Ethnicity and the five-year-old
It is sensitive territory but, if we are serious about trying to offer equality of opportunity to all in our multi-racial society, it strikes me as important to venture there.
By the age of five, ethnicity already appears to have a significant impact on a child's health, behaviour and cognitive abilities.
The latest batch of data from the Millennium Cohort Study (MCS) has been published following the lives of more than 15,000 children who were born in the two years after the millennium.
But it also involves their families. And through the reams of data we begin to get a picture of how different people live.
The MCS - set up by the Economic and Social Research Council and co-funded by government - is a remarkable piece of longitudinal research that has already published data on children of the new millennium aged nine months and three years.
In the latest batch of data, the comparisons which jumped out at me relate to five-year-olds from different ethnic backgrounds as they begin primary school - disparities which mean some groups are always playing catch up.
Separate figures published earlier this week show that at GCSE some (but not all) of the minorities are still performing less well.
On the five-year-old's first day in reception class, the cohort study already found "substantial differences in adjustment...between ethnic groups".
It may feel uncomfortable, but identifying areas of weakness means support and resources can be targeted appropriately.
One aspect the study looks at is problem behaviour among our 21st century five-year-olds.
It is measured by asking parents whether their child has conduct problems, hyperactivity, emotional symptoms, peer problems and so on. The higher the score, the more problems reported.
PROBLEM BEHAVIOUR
Indian: 6.5
Black African: 6.5
White: 6.6
Mixed: 7.4
Other: 8
Black Caribbean: 8.2
Bangladeshi: 8.2
Pakistani: 9.2
Source: Millennium Cohort Study
A separate measure of a child's cognitive abilities also finds marked ethnic variation. The British Ability Scales (BAS) measures a five-year-old's facility at naming vocabulary, picture similarities and pattern construction. The higher the score, the greater the cognitive development.
COGNITIVE DEVELOPMENT
White: 102.2
Mixed: 101.3
Indian: 98.3
Black Caribbean: 98
Other 95.7
Black African 91.4
Bangladeshi 88.6
Pakistani 87.4
Source: Millennium Cohort Study
"Bangladeshi and Pakistani children appear to show lower levels of cognitive ability at school entry, and their mothers report more behaviour problems", the researchers note, although they are quick to insert important health warnings.
"Data on minority groups are subject to greater sampling error", they say.
"The response rates of some non-white groups, cultural expectations, the importance of other languages spoken in the home, and the number of siblings are just some of the factors that have to be considered."
We do have to be careful, certainly before assuming cause. Poverty, parental education, language may all play a role. But the findings are so consistent that it appears we are looking at something real.
For instance, the Pakistani and Bangladeshi children are behind in their physical development, creative development and mathematical development too.
One possible factor which emerges from the data is the role of parents in different ethnic groups.
Take the role of fathers. On average,1.3% of dads say they never play with toys or games with their five-year-old child. The figure for Pakistanis and Bangladeshis is 9%.
The study finds, on average, 2.5% of dads never play sport with their five-year-old. Among Pakistanis and Bangladeshis it is almost 12%. (With Indian fathers it is 2.4%).
A big difference is found among mothers too. Just 1% of mums never read to their child. Among Pakistanis and Bangladeshis, the figures is 7.1%.
Illiteracy rates may play big a part in this, as may differences in the way ethnic groups answer such questions.
Or the explanation may simply be that different cultures rear children in different ways.
It is not just in their mental development that we see big variation between ethnic groups. There are already apparent health disparities among the five-year-olds arriving at school.
For example, black children are three times as likely to be obese as a classmate from an Indian background and twice as likely as a white youngster.
OBESITY
Average: 5.3%
Indian: 4.1%
Other: 4.8%
White: 4.9%
Mixed: 7.1%
Pakistani/Bangladeshi: 8%
Black: 12.5%
Source: Millennium Cohort Study
The data does not distinguish between black children of African or Caribbean origin but the researchers conclude that "dietary differences are likely to be important here, and genetics may also play a role".
Indeed, there is evidence of a generational legacy.
Like their children, Afro-Caribbean mothers are almost three times as likely to be obese as an Indian mother.
These findings suggest public health campaigns might benefit from further targeting their effort towards different ethnic groups.
Other health issues affect ethnic groups in different ways.
The cohort parents were asked whether their five-year-old had any longstanding health problem. On this measure, it is white and mixed race youngsters who are reported to have the greatest level of chronic illness by their parents.
LONGSTANDING HEALTH PROBLEM
Average: 19.5%
Indian: 13%
Black: 14.5%
Pakistani/Bangladeshi: 16%
Other: 18.3%
White: 19.8%
Mixed: 23.9%
Source: Millennium Cohort Study
Why? Well, one important factor may be the proportion of mums who smoke.
MOTHERS WHO SMOKE
Bangladeshi: 4.1%
Indian: 5.2%
Pakistani: 7.5%
Black African: 7.8%
Other: 11.3%
White: 29.8%
Black Caribbean: 34%
Mixed: 38%
Source: Millennium Cohort Study
One sort of knows it, but when you look at the bald statistics it is quite startling to see the difference between ethnic groups.
Seven times as many white five-year-olds have mothers who smoke compared to their Bangladeshi class-mates.
I was also struck by the difference in smoking rates between black African and Caribbean mothers.
The researchers conclude that the relatively low level of longstanding health problems reported among Asian children "may reflect their lesser exposure to smoking in pregnancy and the higher rate at which they were breastfed in infancy".
Everyone has possible lessons to learn from the data.
A final observation: the differences in how ethnic groups regard themselves as parents. Asked how they felt they did as a parent, here are the proportions for mums who thought they did a "very good" job.
VERY GOOD MOTHER
White: 29.7%
Mixed: 33.6%
Indian: 39.3%
Other 42.3%
Pakistani / Bangladeshi: 47.8%
Black: 50.4%
Source: Millennium Cohort Study
And dads who thought they did a great job?
VERY GOOD FATHER
White: 34.2%
Mixed: 36.7%
Indian: 45.2%
Pakistani / Bangladeshi: 47.7%
Other 51%
Black: 55.5%
Source: Millennium Cohort Study
This is, I think, a warning we should heed before anyone leaps in and lectures parents from whatever ethnic background on how to bring up their children. No-one has a monopoly on wisdom.
I'm 
© MMIX~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~42~RS~)
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could the difference in how the parent feels lie in the fact that bame groups hold more towards family and moral upbringing were as white/other feel that the state is more moraly right about how they behave and the affects the state has on westernised parents.
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What on earth has smoking got to do with this survey?
This is a bit o.t.t.
No mention of drugs, drinking, child abuse, All of these may be more revelent than a wiff of smoke.
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The MCS link doesn't work and I would like to see the full study
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I think that some parts of this study could well be missing the real reason for the differences. People are all different. It might not be because a child is poor or from an ethnic miority that they are behind others- it is probably because of the amount of attention they get from parents. I'm sure there are plenty of poor ethnic minority children out there that are the stars in their schools. They don't use their background as excuses, they just work hard and have lots of attention from their parents, as every child should. That is the real reason for success and failure.
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2 its the lets bash smokers society we live in forgetting the binge drinking etc becouse its less harmfull to humans as if.
these studies are always flawed and can be read in very different ways.
but it firstly shows this concept of a multi cultral society has failed and is damaging the very fabric of this island state.
please note none of the groups were british or ethnic british the majority were classed by from where they come from thus they have failed to intergrate and will continue to splinter this countries collectiveness and in times of serious crisis will these people support this there new home or there former homes, ways of life and religions.
multi cultral societies always fail and in some cases bloodshed ensues think eastern european states and the middle east for examples, will this island go the same way well it may already be going that way.
those pushing multi cultral societies in this country realy need to pull there collective heads out of the clouds and see the truth of there ideas.
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presumably because people who with all the info available to the still persist on smoking when pregnant and around children, indicates either ignorance or a disregard for their child and therefore must have an impact on a child's well being at the least?
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I think this study is very interesting, and we should not ignore its findings, particularly with regard to "problematic" children in the classroom. Being in sixth form at the moment, so having recently come through primary and secondary school (and I have the added benefit of having been at several primary schools), I can assure you beyond doubt that there is a very real problem with disruptive influences in classrooms. Even if it's just one child in class of 25, they can greatly disrupt and damage lessons and be a significant hindrance to the rest of the class, because the teacher is so restricted in their options when it comes to stopping the child misbehaving, and therefore has to waste vast amounts of time getting them to settle. This is, as Mr Easton says, a very touchy subject, and the PC brigade will be hovering around our comments like hungry sharks, but I'm not discriminating or anything like that when I say in absolute honesty... BY FAR, ethnic minorities make up a huge, and miles out of proportion, section of the problematic body of children. Be it down to cultural differences, lack of integration, or whatever, we need to look to identify the issue and bring people from all sides together to discuss a solution.
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Why do we instantly jump to 'differences between ethnicity = some form of conscious inequality'
simple fact is most people who aren't white are going to be immigrants (or 2 or 3rd generation) - which means they're going to move into the cheapest areas (inner cities) and probably do the worst jobs, so they are exposed to far less opportunity, probably go to the worst schools, in the poorest areas - not a good prospect
That said, of course not all white people are benefiting or well-off, there's plenty in the poorest places - but most of those doing well will be white - this has nothing to do with colour, as usual with most stats: it is a correlation - not a cause
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The study as you report it just lumps all "white" together. Had it separted out into white middle class and white working class I have no doubt the the working class would not have come out well. We are the forgotten minority.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I can't be bothered to pay attention to anything resembling ethnicity anymore. It seems to mean practically anything, being chopped and changed so much. Sometimes it's just a polite expression for race. Sometimes it's a cultural community. Sometimes it's ancestry.
Why do South Asians qualify for three different ethnic groups, whilst Whites and Blacks only get one each? What in God's name is 'mixed' ethnicity?
I hope they make the ethnicity question optional in the next census.
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There really should be a health warning about all the tables in this blog which come from a Hansard report. They are all 1-dimensional and it is quite frankly irresponsible to report them in this way, Our elected representatives should have been more aware of the analytical requirements.
For example, better behavioural and cognitive developmental state of white kids could be naively linked to smoking so that smoking is good for your kids. No-one believes this of course. In addition there are much finer grained definitions other than 'white', 'pakistani', etc. Maybe income bracket or mothers' education should also be reported. I hope that the researchers looked at these issues.
Such reporting could be used in a very negative way that is not good for social cohesion and development apart from understanding what is going on. I hope that the BBC improves on this standard and presents a more intelligent precis of the work in due course - even asking one of the research team to contribute to the blog.
Or has the BEEB joined the gutter press?
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number 9 your right but you forget the ethnic white minorities the pict,saxon,norse and celts as ethnic groups that are more indiginous to these islands and whom have there own genetic diversity.
sadly modern ideas forget the older ethnic minorities and ignore there problems. the british government clumps the minority races indiginous to these islands as purly british and are in there way of creating there modern ethnic diverse country.
as a celt i find westminsters ignorance highly insulting and unsetteling, at least the european government recognises the ethnic minority i am from.
this government should be charged with ethnic cleansing of minorities infavour of other groups.
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It might be relevant to know the literacy and educational levels of the parents when looking at the cognitive development scores. Those parents with low literacy and educational levels are likely to provide lower levels of mental stimulation, to have fewer (if any) books in the home and so on. A higher percentage of Pakistanis and Bangladeshis that don`t read to their children probably reflect a higher percentage of illiteracy, amongst women in particular that are expected to do all the childrearing. Likewise when looking at school achievement, fluency in English has to be considered; if children can`t understand what is being taught then they will inevitably lag behind. (And be less able to find work etc.)
It is interesting that parents are asked to score problem behaviour. Families that come from traditions of obedience to parents might be less tolerant (and their perception of what misbehaviour is may be wider) of any forms of misbehaviour (and score higher) than those from more liberal traditions. Results from studies in the classroom might be more relevant when comparing children from different backgrounds.
It would also be better to look at what exactly what the differences in diet are? It is known that poor diet can result in poor learning and behaviour and higher levels of health issues. Looking at diet purely in terms of obesity is short sighted.
There is also no indication of average income or of class in this study. For example amongst white children there will be substantial differences between those from poor, low educated white families and educated middle class white families with good incomes. These differences will also exist amongst other ethnic groups; so some understanding of the breakdown of socio economic status for each ethnic group would be more relevant.
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@ delminister (#5)
1) you say that the study is flawed, then say that it shows that the concept of a multi-cultural society has failed. So the report is good for nothing, except when it comes to supporting your argument?
2) none of the available groups were "British" because British is a nationality, not an ethnicity. English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh can (arguably) be considered as such, but the modern concept of Britishness only came into being during the 17th century. Perhaps it is confusing that we have to group ethnic minorities along national lines, but it is a consensus reached among statisticians and sociologists, not evidence that all people with darker skin are loyal to their ancestral homeland. I also find it slightly offensive that you exclude non-whites from your definition of Britishness. Who asked you?
3) It is true that a multi-ethnic society will not always be successful, but a mono-cultural approach is what has most often lead to violence in the Middle East and South-Eastern Europe, not multi-culturalism. Oh, and you seem to be almost as confused with terminology as you are with idiom.
4) Perhaps it is unkind of me to say so, but I find it ironic that most 10 year olds (from whichever minority) would have a better grasp of the English language than you do; I'd have a long hard look at yourself before you start to point the finger at people just because they are different from yourself.
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I don't think this is a helpful survey, it will create more divisions in the society. All these surveys about very good mothers, fathers or problem behavior is absurd. Race does not determine a person's behavior; for example a black person in Africa will be different from a black in UK or USA.
Besides, the last time i checked most of the yobs on the street causing trouble were whites. I have seen obese people of all races.
These surveys seems like the lack common sense.
Only in UK you will see trifling reviews as such, you don't see this in the US.
Why cant we just accept each other and leave in peace and harmony instead of trying to tarnish each other with a brush.
What are we suppose to do with this survey? Use it to judge each other or what?
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As a father of a mixed race Chinese/British child, I note with interest the figures from the referenced data - Chinese kids performing significantly better in their GCSEs than any other group, and wonder how this ethnic group compares in the other quoted statistics?
The numbers are high enough to be statistically valid, and the wide gap in performance would suggest a close study of this group would give a lot of useful information.
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These boards are turning into a spouting ground for the far right and their pathetically deluded sympathisers.
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as ever there are lies, damned lies and statistics.
Children of parents who take an interest in them and their education and spend time with them generally do well at school, it doesn't matter what ethnicity (a word I am growing to detest) a child is for this to happen.
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15 there is no such person as an english person as the english are by definition a collective.
the use of british to cover these islands is an insult to the ethnic ninority races living here.
i accept other races and freely admit some have improoved the english what i object to is minority groups trying to impose there standards from where ever they are from onto the minority races already living on these islands.
as for my use of english it shows that as a member of these islands i am as imperfect as as any one else you will find no holes in my hands and feet.
there is also the roman and norman groups who are intergrated into what is known as english, british or what ever they wish to call themselves.
you also take too literaly the point i tried to explain so easily put its that multi cultrial societies by there own being will fail and do fail and it matters not what spin people put on it its a failure, singular societies eventualy die out and again is not the way to go and i do not advocate either but a ballance well thought out where people each have the same rights. utopean ideals rather than ideas pushed onto us by greedy mp's and corrupt officials.
attacking my use of this language that may not be my first language i find typical of a person who sadly cares for themself first others a poor second.
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I think that there are at least 3 critically important factors missing from this report:
- the economic level of the parents
- the educational level of the parents
- the cultural background of the parents (e.g. are these immigrants or were they born in the UK? If immigrants, how long have they lived in this culture?)
Without those factors, it seems pointless to try and draw any meaningful conclusions from the study. Instead the study by its nature forces somewhat racist conclusions because it categorizes individuals only by ethnic background, as if that is the sole cause of any differences.
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There are so many more questions raised than answers given in this survey that one really wonders how much value it really has.
The real problem is that too much depends on subjective answers. They do have their place though - it is quite evident that some groups have a far higher opinion of themselves as parents than others and it APPEARS that the better they think they are, then the worse they perform.
But,as others have pointed out, this may in part be due to different perceptions of what constitute problem behaviour and health problems.
Another fundamental problem is the group definitions which are far too wide. "Other" is so broad as to be meaningless. Even "white" means little; are Turks and Arabic people white or other, or is it left to them to decide?
In too many categories Black African and Afro-Caribbean are combined despite the known differences in culture and behaviour. When it comes to parents of "Mixed" children they can be white (like me) or black (like my wife) or mixed themselves - or any other ethnic group for that matter. Yet they ware all lumped together making the findings absolutely meaningless.
Two things that do come across despite the flaws - and either not commented on by others or blocked by BBC censors - is that only among Moslems do mothers have as high an opinion of themselves as do fathers; and coming from a Moslem home is a drawback as far as cognitive development is concerned,
Or should that be "cognitive development as measured to fit Western culture"?
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A possibly divisive survey that reminds me of the historical American intelligence tests for immigrants in the past.
I feel the Chinese should have been included, as it would have produced a more balanced survey.
The moral aspect has been inexplicably missed, with questions asked on how do the kids treat authority, property and other people is an important question.
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Mark,
Indeed, it is important to tackle such sensitive issues as race and sexuality. But has it ocurred to you that the cited figures are themselves spurious and untenable?
People tend to have a respect for quantitative data. Yet, it is seldom acknowledged that such statistics often reflect as much assumptions of the researchers who ask questions as those of the subjects who answer them.
The complex reality can never be reduced to impersonalised charts and data generalisations which often confuse 'correlations' with 'causations'.
To get an integrated picture about Mark's subject matter, we need more substantial, empirical evidence than the cited figures could suggest.
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Because of the effects of evolution, every group of people living on the planet is different in thousands of different ways. We are all therefore born with different attributes, which were selected by evolution - those genes which helped our ancestors survive and procreate (in the environments of our ancestors) remained in our gene pool; others fell by the wayside. Colour of skin does not 'cause' anything; it is itself merely one of these attributes selected by evolution.
Everyone is terrified of saying something that might be perceived as 'racist', and this in effect becomes a major cause of 'racism' and conflict. The fact is that both 'nurture' and 'nature' have an effect on all of us.
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Predictably there seems to be a link between time spent with the children and performance. I've found that there are some cultures that encourage eg. fathers to spend time, eg. reading or telling stories with the children and those which feel they shouldn't have to- whether these people believe they're doing a good job is irrelevant. Plenty of unsuccessful people think they're doing a good job- often a form of complacency.
I know Einstein said,' If you want your children to be clever, tell them fairy tales. If you want them to be brilliant tell them more fairy tales'.
Incidentally, Einstein thought children should only start school much later than five!
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No doubt all very well meaning and serious research but this highlights the dangers of over reliance on pure statistics, which is scientific data, and the way in which these are obtained, which is highly subjective. For example, it seems to completely disregard geographical location. How many Bangladeshi or Pakistani children grow up in The New Forest? How many Afro-Carribean kids live in the leafy suburbs of Surrey? Regardless of ethnicity, what proportion of mothers from comfortable politically correct middle class families smoke as opposed to inner city deprived areas? These are all factors which have a bearing because of the tendency of people from various ethnic groups to live in the same areas and environments. This could be very valuable research but it could just as easily be hijacked by people who have a political or politically correct agenda which does not stand up to analysis.
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@ post 16. - salamsm
"Besides, the last time i checked most of the yobs on the street causing trouble were whites."
That would be because whites make up over 90% of the population in the UK. Go to London, Birmingham, Manchester, Nottingham, Bradford. I assure you, most of the trouble in those areas is caused by non-whites. I see you chose not to mention that.
"What are we suppose to do with this survey? Use it to judge each other or what?"
That's ironic, seeing as you've done just that.
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Very Interesting !!
But The Chinese Ethnic Origin Always Gets FORGOTTEN Doesn't It ?
You Should Have Included Chinese Next Time, To Even The Data Properly.
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Don't you think these statistics have been collated simply to show exactly what the researchers wanted to show?
There are other things that have a huge impact on how a child develops, and how well it's likely to do at school. One of these things is language, and the language spoken at home. It isn't mentioned.
Nor, as other readers have said, are the various drugs that affect adults and children alike, and alcohol use. It's all well and good recording the number of smokers, but they aren't exactly the source of all evil in our society, although some would have you believe they are. How many drinkers will happily stand on the street "having a pint" and then stroll back indoors for a chat with their friends?
The other thing is constantly grouping together "white", it used to be that "white" meant English speaking, that's no longer the case with the numbers of people here from other European countries whose native tongue is not English.
Why too are the Chinese always left out? Or are they meant to be "other".
Also, as somebody has already said, what about social grouping? That has a huge impact on a child's development, so too has whether one or two parents are in work, and whether there's actually any sort of work ethic in the family home. But I'm sure we aren't allowed to delve that deeply, are we?
The whole thing isn't exactly good statistical gathering is it? Looks more like some ethnically correct, ethnically skewed designed to demonise one or other group, or prove that our society is failing that particular group.
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Rather than looking at the figures for different races and pointing fingers, the most striking thing here is the nurture issue.
Genetically you would expect Caribean black people to be equivelent to african, and you would expect Pakistani to be close to Indian if not the same. At least as close as you can say any English white is a race given all the influences that make up a white English person.
Whats important here is to recognise how much a child's performance and health is influenced by a particular upbringing. That doesnt mean certain parents are being bad parents, it just means there are things we don't understand that could affect childrens performance at school. A child may come from a devoted loving family, but the way the child is treated may be having a negative effect. Just as white middle class helicopter mums may hold back their childrens confidence to try things on their own.
I would suggest this would be much more striking if race was not the catagorisation, but instead it was classed in wealth brackets, area and single vs two parent families. Of course other studies point to white males from poor background performing worse than black or asian. These results could easily point to black families, for example, being on average poorer than the average white, and to wealth as the indicator.
I grew up on a council estate, my father never played sports with me, nobody ever read to me. But I was not distruptive in class. Whilst children who need help should be identified early it would do a severe disservice to assume that one race is more likely to be disruptive.
So what is the answer? You can't tell all primary school teachers to treat children of different races differently...that would disadvantage some children. And who is going to start knocking on doors of specific races and accuse them of poor parenting?
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# 30. At 00:50am on 20 Oct 2008, cheesed-off wrote:
Don't you think these statistics have been collated simply to show exactly what the researchers wanted to show?
I think you'll find that's the general trend with roughly 95% of Mark Easton's blog entries on this site (I allow for a 5% margin of error on this)
It's essentially just a platform for misinformation intended to make most of us feel guilty about something. Once you accept the fact that his use of statistics is invariably selective, not to mention pointless, it becomes clear that he actually has very little to say about anything at all.
I'd recommend some of the other BBC blogs, they're far more entertaining!
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"Don't you think these statistics have been collated simply to show exactly what the researchers wanted to show?"
It doesn't take much looking to figure out that there's very OFTEN a bias in studies, not just to what gets studied, but to what gets reported.
Companies hawking a particular product or policy tend to sponsor scientifically-dodgy studies that return results in their favor. Foundations with grant money on the line will play up particular aspects of data in order to convince you that their expert guidance is needed. Read the sentence in the blog post
"These findings suggest public health campaigns might benefit from further targeting their effort towards different ethnic groups."
How long do you think it will take before a group comes forward to a local council demanding more money to act on this 'perceived need'? A week? A day?
When, of course, if you actually pay attention to the data, there's NOTHING there to say that "campaigning" would be useful or effective, since the data go along with what's already known: the tendency to obesity is largely genetic. With that in mind, the idea that the group with heavier children also has heavier parents is so amazingly obvious it barely needs saying. Of course the heavier parents produce heavier offspring. And genes have yet to pay attention to political campaigns, alas.
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If Chinese is included, then Japanese and Korean should also be used as ethnicities; contrary to popular opinion, they are far more genetically different than Indians, Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are within the regional group - much like whites can be split into Anglo Saxon, Scandavian, Celtic, Norman etc... for the purposes of convenience it would have been far better to have done - white, black, arab and oriental.
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Hello,
I think there are no offences in this report towards ethnic minorities. The main conclusion to be made by parents who belong to these minorities is that they should spend more time with their children, especially fathers. There are a lot of scientific researches that emphasize the importance of dads for the children’ development. The more time you spend with your kids, the better personalities they will be.
Cheers,
Rustam.
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I see that this study readily links parents' smoking to long standing health problems but not to cognitive development. White and mixed ethnicity were in the top 3 for smoking with 29.8% and 38% respectively. For cognitive development they were the top two: white = 102.2, mixed = 101.3 so does that mean parents smoking helps a childs cognitive development? I'm not suggesting it really does; the point is, you cannot take statistics at face value. Too many variables and too much jumping to conclusions if you ask me.
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Just to say the questionnaire is here (its very long!)
http://qb.soc.surrey.ac.uk/surveys/mcs/03parentqmcs.pdf
and the data set will be available for academics and other researchers later.
No very sensible conclusions can be drawn from the data in the blog because as people have pointed out the categories are vague and dispersions are not given. There are many intervening factors captured in the questionnaire.
The children are now 7-8 and have been assessed in school for Key Stage 1. Good primary schools will be 'tracking children to help improve performance (and to avoid a discussion about 'testing' they are no gradgrinds and will be usually intervening in a rich and creative way as far as they can afford)
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Interesting - and once again all credit for having the nerve to discuss this issue in the current climate of oppression.
You dont mention one issue which is the 'british white males' (OFSTED term) from poor backgrounds who have been identified as the lowest acheiving group in some areas - particularly where they are a minority group in predominantly ethnic schools.
In your discussion above you put all the white people together - presumably also including the kids from east european countries who can also have language challenges to face
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"The researchers conclude that the relatively low level of longstanding health problems reported among Asian children "may reflect their lesser exposure to smoking in pregnancy and the higher rate at which they were breastfed in infancy". "
It's also interesting that the group with the highest cognitive scores also has the lowest rate of people who think they are "very good" parents, and some of the highest rates of smoking mothers and long-term health problems.
So the meassage is clear - start smoking and neglecting your kids if you want them to be clever.
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I think this is very interesting and important but also brave.
Many of the areas discussed show results that are understandable but the variation in results is surprisingly high. I would imagine that some of the differences will level out as the children develop.
Of course this is going to provoke discussions centred on opinions of ethnic grouping (as a middle class white British person I think I can safely say that that type of discussion will mainly be from white middle class British people). You cannot carry out a study separating out each and every origin - where do you start and how far back do you go?! In studies such as this, each participant (or in this case, their parent/s) usually select their ethnicity themselves. And they should know!
This is a scientific study and is worthwhile. But some people will miss the point.
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One point which does not seem to have been raised is CLASS, plus mother's education. This subject has the most bearing on status. A black British middle class child will be no worse off in any field than a British white child. But a British born Pakistani child whose whole culture has a foreign tinge will be unable to grasp the basics because the parent will be in no position to explain the cultural significance of a subject. This could go a long way to explaining the anger of young Pakistani Muslims who feel locked out of society.
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I feel that a child`s development is a "domino effect" on other children.
In a class where there are a lot of kids whose parents do not speak English, or who resist doing so to please "ethnic sensitivities", their children may need extra help in language.
If this happens, there are less "resources" for kids who come to schools fluent in English and willing to learn.
We have many "special needs" teachers, who are doing sterling work.
But how about for a change concentrating on British culture more and insisting that ethnic immigrants learn or know English as a requirement of entry??
Our education system, in my opinion, seems to cater too much for those who are unwilling to integrate rather than just assuming that all have entered at the same level, therefore teaching to a set English standard rather than wasting resources on "English as a second language". After all, if you emigrate to some countries, (USA for example) you are expected to embrace their culture and way of life. They do not modify their schools system to foreign needs, but teach all children about THEIR culture.
If Britain does not follow this example, soon our own British culture will be overwhelmed by "interest groups" who have no interest in this, only in getting as much of our way of life changed to accommodate theirs as possible!
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Swedishblue # 36 got in before me! Smoking tobacco enhances cognitions so passive smoking kids do better cognitively. Good research always questions it's own difficulties with the bias, but where would you stop. The length of the questionnaire isn't the point ,#37, it's the likely statistical significance of the data amongst differentiated groups.
The hypothesis determines the questions. If the hypothesis isn't proved the Null hypothesis still has validity as information on which to make judgements, policy and decision making.
Mak it's good that you open this stuff p to general scrutiny and discussion. The authors must be very grateful. Most academic research gets consigned to book shelves to be ignored within minutes of being published
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I cant help but wonder at the nature of the tests used to determine the various abilities and development rates of the 5 year olds in this study. Are they genuinely ethnically and culturally neutral? Cognitive development may be "equal but different", but show as "less than" on a scale biased (not intentionally) towards children who are ethnically white and British. The same goes for parentally reported "problem behaviour" different cultures have completely different standards.
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This article is quite amusing, I am positive I read similiar article about 10 years ago and the data it uses doesnt seem to have changed. I am pakistani. I have a very very large social network of Pakistanis who are married and have children above five and funnily enough not a single one falls into the categories mentioned in the above article. I agree there are problem areas with families that need support but please try and do some proper research rather then going to a few inner city areas. Its very predictable. At the same time it does not encourage people to want to do better as it puts each of the groups into several categories. It seems to miss out blatant facts about what happens to the five year old once they reach their teens....do they end of pregnant....or are they involved in stabbing.....how much family morals do they end up with....hmmmmm again its not the pakistanis. LOL
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I think cultural differences are obviously going to have an effect on development and behaviour.. Cultural differences also create seperation...
Pretty obvious really!
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The Indian Hindu minority does very well compared to other ethnic groups and the reason for this goes beyond cultural differences, although they are a factor. Primarily, Indians who have come to Britain since WWII are from middle class backgrounds, whilst Pakistanis and Bangladeshis tend to have been from working class and peasant communities. This goes a long way in explaining the disparities in levels of achievement between the different groups.
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Lol..the comment about Hindu's being from upper class whilst the Pakistanis/Bangladeshi's being from peasants is outrageous. I think the person forgets the history of India, This type of article brings bigots like this person into their element. He/She needs to fall off their high horse. Pathetic.
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WISHFUL AND MAGICAL THINKING
These ordinal trends have shown up for years in PLASC and SATs data. The DfES (as it used to be called) and most researchers are well of aware it and one doesn't have to use sample data as it's available at the population level once children go to primary school. Anyone interested should go to The DCFS Standards Site and look at the Ethnic Minorities data, dismal efforts to address these trends (which now appear to be largely genetic) and look at year after year of Key Stage results by ethniicty.
Research on cognitive ablility and other indvidual differences by ethnicity and sex are solid. Popular opinion (and a lot of what's believed by the educated) is generally radically unsound. In fact, the disconnect between the empirical data and public opnion is quite remarkable, if not worrying.
Readers here might also like to look across the Atlantic to see what ETS was saying in feb 2007 about demographic and economic changes over there (by 2050, the White population of the USA will be under 50%). Others have been saying this for years. People just don't listen. See Newsnight blogs for more.
http://www.ets.org/portal/site/ets/menuitem.1488512ecfd5b8849a77b13bc3921509/?vgnextoid=b87b145891480110VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD&vgnextchannel=9599460b52e70110VgnVCM10000022f95190RCRD
Incidentally, the right wing comprises the fee-marketeers - i.e. light-touch regulators, minimal government, anarcho-capitalists of the Austrian Schol of economics or the Neoconservatives of the Chicago School.
Those who preach equalty in spite of the evidence can always claim caveat emptor when peddling sub-prime ARMs and other loans to imported consumers?
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ladyreason (#48) What crowdedisland (#47) says is true. Large numbers of Bangladeshis come from poor, rural Sylhet, large numbers of Pakistanis came from poor, rural Mirpur. The Indians here are quite different, and it's why they do better than Whte British in school (they are second only to British Chinese). This is largely about genes, assortive mating, and gene barriers.
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Funny how black children fell into the group of 'problem children'. My son was bullied constantly in his primary school, labelled a 'problem child' even on a day he was not even in the school. When he went to secondary school, this labelling suddenly disappeared. Not because my son had changed or matured much, but because he had teachers who knew how to deal with balck boys. Both his father and myself are university educated.
My conclusion, this is a really useless survey.
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TallGalUK (#51) On the basis of a subjective, self-interested, sample of ONE you reject an entire survey despite a large amount of other corroborating evidence?
This just shows you don't understand what statistical statements are and that you don't understand that SOME=NOT(ALL) and ALL=NOT(SOME).
If you met one woman who didn't like chocolate would you conclude that women don't like chocolate?
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TallGalUK "Not because my son had changed or matured much, but because he had teachers who knew how to deal with balck boys. Both his father and myself are university educated."
1) So, you don't reckon your son had changed or matured much between primary and secondary (puberty) school (are you saying he plateaued?)
2) you assert that the Secondary teachers knew how to deal with Black boys (tacitly implying that black boys are different to other boys somehow i.e. genetically/behaviourally?)
3) what's the relevance of you being university educated when half the population goes to university these days (although allegedly, there are more black boys in prisons than there are in universities).
To fully appreciate what I'm saying here (and it's not as critical as it may appear) one has to look to what Black boys are strong and weak in, and how the curriculum has been shaped, and why.
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I think that relate ethnicity as only cause of problems in a child is too simple.
If some children dont have a huge english vocabulary at 5 years old is not because they are from Pakistan, etc but because parents talk more in their language.
If you had asked how many languages 5 years old children speak among races, english children will be in disavantage. All depends of how we see in the glass (half empty or half full of water;-)).
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jovialsnail (#54) Consider: What if your assumptions are wrong? What if it isn't just down to language exposure in the early years? What if it's down to the innate ability of the groups which have migrated here? Note that the Indians do better than White British, and that the group that comes out top is the British Chinese. The ordering we see in these groups repeats the order we see in SATs and IQ tests normed on their own populations (se Lynn and Vanhanen's work).
What language do Black Carribean boys (and girls) speak at home? Why is the 'Achievement Gap' in the USA not being closed significantly?
If the environmentalists are wrong, increased immigration and the higher Total Fertility Rate of those in these groups will ultimately cripple the economy/culture, effectively replicating those of the countries which they migrated from ostensibly for a better life. As I say, 'what if?'
Food for thought?
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Asking parents if they thought they were good parents, I would have followed it up with: What do you think a good parent is? This would tell what is most important for the parent to pass on to their children.
Another question I would have asked the parents is: What are your expectations for your child? And what are you doing to help him achieve your goal?
As you can see, I put the onus on the parent. Of-course, there is no pat answer to all the problems of rearing children, but a lot of future problems can be headed off by what we expect of our children. It's sad to say, there are parents who have low expectations for their children probably because they have low expectations for themselves.
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There is another as yet unspoken dimension, which some readers might find uncomfortable, but needs to be highlighted.
Bangladeshi & Pakistani children (particularly in cities) often attend after school Mosque classes, which will take up the time that could otherwise be spent with school homework.
A central tenet in Islam is that Muslims are here for the afterlife, i.e. Heaven and that this world is merely a test of faith and that worldly desires and expectations come second.
This outlook does contribute towards lower levels of participation in social activities outside ones own ethic group such as clubs and school trips etc later in life. This will lead to exclusion.
Before anyone points the finger, I speak from first hand experience, butmy parents had an outlook similar to many Indian parents, that I could work my way out of poverty through education.
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These stats are interesting in some cases but in other ways need qualitative info (i.e. 'the why'), to make sense.
I think the stat about viewing yourself as a good mother is a bit useless too. I mean, which parents actively promote that they are bad mothers/fathers?
Thanks for the report Mark but I am confused as to how we talk of mutli-racial and then those 'races' consist of 'white' (a colour with no location); black african (a colour coded region); alongside countries of origin (pakistani, indian, bangladeshi). Irrespective of their being no biological basis for race, when we are going to compare 'races' I think we should compare identical origin regions, countries, or continents.
An another quick point 5. delminister makes a point about multi cultural societies always failing and leading to bloodshed, then to prove their point refers to some of the most mono-cultural regions of the world (eastern europe and the middle east).
Back to the point about race equality: if African, Caribbean, and Asian Brits want to be equal to their 'white' counterparts, would that be their middle class or white working class counterparts? Equal to whom exactly: some mysterious average?
Tackle prejudice, ignorance, and discrimination (the causes) and the equalities (effects) - however inaccurate a measure - might follow.
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55. JadedJean. Can you clarify 'innate' ability, and how the class differences within ethnic groups differ given the innate ability. Lynn, Jensen and other hereditarian IQ theorists seem to make these claims without getting to the bottom of why the rates differ according to environment i.e. the IQ rates at Eton are likely to be far higher than those at your local comp irrespective of ethnicity.
I think you may gather from my post that I'm of the opinion that using IQ as a measure of intelligence is extremely flawed and even more so when there is a suggestion that the (IQ based) intelligence is innate.
That said, if Lynn and his contemporaries want to make these comparisons they might at least concede that access to the resources and environmental norms befitting the basis of the study are imbalanced. The fact they don't and persist that we all start with a level playing field is misleading at best, and intended to reinforce race theories at worst.
On the latter point the funders of such theorists e.g. the Pioneer Fund, have a chequered past in this regard.
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