Sarkozy's Club Med
"Very nice dear, but what's it for?" After quite a few ups and downs the French president is, this weekend, proudly showing off his shiny new gadget - the Mediterranean Union.
Perhaps we shouldn't expect much from the first ever summit of a new organisation, but it is fair to ask what Mr Sarkozy expects from it. Peace in the Middle East? A half-way house for Turkey? A common approach to seaweed?
It's not exactly clear as the deep blue waters of the Med, although the president, recently described in a very amusing Irish Times article as "personally unpleasant but extremely energetic", has invested a lot of that energy and suppressed some of the unpleasantness to achieve this get-together.
The Romans knew the sea in the middle of their world as "Mare Nostrum" - Our Sea.
Sarkozy's grand vision of a Mediterranean Union is on one level an attempt to remind Europeans that it is not just "Our Sea". The Med, formed by the clash of European and African tectonic plates, has given its name to a climate, a diet and a temperament that largely stresses a common bond between the people of its northern shores - the French, Spanish, Italians and Greeks - rather than those of North Africa and the Middle East.
Perhaps at the back of Sarkozy's mind is a noble effort to stress the basin's common heritage. 
But, as so often with the president's grand projects, one is left wondering whether it is not so much a vision but a momentarily entertaining hallucination, dragged up from goodness knows what regions of the unconscious - a plan without a purpose, an idea, free-floating, unsupported by any specific strategy and undirected towards any particular goal.
The president first played with the theme during his election campaign, when he talked passionately but vaguely about the French role in Algeria, and said that France did not have to be ashamed of its past, as it did not invent the final solution.
Many thought the plan itself was merely a cynical ploy to offer Turkey something less than full European Union membership and rather more than a vague associate partnership.
But alarm bells went off in Berlin and Brussels. The Med was to be seen as "our sea", the EU's sea, not just the private property of those on its shores. Chancellor Angela Merkel does not want France to straddle and dominate two competing organisations. Although it would be fanciful to see the MU as in any way a rival to the EU, she wanted to make sure the stirrings of any such thought of presumed equality were strangled at birth. Britain kept quiet, but diplomats see the Baltic and further expansion to the east as more important than this distraction.
Mrs Merkel won. It was made quite clear that Mr Sarkozy's baby might, like Athena, have sprung fully-formed from his head, but she was to be adopted and tutored by the EU itself. The MU was not to be a separate organisation, but a part of the EU under the already existing framework of what's known as the "Barcelona Process".
Mr Sarkozy's original plan for this weekend was very grand indeed. A meeting of just the Med countries, EU and non-EU, to be followed by "the rest of the EU meets the Med" - all fly-pasts and flashing lights to the greater glory of France and her president. There will doubtless be a good deal of that, but the Germans made sure the EU was not decoupled from the MU.
The Med Union wasn't allowed to be a separate organisation that sought to exclude the countries without an olive oil diet or access to fragrant scrubland. Even the Belgians insisted, and they like to think of themselves as honorary Mediterraneans, on the grounds that they have more flair and better food than the Dutch and Germans next door.
Not that it is all sweetness and light from the southern powers. Libya's Colonel Gaddafi has condemned it as a new imperialism, and warns of the Maghreb becoming a colony of Brussels. The Israelis see it as a useful tool. The Algerians are coming along but are cold. Turkey is deeply suspicious.
There's no doubt there are real common projects that could be useful, such as sharing power from solar panels, problems of pollution and over-fishing, that may be given fresh impetus. But perhaps the real purpose is to demonstrate that Sarkozy is at heart a Gaullist, with a determination to show that France is leading Europe, and is still a big player in the world, with a perspective different from some Atlanticist consensus. The political skill would be to make it an unquestioned reality, rather that an exercise in national and personal vanity.
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i still belive Sarkozy is a disaster for France and Europe...
Never trust a Sarko !
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President Sarkozy is General DeGaulle resurrected!
Or maybe he is Augustus Caesar and just wants to recreate the 'European Union' within the borders of the Roman Empire as AD14 plus Germania and the countries beyond the Rhine and Danube!
This really takes the biscuit.
If the MU and the EU are created as separate organisations the two organisations would have to work as closely to gether as if they were one and, I'm sorry but that makes me even more depressed about where the EU is heading and how it is organised.
If Chancellor Merkel holds the control strings to restrain President Sarkozy, then we are heading for the EU exapanding into North Africa.
Either way, this is tantamount to Empire building and President Sarkozy's intention must be to have France as the centre of the is Empire with all roads leading to Paris.
The other European nations must stop this 'idea' from developing further!
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For me, the building of the EU was based on a dream: The unification of a continent and the creation of a European identity, similar to the building of the American identity. But of course, not every European agree, and there will always be someone saying "No" in EU-related referendums. And the more countries that have joined, the more likely it has become.
I think those former "west Europeans" who called for a rapid expansion of the EU, didn't realize that these new EU countries, not always shared the visions of the early members. It was a mistake. Their loyality turned out to be more with the US, who they believe liberated them. Their main focus the last 10 years has been on the re-building of nationalism, while some of the West's pre-expansion visionaires rather focused on dismantling it!
Looking back, I think those were right who called for a 2-speed Europe. I believe the EU cannot continue to pursue cross-continental unanimity as today. It will be unfortunate if the pursuit for consensus will force either the EU-friends or the EU-skeptics to accept agendas they do not really enjoy. It's not very democratic. Or if this pusuit results in watered-down compromises.
So the question is if Mr. Sarkozy's "Mediterranean Union" - as some predicts - is a way for Turkey to get at least half a membership in the EU, saving everyone's face. Or if it is an early step toward another kind of 2-speed Europe? I always thought the faster half a 2-speed EU would consist France, Germany and the Benelux. But who knows - the South Europeans have always been more positive to EU integration...
The unification of Europe was on schedule until the millennium shift and 9/11. Then, the magic spell lost its power. The dream of people like Delores and d'Estaing is likely to bloom again later on, because eveything moves in cycles. But at the same time it would tragic if one let the process come to a complete standstill because someone is saying "No".
- So perhaps, it's time to move towards a Europe with many different speeds, but with the same foundation - the EU which we have now. We could have a "Med Eunion", and perhaps we could also revive the legendary "Hansa Union" up here in the north? (Anyone interested?)
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It is certain that the wheels are going to fall off the socialist EU project - just as they did nuLabours socialist project.
The people of the UK need to ensure that we aren't so committed to the ridiculous organization, that it takes us down with it when it does go.
Leadership isn't about following the crowd, it is about knowing when the crowd are going the wrong way, and having the confidence, authority and charisma to lead your people away from the croud, in the right direction.
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Why stop at the Sahara?
Everything should be done to encourage Sarkozy's extension of the EU reach. (Especially as he'd like these grandiose ambitions to be funded by the prosperous 'northern' nations that don't have any link to the Med or beyond - and their concern is already being expressed by Merkel).
This arrogant over-reach will help accelerate the collapse of the already over-arching EU 'project'.
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Unfortunately, Gaddafi has a point. The funding for this will come from the EU, due to Merkel's protests all EU members will be eligible - but no such opportunity for all non-med African Union members. This is, at best, a very one sided partnership.
Seems to me more a case of Sarkozy's France wanting to prolong its influence of North Africa by redefining the terms.
The EU is not a vehicle for the glory of France any more than France is s vehicle for the glory of Sarkozy.
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Apparently,Sarkozy was elected by the French to tackle all the huge problems at home. How the people who voted for him must be thinking when they see him spending his time on this more important project. Persnal vanity first, civil service 2nd.
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Dream mr sorkozy dream, because only those who believe, always fail to see the reallity.. because you dont have children you can allow a mess in europe and make your imperial dream...
but NO, there will no be such a union, especially when the colonialists french sit at top of the table... we dont need such a union, you need our resources, we know it... but price will be so high that your EU wealth will go away.. and them we continue business with china,india...
sarko, africa doesnt need Europe any more, because of EU we are so poor,, look at china or russia, whenever west dont have a say those countries benefit, so dream on sarko and baroso, soon you will be only one in the union... uk is falling first.. labor is gone for good, and people are going crazy of how they have allowed a system to be infiltrated by incompetent politicans... your system has degenerated backward now on.
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People of the world, do not delude yourselves about uniting, unity, brotherhood, and things they make you believe,, the world is a jungle, and people just want your money, your resources, your life, and use it for their benefit.
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The Latin Arch (Spain-France-Italy, including maybe Portugal, Belgium, Lux and Greece) share the same linguistic and cultural background (except Greece). It's also a block tha feels very united inside a larger EU.
They also share same present worries over the Mare Nostrum, the main and longer EU border.
So I find a plausible idea Sarkozy's Club Med.
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Do we have a say in this Club, seeing as we have an Overseas Territory at the entrance to the Med, Gibraltar?
Or would that upset the Spanish, and put Sarko's nose out?
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I find it a bit unfair that Sarkozy is getting all the credit for this. I remember the Spanish president Zapatero a few months ago announcing this alongside him.
To me the Mediterranean Union sounds like a typical Zapatero idea: well-meaning, with noble intentions, but ultimately probably useless. Other less-developed countries want to be able to compete fairly on trade, not some forum of ideas filled with warm words like openness, solidarity and common heritage.
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To glenn_fleetwood, we in France aren't unhappy to see Sarkozy expending some his energy and wilder ideas further afield.
He has already achieved a large proportion of his election promises - and that has to be a novelty for any politician anywhere! However, he shares the same trait as many other leading politicians - he has the power to insist that his ideas, however wild, get a hearing - a try-out even.
He has never explained to the French quite what his vision is for a Mediterranean Union, never mind EU leaders. However, he has managed to persuade them and most North-African and Eastern-Med leaders to take the idea on board. NB the African Union is alse involved, at the N Africans' insistence - so it's all looking too complicated by far.
I don't know about "leaping fully-formed" from Sarkozy's head, Mark: this "baby" seems to be struggling for breath now.
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R 12,
Spain knows whatever good comes from Spanish, French will take it as theirs.
Spanish painters like Picasso, Dali or Goya are often described as "French".
So if Sarkozy introduces the Club Med as a French idea, nothing new under the sun.
Even the Italian Carla Bruni is now a French Madame.
France will always play the role of the Latin world mother or the elderly sister. Nothing to do about it.
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@10
That would be the southern half of Belgium. The upper half is of Germanic stock, and has spent the last 200 years fighting (with diplomacy) to counter the latins.
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I notice you named the countries bordering the North Mediteranean... did you forget all about THE Mediterranean nation of Malta and Gozo, which also happens to be a member of the E.U.?
Anyways, keep up the interesting blogs :)
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To frenchderek@13
I can't believe Sarkozy has sorted all the problems out at home! That's amazing! Are the French all happy with the immigration and unemployment problems then?
It seems to me that this MU is just another hair-brained scheme like the EU, and is run by politicians who can't even run their own countries well, never mind 26 others.
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What a ridiculous blog, and totally short-sighted responses.
North Africa is the area that is most of a threat to the EU, from the points of view of immigration, security and regional conflict spill-over (Israel, Iran, etc).
Ensuring joint interests are properly prioritized in a meaningful forum, and supporting shared trade and prosperity with North Africa, are top priorities for the Mediterranean countries of the EU.
You don't have to be a long-sighted Sarkozy to see that, any person with minimal knowledge of international interests knows this is tactically and strategically a high priority effort. Much more so than stabilizing the Balkans for example.
Only fanciful dreamers of European purity have their eye off this ball.
Finally, while the Western Mediterranean has major disconnects, the Eastern Mediterranean shares far closer histories and common cultural ties. Greeks, Syrians, Cypriots, Lebanese, Egyptians and Italians have a shared history and that is why in some fundamental ways they are culturally closer to each other than they are to Denmark or Latvia, despite the religious divide.
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The Mediterranean Union will become reality just like the EU is today. You fools! You lack vision of the Future and knowledge of the history of the Roman Empire and Europe in general.
The good thing is that this blog can be as Eurosceptic as it wants, it won't change anything really. The 4 UK countries will be regard just as provinces of the EU in a few years.
Euro Centurion
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Hans_Starlife @ 3
(with a cross reference #10 and #15)
".. the South Europeans have always been more positive to EU integration ..."
Would that be because, in very general terms, the Latin/Mediterranean countries don't have the industial wealth of the Germanic nations to the north?
If so it would explain why the countries with less GDP would generally be in favour of close union be it in an EU or an MU. Whereas the taxpayers in countries with higher GDP tend to be a bit more wary of too much socialistic/idealistic redistribution of wealth!
Sometimes sharing wealth with the poor relations is merely pouring money down a drain - but they will love being relatives!
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To #15 BernardVC,
Quite so, the battle is raging even now in the Belgian state, as the Nothern Flemish seem implacable in their quest for regional Flemish purity. If Belgium splits in two or three, and Wallon is part of the 'club Med', I'm wondering if the club of Northern and Scandanavian countries will want the Flemish part of Belgium as it is led by right wing Nationalistic fanatics to a large degree.
Maybe a 'club Atlantic' might be a good idea if composed of UK, Ireland, Germany, Holland, Scandinavia, Poland, Czech etc. I'm beginning to like the idea of the current EU splitting in half, France is welcome to North Africa and it's incessant corruption, and we can let them self destruct whilst we create a true common market with open borders.
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I do not think he has any ability to handle the realtionship over international affair. at least from China's case and France protest case
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The rest of the EU memebr states should just let Sarkozy f cough to the MU without Italy Greece and Spain therby leave them isolated,
Sarkozy has to do this as most of his voters are turks and algerians these days
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R 15
You're right. The Latin Arch takes only Wallonia and Brussels. Flandes and its Vlaams Belang cannot participate in the Club Med.
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The EU already has two outposts on the Southern shores of the Med: Ceuta and Melilla, which are both Spanish enclaves surrounded by Morocco. And before anyone says it: No - hanging on to the Southern Pillar of Hercules doesn't make the Spanish any less keen on having the Northern one, too.
Having visited both several times over the past 30 years, most recently last year en route to and from the Sahara, they emphasize the vast gulf of civilisation between Europe and the North African Islamic states. The border between them is reminscent of cold war borders and not unlike Israel's land borders because the societal boundaries are almost as great.
Perhaps Sarkozy is serious, but this is much more likely a mild effort to sidetrack the embarrassment the French government feels over Lisbon (probably) not being ratified on its watch and provide a new arena for Sarkozy to strut his stuff. And remember the French already have contacts with many of this lot through "La Francophonie".
Drive into Croatia (I did in 2006) and it's only because you're leaving the Schengen area that you notice any difference from Slovenia. It's not yet quite the same in the other Balkans, but even Bosnia is a pretty normal place to a European these days whilst Serbia is only slightly odd as a relic of past stupidities on both sides over Kosovo.
It would surely be more rewarding to concentrate on the Balkans first and give Greece a land boundary with the rest of the EU. Fewer heartaches too, I think as they are much more fertile places to nurture democracy than is the Islamic world just yet.
Turkey next, perhaps, if the Islamists don't triumph, but North Africa will only provide a bit of post-colonial warm glow for Sarkozy and a few beaches for Mrs S.
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All very interesting.
Remember the strategic importance of the Med. It is key to controlling trade from Africa Middle East and Europe. And he who controls the spice, controls the Universe.
The South African Union would be easier for the Elites to control sub-Saharan Africa, while the MU could restrain dissenting voices from the North African nations who would be enjoying trade privileges with other Med. countries which would distract them further.
But then an African Union as a hole (by which I mean a functioning and equitable one) would not protect the elite interest, whereas an Africa divided in two could and most certainly would be more manageable.
Now Israel would like to be part of a Med. Union as they enjoy great support from France and would like closer economic ties to Egypt ; and of course the mediation aspect of being part of a large intergovernmental organisation (sort of like Eurovision but with teeth...)
That would leave Russia and a China led Asian Union v presumably a US backed Australia/ Malaysian Union.
As we all now know the NAU North American Union is here at least on paper.
Lots to think about. Don't pretend the MU is a new idea, because it is not.
With war brewing in Georgia and potentially a wider Middle East conflict, things could get interesting: possibly change completely...
It may be time to stop gambling on the stock exchange and actually start living in the real world.
Its never too late to choose love.
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Mark Mardell highlights an important distinction in the political cultures of the Continent and the English-speaking world, i.e. between process and policy outcome. The Continental mind believes in process and that institutions are necessary to sustain a flagging process.
There can be a legitimate case for establishing international institutions to achieve a desired policy outcome, but (i) the objective should be desired and achievable and (ii) institutional form is only required if the desired policy outcome (e.g. perpetual peace, free-trade) requires a policing function such as is provided by the UN Security Council or the WTO Court.
Even if these conditions are met, we should prefer ad-hoc coalitions of the willing to institutions that exhibit a marked tendency to live on beyond the lifetime of their objectives. Any international institution set up should be periodically reviewed and either shut down or have their objectives modified to ensure it remains desirable and achievable. The IMF for example was established to police a fixed exchange rate mechanism that collapsed in 1971, but the institution still lives on. The EU to achieve an "ever closer union" for which there is no longer any popular support. Such institutions are the cholesterol choking our political systems and we should think very hard before creating their like again.
All too often Europeans seem to regard the establishment of a process as a success even if no policy outcome is ever achieved. This Mediterranean Union does not even have a clear objective to start with, being designed only to cover-up the failure of the 15-year old "Barcelona process". Once again we see the Continental reflex is to institutionalise a process that is failing for the want of a desirable and achievable policy outcome as if the failure were due to a lack of persistence.
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Brownedov @25
Good observations.
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''But, as so often with the president's grand projects, one is left wondering whether it is not so much a vision but a momentarily entertaining hallucination, dragged up from goodness knows what regions of the unconscious - a plan without a purpose, an idea, free-floating, unsupported by any specific strategy and undirected towards any particular goal.''
I think the goal of the MU is to extend the power of the EU into Northern Africa and the Near East. The MU could be an useful instrument to control the trade and natural resources (oil, gas and uranium) of these parts of the world. Another possible goal would be to create more welfare for the Arab and Berber people to combat illegal immigration to the EU. In other words: the MU is just a part of the EU foreign policy.
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To glenn_fleetwood ¤17: I didn't say Sarkozy has fixed ALL the problems of France - he's made huge inroads but it will take at least to the end of his term of office (2012) to see the results. Equally, I didn't say the French are happy with what he's doing. They know it's necessary but they'd prefer to have the results without the pain. Was anybody happy with Mrs Thatcher's changes at the time? Not amongst those I lived and worked with. But after it had settled in ....
As far as the importance of the N African states to the EU (honestywithoutmercy ¤18) is concerned, I agree. However, what's on offer is viewed by more than just Gaddafi (Libya) as a "bone" thrown from the EU table (shades of ancient colonialism). Getting the EU involved so soon has probably killed what might have been - which was? Somebody enlighten me.
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To frenchderek @30
Ask the mining industry community if they are happy with thatcher's 'reforms', not then,at the time, but now, nearly 30 years on - ask them if what she did was good for their communities, while you're there, ask the rest of britain if they are happy with the poll tax, not just then but the modern form of it (council tax).
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We could have a "Med Eunion", and perhaps we could also revive the legendary "Hansa Union" up here in the north? (Anyone interested?)
[#3]
Some might, particularly if it included not only Danzig (today: Gdansk) but also Koenigsberg (today: Kaliningrad).
There's only a small problem of implementation. ;-)
P.S. If anybody can call the Med today Mare Nostrum, it's the 6th Fleet: it owns it.
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DutchNemo @ 29
"... I think the goal of the MU is to extend the power of the EU into Northern Africa and the Near East. ..."
Where does this surreptitious extension of power of the EU lead AFTER we have absorbed the north African countries into the Greater European Union?
Does the EU expand it power into the Middle East and absorb Lebanon, Israel, Syria, Jordan and maybe Iraq and Iran into the EU organisation?
Where does it end?
Surely the African Union is the organisation that Morrocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Libya and Egypt should be involved with?
Who on earth gives the EU the right to decide this Foreign Policy of "expansion of power of the EU" into the African Continent?
This is very Espansionist path being suggested here but I see no value for the contributing Nations funding the EU to "create more welfare for the Arab and Berber people" on the other side of the Mediterranean (and another Continent) when some of the newest EU member states and state-in-waiting in East Europe are in need of welfare, social and economic funding to bring them up to the standards enjoyed by the West European nations.
This smacks of Empire Building. And I don't like the sound of it!
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Menedemus,
''Who on earth gives the EU the right to decide this Foreign Policy of "expansion of power of the EU" into the African Continent?''
The EU hasn't any right to extend its power into the African Continent but getting closer with Northern Africa and the Near East will decrease our dependence on Russia for oil and gas. In other words: why does the EU expands its power into Africa and the Near East? Answer: money.
''This is very Espansionist path being suggested here but I see no value for the contributing Nations funding the EU to "create more welfare for the Arab and Berber people" on the other side of the Mediterranean (and another Continent) when some of the newest EU member states and state-in-waiting in East Europe are in need of welfare, social and economic funding to bring them up to the standards enjoyed by the West European nations.''
I don't expect the EU will donate money to Northern Africa and the Near East but they will offer free trade agreements in the hope to create more welfare in these parts of the world. More welfare in Northern Africa and the Near East=less illegal immagration to the EU, that's at least what our politicians hope on.
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I think this is France's Plan "B." France wants to rule an empire. The EU was such an ambition. It has failed to meet France's expectations and it is now obvious that it wont. This MU is another stab at it. Why does France want and expect to rule an empire? Because the French feel that they are better than everyone else and should instruct them through gentle but firm force how to achieve the Eden France has achieved for itself.
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Sarkozy is France's answer to Blair. He takes the media managed baton.
Blair France, flying us all the way to infinity and beyond. Fasten your seat belts.
No wonder Brown was floundering al over the deck trying to impress...
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I have just never ever wanted to be represented by the president of France, any president of France. I am confident that the British people would agree with me on this. I particularly do not want to be represented by this president of France - arrogant, dictatorial etc. Napoleon IV?
Sarkozy has said there is something wrong in the "EU". There is indeed . Something that gives Sarkozy more power is very wrong.
The "EU" is rubbish now. There is no indication that it will improve after Lisbon. The arrogant, dictatorial people who run the "EU" will not be wanting to diminish their power.
Sarkozy said that there would be no renegotiation of Lisbon. Does he think we are all his property?
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I think a Mediteranean Union is an excellent idea ; so long as it stands alone and is not directly linked to or financed by the EU .
The countries of northern europe could form a separate union , more loosely linked and without the central present EU commission domination .
The southern european countries are where most of the corruption is a part of normal life ; making " There Playing Field Level ".
One realises , that unless the mediteranean union is financed by the more prosperous northern europe , it is a non starter anyway .
I think we are starting to see the beginning of the eventual break up of the EU . I hope so !!!
Mr . Sarkozy needs to watch his step , shut his mouth . Any pressure put upon Ireland to hold a second referendum , could make the Irish people turn sour and give an Even Bigger NO to the Lisbon Treaty .
Further the EU is not so popular among the ordinary people of most Sovereign member states ; pressure put on Ireland could backfire and have other states , namely Poland and The Czech Republic refuse to sign .
The enlargement of the EU is its undoing ; further enlargement to include Turkey will cause its break up , sooner rather than later .
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The Romans also used that term because they were the first power to rule the Mediterranean (Middle Earth) completely--and have been the only power to do so since.
The Mediterranean Union would be difficult even without EU 'jealousy.' Israel would be picked on by the Muslim countries (and European ones to some extent), while the Europeans would be bound to be somewhat paternalistic toward the others (with some right, as they would probably be the countries footing most of the bills), and the Arab countries would be resentful of the 'snooty Europeans' looking down on them.
Rather than the EU, ASEAN--the Association of Southeast Asian Nations--would be a more apt analogy. They too are divided over culture, religion, history, government, and economic development. And if the status of ASEAN is what's in store for the Mediterranean Union, then Sarkozy should just pull the plug now.
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SuffolkBoy2
From a distance, Britain and France look to to me to be mirror images of each other. The French probably felt the same way about Britain when Blair was President. But you didn't hear much about it from them at the time because they were to preoccupied with bashing America.
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MarcusAureliusII @ 40
Regards your last sentence. "At the time" seems to indicate it was a passing phase for the French to be preoccupied with bashing America!
I seem to have the impression that this phase started in 1944, got worse during the Zuez Crisis and has not abated ever since?
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Menedemus;
I think you are not quite right. American bashing by the french started right after the American Revolution and by 1798, the US and France were on the verge of war. Look up the Alien and Sedition acts passed by Congress that year on Wikipedia and why they were passed. One is still on the books.
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MarcusAureliusII @ 42
Thanks for setting me straight.
I was only going from firsthand impression gained through my lifetime of people watching.
And thank you for the background information. It makes interesting reading.
I particularly noted the Compact Theory, which states that the United States are made up of a voluntary union of States that agree to cede some of their authority in order to join the union, but that the states do not, ultimately, surrender their sovereign rights.
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france wants Med Union, Germany wants its union, UK wants its union, etc etc...
Is this the way of pushing the way for a neo-colonialism..by dividing which EU countries control which african countries or other irelevant european countries? Is it a new old way of re-making the lost missused wealth accumulated by our colonial parents?
EU doesnt have natural resources, or is unwilling to destroy and exploit its environment, and if they loose also their competitive advantages like the wealth economy and technology, they are finished as a union.
EU is unsustainable, and it was build on exploitation of generation after generation of human lives and their livelihood and resources. What can you do to a rotten apple from inside?
For Africa there is no benefit in a FREE TRADE with EU.. because EU needs it? Africa today have a competitive advantage and a competitive momentum, which must use and raise TAXES for all exports, revert all illigal contract wich are exploiting it and charge them more, so nothing goes for cheap out of africa.
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One could argue that Sarkozy is not very clever in hiding his intentions on Turkey, unlike other EU politicians who give false hopes to Turkey. But the end-result is good for the Turkish people.
At least we know EU has no intention of letting us in, but it is a carrot for getting further concessions fro Turkey.
Meanwhile, we have to endure the EU-backed government of Erdogan. With the arrests of prominent journalists, retired and old soldiers, academics. As Turkish citizens, we will remember that this is an EU-sponsored suppression of our basic rights.
Considering all this, Sarkozy (and Merkel for that matter) is good for the Turkish people.
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To #31 glenn_fleetwood,
You said "Ask the mining industry community if they are happy with thatcher's 'reforms', not then,at the time, but now, nearly 30 years on - ask them if what she did was good for their communities, while you're there, ask the rest of britain if they are happy with the poll tax, not just then but the modern form of it (council tax)."
In the first point you forgot to mention King Scargill's part in that, his arrogant dictatorial attitude reminds me very much of the current EU leadership, who are also content to reduce the people to poverty and serfdom in pursuit of their own ego.
As for poll tax and council tax, these are very much like the systems that work on the continent quite successfully. In Belgium everyone has to make a tax declaration, and the local tax (poll or council) is a percentage (8%) of the amount of tax you needed to pay for the year. Very fair don't you agree, as if you have nothing you pay nothing and vice versa. Where the UK went wrong is to allow the councils to use these schemes as a cash cow with no central restrictions. Since then wonderful Nu-Labour has removed a lot of central funding and increased costs by implementing obtrusive target led regulations, result, the council tax is now almost a second mortgage for most people.
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batur_kemal @ #45
You are probably correct that the Politicians are giving Turkey false hopes.
It is my fervent wish that the EU politicians stops offering Turkey membership hopes altogether.
Turkey is not part of the European Continent anymore than Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Israel or Lebanon.
Giving Turkey false hopes is not a good idea but giving Turkey membership of the European Union would be a disaster.
As it is, Turkey is still illegally occupying Northen Cyprus and it cannot ever hope to be given membership of the EU whilst it is occupying the territory of an existing EU member state.
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Menedemus @47:
I can't see why Cyprus is even a member of the EU - it's south east of Istanbul....
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What's the MU about? As a French friend has explained to me: it's oil, stupid!
The plans for a MU were set out in Barcelona, in 1995, but there's been no action since. Sarkozy was hoping to get ahead of the EU (French oil interests first, you understand). Now that the EU is involved, if it gets anywhere it's going to be messy.
There is already talk of the need for a joint Secretariat, with a HQ base; possibly even a presidency! And, of course, rules and regulations - why not a Treaty?
My friend claimed one could make claims for seeking to promote peace and cooperation, in place of the current sabre-rattling and mistrust. Also, if EU countries were to cooperate and encourage starter funding (there are some not-very-poor countries on the southern and eastern shores of the Med), then poorer MU countries could be developed. Thus, the flow of immigrants into Europe might cease.
NB he wasn't making this claim, nor trying to convince me. Maybe he saw the look in my eye?. Or maybe he's read, as I have, how NAFTA has so miserably failed Mexico?
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ScepticMax @ 48
I quite agree.
If the "European Union" is something other than "European" or becomes so - then it will no longer be the European Union!
Certainly the Bosporus would seem to be the limit of what can be called Europe and the fact that provinces of Edirne, Kirklareli, Tekirdag, and the western part of Istanbul Province fall to the west of the Bosporus does not make the State of Turkey a European nation!
I'm not sure at what tipping point the EU becomes more than European but I feel that that the 'enforced secular nature' of Turkey is something that cannot last forever and by inviting Turkey into joining the EU is inviting future problems for the existing member states.
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I suppose it is only natural that so many of teh 50 comments before mine talk so much about the EU.
The point here is the possibilities that might arise in a Med Rim - however the Germans position that to the EU.
Sarkozy is not attractive to British people, and we are right to question his motives, but if the Med Rim come together and talk, then there is the opportunity to circumnavigate the walls of national sovereignty that prevent common sense on energy, pollution, migration, economic cooperation, the environment etc etc etc.
Bon Chance Sarko - a lot of us common folk are right behind you Sunshine.
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This is going to be bad news...
It will bring in another level of consults [politicians] into the already overburden system.
We have already have to list [not all from my memory]:
1]United Nations
2]NATO
3]European Union
4]Arab League
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So it's reported that there is a tentative plan by Barack Obama to speak at Berlin's historic Brandenburg Gate which is symbolic of German reunification.
Firstly if the Germans permit such an obvious shallow publicity stunt they need their heads examined, either that or they hope to get some clandestine favours if the US is foolish enough to elect him.
Secondly, I wonder why reunification is interesting to him, is it because of the new found love for his former enemy Hilary Clinton.
It seems that this guy even puts our politicians to the shade when it comes to ensuring his snout will be in the public trough.
Good luck MarcusAuriousII, I guess it may soon be time to count your chickens and run to the hills.
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raygravfan @52
I quote you: "... there is the opportunity to circumnavigate the walls of national sovereignty that prevent common sense on energy, pollution, migration, economic cooperation, the environment etc etc etc."
Idealistic and romantic in nature, your view is exactly the same as those who have had idealist intentions with the EUsince at least the 1990s.
Very lightly, you wish to "circumnavigate the walls of national sovereignty" on the thesis that somehow national sovereignty is a block to all the things you idealise, lacks common sense and should be something easily dismissed .
In truth, the various sovereign states so easily dismissed by you for the EU and potential creation of the MU have taken centuries to develop and are what people want and feel content with.
To create an artificial union that seizes power from sovereign states as if they do not matter is to deny the nature of people to want to band together in groups of manageable size. To dismiss this so lightly is to dismiss human nature and I would dispute that "a lot of us common folk" are behind President Sarkozy foray into creating an "MU"!
There is nothing to stop sovereign states working together for the common good but to artifically create "European Citizenship" or " Mediterranean Union Citizenship" is being now recognised as artificial and naturally unacceptable to people who simply want to live together in peace and harmony in societies into which they belong by birthright and not by imposition.
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Post 31. glenn_fleetwood wrote:
To frenchderek @30
"...ask the rest of britain if they are happy with the poll tax, not just then but the modern form of it (council tax)..."
Was that a joke ? The Council Tax was a return to the rating system which the Poll Tax abandoned.
The Poll Tax was a lot fairer but unfortunately it involved all those consuming the services in paying for them. Many had never paid this tax before and that's where the trouble started - that and the North, where house prices and thus ratings had been much lower. Not any more.
The MU is an expression of french imperial dreams as the EU was before it, I agree with that american roman emperor on that.
The french have not yet learned that the others in these cobbled-together outfits have views as well - like Gaddafi who is right and Mubarak who will want a leader's role.
I remember reading that the Middle East balanced around relations between Egypt, Syria and Iraq. Iraq has probably been replaced in that by Iran.
Interesting that Sarkozy is chumming up with Syria and Egypt while going along with sanctions on Iran and more important, Total have pulled out of Iran.
If I were Bashar Assad, I'd get on the next plane to Tehran to see what he can get from Iran that he doesn't already have. He's nicely in the middle.
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Um, the BBC reports today that "Leaders of EU and Mediterranean rim countries are gathering in Paris to launch a Union for the Mediterranean.
French President Nicolas Sarkozy is hosting leaders from 42 nations, to discuss issues including regional unrest, immigration and pollution.
France says the new union could send a "wind of hope" through the region."
Lets hope that he and Germany (who also want to be included it seems) announce their immediate withdrawal from the EU in order to build a fast stream (joke) Mediterranean rim, whilst leaving us in the North to get on with actually building a decent future for our populations. It's just a shame that Sarko will never have the nerve to do that as France would lose it's cash cow.
To chill0 #55, quite so, the poll tax is exactly what we have in Belgium and it works very well. I always harboured the belief that the left in the UK opposed it mainly because it works on people being registered to vote. If you are fiddling the election process by being registered in several places then the poll tax made that very expensive. Somewhat similar to their persistent opposition to identity cards which help to combat election fraud amongst other things.
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One of the problems Mr Sarkozy faced was the Irish ?No?. His grand plans for the MU were in place for his presidency of the EU before the vote of the Irish was known. So it is not surprising that the MU idea seems a whitewash of EU problems.
But if one distances oneself for a moment and looks from the point of an optimist one must feel that while people talk rather then fight there is always hope. To have hope is a small sin if it results in a way out of some perennial problems that plagued the area.
We may all have views and preferred wishful thoughts but at the moment it is not possible to foresee whether the idea of MU will catch on or not. It may prove to be successful and certainly there are so many common problems that if it succeeds in alleviating some of them it will be a success.
I can see at least two areas in which creation of such a union may benefit everybody north of the ?mare nostrum?.
One is the fight of pollution and global warming. It is inconceivable to think that the Mediterranean Sea can be cleaned up and kept clean by the current members of the EU alone.
The other is the clandestine immigration from Africa which will only increase if not tackled in some way. Those who believe that improving the conditions in the countries from which people emigrate is the right way to tackle may just be right this time. The aging Europe needs young labour force and Africa needs work to cope with ever increasing population. Controlled immigration that would benefit both sides is the way forward. For example why not give chance to European pensioners to settle in the warmer climate of the North Africa where life is warmer, cheaper and sunnier and ?import? the labour force in equal numbers.
Even if more sceptical view is taken and if only a motorway round the Med or land link with Africa are constructed as a result of this new union; or if ties between Israel and some Arab countries become stronger it will be sufficient to call it a success.
I would not write it off just as yet.
I am typing this BBC is reporting on substantial reduction in SMS costs across Europe as a direct result of the EU Commission intervention. So who says Europe is not working?!
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Agora9,
what the hell are you talking??
SMS, european commission, is this all EU can do?? reduce sms costs.. haha.. just pass a law... haha
by the way, why they dont try to reduce costs of OIL, FOOD, and reduce inflation??
and about the projects of EU in africa and middle east, is just a big bubble for the people to accept EU invasion of their countries, re-colonization..
what EU is interested is not what you say... but it is energy (solar) and natural resources, and stoping especially Russia (Gazprom) as well as China and India making their way in Africa.
EU leaders are unelected corrupt and elite, and they can just talk, but no action, they cannot afford any war because people are not happy about them, they will fail, and fail and fail, so they cannot protect their interests in the world.
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I totally agree with kubikubi. Sarkozy is big disaster for everybody.
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I think it;s a great idea. My (sort of) girlfriend is from Barcelona and we met in Syria and have since travelled to Israel/Palestine. She has also been to Morocco - she insists that there is a singular Mediterranean feel that all of these countries as well as those on the northern shores have in common.
The energy situation alone, in which North Africa may supply much of the Europe's energy, makes some kind of umbrella org a good idea, with the aim not least of ensuring security for our electricity supply. The Med as an ecosystem needs to be treated as a whole from an environmental point of view.
Finally politically, it;s useful in these times where Muslims are often seen as an 'other' that it is ok to denigrate, to look at what we have in common and to show that big group identities - Europeans/Arabs - are not as easily defined or distinct from one another as we might think.
It might even play a minor role in helping Israel/Palestine sort themselves out. Israel would have to sit down at a table with Pal/Egypt/Libya/Algeria/Morocco/Turkey and get to know them better.
So irrespective of what Sarkozy personally wants from Club Med, the idea is a good one.
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Each of those countries beyond the med has specific historical relations to Europe, more than to the rest of Africa. Perhaps Egypt has a little bit stronger ties.
Especially at its extremes, east and west, we have very interesting neighbors, Morocco and Turkey, both with rather liberal, multicultural societies which have a special affinity to Europe. Israel is a democratic society which, apart from its difficulties with arabic palestinians, would seamlessly fit into the EU.
I think, fundamentally, there's nothing wrong keeping our eyes open to new opportunities, if we find enough common goals to follow. The EU easily allowed Sarko to jump on this pedestal due to its negligence of a development which has been treated only as a threat until now.
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