End of the British carrot?
There have been dire warnings that food prices will shoot up, jobs will be lost, that no carrots will be grown in Britain, and big food may move production outside the European Union because of today's vote in the European Parliament on pesticides - or "plant protection products", as they're now called.
In the vote, 577 MEPs backed the ban on upwards of 20 types of pesticide ingredient, which cause cancer or damage to hormones. I haven't got a breakdown of how the parties voted, but it seems the vast majority of British MEPs, like the British government, were against.
So, it is mainly the British who don't like the new rules: the reason it will become law is because when ministers looked at it, the UK, with only two allies, was outvoted.
But views are clearly and sharply divided. The commission has welcomed the vote, saying it's a good way to start the New Year, protecting human health and the environment.
Greenpeace says it doesn't go far enough, arguing that banning 20 or so products out of 400 dangerous chemicals used means food in Europe will remain dangerous for years to come.
Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan says: "The decision means food prices will go up for UK families, as local farmers struggle to keep afloat in what are already tough economic times".
The National Farmers' Union warns of "a devastating impact, with agriculture and food production seriously threatened".
Lib Dem MEP Chris Davies says "this new law will stimulate research and the development of safer alternatives that simply would not happen if no controls were introduced".
But how different is the British climate? Is it really so different from northern France, Germany, Holland and Belgium that they have voted to ban products that will leave our agriculture reeling?
I’m Mark Mardell, the BBC's North America editor. These are my reflections on American politics, some thoughts on being a Brit living in the USA, and who knows what else? My 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~47~RS~)
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We should do what the French and other Mediterranean "partners" do, give the EU the British Archer.
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I can't see our government allowing 100% of our food having to be imported due to laws being passed which gave unfavourable competition to British farmers. Just imagine the carbon footprint of all that import, the number of jobs lost and the civil unrest. Still the idea of angry men armed with pitchforks closing in on Downing Street does amuse.
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We'll all have to start growing them at home!
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My grandfather was a farmer. He got sick from DDT, a pesticide that has, by now, been banned and eventually died prematurely. I am in favour of this regulation. Many farmers don't even realize it is to their own advantage as well.
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Perhaps it was due to the fact that the UK actually undertook a proper impact assessment and based it's arguments on sound science and risk rather than scaremongering.
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End of the British carrot?
Is that the one that you have to remove a couple of mm of the outside because it is unsafe to eat due to the concentration of pesticide?
I grow my own and live with carrot fly and assorted creepy crawlies and slugs that eat the carrot before I can get to it, but I doubt the British public will want to do the same!
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Guys like Orwell and Huxley were so wrong about the true nature of society. The world will not be dragged into perpetual misery by savage intellectuals fighting for total control of mass populations. The world will not lose it's soul and meaning because incredibly clever technocrats somehow work out how to take away the freedom to be wrong.
No, the world is going to slide into the murky depths of human suffering because half educated people can't shut up, and will not get real jobs. Legion upon legion of ever grasping social studies graduates are going to legislate society into a quivering, quaking mess of garbled hysteria.
First the money needed to be all the same colour. Then people measured things the wrong way. Then the air was too warm. Now the carrots threaten our very lives.
In between all that, some arab in a cave somewhere was going to take over control of the global economy. And murder everyone.
My question is this: How much tax can the few who work be expected to pay, for this grand advice about the next impending doom, before the parasites go and get real jobs, doing real things for real people?
How much government is too much?
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I think we should think long and hard about our membership to such a quango stazi type group of highly inflated unelected minnows who believe that all those voters within the European Union owe THEM something for putting these ridiculous oultandish laws together in the first place.
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It just sums up how far we have come from the Wilson Referendum in which I voted 'Yes' to UK membership of a Common Market.
In 1975 I did not dream or have a nightmare presentiment of the menace to UK society that lay ahead.
In 1975 there was no small print hinting or stating that one day a Common Market dominated by Paris-Berlin-Brussels would decide for British farmers the production methods & texture of Carrots.
Truly, nothing more that this venal, corrupt EU institution does will in any way come as a surprise.
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Here in Lincolnshire there is alarm and despondency about the proposed EU regulations about pesticides.
It is not so much how they will cope in France and the Netherlands that is the problem, but rather in Spain and Portugal. The rivals for UK-produced vegetables are in Iberia: they force-grow produce in unsustainable conditions, which harm animal and plant life and wreck rivers and estuaries. The weather means longer and warmer growing seasons. Big plastic tents adorn their countryside. If the EU has a green agenda they should favour Lincolnshire veg rather than Spanish. (Apart from anything else, the supply-lines are shorter - less lorry-miles).
As the pro-pesticides lobby in the UK seems to be bi-partisan, then there is an opportunity for the UK government to act. They should refuse to endorse this EU policy. Keep things the same as they have always been. There is nobody who has died of cancer on account of eating a British carrot. British veg is safe. This is an ideal opportunity for a Labour government to show that the EU does not interfere willy-nilly with British law. This could be of advantage to them in the forthcoming Euro-election to counteract the claims of UKIP and others. The British Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DE-THRO as it is known) has a poor record. This gives them the chance to do something right for a change. It would be one-over on the Tory opposition.
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Gheryando
Very unfortunate your father died of DDT poisoning: Banned for 20+ years now.
However, your suggestion many farmers do not realize it (the EU chemical ban) is to their benefit is really condescending. Almost all UK farmers, like those across all west Europe, are highly trained, educated and well-read on all Agriculutral issues. They do know about the issue's pros & cons and as responsible providers to the wider community do not take unwarranted risks with their produce or their customers.
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I'm really fed up with this endless jocularity of style in relation to EU issues. It amounts to DISinformation.
Here we have a democratically elected Parliament from the whole of the EU - including every region of the UK - and the serious efforts being made there are being discounted, and also implied to be due to nationalistically fuelled machinations by Johnny Foreigner out to do our farms down.
NOT so, Mark, and you know it.
The case for the BBC reporting Europe in a far more serious fashion, and in depth, is unanswerable. It could start with this blog.
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If these products are really dangerous then
- Why has taken so long?
- Why wasn't there emergency action (like for BSE etc)?
- Who has been affected?
- Can compensation be expected?
- What is the total bill expected to be?
- Is food to be recalled?
If none of the above apply - what are the EU doing wasting our time and money on marginal activities that only seem to exist to give them an excuse to use our money to keep themselves in luxury?
Did you know Mandleson got a £2.5 million house on his EU salary?
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Production of crops using minimal pesticides is obviously a good thing. The best way to achieve this is by genetically engineering resistant characteristics into the carrot parents.
Unfortunately if politicians continue to stick their noses into agriculture, having been briefed by anally retentive jobsworths with no practical experience, we shall end up producing less food than ever.
The reality is that the world needs to double its food production in the next twenty years and the resources just are not there. Chopping away at well managed tools such as pesticides controlled by sophisticated computer programmes linked to weather stations simply makes food production more difficult and much more expensive.
Providing that pesticides are managed and controlled and used specifically they are safe.The fear mongering, I am quite sure in many cases,relates to vast amounts of chemical being eaten over hundreds of years which just would not happen.
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Good for the EU!
Anyone who actually read the British 'sound scientific evidence' will have realised that they were making very strange assumptions that seemed to minimise the effects... Such as the assumption that someone would only ever be exposed to a small amount of the pesticide for no more than thirty minutes, and that those exposed could then wash it all off and not be exposed again.
It seemed to totally ignore that people live next to fields being sprayed, including the farmers themselves, and can't prevent continual 24 hour exposure to the pesticides. Which has some bad consequences with a lot of them.
It's pretty clear to me that both Labour and the Conservatives were lobbied pretty hard by the industry, and are preying on 'anti-European' sentiment to try and bull past it.
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Pests vote against pesticide.
What's the news in that?
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/sussex/7507733.stm
Well at least a woman from Sussex will agree with the measure.
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If Tescos et al would pay our British farmers a fair price for their produce, then they wouldn't be forced into intensive farming practices that requires the use of such dangerous chemicals.
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It seems that when scientists and bee-keepers are desperately worried about the dramataic decline in the bee population, for farmers and growers to insist on spraying pesticides throughout the countryside is about the stupidest thing we could do.
If we lose the bees, then the issue of what we spray on crops will be purely academic - there won't be any growing for us to spray!
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Perhaps if as much money was spent on organic farming research as have been on on pesticides the yields would be comparable eventually.As in so much of our lives,there are vested interests wishing to keep things as they are irrespective of any damage done. Isn't DDT still used in some parts of the world where laws are less stringent?
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Here we go again. Jobs for the boys. They constantly find half truths and do a quarter of the operation right. Billions of cost in operating the EEC personnel just to tell us again there is something we cannot eat, breath, wear, smoke, ride, or work in/on. Tiresome meddling paper pushers
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I counter the bugs that harm my carrots with other bugs that harm them.
Natural circle of life wins.
Besides, most of these pesticides and fertilisers our agriculture is dependant on is dependant on oil. The sooner we try to phase away from it, the better.
Prices are going to rise one way or another. The question is, do we want to take our pre-credit crunch attitude of instant gratification at the cost of the future or begin the hard trek to what will ultimately provide us with a cleaner, self sustaining system.
The only challenge to this is that population is increasing at a crazy rate and that is obviously going to put pressure on food production.
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Feninist Jo - find me a poor farmer? They make a fortune out of playing the rules and regulations. If they cant grow carrots believe me they will get a huge cash subsidy, and most of them were not growing carrots before either.
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Better to wipe out the commercial carrot than wipe out human populations. As it is, commercial carrots are orange coloured ...er, and that's about it. The carrot as I remember it when it is home grown from composted earth is a delicious nutritious vegetable. The modern version is a poor relation grown without love – for the earth, the carrot or those who eat it – so why bother. All the big commercial farmers are concerned with is making money (yawn). Commercial chemical farmers are their own worst enemies and ours as well. A plague on them until they clean up their act. They always roll out the old blackmail about world food shortages. High intensity farming has existed for many years now and if it hasn't cured food shortages by now it never will. Mankind has done pretty well for tens of thousands of years with small scale farming and only a return to localised food production will solve modern man made problems. Trouble is you can't make big bucks from it. But we were never meant to.
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I resent a democratically-elected parliament telling me I cannot eat pesticide-laced food. In the name of freedom, I am now going home to poison myself with cyanide.
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Here's one more way the EU won't be competing in trade with the US and others on an equal footing. I love it. BTW, if the EU is so concerned about cancer, why doesn't it try a massive sustained campaign to try to get people to stop smoking cigarettes? How about an end to alcoholism or at least a stab at it? Well that's their business. That's what being part of the EUSSR is all about. Welcome to "The Community."
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geojames44 johnny foreigner jocularity?
I am curious: When is it permitted to point out that the EU is made up entirely of foreigners?
Afterall, the English are not Scottish anymore than the French are Estonian or the Greeks are Swedish etc.!
As for democratically elected MEPs from across Europe: Again, I'm curious as to when does 'democracy' kick-in exactly?
Is it simply with the right of every EU Citizen to vote in which case much like the Peoples Republic of China the electoral process appears to have distinct democratic procedural limitations, or, is it when a majority of the European Citizens entitled to vote choose to participate and therefore MEPs can legitimately claim a mandate to act on, e.g. Carrot production?
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This will now mean that a product is automatically banned because it contains a hazard, regardless of whether it is dangerous when used as directed. This is total lunacy. If one were to extend this criteria to everyday household products in the hands anyone, not as is the case of pesticides in the UK, which are restricted to highly trained and regulated agricultural technicians.
Then petrol, diesel paint and just about everything we keep under the kitchen sink would be banned.
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I have just halved two punnets of Egyptian strawberries, covered them in Tequila from Mexico and covered them in sugar grown in the Caribbean.
I will leave them to soak for about a day so that they juice up and become incredibly delicious to eat.
The good news is that the Tequila will probably offset any pesticides used in Egypt, Mexico or the Carribean and, if I die, I will die happy, drunk and replete.
I entirely concur with the complaint of democracythreat at #7 where he asks the rhetorical question, "How much government is too much?"
In simple terms, Europeans have allowed themselves to become over-governed both at national and supranational level.
I just wonder why it has become the role of government officials and legislators to seek to nanny us all so that risk, fun and pleasure have almost become illegal across the width and breadth of Europe.
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As already said, do as the French, just ignore it. Unfortunately our eco-tree huggers will all be swinging from the branches crying foul.
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Writing from France I can tell you that French farmers' representatives have long been keen to keep as many pesticides and herbicides in their barns (and on their produce) as anyone else. These are the guys who represent prairie-sized farms. And there aren't so many neighbours to worry about (not sure whether they really care so much about their workers).
Smaller farmers (certainly in my area) feel rather differently. They have to spread these products themselves and would work towards a less pesticide/herbicide regime if prompted (and that's down to their own Government as much as Brussels).
Ah! and there's the nub of it. Individual national governments are generally in favour of strong controls (as the EU vote implies) but they would rather the EU gets the blame for these unpopular measures than they themselves. That's what the EU is for.
I grow my carrots next to onions and garlic. That seems to keep the pests away.
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It's good for your health and you guys stills complain... interesting... Ah! ok! It comes from Europe, so that means that you need to complain...
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As a farmer I could do without this, but puplic health should come first. But what about food imported into the EU that has had these banned pesticides used on them in there production, surely this food must be banned from entering the EU??? If not, what is the point of the ban.
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So wait a minute. Up to the time of the financial crisis, when we had never had it so good, we were all queuing up to buy tons of over-priced fruit and veg because it was 'green' and 'good for us' and the growers who had discovered healthy nosh were beating a path to their banks with their profits.
Now somebody has had the gall to suggest that the alternative is actually bad for us, it has suddenly ceased to be profitable to 'grow green' has it? Suddenly, out of the blue, all the farmers are going to go to the wall?
This is a European directive. British farmers have not been singled out for harsh treatment here.
You may not agree with the measures announced today but please do not politicise this one. It apples throughout the EU
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Never has a quango been more needed.
But dont worry everybody Im here.
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Re post 34, Threnodio, hi, the fact it applies across the E.U. surely does not automatically mean it is not political.
For example a majority decide red wine is bad for you, E.U. decides to ban acrosss europe. It applies to everyone, so does that mean it has no political dimension. Would not cause too much of a problem to the U.K. or countries in similar climes, but not sure French would see it as having no political dimension.
The current carrot issue would appear to have more an affect some countries than others, it is political
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biochar wrote:
"As a farmer I could do without this, but puplic health should come first. But what about food imported into the EU that has had these banned pesticides used on them in there production, surely this food must be banned from entering the EU??? If not, what is the point of the ban."
I totally agree
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As we discovered last year, thanks to the BBC, the British carrot is purple. European carrots are orange. Thus, the extinction of the orange carrot in Britain should be welcomed by nationalists, surely.
Frankly, I do not see what the fuss is about. Agriculture wasn't doomed when other pesticides were banned, there is little reason to suppose it will be doomed this time either. At least, from this. Most of the damage to British agriculture has been from unsustainable practices in East Anglia resulting in severe degradation of the soil. A land that was once marshy but fertile is a dust-bowl.
And if pests are a problem, perhaps the farmers might like to explain why hedgerows (the predominant living space for predators to said pests) have been largely ripped out across the landscape and what they intend to do about it. I can only assume that since they are doing nothing about it, that pests cannot possibly be the problem claimed. Besides, hedgerows are cheaper than pesticides.
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Here in the Pacific Northwest of the US, the climate is quite similar to many areas of the UK - damp. There is a large amount of organic carrot production here - it doesn't appear to be a problem. The main issue is insects that can be blocked by cloches over the carrot beds. I think the cloches end up costing little more than the pesticides.
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Excuse me but what is the problem here? When I first heard about this directive from BBC, I instantly looked on Finnish news media about this directive. The only place that mentioned was from a newspaper called Maaseudun tulevaisuus which is mainly read at rural farming communities.
This is what they had to say about the directive. Translated from Finnish to English.
---
European Union tightens environmental quality norms on controls of harmful substances on surface waters.
European Union directive concerning environmental quality norms of harmful substances comes to effect today.
The directive sets upper concentration limits in rives, lakes and coastal waters for 33 harmful substances. The aim is to protect water environment from risks caused by these substances.
These substances are predominantly industrial chemicals and pesticides and heavy metals. From these 20 has been classified as dangerous.
Environmental quality norms are used to determine the good chemical state of surface waters. The chemical quality of rives, lakes and coastal waters are good when determined norms haven't been exceeded.
Good chemical balance of waters should be reached by 2015. In Finland now accepted water quality standards have already been used to in advance to classify the chemical state of rivers and lakes on water management planning currently conducted.
---
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Now is this the same directive that is in talk here? Well I certainly think so. Excuse me, but after reading what BBC had to say about the issue and what our farming newspaper had to say about it, I have a feeling that they have totally different take on the matter.
From the article of Maaseudun tulevaisuus it would seem that this is about protecting the environment and that its actually doing a sensible thing. From the BBC and other British media it seems that the EU is just micromanaging without reasons.
In this case I have to say that the article in our farming magazine seems to lay out the thing more reasonably.
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There are certain fruits such as apples, pears and cherries which I used to eat with no problem which now give me an allergic reaction because of the pesticides used. I'm all for a ban on these products because their long term effects could be deadly.
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We must base decisions on how to feed people and protect the environment on good science. The UK government opposes the new EU bans for that reason. Why can we feed over 6 billion people today? Why do we live longer healthier lives? We are not being poisoned.
On DDT: it is almost impossible that the contributor's father was killed by DDT as it has very low toxicity to mammals. DDT is also very beneficial to prevent malaria when sprayed in tiny doses on the inside walls of buildings. Get the science right.
Crop protection chemicals must pass much more extensive and stringent tests than medicines. Coffee is much more dangerous. Plants are all full of natural pesticides - that is why they don't keel over and die. We are all made of chemicals too. Get the science right.
Or if you prefer, would you like to choose which of the 6 billion should starve?
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#36 - jordanbasset
Hi - I agree in the sense that for reasons that are not political, decisions of this kind tend to take on a political dimension. Your example is a fair one. Clearly countries where it is not practical to make red wine will be less adversely affected than major producers by measures specific to grapes. My point was that I was beginning to detect the familiar rumblings of "unfair to Britain" and "attack on UK farming methods". Obviously if you are going to banned from using some chemical or other on British carrots, you are also not going to be able to use it on cabernet sauvignon grapes. To that extent, cries of foul should fall on deaf ears. If anyone thinks this is flawed on principle, let them say so. I am just hoping this will not turn into an excuse for the usual
eurobashing.
#35 - CarrotsneedaQUANGO2
My goodness Carrots, have you been booted off Robinson or is the situation desperate?
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Oh no, there went my comment to moderation, maybe to never again surface...
In essence I translated an article from a Finnish newspaper Maaseudun tulevaisuus that wrote an short article about the directive in discussion here.
The main point of the article was that this directive is all about surface water quality: the chemical balance in rivers and lakes and coastal waters. The directive sets upper concentration limits to 33 harmful substances in surface waters.
So this is not about the end product, food, but this is all about controlling and minimizing the external costs of agriculture, namely polluting water resources.
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threnodio @ 43
Your point is a good one but in fact the politicisation is the reverse as usual.
In the UK the Farming Lobby and the NFU have fo ryears had the ear of parliament (probably a hangover form the days when Parliamentarians were landowners!).
I am afaraind that, as usual, the NFU and Farmer Lobbyists will be crying foul and suggesting that "johnny foreigner" is messing with British Farming but the truth is that, for years, and years, and years, British Farmers have been over-farming and milking the British Arable farmland with intensive farming methods and using currently legal pesticides.
They are not entirely to blame as their profits are squeezed by Super- and Hyper- market pricing pressures but they nevertheless do use cheap immigrant labour and intensive farming methods to squeeze the most out of their land and keep their costs as low as possible.
On the other hand, as someone quite rightly pointed out (and why I posted my comment at #29), there is no point hampering the EU Farmers and their farming methods by putting constraints upon their use of certain pesticides and chemicals, when their is so many foodstuffs imported into the EU about which the consumer has no knowledge whatsoever about the farming methods used to produce those imported foodstuffs.
That is where the political debate should be taken. What is good for the goose should also be good for the gander!
Meanwhile . . . .
Back to my Egyptian Strawberries and, if I die from Egyptian pesticide poisoning, I would like to be cremated and my ashes cast upon the waters of the River Tweed!
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My grandfather used these chemicals for years and, living right next to his apple trees, was ALWAYS exposed to it. There was no doubt that DDT had a bad influence on his health. Either way, its outlawed now for a reason.
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If these pesticides are really so dangerous why have I never seen a person dying in the street clutching a carrot?
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#38 - imipak
Sorry to be tedious but I read that purple carrots are believed to have originated in central Asia, possibly Afghanistan. A purple skinned carrot with orange flesh has recently been developed by Texas A&M University.
Perhaps you are thinking of the purple tomato developed by the John Innes Centre in Norwich. Claims for cancer prevention are associated both with the Norwich tomato and the Texan carrot.
I confess that I have never been tempted to Google purple carrots before. Is this subject really that boring?
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43. threnodio
Nahhh long train trip.... just a bit board.
Tip of the week: always peel your carrots, its where the pesticide residue settles.
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But no so bored that I want to google purple carrots.
;-)
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This is excellent news and long long overdue.
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Personally I would rather they regulated garlick. Or at least made it available only on prescription.
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15. At 2:37pm on 12 Jan 2009, greypolyglot wrote:
Now that SuffolkBoy2 has returned is there the slightest chance of him replying to Unhappy New Year # 191 regarding the "superiority" of "British" weights and measures?
191. At 11:52am on 07 Jan 2009, greypolyglot wrote:
# 175 SuffolkBoy2
"The British system of weights and measures is better. I do know both systems better than most"
Oh dear, you set yourself up. The metric system is originally British.
google "mattwardman and bishop john wilkins"
(bbc doesn't like the link)
and
bbc metric system was british
(bbc doesn't like the link)
"Apart from my activities as a maths (math) teacher ..."
No, I'll refrain from writing what I first thought.
"I have studied at continental universities."
I suppose everyone was too polite to point out to you that the weights system you erroneously call British "avoirdupoids" (hey, does that give you a hint) came from the continent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoirdupois
Oh, by the way, inch, foot and mile are Roman. The Romans, if I remember correctly, were continentals."
I don't care where the "British" system came from. I use the word "British" as a label and not as a definition. Some call it British. Some call it Imperial. Some apparently call it Avoirdupois. I do not accept that there is a right or wrong here. I will not be prepared to engage in a discussion on that last point as I do not have the time. I suspect that you have more time than me and that you are retired.
It is not a claim that it would be superior because it was British. I do not claim that everything British is superior. Far from it. I claim, for instance, that the British health service is rubbish and that that in Germany is far superior. So is the Swiss system.
I still claim that the British system is better for the average person. It is not better for scientists and they should use the system that suits them.
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8. At 12:17pm on 12 Jan 2009, Gheryando wrote:
"SuffolkBoy,
I like both the EU and, behold, America (and thus Americans). How do you explain that?"
My experience suggests that you are an exception. I have interrogated a number of "EU"-lovers, British and German who have started bad-mouthing the Americans. I don't mean just criticising them. I can criticise them too,. I can criticise the UK too. These people hate the USA. They got onto the USA whilst talking about the "EU". That indicates to me that being pro-"EU" is about being anti-USA, at least for the majority of committed "EU"-lovers.
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30. At 5:09pm on 12 Jan 2009, John_from_Hendon wrote:
"There are retard isolationists in all generations - don't think it is a generational thing. (SB2 may be only 12, not 112!)"
I am not isolationist. I want to have good relations with the "EU" countries from outside the "EU". I believe that the "EU" causes friction and hatred amongst Europeans.
I am appalled by the state of foreign languages in British schools. I have some ideas as to how to do things differently. My ideas may be good or bad. The fact that I have them indicates that I am interested.
Neither am I retarded. The fact that you resort to lies and insults to make your case indicates that you do not have a real case.
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Threnodio!
You have complained about opponents of the "EU" resorting to "abuse."
Please will you tell John of Hendon off?
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40. At 8:39pm on 12 Jan 2009, threnodio wrote:
" ... in the face of growing evidence of ambivalence and sometimes hostility, there must be those who are beginning to question the usefulness of Britain to the EU in much the same way some Brits appear to feel about the EU."
Good!
Enoch Powell went to Germany in 1968 and tried to tell the Germans in German that it wouldn't work. Did they listen?
Helmut Schmidt once said that in fifteen years time all these problems with the British would be in the past. He has since admitted he was wrong.
We don't have a functioning democracy in the UK. One way to get out of the "EU" is to get the continentals to throw us out. "EU" membership actually creates an incentive to annoy our neighbours. That is a big shame. Please would they throw us out before people get violent. That is not a threat. It is a concern.
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Mark:
I think that it could end of the era of British carrots--is very true and it would be a sad day...
~Dennis Junior~
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Yet again today I have net somebody who has just been on holiday in Cyprus. Just like the last one, she reports that there has been an incredible increase in prices due to the Euro. She reports that the Cypriots are really depressed.
Iceland! Learn from Cyprus! Don't join the Euro!
When Germany got the Euro something I used to buy from Germany trebled in price.
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Viennese newspaper reports claims of young man being kicked in the face etc. by Viennese policeman.
There is just too much of this on the continent.
There are just too many such reports to make the general impression implausible.
I don't want continental policemen arresting people here in the UK. I don't want to be in a political union with the continentals. I want to learn from the good things on the continent and be able to avoid the bad things.
At least Austrians seem to be trying to do something about it. I have not seen any evidence to suggest the same determination in other "EU"-countries, but then I don't know them as well.
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To SuffolkBoy2 (60):
Lets make a deal. The continental polices wont come to UK to kick young men to their faces and police from UK wont come to continental Europe to execute Brazilian electricians.
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"Plant protection products" - LOL, worst euphemism ever!
Oh, and 60+ comments on CARROTS! Really, you should spend your time more wisely.
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If both the pharmaceutical and the environmental lobby groups are unhappy for opposing reasons, this must be a good compromise.
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@Jukka_Rohila - nice comeback.
SuffolkBoy2 - Maybe I'm the exception, but I believe the trashtalk about USA is more like a sibling badmouthing his older brother because he is annoyed at what he can do. However, when someone from out of the family attacks, then the siblings stick together. Same with America and Europe.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
64 - Gheryando
I am with you on this. If anything the evidence is that EU countries which have been seen as hostile to the US are coming back onside. The Sarkozy presidency in particular has been bridge building furiously after the fallout over Iraq during the Chirac period. Also, the accession nations of the last two tranches are, without exception, Atlantancists.
Yes there is some evidence on the streets of hostility towards the Bush administration - GITMO, Iraq, extraordinary rendition - but that is all about to end. Suggestions that to be pro EU is to be anti USA seem to me to be fantastical rubbish.
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#56 - SuffolkBoy2
"Threnodio!
You have complained about opponents of the "EU" resorting to "abuse."
Please will you tell John of Hendon off?"
I don't recall doing so but I will take your word for it. Things did get a bit heated on the last thread and I think I did tell JOH off as it happens.
However, just for the record, I am thick skinned and they can hurl abuse at me if they want to. It's water off a duck's back and, as a rule, abuse is a bit like violence - people who resort to it do so because they have lost the argument. You certainly have never resorted to personal abuse and, while I may not agree with you, I am happy to address the points you make.
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Jukka_Rohilla, "..UK police not come to Europe to execute Brazilian electricians.."
It is always a curiosity for me the way the actions of one particular set of people are taken to represent the entire organisation/grouping from which they came.
Mr de Menezes did not deserve to be killed.
The Policemen concerned in the shooting do not deserve to be pilloried.
Mr de Menezes had lived as an immigrant in the UK for 6 years and clearly was trying to make a better life for himself and his death was a tragedy of immense proportions. His efforts and his ultimate fate do not represent all immigrants prospects in the UK.
The Police Marksmen who had the task of securing the lives of all the general public in London on the day of Mr de Menezes' death were tragically misguided but their ultimate actions do not represent all Police in the UK.
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#55 SuffolkBoy
You say: "I am appalled by the state of foreign languages in British schools"
Yer - but like so many people leaves skool and dey cant even talk da inglish proper innit!
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Re post 68, well said Sir
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To ikamaskeip (68) and jordanbasset (70):
Did you ever read the comment from SuffolkBoy2 to which I was replying?
So let me get this right.
You have no problem with SuffolkBoy2 making a judgment of all police forces and police officers in continental Europe based on the fact that some polices in Austria kicked some man in face as he alleges?
So did you read the comment from SuffolkBoy2 or not? If you did then you are hypocrites as you didn't object to his statement.
Now actually I disagree with you on the lets-execute-the-Brazilian-electrician incident. It tells lot about the British police, this wasn't just an isolated incident of using unnecessary force or police brutality, no this incident highlights that there is something very wrong in the culture of British police. I would also alleged that there is something deeply wrong in the justice system as no police to this day has been put on trial charged on the death of the Jean Charles de Menezes. I'm not saying that these polices and their superiors should be charged of murder, but their act constitutes a manslaughter from which they should answer in a court of law.
In the mean time I have already taken countermeasures in case I happen to run into British polices coming to spend holiday in my country, which I suggest you all who especially those who live in Britain take a note...
1) When police ask you on "are you an Brazilian?"
Say: "I'm not an terrorist"
2) When police ask you on "are you an electrician?" Say:"What is this electricity thing? Is it something that I can eat"
If the police questioning you has any doubts about it they will shot you. If you get 1 out of 2 wrong, they will shoot you and send to Guantanamo Bay for an holiday sponsored by MI5 and if you get 2 out of 2 wrong, they will execute you by shooting directly to head.
Remember that you are all terrorists until proven otherwise.
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#26:
The EU can only act within the limits of the competences conferred on it by the treaties.
The Commission is actually doing a lot on tobacco prevention (ban on tobacco advertising, etc.)
But on health issues, it cannot do much more (lack of legal basis).
If a ban on pesticides was introduced by the UK government, would you be equally sarcastic?
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Jukka_Rohilla you are becoming a tad unpleasant with your comments and there is no need for you to do so.
Yes I read suffolkboy2 but did not think a reply from me was needed whereas your reply and now this 71 response shows a degree of hostility and misconception that does need attention.
For your information: British police culture is not to carry weapons and there are only specialist armed units in the UK. Police use of weapons statistics compare very favourably with most of Europe. Sadly compared to Brazil Mr de Menezes' killing by a UK Officer was about a 1 in 7 million chance and only 1 in 250,000 in his native Brazil.
Also, there have been various official enquiries into the de Menezes tragedy and the Officers concerned have been exonerated although seriously faulted. The de Menezes family have been offered substantial compensation although nothing can replace their child.
As for UK and Finn Citizens dealing with the Police: Let me assure you that a Citizen stopped in England is likely to feel much less oppressed on the UK Highway than when confronted by the gun-carrying Finnish Police of Helsinki, Lahti, Kuopio, Kusaamo, Rouvaniemi etc.
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To ikamaskeip (73):
Hostility and misconception? What? So let me get this right. If somebody like SuffolkBoy2 makes an hostile and misconceive comment about continental police forces the correct procedure is not to make any comment about that, but if somebody replies back with same recipe then that comment deserves a reply? So where's the logic?
Are you saying that it's a-okey to make comments about continental police, but when the same kind of logic is used to comment British police then its not a-okey?
And hey, lets make something clear here, the fact of the matter is that British police have shot innocent people, de Menezes was executed, others like Mohammed Abdul Kahar were just shot 'accidentally'. Big deal! They were just terrorism suspects! Fair game! Ain't it so?
Also how can the officers in de Menezes case have been exonerated when they haven't ever been in court? The fact of the matter is that IPCC has only investigated them, but IPCC is not a court, IPCC doesn't even involve prosecutors. In other countries its the prosecutors office who makes the decision to bring charges or not and in other countries the courts are the only ones who can exonerate.
Also please note that IPCC is not very fit to do decisions...
"In February 2008 over a hundred lawyers who specialise in handling police complaints resigned from its advisory body, citing various criticisms of the IPCC including a pattern of favouritism towards the police, indifference and rudeness towards complainants and complaints being rejected in spite of apparently powerful evidence in their support.[2] The IPCC responded to these criticisms with a letter to the Guardian. [1]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Police_Complaints_Commission
Also we should note about the de Menezes case...
"On 13 October 2008, at an inquest into the death, a police surveillance officer admitted that he had deleted a computer record of Cressida Dick's instruction that they could allow de Menezes to "run on to Tube as [he was] not carrying anything." At the inquest he told the court that "On reflection, I looked at that and thought I cannot actually say that." The IPCC announced that it would investigate the matter "[at its] highest level of investigation".[45]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes#Investigation_into_suppression_of_evidence
So is the police bad in Britain? Well I don't know, but one thing is for sure, I'm not going to find out. UK alongside USA have been crossed over from my travel plans for indefinite time as are all other third world states.
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Jukka_Rohila @ 74
That sounds to me like the opening for another deal like the one you offered SB2.
If you promise never to darken the lands of the the UK, please rest assured that I will not be landing anywhere within Finland any time ever.
The thought of visiting a place that is the back of beyond but has the higest rate of Homicide in Western Europe does not excite me enough to even consider travelling there to find out more. (See: Crime Burden in the EU)
I'll take my life chances with unarmed British Bobbies rather than risk getting murdered in Finland by a homicidal Finn, ;o)
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To Menedemus (75):
I really do have to wonder on to what heights you Brits go on to deny the existence of Belgium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Thought I have heard some theories that Belgium actually isn't officially located in western Europe, but at the borders of Belgium starts an dimensional rift leading into another dimension.
Now going on to your EU report...
"In 2004 levels of crime were most elevated in Ireland, the United Kingdom, Estonia, The
Netherlands and Denmark and lowest in Spain, Hungary, Portugal and Finland. Factors
associated with high levels of crime include urbanization and the proportion of young people in
the population.
And I do have to question you on where did you get the homicide rate? In example if you look at Wikipedia lists, the difference between UK and Finland isn't that big, 2.75 homicides per 100 000 inhabitants for Finland and 2.03 for UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate
Actually I don't deny homicide rates. The best way to get killed in Finland is when being drunk or being out when huge amounts of others who are drunk are out.
But all in all. Yeah, I rather take my changes here than in UK were some police officer could make the mistake on thinking I'm a terrorist. I even have an Indian/Pakistani surname (just coincident) so there is even more likelihood on getting in trouble. Or lets say like this, in Finland the police just use old style force to bring you down, in UK the anti-terrorist unit is called into shoot everybody and ask questions later.
To USA I'm not going as TSA is so full of incompetent people that they would probably think that I'm an Indian/Pakistani terrorist as they probably have some Rohila in their terrorism suspects lists. On the other hand, getting a tan wouldn't be that bad, and in Guantanamo I could study Islam, they have great benefits, for example you don't have to settle just into a one woman but can have multiple! Great!
Otherwise, yes, yes, we make a deal, but only for indefinite time, not forever, I still have hope that Brits someday find their inner little European and join us other civilized people once again and Americans I hope to return consuming and driving big cars instead waging eternal war against what ever they don't like at that moment.
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Jukka @ #76
I am not sure what the suicide rate for Belgium and the existence or non-existence of Belgium has to do with the price of eggs.
Nevertheless, given that the population of Finland is the 5.3million making it one of the smallest countries by population in the EU one assumes that you must have vast areas of uninhabited land up there. One has to wonder what the Finns do with all that empty space?
Perhaps the size of Finnish heads is a factor that reduces the amount of space available?
There again you know what British Armed Police would think about someone with a BIG head? More of a target to hit and make sure you stay down when shot!
Perhaps you should reconsider and make it a definite and permanent deal to stay away from the UK? ;o)
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To Menedemus (77):
I have a large head!
Heart attack!
Must stay focus!
Fear! Fear! Fear! Alarm!
They are already hear! They have a consulate!
Must focus! Must barricade inside! Must go make bombs! Must destroy the evil doers! Focus! Focus!
END OF TRANSMISSION
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Jukka_Rohilla you are becoming increasingly strident and vexatious with your style of Comment.
No one says you cannot reply to 'suffolk' only that we did not agree with the content of your reply to that person. Nowhere did I write that Comments on Continental Police are not allowed!?
No one says there is nothing wrong with UK Policing methods, but that your Comment on it is open to debate and in some respects is wholly inaccurate. E.g. It is the Crown Prosecution Service in England that determines whether there is a legal case for a Trial (like in Europe they are independent of the Police) and this applied to the Police in the de Menezes' case. Mr Kadur was shot in an incident and survived to make his complaint which is the subject of what in UK is called due process of law. I do not know why you refer only to the IPCC investigation which is a joint Police-Civil body that the de Menezes' family rightly and legitimately made a complaint to about their son's death, but, which incidentally would automatically make an investigation of any and every gun-related death in England. In addition to the CPS and IPCC investigations the Coroner's Enquiry took evidence from all available witnesses and concluded that Mr De Menezes' death was 'not unlawful'.
It may be that like the very unhappy de Menezes' family you do not agree with the conclusions of the 3 Official enquiries I have mentioned, but, that does not make you right, only differing in your opinion.
Finally, where does all this hostility to the UK come from: Until this debate you appeared quite rational in your pro-EU, anti-USA & other topics?
Several children and adults in Finland in the last 12 months were killed in gun-related tragic incidents: If we take your line that a Policeman shooting an entirely innocent Brazilian is symptomatic of the whole Police Force then it may be concluded Finland's schools are at risk! Of course, the UK knows from Dunblane etc. that no such simple and wholly unfounded generalisation is applicable to Finland or to the UK.
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Jukka, Finland is a gorgeous country (3 times size of UK), with 65,000+ lakes (Inaari, Paijanne, Kallevesi and the Saimaa region), long white-water river Angling (delicious Trout, Salmon and Moikku), immense forest (size of England), Lapland and Father Christmas (Reindeer, Elk , Bear, Wolf etc.), the holy of holies the Makkara (sausage), some wonderful architecture and architects (Aaltoetc.), scintillating artistry (Iittala glassware, Kermansavi crockery, Hackmann cutlery etc.), wonderful and rare language (Kalevala, Alexis Kivi, Vaino Linna etc.), fantastically high education standards, the magical Sauna, the Nokia phone and SISU!
Why would any Finn bother with the UK!?
Goodnight and good luck.
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if its not good enough for a bug to eat then why would i want to eat it?
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Carrot - Introduced by the Romans, carrots have been popular for 2000 Years
Leek - The national vegetable of Wales.
Radicchio - a chicory leaf used in salads. Popular since ancient times, modern wide scale cultivation of the plant began in the fifteenth century close to Venice in Italy.
Kales - Until the Renaissance, kale was the most common green vegetable eaten by the people of northern Europe
Brussels sprouts - traditionally eaten with Christmas Dinner in the UK
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The Roman invaders contributed to the long-term improvement of the British diet by introducing proper vegetables to the island. The list of vegetables introduced to Britain includes garlic, onions, shallots, leeks, cabbages, peas, celery, turnips, radishes, and asparagus
The Romans also brought new farming practices and crops. They introduced more productive grains and bread became a more important part of the British diet. Walnuts and sweet chestnuts were another Roman introduction. They also introduced a wider variety of fruit that was brought into cultivation rather than growing wild. This included apples (as opposed to crab apples), grapes, mulberries and cherries.
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burgertron @ 83
The Romans also introduced Snails into the British Isles.
I wonder what other creepy-crawlies they introduced to Britain's shores that the British farmers feel they now have to counter with 400 assorted pesticides and funghicides that we might not have had to use if the Romans had not brought with them your assorted list of beneficial edible plants, roots and shrubbery.
Not all invasions are as helpful as you imply!
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Pesticides Action Network, who were quoted by the BBC welcoming the decision, turn out to be an EU funded body according to their accounts.
Does the BBC intend to issue a clarification?
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Mark you would do well to ask the Minister and the British MEPs who voted against, if they buy organic food at home.
Then you can ask them why.
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farming will survive without these pesticides. It managed to do just that for most of the time when farming existed, it'll do so now too.
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Oh dear! The British are the (only) victims of yet another EU plot!!
The British attitude to virtually anything agreed in Europe is nothing short of pathetic - be it border controls, currency, free movement of people, chemical regulations, working time - the list goes on and on.
Why is everything that is so good for the rest of the EU and it's citizens so bad for the UK??
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To ikamaskeip (79) and (80):
Fish and chips, warm beer and gals are alone enough reasons to visit UK.
Now to go back to the subject at hand.
All things happen for a reason. There is no such thing as accident or incident. All things are caused by something. When something abnormal happens, when something out of the ordinary happens, there is a reason and cause for it.
For example in Finland we have had two school shootings in short time. Coincident, I think not. There are reasons and causes why these things happened and if we don't find out those reasons and find solutions for causes there will be future school shooting.
What we are in essence talking about here is a system failure. Our system failed first on not preventing school shootings and secondly it failed by causing them in the first place. In this case the system that failed is our society - our state and our culture that fuels it.
Let me give you examples on what went wrong...
Our gun licensing system failed. Wrong people were able to obtain guns for all the wrong purposes.
Our oversight systems failed. Police were given a warning, but they had no access to Youtube and thus were not informed enough, if they have had access to Youtube they could have arrived into a different conclusion.
"Finnish police had been informed about the YouTube videos in an anonymous tip-off on the Friday before the shooting. The police talked to Saari and searched his home on the day before the incident, Monday 22 September. They found no reason to arrest him as he held a temporary weapons permit." - Wikipedia
But of course guns don't kill people, people kill people. So why do people kill?
One reason maybe mental medication that can have severe by-products in some people, in example in-ability to feel. Both Auvinen and Columbine shooter used mental medication. So does our health care use right kind of tools to treat patient or is it maybe too much concentrated on giving medication to people?
One reason maybe our general culture. Does our culture idolize and except that individuals sort their problems by themselves? Does our culture idolize solving problems with violence?
One thing I sure know, we have a serious problem in schools and in our society on treating other people. All school shooters, including the first one in 1989 in Rauma, and the mall bomber where all seriously bullied in school for years and that bullying had left them with emotional scars. The Kauhajoki shooter had even been bullied in the army. So a really good question is what is wrong in our schools? Why schools can't prevent bullying? Why kids want to pick other kids?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jokela_school_shooting
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myyrmanni_bombing
The things is, school shootings are an alarm that something is very deeply wrong at our society, in our culture, we have severe system failure that is allowing and producing these kinds of things. So all in all, relatively Finnish schools are safe, but we have more higher risk on somebody going crazy than other places and countries.
Now if we go back to the de Menezes and Kadur shootings, the things is that they not accidents, they are not alone incidents, they are an system failure. The system, law enforcement, goes very much wrong in some place and that produced all these things. Usually when a state function so directly goes wrong, so severely produces unwanted results, heads have to fall, mistakes and errors must be produced and those who were either guilty on not following orders or producing faulty orders and procedures must be searched and punished to correct the system. I'm afraid that as you haven't had adequate investigation, as heads haven't fallen, the system hasn't been fixed. The next time when there is a terrorist strike or fear of strike, the police will do the same mistakes over and over again leading to deaths and maiming of innocent.
Now to jump in topic. Please, look at the post of SuffolkBoy2 (60) and my post (61). They both are from the same recipe. Why? Because even thought SuffolkBoy2 sometimes makes good comments, comments like that he made about continental police, don't deserve cool commenting, what they deserve is replying with the same tone and recipe.
"In continent police kick people in the face."
"In Britain police execute Brazilian electricians."
Same recipe.
Now your mistake was to reply in my message with seriousness. What you got back was unpleasant, strident and vexatious comments, that I did make in all purpose, because you failed to take reply or target your message to SuffolkBoy2 who also should have deserved the same response as both of our comments were from the same recipe. That to me looked like hypocrisy and thus warranted more heated reply.
Lesson to be learned in here: don't throw yourself in the middle of turd war if you don't want to take part on it.
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Getting back to the original debate addressed in this blog post, perhaps readers would enjoy a look at the biggest losers in this EU legislation-companies like Monsanto that market the pesticides!
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/05/monsanto200805
Am I being naive when I conclude that comapanies like these pose a far greater threat to the British farmer and the British food supply than the EU? Monsanto can actually burn and destroy a farmer's entire crop in the US with no prior warning for "patent infringement" and in doing so, Monsanto is not breaking the law! Whilst bashing EU MEPs, ask yourselves if you are defending British sovereignty from foreigners, or foreign chemical manufacturers' 'legal' right to destroy British farmers and exploit the consumers of the UK for their own monetary gain? At the end of the day, it is not just about power and politics. It's about money!
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Jukka_Rohilla I forgot to mention Sibelius, Koskenkorva and Finnish girls as reasons for staying in Finland. However, that was an incredibly long, tedious and mainly uninteresting reply you posted. I think I've said all I have to say on this topic except that I am free to choose who I may or may not want to Comment on. On previous topics you and I have made contributions and some of yours were very interesting and others were not (incidentally, re previous article on EU: Your "underground tunnels in Helsinki" built against Russian attack, are of course a massive Car Park these days and in summers I've had my car-washed 3rd floor down").
Good luck with your future Comments.
Heipa!
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ATNotts 88 the British are indeed victims of the EU. At least I can provide massive evidence of the English being in such a position. My reaction is not that we are the 'only' victims but that England and the English are the ones that concern me as I am a native of that land.
For 15 years now Survey after survey, Poll after poll etc. has revealed English Public opinion opposition to Membership of the EU running at 75 to 80+%.
The EU without any Electoral Mandate from the UK or English voters continues to legislate and create laws, regulations and organisations that directly interfere with the sovreign Rights & Responsibilities of the English Citizen. No UK MEP received more than 37% of votes cast from the derisory 34% of total votes in the 2004 EU Election.
'Victimisation'! If a work colleague or schoolchild was the subject of such overwhelmingly deliberate, cruel and unusual malpractise the compensation would run into millions!
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To ikamaskeip (91):
Of course you are free to decide on to whose post you may or may not to comment on. You should just note that replying to a certain comment and not to another can be seen as an statement itself.
On a note, those underground tunnels are still there, reserved and classified only for army usage. They are there waiting for Russians or any other to make an unwelcome visit. Helsinki, like any other city, has lots of other underground tunnels and places, your car park probably being one of these.
Cheers!
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carrots will never die out you dont need chemicals to grow them my grandfather grew them for years in large quantities without pesticides and chemicals just good old fashioned compost
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Mark please consider something more interesting than carrots next time you pick a topic on EU-Britain saga. This conversation is dying a quick and deserved death. Even the EU-sceptics can't find much to say about it.
I should admit that it only got interesting due to the Finn showing a different facet.
As to pesticides surely it would be best to ban them all so that we can drink the water, swim the rivers enjoy the chirping crickets and see the stars, or have we forgotten what these are?
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In general most Europeans would welcome it if the UK left the EU. They know you don't want to be "ruled" by nasty foreigners in Brussels.
They don't want you to feel unhappy. They will trade with you and talk to you about your problems if that is what you want at any time.
They will prevent your banks "infecting" their banks on behalf of American Banks.
You will, of course, need visas to travel to Europe. (And we will need visas to visit you).
Your goods will become very expensive and if we don't buy them perhaps China will.
They only people preventing Britain leaving the EU is your business and finance establishment whose agents (HMG) are busy spending your wealth saving them from their mistakes.
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The DDT example is a good one. Scientific progress requires us to have a proper fresh look at how we do things. DDT was sprayed on human beings to remove.....lice! Being a 'slow killer' it took years and years to get that stuff banned. I refer to the wikipedia for a list of diseases that have been proven to be caused by DDT.
The argument of rising food prices and struggling farming communities is, to put it mildly, short-sighted. Personally, i rather live in a healthy soceity than a WEALTHY one.
To me this is yet another example of the anglo-saxon flavor of capitalism favoring business rather than plain and simple quality of life for the population.
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I have come down with a cancer GIST twice so I am keen on eating healthy food .
So I am in favour of the ban .
In long run it is profitable
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92. @ ikamaskeip
*the British are indeed victims of the EU. At least I can provide massive evidence of the English being in such a position ( ) For 15 years now Survey after survey, Poll after poll etc. has revealed English Public opinion opposition to Membership of the EU running at 75 to 80+%.*
You fall once again on the perennial absurdity of the EU-phobics, a trap in which virtually all of them fall, often dressing their EU-phobia with Anglo sphere intellectualism.
How on earth can the British be victims of the EU when the EU is not forcing the British to stay in the EU? Norway and Switzerland are outside the EU (although in many respects more integrated with the EU than the UK itself, cf. they are part of Schengen, but that is another matter), so if the EU couldn’t send their tanks (figuratively speaking or not) to force Norway and Switzerland into the EU, how did it manage to force the UK to be a member?
The British are, if anything, victims of the Public School clique that rules them under the pseudo-democratic pretence of the FPTP electoral system. It is them who have the power to put you out of your misery by taking the UK out of the EU.
Get real man. Stop reading the Murdoch press and start to think. Only in the UK you can find the absurdity of the electorate voting for anti-EU parties for the EU parliament - who has no power whatsoever to kick the UK out of the EU - but not for the British parliament, who is the only entity that can take the UK out of the EU. I just checked here http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hcio/party.cfm and couldnt find a single MP in the British parliament from UKIP, how cool is that????????
I think the anti-EU camp needs a new party: the Kafka party. Its manifesto would be as follows: We will vote for anti-EU parties to represent us at the EU parliament, where they will be totally powerless to do anything to take the UK out of the EU, but we will NOT, we repeat NOT, vote for anti-EU parties to represent us at Westminster, where they could be reckless enough to propose a vote to take the UK out of the EU, and BOY WE DON’T WANT THAT!!!!!!!
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No. 10, your attempts to scaremonger and slur the Spanish producers of fruit and vegetables are both unseemly and inaccurate. Having worked in the industry here in Spain (not any more so no conflict of interest) I can confirm that it is totally slanderous and wrong to say the producers here 'force grow' and ignore EU regulations - you forget that the over-officious UK government and supermarkets check pesticide residues very carefully on imports while disproportionately favouring home producers who produce lower quality produce in less quantity at higher cost - because of the weather. There is much more plastic over the UK countryside than the Spanish, higher pesticide use and often UK producers need to use artificial heating which is both costly and not green at all. Almost every EU food scandal in the last few decades has involved the UK, whose reputation for food safety is in the toilet - not implementing this legislation will just ensure that UK agriculture is blacklisted abroad and rightly so. If Holland, Ireland and Scandinavia can cope-all bigger agricultural economies with similar climate-then so can the UK.
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92., your anti-EU fanaticism is simply breath-taking in how it blinds you to the truth. The paranoia of the huge plot against England is laughable.
EVERY general election since 1970 has been a referendum on Europe. Parties wanting to remain in Europe keep winning the vote. There was a referendum in 1975 which was won hugely by the 'yes'. This issue is closed, done, decided and democratically. You want out of the EU, well vote for UKIP. Until they have a majority, please accept democracy as I had to in 1975 - I was an organiser for the 'No' campaign at school. And don't come with that 'well we only voted for a free-trade common market' nonsense - we left a free-trade common market EFTA to join the European communities, whose founding treaty of Rome of 1957 makes clear the ultimate aim is political and monetary union. That's why I as a 12 year old schoolboy was a 'No' in the referendum - are you telling me that the grown adults of voting age 'didn't know what they were doing' and if they didn't know, didn't read the treaty to find out?? If that is true then such breathtaking stupidity is not something I would want to admit to in public!!
Here in Spain the EU is rightly seen as a fringe issue - you go along with what they want you to sign to keep the peace and be 'modern', then do what you like as the EU has no enforcement agencies. And if the EU wants to ban traditions like bull-fighting and fireworks, then people get up in arms - it's not all just 'anti-British' you know!
If the UK leave the EU it would be the single most disastrous decision any British government has ever taken and both parties know that so while it is a useful kicking post blamed when the UK wants to pass some dreadful law or rule, everyone knows that without EU membership the UK would sink rapidly into the second rank.
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Why would it be such a political "sin" if the English speaking world did not get itself together and work on problems as ONE as any other group would do. I believe this UNITED front would be a light unto the entire world and help us all through these crazy times. Think of the good things to come if WE worked as one using our common language and culture as a guide and safety to prosper.
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This legislation will protect European consumers from some very dangerous chemicals, as well as improving biodiversity in farmland.
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How you British love to moan and moan and moan! I really do not know why you bother to stay in the EC. You still have your pound sterling and closed borders, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pull out.
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