Looking back on Obama's tour of Europe
So what of the Europe and Turkey visit?
Traditionally American presidents turn their attentions to the outside world when everything at home goes to hell. For Mr Obama you could argue that things at home were already pretty dire so the normal rules were easy to break.
But he has taken to world diplomacy as if he were made for it. Which in a way, he was.
He is tall with long arms: this allows LBJ-style use of stature to impose power and will.
And he has a fine mind: diplomats value this. In a meeting in Prague, a diplomat told a colleague that the entire room was wowed by him - he had such a grasp of subjects. But just as importantly, he has an easy and self-effacing style that caused the Euro crowd to swoon.
But has he achieved anything? The David Axelrod line - that it is all about tomorrow or the day after - could be interpreted as a terrible cop-out.
But this project is huge. So the fact that North Korea is still the subject of international disagreement or that Turkey has not acceded to the EU or that Afghanistan has not been pacified by Belgian gendarmes with feathers in their caps should not surprise us.
The long-term does matter. In a year, if the Euro crowd want out of Afghanistan then this trip failed. In 10 years, if North Korea has built a spaceship and colonised the moon then this trip failed. In a century, if Turkey is an Islamic Republic with a national day to celebrate Osama Bin Laden's birthday, then this visit will have failed.
But if, in a year, or 10 or 100, we see a more united effort in Afghanistan, a more concerted effort against the North Koreans, and a Turkey even more modern and diplomatically mature, then he can claim to have done well.
If he is still around...
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Justin,
I wonder why you chose to rank the North Korean colonisation of the Moon together with Turkey celebrating OBL's birthday? Contrary to what might be told in the US, the Moon does not have USA stamped on it. If the North koreans can colonise it, I say good luck to them.
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"But if, in a year, or 10 or 100, we see a more united effort in Afghanistan, a more concerted effort against the North Koreans, and a Turkey even more modern and diplomatically mature, then he can claim to have done well. "
Fingers (and everything else) crossed! And who is to say more can't be achieved?!
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If all we get out of this presidency is more of the same on failed "nation-building", alleged "rogue states" (pots & kettles come to mind) or EU/Nato expansion, it'll truly have been a waste of time. Time to take out the policy trash.
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#3 Davep01
Wow, you are really quite negative. I sympathize though after 8 years of Bush. And I would hardly say he has "failed", he has only been at it 100 days and he has already made more of an effort than his predecessor! Have a bit of hope
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Justin surely the the point of the tensions with NK is that they could use these ballistic missiles as vehicles for nuclear warheads not NK cosmonauts? And that with the tests they have "launced" a satelite with they can now reach Japan and the parts of Alaska!!
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Heh. If North Korea has colonised the Moon in ten years I think we'll go to Pyongyang and ask for some of what they're drinking. Even President Huckabee would.
Meanwhile, I can just see civil servants in the Foreign Ministries arguing...
"We can't just so that! It's against our national interest!"
"But... tall! Long arms! Self-effacing style!"
"Good point, let's do it."
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4. At 4:37pm on 07 Apr 2009, SaintOne wrote:
"... he has only been at it 100 days and he has already made more of an effort than his predecessor!"
Oh, I agree wholeheartedly, and I've still hope: indeed my seeming negativity's the consequence of thinking he can do a whole lot better - otherwise I's be saying how good this start was. It's early days and I've been optimistic so far, but I think it's just now becoming time the tweaks started looking more like overhauls.
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Justin,
He is tall with long arms: this allows LBJ-style use of stature to impose power and will.
And he has a fine mind: diplomats value this. In a meeting in Prague, a diplomat told a colleague that the entire room was wowed by him - he had such a grasp of subjects. But just as importantly, he has an easy and self-effacing style that caused the Euro crowd to swoon."
An excellent post! I second aint One's crossed fingers.
Peace to all
Hesiodos
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Been to Istanbul lately, Boy Webb? Turkey 'even more modern and diplomatically mature'? Only the moderators prevent me placing something deeply vulgar after the word 'patronising' here. By nearly all valid standards, the Turks are way past half the EU countries and off into the distance - and not just the 'new' states, either. And why is everyone harping on about Turkey as an 'Islamic country'? It's a secular country with Islamic representation - that's part of its strength. Thankfully, it has a military devoted to keeping it that way, so if anyone needs to make contact with the swivel-eyed medieval Islamofascist enemy they'd better dial another number; maybe try Saudi???
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There is alot of truth to the importance of this trip, but the consequences one visit by a foreign leader is surely not enough to be the sole deciding factor of such long term and complex issues. There is a difference between setting an agenda, and carrying out all of the leg-work involved with making things happen.
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Rhody (10),
- "There is a difference between setting an agenda, and carrying out all of the leg-work involved with making things happen."
Aye, but the agenda comes first, and a good chairman knows how to delegate the leg-work...Complain about this comment
This first trip to Europe was about mending the numerous broken fences created by the Bush Administration over 8 years. In this sense, President Obama was hugely successful. No US President (not Kennedy, Reagan or Clinton) has been greeted and accepted so warmly as President Obama has this past week. This will lay the ground work for future discussions. The attitude of openness and understanding that was shown by President Obama is what Europe and the world have been waiting for in US leadership and was so dictinctly lacking from the Bush Administration.
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The trip has been well recieved so that much at least has been a success. As has been emphasised only time will tell if the trip bears fruit.
So far in diplomacy Obama is doing very well !!
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Justin, I worked at NASA since shortly after that agency was created, and participated in manned and unmanned projects since the early Vanguard and Mercury days. I appreciated your reference to NK colonizing the Moon, not because I think such event is likely considering their economic and technological limitations, but because of its inferences.
Our options with NK are limited to diplomacy, using China as a mediator, ignoring an hoping the problem goes away, economic and financial concessions, and war. Hopefully the latter is not part of the equation because our last encounter was not exactly the kind of experience we should try to repeat.
President Obama is doing an outstanding job both at home and abroad. After 8 years of fear mongering, deceit, and adventurism it is remarkable to see our young leader promoting our best values and peaceful intentions to the world. He deserves the full support and respect of the American people and every peace loving person in the world for his statesmanship and his efforts to reach out to allies and foes in what is, clearly, one of the most significant changes in US foreign policy in decades.
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"If he is still around..."
I think your last line should have been "Bwuah-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaa!"
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Despite a breezy, entertaining style, Mr Webb's columns are always brief, superficial and banal, little more than compilations of other columnists' opinions, dumbed down. BBC enjoys great respect in the USA, but this type of 'Pop' journalism does the Beeb little credit.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"he had such a grasp of subjects"
"he has an easy and self-effacing style"
I remember W and I am thinking:
What a relieving, wonderful change
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To prove a line segment drawn on a paper a bigger one or shorter one, there should always be another line dran on the side of it. In the same manner to prove the credibility of other nice countries, North Korea type should be there. All the pricks now piercing USA are the mere creation of its old deeds. Let 100's of Obamas take birth in every county. Even then only time can solve any problems. Real honesty can solve any trouble, but it may take time. It is better to take lessons in Gandhiasm for Obama before going for world diplomacy.
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So much for objectivity.
Tell me Justin, do you fancy that if you stoop low enough, you'll catch Obama's attention, and he'll reciprocate your love or something? You have a very crowded playing field to get though in that case. Yes sir, not the first journalist to fawn over The One. Certainly not the last.
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Can this world diplomacy bring back the looted money (hosted in secrete accounts of banks of some rough counties) of poor people of many countries?
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Now the world scenario is changed. At this point of world recession definitely USA can't wage wars against any other co-county of this Globe. Is this Diplomacy a trial to drag other counties to the wage the wars (the needs of USA) under the leadership of USA and under the hood of UNO ?
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Ironic that I'm perfectly okay with NK colonizing the Moon and Turkey becoming an Islamic Republic as long as they do it peacefully more power to them. As far as the rest, I agree, I think if there is at least a little more of 'we're all on the same side' and less 'how does the USA want to trample all over everyone with their fumbling Foreign policy this time?' this conference is a big winner. We're only going to move forward as a group after all. There are far too many individual national agendas for any chance of a random coincidence of national aims to solve some of the more thorny problems facing us all today. Benjamin Franklin said it best 'We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately...'. Between a better grasp of how a global economy is run, to reducing the tensions in several parts of the world, protecting our populaces from terrorists, and for goodness sake stopping piracy of all things! We must improve our international cooperation or we are at extreme risk of damaging our planet beyond our ability to thrive as a species this includes everything from military policies and hardware to environmental controls, and most importantly to how we produce, deliver, and pay for our energy needs.
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So Obama accomplishes nothing on this farce of a trip except to grovel in front of the entire world - and the news media wants to call it a success?
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Why does Justin have to be so cynical. Its a wonder anything ever happens in the world with people taking such an attitude. Cant we take things with good faith, at least occasionally?
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"He has only been at it for 100 days?" Uh... as of today, I'm pretty sure 77 or 78 is more accurate.
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"In a year, if the Euro crowd want out of Afghanistan then this trip failed. In 10 years, if North Korea has built a spaceship and colonised the moon then this trip failed. In a century, if Turkey is an Islamic Republic with a national day to celebrate Osama Bin Laden's birthday, then this visit will have failed."
I think the author of this article forgot to add things such 'when the figs fly' or 'when the hell freezes'.
I think Mr. Obama had a very successful trip even if this does not mean pulling rabits out of his hat. After 8 years of horrendous Bush administration, he had to go and iron out some issues. Now we will see if he can also walk the walk.
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The moon has a US flag on it though.(the first flag there though. it belongs us. not a planet orwell)
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i am an Obama supporter, and like many others i welcome the change. But do you not think he has lifted expectations on himself and America even further in this trip? I thought it couldn’t get higher, until he said he wanted rid of nuclear weapons. To change the world is not easy, and it will get harder for him in the long run, and i think he has to refrain from saying 'yes we can' in public, he has won the election. I fear, that once he leaves office, or even when he us up for re-election, the hopes of many millions of Americans, and many billions around the world will the squashed. There is so much one man can do. In my mind, all this trip has done is to lift expectations even further, achiving very little.
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"So what of the Europe and Turkey vsit?"
Well, as you implied Mr Webb it is probably far too early to judge.
However, as I interrupted my Computer Football Game to check your Blog and follow-up on President Obama's predictable hop-over to Iraq (see him in Kabul, later tonight), it might be useful to use a sort of Player-President Attributes:
Presentation - 18 out of 20
Versatility:
(Oral) - 17
(Aural) - 17
(Physical) - 19
Political:
(Strategy) - 17
(Tactics) - 15
(Philosophy) - 15
Speech Content:
(Short-term) - 14
(Long-term) - 10
Creativity - 16
Public Persona - 18
Average - 16 out of 20
Spouse Persona - 20
Presentation - 18 (minus 2 for not visiting Turkey; secular Muslim
women needed the First lady's visible, high profile
support)
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"In a century, if Turkey is an Islamic Republic with a national day to celebrate Osama Bin Laden's birthday, then this visit will have failed.
But if, in a year, or 10 or 100, we see a more united effort in Afghanistan, a more concerted effort against the North Koreans, and a Turkey even more modern and diplomatically mature, then he can claim to have done well."
Islamic Republic naturally means diplomatically immature and primitive? I urge Mr. Webb to check his Eurocentric and neo-colonialist views and learn to accept others different than himself.
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"In a meeting in Prague, a diplomat told a colleague that the entire room was wowed by him - he had such a grasp of subjects."
Hogwash.
Did no one tell Obama that Turkey still has a standing army looking straight at the troops of the USA's strongest Ally, the UK, on the paradise island of Cyprus?
Until Turkey pulls all of it's people out of Cyprus, no negotiations regarding Turkey joining the European Union should be entered into.
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". . . and if American capitalism develops a conscience, industry and banks are run by workers' co-operatives, the USA becomes a Welfare State, the world is nuclear-free and global warming is arrested . . .'
I wonder if I am getting a little over-excited?
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Such a shame that the British and Europeans fail to think about the fact that the United States has saved their sorry rearends for two world wars and lost thousands of young men just so they could have future generations complain about how mean and bad the US is.
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So, it is being tall with long arms that impresses people in Europe!
I wish we had known this sooner. If this is the case, we should have elected Michael Jordan as President and he could have appointed the starting lineup of the Los Angeles Lakers and the Boston Celtics to his cabinet.
Just think of what we could accomplish!
Nice also to understand the definition of failure. To paraphrase...If the worst, and completely impossible, events happen, then the trip failed. Other than that, it was a smashing success.
Thanks Justin. :)
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nice one, Isenhorn!
Mr. Webb,
You are brilliant journalist,
but it would be better if you can be more objective :)
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Obama had no right to back Turkish membership of the E.U. (however, I happen to agree with him on that), but who asked for his opinion in the first place? It is a matter for the member states of the E.U., and if it can presented by French and German opponents as the U.S. pressuring Europe into "taking in Turkey" ... then you can kiss any realistic prospect of it happening goodbye.
BTB - it is such a shame Americans are still so ungrateful to the Frenchmen who birthed their nation and freed them from British tyranny (Spaniards and the Dutch also deserve an honourable mention as well). Without French intervention there would be no such entity as "The United States".
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nmiehie and Comment 31.
"Islamic republic naturally means diplomatically immature and primitive."
Exactly so!
Sorry, but what exactly was your point?
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After 8 years of Dubya, it's refreshing and encouraging to hear a president finish sentences, use and pronounce polysyllabic words correctly, and talk to people he doesn't agree with. And unlike his predecessor, Obama got into law school. All that, plus he's the sexiest president since JFK (just ask the millions of chicks who voted for him), yet he didn't grow up rich.
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Justin,
I wonder do you look at this from a European standpoint or an American one? President Obama must recognize the enormity of disagreement between his predecessor and the Europeans, and simply because there has been a changing of the guard - doesn't mean that Europeans are going to just fall lockstep in behind whatever the Americans want. I have to wonder after this financial debacle if Europeans will be soooo willing to fall back to old patterns after 1, 10, 100 years have passed.
"In a century, if Turkey is an Islamic Republic with a national day to celebrate Osama Bin Laden's birthday, then this visit will have failed." Only people with colonial pasts would even consider saying something like that, shame on you. If Turkey is an Islamic Republic - it doesn't necessarily mean that they are jumping on the terrorist bandwagon parade. If the people of Turkey are actively working to produce those end results - then it really is their country, well isn't it?
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Another post (#37) complaining that Obama has "no right" to express an opinion to the European Union! The President (and the Secretary of State) didn't crash the party; they were invited, and Obama is not the first US President to go to the EU and be invited to speak. About what? Of course he's going to speak about policy, and of course he's going to represent the interests of the US in doing so. It is in the interest of the US to have good relations with Islamic nations even while going after Islamic terrorists, so it is not surprising that Obama would stick up for Turkey (a long-time US ally) on the eve of a visit there. What should he talk about? Does anyone suppose he went to Prague to get recipes for goulash?
I am not saying I support this policy. I am not taking sides either way in this forum.
As for whoever it was who objects to calling Turkey "Islamic," note that the CIA FactBook reports that Turkey is 99.8 per cent Islamic. I would call that "Islamic" even though the country is officially secular.
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Re: #34 -- please, please don't anyone respond and start fighting the world wars all over again. Just refer him/her to that other thread, whatever it is, where the wars are being fought.
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I agree with many. You had an off-day J.,
Just wanted to point out one more bizarre image from your posting: belgian gendarmes with feathers in their hat in Afghanistan????
Let me retribute with UK royal guard's, please go to:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6ttV4h5mbo&feature=related
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
#41, ask yourself how America would react if the next European foreign dignatory on an Americas tour stopped off in somewhere like Cuba, Venezuela or Colombia and said: "I support [enter country's name here] right to join NAFTA".
Now imagine NAFTA with a largely-unelected political umbrella leadership, talk of a shared common foreign policy and army and you will begin to understand what was said. Implications of Turkey joining will include economic union, political (sovereignty-pooling) as well as opening up labour markets to free movement.
It is fine for Obama be in favor of Turkey's entry, as someone ultimately wanting to see Turkey brought in ... he is damaging the chances of that happening, and his opinion is a complete irrelevance (at best).
He has a right to express a view to the European Union of matters of importance to the US, he does not have the right to pressure/decide who will and who will not be granted membership of the EU.
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15. At 6:17pm on 07 Apr 2009, Dean_FRW wrote:
"If he is still around..."
I think your last line should have been "Bwuah-ha-ha-ha-haaaaaa!"
are you saying it would be no loss?
What EXACTLY do you mean?
I thought it a little pessimistic as an ending comment myself.
Now I am not sure if the mods will post the rest of this till much later, we'll see.
He just went to Baghdad.
Was that a security breach. what time was this post made?
Was that a hint that the president was off to somewhere dangerous and o all be nice about waiting. you will be treated well. etc.
15;29
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"In a century, if Turkey is an Islamic Republic with a national day to celebrate Osama Bin Laden's birthday, then this visit will have failed."
i think it's more likely that in 100 years turkey is an islamic republic with a national day to celebrate barrack hussein obama's birthday.
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29, grignard.
Since much of an economic depression is related to panic and pessimism, if Obama has succeeded in raising the spirits of Americans, and maybe Europeans, this will lessen the roadblocks to our recovery. Obama, being Obama, I suspect this is part of his strategy.
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How successful was Obama trip to Europe? There are many definitions of success. It is all relative. Being suave for some is a mark of success. The problems (unresolved) are many so sweet talk to sustain euphoric mass fervor will not last forever. To a realist, Obama did not yet accomplish much. He may be eloquent, well versed, with impeccable presentation skills but that in this world does not secure a success. Politics were and are full of people with excellent educational background and impressive resumes. Some of those people reached the higher level of scientific discovery, but in politics, many faded quite fast. I, for one, am feeling relief that Bush camp(at least most of its players) faded into obscurity. That in itself is an amazing improvement. Yet, I still have reservations about where Obama and his people are leading us. I don't want to call a superficial facade of all-is-going-in-the-right-direction (infusion of new money paper into circulation for a wrong purpose may well be just that) to be called a success. For signs of any real success -in my dictionary anyway - we still have to wait. There are other important, and quite capable players in this global scenario, and we should not forget about that either.
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mr webb, though you may have heard a diplomat say a room full was 'wowed by him' and you may think he is taking to diplomacy 'as if he were made for it'; have you noticed how foolish his policies (especially for the 'long term') are ?? and, are you not concerned his behavior will (is already) degenerating to the atavistic ??
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If "it is all about tomorrow or the day after ("The David Axelrod line" you say) - well, I'd say: so far David Axelrod's mindset has been right on target.
Whereas, when it comes to your own approach, this piece contains subtle and familiar pessimistic jabs against Obama.
You really are going to have to put up with Obama, you know. Last year, in the early stages of his race for the presidency, you were positively bitchy when blogging about him.
And in this piece, the last unfinished phrase: "If he is still around..." What did you mean by that? The wording is a little unfortunate. This President will always be a particularly obvious target for assassination. I could pass over those words if the number of years you referred to was just a hundred, but it wasn't. You said if he was around in a year or 10... (or 100). You know, Hillary Clinton made a mistake at the very end of her campaign when she was talking about timing, and used Bobby Kennedy's assassination for an argument. Deliberate or not, it was bad judgement and it was unacceptable. She knew better.
That applies to your mistake here too.
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To #1 Isenhorn,
I was not taught that America owns the moon. I was taught that through our space program, NASA, we were able to make a very important landing on the moon in which our astronauts decided to plant an American flag into the soil on our orbitting body. So that does mean that we have a 'stamp' on the moon, but in no way was it meant to claim the moon for America. It is a testament to the will of humanity to explore the vast expanses that lay in front of us, not any sngle accomplishment of competition. I say you need to get a tad bit less cynical and realize that Americans may not be what you percieve them to be. While it would be an embarrasment to see one of the world's poorest nations achieve a colony on the moon before the rich and powerful 'western' ones, I believe they have every right to try. I also believe they can develop nukes if they want to. However I also believe that should they do something rash, they would be utterly humbled by the largest nuclear arsenal in the world (America). I hope that nothing like that happens, but ironically America feels the burden to ensure responsible handling of nucelar power because of our guilt in what we did with them in Japan. This related to Obama because he truly has given a sense of 'hope' to many Americans, and I believe it would be TOO cynical to judge him too soon, for many of the effects that are brought about by great men are only fully seen as such once the men are gone. Let history be the judge. Power is currently in America's hands, but times will change things, just as they did to the vast British Empire (not that we're an empire). So, have more faith in Americans, including Obama, and please do not make far-off judgements about what is taught in my home country. Why you don't like us I do not know, but have a little more compassion.
Peace and Love from Boulder, Colorado, America. We love British people here.
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What an amazing grasp of the trivial. How many years of practice were necessary to be able to reduce the President's grand tour to such a lowest common denominator? If only your piece had the wit of a Wilde, Shaw or Churchill it might have been tolerable, however, even in this dimension it was lacking. Maybe you should start writing a Blog about cute baby animals in European zoos and skip international politics.
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One or two people seem to jump to conclusions a little too fast. Like over "if he's still around".
The possibility of a head of state being assassinated is not what tends to be first in Europeans' minds. But the potential shortness of a politician's political lifespan often is, however popular they might be in the first hundred days . . .
In some ways, Obama clearly represents a turnaround that could be far more radical than many Americans seem prepared for. Would that be too much for him to be elected for a second term? As so often happens, will that (by European terms relatively mild radicalism) just fizzle out as the next presidential campaign begins in eighteen months' time?
And, given the polarisation of American politics (and the sheer personal viciousness one sees from the American political right, in the US media as well as in this blog) I for one would not be in the least surprised if the Republicans don't waste months in 2010 trying to impeach him for something nonsensical.
What changes political directions is so often not personalities, ideologies, or even assassinations, just "events, dear boy, events." And there are going to be a lot of events piling up in the next couple of years which will very probably have nothing whatsoever to do with Turkey, Afghanistan, Iran or the moon even.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Miraculouslydim,
- "have you noticed how foolish his policies (especially for the 'long term') are ??"
No. Might you do us all a favour and be a bit more miraculouslyspecific? or miraculouslyconstructive????Complain about this comment
Forest Blake
- "the soil on our orbitting body"
There is no soil on the moon - only sand and gravel. ish,- "And, given the polarisation of American politics (and the sheer personal viciousness one sees from the American political right, in the US media as well as in this blog) I for one would not be in the least surprised if the Republicans don't waste months in 2010 trying to impeach him for something nonsensical."
Indeed, it will be a surprise if they don't. Spots and leopards....Salaam, etc.
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Re 51
Its good to see some concrete examples of what I constantly see with Justin's blog - too much "attitude" - bitchy comments, a cynical, world weary viewpoint, so lacking in any sort of positiveness. Obama has given us some of the best chances since Gorbachev for advancing global peace and prosperity. And after the Bush catastrophe. Lets give him a bit of a chance...
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"Such a shame that the British and Europeans fail to think about the fact that the United States has saved their sorry rearends for two world wars and lost thousands of young men just so they could have future generations complain about how mean and bad the US is."
Dear oh dear. Apart from the appalling lack of respect for the other allied dead that this implies it also shows a shocking ignorance of the facts. I suppose no American criticises Russia as they could be said to have saved America in WW2? This is just as facile a comment. Of course there is huge gratitude but don't talk as if Britain (or some other parts of Europe) rolled over. I suggest you read a history book or two and escape the coccoon of banal American nationalism.
Even if your point was correct does that disbar anyone from criticising USA ad infinitum? Or is free speech more important?
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Everybody seems to have missed something, a lot of the Obama effect has been amplified by 8 years of Bush. I am not saying that Obama is not the most hopeful President for years but the effect would be a lot less if he had come after Clinton for example.
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41 Gary a nation that has fought to stay secular may take objection to being called an islamic.
Just as some americans would get offended if it were called a jewish state or a christian state.
Or do you just want them to radicalise .
45 well said.
51 Brummie.
Lol I got to love it when people write in about this. Because I agree. Just check the jacksforge posts before the election.
Hasn't changed just a bit more polite about it now.
Justme. it is not just you that sees justin as. a little on the right of obama.well said.
america will throw away the opportunity of Obama just as they did when Gorby came cap in hand to the g6 (good old days.not) and Reagan the fool said "sod off we don't want to help in a orderly transition that creates stable democracy without a few rich hoarding all the wealth.
because it was Un american.
America loves to throw away chances for peace.
Like throwing Iran under the bus when they actually helped in the first days after 9/11.
61 good point.
bush really was a mess.
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As a British resident of the USA, I care about the BBC’s capacity to interpret the two nations to each other and the world and to stimulate informed debate. Unfortunately, in my view, this blog does not advance that capacity and I join others who have found it superficial and cynically provocative.
It would be naïve and unreasonable to demand that you like the US and Americans (see Comment #52). However, you appear to have lost the fascination with the country, warts and all, that you displayed when you first arrived. If I’m right, perhaps it’s time to move on.
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Sophia,
Get less Naiïve
;-)
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Is this the new kitchen? or is that too naïve?
;-)
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Hi Ed. This does look like a nice kitchen, and I guess we'll be needing a remodeled one any post now.
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Ooooh, I like the view.
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Are those sheep I see out there on the lawn? Is there a pub nearby?
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Who wants to live to 500 anyway!
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While out at a Bridal Shower for my niece (fun time had by all) I see we have left Russia and returned to Europe. Are we in any particular country? I travelled here on my Canadian passport as I am denied a British one. What sense does that make? As my British grandmother (aka Gran) said, "You always know who your mother is."!! (adoption aside.) Could we make it a southern one though? Unless of course Scotland.
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Could there also be a fat orange cat sleeping in rocking chair in the corner?
To our good Bere:
Why not goats? So much smarter than sheep and just as tasty. Their milk makes wonderful cheese! Just asking.
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71, aqua -
Go back to Russia and see why I am not particularly fond of goats.
The fat orange cat can be here if Evil Donald, the black and white muscular, big-boned cat can share the rocking chair.
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To# 72 Bere
'Evil Donald' sounds like a wonderful cat and I am sure he will be welcomed by the 'Countess' who only likes to eat, sleep and be warm.
Check my reply about goats in 'Russia.' We will agree to disagree about goats. Any one who is owned by a cat named 'Evil Donald' has my full understanding and total sympathy.
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73, aqua -
I did see your reply over in Russia.
I will agree to goats as long as you don't milk them in the kitchen. One of my long ago commune friends still lives near there and has goats and in the winter she brings them into the kitchen for milking. I presume she does this for her comfort rather than the goats'. Fortunately I have never been present for this, although I have on occasion helped her milk them in the barn.
And publius (I assume you'll make your way over here), we had a cow on the commune and I became very proficient in milking but a few years ago I tried my hand with a milking machine and had a devil of a time getting those suction things on the teats.
And speaking of teats, are you guys familiar with the story of Fred Tuttle?
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Ref 65 hesiodos
You can be naive, I'll be dense. I missed the well placed cue. I posted a 498 with bread crumbs (though it looks like bere found this kitchen).
Yes, sirs and ma'ams. Looks like another good kitchen. Plenty of room for the kitchen band to set up over by the pantry; a place over there by the broom closet to set up the projection screen for pictures and videos. The kettle's on a boil for tea. I smell tortillas; is that Many Changing Woman at the stove? I see the pa of sean already has the bbq fired up outside the back door. Our Canadian Pinko should be here in a minute. He's parking his scooter.
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I think that our good 'Timely' member has belled the cat and posted #500!
I am still trying to do my best on the 'Catholic' thread. I fear I have let the Kitchen Squad down by not doing my share of posting on other threads. All of you are so much better at this. By the time I have organized my thoughts, that loco horse has galloped in another direction. I can only stand back and cheer you all on!
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76, aqua -
I don't know why you think you're not holding your own on the other threads. I think your comments are excellent. Sometimes it is difficult to figure out what direction the horse has gone. That one has become somewhat tiresome too. It's cozier here in the kitchen. I have my cup of tea. I see publius is here, with his poetic way with words. I might check over in Catholic land a time or two but I'd rather stay here.
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Test:
I.F. needs to make shorter posts.
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timewaits,
re: Chelsea, done.
And I can't believe I missed the segway opportunity to yet another guitar pluckin' gal: an oldie, but goodie. And, according to local legend, written in and about this Chelsea.
As for location, here in Europe: Zurich, Cabaret Voltaire, circa 1916?
"Total pandemonium. The people around us are shouting, laughing, and gesticulating. Our replies are sighs of love, volleys of hiccups, poems, moos… "
--Jean Arp, talking about a night at the Cabaret, circa 1916
Yours,
Pinko
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To Bere
Thank you. Please pour me a cup of tea with just a little splash of milk and I will try to tell you.
For most of my life I have not lived what most people now would call 'main stream.' My dear one and I had other ideas, we lived and had experiences that I would never trade for so called safety or a large bank account. We have strong beliefs about treating others always as we would want to be treated and that is how we conducted our lives and raised our children.
When we were very young, we did believe that the world would change and people could come together in peace. That was more wars ago than we want to count. We always hold hope but to keep fighting the good fight for peace we need all of you young people, so committed, so eloquent for the rights of others to stand up and speak out for those who cannot speak.
It is not that we are any less committed, it is that the time comes when our young must step up, take bread and salt and speak their truths. I am not eloquent but I know what is in my heart.
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Cronophobe
When you get here.
Bere seems to be having fun on the scooter ride we're taking. Thanks for joining up and diverting our route. Most of it is new territory for me. I've crossed the Ottawa. The rest is probably new ground for me.
Timewaitsfornoman
When my mother met my father he came riding up on an Indian Scout. His roommate was dating her sister. The roomy thought my mother would be a great match for my father. (She is) My mother found Dad to be handsome, intelligent, polite, yet arrogant. Dad talked her into taking a ride on the Scout with him. She burnt her leg on the exhaust. She has never liked motorcyles since. (Although I think it had more to do with my Father's love of adrendline rushes and daring that formed her opinion)
My mother did ride the scooter with him many times after that. But, she used her wiles to get him to give it up after they married. It wasn't until BrotherG bought a motorcycle as his first vehicle after getting his drivers license that Dad got to renew his love of two-wheeled transportation. (An irony: The title for the 250cc motorcycle was in her name since BrotherG was a minor)
She still does not "know" I have a motorcycle. (It's better that way) I also do a lot of bicycle riding, both road and mountain. When she over-hears bits of conversation between BrotherG, Dad, and I about riding motorcycles; she is comfortable with thinking we're are talking about riding bicycles. (Of course; you women know that it is all an illusion)
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If we are not "mooing" with Jean Arp in Zurich, cira 1916, I suggest we meet up here! I know it will make aqua happy. And chrono won't mind as he has a thing for girls with guitars. I would think especially a Canadian one.
I was "timely" was I not? Tried to be #500 and not only managed it but also, without knowing, answered Detroit's question #498. I wonder if we would have as much fun if we met in person?
I'm steering clear of the Catholic question, not being one!
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aqua -
Ah, you are far more eloquent than you know.
It sounds like you have fought a good fight and deserve to rest and have others take over. You put me to shame. I'm afraid I have become cynical; I no longer expect much to change or much good to happen in this world. My life has been quite different from yours. The struggle that wore me down was close to home, not on the world stage.
There are those times when we expect others to come to our aid and support and instead they turn away due to . . . what? Fear? Selfishness? I've never known. The lesson learned is that people cannot be trusted. But I have never expected anyone to do for me what I would not do for them in return.
Lately on these blogs I have come into contact with those whose attitudes astound me. And I've seen that no amount of reasoned argument will change their minds. I wish I had your energy.
My husband used to ridicule me because I thought life should be fair. I still believe it should be, but it's not and what I believe doesn't matter. I have strong feelings about things and I've raised my children accordingly and now it seems they are the round pegs who don't fit into the square holes and I may have made it difficult for them to function like other people in this crazy money-obsessed world. We've never been "mainstream," and now I'm not sure that's a good thing.
The others on here are the ones you should look to to fight the good fight. I admire them, but do not think I am of the same caliber. They are committed.
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81 publiusdetroit
"Indian Scout" I thought you were talking about a horse! Guess it was word association. Well! I'm amused!
P.S. The link is about a mile long! If it doesn't work good luck!
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aqua -
I have to make an addendum to my previous post. I would fight to the death to maintain my daughter's (and any other woman's) right to control her body and her reproductive choices. I get so angry at those men, who will never be faced with an unwanted pregnancy, talking so sanctimoniously about what women shouldn't be allowed to do with their own bodies.
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Reporting from the 'Catholic'thread:
Immigration and abortion, those cakes have been in the rain almost as long as Palestine vs Israel! Not fit for human consumption!
Let us bake something better and tasty.
To our good Bere:
You are really a tough cookie and do not appreciate that. However, it is cake wanted this night, rich, gooey, fat and sugar laden CAKE!
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aqua -
Aaargghh! You talk about gooey cake and I haven't got so much as a speck of chocolate in the house. Torturer!
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Listening to "Living on Earth" on NPR and they're talking about Matthew Henson, the man I taunted my high school history teacher with. I'm glad he's finally getting some credit for his venture to the North Pole, getting there a bit ahead of Peary. Forging ahead like Joe Sixsperm to win the race.
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Ref 82 timewaitsfornoman
I'm sure we would. Why not? We have shared a lot of life experiences without finding one another repulsive; at the worst. After the initial, so-that's-what-you-look-like; and perhaps, some toe-drawings on the tile; I think we would remember the people we are, and how we have entertained, comforted, challenged, and admired each other.
As far as myself; I've lived a life that is stranger than fiction by both circumstance as well as design. I loved the recollections of the old story tellers down at the grain elevator. I chose to compose a life of personal stories that would rival theirs rather than go through life gathering riches. My wealth has always come by living a life I find interesting. Even the chapters that are painful.
The only thing we have yet to enjoy in our kitchen party is the physical presence of each other.
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To our good Bere
I always have chocolate, a primary food group and I always share.
As to the abortion issue, I will stand right with you! I have three little great-granddaughters to protect and will not see this country return to what it was in my youth, when abortion was not legal.
Every woman's body is HER OWN and belongs to NO ONE ELSE but HER!
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Too many want to control other's lives. I am not that sort of person and resent and resist those who are. From the outside it seems the US spends too much time and energy on issues that I consider personal. I used to be more opinionated than was good for me but, either through age or out-and-out lack of interest, have become a lot more laissez faire. One of my nieces often asks my opinion on something family related. I remind her I keep my opinions to myself now. Her response, "I liked the old you better"!! (Knowing she could count on me for a good gossip session!)
My 84 link did not work. It was to Tonto's horse, Scout!
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re: IF, -- New handle? As to the shorter posts: in the case of many others, yes, yes, and yes again. You, on the other hand, are the exception that proves the rule.
timewaits -- Joni at the height of her considerable powers. And what a band! Thanks for that link. And hey, c'mon, the mooing fits -- Publius was out milking Jerseys back in the USSR.
Oh, and Paris? Bien sur Paris. J'adore.
Yours, Pinko
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Indian Scout? Seen the hopkins movie? Delightful. And jack's friend is happy, tcm currently has someone telling him he's all right. I have to say that I'm absolutely staggered this is on US tv.
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chrono
Thought I had better find out exactly where Chelsea is!! Looks like Ottawa is closer. Couldn't we meet in say, Lachute? Better yet, how about my favourite Italian Restaurant? I can walk there.
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timewaits, I meant to comment on your 82 and then forgot (because my brain cells leak out through my nostrils while I sleep) until publius just mentioned it. I would imagine it being like those descriptions of children at dancing class (I never had to actually experience that) where boys and girls in uncomfortable (perhaps even itchy a la Lemony Snicket) clothing stand on opposite sides of a room staring at each other bashfully. At first.
Would we have to wear those "Hello, My Name Is ..." tags? Can there be beer and good food?
Of course it's fun to think about and talk about but it would never be allowed by the moderators (we would all be referred).
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89, publius -
I too have had a life stranger than fiction, though not always by choice, and the good to come out of it is that I do have some excellent stories, and it's good to have stories. I've written a fictionalized account of some of it and one editor who rejected it said, "Things like that don't really happen. It's not believable." And this about something that really happened exactly as I wrote it! (All names changed, of course.) One of these things is that my dying husband tried to find me a new husband before he died, like an old Rock Hudson movie, without even asking my permission. And the person he chose happened to be already married. This was more bizarre than any soap opera. Needless to say, his plans came to naught.
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92, chrono -
Oh, was #78 a yes or no question from InterestedForeigner? I thought it was just some stranger who wandered in the wrong door. I agree with you. His posts are always interesting.
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chrono
I didn't say it didn't fit, only suggesting an alternative in case we prefer not to moo. J'adore aussi!
detroit
I was wondering if it would be different without the "mystic." We have probably said things it would normally take a while to come out in such new friendships. If we did meet, everyone would have a better understanding of my comments as they come with a lot of hand gestures, laughing and smiling!
bere
I don't think we should have name tags. We should not even identify ourselves. That would be interesting.
Did your husband know he was married? Mine maintains he would never remarry. I don't believe it has anything to do with total devotion to me but rather once was enough!!!!
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90. aquarizonagal:
[Squirrelpost]: That was nice of you over in Russia. Our spokeshuman appreciates it, but is playing the tethered goat there, just in case he's followed again. He's got an EU passport, though, so will probably be along when it looks safe.
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I was perplexed by #78 also. InterestedForeigner may write whatever he likes as far as I am concerned. Perhaps he wants to morph into Int-For and write shorter posts. If so, that is fine too. Maybe his fingers are tired....
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I agree that Interestedforeigner's post are most excellent and would hope he would join us in the kitchen.
To Timewaitsfornoman:
I am sorry that I am late in thanking you for Joni, love her and enjoyed the song.
About traveling:
Except for Mexico,we have not been out of the US in over five years and the last time we flew anywhere, my dear one became so cramped in his seat that it took two flight attendants to lever him out at our destination. He begged me to just let him die where he sat but I was having none of that! We do travel but only by car so we can stop as we please and enjoy the journey.
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98, timewaits -
Oh yes, he knew. It was someone we'd been friends with for years. And this person was willing to go along with it! Good grief. Men can be really strange. I didn't know whether to laugh about it or kill them both.
publius -
Before I forget: I'm curious - how did you come to light on Peacham Pond?
And now I'm off to engage in the brain-cells-leaking-out-of-the-nostrils activity.
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Ref 93 seanspa
I brought that movie with me to show my father while he was going through cyberknife treatments in January. He loved it! That would have been him if he did not marry my mother. Living in a garage and all. He and I had such a laugh together. Tears in our eyes.
Ref 96 bere54
I received a very simular letter when writing a fictionalized account of one of my true life stories. I got the biggest kick out of it. The letter was the best comfirmation I ever received that life is stranger than fiction. I love life!
timewaitsfornoman
Thanks for the "Scout" link. The Lone Ranger was my hero. I even have a picture of him actually signed by Clayton Moore while he was the Lone Ranger in the television series. Never missed a show.
I have a bi-fold picture frame with "The Old Man" (an acquired title deserving of my Marine father) astride his Indian Scout motorcycle with the Tawas Bay Lighthouse in the background. The other frame holds a picture of my tall, slender mother with naturally wavy blond hair (viking genes are real strong), striking a "pin-up" girl pose in her peasant blouse and short-shorts (at least by the standards of the day). Two iconic pictures worth two thousand words.
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aqua- we can go anywhere we like in our minds, so you will join us in Paris won't you? Sorry to hear that about your husband, it must have been distressing - for you both!
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To all:
Our dear Chronophobe has been holding the fort on two fronts. He has concerns about leaving spoor should he exit Russia and he has been posting valiantly on the 'Catholic' thread. I will see what I can do for him in Russia.
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92 Pinko and 97 Bere
Yes, it's me, "Foreigner".
Pinko, the water will still be like liquid ice in Lac Deschenes for a good while yet, and it will be damp underfoot going up to Pink's Lake, Kinsgmere and the Lookout.
Still, I hear the beat of drums in the forest. The warriors are putting on paint. They are girding for war. It looks very much as if there's going to be another election this spring.
Justin, be ready.
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Ref 102 bere54
Because it sounded quaint:-)
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Pinko:
And on a completely different subject, do you remember the Towne Cinema on Beechwood? Is it still there?
Well they used to show the Cannes Advertising Film festival reels. Some of the ads were really spectacular. The advertising festival goes back to 1954, so figured I might buy a few DVD's. Went to the Official website. They only have DVD's back to 2007 (yeah, so long ago ...) Not like anybody could have figured out that there migth be a market for, say, a 50th anniversary commemorative disc?
No reason why anybody would want to see award winning ads from, say, the 1970's or 1980's. It couldn't possibly be that anybody could continue to appreciate their sparkling creativity. After all, nobody thinks Warhol's soupcan or images of Marilyn are worth looking at any more ...
And as for the 2007 festival,
They want 170 Euros per DVD.
That's right:
one year
170 Euros.
Not C$, Not US $. EUROS. 170 Big ones. Plus shipping!
Roughly C$ 400/DVD, all in.
Are these people out of their minds?
You've got to wonder about the mentality. Who is going to pay that kind of money for a 90 minute DVD? Each director can only have one mother. Maybe a favorite aunt, a grandmother, perhaps. 170 Euros. Yep, they're going to sell scads & scads of them at that price. Probably almost three dozen.
Because, after all, why would anybody who made these commercials want them to be seen? Why would anybody who paid for these commercials want them to be seen? What would be the point of advertising if people could actually see it? Of course, the advertisers and the advertising companies would want to keep it secret. Isn't that what you'd expect them to do with award winning ads? Because if the word ever got out that advertising could actually be well made, what would the world come to. It would be the apocalypse. Sure, it all makes sense.
170 Euros.
That's my last rant for the day.
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bere and publius,
Regarding your literary efforts -- re-write as science fiction! Throw in a few time loops, or the like, and Bob's your uncle.
Historical fiction is also a possibility. But then there's all that research. Or not, judging by some of the schlock that is published.
Ain't I helpful . . .
Yours,
Pinko
PS -- publius, google Gatineau Park, look for a link to the NCC. The cycle touring grounds I was going on about. I'm too sleepy to .... ZZZZZ
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To Chronophobe:
Anyone returning to Russia will see my last post of total rot. I was trying to cover your back but see you needed no help.
WELCOME!
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Int-For
"another election" - Really?? I have received many emails asking if I want to go to some obscure place and for $50. have breakfast with someone I have never heard of. So far I have declined. Perhaps if they invite me to go around the corner to eat with my own MP I might accept. I'm sure you can guess his name is not Justin!
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aquarizonagal
I wish you and your dear one a safe trip.
We have not heard from the coyote today. How about we have Joni tell a story about him?
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Ref 111 cronophobe
Beautiful!
BrotherG and I are planning a scooter trip to the Keweenaw Peninsula in Michigan's Upper Peninsula for this summer. Lots of wilderness.
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publius, I am on standby. Eugene,watch out - or at least make sure that you have plenty of Guinness.
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Seanspa
Don't pack up right yet. If we don't hear from him tomorrow, I'll see if he's home. Unless Hesiodos has heard something. You don't want to get to Eugene and not get a Guinness at the end of the trip.
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Noman,
- "My 84 link did not work. It was to Tonto's horse, Scout!"
Hint: you should follow the link on a google search, 'cause if you just copy it from the search resultss page, you get all of gpoogle's rubbish too.It was a disgusting picture, though, Kemo Sabe. (Ed Abbey always said Kemo Sabe meant [faeces]head in Navaho....)
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Bere (95),
- "Of course it's fun to think about and talk about but it would never be allowed by the moderators (we would all be referred)."
No name tags, but we should invite the Mods - you never know...Noman,
- "Did your husband know he was married?"
Not much a marriage if he didn't.No secret comms from the happy source - not worried. btw, code for the black stuff is Liffey Water, or just Liffey....yummmmm! Slips down sooooooo easy - toooo easy!
Int-For, just testing the capacities of the many-changing archway, needing a re-incarnation, or....? I concur with the consensus that your posts can be any length you like...they will be read and worth the reading.
Another glorious springtime day - sunshine, birdsong, air temp 15 celsius (59 F)Brilliant starlight last night, Larch and Hawthorn breening up, willow catkins in their innumerable varieties, and many other leaves peeking out, including oaks and birches, and a brilliant show of flowers on a couple of Norway Maples, to mention just a few of the signs of spring...
Zippitty do dah!
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Heloise
I had a thought, I do from time to time. Instead of counter pointing, perhaps you would give us your proposed solutions to the ever pressing issue? Not here! we have only just arrived, haven't been to the Louvre yet, but on another thread should/when the topic resurfaces. A summary. I would be very interested. [And if you could try not to bring Wendell Berry or some really, really old guy long dead into it, I would appreciate it. I jest!] It is not the issue I am opposed to, but the arguing! I'm fragile, it distresses me. (Perhaps you have but for me it was lost in the back and forth.)
I would like to form an opinion, rather than my usual, "I don't know enough about it. Nor do I have a solution." (My sympathies always lie with the underdog. Poor expression but...)
I didn't link to a disgusting picture! - it was only Scout, Tonto (whatever his name means) was not in it. And I loved Tonto!!
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111. Chrono. No, I meant the other Justin, i.e., Justin Webb. But I suppose it applies to Justin Trudeau as much, or more so.
116. Hesid, 118. Timewaits
I always thought that "Qemo sabe" was an aural corruption of "qui no sabe", meaning, in Spanish, "the guy who doesn't know".
Tonto in Spanish means "fool".
So, the fool and the guy who doesn't know - a great combination.
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117, Heloise -
Noman,
* "Did your husband know he was married?"
Not much a marriage if he didn't. "
---
That gave me a chuckle too but I knew what she meant!
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Interestedforeigner
To go back to the expression "au but." Anglophones in Quebec often take French expressions and use them when speaking English. I have always understood "au but" (when used in English) to mean "totally" as in, "He is an animal lover au but." Meaning, it would be hard to find someone who loves animals more than he does. But, maybe I have misunderstood and they don't mean that at all!!
119 You had just mentioned Justin Trudeau, so assumed.....
bere
I'm making an effort not to be too wordy!! I told my sister not to mention to a man we knew that we were having a baby shower for his wife as it was as secret. Her response, "He must know she's pregnant?" OMG! The shower! not the pregnancy!!
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Looked out the shorts today with 73F expected. I can report that New York strip steaks are delicious, and I can actually cook them pretty well as long as Sean tells me when to take them off the bbq. Just wish they weren't so darn expensive.
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Timewaits (118), Namaste,
- "Instead of counter pointing, perhaps you would give us your proposed solutions to the ever pressing issue? Not here! we have only just arrived, haven't been to the Louvre yet, but on another thread should/when the topic resurfaces. A summary. I would be very interested."
Not here, I agree, but I have provided several "summaries" and other resources and a little historic data, and a parable. Please feel free to bookmark any of these for perusal when time allows.In the meantime, there is an open area which some may find of use.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace
ed
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timewaits -
Now I really have been a criminal and I've been caught out!
I mail a lot of books to my sister by media mail (it's the cheapest way) and you're not supposed to have anything non-media in the package. I sent her a box two weeks ago with some practically irreplaceable books and at the last minute, without thinking much about it, I put in a couple of bars of soap and a bottle of lotion that I was planning on sending her separately but since there was a bit of room in the box I just put them in. We've been a little worried because she hadn't received the box yet.
This morning I got a notice from a NC post office saying they have an "empty wrapper" that apparently came off a parcel (there was no wrapper) and in order for them to find the contents they have to have a complete description of the contents! I think this is a trick to get me to confess the contents without their having to confess that they opened my package.
The books aren't valuable to anyone but me, but most of them are out of print. I may be able to find them on the internet. What am I to do? Well, what I'm going to do right now is go to my local post office and ask some questions. This is scary.
If you don't ever hear from me again, it's because I'll be rotting away in jail for sending soap and lotion by media mail. There's probably something about it being a terrorist action in the Patriot Act.
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Greetings:
To 104 our 'Timely One'
It actually was not that distressing for either of us. It was harder on the crew. My dear one has a wicked sense of humor. After the plea to be left to die in his seat, he added that when this occurred they could set the plane on fire, push it into Boston Harbor, so he could have a glorious Viking funeral. We both burst into hysterical laughter because viking funerals are a private joke. This further distressed the crew who at that point probably wanted to burn the plane with both of us on board!
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In Scotland, we have "Aye, but..." and a friend used it as a chapter title in his excellent book on Land and Power....a chapter devoted, of course, to objections to sweet Reason....
We also have "Aye, right" (sometimes "Aye, that'll be right!"), meaning "No".
"Aye" can be said with countless inflections and even more meanings than almost any other word....
;-)
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To#112 Publiusdetroit
Thank you for more Joni.
I am puzzled. Where are we going? Does my dear one have a secret plan to whisk me away to Europe for a romantic holiday. Cannot be, my dear one has no secrets left and there is no 'Chunnel' across the Atlantic for us to drive. I wish we could be 'beamed' there, to actually experience transporter science! Imagine just standing on a pad, having your atoms scrambled and sent off to some exotic place! Too thrilling!
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IF,
The Towne Cinema is long gone. The art/repetory house is the Bytowne, on Rideau, just to the east of King Edward (just a couple o' blocks from my house, I might add.)
I don't go that much, as I am not a huge movie fan. I do love Terry Malik flicks, though. All four of 'em. The Thin Red Line is the best war movie ever made. Period. The New World is pure cinematic brilliance.
Most movies run like illustrated novels or short stories. Malik's flicks use images, music, sound, and dialogue to tell stories in a way only possible on the screen.
I'm so cinema nerdy. What can I say.
Yours,
Pinko
PS, nice rant about the Euro priced DVD. And the kicker is ... it's probably in PAL format, and wouldn't work on your player anyway!
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It looks as thought we will be spending some time in the UK this summer. One of my wife's sisters is hoping to move to Stranraer shortly, so we may have to go visit her there. If so, it seems a good opportunity to sample some of the local liffey water.
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Bere,
They will have detected liquid or scent, and will be worried about possible explosives. The best move is to confess. They have ways......
Alternatively, head for the border quickly!
"Follow the drinking gourd..."
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Heloise -
Thanks, so far my opinion is somebody should do something! More somewhere else at some other time.
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Well, I haven't been arrested. Apparently it's quite ordinary in the USPS for packages to get smashed in the processing machines and the contents to be scattered in all directions. Had I known this I would have sent the books by a competing service which is not in the habit of bashing boxes to bits.
Since I'm not in jail, I've been thinking about this proposed get-together. If the Webbies merited an award ceremony, and if someone (Justin?) were to cover expenses for travel, hotel, gowns (and penguin suits), and provide lots of good food and drink, that would be a good way to meet up.
Um, so what are the chances of that, do you think?
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124 bere
Oh dear! - I would describe the books and neglect to mention the lotion, etc. If asked say, "I was wondering what happened to that lotion?" At the shower yesterday a girl told us of a large wrapped gift she received and the scissors were wrapped inside! I thought for her benefit, but no, they'd been forgotten there. Apparently, you did the same.
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Bere
Surely this group could provide bail or a cake with a file.
What books, perhaps we have them?
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Sean's Pa (129),
- "One of my wife's sisters is hoping to move to Stranraer shortly,"
Not in itself the most beautiful spot in Scotland, but there are some very nice places not too far away, e.g. Portpatrick, and a bit further East, there's Palnackie, of course. Alternatively, the water can be crossed to visit the Liffey itself, though it's a fair bit of a drive from Belfast down....Slainté
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timewaits -
I did somehow neglect to include the lotion and soap on the form for describing the contents. I like your idea: "Oh my goodness, Mr. Postal Inspector, I've been looking all over for that bottle of lotion and those two bars of soap. How did they get in that package? Oh, I just can't imagine how that happened!" And then I'll do the tears-welling-in-the-eyes bit.
aqua -
I'm almost embarrassed to confess what books they were. I happen to love Georgette Heyer, who wrote extremely funny (and very well written) books back in the middle of the previous century (but taking place in the two prior to that), and some people consider them to be "romances," but only in the way Jane Austen's books would be. I've collected Heyer's books over the years and it was five of my favorites I was sending to my sister, who loves them as well. Some of them were reissued a few years ago in trade paperback but they're hard to find. I guess that means somebody besides me wants them. I seriously doubt any of you have even heard of her; most people haven't. Oh well. I'll start prowling the used-book websites.
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Ref 127 aquarizonagal
Sorry. I was having a very dense day, yesterday. Had something working in the back of my mind that was distracting my cognitive processes.
You had mentioned packing to go to Europe. I took it literal instead of as intended.
I think I'm better today.
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To Chronophobe
I really like Margaret Atwood. Why have I not read the book you mentioned on the Catholic thread? Too busy re-reading "rubbish," I guess. We do not have a lot of access to libraries and good book stores so I just read what I have lying around.
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121 Timewaits.
Au but - I'm going to have to ask a friend.
There are lots of expressions used in Quebec that are funny, or reflect a certain cultural mixing. French etymology is not my specialty, but I do enjoy it. Here are some I remember:
Pizza tout dresse (Pizza with the works)
Un boss des becosses (a martinet)
Becifeur (a kind of evergreen tree from out west)
Le tete a Papineau (somebody really clever)
Un Pepsi (a real Quebecer, e.g., from Montreal-est. No idea where this expression comes from, except that Pepsi goes really well with Poutine).
Un vrai brosse (a strong drink, or drinks, or the combined effect thereof, as in "Lucien avait un vrai brosse.")
Pacte (the state of being blind drunk, as in "Le marriage de Lucie? Ah, ouais, son cousin Lucien etait vraiment pacte, cette fois la.")
Cesse de chialer! (Quit your whining!)
There are hundreds of them. Trying to figure out what they mean, or where they come from, is a bit like trying to understand old time Newfoundland expressions in English. Oh, the richness of language.
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128 Chrono.
Thanks. Sorry to hear that. The seemed to run Rocky Horror every Friday night for years and years, but I guess things change and move on. Hope they haven't paved over the Farm, though.
You live in a lovely, and lively, part of town.
Thin Red Line is familiar.
Didn't think about the PAL issue. And if you shelled out the 170 Euros, wouldn't that have been the final irony, too?
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To Bere
Happy you have returned sans chains!
I know of Georgette Heyer. Our mother enjoyed her books. I will ask my sister as she inherited many of Mama's books. I love Sci-fi, myself which my dear one calls "rubbish" but then he is a serious scholar with a much higher mind than mine.
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Ref 138 aquarizonagal
Take a look at the Gutenberg project here.
A free on-line library that continues to grow.
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publius -
Perhaps it was all that fresh air and the picnic lunch and the after-ride drinks that disturbed your cognitive processes. We must do it again sometime.
It's very funny about Peacham Pond. A year or so ago I was living right down the road from there. I haven't actually been to the pond itself because it's down a Class 4 road and one needs a really sturdy truck or an ATV to travel it. Hiking would be in order.
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141, aqua -
I'm so pleased you've heard of Heyer!
I have had my moments with sci-fi. And not only Douglas Adams, but David Eddings (I guess that's really in the "fantasy" category though) and a bunch of other authors whose names I can't remember. I've read a lot of Terry Pratchett. Is that considered sci-fi? He's up there in a category of "Excellent Wackos" with Adams.
In my "late youth" (doesn't that sound better than "middle-age"?) I have decided to concentrate on "rubbish." But my standards even for rubbish are pretty high (I'm in a John le Carre phase right now) so what I consider to be rubbish is not trash, if you know what I mean. I think of it as "chocolate" reading. Comfy stuff. Must be well-written and preferably funny. I hadn't realized before that le Carre can be funny.
And I will have to look for the Margaret Atwood. She's not rubbishy but I can make exceptions.
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To#142 Publiusdetroit
Thank you for the link.
Perhaps I will use it but I am so old fashioned. I love to feel the book and turn the pages. One of our grandchildren suggested getting us a 'Kindle'(?), something, like an I-pod for downloading books, I guess. My dear one was horrified but they had a device like that on Star Trek so I think I could adapt.
We have thousands of books in our personal library that we have collected over the years and hung onto over many moves. We have no problems re-reading things we really like.
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aquarizonagal
"a cake with a file"!!!! - If you bake it, I could drive it down there probably undetected. One look at one of my cakes and they would wonder why I was bothering.
bere
Awards ceremony - that was my thinking when I asked if we were all going out to dinner. Goodness - fish for an invitation and then silence! Not even a weak excuse as a response.
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Bere
I'm glad we went riding yesterday. It's rainy and cold today. Not much change expected tomorrow. Michigan is the center of a big swirling easterly. It will take at least another day for that nice high pressure system seanspa is enjoying to get to me.
Today, Granfather Sun is bringing a gentle shower so Grandmother Earth can wash herself of winter grays and browns. Already she begins wearing her green grass robe and Grandfather Sun has begun to adorn the grass robe with bright flowers.
Red tulips have joined white and yellow daffodil to paint the robe. A forsythia becomes jealous of their showy display and bares it's yellow blossoms. Soon the lilac will show up with sweet purple scents.
Granfather Sun and Grandmother Earth have already begun their dance of impregnation; bringing new life from among the sleeping soil. Soon they will frollick and laugh unashamed through warm, butter-scotch days.
Manitou is pleased with the children of creation.
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Dear Timewaits:
I left you a note at 139 with some good old Quebec expressions. Apparently the moderators on duty today don't speak French.
It's a good thing I didn't discuss:
communion wafers
the hillside of sorrows (more poetically, "the vale of tears", perhaps?)
the holy grail
sacred things that are blue
quotations from P. Trudeau in the House of Commons on soil quality
and such like.
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Ref 145 aquarizoniagal
I still like the feel of a book in my hands, but what is so nice about the Gutenberg library is that it takes up so little space and needs no dusting.
I once had a library with thousands of volumes I happily toted from place to place. I moved to a small house that suits my needs, except for enough space to shelve the library. A number of small town libraries accepted my donations to add to their collections. I retained the best of the best.
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145, aqua -
I'm with you when it comes to holding the book and turning the pages. But I would never even consider trying to adapt to a Kindle. Curling up with a cup of tea and a machine? No way. What's next? Robots in the bed?
I buy books on-line only if I'm looking for something in particular and have fruitlessly scoured all the secondhand bookshops within reach. There's nothing so pleasant as browsing through a good bookstore, especially one with a cafe. I have a fairly large collection, and have been introducing my sister to authors she'd never heard of, which is why we've been mailing books back and forth.
She just called me after reading the poignant email I sent her this morning, and has said she will reimburse me the additional postage if I will please from now on send the books first class and insure them. Particularly if I'm going to enclose beauty aids.
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147, publius -
You paint a picture that won't be seen here for several more weeks. Except for the odd crocus. "Warm butter-scotch days." What an image that brings forth!
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148 Int-For
Yes, good thing. It is such a peculiarity isn't it? A friend has a young niece (12yrs) living in France. She went home after spending the summer in Quebec and proceeded to use her new found swear words. Her parents' Parisian friends were perplexed; Why does she keep naming all these religious objects?
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Oh good people!
A grandchild just sent me the most hilarious link. Please do not ask me to import it, despite all of our good Singer's tutorials, I will confess I am hopeless at that. Just go to FOX/Family Guy and episode entitled "420" and fast forward to the musical scene.
Where is Happylaze? This bong is definitely for him!
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Addendum:
My grandchild's link came via the Huff Post, easier to go there and hit: "Family guy loves.... (a certain herb which probably cannot be named here.)
Too Funny!
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To#154 Bere
Since I love Isaac Asimov's books, I am not exactly sure that I agree about your "robots in bed" comment but I do understand what you are saying. I have been introducing my own sister to new reading, as well. Fortunately we live within reasonable driving distance and see each other often for book exchange and other activities. She mostly likes books about political intrigue and conspiracy theories but I am trying to expand her horizons, gently.
Why do some people consider Sci-Fi so frivolous? I have seen what I read about over 60 years ago become concrete reality. I also like a lot of the so called fantasy writers. Sometimes the world can just be too much with me and I need to escape.
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loll folks how many hippies forget it's 420 because they are on the case already.
This one.
I see it like devils and such on Halloween. best stay in tonight. let the tourists have their day.
That other thread is a pile of racist rubbish as usual.
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385 on the military blog.
they got it up see how long
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time for me to go get a bong
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155, aqua
The only people who consider science fiction to be frivolous are those who've never read any. One of the most profound stories I've ever read was in a collection by Arthur C. Clarke, but of course I can't remember the title. As with any other genre, there's the exceptional and the rubbish and then the truly bad (which I'm sure you never read!).
happy -
Happy bonging. Salute the day.
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Hey all. Marcus Erroneous is Definitely True pooh.
He made some comments in the catholic thread that were YET AGAIN the same as long lost MA points.
Call Him Marcus . tell him it was his fault that the french kicked him out of Med school he was arrogant enough to think that they would all speak french his way.
Who else would crap on about the Champaign bottles in the BBC after tony got in.
And the lisbon treaty.
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160, happylaze -
I think you're wrong about that. TT uses lots of paragraph breaks and MAII doesn't. I don't think MAII is clever enough to try to disguise himself with paragraph breaks. Also, there is a difference in the level of snideness. Maybe they're conjoined twins who take turns posting.
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To Happylaze:
I have to agree with our good Bere.
Unfortunately, there is no shortage of those who will continue spouting manure that some one else has to shovel.
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aqua, I love your metaphor.
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A hymn for tonight
Now let the music keep our spirits high
And let the buildings keep our children dry
Let creation reveal its secrets by and by
By and by--
When the light thats lost within us reaches the sky
G'night friends
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
happylaze -
Didn't know you were a songwriter. Loved your witty ditty on the Russia thread.
And g'night from me too.
Zzzzzzz
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lol bere and now the accusations start disappearing.
soon to come rants of paranoia and such.
I'll tell you what, go along with marbles and remember there are two headed truths
There was a polite response that was seen as off topic I suspect because it deals exclusively with my earlier accusation.
I am Off topic but when I complain that hijacking to Israel is OT nothing happens. See Aqua whY?
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Shhhh, go to sleep, little earth . . .
'Tiefer, tiefer, irgendwo in der Tiefe gibt es ein Licht'
(deeper, deeper, from the depths comes the light)
A lullaby from Kate.
Sweet dreams,
Pinko
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Waterboarding, hmmmmm, not kitchen talk, but will say I learned a new word - Consequentialism. The belief that the end justifies the means. Can't say I am a believer in that. Nor am I a true believer in cool and rainy days but that's what I have. Sent via Detroit I suppose and no doubt covering Vermont. Sometimes wonder what I am doing on this blog as my response to so many issues is, "Somebody should do something about it!" No point in my crafting a letter to my Congressperson, I don't have one!
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Timewaitsfornoman
I am afraid you're getting my rain. The center has moved west over Lake Michigan, but the water is coming up from the Gulf. It looks real cool on the METARS map.
The dots are weather reporting stations. The lines extending from the dots indicate the direction of the wind. Those with "barbs" at the end indicate wind speed. The more barbs, the higher the wind speed.
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How about a nice cheerful, soothing song to start a rainy day?
Cherokee Morning Song
Goes well with a cup of tea and biscuits.
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Detroit
Beautiful song, thanks. I'm a morning coffee person myself, so will pass on the tea. Even though I picked up some groceries yesterday do not have bread for toast, nor enough milk for cereal. Must break down and venture forth. But I really don't want to....
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Dear Timewaits:
First, I notice that the mods have finally cleared my post to you at 139.
Second, on the subject of "au but", I have been laboring under a delusion. I thought you were talking about "au but" meaning "at the end of", as in "The Post Office is at the end of the street" = "Le bureau des postes se trouve au but de la rue.", and I had thought you were using it in the context of "deep down at heart", i.e., au fond.
But that isn't what you were talking about.
In "au but" the t at the end is silent.
What you were talking about was "au bout", (and I am uncertain about the spelling here, because this expression is so inherently oral, not written), where the t at the end is pronounced, clear and sharp, almost like "butte". Sorry, I misunderstood.
In this one, "au bout" is a real honest-to-goodness Quebec expression that means I really love it, I'm crazy about it, way over the top, as in
"Ah, j'aime l'hockey au bout. Mais cette annee Le Canadien... je suis desole, ca me creve au couer."
[Oh, how I love hockey, I'm just crazy about it to the max. But this year, the Habs ... well, I'm crushed, my heart is breaking.]
Moderators: "Le Canadien" in French and "the Habs" in English are both nick-names for the Montreal Canadiens Hockey team, more formally "Le Club de Hockey Canadien". There is nothing risque or pornographic or racist in this post.
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To Publiusdetroit
Beautiful song!
I really needed it because I visited the new thread first this day. Mistake, but I had my small say. Do you know the music of Carlos Nakai?
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Interested -
Sorry! my error - I've never see it written! You are right, I'm talking about that "au bout" and yes there is a "t" sound. I thought "au but" meaning "at the end of" somehow translated into "completely, to the end of the world." But, what do I know? I'm just winging it here. Au but is clearly marked at the end of bike paths, and I always think, "could this not also be the beginning?" But then I am not French!
They also say Les Habs, Les (Nos) Glorieux, and bleu-blanc-rouge. But I'm sure you know that!
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Ref 174 aquarizonagal
I sure do know Carlos Kakai. I have 2 of his CD's and he appears on a couple different compiled native music CD's in my collection.
The words of the Morning Song translate:
"I am of the Great Spirit."
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Cold and rainy here too. I was so discombobulated by the postal kerfuffle yesterday that I forgot to go to the grocery store but I must go out today anyway and hope I don't forget again. Brrr. Must have chocolate and cookies to weather the weather.
Lovely song, publius. Soothing after reading the new thread. But to really boost my mood I go to my bookmark of the pirate music.
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I should have stayed in bed this day!
I just received a phone call from someone I did not know who wanted me to join an anti-immigration rally. I said NO! I explained my position on immigration and was treated to a horrible tirade and a threat. I cannot imagine why I received such a call, everyone in the county knows my position by now. I have spoken out enough times.
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175. Timewaits
Yes, and also "Le Tricolor", and my heart is heavy for them this morning. It doesn't look good.
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178, aqua -
It must have been an outside agitator. Maybe you should report whatever group it is for making telephone threats.
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To Bere
"You will get yours" seems a bit empty to me. I have no clue who this person may represent. I could not get a call back number. President Obama really needs to start doing something pronto about the border issues. Perhaps now that he has visited Mexico and South America, he will be more pro-active.
Hate mongers have nothing but my contempt and their snake venom does not frighten me.
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Total Trivia:
I just noticed this but I am sure that someone else has before me, the tab on this thread reads: Justin Webb's American: Loo. Does this mean we are all in the toilet?
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178 phone the FCC and say you received a hate call bere.
that is what it is.
181 Aqua . like take it down? that's my solution.
World without borders.
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lol aqua it says looking back on etc.
but your address window is shorter.
Your not in the Bog , well if we are it is for a quick puff.
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Aquaarizonagal
I always passionately agree with the Anti-Immigrationists. I encourge them to get extremely strong legislation passed to exile all immigrants and their families, even if born in the USA. I tell them I truly believe it is the ignorant riff-raff we have let into this country that is tearing our values to shreds and destroying it.
They get all giddy and excited. They invite me to rallies and want to send me literature and donate to the cause.
Then I tell them any one who did not have ancestors here prior to 4 July 1776 is an immigrant to this Nation must be exiled immediately for the good of our country. :-)
Most of them shut up when confronted in this manner.
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Thanks Publiusdetroit: our good 'Shaman'
It would not work for me. I cannot listen for very long to their bile before I know my blood pressure is threatening to blow the top of my head off. I try to keep my words gentle but firm and if things get too nasty, I terminate the conversation.
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This is off topic:
I fear that valiant heart and brilliant mind, Stephen Hawking, may soon pass through this life's doorway to a new journey. Perhaps he is ready but he will be missed!
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Whew. I'm glad I'm not in the toilet. My tab line just says Justin Webb's America: ...
Maybe that means I'm nowhere. Or maybe it's because I have three tabs open.
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Ref 187 aquarizonagal
I too am watching the path of Stephen Hawking. Certainly an icon of personal strenght upholding a brilliant mind.
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187, aqua -
Is there a topic?
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Bere,
Not really, we had been discussing immigration and I wanted to change the subject. I would call this the 'peaceful' space where anything, at least anything the PTBs will pass, can be discussed. However, whom ever was censoring in 'Russia' gave poor Britishish fits over his Latin posts. I offered him zakuski and lemon grass vodka just to stay with the ambiance of that thread but have heard no more. Perhaps he will come to our kitchen later.
The discussion on the 'torture' thread has been mostly civil but I have had about all of that I can handle.
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191, aqua -
Well, then I'll change the topic entirely and complain about my cat and the fact that he thinks I'm an idiot.
I keep his dry food in a covered plastic bin, and about an hour before his dinner time (and remember he's on a diet so no snacking) he decides he's hungry and starts haranguing me and when I ignore him, or explain to him that it's not time yet, or do anything else that does not involve preparing his food, he goes and stands on top of the food bin and yammers from there, implying that the entire problem is that I haven't been able to figure out what it is he wants so he has to spell it out, so to speak.
Okay, now it's time to feed him.
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Cats are wonderful, so self-assured and convinced of their own superiority over every other species. Ours often treat us in a manner suggesting we are both mentally deficient, very incompetent servants who need a lot of re-training.
The dogs make up for this by giving us full adoration, even our 'Spirit Dog' who holds himself somewhat aloof from the others but is very protective of me. Spirit Dog came to us injured and probably feral. At first we though he was part wolf but our vet says, no. He never barks or vocalizes and seems almost psychic in knowing what I want or need from him. A very interesting creature. I wish I could know his history.
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I hope this won't be a downer for the kitchen, but I am so upset about this strip-search case before the Supreme Court. They ask when it would be "proper" for school officials to conduct a strip search? Well, the answer should be never! If they've got a real problem in a school that really warrants drastic action, perhaps they should call the police. But first the parents should be called. Forcing a child to undress is child abuse, possibly sexual abuse. I simply cannot understand how anyone could think this humiliating practice could be acceptable.
I can't understand why that child did not refuse, though. My daughter, at the age of 13, refused to even allow an unwarranted search of her backpack during a random school-wide search. She stood up first to a teacher, then to the assistant principal, then to the police. When I commented on her courage, she said, "I wasn't brave. I cried!" Yeah, she cried. While facing up to all those adults. The only student who had ever done that in the history of random drug searches at that school. I call that brave. (And she had nothing in her backpack but schoolbooks.)
I can't even write here what I would have done to anyone who might have tried to strip-search her!
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To Bere
I feel so angry about what you wrote in your post, I am almost speechless. Unwarranted search is against our constitution.
Oh sorry, people can be stopped, searched and detained for DWB or DWM.
Oh sorry, children really have no legal rights under the law.
Oh sorry, people can be wiretapped and ease dropped upon with no warrant.
Oh sorry, someone just trampled our flag and our constitution.
My parents suffered and sacrificed to come to the US to escape just some of these things.
You have every right to bring this up here and to feel the anger and violation of any mother whose daughter would be subjected to this. I will also add why should our sons have to submit to this kind of search, as well? Unconscionable, despicable and disgusting!
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Ref 194 bere54
I agree with you that allowing schools permission to perform strip-searches is upsetting; and unconstitutional.
I can think of two principles employed by my small-town school who would easily find (for their personal interests) "reasonable cause" to demand strip-searches of young ladies on a regular basis, if given the legal opportunity to do so.
School officials are not officers of the law. The school officials should have contacted the police, instead of conducting an unlawful search themselves.
I can think of no good reason the court should rule this was a reasonable search.
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And I'd have backed you up, Bere!
GRRRRRRRR!
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aqua, publius -
What really worries me is that the with the make-up of the Court now, they will find it reasonable. I hold out hope though, because I understand that both Roberts and Alito have young daughters and they may want to think about how they would feel if this was done to their daughters (not to mention how the daughters would feel!). The NPR court reporter said that Justice Ginsberg's eyes were flashing fire during the argument. We know how she will decide.
I taught my kids to question authority if their common sense told them the authority was wrong. I think all children should be taught this, but apparently they are not. I've heard that girl (young woman now) in the case several times on the radio and each time I cry when she describes her ordeal. The two women involved, a school nurse and secretary, ought not to be allowed to set foot in a school again. They should have refused the principal's order to carry out the strip-search. I think they must be sadists. Why would anyone do that unless they were sadists?
Why is it people are allowed to treat children in ways adults would never stand for? Can you imagine if employers ordered their employees to undergo strip-searches at work because drug use was suspected? Or if they thought they were stealing office supplies?
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lol like customs it is sexual abuse.
some freak will say there is no sexual intent. but as Pub points out. maybe there is, who knows.
Only those that say no to doing searches can say for sure they were not pervs.
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nurse ratchet.
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198 I'm sure some have said strip or leave on the suspect of drugs. how else do yuo prove innocence with an accusation.
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To bere
Goddess bless our Justice Ginsberg, may she live long and prosper!
I hope you are right that Roberts and Alito might have some compassion because they have daughters.
All of this aside, why does anyone have the right for illegal search of a person if that person should be a child? Children really have no rights at all.
No right to equal protection under the law from starvation, abuse and neglect.
No right to protest and deny illegal search and detainment by any adult.
No rights.
I am also very angry and very sad.
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I was absolutely stunned when I first heard about this case a few weeks ago when it was accepted for hearing by the Supreme Court. I knew strange and unfair things were happening in schools but it never ever occurred to me that school officials would have the right to strip-search students.
We don't have a public high school here, so all the local kids go to a private academy where the officials have even more leeway as to what they can do than in a public school. I don't know if they are still doing this, but a few years ago I heard of cases where if a kid looked at all funny they would immediately take him/her over to the hospital and do a drug test, without asking parents' permission or even informing them.
The zero tolerance on drugs (even aspirin!) has turned everyone crazy. But I think they were just looking for more excuses to torment children even more than they already did. Years ago in Virginia where I lived, they were pulling kids out of class in elementary school and interrogating them as to whether their parents used drugs! (I don't think the fact that a lot of the parents made their living with a cash crop was any excuse to question small children.)
All this craziness was one of the reasons I pulled my kids out of school (my daughter was just taking a couple of classes at the high school when she just said no to the search) when they were 9 and 12. I could not deal with the mindless rules, the cruelty, and in some cases illiterate teachers.
Well, I won't rant about this anymore, but will go to bed instead. Thanks for listening.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
202. At 02:46am on 22 Apr 2009, aquarizonagal wrote:
"Children really have no rights at all. "
Well, there is the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child; but (guess what?) though the US has signed it, it hasn't been ratified except for the protocols on pornography and child soldiers. (The only parts the Republicans and the right reckoned might be politically popular.)
So there you are.
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I certainly hope my # 204 appears! I went to a lot of trouble putting it together. Linked to: BBC, CBC, and the Supreme Court of Canada! Can't imagine what could be wrong with any of those links. Maybe the moderators are fascinated by the information provided and are taking their time reading it all. Otherwise.....
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139/173 Interested -
"Pizza tout dresse (Pizza with the works)" - In Quebec we say, "All dressed pizza/hamburger/hot dog," so presume that is where "tout dresse" comes from. There are amusing stories regarding this expression when said outside of Quebec. In Newfoundland, my sister ordered, "a hamburger all dressed." When her meal arrived she asked about the side dish. Was told, "You asked for dressing, so the cook made you some"!! How accommodating! Whipped up "stove top dressing" for this weird "comes from away" (foreigner/outsider). Of course she had to eat it!
I said the same thing in Montana, but nobody raced into the kitchen to make dressing. All I got was a Huh?
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Since my # 204 has not appeared:
bere - My Supreme Court of Canada link was to our Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin. My comment, "I doubt she is an advocate of strip searching."
aqua - My CBC link was to Janet Napolitano's comments perpetuating the myth that the 9/11 terrorists entered through Canada and that the Canadian and Mexican borders must be treated equally.
detroit - My BBC link was to the Matthew Price article, "Detroit's Long Road to Ruin" and asking if you had seen it.
I then commented on Obama's reasons for declassifying CIA memos.
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We don't have a public high school here
UMM WHAT??
serious Bere no public schools. in the country , or town. and how does that happen.
where do the kids go if they are poor?
Wow.
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Time you should include lots of racially offensive war mongering and jingoistic ribbish if you want the mods to let all your post through ;)
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To Britishish
I want to respond to your #40 on the other torture thread here in the kitchen.
Many people did speak out in 2004 (I believe it was over 49%.) They went to the polls and voted against Bush. Majority does rule, after the election it was: "I won, now suck it up!"
I will tell you that I, personally, was afraid of my own government and did not do as much as I might have done. I had family members in vulnerable positions. Just having a so called permanent green card does not mean you cannot be deported. An uncle of mine discovered that fact when he spoke out too publicly against the McCarthy hearings. He was deported and spent what remained of his life in a gulag.
I did speak, but more mouse like than lion like. I did what I could.
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210 happy - True! Hadn't thought of that. Both Beverley McLachin and Janet Napolitano are white, so no racist comment to be made there. Perhaps the BBC is opposed to their own article on Detroit! Or maybe Napolitano is right and we should: Blame Canada! (There are several very funny hockey and beer youtube clips on the right, if you are interested in that sort of thing.)
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To our Timely One
I know well the propaganda that has been put forth about border security or lack there of. I have thought, I may be totally wrong about this, that blaming the Canadian border for the breach and tightening security there was a smoke screen. Our Southern border is a sieve, that cannot be adequately policed, we know this. Some of the 9/11 pilots actually trained in Arizona aviation schools. Anyone who believes that these people came all the way from Canada to train here, I have some beach front property across my road that I will sell you!
If there is too much focus on the Southern border as a port of entry for terrorists, the tinder box that is already here could explode into some nasty violence. We have vigilantes here but I will say no more about this.
Canadians should not take these comments of Napolitano too much to heart.
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208, timewaits -
Does that mean they're going to put up a fence along the US/Canadian border?
209, happlaze -
Sorry, I guess that - no public high school - does require a little explanation. We, along with a few other places in Vermont, have what is called "school choice." The school district pays the tuition for the "townies" to attend the private academy. The kids can "choose" to go there, or to another private school ten miles away (if they have some way to get there), or if there's space available they can go (if they have some way to get there) to a public school in a different town, also about ten miles away. Or they can go to a school up in Sherbrook, Quebec, but because of the border issues now that's become difficult.
The Academy has required chapel every morning and they can do that because they're private, even though the local kids really don't have another choice unless they have transportation. The private school can also refuse to educate "special needs" kids. One woman spent years in court trying to force them to take her handicapped child. So even though this academy functions as the local public high school, they don't have to abide by many of the rules public schools do, even though most of the money they take in comes from the local taxpayers. It's a very odd system. Apparently they do provide an excellent education - for the boarding students (mostly kids from Asian countries for some reason) and those who are allowed in the proper "track." And they do use a tracking system, which most public high schools no longer do.
None of the surrounding villages except the one ten miles away has a high school, so all of the kids have to attend the Academy. And if you were to come here you would notice that none of the teenagers have long hair (if they're males), or funny colored hair, or visible tattoos, or facial piercings. Academy rules. When we moved here my son had bright green hair and attracted a lot of attention because it was so unusual. Neither of my kids went to the Academy.
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211 aqua
In 2004 I asked a Canadian friend who lives in Vermont what he thought Kerry would be like as President (it never crossed my mind Bush would be re-elected, I was just thankful the four years were over). When he told me Bush would be re-elected (he is not a supporter) I was speechless! - could have been knocked over with a feather! I truly could not believe it, but he assured it was true. And he was right - it was!
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Ref 208 timewaitsfornoman
The Detroit Public School system is a complete wreck and has been for a couple decades, in the least. The State of Michigan has come in to run it at least twice. They get it heading in a better direction, then the citizens of Detroit demand that control be returned to the Detroit Board of Education. In a city where corruption is the rule, rather than the exception, The DBE is the most corrupt. The children suffer.
SonnyA went to private elementary schools, prior to his mother "establishing" a "residence" in a suburban community so he could attend the public school in that community. He commuted to school from his "other" residence in Detroit. (The definition of "permenant residence" in the State of Michigan is almost non-existent, and extremely vague in the few legal areas where there is some form of definition)
There were a number of problems with this arrangement. One was his elligibility to participate in sports. Very much a gray area. I had to (very discreetly) wrestle with the state high school athletic association to get him elligible.
I will note that SonnyA received a far better education in the suburban public school than either of the Christian private schools he attended. He was also far happier in the public school.
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bere thanks.
I was wondering if it was some state sponsored private school issue.
Seems that the state should provide funds for others to set up school in the area. or do they only think the richer religious based schools have a right to exist.
I like your comments on the religious and social observations and restrictions of this system.
Do they have Muslim schools etc?
What a sorry system of well I'm OK they seem to have.
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Ref 213 aquarizonagal
Whenever I hear stories of how porous our borders are, it always reminds me of a story my brother told me about an East German driving his car through the barb-wire and minefields of no-man's land into West Germany while BrotherG was posted in a guard tower on the border in the Fulda Pass.
The East German Army were firing at the speeding car from two guard towers with heavy machine guns and small arms fire. The car was riddled with bullets; somehow managing to make it through the minefields; and crashed through the barb-wire on the West German side. The new immigrant dove out of the still speeding car and was rounded up by the US Army. The immigrant only suffered some scratches from bailing out of the car.
So much for "Iron Curtains" and sealed borders!
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agua - It is not that we take it to heart, but that Head of Homeland Security - who should know better -perpetuates the myth. She speaks, people listen. What is your opinion of her? If it was not a smoke screen, it was denying the truth. Take your pick. When they identified the people involved (yet to be established in my mind!) I prayed to god they had not come through Canada! Someone/thing must be up there because my prayer was answered!!
detroit - Without checking, I would say the majority of our private schools are not faith based. My sons went to a secular private school (probably the best school in the world, in my opinion! I kid you not!). I am on the Board and attended a meeting last night where my view was reinforced.
bere - Sounds that way, doesn't it? When it goes up make sure you are on this side of it! Run for the border!
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217, happy -
It's not a religious school, or at least it's not affiliated with any religion. It's just that they have what they call "chapel" every morning. I think at one time it was loosely connected with the Congregational Church. Every morning you see hundreds of backpacks piled in front of the chapel. I've always wondered what they do when it's raining or snowing.
It's cheaper for the school district to pay to send the kids there instead of building a high school.
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A couple of years ago, John Negroponte was the commencement speaker at the Academy because his son was graduating (a boarder full-tuition student - they love those!) and we had a grand protest here, local cops and state troopers all over the place, nasty letters pro and con in the newspaper. It was all very exciting for our tiny town. But impossible to drive down Main Street on graduation day.
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To# 218 Our Shaman:
Good story!
Desperate people will always find a way. When governor, Janet Napolitano remarked that it was somewhat useless to build a 20 foot wall on the Mexican border because people would just find 22 foot ladders!
On a lighter note:
I am feeling the energy of the earth goddess this day!
Just after sunrise, we planted some apricot trees to honor Earth Day.
I blessed them to grow strong and 'fruitful.' Planting and growing things raises the spirits and nurtures the soul!
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timewaits, janet doesn't blame you after all - sort of. But she may get told to change her mind again, of course.
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Ref 219 timewaitsfornoman
It will be fun to watch Homeland "Security" building a wall down the middle of the Great Lakes. My father likes to tell stories of watching the rum-runners speeding back and forth across Lake St. Clair when he was a lad. He espcially liked to sit on the shore at night to watch the "fireworks" as Revenuers and rum-runners exchanged automatic rifle fire with tracer rounds arcing back and forth.
The Department of Homeland Security is little more than smoke and mirrors to give the impression that our borders can be sealed.
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211 aquarizonagal:
I hope those in the kitchen don't take my strictures elsewhere personally.
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Homeland security - I'm surprised she didn't say she, "misspoke." I don't think I had ever heard that word before the O.J. trial. During it, all and sundry were misspeaking all over the place!
seanspa - of course.
detroit - They will probably try to build it on our side! At least with the borders they are not suggesting it be sealed with duct tape. I'm sorry, but that had to rank up there as one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard. The next - they ran out of tape!
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To#225 Britishish (I must find a less formal name: 'Truth Speaker' do you like that? Or perhaps 'He who speaks for Squirrels?'
Sorry, I am being silly.
I took nothing you said personally but I do feel some intrinsic guilt that myself and other members of my family let ourselves be intimidated into not speaking out more against injustice, tyranny and a total corruption of our constitution.
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british-ish - I agree with your # 83 on the other thread. Many/most (?) Canadians were astounded. We were subjected to the same treatment due to our reluctance regarding Iraq, but as it is not our country or government, it only served to strengthen our resolve.
Charlie Chaplin?
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To#226 'Timely One'
Why not duct or as some say 'duck' tape?
My dear one declares that "no job is really done until the duct tape goes on!" He loves the 'Red Green show.' I believe this program originates in Canada.
We here in the extreme South are not total Philistines. Some of us do appreciate our Northern compatriots and would not 'wall them in.'
Oh! Is that walling ourselves in? Double stupid of me to not realize we are all one and need to live together or die alone!
Tear down that wall!
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229 aqua - I think your second suggestion is the correct one.
And yes, Red Green is a Canadian show. It's a bit ridiculous but am glad your husband enjoys it. "Spare the duct tape, spoil the job." We have a great sense of humour up here.
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To our good "Truth Speaker" (Britishish)
For your post#83:
Cheers! Cheers! Cheers!
Please keep holding our collective feet to the fire and set the oven for roast! My we never allow these things to happen again.
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aqua -
There is a group of senior (very senior) citizens here who call themselves "Women in Black" (I think this might be a national group) and they have been standing in front of the post office with protest signs every Friday at noon since this country attacked Afghanistan (and maybe before but that's the first I knew about it). For a long time, people would holler and make rude gestures as they drove by. I guess those were the "patriots." I don't think anyone is treating them rudely anymore.
I must confess that I never joined them (non-senior citizens are allowed) because I just felt that standing with a sign in front of the post office would never save a single life. I admire them for their stamina and dedication, but I don't think those of us who do not stand around with signs are hiding our heads in the sand. Maybe I'm just rationalizing.
David Dellinger, one of the Chicago 8, and his wife used to be among them. They lived here for years.
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timewaits -
I just read an article on CBC about the old man who died in the private clinic in Quebec and was left in the waiting room and how the staff refused to perform CPR. How much do you want to bet that eventually that story will be morphed, in this country, into a tale of the horrors of "socialized" medicine? No one will mention that it was a private clinic.
Its not making a splash here when it first happened is probably because we didn't have our "socialist" president then.
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232. At 00:07am on 23 Apr 2009, bere54 wrote:
There is a group of senior (very senior) citizens here who call themselves "Women in Black" (I think this might be a national group) and they have been standing in front of the post office with protest signs every Friday at noon since this country attacked Afghanistan
Good for them. But why the post office? Seems an odd choice to me for a demo, but perhaps it's one of those cultural differences. . .
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Ref 233 bere54
Maybe it won't hit the news in the USA right now. Here is an off-setting story from a hospital in Minnesota.
We'll probably see it when nationalized medicine becomes the focus once again.
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234, british -
I think the reason they do it at the post office is because it's the only federal government building we have here. It is also a fairly visible place at a T intersection, but mainly it's because they're protesting the actions of the federal government, or at least that's what someone told me.
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235, publius -
"The Health Department found no evidence the hospital did anything wrong." Well, duh, no, but the doctor sure did!
I'm sure you've heard the joke about what do you call someone who graduates at the bottom of their class in medical school - "Doctor." Not so funny, though, is it? But who am I to criticize? I have no idea what an appendix looks like. Maybe it's a dead ringer for a piece of fatty tissue.
The article doesn't say who paid for the extra time the poor patient had to spend in the hospital. Bet it's not the confused doctor. The insurance probably won't cover the first surgery -- they'll claim it was not medically necessary to remove the fatty tissue.
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Too many times I have seen the doctor's office charge the insurance company, then bill the patient a year later. So it wouldn't surprise me if the doctor charges four times for this one.
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bere
I read the story, it all sounds very odd. I think we need more details. The first thing that came to mind; he should have been in a hospital emergency room not a clinic. Clinics (private or public) are where one goes to get a referral, prescription, told you are fine, that kind of thing, not if you are injured or think you are seriously ill. They generally do not have the facilities, nor expect to deal with anything major and would send the patient to a hospital.
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It was all an attempt to gain cheap popularity. This is what he cares about. This is how Hitler came to power. He wows the world with his charms and flowery statements and when he brings some kind of extreme measure in people will accept it - without thinking. While in the USA people just accept everything he says because they do not want to be accused of racism or they want to see a black president 'succeed'. It happens a lot in many places of work in USA - blackpeople get away with murder because anyone who raises objections to the way they do things or their work ethics are accused of racism. At the end of the day Obama is selling USA and basic rights of people piece by piece and its happening right under our noses
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While we're on the topic of post offices and medical problems, I'll just relate what happened to a woman I know the other day. She walked into the post office, saw a sign that said "Wet Floor," tried to walk carefully but slipped anyway (she's elderly). She lay on the floor, unable to get up, and the postal clerk just stood behind his counter, humming and gazing at her. When she asked for help, he just pointed and said, "There's a sign."
So because there was a warning sign this guy feels no responsibility to help an elderly lady off the floor!
Another customer came in, was horrified, helped her up, and berated the clerk, who was still apparently unconcerned.
This woman, who is bruised and has a sprained arm, has asked for nothing more than an apology from the clerk. The postmaster has asked him to apologize. He refuses. He says he has nothing to apologize for. There was a sign, after all.
It was his cheerfully humming away while she lay there that has really infuriated her most of all.
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Oh dear. Who let that guy in the kitchen? Sounds like a typical racist to me. And he's right. When people make racist remarks, we call them racist. I think they don't like that.
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Timewaitsfornoman
Sorry about your Habs.
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Women in Black, I found, is an international organization; For Justice - Against War. I see they also gather once a month in downtown Montreal. Guess I haven't been near Phillips Square on a second Thursday from 5 - 6 pm. recently.
Had to check the topic to see what the above was going on about. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but this presumes the world is composed of naive, not very bright people. As for the rest, well I'm not touching it! Makes me wonder why my post was removed when something like that gets through.
Your 241 is a terrible story. Do we attribute this to the fact he is unionized and helping fallen customers is not part of his job description?
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243 Detroit - Thanks, the upside is that I won't be subjected to so much hockey. Not as much fun when they're losing! I prefer winning games. Amazing our season is over and it's still April! I'll keep my eye on the Wings.
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timewaits -
I didn't realize it was an international organization; perhaps if they are doing this all over the world people will take notice.
As for the postal clerk, he is a federal government employee and it is almost impossible to fire them for any reason whatsoever, so it possibly doesn't matter what is in his job description. I hear that postal employees steal valuable things from packages (perhaps they thought my package was full of DVDs or other sought-after media and the p.o. doesn't want to admit it was broken into) with impunity. This man knows nothing will happen to him. But I am so disgusted that I don't even want to go in there anymore. Perhaps a shaming letter-writing campaign to the newspaper is in order. It is a small town after all.
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Ref 241 bere54
I imagine "feedback" the postal employee will receive from the customers in the community for his heartlessness might help him learn humanity.
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Detroit - What are your plans re: Wyoming? If I may ask?
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bere - The fallen customer should write a letter of complaint. I presume it will go on his record. And everyone should complain to the Postmaster. Letters to the Editor would also be a good idea. My mother asked a woman out west something (I can't remember what) about her post office and the woman replied, "Oh no, our postal service is terrible, isn't yours?" Which was very amusing as both are part of Canada Post and my mother was very happy with "her" post office.
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The "fallen woman" (sorry, I couldn't resist that) is sure to have written a letter of complaint already; she is not the type to allow ill behavior to go unreprimanded. I wish you could see her: svelte, beautifully brushed-back silver coiffure, scarves wafting around her, interesting jewelry, ankle-length black cashmere coat, very proper. I suspect somehow or other she will make him pay!
I too am interested in hearing about the Wyoming plans.
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timewaitsfornoman
You may ask, and I am happy to answer.
I'm looking at Cheyene as a place to settle. It seemed like a nice town within easy reach of Denver (when I need an urban setting and culture), lots of mountains to climb, trails to hike, rivers to kayak and canoe.
I'll find a job that is interesting, just because I like working to earn a wage (have been earning wages since I was six). I could easily see myself in Jackson or Sheridan being the caretaker of someones estate. That could prove interesting. There are some opportunities at the National Parks that will be available to my varied background and experience.
My main focus will be on photography and writing. I was making a good living from free-lance photography when I met P. Specialized in outdoor photography that had me on the road. I went back to the telephone company. Between work, renovating a house, raising SonnyA, and the war; photography fell to the wayside. I've gone over to digital photography and am still learning how to get what I want out of my camera.
I know every nook and cranny of Michigan (and a good part of Ontario from James Bay to Niagara Falls). It's time for a change. I'm trading my beloved Great Lakes for the Rocky Mountains.
I'll probably be back out to Wyoming in August when SonnyA starts at Central Wyoming College. I'll be able to do some more looking around while there. The plan is to move out to Wyoming about this time next year.
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Ref 246 bere54 and timewaitsfornoman
I've have a couple of friends who work for the US Postal Service, and I worked next to a large, suburban post office where I'd go daily to get breakfast and lunch from a catering truck where I had opportunity to mingle with the workers (on their breaks) while awaiting arrival of the truck.
There is a reason the phrase "going postal" is used to describe asocial, even psycotic, behavior. Employees are treated like machines, at best. I know too many outlandish stories I've heard over the years of terrible, inhuman treatment employees receive daily from supervisors.
Several times, post office supervisors would find me lingering in conversation with the owner of the catering truck. Her daughter lives in Montana. We talked about the mountains and the outdoors. These supervisors mistook me for one of their employees and would start berating me for "wasting company time". They were horrible, little trolls.
I would smile. Offer that they should "seek quality time on a comfortable couch with a trained professional"; and return to my conversation. The trolls would go into fits until I showed them my telephone company ID badge. They would stomp off shouting and screaming at the first person they saw on the loading docks to vent their ire.
Perhaps this is why the postal clerk acted in the way he did.
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Detroit -
I'm an advocate of change, but all I seem to do is change houses and locations within the Montreal area! Have yet to find a place I would rather live. Our summer community "opens" next Friday so, soon after we will move to our 3/4 finished summer home. That is the biggest move that is in my future at the moment.
Wyoming seems like such a change from the Great Lakes, but perhaps that is what you are looking for. Would you be considering this if your son was not at school out there? My two sons (plus sisters, nieces, nephew) live in Montreal so I can not picture myself moving too far away from them. My niece was here tonight with her two children ages 5 and 1 1/2 and I would hate for them not to know me. I look forward to them spending lots of time at our summer place. One of the main reasons we had it rebuilt.
As I said, change is good, exciting and something to look forward to. Another thing I believe in - if you don't like it you can always move back!
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252 Detroit - I don't know, maybe things like that happen here, but I don't see it. I believe being a Canada Post employee is a pretty good job. Good benefits, working conditions, etc. I have often wondered why they are always going into post offices to shoot people in the US, perhaps that answers it. It seems to me that everyone here tries to get along. Poor behaviour is seriously frowned upon!
I must abed - a demain!
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Ref 253 timewaitsfornoman
My plan for the past two years leading to retirement has been to move to either Montana, Wyoming, or Wisconsin. SonnyA was planning on moving to Kentucky until he found the NOLS outdoor leadership program. That led him to CWC where he can expand on his training from NOLS and continue his education. He's going into evironmental science.
I made my decision to move to Wyoming during our trip this spring. I fell in love with the state. I will admit being close to my son was an important influence, but not the deciding factor.
And I agree with you. If I find it is not the right place, I can move again. It's only a path to the destination.
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242. At 02:52am on 23 Apr 2009, bere54 wrote:
Oh dear. Who let that guy in the kitchen?
He's one of those who simply wants to spread his 'message' but never reads what anyone else writes. (As long as we don't refer to his post directly, he'll go away I imagine.)
I fell in the local supermarket a few weeks ago. (Lame, you see, accidentally put all my weight--not that that's very much!--on the dodgy leg reaching for some milk. Pleased (but very embarrassed) to report that two supermarket staff and about four shoppers rushed to retrieve my crutch and help me up.
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255 detroit - Environmental science, what a good choice. Jobs should be plentiful in that field. I have often wondered, when thinking of a move to a new State, do you take into consideration State laws? As you know most of our "major" laws are Federal so is not something we need think about.
256 british - Good new, bad news, as they say. The words you use to describe your physical state are not ones we have heard or spoken in years. You see, I'm not using them! I am wondering, is their use still common in the UK or rather that you refer to your condition as you see fit (sorry for the pun!). An example: "My aunt was born with a physical handicap/affliction." Which is true and how I describe her.
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Brit,
Do you take sugar?
;-)
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256, british -
If you fell in the supermarket here, you would quite likely find yourself having to use your crutch to fend off scores of zealous people rushing to your aid (and if it was a Tuesday, most of them would be elderly people with their own canes and walkers -- double-stamp day for seniors!) This would be the case anywhere you might fall here, even at the post office if there happened to be anyone there besides the clerk. His lack of concern is considered so outrageous here that I won't be surprised to see an editorial about it in the local paper.
publius -
I wonder if the supervisors in the PO here are as you describe. That would explain why they can't seem to hire or retain people who can actually read addresses and get the right mail in the right boxes. The smaller village post offices are gems, though. And a few mailmen here (the older ones) are the sort you hope never retire because they get you your mail no matter how it is addressed.
Wyoming sounds idyllic. I drove through there once but all I remember to distinguish it from other states out there that I drove right through was an incredible summer hail storm that came out of nowhere on a highway in the middle of nowhere. Had to pull off the road. It was awesome.
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Ref 257 timewaitsfornoman
Laws and taxes were also significant factors. Michigan has too many of both. For an example of laws: the way the law is written in Michigan; it is actually illegal to carry even so much as a small pocket knife. The definition is so vague that even the nail file on an ordinary nail clipper can be considered a knife (a concealed weapon), if a law enforcement agency needed an excuse to hold a person for investigation it is possible for them to enforce that law.
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I feel a change comin' on....
From the Master
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Ref 259 bere54
Something that took me by complete surprise was the numbers of large, outdoor sculptures I saw everywhere. Driving from Cheyene to Casper there were sculptures along the highway, set out on the plains; or silhuoettes of bison, prong-horn sheep, horse and rider, etc., placed atop a jutting rock against the sky that would fool you, from a distance, into thinking they were real. Even small towns had outdoor sculptures.
The art department at CWC displayed excellent artwork on the walls. The small campus was dotted with excellent sculptures everywhere with the Wind River Range as background.
I did not expect to see this. It was marvelous! Spoke volumes about the people of the state.
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260 detroit - Laws and taxes! Laws; have no problem with them here, Quebec is a very liberal Province. Taxes on the other hand; I believe we are the highest taxed in North America. Such a claim to fame! But again comes down to my family. Perhaps if we all agreed to mass migrate somewhere, but I don't see that happening.
261 Heloise - Good song. I don't particularly like Bob Dylan, not his songs just the way he sings them, but that one was enjoyable. Thanks. Reading some of the other threads, I don't feel the change....yet! I'd say there is a long way to go.
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publius, good luck with Wyoming. I hope to make it that way some time soon on the way to visiting my sister in Denver. I'm sure you are aware that Wyoming is adjacent to Idaho. Cheyenne is a mere 967 miles away from Hayden.
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Greatings from Vancouver.
A a virtual postcard for ya'll.
Photos are from last trip in March. Looking for bloody cable to upload new shots!
Yours,
Pinko
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264 seanspa - "a mere 967 miles" !! Well, I guess if one goes 1,000/mph it doesn't take long! What is the length of the UK?
"I'll be in Scotland afore ye," plus had dinner and be abed.
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publius -
I don't remember seeing any outdoor sculptures, and I'm sure I would remember something like if I had seen it. My last trip through there was, let's see . . . summer of '98. Maybe they weren't there then, at least not in the bit I drove through on my way from Portland, OR, to Denver (avoiding Utah because the one drive through there the summer before was quite enough).
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Ref 261 Hesiodos
I agree with timewaitsfornoman, good song. Never liked listening to Dylan singing his own songs when I was younger, but I played and sang a lot of them.
Ref 261 timewaitsfornoman
Change, especially social change takes time. I remember stopping into a tavern for lunch in my small town back in '72 with a black friend. The owner, who I knew and loved from a child, refused to serve my friend. I reminded her of the Civil Rights Act. She served him, then told me on the way out never to come back again. Some John Birchers followed us from the tavern to start serious trouble. I reminded them that I had kicked their butts before, and would be happy to show them how once again. They went back into the bar; we left town.
My youngest nephew graduated from my small town high school last year. I was pleased to see children of those Birchers come to the open-house party with their black friends.
...And the times they are a changin'...":-)
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chrono - Are you in Vancouver now? If so, good thing I didn't go to Chelsea! Come to our place, we are awash in cables, although never the right one! But perhaps we have what you are looking for. What does it like? Don't bother giving me the name, just describe it.
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265, chrono -
Been bouncing back and forth between the newest torture thread and the newest Catholic thread, so it's a relief, and so soothing, to come back here and enjoy your lovely photos.
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Ref 264 seanspa
I know! That's just up the road a piece. I've yet to get to Idaho. I'll drop you a line before I make that trip. The scooter is just a-waiting to get into those Rockies.
timewaitsfornoman
Distances evaporate in the vastness of the west. Everything is a long ways away, yet seems close at hand. That's one of the trade-offs I get for leaving my Great Lakes. Instead of the surreal pleasure of sailing beyond site of land, I'm going to a place where the land jumps up in the sky and stands on its toes.
bere
I'm sure you would have remembered, too. Not something you would miss. Many of them were massive. They must be a new addition. I did not see as many along I-80 between Rawlins and Cheyene, but there were dozens along side I-25 between Cheyene and Casper.
Pinko
Thanks for the post cards. Beautiful.
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timewaits, a trip from my old home town of ayesbury to, say, stranraer is a massive 375 miles. I used to think that was a long way. If you're there for dinner, I might make it for breakfast.
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268 detroit - The make-up of our population is different and I'm sure there is still covert bias and discrimination, but... for us so much changed in 1976 with the election of the PQ government. Leading up to it most (not all) discrimination was directed at the Francophones. It changed overnight. That was more than 30 years ago. I recall Condolezza Rice saying when she was appointed National Security Advisor(?), "....only 140 years after the abolition of slavery..." I think most of the world thought, as I did, "Only!" But, my comment was directed at views on abortion, torture, etc. Only a little racism thrown in.
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272 seanspa - what do you like to eat? I'll try to have it ready. Nothing fancy now...
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Noman (266),
Land's End to John o' Groats (abbreviated LEJOG or LE-JOG) is the traversal of the whole length of the island of Great Britain between two extremities; in the southwest and northeast. The distance by road is 874 miles (1,407 km) and takes most cyclists ten to fourteen days; the record for running the route is nine days. Off-road walkers typically walk 1,200 miles (1,900 km) and take two or three months for the expedition. Two much-photographed signposts indicate the distance at each end. (Wiki)
;-)
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Pinko,
Thanks for the pictures. I'll check in when you've found the cable, but it'll probably be a good idea to remind us...
If your machine's got a usb input, you can get a cheap thingy that'll take your camera's card and plug it straight in...
I'vee got a snake's nest of cables, too. Who hasn't?
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Heloise - Thanks. I have a picture of my parents at Land's End with the signpost reading Benidoleig, their village in Spain. Don't think I have a John o' Groats one. So... detroit will be farther away from seanspa than the diagonal length of G.B. but considered "close." Such are North American distances.
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Greetings to all! I am late to breakfast this day.
Question: How did we get vermin in the kitchen and such a nasty species?
To#265 Chronophobe (Our good 'Pinko')
Beautiful postcards! I love the coast and have spent many happy hours roaming beaches. I have never been to Vancouver. I have been to Red Rock canyon but not in summer, too hot even for me!
On the subject of post offices:
We pick up our mail about once a week unless we are expecting something important. The wonderful lady who runs our office has more than once stopped by us on her way home to deliver a package or letters that she thought might be important. She tells me that "It was not out of my way home." She fibs because we are out of everyone's way home except our own. I know she does this for others, as well. Perhaps, she makes up for other postal workers who are not so kind.
On the issue of falls:
Good 'Truth Speaker:'
I am so happy you were not seriously hurt and that there were good people there to help you. Any fall taken in a public place is more difficult because people do stare and some rush to help which is, I suppose, better that what happened to that poor woman in the post office. However, one does have such a feeling of incompetence and helplessness.
Several months ago, I fell from a ladder and cracked a bone in my foot. At the hospital, I was lectured as if I were a child, about what I should and should not be doing at my age. Like a child, I refused to talk or answer questions, I was so angry. They thought I was addled and wanted to keep me over night. My dear one told them that I was just very angry and that they really did not want to hear what I might say!
So they put this nasty 'boot' on my foot and sent me home with orders about what I was to do and not do. I ignored most of it!
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Nah! It's even further to Detroit.
;-)
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242 lol bere yes it does doesn't it.
following the health debate here has been good. interesting and how the hell did he miss the appendix. I'm not sure but I suspect if it were being removed it was because it was inflamed . Red looking and not like a fatty bit (sorta yellow).
Been putting up a fence. to keep rabid dogs out for the last couple of days.
245 Time do the Canadian people have to take the right sort of test. or is it smokey behind the offices;?
but 244 lol no it was not the union but the lack of balance in the employees life.
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255 see you in Eugene eventually. lol
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Re: racism and times-a-changin' I pose a question:
As my 14-year-old daughter and I set out on the cross-country trip from Virginia in '98, the radio in our old van ceased working as we drove into West Virginia. Since you can't do a road trip without a radio, we wandered around Beckley until someone directed us to a garage with an old man expert in car radios. This old guy used some odd bits and pieces and wires and got the radio working, refused any payment, and as we were leaving advised us to go to a "real" radio repair place when we could because what he had done was a "------ job," placidly using an ugly racial epithet. I hurried my outraged daughter into the van before she could say anything, drove off, and then tried to explain to her that I did not feel it was right to castigate the old man after he had been so kind and helpful to us, that he had grown up in a different time and probably had no idea that what he'd said was so offensive. She was not satisfied and still felt I should have let him have it. I've sometimes wondered if she was right.
Opinions, please?
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Ref 281 happylaze
Yeah! That's pretty much all down hill from Idaho. lol
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bere54 (#282), the old man was wrong; you were right. Your duty is to educate your daughter, not strangers. Had the circumstances been slightly different, you might have upbraided him.
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280 happy - By checking for things you ask I am learning lots. I found this: "The Canadian Human Rights Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability and perceived disability. Disability includes those with a previous or existing dependence on alcohol or a drug. Perceived disability may include an employers perception that a persons use of alcohol or drugs makes him or her unfit to work."
As it is a pdf go to: [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
Read more for details. I presume that is what you are talking about. You will have to swallow your pride and consider yourself "disabled"!!
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To our good Timely One:
You asked my opinion of Janet Napolitano which is a good question. I will try to answer. She was a good governor for this state. She did major things to help education, children and the environment. She did her best to keep border issues from getting out of control and managed a budget surplus. All of this, our Republican controlled State Legislature fought against at every turn. I met her once at a farmers market. I liked her but that does not really mean anything.
Do I think that she lied, put up a smoke screen regarding the Canadian border? Yes. All politicians lie. I believe that to be a fact of politics. Does this make her morally corrupt. I do not believe so. Can I understand why this particular idea is perpetuated? Yes. The Southern border is a war zone.
I might be castigated by some for writing that but this day Chris Simcox has declared he will run against McCain for Senate next year. Simcox founded Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, a vigilante group that tries to police the border. It was kept under some control by our previous governor. This man will not beat McCain but then I thought that the baby Bush would not be elected President. So, enjoy my bread but please take my opinions with one grain of salt.
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Bere,
No point. You'd be wasting your breath and doing yourself more hurt than him any good. He also didn't mean anything really worse than somebody saying it was a "cack-handed" job... Old habits sometimes just have to die with their hosts....
I can see the offence, but it doesn't pay to follow it up.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace
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282 bere - I agree with Gary. Had he been a younger person perhaps. Even without him doing you a favour, you would have taught your daughter it is acceptable to lecture elderly strangers. All you might have accomplished was to teach him not to be so helpful in the future. Especially to those from Virginia. It would have startled me though!
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To Bere
I also agree with not castigating an old man for the habits of a life time. You can accept his kindness and reject his prejudicial words and use that moment to teach your child when it is most appropriate to stand up and fight for what you believe and when not. One of my grandson-in-laws has a saying: "A wise person knows when it is best to fight the lion and also when it is best to back away."
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aqua - Thanks for the input. I heard her interviewed a while ago and was impressed. That is why I was surprised by her latest statement. She did not come across as someone who would be so poorly informed. If that is not the case why say it? The surprising thing was that she was being interviewed for Canadian TV, so I do not understand why she thought we would believe it! It only served to lower our opinion of her, which is unfortunate.
Sounds like you will be in for a nasty election.
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280 happy - My # 285 was a response to your question. Do not know if it will ever see the light of day, nor how to pass on the information to you. I googled "drug testing Canadian jobs" and the first up was a pdf from the Canadian Human Rights Commission. Briefly from what I read; people with alcohol or drug dependence or perceived to have, may not be discriminated against. Therefore no need to test to find out except in certain work related circumstances (I would be surprised to hear welding is one of them!). They say it much better than I.
I did not link to the pdf but did include it for you to copy and paste.
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To#290 Timely One
Most all of our elections here can turn nasty. In my very humble and biased opinion, entrenched racism and conservatism can make living here very difficult at times but I always work and hope for better.
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To all:
Thank you so much for your thoughtful reactions to my question. This incident has come up a couple of times with my daughter in the intervening years, and I have not backed away (out loud, anyway) from my initial action in the matter. I think now that she is a young woman, she has become wiser about dealing with lions, as aqua's grandson-in-law so eloquently expresses it. And I don't think she has ever lectured an elderly stranger (or an elderly relative either, when her grandmother once made an upsetting ignorant comment - not racist, though).
timewaits, et al -
I read the transcript of that Canadian TV interview with Napolitano and was rather taken aback. I had thought better of her. Will she come out and say she "misspoke," do you think?
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257. At 1:31pm on 23 Apr 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:
256 british - Good new, bad news, as they say. The words you use to describe your physical state are not ones we have heard or spoken in years. You see, I'm not using them! I am wondering, is their use still common in the UK or rather that you refer to your condition as you see fit (sorry for the pun!)
Actually it's supposed to be 'disabled' and I'm 'a person with a disability'. You're not supposed to use the c-word, but I am, so I can, if you see what I mean. You mean people over there don't use 'lame'? We never use 'handicapped'. I think it fell out of the vocabulary after Thalidomide, since it would obviously have been a bit tactless. (I hate hearing and seeing the word in France; always makes me wince.
258. At 2:49pm on 23 Apr 2009, Hesiodos wrote:
Brit,
Do you take sugar? ;-)
You'd have to ask whoever's pushing my wheelchair when I use it. :-D
(Not that I can ever get any of my friends to actually push the thing anyway. I keep pointing out that since they get into a lot of galleries and museums for half-price or free if I use it, the least they could do in return is give me a shove and give my wrists a rest, but it's amazing how many are afflicted with their own disability at that point: deafness.)
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293 bere - If you saw, I said in an earlier post I do not believe I had ever heard the word "misspoke" until the O.J. trial and, as I said witnesses were "misspeaking" all over the place! What a lot of "misspoken" people live in L.A.! Would it be considered a euphemism?
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To Bere and our Timely One:
I am still puzzling out those comments of Janet's and trying to figure out just what the agenda is. She has always seemed to be a straight talker as politicians go, not that she has not flubbed but this seems too much. I am still thinking that it may have been a deliberate attempt to take some pressure off the Southern border. Stupid really because the nuts here are always ready to shoot first and bury the bodies!
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295, timewaits -
I've always assumed "misspoke" was a euphemism for "I said something really really stupid." Kind of like "mistakes were made," which means "Somebody did something really really stupid but I deny it was me."
And as for Napolitano's interview, she also tried to justify Maher Arar's continued presence on the U.S. "no fly" list, which I had thought was due to the Bush administration's refusal to admit a mistake but is now defended by the new administration by way of Napolitano. What's with that, I wonder?
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294 - british - I do see what you mean. Handicapped or disabled are the words we use. Lame is considered derogatory, unless used as a "lame excuse"! A horse may be lame or perhaps if it is a temporary condition, such as a sprained ankle. I generally say my aunt was born with an affliction, otherwise it leads to, "what happened to her?" I don't mind answering but even I am not sure, "what happened to her." There are very few Thalidomide victims (if I may use that word) in Canada, so is not something that springs to mind.
Should I come to London I would be happy to push you anywhere you like (within reason!) even if museums are not on the agenda.
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Here's an amusing discussion of the origins of the word "misspoke": http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2008/04/21/080421taco_talk_hertzberg
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aqua & bere - I thought the comments were strange which is why I brought them up. An apparently intelligent, informed women quoting such nonsense, why? You people must be so busy down there, seconding guessing your politicians!
"Shoot first and bury the bodies" Oh dear I find that funny, although I'm sure you don't!
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British-ish
Is it still considered a pub crawl if you're rolling in a wheelchair?;-)
I'm up for that!
Fish and chips, anyone?
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Oooooh, fish and chips! My favorite food group! Better than chocolate.
timewaits, I am surprised that you keep getting referred. What sort of naughty stuff are you trying to pull here? I mean, we know blameless posts are never referred. Right?
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I love fish and chips! The best we ever ate was from a little shack on the beach at Port Elizabeth, South Africa. It was a real treat after weeks of 'bush' food.
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299, Gary -
Interesting and entertaining article. It's good to have that sorted out. Thanks!
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296/297 aqua & bere
# 300 Apparently I am not permitted to comment on this topic. I do not recall exactly what I wrote but did consider it innocuous. You will have to discuss it amongst yourselves!
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On my return to the UK in the summer my to do list comprises of
1. Drink Real Ale
2. Eat Fish & Chips
3. Drink Guinness
4. Eat Curry
If I can do these every day we are there - I can change around the order to introduce variety - I will be a very happy (and rather chubby) man.
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299 Gary_A_Hill - Thanks. I see from the article, "This use of misspeak is of American origin." I guess that is why I was not familiar with it. Perhaps we "speak mistakenly" (after checking the dictionary) in Canada. Although I just say, "I made a mistake."
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Cher Timely One:
Did you use words from any foreign language? Did you perhaps say that all politicians were lying scum?
Just a test to see if I am censored, as you were.
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seanspa - I don't mean to make you jealous but give me a couple of hours and I am sure I can rustle you up all four. We have Kilkenny Irish Cream Ale (brewed in Ireland) in the fridge, does that count?
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Now I have myself hung up on fish and chips.
There's a place up in Tobermory, Ontario that has great fish and chips. It will not be open until Victoria Day weekend and closes again after Labor Day weekend. But while it is open they pack them in.
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306, seanspa -
Do a lot of walking and carry a heavy pack. I ate fish and chips and drank Guinness almost every day for two weeks while in the UK, but walked for miles and miles every day carrying about a 25-30 lb pack and actually lost weight. The pack kept gaining weight due to my habit of buying books.
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Thanks for the advice. I am now walking to Montreal with a heavy pack on my back and will be there for breakfast curry and a kilkenny. I hope the fridge is full.
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To Timely One
My#308 was censored. It was a test. I guess we are both in the naughty corner so no more of that particular subject.
I am not particularly fond of beers but have had some that I liked, one is Guinness. Beer does go well with certain foods.
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Well, the Dissenting Voices thread has now taken the predictable turn into the unmentionable. I had noticed a small reference and hoped TT would not, but of course that was foolish of me.
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seanspa -
I looked up "kilkenny" and it wasn't in my Concise OED at all and Webster's just gives me a county in Ireland. So what is it when not capitalized and consumed at breakfast? Could it be a kind of beer? For breakfast? Well, why not?
aqua -
Were you talking about Napolitano? Is this a taboo subject now?
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313 aqua - Thanks, that is good to know. I was getting suspicious that it had to do with my nationality!! That's a scary thought.
seanspa - So I will expect you... when? Christmas? Sorry I do not know anything about breakfast curries, so we will have to go out for that. Call me when you cross the bridge onto the Island, only about 20 miles to go after that, and I will fill the fridge with an assortment.
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301. At 9:18pm on 23 Apr 2009, publiusdetroit wrote:
British-ish
Is it still considered a pub crawl if you're rolling in a wheelchair?;-)
Probably. Since that's how you'd get from pub No 11 to pub No 12 after falling out if it at pub No 10. I suppose. Why would you think I'd ever been on one?
(It's a strange thing, but people seem to think you're not supposed to have fun in them. One of my friends is still a bit upset with me after I nearly mowed down a bunch of tourists at the bottom of that long ramp in the Turbine Hall at Tate Modern a couple of years ago, but I don't think I want to go into that episode. But when the day comes I have to use one all the time I want one of those flashy racing ones. And I'll have it resprayed. Damned if I know why they always have to be black.)
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#310
Wasn't he a womble?
Curious Sam
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317, british -
How silly to think one shouldn't have fun in a wheelchair. Mowing down a pack of tourists sounds highly entertaining. You said "nearly." Home come you missed?
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Ref 317 british-ish
"Why would you think I'd ever been on one?"
I just thought it was a national sport:-)
I think I got to pub No 13 in a shopping basket once. I was informed I was no longer in a pub crawl. It didn't seem to matter to anyone by then.
Ref 318 SamTyler1969
No. I'm sure the fish weren't recycled:-)
Joe Six-pack, National Informer
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319 should have said "How come you missed?" What an embarrassing mistake. Forgot to preview.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
To#315 Bere
I think that subject may be closed for now.
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I just checked, and I've got 271 emails on file with the subject:
Your BBC Posting has been removed
is that a record? I'll bet it ain't.
;-)
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324, Hes -
Gosh, I've been deleting those emails so as not to have clutter. Now I'll never know the total, but I suspect I would never beat your record.
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321 bere - I did not notice until you mentioned it. I cringe every time I see one of my many mistakes. Then shrug and think, hope they understand what it is I'm trying to say!!
324 Heloise - Glad to see you are still with us after 271!! I unintentionally committed three offences today and was getting worried. See I have a long way to go!
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timewaitsfornoman
Sometimes a post will go through; sometimes not. Don't worry yourself about it. I try to follow the house rules and get nailed every now and again.
It's like being in court. One judge wants things one way; another judge wants things different. You just address your arguement in another way and see how if it works.
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detroit - thanks, but it was surprising as I did not think I had said anything controversial so did not know what crime I had committed. Have vowed to stay away from the topic I was trying to discuss. That should solve at least that problem in my life. Basically, ignore it and it goes away!
I was at a school play tonight. Anne Frank and Me. It was very good and thoroughly enjoyed it. A little bit too long between costume changes, my only complaint. seanspa is walking to Montreal now that he knows I have decent beer in the fridge. Perhaps if he plans on using the Ambassador Bridge and you can join him.
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We'll jump on the VIA. He'll be foot-sore by then. We'll stop off in TO to take a ride up the CN Tower if it's a clear day. Wave to us so we know where to go when we reach Montreal:-)
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detroit - foot sore is right! I was going to say I'll leave bread crumbs, but instead beer caps!!
Nite.
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Make that 272!
Thank you for contributing to a BBC Blog. Unfortunately we've had to remove your content below
Comments posted to BBC blogs will be removed if they are considered likely to provoke, attack or offend others; are racist, sexist, homophobic, sexually explicit, abusive or otherwise objectionable; are considered to have been posted with an intention to disrupt; contain swear words (including abbreviations or alternative spellings) or other language likely to offend.
...
If you can rewrite your contribution to remove the problem, we'd be happy for you to post it again.
...
Regards,
The BBC Blog Team
"
Posting [duly politically corrected]:
Love the New Yorker on misspeaking! Nobody does [challenged] humour better than [the challenged] ;-) (nor anti-[Hebrew] like [Hebrew speakers] etc.)
Brit, I'm sure you heard peter White's winning stand-up routine - great!
Noman (& all), to inform others about an "unsuitable" URL, simply leave off (or disguise) the leading (aitch)ttp, and the software won't mistake it for a "live" link...
Enjoy!
;-)
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Peter White
Well, I find it funny....
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331 Heloise - Thanks for the info, will do next time. It would be nice if they pointed out what "the problem" is. Difficult to repost when you don't know which part to "remove!" Not sure who they thought I was provoking, attacking or offending (presuming that was my crime).
Do Scots misspeak? Canadians don't, as far as I know. We "don't remember, made a mistake" or insist "I never said that!"
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Darling Noman,
- "Do Scots misspeak?"
Of course not. Never! Others may mis-hear us, though.The purest English on the planet is that spoken in Inverness (apparently). I had never heard the term until Hillary used it last year. I have since heard a reflexive form, "I mis-spoke myself," which conjures incontinent visions....
;-)
ed
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Heloise - What? you didn't watch the O.J. trial?!? I was spell-bound. Never saw anything like it in my life! Witnesses misspeaking here, there and everywhere and I'm thinking, does that not mean you lied? Turned out it was acceptable as long as it was called something else! I do like your "mis-hear" and, by the time someone has translated, "I mis-spoke myself" they will have forgotten the question.
I did not know that about Inverness. Is it understandable or have we moved so far from pure, we don't know what they are talking about?
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The willow tree outside my bedroom window is growing its green curtain. I always forget that the weeping willow is the exception to the "no leaves until the second week of May" rule. Very pleasant to glance out the window and see green branches. It is supposed to be in the high 60s(F) today, and tomorrow 80! Yesterday it was 45.
It is only safe to put away the winter clothing after the 4th of July, but then there's no point because one needs it again by the end of August.
Hey, what happened to the preview option?
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It was'nae me!
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bere - We are promised the same and, I still have preview.
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Heloise -
Would I blame you? All I will say is that after your 334 my preview option vanished and after your 337 it has magically reappeared. I think I now know who God is!
Do you think you could also magic my garbage to the dump? Please note that there is a bag of recycling too. I'll give you about half an hour and if it's not gone I guess I'll have to do it myself. But this will cause a severe crisis of faith.
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timewaits -
Were you on this thread between posts 334 and 337? Even if you were, you might not have noticed if you didn't scroll down to post a comment. I don't know much about computer stuff (find that hard to believe, do you?) but I do know it couldn't have been just on my computer!
I had my snow tires taken off yesterday, and it didn't snow today! Not only do I think this whole blog is about me (as someone kindly said on another thread) but I had thought the entire universe was about me (since the temperature plunges as soon as I take the flannels off the bed) and now I'm relieved to discover that it's not, that I will not cause blizzards by having the summer tires put on the car, and that the whole flannel/weather thing must be an amazing coincidence.
Heloise, your time is almost up and my garbage is still here.
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bere - Admit I did not notice, just know it was there when you mentioned it. Does seem unlikely it would be only your computer!
We still have our winter tires on for no other reason than we haven't had them taken off! We had the car checked in SC and the mechanic noted he doesn't often see winter tires!! When someone is about to kill a spider I'm..."no, no, I don't want rain."
Referring to the other thread: We have Hates Laws in Canada. It is a crime to use hate speech based on: colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation. Lots of brouhaha when it was introduced about freedom of speech, but since I don't plan on making any hate filled speeches about the above groups, I don't have a problem with it. People are not able to self govern themselves, as someone suggested, unfortunately.
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Well, I settled the argument about when the world will end on the second 'Catholic' thread so I hope that ends that!
Regarding laws against "hate speech:"
It is one thing to say whatever pops into one's head and quite another to use various forums to incite people to violence against each other. Some of the media are walking on a very narrow ledge in this respect. There are some blogs that require a shower and disinfectant after, if one is foolish enough to visit them.
I am very much for free speech but there must be civility in debate and respect for the views and feelings of others. Sometimes the PTBs can be irritating but can you imagine some of the bile that could be spewed if we did not have these good people?
We must have SOME rules to maintain a civilized society!
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Humph. I had to take the garbage to the dump myself. At least that's over with. I have lost my faith in Heloise.
aqua, I realize now that I should have waited until next Tuesday because if the world ends I will have just wasted time and energy going to the dump. I don't remember now - is it rain or no rain? Be a shame to get out of bed for no reason.
I think of hate speech laws as akin to speeding laws. Some people don't have the common sense to know where to draw the line and so for the good of all must have external controls. There oughta be a law requiring people (except perhaps me!) to be polite at all times. But if everyone else was polite all the time, I would never have any need not to be. I do think my rudeness is always reactive. And if not, I make sure to apologize.
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aqua -
I just re-read your end-of-the-world comment and see it's the second Tuesday of next week. What day does that fall on?
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342 aqua
"World will end" Yes, I noticed and good for you, was also amused by british and the leasing out of his flat.
I agree with your assessment regarding free speech. I do not believe our laws are needed very often (not that I am aware of) but they should make some people stop and pause before speaking - a good thing. Someone thinks a certain way, finds out it is a crime to voice such thoughts, will then perhaps/maybe/hopefully reconsider their ideas. And if they won't reconsider the upside is, we don't have to hear them! Would not your life be more pleasant under such rules? Nor are we allowed to carry around guns while thinking but not saying. I do not have a problem with that law either!
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aqua & bere - Two of my posts have been reinstated. #300 to you both, was the referred one that really surprised me.
happylaze - should you find yourself here after venting your spleen regarding the Catholic row, (some great comments, by the way) I responded to your question as best I could in #285 which has recently been reinstated with link removed. I described how I found it in # 291.
I really enjoyed your reaction to british calling you a Latin scholar!
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Timely One
Read your #300 and noticed my #308 was also restored!
I was only being sarcastic in mine to see if it would be censored. Perhaps all is forgiven and we are out of the naughty corner. I get so thrilled when I am censored that I almost feel disappointed.
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timewaits -
Your #300 seems harmless. Perhaps they thought you were advocating violence. Aqua's 308 has been returned also, and I simply cannot see what might have aroused suspicion. Perhaps it's mistaken clicking by mods. I'm always afraid I'm going to accidentally click on "complain about this comment" and get someone referred because I have a spastic pinky finger with a mind of its own. Fortunately, the pinky finger is on the wrong side of the hand for clicking so usually it just hits "return" when I have no intention of returning, or entering.
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317 Mr Brit. If you need one permanently we'll have to look at tricking one out for you .
Start thinking of the theme. You want spiky bits and built in Fog horns.?
Time thanks for looking. I was pretty sure canada had to show more sense on those topics.
The other threads are still crapy as can be. Racist rubbish etc.
And I'm still into the MATT idea. Never saw those two directly address each other before but now they do?
324 Ed I've just wiped about 9 months of rejections, lol.
That was on the jacksforge
I got rid of 2 months of happylaze and still have 147 left to rid myself of.lol.
MTTA keeps busy.
342 Aqua . I agree so much with "but there must be civility in debate and respect for the views and feelings of others" but I have problems . I am trying to and do confess my failings to myself regularly so feel absolved.;)
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Well, now I have been referred for merely referring to timewaits' and aqua's formerly-referred now-reinstated posts and speculating on why this might have happened. This is very odd.
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I wonder why bere's reference to deleted posts got deleted. Some patterns are ominous.
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seanspa -
It does seem most peculiar, especially considering some of the comments on that other thread that actually advocate gruesome torture and say very nasty things about other comments and none of those are deleted by the mods. Which is why I speculated in my deleted post that it might be an accident that timewaits' and aqua's (and now mine) posts were initially deleted.
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I have been out enjoying this fabulous sunshine and return to read of: referred for referring to referred!! Not only mysterious but very amusing! happy tell us our mistake is we don't swear enough or throwing around sufficent insults - those ones always get through.
aqua - enjoyed your "just testing" post.
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349 happy - Oh, I understand, now that you have uncovered MATT he realizes his error and is addressing himself. Very interesting.... and plausible.
And... you absolve yourself?! As in, "I really shouldn't have done that, now where was I?"
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To our 'Happy Coyote'
Your diatribes are a wonderful passionate out-pouring of your strong beliefs. You speak your truth with conviction and call out the hypocrites. It seems to me that you are mostly only rude to those who are also rude. Though, I would find it hard to just out right call someone a 'perverse idiot,' I am guilty of enjoying you do it sometimes. So we are both absolved.
I was going to say something in Latin but did not want to provoke anything.
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aqua -
I wonder if it is a generational thing or a matter of upbringing, but I do not find it the least bit difficult to call someone a "perverse idiot" if that is in fact what he/she is.
I have a friend who is unbearably (to me) polite (and not hypocritically so) to all sorts of people who ought not be treated politely. I keep telling her she needs to learn "reverse" people skills. She says she doesn't need to because she has me around to take care of "business." Unfortunately, when I'm not around she ends up agreeing to do things for incredibly rude and pushy people. She is of an older generation and was brought up to always "be a lady." Whereas when my mother was trying to teach me to be a lady, I was away up a tree somewhere and couldn't hear her.
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my dear Bere
I never let people walk all over me and "No, I could not possible do that," said with a smile works so well but you have to be firm. I also have no problem telling a person so, if I think I have been treated rudely. I just do not call names, at least to the person's face.
My Mother always said do not call someone a name that you would not like to be called. Women of my generation were taught: "be a lady." I am not sure I always qualified but I DID try, most of the time. Some women just never learned that lovely word 'NO.'
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What has come over me this day? I just made a response to someone on the new thread whom I usually try to ignore.
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aqua -
From your posts I never took you for someone who could not say "no" and yet do it very graciously. Good for you! I admire you for not name-calling but sometimes it's just plain fun! (When it's deserved - I do enjoy happylaze's use of that tactic.)
I'm afraid I have always indulged in a lot of name-calling while driving (a habit I picked up from my mother, who only called people rude names when they could not hear her). When my son was about 3 and strapped into his car seat, one day he asked earnestly (and without irony which of course 3-year-olds are incapable of), "How come is it, Mommy, that nobody 'cept you knows how to drive?"
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358, aqua -
I noticed that, and now he is going to call you rude names. Maybe you will be inspired to return in kind! Go, aquagal!
(But not if it violates your standards.)
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Dear Bere
He has ignored me and moved to attack someone else, I believe. Should I feel hurt, neglected, or grateful? I was tempted to defend Jimmie Carter but the 'M' person and I had a go around on that subject last Summer. I believe, Jimmie Carter walks with the angels and does not need me.
I once loved driving but there just got to be too many other drivers. Most of whom are names that the good PTBs would not allow me to use. I will admit to, at one time, using those names in the privacy of my own car. I found this counter productive to my own peace of mind so I have cultivated a Zen like process for driving, especially when I need to travel through cities. This works so well that my grandchild once asked me on a trip to Phoenix, "Nana, are you awake?"
From the mouths of our babes, blessed be!
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I have another moral question for the kitchen, brought to mind by Richard's #17 on the new thread.
When my son was six, he and I were in a big chain supermarket one evening. As we walked past the meat department, we both saw an old man, very poor-looking, tattered clothes, possibly homeless, slip a package of meat inside his ragged coat. As we walked away, my little boy whispered, "Mommy, that man is stealing! We have to tell the owner! Someone needs to call the police!"
I shushed him, said we were not going to do anything and I would explain later. So on the way home, there I was trying to explain my somewhat ambiguous and ambivalent moral standards to a young child to whom I definitely did not want to teach the wrong lesson.
First of all, I explained, it is wrong to steal and he must never do so. But it is not always wrong not to tell on someone else who is stealing, depending on why they are doing so. The man was very old and poor and sad; he probably needed that meat very badly, possibly to feed other people too. The store was owned by a huge conglomerate, which is to me somehow less egregious than stealing from a small mom-and-pop store, not that that in itself makes it okay. I would have felt like a criminal myself if I had ratted on that poor old man. I told S all this.
S was a precocious little thing and we had quite a thoughtful talk on that drive home and for several days afterward. He did not grow up to be a thief and he does not see things in terms of black and white but notices the nuances. And I still firmly believe I did the right thing.
But I'm wondering if am a kook. I will not be offended if anyone thinks so.
Opinions, please?
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Aqualass,
- "I believe, Jimmie Carter walks with the angels and does not need me."
Indeed!Complain about this comment
Ref 362 bere54
I will first note, never judge by appearences.
My father was going to trade school in Downtown Detroit after WWII. He parked his car in a lot where an old, poor, sad man collected the parking fee. The old man lived in an abandoned automobile on the lot; wore raggedy clothes.
Dad felt sorry for the old man and would bring him a sandwich every day. The old man died while Dad was still a patron. It turned out the old man owned the lot and was a multi-millionaire who chose to live as if he were destitude.
I asked my father if it upset him that he, as a poor student, was feeding a millionaire. He replied with a smile, "No. The old man was always kind to me. He yelled at everybody else. I did what I thought was right. Never regret a good deed done from the heart, son."
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Time 354 that is exactly how one absolves one self,, but if penance is due I generally tell my self to go smoke 10 bongs and say Boom Shanka.
oh and , could be.
That's all I'm saying. Not like I got a virtual pudding, but keep an eye on It.
lets just say that something fishy is in that trailer park.
355 Aqua
I'm glad some one noticed.
i really do try to be polite but fail to see the humour in condescending comments about others being childish etc. from people that think they say nothing hurtful.(OK not to me but others who I respect here have been hurt by some hurtful comments it seems.(well not hurt they just get pissed and don't bother. which can be a shame, if only the right people would get it))
I am in some respects like that coyote that you call me.
I bite when I see danger or food. not just for s and giggles.
which is what I see so often in them.matt people.
And I'm sorry I keep bringing it up on the other thread but JC Jimmy Carter is the only president in recent history worth saving.
The rest were ALL outrageous profiteers .
he does walk on water.
and I'll have to go see what the fuss is about.;)
Bere in some countries (maybe france still is but I'm not sure) taking a meal is not a crime.
stealing for profit is.
Easy moral dilemma in that country.
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To our very dear good Bere
YOU ARE NOT A KOOK!
The most difficult job we will ever have is raising our young. You were put in a most awkward moral and ethical position. I, for one, believe that you did all of the right things.
Please do not let that 'R' person entangle you in moral arguments that have no real connection to the issue of torture. This person is using "garbage in for garbage out."
I am open for debate here in the kitchen but not on that thread.
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Ref 362 Bere54
Never judge a person by appearance (Part II)
I was selling cars in the early '70s. A man drove in to our new and used car lot in an old, rusted, battered pick-up truck. He immediately went back to were we kept our $25 "rag cars". Cars that were running, but not much more.
The salesman that was "up" to serve a customer stood in the showroom just watching the man in dirty jeans and flannel shirt. I asked if he was going to go help the customer. He said he didn't need $5 (our commission) that bad to go out in the cold, and agreed to give me his "up".
The man was a foreman over a bunch of young miners from Kentucky who were coming to dig the Detroit Water Tunnel into Lake Huron. He bought the most expensive new car on our lot. He also brought in every one of his workers to buy a car from me. I made piles of money from that sale.
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Ref 362 bere54
You answered your own moral question. The proof: "...he does not see things in terms of black and white but notices the nuances. And I still firmly believe I did the right thing."
You did a good job of using the observation of what is considered a crime as a lesson to teach your child how to use judgement.
I think you did very well.
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publius -
That is an excellent story about your father, and I like his attitude. But it would have been nice of the old guy to leave your father all his money in return for the kindness shown!
It did occur to me much later to wonder if the old man had dressed himself in rags for the purpose of appearing pathetic while shoplifting, but somehow I don't think so. (Self-justification perhaps?)
Dear aqua -
I have come to believe that you are never wrong so if you say I am not a kook, I must believe it. And I will take your advice as to the other thread. That "R" person does not seem to be one of those in favor of torture for "the right reasons" so I'm not quite sure what he's trying to do other than perhaps force people to realize their own moral ambivalence. And I already know my morals are all over the place.
happy -
I do like the attitude that stealing to eat is not considered a crime in some countries. I thought the people in New Orleans who broke into stores to take food after Katrina were well within their rights. (But I draw the line at looting electronic equipment.)
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367, 368, publius -
You have a treasure chest of good stories. I myself am always apt to give more attention (and trust) to those who are not "dressed up." I spent too many years working for lawyers to automatically admire the guy in the $2000 suit.
As for answering my own question: I have often been told (by well-meaning people) that my ideas on certain things are weird or skewed. That I am in fact a kook. So I was wondering how others would see the situation. Perhaps you are all kooks too, despite what aqua says! My kids tell me I am not "normal," but they seem to think this is not a bad thing.
Thank you.
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Bere
I am sometimes wrong.
Just ask my family and they will tell you with dates and times of the day! They delight in finding me wrong because I am so often right. You have encouraged my ego to become totally over inflated!
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lol bere that is looting. Pub the UK is full of very very well to do people that look like country bumpkins.
not a mistake to be made.
Practical people often with big estates to maintain.
hair a mess and all ruffled looking , .
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aqua, happylaze -
All right, what is all this about the naked guy running by that you're meant to give a towel to? I don't want to expose (no pun intended, really) my ignorance by asking in front of all those other people on the other thread.
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Addendum to Bere
I think that you are allowing that 'R' person's tangled reasoning to conjure up personal moral issues that really do not apply on that thread or to you.
His original story was a corruption of one utilized in a test for young children, age ten or so, to measure the differences in moral judgment between boys and girls. Both groups agreed that stealing was wrong but did not agree about punishment. Boys were considered to have passed because they voted for punishment, while girls were deemed to have failed because they sought mercy due to the circumstances. This particular study was utilized in more than one way by feminists and others to show that criteria used for men could not be used for women.
I am not sure I have all this correctly because I read all the studies many years ago but 'R's' little play, in my opinion, has no relation to the universal repugnance that all decent people should have to torture.
If he hopes to use that old story as justification, I might have a lot more to say about that!
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If any of you are watching the Red Sox/Yankee game, look for my daughter in the stands. She bought tickets months ago for her boyfriend's birthday today. Must be true love because she thinks baseball is incredibly boring.
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Ref 369 bere54
Ah, but you see; the old man gave my father a rich story to which was added a moral when my father told the story to his children and grandchildren. The money would have been spent with little rememberance of what it purchased, or how it was acquired. The fable has been passed on to myself, my siblings, my child, neices, and nephews.
When you think of it; I learned the lesson from the fable that enriched my life in many ways. My father continues to reap rewards for his act of humanity. And so do I.
The glass is always full. Sometimes it is full of wine. Sometimes it is full of air...ready to be filled with wine.
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Ref 373 bere54
"...about the naked guy running by that you're meant to give a towel to..." reminds me of another story.
A very talented friend was playing piano at a bar in Detroit in the early '70s not long after the "streaking" craze started. A competing bar had a streaker run through a couple nights previous, increasing business triple as people hoped to see if there would be a repeat performance.
The owner of my friend's bar offered myself and another friend $100 each to streak his bar. Being in a receptive mood (tequila was involved), we took up the offer. The owner offered the use of the mens room for our pre-streaking costume change. Our girlfriends stood outside the door to take our clothes to a waiting car for our quick get-away.
While standing naked in the mens room, drinking another quick shot of courage, a man came in; turned around and was gone. Having found the courage, we dashed from the mens room. Got about half way through the bar when a gorilla-like man caught both of us in each arm. We tried to escape his grip without success until the owner ran over to tell the bouncer to release us. We headed for the door and dove into the waiting car to speed off into the night.
A towel would have been nice. Even a hat:-O
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publius -
Yes, one who has a full glass is rich, whether the glass be full of stories, or wine, or rewards for acts of humanity, or all of the above.
I have for a very long time made a point of doing little acts of kindness for strangers to atone for one much regretted act of unkindness to a stranger when I was very young and in a distressed situation (but no excuse under the circumstances). It was not a terrible thing but it was unnecessary and I've never forgotten it, and I guess something good came out of it because it has affected how I do things ever since. I was not as good as your father when I was young.
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First summer-like evening, walked downtown, all the bars, restaurants, clubs packed, sliding doors open, table and chairs on the sidewalk, etc. Had some pasta, came home.
My father was asked by a raggedy man for money for a meal. As he was on his way to have lunch at a tavern asked the man to join him. They sat down together, my father ordered two meals, but when the man realized there would be no beer involved, got up and left in disgust without eating! Oh well!
Bere - I think you did the right thing. I would not have said anything.
aqua - Your Nana story is priceless.
I highly respect Jimmy Carter. This is lengthy but worth the watch. The Hour with George Stroumboulopoulos on CBC is a highly rated show.
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377, publius -
Too bad the owner hadn't clued the bouncer ahead of time. He could have had towels at the ready. I hope you got your 100 bucks. I'm sitting here trying to picture two naked young men held in the grip of a gorilla, dangling . . . So did it boost business?
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I did tell a store clerk that I saw a young guy pocket some beer, but it was a medium sized store, I shopped there all the time and had a good relationship with the owners. Once after changing purses I found myself at the cash with neither cash nor cheque (pre debit days). They insisted I take the $160. of groceries (more like $250. today) and pay later - and... was told I was not to make a special trip back to the store, etc. etc.
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'night Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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To our Shaman
Your 'streaking' story was so hilarious! I knew that at one time you must have had to take the role of 'clown' before moving into the wisdom you now have.
I also enjoyed the story of your father and I see where you learned to be so very wise!
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Ref 380 bere54
Yes. The $100 was paid in advance. As it turns out, the owner was on his way to inform the bouncer to open the door and let us pass with all due speed but was side-tracked for a moment. The man who entered the mens room got to the bouncer before the ruse could be explained. (Of course he thought it odd that two young men were naked together in the mens room. Not that kind of bar!)
It was an older crowd of men and women that patronized the bar. (The bouncer had the job of screening for a select...patronage) Business did get a more-than-substantial return on investment, especially after the piano player let it get around that we would be returning that coming weekend. We did not do a repeat performance; but we received any number of...interesting(?) proposals for another performance...and free drinks all night.
A good time was had by all:-)
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To all for some clarification
Our Happy Coyote made reference to an unclothed man on another thread. No one seemed to respond so I posted back to him. Happy responded. I presumed Happy's post was a metaphor for certain posters, comparing them to the old tale of the "Emperor's New Clothes." I responded with my own sarcasm. Sam got the entirely wrong impression and now we are all confused except for our dear Coyote.
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Ref 383 aquarizonagal
The trickster coyote is my friend. He romps and plays his tricks to my delight (and his). It's fun to play along with him. I also have learned when to stand back and watch his antics; and not be drawn into his traps.
When I chose my parents, I knew I chose well. They taught me to be responsible, caring, loving, hard-working, thoughtful, reverent, fun-loving, intellegent...and a bit reckless. Then they let me try my wings on my own at an early age because I had demonstrated how well I learned what they taught me. I chose some paths that were...not to their individual liking. I chose far more that made them proud of me...and their mutual decision that I could handle myself well.
I've enjoyed my life so much, I have passed my up-bringing and values onto my son. He is doing well with his life, too. He likes to play with trickster coyote as much as I. Now I know the courage my parents have.
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To Our Shaman
It seems we may be the only ones left in the kitchen this night so let us celebrate our parents together. Mine were also wise in many ways. I was their first daughter and the first of their children born in America. The gifts my parents gave to me were more than gold, their loving kindness, their work ethic, their good hearts and above all the privilege to be born in the USA. What more could any child want!
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Many Changing Woman
I have seen in your many postings where you write of your Dear One, sister, children, and grandchildren that you also chose your parents well. The love you give them is like the love of Grandfather Sun and Grandmother Earth; not meant to sufficate nor burn, but nurture and comfort.
We celebrate our parents by how well we have raised our issue. The future of our species, and our spirit. Far too many parents have ignored their only true calling; to love, nurture, teach, and guide the children they have brought into this world. My spirit weeps to see so many children searching for the love they crave while their parents seek wealth and self-satisfying their own empty lives with toys that catch their eye for only a moment while ignoring the needs of their progeny who will one day ignore them in the days of their greatest need.
Little wonder there are so many hateful, aching people who lash out blindly against others.
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Aqua good assumption. I took it that that was where you took it.
I was in-fact referring to naked guys that sit in baths and dream of big ideas ... for a price.
in a town called ... I forget.
but if you do see a naked guy running around you give them a towel.
and most people carry a towel incase they meet one of these strange old men.
Crazy Terry Pratchett world creeping into reality there.
And I'm still for my crazy theory about the poor MATT.
373 Bere you I thought woudld have got it.
People were talking philly style.
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365. At 01:26am on 25 Apr 2009, happylaze wrote:
lets just say that something fishy is in that trailer park.
There is, isn't there? Thought that for a long time. The trouble is, I fear it's not a trailer park, it's a run down caravan site.
(Actually, I suspect it's more a fancy loft apartment in Docklands. Come across this sort of thing before elsewhere; turned out to be an expat Yank, in IT in Dublin, feeling homesick and vicious.)
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I'm not sure which of the two posts I tried to get up made it.
but the streaker is a ref to terry pratchett books.
a town where the thinkers charge for thinking about your problems. known for old philosophers running around without their cloths because they were struck with an Idea in the bath.
and ran out to find some chalk.
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too = 2
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349. At 8:36pm on 24 Apr 2009, happylaze wrote:
"317 Mr Brit. If you need one permanently we'll have to look at tricking one out for you .
Start thinking of the theme. You want spiky bits and built in Fog horns.?"
Curvy bits, I think. Fins, maybe. (Saw this amazing old Cadillac El Dorado in Portobello last Sunday.) Gone off punks and goths. Fog-horn's a good idea, though: I seem to go invisible in supermarkets in it. (You know the way Brits sort of look around you for fear they might embarrass you if they're caught looking at you? Though I think I prefer that to the French "pauvre jeune" look I've got using one there . . .or the Belgians, who mostly look away a bit too obviously. . .)
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393 lol. Just to say I had a gran with pretty serious MS.
So was used to the wheelchair from an early age.
How about a 2000ad style.
or we could just go all out.
for laughs here's laurie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av5gQckTN18
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Since we're on a tour of Europe, the Canadian members of the kitchen might find some fun in this: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/apr/25/ottawa-northumberland-advert
(The 'sea coast of Bohemia' again. Or 'the coastal harbours of Alberta'.)
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british
I saw a similar article on the BBC site. This from a Province I have vowed not to name or criticize as it is the birth place of chrono. I inadvertently offended him by doing so. Also of note, the riding of our much un-beloved PM is located there. A "small" correction to the article linked. Edmonton is not in fact 600 miles from the Atlantic, but 3000!! Other than that, the similarities are overwhelming!!
P.S. Please do not tell chrono, but I would rather be in Northumberland! I believe he understands my sentiment as he now lives in Ottawa.
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396. At 1:47pm on 25 Apr 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:
british
Other than that, the similarities are overwhelming!!
Really? Do they do kippers there as well? Friends brought some back for me from the town nearby a couple of years ago. They were wonderful.
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british
Read you remarks about leaving documents in tube stations. A Cabinet Minister in our current government left his briefcase at the home of his girlfriend, a former biker gang moll. It was never made clear what his motivation was, other than the loss of his Cabinet position, which he accomplished!
This article dated before he tendered his resignation shows the famous dress! Bit of a joke that our control freak PM would say it is none of his business.
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397 british
I presume two things: 1) you like your kippers with plenty of oil! and 2) you know I was joking! "Northumberland nestled in the foothills of the Rocky Mountains" could be their new ad campaign. And why not? If that Province can have beaches why not Northumberland Rocky mountains?
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399. At 2:42pm on 25 Apr 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:
397 british
Yes to (2); most certainly not to (1). Grilled. With butter. Anyway, Northumberland's already got mountains. Well, little ones. Sort of. Hills, anyway. But it's the kippers that are really important.
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396 riding your PM does not sound like fun.
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britishish. I'm with you. squalid caravan park in Bexhill .
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of to smack some metal again but I really have to say the comments I made about British-ish's comments on the other blog and MATT trying to now say he is out of context is so deceitful.
Racist's that lie to everyone probably themselves should be kept away.
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Greetings on this day!
I have never eaten kippers but anything grilled with butter always tastes good! I must confess that I prefer fish alive and swimming, rather then dead on a plate. Not that I would ever eat them alive. (for the more literal minded here)
I enjoy watching fish and I have nearly always had aquariums. Now we have a small pond with Koi and turtles. This is a great joy to us. The Koi will feed from our hands and the turtles are so much fun. We considered the initial expenditure of water in this desert was somewhat justified because it recirculates. To have a real fish pond was a life long dream for both of us.
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Hi all
My computer screen went dark and I can't get it fixed til next week. Using a dreadful computer at the library right now, tried to send email, Windows (yikes), no privacy, weird keyboard, just wanted to say I'll be out of touch for a while, no need to send timewaits to look for me. Closest mac repair place hour and a half drive, egads.
Have fun. See you next week maybe.
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401 happy - ok, you're right, poor sentence structure! I don't want to go near the man, nor his riding! Did you check out the dress? #398 Worn to his swearing-in-ceremony, on his recommendation!
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timewaitsfornoman
I had wondered at the time Bernier was in the news why a politician would associate himself with anyone known to have connections with the Hell's Angels Motorcycle Club. Especially when the RCMP have been trying to break up the group in Canada.
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407. publiusdetroit
See 390 and 402. Got canned in the other place.
But I've been looking through his past: he knows about 'Milky Way' bars rather than Snickers (at the time of the changeover); referred to PM Brown sarcastically "if he's the best we have"; wrote once about driving up the M1; has claimed to be a physicist on one blog, Catholic on another, of Russian-Jewish origin on one more, to prefer Belgian chocolate, to have been fluent and lived in France in 1973, panicked about Polish immigration, the 'Islamisation' of Britain, etc. etc.
Sam could be right, and he's a 'pied noir'. Would explain it.
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Ref 408 british-ish
My vote is with Sam. He and Ms. Marbles have a way of sniffing out a trail.
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407 detroit - I do not recall if it was ever answered to our satisfaction. Perhaps he liked how she looked in the dress! He is a "golden boy" from the Beauce (region of Quebec) and was easily re-elected.
Now that the RCMP have so successfully shut down the Hell's Angels, other gangs have moved in to fill the vacuum. More violent ones that the RCMP know little about. Given my druthers I'd take the home grown version. I do not understand why they did not anticipate this happening.
Luckily I am not required to track down bere as I do not know where she lives.
408 british - I admit to not reading his comments any longer. Very closed minded of me I know! Is the time on your post correct? Are you posting at 4:20 am?
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Ref 410 timewaitsfornoman
I do not understand that neither. It should have been expected. I lost a lot of respect for the RCMP over the whole situation.
If we need to find Bere, I don't think it will be too much of a problem. She was a little startled when I mentioned a certain small town in a post last weekend;-)
I blame it on the trickster coyote in me. I like working puzzles.
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411 detroit - I believe the crack-down was started by the Surete du Quebec (former QPP) under pressure after a child was killed. As long as the Hell's Angels kept the violence "in house" it was tolerated. The RCMP then got involved.
I have my ideas as to where bere lives but am not sure how she would take to us talking about her behind her dark screen. Will admit to being amazed at the number of private schools in Vermont for such a small population. They have about half as many as Quebec, population 7.5 million. Is it the same in Michigan?
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Ref 412 timewaitsfornoman
It's too bad her Mac went south. I'll miss her until she gets back.
We're a big public school state. A large number of the Catholic Schools have shut down over the past 20 years, reducing the number of private schools. Detroit was hit hardest. We went from a city of 2 million to a town where I think they will need to take a count in the cemetaries to come up with 75 thousand in the upcoming 2010 census.
Our public schools are being hit hard by the economy. My sister teaches in a small town that is having a battle about consolidating school systems with another small town. Neither of them have the money to remain open much longer.
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detroit - Spent the day yesterday at our summer home, it was glorious. Turned on the water (not me, husband M), stacked logs (cut last fall), etc. Busy and productive. Have not seen the house since last October. The community is not yet officially "open" but a friend took us over in his boat. You probably have enough information to figure out where it is. If not, then it is the discreet hide-away, as advertised - discreetly!
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detroit - As you serious - 75K? I do not like to criticize my neighbours (not in public anyway), but sometimes I just do not understand how the US operates. How could this be allowed to happen? I understand economic pressures, etc., but why did someone not step in and help? Many of our schools have closed or consolidated, but it was due to the shrinking Anglo population, rather than lack of funds. (They are ever so slowly on the rise.) Not saying schools do not need more money, but it is required for updating, new technology, etc. not the heating bills.
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Timewaitsfornoman
We had your weather Friday. It rained yesterday and will rain again today. Big booming thundershowers.
It's nice to have a nearby place to go for a change of scenery. I've always wanted to live on an island, but we bought a place over near Wheatley, ON on the lake. P still has it.
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detroit - You had mentioned a "cottage" in Ontario, looks like a nice location (tobacco country?). It must have been hard for you to give it up. Close friends of ours built their "dream home" in the country south of Montreal. He came home one day to announce (after 30 yrs of marriage) he was having an affair!! Yeeks ! As a result she lost her cottage (was not able to maintain it on her own). That was one of the hardest things for her to accept. Affair aside! Lots of gory details.
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timewaitsfornoman
Used to be a lot of tobacco grown. A lot of the tabacco fields are becoming vineyards. More so to the west. I think it will just be a matter of time before the vineyards take over around Wheatley. The same climate that made good tobacco grows very good wine grapes. Have not seen the place for years. We always met around Leamington (Ruthven) to exchange SonnyA. Just as well.
P was more of the "cottage" person. I'm the camper-backpacker. There was no battle over that property. But it was nice to enjoy the cool lake weather when the city became too hot. It was close enough to be able to commute to work every day.
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detroit - Looks like a bit of a drive. I did not know vineyards were taking over tobacco. Makes sense. Can't say I have ever been in the area. Went to London once on my way to Stratford for the Festival, but that is the best I can do.
Somehow your weather has veered off course as it was to rain today but is now mainly sunny. 29c!! forecast for tomorrow. And just like that - summer! Maybe it's raining on poor computer-less bere in Vermont.
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lol folk.
the schitzo is busy with himself over there. a mass debater if ever there was.
Point pack o lies. a waste of space and a waste of time. nothing but allowing racists to spout their "hate them because of my lies" they slander whole nations and promote racism.
A cottage can be used to describe republican anti gay politicians, once they get into a public toilet.
just for laughs
TIME.. yes I see the dress. Both of them.
very nice,
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410. At 12:36pm on 26 Apr 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:
"408 british - I admit to not reading his comments any longer. Very closed minded of me I know! Is the time on your post correct? Are you posting at 4:20 am?"
Er, yes. don't sleep too well some nights. No need to read any of their rubbish. It's still exactly the same.
420. At 3:46pm on 26 Apr 2009, happylaze:
A Canadian guy totally misled me by telling me he was "cottaging" the next weekend, so he'd be out of touch . . .I was, well, surprised ;-)
(Very, very, cautiously asked for elucidation , , ,)
(LOL: I was a bit slow connecting there. Nice one. Can I borrow it some time?)
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Ref 419 timewaitsfornoman
It was a bit of a drive, but the water is cleaner past Point Pelee. It can get wretched after a hard rain and old septic tanks overflow on the west side of the point. That's why we opted for the longer drive.
I understand that Stratford has hit hard times since crossing the border became more bothersome, and the Looney went high. I used to go at least once during the summer, usually a couple times. They boosted the ticket prices so high; added to the higher Looney, it just became too expensive to drive there and stay in a motel. I miss it. There were so many great plays to see.
It's starting to clear up here a little. I think I had better get a couple thing done outside while I have a chance.
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Timewaitsfornoman
I meant to mention: I know you get to see the freighters passing, but do you get a lot of air traffic flying over your summer place?
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happy - "Both of them" So who's thinking about her past at a time like that? Not him...!
Does the mass debater believe himself?
At the cottage, looked at our railing-less stairs, landing, and outside balcony (with an above-knee-wall) that at one point has about a 30' drop! and thought, if only I could afford to fly happy here to make me fabulous stair and balcony railings. But at the present time, I cannot. We might be reduced to hammering together some two-by-fours for when my 1 1/2 yr old nephew comes!!
british - thanks for your elucidation - I had no idea what happy was talking about, not unusual! Could only presume it was an expression I am unfamiliar with. Yes, we call them cottages and go to them on (not at) week-ends and during the summer.
Sorry to hear about your not sleeping. The few times it has happened to me I found it very boring!! Read a lot.
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423 detroit - Well done! As for air traffic, not at our end. And yes I did see some freighters pass - well one! I told you you had enough info.
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Spent part of the afternoon putting a cheek on a dyke. Before you go for the profanity filter, a drystane dyke is a dry-built (mortarless) stone wall, and a cheek is the end....lovely working with stone - totally re-cyclable, and never in short supply around North Glen. Some spring blossoms here (scroll down from the nipples)
;-)
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Timewaits:
Next time you are driving to Stratford, get off the 401 at K-W, then take hwy 7 & 8 west through New Hamburg to Stratford. It will save you at least half an hour.
Or, alternatively, perhaps someday you will be able to get to Stratford by train. Wouldn't that be wonderful. You could dine, after the show, indulge yourself in the bounty of those vines, and not have to worry about driving back.
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427 Interested - Funny you should mention the train. The one time I was in London many years ago was during a school trip. We were to change trains in To and were explicitly told not to leave Union Station, which 6 of us promptly did thereby missing the train to Stratford!! We had a few $ between us, no tickets, etc. The chaperons had foolishly (luckily for us) left on the train! OMG We threw ourselves on the mercy of VIA who put us on a train to London, stop-over, connect to Stratford. The chaperons were waiting on the platform, some p***ed-off, I can tell you! Prior to arrival, we had so much fun!
I have since taken the train to Stratford via To.
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well I made the mistake of looking at the nipple post from Ed. (hey I'm a guy) and the computer said No.
the Mass debater doesn't believe itself. , well bits(self glory etc)
Boring and why should we get RSI from typing the same answers EVERY week for ever.
But the Mods don't understand.
Time. did I say I was cheap?;) I am.(i know that can be taken more than one way.)
as for cottaging. I would recommend a British urban dictionary.
Or thinking of republican polititians and megachurch ministers in johns.(not a pleasant thought)
Or maybe Wham.
I can't be bothered to read the other posts on the other threads anymore. just the titbits pointed out by others.
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happy - If you could not see Ed's post do not get too excited! From what I can see, he was talking about squirrels. Maybe british would be interested - I don't know. Although there was a comment from chrono.
Cheap? Still not clear, you mean as on a date? ok, ok, I'm just trying to be amusing! Googled cottaging, had never heard the expression before and neither had husband M - not that there is any reason why he should know it better than I! (Personally I don't like to think of it at all, never mind their religion or political association.)
When bere gets her computer fixed - we will start our own discussion group. You may pick the topic! I can't be much bothered with some of the others either, but do so love your comments when you get going. Don't suppose you can talk while you're blacksmithing can you? Should I ever be able to afford (even "cheap") you, how would I be able to enjoy your take on things?
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And now it's the war again. Makes me wonder if I'm supposed to be looking out for parachutists or Russians with snow on their boots, or maybe pack a suitcase ready to be interned in the Isle of Man or something . . .
They'll be round to confiscate my Parmigiano cheese and Peroni beer from my fridge soon, I can see. Perhaps I should bury them for the duration. (The squirrels will know somewhere safe, I'm sure.)
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To Bririshish
Do not worry about the Russians. They might eat the cheese but would rather have some good vodka than your beer. Cut up what ever bread and vegetables you may have in the house along with some sausage and the cheese. You can all get drunk, sing together and a good time will be had by all. Trust me on this, I have had inside information for years.
I am also weary of the debates(?) on that and other threads. The inmates seem to be running the asylum. I think I need a vacation!
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british - I know. I contemplated jumping in to contribute the fact that my father-in-law was in the RCAF and took part in the raid on Dresden, but thought better of it! When my mother-in-law died, this very quiet man (well he was not allowed to speak) became so talkative it was impossible to shut him up. I used to joke that I had heard the minutely detailed stories so often, believed I would be able to fly a plane!!
Escape to Canada - we have decent cheese, beer and a large Italian community. If it was good enough for the Dutch Royal Family... Did you know Dutch Princess Margriet was born in Ottawa? The Canadian government made the maternity ward international territory so she would have the nationality of her mother Queen Juliana. Each year Ottawa receives 20,000 tulips from the Royal Family. Ergo - Ottawa's got a lot of tulips!! Ask chrono. But... maybe you knew all that or are not the least bit interested!
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Now we have the latest fear mongering here, Swine Flu.
Britishish, let us both party with the Russians, zakuski, vodka, beer and hangovers in the morning. That works for me!
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aqua - I unilaterally decided that when bere returns happy may pick a topic for us to discuss. Should be interesting - no? Or perhaps I should say, eh?
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Timely One
At this point I would trust our Happy Coyote to select a topic and moderate the comments much more than what we have been experiencing of late. "No" or "Eh" either is fine with me.
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aqua - "swine flu" I know, I have been thinking of you. It is also a concern here as so many Canadians vacation in Mexico and might bring it home.
I have a Russian immigrant story for you. My parents had a very good friend whose parents were from Russia. Father arrived first (early 1900s) and then sent for mother. He told her, sell everything we own and buy leather boots. Americans are crazy about leather boots. She paid no attention, thinking he was the crazy one and instead bought a black Russian sable coat that she sewed inside her cloth one. They sold it for $5,000!! Their son became Director of the Mount Sinai Hospital, Dr. Martin Steinberg.
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433. timewaitsfornoman:
20,000 tulips? Every year? Now I know why they're so expensive here . . .I know about Italians in Canada, though. Even got some distant relatives there. (Seventh cousins ten times removed, or something. I never could work that kind of thing out.) In Sasketchewan, of all places.
434. aquarizonagal:
Yes. I'd noticed they're pigging out on swine fever over there. Doesn't help with it being Mexican, does it?
(I came across a curious story that sort of shows how differently things work over here. Apparently a guy got home to Northampton from Mexico City on Saturday, felt ill, rang NHS Direct--that's a kind of free phone helpline where you talk to a nurse -- and they biked round a pack of that anti-flu medicine--forget what it's called--for him and his family right away . . .)
I suppose we'll all be flooded with spam emails offering those pills at 'only' 100 dollars apiece like last time.
(Anyway, I had my free flu jab last year again. It's nice of the NHS: they classify me as 'vulnerable', which I thought was a bit of a liberty, really, at first, but still . . .Over here they reckon that will probably work.)
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To Timely One
Loved your story! Immigrants will keep what may seem bizarre to some, when they must leave their homes for an uncertain future. A few things that my mother refused to leave behind turned out to be treasures, as well.
I refuse to be afraid of this Swine Flu scare. Some are very frightened here. I think they should be more afraid of vigilantes and their war with drug and human smugglers than this flu.
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To Britishish
We also are considered "vulnerable" being "seniors and elderly" so we also get jabbed. We only do this because our children insist upon it. I once questioned our doctor about how effective this was since my dear one and I grew up a long time before many vaccines were routine for children and adults. She confided that we probably had better immune systems than the young because we were exposed to so many diseases but that it was better not to take chances at our age.
Mexico WILL suffer because of this. The ignorant will use this influenza out break as just one more excuse for prejudice and persecution. I worry about any who may try to cross the border now and pray that they will not be so desperate.
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To Britishish
I just visited the other thread and the 'MII'person thinks I want to entrap you with my feminine wiles! I nearly choked with laughter and I was enjoying such nice a Hungarian wine.
I assure you, sir, I have no such designs upon you. My dear one would not approve and I always try to keep this man happy. Where would I ever find another like him?
I think I shall go back and challenge the 'MIIperson' to a duel. He has besmirched my honor and I am perfectly capable of defending it myself.
Weapons please!
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british - Yes, every year. Ottawa has an annual Tulip Festival. In the Amsterdam airport duty free, there are tulips for sale that only Canadians are allowed to buy! The Dutch have never forgotten.
"In Saskatchewan, of all places," is right! Large community here in Montreal with an official Little Italy and another area I call Little, little Italy!
Canadians are told if they have returned from Mexico and do not feel well to contact a doctor immediately. Of course all treatment is free. Flu shots are also free to those "at greater risk" as well as their family members.
aqua - glad you enjoyed the story. The flu is a concern but agree, it sounds like you have more important things to worry about. Do you live close to the border?
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I just poured at least a quart of honey on the 'MIIperson.' He WILL choke on it because he thrives on anger, disagreement and discontent. He is sad.
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british - Ventured over onto the other page - a mistake! You might be interested in this. Have you read, Lives of the Saints by Nino Ricci? I highly recommend it! So much so, I must reread it.
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To#442 Timely One
As an old cowboy I once knew said " If the wind is right I can spit there."
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aqua - Not knowing any about Arizonian cowboys, that sounds close.
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444. At 03:05am on 27 Apr 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:
british - Ventured over onto the other page - a mistake!
Not a pretty site, is it? (btw I must have got on MA's nerves a bit today.)
You might be interested in this.
I never knew my ancestors on the Italian side might have helped out in 1812. I am pleased. I'm going to save that one up for the horrid emperor. I've been trying to provoke him into being mean about Italians as well for ages, but I can't seem to get it to come off.
Have you read, Lives of the Saints by Nino Ricci?
Nope. I'll look out for it.
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Aqua I see the subject of swine flu is being used like that.
big question there is how will america cope?
half the population will not see a doc until they are almost dead so I suspect it will spread quickly here.
(Though it is not some real big killer anyway.)
Not like it was dreamt up by the Military.
Remember that out break film.
Me and my way patriotic brother went to see it in the movies in NYC when it came out.
When they got the bomb to miss everyone cheered, . stood up and cheered.
It was a film. but they stood up and cheered at the US military doing good. Not dropping the bomb on the town.
lol me and my bro laughed so hard after at those cheers.
Time I will pack some tools and smuggle them over the border and come make a racket at your summer lodge to scare the bears away and ward off evil spirits.
Blacksmiths can do that don't you know.
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britishish lol having a good day's sport there.
I see you got a brace or two.
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british - "save that one up for the horrid emperor" If you like but please try not to do too much damage to Canada in the process! He might miss the mark and vent on us!!
happy - We don't have any bears!! Or evil spirits. French Canadian voyageur (not voyeur!!) spirits perhaps as they used it as an overnight stop on their fur trading trips. I do believe you are stereotyping!
I was wondering the same about how the US will cope with the flu. Offer free medical assistance to their population? Egads! that's socialism! and you know where that leads. Sad movie story!
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450. At 1:03pm on 27 Apr 2009, timewaitsfornoman wrote:
british - "save that one up for the horrid emperor" If you like but please try not to do too much damage to Canada in the process! He might miss the mark and vent on us!!
Point taken. I'll have to think of something else. Apparently my sense of humour doesn't agree with him.
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british - It agrees with me. I think you have a fabulous sense of humour - so clever! I appreciate it.
Just start singing the praises of Italy, that should do it.
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lol 450 No bears or evils.
well what ever demons exist they are driven away by the sound of Iron. (or so the myths say)
One reason why people have lucky horse shoes.
the Iron was the important bit. Horse shoes could be found, most Iron was looked after in OldOLD days. (it was hard to produce from Ore)
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Happy,
- "I see you got a brace or two."
How could you? I'm shocked at your insensitivity!Complain about this comment
454 Sorry British -ish . I was talking peasant.
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As the demimillennial post approaches, I've been scouting out a strategy.
In due course.....
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happy - Rethinking - there is one couple who are a pain in the neck, but would not go so far as to call them evil. But if you could manage to drive them away, it would be appreciated. Maybe I could get the town to pay your air fare!! Communal joint thoughts of: just go away, do not appear to be working. If anything the couple (well, her - requires serious medication!) appears to be getting worse.
I'll have to look around and see if we have any iron and then start banging on it! Definitely no bears though! Foxes, how are they affected? I love my foxes (they wait at the door for me to feed them), don't want them driven away.
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To#453 Happy Coyote
You are so full of wonderful bits of information! I never knew that about lucky horseshoes. We have one hanging above our front door that a friend gave us so our "luck would not run out." We have never had any "demons" in our house either. Well, sometimes the grandchildren and greats can be a little 'demonish' but only when hungry.
I hope we get a new topic soon. Perhaps fear and hate mongering would make an interesting discussion, especially with the swine flu panic. I recall being worried about polio for my children before the vaccine. It was every parent's nightmare.
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Heloise - You and your big words - I don't have time for translation, I have a government form (who knows how many pages long) to complete! All in French - so translation required there! Good scouting though, so far gone it's off the page.
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Interesting strategy there ED .
Time,
sweet with the foxes. Nah Only evil spirits get driven away.
PS I'm sure I could get rid of the vermin for you.
I could go over and talk to them every day all day.
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Ed you're into languages.
we joke about the welsh and their sheep.
Here in the land of trees (gone) they stand and stare at bits of wood.in every gallery.
keep it woodsy.
but the same people don't spend much time in the woods.
I have started to tell them they must be necrodendrophiliacs.
Keeps the loggers amused.
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happy - I really must get to the Post Office but... I was thinking the same. No need for you to bang on anything, just your conversation should do it!! He loves to talk though, so good luck there and she's a great one for being obvious about ignoring people she does not agree with (mainly everyone) and I believe would cry and stomp off if challenged. But.... it might work.
And aqua - we have tried the honey approach, that was a no go!
Joni Mitchell had polio, did you know that?
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Just popping in for a moment. My father has me doing a project on the metal-turning lathe he had "willed" to me. He has decided he wants to build a car rack to carry his electric scooter (the chair type) on the back of his automobile.
He has come up with a design to do this from readily available materials, but needs a specialized part and was bemoaning, when we were on the telephone last night, not having his beloved lathe at hand to turn it. I chuckled when reminding him the reason I have the lathe is because I'm his only child that knows how to operate the thing.
At this tender time of life, Dad keeps thinking that my brother is the one he taught to use the lathe and is confused why it is in my garage. It just keeps slipping past him that not only did he teach me from a very early age to be a machinist, but also his father and brother added to my knowledge.
The Old Man gives me the biggest hoot, at times:-)
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Any idea how many necrodendrophiliacs there are in the world? Can't be many - can there? Is there a self help group? Because those people need help!
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So that's where the term woody comes from.
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456. At 4:38pm on 27 Apr 2009, Hesiodos wrote:
"As the demimillennial post approaches, I've been scouting out a strategy."
Yes, I was wondering about that. I've been getting a bit worried every time this hidey-hole ends up at the top of the list of 'topical posts'. I quite like the 'cultiver notre jardin' aspect of that one.
453. At 4:10pm on 27 Apr 2009, happylaze wrote:
"well what ever demons exist they are driven away by the sound of Iron. (or so the myths say)
One reason why people have lucky horse shoes."
When I was a kid, I was told you were supposed to throw one with your right hand over your left shoulder. It was supposed to bring you luck. (I suppose it did, in a way, it just missed the kitchen window. Phew.)
(Oh, btw I was thinking more grouse. Feared they were only winged, though.)
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Noman (457),
- "Communal joint "
Don't mind if I do....And as to words, it should perhaps have been demimillicomment....
Happy,
Peasant? Adding insult to injury! (I suspect Ish is pretty tough)
;-)
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lol pub happy turning.
Time.
they think they are furniture designers
but the loggers
they (f word) trees right.?
the bad chainsaw artists.
now they are the necrodendrophiliacs.
lol as for self help groups for them. not sure no building is safe around here.
Annie who.
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I'm off to run a diversion
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