S is not very good at it
2. We hate their tie breaking system
3. The ability of flopping is important
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93. At 3:04pm on 03 Oct 2009, saintDominick wrote:
"Could somebody in Europe explain the significance of the Lisbon Treaty?"
I do wish you hadn't asked that. Have you any idea what that invitation is going to unleash?
When you have three or four evenings to spare, start here.
If you want to read up on all the links that help to make sense of it, I'd take a week's holiday, and either stock up your fridge, or make sure you've got a very good relationship with a pizza delivery place.
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#87 Why would you want to have in Chicago anyway? It's the murder capital
of the midwest.
Probably, but it is also the biggest metropolis of midwest, so it kinda makes sense. However, Gary Indiana has had the title for quite a long time, but what would u know?
#89 Fluffy, the whole point is how clear and blunt the IOC booted off Chicago first, when it had the most credentials, the venues already built, and the means to deliver. Like I said, Chicago didnt want it but to slap them in the face by eliminating them first, just because of european voters hating US is just vile.
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Obama won cool points for going there. Americans realize that we did our best but in the end anti-americanism is deeply embedded on the envious europeans. So I dont think Obama will be greatly affected by this at all. If the Republicans will choose to poke him on that, they will do so at their own peril.
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ref #92 saintDominick,
I was more referring to England's bid to host the 2018/2022 World Cup that winning the tournamant itself. As I am sure you are aware, it entails FIFA use a similar selection process to that used by the IOC for the Olymplics. I am also sure that you are also aware that Portugal and Spain are also in the running to co-host the contest with a joint bid.
As far as winning the Cup istself, this is something that England have only acheived once and I was too young to remember it, being only a few months old and oblivious to the fact. Every subsequent 4 years I have been continually dissapointed by the press building our hopes up and England's failure to win (or sometimes to even qualify). In more recent years I have become dissapointed with the Xenophobic attitude of the press and some of the players, also thier greedy lifestyles and the fact that money seems more important than National pride. As you know, this is a contest that Spain have also never won as they have also had many let downs over the years. But I lent them my support for the 2008 European Championships which they won (Spain have some great players and England didn't even qualify), so may the best team win in South Africa 2010.
P.S. I know the Canary Islands quite well, having spent time on three of them.... Very nice.
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98. At 3:29pm on 03 Oct 2009, airspace86 wrote:
"Americans realize that we did our best but in the end anti-americanism is deeply embedded on the envious europeans."
Dear me. We Europeans seem to be terribly busy organising anti-US conspiracies. Take a look at the members.
Now, you'll have to excuse me, I'm late for another anti-US conspiracy meeting. So tiresome, that's the fourth this week.
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Rio totally deserved the right to host the 2016 Games I don'think that the decision was about brand Obama one bit. He did his duty as Head of State as did all the other Heads, to be present at the ceremony. One can not ignore the geo-political reasons, and I believe that this was the main reason that Rio was given and this reason is enough for me. I'm a big Obama fan, and I am sure that deep down the Obamas both know that Rio was more deserving.
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The reason why Chicago did not get at least second or third place is due to anti-Americanism by the IOC officials, of whom most are European. I thought Europe liked us more than that, especially with the "special relationship" and all that, but our relationship is changing more than many realized.
This is not the only incident with Europeans and anti-Americanism in recent days. The release of the Lockerbie bomber for oil was a major irritant. To think that Europe thinks terrorists should get released on compassionate grounds is beyond me. Europe betrayed the USA for oil. Now, Europe has betrayed the USA for the Olympics, by discarding us first, while we were the most qualified candidate.
Mr. Mardell wrote that USA does not care as much for Europe, but I highly disagree. It seems that Europe does not care as much for USA and they don't even give us respect anymore.
Now, I do think Rio deserves the Olympics for the very reason they have never had one there before. But there is a reason why S. America has not had an Olympics and it is not money- it is due to the high amount of violence, kidnapping and murder rates. Rio has double the crime and violence rate of Chicago.
But I do give Rio the benefit of the doubt and the best of luck to them, that the Olympics comes off well. I like Rio and the Brazilian people, their love for soccer, beaches and tropical drinks. I think it is a great opportunity for them and support them.
However, the anti-Americanism has got to stop. We elect a new leader, one that is the opposite of Bush, and still, Europe and others diss us.
Europe treats us worse and worse, no matter if we have Bush, Obama or anyone else. It is 100% anti-Americanism.
Anti-Americanism is just as bad as racism and discrimination. The IOC is racist and discrimatory. Not because they picked Rio- that was fair, but because they are anti-American and dropped us last, on purpose. Everyone knows what they did. We are not blind.
But what is the best revenge? For the USA, our best revenge is to put our best foot forward and do our best in the Olympics. There is nothing sweeter than winning a gold medal, although the other medals are pretty nice, too.
I congratulate Rio. Chicago should not have been picked last, however. This will back-fire on the IOC and Olympics. By dissing the USA, you just gave us more drive and determination to do even better in the upcoming Olympics and as a whole. You just got us fired up! Go USA!!!!!
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If any kind of favouritism is to be suspected, then here is the list of countries that have hosted the Olympics from 1896 to 2016:
US 4: (St Louis 1904; Los Angeles 1832, 1984; Atlanta 1996)
Greece 3
Germany 3
Australia 3 (1 jointly)
France, UK, Sweden 2 (1 jointly)
Belgium, Brazil, Canada, China, Finland, Japan, Netherlands, South Korea, Spain, USSR: 1
Winter Olympics (began 1924)
USA: 4
Austria, France, Italy: 3
Norway, Switzerland: 2
Canada, Japan, Russia, Yugoslavia, Singapore: 1
Notice which country heads the list?
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The reason why soccer is not as big in the USA, is because we have so many other choices. Soccer athletes are incredibly talented, but all you need for soccer is a sports ball and jerseys. It is a simple and inexpensive sport.
Football, baseball and basketball, on the other hand, are all more complex and much more expensive. Most countries simply cannot afford to fund these sports.
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102. At 5:01pm on 03 Oct 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
"The reason why Chicago did not get at least second or third place is due to anti-Americanism by the IOC officials, of whom most are European. I thought Europe liked us more than that"
You mean we're not allowed to like Brasil? Or China?
I suppose that if Switzerland doesn't extradite Polanski, we will be reading that you and one or two others agree with Colonel Ghadaffi?
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Airspace , proving it by the second.
Sorry but ????? 97
I can't figure you out. Listen closely.
You yourself admit no one wanted it.
Now you complain you did not get it because they are bias.
It is in no way bias to say.
LA, Atlanta (Bomb scare ,homegrown not forn)
In my short life it has been in the uSA(because they are not united) twice and more if you count winter games.
The city doesn't have that great a transportation network. and Rio will greatly benefit from putting transport in a city so populous.
I'm with kitty that this will be an Environmental disaster.
But then I'm not a supporter of the games.
(Frankly I'd rather have the national bong championships where I'd be competing against the true Americas hero that got slammed by the straight laced squares of the USA.)
Take that and the number of tea party racists that the world has seen for the last year and think.
WHY put them in america. It is not a default setting "give to USA"
The USA is not a world Government that receives all un willed properties by default.
Just Imagine the riots here when the libyan team turns up. or the Iranian team. Can you americans forget that they are atheletes?
How many would be banned and on some no travel list?
how many want to have their finger prints taken.their Iris scanned?
How many want to host the games in a city in a country that declared war on half the world in the last 8 years.
Really I don't care but the reason that shows why the games should not go to the USA is this and it is a concept most americans seem to know NOTHING about.
SPORTSMANSHIP.
You lost the Bid. Lost LAST No where in the ranking. suck it up.
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illinoison.
guess what.
If america was not so busy helping the world fall apart and screaming " but i don't want to give up my goddies" then maybe not so many would be all for an hour of two of shouting at the americans (shall I say North americans).
But as it is there are too many wingy buts who have no concept of a world out there. they think that is for star trek.
So sorry you feel so victimised, next time the country is starting a "crusade" against half the planet it might be advisable to lock in all future sporting achievements.
As for those here that say "saddam is gone we did good"
We decimated the population of the country.
we killed their husbands we killed their kids we broke the system and allowed so many to get killed. so much to be destroyed.
then you want to claim it is better for the few that remain.
That is a bullocks argument , There are some one million widows. (but we never killed a million?)
How many would have died under Saddam in that time?
Don't forget your evil just because it's you.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#106 "The city doesn't have that great a transportation network. and Rio will greatly benefit from putting transport in a city so populous."
Chicago has a great transportation network, its actually so advanced that within one hour you can go from the most southern point of the city to the northern suburbs (Subway red line). Metra system connects all the suburbs with two downtown central train stations. Public transit (bus) is every 10min on every street of the city. At least chicago HAS a transportation network.
I keep telling you, that its annoying that it was the first one to be eliminated because there was no case against it. It was pure anti-americanism on the european vote which make up more than 50% of the voting committee.
Don't tell me that US would have had a strong security checkpoint, lest we talk about beijing that had secret service at the torch in Paris, and london.
I would have not had a problem if it was head to head Rio and Chicago and Rio wins. What bothers me was that europeans wanted to embarras us. So Brazil can celebrate their win of political correctness and anti-americanism hatred.
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Illinoisan wrote:
"Football, baseball and basketball, on the other hand, are all more complex and much more expensive. Most countries simply cannot afford to fund these sports."
That's a recommendation? Maybe that's why millions more kids throughout Asia, Europe, the Middle East, South America and Africa pay our kind of football (or even cricket).
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How has USA declared war on half the world? Because we declared war on the terrorists in Iraq and Afghanistan? That is only two countries. There are over a hundred countries in the whole world.
SO USA declaring war on terrorists (who attacked USA, first, USA did not start the fight)in two countries is the whole world?
By the way, this terrorist organization has also attacked England, Spain, and tried to attack many other countries. Yet you are on the side of the terrorists, the murderers!
That is exactly the kind of anti-Americanism I am talking about. You seem to forget that USA was attacked first. USA does not attack, but if she is provoked, then she will fight. That is what happened. So why are you not blaming the terrorists that started this fight, that killed innocent lives? Anti-Americanism. That is why.
You simply don't want to admit it. But it is plain as day.
By the way, USA has great sportmanship. You did not see us complain last Olympics, when one of our gymnasts tied with China and should have receieved a gold medal, as both deserved the gold. That was unfair. But USA did not complain, although we were just as good as the other girl.
USA did not complain when one of our gymnasts landed a vault and another girl from N. Korea who did not land her vault got third, even though she fell. Our gymnast did not even place. That was unfair. But USA did not complain, even though we at least landed it and knew we were better.
USA has some of the best sportsmanship in the world.
But when USA is clearly dissed by the mostly European IOC, their anti-Americanism is obvious.
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Those that believe the decision to hold the 2016 Summer Olympic Games in Rio de Janeiro was influenced by anti-American bias are ignoring a few facts.
1. More summer Olympic games have been held in the USA than in any other country. If there is bias, it is in our favor:
1904 St. Louis
1932 Los Angeles
1984 Los Angeles
1996 Atlanta
2. The olympic games have become big business, not only for the host country, TV networks, and sports in general, but for the OIC itself. The decision is influenced by considerations such as which city has the best sports and hospitality facilities to host the games, which city or country commits the most money to prepare for the games, and which one guarantees the best return on investment. We of all people, should understand this approach and should endorse it enthusiastically as it represents some of the most fundamental tenets of capitalism.
3. Crying foul when we don't get something, whether deservedly or not, make us look like a bunch of spoiled brats. Accept decisions with fortitude and dignity, and offer your best wishes to the winner. That's what an unbiased mature grown up is supposed to do.
Last but not least, blaming President Obama for not leaning on the OIC hard enough, or not being persuasive enough, is not only unfair it doesn't say much for who we are or what the Office of the Presidency stands for. This whole fiasco is embarrassing.
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90. At 1:17pm on 03 Oct 2009, Zvonko_Plonko wrote:
# 27 Gavrielle_LaPoste.
That was a very well written, fascinating and educational piece of Chicago history from you there. Thank you for that. I never realised the origins of the term 'red lining' and presume that your reference to the term 'the wrong side of the tracks' also stems from this?
Nope, "wrong side of the tracks" was a phrase already in existence long before. It was just the laying down of tracks to put someone on the wrong side of them when they weren't already there that was new.
As for your observation that "Chicagoans were not impressed with being World Cup hosts - with most bars, even sports bars around the venue showing baseball games on their televisions while FIFA was in town." ..... This is exactly why the US should never be allowed host a FIFA world Cup again.
I agree, but not for the reasons you stated, or the rude and insulting way you said them.
Soccer is a game for children and girls in this country. American football is a gladiatorial sport. I don't want FIFA here because I don't want our young men made effeminate by foreign influences that degrade the true spirit of sportsmanship and don't inculcate an acceptance of pain, suffering, and extreme manliness.(By the way, my tongue is so firmly in my cheek at the moment it might need to be surgically removed.)
The fact is America doesn't need FIFA, but apparently FIFA wants America.
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Illinoisan, before you fall off your high horse you should remove your rose coloured glasses.
So what you and Airspace86 believe it that the only reason Chicago was not chosen to host the Olympics is because the IOC is anti-american and racist? It has nothing to do with anything else like a proper bid. And, if another US city decides they want to host another event, it should be offered to them first because anything less would be anti-american and racist. How absurd.
The world is a big place folks.
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112. At 6:23pm on 03 Oct 2009, saintDominick
FINALLY, a reasonable post from an American.
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108. At 6:10pm on 03 Oct 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
"But how can you defend Polanski, a man who admittedly drugged and had sex with a child? That is absolutely disgusting."
Read my post again and you will see I wrote nothing that could possibly lead to that suggestion. Extradition may be refused for all sorts of legal reasons, and neither you nor I know yet what the result of the legal process in Switzerland will be.
108. At 6:10pm on 03 Oct 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
"But how can you defend Polanski, a man who admittedly drugged and had sex with a child? That is absolutely disgusting."
Read my post again and you will see I wrote nothing that could possibly lead to that suggestion. Extradition may be refused for all sorts of legal reasons, and neither you nor I know yet what the result of the legal process in Switzerland will be.
So I expect, but do not anticipate, an apology for misrepresenting me.
I am thoroughly fed up with the way some people here constantly try to denigrate others' opinions, or their statements or arguments, by attributing falsehoods of their own devising to them. And not only that, but this arrogant and continuing assumption that whenever the USA yells 'Jump' the rest of the world is not supposed to ask 'Why?"
If you and others really want to know why the USA as a whole has become less and less liked and trusted in many parts of the world, your own postings illustrate it admirably.
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113. At 6:24pm on 03 Oct 2009, Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:
" I don't want our young men made effeminate by foreign influences that degrade the true spirit of sportsmanship and don't inculcate an acceptance of pain, suffering, and extreme manliness."
I should think not indeed. Let them carry on playing rounders and netball, and send them off to wars as soon as they grow up.
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114. At 6:37pm on 03 Oct 2009, Over_40_Crowd wrote:
"So what you and Airspace86 believe it that the only reason Chicago was not chosen to host the Olympics is because the IOC is anti-american and racist?"
It was in a post of mine that got referred, and I didn't bother, but I'll pose a question tp those who claim that afresh.
"Would they be claiming the IOC was racist had Chicago won, and Brasil (a very racially diverse country) and Pele, who, being a footballer, suggests they are not aware is black, thereby been 'disrespected'?"
Answers on a postcard while I do not hold my breath awaiting their arrival.
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I can't imagine why anyone in America cares. Like all other international endeavors, the Olympics is thoroughly corrupt, a fraud, a crime especially against those whose taxes have to pay for decades for the facitilies that will enrich a handful during a two week event. The referees are corrupt and politically biased and make rulings based on their preferences or who paid them off, many teams are in effect made up of professionals, some countries pass of men as women by physically altering them, and many of the atheletes take illegal drugs to enhance their performance at unfair advantage over those who don't. In some sports, the winner will be determined by who has a chemist that can devise a performance enhancing drug that the officials can't detect yet. While the egos of Mayor Daley, his friends and corrupt political machine, and President Obama may have suffered a blow, the bank accounts of Illinois taxpayers have won a triumph. I don't know why America even bothers to participate in such a corrupt exhibition anymore.
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117. At 6:56pm on 03 Oct 2009, squirrellist wrote:
I should think not indeed. Let them carry on playing rounders and netball, and send them off to wars as soon as they grow up.
You ignored the bit where I said the above was said in jest. Or did I accidentally hit too close to the mark?
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120. At 7:33pm on 03 Oct 2009, Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:
"You ignored the bit where I said the above was said in jest."
Did I?
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I don't understand where this idea that we Illini (not Illinoisan, as one calls himself, he must be from Indiana or Wisconsin. They always get it wrong) and Chicagoans somehow feel dissed or hated upon by the IOC. We are relieved and grateful. Nobody here wanted this. No one believed His Majesties claims that the tax-payers wouldn't feel the pinch. No one wanted the increased traffic in an already saturated city. When His Majesty squeezed every inch of tax out of the poor Chicagoans, he'd run to Springfield making the rest of the State pay for yet another great scheme that will only benefit Daley and his cronies.
Obama, as much as I'd like to see it as such, wasn't even "dissed". This, as most IOC rulings, was already a done deal. The voting was a mere formality. The Big-O Twins couldn't have done anything about it. the only ones here feeling "dissed" or "discriminated against" are the Obamanacs and Ophraphiles. How dare anyone say no to their annointed ones!
The ratings for the Olympics in this country are in the tank, and have been for quit a while. The "anti-american" IOC let basketball in hoping to get americans back into it. It hasn't worked. Nobody here cares. Nobody here wants it. We are not upset, we aren't even offended, in any way. We, in fact, love IOC for letting His majesty get a chance to go to Copenhagen just so we can watch him LOSE on international TV. HAHAHAHA! Gotta love it. Ah the look on Daley's face. It's like the feeling Londoners had when they watch Parisians loose their bid. Priceless!
The question still remains. Why would Obama subject himself yet another NO!(a no that was forthcoming whether he went to Denmark or not) while McChrystal, in desperate need of a decision on Afganistan, has to play Airliner-tag with him around around Europe? This shows a clear lacking of leadership and sense of priority in Obama. Obvioulsy Daley is more important to Obama than our soldiers in Afghanistan. That's the REAL "diss and discrimination" here.
GO BEARS! GO HAWKS!
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105, Squirrel, we actually don't want Polanski; we just want his Swiss
bank account. And, if anybody on this blog happens to know the number of
said bank account, we can make a private arrangement to facilitate matters
without involving Uncle Sam, who use to be my rich uncle, but who is
increasingly resembling the bum who hangs out at an intersection near
me and who keeps trying to hit me up for money.
(This shows just how cold-hearted I am. I'd rather give money to the
bum on the corner than to my uncle who claims to be a blood relation.)
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121:
I was never interested in soccer, basketball or netball (not tall enough) baseball or rounders (though see next sentence) at school. I was a sprinter. When people don't get you're joking, you have to be.
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I think it's great that Rio gets to host an Olympics, and I sincerely hope they are able to pull it off well.
It's a little unfair of squirrelist to criticise powermeerkat in comment 12. He clearly went out of his way to write that he wants the Rio Games to be successful. What he pointed out about that city's corruption and crime are facts, and a legitimate concern. Hopefully, the city will be reformed in time. As for AndyPlowright and looking down on South America: I agree that there should be more emphasis in international media on Rio's win, but this is a blog about the *United States*. It wouldn't make sense or be on topic if the post were about Rio de Janeiro.
But what I really wanted to point out/ask: did anybody else notice that all of a sudden South America has become a continent to Latin Americans? After decades of getting angry at the term 'America' being used as synonymous with the USA (as in this blog, incidentally), and insisting that there is a single continent called America stretching from Canada to Patagonia (there are two clearly defined large landmasses resting largely on two separate tectonic plates), now President da Silva, and to some extent Brazilians and South Americans, makes his argument for Brazil hosting the 2016 Games on the basis that the continent of South America (Latin America wouldn't work, as Mexico has had a Games) has never been host.
A tad hypocritical if this doesn't lead (finally) to Latin American recognition that the Americas have two continents.
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124. At 7:50pm on 03 Oct 2009, squirrellist wrote:
121:
I was never interested in soccer, basketball or netball (not tall enough) baseball or rounders (though see next sentence) at school. I was a sprinter. When people don't get you're joking, you have to be.
Neither was I, I swam. But I do love a nice tight end.
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Illini;
"No one believed His Majesties claims that the tax-payers wouldn't feel the pinch."
That's the same lie promoters tell taxpayers for every event, every Olympics, every world's fair. It wouldn't surprise me if they said it back in the days of Sparta and Athens in ancient Greece.
The worst curse ever visited on New York City was the 1964 World's Fair promoted by otherwise do gooder Robert Moses. Reconstructon of the highway system alone in preparation for it tied up traffic for years.
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guns -
Perhaps you wouldn't be cold-hearted if you came back to the warmth for some tea and chocolate cookies. Is there a chasm too wide to pass the cups across?
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#119. MarcusAureliusII: "many teams are in effect made up of professionals"
Something that the United States has done - remember "the dream team"?
"the bank accounts of Illinois taxpayers have won a triumph."
Presuming of course that they were to be taxed in order to pay for the production. Perhaps all host cities should take note of the Los Angeles Olympics in 1984 which did not use taxpayer funds. At the time it was thought to be "commercial" but nevertheless they were a success and Los Angeles was (relatively) traffic free and peaceful, more so than ordinarily.
"I don't know why America even bothers to participate in such a corrupt exhibition anymore."
Pride, prestige and patriotism. Corrupt or not, it puts the United States centre stage for a couple of weeks and demonstrates to the world just how good her athletes are. The pity is that there is now a "keeping up with the Joneses" attitude, each city wanting to out-do the previous host country, especially with the Opening and Closing ceremonies. Today, television broadcasters want to see spectacle whereas years ago, even in 1948 and of course, long before, few people had television, let alone 52" HDTV flat screens. Just like football of both varieties, commerce has come into the picture. As President Coolidge remarked, "the business of America is business" - and that has extended to sport at all levels.
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#118. squirrellist: "and Brasil . . ."
Out of curiosity, is that the newly fashionable way to spell Brazil? I know how much the British resent the 'z' in American spelling, but using Portuguese is too much! No comment on the other, three letter word:)
With regard to the previous 'r' word mentioned, could that be the same as the more popular euphemism "ethnicity"?
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125. At 8:02pm on 03 Oct 2009, AnonymousCalifornian wrote:
"did anybody else notice that all of a sudden South America has become a continent to Latin Americans? "
Yes. It's not that sudden. The slow separation of the two political tectonic plates gas been going on for quite a few years now. It's just speeded up a bit the last 3 or 4.
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I have lived in Illinois my entire life. Illinois residents are referred to as Illini and as Illinoisans.
After reading your post, I can tell you are the one from Indiana or Wisconsin, because you do not know Illinois very well or its people.
Rio's advantages: beautiful beaches, friendly people with tropical drinks, never held an Olympics before in the country
Rio's disadvantages: lack of security and safety, high rate of murder, crime, and kidnappings, lack of lodging for athletes and spectators, lack of funding
Chicago's advantages: beautiful lake scene, friendly people with diverse drinks, never held an Olympics before in our city, high level of security and safety rating, compatible lodging for athletes and spectators, good transporation system, much funding pledged by private sponsors
Chicago's disadvantages: high murder level in bad parts of town, although very low murder level in good parts of town where Olympics would have been held, our murder/crime level is half that of Rio (so our crime rate is actually an advantage compared to Rio's), lake not as beautiful as ocean, although ocean town Rio is much more dangerous
The IOC clearly doesn't care about the athletes' safety and security.
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la post the reason fifa wants america is because they want to be inclusive and accepting.
sorry they should instead tell america to go to hell.
illinoisian are you as thick headed as you pretend?
AGAIN> YOU DON"T WANT IT
SO >WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING.
Who puts on a party at a venue that doesn't want them there.
If they can help it.
Again Illinoying WHY is it racist.
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"Europe betrayed the USA for oil."
illinoyying.
Really europe betrayed the USA.
well the USA is still betraying the world so a little come back on that should be expected.
America has already contributed to the Global warming in a way no ne else gets near.
and as a result of all that energy did they make themselves self sufficient?
NO they have started wars instead. wars that endanger Europe more than america.
Britain entered into a war with america but when they captured Baghdad (coalition) they were told the american way of securing the place was all they would get because they president thought his mid term elections were more important than saving the people of Bahgdad or the soldier of their own armies.
All the while GW buddies were making .. Nothing because they screwed up but they did fleece the american tax payer.
So really if you want to accuse others of starting wars over oil then leave america and denounce it , then start complaining
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I can see the EU with the Lisbon Treaty, soon to be the worlds most formidable force ever seen, with it's deadly secret weapon totally unstoppable...We are going to bore to death,all adversaries...
"Got" the idea from MA2...
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What surprised me was how quickly the US was eliminated
I thought the final two would be Rio and Chicago
I think there was some bribery done of the judges to make Obama look bad...
but in the end I think Rio deserved the Olympics and Lula da Silva is an interesting personality
At the G20 in 2009 Lula blamed the international financial crisis on the "white and blue-eyed". Quoted at saying “This was a crisis that was fostered and boosted by the irrational behaviour of people who were white and blue-eyed, who before the crisis they looked like they knew everything about economics, but now have demonstrated they know nothing about economics,” he said, mocking the “gods of wisdom” who had had to be bailed out. “The part of humanity that is responsible should be the part that pays for the crisis,” [21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luiz_In%C3%A1cio_Lula_da_Silva#Controversies
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Any country that is proud of the Olympics should want their athletes to be sent to a country that will have high security and safety. China and the USA may have issues, but at least they had good security. You know London has great security, too. But Brazil? I do not see why so many of you posters on here seem to disregard this fact.
Sure, Rio is beautiful. But it is also incredibly dangerous.
Anyone who wonders why South America has never had an Olympics before just has to look at one major factor: security.
Rio is sentimental, but it is the least safe and secure.
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illinoying
you can crap on about how chicago was the best bid but they didn't even get in the running.
Nothing too do with Obama.
It was chicago. as many have said a corrupt city. You keep going on about the greatest city for the games but have yet to provide any example reasoning or anything other than you anger that Chicago was turned down and therefore this was racist
I suspect Brasil or Rio may have a diverse population that is not white european.
On to your blatent ignorance.
" No one said that Europe is not supposed to like other countries"
Europe is not a country. sorry but MArcus is wrong if he told you that.
" I congratulate Rio. Chicago should not have been picked last, however. This will back-fire on the IOC and Olympics. By dissing the USA, you just gave us more drive and determination to do even better in the upcoming Olympics and as a whole. You just got us fired up! Go USA!!!!!"
yes keep cheering yourself because no one else will.
Dissing the USA will continue until you all stop being so arrogant.Your congratulations does not look at all genuine.
Air head same to you.
your transport in Chicago is just one.
Like I say most people do not want another olympics where boycots and off field racism are likely to be an issue.
A county that has spent the last 8 years making sure no one wants to visit them by introducing biometric data for passport holders wishing to enter.
Many of the Fans could not get to the USA legally.
And St Dom
" 3. Crying foul when we don't get something, whether deservedly or not, make us look like a bunch of spoiled brats. Accept decisions with fortitude and dignity, and offer your best wishes to the winner. That's what an unbiased mature grown up is supposed to do."
See illinoying airspace, this gezza seems to understand what sportsmanship is about.
A feature that has been greatly missed by the world when dealing with america.
As for anti americanism. I'm american and a self hating yank at that.
If americans can be as anti america as me just imagine how others might see it.
Squirrellist says it right you cause the people to hate america. Keep it up.
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119 posts before someone got to the real issue.
_________
12. Marbles
Obama had to support the bid. It is his home town. If he had ducked out, it would have killed any chance of the bid succeeding.
As for corruption, good heavens, corruption and the IOC go together like sewage and methane. Rio violent and corrupt? No problem. The IOC will feel right at home.
__________
To everybody who says that the taxpayers of Chicago and Illinois are the real winners: Amen!
Some of you never even knew Mayor Jean Drapeau:
"The Olympics can no more run a deficit than a man can have a baby."
Yessiree, lasting infrastructure: The abandoned mausoleum known as the big "Owe". The abandoned Velodrome (now basically a terrarium), the vastly underused aquatic facilities...
Another way to spell "infrastructure legacy" is "W-H-I-T-E E-L-E-P-H-A-N-T".
Why pick a city with good existing infrastructure? The bigger the construction bill, the bigger the kick-backs.
__________
Of course it is time for Brazil to have a chance. Why not? Good for them. Squirrel at 103 makes the right point.
The one point not raised so far in this string is that Rio is well placed for TV coverage. It is late enough for good prime time coverage in North America, and early enough not entirely to miss the end of the viewing day in Europe.
_______
Finally to Marcus' point at 119.
It is so long past time to shut down the whole Olympic circus. What a farce.
An entity steeped in fascism and corruption, accountable to nobody, which demands and receives outrageous preferential treatment as quasi-governmental body (special trade-mark provisions used to terrorize anyone who names a Greek restaurant "the Olympic"; special collusion and use of state authorities to protect private sector licensing deals by running off unapproved advertisers; huge policing and security costs for which the IOC pays nothing to the host state; use of governmental agencies to sweep the homeless out of town or under the carpet for the duration, the gender bias against women, the envious snuggling up to authoritarian regimes... on and on, and on, before you even get anywhere near the perennially suspect results in the "judging" events, the drug abuse, the lack of transparency). Who are the beneficiaries of all these licensing fees? Under what jurisdiction do their property rights originate? What is the basis of their entitlement?
If a relative handful of major countries pulled out of the Olympics, and set up an accountable international sports governing body, governed by transparent rules, this corrupt farce would collapse fairly quickly. The sooner the IOC bastion of fascism goes belly up, the better.
Long, long past overdue.
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"The worst curse ever visited on New York City was the 1964 World's Fair"
So I take it you never travelled to your northern neighbour.
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China makes up the same percentage of pollution as USA, so if you accuse us, you must accuse China of the same issue. You conveniently left that part out.
Name-calling is childish and bully-like. Resorting to that level shows your intelligence level.
If you want to blame the USA, you have to blame your own prime minister, Tony Blair, for getting involved. He could have said no to George Bush. You can't say that Britain did not have a decision, because everyone has a decision. Blair made his choice, as did Britain.
It is interesting how you say that USA started the war. How did we start the war when we were attacked first? I can only imagine how Israel feels. Everyone blames Israel and the USA for their problems, as if they never had a choice of how to run their country. Your country has a choice. You always have a choice. Don't try to blame everything on us! I admit we have made mistakes, but if the USA hadn't joined in WW II, we may all very well be speaking German now and living as indentured slaves. Did USA start that war? Of course not.
The people you should really be against are the terrorist that have murdered innocent people, all around the world. The Islamic terrorists want to murder everyone who is not Islamic. But you are blind to the terrorists' charms. Instead, you are aligning yourself with them. Truly sad.
I am tired of hearing people defend terrorists and murderers.
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The world is falling apart and the americans
" he reason why soccer is not as big in the USA, is because we have so many other choices. Soccer athletes are incredibly talented, but all you need for soccer is a sports ball and jerseys. It is a simple and inexpensive sport."
can't understand why the world could think very low of america.
How about this Illinoy. How about having fun at a game where you don't have to make up the rules with other people. Why should the world Love america because they choose to ignore that most of their "culture" is there to sell merchandise.
So you can have a cultural identity protected by a Unesco charter.
America will have the right to drive trucks that get 12 MPG, because it is their culture.
They get to play a nancy version of rugby and make a game that costs the same as football for the rest of the world into a thousand dollar waste of resources.with it's own rules of micro munt management.( ie the game is hardly a game when they stop to get advice from some gezza not on the field all the time. Ok at half time but all the time?
Because it is the american way.Make it exclusive, then complain your local school can't afford the membership. Hell america has spent more on Ball parks than on National health.
OH BTW the cost of treatment of anyone getting injured in the olympics was probably considered. The cost of travel insurance to Brasil is wy cheaper than Americaa.
litterally there are so many reasons not to hold it in the states. But if you are too busy trying to raise a star spangled banner you may miss whats happening.
Waste that is.
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#19
Obama is getting a fearful kicking in the US from people too gutless to ever speak out about the previous occupant of the White House. It is ludicrous that they will curse Obama over an issue like healthcare yet the voices were silent when it came to throwing troops into combat in two different countries.
#64.
Chicago is home to 107 corporate headquarters (second only to New York), two of the top ten universities of the world, stunning architecture, and city's GDP of $460 billion. Chicago is a winner without olympics, so please enough of talking nonsense! No city is immune to corruption and crime.
-------------
Agree with all that.
For those critical of the BBC journalists, why be on a BBC website? It's not like it's being funded by anyone but the licence fee payers here anyway.
For those critical of what Obama has/has not acheived in 8 months, it's not like he works on an assembly line and actually produces tangible "stuff". Then again, what has Bush II produced in 8 years? Wish the same yardstick was used for him!
The King of Spain, President Lula of Brasil, ex head of the IOC were present...the same people critical of Obama for being there would have been critical of him for not being there.
Some of these sad, all knowing, griping people need to chill a little...
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Tend to agree the Olympic choice will have no bearing on how Pres Obama's ratings go.
The USA is so big that even a great city like Chicago and a proud State like Illinois are just 1 among many and most Americans will be totally indifferent to whole thing.
That said, Rio is a disaster of a choice!
Brazil is a cesspit of crime, drug-gangs, mayhem and murder on a truly dangerous scale and Rio is at the core of that criminality as anyone (I have several times) who has driven out of their centrally located hotel in any direction for 30 minutes will surely confirm.
Whilst the terrible tragedy of De Menezes incident on the London Tube attracted all sorts of ridiculously over-the-top criticism it seems the Olympic Committee are unaware of the hundreds of similar incidents in Rio every year! Across Brazil the murder rate in the shanty towns is the equivalent of a Falklands Campaign every month. How the Olympic organisers intend to protect the thousands of Athletes, Journalists and Spectators in 2016 from this violence will be an ongoing issue from the moment the decision to pick Rio was announced.
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Lula's statement about blaming white people with blue eyes for the world's problems is clearly racist.
Now, I could be racist and blame all our problems on one race: Middle-Eastern Islamists, for attacking us and turning our world upside-down. Anyone who thinks that the USA has not suffered from these terrorists attacks does not understand the USA. When you send your sons and daughters to war, it must be the only option.
But unlike Lula, I do not blame all the Islamists. I know that there are some who are not terrorists. I do blame the Islamists that hide terrorists. They are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves, as they are helping murderers.
The question is: how can you tell apart an Islamic terrorist from an Islamic person, who is not a terrorist? You cannot, which is why, all Islamic people are suspicious to me. Is that racist or is it just street smarts?
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If you don't like USA, then it's time to move to another country.
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ref #141
thank you it has been lonely for a few of us having to take broadside from the terrorist appeasers on this blog
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There were some new people in charge of the US committee attempting to bring the Olympics to Chicago..
and how sadly American this is:
"Since the end of the Beijing Olympics, most of the top positions at the U.S.O.C. have changed hands. Last October, Larry Probst, the chairman of the video-game publisher Electronic Arts, replaced Peter Ueberroth as the committee’s chairman. In March, Probst and the board removed the chief executive, Jim Scherr, and appointed a board member, Stephanie A. Streeter, in his place.The executives in charge of sport performance, marketing and human resources were also replaced."
"The turnover angered many leaders of the national governing bodies of Olympic sports, who chafed at the corporate backgrounds of Probst and Streeter and their lack of Olympic experience. The relationship further soured when it was revealed that the board had approved an annual salary of $560,000 for Streeter — a 30 percent increase over Scherr’s — months after 54 employees were laid off."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/04/sports/04usoc.html
So corporate leaders were given positions in an area where they had no expertise..
got higher salaries for themselves...
fired employees and
screwed up...
Capitalism... American style
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Fluffytale, you focus only on USA's negative aspects, but yet you cannot think of a single positive thing to say about USA.
That shows the type of person you are- with an agenda and a one-track mind.
There are lots of negative things one can say about any country. But to leave out the positive aspects is to not give a balanced analysis.
Perhaps you need to do more research on USA, before speaking so negatively. There are many, many great things about USA. Freedom being number one. It is not perfect, but we have more freedom here than most other countries.
Freedom is worth more than riches or gold. I love the USA, because of our freedom. Again, our system is not even close to perfect. But our freedom is the best value of USA.
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141
"China makes up the same percentage of pollution as USA, so if you accuse us, you must accuse China of the same issue. You conveniently left that part out."
Illinoying childish is coming to a debate with adults and trying to pull the wool over with your lies.
China has half of the world living in it.
China is now contributing as much as america but america has been contributing that much for much longer.
I left out no convenient part you are though.
How dishonest you are.
" Name-calling is childish and bully-like. Resorting to that level shows your intelligence level."
Not as much as your intelligence is showing, but whatever Einstein.
Oh the names. Lets see . Not sorry, you are being annoying.
As for tony I already called him a few names. But did you ever stop to think that without the UK america would have been in more deep do do.
that Tony may have thought that he could help direct the simpletons in the white house at the time?
that without a stearing hand it would get even worse?
But sure most were against the war in the UK (except that simpleton religious bias tony).
You can only know how Israel feels.
What about the bombs the IRA put in Harrods. Or brigton, or canery warf, or under the bandstand where the old veterans were playing.
Britain was attacked by american funded Irish for years. so don't try excusing america and Israel on that score.
and don't try to bring WW2 into this NO ONE has yet mentioned it you american sycophant . Yes you would be speaking German right now. And yes america did help start it by staying so bloody quiet and appeasing to the germans for so long. they funded the germans and built their good to keep the nazi tank rolling. so in a very indirect way america can take a lot of blame. If they had helped earlier the nazi "final solution" would not have had time to be enacted.
"The Islamic terrorists want to murder everyone who is not Islamic. But you are blind to the terrorists' charms. Instead, you are aligning yourself with them. Truly sad."
truely sad is your racist rubbish being in print.
Islamic are the only terrorists then Eta is a muslim group then.
The IRA, INLA were muslims then eh?
Well I say you are supporting terrorists.
you and your sort have done more to promote hatred of the USA than any other.
PS CALLING PEOPLE A TERRORIST SYMPATHISER IS PROBABLY MORE OFFENSIVE THAT CALLING THEM ANNOYING.
YOU CHILD
Britain did not make that choice but the USA did. poll after poll said "attack" not so in the UK.
As for that starting when attacked first.
Excuse me what history do you read.
Last I saw some terrorists attacked the USA and america invaded two nations a s a result.
Afganistan did not gear up to war . they did not start the war AMerica did.
after being attacked by terrorists( not to get into it because I will tell you the UK never bombed dublin soon enough) america entered nto the war and all in sympathy to your great loss went along and tried to help. But then you guys wanted another war and then you wanted to shout at the Iranians .
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"I am tired of hearing people defend terrorists and murderers."
And I am tired of being called a terrorist by people that wouldn't understand terrorism is also having a 2000 lb bomb dropped from a F16 as well as a rubbish rocket.
I am also sick of being called a murderer by someone that forgets that I have condemned ALL KILLING not just the killing of my people.
You should stop defending your GW bush and Dick and Donny rumfellow.
There are people that would kill all Islamic people. then complain that a few hate you in return.
That is racism.
Live with it.
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#146 illinoisan
From my point of view...well...I don't trust Republican men..but men in particular are a problem.
The dollar is going down...
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aTvvhL9Jq9aU
"The dollar has dropped 14 percent against a basket of seven currencies since early March. "
and it does not look good..
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601039&sid=aCGCQtq7jyiE
"Chronic U.S. trade deficits have led to the accumulation of vast stores of dollars in foreign bank accounts. "
The US is beholden to other nations to help it..meanwhile so many Americans keep sneering at other nations.
They will tire of us and our poor manners..and pull the economic rug from under us. The Olympics is the least of our concerns..but also perhaps an indicator of how others feel about America..
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146 No it is racist.
" When you send your sons and daughters to war, it must be the only option."
How was there no other option.
I will tell you that calling others terrorist appeasers is not OK calling them murderers supporters is not OK either.
but it is childish.
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#147
Almost all Americans are unable to move out of America. Most are in debt and do not have the job skills to leave.
Americans like to think there is freedom...when there is not. People can't get out.
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ref #113 Gavrielle_LaPoste
Sorry that my remark came accross to you as rude and insulting. But I also find it insulting when institutions such as the NFL and NBA self appoint themsleves as world bodies and give their domestic champions the false accolade of world champions. It smacks of arrogance and nationalism.
Just just like you, I chose to respond with comments that I consider truthful, but are perhaps on the sharp end of humour. Like your comments, mine are intended partly in jest, but also I see nothing wrong with hitting the odd nerve or two in such forums.
BTW, if you don't want your young men made effeminate by foreign influences that degrade the true spirit of sportsmanship, then perhaps they should try Rugby rather than American football... as this is a true gladiatorial sport where players have to compete for an entire game with only a 15 minute half time pause, rather than come on for a few seconds offensive or defensive play and then go back to catch their breath whilst the other half of the team do their bit. Also Rugby is a true international sport, being played competively in all continents and it has a very high level of sportsmanship and honour. Plus there is no need to hide behind kevlar armour and crash helmets... all the better for 'blooding your yound men with real pain, suffering, and extreme manliness, withou the luxury of all that comfy padding.
Once again thanks for the history lesson, which I found very intersting and it has inspired me to read up more on this matter. Also thanks for your tongue in cheek comments and please keep them coming.
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I'm opting out here. This part of the world has gone mad:
"IOC bastion of fascism"
?
"I think there was some bribery done of the judges to make Obama look bad..."
Likewise, !?
"I know how much the British resent the 'z' in American spelling, but using Portuguese is too much!"
What language do they speak in Bras[z]il?
"how can you tell apart an Islamic terrorist from an Islamic person, who is not a terrorist? You cannot, which is why, all Islamic people are suspicious to me. Is that racist or is it just street smarts?"
It's racist.
"Brazil is a cesspit of crime, drug-gangs, mayhem and murder on a truly dangerous scale and Rio is at the core of that criminality"
Insanity.
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alanskilcole yes it is frustrating that they all kept quiet for the last 8 years of criminal behaviour in the white house. They also tried their best to stifle debate (look at the grilling cindy Sheenan got)
144 that shooting in london was ONE.
do you have any Ideaq how many are killed every year in the states by cops?
did you see the execution at the BArt station?
at least in Rio most of the deaths are by criminals not the local cops(well unless you are a street kid I bet)
Just give it up the only thing you guys do is show what bad portsmanship the USA has. an example noone would want to show their kids.
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146, Illinoisan.
"Now, I could be racist and blame all our problems on one race: Middle-Eastern Islamists, for attacking us and turning our world upside-down. Anyone who thinks that the USA has not suffered from these terrorists attacks does not understand the USA. When you send your sons and daughters to war, it must be the only option."
You are one naive guy. Have you ever asked yourself why we are the object of terrorism? Or do you think the Arabs are just gangs trying to get street cred? Have you ever tried to find out why they hate us? If you do a little investigating you may achieve a more rational view of the situation.
As for the vast population of the Middle East. They are working stiffs like us. All they want is a roof over their heads, food on the table, and education for their children. They are not freaks of nature because their skin is darker than ours and their religion is not Christianity. And, by the way, most of them are not even observant Moslems.
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150. At 10:08pm on 03 Oct 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
"It is not perfect, but we have more freedom here than most other countries."
So you were in favour of Bush's Phone Tapping Program, then? It monitored the phone calls and e-mails of people in the United States. Doesn't sound like freedom to me.
Have you ever travelled outside the US? You might be surprised just how much freedom MOST countries have. At least you recognize that your country is not perfect. That is step 1 in the 12 Step program.
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ref #156
, Zvonko_Plonko wrote:
ref #113 Gavrielle_LaPoste
Sorry that my remark came accross to you as rude and insulting. But I also find it insulting when institutions such as the NFL and NBA self appoint themsleves as world bodies and give their domestic champions the false accolade of world champions. It smacks of arrogance and nationalism.
I would say Basketball is second to football as an international sport.
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#147. Illinoisan: "If you don't like USA, then it's time to move to another country."
"Love It or Leave It" - such a Sixties idea! No, stay and make the changes. In any case, what country simply accepts citizens of another simply because they want to move? By the same tokenn no-one can move to the USA on a whim.
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ref #150 Illinoisan
"Freedom is worth more than riches or gold. I love the USA, because of our freedom. Again, our system is not even close to perfect. But our freedom is the best value of USA."
Good God, you really are the most gullable person that I have ever met.
Don't forget that the war against Iraq was originally under the protence of finding Weapons of Mass Destruction. Weapons that Hans Blick had alread stated that he could find no evideence of... After he couldn't find any Bush and his sponsers changed tact to say they were promoting 'Freedom' and rid the country of a dictator, all the time whilst supporting a dictator (and distributor of WOMD to North Korea). Also don't forget that Hussain was put in power and endorsed by the US and UK from the very beginning (as you accuse Europe now, it was then and alway has been a race for oil between the world powers).
You are so gullable.... Oh and I can speak from personal experience about American 'Freedom' too. I took an assignemnt to work there for 3 years and was wrestled to the ground by staff for taking one step over a painted yellow line outside a bar terrace in Seattle. I soon moved back to Europe.... There is true freedom here, not just the USSR style propoganda that is forced down your throats from school. As bethpa said, if you could only afford to travel to Europe and had the credentials to live here, you wouild be able to witness much greater freedom than that that you are TOLD you have.... there again I wouldn't want the likes of you here.
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I don't care about color of skin. If I did, I wouldn't have voted for Obama.
My problem is not with skin color. My problem is with the Islamic terrorists, who hide amongst the Islamic people, who are not terrorists.
You don't know who is a terrorist and who is not.
Just look at Zazi. His neighbors had no idea of what he was planning to do. Just look at that guy from Jordan. He baby-sat for American children, then planned on blowing people up. Just look at that guy in Illinois. He converted to Islam in prison and stated that his reason for blowing up the federal building was for Islam. Those are his words, not mine. All of these people went to the Middle East and trained with the terrorists. All of these people studied Islam. Maybe a radical version of Islam, but it is still called Islam.
The bombers in London, Madrid, the ones that wanted to bomb Toronto, all of these people practiced the Islam faith.
How can you tell which ones are the radical fanatics and which ones are simply normal people, who do not have anything to do with it?
You cannot tell, unless they speak out, such as the high school girl that had to have a court case in order to be separated from her family, as her family threatened to kill her if she did not convert to Islam. The girl was a self-proclaimed Christian, which she said she believed in. But she was so scared of her family that she refused to go back. That really says something.
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Some of the posters on here won't give USA a chance. But we are a good country. I know this, by the freedoms we have, by our parades which do not feature weapons, by all of the countries we have helped over the years defend their democracy from others. The USA is a good country. We have a lot of heart and a lot of love.
I wish Rio congratulations and the best of luck. I hope that their country is made stronger and more secure by this Olympics, that the athletes are housed and treated well, with safe accomodations for all.
The IOC's decision was hurtful to put us last, yet Chicago has been through worse. The Blago incident was pretty bad. I can't say I like Quinn too much. It just wasn't meant to be for us.
But we are a good city and a good state. We will band together and bond over our common grounds. One good thing about the USA, we can always turn the negative into positive somehow. We help each other out. We help our allies out. The USA has nothing but love for all.
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I don't understand why the US can't be happy for Brazil. It's simple: this would have been our 5th time hosting; and this is the first, not just for the country, but for the continent! Personally, I feel the way the president flew over to make his persuasion came across as presumptuous and arrogant. It was another reflection of the "American Entitlement" that has the rest of the world, yet again, rolling their eyes.
As for the chatter between liberals and conservatives ("haha, he lost it!"/ "conservatives hate America!"), I think they're being equally dramatic. Are the conservatives placing partisan blame? Probably. Would the Democrats have done the same had this been Bush? Probably. I think that, yes, this in someway shows the limits of the "Obama touch" which so many believers regard as flawless. But I think it's also exaggerating to say this speaks to his abilities to run a country. I think it's also exaggerating to say that conservative pundits making the point that "Brand Obama" isn't as powerful as some would believe, is equal to them "hating America". Politics as usual.
In close, viva Rio 2016!
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#138 "Like I say most people do not want another olympics where boycots and off field racism are likely to be an issue.
A county that has spent the last 8 years making sure no one wants to visit them by introducing biometric data for passport holders wishing to enter.
Many of the Fans could not get to the USA legally."
What off field racism? Obama, Oprah, Michael Jordan, and Bernie Mac all made the fortune in Chicago.
Biometric data for passport is the biggest requirement Eastern EUropeans face to travel to Europe. Just ask Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bosnia etc etc Thats a security issue that all countries are moving toward to.
And its not about sportsmanship! Seriously, how many teams dispute totally biased decisions? Its not about sucking it up, how can you suck it up when you were bluntly treated unfair.
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158. Squirrel.
A fair case can be made that the history of the IOC shows it to be just about the opposite of everything for which the Olympic ideals stand.
While extolling the virtues of athletic competition as a way of bringing peoples together, the IOC relies upon and plays up the national chauvinism so beloved of advertisers and authoritarian governments alike. The Winter Olympics are a bit less offensive than the Summer Olympics in that regard, (greater relative influence of the Scandinavians, perhaps?), but not by very much.
Watch Leni Riefenstahl's extraordinary and mesmerizing film "Olympia". Replay the Beijing (or, to be fair, almost any other) Olympic opening ceremonies with the volume on mute. Think about how the games are awarded. Think about the naked expression of nationalism, and the political statement that is intended by the host country. Then tell me that the IOC isn't steeped in fascism.
I love sport, and I believe in international competition. I admire athletic excellence, and prize good sportsmanship above all else as a measure of character. But that is absolutely not what the IOC is about.
I still ask, who, ultimately, are the beneficiaries of all those enormous licensing fees? Clearly it is not the athletes.
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ref #162.
"I would say Basketball is second to football as an international sport."
Most likely I diagree with much of your opinions (as you seem to agree with that bigoted Illonis guy), but I totally agree with you on this. Whilst in Seattle, I watched the Seahawks play many teams at the Kingdome/Qwest Field, I attended a few very boring Mariners games at SafeCo Filed and then saw the Sonics at the Key Arena and was lucky enough to have prime seating diectly behind one of teh hoops. I was particularly impressed by the athletscism of Gary Paynton, the speed of play and the phyiscal demands of the game (even with some time-outs it still flowed mcuh more than the other US sports). Also it is a huge sport in much of the world (Europe inlcuded) and the sport deserves a true world cup.
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These are the corporatists who are attacking President Obama and you can expect more back stabbing from these "titans of industry"
These quotes are from an Executives' Club of Chicago panel discussion on "The Impact of Washington's Decisions on the U.S. Economy." at the Fairmont Chicago, Millennium Park hotel.
(notice its in Chicago?)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/esther-j-cepeda/no-good-times-for-big-bus_b_305963.html
"David Chavern, Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, declared that 2008 had been the slowest legislative year in decades but 2009 had immediately launched us into the most pressing core issue debates of our time where "business is the problem and government is the solution." He went on to predict that 2010 will be "the mother of all tax years."
"Norman Bobins, Chairman of The Private Bank & PrivateBancorp, who ripped the government's post-Lehman Brothers failure efforts to avert another Great Recession. "I do not believe we need more regulation or legislative oversight from Congress," he said, struggling with his prepared notes. "We don't need that level of micromanagement -- too much regulation will only drive people out of the system, not make things better and it'll lead to another meltdown."
"William Doyle, fertilizer giant PotashCorp's President and Chief Executive Officer. Doyle offered that "Washington can't see a cornfield and has lost sight of how a truly efficient organization operates," and that "the current presidential administration is too focused on special interests to prioritize the country's urgent needs."
"If three representatives comprise any sort of worthwhile sample at all, then what we can glean is that Big Business is not as interested in making big plans or big money with big ideas as they are in blaming Washington D.C. for all that ultimately ails you."
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ref #162.
Oh and sorry not sure if NBA was the correct term used for baseball? If it's the basketball guys then I apoligise, as they are true atheletes.
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161, Over 40.
"Have you ever travelled outside the US? You might be surprised just how much freedom MOST countries have."
I certainly know there is more personal freedom in Iran than here, no matter what the media is fantasizing about. I lived there for a good chunk of my life.
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To all of you europeans, blinded at the anti-american voting, remember the Eurovision song contest, when GB won the last place? Remember, how you went and changed the rules because as you put it, "bias votes"? Well its the same thing here, so dont tell Americans that we're being spoiled and suck it up when we cry "foul"!
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Well..anyway the Olympics has historically been involved with bribery scandals...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Winter_Olympic_bid_scandal
"The 2002 Olympic Winter Games bid scandal was a scandal involving allegations of bribery to obtain the 2002 Olympic Winter Games in Salt Lake City, Utah. Before 1995, the city had attempted several times to secure the games, but failed each time. In 1995, Salt Lake City was announced as the host city, but in 1998 the members of the International Olympic Committee (IOC) were accused of taking bribes from the Salt Lake Organizing Committee (SLOC)."
If its happened before why can't it happen again?
But if I could have voted it would have been for Rio and I look forward to the excitement of having the Olympics in a South American nation...
What a distinction..I've been censored : ) by the BBC : )
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166, Illinoisan.
Wow! So because we don't know who the miniscule number of terrorists are, we should treat all Middle Easterners as terrorists. How clever of you. I wish my mind were as simple as yours.
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168, Illinoisan.
"...all of the countries we have helped over the years defend their democracy from others."
I guess you are not taling about Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Ref #175
Most people on this blog have travled outside this country.
but Marbles I don't believe you about Iran. No one can honestly say there is more freedom in Iran?
Not with the intolerant mullahs:
Questions
Can woman wear a bikini or dress how they choose there
Can you criticize the ayatoollahs without consequences
Can gays live there freely
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Illinoisan wrote (146)
"The question is: how can you tell apart an Islamic terrorist from an Islamic person, who is not a terrorist? You cannot, which is why, all Islamic people are suspicious to me."
And in 166:
"My problem is not with skin color. My problem is with the Islamic terrorists, who hide amongst the Islamic people, who are not terrorists. You don't know who is a terrorist and who is not."
Please explain to me how then, you have this extraordinary ability to recognise 'an Islamic person' since not all Muslim men wear beards, and not all Muslim women wear a headscarf. You must, I have to presume, be suspicious of men with my colouring and hair, though I don't come from the Middle East and I'm not a Muslim, of some Jews perhaps, of Egyptian Copts and Lebanese Greek Orthodox Christians, of Spaniards and many South Americans. And we won't mention that many Moslems from the Middle East are no darker, often paler, than I am. It is actually possible for a Moslem from some parts of the Middle East to be blond with blue eyes. And then there are Malayan Moslems. . . .
I dislike these casual evasions of what anyone with half an eye can infer.
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Illinoisan;
"Rio's disadvantages: lack of security and safety, high rate of murder, crime, and kidnappings, lack of lodging for athletes and spectators, lack of funding"
You left a couple out. The police beat and kill homeless orphaned children. There are periodic prison riots. The prisoners run the prisons and sometimes jail breaks threaten to unleash society's worst criminals on to the streets.
BraZil should also have been punished for blackmailing the world by insisting on extortion being paid to them to keep their farmers from burning down the Amazon rain forest. When you get below the surface, there's a lot that stinks about BraZil. BTW, I understand that the sewage system in Rio is awful and once you get past the 4 block depth of the tourist areas along the coastal beaches, you get into some rather nasty areas. Perhaps those who have been there can shed more light on whether these reports I've heard are true or exaggerated.
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Squirrelizt;
"The question is: how can you tell apart an Islamic terrorist from an Islamic person, who is not a terrorist? You cannot, which is why, all Islamic people are suspicious to me."
More to the point of America's security, how can you tell apart a closet British Redcoat in a sleeper cell from a Brit who is not one? You cannot which is why, all British people are suspicious to me. Call it Anglophobia or whatever you like, I think in their hearts the Brits still haven't given up on taking back the colonies.
And they ran through the briars
And they ran through the brambles
And they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go.
They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch 'em
From down the Misssissippi to the gulf of Mexico.
Every American should have a musket, powder horn, a ramrod, and a plentiful supply of musket balls on the mantle above the fireplace at the ready just in case they ever make the mistake of coming back. I'll be waitin' for ya Nigel.
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Islamist groups should speak up about denouncing terrorism in their communities and how terrorism is murder. That would be a start to show they are trying to weed out terrorism and stop it before it starts.
The USA really needs to help Somalia. They have asked for help to overthrow the Islamic insurgents there. I know we have offered some aid and assistance, but I think there definitely needs to be more. If people are asking for our help, we should help them.
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And MarcusAureliusII, I bet that your anscestors will be turning in their grave right now. The 'Brits' fought fellow Brits (and fellow Masons) in that war.... and those Masons still rule both nations. You have been suckered into the plot and you are neither.... just a worker ant in the great schéme of things. I'm sure that youtr long lost relatives are still back in their home country enjoying their home made wine, home cured ham and a simple life without all the lies and propoganda... just the way it should be.
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184, Illinoisan.
"Islamist groups should speak up about denouncing terrorism in their communities and how terrorism is murder. That would be a start to show they are trying to weed out terrorism and stop it before it starts."
I have an even better suggestion. Let the West stop victimizing Middle East countries and pitting them one against the other. I betcha there would be an enormous decrease in terrorism, theirs, that is. Ours is something else. Unless you don't call invading sovereign nations terrorism.
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ref #184. Illinoisan.
Now that you are off your high horse I can agree with you on some issues. The way that most Islamic nations treat women (e.g. honour killings) is shameful. Their intolerance for other religions in their own countries, whilst pushing for Mosques in their host contries is shameful too.... but this is a result of the same ambition to spead their faith... but in many ways it is no different that the practices used by the Catholic Church in yesteryear. A friend once convincing explained to me that there is little difference between the two religions, except that Islam is a few centuries behind the Catholic church, thus the drive for expansion is stronger. Fact is that people are still pawns in this power game, being swayed by the influences of religion and now politices.
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There are about 1.2 Billion Muslims in the world or about 22% of the world's population. If they were all violent we would have many more problems than we now have. : )
In the US we have the highest percentage of our population in prison in the world. This graph will show how that prison population has grown over the years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_incarceration_timeline-clean.svg
"The United States has the highest documented incarceration rate,[3][4] and total documented prison population in the world.[3][5][6] As of year-end 2007, a record 7.2 million people were behind bars, on probation or on parole. Of the total, 2.3 million were incarcerated.[7] More than 1 in 100 American adults were incarcerated at the start of 2008. The People's Republic of China ranks second with 1.5 million, while having four times the population, thus having only about 18% of the US incarceration rate.[8][9]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
However you look at it, having that high a percentage incarcerated is a problem for the US. Either we are putting too many people in prison or we have an unusually criminal population.
Another way to look at violence is to see which places have the highest murder rates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
The world average is 7.6 murders per 100,000 and the US has a murder rate of 16.2 per 100,000, more than double the world's rate
This is a nice graphic showing murder rates around the world
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide-world.png
For an affluent western nation the US has a problem with violence imo. Compare the US with western Europe for murder rates in the above link .
How much freedom is there when you have such a high percentage in prison or if you have a high murder rate?
The US has problems and denying it won't help correct the problems (sigh)
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Bonkers Plankton;
Actually most of my ancestors migrated to the US. Those that didn't are lost to history. Hope they never find me if there are any of them still alive. If they do, the first thing they'd probably do is ask me for money.
My grandfather was a Mason. I don't know anything about them. I don't care to. I don't believe in most conspiracy theories. What you say falls on deaf ears as far as I am concerned. Every bonkers kook has some strange conspiracy theory, all of them wacko, all of them wrong. Why don't you tell me about how Elvis is still alive and being kept in a secret hiding place for his own safety by the US government? How about how Princess Di was assassinated so that she wouldn't marry a Moslem. So all that stuff about taxation without representation was just a smoke screen and all of those farmers who fought the British Redcoats and Hessian mercenaries were duped. Every history book got it wrong...except yours. What's the day the world will end? December 21, 2012? Someone ought to make a movie.
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Lostallyourmarbles'
"Unless you don't call invading sovereign nations terrorism."
I guess that all depends on your point of view. What would you call Iran's invasion of Lebanon using its surrogates in Hezbollah? I'll bet you would not call that terrorism would you? Then how about the simultaneous invasion of Israel by Egypt, Jordan, and Syria? You wouldn't call that terrorism either, would you? What about Iraq's invasion of Kuwait, was that terrorism? If it was, that would make Saddam Hussein and his regime terrorists even if they hadn't murdered a million Iraqis, wouldn't it? And that would mean invading Iraq to overthrow that regime would not be an act of terrorism but of liberation and removal of a menace...or would it also be terrorism? How about the invaion of the United States by the Sicilian Mafia, is that terrorism?
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156. At 10:24pm on 03 Oct 2009, Zvonko_Plonko wrote:
ref #113 Gavrielle_LaPoste
Sorry that my remark came accross to you as rude and insulting. But I also find it insulting when institutions such as the NFL and NBA self appoint themsleves as world bodies and give their domestic champions the false accolade of world champions. It smacks of arrogance and nationalism.
I get that, but it's just advertising designed to hype interest. No one here really thinks that unless they haven't seen much of the world or are too ignorant for sensible people to care about! My original comment about FIFA wasn't meant to imply anything negative. It was just a statement of fact. It was what I saw. That I didn't think it mattered to Chicagoans. Not the way it might matter to Angelinos, because they have a much larger Latin American population in California. Or to New Yorkers where the game is extremely popular, because 60% of the city is currently made up of people born outside the US.
So saying America doesn't need to host the World Cup based on the behavior of the natives in one particular city completely misses the point of what America is. There really is no one national sport here. Baseball is a national pastime because anyone can toss a ball. Basketball is popular too because all you need is a hoop and a ball. And football is popular because, well... You know, I never did figure that out, but it's a lot of fun to watch 300 pound men in tight shiny spandex trousers mow each other down by slamming into each other at full speed trying to get a little ball from one end of the field to the other. In any case, most sports fans here like several different types of sports that are all at the national level and they watch them throughout the year. They may like one more than any other, but most of the time American football fans don't go around disrespecting ice hockey fans, basketball players feel free to enjoy watching baseball, and most of people I know also play all the sports they're into watching.
Personally, I think the whole world needs to loosen up and start enjoying multiple sports. One is not "better" than any other - except maybe fencing ;)
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MarcusuranusII, my grandfather was also a Mason and took that shame to his grave. Choose what you want to believe, but George Washington himslef was a redcoat and layed the cornerstone of the White house ...FACT. Also nearly all the food that you eat in the US is still Btish owned, even Betty Croker's crappy cake mixes..... so believe what you want to belive. Nevertheless I am sure that your true anscestors that you have so shamfully disowned wouldn't dream of coming to you to ask you for money (which you probably don't have), they probably have more than you and eat rael meat withou cancerous growth hormones and naturally grown veggies.
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ref #192. Gavrielle_LaPoste very nice post.
I agree.
The problem with all this is that I disagree with all this nationalism, religious fanatism and racism. All of which are designed to divide us rather than unite us.
I don't condune with any disgrimination, towards race, sex, nationalaty etc, thus sports is great as it is the modern alternative to warfare.... but when some of the worst offenders on here get on their high horse to promote such things, I can't help but react. I have had the blessing of living in 4 continents and feel lucky to have learn't from the different cultures. I detect so much more racism etc. here (despite Obama's election victory), Xenophobia and global ingorance that I can't help to have a dig.
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I have an idea! Why don't we have an international athletic contest where
no flags are unfurled, and the emphasis is on the individual?
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It is a fairly small humiliation for Obama, but it is being blown up out of proportion.
Obama is trying to do far too much at once. He made a mistake with this, but it's not a shameful one. For us, his visit to Denmark coincided with very bad numbers on unemployment. The juxtatposition made Obama seem shallow and out-of-touch. He needs to focus on the economy and stay focused - no more overseas jaunts and press opportunities for a while. The campaign is over.
I was intrigued by his speech where he apologized - again - for Americans, and promised that if the Olympics were held in Chicago that the world would once again accept Americans as 'open to others'.
That seems more than a bit over-the-top: this notion of Americans as permanent pariahs and evildeoers in an otherwise perfect world is trendy and melodramatic and of course flatters other nations, but a very deep anti-Americanism is not going to be changed by public relations surrounding the Olympics.
It's good news for Rio. No doubt they will make a great success of it.
I'm sure that in the current political climate no US city would be chosen. It simply wouldn't happen.
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189, Bethpa.
Oh, Bethpa, why do you introduce reality into this forum? Why do you attack the myth that we are a peaceful country that ony desires to introduce freedom to the benighted ignorant? We don't attack nations; we liberate them. That they don't recognize our altruism and our peaceful intentions merely demonstrates their ignorance. For all the talk of oppression in the nations we castigate, isn't it remarkable that we have more jailbirds than anyone else?
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2016 is still a while from now, and a lot can happen from now until then. However a lot can still happen in Vancouver.
Hopefully all this mussing around with nuclear stuff will work out good for all of us. If Obama had pulled off getting the IOC to vote for Chicago in some way, that much leverage would have been by many as partial treatment to the US. When already 2 have been held in the US.
Brazil will do a great job with this in 2016.
It is about time for small changes to begin happening with regard to Latin America. Hugo Chavez I bet will be There and Maybe even Fidel Castro. Maybe someday they could be held in Cuba also.
Although it is pretty dangerous times with all the terrr, I mean bombings and all. One just doesn't feel safe like it used to be. I am going to start saving money and maybe by 2016, assuming I don't get sick that is, I will have enough to pay for the trip. I think Oprah chipped in for gas on her trip with Obama and Michelle, but maybe some of the other passengers might have gotten a free ride. Wow this presidency has a lot of topics and it keeps jumping from health care to war to Global climate to Acorns to Games etc.
Yeah, its just like One life to Live.
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I'm singing off now.
It's way too late and I was hoping to stay up longer to the watch the Japanese Grand Prix, but don't think I can handle another 2 hours (that's another semi world sport buy the way, but I have loved it since a kid and want Lewis Hamilton to get another victory).
Being new to this site, I have enjoyed reading and contributing to this forum. Some of the postings have been very educational to me, in particular Gavrielle_LaPoste and bethpa. Other's like MarcusAureliusII have been rather infuriating, but perhaps he has time to learn...
Thank you again, Gavrielle_LaPoste and bethpa. Good people deserve all the best in life.
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Am I the only person who doesn't care where the Olympics are held? If I am missing something political, I don't care about that either.
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Maybe some of you do not know about Rachel Maddow?
She represents my part of America and she recently gave a report on her tv show about how some of the conservatives in America cheered when America lost the Olympics..and its because they are trying to weaken President Obama and his his ability to change America.
You can watch that report on You Tube here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko4nZnuJess
Rachel Maddow: America Lost Olympics! - Right Wing Celebrates!
#200 allmymarbles
I'll enjoy the shows associated with the Olympics...the dancing and the music will be very spirited and I bet you will like them also : ) Maybe we will learn some words in Portuguese too.
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Bethpa: "Maybe some of you do not know about Rachel Maddow?
She represents my part of America and she recently gave a report on her tv show about how some of the conservatives in America cheered when America lost the Olympics..and its because they are trying to weaken President Obama and his his ability to change America."
--------------------------------------------------
Maddow is the left wing version of Rush Limbaugh, and just about as reliable. Both are absurd.
Some on the far right were happy that Obama was humiliated. Some on the far left blamed anti-Americanism. In both cases it was turned into a major story when we should be looking at other things.
For the vast majority of us, it wasn't that significant. I live in the Chicago suburbs (although I am not a Chicago native) and I am very relieved that we will not be spending money we do not have on something we cannot afford.
And also - if anyone knows Chicago, they know it is already a traffic nightmare. The Olympics would turn it into one giant parking lot.
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200. At 04:14am on 04 Oct 2009, allmymarbles wrote:
"Am I the only person who doesn't care where the Olympics are held? If I am missing something political, I don't care about that either."
No, you are not. See mine at 65 -
KScurmudgeon
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201, Bethpa.
"I'll enjoy the shows associated with the Olympics...the dancing and the music will be very spirited and I bet you will like them also : ) Maybe we will learn some words in Portuguese too."
Actually I would like to go to Brazil. I have never been there. I speak Portuguese (rather badly) but enough to get around.
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#202 Timothy R444
The Difference between Rachel Maddow and Rush Limbaugh
(quotes from wikipedia)
Rachel Maddow
"Maddow earned a degree in public policy from Stanford University in 1994.[12] At graduation she was awarded the John Gardner Fellowship. She was also the recipient of a Rhodes Scholarship and began her postgraduate study in 1995 at Lincoln College, Oxford. In 2001, she completed her Doctor of Philosophy degree (styled a DPhil) in politics from the University of Oxford.[13] Her doctoral thesis is titled HIV/AIDS and Health Care Reform in British and American Prisons. She was the first openly gay American to win a Rhodes scholarship.[14][15]"
Rush Limbaugh
"After attending Southeast Missouri State University for a year he dropped out of college."
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189. At 02:57am on 04 Oct 2009, bethpa wrote:
"For an affluent western nation the US has a problem with violence imo. Compare the US with western Europe for murder rates in the above link. How much freedom is there when you have such a high percentage in prison or if you have a high murder rate? The US has problems and denying it won't help correct the problems (sigh)"
I do not intend to justify, condone, or deny any of the conditions you have identified about us in the USA, bethpa - however -
Perhaps we can reach way out there and link this thought with the other discussions we have had about the state of health care in America. The common link is the present blog's discussion of freedom in America.
What are the comparative rates of drug and alcohol abuse in the USA? What are the trends of obesity?
The vast majority of Americans feel they are accountable to no one but themselves, and that the purpose of life is the pursuit of goods and values one identifies for oneself. This, we feel, is personal freedom. It's your life, live it any way you damn well please.
There are minorities on the left and on the right, of course, who hold forth on one or more forms of altruism. And nearly all Americans even in the middle will in specific instances forego self indulgence for the sake of children, family, even spouses' interests, some even for the sake of civil order.
So, for example, the appeal to personal choice made by insurance companies and their lackeys on the right, in an effort to prevent the reform of our health system, gets its strength not from any rational argument, (since the present system is designed to prevent fair evaluation and open, free exercise of choice by health consumers) but from our visceral abhorrence of any systematic effort to tell us what we should do. It is enough to claim 'they will take away your choice', to carry the argument.
Look at us, at where we have come from. As I have said on Justin's blog Americans are in the great part the descendants of the world's peasants, those who were unable to make it in the old world, and in desperation cast themselves into the wilderness of the new world and found within a generation or two that they had ready to hand the opportunity to indulge all their peasant appetites. Your rebellious troublemakers have become great lords, captains of industry, paragons of achievement in the fulfillment of mankind's oldest dreams and desires.
We are not bad people nor malicious; we have had far, far too much opportunity to do right by ourselves.
Come and join us - start in Texas.
KScurmudgeon
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201. At 04:38am on 04 Oct 2009, bethpa wrote:
"Maybe some of you do not know about Rachel Maddow?"
I know I am further besmirching my credentials as a conservative (and therefore unreasoning bigot), but I have loved Rachael Maddow from the start. I knew there was something peculiar about her - and now it is out - she thinks.
KScurmudgeon
unabashed
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Rachael - the antithesis of Sarah?
KScurmudgeon
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KScurmudgeon:
"The vast majority of Americans feel they are accountable to no one but themselves, and that the purpose of life is the pursuit of goods and values one identifies for oneself. This, we feel, is personal freedom. It's your life, live it any way you damn well please."
----------------------
Curmudgeon indeed...
This trendy, fatuous, exhausting anti-Americanism is about as interesting as watching paint dry. It no doubt will find an audience among those who gurgle with narcissistic delight at any insult thrown at Americans. But otherwise it is just so much rubbish - and there is so much of it.
Hopefully we will have a new trend soon. This combination of tired self-pity and condescension has had its day, and is now so boring that it produces instant sleep....
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209. At 06:07am on 04 Oct 2009, TimothyR444 wrote:
"Curmudgeon indeed...
This trendy, fatuous, exhausting anti-Americanism is about as interesting as watching paint dry. It no doubt will find an audience among those who gurgle with narcissistic delight at any insult thrown at Americans. But otherwise it is just so much rubbish - and there is so much of it.
Hopefully we will have a new trend soon. This combination of tired self-pity and condescension has had its day, and is now so boring that it produces instant sleep.... "
Gee, I hope you weren't talking about me -
We are the challenge to all that they stand for, the irritating counterexample to all that homogeneity. But that is why we left them behind, isn't it?
yours,
KScurmudgeon
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#206 KS curmudgeon
I believe there is a serious flaw in the philosophy that has developed in the US that you are able to write:
"The vast majority of Americans feel they are accountable to no one but themselves, and that the purpose of life is the pursuit of goods and values one identifies for oneself.
This, we feel, is personal freedom. It's your life, live it any way you damn well please"
(KScurmudgeon quote)
Since I am within the culture also it is difficult for me to look at it objectively..but overall the culture looks too selfish...and respects money too much.
Somehow we have become very materialistic and the business leaders and their corporations have used that weakness in American values to build up their power and are now changing the US government to suit their own drive for money and power. This materialism has caused us to want to amass things and led us into tremendous debt as a nation
I can't tell anymore if we do have a system that works with honest people or if there is a lot of corruption and wealthy groups coming together and causing mischief
( I thought that Obama was set up to fail with the Olympic bid with the intention to weaken his position as president. My post about that was censored. )
Too few of our children are well educated and we now have rising obesity rates in children. Our children need our help.
I think the way that Obama has been attacked is disgraceful and humiliating America. These people have no shame. All they want is to lower taxes and make money and they want to limit government regulations anyway they can. They are being caught in lies and yet still seem to appeal to many Americans.
There was a time when America rooted for the underdog..Remember when we were like that?
We need heroes who are not based in wealth and power, we need heroes based in morality.
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#209. TimothyR444: "This combination of tired self-pity and condescension has had its day, and is now so boring that it produces instant sleep...."
To sleep, perchance to dream. Good night, sweet prince, and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest! And would it be l-o-o-n-g.
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bethpa at 211 -
Again, I do not intend to justify our selfishness and materialism, only to call it what it is (in my view), and to also illuminate the benefits that do come to us as a result of this peculiar freedom, by contrast to the general malaise of European spirit and thought that some have demonstrated on this blog.
I agree with all you say above.
Tonight there was a book review on CNN of Chris Hedges' new book "Empire of Illusion", which seems to make many of the points you are making. I am going to have to go out and get a copy tomorrow, if it is in the bookstores.
Hedges' thesis is that we are giving our greatest rewards to people who are very skilled analysts, but who are not trained to ask the central questions about what gives the greatest value to a life, nor to examine and question our systems in terms of their outcomes for all the various people who are invested in them. He has hope, ultimately, in the human ability to think outside the box and devise correctives.
I also rented and watched the new movie "The Watchmen" this weekend. The great, dark graphic novel in a very graphic presentation, on precisely the same theme that we are discussing. As the Comedian, one of the more sinister characters, says in the midst of rioting in the streets "This IS the American dream". If you are not squeamish, I recommend it as high literature. Superheroes being what they are, always deal in good vs. evil, light and darkness.
KScurmudgeon
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Benton's "The Age of Lincoln" does a great job of putting your argument in it's historical context.
Before the civil war, America's self image was millenialist - we were the city on the hill, destined by God to show the world the way to a better future. One of the results, of course, was the destruction of those courtesies and compromises that allowed the founding fathers to join slave and free societies in our constitutional union.
Lincoln proposed a 'republican' union, based on equal rights for all and popular sovereignty.
The unintended result of that struggle and the resolution of the constitutional crisis was the triumph of the Republican manufacturing and financial interests, and the destruction of both Lincoln's vision and the American idealism that you refer to.
KScurmudgeon
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194. At 03:33am on 04 Oct 2009, Zvonko_Plonko wrote:
I don't condune with any disgrimination, towards race, sex, nationalaty etc, thus sports is great as it is the modern alternative to warfare.... but when some of the worst offenders on here get on their high horse to promote such things, I can't help but react. I have had the blessing of living in 4 continents and feel lucky to have learn't from the different cultures. I detect so much more racism etc. here (despite Obama's election victory), Xenophobia and global ingorance that I can't help to have a dig.
I hear you, and I am equally guilty of the same thing at times. As I suspect, are we all. But I can't say that Americans are really any worse than any other group for racism, xenophobia or global ignorance. One only has to look at any number of countries to see the same exact behavior, some with ongoing genocidal mass murder included. It's just that America is so visible and open as a society that we tend to get noticed. China and other countries hide their dirty laundry and silence opposition. America just lets it all hang out. Not, of course, for the world's entertainment, but because this is just the way we are with each other. We don't have to like what others are saying, we don't even have to listen. But we do have to allow them to say it as long as they aren't breaking any laws.
And no, there is no law against hate speech here. Our philosophy is that by allowing people to say things we consider most hateful, others with differing points of view will rise up and express the opposite opinion in rebuttal and sway listeners to their side of the argument. It makes for very dynamic national discussions which, historically speaking, have frequently disturbed the collective psyche of the European powers. As Thomas Jefferson said in his first inaugural address, "During the contest of opinion through which we have passed the animation of discussions and of exertions has sometimes worn an aspect which might impose on strangers unused to think freely and to speak and to write what they think..." He was referring to the very nasty election campaign of 1800 against incumbent president, John Adams. Adams lost, badly, and was very bitter about it too.
That said, I think the resistance to Obama is part of a larger, ongoing issue in American politics and culture. It is also typical of American democracy that when issues of great importance are at stake we get loud and sometimes nasty. Mudslinging, character assassination and outrageous behavior are a perfectly normal part of our politics, though most people would like to believe otherwise. It's why Europe always thought we would fail as a nation. Especially when the Civil War broke out and we slaughtered each other wholesale over states rights and slavery until 2% of the population, more than 600,000 soldiers, were dead. The fact is we're a very passionate people when it comes to politics. Some might say we're more than a little crazy. But then you'd have to be, wouldn't you, having ancestors insane enough to get on a bunch of leaky boats and travel across the Atlantic in horrific conditions just to get away from Europe.
By the way, I think you've actually managed to define American football. It's a war game in the same way chess is a war game. Those pauses aren't for catching one's breath (no self-respecting player would even admit to needing a rest!) they're for strategically repositioning the pieces on the board. And if you want a better understanding of both racism and American football, I'd recommend watching Remember the Titans. A great film made all the better by the gorgeous Denzel Washington.
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fluffytale and #159.
Re, "....do you have any idea how many people are shot by cops in the USA..."
Well, as a matter of fact I do - - so could you if you bothered to check the Federal Statistics - - the last figures I could find were for 2007-08 when some 2,419 citizens were shot by US Policemen in the line of duty; the number of deaths is recorded as a seemingly low 834. I could not find figures for how many of the shot were eventually prosecuted or indeed found to be innocent.
The number of Civilian deaths caused by 'unlawful killing' by other Civilians using a 'gun' of some kind in the USA was far higher, at 9,886.
Now it maybe you are under the impression Brazil is safer, but, you are totally wrong: Deaths from guns in Brazil (with a smaller population than the USA) was in 2005-06 an amazing 11,704! And you got the other bit wrong too - - at least a third of those were the result of Cop-Military shootings! That excludes the deaths in Brazilian Prisons which are the highest of any Nation except South Africa!
At least you did concede, although almost as if it didn't matter at all, that in Brazil "...street kids..I bet.." get shot by Brazilian Police!
Now as to my "...giving it up... bad sports... americans.." Well, as is typical of many of your Comments on here you got that wrong too - - I am not American and do not live in America!
You, like the Olympic Committee appear to have the CopaCabana beach view of Brazil as opposed to the reality (though I would also point out no tourist or respectable Brazilian would venture anywhere near that beach once its sunset! The numbers for assaults, muggings are horrendous!).
Brazil may not have been involved in the Pres Bush's disastrous Iraq war, but, that does not have anything to do with Brazil's internal record which is, I repeat, one of murderous mayhem every month.
I hope Brazil and Rio can sort itself over the next 6 years but my goodness that will need a complete turnabout in the attitude to the importance of life by every level of Brazilian society.
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Mark: "The argument had already been doing the rounds that he should concentrate on the big stuff, and not on such trivia. But that position has already been undermined. He used his European trip to have a meeting in the front of Air Force One with Gen Stanley McChrystal, the top military man in Afghanistan. So not a wasted journey."
President Obama met with General McChrystal for 25 mins on Airforce One because McChrystal happened to be in London. That hardly counts as a real meeting on the way to Copenhagen; especially when it's the first in how many months?
Now as for Rio wining the Olympic Games, I was not surprised to hear the news. As a matter of fact, I kinda like the idea of the Olympics going to South America for a change. However, I would have been happy to see it in Chicago too. What surprised me was that Chicago lost in the first round. I know I shouldn't feel this way because I'm sure Tokyo and Madrid wanted it just as much, but it felt like a slap in the face. In a way, Obama should have seen the possibility of this coming; I mean, I'm not one of those people who thought the idea of the trip was a waste, but I did find it...tacky.
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bethpa # 211: "I think the way that Obama has been attacked is disgraceful and humiliating America. These people have no shame. All they want is to lower taxes and make money and they want to limit government regulations anyway they can. They are being caught in lies and yet still seem to appeal to many Americans."
It's all very appealing because most Americans like being able to do what they want, when they want with their money, time, and resources because it's theirs, not the government's. The reality is that regulation and taxation is a way for the Federal and State governments to decide for all of us at varying degrees of dictation or persuasion how to live our lives and use our resources and talents for "the common good" and "mutual defense" of all. The point is to find the right balance because one extreme leads to totalitarianism and the other to anarchy -- neither of which are good things. It is my opinion that if individual states want to enact more of the large government policies that you are in favor of, then so be it, but the Feds should not be consolidating so much power and influence at the expense of the states. That is the very reason we have a Federal system and not a Unitary one.
The point is that certain policy decisions, even some that seem sensible at face value, should never be made at the Federal level because that Federal government all the way in Washington, D.C. is far less accessible, far less accountable, and far less responsive, than state and local authorities. And it will never change, not because the Federal government is bad or broken, but because of the nature of politics and geography.
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To all those arguing the toss about what is the World's number 1 Sport you have all got it totally wrong.
DARTS is played in more countries around the World than any other Sport.
If you want to rear your youth to be supremely sporting choose DARTS:
Players can be male or female, from almost any age, with anywhere from 2 upwards competitors per match, and the equipment is ultra cheap using a relatively small playing zone, as well as the game can be played in or outdoors - - Players must exhibit a keen eye, deft throwing skills, stamina to be upright for long periods, able to withstand severe pressure for crucial points, unphased by opposition fans at close quarters, good at multiplication and addition, impeccably sporting on positioning, scoring and result, and of course, the key element it can all be done whilst having a very good soft/alcohol drink and chat with your opponent/s!
Viva DARTS! The truly OLYMPIAN SPORT OF SPORTS FOR THE COMMON MAN, WOMAN AND CHILD!
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216. At 08:09am on 04 Oct 2009, ikamaskeip wrote:
The number of Civilian deaths caused by 'unlawful killing' by other Civilians using a 'gun' of some kind in the USA was far higher, at 9,886.
These are important statistics, especially when you consider the number of gun owners in America has been estimated to be about 200 million in a population of 300 million. Although I should point out that the number of people "owning" guns includes every member of a gun owning household, including children. I'm not sure why this is, but I suspect it's because any household where a gun is present, like it or not, may potentially be accessed by any member.
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Fascinating discussion here...
But I've been thinking, and I'm going to assume that lookinlively's question of whether someone blames Obama for everything was intended for me...
Why is it assumed that Obama would be blamed for Chicago NOT getting the Olympics? I'm living abroad at the moment, but honestly, I can't think of anything that would be such a non-issue blown out of proportion than this. I don't think it's worth the president's time on this at all. If we'd never had an Olympics, okay, go ahead and lobby for them. But as someone pointed out, we've had really quite a few. I know Chicago is Obama's hometown, but I can't see any legitimate reason for him to be involved- as far as I can tell it's a mixture of sentimentality and some strange idea that if he didn't go he'd be held responsible. I don't want the man to be responsible for getting the Olympics; the US has plenty of people who are more than capable of putting together a proposal, and after that it's out of our hands. So, no Chicago in 2016. Maybe Chicago will get it another year, or some other US city will host.
Basically, I don't see why this is on the president's agenda at all. I don't think Obama has to prove that an African-American man can "get" the Olympics; that's ludicrous. We have tons of fantastic African-American athletes who represent us at the games proudly, and I'm proud of them and all our athletes. In essence, this whole idea that the Olympics are such an important milestone, or that people would sit around criticising Obama for not getting them is, in my opinion, ridiculous. I don't generally care for the man's policies, but I wouldn't have even thought of blaming him for this until I saw this article.
And guess what? I've read this, and I STILL don't blame him for not getting the Olympics for Chicago.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
ref #202
I'd say Maddow is more of a left wing version of Sean Hanity as they are not both TV personalities.
Maddow got her start on hate Radio's Air America. Than MSNBC resident bomb thrower Keith Obermann political analysts of choice. He helped push out a rational liberal and put Maddow in at 9:00
Like Obermann she engages in character attacks, distortions, Obama cheerleading and getting killed in the ratings by Fox.
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Ref 218, BEL
"The reality is that regulation and taxation is a way for the Federal and State governments to decide for all of us at varying degrees of dictation or persuasion how to live our lives and use our resources and talents for "the common good" and "mutual defense" of all."
Until a better method is devised to address the collective needs of society, government and taxation are the only options we have to receive the services we need. The common good and mutual defense are not, IMO, priorities that should be ignored or dismissed. Going back to the pre-Social Security and MEDICARE days is no more of an alternative that dismantling our military and preparing to defend our country by buying guns at the local gun shop.
The issue, I believe, is whether or not the government (federal, state and local) is spending its revenues effectively and wisely. While I prefer a greater focus on domestic priorities such as repairing and modernizing our infrastructure, R&D, modernizing our industry, finding alternative sources of energy to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, protecting the environment, and investing on education and a more cost-effective and accessible healthcare system I understand the need to protect our global interests.
I object, however, to spending trillions of dollars in foreign adventures that do not contribute to our well being and, instead, exacerbate the suspicions and outright hatred that so many people around the world have for us.
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Gavrielle_LaPoste AND #220.
Yes, the statistics are one aspect of a very complex Amerrican story.
I also found there were 4 US States where no one had died of gunshot wounds in the last 2 years!
Whilst some States have an incredibly high percentage of gun-ownership (Texas 80+%) there are some with less than 10% (Oregon 6%); some States with high ownership also have a high percent rural-hunting community and 'gun-accidents' are consequently on the high side too whereas in their urban areas 'gun-incidents' are more or less normal for a gun-owning society.
Too many people think they 'know' America because of the impact of Hollywood Films and Television Crime/Drama series: The reality is very diferent with whole swathes of American Police and Civilians never having a gun fired in anger or accident throughout their lives. To use a UK comparison - - 'gun crime' has trebled in the last 10 years in Greater London - - WOW! The NuLab Government has been hounded from all sides on this terrible statistic when the actual number of murders by shooting has gone up from 4 a month to 5 in the same period!
Truly, we can all be victims of gun crime, but, we can also be victims of incredibly over-active and damaging stereotyping and excessively poor use of statistics.
Now, none of that changes my view one iota on the selection of Rio de Janeiro for the 2016 Olympics - - it is an extremely dangerous city with a crime rate above anything any European or North American Nation (and Japan too) has experienced in a very long time - - I remain to be convinced that buying a ticket for Rio is not a very bad idea.
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Ref 96, Squirrellist
Thanks for the link. The first thing that struck me was the number of treaties used to hold the EU together. Perhaps the streamlining goal should include a Treaty to scrap all the treaties and start over again. I must admit that reading a few pages had a soporific effect on me...
I support the concept of a unified Europe, if nothing else because it minimizes the probability of war in a continent with a history of violence not too different from ours, and because I believe national alliances are the best way to meet the economic and social challenges of the 21st century.
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195. Guns.
Quite.
And maybe when they choose which new sports to include, the emphasis might be on athletic ability rather than on how much the sport maximizes the opportunity to show photogenic young women on TV scantily clad in skin-tight spandex (t.m.).
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198. At 03:50am on 04 Oct 2009, ranter22 wrote:
"2016 is still a while from now, and a lot can happen from now until then. However a lot can still happen in Vancouver."
_______
It is already clear that the backers are facing a financial debacle. The bid was driven by real-estate speculation, and that bubble has burst. Everybody is running around pointing fingers at each other.
On top of that disaster, the projection of visitors is way down because of America's recession, exacerbated by new passport requirements. A large number of Americans simply don't want to be bothered getting a passport. The predicted tourism jobs aren't materializing.
On top of this, major sponsors are pulling out or cutting back.
And, idiotically, the "host broadcaster" contract was awarded to CTV, a bunch that make Kent Brockman and Ted Baxter look good. So now monsieur Hulot presents the Olympics: "And now over to our biathalon expert, Jacques Clouseau..."
No prize for guessing that B.C. taxpayers are going to end up holding the bag for yet another Olympic boondoggle.
And you say "a lot can still happen in Vancouver"?
You betcha.
This has "train wreck" written all over it, and they are just getting started.
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Ref 225, Ikamanskeip
"Now, none of that changes my view one iota on the selection of Rio de Janeiro for the 2016 Olympics - - it is an extremely dangerous city with a crime rate above anything any European or North American Nation (and Japan too) has experienced in a very long time - - I remain to be convinced that buying a ticket for Rio is not a very bad idea."
Poverty, drugs, and crime are, indeed, a major problem not only in Rio de Janeiro but in most Latin American cities and countries. The problem is influenced by a culture and a socio-economic system that has polarized their societies into two dominant segments: the very rich and the very poor.
Fortunately, Brazil's current prosperity, including its ability to be almost energy independent, a vibrant economy and a robust industry, and the recent discovery of vast petroleum and gas reserves augur desperately needed social changes that may lead to the emergence of a dominant middle class, a reduction in the level of poverty and unemployment, a greater emphasis on education and equality, more benign police tactics, and the subsequent reductions in drug abuse, prostitution and violent crime.
The selection of Rio as the host city for the 2016 Summer Olympics may provide the impetus to achieve the social goals articulated by President Lula, and the material resources available to the 10th largest economy in the world suggest their goals are achievable.
While it may be true that beggars, petty crime, drugs and prostitution can be found throughout Rio, violent crime is usually confined to the shanty towns where squalid favelas are the only abode available to those living in abject misery, with no hope of getting ahead in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Interestingly, the dangers that do exist have not deterred the determination of tens of thousands of tourists from vacationing in Rio, making it one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world.
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192. At 03:09am on 04 Oct 2009, Gavrielle_LaPoste wrote:
"American football fans don't go around disrespecting ice hockey fans, ..."
Please do not call it "ice hockey".
The term "ice hockey" makes hockey fans grit their teeth.
It reminds us of the IIHF, yet another Europe-based, unaccountable, corrupt, bad smelling sporting federation, in many ways not unlike the IOC.
The game we play in North America, the game of Howie Morenz, Teeder Kennedy, Jean Beliveau, Bobby Orr, and Wayne Gretzky is correctly called "hockey".
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ref #227
I hope you are not refering to beach vollyball, as a former amateaur player; I always felt that sport did not get enough respect.
But as an argument about IOC anti U.S. bias how about that they eliminated baseball and softball.
I thik there is more of an audience for that than Lacrosse.
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Dumb Nick;
"the probability of war in a continent with a history of violence not too different from ours"
Where in hell did you learn history? Get your tuition money back, your instructors didn't earn it. Except for the civil war, a legacy of the colonial era where the British created an economy in one region that was entirely dependent on slave labor they profited from selling in America even after our independence and the abolition of slavery in Britain, we haven't had a war fought on our territory in nearly 200 years and have never fought among ourselves in a shooting war. All of our wars have been against foreign enemies the result of threats to our security whether you believe those were all real or some imagined. Europe by contrast has been at war with itself for well over a thousand years. Hardly a generation went by when there wasn't at least one major internescene war on the continent of Europe until the pax American imposed by us after WWII. Even so, war broke out again in the Balkins and ended barely 10 years ago. It threated to flare up into a re-play of WWI, the worst recorded bloodbath the world had seen up to that time.
The violence inflicted by armed private American citizens on each other, bad as it has been pales by comparison to the violence armed governments in Europe have inflicted on their helpless unarmed citizens. Nazi Germany is one example but there are countless others. Violence hardly is the result of gun ownership. When they can't get their hands on guns in Britain, the criminals use knives. Not only that but in Britain as an example, it is illegal to use deadly force to defend your own life or your own family from an attacking intruder even in your own home. This is an inalienable right Americans would fight dying to protect which is why any politican who proposes gun control in America they way they have it in Eruope is committing instant political suicide. BTW, you are just as dead whether you are stabbed to death or shot to death. Criminals will always find ways to get weapons. In America at least they won't know if their intended victim might be shooting back...and that includes when the criminal is the government.
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#219 - I agree DARTS should be in the summer games. I think its the obligatory sip of the pint between each throw thats keeping it out (corruption of youth 'n all that). I suspect the US olympic committe asked the prez to plug Chicago, not just the city - would he have done it for any US city? Likely. If I were an impartial judge, and Rio had shown the wherewithall to hold the games, I would have gone with South America rather than giving the US, Europe or Asia another games first-the US has had quite a few. I can't wait for the music and dancing Rio will put on for the opening ceremony- that oughta be good.
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Ref 228, IF
"This has "train wreck" written all over it, and they are just getting started."
That is one of the most important reasons the people of Chicago should be thankful they were not selected...
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Ref 232, MAII
"...we haven't had a war fought on our territory in nearly 200 years and have never fought among ourselves in a shooting war."
That depends on what you define as "our territory". I suspect, Grenada, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama and all the other little "wars" in our hemisphere don't mean much to you, but they do to everyone else.
In any case, the history of violence I had in mind when I made that comment referred more to our crime rate, much of it perpetrated by the ability of every criminal and nutcase to buy a gun - and use it - than traditional warfare.
"In America at least they won't know if their intended victim might be shooting back...and that includes when the criminal is the government."
I doubt criminals in the USA are too concerned about the probability of someone being able to defend themselves, and since we are the government I reject the notion that our government is a criminal entity.
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MAII and #232.
There you go again MA!
Shocking us with a sudden literate, cohesive and thoroughly substantiated Comment. There is absolutely no doubt Europe as a whole and indeed particular Nations in Europe have horrendously worse violent histories than the USA. UK is not immune from this accusation by reason of its Imperial past.
All that said, your defence of an American Citizen's right to kill another American is a shocking inditement of how the US has failed to progress in this area over 250+ years whereas much of Europe inc. UK (though UK as a loyal NATO ally has always backed the USA unlike other fair-weather European nations) has moved away from violent confrontation.
Only slight hyperbole about the right of Briton's defending their homes - - it's not they are not allowed, its that by rule of Law they have to have good reason to use force - - the US Right to shoot to kill someone found on your propeerty is thankfully not a part of the UK Statute book.
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SaintDominick and #229.
Agree with almost every word and that you find my general description of Brazil's problems is also your experience-understanding of the situation it faces between now and 2016.
Yes, thousands have been tourists in Brazil including me (twice) and I had a short spell working in Rio hence my knowledge of the dangers prevalent in so many of its districts.
Let us hope Brazil and Rio can clean up, but, as of now I would definitely not be saving up for a 2016 Olympic ticket.
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Post183
Marky, I do beleve you are reminding us of the battle of New Orleans.Care to
remind us all of the Blandford races and the pride of the US fleet, US Chesapeake vs HMS Shannon in the same conflict? "NO" I thought not...
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#113. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "Soccer is a game for children and girls in this country."
I trust that you jest. If not, tell that to the Hispanic community!
#192 "it's a lot of fun to watch 300 pound men in tight shiny spandex trousers mow each other down by slamming into each other at full speed"
It's always struck me that it is a homoerotic display; what other sport emphasises masculinity so much?
#230. Interestedforeigner: "Please do not call it "ice hockey"."
Except for North America, surely most of the world does. Hockey, deprecatingly called "field hockey" by some, was around first and then transferred to ice. Just because the US and Canada call it one thing does not make it correct for everyone. It's the same with soccer - everyone knows that it is correctly known as football, no matter that the USA has a version of Rugby football which entails armoured uniforms, presumably so that the players do not get hurt. Take away the protection and then see what kind of game it is.
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Dumb Nick;
The threat of Communist takeover of nations in the western hemisphere not only spreading the cancer of Communism but more importantly as battles in the Soviet evil empire's war of world domination and takeover was an external threat to America's security and was not fought on America's home territory. Defeat of those regimes was definately a victory against the USSR as was the overthrow of the Allende government in Chile. Can't say if the CIA deserves as much credit as some people gave it for those efforts but I for one am grateful for whatever help they did. I'm sure your response would be that Allende was elected democratically. So was Adolf Hitler. Would you have opposed overthrowing a Nazi dictatorship allied with Nazi Germany that managed to get elected in Mexico during WWII?
"your defence of an American Citizen's right to kill another American is a shocking inditement of how the US has failed to progress in this area over 250+ years"
I didn't defend an unrestricted right of one American to kill another, I only defended it when the circumstances clearly defined under American law justify it, praise it, even demand it. When being attacked by a criminal, Americans have an inalienable right to protect themselves and their families with whatever force they deem justified under the circumstances. Usually those with criminal records who get injured or killed by homeowners during commission of a crime get little sympathy from juries of their peers even if an overly zealous prosecutor doesn't think they have that right either. So in Britain they don't use guns to nearly the same degree. Criminals use the tools they can obtain and knives have proven very effective. How telling that a 90 pound 90 year old woman can effectively defend herself against a 300 pound 30 year old knife wielding thug. The guns make the difference between their physical prowess unimportant. We'll keep them. BTW, did you read how a five year old kid from Texas shot and killed an 800 pound alligator the other day. Without that firearm, the kid might have become the alligator's dinner.
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211, bethpa, I could not disagree with you more. The strength of America
has always come from individuals who participate in their communities,
and do good things because they want to, not because some bureaucrat in
Washington has commanded them to.
Obama preaches a false morality, which will become more evident as time
goes by.
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ref #232. MarcusArsholeiusII
Actually it's the Balkans, not Balkins... So I suggest that you get your geography tuition money back.
You may want to do the some to you history tutors as it looks didn't earn it. You may want to read more about your nation's pre-WWII appeasement and dealings with the Nazi's before you get on you high horse. While you are at it perhaps you should read what your hero's grandad was up to during the war too.
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238, ukwales, Chesapeake was the runt of the litter. Besides, we want
a rematch, and the USS Vance would do nicely.
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Ref 240, MAII
We did not attack Third World countries in Latin America because they represented a threat to our national security, we did it to protect our interests in the region and gain political points by feeding on the paranoia and hatred that characterizes the far right.
Insinuating the Grenada, El Salvador or Nicaragua were a threat to us is absurd, and using the domino effect as an excuse for our immoral behavior in Latin America is more than disingenous.
Most of the governments we have overthrown in the region, and the leaders we assasinated or would like to assasinate, are not communists; they are modern-day socialists intent on using government to improve the standard of living of people in countries where misery and a total absence of hope is the norm.
You may want to consider calling the NRA and recommending the inclusion of the 5-year old kid in Texas that killed an alligator, I am sure a lot of nuts will love the justification to make guns available to every criminal and fanatic in our country. Personally, I prefer to watch the alligators in my neighborhood. I leave them alone and they do likewise.
Do you honestly believe criminals send advance notification to their victims before shooting them, because that is almost the only way carrying a weapon for defensive purposes would serve as a deterrant...
Gunfight at the OK Corral was a fun movie, but I don't think I would like to see my country become a re-enactment of that exciting Western.
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ref #241 - gunsandreligion
"The strength of America
has always come from individuals who participate in their communities,
and do good things because they want to, not because some bureaucrat in
Washington has commanded them to."
So tell me who is reponsible for the bad things that you do? Is that also the individuals in their communities, or is that left to those nasty old bureaucrats in Washington?
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The Olympics is NOT about making money!!!! sigh
Its about an exchange between nations in a non violent atmosphere on the sports field. Its supposed to bring about harmony between nations.
I loved it when the Olympics was in Norway and THEY cheered every player when they went over the finish line..and cheered them all as they were competing...because the Norwejians had the Olympic Spirit.
Its unlikely that there is much financial gain immediately with the Olympics..There is already a number of tourists that come into a city like Rio and some of those tourists will not come because of the congestion etc that comes with the Olympics. Those tourists are replaced by sports tourists...so the number of tourists remains approximately constant.
What a nation gains with the Olympics is pride and acknowledgment from other nations. If the nation is clever they will design structures that can be used after the games have left.
NOT EVERYTHING IS MEASURED IN MONEY!!!
The love of money is a false value.
Yes Rio has a high crime rate...but maybe shining a spotlight on that will help bring attention to their problems and maybe there are some solutions that will be found...
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Zvonko, are you accusing me of doing bad things? Since you don't know me,
how could you possibly do that?
bethpa, perhaps I overreacted to your comment. I didn't mean to take it
out on you. I'm probably still reacting to Carter's comments a while back,
which, unfortunately, are not atypical of the left.
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Blanko Zvonko;
"Actually [MarcusArsholeiusII] it's the Balkans, not Balkins"
That's it, that's your post? That's what you have to say?
By the way, you wouldn't happen to be from Zvagreb would you?
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#218 BienvenueEnLouisiana
"Americans like being able to do what they want, when they want with their money, time, and resources because it's theirs, not the government's."
Absolutely wrong. The money belongs to the government. and you do not own it. It is given to you to make transactions..but the actual physical money is not yours. How much money you recieve depends upon the transactions you make for your labor..The government tries to protect you by setting a standard of how much you are worth per hour ( minimum wage). The government can flood the economy with money it makes and your dollars will lose value.
Nor is any land yours except by agreement with the laws and any land can be taken by eminent domain by the government.
Either America catches up with Europe and starts educating children and providing health care or the US will fail. Right now people are coming here because of the strength of the US dollar but it looks like that will be changing. The US dollar imo will not be the world's currency in the future. There is talk about a basket of currencies.
Also people come here because of our research and universities. But many of the intellectuals who would be attracted to America are angry about how some Americans are saying negative things about their nations. There is a feeling of bad will that has developed while Bush was president. America is seen as a nation that has many arrogant and uneducated people.who are rude...that is not good
And while the people who are gullible and believe the lies (coming out of the corporations via the corrupted Republican party),and blame Obama and the EU and point their fingers at everyone else but themselves...The other nations will succeed, and their currencies will appreciate and their universities will attract world class scientists.
I would like to see the United States split up. Let the red states fail and then the blue states can pick up what's left.
Some of the arguments you are making about the lack of accessibility to a large government in comparison to accessibility to a more local government.. I have heard argued about the EU also. Europeans are worried about what happens in their nations as they join the EU...so you are not alone...
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#241 guns and religion
In my community we just had a community meeting set up by the police ...because there have been so many burglaries. The police were warning us about what to do if we confront someone actually stealing in our homes...( Great!! just great!!)
That higher crime rate was caused by people being out of work and wanting money to buy drugs. Those are issues that I and my local community can not deal with. The police said they were overloaded with cases.
I want the guns in the hands of trained professional police who will protect me and my neighbors from criminals. I do not want one of my neighbors running around with a gun in some crazy notion that he will now be a vigilante and save America.
The big policies coming out of Washington have an effect upon the communities and can make problems worse or better.
(You won't offend me with your opinions. I sometimes miss when someone addresses me though...I apologize if I miss a comment...just remind me if I missed something...I'm sometimes obnoxious without meaning to be...well I am an American )
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239. At 4:25pm on 04 Oct 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#113. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "Soccer is a game for children and girls in this country."
I trust that you jest. If not, tell that to the Hispanic community!
I said as much when I wrote the comment. That is what "tongue in cheek" means. And I don't have to tell that to the Hispanic community. They already know. Half my neighbors are Latino. They play soccer and baseball in the summer and watch football in the winter. It really isn't a big deal here who plays what game. Not when every sport is considered a worthy exercise for both fans and players by the population at large.
ref #239
It's always struck me that it is a homoerotic display; what other sport emphasises masculinity so much?
If you perceive it to be homoerotic then I think you need to look elsewhere as to the reason for that.
#230. Interestedforeigner
"Please do not call it "ice hockey"."
Seriously? This is what makes hockey fans grit their teeth? Defining the various ways the game is played as either on ice, in a field or (as when I was growing up) down the middle of a busy inner city residential street dodging cars and pedestrians?
ref #239
It's the same with soccer - everyone knows that it is correctly known as football
The term "soccer" was coined by English schoolboys. Complain to them if you don't like our using their slang to differentiate between the two.
...American...football which entails armoured uniforms, presumably so that the players do not get hurt. Take away the protection and then see what kind of game it is.
A game full of broken bones, broken necks, paralyzed players, severe head injuries and unnecessary deaths. There's a reason that padding is required. Check out this video and then maybe you'll understand why we "armour" our players against the very real danger of death and physical destruction. Here's an interesting article on the subject which compares the inherent violence and danger of the two sports (rugby vs. American football).
And this is my last comment on the subject of sports. I have better things to do on a Sunday than engage in the ridiculous and contemptible practice of maligning other people's favorite games in order to feel somehow superior. Some sports fans really need to grow up.
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Post 243 Gunsandreligion.
If the Chesapeake was the runt,I would not have wanted to square up to its siblings.By all accounts the two vessels were an even match,but the US crew did not have time to get up to speed being new to the ship.
What an excellent name for a blog "Marcus Mad Log"that did make me smile.
Thanks..
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#251, your comparison is clearly written who played rugby as a girlie back. A forward would have something completely different to say about the scrum, ruck and maul.
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ref #246
bethpa wrote:
The Olympics is NOT about making money!!!! sigh
Its about an exchange between nations in a non violent atmosphere on the sports field. Its supposed to bring about harmony between nations.
(then what did his excellency Samarach insists on all those luxuries and his outraegous compensation? Why is the IOC so petty to sue a small restaurant for having Olympic in their name? The IOC is about money, payoffs and corruption)
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Ref 254, Magic
"(then what did his excellency Samarach insists on all those luxuries and his outraegous compensation?"
The correct spelling of his surname is Samaranch. Yes, he enjoyed the same luxuries and compensation given to most high level executives. I am surprised you object to people rising to the top and enjoying the benefits that come with it. Do you oppose capitalism?
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253. At 7:40pm on 04 Oct 2009, seanspa wrote:
#251, your comparison is clearly written who played rugby as a girlie back. A forward would have something completely different to say about the scrum, ruck and maul.
I honestly have no idea what you just said, but if you meant to imply that I played a particular position which informs my comments then: No. I have never played any contact sports as I was a tiny, delicate little girl - and am a tiny delicate little woman.
It's a beautiful sunny day and I'm out of here. Later folks!
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ref #255
saintDominick wrote:
Ref 254, Magic
"(then what did his excellency Samarach insists on all those luxuries and his outraegous compensation?"
The correct spelling of his surname is Samaranch. Yes, he enjoyed the same luxuries and compensation given to most high level executives. I am surprised you object to people rising to the top and enjoying the benefits that come with it. Do you oppose capitalism?
(I object when an executive is undeserving. And his terrible stewardship did not merit it. Also betha said Olympics wasn't about money)
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I've been away for the weekend (yes it was great thanks!) and can't be bothered to read all the posts, but here's my view for those who care.
This has nothing to do with "Brand Obama". It was entirely appropriate for Obama to go to DEnamrk to try to push his country (and city) in their bid for the Olympics, but the decsion to go with Rio is not a snub to Obama personally, or a comment on his policies or anything. There are way too many factors ....
... including that the USA has had the Olympics fairly recently, and I believe South America has never hosted the games.
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Ref 257, Magic
"(I object when an executive is undeserving. And his terrible stewardship did not merit it. Also betha said Olympics wasn't about money)"
I give you credit for consistency, but the pattern is fairly clear. You criticize Michelle Obama because, like most board members in the USA, she only attended a couple of board meetings a year. You question Barack Obama's credentials, including his Columbia and Harvard education, while raving about Sen. McCain's credentials, which include finishing second from the bottom of his class at the US Naval Academy. You repeatedly criticize or demonize Tutu, Chavez, Correa, Morales, Zelaya and now Samaranch with claims of ineptitude, despotism, corruption and just about anything you can think of, often without providing evidence to substantiate your claims.
At first, I thought your antagonism towards certain people was influenced by ideology and an overt hatred of liberal policies, but now that you include a right wing executive like Samaranch I am inclined to believe that there may be some merit to what Simon suggested a few weeks ago...
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Zvonko Plonko:
" So tell me who is reponsible for the bad things that you do? Is that also the individuals in their communities, or is that left to those nasty old bureaucrats in Washington?"
-------------------
Americans are all responsible. We are deeply and profoundly wrong - and incorrigibly evil - in everything we do.
That about covers it, does it not?
Oh, wait, I forgot the other side: Britain has reached perfection, or if not absolute perfection, then close enough.
Therefore, ridiculing Americans MUST be the next thing on the agenda for a people that has achieved such levels of near-perfection.
There: that's taken care of and essentially expresses the trendy view of Americans in Britain today.
Next question?
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ref #259 saintDominick wrote:
Ref 257, Magic
"(I object when an executive is undeserving. And his terrible stewardship did not merit it. Also betha said Olympics wasn't about money)"
I give you credit for consistency, but the pattern is fairly clear. You criticize Michelle Obama because, like most board members in the USA, she only attended a couple of board meetings a year. You question Barack Obama's credentials, including his Columbia and Harvard education, while raving about Sen. McCain's credentials, which include finishing second from the bottom of his class at the US Naval Academy. You repeatedly criticize or demonize Tutu, Chavez, Correa, Morales, Zelaya and now Samaranch with claims of ineptitude, despotism, corruption and just about anything you can think of, often without providing evidence to substantiate your claims.
At first, I thought your antagonism towards certain people was influenced by ideology and an overt hatred of liberal policies, but now that you include a right wing executive like Samaranch I am inclined to believe that there may be some merit to what Simon suggested a few weeks ago...
I am not sure about that last paragraph. But yes I object to Michelle Obama's no show job and the various Kennedys who have had no show jobs. I also am considering moving my account from Bank America because of Ken Lewis golden parachute. I despise Dennis Kyloski (sp) ex of Tyco and Madoff but I also think ACORN is a criminal group that is getting off lightly.
As far as Mandela, Chavez, and Zeylia, does the fact that I praise Uribe, Rice, Oprah the President of Chile balance that out.
I don't believe in political ideology as the factor determining my oppinions, if Obama does something right I will say it.
In the case of the Oylimpics it was a no win for some people, if he had no go some would have criticized it as wasting time on something minor. but the left would have crucified Bush in the same situation.
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David Cunard:
"It's always struck me that it is a homoerotic display; what other sport emphasises masculinity so much?"
-----------------------
The mind boggles.
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#201
Don't worry Americans are not likely to boycott the O's just because it is not going to be held in Chicago. Brazilians aren't going to be the only people there either, and the music is for everyone to enjoy, or not. The spirits will be there and and some may bring darts and sip between throws, I like darts but I don't drink. The opportunity to learn something is never wasted. Learning something like a language is actually good for oneself. It is not easy to do , although one need not learn it all. That would be something to begin, well in advance of 2016. Some like Maddow and some like Limbaugh and some would like it if Limbaugh suddenly revealed he was gay. It doesn't matter to me, to each his/her own thing. While sometimes opinionated, I leave room for others point of view. The perceptions of others toward me and my attitude are a function under their control and not mine. I wish Obama lots of luck, unless he decides to pass health care that I disagree with, then I would not wish him luck on that issue. Whether it be Obama,Clinton,Bush or whomever it is. The Olympics must have some sort of mass appeal, otherwise why would so many countries want to have them happen on their court.
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251. At 7:17pm on 04 Oct 2009, Gavrielle_LaPoste
Excellent video on North American Football. Nice to see some shots of the Edmonton Eskimos take a few down. RWRRRR!
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Ref #247 gunsandreligion and #260. TimothyR444.
My point is that as gunsandreligion stated that "the strength of America
has always come from individuals who participate in their communities,
and do good things because they want to, not because some bureaucrat in
Washington has commanded them to", my question as to who is responsible for the bad things (that the US does) is valid. I don't believe that common people anywhere in the world really have much power over their respective governments, so think it is very naive to believe otherwise. As for what the bad things may be... starting a war and drawing other nations into it under the pretense of WOMD and then changing the story later to say it's to liberate Iraq from a dictator, whilst all the time supporting a Pakistani dictator and glossing over the fact that he pedaled WOMD technology to North Career is a good example of that. It was all about oil (just like the UK's decision to release the Lockerbie bomber was). I would like to believe that this deceit lies at the hands of Georgie Dubya and his cronies and not the every day American citizens (most of which, fanatics aside, are very nice people). This is why I questioned gunsandreligion's comment.
As for Timothy's comments about Britain, I agree with most of what you say Timbo. I'm not at all proud of our history, but at least many Britons accept the faults of our forefathers and are ashamed of it. However, when I read the bigoted history lessons of MarcusAureliusII, it becomes obvious that some people in the US find it easier to blame Britain for everything, rather than accepting their part. The fact is the Britain abolished the slave trade (and slavery) way before the US did.... and yes MarcusAureliusII perhaps some British slave traders were still doing business with you guys, but don't forget that you had your own slave traders... that is one of the reasons that it took longer than hoped to abolish slavery itself in the Caribbean. Also lets not forget that even as recently as the sixties your nation still practiced apartheid. MarcusAureliusII, your bigoted attitude is the reason that I kept my last post so short, that and your calling another person 'dumb' prompted my hostility to you.
Finally, as I said I am not a lover of my home nations past either, but even more dismayed by their recent form... in that respect our government are no better than the Bush administration. This is why I decided to take early retirement elsewhere. At least the US is lucky to have thrown out the garbage and I really hope that Obama succeeds... but for Britain the alternative is worse than the current government, so I chose to retire to the same city as Diocletian did and hope against hope that they don't join the EU. So there's your answer MarcusAureliusII and it is one that you should understand, since you seem to admire Roman Emperors.
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251. Yes, seriously.
We don't call it "grass soccer", or "grass football".
We don't call it "table snooker"; "wall darts"; "water swimming"; "astroturf baseball".
What makes us grit our teeth, or want to vomit, is the IIHF.
There is a long history here that you don't understand, and which is too arcane even for this blog. Just take it as a given that hockey fans pretty much universally despise the IIHF, almost as much as many Canadians loathe and despise Gary Bettman. (Publius, if you're there, do I speak the truth on this or not?)
In Europe there is a very fine game called football, sometimes fussball, sometimes le foot, in which two teams of 11 men of remarkable physical ability, and sometimes remarkable acting ability, try to kick (or, in the case of a notorious Argentine cheat who should have been banned for life, bat with the hand) an inflated leather spheroid into a net. When Europeans or South Americans discuss this game, they speak about football, not soccer. When Americans speak about the very same game, we talk about Soccer, not football. It is a great game.
In North America there is a very fine game called football where very large men of quite remarkable physical ability (e.g., 6'-4", 265 lbs, 4.5s for 40 yds., carnivore) try to throw or carry a two pointed inflated leather ball to one end of the field or the other. In the UK this game is called "American football". It is also a great game.
Nobody has any difficulty in understanding game which is which, even though they share the same name.
So why is it that people who don't play or follow hockey have this problem of calling it "ice hockey" all the time?
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ROme Stu:
"This has nothing to do with "Brand Obama". It was entirely appropriate for Obama to go to DEnamrk to try to push his country (and city) in their bid for the Olympics, but the decsion to go with Rio is not a snub to Obama personally, or a comment on his policies or anything. There are way too many factors ....
... including that the USA has had the Olympics fairly recently, and I believe South America has never hosted the games."
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Yes, I agree that it is impossible to pinpoint one factor and it ceryainly isn't fair to blame Obama alone.
But of course it is unquestionably a snub to Obama and to Americans: that is obvious and impossible to miss. So yes, it does have to do with 'Brand Obama' (ludicrous phrase) to some extent. That is inevitable.
Yet that is only one factor and I'm sure the fact that South America has never hosted the games and that Chicago is probably not the best US city for the event are also factors.
I do think the Obamas handled the PR aspect poorly and should have kept a much lower profile. His 'apology for Americans' routine is now turning into farce; he is actually now projecting apologies for us into the future, with his attempt to turn the Olympics into one big apology for Americans. That is taking trendy self-pity much too far.
Hopefully he will change the tone of these speeches as time goes on. Other nations are also less than perfect, and the Olympics is not intended as an apology festival.
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zvonko plonko:
"As for Timothy's comments about Britain, I agree with most of what you say Timbo. I'm not at all proud of our history, but at least many Britons accept the faults of our forefathers and are ashamed of it."
------------------------------------------------
I am very well aware of the strengths and the accomplishments of Britain over the centuries. It is a great and ancient nation that is in many ways incomparable. I am also well aware that the US owes its existence and much of its life to Britain.
I am also very well aware of my own nations' mistakes and crimes. Most Americans are.
At the same time the extraordinary explosion of anti-Americanism in Britain over the last few years has had a profound and powerful impact on my view of Britain and its people. Our nations are moving rapidly apart and that trend will continue. As I mentioned in another discussion on this site - the future is one of ambivalence and uneasy economic partnership and that is all. If there ever was a 'special relationship', it is over.
I take no pleasure in acknowledging this. But there is never an excuse for bigotry, however it is expressed. It is powerful and has lasting repercussions.
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231. Magic
They eliminated softball because nobody was watching it, and it involves a relatively large number of players, large venues, and scheduling issues. Still, a poor decision. It's a good game, and it really is an amateur sport.
Who knows why they haven't eliminated Lacrosse (our official national game, by the way). Maybe they are concerned about the politics of eliminating an aboriginal game?
I was referring to the ridiculously excessive coverage of b.v., (a game that like you, I enjoy playing) but also to a number of other "sports". Does indoor v-ball get anything like the same coverage? Do you remember when the advertisers and broadcasters tried to compel the women's v-ball teams to wear skin-tight shorts and shirts? Was that at Barcelona?
At least v-ball is a genuine sport, whether indoor or outdoor. As for sports that don't get the respect they deserve, a gold in women's shotput is just as tough to win as a gold in (name one: trampoline, diving, rythmic gymnastics, synchronized swimming....). Maybe even more so, because it has the added nobility of relative obscurity.
Strangely though, women shotputters don't seem to get a whole lot of TV time or advertising endorsement opportunities.
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I just have to comment about the misinformation on gun laws and gun culture in the US. There are 50 states, and there are differences in laws and culture. When you are frowning upon gun laws and usage here you are usually talking about Texas. So, to compare Texas [having visited which I would never choose to live there] and my beloved [overtaxed and exasperating Massachusetts] please keep in mind the following.
If someone steps on your property and you say "git" or "freeze" and the person keeps coming, you can shoot him dead without repercussion IN TEXAS. In Massachusetts, you have to warn the intruder INSIDE your house that you are armed, and you have to try to escape. Only if cornered can you shoot, and you have to try to avoid fatality. Texas has capital punishment and they use it frequently. Massachusetts does not have capital punishment. I've heard anyone can get a gun at a Wall-Mart, drugstore, etc. in Texas [I don't swear to the truth of this]. It is difficult and getting more so to get or keep guns in Massachusetts, so my brother moved himself, his family and his armory to New Hampshire where he can now, fully armed, "Live Free or Die."
Why must people assume that all of America is, or has to be, alike?
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There is not much different from the release of the Lockerbie prisoner to the fact that the US is doing the same exact thing and has been for a long time now.
The Saudi's for instance are reiving protection for oil. Or better said immunity from prosecution for their part in the WTC bombing. So it is very hypocritical of the us to complain . except that it was the people of the nation that got hurt and not the people cutting the deals. It does seem like the us gave a chance to terrorists to attack, call it a freebie, for all the harm the US had done to them and also it serves as spring board for all out war terror. Invade the wrong country and then invade the wrong country again...
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ranter:
Your attempts to excuse and rationalize the Lockerbie bombing are simply appalling.
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McJakome:
Very good post on the differences between the states. That is an obvious fact that is missed by the vast majority of people outside the US.
Much of my family lives in Boston and the Cape Ann area just north, near the NH border. The differences between MA and NH are not even well known inside the US.
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ZeeVee
Zo you don't like me referring to the "Zainted one" Dominick as Dumb Nick when heZe Zo obviouZly wrong. Well iZn't that patroniZing of you. I didn't call you dumb...out of pure politeneZZ....Zo far. ThatZ my Zoft Zide Zhowing.
"Also lets not forget that even as recently as the sixties your nation still practiced apartheid."
Oh another Zelf appointed Zainted one. Even I recall seeing TV newZ footage in Britain when I was young advertiZing wordZ like "flat to let, no colourds." It waZ the very firZt time I Zaw....the letter u inZerted in a word where we don't have one. That waZ my firZt inkling that Zomething waZ wrong with the way BritZ had their headZ Zcrewed on. The eZVidence has been piling up eZVer Zince.
"MarcusAureliusII, your bigoted attitude is the reason that I kept my last post so short, that and your calling another person 'dumb' prompted my hostility to you."
Anything I can add to make them even Zhorter or eliminate them altogether? Think of all the effort it would Zave you.
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Ref 261, Magic
"As far as Mandela, Chavez, and Zeylia, does the fact that I praise Uribe, Rice, Oprah the President of Chile balance that out."
Uribe's ancestry is Basque, Michelle Bachelet's is French and Basque. Never heard you praise Oprah, but I'll take your word on it.
Your apparent hatred of Samaranch, considering your ideological leanings, is a bit perplexing to me. Samaranch was born in Barcelona, he is an economist, was a successful businessman, served as an Ambassador, and contributed to the transformation of the OIC into a bastion of capitalism that would be the envy of the Heritage Foundation. He speaks his native Catalonian, impeccable Castilian, French and is fairly fluent in English. He is also a Marquis and, a member of the elite.
Not sure what your requirements to deserve being promoted to a position of responsibility are, but judging by some of the choices we have made in recent years I would say Mr. Samaranch was over qualified for the job. Bear in mind that I make this assertion with certain trepidation since I don't think the OIC should have been turned into a materialistic institution.
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Well with all the failings of Obama this is just another Hollywood moment in Copenhagen. Meanwhile as Obama's pressing concerns of Olympics, healthcare, clunkers, stimulus, and the foot in his mouth of the Cambridge Police and Gates. Meanwhile American troops, the men and women who were put in harms way in Afghanistan are forgotten. Seems that Obama's agenda doesn't include the concern of their lives, guess twenty minutes was enough. What was the sacrifice the first lady made? Perhaps if they escorted a lost American soldier's remains home to his parents they could well learn the meaning of a true sacrifice.
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Not embracing,excusing or agreeing with the Lockerbie deal I am only saying we need to be equally disgusted with the us prohibiting the WTC investigations.
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TR444
"Much of my family lives in Boston and the Cape Ann area just north, near the NH border. The differences between MA and NH are not even well known inside the US."
You think that's something? There are places in Belfast NI where people are completely different from one side of the street to the other...but you'd never know it. With the barricades up, if you asked, people on one side, they would say about the other side "you can't get there from here." (They'd also tell you that you wouldn't want to go there anyway even if you could. And it wouldn't matter which side you were talking to, they just plain hate each other.)
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Why do some blogs comments disappear under censorship, when some offer good points? I have had blogs pulled by one censor to see them reposted by another. What is the moral imperative? Seems like the individual censors political will and PC is what governs this BBC policy.
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Hey Doctor Zhivago, the moderatos let you off the hook easy this time. They wouldn't print the exact racist words I'd seen on advertising signs in the UK on TV newsreel footage back in the 1960s.
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Brand Obama? How about Brand Harper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCbVw03zEyU
Who knew?
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Mark!
What about Canada?
Please report from Canada.
Canada is at least as important to me as the USA.
And it is a good excuse for an expenses-paid trip!
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Zvonko, the bigger a system is, the easier it is to subvert.
That's why we have a division of powers, which works some of the time.
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#251. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "The term "soccer" was coined by English schoolboys. Complain to them if you don't like our using their slang to differentiate between the two."
I was an English schoolboy and nobody ever, and I do mean ever, called football "soccer". Rugby football, first played at Rugby School (of "Tom Brown's Schooldays" fame), would often be referred to as "Rugger", but football was football. You'll need to cite some evidence to validate your claim.
"Check out this video and then maybe you'll understand why we "armour" our players against the very real danger of death and physical destruction."
But without the armour it would be a different situation. Since I've lived in the USA possibly longer than you've been on this earth, I know exactly what the American game is like, just as well as I know what the rest of the world calls football.
"And this is my last comment on the subject of sports."
We must be grateful for small mercies.
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#268. TimothyR444: "the extraordinary explosion of anti-Americanism in Britain over the last few years has had a profound and powerful impact on my view of Britain and its people. Our nations are moving rapidly apart and that trend will continue."
How on earth did you come to that extraordinary conclusion? Have you been to Britain "over the last few years"? It's almost like the fifty-first state. Virtually everything American is used and admired, whether it be fast food, kitchen appliances, GPS ("sat-navs"), television productions, films, music, and so much more. The British government supported America in both Iraq and Afghanistan although it was not a popular decision, the latter perhaps because she had been there before and, like Russia, failed, and the further loss of life considered useless. How can you possibly say that the two nations "are moving rapidly apart"? Maybe you form your opinions in the same was as MAII, from old films and television news. I think you should expand on the reasons for your statement.
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285. At 06:13am on 05 Oct 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#251. Gavrielle_LaPoste: "The term "soccer" was coined by English schoolboys. Complain to them if you don't like our using their slang to differentiate between the two."
I was an English schoolboy and nobody ever, and I do mean ever, called football "soccer".
Wikipedia to the rescue: "The term soccer originated in England, first appearing in the 1880s as a slang abbreviation of the word "association", often credited to former England captain Charles Wreford-Brown."
Though when I was a kid, my mates would bang on the door and ask if I was coming out for a game of 'footie', and kids still do. The only person I ever heard refer to 'soccer' was a teacher who came from a rugby playing public school where thet apparently didn't play football.
Now, doesn't cricket get into the Olympics in 2016? Be interesting to see what they make of that in Rio.
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281. At 01:08am on 05 Oct 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Hey Doctor Zhivago, the moderatos let you off the hook easy this time. They wouldn't print the exact racist words I'd seen on advertising signs in the UK on TV newsreel footage back in the 1960s."
Really? How could you have? You always claim a) you've never been, and b) you never would.
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284. At 02:45am on 05 Oct 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:
"That's why we have a division of powers"
Isn't that the problem at the moment? That they're 'divided' rather than 'separated'?
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268. At 11:33pm on 04 Oct 2009, TimothyR444 wrote:
"the extraordinary explosion of anti-Americanism in Britain over the last few years"
I get so fed up when people cannot tell the difference between criticism of a state's actions, or the effect of its policies and that of a people; it's merely 'anti-American' or, in another notorious case, 'anti-semitic'.
If you look through the posts on this and the Euro blog over the last year, you see a damn sight more 'anti-British' or 'anti-European' posting than almost anything else. Only marginally more than 'anti-south American' or 'anti-Mexican', though that tends to be disguised in posts purporting to be about 'illegal aliens'.
We get blamed for the American War of Independence, the First World War, the Second World War, and now, even the American Civil War. One rather begins to feel we're the Jews of the 21st century for large chunks of the American right.
I've even seen accusations MI6 is plotting to assassinate President Obama. . .
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286. At 06:28am on 05 Oct 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#268. TimothyR444:
"How on earth did you come to that extraordinary conclusion? Have you been to Britain "over the last few years"? It's almost like the fifty-first state."
Good heavens, no of course it isn't. Unless Saudi Arabia has 50 states. We all know everyone is forced to hear the call to prayer every Friday, go to the mosque, attend the amputation of the hands of 16 year old joy riders at Wembley afterwards, grow beards and wear the chador and do two years compulsory National Service in the North West Territories of Pakistan.
Everybody knows that, don't they?
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Squirreliest, believe it or not, we do occasionally find out here in the colonies what goes on in the rest of the world. And while America was airing its dirty laundry in public for all the world to see becuase it was more interested in cleaning it than in PR, those of us who cared to find out, learned that racism is a problem all over the world. It's just that in other countries its kept as a dirty little secret nobody talks about. But from what I can tell, Britain and many other countries were every bit as racist in their own way as America was. The difference now is that we've done a good bit of cleaning here and no fair minded person cannot admit that America has made enormous progress. In most other countries, little or no progress has been made. It remains their dirty little secret and when you even mention it, they vehemently deny it. I think one place dark skinned people were suprised at learning was strongly prejudiced against them was Russia especially during the supposedly egalitarian days of the USSR. First hand experience by dissident African Americans who went there expecting social justice led to their disillusionment and often return to the US even if it meant facing up to trial and punishment for crimes they'd committed before fleeing. I think Eldrige Cleaver was one of them but there were others.
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#287. squirrellist: "Wikipedia to the rescue: "The term soccer originated in England, first appearing in the 1880s as a slang abbreviation of the word "association", often credited to former England captain Charles Wreford-Brown."
Sounds apocryphal to me - and a long stretch between a soft and a hard 'c'. As we know, Wikipedia is not an entirely reliable source. Even if Wreford-Brown originated it, he would hardly have been "an English schoolboy" as suggested by la petite Gavrielle. America just doesn't care to acknowledge that their football is less popular than the game the rest of the world plays.
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290: Oh, no, not again. Must have made a facetious remark. Maybe even a joke.
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Re: Soccer or 'proper football'
I still do not understand why American Football is called football - it's not played with the feet much is it! I can understand Rugby being called Rugby Football because of the shared history it has with proper football, but the American variety has no such connection. I suppose it's those Americans trying to be exceptional again or it's a global sport they have no control over so they resent it.
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Yes. I would vote for Formula1 being reintroduced into U.S.
No, I would not support an idea of having Olympics Games in U.S. again.
In any city.
Not even if baseball and football (not 'soccer') were made a part of it.
The last Olympics which actually made money for and benefitted the local comunity was stated in 1984 in Los Angeles.
[the city hasn't ended up in the red only due to superb effort and a supreme leadership of Mr. Ueberroth.]
Here's wondering what financial and civic gains London will be able to boast about after 2012 Olympics.
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In ref. to 295: There is no need to understand why American football is called football, it just is; and it will not be changing names any time soon just because non-Americans gripe about it. I suggest you just enjoy the sport for its entertainment value rather than get hung up about something so trivial. As for your last sentence, "I suppose it's those Americans trying to be exceptional again or it's a global sport they have no control over so they resent it.", I'm going to assume that was joke.
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296. At 08:05am on 05 Oct 2009, powermeerkat wrote:
Immediate financial gains, probably none. Be nice if it made a profit, but I don't think anybody expected (or expects) it to. Though that might be more likely if the US Olympic Committee took a smaller proportion of the proceeds for itself. They take a fifth, I think.
Otherwise, as I've already pointed out, the revitalisation of a big part of East London that was once industrial, where the athlete's village becomes affordable housing afterwards, a new park and a cleaned and tidied up more-or-less forgotten river, a station in the area for the high speed trains across the Channel, refurbished tube stations all over London, and probably a few other things besides.
All of which really needed to be done, but without the Olympic bid would probably have languished. There was a lot more to the London bid than just holding the Games for a couple of weeks.
And yes, that costs, but it would have done anyway. I'm not very interested in the Olympics, but as a Londoner I'm quite pleased to see the Lea Valley out in the East getting developed instead of being forgotten as it has for a very long time. Since the war, really.
And btw, we're pretty good at getting large numbers of people around, despite our moans about our public transport system, which I suppose will never be as good as we'd like it to be. (We just keep upping our expectations, despite the fact that some of the Underground was originally built nearly 150 years ago and it's a bit difficult to change some of it.) I live in the middle of Notting Hill Carnival, and it takes about an hour to get over a million people out of the square mile of it back home all over London by bus and tube each of the two days every August.
Actually I hope we'll get a lot of fun put of it; I'm sure there'll be a lot of other stuff going on in London to keep the visitors amused as well. That's what I'm quite looking forward to. Though it could get a bit crowded, it has been with tourists all this year--every time I step out of my flat I seem to hear passers by speaking any language but English, so much so I automatically say "scusi!" or 'pardon!' instead of 'sorry!' now--so god knows what it'll be like in 2012.
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295 dceilar/297 BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
Well, it's confusing to most of the rest of the world, because it doesn't bear any resemblance to our football. Or much to 'Rugby football' either, apart from the shape of the ball, that is, what little one appears to see of it. And, as many have pointed out, most of the rest of the world has to think for a minute when we read about 'soccer'.
Why wasn't it ever called "shoulderball" or something? Sorry, but it's just, to me, like most Europeans, Latin Americans, Asians, Arabs, Persians, Chinese, you name it -- are there Inuit 'soccer' teams?--a rather peculiar, not to say incomprehensible, sport.
I suppose those of us from England, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, the Caribbean, India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (not to mention a few from the Netherlands, and now China and Afghanistan) should be grateful Americans (as in the US) didn't get their hands on cricket.
Goodness knows what 'American Cricket' would look like.
Anybody got any ideas?
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ref #275
Dominick I thought, unlike Simon of Fluff we were both beyond ideological oe ethnic sterotypes.
I admire Oprah and Urusal Burns (the first fortune 500 CEO that is an African American woman) because of their accomplishments.
Likewise my contempt for Michelle Obama is that she has had a life if entitlement since college.
Get it?
CEO and Union head greed I am color and gender blind. I want them all prosecuted.
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#297 Bien
Yes my last sentence was tongue in cheek ;-)
Americans are not only ones who incorrectly call a sport football. Australian Rules Football is commonly referred to as 'football' or 'footie' down there. They also do not primary use their feet; or have 'rules' for that matter. However, it is supposedly similar to football in the early nineteenth century (though I have my doubts).
#299 Squirrelist
Yes, American Football, Rugby, Aussie 'no rules' it's all egg chasing to me!
Is baseball their American cricket? I hear its just as dull and goes on for too long! But I like cricket and tolerate baseball - which says more about me!
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Wow, it’s nice to see that a discussion on the Olympics does not get derailed to discussing terrorism and especially Islamic terrorism!
Right back to the Olympics, well done Rio, oh and on the spelling of the country I always think it is polite to at least try and spell it the same way as the locals i.e. República Federativa do Brasil. When I looked at the list of four prospective cities I knew Rio was going to get it, the USA has had it more than any other country, Tokyo is almost next door to Beijing and the 2012 Olympics are in London so a European city was never going to get the next one. As for where Chicago came, who really cares, give it six months only a few people (almost all Americans) will remember. After all who came second to Beijing? Who came second to London (actually I do know that one)?
Really the American posters, who are getting all lathered up about this, are coming across as petulant children. Since most of the American posters don’t seem to care and have the good grace to congratulate Rio, I think it says more about the maturity of the whingers than the country they were born in! Really guys grow up, you lost live with it. You seem to have a really nice pram to live in, so stop throwing your toys out of it every time somebody does not fall prostrate and say how wonderful the US is. You know we get it, the USA is great, if it wasn’t for some (not all) American’s it would be even better. The American’s I can’t stand are the dummy throwers who blame other countries for every misfortune the USA faces, like the ones getting their panties all twisted up about the Olympics going to Brasil/Brazil. Sorry guys you are the reason some Europeans and other people look down on the USA from time to time.
Oh and finally Marcus, I noted in the previous thread you failed to update my history lesson, so I’ll ask again: Which THREE world wars did Britain loss (guess you meant lose, but you never know)?
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302. At 10:31am on 05 Oct 2009, DavidRMurrell wrote:
"on the spelling of the country I always think it is polite to at least try and spell it the same way as the locals i.e. República Federativa do Brasil."
Yippee! I've got a supporter!
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301. At 10:04am on 05 Oct 2009, dceilar wrote:
"similar to football in the early nineteenth century"
Now you remind me of descriptions of football matches before the "Association" got involved, I suppose that must be how the American variety developed, since they were more reminiscent of small gang wars in which what happened to the ball seems to have been incidental.
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302. At 10:31am on 05 Oct 2009, DavidRMurrell wrote:
"Which THREE world wars did Britain loss (guess you meant lose, but you never know)?"
Oh he won't answer. It'll depend on his mood. At a guess, it's WWI, WWII, the Cold War and/or the "War on Terror". Or the War of Independence (think sort of 'World Series' for that one) or the Napoleonic Wars. Who can tell? His history books were printed in a parallel universe. (Well, not parallel, more one at an obtuse angle to ours really.)
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Prior to the Football Association a number of rules for football were used, including those used in certain public schools such as Rugby and Eton. The Association simply set down a set of rules for what became known as soccer. Interestingly in the original rules the ball could at times be picked up in the game, though this and certain other interesting rules were quickly dropped.
As to why in Britain soccer became known as football, can only guess that it was down to it being more popular and seen as less elitist than Rugby Football, which is normally simply called Rugby. Personally not a huge fan of soccer, compared to Rugby it’s filled with over paid prima donnas, American Football seems to be a weird version of Rugby, which due to its reliance on body armour is more extreme, though personally I think Rugby is more a ‘real’ man’s sport. Which is probably the reason that while I like watching the game, you could not pay me enough money to actually play it!
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What is it with you Americans, you finally elect someone who is not a faded movie star with dementia, a snow headed, red-neck or a reject, hippie, philanderer and all you do is bag him. Stop complaining about his profile and personality and focus on the job he is doing. It seems you don't appreciate it when you may have got it right, even if it was by accident in a ludicrous, presidential election system.
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Ref 300, Magic
"CEO and Union head greed I am color and gender blind. I want them all prosecuted."
Since greed, ambition, and strict focus on materialism are among the most fundamental elements of capitalism, the alternatives are socialism or communism. I recognize the flaws of capitalism, but I prefer it to the other two.
I have no problem with executives - both business and union - being prosecuted when they are guilty of fraud, stealing or breaking the law in any way, but calling for their prosecution because they have reached the pinnacle of their careers or because they are greedy is a bit un-American don't you think?
"Likewise my contempt for Michelle Obama is that she has had a life if entitlement since college."
You are out of step with most Americans on this one. People pursue a college education to be successful, and most of us do not belittle the accomplishments and success of those that rise to the top because of their commitment, focus and hard work. Again, attending a couple of board meetings a year is the norm, and if you want to denigrate Michelle Obama for that you might as well do the same for all the board members in America.
I believe your constant criticisms of the Obama's, and Democrats in general, are influenced by an urge to undermine and destroy their accomplishments and credibility because of intense ideological bias. Similarly, your constant criticisms of Chavez elevate his political and personal stature to a level he does not deserve.
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Squirrelist #284: "Really? How could you have? You always claim a) you've never been, and b) you never would."
You forget that according to the old Marcy, USAians can completely understand Europeans, but not vice-versa. Something to do with our inability to recycle trite 1970s anecdotes I think.
#296, Powermeerkat, I'd like to see you debating the merits of the Olympics with an Australian. They're still chuffed to bits with the 2000 show they put on for the rest of the world.
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ref #308
I think you misunderstood, I do not begrudge Bill Gates, Larry Ellison Oprah on their material sucess. But they have earned it.
I denigrate Michelle Obama because she has not. I have the same contempt for Caroline Kennedy and if Jenna Bush decides to run for a major political office without paying her dues I will feel the same way
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ref #299
I suppose those of us from England, Sri Lanka, Malaysia, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, the Caribbean, India, Bangladesh and Pakistan (not to mention a few from the Netherlands, and now China and Afghanistan) should be grateful Americans (as in the US) didn't get their hands on cricket.
Goodness knows what 'American Cricket' would look like.
Anybody got any ideas?
(It would be faster paced)
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282 Over 40.
Who knew? Ah, sadly the majority seems more likely everyday.
And the song for Michael Ignatieff??
"Yesterday."
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307. Switch.
In retrospect, the reject hippie philanderer did a pretty good job. If only we could have those days back again.
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Tokyo should have won.They had the best presentation.So I don't think it a slight against the President for Chicago.The Olympics just wanted to be fair and have it in a South American country which it never has been.
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309. At 12:27pm on 05 Oct 2009, paulcrossleyiii wrote:
"You forget that according to the old Marcy, USAians can completely understand Europeans, but not vice-versa. Something to do with our inability to recycle trite 1970s anecdotes I think."
Or it's in the blood, of course.
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Magic – Now this might be an urban myth but……. My understanding is that the US did play cricket, quite well, but were banned from international competitions by Britain. Stuck in relative isolation the US instead started playing baseball. As I said could be tosh, but I have heard it suggested on more than one occasion.
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312. Interestedforeigner:
Oh I don't know; that could lose Harper a few votes, even more if he sings 'Je ne regrette rien' in Montreal, say.
(Though it was at least a shorter excruciating experience than Ignatieff reading from his autobiography, and whatever possessed him to do that I can't think.)
When does the CD of 'Harper's Greatest Hits' come out? We need plenty of advance warning, though I can't really see it making the top 40 section in the HMV shop. Or FNAC--is there one in Montreal?
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316. At 12:56pm on 05 Oct 2009, DavidRMurrell wrote:
" but were banned from international competitions by Britain"
It was the way the batsmen ran round the circumference of the pitch when a fielder caught them out that did it.
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318:
Yes, it should have been 'boundary', but I didn't want to get into lengthy explanations.
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ref #316
Absolutly no clue on Urban myth. But except for ethnic groups non U.S sports have hard time here. Cricker, Soccer Bocce etc.
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Softball was removed because most countries don't have an athletic programs for girls growing up beside swimming,soccer,track or tennis.American Women have been winning too many medals because girls are expected to play sports any sports they want.The only reason their aren't many football teams for girls is only because girls really don't want to play American football.If they did the Middle and High Schools would be forced to have a team if the numbers are there.In Fact it has been Women winning more medals for US than Men.They are trying to take some of it away.And Soccer they couldn't take away even if American girls are good at it,which is who mostly plays it here in US.We give girls growing up as much funding as boys in after school activities and it shows.
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When I was in High School there wasn't even a Boys Soccer Team because they couldn't get enough boys to want to play,so they put the money in wrestling for some reason our school always were in the running for or were State Champions for wresting and American Football.Girls were the ones playing Soccer.It too bad they took Softball Away it was nice to watch Australia,US, and Japan who all had good teams.Australia seems to be another country were girls are expected to play sports.They also seem to have women in every competition in Olympics.
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Squirrelist, Gabriele and others
Ah sport .... finally a break from politics!
Growing up in England "Soccer" was often used by rugby players to distinguish it from their kind of football (yes officially its Rugby Football, as opposed to Association Football).
The term soccer as squirrel says comes from the soc in association, but in my experience was never used on the street or in the parks - footie or football always.
In France they simply call it "le Foot" and in Italy its "calcio" (=a kick), in spanish its "futbol".
I can imagine that as the sport became more mainstream in the USA thy used "soccer" to distinguish it from the dominant form of football, that which the rest of the world calls "American".
Both words are right, and add to the richness of our world.
As a tangent can anyone explain why in (American) Football you score a "touchdown" without actually having to touch the ball down in the end zone, whereas in Rugby you score a "try" even though you have succeeded in touching the ball down across the goal line.
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306 davidmurrel
"American Football seems to be a weird version of Rugby, which due to its reliance on body armour is more extreme, though personally I think Rugby is more a ‘real’ man’s sport. Which is probably the reason that while I like watching the game, you could not pay me enough money to actually play it!"
Before the 1990s nobody would have been able to pay you to play rugby union - it was fully amateur sport played even at the highest international level by regular working men - teachers, lawyers, policemen, big Kelso farmers and so on.
The encroachment of sponsorship eventually led to the professionalisation of the game, but it's still played primarily for pleasure/pain by all but a very few of the best players in the world. Salaries come nowhere near even the mid-level for professional footballers.
Has professionalism damaged or changed the game? Go to the BBC sports blog to see that story - bloodgate!
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RomeStu – Thanks for the explanation, but unfortunately I am old enough to remember the days before professional Rugby Union and the debates at the time when players started getting paid. Regretfully my skill will never reach the point where I will even be asked to play on an amateur level, not that I would want to. My comment was more along the lines of ‘Indecent Proposal’, a millionaire offering a lot of money for me to go on a Rugby pitch, though in my athletic case it would have to be called ‘Suicidal Proposal.’
When I was at school I was okay at basketball, I am quite tall, and the slightly less masculine hockey, though in hockey I did almost manage to break my neck (I steamrollered into a much better built player, needless to say I came off worse)!
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322. At 1:42pm on 05 Oct 2009, faeyth wrote:
"When I was in High School there wasn't even a Boys Soccer Team because they couldn't get enough boys to want to play"
Never heard of 'five a side'?
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323. At 1:56pm on 05 Oct 2009, RomeStu wrote:
Squirrelist, Gabriele and others
"Growing up in England "Soccer" was often used by rugby players to distinguish it from their kind of football"
Yes, I'd forgotten that. But my school was north of places like Wigan and St Helens, and we didn't pay it much attention.
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decellar, American football doesn't have much to do with the feet? Ever see a punter kick a 60 yard field goal? Ever see a punt returned down field for a TD? I find soccer boring to watch. I think most other Americans do too. American football has many of the elements Americans like most. Invading enemy territory and capturing it in a ground war...er I mean ground game. Direct violent body to body contact with huge pile-ups. Throwing "the bomb" and other aerial attack strategies. And there are frequent periodic breaks so you can go out to the kitchen and get another cold beer or go to the bathroom without missing anything. There's also time for the instant slo-mo replay and analysis of the attack and defense strategies in real time. And then there's the halftime game with the marching bands, the cheerleaders on the sidelines in their costumes doing their dances and routines. The frequent breaks also give advertisers many chances to sell their wares which is a good reason for huge commercial interest in it. What have you got in soccer, just a bunch of people running up and down a field trying to kick a ball into a net. Basketball and hockey which have a similar idea are more exciting. Where but in hockey do you get to see grown men beating each other with sticks followed by bar room like brawls worthy of a TV western or a Belfast pub? For those who like soccer we have a much better home grown game, lacrosse invented I think by Native Americans. Similar principle but throwing the ball being held in a net at the end of a stick and catching it in another one requires far more skill and just as much runnning. No, I don't think soccer will ever become as popular here as other games. Neither will cricket for many reasons. Among them is the break for tea. We threw that into Boston Harbor and probably the game along with it, remember?
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IF I'll have some of that "train wreck" if you have a spare bud
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209 Timmmaaayyy
Back to send us all to sleep. Well done.
150 and the rest Illinoisan.
Do get lost mate.
You have not read all I have written here that is for sure.
you jump in presuming what I think. you prove why so many do not want to give americans a chance. you are not willing to give a muslim a chance and then you claim not to be racists and tell those that don't like it that way to leave.
You are as un american as the talliban you deride.
By saying america has a minority of racist idiots I am by definition saying that most are not.
Just so you can see some positive. but in reading your posts I just see writing that is embarrassing to this nation america.
you sound like you have spent time thinking and have not been brought up with the wealth of ignorance so prevalent in American" patriotic" thinking.
But yet you still exhibit that desert of morality to it's full glory.
Somehow you show a total lack of comprehension what racism is .
Yet again.
and then you wonder why the IOC would think " stuff em"
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MA punt field goal so it =Foot.
more like you're mouth.
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170
Airspace
"Biometric data for passport is the biggest requirement Eastern EUropeans face to travel to Europe. Just ask Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bosnia etc etc Thats a security issue that all countries are moving toward to."
do you think that all the people around the world are real happy to be having to give biometric data.
Do you understand how many simply do not want to give that data to the US authorities.
do you understand the resentment in Europe at having to introduce these pass ports .
It is a lot easier to just create a passport "not for the USA"
Americans do not have to give their biometric data. and the US will not share it if they did with other nations.
If you ever mention Big brother I will clobber you around the head with this comment you make here.
People are not happy giving biometric data to visit the USA.
That is a move everyone is making in order to be able to comply with the US regulations.
It is not nice to say to people " we won't hold our people to these standards but you johnny forner we will hold to those standards."
And many people dislike it.
But it is not problem to you.
great then when will american passports require the same data.
( Oh I have both so I do see the difference)
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I wasn't talking about kids playing at the park or community center,I was talking about School Teams that compete with others schools Public and Private.If you don't have enough students who play then the money goes into a different one.Hockey is always at the community center though probably because Parents flip the Bill and costs are more than others Sports because of maintaining the Ice.
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150 ILLINOIAN I LIVE IN OREGON DUDE> I HAVE DONE 15 YEARS OF RESEARCH INTO LIVING IN AMERICA.
So shut up with that assumption that people that do not like america are people that did not understand it.
I was brought up by an american and a better american than you I would say. one that never gave anyone the excuse to think Ill of America, one who denounced the death penalty as well as abortion.
Dude I said that this nation wouldn't be so racist as to not vote for Obama, that they would see past the rights lies and vote for him at a time when most of the commentators here said he will not get past the racist.
You proved me right.
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Plus I am a girl we had a team but I worked after school instead of doing Sports wanted to earn money for car.
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232 the amazing analysis of erroneous the american
"we haven't had a war fought on our territory in nearly 200 years and have never fought among ourselves in a shooting war. "
OK yes MA must be joking and having a laugh but really this is about as accurate as his predictive powers.
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306 murrel.
So rugby was not a game invented after foot ball then.
it was not a sport as so often is told that started when a player of football picked up the ball in a town called Rugby and ran on with it..
Oh my what a travesty of history that this myth was perpetuated for so long.
( dude people have been kicking heads since they started chopping them off)
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Who "takes the fifth", who doesn't take the fifth,
who takes more than a fifth.
"South Africa's former chief of police Jackie Selebi has pleaded not guilty at the start of his corruption trial.
He resigned as Interpol president after being charged with having links to organised crime and accepting bribes worth 1.2m rand ($157,000, £98,000).
The BBC's Jonah Fisher in Johannesburg says his case is seen as a test of a much-criticised justice system.
He is a senior member of the ruling African National Congress and the trial could have political ramifications.
As he left court, Mr Selebi said: "I am ready to drop bombshells."
[BBC World Serivce]
Please, remind my what major sport event is going to be staged in SA?
And, pray, tell, whether hermaphrodites can participate?
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Given that the games have been held in the US several times, and none at all in the entire continent of South America, claiming not awarding the US the Games AGAIN is due to anti-Americanism is laughable. Given the hassles for many nationalities of getting into the US (and yes, it's gotten worse than in the days when the US hosted the Olympics), and that Chicagoans (and the Japanese) didn't actually want the Games (while in Rio they wanted them very much), that they have never been held in South America, and that Brazil is the only one of the world's ten largest economies that has never hosted them, the outcome is hardly surprising.
As others have noted, Western contempt for Latin America is obvious in how the discussion is all about Obama's brief appearance and what Chicago did wrong and about European IOC votes, and practically nothing about what Rio did right, much less that Brazil is the only one of the world's ten largest economies that has never hosted them.
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Golden Devoted to Mars (Marcus Aurelius, or more accurately Aurelius Marcus) – Goodness you really do have hang up with tea don’t you? Can I suggest that you let it go? I mean it did happen a couple of centuries ago, I don’t think you will find anyone in the UK these days that really gives two hoots what happened in Boston.
You are correct about lacrosse being a Native American sport, one which apparently has quite a large following outside the US, surprising to me since I have never encountered it though I am aware of its existence. Not sure why you had to make American Football sound both so militarised and boring and at the same time, I mean really is it a bonus that you can run to the fridge for a bevy so often? Also why the insult about Belfast pubs, seems a tad unnecessary – not like you at all!
Beloved Spearman of the Seawall (that’s my name by the way mixing Hebrew, German and slightly corrupted French).
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188. At 02:47am on 04 Oct 2009, Zvonko_Plonko wrote:
I'm with you about the problems with all religions but at this time in history you are forgetting the evangelical movemnet in the USA that has created some great thinking people and some real nasty bits of work. and they go around the world "missionaries" Israel also sends out "missionaries" they are there and abundant not just Islam is trying to spread ,all are.
and the talk I have heard from the american "pastors" is sometimes as shocking as what you would hear from a mullah demanding the fall of the west.
They blindly think that they can invade another country because that country said they would fight us if we did.That was the justificationI heard on CBN
Really Pat roberson on the christian broadcast network was all up for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-CAcdta_8I&feature=related
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MArcus so I see your prediction the Irish would never vote in the Lisbon treaty was like so many of your other predictions.
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Fluffy – Yes Rugby Football is older than FA Football and yes the myth about a certain William Web Ellis starting the picking up the ball is probably just that (point of advice probably not best to mention this in Rugby itself, from experience you tend to get strange looks). Ellis is meant to have picked up the ball in 1823, the FA formed in 1863 but at that point included the Rugby football clubs, they only left in 1870 to form the Rugby Union and wrote their rules in 1870. The laws of soccer are currently determined by the International Football Association Board, which formed in 1886, though the first international (England v Scotland – the Old Rivals) was played in 1872.
There you go more information than anyone needs to know about soccer!
MAII – Yet another relevant and compassionate post, what has the World Cup and a suspected intersexual (not hermaphrodite, as she does not display secondary sexual characteristics of both genders) have to do with Rio getting the Olympics?
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For the first time since 1991, the Dalai Lama will make a trip to Washington D.C. and not meet with the president. Sources familiar with the situation say the White House is hoping to gain favor with China by postponing the meeting.
So much for boundaries of brand Obama's influence.
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The whole reason why an Olympic event is staged in a city or country is
that it is a "coming out party" for that locale. It's time for Rio to
come out. Obviously, Chicago's time has not yet come.
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fluff (is that anything like muddle?)
I said except for the Civil War. How convenient of you to leave that part out. That lasted 5 years out of 233. It was by far the worst war in American history. All of America's other wars were external including conflict with Native Americans. Now what other war in the true meaning of the word can you find in American history where Americans fought against each other? None because there weren't any. How about the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth from you for a change?
DRuM
How can I take anyone seriously who would even think of putting milk in their tea? What an awful idea.
"Not sure why you had to make American Football sound both so militarised and boring and at the same time..."
It is a military game and only some mostly on the other side of the pond and some women find it boring. Of course when the shoe is on the other foot, some would wonder how anyone could find soccer boring. Personally, rather than watch a soccer match, I'd prefer to watch grass grow.
Fluff, I admit that I did vastly overestimate the Irish. Not only have they proved themselves every bit as easily cowed as other Europeans but just as inconsistent due to being unprincipled. What I don't understand is why they didn't hold out for a major bribe from the EU for capitulating. Clearly they are not like the French at all. Now those people know how to cut a deal when it comes to selling themselves out to the highest bidder.
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fluffytale, Man why bring up Pat Robertson I can't stand that stealing non-profit stocks by selling to himself cheap and selling to another for big profits to buy a Diamond mine while taking advantage of naive but welling meaning members.The people you are talking about I call Corn field churches.They are really big in the south and in the middle of no where in the big states of the North.You don't think Americans themselves are tired of that creepy old man,people are hoping the 700 club goes away to heaven when he does.Like Jerry Falwell.We allow free expression here but we also try to ignore or sometimes be entertained by the extreme ones.They are by no means close to being the majority and although crazy they sometimes do, do good things for the needy so they can make an income for themselves at the same time.
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Mr DavidRMurrell @ 302.
About the spelling Brazil or Brasil - It's brazilians that worry some of us.
We are extremely dissappointed. The nomination of Rio for the future Olympics has upset all here on the mountain, and many around the States.
It appears that the vote was not about decency and old fashioned values. Chicago was shafted and the USA must unfortunately expect more of the same because of this IOC decision to keep the games abroad.
They talk about keeping drugs and advertizing out of sport.
America lost to Pele, an aging soccer sports star who advertizes Pfizer's viagra. Our own pharmaceutical industry worked against us by promoting the man and his message!.
Where was USA pharma support for our side? Even a Gillette backed athletic Tiger Woods without the swiss tennis gnome and french football connection could have swung it for us.
Even Marcus who tries to do his bit for every USA team through thick and thin, is not taking it lying down, while attempting to put a brave face on things. Despite his technical knowledge on a variety of subjects I guess it will come as a surprise to many that he has always had a soft spot for real American sports stars. Please be gentle with him today while he recovers from this afront by the IOC to American greatness.
Just the thought now that we ladies are expected to accept the brazilians in 2016 brings tears to our eyes. We always end up with a modicum of pain. Obama and the liberals have let us down. This should never have happened to old Bush supporters.
Blanche.
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328 marcus
Your analysis of why Americans like (American) football does your countrymen (and women) no favours.
It's all about big hits, big bangs, gaining ground by grinding the others down.... or to paraphrase "brute force and ignorance".
Where is the finesse? Where is the skill? Where is the ability of overpaid athletes to run for 45 mintes without a break?
While I quite enjoy the American game (actually I like most sport) I cannot abide the last few minutes of play which degenerate into second by second time outs and drink breaks, dragging on for 30 minutes or more. Dull Dull Dull.
There was a article a few years back suggesting that US short attention spans were the reason for the love of high scoring games like basketball and football .... although what they made of baseball I don't recall. If you think cricket is dull, baseball is unreal.
Cheerleaders on the other hand .... I'm all for them, but isn't it a bit sexist?
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316 david
"My understanding is that the US did play cricket, quite well, but were banned from international competitions by Britain. Stuck in relative isolation the US instead started playing baseball. As I said could be tosh, but I have heard it suggested on more than one occasion."
David, it may well be tosh as up until very recently the US team was playing international cricket in division 3.
It has now been banned by the ICC (not Britain) for not adopting ICC guidelines for the sport.
See this link
http://www.sportinglife.com/cricket/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=cricket/07/03/03/CRICKET_USA.html
Britain/England cannot ban any country from playing - only the ICC can do that.
It seems that historically cricket in the USA declined in the late 1800s as it remaine amateur, while in other countries (notable England and Australia) it became professional. And at the same time baseball leagues were growing as baseball became a professional sport.
Quirks of fate, not perfidious Albion.
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LolIF you hvae an article by a guy mr fawcett that tells us of rugby and america football (wimp ball) different.
pile of rubbish.
starting with the
"n rugby, the tackler (ideally) wants to wrap up around the upper legs, and drag the runner to ground. Sooner is better than later, but a few feet doesn�t matter much. In gridiron, the tackler prefers a head-on collision, "
Bull if you want to rub a guys crotch maybe but for tackeling the IDEAL is to get them low around the feet when the feet are passing each other in the stride. the biggest refridgerator will fall if traveling at any speed and their feet get bound quickly..
Pads are needed for dealing with the artificial astro turf but not for the game.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
An Olympics with the Obamas might have been a very worthwhile event; i agree with the President and his advisors that it would have been an excellent opportunity to undo much of the harm done by misguided American leadership in the past couple of decades.
However, just within my lifetime we have had Olympics at Squaw Valley, Lake Placid, Los Angeles, Atlanta and Salt Lake City. Add Montreal, Calgary and now Vancouver; remember Mexico City, besides: that is a lot of Olympic focus on North America!
The right decision was made, even though personally i would have loved to see Madrid win, and hope their excellent team don't pause in their efforts.
There are more great cities in this world than we have Olympics to host in a single person's lifetime. And that, too, is cause for celebration.
Not everything is a wretched mess... yet.
Of course, some people attacked Obama for trying. They were the same people who were "outraged" he took time to address students, and had meaningful things to say.
As for the meeting with Gen. McChrystal: actually, that was the disturbing part of the trip, for me.
By law & custom, the President of the USA is Commander-in-Chief. That's it. Nothing further to discuss.
Gen. McChrystal has taken the debate about his professional future in Afghanistan public. That was his call.
Not very brilliant thinking on his part. Certainly not definable as "subordination."
He has made the case for "civilising Afghans by being nice to them" -- as if Santa Claus, just by showing up, could defeat the Taliban, jihadism and hatred of women.
What most boggles my mind is how McChrystal thinks just a few score more thousand soldiers will make a difference. Afghanistan is not even iraq. it was never even iraq. And it is a very different kind of war zone.
it would take many millions of soldiers –– forces Nato will not commit, could not possibly fund or support –– many years to clean up and "hold" Afghanistan.
"Chaosistan!" warns McChrystal? And what exactly do we have today? Exactly that.
isn't war after all Directed Chaos? Mayhem on a massive scale?
The only relatively sure & inexpensive avenue open to Nato to defeat the Taliban and bring peace to the worst-infected parts is Advanced Weapons. Nothing is left but to use them –– use them in sufficient amounts, and with sufficient frequency, to destroy all Taliban strongholds and really put the fear of God, the fear of death & horror, into the zones that continue to vacillate between cooperation & barbarism. That would probably also include Kabul.
For some reason, Nato did not hesitate to bomb Belgrade, a European city –– but flinches at the very mention of bombing Kabul. Why? Do you have a government on your side there yet? Clearly you do not. You have a self-serving puppet who cut himself loose a long time ago & is more like Slobodan than you would like to admit.
Please look at the reality, not the sanitised, watered-down version of the reports.
Afghanistan today most resembles an infection of flesh-eating bacteria. (The bacteria would be the Talibs.) The same interventions apply, and yes, they are risky, bloody, unpleasant... and the alternative is a gruesome death.
To save costs, you must wind down the war quickly, and to do that, you must escalate the violence, not de-escalate it. After all, this is Afghanistan: where women who dare show up to vote get their index fingers chopped off. Where tribal law argues in favour of rape. Where beheading unarmed captives -- after first mutilating them every which way -- is accepted as "normal".
You think if you give them enough chocolates & computers they will change, Mr McChrystal? Are you quite sure?
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faeyth
Sorry you are right . he is appalling but then he is on every broadcast channel in the states. he is on abc at one time then NBC then fox and any other local stations.
instead of nes at noon they have Pat at noon.
Where does he make his money from,?
supporters.
they are out and about , in their at little or no cost to you electric scooters.
He has his following, but really funny is those that criticise him for being a pinko liberal.(loll I found some guy railing on him on U tube and was amused , I was feeling supportive of Pat by the end;)
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346 marcus
"Personally, rather than watch a soccer match, I'd prefer to watch grass grow."
Marcus, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that was what you mostly did while not posting here.
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Marcus – It depends on the tea, some you add milk, some lemon, some without. Actually I prefer coffee, unless it’s an Americano which is normally too weak for my tastes. Don’t get me started on the American beers you get this side of the pond, especially Budweiser, I like my Pilsner to actually have some taste so I prefer the beer of Kings rather than the gnats widdle that is the King of Beers. On whisky front Bourbon is okay, but I prefer a single malt Scotch 18 years plus, a tad expensive but good things are.
The only time I watch soccer is when I am in the pub, even then it’s a distraction. Have tried American Football, which you made seem to suggest the highlights of which are the constant breaks in game play and scantily clad nubiles flaunting themselves (I have nothing against scantily clad nubiles you understand), but the constant break in play just spoils it for me.
You ain’t going to get me on which version of football is better, the idea of overpaid grown men running around after a ball for an hour and a half (or however long American football is) just doesn’t float my boat, even with the chance of gawping at scantily clad nubiles. Only Rugby Union gets close, proper game with mostly ex-public school boys smashing the hell out of each other with the only protection being a gum shield and a box!
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#346 Marcus
Weren't Americans fighting each other during the War of Independence?
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MA 5 years and most of the males.
that was the war that killed the most americans wasn't it.?
gherkin faster paced??????(he says to what would american cricket look like)
what like you took rugby and made it last 3 hours.
gherky
"300. At 09:43am on 05 Oct 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #275
Dominick I thought, unlike Simon of Fluff we were both beyond ideological oe ethnic sterotypes."
lol yea sure.
dude have you got some of that "train wreck" for me as well?
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#302. DavidRMurrell: "on the spelling of the country I always think it is polite to at least try and spell it the same way as the locals i.e. República Federativa do Brasil."
#303. squirrellist: "Yippee! I've got a supporter!"
You may both wish to check Wikipedia and that nation's Official Tourist Site to see how it is correctly spelt in English. I wouldn't presume to correct their government.
With regard to the spelling of the names of other countries and cities, how do you follow that idea when it comes to those which do not use the Roman alphabet? I ask you, do the French call Edinburgh "Edinburgh"? No, Edinbourg. I suppose you both use Nederland for Holland and the Netherlands or Letzembourg for Luxembourg, not to mention Scandinavian countries, all of which have internationally recognised Anglicised names. It seems just a little pretentious to me . . .
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#290
squirreli list:
"I get so fed up when people cannot tell the difference between criticism of a state's actions, or the effect of its policies and that of a people; it's merely 'anti-American' or, in another notorious case, 'anti-semitic'.
If you look through the posts on this and the Euro blog over the last year, you see a damn sight more 'anti-British' or 'anti-European' posting than almost anything else. Only marginally more than 'anti-south American' or 'anti-Mexican', though that tends to be disguised in posts purporting to be about 'illegal aliens'.
We get blamed for the American War of Independence, the First World War, the Second World War, and now, even the American Civil War. One rather begins to feel we're the Jews of the 21st century for large chunks of the American right.
I've even seen accusations MI6 is plotting to assassinate President Obama. . ."
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Fed up? Really?
And I get fed up with anti-Americanism dressed up as concern for 'policy'. Don't kid yourself.
I have no idea what these weird references about blame for various wars means. It is sheer nonsense.
I have never heard of anyone blaming Britain for the 'the First World War, the Second World War, and now, even the American Civil War'. You must find some more enlightened friends....
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Stewed in Rome;
"It's all about big hits, big bangs, gaining ground by grinding the others down.... or to paraphrase "brute force and ignorance".
Where is the finesse? Where is the skill? Where is the ability of overpaid athletes to run for 45 mintes without a break?"
Perhaps if you knew more about the game you'd realize that you could hardly be more wrong. The development of innovative strategies, the study of the opposite team's offensive and defensive style, their strengths and weaknesses, the analysis of their tactics by scouts who observe them, study them, try to figure out how to beat them, the inner workings of the game would do any military strategist proud. As for the end of many games that are close, it proves that the game is actually one of seconds and inches. Hard to believe in play that lasts an hour and is played on a field fifty yards wide by 100 yards long. The skill to throw a football under pressure of being tackled by half a dozen large men coming to get you and to consistently hit a moving target 40 or 50 yards away with a bullseye dead on at precisely the time a receiver will be there to catch it is a skill no one in Europe possesses. These are the skills worth millions of dollars a year to American professional football players and IMO are much more exciting to watch than watching some guy kick a ball into a net.
Charlie Rose interviewed Bob Gibson and Reggie Jackson on his show last week. The game of baseball played at its highest level is equaly a mental game. The psychology between pitcher and batter came under considerable discussion. You can watch it on his web site. You'll learn more in 15 minutes than you probably have ever learned about the game of baseball up to now put together. BTW, the skill to throw a baseball at well over 90 miles per hour and hit a target 60 feet 6 inches away within an inch or so would be remarkable enough but when you combine it with the ability to make the ball execute a surprising curve in an unpredictable direction at just the right spot so that it is even harder to hit with a bat is also a skill beyond anyone in Europe. It's a skill that is also worth millions as is the skill of someone to even occasionally hit such a pitch 350 to 400 feet over the outfield wall. No time out for tea in that game.
I don't understand much about Rugby or cricket but what little I saw of them did not leave me particularly excited. Perhaps if I knew more about them I'd change my mind but for me, I'll take American Baseball and Football over them any day. And I'm not even a big sports fan.
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RomeStu:
#349
"There was a article a few years back suggesting that US short attention spans were the reason for the love of high scoring games like basketball and football..."
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Short attention span.....
Yes, how very true...Americans have the attention span of parakeets.
I can always count on this site for the latest, not to mention the weirdest, most fatuous and most esoteric, anti-American insults.
I am never disappointed.
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270 good example there. thanks.
268 Timmmaaayyy
"I am also very well aware of my own nations' mistakes and crimes."
Go 'n! tell us.
253 Seanspa.
" Girlie back" too true mate.
said a Lock forward
200 marbles. No I don't give a damn where they are or if they are held, but I do find the irritated americans about this quite amusing;)
165 Plonko , well said.
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grizzly when ever yuou turn up posts disappear and you start claiming you were censored.
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fluffytale
#330
"By saying america has a minority of racist idiots I am by definition saying that most are not.
Just so you can see some positive. but in reading your posts I just see writing that is embarrassing to this nation america.
you sound like you have spent time thinking and have not been brought up with the wealth of ignorance so prevalent in American" patriotic" thinking.
But yet you still exhibit that desert of morality to it's full glory."
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Desert of morality and a wealth of ignorance.
Yes, indeed - Americans are a dreadful and terrible people. Thank you for pointing that out.
Again.
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David R. Murrell:
"Magic – Now this might be an urban myth but……. My understanding is that the US did play cricket, quite well, but were banned from international competitions by Britain. Stuck in relative isolation the US instead started playing baseball. As I said could be tosh, but I have heard it suggested on more than one occasion."
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So THAT is how baseball started!
Because we were 'isolated'.
Tosh indeed. But entertaining and harmless tosh.
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353. maria-ashot wrote:
"An Olympics with the Obamas might have been a very worthwhile event; i agree with the President and his advisors that it would have been an excellent opportunity to undo much of the harm done by misguided American leadership in the past couple of decades."
While I agre in principle, you may be assuming an Obama victory in 2012.
Should Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh become president Chicago 2016 may not attract so many foreign visitors .... still it could always be like the World Series .... ie without the rest of the world!
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someone above says
"If you do not like the USA the move to another country"
how american of you.
sorry you racist (he admits he discriminates against Muslims because of their faith) but you see as an american I wish to see this nation get a little better . why don't you leave. Who says america is for the boringly thick patriots?
why can america not have those that embody the ideals of this immigrant nation.
I should say
" I am an american and I tell you if you cannot behave like an american GET OUT"
And moderators apparently MA is calling people Phlehm and you do not remove the post
but I call someone kitty and it gets removed.
do try to think about your reactions and the bias that Grizzly is trying to pretend is against his comments.
Again you are pandering to racists. there are many posts here that should be reffered to the law, becaus ein the UK and under your rules offensive racist rubbish is not to be printed.
but you do.
then you prevent someone from saying the same thing about america.
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#306
David R Murell:
"American Football seems to be a weird version of Rugby, which due to its reliance on body armour is more extreme, though personally I think Rugby is more a ‘real’ man’s sport."
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Ha! Is this another urban myth?
A REAL man's sport. This site is a wealth of weird anecdotes and references.
Well, I'm glad you put Americans in our place. No doubt you have other observations regarding our sports of equal interest?
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dceilar:
#295:
"I suppose it's those Americans trying to be exceptional again or it's a global sport they have no control over so they resent it."
------------------------------
Oh, this stuff is too good to be true...
Yes - you guessed correctly!
Americans got together in large (yet secret) groups and decided to use the term 'football' in order to be 'exceptional'.
Oh, I meant 'exceptional AGAIN'. Sorry.
And we gnash our teeth in frustration because we do not have 'global control' over it.
We are going to have to be more careful with our paranoid plans - sports division. You are obviously on to us.....
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Marcus, whoever taught you history in the United States just didn't know his business. Here is an example of your fellow countrymen falling out over taxation without representation when your new federal government came into being. I think if you paid any money for your education, like you keep saying to everyone else, you should have a refund!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion
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350. At 4:57pm on 05 Oct 2009, RomeStu wrote:
"David, it may well be tosh as up until very recently the US team was playing international cricket in division 3"
Dear me, so they were, and No 32 in the one-day rankings, too. (Above Botswana, Bahrein, Guernsey, Norway and Japan.)
I hadn't realised quite how much more widespread cricket had become. Our US readers will be interested to hear Panama, the Philippines, Costa Rica, Brasil and (oops) Cuba have teams too. As do Kuwait, Morocco, Saudi Arabia and (oops, again) Iran.
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#307
switchdenoz:
"What is it with you Americans, you finally elect someone who is not a faded movie star with dementia, a snow headed, red-neck or a reject, hippie, philanderer and all you do is bag him. Stop complaining about his profile and personality and focus on the job he is doing. It seems you don't appreciate it when you may have got it right, even if it was by accident in a ludicrous, presidential election system."
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So many insults in one post! I congratulate you on your achievement (of a sort).
It seems like I have hit upon a bonanza today on this site: anti-Americanism in every imaginable form on a variety of subjects.
There is no time to do full justice to these comments.
I will only agree with the poster and acknowledge that Americans are, indeed, the very scum of the earth. That takes care of it.
And if anyone wants clear and irrefutable evidence that the US and Europe (especially Britain) are moving further and further apart - let them look no further than this site.
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The reason why I do not like radical Islam is that want to kill all people of other religions.
What other religion is like that? I can't think of any other religions that believe it is okay to kill for their faith.
Protestant, Mormon, Christianity, Buddism, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Catholicism, ect....all of these religions state that killing is wrong.
Anyway, Chicagoans are mostly over the whole Olympics thing. The reason why people were so mad was not because USA did not get it, but mad because we got last, when Madrid (close to London) and Tokyo (close to China) got higher places, even though geographically it was not fair and a major diss.
I shouldn't have got so upset. The big diss hurt. But the truth is, USA loves all countries, except Iran, Venezuela and N. Korea. But there is a deal being worked out with USA, Europe, China, Russia, ect. on Iran and N. Korea, so I would say our least favorite right now is probably Venezuela, and that's only because of Chavez. I do feel bad for Venezuela's people, as many are complaining about how Chavez is taking their rights away. It seems that every day there is another article on how he arrests anyone who opposes him and how the people there wants a human rights commitee to come there. I do feel for the people.
But USA loves everyone, because we have people here from pretty much every country in the world. Like a diverse smorgasbord, USA is made up of so many cultures and people, we literally are made up of the world's people living in a democratic nation that stands for freedom and is the most diverse nation on Earth, according to ethnic, religious and other standards. How can I or anyone for that matter not like other Earthly people and cultures? I respect them all, but radical Islam, because they kill anyone who is not their religion and threaten freedom and democracy, more than any other group.
As for American football, it is my favorite sport. I don't know why exactly they decided to call it football, as the only kicking is the punter and field goal kicker. But it takes A LOT of skill for the QB to throw so much. A LOT. It also takes a lot of skill to come up with plays to outsmart your opponent. I have a lot of respect for the football players. And I think they deserve every penny, because football is a dangerous sport, this is true.
Americans love sports more than politics and even celebrities/movies. Sports is our favorite, just like most countries in the world. Many kids and teenagers grow up loving and participating in sports, because that is the thing to do. Many get scholarships to school to play sports. But Americans also believe that the best should win. Even if we lose sometimes, at least we know we are playing the best. That is why it feels so good to win, because you know you are the best.
So USA loves the Olympics, for the sheer sportsmanship of it, not having to do with politics or other nonsense. Sports comes down to who is the most talented and skillful. You can't really argue over it, except in gymnastics and sports with scores.
Go Rio! Good luck! Long live the USA! God Bless the USA and her allies!
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dceilar (#301) "Is baseball their American cricket? I hear its just as dull and goes on for too long! But I like cricket and tolerate baseball - which says more about me!"
Don't know what your question means, exactly, but I would say no. And doesn't cricket potentially go on much longer than any game of baseball?
Here's an interesting statistic on the worldwide appeal of the two sports: The International Cricket Council has 104 member nations; the International Baseball Federation has 116 members.
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353, maria-ashot:
I'd suggest, rather than accept what people say McChrystal thinks, or think he thinks, you and others read his speech to the Institute of International Strategic Studies in London. You will find the link to the pdf half-way down the page.
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DRMu, once I had my first sip of Samuel Adams Boston Lager beer in 1989, that was the only kind I've liked ever since...except for the Boston Ale which is also excellent. Every other beer has been far less pleasing to me. American mass produced beers like Budweiser, Miller, and Coors tastes to me like cat pee. I can taste what seems like corn filler in Miller. I have no fondness for British or Irish beers either and so called light beer is a joke. I used to enjoy Belgian beer but haven't tasted it in a very long time. Heinekin is OK but a little bitter. I also can't understand how people can enjoy beer that isn't frosty ice cold. BTW, I think Samuel Adams beer is made in a German style. That would be my next best choice if I couldn't get Sam Adams. Probably Becks. St Pauli Girl was also good as I recall. Imported Lowenbrau dark was good too...until it was made domestically under license by Miller close to 40 years ago. They ruined it.
If I drink more than one cup of tea a year, it's a lot. I've gone several years without ever having drunk tea and it hasn't bothered me a bit. I also like strong coffee but not coffee made from burnt beans. I detest Starbucks and didn't drink it when I had it available for free. IMO when you burn coffee beans the way the French do, the result is a bitter witches' brew. There is no such thing as American coffee, at least not in any quantity. There may be a small amount grown in Hawaii. The best coffee is made from dark roasted Arabica beans grown in Columbia. I haven't tasted Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee but it has a very good reputation. You can brew coffee as strong as you like it. I prefer mine dark and strong with cream and sugar. Of the instant's I used to like Maxim freeze dried coffee but Gemeral Foods took it off the market they told me because it was too expensive to make. We keep getting this Sweedish Gevalia coffee and it's okay. No better than Folgers IMO. The best coffee I ever drank was on the cruise ship The Royal Viking Star. Surprisingly, Duncan Donuts has very good coffee too. I usually drink at least 4 to 5 cups or more a day and never decaf. Recent medical studies suggest coffee is good for you and may help ward of alzheimer's disease.
Just broke my self imposed ban on European goods and bought another bottle of Glenlivet 15 year old French Oak Cask. It is my favorite distilled alcoholic beverage. I could drink it like soda pop all day. Took an Irish American 20 years ago to teach me the best way to drink Scotch.
fluff, still stuck on the Civil War? It was very interesting. Until Gettysburgh, it wasn't certain that the South wouldn't win. Recently within the last few years it occurred to me that there was no legal reason why the South could not secede from the union. Perhaps fighting the war by the North was illegal. Nobody seemed to care.
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timmaayy.
just to let you know. none of your posts had any of that self criticism that you said americans are familiar with.
because though I do believe most are not racist idiots I do believe that most are not very good at accepting any form of critique.
but then you never take offence at those that keep putting your country down.
Oh and it was MA that said Britain started every war, incase you missed his post (very sensible of you to skip his posts)
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TimR444
"Short attention span.....
Yes, how very true...Americans have the attention span of parakeets."
This is why we invented and like nuclear war so much. You can go out, blow up the whole world, and be home in time for dinner.
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Illinoisan (#374) "What other religion is like that? I can't think of any other religions that believe it is okay to kill for their faith."
Whether they believe it or not, officially, Christians have certainly done a lot of it. Ever heard of the Crusades?
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374 Illinoisan. I did refer your coment (i' admit) because you keep saying that muslims are the only ones that say it is OK to Kill others.
Many many muslim clerics do say peace all the time, you do not visit those mosques and Fox doesn't either.
the bible is full of Tooth for tooth comments and the neo christians of america have kept the battle cry of the crusades going (as GW said).
Your comments are based only on the ignorance in you not the evil in others.
Get a grip. Lords resistance army is not muslim.
Your comments are racist and should be struck so as to not have people waste their time telling you you are what you claim you are not.
If you continue to say such bigoted comments I suspect others will join in complaining about your comments.
you do not engage in calling individual people names but you call whole races names and you use that to excuse the death of their people for t he protection of you from your paranoid fantasies
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come on Timmayyy some of that self critique .
you claim to know america does wrong but then try your best to say it should be ignored because shouting "I'm an american" is more important than trying to fix the nation you live in.
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362. At 5:43pm on 05 Oct 2009, TimothyR444 wrote:
Yes, how very true...Americans have the attention span of parakeets.
Really? How long is that?
(Apparently we know them as budgies.)
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Who cares where the Olympics are hosted,What makes me mad is not getting to watch all the games unless you have cable.And the evening rap ups are stupid on NBC.can't even watch them from Canadians Web sites because they block you,who have better coverage,Why does it matter if I am Canadian or not We have McDs and Tim Hortons too.And NBC's Live Web broad casts sucked,half the time wouldn't even load right.Had to use Rabbit Ears to get Canadian Stations who didn't switch to Digital yet.I have Cable again but sometimes I get angry at rate changes and Boycott Comcast,till husband reorders it.I hate Cable Companies.
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Even though Brand Obama has been tarnished a bit by this Olympics fiasco, I would rather that Obama given it his all, rather than not tried at all. At least he made the effort. I don't know that anyone could have asked for more. Obama is brave and bold, not scared of anyone or anything.
Of course, me personally, I would not have taken Oprah. She is overbearing at times and pretty full of herself. I am not a big Oprah fan. She might have actually turned off the judges.
But Brand Obama is also Brand USA, what can we say? Maybe the world wants less of USA right now, but that does not mean the USA is less. Even with all that's happened with our economy, USA still has a lot going for it. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, goes the old saying. The good ole' USA will only get stronger and tougher. There are plenty of Patriots still here, believe me. Plenty of people who believe in doing the right thing, even when it is hard and difficult. But to do the right thing, because it is right.
This whole economic recession has made Americans less reliant on other countries' goods and more reliant on ourselves. We are examining our health care system and many other issues more closely. Perhaps this all was just a matter of time.
Maybe the recession happened for a reason, to help Americans realize what truly matters, which is family, values and freedom. Also, Americans seem to be caring more about people than they do objects. It's time we get rid of our silly materialistic ways. (Well, for the most part)
USA may be down, but she's not out. Even if other countries rise and become more powerful, USA will always be a power player. You can guarantee it. USA's steely Patrioticness will always be in full force.
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MAII (#377) "Recently within the last few years it occurred to me that there was no legal reason why the South could not secede from the union. Perhaps fighting the war by the North was illegal."
Secession is not what started the shooting war. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that secession was legal. Then you have a confederation of foreign states that fired upon a military outpost of the United States (Fort Sumter). Not surprisingly, they got a military response, and they lost.
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MA, Actually, an American didn't invent nuclear weapons, although they were developed first in the USA. It was Albert Einstein.
To GH, I am talking of modern-day religions. All modern day religions, except for radical Islam, agree that killing others over religion is wrong. Radical Islamists kill people who don't believe in their religion.
That is why Islamic people, as well as people from all religions, but especially Islamic people should teach that killing others for religion is wrong.
That is what separates radical Islam from every other religion out there. No other modern day religions support killing of people of other religions.
Islam is in itself a very, very strict religion. It is too strict for most and that is exactly why there will likely never be an Olympics in an Islamist country, as their laws as so strict that they do not accept freedom of choice and democracy of other nations.
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Illinoisan (#387) "Actually, an American didn't invent nuclear weapons, although they were developed first in the USA. It was Albert Einstein."
This is utter nonsense, but so far afield from the blog topics that I won't try to refute it. The history of the development of nuclear weapons is pretty thoroughly documented, and I would refer interested persons to the books by Richard Rhodes, in particular.
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#373. TimothyR444: "if anyone wants clear and irrefutable evidence that the US and Europe (especially Britain) are moving further and further apart - let them look no further than this site."
Perhaps you would answer my question at #286 - you stated as fact Our nations are moving rapidly apart and that trend will continue and I asked "How on earth did you come to that extraordinary conclusion?"
Suggesting that posters here are typical of British thought is just as silly as yours being considered typical of American opinions. After all, this is a blog and perhaps less than a hundred people contribute to it.
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# 362 TimothyR444 wrote:
"I can always count on this site for the latest, not to mention the weirdest, most fatuous and most esoteric, anti-American insults.
I am never disappointed."
I can always count on TimR444 to whine on endlessly and repetitively about how much foreigners, Europeans, and especially Brits hate the US.
I am never disappointed
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374. Illinoisan wrote:
"The reason why I do not like radical Islam is that want to kill all people of other religions.
What other religion is like that? I can't think of any other religions that believe it is okay to kill for their faith."
Try 14th century Christianity for starters .... convert or die, heretic!
Oddly Islam is in it's 14th century right now ..... will they be as enlightened as modern christians in 600 years?
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#372. squirrellist: "I hadn't realised quite how much more widespread cricket had become. Our US readers will be interested to hear Panama, the Philippines . . "
Shouldn't that be Pilipinas . . . That's what it is in Tagalog. You really must be consistent!
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377 Marcus
"American mass produced beers like Budweiser, Miller, and Coors tastes to me like cat pee."
How un-American of you ... be careful or you may end up on one of those lists.
By the way we have finally found something to agree about - the excellence of Sam Adams beers.
"There is no such thing as American coffee"
I believe the person who wrote about "american coffee" was referring to the custom in Italy of calling an espresso with added hot water (a long espresso) a Caffe Americano.
This is not an insult - it began in Naples in 1944 when many GIs on R&R in the city did not like the strong Italian espresso and asked for extra hot water to dilute it, and the nickname used by the local barristas stuck!
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# 373 TimothyR444 wrote:
"And if anyone wants clear and irrefutable evidence that the US and Europe (especially Britain) are moving further and further apart - let them look no further than this site."
This is a remarkable leap of logic, even by Timbo's standards.
1. It assumes that any remark here that is in any way critical of the US - and of course such remarks are often made here by Americans - represents a tidal wave of anti-American hatred
2. Even if that were true - which it isn't - it also assumes that the relatively small number of people who post here [a self-selecting sample] are automatically representative of some 60m Brits, 300m Yanks and 700m plus Europeans
Frankly that is about as logical as deducing from Tim that all Americans have a paranoid obsession with anti-Americanism. Or deducing from MAII that all Americans are misanthropic, xenophobic, arrogant megalomaniacs. Or deducing from MK that all Americans are illiterate.....
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377 marcus again
"I could drink it like soda pop all day. Took an Irish American 20 years ago to teach me the best way to drink Scotch."
Some hangover you'll have.
Does this mean you believe the best way is over ice? Like soda pop?
Scottish whiskey producers began cold filtering their brew for export to the USA because the essential oils left in the whiskey go cloudy with the cold and this was damaging export potential. Sadly this process became standard for all scotch.
Today there are very few unfiltered scotches around, but try the Te Veag (spelling? it's Gallic) distillery on Skye for excellent prize winning scotch, but not to be drunk over ice!
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385. Illinoisan wrote:
"Even though Brand Obama has been tarnished a bit by this Olympics fiasco, I would rather that Obama given it his all, rather than not tried at all"
It is interesting to imagine the headlines had Obama NOT gone to Denmark and then Chicago lost the bid....
Obama doesn't care about his own city!
Why didn't he do more?
Stuck up elitist stays in Washington trough while Chicago suffers humiliation!
and countless variants.
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385 illinoisian
"The good ole' USA will only get stronger and tougher. There are plenty of Patriots still here, believe me. Plenty of people who believe in doing the right thing, even when it is hard and difficult. But to do the right thing, because it is right."
Are these the people fighting for universal healthcare because it is right that everyone has access to good healthcare
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#11 Grisha54 Post:
Would you PLEASE find something else to call us "right wing nuts" besides chimps? That noun is becoming extremely boring. Actually, it's a little longer, but I really prefer what Obama whispered to his snotty elitist political contributors: Bitter white people clinging to their guns and religion. Has a sort of nice ring.
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#370 Timmayy
Did I touch a nerve sweetheart?
My comment was tongue in cheek but now . . .
#375 GH
Here's an interesting statistic on the worldwide appeal of the two sports: The International Cricket Council has 104 member nations; the International Baseball Federation has 116 members.
Good work. How many people play the sports though?
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387 illinoisian
"That is what separates radical Islam from every other religion out there. No other modern day religions support killing of people of other religions."
RADICAL ISLAM is not a religion.
Islam is a religion, and certain self-proclaimed adherents of it want to kill westerners.
The IRA and MAFIA were all good catholics .... or were they "radical catholics".
Christian doctrine is twisted to suit the end user of the product (sorry "church"). Islam is also twisted to suit the needs of the jihadis.
Imagine no religion ......
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398
"Bitter white people clinging to their guns and religion."
He's our Gunsnreligion - we may not always agree, but his contributions are always interesting ... so stop clinging to him and let him speak
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394. At 7:53pm on 05 Oct 2009, john-In-Dublin wrote:
"Frankly that is about as logical as deducing from Tim that all Americans have a paranoid obsession with anti-Americanism. Or deducing from MAII that all Americans are misanthropic, xenophobic, arrogant megalomaniacs. Or deducing from MK that all Americans are illiterate....."
Oh, you mean I shouldn't deduce all thatt? Spoilsport!
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393. RomeStu:
Well I think diluting Italian espresso with hot water is definitely an insult--to a good cup of coffee.
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illinoian You go on and on about muslims killing.
you suggest they are the only religios radicals.
Have you ever watched the NEWS?
did you hear of this little spot called Israel. Did you ever hear of the right wing settlers(oh the right wing nutter who wants us to try some other names.. that's easy but the mods wouldn't allow it)
They seem to be pretty strict themselves. No using an Elevator/lift on the sabath. thats one of the hot discussions there at the moment.
Do search a bit harder. maybe you were brought up in a vacuum , but not all the world was
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RomeStu (#393) is correct about caffe Americano. I disagree with squirrelist that it is an "insult." One can like a simple straight espresso, as I do, and still like an Americano at times. I like Americano in the morning, cappuchino in the late morning, espresso machiatto in the afternoon, doppio espresso in the late afternoon, and espresso or espresso "corretto" after a nice dinner.
"All roads lead to Rome," as someone once said.
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dceilar (#399) "How many people play the sports though?"
I don't know how you would determine how many nonprofessionals play either cricket or baseball. In the US, practically any company picnic for a sufficiently large company would have a softball game. (Softball is a variant of baseball for casual play; few amateurs play hardball.) Is cricket played casually by people who are not members of organized leagues? Is there a simplified form of the game for this purpose?
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I meant "capuccino," of course. Or are there two p's?
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Yeah, actually there are a lot of people fighting for health care, because it is the right thing to do.
Sadly, our health care system is based on money and how much corporations/ healthcare providers/ect. make off of people. They care more about money, than they health care. That is what has got to stop!
I wish that we had universal health care, like GB and Canada. Even though there are flaws in your system, too, at least everyone is covered and most all are helped. No one goes bankrupt and no one is FORCED to get insurance (infringing on our rights by threatening us to pay higher taxes, if we cannot afford health care insurance)
How is it that health care costs so much less in GB and Canada? Is it the procedures are less expensive or is is the insurance, because so many people have sued health care staff?
I have wanted our health care to change for so long, but I do not believe Obama's health care will lower costs, make health care affordable, or even help the ones that need it most.
One of the major issues in the health care reform bill is the mandatory health care requirement. The bill states that the govt. will help people who cannot afford health care costs with subsidies. But what if the subsidies are not enough? It means that there will be people who cannot pay the subsidies, which the govt. will mark as "non-compliance." Then, the govt. will tax that person or family for it, even though they cannot afford it. Obama's health care plan pretty much only helps the super-poor and super-rich. It does not help anyone in between. Instead, President Obama's health care bill will tax the poor and middle class, who will not be able to afford health care, even with a small subsidy.
In the USA, Obama's Brand is being hurt more by the health care bill than anything else.
You ask the average American if they support his health care plan and the majority say No! (even in Illinois, his Senatorial State- many of us are against the health care bill)
The truth is, Obama is pushing the health care plan against the will of the people. His health care plan will punish middle-class, more than anyone else, even though that was who he was supposed to help.
If his health care plan passes, I know for a fact, many, many people who voted before for him would not vote for him again. He would lose a large portion of his former support. When he was running for office, he told us that he would never tax or fine people, who could not afford health care. Turns out, he lied to us, straight-up.
So at home, Obama's Brand is made more and more unpopular every day by his health care bill, even to Dems like myself. It will likely pass and make millions of Americans angry at him, Congress and Dems as the costs will still not be affordable, people still won't get health care and Obama will tax/fine us for being poor.
If Obama took out the mandatory requirement and simply focused on making health care affordable, I would 150% support him.
But this mandatory requirement is wrong. He is blaming the uninsured for being poor, which is ridiculous.
Everyone knows the subsidies the govt. is offering will not cover the cost of health insurance and the people who are uninsured now will still be uninsured, with his health care bill.
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Americans should have given some other city's name.Chicago never had any chance among the great cities like Madrid or Rio or Tokyo..Honolulu would have been a better choice. It has an exotic touch to its name. Tokyo, Madrid, Honolulu, Rio.
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RomeStu wrote, "If you think cricket is dull, baseball is unreal." If you were to attend a Redsox vs Yankees game in Boston, you might change your mind. Or possibly not, the interest is in the stands and in the tradition, the angst of the 80+ year curse finally beaten.
For the history buffs, the rivalry between NYC and Boston goes back to a real war between British Boston and Dutch New Amsterdam. Then they [New Yorkers] stole the name Yankees from us, which name should by rights only apply to New Englanders [misapplied by confederates to all northerners and by Europeans and Brits to all USAmericans-BTW Don't call a Texan or Southerner a Yankee].
So there you have it a rivalry steeped in bloody tradition older even than the game of baseball.
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Israel and Palestine do not get along. Palestine fires rockets at Israel, who fires back. Even though Israel has more weapons, Palestine fires rockets at them anyway, knowing that they are asking for a fight.
That is one region of the world, involving two small countries.
But radical Islam has killed thousands of people in England, Spain, USA, Egypt, China, Russia, India, Netherlands, and attempted/threatened to kill people in Austraila, Germany, Canada, and other peaceful nations.
Radical Islam is a religion and Islamists need to start rooting them out of their communities, if they want the world to accept/tolerate Islam. Sure, there are radicals of every religion, but the widest-spread movement is Islamic radicals, who threaten freedom and democracy more than any other religious organization, radical or not. Islamic radicals want to kill anyone of other religions.
Islamic radicals do not value any human life, but their own. They also do not value democracy or freedom. They are the ultimate threat to this world. If Islam does not take a stand for themselves, the Islamic terrorists will make a stand for them.
There may be a few modern day Christian radicals, but Christian churches openly say that killing people of other religions is wrong. I have never heard any Islamists say that, except the leader of Somalia. He is one brave guy.
That is why Islamic radicalism is wrong: it is the one modern-day religion that wants to murder every other religion. They are modern-day Nazi's. If Islam wants to separate itself from Islamic radicals, they have to speak out. Otherwise, no one knows who is who.
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#405. GH1618: "I like Americano in the morning, cappuchino in the late morning, espresso machiatto in the afternoon, doppio espresso in the late afternoon, and espresso or espresso "corretto" after a nice dinner.
"All roads lead to Rome," as someone once said.
That really should be Milan, where Gaggia invented the espresso machine. Anyone would think it was a relatively new invention; I remember as a very young man that espresso was readily available in London fifty years ago. In fact a friend and I actually considered opening a coffee bar in Soho to attract those who did not frequent The Coffee House in the Haymarket, now a McDonald's. Starbucks simply re-introduced the concept at grossly inflated prices.
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According to my own personal opinion, countries which dont grow have never grown and cannot ever gorw coffee beans shouldnt drink cofcfee..A simple cup of coffee in the middle of sahara desert or in sudan or in eithopia gives more pleasure than a cup of coffee sitting inside a starbuck coffee shop or an expresso cup in a five start hotel.
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David_Cunard (#412) "Starbucks simply re-introduced the concept at grossly inflated prices."
I would say "popularized" rather than "re-introduced." I had my first espresso in Greenwich Village (NYC) in 1965, where it had been available for many years. That is still the standard for me, and it is impossible to match today, now that everyone is drinking it. Starbucks started in Seattle (where I lived at the time) sometime in the 1970s, and their product was roasted coffee generally, not mainly espresso. Espresso began to catch on everywhere in the US in the 1980s. I imagine the automatic machines had more to do with its consumption becomeing widespread than anything else.
Ironically, it is nearly impossible to buy a proper capuccino in Seattle, thanks to the Starbucks influence. I am fortunate to be able to get it from a place that was around long before Starbucks, and understands the nuances of the concoction.
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406. At 8:52pm on 05 Oct 2009, GH1618 wrote:
"Is cricket played casually by people who are not members of organized leagues? Is there a simplified form of the game for this purpose?"
Yes to the first, though there's usually some amateur organisation to arrange matches; no to the second. Except when it's kids playing for fun, whether it's in Mumbai or Manchester, but then the rules are the same, you just adapt a bit. So you agree between you where the boundary for a four or a six is according to the space to avoid trees, walls or whatever might be in the way. Or to avoid breaking windows, always a bit of a problem, which usually results in a hurriedly abandoned game, a 'lost ball' and a draw. Lost a very good (and our only) cricket ball once because it was hit into the next field--definitely a six--and none of us fancied risking the bull in it to get it back and finish the game.
The wicket might be three chalk lines on a wall, which is how we often played when I was a kid. And you don't need to play two teams of eleven, just as many as you can get, that doesn't change the rules of the game. That's why it's so popular, especially in India, because kids only need six thin sticks, two planks and a tennis ball if you can't get a real leather cricket ball, bats or stumps. Much the same with football, you just need four sticks, jumpers or shirts--stones or carrier bags will do--for the goalposts and a ball.
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406 GH
"Is cricket played casually by people who are not members of organized leagues? Is there a simplified form of the game for this purpose?"
Yes - there are 2 I know of.
One's called (rather strangely) French Cricket - played without stumps. The batsman simply defends his own legs with the bat and tries not to get caught or lbw. Great fun for kids in the park.
and the other is tip'n'run (or hit'n'run) - closer to the real game but any marker will do as stumps (jumpers/sweaters on the the ground for example) and if you hit the ball you have to run ....
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#415, and you don't need an equal number of officials for the game either!
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405 GH
"I like Americano in the morning, cappuchino in the late morning, espresso machiatto in the afternoon, doppio espresso in the late afternoon, and espresso or espresso "corretto" after a nice dinner."
I don't suppose you sleep much then!!! ;-)
Funnily enough Italians, who are flagrant disregarders of laws in general, are almost religiously strict about food/drink rules and conventions ...
Thus cappuccino is for breakfast - and never for after meals.
caffe (espresso) is for late morning or after meals (aids digestion they say)
And caffe corretto is a great way to disable the caffeine in the late night after dinner espresso. They call it the "ammazza caffe" which means "kill the coffee".
I have never in 9 years living in Rome seen or heard of an Italian order a doppio espresso.
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413. colonelartist wrote:
"According to my own personal opinion, countries which dont grow have never grown and cannot ever gorw coffee beans shouldnt drink cofcfee"
Are you an anti-capitalist?
Should Canadians be denied pineapples?
I suggest you stick to your opinions and never drink coffee in the USA, but leave the rest of us to it.
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#415 Squirrellist
The wicket might be three chalk lines on a wall, which is how we often played when I was a kid.
Those were the days. We used play with a wet tennis ball so we knew if it hit our stumps. Crazy days ;-)
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RomeStu (#418) "I don't suppose you sleep much then!"
Most people think, incorrectly, that espresso contains more caffeine. Actually, it contains less than most brewed coffee. The principle of espresso is that by brewing quickly under pressure, most of the flavor components (esters) are extracted, but proportionally less of the alkaloids (caffeine), because the latter are less readily soluble in water.
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421 GH
You misunderstand me - I was referring to the list of coffees that you consume at different times of the day ..... it was light-hearted and appears to have missed its mark. I don't really think think you drink that much coffee each and every day.
PS you have good info on the lower caffeine of expressed coffee over brewed ..... hence little or no caffeine addiction in Italy.
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416. RomeStu:
I'd completely forgotten about 'French cricket'.
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422. At 11:25pm on 05 Oct 2009, RomeStu wrote:
421 GH PS you have good info on the lower caffeine of expressed coffee over brewed ..... hence little or no caffeine addiction in Italy.
I didn't actually know about that. I only drink espresso, always assumed it was the Italian genes, didn't know I was avoiding caffeine addiction too. Now I can contradict all those people who keep telling me how bad coffee must be for me.
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246. At 6:24pm on 04 Oct 2009, bethpa wrote:
"I loved it when the Olympics was in Norway and THEY cheered every player when they went over the finish line..and cheered them all as they were competing...because the Norwejians had the Olympic Spirit."
Yes, and because the Norwegians refused to kow-tow to the IOC bigwigs as if they were 18th century French Royalty the Olympics will never be held in Norway again.
The fans and athletes loved the Norwegian games. The IOC hated them.
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317. At 1:20pm on 05 Oct 2009, squirrellist wrote:
"312. IF
Oh I don't know; that could lose Harper a few votes, even more if he sings 'Je ne regrette rien' in Montreal, say."
Stephen Harper as Edith Piaf, defending oil sands development.
Too much. LOL!
"Rien,
de rien ...
Non,
je ne regrette rien ...
Ni le bien
qu'on m'a fait,
ni le mal.
Tout ça m'est bien egal!"
She was some singer.
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374. At 6:09pm on 05 Oct 2009, Illinoisan wrote:
"The reason why I do not like radical Islam is that want to kill all people of other religions.
What other religion is like that? I can't think of any other religions that believe it is okay to kill for their faith.
Protestant, Mormon, Christianity, Buddism, Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Catholicism, ect....all of these religions state that killing is wrong."
__________
Well, for starters, while some Christians may disagree that Catholics are Christians, most people regard Protestants Catholics and Mormons as all being Christians. Lots of us think that the Church of Latter Day Saints is another name for the Mormons.
Second, while we may all believe in peace and brotherhood now, it was militant, intolerant, radical Christianity that drove the tolerant, sophisticated, and, for the times, pacific, Moors (i.e., Moslems) out of Spain.
It isn't Islam that is the problem. It is the ideology of hate, whatever form it takes - Spain at the time, the Nazis, Islamic hardliners now, the National Front, the Klan. There has never been a monopoly on hate, nor a shortage of people willing to be drawn to it. It can have a thousand forms.
But it is always the same disease.
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427. Interestedforeigner:
For a moment there, I goggled in disbelief. . .
Illinoisan merely confirms something I've been suspecting for a long time, that a very odd variety of 'Old Testament Christianity' has appeared in the USA, whose Bible appears to omit the Pentateuch, and, very strangely, relies more on the 'Second Coming' in Revelations than in the existence of Christ the first time round.
What do you think we should call this religion? I propose a short version of 'Christianity': 'Inanity".
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And now about boundaries of David Letterman brand, you know the clown who repeatedly sexually exploited his staff (and cheated on his newly-wed wife) while repeatedly viciously crticising Sarah Palin's family?
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DC – Sorry but I don’t check the boards when I am away from the office. I use either Brazil or Brasil because I on rare occasions do business with Brazilian banks and use the Brazilian financial regulator. As for Nederlands yes I use that over Holland or Netherlands, partially because I speak a little bit of Dutch. I also communicate with Poland every day, in Polish, so use Warszawo rather than Warsaw. Why do I use Polish when speaking with Warsaw, because it is polite and they appreciate the effort, even when I get the spelling and syntax wrong. As for the Scandinavian countries, no I don’t mostly because few people know the correct names, also I am not sure the correct pronunciation for Finland.
Why would the French use Edinbourg, Edinberg is the American pronunciation of the name, not the British, like many English and Scottish names (not going even going to bother to include Welsh since that is a different language) it is not said the way it is spelt, hence the American mangling of Worcestershire source.
Timothy – How you read anti-Americanism into irony is beyond me, I understand that sometimes we Brits can be slightly more ironic than many non-New Englanders can get, but I thought the use of ‘real’, rather than real was quite clear.
Marcus – There are not many British lagers, all really imports, Australian, European and American. Prior to the 1980’s British drinkers preferred ales and bitters and to most real ale enthusiasts the idea of drinking them cold is sacrilege, hence the jokes about warm British beer. A friend who strangely did go to Boston said that American micro breweries were quite good and I have in a very expensive bar (not pub) drunk American red ale which was okay.
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I am in Kentucky, at work.
Five minutes ago a friendly old guy came into my workplace and after talking for a few minutes he asked where I was from (as most Brits in America will attest occurs at least a couple of times a day). He told me his parents came over from Wales in the 1920's and then asked what I though of America. He came across as a decent, open-minded old guy so I asked "Can I speak freely, as many Americans become fantastically upset upon hearing anything approaching negativity of the USA", he smiled and said "of course" (obviously, who says "no" to that rhetorical question?).
I told him that in my opinion America has the potential to be everything it claims to be (i.e the greatest country in the world) but falls short in many ways because too many people have no real willingness to learn anything outside of their own daily existence, no sense of global perspective and can't really see the woods for the trees on many issues. Asking for examples i stated the healthcare issue and gun laws, (or lack thereof) fully aware that i was talking to an old white guy in Kentucky. He ignored my health care comment and explained more than once that "the right to bear arms" was "in our constitution" I stated that it was an ambiguously worded and very old "ammendment" (ammendment meaning at some point it was changed and therefore evident that changes to previous laws/rulings/decrees/policies could be made) from an almost alien period of time when there was fear of tyranny, monarchs and governments who no longer pose the same threat to an advanced, fully-functioning democratic & civilized country with police forces et al who are armed with modern weapons the likes of which would not have been percieved 200 years ago nor the notion that every Tom, Dick and Harry would be shooting each other over the most minor of (perceived) infractions.
He looked at me like I had burst into his house on Christmas day and p*ss*d on his kids before reminding me once more it was "in our constitution" and then bidding me farewell. In 4 years (in 11 different southern/heartland/mid-west states) this has become a pretty frequent occurence although I am slowly learning to bite my toungue, but when people come to me wishing to start an "open" conversation that is what I engage in.
I have thrown this little exchange into this debate as (like usual on these boards) I have read many posts from Brits experiencing the same mentality from Americans as I have, although admittedly the Americans on here are more open-minded than I have personally experienced (but the fact they are even looking at a BBC website never mind registering and commenting probably explains why)
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371. At 6:05pm on 05 Oct 2009, ukwales wrote:
Marcus, whoever taught you history in the United States just didn't know his business. Here is an example of your fellow countrymen falling out over taxation without representation when your new federal government came into being. I think if you paid any money for your education, like you keep saying to everyone else, you should have a refund!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shays'_Rebellion
Sorry to but in, MAII doesn't seem interested in answering. I am because this happened here in Massachusetts, and because I used to believe it was good for the US to crush incipient revolts, whereas I now wish Shays had been successful, and even that we could restart his rebellion. Corruption in Boston nowadays would make a royal tax farmer blush. And "Gerrymandering" was invented here, so representation is still unfairly apportioned, leaving the Commonwealth a virtual one party state.
You are somewhat off target, though. This was an internal affair in Massachusetts relating to the under representation of the west and the over representation of Boston and the unfair control of its rich merchants at the expense of westerners.
The colonies had no representation in parliament. The UK had come to be a foreign country except in name. Massachusetts local officials had even arrested, locked up and deported a few royal governors. Massachusetts is a very interesting place, please look up our history.
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As far as the Obama's Olympic trip what could he have done in DC that he was unable to do in Copenhagen? They have pens, papers, fax-machines,computers, telephones, internet access and video conferencing capabilities in Denmark right?
Where was the outrage when George W. Bush (the most lesuirely, vacationing president ever) took his frequent breaks for golfing and fishing etc, not to mention when he took 4 days off just to WATCH the Olympics!!
I have seen and heard many things about Obama but to claim the guy can't multi-task is obviously ridiculous.
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"Police in Brazil say a TV crime show host accused of ordering killings to boost his ratings has gone missing after his arrest warrant was issued.
Wallace Souza, also a local congressman, had enjoyed parliamentary immunity until last week when the Amazonas state assembly expelled him.
A search is under way, with airports and roads from the city of Manaus in the Amazon region being monitored.
Mr Souza has not been charged.."" [BBC World Service]
So perhaps Olympic Games should be held in Manaus?
Obviously now a safer place than it was a year ago when I visited it.
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With 434 comments to scroll from, which is way way too many, I feel it is time to introduce a system of comment recommendation counting on the editors blog that now is in place on "Have Your Say".
When there are way too many comments to read, I like to read the "most recommended" on HYS.
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#435
I disagree. You are not obligated to read every post. Somedays I have plenty of time and enjoy seeing how individual discussions progress, especially the arguements, It is relatively easy to follow as most people have the courtesy to mark their replies with number of the post they are referring to. Somedays I have less time and so just scroll through looking for comments from certain posters Fluftale,PA-Mom,gunreligion,socialibert,MAII,sT.D,Cunard,Interestforeign,Squirrelist and many more give, for the most part, intelligent posts that sometimes gain my interest more than the original blog. Many of these people I disagree with regularly but I enjoy hearing conservative-type viewpoints from intelligent people rather than the cartoon characters on Fox News. If you were to limit it to a select few posts I, personally would lose interest.
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The disappointment in cophenhagen has been compensated by Oslo. The brand Obama has no boundries..Perhaps if Obama had gone made the appealing speech alone and his wife just silently sat there, Chicago would have won over Rio.
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My British expat friends introduced me to a very strange concoction called "Whiskey Mac." One mixes single-malt scotch and a rather sweet Ginger wine. It tasted better than it sounded, but I made a new version with an added ingredient, Jamaican Ginger Beer. They seemed to like the spicy version and decided to name it after me. I think some people make it with brandy instead of whiskey. Years later, I've decided not to waste good [or at least expensive] whiskey on this as a less expensive blend works as well [or not if the taste still appalls].
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