MEP's expenses probed
Politics, like comedy, is all in the timing.
It feels a bit like arriving back at school a day before everyone else: the Strasbourg parliament isn't exactly deserted, but fewer than usual tread its vast cavernous halls of glass and tropical creepers. 
MEPs had Monday off for Orthodox Easter, but I am here to do some interviews in advance of TV pieces and to knock off a few "explainers" for our coverage of the European elections.
One of the pieces I am making goes under the working title "MEPs: are they worth it?" And the latest instalment in the saga about expenses has been written today by the Crown Prosecution Service. They have advised the police to charge one-time UKIP MEP Tom Wise and his former researcher Lindsay Jenkins with one count each of false accounting contrary to the Theft Act 1968 and one count each of money laundering contrary to the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002.
Derek Frame, reviewing lawyer, CPS Special Crime Division, said: "Following the publication of a news article in October 2005 relating to Mr Wise and Ms Jenkins, the European Anti-Fraud Office (OLAF) began an investigation into Mr Wise's use of allowances. OLAF subsequently passed the investigation to Bedfordshire Police Economic Crime Unit for investigation".
Mr Wise, who says he will stand in the June elections as an independent, denies the charges and his solicitor says it's "scandalous" that he has been charged: he's put this statement on Youtube.
UKIP's leader Nigel Farage told me he acted quickly and expelled Mr Wise from the party when the allegations first surfaced some years ago. "I had no hesitation in getting rid of him. Contrast what we've done to other parties: there's an MEP here from one of the two big parties who's been asked to repay half a million pounds and yet that party keeps him here. When we have problems we deal with them very harshly indeed."
But he's hinting there are political dirty tricks behind the timing of the charges. "It's extraordinary. This has been going on for three years and yet 38 days before the European election he is going to appear in the magistrates court. I would have to be politically naive if I didn't think there was a certain political element to this."
So could he spell out what he thought was going on? "You'll have to ask that question to the CPS, but the timing is pretty extraordinary. You know he has been bailed and re-bailed, it could have come to court six months ago."
I have asked the CPS and will let you know what they say when they come back to me.
UPDATE (1650): The Crown Prosecution Service say: "We are an independent prosecution authority and once we have made a decision we are obliged to inform those concerned at the earliest opportunity".
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~31~RS~)
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'explainers' ? Are these what used to be known as 'explanations' ?
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Hqng on, Mark: stand again? the about Tom page on his website, http://www.tomwisemep.co.uk/tomwise/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=32 says: "As you can probably conclude, I will not be offering myself as a candidate in the forthcoming EU elections for any other party but will continue to fight for the cause I so passionately espouse. "
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As you say, Mark it's all in the timing.
If they have waited so long to take this step against Mr Wise, why couldn't CPS have waited a little longer, (till the day after the European elections) to press charges.
Mr W is not necessarily innocent of fraudulent crime, and policy may be to prosecute as soon as sufficient evidence has been collated.
Nevertheless, bearing in mind the Brown admiknistration's poor track record on truth, openness (or rather the lack of it), and the use of propaganda (some call it "spin"), one does wonder about the timing of this move by CPS.
As a result, it adds extra suspicion about more government sleaze, as well as discrediting Tom Wise and his former European party.
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I agree with reform on expenses in the Parliament but I think the Commision and the Parliament who will decide on whether checks be made for UK MEP's by the EU or the UK.
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"European party"? I aren't UKIP were anti-EU, but pro-Europe, Newsjock?
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Well there is a surprise. 38 days before the elections when this could have been taken to court earlier. I'd put nothing past labour and their spin machine. However, you have to accept that the CPS in Bedfordshire are independent of the 'Labour old boys network', because to not accept that then it would lead one to believe that there is some form of skulduggary going on. I would prefer to believe that the CPS are innocent of that charge. We, the public, cannot make up our mind on this unless we have all of the facts. When was the case passed onto Bedfordshire police from OLAF and when did Bedfordshire police pass this onto the CPS? Why was Mr. Wise bailed twice? Until these questions are answered then everything is just supposition.
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Mr Mardell this article is perfect fodder for anti-EU people such as myself even though the alleged 'villain' of the piece is a former UK MEP.
No doubt the CPS will make their decision in due course and justice will be served one way or another: Are we able to say/report the same of the Police and Prosecuting authorities across the other 26 EU Nations where their MEPs are suspected of wrongdoing?
I do not have the facts to support a 'yes' or 'no'.
My only observation is how fortunate all our neighbours must be in their EU Representatives for the integrity and honesty of MEPs on the mainland appears extraordinarily high. According to EU records whilst 3 MEPs have resigned after being criticised for 'inappropriate conduct' not one single MEP has been prosecuted in the last 7 years. Truly a remarkably encouraging statistic.
If, even for a moment it bore any relation to the deceitful performances by internationally renowned circus acts under the big-top in Brussels I would acknowledge this high-wire probity amongst the EU elite.
UKIP are not the Party for me despite my antipathy to the EU, however, I am inclined to believe Mr Farage is right when he alludes to "dirty tricks" in the "timing" of the charges laid against a former member of his anti-EU Party. Afterall, there is a certain Home Secretary not so very far from Brussels whose 2nd home expenses claims make Mr Wise's alleged misdemeanours exactly that, but then, how would the Minister for Justice go about instructing their CPS to prosecute their Ministerial equal from across the corridor of the same Department!?
I will try to ask the CPS, however, I suspect that unlike you Mr Mardell, they will not hurry to get back to me!
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Just remember the lack of fairness in the voting in the Eurovision Song Contest!
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TO UKIP:
I have seen you advert. I don't really like it. I vote UKIP but am not a member.
1) There is too much purple in it. I find it visually unpleasant.
2) You've got Winston Churchill in it. I think that this gives ammunition to those who claim that we are living in the past and are too obsessed with WWII. I think young people will fund it unappealing.
3) How about some skimpily clad girls to get peoples attention?
4) For TV ads how about: A man and a woman are in bed having sex. She is groaning something in some continental language. It appears to be good! He breaks off and says to the camera in an English (or Scottish or Welsh) accent: "I am all in favour of cooperating with the continentals. We don't need the 'EU' to do that!"
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Mark, congratulations..
dont let these kind of people sleep in their job. they may say they are independent but sleeping in duty just shows their incompetency.
everyone needs a break, but not a paid break.
there is more charlatans like this guy, they just need to be discovered, the pro-EU elites together with their payrolls dont like this at all..
I hope in this elections, only 10% takes part and all vote pro-EU, what a victory will it be for our proEU payrolls, is like they get elected by their own vote. or like the FED or ECB printing money to buy own debt that dont exist since no country will lend their goods in exchange for 'easy' money.. without pricing up the goods so that it makes sure you dont buy more than you can afford, since you already bought more than you could afford before.
Now, to all pro-EU payrolls, how long will it last this corrupt system of EUSSR with this level of money laundering, and frauds, and unfair bonuses, lavish salaries, self-approved allowances, and retirement packages, which can only be garanteed by 2 factors:
1) if the next generation of leaders is pro-EU
2) if the youth or the working force has the willingness and ability to generate wealth to sustain pro-EU elites, lovers, opportunists, puppets etc.
According to my calculations, it will not take long, and the system will collapse. It is collapsing. EU is collapsing.
The next EU elections will show two things.
1) low interest (less than 20% of people voting)
or,
2) a manipulated voting result, by fraud, were we will see a 45-50% of people voting.
people vote once, people voted twice and they were not listened by the elites, and i mean about EU constitution and Lisbon treaty, which are same thing.
Now people will ask themselves, whats the point of voting?
and this proves my theory, that if you dont vote, you will get heard more. Boyccot EU and you will win. Ignore them and you will win.
there is nothing to lose, since voting result is not respected.
dont legitimate, the illegal elites holding on to power, where it is obvious they should go, they are the problem.
why youth unemployment is higher? because these elites and all pro-EU puppets want jobs for life, want status quo, and hate democracy.. only anarchy can bring new people, and a new direction.
young people are discourage everyday by this system of elites, their dreams are postponed for who knows when by many layers of this system, and the top layer is the hardest to be removed, they are the elites.
unfair rules, regulations, qualifications, certificates, etc, etc, all this to steal our time, all this one our way, so the elites can enjoy their vacations..
unless your name starts with 'B'=Barroso you are born not lucky :)
please pro-EU payrolls, take it easy, i am just joking.. nothing is true of what i say.
we know better, you know nothing.
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why i am or many others like me are EUsceptics?
if things were really good or going from good to better, i will not be an EUsceptic at all.. but facts show that we are going from bad to worse.. this is why i am a EU sceptic.
why you are a pro-EUsupporter?
because you like things go like this, since there depends your lavish life style.
mine not.. that's why i dont see a need for EU, for me EU was a burden..
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to make it clear what i mean in comment # 11 for all pro-EU payrolls,
'of course the Pope will say that God exist. Even if he may not beleive in it or has clear proof of its non-existence'
why?
he makes a living out of it :)
this is with you pro-EU supporters :)
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why religions were created?
so people dont use the logic.
why political parties were created?
so people dont use the logic.
BUT DO WHAT THEY ARE TOLD TO DO.
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some pro-EU payrolls can through mad on China, as they always do with people.. because China is not an Eldorado for them, best they can get there is cleaning job.
Maybe China is bad, but its an Eldorado for me.
What if Barroso had to emigrate to China, what job would he get with his over qualified credentials and qualifications?
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Who is this MEP Nigel Farage refers to who has been asked to repay £1/2m? Are we allowed to know?
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How about a probe on the attempt of Euro MPs to use taxpayers' money to compensate themselves for stock market losses on their pension plans?
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#15, valdan70,
A very valid point, but why stop there, lets see the expense claims of all MEP's being made public, I'm sure the expression "can of worms" would instantly spring to mind as the truth of the gravy train was revealed, therefore I feel that it is highly unlikely those with their snouts in the trough will ever permit the details of the expense claims to be released. Tom Wise seems to be merely a sacrificial lamb put forward to make it appear corruption is being fought, a bit like a certain (Labour) anti corruption commissioner's early actions was to fire a whistle blower within his own department some years back in Brussels.
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SuffolkBoy2,
Your proposal for UKIP TV ad actually sums up quite well the attitude of many British towards Europe, not only the EU. For many litle Englanders the 'cooperaton' with Europe as they see it is a picture of a drunken Englishman on a stag-night somewhere in Europe, 'giving-it' to an European woman. Cleverly however, you insisted on the guy being British, as the opposite scenario would not have gone well with the UKIP voters.
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Can the CPS also charge him for writing rubbish on his web page?:-)) I followed the link from Mark's comments above and his web page was drivel. How did anyone vote for him? Are the rest of UKIP candidates as high calibre as him?:-))
Uf, please let him keep the money and some one please vote for him again but Mark please promise to update us on his progress and contribution through out his next period in parliament.
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So - just to be clear, you understand - the UKIP is an organ of the UK eurosceptic movement which would have us believe that the EU is a corrupt and wasteful organisation and that it is opposed not only to British membership but to the whole idea of a European parliament. Mr. Wise represented that organisation at the EP. What's more, as if to underline the point, Mr. Farrage says "I had no hesitation in getting rid of him". This is before the Bedfordshire police had completed their enquiry and before the CPS had made a decision regarding prosecution.
So the UKIP is an organisation which makes itself available for election to an institution it seeks to abolish by fielding candidates who may or may not have committed an offence then get's rid of them without any evidence or charges being placed. OK, I think I am with it so far.
Now comes the tricky bit. They expect people to vote for them. ROTFL.
I take it we can expect similarly exemplary timing when the powers that be report on Jacqui Smith, Geoff Hoon, Eric Pickles et al - say 4 weeks before the general election. Or is this treatment reserved for EUsceptic propaganda purposes?
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"We must build a kind of United States of Europe."
- Winston Churchill
I wonder would UKIP put that on their posters?
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do not beleive the pro-EU payrolls and this UKIP.. all of them are part of this inept system.
do not beleive world bank, imf, EU, ECB or FED they are the problem, the elites 'occupying' those positions in this institutions are the problem.
follow the facts and instinct, beleive only yourself.
today in the news,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8011907.stm
imf a fortune-teller kind of institution, now changed it predictions again.. why?
for the imf to predict the losses in financial sector or economy is like to answer to an open ended question.. they system is bleeding money, so imf cannot say the losses will cost 4trillion.. they system is bleeding money.. so there will be open ended losses as well.
next.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8012527.stm
this needs no comment.. why the hell someone will care to kill himself, when he didnt even care when he was self-paying the high bonuses and gambling money? they did all this bad things and they didnt feel bad about it, now like a suprise to all he kills himself.. and who will beleive this?
next.. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8011321.stm
that's why i go to China, because in UK or EU my money will be taxed to pay for the mistakes and retirement of those who didnt even care about my generation. ha, ha.. i got all my money in gold and Yuan, so no way to be taxed by the elites. the euro i had, who knows who owns it now, they will be taxed for sure.. excpect rampant inflation, high taxes, high prices, and wealthy and knowledgeable people go away to China, since the incompetents are making us pay for them.
the young generation must not pay taxes to these elites..
must not vote to this elites,
the moral of the story is that you are on your own people,
dont be fooled, and dont be hostage..
dont pay for the old, dont honor their loans taken in our name, but not for us.
Dont vote.. UKIP is as bad as any other.. there is still no such political party or individual who can save the world..
because the elites will not allow it, because the elites dont get it through their brain yet.
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Michael_Walsh @21
Your statement is correctly attributed to Churchill but it is slightly disingenuous as Churchill never saw 'his' Great Britain (as it was then) as part of his vison for the future of Europe.
His opinion was that Europe had been so badly destroyed by the Second World War that even the generosity of the American would not be able to rebuild Europe sufficiently quickly to mean that European States could recover without huge suffering, famine and further self-destruction. Churchill also, as ever, had his sights fixed on the Stalinist regime within Russia and felt that Europe had to stand together - with the help of America - to prevent the Russian Collossus making further expansions westwards . . . whether Stalin and his Russia actually intended to do so is arguable but that was the terror of the times.
However, even out of context, it is absolutely true that Europe together in a United States of Europe is a far better Ideal than the pre-war system of balancing power by the creation chains of bi-lateral treaties and pacts that were in place pre-War and in the end proved worthless and did not prevent the European Nations from hurling themselves into catastrophic warfare.
Churchill, in his halcyon days of post-War 1945-1948, probably thought that Great Britain, would reap the success of victory, but alas both Labour and Conservative governements have subsequently wasted the dividend or been unable to prevent Great Britain from falling further into debt in order to fund the Health and Educational expectations that arose in Great Britain post-War and, even today, cannot be realistically met as the Educational and National Health Services of Britain are luxuries that cannot be afforded by the taxation and nationla health income alone.
UKIP may wish to see themselves as saviours of Great Britain but they are an anacronysm in that Great Britain can never be great again - ever - and the now so-called United Kingdon (neither United nor forever a Kingdom) can only survive closely allied to America or to the concept of a United States of Europe despite Churchill thinking it was not for 'his' Great Britain but nevertheless a concept of the future for Europe envisioned by Churchill and other European Idealists such as Robert Schumann.
Thus, we probably share the same view but the route to achieving our concensus of opinion of disliking the UKIP politics is the different concepts of how we see the past reflected in the reality of today. I don't see UKIP as a threat merely as a passing anacronysm that will disappear once the UK and its peoples have embraced the idea of being part of Europe rather than being insular and having to drown in their own morasse.
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valdan70: I think he's referring to Tory MEP Giles Chichester:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article4069524.ece
Tory MEP Giles Chichester paid £400,000 expenses to his own firm
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Michael_Walsh: Churchill further said, in 1948: "We are with you, but not of you."
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Menedemus and #23.
re, "... once the UK and its peoples have embraced the idea of being part of Europe rather than being insular and having to drown in their own morass."
So, when I and many millions voted 'Yes' to PM Wilson's 1975 Referendum on his renegotiated terms for UK membership of the EEC we were all being 'insular'?
Surely, the British public showed vision and optimism when they joined the euphemistically nicknamed Common Market?
Is it not the case that in the intervening period 1975 to 2009 that same UK/English public and their offspring have not become the ignorant and narrow-minded Citizens you suggest, but rather, the contrastingly aware and knowledgeable observers of the development an EU institution wholly at odds with the organisation proposed in 1975? The EEC was about reducing Trade Tariffs, easing cross-border access and freeing up trans-European business deals to enable and encourage competition. A clear majority of UK Citizens agreed with those policy initiatives. However, their 'Yes' vote cannot be taken as consent to additional intrusions into the fabric of UK/England Political system in areas of Fiscal-Social-Judicial-Military leading to ultimate power being vested in a Brussels EUrotocracy.
There is nothing 'insular' about the UK Citizens not 'embracing' ideas and policies they never agreed to and which are not the prerogative of any leadership outside that elected at National level to Westminster or the 3 devolved ruling institutions of the British Isles.
Isn't it the case that making a law enforcing identical hours of work per week from Dublin to Lisbon to Berlin to Tallin to Athens is the height of absurd political-economic-social insularity by a set of EUrocrats so out of touch with the reality of varying employment conditions across 27 States there is no possible reason the sensible Citizens of UK/England would consider anything but the loosest association with them!?
Your choice of 'drowning' in the 'morass' as a description of the UK peoples' condition also attracts some dubiousness.
Since when were the lives of the Citizens of these Islands so entangled in a mire that they were unable to continue to function?
With respect, whilst it is patently true (as today's Budget drastically exposes) the UK/England is at a very low ebb and struggling against a tide of complex economic-political-social ills, as I look across the Channel to mainland Europe there is hardly a change of experience or prospect amongst the other 26 members! If you are seriously suggesting it is the UK that is about to go-under and due to the EU and Europe in general the rest of the 400,000,000 members are about to swim away to economic-political-social health then I do have to point out that is not the EU/European Citizens' experience being reported daily in the media of the 26.
As for your contention that "..it is absolutely true that Europe together in a United States of Europe is a far better ideal than the pre-war balancing of power.." it just simply is untrue! Where is the evidence for your assertion?
The 2nd longest period of sustained peace on mainland Europe was from 1815 to 1870 unless one includes all the Balkan conflicts: Both the 1st and 2nd mainland European Wars that became general World wars originated in Europe from the expansionist ambitions of Germany and Austria (+ Hungary) and would have developed whether a 'balance' or a 'union' was in existence (or, are you seriously going to argue modern day Germany would have settled for being just Prussia with a bit tacked-on, and, the vassal nations of the 'union' known as the Hapsburg Empire would have preferred to remain under the rule of Vienna?). Post WW1 bi-lateral Treaties did alleviate some of the 'nationalistic-racial' problems, but, not all and so to WW2 and post-1945.
Thus, 1945 to 2009 is a remarkable period of sustained peace on mainland Europe provided one excludes the Balkan conflicts, Northern Ireland, Basque separatism, Greece v Turkey in Cyprus, the Baader-Meinhoff etc. Which catastophic war, civil strife or terrorism did the EU prevent? None of them!
The 'ideal' you propose when actually put into practise has failed again and again from Romans to Charlemagne, Napoleon, Hitler etc. That the EU has not relied on military-police force to impose its will does not change the inescapable conclusion the average European Citizen through the centuries has always fallen out with supranational government that is supposedly set-up for their benefit. Certainly the election of MEPs by less than 45% of the total EU electorate on the last 2 occasions and the Dutch and French rejection of the 'Constitution coupled with the Eire 'No' to Lisbon is fairly transparent evidence that there is no European Citizens' Mandate for the EUrotocracy to continue in its attempts to create a 'Federalised Europe'.
The most obvious lesson from all that is UK/England did well to steer a generally independent course from mainland Europe over the centuries, only becoming fully engaged with it, when Europeans' wars threatened the security of the British Isles. Nothing about the present undemocratic, unresponsive and corrupt EU suggests any sound reasons for turning away from a policy that historically has worked to UK/England's political-social-economic-cultural advantage.
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Suffolkboy2 and #9.
Your 'advert' advice for UKIP!
I oppose UK/England membership of the EU; I do not support UKIP in any way as most of their policies lack credibility or are years out of date, nevertheless:
It is difficult enough trying to persuade the 'pro-EU' lobby of the worth of our 'anti-EU' views without you making an entirely unpleasant, crude mockery of the debate!
If you cannot be constructive please look for other simpler amusement.
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Wise is of course the second of the 12 UKIP members elected in 2004 to be charged with fraud. Ashley Mote MEP actually served a prison sentance during his term of office after being found guilty. Besides them, at least two others (including Kilroy Silk and their former leader Knapman)have left UKIP too, meaning at least a third of the 12 UKIP members elected in 2004 have left it. What a shambles!
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Where is the evidence that Roger Knapman has left UKIP? He has only left the Ind-Dem group, AFAIK...
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2. At 4:25pm on 21 Apr 2009, sponplague wrote:
"Hqng on, Mark: stand again? the about Tom page on his website, http://www.tomwisemep.co.uk/tomwise/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=21&Itemid=32 says: "As you can probably conclude, I will not be offering myself as a candidate in the forthcoming EU elections for any other party but will continue to fight for the cause I so passionately espouse.""
Translation: "I'll stand as an independent because I don't want to miss out on the gravy train."
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8. At 01:26am on 22 Apr 2009, SuffolkBoy2 wrote:
"Just remember the lack of fairness in the voting in the Eurovision Song Contest!"
Ha ha ha, nice analogy for the proportional representation.
Do you know which festival that mostly reminds me of the British parliamentary voting system politics?
The Cooper's Hill Cheese-Rolling: Why "The first person over the finish line at the bottom of the hill wins the cheese" of course!
And I agree that the latter is more fun to watch than the Eurovision, at any rate.
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27. At 11:02pm on 22 Apr 2009, ikamaskeip wrote:
"I oppose UK/England membership of the EU."
So here's a plan for you: (1) you form a party that advocates the splitting of England from the UK (the Monarch can always relocate to Edinburgh, while the Prince of Wales could go to Cardiff)[*], (2) you push for declaring the English Republic and make it legally entitled to rescind all previous UK-EU engagements, (3) expecting opposition from Westminster, you smartly candidate yourself for EU elections (but only to achieve your aim, mind you)... I'll let you figure out steps (4), (5), (6) and (7) ;-)
[*] One problem for you may be the wave of opposition that you would face from Scotland and Wales at this prospect...
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Mark:
[*]UPDATE (1650): The Crown Prosecution Service say: "We are an independent prosecution authority and once we have made a decision we are obliged to inform those concerned at the earliest opportunity".[*]
That is very important news, regarding the CPS...But, what the CPS is not saying....What is the decision of theirs regarding the allegations....
~Dennis Junior~
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Mark:
I am not accusing anyone of misdoing I'm waiting for a fair accounting of the case file regarding the expenses probe.....
-Dennis Junior
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lacerniagigante and #32.
Why would I consider any plan by a confirmed pro-EU lobbyist to be reliable or at all pertinent to what I might or might not do?
Here's a plan for you:
1) Continue to vote for a pro-EU MEP Candidate.
2) Continue to support a pro-EU Political Party/group.
3) Continue this for the next decade always encouraging ever-deepening Federalised EU powers.
4) Continue to ignore the 50+% of the EU Citizens who do not vote.
5) Continue with the pretence an EU Parliament with no MEP receiving even 40% of the eligible Citizens' votes has a Mandate to rule the 400,000,000+ EU Citizens.
6) Continue to agree with increased supranational powers centred at Brussels and thus continue to ignore the EU Citizens Referenda rejecting the proposed 'Constitution' and the 'Lisbon Treaty'.
7) Continue to pretend like the rest of the Brussels EUrotocracy, MEPs and the Government at Westminster that when Surveys and Polls of UK/England Public Opinion show 60+% wanting a Referendum on EU Membership it is entirely 'democratic' to ignore such disatisfaction in one of the largest States contributing huge amounts of Tax-Payers money to the EU.
8) Continue to regard the EU as a 'democracy' and yourself as a part of that 'democracy' though millions of its Citizens are denied their 'democratic' voice.
9) Continue with the 'democratisation' of Europe under the aegis of the EU until you have achieved your purpose and the Free-will, Rights and Responsibilities of individual Citizens are decided by an unaccountable 'democracy' and the vast, unresponsive, one-size-fits-all EUrotocracy ignores you.
10) Then of course you and all those EU-lemmings like you will be among the first to expect the USA, probably Russia and the UK/England, as in previous centuries, to yet again save Europe from an undemocratic, venal, corrupt mess it has made of its own volition.
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"Politics, like comedy, is all in the timing."
Comedians, unlike politicians, tend to be funny and in touch with reality.
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Re 35. At 9:20pm on 25 Apr 2009, ikamaskeip wrote:
Thanks, Pieksämäki. Why are you assuming that I am "pro-EU"? Do you really buy into the Daily Mail reality where the world is divided into anti and pro EU?
I certainly don't think that the EU is heaven on earth. But this doesn't mean that I see it to be the hell depicted by the rabidly europhobic interest group related journalists (Bruges--or is it Brugge? :D--Group and the likes). Even Libertas has taken into account the fact that a marginal part of the electorate wants to "leave" the EU. Only UKIP keeps hammering the same point and is heading for a resounding defeat (at least compared to its strawfire gains against the Lib Dems in the previous EP election).
I think the problem with the euroskeptics is that they are completely out of touch with reality. The reality is that Britain is *on* the European Continental shelf, no matter how deep blue you use to paint the Channel on the maps, and that the only way forward for the UK is to be part of the EU. In fact, this has been acknowledged decades ago and putting it into questions smacks of mothball selfending reaction.
Not even UKIP believes it. Only the people who vote for them do, but they're in for a big disappointment.
Nigel Farage and his likes preache honesty, but don't you find it a bit hypocritical that if they really wanted the UK to exit the EU they should go for Westminster, which is the place where an exit should be decided, by parliament/electoral means. Or do you still gobble the tabloid version of reality where Brussels and Strasbourg are imposing on the UK to stay in the EU?
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Now, there is another way. (See Libertas.eu). Libertas believes that the EU is a good thing but that is needs to be reformed to make it more democratic, accountable and transparent. This will not be easy to achieve but it has to be something worth fighting for.
Europhiles should support the Libertas stance because they want to reform the EU for the better.
Euroskeptics should support Libertas because they want to reform the worst things about the EU whilst keeping the good things.
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