More Euroblogs
In this job looking out on a sea of faces is par for the course, a sea of faces belonging to people tapping away into their laptops is more disconcerting. But that's what you get in a roomful of bloggers.
The laptop tappers were European bloggers, actual or would-be, at an event organised by the European Journalism Centre.
There is no doubt blogging played an important part in the recent American elections and the last French election - could it do the same for the European Elections in June?
The EJC is organising a European blogging competition in the run up to the elections. Unfortunately only three entrants are being allowed from each country, and the contestants have already been chosen. As part of the event there is a new fantastic resource: a blogging portal listing the main EU blogs.
One of the participants suggested that people increasingly felt disconnected from the political process and distrust the mainstream media. So he argued it was the job of bloggers like himself to put the view of the people, not the elites.
While I would defend mainstream media bloggers like myself and the other guy on the platform, Tony Barber of the FT (you can read what he has to say about the event), and I think we get it right more often than not, I am all for more spiky opinion and controversial debate from the EU member countries. I'll be reading with interest.
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
© MMX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~46~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
Mark,
If you win then it is deserved. This is by far and away the best Blog on Europe.
However, a question: Who are the International Jurists and quite what is there expertise in deciding the "Best Blog" for example.
Would not the data from the BBC as to hits and comments indicate the success of this Blog and be the real measure of successful blogging and not individuals who must have a vested interest?
As much as it is the Blogger who creates the incisive or "spiky" opinion it is the commentators who take the time to respond and interact with one another that makes this Blog so successful and make any successful blog just that.
I am glad to see the contributors do get to vote but their votes can only by made for choice confined by the EJC International Jury. Is that fair?
Complain about this comment
Interesting idea, yet I can't help wandering if this isn't a little bit of wishful thinking. It will take more than a group of international bloggers to generate any kind of interest in the Euro Elections.
As I noted in my own blog, olliinmunich, a few days ago, there are no fewer than five state elections in Germany this year, a host of local elections and the federal election - and the election of a new President. I suspect the Euro elections are going to be of little interest by comparison.
People do indeed feel disconnected from the political process, but this proposal - while a good idea in itself - strikes me as yet another attempt to generate public interest or debate that manages to ignore the real reasons why people are disconnected from the European political process.
I also noted from the thinkaboutit website that the EJC received some funding from the European Commission - I hope they manage to stay free of any undue influence from the Commission regarding content.
I'm delighted that you will be blogging as part of this project. Your blog is excellent and by far the best of the editor blogs (though as an expat in Germany it is perhaps not surprising). And I am looking forward to discovering new - to me - Euro bloggers from around the continent.
Complain about this comment
Mark,
The participant who expressed the view that "people increasingly felt disconnected from the political process and distrust the mainstream media" is correct.
The solution for those wishing to engage or just express opinion, however, is not to participate (by blogging or commenting) on marginal, hermetic or esoteric blogs, but to ensure that one's voice is heard on those 'mainstream' or 'establishment' blogs that are read (however casually) by people in positions of real power and influence.
As a 'EUrosceptic' I have no wish to discuss European affairs with like-minded people, but to express my views - views which contradict the cosy pro-EU consensus of our political classes and mainstream media.
It is true that one's lone voice can usually only be a pin-prick, but an accumulation of pin-pricks can be an effective force for change (as anyone who has experienced and fled from a cloud of Highland midges can testify).
In the EU sphere I tend to favour reading and commenting on two blogs:
Yours - mainly because the BBC is such a widely read platform (and , OK, 'cos I enjoy your reporting);
and that of
Margot Walstrom, EU Vice President in charge of Institutional Relations and Communication Strategy. She has been writing her blog for about four years. She allows the publication of all opposing views and disallows censorship (Permitting even scurrilous and rude comments - something the heavy-handed BBC Moderators could learn from). And engages - to a reasonable degree - with her readers and commentators.
As for competitions - who really cares? Does a Slovak really care what a Danish blogger has to say? Do I, as a Briton, really care for some Greek blogger's opinions about anything?
This competition seems to me to be designed primarily to elevate the profile of the EJC (who?).
Complain about this comment
I'm fascinated by the ongoing love-hate relationship between those who live on this side of La Manche and the rest of Europe.
I've found that the blogosphere provides a valuable alternative perspective on the machinations surrounding the European integration process.
Quite apart from the fact that Europe does not feature on the mainstream political agenda, except at specific times within the four year Parliamentary cycle – ie. during the run up to the EP elections, the level of general ignorance amongst the public about European matters is frightening.
The last comment (from Max Sceptic) shown above encapsulates much of the problem. European political discourse is still viewed (distorted?) essentially through individual national lens; opinions are formed accordingly.
Until a truly Europeanised political arena can evolve, in which matters of specifically European resonance can be debated and decided upon, by an accountable tier of European governance, I think we (as Europeans) are unlikely to make much progress?
Complain about this comment
padav01 @4,
For a 'truly Europeanised political arena' to evolve, there first needs to be a 'truly European demos'.
Until that happens the EU's attempts at 'ever closer union' is like putting the cart before the horse.
Complain about this comment
Mark,
The question which engages me and almost certainly cannot be answered is this: while it is stimulating and entertaining for interested folk like us to exchange strongly held views, is there the slightest hope that anyone in the body politic with real clout takes the blindest bit of notice? If they do, no responses are posted.
Yes we all know about Derek Draper and his motley crew flogging the New Labour line on Robinson and Crick but that is not the same as listening. Do our opinions count for anything?
Complain about this comment
Mark, some comments about this post.
1. I like the idea, but I wonder how much this is really about "connecting to people" if the winner of the EJC will be chosen by a select committee?
I think a major problem of the EU "managers" is that they have to start thinking in a less "control freaky" way. The winner should be chosen by readers numbers and rates.
2. I'm afraid the English-language bloggers will inevitably be more read than the Danish/Greek/Slovak ones, so whether we like it or not we should declare English (or its pauperised version Eunglish) the official language of Eublogging. This is while we wait for Eusperanto the next mainstream language :-) (Here is a reality czech for the skeptics http://www.networkeurope.org/feature/is-esperanto-back-in-fashion )
3. Finally, I would like to say to MaxSceptic, maybe to his surprise, that European non-English readers like me are interested in his rants about Europe and the EU too. In fact, I learned a lot about the so-called "Eurosceptic" mentality from his many posts. I think he touches an interesting topic, in that most of the europhobic reflexes (not only among the English) come from the fact that "Europeans" don't know each other from direct communication.
Complain about this comment
MaxSceptic: "For a 'truly Europeanised political arena' to evolve, there first needs to be a 'truly European demos'."
Indeed - and that's why you will resist, implacably, any attempt to see such affinity arise. In fact you will conspire to strangle it at birth because you realise only too well that the emergence (even in its vaguest form) of any such sentiment signals the beginning of the end for irrational opposition to the idea of "ever closer union".
In short, you're not interested in any future pathway, democratic or not, to which the descriptive term "European" might be accurately applied.
Complain about this comment
"Do I, as a Briton, really care for some Greek blogger's opinions about anything?"
Ha! And I thought this insular kind of idiocy was the preseve of certain US neocons...No! I stand corrected! British eurosceptics are olympic gold standard in this respect.Superb! They truly have hit a new low! And what is even more hilarious is that they actually think other Europeans share this mentality!
May I suggest the ostrich as a EUrophobic totem animal. I would say it was "swivel eyed" but its head head is buried deep in the ground.
Complain about this comment
This is a great idea, if the bloggers truly reflect grass roots opinion in their countries.
One of the reasons so many are apathetic about Europe is that they don't wish to be part of a political Europe.
Many are happy with European commercial links, but do not want the closer links that we now "enjoy".
If the selected bloggers in every country reflected such a view, would not European bureaucrats and politicians take such opinions into account ?
FAT CHANCE ! Most of them are on the self-glorification trail. No one would be prepared to back-pedal on what they think they have already "achieved".
And so the apathy will continue.
Complain about this comment
, lacerniagigante @7
I am delighted that non-English readers are interested in my 'rants'. ;-)
I am full of admiration for all those for whom English is not their mother-tongue, yet are able to participate in English blogs - especially as my limited knowledge of other European languages is insufficient to allow me to participate on (say) French, Spanish, Italian or German blogs.
My 'europhobe reflexes', however, do not come from the fact that I don't have direct contact with other Europeans. My views on the EU are political - not nationalistic.
I have repeatedly stated that I am a great fan of Europe - it's peoples, countries and cultures. Furthermore, for many years, I have travelled and worked extensively throughout Europe. I have many friends and acquaintances in many different European countries. (Many of them are as 'EUrosceptic' as I am.
Europe and the EU, however, are not the same thing).
Complain about this comment
padav01 @8,
Your post is one long non sequitur.
Ford Mondeo @9,
And what Greek blog have you read lately?
(The last one most Brits have read was posted some time ago by that bloke Homer).
For clarification: I am interested in UK, European and international affairs. That doesn't mean I that I need to read blogs native to all the countries I am interested in. Furthermore, when it comes to political questions appertaining the the UK, why should I give a tinker's cuss as to what some Greek thinks? Does a Greek care what I think about Greek political affairs? Should he?
Complain about this comment
Unfortunately this attempt to predetermine the debate by pre-selecting the candidates is typical of the EU mentality. Following the EU Commision 'Debate Europe' online effort (when pro-EU supporters were totally crushed) they tried ‘deliberative democracy’ where they pre-selected the debaters to keep out informed EU-sceptics, steered the debates using pro-EU moderators, and then presented the warped results as a true refection of public opinion on EU matters.
The BBC should be careful to avoid winning EU journalism competitions if it wishes to retain a reputation for journalistic independence. We already have the opening titles to ‘BBC Record Europe’ program proudly proclaiming that it has won the European Parliament Prize for Journalism. No doubt Shirin Wheeler's gushing praise for all things EU has no connection to the 5000 euro prize she received, and her gushing style did not influence Hans-Gert Pottering when handing out the cash.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/public/story_page/037-46384-019-01-04-906-20090115STO46380-2009-19-01-2009/default_en.htm
Complain about this comment
""Would not the data from the BBC as to hits and comments indicate the success of this Blog?""
Errrr, sorry, a State Broadcaster network with global ambitions built on a punitive TV tax surely cannot have anything to offer the blogosphere.
If you want a real pointer to a successful organic political blog that highlights the endemic corruption & insanity of the EU then I suggest you visit Guido Fawkes blog.
Complain about this comment
""Would not the data from the BBC as to hits and comments indicate the success of this Blog?""
Errrr, sorry, a State Broadcaster network with global ambitions built on a punitive TV tax surely cannot have anything to offer the blogosphere.
If you want a real pointer to a successful organic political blog that highlights the endemic corruption & insanity of the EU then I suggest you visit Guido Fawkes blog.
Complain about this comment
"Unfortunately only three entrants are being allowed from each country, and the contestants have already been chosen. "
Sublime irony. I do hope it was deliberate. Indeed, I desperately hope this sentence was crafted as an exact metaphor for the European parliament itself.
One of the most disturbing aspects of European Union legal evolution that I have studied is the way in which the European Parliament was encouraged towards a party based system by the commission, long before it ever had any real power to speak of.
Nobody knows where the European parliament comes from, nor how it works, not according to what schedules and regulations. All that detail is arranged by the commission. Long, long in advance of anybody ever actually becoming a parliamentary member.
So this is an intriguing question you ask, Mr Mardell. Will these bloggers be able to influence European elections?
I should say they will, absolutely. Nobody knows anything about the process, the parties, the agendas, or even the jurisdictions. All they know is that they will be voting, and these carefully selected "bloggers" will be telling them what they need to know.
This pantomime of the democratic process is so finely crafted it puts the soviet union into the shade. This is the soviet union with German precision and French style.
You know, I once asked a man from Lithuania why the soviets bothered to have elections, and what they were like. He said he that often there was only one candidate, and that they were always chosen in advance by the party. So everyone had to turn up and vote for just one candidate. I ask him, wasn't that a bit ridiculous? He just looked at me and said "Yes", like it was a stupid question. So i asked, "Then Why?" "Why bother?" I shall never forget the answer:
"Nobody wants to be a dictator or someone's party favourite. Then the americans laugh at you."
Complain about this comment
"May I suggest the ostrich as a EUrophobic totem animal. I would say it was "swivel eyed" but its head head is buried deep in the ground."
I had rather thought a better totem would be a blind cow being lead into the woods by a small group of pigs, all standing on their hinds legs.
But to each his own. I like yours, too. It works.
Complain about this comment
I agree with the Gigantic Grouper.
For all the anti-EU views of MaxSceptic that I don't share, he IS indeed very persistent and at least takes active part in the debate about Europe, unlike many other Eurosceptics who seem to be completely oblivious about anything regarding the EU.
Complain about this comment
Max Sceptic: I see the conversation has already been steered away from the central point.
I (and I believe the vast majority of readers who bother to make it here) clearly understand the crucial difference between EU and Europe.
Unfortunately mere mention of the word "Europe" in circles such as these tends to polarise opinions around the dreaded EU but as you've rightly pointed out - Europe is much more than the EU.
In precisely the same manner as those the EUrophobic community accuses of "rigging" conversations/consultation processes/public opinion sampling exercises, EUrophobes themselves are equally adpept at prejudging anyone who has the temerity to express a positive disposition towards the general concept of closer European integration, branding them as traitorous renegades, unworthy of serious consideration.
You may find this hard to contemplate but I share many of your concerns and criticisms about the manner in which European integration has manifested itself, specifically in the political sphere. However we part company immediately thereafter because unlike you, I believe that the long-term future of people inhabiting these islands is intrinsically European.
To pretend that human activity par se can somehow be partitioned in the form you might wish; an a la carte approach to the process in which those aspects of the deal you like the look of; such as trade, can be cherry picked, with those you dislike discarded like so much unwanted junk, is to divorce one's rationale from reality.
An obvious example - logic tells me that the efficient function of a genuinely homogeneous economic zone requires a single medium of exchange and the absence of trade barriers (physical or otherwise); hence the €uro and Schengen - both of which the UK is signally absent from - perhaps that circumstance tells its own story?
I agree with you that Europe doesn't function in the manner it should but that failure stems from lack of integration, rather than any excess. The EU's single greatest flaw lies in its origins; the Europe of Nations geo-political template upon which it has been founded from day one – the "High Contracting Parties" revealed in the opening lines of the Rome Treaty and all successive international collaborations between distinct sovereign partners; Europe’s uniquely hybridised form of European political evolution.
Unfortunately the world doesn't work like that anymore and the current economic downturn merely provides yet more evidence to prove that abundantly self-evident axiom.
One day (sadly, long after I have departed), Europeans will perhaps awaken to the almost limitless potential they possess, throw off the false shackles of inhibition propagated by respective arrays of self-serving National political élites and simply go for it?
Complain about this comment
padav01 - I don't know how old you are, but if you're under 60, you are up for some big surprises once Generation-E gets enters the realms of power in Europe.
Complain about this comment
Peter Davidson (padav): You always start from the position that European political integration is the answer and then work backwards to conclude that in order for it to be successful it is necessary that we start from a different world that the one which actually exists. What is the point in saying that "the EU's single greatest flaw lies in its origins; the Europe of Nations"? What is the point in saying that a European market requires the Euro and Schengan when it existed before them? If that is your starting point then anything you conclude from there is nonsense.
Complain about this comment
Gheryando (20): Support for the old federalist vision is mainly restricted to the generation of Ken Clarke and Co. whose views were formed in the 1950s. This generation is departing the scene.
In the technology industry European countries are graded into five tiers by their willingness to adopt new technology. The top tier consists of Scandinavia and Switzerland. The 2nd tier includes UK, Holland, etc. Below that are France, Germany, etc. The lowest tier includes Spain, Italy and Greece. It is surely no co-incidence that early adopters of new technology are the most EU-sceptic countries with the remaining support for European political integration being concentrated in the backwaters.
Complain about this comment
I would suggest a threatened withdrawal from the EU unless the Accounts that have not been passed for a number of years appear for scrutiny and a firm committment that the Strasbourg Circus will come to an end very shortly, there is nothing so unbleivable as this stuped shuffling between Brussels and Strasbourg. If the public were aware of this pantomine before we joined, we may not have agreed to join. It is very true that the public feel very distanced of the activities of the EU.It might help if the leaders of the various party MEP leaders could present themselves frequently on a TV any questions programme in order that the public could question them and note there voting preferences on topics. Somebody has got to get these people together for questioning . Lastly, can we have a spell checker on this site ????
Complain about this comment
#3 MaxSceptic
"Do I, as a Briton, really care for some Greek blogger's opinions about anything?"
But since you consider the opinions of 5 million Scots "irrelevant" to your politics, "Briton" seems to be a somewhat exaggerated view of your national identity.
Complain about this comment
#23 jadocam
The spell checker is nothing to do with this site - it's your browser that would provide this facility.
Complain about this comment
oldnat, oldnat, oldnat...
Do you have to bring Caledonia into every topic?
Is Scotland the alpha and omega of every discourse? (See - a Greek connection ;-P)
As you well know I said that as 8% of Britain Scottish electoral power should be 'irrelevant'. The reason that Scotland is not (yet) irrelevant has to do with a series of anomalies such as the lower number of constituency voters per MP as compared to England; the (historic) strength of the Scottish Labour Party; the Barnet formula; the West Lothian question; etc).
The use of 'Briton' is for external consumption.
Complain about this comment
#26 MaxSceptic
Thanks for the reply. I was looking forward to it, as it allows me to point out that in European terms, 11% of the population (England)
has to accept a similar level of irrelevance.
"The use of 'Briton' is for external consumption." - so you want to isolate NI as well! You're not very good at making friends with people.
Since England would have, (if I remember aright) the 5th largest population in the EU, most other countries of the EU would be interested to know that you consider that they should also be irrelevant.
I look forward to Cameron appointing you to a diplomatic post :-)
And, of course, Scotland has to come into everything for me - as England has to for you, and Finland for the Finns etc. Oh, and Europe for the citizens of all European nations who see themselves as also having a European political identity.
Complain about this comment
Freeborn-John: "(padav): You always start from the position that European political integration is the answer"
Yet another utterly false conclusion on your part?
In fact I begin with the not unreasonable assumption of a world order that has altered dramatically in the last 50 years and continues to evolve at an increasingly rapid pace with each passing year.
We can probably trace the first authentic illustration of a globalized community, inexorably interconnected and interdependent, back to the last episode of widespread economic collapse; the 1930's Great Depression.
At least some lessons about cooperation have been learnt since then and whilst the current downturn will be brutal in its impact, I believe the coordinated actions of authorities around the world will at least diminish the duration of the present difficulties.
For me, these events provide more evidence to support an argument in which the hegemony exerted by a once sacrosanct institution – The Nation State – is slowly decaying
In that respect I perceive the European Union and the integration process it has fostered as a response to, rather than an element of, globalisation. In this vision of an increasingly unstable future the traditional European Nation State, conceived in the form we traditionally understand, becomes irrelevant.
That's where I start from, just so you understand why I believe that some form of European integration is both inevitable and beneficial.
Complain about this comment
#27. oldnat
Clap, clap!
;-)
Complain about this comment
#28: Sure Peter . . . the Great Depression is why we need the EU. After all there is a recession on and rule #1 is never to let an existing crisis go by without using it as justification for more powers for Brussels. What happened to terrorism?
Complain about this comment
Freeborn-John,
where do you get your information? I fail to see your point. Surely, if you consider the youth of England, then you are right. If you consider the youth of Germany, Spain, Italy, France etc. then you are very mistaken.
Complain about this comment
Returning to Mark's bog (although I know that we don't often do that here!) ...
Three bloggers per country - does that mean 3 from England, 3 from Scotland, 3 from Wales and 3 from NI?
Thought not!
So the UK has one candidate per 20,000,000, residents, Germany about 1 per 18,000,000 and Romania about 1 per 7,000,000. What's the ratio for the smaller (but no less important) Member states?
Applied democracy!
Complain about this comment
The European society or "demos" is an increasing reality, and not only a gigantic burocracy based on the heart of Western Europe.
Nearly 1 million Romanians live in Spain, mainly for work, and the same amount of British and other Northern Europeans for the sun. It's getting a common place to leave your own country to work or to have a better life under the sun across Europe.
Thousands of flights connect daily all European cities (it's not very green though)and the TGV is about to complete its network throughout the Western side of the continent.
Millions of young European students continue their degrees in a European University out of their native country.
Many more examples could be put down here. And this is a growing reality which I cannot see it is going to stop any time in the future.
So it's getting day by day more difficult to understand what lies in the mind of those with a "national" mentality who deny (or fight) the stubborn European fact.
Complain about this comment
ClaphamBusman (32): I think the bigger problem will be the influence of those funding the blogging competetion (the EU Commision) either in choosing the 'international panel' that decides who wins, or in pre-selecting the candidate bloggers to filter out views they do not like.
It is hardly encouraging to hear Tony Barber of the FT mentioned. The Anglo-Saxon tradition of free press has been to question governmental authority, but Tony Barber is the champion of politics as remote authority for whom the journalist can serve as the transmitter of their decisions to the affected masses. The Anglo-Saxon tradition of journalists like Woodward and Bernstein is totally alien to him; His mentality is "Why question power when it is so much easier to curry favour with it by attacking individuals like Declan Ganley, or Vaclev Kalus or anyone else who questions the undemocratic path to EU integration?" This is the mentality that the EU funded journalism/blogging competitions is designed to reward, encourage and foster.
When you look at Shirin Wheeler's BBC Record Europe show (a winner of the EU Parliament prize for Journalism last year) you see that there is a real danger of FT style coverage of the EU at the BBC encouraged and rewarded by tax-payer funded 'prizes' from the very MEPs she is supposed to be reporting on.
Complain about this comment
#34 Freeborn-John
What is this "Anglo-Saxon tradition" thing you keep banging on about?
Why the obsession with the population of Schleswig-Holstein in the 5th century?
Complain about this comment
Oldnat...you're besides the point but its a funny one :)
Complain about this comment
#35 - oldnat
Oh, those were the days - when Hagar the Horrible was contemporary comment, page 3 damsels were still modest and there were rape and pillage tables instead of this girlie football stuff.
Now that's what I call journalism.
Complain about this comment
There are some interesting statement on EU "Communications policy" (i.e. propaganda policy) on the Open Europe website. One is that the EU spent 2.4 billion euro on "Communications" in 2008, but personally I also find the following section on page 40 to be of interest:
--
"As the Commission's December 2007 'Internet Strategy' explained, EU staff are now "empowered to explain EU policies and help rectify mistakes, and to redress negative publicity or speculation surrounding the EU and its activities.". One recent example of this 'rebuttal' work in action is the blog of the Head of Media at the UK office of the Commission – called "Talking about the EU", for which she is paid to monitor comments made on other blog sites and refute any 'euromyths' she comes across. For example: "I also followed up a comment written on MarkMardell's blog about the healthcare plans, when someone wrote that 'Not once in their 50-year history has the EU Commission ever proposed to return a power previously acquired by them back to the democratic arena of the nation-state'."
http://www.openeurope.org.uk/
--
Since it was me that made the original comment, it would appear that my taxes are now being spent by the EU to employee someone to reply to my posts here! Kafka could not make it up!
If I look to my original post (#27 at the link below) I see that RCalvo and SuperJulianR were the people that replied. So I am wondering which of them is employed by the EU Commission to post here?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/markmardell/2008/07/queasy_over_health_plans.html
Complain about this comment
I just took a look at the 'Talking about the EU' site to try to figure out who my taxpayer-funded shadow from the EU Commision is and the first thing I read is "A whole load of bloggers are in Brussels today for the launch of Think about It" . . .
The stench surrounding this blogging competition is over-powering.
http://euonym.wordpress.com/
Complain about this comment
The BBC journalist blogs, or any other journalist blogs are really useful, particularly for areas of news that clearly aren't as fun for the BBC to cover as the recession that they seem to be wallowing in.
The EU is obviously something that doesnt get mainstream attention unless its something major so I always enjoy reading blogs like these.
On the other hand you have these bloggers who are just ordinary people, generally with little experience or knowledge of a particular area, writing these blogs and being given attention which quite frankly doesnt merit any attention. I'm all for useful blogs but can't stand your average Joe thinking they're important because they have a blog!
Complain about this comment
oldnat
What is this "Anglo-Saxon tradition" thing?
How ignorant you are of your slave masters
threnodio
rape and pillage tables instead of this girlie football stuff!
I know you meant this as a funny but you have hit upon something that has been missed. If only News Agencies would concentrate on proper news instead of distractions of celebrity and sport. Then we would live in a muc better informed World than we have presently.
It would be even better if these News agencies were free from coercion or ecconomic incentive, be it from Government at all levels or business. (sponsorship and Adverising)
Complain about this comment
Freeborn John
As usual your comment make grim reading although i suspect that much of what you say is correct. Albiet rather unsettling
Complain about this comment
Mark,
I have just finished my participation in two interesting discussions, namely: EU-Russia tensions, and, But is it art?, and, I was suddenly struck, in a split of a second, by the evident fact that we all are participating, though quite subconsciously maybe, in the irreversible process of some global, pro- European mentality shaping where even the recently welcomed EU members are invited to take part. Therefore, we are going to write, in this very blog maybe, a new, very interesting chapter of the European history. And I welcome the invitation to take part in the competition, though I know how difficult it would be to overcome the interference of the traditional mainstream media and go directly in the mere heart of the pre-election discussions, from my home, comfortably sitting in an armchair, and tapping away on my laptop ... What I mean is that you should alter the traditional working frame of the EU elections where the national political parties are very, very eager to play the first violin partition, while we, the remaining part of your bloggers are compelled to tape away on our domestic election machineries, hoping that Mark Mardell (or rather the BBC staff) will take in mind our personnel, anonymous and non binding point of view... However, I am already in line, provided my laptop won’t fall apart in the meantime... God bless you Mark. Life is not so dull with you...
Complain about this comment
#41 - WhiteEnglishProud
Well yes but it is market driven. Sadly, the press will publish what the public want to buy and I am afraid this is as much a reflection on public sentiment as the media.
Complain about this comment
I believe the public has been conditioned by the media to want this by advertising and por quality television and by the absurd belief that they are get something positive out of this coverage.
Complain about this comment
oldnat @27:
Apologies for my belated reply.
You wrote:
".... it allows me to point out that in European terms, 11% of the population (England) has to accept a similar level of irrelevance."
Which is precisely why the UK (and England should the Union dissolve) not subsume its sovereignty and political independence into an EU super-state.
I am surprised at how many ardent Scottish Nationalist as so eager to gain 'independence' from the UK just so they can surrender it to the EU.
And let's not make any mistake about this: the final destination of 'ever closer union' is a federal European super-state.
Perhaps you can square this circle for me.
Complain about this comment
#45 - WhiteEnglishProud
I wish you were right. I have come to the conclusion that the one way to guarantee winning the next election would be to look good in a thong and be able to forecast the winner of the 3.30 at Ascot.
Complain about this comment
Freeborn-John @ #38
Your comment tallies in with the Blog comments of Mary Ellen Synon who reports the same thing in her Blog and she goes further to say that these 'spook' commentators are also empowered to sow doubt and mistrust about any organisation that criticises the EU.
Now you know that I am an ardent supporter of the EU but, like "Open Europe", I seek to comment that the EU needs to funadamentally change if it is to develop into the Union of European Nations that is required to make Europe a Continental Bloc of equal footing to the other powerful Global Blocs that are developing as we discuss these topics.
However, where we may often disagree about the UKs place in the EU, I find common ground with you that it is incredibly wrong of the EU to spend money on spinning comments within Blogs and a dreadful insult to the idea that people can speak freely and think differently without Big Brother looking on our comments and trying to shape our views.
I bet your monicker is in someone's little black book somewhere and, if the you suddenly disappear, we'll know the thought police have come and taken you away using extraordinary rendition.
Also, my money woud be on both of your named respondents as being in the pay of the EU to 'influence' Blogs in this way.
I find it quite extraordinary that the BBC and Mark would tolerate this interference and undue influence. I certainly find the idea extremely repellent.
Complain about this comment
47. At 8:03pm on 28 Jan 2009, threnodio wrote:
"#45 - WhiteEnglishProud
I wish you were right. I have come to the conclusion that the one way to guarantee winning the next election would be to look good in a thong and be able to forecast the winner of the 3.30 at Ascot."
Is that why the Tories brought Ken Clarke back?
Complain about this comment
" ... Unfortunately only three entrants are being allowed from each country, ..."
Please excuse me. I'm from Suffolk. Which are the other two blogs?
Complain about this comment
#46 MaxSceptic
I know that you find this difficult, but you're going to have some empathy to understand my response. Scotland's experience of Union has not been the same as England's.
For me there are no absolutes of squares or circles in this. Move your thinking from Geometry to "set theory", and your constitutional concepts away from Parliamentary Sovereignty to "the People" as Sovereign.
England has been massively the dominant partner in the Incorporating Union established in 1707. To understand Scotland's position you would have to reverse the population percentages, and imagine how things would have been if England had 9% of the UK population, and one other country (Scotland?) in that union had 84% of the population.
Imagine that this small England did gain benefits from that union through access to a British Empire, but by the 1950s that Empire had disintegrated.
During that Imperial period, you had to accept the downside. Your National Church was of no importance, and the House of Lords had a permanent representation from the Presbyterian Church of Scotland legislating on English affairs. While English Law was protected by the Union, it was increasingly eroded by Scottish determined legislation, based on their legal system. Your forefathers didn't let Englishness die. in response to the Scots veneration of Burns (and his poems being taught in all English schools), you venerated Shakespeare. They created the cults of Hereward the Wake and Robin Hood, to counter the Scots cults of Wallace and Bruce.
All that was acceptable until post-Imperial times when modern centralized Government occurred. Now, your local government structures were repeatedly re-organised by a British Government - different parties but both with huge Scottish majorities - which forced on you structures which were appropriate for the ideologies of different parties trying to determine how the main part of Britain (Scotland) was controlled - but with no consideration of English needs.
You want to change your system of funding local government, but the Scots want allow it, as that would threaten their system.
Similar things occur, and you look across the North Sea to Denmark - a country of similar size. They are independent members of the EU. As a small country, they have independent reresentation at the top - not as members of a European elite, as your PM of a Scottish controlled Parliament is part of the British political elite - but chosen by the Danish electorate.
Although the EU is imperfect, citizens of other EU countries have similar concerns, and reform seems a possibility. You already know that the Scots majority have given you devolved control over some of your affairs, because they have been relying for the last 30 years on the oil in the Channel. Denmark, however, has more independence than you have. In any case, if you are independent in the EU, No single country can control you as Scotland currently does.
How's your empathy Max?
Complain about this comment
To Menedemus (48):
Just a note...
Union of European Nations
That is actually a great term. In the same time...
It implies that Europe consists from invariably different nations: its a union of nations. Thus satisfying the national feelings of the people and removing their fears that united Europe would fade their nation away.
It also implies that there are no different countries nor states. Its just a one union where all nations come together, in effect it can be a one state with many nations.
Nice.
Complain about this comment
#52 Jukka_Rohila
OK. Your vision has now gone a little too far for me.
This may be because of semantic differences in English over "country", "state", and "nation" but your "it can be a one state with many nations." makes Europe sound like a bigger version of the UK, where the principle of subsidiarity has been abandoned.
Granted that such an Incorporating Union would be better than the one we currently have with England - where one of the nations is overwhelmingly dominant, but it's not what I want to see - Federal would be acceptable, Confederal would be much better. As the Americans would tell you "states rights" is an issue.
I'm more than happy to pool aspects of Scottish sovereignty with other European nations for our common good - but not all of them.
Complain about this comment
Menedemus (48): It is good to know that at least one person on the pro-EU side here is a real person who has a moral compass that can distinguish right from wrong.
I suspect quite a lot of the pro-EU people commentating here are actually on the EU pay-roll. It might be interesting if those who are not say so, and we see who is left. I have criticized Mark Mardell and his colleagues at the BBC on occasion but I don't see they can be held responsible for this. For a long time during the run up to the Irish referendum we had a former Irish ambassador to the EU posting here under his real name, and it still took me a long time to figure him out. So detecting Commission staff registering over the Internet under false names is impossible I think. If this were a battle between me in my spare time and the Commission with its 2.4 billion Euro per year 'communications' budget then this would be a battle that would be over already. But there are many Davids, and the pro-EU side's deficiency in the hard currency of Ideas is so acute that all the money in the world is not going to save them.
Jukka (52): Except that you forget what a nation is, and why the multi-national states that existed in Europe before the 18th century were all replaced by nation-states . . .
---------
"A PORTION of mankind may be said to constitute a Nationality if they are united among themselves by common sympathies which do not exist between them and any others; which make them co-operate with each other more willingly than with other people, desire to be under the same government, and desire that it should be government by themselves . . . exclusively". (J.S. Mill 'Representative Government')
Complain about this comment
"One of the participants suggested that people increasingly felt disconnected from the political process and distrust the mainstream media. So he argued it was the job of bloggers like himself to put the view of the people, not the elites."
Forgive me returning to the content of this blog, but does anybody else perceive something a bit odd regarding the above?
Note that the blogger considers himself non elite, definitely non mainstream.
And yet.... he is one of the chosen. The commission chose him. There was no democratic process.
So what are we to make of this?
That anyone called a "blogger" is therefore representative and non mainstream?
That this is an attempt by the EU to convince the public they matter, by giving them "non mainstream" blogs?
The logic seems insidious and desperately soviet to my taste. "These things are democratic. Therefore if we manufacture them, and issue them to the masses, the masses will have democracy."
I mean, Mr Mardell, you have a blog, but I doubt you consider yourself non mainstream. In fact, such is the censorship of BBC blogs, I doubt they even count as proper blogs. A blog is something everyone can contribute to, and this message board is hardly that. It is more of a column where letters are sent and published digitally, if they fit the rules of the BBC.
So are these people really bloggers, or are they journalists, paid and selected by the commission, posing as bloggers?
That is a question for Mr Mardell, if he has the time.
Complain about this comment
Why is this discussion board always veering off into the same direction with usually the same people complaining about the same things and never really changing their opinion..Mark must be bored to read it by now.
Complain about this comment
To oldnat (53):
Actually I was just carried away with branding possibilities. I'm still federalist, no need for a one state solution, but it does matter how do you say it...
Lets see...
European Union
...too vague, what does it mean?
United States of Europe
...too American, we don't want that!
Union of European States
..what is this? Is this some-kind of uber bureaucracy.
Union of European Countries
..so how does it differ from just being European Countries
But then again...
Union of European Nations
...nations are good. being together is good. and we are all European! I like that!
I like the term Union of European Nations as it does have better connotations and direct meanings than the other brand names, but in the same time its very permissive: it can mean confederation, it can mean federation with strong states, it can mean federation with strong federal government, or it can even mean one state.
But Union of European Nations, that is excellent branding.
Complain about this comment
democracythreat55 and yet he is one of the chosen.. insidious... soviet logic.
So well put I am pleased to leave the condemnation of this entirely anti-democratic EU Blog-bust in your very capable words.
Complain about this comment
#57 Jukka_Rohila
OK I'll go with you on that - it would be interesting to see the attitudes of Spain and what's left of Belgium to the idea!
Complain about this comment
Re post 38 from Freeeborn John and 48 from Menedemus, this is something that both sides of this debate can agree on surely.
Mark perhaps you could find out the truth of this for us, on the face of it there does appear a case to answer.
If E.U. staff are paid to contrinute to blogs such as this, I would not think it a good use of tax payers money. But if they do at least they should be open about it and explain their position, not hide behind anonymity. For the record I am not paid by any organisation or individual to post on this blog and am not employed by the E.U.
Complain about this comment
If the EU are really paying people to post pro-EU comments on blogs, does anyone have any idea where I should send the bill?
Complain about this comment
Re post 61, Threnodio, you would not receieve any money. You do not display the unconditional support for all things E.U. and complete disgust for all those that hold a contrary opinion.
But there are a few here that would fit that criteria, perhaps they should follow up on your idea, or have they already done so?
Complain about this comment
#62 - jordanbasset
I doubt if it will be worth the paper it's printed on by the time it gets here.
By the way, I wonder who is bank rolling the Eurosceptic wing . . . unless . . .no, surely they don't actually believe it??
Complain about this comment
If the EU does indeed use money to spin the blogs, I have to agree that it is totally wrong. The good approach here is, just like on the national level, to criticise and publicise the wrongdoings and vote for the parties that best represent the interests of freedom and public well-being.
However, no matter how much some would like to deny it, we need the EU despite all of its shortcomings in order to overcome Europe's increasing global irrelevance. If we do not want to become a playground for the future superpowers we need to act fast.
Political integration does not mean erasure of national and cultural traditions, be it English, French or German and it will most certainly not hurt the British cooperation with other English speaking nations (increasing European relevance might in fact strengthen it).
Complain about this comment
Threnodio, re post 63, re not worth the paper it's written on, don't worry ask to be paid in sterling rather than euros
Complain about this comment
oldnat @51,
I'm useless at empathy - especially when I don't agree with the details of your parallel universe.
It was a very prolix way of avoiding a straight answer.
To think that Scotland - or Denmark - will retain their independence within a federal EU super-state once 'ever closer union' has been achieved is pure wishful thinking.
If you're for Scottish independence, then why not opt for true independence?
An 'independent' Scotland subsumed within the EU will have even less of a say than it has today in the UK. Can you imaging Scots determining the future of the EU as they do in Britain? Sure, a Sottish Commissar - McQuisling? - will have a seat at the high table, but other than feeding at the trough his/her impact will be negligible.
Oh the irony should Scotland become independent and join the EU, whilst simultaneously a 'bereaved' England goes it's own way and detaches itself from the nascent European super-state.
Complain about this comment
I am bankrolling my EUrosceptic self.
Can I apply for an EU grant?
Complain about this comment
#65 - jordanbasset
Sterling? - Oh, you mean a currency which is already not worth the paper it's printed on.
#67 - MaxSceptic
You mean you are the only person in Europe who hasn't already got one?
Complain about this comment
To MaxSceptic (66):
Well the choice seems to be between these...
1. Scotland in England dominated UK which as an EU member is not taking part on development of Europe at all.
2. Scotland as an independent state out of the EU at best has the same kind of trade agreements and benefits as the Swiss, from which either participant can withdrawn at any moment, in another words relying on benevolence of the EU, and at worst being EEA member getting continues faxes about directives concerning standardization of Kilts.
3. Scotland as an independent state in the EU: pickering and negotiating with other 27 states in multiple venues, trading votes with others and usually getting watered compromises that suite all.
To me both options as an independent state seem to be better than the current situation and lets not kid ourself, UK is not going to withdrawn from the EU, not even if David Cameron and torys form the next government. I would say its more likely of UK to join Eurozone than UK withdrawing from EU.
Complain about this comment
61. At 5:59pm on 29 Jan 2009, threnodio wrote:
"If the EU are really paying people to post pro-EU comments on blogs, does anyone have any idea where I should send the bill?"
I certainly know what you can do with it - same as with the Lisbon Treaty and the "EU"-flag.
Complain about this comment
# 67. At 9:34pm on 29 Jan 2009, MaxSceptic wrote:
I am bankrolling my EUrosceptic self.
Can I apply for an EU grant?
# 68. At 11:24pm on 29 Jan 2009, threnodio wrote:
"#67 - MaxSceptic
You mean you are the only person in Europe who hasn't already got one?"
Threnodio - that seems to imply that you are getting one, which seems to confirm my suspicions.
Complain about this comment
Mark, this article makes reminds me of an anecdote where Kaiser Guillaume II affirmed that the lie was most obvious during a war, after hunting and before elections… To that matter, I shall appreciate if some blogger of this lovely audience will comment the following possible development: if the recession in the EU is more and more evident, which are the chances for the socialist fraction in the European Parliament to win more seats than the right fractions?
Complain about this comment
Mark:
i hope that your blog will win this prize....
~Dennis Junior~
Complain about this comment
This is really an enlightening experience! Though I often read Mark Mardell's blog, I have never bothered to plough my way through the comments.
Apologies to most of you for actually bringing you back to Mardell's original subject, but I was one of the representatives who attended the Th!nk launch in Brussels last week (I am a British blogger.)
I constantly heard that most people don't give a flying fig about the EU elections and was fully prepared for the process of engaging people in a blog about it, to be an uphill struggle. But clearly from the fervent comment going on here, that couldn't be further from the truth.
You can visit my blog here:
studentjournalist.wordpress.com
http://www.thinkaboutit.eu/author/etansmallman/
Complain about this comment
Re post 74, oranguatan, an interesting blog - good to see
Complain about this comment
I have been using the EU`s Europa Debate Forum for several months and it`s troubling how little the BBC tells us about the EU which isn`t naively positive towards momentous issues like enlargement and all the residency and job seeking opportunities that have been imposed upon us without any debate here in the UK.
Now we have what amounts to a one party state (with a Labour (?) government down to less than 200,000 members in a population of nearly 70 million people....and a complete refusal to debate Europe among the electable parties)....surely the BBC is our only democratic lever left?
Now the BBC is running travelogues and pro Turkish accession programmes without alerting us to the significant potential problems associated with Turkey joining the EU.
What are you up to? Are you journalists at all or part of a propoganda machine?
Complain about this comment
RCalvo: (85) The EU Commission poster apparently took office at my comment that not once in its 50-year history has the EU Commission ever proposed to return a power previously acquired by them back to the democratic arena of the nation-state. They say this is no longer true since they recently proposed to remove the EU legislation on the maximum curvature of cucumbers. Henceforth I will post that only once in its 50-year history has the EU Commission ever proposed to return a power previously acquired by them and that on a trivial matter.
Indeed the current situation rather reminds me of the pre-1971 Stormont Parliament in Northern Ireland where the Protestant majority dominated the law-making process for 50 years and only once allowed a measure introduced by the Catholic minority (concerning wildlife) to be approved. As I recall that sham democracy ended rather badly too.
Complain about this comment
Mayotte, an island off Madagascar, has voted to change their status from a French overseas territory to a French departement, ie, county. In effect Mayotte will become part of Europe. I don't think the French overseas territories have the same European status. How can Europe accept this situation? Mayotte will if it becomes part of Europe be entitled to substantial finance, yet it seems Europe has no veto on the subject. Obviously many members of the British Commonwealth would be interested in receiving cash from Brussels. Is this a case of the French cheating or are we powerless to prevent Mayotte's entry?
Complain about this comment
cataluk: There are already overseas departments that are integral parts of France (and thus part of the EU): Reunion, French Guiana, Guadeloupe, and Martinique. These overseas departments are within the EU customs area, but are outside of both the Schengen area and the EU VAT area. Mayotte would join the EU customs area once it becomes an overseas department.
Other French overseas territories, such as St-Martin, St-Barth, St-Pierre and Miquelon, &c., are not part of France proper, and thus not part of the EU, although they may use the euro.
Should EU countries have the power to veto any expansion of a member state, e.g. should there be some sort of EU veto on the plan for Bonaire, Saba, and St-Eustatius to become an integral part of the Netherlands ? Hypothetically, if Montserrat voted to become an integral part of the UK, and the UK were amenable to it, should the EU have the right to stop that from happening ?
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS