The UUP, the Tories and the "Triumvirate"
The Ulster Unionist party officers are due to get an informal report later today on the work of the internal group which has been examining the scope for closer cooperation with the Tories. I'm told this isn't the group's final report, but the party officers may be updated on the results of research on how voters might react to the advent of a "new political force".
No great decisions are expected, but the clock is ticking. The party's postponed annual conference has now been organised for December 6th and if David Cameron is to be persuaded to attend he will want some evidence that the talk of greater cooperation is going somewhere.
If the UUP wanted to approach this on a step by step basis then the least contentious first move would be to confirm that Jim Nicholson will be a joint UUP-Tory candidate in next June's European election. Mr Nicholson already sits in the same European Parliament group as the Conservatives so it wouldn't be a big step for him. A UUP Executive is pencilled in for November 15th and if they approved this incremental approach it might pave the way for a Cameron appearance at the conference in December.
However there are UUP members who remain sceptical about the wisdom of the Tory link. The views of Chris McGimpsey have already been well documented, and the position of the party's only MP, Lady Sylvia Hermon, remains opaque.
In recent days, rumours have been rife at Stormont about a "triumvirate" of UUP MLAs allegedly so disenchanted about the Tory talks that they might be considering their position. Getting to the bottom of this is difficult.
Some sources suggest at least one of the MLAs might be considering talks with the DUP. A fortnight ago, other sources claimed one politician had contacted the Speaker's office about changing party affiliation. More recently, another politician was reported to be unhappy, not so much about the Tories but more about not being high enough up the order of those due to speak on the topic of the 1859 Evangelical revival!
When we contacted the MLA who had supposedly been in contact with the Speaker's office he denied it. Others don't seem to be in any rush to talk. But some party sources confirm they have been firefighting discontent whilst insisting that "noone is taking any baby steps, let alone giant steps away from the party".
Clear as mud? Well as the Tory-UUP experiment inches forward, maybe the picture will become clearer.
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Hm interesting. What about the SDLP / Fianna Fail experiment Mark?
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'Older' on Slugger and '1850' on Devenport now I wonder who that could be since it isn't RIP, wrong party, who is next in line.
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Who cares is the response. The UUP are a party going nowhere fast and facing elector wipeout on all fronts come the appropriate elections.
Would be worth canvassing the opinion of the East Derry MLA and well known thespian who is capable of having many different opinions on the same subject depending on who asks the question and what he thinks they want to hear.
Better than that if there was a wipe out of the UUP what would happen to the salary of his non working s....e???
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Mark,
If David Cameron believes that he can win votes in N. Ireland why bother with the UUP. All their members have either moved to the DUP or have become so disillusioned that they have left Politics and live on top of a mountain!!!
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Stormontspy talks some rubbish.
I'm a proud member of the UUP. We are the original party of the Union, and without our links with the Tories in times gone by, Northern Ireland wouldn't even exist!
This talk of people leaving is nothing but the over zealous rumour mill working at Stormont while the DUP/Sinn Fein crying match goes on, meaning no real work can happen.
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Fermanagh Unionist
"I'm a proud member of the UUP. We are the original party of the Union, and without our links with the Tories in times gone by, Northern Ireland wouldn't even exist!"
Nice re-cap of the past, interesting of course that you don't mention a single thing about the future. A lot like the UUP as a whole then really!
No-one is disputing that the UUP may well have had a fine past. Its just that the last few years have been shambolic and Reggie is taking his party into a large black-hole fast.
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'The UUP are a party going nowhere fast and facing elector wipeout on all fronts come the appropriate elections'
Really? Young unionists like me are sick sore and tired of the DUP and their religious fanaticism, their appallingly outmoded views on social issues (see Iris Robinson curing gays), and their small minded Ulster nationalism and 'grab and run' áttitude towards the taxpayer on the mainland. The UUP may be far from perfect, but they offer a better alternative to people like me. Thats if they don't join with the Tories. If they do, they will fall into the pit. And I hope Lady Hermon joins Labour if this does happen.
Also like to offer my condolences to Lady Hermon on the death of her husband Jack yesterday.
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Well, as a pro-agreement former Young Unionist I saw the UUP tear itself apart back in 2000-2002. The UYUC was extremely anti-agreement at the time and I saw how members were more interested in who did what (in the party) in the past than what it should do in the future. Even Reg's latest speeches say the UUP did this in the past, etc... I see things haven't changed - he's right, but it doesn't really matter to Joe Bloggs.
I still won't vote DUP and still vote UUP, but the party is at risk of not mattering any more. This is the perfect time to appear, alongside the SDLP, as a true alternative government to the stalled DUP/Sinn Fein axis, but they aren't pouncing. This merger with the Tories was the best news in years as it gave the hope that the UUP would matter again and have a future and a say in a national context (TRUE Unionism rather than Ulster Nationalism) but if they let loud-mouth small fry like Chris McGimpsey (who??) scupper things then say hello to political oblivion and any hope of returning as the party of government and the First Minister's office.
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Ulster Unionism has always been a movement as opposed to an ideology. To tie up with a right wing party alienates left wing unionists, who then do we vote for? I certainly won't vote Tory. Neither will many others. Chris McGimpsey is an influential working class politician, but ask Bob Stoker, Fred Cobain, Ken Robinson and the party's only MP, Lady Hermon, if they would go along with it? If the party can't recover of its own policy and people, it's not worth saving. Thankfully, I think the UUP can recover and will, on its own.
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Fermanagh Unionist,
Maybe all that Fermanagh air has gone to your head. Tell me this. Has Reg flirted with other parties? Did he form a pact with TUV? List his achievements?
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To my mind, the main problem with unionism is that it is currently dominated by the small-minded religious zealots of the DUP.
This has the unfortunate consequence that unionism does not attract significant support from those who aren't Protestants. Research has shown that a significant minority of Catholics in NI support the union but do not vote unionist because of its association with fundamentalist presbyterianism. Contrast this to the nationalist parties who poll comparatively well among protestants- Even I (and a significant number of other unionists in Foyle) was comfortable voting SDLP at the last general election.
And let's not forget the growing number of people who belong to neither 'community' in NI. Which would you choose? The DUPs religious bigotry or Sinn Fein's message of equality? We need to attract these people to unionism!
Therefore, the only future for the UUP is to position itself as a party of more liberal and tolerant unionism. This does NOT mean latching on to the Tories- having to keep the Tory Whip on all issues will lead to similar problems to Scottish Labour's- i.e. a perceived lack of ability to stand up for local issues.
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ptlondonderry...
my sentiments exactly. a younger, more progressive leader, without strong ties to the past would be an idea. which can attract left and right wingers as a centrist movement, rather than being a conservative only party
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The UUP and DUP are splitting unionist votes on their own. They would be better to merge together than split the vote. The DUP and UUP both agree that Stormont is the only answer. They both want peace on the streets. Why not get closer to eliminate Jim Allister. He can offer nothing to anyone.
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because the DUP discriminate against catholics gays and anyone else the bible tells them to. because their environment minister thinks climate change is a conspiracy theory. because the DUP is too right wing for many unionists. because the DUP dont give a damn about the rest of the union. and because the DUP cant and wont try to appeal to more than protestant voters
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What made Jim Allister change his mind and split with the DUP to fly solo?
Jim Allister criticises the DUP for adhering to the manifesto he helped construct. Every single day Jim engages in a continuing assault on the mandatory coalition he helped create. In his European election manifesto in 2004 on page 8 it clearly states that ?there are three potential forms of administration which could be formed?. Guess what? One of those three potential forms of administration was ?a mandatory coalition involving all the major parties?. If Jim genuinely believes that mandatory coalition cannot and never will work as he has stated since March 2007 why did he run for election on a manifesto advocating an administration in Northern Ireland that he now claims to oppose so strongly. Did he not support his own manifesto?
Further more if Jim never thought mandatory coalition would work why did he jet off to the United States and pose for pictures with a copy of Devolution Now under his arm?
Did he not realise or did he simply not care that that document, like his manifesto, supported mandatory coalition as a possible system of government?
In February 2007 Jim was out campaigning for the DUP vote with leaflets say ?DUP ? Getting it right? The same document he helped write. In fact Jim was on the campaign trails many times. Jim was in West Belfast with Diane Dodds, East Londonderry with Gregory Campbell, North Antrim with Mervyn Storey, South Antrim with William McCrea, South Down with Jim Wells and Fermanagh with Lord Morrow and Arlene Foster. Even 2 days before the vote he was on the campaign trail with Lord Morrow. How can someone change his mind within a short space of time? It appears Jim is happy to live of the DUP name.
How quickly he has forgotten what he sold to the unionist people.
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Modernunionist, you say who do you vote for as a left wing unionist if the UUP join with the Conservatives? Why not join Labour and try to get them to stand?
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cybereagle
I'd take Labour any day over the Tories but I'm not quite sure Labour would work in NI for a few important reasons.
1. Labour's history of supporting the withdrawal of British troops from NI doesn't go down too well with unionists generally. Plus, many mainland Labour members don't really support the union between GB and Northern Ireland. Not really what unionists want to be associated with.
2. NI is very different to the mainland and having to follow the Labour whip wouldn't draw support from a sufficiently wide cross section of unionists e.g abortion laws.
3. Competition from the SDLP- I know it sounds silly but many Catholic voters who support the union currently vote SDLP- I think there's a risk of splitting the (already quite small) moderate vote.
4. Who would vote for Labour? Middle class unionists (who tend to have less extreme political views) are less likely to support a left-wing party. And the working classes (with typically more extreme political views) are likely to continue to vote for more extreme unionist parties. It's difficult to see where the mandate would come from.
Obviously, this is just my opinion... would be interested to see what the rest of you think...
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Sorry- in respect of point 2 in post 17, I realise abortion laws are not an issue on which there would typically be a Whip enforced- I really meant that the general consensus withinin the Labour party seems to differ on quite a few issues with unionism. e.g. abortion laws, 11+, the rights of gays...
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I can certainly understand your opinions on Labour, moderateunionist, but I gather the fledgling Labour Party members here very much intend contesting elections, and certainly agree with you about Labour's stance on the Union, but if we can get people from NI who would be more inclined to support Labour if they lived in GB then we might be able to change that opinion - by having no-one to counter their past policies inside the party they've grown unchallenged! So maybe it might be for the greater good? And I've never really bought this argument about competing with the SDLP, I've never seen them as a "Labour" party!!
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'Modernunionist, you say who do you vote for as a left wing unionist if the UUP join with the Conservatives? Why not join Labour and try to get them to stand?'
If they join the Conservatives, il try to join Labour. Though not under the Irish Labour Party as some are suggesting. I'd vote PUP if the UVF disposed of their weapons and disbanded
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