Cons and Pacts
The DUP Finance Minister Sammy Wilson has been breathing more life into the notion of a pan- unionist pact today, writing in the Newsletter that unionist unity offers an "enormous prize".
Whilst some within the Ulster Unionists (for example the South Belfast branch) have made no secret of their support for local pacts, other sources have suggested to me that, meeting at the weekend, many Ulster Unionist executive members were cool about the notion of re-creating the unionist monolith.
Meanwhile the Conservatives look like the ones licking their wounds. Three of their nominees, including two Catholics Peter McCann and Sheila Davidson, are withdrawing their names as potential candidates. According to the Observer, this was because the secret DUP-UUP-Conservative talks organised by the Tory spokesman made some of them "want to vomit" as they viewed it as the "triumph of tribalism over inclusive, secular politics".
Others challenge this account, claiming that some of the nominees has threatened to resign a fortnight ago, before the secret talks were exposed. The allegation is that the potential candidates' main concern was frustration at the failure of the Conservative and Unionist alliance to get its act together.
Whatever the motivation, the latest developments are bad news for David Cameron's experiment in dipping his toe in electoral politics here. The secret talks have prompted angry criticism from the SDLP deputy leader Alasdair McDonnell who described them as "a very negative intervention" at a crucial time.
As the Ulster Unionist communications director points out in the Newsletter, Dr McDonnell has a dog in this fight. If a single unionist candidate fought South Belfast, it would be hard for the SDLP MP to hold on to his seat. However he is not alone in his criticism - at the weekend the Alliance leader David Ford told me on Inside Politics that if David Cameron becomes Prime Minister he could not hope to be a neutral peace broker given his party's approach to the two main unionist parties. And if the notion that Mr Cameron isn't savvy enough to handle the complexities of Northern Ireland takes hold across in the London media, the Tory leader could come to regret his foray into politics here.
Mr Cameron may discount that if the prize is ten or twelve votes within a future hung parliament. But of course a lot of the talk about pacts and re-alignments remains hypothetical. The Conservatives insist that Mr Cameron has full confidence in his spokesman Owen Paterson and that they still intend to contest all 18 seats.
But even if this talk goes no further who is the winner as things stand? I suggest it is none other than the DUP leader Peter Robinson. Wind back a fortnight or so and in the wake of the Spotlight programme the DUP appeared to be in a tight spot. The Conservative and Unionist alliance could now start eyeing up seats like Strangford (where they may very well end up running the former TV presenter Mike Nesbitt) which they could not have hoped to win previously. The maths in other targets seats, such as East Belfast, South Antrim, Upper Bann and Lagan Valley, also potentially to be in flux.
Now though the non-sectarian Conservative and Unionist brand has been damaged. Voters may well wonder whether there's any difference between the DUP and the UUP if they are considering forming one block at Stormont. Sinn Fein, despite expressions to the contrary, have to be concerned about how unionist realignment might change the balance at Stormont. And more to the point the focus switches away from the Spotlight allegations.
You have to hand it to Peter Robinson. Even when he is a tight corner, the DUP leader remains a master tactician.
I'm 
© 2012~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~59~RS~)
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A message to the DUP:
Orange Marches cause instability, and give the community a lack of confidence.
Jobs cause stability and community confidence.
Grow up or move over it's the 21st century not the 17th.
A message to the UUP:
Orange Marches cause instability, and give the community a lack of confidence.
Jobs cause stability and community confidence.
Grow up or move over it's the 21st century not the 17th.
A message to the English Conservatives:
Orange Marches cause instability, and give the community a lack of confidence.
Jobs cause stability and community confidence.
Grow up or move over it's the 21st century not the 17th.
Time to accept that Catholics and nationalist/republicans are people not animals.
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Your right mark, you have to hand it to Peter. As I said, on this blog after the Spotlight program, the DUP would be mad to get rid of him, cause he really is the main man. no-one can take his place in that party, they dont have the experience he as anyway!
yess, david Cameron is being smart also, thinking about if he gets a hung parliment, which is likely it seems. however, in looking after himself, this is bad for the rest of the country!
Please David see sense!
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Mark,
Don't forget Robinson has questions to answer, he's on bought time!!!
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The idea that Sinn Fein are in some way interested or desperate for the First Minister position is another Unionist fantasy. They are not. While it would have some superficial value in terms of point scoring, it really would mean little to their activists and supporters. They know that the Unionists would take their ball and go home, were Sinn Fein to have a First Minister. Proving this would be a little pointless as the tribalism and small mindedness of the pan unionist front is well know both on this island and internationally. Sinn Fein are very definitely achieving their agenda from second place and would be happy to continue to do so.
The Unionist agenda has always been maintaining the status quo. That's the status quo circa 1910, not 2010. They have blown it somewhat and as a political movement they are collectively a busted flush. Republican's do not need a united Ireland in their lifetime to beat their political opponents, they simply need to break the strangle hold on power. Sinn Fein have achieved this.
They have disbanded the RUC, they have disbanded the paramilitary UDR, they have disbanded the armed police reserve gangs, they have made the Irish national flag the equal of the British Union flag, they have made the Irish national language the equal of the British national language, they have forced the release of all their convicted volunteers, they have banned Orangemen for terrorising Republican areas, they have forced Unionists to share power, shake hands and chuckle, they have split Unionism into at least three parts and they have Unionists in fear that they will have an IRA volunteer as a First Minister.
Unionists need to wake up from their slumber and see how far they have come, how much they have lost and how easy it was for Sinn Fein to 'put manners' on them. Do they choose to forget that it was not so long ago that elected Sinn Fein activists were banned from speaking on radio and television.
Aren't they curious why they have lost so much in such a short period of time? The answer is that British people don't like or even approve of Unionism, it's just not the British way to behave. It's not cricket. They see people like Paisley and Robinson and Allister as Northern Irish Mosleys. When the IRA were bombing English cities, it was a natural reaction to support anyone who was against the bombers. Those days are long gone and the average English person now sees Unionism/Orangism as it truly is.
A Unionist pact is exactly what Sinn Fein want, it's a dream come true for them. Nothing will strike the final nail better than people who have nothing more in common than a fear and hate of Republicanism, trying to rule or even work together. No short sharp shock for the Unionist people just a slow and gradual realisation that they are trying to force a Union with a people who do not want them anywhere near them.
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It's interesting that the people who are bigging up the idea of a Unionist pact are the DUP, that suggests that they must be very nervous about the prospect of Assembly and Westminster election. What probably did more damage to UCUNF was the failure of the UUP to put forward candidates, almost certainly so as to put off the day of reckoning over Hermon, Empey must have be desperate for the P&J deal to go through so she could be co-opted into the Assembly as Justice Minister and kill 2 birds with one stone.
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Mark,
How can you say Peter Robinson is a master tactician? It was you, the media that turned the heat away from Robinson after the Spotlight programme? I wonder is this another example of the BBC bowing to the DUP once again.
DisgustedinDERRY,
End the tribal politics.
Stormontspy
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Wolfe Tone
Keep those comments coming!!!
Stormontspy
Yes mammy.
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Stormontspy
I think you should direct that comment at the unionist canvasser's who knock on your door looking for votes.
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DisgustedinDERRY,
I think by now the politicians in my area know not to come to my door as they don't want me to give them a piece of my mind!!
Stormontspy
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DisgustedinDERRY,
Did you ever work out the following -
Did republicans kill to promote a united Ireland?
Did they get one?
Is McGuinness now working for the Queen?
Stormontspy
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Very good Stormontspy that give me a giggle!
Wolfe Tone could you express your wisdom on this English BBC blog. Some people in that country have not a clue!!!
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Maybe it is just me but I just can't see it. I cannot see the UUP and DUP ( and possibly TUV ) joining together into one party. How can they? There is so much bad blood and mistrust between them. Recent DUP comments about a merger, in comparison with how they even recently used to deride UUP on just about anything they have ever done, just seems so bizarre. More than that, it seems desperate. It is as if their only way of holding on to the top spot is to amalgamate with a party they have lambasted and harangued for years. If this were to happen, Reg Empey had better make sure he gets a his pound of flesh. He is in a real position of power here.
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A pact borne of weakness than strength.
I thought it was a coming to terms with the Conservatives, now the Conservatives and the UUP are coming to terms with the DUP. At Westminster this can only be to shore up David Cameron's attempt at forming a majority should things go not so well as once expected for him.
In today's Guardian there is a piece about his policy inconsistencies but what is not in that article is this UCUNF issue, another inconsistent and incoherent stance.
Yes it is good to rant and rave about the glaring opportunism from initially the UUP by going to the Tories for the Tory brand appeal, then even worse still for the Tories to go to the DUP, but in terms of forming an oft-talked-about pan-Unionist pact, once this concept is tried and tested - if it fails what else is left?
And this will fail for Unionist pacts are not ideas or proper plans of action to tackle bread and butter problems, they are instead an indicator of identity appealing to the very lowest common denominator, national identity. It is likely that this big tent Unionism will get blown away for it has no proper political roots, as like the ideas borne of the left-right socio-economic spectrum.
The problem with politics here in NI and why it keeps failing wider interests has been the focus on communal identity politics and religious and terrorist fundamentalism. Their political style is in imcompatible with that required to appeal to the more socially liberal, tolerant and inclusive-minded. Take Robinson, Adams and even Paisley. All are men with doubts over character and judgements. Perhaps even Reg Empey, he's been around so long he was even in Vanguard. I can see why people wanted to "vomit".
Going back to the Conservatives, Labour was mocked for having its Trade Unions and the mocking and ridicule was done over the sectarian nature of the Unions taking decisions over proper public interest, I think there is something of this stigma now resting on Cameron and Reg Empey - and their respective parties.
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Stormontspy
Yes, #30. Now who is looking for an argument, typical!!!
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DisgustedinDERRY,
You never answer the big issue. For years McGuinness plotted against the Queen now he is in Government working for her.
Stormontspy
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Stormontspy
For years the representatives of the Queen tried to murder innocent people from my community.
Martin McGuinness, our glorious forward looking leader, works for all the people in this country, unlike unionism who don't want a Catholic about the place!!!
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Stormontspy
Why don't you phone him and ask him?
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Stormontspy
I speak for myself, I think Martin McGuinness is big enough to speak for himself. It is unfortunate that unionism does not show the political maturity, intellect and manners that Martin McGuinness, our glorious, decent and forward looking leader shows!!!
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More sectarianism from unionism today in regards university places.
My word how we are going backwards.
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Mark
NOT ALL DEVELOPERS ARE BAD
As long as I can remember I have classed developers in the same category as estate agents and bankers. Untrustworthy, seedy and dodgy would encapsulate my feelings towards those professions.
I may have to rethink my views, however, in light of some new information emerging today. The Belfast Telegraph has reported that Peter Curistan (good developer) has offered to underwrite the departmental costs of a full review of Iris Robinson’s lobbying of developers over the last six years. Mr Curistan’s generous offer is in response to Mr Poots’s recent claim that his Department was unable to provide a definitive list of cases where Mrs Robinson had lobbied, as such an exercise would involve “disproportionate” costs. Now as I have already pointed out in a previous contribution (see Post 1), Poots’s excuse doesn’t hold water.
I believe that Curistan’s novel suggestion is the sort of public/private sector partnership that should be pursued vigorously and I challenge Poots to accept this good developer’s big-hearted offer. In my view, Curistan’s offer is irrestible.
Oh, and while I’m on the subject, I challenge Peter Robinson to withdraw his unfounded allegations against Curistan of money-laundering, made under Parliamentary privilege, and subsequently dismissed by the police, a Government department and a High Court judge.
Peter Curistan is innocent; it's time this truth was acknowledged publicly by Robinson
Susie
Carryduff
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#24 SusieFlood
Here here.
Me thinks that Iris is not the only Robinson with foot in mouth.
Hypocrite!!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Moderators, you suck white pudding!!!
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#25 and dozens of posts looking for responses eveywhere,you must have a friend somewhere !!!
Just talk to your posters !!! Someone will respond to your rants !!!
Dear o me !!!
Rants all over the UK blogs !!!
Self promoting/advertising between posts !!!
Brian blethers @ 2.35
Robinson @ 2.17
Advised your complaints and posts were being ignored because of your sectarianism !!! Nationlism and poor humour !!!
"non sequitur" mature,avoid a mere apprentice,close the gates.
Tired of the smoochlie greetings !!!
Grow up and move forward !!!
Disgusted it's your round !!!
Stop "this silliness"(Blether with Brian) !!!
Spin,
want you to leave your spam.and spin the future!!!
Keep believing !
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Disgusted,
Going through Nick Robinson's blog, suprised you kept posting and suggested you were an apprentice before you retreated at Derry's Walls !
Converts as King James II, always welcome !!!
When are we going to have that discussion over parades ???
Disgusted,just let me know !!!
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Mark,
A long tea break since 7.50pm,then remembered your chasing the brain dead/haggis numpties to get a lucid word on Burns Night !!!
Police or no police ???
Will you reveal today those who slurred on Whisky or Whiskey ???
Poots aman of culture !!
Whiskey with an "e" is Bushmills !!!
I'll buy Martin and Peter a pint in the Crown !!! and they can give
me another 10yrs !!!
Disgusted,stop bloging everywhere and start answering the
posts in the Diaries, ask and engage !!!
Not yet time to shout "Close the Gates"
Disgusted, will you respond ???
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Disgusted
"nationalism" or your rant "sectarianism" ???
Difficult times,telling your rant throught the UK !!!
Step up to the mark,open Bishops Gate, and join 2010 !!!
Are you up to it,or just wanting another excuse !!!
How long do we expect you to be a Phoenix or another
SF regurgitaqtor news ???
Time to have "bullet free knees" and those who are able to move on,and
stumble towards 2011 !!!#
Your sense of comment/justice has no place in 2011` !!!
Withdraw your horns !!!
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Mark
LATEST CRISIS IS PAR FOR THE COURSE
In true Fascist fashion, the DUP/Sinn Fein Coalition have contrived this latest round of instability and crisis. In bringing us to another political meltdown they again have provided the ammunition for Dissidents to create more misery. Expect a 'spectacular' from them shortly.
That any voter thought that these Parties could deliver stable government is a notion beyond my imagination.
Crises are the lifeblood of Fascists. If we were to get over this one, you can bet there'll be another one along shortly.
Susie
Carryduff
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Surely why have had these regular crises is because Blair and Ahern chased "the big breakthrough" and the only way to do this was to fudge the contentious issues, such as decommissioning with the GFA and P&J with St Andrews. All this has meant is that the issue has come back to bite them at a later date.
I heard Poots on Good Morning Ulster saying that the DUP never signed up to a date for P&J nor for an Irish Language Act in contrast to what the governments and SF thought. This is because like with decomissioning in 1998 the relevant section in the agreement was written with "creative ambiguity" i.e. fudge, which meant that each party could take it's own interpretation on it.
I don't see any likelihood of a breakthrough but neither will Brown and Cowen want the talks to end in complete disaster. Expect to see a nebulous communique promising "further efforts to resolve outstanding issues," the meltdown will be delayed but not averted. Remember Blair in 1999 at the Castle Buildings talks and "the tectonic plates have shifted?" Look how quickly that unravelled!!
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Mark,
You said in your last 2 lines off your blog post -
"You have to hand it to Peter Robinson. Even when he is a tight corner, the DUP leader remains a master tactician."
Please explain how you can say this? He has been forced into a tight position over Policing and Justice. Furthermore maybe you and the BBC have turned the Spotlight away after some pressure from the DUP. I always thought that the BBC where to be impartial. Would you call this impartial?
Stormontspy
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Spinspamspun
I told you before, sitting up all night in a tissey, drinking whisky without the E and sweating over my posts will give you heart burn.
Talk about ranting!!
Give us a rant on Wooton Basset, oh that's right you can't because it would be in conflict with your marching. I just wonder are you a sash bearer or are you a member of 2nd Battalion blue bag brigade.
The latter me thinks!!!
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THINK BEFORE YOU DRINK BEFORE YOU POST COMMENTS ON THE 'DIARIES'
For a while I thought his posts were being auto-generated by some piece of software, just creating random sentences from word lists. But let's face it, random gibberish would be an improvement :))
"blue bag brigade"
ROFL!!!
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DisgustedinDERRY,
What is your problem with Wootton Bassett?
Stormontspy
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The problem is that some people are appearing to be dishonest and ingenuous in, on the one hand, supporting religious sectarian hate marches that they feel some tribal association with. While on the other, accepting that the people of Wootton Bassett have a right to be left in peace to get on with their lives.
To believe that Islam4UK and the orange order (UK4NorthernIreland?) have different agenda or reasons for wanting to march somewhere they are not wanted, requires a considerable amount of cognitive dissonance and denial.
There are hundreds of marches every year and nobody has a problem with them. We all have a 'tradition', we all have a history. The unwanted 'hate' marches cannot be compared to the marches where people are glad to see the bands and happy to welcome them.
This issue is not about tradition, it is not about culture, it is about power.
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Phewww..i i wish I would get told why my posts get removed. Instead of finding out the following day!
Back on topic,
Wolftone, I refer back to your earlier post, #4.
you said ,"The idea that Sinn Fein are in some way interested or desperate for the First Minister position is another Unionist fantasy. They are not. While it would have some superficial value in terms of point scoring, it really would mean little to their activists and supporters."
I do think yours is a very intresting post, and one I do almost entirely agree with. however, I disagree with your 1st paragraph.
It would not be entirely important to Sinn fein and supporters to get the First Minister title, however it would be good none-the less.
Sinn fein having the FM post would be a boast to their supporters, showing just how far nationalism since the beginning of the troubles.
nationalists, republicans and catholics have been descrimated againist for years; however many of them have worked hard, and got an education in an attempt to beat the system. SF gettin the FM post would show just far nationalists, and cathocils in particular have come.
My post was removed the last time, so hopefully it wont be this time, however if anyone is offeneded by it, I apologise and am more then happy to discuess my opinion within this blog.
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I'm delighted to see common sense on this blog, instead of pan unionism from the dino regulars. Speaking of dinosaur's, I note the absence of spinspamspun7 and his views on Islam4UK versus UK4NorthernIreland (Thanks for that Wolfe Tone, keep them coming).
P.S. Imagine that big fella on the whisky without the E!!!
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