One of the oddities of the Obama/Canada relationship is that he is so far to the left of Stephen Harper's conservative government. As this piece makes clear the Canadian people are probably on board for dramatic action on climate change but the Canadian government tends to take the same view as the Bush administration did - that these measures might damage the economy.
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Left live for the better future.
Right live for now irregardless of future even if within lifetime.
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Uh-oh!
First of all, I love and respect Canada. But be careful...you are countering one of Canada's biggest self-delusional myths. In order to make themselves feel better about the fact they elected a conservative government, they will ALWAYS tell you that their conservative party is waaaayyy more liberal than US Democrats. This is of course nonsense, but call it out at your own risk!
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The reason why Harper doesn't want to do much on climate change is because the first thing he would have to do is close down the tar sands works in Alberta - hitting the very people who he relies on to keep him in power.
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"....is that he is so far to the left...."
Justin - that sensational language is not like you.
On a 12 inch rule representing political positions, with the extremes at either end, Obama is no more than an inch away from Harper.
The environment isn't a or left or right wing issue, despite your inference. I can point to as many conservatives wishing to maintain the quality of the countryside as I can socialists promoting recycling.
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I found the topics addressed during the press conference in Canada a welcome respite from the doom and gloom, and negativism, that is the norm in our news.
Juding by all the questions about green energy and trade, it looks like the economic crisis is not be as severe in Canada as it is in the USA.
IMO President Bush and the Canadian government were wrong in neglecting green solutions on the basis that pursuing that goal would hurt our economies. In fact, pursuing green energy goals would create a new industry and expand opportunities at a time when our Jurassic debt-ridden industry is on life support.
The problem is that the money allocated in the stimulus package to achieve energy independence is not enough, and that private industry does not have the resources and may be reluctant to even attempt it considering how complacent we are with the status quo. I simply can not imagine too many American homeowners switching to solar or wind power, or replacing our beloved SUVs with hybrids.
The talk about energy independence and stopping oil imports from "countries that don't like us very much" was nice campaign rhetoric, but it doesn't resonate that much in the real world.
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I don't know anything about Canadian politics, but it would seem that the Canadian people would not like to be left out of the advances in climate control that Obama is pursuing. Common sense (if it can be applied to politics) suggests that, sooner or later, the two countries will be working together to clean up our mutual environment. We got rid of Bush. Let that be a warning to Canada's conservative government.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ridiculous. Obama is a centrist Democrat, which makes him approximately equivalent to a centrist conservative like Harper. The blogger apparently knows little about Canadian politics. Canada has a long tradition of Red Toryism. And until recently, the conservative party was called the Progressive Conservatives. Really, shouldn't a BBC employee possess a little more knowledge, or research ability?
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"(Obama) is so far to the left of Stephen Harper's conservative government."
That's a sweeping statement of the kind Bill O'Reilly would make - what precisely is "so far to the left"? The President hasn't espoused the (official) nationalisation of the banking sector let alone other essential industries, and neither is he suggesting a health service such as Canada has. Observers such as O'Reilly and Justin fall into the trap of labelling politicians with exaggerated descriptions of their policies and proposals. In the past Justin has failed to understand that (British) Labour and the Democrats are not automatically aligned even though they are considered to be the 'left-wing' parties of their respective countries. Just because Tony Blair toadies up to the President at a Prayer Breakfast (and earlier to #43) that in no way indicates close political agreement. The "relationship" spoken of is politically convenient, faux friendship: looks real but is not.
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ref #1
Left live to blame and whine
The rest of us try to work hard.
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Justin:
Now that you are back, please address the hateful stament from Eric Holder about cowardness in race relations.
The cowardness is people like Eric Holder refuse to denounce the racial blame game.
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Mr Webb, as a Canadian, I am shocked at your ignorance of Canadian politics, media, and issues, or at your liberal/leftist bias, or the combination thereof. These days, those seem to be qualities sine qua non for a BBC correspondent.
Your visit should have spurred you to do some research; or, rather, you did it, and intentionally provided a link to the Canadian equivalent of Granma/Pravda, the Toronto Star.
Canadians voted last year, and overwhelmingly rejected the Green Shift, radical environmental policies proposed by Mr Stephen Dion, the then leader of the Liberal Party of Canada. THat,s why the name of our PM is Stephen Harper, as you may have noticed. As poll after poll reveal, the environmental issues are bottom of the list for us in the current economic turmoil.
According to other polls, Mr Obama enjoys the approval of 81 per cent of Canadians. Would have he ever been elected a PM of Canada? I have to reject this hypothesis, as we, and our media (excl. CBC and the Toronto Star) tend to scrutinise our politicians, and are adulation-proof. No wonder Mr Obama was greeted in Ottawa by a poultry 2,000 (police estimate).
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Canada was managed for many years by liberals and they didn't do any better with climate control. The only difference between then and now is that Harper isn't doing any lip service like the former government did.
Makes sense they would follow what the Obama Administration does... he wouldn't then be accused of doing anything worse.
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#10, MagicKirin:
Left live to blame and whine
The rest of us try to work hard.
Then why are the centers of industry and growth mostly in Democratic states?
-FreeClench
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Richard_SM wrote:
"The environment isn't a or left or right wing issue, despite your inference. I can point to as many conservatives wishing to maintain the quality of the countryside as I can socialists promoting recycling."
Pollution and the so called "anthropogenic global warming" are two separate issues. I would support any effort to fight pollution, as long as it would pass a cost-benefit analysis test.
Global warming? What global warming? The average global temperatures have been falling since 1998. Please check the Hadley UK measurements:
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/
So much for the correlation "increasing CO levels-increasing average global temperatures".
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Eric Holder was worked up because of a cartoon that, arguably, compared Obama to a chimpanzee.
I consider it open to interpretation. But if you follow that logic, that would make the cartoon about assassination.
My supposition is that the cartoonist did not think through the full implications of what he was saying. Certain aspects of the cultural context eluded him. I think it was a clumsy, gauche, bone-headed move: I think he's a dork. Cartoonists and comedians who presume to do social commentary should be expected to understand the society they live in and its social codes. That's their job.
I think it was insensitive to the Connecticut community that had a wild animal rampage around their homes, and appalling to the woman who had her face torn off. It wasn't very nice to the owner of the ape, either, but I'm not so inclined to worry about her.
I think the cartoon was hateful along party lines, in that way that conservatives have toward liberals. Some liberals feel that way toward conservatives too, but let's face it: psycho political hostility seems more current among conservatives than liberals. The exception to that has been during the Vietnam war.
But I don't think it was intentionally racist. This kind of thing happens.
-FreeClench
ps. The day after Obama's inauguration, in line to get a drink, I had to crowd a pretty young black girl. And I said, "'Scuse me, don't want to spook you."
And she turned and looked at me. Spook. An old-time slang for black: because you can't see them in the night on account of their dark skin. Oops.
And I said, "Uuhh-- that is, I don't want to startle you." And she and her friends were cool.
Meanwhile, speaking of the race problem, it seems that a Muslim man who founded a television station to combat stereotypes of Muslims, has been arrested on suspicion of decapitating his wife. More oops.
-Fc
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Ref 11, Magic
"Now that you are back, please address the hateful stament from Eric Holder about cowardness in race relations."
Eric Holder should apologize for calling the USA a nation of cowards when it comes to our willingness to discuss race relations, at a time when an African-American has been elected President, and the Attorney General and several members of the Cabinet and advisory team are also minorities.
Our country has come a long way on that issue, and while it may be true that racism is not entirely a thing of the past, I don't see the need for inflammatory language to highlight the need for further dialogue on that topic.
I am also quite disturbed with Pelosi's trip to Italy where she visited the Vatican and received a copy of her grand Daddy's birth certificate at tax payer's expense; and Gov. Palin's fraudulent decision to charge per diem while she was at home and aggravating the problem by not paying taxes on it.
At this rate comedians are going to go out of business, all we have to do is keep track of our politicians to have a good laugh. Problem is, some of this stuff is not funny.
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Ref 16, freeclench
"I consider it open to interpretation."
Considering our history, and some of the language and insults used in the past, the cartoon was in very poor taste and it is not too difficult to understand why a lot of people were offended by it. I think the NY Times should apologize and move on to bigger and better things. The same goes for Eric Holder.
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#6 allmymarbles wrote:
"I don't know anything about Canadian politics, but it would seem that the Canadian people would not like to be left out of the advances in climate control that Obama is pursuing. Common sense (if it can be applied to politics) suggests that, sooner or later, the two countries will be working together to clean up our mutual environment. We got rid of Bush. Let that be a warning to Canada's conservative government."
Oh dear, 36 per cent of all Canadians (the CPC voters) must be shaking in their boots.
Indeed, you do not know anything about Canadian politics.
I just pray that we as Canadians, and our Canadian politicians, have all our marbles not to join the Obama administration's pending lunacy: the expected official revealing of carbon (dioxide) as the No 1 enemy of the people sometime in April by Obama's head of EPA, followed by respective draconian taxation.
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#18, saintDominick,
I agree.
-Fc
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(It was the Post.)
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re: 12 peterbo No wonder Mr Obama was greeted in Ottawa by a poultry 2,000 (police estimate).
There were 2000 chickens on the Hill as well?
Wow.
Yours,
Canadian Pinko
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re: 15 peterbo Global warming? What global warming? The average global temperatures have been falling since 1998. Please check the Hadley UK measurements
Uh, those charts are a bit de-contextualized for a layperson such as myself to really get a good read on, but they look to me like a clear demonstration of rising temperature.
Anyway, I suspect freeclench has got a thing or two to say about this, so I'll wait for his posts to clear.
Yours,
Canadian Pinko
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#12 - Obama was greeted by 2000 poultry? That must have been interesting. I'm sorry I missed it.
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#16, freeclench -
Isn't it possible that race never even occurred to the cartoonist, and isn't that sort of what we aim for? If one is not taking race into account at all, not even subconsciously, isn't that a good thing? I haven't seen the cartoon and am not excusing it (though I've heard it described), but how are we ever going to get past race if we always have to be hypersensitive about it?
I'm hoping we can all someday be like my sister who, as a young child, pointed out her best school friend to our mother, describing her as the "girl with the red ribbons." My mother looked, and the girl with the red ribbons was the only black child. (My sister and her friend later on had a disagreement about which crayon in the box was really the "Flesh" color, but they agreed to disagree.)
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#22
"re: 12 peterbo No wonder Mr Obama was greeted in Ottawa by a poultry 2,000 (police estimate).
There were 2000 chickens on the Hill as well?
Wow.
Yours,
Canadian Pinko"
Yes, sir. I have to confirm the sarcasm. Some of the poultry interviewed on the spot were surreal. An orgasmic chick screaming in the mike that she saw His hand (as He was leaving his limousine). Now that's chic.
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23 chronophobe
Glad to see you here, please stick around. I'm sure you understand why. Your debating skills are far superior to mine.
I have written you a few times, hope you have seen them.
Where is Interestedforeigner when we need him.
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23. At 02:12am on 20 Feb 2009, chronophobe wrote:
#23
re: 15 peterbo Global warming? What global warming? The average global temperatures have been falling since 1998. Please check the Hadley UK measurements
"Uh, those charts are a bit de-contextualized for a layperson such as myself to really get a good read on, but they look to me like a clear demonstration of rising temperature.
Anyway, I suspect freeclench has got a thing or two to say about this, so I'll wait for his posts to clear.
Yours,
Canadian Pinko"
De-contextualized... Reminds me of that unforgettable OBAMA NUANCE THEME. It's the thermometer, stupid. I don't know which school of thought can help you in learning to read a well-pronounced downward trend curve.
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re: 28
It's a graph representing "HadCRUT3 temperature anomaly." Maybe you can explain what that is, 'cuz I don't know.
And how you are getting a "well pronounced downward curve" since 1998 out of that graph, I don't know either.
Curious.
Yours,
Canadian Pinko
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re: 27 timewaits,
I saw them, and thank you. You are very kind, even to a lowly redneck Albertan.
As to the other, it is sometimes best to follow Homer Simpson's advice and "back away slowly, avoiding eye contact . . . "
Cheers,
Pinko
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While the discussion around how we can better our environment is both worthwhile and healthy, I find it disheartening that rarely are the physical realities or technical barriers that stand in our way discussed as heavily as are the economics. While the art of economics is a useful means of hypothesising about that which cannot be meaningfully forecast scientifically, it will not (by itself) bring about the solutions we seek.
Many of the propsed "solutions" to the environmental problems that we face are ill advised suggestions made by individuals who lack the expertise required to speak thoughfully on the subject. The first step in solving the problem is for the general public to stop pointing the finger at big business and realize that it is the sum total of their individually small demands that fuels the industrial complex they hate so much. Further, to achieve the environmental mitigation that many claim to seek, it is important to realize that this will come at a sizeable cost to every consumer. At what point do we just declare it a public good and stop worrying about the supposed economic catastrophe such action will cause? Will it be any more expensive or onerus than maintaining a military? A system of highways? A civil service?
I find Justin's comments unfortunate. I have a great deal of respect for the service that the BBC provides and the standards they set for journalism. I would be interested to hear Justin expand on what - at first glance - seems to be unusually ill thought out.
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#24, bere54 wrote:
Obama was greeted by 2000 poultry? That must have been interesting. I'm sorry I missed it.
The poultry didn't attend. They were chicken.
-FreeClench
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chronophobe
Oh I know you are not a redneck. If fact I should probably call you out for stereotyping! But I do appreciate you kindly pointing it out to me. I realized they were an over-reaction to abusive comments.
Your advice is very amusing and I plan to follow it. Slowly.....
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#29
"It's a graph representing "HadCRUT3 temperature anomaly." Maybe you can explain what that is, 'cuz I don't know.
And how you are getting a "well pronounced downward curve" since 1998 out of that graph, I don't know either.
Curious.
Yours,
Canadian Pinko "
The global average temperature trend in three easy steps for the AGW zealot:
1) Enter
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/#faq
2) Then read the "Why are the temperatures expressed as anomalies from 1961-90? " paragraph
3) Last, make sure you're not doing an upside down asana in front of your screen, and look at the trend curve for the last ten years
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#25, bere54 wrote:
freeclench -
Isn't it possible that race never even occurred to the cartoonist, and isn't that sort of what we aim for? If one is not taking race into account at all, not even subconsciously, isn't that a good thing? I haven't seen the cartoon and am not excusing it (though I've heard it described), but how are we ever going to get past race if we always have to be hypersensitive about it?
I'm hoping we can all someday be like my sister who, as a young child, pointed out her best school friend to our mother, describing her as the "girl with the red ribbons." My mother looked, and the girl with the red ribbons was the only black child. (My sister and her friend later on had a disagreement about which crayon in the box was really the "Flesh" color, but they agreed to disagree.)
That's a very cool story about your sister.
Of course, children have always started off innocent of racism: racism is learned. And children learn racism because they are innocent, innocently accepting the racist beliefs of their elders.
But what is heartwarming in a little girl is stupidity in a political cartoonist, who intends to make a cultural commentary. It is his job to understand cultural codes: he implicitly claims to understand them when he undertakes his profession.
Comedy is a function of nuance. It is a comedian's job to understand nuance. If he does not, and offends, it is reasonable to take him to task for that.
Nor can he in this case be expected much charity, because he is intentionally hateful: He is purposely farcical about an event that left a woman with her face and jaw torn off, because it's more important to him to score droll political points.
That's not hatefulness about race, but it is hatefulness. So, he probably made a miscalculation: while he intended to make a mildly hateful cartoon that nobody could really object to, he accidentally made a seriously hateful cartoon that piddles on the face of decency.
In other words, he's a schmuck
I don't intend to declare a jihad on him, but I do think he's a schmuck.
-FreeClench
ps. Whether he made a Freudian slip is a matter that doesn't much interest me. I consider it a question for his re-educators.
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The poultry didn't attend. They were chicken.
It becomes clearer what Mr. Webb meant by the title of the blog post.
-Fc
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#23, chronophobe wrote:
Uh, those charts are a bit de-contextualized for a layperson such as myself to really get a good read on, but they look to me like a clear demonstration of rising temperature.
Anyway, I suspect freeclench has got a thing or two to say about this, so I'll wait for his posts to clear.
Not really. The graph does indeed show a clear trend toward warmer global temperatures over the past 100 years, of about 1 degree Centigrade, which is the figure I've heard elsewhere.
The scientific community overwhelmingly agrees that climate change due to the greenhouse effect is ongoing and inevitable. The question is, now that the genie is out of the bottle, to what extent we can and will choose to manage it.
But really, there are so many different ways we might destroy the Earth.
-FreeClench
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#16
"Meanwhile, speaking of the race problem, it seems that a Muslim man who founded a television station to combat stereotypes of Muslims, has been arrested on suspicion of decapitating his wife. More oops.
-Fc"
Mmmm, that Muslim RACE. Any specific racial identificators?
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peterbo #12
Yes, of course Canadians put Stephen Harper back in power solely because they rejected the Liberal's Green Shift, and not at all because the Liberal's Stephane Dion has a distracting French accent when speaking English, the fact that the Liberals have been damaged by many years in power culminating in a debilitating public finance scandal in Quebec, and of course the economic "crisis".
Dion's Green Shift is "radical"? Canadians "overwhelmingly rejected" it? That's not the Canada I live in! Note that Canadians showed quite a bit of support for an unprecedented coalition of the "left of conservative" parties, forcing Stephen Harper to close parliament early lest his government fall. And also that the Liberal's "Green Shift" platform was stolen pretty much directly from the Green Party of Canada, who have been experiencing record popularity across the country, including a good showing in their first ever official leaders' debate.
Finally, you state: "as poll after poll reveal, the environmental issues are bottom of the list for us".
Oh really? Which polls? I did a google search for "canada" "poll" "environmental" "issues", and the first three are:
Environment a priority for more Canadians, poll suggests
Canada: Most willing to sacrifice for environment: poll
Poll: Environmental Issues Dominate in BC
None of the first page results indicates otherwise.
#15, 19, 28...
Oh dear, have I been wasting my time? You go on to confuse 'paltry' with 'poultry', claim Obama's environmental ideas (backed up by the best scientists in the world) are "lunacy", and try to single handedly argue against climate change based on a single chart covering a paltry (hah!) 10 years.
Let me tell you something: ten years means NOTHING. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Get thee some higher education, and try to wrap your head around a million years, then come back and give us your conclusions. They will be different.
Canadians care about their environment. Mr. Obama is popular in Canada precisely because of his rational stance on human rights, terrorism, war, and the environment. Oh, and also because he can speak a grammatically correct sentence, with or without cue cards!
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"Canadians agree. A poll last November found that 78 per cent of Canadians want Canada's climate targets to be based on the advice of scientists, even if meeting these targets means some cost."
I am simply envious. I WISH that many Americans were that rational!
Sigh....
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#37
Since 1850 the average global temperature has increased by 0.6C, and that increase is not linear:
http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/
The last ten years' average global temperature trend does not support the IPCC mantra of "increasing CO2 concentration - increasing average global temperature".
(A)GW is oh so passe. Time to move on. "Climate change" promises more in terms of paxpayer fleecing.
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#39. draker: "Mr. Obama is popular . . . because he can speak a grammatically correct sentence, with or without cue cards!"
But without the cue cards or TelePrompTer the has to think and pause to choose his words. Like his predecessor - and Ronald Reagan - speaking extemporaneously is not his strong suit. Churchill made a virtue of his pauses and Mr Obama would be well advised to study his style.
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#41, peterbo wrote:
The last ten years' average global temperature trend does not support the IPCC mantra of "increasing CO2 concentration - increasing average global temperature".
I'm not a climatologist. I gather that global weather is a complex system.
Just as you can't predict where the stock market will be next year by its behavior today, and just as you can't tell if dice are loaded with one roll, neither can you predict long-term weather patterns by looking at a decade's weather.
It's time to get serious about this.
-FreeClench
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#39
You must have been one of the humourless paltry poultry on the Hill meeting Obama today.
You live in a Canada that places top priority on the economy: otherwise the name of Canada's PM would have been Stephane Dion. Canadians may pay lip service to environmental issues in polls, but when they have to face the taxation consequences of the environmentalist lunacies, the common sense prevails. The last election proves my point. Have you heard any top-ranking Liberal promote the Green Shift lately?
Re global warming: the alarmists base their hysteria on data from 1850. If you indeed wish to investigate the climate millions of years backwards, you would discover much warmer periods before any human existance/activity.
As for Obama's POLICIES, I asked a question last year, and I am asking it againg:
Why would our southern neighbours wish to subscribe to the past-its-due date socialist EU model that translates into: stagnant economy and low GDP growth; high unemployment; high levels of taxation and low personal disposable income and low business investment; balooning budget deficits because of unsustainable welfare programs; high proportion of unproductive, dependent on welfare population; mindless immigration policies and multiculti utopias that destroy society's fabrics, etc., etc.
Obama's goal is to create a large segment of dependents that will perpetuate him and the Dems in office, under a de facto one-party system. This socio-economic model is a reality in IL, MI, NY, CA, and the goal is to replicate it at national level.
Why would I want such policies to succeed, and is their success in Canada's economic and social interest?
As for Obama's PERSONALITY, in my opinion this is a cold, calculating, and manipulative disciple of Saul Alinsky:
http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=a74fca23-f6ac-4736-9c78-f4163d4f25c7&p=1
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2008-02-28/news/obama-and-me/full
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Id like to stay out of the frying pan with this global warming topic, but ill hold my hand over it and point out an interesting tid bit of info that I think is fairly neutral.
Did yall know that the Earth is still technically recovering from the last ice age, and the one Im talking about isnt necessarily the last big either; Im talking about the so called Little Ice age that last peaked in the 1770s, some argue 1850s, when the Delaware river and the Thames froze regularly. Since then, the earth has fairly consistently warmed.
But that is not the whole story, this Little Ice age began at the end of the high middle ages when the earth, or at least northern Europe and America, were experiencing temperatures warmer than today (vineyards in England). But out of nowhere the temperatures dropped, glaciers began to advance, and northern Europe became stormy, cold, and disease ridden (the Black Death).
Things were terrible enough for a long enough time to cause revolutions, but in the 1800s the temperatures began to rise again (the industrial revolution?) until we got the temperatures that we see today. Today we remain close, but still colder on average than the Medieval Warm Period of the high middle ages.
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#42 David_Cunard
Completely agree. In addition: I do not fully trust anyone who does not pause and think to choose his/her words before speaking. "A virtue of his pauses" sounds to me like an excellent option.
#43 freeclench
Very well put.
#44 peterbo
Your comment is not worth responding to. You open with a smirk, then repeat your simplistic summation of a very complex election, mixing your opinions with your supposed facts. Your questions are loaded, describing extreme situations, and you ascribe utterly corrupt motives to Mr. Obama's administration. Were this the truth, it would be time for revolution. Is that what you are advocating? What, in fact, are you advocating? Nothing. You are a troll, and I will reply no more.
The simple truths regarding the environment are these:
Constant growth is not sustainable.
Our economy is fundamentally based on constant growth.
Continuous external input to a stable, closed system will render it unstable, and in a complex system, that instability is near impossible to predict, and may approach chaos.
The conversion of fossilized carbon deposited millions of years ago into airborne CO2, methane, etc., which has continued and increased since the Industrial Revolution, is a continuous input to our closed, complex ecosystem. It's easy to recognize that chaotic reactions in this ecosystem are life-threatening. Anyone who has ever owned an aquarium, and paid attention, understands how this works. Sooner or later the pH starts drifting, and an input must be applied to correct it. The bigger the aquarium, the more slowly the reactions become evident, and so the more likely it is to apply too much correction, and the wilder the subsequent swings in the aquarium ecosystem. The fish die.
It should be quite evident, regardless of what any temperature chart shows, that it is folly to blindly continue to make any continuous inputs to our ecosystem.
Let's put it another way: if you were to wake up after a particularly wild party to find yourself alone in a small space capsule, evidently in orbit around the Earth, would you press randomly at the buttons on the console?
Our economy, based as it is on non-sustainable resources (such as population growth), is not sustainable. In addition, our way of life, driven by our economic system, is damaging our environment. Our environment is both beautiful and essential to our healthy existence. How could anyone choose economy over environment under these circumstances?
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#34:
Why should we just look at the last 10 yeas of the curve?
The whole graph shows a general increase over the past 100 years, with occasional small blips up and down lasting for a few years.
A small dip over the past 10 years (or less - looks more like 5 years to me) doesn't mean anything.
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Anyone who loves the idea of our energy addiction being sustained by Canadian tar sands, should have a look here for an analysis of the energy return on energy invested. In brief, it shows that you need to spend thee equivalent of one barrel of oil to get slightly more than five out, and that the economics mean that the open market price must remain above $32 to be 'worthwhile'.
There is also the matter of ecological devastation on an unbelievable scale...Gallery of shame and, some more views From giggle Earth and another.
This, of course, is while the operations remain relatively "small".....
The cost of addiction to massive per capita energy use is very high, and, in the end of course, totally short-term, limited, and thus unsustainable!
Peace and coming to terms with [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]limits
ed
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I resent the constant inferences that "the Right" are non-conservationist.
I and my many friends spend considerable amounts of time and money as individuals and through membership of large organisations of like minded people on promoting the countryside,oceans,waterways and atmosphere of this beautiful planet.
Most of us are determined and resolute in our efforts to persuade the underclasses to restrict their unaffordable and irresponsible breeding practices and while out shooting,hunting,stalking or fishing are always aware of and looking to improve bird cover,spawning grounds and the quality of herds by judicious culling or "catch and return" policies.
Compared to the lunatics of the A.L.F who are definitely a "Leftist" organisation and have caused untold damage by irresponsible acts of terrorism masquerading as "Freeing!" mink and other vermin, the "Right" are collectively the St. Francis de nos jours.
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1. Wil Ng
Do you by any chance have a coalition?
I consider myself to be fairly far to the right, and I would say most of us, right or left, are merely trying to build a better future for our children.
2. Shawnbb. The Progressive Conservatives (in which "Progressive is not an adjective but a noun dating from the days when John Bracken was leader) were always a center-right party.
The present "Conservative Party of Canada" is over the horizon to the right on social policy (i.e., the last refuge of the religious conservatives of the Bush debacle), far to the right on resource (read: pandering to oil companies) policy, and center-right on other economic policies generally).
Its heritage is not the coalition of eastern Tories and the mildly rightish portion of the Western Progressives, but rather of Social Credit and right wing bible bashers like "Bible" Bill Aberhart, his successor Ernest Manning, and Manning's son Preston (actually, although I disagree with him philosophically, I have great respect for Preston Manning's intelligence, ability, personal integrity, dedication to public service and outstanding knowledge of Canadian history). This is why Harper is having such a tough time in central Canada. That message just does not sell in the East.
No matter how many name changes it has (Social Credit, Reform, Conservative Canadian Reform Alliance Party i.e., C-Crap to some, Reform to others) and now Conservative Party of Canada, it is still the same old thing.
It is a long, long way from the old Progressive Conservative party, which was, in margaret Thatcher-speak, chock full of wets.
Canada does have a long history of red-Toryism (i.e., center-right economic views coupled with tolerant and generally centrist views on social policy) going back to Sir John A. MacDonald (founding father, first Prime Minister (1867-1873, 1878-1891), and, simultaneously while PM also a railroad promoter, insurance company director and noted gin drinker). George Grant's book "Lament for a Nation" is often cited in this regard. As a further example, former leader and briefly Prime Minister Joe Clark, almost the definition of a red-Tory, refused to join the Harper choir. Red-Toryism has nothing to do with Stephen Harper.
More to come...
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3. APbbforum has made an accurate point.
This is why Canada will do everything it can to prevent, delay, minimize, hamstring, and generally discombobulate every effort to do anything about global warming as long as Stephen Harper is in office.
Canada has slack manufacturing capacity in Ontario and Quebec that could, and should, be building wind turbines as fast as possible, notwithstanding the present apparently uneconomic nature of these projects when oil is at US $ 35/barrel. Canada has extraordinary wind generation potential. Existing GE and Vestas machines are not sturdy enough to handle much of this potential.
Oil will not always be cheap, and right now the cost of labour and material inputs (cement, steel, aluminum) is low. Canada has appropriate expertise in all relevant industry sectors. There are major employers in Hamilton, now on life-support, that could do this work tomorrow. Both approval and construction of wind turbine installations is far easier and faster than any other kind of power generation installation.
None of this will happen while Stephen Harper is in office. Hydro Quebec, which could do it, and has mouth-watering opportunities, is a financial mess. Ontario Hydro i.e., Ontario Power Generation, has opted for Nuclear)
The same can be said about upgrading Canada's railroad infrastructure by adding additional double and triple track sections, by adding sidings, for grade separation projects to permit higher speed, higher capacity and less frequently interrupted operation. This is a golden opportunity for building subways in major urban centers. The construction firms are dying for lack of work.
... but it won't happen until they pry the Dodge Ram steering wheel "out of my cold, dead hands".
What do Harper and (Ontario Premier) McGuinty do?
They announce that the big idea for economic stimulus funds is (wait for it) ...
... to expand parking lots!!!
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#49, Moncursalion-our-last-great-captain. wrote:
I resent the constant inferences that "the Right" are non-conservationist.
Take it up with the Republican party.
-FreeClench
ps. And your radio talk shows.
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9.DC
Actually, the Harper goveernment would like to dismantle public health care if it could. Here, however they are constrained by public opinion, and their efforts to make the system more financially efficient might do some good. Also, health is primarily a provincial responsibility, notwithstanding the Canada Health Act. For the most part, the feds merely pay for a big chunk of it, as opposed for being responsible for the acutal delivery of services.
On the subject of health care, Allen Blakeney has just written some memoirs that include commentary on the introduction of public health care in Saskatchewan in the 1960's. It was the model for the rest of Canada. President Obama could do worse than to spend an afternoon with Mr. Blakeney, a profoundly decent, intelligent (Rhodes Scholar), and public spirited man whose efforts as treasurer (i.e., finance minister), minister of health, and later as Premier, have been of enormous lasting benefit to all Canadians.
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12. Pererbo.
The Toronto Star as Pravda or Gramna. That tickles. LOL.
It certainly is a rag.
All the same, your analysis of the recent Canadian election seems a bit misleading.
There was a 61 % voter turnout (more on this below), of which 37 % voted for the Conservatives, or roughly 23 % of the total electorate. The actual number of votes being fewer, in fact, than voted for them in the previous election. Hardly a ringing endorsement.
The much pilloried Stephan Dion ran a remarkably weak campaign, on a policy almost as popular as Joe Clark's 18 cent per gallon increase in the price of gas. Yet, overall, the Liberals did not do much worse then in the previous outing (again, more on this below).
If Canada had a single transferable vote system, like Australia, it is inconceivable that the Conservatives would currently form the government (Liberals 26 %, NDP 18 %, Greens 7 %) They would have 2 seats in Quebec, and very few in Ontario.
The single largest factor in the increase in seats for the Conservatives was the new voter photo ID law, which appears to have accounted for both the depressed voter turnout and for very nearly all of the Liberal losses and Conservative gains in seat count. When the results are normalised for this factor, Stephan Dion's performance is less than 1 % different from Paul Martin in 2006.
So the Liberals dumped a stiff-necked academic, and got an entirely different kind of leader - a stiff-necked academic.
Poultry you say?
Some chicken. Some neck.
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Anyone who loves the idea of our energy addiction being sustained by Canadian tar sands, should have a look here for an analysis of the energy return on energy invested. In brief, it shows that you need to spend the equivalent of one barrel of oil to get slightly more than five out, and that the economics mean that the open market price must remain above $32 to be 'worthwhile'.
There is also the matter of ecological devastation on an unbelievable scale...Gallery of shame and, some more views From giggle Earth and another.
This, of course, is while the operations remain relatively "small".....
The cost of addiction to massive per capita energy use is very high, and, in the end of course, totally short-term, limited, and thus unsustainable!
Peace and coming to terms with limits
ed
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#35, freeclench -
I agree with you completely regarding the insensitivity (or schmuckiness) of the cartoon in relation to the injured woman. I was speaking only to the race aspect. As I said, I do not in the least excuse the cartoonist. I also feel bad on behalf of the chimp because he was put in a situation not natural to him, all his life, and I don't think what happened was his fault.
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27. Timewaits.
I'm here.
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#47
May I propose a counter question? Why look at the last 100-150 years (since the inception of quasi-accurate metheorological measurements), as the IPCC has chosen to?
The earth is app. 4.54 bn years old, and glacial/rock sample analysis confirms numerous periods of much higher athmospheric concentration of CO2 and average temperatures than the currents ones. But ... the fish in draker's aquarium did not die as a result of those.
Difficult as it may sound to a AGW zealot, a simple fact has to be accepted: CO2 is a vital component of life, and without it the vegetation will cease existing. As will the AGW zealots.
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An interesting pastime?
My score:
Economic Left/Right: -6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03
Others might be willing to post their scores?
For those capable of understanding Scots dialect, humour and politics, A wee visit might amuse...
Slainte!
ed
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Iapetus (47),
What's the point of having two sons if you can't consult both?;-)
ed
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*52 Freeclench
I assume by your references to the "Republican" party and "your" radio shows you consider me to be a descendent of the quasi-communists of the "Mayflower".
May I assure you that I am a pure bred Northumbrian of Northumbria ; a country found between England and Scotland, bordering the German Sea.
I have not experienced radio transmissions from the New World, but as I have yet to hear more than a bare handful of cogent and grammatically correct utterances from the rulers of those lands via the televison media I must suppose that the equivalent of our "Talk Radio" over there must be a torture straight from the 6th level of Hades.
As to the latest fad of the typical leftist crypto-fascists; "Global Warming", had our scientists decided where in the aeons long cycle of plantetary meterology we were/are?
I seem to recollect that all areas of the planet have variousley been tropical or under a mile or two of ice at times.
I am certain that if the planet is getting warmer or indeed colder then it will or it won't.
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#51
Re technical and environmental problems with wind power:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/03/wind_power_needs_dirty_pricey_gas_backup_report/
Currently, it costs app. seven times more to produce a kWT of energy using wind technology compared to coal/hydro/nuclear (please check EPA's site for details). Any cost-benefit analysis of plans for producing 30-50 per cent of a country's enegry via alternative sources must factor in the inevitable (huge) subsidies.
With solar panels, the major hardware problem seems to be scarce resources of a major component, indium. A problem of similar nature is a major obstacle to the development of the hydrogen cell technology: scarce resources of platinum, used as a catalyst.
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re: 51 Interestedforeigner This is a golden opportunity for building subways in major urban centers.
The jaded among us have suggested that Mayor O'Brien here in Ottawa was happy to encourage the pointless and protracted transit strike as a way of cooling public feeling for any major investments in public transit for the city.
I think the mayor is actually not that clever.
In any event, we are in Ottawa currently stuck with a ten year, 3 Billion dollar plan, that will see more money poured into buses before the shovel hits the dirt for any rail project.
Oh well, does GM still manufacture buses? The new ones all seem to be built in Asia.
Yours,
Pinko
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#53. Interestedforeigner wrote:
"Actually, the Harper goveernment would like to dismantle public health care if it could. "
The universal healthcare system will be destroyed by its unsustainability due to demographic trends:
"In fiscal year 2008–09, health-care spending will consume 41.7 per cent of provincial revenues, up from 36.3 per cent in fiscal year 2001–02." (ON, similar problems faced by every other province)
http://www2.conferenceboard.ca/budget/on/default.asp
On some of the niceties of the Canadian healthcare system, and the SC decision that clears the path to a two-tier system:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2005/06/09/newscoc-health050609.html
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#54
If you start with calculating the Conservative percentage of the total of eligible voters, why stop with the Conservatives? The percentages of the other parties would be even lower, wouldn't they?
The what-if scenarios and hypothesizing on different electoral systems are a blind ally: hic Rhodos hic salta.
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It seems the Mods (who are as Gods) don't like something about my perspective on Tar Sands.
Section 1:
Anyone who loves the idea of our energy addiction being sustained by Canadian tar sands, should have a look here for an analysis of the energy return on energy invested. In brief, it shows that you need to spend the equivalent of one barrel of oil to get slightly more than five out, and that the economics mean that the open market price must remain above $32 to be 'worthwhile'.
Section 2 follows
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Section 2.
There is also the matter of ecological devastation on an unbelievable scale...Gallery of shame and, some more views From giggle Earth and another.
This, of course, is while the operations remain relatively "small".....
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Section 3.
The cost of addiction to massive per capita energy use is very high, and, in the end of course, totally short-term, limited, and thus unsustainable!
Peace and coming to terms with [Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]limits
ed
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57 Interestedforeigner
Praise the Lord!
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Peterbro (62),
And with "conventional" nuclear fission, the limited supply of Uranium...50-75 years' worth at present usage levelsReduced per capita demand for energy is the solution...Reducing hypermobility would be a good place to start.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace
ed
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Section 3.
The cost of addiction to massive per capita energy use is very high, and, in the end of course, totally short-term, limited, and thus unsustainable!
Peace and coming to terms with limits
ed
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peterbo
you refer to a cost analysis per kWT
and yet you say compared to coal/hydro/nuclear .
aall of which are very different from each other.
That would suggest that maybe just maybe, no definately , your figures are if being generous about you intent MISLEADING or else out and out fabrication.
The cost for Coal , Nuke , Hydro are not comparable. to each other so ...FAKE logic.
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59, Temporarily Ed -
Okay, I took the test. My scores are:
Econ. L/R: -7.75
Soc. Lib./Auth: -6.36
Which seems to make me a leftist social libertarian. I thought they should have had another answer option: ambivalent. Because that was not an option, some of my answers did not quite accurately express my views. For instance, on the capital punishment one: I don't think execution by the state is right. However, I think there are cases where justifiable homicide (by individuals) as a punishment (or call it revenge if you want to) is understandable, in instances where terrible things have been perpetrated against one's family members. I'm sure other people would find this attitude shocking, but I think murder done in the heat of grief and rage is more acceptable than cold-blooded murder twenty years after the fact of the crime.
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PETERBO
so sorry we missed you on the religion debate.
the Ostrich Society was trying hard but could have done with your support I think.
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*59 Temporarily Ed Iglehart
I visited the little left/right, Authoritarian/Liberal
Test page and was somewhat surprised to be a mildly authoritarian, mildy economically right winger. I think my hanging instincts are somewhat cancelled out by my "If it doesn't frighten the horses; in private" liberalism towards fornication.
Scored +1.75 economically
+1.85 Authoritarianism
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Re global warming: the alarmists base their hysteria on data from 1850. If you indeed wish to investigate the climate millions of years backwards, you would discover much warmer periods before any human existance/activity.
but ice cores going back long time were even older.
hell if they could get the data they would rely on data million of years old.
Or they could do it your way and make up the data now.
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59 Temporarily Ed Iglehart
I am -5. and -4.72. My numbers probably would have been lower if I said "strongly" more often. Well, looks like so far it's you, me, the Dali Lama, Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela. I'm ok with the company.
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If I were a Canadian, I wouldn't mind a little
global warming. Surfing in the Arctic, anyone?
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P.S. And bere54
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78 gunsandreligion
"Surfing in the Arctic" No, really you would not. The Polar bears are drowning. The Inuit are also being affected, but because there are so few of them we choose not to listen.
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-.25, -2.27 for me. So, I'm between Gandhi and
Friedman.
I always knew you guys were lefties.
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By the way, re: my post #73, I was not trying to start a debate on capital punishment. More like one on ambivalence. I did check "disagree" about capital punishment.
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bere54
"And now for something completely different"
Quote of the day for you:
There are three rules for writing the novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
- W. Somerset Maugham
Hope it helps!
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Ref 59 Temporary Ed
Definately left of center here.
Economic: -7.75
Social: -5.59
No wonder I cannot tolerate listening to Rush Limbaugh.
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I took the test again, determined to be less wishy-washy and check "Strongly" where I do feel strongly. Came out this time with: -8.62 and -6.87. Even more lefty/libertarian.
Which is odd because I've never considered myself to be a lefty (except I am left-handed, just like Obama) but rather merely a person of common sense with no labels. I've always been suspicious of standardized tests.
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Bere,
Indeed. Fun anyway.;-)
ed
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81 gunsandreligion
You landed in the bottom left hand box? Well I am pleased to hear it. You come across as if you might, but then there is that thing you have about guns. I'm not sure if guns are allowed in the box. Ed, bere, Nelson, Mahatma and I will have to discuss it. Can you survive without yours if no one else has any?
And now I see we welcome publiusdetroit. Will have to find out his views on guns.
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I'm an infrequent visitor to these outlets and when trying the Hitler v Mother Theresa test tried ever so hard to be "fluffy" , but looking at the scores you other contributors are posting it would appear that you are all of the Bunny Hugging, " Were ALL Guilty!", "All men are potential rapists!" collectivist, mutual hows-your-father vocation.
Otherwise known as liberals (very small L).
They say it takes all sorts but I reserve the right to shoot, whenever and wherever it is legal or guaranteed to be unnoticed.
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73 bere good position. pretty much the same as mine. . just with the inclusion that all police should try their best to prevent said revenge taking place.
And the red handed ness would be important.
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{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Hugs all round}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
You too, Moncursalion. Don't be shy.
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace
ed
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83, timewaits -
Gee, thanks a lot. Now I'll never know. Maybe I should make up the three rules myself. I mean, why not, if nobody else has. Then I could copyright them and make everybody else pay me for them.
86, Ed -
Yes, fun.
89, happylaze -
Yes, the police should try to stop it but if they can't - well . . .
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#59, Ed, I always did hate that type of quiz. My results were
Economic Left/Right: -2.00
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.74
Which makes me think that the thing is flawed!
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#59 Ed
I took the test. I guess I'm a lefty too!
Economy= -8.0
Social= -5.79
The only world leaders in that chart quarter are Gandhi, Mandela, and the Dalai Lama. The rest are all in the authoritarian/Right quarter!
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Ref 87 timewaitsfornoman
It looks like gun-owners fit in the box, too.
I do some hunting, because I like eating wild game. I once lived where pheasants were plentiful, until "ditch-to-ditch" farming practises, over use of agricultural herbicides and pesticides, feral cats and wild dogs set loose in the farmlands depleted the pheasant population.
Now, most all of my shooting is done at paper targets and clay pigeons.
Why own firearms if I seldom do any hunting?
Oddly enough, for serenity!
A marksman must control heart-rate and breathing to "drive tacks" at 100 yards; or powder clay disks hurling through the air. One must clear their mind of all thoughts but the thought of "drilling center" on the target.
I held a high-pressure job as a project manager. (Everybody gets a bite of you!) I would go to the shooting range often to clear my mind and focus on a "bulls-eye" for an hour or two after work.
Co-workers who discovered my means of releasing tensions were...uneasy about it. Some suspected that I fantasized about shooting them; when in fact, work, troubles, personalities were the furthest thing from my mind as I looked down the sights at a paper target, or tracked the arc of a clay pigeon.
I even got a couple of my co-workers to take up the sport of target shooting. They could not believe how relaxed and refreshed they felt after coming from the shooting range.
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#61, Moncursalion-our-last-great-captain. wrote:
Freeclench
I assume by your references to the "Republican" party and "your" radio shows you consider me to be a descendent of the quasi-communists of the "Mayflower".
The descendents of the proto-socialist Puritains are mostly liberals and Democrats.
The ancestors of Republicans and conservatives are mostly those who imported and the Medieval manorial system to the New World, and fought in the American Civil War to keep their noble tradition of slavery intact.
(Lincoln was a Republican; after the Civil War, the South effectively captured the Republican party.)
May I assure you that I am a pure bred Northumbrian of Northumbria ; a country found between England and Scotland, bordering the German Sea.
Perhaps my presumption can be excused in light of the fact that this blog is specifically about American politics. Anyway, you speak English well.
I have not experienced radio transmissions from the New World, but as I have yet to hear more than a bare handful of cogent and grammatically correct utterances from the rulers of those lands via the televison media I must suppose that the equivalent of our "Talk Radio" over there must be a torture straight from the 6th level of Hades.
I wouldn't know, never having been to Greece. But it's an opportunity to listen to paranoid conspiracy theories like this one:
As to the latest fad of the typical leftist crypto-fascists; "Global Warming", had our scientists decided where in the aeons long cycle of plantetary meterology we were/are?
I seem to recollect that all areas of the planet have variousley been tropical or under a mile or two of ice at times.
I am certain that if the planet is getting warmer or indeed colder then it will or it won't.
I'd say that falls into the "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" category. There is broad scientific acceptance of the proposition that human industry is changing the Earth's climate in ways making it less congenial to us: and the fact you cite, that in the past the Earth has had climates we would not survive well in, does not change anything.
-FreeClench
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Sean's Pa,
From another blogI concur.
;-)
ed
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92, seanspa --
Was it you who said on some thread or other that you have a website or that you know of a website for selling books or stuff or something? (Not Amazon!)
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Mr. Webb,
I would just like to say that there is an urban population in Canada that ussually does not vote conservative. I also agree with you when you say that Stephen Harper is farther right than Obama. It is a sad day when Canadian's uniqueness of being 'not-America' is turned into American lappies by our illegitimate prime minister.
He does not have the support of majority of Canadians in our house but the way our electoral system works, the less populated rural areas of Canada get a larger decision making choice.
It results in Urban Canadians such as me to be outraged at his conservative policies, which do not reflect the usual progressive politics that Canada is used to.
So despite the insulting comments that you have recieved from the media strangling conservatives in my country, I applaud you on expressing your opinion. That is something even conservative MPs are having trouble doing right now under Stephen Harpers gag orders.
-A young Canadian of Winnipeg
P.S. before a conservative says to me - I live in the city- Let me ask you, are the poor in poverty because they are lazy? If you answered yes then I think I know why you voted conservative.
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In the name of the sophist illusion of national self determination the idiot Ghandi gave the Indian sub-continent the chance to massacre 10 to 15 million of each other during partition, followed up by the creation of an endemically corrupt and farcical, dynastically governed hell-hole of caste discrimination that would shame the KKK.
Mandela must squirm at the tribalist ignoramuses that have,are and will follow him , curing aids with garlic and allowing mobs outside the high court to decide justice and as for that egotistical self publicist the Dalai (pardon me for stepping on an ant!) Lama and the parade of besotted hollywoodians crying into their spirulina smoothies about the poor Tibetans, who were, are and always will be just another backward hill tribe with nothing to offer the rest of the world except bad tea and if the Chinese ever allow it, tacky souvenirs.
I must admit to being happier with the crowd in my corner; evil bar-stewards the lot of them but honest in their own way.
Give me Ghengis Khan over self righteous accidental genocidalists like Ghandi any day of the week!
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timewaits, I don't have a problem with guns or hunting, mostly. I don't own one but a lot of the people I know around here do. Hunting is big here. But I would like to be the one who says who can have a gun and who can't (man, how authoritarian is that!). Really, there should be serious restrictions, but the criteria for gun-ownership should be good character, competence, and common sense, not just whether one has ever committed a crime. In fact, there are probably a lot of ex-felons who would be more trustworthy with a gun than some non-criminals (or pre-criminals) who are just plain stupid, or mean. If an intelligence test were required before purchase, a lot fewer people would own guns.
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I wouldn't worry about Rush. Over the years, his health and credibility have gotten much worse, so now he's limited to a tiny booth with a crappy camera trained on him. I bet his salary has dropped a mite, too, because of his drug related fiasco, and all the others he stuck his fat mouth in.... Honestly, the man is only good for taking a potshot at these days, too bad the GOP hadn't figured that out until it was too late!
I really don't like the man; he strikes me as a loud mouthed hypocrite, along with that crazy blonde Coulter Fox News seems to support.
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When I Paint my Masterpiece
(hint: enter and let the mouse play)
;-)
ed
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Ref 99 moncursalion...etc...etc.
Are you feeling well today? You seem to be rambling a bit. Maybe a walk to the pub and pint will brighten your disposition.
Careful crossing the motorway. Don't bite the dogs on your way.
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1,10,
Left and right in America? Well, that's an old joke, isn't it? (If you agree, skip this post until your eyes meet "31")
In the USA, you have right and fundamentalist right. The first party at least tries to get out of this mess, the second one desperately wants to make the mess even worse. It looks like they really want an Economic Armageddon, to comfort the religious half.
I for one would like to see humanity develop into an intelligent race instead of devolving into a layer of fossils in future soil, though.
Maybe it's time to understand that working harder, harder and even harder will not solve our economic problem, but only benefit the top management and the shareholders of the large companies.
(if this sounds familiar: in the Middle Ages we called that warlords and aristocracy in city states. In comes virtual money, out goes sword and shield.)
The solution is simple: Part-time work for all, with a guarantee to enjoy a real life next to that. For the first time in history we have a chance to change society into something nice, but instead of taking the opportunity, we stubbornly keep on clenching to medieval paradigms.
"Keep on day-dreaming"?
At worst, contemporary reality will collapse into a nightmare-come-true, at best we will go on creating debts that skyrocket into the zillions and remain in our global and ever accelerating merry-go-round...
Capitalism and its profits? We need a sensible form of it. A global economy? For some products, yes. Others, for example food and energy, should be produced close-by. But protectionism is certainly a monster (look around, are the politicians starting to make this mistake again?)
The few that really want to work hard 24/7 to get a lot of money and gadgets (and expensive safety), let them rightfully do so. But let's get rid of these ridiculous profits and salaries that belong to the same trickle-down fairy tale of Bush Inc.
31, "..the art of Economics... " beautifully said. It is not science, due to its vulnerability to the mass psyche and is not completely similar to religion either.
So, where are the brave artists who can shape this economic change? Where are the wise and rich who admit that billions should not be transported to tax paradises, just to ensure the safety of their offspring?
Where is the economic responsibility of the Great Money Makers in times of need? Are they afraid to put their gains of the last decades at risk or is it just simple greed, in another flavor?
59, Ed,
Economic Left/Right: -6.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.56
Two possibilities: either the test is flawed, or lefties are the only ones who have time to blog. The righties are still working.
78, Snowboarding, that's surfing down.
94, We used cars to kill the pheasants, once and a while. We stopped doing that 30 years ago, but there are still many of them on the island I was born. Human made diseases killed off most of the rabbit population, though.
Rush Limbaugh? Who the heck is that? Some character in a Coen Brothers movie? I like Rush, though. Great Canadian Symphonic Rock!
Viva La Evolucion.
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73 bere
I agree about the ambivalence factor. And some of the questions appear to create false dichotomies.
(TempEd, I'm -6.62/-5.74. At least today.)
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99 Umm... (Oops, British website) Errr... I don't recall ever reading anything about Gandhi supporting partition of India. Or having anything whatsoever to do with support for the caste system, which predated him by oh, 2,000 years, give or take a millenia.
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94 publiusdetroit
I understand about the target shooting. I tried it years ago (both pistol and rifle) but despite being a good shot, I noticed that it was too addictive.
So instead, I got two even more addicting hobbies, birding (less expensive than shooting them) and martial arts (more expensive than guns & birds combined.) Particularly for the latter, it's a great stress relief- nothing makes you forget about a bad day like sparring with someone intent on reminding you about the law of gravity, the hard way...
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104 dutchange
I beg to differ. The Lefties have just figured out how to work hard, and have a life, too!
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Ref: # 59 ..... and the Test........ which had far too many instructions I might add.
I think I might have overdosed on Robert Fisk, Naomi Klein and John Pilger (-5.8/-4.1).
Is there a cure? Any suggestions?
.
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69. Time waits:
... and pass the ammunition.
74. Happy. Funny, but a bit snarky. Must resist. Must do better.
63. Pinko: It serves me right. I had the blinders on there. I was thinking about Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver, really.
The thing is, you get used to thinking of Ottawa the way it was. But time sneaks up on you: The National Capital Region now has well over a million people, and is the fourth largest metropolitan area in the country. Makes you realize that D. Aubrey Moody was Reeve a long, long time ago. Strangely, too, there used to be a place called Hull (pronounced Ull), right where the Gatineau flows into the Ottawa. Seems to have vanished. Can't imagine why, eh.
67, 68, 70, Ed. It's what happens when we don't take negative externalities into account when making our energy supply decisions. I'm with you on the conservation issue.
Another thing that would employ a lot of people and would work to the long term benefit of the country would be large scale adoption of residential in-ground heat pumps. Used a lot in e.g., Sweden. Not used very much in Canada. Guess that wouldn't be a good thing on which to spend economic stimulus money.
65. Peterbo. Yes, that's true, but it rather misses the point.
Notwithstanding all the goverment propaganda spewed over the air-waves, (it comes off with Lysol, but bleach will kill the e-coli better) the ill-fated coalition actually represented the will of the people in the recent general election rather better than the seat count. Our anachronistic first-past-the-post system is ok with 2 parties, maybe even 3. But with five parties it can produce bizarrely quixotic results.
The fact remains that well over 60 % of eligible voters would like nothing better than to see the back Stephen Harper. For all his unpopularity, Stephane Dion was not reviled by voters. Stephen Harper is.
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62. Peterbo: Wind 7 times more expensive than coal, oil, nuclear ...
Well, yes, perhaps in the crowded little UK.
Some points,
First, the negative externalities of coal, oil and Nuclear are rarely included in the equation. If coal were properly costed, it would be well more than twice as expensive as it is now, without even adding in the health care costs associated with mining coal, and the respiratory disease costs in urban areas. Oil would be at least 50 % more. And then there are de-commissioning costs. Did somebody mention Nuclear?
Second, some of the major costs of wind power relate to the cost of land, rights-of-way, and transmission. The beauty of most of Quebec's wind potential is that, first the major fields are adjacent to existing hydro developments, so the hydro corridors have already been expropriated (40 - 50 years ago) and have immediate spare transmission capacity without even stringing new lines (as more capacity is brought on line, yes, new transmission capacity would have to be added, but it would be incremental, not starting from scratch); second, the cost of land in the particularly promising areas is approximately Nil; third, there are no NIMBYs within hundreds of miles of the main potential windfields.
Third, part of the cost inefficiency of wind power relates to the time mismatch between when the wind is blowing, and when power is needed, and the standby power facilities that have to be maintained accordingly. Again, Quebec and Labrador have existing, huge reservoirs. How big? well, the Smallwood reservoir is about the size of England South of the Thames. (I exaggerate, but not by all that much). England does not have anything remotely similar in scale.
Hydro reservoirs function as surge tanks i.e., capacitors in an electrical sense, accumulators in an hydraulic sense.
Just as Ontario Hydro uses electricity from Niagara to pump water back uphill into lake Erie when demand is low at night, the wind turbines can be used to re-fill those reservoirs at any time. The existing hydro generators can then produce more power when it is needed.
Fourth, the wind intensity in the most promising regions of Quebec and Labrador is more than double that found in most existing wind fields. How great is the increase in potential power density in the flow? Well, the existing wind turbines used for relatively low wind intensity fields are almost certainly too fragile for this work.
Fifth, we are also buying energy security. You can build about 1000 turbines at 1.3MW capacity each for roughly US$ 1Bn. The US spends over $ 1/2 Trn on the military every year. Would America be so heavily engaged in the middle east if even 2 % of that money had been spent on building wind farms for the last 35 years ? How many tubines could you buy for half the amount that has been spent in Iraq? Do you think the army would be in Iraq now if that had been done? Compared to some of the defence spending decisions made over that time period, wind power seems like an incredible bargain. And, in addition, no long term health cost, no decommissioning costs, no carbon footprint. Bonus!
All of these things suggest that the wind resources of Northern Quebec and Labrador would compare quite favourably with the long term fully costed life-cycle costs of coal, oil, or uranium.
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Ref 104 dutchange
If you listen to CBC radio and are familiar with Stuart McLean; Rush would be the polar opposite. A very dark, over-weight, prescription drug-addicted polar opposite. Also the poster child for conservative extremist, herald of those American family values we keep hearing about, beloved spokesman of red-necks and crackers.
Ultra-conservatives seem to always pick poor leaders and role-models.
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"The solution is simple: Part-time work for all, with a guarantee to enjoy a real life next to that."
I like that idea. An 8-year-old child once said to me: "What's the point? When you're a kid you have to go to school all day and you're miserable and then you grow up and have to work all day and you're miserable and then you retire and you're old and you're miserable. What's the point?" (Obviously an atheist child.) This was a simplistic view of life from a child who was not very happy in school, but still.
This child has grown up to work odd hours, less than full time, making enough to pay basic expenses, is very non-materialistic, likes eating rice and beans, owns no car, owns no house, has no debt, has no desire for these.
There really is enough to go around if we live simply; it's just that some are raking in millions at the expense of everyone else, and some are forever greedy for more stuff, unnecessary stuff. Houses are too big, cars are too big, people eat too much, everything is just too much.
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109 Richard_SM
Oh I just skipped them and started answering questions. Figured if I really didn't like my score I would go back and read them because obviously I had done something wrong.
"Is there a cure" You sound fine to me.
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111, Interestedforeigner -
Wind power has been a huge controversy here in Vermont, which is most irritating. Lefty state, conservation obsessed, but a whacking great chunk of people don't want turbines "cluttering up the ridge lines," at least not where they can see them.
I was on PEI a few years ago and happened upon a wind farm and thought it was rather lovely, for what it was. Somehow all those turbines seemed graceful. Very quiet too.
Also once happened upon a rest area with composting toilets in Nova Scotia. Clean, non-smelly, very impressive. Composting toilets in residences are illegal in Vermont. Or rather, the toilets are not actually illegal, but it's illegal not to have a septic system and drain field (unless you're on a town system), so it defeats the purpose if you want the composting toilet to save money. ?? Is this not just plain stupid? I think it's due to the plumbing and excavating lobbies.
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108, Via Media,
Nothing wrong with working hard, but don't do it every day, please. Take care, sometimes.
112, publiusdetroit,
Ah, I get the drift. Not a movie-star, but a character like Archie Bunker from the 70's television "All in the Family".
Those were the days...
http://www.archiebunkerquotes.com/4.html
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113, Bere54,
"This child has grown up to work odd hours, less than full time, making enough to pay basic expenses, is very non-materialistic, likes eating rice and beans, owns no car, owns no house, has no debt, has no desire for these."
Exchange the beans for spaghetti, and you're close. I don't work odd hours, though. I work several years and then I quit and start writing another incomprehensible novel and enjoy cheap holidays on the island I left. When my bank account is getting close to a few thousand euros, I take the first job that comes along. Up until now it was easy, but I wonder what will happen the next time.
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A few comments:
Mass-producing wind turbines would also lower the price- economies of scale and such like.
Harper and the Tories are the major Canadian Conservative political party. There are others that could be considered Conservative (Christian Heritage, Libertarian*, People's Political Power, Western Block* and Progressive Canadian*), but they had far fewer candidates and votes.
* Libertarians are just that, Western Block is paleoconservative, as opposed the the neoconservative Tories (Not to mention Western Seperatist...), and the Progressive Canadians are Red Tories.
As for the Liberals, they did lose shares of the votes, but the parties who gained were the NDP and the Greens.
Finally, all my comments on Canadian Politics should be taken with a grain of salt. The closest I've been to Canada is Chicago. I have been watching "The National" more lately, since it's online, I have several Moxy Fruvuous CDS, my dad used to work for a (US-based) division of RBC, and my favorite TV show is funded in part by the CBC. (You can guess Who that is... ;) ) However, I'm not Canadian. I've never even had Tim Horton's!
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Finally, given that we know that burning coal and oil and gas produces lots of pollutants, and given that they are all nonrenewable (if you can't for a worldwide flood or a few million years, whichever comes first...), it would make simple economic sense to get off fossil fuels.
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I just took that test and answered the questions as honestly as possible, so here is my score:
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 0.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.00
Interesting huh; and that was my first try.
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120, Bienvenue -
Whoa, you'd better try it again. Something's wrong, or you've been disguising yourself on here.
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interested and I will try harder to be more offensive in the future.
Again I have to say an argument that starts off with such a big whopper is not worthy of rational response.;)
Coal Nuke and hydro prices???????
like they are near each other.
The price of building Hydro alone varies so much according to the site
http://www.oregon.gov/ENERGY/RENEW/costs.shtml
these are prices based ,as mentioned, on low present day volume of production.
Geothermal is going to be one of the big tickets in the end. ....till we stuck the heat from the core;))
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121
Or maybe I am in the middle and most of yalls negative compass numbers are accurate.
But I will try it again anyways because now im intrigued.
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115. Bere54
Agreed. I don't understand why people would object to them. I find them sublimely beautiful. It's like somebody saying they don't want to have to look at the Golden Gate Bridge, or the Sydney Opera House becasue they spoil the view. There's no accounting for taste, though.
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Bien, Congratulations on being the most well-balanced so far! ;-)
Now, who's gonna collate the scores?
Anybody done any masterpieces?
Mine's here
;-)
ed
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Happy, Where's your score? Don't be bashful...
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#26
He can make girls orgasm with a wave of his hand. Imagine what he can do with his schl . . . .
Interested Sam
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Ok, Ive taken the test a second time and its pretty much like the first one-I swear I didnt cheat.
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: 0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.46
I guess theres more to me than yall thought; maybe the topics have only covered my more strongly felt positions on the issues.
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Reduction of greenhouse gases and pollutants are of great importance; but I think there is a deadly, hidden race taking place.
What will we care about the destruction of our atmosphere when there is no water to drink?
The Detroit Metro area gets its water from Lake Huron. We do all kinds of mean, terrible, and nasty things with it on the way to the sewer system. A fairly efficient treatment system which removes sustantial amounts of fecal material, household chemicals, commercial chemicals, some heavy metals, etc.; then it drains back into the Detroit River flowing into Lake Erie where it is sucked into the watersystems for Toledo and Cleveland, again it goes through the same process and on to Lake Ontario. How does the water taste in Toronto?
The other side of the border is doing the same thing all along the waterways. Sarnia, Windsor, Leamington, etc. have even less efficient sewage treatment systems. Take a stroll on the west-side beach of Point Pelee, Ontario. Not a stroll for the weak of stomach after a westerly.
It has been recently discovered that many, if not most pharmaceuticals are not filtered out of the sewage in current sewage systems; creating a strange brew of drugs sending measurable levels of pharmaceuticals into the Great Lakes watershed.
The U.S. National Park Service cautions wilderness campers in all parks that ALL water should be considered non-potable until properly treated and/or filtered.
Waiter! There's some Prozac in my water!
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An argument against wind turbines. Some of the most wind-rich vistas are also along the flyways of migrating birds. (Yes Via. I spend far more time watching birds than shooting them:)
The "thumb" of Michigan is a vast, flat, open area of farmlands that is becoming dotted with wind turbines. It is also a significant flyway.
I have never witnessed migratory interference; but of course I have not gone looking for it. I keep reading about this as a problem, though.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
122 happylaze
"interested and I will try harder to be more offensive in the future"
Now, what exactly does this mean? First I thought; as opposite to defensive, then as in not polite. And who are you announcing this to? All of us? In reference to that storm that just passed (hopefully!) through here? I require clarification. Either way, I was keeping my head down and mouth shut!
Ed the Eaglehearted
"Masterpiece" How is yours in colour? Mine is black and white only.
Orvillethird
Glad to hear you watch the National. You are obviously learning lots! As for Tim Horton's, although the coffee is decent, way too much of a fuss is made as far as I am concerned. If for no other reason than he never played for the Habs! I'm joking, but publiusdetroit should get a kick out of it.
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59, Ed.
For whatever it is worth, my scores are:
Economic......-4.98
Social, etc.....-1.59
Unfortunately some of the questions are phrased in such a way that they cannot be properly answered.
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40 Jeebers76
Don't be deceived by hot air, Canada has a poor record at fighting greenhouse gasses. If you check you will find that over the last 15 or 20 years it has done a poorer job than the U.S.
42 David_Cunard
I agree with you. When speaking at the news conference in Ottawa, in contrast to Harper, Obama plodded along painfully. One could almost see the gears grinding as he chose his words. It's evident that in this area he is not 'quick on his feet.' The fact is, Stephen Harper proved far more fluid and articulate, and more confident about what he wanted to say.
53 Interestedforeigner
It would seem that not only Obama might benefit from speaking to this Allen Blakeney gentleman, but also some Canadian provincial premiers in whose provinces the public healthcare systems are gradually coming apart. First in line should be the clown who makes impressions of running Ontario.
Contrary to what you said in 51, under Liberal Party rule and long before Stephen Harper became prime minister, Canada did 'everything it could "to prevent, delay, minimize, hamstring, and generally discombobulate every effort to do anything about global warming."
Successive Liberal governments had years to do something about global warming and carbon emissions, but instead under their governance matters deteriorated. A Liberal government signing the Kyota Treaty and committed Canada to goals it never attained, or made any serious effort to attain. Ironically, the U.S. didn't sign and yet emissions in the U.S. declined while those in Canada increased.
I read about this in a major Canadian newspaper years ago.
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Ref 132 timewaitsfornoman
He didn't play for the Wings, neither;-)
I will say that I recommended him to my son as an example of a tough defenseman who did his job well without spending much time in the penalty box, back when my son was playing defense.
Caught your Habs v Penquins on HNIC last night. It looked like they finally caught their wind in the 3rd, after that long game the night before with the Capitols. I was rooting for them.
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Fascinating!
My score on that political test via post 126 is:
Economic Left/Right: -5.12
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.33
Which is actually almost identical to Gandhi!
That is truly peculiar! I wonder, what will the rest of this blog think?
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Every new mouse click gives a new colour...Water enjoys an ideal lifestyle, Drunk one night until 'p*ssed', and drunk again the next day....Agreed. Fun anyway, and interesting that almost all of us (those who can be bothered) end up in the same quadrant....btw, Gandhi was implacably opposed to partition. It was at the insistence of Jinna that the Brits adopted the idea. At the same time partition was imposed on Palestine against majority will, and in both places, the problems and the killing continues more than sixty years later...so don't blame Gandhi
Salaam/Shalom/Shanthi/Peace
ed
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political compass test
economic left/right -4.88
social libertarian/authoritarian -4.46
Halfway between Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama..... definitely happy with that.
Marcus - what's your score?
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Sociology by the numbers, from Tom Lehrer.
The whole video is great, and the bit directly about sociology starts about 7m in to the video here, where you can also download it in various video formats. (Thanks to Brownedov for the link)
Enjoy
ed
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Mr. Webb: While the environment is certainly an important issue, the Canadian people are focused on the economy. Stephen Harper does have an agenda that includes "greening", however we need to get our own ducks in a row first.
Incidentally, a BBC article several days ago stated that the Governor General is the TITULAR head of state in Canada. While admittedly I'm no fan of Ms. Jean, I posit that the Queen is the titular head of Canada as her interest in the affairs of this country waned years ago. Any fellow Canadians wish to respond?
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Ref: # 59 The Test..... from Ed the Bold
Why are the vast majority of results giving a result in the Left/Libertarian quarter (bottom left) ?
Do we vote from an ideological or pragmatic perspective?
Are there too few political parties?
Should we be offered the opportunity to vote on issues/ideologies rather than for parties?
I had expected to see high results in all quarters, with few neutral results as I guess they are politically uninterested. Interesting.
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#103 Publiusdetroit
#106 Via-Media
#137 Bouncy Feline
In order; Publiusdetroit: Yes, quite well thankyou and a lucid as anyone into the second half of their first century may be.
Via-Media: Partition was only a symptom not the cause, Ghandi and all the other "freedom fighters or liberationists"
behaved as immature children will, assuming that having achieved some basic mastery of civilised behaviour on the surface, that beneath that very thin veneer there is not a wild and savage beast ready to burst into tears or lash out as the emotion drives. If there were no partiton there would simply have been a probably more horrific Muslim v Hindu civil war, lacking in the niceties of your recent internal difficulty. Continued:
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#137 Bouncy Feline
See reply to Via -Maria as regards Ghandi.
As for the Aramaic lands and the creation of Israel, whilst this was possibly a mistake in the conception, once the child was born the biggest problem has been the leash that has been held on the Israelites in restraining their actions against the foolish pawns of the Palestinian peoples being forced to act as proxies for those who STILL believe that the mistake (possibly) of 1948 will be rectified.
Israel will of its own power endure, abetted by the rest of the Western Hemi-sphere for their own various reasons (mainly Geo-political but also guilt).
Unless there is an acceptance of and declaration by the opposing parties that having for whatever reason been created, Israel may continue to exist, then Status Quo.
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For Ms Marbles, continuing a previous observation on temporary financial 'cures'....
My favourite columnist, Alan Abelson, on top form, as usual. If the link don't work, let me know, and I'll archive the article...Enjoy!
ed
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"I have to reject this hypothesis, as we, and our media (excl. CBC and the Toronto Star) tend to scrutinise our politicians, and are adulation-proof."
Except for a little thing called Trudeaumania.
"No wonder Mr Obama was greeted in Ottawa by a poultry 2,000 (police estimate)."
There were no chickens in attendance.
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This morning on BBC radio I heard an interview with Robert Lattimer, the Saskatchewan man who mercy-killed his 12-year-old daughter who had cerebral palsy. I remember reading all about this case when it happened and again when he was sentenced to prison. I'm curious as to what Canadians thought about this at the time, and how they feel about it now. Would the judge's decision have been different had this happened in another province?
timewaits, chrono, anyone?
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Are we not men,
In other words, we can only save the Environment if The Economy can afford it?Peace and Perspectiveed
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Richard,
Possibly:1. The test's supposed "center" (the 'Origin' in Mathematical terminology) is in the "wrong" place.
2. This blog's frequenters are not a 'random' sample.
3. The lower left quadrant is "the place to be".
4. We are all lying (or cheating).
;-)
ed
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Mr Webb, your grasp of Canadian politics and Party leanings is somewhat lacking.......fasile. springs to mind.
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#148 Bouncy feline
I believe the Origin to be skewed, as I doubt whether you are all the Saints it declares and I am certainly "Nastier" than it credited.
More subjective test:
Asteroid headed for Earth
One nuke in orbit
Not big enough to destroy
If not used Goodbye Seattle
If used on one side Goodbye Lagos
If used on other side Goodbye Vienna
Who you "Gonna" call? City Busta!
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146 bere54
"Robert Latimer" Very briefly, I have not refreshed my memory re: specifics and can only speak for myself, but believe this is the majority view (disabled persons' groups aside).
This was a tragic mercy killing and I believe many people could identify. As I recall he was found guilty on a lesser charge. The jury was shocked/surprised that there is a mandatory 10 year sentence. They regretted finding him guilty as they did not wish him to serve such a long sentence. But.... he admitted killing his daughter so they really had no choice. Had he said nothing I'm sure the outcome would have been different. We saw no reason for a family man who loved his daughter to spend 10 years in prison. He did not need to be rehabilitated.
The mandatory sentence is a Federal law, so the province does not matter. I do not believe the Judge was happy with it either. As I recall there was an outcry to change the sentencing law to accommodate cases like this. I could be disputed on some of these "facts."
I am next of kin to a lifelong disabled aunt who will turn 90 in March. She has been telling me for the last 10 years she wishes to die. I am not planning on assisting her in that endeavour, but would like to see her wish granted.
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140 arewenotmen
"her interest in the affairs of this country waned years ago."
I do not believe the Queen's interest has waned in the least, but instead has been asked to keep a lower profile by the Canadian government. A monarchy debate, we do not need. I think many would be surprised by her knowledge of Canada. She probably knows as much about our history as any Canadian Historian. I do not doubt that our Governor General consulted her about the recent suspension of Parliament.
I am a fan of GG Jean. She has class, style, grace and is multi-lingual. I am proud to have her on the international stage as she represents today's Canada.
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151, timewaits --
I do not remember specific details from way back when either, and the interview was at 5:30 this morning so I may have misheard some things due to grogginess, but I thought Latimer said something about not having had a jury trial and that the judge decided the sentence, and that he (Latimer) felt that a jury would have acquitted him. I wondered if perhaps there had been a plea bargain, if you have that sort of thing in Canada. But if it happened as you say, it seems outrageous that the jury was not fully informed ahead of time as to the consequences of their verdict. I suppose some would say that that is not relevant, but it should be. I know this sort of thing happens here too. The jury could have engaged in nullification, deciding on a verdict contrary to the law.
Your dilemma with your aunt sounds heartwrenching. I think it is wrong to force people to live beyond what they wish to. I was in a similar situation once with a close relative and one of his doctors looked me straight in the eye and said, "Dehydration and malnutrition is not a painful state." It took a moment for this to register, then I replied, "Thank you." And that is all that was said on the subject. But this was not about withholding anything, it was about not forcing sustenance on someone who rejected it.
And I think forcing someone like Tracy Latimer, who had very little cognition and suffered great pain constantly, to live a life of nothing but that pain is completely inhumane.
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#152 Timewaitsfornoman
How true your name is.
Her Majesty Queen Elisabeth the Second of England is a remarkable woman, who if still an executively empowered Empress of India and Her other Dominions and Territories would have, and could still, guide them toward the higher ground that H.M has so steadfastly occupied these last 56 years.
NO politician of ANY country has or is likely to surpass her in duty, diligence or dignity.
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Oi Ed what did that eagle do to you?
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142 Moncursalion
The premise that desiring self-determination and independence is "childish" is more than a bit chilling. Or is it that you believe it childish to not expect partition to turn people to their baser natures?
Your statement is unclear, but could be interpreted as subtle racism. Is it wrong for Indians to want self determination? Were they somehow inherently uncivilized and more "savage" than, say, the American colonists? Many of who practiced slavery that was perhaps as violent and destructive and degrading as the caste system?
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130 publius
I have no problem w. limited, responsible hunting. Here in Western PA, though, some of the yahoos never set foot in the woods before deer season, and then never set foot unless well lubricated, shall we say, with liberal quantities of alcohol. I grew up around true outdoorsmen who knew and respected the land.
You can take all the pheasants and chukars you want, since they don't belong here anyway.
And since we've killed all the predators (coyotes don't count) then we have to hunt, to control the deer numbers.
As to wind farms: siting is everything. There is a big controversy here because in PA, the ridges of the Appalachians, where they want to place the turbines, are critical migration routes for birds. The destruction of ridgetop forest removes critical habitat.
I'm no expert, but turbine design plays a part, too. Nocturnal migration turns deadly for thousands of birds and bats because turbine blades 200m or longer spin silently, at hundreds of kph at the tips. Some turbines have been designed to minimize this, and there is discussion of shutting them down during peak migration periods.
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Ref 140 arewenotmen
The BBC in stating that the role of Governor General is titular must have forgotten about the prorogue of the Canadian Parlement last December.
Michaelle Jean exercised the duties of her office during a volitile moment within the Canadian Parliment that was likely to lead to a "snap" election; the result of which was not likely to change anything decided in the previous elections of a few months prior. I think it was a wise move on the part of the GG to allow cooler heads to prevail.
One can only imagine the effects the Canadian economy might have suffered with the divisions in Parliment, as they stood at that time, stalemating actions of both the Prime Minister and Parliment.
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130. Publius: Lots of studies, not aware that any of them have found any evidence that wind turbines have any effect on birds.
134. Robloop: Yes, we are the very worst on the entire planet. Of course that ought to mean we can make the most dramatic improvements at the lowest cost.
No, the Liberals were in a different league. They may not have done well, but their hearts were in the right place - they at least signed Kyoto. Harper, on the other hand ... there was a big meeting in Australia where Canada stood essentially alone in blocking progress on global warming.
...this Allen Blakeney gentleman."
Tommy Douglas and Woodrow Lloyd may be the fathers of public medical care in Canada, but Allen Blakeney must surely have been the delivery ward Doctor. He did an enormous amount of the heavy lifting both when he was treasurer and then as health minister that made medicare a practical reality in Saskatchewan.
The humbling of the Doctors in the Doctor's strike in 1963(?) 1964(?) (when he was health minister) is what gave the other governments the courage to follow Saskatchewan's lead and bring in a national program.
There is no man living who bore greater responsibility, or merits greater credit, for the introduction of public health care in Canada. He is a giant.
People think that medicare is too expensive.
Not so.
Tommy Douglas' view, forged in the crucible of the Depression, was that if they were beholden to the banks they would not be free to choose policy. Therefore, they would have as much socialism as they could pay for without going into debt, and no more.
Consequently, they decided to find a way to bring in medicare, and to live within their means at the same time.
During the entire time Allen Blakeney was in public service in Saskatchewan either as a civil servant (1950 - 1960) or as a politician on the government benches (1960 - 1964, 1970 - 1981), the CCF ran a deficit only once.
If only other governments elsewhere had behaved as prudently with money as the CCF did (and, indeed, as the federal government did while Paul Martin was minister of finance), we might not be in the fix we're in now. These were very practical men.
I should perhaps point out that the Progressives, whence the CCF arose, were dominated by Methodists and United Church followers. Douglas himself was both a minister and amateur boxing champion of Manitoba as a young man (I have forgotten the weight class). Blakeney was (and no doubt still is) a baptist, and while never ostentatious in his beliefs, was clearly dedicated to living them for the betterment of others.
It was often said that the Progressives (and later the CCF) were more of a religious movement than a political party. This was undoubtedly true. But if the religious right of our times represents, and clings to, the worst of the old testament, the Progressives and the CCF were motivated by the best of the new testament.
Bringing in medicare was thus not merely a political act, but also an extension of their beliefs.
There is a fair lesson in this, too.
If the Obama government is serious about introducing public health care, Allen Blakeney is the man they need to contact.
As a footnote that may be of interest to you, in his retirement, among other tasks, he was seconded to the government of South Africa to aid in amending the South African constitution.
140. The Queen is Canada's head of state.
As successive Prime Minsters have observed, she is exceptionally well informed about Canadian affairs. She is also one of the foremost constitutional experts in the Commonwealth - it has been her life, every day, for 82 years.
146. The jury recommended one year. If they had known about the sentence, they would have acquitted. He admitted doing it, and on the law they had no ground to acquit. This issue of guilt or innocence is for the jury to decide on the evidence. Sentence is a completely separate issue to be decided only once the question of guilt or innocence has been decided.
The judge was in tears. The 10 year sentence was a mandatory minimum. By comparison, Karla Homolka served just slightly more than four years.
It became a political football. Latimer was not shown mercy first because the parole board appointees couldn't make him admit that he had done anything wrong, or express remorse, and second because of the pressure brought to bear on the government by religious groups and groups representing disabled persons. There was a rumour that one or more of the parole board members appears to have shared those religious beliefs, but I do not know if that was true or not. He was, however, effectively a prisoner of conscience.
149. 4monks: Facile ? Fissile?
152. Agreed.
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I have been extremely remiss in not giving Canada its due regard in my historical studies and would like to ask a question of any inhabitants who are a-board.
During the disagreement between the Union and Confederacy south of your border did the Francophone portion of your population tend toward the "South" which of course included the remnants of old French Arcadia in Louisiana?
To this day are there any ongoing links between the remains of French culture in the "South" and the Quebecois for example?
As a "Bloc" do the Francophones have a political tendency regarding coalition with Anglophone parties, and if so, which?
All information (as on ANY subject) gratefully received.
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Ref 157 Via-Media
I know the types. Mandatory hunting safety courses and wearing blaze orange have had a significant effect here in Michigan. Instances of hunters just shooting at things that move are rare in this state.
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154 Moncursalion
"NO politician of ANY country has or is likely to surpass her in duty, diligence or dignity."
Call me a monarchist but I agree completely!
I have said before on this blog that I admire Her Majesty tremendously. Also noting my middle name is Elizabeth for a reason.
To paraphrase Kind Farouk. One day there will be only five monarchs in the world; Spades, Clubs, Hearts, Diamonds, and England.
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#59
Ed,
Neat survey
Economic -1.00
Libertarian/Authoritarian -4.15
I think the porn questions tipped the balance.
As for the rest of you, you're a bunch of pinko lefty subversives. And Bien, you're a right wing loony. The origin should be at Economic -1.00, Libertarian -4.15.
Obviously.
Original Sam
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147 Ed with Heart of Eagle
"Economy vs Environment"
During our last election Stephane Dion was running on a green policy, as the environment is extremely important to Canadians. Trouble was brewing in world economics and Stephen Harper convinced enough people that we could not afford a green plan at this time, using attack ads, etc.
Harper was returned to power, tells us all is goodness and light (mention of an unacceptable green plan - puts a pit bull in charge of the environment to shout the opposition down), insults our intelligence with his Fiscal Update, etc, etc. you must know the story from there.
Once we are confident the sky is not falling, (perhaps it is so will have no need of a green plan), we will refocus on the environment. Harper is from the province I promised chronophobe I would not mention and needs the tar sands to stay in power. In the Angus Reid polls I mentioned previously I always put the environment as our number one priority until recently. Once we have a more environmentally friendly Party in place we will return to the topic. As you are aware, we are working on it.
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153 bere54
"Latimer" Hope interestedforeigner answered your questions.
159 Interestedforeigner
"Minimum sentence" Why did the jury not know? Because it never crossed their minds to ask? I don't recall. I do remember their reaction to the ten years. My opinion, he never should have confessed. Let the government prove it. But he comes across as a very honourable man and could not tell a lie.
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159. Interestedforeigner
Thanks for the trouble you took in expanding on Allen Blakeney. Having read both Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the new South African Constitution, I suspected that there was some Canadian input. However, and this not intended as a put-down to you, both are flawed in at least one respect, they make provisions for discrimination. The Canadian Charter really does make provision for minority opinion to prevail over that of the majority. If you doubt that, read it again - very carefully, and digest what it is saying. I think Pierre Trudeau's intention was to promote the interests of Canada's French minority over the English-speaking majority. The problem there, is that it is hardly democratic in principle.
The new South African Constitution very clearly permits racial discrimination. No doubt this was intended to facilitate the redressing apartheid injustices and inequalities. The problem is that it has facilitated the black racial discrimination that now abounds from the ANC government not only against whites, but also those of mixed race, Indians, Chinese, etc., and it is evident that there is no provision for ending such a circumstance. That is downright shabby, and hardly something that we can regard as 'a step forward'. But then, hopefully Blakeney was not party to such iniquitous provisions in a constitution.
In all candour I have no idea where you get the idea that "the religious right of our times (in Canada) or anywhere else
"represents, and clings to, the worst of the old testament." It is never an impression I've gained even if I cannot claim to having close links.
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The completely fabricated and appallingly bad mannered non-existent entity that isn't in anyway a God- SAVE the QUEEN!
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160 Moncursalion
"Canada"
If Interestedforeigner has the time he could give you a Canadian history lesson beginning on day one! He is our resident expert. Perhaps as I write he is composing and has at least reached Confederation 1867!
We have a very interesting history and is well worth taking the time to read. With any luck interested.. will recommend a book. Here is the link to wiki regarding our position during the Civil War.
There is a distinction between Acadians and Quebecois. Acadians in recent years have made an effort to establish ties with their American "relatives," hosting massive "family reunions" for anyone with the same last name. Lots of fiddle music and fabulous food!
Voting is extremely complicated in the Province of Quebec, where I live, and again perhaps interested... could sum it up in a few sentences. The Quebecois (the French in Quebec only) have formed two parties, one Federal, one Provincial, both with the aim of separation from Canada (therefore I have an understanding of partition!) but Francophones vote for them for a variety of reasons, not necessarily separation, so it gets very complicated! Federalist Francophones generally vote Liberal with the Anglophones both in Federal and Provincial elections. You really do need a book (make that several) and a road map! Or better yet - come to Canada for a visit!
If you could try to ask more simple questions in the future, please.......
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To#42 Davidcunard
Would you rather that Obama just babble than take a few moments to consider a question? It seems to me that we get enough babbling from many of our politicians and the quackers in our media.
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To#53 Interestedforeignor
Thank you for your post!
I will research your Allen Blakeney and his writings. I believe that there will soon be a battle here in the US over health care reform that will make the stimulus issue appear as a school yard tiff.
I believe that we need to look at all health care programs world wide, listen to the input
of the public, doctors and health care people and then design a program that will work for all of US.
Any information should be welcome!
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timewaits, Interested -
Thanks for answering my questions. The BBC interviewer asked Latimer if he felt the sacrifice he had made for the rest of his family was worth it (or something to that effect) and Latimer seems to feel it was. I'm glad he is out on parole and I hope he can put his life back together and live peacefully.
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To#157 Viamedia
There are many places for wind turbines to be placed that would not destroy habitats but what I understand is that there is not a sufficient way to store this energy or to efficiently transport it to the places where there is most need. I believe that the same can be true for solar.
I think what we need are new ways of thinking about energy and new ways to get theses sources to the entire country instead of just local use.
Someone I knew from the Midwest told me once that "Can not died in a corn field." I really never understood that phrase but maybe it is now time for 'can' to replace 'can not.'
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Moncursalion-our-last-great-captain (154),
and "England" is not equivalent to "Britain", and I thought you of all people, as a Northumbrian, would know that! Shame!Slainte
ed
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170, aquarizonagal -
I received a letter just today from Senator Bernie Sanders in response to my visit to his office. You might find what he has to say interesting. Here is an excerpt:
"I drafted legislation in the 110th Congress to address this . . . Specifically, the States' Rights to Innovate in Health Care Act would have authorized grants to enable five states to carry out five-year demonstration projects that would provide health care benefits, including coverage for long-term care, diagnostic services, preventive care, prescription drugs, dental and vision services, and mental health and substance abuse treatment. After the five-year pilot program, a Universal Health Care Coverage Commission comprised of state and federal officials would be convened to evaluate the state's plans and report on their effectiveness to Congress. This approach recognized that the best solution may not come from Washington at all, but would give federal support to creative ideas from state and local business and community leaders."
He does not specifically say if he plans to reintroduce this legislation but I assume so. I would wish for things to happen faster, but that's probably expecting too much.
Bernie also says, "A universal, single-payer health system that is administered on a state-by-state basis is something every American deserves. Studies have consistently shown that moving to a state-administered, single-payer system with the support of the federal government would so drastically reduce administrative costs that we could provide quality health care to all Americans, while maintaining full freedom for patients to select their doctors and hospitals."
If only the rest of Congress will listen to him.
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167 Moncursalion
"SAVE the QUEEN!" It took me a minute to understand what you meant. You would have been an asset over on the creationism page when it was in full flight! I think they have pretty much exhausted the subject - thank goodness.
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Aquarizonagal,
The future lies in "distributed" generation - every home a power station, every community with some capacity, and the grid to smooth demand and supply.There is also huge windpower capacity available offshore (over the horizon) which needs further technology development (but far from impossible) both for anchorage and transmission...
But the main thing we need to do is learn to use less (energy and all resources).
Peace and perspective
ed
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"enable five states"
I hope you are all living in one of those five states. If not, move there! I would think Vermont would naturally be one.
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timewaits -
Yes, it occurred to me that if those five states were suddenly flooded with health refugees from the rest of the states, that would tell our so-called leaders what we really want and need. Bernie has already helped certify several Federally Qualified Health Centers here in Vermont so that they got substantial grants. I think the one I go to is one of them. Free colonoscopy! What fun.
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172 aquarizonagal
177 ed the heart of eagle
Agreed. There are plenty of places even in this Commonwealth where the turbines could be placed without destroying new habitat. And since consumption is down at night, they could turn the darned things off during nocturnal migration.
As far as point-source generation: A great idea, but I fear it'll take years. Power companies have a vested interest in the current business model of a few huge generation points, and won't be at all thrilled having to purchase excess generation from thousands of consumer/suppliers. But it can be done, if proper incentives are provided for households to go this route.
In some areas of this country the climate is definitely a factor. Our house makes use of a geothermal heat pump, and we do get some wind, but not constant or strong. And solar wouldn't help much for much of the year.
But every little step is a step in the right direction. There is a big turbine that just went up on the extension office's demo/experimental farm 2 miles away. It powers pretty much the whole operation- and would have been thought outlandish just ten years ago.
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161 publius
We have the same safety courses and blaze orange here. And hunters on ATVs. But every year, there are local stories about someone getting shot, or a shot coming through a house wall, or poor old Bessie getting mistaken for a deer.
Here's a hint, guys. Deer don't moo.
I guess what outrages my sensibilities is that most of the aforementioned bad-name hunters couldn't give a hoot about what's around them, and never bother learning anything about it or the animals they hunt.
Don't get me started about the ones I've heard w. the illegal semiautomatics...
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175 bere
I think there are so many creative ways in which something could be piloted for health care. Federal employees, for example, get to choose from a number of options for care, the number of choices depending on where employed.
So if the pols are squeamish of starting with full universal coverage, they could use something similar, with a single point coordinator brokering with the qualified care and insurance providers for all persons in a geographic area. The broker would have the power of numbers to bargain for the best possible rates.
Only a half step, though- maybe it'd be better (and cheaper) to for the whole shebang at once.
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163
Oh, come now, SamTyler1969; no name calling please. I may be more conservative than you, but I am certainly far from being loony.
I would rather enjoy the Mardi Gras parades and festivities than discuss this with you further. The Spanish Town Parade in Baton Rouge was great by the way; if yall are ever in the capital city for Mardi Gras, I certainly would recomend it.
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*173 ED with Heart of Eagle
(My surname means Eagle Crag in old Norse)
H.M. Queen Elisabeth IS indisputably Q.E.2 of England, and pursuivant to the act of union is also Queen of Scots, and as there has never been an undisputed Royal line in the principality of Wales;is their liegelady.
However in the same way that James was the 1st and 6th ( England and Scotland) and as there are considerable arguments as to whether Elisabeth R was also Queen of Scots I tend when using the "Second" to only refer to that Kingdom of which she is the undisputed 2nd of that name to be monarch. Me! A pedant! NO! The island of Ireland has always been an afterthought/tag on/ irritant of no particular worth and as with Irish noble titles has no part in discussions of true lineage.
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Moncursalion(184)
And mine (Iglehart) is difficult to fathom. I was brought up "eye-gull-hart", and told it eas of German origin, but Germans generally say, "Eaglehart? Where's that from", and I say it's German. "Doesn't sound German to me, (turning to another) Does it to you?" "No, but perhaps it'ss Prussian..."Anyway, Igel is German for hedgehog, so perhaps I'm prickly with a soft centre....certainly prickly about folk conflating England with Britain...;-) Perhaps Northumbria will want to join an independent Scotland, when (not if) she emerges...?
Slainte
ed
(AdlerHerz)
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#59 Ed Eagle/Chameleon
was on the money here.As promised, now that there are a few entries here, I have analysed the Political Compass data so far:
Justin Webb's blog:
Quadrant, Social, Economic, Moniker
Lower Left, -6.87, -8.62, bere54 (2nd try)
Lower Left, -5.79, -8.00, dceilar
Lower Left, -5.74, -6.62, Via-Media
Lower Left, -5.59, -7.75, publiusdetroit
Lower Left, -5.03, -6.88, Ed Eagle/Chameleon
Lower Left, -4.72, -5.00, timewaitsfornoman
Lower Left, -4.56, -6.38, Dutchange
Lower Left, -4.46, -4.88, RomeStu
Lower Left, -4.15, -1.00, SamTyler1969
Lower Left, -4.10, -5.80, Richard_SM
Lower Left, -3.74, -2.00, seanspa
Lower Left, -3.33, -5.12, Jeebers76
Lower Left, -2.27, -0.25, gunsandreligion
Lower Left, -1.59, -4.98, allmymarbles
Upper Right, 0.46, 0.62, BienvenueEnLouisiana (2nd try)
Upper Right, 1.85, 1.75, Moncursalion-our-last-great-captain
The data is sorted in the Social [Y axis] then Economic [X axis] order to make the quadrants in alphabetic order, so the scores shown are not in the order that you provided them above. If I have missed or miscoded anyone, please draw it to my attention.
The scatter of the data above compares closely with that on Brian Taylor's blog, which is as follows:
Quadrant, Social, Economic, Moniker
Lower Left, -8.36, -9.88, fourstrikes
Lower Left, -7.23, -9.00, Bandages_For_Konjic
Lower Left, -5.49, -5.38, Brownedov
Lower Left, -5.38, -2.25, oldnat
Lower Left, -5.03, -6.88, Ed Eagle/Chameleon
Lower Left, -4.51, -1.50, aye_write
Lower Left, -4.41, -8.00, Richard_the_Rogue
Lower Left, -4.36, -5.12, ScotInNotts
Lower Left, -3.85, -5.62, cynicalHighlander
Lower Left, -3.69, -3.38, pattymkirkwood
Lower Left, -3.49, -5.50, Fit Like?
Lower Left, -3.28, -6.10, brigadierjohn
Lower Left, -3.08, -3.62, forfar-loon
Lower Left, -2.10, -3.50, handclapping
Lower Left, -0.51, -2.25, Neil_Small147
Lower Right, -0.36, 3.62, BrianSH
Upper Left, 2.00, -6.50, hadrianswall
Upper Left, 4.72, -1.25, Thomas_Porter
Upper Right, 1.23, 5.50, deanthetory
This surprised me, and think you missed one with your 4 suggested reasons for it. I have a feeling that Robert Burns's
The suggestion of completing the test and "coming clean" about our personal results started on the current Nick Robinson thread, where there is still no meaningful data and yellowbelly1959's #1179 seems to be pretty indicative of their state of play.
This post is largely a repeat of my #1544 on Brian Taylor's blog.
I'll try to look back later to see if any more come in but TTFN.
Post or reactive moderation for all except CBeebies, please!
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Oops - one link wrong in my #186.
The post is largely a repeat of my #1544 on Brian Taylor's blog.
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ON the main BBC news page I have just seen the headline that Scotland is 8th in World according to Alcohol consumption per head of population.
This appalling state of affairs must not be allowed to continue.
I demand that evey school child in Scotland be given a "Hauf 'n hauf" ( small heavy beer and a whisky chaser) at morning break and with their lunch until Scotland regains world leadership in this vital talent.
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175. Bere54
It was the "single payer" issue that the Doctors struck over in the Doctor's Strike in Saskatchewan. The Doctors were overconfident, and after a few difficult weeks the strike fell apart. It was a huge victory for the government.
And it was like birds on a wire, too. Once Saskatchewan led, everybody else followed.
Just let one state make it work, and the rest will follow.
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Ref: #59 and #186
Concerned about my ratings in this test (-4.1/-5.8) I've ordered some immediate changes. The cat has been placed under house arrest and 6 x 4 pictures of myself will be displayed in every room (that's 6ft x 4ft).
Any other suggestions?
General Richard_SM
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165. Timewaits.
Not sure. Criminal law is not my area of expertise. It may be a very old rule, that the judge is not permitted to discuss sentencing before a verdict has been rendered on guilt or innocence. It may be that sentence is not a decision for the jury.
Alternatively, it may be a legacy of the Morgentaler law, but I could be entirely mistaken. No jury would convict Dr. Morgentaler, and after three attempts the government threw in the towel and changed the law.
168. Timewaits.
... and 3/4 of them seem to be named "Leblanc".
166. Robloop. I am going to chicken out on this one. The intricacies of Canadian Constitutional law are too involved for this blog, and I simply don't have the knowledge required to comment on South Africa.
I will say this, though: There are three points that must always be kept in equilibrium in Canada. First, there is a balance between French-speakers and non-French speakers. Second, there is a balance required in our relations with the elephant to the South, we are a close friend and neighbour, but not a sycophantic follower. Third, there is a balance to be maintained between big powerful provinces and smaller weaker provinces. These relationships are not independent - if you alter one, it has an affect on the others. Therefore, a government that plays with these relationships does so at its mortal peril.
160. Moncusalion
No, there was no relation between the two.
Canada has tried to promote french language cultural links with Louisianne, and so has the governement of Quebec sometimes merely for the purpose of separatist pot-stirring, but this is recent, i.e., since the 1960's, and superficial.
The US civil war did, however have profound effects on our side of the border. Britain was concerned about the future of its disaparate, poorly connected, sparsley populated, weak North American colonies, and the war was a significant factor in hastening, if not prompting, the Charlottetown conference of 1864. This conference is considered to be the point at which the Confederation ball really started rolling, and a famous portrait from that conference of the fathers of confederation used to be in every Canadian history textbook, along with a copy of a photo of the driving of the last spike in the CPR at Craigellachie. (Yes, the Scots then owned every bank, railroad, and insurance company, and ran the government. Ah. Those were the days.)
Keep in mind that at the time the population of the North (40m) and South (20m) = 60 m total, was about 20 times the approx. 3m population of all of the remaining British possessions in British North America.
The big advantage of Confederation to French-speakers was that it reduced the likelihood of being swallowed whole by the great English speaking republic to the South. French-speakers could see a future in a Canada in which they would number (then) about 1/3 of the population and would retain jurisdiction over their own language and civil rights, and, of course, religion. Being swallowed by the US held out no future whatsoever for a French speaking culture in North America.
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At current rates in US $ in Britain a working person pays no tax on the first approx $8500 per annum
then 20c in the $ up to approx $54000 and 40c in the $ after that (no Upper limit)
a national insurance duty of 10c in the dollar from the employee and 11c in the $ for the employer pays (supposedly) for free universal heath system including Mental heath and anything up to and inclusive of heart transplant, kidney transplant, if you are working and earning above a certain level you pay approx $9 for a prescription of say a months worth of any medecin required. If a long term condition you can pay an annual discounted rate. Pregnant women, pensioners get these free. State retirement pension about $180 per week single $230 per week couple. How does that compare US/Canada?
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Sorry HEALTH system and mental HEALTH not heath!
As an addition, there are few add-on costs, so if in hospital, there are no charges for food or accommodation the dedicated ambulance service is also free [and much abused by people who could easily make their own way to casualty(E.R)] Everyone is signed up with a local General practitioner, who will send you for any tests or to be examined by a consultant (specialist) if beyond his abilities or equipment.
Currently retiremnt ages are 65 for men and 60 for women, but these are being equalised and extended to a joint age of I believe 68 over the coming years as we are all hanging around far too long after we cease to be prductive and are just sitting around expensively deteriorating at huge cost to the working population.
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192, Moncursalion -
I'm not sure how the income tax in general in the U.S. compares, because I have no income so don't even file, but I was looking at my son's year-end pay statement and notice that out of an income of $16,215, $1,240 was deducted for FICA (Social Security) and Medicare. Not one penny of that gets him any health coverage at all; it all goes to the retired (pensioners). And while I do not begrudge them this, I do find it scandalous that a so-called civilized country leaves younger people twisting in the wind without health care while at the same time making them pay for the almost unlimited health care of the elderly.
The American Association for Retired People, a strong lobby, does not seem to care in the least that the grandchildren of their members are suffering. There does not happen to be a lobby for young people without health coverage.
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192 Moncursalion
"How does that compare US/Canada?"
I could have sworn I requested you ask easier questions! Something along the lines of; "What's the weather like today?"
I'll attempt to give you a partial answer and hope Interested.... will just pull all the numbers out of his head. He will probably do so and then tell us he might be off by a few cents as he is not a Tax Attorney!
Canadian Income Tax Rates. $38,000 Cdn = approx. $30 US. I believe we pay no tax on first $12,000/$9,600 US. You will notice under Provincial Taxes for Quebec - "Revenu Quebec." This means we have a different tax system as we have been classified as "distinct" which I believe translates into "Pays more taxes."
I believe (in Quebec) both employees and employers pay 4.26% for Medicare. This covers doctor's visit, operations, hospital stay, etc. Each province has a different plan. Intricate drug plans involving %, etc.
Women received a percentage of their salary for a year long maternity leave. Partners receive 2 weeks (?).
Canada Pensions. CPP is for people who contributed through work. OAS in the basic pension, although for people like my aunt who have no other source of income they received the supplement. Therefore approx. $1,100/$880 per month.
People of limited income also receive GST (VAT) refund cheques. All direct deposited in the bank if requested.
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Foreigner (191),
Thanks for that perspective! All Scots indeed. I mentioned before "A Dance Called America" as an interesting read on the topic, and today I took a second loan of a friend's copy of "The Scotch" by Galbraith...
Moncurs, There are significant thresholds for the National Health rates you mention, and I have no complaints about the system, which has done me well on the occasions I've needed it. Hopefully, my usage levels will remain low...My prescriptions are free (over 60)
Peace and good Health
ed
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Ed I seemed to get -7.3 -7.5
I always thought Ghandi was a bit strict.
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Bank Nationalisation? "AS AMERICAN AS APPLE PIE"
Interesting times, ;-)ed
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Return of loan gives offence
Humpfh!
;-)
ed
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Way to go!
;-))))
ed
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Food for thought No end in sight yet...
;-)
ed
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#111 Interested...
It always amazes me that the how the leftist utopias (starting with egalite-fraternite-liberte, communism etc, to Kyoto, AGW, vote-l/Liberal-save-the-whales, etc) are never evaluated based on their destructive impact on society and waelth creation, but on the intents of the leftist elites that generate them. You know, we screwed up, but at least we tried (although a closer examination would reveal it's the usual power grab/greed of those elites).
Your post is generously peppered with generalities and buzz words, but srarse on numbers.
In 2007, according to the US Energy Information Administration, subsidies and support per unit of production
(dollars/megawatthour) stood at:
1) Wind, a whopping $23.37
2) Solar, an even more whopping $24.34
3) Coal: c44
4) Hydro: c67
5) Nuclear: $1.59
For a total of production costs, subsidies, and external costs (incl. "global warming" effect):
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf68.html
The all-included count down: wind energy costs TWICE more than coal, and FOUR TIMES more than nuclear. Currently, wind and other renewables provide less than 1 per cent of US energy, but consume app.. 15 per cent of all US energy subsidies. Mr Obama talks of a 30-50 per cent share. Where will the subsidies come from?
I expect the usual mantra of the fast-developing technology and decreasing costs, but the monstrous, unsustainable subsidies indicate that the wind power generation issues will be resolved only in some indefinite future tense - the favourite tense of the leftist elites' speak.
Some important practicalities that would prevent wind energy generation from being THE future source or energy:
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
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#72 happylaze
You are trying very hard to justify your user name. I'd say, the incoherency of your post rivals your ignorance. Look up the US Fed EIA link I provided for interested...
If EIA feels comfortable with meaningful averages on energy wind/nuclear/coal/etc generation parameters, may be you could try, too.
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#159 interested...
Waxing lyrically on the fathers of such a Ponzi scheme as universal healthcare?
The communist block/UK/EU couldn't sustain it. What makes you think that Canada can?
Again, check this:
http://www2.conferenceboard.ca/budget/on/default.asp
Already, the ON healthcare expenditure is crowding out and stifling investment in infrastructure, education, etc.
There comes a day when a sacred cow has to be slaughtered, and QC has done it, in SC. Do not forget: your GP, the med lab, etc. are all PRIVATE PROVIDERS of med services.
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202, Ed -
I knew something funny was going on, so I sold my house in the spring of '05. Now I feel so clever. These days I live in a rented turret. I also got out of mutual funds and put everything into an FDIC-insured money market account. Low interest, but nothing vanished.
Some of us, including me, have been wandering around for the last several years saying, "Um, excuse me, but it looks like the sky is falling" and the rest said, "Oh, don't be silly."
Now who's silly?
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I redid the quiz changing some of my answers to "strongly." Therefore I submit: E -5.38 S -5.90
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200 Ed with Heart of Eagle
I would be more upset about Tony Blair lending it in the first place! Be thankful Winston Churchill is back where he belongs. He is probably happy to be home in the UK.
Or maybe there is a hidden mike inside and one day we will learn all the gory details! A cunning plan.....?
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I must admit that I NEVER expected to discover subtlelty on a trans-atlantic forum, but their are distinct signatures of BOTH cynicism and sophism on this board.
As a Culturalist (Heavily prejudiced towards Male, Northern European Mores & Methodologies) I am somewhat astounded to find very Edinburgh logistician thought from the Canadians, but even more astounded to find a somewhat Stoic view-point with a tendency to irony from some of the United States of Americans.
If one cares to think about it, Seas and Oceans must unite as much as devide, both connecting and separating as they do.
I have just finished a mix of 7 x 12 hour night and day shifts and may sleep for a while so until I awake, adieu and boundless , undreaming , peacefulness to all of you who seem to enjoy the process of thought and all its infinite majesties.
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#111 Interestedforeigner
My #203 did not go through, here's another try.
Your #111 needs a few "de-contextualized" numbers to bring an utopia down to earth:
Current (2007) US subsidies and support for power generation per unit of production(dollars/megawatthour) provided by the US Federal Enegry Information Administration:
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
1) Wind: $23.37 (!)
2) Solar: $24.34 (!)
3) Coal: c44
4) Nuclear: $1.59
5) Hydro: c67
Renewables provide app. one percent of energy used in US, but consume app. 15 per cent of all US federal subsidies and support. The Obama administration wants to increase the renewables' share to 30-50 per cent: that will result in balooning subsidies to keep the wind power industry solvent.
Even after factoring in the production costs, the subsidies and support, AND the externalities, wind power generation is TWO TIMES more expensive than coal, and FOUR times more expensive than nuclear:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf68.html
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Moncursalion
You're right, you must brush up on your Canadian history. Did you not know the Scots built Montreal and by extension the country of Canada? That is why our banks did not fail. I believe all our bankers still have Scottish blood. It is damn near impossible to borrow a dime (penny) from them! Canadian Bank Profits. "Peace, Order and Good Government" That's us! Would they fall into the category of "Northern European Mores?"
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205 Peterbo
I gather you know that in at least some, if not all of Canada's provinces, the provincial healthcare services are deteriorating. Things once covered or partly covered, such as physiotherapy and chiropractic no longer are. In addition, a friend in Ontario recently told me that having 'semi-private ward' in your health and dental plan can prove quite meaningless. Often nowadays hospitals are so over-crowded a 'semi-private ward' could end up being the passageway!
I think that many Americans think that Canada's provincial (universal) healthcare plans cover drugs and dentistry, and if so they are dead wrong. You pay, and for dentistry in particarly, dearly.
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Ref 206 bere54
When I went to buy my first house in 1976 I went to the local, small town bank for my mortgage. Ed (by any other name...) will like that the banker was of Scots decent. Although the banker knew me and my family well, and I had been an emancipated youth since the age of 16, getting farm loans and small business loans, when it was useful, from his bank for ten years; he still examined my ability to pay as if we were strangers.
In 1988 I bought a house in an historic district within Detroit. Shopping around for a mortgage I found that mortgage companies and banks were only interested in talking me into an adjustable rate mortgage (ARM). I was dealing with mortgage "closers" (salespersons) rather than bankers.
I did not need an ARM. I was well qualified to get a traditional mortgage; but the pressure was on to push me into an ARM. I finally found a bank that gave me a traditional mortgage without the baiting attempts to get me into an ARM.
By 2003 my company started losing salespeople to "johnny-come-lately" mortgage companies. These were the type of salespeople that would go to any extent to close a deal for the commission. They were very good at over-coming objections and could care less of the mortgagees ability to pay.
I knew there was a house of cards being built by the finance business; and that it would collapse. I began taking steps back then to place my money into ever more secure and conservative investments. I missed out on the skyrocketing returns on investment for the past five years...but I have not lost a dime to the downward spiral of the markets. So far.
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212, robloop wrote:
I think that many Americans think that Canada's provincial (universal) healthcare plans cover drugs and dentistry, and if so they are dead wrong. You pay, and for dentistry in particarly, dearly.
We Americans know all about you conniving Canadian's efforts to turn our old folks into cross-border drug runners. Fortunately those of us who believe in the free market passed laws to protect your attempts to victimize American drug companies, and keep American elderly off drugs.
-FreeClench
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206 bere54
If you got a feeling "something funny was going on" as early as 2005, that was pretty early seeing that things finally went down the toilet only in 2008. So what specifically would you say gave you a hint that things could get rocky? Getting out of mutual funds that early, was also unusual. Most of them were still doing very well at late as 2006. 2007 was not so hot, but one could have regarded this as simply a matter of economic cycles.
Since the collapse I've read that the great investor and philanthropist, Sir John Templeton, started warning that the sub-prime mortgage mess was going to occur, but not even he (as far as I know) predicted this as far back as 2004. Naturally publications that promote investments don't rush such news out into the market place, so I never saw Sir John's predictions until 'after the event' - when suddenly the publications 'got smart'!
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#213 publiusdetroit
"I knew there was a house of cards being built by the finance business; and that it would collapse. "
A very common misconception pushed by the anti-capitalist propaganda.
As an insider, I can reasure you that no banker in his/her right mind would approve a NINJA mortgage with no down payment, no income verification, and 40 yrs AM - unless some institution - and that's Fannie and Fredie in US - assumes those risks.
The damage started with the Community Reinvestment Act, and Fannie and Fredie's deliberate lax lending guidelines under political pressure in the subprime segment. It's not the derivatives, they only magnified the collapse of the underlying assets - the securitized mortgage bundles that contained the toxic NINJA mortgages.
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#212 robloop
ON's OHIP provides dental coverage for low-income Ontarians, but excludes, as you note, phisyo and chiropractor treatments, as well as eye examinations. Yes, the hospitals' corridors these days are often transformed into semi-private wards.
ON sends every year across the border app. 500 ER patients for treatment, at OHIP's expense, as there are not enough ER facilities in ON. Buffalo alone provides more private MRIs that the entire healthcare system of Canada. Plus, there's a thriving health broker business in ON: depending on one's ailment and private insurance, a quick fix cann be arranged at a private hospital in countires such as India, Thailand, the Phillipines, etc.
My strong advice to every Canadian is: buy critical illness and disability insurance if you can afford it.
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Good spot, Richard_SM
Let's remember that, however hypocritical, it was the right that started the conservation movement and gave it early credibility; it has always been the left that wanted smoking factory chimneys on the banknotes. The left has never understood anything to do with nature or the countryside, let alone global ecology. The tragedy of it all is that it ecology is a cross-party issue, not a vehicle for career politicians, a real-time, real-space problem, not some keep-the-rich-rich-and-the-poor-in-their-place lot of self-proliferating political bullsh.
Here's a nod to the those who were at pains to point out that the economy does not dictate the environmental agenda - quite the reverse - thanks.
As for measuring Obama and anyone else on a left-right scale - just look where he came from, his political 'tail' as we post-commies say. He's a townie, a routine Yankee crook, just another Chigago loan-shark with the gift of the gab. Another hundred days and we'll see just how useless the man is.....
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#111 Interestedforeigner
Unfortunately, the cerberus wouldn't allow my last two posts to appear.
I tried to provide a link to the US federal Energy Information Administration showing whopping subsidies for wind and solar providers v. coal ($23+ and $24+ per gigawhthour respectively) v. coal (c44), hydro (c69), and nuclear ($1.59). Currently, renewables provide less than one per cent of all US energy, but already consume more than 15 per cent of all federal subsidies and support. What subsidies will be necessary to sustain the renewable energy industry, when it's planned share reashes 30-5- per cent, as Obama proposes?
Also, a link to the World Nuclear Organization provided info on the total cost (production, subsidies+support, AND externalities) of wind v. coal v. nuclear. The total cost of wind energy now is TWICE that of coal, and FOUR TIMES that of nuclear.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ref 216 peterbo
Agreed! No banker in their right mind would have placed their assets in such peril. There were enough bankers up in the attic playing with their toys, though. This is evidenced by the number of failed banks.
I am not placing all the blame on banks and mortgage companies. The list of other fool contributors to our economic decline is long and diverse. I am only stating that the mortgage market was my personal barometer for the health of the economy; and I am glad I listened to my gut on this one.
By the way. I had many personal consultations with my sister as to where my investments would be safest. She is a VP at a small, community bank. She is very much in her right mind, as is the successful bank where she still works.
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213, publius -
Remember the fable of the tortoise and the hare? I feel like the tortoise, plodding along with my low-interest account, while the hare rushed into all sorts of get-rich quick investments. The hare and everyone else thought I was foolish. While I have not become rich (not by any means), the hare seems to have lost all the gains, and while I may not be ahead, I am certainly no further behind the hare. The difference is that the hare thought he was wealthy and is quite astonished to find he is no more wealthy than I am right now.
212, 215 robloop -
If Canadians pay so dearly for drugs and dentistry, I wonder why it is that Vermonters go to Canada for drugs and dentistry. Friends of mine have popped over the border for crowns and root canals. They claim they do it for the considerable savings. Are they lying?
And I'm not the only one who realized back in 2005 that things could not be sustained the way they were going. Perhaps it was only us non-experts who were paying attention to the little things, like houses selling for far more than they should, businesses closing, the dollar falling. It was an instinct that things were just not right. So I did not want to wait til everything crashed, even if all I was acting on was my own gut feeling. But you see, my gut feeling was correct.
Of the other people I know who began to get nervous about the same time, none were "experts" on the economy. We were all just ordinary people looking around us and saying, "Hm. This can't go on. Something's wrong." Shortly after I sold my house, house prices in my area began to drop.
216, peterbo: "A very common misconception pushed by the anti-capitalist propaganda."
One person's "misconception" is another person's common sense. You seem to be a bit out of touch with reality.
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lol what free expression.
"The total cost of wind energy now is TWICE that of coal, and FOUR TIMES that of nuclear."
"The total cost of wind energy NOW is TWICE that of coal, and FOUR TIMES that of nuclear.
forgetting of course the disposal costs of nukes.
Wind prices do not go up.
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peterpo "World Nuclear Organization"
Not bias or influenced in any way.
And I bet the coal industry says they are the cleanest.
the oil industry that they tried to get manufacturers to produce better cars
-----------------------
Bere ,Well said about the present failures being easy to see for many. but not those fools that led us into this crash.
74
I stand by the thought that this guy was much missed by the creationists.
PS mods a link to the Oregon website was pulled, containing the info that wind prices varied to an extent that would show that the inaccuracies that peter is so carefully skirting.
He gives a price for wind that in no way takes into account the variable costs due to siting.
same with Hydro(which economically was great until the salmon disappeared.)
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Posting:
166. At 10:11pm on 21 Feb 2009, robloop wrote:
159. Interestedforeigner
Thanks for the trouble you took in expanding on Allen Blakeney. Having read both
Canada's Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the new South African Constitution,
I suspected that there was some Canadian input. However, and this not intended
as a put-down to you, both are flawed in at least one respect, they make
provisions for discrimination. The Canadian Charter really does make provision
for minority opinion to prevail over that of the majority. If you doubt that,
read it again - very carefully, and digest what it is saying. I think Pierre
Trudeau's intention was to promote the interests of Canada's French minority
over the English-speaking majority. The problem there, is that it is hardly
democratic in principle.
That depends on what you mean by democracy deson't it?
Democracy does not mean the crushing of minorities by the majority.
"The new South African Constitution very clearly permits racial discrimination."
Does it where? Please qoote the clauses that state racial discrimination is
encouraged.
Very simple
You wouldn't want to be seen lying would you?
Just quote the clauses
"No doubt this was intended to facilitate the redressing apartheid
injustices and inequalities. The problem is that it has facilitated the black
racial discrimination that now abounds from the ANC government not only against
whites, but also those of mixed race, Indians, Chinese, etc., and it is evident
that there is no provision for ending such a circumstance"
Again can you quote the clauses?
In Canada's case apparently Pierre Trudeau was secretly trying to empower a
minority - which is "undemocractic" in your eyes
In the case of the new SA it is ndemocractic because it insists on the rule of
the majority.
But again this is somehow undemocractic!
Apparently in your distorted vision democracy only exists if people like
yourself are in charge.
Sorry but that is unlikely to happen.
"That is downright shabby, and hardly something that we can regard as 'a
step forward'"
Ther ANC has shown astonishing forebearance towards the ruklers and their supporters of the old RSA.
They should be placed on trial for the atrocities they caused.
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205. At 9:03pm on 22 Feb 2009, peterbo wrote:
#159 interested...
Waxing lyrically on the fathers of such a Ponzi scheme as universal healthcare?
The communist block/UK/EU couldn't sustain it. What makes you think that Canada can?
They are sustaining it though aren't they?
And teh US is looking at similar schemes, no one is comtemplating going the US route.
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Time to take another look at Direct Current (DC). There was a battle between Tesla and Edison early on about the benefits and hazards of both Alternating Current (AC) and DC. AC won because of its transmission abilities across a long distance grid.
It is possible to run a household on DC current at this time. Be it through solar panels and/or wind turbines. There are lights, stoves, refrigerators, washing machines, etc. all available on the market. Specific-use storage batteries are expensive; but the pay-off is no monthly electric (Hydro) bill, and using a renewable resource.
Costs of manufacturing generating sources, batteries, and appliances are high at this time due to limited production. Increase production, improve efficiency through research and developement; costs goes down.
Land line telephones have been powered by DC current from the beginning. The cell phone uses a transformer to step-down voltage and convert current to DC. Same for laptop computers.
Do we really need an AC power grid of the current scale? Or can DC power be utilized in new ways with new applications, cheaper and cleaner?
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#224 happylazy
1) ""The total cost of wind energy NOW is TWICE that of coal, and FOUR TIMES that of nuclear.
forgetting of course the disposal costs of nukes."
Please read carefully: my previous posts discuss TOTAL costs INCLUDING externalities (and that includes disposal costs), AND "global warming" costs.
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf68.html
2) "Wind prices do not go up."
They are high ehough now, aren't they? When will they be competitive? I guess the answer will be in future indefinite tense, the left's favourite one.
Too much sturm und drang, too little substance.
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Really?
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Re #210 , my previous post
I noticed that the moderator has marked the provided link to the US Federal Energy Information Administration EIA) as "[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]"
If interested in accessing the "Federal Financial Interventions and Subsidies in Energy Markets 2007" report of EIA from which I quote, please simply google its title, and a pdf/HTML version will be available.
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http://www.oregon.gov/ENERGY/RENEW/costs.shtml
This shows great variety in priced for different systems of energy production. All are based on current prices of raw materials not the future expected costs.
Nuke is not even considered.
(some people realise that most arguments forget the disposal cost which is anywhere between "dump it in the sea cheap and take what you can for bombs cheap)
Either way Peter who is no rock, the prices vary greatly for wind and hydro.
so which one are you taking.
and how if things are so variable do you make such firm statements. as prices ARE......
Which site?
PS the subsidies you talk about.
Do you think we have not subsidised the oil industry.
We have fought two wars at great expense to the Taxpayers for this "cheap"Oil.
We have destroyed swampland and deltas and fish breeding grounds around the world.
ruined the lives of many indigenous people.
Just look at how we get our "cheap" oil.
How many caol miners die a year to get cheap coal.
Lives that could be saved if the cost of killing people were more.
Peter. your "cheap" is because you are LAZY.
Too lazy to look at the real cost of your freedom from working.
$5000 dollar fines for pollution that kills some and ruins the lives of others are a subsidy.
But you are right I am lazy and you are.........?
No better. though not as good at looking at the hidden costs.
Simplistic is a word I should be allowed to use because unlike a similar word it is not going to cause offence.
But if simple were a town.
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"They are high ehough now, aren't they? When will they be competitive? I guess the answer will be in future indefinite tense, the left's favourite one."
The Wind costs nothing, just the production of equipment to transfer that energy to electrical energy.
Is that too complicated for you?
Do you think in those totals the total cost of building the refineries and drilling platforms was really taken into account?
The cost of building train lines. was that added in,coal has to move to be used.
Union pacific pays all it's payroll from coke /coal shipments.
As for world Nuke org. again. Impartial are they. no vested interests?
no possible interest in the outcome?
You want to talk of Ponzi
Try the nuke industry.
always claiming big money can be saved with costs being hidden till later.
We make so much energy we can save the world
"uGG, But what about disposal."
Now you say disposal is in the costs.
Again, REALLY?
They are not even sure of how to dispose of the watse yet.
which particular technological advance are you plumbing for. seems you are in the know(no one else is) hell where is the depository going to be?
has that been decided.
Hanford just up the road here.They are having fun cleaning up.
Don't pretend you are any better than those you mock. you are lazy
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but then your issue is with subsidies being used to try to prevent half the world population from being killed in floods.
so that I get.
You are cheap and care for no one but yourself.
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To the many postings of Peterbo:
Clearly, you are firmly convinced by your own views.
The founders of medicare in this country were not wacko left-wing dreamers. They were extraordinarily practical men, and I hold them in the same esteem as my great hero C.D. Howe.
The reason they succeeded was because they knew how to get things done, and had a level of personal fiscal discipline, level headedness, and common sense that most people would admire, rather than scorn as you do.
Do you really believe the US system (the most expensive per capita in the world) is better value for money?
As for wind power, well, it may very well turn out to be as expensive as you say, or possibly not. I don't believe the Danes are known for stupidity, or poverty, and they produce 19 % of their power from the wind. I don't see anyone describing that effort as a failure or a waste. Perhaps it is, but the Danes don't seem to think so.
In Texas we have T. Boone Pickens investing over a billion dollars in wind power. Clearly, according to you, he must be foolish. Well, we'll see.
Vestas and GE have been building wind turbines flat out, and have a multi-billion dollar backlog on their order books. But no doubt, according to you, both they and their customers must be fools, too.
I notice that the links you provide are hardly neutral.
If you look at northern Quebec and Labrador, you will see that there is probably no place on earth more favourable to wind power development. The wind energy density and constancy are exceptionally high. If the wind energy density is double that found along the Jutland peninsula, how can wind power be less economic there than in Denmark?
There are huge reservoirs in Labrador and Northern Quebec. Is there any region on earth that is more promising for solving the mis-match between wind-generated power availability and power demand? What other place on earth has anything like an equivalent storage capacity either in scale or in convenience.
All of these wind fields are already served by major hydro transmission rights of way. Is there any other place on earth that is so blessed?
You may think that wind power requires huge subsidies, but the first study you noted was based on the UK, which has, as far as I can tell, none of the advantages listed above. Yet those advantages are of enormous financial significance significance.
I am also fairly certain that you have not included the cost of the Iraq war in the price of oil, for example. It is not clear that they fully cost the health care issues that arise from using coal. It is not clear that they cost de-commissioning nuclear stations correctly. Each group has its axes to grind. In Ontario, the life of the Nuclear plants has been shorter, and the costs of repair and maintenance have been far higher than anyone predicted. Yet, the closest thing to wind power, the life cycle cost of airframes, is by contrast almost always overestimated (as is railway freight rolling stock, but that is a story for another day).
No, I have known some remarkable men in my life, and almost universally they shared a common quality: They were, and are, doers. They are achievers. They figure out ways to make things work, and then they make them work. And they don't make detours for naysayers, kibbitzers, archair quarterbacks, and others who always have a thousand excuses for not doing this or not doing that, for explaining why the sky is sure to fall, and every other disaster.
But, when it comes right down to it, these naysayers are small, small people who never achieve anything in life. I've got not time for that.
I have a friend who has a great saying:
"Stop telling me why it won't work. It's already running."
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lol interested well said . so polite.;)
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Interestedforeigner
Have just finished reading up on your hero. Of course I know the name and many of his accomplishments, but what I did not know (or remember) was his involvement with Chalk River. My uncle worked there during the 60s and 70s and the family lived in Deep River. Went there many times to visit. He took me on a tour of the Reactor. It was way, way beyond me! I have vignettes in my mind; of a massive space, wearing a badge to detect radiation levels (and being told what would happen if it went off), and a room full of wires and cables. I think that impressed me the most - there were so many! Thousands upon thousands of different coloured wires.
As I have mentioned before we have a summer home on the St. Lawrence. It is fabulous and very...... windy! We are thinking of installing a wind mill on the roof. It seems a shame to waste it. And, what was it happylaze said? "Wind prices do not go up." Well, unless you count the repairs from the damage!!
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#235 Interestedforeigner
Frankly, I do not have time for half-mile dithyrambs on the grand leftist abstractions either.
If you wish to engage in a meaningful debate, please provide next time credible NUMBERS to back your highly debatable statements.
Denmark? Your numbers are, not surprisingly, off the mark. "Denmark has a wide range of incentives for renewables and particularly wind energy. In 2000 it produced 4 TWh (out of 36 TWh gross total, about 11%) thus, and is aiming at 15%. Its utility buy-back rates for privately-generated wind electricity in 1999 averaged DKr 0.60/kWh, including a DKr 0.27/kWh subsidy funded by carbon tax (now US$ 6.8 cents & 3.2 cents respectively). However, there is a further economic cost borne by power utilities and customers. When there is a drop in wind, back-up power is bought from the Nordic power pool at the going rate. Similarly, any surplus (subsidised) wind power is sold to the pool. The net effect of this is growing losses as wind capacity expands. Official estimates put the expected losses at DKr 1.5 billion per year, others reckon more than double this." (Pls check the WNO link provided)
Why is it that the left utopias are always judged not by their (disastrous) results, but by the beautiful intentions of the instigators?
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223 Bere54
Regarding drugs I believe they are more expensive in the U.S. than in Canada, but re dentistry I wrote: "You pay (for drugs and dentistry), and for dentistry in particarly, dearly" which was intended to convey that while drugs are not cheap, dentistry can be downright expensive. Possibly it's even more expensive in Vermont. Are taxes and/or the cost of living in Vermont particularly high?
Re the investments I think you were fortunate to run into situations that aroused your suspicion, but also think you were quite smart to heed the gut feelings.
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Wil_Ng wrote:
Left live for the better future.
Right live for now irregardless of future even if within lifetime.
Left live for feelings and what makes them feel good today.
Right live for what makes sense. Even if it is not in their best interest today.
Get it right and stop trying to make yourself feel better by being dishonest.
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They might not belive in climate change but the oil and gas will run out at some point. Then what will they do?
If the argument shifted to energy supply and efficiency rather then the environment (and yes thats important but some people just dont care about it) then maybe things would change.
Fuel efficient cars are cheaper to run - so its an economic argument rather than an environmental one.
A well insulated home is cheaper to run.
Turning off electrical devices rather than leave them on standby makes them cheaper to run.
Plus what about the BILLIONS that would be made by companies developing fuel efficient devices?
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235. At 00:37am on 24 Feb 2009, Interestedforeigner wrote:
To the many postings of Peterbo:
Clearly, you are firmly convinced by your own views.
The founders of medicare in this country were not wacko left-wing dreamers. They were extraordinarily practical men, and I hold them in the same esteem as my great hero C.D. Howe."
Its a pretty good rule of thumb that when someone starts sprouting "let" they do not know what they are talking about.
Its like shouting heretic etc
To describe the principle of universal healthcare as something "left" is bizzarre.
Presumably the creation of state armies was another leftist plot, we should have stayed with the private levies of the feudal period.
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235 Interestedforeigner
Having lived in both the U.K. and Canada, I'm not as negative toward a public healthcare system as is Peterbo. Overall it is a superior system for the average citizen because it is affordable, but if honest you'll have to admit that in Canada the provincial health plans are coming apart at the seams, possibly some more so than others. Evidently the "practical" men have left the scene to be replaced by 'impractical' socialist-minded men who spend public money like a drunken sailor and neglect the healthcare system.
Something is badly wrong when, as Peterbo informed us (and you will know it's true) each year hundreds of Canadians are sent to the U.S. for MRIs and treatment. A Canadian friend's sister-in-law (in Ontario) eventually died (through neglect) after it took ages to get her properly diagnosed and begin treatment. A man I met told me of taking his father to Buffalo, New York, after being diagnosed with prostate cancer. There he got immediate treatment which he could not get in Ontario, and recovered.
I guess that for some Canadians it is a case of 'Thank God for the USA'.
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#242 Simon21
"Its a pretty good rule of thumb that when someone starts sprouting "let" they do not know what they are talking about.
Its like shouting heretic etc
To describe the principle of universal healthcare as something "left" is bizzarre."
Please check "Liberal Fascism", Jonah Goldberg. Social Security and universal health care were adopted by the left, but the origins are to be found in Mussolini's CORPORATE STATE (remember, he started his political career as a socialist).
Quite a number of opinions on this forum seem to be fossilized/hippified 60s material. The pay-as-you-go entitlement socialist/social-dem, statist programs of the 60s are no longer sustainable because of the changing demographics. By their very nature, on an intergenerational basis, they are Ponzi schemes in the purest form of the term.
#233 robloop
I am against a UNIVERSAL public service.
I would accept a two-tier healthcare system, as long as the expenditure for the public part of it could be kept under control. Unfortunately, on evidence with Medicare and Medicaid in US, NHS in UK, France etc., that may prove impossible, burdening future generations with current balooning expenditure.
At microecon level in Canada (the Canandian model of non-profit hospital entities), the situation is disastrous. I can confirm this as a former volunteer hospital board member, but will not elaborate for understandable reasons. Contrary to Interestedforeigner et al., my exeperience of the universal healthcare utopia is first-hand, and my backgroung is in finance and business. Hence my mantra of "show me the numbers, not beautiful intensions".
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238. Peter
Well, the 19 % came from The Economist, and I suspect rather more recently than decade old figures from 1999 - 2000.
But no doubt we will now hear that publication denigrated as a rabid, loony-left, gutter press rag lacking in journalistic standards.
Are you really suggesting that the poor old Danes are just deceiving themselves? Do you think the Danes themselves regret any of the money they have spent on windpower?
I'm betting that if you put it to a vote, we could raise far more in public bonds, and faster, for windpower development than you could ever raise for nuclear power, and get installed capacity built a good sight faster, too. It isn't that difficult.
Look, Ontario is allocating C$ 20 B for new Nuclear plants to be built over the next 9 years. They have put an exceptionally competent man in charge, who they just hired from SNC Lavalin. Still, I'd gladly take the wager any day of the week that with a matching C$ 20 B we could put more capacity on line, sooner in large windfields. Gosh, I'd take that wager in an instant. And if the fellow they have put in charge of Nuclear were doing it, he'd do twice as good a job again.
I note that you have not denied that the producers of wind turbines are working flat out to clear the backlog in demand. Are all their customers fools? You haven't answered that one.
You also haven't acknowledged that the costing of wind power (and the other forms of energy prodcution) vary from place to place. Windfarming on the Vauxhall Bridge may not necessarily be as economically viable as elsewhere. You haven't for example, pointed to any place in the world better suited to wind development than the example I gave. In fact, your comment on standby power supports my hypothesis - that's what the incomparable, gargantuan hydro reservoirs provide.
243. Robloop
We do have problems with the health care system - I was going to make a list, but I really don't want to launch off into that. It would not have been a short list. I think the non-sequitur in the argument is this:
Our mid range, mid-life Volvo has problems. Therefore we should buy a Hummer. Except, even then, we won't let everybody ride in the Hummer.
Public health care will never produce a (strike out Cadillac, insert) Lexus quality system. But it will provide a fair amount of health care to everybody, rather than everything to some, and nothing to others. This was Douglas' old comment about some getting cream and others only getting skim. He thought it would be fairer if everyone at least had 2%.
This is not my area of expertise at all, but as a general observation, it seems to me that there are three big areas where costs are out of control: (1) irresponsible and inappropriate demand (2) inappropriate cost leveraging by insiders - whether by the public sector unions or by pharmaceutical providers or others inbetween; (3) inappropriate and excessive testing of marginal value driven by defensive medicine. There are probably market mechanisms to deal with the first two. No idea how to deal with the third one.
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Ref: #244 Peterbo
You couldn't have used your mantra many times - you can't even spell 'intentions.' Suggest you write it out a hundred times.
Providing the numbers is easy.
Percentage of population without medical cover = Zero.
;-)
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243, robloop -
Those Canadians who get sent to the U.S. for treatment - aren't their bills paid for by the Canadian government? In the U.S., if you've got cancer and no health insurance and not a lot of money, you are going to die. It is that simple. It doesn't matter how great the health care is here if you can't afford to buy it.
245, Interested: "Our mid range, mid-life Volvo has problems. Therefore we should buy a Hummer. Except, even then, we won't let everybody ride in the Hummer."
That's very good! About inappropriate/excess demand etc.: Does Canada have the same situation we have here in that chemo and/or radiation is prescribed even for those cancer cases where it is completely uncalled for? I know this happens here. The profit for doctors and hospitals on these treatments is immense. Perhaps the lack of a profit motive in Canada prevents the overuse (and overkill) of these treatments.
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Lol 245
Interested thanks for trying.
I don't think he gets it.
Put a simple question to him.
Leaving out the wars we have fought for energy supplies.
leaving out the investment in infrastructure that the non renewables would require if we were starting them from the ground floor.
leaving out the huge cost of disposal of nuke waste and the problem of finding a site.(though really people should remember that mutagens come from other sources , like chemicals as well).
leaving out the variable costs of siting which has been totally ignored.
leaving out the economic realities you have pointed out( we could actually make some money and have some industry).
leaving out the examples of Can do that we have been shown by other nations.
leaving out the deaths of people near towns with huge slurry pits.
leaving all that and more out ,his argument makes sense.
In Simple.
Would we do it this way if we were doing it from scratch given all the resources available Today.
I doubt it , and that's taking into account the fact that we have only just started to consider the options.
The rail could be used to move things other than Coal.
Freight takes priority over people in rail in the states.
Marbles was it you that linked a picture of wind turbines on the docks somewhere?
well this link below is hardly impartial but it does show that some thinking is out there.
I like the extra power from the waves.
http://graysharboroceanenergy.com/
But as Ed says so often the best solution that will help immediately is if we all stop using so much energy.
Architecture is a biggy there.
the E squared (that's the mathematical version of e squared) series being shown on OBP has had some great attempts shown , buildings Big buildings with no AC and comfortable people.
Changing the "american dream" home a la "leave it to beaver" to something appropriate to the environment would also be a start.
No new home in the US should be built unless GREEN.
We have enough trash to fix up already.
On solar prices are coming down soon roofing membrane solar cells will be available to more people.
Why re roof with shingles when you can get power and a roof?
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#245 Interestedforeigner
1) "I note that you have not denied that the producers of wind turbines are working flat out to clear the backlog in demand. Are all their customers fools? You haven't answered that one."
2) You also haven't acknowledged that the costing of wind power (and the other forms of energy prodcution) vary from place to place. Wind"farming on the Vauxhall Bridge may not necessarily be as economically viable as elsewhere. You haven't for example, pointed to any place in the world better suited to wind development than the example I gave. In fact, your comment on standby power supports my hypothesis - that's what the incomparable, gargantuan hydro reservoirs provide."
1) The producers supply a HEAVILY SUBSIDISED industry, i.e an industry NOT VIABLE, at least not now, without govn't support. Without govn't subsidies+support, the demand for wind power hardware will collapse instantly.
Your shining example of a demand-generating pioneer/early adopter, T Boone Pickens, is invested in those heavily subsidized renewables industries, and his bet hinges on govn't subsidies that will continue indefinitely in future - at taxpayers' expense. That's a nice and risk-free way to pursue an entrepreneurial dream, no?
I recommend that you analyze Al Gore's investments as well. The source of their enthusiasm for BHO's administration and AGW alarmism is easy to explain.
2) At microecon level, within any industry, there will always be lower-cost producers - as there always will be above-average-industry-cost ones. That's why industry averages are used universally. At your own inconvenience, you may wish to re-examine some of statistics' fundamentals. I must confess I was disappointed to see a happylaze lavel of reasoning on this one.
3) I am not exactly a proponent of nuclear energy. Because of CANDU's structure, Canada's nuclear energy generation wouldn't be the brightest example of cost-benefit efficiency anyway.
4) Will the Danes regret subsidizing their wind pet projects? Too early to say, especially for EU countries where true costs and macroecon/efficiency impacts are obfuscated by elusive social benefits, and where some utopias are considered too big to let fail.
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246. At 4:27pm on 24 Feb 2009, Richard_SM wrote:
"Ref: #244 Peterbo
You couldn't have used your mantra many times - you can't even spell 'intentions.' Suggest you write it out a hundred times."
Lapsus manus, Richard_SM. For the correct one, see my own earlier post, #238, bottom line.
My suggestion: write one hundred times "petty vindictivenss".
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247 bere54
"bills paid for by the Canadian government"
Simple answer, "Yes." And to quote Richard_SM, "Percentage of population without medical cover = Zero"
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peter.
to be a grammar troll
"happylaze lavel"
seemes you are a little lazY yourself.
But ignoring that as you do so many things.
How many wars are fought for wind?
I could carry on pointing out that you have addressed none of the points I made .
Who paid for those railroads. the land grabs etc?
Is it possible to get an answer out of you?
Is the NUKE industry not SUBSIDISED by the WEAPONS MANUFACTURERS?
IE US the US tax payers.Who pay for those bombs, those depleted uranium shells etc. those lovely long lasting gifts that we leave all around the world so that YOU can be LAZY and not expend Physical energy to WALK to a shop.Or live in temperatures that may cause you to consume SOME calories to stay warm.
That's how we have solved one "waste" problem.
Just in case you were ignoring those FACTS as well.
But keep Simple populated. every town needs people.
Oh and the millions of people that WILL come looking for a new home when the sea levels rise.
Not all from New Orleans either.
Keep it Simple
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251, timewaits -
Thanks for the answer.
I would ask those who are so opposed to "socialized" medicine:
Which might be better:
a) system where 0 are uncovered
b) system where upwards of 46 million are uncovered
If (a) is not perfect, why can't we in this supposedly "greatest" country in the world come up with some way of improving it to work better for us?
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#253, bere54 wrote:
Which might be better:
a) system where 0 are uncovered
b) system where upwards of 46 million are uncovered
If (a) is not perfect, why can't we in this supposedly "greatest" country in the world come up with some way of improving it to work better for us?
Because the conservatives do want to cover people: it is not their goal to see America healthy. They only want to ensure that Americans have the opportunity to work for health coverage at whatever prices multi-national companies, grown huge while safely sheltered by government protectionism, dictate. That's called capitalism.
-FreeClench
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Uh, peterbo, Social Security was started, not by Mussolini, but by the Kaiser.
Incidentally, on a Canadian topic, my dad used to work for a division of RBC- but he worked here in South Carolina, where the headquarters of RBC's US insurance arm is. (He's been transferred to IBM.) We also have two branches of RBC's US subsidiary.
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Justin:
i have to agreed with the comments in the no # 1 posting....
~Dennis Junior~
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224 Happy.
I had actually been meaning to point out to you that wind power prices do go up and down, both on the cost side and on the revenue side.
The revenue side is easy enough to understand. Given that the marginal cost of wind power is very close to zero once the unit has been built, the revenue side is going to be a straightforward reflection of the lowest price of the next nearest alternative. I.e., we won't shut down a wind turbine simply because the price available is below the true economic rent of the asset. Rather, you will run the turbine any time it can obtain revenue that exceeds its marginal cost, which is approximately nil.
The cost side is a bit less straightforward. The cost of turbines lies in (1) the generator itself; (2) the blades; (3) the tower; (4) the transmission infrastructure. Obviously the price of the generators will reflect demand There are only three (or now four?) serious players in this market. The blades may seem cheap, and light, but almost all of their inputs are in some way related to the price of fuel. A typical tower consumes 400,000 lbs of steel, and can consume a fairly hefty amount of concrete, too. Obviously the price of steel fluctuates widely, as does the price of cement. The manufacture of cement itself is highly sensitive to the price of energy. Finally the transmission infrastructure typically involves a very great amount of steel, and so will reflect both the price of steel and the price of construction labour.
The long and the short of it is that the price of those turbines, installed and on-line, can vary greatly. Thus the effective 'cost' of wind power, and its pay-back period, are also quite variable. Shell (I believe it was Shell), for example, cancelled its participation in a wind project in the Goodwin Sands when one side of the equation went up, and the other side went down.
I should perhaps also point out that the forecasting of the costs of power plants of any kind, and Nuclear plants in particular, tends to be a mug's game. Like any other government project, once the contract has been let, it is difficult to cancel or re-open the bidding. (Correct me if I'm wrong here, but it may be that the only major government procurement project cancelled in Canadian history was the Avro Arrow. It remains a stink to this day, 50 years later.) Thus every little change in the customer's requirements involves a hefty premium for "redesign", and so on.
Do you remember how the Olympic velodrome went from an estimate of C$ 7.5 m to an eventual cost of C$ 75 m? It usually isn't that bad, but cost overruns have been a very frequent feature of nuclear plants (and other conventional fossil fuel plants, too).
Remember when Pickering NGS was repaired? Same thing.
Remember Mirabel ?
Remember Pickering Airport?
Apparently this kind of thing has gone on forever in Canada: The story is that far more concrete was paid for in building the Manitoba legislature than ever went into the building.
There is an excellent book on the subject of government procurement, written by Norman R. Augustine and entitled "Augustine's Laws". Lots and lots of wisdom in that book. One of my favorites is the "law" that any project built under a government procurement process is always one third of the way from being finished...
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249, peterbo:
Ah, yes, those 'elusive EU social benefits'.
Let's put it this way: if people elect a government to enable social benefits, and they do so, and not necessarily for only one country either) they are not 'elusive'.
Your economic arguments are irrelevant. Yes, wind power will never provide all the electricity we need in the UK for example, at least not without covering most of the country in wind turbines, or getting them in the way of ships in the North Sea. Here, I think, we are well aware of that.
But one 'social benefit' of increasing the amount of electricity from alternative sources is that we do not massively increase the amount of radiocative waste that has to be stored and looked after for thousands of years. Where have you factored in the cost of that?
And you are missing another essential point: all this goes in tandem with reducing our demand. I also think that by now most Europeans have grasped that a constant never-ending, forever increasing supply of electricity is not a 'right', it is a benefit.
So , in the next two years, we will have abandoned tungsten lights entirely for low energy bulbs, for example. Most of us in Britain now use them as a matter of course, keeping the odd tungsten bulb merely for aesthetic purposes. And it was not that long ago I seem to remember, that they were decried as too expensive to manufacture, too expensive to retail, too unpopular . . . But awareness and demand have now made them ubiquitous and even relatively cheap.
I don't care whether you consider global warming and climate change some sort of figment of scientific imagination or not. But there has been a considerable rise in the average temperature of the earth since the industrial revolution. If you looked more carefully at the Hadley research overall, you'd get that.
It is foolish in the extreme to hope that somehow it will all go away. Perhaps over the next century we will end up with global cooling: but if we don't, are you and others like you going to take responsibility for the consequences?
If we reduce carbon emissions, then if the predictions are wrong, we do not do any damage. If they are right, and we do not, then the damage may be irreversible.
You and others might refuse to accept it (because you don't like Al Gore: but he arrived on the climate change scene a bit late, and it's not just about him as so many of the right in America seem to believe).
You and a few others might want to take the risk. Many billions more do not, thanks.
I can see that Obama (who was very ambitious last night) is going to have a really uphill struggle. It's going to be like trying to turn a supertanker around in its own length and I wish him luck. His administration is at least trying to catch up at long last.
Just wait until the Republicans carry on with their atavism and emasculate every measure, though.
I can see it already: 'carbon caps', yes; but not for some open-strip mining or some coal-powered power stations; wind power, yes, but subsidies inserted for the nuclear industry; electric vehicles, yes, but tax reduced on petrol . . .
It's all very predictable.
(I really hadn't fully understood until this year how you can elect a progressive president but Congress can actually lag way, way behind and be obstructive. Living with a parliamentary system where we change the whole lot in one go, one forgets that.)
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If we view Earth as a business we will see it as one that is eating up it's capital (natural resources) at an alarming rate. When the business grows the rate of capital consumed increases nearly fourfold! Who in their right mind would want a business run like this? Answer: Fools!
These fools are telling us that we shouldn't use 'income' (renewable resources) to run the business, but keep eating away at it's irreplaceable capital as if its infinite.
Is there any depth to their madness?
The business will have to change itself so it is run on 'income' and not its 'capital'. The business should use this mantra: Small is beautiful!
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255. At 03:08am on 25 Feb 2009, Orvillethird wrote:
"Uh, peterbo, Social Security was started, not by Mussolini, but by the Kaiser."
Not exactly: by Otto von Bismark, in a rudimentary version. Mussolini was the first to introduce a multi-facet, sophisticated one, that became a socialists' darling.
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258 british-ish
Very good post and I agree entirely. Over the years I have repeatedly asked why carbon emissions are not reduced on the off chance global warming is a reality? The answer I received without fail, "It is not good for the economy."
Why the love of living on credit is not curtailed? Answer: "It is not good for the economy."
But where is it all going to end? It does not warm my heart to finally have the answers.
Living under the Parliamentary system I feel has its advantages, but have been criticized for that thought also. I am getting very tired of the word "Partisan." (Bi or otherwise!)
Eight years on the supertanker you speak of is long enough. We had all better believe he can accomplish the turnaround in case it is full of liquefied natural gas!
On a lighter note: I bought some Hob Nobs - did you hear?
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257 interested
yea prices of commodities goes up and down.
That will effect building containment ponds for oil refineries as well.
just google refinery .those are some pretty big structures.
Economy of scale is the big factor in keeping prices high.
Yes carbon fibre will be used made from oil.
Should we wait until there is no more"cheap" oil to start?
I 'm sure thats not what you were saying.
I used to fettle(grind off welds.lol) enclosure boxes for the oil industry.
fire "safe" control boxes made of stainless steel painted with really thin powder coat paint for colour coding.
Looked great ,smooth edges rounded corners.
will last a long time.
some were replaced every year in order to meet insurance requirements.
It is an explosive industry to some extent. that means dangers.
(not even talking of spills or leaks here).
So they try to minimise danger by making sure all components are working real well.
The firm I worked for really liked that replacement contract.
and they because of the volume of steel they bought got a steel of a deal.
Economies of scale.
That is maintenance . Turbines need them as well. but they don't create disasters like the refineries when they go up.
All energy production comes at a cost, it is just that we don't look at all the costs.
The technology of wind is safer.
I'm in full agreement that prices vary. that was my point.
I do not believe peter because he has simplified then stated as fact the costs in order to promote his story.
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#258 british-ish
I classify broadly the participants in a debate in twi categories:
1) Those whose reasoning is driven by emotions/feelings. It's a futile endeavor to debate such participants, it's a black-and-white reasoning. Regrettably, in my opinion, you, as most of the posters here, belong to this category, and my advice is to try to reposition yourself.
2) Those that bring to the debate relevant facts, numbers, etc. As there are a myriad of methods to arrive at numbers, facts, hypotheses, those participants try to question and establish the validity of the methods. Those participants may have their convictions, but they have adopted them in a different mode that category 1.
Other than that, when you debate, try to read the post/link provided by the oponent: your question re nuclear storage has been answered.
Oh, the bulbs that will save the earth. Reluctantly, I have replaced mine long ago. The problem is, the revolutionary new ones contain mercury, and pose personal and and disposal hazzards. The next big hype, the LED technology, unfortunately is prohibitively expensive.
Re AGW: as I wrote earlier, the earth is 4.45 bn years old, way beyond 1850. There were numerous periods charectirized by much higher CO2 concentrations and temperatures, long before J Watt was around. Re the last ten years, as the average golbal temperatures decrease, it's increasingly difficult to claim any correlation "rising CO2-rising temperatures". Even your ecominister has acquired some common sense:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7599810.stm
"If we reduce carbon emissions, then if the predictions are wrong, we do not do any damage. If they are right, and we do not, then the damage may be irreversible."
What's the price tag? The (in)famous Stern report was debunked by world-class economists (The Stern Review:
A Dual Critique):
[Unsuitable/Broken URL removed by Moderator]
I am not driven by emotions/feelings, hence I do not dislike Mr Gore, as you claim: I do not agree with him. A UK judge did not agree with quite a number of assertions in Inconveniet Truth either.
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258 british ish
"It is foolish in the extreme to hope that somehow it will all go away. Perhaps over the next century we will end up with global cooling: but if we don't, are you and others like you going to take responsibility for the consequences?"
agreed. problem though.
Nukes .
"cleaner greener" technology some say.
the problem is "Nuke winter" is the solution some say would solve the problem of warming.Not many but some.
Some will see that as a solution and I am sure they can find a place to detonate a few without upsetting their electorate.
That is the only was I can see the perhaps happening. And I hope it doesn't get to that and suspect that is a paranoid thought, which it is.
Just saying;)
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261 Time on the lighter note .
you have to eat them.;)
no were they good.
All that hype so there is bound to be some disappointment .
Now unless you got some in the made for the US cardboard boxes note the wrapping.
Minimal.
There's another start to help the world that is missed in the new world of tarting up the cover.
Try the digestives or did you already?
Don't forget the dunk.and milk in the tea seems to add (Imo) (who BTW is the star of the new Terry Book " Nation":)
259 deceiler
That was a good link.
I liked the line they use about
"one's workplace should be dignified and meaningful first, efficient second, and that nature (and the world's natural resources) is priceless."
And irreplaceable.
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Peter railroads are profitable.Now.
I'm sure during the time the tracks were built they made less money.
Who paid for that?
Simple enough.
"The Pacific Railway Act of 1862 (based on an earlier 1856 bill) authorised land grants for new lines that would "aid in the construction of a railroad and telegraph line from the Missouri river to the Pacific ocean".tricky wiki
Looks like a subsidy..
both telephone and train lines seemed to be fairly good long term investments(though maybe the planet might disagree.)
(oh west coast has little to no coal and it is pretty sulphur filled stuff)
peter said
"The producers supply a HEAVILY SUBSIDISED industry, i.e an industry NOT VIABLE, at least not now, without govn't support. Without govn't subsidies+support, the demand for wind power hardware will collapse instantly."
so true to some extent.
you even got the bit about "not now"
Is the only problem in your eyes the problem of having to encourage it, financially?
Just pick this comment a little and it would seem that you make the perfect case for subsidising it FOR THE FUTURE, not NOW.
Sorry if your costs go up in the short term. I suspect you may be able to afford it.
Peter wasn't he the "Rock"
Now were they saying stubborn and un-movable except by huge floods.
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#260 Peter
Pinning the creation of the modern welfare state, or Social Security, on Mussolini is dishonest IMO. Also dishonest is reducing Bismarck's social insurance reforms as 'rudimentary'. His reforms covered health, accident, old age, and disability insurance. Considering no-one else had these policies one cannot reduce the Iron Chancellor's role in the development of the modern welfare state.
Also Corporatism has its roots in the Roman Catholic church and the Catholic Trade Union movement.
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Re: nuclear energy
I believe that there is an old farmer's saying that applies to nuclear energy: Don't get pigs if you have nowhere to put the dung!
Nuff said!
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happylaze
"Nation"
I thought you were asking me who the star was, but see it is the great god, IMO. (I was going to guess Hob Nob - hope you find that amusing.)
Mine were made in the UK with wrap around, whatever that stuff is called, like on a chocolate bar. Blue and orange with Hob Nobs in white. I do like the minimal packaging. I am really tired of plastic, cardboard and styrofoam.
I just ate three. Maybe I'll make it four.
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#267 dceilar
It will be dishonest to make conclusions based solely on a wiki article. There's ample bibliography on the subject, and a good starting point for you may be M. S. Quine's
"Italy's Social Revolution
Charity and Welfare from Liberalism to Fascism".
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269 once you've been nobbled.
you never go back.
I like your name for a God though.
Minimal packaging could do the states some great favours.
267dceiler interesting post about the catholic corporate thing.
270 Peter ( the rock that does not hear)Keep running to a new point and one day you will end up impaled on one.:)
Answer a question. OHH you can't
You're not from a town called malice are you?
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happylaze I wrote you a post re: SKI generation on Obama gets away with it #19. Remember I am not criticizing you!! So no snide comments svp.
Your large lettered post (wherever it is) was very amusing! It was so much easier to read.
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271 happylaze
"Minimal packaging could do the states some great favours" It spread over the border many years ago and I remember when it first started, "What's with all the packaging?" Recycle, recycle - why use it in the first place?
No doubt I would be told it is bad for the economy to shut down the packaging plants. Well then, turn them into something more useful.
I also remember first going into a US grocery store and thinking, "What's with all the choices? Who needs all these choices?" To me it came across as extravagance and waste. Of course we are getting just as bad and I don't like that either.
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272 glad I could oblige .
big letters are not just for the old.
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Time sea vous plait
Though no child can expect anything from their parents it is one way of ensuring the survival of the family genes.
that is why for centuries people strove to better themselves and their families.
many have done that, but many these days seem to have thought. they won't need help. Now many do. but those trips to vegas/reno the local reservation , their parents took have taken that chance away.
Now onto that reprocessing that never happens on another reservation.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/268605_hanford01.html
clean nukes my rear end.
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273 total agreement here time.
It took me a while to figure that whole rows contained one type of product in so much wrapping(as mad magazine pointed out in 1980 or so very well, it always stuck) whole shops could be just down the road in little stores within walking distance ,if they didn't need so many brands. That taste exactly the same .
Same was happening in the UK when I left.
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275 happylaze s'il vous plait
Oh dear! Is that close to you?
My mother was always ahead of her time and was part of the SKI generation before it was even though of. She used the money to travel the world and of course return to the UK once a year. I doubt a dime went to a casino. But, since she had made it clear to us all along we had no expectations. We were thankful to get anything.
I should have say in my previous post - IT WAS SO MUCH EASIER TO READ.
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276 happylaze
The last time I was in London which was a few years ago..... Right! 2001 I was shocked and saddened to see how Americanized it was becoming.
But happylaze if the little shops were just down the road within walking distance you would not need ....... a car!! And that would never do. A Montreal friend of mine was visiting relatives in North Carolina and they asked what kind of car he drove. Said he didn't have one. They almost fell off their chairs!
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