Trucks - the coming trade war?
The truck dispute between Mexico and the US is a big deal in the making - perhaps the first battle of a global trade war? Or the shock to the system that convinces everyone there has to be a better way?
It does look as if the US is in the wrong - if you go by the rules - and President Obama is faced with a choice: persuade Congress to comply with the rules or give up on a key aspect of NAFTA, following through on a campaign threat that most people thought was hollow but which has some continuing political advantages.
There is some political cost in the White House forcing Congress to reinstate the truck scheme - at a time when the Obama team want to reduce the spending of capital in order to keep some for future rainy days. Result: the trucks won't roll.
Hello, I'm 
~RS~q~RS~~RS~z~RS~30~RS~)
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Allowing Mexico to send their trucks and drivers over our border and on our highways involves more than a trade war. It also involves highway safety since, as I understand it, we cannot be assured of the condition of their vehicles nor the experience of their drivers.
Many of our commercial drivers here have grave concerns about sharing the highways with truckers from Mexico. I have had to share the road with buses from Mexico which have been 'exciting' experiences on more than one occasion.
Will their drivers and vehicles be held to the same standards and rules as ours? I know that this is an issue that involves more than NAFTA.
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I do not expect the "truck flap" to evolve into a major trade war between the USA and Mexico. NAFTA is a binding international agreement, which we championed and embraced when it was convenient to us. It is simply unacceptable to pick and choose which facets of an international agreement are acceptable as economic conditions change. We are either a nation of laws, and abide by them, or abandon the whole enchilada and resort to piracy and smuggling as preferred forms of global trade. Behind this episode is intense hatred towards Mexico - and more accurately towards Mexicans - by people who seize every opportunity to pursue their xenophobic goals. Make no mistake, if it is not trucks it will be drug cartels, illegal immigration, expensive oil imports, pollution and just about anything that could be said to demonize our southern neighbors.
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The issue is more complicated than that, as most things are. Here's a little more information on the subject:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91385
If Mexican trucks don't meet US safety standards, then Mexico is also breaking the rules, it seems. I don't want unsafe trucks on US highways.
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You beat me Aqua. I guess you are neglecting your cacti! BTW, I used to have a pretty nice collection of cacti when I lived in Barstow, Mojave Desert. They are beautiful when they bloom. However, I don't remember too many frogs in the High Desert thoughl just horny toads, lots of snakes, spiders, tarantulas, coyotes, road runners and a few other critters.
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We made a deal. Whether it was a good deal or not is beside the point. We have to live up to it.
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I will add this to my first post.
We have what amounts to a war going on in the border towns of Mexico that has been spilling over into the US. Will we empty each truck to search for contraband before it crosses our border? How will this contribute to the problems we already face.
Things are not pretty where I live. People are both frightened and militant. They go armed in the day time and keep loaded shotguns by their beds at night. Someone will get hurt. A lot of people here do not want Mexican trucks crossing our border.
Obama has so very much to do but he WILL have to deal with these border issues sooner rather than later or things could get really nasty.
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It may go the same way as the steel tariffs imposed by President Bush in his 1st term. The US eventually backed down.
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Justin Webb:
The truck dispute between Mexico and the US is a big deal in the making - perhaps the first battle of a global trade war?
I think this is first round of a global trade war, between USA and Mexico on the trucks...on U.S.A. Roads..
~Dennis Junior~
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To Saintdominick
Unfortunately there are a number of xenophobes who live near me. They are scared, angry and armed. This is not a comfortable place to live right now. We try to keep a low profile and our opinions to ourselves.
As for frogs: I have no idea where they come from or where they go. It has only happened a few times during heavy rains. I only know that they are large, green and noisy. They hang around the pond for a few days and then they are gone. Fun while it lasts because Jack, our one-eyed red eared turtle just hates them.
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If the main concern involves the safety of Mexican trucks and the skills of drivers, we should make our safety standards clear to them and if their drivers don't meet US driving standards, they should change drivers at the border. Personally, I think this issue is being blown out of proportion and does not merit a trade war.
I am much more concerned with the drug cartel wars, kidnappings,and the increase of violence on both sides of the border than Mexican trucks. IMO we should assist the Mexican government in their struggle to eradicate the drug cartels, we should end the flow of weapons to Mexico, and we must end the drug dependence problem that is the root cause of most of this problema.
As for trade wars, I think we should cool it. Protectionism and breaking international trade agreements are not a game and the consequences of such actions could be very serious indeed.
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Justin Webb:
Or the shock to the system that convinces everyone there has to be a better way?
Yes, there are many other solutions to this problem regarding the Mexican Truck Drivers on U.S. Roads.
~Dennis Junior~
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Due to comment length restrictions, please read my blog post on Mexican Cross-Border trucking at:
http://truckied.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/mexican-cross-border-trucking/
Questions and comments are welcome.
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For too long, the US has been like a farmer who trucks all his produce 500 miles away to feed the hungry while letting his neighbor, right next door, starve to death.
We have allowed relations to one of our closest and valuable neighbors become punitive, antagonistic and dismissive. We need to mend our relations with Mexico not our fences.
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As long as the vehicles meet every single standard that an American vehicle would it is what we agreed as part of NAFTA. The checks these trucks and trucking companies go through every single time they cross the border north bound are at least, if not more rigorous than American vehicles do which are infrequent and unless an obvious fault is noted visually on the road they are rarely checked. Understand that this was and is a requirement for American trucks to drive south of the border as well; which, has turned Mexico and Canada into our two largest trading partners for agricultural goods by a landslide. Those two together now equal the next six combined. We're talking tens of billions of dollars that has increased our total agricultural export trade by over %60 and our trade in general with our treaty and continental partners has jumped by over %150 since the last restrictions have pretty much come off. That is in just over a decade, and since 2006 when nearly all restrictions came off the numbers are climbing even faster. I submit that NAFTA is the 'poster child' for free trade. I do agree that simply allowing ANY more trucks on our roads without careful study and fairly radical change in how we move goods and people is a bad idea. I live in New Jersey USA where the traffic is absolutely horrific and due to there being several major ports and several petrol refineries in the area the percentage of trucks is large and growing rapidly. I have heard estimates from the state's planning board of a conservative estimate of a 35% increase in the number of trucks by 2012 on the same roads we use now. We are 'screwed'(pardon the language but sometimes it's apropos)!
What I don't understand is the lack of thinking about an economic stimulus plan to build a north-south continental high speed railroad, after all we did east-west over a hundred years ago now. That's a 'triple dipper' with three countries getting involved it would create jobs across the continent... seems kind of like a no-brainer to me, big banks lend to big construction companies that are hurting from not building houses, people get jobs of all kinds to support the projects, both short and long term improvements in business for everyone, far better for the environment as the monster train engines are almost ridiculously more efficient per ton of hauling capability over a truck, and certainly stronger ties with our neighbors; which cannot but help our national security concerns and capabilities, but I digress... That would simplify many things and both vastly increase both the internal and external cargo carrying capacity of North America, but would allow us to focus on the next steps in moving people from place to place.
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Don't let facts get in the way of your politics, folks.
The agreement in place does NOT hold Mexican trucks to the same safety standards as U.S. carriers. Bushie was afraid that might cost too much for his outsourcing buddies.
Easiest example for you to watch for? Notice those thrown retreads on the shoulder of the road - and in the road? Those are from Mexican trucks. Retreads have been banned for safety reasons from American trucks for a number of years.
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Mexico provides cheap labor for the US, on both sides of the border, it also is a major market for US made products - not just guns for the drug cartels, mind you.
Now the Mexicans are supposed to abandon a part of the business to the yanks, while they are not exactly the main beneficiary to begin with ?
So what is all that about, another border 'war' by some frustrated locals just for the hell of it ?
As for safety, I've never been to Mexico, but after spending a lot of time in the US and travelling the country a lot, I can assure you that compared to Western Europe, in general US drivers are not only lacking basic driving skills, but are also allowed to operate vehicles which would not be tolerated even in Italy. ;)
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Justin Webb:
Or the shock to the system that convinces everyone there has to be a better way?
Unless this results in both sides pointing out how dangerous each others trucks are compared to trains...
One would think that a million deaths a year would be shocking enough. But no, we want to electrify all our private motors to make them even more dangerous.
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To#12 Truckied
Thank you for your post and the link.
It clarified for me the issues that I have heard commercial drivers complain about. Mostly I have heard: "Mexican trucks and drivers are not safe" but I did not get a full explanation of all the reasons why this is so.
Your link also clarified how freight is moved and raised the possibility of smuggling if Mexican trucks and drivers are allowed to enter the US. This is also an important issue where I live. Most here do not trust customs and border guards to deal with the smuggling of contraband.
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15, Eideard-
Yikes. I always wondered what those big bits of tire all over the interstates were all about. I haven't noticed them much in Vermont; maybe that's because we don't seem to get much in the way of Mexican trucks here.
Lately, though, I haven't seen many trucks at all on the interstate here. Are we having issues with Canada?
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Aqua re your second post...
This war we mexicans are wagging in our towns and cities, is the same war you were wagging in the late 70's and 80's in your inner cities (remember the term "drive-by shooting"?). You just exported your drug war to us.
It's just annoying to hear/read time and again, that this is Mexico's fault, is basic economics of supply (Colombia, Peru, Bolivia) and demand (U.S.). Mexico is just in the middle, and paying the price in the blood of our civilians, police and military.
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"Square up" ? or "Square off"? "Square up" - to settle an account, to pay a debt,to set everthing right. "Square off" to prepare to get into a fight, state your claim, argue the point. Try to use the appropriate figure of speech - it does make a differance.
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aquarizonagal
I had no idea you were living in jeopardy and I really do not know what to say. You paint a very bleak picture. We have just driven over 2000 miles to SC and back and shared the road with hundreds of trucks. I presume they were all either American or Canadian drivers and it did not cross my mind to question their abilities.
As Canada only has one neighbour, we do not face the problems you describe. Although guns being smuggled in from the US is a growing problem. Knowing how kind hearted you are, having "neighbours right next door starve to death" (which I hope is an exaggeration!) must be so difficult for you.
I am shocked and saddened to read what you have written.
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There is a considerable amount of misinformation on this thread. For starters, American trucks do indeed use retreads, and lots of them.
Retreading a tire for use is better, among other things, from an environmental point of view. As to a poorer safety record for Mexican trucks entering the US, not true. Particularly with the now canceled pilot program designed to exapnd the number of Mexican trucks that could enter and deliver in the US. Do some research. This is all about the Teamsters. Mexico has retaliated with the imposition of a list of tariffs on American goods. Have you heard anyone in our government saying that Mexico is unjustified in imposing those tariffs because they were not in compliance with the safety provisions required? Anyone? Tells you all you need to know. If a case could be made that Mexico is in non-compliance, the objections by US government officials and legislators would be noticeably loud. Wouldn't it? But the silence is of course deafening on that point.
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What is forgotten in this is that according to the NAFTA trade agreement, which is only an agreement and not a binding treaty despite what business people and some politicians will tell you, is that Mexico is supposed to create a system equivalent to what we have here in the United States to insure that the person holding a Mexican Commercial Drivers License is who they say they are, that they have gone through a background check, that they have been trained and tested like we are supposed to be up here and have passed a DOT physical and have no serious criminal convictions on their police record (the equivalent of no felonies here in the US) and that every truck coming into this country can pass a Department of Transportation inspection. So far, the Mexican government has not complied with this. The smoke and mirrors that former DOT Secretary Mary Peters and other members of the Bush Administration pulled on the American public and on the American truck driver has been exposed for the scam it was. Mexican trucks that venture across the border into the United States have averaged as many as 12 major (puts the vehicle out of service until fixed) violations per truck. Most of the trucks are US trucks that no longer comply to our regulations and are sent over by US companies to their Mexican divisions. Until the Mexican government can prove that their system is on par with ours, there should be no Mexican trucks above the current 16 mile limit they are allowed to reach US warehouses along the border. Do you want an untrained, unsafe and untraceable driver from Mexico (or anywhere else for that matter) driving an 80,00 pound truck in your town tailgating your family? As a driver for more than 20 years this, as much as what American drivers are no longer being taught during their training, are 2 of the biggest issues of highway safety facing the United States today. I don't need my industry's image further damaged by even more people being able to bribe their way into getting a license that they should never have been given in the first place.
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being in the Intermodal business for 30 years, I feel letting Mexican trucks deep is the country isn't a great idea. who will be responsible for their meeting the DOT standard of America? will they be required to get IFTA tags that is required of American Truckers? there are a lot of
answers that are unanswered or not publlished.
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aquarizonagal
I had no idea you were living in jeopardy. I am shocked and saddened to read what you have written.
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12 TruckieD
Thanks for the link to your blog. I have a question - when a passing truck gets caught out in the passing lane, it does not appear that the truck being passed slows down to let him back in. Is that an accurate observation and if so why not? (I understand when it happens on an incline.)
Also just how frustrating is it for you to have cars in the passing lane match your speed? I ask after driving 2000 miles as it sure frustrated us!
aquarizonagal
Did not mean to post a similar comment twice!
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To #20 Charliemex65
I am so sorry that I did not make myself clear. I absolutely DO NOT blame Mexico for the current problems on the border. The drug wars and human trafficking are a common issue for which the US has totally failed to take proper responsibility of its share for a very long time, if ever.
We are neighbors. I believe that we need to work together not against each other.
To#22 Timewaitsfornoman
I think you may not have understood my post#13 about the farmer. It was metaphorical, not actual. I used that analogy to illustrate how much the US has neglected and hurt Mexico with xenophobic policies. I do tend to also grow angry with some of the people in my community who live as though in an armed camp waiting for attack. I worry that someone will get hurt.
Our relations with our neighbor, Mexico must be mended with mutual respect. There are angers and issues on both sides but I think the US should take the first steps to heal this rift.
Our policies and attitudes toward Mexico must change but Mexico must also do its part to address corruption, incompetence and the greed that keeps so many in poverty.
I am not very adept at expressing myself but I do hold strong opinions and unfortunately feel the pain and fear from both sides of this debate.
"Fear is a mind-killer and a little death..."
When will we face our fears and finally be healed?
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20 charliemex65
It is very disheartening to hear about what is happening in your country. The violence of the drug trade has been pushed farther and farther north. Mexico is the last stop. Where will it go from there?
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#16. U12831485: "So what is all that about, another border 'war' by some frustrated locals just for the hell of it ?"
I can only assume that the writer has never lived or visited a border area where Mexican drivers are to be found. Not only trade vehicles but those smuggling illegal immigrants at around $2,000 a time - as many as a hundred to a truck.
"As for safety, I've never been to Mexico, but after spending a lot of time in the US and travelling the country a lot, I can assure you that compared to Western Europe, in general US drivers are not only lacking basic driving skills, but are also allowed to operate vehicles which would not be tolerated even in Italy. ;)"
Wink or not, the generalisation is nonsense. Americans have been driving far longer than their European counterparts - and better. Mexican drivers are considered to be "aggressive" in their driving habits, ignoring road signs and highway etiquette. Come to Los Angeles before you make such sweeping judgements.
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30, David -
What you say about Mexican drivers sounds very similar to Virginia drivers, which is one of the reasons I no longer live there.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
'President Obama has repeatedly stated his opposition against protectionism....'
...until, of course until the magic moment when the Teamsters come calling to cash in their political chips.
It's one of those delicious quandries of the Democrats: On the one hand, they've been shamelessly buying union votes with tax dollars; and on the other hand, buying illegal alien votes with tax dollars. So, when both groups come calling demanding their payoff, which claim to honor first, and how to best phrase the explanation to the group that lost out?
Who can hurt you the worst-the union thugs (affiliated with the Sicilian Mafia) or the illegal alien organizers (with their ability to call their people onto the streets)? If you deny one, how do you pay off the other?
Isn't life fun under the Democrats?
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27 timewaitsfornoman
Whether a truck slows down or not depends on quite a number of factors. Ideally, there should be a hole left (in either lane) so trucks can move over.
As far as cars matching speeds, I don't find it frustrating unless I need to move over for something. What the car driver doing that needs to understand, is how dangerous that is. If a truck blows a tire (and no, it's not just retreads that do that) it can throw a chunk of tire out of lethal size and velocity. Alternatively, if a hazard suddenly appears, a truck driver might decide that sideswiping a car alongside is better than hitting something in front.
In the not too distant future, I'm going to put up a post on my blog about cars sharing the road with trucks. In the meantime, you can look at: http://truckied.wordpress.com/2009/01/13/32/ and read item #2.
15 Eideard
You've been somewhat misinformed. Trucks are allowed to use retreads on drive axles, and on trailers, but steer tires must be virgin tires. As far as safety standards for Mexican trucks, they ARE required to meet the same mechanical standards as US trucks when operating on US highways, but enforcement (particularly in Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico) is spotty at best. The real hazards comes from the lack of training, and from lack of knowledge of the English language. The link in my post #12 has further information on the specifics.
23 Heartland51
If you really want to see safety information, try the US DOT's SAFER website. Just for fun, I looked up a Mexican carrier that I saw recently running freight north of the border. One of their drivers got stopped in Ohio, and after all of the equipment violations, he didn't even have a CDL!
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34 TruckieD
Thanks for your response. I know how dangerous it is for cars, I was wondering what was going through the truck driver's head. Thanks.
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To# 34 Truckied
I understand that in very dry, hot climates, where summer temperatures rise well over 110 degrees, tires can get way over heated when traveling the highways. This can result in blow outs and peeling of the rubber. Is this true? We seem to see a lot more peels of rubber here in summer on our roads than in winter.
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To #33 Oldsouth
Your post has left me truly wordless so I cannot respond.
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Like timewaitsfornoman, I just completed a long, cross-country trip sharing the highways with hundreds of trucks. My trip was east to west and back. I did not keep a score card, but I do not think I would be far off at estimating that 1 in 8 rigs I saw west of the Mississippi were from Canada. I was interested in getting an impression of the general state of the economy while on this trip; so I paid attention to transport. Rail and truck transport is a good way to take an economic pulse.
I will say that I felt safe rolling on the roads with trucks from both countries. Of course, I live a couple miles from the busiest border crossing in the world; the Ambassador Bridge linking Detroit, MI and Windsor, ON. The ratio of U.S. and Canada trucks are about par rolling through these two cities. Considering the enormous numbers of trucks and the tonnage hauled annually across the bridge, the U.S. and Canadian trucking industry can be proud of their safety records.
If Mexico has an equal or greater safety record, welcome to the club. If they do not, make it right. Lives are at stake, as well as commerce. A spoiled load costs money. A life cannot be replaced.
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33. OldSouth.
"Who can hurt you the worst-the union thugs (affiliated with the Sicilian Mafia) or the illegal alien organizers (with their ability to call their people onto the streets)? If you deny one, how do you pay off the other?'
This was more or less what I was going to say, and then I read your post. I don't know much about the illegal alien organizers, but I know the Teamsters are thugs, and over-paid thugs.
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#36 aquarizonagal
Yes, that's correct. High temperatures and heavy loads can cause blowouts and tread separation (and not just on trucks). Improper (especially under) inflation, and high speeds, both of which cause additional heating also contribute.
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38, publius.
"If Mexico has an equal or greater safety record, welcome to the club. If they do not, make it right. Lives are at stake, as well as commerce. A spoiled load costs money. A life cannot be replaced."
I think you have this wrong. It is not about safety. It is a turf war.
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This just brings us one step closer to a North American Union and it will happen whether the American public likes it or not.
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This has nothing to do with a trade war or breaking agreements, which need to relooked at, this is a safety and security issue. Truck driver's ability to meet the American highway safety test and the equipment, tractors and trailers that are equal to American laws. The simplest way to avoid this is the Mexican trailers are brought into a trade area and an American driver an tractor take it over the road in America.
Security is the ability to search the incoming trailors. At this time your government would rather spend a few billion on poorly rebuilding and over charging in Iraq then set up and man the required stations in America.
NAFT is an idea that is great on paper, makes great profit for companies and leaves the American consummer with third rate and have to be returned items. I feel the entire idea should be scrapped. In exchange Mexico develops its oil reserves and the manufactoring that moved south comes back into America or be taxed as it comes across. If the labor rates had increased, if the standard of living had increased, NAFTA would have been a success.. As it is the very rich in Mexico have gotten richer and the poor stream to the north for low paying jobs, that are ten times/ a hundred times more money then they could make working for the Mexican/American concerns.
For the next five years it will be a time for Americans to understand thrift and bringing back manufactoring. It will be a time to make the idea made in America as being the very best and what Americans want plus what the rest of the world desires. The next five years will be returning manufactoring to America and you will be able to choose any item in a store with the made in America ticket on it.
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Twice a year I and husband [Personal details removed by Moderator]drive between rural NE Ontario (his legal residence) and central Arizona (my legal residence). During those drives, and also while at each location - though mostly in AZ, we experience a considerable quantity of large truck traffic, which includes large numbers of trucks from the other country. The poor driving seen is almost always that of cars, pick-up trucks and motorcycles; the incidents of drivers of large trucks (with trailers) demonstrating poor driving are very few. Granted that when one of them is in a serious traffic mishap, the results are usually more visually spectacular, even when not more harm-causing, than with only other type vehicles.
Question in my mind is what are the requirements for Canadian truckers to operate on US highways? (And for US commercial trucks on Canadian highways?) Why are not the same arrangements between US and Canada in existence for US and Mexico?
Kitty Antonik Wakfer
Casa Grande AZ USA
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Ref 16 U12831485
I have driven in both Mexico and Canada. I would rather drive in Canada with 6 inches (15cm)of snow and more coming down, then drive on a clear, bright day in Mexico. (With respects to timewaitsfornoman; even Montreal is a safer place to drive)
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publiusdetroit
"west of the Mississippi were from Canada" That's interesting. I saw fewer and fewer Canadian trucks the farther south we went. I wonder if they go through the US to get from one part of Canada to another? Perhaps TruckieD could answer that?
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To#38 Publiusdetroit
I think that the last paragraph of your post hit the nail on the head. Unfortunately, none of this will be easy because our issues with Mexico are so complex. It is easy to say "have adequate trucks with safe well-trained drivers" and not so easy to provide this. We have neglected Mexico to our shame and our sorrow. It will not be easy to resolve this.
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publiusdetroit
Talking about driving in Mexico! A tragedy!
And I was looking to see how Natasha Richardson was doing.
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46 timewaitsfornoman
Actually, the opposite is true. US trucks sometimes use what's called "the land bridge" going through Ontario when traveling from Detroit to Buffalo. There's even a special customs procedure for doing this. This doesn't happen as much as it used to pre-9/11, since border crossing is more of a hassle now.
You see generally fewer as you go south because of cabotage regulations. This basically means, that Canadian (or Mexican) trucks can't haul freight from one place to another within the US -- only from Canada (or Mexico) to the US, then from the US back to Canada (or Mexico). The difficulty of finding freight going directly back (especially nowadays) means most cross-border trucks don't go too far in order to eliminate long deadheads.
You will see lots of Canadian trucks on the corridor from Detroit to Laredo.
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So the hornet's nest has been stirred! Will the unions back down,
or screw up our relations with our southern neighbor, just at a
critical time when we need to work with them on our common problems?
I can't help thinking that everybody (the unions, the Mexicans, etc.)
were watching for this. But, so far, every time that the Obama administration
has catered to the unions on protectionism, they have had their hand slapped.
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TruckieD
Is it the same for US trucks within Canada (or Mexico)?
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#33. OldSouth: "It's one of those delicious quandries of the Democrats: On the one hand, (Democrats have) been shamelessly buying union votes with tax dollars; and on the other hand, buying illegal alien votes with tax dollars."
How do you figure that? Illegal aliens cannot vote any more than legal aliens can. Another of your sweeping and incorrect statements.
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51 timewaitsfornoman
It is in Canada, and presumably in Mexico as well. There are also restrictions on US (and everyone else's) trucks picking up and delivering in the same US state -- you have to have the appropriate permits to haul intrastate vs. interstate freight.
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Ref 41 allmymarbles
Don't get me wrong. I do realize it is a turf war. The important issue for the general public is safety. If Mexico is coming into the fight with a poor safety record, they will not find much support with the U.S. public.
Ref 47 aquarizonagal
I realize your point, too. I was looking at opening an import/export business in Mexico back in the early 80's. My eyes were opened to a whole other world! And I thought I went prepared!
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I believe the top two causes of fatalities on US roads are accidents caused by drunk drivers and accidents between big-rigs and cars, so yes, the safety standards of big-rigs on US roads are very important. Also, remember that every state has its own road standards, speed limits, and weight limits that are checked at weight stations at state lines. Federal standards help keep things fairly uniform nationally because projects built with federal funds require federal road and transportation standards, but not every road, bridge, and highway is up to federal standards.
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In Ref. to 52
Not all states require identification to vote, so getting dead people or illegals to vote wouldnt be too hard.
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54, publius.
"The important issue for the general public is safety. If Mexico is coming into the fight with a poor safety record, they will not find much support with the U.S. public."
Rather the safety question might be used to manipulate the public (if the powers that be determine the teamsters should win).
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So the question hasn't really been answered to my satisfaction. How many US trucks are in Mexico?
Other than that I am pretty much an American Conservative on the issue. Most of the Mexicans I know that would do this kind of work don't even have birth certificates. How are these people supposed to obtain a passport and international drivers license? In most cases documents seemed to be forged. Since the forgery market is high, there is no way to monitor any points these people are given while driving in the US or whether there licenses should be revoked.
According to my understanding, a visa holder is allowed to drive an imported car for one year in the United States. I don't think that kind of rule should be applicable for trucks. They are on the road much more than cars, and are much more hazardous. But does than mean that the inspections will occur in the US? Wouldn't they have to be federal? Is than an encroachment on states rights?
Secondly the work ethic of the Mexican laborer would push them to drive beyond the safe driving/sleep ratio, imposing yet another danger. Are American drivers a danger to Mexicans? No. Are Mexican drivers a danger to Americans? Yes.
If the Mexicans can make a reasonable effort to ensure the persons driving the trucks aren't hard criminals and will engage in safe driving practices, I am for this because like the others said, we made a contract. But they can't, and our safety is more important than promises kept.
For the most part, the left didnt listen when the right was complaining about security concerns on the border, calling it racism. Now we are about to send troops into Mexico because we let the situation get too out of hand. The right wing has real, legitimate political concerns, and listening to left cry racist, racist, racist all the time is getting a little old. The left needs to start engaging the right in real political conversation. If the left can talk to Ahmenijad, whom everyone has got to admit is much more of a xenophobe, then can't it talk to the American right?
I dont know if it counts for anything, but my wife is Venezuelan and a permanent resident in the United States. She was put on the Tascon list after voting against Chavez and forced into leaving. I am a former servicemen and we are both conservative.
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Ref 57 allmymarbles
Exactly.
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Thinking about this, I was a truck driver, and I don't think all that much of the safety of American truck drivers. As to the trucks themselves, they'll have to run scales, so the operators will be inclined to make sure they are at least as roadworthy, not overloaded, etc as American trucks.
On the other hand, I don't think all that much of NAFTA in general, we certainly don't have an equitable trade relationship with Mexico, and I have to wonder...how easy is it for an American truck to run a load through Mexico? I suspect it's not all that easy. As with so much else, this may be a one-way street -- and Mexico's upset that it's not staying that way.
Parenthetically, Mexican truckers have been coming up here for some time. If there's a serious safety problem, statistics would exist to document it. They've always seemed okay to me -- unlike drivers from certain other adjacent countries I could mention.
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It is not only a saftey issue it is a American job issue. If NAFTA allows the Mexican companies to truck there goods into the US a lot of Americans will lose their jobs. The current system has US truckers hauling the freight from warehouses right over the US border. When the Mexican people are allowed to haul the freight to the end destination, then US jobs are lost. Does Mexico allow US truckers to haul freight to the final destinations in Mexico? When lower cost truckers enter the US, then the wages of US truckers will start falling causing more middle class family declines. It is a very complicated issue.
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Twice a year I and husband [Personal details removed by Moderator]drive between rural NE Ontario (his legal residence) and central Arizona (my legal residence). During those drives, and also while at each location - though mostly in AZ, we experience a considerable quantity of large truck traffic, which includes large numbers of trucks from the other country. The poor driving seen is almost always that of cars, pick-up trucks and motorcycles; the incidents of drivers of large trucks (with trailers) demonstrating poor driving are very few. Granted that when one of them is in a serious traffic mishap, the results are usually more visually spectacular, even when not more harm-causing, than with only other type vehicles.
Question in my mind is what are the requirements for Canadian truckers to operate on US highways? (And for US commercial trucks on Canadian highways?) Why are not the same arrangements between US and Canada in existence for US and Mexico?
Kitty Antonik Wakfer AZ USA [2nd attempt]
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Maybe both nation should start by agreeing to work togeher on measures to break the 'mob' connections that so dominate the US-Mexico Freight/Truck companies. Somewhere between 12 and 15% of all lorry freight originating cross-border is unaccounted for and the lost revenues plus illegal goods (not only narcotics, but, people, weapons, consumerables e.g. HiTech electronics, Medicines etc.) have a direct and debilitating effect on both nation's economic and social base.
It would be easier to build trust and co-operation if both nations' Governments and Law enforcement agencies eradicated the criminality that is rife (and certainly not all South to North) in this cross-border economic-trade market.
For Pres Obama's USA to reintroduce stronger protectionist measures it will first have to control the freight-truck businesses that operate pretty much with impunity along the border: They can only do that if they have a reliable partner down Mexico way and that would have to be the Mexican Government. Thus political and inter-agency relations develop and confidence is built.
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- The safety standards thing is just a smokescreen- playing on people's fears and prejudices about Mexicans.
#58 throws up a whole load of problems that don't really count for very much, "Are Mexican drivers a danger to Americans? Yes." What constitutes an appropriate level of danger- presumably one Mexican driver represents a danger to Americans...
The simple fact is that either the US accepts its obligations by NAFTA which it has agreed to, or it must leave. If the Mexicans really were breaking NAFTA- then you can be sure US officials would be making a lot of noise on that point. But they're not.
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I doubt this most recent confrontation between Mexico and the US on this issue will develop into anything. The US has wrongfully reneged on its obligations under NAFTA since its inception and Mexico has patiently persisted demanding compliance.
Mexican truckers seeking to move goods across the border are above average and so is their equipment since they are seeking to engage in long hauls across international borders. Mexican truckers are not seeking any exemption from regulations applied to truckers in the US (or Canada), and anticipate being subject to the same laws any other trucker operating in the US or Canada would be.
US importers receiving petrochemical products by truck from Mexico have long remarked on the outstanding quality and professionalism of Mexican truckers and their equipment which is described as superior to that regularly available in the US.
The Teamsters in the US have engaged in a campaign to discredit and frighten the citizenry with lurid tales of reckless Mexican truckers in uninsured dilapidated rigs dangerously careening on bald tires through peaceful neighborhoods across the US. What they really are worried about is the competition from Mexican truckers who aren't in their union and will work much more cheaply for pesos instead of dollars.
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I've read the problems associated with the current issue and I've looked at some of the corresponding comments too. I haven't seen many viable sollutions, so I would like to offer a few, to be kicked around. I agree that we must uphold our part of the N.A.F.T.A deal with Mexico. A deal is a deal. As usual, I notice, the good ole Teamsters have their noses in it. The last thing we need is the MOB being involved in Government affairs. I think I have a viable solution though. In response to the safety concerns with the ill-trained Mexican drivers, I suggest this: privately opperated tractor trailer truck driving training schools, in Mexico, as is the case here in the U.S.A. I'm a recent graduate of one myself. These are 5 month long training schools that do a great job in providing people with the knowledge that they will need to safely navigate the roads of the U.S.A. Since it is apparent that the N.A.F.T.A. agreement is here to stay, there must be training given to the Mexican drivers to meet the rules of our roads. This is essential. I would think that someone in Mexico would have the resources to open some of these schools which are obviously needed. If the money cannot be found within the private sector, then possibly the Mexican Government can opperate them.
As far as the safety of the trucks is concerned, I feel that this is a challenge, as it is IMPERATIVE that all trucks entering the U.S.A meet our guidelines for safety. There must not be any way around this. My suggestion is this: A joint venture between the Mexican and the U.S Geovernment to provide special N.A.F.T.A. trucks that would be maintained, equally, by both Governments. Mexicans would unload their cargos at the border, have their cargos inspected, and transfer their loads to the N.A.F.T.A. trucks to go onto their final destinations within the U.S.A. Stations, that would need to be set up at the border to handle the transfers, would employ hundreds, if not thousands of new workers. The truck building industry would benefit too as new orders would come in. They would benefit on replacement parts too, farther down the road.
This is my solution on the subject. There are other ways which might be viably better though. If anyone has any comments, please feel free. I am always willing to debate.
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I'm not going to pretend to know a great deal about this issue, but why doesn't NAFTA instigate some form of registration for Truckers and their trucks? If they are a qualified driver, and their truck meets saftey expectations, they get put on a register and are allowed to cross the border. Companies that employ truckers must make sure they are on this register if they want to cross the border.
I'm thinking something like the Corgi register here in the UK for boiler installations etc.
Of course I could be way of base and this would never work/has already been tried/already exists.....
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One thing that nobody looks to see is that while Mexico is drowning with drugs, USA just closes the border line to mexican trucks without thinking that this situation is going to do more people change to drug labor.
If black markets are increasing on all wide world, it is not because people in poor countries are irrational or bad, but because rich countries are closing all options to have a better quality of life if working honestly.
If you are a poor guy from a poor country, in this case Mexico, the option you have is surviving miserably all your life with an honest job, be corrupt or work in the black market (drug dealer, kidnapper, etc etc). USA since always has reduced the market with Mexico because lots of things and at the same time they are constantly sending the "american dream" to mexicans, so by logic, people with no money neither jobs are going to do what they can to have money. That is why the increasing of drug market in lot of poor countries.
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It is ironic that Justin Webb failed to included vital information reported on the BBC Español site nine hours earlier:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/latin_america/newsid_7947000/7947392.stm
This article clarifies how the Mexican government will deal with the US Congress's decision to abandon the cross-border pilot program: Mexico will apply higher tariffs to 90 American products that were previously covered under NAFTA. These tariffs will affect products from 40 different states and cost Americans approximately $2.4 billion. What stimulus package will off-set that chunk of change?
Furthermore, many Americans are eager to deplore Mexican roads and vehicles without understanding that their standards are not the highest in North America. Whilst road safety is a huge concern, it also smells of protectionism. I tried to import a car I bought and drove in the US for three years into Canada, but I was refused because the safety standards used to build that car (and numerous others) in the US were inferior to Canadian safety standards. Does that mean that American cars and trucks should be banned from Canadian roads? I think not.
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#69, Trilingual1:
There are many other issues here besides the road conditions in Mexico. They are outlined in my previous post: #66. Also, I would be curious in knowing what kind of car you had that was denied entrance to Canada. They import most of their autos from us or countries from where we buy too.
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In my home state of Oregon, Los Angelinos are notorious for their aggressive driving. But after having lived in San Diego, just 10 miles from the Mexican border, I must say I felt safer in Los Angeles. But the worst drivers in North America are NOT Mexicans, they are in and around Washington D.C. If you ever want to see an example of a city thoroughly messed up by bureaucratic buffoons, just try driving through our nation’s capital.
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If you were denied entry while attempting to drive into Canada it wasn't your car that was the problem, it was you.
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#71, Greysqiirrel1867:
I have to agree with you there. I lived in D.C. for 3 months. It was the most crime ridden city with the worst drivers I have EVER seen in my life. I drive to New York, Boston, and many other large cities. Nothing is as bad as D.C. is though.
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The real reasons for the latest spat has little to do with truck safety or the driving skills of Mexican drivers. There are plenty of trucks in US road with unsafe tires or brakes, and reckless and drunk drivers can be found everywhere. The reasons for this ridiculous past are the anxiety that many Americans feel as a result of our economic woes and rising unemployment, and xenophobia.
The "trucking crisis" instigated by the Teamsters and vigilantes is one of several excuses, ranging from drug cartels to tainted jalapeno peppers, to attack Mexican migrants and put pressure on the US government to legislate immigration reform, which will only satisfy the "Caucasian" majority if it involves expelling Hispanics from the USA. The tens of thousands of Eastern Europeans that enter the USA via the Canadian border every year and compete for employment sought by Americans are OK. The only targets are unskilled farm, hospitality, construction, garment workers and meat packers working for less than minimum wage without benefits.
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"What is forgotten in this is that according to the NAFTA trade agreement, which is only an agreement and not a binding treaty"
Guess what, most of the international trade we engage in is based on agreements, identical or very similar to NAFTA. Considering the fact that we are probably more dependent on trade and the global economy than most other nations it seems logical to assume that if we forfeit our obligations, whether contractual or not, we are bound to be the biggest losers.
I live close to I-95, a major highway on the Eastern seaboard. Trucks are often involved in major accidents on this road, many breakdown, and tires disintegrate often because they are not replaced on a timely manner to save money. I can assure you all that barring a serious case of metamorphosis these trucks and their drivers are not Mexican.
If the issue is concern over Mexican driving skills and their trucks (I believe that is just the latest excuse to demonize Mexicans and divert attention from our economic woes), change tractors and drivers at the border and the problem is solved. Obviously, American trucks and drivers heading South will have to do the same...
As I said in my previous post, this "crisis" is influenced by US unemployment and xenophobia. Immigration reform is needed, but the draconian final solutions espoused by some are not only inhumane. but would cause irreparable harm to our economy. I haven't met too many fellow Americans willing to work in farms for $30 a day with no benefits, and if employers raise wages and provide benefits to make those backbreaking jobs appealing to some, the consumer will pay the price or we will have to import our fruits and veggies from...Mexico!
Yes, immigration reform is badly needed, but it must be done fairly to ensure migrants, employers and consumers benefit from it. On the issue of drug cartels and violence, obviously, that is a serious matter that must be addressed, but it involves more than resolve on the part of the Mexican government. We must stop the flow of weapons to Mexico and, above all, we must stop buying and consuming drugs. Let's face it, how long do you all think it will take to find a different route to bring drugs into the USA if we manage to stop drug trafficking and other contraband through Mexico?
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Ref 71, Squirrel
"But the worst drivers in North America are NOT Mexicans, they are in and around Washington D.C."
I second that. I lived in Montgomery County, Maryland, and worked at the Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt for over 20 years. I comuted on the Washington Beltway every day and I am still amazed I survived the experience. Well, I confess that I often took small windy roads through Maryland's beautiful meadows to enjoy the scenery... and improve my chances of surviving the ordeal!
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Thus far in the trucking queue, we have -- screeds aside -- safety issues, human trafficking, NAFTA and Mexico's internal drug war, which threatens to spread (or has already spread) across our border.
I believe these things are all coming together in the overused cliche of a perfect storm for both the Obama Administration and for the signatories to NAFTA. Given the givens, I doubt the US is either willing or able to commit military strength to assist Mexico in putting down the cartels...not unless we very suddenly redefine our national interest in Iraq and Afghanistan and reverse course so quickly that the exit of troops makes an audible "whoosh." So, perhaps our strategically thinking President has quietly nudged all these ducks into conjunction at this time to allow for negotiated resolution and enforcement of outstanding NAFTA issues as well as some spotlighted attention and aid for the Mexican government from our NAFTA partners to the north?
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I forgot to mention one issue here that no one has touched on. In Mexico, all motor vehicle accidents are considered criminal offenses whereas here in the states, they are considered motor vehicle offenses, for the most part. It would seem to me that some sort of conflict could arrise from this should Americans drive there en masse.
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Has anyone considered how strange it is to suddenly have a Mexican trucking crisis so critical that it could derail an agreement signed in 1992 by Presidents Bush, Salinas and PM Mulroney?
It seems a bit suspicious that with the exception of the traditional vigilante and labor unions uproar over a trade agreement that includes Mexico (no problem with the Canadian part), and Mexican trucks driven by Mexican drivers have entered the US on a daily basis without impediment for years, except perhaps for the usual customs checks at the border, we suddenly discovered after almost 17 years that the quality of their American/Canadian built trucks and their driving skills are a major threat to the safety of the American people.
I wonder how many Teamsters are unemployed...
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#77, Carolinalady:
That is why I think it is NECESSARY to model our drug laws after those in Holland. 70% of our prison population would vanish. We would have 40% of the drug usage that we currently have. The drug cartels in South America would COLLAPSE over night. It is a win, win situation. The current drug laws don't work for the same reason that prohibition did not work.
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Dominick (79),
I second your suspicions.
Peace and a reduction in goods-miles
ed
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60 I have been thinking the same thing about the trucks.
Here in Oregon maybe we do not see so many but I wouldn't know.
78 Cadrolls
Wow.
I think that is a very good point.
Well said.
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Thinking of europe I wonder how all those trucks move.
what are their rules?
lots of different manufactures countries .etc.
Look at american cars and you have to wonder why people would think them safe and the same with trucks.
In Europe turn signals (or indicators not blinkers) are yellow and are a clearer indicater than a red flashing .Which the brake lights do.
Most americans it seems hit the turn signal as they turn .having already breaked. the signal is redundant and hardly seen.
this one change in the lighting colour would provide more life savings that the ban on mexicans I am sure.
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AndyPost (#5), actually, we do not have to live up to the NAFTA agreement if it isn't working to our satisfaction, because it allows participants to "opt out." A good business deal is one which every participant is happy with. If the NAFTA agreement is hurting the US, then we should renegotiate aspects of it, or drop out.
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re 33 oldsouth
I go with arizonagal o this one
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http://www.oxfamamerica.org/newsandpublications/press_releases/archive2003/art5911.html
The issues cut both ways. I always thought the Mexican gov't could do more for it's own citizens. I've worked in many restaurants, and have shared the lunchtable w/ many Mexicans, and one thing they all say is the gov't leaves them to their own misery. If you were a farmer, and your crop fails, well thats it, and when labor is cheaper in indonesia ,or China, well that's where the factories go. Agreements can be changed or modified, as cicumstances change, right? I claim to be no expert though. With the drug wars going on at the border, that most certainly must change how we are viewing this trucking issue. There needs to be a serious regroup.
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#82, Happylaze:
I agree but, U.S. car manufacturers don't because they feel that by adding the European color amber lights for the turn signals, at the rear, it would limit their design possibilities. In some ways, I tend to agree as many of our car designs were never designed with that type of incorporation. As a Cadillac owner, I would find it out of step for the design of my car or the basic design in general. We did invent some pretty good safety features though. It was because of Sen. Dole's wife that we have the third (center) light for the brakes. That is why is is sometimes referred to as the "dole" light. That one safety feature alone is credited to saving thousands of lifes. We also invented the 5-10 M.P.H. bumpers too. They're good for keeping our insurance rates down.
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As Bien points out rules of road building vary.
On I5 in Oregon the exits are marked in an appaling manner and the local highways are worse.
In towns the sign for the road is the OTHER side of the junction.No warning and no help except to say "you missed it"
The road marking and sign-age combined with the junctions layout are the most dangerous I have seen.
That includes Bulgaria.
The highway department has a lot to answer for.
Red light signals are the other side of the junction.
Some standardisation would be helpfull but not to the rules they have at the moment.
Now I am not saying British roads were marked that well but they are better on the motorways where high speeds are the norm.
I drove to Portland to demo (frog making) and watched several times as drivers suddenly saw the exit sign and swerved across 2 lanes and over the solid white lines that edge the exit.
Now they could have stayed on the road and carried on to hope they found a safer way off the road.
But I blame the road designers.
Traffic lights.
Here in Oregon they seem to be set on a standard 3 second yellow- no matter what the speed of the road.
(note in Italy they just had a case wher the cops got busted for changing the signal from 5 to 3 seconds so they got more "light runners" on their cameras and more money.
I apply my brakes in a safe manner as soon as the light goes yellow.(at the speed limit)
and many many times I Have to break excessively hard to make the car stop before the red.
This encourages people to run it.
In a truck that is more dangerous.
I certainly would not like to do the sme braking in a loaded truck.
I feel for the truck drivers at lights.
Russian roulette between safety and the ticket.
These things should be addressed before starting a trade war. they would help all americans all the time.
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carolinalady (#77), actually, the US is already providing assistance to Mexico in its efforts to combat drug gangs, including providing military assistance (but not troops). Here's a short newspaper article on the subject:
http://www.kansascity.com/444/story/1090555.html
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#80 Cad
I agree with you with the relaxation of the drug laws. I believe Holland had a real bad heroin problem in the seventies and the relaxation of the drug laws helped eradicate the problem. The degrading of cannabis in the UK from Class B to Class C (the latter means it is not an arrestable offence for possession for personal use) has, it has been claimed, reduced the number of those smoking it. On a separate note, the number of those contracting mental health problems due to smoking remains the same. Mmmmm . . .
I'm surprised the tobacco companies haven't lobbied Congress for legalisation of cannabis - they'll make a killing.
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86
Do we want"classic" american design or safe cars?
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The critique of Oregon highways in post #87 is the most ridiculous thing I've read here in quite awhile. I haven't been to Bulgaria, so would not make that comparison, but I'm from Oregon, have driven in Oregon for decades, and have driven through most of the states in the US as well, on secondary roads as well as freeways. The Oregon highway system is among the best in the country in all respects, in my experience.
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71, GreySquirrel: "But the worst drivers in North America are NOT Mexicans, they are in and around Washington D.C."
As I mentioned above, Virginia drivers are simply dreadful, and these are the ones driving in and around Washington, D.C. I lived in D.C. and Maryland for years and every time I saw a particularly bad driver, the car had Virginia plates. Then I was living in Virginia when my son got his driver's license and discovered what may be the cause of this driving problem. On the day of my son's 16th birthday, his learner's permit magically became a driver's license. No test, written or behind-the-wheel, required at the DMV. Having passed high school driver's ed is the only requirement, and if the instructor flunked anyone he had to keep on teaching them at no extra charge. So no one flunked. Great system, huh? Far more dangerous than Mexican truck drivers, in my opinion.
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87, happylaze -
Did you ever see the movie Starman? "I watched you," says Jeff Bridges the space alien learning to drive. "Red light means stop, green light means go, yellow light means go very, very fast."
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NAFTA is a complicated subject, and I am not taking a position yet on the question raised by Mr. Webb, but here is a report from the Economic Policy Institute on NAFTA which I intend to read before making up my mind:
http://www.epi.org/publications/entry/bp173/
Disclosure: EPI describes itself as "non-partisan" but some, such as Wikipedia, describe it as having a "center-left" orientation.
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happylaze
We noticed the same on our drive south. One exit sign well in advance then, right before/at the exit, a number only. Panic, panic, "Is that the exit? What was the number?" etc.
Not saying ours are much better (although believe exits are well indicated on what we call autoroutes), as most are in French only, so Good Luck. If west is wanted turn "O" (west/ouest).
Were told by a truck driver of 17yrs. that NC has the worst drivers. Since the closest we came to having an accident was to almost rear-end a NC car that had stopped in the passing lane! for no apparent reason or with any sense of urgency!, we believed him.
Driving so-called "around" Washington on I 95 was a bit of a challenge!
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I find it interesting that the trucker wars have become such a big controversy on this blog when Americans are hardly focused on this issue. They are almost entirely consumed with anger over the AIG exec bonuses and politicians on both sides of the isle are joining in on the good old American Populist fervor; didnt I say some time ago on a different topic that America was far more likely to go Populist than Socialist?
What we're learning is that these bonuses to derivative making execs who led AIG to the brink of collapse were paid millions of dollars in bailout money; after getting the money, many of them left the company, and interestingly enough, many of those who left the company were citizens of the UK who took their money with them back to the UK!
The whole thing is outrageous, but the sad part is that AIG-now 80% controlled by the Feds and led by a new federally handpicked CEO-may need more money to keep operating. These bonuses have taken the frustration and outrage of the American people aimed at a faceless Wall Street and directed it squarely on AIG-the new face of corporate greed and corruption. It is said that America is a slumbering giant; well, the giant has re-awakened as a Populist with a pitch fork in hand-Uncle Sam and Lady Liberty better jump on his back and manage him or get out of the way.
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Ref 85, MC
"...and when labor is cheaper in indonesia ,or China, well that's where the factories go."
Sounds familiar doesn't it?
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To #66 Cadrolls
Some practical suggestions from someone who seems to have the experience in trucking but not the vested interests. I will not debate you. Thank you for your post.
To #75 Saintdominick
You have raised an issue for me regarding the xenophobia that is hurting farmers here, especially the smaller family farms. We have been struggling here to keep our small enterprise viable because we cannot get adequate help. We do not rely on this venture to survive. It is a "labor of love" that we have taken up in our retirement because we so believe in sustainable agriculture and feeding people locally with organic and healthy foods.
Adequate labor has dried up because of the insanity here over immigration. I want a fair and equitable Guest Worker policy. We provide both breakfast and lunch and pay well over your estimate of $30 per day. (I marched with Cesar Chavez for the rights of farm workers and treat people with dignity and respect!) We have few takers now. It IS very hard work. Apparently, many good, loyal Americans do not like that kind of labor even if they do not have jobs!
Sorry for the rant:
I am so sick with this whole thing and the utter stupidity of so many xenophobes that are driving our relations with Mexico into the ground. It hurts me, it hurts you, it hurts everyone. I know that my view is one-sided and simplistic but if someone in Mexico wants a job and I have one to provide why can I not provide it? They are my neighbors, after all and a good community takes care of its neighbors.
Sorry to all,
Too emotional for intellectual debate. I am finished on this thread. Forgive me.
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#86. cadrolls1: "U.S. car manufacturers don't because they feel that by adding the European color amber lights for the turn signals, at the rear, it would limit their design possibilities. In some ways, I tend to agree as many of our car designs were never designed with that type of incorporation. As a Cadillac owner, I would find it out of step for the design of my car or the basic design in general."
How could the change of colour adversely effect the design? British designed cars suffer no loss of acceptability by having amber signals. A 2009 STS has vertical brake and turn signals, one of those could easily be amber with no effect on the overall design. And of course, many vehicles sold in the USA do have amber turn signals front and back. Perhaps someone in the UK could check to see if imported Cadillacs (and others) are equipped with amber signals. If it's good enough for a Bentley (a superior car) then it should be good enough for a Caddie.
"It was because of Sen. Dole's wife that we have the third (center) light for the brakes."
Not exactly; Elizabeth Dole was Secretary of Transportation, whose department implemented the requirements of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in 1986. Before that, a number of US built cars had them, Thunderbirds, the Olds Toronado and Buick's Riviera. Not Mrs Dole's brainchild as is implied.
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#30 David_Cunard wrote:
Wink or not, the generalisation is nonsense. Americans have been driving far longer than their European counterparts - and better. Mexican drivers are considered to be "aggressive" in their driving habits, ignoring road signs and highway etiquette. Come to Los Angeles before you make such sweeping judgements.
______
Generalisations are usually nonsense, agreed, and as I said I'm not familiar with Mexican drivers.
However, after driving cars through most Western European countries, and also through some parts of the US - west coast top to bottom, including SF, LA, Seattle, San Diego; Miami, New Orleans, NYC including the outskirts, etc., I still believe US drivers are the worst I ever wittnessed.
Lack of situational awareness, obedience of basic traffic rules and vehicle control.
Besides, the car was invented in Europe, so arguably Europeans have been driving 'longer', historically speaking . Only mass production of cars started earlier in the US.
Not that it would make a difference.
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Can't think why a trade agreement should be static for any great length of time. World's a little upside down at the moment - all things must adjust. I do wonder, however, at the extent of the economic crisis - I'm not aware of any great jolt to supply and demand of actual goods (apart from maybe manipulated supply of oil) - seems to be a fantasy jolt based on misrepresentation of the value of financial institution paper/banking on debt. Were so many jobs dependent on activity in the credit industry? Or were all people skimming too much in order to live high for the moment and leave the future to the loans? Psycho-illogical.
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#99, David Cunard:
I stand corrected on the Dole light. On the issue of having amber lights at the rear however, I still feel that it would limit some of the design possibilities. Cadillacs have always been known by the vertical tail light design in the rear. I suppose an amber light treatment could be incorporated in the basic design, but I think, as does G.M., that this would change the look of the car. I have no issues of it being used on some of the other cars. It looks okay to me on European cars. It looks well on the Bentley and the Rolls too. I think it was a travesty for the English to allow Rolls to slip out of its hands. I can't think of any greater loss for the English than that. For almost a hundred years, Rolls Royce was a staple of English engineering. When one mentioned England, the first to come to most people's minds were: The Monarchy, Rolls Royce, the Royal Navy and tea and crumpets; in that order. Thankfully, the Monarchy is still there. I don't understand why the British Government didn't step in and provide Rolls an interest-free loan to make the updates that would have saved it from being sold. To me, it's not that I don't like it in German hands. It's that it's not in the hands of its rightful owners. It is still a beautiful automobile though. I've been in a few of them. There is nothing like the aroma of the Rolls's interior: it is truly an experience only a few will ever know.
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#100. U12831485: "I'm not familiar with Mexican drivers. . . after driving cars through most Western European countries, and also through some parts of the US - west coast top to bottom, including SF, LA, Seattle, San Diego; . . "
If you drove on the freeways of California you much have come across some drivers from south of the border - San Diego is just a hop, skip and a jump from the border.
"the car was invented in Europe, so arguably Europeans have been driving 'longer', historically speaking . Only mass production of cars started earlier in the US."
Yes, they were made available to the masses much earlier and were routinely driven far more people in the US than in Europe. Car ownership in the UK has grown exponentially in the last 30/40 years at a time when Americans were enjoying their land yachts and cheap fuel. The postwar years were a time of milk and honey and even prewar the automobile was a very familiar sight, owned by ordinary people rather than the wealthy. It's like most consumables, TV, refrigerators, microwave ovens - an almost endless list, were available in the US before Europe. No conventional war on the home front made such a difference in life between the US and elsewhere, and car ownership was the most obvious manifestation of "the good life". How things have changed!
timewaitsfornoman - what's a "passing lane"? We can overtake on both sides of a vehicle.
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#98, Aquarizonagal:
I take it that you are speaking from the Union's point of view. For professional drivers, getting a chance to drive in other coutries is a treat. Why deny that to the Mexican drivers just for our own selfish reasons? The free flow of goods from Mexico and Canada have been a benefit to consumers here in the states. Sometimes, it is better to give up a little so everyone can enjoy their lifes a little more. Eventually, because of N.A.F.T.A., the standard of living will go up in Mexico while not adversely affecting too many here in States. This is a good thing for those who complain about illegal immigration. If the Mexicans are doing well, they don't have to come here for a better life.
I would think that most of the people in this country would, by now, cite the Unions at the big three for much of the trouble that they are facing now. True, there are other, perhaps more important factors involved, such as poor decisions at the top of these companies. Our cars used to be the very pinnacle of design. Now, they are rather boring to look at. While the big three made good profits, as they turned their attention to the S.U.V./mini van market, the foriegn auto makers got a foothold on the economy car market though. Trying, at this juncture, to get people out of their Toyotas, and Hondas, will be an extreme challange to the big three as these cars have an extremely loyal following.
I feel that the big three need to start offering some bolder designs, more fuel efficient models, more hybreds, and get new advertising agencies. When I watch the evening news, I see ads from Toyota and Honda but none from G.M., Ford, or Chrysler. The big three need to build cars that can go 200,000 trouble free miles as some of the foriegn cars do. The problem is that 68% of G.M.s profits come from replacement parts. If they change that formula, they would have to either raise their prices (making their cars less competitive in price) or cut union wages. That is where the problem with the unions come into play. They don't want to make any concessions EVEN if it means going out of business. At one time, the unions were good for this country. Because of them, we have a middle class and good working conditions. Now, however, they seem to be as bad as the people who they initially fought against. The average worker at G.M. is making $61.00/hour vs $30.00/ hour at Toyota. True, the executives should be more willing to forego their multi-million dollar bonuses too. That is not helping matters much. When you combine these factors though, along with boring designs (you cannot sell the sizzle if you have no sizzle to sell), and poor advertising, you understand why they are finding it difficult to compete with the foriegn competition.
I cannot speak enough about the poor advertising of the big three though. It as APPALLINGLY BAD! They have simply forgotten HOW to market their cars. Where are the commercials that show side by side comparisons between riding comfort between the American cars vs the Japanese models? Everything now is either geared to performance or economy. Not ALL Americans would be so willing to get into a foriegn car if they knew that there was a more comfortable American alternative. Where are the blindfold tests between Cadillac vs Mercedes or Cadillac vs Lexus in terms of riding comfort? Auto magazines don't seem to be of much help either. They show cars going around test tracks, through lane change manuever cones, and forget that most accidents don't have a tinker's dam to do with the car's handling capabilities. Most accidents happen so fast (that is why they are called accidents) that the car's handling capability does NOT enter into the reason for the accident.
To illustrate this point: the 1976 Mercury Marquis Brougham was considered by many in the auto magazine world as one of the worst handling cars on the road. It was big and heavy (5,000 lbs.) with long soft springs. It leaned heavily on the corners, and it plowed its front tires into what is called heavy understeer when pushed to its limits. What did the auto magazines conveniently forget to mention? The big Mercury had one of the lowest death-fatalities-per-mile-driven rating of any car on the road. Why? Because people usually drive their cars within the limits of their suspensions. True also is the fact that many older people bought that car. By comparison though, not too long ago, the Chevrolet Camaro was cited as one of the worst car when it came to the number of deaths per mile driven. It had a performance suspension. True also is the fact that many younger people bought these cars.
Well, I didn't mean to get off the trucking subject to that extent but it is, in a way, interconnected. Sometimes, I feel that smoke is coming from my ears because I am so mad when I think of what our car industry has become compared to what it once was though.
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91. At 5:27pm on 18 Mar 2009, Gary_A_Hill wrote:
The critique of Oregon highways in post #87 is the most ridiculous thing I've read here in quite awhile. I haven't been to Bulgaria, so would not make that comparison, but I'm from Oregon, have driven in Oregon for decades, and have driven through most of the states in the US as well, on secondary roads as well as freeways. The Oregon highway system is among the best in the country in all respects, in my experience.
---------------------------
Gary . REALLY.
sorry you may be so defensive . so OREGUN, but you are not commenting on the signage just the fact that you are offended someone said something bad abotu Oregon.
Bulgaria does have signs in front of the junction.
Your comment just goes to show why it will never change and why America will never change.
Try driving down a motorway.
At 1 mile sign. 1/2 mile sign 300 yards sign counting down to 100 then sign.
all of which you will no doubt say is because they are thick . where as I would say it allows for going past a tractor trailer at the time .
The cats eyes let you see the exit clearly in the rain.
You have NO experience in driving in the UK it would seem. to me. local rural signs can be hard to find ,street names, the road number is normally visible.
If you have no experience whatso ever with the signage rules which if you compare the two becomes obvious.
Now travel around at the speed limit without ABS breaks and check those junction timings. I have.
So really Get bent and twisted all you like.
Your state system is trash and if it is the best in the states then the states on the whole (which I cannot confirm because I have your word for it) have a dangerouly badly thought out road system.
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103 lol but point made.
In oregon it is illegal to undertake but the cops cannot enforce it because of all the Californians and washingtonians driving through who do not take the signs at face value....because they are not there, just signs saying "slow traffic keep right"
102 Cad are you saying american designers can't work around what all of europe and russia worked around. Some of them must have made nice cars.
99 DC MOT rules require yellow be installed I think. I know we had it done when I was a kid on our olds gassuser.
95
you see even if i do seem to attract Gary's state patriotic rant.Nice example. shows that all fed highways are crud.
PS language makes no difference. order of sign and clarity does
93 no
but after the fall of the communists in bulgaria
Green meant Go
Yellow meant wait and red meant GO
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#102. cadrolls1: "I think it was a travesty for the English to allow Rolls to slip out of its hands."
Amen to that! I've not driven in one but there are plenty of BMW version around Los Angeles and to my mind they no longer look like a Rolls; the grille is so altered that it no longer has the appearance of what was once considered The Best Car in the World. One day BMW will sell the Rolls-Royce unit and then perhaps it might return to its former grandeur. At least VW has kept the Bentley style intact - for the present. (As an aside, a dear friend of mine in Winchester sniffed "Only builders buy a Rolls, those with money have a Bentley.")
With regard to crumpets - even they appear to have gone out of fashion; take Afternoon Tea in any London hotel and you'll not find a crumpet, toasted tea-cake, hot buttered toast or anchovy toast. It's all "cream teas" which were once the staple of the West Country and thus a holiday treat. Having enjoyed teatime for more years than I care to recall, the institution has become a culinary caricature, appealing primarily to tourists. Whoever heard of a glass of Champagne with tea - at fourteen pounds a pop!
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#106, Happylaze:
"Cad are you saying american designers can't work around what all of europe and russia worked around. Some of them must have made nice cars."
Not at all. I don't, personally, see the need to have the amber lights here as I am not aware of any problems from their absence. When I see the lights on the car ahead of me start to blink, I know that they are getting ready to turn. It is EXTREMELY rare to see a car with a short in the tail light that might confuse a following driver. As for the cars made in Russia, and I have been to their websites and have old articles from earlier tests of them and so I have to say this: They are underpowered, underengineered, give some of the worst crash tests scores ever recorded (I won't mention the early Holden; YIKES!), and they are just completely out of date in terms of design.
I just don't see the need for the amber colored turn signal color in the rear. I don't know of, or have ever heard of, any accidents because of it not being there. Quite frankly, now that I think of it, they are EXTREMELY annoying when I am behind one at a traffic light at night because they usually annoyingly bright when they are activated.
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103 David_Cunard
"Passing Lane" I've driven in Los Angeles - so noticed! Actually I have mentioned it before - 5 lanes of traffic all going the same speed. Most frustrating for us "passers."
Although my aunt and uncle in the UK in the 70s had a nice two story semi-detached home with a large garden, they did not have either a telephone or car. There were fabulously funny programs on the telly though!! I don't think I have ever laughed so hard.
happylaze
"slow traffic keep right" I believe also "No trucks in the left lane." We finally decided that drivers knowing they were not in fact driving a truck thought they could do whatever they liked in the left lane. And the one important sign inevitably was on the far side of a transport truck. "What did it say?" "I don't know there was a truck in the way." And pictograms of trucks tipping over to indicate a sharp off ramp. No kidding! Good road surface, no question about that. Far superior to ours which are third world-like.
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#107, David Cunard:
Hopefully, one day, the Government of Britain will see fit to buy Rolls Royce back regardless of the price. I feel that Rolls would have had no problem selling their cars here in the States if they had been advertised. It was against the wishes of Rolls to advertise though, out of tradition. Most of the people who could afford the price of the Rolls or Bentley simply forgot that they existed. We are bombarded with commercials from Lexus, Infinity, Acura, Mercedes, BMW, Audi, and people who have the funds forget about Rolls Royce and Bentley. I suppose it's water under the bridge now.
Someday, I would love to own one.
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#108. At 03:50am on 19 Mar 2009, cadrolls1: "When I see the lights on the car ahead of me start to blink, I know that they are getting ready to turn."
Half the time (or more) the lights are activated as the vehicle turns or a mere couple of feet before so doing. Drivers here don't seem to realise that they are supposed to indicate what they are about to do 100 feet before turning - and there are some who never use a turn signal.
#109. timewaitsfornoman: "Passing Lane" I've driven in Los Angeles - so noticed! Actually I have mentioned it before - 5 lanes of traffic all going the same speed. Most frustrating for us "passers."
And what speed was that? If you were in the rush hours, overtaking/passing could be very difficult, but during the day and after-business hours there would be no problem. Look at all the high speed chases which we see on the local "news" broadcasts. There's plenty of space to pass - on either side of a vehicle, not just the one permitted by UK law.
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Cheap Labor?
Mexicans are forcing their will on the United States. They have organizations that muscle $13/hr for day labor in Chicago. And you better pay up. They also have street gangs remember.
My town has been taken over by these people and forced the town to pass laws prohibiting the checking of immigration and even the helping of federal authorities to enforce federal laws in my town. "SAFE SPACE" they call it.
They have also put an organization called the Interfaith Leadership Movement in the law to oversee the complaints made by immigrants. The group is run out of a Catholic Church to give it legitimacy. I've actually overheard people conspiring to "get money" by making false complaints against the town and the police.
My porch has gang members using drugs on it every night and I can't get rid of them no matter how many times the police are called. The schools are over 90% hispanic and the town has much abandoned property used by gangs. 80% of the elementary schools have their students listed as low income yet their parents always seem to be driving late model SUVs that cost between $40-50,000. Where do they get the money?
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111, David: "and there are some who never use a turn signal."
Even here in the land of mostly good drivers (Vermont) I've noticed more and more people not bothering to use turn signals, not turning on their lights in heavy rain and fog so you can't even see them until you're practically on top of them, tailgating on curvy country roads where you might have to brake suddenly for a deer or moose.
The interstate here has signs that state clearly "Keep right except to pass," which is kind of funny because there's so little traffic. Every few miles there are turn-arounds between north and south bound lanes where the state police lurk, waiting for a speeder in either direction, and I guess a perfectly clear left lane makes it easier for them to enter the interstate. It is illegal for anyone else to use the turn-arounds, which is frustrating because it's so far between exits that if for some reason you miss an exit (can't see it through the driving snow) you've got a looong way to go.
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Cad you say "When I see the lights on the car ahead of me start to blink, I know that they are getting ready to turn."
Like I said. you don't get it.(not trying to be rude)
these lights are yellow for a reason.
Just as your dole light was for safety these yellow lights are.
at high speeds every second makes a difference.
Take a dodge RAM tail lights and see the obstruction to that single red bulb of the "RAM" logo so that 50% of the light is prevented from leaving the light.
"I just don't see the need for the amber colored turn signal color in the rear. I don't know of, or have ever heard of, any accidents because of it not being there. Quite frankly, now that I think of it, they are EXTREMELY annoying when I am behind one at a traffic light at night because they usually annoyingly bright when they are activated."
But you don't even notice the red ones.
this Kinda proves my point. they are more noticeable. as for the brightness. most modern cars seem to have excessively bright lights from the point of view of other drivers.
Illegally bright in many cases.
designed to be better light and safer they are only for the driver.
put another big relative in the back and they dazzle all.
Dip don't Dazzle.
Oh and where are the rear fog lights on US cars.
I have tried both and yet again am told I am crazy (probably anti american) for trying to point out what will make people safer.(not by you , very civilised). It grates and is a perfect example of the real problem with america , They will not listen to ANY criticism , no matter how politely put.
One reason I am rarely Polite.
(note UK didn't want to go metric even though metric makes WAY more sense, same "thinkers" got in the way there) .
110 on the rolls . I too would love one . I think it would make a pretty chicken coop but the embodied energy could never be excused.;)
111 DC please do not drive in Oregon in the left lane all the way. Here You are NOT allowed to overtake on the right.
I find the use of the term "blinker" to be stupid. as people turn they Blink, whats the point.
We should start a campaign to INDICATE the intent before the action.
Oh wait that was what I WAS doing when an Oregon Cop Gave me a ticket for "not using the turn signal.
Yellow lights and all.
But then I had confused his little head by also indicating a few yards in advance of where I should have(and stopped when I realised that the exit was not at that point, restarting when it was clear where the turn was. (SIGNAGE)
But the hand rolled cig I was smoking was more important than the bugger behind me(obstructing said officers view)who failed to indicate and tried overtaking in a turn lane while i was turning.
To me the cops are as big a part of the problem with their concentration on looking for cars with warrants or "suspicious activity" or speeding tickets.
For a country based on the Car america has got so much about them Wrong. Sad to say.
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"low income yet their parents always seem to be driving late model SUVs that cost between $40-50,000. Where do they get the money?"
That's the same with white america too
113 Bere.
and it is a lot easier to miss an exit with american sign-age.
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bere54
"not turning on their lights" In Canada our headlights come on automatically when the car is turned on. Googled to get more info - year cars were made with that feature, etc. but it was complicated to find definitive info (so I gave up!), basically - we drive with our lights on all the time. Perhaps you have noticed that while in Canada.
(An aside - the wedding is in Knowlton - maybe I could give you some sort of signal - then you could be "just driving by"!!)
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#114, Happylaze:
You wrote: "Oh and where are the rear fog lights on US cars." Even in San Fransisco, California, I don't believe we get the kind of fog that would justify rear fog lights. Here in Connecticut, it is never that foggy. The only place where I have ever encountered fog that was dangerously thick was at the top of Mount Washington. Even when I lived in London, I was not aware of any extreme cases of fog.
You also wrote: "on the rolls . I too would love one . I think it would make a pretty chicken coop but the embodied energy could never be excused." I'm not aware of many Rolls Royces ever going to the junk yard. I suppose it has happened, but I have never heard of it. If your referring to the amount of fuel it takes to run one, it would be no different than the full size SUVs or pick-up trucks currently being sold here.
I'll just forget the "chicken coop" remark.
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#112, Veteranbullfighter:
That is why they should be payed more while in Mexico. There would be no need to come here if they were. They are different from all other immigrants in so much as they think we stole the land from them. With millions living here, and producing so many offspring, it is easy to see future trouble lurking on the horizon. Decriminalizing marijuana would take out their drug cartels and keep them from selling it here as there would be enough being produced in this country. Helping them fix their own economy seems a good alternative.
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happylaze
I was in the UK right after they changed to monetary metric. What a shamozzle! The shilling was still in circulation, but we were to consider it counting for something else - every so confusing! My uncle, a math whiz, was trying to convince me the old system was better - so much easier to count to 12, he informed me. I kept my mouth shut (being the polite visiting Canadian niece and all) while my cousin piped up, "That's because you're an idiot!! (to him - not me!) A girl after your own heart! Having never, ever thought of my father as an idiot, never mind voicing such a thought, I considered a dive under the table might be in order.
At one point I just held out my collection of coins at the tube station and said, "Take what you need."
Driving in the US with a speedometre in kilometres was a bit confusing. What's the speed limit in this State? Oh, we'll just consider that to be .... (an overestimate.)
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#113, Bere54:
You wrote: "if for some reason you miss an exit (can't see it through the driving snow) you've got a looong way to go."
I've been in that boat while driving in Vermont too. We go there frequently as some family still live there. There is an old saying: If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is around to hear it, does it still make a noise? Same with those turn-a-rounds on the highway. If you're quick and accelerate fast when re-entering the highway, all is good. Back in the 90s, during a snow storm, I had no choice but to use one as I couldn't get up one of the hills near Bellows Falls and that was on I-91 North.
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116, timewaits -
Yes, I did notice that about headlights when driving in Canada, so always turned my on too. Now I have a car where the headlights come on when the engine is on. The problem with this feature is that a lot of people don't seem to realize that their rear lights do not come on automatically and in heavy rain and fog can't seem to make the extra effort to switch on the lights, so there you are driving along and suddenly a few feet ahead a car looms that you didn't see because the taillights aren't on. It's the law in Vermont to have all lights on in snow, rain, and fog and I wish the cops would enforce this. But they seem to think it's more important to ticket people who don't come to a complete stop at a stop sign in town late at night when there are no other cars in sight. This has happened to practically everyone I know except me, probably because I rarely drive late at night.
Knowlton, huh? I'll have to look that up on the map.
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lol Cads.
Embodied energy is the energy used to build it.
I suggested that the embodied energy in a Rolls would be too high to justify as a Chicken coop.
Though it would look OK and very ritzy.
As to Fog lights.
Lets have a rule then. Don't travel to foggy places if you don't have fog lights.
You mention London was not foggy enough to warrant it.
. Well try driving in the wet country when the sea fog is rolling in. normal tail lights have a viewing distance much shorter than the fogs. That is why every car in Europe must have at least one rear fog lights.
(And they tend to try to do things that improve. hence their adoption of lower energy water boilers that turn off when they boil and such.)
The cost of the Fog light would be negligable to the manufacture and is a lot more useful than a dvd player and a cup holder.
Again. why is it that americans Ignore improvements just to be American.
And in SF there are days when the fog is thick enough to justify Fog lights but without them how would you know that they are doing good or not.
As to the yellow lights,no comment on the " if they irritate you so then they must be more visible", I notice.
Just saying "we have not tried it so it is not needed and would not help "is not really a very good answer.
Bit like saying "I have faith that the US system is great"
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122 happylaze
I'm hoping you don't think for one mad moment I was suggesting you would call your father an idiot! Thought of that after I posted. I meant calling them as you see them - in general not your father in particular.
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118 Cads, again very good points, glad to agree.
Time ah that was when the currency went decimal .
In 2000 the weights and measures went Metric.
There was a fuss as to the pints getting small (but here the US pint is short as well;)) people not being able to figure out how many half litres in a litre.
Too "french" for some old stalwarts.
As someone who uses math in every day uses such as working out how many pickets in a given length to meet code but maintain an even spacing. I find metric to be so much easier to understand than Imperial units( laugh america uses Short Imperial units when even the UK moved on.
well not easier to understand but quite frankly quicker to work with and less likely for errors.
no need to go to a chart for decimal conversions as most of america does.
Or relying on failing memory to remember which fraction is greater 15/64 or 1/4 inch.
Or to have to waste time figuring out it is about 6 mm .(if you stick to 15/64
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bere54
A lot of our cars have all lights come on, some just the headlights which can be confusing if you are driving someone else's car.
I think that full stop at a stop sign ticketing is done at the end of the month when they realize their revenues are low.
My sister was stopped for speeding after a storm when many were still without electricity. She "stretched the truth" as hers was back on and told the cop she was trying to get the hot food she had just bought home to her family. "You still don't have electricity? Go, go!" he said.
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happylaze
We are completely metric here now (of course should have said decimal). Weights, distances, temperature, so much so that those just coming out of school do not know the "old" system. I offered my niece a bed and measured its length to see if it would fit. She later asked me if I still had that 7 inch bed!! It was 70. Oh dear! is that not funny? We were in San Diego and were told it was going to be 72 degrees, nice temperature. My young son kept saying, "what does that mean?, I don't know what that means!" It means it's going to be a nice day, was the best I could do.
We also used the Imperial system. So a gallon was not a gallon, etc. Made it a little more difficult living right next door.
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54, publius; 57, allmymarbles; publius 59.
Today's New York Times says that "the truck drivers' argument that Mexican trucks are unsafe is spurious - a flimsy cover for protectionism." They go on to say that the Mexican trucks have better inspection and fewer violations.
That supports what you and I have been saying - a turf war.
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I have lived and worked a couple of hundred feet from Mexico on the U.S. side of the border and have seen and experienced first hand Mexican trucks and drivers. Both vary widely in their fitness and abilities. Some - note some - drivers from Mexico are trained in Tijuana parking lots and if they can drive for a few hundred feet without wrecking something they can drive across the border. A high percentage of trucks have been found to have safety problems. Some Mexican trucking operations appear to be first class, but the wide variability and apparent lack of uniform standards for Mexican trucking now places Americans at risk near the border and if Mexican trucks are allowed beyond that the risk would be far greater. If NAFTA is to be invoked then standards for trucks and drivers need to be uniform and uniformly enforced.
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