Baby P - It will happen again
We must never let it happen again".The phrase has been used again and again over the past week as more grisly details of the brief and tragic life of Baby P emerge.
But, sadly, it will happen again. In fact, it happened last night. And it will happen tonight and tomorrow too.
Baby P is not some isolated and extraordinary case of bestial cruelty. Small children are being beaten, tortured, abused and assaulted in Britain every hour of every day.
Looking at the figures for England and Wales, police recorded 5,300 cases of child cruelty and neglect last year. Ninety people were jailed for cruelty to children - 38 of them women.
These are not incidents of a clip round the ear to which police over-react. We are talking broken limbs, smashed skulls, cigarette burns and worse.
And the numbers are only for those the police get to know about. Academic studies into the experiences of children suggest a truly horrifying level of abuse.
One piece of work published in 2002 found 16% (1 in 6) of almost three thousand 18-24 year-olds reported suffering "serious maltreatment" at the hands of their parents or carers as children. If the figure bears any relation to the general picture, it suggests millions are suffering severe physical maltreatment every day. Millions.
Asked about sexual abuse,1% said they were abused by a parent or carer, 3% by another relative during childhood and 11% by people known but unrelated to them.
The NSPCC calculates that a million children are being sexually abused at any one time.
Last year there were 27,900 children on the protection register or panel as it is now called.These are young people and babies that social workers deem to be at significant risk of harm.
But not all are rescued in time.
Child protection inspectors in England wrote to the government in July and revealed details of cases where local authorities had notified them of the possible need for a 'serious case review'.
"Between 1 April 2007 and 31 March 2008, 281 serious incidents were recorded, which related to 189 deaths, 87 incidents of significant harm or injuries and five incidents where the outcome for the child was not known, for example where a child was reported to be missing following a serious incident."
What makes the Baby P case different is not the cruelty. Not the fact that he died. The difference is that we have been confronted with the details.
The pornographic descriptions of his terrible injuries juxtaposed with the innocent little blue-eyed boy staring up into the face of an adult are almost too much to bear. But many, apparently, want this detail.
Perhaps by focusing and obsessing about one ghastly incident, we find it easier to ignore the pervasive and insidious nature of society's dark side.
Child abuse can be boxed up in a carton marked 'Baby P'. Inquiries will be conducted. Officials will face sanction. Systems and protocols will be tweaked. Fat reports will be written.
We have been here before and the consequence of a roll call of individual scandals has been child protection procedures that are already regarded as among the best in the world. However counter intuitive it might seem, other nations come to see how we do it and copy our systems.
That's not to say it is job done. Of course it should never happen again.Tragically, it will.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~38~RS~)
Comments
Sign in or register to comment.
It will continue to happen, yes, unfortunately human nature dictates that some of us are inherently evil, and we as a species shall just have to live with that.
However, I do believe that reversing the current welfare policy that encourages people to breed without responsibility may at least make a small difference. Likewise if public services were allowed to do their jobs instead of chasing targets and statistics, which serve no purpose other than for politicians to chase headlines and apportion blame.
Complain about this comment
This whole thing makes me sick to be a human being. Hang those who are found guilty and install some sense of fear from even thinking about doing it in the first place.
Softly-softly DOES NOT WORK!
How many more times are "nothing new labour" going to drone out the stock phrases just to win votes when there are peoples lives on the line?
Complain about this comment
Parental licence. It's the only way.
You can't drive a car without a licence. You can't even watch a television without a licence.
Yet you can happily raise a child - several if you want - and do unto them whatever you deem reasonable in your own head.
Yes it's "big brother" or "nanny state" intervening, but why not?
Responsible adults intervene in other peoples lives when they see wrong doing on a small scale all the time.
So why not allow the government to intervene on this subject when there is wrong doing, or potential thereof - as they already happen to do in many other areas anyway?!!
Complain about this comment
Good for you, Mark.
Complain about this comment
I agree entirely with mark Easton on this subject.
Complain about this comment
"Perhaps by focusing and obsessing about one ghastly incident, we find it easier to ignore the pervasive and insidious nature of society's dark side."
The sad truth is that the general public is NOT aware. The 'shocked' public reaction to this story shows the general ignorance and naivety surrounding the more heinous crimes in our society. People should be confronted with the awful, heart-wrenching facts--wake up--get out of your little bubbles and demand something be done.
Punishment for such offences needs to be reevaluated. Children at risk are, more often than not, not wanted except as a meal-ticket. Let's get away from the PC nonsense of this issue and deal directly with the root of this social problem. Firm consequences for offenders--not a paltry 14 years for 8-plus months of torture--removal of abused children and placement/adoption into loving homes. Just because a person is a biological parent does NOT mean they are fit to be one.
Yes, it will happen again but, with some hope, Baby P's death will galvanize some part of the public into action and put pressure on government to finally do right by these defenceless little children.
Complain about this comment
And something you don't mention, but which is also inevitable ... someone's going to be writing 'The story of Baby P' aren't they, it'll be there on the shelves right by 'A child called 'It'' and the rest of the abuse-porn genre that is currently so popular. I expect it'll be a best seller.
Complain about this comment
Of course we know that social workers et al did not kill Baby P.
Much of the rage directed against Haringey Social services is due to people's impotent frustration with the failures of managers who sit at desks rather than venture on to the front line, who hide behind 'procedure' and box-ticking, who never seem to be accountable and who scapegoat junior staff to cover their own backs. We've seen it at the highest political level and see it happening at Town Hall level too.
The top Social Services managers are on extremely good salaries and benefits - and not only are they seen to be not doing their job of protecting children, they appear to be 'getting away with it'.
We are all sick of MPs, ministers, civil servants, NHS managers, bankers - the list is endless- enjoying salaries beyond the dreams of most people and not doing the job properly. And instead of being sacked without a reference they move with bonuses to other well-endowed positions and remain incompetent or even dangerous.
The sting would be drawn if occasionally - just sometimes - someone who failed was sacked and did not pick up 'compensation' and found the door to other similar positions closed to them. It would concentrate minds wonderfully.
If senior managers were more involved with the day-to-day problems facing the juniors, instead of pontificating from a desk, it might help. Had Shoesmith and senior social workers visited Baby P's sordid 'home' and smelled the stench of faeces and filth, they might have seen things differently, realised what really goes on behind the endless paperchase of reports and memos; a day spent toiling with a junior instead of at an expenses-paid junket.
Look into the face of this defenceless child. It is the face of unnecessary, preventable suffering. It could be the face of an abused neglected elderly person in a hospital or nursing home. Or a pensioner whose life-savings have been decimated.
It is the vulnerable who pay for the gross mistakes of these protected, well-rewarded incompetents. It is this which fuels the rage.
Complain about this comment
Child abuse stories shock everyone. As an adult who was abused as a child and managed to escape with at least a little sanity, it's doubly shocking. And while I'll be at the forefront of those crying out for a way to stop this hienous brutality on the weak and innocent, I'd also advise caution.
It's too easy to see child abuse round every corner and I have vivid memories of all those families WRONGLY accused in one of the last big social-worker pushes to save kids from abuse. Those people are still suffering because this is such an emotive subject and human nature being what it is, there will always be mutterings of "there's no smoke without fire" etc. Because - to coin another overused metaphor - "mud sticks".
You better believe I'm all for new ways to catch child abusers BEFORE they kill, maim or otherwise seriously harm those in their care (I wish someone had been there for me as a child...) - but we also must think of mistakes which can also "abuse" innocent families for the rest of their lives.
This time, let's temper new measures with a bit of reason, please. I still live with the scars of my own child abuse but at the same time, I'm loathe to see innocent families suffer just because "mud sticks".
Complain about this comment
How no one did anything is beyond pathetic just goes to show where peoples prioroties are!!!! That poor little boy his whole life ahead of him. The mother and her partner and lodger should all get the maximum sentence i hope they can live with themselves and what they have done,shame the death penalty doesnt exist in this country!!! Another case of proffesionals not doing there jobs. How many times does something like this have to happen innocent lives lost before someone does something.
I feel sick to think people can be so cruel i hope they burn in hell for what they did to that beautifull boy
rest in peace sweet baby p xx
Complain about this comment
With a child dying every week in Britain due to neglect and cruelty, there has to be something done. The majority of these children are not even on the Child Protection Register. I think it is absolutley criminal. Within today's society, we question everyone - we are taught not to trust anyone, so why should social work trust parents who's children are repeatedly injured and at hospital? I completely agree with the parental licence. It absolutley sickens me to think that someone could hurt anyone in this way, let alone an innocent young child. It's such a difficult thing to get your head around. These people should all rot in hell.The "justice" system in this country is pathetic - jail for fourteen years? They'll proably be out within 10 on good behaviour. The social workers and doctors have also got to take some blame for this - it's absolutley disgusting. It breaks my heart to read these articles and think of how that poor child suffered during his short life. Where were the rest of his family? Where were these so called 'whistleblowers' that informed Social Services? AND Where was this 'family friend' that knew of his tortue? It's disgusting, he was failed by everyone who came into contact with the poor little mite, I would have rather faced kidnapping charges to save that poor little boy and get him out of there than protect my own skin! These kids need us.
Something needs to be done! Someone need to be held accountable and all 3 should be charged with murder because they all took part in his toture, it was only a matter of time! They are sick people!
Complain about this comment
sadly you are correct but you also forget that this has happened before and social services promissed changes to protect children to increase well they increased in ineptitude, negligence and very poor choices.
i know of a telford case that one 16 year old was in care and his social worker thought the best place for him was a room above a pub where he was raped and illtreated by the landlord and the child had to suffer, his complaints went on deaf ears he asked his mother for help but her hands were tied by social services.
now a few years older that child is sadly a drain on resources and into drugs etc his mother should have been given a chance with her children rather than social services blocking any move towards bringing them together.
they brainwashed her sons into believing she was harming them and still social services refuse to reveal the truth.
her case was directly a result of social services failing a family prior to her case.
sadly social services child section is corrupt, inept and so highly minded they fail to follow the rules they are due to respect.
you can see why so many children are in harms way these days, social services needs a serious overhaul and streamlining,
with corrupt and inept social workers removed and brought to book for there crimes.
Complain about this comment
For once a considered rational piece of journalism on this subject. Unfortunately, owing in situations like this one social workers are often confronted with moral dilemmas on a grand scale. In reality all that we can do as a society is to ensure that the welfare of the child, in child protection case is always paramount and that it is better to err on the side of caution rather than fail to intervene with the truly horrendous effects, evidenced by cases such as this. In the vast majority of cases social work is primarily crisis management. If politicians are serious about preventing this tragedy from being all too swiftly replicated social work departments must be adequately funded and systems introduced which allow for the intervention by agencies at a far earlier stage, than is feasible at present.
Complain about this comment
The best post I have seen on the matter goes to the heart of us as a society. These evil people have lived in the society that everyone of us has help create.
If you support abortion you are part of a group that says we can decide whether something lives or something does not live.
If you support capital punishment you are saying it is OK to kill something that has done something we don't like.
You may be someone who thinks it is OK for parents to slap children if they misbehave.
You may regard some violent video games as harmless fun, or see boxing as great entertainment.
I'm not entering into a debate whether these are right are wrong, but these are actions or attitudes which are widely accepted and lead to inflicting pain or even death.
Now the vast majority of those who believe in abortion, capital punishment etc would never hurt a baby BUT if you have a society where some forms of violence are accepted it is not surprising that a minute minority will find it easier to believe that knocking children about isn't all that bad.
Complain about this comment
The UK is not unique. Only yesterday three young men were sentenced in New Zealand (only to 10 years in jail) for the prolonged torture of a 3 year old which included putting her in a tumble drier and switching it on and hanging her on a clothes line. She died from being kicked in the head.
Is this just Western societies which treat small children in this way? What kind of societal values are we inculcating?
Complain about this comment
This inevitability you refer to; is it that bad people will abuse children, or is it inevitable that the same children will also be completely abandoned by the social protection systems designed to remove them from harms way once the abuse has been identified.
Child abuse is unfortunately impossible to prevent, inadequate people will always become parents.
However it does not follow that abuse will lead to serious injury or death, unless we have a system that allows it, which ours obviously does.
Complain about this comment
Reading about this tragic story as an ex-pat, it paints a sorry picture of the UK today. When we read of the group of individuals in this house and the dysfunctional lifestyle they had, we have to realise that many misguided social policies
over the years have lead to this point. As many have said, removing the current incentives for single mothers to have children is a start. It has lead to a breakdown in family life, serial boyfriends who harm children, etc. I suggest no child welfare benefits for anyone after the second child, no moving to the top of the housing queue for having children. These are tough measures but the current system is a mess. Children are the terrible victims as many are not wanted, except as a means to cash and housing. I have read some blogs where people mention voluntary sterilisation with a cash incentive, perhaps after 2 children. As someone who was always very PC and a lifelong Labour voter, I can hardly believe that I now think this to be an inspired idea! If people are having children for cash, pay them not to have children! My views have changed so much, because I can now see what harm we have done to children with decades of liberal and PC policies, leading to the destruction of the traditional family unit and lack of accountability. These policies include a complete lack of adequate sentencing by the Courts in the case of child killers because of the murder/manslaughter dilemma. Please, please campaign for a change in the law to bring about a separate charge for the unlawful killing of a child, which takes into account the prolonged cruelty inflicted, and has a severe sentence. This new law was brought in recently in Australia to avoid the nonsense of people getting off on manslaughter charges here with a minimum of 5 years! The current UK law is a nonsense, regarding having to prove whether murder was the intention or not. Is the much lesser manslaughter sentence really justified in these horrific cases? At the very least these people deserve 25 years. Other changes should include child benefit being linked to the welfare of the child, meaning compulsory visits to child welfare clinics, home visits by child health nurses etc. Social workers are too distracted by parents and other issues to focus on the children during the visits, so dedicated child health visitors are needed. I hope that everyone concerned about this case joins forces to form some organisation that campaigns to change the many policies that have left children so vulnerable and at risk in the UK today. So much can be done. It requires some tough action but surely
we see now that things cannot go on like this. In memory of this baby and and all future abused children, we must make the changes. May children become valued and cherished in society again, and may every child in Britain be a wanted child.
Complain about this comment
Another change which may help children at risk: please can the authorities/police or whoever put all people (including children) accused of torturing and harming animals onto a database. Studies show time and again that children/youths who do this often graduate to harming people. If the mother's boyfriend in the Baby P case had been checked against this database, perhaps it would have been a red flag to social workers, or at least the police involved, that any children in the house were at risk from this man, who was prosecuted for torturing small animals as a youth. That is, of course, if Social Services had done their job and known exactly who was living in the house. It is essential that in future they know of all occupants, especially when dealing with a child at risk. Families should have to give details of all occupants, and know that they face a fine or prison sentence if they lie about this. Yet another aspect which went unchecked and could have saved the life of this baby.
Complain about this comment
Matt, an excellent article.
Having worked for local authority for many years, and having worked with social services, they have an impossible job. They are understaffed, and the decisions which seem crystal clear in hindsight, are very difficult to know. Taking children away and into care is a serious matter, and one which opens up a whole new set of concerns.
Also, the number of agencies involved severly complicates matters. When informaiton is being passed between 5 overworked agencies, who all think differently about the best way to manage the situation, is it any wonder things fall through the gaps?
Schools, the NHS, the police and councils need to work together. There is already legislation for this, the crime and disorder reduciton act more than covers this obligation for information sharing. The problem is that there is no one method for storing information, or one database for passing informaiton. This is how the Soham case slipped through the gaps. If an offender spells their name incorrectly, their record will not be picked up.
Government needs to invest in the IT and database systems that will make this informaiton sharing possible. People on the register for any reason (ie vulnerable, offender, at risk) need to be identifyable no matter which borough they move to. For this to happen, we need a single identifyer number that cannot be faked.
And, people at the top must be held accountable. Whilst I really do have some sympathy for Haringay officers and the doctor who missed the broken spine, for this time must be hell for them as well, without accountability for outcomes and not just targets, this will continue to happen as people meet the target and miss the point.
And finally, the public who are all so outraged need to make sure they do not conveniently choose not see the signs in their neighbours. This is happening in an estate or a flat near you. If you saw it would you report it? I think the people who protest the loudest, especially for some kind of punishment for all involved, should really ask themselves whether they would be prepared to shop their next door neighbour for a bruise on a child.
Complain about this comment
Baby P will happen again, it happened 8 years ago with victorier, from the same County as well, shows they really haven't learnt, and saying sorry isn't good enough i mean can the dead hear? NO they can't, and why hasn't baby p got a name yet!?! didn't the bastards that "raised" him even give him a name or something!?! even those three with the capacity of nothing surely can think of a name for the lad, they were clever enough to create him!! why wasn't this baby taken from its abusers!?! what use is it sticking a child on the at risk then is left to die because thats what Haringy did they left him to die and i really hope that plays on the people who could've helped but didn't's conscience if they have one - lessons should be learnt, but they werent after the death of a baby girl 8 years ago so why will they be this time!!?! humans seem to have the inability to learn from their mistakes!!!! a persons life means very little to some people obviously!!
Complain about this comment
Yes, it will happen again. And again. And again. I was part of a committee of elected members in my town who put together a response to the government over the "Every Child Matters" (Victoria Climbie). We were faced with agencies who refused our request to provide their input, those who refused to answer questions etc. When the report was made, the country was promised that we would have a full joined-up child services where all evidence was linked together to be accessed by any of the relevant agencies such as GP, psychologist, hospital, social services, police, CAFCASS (court welfare service), Connexions, LEA, and that a case like Victoria Climbie could never happen again.
And here were are again, another half a dozen years down the line and still muttering the same platitudes that it should never happen again. Social services have budgets which tightly constrain them meaning sometimes they may be unable to afford to take a child into care for their own safety without being castigated by the government for overspending their budget. We have a social services and family court system who mutter about a child being with its parents as being the best option - no it isn't, not always! Blood does not always equal good, and it is about time the system recognised that.
We have resident parents allowing harm to happen to their children or causing harm themselves to the children. We have children being sent to violent absent parents at weekends, regardless of the history of abuse towards the child from that parent. It is not just every child that is murdered through this, it is every child that pees itself in terror on Friday afternoons at the thought of the weekend of abuse ahead from an absent parent - and according to some teacher friends of mine, that is not just one or two isolated cases. It is every child that breaks down at school because they are too scared to go home to the parent they live with because of what violence and abuse is waiting for them. It is for every child who is killed by the resident parent or their lover because the child is now "cuckoo in the nest" and in the way of a new relationship, or by weekend dad who wants to get back at his ex by killing the children. Those deaths go by at over 100 a year and we never even notice the other 99 that may have happened in the twelve months before this came out.
The problem in this country is we don't listen to the child. We are too busy demonising them. We are too busy categorising them as being the "property" of a parent instead of recognising them as a human being in their own right. Having a child is the biggest privilege in life, and if their family, parents and blood relatives don't appreciate the gift they have been given, then another family should be found who will appreciate it.
Social services have problems rehoming the children they do take from violent parent(s) as no one wants to give those children another home. This is sometimes because potential adopters most often just want babies; they are not prepared to open their hearts to older children, siblings, large families etc. Everyone wants to adopt the perfect blonde-haired, blue-eyed little baby - perhaps this is why this case has caused such an uproar. An abused child needs lots of extra love and care, and may have behaviour problems because of what they have suffered and this makes potential adoptive parents walk away because they don't want the extra "hassle" of a child who has been scarred by abusive. This leaves any children taken into care are going from foster care to foster care, or remaining in a children's home until adulthood. When faced with that choice, it is a tough one for anyone to make - abused at home by a parent they love, or placed within a system where they are just a name on someone's case list.
This isn't just about Baby P, it is of the 99 like him that die, on average, every twelve months, the vast majority at the hands of their parents. The system has to change. We shouted loud for change after Victoria Climbie, then didn't chase it up; we forgot about her and got back on with our lives. British society will forget about Baby P maybe this time next week, next month or next year. We are happy to leave the lobbying and petitioning to that mysterious person known as "someone else", and turn our backs until the media pushes the next big case in front of our eyes again, and we salivate once more, relishing the chance to blame everyone else except the society we created. We have our knee-jerk reaction that quickly evaporates back into apathy, and we turn our backs on a chance to demand change that could save the next Baby P and the others like him.
Complain about this comment
Mark, you mention that UK child protection is thought to be some of the best in the world, with much lower death rates than many countries, but take a look at this:
UK child abuse deaths could be double official figures, says UN
Press Association
guardian.co.uk, Thursday September 18 2003 02.33 BST
Article history
The number of children killed in the UK through abuse or neglect is more than twice as high as official records suggest, according to the United Nations Children's Fund (Unicef).
A landmark study, published today, found that two children under the age of 15 die from maltreatment in the UK each week, contradicting previous figures that credited the country with one of the lowest child abuse death rates in the world.
Full article here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2003/sep/18/childrensservices.childprotection
The gist of the article is that the UK only counts a death as being from child abuse when that it the proven cause. By comparing _all_ unexplained deaths Unicef has more solid statistics, (because obviously the criteria for deciding if a death was from abuse or not will vary from country to country).
Complain about this comment
Another quote from the article:
"A small group of countries in the Unicef league table - Spain, Greece, Italy, Ireland and Norway - appear to have an exceptionally low rate of child-abuse related deaths and lie at the top of the rankings.
But five nations - Belgium, the Czech Republic, New Zealand, Hungary and France - suffer levels of child abuse-related deaths that are four to six times higher than the average for the leading countries.
Worse still, the US, Mexico and Portugal recorded rates that are between 10 and 15 times higher than those at the top of the table."
So if the UK wants to improve, perhaps we should find out the ways Spain, Greece, Italy, Ireland and Norway handle child abuse.
Complain about this comment
Very good post that, sdys15453.
Are there any answers to the problem of adoptive parents not wanting emotionally damaged children? A woman I know pulled out of the adoption process at the last minute; she simply could not cope with the difficult behaviours of the little boy she was adopting. She didn't have any other children, she had no experience of mothering a child, let alone a damaged one, and I don't feel it's kind of anyone to blame her for not being able to cope. She tried very hard. What's the answer to that? How can adoption of challenging children be supported? There are surely ways that society can take some of the strain so that looking after a damaged child isn't so hard that even loving people are overwhelmed.
Complain about this comment
Yes, I agree: it will happen again. But could we eliminate these very extreme cases where it seems to by obvious what is happening, but nothing is done?
One issue I would raise is the training of social workers.
Much of the formal training in the universities is about 'anti-oppression' with lectures on colonialism and revolutionary leaders like che-guevara. What is the relevance of this to baby P ?
The universities also obsess on anti-discriminatory practice, fighting stereotyping etc. Is this why some social workers will leave a child with a drug abusing criminal parent but won't place a child with a foster parent who smokes? After all, how could they criticise a drug abusing criminal?
What about the pervasive view that the child is better off with their parent? Is it really true that because kids placed in care at 13 seem to do badly, that removing a little baby, before they have been damaged by their environment, and putting them with a decent family is something to be avoided? Why do so many social workers have a presumption of keeping the kid with the failing parent until disaster occurs?
It would be good to see a fairly fundamental look at the root cause of the incomprehensible behaviour we see from SOME social workers.
Complain about this comment
I am a granny I have three grandchildren and I am a hands on granny My son and daughter inlaw have three children very close together I know they cannot cope so I am there for them with money advise and hands on help even if they dont want it . My daughter inlaw some times hates the fact that I interfear but granny always knows best and as a resultIi am able to defuse arguments that could lead to abuse bad heater Rows I am there as a protector and helper to my family and I think that if all granparents stood there ground and intervened some children would be protected I have even gone round my son's house and taken my granchildren home with me to get them out of heated situation's and to give respite to there parents .Not all parents are bad they just don't know what to do and these time's are very hard for them as they have never known what its like to go without.Come on Granparents we are needed get stuck in these children of ours don't know how to cope .
Complain about this comment
Your article is exactly right! It is so sad what is happening and I think that true rememberence for baby P would for more support to the NSPCC. everyone on the facebook sites which have 16.000 people on each group all say that they want to give money to a Baby P fund but I will suggest to them to give to the NSPCC as this would be showing support and could help towards saving some other children.
Baby P is a wake up call, Like your article says it is happening all the time
Complain about this comment
I find the whole thing shocking, coming from Zimbabwe, a third world country, we do not see things like this happening. What's worse is it seems to be happening more & more frequently in the UK. There are thousands of women in the world who would love children but cannot have them, then there are women like Baby P's mother who has a lovely child and destroys it.
From what I have gleaned from stories on BBC over the past few years, especially with teeneagers, it is easier for the teenager to fall pregnant and claim child benefit than it is for them to get an education and get a job.
I hope and pray that the powers that be take a stance and try to avoid another senseless death of an innocent child who did not ask to brought into this world.
Complain about this comment
I'm not convinced by figures from the NSPCC, who if you do a little background research you'll find have done much to politicise this issue and generate something of a panic over the abuser behind every tree and under every bed. Hysterical over-reaction generally serves little purpose other than to provoke knee-jerk reactions which in themselves can be immensely harmful. in the case of the NSPCC and child protection 'industry', I would argue that by poisoning the relationships between adults and children with the taint of constant suspicion, an abused child is now much less likely to come into contact with a responsible adult who might have sensed a problem than they would 10 or 20 years ago.
I am not denying there are plenty of abused children out there, though I suspect that cases such as that of Baby P remain in the minority and neglect rather than wanton mistreatment still accounts for most. Controversial as this may sound I firmly believe that much of the problem stems from the fact that our benefits sytem, conceived with the best of intentions, now essentially pays people to have children. In the short term, and given that many of them would have trouble running a bath, nver mind a household, I'd rather see them rewarded for remaining childless. Obviously this is unsustainable and the money would be better invested in a decent education system where a good proportion of those who pass through aren't simply allowed to fall through the cracks and emerge at 16 as barely literate adults with little hope of state independence and frequently some extremely disturbing attitudes toward their fellow humans.
As regards the role of social services, I'm more convinced than ever that 'Every Child Matters' has been a catastrophic failure and needs to be abolished at the earliest possible opportunity. Far from protecting those children who are genuinely at risk, the tokenistic aims of this program have politicised parenting and redefined 'abuse' to include the most petty and ridiculous issues.
The result has been an increase in the numbers of children on at-risk registers nationwide from about 500,000 to around 4 million (hence the haystack analogy), many of whom are there because they've missed a couple of doctor's appointments or because they're slightly 'too fat' or even because their parents have reacted angrily to State intrusion and been labelled 'uncooperative. A further implication of this is the chronic lack of adoptive and foster parents as the standards have been tightened to exclude everyone from 'the obese' to those who sought help for depression 30 years ago, meaning that those in genuine danger are less likely to be found a safe alternative.
All the while public confidence in social workers is being eroded by stories of staggering arrogance and incompetence. A grandmother told her grandchildren would be adopted outside the family because she and her husband had been 'obstructive' towards council officers. A prospective adoptive couple grilled on the intricacies of their sex life. The case this week of the mother who, suffering from a mild personality disorder, was callously told to say goodbye to her kids and prepare them to be taken permanently into care, prompting her to flee with them and compounding whatever issues prompted the initial intervention. Numerous tales of moderately fat children plucked from loving homes or threatened, Damocles-like, with removal lest they gain so much as an ounce. Of course it's difficult to fully assess these cases because the nature of the UK's family court system involves a web of secrecy, injunctions and gagging orders; just one more barrier between the public and a service which should in the first instance be there to help not punish.
Complain about this comment
Well said, Mark. There is no harm in putting the Baby P case into a wider context.
However, whilst there is no argument that child abuse goes on all over the place and has been for years, the issue with the case of Baby P is that once again in Haringey we have a case of truly awful violence leading to a painful life and an unnnecessary death.
The Victoria Climbie affair ended with the social workers on the ground being blamed. I felt at the time that this was quite unfair as they were young and not fully supported in the field. There was clearly something not right in the organisation but this was swept under the carpet.
Now we have the same thing happening all over again in the same authority but this time with the social workers on the ground speaking their concerns about the child and being ignored.
It would seem that the front line social workers learned something from the Victoria Climbie affair and that was to speak their mind and not be intimidated by organisational culture. Good for them!
It is a shame about the management, though.
Complain about this comment
I worked within the NHS for some years, after being in the commercial sector. There is no accountability within the NHS, and there are more managers than needed. PLUS they all get large salaries. If they cannot do their job they should be fired. Same as any other industry. Haringey have failed dismally to look after a small child. I could be on the carpet for failing to send a letter or an email. This was a childs life. They are paid high salaries. They failed. Dismally.
They should have the grace to leave.
The only way we can prevent this happening again is by setting rules. Rules about parents taking their children regularly for check ups. Rules about social services following up calls. Rules about many things. But also rules about the standard of work we can expect from within the NHS.
We need someone taking the reins of the NHS and shaking it up. If not, children will continue to pay with their lives.
Complain about this comment
A lot of this is about the mantra that children must at all costs be left with a parent. That sounds, to me, more like the property rights of the parent, not the human rights of the child!
Complain about this comment
Reform08 (comment 17) makes a lot of sense. I'm in the same group: lifelong Labour voter, campaigned for all kinds of rights, now seeing dreadful results.
We once thought that poverty and homelessness were the biggest threats to children's welfare. But now we provide housing and money to anyone with children, and ther seems to be more misery than ever. I'm starting to understand why society used to frown on pregnancy outside marriage.
It wasn't meant to be like this. The Welfare State was set up to help people through temporary problems like unemployment. Having children in order to live on benefits wasn't meant to be a career.
We pay women to have otherwise-unwanted 'benefit-children' in order to access free housing and income. This has caused so much harm over the years, as neglected children grow into abusive adults.
I know a lot of pregnancies are accidental. But with no reason to fear an unwanted pregnancy, it comes back to the same result.
A string of mother's boyfriends move through these children's lives, sometimes abusing them, sometimes abandoning them. They don't learn to make loving relationships. But there are plenty of gangs around to provide the sense of belonging they seek.
We have to take some very hard decisions here. I want this to stop happening.
One option would be to house young single mothers in good hostels, with caring staff to help them and the babies -- but not provide a flat of their own or an income for life.
We'll never stop people doing sadistic things. But we can do a great deal to reduce their access to child-victims and to increase the penalties enough to frighten them off.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Maybe the perpetrators have no idea what love is and have never been loved themselves, maybe we need more love and less sex, maybe we need better birth control as the planet is getting too crowded, children should only be allowed to be created as a result of a loving relationship, maybe babies in China get more love because they are more precious as they are only allowed one or max 2 babies, maybe mums should not necessarily always get custody, maybe custody should be shared, one week with dad, one week with mum, too many kids miss out on the love and protection from their dad, this way dads or mums could spot the way their baby has been mistreated and take steps to protect it, maybe this could be a way forward??
Complain about this comment
AustralianSusan (comment 15) mentioned the recent New Zealand case of the child put in the spin-drier who died. NZ has one of the highest rates of child abuse in the western world. Unfortunately the majority of these children are Maori, even though they are a minority of the general population. When I researched these cases a few years ago, it became apparent that the welfare system is similar to the UK, and the cases involved single mothers, unemployed boyfriends and hangers-on in the house, etc etc. The social workers seem far more reluctant to intervene than with white NZ children, because they have been taught to make allowances for cultural differences, be non-judgemental of different lifestyles etc. Informal childcare arrangements were (and perhaps still are) allowed which were not subject to the same scrutiny as general NZ childcare, and at least one case involved a childs death from abuse in this type of childcare. I'm all for cultural sensitivity etc, but when it gets to the extent that we ignore the danger to the child in the name of respecting lifestyle and cultural differences, its gone too far.
In these cases, those Maori children received less protection because of their ethnicity and that is discrimination! It is exactly the opposite of what was intended, but the result is sadly shown in NZ child abuse statistics. I doubt that the situation has changed in NZ, judging by recent cases. A previous poster mentions the same has happened here, with social workers making allowances in the Baby P case for this chaotic household, on the basis of not wishing to stereotype and judge. Yet surely we should all be held to the same standards when it comes to caring for children. Otherwise we are guilty of the very discrimination we are trying so hard to avoid! When the official report on this comes out, I'd like to know if the state of the house in the Baby P case was really as bad on regular social workers visits as is mentioned in the press, with fleas, faeces, dead animals around etc. I simply cannot believe social workers would think this is acceptable, just because people are from a different background/class or whatever. What are others views on this? Are social workers here willing to overlook this much, due to their training in anti-discrimination, political correctness etc?
Complain about this comment
Because Baby P has died I have made a personal promise to myself to be a better witness. I did not know the mother, father, stepdad or lodger but i like to think that if i had, i would have got involved. It is up to all of us to be more vigilant and do something to prevent something like this from happening again.
So many of us live right next door to people who have little regard for living decent lives and until these wrongdoers are given, if necessary repeated, reality checks they will cause suffering to young and old alike.
Would it not be better to risk the abuses or even personal injury from those that have no regard for what is decent and respectable than to simply turn a blind eye and let them think they can get away with anything?
We should all feel a part of the guilt that surrounds the Baby P tragedy and remember the pain children like him suffer will go on while we put our own safety first.
Giving money to childrens charities will help but it is brave people we need to confront todays defective members of society.
We must all help - starting now
Complain about this comment
There's been a lot of truth said here and a lot of very spot-on comments.
I would further add that first there is a necessity for us to absorb these so called 'abuse-porn' details: unless we understand the evil that some people are capable of we can kid ourselves that it isn't happening.
Secondly, much has been made at the ground level about how much time is spent filling in endless paperwork and wasted in meetings as opposed to being at the sharp end. This must surely be where the overworked/understaffed issue really arises.
The government is like any lumbering corporation, responsible ultimately to its shareholders (in this case 'the voters'). Efforts are made to only Appear to do the right thing (by ensuring statistics are good and targets are met), so the small picture - that of the individual - is lost.
What started as an admirable measure to ensure that parents are shown how to best look after their children became a target for keeping children at home.
What started as a measure for ensuring that fewer children languished in care homes became a chilling target for ensuring a set number of adoptions per year.
But where I see the biggest injustice is in this differing approach according to class. It is claimed this is encouraged to prevent prejudice against poverty, but I see a rather more sinister reason:
Damaged children who no one will want to adopt or foster are left with their under-class families, regardless of cost to the child. Target met.
(By the time these poor children are old enough to become part of the problem, it's some other government's patch).
Middleclass children meanwhile are plucked from their homes on spurious charges, their families restrained from protest by the endless procedures and red-tape of the family court system. These children are easily adopted, long before their families can prove their innocence. Target met.
I don't want to believe that those at the top actually assess the situation in such cynical terms, but I also don't want to believe that people are capable of torturing babies.
The devious criminal mind does not just operate at the bottom of society. It's more a question of those with an eye for their own gain finding a way of getting it, whether it's a cushy civil service job care of the Old Boy Network or a right to live in utter squalor whilst abusing your children at the expense of the tax payer.
It could be summed up in two words: Animal Farm; the perfect parable of why communism or even just socialism doesn't work: "We're all equal, it's just some of us are more equal than others."
And speaking of animals, those found in the conditions outlined by the various news reports are taken away. Further signs of abuse and neglect are not needed when such horrific evidence is there. No misty-eyed sentiment or allowances for class. It doesn't take a genius to see that squalid living conditions are abuse in themselves.
What's so sad in the stories I've read of middleclass families under the eye of the SS is that their very co-operation is their downfall. They think that opening up will prove their innocence, when in fact the SS are gathering evidence against them.
Meanwhile, in the underbelly of society where 90% of abuse goes on, parental co-operation is the downfall of the child as the SS are blinkered by what they see as some form of primitive flickering of care signalling that the child should stay there.
I utterly agree with main sentiment of this post: it will happen again. It is happening again right now.
I think our society has become so fractured and individuals so insular that we're unable to act as a community and police each other long before things reach the terrible situation of poor Baby P.
I just hope that the benefits system is finally overhauled, along with the social service and secretive family courts system.
Perhaps the secrecy is the worst - supposedly used here to protect the family; what a joke.
Complain about this comment
What would go a long way to sort these problems out is to reform the welfare system.
First off if your a teeneged girl and you get pregnant your parents are legally responsbile for the child until the mother reaches 18.
After that she is responsbile but at no time do they get a penny in benefits from the state.
If they can't afford the baby? Then its taken in to care.
I'm saying this in referance to teenaged single mothers but the same should apply to all families. If people had to pay for there own children then they would take the responsibility a lot more seriously and would avoid pregnancy if they couldn't afford it.
Ergo you would have far less parents who don't care about/abuse their children. It would also remove the issues we have with the numerous disturbed kids we have in society who commit all the teenaged crime.
And best of all from my point of view as a single tax payer is that i will no lnoger be forced to pay for other peoples lifestyle choices that i do get the luxury to enjoy myself.
Complain about this comment
3 MRDubya79
brrr that sent a shiver down my spine...
Of course complete human control is probably the only way to prevent this, but then we wouldn't be very human would we?
It's sad but as Mark says, it will never stop, no amount of moral outrage from the tabloids will stop people being cruel and twisted
just be thankful that, at least in British/western terms, it is now a much rarer occurence than historically
Complain about this comment
I have great sympathy for that most hard-squeezed taxpayer of all, the british taxpayer.To pump so much cash into services meant to ensure the wellbeing and safety of the most vulnerable members of soceity, only to be confronted by headlines screaming that yet again these services have failed to save a little child. No wonder the fury is palpable even in the furthest corners of the world. It is even more enfuriating to think that yes, this tragedy will happen again, no matter what new policies are rolled out by the government. And it wil happen just about anywhere, in Germany, in the Netherlands, in Belgium, in any country you care to mention. It doesn't really seem to matter just how child-protection agencies are organised. It seems to me that the only real solution to this problem is social control, that means that we all pull our heads out of the sand and stop denying that these things happen in our neighbourhoods and quite possibly in the appartment next door
Complain about this comment
Mark speaks for all of us! Bravo! yet, I can't help but thinking about the doctor's reason for not investigating Baby-P's bruises further(just because he was cranky)!?Please, please, whenever anyone notices a slight hint of child abuse, let's make it a point of investigating on the spot! that would save lives!
Complain about this comment
Ok, not everything that I write here will be relevant to the above article although I agree that this is happening NOW and will continue to do so unless changes are made.
I'm writing this as a mum who has spent the last week feeling enraged, powerless, hopeless, and devastated that any human being - in particular a defenceless child - should have endured the downright cruelty that was dealt to this poor boy.
I am enraged at the adults who had the privilege of caring for this beautiful boy and who abused it in such a repulsive fashion. Parenthood is not a right, children are precious.
I felt powerless because I could do nothing for this child. Upon reading the few articles that I could bear to (after 2 I had to stop as the pain was unbelieveable) I realised that whilst we had been living our lives as normal this child (amongst so many others) had been enduring a living hell. Maybe you think me over emotive, thats fine, but parenthood has, for me, uncovered almost primal instincts about protection of the vulnerable so its incredibly difficult to hear about these cases and not want to be as pro active as possible.
But what do you do? The child is gone and all that remains is an overwhelming sense of hopelessness that people can do this to another human being. I really lost my faith in mankind at this point.
So, everytime I look at my son (2.5yrs at xmas, loved and adored) I feel absolutely devastated that the love and security that unquestionably is my sons right and, as such, is given to him, was denied this child and God knows how many others before him, and after him.
Some peace of mind is gained by not engaging with the news - what more can be gained by reading blow by blow (literally) details of his injuries?
Plus, in trying to maintain some perspective, there are so many good people in this world who try so hard to be of help to others.
However, there still remains an issue for me of what can be done in the future to minimise the risk of this happening again - I need to not feel so powerless...
There are so many blogs here that give intelligent and rational opinions and ideas of measures that could be instigated to make changes that may have a positive impact upon child protection..
Can I, as a mum, add my own voice to these and suggest that, as a society, we ALL accept our own individual responsibility to each other.
We all need to get our backsides off our sofa's, and start engaging with, and assisting the individuals within our communities that need some help.
In addition, contribute to the NSPCC or any other charity that resonates for you. Basically, look after all those around you. I am not saying that this is going to resolve everything, but by always placing the responsibility for any social problem in somebody elses hands, we are disempowering ourselves as individuals. (BTW: I am just as frustrated and angry at the failings within Social Services as the rest of you)
I may not be able to change what has happened and what is happening right now (and this applies to any situation where people are being harmed) but I will bloody well do my bit in the future. This will not include naming and shaming, calling for the death penalty, or any other knee jerk responses that I will have missed. They won't bring this child back.
Thankyou for taking the time to read this.
Complain about this comment
Babies, toddlers, children and other vulnerable human beings have been abused, tortured, terrorised and murdered (and I am only talking about those in their own homes) for centuries. This is the very real, dark and horrifying side of human nature. We should not be surprised that it happens. We are the cruellest species on the planet, and always have been.
What angers me is the constant failure of those organisations specifically set up to combat this type of sub human outrage, who always manage to shrug their shoulders, blame workloads, and admit there are always one or two who slip through the net, "oh! and bye the way, we are very sorry"
I cannot believe that social workers can walk into a filthy home, with excrement, dead animals,fleas, lice, rats and soiled unwashed bedding.........and decide that they will work with this family within the home environment. It should have been obvious from the very beginning that everything was terribly wrong.
The other alarm bell for me was the fact that when the social worker visited the little boy for the last time he was at home, sitting in his buggy.......eh? Unless very small and asleep in their prams, children are only ever in their buggies if they are just going out or just coming in!!! and I cannot imagine the mother would have been too bothered about the little one crawling around in her filthy home.
Social services "worked" with this family almost from the beginning and there was never an improvement. How difficult can it be to work out that this family would never be a happy, loving one.
I do believe that social services are only interested in ticking the boxes, being politically correct, and falling back on the human rights farce when they have to make decisions.
Shame on everyone involved with this, and shame on all of those who are allowing it to happen all over the country today.
Complain about this comment
I think that part of the problem is that there are a lot of sad, broken adults who think that violence is good for children. For example, whenever the subject of violence towards children as punishment comes up on HYS, huge numbers SUPPORT this form of child abuse! And the lie is always that violence is "good for children". But the truth is that violence towards children always reflects the inadequacy, unhappiness and sadism of the adults, and simply produces yet more violent adults - and so it goes on. We have to start educatiing people that all violence towards children is completely unacceptible. Only then will we see and end to child murders.
Complain about this comment
This world has some sick people in it.
Holly & Jessica, Madelaine, Shannon Matthews, Baby P.
The people who did what they did to these six children should have the same done to them.
Holly, Jessica, Madelaine, Shannon, and Baby P. I don't know you personally and for at least four, possibly five, of you that chance can never be. I want you all to know that you are in the thoughts and prayers of every good person in the world.
May the lord bless you and keep you.
Complain about this comment
I have noticed the Sun has a petition for the sacking of all of those people involved in this sad sad case, i b cannot believe that that Sharon Shoesmith has not had the decency to resign and take the people who are resonsible for this terrible tragedy with her, i also cannot see why the mother and stepfather have not been named and shamed as they have no reason to get any protection from anybody let alone the courts, i recieved a text 8 days after the story broke telling me their names and address so why has nobody put there names on a site or on posters and let the public decide what happens as they showed no mercy to baby P so why should they expect any mercy themselves??
Complain about this comment
"Ninety people were jailed for cruelty to children - 38 of them women."
Nice to see someone at the bbc reporting the truth on the scale of the violent women rather than demonising men 24/7.
Of course there will be more cases.
Why? Well for one thing we have extremist feminists in the government always going on and on and on incessantly with their mantra about "violence against women and children" thus implying somehow that men are always to blame for the abuse of children.
Several cases last week (and most weeks) proved that this clearly isn't a gender issue in the slightest.
Complain about this comment
this is little unrelated but seeing as i can't post anywhere else, im putting it here - regarding websites probed over baby p posts again the perputrators are being protected whilst the victim isn't what do you think people care about? the identity of the animals who DID do it, or the victim? baby p was in that pack of wolves from day 1 til the 11th hour how can they not have done it
Complain about this comment
To busmanstewart - why do you think that more violence is going to solve this kind of problem?
Complain about this comment
Re: the police investigation into the naming of the perpetrators on websites.The BBC named them on this website in August!"
Complain about this comment
Reading the story has brought tears to my eyes several times.
It just cannot bear thinking that many children are facing this kind of treatment each day. The government should do all within its power to stop cases like this.
Complain about this comment
I was so outraged by this incidnet that I have just joined the NSPCC as a volunteer. The NSPCC is raising £50million to increase its capability to answer the million plus calls it gets from children every year, they cannot answer all the calls!!! If you feel as strong as I do, then either enlist as a fundraising volunteer or donate on their website, every pound helps. Thank You.
Complain about this comment
Come on Mark time for some tough questions
If these statistics are even partly true then this is a national disgrace.
Nu Labour seemed to move dam fast to outlaw fox hunting when it came to power all on the grounds of cruelty to a farm yard pest.
Last week that our wonderful government had found the time to publish a code of practice for pet owners, it even covered providing entertainment and mental stimulation for cats and dogs.
It advises fresh food every day but warns that an obese cat is an unhealthy cat adding that it is a good idea to give a greedy cat measured food divided up into a number of meals per day.
You have to laugh half our kids don’t even get this kind of thought or care:
Click here for the full joke
How can time and money be found for this kind of nonsense when cruelty to children is going on to this level.
Time for change, time for renewal, time for an election.
Complain about this comment
Social Services were once involved with me for issues surrounding me and my children. Without giving too much away, but still speaking from experience; Social Services seriously need to consider how they deal with child neglect and violence issues surrounding children. I also believe that they should listen to the sufferers when they cry for help, and remove them from the immediate situation to safety while child assesment issues are being carried out. I cried out for help in getting both me and my children away from the issue involved to safety and despite the fact I am a disabled parent, I was ignored and me and my children continued to be at risk. Social Services MUST learn to use the childprotection register appropriatly, if they are ever going to aviod another baby P case. They need to learn that it is not safe leaving children with carers who they suspect are harming their children. The law on Child protection should be changed, every child who is put on the register should be removed immediatly while assesments are carried out, and every parent with a bad upbringing should be assessed on her mentality and parenting skills. More baby P cases will occur if Social Services do not act now.
Complain about this comment
Baby P, his picture, keeps coming back to me time and again. I did not think, in Britain in 2008, these things happened any more, thought it was in the dark ages. Why have a child if you are not going to look after it and nurture and care for it - he did not ask to be born, but such a lovely child - born to a mother not fit to have children and in a house full of savages - what gets me is social services went back time and again to check but NO ONE did anything to save him. This is something not easily forgotten; I hope the people in that house go to jail for a very, very, very long time.
IllustriousFrisby
Complain about this comment
I suppose someone was bound to bring 'extreme feminists' into the mix, but harrietharmman misses the point. In cases like this, it is usually the man (often the stepfather/boyfriend figure) who is the prime mover. It is appalling that women stand by and do nothing, and they are of course equally to blame if they know abuse is going on and do nothing about it, but recent cases suggest that it is, sadly, mainly men who inflict abuse (including sexual abuse) on children.
I agree with many of the other comments - why get a job when you can pop out a baby and collect the benefit money? And I do not agree that the home environment is 'usually the best place for a child'. If a child is being abused or at risk of abuse, then of course the home environment is not the best place for the child - how absurd even to think that!
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I do also believe that there is, in fact, a gender issue here. Too many girls still value themselves so little that they see motherhood as their only viable option, and put their relationships with men before those with their children, because they lack the self-esteem to cope alone. Single mothers need to be much choosier about the men they allow into their lives, and - of course - should always put the welfare of their child over their relationship with a man.
I am not, by the way, a man-hater, although I am a feminist in the broader sense. I am married with two children, and my husband is a wonderful father. I waited until I was 34 before I had my first child - until I was in a stable relationship, and financially able to support a child. But I have had the benefit of a good education and loving, supportive parents - something that many children lack, and which can lead to huge problems as those children grow up and become parents themselves. Education and support for all new mothers is vital.
Complain about this comment
I do also believe that there is, in fact, a gender issue here. Too many girls still value themselves so little that they see motherhood as their only viable option, and put their relationships with men before those with their children, because they lack the self-esteem to cope alone. Single mothers need to be much choosier about the men they allow into their lives, and - of course - should always put the welfare of their child over their relationship with a man.
I am not, by the way, a man-hater, although I am a feminist in the broader sense. I am married with two children, and my husband is a wonderful father. I waited until I was 34 before I had my first child - until I was in a stable relationship, and financially able to support a child. But I have had the benefit of a good education and loving, supportive parents - something that many children lack, and which can lead to huge problems as those children grow up and become parents themselves. Education and support for all new parents, and single mums in particular, is vital.
Complain about this comment
Here's why it will happen again - people will continue to ignore obvious signs of abuse amongst their family, friends and neighbors, and continue to wait for it to be someone else's problem.
In the meantime social services will continue to be referred to as the SS as some kind of Nazi-based insult, those officers who are trying to intervene in families will continue to be accused of meddling and they will continue to be threatened with being sued anytime they try to do the jobs we are all so sure they're not doing.
Plus lets not forget the lack of suitable shelter for these kids as couples who may have previously adopted or foster now turn to their free NHS IVF, and planning for care homes is met with opposition from local residents at every turn.
Complain about this comment
As for firing the teams - there aren't enough of these people to go around as it is - how is firing a whole bunch of them going to help matters?
Complain about this comment
There are plenty of capable, pro-active and competent social care workers whom do a great job in protecting children but we do need to fire the ones who don't do a great job as they are a waste of resources and a danger to the children they are paid to protect.
Complain about this comment
We need to make a stand,
You can go to petitions.number10.gov.uk
and either create a new petition or sign an existing one. There is one asking for a public inquiry into baby P's death, under health, well-being and care section
In addition, sign the petitions dated 21/11/08 by Amy Linstrum who asks to 'increase the maximum jail term for the offence of allowing or causing the death of a Child'
Complain about this comment
Of course there will be more cases like Baby P - sadly cruelty is embedded in human nature. But there are some things that could be done to make it less likely to happen and more likely that appropriate action would be taken in time:
1) society generally needs to change its attitude to children. They are barely tolerated, especially in public places. and only if 'well behaved' and 'compliant'. If society a) welcomed children more and b) looked out for them then the climate of intolerance of 'poor behaviour' and acceptance of physical chastisement would change.
2) social work attitudes need to swing back from the prevailing attitude that 'a child is almost always better off in its own family'. This is a - valid to some extent - reaction to several notorious cases in the early 80s when children were removed en masse with little justification and also to the fact that 'looked after' children generally do less well than their peers. But the answer to that is to improve the care system, not to leave a child in danger at home.
3) children's services do need to be better resourced, both with suitably qualified staff and with cash. I work in youth justice and have formerly worked with social services depts. Especially for older children the threshold for being eligible for any kind of support, let alone removal to safe accommodation is so high as to be insurmountable in many areas. I have met girls in custody who were prostituted by their own mothers at age 12/13 yet no action was taken to protect them.
4) the move of many children's services depts to 'commissioning' all services does not serve children well. Local authority foster carers are a scarce resource and local authority residential units provide a tiny proportion of placements needed. Instead authorities have to go to private providers who are often both costly and of an inferior quality. In any event the authority has lost control over this important resource and the service provided which in turn fuels reluctance to use it, hence reluctance to accommodate the child at all. This is particularly noticeable in the small and specialised field of secure accommodation where excellent local authority providers are being shut down while substandard, expensive and much less well regulated provision is flourishing.
Complain about this comment
I think that it will happen again because there is far too much red tape as with all jobs that are based on protecting people ie police, social workers, nurses etc.
I also think as a mother of 3 that from my experience of speaking to people dealing with children that they have the qualifications but not much common sense, things that parents can spot a mile off others don't seem to notice.
If paperwork needs to be done get an admin person in and let the social workers do the practical job, all they need is a dictaphone.
Complain about this comment
This kind of crime is a result of the change in our society whereby the traditional family, and marriage, is a concept which is being discarded, in favour of a society where "partners" are replacing husbands and wives, and step-fathers are replacing natural fathers.
All the perpetrators of this kind of crime are the "partners" of one of the parents, and never the natural parent
This is a result of the so-called "sexual revolution", which had nothing to do with sex, and was a revolution effected by smug,arrogant, so-called civilised nations in the "West", and which was a programme to turn women into men, in the work-place, with equal pay and all the rest of it.
This may have been a good thing, but it spelt the end the traditional family, i.e. the end of the family.
It gave irresponsible mothers the right to keep changing partners as if they were in a game of musical chairs, or, rather, musical beds, and this led to a whole new culture wherein most adults change partners, and disregard the effect that has on their children.
Therefore it meant ever-increasing juvenile delinquency,among children spawned by these amoral self-serving adults, "partners", and divorcees, which has been followed by a neverending increase in adult crime, including all violent crimes, and the most despicable of all such crimes, violent infanticide.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Just to add to my earlier comment, I did eventually get my children back, and we are doing really well now. I never hurt my children, but found it difficult to cope in the circumstances I was in. During my investigation Social Services admitted 'A lack of funding prevented them from doing more.' Our nation is too money oriented, when really we need to be child oriented.
I'm still recieving help for postnatal deppression after having a baby 6 months ago. The case with baby p has hit me really hard. My children are well cared for, despite any issues surrounding my deppression, but I have a brilliant health visitor and a good gp helping me cope. I would never dream of harming my kids, and can't understand how anybody could.
I have been reflecting back on my past history surrounding my past violent life that led to my kids been put into care, I have the chance to look after them again now my violent ex has left, and I will never repeat that mistake again.
My children were given contact with their father during that period, despite my warnings to Social Services, it took for a police officer to get involved after one of my children was hurt during that contact, before it was stopped. This is exactly what I mean when I say Social Services need to listen. Had the police not seen the bruising on my son, he could have been dead too.
Complain about this comment
I saw the picture in the newspaper of Baby P's headstone with 'Baby P' inscribed on it.
Please can someone now explain : why is this poor child's name remains anonymous.
Anonymity in such cases is, apparently, justified to protect the interests of the child. But Baby P cannot he injured any more by the release of his name. For all he has endured, surely this little boy deserves to have his name recognised, otherwise his suffering really will have been in silence.
Complain about this comment
I absolutely agree with RickyCafe. We should know Baby P by name. It's as if we're for some obscure reason protecting the mother and boyfriend. Yet it seems to deny Baby P some of his humanity.
This too has echoes of Victoria Climbie: if people remember, she had been known by the name of another child in her lifetime. Almost the first decision made at the enquiry by Lord Laming was that she should be accorded the dignity of being known by her real name.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I have just been looking at th Baby P files in pictures on here. I am totally appaulled with the fact that crown prosecution services did not prosecute the mother back in 2007, there were very clear evidence then that this child was hurt, had action been taken then, Baby P might have been saved.
Another report I have just read was from a peadatrician. While I understand that their job is very hard, I strongly do not understand how ANY professional in this job dealing with children could so easily miss sixty bruises and a broken back as not being directed from child abuse?
I must point out here, that I have a boy with severe developmental delay, some of these problems led to me being accused of neglect as the child was not feeding well and I had seen a doctor and expressed concerns over this, and developemental milestones that were not being reached. The child was refered to peadiatrics, and had she gone through my pregnancy notes, she would have found that this child had a pre birth condition called hydrocephalus (fluid on the brain) and that it was noted to be aware of these problems occurring, she would have realized I was NOT neglecting my child. Interestingly here, I did look into this further and discovered that my particular case was caused by damages to the womb, which could have resulted from my then violent relationship.
Going back to the police, I think in order to protect our children another issue needs raising. During my time with my ex, the police were called due to him having caused violence to me, he was mentaly ill, I had evidence of bodily harm. The police said they could not do anything as it was a 'domestic violence incident.' The only thing they did was caution him, again I asked for help to be removed from the scene with my children, it was ignored. Had my pleas for help been answered and had the paedatrician, social services, and the other authorities involved listened to me, instead of moving me to yet another area where I and my kids were attacked all the time. My mental health would have been saved, my kids would have not had to go in care while I recovered from severe mental issues.
I understand what a hard job these people have, but that really is no excuse to let a vulnerable person die or be open to attack right under there noses, as that is what has happened here.
Complain about this comment
How do these 'Human Rights' lawyers sleep in their beds? A baby killer gets about two years and thousands of pounds of my money to provide anonymity. A chap who 'steals' £26 million from the Government gets 10 years or has to repay the full amount! So.............money is more important, clearly, than a little boy's life! Why is this 'mother' not jailed for at least 10 years thus saving us taxpayers money and making sure she's safe?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Why should the identities of these monsters be kept secret?
As it turns out, they are secret no longer....their real names have been posted on the internet now, and three cheers for the brave person who did that.
Complain about this comment
Most normal people are moved by this abominable tragedy !! To contemplate the re-occurrence of such an act upon the defenceless is repulsive to us !! Also , the idea that the perpetrators will one day be given their freedom is an anathema to the average British citizen . They should indeed be kept from society for the entire length of their lives........as it was with Myra Hindley and her accomplice !!
The revealing of the culprits identities on the internet was a coup for the truth !! But most of all.........let us hope that this despicable act shall not happen again !
Complain about this comment
the issue appears to be that we have social workers with too much paper work and too many cases. there is a shortage of social workers so why not recruit more to do solely admin linked work and free up their time?
secondly senior managers appear to have restricted social workers from removing baby P from the abusive home. social workers need to be able to make decisions based on their expereince without feeling senior managment will intefere because 'family is best' (and cheapest) place theorising is allowed to dominate
thirdly the parentcentric approach cannot and does not work. co-operation is not an excuse to allow things to contine. A child centred approach is the only workable way to deal with the situation and it may be that criminals will actually lie and cover up whilst appering to co-operate...what a shock!
Complain about this comment
Should we fight violence with violence?
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Perhaps the anonymity is designed to protect not the mother, but her three older children?
Complain about this comment
Here folks, read this pdf, it's the summary of the serious case review conducted by the council. I think the case makes more sense if you read it: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Complain about this comment
If people want to look at the summary of Haringey's serious case review, which gives details about the case that make it make a bit more sense, then put "baby p" and serious case review into google, you get a link to the correct page of the council's website. Baby P is called Child A in the documents.
Complain about this comment
Sadly baby P will not be not be the last, I reported child abuse of a very serious nautre two weeks ago. The police didn't do anything for two weeks and are only arresting the guy now because I contacted social services and my MP. Even then the police told me they can only question the guy and if he refuses to talk it may go no further, as the children involved refuse to give statments, as they are in fear of this person. The children should not have to suffer going to court and fear the perpetrator if there is evidence of abuse. The suspect is also the father of a baby, which is too young to talk yet. who knows what future this baby is going to have.
Complain about this comment
I agree with the comments that say that baby P should be named, so that this boy would be accorded his dignity and 'human rights' he was not accorded when alive.
As for the mother getting life protection from taxpayers purse,I feel it is shameful. This boy also had human rights when he was alive and it is pity those concerned did not protect it.The law should be tougher on those convicted for causing and allowing the death of a child.
The law should pay serious attention to children instead of being tough on petty issues. I shudder to think of children going through similar abuse at this moment.
Please those concerned do your job properly.
Complain about this comment
I cannot forget this little boy; we go about our business, shopping, cooking, cleaning and all the things we have to do in a day but he keeps coming back into my mind and I cannot fathom, in this day and age, how anyone could do such unspeakable things; I thought that happened in the dark ages. I really do hope that those in that house serve a very, very, very, long time in prison. A new identity? She does not deserve it, nor do any of them but if they stay in prison it will not be necessary, will it?
IllustriousFrisby
Complain about this comment
Im a logical person, but think very illogically when it comes to the punishment of child abusers, please hang them all. I'll do the trapdoor!!
Complain about this comment
It will happen again, not because people are inherently evil -- they are not. Even more than genetics, people are the products of their conditioning. The societies of the western world produce more monsters than anywhere else, not because we have inherently worse people, but because we value material goods and money far above a human life. We talk about people killed in wars as "collateral damage". We watch television programs that glorify baseness and brutality. We have yielded to the lowest common denominator instead of demanding that everyone aspire to, and strive for, the highest possible conduct. We are argue against making people responsible and accountable for their own actions and then wonder why they go on to commit atrocities. We bail out criminals and punish the honest person, and whatever lip service we might give it, the message we are all absorbing is, "We can't help being monsters. It's in our natures, so why rebel against it?" If this were true, the number of serial and spree killings, rapes, and mutilations would not be on the rise in the richest countries in the world. There would never have been a time when people could safely leave their front doors open, or call on a neighbour for help. Yet we know there was, so let's stop copping out and accept the truth: we know how to make monsters. It's what we do best. We have the power, but not the will to change it because it might mean temporary inconvenience in our own lives, or possibly admitting unflattering things about our "great modern cultures". We're only really sorry about things like Baby P's death when we get caught doing them; the rest of the time we're content to look the other way, say, "There's nothing I can do", and switch on some Reality TV. Happy viewing.
Complain about this comment
On the whole Mark Eaton is right. It will happen again. In all likelihood it is happening right now, while I am typing this comment or while you are reading it.
As inhuman the accountable adults in Baby Ps' life, as irresolute as the responsible authorities have been we as a society also bear a degree of responsibility. If we were more open to each other, more willing to support, more willing to share maybe, just maybe we could mitigate some of the abuse. Even if it is only to offer an isolated parent a shoulder to cry on, a hand to offer to do the washing for a tired mother ... take a child to the park along with your own. Offer someone a coffee and a few minutes of your time. Do all this in the right spirit without thought of 'what's in it for me' and who knows ...
Baby P did not live his short miserable little life locked away from the rest of humanity. Neighbours and shop assistants, bus drivers and grandparents walking the family dog ...
Yes, I agree first and foremost children are the responsibility of their parent/s but they are also humanity's legacy to the future and as such we are collectively responsible for all children everywhere.
Complain about this comment
i belieive it will happen again, the truth is it's probably happening right now as we are looking at this page. Nobody wants to point the finger, just incase they are mistaken. Some people who know about it, don't want to 'grass up' people they know. If someone is suspected of child abuse, but there is no proof, then realisticly if they want proof they should bug the house, and increase all round surveillance. Nobody said it was a morally correct solution, but it will catch people, and save lives. The people who do these things have no morals. If you're trying to catch someone out who has no morals, using a moral approach, you're fighting a losing battle.
Complain about this comment
Many children are abused,physically, emotionally and sexually but it never comes to the attention of social workers or police because those children belong to the well-heeled, financially secure families.As a therapist, I deal with the consequences in adulthood.Those children have nowhere to go because it is seen as inconceivable that their stories are true.Their parents know how to explain a bruise and are believed. They have the money for solicitors were there ever any accusations. I can go on and on.Those children may not have their back broken but emotionally their suffering is no different from the child somewhere in a back street.
Complain about this comment
yes it will happen again, why? because the people in the job are cowards, yes they hide behind government guidelines fearful not to offend any ones sensibilities, the welfare of a child comes second, people in the job are picked because their face fits, it either fits because its the right colour, or the right social back ground, or the right political background, or they have all the right documents and college papers, guess what, the best way to get an efficient child protection organisation in place, recruit people that have children, older children, interview them at home, ask their kids what kind of person they are, find out if the person is passionate enough to protect children,forget being p.c in this, the future of a generation, a wealth 0f experience is to be had from good parents, will it happen, i doubt it, i have no formal qualifications, but have 3 grown up well adjusted children, i tried to get into child welfare, i would have had more chance getting ti the moon, but i tell you this, i woul have seen through the people that killed that child, and i am brave and strong enough to have made a difference, that child would be alive today.
Complain about this comment
This hopeless and useless discussion merely proves that as a nation, as a society, even worldwide that we are unable to deal with this issue. It is one thing doing studies, quoting figures etc. but at the end of the day when I was a child being beaten by my stepdad, my teachers did not know what to do, so they turned a blind eye. Even now people don't know what to do. If Michael Porter only got 3 years community service at the hands of judge Tom Crowther after admitted to raping children , what hope of recourse do the rest of us have? Perhaps judges such as Mr Crowther can be thanked for the continued problem as he handed paedophiles in general a 'get out of jail free' card. The buck stops with the judge, all of our hopes are cast on their shoulders, and they open the gates and let our abusers run free.
My abuser has not been charged, as a child not a single adult, even those I confessed my abuse to were able to do a single thing, whether out of fear, ignorance or something else I will never know. Besides, what is the point of taking the whole thing to a legal system where offenders are habitually 'let off the hook'. If the highest level of law and order in our country are unable to grasp the seriousness of this situation, the rest is just semantics.
Complain about this comment
I have to agree with amazinglibby6. Child abuse has to be taken seriously and offenders properly punished. The child's welfare is paramount. And this means that all of us have to act with responsibility.
A teenager invented the most incredible story that neither the school nurse nor two teachers (I was one of them) believed. BUT we knew something had to be going on and pursued it. We were also sworn to secrecy by the child, and this was understandable because what was really happening was worse than the story she invented.
It takes an enormous amount of courage for abused children to put their trust in another adult. In this case she stepped forward because her sister was becoming the next victim.
Until all professionals recognise the terrible suffering that abused children face and their duty to do their part, well yes "the rest is just semantics"
Complain about this comment
I agree with Comment 95 regarding teachers. From what we've read on the Baby P case, the older children in the family seem to have not said anything to teachers about their dreadful home life. Was this because they were intimidated by those in the household into not telling? Or did they think their life was normal, as they had grown up this way? The boyfriend moved in, it seems the violence escalated, and escalated again when the lodger moved in. They must have been scared of the new men in the house. They probably saw or heard the baby being hurt. Its tragic to think they came to school each day and said nothing. If only these children had been able to confide in a teacher, perhaps this could have ended differently.
Would the teachers have been informed in this case that a pupil's younger sibling was on the at-risk register? That fact must have had implications for all the children in the family, therefore I would think teachers should be informed. I know we can’t expect teachers to do the job of social workers. But sometimes the teacher may be the only trustworthy adult that the child sees and can confide in.
What can we learn from this case? Were there clues (in hindsight) with these older children at school? I'd like to know how we can recognize such children, and help them.
Can we encourage more open discussion in the classroom, so that young children know they can tell the teacher in confidence, if they are threatened, scared, see a sibling being harmed, etc. It could save younger siblings and babies too young to speak.
Its much better to discuss it openly at school age, so they are not keeping these terrible situations a secret. Right now, there will be children in school who for various reasons are not speaking out while this is happening at home. Its sad that there seem to be so many barriers, in their eyes, to speaking out.
We should be teaching our children that they should feel safe and secure at home, etc. To not be intimidated by anyone who tells them to keep quiet about violence in the house. Let them know they will be safe, even if they tell. The sort of things we as parents teach our children if they should encounter bullies, etc. But if the bullies are the parents/mother's boyfriends etc, then who can help the children speak out? Who could have helped the victims in the recent incest case to have the courage to tell someone? The schools are one place where they can be encouraged to speak about abuse/incest etc. If it takes extra investment and special teachers to deal with this subject, then invest in it. Teach them self-esteem, confidence, courage. Let them know it is a safe environment to speak out if they are hurt. All reports must be dealt with, not ignored, as mentioned above. If we are serious about preventing child abuse, the schools have to be involved in the preventative strategies.
Get the subject of child abuse/incest etc, out in the open in our schools, and stop the secrecy that allows the abuse to continue.
Complain about this comment
"We must never let it happen again". For me this pledge means that it should never happen again when so many people, professionals and others (neighbours, family friends, etc) seemed to be aware what was going on but seemed to lack the will to stop it.
If a baby dies in a house at the hands of his or her parents, and it is only after the baby's death that people even discover the baby lived there (which happens) then this death was clearly unpreventable. The difference here is that Baby P was very much in the public eye. He was visited by social workers and health visitors, he went to a childminder, he went to the doctor and to the hospital, he went to stay with his natural father. None of these people seemed able to step in and save him. He lost weight and was covered with scabs and sores. The last photo of him alive (that the public have been allowed to see) is shocking, yet that photo was clearly taken out on the street. Did no one see him in that state? Who took the photo? One of his abusers or someone else who could have queried his terrible condition?
Baby P was under the close scrutiny of numerous professionals and still died. What hope for other babies and children who have minimal contact with the authorities? If we can't save the poor kids that we don't know about, please could we start saving those that we do. And I use the pronoun 'we' advisedly. We all need to be viligant, report things that worry us, question suspicious behaviour, be nosy neighbours. Perhaps in this way we can help to prevent the tragedy of Baby P from happening again.
Daisychain17 (Post 65) drew attention to the Number 10 petition calling for a public enquiry into the death of Baby P right under the noses of those who were meant to protect him. If all of those people who have been so shocked by this terrible tragedy signed that petition, then surely it would have millions of signatures by now? In fact it has around 6,400. Surely we can do better than that? Go to
petitions.number10.gov.uk/BabyPEnquiry/
to make your voice heard.
Complain about this comment
I support a public enquiry into this case. We need to investigate why so many professionals failed to see the whole picture, and failed to act on the childs behalf.
I have read the Serious Case Review Executive Summary online on the Haringey council website. Police enquiries into the abuse started in December 2006. Investigations were made again in June 2007. The mother was arrested twice during this time in connection with the abuse. The report states that it was known that a Mr. H. was a friend. But all professionals understood the household to comprise of just the mother and children. Police investigation after the childs death (in August 2007) established that the boyfriend (Mr H) had been present in the house probably since February 2007.
My question is, why did the police, in the June investigation, just take the mothers word that she was living alone, rather than making the necessary enquiries?
The child was already on the at risk register. The mother had previously been arrested on suspicion of causing the abuse. The report says the police were enquiring about potential perpetrators of the childs injuries. Surely they should have questioned neighbours, to find out more about the household, visitors, etc. Did they not think to enquire next door and along the street, to find out what was going on in the house. Why did they believe the mothers statement that she lived alone, without verifying the facts?
Apparently neighbours and others in the street were well aware the men lived at the house. They used to see them up and down the street regularly. Neighbours and others in the street said that nobody ever asked them who was living there. They have said they would have told police, if asked.
Police have also stated that, had they known the men were living there, this would have changed their investigation considerably. Yet this man lived there from February onwards, with the lodger, underage girlfriend and lodgers children in the final weeks. How hard would it have been to find out? They were not invisible. The police never took the trouble to ask the local community.
In the light of this tragedy, I hope the police are assessing what went wrong with their investigation. If they had discovered the men living there in June (which would not have been too difficult), things could have turned out very differently for this child. Background checks would have revealed the history of animal torture. The lodger would have been charged, as he had an underage girlfriend in the house.
In future, if a child in a household is on the at-risk register, will police and social workers now make themselves aware of exactly who lives in the house, by asking neighbours and doing the necessary investigations?
Neighbours should be made aware of a child on the at-risk register , and asked to report anything unusual. A child at risk is in the care of social workers, whilst still within the home. The community should be part of the safety net surrounding that child. Better communication between police, social workers etc, and the local community might ensure that people get the complete picture of what is happening. Instead, in this case, it seems that social workers, police, neighbours, and all the individuals involved, had just a part of the jigsaw puzzle, and no-one had the complete picture. That was the tragedy for this child.
Complain about this comment
I do agree with No 97 and 96.
I have four grandchildren and l would know if anything was happening to them, and l would not let anybody abuse them.
I really can not beleive that this is happening in this day and age.
The trouble is that we live in such a nanny state that people are frighten to even look or help somebody elses child.
I really think now this is out in the open about Baby P, we should all get to gether and start looking out for any more buse children and doing something about it and not look the other way.
I have a cocker spaniel that is really loved, l would not dream of ever hurting him, he as got a better life that Baby P it really makes me mad.
If l knew of an abused child i would do something about it l would help that child so come on everybody lets make sure it never happens again.
We need to get justice for lovely little Baby P.
Complain about this comment
I agree with badger_fruit. The time's come to stop messing around with the hideous people who delight in child cruelty.
Baby P's suffering is unimaginable. An adult might've died from his injuries, let alone such a small and defenceless little boy, so why are some people swayed into a sense of fasle security - it being that it won't happen to them? Hang the perpertrators. They don't deserve to be kept by decent, tax-paying people, and I don't believe that you can rehabilitate someone who's obviously got such natural sadistic streaks in them. I'm sick of hearing about the do-gooders who say that capital punishment's not the way forward. Simply imprisoning these apologies for human beings hasn't worked. Get rid of them, however many it takes, and let the rest of us try and get things back to how they should be, which means being caring and mindgul of others.
Complain about this comment
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Baby P's mother, her boyfriend and the lodger were due to be sentenced today, before the judge announced that sentencing would be delayed until next spring for legal reasons. This is a shame, particularly for Baby P's father and extended family, who might have found some closure in the sentencing. They will now have to wait several months more to see what sort of justice will be handed down to the three adults responsible for the death of Baby P.
However, you have to think that, whatever sentence is finally imposed, it can never provide any sort of justice for Baby P. I do not understand why these three adults were not charged with, or convicted of, murder. Those deemed to be responsible for the death of Victoria Climbie, the great-aunt and boyfriend, were found guilty of murder and were sentenced to life in prison. In the case of Baby P, the crime is merely one of causing or allowing the death of a child.
As such, the adults in the Baby P case will get a maximum of 14 years in prison, and, according to legal experts, the mother may get considerably less. What sort of justice system do we have in this country that such a terrrible crime can receive such a paltry sentence? And when the perpetrators do get out of prison, they will no doubt be given anonymity and the chance to start over. Not such a bad outcome for them, then.
"Baby P: It will happen again". Of course it will, when we don't as a society think that a child's life is worth more than 14 years in prison. Causing or allowing the death of a child should carry an automatic life sentence, given that we don't have the death penalty in this country. Perhaps if we did have the death penalty, or at least mandatory life sentences, then would-be child abusers and child murderers might think twice before committing such crimes in the future.
Complain about this comment
i hope this will never happen again...
Complain about this comment
When I first read about this story obviously I was aghast at what an awful story and sad for Baby P. My next thought was for the social workers knowing they will get more that there fair share of the blame. they obviously missed all the signs or the adults were very clever in covering up any signs that should have been seen.
Next thought at least there was a social worker assigned to this case, many parents with disabled children will tell you that social workers are in such short supply you are extemely luck if you ever get to see one let alone have one working on your case. Shortages of staff mean that community nurses are filling the role of qualified social workers, the social workers will have far too many cases to deal with to provide an adequate service, nurses do a good job but why aren't there enough social workers to go round, if there was the Baby P case may have been investigate more throughly.
We all get a little prickly when big brother is mentioned but to protect the innocient I beleive we need to accept that big brother is required and necessary
Complain about this comment
The vicoria climbie and baby p cases still prove that ss are getting it wrong day after day,So NO they will not learn and YES it will happen again as they do not see their failings.They continue to ivestigate innocent families who are trying their best and continue to let sick people who are clearly beating and abusing their children get away with it because of paperwork or so we are told by who else social services.stop making excuses and start doing what u r being paid to do.
Complain about this comment
If there was a good course you could go on that would show you how to look after your families well being, body mind and spirit, resolving all the hurt and pain and abuses of your past, would you want to attend? What would you be willing to pay for such knowledge?
Complain about this comment
I can only agree, i am a caring and loving father, my ex partner is a violent and abusive alcoholic, this weekend upon visitation she turned up with bruises on her legs and scratch marks and a bite mark on her arm, i took her to A&E and after hours of assessment and confirming with the doctor that it was not possible for me to have done the bruises in the time i had her, social services turn around and say they have the reports indicating it is uncertain when the bit marks were made, then implied i should not accuse my ex partner.
When social services can be so sexist to a point they are threatening to a concerned father and listen and beleieve the first pack of lies out of the mouth of a proven alcoholic with reports of increased alcoholism, its no wonder children are at risk.
Courts dont want to get involved as its too much hassle, MP's say its fine as social services say they are just following thier procedures, but what happened to common sense and looking at the proof and evidence and doing what is bst for the child ratehr than pandering tothe needs of alcoholics to keep them quiet.
Complain about this comment
View these comments in RSS