Speaking American
I will be labouring on Labor day.
It is not a British public holiday, so I don't mind working. More problematic is how I should I spell it? Should I be speaking English, or American?
The oft-used quote - "a people divided by a common language" - makes a good point. But the common language does something much more, which poses a real dilemma to me as a foreign correspondent based in Washington.
Note that "foreign correspondent". The language is one of the reasons that many Brits fool themselves into thinking that America isn't foreign, not really foreign, like other countries.
It is understandable. I guess roughly just under half of the books I have ever read, and half of the music I listen to is American in origin. For movies, the count would be much higher.
Movies, eh? Not films? Which brings me to the heart of my dilemma. It is this: when, if ever, should I use American English words or instead of British English words?
Of course, every British family living in the states reflects on this issue. On a short but glorious road trip south we soon fell to talking about stopping at a "gas" station, while still worrying that we were running low on "petrol".
Talking to Americans, it seems rude to use a different word or even pronunciation. It seems appropriate, when trying to sort out my horrendous IT problems, to talk not about my "root-er" but my "rout-er", accepting the defeat linguistically implied.
Even in a foreign country with a foreign language, some words are absorbed. It is a microcosm of the way a strong and confident language develops.
In Belgium, it was natural to refer to the rather un-English idea of a training course for children during the holidays as a "stage".
Some are adopted mainly as a joke: getting the wallet out after a family meal, "de rekening" always seemed more appropriate than a mere bill.
But I think it is different for a reporter. I am keenly aware that my primary responsibility is to give an insight into this country for a British audience.
Watching coverage of the inauguration, I winced when I heard an excellent reporter talking about the "mass transit system." I guessed, but did not truly know, that he meant "public transport".
Now, I may be more of an idiot than most viewers, but to me it is off-putting.
In Belgium, I would not dream of referring to my "GSM", or - if reporting from Germany - would not even use the wonderful "handy" . Here in the US, my "mobile" will doubtless become a "cell" when talking to Americans, but it won't when I'm broadcasting.
It is a thin line between empathy, insight and going native and the language you use is part of that.
But what do you think?
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~15~RS~)
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Mr. Mardell,
As an American, I'd suggest that this is a slippery slope. To attempt to consciously determine the degree of "Americanisms" to absorb is dangerous. Which Americanisms will you adopt? Where do you draw the line?
In one of your intro posts to your American assignment, you looked forward to getting out beyond the beltway- but the dangers are magnified there, as you head for regionalisms... Do you drink soda? Soda pop? Pop? or a Coke? Do you have a couch, ottoman, or sofa?
Probably playing it by ear is the best bet. Some people absorb turns of phrase and even accents just by listening, and can't help it (I caught myself unconsciously "catching someone up" and "giving it a go" just after reading Harry Potter.) If you're not one of them, consciously trying to adopt Americanisms will feel unnatural to you and sound awkward to the natives.
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Mr. Mardell,
Sooner or later you are bound to find yourself in a situation where you have to use an American word just to make yourself understood. Many people in the US have spent very little time with Brits (I personally have only ever met three Brits in person, and those were the briefest of meetings). I suggest that you use the British words that come natural first, substituting American words only if people don't understand you. Even if you try not to absorb American pronunciations you are likely to pick up some. I met someone who had spent some years in Wales and she had a more than a trace of that accent. Have fun as you listen to all the different voices you'll hear!
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Interesting post, and on a topic one normally doesn't think about on an everyday basis. I must say that the quote " two countries seperated by a common language" was coined by Oscar Wilde. But it doesn't seem that the language barrier, if you can call it that, is as great as most poeple would make it out to be.
However, I have to confess there are some difference that date back to colonization, when the first settlers established a colony in Virginia. When the first settlers came over here they brought with them words that were in common use in England in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. Words like fall for autumn and lumber for timber. These words fell out of usage in the mother country but remained in usage here in the Colonies. But this is not the only source of language differance between the two countries.
One of the greatest sources of language difference between the US and Britian is caused by the fact that the English language itself has the remarkable ability to absorb words from other languages. When the colonists first set foot on these shores the absorb words from local languages.
However there are a few things I should caution you about, when you go to a sports bar and ask for a football game to be turned on you're more likely to have the television tuned to an NFL game than you are a match between Manchester United and Chelsea. Over here, we refer to football as soccer. However, I feel it is my duty to point out that the term soccer was actually invented by English Schoolboys and not us americans.
Another thing you should watch out for is the word truck, which is used for anything from a pick up truck like the Ford F-150 and a large 18 wheel vehicle that is used to transport consumer goods. WE don't use the word lorrie.
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"I will be labouring on Labor day.
It is not a British public holiday, so I don't mind working. More problematic is how I should I spell it? Should I be speaking English, or American?"
For a start, since you now are resident in America, then you should observe the American holiday/s. Come next Independence Day are you going to ignore it or accept an invitation to a barbecue? It's all part of living in another country. Between those is Boxing Day, which I have celebrated as long as I can remember, a trip to the theatre in lieu of a pantomime. You don't have to force everyone else to do so and a family occasion works fine. I assume you'll celebrate Thanksgiving, or would you rather stay at home because it's not a British Bank Holiday? No, join in and enjoy.
About the spelling of this holiday weekend, it is American and should be spelt in the American way, just as the British Labour Party should retain the 'U'. Because you are writing for a British readership, then use British English. It may be helpful and interesting to point out the differences in terms, not just boot and trunk and all the well-known variations (and certainly not the slang word for cigarette, the joke, such as it ever was, is far too tired) but things such as cling film - plastic wrap, cockerel – rooster, fairground - carnival, leader (of an orchestra) - concert master; there are dozens if not hundreds of differences and euphemisms, e.g., lavatory - rest-room, the former having the additional meaning of wash basin! Live here for forty years and you'll still find something new.
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Hi Mark. You wonder "when, if ever, should I use American English words or instead of British English words?"
First, in your professional life the issue is simple. You write for a British website so use British spelling/words for your own creative output and American spelling/words for quotes from Americans. Use local phrases for journalistic colo(u)r.
Second, in everyday life you will have to learn the language, just like anyone who goes to live in a foreign country. And then there will be the regional dialects, word variants etc as you travel around the country.
I hope you'll get out of the beltway as much as possible .... it's much more interesting.
Just don't be shocked when you hear the word fanny - it's not the same over there! (For the non-British - to "fall on your fanny" in the UK would require a female contortionist!)
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3 Americansportfan
"When the first settlers came over here they brought with them words that were in common use in England in the late 16th and early 17th centuries. Words like fall for autumn and lumber for timber. These words fell out of usage in the mother country but remained in usage here in the Colonies."
This is absolutely right.
Mark, if you haven't read it try Bill Bryson's book "Made in America". It's a fascinating look at the development of American language and culture. And funny too.
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"Talking to Americans, it seems rude to use a different word or even pronunciation. It seems appropriate, when trying to sort out my horrendous IT problems, to talk not about my "root-er" but my "rout-er", accepting the defeat linguistically implied."
So long as people understand you, go ahead and use whatever pronunciation you like. Not being into the IT world, I don't really think much about the word "routers". But I do note that the pronunciation for "route" in my area is split about half and half between root and rout. Another variation is "often"--some pronounce the "t" and others don't. Also, "either" is most commonly pronounced i-ther in my area but I learned it from my parents as e-ther (my parents didn't originally grow up in this area).
Also, I disagree with DC. There's no need for you to celebrate Independence Day if you don't want to. You're welcome to sit at home and mope;)
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re #4
I would agree whole heartily about about celebrating holidays. Btw, this should be used as an opertunity educate your readership on American Culture. I can't wait to hear you describe what you're doing at Thanksgiving.
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Mark: I agree completely with David_Cunard in post 4, with the caveat that the same day is Labour Day in Canada (and is spelled that way there). For holidays or place names, spell as the locals do: Bar Harbor in Maine, Grand Harbour in New Brunswick, French orthography in places with a francophone majority. (Please remember our northern/eastern neighbours! By the way, does your North American beat also include Mexico or the Caribbean countries?) When speaking, use the vocabulary or pronunciations that your particular audience will be most likely to understand ("router" was a good example), and please don't be concerned about rudeness stemming from either vocabulary or pronunciation when speaking to locals; the vast majority of people will delight in the conversational change of pace that you and your family will present to them.
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No offense, Mr. Mardell, but isn't this no-brainer? I always understood that the standards were to write (or speak) in the language of the audience (which in your case, would be British), except when using a word or phrase unique to another culture. Hence, since your primary audience is British, but the holiday uniquely American, "labouring on Labor Day" would be correct. If your purpose was to write to us Americans, then "laboring on Labor Day" would have been more appropriate. Just, whatever you do, don't spell it "Labour Day". That just wouldn't be cool.
I must say, I agree with the poster so far, when in Rome, do as the Romans do. Call in sick, fire up the grill, and crack open a cold beer. You can't write about America to you're fellow Brits if you don't take the time to "go native" every once in while. You can't understand us by observation alone, you got to experience it. That was something that was lost to Justin.
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#8. AmericanSportFan: "I would agree whole heartily about about celebrating holidays. Btw, this should be used as an opertunity educate your readership on American Culture. I can't wait to hear you describe what you're doing at Thanksgiving."
In the same spirit, I was once back in the UK at the time Thanksgiving was observed in the US and I invited my relatives to an American Thanksgiving Dinner, even taking cranberry sauce with me, long before cranberries were seen in Britain. To misquote Gertrude Stein, a turkey is a turkey is a turkey, but the trimmings and table decorations were unique to America. The only upset was that having taken a package of onion soup mix, to make the then popular dip with sour cream, I discovered that British soured cream had none of the consistency of that found in the USA. Nevertheless, the occasion was a success and an aunt remarked that it had been a new cultural experience for her. I hope that Mark will be invited to a typical family dinner, not a "smart" buffet evening, since it is quite the best holiday ever devised. No obligations for cards or gifts, just a get-together to give thanks for all the good things, even if tragedy has befallen one. I've long felt that Britain should adopt Thanksgiving and that America should co-opt Boxing Day.
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Mark -
Welcome to North America! I enjoyed your Europe blog.
I wouldn't worry about it. Most Americans find Brit-speak both cute and refined at the same time (a double-winner!). Sometimes people might get confused, but certainly "mobile" and "petrol" are understandable. If people sometimes have to ask you what you mean, they probably aren't upset. Once you explain what you mean they will either forget all about it or applaud themselves for learning a new word in a foreign language.. Depending on how worldly they are.
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"I will be labouring on Labor day."
I only just noticed: in the interest of good English, that really should read "I shall be labouring on Laabor Day." Why is it that "will" has become a poor and sloppy replacement for "shall"? "I will" means "I am willing" and "I shall" indicates there is determination to do a thing. Rather like the odious "got" in so much speech today, excessively casual vernacular has crept into all walks - and professions - of life. It's not as if there should be any difficulty in remembering when 'shall' and 'will' are to be used: shall, will, will; shall, will, will.
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13 (David_Cunard)
I shall will myself to remember that in future.
(There are far more egregious misuses of words on the Beeb sometimes than that.)
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14: Addendum I f we're going to marr Mr Mardell's first few days like this, then the 'd' ought to be capitalised as well. (If it's not going to be capitalised on.)
(And don't mention the extraneous 'l' in my moniker, anybody! There's a reason for that, I do know how to spell it.)
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I'm think that it's called Gas over hear is because it is short gasoline, the actual substance you put in you tank to run the car. Petrol is short for Petrolium which is unrefined oil, which can be used to manufacture gasoline, and other products.
AS for why they're called Cellphones, I think that its a shortening for celluar phone, which is actually the proper name for these mobile devices.
By the way Mark, there is actual no need actually work on Labor Day as absolutely no business takes place on Labor Day. Government offices are closed, banks are shut down, and people generally tend to do thinks that are relaxing like having a barbque or going to a ballgame. Btw, AS long as you're hear I might suggest that you try out some of the local sports such as Baseball, and Football. The baseball season is in its final month while Football begins next Sunday. Check it out. If it's cricket you want you can find that two as there are several clubs in the Philadelphia and New York Areas.
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Since the Canadians share most North Americanisms but spell as if they were British... as we Americans did into the early 20th Century... I believe that focusing on spelling differences is something of a red herring. Since Labour Day (on the first Monday in September) was first observed in Canada and only adopted later in the USA, go ahead and observe the holiday... at the very least, over Canadian biscuits at tea (the word "cookie" has snuck into Canadian usage, but never at tea).
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Just enjoy yourself, and remember that if the worst Obama had to worry about was how to pronounce 'tomato', you'd be out of a job.
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16 sportfan
"absolutely no business takes place on Labor Day."
None at all. No malls open, no shops. How old-fashionned!
Public holidays in our consumer-driven world (on both sides of the Atlantic) are fine for civil servants or large corporation employees, but what of the waiting staff or shop assistant who wishes to join their family for a traditional Labor Day barbeque? Hmmm.
Also I see no reason for Mark not to work on Labor Day. After all he could go to a great barbeque, file some "local culture" style copy on how great American public holidays are, sink a few cold ones, and get paid. Winners all round! Good luck Mark.
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16. At 09:56am on 06 Sep 2009, AmericanSportFan wrote:
"there is actual no need actually work on Labor Day as absolutely no business takes place on Labor Day"
I think maybe some people are missing something. The point is the BBC (like other media) doesn't close down and take a holiday, whether it's Labo(u)r Day or Easter Sunday or Boxing Day or Bastille Day. News still happens. Or might happen. (In theory, anyway.) And your Monday morning paper (assuming you still have one in the US where you live) is produced mostly on Sunday when other people are doing whatever they do to relax . . .
btw, shouldn't it be spelt "Labour" anyway if you're celebrating the British Labour Party every year. Just out of curiosity, if you call petrol 'gas' what do you call the stuff you put a match to and cook with?
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17. At 11:04am on 06 Sep 2009, muscatel;
So glad to see bikkies are still in existence in Canada. But I see 'snuck' has sneaked in over the border.
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At 11:26am on 06 Sep 2009, squirrellist wrote:
btw, shouldn't it be spelt "Labour" anyway if you're celebrating the British Labour Party every year. Just out of curiosity, if you call petrol 'gas' what do you call the stuff you put a match to and cook with?
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We call it Lighter Fluid and it comes in handy when your looking to cook with Charcoal although some brand of charcoal actually don't require the use of lighter fluid.
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AmericanSportFan: "We call it Lighter Fluid and it comes in handy when your looking to cook with Charcoal although some brand of charcoal actually don't require the use of lighter fluid."
I believe what squirrellist wanted to know (and I'm curious as well) is:
What's the word you use for the 'gas' that's pumped into your houses for your central (and/or water) heating, for your ovens and for the hobs on your stoves?
We have "British Gas", a company that does not make gasoline for cars but supplies natural gas to homes (and businesses) for heating and cooking. When people in the UK say "gas" that's what they mean. What word would American's use?
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" I will be labouring on Labor day."
This is an example of the "new British" lexicon, wherein the word "labour" means waffling on about words. There was a time, even in England, when it meant cracking a sweat doing something arduous.
So language changes everywhere. The colonial rapscallions inevitably err, but not cos day tick, innit?
Just don't eat your noodles out of the can, or if you do, don't be discussing it publicwise.
There will be all sorts of offendiffication and goshalities.
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Please use English, Mr Mardell. Americans will only benefit.
i am an American, and l do wish that the British, and even the altogether too-shy-about-it English, would reclaim ownership of the language. lt is one thing to have quaint American spelling (which l dutifully absorbed in my then-excellent American public schools) -- it is another altogether to refuse to call the language by its proper name in schools; to fail to teach its grammar; to refuse to read (or firmly avoid reading) its literary masterpieces.
Thank God for JK Rowling who made English, the English, Britain, British culture and the UK cool again for a whole new generation of Americans. And maybe for their offspring to come.
America and Americans have their moments, as the oh-so-gently satiric Apple commercials demonstrate -- and you are already predisposed to agree, because like virtually every single person from the UK you have much better manners and a more open mind than 90% of the human race. Well, maybe 80%. l am just looking for what is called the ballpark figure over here.
Nevertheless, raising the level of precision in English is something l believe all Americans would endorse, and so l strongly recommend you stick to your natural propensities. Of course you will absorb the "charming idioms" -- and cringe at the not-so-charming ones.
As for diction & inflection, please don't mimic Hugh Laurie's impeccable American. As an actor, he is paid to prove it can be done, and does it extraordinarily well. Your role is different: to enlighten, to bridge and to direct. Please be entirely as you are, and as some of us already know you from your European tour. Throw in all those efficient European phrases, as part of the deal (what they call a 'freebie' over here): Americans will only benefit from exposure to more European details of all sorts. l like this 'de rekening' you mentioned and shall start using it. Give it a whirl, l mean.
English accents are rather popular, as our 16-year-old has discovered upon his reintroduction into the California secondary school system. (So far, so good: everyone calls him 'London,' and asks him to speak "Brit.") The again, California is so much more open-hearted towards the rest of the world than some other parts of the US... included, as l sometimes worry, DC.
There is a natural grace to the English phrases that spring up in the cradle of English civilisation. "Cash point" rather than "ATM." "Rubbish" rather than "garbage." "Kip" instead of "dumpster."
On the other hand, America has Wallace Stevens -- and what a fine poet he is! l refer you to "Sunday Morning" from the collection so elegantly titled The Palm at the End of the Mind.
Americans need to read more, so this year l vow to promote little exercises for language & literacy skills improvement all the time. (The Apple commercial reference is an example of that, not "product placement" of any kind. Some Americans are still good with words, and since many Americans tend to mistrust anyone who is not "100% bona fide American," l hope to help them rediscover the lost treasures of their own most eloquent & inspired thinkers, speakers, poets. l hope you don't mind, as it is all done in the service of your own beautiful English -- a language that l, very much like Vladimir Nabokov, love just as passionately as my own native Russian -- ancien regime Russian -- and the literary French, and the literary Spanish that life, friends and teachers so generously provided.)
So, yes, by all means, inject a little Europe into the American landscape, literal & metaphoric. lt will do us all a great deal of good. Welcome to your new cathedra; glad to have you here. We have already toasted Justin Webb a few times: now we can toast you.
Mark Twain, anyone?
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Re 23
Oh, if that's what your asking. We simply call it Natural Gas.
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I love the capitals on "lighter fluid". So cute.
In england we call Lighter Fluid "Wendy Juice". The name came about when Lord Wendy of Wimbledon got his foot caught in a drain in the early 16th century, and was run down by a coal wagon.
The wagon tipped over and, due to the constant rain, Lord Wendy's remains were slowly imbued with flammable hydrocarbons from the coal. Eventually some of the lower orders, who had been stealing the coal, found Lord Wendy and dragged his sorry form into the pub to dry. Just as he was beginning to recover himself, he sneezed, and caused a huge explosion. Hence "Wendy Juice", for Lighter Fluid.
True story.
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' ...I winced when I heard an excellent reporter talking about the "mass transit system." I guessed, but did not truly know, that he meant "public transport".'
Mark, a taxi is public transport but not mass transport. One housepoint to me.
Having taught American adults for over five years, hers are some pitfalls to avoid:
Do not say "Please can I borrow your rubber." Say "eraser".
If you took a small child out on Sunday do not say: "I took the nipper out on Sunday." It means something else.
If you have to leave a meeting early do not say: "Excuse me, I have to shoot off early." It means something else.
I have no doubt that there are others.
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25 maria-ashott
"Kip" instead of "dumpster."
Although it may be a simple typo error, I must point out that a British dumpster is a SKIP. A "kip" is a much loved slang for a short sleep, or a nap, or 40 winks. Something I'm quite looking forward to now, just after Sunday lunch.
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To Threnodio!
With reference to your posting:
'95. At 7:37pm on 04 Sep 2009, threnodio wrote:
#92 - SuffolkBoy2
Clearly you don't know. ...'
I am genuinely sorry that your Better Half has passed away. You and I know that we disagree on many things. That does not mean that I hate you or wish you harm or pain in any way.
I am very glad that your Better Half received excellent treatment at Addenbrookes.
I have heard nothing but good about Addenbrookes. It appears to be an exception. It appears to be a bright, shiny, immensely valuable jewel in a rusty, broken, ill-fitting, DIRTY crown.
When there was an opinion poll using a sample of, I think, 3000 and the majority wanted to leave the "EU" you stated that a sample of 3000 does not prove anything or something like that.
When it suits you, a sample of 3000 is inadequate. When it suits you, a sample of one does the job.
My experiences with the NHS in the last eleven (?) years have been awful. I have had one good experience.
I do not wish to challenge your sample of one with my own sample of one. Because I have lived in Germany for many years I tend to get drawn into conversations with Germans who live in the UK and Brits who have lived in Germany. Those who are able to compare overwhelmingly find the German health system to be much better. Statistics I saw quoted on the Telly a few years ago indicated that the German system was much better. They indicated that the Swiss system was better still.
These methods of comparison are flawed in some way but they all point in the same direction. I believe do know that the German system is better.
Do I know that WWII really happened? Did that bomb really bounce in my parents garden and take out the house next door? Were all those stories everybody of my parents generation used to tell repeatedly (Like Man, I mean REPEATEDLY!!) really true? I certainly believe WWII happened.
As regards to Addenbrookes being near to me: I have written to my local hospital asking what I have to do so that I never get sent there again. They tell me that my GP has to send me somewhere else. My GP was considering sending me to a hospital about a certain matter some time ago. I stressed that I did not wish to go to my local hospital. He said something like: "You don't want to travel all that distance..." Oh yes I do!!!!! I didn't get sent to hospital. Addenbrookes might be physically fairly near. It might as well be on the far side of the moon.
In Germany you don't have to go through your GP. You can just go straight to hospital.
I love Suffolk, BUT:
I want to leave the UK because of the NHS.
I want to leave the "EU".
Swiss people!! I am a bit weird, but I am harmless!!
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Still no proper Euroblog!!
Or have I missed it??
Do I smell a rat??
Are we being denied a Euroblog because the Irish referendum is only a short time away??
Or am I being paranoid?
If I am, then you will have to excuse me. There has been so much disgraceful, manipulative behaviour by "EU"-lovers that even the most "absurd" suspicions could turn out to be true.
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Mr Mardell, (Can I call you Mark?)
To truly go native as in " When in Rome, do as the Roman's" could you consider addressing the very first thing in your post's?
Despite the logic of its structure, the date would no longer be written 6 September 2009.
Nope, the Amurrican conversion is to September 6th, 2009.
Trust me, it'll grow on you...
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#27 Democracythreat--That sounds like a tall tale. But sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.
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31 I see that conspiracy theories aren't a uniquely American phenomenon.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
There are American habits that really ought to be avoided. I don't know why some people seem to think that a plural words need apostrophes. That problem annoys me more than occasional typographical errors.
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31. At 3:20pm on 06 Sep 2009, SuffolkBoy2 wrote:
"am I being paranoid?"
About Europe? Yes.
About a BBC Chief Correspondent based in Brussels, yes, also. Don't think they've appointed one yet, or if they have, can't find a reference to it. Maybe one of their other European reporters could fill in for a bit. You could try 'The Brussels Journal', it would suit you, I think.
(I decline, for purely political reasons, to offer a direct link to that thing. Me, I'd prefer to apply Wendy Juice and a Lucifer to it.)
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35
Well I only wanted to know what the word we use for 'youngster' meant in American English, and mentioned another phrase that's different in American English to British English (waking someone up) but it seems it's suddenly become 'offensive' so we're going to have to be careful. I suppose I'll have to ask an American neighbour, then.
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Re 27
He didn't happen to play tennis did he?
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34. At 3:47pm on 06 Sep 2009, trueconservative wrote:
"I see that conspiracy theories aren't a uniquely American phenomenon."
That's not a theory, just a condition.
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#16. AmericanSportFan: "By the way Mark, there is actual no need actually work on Labor Day as absolutely no business takes place on Labor Day."
Offices, banks and governmental departments may be closed, but supermarkets, home stores, &c. are all open for most of the day, with the exception of WalMart, which, I think, does close all day to enable its employees to enjoy the holiday. But if you want to buy a dozen eggs or a spanner (wrench) you can.
#28. SuffolkBoy2: "Mark, a taxi is public transport but not mass transport."
No. A taxi is not "public transport" but a private vehicle for rent (hire). Public transport or "rapid transit" denotes a public service available to the general public for a relatively modest fee - usually a bus service or in some cities, a subway or other fixed rail method of transporting large numbers of people.
#32. RichardInFL: "the date would no longer be written 6 September 2009. Nope, the Amurrican conversion is to September 6th, 2009. Trust me, it'll grow on you..."
After forty-two years of residence in California I still cannot remember wich way to write it, most especially when it comes to numbers */*/**. I can remember the last figure (usually!!) but never the order of the first two, between the slashes (forward stroke, oblique). It's taken a long time to grow on me!
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#38 I wonder if the moderators unintentionally let through more bad American words than bad British words. I dare not test it though because I wouldn't like to become a u-number.
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42. At 5:39pm on 06 Sep 2009, trueconservative:
Quite. Best not to make waves. (Difficult to tell sometimes what might disturb the water, though.)
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35 and 38 squirrellist
I almost made a comment about the knock knock version of asking for a wake-up call ... just to alert Mark to the risk.
Seems I was correct to let sleeping moderators lie.
However my interest is most definitely peeked by the possible other meaning for "nipper" ... it's only ever meant a small child in my book.
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44. At 6:24pm on 06 Sep 2009, RomeStu:
Yes, that was it. The two of us (I almost used the other word, as in 'shoes' there, but you can't be too careful, can you?) will just have to bask in our ignorance, I suppose.
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45 Well, it's frustrating for me not knowing what you mean about the wake up call. I probably know the American expression, but I can't guess what one you mean.
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Mark, here is another word I would advise you to be careful with in how you use it. AS most of the readers know, the word Yank or Yankee is a term that people outside the United States use as reference to Americans. However, almost nobody here in the states uses that term to describe themselves.
Infact, the term itself has several differant meanings that depend largely upon where you live. If you live in the South, the term Yankee refers to a northerner. If you live in the mid atlantic the term refers to anyone who lives in New England, especially in Vermont and New Hampshire. However, if you live in either New York or Boston the term refers to the baseball team, who are loved by New Yorkers and loathed by Bostonians.
Re 37,
About that I forgot about the fact that retail never shuts down. Infact the only days they do seem to close are Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter.
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46. At 7:06pm on 06 Sep 2009, trueconservative
Sorry. RomeStu and I will just have to maintain a silence pregnant with anticipation. I had a good joke ready as well to do with Peter Pan's friend, but I'm not going to risk that either now.
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I absolutely love this thread. I've always wondered about the much bigger picture, the one which entitles Brits to absorb American culture into our own, yet if an American tries to take on culture or even language cues from Britain, we are often and likely chastised for it.
Liv @ greensboring
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Mark try for a laugh going in to buy some silicone sealent for a bath tub or windows.
Caulking we would call it;)
it is a good exercise. soon you will be saying to the greater in the store whaen they ask if they can help you
" yes have you got some cock"
I'm not being rude here mods they seem to think caulking and roosters are related.
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Stu good to see you made it.
much better than the last venue it seems, so far.
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5 stu and no fanny packs are borrowed in the UK either.
books on comparison between two cultures and language is the "brit think, ameri think"
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13 DCshall sort of says "will be allowed to"
will sort of says. I will it is my will and I do my will.
-------------------
on GAS it is called natural gas or "propane" depending on which it is.
Propane is refinned from Crude Oil Natural gas is . well for lack of a better term "natural"
Propane is what "calor"gas is .
the use of gas is quite strange.
it is a liquid. not a gas. though the gaseous fumes of the liquid are what goes BANG.
but then ASF does mention the gasoline connection so that's probably more right. I'm not no moto head.
Maria
"Thank God for JK Rowling who made English, the English, Britain, British culture and the UK cool again for a whole new generation of Americans. And maybe for their offspring to come."
What is a true shame is that the US editions of these books had several changes made to them to make them easier to understand in the states.
Bit like builder bob speaks with an american accent.
in that translation that cultural sharing you describe is diminished.
Sad I'm glad you bought the UK editions.
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29 well pointed out.
""100% bona fide American" surely you mean 'merkin.
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"Mark, a taxi is public transport but not mass transport. One housepoint to me."
Or privatly owned public use transport you. loose that point
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32 rich in FL.
"trust me it'll grow on you"
LOL no I will get used to it is more accurate.
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47. At 7:17pm on 06 Sep 2009, AmericanSportFan wrote:
"the word Yank or Yankee is a term that people outside the United States use as reference to Americans."
No need to worry, we usually only use the word that way between ourselves. We call Americans "colonials" to their faces.
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well I see some have already been covered.
Squirrel
. I am trying to find an american here that Knows what a "nipper" is.
I assume some sort of terrier.
So far I have stuck out on it though and must assume it is a regional thing.
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#57 LOL
#58 Fluffytale In my area "nipper" is a non-vulgar word used for hedge clippers. I don't doubt that it has a bad meaning somewhere, though.
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59 TC it is also a tool used in the sheet metal industry.
takes a nip out at a time.
one oscillating blade in between two static blades.
but still can't find that merkin phrase.
Pizin?
Any Ideas from non 2000ad readers;)
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mark sometimes if the real english fails then it is time to "try on an accent"
As with the caulking above it sometimes helps to try to pretend you are taking the mickey and impersonate the accent just to get the word through.
Do be careful with those un familiar with the accent. sometimes they will just sit saying yes and chatting without listening.
then you have to repeat it again.
Watch for that glaze. Stop and wait for them to recompose them selves.
If you are being critical be extra careful.
It is pretty frustrating to be trying to make a point and the people are 'like' "Dudde where are you from. cool accent. are you from england?"
It can be frustrating to be an accent. gives you a small feel of what it is like for a woman when men go "gee you're pretty" at the office.
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Maria
"Thank God for JK Rowling who made English, the English, Britain, British culture and the UK cool again for a whole new generation of Americans. And maybe for their offspring to come."
JK Rowling writes children's books about a world where certain children from certain families are born with special abilities that make them superior human beings, so they are sent to a special school.
Then she throws in dragons, unicorns, magic potions and evil wizards. Her world is neatly divided into pure good and pure evil.
Consequently, the vast majority of literate adults in the english speaking world read these books and consider them the pinnacle of literature for their generation. They discuss them in awe, and compete to mount praise on such rare art.
My sister, who is 46, asked me with excitement if I had read the latest JK Rowling book. When i said I hadn't read any of them, she advised me to do so. Then she got all upset when i suggested that her children were highly likely to grow up as half witted cretins, and it would be her fault for setting the example.
Some people are so sensitive about literature, i tell you.
I am like "I don't know any magical elves. I can't relate to it." Then i get accused of being stuck up.
It's enough to make a person go read the bible, just to fit in.
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DT you do seem a little stuck up , but the phrase wouldn't end there.;)
If you think a potter book will make kids retarded you are crazy.
I'm not going to defend the books except to say that reading a book is not likely to produce a half witt.
Taking it too seriously maybe but then were you never a child or as an adult have you never found joy in anything enough to recommend it.
So what is good literature.
books that contain nothing but real life characters ?History books?
Sheakshisspear ( now that he is dead are we allowed to suggest he was rubbish)
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Mark on the question of the holidays.
Use the opportunity to observe americas at their best . go to the mall.;)
Sorry not funny really. OK Go look to see who labours in the USA.
I guarantee it's not the bankers and lawyers etc, the professional non labour workers are probably taking the day off.
the labourers may still be mowing a lawn so the grass is JUST the right length for the barbecue tomorrow.
A good time to research the fact that this is the America holiday .
IE the haves take it the have not don't.
Or they take it unpaid so regret it.
A good time to think about the fact that most US workers get 1 week after working for a year .
That is not a paid week but a week where they are allowed to take time off.
then there are those that get some money for the time off.
Not like the UK where ALL get a holiday and paid.
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Anyone still worried about what our British slang for a ruxxxx means across the Pond - the Urban Dictionary gives a number of definitions, the first being "a demoralising racial slur used to put down people of Japanese background" (logical, but I bet you didn't think of it either) and the second referring to particulars of the female of the species (OK, you'll just have to look for yourself). There are also some "little white onion dudes in Super Mario 3" that go by the name, apparently.
Hope this helps.
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63. At 10:33pm on 06 Sep 2009, fluffytale
Funny how people who haven't read a book can tell you what the effect on the reader will be. Perhaps not reading the Harry Potter books has the same effect on our Mr Gradgrind here.
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65. At 11:58pm on 06 Sep 2009, Didactylid (My mind is beginnin
You lost me there for a minute, I was trying to work out what was dodgy about "Russkie", but I got there eventually. I must say, having to go all elliptical is a bore. It's a bit like talking of a table's 'limbs'. Still, I shouldn't think it would cause any problems, somehow. The, er, context should be clear enough. Unless you happened to be in a Naturist holiday resort frequented by Japanese when you wouldn't have a limb to stand on, I suppose.
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#65. Didactylid: "the Urban Dictionary gives a number of definitions, the first being "a demoralising racial slur used to put down people of Japanese background"
Checked out the phrase, but it only shows (on the left side of the pond) up when demoralising is spelt with a 'z'. It goes on to note that it is "equal to calling an asian person a . . . (pejorative for Chinese.)" Where do they think Japan is? Geography isn't their strong suit!
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Mark please do yourself a favor and do NOT try to imitate an American accent.
Brits really aren't that great at it, despite what you may read on a Brit website about Hugh Laurie and his "amazing" American accent. He doesn't sound like us at all, merely cranky.
And do remember that "when in Rome . . . " applies to you as well. Having worked in a very popular tourist area, I'm still traumatized (years later) by the annoying behavior of some Euros. What is with climbing all over our statues?
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David_Cunard: On post 13, perhaps "I will be labouring on Labor Day" is an expression of Mark's promise (a correct example of Fowler's "coloured-future"), rather than his having mangled "I shall be labouring on Labor Day" (Fowler's "plain-future")?
The distinctions between shall and will are mostly unknown here. The old joke about the Scot having drowned in the Thames because he'd cried "I will die! Nobody shall help me!"* implies that the distinctions were (are?) largely unobserved in Scotland as well.
Xzanron: The Yankee for hob is burner, even when no open flame is involved.
SuffolkBoy2: The UK and Switzerland now share full freedom of movement, thanks to bilateral agreements between Switzerland and a certain international organization with 27 member states. If you're serious about bidding Suffolk farewell, have a look at this FAQ list.
trueconservative: Read posts 44 and 48 carefully for the wake-up call expression. You'll certainly know the unrelated American idiomatic meaning.
AmericanSportFan: In northern New England, a Yankee refers to a local who will resort to using a fork to eat apple pie with cheddar cheese on top for breakfast.
fluffytale: On post 50, yes, our vowels also mark us.
* - Most American readers are probably thinking What's so funny about this joke? Its humor is based upon "will" being understood by onlookers as an intention, and "shall" being understood as a command.
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Mark,
Of course, write for your audience - that will be good for your American audience as well.
Study how we use the language - it tells a great deal about us and how we see the world. And please tell us what you see and how we appear to you - the clearest perceptions come from just outside the room. And please don't drop into text-speak when you write - that would be making hamburger out of your ideas.
When we were in London we were in awe of the very stones and streets - to be on the soil where our own language and cultural understandings were formed. So look around you and see what we have done with your and our common heritage.
Visit as many parts of this vast nation as possible while you are here. It's OK to write about our usage, regional peculiarities, accents, and the ways in which our old world origins still crop up here in the 21st century. And the ways and places in which our origins have become indistinguishable. Eat the food. Eat in people's kitchens. See what makes a person proud, and what disgusts them.
Find a copy of Albion's Seed, by David Fischer. It makes great airplane reading and has short chapters - how four waves of immigration from the British isles in specific periods of British history brought four distinct cultures here, and formed American culture to this day. Discover why so many Americans who can afford to travel never seem to get to Europe.
Have fun! I will enjoy seeing it through your eyes.
KScurmudgeon
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70. At 06:15am on 07 Sep 2009, Jan_Keeskop wrote:
"...
SuffolkBoy2: The UK and Switzerland now share full freedom of movement, thanks to bilateral agreements between Switzerland and a certain international organization with 27 member states. If you're serious about bidding Suffolk farewell, have a look at this FAQ list. ..."#
Jan Keeskop,
You certainly do have a point about the agreements between the "EU" and Switzerland. The possibility of easier movement to Switzerland would definitely be an advantage for me personally. It would probably be the only advantage I would have from "citizenship"* of the arrogant, megalomaniac, undemocratic, anti-democratic, useless, worse-than useless, wasteful, expensive, dangerous, morally illegitimate "EU".
Switzerland should still not have opened its borders in this way. The open borders benefit criminals more than others. There are plenty of non-"EU" citizens in Switzerland so it is still possible to get in without the "EU". They should let me in because I have absolutely no criminal record.
* = prisonership
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Just after the Berlin Wall fell I had a Ukrainian house guest who in all seriousness declared 'We consider the British usage to be authoritative' - and persisted in his attempt to affect a British accent (with heavy Ukraino-Russian overtones) as he struggled to communicate with Kansans.
We all think British accents are very cool, sexy, and well, authoritative. Except those I heard on Cockspur street in London, which were identifiably English, but plainly unintelligible.
My Kansas cousins speak with a sweet lilt that whispers their country German descent.
Kscurmudgeon
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8236855.stm
' ...
"I will redouble my efforts to make an ambitious Europe happen," said Mr Barroso, a former Portuguese prime minister. ...'
So absolutely no let up on the attempt to force the Greater European Reich upon the citizens of the UK and others in the "EU" knowing full well that they do not want it.
This sick monster could lead people in Europe into a war with the USA. Not a good idea!!
I suppose Barrosso and others will get out alive just like Napoleon did.
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Hey ya'll!
I find this thread to be particularly interesting, and I am aware of many of the differences between the words used in the UK & the US.
However, I was completely perplexed by the word "nipper" as I have never heard it used before ever. So I got out my handy New Dictionary of American Slang and looked the word up. Apparently, a "Nip" is equivalent to a "Jap" and is considered as derogatory as calling an Italian a "Dego"; it can also be a cut or incision as in a "nip-tuck".
A "nipper" is a young boy of the middle 1800s or a pair of British police handcuffs. No worries though, I'm pretty sure that if Mr. Mardell were to use the word in Louisiana no one would be offended because no one would have the slightest clue as to what he said.
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Mark.
You probably found the same thing in Brussels. Living in a city where the language is not English but having contact with many British speakers from both sides of the pond, I have slipped into a kind of mid-Atlantic usage - when it comes to techno-speak especially - but I have also noticed lots of Americans meeting me half way. They speak of taxis, mobiles and - yes, rooters, not cabs, cells and routers. But this, is course, is spoken English and vernacular use is a very different thing. I am told I have a rather clipped accent - the olf BBC English if you like - although I can't say I ever noticed it - but Americanisms do not trip off the tongue easily.
In written English, I stick quite rigidly to the rule of using British English because, frankly, I can't be bothered to stop and think about American spellings. They all understand anyway. Another thing is that I still teach a little and it suprises me how many Europeans who have picked up their English either Stateside or from some American source, that they want to learn 'proper' English - not British English, 'proper' English. There continues to be a perception that the English speak the language 'like wot it should be spoke'. Ironic, perhaps that the Americans and many non British visitors tend to speak it much more correctly than the Brits.
Enough rambling - I would do whatever comes naturally when talking but err on the quaint side when writing - and please, no more blank checks:-)
On the subject of public holidays, an American company here observes all US public holidays for the benefit of their execs and all Hungarian ones (and there are quite a few) for the staff. They concluded that the execs were not going to get anything done without support staff and they had nothing to do when the execs were away so the whole lot of them have half a year off. Now that's what I call planning.
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Oh, by the way, there are some pitfalls to watch out for in the anatomy department. Try telling an American about the 'blue peter' being a flag and he will advise you to go to your nearest doctor. And as for - well, for the benefit of the moderators, the lady we Brits view by gaslight - don't even go there.
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In an office in Los Angeles and asked whether certain items were needed or not. "No, put them in the rubbish bin" produced completely blank looks. Its simple, if they don't speak your language speak theirs. I got quickly bored of talking about what i had said / how i had said it and if i wanted something achieved, used local words.
Another time when stopped by police and asked where i was going I replied plant city (plarnt) to same blanks looks quickly followed by irritation on their part. I gave in, said "plant (as in lantern) and all was well.
Interested in how the intra-family conversations develop.
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74 suffolkboy
"This sick monster could lead people in Europe into a war with the USA. Not a good idea!!"
While I'm no great supporter of the EU in it's current form, you are clearly raving inside your tinfoil hat.
Please note that Mark is now the North America correspondent and this blog is about the USA.
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It should be noted that there is no such thing as "British" English outside the USA.
There is English and American English.
However it must be confusing for some less travelled Americans. I was once asked by a shop assistent in San Antonio "Oh, so you're from England. What language do you speak there?" .... Imagine his surprise!
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69. kcwhattrick wrote:
"Mark please do yourself a favor and do NOT try to imitate an American accent."
Imitation can be many things - flattery, mockery, or most likely when you live abroad, simply absorbing the local way with words. I work alot with Americans and often end up subconsciously with a few Americanisms slipping into my conversation.
"Brits really aren't that great at it, despite what you may read on a Brit website about Hugh Laurie and his "amazing" American accent."
Please have a word with Dick van Dyke about his accent.
"And do remember that "when in Rome . . . " applies to you as well. Having worked in a very popular tourist area, I'm still traumatized (years later) by the annoying behavior of some Euros. What is with climbing all over our statues?"
Traumatised by statue climbing. Surely one of the miriad shrinks in the USA can help you brave the local landmarks again soon..... and I'm reasonably sure that Mark won't be climbing the statue of liberty soon.
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82 RomeStu
"Please have a word with Dick van Dyke about his accent."
You forgot Kevin Costner in his abominable performance as Robin Hood.
"... and I'm reasonably sure that Mark won't be climbing the statue of liberty soon."
I'm sure the National Park Service would welcome Mark's climb- if done properly from the inside.
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# 29 RomeStu wrote:
"A "kip" is a much loved slang for a short sleep, or a nap, or 40 winks."
True - though I don't think it always implies a *short* sleep.
It is also, in my experience, used as a noun to mean a 'dive' or a 'dump' - ie an unpleasant residence - eg 'the hotel was a bit of a kip'.
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# 36 trueconservative wrote:
"There are American habits that really ought to be avoided. I don't know why some people seem to think that a plural words need apostrophes. That problem annoys me more than occasional typographical errors."
I have noticed that here, but in fairness it's certainly not exclusively an American problem.
I've seen it referred to as 'the greengrocers' apostrophe' - eg "banana's 50p, apple's 60p", etc
There was a woman who reported to me at work not long ago who was quite bright and reasonably well educated on the face of it - she had a degree. However, she not only constantly inserted apostrophes where they weren't needed, she routinely omitted them where they were.
"Johns report's are always excellent" - that sort of thing...
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# 47 AmericanSportFan wrote:
"Mark, here is another word I would advise you to be careful with in how you use it. AS most of the readers know, the word Yank or Yankee is a term that people outside the United States use as reference to Americans."
Not sure whether I should share this. Americans will no doubt have heard of Cockney rhyming slang. Eg 'Rabbit' means 'talk', as in 'Rabbit-and-Pork'. [Pork and talk would rhyme to a Cockney.]
Anyway, allegedly Americans are referred to by some Londoners - eg some London cabbies - as 'Septics'. From 'Septic Tank = Yank'....
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#80 - RomeStu wrote:
"It should be noted that there is no such thing as "British" English outside the USA.
There is English and American English".
No sorry - there is. Software houses use the term widely to distiquish from other variants. It is also important within the British Isles since the gaelic countries have their own languages. Those who use these languages are almost always fluently biligual so they will speak British English in a regional accent or a dialect plus their local language. The good citizens of Perth pride themselves on speaking the most correct English of all. This would not be likely if there was a Scottish English available. The wide regional variations, then are accents or dialects of what is essentially the same language - British English.
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# 82 Via-Media wrote:
"You forgot Kevin Costner in his abominable performance as Robin Hood."
To be honest, I wasn't v bothered about Costner. As far as I could see he didn't actually attempt an English accent, which meant he couldn't really fail at it.
And I daresay he could argue that, even if Robin Hood actually existed, who can say what he would have sounded like. An American, for all we know.
Anyway, if you think Americans do bad English accents, you should hear some of their attempts at Irish ones. Far And Away with Tom Cruise springs to mind. I only saw the trailers, but they contain the immortal line 'I never saw de loikes of her in all me livin' loife'...
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It is a misconception that Americas and Brits speak a common language. They have similarities and a common ancestry centuries ago but they have diverged considerably. As evidence and as luck would have it, I just heard Rick Steves' interview with the author of Septic's Companion on NPR. Here's a link
http://septicscompanion.com/
There's a link to the radio interview on that site plus many definitions.
Now having grown up on the streets of New York City and therefore being from the "sticks and stones" school of insults, I really don't mind as an American being referred to as a septic tank (tank rhymes with Yank which is how they refer to us.) Among the ploys of this silly game is the Cockney habit of using the first word of a two word phrase the second one of which rhymes with the word the intended meaning is defined for. I can't even call this sophomoric, I'd call it adolescent like a bunch of high school kids with a secret language like pig latin...ixnay, ixnay. However, it can prove amusing to an adult for about five minutes so since turnaround is fair play, here's the title of my inverse translator;
"The Chicken's Guide to the American Language." And like its British counterpart, it's a common two word phrase that describes its intended audience too. Hint, the second word rhymes with Brit.
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85 john
"Anyway, allegedly Americans are referred to by some Londoners - eg some London cabbies - as 'Septics'. From 'Septic Tank = Yank'...."
Terribly non-PC these cabbies. I'm shocked!
However when being overly belligerent Americans could also be referred to as "Shermans" with the same derivation!
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#89, you seem rather single minded. A pox on you "Epoxy."
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89. At 1:50pm on 07 Sep 2009, RomeStu:
Actually Chris Rae's blog offshoot from The Septic's Companion is fun, too. Could save us a lot of bother trying to explain things ourselves.
But not "what's wrong with climbing on statues?" Kids (even American ones, I'm sure) clamber all over the lions in Trafalgar Square all the time. That's why they're so shiny. Some Henry Moores positively encourage it. And with luck, more climbing kids will eventually erode away some of the sillier statues of forgotten pompous generals we seem to have so many of.
One sees why knocking pitons into Michaelangelo's David might be discouraged, but then, I've never seen anyone try that.
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91 Never Been; American kids don't need to climb on Chicken's lions. They've got monkey bars which are better.
I'm already planning a sequel to "The Chicken's Guide to the American Language"...."The Chicken's Guide to the Galaxy."
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NO ! NO ! NO !!
NOT 'movies' - FILMS !!
There is far too much linguistic cultural imperialism and the introduction of acronyms and neologisms - please don't make your blog unreadable by early capitulation to this nonsense.
You are writing for a British audience - please don't forget that.
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Having lived in the US for a while now, I've tried in vain to speak American only to Americans. It really is absorbed very quickly. I've really noticed the difference between British recognition of Americanisms, and Americans'. Maybe it's all the 'movies' that we watch, but we know what someone means if they ask for a "gas station" in an American accent. Try asking for a "petrol station", or even worse, a "garage" and you get a blank stare over here.
It was my first three months of culture shock where I struggled the most with it all. Refusing to use American words led to confusion and infuriating misunderstandings (ever tried to order a 'cheese and tomato/margherita pizza' to 'take-away'?)
Now I'm more infuriated when friends come to visit and look at me in horror when I say 'zee' instead of 'zed', or spell out my name with a thick rolling "Rrrrr". By simply trying to be understood, I appear to be abandoning a culture and am accused of treachery.
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#94 Don't know where, don't know;
Just don't ask an American woman if she'd like you to "knock her up." At least not until you get to know her darned well.
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I'd like to take a Cockney out snipehunting. We'd need a translator, though.
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#68. Eagle-eyed DC: you deserve an explanation and you shall have one.
As a Brit (and proud of it) I've always felt that the letter z belongs in German and Italian and Spanish and Polish and Zulu and countless other languages, but not in English. This is a prejudice I share with no less a literary lion than Will himself, who coined the immortal insult: "Thou w------n zed! thou unnecessary letter!" (King Lear Act 2 Sc.2, the Earl of Kent addressing the Steward) - where "w------n" is the standard Shakespearean 8-letter epithet imputing a gentleman's parentage to a working girl, and (for the benefit of North American readers) "zed" was and is the standard British word for a z. (I've just discovered an older usage was "izzard", but I won't go there.)
Yes, I know there are British publishers who affect the z, but there are more who avoid it, and in any case it avoids having to remember which words take a z and which prohibit it, like surmise, chastise, advertise, advise, exercise ...
And I know when I'm quoting something written in American I should quote it in American; but z-avoiding publishers in the UK tend to quote z-using speakers and writers as if they'd used an s anyway; and who's to say which bits of the Urban Dictionary are written by Americans and which not in any case?
Sorry if I offend, but that's my practice!
#76. threnodio: "Another thing is that I still teach a little and it surprises me how many Europeans who have picked up their English either Stateside or from some American source, that they want to learn 'proper' English - not British English, 'proper' English. There continues to be a perception that the English speak the language 'like wot it should be spoke'."
In line with this, it's interesting that the myriad American words that have found their way into Japanese are almost without exception transcribed as if they had been taken from English - sorry, British - so you get "doa" (two syllables) instead of "doru", "heasutairu" for "hairstyle" instead of "herusutairu", "sofutouea" for "software" rather than "sofutoeru", "mastaakaado" in place of "masterukarudo".
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Also, I've observed more and more absorption of American phrases actually within the UK over the past few years, so there's no point trying to fight them while you're here. You only need to turn on BBC America to hear British teenagers saying "this sucks!" What started out as mockery seems to have found its way into daily conversation.
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Didactylid: Canadian readers will be perfectly aware of zed, as they use zed themselves. My understanding of the Canadian rule of when to use s vs. z is that words with a Greek etymology use z, and all others use s; I don't know if the same rule is used in the eastern Atlantic.
With z banished from English, how would zoo be spelled? (The z is quite convenient for Greek imports into English, just as it was into Latin.)
Are consumers of hamburgers guilty of being "eaters of broken meats"? ;*)
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A blissard kept a bussard from eating a dead sebra at a soo. Please don't call any letter useless. I love to use the letter z.
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re 90
I'm so proud. I have officially "arrived" socially on the blogosphere, for , yes, my dreams and aspirations have been fulfilled ..... I have my own Marcus Aurelius nickname. .... "sigh"!!!!
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I am Canadian, my wife was born and educated in N. Ireland. We fall some where between the British and American languages with some of our own unique speech. But spelling is still British in Canada. My wife took her Doctorate in a US University. When she submitted her dissertation it was returned to her for spelling mistakes.
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46 trueconservative, - Marcus has answered your question at 95.
48 Suirrellist - sigh - some people (see 95) just have to shout it out loud don't. Where's all the subtlety of language.
95 Marcus - I'd be interested exactly how well one should know an American woman before posing that question. My own feelings are that if you know her well enough to ask the question, then you would probably phrase it better!!!
Still it might speed things up next time I'm out on the pull in the USA ... although simply having a British accent works pretty well on it's own.
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Labour day is the day that americans do the honeydo list. that is why it is called labour day.
84 36 TC and J in d
That example of the pricing at the greengrocers .
could it be they are one step further than a vegan and are saying the Price belonging to the apple is 60 p
(i'm not saying it's right or wrong).
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Sure (as in "yes"), being in the States for the last 11 years, as much as I tried to resist, I got tired of seeing the quizzical expressions, and having to explain myself ("what do you mean you'll 'collect' me?"), followed by the inevitable mockery, and subtle put-downs so, I suppose (I mean, "I guess"), I took the path of least resistence. I am feeling vaguely defeated.
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If it were not for the letter and word "ZEE"....how would French people ever learn to speak Inglich?
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101. At 7:06pm on 07 Sep 2009, RomeStu:
Oh, yes, so you have. Jolly nice for you. Just like old times, isn't it?
What I want to know is how he can get away with the phrase I couldn't, and we ended up having to go all round the houses with? And such subtlety, too! You can almost see the club in his hairy paw, can't you? Must be the methicillin. Perhaps TC can advise.
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104. At 7:40pm on 07 Sep 2009, fluffytale
Maybe English apples are very possessive.
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Dear Mr. Mardell,
Stick to the English that is used in the United Kingdom. It is also the same English that is used in most of English-speaking world, including Canada, where I am from. Canadians take great pride in maintaining the correct spellings and pronunciations (mostly!), being metric (like most of the rest of the world), and using the date protocol that the whole planet, with the exception of the USA, uses i.e. DAY/MONTH/YEAR. America mangles the English language, a line must be drawn!!
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#99. Jan_Keeskop:
"My understanding of the Canadian rule of when to use s vs. z is that words with a Greek etymology use z, and all others use s; I don't know if the same rule is used in the eastern Atlantic.
"With z banished from English, how would zoo be spelled? (The z is quite convenient for Greek imports into English, just as it was into Latin.)"
Oh well, if you're going to spick Grick ... :-)
(Moderators please note: the "k" is there for a purpose.)
"Are consumers of hamburgers guilty of being "eaters of broken meats"? ;*)"
Sorry, not with you. (I can be quite dense sometimes.)
#100. trueconservative:
"A blissard kept a bussard from eating a dead sebra at a soo. Please don't call any letter useless. I love to use the letter z."
There is a place for a z in English, but it should be kept in its place!
#75. BienvenueEnLouisiana;
#95. MarcusAureliusII:
If Bienvenue can write about (playing safe) what she writes about and Marcusa can write about what he writes about, what CAN'T we write about? Maybe I could've gone ahead and quoted Will in his own words. I think we should be told.
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I'm an American living and working in the UK and the answer does seem obvious - when in Rome do as the Romans do. The differences are actually very minor. What's the big deal? As one of your readers pointed out: the colonists were using accepted British English at the time and then later in the 18th century the spelling of words were standardised. In addition, word usage changed, for example, "side walk" was used in Britain for ages, but then changed to pavement. The -ize ending was also in use in Britain. I think the whole "separated by a common language" is a bit over the top. Another example: unlike in Britain, fillet and herb are pronounced in French in America. At any rate, I use British spelling and colloquialisms now...when in Rome.
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#109 Dodge;
"a line must be drawn!!"
It has been. The problem is that your side keeps crossing it.
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98. At 6:26pm on 07 Sep 2009, mattf210 wrote:
Also, I've observed more and more absorption of American phrases actually within the UK over the past few years, so there's no point trying to fight them while you're here. You only need to turn on BBC America to hear British teenagers saying "this sucks!" What started out as mockery seems to have found its way into daily conversation."
It is by no means this simple. One of the biggest influences on British English at the moment is what is perceived as a Carribean accent. It isn't of course and it insults carribean people to pretend it is, but nonetheless pretending you are from Jamaica and speaking mock Jamaican is considered the ultimate in cool - except to a real jamaican of course.
Britain is the world's laboratory in the study of language development. it is considered for a example, contrary to suggestion, that certain regional accents are increasing. Public school accents, once considered de riguer, are now quite the reverse.
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Tangental (or bordering on irrelevent) but interesting I hope...
Today the Pacific Islands of Samoa changed the side of the road on which they drive ... from RIGHT to LEFT!!!!
Yes, their proximity to Australia and New Zealand (and the fact that most of their relatives live their) means that it is now much cheaper to import cheap, fuel-efficient right-hand drive cars from Oz, than to carry on importing expensive American gas-guzzlers!
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« Previous | Main | Next »
Speaking American
Mark Mardell | 22:50 UK time, Friday, 4 September 2009
"Talking to Americans, it seems rude to use a different word or even pronunciation. It seems appropriate, when trying to sort out my horrendous IT problems, to talk not about my "root-er" but my "rout-er", accepting the defeat linguistically implied."
You would be well advised not to use the former prounciation in Australia. A relative of mine at a VFL match asked a friend what team he was going to root for - and received some very strange looks.
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You should write for a British audience, and use American terms when it suits your purpose of giving insight into American life. "Labor Day" is our day, so it is spelled our way (both words are capitalized). It has nothing to do with the Labour Party.
I normally write the date: 7 Sep. 2009. There is no ambiguity when the month is spelled, and we don't get arrested in the US for using the DMY order.
Any American knows what a "film" is. You are being somewhat condescending with that comment. Certainly many Americans are somewhat informal in their use of language, but I imagine there are also many people in the UK who do not use the Queen's English. Assume an educated British audience, and educated Americans will understand you quite well.
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115
I lived for a while in Australia and remember some female colleagues jokingly refer to a promiscuous guy as "just like a Panda." Some of looked confused, and they said "look it up in the dictionary .... Panda. Animal; Eats Roots Shoots and Leaves"
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# 93 lordBeddGelert wrote:
"NO ! NO ! NO !!/NOT 'movies' - FILMS !!/There is far too much linguistic cultural imperialism and the introduction of acronyms and neologisms - please don't make your blog unreadable by early capitulation to this nonsense."
I have some sympathy with His Lordship's view. ["Up to a point, Lord BeddGelert."] I dislike British or Irish people using 'movie', and am often tempted to enquire of such people whether they've left their automobile parked next to the sidewalk.
Having said that - in my experience, movie has crept in so much that it's now pretty much interchangeable with film. C'est la vie...
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'IAFraser' - There are multiple variations in the way people write dates. In Japan for example, aside from sometimes using their own year, people write YY/MM/DD. Which has caused more confusion since the millennium as "09" could obviously be any of the three. I think consistency in these kinds of things is just good sense, and I can't help but think that DD/MM/YY just seems the most logical.
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As you seem interested in the distinction between American and British English, Mr. Mardell, I suggest you find a copy of The American Language (Fourth Edition) by H. L. Mencken, Knopf, 1919, 1921, 1923, 1936. A bit dated here and there, perhaps, but still the fundamental reference on the subject.
Second Edition of The American Language
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Here's a bit of advice for Brits in America. At an urgent moment, don't ask where the loo is. You may regret it if you do. Nobody here knows what that word means.
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Nobody im America knows what a "bathroom" means, either, MAII. They'll direct you to the loo!
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107 Squirrellist--I think it may not be the phrase so much as who happens to be reading the blog. Possibly Maria-ashot read your comment but not his.
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And another thing, when it's 3 AM and I'm flipping through the channels, the last thing I want to see or hear is some little guy with an English accent hawking some cheap contraption for chopping vegetables.
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Didactylid
The toilet is in the bathroom. Why would you tell someone what you are doing? With saying the bathroom or restroom (toilet-room would even do), you could be washing your hands, looking in the mirror or using the toilet. Loo or toilet is crude.
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124 Our ancestors fought the British so you would have right to go to bed at 3am instead of listening to stupid ads:)
(Maybe they actually had more substance to their lives; a substance which is not illegal and you are unfamiliar with).
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moionfire
"Loo" and "toilet" are not crude. They are the standard names for the facility over here. A bathroom will be equipped with a bath; it may or may not have a toilet in it.
I was accosted at our local railway station some weeks ago by a woman asking me in an American voice if I knew where the bäääthrum was. Luckily, she chose me to ask: I know some of the language. I venture to suggest that 4 out of 5 residents in this neck of the woods, if not more, would've thought she was off her rocker. Still more if she'd chosen to ask for the restroom.
And me thinks you do protest too much:
"Why would you tell someone what you are doing? With saying the bathroom or restroom (toilet-room would even do), you could be washing your hands, looking in the mirror or using the toilet."
The Oxford American Dictionary on my Mac defines "go to (or use) the bathroom" as "urinate or defecate". Now, *I* would've said this definition is unnecessarily crude ...
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Xzanron wrote:
"Whats the word you use for the 'gas' that's pumped into your houses for your central (and/or water) heating, for your ovens and for the hobs on your stoves?
We have "British Gas", a company that does not make gasoline for cars but supplies natural gas to homes (and businesses) for heating and cooking. When people in the UK say "gas" that's what they mean. What word would American's use?"
Its called "natural gas" in the USA. And for petrol we use "gasoline" or "gas" for short.
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125. At 02:39am on 08 Sep 2009, moionfire wrote:
"The toilet is in the bathroom. Why would you tell someone what you are doing? With saying the bathroom or restroom (toilet-room would even do), you could be washing your hands, looking in the mirror or using the toilet. Loo or toilet is crude."
Really? I'd find being directed to a room with only a bath or shower in it a trifle awkward if I needed to fulfil an urgent natural function. During the Notting Hill Carnival a couple of weeks ago, the local council installed a 'pissoir' temporarily in the mews round the corner from my flat and stuck a yellow sign on the lamppost outside with an arrow on it which said exactly that. Would that be very shocking in Peoria or Dubuque?
Very glad it didn't say 'bathroom', because carnival-goers hoping to have a quick shower to freshen up would have been in for a bit of a surprise. Or they might have been banging on my front door asking the way to mine.
Surely, if someone asks the way to 'the rest room' at a station or the airport, most people are going to guess you're not intending to merely freshen up your hair gel or mascara or feel an urgent need to admire yourself in a mirror? Do you ask which aisle the 'bathroom paper' or 'restroom paper' is in in WalMart by any chance?
I'm with Didactylid here . . .(I do rather like that pseudonym. Hate to think what our Marcus is going to do with it though.) Euphemisms ought to be got rid of. Or you end up with the innocuous-sounding "collateral damage" when what you mean is the brutal, unpleasant, but true "90 civilians killed by mistake."
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Didactylid: Whoops, my apologies for what might have been a non sequitur - I'd thought that "eater of broken meats" was another memorable putdown from King Lear.
mattf210: The ISO recommends YYYY-MM-DD, and I find that to be the most logical format, since it's easy to sort a list of such dates chronologically.
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123. At 02:35am on 08 Sep 2009, trueconservative wrote:
"107 Squirrellist--I think it may not be the phrase so much as who happens to be reading the blog. Possibly Maria-ashot read your comment but not his."
Mine was orphaned before it could even be read, I think, poor thing. I can hear it crying in the cold outer darkness of cyberspace somewhere.
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squirrellist
In the US 'pissoir' would be spelled 'pisser'. I wouldn't think it would be shocking, but it would be considered a childish vulgarity. Most people would just chuckle and carry on, but someone, somewhere, would take offense, sue for some kind of "mental dammages", yada yada. We call them 'port-o-john(s)', or just simply 'the john(s)'.
In Walmart, or anywhere else, it's just simply called toilet paper. T.P. for short. The PC police have been slowly getting advertisers to change that, but most stores still say "toilet paper rolls on sale, 2 for $..."
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132. At 07:32am on 08 Sep 2009, Snagletooth
It would here as well. A vulgar word for a urinal. And it would certainly not appear on a street sign. But 'pissoir' is the French name for a particular type of male public convenience. Like this rather splendid example. Though the one near my flat was sadly much more prosaic. And plastic.
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Mark:
More problematic is how I should I spell it? Should I be speaking English, or American?
1) Labour
2) English (not American)
=Dennis Junior=
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"90 civilians killed by mistake."
That is brutal truth?
You think? I thought that sort of reporting was hard core apologetics for mass murder. It would certainly seem that way if it was my family who got blown to pieces because somebody stole some petrol and somebody else decided that the indiscriminate use of multiple high explosive bombs was better than calling the cops and mounting an investigation according to the rule of law.
I don't mean to sidetrack the topic, but what if it happened to you? You know, what if it happened to a fully fledged human being, instead of "those sort of half people over there who don't get much airtime"?
If someone stole a petrol tanker in New Jersey, would that warrant a military air strike in a civilian neighbourhood? Would it even warrant the cops opening fire on the drivers?
It wasn't a "mistake". They fully intended to drop those bombs, and they knew full well that the only reason for doing so was property theft. There was no kidnapping. There were no innocent lives to be saved.
That was the mass killing of women and children because it seemed like a good idea at the time to drop huge bombs on people who steal property, with a casual disregard for civilian life. Nobody accidentally hit the "drop huge bomb" button whilst they were making a coffee. Nobody said "Drop it until the police turn up", which was mistakenly heard as "drop a huge bomb on those thieves" because of a bad connection.
It was just mass murder, unless the rules of engagement in Afghanistan allow the use of air strikes to enforce property theft. And if they do, then the reason they do is because our media describes the casual and predictable mass killing of civilians as "mistakes", and never holds anyone responsible for the brutal consequences of what they do when they are playing soldiers.
A "mistake". Sure. Try dropping several bombs that size onto the next guy who steals a truck in New Jersy, and see how far you get calling it "a mistake".
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Just wonder whether 'Brtis' (oops!) would describe the language spoken by "EastEnders" as British English, Intelligent Spoken English (yes, there is such an animal) or merely Oxonian.
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# 80. At 11:55am on 07 Sep 2009, RomeStu wrote:
"It should be noted that there is no such thing as "British" English outside the USA.
There is English and American English."
What about Canadian English, Australian English, Scots English, etc?
And note that numerous features of American English, that routinely get condemned by the "only English English is proper English" brigade are also shared with (and often derrived from) various regional British dialects.
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137 Iapetus
"What about Canadian English, Australian English, Scots English, etc?"
I have lived in Australia and Canada at various times in my life, and travelled extensively in Scotland and have never heard these terms by a native or any other. Since we have a number of Canadians on this blog, perhaps they could comment on the prevalence of "Canadian English".
I am not against the phrase "American English" to distinguish the differences from "English". I don't like "British English" because it is a tautology.
You continue
"And note that numerous features of American English, that routinely get condemned by the "only English English is proper English" brigade are also shared with (and often derrived from) various regional British dialects."
You are putting words into my mouth. As I see it, no one on this blog has suggested that "only English English is proper English". These are your words, and you are taking it all a bit too seriously relly.
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136. At 10:12am on 08 Sep 2009, powermeerkat wrote:
J"ust wonder whether 'Brtis' (oops!) would describe the language spoken by "EastEnders" as British English, Intelligent Spoken English (yes, there is such an animal) or merely Oxonian."
'Intelligent Spoken English"? Really? There certainly wasn't any such animal when I did my degree in English. (Language and Literature, btw.) There are two Oxford accents; one you'd hear in Cowley, and one you might hear at a College High Table, though the most exaggerated version of that must have disappeared soon after the War. An Oxonian is someone who comes from Oxford. What the cast speak in Eastenders is something that's come to be called 'Estuary English'.
I see people are getting confused between the spoken language and the written one. They're different in the general run of things, and the former tends to be absorbed into the latter. In 50 years, we might well be writing about 'rents' in 'British' English, but we won't mean what landlords get from letting out their properties.
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I have confined myself to contemplation of the layers of irony inherent in wishing anyone "Happy Labor Day" in a right-to-work state.
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138. At 1:24pm on 08 Sep 2009, RomeStu
Yes, I dislike it intensely as well, but we seem to be stuck with it. And what's 'International English' when it's at home? (Or abroad, as the case may be.)
Anyway, nobody has to say"only English English is proper English". (Now that's tautology for you.) Be like saying the earth goes round the sun all the time. Everybody knows that, don't they?
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Being married to an American, the word that caused the most confusion for many years was handbag. In the USA a handbag is called a purse. And they call a purse a wallet.
When writing to relatives in the USA, I always say that we have a natural gas boiler. And they aren't too sure when I refer to banning my husband to the garden shed. The idea of using a shed as a getaway never seems to have caught on over there.
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141 sqirrellist
"Be like saying the earth goes round the sun all the time"
Heretic!
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143. At 2:59pm on 08 Sep 2009, RomeStu wrote:
"Heretic!"
Oh, so sorry. (Very loudly.)
(Mutters "but it still goes round the sun though.")
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I have lived in the USA for about ten years and I have come to the conclusion that my English/English is far closer to American/English than Mexican/Spanish. My flag is red white and blue, rugby is similar to football and at a stretch, cricket is on a par with baseball. All the finer English delicacies (Tetley's, Crunchies and Weetabix) are freely available. I just have to remember to drive on the right and a "Have A Nice Day" Yep, we're all good!
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Re #139
I'll settle for Oxbridge or Etonian as a language of more and more domineering EastEnders. ;-)
Re #135
Fuel is flammable. Especially stolen one. Burning Talibs and al-Qaida types a 'human rights violation'? Just because it was Germans who called-in F-15Es?
Well, call me a cave man. At least I can live with it.
With Osama's people in charge I'm sure I'd be very, very dead.
["I've just secured a peace for our life time"- Neville what's his name.]
P.S. Please remind me, whom they've just found guilty in U.K.
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I'm an exp-pat working in Canada in the transport sector... North American "public transit" = UK "public transport". The term "mass [public] transit" refers to public transport/transit that is more than just buses (e.g. subway, light rail, etc.).
As to which one to use, it all depends on who you are talking to... if you are talking to the locoals, use the local lingo. When you are talking to Brits via the TV camera, use British English. However, if you include interviews with locals where you have to use US English, you'll need to subtley work in a 'translation'. I find that most problems occur when a word is used for two different things in the USA and UK. (e.g. "Chips")
On "root-er" vs. "rout-er"... the former is correct, because it sends signals down the right route (and think which pronoucniation you used there. The later pronounciation is for the power tool used to rout out (as in hollow out) a lump of wood in useful way. Or to put it anotehr way, the first (computer) is route-er, the second (woodwork) is rout-er.
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Welcome to the US. I followed your European blog with great interest and hope to gain insight into my own country through your comments.
My thoughts on the spelling issue are simple; you are a reporter and not a spy. English spelling, please.
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Go into a US shop (store!) and say the British "Can I have," instead of the ubiquitous "Can I get," (as if you are going to dispense with their service,) and they look at you like you are speaking a foreign language. It's easier in big cities where they are used to tourists but venture off the beaten track, especially in the south, and you become a wonder to behold with a fascinating but completely non-understandable conversation. I love it! Great fun.
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149 ace
"Go into a US shop (store!) and say the British "Can I have,"
Or even "May I have...?"
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149--I honestly can't see that you would have any trouble being understood with that phrase in my area. Especially since you use "can" not "may".
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129 Squirrellist "Euphemisms ought to be got rid of."
It's a wonder that nobody mentioned the even more delicate American euphemism "a call of nature". I wonder what sort of response that would get on your side of the Atlantic.
(Hopefully the Canadian word "washroom" is not a euphemism).
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I moved to the snow belt and decided it was time for M&S tyres. When the yellow pages yielded nothing, I thought 'these Americans must change cars to often, they never wear out the tyres'. That was one of many simplifications of the Kings English I encountered.
As far as pronunciation is concerned, when in Rome......
I do feel the American version is more often phonetically correct.
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Squirrelist,
Thanks for the photo, now I see. That structure looks permanent. We have those. We call them Public Restrooms and signs display as much. If some one put up a sign saying 'potoir' no one would even know what it means to get upset. They'd have both male and female restrooms, on either side of the building, and not so ornamental. Unless graffiti, gang tags, and 'pottie poetry' are considered ornamental.
Eourope has port-o-john's too. I've seen them in background shots on the news and in tv shows. I can't remember off hand what you call them over there. Portible plastic outhouses really . Single stall so either male or female can use them. Look like rather spartan Dr. Who phone boxes.
Speaking of outhoses, did Europeans have those, or is (was) that just an American thing?
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153 Did you look under "tyres" or "tires"? Ours do wear out eventually, although in most areas of the US snow tires aren't necessary.
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In some parts of the US those portable plastic johns are called "port-o-lets." I've assumed that the "let" is an abbreviation of "toilet." Hardly considered rude. Also, I've never heard that computer thingy pronounced "rooter" here. That word is associated mostly with Roto-Rooter, which does something entirely different.
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David_Cunard: On post 41, I have it on reliable authority (my household's Acquisitrix-in-Chief) that at least one Wal-Mart was open for business on Labor Day. I don't know whether its employees earn time-and-a-half for working on a holiday, though.
tom_p_willis: Some people in the States would pronounce your signal pathway "route" example as rout.
Sometimes the definitions have subtler differences: for example, "scheme" seems to be a neutral word in the UK, but it has at least a slightly dodgy connotation here. (The usual adjective that accompanies "scheme" here is "harebrained".) The best "translation" for UK "scheme" is "plan".
acenewsjunkie and RomeStu: I make it a point to use "May I have ..." or "Would you please ..." in my rural area shops (not just there, but that's where most of my shopping is done); the older people smile, and the younger people visibly take a second or so to adapt - but adapt they do.
What is even more jarring than "Can I get ..." is "OK, I need ..."!
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# 149 acenewsjunkie wrote:
"Go into a US shop (store!) and say the British "Can I have," instead of the ubiquitous "Can I get," ....."
In my experience, even more typically English would be 'Could I have...?' - introducing a note of conditionality and uncertainty...
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152 how "about spend a penny"
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153 plotbubba
LOL when I was a kid here my british dad had the same problem;)
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154 Snagletooth:
"Eourope has port-o-john's too. I've seen them in background shots on the news and in tv shows. I can't remember off hand what you call them over there."
Now this will really amuse you: the usual term is Port-a-Loo. I think it may even be a trade name.
Speaking of outhoses, did Europeans have those, or is (was) that just an American thing?
Older terrace houses (houses built in a row with shared walls) have them - they were very common at one time. There are plenty of slang names for them, but the standard name was "lavatory". There's another one for you!
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On Bogs because I see a few talking potty.
The Bog as a room to rest in doesn't seem very nice, well not a public bog that is.
The Russians are on the way in ,the Europeans are busy and the Finnish are washing their hands because they heard that smart guy( not the only one as we can see here sometimes) running america tell them to.
But here's the big thing . At least in the UK they have public bogs though originally they had to pay a penny (spend a penny).
And at least if the little oiks haven't ripped them off the hinges they have doors.
Now here's one for the euros.
Most american bogs have a big gap between the door and the frame of the cubicle.
This has been thoughtfully provided by those that would prefer to keep an eye on you to make sure you are not doing something you should not be.
On the all saints road they have a pub that solved the same problem by "cocking" (caulking to the brits) marbles to the top of the throne.
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157 Jan_Keeskop:
"acenewsjunkie and RomeStu: I make it a point to use 'May I have ...' or 'Would you please ...' in my rural area shops (not just there, but that's where most of my shopping is done); the older people smile, and the younger people visibly take a second or so to adapt - but adapt they do."
Maybe you're just perpetuating a stereotype? Remember "Thank you kindly" in Due South.
Sorry about the broken meats, btw. There are only so many quotations a brain can hold!
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Mark watch out for these words. the have no meaning you would understand unless you are really cynical.
FREE
Guaranteed.
Easy to use.
A1 rated.
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127. At 03:03am on 08 Sep 2009, Didactylid wrote:
"I was accosted at our local railway station some weeks ago by a woman asking me in an American voice if I knew where the bäääthrum was. Luckily, she chose me to ask: I know some of the language. I venture to suggest that 4 out of 5 residents in this neck of the woods, if not more, would've thought she was off her rocker. Still more if she'd chosen to ask for the restroom."
Personally I always get a small thrill whenever a yankee says "character". They do something to the middle of the word it is difficult to catch, but sounds extremely sexy.
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Mark:
Movies, eh? Not films? Which brings me to the heart of my dilemma. It is this: when, if ever, should I use American English words or instead of British English words?
Keep to the British English words, that I have accepted...
=Dennis Junior=
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From my point of view, there is standard American English and then there's what all you foreigners speak. Sometimes it is comprehensible to me and sometimes....well sometimes I don't have a clue what you are talking about. Once upon a time an English accent was an occasional "quaint" experience in an old Basil Rathbone movie that was a little amusing but lately I hear so much of it that these last few years it's been getting on my nerves. I really don't like the sound of it. It has however taught me to appreciate the sound of a Southern drawl a lot more than I used to. (I also speak French but I don't like thinking in that language and I find it uncomfortable, even to the point of being painful to compose my thoughts in it, my mind being organized along American language lines. So when I hear it, I don't try to understand it anymore, I've managed to tune it out.) I suppose the mirror image is equally true. I feel sorry for people who have to do most of their thinking in a foreign language, even ours.
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Didactylid: I don't know, perhaps I am - which stereotype did you have in mind?
Ah, nice Mr. Search-Engine tells me that Due South was a TV show. I've never seen it - haven't watched TV since nineteen-something-or-other.
Simon21: Your description of the middle of Yankee character has me scratching my head. I'd say that there are two main Yankee pronunciations, but they vary on the first vowel, as herald and Harold* do, sort of a "kerrick-ter" vs. "carrack-ter". Is it a stronger emphasis on the first r that you're hearing, or perhaps a slight pause between the c and the t? Or is it when it's spoken in a particular regional accent?
* - Although many Americans pronounce Harold as herald.
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#80 RomeStu:
"I was once asked by a shop assistent in San Antonio "Oh, so you're from England. What language do you speak there?" .... Imagine his surprise!"
Oh that joke is so old. :-)
Reminds me of the Canadians who will tell you about Americans who go to Canada and ask "Where are all the Eskimos?" and the Canadians reply "You're looking at one." Funny the first time, but less so the next hundred. I should know, my MIL tells me this one all the time, but it is strange how it happened to her the first time, then her friend at the next telling, then her neighbor the time after that . . . .
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Speaking of Queens, a former boss put it perfectly.
He said to me one day "Do you know what European royalty really is? Once upon a time in Europe, two men got into a fight and one beat the other to a bloody pulp. The winner then declared "I rule all and you shall call me King! And the Euros fell for it."
:-)
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154. At 8:19pm on 08 Sep 2009, Snagletooth wrote:
Squirrelist,
Thanks for the photo, now I see.
I think my rather ornate example has misled you slightly. (It's just that I rather liked that one.) They are usually more open, like this in Amsterdam while the temporary one was this modern version.
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I'm an American, and I have never been to the UK, but I still find myself writing words in their international spelling. Metre, not meter; labour, not labor, etc. I can understand all the different pronunciations of the English language...and it doesn't bug me when someone speaks in an accent. Personally I love talking to people with "foreign" accents.
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169
It may be an old joke, but it's nonetheless true in my case - San Antonio, March 1996.
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155. It took a secretary a few seconds to find the listings under 'tires'. She must have wondered if foreigners were taught to read.
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171. At 06:04am on 09 Sep 2009, squirrellist wrote:
I think my rather ornate example has misled you slightly. (It's just that I rather liked that one.) They are usually more open, like this in Amsterdam while the temporary one was this modern version.
-----
Really, wow! Yea, I don't think there's many places in the US you could get away with open air toilets like that, at least not the blue plastic one. I've personally never seen or heard of one anywhere here in the US (and I drove semi's nationwide for 10 years), but i won't go out on a limb and say there definitely aren't any.
The strange thing is, letting loose behind a tree or bush is really not a bother here in most circumstances, except in rather public (i.e. city) places where they have public urination laws. (I believe) Most people here would see that kind of urinal as (um, I'm fighting for a proper word here)...um... vulgar(?)...intrusive(?)...maybe even unsanitary (as we walk right on by it on the way to the tree line or port o potty). We have a hangup about toilets being behind closed doors. I know it's probably silly, even contradictory (the tree thing, and can anyone else remember the urinal trough at sporting venues in the 70's), but there it is.
Don't read to much into my use of vulgar, it's not an insult to Europeans. Just keep in mind we are a conservative nation, even the most lefty-lefters would probably be considered conservative in most European circles.
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170. At 05:53am on 09 Sep 2009, kcwhattrick:
A little simplistic. Some were elected; many gained the position through deals and negotiation. And I might remind you that many Americans with African ancestry may have come from regions which had hereditary kings, chiefs or Emirs.
Not to mention those Americans who are Jewish, of course. The Bible is full of Kings.
Anyway, what is a Presidential election but a form of bloodless single combat?
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As an American who has lived in the UK for three years, I can definitely sympathize. However thanks to good old American cultural imperialism, there are few words that I've had to make the switch for. I'll always say 'flat' instead of 'apartment' or 'mobile' instead of 'cell phone', but I still use elevator and truck, because I often hear British people themselves use these American words. The reality is that although they may not use them, British people will always understand American words because they constantly hear them in television, music and movies. But of course this doesn't apply the other way around, most Americans have never heard of exclusively British words. I suppose it's rather unfair, as I get to keep using my native language while I'm here, but you'll have no choice but to 'speak American' while there. You have my sympathies!
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177. At 10:33am on 09 Sep 2009, gulfstreamblues wrote:
"I suppose it's rather unfair, as I get to keep using my native language while I'm here"
I'd forgotten about this one, because they're only really in fashion in the City, or, almost as bad, among a few skinheads, but the first time I heard an American bloke mention 'suspenders' I wondered why on earth he apparently seemed about to embark publicly on the secrets of his bedroom. . .
Since Americans have a reputation for being rather more open with strangers than we are, I was agog with expectation.
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I am reminded of what a ex-pat brit friend told me, when the second Austin Powers movie came out. "They'll never let the film be named 'The Spy Whoe Sha**ed Me!" (Hope this makes it past the mods! lol!)
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The English have bathrooms without access to a toilet?
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I worked for an English-based corporation for many years. What I enjoyed was the diversity of speech, culture, and ideas. There were employees from many parts of the world; and for me, it was a continuation of a "learning curve" where I found myself automatically spelling words in an English manner, i.e., labour. As an American, I have found "American English" deteriorating ("aint" that the truth?) and the "Brits" I worked with challenged my desire for "proper English." Don't get me wrong; there are many Americans who try very hard to speak "proper English." And not all Brits qualify, either. It was fun among my associates to debate differences openly and honestly. A happy medium was always reached!
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Today nobody will have any trouble writing out the date: 09/09/09. I guess it's one day when we can all agree on the date.
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I use British English although I am an American. I was constantly told at my former job I was misspelling words( that "Colour doesn't have a u!")and when I would explain that yes it did, they gave in. My sister was informed by a College professor that if she continued to use British English and grammar in her work she would fail. The Professor told her yes it was proper, BUT the rules for passing meant American English only.
I refuse to be "dumbed down" just to try and fit in. Up until Teddy Roosevelt Americans used British English.
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English living in CA for 22 yrs.
Kindly, my simple advice would be "when in Rome". We don't speak 'English' here we speak 'American English'....and it is a different language. So i'm afraid from now on anything else would be insulting, even if it is found to be "cute"....but don't worry they'll "still love your accent". :)
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Heres one.
The right claim they are debating health care.
They obviously never learned what debate or/and health care mean . because this scream fest is more about paranoia than health.
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180 the BATH was in the BATH room and the Toilet was in the.....
Though to be honest nowadays what with all the american influence, they do also go for the all in one, then argue about it solution so popular in the states.
Shame really.
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180 proceednet:
"The English have bathrooms without access to a toilet?"
Access to the toilet is through a separate door. (Sometimes I feel like I'm explaining things to a Martian.)
In many, if not most houses in the UK you will find the bathroom and toilet kept separate. For starters, this is more sanitary, is it not? And secondly, it allows you to enjoy a nice long soak without preventing other people from using the facilities.
When a building is converted into flats (apartments, to you), this will not usually be the case. I assume this is because of space considerations or (dare I say it?) money.
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169 it's not a joke. Unfortunately.
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170. At 05:53am on 09 Sep 2009, kcwhattrick wrote:
Speaking of Queens, a former boss put it perfectly.
He said to me one day "Do you know what american democracy really is? Once upon a time in america, two men got into a fight and one beat the other to a bloody pulp. The winner then declared "I rule all and you shall call me president! And the yanks fell for it."
:-)
I assume he was a brit
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"Really, wow! Yea, I don't think there's many places in the US you could get away with open air toilets like that, at least not the blue plastic one. I've personally never seen or heard of one anywhere here in the US (and I drove semi's nationwide for 10 years), but i won't go out on a limb and say there definitely aren't any."
snaggle tooth.
LOL that's because in the US they just open the truck door and pee next to the front wheel.
Your car parks are the bog.
Oh and I've seen that all over the states.
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"We have a hangup about toilets being behind closed doors"
Really is that why you don't use doors.
Uninals is one thing but open seating on the throne is a bit much.
"Traditional toilet stalls can have up to a half-inch gap at the sides of the door. Bradley's No Site European-style partitions close the gap for a more private enclosure"http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/545598
"Toilet Stalls--With And Without Doors email this discussion to a friend?
myLot reputation of 91/100. AJ1952Chats (1126) ranked 724 out of 17,541 in questions & answers 1 year ago
IMO, we women have it good because it's required by law that we have doors with locks on our stalls in a multi-stalled public restroom.
However, men's multi-stalled restrooms often not only don't have locks on the doors but, also, no doors--period!
While some men don't seem to care, there are others who aren't really comfortable with this arrangement, and I can't say that I blame them.
Let's discuss why it's commonplace not to have doors on the stalls in men's restrooms."
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/1647970.aspx
apparently I'm not the only one that noticed.
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"Oh, so you're from England. What language do you speak there?"
Here's the other side of the coin:
A chemist's (and I'm not even going to try to remember what the American term was) in suburban SF (Parnassus Heights, since you ask). I had gone in to buy some things for an expat of my acquaintance back on London. Aware that I might be a little out of my depth, I pointed out to the sales assistant that, as I was English, we might be in for some communication problems.
Her response? "That's OK: I understand your language."
Ever since - and this was ten years ago - I've been trying to figure out just exactly what she meant. There was no animus behind it (in California, there never is), but at the time I was lost for words as to how to take it, and concentrated on effecting my purchases ...
There's also the American teenager (and OK, I'm aware teenagers should not be taken as representative) with whom a friend of mine fell into conversation in a chat room a while back. This is a true story. Independence Day was in the offing, and my friend was asked whether Independence Day was celebrated in England. Really.
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Didactylid: chemist's = pharmacy.
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didactylid
"asked whether Independence Day was celebrated in England."
lol just call it another name "got rid of the idiots day"
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As the British audience is your main target, I suggest that you use British words, unless referring to a specific American holiday (Labor Day, ect.), in which you should use the correct terminology. I think the British language is unique and fascinating. It is like a foreign language in some ways to our Americanized English. Never sell our your homeland or your tradition. We may not always understand what you say or vice versa, but as Shakespeare said, "Be true to thineself."
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Sorry, I meant never sell out your homeland or your tradition. If you do, it is hard to back-track.
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I recall Justin Webb (unintentionally) left his American readers confused (myself included) in an entry he posted several months ago. He referred to right-wing evangelical Christians in the U.S. as "bible-bashers". In the states, we call them "bible-thumpers". To 'bash' means to ridicule and criticize. Justin Webb made a correction in the entry that followed; until he did, I could not understand why evangelicals were bashing the Bible!
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194. At 4:52pm on 09 Sep 2009, fluffytale wrote:
didactylid
"asked whether Independence Day was celebrated in England."
lol just call it another name "got rid of the idiots day"
LOL. (Oh, do I feel Marcky treading on my tail again? How come he's escaped from his auntie's again?)
I've noticed lots of Americans in London do. Hang out flags even. Don't see it with the French on Bastille Day though, and there are probably as many French in London, if not more. Pity, I'd like a London Bastille Day. Better food.
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197. At 6:19pm on 09 Sep 2009, Brendan4816 wrote:
You thump people and bash things.
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"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."
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Fluffytale,
"LOL that's because in the US they just open the truck door and pee next to the front wheel.
Your car parks are the bog.
Oh and I've seen that all over the states."
-----
can't say that I disagree with you, as I did point out that contradiction (although I used trees, but same point). The smell of a truck stop parking lot in August is...well... I did say I pointed out that contradiction, right?
"Really is that why you don't use doors.
Uninals is one thing but open seating on the throne is a bit much."
-----
We do use doors on stalls. As one pointed out in the blog/forum you linked to, there are some exceptions. Namely either rip off do to vandalism, or were taken off as a response to drugs or violent crime.
Individual urinals aren't usually behind doors, but partitions are becoming more common. Anyway, all of this is behind some system of doors or partitions, out of view of the general public.
Note to self: be careful of how one answers even lighthearted threads, as one may find themselves arguing something REALLY silly like whether or not we use doors on our public stalls! LOL
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Are allmymarbles and Hesiodos playing Quaker, or where are they?
(In case anybody doesn't know, "Quaker" is a game where people try to stay quiet longer than anybody else in the room. Parent teach it to their noisy little children.)
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202. At 8:44pm on 09 Sep 2009, trueconservative wrote:
Don't know about allmymarbles, but I think Hesiodos, sadly, may have been a victim of what we might call "a U-boat event". It appears that returning after that can be as difficult as raising the Titanic. (I know the Lusitania might have been a more apt example, but I think that's a war grave, so it can't be, ever.)
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201. At 7:32pm on 09 Sep 2009, Snagletooth wrote:
"Note to self: be careful of how one answers even lighthearted threads, as one may find themselves arguing something REALLY silly like whether or not we use doors on our public stalls! LOL"
Well, why not? At least people haven't started screaming that loo doors with gaps in them are a socialist/anti-socialist/fascist/anti-fascist plot, a lie, or rugged individualists should be happy to carry their own doors with them when they go to the loo, or rent them out at exorbitant fees to keep capitalism going.
As is happening elsewhere on this blog at the moment. It's a blessed relief.
(Sorry.)
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204. At 9:31pm on 09 Sep 2009, squirrellist wrote:
Well, why not? At least people haven't started screaming that loo doors with gaps in them are a socialist/anti-socialist/fascist/anti-fascist plot, a lie, or rugged individualists should be happy to carry their own doors with them when they go to the loo, or rent them out at exorbitant fees to keep capitalism going.
As is happening elsewhere on this blog at the moment. It's a blessed relief.
(Sorry.)
------
ROTFLMAO!!!
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Lowe and Behold;
"I refuse to be "dumbed down""
Seems to me you already have. And it was deliberately self inflicted which only makes it worse.
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#204 No, thankfully, he's not. (see this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/profile/?userid=13883977)
But he hasn't published anything on here for a month, sadly:(
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207, trueconservative wrote:
"But he hasn't published anything on here for a month"
That should actually tell you something. Nor will I be now, having, shall we say, felt a disturbance in the water. But I have enjoyed your posts. Good luck.
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Dear Mr. Mardell,
Speak to us as you feel most comfortable. Trust us. We'll figure it out. After all, if we use this site regularly, we must have *some* familiarity with UK English, right?
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RomeStu wrote
"However my interest is most definitely "peeked" (my speech marks) by the possible other meaning for "nipper" ... it's only ever meant a small child in my book."
The word you are looking for is "PIQUED"
"Peeked" has an entirely different meaning - to have a quick, or sneaky look at, like someone elses answers in an exam.
I also am a transpanted Brit, although a US citizen now, having been here for almost 19 years, and I agree with another blogger here about the use (or misuse) of apostrophes in plural words - the Americans, by and large, are rather lacking when it comes to grammar. I confess I'm a little anal about spelling and grammar and these are things that tick me off to this day, especially when I see them in books, newspapers and magazines, which have supposedly been proof read. "I should of done that" for instance - for heavens sake, it's "I should have done that" - this one drives me crazy! You see it all the time over here.
One more I see a lot of is the use of brackets, or parentheses in a sentence. In English Grammar we were taught that a sentence should make absolute sense when the words in parantheses are pronounced (or read), or not pronounced. Many, many times over here you can read a sentence that is gobblededook when read without the bracketed words.
Apart from all their grammatical faults and other little foibles about restrooms/bathrooms/toilets, the American people are usually a delight to be with, as they are generally very polite and openly friendly. I have an equal mix of British and American friends - I take the mick out of the "septics" and they do the same to the funny speaking "furriner". I have a lot of fun with them. I am really happy to be living over here.
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206. At 11:00pm on 09 Sep 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Lowe and Behold;
Maybe it should be Home Depot and behold...???
It is "Lo" and behold (even in "American" English)
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"For americans who want to pay for other peoples healtcare/insurace there is nothing stopping them just writing a cheque right now.
Obama is asking for a law that will take away that choice and force some people to pay for other peoples healthcare (which may even be at the expense of their own).
Its morally wrong."
CLEAR PROOF AMERICANS SPEAK A DIFFERENT LANGUAGE.
PS got a new Motor.
Get me motor going.
Motor for Car is not used much. Most of the time I use it I have to change to car so they understand.
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Smnaggle I'm with the squirrel on the bog doors.
I just thought I would correct the impression you were giving them in Europe about your toilets being behind closed doors.
When I was in the netherlands I asked a guy where the public toilets were.
he said" just go in an alley" (I was in leiden not amdam)
I said " that's fine for me but what about he girls?"
He looked at me like I'd come from mars. he had never thought of that.
So it's not just the states.;)(they started putting "pissoirs" up in london I heard. ones that pop out of the ground?
As to hes ED and all the U numbers that were created under the "leadership" of JW.
I ask that they be allowed back to post again.
under their first names.
The disgusting standards of moderation may have been addressed behind closed doors but I for one would like to know what ED thinks on the topic. I miss my Wendle berrry.
Reinstate those U numbers that were culled as a result of the poor moderation standards.
ED
or/and HES.
jacksforge, wandering angus, dominick villa, et all
The manipulation was exposed.
Redeem yourselves.
Mark mardell. this issue has plagued this site for a long time there is still a lot of animosity about the handling of this affair.
We still have the mad rants of some that were never banned.
never U out.
and the question occasionally raises it's head. Though normally by reference rather than direct.
If there is not censorship why have they been banned without right to reply or defend.
And if there is censorship then why do we have to listen to the lies from repeat spam writing blowhards that promote hate most of the time.
Either bring back and announce to the unfortunate U's they can return or rid us of having the same old.
"jimmy carter this tutu that." "Europe deserves to be nuked" crowd.
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HumbleTxBrit (#211) "It is "Lo" and behold ... "
You are correct, of course, but MAII was merely making one of his puerile jokes on someone's screen name, which is his habit, rather than making an ordinary error.
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As I recall from Robert MacNeil's Story of English, lots of immigrants came from central and eastern Europe around the turn of the twentieth century and learnt English from a dictionary. This was obvious in the North East where we heard terms like two times instead of twice and 10 of 4 instead of 10 to 4.
American English is English as a 2nd language.
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Well I can see my joke about European royalty didn't sit well with Squirrellist at all. LOL
I thought Brits were supposed to have a really good sense of humor. Maybe someday they'll show it. :-)
And the way I see it, American/Canadian/Australian/whatever English keeps the English language alive and going.
After all, we mere colonials could have chosen another language to speak just to spite Mother Britain. Something like French would have been quite nice. Far more cultured and easier on the ears, I think.
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Go easy on yourself. Americans love 'engrish' even when it comes from a native english speaker. With your accent no American should give you a hard time if they hear you refer to petrol rather than gas. It may indeed confuse them but you'll both have a laugh afterwards. As you and your readers know well, never correct/criticize an American over language usage or you're likely to get an earfull about the King and 1776 and all that.
Americans love all things 'exotic' and anyone with an accent fits that description.
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MA was called mostly erroneous for a while then mostly just crazy.
there's always the easy rear ended jokes (should have kept his eyes on the road.
Problem is only that for some resone the jokes made of his names lead to the person getting referred but not so for the kid from waltons mountain.
I wonder where his aunty is.
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To democracythreat re #62
JK Rowling most emphatically does NOT divide the world into pure good and pure evil. [As an aside, that was Dick Cheney's specialty (or "speciality" for the British, Canadians and Indians)].
The Harry Potter books in fact are superb in showing how the potential for both good and bad reside in every single one of us, with the choice being in our own hands, and our own actions eventually determining whether the result is good or evil. Without giving too much away, Book 7 in particular showed how nuanced the difference between the two can be. To me Deathly Hallows was a masterpiece and the the whole series was truly a tour de force.
Anyhow, it seems unfair to criticize (criticise?) the HP books without even reading them. But in the end the only loser is yourself for not having done so.
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Re $36 & 84
I've come across some peculiar written English habits in England too, such as using "of" for " 've", as in:
"I should of gone to the theatre "
instead of
" I should've gone to the theatre ".
On the other hand, an Americanism that I find off-putting is "got" for "have" as in:
"What do you got in your bag"
rather than
"What do you have in your bag?".
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Having so far lived in 4 different countries, in 2 different continents, I understand what it means to slip in foreign "local" words into English sentences. I believe that it is part of the process of adapting to a foreign culture. This might be off-putting to some who have never lived as a foreigner far away from home, but to me it is like extending one's comfort zone, adjusting and accepting the host country's culture and in the process gaining a new dimension in one's own character.
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Mark, when in a foreign country you should write and speak the foreign language. Its that simply, unless you want to be misunderstood.
I write technical reports and email endlessly for work. I can assure you I have had my English corrected many times over. Americans believe that their English is the correct English. Spelling, grammar and definition. When I tell them I am English and I write and speak English, they just laugh. They want it the way Americans do it. This has happened so many times it seems to be a universal belief among the technical people I work with. The fact they may be insulting someone from a foreign country doesn't enter their heads. From this you can grasp why American foreign policy and diplomacy is so dreadful. Americans simply, do not have respect for other countries or other people.
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222 justme.
dare, I mention the selfless metal.
aluminum.
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As an American who worked for NATO, the UN, and the European Commission at various points in my life- I am sympathetic. On several occasions I had Brit bosses who insisted on "correcting" my English. We finally adopted a simple rule- either usage was considered correct but the usage had to be consistent. So you could not write. "Please give me a cheque for the program" or "Remove the tire from the boot " In return us Americans promised not to sing "The Battle of New Orleans" ay every party.
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I've just been reading an American novel and been reminded of one I've always thought is really strange, but had forgotten. Why does an American house have a 'story' instead of a 'storey'?
Is it because American walls have more tales to tell than English ones?
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224. At 12:58pm on 12 Sep 2009, Tomskycat
Well, if it was a computer 'program' you would write a 'cheque' for it. (My apparently lone, but selfless, attempts to get 'computer programme' into use seem to have met with little success. Though we still buy a 'programme' in the theatre.)
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squirrellist: An American building has a story rather than a storey so that it can be stocked with whiskey rather than whisky. It's just a matter of E-allocation. ;*)
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227. Jan_Keeskop
Oh I see.
They have quotas then, because English-English is an immigrant language? I never knew that.
(I really do wish someone would fix these blogs so I don't have to backspace every time. My delete key's getting worn out. It only says "d l t" now.)
(Oh, I must have gone over my e-quota.)
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227 jan
The "e" allocation in Whisk(e)y simply denotes its origin.
Scotch Whisky (also Canadian and Japanese ... yes really)
Irish WhiskEy (and American too)
I guess more Irish emigrated to the US and more Scots to Canada.
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squirrellist: Quotas? I think that allocation merely implies a budget rather than quotas. There might be U-quotas in English-English for domestically produced words there, though: colour, [typesetting] fount, mould, &c.
RomeStu: Yes, post 227 was my attempt at humour. I didn't know that there were Japanese whiskies; I never acquired a taste for whiskies, regardless of their E-content.
On a percentage basis, I think that you're right with Irish to the US and Scots to Canada. In my view, the "Canadian raising" that occurs with "ou" in about the house in much of Canada is due to Scots influence.
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230. At 5:31pm on 13 Sep 2009, Jan_Keeskop
Well I thought it was funny. (But since I've recently been informed everything I post is 'absurd'', maybe you'd better ignore me.)
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squirrellist: Me, I'd dread being doomed to never-ending surdity. (Surdness? Surditude?)
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Just saw this and haven't had time to read all the comments.
I'm an American teaching English in eastern Europe (so I also was "laboring on Labor Day" planning lessons). The largest national group at this large language school is, in fact, UK citizens, so on our internet boards there has been some discussion of British versus American English (and I think it's legitimate to distinguish the two adjectivally). Someone, a Brit I assume, put together a list based on our textbooks and things he'd encountered about British uses versus American. The interesting thing was, I think we Americans do use many of the words that he thought were British usage. For instance, the "taxi" example-- no one would say, "Call a taxi," the alliterative common-use phrase is "call a cab" -- but they would refer to it as a taxi as well. Even check out the game show Cash Cab - the host will sometimes refer to it as his taxi. Similarly with candy (US) versus sweets (UK)-- an American will, I think, generally know what "sweets" are and will sometimes refer to candy that way. When my grandmother was thinking of opening a fudge business, she intended to use "sweets" in the name.
One of our textbooks even claims that Americans exclusively use "store" for "shop"-- we use both! There are also elements of regionalism here, too. There are quite a few British accents within a compact amount of space; throw in time, separation, and foreign influences over a vast geographic area and you'll find some HUGE differences. In my home area (Massachusetts), for instance, we say "scallops" like Brits do (with the "aw" sound), but in most of the rest of the country it's a short A "scallops."
I think with movies, tv (hello BBC America and also Gordon Ramsay), and books "crossing the pond" at a rapid rate, many Americans do have an idea what "petrol" is (common root "petroleum gas"- Brits use "petrol" we use "gas" - it's not that difficult), as well as familiarity with other expressions. And on the bright side most of the words we do use the same way, so if you can't understand something, you can figure it out much more easily than were you trying to communicate with a completely foreign language.
In most US science text books around age 12 there's an example of squirrels in the Grand Canyon-- a species group was separated on opposite sides way back when and now look significantly different from each other in coloring, etc., because of the dominant traits. But genetically they're still the same species. That's how I view the differences-- our language may seem quite a bit different but we call came from the same place.
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I have lived with my American wife here in the U.S. for over two years and as an Englishman I often find communication is often a one way road , I understand them but they look mystified at me every time I open my mouth. For example not so long ago my wife and I were sat in a restaurant in Illinois and I asked the waiter for a beer, he replied " Ya wanna a what buddie?"
The truth is I use American words or slang every day to communicate, stupid not to really, no work would get down otherwise.
I will honestly say that it is anoying that a British person seems to have no problem understanding Americans, Australians and every other English speaking country yet the U.S. seems to have so much difficulty, are we asking to much or to borrow an American expression are they just dumb asses!
Have a nice day.
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233. Nzie12:
'Sweets' aren't necessarily 'candies'. Where I was brought up in England, sweets are 'toffees'. (Not to be confused with 'toffee', singular, which is the sticky caramel stuff that glues your teeth together.)
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For the love of God,please, if you are in America and you happen upon a "fag", DON'T SMOKE IT !!!!
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You got it mister, In The USA or America everyone gets to savor the inhospitable and non forgiving manner of treatment.
Once it becomes obvious that a person is from somewhere else, then the fun begins.
Sort of like batting practice before a baseball game. You may be "home slice" in one neighborhood(sarcastic and referring to be eaten) while in another area sir(sometimes eluding to a portion of excrement) by some. Sort of like when called 'Boss' 'Like in hey Boss' most people know that the Boss is an ass. From what I understand, there has not been a fully written set of rules to follow using the English grammar. One thing which is difficult to understand is the 'separate but equal' premise. There are words that as of recently been taken out of most dictionaries, mostly what are now politically correct terms. That part is weird because if the words are no longer referred to, then how to recognize them in order not to use them is also complicated. ever since we learned how to master the English language, even without all the rules it has become ever so difficult for people to say anything without it sounding like a negotiation is happening. You are lucky, well at least when you are part of the cast in any movie or cinema, your British accent is well accepted.
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