Google and China's chess game
It might be regarded as one of the slowest chess games in history, given that it took Google two months to make its move to stop filtering results on its Chinese language search engine. But it is also one of the most dramatic.
Professor Jonathan Zittrain, co-founder of the Berkman Centre for Internet and Society at Harvard University, told me that Google's play has certainly upped the ante.
"This now puts China in the spotlight to answer the question of whether or not they want to filter a site that is legal in Hong Kong. My guess is there will be a lot of discussion before they do that and it will be done at a high level."
In a blog post, Google has said it recognises that China could take action and block its services. To that end, it has launched a webpage to monitor what services, if any, are being blocked.
Ever since Google went public about the cyber-attacks it suffered back in December, it has occupied a lonely stage. While it was very unusual for a firm to 'fess up about such a breach, the other 20-or-30-odd companies that got hit have all more-or-less stayed hidden in the wings.
Similarly, after Google took what has been seen by many as a bold step in ending censorship of its results, support has largely come from advocacy organisations and pressure groups as opposed to big named technology companies.
So what does this mean for other high-tech firms doing business in China? Will they come out and follow in Google's footsteps? Most commentators seem to think not.
"US companies in China will have to balance the concerns about complicity with their ability to provide access to information," said Leslie Harris of the Centre for Democracy and Technology.
"There may come a point where you need to consider whether you continue to operate in the market. It is going too far to say every company must follow Google's lead."
Professor Zittrain said he doesn't expect any big names to put their heads above the parapet any time soon.
"Other companies are basically hunkered down under the table waiting for their parents to finish fighting. They don't want to get into this," said Professor Zittrain.
Even if you are the world's most powerful internet company, one imagines it can't be easy going up against a regime like China's. With its economic might and its growing internet population of over 384m, many might have expected Google to play safe rather than come out fighting in this way.
Some might have preferred a more softly-softly approach - or so hints a survey released by the American Chamber of Commerce in China. It indicated that an increasing number of US firms are being made to feel unwelcome in the country.
"There are questions about the durability of Google's new position, and whether we've reached a tipping point in terms of Western firms and their ability to navigate the political shoals of doing business in China," Jacqueline Newmyer, president of Long Term Strategy Group, a Cambridge, Massachusetts-based defence research firm told Market Watch.
But a brief interview that Google co-founder Sergey Brin gave to the New York Times leaves no-one in any doubt that for him there is a very personal aspect to all of this, suggesting that there was only ever one path for Google to follow.
He lived in the Soviet Union until he was six-years-old under a totalitarian regime that clamped down on political speech. Mr Brin admitted that experience left its mark and affected his thinking and that of Google's policy.
"It has definitely shaped my views, and some of my company's views," he admitted.
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~27~RS~)
Comments
It perturbs me when the United States keeps trying to foment disturbance, even uprisings between countries. Doesn’t the United States have enough trouble on its own home-front?
Do you think that situations like: putting China in the spotlight on whether they want to filter a site that is legal in Hong Kong can be created without the support of the United States Government?
Ask yourself why this goes on.
Do you see the picture of Chinese/American relations? Do you recall
- the problems with the yuan
- the weapons shipped to Taiwan
- the visit of the Dalai Lama to the White House?
I could list many more examples, but I'm sure you get the idea.
This American chess-move has nothing to do with “a bold step in ending censorship”. This is just another another step to irritate, cause disturbance to China as she prospers and the US rapidly slips downhill.
Since when does the United States care about about complicity or access to information? The US is the country of greatest spin - so much spin it probably keeps the world turning.
What the US cares about is remaining # 1, but this positions is slipping away quickly; in fact, the United Nations is now talking about replacing the dollar with other currencies.
The US has created what it thinks to be a winning strategy against China, but if you glance down, you will see exactly what the Americans are standing in.
Here’s what I believe: The Chinese play better, more strategic and more long-range chess. They will solve this issue, as they have solved other issues. They will make their move, and before you knoiw, it will be: Checkmate!
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Is seems the arguments of post #1 bear no relation with the actual contents of the blog, unless they are suggesting that Google is some sort of instrument of US foreign policy, as opposed to an independent company.
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(Re: the first comment - Chinese representatives have explicitly said this isn't a China vs the US issue)
I haven't been happy with the level of involvement Western companies have had with China for quite a few years now. I applaud Google for taking the stand they have. Imagine what would happen if they applied a team of their engineers to defeating the Great Firewall?..
Of course it won't happen, but if enough foreign governments become unhappy with China and their barriers to Western investment and co-operation, all it would take is a round of stiff trade tariffs to throw China into turmoil.
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Blueberry you are clearly a chinese apologist. Someone has to take that role and I am sure you expect a fair amount of vitroil thrown back at you.
But
1. Google is not part of the US govt, what decision it takes are its own affair and as the blog indicates are, in part, influenced by the founder's treatment by Soviet Union.
2. Yuan: personally I agree with you, there is a lot of nonsense being talked about in US on the Yuan. Ultimately you will need to go on a full floating rate but there is nothing unusual in economies such as yours which have not been mature open economies for very long, adopting a resticted exchange rate policy for several decades.
3. Taiwan is an independent country. You may not like it, you may wish that they merge with China, but it is clear that they are an open democracy where the people have exercised a right of self determination to rule themselves.
4. As for Tibet and the Dalai Lama - leaving aside that the Dalai Lama is one of the world's most respected religious figures, what China has done in Tibet is unforgiveable
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Google wants to appear to – as its motto puts it – ‘do no evil’, especially after the evil of taking over Facebook which as one of their internal emails commented was fuelled by 80% illegally loaded content. I think they are trying to gain the moral high ground before perhaps pulling out of China. Google’s search engine share in China was at 30% last year before this all kicked-off, but that is under half what it achieves elsewhere in the world. After four years of trying perhaps they have had enough?
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China will join the world of more open information or not. China is moving slowly in that direction and hopefully the reactioaries will not respond with even tighter controls. Here we have a private company taking a position that governments will not. Human rights of the Chinese people is secondary to the business interest in other countries and their foreign offices hold that position. The moral higher ground of the West no longer exist....look on any street corner and smile for the camera.
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This all started when China sold some $35 billion worth off US bond in December 2009. Us retailiate by selling arms to Taiwan, Dalai Lama visit and using google to stir up trouble. Google in its parts are not doing very well in China anyway and use censorship law as an excuse to wound down operation in China. Meanwhile US made it known that Google like many US companies are tied to US government control and Google is merely an extension of US government foreign policy.
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Of course one can speculate or even state things ad infinitum about who is using what and why. Of course the US can't quite make claims of being champion of human rights and openness of information, nor can Google claim that as a company it takes decisions like this purely based on some moral grounds.
But... The facts remain.
China is following a long line of certain regimes that existed in history. Like all past and present regimes, it has the same schizoid problem: on one hand is perfectly happy to suppress thoughts, opinions and even people even, but stays awkward about acknowledging those actions for what they are. And invariably overcompensates, trying to convince itself, with vast tirades ranging from topics such as meddling in internal affairs to various rights and laws (which is always tragicomic) to Kafka-esque speeches about right and wrong...
So as many other such regimes and leaders in the past and present, whenever their actions are commented, or heaven forbid, acted upon, China also 'condemns', gets 'upset', sensitive and 'feels' various sudden emotions - and throws its toys out of the basket.
There is a remarkable consistency in all those regimes' reactions throughout history, only the context and means may differ - the essence remains the same.
This little storm in a tiny teacup is just adding a footnote to all that historical consistency. And whenever the regime talks about not going into politicisation, well, it's a true gem.
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It is interesting that Bluesberry frames the issue as one of winning and losing. How the US and China are playing a great, global chess match and China is going to win. But the truth is that China lost the internet censorship game back when it decided to censor the internet thus depriving it's citizens of all of the internet's benefits.
And insinuations that this is some kind of US plot to destabilize China amount to a backhanded insult to the Chinese people. By implication, theyre saying that the Chinese can't handle an uncensored internet and it would lead to "chaos."
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This has as much to do with China wanting to protect its own internet companies than it does censorship. Google has been operating perfectly under Chinese law but last year they had their service serious distrupted amidst allegation of pornography in their search results. Rival Baidu returned the same results but saw no criticism or interference. Google was temporarily offline for awhile and ran slower when it came back. There was even some suspicious the Baidu placed pornography into Googles results to force the issue. Then you had the case of Google users being re-directed to Baidu in China. The hacking was the last straw for Google after years of other interferences. China blocks Facebook, Youtube, and Twitter but identical services are offered by Chinese companies. Plus we are completely open to all Chinese web content. I've heard China practices the door half open economy, they allow any product or information to leave but they make it as difficult as possible for products and services to get in.
China constantly claims its blocking and distrupting services to 'protect' its people from potential dangers of the internet. But how would they act if Western nations suddenly put a block on Chinese food products and toys to protect the health of our children from the potential dangers (ie toxic chemicals) those products often bring with them. This is about more than human rights, China is practicing blatant protectionism in an area of their economy where foreign companies have an advantage so far. It's time someone called them out on their ridiculously protectionist practices and brought the issue to the WTO or better yet went straight to retaliatory tariffs on Chinese dominated products until our products are given equal access to their market.
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#1:
You're obviously a plant for the Chinese Communist party. This kind of nonsense comment may work in a totalitarian state, but in the free world not so much. Try again.
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Note: comments on internet boards supporting the PRC in broken english are likely to be commentators working for them, eg. Bluesberry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Army
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Regardless of blueberries said, I think what Google is doing is right. As a Westerner who has lived in China, and seeing that many Chinese people have supported Google in its bout against the Chinese government, change should come with more freedom of the media.
Sometimes, the bar has to raised higher, such as Google has done, for this change to come about. Now, it might not come soon, or some hard-liners might try to push it the other way, but as we all know, the whole world is watching, and I'm sure the Chinese government will act accordingly to that pressure.
Image is extremely important to the Chinese government, especially for control and for its relations with other countries and their business. China has chosen to open up to the world, with this comes its consequences, whether may seem good or bad to the Chinese government.
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Google is just being hypocritical thumbing nose at the Chinese.
It goes to show how ignorant Westerners are about China today. Most so-called knowledgeable Westerners are still thinking very colonially about China, or else in the Korean war era. Google leaving the biggest internet market and the fastest expanding market is silly over picking a fight with the Chinese government. I find Baidu much better in providing information. Google just has not put enough investment into the Chinese content. One good reason is their having 3000 employees [Cantonese speakers] in Hong Kong and only 700 in Beijing. I speak all the dialects and laugh at the Hong Kong people who are still lost in China. All the other arguments are nonsense. Being hack is not the excuse to attack the Chinese government either. Google does not even answer how many times a day they provide the US “security” forces details of all of us world citizens’ web activities.
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With this episode, I think the greater question that must be asked and answered by Chinese Govt is, why does it censor the web? Does it believe its citizens like their web content to be filtered/censored?
Google has acted very bold with its decision though this might adversely impact their financial performance to some degree...
I like Google for what it has done. And strongly feel that other corporations should put more pressure on Chinese govt and stop censorship.
Parents put adult-content-filter on a computer that their kids use. But like all adults of the world Chinese should decide what content has to be filtered, not government.
This age is too modern for a Great country like China to still tackle issues with censorship.
If you do not let it out, it will come out one day.
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google is a big company, china is one of their markets but not the only market. google is about reach out the world not just china. i am sure google has a play book. It's basically simple they will follow the golden market principle which is to provide the best services and products, now they are in HK, they could do so. i think the game just started...
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Win Te Pu:
What's curious is that Baidu has lost considerable market share in the last year. As of 2010 Google was up to 36% of the market vs 58% for Baidu. Google.cn is ranked 3rd most popular web site in China on Alexa.com after Baidu adn QQ, and even more surprisingly Google.com is ranked 6th most popular web site in China. Also if Baidu is superior in Chinese languages why is it far behind in HK, Macau, Taiwan, and Singapore? Google is not running aways, it's trying to make a point.
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I am just really happy they, the people of the Warsaw pact, defeated the communist dictatorship at our doorstep in Europe in 1989. Luckely, we, the Europeans are now free of this smoke and mirrors game. The empire of evil has fallen in Europe. The owner of Google knows all too well how this evil inhuman system works. When will the poor workers of China have their rights respected and have freedom of speach and thought? When will the people in power truely care for them, instead of enslaving them for production?
We in the West were promissed change in China via trade by our governmenst. A softly, softly approach. I have not seen any change toward human rights and freedom in China for the last decade. All I am regestering is wage slave workers, mass producing goods to power the dream of the communist elite. Instead of being allowed to pursue their own dreams.
BluesBerry, your arguments make no sense in a free society.
They only make sense in power hungry dictatorships. A Communist dictatorship will never be number one, becuase we in Europe will never listen to unelected dictators. liberté ou morte!
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Since the announcement on Monday from Google, I have felt that it is important for all users of the internet to support Google's stand against censure and repression. I am amazed that a public corporation would take a position on ethical and moral ground and I cannot countenance the deafening silence of Google's competitors. Therefore I decided to support Google by using their products, including Chrome!
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As for the cameras, China is covered er.. littered with them. Most public areas are under some sort of digital monitoring. For those mouthpieces who wish to dispute this, please open your eyes once in a while.
Jeric has the right idea... It's all about making sure Chinese companies get ample opportunity to use the IP they have stolen from Western companies.
The following poster says "Google has not put enough investment in Chinese content" ... lol Typical and so lame. Complete failure to remotely understand the Google search model, or even basic search concepts. Should be "China has failed to put enough investment in Chinese content" --- 40% - 80% of Chinese language sites are rehashes of each other with so much content stolen from the Chinese originators that no one wants to post anything original on a Chinese language site. Don't blame Google for not returning all the duplicated, stolen "dao ban wen jian."
As for search results, need to have that conversation with the censors. Which sites are filtered for which results for which engine is their doing -- they control the network, nothing to do with Google or any other the search engine.
International companies and investors have put billions and billions of dollars into China's pockets (not to mention the consumer markets in the west buying all those Chinese made goods). Now that China mistakenly sees itself in a 'better' position, it's decided to stop squeezing western companies and just tell them to get out. The Google mess has nothing to do with "abide our laws" and everything to do with "now that our Chinese companies have stolen your IP, reverse engineered it, and are in the same market, you western companies need to get out. We Chinese do not need you any more. You have nothing left for us to steal."
Yes. There will be the hate mongers from China who will use foul and broken language to assail this idea. Truth is not something they are used to hearing / reading. Would that were not the case since the moderate Chinese voices are never heard on these boards; only the mealy ones.
What to do? What to do? How about this: We all take our toys and go home. That includes all the infrastructure built with international technology and all the various and sundry equipment owned by international companies along with everything that was stolen (IP). All the international companies demand compensation from China for their stolen IP and all the businesses who lost sales to Chinese companies due to unfair competition laws demand equitable compensation for lost business (as some of the Google sales companies are demanding). Then, no one in any other country buys anything made in China ever again. And to put the icing on the cake, the US decides that it is going to not repay any of the notes held by China. It says, "sorry" we don't want to pay you, we have decided not to recognize that contract as binding because we have changed our laws to make it so. And walks away, just the same as China has repeatedly done and would do again given the opportunity.
In this way, China can have what it now appears to want: a country free of any "foreigners" and completely run by local companies. Quite a change from the "welcome international friends" approach of just a few years ago.
However, instead of the mean-spirited "get out" vitriol spewed by a tiny (in all ways) minority of Chinese, western countries will continue to welcome and provide shelter and opportunities for the millions moderate Chinese who denounce tiny-minded hate and venom and still wish to live in a free and democratic world.
Oh, and the holier-than-thou bozo who can speak "all" the Chinese dialects... really? All 56 minorities languages plus all the 300+ regional dialects. My my. What a great big brain you believe you have. And then the woodsman came along... just in the nick of time.
The evil venom and hatred being cultivated by too many of the young Chinese today (especially on some of the boards) would make their parents and all their ancestors so ashamed they would disown them and never speak to them again. Their grandparents are rolling over in their graves from pain and shame.
These hate-mongers present the "wrong" face of China. Too bad the majority of intelligent, reasonable Chinese don't find out how they are damaging China's reputation in the world and stop them. In a few years, when all their hate has eaten them to the bone, they will not have anything to hate but themselves.
Then what will become of the next generation? Maybe, they will invite Google and all the international companies to come back and we will all start over again. History is such a good teacher. Too bad the hate-mongers prefer to cut class.
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Despite Google having the "don't be evil" slogan, what "good" thing did Google do? Google have violated copyright and privacy law over and over again this time just the Chinese law. Google clearly said in 2006 that it's better for the greater goods of doing business in China despite it's censorships. Now more than 3 years later it realizes it's business is not successful so it pulls out of china with the most ridiculous excuse ever. First it says 2 Chinese rights activists were hacked. only 2 people, out of how many people that's getting hacked daily? and how does google know those 2 were Chinese rights activists without reading through those 2 people's emails which clearly violates privacy law. Everything other excuse google gave were a contradiction of what they said in 2006. Clearly it made more sense that google pulled out because baidu was the greater player. and at whoever that says chinese only accuses google over pornography: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/china_rebukes_google_baidu_not_filtering_pornographic_content
About the censorship issue, it's the local law, just like the US censored scientology a while back, the majority doesn't care. Just like westerners looking into china and feeling sorry that Chinese doesn't have "internet freedom" because a few contents that only 0.000001% of the population cares about is being censored. The Chinese also feels sorry for the westerners that they lack the basic "internet freedom" of sharing music/movies they bought on the internet.
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Im surprised that the BBC allows many you to share blatant misinformation. Considering this is a news site we should all keep our opinions to your self and stick to the facts.
1)The US Government has not censored Scientology, although I certainly wish they would. And what does this have to do with Google anyway?
2)30% of China's search volume is a HUGE number. It is billions of searches and billions of dollars. They arent giving up because its unprofitable - all of you who mentioned thing need to think before speaking. Would you just give up a billion dollars profit for no apparent reason?
3)I think many of you seem to think that Google is somehow deeply embedded in the US Government, and that there seems to be some sort of US conspiracy. The fact is that Google is a company, with very little political power. They can do what they want on their own accord and 99.9% of Americans could care less.
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Personally I have a lot of respect for Chinese people as I have read a lot of Chinese history.
I wish that the Chinese people and American people can get to know each other better.
Chinese workers have suffered so much over the last 100 years I am very concerned. Yet I know they are strong and will prevail no matter what the current dictatorship.
I'm not sure what Google has in mind with their current actions. Yet, I must support any company that refuses to allow themselves to be intimidated into limiting the freedom of the Internet.
So, I support Google and I will use their search engine 100% of the time now, and I will examine all their products to see which ones I can purchase. Because, I will support Corporations that have integrity buy purchasing their products.
BTW, Win, I know China is a modern industrialized country and do not think of it "colonially."
Neither do our "Security" forces patrol the streets of major U.S. cities and murder our citizens when they mass together in popular protest . . . even against the actions of the U.S. Government and/or Armed forces.
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Let us not be carried away by patriotism and nationalism comments/observations
Lets step back and do some research.
Try google or yahoo! "Google and CIA". Looks like everything that we have read and heard is a big eye wash. I'm certain you will be as astonished as myself.
1) Watch this first
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YsZcHmDZhQ
2) http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2006/061206seedmoney.htm
3) http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/111657-0/
4) http://www.threadwatch.org/node/9612
5) http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article3652494.ece
6) http://www.infowars.net/articles/march2008/310308Google.htm
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More info:
Google censored scientology in 2002 proof:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_by_Google
The stats about google's market share are from non-chinese stat-tracking sites (e.g alexa, or statCounter)
How these sites works is that when you go to a site that's in the network of statCounter, it will plant a tracking cookie on your computer and it will keep track of all the sites you've visited. Since none of the chinese sites are in the statCounter network. A Chinese user must visit a foreign site within the statCounter network to be tracked. It is impossible to predict how many Chinese people visits foreign sites, and if these sites are within the statCounter network, therefore it is impossible to reveal the real market share of google in China. But one thing we know for sure is that China only accounts for less than 2% of google's profit worldwide.
Chinese government is neither a dictatorship nor communist. It is a socialist government. It is the best government for a country with 56 ethic groups where 1 ethic group is taking up 99% of the population. If China were to turn democratic, the other 55 ethic groups are going to be screwed.
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just another way these govmts (China, Iran, Venezuela) oppress their own people to stay in power. i applaud GOOGLE for their decision!
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It is a very unfortunate situation globally at this time.
You may find documentaries that may perhaps show the following scenario. A male guppy finds a very nice rock that he may live under. Very nice home for this male guppy. The next scene shows a female guppy is also living under the same rock and the male guppy is now protecting hundreds of eggs that the female has laid. Next scene shows another male guppy has spotted this happy paradise and decides to invade. Purposely to remove the standing male and take over the position of standing male with a happy female fish and hundreds of eggs to care for. The two males fight and the standing male wins as the invading male is driven off. Offspring are born and both male and female tend to their care.
How long must a government's foreign policy allow itself the ability to place military bases in foreign countries. This projects a mentality that the locals are subject to foreign defense and can not defend itself.
How long must a country's business policy allow itself the ability to start businesses in foreign countries. This may mean that the locals must rely on foreign economic aid and can not exist economically by its own hard work.
Perhaps it's best to be asked before one takes without asking.
Anyway, as far as Google, it's amazing this company can not abide by the laws of China. Google should have brilliant minds that work for it, and should address each concern of Chinese law correctly. It should be relatively simple for the programmers employed by Google to meet China's requests one by one. Google may even gleam some innovation for itself by meeting the demands, instead of letting one country's propaganda butt heads with another. Business is business, as they say.
To say that it was Americans that made America great is perfectly applicable, similarly, it must also be acknowledged that the only people that can make China great must also be the Chinese people. America can not shape the future of China. No chinese citizen will ever agree or even allow this. America must remain American, and China must remain China.
Business acumen should be practiced by Google, not politics.
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Firstly, I am not Chinese, but I want to ask few questions to our fellow westerners:
1) Do you live in China? or have you ever been to China or tried to understand its culture? If yes is not the answer to any of these questions then you have no right to question their ideologies.
2) Every country has its own local laws/regulations. Citizens and the operating companies need to abide by these regulations. If you are not a part of it or if you are not being affected by it, why do you care? Chinese population is 1/6th of the whole world. They can decide for themselves and bring about a revolution (if they need) to overthrow the existing rule. I firmly believe that it is not our business to meddle in some other country's affairs.
3) If google believes in an ideology and if it does not align with a country's ideology then it should NOT be in that country. I appreciate the step taken by the google to exit China but I do not agree with the whole anti-China sentiments raised by the westerners.
4) Business is feasible only if it is mutually beneficial to both seller and buyer. If one of them follows certain principles which may appear outrageous to the other then the other should not carry out the business transaction.
That is, if we think that China is manipulating its currency then we should discourage business by imposing duties on Chinese goods. Of course that will affect negatively on both economies.
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Both sides are backed in a corner.
The Chinese government cannot stand if they don't smack down Google, hard. The only victory for them is to drive Google out of the country, probably by making operating there impossible. Every Google service will sooner or later be blocked. The exit of Google will be a loud and clear message to every foreign company operating there, namely, don't ever forget who is the boss.
I think Google knows this is coming, and is going to embarrass the Chinese government in the eyes of the West as much as is possible. If they leave with the reputation as an Internet service provider that defends the privacy of its customers, even when it costs them money, that is something that will be remembered by their customers for a long time.
Finally, it should be obvious the real reason this is happening: it was the hacking incident. The Chinese government wanted to know something about Google's customers and the information they wanted was not being stored in China. They decided to steal it by breaking into servers on foreign soil. Google caught them red handed and then had the temerity to call them on it.
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@Capslock
Your post might have more "anti-Chinese sentiment" than any post here. Are you suggesting that censorship and oppression are a part of Chinese culture? I think that the pro-China stance here is that an uncensored internet will not lead to "disharmony" in China.
If anyone is "meddling" here it's Google and only Google and they're free to do whatever China will allow them to do. If China decides to give them the boot then I'm sure that's a consequence Google is prepared to live with for illegally not filtering it's searches. But if doing so makes China look bad then that's China's own fault for having a bad policy to begin with. When the US enforces bad laws (the death penalty, for example, is unpopular in many parts of the world) it looks bad too. Like the US, China is not above criticism.
I do agree that Google probably should have never entered China in the first place but better late than never. It's hard to complain when Microsoft and Yahoo! are more than willing to censor themselves for a tiny, tiny share of the Chinese market.
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I tried to be netural, but being a supporter of Google I am kind of disappointed and is trying hard to turn to Yahoo now , withdrawal syndromes ..
While I am enjoying 100% freedom in searches, I am loving it with Google but I see it has gone over the fence when it comes to this issue. It is like telling your neighbour how to teach their children and when your neighbour refuse to listen to you, you pull their children over and teach them yourself.
Google seemed like unable to give up the China market completely, if you are that cool , wanting to mind other family's business, do not be half cool, please be totally cool. While I enjoying reading the success story of how Google set up its business, I am now questioning their wisdom. Think before you do, if you plan to have sales and research presence with a country, do consider the level you wants to play.
Google has slowly becomes a joke then once a hero in my heart
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I fully support Google here. It is about time a company puts morals before profits. It will be interesting to see how this develops, will this be a catalyst for a more free internet? How long will it be before the Chinese people get fed up of the oppression and fight back?
This is not about attempting to 'westernise' Chinese culture, it is about basic human rights of individuals. Freedom of speach is of paramount importance in any society - preventing people from expressing their opinion is to deny them a part of their humanity.
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I would also like to add how eye-opening it is to see so many propoganda posts from the Chinese government here. Rather than convincing me of their point of view, these posts are further evidence to the oppressive nature as they are proof that the Chinese government puts its own agenda before the rights of its people.
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I commend Google for standing up against the horrible Chinese government.
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@CM2188
I'm a little curious .... on what basic did you based your conclusion that the Chinese Government is propagating this blog with their propagandas?
I'm certain BBC has the statistical evidence of IP addresses from where posts are being posted on this blog.
@Jeric
Do your research... Singapore is no China. It is the most westernized and cultural influenced society in the East with a good mix of both Eastern, Western, Northern and Southern heritage, mindset and influence.
Majority if not all Singaporean uses English as the medium of communication, hence the popularity of Google, Yahoo! and AOL as search engines of choice. Baidu is available for the few that are fluent in Mandarin.
While we are on internet filtering, China ain't the only places where censorship is imposed. It is widely practiced in Europe, Middle-East, Asia-Pacific Rim, and inclusively U.S.A.
Even American close allies like Australia is practicing filtering censorship.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100323/wl_asia_afp/australiauschinaitcompanyinternetgoogle
The only difference between the others and China is that Google with the American Government is politicising its "problem" in China.
There is more to it than what is printed, heard and read on mass medias.
As the saying goes .. A lie if repeatedly used and left unrefuted and unrebutted will eventually be accepted as a truth despite it being a lie.
To those uninitiated, China is no longer what it used to be.
China has been through every system of governance.... Monarchy, Nationalist, Communist. You name it, she has had her share of it.
The governance of today China is anything but communism!
Thanks to Deng Xiaoping China has evolved from being a communist state to being one that is modeled after the Singapore model of governance.
An Authoritarianism Socialist state. It aint perfect, but it does leaves food on the table for all if not the majority.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jul/01/civilliberties
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Actually, trying to examine Google's decision from a realistic viewpoint, it's seems awfully like the entire country of China is now experiencing what any average American experiences when trying to deal with corporate customer service.
You call as a customer, want to get some answers or explanations regarding your bills and service and what happened, and you get runarounds, lies, made up stuff from the representative who tries their darndest to follow coporate policy (which actually changes on a monthly basis.)
You request service that is on the blink, but because where you live, it requires infrastructure to be reworked, it may take years to get the service you want.
You get penalized for just doing business with corporate america, because you're doing business with america.
This is now happening with an entire country doing business with coporate america. Wow!
So what, if BBC hypes up a routine corporate slip. So what if journalist scout out opinions. That's the job of journalist. So what if individuals are encouraged to be vocal in democratic countries, that's bread and butter attitude, very common. It's not like people really know what goes on behind closed doors, and people will never know, it's just media results that are reported.
The events being portrayed by the media are actually not that very significant. Life goes on. Thank you.
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@Josh censorship does not equal oppression, Chinese people are not oppressed, at least in the last 20 years.
The censorship took place because it is for the greater interest of the majority of people that does not want to see those contents that are censored.
The Chinese people are now boycotting google.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8584985.stm
It proves that the one that's causing hatred to the citizen in China is not the Chinese government but Google
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@tommy
I disagree, it is a form of oppression when political dissent is being being censored. It's not the worst form of oppression taking place in China today but it's still a practice that should be ended.
And I understand that the oppression was worse 20 years ago but I don't think that really helps your case. China is still an authoritarian state.
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I really believe that non-Chinese countries have this one 'huge' misconception about China. China in english thinking translates to Authoritarian. This is simply lost in translation.
China is a "common sense," market driven culture. That is all. If that translates to the naming convention of Authoritarian Socialist state, I'm sure 1.3 billion Chinese people will be please by this naming convention. It is not the fault of Chinese people that in English, it's Beijing or Peking.
Back to Google, I know that Google can turn their stance completely around and continue to do good business with China, but unfortunately, something about western psychology and mental association tells me Google is going to continue their 'uncommon sensical' charade for a bit. Maybe it's the western ego. It's never going to cut it in China. Wisdom must prevail. Google only has to realize that good business will always continue, based on supply on demand and common sense management to ensure this continuity. Bad business, where supply and demand are not being met, will eventually end the relationship, and I would hate the reprecussions of some lay people associating Google with the west, and China with well, mysterious and mystical China, the far east, the orient. But that's just the way it is I suppose.
I certainly don't want people to associate themselves with their bank balances, or their cars, or their houses. That's too much!
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@Josh
Then yes, Chinese people are happily oppressed. if that's your definition of oppression. Note that the political dissent about China are mostly from foreign countries, the citizens couldn't careless how other countries accuses their own government. Fact is the majority of the people in China loves the Chinese government and has great respect for them. It is this government that kicked Japanese out of the country during WW2, it is this government that pulled over 30 million citizens out of poverty in the last 30 years and bought China to become the 2nd wealthiest country in the world and will become the wealthiest by 2020 (predicted by economists) . With this in mind, other minor issues the government have are not issues. The citizens are aware of the censorship and have no problem with it.
The whole attack on Chinese government reminds me of the dihydrogen monoxide hoax, where a student convinced 47/50 people to vote to ban water. Without telling them that the chemical he described is in fact water. The Chinese government is like water, it is an essential element in the citizens lives.
China is not an autoritarian state, it's prime minister is elected. If you don't even know the basics of how China works, please do some more research before blindly accusing another country.
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You know, if economics wasn't thinly (or thickly, depending on view point) disguised by 'play' (I'll just call it that), and was done fairly. There would be no need to float any currency at all. Take the number of people on the planet, assign each person an x amount of currency at birth, give it the same equal treatment by the governments sometimes inability to keep on top of populace growing or shrinking, multiply that same amount of currency by inflation or deflation, each person is basically worth the same amount of money. (common sense is at times difficult to keep up with, yes?)
Throw on top of this basically fair assessment things like capitalism (sp?) and you already have introduced unfairness. The monetary worth of each person being the same, gets skewed, as money floats from one individual to another, to an institution to certain individuals thereof. This basically degenerates into the fairly old 'haves and haves not' mentality that has plagued human beings since the middle ages, at least.
If each person on this planet was alloted money due to their inalienable human rights on an equal basis, there would be no cause or concern for worries anymore.
It was difficult to keep track of all this money and business simply inside one's own country, and now we are into the age of globalization. Money never grew on trees, all western countries I'm aware of owe money, whereas taxation is still the only legitimate means of income for governments, why do governments get involved in non-legitimate methodology?
There should be no government on this planet practicing showmanship. It's just cheap pretending. If in due time, all economics was conducted fairly, it fair to say that countries who simply possess the biggest populations would have the most money, each person's income being roughly the same, determining GDP and such.
China has been China for a very, very long time, it's been practicing the same methodology just as long. Back when the west thought the world was flat, China can produce boxed noodles. It's plain hypocracy to say that China manipulates its currency, when it's really the guilty calling the innocent guilty simply by knowledge of it's own guilty way of doing things.
Anyway, back to Google again.
I've noticed time and time again from politics to business, the men in charge have lost their professionalism.
Only time will tell. I would like to ask the co-founder of Google who grew up in Russia, to please refrain from mixing his personal experiences in his youth to how he conducts his business affairs.
I would like to ask Google to be a law-abiding global corporate citizen.
I would like to ask the same thing of Microsoft, I've noticed they are much better today after being sued by the European Union several times to be more fair as a global corporate citizen as well.
I have also seen men in the american government get personally involved in the recent Toyota hearing. I do not like to see this loss of professionalism in any man. It impedes correct progress.
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@tommy
You raise a lot of issues but but I just want to focus on how they all seem to relate back to the idea of how the Chinese people overwhelmingly support the government of China of and it's policies. If that's true that's great! It means China is a strong, stable country which makes you happy and it means there's no need to censor political dissent (because no one would take the dissent seriously) and that makes me happy.
However, maybe I'm just cynical but I suspect that's not the case. I suspect that China censors out of fear.
And, forgive my ignorance, but my understanding is that Wen Jiabao was merely approved (as in, he ran unopposed) by a legislative body composed entirely of party approved members. If so, we not only have a different understanding of the word "oppression," but also the word "elected."
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Allows me to clarify the "Authoritarianism Socialist State" statue
Most authoritative Socialist countries are capitalistic.
Authoritarian in the sense that it is a One Party rule.
For Singapore it is the PAP, for China it is the CCP).
They tightly controlled the resources of their country but allowed for massive capitalization of industry. Under their authoritative socialism, capitalism thrived and the nations became rich.
China became an authoritative Socialist state by Dengs' china opening and has become prosperous and affluent.
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@Neutralistic_View
Singapore has had a strong Western influence, its official language is English so everyone speaks English as a 1st or 2nd language, but it is more than 70% Chinese and most of them speak Chinese at home and simplified Mandarin is taught in school in addition to English.
HK, Macau, and Taiwan all choose Yahoo and Google over Baidu despite large Chinese populations and close proximity to China. I don't believe the majorities of these populations are extremely political in this type of decision making (most seem to want a better relationship with China), so I can only they've chosen Google and Yahoo because they offer them a better service than Baidu (whether it be due to the lack of censorship or quality of search results).
In the long term, assuming China keeps censoring and blocking web content it deems unsuitable, Baidu and China's social media networks will never make it outside of China as long as China protects them against a level playing field. Only competition can force significant product improvement and in China it is severly limited.
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@Neutralistic_View
"While we are on internet filtering, China ain't the only places where censorship is imposed. It is widely practiced in Europe, Middle-East, Asia-Pacific Rim, and inclusively U.S.A."
Other than Iran, I can't think of any other country in the world that outright blocks Youtube, Facebook, and Twitter. Other countries have issues they believe require censorship but they don't seem to have a problem with Facebook, Youtube, or Twitter. The fact that China is on the same page as Iran when it comes to censorship speaks volumes about the nature of the regime.
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@Jeric
You seem to have "forgotten" the fact that despite the predominating Chinese population in HK, Macau, Taiwan & Singapore, ALL have one thing in common... they have had been under the influence of colonial rules... HK by the British, Macau by the Portugist, Taiwan by the Japanese, Singapore by the British.
HK and Macau is now Chinese, but both still maintain the life-style and mentality of being "westernised" and globalised.
Taiwan is "Chinese" but under American defence umbrella. Hence more westernized than the so nicknamed "plumkins" of yesteryear across the straits. Technically both are still at war. Anything Chinese was tabooed prior to 2008.
Despite its fast growing and expanding business, Baidu caters primarily to the Chinese mainlander. Hence its lackluster popularity outside China.
Google, Yahoo! and AOL on the other hand are more popular as their internet contents are the opposites of Baidu. Moreover, these are the "pioneers" in search machines and free email accounts.
Protectionism is widely practised. Don't just pinpoint the Chinese.
Even the world largest democracy India practises protectionism. Europe too is not free from protectionism. Just look at the protectionistic acts EU have on textile, shoes, steels etc...against non-EU produces. These are used to protect its domestic market. If the West can, why can't the rest of the world, inclusive China???
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@Neutralistic_View
China was also under Japanese colonial rule for awhile just like Taiwan. But I have a hard time believing Chinese people living in those countries today carry any loyalty to their former colonial rulers. Particularly this generation of internet users who have never witnessed war in the region. But perhaps there is a bit of distrust toward services perceived to cooporate closely with the CPP in these regions. Still Google and Yahoo would be struggling against other competitors if they didn't have a strong Chinese search mechanism.
Protectionism is widespread but China, for all its bickering against other countries protectionist practices, is one of the worst offenders. Internet services, entertainment, and video games are a massive industry in the West and one of few areas we can compete competitively with China on their own soil. What they're doing can't be compared to a simple tariff on shoes or steal pipes, it would be more like outright blocking large shipments of Chinese electronics. Yet due to ill-defined international trade rules regarding trade in these industries they've managed to get away with what would be considered outrageous protectionism in any other industry. In these industries, early market exposure and brand name carry a lot more weight than any other so the damages they are doing to our companies will be massive in the long run.
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@ Tommy,
If China is so great, why is it copying the West?
Measuring itself continuously to the West?
China will not be able to see eye to eye with the West untill it is fully Democratic.
China was the largest economy for centuries, yet its people were dead poor. Size of the economy in itself means nothing, it only makes sense when compared to the popuation size. For example, the EU is 30% of the world economy with just 8.5% of the global population. China will not surpass that wealth per person with the current trends in eighty years, if they will ever get to that level.
If the Chinese are so overwelmingly in favor of the Communists, the Communists should not be so afraid of an all out popular vote. Fear is what rules China and fear is what will hold it back from reaching its full potential. Terror and fear is the way of the Communists. Can you really trust anyone in China? Can you really say how you truely feel? Power over others is what dictators hunger for. Less bad does not equal good.
Chinese Prime minister elected? He is appointed by a rubber stamp parlement. Can any Chinese start his own party and run for member of parlement, or Prime minister? Does the Chinese parlement hold the supreme power in China? Please Tommy, you are the one that needs to get educated. You know next to notting about representative Democracy. By the people for the people. In essence it has nothing to do with party politics.
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Ah the freedom of China’s citizens comments free from influence. I bet your minders smiled approvingly at your perfectly scripted replies and will reward you well.
Search for your reward at google.cn Hong Kong
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This conflict reminds me of the story:
The Emperor's New Clothes
An Emperor who cares for nothing but his wardrobe hires two weavers who promise him the finest suit of clothes from a fabric invisible to anyone who is unfit for his position or "just hopelessly stupid". The Emperor cannot see the cloth himself, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing unfit for his position or stupid; his ministers do the same. When the swindlers report that the suit is finished, they dress him in mime and the Emperor then marches in procession before his subjects. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing at all and the cry is taken up by others. The Emperor cringes, suspecting the assertion is true, but holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.
China netzins are reminded of truth is in what they see not what they are told to see.
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After reading comments posted, and about the issue on various sites,I understood that using internet has become a political issue.This concide with the BBC's documentary on the net:super power.
Irrespective of the advantage that its inhabitants gain from using a particular site,if a regime felt like or forecast a tech titan is more likely to create problems-bear in mind that creating problem isn't absolute,it would block,censor or hack its e-mails.Inspite of international pressure to treat things with ease,it would answer with evil vemon and hatred. There fore,except political ideology,nothing exists.
This is what happened on Google's China's firm.Eventually,the move from Chiense officials' entails thwarting Google.It seems like China wouldn't have paitence for rampant western companies on its soil.I don't understand why U.S. officials declined to defend it.As the report I read by Maggie Shiels revealed that Google might be torch bearer for infant sites,which are currently blocked.
Never the less,one should understand,that if he were a citizen of a country which saw economic boom from the dust in less than 100 yrs.,would he let other companies to take over its reputation?
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It's rather like the whole piracy/torrent debate: like the sites that allow the sharing of files, Google is not responsible for the content it's search engine throws up. If I were to import printed anti-Communist leaflets to China, China would take me to court, not the post office or whatever courier I used.
Ultimately however, China is in the position of King Canute. It cannot prevent what goes onto the internet, and if there's stuff on the internet it doesn't want its citizens to see, the only thing it can do is prevent access to the whole thing, which would be extremely detrimental to its economy.
However, I don't see what China's problem really is. I can go on to the internet, and read about other countries regimes: it doesn't make me want to adopt their regime, even if I think it's better than here. And isn't Communism all about doing the will of the people? If China's people want to access certain sites, then surely China's government is not being Communist at all, but is a dictatorship masquerading as the "people's" will.
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This whole Google-China story has a very familiar feel to it. Remember back in 2003 when the chinese president received a Boeing airplane that was littered with bugs controlled via satelite for spying purposes? This kind of espionage, both governmental and corporate has gone on for decades. Google has simply exposed that the emperor wears no cloths. The hard stand taken by Google is what is needed to draw the line between private enterprise and foul play by foreign governments. In due time all this will be quietly resolved just like the Boeing airplane affair.
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In the end, it is a calculated gamble done by Google. With only 2% profit to risk, there is nothing to boost about. I am agreed the co-founder of Google made a very good gamble with all situations analysed, there is nothing Google will lose in the short term, however it is done in a strange manner. Perhaps, he will learn something from this. In the end, Google will win some and lose some.
Perhaps, it is better to be more well read and try to see things from a different point of view. Insisting you are always right will not build understanding. I am actually not impressed by people who pressed their rulers on other people, who are you to judge me ? Keep up with times and do not still stay in the 1990s metality, human race keeps on progressing, and ideas have to be reviewed again and again.
To me Google is just pulling out a Drama, there are certainly delighted audience. Of course , they have their own reasons which I will not content. As the world contains people of different views, I am not impressed by Google , perhaps that is the reason why the world is so interesting, there is more than one kind of people breathing at this moment
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I tried to mental profile life inside China and came up with this scenario.
Mom, Dad, why does the website say This information can not be found due to government policy?
Child, what were you querying?
Tiananmen Sqaure.
Ah, that was a very embarrassing moment for Chinese people. According to Confucious, the laws of proprietorship and filial devotion were not followed. China became emotional on that day and history changed. The people embarrassed the heavens, our ancestors, each other, and our descendants.
Young students who thought they knew it all after just a year or two in college, demanded seven things from the government. The governed became the blind dog who bit its master's hand.
1. Reevaluate Hu Yaobang and his achievements, Affirm as correct Hu Yaobang's views on democracy freedom and tolerance;
Hu Yaobang is only one man, his time would be over in his own life time. It's very short compared to ancient China. China has been around since the dawn of time and will be around till the end of time. Why worry about just one man? That is short-sightedness.
2. Renounce the Anti-Bourgeois Liberalization campaign and the Anti-Spiritual Pollution Campaign;
This again is just shortsightedness. Buddhism is found upon the 4 Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. There is suffering, suffering must be analyzed, suffering will cease, suffering has ceased. Correct Aspiration and Intentions, Correct Speech, Thought and Actions. Correct Concentration, Consciousness and Effort is the correct path.
3. Freedom of Press and Freedom of speech, Permit citizens to publish independent newspapers;
More short comings of hot-tempered young students. Go to school and over night become know it alls. Since China is a school of thought first and foremost, we must catch up to the church of economic development, yet never imitate nor take up their ways. Western press is all about bad news and suffering. Intelligent people should present good news and sell this in the newspapers. We must do more to mitigate and alleviate suffering. At the present moment, chinese people are not ready yet.
4. Publicize the income of the Party-State leaders and their family members;
Again, this is embarrassing, considering demand 6. Understanding psychology, this indicates the mind of a common thief. Why not demand that all the incomes of all people in China be made public? This is fair to all people.
5. Rescind the Beijing municipal government's "Ten Provisional Articles Regulating Public Marches and Demonstrations";
This is the most embarrassing of all demands. Behave as criminals and asked to be given more criminal rights.
6. Increase budget for education and raise intellectuals' salary;
Why not just ask for the increased budget of all people? Especially the people in the west of China who are much poorer. China is not at all affluent and wealthy.
7. Report the student movement objectively.
You must understand the way much better child. Only with wisdom will objectivity come. When the Chinese government censored this topic, it forced you to ask your mom and dad why it was censored. This is the government's way of telling us that it has forgiven the people of China's transgression that day. It was a very heavy handed punishment indeed.
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Google is a company, and it decided not to do business in China. China is an independent sovereign country, it has the right to regulate every company that is operating and doing business in China.
It is so simple. cannot understand why people make such a fuss over it. So you love Google, So you do not like China, So what ??????
Why you westerners are so afraid of difference? Yes, in certain points, China is different. Time eventually will prove whether the difference is better or worse.
Have you even been in China? and how much do you know about China and its people? Don't play and stop playing your ignorance in here!
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I think the whole issue of the Chinese censorship is somewhat misrepresented in the West. I'd imagine our understanding of "liberty" in the West is different than the Chinese understanding of liberty, but that doesn't mean we don't have any limits.
The printed and visual media have strict limits, so why do we expect the Internet to be free of any controls? For example, no British journalist would write an anti-Semitic (just an example) article, but some Brits might be tempted to do so online. Would you turn a blind eye to them just because they commit their crimes on the Internet???
In my opinion, the law that applies to the old media should also apply to the new media. In that aspect, Chinese Internet companies should comply with the Chinese law.
I'm not saying we should all be conformists. The laws are there to be stretched and poked, the law is dynamic by nature. However, not everything that is "illegal" is progressive. The only problem is, we probably do not agree on what's progress and what is not.
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All way leads to Rome . Do not always insist people to walk your way , as you would not like other people to choose your way for you.
Do not criticized until you are in the same shoe and walk the same distance as other people.
With all the wisdom of humans, with introduction of all sorts of government and ideas, I have yet to see a perfect world. We should be constantly learning and stop pointing fingers and say each other is wrong. Which can be sure you are absoulutely right ?
Any offence that is condemned is justified under self defence. All the goodness done under selfish reasons are condemned. The world is more like shades of grey than black or white. Wasn't we living in a wonderful full of differences ? Wasn't we always somehow thinking our parents are forcing their ideas on us ? They are not wrong, but that doesn't mean we are not correct either. This is just the world we are living.
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Logic_Reason wrote:
I have yet to see a perfect world. We should be constantly learning and stop pointing fingers and say each other is wrong.
--------------------
Once China was closed to the world and stuck in old world ways. In time it sent explores out to harvest different ways and learning and has benefited greatly from the knowledge and change it once feared and resisted. I have read on the internet of things discovered from ancient past of china that tells of discoveries and applications of knowledge far ahead of its time. Yet the knowledge of those discoveries was lost to the winds for centuries buried in past repressions.
Just as a one who crosses a desert and in search of water thirst heavily when he discovers water he will drink much for a time and may at first have ill effect s trying to drink too much to quench that initial thirst. But in time that water when plentiful will be sipped as needed to sustain him and keep the one healthy, a balance of intake will appear when water is in abundance much as the freedoms of information will the people of china.
If truths are feared then perhaps those who control are ashamed of what they do.
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The recent history of Google and China are mired in inaccuracies and misconceptions but most importantly, their relationship is continuing to evolve over time. From what I have read on the internet, Google has imposed some form of censorship over information which it delivered to Chinese customers; China has imposed some sort of filter on Google data traffic to Chinese citizens; Google has since removed its self censorship of searches made by Chinese citizens and moved its base of operations to Hong Kong.
So far, everyone has played the game well and their purposes have been moved ahead. Google stands of unrestricted freedom of information when it suits them and reserves the right to change its mind. China's actual position of censoring information moving to and from its citizens has not changed; rather it plays an increasingly sophisticated public relations game in order to appear vacillating between both polar extremes of total freedom and complete censorship.
I find neither Google nor China's position laudable since both players are acting in their own self interests which have nothing to do advancing Chinese citizens toward freedom of information.
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I understand that western countries may always be interested in trivia ideas, to these certain countries trivia details are often times important I may think.
One simply can not compare a business's inability to follow the laws of a country they are operating in, to the country itself. It does not even matter if the business (Google) might be considered THE business in its particular industry. The truth is, it is only A business.
China is not ruled by fear, nor will it ever be ruled by fear. Fear is firmly in the domain of the mind present within women and children only. I find it very dull that people take it for granted that there are the same people all over the planet with the same basic dreams and ideals. The current fascination of the west with China is completely unfounded. There are close to 7 billion people on the planet. It is unwise to develop rampant self-ascertained notions over other segments of human beings solely on the basis that one does not know another. No one invited to the BBC blogs ever bothers to simply ask questions. It is just one hypothesis and propositions after another, based on the sole direction of it's countries popular media opinions or unpopular opinions.
There is nothing wrong in asking mature adults that hail from any particular region of the globe which you may have a genuine interest in and asking cultural questions in the spirit of seeking genuine answers. It is very obtuse, simply because one does not know of another group of people to spread hype and lies.
History seems to repeat itself quite often here. First the irrationality involving Russia during its Cold War era and now this irrational attention focused on China. What will happen when South America or Africa also gain prosperity measured by the progress of the industrial movement? Will the west began yet another few decades of unreasonable behavior and internal speculations?
It's folly, to believe that the combined people of Asia, South America and Africa do not share the same fundamental dreams as Europe and the United States. There will always be cultural differences that drives the oceans of people on this planet.
What dumbfounds me, is that the important work of Europeans and their descendants who have factually contributed to the pioneering of rapid technological advances have failed to notice something so obvious to the remaining cultures on this planet. The remaining cultures of this planet are perfectly happy with progress, as long as it is done slowly, surely, and correctly. What the remaining cultures do not wish to neglect is our natural biological clock. What is the use of technological advances if family becomes dysfunctional? Western countries have all but neglected the natural biological cycle of good women who all deserve a lifelong happiness with their families and relatives.
The great risk that western countries accept at this present time in history is not acceptable to the remaining cultures of this planet. I will end this comment with a question that you may perhaps see again in the future. What is your opinion of cultural diversity?
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I don't think this is about Google trying to keep face, preserve the moral ground or look good in front of anybody. Google is a business, and a profitable one at that.
It's easy to romanticise the whole thing... but why wouldn't Google do all it can in order to secure a percentage of the online search market in such an 'untapped' country?
Pff.
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Despite Google having the "don't be evil" slogan, what "good" thing did Google do? Google have violated copyright and privacy law over and over again this time just the Chinese law. Google clearly said in 2006 that it's better for the greater goods of doing business in China despite it's censorships. Now more than 3 years later it realizes it's business is not successful so it pulls out of china with the most ridiculous excuse ever. First it says 2 Chinese rights activists were hacked. only 2 people, out of how many people that's getting hacked daily? and how does google know those 2 were Chinese rights activists without reading through those 2 people's emails which clearly violates privacy law. Everything other excuse google gave were a contradiction of what they said in 2006. Clearly it made more sense that google pulled out because baidu was the greater player. and at whoever that says chinese only accuses google over pornography: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/china_rebukes_google_baidu_not_filtering_pornographic_content
About the censorship issue, it's the local law, just like the US censored scientology a while back, the majority doesn't care. Just like westerners looking into china and feeling sorry that Chinese doesn't have "internet freedom" because a few contents that only 0.000001% of the population cares about is being censored. The Chinese also feels sorry for the westerners that they lack the basic "internet freedom" of sharing music/movies they bought on the internet.
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In reality all Google has accomplished is a halting of their upward move in their stock. It's down 50 points since this all broke. That's it folks. They caused us investors some heartache and heartburn. For what? What have they accomplished?
There are cases where people sustain that Chinese government controls search engines results like in this case: http://www.financialcrisis2009.org/forum/Corporations/Do-you-realize-yahoo-google-and-microsoft-support-china-39-s-censorship-272283.htm
Oh yeah, wait a minute. Now the whole world knows that China is difficult. Yep. Got it. Nice going Google!
P.S. The guys from business insider posted a great picture on this subject:
http://www.businessinsider.com/google-pulls-out-of-china-2010-3
Martin
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