Why America deserves three cheers
My dear friend Lexington is leaving America to live in cloistered seclusion in Hampshire and write occasional columns about what's left of British industry. His parting shot is typically brilliant, though I think he and almost all other commentators on America fail to make the really difficult link between the God-awful screw-ups (Iraq etc) and the staggering ability of the place to revivify and refresh and keep pulling the world in the right(ish) direction.
The whole point of America is that you CAN fail. Really badly. And America itself does, regularly. But the failure - the harshness and the unfairness and the ugliness of much of American life - is what drives the place ever forward. So come on Adrian (whoops - let the cat out of the bag) let's add the third cheer...
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Justin, you are being very generous in your assessment. I hope we can live
up to your expectations. This will be a very difficult period on our history,
but I'm sure that we'll make it through.
Check back in 5 or 6 years - that's how long it's going to take for us to
really get back on track.
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"The whole point of America is that you CAN fail. Really badly."
Youre absolutely right, that is what bankruptcy is for.
And it's also why so many people were disturbed by the nationalization of companies that were "too big to fail".
"But the failure - the harshness and the unfairness and the ugliness of much of American life - is what drives the place ever forward."
Well, I wouldn't quite put it that way, but your blunt assessment certainly brings to mind a few well known phrases that give hints of this American phenomenon: the "living constitution", our "great experiment in Democracy", and "America is a work in progress".
Presidential campaigns also play a nig role in this narrative. In times of national distress, economic or otherwise, Americans usually respond favorably to campaigns like Obama's "Yes we can!" campaign. Once the hardships go back to being less widespread or less noticeable, most people are ready to declare "It's morning again in America" like Reagan did in 1984.
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This comes near to being ridiculous Justin.
if you want to find countries that bounce back from disaster you cannot do better than France Germany and Japan. From a nuclear bomb Japan has gone on to have the longest lived people and a powerful economy, Germany has one of the strangest economies in the world, after cataclysmic devestation and France pulled itself together after two murderous conflicts and invasion.
Switzerland manages to give its poplace a very high standard of living by avoiding catastrophe as does Sweden, these are very commendable traits surely. And neither country has the beggars and poverty you see everywhere in the US (and throughout the Americas to be fair).
The US will bounce back to an extent, 300 million people are not going to starve to death or dissapear or die of swine flue .
And you comment about Iraq is frankly offensive. The Iraqi families mourning their dead and injured relatives killed and injured by daisycutters and slick triggered US mercenaries are not going to "bounce back" are they?
Its OK to say, we tried and failed, but when people, be they arab or not, die as a result of that failure it behooves reeporters at least to be a little less cavalier.
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Most of our problems have been of our own making, but as you pointed out we have managed to come back time and again and recovered from our ill conceived foreign interventions, fiscal irresponsibility, and from the philosophical and social excesses that allowed the worst members of our society to take advantage of our naivete and idealism to enrich themselves at the expense of their fellow citizens and the future of our country.
Our strength depends, to a large extent, on the diversity of our society, the sense of nationalism that emanates from such diversity which does not exist in many countries where regionalism limits their ability to achieve national goals and pursue national interests, the influx of talented immigrants attracted by the opportunities and freedoms that exist in our country, and the domestic stability guaranteed by our Constitution, our laws, and our values.
As G&R pointed out, it is going to take us a long time to recover this time. The self-inflicted damage we have endured in recent decades is simply to great to overcome in just a few months or even a year or two, and it is going to take time to reinvent ourselves and create new technologies, industry and concepts that allow us to reach the greatness we enjoyed until not long ago.
The problems we are having will take time to solve, will require more than one man to find a solution, but I remain confident that the American society has not lost its resolve and we will emerge once again as the vibrant and confident nation we were just a few decades ago. It is far too early to write an obituary on America.
Thanks for what seems like a farewell message and good luck in your future endeavors; and I sincerely wish a long, healthy, and happy life to your son.
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Another submarine:
RIP Kiki (3);
See ya Later, amigo
As to "economic recovery", I think (and hope) the "good old days" are gone forever. Any new world order, if it is to be sustainable, will of necessity be based upon a much more just sharing of the Earth's diminishing resources...
Any attempt to re-establish the old paradigm is indeed doomed
The LAW
Pax
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Your friend Lexington is more subtle than Time and Newsweek but he is very biased.
Take his colulmn of Palin, he refuses to acknowledged the great bias and hatread that much of the media had for her. While decrying her lack of experience he refuses to acknowledge our community orginizer President's even thinner resume.
He will not be missed.
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Well I am not giving the USA any cheers at all, unless they go away for ever and take their "values" with them.
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It is hard to have hope
It is harder as you grow old
For hope does not depend on feeling good
And there is the dream of loneliness at absolute midnight
You also have withdrawn the leaf and the present reality of the future
But surely will surprise us
And hope is harder when it cannot come by prediction any more than wishing
But stop dithering
The young ask the old to hope
What do you tell them?
Tell them at least what you say to yourself
Because we have not made our lives to fit our places,
The forests are ruined
The fields eroded
The streams polluted
The mountains overturned
....
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Justin: You are correct about America...it can learn from its mistakes, but like all societies the learning period is generally very long. We are just about finished learning the lessons regarding racial bias, and we are about 140 years down the road from the ugly beginnings of that lesson. 160 years (4 generations at 40 years each) seems about right.
@5 (StD): "The self-inflicted damage we have endured in recent decades is simply to great to overcome in just a few months or even a year or two, and it is going to take time to reinvent ourselves and create new technologies, industry and concepts that allow us to reach the greatness we enjoyed until not long ago."
StD, I agree with this assessment. My conclusion is that if we started now to reverse the budgeting debacles of the past 45 years or so, it would take us about 75 years to finish it. That's assuming a debt figure of $56 trillion dollars, and commitment of $650 billion or so annually to pay it off.
I don't have much reason to hope for change here, because I realize that the Congress has no incentive to balance the budget and start paying the debt. If the Congress raised taxes to 50%, or 75%, or 95%, all they'd do is find new ways to spend the cash to pay off their contributors, because that's what their contributors will require in order to fund their election campaigns. The Congress cannot be depended on to act any other way, and there's no way they will surrender power by allowing a balanced-budget amendment that has any real teeth to pass.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong here, but nothing (including the faux "balanced budgets" of the 1990s that didn't start paying off the debt and didn't deal with Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid) has convinced me that this isn't going to wind up with America defaulting on its debt. The CBO has issued yet another warning on this to the Congress, who has dutifully said "Thank you" and put it on the shelf, just like the warnings they have gotten in the past.
The only way I can see to start turning this around is to break up the ugly relationship between Congress and its contributors by voting the Congress out of office over and over again.
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Praising us with faint damns again, Justin? And such a grudging third cheer for all this interesting diversity, pot-boiling, and stirring-up of bottom-feeding sludge.
Yes, the USA's secret strength is its constant renewal and injection of fresh blood and ideas from its diverse sources and loudly competing interests. It's always a balancing act and it's always noisy and unsettling...and ultimately nobody gets what they really want but everybody gets something they can live with.
Oh, and verycynicalskeptic, please accept my personal apology for the Bush administrations' stupidity in forcing "American" values upon you. I never voted for either Bush I or Bush II; nor did I support any of their foreign adventurism. I suggest that you rethink your opinion of our true values and be happy that we do as we do. We're not bothering you now, are we?
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# 7 MagicKirin wrote:
"Your friend Lexington is more subtle than Time and Newsweek but he is very biased./Take his colulmn [sic] of [sic] Palin, he refuses to acknowledged [sic] the great bias and hatread [sic] that much of the media had for her. While decrying her lack of experience he refuses to acknowledge our community orginizer [sic] President's even thinner resume./He will not be missed."
"He will not be missed." That is objectively untrue. I enjoy his columns when I read the Economist, so he'll be missed by me. There are also numerous comments posted after the article by readers of the Economist, many of them saying they'll miss him too. Just one example - "...he will be sorely missed in his role as Lexington...[he] will be difficult if not impossible to replace".
What MagicKirin means of course is that he will not be missed by MagicKirin, since he does not share Magic's particular prejudices. This demonstrates yet again the difficulty MK faces in distinguishing between [a] objective fact and [b] MK's own very subjective and biased opinions.
I noted that one of the comments posted on the Economist site said Lexington's main problem was that he was too lenient on the evangelicals and "Creationists". Like J Webb, if you're simultaneously being criticised for being too liberal and too conservative, maybe you're doing something right.
I also recall, with some wry amusement, previously querying some 'fact' propounded by MK. I quoted material from Wikipedia. [For the record, I don't assume Wiki is always right, but at least its assertions are referenced, and can be disputed.] MK dismissed Wiki as biased - apparently they don't allow him publish his 'unbiased' views on Israel and the Arabs. He suggested I quote from a more objective source - such as the Economist.....
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Arclightt,
- "If the Congress raised taxes to 50%, or 75%, or 95%, all they'd do is find new ways to spend the cash to pay off their contributors, because that's what their contributors will require in order to fund their election campaigns."
This morning's Radio 4 output carried an item on how elected party members are expected to "tithe" to the party from their wages (and expense allowances), and the observation that this was 'indirect' taxpayer funding for political campaigning.I seriously believe there must be a way found to take the money completely out of electoral politics. At present it is taken as necessary to spend billions on advertising (great for the advertising "industry") to get elected, and thus parties (for which I have little love) must therefore find ways of raising obscene amounts of money for the purpose.
We need enforceable laws limiting campaign expenditure and contributions, including strict and enforceable controls on PACs, and their ilk. It's a big ask, I know, but without such reform electoral "democracy" is a bad joke.
-- Wendell Berry
Pax
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12. At 1:57pm on 13 Jul 2009, john-In-Dublin wrote:
"I also recall, with some wry amusement, previously querying some 'fact' propounded by MK. I quoted material from Wikipedia. [For the record, I don't assume Wiki is always right, but at least its assertions are referenced, and can be disputed.] MK dismissed Wiki as biased - apparently they don't allow him publish his 'unbiased' views on Israel and the Arabs. He suggested I quote from a more objective source - such as the Economist.....2
I was amazed he cited the Economist. Given his views are to the far right of the Likud party and his comments on "arabs" come near to being anti-semetic, to think he reads the Economist is frankly mid boggling.
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Ref 10, Arclightt
"...convinced me that this isn't going to wind up with America defaulting on its debt."
President Bush admitted as much when he referred to our debt and borrowing as "IOUs...pieces of paper". The question is what would be the impact of such default be on the global economy and our ability to continue to borrow and encourage the foreign investment we desperately need to sustain our standard of living and pursue our economic goals?
The first thing we must do is put an end to the influence of special interests in American politics, but that is easier said than done. The campaign donations made by corporations and influential political and social groups come with strings attached, and our politicians are well aware of that when they accept their money. Unfortunately, voting all the rascals out will simply pave the way for new rascals to move in, and the cycle of corruption and inefficiency will continue indefinitely.
A solution may be the emergence of additional political parties. Competition often leads to efficiency and greater focus on what voters and/or consumers want.
Magic (7)
Comparing Sarah Palin's intellect to President Obama's is like comparing Einstein to an electrician apprentice. Most of the problems that Sarah Palin had and continues to have are self inflicted and the result of her limited knowledge of national and international politics, events, problems, and what the majority of Americans want. What I find objectionable and unwarranted were the criticisms and focus on her family, particularly, her children. That was uncalled for and disgusting. Make no mistake, she may seem upset but she is getting ready to benefit from those attacks and the perception of victimhood. It will not be long before she joins the ranks of the multi-millionaires.
Hesiodos (6)
Hopefully the new America will learn from its mistakes and excesses and start treating other nations and cultures with the same respect and fairness we expect from them. Doing that will require more than a new paradigm, it requires populist activism to ensure paranoid or opportunistic leaders are prevented from pursuing goals that are inconsistent with our convictions and the interests of most Americans.
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I wonder what exactly Justin had in mind when he wrote the following :'the really difficult link between the God-awful screw-ups (Iraq etc) and the staggering ability of the place to revivify and refresh and keep pulling the world in the right(ish) direction'
Can somebody remind me when the last screw-up was and what the right direction into which the USA pulled the world after is? It seems to me that after Vietnam (which was a sort of screw-up) the only direction the USA has been pulling the world into, is the directon of a world with an even grater American hegemony and even less accountability for American actions. The Vietnam-Iraq-Afghanistan axis is hardly a proof of the USA's illustrious record of 'bouncing back'. In the past 60 years there has never been a period during which America has had such a bad reputaion in the world's opinion, nor a period of economic woes, equal in proportion to today's. Thus, we should not drive too much satisfaction from the past. If the USA can bounce back now, than that would be a real proof that it does posses the intelectual, cultural and industrial might we have come to associate with it. If it does not bounce back, then we are all screwed.
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"Magic (7)
Comparing Sarah Palin's intellect to President Obama's is like comparing Einstein to an electrician apprentice. Most of the problems that Sarah Palin had and continues to have are self inflicted and the result of her limited knowledge of national and international politics, events, problems, and what the majority of Americans want. What I find objectionable and unwarranted were the criticisms and focus on her family, particularly, her children. That was uncalled for and disgusting. Make no mistake, she may seem upset but she is getting ready to benefit from those attacks and the perception of victimhood. It will not be long before she joins the ranks of the multi-millionaires."
Not to be forgotten is the fact that she was perfectly preopared to use her family for politcal ends - sprouting on about family f values when your daughter was about to be siongle mother was ridiculous.
The fact that her husband seemed to get confused about his role as the Governor's partner also was soemthiig he could have avoided.
The worst point about her though, and you get this in Oz as well, is the way she lauded ignorance and stupidity as if they were working class values.
She patently did not know what her new job might have involved - and could not be bothered to learn about it - but somehow tried to cast this as being a virtue - I'm ignorant, but being ignorant is a good thing because its working class.
In fact such attitudes demonstrate a very prejudicial and bigoted view of ordninary people (Ian McKewen's masterly study of Hitler examines this attitude - concluding for all his praise of working class German virtues, Hitler actually despised them) who are often not as stupid as they are presumed to be.
And as Palin found out.
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Not much can be expected, nor will be accomplished, until the people stop being so divisive and start working with unity towards recovery; politically, socially, and economically. The people of the U.S. have already had an extremely bloody lesson in what happens when extreme right and extreme left factions have torn the nation apart during the War Between the States. Do we wish to revisit that theater of death and destruction to prove once again that united we stand, divided we fall?
Would we be able to re-unite once again if such death and destruction were revisited? And would foreign intervention be thwarted to the extent that it had been during our national blood-bath?
We have accomplished great things when united. The retooling and mobilization for WWII, and the quest to land on the moon being most note worthy. We need to unite so good, wise decisions and actions can bring us out of this terrible economic and social trouble. Or we become just another historic footnote in the failure of democracy.
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Isenhorn,
- "If the USA can bounce back now, than that would be a real proof that it does posses the intelectual, cultural and industrial might we have come to associate with it. If it does not bounce back, then we are all screwed."
If it does, then we are back to four fifths of the world being "screwed" by the same old one fifth, which, like it or not, includes most Americans, excluding the truly poor.Damned if it don't, and damned if it do. A sobering thought Time for new solutions. What did Einstein say about solving problems using the same thinking that created them?
Some thoughts
Salaam, etc.
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"The whole point of America is that you CAN fail. Really badly. And America itself does, regularly. But the failure - the harshness and the unfairness and the ugliness of much of American life - is what drives the place ever forward."
I am truely flattered, Justin. But I think you're being a little too generous here. Yes "the point of America is that you can fail," but then again, isn't that the "point" of any democratic country? Can't someone fail just as badly in Canada? Britain? France? Germany? Can't those countries bounce back from their mistakes just as well, if not better than America can? Look at Germany for example. Just over half a century ago, it was one of the most opressive authoritarian dictatorships the world has ever seen, literally exterminating anyone but white people. And now, a mere 65 years later, it is the world's third largest economy with a woman as its leader. Now granted, America played a huge role in helping it to get back on its feet. But yu can't help someone who doesn't want to help themself, and Germany most certainly did, helping to pave the way as an example for all other devistated countries to pull themselves out of the myer of their mistakes and screw-ups. So in a sense, isn't the ability to fail and correct one's mistakes really the mark of a democracy as aposed to just America?
And regarding your assertion that America's harshness, unfairness, brutality is what drives it ever forward, yes that's true. But it is by no means a unique characteristic that only America possesses. Failure drives every nation forward. I mean what are people going to do? Throw their hands up and surrender? No. There are problems that are simply too huge to go unsolved, and so people everywhere are working tirelessly to try to solve them for the benefit of all man kind.
Not only that, but I believe other countries when they fail, don't fail nearly as badly and correct their mistakes much quicker than America does. And it was sir Winston Churchill no less, who very astutely observed our rather unusally long cycle of mistake and correction, when in the midst of World War II he deadly accurately declared, that "America can always be relyed upon to do the right thing...after it has tryed every other conceivable alternative."--So true from Washington to Obama!!
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It is difficult to define a country anymore. The bankers, investers and industrialists certainly have no boundries. The main difference between the West and the East is: In the West you purchase political favor after you become rich and in the East you purchase political favor before you become rich. We have to see how this all shakes out in the future. Like the stimulus from the Federal government, the State and local governmentals are fumbling though their cumbersome processes, trying to supplant existing funds, attempting to fund politically unfavorable projects and generally taking care of friends. The sense of "national good" or what is "best for the country" can not be found outside of the rethortic of Washington D.C. The Obama Administration need not be blamed for the lack of action on the stimulus funds, only that they failed to recognize the realities of the State and local governmental processes and the selfishness that resides in most state capitols and city halls.
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This is not to say, however, that America isn't exceptional in both positive and negative ways that set it apart from the rest of the world.
Negatively, America tends to flip out and curtail its citizens constitutional "rights" more so than any other democratic country on earth when it feels the slightest bit threatened, because unlike its democratic friends and allies, it still hasn't quite grasped the fact that it is its adhereance to these principles and values in times of crisis that make it better than its enamies and give it credibility in the world, not just when times are good.
And positively, it came into existance when a couple of intellijant people thought about the basic things that an individual would want from life, and put those ideas to paper at a time when the majority of the world, perhaps the whole world, doubted its ability to do much of anything.
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I think that it will be different this time, Hesiodos. This "green" thing
has really caught on, and is starting to permeate all through American life.
It's a unifying influence, much as WWII or the moon shots.
If we have a "manifest destiny" for our third century, then environmentalism
is probably going to be it. We tried the imperial thing - that didn't work
out well because, basically, we're too inwardly directed a nation. The reason
that the British Empire was able to fulfill that role was that it was an
outwardly directed society. One may think that all it requires is money,
but, in fact, the mindset of the people is also key.
The green movement is perfect for us, because we like to build things.
Here's our chance to save the planet and get back on track from an economic
standpoint as well. No one else on the planet has the combination of economic
imperatives and technology to fulfill the role.
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I daresay after Justin gets back to the UK, and maybe gets a different perspective, the headline will be changed to reduce it to two.
Or, of course, on the other hand, it might be increased to five, if some people think he isn't flattering enough.
Cheers!
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ref #12
To say Lexington is not bias is obtuse. He is.
Regarding Wikipdeia and it founder Jimmy Wales. They do have a bias and I am not banner just for comments on Israel, but also for other facts that cowardly administrators don't like. I've quoted the Boston Globe and they censor that.
Wales is a liar when he says it is open to all to provide information.
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Justin - very good insights.
Simon21 - you my friend are a fool.
"...if you want to find countries that bounce back from disaster you cannot do better than France Germany and Japan..."
Really now, have you studied post war events at all? Ever heard of the "Marshall Plan" or "Lend Lease" (try the internet - lots of info if you are willing to look). The Americans rebuilt Europe and Japan because they felt responsible. They took it upon themselves to pull up these economies and because of that foundation we enjoy an economic powerhouse called the EU. And Japan - the same.
They are trying to do it again in Iraq. It might even work. You my friend actually need to listen in school and learn a bit before you open your mouth and push your boot in it.
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dubrovnic, those were the good old days. Now, you can help rebuild America.
Just come over here and buy some wretched hovel which is about to fall down
so that its former owner has bus fare to get to the soup kitchen.
If you want something more upscale, I hear that Bernie Madoff has downsized
his accomodations, including the view from his window, and that his former
abode is up for sale.
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Well Justin you saved your dumbest posting for your last. How fitting to go out on such a sour note. Putting the United States of American in perspective, look at its assets and its vulnerabilities and compare them to the rest of the world's.
It has by far the most plentiful, varigated, cheapest, and overall safest food supply in the world. Its number one export is food yet only about one or two percent of its population works in agriculture.
It is the most technologically advanced society by far in virtually every technology of signifigance.
It is protected by what is by far the world's most effective military force.
It has vast resources of energy. It is the Saudi Arabia of coal with enough for 200 years, proven gas reserves of over 420 trillion cubic feet, uranium, as much oil in its tar sands and oil shale when combined with Canada's as Saudi Arabia has in the ground. It has almost all of the minerals it needs, only depending on the outside for relatively small quantities of the few exotic ones it doesn't have within its borders.
It has vast stretches of arable land that are unused.
It has by far the largest and best higher educational system in the world. Supported by government and industry alike it helps keep American technologically on top. Its primary and secondary school systems could use improvement.
It has a vast network of transportation and communications infrastructure including its interstate highway system. Some of it needs maintenance due to neglect. It is an extremely mobile society. It produces and consumes the most electrical power in the world including the most nuclear power. It needs more and will get it. It is still by far the largest manufacturing nation in the world, 2 1/2 times as large as China's manufacturing sector.
It has the world's largest and most powerful economy by far. Depending on whose numbers you believe and how you measure it, recently I heard it is 3 1/2 times the second largest, Japan's I think according to Forbes magazine.
It has an integrated culture that speaks by and large one language. It is for the most part at peace with itself. It has largely overcome differences due to race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, past nationality. Despite individual financial worries and concerns, most of its people are satisfied with their lives. They will have an endless stream of opportunities for the rest of their lives.
Despite what others say, it has by far the best medical care in the world. It system of finance to pay for it is broken but the medical care it delivers is second to none.
It's people are energetic, optimistic. It attracts the most ambitious and brightest people from all over the world in all walks of life like a magnet whether they are already accomplished or just starting out. It is in a perpetual state of self renewal and self reinvention.
It is saturated with material goods including vast surplusses of cars, houses, and anything else in a material sense anyone could want.
It encourages and rewards risk, effort, achievement, accomplishment. It even usually gives convicted criminals more than one chance at life.
It has a system of government that made all of this possible and keeps it secure. Most Americans think it is by and large fair and equitable. Europe by contrast can't even write a comprehensible constitution let alone agree to enact one.
And the list can go on and on.
It's liabilities are that its financial system is broken along with all of the rest of the world's. It has been broken before and fixed, it will be fixed again. We are impatient but it will happen. It is vulnerable to physical attack from outside terrorists who want to destroy it. They will try to exploit the openness of its society. It must maintain the will, it has the means to root these people out all over the world and prevent their insanity from affecting it.
No other country or block of countries can remotely compare to these assets. Numbers alone do not tell the whole story at all. Every other place, every other society is fatally flawed in one or more of these areas where America has great strength. John D. Rockerfeller once said anyone who takes a bet against America will go broke. It is as true today as it was a hundred yars ago when he said it. Go back to England....and see how long you can stand it now that you've briefly experienced the alternative.
By the way, the invasion of Iraq was no mistake, it was a brilliant move that upset the entire apple cart of the Middle East, an apple cart so rotten to the core upsetting it was the best thing that could happen to it. And it exposed nations and people as enemies America used to mistakenly think of as friends. That alone was worth it.
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26. At 5:52pm on 13 Jul 2009, dubrovnic wrote:
Justin - very good insights.
Simon21 - you my friend are a fool.
And you like most Amereicanophiles know little or nothing about history.
"...if you want to find countries that bounce back from disaster you cannot do better than France Germany and Japan..."
Really now, have you studied post war events at all? Ever heard of the "Marshall Plan" or "Lend Lease" (try the internet - lots of info if you are willing to look)."
Oh right yes. Did Germany get lend lease? I wasn't aware.
And yes the marshall Plan helped.
But there was also this little thing called World war II - and the devestation endured in japan and germany went way way way beyond anything the US has ever endured.
And France and the UK received more aid than Germany did in any event.
"The Americans rebuilt Europe and Japan because they felt responsible. They took it upon themselves to pull up these economies and because of that foundation we enjoy an economic powerhouse called the EU. And Japan - the same."
Drivel. The Germans and the Japanese built up their own economies. They were powwerful before the war and they became economically powerful after it.
The US contributed of course, but it was not "responsible". Russia received no aid at all, but it became the 2nd most powerful country in the world.
You should stop trying to comment on things about which you know nothing or very little.
The fact remains when it comes to restoring themselves from disaster Germany and Japan - no question.
The US and most of the rest of the world do not come close.
They are trying to do it again in Iraq. It might even work. You my friend actually need to listen in school and learn a bit before you open your mouth and push your boot in it.
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25. At 5:50pm on 13 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #12
To say Lexington is not bias is obtuse. He is.
Regarding Wikipdeia and it founder Jimmy Wales. They do have a bias and I am not banner just for comments on Israel, but also for other facts that cowardly administrators don't like. I've quoted the Boston Globe and they censor that.
Wales is a liar when he says it is open to all to provide information."
Didn't a gang of extreme Zionists try to hijack Wikipedia? Didn't they try to cowardly hide their real indentities.
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28. At 6:20pm on 13 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
First we get:
"Well Justin you saved your dumbest posting for your last."
Then we get:
"By the way, the invasion of Iraq was no mistake, it was a brilliant move."
Glad to learn this. Every other sane person takes the opposite view, including the US army, government and majority of people in the US.
It must be opening time.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Simon21, I am glad there are people like you around because you and Marcus
cancel each other out.
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26. At 5:52pm on 13 Jul 2009, dubrovnic wrote:
Really now, have you studied post war events at all? Ever heard of the "Marshall Plan" or "Lend Lease" (try the internet - lots of info if you are willing to look).
Hmm, read this:
"The Marshall Plan did not, in and of itself, cause Western European economic recovery. Indeed, there was little direct correlation between the amount of U.S. aid received and the speed of economic recovery in the various recipient countries. "
Makes you look a bit of a fool doesn't it.
Next time do the research before commenting.
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I actually think that the linked article is very reasonable. But what I wonder is if America can really bounce back from this one in the same way. The very strenghts that are mentioned are part of the problem. Everyone is patting themselves on the back over the G8 summit and limiting global warming to 2 degrees. Apparently 2 degrees is not enough to save the coral reefs. Our very existence on the planet may need a reevaluation of the very ideas that are most exemplified by America. We may need as a planet to adopt more Eastern ideas of cooperation and harmony that will necessarily limit the individualism that is the Western way in particular and the American way especially.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Rereading simon's unattributed quote, I wonder if he has thought to pass this information on to obama. It might make him reconsider the stimulus package, which according to simon is a waste of money
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Guns,
- "I think that it will be different this time, Hesiodos. This "green" thing
I hope you're right, but I have less faith in the technical fix road than you. You can't Eat GNP, after all.has really caught on, and is starting to permeate all through American life.
It's a unifying influence, much as WWII or the moon shots. .....
The green movement is perfect for us, because we like to build things.
Here's our chance to save the planet and get back on track from an economic
standpoint as well. No one else on the planet has the combination of economic
imperatives and technology to fulfill the role."
Publius,
- "Not much can be expected, nor will be accomplished, until the people stop being so divisive and start working with unity towards recovery; politically, socially, and economically."
Your string of adverbs made me wonder about hierarchies and the fact that part of the core problem (as I see it) is the mistaken idea that The Economy contains The Environment, and that The Government contains The Economy....It's a matter of "priorities". I would imagine that if we recover Socially, the other two (economically, politically) might follow 'organically', or is that asking for too much? Does that make me a "Socialist?" O Horror!
Confucious said something about wanting good order in their kingdom, they sought peace in their towns, and wanting good order in their towns, they sought peace in their families, and wanting harmony in their families, they found it in the springs of their own hearts
(or something like that)
;-)
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Justin,
I have read many of your posts, and I am happy to hear you are leaving. Given your harsh opinions I wonder why it wasn't sooner.
Negative post-ers( non-american citizens),
I find it rather funny how you seem to have USA figured out yet none of you live here and very few of you have ever visited. Just because I have learned about your countries in school or hear about your countries in the news, I don't claim to have your countries figured out...nor do the majority of Americans. Yes our country has problems...which country doesn't. If the USA was such a rotten stink whole of a country and is such a waist to the world, then answer this question: Why then do so many people from other countries CHOOSE to come here and live?
Also, Did it ever occur to all of you that maybe American's only have so much control over our government? All we can do is listen to the ideas and positions of the people running and choose the one we most identify with ( which isn't easy). After we do that, how do you suppose we ( American's) have any way of knowing or control what those elected officials decide to do with their time?
Yes, I can see where foreigners have a difficult time understanding why it takes America a long time to get things changed or why we spend so much time trying to please every one. That is because it TAKES time to figure out away to even get close to making such a large variety of people comfortable. ....that seems pretty obvious.
So the real question is ...How on earth do any of you think your so qualified to claim yourselves experts on the USA? Why don't you talk about your own countries? At least then you might actually have a clue on what your talking about.
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38, H, I agree that there is a qualitative component which GNP (or GDP) doesn't
measure. But, what I'm trying to say is that the US, like the EU, is moving towards
a "green" GDP, while places like China, India, and Russia are not doing so for
a variety of reasons.
As for technology, there is really no humane alternative to reducing our load on the
planet. Since we're beyond carrying capacity, the 3 alternatives are:
1. population control
2. war & famine (could be considered a form of #1)
3. replacing destructive forms of technology & commerce with
neutral/constructive ones.
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Guns,
1. and reduction
2. almost inevitable.
3. nice idea, hard to imagine in any detail. I reckon it's time to re-read "Small is Beautiful" A very wise book, indeed.
Buddhist Economics, a good starting point?
Appropriate Technology
Pax
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39, senoritalucy -
Some of those "non-American citizen" posters are residents here. Would you also deny them their right to speak out, negatively, on their country of residence? Some of the non-residents are American citizens living elsewhere. Must they also shut up? Would you wish this blog to be limited to resident American citizens? That would be boring. Especially if it were to function solely as a cheerleading section for the United States and it's "values."
If you don't like the discussion you are free not to read the blog, but you are not free to say who may and who may not participate.
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E. F. Schumacher
August 16th, 1911 Sept 4th, 1977
"Perhaps we cannot raise the winds. But each of us can put up the sail, so that when the wind comes we can catch it."
- E. F. Schumacher, Small Is Beautiful
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The USA is damned if it does & damned if it doesn't.
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senoritalucy: if you, as an American citizen, want to know what your elected representatives are up to, you can ask them. If they won't answer, you have a Freedom of Information Act - which is lots better than the one in the UK - to use as a tool for gathering information. American citizens can be involved in the process of governing their cities, counties, states and entire nation to a level that boggles the mind. It's all a question of how involved you want to be, and if you want to take your elected reps to task, you can. All the tools are there, it just depends how badly you want to use them. Don't forget that Jefferson and the other founding fathers took steps to make sure the government could be challenged and, if need be, dismantled and replaced should the need arise. No other nation does this.
In the interests of disclosure, I'm a Brit living in the USA. There's lots to love about America and lots I will miss when I no longer live here. However, it's not an immigration destination just because the people are nice or because the inhabitants feel it's the best nation on Earth. The desire of people to live and work in the USA is far more complex than that and has economic foundations.
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#43, H., I actually agree with the philosophy that you espouse, as far as I
can. Small things can make a difference, and sometimes the reasons why
they haven't been adopted are sheer intellectual laziness.
Examples include a solar cooker made from cardboard, tin foil, and glass that
can reduce the need for firewood, or a car that places more of an emphasis
on efficiency than has been done in the past, or the Internet, which has
the effect of reducing the need for physical travel to accomplish commerce
or intellectual exchange.
But, the root of the problem is that most of the world still has a labor-intensive,
pre-industrial economy. In that system, there is an incentive for parents to
have as many children as possible to sustain them later in life.
Sometimes, we in "post-industrial" societies forget just how narrow the
options for most of the world's population are with regard to choice of
livelihoods. Until we can move them up the ladder, we will continue to
have relentless population growth, with dire consequences.
Conversion to a "green," carbon-neutral economy will probably be a real
boon to us in the advanced economies of the world. We need not fear it.
But, we need to find a way to include the developing world in the changes
that are necessary so that they, too, can ascend and not become mass victims.
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#4
Simon,
Who picked up the check for Germany, France and Japan? There have been many WWII posts on this blog, many of which overplayed America's role in the fighting but few of which have taken credit for America's real role, cleaning up the mess left behind and paying for the clean up. Germany and Japan are what they are because America fixed them up. France isn't what they are because of their attitude, you just have to look at Marcus.
#7
Magic,
That's the newly regenerated Lexington, not Justin's 'chum'. Like Doctors, as soon as they die they regenerate with a few new quirks.
As for Palin, you missed the entire point of the article. The point was that Palin has no chance of winning the Presidency because she is not very bright and a quitter. Many Americans tolerate the former in politians but the latter is inexcusable. He then eloquently observed that senior members of the Republican party are very afraid of her because there is an element of hard liners who think that the abused clothes expenses, failed pipeline project, bridge to nowhere flip flopping, quitting and general stupidity in answering simple questions (What papers do you read? 'All of them') is due to media bias. And those people vote in Republican primaries, just enough to select her to run against Obama in 2012.
Couple that with the current spate of going AWOL from leadership positions like Gov Sanford or making questionable payments to ones mistress through your parents . . . I could go on. The Republican party has become as much use as a pair of wooden legs in a forest fire.
There are some stupid things getting through congress right now simply because there is not center right voice to appeal to Independents and take a stand that would worry the Dems.
Is that a problem?
You betcha!
Doctor Sam
PS David, re last thread. I'm afraid to say I had been drinking very heavily at the time. Never do anything illegal in the jurisdiction that you are in. I also disagree with your observation that nationality does not influence attitude to race. Race is a deep wound in our nation, in others attitudes are deeply ingrained and have been for centuries. Just visit Japan.
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#40, 41
Guns, Ed,
Is Internet pornography not a humane technology for achieving 1 and avoiding 2?
Oh yeah. Now we're talking.
Deviant Sam
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#31
Simon
Much as I hate to be supportive of Marcus sanity, there is one group of sane, if extreme people who take this view. In fact it was their idea in the first place. Al Qaeda.
Sad Sam
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Ref 146, G&R
"But, the root of the problem is that most of the world still has a labor-intensive, pre-industrial economy."
I agree with most of what you said in your post, but I have a different take on what the real challenge is going to be for future generations and governments. In my opinion, the biggest challenge involves the need to support a growing population in an era where automation and high technology limits the need for human intervention...and employment!
The problem is further complicated by a substandard education system and our high dropout rate, which will prevent a large segment of our population from pursuing and qualifying for the limited number of high tech jobs available, getting involved in R&D, or pursuing jobs in sectors such as healthcare, which are likely to remain labor intensive but require higher education and specialization.
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68 1/2
Al Qaeda went to Iraq to join the insurgents and got its butt kicked. Their leader looked so stupid on videotape he couldn't even fire an AK-47. There are 11 year olds in Africa who could handle one better and shoot straighter than he could. Well he got blown away and we paid the Sunnis to finish the job. With any luck, when America pulls out of Iraq in 2011, there will be a civil war that will suck in Iran (assuming there's anything left of it), Saudi Arabia, Syria, Hezbullah, maybe Egypt, and a few other Arab nations. This is what we tried to instigate and perpetuate when we supported Saddam Hussein in his war with Iran. Better late than never. And if it doesn't happen...well we'll live with whatever they come up with in Iraq even democracy.
America rebuilt Western Europe after WWII, not by American government money, that would have been far too costly but by giving large American corporations incentives to invest there. That incentive is finally being completely withdrawn. Have you noticed Obama's proposal to tax American corporations' profits made abroad? Great idea, long overdue. Time to bring some of that investment back to the USA to create more jobs here. Had it not been for the US in the aftermath of WWII, assuming the USSR hadn't overrun it, Western Europe would have looked a lot like Eastern Europe under the Soviets. On their own, Europeans couldn't have done anything. The beauty of it is that Europe actually has the hubris to think it did this all by itself. As the US steadily continues to withdraw, as it has globalized the world markets and moved much of its investment to Asia, Europe cannot grasp that its free ride is over because it thought it was actually doing the pedaling. China is in the process of bankrupting Europe. A spike in energy prices resulting from another war in the middle east would probably finsh Europe off. $200 a barrel for oil and a cutoff of Russian oil and gas next January? Now way would Russia cut off the oil and gas to Europe again? How about an American attack on South Ossetia and Abkhazia.
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# 25 MagicKirin wrote:
"ref #12
To say Lexington is not bias [sic] is obtuse. He is."
There you go again.
I didn't say he wasn't biased. You said he wouldn't be missed. I pointed out this was factually untrue. Since you lost the argument, you try to change it.
We all have our biases. I repeat - since he's criticised by an extreme rightwinger [you] and also by a liberal, that probably puts him somewhere in the middle.
At any event, Lex writes perceptively and entertainingly. And a criticism of bias from you is a bit like Jocelyn Wildenstein saying 'look at her - she's had too much work done...'
"Regarding Wikipdeia [sic] and it [sic] founder Jimmy Wales. They do have a bias and I am not banner [sic] just for comments on Israel, but also for other facts that cowardly administrators don't like. I've quoted the Boston Globe and they censor that./Wales is a liar when he says it is open to all to provide information."
Course, Magic. You're unbiased, Wikipedia is biased. And Jimmy Wales is the cowardly liar.
Please show where Mr Wales said it is open to all to provide information. I understand they have banned certain Scientologists. They also banned a number of Israel supporters who were working to bias their output. They would be insane to let any crank or fanatic have the power to change their pages.
So I am glad to see that is not the case....
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hurrah hurrah hurrah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzzmuARdgyA
At least in the US there is some FUN and a song and dance once in a while, instead of whinging allatime.
To the Palin posts: I have noticed in my neck of the woods that the sweet elderly republican ladies and the rural redneck neighbors - those who used to like Palin - now make crazy sign circles around their ears and shake their heads when discussing her.
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#48, Deviant Sam, in your case, I'm sure that it is.
In my case, I'm sure that I've saved a lot of alimony payments
because of the Internet.
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#50, St. D., the problem that you mention is really an American problem,
and possibly one of countries with advanced economies in general. How can
we compete with countries that have huge populations, such as India and China.
The answer, I believe, is that we have to carve out a niche for ourselves.
We already have a lead in aerospace, nanotechnology, biotech and many other
areas. We need to continue to nurture new industries and to protect the
ones that we have, not by limiting imports, but by protecting our intellectual
property.
The Chinese, in particular, have very little understanding of what intellectual
property is, or why someone would "own" it. I could give many examples, but
suffice it to say that the value that we add as a society is that we can create
valuable intellectual property and commercialize it as fast or faster than
anyone else. If we can establish new ground rules for our trading relationships
with China and other parts of the world, then we don't have to compete with
them on cost of labor.
In fact, all societies can continue to advance by leveraging off the strengths
of other players in the global economy, if we don't regress into some form
of protectionism.
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Guns,
- "Until we can move them up the ladder, we will continue to
Ah, but there's the rub: Moving them 'up the ladder' means doubling, tripling or quadrupling their percapita consumption (and carbon footprint), and it takes at least a generation (usually two) for any reduction in reproductive rate to begin. And even then, as with our 'developed' cultures, the rate only drops towards zero, and if/when it falls below zero, we panic.have relentless population growth, with dire consequences."
As to intellectual property:
(If you have bought it, dear reader, I thank you. If you have borrowed it, I honor your frugality. If you have stolen it, may it add to your confusion.) Most of the sale price pays the publisher for paper, ink, and other materials, for editorial advice, copyediting, design, advertising (I hope), and marketing. I get between 10 and 15 percent (depending on sales) for arranging the words on the pages.
As I understand it, I am being paid only for my work in arranging the words; my property is that arrangement. The thoughts in this book, on the contrary, are not mine. They came freely to me, and I give them freely away. I have no "intellectual property," and I think that all claimants to such property are thieves.
The Joys of Sales Resistance"
Pax
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Found it!
Confucius, The Great Digest (translated by Ezra Pound)"
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"...the problem that you mention is really an American problem,
and possibly one of countries with advanced economies in general."
While it is true that the fertility rate in some European countries and Japan is lower than the USA's, their populations remain constant or are increasing as a result of very liberal immigration laws put in place, in some cases, to satisfy labor shortages. In spite of that and with some exceptions, their economies are relatively stable compared to ours and their industrial output and GDP continues to grow. Some of their companies, like Fiat, are busy buying companies abroad.
I have three nieces born overseas who now live and work in the USA. They all have excellent jobs, own their homes, travel abroad, own nice cars and enjoy all the opportunities our country has to offer. The difference between them, my Indian doctor and specialist, and the tens of millions of unemployed Americans is education. They simply have professions that are in high demand in the USA, while many of our unemployed workers only have a high school diploma or experience in a trade that is no longer in demand. I realize this is a generalization, and that many American professionals are out of work, but most of them find a new job very quickly or take their time because their expectations are unrealistic under the present circumstances.
Unless we do something dramatic to improve the level and quality of education in the USA we are not going to be able to compete in the not too distant future. The days of factory line workers making decent middle class wages are over. Yes, we still have some prosperous sectors such as healthcare, aerospace, and companies such as MICROSOFT, Apple, HP, GE and several high tech companies that are either doing very well or holding their own. Unfortunately, much of our heavy industry is gone forever and will never return, which means that semi-skilled workers will remain unemployed for a very very long time. Even "help desk" jobs are gone! When I called my carrier a few weeks ago to report an Internet interface problem the person that answered the phone and helped me solve the problem was in India!
We need to invest in R&D, modernization, new technologies, improvements in infrastructure (and that includes more than just shovel-ready jobs), education and in industry to require job opportunities for our semi-skilled workers or the only options left are going to be low paying agricultural, construction, hospitality, retail, and the military.
My unemployed youngest son has been working in outside sales for companies that manufacture printed circuit boards for electronic equipment, many of them used in the medical field. Their biggest problem is competition from China who can produce the same product for a fraction of the cost. Most of the shops that remain in business in the USA focus on prototype and high technology boards and do fairly well until their foreign competitors magically acquire the technology they developed and puts them out of business. I agree that protectionism is not the way to go, but adhering to strict standards such as patents, copyrights, and trade treaties while our competitors use Yemeni pirate standards as a model is suicidal.
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One mistake economists often make is to take relatively short trends of a decade or two and extrapolate them out indefinitely into the future. Lots of mistakes happen this way. 25 years ago, they said Japan would overtake the US. Fifty years ago it was the USSR. Seventy years ago it was Nazi Germany. A hundred years ago they thought the UK would rule the world forever. Today they say China will catch up to the US and surpass it around 2042. It's of course a pipe dream. The possibility that the gap between China's growth and America's growth continuing at the recent pace is impossible. Looking at the list in my post about America's assets, China falls short on many of these. It is inbred, aging, non-self renewing, short of energy, short of arable land, having some disaffected minorities and does not attract outside talent except to expoit its cheap labor and lack of laws. It is the largest toxic waste dump in the world where life isn't worth a nickel. If that ever changes, all that capital will simply pick up and go somewhere else, Africa or South America. Also, while China has saved a trillion dollars of US government debt, most of the money made in China is repatriated to foreign investors. The total profits made by outsiders who invested in China is many times a trillion dollars. In one BBC broadcast, one large Chinese manufacturer of badges, pins, etc. said that only 10 cents of each dollar made in profits in China remains in China. For many reasons, the long term prospects for China and India actually look grim. One problem China faces is a large underclass of very poor people who will sooner or later demand their fair share of the nation's wealth. Another is the inevitable demand of the growing middle class for more rights and freedoms than the government will consider. The stage is set for a lot of social upheaval. One thing we only rarely hear about are the street riots and other evidences of social disorder happening regularly around the country. If this builds due to widespread dissatisfaction, it could by itself upset China's apple cart. People do not migrate to China, they try to leave to live somewhere else.
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"But the failure - the harshness and the unfairness and the ugliness of much of American life - is what drives the"...resistance movements around the world! And three cheers for them! May they finally free themselves from the murderous grip of the Bush's and Obama's of the world who have unremittingly terrorised the wretched of the earth and stolen their resources to fill Western corporate coffers. Of course Webb "and almost all other commentators on America fail to make the really difficult link between the God-awful"...savagery of American imperialism..."(Iraq etc) and the staggering ability of the place to revivify and refresh and keep pulling the world in the" fiend(ish) direction of its American imperial masters. May justice at last prevail despite American attempts to quash it. And at last, one foreign- correspondent-American-cheerleader will be going home. Three cheers!
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No need to pussyfoot around, Doug. Speak your mind!
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Justin, I think it's time you ask the BBC to go elsewhere. As an American (whose ancestors began arriving close to 400 years ago), I'm horrified by your perspective. The problem with America is that failure is not an option, as it is in Europe (and less so in the UK and Canada). If you fail here, you become homeless, hungry and die at a much younger age than you should have. There is no welfare and nothing to help you recover.
Three cheers to America where proper health care is reserved for some of those with college educations or labor unions, where gays can't serve in their nation's military or live without the threat of legal discrimination, where over 10,000/year die from gun wounds and many more seriously injured, where the Supreme Court is more backwards than the House of Lords has been at any time since the travesty of American independence, where state governments are bankrupt and, in turn, eliminating vital support for education, libraries, the arts, mental health, mass transit...
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#28. MarcusAureliusII: It, it, it, it! It is Paradise on Earth. Being a cheerleader ill becomes you since nowhere, not even the United States of America, is perfection.
"It is saturated with material goods including vast surplusses of cars, houses, and anything else in a material sense anyone could want."
Not forgetting of course that most are not paid for and tens of thousands of houses are repossessed. That's Heaven?
"It is for the most part at peace with itself. It has largely overcome differences due to race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, past nationality."
Tell that to those whose skin is darker; I think you'll find that prejudice still exists - as does the bigotry in middle America towards those who are gay.
"John D. Rockerfeller once said . . ."
John D. who?
So much for the brilliance of the American educational system. Even this humble and supposedly ill-educated Briton knows how to spell the name, but a red-blooded American does not. Make you wonder about the rest of the post.
"By the way, the invasion of Iraq was no mistake"
Indeed no: we know it was a deliberate and unwarranted invasion. As do the four thousand and more families who lost their adult children who were "protecting" America, not to mention about 100,000 wounded - and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians. And for what? Don't tell us it was to bring necessary Democracy to the region. It's been tried before and failed.
_______________________________________________________________________
#47. SamTyler1969: " I also disagree with your observation that nationality does not influence attitude to race."
How can the mere idea of citizenship affect one's attitude to race? People have to exposed to certain attitudes before they can accept or deny them. It's the place of upbringing where attitudes are inculcated, not what it shows on a passport.
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#51
Dear bloggers
Those who cannot tell the difference between an M-249 and an AK 47 really only demonstrate their lack of knowledge of weapons. If you can't tell the difference between a squad machine gun and an assault rifle how on Earth can you comment on military strategy or geopolitics?
Al Qaeda wanted the US to invade Iraq. They wanted to foment a pitched Sunni Shia battle. They wanted the US to degrade it's military. They wanted us to alienate our Allies. And they struck when we had elected a leader who would do exactly those things.
Anyone who supports those policies is a terrorist and deserves to be treated as such. The authorities need to take these people in for questioning.
Vigilant Sam
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"Mirror. mirror on the wall . . ."
Telling yourself you're the fairest because you think everybody next to you is the ugliest just doesn't work in the end. Reality strikes.
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#59
Pity Poor Marcus.
He should name an economist who predicted such things. None did, he can't. Monarchs, politicians of course. They must pander to the ignorant. Economists are far too practical. After Malthus they only ever go a year or two out. More on numbers but they have to be pushed.
But if you need to shout loud, make the lie big. Empty vessels and all that.
Economist Sam
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#54
Guns,
The couple that shoots together, stays together. It's either the shared interest, mutual fear, or the joy of painting 'Marcus' on a big fat slow obvious incoming target and smashing it to pieces with a 12".
Skeets are evil and must be destroyed.
Gunner Sam
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59, MAII, huh? You're not making any sense at all today.
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Gunner Sam, I didn't even think of that. Sure beats hurting ducks.
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68. At 03:12am on 14 Jul 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:
59, MAII, huh? You're not making any sense at all today.
What makes today different from any other day?
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#63
David,
I believe I said Nationality, not citizenship.
Pedant Sam
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"So much for the brilliance of the American educational system. Even this humble and supposedly ill-educated Briton knows how to spell the name, but a red-blooded American does not. Make you wonder about the rest of the post." david cunard
Interesting still is the persons that attack someones postings by citing spelling. As if that is enough to lessen the impact of their thoughts. Not to pick on anyone, but this was a random check. So if you spell things incorrectly, does that mean your message isn't valid. I don't think so, but the attack artists do. "But thats a horse of a different color (american spelling, UK colour)." So watch out for the Spelling Nazi's your message will be assaulted by them.
Misspellings:
Posting #2 nig
#4 devestation, poplace, reeporters
#7 hatread
#14 mid boggling.
#16 grater
#17 siongle
#20 yu, devistated, myer
mine guiness, warrants are served.
I always enjoyed reading literature more. Grammer and spelling is one of my faults, tough to be human.
By the way the White House visitors logs are still locked down, I tried to access the site. So we may never have the evidence of who snuck into the White House first?
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64. At 02:50am on 14 Jul 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:
#51
Dear bloggers
Those who cannot tell the difference between an M-249 and an AK 47 really only demonstrate their lack of knowledge of weapons. If you can't tell the difference between a squad machine gun and an assault rifle how on Earth can you comment on military strategy or geopolitics?
Well, for one thing, knowing the difference between an M249 and an AK47 is a matter of tactics, not strategy. And you don't have to know the difference between a duck and a goose to know that fowl that fly get shot at. Or why.
Syllogisms are always risky.
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Funny how the Brits come here, find fault with everything, but we never seem to be able to get rid of them. They never go back. They've always got an excuse. For one guy it was his pet. For another it was his wife or girlfriend or something. For another it's a job. Who wants to bet Justin Webb will be back within two years on one pretext or another. They always find some niche here too. One guy finds scraps of steel and cuts them up into something that looks like a frog and sells them as lawn ornaments. They're all over the place on TV. One's a voice for the Geico gekko. Another is a pitch man who sells cheap junky vegetable choppers and milk shake makers at 3am on some cable channel. BBC's got a slew of them. One TV presenter has her tentacles out to PBS, NPR, and NBC. They are becoming inescapable. And they pick up our language so quickly too, that's the remarkable thing. Iraniacs do the same thing. Funny how quiet apologists for Iran have been lately. You don't hear much from lostallhermarbles and nothing from Princess of the pea in Teheran. I hope she took my advice and kept her mouth shut. It would be a shame if something happened to her and I couldn't keep telling her how wrong she is here. That's what happens when you take freedom of speech for granted and then go somewhere where what you say can land you in jail...or worse.
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50. At 10:05pm on 13 Jul 2009, saintDominick wrote:
"In my opinion, the biggest challenge involves the need to support a growing population in an era where automation and high technology limits the need for human intervention...and employment!
The problem is further complicated by a substandard education system and our high dropout rate, which will prevent a large segment of our population from pursuing and qualifying for the limited number of high tech jobs available, getting involved in R&D, or pursuing jobs in sectors such as healthcare, which are likely to remain labor intensive but require higher education and specialization."
Yes, yes, but a properly trained population will always be able to support itself, expand, and improve their quality of life.
Look around you - don't you feel a crying need for people who care? Who care about what they're doing - about the taco they are making, about the customer's needs and quality of experience, about the value they add? The opportunity is limitless.
KScurmudgeon
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"The whole point of America is that you CAN fail. Really badly. And America itself does, regularly. But the failure - the harshness and the unfairness and the ugliness of much of American life - is what drives the place ever forward."
Doesn't this strike anyone else as a rather perverse argument? That you must have many who fail, many who are deprived, many who suffer, to progress? Suppose harshness, unfairness and ugliness one day end up outweighing the 'successes'? What then?
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"If you can't tell the difference between a squad machine gun and an assault rifle how on Earth can you comment on military strategy or geopolitics?"
I don't waste my time with anything under 50 kilotons.
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55. At 11:04pm on 13 Jul 2009, gunsandreligion wrote:
'The Chinese, in particular, have very little understanding of what intellectual
property is, or why someone would "own" it. '
Ownership, even of ephemerals, is part of our power. It motivates millions of us to invent, to promote, to solve problems and create opportunities. The opportunity to excel is also the opportunity to abuse your fellow man - to become so rich and powerful that you are not only resented, you become a menace.
To date, we are not so heavily managed that everyday risk-taking has been driven from our way of life - social inter-responsibility can do that to a society, I believe. Failure must be part of the equation that produces both innovation and excellence. So are cheap decadence, superfluity, and megalomania.
Right now we are reminded of our interdependence - of the ways we can all be brought down together, by the shallow selfishness and foolishness of a few. When conditions get bad enough, we will get up as a nation out of our wallows of self-pity or isolating pride, and fix it. Until then we will find ways to tolerate being abused.
Why do I read such unabated hopelessness from these posters? I think it is too much science, too little faith. Like Steinbeck's Sir Kay, your spirit is being devowered by the multiplying details you cannot control or escape.
KScurmudgeon
old, but hopeful and confident
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72. At 05:11am on 14 Jul 2009, AmericanGrizzly:
At least one deserves to get into the OED:
reeporter: journaiist who merely repeats someone else's story or a press release instead of going out looking for one. (Obviously.)
And "guiness' is the politically correct name now for the brand of black stout. (It removes an 'N'.)
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78. At 05:52am on 14 Jul 2009, KScurmudgeon wrote:
Yes, yes, but a properly trained population will always be able to support itself, expand, and improve their quality of life.
Look around you - don't you feel a crying need for people who care? Who care about what they're doing - about the taco they are making, about the customer's needs and quality of experience, about the value they add? The opportunity is limitless.
How can it be? Planet Earth isn't elastic. It can't continually expand.
And you can 'add value' as much as you like, but if there aren't enough people to pay the price for it, or the taxes to support it, it's worth nothing. Ask German industrialists at the moment, or almost anyone in the finance business. (Outside Goldman Sachs, of course.)
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#72. AmericanGrizzly: "So if you spell things incorrectly, does that mean your message isn't valid."
The reference to spelling was because the poster who misspelt Rockefeller had extolled the virtues of the American educational system, with includes the "three Rs". Apparently he was so well versed (?) in American commercial and political history that he couldn't type it correctly. Indeed, with such a trivial error, it is quite possible, even likely, that the rest of his message was not valid, joining the other 95% of his posts.
#74. MarcusAureliusII: "Funny how the Brits come here, find fault with everything"
Wrong, wrong, wrong! We don't find fault with everything but do point out that there is imperfection, imperfection which you care not to acknowledge. Contrariwise, you find fault with everything European - and particularly anything British - the latter country in which you have never set foot. At least I and the lawn ornament maker have the benefit of having lived in two places for more than a couple of years and, in passing, what's wrong with someone making lawn ornaments - what have ever ever made, other than mistakes?
"They're all over the place on TV."
If the advertisers didn't think British accents would help sell the product, then they wouldn't be hired. Why not criticise the Australian and Indian accents which also grace the airwaves, with our, English, language?
"Another is a pitch man . . . at 3am on some cable channel."
This gives us more than a hint of the kind of television you watch - and why are you even up at 3 a.m.? You're losing more than your beauty sleep - marbles more likely.
_______________________________________________________________________
#71. SamTyler1969: "I believe I said Nationality, not citizenship."
Explain the difference if you can; they're synonymous!
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Statements of optimism (like "we've been through this sort of thing once, we can get out from under again") let alone rousing cheers or appeals to faith are not solutions.
I think more people in the US need a closer look at the figures, something many people in Europe are all too uneasily conscious of now, I think.
This might be a good start.
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80. At 06:09am on 14 Jul 2009, squirrelist wrote:
78. At 05:52am on 14 Jul 2009, KScurmudgeon wrote:
'Yes, yes, but a properly trained population will always be able to support itself, expand, and improve their quality of life. Look around you - don't you feel a crying need for people who care? Who care about what they're doing - about the taco they are making, about the customer's needs and quality of experience, about the value they add? The opportunity is limitless.'
"How can it be? Planet Earth isn't elastic. It can't continually expand.
And you can 'add value' as much as you like, but if there aren't enough people to pay the price for it, or the taxes to support it, it's worth nothing. Ask German industrialists at the moment, or almost anyone in the finance business. (Outside Goldman Sachs, of course.)"
But the point is it must be value, not speculation. Humans are, if encouraged by a reasonable return, enormously, unexpectedly productive. There's the key - give them a way to solve their problems and improve their lives and those of their children. There is no wealth that humans have not created, after all. Do you live in a place where this is not possible? While it is not so, there is no future.
As for the use we make of the earth, it's richness depends on how well you understand 'quality of life', and how careful you are in creating that value. True, we will soon loose our opportunity to roam in small bands over thousands of square miles of uninhabited wilderness, claiming that they are ours alone.
But there is no practical limit to our material culture - not everything must be made of wood and stone, or steel and glass, (there should be no shortage of that for some time), or reed and bone. We can make our personal environments of renewable grass and air, if we need to, and live better than we do now. We are now just beginning to learn how to husband the beauties of untrodden nature, and preserve them for the future of all living things.
As well as preserve, we can learn to cleanse and develop the underlying resources of air, water, seasons, weather - the macrochemistry that drives life on this planet. The answers lie in more diversity of choices, not in restricting human freedom, in learning the truth of how our planet works, and cooperating with it. The greatest creative force is not mute physics, but human inventiveness and courage. We need to add a substantial measure of caring - of finding honor and success in the value we add - that is all.
Why be downcast, as if the opportunities, freedoms, and beauties all lie behind us? We have in this generation inherited the responsibility, i.e. power, that we have always sought.
KScurmudgeon
'yes, we can'
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81. At 06:26am on 14 Jul 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
in passing, what's wrong with someone making lawn ornaments
After a little detective work and investigation (involving rather too many of a certain pseudo-Roman's archived posts, and I don't think I want to do that again) I think you'll find what's wrong with them (from the naked emperor's point of view) is that they are frogs.
Hope I've cleared that up.
(I don't think they're inflatable, though. No fan-blown snow, either as far as I can tell. That may of course be another reason for the emperor's dislike of the enterprise.)
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#84. squirrelist: "I think you'll find what's wrong with them (from the naked emperor's point of view) is that they are frogs."
As in French? It hadn't occurred to me that he might have gone so far, along with the "Freedom" fries of yesteryear.
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85:
Yep. He hates the French even more than everybody else. Including his own: "I had ancestors from both [Roumania and Hungary]. Frankly, they can kill each other if that's what they want for all I care." [from 'Lisbon: A Pandora's Box' 7.03pm 13 July 2009]
Sad, isn't it? I can't imagine saying that about mine. (Who aren't all British, by the way.)
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#87. "Sad, isn't it? I can't imagine saying that about mine. (Who aren't all British, by the way.)"
Venetian, Sicilian perhaps? At least, in that general area I'd guess.
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88: Now, now, if I'm suspected of having inherited a propensity for vendettas or secretive stranglings, I'll get banned. :-D
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88. At 08:31am on 14 Jul 2009, David_Cunard
Not that I'm feeling vindictive or anything, but there's something about today's date.
No guesses who I'd like to see heading for 'la lanterne".
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I've been very slow on the uptake. But it's obvious Justin's mate Lexington hasn't succeeded in achieving much of a concord(e) judging from some of the posts here?
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ref #52
First as I have stated in the past I don't believe in strict right wing or left wing categories but because you have a limited perspective. Classify me as a foriegn policy and fiscal conservative and a moderate social liberal.
As far as Wikipedia they won't even allow Hamas and Hezbollah to be called terrorists. Hugo's stealing of elections and stifiling of media are removed and the truth about the corruption of the U.N is blocked.
Wales couldn't debate Sarah Palin or Joe Biden.
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37. At 7:17pm on 13 Jul 2009, seanspa wrote:
Rereading simon's unattributed quote, I wonder if he has thought to pass this information on to obama. It might make him reconsider the stimulus package, which according to simon is a waste of money"
Really when did I say that?
No idea if the stimulus package will work, and neither does anyone else.
Here was I under the impression that the marshall plan was not spent in the US.
But you know better
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59. At 01:38am on 14 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
One mistake economists often make is to take relatively short trends of a decade or two and extrapolate them out indefinitely into the future. Lots of mistakes happen this way. 25 years ago, they said Japan would overtake the US. Fifty years ago it was the USSR. Seventy years ago it was Nazi Germany. A hundred years ago they thought the UK would rule the world forever. Today they say China will catch up to the US and surpass it around 2042. It's of course a pipe dream. The possibility that the gap between China's growth and America's growth continuing at the recent pace is impossible. Looking at the list in my post about America's assets, China falls short on many of these. It is inbred, aging, non-self renewing, short of energy, short of arable land, having some disaffected minorities and does not attract outside talent except to expoit its cheap labor and lack of laws. It is the largest toxic waste dump in the world where life isn't worth a nickel. If that ever changes, all that capital will simply pick up and go somewhere else, Africa or South America. Also, while China has saved a trillion dollars of US government debt, most of the money made in China is repatriated to foreign investors. The total profits made by outsiders who invested in China is many times a trillion dollars. In one BBC broadcast, one large Chinese manufacturer of badges, pins, etc. said that only 10 cents of each dollar made in profits in China remains in China. For many reasons, the long term prospects for China and India actually look grim. One problem China faces is a large underclass of very poor people who will sooner or later demand their fair share of the nation's wealth. Another is the inevitable demand of the growing middle class for more rights and freedoms than the government will consider. The stage is set for a lot of social upheaval. One thing we only rarely hear about are the street riots and other evidences of social disorder happening regularly around the country. If this builds due to widespread dissatisfaction, it could by itself upset China's apple cart. People do not migrate to China, they try to leave to live somewhere else."
Normally one would have fun with this buffoon and his racial hang ups but on this occasion he is largely correct.
The India and Chinese booms have been hyped beyond all reason.
The idiotic comment about immigration however undercut it, people immigrate to China all the time, many of them western.
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47. At 9:50pm on 13 Jul 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:
#4
Simon,
Who picked up the check for Germany, France and Japan? There have been many WWII posts on this blog, many of which overplayed America's role in the fighting but few of which have taken credit for America's real role, cleaning up the mess left behind and paying for the clean up. Germany and Japan are what they are because America fixed them up. France isn't what they are because of their attitude, you just have to look at Marcus."
That is insultuing and wrong. japan andGermany were powerful economies before 1939 and they regained their role after 1945.
it is a fact that the Marshall Plan has been overplayed and the growth largely came from the people themselves.
Cut it as you like the recovery of Germany and Japan after 1945 is unparallelled - the US does not come close.
Indeed the one time the US was ravaged by a major war the "reconstruction" was a disaster (especially for the black population) and it took decades for the afflicted states to recover.
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MarcusAureliusII (28):
That was absolutely brilliant; I couldn't have said it better myself.
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Simon21:
If we had not decide to "meddle" in Europe they would still be german or russian slaves. Don't you remember The Soviet Union? Did you ever have to hide under your desk at school to 'prepare' for nuclear war? The russians only bcame as powerful as they were because of all the land they took in WWII; they controlled half of Europe and Half of Asia.
And have you every been to the middle east? It's about as far from America as you can possibly get in every sense.
Go see how the rest of the world lives and then see how much you'll want to run down our country.
The world is a better place without Saddam. Sure it took a while for Dubya to get his act together in post-Saddam Iraq.
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KSC,
- "Yes, yes, but a properly trained population will always be able to support itself, expand, and improve their quality of life. "
Ah yes, the ever-expanding universe has room for an infinitely expanding population of homo supposedly-sapiens with ever-expanding percapita needs.....Despite calling ourselves Homo sapiens, were really pretty dumb."
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99. At 11:33am on 14 Jul 2009, GreySquirrel1867 wrote:
Simon21:
"If we had not decide to "meddle" in Europe they would still be german or russian slaves. Don't you remember The Soviet Union? Did you ever have to hide under your desk at school to 'prepare' for nuclear war? The russians only bcame as powerful as they were because of all the land they took in WWII; they controlled half of Europe and Half of Asia."
Gibberish that has nothing to do with the reconstruction of Japan and Germany.
And the US was not operating for altruism was it?
Oh and the British fought in WWII as well, before the US got involved.
"And have you every been to the middle east? It's about as far from America as you can possibly get in every sense."
So why does America conssitently interfere on behalf of occupiers, dictators, kings etc. Why does it not leave the area alone.
"Go see how the rest of the world lives and then see how much you'll want to run down our country."
Oh poor lamb so sorry. ALl I am doing is correcting the ridiulous hyperbole which tries to show that the US's mistakes do not matter - everyone elses do mind.
And as for restoring itself - Justin's point is childish and wrong.
Buling a world leading economy after a nuclear bomb is slightly more impressive than coping with bank failure.
"The world is a better place without Saddam. Sure it took a while for Dubya to get his act together in post-Saddam Iraq."
Yeh and the world was better off without the Tsar - but does that mean Stalin was OK?
Grow up
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Oh, no, not the war again. I didn't fight in it. My French friends didn't fight in it. My Italian friends didn't fight in it. an Arab friend's father was actually in the British army in it, though. Now, I'm sure we're all terribly terribly grateful, but can we move on?
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Grey,
- "Sure it took a while for Dubya to get his act together in post-Saddam Iraq."
Masterfully understated.U-boat 102,
- "This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules."
It appears only "House" music is acceptable here...Complain about this comment
Carolinensis,
- "The world is a better place without Saddam."
And DubyaComplain about this comment
Ref 103, Squirrelist
I always enjoyed history and my hobby since retirement has been genealogy which, obviously, focuses on the past, but I too find the obsession with events that happened long ago and the attempts to re-write history a bit disconcerting at a time when we are beset with problems and challenges that ought to be the main topic of discussion. Discussing who made the greatest difference in WWII is as trivial as wondering why so many species are becoming extinct when we consider the amount of evidence available and the depth and scope of investigations and discussions on these subjects.
Distractions may help us snap out of depressive moods, but they rarely solve problems. In fact, they are likely to aggravate them and prolong solutions. Personally, I am happy the world wars ended and hope they never happen again, but considering the misery that so many endure, the lack of hope and opportunities that exist in so many countries around the world, out of control population growth, dwindling natural resources, food shortages, spreading lethal diseases, the potential impact of climate change, environmental destruction, our focus on the manufacturing of more lethal and sophisticated weapons, the way we neglect social issues and our lack of economic and fiscal discipline, I am afraid social unrest and wars will continue to be the norm for many years to come.
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St Dom,
- "Discussing who made the greatest difference in WWII is as trivial as wondering why so many species are becoming extinct"
The latter is not trivial!Complain about this comment
# 103 squirrelist wrote:
"Oh, no, not the war again. I didn't fight in it. My French friends didn't fight in it. My Italian friends didn't fight in it. an Arab friend's father was actually in the British army in it, though. Now, I'm sure we're all terribly terribly grateful, but can we move on?"
"DON'T MENTION THE WAR!
I mentioned it once, but I think I got away with it"
B Fawlty, c 1974
[Apologies to some Americans, on whom this reference may be lost.]
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Simple Simian;
"Normally one would have fun with this buffoon and his racial hang ups but on this occasion he is largely correct."
I'm always right. It's just that you hate hearing the blunt truth because it blows your prejudices, your distorted European perspective on the world and on life out of the water. I could have made exactly the same observations about Europe and they would have been just as true. And I do.
People go to live in China largely because they are employed by companies that have factories there and are on an assignment to work managing them or oversing a project for them. For every foreigner who works temporarily in China, countless thousands pay snakeheads to get them out to someplace better...like Europe or America. Imagine, it's so bad in China that they'd rather live in Europe. Now that is bad.
Canard, has it ever occurred to your Eurominded blinkered sight that the very things you criticize and dispise about America result in those aspects of it that make it irresistable to you, the ones that make it impossible for you to decide to leave? It seems to me observing foreigners who come to America's shores whether as visitors even for the long term or to become citizens that they never really have more than a shallow understanding of it. If we demanded more profound understanding of it from them to qualify to become citizens, we'd never have them in anything like the numbers we want and need. So we accept just a rudimentary understanding as sufficient. That does not mean that Americans should take any of their opinions seriously. The shallowness of their real knowledge and understanding, like yours makes them unqualified to render a pertinent observation. This is reason alone to ignore most of them whether it is Justin Webb or George Soros just as we are right to ignore what the outside world says about us. Whether living here or somewhere else, they argue with our success without understanding the underpinnings of that create that success.
It is unfortunate that Justin Webb only gained a superficial understanding of the United States dispite the opportunity he had to put his first hand observations in context with its history, a crucial element in the process of comprehension in this case. Sir Christopher Meyers the UK ambassador to the US for over five years who was interviewed by BBC displayed the same shallowness of understanding. Those who come here at an early age or are born here and grow up here regardless of where they or their parents came from have no such difficulty. They get it implicitly.
Listening to what foreigners whether they be journalists or just ordinary people have to say about America is like looking at our reflection through a badly distorted mirror. Amusing in a carnival fun house for a few moments but of no practical value. Only we are in a position to judge who and what we are and what we should do in the way of making changes to our society.
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Ahh Justin, in the future you will provide an excellent case study in how journalists can let their faith blind them to reality.
Uncle Sam's a good'ole chap. Despite a few minor hiccups, such as invading a couple of countries, killing a few hundred thousand in the process, displacing a few million, supporting the odd undemocratic regime, dabbling in a bit of torture here and there, and despite being a tad lax at letting banks make profit from rampant speculation and gambling, then bailing them out when it all goes bust at the expense of the poor, he's really a thoroughly good guy who means well.
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"Only we are in a position to judge who and what we are and what we should do in the way of making changes to our society. "
Did Marcus really say that.
Amazing.
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Sam Sparrow;
"Uncle Sam's a good'ole chap. Despite a few minor hiccups, such as invading a couple of countries, killing a few hundred thousand in the process, displacing a few million, supporting the odd undemocratic regime, dabbling in a bit of torture here and there, and despite being a tad lax at letting banks make profit from rampant speculation and gambling, then bailing them out when it all goes bust at the expense of the poor, he's really a thoroughly good guy who means well."
Yes, that would include invading Nazi Germany to save Britain and France and allowing European banks and other enterprises to make profits at the expense of American taxpayers and workers after the war to rebuild their shattered societies. In retrospect, a bad mistake as the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Doubled over in Dublin;
"Oh, no, not the war again. I didn't fight in it. My French friends didn't fight in it. My Italian friends didn't fight in it."
Just as I suspected. You all dropped your guns and ran as fast and as far as your legs could carry you....until you got to the nearest bar.
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Basically, the rules are about to change. No longer, are products being made in the US, and frankly, without manufacturing, we will be in very serious trouble. In fact, the loss of so much manufacturing is the real cause of our current problems.
The Global Corporation is a danger to the economies and governments of the world, and some of those movies about Global Corporations taking over entire governments, may not be so far-fetched as we might think. They hold no allegiance to anyone but themselves.....not that different from drug lords, actually.
Nor do I think that people in the US, have the intestinal fortitude they once did. They have become soft and lazy, and that has allowed crime to increase dramatically, so people are not even safe in their homes, today. Drug gangs are in almost every city of any size, Hispanic gangs from Mexico and Central America, have crossed the border illegally and set up shop in the US. The problem is so bad, we may eventually have civil war within the country.
While I recognize these problems are permeating all countries in today's world, the US used to set the example for others. I no longer think that is true. In fact, I can't think of anyone who is setting an adequate example for the rest of the world, today, in any country.
There is no country that has taken a firm position on the guerilla warfare of the Islamic threat, as Islam has now exported their terror tactics to many countries around the world, and everywhere you find an Islamic presence, you find conflict, whether in Thailand, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Somalia, or Afghanistan.
As a UK person, you may think that America is still as strong as ever.....but as an American, who is old enough to have watched things deteriorate, over time, I am not so convinced.
I see major issues with American ethics, abiding by law, work ethic, and priorities of life. People have the crazy notion, today, that everything should be "fun", and they seem to have no concept of what is truly important in life.
Professional sports has literally ruined the country, by allowing the common citizen to identify with sports figures whose entire claim to fame, is winning a game. Games do not make life, nor do they set an example for others, in how to live life. On the contrary, many of these sports "heros", are poor role models, and set a very bad example in behavior, for others. (This is true in most soccer countries of the world as well.)
I can recall, when many people in the US, never locked a home or a car.....and today, I know no one, who does that. I think that says a lot.
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Rick,
- "...the most striking and immediate effect of the spread of European settlement beyond the boundaries of Europe itself was its lethal impact on indigenous peoples and societies."
And whence came the "Global Corporation" on whose toxicity we agree?Clive Ponting
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Marcus,
as an Israeli living in the States. I do find your unwavering support of my country and you derision of Europe and Britain slightly strange to say the least. Isn't it obvious that both the US and Europe have made and are still making contributions to the world in large, which we all enjoy to some extent. I think Britain in particular has invented a huge amount of technology which we all take for granted, which is quite something for a small island.. Unless of course I was wrongly taught at school..
world wide web
telephone
television
jet engine
fibre optics
computer
and of course Americas German scientists worked on the bomb and were the backbone of NASA.
While Russia's German scientists were the back bone of their space mission.
The US and the EU have a lot to offer each other and should strive to work more together and not withdraw into isolationism..
The new NASA-ESA joint Mars project is a good example of pooling talent and resources
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Rick,
- "While I recognize these problems are permeating all countries in today's world, the US used to set the example for others. I no longer think that is true. In fact, I can't think of anyone who is setting an adequate example for the rest of the world, today, in any country.
In every one of these places (and many others) you will also find the legacy of EuroAmerican/Judaeo-Christian colonialism. While I agree that no-one is setting an adequate example for the future, the present situation is very much a product of our example - far moreso than anything due to any Islamic "presence".There is no country that has taken a firm position on the guerilla warfare of the Islamic threat, as Islam has now exported their terror tactics to many countries around the world, and everywhere you find an Islamic presence, you find conflict, whether in Thailand, Indonesia, the Phillipines, Somalia, or Afghanistan."
Salaam
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For MA2
I will not mention the war, But.
Never in the field of human blogging,
Was so much moaned about,
By one person,
To so few.
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RIP Titus
UNDER a spreading chestnut tree
The village smithy stands;
The smith, a mighty man is he,
With large and sinewy hands;
And the muscles of his brawny arms
Are strong as iron bands.
His hair is crisp, and black, and long,
His face is like the tan;
His brow is wet with honest sweat,
He earns whate'er he can, 10
And looks the whole world in the face,
For he owes not any man.
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116, Rick, I share your views. It's all about the "dumbing down of America."
The Powers That Be decided some time ago that an informed, intelligent US
citizen was in the way of economic progress.
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David_Cunard #63: '"Not forgetting of course that most (houses) are not paid for and tens of thousands of houses are repossessed. That's Heaven?"
Most? Don't you think that's a bit of a stretch? Of course tens of thousands are repossessed, because tens of thousands of people naively accepted sub prime mortgages thinking they could pay them off when they should have known better and/or people's banks, in a selfish effort to make as many sales as possible, pushed sub prime mortgages on them. But do tell me, please, how you specifically know that "most" of the houses that people are still living in are not paid for?
"Tell that to those whose skin is darker; I think you'll find that prejudice still exists - as does the bigotry in middle America towards those who are gay."
Now this statement in particular really worries me. I know that it is not exactly fashionable to support and/or defend Marcus, but I don't think his statement on race is necessarily that wide of the mark. Yes prejudice still exists; it will untill the end of time. And most definitely people in middle America especially treat gays like lepers; and here too, this will always remain, at least in America, to some extent. But you, kind sir, act as though we are still of the mindset of the 1850s and that, sir, is simply factually untrue. We have made great strides. This is not the view of an "America cheerleader" or one who is "anti-American." It is a fact stated by an observer. All one can "hope" for is that "things can only get better," and of this I am certain. But let me tell you something right now. If you're expecting that one day, in America, all prejudice and bigotry will be gone and merely a distant unpleasant memory of the past, well then you are fooling yourself. Because we'll never be a "perfect union." Its simply just not possible. Perhaps you'll have better luck in finding a more accepting attitude to those of different races in Europe; I'm being dead serious. I haven't heard stories from Europe post war about struggles for racial equality that have even begun to match the harsh struggles endured, and are continuing to be endured in America. Just a suggestion.
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Touche', Justin Webb. At times it seems Brits forget how much England has taught America. Albeit, we don't always take the suggestions, as during WW2. The Royal Navy suggested we convoy. The U.S. Navy did not and the wrecks of coastal freighters are abundant. We did eventually. As Lexington returns to Hampshire, the UK is no longer a manufacturing Juggernaut, and neither America. London is the financial capitol. Really, the differences of Wall Street and London Center, are mostly government regulations. Most Historians have little to praise George 1. Yet he set the stage for the American revolution which, set the stage for the ever evolving Anglophone World. Hip, hip, hurrah. Y'all take care now, hear.
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Ref123 Cannyhephaistos.
Did you model your fire dogs whilst MA2 was on your mind ?.
The first pict,with the one on the right is as I see him!.
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J Ferrera (is that another "Smith"?
- "At times it seems Brits forget how much England has taught America. ... the UK is no longer a manufacturing Juggernaut"
Be careful equating England and UKComplain about this comment
Mr Wales (127)
My husband said you might like to see these
Fancy!
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"The whole point of America is that you CAN fail."
I'm not so sure that's true anymore, Justin. Obama has ignored U.S. bankrupcy law to force through his "restructuring" of GM and Chrysler at the expense of their secured creditors, in essence government did not allow two hugely mismanaged companies to fail but instead bent our laws and pumped in billions of dollars to prop them up--while at the same time formulating policies designed to make owning and operating an automobile less and less attractive for more and more people. By riding roughshod over our bankrupcy laws he's thrown the future of investing in this country into chaos.
Oh wait...maybe by not allowing GM and Chrysler to fail we're merely setting ourselves up for bigger failure down the road, right? I get it. Pretty clever, Justin.
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# 122 ukwales wrote:
"For MA2
I will not mention the war, But.
Never in the field of human blogging,
Was so much moaned about,
By one person,
To so few. "
I genuinely laughed out loud at that.
Might I also suggest
"He will moan at them in the fields
He will moan at them in the streets
He will moan at them on the beaches
He will moan at them on the landing grounds
He will NEVER stop moaning"
Or "He has nothing to offer but moaning, chauvinism, sneer and insult"?
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#111. MarcusAureliusII: "has it ever occurred to your Eurominded blinkered sight that the very things you criticize and dispise about America result in those aspects of it that make it irresistable to you, the ones that make it impossible for you to decide to leave?"
First, there is nothing wrong with constructive criticism, and second, I have never, not once, written that I "dispise" America or anything about it. It's people like you who attribute feelings to me which I have never experienced who I find despicable. Do not put words into my mouth!
"Only we are in a position to judge who and what we are and what we should do in the way of making changes to our society."
If that is so, then only the born nationals of any nation can decide what's good for them. By your logic, there should have been no invasion of Iraq, since no-one there begged America to come to its aid. Likewise no involvement elsewhere since only those countries can judge for themselves what they want. You really must get more sleep since your marbles are now scattered across the floor, many of them never to be found again.
P.S. If American education is so wonderful and its technology so great, why is it that you cannot spell or use an automatic spell-checker?
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Squirrelist #76: '"Doesn't this strike anyone else as a rather perverse argument? That you must have many who fail, many who are deprived, many who suffer, to progress? Suppose harshness, unfairness and ugliness one day end up outweighing the 'successes'? What then?"
We would pick up the pieces and continue to try to find a way to eliminate them as best we can as we always have, as the outside world always has, and as we (America and the world together) will always do. Its not some engenious American trate, its humanity's only option.
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114. At 2:26pm on 14 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Yes, that would include invading Nazi Germany to save Britain and France and allowing European banks and other enterprises to make profits at the expense of American taxpayers and workers after the war to rebuild their shattered societies. In retrospect, a bad mistake as the road to hell is paved with good intentions. "
DOnt you mean Britain and France saving America by alerting them to the fact a major war was taking palce while the great US public still beleived Hitler was an OK guy worth trading with -even after he started muurdering jews, the disabled etc..
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The assertion by Scott.. (#130) that President Obama has the power to ignore U.S. bankrupcy law is a canard. The U. S. President has no power to dictate policy to the U. S. Courts, which are an independent branch of government. The GM creditors were represented in the bankruptcy, and some (perhaps all) of them are not happy with how it turned out. That's not surprising. There are always a lot of unhappy people in a bankruptcy proceeding.
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111. At 1:30pm on 14 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Simple Simian;
"Normally one would have fun with this buffoon and his racial hang ups but on this occasion he is largely correct."
I'm always right."
Not aboput your opinions of black people, native Americans, arabs, moslems, asian, gays etc.
It's just that you hate hearing the blunt truth because it blows your prejudices, your distorted European perspective on the world and on life out of the water."
I am not European but I am not a racist bigot either.
"People go to live in China largely because they are employed by companies that have factories there and are on an assignment to work managing them or oversing a project for them."
So people do immigrate to China.
You admit you were wrong well done.
" For every foreigner who works temporarily in China, countless thousands pay snakeheads to get them out to someplace better...like Europe or America. Imagine, it's so bad in China that they'd rather live in Europe. Now that is bad."
But people do immigrate to China.
You said they didnt.
Game set and match.
"Canard, has it ever occurred to your Eurominded blinkered sight that the very things you criticize and dispise about America result in those aspects of it that make it irresistable to you, the ones that make it impossible for you to decide to leave? It seems to me observing foreigners who come to America's shores whether as visitors even for the long term or to become citizens that they never really have more than a shallow understanding of it."
So Americans immigrate to China because they love it's government? Wow.
"If we demanded more profound understanding of it from them to qualify to become citizens, we'd never have them in anything like the numbers we want and need. So we accept just a rudimentary understanding as sufficient. That does not mean that Americans should take any of their opinions seriously. The shallowness of their real knowledge and understanding, like yours makes them unqualified to render a pertinent observation. "
Well judging people on their colour is pretty shallow and this is what you do.
Do you remember commeting on the native Americans committing "suicide" by being massacred?
How shallow is that.
Unfortunately your judgemetn is grossly distorted by your views of blacks etc. No person with these views has anything worth saying.
And certainly not by a "white caucasian" (as if there is any other kind) who spends considerable time lambasting those humans who do not look like him.
Committing "suicide" by being massacred. Talk about blaming the victim.
I suppose the jews, gypsies, disabled in WWII also committed "suicide" according to you.
WOnder what your views of rape victims are.
Let us hope you do not commit "suicide" with a mugger.
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Squirrelist #82: '"Statements of optimism (like "we've been through this sort of thing once, we can get out from under again") let alone rousing cheers or appeals to faith are not solutions. I think more people in the US need a closer look at the figures, something many people in Europe are all too uneasily conscious of now, I think."
Wholeheartedly agree. But Squirrelist, if you are going to attempt to converse with Americans, there is something you need to understand about us in order to do so. And it is that we are a very simple, reward-based people. We need words of encouragement before we can cary on with the business of trying to fix our problems. Sounds stupid I know, but its just the way we are. Just be thankful Britains aren't like that. Oh wait! What was New Labour's campaign slogan in 1997? O yes...I remember...it was "Things can only get better!" Huh! I guess we're not all that different after all.
Don't be rude. Of course Americans don't honestly believe that chanting "Yes we can" is going to solve our problems. But if something like that lifts one's spirits in order to start them on their way, then what's the harm in that?
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"Gunsandreligion Conversion to a "green," carbon-neutral economy will probably be a real
boon to us in the advanced economies of the world. We need not fear it.
But, we need to find a way to include the developing world in the changes
that are necessary so that they, too, can ascend and not become mass victims."
I am for working on climate change, but we must come up with cost effective ways to work on this issue. Carbon taxes will just deepen our ecomnomic woes. There is a look before I leap mentality among the folks that push green agendas. What about drilling for oil then using Tboone pickens plan. All Obama has offered is to tax us more and people are waking up it is apparent in his poll numbers.
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There's that (r-word) (b-word) epithet again (#136). Marcus certainly seems to have some hangups about other groups of people, but they are based on politics and national culture, for the most part, especially directed towards Europeans (that's not a "race"). A few people seem to take pleasure in raising the stakes with these inflammatory accusations, but it does them no credit.
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Where are you from? Our home place makes it mark on us.
To reach a port we must sail, sometimes with the wind and sometimes against it.
But we must not drift or lie at anchor.
Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out.
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Peter, "Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."
Yes, and
"People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are.
I don't believe in circumstances.
The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look
for the circumstances they want, and, if they can't find them,
make them. "
-- George Bernard Shaw
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Marcus.. (#111) "Listening to what foreigners whether they be journalists or just ordinary people have to say about America is like looking at our reflection through a badly distorted mirror."
That may well be true for the most part, but I expect it would likely usually be the case when Americans comment on other countries. Only a few people become so experienced in a culture not their own that they qualify as experts.
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#125. NoRashDecisions:David_Cunard #63: '"Not forgetting of course that most (houses) are not paid for and tens of thousands of houses are repossessed. That's Heaven?"
"Most? . . . please, how you specifically know that "most" of the houses that people are still living in are not paid for?"
Like MAII, you attribute to me a remark I did not make - you have inserted the word 'houses' where it did not exist. The "most" referred to material goods of all kinds, since a great proportion of Americans pay with credit cards.
"Yes prejudice still exists; it will untill the end of time. And most definitely people in middle America especially treat gays like lepers; and here too, this will always remain, at least in America, to some extent."
So you agree with me. I don't then see the point of the rest of your response. Ever heard of racial profiling?
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Drat!
And I was going to quote Shaw!
- "If all the economists in the world were lined up end to end, they would not reach a conclusion."
orSo there!
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115. At 2:30pm on 14 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Doubled over in Dublin;
"Oh, no, not the war again. I didn't fight in it. My French friends didn't fight in it. My Italian friends didn't fight in it."
Just as I suspected. You all dropped your guns and ran as fast and as far as your legs could carry you....until you got to the nearest bar.
Look, if you want to accuse someone of being a coward just for a cheap laugh, at least get your target right. That was me. F. . .(oh, can't use that F abbreviation, can I here?). . .S: We weren't bornthen. Or was that just a really cheap nasty jibe at Ireland being neutral? Like Switzerland?
Now, whose side were your ancestors in Roumania and Hungary on then?
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SaintDominick #106. . .
Don't hurt yourself trying to understand all this World War II debating nonsense too much. It'll just drive you up a wall. But if you want my opinion on why people continue to, and probably will continue to debate it as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, then quite simply I think it is to stir the pot, offend others, inflame tentions, and bost about one's respective country's role in the war. Some people are just rude that way.
The truth is, we could debate until we are blue in the face, and we still won't be able to come to a consensus on which countries played the most crucial role in defeating the Nazis, which countries were most brave, which countries were most heroic, which countries sacrificed the most, which countries fought with the interests of their allies most at heart as aposed to their own self interests, much less which countries put off engaging in war in the true hopes of avoiding it as aposed to doing so in order to make as big a profit as possible from their aid etc as they watched their allies fight for their lives.
Most particularly, the British will always think that America delayed entering into the war until it could no longer aford to as it had been attacked, so as to make a profit off of the British, French etc through the Lend Lease Act while it watched them fight for their lives, thereby branding the US as not having its allies interests at heart through our Lend Lease programs, but our own. And the Americans will always think that the British were naive in thinking that they could ever nigociate a peace treaty with Hitler after the ones he had broken so many times before, and therefor essentially setting themselves up for what was to come, which as a result made Americans feel resentful about having to eventually join.
So why debate it anymore. Its just a waste of time.
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139. At 5:39pm on 14 Jul 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:
There's that (r-word) (b-word) epithet again (#136). Marcus certainly seems to have some hangups about other groups of people, but they are based on politics and national culture, for the most part, especially directed towards Europeans (that's not a "race"). A few people seem to take pleasure in raising the stakes with these inflammatory accusations, but it does them no credit."
There are no races but there are rascists and having "hang ups" about non-whites is just a euphenism.
Marcus is a superior "white caucasian" and his bitternes is generated at least in part through fustration that his superiority is not acknowledged.
He also has no love for the US since he seems to loath so many Americans - American nations, blacks etc
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139. At 5:39pm on 14 Jul 2009, Gary_A_Hill:
Of coursehe doesn't use the R word. It'd get him banned.
"A few people seem to take pleasure in raising the stakes with these inflammatory accusations, but it does them no credit."
Yes, because anyone with half an eye should be able to get what he's up to.
If someone were to continually to asperge the "indigenous inhabitants of Canada and Greenland" that'd be just "based on politics and national culture" would it?
Sure. Give me a break.
It's not those who object to it that are being "inflammatory". And yes, they should take credit for pointing out who is. They sour every BBC blog they touch.
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131 john-In-Dublin: 122 ukwales
LOL. "Up with which we will not put"?
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squirrelist (#148) "They sour every BBC blog they touch."
I find the exchanges between MA2 and S21 pretty sour on both sides, myself. I'm hoping that Mr. Mardell will start a new blog pretty soon and that it will contain some topics worthy of serious discussion.
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UK Wales, John-in-dublin and others of like mind:
Given the rate at which these U-boats are turning up around here these days, I think some of us are going to have to try going in convoy for protection!
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#73
Squirl,
Not really. It's a matter of fact. When your post is to call someone an idiot because they can't use something that is the most common assault rifle on the planet, but they actually have a fairly rare weapon that most folks could not use, even folks who know guns, you're lying or stupid. That has nothing to so with strategy. It's like saying:
'Look at that stupid pheasant swimming in the pond, pheasants can't swim. What an idiot'
'That's a duck'
Then you chime in:
'He was talking about golf'
Then later he says:
'I don't talk about anything smaller than an ostrich'
That's the problem with context. It changes the meaning of things. Auralianus tries that kind of high school debating school tactic all the time. To the child it seems clever. The problem is to anyone with any intellect it just looks stupid.
Hunter Sam
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Bere54:
Obviously if I said " never lived here or visited" then my post would not include people that live here.
...people can say what they wish, and so can I.
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138, tdj, personally, I am not an Obama fan, so even if I admit the virtues
of a cap and trade plan, I am probably not the one to approve of what the
Democrats will do with the money.
They'll probably squander it on some ill-advised social welfare scheme,
as part of their scheme to redistribute wealth as they see fit.
But, McCain also proposed a cap and trade plan, and, if done correctly, it
could, in combination with many other things, lead us in the right direction.
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#81
Hi David,
Depends on your definition, commonly the difference is that citizens can partake in the political process, nationals may include citizens and non citizens.
But that wasn't what I was thinking. I was thinking more in terms of folks having a common origin, tradition and language. So I was thinking of an American National being someone who grew up here, vs. a citizen who may have been naturalized from anywhere, having different perceptions.
Of course I could be wrong but that is what I was getting at.
Pedant Sam
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106. At 12:48pm on 14 Jul 2009, saintDominick wrote: Ref 103, Squirrelist
Agreed. (But we're getting lost in the fog, by the look of it. Looks like it's 1812 all over again.)
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Use of the r-word epithet as a ploy to avoid substantive discussion of policy has become so prevalent in the US that it has a name. It's called "playing the race card."
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153. At 6:43pm on 14 Jul 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:
#73 Squirl, Not really. It's a matter of fact. When your post is to call someone an idiot because they can't use something that is the most common assault rifle on the planet, but they actually have a fairly rare weapon that most folks could not use, even folks who know guns, you're lying or stupid.
Well, I wasn't defending him. Anyway, I see. Don't know anything about guns.
Anyway, we agree that his tactics are pathetic and his strategy is worse.
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senoritalucy 154
@ 39 "Just because I have learned about your countries in school or hear about your countries in the news, I don't claim to have your countries figured out...nor do the majority of Americans".
@ 154 "...people can say what they wish, and so can I."
You tell them child.
We know Europe is somewhere off the coast to the East. How can anyone think us uninformed?
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159. At 7:00pm on 14 Jul 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:
' "Use of the r-word epithet as a ploy to avoid substantive discussion of policy has become so prevalent in the US that it has a name. It's called "playing the race card." '
Some can tell when the only card someone has is an Ace of Spades, not the Queen of Hearts. Or the Joker.
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162. At 7:30pm on 14 Jul 2009, waltonmountain wrote
"We know Europe is somewhere off the coast to the East. How can anyone think us uninformed?"
Did you know you can find it going West as well? ;-)
(That's what some people think, anyway.)
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153. At 6:43pm on 14 Jul 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:
#
That's the problem with context. It changes the meaning of things. Auralianus tries that kind of high school debating school tactic all the time. To the child it seems clever. The problem is to anyone with any intellect it just looks stupid.
Hunter Sam
Very lucid.
I thought it meant he was, as Private Eye put it about jurnalists and politicos who had long liquid lunches, "tired and emotional"
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A casual read of a few books about world history demonstrates that empires collapse because of too many failures. With the U.S. now financially beholden to foreign interests, including at least $1 trillion to China, that gives cause to wonder whether it is in the process of joining those upon which the sun already has set.
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#151. At 6:40pm on 14 Jul 2009, David_Cunard
This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
I'll be a nickel to a dollar that's because it contained the phrase "r****l profiling".
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David_Cunard (#168), perhaps. Maybe it would be a good idea for all to avoid that angle and discuss the merits of a proposition rather than the (supposed) motivation behind it.
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@167 - I wonder the same thing; although eyes are now on the BRIC economies to show the way forward, those with a slightly longer term view are suggesting that the next true superpower is a united Africa. Obviously, this is a little way off, and there's a technologically driven revolutionary possibility - Singularity - possibly in the way. It's speculation, of course.
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David (#168), Oh, and in such situations, Americans bet "dollars to doughnuts."
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@156 - Instead of Cap and Trade, why not revamp the American heartland? Freeman Dyson, a noted Heretic, proposes turning a certain amount of Kansas over to the idea of topsoil farming, on the basis that biomass absorbs carbon. Here he suggests how we can turn carbon into topsoil. It's worth a read.
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Here's an amusing story from Dallas County, Texas:
Big-D County Meeting
Says something about the state of race relations, or education, or both, in the US.
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Dark Side, they used to burn heretics, right? But, now they can't do that
because of all of the carbon which would be released into the atmosphere.
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Guns - you know, you're right. I fear this may spell the end for the Inquisition.
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goon, that was unexpected.
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To #159: Gary_A_Hill
How do you distinguish between "playing the race card" and a valid accusation of racism? What would convince you that a poster was racist?
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Simon (137):
But there ARE non-white caucasians; Ethiopians have a semitic origions. Other than their skin color, the anotomical features of Ethiopians are more like middle-eastern peoples than other african peoples.
If skin color were the ONLY feature of a person's race then the subcontinent of India would have peoples of every race known to man.
Yes, race is still an issue in America, but it's going away. My Great Granparents were blatent, unapologetic racists. But gradually, from their generation to mine, those attitudes went away as our world got smaller.
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_marko (#177), that is not a judgment I would make. As I said in an earlier post (which a couple of others ridiculed), I don't think that's a fair thing to call someone on the basis of what is generally posted here, whether actually true or not (because the truth is unknowable in this case). If someone were to post something overt in that nature, the moderators would likely remove it. Probably on their own initiative, but in response to a complaint in any case.
A judgment on that specific charge, in the absence of clear remarks supporting it, should be based on observation of how someone treats other people in their direct dealings with them, as individuals, or differently depending on their race. This is something we cannot observe of others who post here.
What one frequent poster here exhibits is ethnocentrism, where the ethnic group with which he identifies seems to be "American." That's not particularly well-defined nowadays, so I would say it is more like "traditional American values." It is not race-based, race-based judgments in American culture being a perversion of American values. I expect that said person would get along fine with Americans of any race who shared his values. Ethnocentrism is not racism per se.
I'm not defending ethnocentrism; I'm a pluralist myself and find extreme nationalism and other forms of ethnocentrism to be misguided. As for "race," it is a fiction. We are all one people. The only persons who have a legitimate concern for race are, in my opinion, anthropologists who study movements of people, where it has some validity.
"Playing the race card" is exploiting sensitivity to racial classification in inappropriate ways. Going along with it is "political correctness," an oversensitivity to what is or is not permissable expression. I don't have much regard for the political correctness police, myself.
That's the way I see it, anyway.
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175. At 10:36pm on 14 Jul 2009, Dark Side of the Goon wrote:
Guns - you know, you're right. I fear this may spell the end for the Inquisition.
Not at all. You must have heard of carbon trading?
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178. At 11:51pm on 14 Jul 2009, GreySquirrel1867 wrote:
Simon (137):
But there ARE non-white caucasians; Ethiopians have a semitic origions. Other than their skin color, the anotomical features of Ethiopians are more like middle-eastern peoples than other african peoples."
Caucasian is a nineteenth century term, it has no real meaning. It is simply the way certain white people refer to themselves.
"If skin color were the ONLY feature of a person's race then the subcontinent of India would have peoples of every race known to man."
Well what else do rascists use, apart from eyes. We are not dealing with a real science here but bigots who want to believe themselves superior.
"Yes, race is still an issue in America, but it's going away. My Great Granparents were blatent, unapologetic racists. But gradually, from their generation to mine, those attitudes went away as our world got smaller."
Good to hear but it has not gone as far as one would think. After 9/11 anti-semetic remarks about Moslems suddenly became de rigeur and one suddenly saw material in the mainstream press that could have been lifted directly from Der Sturmer. Much of it, though by no means all, American.
It was as though the world went back fifty years.
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Goon,
Carbon into topsoil Here, and also
here, or just google terra preta
It's an old Amerindian technique. A gift from the past to the culture which destroyed theirs.....
Nuh wah doe he yaw duh
("Peace" in Cherokee)
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173. At 9:43pm on 14 Jul 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:
Here's an amusing story from Dallas County, Texas:
Big-D County Meeting
Says something about the state of race relations, or education, or both, in the US."
I would suggest that says more about human relations in that particular department.
The alleged "over sensitivity" of some towards racial slurs often occurs because no one bothers to note the casual offensive remarks where the victim doesn't bridle.
Victims of rascism like victims of rape are usually very reluctant to complain.
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The Europeons having lost every single argument trying to defend their criminal societies and unevolved civilizations have resorted to the last tactic scoundrels can use, name calling. It's all they have left, the last blunt arrow in their pathetic quiver of arguments. Europe cannot be defended against anyone who knows its history or mentality. It is guilty as charged of the most crimes, the most heinous crimes, and the greatest irrationality of any place in human history. This is the first time many of them have heard it and it is coming from an American. Wow do they ever hate it but they surely deserve every bit of it that's dished out to them, these snooty know nothings with their superior attitudes need to be put in their place. Even Robert Mugabe, a man with whom I agree with on nothing else in life deservedly gave it to them and told them what they are. It was the one time he was right on the mark...SPOT ON!
Mr. Webb, how dare you presume to tell America what its failings and shortcomings are when the country you come from, that plessed blot is as horrible as any that ever existed on this earth. Whom do you think invented the dilemma of Iraq in the first place, it didn't invent itself. The UK invented it. That imbecile who was your greatest national hero of the 20th century sowed the very seeds of this war himself with his own hand by drawing lines on maps telling the world how it should run itself. Your nation ruled one quarter of the world a mere hundred years ago and at the rate things are going, in not more than a few years from now it will no longer even rule itself. Your nation is as failed a nation as there ever was. It is not merely financially bankrupt, it is bankrupt in every other conceivable way and its only plan is to join others just like it, 27 drowning fools who can't swim holding on to each other for dear life hoping against hope of not dying. But Europe is dying and it will not be around in the form its in much longer. And when it is gone, I will be the first and loudest to say good riddance.
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Gar,
Love the Dallas tale. Pity the Black guy wasn't joking!
Carolinensis 178, Well said. My great grandparents owned slaves. Theirs may have also had indentured (white) servants who were little different from slaves, with the important difference that their slavery was time-limited, so they weren't "property". You didn't do that to "white" people.
To blind one's self to the evil of true Slavery, you have to convince yourself of the "natural inferiority" of the enslaved. This is made far easier by the concept of [the "r word"]. One can think of them as, to some degree, "sub-human". This is related to the useful technique in war (and recent "diplomacy") of demonising "the enemy", e.g. a country which has not attacked anyone in more than a century can be threatened with nuclear holocaust for enriching uranium....
But, back to the "r word", it is alive and well in America and elsewhere, but as a White Southern Boy, whose Maternal ancestors were proud members of the DAR, I am proud (I hear you, Sister Michelle, loud and clear) to have witnessed transformative improvement in America, some of it at very close quarters.
In the UK, though I live in a relatively homogenous rural area, and note little bad r-attitude among my neighbours, I have the feeling that in some of Urban Britain, particularly England, all is not well. There is a legacy of Empire, instead of Slavery, but....and then there's the "clash of civilisations", and the legacy of "Perfidious Albion"
Almost every trouble spot on the globe bears some of her fingerprints.
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We've stumbled in every era (with some different ethical and moral issues, some recurring) just like every other nation. The world does like we've done ourselves. Admire the ability to stare down the faults and look for change, while condemning hypocrisy (usually well after the fact, but still...).
The world both admires our strength of leadership and hates our abuse of its position. We admire our history of continual progress towards "a more perfect union" while struggling with changes that are harder to make in a system that resists change the longer it is in place.
The best part of the U.S. is its historic and future symbolism of all that is great and possible. The worst part is the bits we haven't accomplished yet.
We're a work in progress, and as long as the work continues, progress eventually follows, even after the hardest of times. To borrow the coaches line to a running back, we just have to "keep our feet moving".
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Marcass, to quote a great American president, "There you go again..."
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188. At 01:21am on 15 Jul 2009, gunsandreligion::
Oh so he does. Stoking up the fires again. Boring, isn't it? He's going to have to pay a fortune in carbon permits, or plant a rainforest the size of Brazil at this rate. All that smoke and hot air.
He must be singly responsible for at least a tenth of a degree of global warming, I reckon. But then, one day the climate around here will change and people will totally disregard him instead of making excuses for him. I hope.
(I can't quite think what the Brits did to his ancestors in Roumania and Hungary to deserve this? Thought it was mostly Mongols, Cossacks and Turks who caused the problems there. And the Romans of course. Anyway, I'm sure he'll think of something.)
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185. At 00:50am on 15 Jul 2009, Apostle_Peter_Cephas wrote:
If it is true all whites are racist, Marcus must be the most honest person on this message board
"Legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin. . . said today that Sessions implied that being a white man, thats normal. Everybody else has biases and prejudices.
[From The Plum Line- Greg Sargent's blog]
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Re: 140. Apostle
That was a interesting post and more meaningful than most.
Much of the U.S. is firmly at anchor and absorbs the rubbish that surrounds them and is fed to them.
A former US VP swayed the world with faux science (predrawn conclusion, and dismiss observations that are to the contrary) so he could sell carbon credits.
The current POTUS has never made a payroll in his life. He has demonstrated an urgency to SPEND and disdains the most minimal of fiscal responsibility. Other than the California Senator's husband that got control of $1B of property from the Stimulus and ACORN that got $330M (for creative voter registration), the beneficiaries of the current administration are few in number.
"Things turn out best for people who make the best of the way things turn out."
The future looks bright for those that register the dead and are married to senior liberals.
Given their resumes and activities, Palin would make a good neighbor. Obama would not. Other than that, they are about equal.
If I attended a church as racially and culturally damning as Mr. Wright's, I would make squirrel's list.
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Is it so that the best way to be a bigot is to point out other bigots and hope one doesn't get noticed?
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"what the Brits did to his ancestors in Romania and Hungary"
Well it was the Irish really. One of them wrote a book that told of his Achilles heel.
GARLIC.
Which explains a lot when it comes down to it.
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Garlic AND Excellent Stakes.
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#184. MarcusAureliusII: "Mr. Webb, how dare you presume to tell America what its failings and shortcomings are when the country you come from, that plessed blot is as horrible as any that ever existed on this earth."
What's good for the goose is good for the gander so, to use your own phraseology, how dare you presume to tell Europeans what failings and shortcomings it has. And since you have never visited England, the blessed plot of which you write, how dare you describe it as horrible when you have not even an inkling of what it is like. Your information comes from books and television with the occasional film thrown into the mix.
"Europe is dying and . . . when it is gone, I will be the first and loudest to say good riddance."
Even Jesus didn't live forever, so you have a very long wait, so long that you, your children, their children and their children's children will not see it in their lifetime. On the other hand, they may all live to see the demise of the present power of the United State; every dog has its day and now it's another's turn.
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191. At 03:58am on 15 Jul 2009, youngasterix
Dear me. you appear to have missed the discussion re House Rules and British law over the last thread or two. If I read you aright, you are accusing more than one public figure of potentially criminal activities.
I do hope you have more evidence than mere assertion to back you up. Or you have a lot of money.
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172. At 9:03pm on 14 Jul 2009, Dark Side of the Goon wrote:
"@156 - Instead of Cap and Trade, why not revamp the American heartland? Freeman Dyson, a noted Heretic, proposes turning a certain amount of Kansas over to the idea of topsoil farming, on the basis that biomass absorbs carbon. Here he suggests how we can turn carbon into topsoil. It's worth a read."
Not possible here in Kansas - the EPA is already putting the screws to us for putting too much dust into the air(PM10)during fall plowing and summer wheat harvest.
KScurmudgeon
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195. At 05:30am on 15 Jul 2009, David_Cunard wrote
"you have a very long wait, so long that you, your children, their children and their children's children will not see it in their lifetime"
I wouldn't be too sure of that. Have you forgotten he claims to have Roumanian ancestry? See 193/194 above. Explains his general bloodthirstiness.
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194. whoswallowedthefly:
Ah yes. Long posts, no paragraphs or bullet points. Sounds cross all the time. Makes sense.
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199, sq, there must be a drug for that.
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These haters turn up everywhere. What do they know!
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191. At 03:58am on 15 Jul 2009, youngasterix wrote:
Re: 140. Apostle
That was a interesting post and more meaningful than most.
Much of the U.S. is firmly at anchor and absorbs the rubbish that surrounds them and is fed to them.
A former US VP swayed the world with faux science (predrawn conclusion, and dismiss observations that are to the contrary) so he could sell carbon credits.
The current POTUS has never made a payroll in his life. "
I think you will find US senators are paid. In fact I am certain that they are.
And I really wouldn't talk about faux science if I was a supporter of the last POTUS, who did not even seem to know what science actually was.
Along with foreign affairs, economics, launguages and disaster control science was not his strong suit.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
203. At 10:45am on 15 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
Not that it will stop her from being confirmed, but Sotomayor was exposed as a fraud, politically biased and a limited intellect, when she got any real questions."
Your views on Justice Sotomayer were completely predictable and were formed as soon as you looked at her.
"I hope this will encourage President Obama to pick a judge who uses the law not her feelings on his next nomination to the Supreme Court"
No one suggested by Presidnet Obama is ever going to be acceptable to you.
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203. At 10:45am on 15 Jul 2009, MagicKirin
A fine example of "being a white man, thats normal. Everybody else has biases and prejudices."
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201. At 06:50am on 15 Jul 2009, seanspa
I've just caught up on that.
How many have been villified, attacked and abused, for not simply suggesting that, but daring to even think it? Here and elsewhere. And no doubt will be here again soon when the machine is cranked up and gets going.
I doubt if I shall be reading many apologies.
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I thought that Justins comments were affectionate of America and generally have been.
Most europeans would regard him as pro american. Americans seem overly concerned that non US citizens be uncritically pro american and that does not happen. What americans fail time and again to grasp is that pro americanism is the default position politically. After all who would you most like to have as a partner Obama or Putin - no contest. The US or Totalitarian China - no contest and on and on .....
Socially however pro americanism is not the default position in Europe and never will be - europeans in general do not aspire to be americans.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
ref #204
Simon21 wrote:
203. At 10:45am on 15 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
Not that it will stop her from being confirmed, but Sotomayor was exposed as a fraud, politically biased and a limited intellect, when she got any real questions."
Your views on Justice Sotomayer were completely predictable and were formed as soon as you looked at her.
(Unlike you and her, I look at an individual's merits, I was against both Obama and Edwards for their lack of qualifications)
"I hope this will encourage President Obama to pick a judge who uses the law not her feelings on his next nomination to the Supreme Court"
No one suggested by Presidnet Obama is ever going to be acceptable to you.
(Probaly true because I believe Empathy goes against the functions and duties of a judge. )
BTW were you one the one who refered my comment to the moderators?
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# 198 squirrelist wrote: [of MAII]
"Have you forgotten he claims to have Roumanian ancestry? See 193/194 above. Explains his general bloodthirstiness."
May I just say that I consider this an appalling slur.
On the Undead, the Children Of The Night, and Vampires in general.
I haven't seen that many of the more recent films and TV shows, but, as I recall, Bela Lugosi always played the Big D as a perfect gentleman - when he wasn't introducing his fangs to your jugular of course. 'Velcomm to Castle Drac-ula', and all that.
Mind you, his arch enemies did tend to be British - Peter Cushing, Sir Anthony Hopkins etc. And then there were those mobs of peasants forever storming the castle [or is that Frankenstein]. I suppose that might be enough to instil a blind, unreasoning hatred of Europeans in general and Brits in particular....
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# 211 Macho Autisticus II
In among the endless rant, Volume 4,937, I think MA II is actually lecturing us on ....manners. Politeness. Etiquette. Not abusing your hosts.
This from the person who intrudes on a European, and specifically British, website to launch an unending stream of personalised anti-European, and specifically anti-British, vitriol.
Mr Pot. Meet Marcus Kettolius the Second.....
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For the curmudgeon;
The Land Institute
Give my regards to Wes Jackson
and further sources
Are hefty with fleece, and women bear children
Who look like their parents. In short, they thrive
On all the good things life has to offer, and they
Never travel on ships. The soil's their whole life.
On Justice
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Good grief, another long MA rant. Fore!
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@15 (StD):"The first thing we must do is put an end to the influence of special interests in American politics, but that is easier said than done. The campaign donations made by corporations and influential political and social groups come with strings attached, and our politicians are well aware of that when they accept their money. Unfortunately, voting all the rascals out will simply pave the way for new rascals to move in, and the cycle of corruption and inefficiency will continue indefinitely."
StD, that's only true until those interests conclude that the ROI on that particular investment is no longer worth the investment. If Representatives were by and large thrown out after one term, and Senators were done the same, in about 12 years I believe the "interests" would conclude for the most part that their ROI from political contributions was no longer sufficient, and that they had better find some other way to manipulate the government. That would create a relatively narrow window of opportunity to make some corrections. You are correct, however, in that getting Americans to vote their representatives out of office is much, much harder than it ought to be.
@13 (H):"We need enforceable laws limiting campaign expenditure and contributions, including strict and enforceable controls on PACs, and their ilk. It's a big ask, I know, but without such reform electoral "democracy" is a bad joke."
H, I think that public funding of campaigns, and limiting their duration to about 6 weeks, is probably the ticket. The two parties would scream about their traditions being violated...so cue the sobbing violins and line the two parties and their partisans up in front of some microphones or similar, and tell them to scream loud enough to produce renewable energy (grin)...
@50 (StD): "...I have a different take on what the real challenge is going to be for future generations and governments. In my opinion, the biggest challenge involves the need to support a growing population in an era where automation and high technology limits the need for human intervention...and employment!
The problem is further complicated by a substandard education system and our high dropout rate, which will prevent a large segment of our population from pursuing and qualifying for the limited number of high tech jobs available, getting involved in R&D, or pursuing jobs in sectors such as healthcare, which are likely to remain labor intensive but require higher education and specialization."
Oh, how right you are, StD! Somehow we have to face the implacable pressure of automation on jobs, and begin rebuilding our education system (which has suffered from 40+ years of being at the Forward Edge of Battle Area in the undeclared Cold Civil War we have been fighting over here) to retrain our entire population. These two areas are both critical beyond belief, but our partisans would rather be "right" than fix the problems. Even the Klingons understood better (as quoted by Kang, "...Only a fool fights in a burning house...").
@83 (KsC) "Why be downcast, as if the opportunities, freedoms, and beauties all lie behind us? We have in this generation inherited the responsibility, i.e. power, that we have always sought."
KsC, Overall I agree with this. The awfulest condition a person can be in is to believe there's no hope, because when they believe that, then for them there IS no hope. When hope is dead, physical death becomes a relief, but all the benefits that that person might have brought to others known and unknown becomes lost for all time. That's truly an unspeakable tragedy, if you have any belief that individuals are worth anything. It's even more awful if you believe (as I do) that God has put each of us here for His reasons, and that He has a plan for us, and things for us to do and be.
The only thing I will quibble with is your last sentence. I don't think that my generation (I'm 54) has been particularly good at accepting and executing responsibility or self-discipline, but they have certainly sought power. That imbalance is, in my opinion, one of the principal roots of many of our difficulties, and reflects the overall immaturity we have brought to the table far too often. But, to return to what you said, as long as life still exists here, there's still hope, and that even includes hope that we will see a rebirth of true humility, and an irresistable commitment to being disciplined and responsible. With those things, I truly believe we will begin to find answers not only to the pressing problems around us but to the ones we haven't even recognized yet.
Regards to all.
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Sean's Pa (201),
- "These haters turn up everywhere. What do they know!"
But they are too involved, people living in the US are far more objective.Pax
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Remarkable how many Europeans have made remarks about my ancestry, the countries and cultures my grandparents came from or more accurately escaped from. And there are other European countries in my ancestry I haven't mentioned. And you people have the temerity to call me a bigot? That I am an individual who has nothing in common with those cultures and do not consider them in any way having influenced my views in life or my actions may have escaped you. Your habitual hypocricy however has not escaped me.
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209. At 12:46pm on 15 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
"(Unlike you and her, I look at an individual's merits, I was against both Obama and Edwards for their lack of qualifications)2
But not nice white Palin!
Sototmayer, like the Palestinians is the "wrong" sort of human being for you.
Game set and match
"(Probaly true because I believe Empathy goes against the functions and duties of a judge. )"
This is so ridiculous as to need reporting "empathy goes against the functions and duties of a judge"
Do you mean that comment seriously - Dershovitz would be disaapointed with you.
No empathy eh? Is it possible to be a human being without empathy?
Have you ever found one?
Please let us know.
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208. At 12:12pm on 15 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Brits have demonstrated themselves to be the worlds number one boors as evidenced for example by BBC political boor in chief Nick Robinson who had the temerity to insult and abuse the privilege of being invited to attend a White House press conference in the rose garden and to ask the President of the United States a question.
Asking the President of the US a question at a press conference! How impertinent!!!
Sorry now I know you are a fraud. Plainly this is the moderators having a joke. No one could so unwittingly farcical.
The BBC obviously wants to spice up its blogs by occasionally composing ridiculous rants.
It could be I suppose (as I one thought) that this individual only posts when he has enjoyed considerable liquid hospitality.
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Ref 209, Magic
"(Unlike you and her, I look at an individual's merits, I was against both Obama and Edwards for their lack of qualifications)"
If the Senate - and the American people - focus strictly on her qualifications, related performance, and merit she would be confirmed by the largest majority in the history of the USA! Unfortunately, what is at stake is not her education, talent, and professional record, but her ideology which some senators see as an impediment to the dismantling of affirmative action and overturning Roe V Wade.
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I think what America really is that each generation tries to fix mistakes from the previous generation.Baby Boomers have been on social morality mode.As far as civil rights it has been good,however they have been too generous with giving away technology,employment,military assistance,and food and monetary aid.The younger generations X and Millennials are tired of the We are the World business.It's not that we are heartless but we don't see results for these programs.Baby Boomers tried to fix the Capitalism of their parents and got taken advantage of.As more X's take to political power you are going to see less spending both foreign and domestic.Pay as you Go will become the norm and less trying to bribe people into peace with their neighboring countries with Americans trying to supply our needs and wants for ourselves.Politicians everyday are becoming more accountable for actions and decisions because we are getting older now And technology makes it quick that they answer for decisions.I only warn that Baby Boomers better vote for universal health care because if they deny their children and grand children than we will be forced to do they same with S.S. and Medicaid in years to come.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
You and your Igor (he is Very loyal isn't he) have spent a lot of energy trying to say there are no races.No one gets victimised. There is no racism, while complaining of being victimised for your race.
In you case a pale skinned Vamp and in the others' just pale skin.Don't worry about the vamp bit, there are many shows on at the moment trying to crush that undeserved reputation that was created by that errant Irish writer always stoking things up. They show the future where artificial blood is the way to go legit and not worry about rivers, herbs and the red stuff.I am sure that along with all the other prejudices that fell by the wayside in creating the sheer racial bliss that is the USA today, the land of the equally free will see the need to let you all out of the dark.
My sincerest best wishes that you have the joy of seeing the light of day.
Speaking of which, nice weather isn't it.
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Arclightt,
- "I think that public funding of campaigns, and limiting their duration to about 6 weeks, is probably the ticket."
Why on Earth should the public fund it? (beyond the organisation and conduct of the voting process) But ingeneral, we are in agreement.It is hard to have hope
It is harder as you grow old
For hope does not depend on feeling good
And there is the dream of loneliness at absolute midnight
You also have withdrawn the leaf and the present reality of the future
But surely will surprise us
And hope is harder when it cannot come by prediction any more than wishing
But stop dithering
The young ask the old to hope
What do you tell them?
Tell them at least what you say to yourself
Because we have not made our lives to fit our places,
The forests are ruined
The fields eroded
The streams polluted
The mountains overturnedWendell Berry
Pax
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really?
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United States arrogance to pull the world in the right(ish) direction rightly deserves sharp examination. From what well springs this presumption. From what higher authority endowed the American government with divine wisdom to act on behalf of others. And for what objective; proliferation of democracy (code for military expansion), free markets (code for one sided trade), quelling of violent conflicts (code for political intervention), world peace and tranquility (code for western dominance), none of which justifies the trampling or manipulating of sovereignties as U.S. history regularly exemplifies. Three cheers? Perhaps three criticisms with a stiff pint of beer.
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# 216 MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Remarkable how many Europeans have made remarks about my ancestry, the countries and cultures my grandparents came from or more accurately escaped from. And there are other European countries in my ancestry I haven't mentioned. And you people have the temerity to call me a bigot? That I am an individual who has nothing in common with those cultures and do not consider them in any way having influenced my views in life or my actions may have escaped you."
Translation: "I haven't feasted on the blood of the Living for AGES...."
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Haloed Dom;
What is in question is not her ideology but her apparent prejudice as evidenced in some of her public statements. In testimony before Congress yesterday, she disavowed those statements and their implications to the satisfaction of many conservatives. She pointed to her record on the court as not evidincing those prejudices in her decisions. I'm sure that will come under scrutiny but short of an unexpeted gaff in her subsequent testimony, it seems clear even to many conservatives that her nomination will be approved, probably by a significant majority including many Republicans. I think all reasonable people accept that any individual will bring their own life experience to a job even if they are not as indiscreet as she's been about saying so in public.
fayeth, what the American people need to demand of their government is to get them to ask the people of Europe and East Asia if they want the enforced pax Americana they've enjoyed since the end of World War II to remain and if they do, then they should be told that they should be expected to pay for much or all of it. If they don't, we should begin withdrawing it. There is no reason why American taxpayers should continue to have to pay for keeping these people from each others throats.
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# 216 MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"And you people have the temerity to call me a bigot?"
I don't think I called MAII a bigot.
Someone consumed with a blind, unreasoning hatred for Europe and all Europeans, most foreigners in general, and probably any Yanks to the left of Dick Cheney - maybe.
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216. At 2:05pm on 15 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Remarkable how many Europeans have made remarks about my ancestry, the countries and cultures my grandparents came from or more accurately escaped from. And there are other European countries in my ancestry I haven't mentioned. And you people have the temerity to call me a bigot? That I am an individual who has nothing in common with those cultures and do not consider them in any way having influenced my views in life or my actions may have escaped you. Your habitual hypocricy however has not escaped me."
it is sad you take such a view of your family. It must have caused them great pain when you were growing up.
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221. At 2:57pm on 15 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Asking the President of the US a question at a press conference! How impertinent!!!"
NO Simple Simian, lecturing to the President of the United States, now that is impertinent...especially coming from a half witted dolt who evidently gets drunk at a bar in London, shoots his mouth off."
Sorry I think the liquids are getting in your way this makes no sense. The words were yours.
You need to keep a consistent thought in your head for at least the length of the posting.
But as I say no one could be this ridiculous so the moderators have obviously got bored again.
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Simple Simian, I viewed my family as individuals to be loved for who and what they were, not where they came from. In fact I view my grandparents as courageous and intelligent to have seen the futility of trying to make a decent life for themselves in Europe and at the earliest possible age to have left forever never looking back but only forward at the rich successful lives they made for themselves and the possibilities they created for me by going to live in the United States. Countless tens of millions of people around the world came to the same conclusions for exactly the same reasons and did the same. That is how America gets and keeps the best people in the world, the ones other nations have written of as worthless, discarded, sneered at, and even killed en masse.
I suppose most people would consider it unfair that the sins of the fathers are visited upon their children, grandchildren, and down through the generations but if there is any truth to the accusations against Europeans I have made, the legacy of its dark history, the perfect storm that is landing on them now seems justice in almost a biblical sense. A fascinating time in history to be alive and to have an opportunity to observe.
BTW, did you take note that in riots in France the other night over three hundred cars were burned presumably by North Africans reminding France yet again of its crimes against their humanity?
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The Emperor's delusions are serious
Rants impotent intending injurious
So I'll just ignore
The works by that bore
His highness* Marcus Aurelius.
*In the sense of meat left too long, and fit only for vultures
"Let us praise the noble turkey vulture: No one envies him; he harms nobody; and he contemplates our little world from a most serene and noble height."
-- Ed Abbey
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ref #219
saintDominick wrote:
Ref 209, Magic
"(Unlike you and her, I look at an individual's merits, I was against both Obama and Edwards for their lack of qualifications)"
If the Senate - and the American people - focus strictly on her qualifications, related performance, and merit she would be confirmed by the largest majority in the history of the USA! Unfortunately, what is at stake is not her education, talent, and professional record, but her ideology which some senators see as an impediment to the dismantling of affirmative action and overturning Roe V Wade.
Unless to use Lindsay Graham's word she has a melt down she will be confirmed. I have acknowledged that but her judicial philosphy has to be considered. Robert Bork was qualified but the liberal hyena helped block his confirmation. President Obama voted against Roberts even though he admitted he was qualified.
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"BTW, I'm 1/4 Roumanian myself. That includes the part with the fangs. You should see where I sleep most days"
Quote from Marcus, Should he be surprised that anyone would joke about it? It was him that introduced the nationalistic slur of vampirism.
UKwales will tell you the truth that there are no vampires in Romania . Fed up with running from garlic eating stake lovers and their British vampire hunters let loose like a pack of harry potter fans ,they moved to a place they though had never heard of garlic. Some high desert areas caught their attention.
Unfortunately the nearest town was taken over by rich fine dining wine snobs who not only made their wine tastes look uneducated but also brought GARLIC with them..AHHHHHHH
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Quillan 225,
Well said. Mine's a pint of Liffey Water!
Slainte!
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Doubled over in Dublin;
"Someone consumed with a blind, unreasoning hatred for Europe and all Europeans...."
Neither blind nor unreasoned. In fact I have repeatedly given a long litany of reasons based on both historical facts and personal observations.
How is it that one person could take on all of Europe in a debate and generate so much reaction? Is it a fair fight? Of course it isn't. Armed with facts of history and knowledge of European mentalities and cultures, any American could easily beat an army of Europeans with nothing but their prejudices and stereotypes about themselves and America to rely on in any debate comparing their civilizations. Sometimes it just seems too easy.
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Simon21,
"Sorry now I know you are a fraud. Plainly this is the moderators having a joke. No one could so unwittingly farcical.
The BBC obviously wants to spice up its blogs by occasionally composing ridiculous rants."
On this we agree. But, it's really a quite sophisticated anti-American rant;
It could be the BBC, but it could be from somewhere else.
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231. At 3:57pm on 15 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Simple Simian, I viewed my family as individuals to be loved for who and what they were, not where they came from."
Oh so you despised their heritage and their family but "loved" them?
That makes sense to you?
As I say they must have been pained that you felt so little for their past and ancestors.
Wasn't there a native American (not your favourite people I know - you do not seem to like many Americans) leader who once said that a man who did not care for his fathers (ancestors) or their land and was worse than a wild animal?
" In fact I view my grandparents as courageous and intelligent to have seen the futility of trying to make a decent life for themselves in Europe and at the earliest possible age to have left forever never looking back but only forward at the rich successful lives they made for themselves and the possibilities they created for me by going to live in the United States."
So their fathers were fools and idiots wre they?
See above.
My ancestors were also forced to immigrate (to the US among other places) but they did not indulge in an orgy of self-hatred concerning their origins (they left that to rascist bigots they encountered). They were in fact proud of them.
That is the normal response I beleive having lived in various immigrant societies.
"Countless tens of millions of people around the world came to the same conclusions for exactly the same reasons and did the same. That is how America gets and keeps the best people in the world,"
Are you sure it got you?
And forgive me where do they hold teh most vociferous St Pats day celebrations?
Go along and tell the celebrants how much they should hate Ireland for being a key european country.
Perhaps you could call for another famine?
Tell the celebrants of a Burns night how much you hate Scotland for being "european".
I think these Americans would give you a very robust response.
We already know Black and native Americans are not in your good books.
You see this is why I beleive you are a BBC moderator - you obviously know nothing about the US.
"I suppose most people would consider it unfair that the sins of the fathers are visited upon their children, grandchildren, and down through the generations but if there is any truth to the accusations against Europeans I have made, the legacy of its dark history, the perfect storm that is landing on them now seems justice in almost a biblical sense. A fascinating time in history to be alive and to have an opportunity to observe."
This includes European jews, of course. Forgive me but you seem to be saying you approve of the 1939-45 genocide because it wiped out many Europeans.
Is this correct - or are we dealing with the liquid lunch again.
"BTW, did you take note that in riots in France the other night over three hundred cars were burned presumably by North Africans reminding France yet again of its crimes against their humanity? "
Well we know you have a "problem" with "Africans". You may not be aware but you have an afro-American in the Whitehouse (and not in the servants quarters).
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"Neither blind nor unreasoned."
Destined to go blind, though, as well as hairy
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QS, I think you have come to the right conclusions for the wrong reasons.
"United States arrogance to pull the world in the right(ish) direction rightly deserves sharp examination. From what well springs this presumption. From what higher authority endowed the American government with divine wisdom to act on behalf of others. And for what objective; proliferation of democracy (code for military expansion), free markets (code for one sided trade), quelling of violent conflicts (code for political intervention), world peace and tranquility (code for western dominance), none of which justifies the trampling or manipulating of sovereignties as U.S. history regularly exemplifies."
Yes it was arrogant to presume to dictate and codify even in colaboration with other nations what the US presumed to be universal values and goals of humanity including freedom, equal rights, peace, prosperity, justice by embodying them in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that is part of the Charter of the United Nations. As with most naive such efforts, they were trampled on around the world even before the ink was even dry and every day ever since. In many places it is not wanted, is rejected, even resented. What is more, this effort has been largely at the expense of American taxpayers and workers. At this point the effort should come to an end as the American taxpayers' pocketbooks are now empty. Who is the American government anyway to abrogate the sovereignty of the American people over their own destiny with powers it is not granted.
As an avowed isolationist who feels the United States was far better off before it got involved in the world's sordid affairs early in the 20th century, not only should the US withdraw its military forces from Europe, East Asia, and other potential trouble spots but it should also withdraw from most other treaties including those involving trade. What were once large American corporations have become international, not multinational corporations. For example, GE has 59% of its assets outside the United States. They should be forced to choose between being American corporations whose allegience, investments, and benefits are restricted to the United States or non American corporations who will be at a decided competitive disadvantage when doing business in the United States. These corporations have for their own self interests trasferred vast amounts of technology developed and paid for by American taxpayers through funding of government laboratories, universities, and investment tax credits to foreign countries along with jobs and other benefits these investments accrued at American expense. I'm hoping that President Obama's decision to tax the foreign profits of American based corporations for the first time in a very long time is the first step in forcing that ultimate decision. In this way, Americans can take back what is rightfully theirs alone.
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Each daybreak he rose like a jerk
Saying "I am rising for a man's work"
Whilst I every night
Rise firmly upright
For a far more enjoyable perk.
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236:"armed with facts of history and knowledge of European mentalities and cultures"
As befits a true American patriot (?) from here at a guess. when he's not reading The Daily Vampire or Transfusion Weekly.
Someone who likes "Politics, Religion and any other subject that gets people thinking and debating. (Rationally)".
Marcus, put a lid on it.
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swallowedhooklineandsinker
As I recall from the book, Count Dracula moved from Roumania to England where his coffin was relocated to the basement of Carfax Abbey. The only good wine there came from France while good food...well Brits had a well deserved reputation for destroying the flavor of anything edible before it reached their mouths. Ever see the TV cooking show with those two big fat old English sisters with their huge cauldrons boiling away behind them? I don't know if they were boiling the life out of their beef and potatoes or their laundry.
Simple Simian, it may surprise you to know that my grandparents didn't disown or abandon their siblings and parents...they saved money and brought all of them over here to America too. And they were only too happy to come. They also rejected the European societies they were born into but didn't have the wherewithall to escape on their own. It can't be an easy decision to make especially since for many of them, there was no going back. Even the trip over was an ordeal in steerage in the hold of a ship with barely an hour of fresh air a day for the five day crossing. Ellis Island is now a national monument to the millions of people who did the same entering through that gateway to their future lives in America. I don't consider the rest of your jibberish worthy of a reply.
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"It could be the BBC, but it could be from somewhere else."
- Guns, I think you might be right. I detect a certain something in the tone of his posts.
I believe his name is a code, too. If you'll forgive the Dan Brown moment...
Marcus Aurelius was a Stoic, a man much concerned with being a good man, and doing the right thing. A stoic would never be offended by the actions of another, and MA2 does appear to be quite the reverse of this policy. Reversing the initials MA gives us AM. 2 would indicate a sequel, and since the quality of MA2's posts has a certain "Rorschach's Journal" quality to them, I would suggest that MA2 is in fact Alan Moore, noted wizard and writer of comics! Moore's predeliction for clever satire is well known and it would be a jape well in line with the habits of that other famous satitrist Peter Cook for Moore to spoof the BBC and dozens of readers from both sides of the Atlantic.
So, Marcus...when are you doing a sequel to Watchmen, then?
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Personally, I prefer curly fries with my garlic and steaks.
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Heph dear,
Marcus wore the philosopher's crown
Justification for putting us down
His unusual notion
Is we're a drop in the ocean
An idea upon which I frown
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"These corporations have for their own self interests trasferred vast amounts of technology developed and paid for by American taxpayers through funding of government laboratories, universities, and investment tax credits to foreign countries along with jobs and other benefits these investments accrued at American expense."
- it's called Capitalism. You know what the alternatives are. You don't like them.
To paraphrase a Gaming comment from other forums - "It's fine. Learn to play."
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221. At 2:57pm on 15 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII
It appears that you are relying on both a BBC employee generally not responding directly to what is clearly intended as personal abuse, or the BBC being unwilling to apply the provisions of the House Rules for fear of being accused of 'censorship.' Very Jesuitical. But very transparent, and far from endearing.
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I know, I shouldn't feed the troll, but here goes anyway....
# 236 MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"Doubled over in Dublin"
Firstly, congratulations on that hilarious description you've come up with. Surprised you failed to combine it with yet another tedious and prejudiced reference to stereotypes of drinking, pubs and Guinness, but we live in hope. Yet more conclusive proof that we can puny humans never match the lightning wit of The Master Race.
Or to quote the broadcaster Clive Anderson, addressing Jeffrey Archer, 'Is there no beginning to your talent?'
"In fact I have repeatedly given a long litany of reasons based on both historical facts and personal observations."
The only accurate part of this is 'long litany'. Interminable and unreadable would be more accurate. And you don't support your prejudice by argument. You acquired your prejudices and then churn out endless stereotypes to excuse them.
"How is it that one person could take on all of Europe in a debate and generate so much reaction?"
Truly, is there no end to your megalomania? You seriously think c 750m Europeans are glued to their monitors, avidly awaiting the latest bulletin from your cave?
"Armed with facts of history and knowledge of European mentalities and cultures, any American could easily beat an army of Europeans with nothing but their prejudices and stereotypes about themselves and America to rely on in any debate comparing their civilizations.Sometimes it just seems too easy."
Firstly, congratulations on your resounding victory - even if it only exists in your imagination.
But surely even you can comprehend the ludicrous paradox and inherent contradiction of constantly whining about Europeans being so prejudiced - every single one of them - all three quarters of a billion.
I'll try to spell it out slowly for you. That's pre-ju-dice. And stereo-types.
While I'm the last person to compare the US to the Third Reich, your relentless hollow protestations of the absolute superiority of the USA in every field and the inferiority of the doomed Untervolk of Europe is reminiscent of nothing so much as the little paper hanger and his Empire that would last a thousand years. [You remember him? He's the one who was defeated in WW2 by the US entirely on their own, and without any help from anyone else at all. It must be true - I saw it in a film...]
And please don't delude yourself that, because some people here - including a number of Americans - occasionally waste their time responding to and disagreeing with you, it proves you have won any argument. It just proves your troll-like talent to annoy. A baboon flinging dung at my house will annoy me - that doesn't mean it's a great debater.
Sadly, the fundamental point you can't grasp is, most Europeans don't hate Americans because most Americans are like you.
Most Europeans like Americans because most Americans are open-hearted, generous and welcoming - ie NOT like you - thank God.
PS And watch out for those crucifixes - they can give you a nasty burn.....
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Dear old Marcus Aurelius the Second
Had less than half the wit that he reckoned
He tediously rants
With his hand in his pants
As everyone's scroll key beckones
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229. At 3:43pm on 15 Jul 2009, Simon21 wrote:
216. At 2:05pm on 15 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote: Remarkable how many Europeans have made remarks about my ancestry.
"In the dark all cats are grey".
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Dark.. (#244), that's an interesting theory. Your remark about MA2 being the reverse of a Stoic certainly seems true:
"It is an ascetic system, teaching perfect indifference (apathea) to everything external, for nothing external could be either good or evil." from: Stoicism
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Sitting very annoyed here that many of you are talking about cousin Grizelda's boy.
He was always a lovely child but it is you europeans that changed him. If only your little countries did not have so many strange rules and regulations.
Our 'See all of europe"in 15 days trip started badly. Why couldn't he have been offered the front seat next to the tour guide? Did she have to spend all the time hogging two seats talking and flirting with the driver. He never trusted any woman after that.
We made stops for food. Nobody cooked it properly. We soon learned to say bian kweet to hide the visible blood on it, and when it was well done -always covered in pepper, salt, garlic and who knows what.
Being a lover of US kiddies TV shows imagine Mark's joy at seeing old Munster's best on the menu. When it arrived we discovered Munster from-age just means a village cheese. Don't you foreigners know any better American english to avoid confusions here? And childrens comics- some Tinto character with a dog chasing crooks who always seemed to be American. Anti-American propaganda indoctorating innocent childen. Your stand up toilets were confusing for all and the beedays are so stupidly placed for getting a drink of water. Unhygenic foreign apparatus compare with what we are used to here.
Belgium went by where we hated the beer, Germany and Austria he was sick with the sausages. Switzerland he could not sleep from the annoying cow bells ringing, and Italy the pizza and salads were covered in oil. On the way back through Lichtenstyne having saved his foreign money, none of your expensive jewelery shops in the 1960s sold Mickey Mouse watches, and he had his heart so set on buying one. He started drinking the wine then, and it was his only pleasant experience obtained.
To finish it all, his visa to enter the UK was not in order, and some french official kept muttering about him going into quarantine- a special hotel just for him we thought. Forget it we said. We travel as a family together or not at all.
We were so happy when the PanAm flight departed to go back to America. We promised never to go back there and we never did. 15 days was 15 days too many and we felt we had seen it all.
So you tell them about what is wrong with them Chuck, knowing all about it, and how great our USA is. Foreigners!
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240, MAII, you are on a roll today, aren't you MAII, or whatever you are.
No, America cannot exist solely by itself. We are all citizens of the planet.
Ideas swirl around until someone picks them up.
If GE is involved in helping build useful things around the world, good for them!
Your protectionist rant is typical of someone who cannot find something useful
to do. I suggest that you get off your backside and find something productive
to do.
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I have one more observation. The quality of the "original" poetry posted on this board is uniformly execrable...except for my own of course which included my fist attempt at rap music lyrics a few weeks ago. That was outstanding.
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To Mark, in honor of his love for humanity:
He seems an admirable man
Though I'm not really a fan
His well-meant advice
Doesn't strike me as nice
And I avoid it whenever I can
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Gary you have business to attend to.
answer this. why do you remove others posts and then try to pretend you were making a point when you make your post.
457. At 05:12am on 15 Jul 2009, whoswallowedthefly wrote:
"444. At 10:28pm on 13 Jul 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:
MarcusAureliusII (#409) "Nobody knows for sure why the Mayans died out."
The Maya did not "die out." The Mayan civilization collapsed. The people themselves survive to this day.
http://anthropology.si.edu/maya/presentpage1.html"
421 "Marcus they did not become extinct. The culture that failed them did though.
Bring on Gary"
Though the BBC purges all records, the original poster has decided to mirror his posts here and left them where we could all see them. If you know where to look.
He claims this is not the first time you have done this and suggests you maybe jealous.
Come on . try to be graceful.try to answer a direct question without referring it to the moderators. they already allow racist comments like the one posted on the other thread so why would they stop those post that contain no offensive words.
come on lets see how you think you can hold your head up high.?
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English-language sources still used the terms "Rumania" or "Roumania", borrowed from the French spelling "Roumanie", as recently as World War II,[14] but since then those terms have largely been replaced with the official[15] spelling "Romania".
Because they are not as culturally sensitive as they like to think. You would think after all the years of oppression he would have learnt to spell his much maligned countries name.
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now I'm looking for a spider.
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243. At 5:00pm on 15 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Simple Simian, it may surprise you to know that my grandparents didn't disown or abandon their siblings and parents...
No I bet they didn't. You are the one who thinks they were stupid "Europeans". I bet they didn't think all their european relatives were lesser human beings.
Learn from them
"they saved money and brought all of them over here to America too. And they were only too happy to come. They also rejected the European societies they were born into but didn't have the wherewithall to escape on their own."
What they rejected the religion, the language, the graves of their families? They "rejected2 all this.
I bet they didn't, as I say that's your hang up.
My family ancestors dissapeared in a catastrophe but their descendants allover the world didn't think this meant they were stupid.
"It can't be an easy decision to make especially since for many of them, there was no going back."
Oh but I thought you said they hated their own heritage, easy descision surely.
Again you make little sense. You are the one with the problem.
" Even the trip over was an ordeal in steerage in the hold of a ship with barely an hour of fresh air a day for the five day crossing. Ellis Island is now a national monument to the millions of people who did the same entering through that gateway to their future lives in America."
Thanks for that .
And if you go to Massachusetts, Boston you will see some of the signs that greeted my ancestors when they went seeking work. The phrase "...need not apply" was widely used
They were not welcoming.
You will also see many docs remarkably like your own views about the "infestation" of immigrants. But they were written in the 1840s
But all this did not prevent them from venerating their afflicted European homeland and those they left buried there.
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#145
Squirrel,
To be fair, Marcus wasn't alive then. If you put together his life story you will discover he lived and worked in France in the 70's. And he doesn't know how to identify an AK47, the predominant weapon used by the Viet Cong. From which it is easy to deduce he is either:
a) French. The obsession with cheese and knock off wines favors this
b) A draft dodger. The Dick Cheney attitude seems to favor that
Either way he's a wannabe veteran who needs to take credit for the actions of others in fighting our wars.
How sad?
Sad Sam
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Thinking of Romania it was the only eastern european country with a golf course at one stage.
any comment ?
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I wonder if MA likes american cars because they go putt, putt, putt? But does his horn play colonel bogey?
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IS MA 'contributing' to this thread because he misread the title? It's three cheers, not three cheeses!
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Golf? Isn't that played by men wearing ghastly checkered trousers and white socks?
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Justin, you are the North American editor, but you write as though you are a yank. No other country in America (it's a continent, not a country) refers to the US as America. In many American countries, the people are not even refered to as Americans. Brazil for example, calls them North Americans.
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After fighting for representation and winning the right to represent ourselves a few centuries ago, I think most American's realize that they don't have the perfect government, nor the perfect people governing, nor the perfect people responding in an adult manner. It is to be noted though, that as a country, American's aren't weak about standing up for freedom for anyone who wants it, and for not tolerating abusive sadistic governments whose treatment of their citizen's (let alone any other countries citizens) make any of the civilian casualties attributed to American fighting (which happen in any war no matter how hard you try not to have those casualties) look miniscule. However, I would still rather have our soldiers go to Iraq than not. Sadam would have only gotten worse. The Talaban was dealt a large blow. Too bad it didn't end such extremeism. American Mercenaries? I'm afraid the only people I know of in Iraq is soldiers who enlisted to serve. While I'm not naive to think ,ercenaries do not exist, our service isn't drafted or as in much older days, impressed into service, the people volunteered to join. I wish more countries, more people.... work together as England, Canada and the USA have, to fight for human freedom and remember that no matter the country we live in, we are all of the human race and to ignore human suffering, persecution and abuses is a crime to me, and most Americans in and of itself. I am very proud to be an American, and proud also that our histories are entertwined--- that all three of our countries values proper human treatment and basic human needs. We have overcome our pasts to work together for a brighter future and betterment of the human race. And that's something to be proud of!
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#265
Canny,
Nope. Judging by the advertisements for ED medication on the Golf channel and in Golfist magzines it is played by impotent men wearing ghastly checkered trousers and white socks.
Golfist Sam - NOT
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Game still on for saturday as usual Sam.
Will you be using the driver again or just the irons- You devil.
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#243. MarcusAureliusII: "I don't consider the rest of your jibberish worthy of a reply."
If only we all took that to heart with regard to your own posts, which are too frequent, ill-spelt and, with regard to your betes noires, badly informed.
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267. At 7:04pm on 15 Jul 2009, humanthenamerican
Kindly meant no doubt. But please, 'England' is not synonymous with 'Britain'. It's is only one of four countries. The Act of Union between England (and Wales) and Scotland was 1707. .
(You'd think after 300 years. . .).
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# 261 SamTyler1969 wrote: [of MAII]
"From which it is easy to deduce he is either:
a) French. The obsession with cheese and knock off wines favors this
b) A draft dodger. The Dick Cheney attitude seems to favor that"
I disagree. It's not either - it's both.
So let's see. He's French. He's cheese-eating. Cowardly - the type who's to quick to wave others off to fight, but would be quick to surrender if ever in harm's way. And of course, he's a cheeky little monkey.
I think you see where I'm going with this.....
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261. At 6:36pm on 15 Jul 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:
"Either way he's a wannabe veteran"
And a wannabee rap artist. Funny, I thought of him more as a . . .as a . . .as a . . . .er, as a different kind of artist altogether. (One has to mind one's p's and q's here. these days.)
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268, Sam -
Thank you for your clarification to #265. I feel sure canny would have added that little detail if he/she were someone who watched TV at all.
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273.
This is A Public Service Announcement on behalf of the Society for the Preservation of Ignorant Vampires .
Anyone who wishes to follow the emperor's burgeoning career as a rot artist and seek a new transfusion can do so on: Mark Mardell's Euroblog; Will and Testament (William Crawley's blog); Stephanomics; World Tonight (Robin Lustig).
[Cough] I beg your pardon, that should of course have been 'rap artist'.
[Hacking Cough.] I am so very sorry, that should be the 'Society for the Preservation of Immigrant Vampires . . .
[Aside] It really is about time we got better screens at the BBC . . .
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Well Justin, I think what you cite might becoming a bit out of date.
8 years after 9/11, STILL a building site, after many years as holes in the ground.
The America that went from a 15 minutes semi space flight to man of the Moon in 8 years, would have had replacement buildings, better than before, up within a couple of years.
When I was in NY in Sept and Nov 2002, there were posters up advocating copies of the original towers, just built with modern methods and aware of the lessons of the ones that fell, in regard to internal layout, fire protection, but also just that bit taller than the originals.
They quoted FDR, 'we have nothing to fear but fear itself'. Quite right too.
This is a bigger PR plus to the terrorists than Bin Laden's continued existence is.
The America that would go in after a major disaster, like an Earthquake or similar, have it all back up and running faster than anyone else, then look at Hurricane Katrina's aftermath.
My god.
The cheerleaders for Bush can zip it too, no BS they spout, no excuses about how bad the local government in New Orleans was, the fact remains that the appalling aftermath happened despite having the resources of a superpower.
(Then again, who ran FEMA? Oh yes, some old buddy of Bush who have previously been involved with Arabic horse competitions).
You mention Iraq, aside from the rights and wrongs of even going to war at all, even previous ill starred militarily operations did not have the useless, lazy, idiotic aftermath.
22 year old 'experts' sent out there, fresh out of education, people picked purely on idealogy.
The nation who helped rebuild Germany and Japan after WW2, both far more destroyed, seems as far away from America now, as Victorian Britain, workshop of the world, most powerful military rule the waves power, is to Britain now.
But the former is less than a human lifetime ago, the latter from the century before last.
Have the people changed?
I'm not sure deep down they actually do, the average person that is.
The leaders have though, the US of, what they like to call 'the greatest generation', would never have elected G W Bush.
This is not about Dems or GOP, it's about basic competence.
But he's just the ultimate symbol of a deeper malaise.
Soundbite culture, emotion over substance in the media that projects them.
The US is not alone in all this, but the process is more advanced there.
Hopefully since last year, we see signs of it coming to an end.
Palin even getting picked for VP was an example of the very worst aspects of this malaise, her rejection maybe a sign of hope.
It's 40 years since America provided humanity with it's greatest exploration achievement, was that the peak?
Did things start to slip after that?
Let's hope not.
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Ref129 Mrs Smith.
The objects displayed are original & unusual with the bronze vessels
particularly desirable.
By the way is that you,Isembard Kingdom Brunel??.If so knock three times.,
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Rer 253 Waltonmountain.
That was very entertaining & explains a lot.
How can we ever rectify this?.
Can you book a new trip to Europe for him.
We would jump at the chance to make up for the
terrable ordeal,that has been inflicted!!
He would get very attached to the tower of london
of that I am positive...
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Mister ukwales @ 278,
You are obviously another one of these foreigners upsetting our little Markie, but at least you appear polite.
I was approached yesterday by another foreigner [I think] a squirrelist, who despite my knowledge of europe being out to the east, made lewd suggestions about going at it the other way round. I do not reply to suggestions like those.
Grannie was not amused too. Stumped for words with a frog in her throat we had to call in the local nurse.
The Tower sound good because our little soldier was never able to visit it earlier. Do you have a "bloody" room there? Chuckie would love it if you did. A home from home is always preferable. If you can garantee there will be clean running water there as well, I think he might be interested.
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Simon21 (202):
I know of a former VPOTUS whose favorite science is torture. or is that an art form?
John-In-Dublin (210):
Are we talking about the Dracula from fiction or 14th century Drac-Ula of historical fact? He had a thing against turks, not Europeans.
Canbras (266):
We, the people of the United States of America, were the first people to refer to ourselves as "American" rather than our mulitude of other ancestral nationalities. No other country refers to themselves as "American". When we meet people over seas they say "You're an American, aren't you?" so from common usage both by ourselves and others, Why should we not be called "American?".
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waltonmountain (279):
Was that meant to be read in a cockney accent?
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greysquirrel @ 281
Noticing you are grey and not gray you must be a non USA creature from another place, or a rotten speller.
Go and watch Deliverance like we do on Markies beta recorder and learn how we real people live.
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282, waltonmountain -
Looks like your Markie has been scared away, coward that he is, along with the rest of his legion. Is he hiding in his closet?
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waltonmouintain (282):
I'm from Oregon where the spelling of the word for the color between white and black, is G R E Y, in other parts of the United States, where spelling is not important part of eductaion, the spelling is G R A Y.
It's also an example of how far our public schools have fallen.
Do you mean that movie titled 'Deliverance' where it is said:
"You have a pretty mouth, boy. SQUEAL LIKE A PIG!"
yeah, I drove through deliverace country. It's nice looking from the interstate. But I drove through without stopping or making a Wrong Turn, so I'll just have to take your word for it when you tell me "how real people' live".
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Whoops. Wrong. They're back. Mighty big closet.
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Ref 280, Grey
"No other country refers to themselves as "American"
I sympathize with those that remind us that the term "American" can be applied to everyone born in the Americas, but as you pointed out, not only have we adopted that term to identify ourselves, but our neighbors to the South and North refer to us as Americans...or Americanos. I spent many years in Latin America and not once did I hear anyone identify themselves as Americans. When asked, their proud and unequivocal response was Argentinian, Venezuelan, Guatemalan, etc. I would be remiss if I did not add that I never heard them refer to people from the UK as Briton or British. More often than not they are called "ingleses", except when a person identifies himself or herself as a native of a specific region in which case terms such as Irlandeses, Escoseces, or Galeses are used. IMO, this has more to do with tradition or habits than adherence or disregard of geographical specificity.
Ref 233, Magic
"...but her judicial philosphy has to be considered"
Judging by the questions asked by conservative senators their concern was not centered on her "judicial philosophy", which can be discerned from her decisions as a judge, but on the statements she has made during public speeches that suggest a level of ethnic and gender bias that some find offensive or, as a minimum, are uncomfortable with.
The concern, of course, is that her personal feelings may influence her judgment in the future, in ways that have not been apparent in the past, and that those personal inclination may affect the outcome of cases critical to the conservative base. Interestingly, liberals are equally concerned about her position on abortion, in part because her record does not provide insight on that issue and because the probability of a Catholic Hispanic female being pro-life is very high.
Many of the questions she was asked were tough, but appropriate considering the long term impact that Supreme Court justices have on our society, I was not surprised by her evasiveness and lack of candor which seem to have become the norm during these hearings. Looks like the strategy is "the less you say the better off you will be". It worked well for Alito, Scalia, Roberts, Ginsburg and even Thomas who faced a challenge that would have disqualified even a "wise Latina".
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bere54 @ 283
Chuckie has never been near a closet in his whole life. None of us have.
We prefer the great outdoors, the trees and the fallen leaves are a great joy for us.
We could call him to come and reply to your mail but he looks so happy skipping on the bluff it seems a pity to disturb him.
I must go and sit in the rocker for my evening nap. Exciting hours soon. We get to hear his music collection on the latest phonograph machine. Eat your heart out missy. Dont you wish you had all the latest equipment at your place as well.
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276. At 9:14pm on 15 Jul 2009, SONICBOOMER wrote:
Well Justin, I think what you cite might becoming a bit out of date.
8 years after 9/11, STILL a building site, after many years as holes in the ground.
The America that went from a 15 minutes semi space flight to man of the Moon in 8 years, would have had replacement buildings, better than before, up within a couple of years."
Yes I have been puzzled by this I was under the impression a new building would go up fairly smartly. I thought Bush would push it as a fitting culmination of his presidency.
One suspects that there must have been some sort of row over funding or desing.
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Welcome back Sonic!
I have to say you raise some pertinent questions. I agree it seems likely we have seen the peak of the American Empire, which History may record as coinciding with that other peak. No, not Walton Mountain, from whose hidden depths issue such sparkling insights...
A word to our notably absent Emperor:
The object of talk. A bad reputation is easy to get,
Difficult to endure, and hard to get rid of.
Talk never really dies, not when so many folks
Are busy with her. Talk too is some kind of a god."
Works and Days
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#282. waltonmountain: "greysquirrel @ 281 Noticing you are grey and not gray you must be a non USA creature from another place, or a rotten speller."
Tell that to the dog owners and bus line which both use grey, not gray, in their descriptions. You can't always tell from where someone comes because of the spelling - I can use American or British spelling at will but, since this is a British blog, I utilise British spelling. That is except for those words which have diphthongs, and spell checkers invariably show the US spelling. Never could get the hang of them.
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Pulling in the right direction? Michigan unemployment has hit 15%. Sotomayor is still dodging questions, and reputed 20 years of documents as to what she said, and wrote, or what it meant, or what it should be, or what is was, or whatever. So what paints the clear picture? Pumping money into Pakistan. Blood and money into Afghanistan and Irag. Transparency is an illusion in government, even in the Obama admin with blocking White House visitor records, firing Inspector Generals, hiring two lobbyists from Goldman Sachs for jobs (another campaign promise, not to hire lobbyists). Stimulus I, job hiring lags, Stimulus II, Healthcare (I called my representatives offices and asked if illegals were covered in the healthcare bill being discussed? Or what was in it to make things better? I was told my representative hadn't read the bill yet? Has anyone read this one, or is it like the stimulus, um, er, it has, um, er, spending, shovels ready to shovel what bill.)
Recent news items now Rep Conyers (D) wife is under investigation in recent news. I caught part of that, guess the Congressman just doesn't earn enough I guess. On a positive note, the stock market went up.
Oh I looked up gray and grey in Random house, it lists both.. "Well every silver lining has a touch of gray (grey)." Grateful Dead
My 1971 Norton Interstate does have new tires (tyres), an I hope to register it soon. Save a bit on gas, or petrol, or juice. Dialects abound, do the English still own the language or is it a force all itself. Ciao
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"It's 40 years since America provided humanity with it's greatest exploration achievement, was that the peak?
Did things start to slip after that?
Let's hope not." Sonicboomer
"We are from the government we are here to help."
"We cannot expect that everyone, to use the phrase of a decade ago, will "talk sense to the American people." But we can hope that fewer people will listen to nonsense. And the notion that this Nation is headed for defeat through deficit, or that strength is but a matter of slogans, is nothing but just plain nonsense."
John F Kennedy 22 November 1963, he never got to deliver this speech.
"The right to criticize.
The right to hold unpopular beliefs.
The right to protest
The right of independent thought." Margaret Chase Smith
"But this is slavery, not to speak one's thought." Euripides
"There are three kinds of a lie: a small lie, a big lie, and politics." unknown
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286. saintDominick wrote:
"More often than not they are called "ingleses", except when a person identifies himself or herself as a native of a specific region in which case terms such as Irlandeses, Escoseces, or Galeses are used."
(Happens everywhere, alas. The Arabs call us 'Inghlisi".)
However:
Ahem. Them be countries. Not regions. I'm a northerner--region--by birth as well as English--country --and British--nationality, as in passport. (I know it's confusing.) We're only 'Brits' when we go abroad, get drunk, and mess the place up.
(Scrub the last bit.)
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The headline really should be changed to "Three Cheers for the USA", shouldn't it? Come on, BBC, you can do it. You turned Sarah Palin into Obama, and a train wreck into Quakers, after all. This is easy.
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NEXT.
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212. At 1:01pm on 15 Jul 2009, Hesiodos wrote:
...
and further sources
* "Their sheep
Are hefty with fleece, and women bear children
Who look like their parents. In short, they thrive
On all the good things life has to offer, and they
Never travel on ships. The soil's their whole life.'
Many good resources - thank you!
Prof. Lombardo has come up here before - known to me through my brother...
KScurmudgeon
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When is Justin going back to that cold and miserable and drizzly island with its people under the iron thumb of lefty PC, ruled as they are from afar by faceless and corrupt Brussels bureaucrats in league with corrupt local politicians - and denied even a referendum to try to regain their freedom?
I'm not sure that he's looking forward to it.
292. AmericanGrizzly wrote:
"But this is slavery, not to speak one's thought." Euripides
Knock knock.
Who's there?
Euripides.
Euripides who?
Euripides and you buy me another pair.
258. whoswallowedthefly wrote:
You would think after all the years of oppression he would have learnt to spell his much maligned countries [sic] name.
That poor old misused and abused and frequently omitted apostrophe suffers yet again.
Jacksforge/Happylaze/Joepinapples was often guilty of causing this suffering.
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297:
The emperor return's. Its a vampires convention. Must be; there can't be too different people thinking just like that, can their?
One's been more than enough on this thread.
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297: Since a number of new people have joined us recently, it is only fair to point out that even a brief experience has taught some of us that 'truth' is the last thing one can expect from some who flaunt their 'truthfulness'.
(Unless it's 'truth' in the sense of 'Ministry of Truth, of course.)
See? Different keyboard, I can do apostrophes right now.
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#297. TrueToo: "When is Justin going back to that cold and miserable and drizzly island . . . "
I'm surprised you didn't throw in 'foggy' as well; like your doppelganger you've been watching too many old films which provide an imperfect view of the scepter'd isle. There's just been a heat wave there for "Flaming June", but of course you always like to ignore the facts. It is miserable in the winter, but then so are the northern states. Cold, miserable and drizzle is not confined to one small island.
And what's it to you how the United Kingdom is ruled? Have you ever been there or is this another "chit-chatty" question you'll decline to answer? I feel sure that come the next General Election there will be some changes made, some of which may be to your liking.
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298. squirrelist,
You could try a coherent response. Your repetitive preciousness is unimpressive. Perhaps you really don't see the extraordinary decline of Britain into a PC hole unfit to live in. When people are actually having serious debates about whether their garbage (rubbish) should be collected once a fortnight or once a week and thinking that the latter would be great you know you're in trouble. Are you guys trying to bring back the Plague? Perhaps you imagine daily rubbish collection (apart from weekends) is unnecessary. Do you have any "authorities" there still capable of basic municipal administration? Or are they all bowing to Brussels? Perhaps Brussels will soon be instructing you on how many times a day to brush your teeth and sending inspectors around (paid by you) to ensure that you comply.
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Americans always do the right thing, having tried every alternative first." Winston Churchill
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300. David_Cunard,
I didn't ignore any facts. I didn't know about the heat wave.
No comment to make on corruption and subservience to Brussels? Are you happy to see your country throw away its hard-won freedoms?
There's nothing like repetition to get a joke to wear thin. Do you think you guys could drop the endless repetition that some people here are rolled into one person? The joke wasn't even funny in the first place. Now it has just become tedious.
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smileytm303 # 302,
I read that you are an ex pat now living in America.
However much I enjoy reading quotations made by Winston Churchill, it almost appears we are at a loss with offering anybody else's words to inform and educate.
I must give credit to many American posters who offer a whole range of quotes across the spectrum. , both from their own historical figures and ours.
We must do better. I make a start
"Please give me some good advice in your next letter. I promise not to follow it." Edna St Vincent Millay. 1892-1950 USA
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" See? Different keyboard, I can do apostrophes right now."
Apostrophe's aren't really a problem, y'know!
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"I didn't ignore any facts. I didn't know about the heat wave. "
I'm very well-informed except for what I don't know.
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"Jacksforge/Happylaze/Joepinapples was often guilty of causing this suffering."
And then,
"There's nothing like repetition to get a joke to wear thin. Do you think you guys could drop the endless repetition that some people here are rolled into one person? The joke wasn't even funny in the first place. Now it has just become tedious."
Coming from you, that's almost worth a thin smile.
The thing which calls itself True
Has only a blinkered view
With a chip on its shoulder
As big as a bolder
It has nothing to say at all new
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301. At 09:06am on 16 Jul 2009, TrueToo
The title of this blog reads "Justin Webb's America
Got that?
Mark Mardell (who hasn't taken over here yet) runs the Euro blog. Go and moan there instead of sabotaging this one again. (Except, of course, your mate's filled that one up already with the same stuff in the same phraseology, so they won't be interested.)
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Aglaea,
A blogger once went to the zoo
He saw lions and seals
Even fishes and eels
And a horrid old hog nam'd TooTrue
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302. At 09:07am on 16 Jul 2009, smileytm303 wrote:
Americans always do the right thing, having tried every alternative first." Winston Churchill
Whichis good provided you are not one of those killed when the US tries these alternatives.
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301. At 09:06am on 16 Jul 2009, TrueToo wrote:
298. squirrelist,
You could try a coherent response. Your repetitive preciousness is unimpressive. Perhaps you really don't see the extraordinary decline of Britain into a PC hole unfit to live in. When people are actually having serious debates about whether their garbage (rubbish) should be collected once a fortnight or once a week and thinking that the latter would be great you know you're in trouble."
What? And the US has people living at garbage tips. Which some of them bring to town. Been to San Francisco recently?
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303. At 09:24am on 16 Jul 2009, TrueToo wrote:
300. David_Cunard,
I didn't ignore any facts. I didn't know about the heat wave. "
You didn't know it was high Summer.
Your knwledge of the seasons is about on a par with your knowledge of the Middle east.
next time you visit the likud website try to see if they have a section on the weather.
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311. At 11:15am on 16 Jul 2009, Simon21
My rubbish is collected 3 times a week. But they just won't take away garbage blog posters, don't know why. (They obviously don't in the US, either,)
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313
(I think that's coherent enough, isn't it?)
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So you want a competition, Gimpy?
Here goes:
Poor TooTrue fell ill
He needed a pill.
His zoo wouldn't pay
They sent him away ......
He's here now
In bed
With ice on his head
In the care of the dear old UK
And your dinner will be in the dog
xx
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Simon,
- "And the US has people living at garbage tips."
No, they live in "dumps"Complain about this comment
St Dominick # 184 on the 'Replacing Obama ' thread previously wrote concerning post 9/11 national security programs-
"I wonder how many of our comments on this blog were scrutinized, and how many of us were investigated............... "
Man versus machine.
Isn't technology wonderful, yet in the wrong hands, those people can become tyrants. Its use, withholding or promoting information can tip the scales, dull the sword of justice, and place the blindfold securely over the eyes of the citizen.
Many wonder whether the moderating here is undertaken by USA or UK employees, outsourced to somewhere abroad, or even completed by a faceless machine in the bowels of a building just scanning specific words it has been programmed to react too. At times one has to assume a human element has their finger on the switch because delays for some hours at times in processing, do not sit in the memory bank of a computer. We can but live in hope about a flesh and blood element.
At least we know we have a living editor, diligently writing his daily / weekly blog.
Is there a specific etiquette when addressing a machine ? Is the thing a he , she, or it?
In the past I mistakenly accepted that I was corresponding with another average blogger, but after the constant repeating of the one message on offer, realised he was just another government propaganda specialist. Afraid, jealous, hurt and with a tendency to blindly hit out at others who are participating, the chip on his shoulder now taking on giant proportions, he had been shunned by others with nobody to communicate with. [ He would have had difficulty earning a crust of bread unless it could be shown he had made contact with somebody. I took pity on him in his lonliness. Coventry must be a tough town to work in I believe].
It only finally dawned on me at the third attempt at communication, that I was just being spammed by an inanimate apparatus. Damaged hardware using dated software, though to be fair upon giving it different responses than it expected, the automatic change of programme switch functioned perfectly. Same song, same message, just a different backing group.
In final communications, it was politely explained that I saw very little sense in continuing further. But the requests, demands, spam and attempts at brainwashing continued. I offered my deepest sympathy in the beginning, thinking I was at least responding to an organisation programmer. I offer my deepest sympathy now as well, to the machine.
But we all play the machines at times, hoping that the correct sequence of symbols will appear, and know that shaking it does not get you your money back. Machines like moderators, are forced to suffer a lot. Do give it a go. Perhaps you will be one of the lucky ones to hit the jackpot. Or should that be the Jack-spot? Will I rescind the promise made to Gamblers Anonymous and give it another go? This world is full of maybes, and I am no different than anybody else.
Even President Obama is a gambler, and has been dealt a hand but in a much bigger event than we see on these pages. It all comes down to how he will play his cards in the game. I wish him the best of luck.
Gamblers Anonymous
Is one allowed to have feelings for a machine?. If you could see the tears in my eyes you would know it was true. It is so sad. For the both of us.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ref 311, Simon
"...the US has people living at garbage tips. Which some of them bring to town. Been to San Francisco recently?"
I can not speak for every city in the USA, but where I live the garbage is picked up twice a week, recyclables once a week, and yard refuse once a week. I have visited San Francisco on numerous occasions; it is one of my favorite cities, very clean, attractive architecture, and the scenery is beautiful. Unfortunately, the last time I went there was 10 years ago and I can not tell you what it is like today.
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ref #286
You are right about american is used by the world to describe and refer to the U.S.
In regard to the hearing it is the typical partsian wrangelling that you could lay at the feet of Ted Kennedy who started the abuse the Senate judicial hearings with Bork
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True too.
Jack is crap at spelling, he was also against grammar trolling and defended those who were attacked with it because he favoured content over grammar on a site devoted not believe it or not to spelling.
I will engage in a bit of Gtrolling and under similar context.ie to those that are trying to make their point by Gtrolling.
But dropping an apostrophe is not a crime. next you will be saying I have a cat and I float.
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decline of Britain into a PC hole"
I think the police constable in question might find that awkward .
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TT you once said you would not return where not welcome.
So make good. Do we have to quote you,Again.
do you want to be the bird?
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On rubbish, other than Truetoo complaints of victimisation (strange when all his victims can't come to court but he is allowed to I suspect if that were the case in the real world he would find that unconstitutional.
America does not have rubbish every where.
they store it in the junker in the front yard.
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319. At 12:12pm on 16 Jul 2009, saintDominick wrote:
Ref 311, Simon
"...the US has people living at garbage tips. Which some of them bring to town. Been to San Francisco recently?"
I can not speak for every city in the USA, but where I live the garbage is picked up twice a week, recyclables once a week, and yard refuse once a week. I have visited San Francisco on numerous occasions; it is one of my favorite cities, very clean, attractive architecture, and the scenery is beautiful. Unfortunately, the last time I went there was 10 years ago and I can not tell you what it is like today. "
Last time I went the number of derros in the city centre was astonishing. Begging, living on the streets. It deminished the whole place.
"
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wow the post went off half way through. no matter.
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Winston Churchll, the man who invented time bomb of Iraq single handedly by ignorantly drawing it into existance on a map, the military genius of disaster at Gallipoli, the Prime Minister many Brits consider the best they had in the 20th century, after his country had invented World War II by doing its best to punish Germany in retribution for WWI by making normal life there all but impossible, watched with utter detachment as Adolf Hitler rose to power, voluntarily chose to lay down helplessly before Hitler by not providing nearly adequately for Britain's own defense or preventing Germany's military from rebuilding mightily, when the German bombs and rockets inevitably fell on England in wave after wave of utter terror and destruction Britain could not in any way deflect or respond to said of his nation "this is our finest hour." How lucky I feel not to have been there to witness it first hand. About 70 years later, Brits no longer remember and are not taught the historical facts that had it not been for their last minute rescue by a reluctant far greater force, there would no longer be an England. However, that heroic effort may yet ultimately prove ineffectual as the despotic British government is on the verge of ceding what remains of its sovereignty to power in Brussels where the strings are pulled from Berlin and Paris. What the German V1s, V2s, Luftwaffe and Wermacht combined could not achieve with all their military might, Prime Minister Grodon Brown will make a fait accomplis all by himself with the stroke of a pen. What a loser of a nation Britain is.
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320. At 1:12pm on 16 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #286
You are right about american is used by the world to describe and refer to the U.S.
In regard to the hearing it is the typical partsian wrangelling that you could lay at the feet of Ted Kennedy who started the abuse the Senate judicial hearings with Bork"
Right well that is certainly interesting. As an example of your woeful ignoarance about your own country.
You do know stacking the supreme court is an age old US tradition like gerrymandering and lynching.
Blaming it on Ted Kennedy is like pretending voting scandals began with George Bush
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In the UK it is customary to give three cheers to the losing side in a conflict. Like the zulus a " Damn good showing there lads" they gave at the end of the film;).
So here I will say
"Three cheers for the USA."
Hip hip Horay
Hip hip Horay
Hip hip Horay
Now can we get off this tired old horse. I suspect that I am going to get banned for owning a cat. (but it is a terrier,honest)
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Truetoo seeing as everyone keeps assuming you are hiding something why don't you tell us where you are from.
just that you tried to suggest you were british before and now you're not.
is there ANY truth to your name.
or is it rhyming slang honest
you will note a total lack of punctuation. (opps a period) to keep you guessing.
Mrs smith nice work.
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Ref #328
Simple Simon:
Give me an example where the Republicans abused advice and consent the way The Liberal Hyena did.
Stop watching MSNBC and reading the Daily Kos.
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Is it possible TrueToo lives in Singapore, the bastion of cleanliness? Since he/she apparently has rubbish collection every day?
Where I live in the U.S. there is no rubbish pick-up. We haul it to the dump ourselves, whenever we feel like it. Saturday mornings, the dump is the liveliest place in town. Politicians campaign at town dumps on Saturday mornings, because that's where it's at. Sorry, I forgot it's called the "transfer station," apparently because the garbage gets transferred somewhere else.
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#303. TrueToo: "I didn't ignore any facts. I didn't know about the heat wave."
If you consider yourself well-informed, then at least you could glance at the main page of this site and perhaps look at more detailed news of the United Kingdom. That you have not demonstrates that you post on this bog with a specific agenda.
"Are you happy to see your country throw away its hard-won freedoms?"
As noted previously, to quote Harold Macmillan (if you can remember him) "the winds of change are blowing". There are many things I dislike about the "New" Labour government but, to their credit, they passed legislation creating Civil Partnerships which rather contrasted with Mrs Thatcher's Clause 28. Neither was perfect but then nothing is, not even in the USA. How dull life would be if it were.
"Now it has just become tedious."
Like your own one-note tune.
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#327. MarcusAureliusII: "Winston Churchll, the man who invented time bomb of Iraq single handedly by ignorantly drawing it into existance on a map"
Single handedly? The League of Nations provided the mandate.
"his country had invented World War II"
To use a good old American term, you're nuttier than a fruit cake.
"What a loser of a nation Britain is."
I believe the same thing could be said of the poster.
With regard to Winston Churchill though, you forget that he was half American, so using your own logic, that undoubtedly was the reason for whatever errors he made.
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Marcus:
327
Yes, Americans hate to lose all right,they will make you pay forever for it.Boy, didn't they make the Sioux pay for whipping pretty boy Custer at The Little Big Horn?
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332, cannyhephaistos -
Interesting to know there are other places in the States with no garbage collection. Dragging those bags off to the dump is a big pain in the butt, isn't it? Who would have thought this kind of thing could still be the norm in areas of the greatest country in the world?
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majickirin." Give me an example where the Republicans abused advice and consent the way The Liberal Hyena did."
What question are you answering here. Did you confuse the post or are you just repeating some trash you clipped from the web-site of doom. .
Republicans abusing advice. I wonder if there are any examples.
like the advice that there "may be but not certain links to WMD. that was Politically changed to "they have"
A report that was not as dodgy as the readers were.
anyway that is an aside what are you saying in the quote and to who are you saying it?
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Ref 331, Magic
"Give me an example where the Republicans abused advice and consent the way The Liberal Hyena did."
I disapprove of the partisan politics and gerrymandering of the right and left, but the re-districting and fundraising strategies championed by Tom DeLay rank high among the most partisan...and successful.
Had it not been for the ineptness of President Bush, the excesses of VP Cheney, and the fact that GOP policies and ideology promoted since the 1980s helped produce the worst economic and fiscal crises since the Great Depression, I suspect Republicans would have remained in office indefinitely. Contrary to what some would like us to believe the USA remains a socially conservative nation, and opposition to our carrot and big stick foreign policy was limited to relatively small number of liberal advocacy groups.
I still support President Obama, and hope his domestic and foreign policies succeed, but I am not too optimistic on the domestic front. The problem, as I see it, is not that he has spent too much, but that the amount that was appropriated to solve our economic crisis was insufficient to solve it.
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David excelent logic Winnie was a screw up it must have been the american in him. I'm with you there and am not being sarcastic .
as for dreaming up Iraq. Between Iraq and a hard place by rory bremener was linked up a while back. it did explain that part of history and was used in an attack on MArcus. now it seems the old dog can learn something new. for having never mentioned it before he does so with regular gusto these days trying to get that pesky jacksforge (who was a rubbish speller) to come out and say something. well it seems he was banned so I doubt that would happen, but I will just so that he will not be disappointed.
Notice I use lack of spelling and punctuation along with the occasional opps and two capital letters at the beginning of names.
it has the effect of making one seem like another.
Which may seem suicidal but if you ate flies you would understand. we long to be like the mosquitos and get some blood.
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That you have not demonstrates that you post on this bog with a specific agenda.
LOL david cunard.
That is class I love it. High five dude.
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canny bere. did you not know that any old vehicle (preferably a UPS van second hand) makes a great dump. you can store the trash there until the property is sold or it catches fire (mysteriously) or some tourist comes by and you can convince them it is actually an installation art piece.
Either way trucking to the "transfer site" is not necessary. When the vehicle is full just get another.
I do know some that moved into a house( well old school gymnasium and had to remove 54 yards of trash.
54 YARDS (cubic yards to brits) because there was no collection and no one to make them throw it out.
There was no law to tell them to remove the dead dog in the freezer or the two yards of animal faeces.
All because they don't have trash pick up. just trash pick ups.
(sorry Sam toyota are the best;)
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We have trash pickup, but choose not to pay for it instead taking our own to the transfer station. So called, because you hand over your trash, and the kids get handed candy. They like going to the dump.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbv-baakOuw
ow that looks sharp
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The notion that there is an "Oregon" spelling for "grey" (or "gray") (see post #284) is bunk. Both spellings are in use, depending on the person and the context, as in other places in the US.
Oregon State University, for example, uses "gray" for wildlife, as in Eastern and Western Gray Squirrel, Gray Fox, Gray Wolf, and others:
OSU: Mammals of PNW
If the usage of "grey" is more common in Oregon than in most other places in the US, it is a consequence of the fact that there is a higher proportion of New Englanders who settled in and around Portland.
Here is what H. L. Mencken wrote (in 1921) about the differences between American and British spelling of English:
Mencken: The American Language
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David, dear,"Single handedly? The League of Nations provided the mandate." You have to forgive Markie's habits. They intrude into his manner of expression....
Her Majesty saw poor Toot Rue
And asked, "Is that really you?,
I heard you were sad
And feeling real bad
And you smell like a filthy old shoe.
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this should be good.
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Here's an amusing story on the subject of the spelling of "gray/grey": http://www.bernzilla.com/item.php?id=232
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Gary do you play golf?
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True Too, using your own ignorant, childish analogy, Justin is therefore leaving a land full of obese, trigger happy, burger munching in-breds, who are regressing to a blind science denying faith worship us Brits got rid of over 300 years ago.
No 'creationist museums' on our Island.
Don't like that? No more idiotic than your nonsense on here. But just as wrong.
Returning to Planet Earth, from Planet Kindergarten, but with a diversion to Planet Ancient Rome, the area I'm involved with, the lead of the US is many parts of Aerospace is eroding.
Our named for a Roman Emperor on here, has long cited this area as proof of the superiority of the US and the rotten place he sees Europe as.
Well, the severe delays of Boeing's 787, has become beyond the usual things that happen in technological projects, tends to argue against such hubris.
Now looking to be 3 years late, with serious performance limitations, hopefully (though maybe not) only in the early aircraft, it was due to enter service two months ago.
It's not even flown yet.
Worse, at the recent Paris Airshow, in front of CEO's of customer airlines, Boeing's front man looked them in the eye and stated firmly, that the first development aircraft would fly before the end of June.
Days later, a further delay, caused by a serious miscalculation in the structure strength of a rather important item - that keeps the wings on, which he MUST have known about when he spoke, has sent shockwaves through the industry.
Previous delays also had denials, then leaked out on some official (and sometimes not so official) blogs.
This is the Boeing that went, from a standing start, from the conception to first flight of the 747 in 3 years!
What happened?
Some say it's the replacement of engineering led policy, to marketing led, by lots of types with flashy MBA's.
(Which increasingly seems to stand for 'Major Bulls****r Approaching).
Others say it's the much greater farming out to contractors, Japan for the wings, Italy for the rear fuselage as the major examples.
But their European competitors have been doing that for nearly four decades.
Which brings us to Airbus, the A380 did have substantial delays, caused by, that curse of the modern age, incompatible (cabin layout design) software between plants.
Stupid, very concerning, but, at least the thing was actually flying by then, it did not affect the aircraft's performance either.
I know the 'the Euro's are government backed' excuse may pitch in.
But again, they are repayable loans, neither the Italian or Japan sections of the 787 are, it's a flat out no repayment subsidy. Technically illegal.
Which we also thought Boeing was against?
Almost an industrial version of the 'outsourced to other nation' torture policy of Bush, 'look, it's not US doing this!' No, just giving the orders.
It's amusing to see the usual suspects on here claim all this technical superiority of the US.
But who actually started the whole industrial revolution in the first place?
And there lies a warning from history.
Because complacency lost Britain it's foremost place as an industrial nations, starting in the late 19th/early 20th century. The idea that there would always be captive markets.
I was not trying to poke any fun about 9/11 either, I'm really shocked that a replacement is only now just being built.
I also think that the US of old, would not have started a war in a place where there was no terrorist links, having far from completed the operation from a place where they were.
On the news here right now, more footage of the British military funerals, from Afghanistan.
Which went from, quoting Bush, 'wanted dead or alive', to it seems, 'hell let's go get that guy Saddam'.
Leaving the Taliban/Al Queda to regroup in Afghanistan, so in 2006 when a NATO force deployed, they entered a warzone of almost unprecedented ferocity.
What happened it seems, was rather like if after Pearl Harbour FDR had invaded Mexico.
None of this is being anti US, though I guess the fragile ego types here will never accept that.
(Which when translated into politics is part of the problem).
It is in fact out of a genuine sense of bemusement.
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Why (most) Brits can't dance
With the dumbing down of much of the world, I suppose it is to be expected that the average person can't even write a limerick or any poem for that matter, at least not one that would have gotten a passing mark in the sixth grade when I went to school. The pathetic attempts at poetry here on this board are symptomatic of this sad fact. What most of you Brits can't seem to do is get the rhythm correctly (and some of you can't even make a rhyme adequate for one couplet.) You get the wrong number of sylables in some lines that makes the poem fall apart. Mrs. Smith did poorly around posting #246. She almost redeemed herself at #307 but not quite. Then she blew it at #315. BTW, I don't know which side of the pond she's from, both have their problems. If you can't count rhythm by clapping your hands, tapping your fingers, or even tapping your feet, you can't dance and you certainly can't write a poem. I don't ever complain to the moderators about anyone's postings but these attempts are so awkward they're painful. Now pay attention!
There once was a fool named Canard
Who played in the other guy's yard
Aft' making his point
Gets his nose out of joint
'Cause Marcus hits back very hard
Evidently something this simple is beyond the average Brit's ability to construct. Westminster needs to spend more money on public education and less money on MP's swimming pools, dog sitters, and other perks. Otherwise, soon Brits will be so clueless their soldiers won't even know which end of the gun the bullets come out of. They certainly demonstrated when confronted by the Iraniac Naval flotilla of motorized rowboats a couple of years ago that they didn't know how to pull the trigger.
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That was par for the course.
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301/327
Blood brothers, obviously.
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Marcus glad to see you found your way back after your euro tour. did you like the garlic stake?
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The Heads had a son called Dick
He was a frightful old stick
His mother said, hark
Well try to keep secret dark
By renaming the saddo as mark.
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Mister Cunard @ 334,
Pleased you found something decipherable to respond to in Mark's disjointed posting. He may pretend to attack you later, but truthfully he really misses company these days..
He had a bad night and found concentration difficult. Not only did his teddy bear Ulysses, fall out of bed, but his Captain America pyjamas had to be washed and these are traumatic moments for those trying to reject security items. Suppose it's better than sucking his thumb like he used to.
Blanche
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350:
So glad to see Little Marky is keen on the Rhythm Method. But it can lead to little accidents. Abstinence is better.
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whoswallowinginselfpity;
Such venom one mouth did disgorge
From a man we all knew as jacksforge
Said BBC's cop
This must end! This must stop
So he's banned here forever by George
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marcus that looks like a threat.
if you had pulled it off (not that) without the threat I would have given you a b+
there once was a dinosaur called fred
who used to eat nothing but bread
but it hadn't been invented
so he grew thin and dented
and soon he was lying there dead.
BBC" blue peter book of limericks"1976
only one I ever remembered . seemed appropriate.
You must have been as surprised as I to see Gary show up with that silly dog look all waggy and nice.
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look marcus I'll leave for a while you see how dep a hole you can dig. you have a supporter on the Eruo blog which is quite funny..
well dung.
If you can can you explain why living in a trailer is so much more civilised than in a house?
I personally like the concept of a house that moves to where you want.
OH ,I get it. that way when mr pointy shows up you can hitch and fly.
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Gary ----- marcus what will happen next?
I wonder?
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Oh, Markie, yer rymes are fair awfu'
Watch oot or ye may get a jawfu'
When The Man comes around,
I'll be wagin' a pound,
Ye'll discover that Yiddish ain't lawful
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Who's wallowed in filth thought a fly
Is something I'd much like to try
Jacksforge he did cite
But the fly took one bite
Then he got sick and then he did die
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359.
I got rhythm. (But it ain't necessarily music.
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He's Odious I've heard your song
Your harangue is so boring and long
Once Yiddish tis true
But it's now English too
And as always you're just plain dead wrong
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Wee Markie was spouting his lies
While chewing on limp freedom fries
A computer machinist
While massaging his genius
And dreaming of custard cream pies
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367
If it's only in verse
We must now converse
Then it would help us lots
If we could distinguish
Between Yiddish and Scots.
And fools and horses.
(Note to other contributors: please, at this time. do not feel obliged to rhyme. You can write in prose without treading on toes.)
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ma2
Never done one like this before,
Its so simple its such a bore.
Don't need rhythm dont need skill,
Best left to those who are mentaly ill
Your a bore dude ,just a boor
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I really don't care Mrs. Smith
What words you choose to fight me with
In prose or in rhyme
They're not worth a dime
And nor are your kin nor your kith
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If anyone were to think I referred marcus antipaheticus's squirrelimerick, I didn't. Though of course, I deplore all forms of specieism.
(I would have preferred it so stay as an example of the way this contributor(s) attempts to belittle and insult those who disagree with him. But there's more than one squirrel in this neck of the woods, marcott.)
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#350. MarcusAureliusII: "The pathetic attempts at poetry here on this board . . ."
You should know, your attempt to compose it being a prime example - you're no Stephen Sondheim. Not all poetry has to scan and limericks can be free form. When you get to the next world, ask Edward Lear or Shakespeare perhaps, but then you probably don't understand blank verse. On second thoughts they may well be in Heaven while you're in Purgatory. And there's a lot to purge.
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squirrel
I can easily distinguish between fools and horses. When juxtaposed side by side, you facing me straight on and the horse with its rear to me....the horse is the one with more brains.
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The UK of Wails does pout
Cause so far he feels left out
Of Marcuses' poems
About gremlins and gnomes
So this one's for you, you damned lout
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Canard has come back for some more
He's trying to even the score
But each time he tries
His effort just dies
And shows us again he's a boor
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373. At 9:01pm on 16 Jul 2009, David_Cunard
I didn't think they even let vampires into purgatory? Thought they went to Hell and got tortured for all eternity being made to drink Bloody Mary's?
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"This comment is awaiting moderation". Now that really is funny.
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#376. MarcusAureliusII: "Canard has come back for some more . . . And shows us again he's a boor."
Better a boor than a bore. But then, quite unlike the poster, I'm neither of those.
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One should learn that when digging a hole
The fact that one looks like a mole
Will not make the diet
in one's stomach lie quiet.
Have a worm, and stop digging, a-hole.
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370. At 8:43pm on 16 Jul 2009, ukwales
Remember the dilemma over getting the 'best pome' amber nectar award over to Llanguid? You may find a key to the puzzle in Iran.
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378,
I mean, applied to any post by Marcus Antipatheticus. Hystrerical, if you ask me.
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Where is Justin's successor? It's time for a new thread.
Is Sarah serious about running as an Independent? She is definitely no Ross Perot...
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Am I the only one who that is mystified by the selection of Audra Shay as chairwoman of the Young Republicans while Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor is being drilled about the unlikely probability that her ethnicity and gender may influence her decisions in the future? Should we assume that the possibility of ethnic prejudice is only a concern when it is directed at the majority?
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I suppose hardly anyone knows,
Whether Sarah will give it a go
But, if she tries for Prez,
Our wise Welshman says,
"She is definitely no Ross Perot..."
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358 tootrue
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385. At 11:07pm on 16 Jul 2009, saintDominick wrote:
"Should we assume that the possibility of ethnic prejudice is only a concern when it is directed at the majority?"
Try again. It seems some people have the perfect freedom to call others a "schmuck" and a "damned lout", and imply worse, but I can't make a playful pun on "Beauregard" in French.
(I thought it was quite neat, too.) Anyway what I wrote was:
"Looks like it. The old "fear of the other" as Chomsky put it recently, I think. As we are discovering here, apparently you can't be 'racist' if you only refer to ethnicity or nationality of birth. So that's OK then.
(Gospel of Saint Jeffesron Beauregard Sessions the umpteenth." Pun removed to please the linguistically challenged moderators. Haven't they heard of BabelFish?)
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Nice selection powerhouse.
Agreed that ross perot would be a better choice
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370 UKwales. boer? I'll have you know I HAVE met a nice south african..
358 I disagree with that comment Marcus
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RIrBiVuN3w
return this flavour of the day to you dubby.
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Yo Powerhouse!
Rastafar AYE
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St Dom 383,
Sincere apologies! I credited the Welshman for your line! (386)
I abase myself and beg forgiveness
Vaya con Dios
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Ref 389, Squirrelist
"Looks like it. The old "fear of the other" as Chomsky put it recently, I think. As we are discovering here, apparently you can't be 'racist' if you only refer to ethnicity or nationality of birth. So that's OK then."
The opinion I expressed in my earlier post was limited to the nomination process of Sonia Sotomayor and the relentless questioning about the meaning of her "wise Latina" comment, a line of questioning that I found appropriate, but a bit overdone because of its repetition.
Ethnic and tribal fears and prejudices have existed since the beginning of mankind, and are likely to continue for as long as our species exist; but I think making a case of racism against the USA based on nationality is a tough sell, not only because the evidence suggests the opposite, but because of the ethnic makeup of our population.
I just listened to an inspiring speech delivered by the President of the United States at the NAACP to commemorate the 100th anniversary of that institution in which he acknowledged the unfortunate events that took place until a few decades ago, and ended by emphasizing the opportunities that our country has to offer, the value of a good education - citing himself and his wife as examples of what can be achieved when students and parents work together to meet the challenges that exist in the world we live in - and the value of personal responsibility. His speech, and the charter of the NAACP, are focused on the need for equality rather than the evils of racism and divisiveness, which while it is still present it is no longer the pervasive way of life that dominated our society until as recently as the 1960s.
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I suppose hardly anyone knows,
Whether Sarah will give it a go
But, if she tries for Prez,
Saint Dominick says,
"She is definitely no Ross Perot..."
That's better!
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For those who think this monstrosity has gotten too big for its britches and is totally out of control;
There once was a radio station
That spoke as the voice of a nation
BBC grew and grew
'Til it thought it could do
As it wished like the god of creation.
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Ref 394, Hesiodos
"I abase myself and beg forgiveness"
This priestly character absolves you from all wrong doing, but expects you to do three Hail Marys to guarantee your salvation.
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397 Will you leave so as to reduce bulk.? I ask because I suspect you leaving would have the greatest effect, what with there being so many of you.
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395 I love it. nice post. it did look like it might send the raging bull out of control. all that talk of being nice and getting on is like a red flag.
better get
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbv-baakOuw
ready.
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397 are you saying the BBC created you?
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aww I tried to link a nice version of the swallowed fly song.;( spoil sports.
that's it i'm going home.
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Heez odious
I hate to be the one to break it to you but go and Perot don't rhyme with knows as would be required in a limerick.
I excuse it on the assumption that English is not your first language.
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400, whoswallowedthefly
Oh, I do so agree. And how fresh the air would be, with the exit of that legion.
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396. At 01:52am on 17 Jul 2009, Hesiodos
Well, last time I heard Ross Perot spoken of (a while since, I admit) it rhymed with Pernod.
Marcusantipatheticus, though he really should be more familiar with romance languages, probably thinks that rhymes with 'Land of Nod', and why hasn't his auntie sent him up the mountain to beddy-byes, come to think of it?
StD was attempting to get a serious conversation going until that bloody clot turned up again.
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405 I KNOW. It's amazing this farm has been running for so long and yet no methane capture nor even some extraction.
I really don't know.
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395. At 01:46am on 17 Jul 2009, saintDominick
I had a longish post, but it somehow vanished. Anyway, no point while there are vampires flapping about. Maybe I'll try later. You don't do exorcisms, by any chance? Garlic, cross and silver bullet, that sort of thing? (I'm a bit hazy about the details. Despite that half of my ethnicity. Or whatever.)
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squirrel brain
"go" rhymes with "Perot" (derived from French) because both end in a long "O" sound but neither rhymes with "knows" which is pronounced the same way as "nose" is.
I assume English is not your first language either although I'll be damned if I'll ever be able to figure out what the little cheeping and chattering of squirrels means.
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395. At 01:46am on 17 Jul 2009, saintDominick
Interestingly, in the full Associated Press report one finds this:
"Obama expanded his message of equal rights beyond the black communities. He said many Americans still face discrimination.
Racism, he said, is felt 'by African-American women paid less for doing the same work as colleagues of a different color and gender. By Latinos made to feel unwelcome in their own country. By Muslim Americans viewed with suspicion for simply kneeling down to pray. By our gay brothers and sisters, still taunted, still attacked, still denied their rights.' "