Groundhog Day Revisited
Back in the 1990s it used to be the Drumcree stand off which journalists dubbed "Groundhog Day" because it came around every year in seemingly unchanging form. Now the Ardoyne shops confrontation has taken over - an ugly annual episode which may be repetitive but remains both depressing and dangerous.
The PSNI Assistant Chief Constable Alistair Finlay stirred some political controversy earlier today when he used an interview on the Nolan show to criticise the First and Deputy First Ministers for not doing more to take a lead in condemning and tackling the violence.
The politicians won't be too happy with this - Gerry Kelly who is himself a junior minister in the First and Deputy First Ministers' office points out that, as a local representative, he has been busy trying to calm temperatues in and around the Ardoyne.
However the ACC made a distinction between local work and a more strategic approach. He talked about the politicains needing to have "a plan to meet this type of issue next time it comes round rather than waiting until it inevitably comes next year" and mentioned the as yet unpublished Cohesion Sharing and Integration strategy, which is meant to slowly erode the communal differences which fuel the kind of violence witnessed over the weekend.
Questioned further on this. ACC Finlay's boss, Chief Constable Matt Baggott, also mentioned the need to build a "shared future". However he deliberately steered the focus away from an argument between his force and the politicians. Instead he appeared to be excusing and playing down ACC Finlay's comments when he said some of his officers had been working for 24, 26 or 48 hours and asked for people to be "generous" in responding to comments which "may create political debate but are more about driving forward dialogue".
That said Alistair Finlay's comments haven't emerged from thin air - rather they echo the parting shot from Matt Baggott's predecessor, Sir Hugh Orde, when he told the Stormont politicians last year that they were failing to tackle the roots of sectarianism.
So where do we stand on the "Cohesion, Sharing and Integration" strategy? Progress on this score was a key demand from the Alliance party before David Ford accepted the Justice portfolio. The First and Deputy First Ministers agreed what they termed "the core" of the strategy back in February. But since then a draft has been shuttling between departments and Stormont committees and whilst this Stormont answer promised publication in June that timetable has now been exceeded. The latest guess is that the OFMDFM Committee and the Stormont Executive will approve the strategy for public consultation later this month.
When it comes out, though, will it contain anything which has the potential to narrow the divisions so evident this weekend? Cynics reckon that neither the DUP nor Sinn Fein have any great self interest in eroding the communal blocs on which they have built their political machines. Sinn Fein, in particular, rejects a lot of the "good relations" approach as a British sponsored exercise in trying to depict the problem here as being between "two tribes". Instead republicans insist that "equality" is the key to improving the situation. When you look back at the Education department's decision to slash its own community relations budget then the omens for a change of tack don't seem too promising. So even if we get a CSI strategy published and adopted, will it be pursued with enough vigour to deliver change on the ground? Or will we still be talking about Groundhog Day somewhere in Northern Ireland in 20 years time?
UPDATE 1500: The First and Deputy First Ministers have just condemned the riots - but in an outpoken response Peter Robinson also described ACC Finlay's comments as "unhelpful and unacceptable".
I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~55~RS~)
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In view of the scenes of criminality surely it is for David Ford as the responsible Minister to provide clear guidance on what he expects to be done. Afterall he is enjoying the Ministerial perks he long coveted so let him now show he is up to the job.
From his performances to date I fear he may well fall short of the mark!!!
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As a "blown in" as I have been called I fear that there will be little chance of any let up while those who are causing the problems feel that it is a means to an end. Both sides have condemned what has happened over the last few days along with the Dissidents attempt to disrupt proceedings.
What is needed now is a clear message sent out to all that this will not be tolerated and if caught those found guilty will be suitably punished.
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The PSNI Assistant Chief Constable Alistair Finlay was maybe himself on duty for 48 hrs and was a little worse for wear when he made his comment. On reflection he will see sinn feins approch both on the ground and in stormont as one which is one of leadership. Gerry kelly was on the ground at ardoyne and was indeed trying to calm tensions in an area that dosen,t want a parade taking place without talks with residents. So far the orange order hasn,t seen themselves fit to talk to the good people of ardoyne and try and put together a balanced out come to parades in that area or any other. In stormont sinn fein have been working with other paries to bring about a solution to the parades issue and with the DUP formed a review panel as part of the hillsborough agreement and their brief was to propose a new and improved framework to rule on controversial marches, including a focus on local solutions, mediation and adjudication. Thirty-seven members of the Grand Lodge voted against proposed draft laws made by the parties saying they could not accept them in their present form. It could be said that thirty-seven people are holding up real progress and the ending of the parading issue. Orange men holding up progress and sinn fein showing leadership now thats groundhog day.
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As politically inconvenient as it might be for the First and/or deputy First Ministers, Alistair Finlay is quite right. It is high time that our political leaders did some actual leading. We have a political settlement for the constitutional question for the foreseeable future. Great. Now it's time to build society, innovate and move on. These vestiges of the old Northern Ireland are shameful to us all and it is time to take the harder choices and actually build a better society - you know, one where we have a cohesive, healthy society with jobs and hope for the future.
We have to ask ourselves why we keep voting for those who wish to allow these relics of the old days to continue. It seems they are like the French radical, watching the crowd run by and saying, "There go my people. I must find out where they're going so I can lead them." That's simply not worthy of us and we deserve better.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"Cynics reckon that neither the DUP nor Sinn Fein have any great self interest in eroding the communal blocs on which they have built their political machines."
No need for cynical-specs to see how power is harnessed in N.Ireland; promises of settling scores (either by "equality" or returning to "Traditional Vales") are the so-called policies that have propelled SF and the DUP to the top of the political heap, but the real success is that neither party ever has to deliver on their promises. A pity we can't adapt the success that has been fair employment for political parties, stopping representatives taking seats if they fail to pick-up cross-community support.
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Mark
It is plain and simple. If the Orange Order engaged in peace making moves, perhaps by engaging in dialogue, the situation might be eased. They need to understand, they do not run N'Ireland any more, they are a fringe organisation whom the nationalist community see as a sectarian organisation. They are driving young nationalists into the ranks of the Real IRA and need to wake up and realise this. They are one of the biggest obstacles to peace in this state.
WISE UP AND STOP MARCHING WHERE YOU ARE NOT WANTED; MARCH WHERE YOU ARE WANTED AND THE SITUATION WILL BE RESOLVED
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Groundhog Day indeed Mark, the tetchy tone of Robinson and McGuinness' statement shows how much ACC Finaly's comments have stung them. The PSNI are fed up being put in this position time and again because of the failure of politicians to show leadership on just about every issue you can name, not just parading. The result is injured police officers and money that could be invested in public services having to be spent on repairing scorched roads.
Not so long ago our FM and DFM were only too glad to bring people out on to the streets and stir things up when it suited them. This culture is now ingrained in lots of people and it's being manipulated by the dissidents for their own ends. The depressing thing is that I have a feeling that even if the OO announced that it was going to recognize the Parades Commission, engage with residents and abide by the PC's determinations, scenes like the last few days would still happen.
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I agree completely with his comments. Either we nip this in the bud finally or we just go down the political rhetorical route with usual condemnation and "I'm trying my best on the street" type lip service year on year. The lack of a real plan to deal with this is blatantly obvious and questions should be asked of our politicians what they are going to do to ensure our safety on city streets. Are we going to contine firefighting the problem? Are we to be looked upon as a country unfit to protect ordinary citizens, cowering frightened inside their own homes as a battle rages outside? Are we to be seen as weak, floundering and bumbling or are we going to this year take decisive actions to end this type of stuff? After seeing another year of many millions withered away on security for this lark is it not time our public representatives took difficult decisions and empowered all bodies involved to ensure violence like this is not repeated, thus allowing ordinary people peace and tranquillity. Leadership from a distance is also not as effective as being on home soil.
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ACC Finlay's comments are a disgrace. He is a public servant and in no position to make political speeches, regardless of how widely shared the view may be.
Can anyone imagine an ACC from any other UK constabulary making such a charged political comment? It simply wouldn't be accepted. Clearly the Chief Constable was embarrassed by this incident and made an effort to cover for his subordinate.
For the police and the First Ministers to point the finger at supposed 'Agent Provocateurs', orchestrating these riots is both self serving and irresponsible.
The luxury of believing that communities rioting is the result of some unfounded and sinister external force, is one we can no longer afford in N.I. For three decades the riot has been the primary mode of expressing frustration and outrage, for both sides of the conflict.
It is utterly duplicitous for the First Ministers to describe the recent rioting as thuggery, while stating that the identical behaviour just a few years ago at the Ardoyne shops, or the previous rioting at Drumcree, were the inevitable response of a people pushed too far.
I do not in any way support or condone the collapse of law and order, violence and damage to personal and public property that results from rioting. I just feel that failing to look at the real causes of public disorder will result in a repetition of the behaviour.
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Why are the residents of Ardoyne and elsewhere who feel offended by anti catholic marches going through their areas not afforded this same equal right. -
“The home secretary has said he will back any request from police or local government to ban an Islamist group marching through Wootton Bassett.
Islam4UK says it wants to parade empty coffins through the town to draw attention to Afghan war casualties”.
Mr Johnson said: “The idea that anyone would stage this kind of demonstration in Wootton Bassett fills me with revulsion.
Is this really any different than parading through an area with a banner commerating the murderer of some of the residents of that area.
Does Theresa May or David Ford believe local residents should have to show in some way, outrage or how offended they feel to the local police or government for them to advise the Home Secretary whether to ban a parade that residents feel offends them.
When in Rome do as the Romans do !
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This is the same ACC Finlay that made a political point during the investigation in to the murder of Kevin McDaid.
Without checking the basic facts, he claimed that unionist terrorists were not involved. He should do his job and stop meddling in politics. We have had enough political policing in the state in the last 80 or so years. He needs to go and he needs to go now!!!
The primary cause of the trouble is the Orange Orders insistence on 'Marching the King's highway';
WISE UP AND STOP MARCHING WHERE YOU ARE NOT WANTED; MARCH WHERE YOU ARE WANTED AND THE SITUATION WILL BE RESOLVED. IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
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Note "Ardoyne shops", shops that are shut on the 12th July public holiday. This is not a situation comparable to the Lower Ormeau Road, where residents were genuinely inconvenienced by a parade that was thus, rightly, re-routed. It's not even a Garvaghy Road, where residents of the estate backing on to the road might have been vaguely aware of the parade going past if they'd really gone out of their way to be so. This is pure and simply a sectarian rent-a-mob turning up in a place where they don't live in order to try to create a flashpoint that doesn't exist. Not residents, but dissidents as has been highlighted in numerous news reports — taking advantage of youths poisoned by years of Sinn Fein whispering message of hate into their ears. When even the local priest is prepared to come out and admit that the "residents" are people he has never seen before, speaking with non-Belfast accents, it's a fairly clear sign that all but the most one-eyed Republican cheerleaders know exactly what's going on. However, you get a lot of these myopic idiots on boards like this. The BBC did not help by earlier referring to the people involved as "protestors" rather than mindless rioters, a mistake which is finally appearing to be recified. But still there are attempts to tie the events to intransigience on the part of the Orange 0rder, when they are simply a convenient excuse from these scumbags to try drum up support from a community that is finally rejecting the worst of them (while still enthusiastically voting for "reformed" sectarian butchers, of course) after 35 years. If Ardoyne gets banned, there'll be a new focus next year, that's the true Groundhog Day agenda of those "United Irelanders" who hate their fellow island dwellers
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As a Canadian who lived in Northern Ireland from 1968 to 1983, I see enormous change in the province whenever I return.
Easy as it is the be Bi-Partisan in commenting on the riots, perhaps it would be good for all the parties to step back, stop squabbling about who is "right" and "smell the coffee".
We have just had the G8 and G20 Summits here in peacefull Toronto and what did we have? riots.
Politicians and peaceful residents need to remember that there is an element in each of our societies who will travel hundreds, even thousands of miles for the kick of trowing stones, attacking the "Establishment" and causing Mayhem.
Sadly others who are less morally driven will be caught up in the process and "off we go".
I dont include immature 10 year olds as less morally driven, merely as easily corruptible by the chance to throw and break and pillage. At 10 years old I may have found that "reasonable" too.
Please do not factionalise the issue, not blame marches.
Marches do not cause riots. People do!
Look to the next commemoration Internment day.. it is just another catalyst forthe un ruly to be unruly, nothing to do with the REAL political situation.
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Peterram79
While I agree that the rioting was an absolute disgrace and those responsible, and if so their parents, should be jailed. Let me point out a few things to you. For almost fifty years the Catholic people of this state were given the scraps that fell from the Orange table. Over time they stood up and are now represented by their politicians, in an Assembly that they share power with their former oppressors. The only reason they share power is because the British government had to threaten their former oppressors into power sharing. They are reluctant to give equality and parity to their fellow island dwellers and that is a fact!!!
The Catholic population in this state mostly regard themselves as Irish, you would agree? The Flag of the Irish nation is the Tricolour. Protestants tell us all every Summer that Catholics need to respect the Protestant tradition of bonfires and Orange marches. Protestants burn the national flag of Ireland on their bonfires and Orange men walk behind bands dedicated to dead unionist terrorists, yards from the very spot where these terrorists murdered their victims. I ask you, where is the respect there? The Orange Order is at the root of the trouble every year. If they stopped being stubborn, they could ease the tension they stir up, by simply marching in areas where the people want them.
I will say again:
WISE UP AND STOP MARCHING WHERE YOU ARE NOT WANTED; MARCH WHERE YOU ARE WANTED AND THE SITUATION WILL BE RESOLVED. IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
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Just to show that no side comes out of this with any credit, is the fact that the PSNI Land Rover which was escorting the ambulance carrying the policewoman injured in Ardoyne to hospital was attacked on the Shankill!!
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peteram79 It shows how out of touch with reality you are when you assume local shops are closed for the Orange Order's hatefest day. Maybe you never bothered to have a look at the banners you march under or maybe you think commemorating a murderer of residents in an area you are marching by is just a cultural thing or maybe you believe its right to commemorate loyalist terrorists, either way in any civilised society it would not be tolerated and wont be by the nationalist population. Thats no excause for the violence that followed but lets be honest it was mostly school children too young and stupid to realise they were being used as cannon fodder by others.
And this line is the biggest joke - "But still there are attempts to tie the events to intransigience on the part of the Orange 0rder, when they are simply a convenient excuse from these scumbags to try drum up support from a community that is finally rejecting the worst of them (while still enthusiastically voting for "reformed" sectarian butchers, of course) after 35 years".
The only butchers involved in the past conflict were loyalist butchers from the shankill road Im sure you conviently forgot that along with the widespread violence caused by supporters of the Orange Order after being refused permission to march on Garvaghy Road where senior Unionist politicians were caught on camera conversing with Loyalist terrorists who then went on to create widespread violence and distruction and murder innocent people including children in their pursuit to march. Or did you forget the widespread violence caused by Orangemen and their supporters when they were refused to march up Springfield Road past catholic homes, it wasn't that long ago. By the way are Orange Order parades not rent a mobs who come from everywhere to parade, if they're not from Ardoyne why do they want to march past it.
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Mark
An interesting report by the BBC today. The DUP is failing to properly deal with the Irish language and Ulster Scots dialect. The Westminster government now needs to step in and legislate for an Irish language act. They also need to repeal the Administration of Justice (Language) Act of 1737. The days of coercive and sectarian 'Penal Laws' are long gone!!!
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Bill Corless. Stick to issues you know about or maybe you have selective memory as well. Its like the chicken before the egg, cause and effect and all that. Why do supposedly civilised people commemorate a battle 100s of years ago celebrating the murder and pillage of their religious opponents that they were not even involved in. Those immature 10 year olds are just as immature as the so called law abiding people who wish to have a legal right to annually offend and insult their fellow countrymen/women not to mention the legal right to cause widespread distruction to public and private property every year through illegal bonfires that burn effigies of their fellow countrymen/womens religious leader which some amazingly get council grants for. The rest of society then have to pay the compensation claims and clean up operations every year. You're right society should wake up and smell the coffee.
When in Rome do as the Romans do !
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DiD
These "former oppressors" offered power sharing back in June 1971, of their own accord, through an iniative that Faulkner carried through all UUP power structures far more more easily than Trimble did 25 years later. The SDLP, under the influence of the IRA and the Irish government, threw it back in their faces a month later.
I'm Irish too, but I don't consider the Tricolour the flag of my nation. The UJ and Ulster Banner are my flags. Doesn't make me any less Irish. While I condemn the burning of Tricolours on boneys, i don't see it as any less disrepectful to that flag than draping it offer the coffins of cnvicted sectarian killers.
Jimmy Cricket
Your comment "The only butchers involved in the past conflict were loyalist butchers from the shankill road" pretty much sums up your one-sided joke of a contribution
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20. peteram79
Ah now. Here we have another one eyed monster in our midst. The SDLP are not to blame for the collapse of the 1971 power sharing deal. I will remind you that in 1971, the unionist oppressors initiated internment. They locked up hundreds of men, all most all of them Catholic. That was a sectarian move you will agree???
Read this document and get back to me. I will give you a little quote from it: "On 24 March, 1972 Faulkner and his ministers were summoned to London where Prime Minister Edward Heath bluntly told them of his plans to transfer control of security to Westminster, to appoint a Northern Ireland Secretary of State and to end internment. The Unionist ministers were outraged and resigned. Fifty years of devolution came to an end as direct rule was imposed. On Tuesday 28, March a huge column of loyalists converged on Stormont in protest"!!!
I said, if you bothered to read my comment correctly "The Catholic population in this state mostly regard themselves as Irish, you would agree? The Flag of the Irish nation is the Tricolour. Protestants tell us all every Summer that Catholics need to respect the Protestant tradition of bonfires and Orange marches. Protestants burn the national flag of Ireland on their bonfires and Orange men walk behind bands dedicated to dead unionist terrorists, yards from the very spot where these terrorists murdered their victims. I ask you, where is the respect there?"
The Ulster Banner is a sectarian emblem and does not represent the entire population of this state. It is not a recognised flag of N'Ireland as some loyalists would believe. The Ulster flag is an historic emblem and should never have been manipulated by sectarian thugs for their own ends!!!
Might I ask you how Ireland is represented on the Union Jack???
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peteram79
Did I hit a high moral nerve there? Was there not a gang of loyalist terrorist who used butcher knives to cut up and torture their catholic victims before cutting their throats, and they all came from the Shankill Road and were known as the Shankill Butchers, of course you forgot that just like the violence caused by supporters of the Orange Order when they dont get their way.
Do you consider murder and burning to death of catholic children as an, ends justify the means type of thing in your so called right to walk the queens highway. I wont deny Republicans have carried out acts of violence that are unjustifiable and that it caused untold hardship and grief to my fellow countrymen/women of the Protestant and Unionist tradition and I condemn it wholeheartedly but unjustifiable acts of violence was carried out by all sides in this conflict but I dont believe I have ever heard of Republicans marching through protestant areas with banners glorifying the murderers of the residents of those areas.
If you're going to lecture on a worldwide blog about what you consider "Sectarian" and your assumption of the morals of the people who vote for Sinn Fein at least throw your dirty linen on the table first otherwise people would think you're a hypocritical bigot.
By the way have you got an Irish passport - If not you're not Irish you're whatever nationality is on your passport.
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22. Jimmy Cricket
Good man JC, as always you give a no holds barred account. Fair play to you.
Keep up the good work in showing people that it was not only republicans who were engaged in Violence!!!
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DiD
Nice attempted dodge, but the SDLP walked out of Stormont in late July '71. Internment was then introduced in August '71. The power sharing deal was collapsed by nationalists, and the legally elected unionist government then turned to a different option. Not the other way round.
The Ulster Banner is a "sectarian emblem and does not represent the entire population of this state. Well, right back at you, as the Tricolour is a sectarian emblem when it's used by republicans to mark their "territory", to intimidate unionist and in the colour parties glorifying sectarian murderers. It certainly doesn't represent the unionist population of the island.
As regards the UJ, err, I'd probably say that the St Patrick's cross on it does a reasonable job of being reprsenative of Ireland. Maybe you disagree?
JC
If you could point me in the direction of where I denied that there were sectarian killers within loyalism, I'd be very interested to see it. It was you who tried to play semantics with the word "butcher", almost as if you didn't see the delicious irony of the Sinn Fein DFM, a butcher in both senses of the word. I'd also be interested to discover the names of any terrorists among the unionist MPs and MLAs, you know, to sit alongside the convicted, self-confessed or publicly named IRA members that make up a significant chunk of Sinn Fein's elected representatives.
I'm not an Orangeman, nor have I made any attempt to defend the actions of the Order itself or any hangers-on. . In fact, I explicitly stated my support for re-routing the Lower Ormeau parade. However, what we have on the Crumlin Road is a major arterial route into the city centre, without a significant population on the road itself, and any houses on it of fairly mixed demographics. Even genuine Ardoyne residents, not the bussed in rent-a-mob, would have to go out of their way to be inconvenienced by a parade that goes past an interface to "their" area for about five minutes. It's certainly not comparable to the Lower Ormeau, nor even Garvaghy Road.
The orange order has a ban on any lodge marching behind flute bands with paramilitary trappings, and has done for a number of years. I'd assume if there had been any flouting of these rules, the media would have picked up on thm. But maybe you know different?
And as for your passport comment? I was born on the island of Ireland, that makes me as Irish as anyone, including your good self, whether I hold a Republic of Ireland or a UK passport. I love it when so-called "United Irelanders" are revealed as those who in fact think they're "more Irish than others". But please don't change, it's people like you that guarantee NI will remain an integral part of the British state for generations to come.
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The orange order has a ban on any lodge marching behind flute bands with paramilitary trappings, and has done for a number of years. I'd assume if there had been any flouting of these rules, the media would have picked up on thm. But maybe you know different?
http://prideofwhitehill.com/photogallery.html
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25. hoboroad
"The orange order has a ban on any lodge marching behind flute bands with paramilitary trappings"
This photograph was taken on the Crumlin road on Monday 12thy July 2010.
You call them paramilitaries, I call them terrorists. The UVF, be it 1912 or 2010 - terrorist then, terrorist now. Remember Patrick McKenna was murdered by the unionist terrorist organisation the UVF on the Crumlin road. Bobby Moffat was murdered a matter of weeks ago by the UVF. The Orange Order cannot and will not be welcomed by nationalists, until they end their affiliation with bands dedicated to unionist terrorists who terrorised the Catholic, nationalist people of this state. End of!!!
WISE UP AND STOP MARCHING WHERE YOU ARE NOT WANTED; MARCH WHERE YOU ARE WANTED AND THE SITUATION WILL BE RESOLVED. IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
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24. peteram79
"legally elected unionist government"
I think the term you are looking for is gerrymandered unionist government. That is not legal!!!
"...the St Patrick's cross on it does a reasonable job of being reprsenative of Ireland."
Saint Patrick was not a martyred Saint, therefore the Saltire is inaccurate. It was 'invented' to suit the 'Butchers Apron'. Ireland, along with Wales has no connection to the Union Jack!!!
When Thomas Francis Meagher introduced the Irish Tricolour to Ireland, he had a vision. It is a pity the Protestant people of the island had another vision. That which was played out from 1922 until 1998. That is sad, as sad as the British legacy in Ireland in general. History has been written, you should read it sometime.
Please don't avoid the issue by putting the blame of Ireland's trouble upon republicans. If the British and subsequent unionist governments had played ball, republicans would never have come about - at any stage in our history.
If the Orange Order did not provoke, there would be no trouble. Patrick McKenna was murdered on the Crumlin road by the UVF. This photograph was taken on Monday 12th July on the Crumlin road. Where is the respect from the Orange Order. Time to wake up and smell the burning tyres. (almost) Everyone else has changed. It is time now for the Orange Order to embrace that change!!!
Again I will repeat:
WISE UP AND STOP MARCHING WHERE YOU ARE NOT WANTED; MARCH WHERE YOU ARE WANTED AND THE SITUATION WILL BE RESOLVED. IT'S AS SIMPLE AS THAT
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http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/07/13/photographs-of-the-day-12th-photographs-at-barnett-demense/
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28. hoboroad
What's your point???
I see you have not commented on the UVF band being led down the Crumlin road by the PSNI, yards from where the UVF killed Patrick McKenna!!!
No respect for victims; no march on the Crumlin road!!!
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Disgusted in Derry
No UVF band should be allowed to march through any area when the population of that area do not want it. It was Peteram79 who said the Orange Order banned paramilitary displays at there marches not me. I just quoted him and have provided links to prove him wrong. Hope that clears up any confusion.
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30. hoboroad
I apologise. I was half thinking you were being sarcastic but wasn't sure!!!
You day say that maybe I knew different!!!
Sorry again!!!
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Disgusted in Derry
I accept your apology.
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hoboroad
Thank you kindly. I've had enough conflict on this blog!!!
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