Where is Obama?
A perfectly brilliant piece sets out the extent to which the Obama administration has shrunk from the real political combat that would bring proper change.
As the author asks: "Barack Obama, where are you?"
On healthcare, the answer, I think, is that the loss of Tom Daschle is beginning to be felt - he could have knocked heads together in a way no-one else really can.
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Jeez Justin! Rome wasn't built in a day and 100% "proper" change can't come in six months. Tony Blair couldn't manage it in such a short time and that's in a much smaller country where change is easier to implement. You expect too much too soon.
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Justin: This is a nice piece, but the author makes the same mistake that too many folks make: that Obama can take a lot of independent action. What's going on here is that Obama is finally figuring out who really holds the strings of power in this town. Congress always has and always will hold the real levers of power in this country; it has also been said here before, by me and others, that they are totally beholden to the folks who "brung them to the dance". Look at how they have historically managed the budget, the tax code, and the law, and ask yourself why anyone should believe that the changing of a President is going to make any real change here.
We are broke and $56 trillion (or more) in debt, counting those pesky obligations to SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. If the Congress isn't willing to discipline itself to deal correctly with that, do you suppose they are going to do anything with cap-and-trade, or health care, or the other big issues, other than try to please all the folks who paid for their Washington presence?
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Dear Jeez ustin,
Just i have finished of your writings on Where is Mr.Obama?
He is still there.As per my serious,constant reading,listening,watching,getting email from White House,he has taken a very tough job as a American President.
His foreign trips are making some inroads.
His economic pakages,bail out plans are started moving in right directions.
Recent Health Care plans are yet to be take good shape,acceptance by people,insurance agencies will take some months.
Rome or London or New Delhi,Madras were not built by all of a suddent.
Please see your country-Britan Prime Minister,Mr.Gardon Brown is really struggling to bring back economic tracks.
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Interesting article but the methods that it proposes are simply impossible. You would never be able to force bills like the ones that the author wants through congress.
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The presidency of the United States is not a totalitarian position that allows its occupant, regardless of party affiliation, to impose his/her agenda or goals on anyone. President Obama has set an ambitious agenda for Congress and the American people to consider. It is up to us, the people, and our representatives in Congress to decide what is best for our country. More often than not, the end product is very different from what was originally proposed, and I suspect that will be the case with healthcare and energy reform. Accomodation and compromise is already evident in foreign policy: Obama's Iraq policy is a mirror image of Bush's, and besides a greater focus on Al Qaeda, the same is true for Afghanistan. The closure of the Guantanamo prison is no longer a topic of conversation, and gay marriage and immigration reform is a thing of the past. Even the stimulus package is little more than the TARP bill passed by Bush. Don't confuse campaign rhetoric and whimsical slogans, such as "change we can believe in" with the realities and challenges of governance.
President Obama is doing fairly well under the circumstances, but don't expect any miracles. Long term solutions to solve our economic malaise require a level of sacrifice that no politician is likely to propose to the American people. As a result, we will continue to control our fiscal hemorrhage with band-aids while the nation is gasping for air in ICU.
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IMO, Obama is simply the pitch man for his party leaders in congress. He has tied his horse behind the congressional band wagon and is gambling that congress is making the right choices.
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"the Obama administration has shrunk from the real political combat that would bring proper change"....exactly as intended right from the start. Everything according to script. The Obama scammer was apparent long ago to anyone who's followed American election charades for more than a fortnight. It's the same old corporate-imperialist agenda with a 'multi-cultural' face. Obama is a personality change, not a policies change from Dubya. There's not a dime's worth of difference between Republican imperialists and Democratic imperialists. The "real political combat" is yet to come No war but class war!
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#5 saintDominick,
The presidency of the United States is not a totalitarian position that allows its occupant, regardless of party affiliation, to impose his/her agenda or goals on anyone. President Obama has set an ambitious agenda for Congress and the American people to consider. It is up to us, the people, and our representatives in Congress to decide what is best for our country. More often than not, the end product is very different from what was originally proposed, and I suspect that will be the case with healthcare and energy reform.
I agree, except to say that Obama should be more proactive in what the details of the legislation are. The fact that congress speedily passes things without reading them should give him cause for concern.
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Accomodation and compromise is already evident in foreign policy: Obama's Iraq policy is a mirror image of Bush's, and besides a greater focus on Al Qaeda, the same is true for Afghanistan.
I would not agree that there is a greater focus on Al Qaeda. I think it is more an acknowledgement that NATO has not performed to expectations. Bush was already sending additional troops to Afghanistan.
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The closure of the Guantanamo prison is no longer a topic of conversation, and gay marriage and immigration reform is a thing of the past.
I'm not sure what you base that on since there is no plan on what to do with the prisoners once the base closes. Immigration reform is still out there. Obama just told congress he will push for a sweeping overhaul of the nation's immigration system by early next year. Gay marriage is also not settled since the CA Supreme Court upheld Prop 8.
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Even the stimulus package is little more than the TARP bill passed by Bush.
I'm not following you on this one.
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Don't confuse campaign rhetoric and whimsical slogans, such as "change we can believe in" with the realities and challenges of governance.
Well said.
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President Obama is doing fairly well under the circumstances, but don't expect any miracles. Long term solutions to solve our economic malaise require a level of sacrifice that no politician is likely to propose to the American people. As a result, we will continue to control our fiscal hemorrhage with band-aids while the nation is gasping for air in ICU.
If you sell miracles to the people in order to get elected, people have a tendency to expect you to deliver.
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Ref 8, Rod
"I agree, except to say that Obama should be more proactive in what the details of the legislation are."
I still support President Obama and most of his policies, but I am very disappointed with his hands off approach on healthcare reform. IMO, healthcare reform is necessary not only because of moral and humanitarian reasons, but because it would reduce the burden being borne by our corporations, making them more competitive both at home and abroad.
According to recent polls 70% of Americans are in favor of healthcare reform, the problem is that most of us don't know what it entails and, most importantly, we don't know how we are going to pay for it. What started as universal healthcare, and keeping private insurance for those that prefer it, has evolved into some nebulous co-ops that nobody understands and that will continue to exclude the millions of Americans we were supposed to help in the first place. McCain's proposal to tax corporate insurance benefits is suddenly back on the table, in spite of Obama's campaign rejection. In a nutshell, we seem to be talking about reforming a system for the sake of changing things without a clear understanding of what it is we are changing, what are our best options, or how to pay for the changes we are proposing...whatever they are.
I am afraid that unless our great communicator does a better job at communicating, this badly needed initiative is doomed.
My earlier comment about the TARP and stimulus package was an attempt to establish a link between Bush spending $700B bailing out the banks, which I believe was necessary to keep them solvent and prevent a financial collapse, and Obama doing the same to solve the real estate disaster. Where Obama went wrong, in my opinion, was giving money to auto industries that only covered their quarterly obligations and did nothing to restructure those companies, eliminate unprofitable product lines, and reduce the level of debt.
BTW, I think it is embarrassing that the China's government rejected an offer by a chinese company to buy Hummer on environmental grounds!
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Media-politics. The way I see it there are active health reform and energy efficiency reform bills on the table, newspapers are publishing hints that we may be coming out of this recession already. Even McCain has acknowledged that Obama has done everything he said he would. Has his quiet reaching out to the muslim people inspired a reaching out of the voice of the muslim people in Iran of all places, for themselves, by themselves? Israel is being forced to take a stance on settlements outisde their borders. I am comfortable that this man has achieved a moment of quiet in the storm and brought reason to the US government. There were tears of joy across this world when people saw the US overcome prejudice and hate and vote a man into office for his obvious worth, intelligence, training and character. Good on him.
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I agree with David Cunard, and would like to add that it will take a long time to repair the damage that the previous administration took eight years to arrange.
Give the man a chance; he's off to a better start than many of his predecessors.
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"Man must know his limitation" that what Clint was saying and that's what Obama must understand too well. We should remember about it also, especially when it comes to reforming health system in this country.
Expecting real reforms which would benefit all society is still a dream. Opposition from too many influential folks whose substantial wealth comes from the current health services set up is great. They have reason to worry for the proposed reforms in health system is costly. To curtail costs cuts must come from somewhere. Obama is facing similarly formidable opposition that Hillary once faced. Pharmaceutical companies, insurers, medical professional organizations they all like the current status quo. All these groups work hard to spread bad news about proposals by Obama team and big chunk of a public may actually be taken for the ride. The longer the opposing sides square up, the higher probablility of insignificant changes and failure to achieve any true health reform.
Vince Packard in his "Status Seekers" briefly discusses the health system in this country and compares it to Cuban (!) health system. What struck me was the ratio of doctors per capita in Cuba to that of USA. In this country that ratio is artificially controlled and thus there are fewer physicians per capita here then in Cuba. The effects ? - higher costs for physician's services due to lower competition among doctors and greater probability of retaining incompetents in health services which in turn suggests possibility of harm instead of help. Interesting is also the fact that to get into a medical school in this country talent is not enough. (that is in contrast to Cuban requirements). One needs a recommendation of a person who is already a professional. In other words, recommendation of a doctor is a must. Well, the caste is taking good care of itself and to expect AMA to allow expansion of its ranks is quite improbable. More doctors could however cut costs of health services considerably; and incompetents would fade away much faster.
While the American society may forget about drastic changes, even relatively small (but still significant) proposal to have a parallel to private insurance public counterpart meets stiff opposition wherever it counts. Will Obama's health reform be significant only in name? Who knows. In this materialistic society he may not succeed with his, initially proposed, health reform.
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As long as the GOP, the republican'ts and the neo-cons continue to act the way they are doing, Obama has no problem with the American people. By now, with Gingrich, Sarah Palin, and Cheney trying to resuscitate the GOP and governor Mark Sanford's humdinger of a sex scandal, Obama doesn't need to show up anywhere in particular. The American people are now more behind him than ever before. One thing is visible, the Neo-con news media outlets are keeping mum and the republican'ts are still howling foul after only 150 days in office, but no one is listening.
But Obama must not let his guards down. He is vulnerable, not by the republicants, but by the conservative democrats in the party. Yes, indeed, these "blue" dogs democrats hung on to Obama's coat tails when he was running for president, only to change their colors once the votes were counted.
Unfortunately, he must do what LB Johnson did when he became president. And that is to strip all those conservative democrats from their vital Congressional positions.
It was the conservative granddaddy of them all, Benjamin Disraeli, who said: "damn your principles, stick to your party!" True democrats are different, the have both party and principles except for those 10 or so democrats covering themselves in republican'ts clothing.
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All my life I have heard "If you want to know what life will be like in 5 years, look at California."
That's still true today, unfortunately.
Californians want it all and refuse to pay for it. There is a reason for that - 90 years of continuous economic growth, which built a light-hearted confidence that has been unshakable, even now; the confidence is there even when the growth isn't.
Californians cannot come to consensus, not on the street, not in the press, certainly not in their legislature. They will not. Because then someone would have to loose, and none of them will consider loosing for a minute.
As has been said, the US Congress will not consider making any special interest the looser, not for a minute, not even to rescue the nation in its distress. We must contain and reduce the growth of health care, but then someone would have less money. There appears to be no one in the country strong enough to decide who that should be.
The auto industry was easy - they fell under their own weight. So did the financial house of cards - but will anyone have the will to pass regulations capable of preventing a repeat of their debacle? Apparently not. Congress has already forgiven them.
Congress has the power, and Congress isn't about to change anything. Spend more, oh yes, but change anything, no, and no again. California, here we come!
KScurmudgeon
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#14. KScurmudgeon: "Californians want it all and refuse to pay for it."
Obviously not a writer from the Golden State! It's the politicians in Sacramento, no the man-in-the-street. The Governor's record is atrocious and he must accept the blame.
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14, KS, actually, the man in the street made his will known at the ballot
box - they want the state to tighten its belt. It's the politicians in
Sacramento who don't want to face reality.
If you want to really understand California, take a look at this posting.
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KScurmudgeon has an interesting point:
California as a Microcosm of America 5 years in the future.
Perhaps one should also compare the governor of California today, to the President of the United States 5 years from now (assuming he gets re-elected).
Schwarzenegger has failed to deliver on his campaign promises because legislators in Sacramento continue to ignore his proposals, which have had to go to statewide referendums just to be voted on.
Congressional leaders KNOW they have the reigns of power in Washington D.C. They give lip service to their figure head's proposals, while piling on the pork, taking bribes (that they voted to legalize) from lobbyists and corporate fat cats. The only form of National referendum in this Republic is the Presidential election.
Only a broadly based popular movement can bring about real change in America, because that's what it will take to replace crooked politicians in congress with real statesmen.
In 2012 those who voted for Obama may still like him, and will probably re-elect him, but they will be so thoroughly fed up with Congressional Democrats that they will vote them out.
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15. At 06:29am on 30 Jun 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
'Obviously not a writer from the Golden State! It's the politicians in Sacramento, no the man-in-the-street. The Governor's record is atrocious and he must accept the blame.'
I did grow up out there, and left as soon as I was able. It is true that the man on the street, as my one brother remaining there allows, would like to see some reason. But diversity of opinion and fully matured selfishness prevent any consensus that could be acted upon. They do love their diversity, and in nothing more than in their politics. They both embrace and reject their gays simultaneously - drives everybody crazy. Nowhere is there so active a popular referendum system - drives both the legislature and the judicial systems crazy. The Gubernator isn't the first leader they've elected based solely on his film image - embarasses my brother to tears.
They are incapable - the evidence is ... evident. It is, or was, paradise. Fantasyland, named for a 16th century fantasy in the greatest age of fantasy-adventure, in fact. They take dreams and turn them into reality, just as Texas makes boasting into real facts. But the chips are being called in.
It was fun while it lasted - the stuff of legend.
KScurmudgeon
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17. At 07:02am on 30 Jun 2009, GreySquirrel1867 wrote:
'Only a broadly based popular movement can bring about real change in America, because that's what it will take to replace crooked politicians in congress with real statesmen.
In 2012 those who voted for Obama may still like him, and will probably re-elect him, but they will be so thoroughly fed up with Congressional Democrats that they will vote them out.'
Great post - I agree completely. I'm hoping that the disgust reaches overflow by 2010, and Obama gets a congress ready for change in this term.
KScurmudgeon
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Every president spends "the first 100 days" making the grand statements and gestures. Then they twist arms behind closed doors and privately use the bully pulpit with Congressmen and Senators in the oval office and through capital hill meetings. Then...if they haven't made "progress", they either use the media to take it to the public, or shrink into making deals.
Any new laws or changes to the established landscape *do* require the vote of the House and Senate (unless there's been a change to the constitutional balance of powers while I was out of town).
And you thought this new president could or would fare any better?
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KScurmudgeon:
Before the Grand Old Party abandoned conservative values and started backing RiNOs, I too considered myself a Republican.
It will take a lot more shenanigans in congress before voters get that disgusted in 2010.
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The President's energy tax bill barely passed in the House. If a vote were taken today, it would die in the Senate. Not only will this policy have to make a lot more sense to Americans but they will have to be convinced that America's major trade competitors are making comparable sacrifices. It doesn't appear China or India will agree to that while Europe lied about Kyoto largely failing to meet its committments.
In the six months since Obama took office, he's broken a lot of campaign pledges. Was he simply a naive inexperience politician far out of his depth or a cynical one lying by saying whatever he thought it would take to get elected...or both?
From where I sit it appears that the economy is getting worse, taxes are likely to go up, the middle class will foot the increased tax burden, the most pressing foreign policy issues of North Korea and Iran are getting worse and nothing seems to be moving in the right direction. It's about what I expected all along.
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@9 (StD): "In a nutshell, we seem to be talking about reforming a system for the sake of changing things without a clear understanding of what it is we are changing, what are our best options, or how to pay for the changes we are proposing...whatever they are."
Nicely put, StD! It reminds me of a short story in which a group of folks were being preyed on by TWO villains who were also in mortal combat with each other. The folks were preyed on from both directions.
As far as the banks are concerned, I'm not as certain we did the correct thing, either with Bush or Obama. The "toxic assets" are still out there, and there doesn't seem to be any movement to clean them up. If there's not movement there soon, it's going to look more and more like we applied a $1Tln bandaid to an infection, instead of going in and cleaning the infection out.
@17 (GS): "Congressional leaders KNOW they have the reigns of power in Washington D.C. They give lip service to their figure head's proposals, while piling on the pork, taking bribes (that they voted to legalize) from lobbyists and corporate fat cats. The only form of National referendum in this Republic is the Presidential election."
Of course they know. So do their supporters. If you were a donor to political campaigns, which would give you the largest ROI: (a) donating to a President that will be gone in 4 or 8 years, and who has only limited control over the budget, the tax code, and the law; or (b) donating to a Congressman or Senator that could be around for much longer and who is part of an institution that basically owns the budget, the tax code, and the law? That's an easy choice...
Passing note: The proper spelling of the things in the Congressfolks' hands is REINS (as in the things that horses are led with). It's quite true, though, that too many Congressfolks think they REIGN, rather than SERVE.
"Only a broadly based popular movement can bring about real change in America, because that's what it will take to replace crooked politicians in congress with real statesmen.
In 2012 those who voted for Obama may still like him, and will probably re-elect him, but they will be so thoroughly fed up with Congressional Democrats that they will vote them out."
I'm not sure voting the Congressional Ds out is the correct goal, because both the Rs and the Ds have run the institution, and they have both run it into the ground. I'm more concerned about voting in a crowd of people that is going to do the hard things that are required. We need Constitutional amendments to require balanced budgets, no tinkering with Congressional districts to make seats "safe", require payoff of the national debt (that will take a long time!), and a host of other politically unpalatable decisions. Whatever Congress we put in there is going to have to fall on its collective sword and be willing to commit political suicide for the benefit of the nation.
The scary part is that even if we got a Congress willing to do that, we might not have state legislatures willing to actually accept the amendments and ensure they became part of the Constitution. That's almost too awful to contemplate.
@14, 18 (KsC): "But diversity of opinion and fully matured selfishness prevent any consensus that could be acted upon."
I think you may have written an appropriate epitaph for not only California, but also America, if we don't change our ways. The diversity of opinion is not a bad thing, but the fully-matured selfishness is, and you couldn't have said it better.
I was thinking yesterday about the Greatest Generation, and how it sacrificed so much at such an early age for the benefit of children and grandchildren (us) that it had never even seen. I was also wondering what kind of similar sacrifice the Baby Boomers would be called on to make, since it's highly unlikely we are going to have to go to war as our parents did. I realized that the sacrifice we are already being called to make is to sacrifice at the very least our plans for wealthy retirement (if not actually the length of our lives) to stabilize the finances of the US enough to allow our children and grandchildren to at least have a fighting chance for continued freedom. Whether or not we will actually make that sacrifice is still an open question.
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Quote "no matter how warmly the President smiles when he comes to visit"
BBC TV news said that we (Great Britain) are not uppermost in President Obama's thoughts, Justin.
No matter how polite the gentleman was to you the other day in that interview. Quelle surprise.
I fully understand - he has more important things to consider - like the subject of this thread - so why the puzzlement that Great Britain isn't more important to a US President........ oh hang about! lol
Subject: no matter how warmly the president smiles when he comes to visit
Anagram: Diss hair - I sloth - Met shows non white weaver mettle - encrypt memo.
Sloth? lol
I cannot believe a fraction of USA citizens believe half of what they see over there on their Media.
After he sought out the BBC in that lineup the other night - I was rather sad to see Joe Jackson's recent "business oriented comments" but hey!
A legal mind - 12 years suggested as suitable recompense for financial misbehaviour? Say what?
And how that yalk show host can allegedly suggest infidelity by a Republican is all the fault of a Democratic Commander in Chief - and still be on "air" astounds me. Only in America.
No offence people but thank goodness. lol
Where is Obama, Justin?
With his Lawyers perhaps - seeing if there is a get out clause - in the terms of his current job. I would not want to show such "allegedly closed minds" anyone elses mettle.
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#1, 2, 5, 10: What they said.
Also, don't forget President Obama is a Constitutional scholar himself...he knows perfectly well where his powers and opportunities lie within our governmental system of checks and balances. Given the necessities surrounding unwinding and repairing the damage done to the US in the world by the past 8 years of interventionism and fiscal irresponsibility, added to the unexpected crises on the Presidential plate (swine flu, Iranian uprising, Honduran coup) and constant obstructionism from the minority-without-other-agenda, I'd say he's doing a brilliant job.
Americans are loud, opinionated -- sometimes ignorant about their opinions -- and armed with both firearms and tiny media. It makes for a heady and confusing mix, but read the Constitution and watch carefully where the President steps. It's educational.
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First you must understand that Congress is basically run by corporations and other commercial interest. Tom Daschle was brought in by his pimp, the insurance angcies, slapped, and sent back out on the street to do their bidding. The Republicans, also working for the insurance industry, have lead a campaign of mis-information about a public option system. Congress appropriates funds and without that approval nothing will happen. It is not President Obama, it is Congress that is the issue. The corruption of Wall Street is reflected in the current Congress and will not go away until some reasonable distance is enacted for corporate interest and Congress. Interesting how funds are available to banks and automakers but healthcare for citizens will create a large debt. Congress approves of their own government funded and operated healthcare but find it unreasonable to extend such benefits to citizens. Hopefully, because of their lack of diligence most will be removed in the next election.
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#18. KScurmudgeon: Ref California: "I did grow up out there . ."
That gives you as much experience of life there as MAII's few years in France. He relies on TV broadcasts to form his opinions and you rely on your brother. Birds of a feather!
" . . and left as soon as I was able."
I might ask why you found California so awful that you felt compelled to leave as soon as you were able? And if it is so bad, why does your brother stay? Clearly it is not quite as bad as you suggest.
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AS several others have pointed out here, due to the constitutional set up of our government, it is much more difficult, I'd say damn near impossible, for Obama to make his proposals and simply railroad them through congress as can be done in, say, the UK due to the interconnectivity of parlament and prime minister, and as such the party of any given prime minister is always the majority party in said prime minister's parlament, making it very difficult indeed for the opposition to even force compromises, much less stop, the proceedings in the passing of legislation.
However this having been said, does this mean that it is ok for Obama to just sit back and watch congress screw up our future yet again? Of course not!! If anything this unfortunate (or fortunate) which ever way you want to look at it, fact should cause Obama to be out on the stump selling his proposals to the American people, and practicly moved into capital hill in order to get some semblance of his proposals passed!! The gall of the man!! If we don't get health care "reform" through now (as the author rightly said,) there is no guarantee that we'll ever have another chance to do so again!! Same goes for climate change!! Do you know what it would do to our international reputation if we don't have decent proposals and/or aren't able to come to a common consensus with the rest of the world on how to best combat global warming post Kyoto at the Denmark summett at the end of the year? It will make our downfall after Iraq look like a walk in the park!! And as regards health care, 2009 is to America, what 1948 was to Britain. A literally once-in-a-life-time opertunity to pass the legislation and get it enacted. And we are squandering it like a drunken sailor in Vagus.
Just because current circumstances don't necessarily conform to one's ideal desires for what they want, doesn't mean that they should just give up. Come on Obama, find your inner Winston Churchill and Abroham Lincon and get a backbone!
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Thoughtful article cited from the FT. Well written, with the most cogent line in the final paragraph:
'Is it too much to ask that Mr Obama should tell voters the truth?'
Well, no. But it would be asking him to change the habits of his lifetime.
Telling people what they only wish to hear has taken him a long way in a short time, we must all admit.
As people of all shades of opinion view the explosion of debt he has ushered in, they know the bills will come due upon them, their children, and grandchildren. This is a concrete fact (among many) that he cannot simply dismiss with that radiant smile.
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KScurmudgeon #14: '"As has been said, the US Congress will not consider making any special interest the looser, not for a minute, not even to rescue the nation in its distress."
But if congress was intent on fighting and resisting the influence of "special interests" as Obama promised he would do for two years, then it could manage to get some form of health care reform through. Right?
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29, OldSouth, I could not agree more. One would think that trillions of dollars
later we would have something tangible, such as an updated electrical power
grid or a high speed rail network. Instead, all we have is a sinking dollar.
It's not hard to see through this guy and his health care plan doesn't make
any sense at all. He is not in favor of tort reform, a major factor in health
care costs.
Like KS, I concur that the problem with Americans is that we somehow believe,
collectively, that we are entitled to more than we produce, and that the
government can magically solve all of our problems if only we gave it more
control over our lives.
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KS #18
"It was fun while it lasted - the stuff of legend."
I lived there for 5 years and I agree. Only it broke my heart to leave and come back to the real world. California is a civilization all its own. It is part of America and could probably exist no place else on earth but it is not quite like the rest of America. It lives in a true fantasy world of its own making and refuses to be constrained by the facts of reality. That is why it is so much fun, the stuff dreams are made of, and why it got itself into the kind of trouble it's in now.
In many ways, you can become whatever you want to become in California. The line between acting out a fantasy in life and being for real seems to have been blurred to the point where it is a gray shady ill defined area. That is why a guy who was a body builder from Austria could later became a movie star in Hollywood and then could even become the Governor of the state. Tell me somewhere else in the world where that could happen.
The state's finances have been literally run into the ground, much as say Argentina's was a few decades ago. They are utterly irresponsible not only in their finances but in every other way. Argentina recovered from it and so will California but I'll be damned if I know how. They always seem to find a way though. They are creative enough to invent just about anything and then make it work.
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I'd say Obama has negotiate the mine field very well. People are still laying new ones as fast as they can it seems.Where is he? Well he's not in Crawford playing golf is he?
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"It lives in a true fantasy world of its own making and refuses to be constrained by the facts of reality. "
so you ARE California.
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#14 "Californians want it all and refuse to pay for it." and #15:
I have to agree with KScurmudgeon on this one (and I am in California, although not of California). There is an excellent article on California's problems in a recent copy of The Economist called The Ungovernable State, which can be found online. It is not so simple as blaming the Governor.
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american states are all the same rally
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I don't think this piece is really fair to Obama. It accuses him of asking for no tax increase to pay for healthcare, whereas in fact he has suggested that the change in healthcare should be covered half by cuts and half by taxes. Mr. Obama is also very wary of making a Clinton mark II mistake on the issue by trying to lead from the front too much. On as thorny an issue as healthcare, one cannot be too careful.
On the green issue, the piece ignores the huge incentives for green energy included in the stimulus package as well as the huge international weight that can now be brought to bear on emerging producers such as China and India (without whom nothing can be done) to begin to cap their emissions in a similiar way - note that the more countries have a cap and trade system, the more effective the market in permits will become.
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#35
Gary,
I would agree. I'd also note that this weeks Lexington contains a far more nuanced criticism of Obama that shows a deeper understanding of the US Congress and it's issues than the FT article Justin cites above. It will be even more interesting to see where this goes now that Franken has won the election and the people of Minnesota will finally be represented fully in the Senate.
Also interesting to see Marcus predicts Economic gloom just as the Fed and leading economic indicators show a return to slow growth in Q3 of this year. Even more ironic the observation that a second rate actor became chief executive and helped bankrupt California, suggesting it could hjappen no where else. I guess we forgot the economic ruin that followed Ronnie Reagan's alzheimer driven presidency.
Reader Sam
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Climate Change (formerly known as global warming until we realised that there was no actual warming)
What a joke
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Re #9 Saint:
What polls indicate 70% want healthcare reform? Without basis and a statistically reasonable population sample, that is a bogus reference. What does your "reform" actually mean?
Re #13 Fox
Whether you hate them or not, the GOP is not the cause of Obama's lack of a plan. During the campaign, Obama offered empty rhetoric and sky-high promises. Too bad people took it hook-line-and-sinker. If Obama actually looked at the debate transcripts for McCain's answers, he would be better equipped to deliver something sustainable.
Re #23 arclight
You think (with reason) before you write. That is refreshing. I agree the D's and R's have demonstrated themselves equally incompetent.
When the Americans realize they will be paying for Obama's spending spree for the next 30 years (yes, it is on a 30 note - except for the $1.05 trillion cash Obama had created out of thin air at the Federal Reserve), will the D's still blame Bush? Sadly, they will take no responsibility for the mess they make.
I sincerely hope something slows down the stupidity on Capital Hill.
Well, let us all cheer for ACORN. The uncounted absentee ballots in the trunks of cars got Al Franken in office. To bad it does not matter how the people actually voted.
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Well things just got a little easier for President Obama. The Minnesota Supreme court has just ruled that Stuart Smalley (aka Al Franken) won last Novembers Senatorial election. Before going into Politics Franken was best known as a comedy writer for Saturday Night Live. During his first run on SNL he would occassionally appear with his writing Partner Tom Davis in a series of sketches known as the Franken and Davis Show, during the '79-80 he also started appearing on set of Weekend Update, which is SNL's week parady of the news. I personally prefer having Smalley as the junior senator from Minnesota than Franken, if for no other reason than he's smart, he is funny and gosh darn people like him.
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ref #40 and 41
Remember Minnesota elected Jessie the Body as govenor.
Has anyone noticed that in MN and the Washington govenor race when a republican wins and then there is a recount it is clouded.
But only silver lining for republican Franken is a great target and now all responsibility good or nil goes to the Democrats
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Ref 40, Neil
"What polls indicate 70% want healthcare reform? Without basis and a statistically reasonable population sample, that is a bogus reference. What does your "reform" actually mean?"
A NBC/New York Times poll conducted two week ago indicates over 76% of Americans favor having the choice of a government health insurance plan.
Obviously, polls can be misleading as the responses and results can be influenced by its scope, the way questions are asked, and by the availability or lack of specifics. At the present time there is so much confusion regarding what is being proposed that I don't think anybody really knows what the reform entails, much less how much it is going to cost us.
As for what "my" reform means, I am in favor of universal healthcare, but since that is not going to happen in the USA any time soon, I'll make do with MEDICARE and the supplemental insurance I have, and will deal with all the co-pays, and the constraints in the number of doctors and hospitals I can go to (the cost of going out of network is prohibitive) the best I can.
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Ref 40, Neil
"When the Americans realize they will be paying for Obama's spending spree for the next 30 years (yes, it is on a 30 note - except for the $1.05 trillion cash Obama had created out of thin air at the Federal Reserve), will the D's still blame Bush? Sadly, they will take no responsibility for the mess they make."
Except for a brief period, fiscal irresponsibility has been the norm since the 1980s. Yes, the debt that is being accumulated by the Obama Administration is worrisome, but so was Bush's who inherited a $5T national debt and turned it into a $11T debt by the time he left office, not included over $50T in unfunded liabilities.
There is plenty of blame to go around and neither party seems to know the meaning of fiscal discipline, but in fairness to our politicians, can you imagine what would happen to a candidate that told the American public: I am going to raise your taxes and reduce spending to balance the budget and reduce our national debt? We vote for these guys, elect them, and re-elect them. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.
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Re 42
Ah yes, Jesse "The Body Ventura" everyone favorite heel. I remember him from Saturday afternoons when he broadcast wrestling matches along side Vince McMahon. It was Ventura's role on the telecast to root and chear for the villians. I will always remember him chearing for such notable villians and the Iron Shiek, King Kong Bundy,Rowdy Roddy Piper and Big John Studd. It was all scripted of course, since everyone except Skysports knows that Wresting in fake.
Having said that, Ventura has proven to be a true renaisance man who has some interesting ideas about health care. He doesn't seem to have a high tolerance for the right wing of the republican party. He's also a patriot having served as a Navy Seal. You might say that he's been a true American Original.
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I was stunned by the implications of this article, which were made clear in the final paragraph. Mr. Webb criticizes the President for not pushing his agenda and for allowing the continuation of the status quo "because that is what voters want." Apparently Mr. Webb misses the point of a democracy. What the voters want is what we should get. Of course those of us who are satisfied with our health care should be allowed to keep it. Mr. Webb presents us Americans as idiots who are just too stupid to know what is good for us, so we need a Messiah to come to our rescue. I'm sorry, sir. Consider the idea that many of us have looked at the facts and have decided that we don't want the kind of change (accompanied by massive debt, tax, and price increases) that is being offered.
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Well where is Waldo? I was wondering if anyone has heard of the States Sovereignty movement. I heard it is now up to 30 states at present involoved at present in the US. Looking to reassert state sovereignty to limit the Federal governments power. I think it is noteworty. This could be the way to reign in out of control federal spending, achieve more liberty, and control within the corpulent bureaucracy the federal government has become. I heard some are putting together legal challenges to possibly secede from the union and redifine the US. I have just begun to hear about this an will be researching this.
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"A NBC/New York Times poll conducted two week ago indicates over 76% of Americans favor having the choice of a government health insurance plan."
Saint Dom
The NEW YORK times, ha. I saw what they said about Ricci case. PURE racism. I wouldn't trust anything but the funny pages there.
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Jesse Ventura was great, I agree. I liked when he limited welfare to 2 years. When a welfare women asked how come the state wouldn't pay for her college education. He basically told her you made a mistake Minnesota helped you get back on your feet for two years, get a job, and educate yourself like all other working people. Lot of scammers left the state and moved to more liberal (probably broke states in deficit now).I saw him on Hardball both parties looked like the true drones he nailed each question by party. I also liked when he told them it takes Democrats and Republican what takes them six months to decide, Ventura does in roughly two days. I think he fits well with what the Framers of the Constitution envisioned.
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"Obama doesn't need to show up anywhere in particular. The American people are now more behind him than ever before." Foxtrottango1
Yeah Sieg Heil, what next annex Afghanistan. Get the troops out of Afghanistan. Senator Kerry even said it was a mistake, he would do things differently. So is Kerry wearing blue? I think not.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Actually Ventura was better in Predator, that one had two governors in it. But only one survived, an is still governor. Imagine.
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"Apparently Mr. Webb misses the point of a democracy. What the voters want is what we should get. Of course those of us who are satisfied with our health care should be allowed to keep it. Mr. Webb presents us Americans as idiots who are just too stupid to know what is good for us, so we need a Messiah to come to our rescue. I'm sorry, sir. Consider the idea that many of us have looked at the facts and have decided that we don't want the kind of change (accompanied by massive debt, tax, and price increases) that is being offered."
At 01:07am on 01 Jul 2009, cjenkin wrote:
Justin! If you really need your moat dredged in the interest of Anglo/American relations, I will help, anything to help out the British taxpayer. But I have to agree with cjenkin. Sorry ole bean, or should I say have a nice day..
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Re 52
And Preditor actually had one member of the Kennedy Clan in it.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
joepinapples:
Have you even been to the United States?
I've driven across this great nation a few times and I know how very different the states and their people are.
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Okay too much caffine, I am out of here.
"Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide." John Adams
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Justin, just because we have wasted over $2T in a crusade in Iraq, and sacrificed over 4,000 young Americans in that misadventure, doesn't mean we are suddenly willing to spend $1.6T over 10 years making healthcare available to all our citizens. Let's face it, there are priorities to consider and compassion ranks pretty low among them.
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"In the six months since Obama took office, he's broken a lot of campaign
pledges. Was he simply a naive inexperience politician far out of his depth or a
cynical one lying by saying whatever he thought it would take to get
elected...or both?
From where I sit it appears that the economy is getting worse, taxes are likely
to go up, the middle class will foot the increased tax burden, the most pressing
foreign policy issues of North Korea and Iran are getting worse and nothing
seems to be moving in the right direction. It's about what I expected all
along." MarcusAureliusII
Bravo! I must be in the same row as you, because the others can't see past the pole with the bumperstick on it that reads OBAMA HOPE AND CHANGE. But in really small print read How Can You Tell WHen a Politician is Lying Obama's lips are
moving.
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39 WELLHELLO.
Welcome to the advanced debate on global warming. The reason the name changed was because some people had a problem understanding that GLOBAL climate temperature increases may lead to problems on a local level that do not seem to reflect that. Even though the problems are being exacerbated by a small temperature increase the problems resulting from those increases is felt by many to be easier to see.
or not.
cjenkins and donk e have said enough to finish the post really. Well said to them two.
Grey squirrel, an invasive species if ever there was one. Yes,and though they do have their differences as all nations do ,they are a mix of people from many states. That leads to a blending that though sometimes pleasant is still pretty uniform . Certain cities do have more of an individual identity but that is mainly in the accents..
or I could have been winding you up.
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Which Kennedy?
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"Justin, just because we have wasted over $2T in a crusade in Iraq, and sacrificed over 4,000 young Americans in that misadventure, doesn't mean we are suddenly willing to spend $1.6T over 10 years making healthcare available to all our citizens. Let's face it, there are priorities to consider and compassion ranks pretty low among them." Saint Dom
For once I agree, we wasted too much in Iraq, we should have leveled Sadaam an left. Now how much will we waste on Obama's war in Afghanistan???? 8 years some money must have been spent there, and now with Obama omitting it from this years budget, not to mention the lives of those in Afghanistan. But under Obama that is okay????? Get the US out. Like Kerry said use special ops, like in the case of the Somalian pirates. Unless Napalitano is nervous of having too many of our soldiers in the country because of the threat of returning veterans......
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36:
I beg to differ; In the US, Federalism and history has resulted in an interesting patchwork of unique regions, states, and locals that make a cross country drive an unforgetable experience in variety.
Americans in general put tremendous value in the Federal aspect of our Republic and tend to be very skeptical of the need for the expansion of the Federal government.
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"In the past, I never got much support, but I think it's the financial crisis obviously that's drawing so much attention to it, and people want to know more about the Federal Reserve," Paul told FOXNews.com.
"With the Federal Reserve holding interest rates at rock-bottom levels, pumping trillions into the economy and now poised to have new powers to oversee the financial system under President Obama's proposed regulatory overhaul, Paul said lawmakers want transparency.
"If they give them a lot more power and there's no more transparency, that'll be a disaster," he said.
The bill would call for the comptroller general in the Government Accountability Office to audit the Fed and report those findings to Congress. The GAO's ability to conduct such audits now is severely restricted.
A slew of top Republicans are backing the bill, as are many Democrats.
"Ron Paul has the right idea on this," said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., who supports similar legislation in the Senate. "I'm just hoping we can get a clear audit. ... We need to know what they're up to."
House Republican Leader John Boehner, who signed on as a co-sponsor this month, wrote in a recent blog post that the "lack of transparency and accountability" regarding federal dollars committed by the Fed and Treasury Department raise "serious concerns" and make an audit critical.
"The Federal Reserve Transparency Act would remove all of these restrictions, and allow GAO to get real answers from the Federal Reserve to protect American taxpayers," Boehner wrote.
Unfortunately for Paul, the bill appears to be idling in the House Financial Services Committee, which is chaired by Barney Frank, D-Mass. The bill has been sitting there, gathering co-sponsors, since Paul introduced it in late February." From Fox news currently breaking news.
Atta boy, Barney hold up a good idea, try to kill it in Committee. Way to go Ron Paul.....
"And to peserve their independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our election between economy and libery, or profusion and servitude." Thomas Jefferson
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Ya, you Cajun devil with the onnnnions in the gumbo. While I have a brew, quahog, while fishing for tautog, and finish with a cold frap. Yeah we are all the same. Is my order of fish and chips ready, my Caaah is double parked. An you cawn't get theahhre from heahher. Flatlander.
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65 yep that's about it.
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""You've kind of got to rely on the Democratic leadership (to move the bill along)," a Boehner aide said. "I haven't heard a lot of support from Chairman Frank."
Calls to Frank's office were not returned." Fox news currently breaking news.
Hello, is there anybody! Out there!
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Well maybe the moderator will let the extract from the news go in...Freedom of ideas to flow. "A mind is like a parachute, it only functions when open." I don't know who said it...sorry.
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27. At 4:44pm on 30 Jun 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#18. KScurmudgeon: Ref California: "I did grow up out there . ."
" . . and left as soon as I was able."
'I might ask why you found California so awful that you felt compelled to leave as soon as you were able? And if it is so bad, why does your brother stay? Clearly it is not quite as bad as you suggest.'
We were living in Santa Monica and working in Marina del Rey - my employees were half from the Marina, half from Venice - then poor and seedy. My wife and I were married, of opposite sexes, she was pregnant and we were happy about it. We ate meals together daily and not in front of the TV. None of the young employees, rich or poor, had ever known people like that. "Wow. That's wierd - like Ozzie and Harriet?" I am not lying. We knew it was not the place to raise our daughter. I was originally from Iowa, my wife from Oklahoma, and we knew better. I didn't go back for 15 years.
My brother was in New York at the time, so when I left none of us remained in the place where we had grown to adulthood. He went back to LA a few years later to rejoin his Zen master, a Jewish mathematician named Bernie Glassman. He fit in better than I did. Of six siblings, he is the only one there now.
In my experience there are many good and decent people in LA, but they are like an underground - out of sight. The surface belongs to the 'larger than life'. Your point, that I may not know what I am talking about, is well taken, however.
Yours,
KScurmudgeon
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41. At 11:46pm on 30 Jun 2009, AmericanSportFan wrote:
'Well things just got a little easier for President Obama. The Minnesota Supreme court has just ruled that Stuart Smalley (aka Al Franken) won last Novembers Senatorial election'
42. At 11:53pm on 30 Jun 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
'Remember Minnesota elected Jessie the Body as govenor.'
Those folks in Minnesota have a great sense of humor - They must know what politics is all about - an amusing distraction at the end of a day's reality.
Now in California they are dead serious about choosing representative leaders. (Never been to Minnesota - are these guys representative of them?)
KScurmudgeon, curmudgeonly
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32. At 6:04pm on 30 Jun 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
KS #18 "It was fun while it lasted - the stuff of legend."
'... California is a civilization all its own. ...It lives in a true fantasy world of its own making and refuses to be constrained by the facts of reality. That is why it is so much fun, the stuff dreams are made of, and why it got itself into the kind of trouble it's in now.'
Wow - you said it better than I could. And you can write in ways that I can read. Glad to know you.
KScurmudgeon
a long way from Huntington Beach
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65:
Mercy me, I do believe you to be a yankee with thuh Quahogs in thuh clam chowder. While I've a bourbon, jum-buh-LIE-uh, while fishin for catfish, and finish with a cold Coke. Yeah we're thuh same. Thank ya for bring me my order of coffee and beignets, Ms, I left my car on thuh neutral ground. And I an't gonna let it get towed. Northerner.
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70:
Al Franken is key to keeping the Reps. in the Senate from easily stalling the Cap and Trade bill because Al makes 60 Dems, so Harry Reid will rush him into the Senate before the bill comes to the floor for discussion and possible filibuster.
Given the Dem's razor-thin majority in the Senate, this extra yay vote is a game changer.
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"In my experience there are many good and decent people in LA, but they are like an underground - out of sight"
I would change this only in replacing LA with USA.
You say LA I say USA bit the same really.Good people hiding.
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I suspect you are not a real american grizzly. you forgot YEEhaw
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75:
The only two individuals that I've ever heard using that phrase are Sandy in "Spongebob Squarepants" and the Cowboy riding The Bomb in "Doctor Strangelove". I think it's reasonably safe to say that AmericanGrizzly would have no reason to use that phrase save for when taunting someone from Texas.
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#69. KScurmudgeon: "We ate meals together daily and not in front of the TV. None of the young employees, rich or poor, had ever known people like that. " . . . We knew it was not the place to raise our daughter."
That seems a very slender reason for moving from one state to another; couldn't you have moved to another town other than Santa Monica? There are areas where people eat at table, chew with their mouths closed and, most surprisingly, know how to use a knife and fork. (The latter is every bit as important as eating at table.) I wonder if your daughter, presumably now grown, eats as she did as a child or in front of the TV? Not all parental guidance is accepted by the offspring. Your move might have been for naught!
Methinks that rather than table formality, perhaps you did not approve of the supposed permissiveness of the times, then or now, since you make it unnecessarily clear that your marriage is heterosexual.
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MA2 ref 32.
"A body builder from Austria could later become a movie star in hollywood and could even become the governor of the state,tell me somewhere else in the world where that could happen".
Get in line buster,In the Uk we have a second rate actor running the whole oountry,with his supporting wannabies.Only in the UK!!!
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78 ukwales
Did you say second-rate actor running the whole country? Ummm, we did it first, three decades ago- remember Mr. Reagan?
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74 joepinapples
You really ought to come for a visit. Despite the evidence of sites like this, the misanthropes are really rather few and far between. Even in more conservative (or arch-conservative) areas, the majority are friendly, decent, and civil.
Please do not take the example of the few stereotypically loud, brash voices that are threatening to overrun this site as representative of the whole.
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I think it is a little harsh to blame Obama totally when congress actually hamstring the big ideas to make inferior laws.
that said I believe he should be way more aggressive in his policy stance and in explaining simply to the electorate the simple reasons they would be better off in the long run as a society if his proposed reforms were passed.
Somebody posted earlier that it would be a crying shame if this golden opportunity for reform was missed due to the sordid business of politics and lobby groups.
Lets see some backbone from the White house, and lets see congress look beyond the next election ..... sorry, I was off in LA LA land again. Silly me.
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81. At 11:11am on 01 Jul 2009, RomeStu wrote:
"Somebody posted earlier that it would be a crying shame if this golden opportunity for reform was missed due to the sordid business of politics and lobby groups.
Lets see some backbone from the White house, and lets see congress look beyond the next election ..... sorry, I was off in LA LA land again. Silly me."
Me too. I suppose somebody must be telling Obama "They--the electorate--won't wear any really big changes, so just leave it or a) you won't get more Democrats elected next time to get anything better through, or b} you won't get a second term."
It still doesn't make much sense to me, though. If a president is elected by a majority, shouldn't the Congress at least respect that and not basically do a demolition job on his proposals? I can see lots of checks, but not much balance. It looks to me as though on both health care and climate change, virtually nothing is going to change to any real effect, except it will cost another couple of trillion dollars.
But then, I'm used to political parties that have programmes that their members are supposed to sign up to.
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So California now takes its place in the emperor's pantheon of 'failed states to loathe' . . .I must have missed Arnie starting the accession negotiations to the EU somehow. Or signing the Act of Union to make up the "United Kingdom of Great Britain, Northern Ireland and. . .California"?
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Ref 81, Rome
"...that said I believe he should be way more aggressive in his policy stance and in explaining simply to the electorate the simple reasons they would be better off in the long run as a society if his proposed reforms were passed."
I am very disappointed with the hands off approach that President Obama has taken on the healthcare reform. A few appearances reminding us that 46 million Americans don't have health insurance, that our current system is expensive, and that those who already have insurance can keep it if they wish is not going to do the trick. He and his surrogates have to do a better job at explaining how the new program will work, how the program would benefit all Americans, and it impact on our business community. Most importantly, he has to explain how we are going to pay for it. Suggesting that technical efficiency will finance such a large program is disingenous.
I am not suggesting that Obama should do a Carter-like presentation full of graphs and detailed explanations of every bit of minutiae, but he has to do a better job in providing high level details and must speak to a broad audience rather than a few townhall meetings.
Bipartisan consensus would be ideal, but if the Republicans continue to champion the mantra of the insurance industry, dump them and vote along party lines. I expect 3 or 4 moderate Republicans to vote for the bill anyway.
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I used to live in California (Barstow, Mojave Desert) in the 1970s when Proposition 13 passed. The state has been in a steadt decline since then. You can not reduce revenues and increase expenditures and expect to remain solvent forever.
Although that premise exists at a national level, it is not as pronounced in most states where statutes prohibit deficit spending. Saddly, low taxes and promising everything under the sky is one of the litmus tests to be elected President, along with a staunch anti-abortion stand, opposition to gay marriage and, as a minimum, ambivalence to immigration rights. A bit of fearmongering often helps...
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Ref 62, American
"But under Obama that is okay?????"
Nope, it is not OK. As I have said on numerous occasions in the past, we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately. We should locate and deal with the Al Qaeda leaders using spies and a rapid deployment force or Predators. We should not risk a single life in those countries and should not spend a dime fixing what we destroyed or helping others solve their problems. Our money should be invested at home in projects such as healthcare, education, infrastructure, and improving our industrial capabilities.
Building solar panels and windmills is not a bad idea, but it will not replace the hundreds of thousands of jobs we have lost as our plants are closed or moved overseas to improve the corporate bottom line, with absolute disregard of the welfare of our people. The idea that displaced factory workers could be retrained to perform the high tech jobs that are being proposed to achieve energy independence and satisfy the many vacancies we have in our medical sector is naive. I wonder how many of its proponents will volunteer to have a lobotomy performed by a former UAW member who just got a crash course in brain surgery.
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I heard an interview of Mario Cuomo last weekend. The former Governor of New York State was at one time spoken about as a serious possible candidate for President. He crashed his political ship on the rocks of the death penalty issue, making it a major issue in his campaign for re-election as governor despite knowing (and admitting) that 80% of the electorate vehemently disagreed with him and supported the death penalty. He was so out of tune, he referred to solar panels in his interview as "plates" saying that we should create lots of jobs manufacturing these plates. He's an ardent supporter of President Obama.
The problem with putting someone up on a very high pedistal is that people try desperately to keep him propped up when he falters even though it's difficult to do with such a high center of gravity and so out of reach. When their unreasonable and unrealistic expectations are not met, he eventually comes crashing down as a fallen idol with a very big thud, usually shattering into thousands of pieces. Obama is only human like the rest of us. Whether he and his party will be re-elected will depend entirely on how well things are going and how people feel about the economy, their security, and life in general when the next election comes in 2010. Yesterday, the Consumer Confidence Index, a very important financial indictor (I think tallied by the University of Michigan) dropped by a whopping 5 points since May. This is a very ominious sign for Obama and the Democrats no matter how you think the Republican party is dead (it's been dead before more than once and come back.) In reality, although Obama is clearly a smart man (much smarter than his European counterparts) he's taken on enormous problems and implied promises that are probably impossible to keep. (Political pundits who support him are already making excuses about why he will have to break his campaign promise about not raising taxes on the middle class, a suicidal strategy if he tries it as the first President Bush found out the hard way.) I'm not saying the more experienced John McCain would be doing any better though, and maybe not much different either. For better or worse, Obama now owns the problems of the economy and foreign policy.
BTW, Gordon Brown was not a actor. He was a gray, gray, gray, grayer than gray bean counter. As Britain's bean counter in chief, he was in part responsible for the very financial mess he is supposed to be digging Britain out of as Prime Minister. Last fall by taking direct ownership of the banks (bought up common shares instead of preferred as in the US), he was hailed around the world as some sort of financial genius...until it was clear it wouldn't work. The main excuse they all use when they fail is that if it hadn't been done their way when they did it (whatever it was), things would be even worse. You can only skate by on the Tony Blair excuse that the mess was all the fault of "the party opposite" and it will take time to clean it up for so long. Blair used that line for ten years but I think it won't be much longer before Obama will be laughed at if he continues to use it himself. For better or worse, he said he could fix it all and now he will have to prove it.
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Via media.
Thankyou for the charitable invite.
Earlier I pointed out there are exceptions.
Am I the only one making generalisations here?Did I not see that all californians are crazy ish sort of comment.
That "all Californians want but don't want to pay"
That sounds like all America.
While you are all generalising I though I would or is it a mutually exclusive club for America.
Still If I were you I would not worry about my opinion of America.
Everyone like to point to differences when it is convenient and similarities when that is convenient.
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How about this?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/01/opinion/01friedman.html?_r=1
But why weren't people saying this years ago? It can't all just be because of this lobby or that lobby. Nobody ever elected 'big coal', did they?
I like the idea of a 'million kid march'. So what are the chances? Anybody?
You know, people are just going to have to accept you have to pay up. In a way we've been coerced in Europe by high energy prices, so we have to take more care. But most recognise that in the end it's good for us. No point in having your energy on the cheap if you end up on a planet you can't use it on any more.
Maybe some people should have a look at this:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climatechange/guide/keyfacts/google.html
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#79. Via-Media: "Did you say second-rate actor running the whole country? Ummm, we did it first, three decades ago- remember Mr. Reagan?"
Actually, Ronald Reagan became a first tier Warner Bros star, married and divorced another and then wed a second, charitably described as a starlet. His communication skills were second to none, quite possibly better than those of President Obama. I never cared for his policies, but dismissing him as a second rate actor is inaccurate. And California elected him Governor in 1967 so, unlike the present incumbent, he did have practical experience in government long before he became President.
#87. MarcusAureliusII: "by (Gordon Brown) taking direct ownership of the banks . . ."
You write as if the entire British banking industry was nationalised when that is just not so!
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89 Squirrelist.
Those Americans have been universally ignorant and determined to bury their heads in the sand. The California legislature tried to introduce zero emmision cars years ago.The people of America (including california )got in the way.
The universal disregard for science is not really as regional as people like to make out.
The whole of America balks togeather at fuel prices as they squander what they have.
Individuals try. but as a nation state to state. they are the same.
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SaintDominick #85: '"Saddly, low taxes and promising everything under the sky is one of the litmus tests to be elected President, along with a staunch anti-abortion stand, opposition to gay marriage and, as a minimum, ambivalence to immigration rights. A bit of fearmongering often helps..."
Yeah, for a Republican candidate (with the exception of taxes because noone wants to hear '"Elect me and I'll raise your taxes to help pay for essential government services" no matter how desperitly needed said services are) and gay marriage (because up until now, the majority of Americans were at best sceptical of the idea, so even Democratic candidates, such as Obama, could only go so far as to publicly support equal rights for gays.) But now that the public's mood is changing, and now that the Republicans have been handed a crushing defeat, one can only hope that in the future the Republican party will extracate itself from the chains of the religious right and at least support equality among gays and streights, and that the Democrats will come out in full, firm, and unequivocal support for gays' rights to marry.
Now I'm off in la la land again. This cite must have a magic vortex on it or something!
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SaintDominick #86: '"As I have said on numerous occasions in the past, we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately. We should locate and deal with the Al Qaeda leaders using spies and a rapid deployment force or Predators. We should not risk a single life in those countries and should not spend a dime fixing what we destroyed or helping others solve their problems. Our money should be invested at home in projects such as healthcare, education, infrastructure, and improving our industrial capabilities."
Oh if only that were possible! But you have to be realistic about this. Obviously anyone with even the slightest hint of rationality in them can plainly see that we should have never gone into Iraq, and that Iraq was the biggest foreign policy mistake we have made since Vietnam. But Afghanistan was totally justifyed, and besides, even if it weren't. We invaded their countries! We displaced hundreds upon thousands of civilians and killed thousands more. The least we can do is help them get back to some sense of normalcy. Its only fair! And I'm pretty sure its required in the Jineva conventions. Now if all we do is screw things up more, and if the occupyed power wants us out, then by all means we should leave immediately without hesitation and never look back!! But we should at least make an attempt at fixing what we had broken.
As regards Obama not including Afghanistan in this year's budget. I am in total agreement with you!!! Any Brits out there, can you tell me if your government has lied and/or deliberately omited any costs in your country's yearly budget? Does anyone know if any other countries do or have done this? Or are we the only ones? Disgraceful!!
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Canard;
"#87. MarcusAureliusII: "by (Gordon Brown) taking direct ownership of the banks . . ."
You write as if the entire British banking industry was nationalised when that is just not so!"
True, he only bought the largest most badly failed ones. No sense in throwing good money after good when you can throw it after bad. After all, isn't that what bean counters do for their clients, take on impossible liabilities for them they don't want and would never invest in themselves? A sheer financial genius this Gordon Brown. That's what everyone said last fall when he did it.
Pineapple;
"The California legislature tried to introduce zero emmision cars years ago.The people of America (including california )got in the way."
I guess they got in the way in Europe too. I don't recall hearing anything about zero emissions cars being mandated there either? When the press pointed out the fact that the leaders of the EU were driving around in the most polluting cars available on the market a few years ago, those leaders told the press to mind their own business and that was their personal affair. Do as I say, not as I do is Europe's motto. Europe is the very definition of hypocricy. The Maastrict growth and stability pact, Kyoto, the war in Afghanistan are all examples of Europeans saying they were going to do something and then doing exactly the opposite without so much as an apology.
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squirrilist #82: '"It still doesn't make much sense to me, though. If a president is elected by a majority, shouldn't the Congress at least respect that and not basically do a demolition job on his proposals?"
Yes. But this is America we're talking about here. We only do the right thing after trying every other conceivable alternative as a wise British prime minister once said, and that unfortunate fact doesn't appear to be changing any time soon to me. The funny thing is, that with the necessary checks and balances firmly already in place do to our constitution, and that as such party members are free to vote with their concience as aposed to along party lines a lot more, the Republicans could be mature for once and "put the country first" as they had promised to do when campaigning last year. But the prospect of scoring cheap selfish political points is just simply far too irresistable, so they continue down the same destructive path that they've been on, dragging everybody else down with them.
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jopeinapples #91: '"The California legislature tried to introduce zero emmision cars years ago.The people of America (including california )got in the way. The universal disregard for science is not really as regional as people like to make out. The whole of America balks together at fuel prices as they squander what they have."
Well people are beginning to see the light, ever so slowly. But you're right. In my opinion the United States of America is the most flawed, sinful, and selfish country in the developed world, for so many reasons of which I can't get into now. But health care and climate change/global warming are but two.
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Good point MArcus.
The euro rich do behave like americans.One trip to the US and all wealthy think they should have some of that.
But the average european was not able to afford it.(not that the Tax payer can afford to pay 10 MPG costs for maintaining that luxuary.
But they still use considerably less enery per person t han the USA so the US has to make MORE of an effort because when it comes down to it it is they americans that used the greatest percentage of the resources up and created the graetest amount of pollution. So much was produced By the US while they screamed NO NO It's not hapening alone that that amount would not equall the total in the european union.
but great point the rich take the mickey as usual.
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No rash decision, thanks for not chewing my head off.The republicans are strange . all before the elections they complained about democrats being obstructive.They seem to be the ones now. They answer with well we =wanted to/..... stop gays having a life etc.Now when the democrats are trying to fix the screw ups they are not willing to help.
Willing to make the mess and enjoy the party but when the clean up comes they suddenly have somewhere else to be.
Glad to see some of the underground here.
good luck and don't stare into the light I hear it causes blindness.
Let it illuminate all your world. Have a good day to you.
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I wish to write some words in defense of California.
It is a large state with a very diverse population. I lived for a time in the Northern area near Donner Pass. People there are very different from those in other parts of California. Many I knew were passionate environmentalists and social activists more than 40 years before it became the 'soup de jour' to fashionably care about such issues.
I do not understand the etiology of all the current problems in California but I do believe it is unfair to lump the people of that state in to a category of 'everyone there wants something for nothing' because I am sure that there are many willing to pay a FAIR share for the services necessary to keep their state both functional and solvent.
I will say further that I dislike generalizations. 'Everyone' is a faceless and unreal entity with no real validity. I have a certain level of faith that the people of California will resolve their problems in a positive way. Perhaps this is an overly optimistic faith but then I am ever a hopeful person.
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I mean no disrespect, but the complex relationship between Congress and the President can be confusing to those of you who are used to Unitarian parliamentary systems of government; you can not expect even a Congress full of Dems to timely pass all the legislation that Pres. Obama wants. And like other presidents before him, he is also bound to have some major legislative defeats by the end of his term.
The President sets the agenda and Congress gets to decide how or even if this agenda will be achieved. A President must also remember that Congress in general does not like being dictated to.
By giving Congress legislative goals rather than pre-written bills that would likely be picked apart like Clinton's 90s healthcare proposal, Obama ensures that he remains in the good graces of a Congress that likes its independence. How does Obama benefit from this arrangement? He gets his legislation passed more often, he gets the credit for the passage of good legislation, and doesn't get the blame for bad legislation.
It's ironic that in an era of big government and increased Presidential power we may be witnessing the return of Congressional dominance, something that tends to cyclically change in intensity.
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Well said Aquarizonagal,
Many missed the point of my post where I said america was all the same and have been trying to prove my comment right,it seems. I added a ",maybe I'm winding you up" and another post to point out that my comment about america is as valid as the comment on California.
The only state that tried to do something about the environment.
One of only a few that see that plastics can be poisonous .
And that a certain plant should be allowed to be consumed by the locals if they wish. A very progressive state.
Others follow where California leads.Often.We hope.
Jeffesonians Unite
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99 Further you are one of the few that dares to stand up for the Golden State.It seems strange that so many were ready to jump on it for trying. And being the bread earner for the US for many years.
Funding the wars by having an economy that was the 7 biggest in the world.
Either way people move around. There are nice people everywhere in every state .
Have a restful day and keep out of the sun, and do have some fun.
Thanks for noticing that bigotry comes in many forms.
seeing as I will not be posting for some time I would like to end this post just to reiterate by saying I do see the differences in individual Americans as is seen by so many different views here.
You have made my point in a clearer fashion.
Not all just said "no we are not the same"
some proved it by defending California.
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The BBC has reported /
An ancient & prehistoric blood sucking creature found in the river Thames,
Most probably an MP cooling off.
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To#100 Bienvenueenlouisiana
Very well stated!
I will add that some Americans really do not understand the concepts that you have outlined so well.
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To#103 Ukwales
Could some of our congress be lurking there also?
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#103 UKwales.
I'll would rather take my chances with the "Thames River blood sucking creature" than most of the Neo-cons fundamentalist in the USA.
Many of these individuals seem to have surfaced from the ashes of the Dark Ages.
Does one need to mention names?
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#90, David.
Come on, David, admit it. The just too "luv'ble" mischievous Irish Leprechaun, Ronald Reagan, was not only a second rated actor, but a third one. And like most lawyers in Congress who can't compete or measure up in the private sector become career politicians instead.
Reagan became a Governor, than a President selling his soul along the way to big time dysfunctional and corrupted corporations, specifically in the armament industry.
But you could say the best acting job the "luv'ble" Ronald Reagan did was in the White House as President, or he didn't know where he was at, for that matter.
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#102 JP
Hey Joe, California is like any other place in the world. You find the nice ones and the nasty ones. It only takes a nasty one to profile the rest of the state. I, for one, haven't met a nice one yet in and outside of California. The nasty ones seem to be leaving in droves to the other parts of US. Most of them are surprised to see the goodness and the politeness they meet outside their turfs.
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#107. foxtrottango1: "Come on, David, admit it. The just too "luv'ble" mischievous Irish Leprechaun, Ronald Reagan, was not only a second rated actor, but a third one."
I can't agree; Jack Warner was a very hard taskmaster and he wouldn't have retained Reagan's services had he thought he was second or third rate. It's easy to denigrate performers long after they have left the profession (or in US speak, "the Industry") but the reality is that Reagan was more than capable. I don't think Bette Davis would have countenanced a third-rater to play opposite her.
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# 109, David.
"It's easy to denigrate the performers long after they left the profession."
Should we forget what Adope Hitler did "long after he left the profession?"
Ronald Reagan's did some horrible things in Latin America supporting his right wing ideology. I don't think they will ever forget it.
It all comes to this, David, just let the cards fall where they may and let History sort it out.
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@82 (Squirrelest) "If a president is elected by a majority, shouldn't the Congress at least respect that and not basically do a demolition job on his proposals?"
Apparently you never watched Congress gleefully declare every one of Reagan's budgets "dead on arrival" in the House.
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#105
Aqua,
Only the ones with English Mistresses.
Hang, them would be Governors. Or Guv'ners in London speak.
Cockney Sam
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All,
It is interesting to note that the latest group to hate are 'bean counters', by which one has to assume we are to infer accountants or perhaps finance folks.
It should be noted that:
- Bean counters is a derogatory term usually applied to accountants. Corporate finance is an entirely different discipline. Finance folks look down on bean counters
- Bean counters do not make investment decisions. Management do, under oversight from the boards. Bean counters count the beans
Gordon Brown is neither a bean counter nor a trained finance chap. His qualifications are in History
- As an aside, consumer confidence is a lagging economic indicator. Using it to try to predict future, vs past, economic performance is a little confused. Or simply wrong. Economists use leading indicators to predict future performance. Hence why they are called 'leading'.
All of which is to say Marcus seems to be 100% factually wrong. Again. Solid form. It's nice to pop in and see some things don't change. And we have to wonder if he was undertipped by an accountant recently. Or turned down for a book keeping job somewhere.
Poor Marcus.
Bean Counter Sam
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
ST68 1/2
"Bean counters is a derogatory term usually applied to accountants. Corporate finance is an entirely different discipline. Finance folks look down on bean counters"
Having dealt with both for a lifetime there is a difference. Bean counters are the minor leaguers whose specialty is knowing whether a number goes in the asset or debit column. Whether those numbers are right or wrong is another matter entirely, that's not their department. But with the miracle of modern computers they can add up a column of figures and get the right sum...most of the time.
Corporate finance people, government finance people including regulators, investment bankers, investment analysts, and other assorted biggies are in a different world. They are the ones who blew away everything that was put in place from the lesson of the great depression of the 1930s to GUARANTEE that it had to happen again. And they've done such a good job at it that the accountants cannot figure out how many tens or hundreds of trillions of dollars under water we are because their computers don't have numbers that big.
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#110. foxtrottango1: "# 109, David.
"It's easy to denigrate the performers long after they left the profession."
Should we forget what Adope Hitler did "long after he left the profession?"
Adolf Hitler was a paperhanger and sometime artist; to my knowledge he was never a contract player for a German film studio. In Britain the entertainment business is known by its members as "the profession" or "the business" and in the US, the motion picture and television aspects are called "the Industry." The post at #79 asked "Did you say second-rate actor running the whole country? Ummm, we did it first, three decades ago- remember Mr. Reagan?" The poster implicitly criticised President Reagan's ability in his former occupation, to which I responded. There can be no comparison, professionally or politically, between the two men.
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112. At 11:37pm on 01 Jul 2009, SamTyler1969 wrote:
#105
Aqua, Only the ones with English Mistresses.
Hang, them would be Governors. Or Guv'ners in London speak.
Cockney Sam
It was a lamprey. I checked. Horrible ugly fat snakelike thing with a big mouth and a lot of teeth. Ugh. Imagine eating jellied lamprey dahn the east end.
Ah. Yes. Well. Looking at that description again, I could be wrong about it being a lamprey . .
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So where is OBama? Is he the Manchurian Candidate?
Well don't worry with Al Franken. Air America
bombed out. Maybe we are better off with Obama when he is not around to make errr, something like a ..... what is it plan? Oh, lie.
Lastly, Jimmy Carter started the deficit, Reagan with a Democrats tripled it,
George Bush doubled Reagans. Clinton with Republicans balanced a budget, horrors of Ross Perot! So maybe a balance is a good thing? But Sotomayor uses racist based decisions discarding merit in my book. That balance could help with the sovereignty issue............"The future's uncertain and the end is always near." Jim Morrison good tune. Just
watch out for the TechoFascistLiberals/Conservatives of both parties. And bring the boys home from Afghanistan. Iraq will spark back up to tribalism, just do the right Politician deal, declare victory, peace with honor, bail the hell out of there and watch it implode. Then look at what blood and money it cost, an say never again. Read Johnny Get Your Gun, by Dalton Trumbo....
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"Nope, it is not OK. As I have said on numerous occasions in the past, we should get out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately. We should locate and deal with the Al Qaeda leaders using spies and a rapid deployment force or Predators. We should not risk a single life in those countries and should not spend a dime fixing what we destroyed or helping others solve their problems. Our money should be invested at home in projects such as healthcare, education, infrastructure, and improving our industrial capabilities." Saint DOm
Okay, I am in partial agreement there. Just add illegal immigration, how is it that they want to jump the line ahead of legal immigrants? So 60% come from Central and South America, why not let in an equal number from all the world, how does anyone illegal get preference?
Also this 45 million uninsured, 11 million of those are illegal with children that burden the system, plus do they count the ones that don't chose to have healthcare believe it or not, some don't.
I heard 16 states just asked the US Federal government to bail them out...State sovereignty is looking better, fix your own roads, take care of your own state problems, take the power back from the Feds if done right. Hand it back to the people.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
In defense of, and on behalf of, California I would say "I am a chunk of land, I don't give a rats behind what you think. Stop polluting me. Eventually I will erode into the sea and foil you all."
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77. At 08:01am on 01 Jul 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#69. KScurmudgeon: "We ate meals together daily and not in front of the TV. None of the young employees, rich or poor, had ever known people like that. " . . . We knew it was not the place to raise our daughter."
"That seems a very slender reason for moving from one state to another; couldn't you have moved to another town other than Santa Monica? There are areas where people eat at table, chew with their mouths closed and, most surprisingly, know how to use a knife and fork. (The latter is every bit as important as eating at table.) I wonder if your daughter, presumably now grown, eats as she did as a child or in front of the TV? Not all parental guidance is accepted by the offspring. Your move might have been for naught!
Methinks that rather than table formality, perhaps you did not approve of the supposed permissiveness of the times, then or now, since you make it unnecessarily clear that your marriage is heterosexual."
First since we are examining implications, my wife and I both had worked for years in the Hollywood district of LA, with folks of all sorts and every imaginable sexuality and got on well with all of them. My point was that they were at least as amazed at us as we were at them. I mentioned we were hetero to make the point that marriage was seldom practiced among the young heteros we knew - and yes, we were then also young. I wonder what you can mean by 'supposed' permissiveness'? Surely there is no question that in that time and place (LA, early '70's) permissiveness was the rule and the popular objective.
If there was a lapse from the traditional family values we wanted to live, it was our fault and not our children's. Today my daughter has two beautiful children, a good man for her husband, and yes, they regularly eat at table where the Television cannot watch them. Grandpa and granddaughter read Mallory's Morte d'Arthur together in ME over the telephone, every Monday evening.
As I have said, there are countless decent, traditional-values people in California, and many quiet communities to live in. But that was what we wanted and were looking for - and at the time none of our families (another traditional value) were closer than Kansas.
now the
KScurmudgeon
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99. At 5:39pm on 01 Jul 2009, aquarizonagal wrote:
'I wish to write some words in defense of California.....
I will say further that I dislike generalizations. 'Everyone' is a faceless and unreal entity with no real validity.'
With respect for a good post, I wish to write in defense of generalizations.
'Everyone' introduces the face of the crowd, some one or two useful characteristics that typify an otherwise difficult to describe heterogeny. Without such generalizations very little that is meaningful can be identified, discussed, or understood. Although I am a balding, paunchy white male, I am scarcely a typical American, Kansan, or human, except in such very general terms. Any presumption that balding white males are the typical American would be roundly denounced today, I can assure you, and the suggestion that we are all alike would probably be vigorously refuted by those of us who most fit the description.
The better you know me, the less typical I appear and yet, I hope, the more human I appear. So I understand your point and agree with it's truth, but like lawyereese (comes another generalization), I think it is accurate but useless.
We must generalize if we are to understand and deal with large numbers of anything. By saying 'Everyone in California wants it all,' I was pointing to the simple obvious consequences of their collective recent political activity - willing to give up nothing yet not willing to pay the cost of their expectations. The words 'their' in the last sentence are accurately used - they refer to Californians as a whole. Certainly it is not true of each, but it is evidently true of 'them'.
KScurmudgeon,
respector of the bell curve
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Shirwa Ahmed of Minneapolis blew himself up in Somilia, killing people there in 2008. This is the first American born suicide bomber confirmed by the FBI. One can only wonder when these terrorist acts of suicide bombing will begin here in the US by homegrown terrorists.
In the news broadcast today, two more school holiday have been added to New York schools to satisfy the 12% Muslim population there. Must be the AL Noor school or maybe public I don't know has anyone else caught all this story? I
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#122. KScurmudgeon: "I wonder what you can mean by 'supposed' permissiveness'? Surely there is no question that in that time and place (LA, early '70's) permissiveness was the rule and the popular objective."
Greatly overstated I think; there was no shortage of conventional marriage. Not everyone in Hollywood (the geographic area or the mythical Capital of Entertainment) was a hippie/free love enthusiast - the "summer of love" was in 1967 and things had quietened down by the time the Bicentennial rolled around. San Francisco was the spiritual home of such folk, although it was the British DJ "Lord" Tim Hudson (on KFWB) in Los Angeles who coined the phrase "flower children" to describe the characters I think you mean. And also, not mentioned in the media, the driving force behind Sky Saxon (a rock singer possibly unknown to you) who died last week.
I believe you could have raised your children to respect the values to which you ascribe and admire just as well in Los Angeles as well as anywhere else - surely it is parental example which moulds a child, not the general environment? There were and are many fine synagogues and churches for spiritual nourishment, cultural events and so much more. I just find it strange that someone would move far away because of the behaviour of those on the street but, like Lionel Hardcastle in the British TV series As Time Goes By perhaps you were "old before your time" - and your screen name may be apt. I moved even further, from across the Atlantic, but found that in my circle of acquaintances, people were well mannered and quite unlike those you describe. Possibly because some of them were famous I was not exposed to the elements you mention, although I certainly did sample the joys of the "Summer of Love". And lived to tell the tale!
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#123 KScurmudgeon:
"We must generalize if we are to understand and deal with large numbers of anything"
That's an over-generalization!
This is only useful if the "dealing" doesn't imply negative actions such as violence and intimidation based on false information. People object to generalizations that have negative effects.
I don't think it is a valid position to defend generalization. Supporting generalizations that are valid and accurate and criticising ones that aren't seems more valid. (if you're not a director of propaganda and your intention is to arrive at some kind of scientific objectivity)
Obviously you must defend my position! :)
Which then leads to people just exchanging generalizations that don't agree and there are always exceptions. Which means that you have to then stop generalizing and reach for specifics. Obviously one person can't understand everything but it doesn't stop many people understanding all the details. The devil is in the details.
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@100 (BVL): That was a pretty good description. The only thing I'd modify is that the Pres isn't just an agenda-setter. The Pres is a Chief Executive charged to "...take care that the laws be faithfully executed..." (Article II, Section 3 of the Constitution). To do that, he must put together a budget to do that and deliver it to the Congress, who (as you pointed out) has their own agenda. The Congress owns the budget, the tax code, and the law...all the real levers of power in the US. This is one reason why I clobber the Congress here and elsewhere--they really ARE responsible, far more than any President, for the state of the Union.
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Poor Marcus,
So the bean counters didn't make the investment decisions after all?
Glad you disagree with yourself.
Sad Sam
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@125(DC): Your statement is accurate, in that it's possible to choose to do the right thing anywhere, at any time. It's also true, though, that the values of those around you can affect you and your offspring, as hard as you might try to resist it. Depending on what those values are, and what you value, and how you see your responsibilities, you might choose to relocate.
I don't think KSC is to be called "old before his time" just because he made such a choice; nor is he suffering from timidity or cultural backwardness. I happen to share KSC's belief that CA in that time was very, very permissive of things they flatly should not have been (others are of course just as free in this country as I am to speak their mind on that topic), but even if I didn't, it's entirely possible to look at the kind of life available in CA (or anywhere else, for that matter) and decide that it's not for you, and doing so doesn't make anyone any less than they would be otherwise. I don't believe you intended to be insulting, DC, but unfortunately that's the way it came off. If you DID intend to insult or be condescending, it's beneath you, based on your past comments.
In my last job (Nextel, which became Sprint, unfortunately) I had the huge privilege of travelling to almost every state in the Union (except AK and HI). It was a source of great enjoyment to observe the cultural differences and similarities in the different sections of the country, and to be assured that cable TV, the Internet, and McDonald's have not yet thoroughly homogenized the entire country to a single cultural norm. Every region and area had things and people that were likable, and things and people that weren't. CA was no different. Yosemite Park is outstanding, San Francisco's Fisherman's Wharf is fascinating, Los Angeles is crowded and hectic, but Malibu (and Gladstone's...yummy fish!) is outstanding.
I'm here about 40 miles from the Capitol Dome, and while I like my work, and I like the cultural cross-currents that are here, I hate like crazy that my 85-year-old mother who's slowly sinking is a 7.5-hour car ride away. I have struggled for some time with the notion of leaving this area and relocating closer to her home to be able to take better care of her. Again, responsibilities have a way of helping you make decisions...
Regards to all this happy Thursday before the 4th of July. Cue the fireworks (and those fatty hot dogs on the grill) please...
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@86 (StD): I agree with almost everything you wrote, but I have to say I don't think you carried your logic quite far enough with regard to overseas movement. There's a reason for the overseas movement: the 401K and IRA. Here's why I think this.
Our 401K and IRA funds are held by mutual-fund managers. Basically we tell our fund managers to MAXIMIZE MY PROFITS, OR I'LL PULL MY CASH. We don't tell them to do anything else, and if they DON'T maximize our profits, we DO pull our cash. They figure out very quickly that they'd better focus on maximizing our profits. They then turn to the various boards of directors (BoDs) and corporate officers in the companies they invest in and say MAXIMIZE MY PROFITS, OR I'LL PULL MY CASH. They don't provide any other direction, either, just like we didn't. The BoDs and corporate officers respond to that direction, and they cut staff and send stuff overseas and do a whole lot of other stuff that we the workers are quite sure is insane. We wonder why they can't see this. And the cycle starts all over again.
I don't have a clue what to do about it, if we are going to leave retirement planning as it is. If I'm wrong about this, I'm happy to be corrected.
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MarcusAurelius 2
Marcus you are making me nervous!,some of your posts of late,how shall I put this,are some what Valid,ok not of my opinion,but what the heck!.
What is the reason for this lack of acidity?.
Are you,
A/Lulling some poor person in to a false sence of security, befor blasting them ?.
B/You like the British after all??.
C/You have A new girl friend???.
If its A/ then this is for you.
Dick the 3ed part one.
Now is the winter of our, malcontent.
"For us" Made glorious summer by this son of dork.
If its B/C,Please except my apology & best wishes..
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We have a president more concerned with gay rights then fixing the economy. We are going to turn into California out of control spending for left wing pet projects. His approval rating is falling. On Climate Change yea its smart idea to put more regulations and taxes on already strugging businesses.Thanks One term Obama.
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#129. arclightt: "I don't think KSC is to be called "old before his time" just because he made such a choice"
Possibly you've not seen As Time Goes By so the reference seemed a bit harsh, but that wasn't the intention.
"nor is he suffering from timidity or cultural backwardness"
Not something I suggested, but rather what you have read into my post.
"I happen to share KSC's belief that CA in that time was very, very permissive of things they flatly should not have been"
You seem to think that California was a 20th century Sodom and Gomorrah; having lived in Los Angeles at the time (and to the present) I cannot, from experience, agree. If it was so liberal, why then was Ronald Reagan elected Governor? Twice. I think it was/is a popular perception that California was the 'anything-goes' state but in reality it was (and is) far more mundane. People go about their work, go the supermarket, have children, raise and educate them just as in the other forty-nine states. Television news tends to show only short clips of the more outrageous - but not typical - aspects of life here; perhaps the generally splendid weather adds to the idea that somehow the state is more permissive than elsewhere. Images of 'flower children', John and Yoko in bed, hippies in San Francisco and LA's Sunset Strip were really a veneer - the principal concern of many young people of that era was the Vietnam war, about which it eventuated that they were correct. Seeing youngsters toking on a joint or two men kissing must have seemed outrageous to those in mid-America, but that's TV news - always showing the sensational rather than the average, the latter being far too dull to be newsworthy.
When I was first living in the Hollywood area, walking along Hollywood Boulevard, a visitor asked me "where are all the stars", believing that it was like some Emerald City of entertainment. My response was that the only stars anyone would see were on the sidewalk, the "Walk of Fame". The perception of "Hollywood" as a real place is misplaced, as is the notion that California is the land of milk and honey. Opportunity and innovation, certainly, but otherwise quite ordinary!
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My, my how forgetful we are. To go back into a little decadenal history, my husband recently spoke with a long time friend of the Democratic persuasion who said, and I quote, "If Gore had won, we wouldn't have had the War in Iraq" and my husband who considers himself to be a nonpartisan type said in reply, "Yeah, we just would have had five more 9/11's". Bush was very intelligent compared to Obama. That's my basic comment from these United States of America. Everyone seems to remember Dec 7, 1941 but everyone forgets Sept 11, 2001. And they are only close to 60 years apart.
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I thought this was a blog about Obama. How did it get all the way to California. Because of the what's happening right here in my native state? Where I have lived nearly my entire life. I am astonished. I go a looking for an slideshow which showed all the wonderful ideas including this personal computer I write with was thought of here in California by the masterful Jobs and Wozniak (spelling) and end up seeing how others feel disgusted by the place? This place is so innovative and "crazy" something good with our budget will happen soon. Not to worry. We really don't do much worrying around here because California is like a mirage. It doesn't really exist! Have any one of the writers of these posts ever come here across the mighty Mojave desert? This might explain why Californians are the way they are.
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The moderator must be at lunch or dinner or breakfast?
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the correct answer is d/ukewailee, you are getting smarter. Not a whole lot but at least some. When you get a lot smarter you will agree with all of them. And when you get very smart, I won't have to continue educating you, you will do my posting for me. I don't know if I will live long enough to see that day but where there's life, there's hope.
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It has taken years to inflict the damage to the U.S that Mr. Obama is attempting to halt . It will take years to undo the damage . There is no quick fix for America from either party . The solution will be in a dialogue of what the nation's priorties are for the twenty- first century not in the political posturing of either party Democratic or Republican who have share a good deal of the responsibility for getting us into this mess in the first place
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ref #109
No one is going to confuse Ronald Reagan with being a great actor.
Anymore than Al Franken being a great media personality.
Now Reagan (wether you agree with him or not) exceeded expectations in is govt career.
Can Stuart Smally exceed in a positive way his?
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To#123 Kscurmudgeon
I would discuss with you the value and validity of generalizations.
I have noted that you extracted but a few words of my post to respond to which seems to be something that happens too frequently on this blog, in my very humble opinion.
I believe you live in Kansas. Were I to generalize and make insubstantial judgments based on very limited information, I could perhaps lump you into the 'Everybody' of some of my in-laws. Though you do share some values with them, I doubt you would care to actually spend much time in their company!
On the whole, I prefer not to visit Kansas. However, this does not mean that I believe the faceless 'Everyone' in Kansas is a flaming bigoted, bible-kissing, closed-minded, intolerant person. I believe that there are many very good, kind and open-minded people who live in Kansas even if I have not met each of them. You, yourself, are a seeker who has strong values and opinions but does not close heart and mind to that of others.
Furthermore, I would defend your state just as I have California. It is unfair and even worse, unkind and unchristian (which I believe you have said you are a Christian) to make judgment on any group of people for the actions of a few.
Ubuntu: What hurts you, hurts me, hurts everyone and hurts the world we share.
The spear, even an unkind word, in the heart of another is a spear sent into your own heart.
We are all on this earth together, let us love one another and keep peace in our hearts.
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To#134 Wright5679
Actually, I remember both events very well and also the day my child died in Iraq.
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134 wright5679
If we could forget it that would be great but there are several wars going on and a world economic collapse as a result of the general malaise caused by the war to remind us Every day. And in the states they still drive with don't forget and united we fall stickers on their cars. Now that freedom from healthcare and holiday day is approaching I suspect a few more reminders will come to the front.
I like the "my husband who considers himself to be non partisan" say only bush could have reacted to the attack. that all Dems are automatically assumed to be a bunch of no hope wimps with rocks in their heads who could not realise that a quick war is possible and the casualties would be so small we would not have to worry about sending the message to the world that the USA military is bust, broke, empty.
Hey all you can get away with it because we are so full of vengeance that we do not fight well.or smart.
GW was the only one that could have saved america as he has so obviously done.
No dems could get near doing so well.So sayeth the Husband
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Re: 134 As an American, I am so ashamed that some of my fellow Americans still believe that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, and who think that Bush is very intelligent compared to anyone much less to Obama.
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KS, arclightt, DC, if I could just weigh in on the California thread...
Yes, it is true that California attracts its share of dreamers. If you
go and visit the High Desert Museum up north in Oregon (somewhere around
Bend, if I recall correctly) you'll find out that the trail split there
and that the family men went north to the Willamette Valley where rich
farmland could be found. The single men were generally risk-takers and
went south to California and Nevada.
And so, the pattern was established. Now, as for the current budget crisis,
the Democrats control the legislature through gerrymandering. All they seem
to want to do is to tax and spend. But, there is a fiscally conservative
element here (of which I am a part.) We want to cut government spending,
because, believe it or not, we actually pay a greater percentage of our income,
than most states per capita, to the state. The average state takes 11% of its
citizens' income, but we pay 11.5%, even with Prop 13.
Of course, the Democrats would like to take more. But, in a series of ballot
measures taken earlier this year, they were resoundingly defeated, and now
they want to call a constitutional convention to overturn it. It is more likely
that they will see their butts kicked. I'm looking forward to it.
So about the fruits and the nuts... Yes, California attracts its share.
But the good side about the accepting attitude here is that anyone can
come here and be accepted. Most dreamers fail and wind up pushing mops.
But a few succeed. And, that's why we have companies like Apple, Google,
Facebook, Twitter, and another thousand or so on the way that you may hear
of someday.
It is true that Californians are just a little odd. Like the lady at
the bus stop who will strike up a conversation with you as if you were
already acquainted. This kind of thing would never happen in Boston.
It's the openness to new ideas that makes California work.
Just to give an example: I worked in the 80s at a computer company out
here, and our main competitor was based on the East Coast (where I grew up.)
Their CEO proclaimed one day that they were going to wipe us out, and that
"Everything which is loose rolls to the West Coast."
We interpreted that remark as a compliment. Guess what? We wiped them out.
We even kicked the mighty IBM in the pants. Now they allow their engineers
to show up for work in blue jeans. We were the ones who made them do that.
So, of course, California, like any young gal, has picked up some bad
habits and gotten herself into a mess. But, we'll sort it out. We always do.
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Addendum to Wright5679 (your #135)
Obviously, you have not read all the posts very carefully because I defended California in my post #99.
Someone else seconded that in posts # 101 or 102. Perhaps you only seek argument?
You will find some here who delight in rhetoric, generalizations and dispute of those who do not agree with them. I wish you enjoyment in your debate of them.
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"And when you get very smart, I won't have to continue educating you, you will do my posting for me. "
What you don't have some already at it?
I must have misread the past posts.
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Ref 130, Arclightt
"Our 401K and IRA funds are held by mutual-fund managers."
Although there are federal regulations that establish guidelines for 401k plans, corporations often offer different options to their employees. For example, the company I used to work for offered 100% matching, most offer 50% matching. I also had the option of investing up to 8% of my salary in company stock, savings with interest, or two types of mutual fund, one was very conservative the other a bit riskier. Additional 401k investment was allowed up to a total of 12% of salary, but the additional 4% was not matched. I also had the good fortune of working for a company that used to offer a traditional pension plan in addition to the 401k.
People should not count on Social Security as their only source of income when they retire. SS benefits are simply not enough to subsist, regardless of the solvency of the program. Incidentally, when I hired on about five decades ago the personnel manager told me that they had no choice but to deduct SS taxes from my check, even though they all knew that program was going to go broke long before I ever collected a dime from it...
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I wonder why so many people have given up posting here. It cannot be because they have all been banned.
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What a funny comment
"Now Reagan (wether you agree with him or not) exceeded expectations in is govt career."
you mean he tied his shoe laces right.
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Aqua I'd back such decency anywhere.
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134. At 4:36pm on 02 Jul 2009, wright5679 wrote:
My, my how forgetful we are. To go back into a little decadenal history, my husband recently spoke with a long time friend of the Democratic persuasion who said, and I quote, "If Gore had won, we wouldn't have had the War in Iraq" and my husband who considers himself to be a nonpartisan type said in reply, "Yeah, we just would have had five more 9/11's"."
If your husband was making a knowledgeable comment he should have reported immediately to the authorites and given them the source of his intelligence.
In fact I think he could even be arrested if he did not. Hopefully you or your friend would have reported him as required.
Of course he might have been making an idiotic, half-witted comment.
In which case he is safe.
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Ref 135 Wright 5679
Have any one of the writers of these posts ever come across the mighty Mojave desert?.
Back in 1981 my very first US trip ,fly drive with Pan Am.A fortnight (two weeks)of jaw droping bliss for a guy from Wales.LA to Barstow first day ,visit Calico mining town.Accross the Mojave to Vagas in my rented AMC Concord.Hoover dam, Grand canyon,Yosemite,took the coast road to Sa Francisco,Big sur ect.On returning home Took me a long time to settle back.Loved that trip State & Folk..
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137. At 5:05pm on 02 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
I don't know if I will live long enough to see that day but where there's life, there's hope. "
But sadly in your case the reverse is true.
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152, ukwales, you should come back with a brewmaster and show us how to
lift our spirits.
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#148 Seanpa
With the recent arrival of MA11 (again) means all intelligence has left.
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154 Guns,
In the county to the north of Pembrokshire they have reset up a micro brewery,with local spring water & pure ingredients it sells all it makes.If I could get that beer over to you chaps it would lift your spirits & with all the money I could make, mine also.
Early I know,but happy 4July to all Americans.
We tend not to celebrate that one over here!!!.
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ukwales #156
We don't celebrate?
They have Marcus. It appears that every day calls for a celebration, just for that fact, boyo.
You could at least send him a bottle of Brains. A sort of 'intent cordial'
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seanspa (#148) "I wonder why so many people have given up posting here."
I suppose it's mostly because Mr. Webb and Mr. Mardell are both missing in action, no doubt working on their transitions.
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UK Wales I have been up and down the California Coast and the Mojave and the West . No doubt it was brilliant for a young lad from the flat State of Illinois , but I must comment- I went to Wales last year and I was as greatly impressed by the views, the people and had a great time .
Seems we all have something unique and beautiful in even our own backyards
Happy Fourth of July weekend to all
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All right enough with all the California bashing for God's sake!!!! I understood some of the original points, and thought they had been made very well, but this is just simply rude!!!
Have you all ever stopped to think about what would happen if California seceded from the union? It alone would account for the world's 8th largest economy. So if it seceded, the United States would plummett from being the world's first largest economy to the world's 5th largest economy almost immediately. Add to that the very frightening fact that California would take along with it all the good things that the United States has to offer the world. The film industry, Silicone vally, the music industry, Apple, Google, and the list goes on and on. Face it. Without California, the only thing this country has to offer the world is the military (which is wonderful!) but at the same time the world, and I, don't care very much for our frankly having gotten into the habit of treating our military as if they are toy soldiers over the past decade or so.
So I implore you, think about it.
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158 Gary Hill , or they were chased away by persistent unjustified complaints that led to them being banned or bored with others being banned. Maybe they just thought not to waste their time writing in case it ended up getting banned . I don't know.Do you?
UK Wales I bet there are a few Pubs doing a thank god we got rid o them parties.
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ukwales #156: '"Early I know,but happy 4July to all Americans.
We tend not to celebrate that one over here!!!."
Hahahaha...I totally understand...I needed a laugh!! But if its any compansation, we just ended up (at least on the international stage) becoming you in your hay day...and to think our founders thought they were blazing a trale that hadn't even been conceived of before at the time! Certainly domesticly, but the world wars had made us utterly paranoied at any occurance in the world. So all's well that ends well.
You should post more often. In my opinion you're one of the only sane sensible people on here and I enjoy your posts!!
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Well I was thinking about the moderators. Help or hindrance - discuss. Except it's difficult to do that when posts take hours to appear, and posters disappear.
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Mr Hill just to add .Do you really think the posters here care if it is MArk mardell Justin web or bonzo the clown posting the threads.
I suspect not really.
this Is a BBC forum paid for by the BBC for the BBC. The interesting posts from Justin webb who was moved here for the american elections just happen to be the posts of the present editor but like most things in the UK this blog under whatever name they give it will still be the BBC blog on America.
Not Justins "now I'm back where I belong "blog.
But the boots do look shiny .
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160. At 11:11pm on 02 Jul 2009, NoRashDecisions wrote:
All right enough with all the California bashing for God's sake!!!! I understood some of the original points, and thought they had been made very well, but this is just simply rude!!!"
One simple solution to all California's problems is to give it back to Mexico, from whom it should never have been taken in the first place.
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It's simple all right! Doesn't address the financial problems at all.
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100. At 6:06pm on 01 Jul 2009, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
It's ironic that in an era of big government and increased Presidential power we may be witnessing the return of Congressional dominance, something that tends to cyclically change in intensity."
It is just a pity that the COngress is rotten to the core with many of its members being virtually elected for life and owing their positions to open gerrymandering.
Why the US does not reform its antiquated system so corrupt electoral practices are deemed illegal rather than celebrated, politicians do not select the judges and puerile farces such as filibustering are eliminated, is a mystery.
How people can have respect for a system which saw Federal employees wages threatened to make a point against Clinton, a group of Texans crossing the border to and fro and hiding in hotels to prevent gerrymandering and Senators who seem to be more secure in their seats than the Chinese Politburo, is another mystery.
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156, ukwales, it's O.K., you need not fear spending July 4th here.
We don't dump beer overboard, we reserve that treatment for tea. However,
if hobnobs are included, then we extend diplomatic immunity to the tea.
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#137. MarcusAureliusII: "ukewailee . . . when you get very smart, I won't have to continue educating you, you will do my posting for me."
Then let's hope he stays as he is, two of you would be impossible to bear.
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#139. MagicKirin: "No one is going to confuse Ronald Reagan with being a great actor."
And no one said he was; all I remarked was that he was neither second nor third rate. He was competent at his work - and what passed for great acting fifty years ago may seem hammy and over-acted today.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#100, 167
I had the impression that the Bush administration may have found it needed to extend (overly) the executive powers in a lot of areas. It seems the Obama administration intends to restore a little of that balance, and having about 60 Senate seats in their party may make that a little easier for them. And it must be cyclical, or teetering... balance teeters.
Vow of poverty - or maybe a communistic standardized subsidized allotment...its the only way. Many would be extremists and we would see a lot of teetering. And I imagine you'll still have greedy and corrupt leaders, but maybe not as many.
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joepinapples:
Beleive it or not, You are the first to get my screen name.
Or at least the first to get it and then comment on it.
Perhaps my jibe was too subtle.
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seanspa:
Since my Michael Jackson joke was censored, I'd have to say "hinderance."
Maybe the "king of pop' has a fan amoung the moderators.
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174 you forgot an o there;)
and do reiterate your jibe.
it was too subtle.
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You already know that the invading European grey squirrels are displacing Briton's native red squirrels.
subtle enough that only the most intelligent would get it,
those who would react like soccer hooligans would be left out of the loop.
Not too sublte for you, just everyone else.
1867 was the year my european ancestors came to America.
But we haven't been nearly as sucessful as the Grey Squirrel.
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133. At 4:28pm on 02 Jul 2009, David_Cunard wrote:
#129. arclightt: "I don't think KSC is to be called "old before his time" just because he made such a choice"
and
140. At 5:27pm on 02 Jul 2009, aquarizonagal wrote:
To#123 Kscurmudgeon
'I would discuss with you the value and validity of generalizations.'...
'I have noted that you extracted but a few words of my post to respond to which seems to be something that happens too frequently on this blog, in my very humble opinion.'
I have been criticized for quoting too extensively, and so I cut down your work as much as I could and still provide some context for my replies. Please forgive - there was no intention not to respond to all you said.
DCunard, I was old before my time then - now I am an utter anachronism.
Nevertheless, this particular thread did begin on topic, on the suggestion that America's weakening resolve to address its pressing issues might have a parallel in California's evident paralysis in dealing with its own issues.
From the presumption that the state legislature must reflect the will or the conflicting wills of the voters, I generalized the voters' collective refusal to pay for the services they continued to demand.
The question I intended is, can we as a nation see in our political future a paralysis of conflicting interests, ineffective leadership, and failure of common vision as complete as California has come to today -that is where I had hoped the conversation would go. That would be more relevant than my personal story and prejudices, and might be more productive if not more enjoyable than poking fun at regional peculiarities (which is always a great sport when done with appreciation....).
Aquarizonagal, I respect your compassion, and stand by my use of generalizations narrowly defined by 'one or two' specific characteristics. Yes, we must know as much as possible about the details, and weigh their meaning against the use we will make of the knowledge. But images have great power, whether they are accurate or not. The images conjured by the word 'California' have enormous influence all around our planet. They deserve careful scrutiny for their own sake, as does the brilliant reality behind them.
Perhaps you know that Kansas has it's own peculiar history, a more fundamental conflict than California's, which persists in its people and culture from it's beginnings at the root of the Civil War. Scratch the earth anywhere, and you can find marvels, terrors, sometimes marvelous terrors.
KScurmudgeon
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KScurmudgeon (#177), you are right when you say, "Perhaps you know that Kansas has it's own peculiar history, a more fundamental conflict than California's, which persists in its people and culture from it's beginnings at the root of the Civil War."
But, both Kansas and California are linked with the root cause of the civil war because of the failure of the Missouri Compromise of 1821, the Compromise of 1850, and the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854.
The original compromise collapsed because California--a territory clearly half inside slave designated territory--wanted to be admitted to the Union in 1850 wholly as a free state rather than be split into two states, 1 free and 1 slave, for the sake of balance in the Senate.
The Kansas-Nebraska Act was one of the final attempts at compromise and balance whereby territories and newly admitted states were allowed to vote whether to be a free or slave state. The Bleeding Kansas episode is the poster child for the failure of this policy and foreshadowed both the war to come 7 years later and the result.
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Mr Obama is president and must do what presidents do.Just as green people in the UK told listeners to the BBC radio not to leave their phone charger connected in order to save the planet (while saying nothing about the 150 horse power car that takes a small child to school) so the president will avoid the "inconvenient "truth ie America must lower its standard of luxury living ,work harder for less pay and pay more taxes.Can he tell his public that they have been having it far too good for too long ? Politicians suceed because they make themselves popular to the maximum numbers.Obama is an illusion,a nice idea,and little more.In order to make changes he would have to rewrite history and say "We must change because our sacred ideals were quite wrong" He is trapped and was already trapped when elected.Political systems cannot cope with todays problems and the political powers are not going to bow out to new ideas
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179:
You certainly make abiding by the Constitution and respecting the independance of the other two branches of American government out to be the wrong way to go about enacting change. I completely disagree with your assessment, and I am saddened by it.
I would rather see President Obama's proposals die in Congress, even if I agreed with them, than see him or any President of the US wield dictatorial powers so as to:
make America lower its standard of living, work harder for less pay, pay more taxes, and/or rewrite history in order to make the changes he wants.
I for one still believe in the sacred ideals of the Republic, and I hope that you reflect on what you and I have said this 4th of July weekend.
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180. At 10:15am on 03 Jul 2009, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
I would rather see President Obama's proposals die in Congress, even if I agreed with them, than see him or any President of the US wield dictatorial powers so as to:make America lower its standard of living, work harder for less pay, pay more taxes, and/or rewrite history
But hasn't all that already happened? (Before Obama was elected, I mean.)
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peterrawlins;
"Can he tell his public that they have been having it far too good for too long ?
That is a strictly European point of view and is unacceptable in the US because it is antithetical to the American cultural ethos.
President Obama's message is entirely different, quintessentially American, and at its core the same as President Bush's. It says we can live as well as we do now and better but to do that, we will have to be smarter and more inventive. We will have to find new and better ways to achieve higher standards of living for more people. This is a traditional American perspective. Better technology, better management of skills and other resources, real progress from the ground up that is to be nurtured and rewarded. The message of top down tax the rich until everyone lives at the lowest common denominator and squelch individual initiative and inventiveness by robbing its rewards through taxes and other disincentives is a European message Americans reject entirely. We will not live that way. We'll see if President Obama "walks the walk." It looks increasingly like he's morphing into a European with more taxes he promised he would not impose when he ran for office. We do not like being taxed by government and as Californians are deomonstrating once again (that's what prop 13 was about) there is a limit to what they will put up with. The message to government is to spend less. Provide what is essential and no more. It's our money not yours. If you don't believe it, next election you will be out of office. I think that's one overlooked reason Republicans lost this last election, overspending the government's budget. They forgot what it means to be conservative and responsible.
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America is living in the past and burying its head in the sand.The world has already changed and the US can not understand .4 July is history the USA needs a new 4July not looking back to an event that is now meaningless As meaningless and out of date as the English court that could not deal with reality when king George owned the American colonies .Reality has no respect for nationalism and the USA in more bogged down with nationalism than Britain was in the sixties and seventies .The past glories of British industries were suddenly gone and crying over the past was not an option. Pretending that you can keep up your standard of living when you are seriously in debt is not an option for a country anymore than an individual.Being seriously in financial trouble means you cannot have what you once had otherwise we could all just live forever on huge government loans and the finacial system would be meaningless and everyone could print money and become rich at will.The financial system is a human invention and only works because we all believe in it and obey the rules.The rules are now being bent to the limits to keep things going and if the USA as the biggest player bends the rules beyond a credible level the system will fall apart. Profitability is a waste of time and hard work if it can be replaced by borrowing against the future The various fixes by goverments cannot defy logic,as your bank manager used to say you have to eat bread until you can afford cake.If there is not a serious price to pay for the serious money problems then the money problems would not matter.
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Ref 152, UKWales
"Have any one of the writers of these posts ever come across the mighty Mojave desert?"
I lived in the Mojave Desert from 1969 to 1978, in a small city called Barstow when I worked in a NASA complex on the grounds of Fort Irwin. The desert has a very unique beauty that travelers heading for Las Vegas often miss, and its fauna and flora are worth studying, but most city folks hate it. I enjoyed rock formations, the wide variety of cacti, tarantula migrations, coyotes, road runners, etc. The dry lakes and mirages were interesting, even though the USA used some for target practice and one time they made a mistake and drop two bombs a little over a mile from the Apollo station where I was working at the time. Rattle snakes and black widows were a major concern since we were raising our children at the time; but crime was almost non-existant in those days. An interesting finding is that even though temperatures rise to high levels, it didn't bother us as long as we were in the shade and drank plenty of fluids.
It took my wife a long time to readjust from life in Madrid, Spain, to life in Bastow. Fortunately, it is relatively close to natural wonders such as the Grand Canyon, Yosemite, Sequoia, the Calico ghost town, Death Valley, LA, Las Vegas and so many other places that it doesn't take long to change sceneries.
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Ref 97, Joepinapples
"But the average european was not able to afford it.(not that the Tax payer can afford to pay 10 MPG costs for maintaining that luxuary."
I had an interesting experience while vacationing in the Canary Islands about 20 years ago (my wife was born in Las Palmas). I was having a conversation with one of my brothers in law, who used to own two restaurants in Stockholm, and when I complained about the price of the tickets to fly from the USA to the Canaries he told me that it didn't cost him a nickel. He simply informed the authorities (can't remember the name of the department) that he was tired because he had been working too hard and the government paid for the airline tickets for him, his wife and children, and paid for a small villa in the south of the island for a month so that he could have some R&R. I don't know if Sweden still does things like that, but I thought it was bizarre.
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Ref 107, Foxtrot
"But you could say the best acting job the "luv'ble" Ronald Reagan did was in the White House as President, or he didn't know where he was at, for that matter."
I am not a fan of President Reagan, in fact, I hold him responsible for the fiscal responsible, deficit spending, deregulation and rejection of government oversight that has been the norm in our country since his tenure; but he did something that few Presidents have done in modern history. He inspired confidence, championed the need for a "safety net", and made us proud of being Americans after the disaster in Vietnam and Watergate. The latter should not be dismissed and it is, in my opinion, one of the most important roles of a President.
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O great, I think I just poseted a blank comment somehow. Apologies moderators please delete post #187!
#182
"President Obama's message is entirely different, quintessentially American, and at its core the same as President Bush's"
Surely thats the kind of thing you want to hear?
"It says we can live as well as we do now and better but to do that, we will have to be smarter and more inventive. We will have to find new and better ways to achieve higher standards of living for more people. This is a traditional American perspective."
I have to admit, I'm not American but that's the kind of philosophy I hold. Technological and scientific improvements mean that we can maintain a good lifestyle. To say that it is only an American view point I tihnk is wrong, because I think a lot of people around the world see the benefits of innovation. The only problem is that this is only ever a long term solution.
"The message of top down tax the rich until everyone lives at the lowest common denominator and squelch individual initiative and inventiveness by robbing its rewards through taxes and other disincentives is a European message Americans reject entirely"
I think you are exaggerating there, the rich are still rich even with a higher tax, because proportionately they are still better off. That will never change. Everyone hates taxes, for sure, but they are as inevitable as death, to misquote whoever said something along those lines. Cheney will never loose his wealth by tax, Michael Jackson never lost his wealth from high tax. Tax will never stop rich people getting richer or sustaining their wealth.
"more taxes he promised he would not impose when he ran for office."
I seem ot recall he said he would impose taxes, but on the higher earners?
"We do not like being taxed by government and as Californians are deomonstrating once again (that's what prop 13 was about) there is a limit to what they will put up with"
Well to be fair in CA they went overboard with spending. It was inevitable taxes would have to increase. They might not like it but they have to grit their teeth and deal with it.
"I think that's one overlooked reason Republicans lost this last election, overspending the government's budget. They forgot what it means to be conservative and responsible. "
I agree with you on that, apart from the overlooked bit. I'd say the economic recession and budgetary mis-management was the second biggest reason that the republicans lost out. First was Palin, of course!
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Squirrelist #181: '"But hasn't all that already happened? (Before Obama was elected, I mean.)"
Too true!!! Sad, but deadly acurit. George W. Bush was the most dictatorial president we have ever had since our founding. From the Patriot act, to Guantanamo Bay, to ordering the use of torture and lieing about it to the nation and the world, to shredding the citizen's fourth amendment rights with his blatantly illegal warrentless wire tapping program, to forcing his way into war with Iraq while simultaneously lieing about the reasons for it, the list goes on and on.
I tell you what, if any other country had suffered the 9/11 attaks, you can bet that their leader would not have become so utterly paranoid as to strip their country of all that the terrorists who attacked them hated about them in the first place, thereby not only surrendering to the terrorists, but inadvertently becoming them in all but name.
Only in America.
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Ref 182, NRD
"George W. Bush was the most dictatorial president we have ever had since our founding."
Don't forget the Imperial Nixon presidency, and the Sen. Joe McCarthy post WWII era...
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Saintone.
the poster you reply to seems to get so close but remain so far from the answers.
Your point is correct. Europeans do in fact enjoy life more and live just as well. they just think that walking to the pub is nice. they have designed around making things more efficient and still having all the mod cons.(interesting words those).
The angry emperor just seems to think that all but him live in squaller.
Only americans have indoor plumbing.
Only americans have hospitals
only americans have cars etc etc.
Truth being, they have the worst of all Modern technologies(OK they have loads of "toys").They had to update all their TV sets to (hi def) because they started with their silly system nstc that was only able to fit a few lines on the screen so the picture was fuzzy.
Only in america.
No rash decision
I'd agree there.189.
respect to the militant posse.
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peterwrongly
"4 July is history the USA needs a new 4July not looking back to an event that is now meaningless"
All men are created equal
They have inalienable rights that are self evident
Among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
When government abuses those rights the people have the right to overthrow the government and replace it.
These rights are self evident.
Those are timeless values that will exist as long as humans are human. It is Europe that is obsolete. Europe never recognized those rights. The closest they ever came was the French Revolution but that only resulted in a new tyranny. Then it went back to business as usual, autocractic government, despotism just as the EU is today.
For America, the current financial problems are temporary and it will recover stronger and better than ever. In the past it's been through worse, much worse and every time misfortune strikes it comes roaring back. Europe on the other hand is doomed. The party is about over, the manager is bringing the check to be paid and Europe is broke. Its cradle to grave social safety nets made of silver and gold can no longer be bought or even rented. The American gravy train that paid for it for decades has left the station forever. All that remains is for America to quit NATO and leave Europe to pay to defend itself. On its own, Europe is an absurdity that cannot survive. To glimpse its future, look at Africa today. That's where it's headed.
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192. At 5:54pm on 03 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
peterwrongly
"4 July is history the USA needs a new 4July not looking back to an event that is now meaningless"
All men are created equal
They have inalienable rights that are self evident
Among them are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
When government abuses those rights the people have the right to overthrow the government and replace it.
These rights are self evident.
Those are timeless values that will exist as long as humans are human."
The fact that there people who wrote these words bought, sold, raped and murdered slaves shows what rank cant this was.
But these slaves were black and we know what you think of black Americans.
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192. At 5:54pm on 03 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
""
" To glimpse its future, look at Africa today. That's where it's headed."
You have got this thing about black people bad haven't you?
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186, SaintDom: "made us proud of being Americans" re: Reagan.
I'm not sure who are the "us" you refer to. That is a very broad generalization. I and everyone I associated with during those years found Reagan to be an embarrassment. I lived inside the Beltway then, so perhaps that explains it. Perhaps those who did not have access to The Washington Post got a different view of things. However, my friends in various other parts of the country also were not made proud of being Americans at that time. An argument can be made that Reagan's policies were responsible for my husband's death.
Usually I approve of your posts but it can be annoying to find oneself gathered into a group to which one has never belonged, by choice.
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194
Thought it was too good to be true before he reverted to type again. Somebody tell him to lay off (he's been boring everybody except, apparently, the moderators, on every Beeb blog for months with the same old rubbish) and read the Bill of Rights (1689).
Or this -- http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/03/opinion/03freedman.html?_r=1 -- if that's too difficult for him.
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bere, you would have loved spitting image, a satirical program in the UK from the 80s.
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196
I'll save him the bother with a few lines of it:
And thereupon the said Lords Spiritual and Temporal and Commons, pursuant to their respective letters and elections, being now assembled in a full and free representative of this nation . . .do in the first place (as their ancestors in like case have usually done) for the vindicating and asserting their ancient rights and liberties declare:
That the pretended power of suspending the laws or the execution of laws by regal authority without consent of Parliament is illegal;
That the pretended power of dispensing with laws or the execution of laws by regal authority, as it hath been assumed and exercised of late, is illegal;
That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law;
That election of members of Parliament ought to be free;
That the freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament;
That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. . .
And they do claim, demand and insist upon all and singular the premises as their undoubted rights and liberties
Maybe the odd phrase here and there might look familiar.
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SaintDominick #190: '"Don't forget the Imperial Nixon presidency, and the Sen. Joe McCarthy post WWII era..."
Ahh yes. But the thing is, at least those people were forced to resign and in McCarthy's case, put on trile for their greed and for driving the nation literally insane. Bush was able and allowed to fear monger and bully his way into practicly anything he wanted and congress (with some very rare exceptions) didn't even do so much as to raise an eyebrow, much less questions about Bush's motives and asparations in pursuing his policies.
Now to be fair, during the world wars both Wilson and Roosavelt shredded the bill of rights as well, so I'm in no way attempting to insinuate that only Republicans are prone to becoming corrupt and greedy when in positions of power!!! But that doesn't make Bush's, Nixon's, or anyone else's actions any more justifyed!
It is a sad fact, though, that whenever this nation has felt the slightest bit threatened, either domesticly or from abroad, it 90% of the time caved and at least to some extent curtailed the constitutional rights of its citizens, which I thought were unalienable.
One wonders, if Jefferson were alive today, what would he think of what the country has become?
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197, seanspa -
That was excellent! Thank you.
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Ref 195, bere
I lived outside the beltway in those days (Maryland, Montgomery County, and worked in Greenbelt, MD). I believe President Reagan's domestic and foreign policies were a disaster. From the "cut and run" in Lebanon, to Grenada, the Iran-Contra scandal and our overt participation in the Salvadoran debacle his entire foreign policy was an embarrassment. I find it amusing when people credit Reagan with the collapse of the Soviet Union; I still remember his confused demeanor when that happened, he looked like a child whose favorite toy had been taken away. The Soviet Union collapsed because of the failure of communism, an ideology that promotes mediocrity at the expense of innovation and motivation, not because anything President Reagan did, although the concerted efforts of successive administrations to engage the Soviets in an arms race they could not afford precluded their ability to implement domestic programs they desperately needed and contributed to their demise.
Reagan's trickle down economics policy scared his own campaign financial advisor, David Stockman, who acknowledged that concept was supposed to be campaign rhetoric only and if implemented would result in out of control deficits and massive accumulation of debt. Reagan's denunciations of government programs and his focus on de-regulation were the start of the economic malaise we are currently enduring.
I do believe. however, that he inspired many Americans at a time when the country was demoralized by the Vietnam fiasco and the embarrassment of Watergate. In spite of his intellectual limitations, and clear signs of senility, he was a grandfather image that helped soothe the partisan behavior that characterized politics in our country after Watergate. The "Reagan Democrats" are an example of the unifying force that he was, regardless of how deserved that accomplishment may be, it did happen and it was a turning point in American politics. Sometimes perceptions are just as important as deeds and Reagan, likie some of his successors, managed to project an image of prosperity that did not reflect reality and was nothing but smoke and mirrors.
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It is a sad fact, though, that whenever this nation has felt the slightest bit threatened, either domesticly or from abroad, it 90% of the time caved and at least to some extent curtailed the constitutional rights of its citizens, which I thought were unalienable."
No rash decision . Man you are on form.
Total truth.
Way to go.Right on.
Seanspa. that was a funny clip.I had not seen before .It seems more and more Spitting image is making it onto u tube,great.Now I want that song by bob marley about thatcher;) "my iron lady;")
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Simple Simon
I have never complained about anyone's post but in your case I'm thinking about making an exception. Your accusations of racism against me are groundless and are a lie. You are a liar. I have never made reference to anyone's race in any derogatory way.
Whatever "crimes" you imagine the founding fathers of the United States of America committed, they can't hold a candle to the crimes of the British tyrants they overthrew or the countless crimes of the British Empire.
BTW, People of all races live in Africa or hadn't you noticed that fact.
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Marcus, what makes you think simon is british?
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Marcus arelious. You have made racist comments in the past .they Have been removed due to people complaining. Some banned posters refer to it and I remember reading your comments.You may need to back off and look at your comments as someone else would read them. Simon does not seem to be the only one that thinks you a tad racist.
Hating all other races is still racist.
Maybe you are not. then try writing in a non racist manner.
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201, saintDom -
Well, I guess I'm a bit confused then. When you say Reagan "inspired many Americans" and "made us proud to be Americans" in spite of all his dreadful policies, isn't that a bit like lauding Hitler for inspiring his countrymen out of the malaise suffered in the years following The Great War? Reagan's "inspiration" seems to have led to a score and more of years of greed and selfishness. And economic collapse. I cannot see this sort of inspiration as in any way a beneficial thing.
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sweetpea
"Marcus, what makes you think simon is british?"
Where did I say he was?
pineapple;
British and European are not races. I suggest you invest in a dictionary and look up the definition of words before you make accusations. Whatever derogatory remarks I've made, they had nothing to do with race.
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Hey Justin, I'm afraid i cant agree. The president is doing a good job as far as he can, and i think most of the world is sure of that. Carry on with your blogs all the best
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ref #189
Criticize Bush policies all you want but if we the dictator and abuserer of the law you would beleive; Obama would not be President.
Unlike Dictator Hugo or his lackies Corea and Morales, political opponents in the U.S have free access to media.
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#189 NoRashDecisions,
FYI, The "Patriot Act" was a bipartisan bill overwhelmingly approved by the U.S. Congress. It was not created by dictatorial fiat. The "Patriot Act" came up for renewal in 2005 and was again approved by congress.
In 2007 Congress approved the "Protect America Act" which legalized warrant-less wire tapping. To date, no court has determined that that the program prior to the "Protect America Act" was done illegally.
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You should hang your head in shame celebrating 4 July.It should be National Protest Day.After all you your tax take has gone down 34%, Your debts rise and rise by the day,your government lives in cloud cuckoo land,the dollar will probably collapse by Christmas because China might recall payment on some of the t-bonds its sold you and you won't be able to pay,you've lost your freedom to central control.Welcome to the reservation.
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207. MarcusAureliusII wrote:
British and European are not races. I suggest you invest in a dictionary and look up the definition of words before you make accusations. Whatever derogatory remarks I've made, they had nothing to do with race.
Don't be disingenuous. Your underlying intent is (and always has been) perfectly clear, even if your deliberate choice of phraseology allows you constantly to avoid sanctions for breaking the House Rules. Don't imagine for one moment that most contributors to many BBC blogs are not perfectly well aware of that.
Don't bother to reply in your usual fashion; I have no interest whatsoever, and nor, I expect, will anyone else, in any further communication from you.
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Ref 209, Magic
Suggesting that President Bush was a dictator or had dictatorial powers is as misleading as your tendency to call Chavez, Morales, Correa and other democratically elected and re-elected Latin American presidents dictators.
The definition of dictator is usually applied to leaders who assume power by force, typically with the support of the military. One of their first rulings is to cancel elections and impose their will on the people regardless of their wishes and aspirations. The best that people living under a dictatorship is a plebiscite, which is nothing but a facircal attempt to legitimize and otherwise illegal totalitarian regime.
I can imagine how offensive Chavez's "sulfuric" speeches must be to the far right, and it is not too hard to understand how frustrating it must be to see indigenous leaders enjoying the support of their constituents, promoting programs that benefit the masses, and paying off the national debts of neighboring countries, thus depriving our "benevolent" IMF and World Bank of the opportunity to collect high interests and control and exploit their clients. Whether you like it or not, Chavez and Morales enjoy the support of the overwhelming majority of their fellow citizens who voted for them and want them to remain in office, regardless of how people like you and I may feel about it. Ultimately, it is up to the people to elect their leaders, pretty much the same way we insist on choosing ours without foreign interferrence.
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marcus plastic smile
smiling faces
tell lies they don't
tell the truth beware
the truth is in the eyes
they don't tell lies
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Justin,
The answer to your question, from a physical perspective, is Camp David where the President is planning to celebrate the 4th of July and his daughter's birthday.
The question now is: where is Sarah Palin? More to the point: what does she have in mind? I think it is odd that she would quit her job 3.5 before the next presidential election. One of her greatest assets, besides charisma and her evangelism, was her executive experience which is now not so great. It almost looks like she is running away from controversial decisions that could hinder her chances in 2012, and is more interested in raising millions of dollars from the faithful than taking care of business in her home state.
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203. At 9:27pm on 03 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Simple Simon
I have never complained about anyone's post but in your case I'm thinking about making an exception. Your accusations of racism against me are groundless and are a lie. You are a liar. I have never made reference to anyone's race in any derogatory way. "
The implications of your remarks have been obvious and you fool no one
"Whatever "crimes" you imagine the founding fathers of the United States of America committed,"
Oh you don't think slavery is a crime? Why is that. Because US slaves were black?
I think most people in the United states would concede that it was a crime. You think it was the natural order of things?
"BTW, People of all races live in Africa or hadn't you noticed that fact. "
But you were not refering to the tuaregs were you Marcus. Be honest.
Touched a nerve there didn't I. People have said this to you before haven't they.
Ever wondered why?
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207. At 10:08pm on 03 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"British and European are not races. I suggest you invest in a dictionary and look up the definition of words before you make accusations. Whatever derogatory remarks I've made, they had nothing to do with race."
We all know races do not exist, but bigoted rascists do, don't they marcus?
Remember your comment to the effect that you did not like Europeans because of their "colour".
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ref #213
If Hugo was so popular why he does he censor or shut down media that oppose his policies.
Why does Morales steal from part of the country so much that those 4 provinces would like to suceed.
Don't delude youself that these two have the courage to debate in a fair election.
As toxic as MSNBC is, Bush never censored it.
Venezuelans Bolivians follow Houndures heroice example.
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Simple Simon;
"Oh you don't think slavery is a crime? Why is that. Because US slaves were black?"
And just whom do you think brought black slaves to the new world to work the cotton plantations and perform other menial chores as slaves? The British for the most part. I'm sure the French and perhaps some other Europeans like the Spanish did too but for the most part American slavery has the words "Made In Great Britain" stamped all over it in indellalbe ink. Even after slavery was abolished in Britain itself, slave trading by Brits was not for a while longer. The British continued to kidnap them in Africa, bring them to the Caribbean and Bermuda for transhipment to the Southern colonies. It was part of the slave, rum, cotton triangle they created for profit. It took America nearly 100 years to undo that cultural legacy Britain left us. I for one am glad we're rid of most of it.
You really are a fool Simple Simon;
"Remember your comment to the effect that you did not like Europeans because of their "colour"."
Most Europeans are racially caucausian...just like me. It's not the color of their skin I was referring to, its their dark, dark, jealous hate filled hearts deep within them that will never change. It's the way they color their view of life and of other people. It's why they have had so many wars. They do nothing of value themselves, they just mostly steal from others. Now they will be getting their just deserts. They are being hit by the perfect storm.
Squirrely
If I had broken the House Rules because my postings were racist, the moderators would not have allowed them to be published. I would never waste being offensive on something so trivial as an accident of nature as race is. My barbs are reserved for people who are far more deserving because of what they have made of themselves, not because of how they were born. People who claim to be educatatd and know their own history. Europeans are high among them. Only when they look at themselves in the mirror, they close their eyes most of the time because what they see if they are honest about it is unbearable. The smartest ones leave. 10% of the indigenous population of Britain has left for good according to BBC. The one thing though they can never run away from is themselves. Not even 60000 miles from home in far away Oregon.
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I'd just like to say that I'm in complete agreement with #187. It's the most sensible thing I've ever read on here.
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Ref 218, Magic
"If Hugo was so popular why he does he censor or shut down media that oppose his policies."
Your simplistic opinions reflect an absolute lack of familiarity with life in other parts of the world. I would not be surprised if your exposure of countries like Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador, or Honduras is limited to what you see in Hollywood movies and the TV Travel channel.
A couple of months ago one of my cousins called me from Caracas and voiced opinions of Chavez that make your comments look like an endorsement of his policies. When I asked him if it was safe to talk like over the phone (I remember how things were in Franco's Spain in 1946) he told me that people could say whatever they wished about Chavez, his policies, and protest with absolute freedom. The only concern is not Chavez, the military, or the police, but Chavez's supporters who often react violently to any criticism of their leader. BTW, my cousin does not need government handouts to support his lavish lifestyle.
You must make an effort to familiarize yourself with the living conditions and the lack of hope that characterizes life for the majority of the people in Latin America before passing judgment on those who are trying to help the masses. Yes, feudal landlords are seeing their vast land holdings appropriated and distributed among impoverished peasants, but as offensive as land appropriations may be to us I think it is important to understand the difference between life and opportunities in the USA and life in countries where people barely have enough to eat, illiteracy is the norm, many live in shacks not fit for a dog, and most had lost hope of ever achieving what most of us take for granted until people like Chavez, Morales, Correa, Lula and others were elected.
You may not like them, but their people do and that's what counts. Regarding the elite, some of them, including one of my cousins, is planning to sell everything and move to the USA. Who knows, if that top 2% of Latin Americans who own and control everything in their countries invest enough in the USA they may have a greater impact on our economy than the stimulus package, while the other 98% enjoy three meals a day, have a roof over their heads, and are able to send their children to school so that they can achieve what circumstances denied them.
I know, they are short, dark skin, some are native Americans or mixed blood, most are Catholic and, besides - ghasp - they speak Spanish; but guess what, they are a lot more popular than the gringos whose main goal is to make money when they travel to that part of the world. I was one of them. Enjoy Disney world!
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Question to the geographically educated here:
Just wondering what 'home' Oregon is 60.000 miles from? Or why you have to go round the world eight times to get to it?
(I thought oregon was the 'erb you put on pizzas anyway? Excuse my hignorance. I'm only a European, so I never 'ad the hadvantages of a proper eddication.)
Sorry, I'd meant to write something to do with palintology, but that just caught my eye.
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I think that marcus fella should make a stand by refusing to use our language.
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#215. saintDominick: "The question now is: where is Sarah Palin? More to the point: what does she have in mind? I think it is odd that she would quit her job 3.5 before the next presidential election."
Perhaps there's some dirt about to surface - for example, is that baby really hers? Like Governor Sanford, perhaps she has has some dark and hidden secret which may shortly be revealed. On the other hand, possibly she's bored with the entire business of politics and wants to settle down and be a normal Alaskan. I can't believe that she has the chutzpah to consider herself worthy of the Republican nomination - would America stomach more of her winking and folksy approach? The President would make mincemeat out of her in a debate and it would be cruel to pit her against him. Probably a knockout in the first round.
#219. MarcusAureliusII: "just whom do you think brought black slaves to the new world to work the cotton plantations and perform other menial chores as slaves?"
If you consider it from a strictly objective standpoint, perhaps slave traders actually did some long-term good. Where would Black Americans be had their forebears not been transported across the ocean? Quite possibly starving, ill-educated, riddled with HIV. Every cloud has a silver lining and although slaves suffered terribly, their offspring have done rather better than many of those still in Africa. Sometimes good does come out of bad.
"It's not the color of their skin I was referring to, its their dark, dark, jealous hate filled hearts deep within them that will never change."
Hate of what?
"They do nothing of value themselves, they just mostly steal from others."
Marcus, even you must see the plain stupidity and ignorance of that statement - there's a huge list of scientific and cultural contributions made by Europeans which are far, far greater than anything done by America and its citizens during its short history. Exaggeration only goes so far and you've overstepped the line by a mile - indeed, several.
"10% of the indigenous population of Britain has left for good according to BBC."
This statistic has been repeated several time and, for those interested, they may care to read this and follow the links. One thing is for sure, they don't all end up in the USA.
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223. At 02:14am on 04 Jul 2009, HabitualHero wrote:
I think that marcus fella should make a stand by refusing to use our language.
Thought he had. Most of what he writes is all Greek to me anyway.
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JopeineApples #202. . .
Thanks for the compliments! For my own sanity, is America the only one? I mean other democratic countries have done the same things (all be it probably to a lesser extent and not nearly as often) when faced with similar situations in the past, right? I mean we're all human. Right? Or is America the only country capable of completely unnecessarily flipping out over the smallest thing? Be honest. I can take it.
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215. At 00:15am on 04 Jul 2009, saintDominick wrote:
"The question now is: where is Sarah Palin? More to the point: what does she have in mind? I think it is odd that she would quit her job 3.5 before the next presidential election"
""We know we can effect positive change outside government at this moment in time on another scale and actually make a difference for our priorities" [Palin] Whatever that means. Sounds almost like taking to the backwoods with an armoury . . .
I presume she's taken her own anti-big-government pronouncements seriously. After all, if you're against government, why be a governor? Why be a president? (Snag: she hasn't seen where the argument leads, yet, obviously.)
William Krystol thinks it's a 'shrewd move'. Well, that's that then, political career definitely over. Mud wrestling five times a night in Las Vegas, then.
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squirrelbrain, it wouldn't matter if you went 6000 miles from Britain to Oregon or 60 million miles from Britain to the planet Mars. No matter how far away you go, you will never escape yourself. How you can live with that is beyond me. How happy I am to be me and not you.
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#148
Sean,
Because Marcus has a lot of time on his hands to spew his own rather sad opinions and that while trying to hold a conversation with the ignorant and/or irrelevant in our society is a noble cause, it eventually starts to be boring.
Bored Sam
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# 221, Saint D.
In Castro's Cuba there are no homeless children and women on the streets, even with a US criminal embargo still in place and supported by the military and the fascists in Latin American. These capitalist Neo-fascists have been or are on the payroll of the CIA and foreign corporate interests. The facts are, Castro, El Che, Chavez, Morales are admired icons in the Americas. Castro's Cuba went on to send doctors, scholars, teachers and in some cases, military advisors. The right wing fascists in the USA must learn that the world has change and it will not go back. Honduras is a good example of it! Military takeover, regardless of ideology, is abhored in Latin America.
Although Communism is the not an answer to Latin American socialism, it's still far better than what the far right fascism and it's capitalists can ever do. These right wing capitalists (much like those in the USA and other parts of the world) are the ones who lived on the blood, tears and sweat of the poor, the innocent and the sick. For six years the world experienced the blood letting in the Mideast just too please Neo-conservative capitalism. In the long run every one involved lost, especially children.
The "luv'ble" Ronald Reagan term in office speaking of the homeless said:
The homeless loves the outdoors." When he was reminded that most of the homeless were American children and mothers, he pointed to his ear and made a motion of not being able to hear because of the "noise." Even his daughter denounced him for that statement!
Yes, indeed, far too many "Americans" forget very soon or they just flatly ignore their history. The truth is another matter, they have no concept of what it means. They are the very reason why Obama won and won big time!
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#223, HH
He is just an equal opportunity annoyance. That is what he knows best.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#229,
QED #228.
Sam
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229 Sam.
You've got a point there for sure. Was having that very thought on the other string, too.
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#215 saintDominick,
I also find it odd that she would quit. I do not see an upside politically. It reminds me of when Ross Perot quit his Presidential campaign, only to restart it later. He lost all credibility.
With that said, I have never seen a VP candidate from a losing ticket hounded and vilified in the press, mocked constantly on TV, and subject to one nuisance lawsuit after the other the way this woman was; especially this long after an election. I think its shameful the way she was treated.
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#219. MarcusAureliusII: "If I had broken the House Rules because my postings were racist, the moderators would not have allowed them to be published."
That doesn't follow at all. Calling a fellow poster a liar seems to me to be equally egregious and yet it stands. However, the Moderators do appear to be particularly sensitive and politically correct this evening (or morning, BST) since my post at #224 has been "referred". If it ever appeared I cannot tell, so whether someone complained or it was removed because it was considered to be offensive, the catch-all reason for the suppression of legitimate opinion, I do not know. Fortunately I retained a copy, the majority of which follows below.
#215. saintDominick: "The question now is: where is Sarah Palin? More to the point: what does she have in mind? I think it is odd that she would quit her job 3.5 before the next presidential election."
Perhaps there's some dirt about to surface - for example, is that baby really hers? Like Governor Sanford, perhaps she has has some dark and hidden secret which may shortly be revealed. On the other hand, possibly she's bored with the entire business of politics and wants to settle down and be a normal Alaskan. I can't believe that she has the chutzpah to consider herself worthy of the Republican nomination - would America stomach more of her winking and folksy approach? The President would make mincemeat out of her in a debate and it would be cruel to pit her against him. Probably a knockout in the first round.
#219. MarcusAureliusII:"It's not the color of their skin I was referring to, its their dark, dark, jealous hate filled hearts deep within them that will never change."
Hate of what?
"They do nothing of value themselves, they just mostly steal from others."
Marcus, even you must see the plain stupidity and ignorance of that statement - there's a huge list of scientific and cultural contributions made by Europeans which are far, far greater than anything done by America and its citizens during its short history. Exaggeration only goes so far and you've overstepped the line by a mile - indeed, several.
"10% of the indigenous population of Britain has left for good according to BBC."
This statistic has been repeated several times and, for those interested, they may care to read this and follow the links. One thing is for sure, they don't all end up in the USA.
The portion which was "referred" was my response to the question "just whom do you think brought black slaves to the new world to work the cotton plantations and perform other menial chores as slaves?" I had suggested that over time, good can come of bad and that African Americans have fared better than those remaining in their ancestral home, where today many are starving, ill-educated and riddled with HIV - including about 24 million people in Sub-Sahara Africa. But that was too sensitive for our omniscient and anonymous moderators who, with regret, stifle discussion without explanation.
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#221, SaintD, as per your quote:
"You may not like them, but their people do and that's what counts. Regarding the elite, some of them, including one of my cousins, is planning to sell everything and move to the USA. Who knows, if that top 2% of Latin Americans who own and control everything in their countries invest enough in the USA they may have a greater impact on our economy than the stimulus package, while the other 98% enjoy three meals a day, have a roof over their heads, and are able to send their children to school so that they can achieve what circumstances denied them."
Sadly, as I'm sure you experienced in Spain, polarization is the root cause
of any society's demise. It's only when the 2% and the 98% work together to
make things better that true prosperity results. Venezuela lost that battle
long ago.
I've never been to any of these places, but, from what I hear, Costa Rica
is a much better model. Perhaps not having any oil helped point them
in the right direction.
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Marcus .Interesting you say Oregon. I have friends there,what a small world. as for racism that would be the attacks on other races you make all the time. so don't bother.
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No rash decision. you may be right that america is not the only one.
but then it does go overboard. just look ,after the devastating attacks of 9/11 they started two wars in the end.
You'd be hard pressed to find precedence for that.
unless you went back in history or compare it to some despotic ruler somewhere.
I do say that there may be many good things about the USA but a moderated response is not one of them.
Still the politicians have to deal with the likes of Marcus all the time if he is as old as his name suggests then maybe that has been the reason for all the bloodshed in it's history.
He is remarkable in his ability to forget the US civil war.
If he is american. I see he may not be. Some sy he is French and trying to make americans look bad.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
224. At 02:34am on 04 Jul 2009, David_Cunard
This comment has been referred to the moderators. Explain.
It is now 7:26am (BST) and not an e-mail of explanation as to why this post has been "referred". A shift change perhaps, but five hours should be sufficient to make a decision. Simply not good enough!
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Sarah Palin is to resign? Ok I thought, Justin but then the suggestion is it for a "long run up" to running for the next President opportunity?
I take it that was a poor joke? No offence Ms Palin
Forgive the puns - but North to Half Baked Alaska or what? Baked Alaska is a fabulous dish - cold (Ice cream) and hot (meringue) and delicious.
You do a good job as Governor - gig ends next year doesn't it? and then you apply for promotion in my world. So I will see if that is Ms Palins game plan and not a dreamt up Dire Media scenario!
I must stop watching America - it is "doing my 'ead in".
Happy Independence Day everyone!
Now if I can interject a selfish - very selfish point......... how about my......... lol
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One word that describes Palin's resignation: Bizarre
However, I agree with Rodidog's assessment of the shameful way Palin and her immediate family were treated. I wish her and her family well.
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219 & 236:
My general knowledge of the slave policies of the European powers is limited to what I have learned from Louisiana history. However, the flags of France, Spain, Britain, and the US have all flown over my state.
As part of a brief history of French Louisiana, slavery was legal but not particularly important or useful because Haiti was a far more important and productive slave colony. The most important thing that happened was that at the end of the French period the Code Noir was enacted by Louis 14th and then used by the Spanish when they were given Louisiana. When Louisiana became part of the US, the laws changed and actually became stricter, so I will compare the Spanish Slave Society of Creole-Frenchmen to the later American Slave Society.
The Spanish Slave Society of Louisiana was a 3 tiered hierarchy where Free-blacks were legitimate and common place because of a tradition of manumission and self-purchase; slaves were also allowed legal rights in court. Though slaves couldn't testify against their master, it was legal for any free individual to testify against the master for claims of torture and murder.
The American Slave Society, based on the British model, was a 2 tiered hierarchy where Free-blacks were considered to be illegitimate or outside the system because self-purchase was not legal and manumission was outlawed by the 1840s to bring Louisiana into compliance with the rest of the nation. This change in law put the well established Free-blacks of Louisiana in a peculiar social position with even fewer legal rights than they had under the Code Noir. It's no wonder why Free-blacks were frequently kidnapped and sold into slavery.
Ok, I'm done talking about that unfortunate piece of history for now.
Happy 4th of July!
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Re: 666 MarcusTheBeast
The beast is not a person or a human organization. The beast is Satan himself.
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233. SamTyler1969 wrote: #229, QED #228.
I think he's got me mixed up with somebody else. Or just all mixed up. But I'm glad he's not me, too. Or do I mean I'm glad I'm not him?
(I always had trouble with metaphysics, what with being brought up in Yerp an' all.)
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Dear Justin,
Where is Obama is a correct question from you.
He is still in America,studying,analysing,discussing,listening and watching of what is happening in America and rest of the world.
After assuming as a President of America,he gave a wonderful speech on current economic positions,bail out packages for banks, announced his new health care programmes,curtailing tax benefits to her foreign companies,arresting recession in economic scenes. and so on.
I think that he is a man of action.
He is neither capitalist nor socialist.But he is man of modern ideas and trying level best to get America in to main stream in regard to prdouction,exports,educational supremacy,investment in infrastructure,nationalism,reduction of racial division and wants to have meaniful relations with middle east and to south american nations.
What we can expect as a President of America.
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ref #221
I noticed you refused to answer the question of Chave's shutting down oposing media.
How come when leftist leaders or dictators quell disent by sending political opponents to mental hospital having trumped up charges set or sending dignity battalions to burn home it is ok?
Why when a moderate or conservative group expell a leader subverting the constittion it is all right for the OAS to dictate terms. Why didn't the represetative of the OAS at least come in with an open mind.
As some who has traveled to Latin America several time don't presume to educate. Chavez is held in contempt by most people who have access to non state controlled media
In regard to respect, Morales did not even try to have a polite or mutually respectful relation with the U.S but insulted us from day 1.
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Justin sweetie come home!
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In regard to Sarah Palin, I don't think she was viable for 2012. Fairly or unfairly she suffers from a Dan Quayle stigma and the media has a visceral dislike for her that exceeds the normal bias.
The timing of her resignation is suspect, I don't want to see her get her own talk show. Huckabee is bad enough on Fox.
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From the period of American Presidential election campagins, i have noticed Sarah Palin!s words from TV channels,inteview with journalists,press reporters ,and with her party supporters on interval basis.
Her speech is just like general persons spoken words.
Repulicans thought that ,she is a woman ,and more or less charismatic sudden spells like Mrs.Clinton,and expected more women votes in favour of Republican candidates.But that was failed.
Whereas, Mr.Mccain is a wonderful,matured personality for delievering the goods in a well polished ways.
But he is not a big crowd puller.
Any democratic process of forming Governors,Vice-Presidents and President in American political system ,requires a dynamic,pleasing ,electrifing the audiences from time to time.
The same theory had given more weightages in U.K.!s Prime Minister elections,for example,John Major,Tony Blair,Wilson,Mrs.Indira Gandhi,Mr.Rakul Gandhi -their attention to masses are great.
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Canard, you've posted some truely dumb things before but this one really tops them all;
"If you consider it from a strictly objective standpoint, perhaps slave traders actually did some long-term good. Where would Black Americans be had their forebears not been transported across the ocean? Quite possibly starving, ill-educated, riddled with HIV."
You really are out of your mind. Britain's excuse for slavery. Tell that to a black judge in America and you'd get life in prison without parole...for a parking ticket. What next, an apology for the holocaust too by saying Israel wouldn't exist if it hadn't happened? This is pure Eruopean mentality, a world of irrational hate filled people who can justify anything. Wilson should have listened to Washington and stayed out of WWI. Perhaps WWII and the cold war never would have happened.
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Ref 248, Magic
"I noticed you refused to answer the question of Chavez's shutting down oposing media."
Hugo Chavez threatened to shut down Radio Caracas TV (RCTV) when they called for a national strike and an insurgency. Governments throughout the world would do the same under the circumstances and would not tolerate attempts to overthrow a democratically elected government or threaten the security of the country.
For the record, I do not support Hugo Chavez, but not because of the reasons you cite. I dislike his immature rhetoric, which reminds me of Ws, and I believe he is a megalomaniac determined to supplant Simon Bolivar in history books by giving money and free oil to other nations while there is still so much to be done in his own country. Instead of trying to unify the country he has marginalized the Venezuelan society to the point that there is no civil discourse or cooperation, and many talented Venezuelans are leaving one of the richest countries in the Americas to invest their money in countries like the USA.
My point in previous posts on this subject was simply to state that Chavez enjoys the support of the overwhelming majority of the population of Venezuela, and that his electoral victories have been legitimate. As a result he can not be called a dictator.
The trend to the left that is evident throughout Latin America is not an accident, and it is not too difficult to understand. We have used that part of the world as our backyard and have imposed our will and exploited their resources for decades with absolute impunity. With the US and rapid decline economically, many countries have decided to put in place the policies that they believe are best for them, regardless of how objectionable they may be to us, and are actively looking for wealthy business partners. If we are not careful, China will be the dominant trading partner in Latin America within a decade or two.
What happened in Honduras is like a replay of the past. Manuel Zelaya, the democratically elected President of Honduras, called for a referendum to ammend the Constitution to, among other things, allow Presidents to serve more than one term. The Speaker of the House and the military did not like what he proposed, which would have allowed the population to change a Constitution drafted and put in place by the elite that control all facets of life in Honduras, and sent him into exile. The new "government" subsequently withdrew from the OAS when it became apparent that they were going to be suspended.
Don't confuse military coup d'etats, and armed soldiers patrolling the streets of Tegucigalpa, with popular movements designed to improve the standard of living of the impoverished masses that constitute the majority of the population in most Latin American countries. Lauding military coup d'etat, military dictatorships, regime change, political assassinations, and imposing our values on others is undemocratic and can only be described as imperialism.
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To#177 Kscurmudgeon
Thank you for your reply.
I believe we are in fundamental agreement about the use of generalization to place people in pigeon holes. Humans are unique and complex.
I understand more clearly now what you were saying in your earlier post about California. It is perhaps more of a concept or a 'golden ideal' and it upsets people to see it wallowing in failure. As I said in my 'defence' post, I have faith that the good people living there will work this all out one way or another.
The human spirit is a powerful thing. I believe that we have both lived enough years to have experienced both failure and triumph and to have seen this in others. I have faith in people and remain ever hopeful.
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Ref 236, David
"On the other hand, possibly she's bored with the entire business of politics and wants to settle down and be a normal Alaskan."
I doubt it. I believe she is convinced that she has a chance to win the GOP nomination and become President. She attracts large enthusiastic crowds of evangelicals and far right conservatives wherever she goes; and many find her folksy speech, naivete, and personal charisma, and religious convictions very appealing. I think we are going to see her in fundraisers, conventions, and on the screen from now on. Whether or not she is electable is a different matter.
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ref 3253
You left out a few facts. Chavez has blocked renewal of a liscence critical news orginization critical of him. The Radio Caracas call for a general strike is perfectly legitimate There has not been a open election in Venezuela since the people follishly elected him the first time.
A free election means equal access to the media not free hours of goverment propganda.
Can you imagine either President Obama or former President Bush restricting the opposing party access to media.
That is why autocrats like Chavez, Ortegra and Morales are so worthy of contempt. Right now there is no right wing autocrats only left wing ones in this hemisphere
In the case of Houndures Zelaya should have been brought up in charges for violating counstition not exiled. The majority of Hondurians support his ouster. Read the latest issue of the Economist which we may be able to agree as a fairly unbiased source on news reports
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JopeinApples #239. . .
On the issue of Iraq, as I've stated on here numerous times before, I wholeheartedly agree with you that one would have to go back to the days of Nero and Hitler to find an example of a leader that would react so childishly and immaturely to a solitary event, no matter how tragic that event may have been. However, I do feel that since the 9/11 attackers (though from Saudi Arabia) had received nearly all of their training in Afghanistan, that the war in Afghanistan that succeeded 9/11 was justifyed. Perhaps you don't, and that's ok, But as one who witnessed the attacks, I do.
Happy Independence day to all and here's to our unalienable rights not being curtailed and/or stripped from us in the name of security anymore in the future!!
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219. At 01:46am on 04 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Simple Simon;
"Oh you don't think slavery is a crime? Why is that. Because US slaves were black?"
And just whom do you think brought black slaves to the new world to work the cotton plantations and perform other menial chores as slaves? The British for the most part. I'm sure the French and perhaps some other Europeans like the Spanish did too but for the most part American slavery has the words "Made In Great Britain" stamped all over it in indellalbe ink. Even after slavery was abolished in Britain itself, slave trading by Brits was not for a while longer. The British continued to kidnap them in Africa, bring them to the Caribbean and Bermuda for transhipment to the Southern colonies. It was part of the slave, rum, cotton triangle they created for profit. It took America nearly 100 years to undo that cultural legacy Britain left us. I for one am glad we're rid of most of it. 2
Sorry Marcus not an answer the US founding fathers raped and sold slaves, while blathering about equality.
Do you think these activities were a crime?
I think your black US countrymen would have a simple answer - don't you?
"You really are a fool Simple Simon"
At least I have don't have a problem with black people Marcus and I don't wriggle about trying to justify American slavery.
Remember your comment to the effect that you did not like Europeans because of their "colour"."
"Most Europeans are racially caucausian...just like me."
I knew your colour Marcus you were very unlikely to be black or admit it if you were.
" It's not the color of their skin I was referring to"
No not much
When youu talked about Africa you were talking about the Tuaregs not the vast number of black africans weren't you.
When I talk about Americans I am of course talking about the Nez Pearce Americans
Pathetic even for you why not just admit it. There are plenty of sites where you can sound off about non-caucasians to your heart's content. Many of them American.
I think hating people because you do not like their colour is freankly pretty low. But even lower are you pathetic attempts to pretend otherwise.
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252. At 2:56pm on 04 Jul 2009, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
Canard, you've posted some truely dumb things before but this one really tops them all;
"If you consider it from a strictly objective standpoint, perhaps slave traders actually did some long-term good. Where would Black Americans be had their forebears not been transported across the ocean? Quite possibly starving, ill-educated, riddled with HIV."
You really are out of your mind. Britain's excuse for slavery. Tell that to a black judge in America and you'd get life in prison without parole"
And you tell the judge you do not think US slavery was a crime,he might sentence you nice whiute caucasian body to undergo the same treatment.
I know I would weep for you
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256. At 3:47pm on 04 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref 3253
You left out a few facts. Chavez has blocked renewal of a liscence critical news orginization critical of him. The Radio Caracas call for a general strike is perfectly legitimate There has not been a open election in Venezuela since the people follishly elected him the first time.
A free election means equal access to the media not free hours of goverment propganda.
Can you tell us where this happens? No country in the world allows equal time in the media to both sides.
In the US the side with the most cash, usually the republicans get the most time.
"Can you imagine either President Obama or former President Bush restricting the opposing party access to media."
The Republicans try to buy up the available slots don't they?
"That is why autocrats like Chavez, Ortegra and Morales are so worthy of contempt. Right now there is no right wing autocrats only left wing ones in this hemisphere"
But right-wing ones would be OK?
"In the case of Houndures Zelaya should have been brought up in charges for violating counstition not exiled. The majority of Hondurians support his ouster. Read the latest issue of the Economist which we may be able to agree as a fairly unbiased source on news reports"
The Economist! You of all people think the Economist is unbiased! After what it says about your beloved, can do no wrong, Israel!
This is a conversion on a Damascene scale.
Or else you arguments are so threadbare and your principles so non-existant that you shamelessly use sources you basically despise for not sharing your extreme views as long as they say something you think you can use.
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257. At 4:00pm on 04 Jul 2009, NoRashDecisions wrote:
JopeinApples #239. . .
On the issue of Iraq, as I've stated on here numerous times before, I wholeheartedly agree with you that one would have to go back to the days of Nero and Hitler to find an example of a leader that would react so childishly and immaturely to a solitary event, no matter how tragic that event may have been. However, I do feel that since the 9/11 attackers (though from Saudi Arabia) had received nearly all of their training in Afghanistan, that the war in Afghanistan that succeeded 9/11 was justifyed. Perhaps you don't, and that's ok, But as one who witnessed the attacks, I do."
What rubbish. What training. They were taught how to fly major aircraft in the US.
And apparently no one bothered to do the most elementary of checks as to why they wanted to learn, what they intended to do with their training and who was going to employ them.
Some of us were astonished at this hand over cash no questions asked mentality of the US.
All that happened on 9/11 was that people crashed aircraft into tall buildings.
The only surprising thing was that no one had thought of doing this before, it required no great skill or cunning once one learned to fly the aircraft.
And apparently in the US you simply turn up write a cheque, and all's well.
Hopefully one cannot simply walk into tank, missile etc training schools in the same Huckleberry Finn like way.
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#252. MarcusAureliusII: "You really are out of your mind. Britain's excuse for slavery."
You really don't read what is written, do you? I suggested that while slavery was awful, in the long term possibly some good came of it for their descendants. Had any immigrant, forced or not, stayed in their native country, their lives and those of generations of their offspring would be entirely different. Other than slavery, there was no practical way for Africans to migrate to North America. This is not a defence of slavery (which is indefensible, going back to ancient times in Egypt) but rather a consideration of what would likely have happened had not they been transported against their will.
You provide an excellent example: "Tell that to a black judge in America and you'd get life in prison without parole."
Had his ancestors remained in Africa, then he would not be in that same position.
"What next, an apology for the holocaust too by saying Israel wouldn't exist if it hadn't happened? "
The Holocaust was not directly responsible for the creation of the State of Israel; as far back as the Balfour Declaration (and before) it was conceded that Jews should again have a national homeland.
"This is pure Eruopean mentality, a world of irrational hate filled people who can justify anything."
From where do you get the "hate-filled" description of Europeans? Who or what are they supposed to hate? They might despise those like yourself who continually denigrate the achievements and inhabitants of the European continent. I don't see why you don't extend your rants to Australia, peopled largely by those of European ancestry, or is the geographical area important to you? One wonders what the circumstances of your departure from Europe were, so misplaced are your views. Something dreadful must have happened and which formed the basis for your pernicious and offensive opinions.
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260. At 5:13pm on 04 Jul 2009, Simon21 wrote:
256. At 3:47pm on 04 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref 3253
You left out a few facts. Chavez has blocked renewal of a liscence critical news orginization critical of him. The Radio Caracas call for a general strike is perfectly legitimate There has not been a open election in Venezuela since the people follishly elected him the first time.
A free election means equal access to the media not free hours of goverment propganda.
Can you tell us where this happens? No country in the world allows equal time in the media to both sides.
In the US the side with the most cash, usually the republicans get the most time.
( You miss the point, neither U.S party in power would shut down a news orginization if they did not hold the party line)
"Can you imagine either President Obama or former President Bush restricting the opposing party access to media."
The Republicans try to buy up the available slots don't they?
(What slots? Are you refering to them trying to buy commercial time during Obama Healthcare town hall meeting)
"That is why autocrats like Chavez, Ortegra and Morales are so worthy of contempt. Right now there is no right wing autocrats only left wing ones in this hemisphere"
But right-wing ones would be OK?
(No but I was pointing out the claim about resement about right wing dictators in Latin america is history all the autocrats are left wing currently)
"In the case of Houndures Zelaya should have been brought up in charges for violating counstition not exiled. The majority of Hondurians support his ouster. Read the latest issue of the Economist which we may be able to agree as a fairly unbiased source on news reports"
The Economist! You of all people think the Economist is unbiased! After what it says about your beloved, can do no wrong, Israel!
( read my post I am talking about news not the Economist editorials, but unlike say Newsweek they don't ideolgogy inteferer with news reporting)
This is a conversion on a Damascene scale.
Or else you arguments are so threadbare and your principles so non-existant that you shamelessly use sources you basically despise for not sharing your extreme views as long as they say something you think you can use.
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( I don't have to complain unlike other posts it is not a personal attack, BTW in regard to Israel; as much as people may despise Bibi and Libermann they are far more honorable than any leader/terrorist the Palestinians have ever chosen)
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248. At 11:52am on 04 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #221
Why when a moderate or conservative group expell a leader subverting the constittion it is all right for the OAS to dictate terms. Why didn't the represetative of the OAS at least come in with an open mind."
Are you saying you should have an open mind about democracy?
Democracy is ok for people like your exalted privileged self but not for "lesser peoples" like the Hondurans?
How long have you and Mr Mugabe been sharing views?
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241. David_Cunard,
The BBC doesn't send e-mails for referred comments, but for removed comments. Sometimes it takes weeks for those e-mails to arrive - by which time the debate is generally over. Anyway, I see that your 224 has been reinstated.
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263. At 6:17pm on 04 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
260. At 5:13pm on 04 Jul 2009, Simon21 wrote:
256. At 3:47pm on 04 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref 3253
You left out a few facts. Chavez has blocked renewal of a liscence critical news orginization critical of him. The Radio Caracas call for a general strike is perfectly legitimate There has not been a open election in Venezuela since the people follishly elected him the first time.
A free election means equal access to the media not free hours of goverment propganda.
Can you tell us where this happens? No country in the world allows equal time in the media to both sides.
( You miss the point, neither U.S party in power would shut down a news orginization if they did not hold the party line)
ANSWER THE QUESTION DON'T RUN AWAY.
THE US GOVERNMENT SHUT DOWN PAPERS IN IRAQ WHEN THEY SPOKE OUT. MUCH LESS WHAT IT GETS UP TO IN THE US ITSELF -ARE YOU HONESTLY SO NAIVE?
The Republicans try to buy up the available slots don't they?
(What slots? Are you refering to them trying to buy commercial time during Obama Healthcare town hall meeting)
NO I AM REFERRING TO STANDARD PRACTICE IN US ELECTIONS - DENYING YOUR OPPONENT A CHANCE TO SPEAK IS PART OF US PRACTICE (AND NOT ONLY IN THE US, RIGHT WING PARTIES EVERYWHERE SEEK TO BUY ELECTIONS).
YES THEY USE MONEY NOT LAW, BUT THE RESULT IS THE SAME.
"The Economist! You of all people think the Economist is unbiased! After what it says about your beloved, can do no wrong, Israel!"
( read my post I am talking about news not the Economist editorials, but unlike say Newsweek they don't ideolgogy inteferer with news reporting)
YOU BELIEVE THE ECONOMIST NEWS REPORTS ON ISRAEL - ASTONISHING!!!! I MUST APOLOGISE i THOUGHT IF IT WASN'T FROM DERSHOVITZ OR LIEBERMAN'S PARTY YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.
MAYBE YOU ARE GROWING UP.(
I don't have to complain unlike other posts it is not a personal attack, BTW in regard to Israel; as much as people may despise Bibi and Libermann they are far more honorable than any leader/terrorist the Palestinians have ever chosen)
YOU REGARD LIEBERMAN AS "HONORABLE" CARE TO EXPLAIN WHY?
OH DEAR THERE IS STILL A WAY TO GO.
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"I lived outside the beltway in those days (Maryland, Montgomery County, and worked in Greenbelt, MD). I believe President Reagan's domestic and foreign policies were a disaster." Saint Dom
Weren't the Democrats in charge of Congress and Senate as the majority under Reagan? Oh. some more info for you.
"For the first time in 35 years, older Americans will receive no cost-of-living increases(COLA)in their Social Security checks in 2010, according to the Congressional Budget office estimates. Thats bad news enough for many retirees living on fixed incomes. But millions of them also face much higher premiums for Medicare Part B, which covers doctor visits and out patient services." Pattrica Barry AARP Bulletin June 2009 This is just an extract, the rest can me read there. So one time payment of a Social Security stimulus package will fall far short. As the real problems are just beginning.
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Since this blog is about all things American, not only politics, I would have thought that Justin might have addressed the Michael Jackson phenomenon. Recent American news has been dominated by this almost to the exclusion of all else. If the mass outpouring of grief over the death of Princess Diana is any standard, this surely has been greater. What does that say about America and Americans? Is it a relief from the financial woes and problems of the day? The media, in all its forms, has had a heyday with it, and more to come. Tuesday won't be the end.
PS - Thanks Mods for reinstating my earlier posts, but it did take too long!
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ref #266
I said compared to the leaders who the Palestinians have chosen. Who are either terrorist and zenophobic haters or apologists for them.
Name one Palestinian leader who has made any concession to Israel, thw wronged party in the conflict.
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Norashdecision Thankyou for not getting all majicMA on me. I do understand that most feel it was the right thing to attack Afghanistan. I would have said limited ground assaults on the terrorists as part of a greater police effort would have been fine by me. but the bombing of goat boys etc when a air war takes over is unjustigfied against a nation that did not attack. it was a group within the nation. Admittedly a powerful group that had some sway because we left them to suffer after the help they gave "us" with the russians. The talliban would have had less support if we all had helped as soon as russia with drew.
265 true too. you are mistaken. do not fret it seems to have been usual so you will feel no pain.
""What next, an apology for the holocaust too by saying Israel wouldn't exist if it hadn't happened? "
The Holocaust was not directly responsible for the creation of the State of Israel; as far back as the Balfour Declaration (and before) it was conceded that Jews should again have a national homeland. "
David Cunard I do doubt that if there had not been the holocaust that so many would have accepted the terrorist stern gangs demands or the creation of Israel.
I would say that the state of israel would not have been allowed to force itself on the people of palestine if there was no Holocaust.
For starters they may not have been so keen to leave europe and their lives there if they had not been decimated.
The persecution by russia helped as well .This tactic by Marcus is a typical one. Creating a silly interpretation of your comment to get you to admit his second lie is right.Glad to see you did not mean what he interpreted you as saying.
It may not be a lie I was just having a hard time to find the right word for a deliberat untruth.
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David .We all know michelle jackson died. you want to talk celebity chat doesn't hello have a site.;)
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269. At 7:32pm on 04 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #266
I said compared to the leaders who the Palestinians have chosen. Who are either terrorist and zenophobic haters or apologists for them."
You havwe not answered the question
You therefore imply you agree with Avbigdor Liberman and consider him honorable.
Thank you now we know you for what you are.
"Name one Palestinian leader who has made any concession to Israel, thw wronged party in the conflict."
You claim Israel is wronged by the existence of the Pallestinians.
No wonder you are a disciple of Lieberman.
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ref @72
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Ref 256, Magic
"Can you imagine either President Obama or former President Bush restricting the opposing party access to media."
What do you think the US government would do if a TV or radio station called for a general strike to overthrow the US government and asked people to bear arms and overthrow and incumbent President?
"That is why autocrats like Chavez, Ortegra and Morales are so worthy of contempt. Right now there is no right wing autocrats only left wing ones in this hemisphere"
The President of Colombia and the new Junta in Honduras are as far to the right as you can get.
"In the case of Houndures Zelaya should have been brought up in charges for violating counstition not exiled. The majority of Hondurians support his ouster. Read the latest issue of the Economist which we may be able to agree as a fairly unbiased source on news reports"
Presidents are not overthrown or exiled because they propose changes to the Constitution. A referendum allows the people to endorse or reject the proposal, and Congress and the Courts write and enforce the legislation should the proposal be accepted by the majority of the people. Zelaya, like most politicians, including ours, had supporters and opponents. The fact that his opponents did not like him was no reason to send him to exile. A little over 20% of Americans approved of President Bush during his last couple of years in office, should we have exiled him in Crawford before the end of his term?
Supporting a military uprising, and soldiers patrolling cities and towns to impose their will on the citizenry is un-American although, admittedly, not unprecedented.
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ref #272
I disagee with Liberman on his loyalty oath and other matters.
But you compare him to the murderers of Hamas and the lack of integrity of Abu Mazens he comes out more positive.
Considering the Palestinians were given Gaza and the West Bank and did nothing in return why should their motives be questioned.
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269 Hamas decided to quit the very effective suicide bombers in favour of the politically more acceptable rocket attacks(because people say killing yourself for a cause is worse that killing others with a bomb,strange but true,as seen by you and many others).
The rockets killed less and probably scared less people than the suicide bombers who really are scary as there is NO warning whatso ever. I know . no bombs are better but then no raids and an economy might help with that. not attacks from helicopter gunships.
Or jets sonic boom attacks on the hearing of children.
So do celebrate independance day and get independant from Israel.
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ref #264
It seems the former President of Houndures did not want to follow the rule of his nation's counstitution.
since Mugabe is a spirtual kin to Chavez in persecuting his opponents maybe you should ask yourself that question
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#271. joepinapples: "David .We all know michelle jackson died."
Michelle Jackson?? A not-so-subtle comment on his sexuality or confusion with the First Lady, who remains very much alive?
"you want to talk celebity chat doesn't hello have a site.;)"
It may well have, but Hello! is not sold in the USA, which leads me to think you are probably British. The point was not celebrity gossip, but why has the death of a popular, yet bizarre entertainer attracted so much attention? Hardly an hour goes by without there being some "news" or "revelation" about the deceased and, for America, this outpouring is highly unusual. It is almost on a par with the deaths of popular presidents. Had Jackson died elsewhere, he might have been carried by train across the country, allowing mourners to show their respects; as it is, tens of thousands are invading the streets of Los Angeles, with roads to be cordoned off on Monday and Tuesday, disrupting normal traffic. Hopefully all these visitors will spend a lot to refill the coffers of our State; we need all the help we can get. (And what's the betting that the Governor will insinuate himself into the proceedings somehow - he needs all the help too.) The moment is unprecedented - not even Monroe or Garland's demise attracted so much coverage, hence my question.
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Michael Jackson was a good performer, but a sorry example of a human being. I find the uninterrupted coverage of his death, at the expense of relevant news, symptomatic of a media that is more focused on market share and revenues than keeping the public informed of things that have a direct impact on our lives. Unfortunately, there must be a lot of people more interested in who were the biological parents of Michael's children than events such as North Korea launching a barrage of missiles on 7/4.
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In my opinion, the appropriate reaction to 9/11 should have been an effort to determine the root causes of the hatred that influenced the attack, we should have addressed the causes for the anti-American feelings throughout the Middle East and Asia Minor, and we should have gone after those responsible for the attack. The Taleban, and the Afghan people in general, had no involvement in 9/11. The fact that the Taleban allowed low level Al Qaeda operatives to train in their country, either because they were impotent to stop them or because they sympathized with their cause, had no bearing on 9/11. That event was carried out by well educated, highly trained, and disciplined zealots. In fact, at least one of them was trained at Embry Riddle University in Florida, and not a single one was from Afghanistan or Iraq.
I would not have had a problem if we had destroyed the training camps in Afghanistan, regardless of whether or not the trainees were low level recruits, but the focus when it comes to retaliation should have been the capture of those responsible for 9/11. Everything else was a ruse to justify a war, massive military spending, a distraction to take the heat off an ambivalent President that was informed of an impending attack before it occurred, tremendous business opportunities for US corporations, and the transformation of a hapless president into a war hero to guarantee his re-election.
The world is better off without Saddam Hussein and the Taleban in power in Afghanistan, but we have no business intervening in the internal affairs of other countries and imposing our values on others, regardless of whether they want our help and way of life or not. Wasting Americans lives to help people that don't want our help is criminal, and spending two trillion dollars in crusades when we can't even pay for health care for all Americans is irresponsible to say the least.
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Marcus when you say you hate Europeans and some others too does that include all their children too?
.. because it looks really stupid to hate kids.. that's nasty man you sick in the head sicko
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279 St Dom.
America is a corporation.The dollar rules.At least it did.R.I.P
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270. joepinapples,
You are omitting large chunks of history. Jews have lived in what is now modern Israel (including the "West Bank") for the thousands of years that have elapsed since ancient Israel. There were thriving Jewish communities in places like Gaza and Hebron and a Jewish majority in Jerusalem way before 1948. Yes, the Holocaust obviously spurred the emigration of Jews to Palestine but so did the oppression the Jews suffered in Arab countries.
The drive to reestablish Israel goes back to the 19th century. And of course there is the small matter of the Balfour declaration of 1917 and the Mandate to establish a Jewish National Home in Palestine, long before the Holocaust.
If the British had not sided with the Arabs and not backtracked on their Mandate for Palestine, the history of the area might have been very different. As it happened, the British drastically restricted Jewish immigration while enabling Arab immigration, even turning ships laden with desperate Jewish refugees back into the embers of the Holocaust and torturing and hanging Jews caught fighting and plotting against the British. The "terrorists" of the Stern Gang and others were not simply struggling for the establishment of Israel, they were fighting for the very survival of their people as the British colluded with the Arabs to bring about a second Holocaust.
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ref #283
Unlike the U.S the U.K had very different policies depending on who was in power.
The problems for the U.K betraying the Balfour declaration can be laid at the feet of Ernst Brevin and Harold Beeley.
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ref #280
Dominick if you believe we should not intefere in internal affairs of other countries than why are you suporting the ousted President of Hondures. Surely the U.S and OAS should respect Hondures congress and courts decision.
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ref #279
We agree on something. Michael Jackson has got far too much press.
The threat of NK not to mention other international and domestic events are far more important
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284. MagicKirin,
My understanding is that the British began to betray the Mandate practically as soon as they had been given it. This was particularly true of the British forces in Palestine itself.
Re Michael Jackson I was never a fan, though he had undeniable talent, but the press is simply giving the public what it craves. After all, as we've been told repeatedly over the past few days, 'Thriller' was the best selling album ever.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Magic,
I am glad you disagreed about the "loyalty oaths" they were a silly idea.
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Obama is lost, so it doesn't matter where he is. A dialogue with Iran and North Korea, really man does he make Bush look good. Reduced troop strength in Iraq, better recheck those numbers too, and doubled the number of soldiers in Afganistan.
Economy is in the tank, stimulus is not working and unemployment has risen dramatically under Obama. But hey he needs a free ride so he is doing great.
As for what is coming out of congress, bills that will hurt our own country while India and China, countries we lose jobs too freely pollute.
Sure the world loves the guy, he will end US dominance and that will be great for them. Cut your pay in half, resolve yourself to follow in dads footsteps at half the pay and live in your parents house. It will be just like Europe, old and second class.
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275. At 8:57pm on 04 Jul 2009, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #272
I disagee with Liberman on his loyalty oath and other matters.
Disagree in that you beleive he hasn't gone far enough? You would like "harsher" methods.
How do you "3disagree2 with him?
"But you compare him to the murderers of Hamas and the lack of integrity of Abu Mazens he comes out more positive."
You think he is a man of integrity? Has Abu Mazen or hamas suggested loyalty oaths for Palestinians of the wriong colour and creed?
"Considering the Palestinians were given Gaza and the West Bank and did nothing in return why should their motives be questioned.
"
The whole 4million Palestinians? You question the integrity of whole "race" of people.
You consider the "Palestinians" to be inferior?
There is a word for this sort of belief isn't there
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289. At 10:25pm on 04 Jul 2009, joepinapples wrote:
Magic,
I am glad you disagreed about the "loyalty oaths" they were a silly idea.
"He hasn't said how he disagrees. He may want more extreme measures such the Israeli non-jews being forced to wear yellow crescents.
Something of this sort took place in Israel"
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283. At 9:40pm on 04 Jul 2009, TrueToo wrote:
270. joepinapples,
Our favourite clone comments again. Why do you play this pathetic game?
"You are omitting large chunks of history. Jews have lived in what is now modern Israel (including the "West Bank") for the thousands of years that have elapsed since ancient Israel. There were thriving Jewish communities in places like Gaza and Hebron and a Jewish majority in Jerusalem way before 1948."
Entirely meaningless and wrong since it assumes that jews are a "race".
It is not judaism is a smetic religion nothing more nothing less.
Arabs are not a "race" either.
Many of the Palestinians were originally jews.
"Yes, the Holocaust obviously spurred the emigration of Jews to Palestine but so did the oppression the Jews suffered in Arab countries."
And so did the British attempting to set up a European colony in a strategic area.
Orde Wingate was very clear about this during his terror campaigns against palestinian women and children.
Interestingly Goering took some of his techniques from Wingate for the Gestapo.
"If the British had not sided with the Arabs and not backtracked on their Mandate for Palestine, the history of the area might have been very different. As it happened, the British drastically restricted Jewish immigration while enabling Arab immigration, even turning ships laden with desperate Jewish refugees back into the embers of the Holocaust and torturing and hanging Jews caught fighting and plotting against the British. The "terrorists" of the Stern Gang and others were not simply struggling for the establishment of Israel, they were fighting for the very survival of their people as the British colluded with the Arabs to bring about a second Holocaust"
Are you saying you support terrorism?
And you accuse the British of wanting another holocaust?
I think you could possibly be arrested for these extremist comments, at least in the UK.
Open support of terrorism is agaisnt the law
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# 290 ironbrettw wrote:
"A dialogue with Iran and North Korea, really man does he make Bush look good."
No
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Now people don't start accusing the mods too quick here. The referal process is spurred by a complaint. obviously someone complained about the comment. If the moderators had made the decision they would have said found to break house rules.
I suspect having watched the cut and thrust of this site from afar ,that the general process of posts that counter true too's posts disappear . They are complained about. I doubt the moderators would do such a thing as a personal favour so I suspect a polling system where by it takes a number of people complaining to get one referred.
it probably gets to where there is no option under the rules . a computerised solution.the moderators don't have a choice
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Ref 290, IronBrettW
"A dialogue with Iran and North Korea, really man does he make Bush look good."
The Bush Administration had a dialogue with North Korea, with China as mediator, and was not bashful in claiming victory and statesmanship when Kim Jong Il destroyed a few old nuclear plants in exchange for bribes. In my opinion, NK is a real threat and that must be addressed before they decide to invade South Korea and wipeout our forces in that country in the process. Unfortunately, blockades will lead nowhere and bribes only give an illusion of progress that obscures the intentions of a fanatical and isolated regime. The only country capable of influencing meaningful changes in NK is China, and they don't seem seem to be too eager to find a solution. Who knows, China may be enjoying the headaches NK is giving us...
Iran is an entirely different matter. It is evident that the people of Ian want change and a rapproachment with the West, the problem there is an intransigent regime determined to force their people to embrace concept and a life style reminiscent of the middle ages. A total blockade that prevents the entry or departure of tankers from any nation may persuade the Ayatollahs and mullahs to abandon their radicalism.
The problem is, would we prevent a Chinese oil tanker from docking in Iran or leaving that country?
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Ref 285, Magic
"Dominick if you believe we should not intefere in internal affairs of other countries than why are you suporting the ousted President of Hondures. Surely the U.S and OAS should respect Hondures congress and courts decision."
There is a difference between a person voicing an opinion on something and a government ordering the invasion of another country or promoting civil unrest in other nations. I neither support nor oppose Manuel Zelaya, but as an American I respect the democratic process and do not believe a President should be ousted because he wanted people to decide whether or not the Constitution should be ammended, The fact that the military are patrolling the streets of Regucigalpa and every city and town in the country, that a curfew has been imposed, and that people are hiding in their homes while tanks and armored vehicles are rolling through the streets where civilians once walked should tell you something.
The US and the OAS do respect the wishes of the people and did, in fact, condemned the actions of the Honduran military, and asked for the safe return of Zelaya and that he be allowed to complete his term.
Can you imagine Bush being exiled if he had gone along with ammending the Constitution to make same-sex marriage illegal and our armed forces fhad been deployed to support a Junta?
Regarding the complicity of the Court, bear in mind that political and judicial appointments in some Latin American countries are not made the same way as in the USA, Canada, Australia or Europe. A small number of families control everything in countries like Honduras and Guatemala, often at the expense of the indigenous population.
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Concerning Social Security, another thing going to the wayside is the 5% matching funds for 401K's. It is now becoming common practice that this perk is being removed, you are on your own now...This report was all over the new the other day. Just when you thought the rain had stopped. Congratulations to Obama, no Afghan casualties in Afghanistan's new police action, will Obama send a nice letter to the two soldiers families who lost their lives? Get the US out.
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re: 297 sD
Let's not be naive. Political games have no place for mercy. To say that American jurisprudence is great and ought to be example followed by others shows naivety.
One needs to examine case of Illinois governor Blagojevich removal from office to see mockery made out of justice. How about the whole eight years of GW Bush reign? Being indignant about Honduras case shows either insincerity or naivety. In either case, it is up to powers of Honduras and Hondurans to decide the ultimate fate of its leaders. Using leverage, military or economic, to steer events in that country by outsiders has nothing to do with democracy. We are talking about one man removed from power by unified front of courts, congress and military of Honduras. Whether that removal has valid grounds or not, we are simply not qualified to render an "unqualified" opinion.
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"There is a difference between a person voicing an opinion on something and a government ordering the invasion of another country or promoting civil unrest in other nations. I neither support nor oppose Manuel Zelaya, but as an American I respect the democratic process and do not believe a President should be ousted because he wanted people to decide whether or not the Constitution should be ammended, The fact that the military are patrolling the streets of Regucigalpa and every city and town in the country, that a curfew has been imposed, and that people are hiding in their homes while tanks and armored vehicles are rolling through the streets where civilians once walked should tell you something." Saint Dominick
Wasn't Zelaya's term of office up? This is what I was to understand, that he didn't want to vacate the office. Lastly how as you can an American allow US weapons sales to the Republic of Georgia to subjugate people of two different ethnic groups with weapons supplied by the US, Europe, and Israel. At least Israel said they would stop. Georgia has been beating its people in the street with Obama and Biden hiding their heads in the sand on this one. Maybe the RESET button is buried like treasure...
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There won't be any Cost of Living Adjustment (COLA) for those receiving Social Security in 2010. Medicare will go up in price. I don't know why the BBC, didn't print the last blog I sent about this. Is there a bias, I mean I didn't even receive an email explaining if something was wrong.... But unless acts there will be no increase, I believe the last one was 5.8% under Bush.
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Obama will be arriving here in Moscow tomorrow.
Before even arriving, he has accused Russia of being "stuck in its Soviet past" - this from a man who is deeply stuck in the neocon wars of his predecessor.
Russians, frankly, are distrustful. George W Bush armed, equipped, planned and authorised Georgia's attack on S Ossetia - a war in which Russia had to intervene to save the lives of S Ossetia's civilian population (despite the lies - on the BBC - that were told that Russia had attacked first).
Will we see any softening of approach from the Black Bush? Will the BBC continue to report Russia as a Cold War enemy?
Frankly I am sceptical that anything will come of this meeting. The BBC's chronic anti-Russian bias and support for the Miliband Doctrine are too deep-rooted to remove.
Look forward to bigotry and hysteria ahead.
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A total blockade that prevents the entry or departure of tankers from any nation may persuade the Ayatollahs and mullahs to abandon their radicalism.
The problem is, would we prevent a Chinese oil tanker from docking in Iran or leaving that country? " Saint Dominick
A blockade is an act of war. At least it was when I went to school. Maye under Obamaism, Constitutions, and actions like this are okay. Lastly will Sotomayor recognise the disparate and blatent racial groups predominating Sports in the US? Oh, is that based on merit? Or is it racism???
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"I'm concerned at the number of programs that are being presented, the bills associated with these programs and the additional government that will be needed to execute them," the former secretary of state told CNN in an interview to air Sunday. Colin Powell
"I think one of the cautions that has to be given to the president -- and I've talked to some of his people about this -- is that you can't have so many things on the table that you can't absorb it all. And we can't pay for it all," Powell said.
"And I never would have believed that we would have budgets that are running into the multi-trillions of dollars, and we are amassing a huge, huge national debt that, if we don't pay for in our lifetime, our kids and grandkids and great grandchildren will have to pay for it." Colin Powell
"Keep it as small as possible. Keep the tax burden on the American people as small as possible, but at the same time, have government that is solving the problems of the people," Colin Powell said.
He said Obama "has to start really taking a very, very hard look at what the cost of all this is. And how much additional bureaucracy and will it be effective bureaucracy." Colin Powell
Source of quotes CNN
I agree..
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Ref 304, American Grizzly
"A blockade is an act of war. At least it was when I went to school. Maye under Obamaism, Constitutions, and actions like this are okay."
Blockades, embargoes, sanctions, freezing the funds that other nations have deposited in foreign banks, and other similar measures are, indeed, tantamount to declarations of war. Interestingly, those have been some of the most benign approaches we have taken against countries we do not like or consider a threat to our national security or national interests. As offensive and ineffective as those approaches often are, (the Cuban embargo is a good example), they are a better alternative to invading other nations.
What do you think would be the best approach to deal with Iran? Should we just ignore them and let them massacre unarmed civilians, or are you in favor of bombing them to the stone age as has been suggested in the not too distant past?
The only "Obamaism" I have heard on this issue is the need to establish a dialogue with the Iranian government designed to improve relations and defuse the turmoil in the Persian Gulf and the entire Middle East. Personally, I think dialogue with zealots is futile and will lead nowhere, thus the suggestion to take a more robust approach to deal with our medieval foes.
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Ref 305, AmericanGrizzly
Gen. Powell should have demonstrated the same wisdom when he showed the world the warehouses where Saddam Hussein was storing his nuclear weapons and WMDs, and the trucks that were being used to transport them.
He is right, of course, in suggesting that the government should limit the number of initiatives it undertakes, and the need to establish priorities that reflect both our needs and our financial limitations.
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Ref 303
"Will we see any softening of approach from the Black Bush?"
The "Black Bush" is infinitely more intelligent, honest, and pragmatic than the crooked imbeciles that pass for leaders in your country.
Hopefully the BBC moderators will give me the same latitude afforded to the original posting...
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As President Obama gets his education in the real world facing it as it is, not as he wishes or extremists on the left wing of his party paint it to be, and as he feels the pressure of the responsibility for the security and well being of the nation that elected him, he is morphing into George Bush. He may be more eloquent but the bottom line will be the same. It's not a black or white position, a liberal or conservative position he's fitting into, it's an American position. While we in the US will put nuances that differentiate them and their parties under a microscope, from the distance and perspective of foreign countries they will look more and more alike. And had Europeans listened to what Obama said last summer in Berlin instead of being mesmerized by his charisma, they would have heard a message that was even then not all that different from the message President Bush sent. Now do you really think he is going to sit down and talk to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad after what just happened? Do you really think he is going to make any concessions to Russia or North Korea? It will be all he can do to keep Japan from eventually deciding it has to have its own arsenal of nuclear weapons, a prospect that would terrify all of East Asia. It's also nice to see that he had taken more effective military action in Afghanistan while he cautiously pulls out of Iraq in much the same way President Bush planned to. He's learning.
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I think with saying Black Bush, that there isn't any difference in American foreign policy when it comes to invading with Nato, other than Bush was white, Obama is black, but no difference with this preconception that black people are more heartfelt and superior because of their history in these matters. Basically Nato was deemed to offset the Warsaw Pact, doesn't exist anymore. Now the world is stirring trouble up in old republics in order to pressure Russia and threaten its security. At least that is the consensus I see in that post. The US allows Georgian forces to brutalize the indiginous people of those areas. Again we don't belong there, Nato is now an invading force to pressure Russia until it breaks up, then it will become a free for all. China has designs for the Amur region. Either we respect indiginous people and borders, or we don't. Kosovo was an approved war to take Serbian land. How is Georgia any different, do as the US says, not as we do. Where do you draw the line? Iraq will fragment, possibly into Kurdistan, which the Allies in WWII betrayed they were promised a state (Turkey consistantly violated, or were granted bombing during the no fly zone). US planes patrolled the no fly zone, and let the Turks bomb Kurds? Nice policy/This was either Clinton/Bush 1 or both. Sunni Iraq will probably secede, and Shite Iraq which may join Iran. Biden is there contrary to his original thoughts, now Biden says it should stay together, flip flop. Obama/Biden admin foreign policy flop patience is wearing thin. More escalation in the area, more money, more blood. Where is Obama hiding as usual, until Americans speak out, then Obama will chose the political expediate method, of being all things to all people, ala Clinton. But not a leader, but the quintessential politician running for election. Until the bills of his grandiose delusions hit the bottom line that the US is broke,rudderless, for having wasted blood,money,and are adrift with no one to blame but themselves for failing to produce a leader, rather than a politican. With the burden left to the younger generations to deal with.
Congratulations to the man in charge for failing to deal with his own parties delusions as well as his own. I especially love these town meetings where people are selected and prearranged in this one sided exchange. All smoke an mirrors......except for the red ink, and dead these are tragically too real.
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Powell was provided intelligence, that all concerned, even Congress and the Senate, along with the President. All believed it presented a clear and present danger. Even the Democrats rallied this cause. If the information was wrong, then it was wrong. But the actions were warrented by all involved. All Powell did was present what the US had at the time.
So now you attack the messenger. Well Obama has a new critic, I think Powell's credentials are fine in this observation. Bravo.
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As far as being pragmatic,honest, and intelligent. Obama lied about AIG bonuses, can't figure out how to pay for all this pie in the sky, intelligent. HA. Obama is shopping for a new non racist church, to put distance between him and Wright. Pragmatic, honest, intelligent must be lavish praise from the Messiah's flock. "None are so blind, as he who will not see." Or if you prefer "In the valley of the blind the one-eyed witchdoctor is king."
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oh and by the way the Russian said the US could fly troops into Afghanistan. I mean we did back Osama, so the least they are backing Obama. As the Russian spent 10 years in Afghanistan, the US is approaching 9. It only benefits Russia as it is near their border. Ironically we are our own worst enemy. Backing Osama against the Soviet Bear, now the enemy of our enemy, is our enemy, created like a Frankenstein. Not to be confused with Al Franken past coke using Senator from Minn. He is just a laugh.
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I love it when the party hacks get their feathers ruffled, they immeadiately turn to name calling and personal attacks.
NeoLiberal Techno Facists using all weapons at their disposal rather than addressing the issues.
Besides I think he is German, at least the name looks German, just an opinion..
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Simon21 #261: Actually, only the four creatures who actually took over the controlls of the airplanes and flew them into their intended destonations received the flight school training in America. Not all nineteen hijackers as you suggest. Now of course we really dropped the ball when we decided not to even check up on them when suspicious behavior was noticed!! It was undoubtedly the most costly stupid mistake we have ever made as a nation outside the theater of war!!
jopeinapples #270: Agreed that carpet bombing the nation of Afghanistan was probably not the best way to go about the business of retalliation, and agreed emphaticly that if the west (and particularly the US, in my opinion,) had helped the Afghans rebuild after the Soviets had left, then 9/11 would have probably never even happened!!! There is an absolutely brilliant scene in the film '"Charley Wilson's War," in which Tom Hanks (as Charley Wilson) is in a cabanit meeting, and he is trying to convince them to sink a whole lot of money into Afghanistan to help insure that it doesn't turn into the kind of place that could potencially harbor terrorist groups such as the Tallaban etc. Upon not having much success, he says something along the lines of '"We charge into these countries with our wonderful ideals and good intentions, and we change the world. And then we leave. We always leave." And with that the scene cuts away to a new one, with writing on the screen explaining that despite his best attempts, Charley Wilson was not, in the end, able to secure the money needed for the reconstruction of Afghanistan. Its an absolutely wonderful movie, and I highly reccomend all of you watch it if you haven't already!
SaintDominick #280: Educated, non educated, rich, poor, happy, sad, or petrified. It doesn't matter to me what status the 9/11 attackers held, only that they did what they did. Since we couldn't obviously go after the ones responsible for the attacks due to the fact that they all died in them, we did the next best thing by going after their training camps in Afghanistan and Osama Benloddin (who, incidentally, was completely forgotten about when we decided to foolishly go into Iraq, giving him the chance to slip away again when we nearly had him in our grasp!!)
I must say this, though. We would have had a much better time of ridding the world of the anti-American sentament which fueled the attacks had we not been so God damned bullying in our tone over the past eight years, and that's the truth!! You can catch far more flys with honey than with vinager.
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"The Obama administration is set to revive a Bush-era program to use National Security Agency assistance in screening government computer traffic on private-sector networks." Fox news confirmed.
"North Korea fired seven ballistic missiles off its eastern coast Saturday, South Korea said, a violation of U.N. resolutions and an apparent message of defiance to the United States on its Independence Day." Fox News
"SEOUL, South Korea Punching their fists into the air and shouting "Let's crush them!" some 100,000 North Koreans packed Pyongyang's main square Thursday for an anti-U.S. rally as the communist regime promised a "fire shower of nuclear retaliation" for any American-led attack." Associated Press release.
"Taking no chances, Japan deployed warships and missile interceptors off its northern coast to shoot down any wayward parts the North said might litter the area as the rocket passes over the country.
North Korea has warned Japan any attempt to intercept the satellite would mean war and has threatened to shoot down American U-2 spy planes broaching its airspace.
Russia scrambled fighter jets to the Far East and put its troops there on alert, Sergei Roshcha, an aide to regional commander Lt. Gen. Valery Ivanov, told the Russian news agency Interfax.
The military is tracking the missile path and will not let any fragments fall on Russian territory, Vesti television said, citing a source in the Russian Armed Forces' General staff." extracts from Fox News
The whole world is watching this unfold....
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"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Instead of celebrating the Fourth of July holiday with barbecues and sparklers, about 2,000 small-government advocates, toting signs and chanting slogans, rallied outside the U.S. Capitol Saturday.
TEA Party activists hope their message reaches lawmakers on Capitol Hill.
Activists said the TEA Party Day -- an acronym for "Taxed Enough Already" -- was in response to what they called runaway government spending.
They are taking to task the Obama administration's stimulus program and health care initiative, and say Congress is not giving constituents enough information about where their tax money is spent.
People at the rally expressed outrage at the $787 billion economic stimulus plan passed earlier this year, saying the bill racked up a huge national debt that will be passed onto their grandchildren. They said President Obama's push for health-care overhaul is "socialism," and believe it would negatively affect the quality of care." source Cnn.
Best 4th of July celebration, the forefathers would have smiled for sure..
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"LONDON, England (CNN) -- The commander of a British regiment has become the country's highest-ranking soldier to be killed in action since 1982's Falklands War after he was killed by a roadside bomb in Afghanistan.
Lt. Col. Rupert Thorneloe was killed when a roadside bomb denotated in Helmand province.
1 of 2 Lt. Col. Rupert Thorneloe, 40, was killed along with trooper Joshua Hammond, 18, Wednesday as they were traveling along a canal in Lashkar Gah, in Afghanistan's southern Helmand Province, the British Ministry of Defense said." Source Cnn.
Apparently Obama's policies even affect the UK. Sorry for the loss of these fine men.I wonder how many it will take with this new police action policy.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"I must say this, though. We would have had a much better time of ridding the world of the anti-American sentament which fueled the attacks had we not been so God damned bullying in our tone over the past eight years, and that's the truth!! You can catch far more flys with honey than with vinager." Saint Dominick
Yeah an the other old saying is "If you lay down like a doormat, people will walk all over you." I wonder who said that?
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David_Cunard #278: '"Why has the death of a popular, yet bizarre entertainer attracted so much attention? Hardly an hour goes by without there being some "news" or "revelation" about the deceased and, for America, this outpouring is highly unusual. It is almost on a par with the deaths of popular presidents."
I'm sorry, "For America the outpouring of grief for their admired and adored public figures is highly unusual?" Are you sure you didn't mean to say Britain? Don't let the whole Jeffersonian 'scorning anything that has the remotest of links to dinastic rule and celebrity mantra fool you, Americans are just as obsessed with, are caught just as much off guard by sudden deaths, and strangely enough develop a type of admiration for celebrities and/or politicions that truely makes them feel as though said celebrity and/or politicion is a member of their own family as Britains, or anyone else is. Now I am certainly not one of them, and I too think that the wall to wall Michael Jackson news coverage has gotten way out of controll, with real news stories such as North Korea's nuclear ambitions being covered just barely compared to how excited Michael Jackson was for his come-back tour, but I think to brand this as unlike America is a bit overboard.
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NoRashDecisions just an escape from reality, to a younger time for some. Yes world affairs often take a backseat to pomp, and fantasy.
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AmericanGrizzly - Thirty-seven posts! Don't you have anything else to do?
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295. joepinapples (probably jacksforge/happylaze in his latest poor disguise) wrote:
Now people don't start accusing the mods too quick here. The referal process is spurred by a complaint. obviously someone complained about the comment.
That isn't necessarily always the case. A moderator who isn't sure whether a comment should be removed can also put it in referral mode.
I suspect having watched the cut and thrust of this site from afar, that the general process of posts that counter true too's postsdisappear.
That's a nonsensical conspiracy theory, of course. As usual, it is made out of an inability to respond to the points I made in no. 287. Simon21 does the same thing. It fools nobody, except those who want to be fooled. If you guys have no rebuttal to a comment, why bother to post anything?
I don't complain about comments since I believe in freedom of speech, even yours. The ability people have to temporarily remove comments they don't like is a major flaw in these BBC blogs. People should be able to complain but the comment should remain on the thread until the moderators decide whether to remove it or not.
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303. At 01:42am on 05 Jul 2009, Reiner_Torheit wrote:
'Obama will be arriving here in Moscow tomorrow. Before even arriving, he has accused Russia of being "stuck in its Soviet past" - this from a man who is deeply stuck in the neocon wars of his predecessor. Russians, frankly, are distrustful.'
Reiner,
I strongly recommend that you try to see, hear or read President Obama's public statements during this trip in their entirety. I have never seen or heard one that did not impress with it's fairmindedness, clarity of thought, and vision of cooperation, openness, and mutual respect. I rarely see this message correctly or clearly portrayed when edited by the media.
He is not just another American politician. He thinks more deeply and acts with more perception and patience than we have seen in generations. This is a good thing for all.
KScurmudgeon
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David_Cunard #278: '"Why has the death of a popular, yet bizarre entertainer attracted so much attention? Hardly an hour goes by without there being some "news" or "revelation" about the deceased and, for America, this outpouring is highly unusual. It is almost on a par with the deaths of popular presidents."
At times like these I have to restrict my access to the popular media.
KScurmudgeon
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325. KScurmudgeon wrote:
I rarely see this message correctly or clearly portrayed when edited by the media.
Much of the media treats Obama with the kind of adoration displayed by teenage girls at a rock concert. So yes, they distort his message, but they do it by sugar-coating it.
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318. At 05:01am on 05 Jul 2009, AmericanGrizzly wrote:
Apparently Obama's policies even affect the UK.
If you paid more attention to reality and recent history instead of showing your own political prejudices, you would have grasped that Bush's policies also "affected" the UK. And other NATO countries.
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283
I see the hi-jackers have returned again.
That post is an object lesson in how history (if you look at it with one eye shut) can be manipulated. That perspective has been challenged, and refuted, often enough in numerous threads.
"What I say three times (300? 3,000?) is true," is it?
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Random Thought For The Day:
Everything comes to an end and I would like to see part of Obama's legacy as helping the poor in Africa, in a similar sentiment to what Bush said would have been a noble cause, but I guess he's got other issues to deal with first..
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329. squirrelist wrote:
283
That post is an object lesson in how history (if you look at it with one eye shut) can be manipulated. That perspective has been challenged, and refuted, often enough in numerous threads.
No, it hasn't. And your comment represents the latest failure to refute it.
I see the hi-jackers have returned again.
I wasn't the one to bring up Israel-Palestine on this thread, if you think about it.
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Ref 320, AmericanGrizzly
"I must say this, though. We would have had a much better time of ridding the world of the anti-American sentament which fueled the attacks had we not been so God damned bullying in our tone over the past eight years, and that's the truth!! You can catch far more flys with honey than with vinager." Saint Dominick
Yeah an the other old saying is "If you lay down like a doormat, people will walk all over you." I wonder who said that?"
The statement you responded to was made by someone else. Yes, being a patsy makes you vulnerable, but being a bully makes you a target and sooner or later you have to pay the consequences for your actions. I believe that's the point NRD was making.
The biggest problem I have with Iraq, in addition to the immorality of our decision, is the fact that that diversion allowed the organization and elements that planned, financed, and executed 9/11 to reorganize and become more dangerous than ever. Had we remained focused on Al Qaeda, and addressed the root causes of the anti-American sentiment that exist in much of the world, we - and the rest of the world - would have been in much better shape than we are today.
The irony of some of the criticisms directed at President Obama is that unlike his predecessor, he seems determined to destroy Al Qaeda and mend fences to promote good will instead of imposing dictums such as you are either with us or against us.
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Ref 318, AmericanGrizzly
"Apparently Obama's policies even affect the UK. Sorry for the loss of these fine men.I wonder how many it will take with this new police action policy."
Thanks for crediting President Obama for the decision to invade Afghanistan. Does that mean he is a hawk or a pseudo neocon? It is true, however, that President Obama is trying to finish what his predecessor failed to do, and in so doing he must accept responsibility for his actions. Would you have been happier if he had decided to withdraw and let Al Qaeda take over the Persian Gulf and the entire Middle East? Is that what you are proposing, or are you simply grabbing straws to criticize a man you dislike?
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Ref 311, AmericanGrizzly
"Powell was provided intelligence, that all concerned, even Congress and the Senate, along with the President. All believed it presented a clear and present danger."
Not quite right. Al Baradei, the UN AIEA inspectors, Germany, France and other allies assured us, repeatedly, that all WMDs had been destroyed and that Iraq did not pose a threat to the US or Europe. The CIA tried to remove references to a nuclear threat from a State of the Union address because there was no evidence to support that assertion, which they believed was inaccurate, only to see Cheney put it back in again. US officials and journalists who questioned the accuracy of our claims were dismissed as unpatriotic or the sensitive positions of their spouses were revealed; and when everything else failed our retort was who are you going to believe, Saddam or the US government?
The neocons borrowed a page from Goebbels, and got away with it. Powell was not a naive bystander, as any soldier would do he obeyed the orders given by the Commander in Chief...and later resigned.
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ref#334
I don't agree Al Baradei and IAEA and U.N inspectors did not do their jobs being more concerned with diplomacy and inspections.
Of course the Nobel Peace prize was given to him even though his efforts have done nothing to promote peace.
Every major intelligence agency believed Saddam had WMB which due to Al Baradei incomptence could have ( note I say could not did) been moved.
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Ref 267, AmericanGrizzly
"For the first time in 35 years, older Americans will receive no cost-of-living increases(COLA)in their Social Security checks in 2010, according to the Congressional Budget office estimates. Thats bad news enough for many retirees living on fixed incomes."
You are right, I am one of those retirees; but I don't mind telling you that I rather get the $250 stimulus check that the Obama Administration ordered as part of the stimulus package for all retirees, than the miserly COLA increases we got in the past.
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ref #297
Don't you find it ironic that at least initially Obama was willing to talk with nations who hate us and pose a real threat:
Iran, North Korea, Venezuela etc.
But when Hondures or Israel does something he objects to more pressure and harsher statement are made.
Since the OAS representative refused to ralk to the current Hondurian President(reconized by their goverment) maybe Barack should send Clinton to listen instead of dictate to.
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331. At 11:09am on 05 Jul 2009, TrueToo wrote:
"No, it hasn't."
Oh yes, it has.
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Ref 301, AmericanGrizzly
"Wasn't Zelaya's term of office up? This is what I was to understand..."
No, he had one year left to complete his presidential term in office. BTW, the Honduran Constitution has been ammended more than a dozen times since 1982. The use of a referendum and/or plebiscite is one of the accepted methods to ammend the Constitution of that country, which I read before making my posts on that subject.
Military coups and the rise of a member of a powerful family to power has been part of the history of Latin American since the days of the conquest and colonization of the Americas. It has become a rarety in recent decades, which is why the uprising in Honduras was criticized by the OAS, the US and anyone with an ounce of responsibility and respect for democratic principles.
Seeing military jets flying over cities, and tanks and armed soldiers patrolling the streets to suppress the civilian population and impose their will is not something that amembers of democratic societies should applaud or encourage. Manuel Zelaya may not have been a great president, and some of his policies and intentions may have been suspect, but he was democratically elected and should have been allowed to complete his term. Instead, we have another 18th century style Junta ruling a Central American country. What's next? Are we going to start chanting Viva la Revolucion and encouraging the rise of more tin pot dictators? After all, they served us well in the past...at least short term because in the long term that approach - and abject misery - influenced the turn to the left that is evident throughout Latin America.
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David_Cunard and Joepinapples,
I do not understand why you are allowed to continue posting here.
You are both subversive elements causing not only our moderators to be worked overtime, but many others are forced to clutch their lucky pennies, rabbit foots, ayin harahs [Evil eye Kabbalah Jewelry,] to try and ward off the message in your postings. Please stop frightening them!
Are your posts being referred by those who are afraid of the truth in your comment, or is it a case of them being just withdrawn. Or when temporarily withheld and later reinstated, the thrust you tried to include has been fortunately watered down due to follow-up posts of others?
Only those in the know fully understand the decisions and our sad moderators, or mosadderators dependent upon your views here, have their hands full..
Please do not make any more postings that include the word Holocaust. It acts as a red rag for a load of bull on the site.
There are enough antisemitics and antiSemitics here who do not understand the original meaning of the word. Similarily many of these same people are in fact really holocaust or Holocaust deniers depending upon their personal views. The one group disputes the total of 6 million souls, and the other believes the 11 million other souls that suffered a similar fate are unworthy of being included in any total of victims of the horrific second world war and the few years leading up to it. I am at a loss to understand how the lives of millions of allies as well, both soldier and civilian who died fighting the aggressors for the rights of all, defending freedom for our world, are almost being regarded as cannon fodder by blinkered eyes. This thinking about the value of life, seems to be mirrored as well in present day suffering of the military and civilians around the world.
Theoretically this is an Independence day weekend celebrating America.
I understood your attempt DC, to include Michael Jackson into the debate that was petering out with a UK / USA comparison of Diana and MJ hysteria. But, I believe you are flying the wrong kite on the winds in this thread.
I would be grateful if you could include a few nice words about Ms Palin and the defeated Republican party. They have suffered a lot of late. Look upon it as showing themselves to be human and making that first small step to rejoin the fold of normal USA politics.
Your undivided support for Obama and the Democrats also does not go un-noticed.
Any idiot should have got America sorted out by now after nearly six months. What has gone wrong with the guy confronted with a few simple problems? It is undoubtably his eating of organic crops now grown in the White House lawns that are affecting his judgement. Either that or with the present swine flu pandemic he has himself picked up distemper from the new puppy. I must guess he is probably up and running, busy with other things. Hope he recovers soon, though your dollars and pounds are looking beter each day for we euro lovers. But, we are all one family on these pages, and individual success ignoring the whole picture is wrong.
Should it be necessary to discuss any ongoing foreign countries and their problems and politics I would like to hope you will both show the wisdom of 21st century Solomons, this time dividing the baby into as many parts as the electorate who want to claim a portion. It is too late for contraceptive measures and termination is out of the question. Parents these days and their children want it all unfortunately.
Without wishing to lay another hot Chestnut in your laps, wasn't it good that the Coney Island man beat the world record for eating hotdogs yesterday at the Independence Day competition. An American with now the hotdog, macaroni, cheese and jalopeno pepper records to his name. A future nominee for an American path-finder president and leader on the international front if ever I saw one. He eats normal food too. Hope he's an Independent.
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Ref 340, Waterman
"Any idiot should have got America sorted out by now after nearly six months. What has gone wrong with the guy confronted with a few simple problems?"
I agree with your statement regarding the Republican party. I don't think it is dead and, in fact, I would not be surprised if they gain seats in 2010. I also agree that Sarah Palin has been unfairly attacked and that she is likely to be a lot more successful than people think; if not in 2012 certainly by 2016.
Where we part ways is on the statement regarding the few "simple problems" that President Obama inherited and should have been able to solve in six months. Our national debt is approaching $13T, the amount of unfunded liabilities exceeds $50T, the amount of foreclosures and bankruptcies have been at record highs for two years, and our average credit card debt is $25K. The real estate bubble burst not only because of flawed mortgages, but because of speculation and over-building. Consistent with the laws of supply and demand the glut in available housing will keep prices down for years to come. Many corporations are meeting their obligations from month to month and depend on credit to remain afloat. Deregulation allowed ENRON, AIG, Banks, financial institutions and Wall Street traders to get away with murder...and our money.
Regardless of whether the Democrats went along with Reagan's and Bush's policies because of their popularity, the fact remains that they rolled over and supported their policies. As a result they share responsibility for the mess we are in. Most importantly, unless we - the people - suffered from a case severe mental deficiency and did not recognize the incongruity of demanding lower taxes and better services we have nobody to blame for the problems we are having but ourselves. The Man on the Mirror seems like an appropiate and timely metaphor...
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Ref 337, Magic
"Don't you find it ironic that at least initially Obama was willing to talk with nations who hate us and pose a real threat:
Iran, North Korea, Venezuela etc."
I can not speak for North Korea, the only thing I remember about that country is the bloody war we waged there over fice decades ago and the fact that its totalitarian regime has kept the people isolated and brain washed; but I can speak for Venezuelans and, judging by the recent protests in Tehran, I think it is fair to say that those "nations" do not hate Americans.
Don't confuse the hatred and irrational suspicions of the "leaders" you cited with how nations (people) feel about us. The overwhelming majority of Venezuelans loved American cars, movies, clothes (Europeans may not believe that part), and envied our lifestyle and freedoms. For decades they depended on imports from the USA and were one of our most important and reliable trading partners. As opposed to others, they paid in cold cash. Our policies, support for dictatorships, and the exploitation of their natural resources while paying a pittance in royalties drove them towards nationalization and other trading partners.
To his credit, President Bush simply ignored Chavez who, I suspect, he considered nothing more than an annoyance. Bush, however, participated in the six-party talks with North Korea and was much more determined than Obama in improving relations with the Kim Jong Il regime than Obama who has been keeping a hands off approach on that problem. I think he should be more engaged in solving what is, ostensibly, one of the greatest threats to our national interests and security.
Dialogue is not a bad approach to solve problems, but it falls on deaf ears where our interlocutors are fanatics determined to achieve their personal goals at the expense of their own people.
Again, I can't say I like Chavez and approve of all his policies, but I think it is a gross exaggeration to put him in the same context as Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong Il. If nothing else because Hugo lacks the offensive military capabilities that the other two have and threaten to use. The only threat from Chavez is that his popularity in Latin America continues to grow as he squanders his national treasure to gain allies in his megalomaniac pursuit of a Bolivarian revolution and his place in history.
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340. watermanaquarius
Perhaps he's got irony deficiency and needs a tonic? There's a lot of it about. Me, I'm a hypocaust denier, and I don't care who knows it. What need is there, I ask you, for getting into hot water or plying people with soft soap?
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saintDominick # 341,
Perhaps I am one of the lucky ones, a disenfranchised voter who can take pot-shots at, and very very occasionally give compliments to any party.
Personally I think your assesment about the Republican party is incorrect. Yes a few seats, positions will change hands because that is the norm in any country where a vote against sitting government does occurr, pointing them to pulling their socks up, but with the present day outlook of suitable candidates it will not be anytime soon.
I will give you Ms Palin [a couple of weeks to go in her present position, I am thinking towards the future] might have been unfairly attacked but then with a limited understanding of much of America and the world, she asked for it. A Dark horse though if I may be allowed the expression. Politics or media, all exposure for her future career is welcome.
Simple problems- you list figures affecting America deficits like the numbers of stars in the sky, yet any country with it's own glimpse of GDP heaven and the problems it faces are in exactly the same position though on a much smaller scale, but percentage-wise probably the equivalent of the US. Real estate here to is taking a hammering and for southern Europe the building industry is a major player in their economy.
Rolling over and supporting old ideas is unfortunate where others already hold the game in their hands and are afraid to relinquish it in case their individual status is diminished. You, and Obama do have a problem there.
We, the people .....[ excellent turn of phrase] must accept some part of the responsibility for the problem though it would appear to be more[as you so rightly infer] of senior executives betraying the positions of trust they aspired to, that has collapsed the house of cards.
We all live in hope that we will soon see a glimmer of light at the end of our respective burrows. Despite the gloom it really is a wonderful world outside our doors. Step by step, brick by brick...my faith lies that Mr Average American will reach his true potential..
Don't forget to remember that the man in the American mirror was also the first to put a man on the moon.
Enjoy a good weekend.
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#342
You are correct about the leaders not the people
But it seems that Obama is more interested in putting pressure on Hondures than real problem leaders that I mentioned.
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#324. TrueToo: "295. joepinapples (probably jacksforge/happylaze in his latest poor disguise) . . ."
Far too well constructed and spelt to be either of those two screen personalities. Of course it could be the same person and, if so, it indicates just how bright he or she is. Very difficult to be two quite different people in print.
#340. watermanaquarius: "David_Cunard and Joepinapples, I do not understand why you are allowed to continue posting here."
Your British humour may get you into trouble since the casual reader might actually believe your tongue-in-cheek post. With regard to Michael Jackson though, there has been unprecedented media coverage and vast numbers of fans are trecking to LA and Neverland; apparently over 500,000 have applied for the 17,500 tickets for his memorial on Tuesday. That must say something about the state of America, a greater interest in a popular entertainer than the real news of the day.
#321. NoRashDecisions: "to brand this as unlike America is a bit overboard."
Then name one other occasion in which both the media and much of the general public has reacted so. If you can. It's a distraction from the constant coverage (and frequent adverse criticism) of Mr Obama, not to mention the parlous state of the financial world and American economy. The Thirties had Busby Berkeley, we have Michael Jackson.
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And in the midst of all the friendly debate about Israel, Honduras, Venezuela, Iran, North Korea and the swine flu remains the original question: where is Obama at a time when it is becoming increasingly evident that the economy remains on life support and that the stimulus package and deficit spending are not enough to revive it?
Are investments in infrastructure, energy independence, education, and healthcare reform going to help us overcome the problems we are having, or are they going to aggravate our precarious fiscal situation?
The fact that Russia is going to allow us to transport arms via their territory is an interesting development, but I am afraid there are more pressing issues right here at home that need attention before everything else becomes irrelevant.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ref 344, Waterman
"Don't forget to remember that the man in the American mirror was also the first to put a man on the moon."
This NASA veteran appreciates the reminder.
The economic collapse is, indeed, global but I don't know of any country that has accumulated the level of debt that we have. Wars, stimulus packages, and deficit spending often help revive economies, but without consumer confidence and money to spend a long term recovery is tenuous at best. I am afraid the next step is going to be to print massive amounts of money, which will trigger inflation and cause further devaluations of the dollar, and are likely to limit the amount of foreign credit and investment.
Regardless of who contributed the most to the current malaise, the fact is that President Obama was - or should have been - fully aware of the mess he was getting into and accepted the challenge. It is now up to him and the rest of us to find a solution to the problems that threaten our future much more than any of the foreign events we love to focus on.
The reason I believe the GOP will bounce back sooner rather than later is because (1) we remain a very conservative nation, and (2) because regardless of how unfair it may be, President Obama will be held responsible for not solving the problems that others created and for the massive spending if it does not produce immediate results. Patience is not one of our greatest virtues.
I wish you and your family a wonderful weekend. I spent mine eating barbecued baby back ribs, baked potatoes, corn, baked beans and an apple pie that is doing a number to my blood sugar levels!
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#342, SD
You must have some idea as to why most North Americans are totally ignorant of their "back door" neighbors in regards to Latin America. By North American standards, Latin America has always looked as a region to prey on and claim it's resources. North Americans (with the except of Canada which seem to mind it's own business when it come to other countries internal matters), the US has always flecked its' military muscle to bring down duly elected left wing governments in the region. No one, not even the most ignorant and arrogant North American can deny that. Well, they can, but than again denial is as "American" as apple pie, isn't it?
It's hard to believe, in spite of all the advancement Latin America has done to bring harmony, democracy, peace and prosperity, there is always one who will think otherwise. The fact that Honduras military, the few corporate capitalist rich (who most likely have all their loot stored up in European and North American banks), hidden right wing fascists 5th elements and the Catholic Church (which has no credibility left other than to keep the faithful subservient in line) planned the takeover for months only means that Honduras reverted back to being nothing more than a backwards banana republic.
Not too long ago in Latin America, it was the norm for the military to kidnap and even murder a duly elected democratic president in the wee hours of the morning. Democratic elections didn't mean much too them and it seem it still doesn't in Honduras. The weapons were provided by none other than the USA at the time.
The OAS did an outstanding job in condemning the Honduras military takeover and the BBC is doing a splendid of job bringing it to the attention of the world.
By the way, the name "Honduras" means a sink hole. Frankly speaking, I would refer it "from a sink hole to a stink hole."
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331. At 11:09am on 05 Jul 2009, TrueToo wrote:
No, it hasn't. And your comment represents the latest failure to refute it.
I see the hi-jackers have returned again.
I wasn't the one to bring up Israel-Palestine on this thread, if you think about it."
You are right. As usual the first front is Magikkirin then you follow to expand the subject.as can be seen in the posts.
If you could think about it.But I see that others have come a cropper for trying to tell you this before.
What a shame you do not seem to learn.
American grizzly "Apparently Obama's policies even affect the UK. Sorry for the loss of these fine men.I wonder how many it will take with this new police action policy."
Apparently you really don't care .it would seem that it is just a convenient death to your argument and there is no other reason to mention it. your paying respects o them would have more credibility if you did not use it to justify your argument.(well ar least in the same. soldiers die rank does not matter.
True too
you accuse me of being Jacksforge in an attempt to suggest I be banned. I read what happened there .He was banned for what seems to be a dubious reason when I read the posts that were involved that still remained and the few comments about it from other posters that followed closer.
Here you go again. trying to suggest someone is someone who would be banned if it were that someone.
While claiming that you are not trying to get anyone banned.I would say your argument falls apart at that stage.
As Usual.
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325. At 06:38am on 05 Jul 2009, KScurmudgeon wrote:
I strongly recommend that you try to see, hear or read President Obama's public statements during this trip in their entirety. I have never seen or heard one that did not impress with it's fairmindedness, clarity of thought, and vision of cooperation, openness, and mutual respect. I rarely see this message correctly or clearly portrayed when edited by the media.
He is not just another American politician. He thinks more deeply and acts with more perception and patience than we have seen in generations. This is a good thing for all.
KScurmudgeon"
KScrmudgeon.I always underestimate you and I am always so pleased to see you prove me to be underestimating you. Thankyou, once again. these words above are perfect.I am glad you say it because from me no one would listen.
Thank You
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#346. David_Cunard: ""apparently over 500,000 have applied for the 17,500 tickets for (Jackson's) memorial on Tuesday."
Strike that. According The Los Angeles Times, so far 1.6 million have applied! And counting. Who cares about the economy or what the President is or is not doing when that show is running? Not everyone has the same priority!
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329
Squirrelist the poster says
"Yes, the Holocaust obviously spurred the emigration of Jews to Palestine but so did the oppression the Jews suffered in Arab countries."
I'm having problems belieing that the persecution faced in europe was considered insignificant to all those that moved from other areas of the world like europe and Russia. they were all thinking of hte people of their faith already suffering in palestine. so they went to help. not to take some land for themselves.
but then this will probably be modded and the post inciting it will remain.
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340 watermanaquarious. I only had one post removed (so far I await others) it contained a reply to the off topic discussion that True too is promoting and I am falling into the trap of answering(until I don't read the allowed off topic comments at which stage I will stop responding.)
Now he goes one further and accuses me of being some poster that was banned.
David Cunard,thank you for your kind words I thought it a preposterous accusation that was made by True too when he suggested I was here previously as other posters.
An assumption based on the premiss that all posters that disagree with him are to be silenced and the best way to do that is to accuse anyone who seems a kindred spirit in the posters that were banned as being worthy of banning as well.A total distraction from the blog.
Though I really was not going to waste my time reading the grizzly attempt at war and peace I did read a few and though not really on topic they were more on topic than accusations against me by someone that turned up just prior to the first removal of a comment by me that even I could not understand why it was being removed.
That I would defend myself against these accusations is surely to be expected.
It proves nothing of course but I do have the right I would think to say."excuse me do you have any proof " He could like me just answer with " I don't care to prove anything to you why should I?" I do not debate with my neighbors dogs either ,even though they wag and sit and seem to understand some of what I say.
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David cunard I suspect the times we live in magnify all reaction. There is a feeding frenzy of grief that is fed back into the system leading to melt down.;)I suspect if Elvis had died in this day and age there would have been a similar reception but fortunately for his soul there was a little decency left in those days.(OK not decency but lack of media in your face-ness) the Death of Diana was the first great world mourning.
celebrititis. A common complaint these days.
Waterman Aquarius
You endanger us with your objections to us, I am glad that they are said in jest.
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saintDominick # 347,
Do like your posts. Sensible, thoughtful head secure on strong shoulders looking out for possible problems.
The trouble with any patient on life support is not to attempt further surgery or treatment too soon after the first, for fear of pushing him into cardiac arrest.
The SS America has it's capable captain, who has charted the course to avoid the extreme waves and icebergs in the way. So far so good. The crew whether they are hoisting the sails, rowing or those bailing out are doing their bit to the best of their ability to keep the ship afloat and on an even keel.
Please do remember that it is only the remaining termites still holding hands that are keeping the ship together. The time for a total strip down and re-tarring takes place when the ship has entered calmer waters, hopefully in the near future.
A favourable forecast from the Russians should never be dismissed as nothing .
Teamwork together would indicate that another old fable about a common enemy, always out to start a battle, is slowly sinking to the bottom.
Deciding to later courtmarshal and hang the captain at the masthead should be considered carefully before taking those drastic steps. My thoughts are that you leave the tar and feathering for others, preferably retired admirals. Do you really want a Republican cabin boy in charge?.
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when I talk first great mourning of course I show my age becasue there empire has a few big ceremonies as far as I can remember from the news reels.
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joepinapples # 355, 356.
Never to sure in this liberated day and age if that is Joe or Ms Josephine.
My apologies if my comments have upset you. There was no intention of promoting a block on your participation.
Running here on the one functioning brain cell that is working you will have to expect tangential comment that has both tongue in cheek content or can attack the jugular in every line.
I wish I knew myself what will emerge from the two typing fingers, or when the cell should decide to stop functioning in mid sent.....
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I show my age because THE empire (and by that I meant the British Empire) has had a few...
Sorry. Clumsy of me.I should remember to not try to post on the ethernet when conversing with someone in the "real "world.
Watermanaquaruious. I like the nautical references.
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359 Watermanaquarious. Sorry to sound so stern. I did realise you were jesting.I realise that your tongue was in cheek and no offense was taken. I wonder how long these posts will remain before they start being referred to the moderators . I see that the postings normally disappeared in the past at a time when the "defendant" had seemed to stop paying attention.
Seeing as this time I am the person in the chair of the accused I wonder if the same will happen this time.
So I'll be off , to allow them time to formulate their arguments and write their complaints. It would take some coordination so I suspect that is why the afore mentioned pattern has been so prevalent.
(those time of posting numbers are so informative)
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I hate to break up the debate. But please email you senator to vote no on Cap and trade. no to Higher energy costs.
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SD'
"I am afraid the next step is going to be to print massive amounts of money, which will trigger inflation and cause further devaluations of the dollar,..."
Insofar as my own personal finances are concerned....I'm depending on it being inevitable. I've placed a heavy bet on it as being the only way out of the depression. Once America takes the lead, Europe will dance in step...or pay the consequences. It will be murder for lenders meaning banks, bond holders, China....and great for borrowers.
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#363. MarcusAureliusII: "Once America takes the lead, Europe will dance in step."
Why would you care what Europe does? You never have a good word for it.
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Ref 357, Waterman
"Do you really want a Republican cabin boy in charge?"
No.
I confess that I have voted for Republican senators and congressmen (congresswoman would be more accurate), not because of ideological reasons but because I thought they were the most qualified for the job, and I am inclined to do the same in the future should a Republican prove to be more qualified than the Democratic candidate. IMO, political parties are a necessary evil, but I am not among those who vote along party lines. Neither party has ever put food on my table.
However, when it comes to Presidential elections I tend to vote Democratic, although I really had to swallow hard when I voted for Kerry.
I believe government has a role to play not only in ensuring our physical security, but our economic, fiscal, and social security as well. While it would be ideal to have private enterprise running the space program, building new public transportation systems, providing healthcare to all Americans, taking steps to make our country energy independent, and ensuring our children receive the level of education needed to compete in what looks like a very challenging future; the truth is that they have not shown an inclination to undertake such efforts without the guarantee of a good return on their investment.
Many of the undertakings we need to remain competitive and sustain our standard of living require government support to, at least, get them started, and then let private enterprise take over and let competition produce quality improvements and affordable cost. I believe that regulation and oversight are an absolute necessity to prevent a repeat of ENRON, AIG, Bernie Madoff, and very suspect sole source contracts that have seldom produced anything substantial.
I still have confidence in President Obama's vision, but I am convinced that the magnitude and scope of the problems we are facing are so great that solving our problems will require a concerted effort and sacrifices from all of us that I doubt the "me" generation will commit to or wants to hear. Our debt is unsustainable, our creditors are running scared, our expectations are unrealistic, and most people remain ambivalent to our problems and continue to pursue goals that most of us would not have even dreamed of at their age.
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"362. At 7:13pm on 05 Jul 2009, toughdirtyjoe wrote:
I hate to break up the debate. But please email you senator to vote no on Cap and trade. no to Higher energy costs."
No but I would write to them to say yes.You see some of us have been hoping for the cap and trade at least. Maybe more like a genuine attempt.
I will write to my MP to say If America doesn't get on board to penalize them as much as possible though.
It has done no good so far and I doubt it would do much good in the future but I can dream.
Marcus Aurelius
"Once America takes the lead, Europe will dance in step."
When America takes the lead.HAHA. Maybe it will finally try doing that because so far they have been lagging behind on all aspects of modern life.
They just like to think they are leaders,which is easy to do if you ignore the rest of the world.
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363Marcus.
Yes, Mugabe would concur with that.
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363, MAII, way off the mark. What will happen if the Chinese don't get
on board is that they will stop buying our bonds, and, if that happens,
it's hello 2nd Great Depression.
The only way out of this is to set up a new relationship between China and
the West whereby they actually buy stuff that we produce, instead of just
siphoning off our technology and companies.
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367. At 9:47pm on 05 Jul 2009, alphamiguel wrote:363Marcus.Yes, Mugabe would concur with that.
I take it the 'bet' he's made is on the shares of wheelbarrow manufacturers.
But then, he sees the difference between 6,000 and 60,000 as irrelevant and not worth bothering about, so what's it matter if you pay for a wheelbarrow with a 100 dollar bill or a 100,000,000 dollar bill?