Tiring of the Blagojevich saga
I must say I have a hard time seeing what the fuss is about with Blago and Obo - even when set out ever so clearly as here.
A lot of it seems to be the juicy thought that Rahm Emmanuel might have used bad words in a wire tapped call. So what?
All will be published at midnight on Christmas Eve in time-honoured tradition.
The press conference here in Chicago was mostly dominated by the issues the Obama team wanted to talk about!
That seems to suggest to me that interest is subsiding...
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It's not exactly riviting, but Polman is a political columnist. That's what he does. On any given deadline day, he has to turn in something. So he tries to write something original on the topic of the day.
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The facts and transcripts seem to make Obama look squeaky clean, even-handed and high-minded on this one. But go to the RNC site at www.rnc.org - A) they appear to be indulging in baseless rabble rousing; and B) my fourth-grader can design a better website and formulate a better argument.
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There are a few rabid dogs that will cling to it.
there always are.
Where's all the questioning about how people where conned out of the big bucks.
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Scandal fatigue...when in the course of one week you've got Madoff admitting to a $50 billion Ponzi scheme, the UAW demanding to see Toyota's books before they'll agree to a bail-out package for GM, the Treasury admitting they don't know what happened the first $330 billion of the TARP funds(except that not one cent was used for the purposes promised last September), what matters a potty-mouthed governor from the Chicago political machine having a vulgar conversation with an equally potty-mouthed future White House chief of staff, and then arrested by the FBI and charged with a long list of offenses, and refusing to resign?
We have come to expect amorality, sadly.
I'm old enough to remember the shock and outrage over Nixon's profanities uttered in the Oval Office, some two decade before Clinton's escapades in the same precincts.
Of course, we all comfort ourselves by saying, just because the next President is a product of the Chicago machine, he could not possibly be tainted by any of it. It's just not possible, so we won't think of it. Besides, the release of information won't take place until midnight of Christmas Eve.
Couldn't possibly be anything to hide....really...cross our hearts...I mean, they've assured us that no one did anything improper...honest....
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What strikes me is the certainty of some people that Obama is corrupt. There's no evidence that he's any more corrupt than any other politician in Illinois who has no direct involvement in any corruption scandals.
Would a person who confidently claims Obama is corrupt purely on his association with Illinois politics also conclude, decisively, that *every* politician in Illinois is a crook?
Makes me want to trot out names at random and ask "crook or not?" and see if such people are comfortable saying yes in every single case.
Now, if there is any evidence found of wrongdoing, I'll be the first to denounce Obama, but can we please just wait until such evidence arises? And, in the meantime, is it too much to ask for a little optimistic benefit of the doubt?
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Political corruption in Illinois, Louisiana, Florida and a few other states is nothing new. Clearly, the only reason the Blago incident is attracting so much attention is because the Senate seat that was for sale was President-elect Obama's, and because the far right is salivating at the chance of damaging the credibility of the latter.
Even if Emmanuel suggested possible replacements or preferences, that's not a crime and it is actually quite normal as long as there was no suggestion of quid pro quo.
In the meantime, and in spite of all the distractions, Obama continues to make outstanding Cabinet and Advisory appointments that will, hopefully, help get us out of the mess we are in.
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I don't think it's so much that people are tiring of it as it is people realizing that there's nothing to the idea that Obama or his staff are implicated in the scandal in any way.
The Republicans are in real need of a game changer if they want to avoid getting steamrolled during 2009. They received a stinging 61% unfavorable rating in a 11/20 Gallup poll, and there's little evidence to say that situation has improved in the past month.
They have to be more careful, though, in choosing their battles. Americans are decidedly weary of attack dog politics. I don't know if they can afford another failed attempt to tarnish Obama's reputation.
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Some things are so funny in politics they should not be bothered with. Bagajavich is nuts. He should be confined in a psycho ward until this all blows over and then he can run for governor of Alaska.
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We tired of hearing about the scandals, began to distrust the government, lose interest in politics and then one day we awoke to the loss of our liberties.
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A lot of it seems to be the juicy thought that Rahm Emmanuel might have used bad words in a wire tapped call. So what?
How is this so. I TOTALY agree with Justin.
That's it I'm off to alter my mind. Sorry to have doubted Justin so vocally he really is showing some promise these days.lol
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I have to echo OldSouth in all of this. Scandal
fatigue has afflicted my senses so that whenever
I hear about a prominent citizen who has not
embezzled billions of dollars from the public
trough or otherwise betrayed the public trust,
my heart skips a beat. And then, "jaded" as
I am, I pull myself back to reality. Surely I
must be missing something!
Now, the Japanese have an interesting saying
about their corporate culture, which translates
as "Throw a rock, hit a manager." Meaning, of
course, that there are a lot of managers.
We should have a saying, "Throw a dart in
Chicago, hit a scandal." It would be amazing
if Emmanuel and Obama are not inextricably
enmeshed in corruption, having built their
careers upon it. It shall be interesting, no
matter what happens. It would be more interesting
if they are completely innocent, but then, as we say
in the start-up world, "no one is truly innocent."
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7 wow can't they stop thinking of elections long enough to do something?
i know your right but they aren't. they is just not right.
Funny thing is even if he did swear the context is important.just imagine it was
"XXXX you, how dare you try to sell this seat"
Are we to be offended that he swore at Blago.
If he is swearing at them it hardly sounds like they were getting on. and if they were not getting on there is nothing to see here.
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8 Mary LOL.
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#4 OldSouth
Yes. It is sad that we expect amorality; and we do get such amorality far too often from the people we have elected to represent us in our various levels of government. "We the People..." are the ones responsible for electing these amoral people into our government.
Stepping onto my soapbox...
Since we, the electorate, select our officials by majority vote; it looks like the majority of us share their amorality. Have the actions of amoral, self-serving "leaders" served the best interests of our nation; our states; our communities; and ourselves? Or are we better off in our present economic condition because we voted for our favorite brand without looking at the label of it's latest components?
Borrowing from a phrase from the liquor industry I suggest to "We the People..." the next time we go to the polls...Please vote responsibly.
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#6, DV, wouldn't it be interesting if Blagojevitch
tried to extort money out of the new administration,
and they told him where to go.
Rahm Emmanuel could turn out to be the new
Oliver North.
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"no one is truly innocent."
That's probably true but given that which non innocent should we pick?
The one that uses the system to beat the system or the one that thinks the system is just great?
PS have you read 2000AD the comic.
I suspect you would get a kick out of it.
Judge death takes the saying above further.
All crime is committed by the living ,and no one is innocent so all the living should be killed.
Thank God for Judge Dread. (who by the way is an american )
Its the real world now;)
I suspect the Lawgiver would be favourable to you.Voice operated shell selection on a pistol. With ricochet bullets , incendiaries, hi ex ,standard and stun (boring) .
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Judge Dredd was actually an humanitarian.
Judge Roy Bean was one of my favorite characters
of the old west.
I wonder how he would deal with our current crop
of politicians and gang members.
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Oh, and I forgot hedge fund managers and bankers.
I'm sure that Roy Bean would deal with them fairly.
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I disagree with the idea that we expect amorality. I think the reason why this sort of thing occurs time and again is that the media is desperate to get us all in a tizzy yet again so they can get more attention/money.
When these spoiled brats cry "Wolf!" too many times, we either grow bored or paranoid. The thing is, we give them far too much attention. I know of a lot of women who are constantly worried that every new man they meet intends to hurt them in some way. This is not a realistic perspective at all, and I think it's because Western media loves to report negative news rather than positive. Wouldn't it be nice to have a balance of the two? There's only so many times they can get us to panic before we get tired and ignore them!
Odds are, violent crime hasn't actually increased percentage wise. This means your chances of being attacked in some way have NOT gone up at all. You just ever more frequently read about them in the papers and think everyone is out to get you.
There are decent people out there, because if there weren't this world wouldn't function at all.
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17 opps I spelled the other judge Judge Dread. The ras judge. got it wrong sorry.
Dredd however would have the lot in jail .
a mean protector of the law but not of the rich.
Q though do you know the comic or the film.
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#20, I remember the film, starring Sylvester Stallone,
if I recall correctly.
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Young Friends:
There was was a White House Chief of Staff who was quickly fired for accepting a vicunya rug as a gift.
The Secretary of Health said a fiasco was due to her Surgeon General- she was gone in a day.
That President's speech was usually purple- but not on air.
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From one saga to another. Very sly move on the part of Caroline Kennedy and her backers. With all her media hooplah it is difficult, if not impossible, for Paterson to refuse her. That is, if he wants to be elected as governor next time around.
Not quite Chicago, but....
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21 GnR
you should try to read some of the comics way better than the film(ps it was meant to be Clint Eastwood that was dredd .Stalone saw the comic and liked it so helped push the film.)
He should never have taken his helmet off. Dredd wouldn't.
lol
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#19 Jeebers76
Your feelings that the media loves the drama of our reactions for their need to draw more revenue through the number of eyes that react to their focus on a particular subject are correct. The media can only print their views, or air their views if they can show viewership to their advertisers who pay for their newsprint, and/or airtime.
I agree that there are decent people in this country. A lot of them.
I disagree that the media are "spoiled brats". They are businesses looking for revenue under the banner of their basic viewpoint. The press has the right to publish, and/or air whatever they choose to publish, and/or air. That is the true testimony to the success of our "Bill of Rights" in the Constitution. The freedom of speech and expression that has been so successful for over 200 years.
We citizens have the right to draw our own conclusions from what the media transmits. It is up to each of us to research and evaluate the accuracy of claims made in each type of media.
DwayneHC (#9) made reference to our flagging liberties. Do not take the away the liberty of our press. There is a reason that the First Amendment is the first amendment to the U.S. Constitution. An informed and educated electorate is the very foundation for the continued success of this democratic republic we call the United States of America.
It is up to us; the electorate, to be as best informed as we can be so that we can cast our ballot from the position of an informed electorate. Knowledge is power. We gain knowledge from comparing differing points of view. The more points of view; and our comptemplation of those views; the greater our knowledge.
We should not just read another's opinion to deride their thought. We should read another's opinion to gain from their viewpoint so we can make a more informed decision.
In the case of the Illinios Governor; and any contact the Obama transition team may have had with this "leader". I will reserve my judgement until there is evidence served before the courts.
That is another provision in the "Bill of Rights" in our Constitution. Trial by a jury of our peers in a court of law.
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Will the good people of Illinois choose to chart a new course for their ship of state? That is all that really matters out of this whole fiasco!
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25
The media can publish whatever tye wish, that's perfectly fine by me. However, it's the choices they make in concentrating on terrible things that simultaneously ticks me off and worries me. These things, over time, have significant psychological impact. I see it every day all around me. I see so much fear and paranoia where it's completely unwarranted. Whatever happened to giving each other the benefit of the doubt? Gee, when the media pounds it into one's head that your fellow man is out to get you, the idea of human decency and kindness fades and erodes away.
Every day, there are monstrous acts being committed. However, every day wonderful acts of kindness are being committed as well. I argue for a sense of perspective, which the USA media seems to despise. Negative news is promoted all over the country, yet when something positive occurs there is nary a ripple.
I wonder, will anyone ever report on the fact that in my town, hundreds of people volunteered to help Toys for Tots, a Christmas charity event, so much so that they have to turn people away? Will anyone even care, once they learn of random murders etc that occur in Minnesota, my home state?
I wonder.
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I am over it. All of it. Even Blago's hair do. I just look forward to watching SNL make fun of it. 24 hr news channels have made us insensitive to scandals. One moment it's here, the next it's gone. Let's make some progress in this country all ready.
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What worries me is that Blagojevich was asking so little for the seat. $500k? It is worth much more than that:
http://www.knowingandmaking.com/2008/12/how-much-should-blagojevich-have-asked.html
Unless this is a sign that the recession has really hit. It's one thing for house prices to fall 40%, but when the price of a Senate seat collapses, economic armageddon is surely around the corner.
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The nixon era proved until a story is followed to its conclusion it cannot be ignored.
This only the the tip of the iceborg, Obama has promised a transparent goverment. Now it falls on him that all communication with the govenor be put out in the open with all of his staff, otherwise all we have is Chicago politics in the whitehouse
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Ed,
Good to see that your earlier suggestion and hopes about the nomination of Dr Steven Chu have become reality and there will finally be somebody with a working head on their shoulders running one of the departments in Obamas' new administration. Although I fear some will feel uneasy with his environmental ideas and thoughts, at least a scientist with 360 degree vision will make a change from the "financial, administrative and managerial boys", blinkered approach from the yes-men of yesteryear. Have a great respect and admiration for the "asian" brain and their desire to achieve, in all they set their minds to.
Dr Chu as successor
Now if only his laser beam "optimal molases" trap for supercooled atoms can be adjusted to work on the supercool politicians, investment brokers, and the rest of the hangers on guiding Americas actions in the past, then the nuclear waste disposal repository they had planned for outside Las Vegas can be put to good use. Cleaning up political "fallout" is also important..Out of our sight. Out of our minds. They were after all out of theirs!.
Yucca Mountain
Will it be big enough?
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Tired of Blago?
The 24/7 cable media certainly is not. Each of them still has the quarterly hour "breaking news" update on Blago's latest footstep and hairflip (complete with the "breathtaking" possibility of an Obama connection.)
Meanwhile, from where I sit in the midwest (Missouri) the local media is focused on the Illinois governor's resignation (will he and why isn't he?), the Illinois legislature beginning impeachment proceedings and possible legislation to strip Blago's power to appoint next Senate seat---which ironically Blogo would have to sign into law if he doesn't resign. Strange times, indeed.
Very little locally of Obama's possible connection, which is how it should be in light of no evidence to support it.
More attention is being given to Amy Madigan's motives as an Attorney General who might have election ideas about running for governor in the future than hypotheticals about the president-elect.
Personally, when the Attorney General, Lt Governor and the majority of state population thinks it's time for Blago to step down due to rather lengthy details in a 70+page criminal complaint.....well, the governor might want to at least consider the will of the people who put him there in the first place.
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Looks like I got stuck in it too!
That should have been "optical" molasses I believe!
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Whatta dork!
I saw a little clip of Obama on a train, and based on his body language, he thought it was really cool to be able to pull the cord to sound the train's whistle.
He is SUCH a big kid! :)
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If the BBC and other media were to give equal coverage of the Libertarian Party, it would find a party that is against the corruption inherent in the Republican/Democratic Party Government in USA.
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Ref 23
"Not quite Chicago, but...."
And then there is Florida where former Gov. Jeb Bush expressed interest in getting Mel Martinez' senatorial seat.
I find the attraction that a few influential families have on the American public troubling. We are a nation of 300 million people, and contrary to what some of our friends across the Atlantic may think of us, most American citizens are honest, hard working, and intelligent people who would do an extraordinary job in positions of responsibility if they had a chance. Unfortunately, elections are won by those backed by special interest, lots of money, and celebrity status.
Incredibly, we keep electing morons who. not surprisingly, embarrass us with their unethical behavior and lack of qualifications for the positions we put them in. The ones that ought to be embarrassed by the examples of nepotism we are seeing, and by the political corruption and incompetence that surround us, are not the Blagos of this world but the people that vote for them.
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#4 Old South, I had a good laugh, a real hoot.
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Ref 37
"Whatta dork!
I saw a little clip of Obama on a train, and based on his body language, he thought it was really cool to be able to pull the cord to sound the train's whistle.
He is SUCH a big kid! :)"
Were you impressed with W's "mission accomplished" pronouncement aboard a US Navy aircraft carrier?
The "kid" has been showing a level of pragmatism, tolerance, and wisdom that are a stark contrast with what recent Administrations have done at this stage of the presidential transition. If all we have to worry about is Obama blowing a train whistle, we are in good shape. In fact, a little humor may do wonders for his image...
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No effect on Obama's favourability ratings
Graphic
Peace and Benefit of Doubt
ed
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ref #43
The shoe thrower's brother is not the most unbiased source.
I'm more concerned that if he had smuggled in a knife he could have killed Bush or another person.
I'll ask again would he have had the courage to throw at Saddam or the war criminal Sadr?
Many Iraqies have said that he violated the moslem custom of hospitality to guests.
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#45 Magic
Would you have had the courage to throw both your shoes at George Bush during a press conference in Baghdad amongst the heavily armed security there? If you say 'yes', would you be offended if I didn't believe you?
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ref #46
You answer my question first?
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#47 Magic
You'll have to ask him. Now you answer mine.
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You can argue about whether or not someone should throw shoes at Bush, but you have to admit, the out-going president had some decent reflexs to dodge that first shoe!
And the dude that threw the shoe would never have dared doing that to Saddam. He would have been hung, drawn and quartered. And I expect his family would've beent too.
As for him being beaten, I expect proof rather than comments from his brother.
And what is courageous about throwing shoes at a world leader? It's just silly, you won't accomplish anything. The thin line between bravery and stupidity and all that. It certainly falls into the stupid catergory
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From the archives, it seems the "red flags" were flying as long ago as 2001, but who was minding the store?
You can't con an honest man....Don't Ask; Don't Tell
Peace and keeping my hand on my ha'pennies
ed
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Tiring of your blogs about the Blago. scandal. I think everyone has said all they can say about this issue.
Reading the comments is starting to sound like the adult voices in the Peanuts cartoons.
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As a Westerner I find the shoe throwing incident bizarre, but I suspect that if I was a citizen of a country that had been invaded and occupied by foreign forces, destroyed, and traumatized I would probably look at things differently.
Concerning the alleged injuries, I would not be surprised if he broke his hand when he fell down and people jumped on top of him; the fact that the "sovereign" government of Iraq "released" him to a US military hospital suggests he did suffer some injuries after his hurling act of defiance.
What this incident, and the reaction from people throughout the Islamic world, tell me is that our "victory" in Iraq is elusive at best and that the level of hatred and contempt towards us is greater than ever.
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About the shoe throwing, i think its funny, and the least my president deserves. A swift kick with that shoe would have been better. Did you ever think that Bush may have killed his family or something during "The liberation"? Hypathetical, but you never know. I think he should be released before this very trivial incident becomes major problems.
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More Amazing lack of diligence
Archived here, if the link above doesn't work
Foxes and chicken coops, and all that
ed
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Ref 50
It is apparent that common sense and caution take a back seat to greed.
Whistle blowers told everyone years ago that something was very wrong with the Madoff hedge fund scheme. Those that chose to ignore the warnings and invested in the greatest Sting in history are now part of history because of their naivete, greed, or imbecility.
I wonder how many politicians will advocate marginalizing the government and deregulation as part of their political platform in future elections?
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#39, "equal coverage"? In 2004, the last presidential election year for which there are official results on the FEC website, the Libertarian candidate received one-third of one percent of the popular vote. This year Ron Paul, a Libertarian, had so little regard for the Libertarian party that he ran as a Republican.
It is not the function of the BBC, or any news organization, to promote fringe political parties. When a Libertarian candidate attracts enough votes to influence the electoral vote, as Nader did in 2000, it will be newsworthy.
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Ref 57
What really amazes me is how gullible and reckless bankers are. I can't believe how many US and European banks invested in the subprime mortgage mess and in the Madoff pyramid scheme. I always thought bankers were extremely cautious and did not invest in anything unless they were guaranteed a good return on investment and ability to recoup their principal.
I wonder how many banks will go under as a result of this "sting", Banco Santander lost $3B in this deal...
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My fear in this is that the Republicans will do what they did during the Clinton Presidency; assign so many FBI agents to investigate a Democrat President that there will be no one left to investigate real crimes and terrorist threats - as happened when the FBI failed to follow up on the field report that suspicious Muslims were training to fly, but NOT land airplanes prior to 9/11.
But on the other hand if, Gods forbid, there is an other terrorist attack during the Obama Presidency it will be amusing to see how Republicans blame him for the attack while while simultaneously maintaining that Bush (and themselves) have no responsibility for the 9/11 attack.
#37
As a person who also thinks getting to pull the train whistle would be "cool", I object to your implication that I'm a "dork". :-P
I'm not a Obama fan, but you guys are really getting ridiculous in your attempts to denigrate him.
#45
His brother may not be the most unbiased source, but where are the press interviews/photos of him after his arrest?
Your alleged concern "that if he had smuggled in a knife he could have killed Bush or another person" is blatant use of the "red herring" logical fallacy. The articles I have read state that he specifically bought Made-In-Iraq shoes for his _political_protest_. A protest less violent then throwing a pie at someone I might add as there is no dry cleaning bill.
The question is not what might have happened under another government, but what _did_ happen under the government that Bush selected and set up to restore Freedom. Or is the freedom to make a political protest without fear of Governmental/Police reprisal no longer part of "American-based Democracy"?
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#49 SaintOne
I think you're right about Bush's reflexes being pretty quick. Quicker than the SEC's anyway (see Ed's post @ 57)!!
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Life imitates art.
Dubya's infamous shoe-throwing assassin was copying the Austin Powers character, Random Task.
"Honestly, who throws shoes?"
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Baby needs a new pair of shoes ;-)
and "somehow appropriate"
And this
Pity he missed
ed
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ref #47
I would never show that lack of respect to a duly elected leader.
But I would throw it at Sadr and see if the coward had the courage to face a Jew without attacking from behind.
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lol guys on the madoff
58
It doesn't amaze me any more hence my lack of belief in economists as well, as opposed to some who think it is because of intellectualism not realising it is because that is what I am into.
The intellectuals debate some are right and the ones frequently quoted have obviously been up the creek with a rotten paddle.
There was one who Obama just appointed who was real smart. is real smart,but she was a professor at Harvard not running the show. Here's to hope.And a few new faces with some different thoughts.
Oh I suppose I am bias because she favours a plan to give the money to the banks by giving it to the home owners to help them pay the banks.
And getting greedy investment mortgage groups to lower the interest rates from stupid 13% to a reasonable amount.
Though greedy investors think their houses are still worth the inflated price and so are ready to throw the baby out.
Madoff, thats funny ha hahha
Big deal and guess what ? I think the security might have stopped a knife and hand grenades and pistols., throwing stars etc, but shoes will now have to be added to the list.
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The shoe heard round the world
;-)
ed
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64 WHAT?
You really think your tough don't you. Go join up with the army buddy we all need strong willing hero's like you to fight on behalf of the country and or dreams.
GO on join up.
You don't even have the courage to face your own prejudice.
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ref #67
That I feel I could take on a cowardly mullah?
Let's face it Khomeni was a coward too and had the moral worth of pig droppings
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68
Well e mail us from the front then, have fun.
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#69
It would not be getting to the front. It would be getting the cowardly mullah out of his mosque.
I hope a brave woman will throw the a stupid burkah in his face and drag him out by his beard.
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59
Denigrate him? I thought it was adorable! I've been rooting for the man in excess of a year now, and voted for him!
Don't you think you should confirm your suspicions of what you thought I meant before you get angry?
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70 keep writing.
but explain
"But I would throw it at Sadr and see if the coward had the courage to face a Jew without attacking from behind."
It seems the Guy (big letter he is a hero in his land lol)threw a shoe at GW( who is not a jew).
When did he attack a jew from behind?
You are a racist.
again you show how much.
True there is no front in Iraq , the whole nation is.
And there are kids dying to prove your point.
Join up buddy or shut up.
Face your Bigotry you racist
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71 Jeebers .
LOL I could see how he thought you didn't mean well , but he is adorable , that's funny.
some do not understand the affectionate "dork "or notice your :).
rest easy but don't be too critical either (please) given it did look like so many other posts we have here that do not think Obama is cute.
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happlaze
I thought you should know that it looks like you are getting into a flame war. Is that what you want?
Also,
I specifically put that :) in there to show emotion, which is absent in type as opposed to voice. If people like 59 don't pay attention to the post before they get ticked, that is NOT my problem. I tried to state how I felt about the little clip, but she didn't examine it before replying.
I notice the little things when I look at people, it's part of what I am and who I've chosen to be. So, I sometimes see things that others don't. I thought Obama was being a big kid based on his body language, and thought it was adorable and rather cute. How much do you want to bet he'd never spent a lot of time on a train before, and had wanted to since he was little?
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ref #72
It not racist to call Sadr a war criminal.
99.9% of moslems do not support terrorism.
But 95% of the terrorist are Isdlamic facists
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73
Thank you, no one has ever called me adorable before. ::blush::
Also thank you for correctly interpreting the reasoning for my post.
59, 74
I apologize for mis-reading your ambiguous post.
However, I would like to make the following points(NOT attacks):
1) I was (granted in an off-hand manner) defending Obama!!
2) It was male logic, not female logic. i.e. "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus"; http://home.marsvenus.com/
3) I was/am not angry. The :-P I added is definitely _not_ an angry emoticon.
4) The first sentence/paragraph of any writing sets the tone for that piece. While "dork" may be a positive epitaph among your friends, in general usage it is a negative epitaph - a "smile when you say that" word. You did not include the smiley after calling O. a "dork" in the first one-sentence paragraph.
As the stand-alone you made it "Whatta dork!" does not read as a positive statement.
5) Reading body language is an art which even trained professionals can get disastrously wrong. i.e. London Police testifying that Mendezes body language was that of an terrorist about to detonate a bomb when, in fact, he was just running late. Expressing personal opinion as fact is a trait, IMO, indicative of neo-cons and the Right Wing rather than the more educated (again, IMO) Left Wing.
6) Based on the above, the final one-sentence/paragraph was seen, at worst, as a subtle way to call O. "boy", and as best a denial of O. being a capable adult.
7) What flame war?!? "Don't you think you should confirm your suspicions of what you thought I meant before you get angry?" :-) see points 1 and 3
8) Ambiguous writing IS the problem of the author. I did "pay attention" and "examine it before replying" as set forth above.
The phrases "adorable and rather cute" or "I've been rooting for the man" were not in your original post; they were only in your thoughts while writing it. Unfortunately no one can hear what you thought while reading what you wrote.
9) Please re-read the first sentence to you. Again, I have no interest in your threat of a flame war. But if you choose to start one with a person for _defending_ a politician you think is adorable and rather cute and have been rooting for in excess of a year then Flame On, but pardon me if I just giggle at it.
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75, And 76.8% of such "statistics" are made up on the spot, and have no basis in fact.
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74 I would not bet against that.
but flame war?
What is it.
and probably YES.
75" it is not racist to call sadr a war criminal"
but you didn't
you made a few of comments that go along with you racism.
"But I would throw it at Sadr and see if the coward had the courage to face a Jew without attacking from behind."
"That I feel I could take on a cowardly mullah?
Let's face it Khomeni was a coward too and had the moral worth of pig droppings"
"It would not be getting to the front. It would be getting the cowardly mullah out of his mosque."
"I hope a brave woman will throw the a stupid burkah in his face and drag him out by his beard."
You are a coward , you have the moral worth of a pig dropping and I would gladly take you on.I suspect Sadr would too.
And if you fight like you argue it will be over quick and you will not be the victor.
You seem to recognise a lot of cowards but miss one every day when you see a mirror.
Like I said " when are you going to join up hero boy."
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But 95% of the terrorist are Isdlamic facists
is that because we don't call the wests buddies and the Christians terrorists?
You have repeatedly failed to call any one but a Muslim a terrorist.
It seems that through out the long time you have been making these comments you never notice a terrorist that is not a Muslim.
That is why I think you are a racist.
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75
Interesting (mis)use of statistics to make an argument.
One can also argue that:
99.9% of Jews do not support terrorism.
But 100% of the West Bank Settler Terrorists who beat and shoot Israeli citizens of Arab descent are Jewish.
P.S. note the html "code" and don't even try to call me anti-semitic because I satirically pointed out your faulty logic. Even Ehud Olmert used the word "pogrom" to describe their recent actions.
P.P.S. Isdlamic facists?!? The Islamic Fundamentalists/Terrorists install Theocracies where religion controls the state, i.e. Afghanistan under the Taliban. They would never allow the (secular) government to control the religion.
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CLARIFICATION OF POST #80
I had inserted "left angle brackets" satire "right angle brackets" after the sentence "One can also argue that:" and inserted "left angle brackets" "forward slash" satire "right angle brackets" after the sentence "...Israeli citizens of Arab descent are Jewish".
These lines of bogus html "code" never made it into the published post and drastically change the post by their omission.
Apologies for not checking what characters the site auto deletes.
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proudpagan
Threatening you with a flame war? What? I'm confused. I never threatened you at all.
(scratching my head)
As for the body language comment, I never make a statement until after I have spent a lot of time watching someone. What I noticed on the train actually fits with his personality. He's nowhere near as straight laced as everyone thinks, which is a good thing. I've been watching him in excess of a year now, trying to see what kind of person he and the other candidates were. As it turns out, I was completely right about Hillary Clinton, and it seems that Obama and I agree about her. I spotted the lead candidates on both sides after spending 5 minutes watching a debate in excess of a year ago now. I also accurately predicted who would win the election, and why. So, it seems that my perception isn't completely off, I do get it right from time to time.
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Proudpagan
A tutorialFor <, type<
For >, type >
;-)
ed
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81 lol that
"...Israeli citizens of Arab descent are Jewish".
is a real good example of selective quoting.
( NOT SERIOUS )
are you saying they are jews?
I know this is not what you say but the selective quoting is often used here by some to erroneous effect .
( and am sorry to repeat this but some who read tend to be a little like a troll by a volcano(terry p ref).)
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Re #75 MagicKirin,
95% of terrorists are Islamic fascists? Has there really been a census of terrorists?
It would be a much more reasonable argument to say that the most visible terrorists or perhaps even the most active terrorists today are Islamic fascists. Arguments could probably be made for that. Giving actual statistics require more than an argument. They require data to back them up. If you have this data, do provide it.
Otherwise you end up looking extreme yourself even to people who typically don't take sides in this issue.
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jeebers
You are right , no one is criticising "your" body language interpretation. I am sure I would agree with most of what you observed.
But your post was as I said phrased in such a way as to be misleading to those that have not followed your support for Obama. The flame comment he refers to was the one made to me ,by you, which frankly I am at a loss to think of what it meant.
It could be a jovial arm nudge or a threat or a comment about how I start fires so often at the beginning of my day.(can't forge with no heat).
Obama is I am sure all you say, and good on him.
We are all on the same side.
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85 "even to people who typically don't take sides in this issue."
this is funnily enough where I started long time back , but through conversations here I have realised that sometimes those that do not shout the loudest need to have their opinion voiced, or at least an opinion on their behalf .
That also seems to be the case with those of us that so often get labelled as Anti Semites here.
Libra is my star sign for you into that stuff.
But scorpio keeps me sharp.
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49, SaintOne.
"As for him being beaten, I expect proof rather than comments from his brother."
There is a video tape circulating in Iraq showing the shoe-thrower being beaten in jail. I have this information from the most reliable source possible.
An interesting note: It was the Iraqi security men who stopped the shoe-thrower, not the secret service who just stood there. Curiously enough the Iraqis received their training under a USIS program.
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52, Dominick.
"What this incident, and the reaction from people throughout the Islamic world, tell me is that our "victory" in Iraq is elusive at best and that the level of hatred and contempt towards us is greater than ever."
Almost ex-President Bush, master of foreign relations, did a bang up job, didn't he?
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all (#88), you don't know that the Secret Service "just stood there." You can't see the entire room from the video that's been shown so far. The thrower was seated in the middle of the crowd, so there wasn't enough time to get to him before he threw the second shoe.
I'm sure the Secret Service will be reviewing their performance. I'll bet everyone in the crowd was checked for weapons before getting in, anyway.
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90, Gary.
The secret service did not move until after the man was subdued. They are already reviewing why the secret service did not act more quickly. The attendees were carefully checked before the press conference. This included the use of sniffer dogs. The reporters were allowed pencils, pens, notebooks and recording devices.
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I think it's interesting how throwing a shoe at the President in the Arab world is seen as the epitomy of contempt for him, but in America all I'm left with is amazement at the dodging skills of the President, the slow reaction of the secret service, and the CHILDISHNESS of that 28 year old reporter. Seriously, all he did was throw a shoe. I support Bush, and yet I just can't bring myself to get all worked up over some school yard quarrel. No wonder the East and the West has trouble understanding each other.
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all (#91), you're just repeating an assertion made off the top of your head without anything to support it. My questions for you are:
1. how do you know what motion (or lack thereof) is taking place out of the range of view of the camera?
2. do you have access to another camera clip other than the one that has been shown, which shows all of the Secret Service agents throughout the time of the incident? If so, can you provide a link to it?
Everybody's picking on the Secret Service about this relatively minor incident, which had no consequences, merely because lots of people like to find fault with others, whether deserving or not.
My view is that the Secret Service knew that there were no guns or knives in the room, correctly sized up the situation (they were size 10, in American units), and saw that other journalists had the assailant under control before they could get to him.
I read someone's comment on another blog that he should have been shot on the spot. Is that what you would recommend? If so, some of your marbles are missing in action.
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re. 43. dceilar:
Everyone should be thankful that Blackwater wasn't handling security for the press conference or there would be nor journalists left in Iraq.
But seriously, anyone attacking a visiting head of state shouldn't expect to be quietly escorted from the room. Iraq is a country where explosive vests are a fact of life (and death).
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94 but tim seriously even the president didn't look worried or that offended.
like someone said he was pretty nimble, and took it with some grace(publicly which i also suspect was real).
It was a shoe. I guarantee that those people had gone through everything but a cavity search to get in there.
the shoe didn't explode and the guy was probably known by most in and guarding the room to not be the type to be a bomber.
they should release him. it is no worse than an egging and only because of the inflated security and hype over terrorism (chicken were real after all) has this president avoided his just dessert.
I would offer a cream pie.(opps)
a chocolate muffin (opps)
a lemon meringue
that's better
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"92. At 10:39pm on 17 Dec 2008, BienvenueEnLouisiana wrote:
I think it's interesting how throwing a shoe at the President in the Arab world is seen as the epitomy of contempt for him, but in America all I'm left with is amazement at the dodging skills of the President, the slow reaction of the secret service, and the CHILDISHNESS of that 28 year old reporter. Seriously, all he did was throw a shoe. I support Bush, and yet I just can't bring myself to get all worked up over some school yard quarrel. No wonder the East and the West has trouble understanding each other."
CHILISHNESS of that 28 year old reporter ,who had lived in a country ravaged by war taken apart by the invasion of GW's(and you) friends killed relatives killed .
If that had happened to you i suspect you would have regressed to a fetus.
"school yard quarrel" .
seems GW was not involved in the quarrel. normally it takes two
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these people are actually pretty well trained (this is me I v. rarely say anything positive)
over reaction could cause bloodshed on the streets.
do the one who who think he should have been shot care about the number of american service members that would have been killed by angry people with access to a fair bit of booomb if that had happened,or are they tools for armchair chickenhawks.
Even GW said he bares no hard feelings.
(though i don't know why gary you are so abrasive with marbles here,they probably did just go hummmp no biggie even GW is smiling ,and they know him)
Gary Exactly.
"Everybody's picking on the Secret Service about this relatively minor incident, which had no consequences, merely because lots of people like to find fault with others, whether deserving or not."
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83
_Thank_You_!!!
My style of communication in forums/blogs/etc. often uses bogus html "code" to make absolutely clear passages that are meant to be humour or satire or whatever.
Is there a help page for posting here? I've been through 13 pages of FAQ titles but did not see one.
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happylaze
79
Ah...we Pagans have known about Christian Terrorism ever since they were numerous enough to start burning us at the stake with impunity. Now days they are just more subtle about attacking unbelievers.
In "The Republic of Nicaragua v. The United States of America" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua_v._United_States) Statement 9 the World Court stated that the U.S. encouraged human rights violations by the (U.S. recruited and trained) Contras, who by any definition of the word were terrorists. In fact during the Iran-Contra hearings the CIA field agent who dealt with them called the Contras the worst group of rapists and murderers he'd ever seen.
84
Also poor sentence structure it would appear. :-)
It was meant to be read as "West Bank Settlers (who do really bad things to other Israeli Citizens) are Jewish" and part of refuting his "logic" in a satirical manner. see post 81
I must admit I often focus more on how people frame their arguments than what their arguments are. Many, if not most, posters use logical fallacies every other clause. Like in that last sentence. :-)
I was trying to point out 75 not only used made-up stats, he used them in an invalid manner.
I'd just sic The Luggage on the troll and hope it doesn't burn it's feet in the volcano; that might be bad for the volcano. :-)
86
(inside joke)
May you never see the short, fast white sparks after talking with a hottie at a demo a little too long. :-)
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82
The flame war comment you confused happylaze and I with in 74. VERY happy it is a non-event.
My main objection was not to the accuracy of your observation (which I am more than willing to believe IS accurate), but to the lack of any qualifying statement identifying it as a personal opinion i.e. IMO, it appears to me that, I believe, etc..
Nothing personal, but while I am willing to believe you are often correct in your interpretation of your observations, I am unwilling to believe they are facts. FWIW, I won't argue against charges of nit-picking on this one. :-)
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98 keep at it pagan.
lol I got the post .
word of warning the character that you brought up has a problem with stats. He really does but the problem goes much deeper;)
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fwiw though what does that mean?
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Pagan,
Fwiw (for what it's worth, you illiterate metal-basher ;-)), my tutorial effort is just such an effort, and, coupked with the two links at its top, is all I'm aware of...And you're welcome.
Peace and Ubuntu (the spirit of helpful sharing)
ed
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fwiw, blue indicates a link
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101 thanks wads never did me no good.
it took me a few months to find out what lol meant.
then some bugger roflol and I was lost again.
does tfic mean tongue firmly in cheek.
cheers again now I know that
"OI pagan your nit picking;)"
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101 reggae thats the stuff "metal " is for smackin and heavy metal is for killing the planet.
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I see the "I" police have met their match. Perhaps they may learn something from this.
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99
If you do get the dreaded white sparks, tell them it was a special demo just for them. :-)
People who consistently use an "Appeal to Authority" fallacy, IMO, often have deep problems.
rotflmao at 103
just type:
net slang (slang in question)
into your search engine.
83, 101, 102
Is "I was still drinking my morning coffee" a worthwhile defense for being a little slow to notice a link titled "tutorial" would lead to a tutorial? Sorry. ::blush::
Mmmm...trying standard code for bold gave me the error:
Data at the root level is invalid on line 1
tried 'strong' rather than 'b' - no joy, same error. will try 'B' next. Nope.
Same thing for (ampersand)lt and (ampersand)gt, even tried a space after the characters. Oh well. :-(
Different permissions for Bloody Sodding Yank...err...US posters than UK posters?
(I don't think BBC TV has the same GB Eng as the lessons on BBC radio does :-) )
It would nice if there was a BBC help page listing how they handle special characters. (Hint, Hint Mr/Ms Moderator)
Ubuntu!?! I LOVE IT!!! Been my main OS for about a year and a half now. I love having any software I need in the repository for a quick, easy and free(!) install. I still dual-boot with XP for the few games Wine can't (yet) run in Ubuntu.
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Back in the 60's & 70's Richard Daly had a lock on being mayor of Chicago. No doubt that crimes were involved, people were killed and payoffs were being made at the request of the mayor.
The problem with Blago was that he rushed in too fast to get the payoffs that he believed were due to him. His biggest mistake was talking on the phone instead of having dinners at upscale restaurants ala Al Capone.
Live and learn, he won't get a second chance.
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Back in the 60's & 70's Richard Daly had a lock on being mayor of Chicago. No doubt that crimes were involved, people were killed and payoffs were being made at the request of the mayor.
The problem with Blago was that he rushed in too fast to get the payoffs that he believed were due to him. His biggest mistake was talking on the phone instead of having dinners at upscale restaurants ala Al Capone.
Live and learn, he won't get a second chance.
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105
Cops are cops everywhere. Most of them hassle the defenseless and bust the head of anyone who stands up to them. Those who don't lie to protect those who do.
But as for the link, it is an unfortunate truism that any military-type training that does not result in occasional injuries is not adequate to keep the trainees alive and safe in the field.
The article does not say how many injures were suffered by the "rioting West Bank settlers" and how many were suffered by the cops, but judging by the photo of another car tire flying through the the air at the defending cops I'd guess the "rioters" gave better then they got. Not sure what lesson that would teach.
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Don't think so. You/ve gotta be careful to close every tag though...lower case is better, and case of tag should match, of course, and exit/close in reverse order, i.e. symmetrically. this should be bold italicKeep trying
Peace and ubuntu
ed
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Oh, and for & (&) the semicolon is essentual, as also for < etc.
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proud pagan
just type:
net slang (slang in question)
into your search engine.
thanks I had found out that one but will remember this when it comes up in the future.
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I was a long time resident of Illinois. While I cannot comment on Rod Blagojevich performance as governor I recognize few names that for years occupied Illinois politics. Madigans (Michael and Lisa) and that old fox Quinn. I am not sure if we are dealing here with a corrupt individual or with a corrupt clique. Imagine Quinn stabbing his boss at such opportune time while opposing democratic vote on the selection of Obama' replacement.
I clearly remember another, past friction between democratically elected black mayor of Chicago and the white clique of eager to remain in total control of city politics aldermen. That confrontation and the current one in which Madigans and Quinn confront the governor in the fight for power are remarkably similar.
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Other interesting observation about the hoopla in Illinois - The governor aside from agitating Lisa and Mike Madigans, took on two other formidable opponents - Chicago Tribune and Bank of America. In the first case - He demanded that reporters who wrote inaccurate, inflamatory articles about his and his office activities were reprimanded. In the second case -acting on behalf of workers who occupied failing furniture company he warned Bank of America that if it withdraws/denies extension of credit to the company the state of Illinois will cease to deal with that Bank. Surprisingly the latter story was reported by BBC but hardly in American media. Many powerful enemies but a very weak impeachment case. Interesting is how it will all end.
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the nice Mr. Iglehart from 110 110
<humour>
lolcats spell better then 1337 g33kz.
<humour>
Ahh...adding a ";" worked!!
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the nice Mr. Iglehart from 110 110 (again)
again _Thank_You_!!1!
adding an escape character ;after; the command worked.
now I just have to remember the forward slash in the 'end this' half while copy-n-pasting bogus code.
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the nice Mr. Iglehart from 110 110 (yet again)
Weird, yesterday "<b> text </b>" was an error, today adding ";" gave me bold type but included the ";"'s.
I must admit that when I wrote my vanity...err...personal web page it was still the first generation of HTML.
(old coot grumble about how these new-fangled things are no dang good)
But the xml and java and etc. now-a-days make creating good code rather difficult. Black Hats are installing their malware into legitimate sites with way too much ease. If I wasn't 'hiding' behind Ubuntu, Firefox, NoScript and RefControl I'd be leery of going anywhere on the web.
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Pagan (and anyone needing a laugh),
Try pasting this page's URL into the HTML Validator, and then ask it to validate this bbc blogcode (this page)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/justinwebb/2008/12/tiring_of_the_blagojevich_saga.html
I get 829 errors....
;-)
ed
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#118
I got 1827!
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It's up to 837 errors now. "What was the number of the last post when you checked", nervously asked the author of the last three posts before 118 while dreams of "High Score!" danced in his head.
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Watch out! There's bound to be a topic cop lurking...1833
I reckon a ctrl-U might show some red in Firefox
;-)
ed
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#96 ref.
I beg your pardon, happylaze, but Iraq was not a happy place under Saddam; at least now they have a representative form of gov. that does not kill them in mass and dump them in shallow pits like their trash. Democracies do not spring to life at once either; it takes years to nurture such a civil society when none has ever existed. Heck, it took the US 2 tries to get a workable constitution, and a civil war to solve the question of whether "all men are created equal" actually included minorities.
The point is not that I have a problem with that reporter's beliefs about Bush, far from it; it?s about the, well, childishness of his actions. It just looked to me like a grown man having a temper tantrum similar to the ones my sister had as a baby.
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122 oi num where did I say it was a nice place. Go on find a quote, hell find anything there referring to anything before the american invasion.
You can stuff my pardon where the sun don't shine.
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122 like I say you suffer then talk. don't talk of others suffering.
I personally think there was nothing more childish than Invading a country because you want to.
There were no WMD and despite what all your fellow war morons say there was no evidence and Hans Blix was saying so.
Even the Brit dossier said there "may" but there is no conclusive proof.
Oh its ok just some Arabs go killed eh.
Hell america didn't give a damn until the body bags came home.
You think he was Childish. For throwing a shoe at the Guy who had ravaged his country.
Don't think I haven't followed whats been going on.
Hell as far as I was concerned Afganistan should not have been invaded.
Yea the trade towers were hit OHHHH so Soorrry. But I think the Childish over reaction was pathetic.
But carry on fooling yourself you have a grasp.
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happylaze (not really arguing with you just pointing out other things)
A major consumer of oil nation seizing oil fields as the world supply is drying up is not childishly invading a country just because you want to. It is insuring your family and friends and thirdly your nation stays rich and powerful.
Besides, it was personal. The first Gulf War was Bush Sr.s re-election campaign. Saddam failed to keep it going long enough so by the election people had time to get over the "He won a War!!" and Bush Sr. lost.
No, there were (past tense) WMDs in Iraq; Bush Sr. sold them to Saddam. The problem is that during eight years Clinton was Pres. they were used up and/or sold on to others. IMO, that is one of the (main?) reasons Repubicans hate the Clintons; if the WMDs Bush Sr. shipped to Iraq had still been there little Bush would have been The Hero Who Saved the World rather than the lying fool he is.
Sadly, no Major Power has ever really cared about the 'natives' in it's colonies/possessions/protectorates/etc. Just ask Boadicea about the Romans or the Saxons about the Normans or [deleted comment re: NI].
The body bags don't really come home, they are smuggled in. No one, especially the press, are allowed near the planes or hanger. The Republicans justify this with the same "Right to Privacy" argument they reject when it comes from any Pro-Choice group.
And many U.S. citizens did "give a damn" from the beginning. The anti-war protests were just ignored by the press and Government.
Afghanistan should never be invaded by anybody! No one has _ever_ conquered it. At best one can install a 'Central Government' that controls only what land it's soldiers are currently standing on.
When Bush demanded the Taliban turn Bin Laden over to the U.S. they said they couldn't, Bin Laden was hiding in caves where no one could find and capture him. The situation, IMO, quickly deteriorated into a "get him or loose face" scenario that the Right Wing Ideology (and the Nations ego) mandated be 'solved' by force. That the Taliban were right is one of Bushes biggest failures.
As for the Trade Towers, again a situation that the Right Wing Ideology mandated must be 'solved' by force. see also paragraph 1
I must point out that the first time the Towers were bombed the situation was handled very differently. The Democrat President followed the Rule of Law and had the police investigate the _crime_. The Terrorists responsible were arrested, given a fair and open trail and set to jail - end of story.
The Republican President ignored the crime and declared a War on Terrorism. The evidence was made a matter of National Security and locked away or destroyed. The "war" was then used to justify setting up domestic surveillance of the entire Nation, create secret courts and secret police, negate the Posse Comitatus Act and most of the Bill of Rights, etc.. The U.S. government can now disappear and torture a false confession out of _anybody_ just by having some bureaucrat claim "possible terrorist connections".
Iraq is a detestable smoke screen for _many_ things. The 9 billion dollars in untraceable _CASH_ Bush sent to Iraq that promptly disappeared, war profiteering by Chaney, no police investigation of 9/11, etc. etc.
If you just focus on Bush the person, you are doing what 'They' want you to do - forgetting everything else.
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125 proudpagen.
No worries on the me taking offence true comments in terms of reasons.
"Besides, it was personal."
is the bit that was Childish to me.Others dies cause he wanted to show daddy he could be a success.
WMD were there is the word as you say PAST tense.so not relevant.
PS do you like Bill Hicks?Does a good skit on how we have the receipts for the gasses.
As for just focusing on Bush . I would have to say you should check past posts by Jacksforge who thinks remarkably like me;)
There is no focus on GW for me I think it is the AMERICANS, Obama or not war or not me being one or not I really think america has created more than enough trouble . though thankful that they finally got GW out i could take the letter I wrote here recently on the republican obama fans topic and apply it to america as a whole.
None of that is relevant to me defending the actions of a journalist who had the opportunity to do what so many would like to and took it.
This President should have been egged every day but for the security .all his selfish (did not help us in the end did it. if they wanted oil they could have got it.) actions irrespective of who else what else has happened in history, are more childish than the journalist.
And that was what I was discussing.
If the Brits had reacted as the US they would have bombed Dublin to nothing in the last 50 years, but there is now a peace process.
GW didn't give that a go because he acted like a child, with everyones futures.
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Blgojevich in the buff
Don't drop the soap!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
126 happydaze
Not to show daddy he could be a success. To show small Nations around the world what happens if some one 'hurts' the Big Business/Republican interests. Remember what happened under Ray-gun/Bush when Nicaragua (one of the original banana Republics) failed to elect the U.S. 'backed' candidate?
Saying everything happened because little Bush acts childishly is to ignore the "power behind the throne" people who are still there. O's election just changes a few people at the top; not the Military Brass, not the bureaucrats in the dozens of security/intelligence agencies, not Big Business, not the lobbyists, etc. There will may be a new face giving O. his daily intell update, but the people who decide what is in it and how it is written it are the same. Ever watch "Yes, Minister"?
Ever notice that U.S. press always labels Anti-U.S. protests as attacks? i.e. "Palestinian Protest attacks U.S. Mid-East Policy" You can't 'defend' the shoe-thrower to a Right Winger. Like North Korea and China, the Cult of Personality is a bedrock of the U.S. conservatives. To even question the Ruler is the act of a traitorous subversive attempting to undermining the Nation. To them a shoe or egg is little different from a knife or a bullet.
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This page now has 2003 errors...
;-)
ed
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129 I could go on about all the aspects of america that are crap and their effects.
no point.
I was defending the guy throwing a shoe.
If cheney was there he would have chucked it at him I would still applaud
I was defending this particular protest. so sorry for your tangents.
Bush deserved a shoe in my opinion and the guy that threw it thought so as well.
I don't care if the GOPpers will understand.
But I will defend the thrower from such accusations of childishness.
bye
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Please, the U.S. Government/Big-Business not "We the People" are crap. Contrary to the U.S. Gov's propaganda, U.S. citizens have has much influence/control over it as people in other Nations have over theirs - little to none. Even though a "mere" 70% of us opposed Bushes policies he did not change them.
Besides, we did NOT elect Bush!
When there was a fair and honest count of all the ballots in 2000 it showed Bush lost both the popular and the Electoral College election. In 2004 Bush 'won' after the Republican controlled Judicial System ruled that just because the pre-programmed electronic voting machines (owned and controlled by a Republican who donated large sums to Bush) were caught red-handed recording more votes for Bush then there were voters was no reason to hold a re-count.
I agree that al-Zaidi made a political protest that should be protected by law (as long as all projectiles do not cause damage i.e pies, eggs, shoes but not rocks, tires, etc.). My 'tangents' were, IMO, by-and-large other/more reasons for the protest against Bush.
One disagreement though; I would have applauded _louder_ if it had been Cheney. :-)
The whole "childishness" BS is just a desperate right-wing attempt to minimize the gravity of the insult to their Leader (and in-their-opinion themselves).
(I think I found the right words to say what I have not been communicating well)
IMO the best way to deal with posters of the right-wing ideological sort is to treat them as trolls. Fun to play with and make jump through hoops, but never ever expect any amount of facts and logic to change their minds.
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132 just to be provocative.
in any decent democracy the results of both of those elections would have lead to rioting in the streets . opps I meant civil unrest in the streets.
but hardly a whimper .
then after 9/11 so many did want war ,revenge, etc.
don't try to fool me that those against the war were anything but a small minority.
I have sympathy for your point of view.
I was here in eugene , in Protest central ,just look at the facilities they built.
Google "eugene federal courthouse"
We used to have the Wayne Morse free speech plaza, but the cops don't like free speech there.
so now we have the Wayne Morse anti free speech centre.
at least it is a green building lol.
to lock up those that helped bring awareness to the issue in the first place(not all are arsonists).
But even here despite turning down the ballot to fund it a couple of times there it is finished.
Shiny just a waitin.to help revitalise one of the most stoned towns in america.
lol
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To happylaze,
I find you to be rude, absurd, and hypocritical . You said, and I quote, "I say you suffer then talk." How about living in a rental in a bad inner city neighborhood with no heat in the winter and catching Pneumonia 3 times as an infant only being too poor to pay for the shot? Or how about having Aortic Stynosis and having to have open heart surgery at the state owned free hospital or die? I bet it is You who know nothing about poverty and suffering; you insult and you ravage other people's identities for what? Will you now resort to calling me a racist Republican like all the others who disagree with you to shut me up? You have managed to take a post about someone other than yourself and turn it personal. What that reporter did was comicly childish and that is that. The authorities should send him home with a slap on the wrist and be done with him rather than go through the court theatrics "for attempting to kill a President" under Iraqi law because he was hardly attempting to kill the President.
-The End
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"Or how about having Aortic Stynosis and having to have open heart surgery at the state owned free hospital or die?"
That's called the National health in the UK.
Big deal
I've lived in poverty as well as luxury .Lucky me, but out of choice when it comes down to it.
I am sitting here with 4 blankets wrapped around me to keep warm.Now.(but thats because it is cheaper than heating this place(crappy american design houses lol)and I'm cheap.opps poorish.
And don't mention your suffering as a child when throughout ALL your posts you never seemed to jump on that health care reform.
Your concern for others so that they do not suffer the same is heart warming.
Comical not Childish.
"The authorities should send him home with a slap on the wrist and be done with him rather than go through the court theatrics "for attempting to kill a President" under Iraqi law because he was hardly attempting to kill the President."
This I would agree with.
Whateva
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The end
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Blagojevich's speech: His perception is altered, and reasoning is flawed. He seems to like to hear himself speak. I have identified numerous fallacies in his argument against corruption charges. I recognized special pleading, loaded questions, ad ignorantium, ad hominum, "Post hoc, ergo propter hoc", false dilemma, and false analogy. I think he is trying to exempt himself from these charges; special pleading. He asks, "How can you throw a governor out of office who...?" I think he uses "post hoc...", "after this, therefore because of this" when he describes his father's story. He demonstrated ad ignorantium by trying to appeal to the people. Blagojevich also attacked other government officials such as Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel; ad hominem. He sees only letting him stay on or impeachment letting him go; false dilemma. He compares irrevelant stories (his grandmother's story; yes it was kinda interesting, but random) to his own predicament; false analogy. He also uses repetition illustrating his desperation. I hope reviewers will take these fallacies into account when reviewing this case. Their decision will affect our future.
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Justin:
I hope soon that this saga will end....
~Dennis Junior~
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I am tired of hearing about this loser and all of his crying of " I did nothing wrong" he looks like a thief and anybody associated with him should be investigated also.
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Most Americans love Blagojevich. He's our hero! He represents what American politics is all about -- graft! American democracy is based on buying politicians. And American politics is based on a Constitution that says that every American is free to express himself/herself by buying a politician. So, Blago, We Love You. Your the the ideal American politician. Yay for American Democracy. The best that money can buy!
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There's something wrong with the BBC system -- it keeps poping up a Post a comment box even though the [Post a comment] button was not clicked. Better get your webmaster working on this bug.
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I love this -- post a comment - what does this mean? Your system is messed up man! Your designed a bad page and the code isn't working. Get this fixed and fast.
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