Cerberus for EU financial hell?
Why have one new institution when you can have three? Or indeed four. The De Larosiere report has backed off creating a single brand new watchdog to oversee financial institutions in the European Union.
The grand old man of European finance said that "we might have been accused of being unrealistic". He said his aim was not to pile rule upon rule, but to come up with a new system that was "ambitious but not unrealistic." Given the gloom I wrote about earlier it is quite appropriate that his system resembles Cerberus, the guardian of the gates of Hades, a three-headed watchdog.
There would be separate new authorities to look after insurance, banking and securities. He also said it was clear that, although there were warnings before the crisis, the alarm bells were not ringing loud enough. So he also proposes another new body, called the "European Systemic Council", made up of the governors of the various national banks. He stressed the governor of the Bank of England would play a very important role.
The European Commission President, Jose Manuel Barroso, said they would make their official response a week today, but gave the report a very warm welcome, saying: "We are determined not to miss the chance to restore confidence in European and global financial systems. The citizens of Europe expect us to change the rules of the game."
Not everyone agrees: listen to the reaction on Radio 4's World at One. The chap at the end of the item may not be reassured that the president of the Socialists in the European Parliament has welcomed the report. PES president Poul Nyrup Rasmussen said: "The De Larosiere group's proposals represent an essential step forward. They are ambitious but practical. The spotlight is now on the European Commission. It is a test of Barroso's courage and conviction. Today should be an important day in the history of international financial markets - but we shall see if the current conservative European Commission is capable of taking the recommended steps." What do you think?
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~42~RS~)
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Don't these people get it? It really does not matter how hard or elegantly you shut the stable door. The horses are long gone.
There will be a new economic reality which will require a different form of regulation. Until we know what form it is going to take the measures, however well intentioned, will not address the problem. In fact, by signalling in advance what and how you are going to regulate, you simply encourage the chancers to find more different and devious ways to circumvent them.
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Mark,
So the EU is to have a pan-national trokia reglatory system - why is this three-headed monster expected to work any better than Brown's own three part regalatoty system?
I thought we'd all agreed that one of Brown's biggest mistakes was to end Bank of England supervision and hand regulation of the banks over to the FSA.
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"We are determined not to miss the chance to restore confidence in European and global financial systems. The citizens of Europe expect us to change the rules of the game."
Well, can we please have our confidence in the EU financial system restored first? How long is it since the accounts were properly signed off?
And if the summary, which were published this last weekend, of the findings of the report on EU waste and corruption by David Craig & Matthew Elliott [due out on 5 March] are only half correct can someone please get to grips with an allowance and expenses system that enables MEPs to pocket around 1mGBP in a 5 year stint - and that's in addition to a very generous salary, pensions and perks package?
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many watchdogs, like there were and are too many banks.
The reason is simple: it provides fantastic bridge jobs for politicians on the way to retirement.
Good example today is Sarkozy parachuting one of his aides into the top job at the newly created French bank.
There are too many banks because politicians like to become a banker, or pretend they are a sound one. But the big problem of so many banks with many receiving public support even when the economy is humming is that privately owned banks can not make a decent return though the mundane banking activities such as payments processing and (prime) mortgages.
big countries like Germany, France and the UK should perhaps have 6 banks that account for 85% of total accounts, and smaller countries perhaps 3 to 4. What do you get with many banks of which half owned by government? Excessive risk taking. this has alwasy been the problem in Germany. The US has way too many banks as well.
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Given that the European banks and regulators did no better than ours, what makes anyone think that having them involved will help?
Sounds like a good way for Frankfurt and Paris to dictate what we do as usual when their track record is no better.
At least we in Britain know who to blame: Gordon Brown. As chancellor he swept away the old regulation and caution.
Having Brussels involved would just give failed politicians a fig leave to divert blame.
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As an Independent Financial Adviser I am appalled at the lack of oversight of the banks - especially when the FSA have been so heavy handed and, frankly, over the top in other areas of financial regulation.
But we do need to keep our guard up : The FSA may have made some very serious mistakes, as did every other regulator, but this is not the time to allow the EU to take over Financial Regulation of UK institutions.
It is significant that the author of the report issued today is French.
Since the introduction of the Euro, European Finance ministers have been striving towards the goal of seeing Frankfurt or Paris replace London as the premier financial centre in Europe.
There can be little doubt that this would be the end result if a negligent British Government were to pass over regulatory powers to Brussels.
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Let's get one thing clear. Governments have to act now, and act fast on regulation. The financial houses are in a mess and are too busy to put together a coherent opposition. It is far better to over-regulate now and then relax a little, as events unfold, than to regulate too little now in the hope that one can add something later.
The only flaw is that most national regulators have clearly failed in their jobs. So who/what do we put in their place?
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What was the three-headed mutt in Harry Potter called?
Sounds as stupid and complicated as Brown's FSA and thus doomed to failure (and therefore, I must confess, I am delighted).
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Bureacrats just love creating bureacracy and new bureacratic jobs to deal with the ever-exapnding empire of bureacracy they wish us to all live under.
Call it regulations or call it supervision - it is bureacracy for the sake of bureacracy nonetheless!
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"Cerberus est in via LATRAT!!" as my old latin teacher would say...
Although I wouldn't be entirely surprised if this were to turn out to be another variant on 'letting sleeping dogs lie'...
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The FSA along with all other regulators have been obviously NOT doing the job we thought they were and had another agenda agreed by governments that they were pursuing.
The last thing we need is more centralised oversight from the EU they are even more unaccountable and unable to add up than our Banks were.
The EU should rid itself of sleaze and corruption before spouting about this fiasco.
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The European Commission President, Jose Manuel Barroso, said "... The citizens of Europe expect us to change the rules of the game."
I doubt if he knows that. If so I would like to know how he knows it.
If he is now concerned about the views of the "Citizens of Europe" then why is he not concerned abut the views of those who want a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.
Why is he not concerned about the views of those who do not want Turkey in the "EU".
The "EU is not Europe.
We are not citizens of the "EU". We are the prisoners of a megalomaniac dictatorship which calls itself the "EU" and sometimes has the cheek to call itself Europe.
Barrosso has tried this trick before - claiming to know and be concerned about what people in the "EU" think. It is just part of the manipulative routine that is so automatic to "EU"-lovers.
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Creating new "EU" bodies just means handing more power to people from countries with a tradition and a habit of corruption.
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12 SuffolkBoy2
"We are not citizens of the "EU". We are the prisoners of a megalomaniac dictatorship which calls itself the "EU" and sometimes has the cheek to call itself Europe."
OR
We are not citizens of the "UK". We are the prisoners of a megalomaniac dictatorship which calls itself the "UK" and sometimes has the cheek to call itself "Britain", (or "England").
OR
We are not citizens of the "USA". We are the prisoners of a megalomaniac dictatorship (at least while Bush was in power) which calls itself the "USA" and sometimes has the cheek to call itself "America".
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"...the governor of the Bank of England would play a very important role."
Is that the same Bank of England that solved the problem so brilliantly the last time just a few months ago? The one that lost a billion dollars to George Soros in one night once? How encouraging to know that such experience and talent will be tapped.
"The citizens of Europe expect us to change the rules of the game.""
Even if they miraculously figured out what to do, it will be too little, too late. They'd be closing the barn door after the horse is long gone. When the Titanic is sinking, it's not the time to first figure out how to build enough life boats. All that's left is to have one last hell of a party before the lights go out.
It was just a few years ago when Tony Blair said he would make Europe the best place in the world to do business when he was President of the EU. If it wasn't already, it quickly became one of the worst. I think it ranks just ahead of Zimbabwe. If I had to invest my money overseas, I'd sooner pick Vietnam as a safer bet. Does France still have 5 week vacations and unemployment insurance for life? Exactly what rules will they change that won't cause street riots?
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dwwwonthew
"We are determined not to miss the chance to restore confidence in European and global financial systems. The citizens of Europe expect us to change the rules of the game."
Well, can we please have our confidence in the EU financial system restored first? How long is it since the accounts were properly signed off?
If you would have cared to inquire more deeply you would have understood that its the individual countries that do it wrong, not the EU Commission. Besides that, your argument is beside the point.
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MarcusAureliusII
What exactly is wrong with 5 weeks of holidays? I much rather earn 10% less and have 10% (approx 5 weeks) of the year holidays. Don't you?
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16
The problems may lie within the individual countries but the European Commission is accountable - or should be - for the reporting of spend against budget. So the points I make are very much to the point.
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@14 oldnat, @ 12 SuffolkBoy2
...OR
We are not citizens of the "world". We are the prisoners of a megalomaniac dictatorship which calls itself the "Liberal economic system" and sometimes has the cheek to call itself "the solution to poverty, the only recipe for freedom and growth".
1/ regulation in a structural break that is unable to detect the weak signals of basic paradigm shifts cannot be sufficient
@1 threnodio is completely right: "There will be a new economic reality which will require a different form of regulation. Until we know what form it is going to take the measures, however well intentioned, will not address the problem."
2/ the new situation cannot be understood from the skills set and experiences of the typical professional/expert. After all these led to the crisis, and the crisis is a protracted affair evolving for almost a decade if not more.
The situation requires a portfolio of cognitive capabilities i.e. a broad set of different types of people in terms of how they can perceive reality (yes, relying on subjective differences).
3/ The emperor has been found without clothes after all. The fundamental credibility of the system, not merely its efficacy, is deeply wounded. Quite possibly
aspects that define the paradigm on which the system is based require adaptation. But the system is proving petrified and incapable of out-of the box perception. In such case, leaving it to experts, silencing dissent, pretending to know 'the' cure will stifle the immune system response and lead to the slow death of the patient.
4/ Careers, incentives, motivations, etc. on the part of the 'system experts' on the one hand, and a mentality of scarcity, of few perceived opportunities (economic block competition and mass directed policies) as determined by the 'boxed' system, contribute to the loss of connectedness with communities and a deeper sense of purpose. The 'money game' has deeply infected the self-styled leadership, becoming unilateral, biased, callous and devoid of any trust in people intrinsic capabilities to pursue the good.
5/ Regulation responses imply an insistence in that nothing is wrong with the 'system' itself; merely some actors have failed. This may be indispensable as a containment measure but totally insufficient.
6/ The hasty diagnosis that proposes regulation as a solution is impaired by self-preservation, fear, guilt, bias, unilateral narrow mindedness, urgency and possibly other factors that accentuate the myopia of the solutions.
7/ The graveness and breadth of the crisis, together with its rapid spread, and the broad social responsibility across credit takers, lenders, regulators, policy makers, etc. requires to question the model and systems integrity. A different kind of diagnostic process is needed.
8/ The characteristics of the problem are more similar to the HIV/AIDS crisis than to a regularly occurring financial or business cycle. It suggests that it is an epidemiological problem involving patterns of behavior and belief. These are more or at least as much important as specific high risk practices.
How this devastating disease has been faced (now for three decades) strongly suggests that community activity, grass-roots care, compassion and accountability, have a far greater role than hygienic policies and donor money - equivalent to the bail-out and regulation approach in the present crisis.
Very often too, well meaning 'experts' (both from donors and recipients) have had a lot to regret and feel bad about for trampling unconsciously on the healthiest responses in communities. This also speaks to the dangers of regulation and rule by the one-eyed person.
9/ The emotions and tensions that surge to the fore of usually cool and tempered environments, national sentiment, cultural and religious values, further corroborate that deep layers of society are affected. It means that it is not merely a technical problem or an abstract idea of a 'real economy'. It is personal and it touches everyone.
10/ If we put together the contributions to present day world order by various cultures we may be better able to find the broken pieces of our respective puzzles (understanding of the respective 'systems').
For example, from a multi-decade long perspective, western models have excelled in the practicality of the capital equation (the uses of capital in a rather techno-economic way), but very often in deep detriment of people processes. Perhaps for this reason claiming to be 'democratic' is such a politically correct stance, and compensates for deep feelings that a true participation and social bond is missing.
Meanwhile, the Arabic cultures have been dealing with morality of capital (relationship to society and moral responsibility). To their shortcomings others will be more able to speak to. However, both these models have reached extremes and exhibit deep but asymmetric problems.
These models have a lot to learn from each other almost as complementary pieces of a broken puzzle. The West is certainly struggling with regulation, ownership and social importance of the financial system (i.e. morality in some sense). The Arabic cultures are stepping in strongly into the global arena and are being forced to look out from their own box into practical management issues.
Perhaps an example of an adaptive model is emerging in the case of the Norwegian sovereign fund practices. It seems to me that new elements of a socially accountable capital are gradually being brought in the western model. Its a risky path for anyone who distrusts human judgment, but that is until one considers the alternative of tyrannical, biased and manipulative regulations that empower 'experts and leaders'.
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Let me see if I am getting this right. The bill so far to the taxpayer (like in all the best hotels, you can now check this on your screen!), has hit US$ 1.5 trillion in the UK alone. With 30 million taxpayers, that makes a personal debt of US$ 50 000 for each taxpayer in just one country. And the figure is still climbing. With that crippling level of government-generated personal debt, does the European Commission really think that anyone cares about three new committees and a "Systemic Council" who may, or may not, (no prizes for guessing the likely answer), be able to talk the situation into not happening again? Of course not. Is there any way that that the EU can be persuaded that its citizens, 500 million of us at last count, are already so seriously in debt that most of our working lives we will be paying increased taxes to our governments to clear it? Because that is the problem most of want the solution to.
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MarcusAureliusII @15:
Your repitious, red-necked posts decrying everything non-American, and extolling the virtue and power of the USA, whilst rather amusing, would carry more weight if you weren't the citizen of a country which is owned lock, stock and barrel by China, and in serious decline. After decades of criticising China for its human rights abuses, your government is no longer able to do so for fear of Beijing pulling the plug. No doubt the insecurity that inspires in someone like you is at the root of your xenophobic posts here. I can see that it must be very hard for you to face the reality. You have my sympathy.
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Gheryando; nothing wrong with 5 week annual vacations, unemployment insurance for life, government paid universal health care, and works rules that say you can't fire or lay anyone off.....if that's your competition. Now how much less do you think television sets, shoes, and other manufactured goods from China cost where they have none of that, no environmental rules, no worker safety rules, and pay workers about one or two dollars a day? Of course there are other things to be sold to make money. But how does a small farm in France compete with huge American agribusiness where a combine plows an acre just turning around? And how does a society that has never invented a Bill Gates, a Steve Jobs, an Intel, a Home Depot, a Microsoft, or an IBM, compete with one that has invented them beyond counting? In the world of major industrial economies, Europe is a loser. It's last....dead last. Its days as a major economic player in the world even in aggregate are at an end. It is not only competing with societies traveling a hundred miles an hour while it stands still, it would have to turn itself inside out just to get started while the others are usually accelerating.
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Re 16 again
Let me quote a little more from the summary by David Craig [Sunday Times, 22 Feb] referred to in my post @ 3 above:
"I soon realised that the EU project and the institutions have been hijacked by an arrogant, self-serving and undemocratic elite, which has become increasingly isolated from and disdainful of the people who pay their considerable salaries, expenses and pensions - us" and
"Among the things that shocked me were the arrogance, cynicism and avarice of the MEPs, commissioners and EU staff, and the extraordinary levels of thieving".
And presumably Mr Craig and his co-author, Matthew Elliott, have evidence to back up these statements otherwise they are open to be sued for libel.
So, if the EU Commision tolerates all of that how on earth can it claim to have the credibility to police the banking system?
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#22 Marcy, as usual your vision of Europe is stuck in the 1970s, come back this century and you might begin to see why it competes pretty well with the USA. The car industry might be in trouble right now but I'll wager it's worse your side of the pond and that the products turned out there are considerably less fit for purpose than those over here.
As for agriculture, we can have a discussion on that once you learn the difference between a combine and a plough (incidentally you might want to consider reducing use of the plough in favour of a low till, lower input, system, as you sow your GM -soon to be bust?-crops).
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MAII
I was only referring to the holidays..don't assume I agree with all the other stuff as well. You are certainly right about certain things. However, looking at the forbes 2000, you will note that the largest company is a European one and American ones are loosing ground. In fact, your economy is in pieces and your companies make losses that are beyond belief. GM just announced 30 odd billion dollar loss..if thats your idea of progress...take it and keep it.
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To dwwonthew (23):
The books title is The Great European Rip-off: How the Corrupt, Wasteful EU is Taking Control of Our Lives and it hasn't been published yet. According to Amazon it will be published 5th of March 2009.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-European-Rip-off-Corrupt-Wasteful/dp/1847945708/
As it hasn't been published yet it is impossible to say anything about the content of the book and how much truth can be found from it, is it true at all or is it just a political book with little truth and much propaganda in it.
Looking at other works of Mr. Craig...
Rip-Off! The Scandalous Inside Story of the Management Consulting Money Machine
Plundering the Public Sector
Squandered: How Gordon Brown is Wasting Over One Trillion Pounds of Our Money
...it would seem that Mr. Craig has found a new career based on writing populist books. Probably these items would be sure hits with many of this sites commentators, but for any serious examination his books are not worth as they are little more than remarks of what he has seen, not a documented scientific enquiry into a subject.
You should also know that for an organization it is very hard to claim and win a libel case against an individual. In case of a public supranational organization like the European Union, it is almost impossible from legal or public relations stand win a libel case against an individual.
Yes, many companies do litigate, but their tactic is based on scaring individual to submission by threathening with enourmous compensation claims that make the individual to submit, retract and settle with the company than go to a court and face not only costly court case, but enournoums compensation claims.
Thus for the fact that people can claim different things about the European Union or other public entity and not facing litigation doesn't mean that these people are right and they have evidence to backdown their claims, what it means that these entities can't shutdown these persons even if their claims are phony.
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MarcusAureliusII: People have been saying for countless deacdes now that us northern European countries won't survive economically with our high welfare levels, free healthcare, low working hours, high taxes etc. but we still top GDP per capita tables and the EU is still the most lucrative economic zone on earth.
I don't mean to blow our trumpet at all, as there is much more to life than cash, but it's this realisation that life is about much more than material posessions which is what keeps European countries economies going strong. You can have thousands of people working ridiculously long hours working in bad conditions but if what they're doing isn't useful work, they may as well not be working. Whether someone is paying them a wage or not is really beside the point.
Maintaining a strong, sustainable economy & society is about how much useful work a workforce completes, not how long they spend at the factory and how cheap they will work for. Those aspects just help make one person rich (and sure, the USA, China, Russia, India etc. have some far richer individuals), but working effectively is what makes the whole of society richer.
The mass-production of material goods is only a small part of that.
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Hallo all around
while everybody is looking for a solution I should like briefly to offer a thought.
LANGUAGE IS CONSCIOUSNESS BUILDING
It is not that many years ago that a failure in adequate controls brought down ENRON.
It also brougth down the 'controller' the worldwide Auditing Firm ARTHUR ANDERSON.
This event is normally referred to as the ENRON dissaster or such word. Enron may have been a large Company, Arthur Anderson however was one of very few worldwide Auditing Firms.
The spotlight, if you like, remained on ENRON. If it had been on AUDITING or AUDITING FIRM ARTHUR ANDERSON, more thought could have been spent by the people at large on the latter rather than the former, questions would have formed in their minds. Very justified questions indeed!
The 'desease' of departing from Auditing to do business in Consulting all under one roof had spread already. It was of course curbed. Then there where some that went even further and added Bookeeping to their portofolio. Advice, Bookkeeping and Auditing all in one. It had to stop, but those crooked enough to start it all continued in their lovely jobs.
As it happened the Rating Agencies also went down the route of selling Advise.
Real international Auditing standards are finally emerging, the same has to happen in those very vulnerable Finance businesses, banks etc.. There cannot be an EU solution alone.
So lets call a spade a spade and get shot of the crooks. Naming and shaming, whistleblowing, call it what you will, but do not let yourselves be diverted with the 'wrong language'.
If you do not like something in Brussels, kick them hard, lick them into shape, threaten them if you can.
For your information I have asked them only recently to provide me with a list of all Audits over the last three years that one Agency has seen necessary to have carried out.
Because I am accusing them of cover up.
I shall keep you informed here, if the 'controllers' here, let me
Regards
old joe
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#23 - dwwonthew
". . . presumably Mr Craig and his co-author, Matthew Elliott, have evidence to back up these statements . . . "
Presumably ?
Messrs. Craig and Elliot should either publish their evidence or be dismissed as idle speculators - and I would have though we have had enough of idle speculators to last several life times.
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26 and 29
I am perfectly aware that the book by David Craig and Matthew Elliott will be published on 5 March. However, there was an article by Mr Craig in the Sunday Times on 22 Feb outlining some of the points that will be made in it. The Sunday Times is not likely to have published those points without their legal department checking out the validity.
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#28 - joehoch
Hello Joe.
What you are writing about is simply the leveling out and downwards of professional standards. If we had not departed from the days when auditors, surveyors and other professionals were required to qualify, joined partnerships with joint and several liability and could not fall back on professional liability insurance, limited liability company status and cross border escape routes, they would have performed to a much higher standard.
The banks were, in no small measure responsible for all this when they turned their hands to mortgage brokerage, insurance selling, estate agency and so on. After all, it was only money wasn't it? Professional standards? What professional standards?
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LibreHacer @19
"Arabic cultures have been dealing with morality of capital (relationship to society and moral responsibilities)"
... "both these models reached extremes" (Western and Arabic ones, presumably?)
"these models have a lot to learn from each other"
"perhaps an adaptive model is emerging in the case of the Norwegian sovereign fund practices"
_________
I am very financially illiterate and wonder what that Arabic model can be. Is it what I think? I heard once by chance and then forgot and now remembered. I was once in a Red Arrow train restaurant, with three men at a table, chancy co-passengers. a tradition here during that night train Moscow-St. Petersburg to wander to the restaurant car and chat there the whole night away. So they got chatty, ordering more belly-fatty how to say round wide with a narrow neck decanters of vodka and discussing world affairs. I concentrated on marinated minogues (those crunchy crispy little water snakes).
One was a banker and an Arab bank banker and if I didn't have way too many minogues he definitely explained that his bank is not "your banks", that there is no percentage to pay when you take credit/a bank loan. The other chaps questioned how the system works then and how an Arab bank makes ends meet.
One was a theatre rejisseur from St. Pete and the other the head of the Jewish comunity in Russia, they questioned and he replied something. But must be by that time I had too many cakes and minogues and all.
Remember only one thing - that it is un-ethical for a bank to earn money.
LOL.
Can it be that?
(Ethical or un-ethical, do remember though that the poorest of the three men, the theatre chap, insisted he does, and in the morning paid for all).
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crosseyes, as usual, you don't know what you are talking about.
"I'll wager it's worse your side of the pond and that the products turned out there are considerably less fit for purpose than those over here."
There are few if any automobiles manufactured for the European market that would even be street legal in any state in America. They don't meet our criteria for what is safe and allowed. But don't take my word for it. Just go into any car dealer and ask him if he sells export models for the US market and how they are different and how much more expensive they are than European domestic versions.
MalcolmW2
"if you weren't the citizen of a country which is owned lock, stock and barrel by China, and in serious decline."
Ever stop to consider how much of China is owned by Americans? America is China's number one foreign investor. While the US government has rung up a debt of around 1.8 trillion to China's government, US private industry owns and has profited far more than that from its investments there. This is one way America is putting Europe out of business.
timOfBrum
Enjoy your delusional bubble while you still can. It won't be around much longer.
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threnodio @ 31
Hello threnodio
professional standards have come to vary over time. 'The Profession' have their bodies and apply standards more or less rigourously. They control largely themselves. We think that we can trust them, can we though? Do I trust an Accountancy body? To a degree would be my answer, because experience has coloured my views. Lawyers? There was a time when their body did'nt manage to deal with complaints against their members as they pretended to do.
LANGUAGE IS CONSCIOUSNESS BUILDING
This also meant we trusted more easily this or that professional and/or professional body.
Now who would'nt want to believe a canny Scotsman when he uses the word prudent?
Aren't the Scots known to be more sober in their protestant sort of way? Not many 'flash Gordons' there, are there? I have found it to be so, it entered my consciousness and colours my judgement to this day.
By the way I was talking of kicking buts and beeing more vigorous about it. I did it with Freddy Goodwin, a year or so ago, I had been unhappy with the services at 'HIS' bank. I ignored the complaint procedure and wrote to him directly. I did get a few hundert out of him in compensation. We must use our elbows from time to time.
Is'nt it true that we refer to a bank as 'our' bank? Being with 'my' bank for many years coloured my judgement for longer than was prudent.
Our liking for that 'bit of language' 'my bank' is that building block in our mind that trips us sooner or later.
So let's get emotional about poetry but not banks, Scottish and a' that!
Regards
old joe
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MAII
"There are few if any automobiles manufactured for the European market that would even be street legal in any state in America. They don't meet our criteria for what is safe and allowed. But don't take my word for it. Just go into any car dealer and ask him if he sells export models for the US market and how they are different and how much more expensive they are than European domestic versions."
Are you implying that US cars are safer than European cars? If that is the case, then that is very funny. In fact, the accident rate in the US is higher than in Europe. American drivers can't drive (sorry but I've lived and driven there for many years) and cars are definitely LESS safe than European cars. This should, however, be obvious given the technological advantage that European cars have over American ones. The only advantage about American cars is that most of them are tanks and thus are safer because they are so huge. Thats just about it though..
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It seems the various banks are still leaking losses faster than a safe US car catches fire or a Boeing splits in three (unlike it's competitor recently in the Hudson river).
I'm still curious about this plan for four new regulatory bodies, each will no doubt require a staffing of several hundred financial 'experts', or will they be the same failed merchant bankers (note the cockney) who have created this mess. Crucially, since this plan has come from French 'experts' I also wonder where they will be located, in Paris for instance, as I doubt Sarko will allow them to be in Frankfurt or heaven forbid London.
Maybe Yesterdays French news gives us a clue as to where the staffing might come from :- "Two loss-making French banks, Banque Populaire and Caisse d'Epargne, have finalised details of their merger deal, which was announced last October. The merged group will be France's second biggest retail bank after Credit Agricole, with 34 million customers. The new bank will be headed by Francois Perol, currently President Nicolas Sarkozy's deputy chief of staff, a move that analysts say is controversial. France's government is to inject up to 5bn euros ($6.4bn) into the new bank."
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Have they started installing safety plate glass in windows in European cars yet? That was one of dozens if not hundreds of differences between European domestic cars and those destined for the American market, the requirement for auto glass that won't shatter easily. When I lived in France around the early 1970s, 16,000 people in Grenoble lied down and played dead for a moment or two as some sort of crazy demonstration of how many people died in automobile related accidents in France every year. That in a country of about 1 million cars at the time and an area the size of Texas. In the US where there were about 125 to 150 million cars, many times the number of passenger miles driven, there were about 40,000 to 50,000 automobile related deaths a year. It is Europeans who don't know how to drive. And what kind of place has some people drive on the left and some on the right side of the road? Far better to adopt one standard there than a common currency. That alone would reduce traffic deaths. But then that requires common sense, a resource absent on your side of the pond Gheryando. I wonder how many drunken Brits drive on the Autobahns when they're soused where there are no speed limits. I'll bet they won't last very long.
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Anyone who followed the previous threads on Latvia will know be thrilled to know, courtesy of the BBC, that "Eastern European banks" are to be bailed out by western taxpayers.
Except, the headline is misleading. These banks are NOT eastern european. They do business in eastern europe, but they are Swedish, German and french.
They are owned by western europeans. Privately owned.
Now these private companies went to eastern europe and convinced the good people their that they were bringing prosperity and liberation from whatever with the stroke of a pen. Anyone who has read the latvian threads must accept that they plundered these nations and ruined them with utterly rapine lending policies.
And now, reports the BBC, the "EU", meaning the taxpayer in the west, is going to step in to "save" the poor eastern european banks.
Put simply, the EU is serving as a means to reduce the commercial losses of the aristocracy of western europe after they were so greedy (and powerful) in eastern europe that they could not stop themselves destroying the economies and lives of millions of people living their.
The EU is out of control. It is a system of theft from the people of europe for the benefit of lords and barons who are unhappy with democracy and the infringement on their radical title to rule by bloodline.
Th EU has become the predator in Europe, swallowing up power and rights, replacing it with decadent autocracy.
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MarcusAureliusII: Hate to break it to you, but you do not have the omniscience powers you think you have.
If your over-simplistic assumptions were correct. The dire times you fortell would have started in the 70's and Europe would already be a third-world bloc.
Strangely enough, it isn't and is instead has the highest GDP of any trading zone in the world - and is managed without the millions of people living on the poverty line waiting for the "trickle down" effect to deliver them the benefits they've been promised for decades now.
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#37 MAII,
It seems you still think the 70's are over here, laminated glass has been compulsory in the front windows for a long time and the side windows either have toughened glass or more recently a new EPG form of laminated safety glass as either standard or an option.
Judging by a report from the year 2000 I saw I'm wondering if you in your US paradise have since 2000 introduced laminated safety glass all round or whether your manufacturers are, as always, more concerned with the cost than safety and are still prevaricating.
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@32 Web Alice, you remember well -there are rules that diverge between Islamic finance and what the western banking system does - including of course moral risks of usury.
My main point goes to say that Islamic finance has succeeded to embody a system that is socially oriented from which the West can learn a lot. This will help far more than the regulations being proposed. Some alternative corporate models are already emerging in this direction, see for example:
http://www.strategy-business.com/press/enewsarticle/enews022609?pg=all
The central issue is that the juristic person, i.e. organizations that can in the eye of the law acquire rights as a person to function, emerged as a possibility somewhere in the 1870's. At that time it was still perceived as a great moral danger, for how could such artificial ' monsters' ('incorporated' people, artificial beings given a body) be trusted to have the religious and spiritual instincts or properties of real human beings (there are some interesting quotes to this effect dating from late 19th century US and elsewhere.)
But the origins of this idea of the 'juristic person' go much further back; centuries actually. And during this time the figure of corporation always kept its 'morality' by maintaining close relation to the people actually 'doing' the enterprise.
The moral risk was kept together with the techno-financial risk mainly through religious feeling which in turn supported social responsibility. For most of this time people did recognize the reality of higher powers in every aspect of creation, including that what came from the hand of the creatures themselves. But with the ascent of the sciences and loss of perspective from religion as a psychic reality, this influence waned.
Then in the 20th century capital became almost totally split from moral responsibility in an intrinsic way (I refer to western business which is the general model used almost everywhere). It became just an abstraction, a resource, something that could be bought and sold, without involving the people.
(Please mind that in entrepreneurial companies it still often remains as in former times, close to personal risk, and it is more and more recognized as something that needs to be mended in the conception of the 'corporation'. )
But the Arabic world has always been on a complementary tack of development. From the 10th to the 15th centuries they experienced a rise and fall of science, followed then by a cycle of religious-social focus up to now. The west experienced respectively first a religious cycle and now is quite possibly exhausting its science oriented cycle that kicked in around 1500.
My comment on the Arabic cultures without pretending to be an erudite on the theme, sought to put in perspective how much Islam is a social religion, i.e. occupied with human aspects that have been left aside in Western development for couple centuries. Even if it may have been on occasion extrapolated in ways that many object, as many object the absurdities of the techno-economic western system, Islamic culture is rich with human insight.
We would do a great service now if we could just remind ourselves that it took the West 600 years for it to overcome its prejudice of 'magic' and then to reach the situation of Arabic scientific development of the 12th century. Hopefully we don't have to wait 600 years to overcome our current prejudice and begin to accept that the human has been left aside far too long.
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Buzet23 Safety plate glass in all windows in all cars allowed on US roads has been manditory since the 1950s. This is just one example of the difference. Another is different engines that pollute the air less and are more powerful. Do you have manditory fleet gas mileage standards yet? We've had them here for decades. Do you even know what they are? Many European cars from famous car manufacturers were never exported to the US because certain models couldn't be adapted to meet US standards. Mercedes 140D was unknown here always. Nobody ever heard of Deux Cheveaux or Anglia or Vauxhall here. Not legal to register one. We do have a US legal Morgan Mini though. Probably not particularly safe for long trips on our highways but OK for driving around town.
TimOfBrun, Europe is a third world bloc. It just doesn't know it. The future of Europe is Greece and Roumania, not Britain and Germany.
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#33 Marcus, we've been through this before, and you were wrong then and are still wrong now.
There is no inherent difference between cars manufactured for Europe and those for the USA. There are small differences to satisfy peculiarities of local legislation but car companies work globally these days.
In the past (before you stopped taking in any new information) there were bigger differences - I seem to remember some British cars falling foul of US legislation on bumpers, and I think it's fair to say that in terms of crash testing and fitting certain safety equipment the US led the way. but we caught up quickly (and some, like the Swedes, were way ahead anyway).
Anyway, my point (as you chose to ignore it) was that the European manufacturers are at least making more of the sort of cars that are right for the times we find ourselves in - unlike the GM and Ford in the US. In other words the manufacturing base is more 'fit for purpose'.
Any luck with identifying a plough yet? A clue - it is usually behind a tractor and has no cutter bar, grain elevators or straw walkers - that would be a combine.
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Marcy #42. UK cars are taxed according to efficiency. The Morgan Mini you're talking about is presumably the BMW Mini? A car that's handling (and passive safety) is in a different galaxy to your old barge. The only reason it wouldn't be safe on 'long trips on your highways' is old duffers sliding their poorly handling cars into the side of it at the first spot of rain.
Once again its good to see you're bang up to date with your examples - Citroen 2cv, Ford Anglia....
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
crosseyes, not only would a Morgan Mini be squashed like a beetle by a semi in a crash on an American highway, my car would obliterate it too. And BTW, my "old barge" can achieve over 140 mph on level ground, a frightening prospect and it handles quite well on sharp turns. For this reason, I'm forced to buy expensive speed rated tires. BTW, in 1990 on a rain slicked highway, I was driving a similar car made by the same manufacturer and was struck by another car in a freak accident where the other driver fell asleep at the wheel. My car went hydroplaning out of control and hit a concrete center divider head on at 50 mph. The car was totaled. All of the engineered energy absorbing crumple zones worked perfectly and I walked away. BTW, none of the glass broke and the cabin remained entirely intact. Now what do you suppose would have happened to me if I was in one of those little European or Japanese death boxes on wheels? I wouldn't be around anymore to "educate" you or at least try to.
The only thing European industry is ready for is bankrupcy.
BTW, since you obviously don't know what it is, here is dictionary dot com's definition of a combine
"a harvesting machine for cutting and threshing grain in the field. "
I wouldn't expect most people in small farm Europe where they use methods not seen since the 1940s in widespread use on American farms to know that. I also wouldn't expect them to know that if America, the largest, most productive, most efficient, and most advanced producer of food in the world ever shut down its farming to any significant degree, hundreds of millions around the world who depend on its output would starve to death. Just last summer when a small percentage of grain was diverted to alcohol production for a gasoline additive, food prices around the world shot up. Imagine if a carbon tax or a cap and trade policy ever reduced American agricultural ouput by any real measure what would happen.
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oj what would happen? please let's try quicker, where are those carbon taxes.
What is Obama thinking about, Asia, M-me Clinton spending time... convincing China to take "good decision" to continue to buy American green paper...
When there is such a chance missing.
Russia will finally get rid of oil and gas narcotics and switch fully onto its natural mode of operation - making bread for the world.
Our agriculture Minister is dashing from the leash, to produce more, but is held back - "we can't possibly need more bread - we have loads enough, sell to all who is willing -where would we tuck the excess?"
BTW - without looking into any sources - I am sure America buys Russian bread continuously, year after year.
So don't worry for Europe, MAcombainius, and don't worry for yourself either - there'd be a loaf on your dinner table.
Last year yield was excellent; this year is very promising; and with the blasted otherwise global warming - our cultivated land natural border expands every year.
Don't know how it is in other places - Russian agriculture ministry says global warming is a blessing for them. Where only cucumbers 10 years ago - now tomato fields.
so, as said the Rus. amabassador to Ukraine's threat a week ago : "hohoho. Try to scare a dame by prospect of high heel shoes." :o)
True,
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#46 MAII,
So that's what all those large machines (combine harvesters) that I see everywhere here in Belgium and which continually drive past my door are, we also have ploughs as well but then I guess they are still horse driven in good old US.
Maybe you can also explain why your car has a top speed of 140 when you are legally only permitted to drive fairly fast (55-70) on a few designated roads. You hardly need high rated tyres for that speed, just good quality all weather tyres that compensate for poor road surfaces and bad driving in wet weather. Either that or it's the old US inflated ego kicking in where big is beautiful and if you've got it flaunt it, matched only by the volume of the void between the ears.
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And, MAgriculturus, forgot - no GM stuff. Sorry. :o) we were busy with the USSR collapse, country robbery and things. money you know, attractive financial schemes, "privatisation" of ex-state property, then oil and gas, what with one thing and another. forgot to sponsor science.
so laid back on the technique, so delayed, compared to progressive countries! plain scary. how will we eat our un-modified potatoes? God only knows.
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A historical reference MA. In 1913 Russia was in the world club, 3rd richest country or fourth - forgot. doesn't matter.
on bread. only bread basket.
no oil and gas, no finance money playing, what "finance?" a couple of banks only.
no industry worthy to note.
simple bread. our gold.
true, Ukraine is off now in separate voyage, a good chunk of the basket, but still. more than enough in 2009 for anyone willing to buy.
no collective farms anymore, remember?
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Overall on crisis I think the same our Anbassador (who we use by now as a local Cassandra) described it the best:
(what do you think about crisis)
(in low bass)
- Yeah.. just imagine...
Has never been anything like that... and now again!
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Buzet23, thanks for making my point for me about European domestic auto standards being inadequate for the American market. This is just one more example. It is illegal for anyone to put less than "H" rated tires on my model car. It's not a matter of ego. It's a matter of lawsuits, auto safety, and insurance payouts. Why do I need a car that can go 140 mph? I don't, I've never driven over 100 mph and then only once or twice, very scary. Felt more like aiming a bullet than driving. But the car had many other attributes I liked. How do I know that it can go that fast? Because I had a mechanic friend who serviced that brand for a dealer and he has test driven that model and others at that speed. Ironically, he was tragically killed in a car accident....by a hit and run driver while he was walking home from work. (They caught the perp.)
Don't worry about my bread supply Kashatushka, while most Americans eat our bland, soft as toilet paper, sandwich bread, I eat some of the best bread I've ever tasted in North America baked at of all places my local Shop-Rite supermarket. Strange but true, this Ciabatta bread is wonderful. A loaf of that with a stick of butter and a bottle of wine is all I need for a good meal. More and more Americans are eating whole grain and multigrain breads I don't like.
Nice to know global warming is increasing arable land in Russia. Enjoy it before the permafrost in Siberia melts and all that methane trapped under it is released. It's 20 times as effective a greenhouse gas as CO2. It may already be too late to stop it.
GM is big in the US. We are probably the world leaders. We're working on a cross between a potato and a fish. This way when the oceans run out of fish, the Brits can eat their fish and chips, both in one bite in a product we export to them :-) MacDonalds had to show Russians how to grow potatoes to meet their corporate standards before they could open up a restaurant there. The variety was obtained from their sources in Holland.
Ukraine was the breadbasket of Europe...before the USSR came along, killed ten million Kulaks and caused Russia to suffer famines. About what Mugabe recently did in Zimbabwe.
That last line about the financial crisis was not bad. Better, definitely better. Almost up to Soviet standards.
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Marcus, it is hard to hear your words, and place them in the current American context.
The USA is now on the road to a socialized economy. Obama intends to make vast numbers of people grateful for their income, instead of proud of it.
US carmakers no longer maker cars for profit. They create jobs as a social service to the needy poor. Banks no longer lend money for a profit. They take money from the government and lend it to the community as a social service.
Indeed, the USA does not even have a military for the purpose of fighting wars anymore. Bobby Gates said he doesn't want any more raptors, and congress are forcing them to be built because building them creates jobs for the needy poor.
Clearly the USA is now a socialist communist state. I suggest that with your world view, you must consider investing in a wheat farm in siberia. I'd go in with you in that venture, as would Alice. We could all go shake hands with Putin and talk about the arcane philosophy called "business".
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democracythreat and MAciabattovich,
that's exactly my view of a decent continent's future.
It is plain criminal land stays here void.
74 per cent of Russian population live in cities. That's not European "towns". That's multi-apartment buildings. I live on the 9th floor.
Has never been like that before.
It's peasants scared to death and dying from hunger in Golodomor / in 1930s decided "never again" - and re-located to cities.
BTW I don't know why spelled in English "Holodomor". "Holod" - it's "cold".
"Golod" - is "Hunger".
Hunger flop-down-famine, not famine "from cold".
Anyway peasants left land behind and became city dwellers. We have thousands so called "dead villages" (a synonym of your "ghost towns"). Empty old falling wooden houses. Nobody to live in.
I have an icon from one such a village. Ab 15 years ago my father went hunting in the north with friends, they passed through such a ghost village. He took an icon off the wall and brought home. Madonna and baby, dark piece of wood, nearly unrecognisable.
The village left to wolves etc. in 1930s.
Russian peasants can be put back to villages only at the point of a gun. Excellent memoirs. Nobody before in the world history was living on the land and dying from hunger. Especially in Volga basin, it's a joke.
Stalin managed to change it; the policy of "military communism" - confiscating every little thing a peasant would grow or produce - up to the last grain, last egg - and - voila.
The idea was - if one owns a cow or a horse or chickens - he has all bad inclinations for capitalism. Private damn property, no way. All was grabatised and confiscated. Peasants were called "kulak" - a fist. Meaning - every farmer is tight-fisted, by natural inclinations. In fact, true, all world peasants have these inclinations :o)
They know how hard it is to work the land and make a profit, and are not eager to part with their pigs and piglets.
But, at the point of a komissar gun. You know. 1/2 of Kazakhstan dead. (Kazakhs simply don't have Joushenko, that's why don't complain).
1/3 of Russia dwellers in Volga basin - dead.
1/4 of Ukrainian village dwellers - dead.
(Youshenko clever head now multiplied the amount by 4 and complains of genocide. By his figure 105% of Ukrainians living in 1930 were dead).
Joushenko's "Holodomor" hysterics now had one positive side - Russia had to look back into it (otherwise would never) - and published the 1st volume out of 4 to be - orders and documents from the archives, for historians. The 1st volume on sale for a week already - hair stands up on top on the head.
Ear/spike of a wheat. One. Can't even imagine. But a peasant caught of "stealing from the collective farm field ten wheat spikes - 8 years prizon sentence.
According to volume one - people digged out fresh graves and ate corpses. Families killed children and ate. This is "Volume 1".
And in the cities - no famine. No Golodomor. No nothing. All went well. At the peasants's cost. And USSR was selling wheat abroad.
We all know about this, of course, as relatives from villages were running to join up relatives in the cities, and told the story.
My grandma told me that - Ear/spike of a wheat. One. Can't even imagine. But a peasant caught "stealing from the collective farm field ten wheat spikes - 8 years prizon sentence. Starting from 14 years old, a "thief".
Only when all who survived ran away Stalin came back to senses, that nobody to work in agriculture. But then it was too late. Memoirs still fresh . "To live in a village - never!"
And then the 2nd WW that wiped out left-over peasants drafted to the army, and here is the result. All in the subway. Nobody in the field.
Meanwhile. For a sec. In 2008 - the meagre 3.5% of Russia's land in the private property status (private farmers) - produced 72% of all local food stuffs in the Russia's shops.
It is an outrageously productive business.
To say nothing of Siberia that stays empty.
Not only 74% of Russins live in cities; there is another scary number - 71 % of Russians live this side of Urals. Over there behind the mountain ridge it is simply pretty empty. A dozen of cities, Baikal lake, 1 railroad line - and the next place you see people is Vladivostok Pacific Coast.
No wonder even Indians from India come, buy land, settle in farms, and earn money.
We all know of one Italian who runs a dairy farm by Moscow. Foreigners when they see empty land - get very energetic. Russians - no way.
Unless somebody comes over here and starts agriculture again - the place will continue to stay empty and we will continue to live on top of heads of each other in ant-houses in the large cities.
I so much prefer it to be Europeans :o) !
Who doesn't.
Surely there are people some place who have an angle about how to approach things. There are climate options for all here. The English can grow? eels! and black currants. why do we have tons of black currants in summer in buckets and have to buy jam arriving from hell knows where. Nobody to bottle it.
We are covered by apple orchards. You walk on apple carpet. In summer. In winter -apple juice comes from Finland.
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KatushaAlice
Once upon a time, a popular song here was "How ya gonna keep 'em down on the farm, after they've seen Paree?" The lure of the big city, the bustle, the excitement, the activity. But then came the interstate highway system, overcrowding, noise, polution, traffic congestion. Until 9 years ago, I lived all of my life in the city or the suburbs. What city? New York City where I was born, the center of the human race (no, not London by a long shot, not Paris either, not anywhere else.) These last nine years I've lived out in the country in what is technically a "rural" area which we also call the "exurbs." It's beyond the suburbs. I do not have city water but get my water from a well (electric of course) and it is always unpolluted,pure, and delicious. I do not have city sewers but my drains go to a septic tank. Because of this arrangement, my property must be at least three acres by legal code ...and it is. BTW, my well is 355 feet deep, about 110 meters. And I have every comfort and amenity conceivable. So much so I hate to leave. The air is pure and clean. So is the water. It is quiet. No noise to distub my sleep. People live far enough apart so that they do not disturb each other, close enough so that they have a neighbor when they want or need one. This is peace, heaven. Deer run all over my property. Sometimes a dozen or more at a time. My two big dogs would love to chase them...but we have an "invisible fence" a wire burried in the ground that transmits a radio signal to their collars which will first warn them with a beep and then deliver a painful but harmless electrical shock to their necks if they stray to far from the house. Red tailed hawks search for field mice and moles. There's plenty of other birds including big black crows. Now and then there are wild turkeys, turkey vultures and an occasional ground hog, even a rare skunk (my older dog got skunked as a puppy and it took six months to get the smell out of her.) I would never want to go back to the suburbs or city again. Yet...I'm only one hour's drive from midtown Manhattan....when there's no traffic.
BTW, only about 1 or 2 percent at most of all American workers work on farms or in agriculture(not including illegal aliens). Yet they produce much of the world's surplus food. There are none others as efficient. Food in the US is the cheapest and most plentiful probably anywhere in the world. If the FDA would get back to where it was 30 years ago, nobody would ever get sick from it either.
I don't want to be a farmer. There's plenty of locally grown produce to buy cheaply if I want it. I want to build a Chinese contemplation garden with a babbling brook connecting several ponds with spillways, a screened in pagoda shaped gazebo, and lots of flowers. Maybe a grape orchard to grow grapes and make wine (probably poison myself but so what, it will be fun.) A rose garden and my sister wants me to build a miniature golf course. Ever heard of miniature golf in Russia? I'll have every kid in the neighborhood here every day if I do. I'll set up a lemonade stand. 5 cents a glass.
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With bread, yes, foreign bread is strange. But now Russian bakeries mastered "the art" and sell a lot of awful ones as well. The back side, contents, reads like ...(better not to read) "taste improver", "emulsifier", "E No xxx". It suspiciously doesn't get dry for days. Or, to the opposite, dries up at once like French bagets. And the taste must be exactly as you said, "bland". I don't know what the word means but sounds like "blank" so must be it.
Whole grain "healthy" options I don't like either, strange sharp seeds or seed "covers" ? stuck out of them to all sides :o)
Nothing better invented than ordinary factory mass-production rye, dark-brown rectangular loaves (700 gr). Or round rye, also about 750 (more chewy and crispy crust, more interesting to chew :o).
Or "table version" rye-wheat fifty-fifty.
Finally, OK, wheat only, if no choice, but again - factory-make, mass market big round thing.
I don't know what's wrong with bakeries; they can't make rye bread. Always idiotic attempts. Sour. Some idiotic additives.
May be the cost is justified only when you run a huge factory, and in small bakeries they're interested in profit. One of the bread baking factories in St. Petersburg smells of fresh bread 4 blocks away, mmmm.
_______
At a PC American bakery:
- Give me please a loaf of black bread, that is I mean of dark bread I apologise one afro-loaf!
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Marcus, if you recall it was you who didn't know a plough from a combine.
I'm well aware of what one is having worked on one for many summers on our family farm- until ever increasing economies of scale made it more viable for us to employ the services of a contractor with an even larger machine.
Once again, I'll refer you to the current day, when it comes to cars. Cars like current mini are far safer than much larger cars of the previous generation (like yours). They also don't feel scary when driven a 100mph, even on terrible roads like you are unlucky enough to have.
Good luck with your miniature golf course, I've got a full size one to play on.
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MAxurbs @ 55, yes, nothing to say, you seem to have accommodated yourself nicely. My compliments.
That deep a well is definitely a thing; a rose garden and 5-cent lemonade stall are worthy dreams by all means absolutely commendable. if/when you're ready I'll be giving letters of recommendation to your establishment. without any familiarisation trips, can well imagine without.
On golf can't comment sorry, we don't go well together, in experience. A very risky game last time me and golf met still have some x-rays piled on top of the wardrobe.
But then a Russian isn't supposed to play golf peacefully, is he/she? :o)
a good insurance... a helmet...
even then won't risk again.
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crosseyes, why not uncross your eyes so that you can see straight. A fifteen hundred pound car doesn't stand a chance against a 4000 pound car. Not even at 5 mph. A rediculous vehicle for the American road. BTW, we do have excellent roads and a very extensive network of superhighways along the entire length and breadth of our two million square mile nation. Yes, when there is no traffic such as out in the desert southwest, speeds in excess of 100 mph are common and people do drive that way although I think they are crazy.
I'm not a farmer and I don't want to be. Glad you recognize that your primitive farming methods in Europe are so inefficient. So your motto is "Let Abdul do it, he works cheap." That's our motto for the labor intesive part too except we hire Pedro. Eventually Pedro will become an American citizen and his children will be virtually indistinguishable from other Americans except for his name and food preferences.
KatushaAlice, sliced sandwich bread made from what we call white bread is very bland. It is like a blank pallet for a painter to compose a painting on, a great sandwich. Its function is to hold the contents without its flavor getting in the way. Wonder Bread (Look for the Red Yellow and Blue balloons on the wrapper boys and girls, it helps build strong bodies twelve different ways) has enough preservatives, chemicals, and vitamins in it to stay in the refrigerator for weeks without the slightest hint of mold or staleness. In the freezer it will last for months, maybe years. When thawed out, it's so soft you could.... The all natural Ciabatta bread I buy on the other hand is stale by the next day...if it ever lasts that long. Also toasts great. Bread is not as important in the American diet as it is in Europe. But then what would hamburgers or hot dogs be without their rolls which are nothing more than specially shaped sandwich bread. Pizza is an open faced sandwich of mozzarella cheese and marinara sauce with added toppings. And then there are sub (submarine) sandwiches also called hero sandwiches in NYC and hoagies in the Midwest. My favorits is Italian. Blimpie's best. Here's their recipe. Slice an 18" sub sandwich bread down the center. Add a layer of each of the following sliced paper thin with an electric meat slicer; Capacolla ham, Proscuitto ham, cooked spiced ham, genoa salami and provalone cheese. Garnish generously with shredded lettuce, onions, tomatoes, sweet vinagered pepper slices, olive oil, red wine vinegar, salt, and oregano. Now that's what I call a sandwich and Blimpie's Best. I had one many a night at college as a late night snack. Great with cold beer too.
My favorite rye bread is German rye. Many wonderful German bakeries in the NYC area and their rye bread is excellent. Like the Ciabatta, it toasts very well too. Great for Jewish cold cut sandwiches like corned beef, pastrami, and salami. Great with cheese or just about anything else. We also can easily get Russian Rye and Russian Pumpernickel (made dark with mollasses I think) but locally made of course. With bread it's important that it tastes fresh whether it was baked an hour ago or a year ago :-)
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Mapastrami, you've simply overeaten. that's why can't copy a blogger's name without a slip of the shaking hand. Were you on kasha surely you'd be able to spell; look for example how careful I am with your name.
One week of buckwheat in the mornings and you're a new man. will be booking a combain instead of sketching Japanese gardens.
(Even I on my 9th floor know that a large machine is of no use to be kept by a separate farm in its yard; these are shared or booked separately to come over and quickly do the work).
What ponds and pagoda-s? Better tell me how are your winter crops' prospects.
In either case don't forget about the carps. The key in a Japanese pond.
Do you submariners really eat subs? I mean, those sandwiches. Are they "subs" because of the submarine shape, or because they are in a submarine cook menu? Can't believe submariners go without hot food. ? What about soup?
I will copy the Italian Blimpie's best composition, looks promising.
Russians can't fully embrace the concept of cold food, considered very un-healthy. For students and everyone who wants to develop a gastritis or stomuch ulcers.
So the idea of a "sandwich" is being developed here, but very slowly. We're working on it, I'll put it this way. When I encounter a sandwich I carve out the stuffing and leave the bread out I'm afraid.
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Katusha, you're a real rocket.
In winter I get up at night
And dress myself by candle light
In summer quite the other way
I have to go to bed by day.
A little poem I learned when I was about six years old.
I don't have any crops. Why would I want to grow crops unless it was fruit or to make wine? Problem, how do you keep the deer from eating your landscaping. My neighbor across the street spent $24,000 on landscaping one year and the deer ate most of it in a week. One thing I miss from California is the Santa Rosa plums. Best plums I ever ate. Very hard to get the real thing here in the east. Even in California they're only in season for about three weeks. Fairly large, very dark red inside, very sweet, very jucy and intensely flavored plums. Very soft too. Don't see many black currents around though. I liked the red ones as a kid. Very tart. My father transplanted them to another part of the yard along with the blackberries and strawberries one year and they all died.
The trick in the pond is that it never freezes all the way to the bottom. There is always liquid water for the fish to swim around in. Don't know how to do that in my area though. Would have to stock them in summer. Will also have to re-grade the land to create a difference in elevation between the ponds for the spillways. I'll pump from the bottom pond to the top but the bottom pond will have to be large enough to handle all the water if there is a problem with the pump. While I'm fantasizing, how about the curved Japanese bridges that go over the spillways like in Monet's paintings. This is going to cost a lot of money...and take a lot of work to maintain. Pedro, are you listening? Ooops, the guy who cuts my grass is named Peter. Should I call him Peter the great? Peter and the Wolf. All petered out after a hard day of gardening? Three acres takes several men a few hours driving around on their lawn mowing tractors to cut the lawn. That's all there is now, 3 acres of lawn and about 20 trees. I'm no farmer. Not even a gardener.
The pagoda will be screened in to keep the flies and mosquitos out when I eat there or watch television. I'll have to find someone to perform a tea ceremony in a Kimono. Have any suggestions? Not looking for a Geisha, just someone to serve green tea. I'm not particularly fond of saki. Make mine Scotch. And for you Katusha, vodka? Will that be peppermint, pepper, or strawberry? They say that the Katusha rocket is not very accurate. Wherever you try to point it, it goes where it wants to no matter what. Same as my older Rottweiler.
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#52 MAII,
Making your point, do you not realise a H rated tyre is only good for up to 125 mph and there are few cars in Europe that can't come close to that speed. Personally, many of my previous cars had V rated tyres, but then the USA always cuts corners at the expense of safety so good luck with your advanced technology, you need it in the USA.
PS have the US invented the wheel yet (again), whoops they're probably just claiming to have as usual.
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buzzoff
"PS have the US invented the wheel yet (again)"
Yes your PC. You're spinning out of control on it this very second.
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Marcy, if I had some kind of eye condition, your school yard name calling might be offensive - but even if that were the case I'd have to be blind, death, and have a totally closed mind to miss the point as often as you do.
The farm I was referring to has constantly adopted the latest agricultural techniques and the shift in machinery I referred to was just one example. If we were talking about something you actually knew about (such as electrical wiring of the 1970s) then maybe you'd have a point, but you don't.
Back with the cars (again) I know that a largr car is generally safer than a small - if you're comparing like with like - so a current BMW 5 series is probably safer (for the occupants) than the BMW Mini. But a large car of 10 year old design (even much less depending on manufacturer) is often much more dangerous than an up to date small car from a decent manufacturer - the crash tests proove it.
Now I'm not suggesting you go out and buy a new car, that could be wasteful and I understand you might be rather cash strapped right now. Far better to invest in bicycle to work of some of those steaks. Maybe it will free your mind and remove whatever it is that stopped you from absorbing any new information for the last 20 years.
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me #65, that would of course be deaf, not Death. I understand the Grim Reaper to be relatively open minded.
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Mapontius, @61.
Poor Mapontius, trying to create a Japanese garden in American prairie.
This reminds me; "A Russin breaks a brick over his head in two occasions only: One - when he is a mariner. Two - when his soul is asking for it." :o)
So your soul is asking for a Japanese garden. In the prairie. :o) What to do. You can't refuse your soul intricate desires, bad for morals.
If you were sweeter to the English here, they'd advise you; they're world experts in gardening. Alternatively, you could have obtained some help from France in these blogs ("French regular garden" notion.)
But, LOL, MA, you know :o)
So you'll have to be content with the Russian advice. :o)
We oscillate btw these two - "natural" English approach to gardening and geometrical lines, clear borders seen where is what, bright patches, flower-beds - the French approach.
"Regular park" and "un-regular park" (French and English).
The English BTW would have recommended you to in-build deer into the scene, since they seem to be a natural component there and kind of, an un-avodable one. As you say, eating your landscaping away.
What do they eat best? Make a venue for them to pass through. Plan deer paths! From attraction menu point to the next eatable attraction! If you have to have them sculking around, try to route them as minimum. somehow.
A typical Japanese deer pass-through, say.
Pond we tried carps as well, yes, freezes through, carps are seasonable. Grandad even tried swans ho ho. Then ducks. Eaten and stolen away by neighbours the first night. So we simply settled on "natural" frogs LOL. (these come by themselves).
MA take my word a pond looks best if you plant trees around it bending graciously into the water kind of. One side open with steps down to the water three sides trees on the perimeter. Makes it mysterious and shady and lyrical.
(Adore red currants have only 1 bush left after Gazprom turned upside down everything laying me pipes for gas) (no gas) (I simply laid pipes if to sell dacha at some point. the house is falling, so pipe ends 1 metre from the house by plug. imagine a gas pipe in the shifting travelling wooden house. it will move the pipe with every spring in un-freezing time, all ground shifts and the house together with it) (ground here freezes 1.7 metres deep)
(red and black currants alike love watery soil. either you tuck them right into your pond ;o) or create a marshy ground corner then it will work)
My grandma had lanscaping diploma LOL and applied her skills only once on dacha. Highly recommend. From whenever you enter your ground make a central path to the house and plant rose bushes on both sides in 3-4 rows deep creating a live pricky hedge. Not straight, but curved lines, in front of the house the path forks and splits into two paths, "embracing the house" going round it. This rose highway directs visitors to the house (and deer in your case) nobody likes to step to the sides jump over pricky rose bushes. Behind the roses on both sides you can have all the rest you have planned, pond systems (ours is on the right side behind the rose line),pagoda, currants, apples whatever golf course and lemonade.
That's about all sensible I can see in the dacha design.
What about small fence made of wood say breast/neck height. Thin. Painted green. Fencing a total no-no in your area? At least partly. No deer would go through the fence, they will walk around. Make it with openings btw the boards, and thin thin boards, so you can see through. May guard off away your deer from the most interesting places. Dopn't fence all, just a part where it is most interesting for the deer.
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I've seen English and French gardens and I don't like either of them. I saw the gardens at Versailles. Not my idea of beauty. I do not want to make nature look like a geometric object. Topiaries are the worst thing you can do. English gardens look like a patch of weeds to me. Don't like them either. Japanese gardens are designed for contemplation and inner peace. The entire purpose of moving out to the country was serenity.
Trees hanging over a pond may look good but when the leaves start to fall in it during the autumn, they make a mess. Weeping willows are very bad. Filthy awful things really. Never that. Haven't decided about flower beds around paths to the house yet. Still thinking about paving a circular driveway. It would take a lot of roses to fill that route. I'm thinking about a row of Chinese maples on each side of the driveway. Eventually they will overhang it to create a kind of arbor I think.
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Well, MA, if you were near I'd lend you some roses, LOL. I am giving them as presents left and right, excavate together with a good chunk of the soil and award. Russian dacha roses (mine in this case) are best, as they are abnormal roses. Normal roses you can cut and put into a vase or whatever. Ours you can't, they are small bushy tiny tender pink pale smelly fluffy ones, that fall down all petals when cut and put in water at once. Not pedigree roses you need for the live fence, but kind of wild ones. That look like tangled bushes where you don't know where is what. The advantage is the un-pedigree no-name ones don't ask for things. They don't ask for a gardener, for being covered for the winter, they don't ask watering or whatever. As min I didn't do nothing to them, and I think nobody did in 60 years. In effect they became survivors, simply expand by themselves shooting roots to the sides under ground to emerge as more roses. And these bloom 8 July to about 10 August full stop. The rest of the time it's a tangled hedge.
Arch ways beautiful but none here, apparently something that arches over the road doesn't live here.
Highly recommend grapes to weave the house. Grandad brought 2 from Sebastopol, nobody saw any grapes as you can imagine in 3-months summer climate and minus 30 in winter, but leaves and weaving climbing they still do.
Pond with trees around yes leaves in guaranteed. May be a problem for you, with the pump motor plans. Willow no too sad, birch trees I have of course around the pond, what else! and oak trees (small).
The round around the house paths/drives yes good, it keeps you busy running around the house and bumping into people, creates a drive. I circle round around like a bee.
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Overall MA develop a proprietory habit; buy some Baily liqueur or some expensive chocolate boxes so that neighbours won't think you a beggar - and start visiting people ! looking at their gardens and asking for a bush/aplant/a flower/a something/a small tree to be excavated and carried off away to your place, and planted there. You are often in travel! how about casually excavating all you see on the road... some cactus or whatever, and bringing it over home. Visit all relatives, and don't leave any acquaintance without complimenting some of their greenery and grabatising it with!
How can you know what to landscape if you don't know what grows on your ground? You need to do experimenting first a lot.
I know with you Westerners you buy via catalogues but really this is un-hearty, does not remind you of friends and places, un-interesting, and the real things anyway are the ones that got rooted for real at your friend's places, and live well in practice.
We once brought sun-flowers from Ukraine; was a very funny summer. No sun-flowers but some 2,5 metres- 3 metres high bamboo going somewhere up, and you stand among them like between trees and all wonder. And high high up there are some funny yellow small plates. They tried their best to reach the sun :o)
Another time my mum brought with a coke palm from Papua New Guinea, in a blanket. In minus 40 I met her with the palm in blanket in hands. Well this didn't make it to the garden, but lived under the table lamp 24 hrs. and still was saying "no, not warm enough."
But you never know what will catch on. Bring smth from Hawaii if on business trip there.
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My posting #72 was removed because I posted the lyrics to the well known (in America) song; Where have all the flowers gone? BBC is pathetic. Google it if you are curious Alice. There are also performances of it you can watch on YouTube by famous American folk singers of the 1960s like Peter, Paul, and Mary and Pete Seeger whom I think wrote it.
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MA, a rare occurance - I know what you wished to quote! was very popular here as well.
________
On moderation (Pushkin, dear moderators. Authorship rights expired in 1837 +70 years)
"Tovarisch! Trust! It will yet rise
The star of captivating beauty!
Russia will wake up from its eternal sleep
And on the rubble of tyranny
Our simple names will be incised!"
I mean, MA, your and my names! The time will come when BBC will be selling the "moderated posts" treasure trunk"! :o)
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