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Kosovo's giant mosh pit

Mark Mardell | 00:31 UK time, Monday, 18 February 2008

Mother Teresa Street in central Pristina has turned into a giant mosh pit.
fireworks in Pristina, Kosovo
The crowd surges one way and then twists back the other and, for a while, you have to give up all hope of independent movement. From time to time people will clear a small circular space for a spot of traditional dancing to the sinuous local pop music, as the crowd flows either side of them.

It's one way of keeping warm in the freezing weather.

It’s the second night of partying here, although tonight there are are more families and children. Maybe it’s the fireworks that are pulling in the crowds although I wouldn’t take my kids near: it’s pretty but not particularly safe.

People are lighting rockets, with cigarettes, in the middle of the crowd. Bangers litter the streets and you just have to watch your step, and indeed your ears.

As the night goes on the music policy changes and hip-hop blasts out from nearby the high golden letters spelling out (in English) “Newborn”.
Partying around the Newborn monument
The crowd is nowhere near so dense here and people are bursting into spontaneous little dances. Of course while it is all rather light-hearted here, not everyone loves the newborn country. In Mitrovica and Belgrade there has been trouble, although buildings, not people, have so far been the targets.

Happiest day

It seems every second person I talk to says it is the happiest day of their life. I was in Montenegro for their independence celebrations and they were similarly wild but there wasn’t the sheer sense of relief and joy.

In Montenegro, the feeling was that they were glad to be shot of a problematic brother, here it's an enemy they are discarding. One local newspaper's front page this morning was a picture of Milosevic, Tito and Pasic with the headline underneath a single fruity Anglo-Saxon word followed by YU (punning on you, and Yugoslavia).
A sign in Pristina saying Kosova is born
A colleague from here says happily “I have a state: I am no longer triple X”. That apparently was his designation in a British visa when travelling on a UN-issued passport.

People everywhere are wearing T-shirts proclaiming “Now I have a state”. But my friend raises a question. When he gets his new passport, what if he travels to a country like France that will recognise Kosovo and then goes on within Schengen, the EU’s borderless area, to Spain, that doesn’t? Is he allowed to do that?

While the crowd partied, Kosovo’s parliament met to sign the declaration and approve some new laws to make it possible.

They have tied themselves very closely to what the West, the EU and the US want, including praise for Nato and a commitment to eventual membership of the European Union. It's obvious that this is where Kosovo is heading, but is this appropriate stuff for a declaration of independence?

I haven’t spoken to any Serbs today, so this is necessarily one-sided. But tomorrow demonstrations are planned in various Serbian towns within Kosovo, so I hope to listen to the other point of view then.

Comments   Post your comment

  • 1.
  • At 01:42 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Nives wrote:

I don't understand all this.
It's been good 8 years since Milosevic is gone and new democratic governement in Serbia established, so why Kosovars don't want to live with Serbians? Nothing bad happened to them last 7 years so why still want to go alone and take someone elses land?
Who was born there and who came accross the border escaping from Albania's poverty and to feel safe and sound?
Why they have big families with 10 kids?
Why Kosovars didn't want to go to Serbian schools?

  • 2.
  • At 02:23 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Szilvester wrote:

I do not know whether to laugh or cry. Having worked in both Bosnia and Kosovo first hand on the ground for 5 years assisting the health and economic reconstruction of these countries, I have many Serb and Kosovar Albanian friends and can see all the arguments. Irrespective of national divides, the Serbs and Kosovans want to have the possibility of conducting normal lives and do not want politics. Let's hope this is the final chapter of the unsavoury recent book on Balkan politics.

  • 3.
  • At 03:03 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • DY wrote:

Pandora's box has been opened. Enter the new cold war, and very soon WWIII.
America and the european servants have now officialy occupied the land of Serbian Christian churches and monasteries, same way Hitler and Mussolinini did 60 years ago.
Entire planet hates the policies of so called "democratic west". The only place where you have the support is in cocaine factory of Europe, Kosovo.Think about it....
There will never ever be a cocain state, backed by the western military force in the land of Serbian churches and monasteries.
USA will withdraw eventually, and then Serbs will be back, sooner or later.......

  • 4.
  • At 04:33 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • joseph wrote:


I will try to leave a comment, but it seams impossible to get through.
Well done West. Creating big Albania will certainly help to bring peace to Europe. Ignoring the international law.
Who cares. Might is right. Anti Serb propaganda and anti Serb racism is well and alive in USA and EU.

  • 5.
  • At 06:00 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Jude Kirkham wrote:

It's nice that the Albanians are so happy, but one really has to wonder just how viable Kosovo would be as a country. At times like this it seems there should be some sort of third option between being attached to one's oppressors and turning into another aid-dependant Bantustan.

  • 6.
  • At 06:46 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Xhevdet Hoti wrote:

Kosova's independence is something that Albanians faught for it with their arsenal and diplomatic means for the last four decades. It makes sense why people are relieved, they were on a limbo but that changed today.As of today, they have a flag, a state and an identity. They are Kosovars that belong to the Republic of Kosova.

  • 7.
  • At 07:21 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • alex stone wrote:

A sad day for the reality of life in the region, and a further nail in the coffin of the structure of international law. It astonishes me that the EU has capitulated so easily to US demands for protection of their oil pipeline running through Kosovo, and the silence at the building of the largest US military base in Europe to protect that pipeline. This isn't about Serbian nationalism, or a perceived 'compassion' for a people who have, frankly, bred their way into a majority in Kosovo, and played the victim card at every opportunity. This is about protecting oil resource, plain and simple. We have seen more reports about Albanian people traffickers and drug cartels, than any other national group, or nation, and yet, according to the US, and their European 'friends' , all is forgiven for the sake of oil supply. It's disgraceful.

Russia, Serbia, and other nations in the region have every right to be worried and concerned about this declaration, and once again, the balkan region has the potential to explode into something far worse. Have EU politicans learnt nothing from history?
I don't expect it from US governments, because they have, bluntly, trodden on or ignored every international treaty if it doesn't suit their purposes, or potential for profit.
But Europe should know better.
People in Greece, Macedonia, and other countries adjacent to Albania and Kosovo must be wondering what's going to happen next. Will the US and UK tell them they have to give up part of their countries, in order to appease Albaninan criminals, US oil interests, and corrupt politicans?

A sad and worrying day for many, not just Serbia, and neighbours.
This is not a real independence, i will never recognise it, and i would hope that, unlike reporting about Russia, the BBC finally grows some objectivity, and sees this declaration for what it is. A US and UK government deceit, for profit.

And for those who keep going on about Serb nationalism, and the brutality of the 90's, i would remind you that Milosovic gained power as a direct result of the terror spread by Albanian thugs and murder gangs in the Kosovan province of Serbia, and the pressure by the public in Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia, Greece, and Macedonia to deal with the mass killings of non Albanians, by those with the intent of creating a 'Greater Albania.'
Some objective reflection, and a little historical research would reveal this as fact, not speculation, and not to be dismissed as 'serbian propoganda' by those in Albania and beyond.

It's also laughable that albanian kosovans are attempting to enthuse about the implementation of 'law' in the province, as if they are yearning for it. It's the last thing most albanians in the region want, as so many of them are making too much money from criminal activities.
More victim propoganda.
Over 40% of Albanians are unemployed, and plan to keep it that way. Now they'll get their wish, as the US have protected their pipeline, and expect Europeans to pick up the tab for what will be the world's largest welfare state. Europeans will be paying for Kosovo, and through that region, Albania for generations to come.

A sad day for international law, and the principles of democracy, so often publicly and arrogantly touted by US and UK politicans as their guiding principle.

The hypocrisy is breathtaking.

I'm ashamed to be British, and would hope that Russians will accept me as a democratic refugee trying to escape this profit driven madness.

  • 8.
  • At 07:55 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Mike Dixon wrote:

Your friend from Kosovo will have no more problem crossing from France to Spain then any one elso. In Fact, if he some form of identity document such as a passport, can make himself understood and can do some usefull job, he will can get authorization to do that woork very easily. Spain really needs workers while France appears not to.

  • 9.
  • At 08:34 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Szymon wrote:

The international community may have different views on the unilateral manner in which independence was declared but ultimately - this is how many countries were born.

And another comment: I don't quite understand the Serbs who complain about losing their 'historical birthplace'. After all - would any Serb dare nowadays to settle in a land almost purely ethnically Albanian? I don't think so. So let's get over it.

Borders change throughout history, nothing stays forever.

  • 10.
  • At 08:38 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Mirek Kondracki wrote:

"Tripple X designation in a British visa"?

What does that mean?

"Plenty of sex, you're not British"?

[I've watched some XXX movies in my life; some of them were British; none of them was made in Kosovo]

  • 11.
  • At 08:44 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Kosova wrote:

FREE SCOTLAND!
FREE NORTH IRELAND!

  • 12.
  • At 09:02 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Fatmir loshi wrote:

about the FLAG for those who may not know?!!!
every mp and parlament have the right to choose their own flag even change it every few years if they wish to do so,they just have to have it aproved by majority votes.
for now as we know we are being supervised from EU.we dont mind any piece of cloth as a flag,soon Kosova will join EU and we will share their flag,for the RED AND BLACK WITH DOUBLE HEADED EAGLE will always be in our heart!!!
I want to extend my best wishes for HARADINAJ FAMILY whom made it posible that we enjoy freedom today!
Fatmir Loshi Carrabreg decan

  • 13.
  • At 10:07 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Shaun Harvey wrote:

How long until the Muslim areas of Britain start wanting "Independence"? Are the Irish not now entirely justified to ask for Northern Ireland back? Have the SNP not been given yet another gift by the Labour government? I beg Gordon Brown to oppose Kosovon independence as it is simply going to undermine European boundries everywhere. Soon the EU will resemble the Holy Roman Empire: Tiny duchies and petty states all controlled by one centralised authority as an unwieldy mass unfit to carry out anything without there being political strife.

  • 14.
  • At 10:16 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Justin wrote:

This is a great day for Europe. Kosovo's independence is long overdue. They should have declared independence in 1999 after that serial killer Slobodan Milosevic was defeated. I am happy for the many Kosovan people who have waited so long for this moment. It's a shame Russia is exploiting the situation in Kosovo to try and cause a rift in Georgia but I am still happy for the people of Kosovo and am sure that in the future they will prosper in the smae way that other countries who have suffered from catastrophies (like Armenia) do now.

  • 15.
  • At 11:18 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • toby stewart wrote:

Xhevdet Hoti wrote:

"Kosova's independence is something that Albanians faught for...."

Indeed.

There is something really quite funny about this whole episode. We have the erstwhile BBC trying as hard as it possibly can to teach the world that the poor victimised KOSOVARS (some of whom are "ethnic albanian") want independence. Meanwhile, every Albanian in Kosovo is waving Albanian flags and celebrating their victory over the hated Serbs.

It is like a scene out of monty python. One can imagine the intel debriefs going on in Kosovo just now:

"Right, chaps, now everyone will be watching, so make sure we put on a jolly good front."

"DEATH TO THE CHRISTIAN SERBIAN SCUM!!"

"Erm..not quite.. let's try again shall we?"

"VICTORY FOR ALBANIA!! NEXT STOP, BELGRADE!"

"Right. Well, maybe we should move out of camera shot? Mmm? Jolly good. This way, chaps!"

"But wait. first I want thank Mr Bushy Blair. He give me nice new country, where can make cocaine in peace. He get rid of Serbian infidels and give me their land. I want thank Mr Bushy Blair. He great Albanian war leader!"

  • 16.
  • At 11:23 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • G Manson wrote:

Now that Gordon Brown has declared it is perfectly acceptable to allow an ethnic minority to acquire any piece of land where they outnumber the competition can we expect to see an independent Northern Ireland, Scotland, Cornwall and Basque country in the near future.

No? I thought not. The two faced handling of this issue defies belief.

I just hope that Gordon and the rest of the European (dis)Union "elite" does not expext us mugs to shell out billions to support this bunch of gangsters posing as a country, because I fail to see how they can support themselves.

  • 17.
  • At 11:36 AM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Violeta wrote:

Why is it that when genocide and ethnic cleansing are mentioned, most of the people (and I mean in the West) refer to Serbs as the ones committing it, no one even mentions it has also happened the other way around. Why doesn't anyone suspect that if your media is so one-sided, it might not be all that objective... They only say how many thousands of people Serbs have killed, but if you just look at the present facts - that Serbs are a minority today in Kosovo, and it wasn't like this, say, 2o years ago, doesn't it make you wonder...? Or are you too brainwashed to consider thinking in a different direction? Both Serbs and Albanians have committed crimes, the hatred between them is huge, but for some reason, Albanians got the US&EU on their side, who turned them into victims, and decided to give them an independent state. What for? For being a majority in a part of the country and simply wanting their own state? I guess I shouldn't remind anyone how many similar cases exist in the world. For the supposed violence over them? Hardly, just look at the numbers. Violence over whom? It's unbelievable and disgusting what propaganda can do. I think that some other interests are in question here, of the US, or who knows, and all this is just manipulation.

  • 18.
  • At 12:11 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Afrim London wrote:

LONG LIVE REPUBLIC OF KOSOVA

  • 19.
  • At 12:13 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Krevedko wrote:

To Justin:

Armenia prospers? Pls read more wikipedia or smth.

  • 20.
  • At 12:47 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Nick KS wrote:

Kosova will not be a precedent for other territories for many reasons. All of the posters here who claim that any minority will not have a precedent to look to should keep in mind that Kosova was a separate federal unit within Yugoslavia, not a republic in the full sense of the word but a federal unit nonetheless.

Second, between 1989 and 1998 the Serbian regime established a state of apartheid in Kosova, which the Kosovar Albanians, to their credit, responded to with peaceful resistance. That us up to 1998 when the democratically elected leader of Serbia, Slobodan Milosevic started systematically expelling the Kosovar Albanians from their land. Over 1 million people were expelled across the border to Macedonia and Albania in a carefully orchestrated campaign to whipe out the Kosovar Albanians from Kosova.

If Kosova is to be a precedent for anything then it will be a precedent for the protection of people of a certain ethnic background from complete annihilation.

It will be a precedent of the free world coming to the aid of innocent civilians who become victims of genocidal dictators and countries.

And finally it will become a precedent that will remind countries throughout the world of what will happen to them if they pursue the same genocidal policies that Serbia pursued.

  • 21.
  • At 01:00 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • edon,Republic of Kosova wrote:

Some of you here, seems to forget.. what happened to albanian people in 1999,where have all of you LAW-advocates been when serbs was killing and doing genocid over albanian people,they killed woman,children,old people,just because they were albanians.
I want to say a big THANK YOU: to USA,United Kingdom especially Tony Blair and also NATO!
Long live the most charming republic of Europe!

  • 22.
  • At 02:05 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Korto wrote:

See you in another 5 years when the newborn republic of North Kosovo declares independence, and promptly merges with Serbia. All in accordance with international law, of course.

  • 23.
  • At 02:17 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Mirek Kondracki wrote:

I don't understand all this.
It's been good 8 years since Milosevic is gone and new democratic governement in Serbia established, so why Kosovars don't want to live with Serbians? Nothing bad happened to them last 7 years so why still want to go alone? [#1]

Perhaps because during those good 8 years top Serbian war criminals (Karadic and Mladic) could not be somehow apprehended by the new democratic government in Serbia and they remember what happened in Vukovar and Srebrenica?

And that nothing bad happened to them only because of the K-FOR presence?

Or maybe they're simply afraid that that government turns out to be as new and democratic as new&democratic government of new improved Russia, Serbia's staunchest ally, and they may yet become another Chechnya?

  • 24.
  • At 02:18 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Matthew Walsh wrote:

If international law says the territorial integrity of a state is more important than the right to national self determination of a people within it, then international law is wrong.

  • 25.
  • At 02:40 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Oscar wrote:

Mr Xhevdet Hoti (#6) wrote that as of now Kosovars have "a flag". Well, if Kosovo is to be a truly multiethnic state, as most Kosovo Albanian leaders repeatedly say, then that state cannot have the Albanian flag or its double headed eagle as its new flag.

Likewise, Kosovo Albanians will have to stop calling their state Kosova in English; higher education will have to be offered in the Serbian language; the judiciary, police and parliament must offer bi-lingual services and state television and radio will have to produce Serbian language programs. Etc. Otherwise, Kosovo will not be the multiethnic state its new leaders claim they want to create.

Unless the new Kosovo lives up to these standards, it should be barred from EU aid. If things get out of hand, the EU should even temporarily revoke Kosovo's self-determination.

  • 26.
  • At 02:42 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Ioannis wrote:

The independence of Kosovo will/has signal a new era of nationalism in Europe. After so many years of constructing EU and killing the monster of nationalism, now every minority, every city with a population different that the local (see Serajevo) will/has the right to declare independence.
Lets see how the Pandora box will be closed again... It took 2 World Wars for the Europeans to close it...

  • 27.
  • At 02:50 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Marcel wrote:

What an utter disgrace. So the ethnic cleansing committed by the criminal KLA is now actually being rewarded.

Hey Bush, Brown & co, when are you going to recognize the independence of Kurdistan, Tibet and Taiwan?

And what about Basque, Catalunya, Brittany, Occitania, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Flanders, Irian Jaya, Maluku, Somaliland, Darfur, Western Sahara, Chechnya, Dagestan, Transnistria, Republica Srpska, native American tribes etc???

Do I smell hypocrisy?

  • 28.
  • At 03:03 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Ronald wrote:

No youre frend may not use the Schengen agreement to travel, as only Schengen white listed countrys may do so, neither may he work in the EU, an country can only be placed on the White list if ALL EU members agree, and as it now stands that Spain will NEVER recognize Kosovo this is virtually impossible, and as long as Spain refuses Kosovo also cannot even become an EU kandidat member.

Now that's cleared thatr Kosovo will never become an part of the EU.

And for all those who cried about what the serbs did in '99, remember that the albanians AND the kosovar Albanians sided with Hitler in WW2 even going so far as creating SS division's which murdered 10's of thousands Serbs and forcing hunderd of thousands to flee in WW2.

The Albanian's where on the wrong side in WW2, and the world shall not forget what you have done.

  • 29.
  • At 03:07 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Arban wrote:

Do you know what! this goes to all the serbs that claim that as their land, how come there is NO SERBS there and please do explain who's done ethnic cleansing and who did have an army killing ALL THE TERRORIST ALBANIANS and why the entire world was supporting the albanians and not the serbs and how come no one is looking for any war criminals in Kosova but they are looking for them in Serbia something tells me that you (serbs) are trying to use religion to try and turn it against us but I'm sure most knowledgable people in here will know or might do a search and find out who lived there before or who thae bad peopale are so why don't you just live ksovan people enjoy their freedom at last? thank you USA and EU, thank you

  • 30.
  • At 03:36 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Jason Becker wrote:

This is the day we mourn the complete breakdown of logic, democracy and international law. As Kosovo Albanians declare independence we watch one of the most brute acts of the new millennium backed by the countries of the west unravel before our very eyes. Pandora's box has been opened and DO expect conflicts all over Europe as other breakaway provinces start declaring their independence in the days and weeks to follow. As exodus of the remaining Serbs in Kosovo is inevitable my heart goes to all Serbian people that are suffering and are about to suffer in the heart of Europe. European Union, you worthless pawn of American political and war interests, you have done enough.

One final thought: I hope (and this isn't that much of a crazy notion) every single one of the countries backing Kosovo's independence gets their own little Muslim country carved out of their borders on their most sacred piece of soil.

Well done everyone...

  • 31.
  • At 03:37 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • acif wrote:

Finaly USA made a right choice to suport REPUBLIC OF KOSOVO well deserved all serbians that don't like that they can go and complain to Slobodan Milosevic he was the one an paramilitar forces of his that made everything come to this point.
All the people who have somthing to complain about let them go back in history and see the stuf serbians did to all Alnanians or any body who is not serbian check the facts then talk!
GOD BLESS AMERICA AND NEW BORN REPUBLIC OF KOSOVO!

  • 32.
  • At 03:39 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • John V. wrote:

Wow.
I'm amazed from the Serbian propaganda successfully brainwashing international community,sure it's well known as one of the worlds best but I didn't know it was so immense.
It's shocking how these comments are so far from the actual facts and reality!

Independence Day for Kosovars and Albanians everywhere was not only a reminder of the many hardships and sacrifices endured throughout the many decades under the former Republic of Yugoslavia, but also of the fact that they belong to a greater community of nations and that they should be free to decide that course for themselves.

  • 34.
  • At 03:48 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Dubya, Netherlands wrote:

Some background information (usefull):

- Their won't be a 'Greater Albania'. Just 2,5% of the Kosovars supports this idea.
- Kosovars are indeed Muslims but very moderate. The Balkan Islam is like a mixture between Christianity, Judaism and Islam.
- Albanians have been the majority in Kosovo since the early 19th century.
- Most 'Albanians' in Kosovo are actually Serbs, converted to Islam under Ottoman rule.
- Albanians and Serbs have the same ancestry: the Illyrians. They are even more related to each other then the Dutch and German peoples.

The Republic of Kosovo should respect it's minority's and protect their rights. I wish good luck to the Kosovars. Succes with your new state!

  • 35.
  • At 04:16 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Mur@ wrote:

It is karma. What goes around comes around. Serbia went around treating the rest of Yugoslavia terribly back in the day and then after that escapade was over the Kosovar Albanian's were given their share. So now justice is being served.

The Republic of Kosova is the result of a crazed dictator just as the Republic of Israel is.

Long live the independent Republic of Kosova.

  • 36.
  • At 04:42 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • steven maynard, bedfordshire wrote:

So many people think this is a bad thing, just think about this logically for a second.
why did all this happen? well over religion and greed. Milosovic wanted more land and to wipe out a muslim majority (kinda sounds like hitler doesn't it)
Its his own fault but serbs are facing the consequences for their leaders acts of genocide.
For people who think Albanians took over the serbs land, type in Illyrians or Dardania in google, and do a bit of historical research before you speak. For those who are claiming "muslim majority's will claim states within the uk..." don't be ridiculous.
Think of this situation like this, either the West(Europe and US) owns Kosovo or the East (Russia) (communism vs capitalism) which is best for the people?
Good luck Kosovo and Serbia, live in harmony

  • 37.
  • At 04:50 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Alan,Warsaw wrote:

I wonder what the people of the US would say if say if the majority of the people of Hawaii and Puerto Rico decided that they too wanted their countries back. It could happen and what then? My guess the Military would soon be brought in to put a stop to all that. Just like Milosovic did eh! Oh what a lovely democracy we live in.

  • 38.
  • At 05:31 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • betimi wrote:

It is hard to understand my fellow Serbs! In 1990's Serbs were creating so called "Krajinas-Serbian states" left and right. They had created two of those in Croatia, claiming that it is three that the Serbian heart is. As a result of this, over thirty thousand Croatians were killed (Croatians are Catholics-do not forget Vukovar). Then they came up with an idea of creating more hearts in Bosnia (in the west the idea of cloning was just an idea when Serbs in Balkans performed the cloning itself!!!). As a result of the "second surgery", over 200,000 nonserbs (Bosnians and Bosnian Croats were killed-remember Sarajevo, Srebrenica and so many other places). Then, because they had so many cloned hearts they thought it's time for a "Serbian-cradle" for the hearts, and it was the time to start the "surgery" in Kosova. As a result, tens of thousands killed, massacred-some were never found to this day, they tried to hide their horrible crimes! Hundreds of thousands forced out of Kosova. So it was OK for Serbs to form those "Serbian states" in Croatia and Bosnia? It is time for Serbs to wake up, and face the reality, they fought against Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Kosova...now they want to fight with EU! This is ridiculous.
Europe does not know anymore where the serbian heart is! In Slovenia,Croatia, Bosnia,Kosova,Serbia or Russia?!

  • 39.
  • At 06:09 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Ben wrote:

So many negative comments, no doubt from Serbs in disguise, but anyway, after what Milosevic did, who dare argue?! I don't remember the Russians or the Serbs rising and demanding that the Serb army stop the atrocities, do you? No - I thought so!
And one simple fact, where are the Serbs from? Ohh yes, Slav from Russia! If Kosovo was always yours, surely Albania was yours too?!
I think this is long overdue, in my opinion, Russia should be isolated ASAP as they are pushing their luck, 10 years ago their government was living on handouts from the West, now they're not even thankful.

  • 40.
  • At 06:34 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Mimoza wrote:

What won't kill them will only make them stronger.

Serbs thought they would clean the Kosovars from the face of the Earth, but made a huge mistake.

That is why Albanian women are heroes and give birth to 5 and more children

Long live Kosova the NEWBORN.... Finally a deserved freedom

  • 41.
  • At 06:50 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Gordana wrote:

What puzzles me most is that Kosovo now claims to be "democratic" and "multi-ethnic" when it seems that for the last decade or so, it has been following much the same policy it claimed Serbia had: purification of the population. Why is what has historically always been a part of Serbia now 90% *Albanian*? Multi-ethnic? I don't believe it.

The policies that made this possible perhaps were not as obviously violent but no less cruel. Long before the official declaration, NATO was drawing up "evacuation plans" for the Serbs - Serbs whose families have lived on this land for centuries in some cases. Taking 15% of the country's land, ignoring all their wishes - and I do mean every last one - then claiming to be liberators does not make you such. This process follows the same plan as the dismantling of SFR Yugoslavia, and we see how clean THAT cut was. There is something very wrong indeed when a country claiming to be independent and sovereign does so by waving the AMERICAN flag.

On top of this, Serbia is being robbed of vital trade passages to the rest of the Balkans. Anyone expecting her to lie down and be dismembered suffers from a pretty grand delusion. And think of the rest of Eastern Europe - will not the Ukrainians and the terrorist province of Chechnya follow suit? This is the very reason Russia will find a grip on the Balkans, and the West itself is to blame. What has Serbia really left to lose but her soul? She has only to gain in a partnership with Russia, and Serbia as her people know her will disappear.

Thank you, NATO, America and the rest of the brutal, self-serving so-called "liberators" - you have finally turned on the Great Meat Grinder of the East.

  • 42.
  • At 07:01 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Alex wrote:

When Milosevic was massacring Bosnians in Bosnia, Croats in Croatia and Kosovars in Kosovo, in order to form ethnically clean Serbian state on the land that never belonged to Serbia, Serbians voted overwhelmingly for him, Russia kept quiet and EU silently let him do whatever he wanted.
When Croats, Bosnians and Kosovars who survived started, fighting back, smart “heads” started talking how everyone is the same. Sorry people but when the murderer comes into your house and kills you family – and if you fight back and kill the murderer – you are not the same as him. You are just defending yourself and your family.
Milosevic had one of the largest Army in Europe under his control, while Bosnia, Kosovo or Croatia did not even have an Army by the time Milosevic ethnically cleansed 75% of Bosnia (1992), 30% of Croatia (1991) and expelled 1,000,000 Albanians. Where were the Russians and those pro-democracy forces in Serbia to protest these crimes?
When Bosnians, Croats and NATO on behalf Kosovars start fighting Milosevic back, all of a sudden Serbs started crying out loud and their supporters in Moscow.

  • 43.
  • At 07:35 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Alan,Warsaw wrote:

Just a thought. The first country to recognise Kosovo was Afghanistan!! Forgive me if I chuckle at that. There's the biggest producer of heroin in the world recognizing a country, that, is supposed to be (from what I read ) the biggest manufacturer of cocaine in Europe. Must be some irony here!

  • 44.
  • At 07:49 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Bernard wrote:

Those Serbs are unbelievable.
Their politicians started several wars within a decade, all of them involving henious crimes against humanity and STILL they dare to claim they're the victims?!

Can you imagine the Germans claiming to be the victims of WW2 on may 9th 1945?


Instead of blaming the west for your mistakes blame your politicians! And blame yourselves for not stopping your politicians when they announced their genocidal views.

  • 45.
  • At 08:01 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Bernard wrote:

This is one for the Kosovars:

Congratualtions on your independence.

Now don't make the western nations that support you look like fools.
Prove them right (and Russia and Serbia wrong) by working hard at becoming a model state, where ALL citizens are able to live free of fear. Where everyone can go and pursuit liberty, happiness and wealth.
Do not repeat the mistakes of the past, do not let the ghost of Milosevic determine your future (vis à vis minorities).

Good luck.

  • 46.
  • At 09:02 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Violeta wrote:

I am Serbian, and not at all in disguise, as someone here suggested.
First of all, it's not Kosova, it's Kosovo.
The fact that bothers me most is how you tend to see things from only one angle, the one imposed by your media. And I'm not saying that the media here in Serbia is not equally biased, the propaganda is horrible, always has been. But what I'm trying to say is - neither Albanians nor Serbs are right, they've both done awful things, why doesn't anyone care to see the situation from each and every aspect? It's so easy to just believe what they serve to you as the truth, especially if it's what you want to believe. I know, I grew up believing that the Albanians are the "bad guys", and it's only natural when you hear frightening stories every day from the refugees coming from Kosovo, about what they've gone through, what the Albanians did to them... But when I grew up and got to be more critical, I realized that Serbs committed atrocities as well. And another very important thing - you shouldn't base your opinion of a people only on some small group, and that is very often done in the world regarding Serbia. Believe me, no one feels more disgusted over crimes that some (not all!!!) Serbs did, than the rest of us, the majority of us, which is peaceful and civilized, but more than often Serbia is portrayed as a country of bloodthirsty savages. Propaganda again.
As for the independence, it was only expected, and what lead to it were mostly those horrible politicians we had for decades, and of course the ever meddling US, and as much as it hurts, as much as unfair it is to us, that's the way it is. I wish (and still believe) we could have all lived together in peace. Especially now, when we have different government and things are changing.
Anyway, best wishes to everyone in Kosovo, and, although I don't believe this to be the best solution, I hope at least all the fights end here.

  • 47.
  • At 09:08 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Marcel wrote:

@ Ben (39), stephen (36) et al:

You seem to have been brainwashed by the western media and have bought the media version of the Yugoslavian wars hook, line and sinker.

I bet you don't know anything about the islamic jihad waged by Izetbegovic' mujahedeen friends or the socalled KLA.

@betini (38)

You know who poured fuel over the explosive situation in the late 1980's and early 1990's? It was our friends from the then EEC. The EEC was toasting with Yugoslavian leaders (Milosevic included) and promised to support them to keep Yugoslavia together. The EEC did this days after Croatia and Slovenia had already seceded. In fact, an EEC diplomat from Luxembourg contemptuously scoffed that Slovenia was 'too small to be independent' (the irony here is that Slovenia is bigger than Luxembourg).

I'll be awaiting the same peoples who support the Kosovo independence if they will also support the same for Kurdistan and Tibet. Will you?

Marcel - Netherlands

  • 48.
  • At 09:33 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Leka wrote:

CONGRADULATION to the NEW BORN. This is the last piece that came out the YU. These are the people that paid most for their Independence. Some comments I read here are to be sorry. I don’t think those people remember the late 1990s but I will highly encourage them to get a HISTORY book to read and understand since they did not experienced the war. We live in 21st century and I am asking them to live with the rest of the world. Congratulation to the people of KOSOVA. Congratulation of the NEWBORN to the families that lost their love ones. GOD BLES KOSOVA, GOD BLESS all the KOSOVARS (Albanians, Serbs, Turks, Roms).

  • 49.
  • At 09:50 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Brandan wrote:

When a state is built on 'real' ethnic cleansing and 'real' genocide like this new state has been, it cannot have a long life. What happened in WWII to the Serbs in Kosovo at the hands of Albanian SS divisions is a discrase. Tito forgave them and even prevented Serbs from returning to their homes after that war. Hopefully, the Serbs have learnt a valuable lesson, next time a strong force takes over Europe ie. like what Nazi Germany did, joint them and don't fight them, your better off in the long run, as you can see for yourself. It's all about might is right and forget about justice or principles. Also, it helps if your state is a drug dealing haven. Discrasefull indeed.

  • 50.
  • At 09:53 PM on 18 Feb 2008,
  • Hardy Campbell wrote:

The Serbs should just be thankful they weren't occupied in 1999 like they should have been. Then we'd be talking about dismembering Serbia and giving portions of it to all the neighbors it brutalized. But, because Serbia was allowed to continue its existence, you watch - the seeds of the Fourth Balkan War have been sown.

  • 51.
  • At 12:08 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • xhevdet hoti wrote:

Oscar #25- The six stars on the flag represent the six minorities that make up Kosova/o (including Serbs) . In Serbian it's called Kosovo and in Albanian it's called Kosova. I call it Kosova but it doesn't matter. Our flag contains no double headed eagle. We will try hard to be a multiethnic country, just give us a chance please. I hope one day you will change your mind and realize that it wasn't a mistake that your country and other Western states acepted Kosova/o's will to be independent.

  • 52.
  • At 12:19 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Maja wrote:

It's disappointing what propaganda will do! All of you that are claiming that research should be checked and analyzed, do you ever consider that all information available to the public is manipulated based on the source that you are observing? Let's see what happens next! If Serbs were the only ones committing crimes, then why is 90% of the population in Kosovo Albanian? Of course there has to be a greater reason for the support of independence for countries within EU as well as USA... maybe self-interest? Getting close to Russia perhaps? Consider the geographical location of Kosovo and look directly ahead at what persists... Hm... Just a thought!

  • 53.
  • At 06:22 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Danijel ,Republic of SERBIA wrote:

All Albanians claim that their independent is deserved. Let's see the history . During Ottomans empire Albanian people start to move from their moutain's home in today Alabania to Kosovo .In Ottoman empire muslins had a benefits such as free tax ,and serbian people were under thier power . Immense number of serbian people left Kosovo after Austrians -Ottomans war becouse serbs were affraid of possible punisment - There were 2 large serbs migracion from Kosovo during Ottomans. Alabanins accept islam becouse of that . In 19-th Serbia won their independent . Albanians were malcontent with new position and stared to forse more Serbs to live their home in Kosovo or convert themself .It was Ottomans interest to have two fraction which didn't tolerate themself becouse Kosovo was part of Ottoman country . After 1912 war Serbia released Kosovo from Ottomans(albanians were at ottoman side). Ratio between Srbs and Albanian was 1:1 in that period today(1:10-explanation).Serbia had possibility to move all Allbanian from Kosovo and to conquer even Albania -becouse Srbs won that war . I want mention that Serbia was truely democratic community and didn't do that . Albania was founded .Inspite of that Albanians were not satisfied. They tended to united all Albanians in Great Albania it wasn't matter they did not have majority .Situation were calm up to WW2 whan Italy "adopted Albania "with great expectation (they joined in struggle against Serbs. Within that period of pease Albanians refused to take part in serbian parlament - thay have all right to do that , but ..In WW2 2milions Srbs lost their life for free Europe -(we all see bestow of Europe).After war communizam took Serbia . Srbs had a chance to exterminate Albanians in Kosovo but they DIDN't . Albanian again start their terorist war against Srbs but srbs didnt responded on affect way - as albanian do killing oponent and still refusing to work in multietnic Jugoslavia.Albanians refused to go on election ,sensus, parlament . All world was blind .day by day Milosevic won at elections in Serbia and start struggle on his way - rought way . But Albanians provocate that . They started killing serbian civilian as they do durig long time but in large numbers . Presedent Milosevic began his action on Kosovo . Srbs army killed many of Albanians terorist , and unfortunatly many Albanians civil ... 1999 NATO took Kosovo and gave all right Albanian to continue their job . Over 300000 Srbs have left Kosovo since NATO and EU took control over it . About half milion Albanians moved from Albania to Kosovo . And now ratio between Srbs and Albanians is 1:10 . this is way This is world democracy - to destroy one nacion . Its not over yet Serbs will fight for their rights no matter what republic of terrorists (Kosovo) do ." freedom for all free people "

  • 54.
  • At 07:44 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Artan wrote:

You guys that are writting under British or west names.

I'm albanian.
I'll not writte something or comment under nationalism.
I think that at the past are done a lot of mistakes by the history where for sure are involved to much countries.
Nobody didn't took the Kosovo.
Very simple they choose to be free.
As a react for all the genocid during centuries.
for sure that the last one from Your leader Milosevich that were vote by you.
So guys enought is enought.
You want Kosovo without kosovars.
For their resurces to work as all the republics of YU for Belgrade.

They are autoctons there even you have tryed to assimilate this people bringing refugies from Kroatia,Bosnia during their left handover.
Also the history will approve how much tolerants are albanians.
You will see with the rest of your minority during time after time.
For sure that EU will increase the standarts in KS.
For sure that this will affect and your minority if this will be collaborate.
After some times when they will be richest than Serbia they will choose.
You couldn't keep KS with force becouse you and RU together you can't.
Dessires and wishes of a nation are so great than everything.
So dearest all of you that are opposed.
Just be cool your minds.
You have clearly to decide are you wanted to enter in EU.
If this is true. You have not worry for France,Deutchland nor Kosovo.
Nothing will happen.
KS will survive
For sure without Milosevich and Zemun Klans (maybe the bigest in Europe).
You guys that are shamed to be British.
Great Britain has worked during all the times as US for their citizen prosperity.
Trust me they have done the right thing.
That thing that didn't do at the 20th century.
KS is independent.
Will be free for ever becouse that is kosovars wishes.
TOLERANCE,PEACE BROTHERS...
Otherwise you will lose.
History will recuparate everything (even there might be wonds)

  • 55.
  • At 09:50 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • DW wrote:

I feel really bad about serbs these days. Wake up Serbs. Siberia or Brussels, its your choice.

  • 56.
  • At 10:07 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Fadil wrote:

Apparently freedom of writing gives people opportunity to say everything. Some people mentioned that Serbia is democratic state. Maybe but look at the present situation in Serbia. Radicals almost won last elections for Serbian president. This group (radicals) is directly responsible for ethnic cleansing in Croatia, Bosna and Hercegovina and Kosova. Every state in history who did things like Serbia lost it's territory. Look at Austria-Hungary empire, Germany etc. Some people argue that all nations in ex Yugoslavia killed each other but who can find such situation when 7000 civilians were killed within day like it was in Srebrencica when Serbs committed such crime. Serbian military in Kosova killed women, children and old people, they expelled Albanians from their homes and sequestered identity documents so Albanians could not have even identity, Serbian army has burnt Kosovo during the conflict on 1998 and 1999. Nobody is alleged for those committed crimes by "democratic" Serbia.

  • 57.
  • At 10:26 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Marko Bonila (Italy) wrote:

You make conclusions, I'll just give the facts that are easy to check:

- Number of Serbians from 1945 till now went from 50% to 5%.
- An average Albanian family in Kosovo has 5 to 10 kids. The Albanians have the highest growth rate in Europe, with those from Kosovo having a higher rate of growth than in Albania.
- Albanians did everything possible to decimate Serbian population in both world wars, with the Nazi help from Italy and Germany (look who is going to recognize Kosovo now, connect the dots).
- Albanians had free school and University in Albanian but decided to boycott state schools, they choose not to go to school for a decade.
- Armed rebellion started in 1998, in which they killed more than 50 police officers before police started tracking them down.
- Mass exodus and war crimes happened after NATO started bombing Serbia, as expected (even in US people took revenge after 9/11) but we use those crimes to justify the bombing, although we triggered the whole mess. Nobody here shows the timeline of crimes and our actions.
- Before the bombing we set up a lynch party, crafting a deal that no country would sign to justify bombing (Rambouillet), and then never again mention this but use crimes we triggered.
- We use numbers to justify Kosovo independence, failing to mention we expelled most of the non-Albanians from Kosovo: in our presence more than 250,000 Serbians got expelled. You will not find any other part of Europe that has less minorities (Serbians being degraded to a minority here, in the heart of their civilization).
- Western media assumes the history starts in 1990. Nazi past and contribution to today's ethnic picture of Kosovo is not mentioned. Yet, we gave Poland more votes in EU because they got decimated in WW2 by Germans, and here we declare Serbians to be minority in the part of their contry.
- Current "premier" of Kosovo was a war general in Croatia where he did his best to expel Serbians, and then start armed rebellion in Kosovo. He is untouchable by the Hague tribunal, accused for crimes against Serbians but allowed to go home and finish what he started.
- Churches and sacral objects that survived 600 years of Ottoman empire occupation got wiped out in the presence of NATO/EU troops.
- At the end of the Kosovo war we found out that about 6,000 people died. Almost half of this number were Serbians, very disproportionate number considering that they were only about 10% of the population at the time.
- See what New York Times was writing about expulsion of Serbians from their homes in Kosovo, in 1980 and before.

So many things about this independence are fishy that I cannot believe that with all this information and documents we are still setting up a stage for a future war. As usual, Serbians might be guilty of crimes but justice and truth is mainly on their side here. They caught us with our pants down and nobody seems to notice (or care). We broke every moral or local/international law in pushing for Kosovo independence, removing Serbians from their land: our policy makes me sick.

  • 58.
  • At 10:45 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Krevedko wrote:

Who says that Serbs came from Russia?
Serbs came from Germany. Indeed a small group of SOrbs still identifies themeselves in Eastern Germany. Is this really important to know who came first?
Illyrians were prior but nobody knows yet if there's any connection between them and albanians (i mean culturally, albanians did not save any evidence, indeed even Illyrian culture is relatively unknown yet!).
Serbian state appeared earlier. But both albanians and serbs fought on the same side with ottomans in 14-15 centuries and then what? A simple substitution of the population in Kosovo. Why? How? Serbians became albanians and muslims or had been wiped out? Nobody knows!
There had been many atrocities committed by serbs and against them, by albanians and against them!
And when it's impossible to decide who's right or who's wrong in this bloody war which never ended, then what? escalate the violence? I think no. I think that everybody can leave peacefully if the LAW is respected.
Unfortunately this time the law was not respected. It was sacrificed in order to maintain a relative truce between both sides, but Kosovo independence is not a right decision, it's a consession. Very pity to hear that the International LAW is not respected by its creators, by guarantors of democracy.

  • 59.
  • At 11:56 AM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Sam wrote:

Facts:

pre-1945:
- serbs to albanians in Kosovo, at least 3-1

1945-1980:
- Tito redraws Yugoslavia's internal republic borders to minimize influence of any single ethnic group. Kosovo border included
- Tito encouraages open immigration by Albanians into Kosovo

1998-9:
- Media reports 100,000 albanians killed by Serbs in Kosovo
- Actual agreed numbers are approximately 3000

2003:
- In one night, dozens of serbian historic churchs are blown up/terrorized.

2008:
- Albanians outnumber serbs, 9:1

  • 60.
  • At 01:14 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Oleg, Moscow, Russia wrote:

Ben wrote:
"Russia should be isolated ASAP as they are pushing their luck, 10 years ago their government was living on handouts from the West"
Yea ok. Isolate Russia, do it, like you did it at the USSR's time.
Isolate Russia from Europe, isolate Europe from gas, oil and wood from Syberia.
We'll see how European companies like BP, will live without our oil.

  • 61.
  • At 02:28 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Marco wrote:

Albanians are descendants of Ilyrs, people that have lived on Balkan peninsula for thousands of years.
The violance between Serbs and Albanians has been happening in cycles, since 19th century.
Albanians outnumbered Serbs, and currently make up 90% of Kosovo's population.
During Milosevic's rule, terrible crime were commited to Kosovo's Albanian population.
It ended up with Kosovo's independence.
This story is not isolated from the other parts of former Yugoslavia that have declared independence. The reasons are very similar. Regretfully, Serbs were in conflict with all of them, not only Albanians.

  • 62.
  • At 02:46 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • vlad wrote:

A great success for Europe and the whole world.
Now it is the turn of Wales, Scotland, Catalonia, the Basque County, Northern Cyphres, Transylvania,California and Florida to become independent.
Good luck!

  • 63.
  • At 03:14 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Petar L wrote:

Republic of Kosova = The newest puppet state of the US/West. You must be so happy

  • 64.
  • At 03:15 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Mehmet Kara wrote:

Congratulations for the new Republic of Kosova from Turkey!

Now it's time to create a country where everyone can join in for opportunity and prosperity. To give everyone rights, whether Turks or Serbs, or Bosniaks or Gorani or Roma...

It is time to make a country contradicting that Serbian ultra-nationalism which have killed hundreds of thousands.

That is the only way you will have justice, and put those who have tried to eradicate the people of Kosova into shame.

Good Luck!

  • 65.
  • At 05:54 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Fisnik wrote:

i just wanna say to Nives. It is not Albanians that immigrated to serbia, it is the serbs that immigrated to Albania. Britain does not cry that they lost Hong Kong because it was never theirs, neither should you cry about lozing Kosova, because like the Brits you were just a colony... Sure u built churches on top of our churches, sure there has been serbs living In Kosova for a few hundred years, still doenst make Kosova yours. When the Turks occupied Kosova they fought the albanins, when Macedonia took Shkup (skopje) they fought the albanians. So the question is, If Kosova was infact the cradle of your civilization, how come you never protected it? how come outside invders fought Albanians in order to occupy Kosova, how come only less than 200000 serbs live there, and finally how come it was left in ruins all this time while the REST of "serbia" was built in infrastructure and so on... Think about it, your 150 years of propagnda are over, the west is fixing its mistakes one of which involved setting kosova under yougoslavia.

  • 66.
  • At 06:07 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Victor wrote:

I find it funny that serbia is calling Dardania(kosovo) a puppet state.
Serbia has been Russia's puppet from the beging

  • 67.
  • At 07:09 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Sara wrote:

Kosovo is Serbian and will be Serbian!!!

  • 68.
  • At 10:29 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Liza wrote:

With so many veto votes awaiting, hopefully you Kosovo will NEVER become member of EU.
It more likely to become member of Albanian Union and then we might realise the big mistake our governments made!

  • 69.
  • At 10:45 PM on 19 Feb 2008,
  • Liza wrote:

With so many veto votes awaiting, hopefully you Kosovo will NEVER become member of EU.
It more likely to become member of Albanian Union and then we might realise the big mistake our governments made!

  • 70.
  • At 04:48 AM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • ioannis wrote:

Dear Dubya,

Just a comment about what you wrote about the relationship between Serbs and Albanians. They are not both Illyrians. Illyrians are an ancient Balkan tribe, even mentioned by Herodotus (see Persian wars, by Herodotus) in the 5th century BC. Albanians might be linked to them. The Serbs on the other hand are Slavs that occupied that area in the 6th century AC with the permission of the Roman empire of that time.
Best Regards.

Will you be as enthusiastic when Kurds declare an independent state in south east Anatolia with its capital at Diyarbakir? Followed by the Laz..and the Zaza....

  • 72.
  • At 12:21 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • Petrit wrote:

The facts presented by Sam are not facts at all but a bunch of lies. Even with Serb official statistics, which needles to say, are biased, the albanians were a majority before 1945.

  • 73.
  • At 03:38 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • Eli wrote:

The fact is that Kosovo cannot go back with Serbia just because Milosevic left. what are they going to do ask for indepedence or go back with it every time the government changes in Serbia (needless to remind that Kushtunica's comments did not change that much from Milosevic)
Seondly, Kosovo de facto has been seperated from Seriba for about 7 years. Declaration of Independence by now is just a formality as for it is inevitable its partition from Serbia. and For those Serbian ppl that think that they were there before Serbs:
1.there is no point discussing who came first (that does not lead anywere)
2. it is strongly argyable if Albanians (one of the oldest civilizations in the europe) went there after the Sebs or better say any slavs appeared in Europe

  • 74.
  • At 04:59 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • Justin wrote:

Krevedko,

Armenia has one of the fastest growing economies in Europe. Considering the country was destroyed by a Phenomenal earthquake, Armenians are doing very well in trying to lift themselves out of poverty.

So please go and read more Wikipedia or smth.

  • 75.
  • At 07:22 PM on 20 Feb 2008,
  • Liza wrote:

With so many veto votes awaiting, hopefully you Kosovo will NEVER become member of EU.
It more likely to become member of Albanian Union and then we might realise the big mistake our governments made!

  • 76.
  • At 03:39 AM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • Petar Vojinovic wrote:

Harsh reality that will have to be accepted sometimes. We lost Kosovo and Metohia to a bunch of "democratic leaders" personally no better than Milosevic himself.

Before you start bashing me because I am a "savage Serb who is blinded by media" let me give you a piece of my mind, my two cents.

Yes, I am Serb. Yes, I know we killed Albanians. I also know we expelled them and I am not going to turn my blind eye to that. What we did to them was horrible and disgraceful. But please stop being a bunch of hypocrites. Same things have happened to Serbs as well. Judging by what I have heard on foreign media during 1999. seems Serbs are the only nation that managed to expel and kill more people from one territory than their actual population count.

Don't forget Albanian victims who died from the hands of blind people thinking they are doing something good for their own country, that they have right to decide about the matter of life and death. But don't forget Serbian victims as well, who died under similar circumstances. You are talking about our atrocities against Croats, Bosnians, Albanians? And yet you seem to "forget" about the atrocities you committed against Serbs. How many Serbs, from 350.000+ expelled from Croatia returned back? How many Serbs, from 200.000+ expelled from Kosovo returned back? Did any of you western people ever mentioned how sorry you are from 5000 civilians you killed in 1999? I don't recall I have heard you are feeling ashamed about what you did then. Any Albanian here said anything about all those missing Serbs and others, presumed dead? About the churches you burnt to the ground, about Serbian houses you blown to pieces, about Serbian women you raped?

You did the same to us as we did to you. You are no better nor worse than us. We are all humans with our hideous nature to kill for the "greater good". So for your own good, wake up as well, admit your own crimes as you are asking us to admit our own. "So why do you see the piece of sawdust in another believer's eye and not notice the wooden beam in your own eye?"

I am all too tired of being the blackest of all the sheep. I am tired of being pushed around and taught democracy by others who forgot about their own crimes. Let me mention some. Croats, do you remember Jasenovac, the concentration camp where more than 600.000 Serbs were executed during the WWII just for the sake of being Serbs? And you Germans, names like Auschwitz or Mauthausen ring any bell? English and Americans, bombing of Dresden sounds familiar? Albanians, Division of the SS Skanderbeg (1st Albanian) existed no matter what you say. Americans, our "democracy leaders", where are all the Indian tribes in America now? Was it worth to kill all those Japanese civilians in 1945, with not one but with two nuclear bombs? Belgians and Dutch, remind me what did you do to civilians in your colonies of Kongo and Indonesia, apart from cutting their limbs off? Turks, same cries of horror for which you point in my direction, I am hearing from Kurds as well. Spainards and Portuguese, Incas and others are no more, why?

Every nation killed and was killed. Every nation should be ashamed of what they did to others solely because they are, well, others. So stop pointing in my direction just because I am a Serb, a bad guy "who you all love to hate", a cowboy with a black hat while you all pretend to be cowboys with white ones. Yes, I know it makes you all warm from the inside because of "all the good" you did but for your own sake, wake up from your own lies and try to seek the truth somewhere else than just media. Try for once to listen to both sides in a conflict and only then you will be capable of understanding how gray the truth actually is.

  • 77.
  • At 04:43 PM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • Linda wrote:

GET OVER IT PEOPLE!!!! Time to move on!!!!! Luckily, for you Serbia has smarter people than all of you who have posted here. So many comments related to violations of international laws and conventions....did the Serbs think to speak of intl laws in 1998-1999 (and even before that), when the most fundamental rights and freedoms of thousands of civilians were violated, when in the name of sovereignty countless mass graves were filled with bodies of children, men and women, young and old? And for all you who might think that I am just throwing out fancy terminology, I actually know what I am talking about. I have been there and I have felt your "righteous" and "democratic" gov't and seen it all. I have seen my friends suffer seizures because of massive poisoning of students (end of 80s), I have been denied the right to go to school, I have had limited movement for years and, I have been forced out of my own house...I could go on an on, the list is really long. And all this for what? For a name that ceased to exist when Tito died. Trying to desperately hold on to something that was gone long ago. Yes, Kosova is a three days old state, and yes there is a long path ahead, but at least the cycle has come to an end, and frankly I doubt that educated Serbs and the elite in Serbia really care whether Kosova is independent or not. What we saw during the last couple of days in Serbia were groups of frustrated individuals who got nothing better to do with their time. One short advice to all the Serbs who have posted comments here, "Serbia is not the center of the universe, Serbs are not a divine nation and yes for you who might have missed it, MILOSEVIC died!".....therefore, this site is not Gazimestan so there is no need to wave patriotic speeches....Europe is an arena of economic progress, political stability, so guys, you better switch the tune, because I don't see any light at the end of the tunnel for you anytime soon, not like this.....And to my fellow countrymen, HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!! URIME PAVARESIA!

  • 78.
  • At 05:26 PM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • Kastrioti wrote:

It is clear that some fear the creation of THE GREATER ALBANIA. Not to worry friends, Albanians only take what is theirs.

  • 79.
  • At 06:48 PM on 21 Feb 2008,
  • Mirek Kondracki wrote:

Americans, our "democracy leaders", where are all the Indian tribes in America now? [#69]

Mostly in highly profitable casinos which they own and in which many "pale faced" Yanks willingly hand them back some of the riches the Brits and the Dutch and the French took from the "redskins" centuries before there was even any talk of U.S.

BTW So called American Indians, are not Indians, and not native either: they are immigrants, just like the rest of us, only from the earlier wave; in a large part from North Eastern Siberia.

Let me also answer those who ask what "would U.S. do if millions of Latinos decided to make Texas, etc. part of Mexico."

They won't, because they know only too well that if Texas, and New Mexico, and Arizona, and California for good measure, were made part of Mexico those states would soon become just like...hmm...Mexico.

Which of course would force those Latinos to emigrate again, only farther north.


See, there are countries people are literally dying to get into, and countries people are literally dying to get out from.

I'm sure you know which are which and why.

  • 80.
  • At 01:59 PM on 22 Feb 2008,
  • albana wrote:

to the person that is below me (i am a kosovoan muslim by the way) kosovans want to be free of serbia as they have caused us so much pain and hurt. Kosovo deserves its independance as you can see Serbia are not very peacful by their protests and their pathetic violence. Kosovo is a great new nation and i am happy to see that it got its independance. Serbia has to accept that its "cradle" is now KOSOVO! Kosova has not forgotten what the serbians have done and will never forget what they are doing now.

  • 81.
  • At 09:59 PM on 25 Feb 2008,
  • Laert Dogjani wrote:

@ Petar Vojinovic

I sympathy with you for the nice try. It's a good start. I did not read anywhere in your post the phrase "sorry Albanians for what we did". Now, to help you a little bit...The radicals in Serbia still get like 50% of the vote (give or take 10%). War criminals are still at large. Since you go back in history, please allow me to ask, "what was the serb army doing as south as Tirana and Durres during the Balkan Wars and WWI"? The Kosova "border" was elsewhere.

As a final note, in the begining of the '90s you commanded the yugoslav army and were the strongest. You had the chance to peacefully lead the balkans towards "ethnic states" but that was not enough because it came as normal to you that since you were strongest you should get more. Well, I think you really enjoy GLORY IN DEFEAT. I did not see you celebrating this time though. Should I think that you have changed and will soon say sorry?

  • 82.
  • At 05:18 PM on 26 Feb 2008,
  • Richard wilson wrote:

Mark, awful journalism. Pathetic, really. You never mention the facts: Albanians became a majority in Kosovo how??By cleansing KosovO of its Serb and Roma thru violence. Well-documented in the 80's by all news agencies.In the removal of native Serbs, the Muslim population that was invited by Tito and shushed north by Hoxha, came to have the highest birthrate in Europe.Since 1999, the EU ignores gross human rights violations by Albanians, just as they ignored their own reporting of ethnic cleansing of Serbs. Milosovic was a response to this. Please, and Tudjman and Izebetovic were well underway on their own path to ethnically clean states, which the EU and US had no problemos with--why? Because Serbia was anti-EU and anti-American....by God, one cant have that. Ergo, intervention on the side of the poor Musselmen and Croats and later Albanian terrorists.Bravo!Viva le Eu!Forget Tokyo Rose, we now have Munchen Mark!

  • 83.
  • At 05:12 AM on 28 Feb 2008,
  • Ardiana wrote:

Note to Serbs:Get over it, Kosova was never yours and it will never be.. It belongs to Kosovars.

Gezuar Pavarsien Kosovë!!! Proud to be Kosovar Albanian !!


  • 84.
  • At 04:25 AM on 12 Mar 2008,
  • Tringa wrote:

Replying to Nives post:
First of all Albanians were always in Kosova, they did not cross the border from Albania - that is in fact another Serbian Propaganda my friend.

Albanians are discendents of Illyrians and were always in the Balkans even before the serbians.

Serbians came in to the Balkans from the Carpathian Mountains in about 6AD while Albanians were there 1000BC.

Also, Kosova was NEVER legally a part of Serbia. It was occupied by Serbians in 1912 and not "libirated" as Serbs claim.

Kosova is the last breakup of an atocratic ex-yugoslav government.

HAPPY INDEPENDENCE KOSOVA.

  • 85.
  • At 08:44 PM on 26 Mar 2008,
  • bluerose799 wrote:

It's about time to recognize the historical right of Kosova (Dardania) to have its destiny fulfilled-That is full independence. Kosova never was a Serbian province. It was there, since the times of birth of European civilization, a very distinct Dardanian/llyrian identity. Always populated by Dardanias who, although under constant pressure of forcefully migration by Serbian shovinism, Tito's Yugoslavia & Milloshevic's Serbia, still make up 92% of the population. They speak ilirian language with the dialect GEGE. Serbs always have been a minority there. We know that Serbs appeared in Balkans (then llyria) only by the 6th Century AD, and they speak a language more similar to Ukrainian then Russian. They have always been a minority and 'the story' of Kosova being the Heartland of Serbia is just a pure Serbian nationalist fantasy. Facts Speak Louder Than Words and Serbian’s Lies Will Collapse by Themselves. Serbs always have been considered as oppressors there, not just by Albanian majority, but also by other ethnic groups too. Serbs just occupied Kosova during the rise of the Serbian nationalism early 20th century from Ottomans, who by then were loosing the Balkans after 500 years of occupation. The borders of Kosova are well established and recognized. Now Kosova should be Free! http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/62/094.html
I can’t comprehend how a minority of 7% of the population, pretend to take off the land, the language, culture and the life of the rest of Kosova. Kosovars have the right to live free and independent in their land where they are born, generation after generation, live and will die.

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