Time to do our duty
"Flexible working," we are told by the government, "can benefit everyone - employers, employees and their families."
Everyone? What about the local scout troop?
Flexible working sounds so sensible - a modern progressive employment structure which fits in with people's busy lives. But it can also translate as "unpredictable hours", making it much harder for people to commit to activities outside the workplace.
Once upon a time, 9 to 5 was the working day, not an occasional shift pattern. People knew where they would be at what time. Tea on the table at 5.30. Darts match at seven. Bed at a quarter past ten.
Fixed hours meant that you could plan ahead. You could make commitments. But now staggered hours, flexitime and job shares make it difficult to promise to be there every Wednesday night. Ask the Scouts.
Tens of thousands of young people, as many girls as boys, are desperate to join Baden-Powell's youth movement - but are stuck on the waiting list.
Why? Because not enough adults are available to lead the troops. There are currently 33,000 youngsters who want to join but cannot because the organisation is 7,000 volunteers short.
Why? Partly because the image of the scout leader has been tarnished. Too many abuse scandals. Too many woggle jokes. Too uncool.
But the Scout Association thinks that the biggest problem is not image. It is that being a scout leader involves too great a commitment.
Scouting is actually going through a small renaissance. Numbers enrolled have risen slightly in the last couple of years (the brown line and left-hand axis above) and the number of adults working with young people has also gone up a bit (the blue line and right-hand axis).
But, shockingly, supply cannot meet demand in a society which consistently complains that there's not enough for young people to do.
What the two lines reveal is that in 1985, there were roughly five scouts for every adult. Today, it is closer to one adult for every four scouts. And the reason, I am told, is that you need more volunteers to cover for those who are busy doing something else that night.
If today's troops had the same level of staffing as 24 years ago, there would be no waiting list. As I was waiting to go on Radio 2 this lunchtime to talk about community spirit, who should I bump into but the new Chief Scout himself, Bear Grylls.
"Hello Bear", I ventured. "Do you think flexible working is one of the reasons for the shortage of volunteers in the association?"
"I am not interested in problems," he replied. "We need to come up with solutions."
It is a philosophy that probably works very well when Bear, a professional adventurer, is confronted by a grizzly. Maybe some positive thinking will be effective with this problem too. "We need new ways of encouraging people to volunteer," he continues, "to realise that there's something in it for them."
The "something" is not a new flat-screen TV or a free celebrity make-over, of course. It is the fulfilment and meaning that comes from putting something back, from being part of the local community, from making a commitment. And keeping it.
I'm 
© MMX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~18~RS~)
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The term flexible working for most people has usually meant longer hours for a diminishing reward on fixed term contracts that can disappear at a moment's notice. A lot of people have recently discovered the downside of being part of Britain's famous fliexible workforce.
It is this increased workload that has meant that a lot of people who used to volunteer in the community no longer do so. In the end I got fed up with having to go out again after a ten hour working day at the grindstone plus travel and then finding you have to battle against obdurate and stupid regulations devised by people with not enough to do in their work.
My family has produced three generations of scout leaders. This does not include me as I had a problem with our local scout troop which in my view was little more than a paramilitary organisation. But that was 48 years ago when conscription still dominated certain attitudes. The Scouts when properly managed can liberate young people by allowing them to think for themselves.
As for the dirty not so old men who have been caught with their hands in other peoples' trousers my now very ancient mother used to sit on the screening committee for scout leaders in our local district. There were some applicants who were quite unsuitable but they were easy to spot.
Yes, we would all like to put something back into the community but it is just not made easy these days.
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It's all too late. For decades the "progressive left" has pushed an agenda that demonises all men as potential rapists and pedophiles and the curiously sexist view that only women should be involved in child development. No wonder they are short of scoutmasters - the mere mention of the word immediately elicits winks and increased suspicion. The same issue has meant we virtually no men involved in primary school teaching and those that are have become subject to female lead bullying (which those in authority simply laugh off).
It's very sad for children that they will miss out on the perspective a male role model can give them. Interaction with adult males alongside females is essential to a child's development but this has been pushed aside in the increasingly hysterical name of child safty.
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mark,
l understand the way your thinking but believe you have the "flexible issue" wrong.
In my view and experience it is precisely the introduction of flexible working by the present government that has allowed working families the option of being able to "be there" for there children and each other plus commit to regular meetings and events.
Without "flexible working" big business would have their people working when they were most productive, with no regard for family commitments.
For example shelves in supermarkets could be filled between 9a.m until 5p.m paying the basic minimum wage. Those same people are paid the same hourly rate for working 6p.m until 10p.m because the low pay commission do not have a remit to investigate shift workers pay but the people are more productive.
The result social fallout, children are left at home alone, others miss out on events, clubs and groups. Families dont eat the evening meal together all in the interest of "profit" and of course the associated bonuses generated from cost savings for the few.
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Work is now the most important part of a human's life. Working, to pay taxes, to maintain a pyramid.
Work it out.
cheers
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As an old member of the Scouts, ATC and working with the community, another main reason for a lack of leaders - is what i call the sky tv people. There alot of people don't want to give, can't be bothered, why should i, i pay my taxes, etc.
I have met them over the year parents and locals who use scouts as a baby sitting service, won't help with lifts, time and helping at events. The kid love it and learn lots, some even come from a hard life at home push out by parent and laughed at by siblings, but you see how much they get out of it.
As a voulenteer, you do have to give up time, money and sitting in front of the TV saying some else will do it, but the rewards are great.
Also as others have said the perception of a leader adds to this akward feeling, why are you there? The west especially i think the UK has become worped, there is no postive values, only degradation, what can i get out of it, self sacrifice is now very rare. Our socity is materialistic, selfish, selfcentred and our role models in the press and media are - money, celbrities, models, sportsman, stars. Where else to young people read or learn about postive role models. If the media though about it just for a second, they may see thier affect of socity especially children. Media ask yourself who sets 'uncool', its an image a perception, who sets that media and adverts - its always about selling and making money.
just every now and again, the media cool can be flipped, like the adventurer Bear, and can give back a positive value to the real world, like Scouts. But even then like, Radio 4 this morning ask, why bother going to scouts you can do it at home. No you can't, most kids don't have the money to hang glide, or parents how have the knowledge to light a fire or chop wood, many are not allowed to get dirty, most want to meet new friends, most want an adventure away from home and school.
The real role models / heros of all parts of our society are the hard working voulteers. Please lets celbrate not demean.
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Let's also not lose sight of the endless bureaucracy thrown at those who volunteer. First off is the CRB check, which someone has to pay for. Then there are rules intended to protect children but which are totally impractical to actually obey, like never being alone with a single child. What is a leader supposed to do at the end of the evening when the penultimate child has been collected? If the leader is taking children home after an activity one of them has to be the last one home, yet according to rules as soon as the penultimate child is dropped off the leader is not allowed to be in the car with the last child.
Then comes the fact that most employers expect staff to work late at short notice if situations demand. That's all well and good but, like the article says, it's hard to have much of a life if you never know what time you'll be leaving work. It's one thing to phone a friend to reschedule meeting them for a pint after work but another thing entirely to phone 20 parents to explain that scouts is off tonight.
And on top of all that is the hysteria associated with even the suggestion that something might not be 100% right. It's one thing to protect children, and another thing entirely to allow an innocent man's reputation to be destroyed because of a misunderstanding or a malicious allegation.
Frankly I don't know that I would be willing to put myself in a position where I was expected to lead children and guide them, but upsetting the wrong child could result in the destruction of my reputation and the career-threatening consequences of that. Especially when I'm expected to do all of the above out of a sense of charity.
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Scouting is "everyday adventure" for everyone involved. Except maybe the committees.
The best groups have well run sections with more than one leader in each (beavers, cubs & scouts), a good committee backing them up and a good group scout leader giving backup. You should also be supported by the parents in the group. It's policy in our group to ask parents to arrive five minutes before the end on a rota to hand out letters, make sure everyone leaves with everything they came with etc. If you need someone to stay around for 5 minutes whilst the last kid is collected it's not usually a problem.
The policies are common sense, they are not unworkable.
As a leader, you receive training and an advisor so you can deal with every situation. You also have a wonderful telephone number you can call with any question - I recently rang to ask about whether any group had recently had any problems with errecting treehouses and got an answer within half an hour.
And at the end of it all occasionally you'll get a story come back to you about how you've made a difference. One particular childs parents came in to tell us how a drop out kid had suddenly picked up grades, gained a sense of responsibility and had taken an interest. He talks about nothing else than camping.
Flexable hours only cause problems if you only have one leader. If you're running a good programme, have good kids who want to learn scouting skills you can soon convince a parent to join up.
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Bear grylls? Is it April 1st?
And what's wrong with the woodcraft folk? I think we need the full market analysis before we jump to conclusions Mark ;-)
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NEWNHB has it 100% right - as a single man in his 40s I have lots of skills, experience and knowledge to offer but you wouldn't be able to pursuade me to ever work with children. Ever. Not because they are horrid little spoilt oiks - only very few are, the parents are far worse - but because of all the associates fear and ignorance, which our betters in authority (oh, how the mighty are falling...) have done their best to use as a devisive and controlling tactic.
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When will the Scouting Association ditch its ridiculous discrimination against those who do not subscribe to belief in god?
Atheists are banned, while Catholics and Evangelicals and those of other religions that discrimination against women are welcomed.
It is no wonder that there is still a whiff of prejudice and conservatism lingering in an organisation that refuses to use the talents and services of men and women whose commitment is to reason and evidence based thinking on all issues.
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Work work work and now were told an extra 12 years of work will extend your health and reduce the risk of altzeimers by 1 year. Why are we told this when it could have just as easly been run a social oragnisation for 12 years and reduce the onset of altzimers by 1 year. :)
born breed and educated to be a slave to the wage (taxman).
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On top of the flexible working a major problem is the long commutes most people have.
Even with normal hours finishing at 6, then having an hour commute you would get home at 7 which is after most cub / scout meetings start, add in a bit of traffic and you can never be certain what time you'll get home.
My mum was a cub leader for about 20 years and a number of fantastic enthusiastic leaders had to leave because they couldn't guarentee getting to the scout hut in time.
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FOr goodness sake! The whingeing on this blog is so depressing. I helped out last night at Beavers. It was great. We built two turf cut out fires in the Beaver leader's garden, we made dough twists and scoffed them down with strawberry jam. The Beaver Leader is married to Akela. There were two parents (one male, one female) and a venture scout (female) on hand to help. THe children had a wonderful time. Thanks to flexible working, I collected my boy from school, took him to the office for 30 minutes to see Mummy at work, at 5.30 we were in the Beaver leader's garden. I couldn't have done this without flexible working. I checked my blackberry once in the Beaver hour and then caught up on a little work once the children were in bed. I'm with Bear on this one: scouting teaches children that there are solutions. There are loads of solutions for people genuinely wanting to help out with scouts. Sensible employers measure most jobs in terms of productivity, not presenteeism. Getting CRB checked is not hard. I filled out one, not difficult, form and got the all clear a few weeks later.
The one thing I'd say is that if people do want to whinge on about how hard it is to do anything like getting CRB checked, or addressing your work responsibilities at the same time as doing something worthwhile for your children and society as a whole, or spend their time obliquely knocking women or those of other religious faiths or no faith at all, then those people lack the positive attitude that I'd want my kids to experience in any role model, male or female, whom they came across, scouting or otherwise.
I don't notice religion at my children's scout groups (I have one in cubs and one in Beavers). I'm an atheist myself and my kids are tending that way - but I'll let them think it out for themselves. But going to church for remembrance day with scouts in my mind is a good use of an awe-inspiring public building in a communal act. I certainly don't mind the children being exposed to any number of religions or lack of it through scouts.
I think we could do with a bit more public buy-in into scouts. It can become cliquey and parents can feel they can't volunteer because they don't have the fire-building, knotting and other cliched skills.
SCouting gropus could actually help those parents with longer working hours by becoming part of after school care provision.
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P.S. Mark, your first question to Bear was a journalistic one which is sort of fine because it's your job, but I do hope your second question was "How do I volunteer?". Would be nice to know what percentage of BBC employees volunteer for scouting support and measure that against the population as a whole.
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Mark, flexible working is a two way street. If employers are willing to allow flexible working in the workplace, or in some circumstances, work from home, then the employee can surely be flexible too.
It cannot work for everyone - it very much depends on the job we have, but for my part, I can work from home, I can work from the office, the only stipulation is that I begin my working day no later than 10am and end it no earlier than 4pm (core hours) and commit to at least 7.5 hours per day. Within that framework there is plenty of scope to fit additional activity into my day.
I must admit though, looking at voluntary work, some of the issues caused by the stigma of men working with children does bother me. I agree that kids need moral guidance. Allowing them to grow up with only their street life as experience is not good enough. Scouts, the Cadet Corps of the Army, Navy and RAF, activity groups and clubs all have a part to play - an important part, but part of the reason, in my opinion, for the lack of male volunteers in this area of life comes down to the way British society views us.
As a single man in my 40s, I would be viewed as suspicious. As a single gay man in my 40s, I would be likely be tarred with only one type of brush before I could even put my case. It would not matter that I have neighbours who leave me to look after their kids, trusting me because they know me. It would not matter than I served my country in the RAF, and then with the Police. I would be viewed in one colour, and a pretty dirty colour at that.
That is one downside, but on the whole, I agree - flexible working, if done properly, can be beneficial to everyone. Think of it this way. When we were regimented by time - start work at 9, finish at 5, tea by 5.30 and a game of darts at 7, it was because our thinking was regimented. A place for everything and everything in its place. Times change Mark, and now, if we want to get the best from a flexible working life, we need to implement a flexible home life to accommodate it.
With employers being flexible, we as a workforce, if able, could commit to say, one night per week, to start work a little earlier, and so finishing a little earlier, so enabling for that one night be commit to a fixed time for some voluntary activity.
So, flexible working is a good thing. It helps on both sides of the workplace fence, but as for making something out of that for the many men of this country who have something to give, gay, straight, married, single, each on their own merits, some social acceptance is needed, and common sense applied. Until the stigma of all men being sex-pests is destroyed, we won't recover from this downturn.
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There seems to be a certain paranoia among people who feel they would like to volunteer, but also feel that they would be stigmatised for doing so. There also appear to be some folk who denigrate Scouting for what it used to be, rather than what it is today.
It's rather different when you look at it from the inside. You get to work with some fantastic fellow adults who have the well-being and development of young people at heart. These adults might be politically right- or left-wing politically, atheist or evangelist, Buddhist or Muslim, male of female, straight or gay. I have met with, and worked with, all these and more in my 23 years as a Scout Leader (there is no such thing as a Scout Master, nor has there been for 42 years!), and I can honestly say that other than bringing up my own family, they have been the most-fulfilling years of my life.
Scouting is an adventure, and the recent twin appointment of Bear Grylls as Chief Scout and Wayne Bulpitt as UK Chief Commissioner goes a long way to assuring a successful future of the greatest youth movement in the world. To be part of the adventure, google your local scout district and send that e-mail. It will be the best move you ever make, whatever your working hours!
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Thanks Ewanwhoelse. I absolutely agree. And I'd like to add, as a single parent working mother that some of the best male role models my boys have are the electic collection of men - not all straight Christians! - who help out at our local scout and cub group.
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My son has recently joined Beavers and I am keen to support him anyway possible, it is very well for Mr Grylls to seemingly brush aside the problem of working today but it still remains.Myself I work for the emergency services and cannot committ to one fixed day a week because of my shift pattern - some days I would be there others not - my partner also works.We have mortgages to pay unfortunately - One suggestion I have cannot community work such as this be treated in a similar vein to TA service in so much as employers try and give us time to attend ? It is in our own interests is it not to develop the youth of today into the responsible adult of tomorrow ! The government harps on about promoting parenting etc etc but doesnt put its money where its mouth is.
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I agree with Cleverroutemaster. When I look at CVs, I prioritise those which have some community involvement/voluntary angle on the grounds that these people are more likely to have a good attitude. Maybe more employers could do the same.
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#10 Profane Jane
I don't know where you got that idea from.
I was in Beavers, Cubs & Scouts and none of our leaders were overtly religious while many were atheists, we never had religion mentioned other than at major religious festivals (Easter, Divali etc) and when we went to Church as part of the annual St George's Day Parade.
The Scouts are a multi-faith group that accept people of all faiths as well as those without any faith in God(s).
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#16. At 5:11pm on 20 May 2009, ewanwhoelse wrote:
There seems to be a certain paranoia among people who feel they would like to volunteer, but also feel that they would be stigmatised for doing so. . . . It's rather different when you look at it from the inside.
Thanks for those comments. It's more than refreshing to hear (read) someone praising the benefits of a diverse community - not just those harpings of living the good Christian way.
I have high morals, placed in my head by my parents and upbringing in general, but the religious tones of my youth were few - limited to the Weddings and Funerals mostly, and the odd mention of Harvest Festival when I was at infant school :-).
The highest moral or ethic, I believe, that you can indoctrinate our youth with is to understand others beliefs even if you can't accept them as your own.
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I always felt scouts and brownie were more middle class a bit Hitler youth movement and the fact that you had these old people dressed like children with strange names as leaders and I was not suprized when we had child molesters applying for the job many middle class people do not think that these people come from their sort well they do. It was easy with those parents who had had six years of war this is why these things were popular along with youth hostelling another German idea. We are not so naive now and we have few kids so we want to keep them and not end them to be taught how to love war and to take orders from strangers.
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DeniseCullum222
Wow !
I grew up on a council estate in Merseyside in the 80s/90s and I'm about as working class as you can get yet I and many of my working class friends were members of our local Scouts, over half of the Scouts at our troop had unemployed parents and many were from single parent families too.
The idea of the Scouts being a Middle Class group is about as far wrong as you can get, everyone is welcome at Scouts, regardless of their family background or wealth. They also go to great lengths to ensure that every Scout has access to all of the equipment needed to take part in all Scouting activities as well as subsidising camps and activities for children from deprived areas.
I was lucky to take part in many activities as a child I'd never have been able to afford were it not for the Scouts.
While Baden Powell based the structure & uniform on the Army it is not a way to teach children to love war and I find you comparing it to the Hitler Youth to be a very ignorant & distasteful statement.
The Scouts organise many international activities, such as Jamboree's and pen pall's to encourage friendships between people of different nationalities.
The Scouts is a family, even though I'm grown up and no longer a Scout I still consider all Scouts to be my brothers (and now sisters too), regardless of their nationality.
The Scouts have also gone to great lengths to uncover any cases of abuse, there's no collusion or cover up going on as we've seen in the Church.
If I have children I will try my best to encourage them to join Cubs & Scouts as I think it is one of the best thing parents can do for their children.
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#Secretariat:
[#10 Profane Jane
I don't know where you got that idea from.
I was in Beavers, Cubs & Scouts and none of our leaders were overtly religious while many were atheists...]
Quote:
"It is possible for young people to be unsure of the
existence of God and remain a Member of the
Association, but it is not possible for an atheist to
hold a Warrant as a Leader."
From "Fundamentals of Scouting", current version, dated Apr 04.
Even Associate Leaders, who are not required to make the Scout Promise, are required to "help young people to apply the Principles [of Scouting] in their everyday lives."
The relevant Principle here is No3, Duty to God.
"The spiritual development Scouting seeks for its
Members is encouraged by:
Developing personal discipline and training
Being involved in co-operative activities
Understanding the world around them
Creating a more tolerant and caring society
Discovering the need for prayer and worship,
both personal and shared."
Now while I am right alongside the first four, I am unable to go anywhere near the fifth without being a hypocrite, so being a uniformed member is, unfortunately, not on the cards.
However, this doesn't stop me being involved with the Scout movement - both my children are members, and I am made welcome by the Leaders. I was recently asked at camp, while sitting round the fire late in the evening, "You spend a lot of time helping the group - why aren't YOU a Scout Leader?"
This rule is why...
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U3254382
I stand corrected !
To be honest I had no idea about this, as I said, our Scouts were about as Secular as it's possible to be and we never had God or Religion mentioned other than painting eggs at Easter and the annual service at the end of the St Georges day Parade.
We also had several leaders who were atheist/agnostic and they always shared their views with us if the subject ever came up in conversation.
We certainly never engaged in prayer or worship and the only Scouts I knew who did were in a troop that was based in a Church.
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are pre-moderated. What does this mean?
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I'm 60+, and had a couple of spells in the youth club service some years ago. I gave it up one night, having ejected a hooligan, for the second time, when I realised I was wide open to being "done", for God knows what. I'm married, father of four, grandfather of two, straight, no record, cleared by the police, but Hariett was obviously out to get me, and any other idiot like me, only out to help. Obviously, to make matters worse, I'm male. Don't do it. Don't get involved. You're asking for trouble, and you'll never win against the bolsheviks.
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