The wiser view
Nerves!
This headline - and weirdly over-written first line of the subsequent story (in a very reputable Obama supporting British paper) - seems to me to sum up the extreme jitters in the hearts of the world Obama nation.
This is the wiser view of the Auntie story - it would have helped the Republicans earlier in the campaign (how many other mystery relatives does the mystery candidate have?) but they have wisely concluded that going for it now would look beyond desperate.
This was a hoot - and (hooray!) she came out of it rather well, no?
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I just wanted to be the first comment!
(But I probably won't.)
Er - that's it.
John
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"This was a hoot - and (hooray!) she came out of it rather well, no?"
Of course, there would never be any attempt to prank Obama, Biden or any other left wing politician.
Just right wing ones.
More blatant bias from the media.
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No don't think she came out of it well at all - she came out of it exactly like the twit she is!
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Justin wrote:
"and weirdly over-written first line of the subsequent story (in a very reputable Obama supporting British paper) - seems to me to sum up the extreme jitters in the hearts of the world Obama nation."
Sorry but this is the kind of sweeping generalization MAII or Magic would be proud of, seriously how many Obama supporters are really worried about this?
The kind of people who would take this as a reason not to vote for him were never going to break his way in the first place.
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". . .and (hooray!) she came out of it rather well, no? "
No.
You should really read the transcript (and listen to the short clip on your own organisation's news pages.) You'll find a link to the transcript in the posts to your last thread.
Here, Justin, I'm sorry to say that you have just made rather a fool of yourself. You should know better than to rely on only one source. Especially one that gives much less of a flavour of it than the BBC report does . . .
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Justin
I have long been convinced you have "gone native" since you moved to the US, and your casual slip at the end of your post confirms this yet again:
This was a hoot - and (hooray!) she came out of it rather well, no?
Why the "hooray"? Why be so partisan? I just dont see the reason for adding that comment other than the fact you are supporting McCain and his idiotic running mate.
As I mentioned at the top of this comment, you have done the classic Brit thing and "gone native" since moving to the US. I speak as someone who lived there for a while and I saw it in many other Ex-Pat Brits. They move to the country and get seduced by the big houses, big cars and the low cost of living; this leads them to move to the right and start supporting the "red in tooth and claw" capitalism of the Republicans.
I expected better of you, but I guess even highly paid BBC reporters are not immune to the shallow attractions of living in the good old U-S-of-A.
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Rather well?????????????????????
WTF.
She came out of it like a school girl lostb.
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All the Brit papers are over-wrought today.
They hired great writers to anticipate the result of this pivotal election only to find that at this stage no one wants to put a step out of line for fear of getting it horribly wrong - or prejudicing the outcome by writing something silly which could wing its way in a flash to become a Drudge Report headline.
The Brit papers will be at their most interesting on Thursday.
By next Sunday they will be back to post mortems and their usual doomsday speculation as to what can go wrong for the winner - as well as acres of newsprint giving him the benefit of their advice from this side of the pond.
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I don't think she "came out of it rather well"
She come out like a "jolly duck"*
Sooo presidential (in 8 years maybe)
The most worrying part was the very last:
"what's your station call number?"
sounded like
"I'll get you for it!"
Anyway if you are governor of Alaska you can be excused not to know the name of the prime minister of Luxembourg, but you should know the name of the PM of Canada and Quebec.
Maybe can't see Canada from Alaska
* Italian expression: "Ochetta giuliva"
Can't find anything that can better describe her
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# 1 ~ Dublin John
Your post makes a lot more sense than lots of things we read on these pages.
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"Er - that's it.
John"
Er - nicely done?
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Auntie came to his inauguration in 2004 and Obama did not know the status of her immigration case or that she was still here?
Just like the hate sermons that Jeremiah Wright was giving for 20 years that Obama never heard, and never heard about, from his parishioners.
Obviously his autobiography is more fiction than fact.
I didn't realize that in this "mean country" (Michelle Obama's words) non-working illegals had enough money to be making campaign contributions.
Auntie won't be removed now under any circumstances, because if any Republican administration does it it will look political or like retaliation, and under Obama, no one would dare.
My guess is that a year or so from now when everything quietens down, Obama will direct his Attorney General to issue an order in her case (the AG has final say and immigration orders in individual cases are confidential). She will, then in the true spirit of the nepotism of her home continent, become a (grateful) permanent resident of the US, the criticism of which, as having failed in so many ways, Obama has built a career on.
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Poor elderly auntie - I hope her appeal is in order and she doesn't get shucked out of her home at her age - although ICE has been separating mothers and their children this year so it wouldn't be surprising. As to media coverage probably would have had to carve an "M" in her cheek to get a reaction at this stage since everyone is pretty numb to the hate/rage tactics.
As to Palin's performance - dimwitted as is the norm, and...8 years? Try 2000 and never. Back to fruitcakes with nuts.
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British-ish
You forgot to add "again" to the end below.
Understandable error.
I ain't mad at ya.
"Here, Justin, I'm sorry to say that you have just made rather a fool of yourself."
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"She came out of it rather well"?!?!????!??
The key here is in the last couple of seconds of the calls, as she's handing the phone back to her aid, you can hear her saying "it's a radio station from France..." But they've just told her several times they're calling from Montreal!
Sarah Palin thinks Montreal is in France! That's coming out of it rather well?!?
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ref #4
Asa Scott, please do me the courtesy of expressing my own oppinions.
I don't really care about his aunt, his half brother in Kenya is a better story; if someone wanted to go there.
One point I am suprised with the link to the LA Times, who is holding on to a video showing Obama at a good bye party for a terroist spoaksman who now works at the politicaly correct Columbia University. The college that welcomes the President of Iran but won't let a conservative group speak freely.
My objections to Obama have always been his resume and his positions
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Justin:
No one cares about the auntie story. Everyone's got relatives who can't stand up to close scrutiny.
#2 dhimmi:
Yes, those evil radio guys in Montreal threaten the very foundations of civilization.
Me? I'd rather have seen Palin get a call from Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand.
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I'm proud to be a Montrealer today.
The link cuts out some of the best parts. You can listen to the whole prank call here.
If you're wondering about the French in the call, the French 'saying' about hunting translates to "Maybe we can kill some baby seals, too", and the French title of the song written for Sarah Palin is, of course, "Lipstick on a Pig".
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Er Justin I am going to give you the benefit of doubt and presume you said 'hooray' because the poor dear (moose) did'n't completely embarass herself. That said, she was 'owned' as the Americans say. Her gullibility is a bit scary dontcha think? Plu the fact that she did'n't notice/correct a number of factual errors, and did'n't even stop to consider why Sarkozy might want to ring her in the middle of an election campaign. I don't think it will make any difference, it is just another little nail in the McCain/Palin coffin.
Wish I could have been in the room after the phone was hung up! And when they notified command central. Ya gotta laugh!
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# 2 dhimmi wrote:
""This was a hoot - and (hooray!) she came out of it rather well, no?"
Of course, there would never be any attempt to prank Obama, Biden or any other left wing politician.
Just right wing ones.
More blatant bias from the media."
I hoped this person was being gently ironic. However if you click on a person's name, it shows you their recent postings. This was of a piece with dhimmi's recent efforts - monomaniacal and humourless - and obsessed with 'leftie bias'. At least he's consistent though.
A few fairly obvious points
[a] How do you know there was never an attempt to prank any left wing politician? Answer - you don't. There could have been dozens. It's just that you rarely hear of failed attempts - they're not exactly newsworthy.
[b] AFAIK these pranksters were Canadian. Are they 'biased' against Palin. It seems likely - any poll I've seen shows the Dem ticket is vastly more popular than the Rep almost everywhere outside the USA. [It is of course significantly more popular INSIDE the US too...]
[c] In the UK at least I can think of 3 famous 'prank' calls from the leftie, pinko, commie media. One was to Tony Blair - the LABOUR PM. Another to Margaret Beckett - a LABOUR Minister. The third was to the Queen. [People may well query how left wing Labour was under Blair, but that's another story. As it happens, I've read that they have made progress in reducing poverty and inequality - they just don't like to talk about it much, for fear of frightening the Daily Mail...]
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Justin, some interesting points in your blog but I hope you don't mind if I concentrate on a more important issue as I see it.
Socialism is not a threat to America as some of the scaremongers on these blogs allege, the main threat is fundamentalism.
Socialists believe that all citizens should have a fair share, note, not an equal share, of a country's fortunes whether it's wealth or otherwise. Socialism requires a broad and enlightened view of the purpose of society so that the greed of those who have absolutely no regard for their fellow human beings can be recognised and dealt with before it becomes institutionalised and endemic. It has absolutely nothing to do with governments controlling peoples' daily lives. As Lincoln said, a government should be "of the people for the people by the people".
The elephant in the room is fundamentalism, which because it has permeated American society to such a large degree, hardly any politicians are willing to discuss it.
Fundamentalism is evident in Zionism and creationism. They are dangerous for at least two reasons; in the case of Zionism, whether it be Christian or Jewish, most followers believe that they have a god given right to occupy a certain piece of territory, which to any sensible person is obvious nonsense. To achieve their goal they de-humanise anyone who stands in their way and if people are harmed it is just considered to be 'collateral damage'. Many Zionists even condemn other members of their own faith such as Noam Chomsky for not supporting their cause, they use that awful term 'self hating Jew'.
Secondly because fundamentalists have a limited ability to analyse situations logically, as evidenced by their fallacious beliefs, they are open to indoctrination by others such as the Rush Limbaughs and the neocons, into believing that to be anything other than a flag waving, tough talking, gun toting, capitalist is un-patriotic and anti-American. Many, if not all, of the right-wing contributors to these pages who spout the hate and vitriol that we have seen will be fundamentalists, you know who you are!
It?s time for the sensible people in America to firmly oppose the fundamentalists and seize the initiative that sen. Obama is offering at considerable personal risk. Don't try to pacify them by allowing them to teach and preach their nonsense in schools, passing it off as genuine alternative opinion, they will just try to push their crazy dogma even further. Face the fundamentalists by using reasoned, logical argument, which should begin in the very classrooms that the fundamentalists have taken over, show them that their beliefs are flawed and absurd.
In the past I have argued that it is useless to try and reason with these narrow minded people because they tend to see issues in black and white but what I am advocating here is that the education system should try and deal with this problem long before young minds become so closed that they fester with such views that violence and hate become their only succour.
Cupcake's got it exactly HERE
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No 6 I think you're right. Poor Justin does seem
to have gone native in the USA. Hope he and his ilk don't get the Government they deserve. - hockey mums and 6 pack Joes ruling the world .
Ugh - not v.nice.
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I agree with Justin that Sarah Palin came out of the call with Sarkozy very well. She was charming and natural desite being called out of the blue by a world leader. I do wonder though at the apparent ease with which these calls can be made and the obvious security risks. Can you get Frank Gardner to look at this?
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It's not that the media targeted a right winger in the Palin prank. They targeted a dunce.
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"Many Zionists even condemn other members of their own faith such as Noam Chomsky for not supporting their cause, they use that awful term 'self hating Jew'."
Jackturk, I agree with the sense of your comment, but Chomsky, although ethnically Jewish, is an atheist, not a member of any "faith".
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we all know you're supporting McCain, Justin, it's obvious from your posts. You should either call this the pro-McCain blog or be professional and cut out the bias. On the other hand, in Britain all the media is so remorselessly pro Obama that a few rogue McCain supporters can't do any harm. My only concern is that some Americans may read this blog. Well, I'm sure you can tell from my post who I'm supporting, but I'm not being paid by the BBC to be a professional about it.
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15. At 2:24pm on 02 Nov 2008, Emigdio wrote:
Sarah Palin thinks Montreal is in France! That's coming out of it rather well?!?
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There is a Montreal in France.
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8.
80%
well put.
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Justin you're a Donkey.
Just like mostly erronious
you claim to be the wise it seems.
But then you write
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#6 last paragraph , so true.
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2. dhimmi wrote:
"Of course, there would never be any attempt to prank Obama, Biden or any other left wing politician.
Just right wing ones."
Maybe the comics have tried them and they were too clever to fall for it?
"More blatant bias from the media."
Ah. At last. I've been waiting hours. Please see post 624 in the previous thread.
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This Aunt thing is a non story. Mccain's campaign is not interested and wish it would go away.
John Mccain's nonimation campaign was virtually destroyed when he backed an immigration reform bill. The main point of the bill was that immigrants allready in the US who had broken no US law would get citizenship and the right to work, and their kids into school without fear.
Thoughout the nomination campaign John stuck up for people who were not technically citizens but who wanted to work hard and get a piece of the American dream for themselves and their children. "These are Gods children too"
Obama's creepy spin people use their extensive union connections in the South West to paint Mccain as a right wing nut-job about to round up and deport 10,000,000 people. [words fail me, so I won't comment on the tactic]
I admit there are fringe people on the right-edge of the republican party who think like that. Sad, but the whole point is Mccain risked his political career to get that kind of cruel policy stopped.
As for the prank call thing, it seems to be mainly the caller talking, [yak yak yak], and therefore a bit tedious.
And as for the Guardian. Its the NY times on the political spectrum, although I think the journalists on the paper would not drop to such low tactics.
Some of the Academic ideas in the Guardian have done more to destroy educational standards and opportunity than anything else.
Namby Pamby dicipline and letting kids do and say anything in class being the first. The second is a steady diet of indoctrination about political correctness. Each year the decay gets a little worse.
For the UK, if you want balenced info, read the FT. [but only after carefully cutting out the pierson group controlled editorials and using them as bathroom paper.]
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23. At 2:56pm on 02 Nov 2008, arturoquinquireme wrote:
I agree with Justin that Sarah Palin came out of the call with Sarkozy very well. She was charming and natural desite being called out of the blue by a world leader.
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Some people are so positive minded. They never see anything negative in their candidate. Wish they could do the same to the opponents.
BTW let me add another bushism
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." ?Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
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No.25
Nick, thanks for the clarification, although I have heard Noam Chomsky referred to in those disparaging terms, obviously incorrectly.
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ref#21
I don't know what planet you are on it.
Fundamentalism has been used as a code word by the left(not Democrats per say and to his credit not Obama) you are using as they are as a way to attack.
Any who is a fundamentalist is incapable of having a reasoned disucssion according to your criteria.
I am saying this as someone who is not a fundamentalist.
As far as your drivel about Zionism, unless you are bigoted against Jews or support terrorism; you can't deny Israel's right to exist.
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Dublin John,
It's the Mail on Sunday you've gotta watch out for...Peace and Liffey Water
ed
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"I don't really care about his aunt, his half brother in Kenya is a better story; if someone wanted to go there."
Why?
His father abandoned him when he was two.
Where is the relevance? Again?
Seriously, say you are an independant again, i need the laugh.
"non-working illegals had enough money to be making campaign contributions"
as covered above she earns a pittance by being a health advocate. she is still happy to donate some of this pitance. Have you donated? She is not on welfare.
Change the record, this one is must be scrathed, it keeps repeating it's self.
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Palin is not fit for to be a primary school teacher let alone in charge of the worlds largest military and intelligence machine. However looking at http://vietnamveteransagainstmccain.com/ I have grave concerns about Mcain now.
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23. arturoquinquireme wrote:
I agree with Justin that Sarah Palin came out of the call with Sarkozy very well. She was charming and natural desite being called out of the blue by a world leader.
Have you heard it? Nobody with any pretensions to know something of the rest of the world would credit that accent as belonging to Sarkozy for a moment, nor for one second believe a President would say things like that.
I do wonder though at the apparent ease with which these calls can be made and the obvious security risks. Can you get Frank Gardner to look at this?
Ridiculous. These guys are from a radio station. The media know the numbers to call. They aren't secrets!
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12/ Bayleyco, Jeremiah Wright is not a hate preacher. He doesn't mince his words when he talks about slavery and civil rights oppression, but he preaches that those things were wrong.
He is the minister of one of the most popular churches in Chicago. He is a Christian. He is no more a hate preacher than Falwell and his ilk.
You have seen a short clip of one soundbite from one sermon amongst the thousands he has given over the years, why do you assume he has been saying the same thing for 20 years? Has John McCain been singing Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran for 20 years? I've seen Wright interviewed, he is a measured, intelligent man, and as rational as a deist can be. Perhaps that is the real reason he scares you?
Anyway, does being black and rightfully angry automatically make one hateful? Is it fair to oppress a whole race of human beings for 200 years and not expect them to be a little upset about it?
I suspect Pastor Wright's tone is not unheard of in black churches up and down the land. Fire and brimstone has been a staple of evangelical religion of whatever colour for centuries, sermons delivered with passion and belief, addressing serious political issues and shocking congregations into looking at themselves and the world in a different way, these are part of the appeal of churchgoing, and presumably why Wright's church (and Falwell's, etc etc) are so popular.
Smearing Wright in order to smear Obama with allegations of hatred and implications of racial prejudice is a shameful act. I can see that moderate voters may not react well to militancy, and in an election where image is often perceived as important as substance, the image of Wright is one the Obama campaign are keen to play down, and the Republicans play up, but you need to get your facts straight about who he is and what he represents. He is a man of God and a minister of the Church, and to accuse him of being hate-filled is to demean God.
(If that is what you are trying to do, I can think of much more effective ways of demeaning God, such as demonstrating logically that the probability of his existence is infinitesimally small).
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25. At 3:04pm on 02 Nov 2008, Nick-Gotts wrote:
Jackturk, I agree with the sense of your comment, but Chomsky, although ethnically Jewish, is an atheist, not a member of any "faith".
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Then you should look at Einstein's words and see in what sense he says he is a Jew. Read his Ideas and Opinions. I do not think many Jews actually are Jews religiously. Many people claim its just identity with the group.
See Steven Weinberg, Eric Kandel etc..
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Oops forgot to include a bushism
"This thaw -- took a while to thaw, it's going to take a while to unthaw." --George W. Bush, on liquidity in the markets, Alexandria, La., Oct. 20, 2008
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"One point I am suprised with the link to the LA Times, who is holding on to a video showing Obama at a good bye party for a terroist spoaksman"
Has anyone ever seen thes videos owned by the la times, another one being his "true" feelings on israel
Call me a dirty capitalist but if i owned a newspaper with this kind of dynomite revelsations about Obama i'd be orddring my ferrari and cashing in on the exclusive of the decade.
I certainly wouldn't be sitting in it.
And i like Obama.
Is it possible, they don't exist.
Except in your head?
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
# 16 MagicKirin wrote:
"One point I am suprised [sic] with the link to the LA Times, who is holding on to a video showing Obama at a good bye [sic] party for a terroist [sic] spoaksman [sic] who now works at the politicaly [sic] correct Columbia University. The college that welcomes the President of Iran but won't let a conservative group speak freely."
Some things change. Some that never do are [a] Magic's tenuous relationship with the English language [b] his immediate regurgitation of all the latest Republican talking points and [c] his penchant for throwing around words like 'hate' and 'terrorist'.
Here is a link to the LA Times and their side of the story - amazingly enough, rather more nuanced than Magic's. [Well, it could hardly be any LESS nuanced...]
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-newvideo30-2008oct30,0,5073968.story
One point of particular interest - "Democrats countered McCain's complaints by noting that the Republican has his own ties to Khalidi. The Arizona senator once headed a nonprofit group that gave grants to an institute Khalidi headed, money that was used to conduct polling in the West Bank."
[That reminds me - didn't Obama point out in one of the debates that the legendary Ayers also sat on a Board with Walter Annenberg, a friend of Reagan's? Funny how you never hear that from the Reps.]
Again, a rather more nuanced picture of Khalidi is provided by Wikipedia here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Khalidi#PLO_connection.
As for his PLO connection, it says this
"While teaching in Beirut in the 1970's and 80's, Khalidi also worked as a spokesman for the Palestine Liberation Organization. The Los Angeles Times interviewed Khalidi in Beirut in 1976, citing him as a ?a PLO spokesman." The New York Times interviewed Khalidi in 1978, citing him as ?an American-educated Palestinian who teaches political science at the American University of Beirut and also works for the PLO." In a second New York Times interview, this one by Thomas Friedman in 1982, Khalidi is described as ?a director of the Palestinian press agency, Wafa." Khalidi has denied that he ever worked for the PLO. He told the Washington Times, "I often spoke to journalists in Beirut, who usually cited me without attribution as a well-informed Palestinian source. If some misidentified me at the time, I am not aware of it."
Even if he did work for the PLO, people will draw their own conclusion as to whether they are 'terrorists' or not. I seem to recall Yasser Arafat on the White House lawn....
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Given all the nonsense that we gleefully indulge in on this site, I would have thought that Justin Webb's main pleasure - if he ever reads his own blog - is to wind us up.
For that reason I wouldn't take his Palin phone call comments too seriously.
I thought it was very funny - she's so full of herself that she fell for it hook, line and sinker. Splosh ............
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She really thought it was Sarkozy? You'd have to be a dunce to think it was really the guy. Plainly, the subject matter alone gave that away.
What if somebody called up and pretended to be Bin Laden sitting in the oval office? I can just see her nuking our own capital as a result of that prank.....
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Jackturk,
Well said. My chief reservation about Obama is his lack of clear statements regarding the unjustifiable situation of the Palestinians and his constant reiteration of the "Israel is our most important ally" mantra. I accept it is necessary to secure the Jewish vote, but I still gag every time I see it. Pinochet's Chile and other vicious regimes were easier to stomach.
Chomsky is no less Jewish for being atheist (or secular). And he is a prime illustration that far from all Jews are rabid Zionists.
Peace and Justice
ed
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If all goes according to expectations, in two days the most powerful nation in the world will elect the least qualified leader in the world. Let's be reminded of his credentials. He was a troubled kid who grew up on the streets of Chicago. He managed to get into Harvard Law School and graduated. He become editor of the Harvard Law Review Magazine. He became a "community organizer" which means he got people to register to vote. He was elected to the Illinois state legislature for awhile and became a United States Senator. He's been a US Senator for four years two of which he's been running for President. During his prior two years he accomplished nothing of distinction. He had the most liberal voting record in Congress. He has the gift of gab, is charismatic, obviously intelligent, and is a good speaker. In less than three months he will be sitting in the cockpit behind the controls of the most powerful thing ever conceived of by the mind of man, the United States of America with all of the levers of power at his command including the most powerful military in history at a time when the nation faces enormous crises both at home and abroad. He'll have a rubber stamp Congress who will do his bidding. Heaven help us all. Good luck Mr. Obama, from where I sit, that's the only thing you and the rest of us can count on.
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"I didn't realize that in this "mean country" (Michelle Obama's words) non-working illegals had enough money to be making campaign contributions."
With this one sentence you demonstrate what Michelle Obama finds mean about your country.
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33. At 3:27pm on 02 Nov 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
Fundamentalism has been used as a code word by the left(not Democrats per say and to his credit not Obama) you are using as they are as a way to attack.
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I agree that fundamentalism has been on both sides. Historically these has been only right wing fundamentalism(dark ages, inquisition, fascism, Nazi nationalism, Nazi racism). In the past century there has been left fundamentalism(Marxism, Maoism, red terror). And after the cold war the right fundamentalism is back again in its most violent form. Look at Al_Queda, that's as religious right wing as it gets.
It helps if people can stay rational and stay center.
To lighten another bushism
"I think it was in the Rose Garden where I issued this brilliant statement: If I had a magic wand -- but the president doesn't have a magic wand. You just can't say, 'low gas.'" --George W. Bush, Washington D.C., July 15, 2008
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008
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"Then you should look at Einstein's words and see in what sense he says he is a Jew. " - pkkmres
Why? What relevance would that have? Chomsky, although ethnically a Jew, is an atheist. He could be ethnically Jewish and Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Scientologist, or a religious Jew, in any of which cases he would be a member of a faith, but as it happens, he's not, he's an atheist. Therefore he is not a member of a faith. That's a simple matter of fact. What's your problem?
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No.33 Magic
I'm tempted to say I'm certainly not on the same planet as you.
I've never criticised Jews nor any religion, only religious fundamentalists.
You have also confirmed my point about lack of discussion.
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I thought this story was all about a distant aunt of Obama?
Obama did the right thing by saying that the laws need to be enforced, but the only real question is how she managed to stay years here illegally in public assisted housing? This only reflects on the Democratic base of welfare and not directly on Mr Obama himself; isn't it their platform to hire busses to pick up welfare voters to make sure they vote and reelect Democrats to keep their checks coming? How is that helping America or even themselves? On Mr. Obama himself, he spent years as a 'Community Organizer' in Chicago, yet did any of those of his community ever really become self sufficient from his activities (like finding a job and become more independant?), or is it just a place where he got political support and moved on?
Who was responsible for the housing unit that the aunt lived in illegally (on tax money) for all those years? Why aren't they before a review board for failing to see how their housing is being operated?
Oh, sorry, we can't review things like that, we might find out a lot of people are there illegally (or even might be criminals as well that are hiding out from the law) and we would be depriving them of their 'rights'!
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Justin,
I was not quite sure if you were a serious reporter / commentator after I saw some of your links to Dennis Sewell and his wack jock view of the world. After that you seemed objective enough, but now I'm convinced - your just another wack job. Maybe a little less wacky, but to have Sarah Palin affirming the love of killing and saying how well she did is just plain stupid.
I thought you Brits had more common sense than half of America.
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#21
I totally agree, and I'm an Obama fan , but this is the only thing I can't get my head around with him. He has faith-based initiatives also. Total separation of church and state is what has to be!!!
http://pewforum.org/religion08/compare.php?Issue=Faith__Based_Initiativess
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Let's just say that prank calls aren't really all that amusing, no matter who they're tageted at. Cheap laughs at the expence of someone else. A bit a school bully thing. I don't think it should be encouraged. Even if a complete nitwit like SP is the target.
(With us SP is also short for Socialist Party, btw. Now that's funny.)
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Low down sleaze bag
So who's surprised?Peace and exposure
ed
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27 pkkmres wrote: "15. At 2:24pm on 02 Nov 2008, Emigdio wrote: Sarah Palin thinks Montreal is in France! That's coming out of it rather well?!?
-------
There is a Montreal in France."
Well, yes (there's one with a population of 200) but the important aspect of it is that the President of the French Republic resides in Paris, at the Elysee Palace, currently holds the EU Presidency and will be at the G20 meeting n Washington ten days after the election.
One would have hope someone standing as Vice-President of the USA might just have a grasp of some of that.
Anyway, so what, closer to home, on a clear day, hunting seals from a helicopter over Alaska, you can see Canada just as well, if not better, than Russia, as she demonstrates:
FNS: You know we have a lot in common also except that from my house I can see Belgium. That?s kind of less interesting than you.
SP: "Well, see, we?re right next door to other countries that we all need to be working with, yes."
FNS: "Some people said in the last days, and I thought that was mean, that you weren?t experienced enough in foreign relations, and you know, that?s completely false, that?s the thing I said to my great friend, the Prime Minister of Canada, Stef Carse." [Stephen Harper is the PM]. ?
SP: "Well, he?s doing fine, too, and yeah when you come into a position underestimated, it gives you the opportunity to prove the pundits and the critics wrong. . ."
FNS: "I, I was wondering because you are also next to him, one of my good friends, also, the prime minister of Quebec, Mr. Richard Z. Sirois [a famous Quebec radio host], have you met him recently? Did he come to one of your rallies?"
?SP: "Uh, haven?t seen him at one of the rallies, but it?s been great working with the Canadian officials in my role as governor; we have a great cooperative effort there as we work on all of our resource development projects. You know I look forward to working with you and getting to meet you personally and your beautiful wife, oh my goodness, you?ve added a lot of energy to your country, even, with that beautiful family of yours."
You really, really couldn't make it up. Especially when you hear it. (I mean, just listen to 'Sarkozy's' accent!)
Right from the moose's mouth. Sorry, but there are no excuses. "C'est la vie" as one of her aides put it afterwards. End of her national political life, I should think.
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49. pkkmres wrote:
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008
How true. Only are you sure that was an 'ism'? With Cheney, Rumsfeld Wolfowitz and the Neocons always in there?
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47. At 4:16pm on 02 Nov 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
If all goes according to expectations, in two days the most powerful nation in the world will elect the least qualified leader in the world. Let's be reminded of his credentials. He was a troubled kid who grew up on the streets of Chicago. He managed to get into Harvard Law School and graduated. He become editor of the Harvard Law Review Magazine. He became a "community organizer" which means he got people to register to vote. He was elected to the Illinois state legislature for awhile and became a United States Senator. He's been a US Senator for four years two of which he's been running for President. During his prior two years he accomplished nothing of distinction. He had the most liberal voting record in Congress. He has the gift of gab, is charismatic, obviously intelligent, and is a good speaker.
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The only concern I share with you is that "He has the gift of gab, is charismatic, obviously intelligent, and is a good speaker. "
How horrible quality to have in a president. Aptly let me add another bushism.
"I will have a foreign-handed foreign policy." --George W. Bush, Redwood, Calif., Sept. 27, 2000
"The great thing about America is everybody should vote." --George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Dec. 8, 2000
"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream." --George W. Bush, LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000
"If I become president, we're going to have emergency-room care, we're going to have gag orders." --George W. Bush, third presidential debate, St. Louis, Missouri, Oct. 18, 2000
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Stephen (38),
Peace and Holy PassionWell said! and seconded! I would be proud to sit in Jeremiah Wright's congregation any day. (and twice on Sundays!)
ed
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53. jlubeck wrote:
"I thought you Brits had more common sense than half of America."
That's always a problem with statistics. Possibly. But which half were you thinking of?
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# 33 MagicKirin wrote:
"ref#21
I don't know what planet you are on it [sic]."
He's on Earth, Magic. It's not a bad little place. You should try visiting from MagicWorld one of these days. Just don't outstay your welcome...
"Fundamentalism has been used as a code word by the left(not Democrats per say [sic] and to his credit not Obama) you are using as they are as a way to attack./Any [sic] who is a fundamentalist is incapable of having a reasoned disucssion [sic] according to your criteria./I am saying this as someone who is not a fundamentalist./As far as your drivel about Zionism, unless you are bigoted against Jews or support terrorism; [sic] you can't deny Israel's right to exist."
Jackturk at 21 said "Fundamentalism is evident in Zionism and creationism. They are dangerous for at least two reasons; in the case of Zionism, whether it be Christian or Jewish, most followers believe that they have a god given right to occupy a certain piece of territory, which to any sensible person is obvious nonsense. To achieve their goal they de-humanise anyone who stands in their way and if people are harmed it is just considered to be 'collateral damage'. Many Zionists even condemn other members of their own faith such as Noam Chomsky for not supporting their cause, they use that awful term 'self hating Jew'."
If you have a specific objection to any of that - let's hear it. Backed by evidence of course. [There's a first time for everything.....]
I would have a doubt, in that I genuinely don't know if most Zionists are religious fundamentalists - Wikipedia points out that it was originally more a nationalist and secular movement than a religious one. However I think Jack makes a perfectly valid point, in that, you can argue and debate with someone about the State of Israel, its borders, its establishment, where its borders should be etc. You cannot argue with them if they hold a fanatical and unshakeable belief that its borders were established thousands of years ago by the creator of the universe - any more than you can argue with a Muslim fundamentalist, who believes his murderous ways will be rewarded by Allah.
I see no evidence of Jack denying Israel's right to exist. This is the technique of the 'straw man'. You invent something your opponent never said - then disprove it.
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Let the Bells Ring Out - The Totally Negative Party is having its daily outing at # 47.
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47/ MarcusAurelius
"Let's be reminded of his credentials. He was a troubled kid who grew up on the streets of Chicago."
I didn't bother reading the rest of your post after this, on the basis that if you can't get a single uncontroversial factual background history right, nothing else you say is likely to be credible.
(Obama grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia, he didn't go to Chicago until he was in his 20's).
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We may all have to take cover when Magic finds out that the distinguished middle east scholar Dr. Rashid Khalidi studied for his doctorate at Oxford.
Mind you a few other folks who studied at Oxford now come to mind - maybe that's where it all began to go wrong in Magic's terms.
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Anyone see the video of Cheney endorsing McCain ? He then goes into a great heave and looks for all the world as though he's stopping himself from throwing up.
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No21.middlecroony, No.46 Ed
There appear to be contradictions in most politicians policies as there are in all of us. However if we consider our nominee to be intelligent and thoughtful we can hope that common sense will prevail.
It is my opinion that religion should have no place in government or education, for those who take comfort from it let it be a private matter.
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50. At 4:21pm on 02 Nov 2008, Nick-Gotts wrote:
Why? What relevance would that have? Chomsky, although ethnically a Jew, is an atheist. He could be ethnically Jewish and Christian, Muslim, Buddhist or Scientologist, or a religious Jew, in any of which cases he would be a member of a faith, but as it happens, he's not, he's an atheist. Therefore he is not a member of a faith. That's a simple matter of fact. What's your problem?
-------------
First, I do not have a problem. You left out Hinduism. Buddism does not strictly involve god, so it hardly qualifies as "faith".
The point I was making was that there are lots of Jews who claim they are Jews but are Atheists. If you have a problem with that ask them why they do so. I just listed few people I knew who are Atheists/Agnostics but still consider themselves Jews.
Ethnicity is defined by common traits according to wiki. If you are a practicing Christian or a Muslim you may not understand what I am saying but there are lots of Atheists/Agnostics who consider themselves Hindus, Jews, Buddists.
Faith is not black and white. Different people have different degrees of faith. Ranging from people losing faith at smallest problem(or not having faith at all) all the way to people who can kill themselves and others for their faith.
Another bushism
"I want to thank you for taking time out of your day to come and witness my hanging." -George W. Bush, at the dedication of his portrait, Austin, Texas, Jan. 4, 2002
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Nick-Gotts,
However I got your point. Chomsky is not a member of "faith".
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Astonishing early voting numbers coming out of Georgia and North Carolina and many other states with large black populations
http://www.earlyvoting.net/blog/
Remember in 2004, only 51% of blacks voted.
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In her chat with 'M. le President' the Governor said:
"yeah when you come into a position underestimated, it gives you the opportunity to prove the pundits and the critics wrong. . ."
In the interest of future historians, can anyone put their finger on when she took that opportunity, exactly?
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Dublin John,
You're right, of course, but I wonder just where such a right arises. People certainly have a right to exist (life, liberty, happiness...), but do states? Does the violent displacement, dispossession and oppression of a native population give the perpetrators a "right" to establish an apartheid state? I think not!And there is the matter of rights being matched by responsibilities, and in the case of the Zionist Entity, the less said on that matter, the better. UN resolutions disregarded, children killed, water stolen, land rights trampled, ....
Peace and Justice
ed
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I'm just glad there are organizations like this one.
http://ffrf.org/
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"For the UK, if you want balenced info, read the FT. [but only after carefully cutting out the pierson group controlled editorials and using them as bathroom paper.]"
Or in Doug speak, cut out everything i don't agree with
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If I may, today is the day that the reality of a failed republican bid for the white house is announced. Granted, there is one very unlikely path that may make the difference, but I would not want to see the ensuing legal battles a close race would warrant.
True, as a 'sitting on the fence Republican', my real tilt was to my party and values. That said I had to evaluate my value system and realise 'we won'!
1. Democracy: Freedom and choice. By presenting all sides of an issue, having it debated, found wanting or not, and the best done for the most as possible through freedom. Accomplished.
2. Fairness: Truly served in this round as in most of our elections. Race relations and unification, all sides got to air the differences and similarities,... we are Americans is a simularity that is undeniable. Accomplished.
3. Exposure: Again a rallying success. The exposure of right and left thinking is above board. We have once again to the chagrin of the world, been able to expose differences that would have torn a lesser country in half, to our benefit, to our liking and a salute to our new President.
4. Continuity: The arguments and bargains, the compromise and win, once again begin the next four years as we, yes I said we, the people once again hold our heads high as the beacon of freedom and truth for mankind.
5. Pride: What is a win or loss if not being proud of the battle waged. The shaking of heads and hands, the campign behind, the job of our nation is now upon us. With pride in all, we face the new day, new challange, with a new respect for ourselves.
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A Parable, and some perspective...
Peace, Rights, and Responsibility
ed
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68. At 4:51pm on 02 Nov 2008, pkkmres wrote:
"The point I was making was that there are lots of Jews who claim they are Jews but are Atheists. If you have a problem with that ask them why they do so. I just listed few people I knew who are Atheists/Agnostics but still consider themselves Jews."
I've heard the expression 'Cultural Catholics'. I imagine there are 'Cultural Jews' as well. That is to say, people can be brought up with a particular religion, their heritage may be in that religion, but they may neither believe in or practise it themselves.
Many people would, I suspect, think of eg Woody Allen as Jewish, even though AFAIK he's an atheist.
[I'm reminded of a Jimmy Carr joke, which will probably upset Magic - Lord knows, it doesn't take much - hope it doesn't upset anyone else...
"I think Jews are too wishy-washy
Christians say 'I'm a Christian'
Atheists say 'I'm an atheist'
But Jews say 'I'm Jew-ish'....
:-) )
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"unless you are bigoted against Jews or support terrorism; you can't deny Israel's right to exist."
No one is denying israels right to exist. Had i been alive at the time, i'd have applauded it. Hoever there wasn't an Israel shaped hole just sitting there, they took over other peoples alnd and homes.
I have covered my view on terrorists here several times and won't bore people wit them again but to the palestinians the Israeli government are terrorists and i for one agree with them. Of course the PLO's reactions are also those of a terrorist.
Unlike you i can see both sides of the story.
did i say story? I meant tragedy
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Meanwhile, in Pennsylvania...McSenile and McGullible flog a dead horse...
Peace and Bonfires
ed
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75. At 5:12pm on 02 Nov 2008, DougTexan
Nice words.
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Justin, the real mystery is why McCain supporters know so little about his iffy background in both his personal life and Viet Nam and its aftermath.
Interesting news: This morning on a CBS interview Bill (Attack Dog) O'Reilly stated very clearly that he thought Obama had run a brilliant campaign and would govern to the center.
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# 21, 25, 49, 62
According to most Orthodox (who ARE fundamentalists), anyone with a Jewish mother is a Jew. According to Reform Judaism, anyone who says he is a Jew is a Jew.
Orthodox fundamentalists, particularly the SHAS party and also those from the separate school system, the knitted skullcaps ("kipa scuga"), are very fundamentalist and control the politics of Israel. The majority of Israeli Jews is thought to be secular.
In practice, it is a religio/ethnic identity and a cultural thing, more than a specific religious faith.
In addition to the manipulated fanatics of the America Bible Belt and the fundamentalists of Israel, we should also think of Islamics.
Perhaps the key question ought to be: "how tolerant is one of a contradicting belief?"
Times are changing with increasing speed and it is fairly normal to feel anxiety over change. Fundamentalism promises certainties and is thus welcomed by many in such times of change and perceived threat.
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pkkmres
Weak incompetent candidates who win office because of charisma usually make terrible leaders. Perhaps you have forgotten that due to President Kennedy's weakness and incompetence he nearly blew up the world and brought about an end to human life on earth. Or perhaps you are to young to have lived through it. Obama will be a disaster not only for America but for the entire world. The one saving grace is that if you are positioned well, there may be a way to get rich on it. I expect him to preside over a depression...and probably several wars. I hope I'm wrong but it looks gloomy to me. BTW, McCain would hardly be much better. He is clueless about economics.
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The reporter, Leanne Davis, seems not to know how to pronounce "Sarkozy."
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Doug,
I'll second that!
Peace and the re-birth of the American Dream!
Slainte!
ed
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ref #75
Doug we don't agree about a lot but we do agree about that.
Well said.
This kind of attitude though generally absent on some of these posts ensure America will survive and once again become an inspiration to us all.
Hopefully
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pkkmres@68,
Try googling "Buddhist faith" (you'll need to include the "h"). As for "You left out Hindu", do you really want me to list all the world's faiths? My response to your #39 would have been a good deal longer.
My #25 was simply pointing out an error, which the writer of the comment it contained accepted. Your #39 was, as far as I can see, completely irrelevant - why is what Einstein said relevant to whether Chomsky is an atheist?. That's why I asked what your problem was - I meant your problem with my #25. You still have not explained this.
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#21 Jackturk
Great post! I agree about growth of fundamentalism being the great danger in the world today and I add that the American Right is main cause of it. They whipped up Christian fundamentalism in the west, apologist and supporter of Zionism in Israel, armed and supported the mujadeheen while they discredited and undermined Arab secularism. The missing link in my theory is Iran, but the US dislike them for different reasons (kicking out their Shah for one).
You are right in that you can't reason with these people. When our global complacent culture meets the ailing global economy we'll see Nietzsche's prophecy of 'wars of which we have never seen' come to the fore. Life won't be worth living.
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Dublin John,
PeaceI have a good friend who says, "I'm Buddish!". Personally I'm culturally Christian, but don't consider myself limited to Christian dogma or wisdom, but freely drink at many fountains.
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# 82
One poster mentioned more than 150,000 absentee ballots coming from Israel:
?One contribution to the answer was provided by the American citizens in Israel who have already voted. According to press reports, almost all of them are Jews, most of them are Orthodox and most of them voted for John McCain. ?
[url]http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1225573929/
[/url]____________________
Of course, the Orthodox want the Iranians removed from their universe. Who better to do it than McCain?
Wouldn't conscription and a war economy will bring the USA out of its economic problems?
And McCain could sing "Bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran".
[How many know of the Nazi song ...
Bombing, bombing, bombing
Bombing on Engeland!...?]
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Just to be clear, I certainly don't deny Israel's right to exist, as a matter of fact I support it. I just wish they could be better neighbours.
Magic, please don't respond with a diatribe about Palestinian agression. Instead I would urge you to read Jewish professor Michael Neumann's book "The Case Against Israel"
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"Weak incompetent candidates who win office because of charisma usually make terrible leaders." - MAII
True, but you have presented no evidence Obama is either weak or incompetent, and since you managed to get where he grew up wrong, I don't think we need take your opinion seriously.
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"Asa Scott, please do me the courtesy of expressing my own oppinions."
Well I could but quite frankly I doubt I could capture the detached from reality quality you do so well.
"One point I am suprised with the link to the LA Times, who is holding on to a video showing Obama at a good bye party for a terroist spoaksman who now works at the politicaly correct Columbia University. The college that welcomes the President of Iran but won't let a conservative group speak freely."
Actually you know by any reasonable definition the president of Iran is a conservative? Indeed if he substituted the appropriate evangelical references for the Islamic ones in his statements he would blend right in with the Republican right.
"My objections to Obama have always been his resume and his positions"
Or at least what you imagine his resume and positions to be, regardless of all evidence and explanation to the contrary.
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I find the concept of "a country's right to exist" disturbing. A country is simply an arbitrary division of land, and the people who live within those abstract borders.
Borders do not exist. They are a human abstraction. We all imagine these giant black lines criss-crossing the world, and draw them on maps, but that does not make them any more real. Their reality depends solely on human consensus. And in many cases, it seems humans do not agree.
Why does Israel have more right to exist than Palestine (which officially doesn't), or the USA (which does), or StephenDerryLand (which really should)?
The important thing should not be irrelevant trivia like where the borders are or what the area between the borders is called, the important thing should be that all the people in any given location have an equal say in the way they are governed and the choice of who governs them. And whoever that should be, that the government has the same obligations to all those people equally, regardless of religion, ethnic origin, gender, age or any other arbitrary division.
My personal opinion is that borders (like religion) are such a troublesome concept, creating artificial divisions between people and creating unnecessary "them and us" situations all over the world. Unitary world government is surely our future, but I fear it is a very long way off.
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One poster mentioned more than 150,000 absentee ballots coming from Israel:
?One contribution to the answer was provided by the American citizens in Israel who have already voted. According to press reports, almost all of them are Jews, most of them are Orthodox and most of them voted for John McCain. ?
[url]http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1225573929/
[/url]____________________
The moderators are having trouble with the fuller posting, so let's try this.
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
I suppose his aunt raises the serious issue of immigration in America, the poison chalice for any politian in the land of immigrants.
Quite a problem the world over, and i see little serious and humane debate by the people who can attemt to address it.
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# 90 # 95
Since McCain has sung his song about
"Bomb, bomb, bomb, Iran", one can understand the Orthodox fundamentalists of Israel using their absentee ballots massively in his favor.
As they are above reported to have done.
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Per the Palin prank: What kind of idiot would have taken that wacked out accent as French?
Oh, sorry, Sarah answered that one by holding a "I'm so important the French president would call me instead of McCain, and hold a conversation full of injudicious remarks over the phone" conversation.
Hubris+0 common sense=Disaster
Someone on her staff is either very silly or else has it in for her. Why would that call be put through at all?
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#30 exserviceman:
"This Aunt thing is a non story. Mccain's campaign is not interested and wish it would go away.
John Mccain's nonimation campaign was virtually destroyed when he backed an immigration reform bill. The main point of the bill was that immigrants allready in the US who had broken no US law would get citizenship and the right to work, and their kids into school without fear."
A fair point, a shame we haven't seen more of the john McCain who was willing to take such a politicial risk in this campaign. I know you think many of us just have it in for McCain but I for one feel its a damnded shame he didn't get the nod in 2000 or 2004, things could be very different in the world if he had.
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#74 everyoneiscrazy
OTOH carefully cutting out loo paper suggests a degree of anal retention.
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"Aunti" is a nonstarter of a story; neither Fox News nor The New York Post run it as a lead article. Like the The Sunday Times' "endorsement" of Mr Obama, no-one in America pays any serious attention to what British newspapers say, any more than voters take into consideration what the BBC and its reporters think.
#6. laughingfat_steve: "the shallow attractions of living in the good old U-S-of-A."
Really not so shallow any more than the 'shallow attractions' of living in the UK.
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#98
Some may not now be familiar with the WW II Luftwaffe song:
"...Bombing, Bombing, Bombing
Bombing on Eng-e-land"
Any connection with McCain's song
about bombing Iran?
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ref #65
Doesn't change the fact that he was a spokesman for a terrorist orginization
And I am willing to bet you could google some of the worst right wing dictators have found that they went to Oxford, Harvard or Yale
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ref #91
Jackturk: Will you in turn read Alan Dershowitz Harvard Proffesor's book the case for Israel?
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came out of it WELL?
she didn't click when she was told "sarkozy's special advisor" was ageing rock star johnny halliday, or when the names of the canadian and quebecois prime ministers were completely made up or when sarko said he could see belgium from his house.
naive and ignorant in the extreme.
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83/ MarcusAurelius
(with the caveat that your credibility is already suspect from your ignorance of Obama's history!)
All politicians are elected on the basis of charisma, more so where the electorate is larger and less educated.
The accusations of inexperience in government, lack of substance behind the charisma, and using a professional organised campaign to flood your message to the voters were applied to Tony Blair during the 1997 campaign.
He won by a landslide, he was re-elected twice, obviously the merits of his success as a Prime Minister are subjective but no-one on Earth denies that he is a very capable politician and Britain is a very different place as a result of his leadership.
Obama is not the same as Blair, of course - but there are similarities. The point is no-one knows before the event how it will turn out, and it is more likely you are wrong than right (there are always scaremonger warnings during election campaigns, but it turns out there have been very few truly disastrous politicians elected to the highest office. Even Dubyah got re-elected...).
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75 Doug: nice post.
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47. I see no point in reading the rest of your post when you can't even get you first (and trivial) fact right. Obama did not "grow up on the mean streets of Chicago". He grew up in Hawaii and Indonesia, went to college in California, then to New York for Columbia University, then to Harvard Law in MA, and THEN the Chicago as a full grown adult. Shows how little you actually know about him before casting any vote. Read up, already..you have 2 days.
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Nick-Gotts
"I don't think we need take your opinion seriously."
Don't all little tin pot gods like you wish they could rule the world? Don't you wish you were the moderator so that you could eliminate all opinions you don't agree with? I'll bet in your real life you are bullied mercilessly by your boss, your wife, your children, everyone.
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"This was a hoot - and (hooray!) she came out of it rather well, no?"
Sorry Justin, forgot to answer.
Eh
No!
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# 83 The Spokesman for the Totally Negative Party makes a sweeping statement about "weak and incompetent leaders".
Thank God, it looks as though the election this week will be won by a strong and very competent candidate who is prepared to lead his country out of the mire of the past eight years.
Before Kennedy bashing, the spokesman for the TNP needs to listen to the tapes of Jack and Bobby Kennedy as they handled the Cuba Missile Crisis. They make a fascinating record of strong leadership in action.
It is true that Kennedy's record is tarnished by the Bay of Pigs affairs - but that has gone down in history as a lesson in not to proceed with the wilder plans that your predecessor put in place
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StephenDerry
Hear hear.
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94 Stephen: you may be right in your conclusion, though it may come a bit quicker than we think. There are now so many transnational issues that a nascent world government is underway, and of course there is the body of the United Nations. When we finally get around to looking at a stucture for practical world governance I believe we would do well to look to the USA as an example of federalism. The balancing of state vs federal powers, the bill of rights, the separation of legislature, judiciary and executive. I am not saying that other countries do not have anything to contribute, but just that America has more to offer the world than I think any of us imagine.
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New question:
What will it be when heavy urban areas of our country riot because McCain ends up winning the election? Stores looted and National Guard called out to put down insurrection?
Better yet, what will it be when there are riots because Obama wins? (From what I see, inner city and even colleges get into riots when their football teams win, imagine what it will be like for their 'celebrations' after this election!)
Is it my imagination, or is it that most of the riots happen in heavily populated urban areas (especially with high rates of welfare/unemployment), yet you almost never hear of riots in rural areas? Remember Rodney King riots? They rioted when the cops were not convicted, they when they were taken back to court and found guilty of civil rights violations they rioted again! Did it make any difference, or were they just in a bad mood?
This election could get out of hand just because. No real reason, just because a large group of people feel like doing something different that day (like rolling over cars or burning down buildings!).
But, we'll always have HOPE, and CHANGE. Yea, right. More welfare to support less people working. (I'd rather see all those people go out and get jobs and become real citizens, but not with HOPE to lead them on).
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decendents of the original
Mr Maverick denounce Mccain
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRImWNXzSHk
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104. MagicKirin wrote:
ref #65
"Doesn't change the fact that he was a spokesman for a terrorist orginization"
Be honest. You mean "Doesn't change my belief he was a spokesman for a terrorist organisation."
As so many have pointed out to you, DMT, MAII, jcputn and others who persist in flogging the same dead horses for days on end to the utter boredom of the rest of us, 'opinions' are not 'facts'.
Nor does repeating them even three times let alone three hundred make them true.
I do so wish 'pointless tedious repetition' was against the House Rules. It really ought to be.
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Xie Ming (95),
Thanks for posting the link, repeated hereExcellent piece from Avnery,
Peace and Optimism
ed
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114 a couple of clumsy sentences, but I hope my point was clear.
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Gerard Baker, long-time scourge of Obama, writes in The Sunday Times today that when people vote for Barack Obama on Tuesday they will be voting for competence and decency.
Even the sceptical Gerard has given up on
the incumbent incompetents and their would-be successors.
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#81.nessie1945: "Interesting news: This morning on a CBS interview Bill (Attack Dog) O'Reilly stated very clearly that he thought Obama had run a brilliant campaign and would govern to the center."
Although I agree, it should be remembered who cuts his paycheck! A pitty though that Mr M cannot rein-in Sean Hannity.
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#81.nessie1945: "Interesting news: This morning on a CBS interview Bill (Attack Dog) O'Reilly stated very clearly that he thought Obama had run a brilliant campaign and would govern to the center."
Although I agree, it should be remembered who cuts his paycheck! A pity though that Mr M cannot rein-in Sean Hannity.
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I see the usual suspects are trying to drag us all down into Avernus again and rational debate is becoming pointless.
I'm off to do some real reading.
(There are some good stories with squirrels in them they tell me. I'd been thinking of Alice Through the Looking Glass, but I think that might remind me of some contributors here.)
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Nick-Gotts
In order to get a better knowledge of our friend Marcus and his modus operandi, just click onto his name at the top of his post.
This will show you that he has been sounding off today on several BBC sites.
He does seem to be in a particularly bad mood today as he spreads his fire over a range of discussions and each time claiming an enormously superior knowledge to all the rest of us. Marcus, the polymath de nos jours.
Nevertheless, I don't think he is going to win many points in the "making friends and influencing people stakes"
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Re 115
So you think violence comes from the Left?
From the lynchings in the early 20th century, the bombing of a church, the killing of civil rights activists (both black and white in the '60's) to the shooting of Unitarian church members (this year and during a children's play, no less), the attacks from the Right have been many.
Palin's whipping up her crowd into hysterics is a lead-in to more violence. Her followers appear to be uncontrollably emotional. Since I live in a rural area and have grandchildren in my home, I haven't put out Obama signs, and have heard the same sentiment from others. I wish it were paranoia.
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#110 MarcusaureliusII:
"Nick-Gotts
"I don't think we need take your opinion seriously."
Don't all little tin pot gods like you wish they could rule the world? Don't you wish you were the moderator so that you could eliminate all opinions you don't agree with?"
Nice selective edit MAII of course what Nick-Gotts actually said was:
"...and since you managed to get where he grew up wrong, I don't think we need take your opinion seriously."
He dismissed your opinion not as an act of arrogance but simply because you got your basic facts wrong. You've simply added intellectual dishonesty to your failings.
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No.105 Magic
Michael Neumann's book was actually written as a response to Alan Dershowitz to correct his inaccuracies.
Isn't Alan Dershowitz also a Zionist?
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99, nessie.
"Per the Palin prank: What kind of idiot would have taken that wacked out accent as French?"
Sorry, Nessie, that accent sounded spot on to me.
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Musings on the election.
I think Cheney's endorsement of Obama was an act of spite. Bush is tired of being used as a punching bag so, since the Republicans will lose anyway, wants to see McCain go down in crushing defeat as a punishment for disloyalty. (also for running an idiotic campaign)
We have a family bet going on the outcome of the election. I say that Obama will get 367 electoral votes and win the popular vote by 9 per cent.
What are my fellow bloggers predicting?
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125, nessie.
"I haven't put out Obama signs, and have heard the same sentiment from others. I wish it were paranoia."
Even though I live in a very peaceful area, I keep my preference to myself. I do not want a rock thrown through my window. Although my state is an easy win for Obama, I see many signs supporting McCain, but none for for Obama.
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128
Perhaps I should offer my apologies to you then, but not to Sarah and her staff.
I'm betting you wouldn't have thought a real head of state would have held a conversation like that....
My house is still filled with birthday treats and I'm going to wean myself from the sweet-overload of the last couple of days by having a little 'hair of the dog' so to speak. If my hands aren't shaking too badly from the sugar rush, I'll be back.
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# 129 allmymarbles
I agree with you about Cheney - and I believe that great choking heave he gave after he had said the words was deliberate. And why did he wait until the eleventh hour to come out for McCain ?
Your projections are optimistic - but I don't think that McCain helped himself in getting the undecided vote out by comparing his campaign to shopping channel goods on SNL last night.
It was amazingly tacky and I can't think what his advisers thought they were up to.
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129
Cheney endorsed McCain.
I'm surprised anyone let him out of their sight long enough to do that sort of damage. FOX has hardly mentioned the bad news.
(Obama by a narrow margin. But I hope to God you're right. My heart couldn't take a close call.)
With a plate of chocolate in hand, I bid a temporary adieu.
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129 allmy: I'll say popular vote by 6 percent and 353 electoral votes
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#77
"I've heard the expression 'Cultural Catholics'. I imagine there are 'Cultural Jews' as well. That is to say, people can be brought up with a particular religion, their heritage may be in that religion, but they may neither believe in or practise it themselves."
Unlike other faiths, the Jews are a people. Catholics
are not a people: they come from many peoples. The
jewish religion is upheld only by jews as a people.
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#115. TMacPen: "What will it be when heavy urban areas of our country riot because McCain ends up winning the election? Stores looted and National Guard called out to put down insurrection?"
It would only be if Mr McCain wins the election by the slimmest of numbers and where there is doubt about the validity of that number. Any hint of vote-rigging, whether by computer hacking or more conventional methods, would give rise to a severely disaffected electorate "in heavily populated urban areas (especially with high rates of welfare/unemployment)", by which I can only assume you mean Black, so why not say so? You may care to read this article in The Hill to see what preparedness there is.
You write "you almost never hear of riots in rural areas" - for the good reason that they are rural and therefore not heavily populated. Small communities have no opportunity to riot, just as they have no ability to "march" for a cause. The biggest community activity might be an Independence Day Parade with a few flags and home-made floats. In any case, a "riot" in a small township such as Lake Elizabeth would hardly be as newsworthy as one in South Los Angeles, even though they are both in the same county. Three people in a fight is not news, but three hundred might be.
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133, Nessie.
129, Correction.
There is an error in the first line. I meant to say, "I think Cheney's endorsement of McCain...."
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#54 - middlecroony -- I don't know if you'll see this, but this may reassure you on Obama's inclusion of faith-based initiatives.
When I first heard of him, I looked him up online and found an old speech--
http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060628-call_to_renewal/
-- he'd delivered to an interfaith organization that worked to eliminate poverty and help low-income Americans in various social programs.
Obama argues three things in that speech that interest me (keep in mind he had a targeted audience).
1. He said that separation of church and state is vital -- we can't have the government dictating religion or vice versa -- but he said that Democrats have dropped the ball by applying that so strictly that they NEVER talk about religion except in terms of where it shouldn't apply. He noted that if Democrats and progressives refuse to talk about religion (including their own beliefs), then the right-wing nut jobs (er, evangelicals) will seize the microphone and preach their screwy visions of religious truth to America, painting moderates as godless and morally astray. He said that it's important to make clear one's own religious views to combat extremism and distortion (and this was years before the "Obama is a Muslim" scare tactic was used).
2. Obama there ARE ways to acknowledge and tap into the powerful role religion and religious communities play in the lives of many Americans ... as LONG as we don't assume this holds true for EVERYONE, and as long as we don't impose religious truths on others. He pointed out that MLK and Lincoln were effective communicators because they weren't afraid to use God and quote the Bible, which happens to be metaphors that many Americans connect with and understand at an emotional, deep level. Strip God and all religious references out of the speeches of those men, and their messages would've been lifeless, ineffective. Yet neither of them was trying to make a CHRISTIAN nation... they were just speaking through the metaphor of Christian values.
3. Obama, as a longtime community organizer, knows there's some things that churches are really good at: helping the poor and disenfranchised, reaching out to the minorities that democracy/majority-rule tend to lose sight of. Also, Obama often notes that while government can fund education and create rule of law, it can't instill ethics or change behavior very easily -- he's fond of saying that it's up to parents to turn off the TV and make kids do their homework. Church is one vehicle that can help in instilling right and wrong, a work ethic, various core beliefs in people. Obama also notes this is common to MOST religions and churches -- despite doctrinal differences between, say, Jews and Sikhs, there's a core set of ethics of compassion and justice that most religions teach.
His faith-based initiatives... he's renamed them something else, to stress his own view of religion, but I forget what it is... are shaped by the religious groups he's worked with as a community organizer, such as Sojourner where he gave this speech. Sojourner tries to help those in need according to the teachings that Jesus preached. That's not a bad thing to do, as LONG as they don't require those who receive their help to follow their religion.
It's a tricky balance to strike, but I think Obama's multicultural background gives him an edge on most of us in striking that balance. He grew up for a few years in a Muslim country. He's not like any president we've had before in that respect.
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ref #127
You make it sound being a Zionist is a bad thing
It is something to be proud of.
But Dershowitz is an acknowledged authority on Israel who debunked Jimmy Carter false statements in the Arpatheid State.
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I think the prank call reflects really poorly on Palin's staff.
theodalisque.wordpress.com
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135, guardian.
"Unlike other faiths, the Jews are a people. Catholics are not a people: they come from many peoples. The jewish religion is upheld only by jews as a people."
This has always been a problem for atheistic Jews. People's assumptions do not allow them to separate religion from their racial group.
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129 allmy: to explain I think the following states will go to Obama staring with the most likely VA/OH/FL/NC/MO/IN/ND/MT/GA - very debateable of course! Right now I think Obama will make it to NC, narrowly lose the next 2 and be 3 to 5 points behind in MT and GA. Another couple of percent in the popular vote and ... likewise a couple of percent less and it will start getting tight. Fun and speculation!
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How come pretty much everyone posting from the right has the same disregard for facts, logic, and quite often spelling?
They all express opinions as facts and link to opinion blogs as though they were factual evidence.
They all quote selectively, pepper their posts with incorrect assumptions, and occasionally get very simple uncontroversial facts completely wrong.
They repeat allegations as though they were facts constantly no matter how frequently and comprehensively they are disproved, or at least shown as unproven.
None of them ever concede ANYTHING positive about their opponents - I don't think they are capable.
Basically, it gives the impression that everyone from the right is a nutjob. The people writing from the left seem universally moderate - they don't get as hysterical, they occasionally can see that some figures on the right such as McCain are not entirely evil, they don't make constant continual allegations against him (they defend rather than attack), and they don't use circular logic to defend their positions (always ending in "The bible says so" or "He/she/they would say that, they're biased").
I honestly believe that there must be some moderate conservatives out there with coherent arguments to make about the things they believe that don't involve smears and unfounded allegations. But where are they? Are they too ashamed of their extremist fellow travellers? Or are they all voting for Obama?
*NB I do realise that I am moderately liberal leaning, in the sense that most liberals agree with me on most things, in general the policies advocated and executed by President Clinton. But these comments pages seem to be solely a battle between extremist conservatives and moderate liberals.
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142, selfevident.
I am betting on his getting VA/OH/Fl/NC/MO/ND. I do not expect him to get IN/MT/GA. I do not think the race is tightening, but actually going the other way. Also I am banking on those cell phones that no one can poll.
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124. eightypercent: "In order to get a better knowledge of our friend Marcus and his modus operandi, just click onto his name at the top of his post.
This will show you that he has been sounding off today on several BBC sites."
Ten posts from him and it's only just noon on the West Coast! A tireless poster whose dislike of the BBC has become tiresome. Anyone would think that he pays a licence fee!
His animosity to all things European - and especially the United Kingdom (which he has never visited) - is almost legendary and his opinions should be considered in the knowledge of his extraordinary venom aimed at anyone and anything with which he disagrees. He gives 'reactionary' a bad name.
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# 143 Stepen Derry
Not only have they nothing positive to say about their opponents, they also have nothing positive to say about their right wing candidates.
Which makes me wonder whether the left-haters that we see on this site are really right wing by way of being republicans, or people who are outside the mainstream of any political party and have found this site a useful repository for their obsessions.
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No.139 Magic
If you, as an educated person, really do believe that a god has bequeathed a particular area of the earth to a certain group of people, as I have heard Zionsts claim, it's not only sad it's a tragedy. Just imagine for one minute that we all believed that about the same piece of land, doesn't it strike you as being illogical?
I am now an atheist but I was born and brought up a Christian. In my early teens I concluded that all my religious beliefs were not based upon anything a god had said because I came to realise that 'god' had not in fact spoken to anyone. My beliefs were actually based upon what a man had said that a god had said (why didn't he say those things to a woman?). Anyway, this was a shock which lead me to the conclusion that religion is not actually the word of god it is the word of man and if I was a decent person, why is my word not as good as his, whoever 'he' was? in my early years, I may not have been as wise as 'him' but I?m working on it.
Hope you're still with me.
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103. Xie_Ming wrote:
"Any connection with McCain's song
about bombing Iran?"
No, I don't thing the Beach Boys ever recorded that one.
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128. allmymarbles wrote:
"Sorry, Nessie, that accent sounded spot on to me."
Since the call came from Montreal, Quebec (where they're rather touchy about their French identity), there is a better than even chance that it was French.
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# 145
David C.
We are the mugs for even bothering to respond to him but we are having an on-line debate whilst he - as you say - is simply using the BBC websites for some obsessive ranting purpose of his own.
It is his problem - not ours.
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144 allmy: yep there are still some unknowns out there, the young vote, final turnout and the last 48 hrs. I don't expect him to get GA/MT either, but MO/ND and IN are going to be very close. Apparently there has been massive early voter turnout in GA. Everyone is still being cautious, but I would tend to agree with you, not much tightening going especially at national level. A little bit in PA and VA, but really not very much. If McCain does win this, nobody will trust a poll for a very long time ...........
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to john-dublin
before you go making sweeping generalizations, spreading hate and bile- you might want to at least have a basic grasp of what the hell your talking about.
"I would have a doubt, in that I genuinely don't know if most Zionists are religious fundamentalists - Wikipedia points out that it was originally more a nationalist and secular movement than a religious one."
It shocks and angers me that you waited untill after your original post condeming zionisim as fundementalisim, to conduct even the most basic of research on the movement you compared to terrorisim.
So let me correct your appaling ignorance- zionisim is a secular movement, a natinolaist movement born out of the 19th century global move towards nationalisim. It calls upon a state for the jewish people, so as to prevent the countinuing antisemetisim and murdering of the jewish people in Europe and Russia- it made no claims to the Kingdom of Solomon, as its borders. Uganda and areas of Southern America were discussed as potential territories to create the jewish state. The claim to Israel as its base stem from the Balfur Decleration- made by the british empire that controlled the area at the time- later ratified by the UN.
The magority of Zionists are not even religous, let alone fundementalists- the magority of the jewish population is Israel is also secular. Again your lack of knowlege of the existence of secualr jewery really shows why you shouldnt be blogging on these matters to begin with. The modern Zionist movement and the magority of people living in Israel- don't claim god given right, to all the lands of aincient israel, promised by god (those lands include jordan and syria as well by the way). I must assume your referring to the West Bank (not Gazza of course- which has as im sure you know been disengaged from, without and concessions asked of the palastinians- such as stopping to shell Israel daily with over 50 rockets), which is very much up for negotiation as we speak- the fact that two deeply imbitted sides that deeply distrust each other, find it difficult to negotiate over a final situation- is natural.
The "dehumanization" you speak off is first of false, as huge ammounts of money is sepnt by the Israeli army minimizing collatoral damage- its not perfect of course, it never can be when your fighting terrorists who hide out in the general populace too cowed to resist them, but its far better then say the US and British attempts in Iraq.
As for "self-hating-jews" Noam Chomsky, is an antizionist one of many (anti zionisim by the way is baised in the more extreme or "fundemental" elements of judadasium, further weakening your argument- who claim that god has not yet givin the jewish people permission to enter Israel), only truly ignorant people would call him a self hating jew, as most people can diffrentiate between judasium and zionisim as two very seperate entities (the fact that you in your ignorance can't is not suprising). Is there an extreme ignorant element that calls him self-hating? Yes, but they are a tiny minority, seeing as many Israeli officials and leading Rabbis have met with Noam Chomsky in many diffrent forums.
To sum up- your attempt to paint a picture of zionisim as an all collective form of judasium, that is both religous and fundemental in its beliefs is baised not on fact or intelligence, but of your own colurful beliefs fed by igonarance and feelings of self importance that lead you to spout such nonesense as truth. Let me end this post as I began- with a plee for you to at least attempt to gain kindergarden level of knowledge on a subgect before opening your mouth.
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#104 MagicKirin wrote:
"ref #65
Doesn't change the fact that he was a spokesman for a terrorist orginization"
The key word here is "was".
Many former terrorists (and this man Khalidi had links to the PLO but no one seems to be saying he actually engaged in any acts of terror) are now rehabilitated - try Gerry Adams for a start. The list is long.
I believe that the potential of dialogue and resolution should never be underestimated.
The PLO / Israel issue is more complicated than most ..... I can see both sides of the coin, and it has been amply and well covered on this thread.
Therefore Magic, I do not see the relevance that he was in the past a spokesman for the PLO.
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From his own sister;
"He struggled with his racial identity and turned to marijuana to block the questions out, he wrote."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/02/14/politics/main3831108.shtml
From his friend;
"His relationship with Obama was like that of brothers, Kakugawa told ABC News one recent afternoon in Los Angeles. "Everybody said they always saw him smiling and happy. I didn't. I got to see the turmoil, I got to see how he really felt. Here's a kid who was growing up as an adolescent in a tough situation. He felt abandoned, he felt that his father abandoned him and his mother was always pursuing her career."
In his own words; "I messed up more than I should have."..." know the toll it took on me, not having a father in the house."
Starting 5:35 into his Father's day speech.
http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gG5nFK
Yes he grew up in Indonesia and Honoulu. He didn't become street smart in Chicago cavorting with criminals until later.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jan/30/obama-donates-70000-from-fraud-suspect/
But then he turned to his pastor for spiritual guidance and salvation, the Revered Wrong;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnlRrxXv-v8
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McCain has to win Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida to even have a chance, and cannot afford to lose in any of the Red states in which Obama is challenging or leading, according to just about every poll.
It's possible, but only in the sense that it is equally possible he could get run over by a bus tomorrow.
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From his own sister;
"He struggled with his racial identity and turned to marijuana to block the questions out, he wrote."
From his friend;
"His relationship with Obama was like that of brothers, Kakugawa told ABC News one recent afternoon in Los Angeles. "Everybody said they always saw him smiling and happy. I didn't. I got to see the turmoil, I got to see how he really felt. Here's a kid who was growing up as an adolescent in a tough situation. He felt abandoned, he felt that his father abandoned him and his mother was always pursuing her career."
In his own words; "I messed up more than I should have."..." know the toll it took on me, not having a father in the house."
Starting 5:35 into his Father's day speech.
Yes he grew up in Indonesia and Honoulu. He didn't become street smart in Chicago cavorting with criminals until later.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jan/30/obama-donates-70000-from-fraud-suspect/
But then he turned to his pastor for spiritual guidance and salvation, the Revered Wrong;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnlRrxXv-v8
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re my own post 153
Argh - got sucked into to responding to Magic's conspiracy theories.
My previous post in way acknowledges that Obama has any sort of intimate policy relationship with Khalidi .....
Note to self - try not to get sidetracked by smoke and mirrors.
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152 kalman-jet
WOW, don't blame john-in-dublin, it was me that started it!
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I think a bus is more likely ...
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83. At 5:24pm on 02 Nov 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
pkkmres
Weak incompetent candidates who win office because of charisma usually make terrible leaders. Perhaps you have forgotten that due to President Kennedy's weakness and incompetence he nearly blew up the world and brought about an end to human life on earth. Or perhaps you are to young to have lived through it. Obama will be a disaster not only for America but for the entire world. The one saving grace is that if you are positioned well, there may be a way to get rich on it. I expect him to preside over a depression...and probably several wars. I hope I'm wrong but it looks gloomy to me. BTW, McCain would hardly be much better. He is clueless about economics.
-----------------------
But why do not you comment on his(Obama's) intelligence? That's a desirable quality in a president.
Whether Obama will be terrible or not, only time can tell.
Anyone making decision about whom to vote should consider the current affairs and data.
I would choose someone who is barely knowledgeable on economy rather than a self-admittedly ignorant. Also 72 is no time to start learning. Free-market economy works always and survives tough times. The problem it can also cause enormous suffering in the process. So it needs to be regulated and de-regulated so as to minimize suffering.
Also I would not want to continue to pay for Iraqi freedom. Individual responsibility also means that Iraqis have to stand up for themselves and start taking responsibility.
As a centrist I think current situation needs regulating and pulling out of Iraq. And people should start to evaluate Obama right from his inauguration, assuming he wins.
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About -isms,
Just curious... how many differences are there between Bushism and Buddhism...?
Right now, I'm leaning Buddhism, but all this fun that you get from Bushism is tempting...
#125, Nessie,
I hope that all these Obama supporters go vote. Let a landslide make these narrow minded people feel ashamed.
Tragic thing if your feeling being terrorized is based on truth. But maybe it's not that bad, after all. Just think about it, how many people in your neighborhood did go to Palin's rally...? I expect these haters to be a small minority.
(Landslide may be too optimistic, but the number of early Democratic voters is very high... and I think many of the young voters will vote, because of Obama's charisma.)
#129, Allmymarbles,
"I think Cheney's endorsement of McCain was an act of spite."
(Funny how the mind works: I 'read' McCain in your original post iso Obama...)
Exactly. I think it could be even worse:
I wouldn't be surprised if the introduction of Palin to McCain was as well. Negative campaigning: was it McCain's suggestion? Don't think so...
In this assumption, the Bushmates probably think that Obama will not manage to clean up their mess, which will give them an advantage in the 2012 elections.
However, if these are not deliberate attempts of the Bushmates, maybe it's fate that's interfering with the elections ;-)
Or, less interesting but more logical: old tactics don't work forever. Something about balls and brains, 20th and 21st century...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/nov/02/us-elections-2008-barack-obama
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#138 sepdet
Thank you for this thought-provoking post.
I had not looked into Obama's faith-based initiative, and am pleased to see how inclusive and rational he is.
The problem I have with the Christian Right (so noisy in scaremongering) is that they imply that they alone have the moral high ground.
A melting pot like the USA should be able to take the values from various different religions (which are often more similar than people think) and from humanism and build on the good, without imposing any particular dogma.
Religion itself is a private matter and thus has no place in either government or school.
I sincerely hope that an Obama administration will see a vast increase in cooperation on a national and global level and a decrease in the politics of fear of the unknown.
peace and understanding
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87. At 5:29pm on 02 Nov 2008, Nick-Gotts wrote:
I meant your problem with my #25. You still have not explained this.
-----------------
I already clarified in 69 that I got your point. I have nothing more to say.
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99 nessie1945 wrote:
"Per the Palin prank: What kind of idiot would have taken that wacked out accent as French?"
____________
An idiot who's never been to France? :-o
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#6: Anyone reading this blog for any length of time and who hasn't realised that Mr Webb has gone native simply hasn't been paying attention.
I imagine he probably even thinks that there's some sort of 'special relationship' between the US and UK that's been to the UK's overall benefit and is somehow worth preserving.
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ref #153 and #157
First since Obama's has sold through in your terms (smoke and mirrors) his judgement.
All these people he has associated with is relevant.
He does not have a resume so the U.S is taking a chance on trusting someone on this vital position.
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#150. eightypercent: "We are the mugs for even bothering to respond to (MAII) but we are having an on-line debate whilst he - as you say - is simply using the BBC websites for some obsessive ranting purpose of his own.
It is his problem - not ours."
His problem could probably be resolved with Lithium or Seroquel, that is if he's not already taking one or the other - and has forgotten his dose today.
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#2, which media, exactly? You do realize this is Canadian media, yes? I don't think you can use a Canadian talk show to prove that ABC is filled with liberals, sorry.
#4, he meant that we're jittery in our ambitions for victory, not that we're nervous that we'll vote for McCain.
Justin, I don't think Palin came out of it very well, if you read the transcript, as others have said. I don't care, and I'll give her that she's probably exhausted and that if it had been a real call, it would have been a meaningless courtesy call anyway. But still. She wasn't exactly speedy in her thoughts after "Sarkozy" referenced "Hustler?s 'Nailin Palin.'"
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
Ref 125
"Since I live in a rural area and have grandchildren in my home, I haven't put out Obama signs, and have heard the same sentiment from others. I wish it were paranoia."
Unfortunately, dependent on where you live, your fears are based on reality. I live in Central Florida and have not put up an Obama sign in my yard for fear of vandalism and ostracism. In fact, when we visited our daughter in Jacksonville (Northern Florida) a couple of weeks ago she suggested we should take our Obama sign off our car because she was concerned. When we drove through her neighborhood it was not too difficult to understand the reason for her apprehension; not only there were McCain/Palin signs in about 80% of the houses but there were also other signs that left little doubt about the level of socio-political intolerance in some parts of our country.
Frankly, I am puzzled by all the polls that suggest Obama is leading in Florida. Unless his lead is attributed to a very significant Democratic majority in Southern Florida I don't have a clue what they are talking about.
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149 timohio wrote:
128. allmymarbles wrote:
"Sorry, Nessie, that accent sounded spot on to me."
Since the call came from Montreal, Quebec (where they're rather touchy about their French identity), there is a better than even chance that it was French.
_______________
Well, Canadian French is to Parisian French as Liverpudlian is to Queen's English: It sounds very different.
Not being used to hearing it, I can barely understand Canadians when they speak (French, at least...).
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#166 Magickirin:
"First since Obama's has sold through in your terms (smoke and mirrors) his judgement.
All these people he has associated with is relevant.
He does not have a resume so the U.S is taking a chance on trusting someone on this vital position."
And again the same old same old, try something new Magic, we've heard this record one too many times.
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McCain camp claiming they will probably win IA and PA ... and CA too no doubt ...
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Reading the comments here, one no longer needs to wonder how Kerry lost in 2004. Even the polling has not started in some key states and people are already betting about Obama's majority, not about if he is going to win or not.
Dems have this habit of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.
As Yogi says it ain't over till its over.
Overconfidence and complacency can kill.
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# 139 MagicKirin wrote:
"But Dershowitz is an acknowledged authority on Israel who debunked Jimmy Carter [sic] false statements in the Arpatheid [sic] State [sic]."
Or alternatively - Dershowitz is an acknowledged defender of Israel, who attacked and/or disagreed with Jimmy Carter's claims and statements in 'Palestine Peace Not Apartheid '.
I haven't read books by either author, nor do I plan to. I know Carter's book was controversial. I rather doubt that Carter came out and said 'yes Mr Dershowitz, you are right and i am wrong'. 'Debunk' means, AFAIK, 'disprove'.
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Marcus Aurelius II@110,
My, my, I have got under your skin, haven't I? As for your silly personal remarks, I'm not the one who feels the need to borrow the name of a Roman Emperor and noted philosopher!
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152. At 8:44pm on 02 Nov 2008, kalman-jet
This semi-literate screed falsely accused me of saying things I did not say.
When I pointed this out at some length - surprise, surprise, I was r*ferred to the M*ds.
He l*bels me - I get cens*red.
Go f*gure.
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166. At 9:22pm on 02 Nov 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #153 and #157
First since Obama's has sold through in your terms (smoke and mirrors) his judgement.
All these people he has associated with is relevant.
He does not have a resume so the U.S is taking a chance on trusting someone on this vital position.
------------------
His judgment not to enter is solid and had people been sane we would have save d a trillion and 3500 lives.
Guilt by association is non-sense. You do not have control over whom you meet. Neither should you stop talking to a person just because they had some radical idea long time ago. As along as the candidate himself acts legal we are fine.
I would take a blank resume to wrong resume anytime. By wrong resume I mean the resume having qualities that are harmful.
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OK - I'll try censoring myself and see if that works.
"158. At 8:54pm on 02 Nov 2008, Jackturk wrote:
"152 kalman-jet
WOW, don't blame john-in-dublin, it was me that started it!"
Thank you Jack
"Kalman-jet", this non-literate and untruthful name caller, attacks me by attributing to me views I never expressed. He says 'It shocks and angers me that you waited untill [sic] after your original post condeming [sic] zionisim [sic] as fundementalisim [sic], to conduct even the most basic of research on the movement you compared to terrorisim [sic]."
There was no such post by me. Mr/Ms Jet, be glad your posting is anonymous. There are laws against libel.
"Kalman-jet" clearly cannot read.
He clearly cannot write.
What on earth is he doing here?
His conclusion
"Let me end this post as I began- with a plee [sic] for you to at least attempt to gain kindergarden [sic] level of knowledge on a subgect [sic] before opening your mouth."
I would make the same suggestion with regard to you and [a] the English language and [b] the values of veracity, accuracy and honesty."
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Justin (have been out all day doing sensible things like shopping and drinking)
The hoax call was a hoot but how on earth did it ever get through to 'her people'?
Why on earth would the president of France want to call her with only a few days to go before voting?
Either her 'people' are as stupid or she is -and I am tempted to go for the latter, I'm sure President Sarkosy would love to go helicopter hunting with her. - is he fed up of his current wife already?
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174 pkkmres: you are right to some extent, but I have been following the polls closely for weeks, and unless they are all completely screwy, or something major happens in McCain's favour in the next 48 hrs, it is a question of the margin of Obama's win. The McCain camp are claiming that they will win IA and PA, but there is absolutely no data to support that except the McCain camp's internal data, which of course they are not sharing. Kerry was not in this position in 2004. I don't think the democrats are taking this for granted at all. It is just that some are starting to believe. Btw, am from the UK, and while I would prefer an Obama victory, I am also a just an observer. Whoever people support I hope they get out and cast their vote.
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Remember recently when someone here was claiming Obama's autobiography was written by William Ayers?
From the Murdoch Sunday Times - 'Republicans try to use Oxford don to smear Barack Obama'
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article5063279.ece
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181. At 9:56pm on 02 Nov 2008, selfevidenttruths wrote:
174 pkkmres: you are right to some extent, but I have been following the polls closely for weeks, and unless they are all completely screwy, or something major happens in McCain's favour in the next 48 hrs, it is a question of the margin of Obama's win.
------------
Being in a mathematical science field, I understand the models and that they are fairly accurate(95% confidence).
However the central assumption is that those whose answered actually go and vote. Complacency can render the assumption void.
Also the battles are on individual states and PA is getting closer. You can never trust or count on red states unless you have heavy leads which is not the case.
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eightypercent@124,
Thanks. I'm reasonably familiar with MAII and the other raving righties here, having lurked for some time before I got round to registering.
Someone asked for predictions. I won't attempt EC figures, but I predict Obama will win the EC easily, and will get a 6-8% lead in the popular vote. This is based not just on polls, but on the behaviour of the candidates (where they've been campaigning), the lack of Republican enthusiasm for McCain, the disparity in funds raised, registrations and volunteers, and the astonishing amount of early voting.
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ref #175
Well your last paragraph is correct. Carter refused to debate Dershowitz. And when Dershowitz was going to be an open forum at Brandies University, Carter whined untill Dershowitz was barred.
Jimmy Carter refused to allow any recognized expert to attend any college event to challenge his lies.'
Moderators there is no reason to challenge the truth
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179 john-in-Dublin
No problem.
By the way I stand by what I said regarding Zionism.
John, you'd better leave the room before the next tirade arrives :-)
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I can't believe Palin bought that outrageous french accent, he sounded like John Cleese in 'Search for the Holy Grail'...
she came out of it rather well... no? I fart in your general direction you stupid English pig dog!
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Easily out-clevered by French folk = Should not have finger on nuclear button.
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Look at this interesting comment from foxnews. Is this a trick to lower turnout?
"Oddsmakers say that being the deciding vote in a presidential election is about as likely as winning the Powerball jackpot." - foxnews.com
Guess that can make a few conservatives sit at home.
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Another fox story
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/11/02/report-professor-paid-g-prove-ayers-wrote-obamas-autobiography/
Says a California republican paid $10K to an Oxford expert to examine if Obama's autobiography compares with Ayers' "Fugitive Days".
Unfortunately for the conservatives the examiner concluded "very implausible".
I am being careful here not to copy and paste the story since that might be a violation and its foxnews. But follow the link for the story.
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The auntie story is clearly a last ditch effort by the hopeless McCain-Palin duo (alhtough I think O has had it coming - visiting ailing grandma but not destitute auntie - shame on you Barack, as Hillary C would say)
Don't worry oldboy, you will still have your chance to get this election in the courtroom like your hommie W.
As for Gouverneur Sarah, I think she is very good laughing stock, probably better than W himself.
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MARCUSAURELIUSII ADMITS HE IS WRONG: WORLD SHOCKED AND AWED
47/MarcusAurelius
"He was a troubled kid who grew up on the streets of Chicago."
154/MarcusAurelius
"Yes he grew up in Indonesia and Honoulu. He didn't become street smart in Chicago ... until later."
Congratulations! You are the first conservative in the history of these forums to acknowledge you are wrong.
You see how it pays to do the research BEFORE you post rather than AFTER you are challenged?
This is but one small step on the road to admitting that everything any conservative says ever is always automatically wrong. You'll get there.
Now we just need to get MagicKirin to acknowledge that you don't need to win the popular vote to become President, or that dictators are not limited to terms of office, or that independent means not in favour of one political party... he's still sticking to his guns on those three!
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I suspect that few posters here will have bothered to check the rants of MAII, but I was curious to see whether his bile extended to other subjects. One of his shorter postings on The joke that went too far reads:
We respect the dignity of others until they prove they no longer deserve it. This is how civilized people behave. Apparantly in Britain, that doesn't seem to be the way it is anymore. Not so long ago, Brits had a reputation of beeing aloof, cold, distant. Not anymore. The stereotype Brit is the soccer hooligan. This is the mentality shown on that program and by those who don't find anything wrong with it.
"The stereotype Brit is the soccer hooligan." For someone who has never stepped foot onto the shores of the United Kingdom, how could be possibly know? His opinions about American and British matters are similar, no-one is good enough, everyone and everything is rotten. If Jesus Christ were running for President, that would be wrong since his father would be in question and he challenged the authorities of the day.
If the result on Tuesday night is as expected, we can only hope that he will be so incensed that apoplexy will set in together with a concomitant inability to type. Our only hope is that, like Saul, he has a late conversion.
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# 152
Among many assertions and sweeping generalizations:
"The modern Zionist movement and the magority of people living in Israel- don't claim god given right, to all the lands of aincient israel, promised by god (those lands include jordan and syria as well by the way). I must assume your referring to the West Bank (not Gazza of course).."
_____________________-
Zionism began as a sort of Jewish communism.
Israel was essentially a socialist co-operative, and many kibutzim were idealists.
Avnery (see his URL above in Ed's post)
claims that 1967 changed this and the state of Israel changed to an exploitive and amoral entity.
Many still claim God's promise for everything between the Nile and the Euphrates, with parts of Iran and Saudi Arabia thrown in. The Gush Emunim (armed terrorists and settlers) claim the whole World.
If there is a "modern Zionist movement", I have no idea of its leadership or organization. I think that one would have to speak of individual parties in Israel.
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192. At 10:25pm on 02 Nov 2008, StephenDerry wrote:
This is but one small step on the road to admitting that everything any conservative says ever is always automatically wrong. You'll get there.
----------------------------------
I hope this is just rhetoric. There are some decent conservative ideas. And many conservatives have said things that are right(not wrong).
However one should know when the right wing ideology crosses into intolerance as it did in the last 8 years and still with the religious right.
I hope Marcus does not get "there", just needs to keep fear-mongering away and know when the nation is on the wrong track.
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Justin, I've been watching your commentary on the US elections on the BBC for a while and am amazed at your unfounded Obama-bashing at every opportunity. What's your beef with him? I have to chaAnd whatever happened to neutrality
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192. At 10:25pm on 02 Nov 2008, StephenDerry wrote:This is but one small step on the road to admitting that everything any conservative says ever is always automatically wrong. You'll get there.
----------------
Some sort of conservatism(not religious) is necessary to keep the country going extreme left. It is also necessary to keep deluded ultra liberals out of power.
The change that needs to happen should be incremental. Radical changes can produce radical problems.
Eg: you want to have multiple cultures living in harmony but you do not want too many immigrant too fast which may lead to backlash from natives and undo any progress.
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Justin, I've been quietly watching your commentary on the US elections on the BBC for a while now and I am amazed at your unfounded Obama-bashing at every opportunity you have. What's your beef with him? I have to change the channel whenever your face comes on... a disappointingly sickening and cheap way to let viewers know whose camp you are in...
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Republicain : I will vote for McCain because Obama is....
Democract : I will vote for Obama because he....
Well, this should sum up the Campaign. Hope the independents can see that the republician campaign has no substance and base mainly on hate the other candidate.
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Incredible! Justin, you have failed to capture the hearts of your readers, just as the McCain / Palin fiasco of hate has failed.
Why reinforce this mindless right wing prejudice towards Obama? Do you want a world of hate to reign?!?
Your comment on this shows stereotyping is at the core of your political and personal outlook. Very base, very obtuse.
Palin came off as she always has, a complete dizzy headed fraud; has no clue how to behave with dignity or intelligence. Are you sure we have the same events in mind here, this sounds like a wind up from
you, surely these cant be your views?!
My respect for you and BBC has been damaged today.
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I refer MA2 to Dougtexan's post of earlier today. Am not suggesting Doug has had a conversion, but I have to say I was not really expecting it ...
If I read something similar from MA2 I will presume that a formerly very hot place is now hosting the NHL ...
pkkmres: nothing to argue really, the poll on Tuesday will hopefully have a 100 percent confidence level!
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186. At 10:09pm on 02 Nov 2008, Jackturk wrote:
"179 john-in-Dublin
No problem.
By the way I stand by what I said regarding Zionism.
John, you'd better leave the room before the next tirade arrives :-)"
Leave the room?!
Them's fightin' words!
I ain't leaving. He can leave
;-)
["fightin' "? Dear God -I'm a-turnin' into Sarah Palin, By Jiminy, you betcha.]
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# 185 MagicKirin
"Jimmy Carter refused to allow any recognized expert to attend any college event to challenge his lies.'"
And now - a Beginners' Guide - "How To Speak Kirin"
"Lie" = any assertion MagicKirin happens to disagree with
"Fact" = Any belief or prejudice of MagicKirin
"Hate group, Hate Monger etc" = in English this refers to groups such as the KKK. In Kirin it refers to any group or person he dislikes or disagrees with, and in particular any group or person who has ever expressed a view or thunk a thought in any way critical of the State of Israel or GW Bush. Also includes philanthropists who have given away billions of dollars, the wife of the next President, and controversial UK stand up comedians
"Phoneys" = People Kirin dislikes, such as Nelson Mandela or Archbishop Tutu, regardless of whether they have spent [and indeed risked] their lives fighting injustice and racism
"Evidence, grammar, spelling and punctuation" = There are no known equivalents of these concepts in the Kirin tongue.....
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A suggestion. Can all the people forever whinging about how biased poor old JW is either [a] stop? or [b] if they feel compelled to keep whinging, at least provide some concrete evidence beyond eg 'his bias is obvious'?
It's not obvious to me. As should be clear, I support Obama. As far as I can see, most of the latest whinges think he's biased towards McCain. If he had such an 'obvious' bias, then he wouldn't have been accused of being blatantly biased, at different times, in favour of
-Obama
-McCain
-Clinton [H]
AFAIK the only person he hasn't been [allegedly] biased in favour of is Ron Paul. [Remember him?] Then again, he probably was, and I missed it.....
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199 Will_Ng
To be fair, you occasionally get Republicans saying why they will vote for McCain...
eg, He's a maverick, he's was in a war where he got caught and tortured, he won't negotiate with terror countries, he wants the US to stay in Iraq forever, he works with Democrats and fights his own party, he's had to campaign with no money, he thinks a foetus is worth more than the life (or health) of a woman, he wants to drill for oil anywhere and everywhere, and prefers tax cuts for the rich rather than for the poor.
What they don't explain is why any of these things would make any rational person want to vote for McCain!
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#65
Eighty,
Didn't do me any harm!
Baaaaahhhh!
General Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett aka Sam
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Obama let something slip that I think everyone should hear.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s
...and it looks like a few people are taking notice.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=74643
http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=305420655186700
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203/john_in_dublin
I tried referring him to Websters Dictionary but he said that was well known for its left-wing bias in definitions of so-called "words."
I guess that explains why he has difficulty with his spelling.
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#75
Amen to that!
Proud Sam
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187
I can't believe Palin bought that outrageous French accent, he sounded like John Cleese in 'Search for the Holy Grail'...
______
Since Palin's AIP friends were talking about joining up with Canada after they seceded from the U.S., you'd think she'd be more up on all things Canadian.
Had the AIP followed this plan, I can hear the word spreading across the UK about the latest subjects to the monarchy, starting with, "Your majesty, I have some disturbing news...."
Most of us think that because Palin is radical and dim she couldn't be taken seriously by the Right after she costs McCain the election. Just keep in mind that radical and dim has held the White House for nearly 8 years. One of the young women I know said she enjoyed hearing Bush's gaffs because "It makes him sound human." (I'm not making this up.)
I told her I preferred my humans a little higher on the evolutionary ladder.
Interesting to hear Swarzenegger's comments o Obama: "...scrawny...skinny...." That's IT? That's the best he can do? If any of the garbage spouted by the conspiracy theorists on the blogs had an ounce of truth, wouldn't Arnie have used them? You betcha!
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185 Magic
Before I sign off for the night I really must correct your view of Alan Dershovitz.
Dershovits' book to which you refer, is full of inaccuracies and Carter would not debate him because he considers Dershovitz to be ignorant of Palestinian affairs and would only try to turn the debate into a slanging match for which he is renowned.
However, when Dershovitz was challenged to a debate by Norman Finkelstein who wrote 'Beyond Chutzpah' a book that Dershovitz used despicable methods to have banned, because it highlights the faults in his own book, he refused.
The story is HERE
This is why Zionism is so dangerous.
Over and out.
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Baaah, indeed, Sir.
I'd like to remind you of something the General said which might have a bearing on the McCain campaign, "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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I just want to congratulate john-in-dublin on being the first comment.
Well done John.
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#152. kalman-jet - With forty spelling errors (not counting repeats) can you really expect anyone to take your post seriously? Doesn't your computer or operating system have a spell-check? Whatever the merits or faults of your opinion, no-one will take any note of them if you cannot at least check your entry. If necessary, type it as text and run a spell-check, then post it.
MagicKirin might take that advice as well.
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Sepdet (138),
Thanks for that. Excellent.
Peace and understanding, Faith, Hope and Charity
ed
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All these nasty Palin comments, she's so stupid, she has no experience...
She has more time in executive government than Obama. That's why he hired Joe "Amex" Biden.
It's obvious it's because she's female - all the lipstick on pig jokes, all the Hillary jokes about being a bitch. But when Obama did the same things he was being 'strong.' Women have to work so much harder - even harder than a black guy - to become accepted as a leader.
It's funny how these democrat supporters think sexism is OK - and in a nation where the promise is for change in society - they show none. Obama likes to take the somewhat higher road, but some of you are dragging way below the bottom of the proverbial barrel.
I supported Hillary btw and am male.
PS. Why the hell is the BBC paying 5 or more reporters to travel this roadshow? What a waste of resources - you could do just as much from a Macbook and a telephone in London.
Anyone there heard of carbon offset?? The BBC should be planting a forest...
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The Left will always win over the Right, because we have spell-checkers!
And paragraphs!
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This comment was removed because the moderators found it broke the House Rules.
"Baaah, indeed, Sir.
I'd like to remind you of something the General said which might have a bearing on the McCain campaign, "If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through."
- so i'm a sheep? not like the rest of you happily taking the steaming pile of BS spoon fed to you by your trusted media!
over here, all paper and network ratings are in the toilet because nobody trusts them anymore! the mainstream media is practically an extension of the obama campaign. anyone who who even dares to ask a real question is cut off. Cenralists (and yes, so right leaning) radio stations are being shut down or muzzled. just a few days ago journalists from the New York times, the Washington Post, and the Dallas Morning News were sent packing because their papers endorsed McCain. This is extremely disturbing behavior by Obama, and raises real questions about how an Obama administration would treat dissension from the press.
- and don't let those polls fool you, even Gallup admits some 80% of people contacted refuse to participate (for some odd reason, gee I wonder why??!). The figures so proudly touted as Obamas insurmountable lead are only based on some 20% of those contacted. This is why ACORNs involvement is so critical - he knows this thing is FAR from won, and stealing this thing (like the primaries) might just be the only way.
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214: "If necessary, type it as text and run a spell-check, then post it."
Alternatively, ensure that you cannot hit that "post comment" too early. Happened to me for the second time.
I just wanted to say that the old version proved it was the noun, and not the verb.
As for the prank - let's agree Palin noticed it a bit late. But what would you do if it happened to you? I remember being the victim once myself. I threw down the receiver at once and without any explanation when it was clear it was a prank. The whole thing was on a loca
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Re # 207.
You again.
I thought we cleared this up?
He didn't "let it slip" he said in in a prepared speeach in front of a large crowd and a video camera.
Also i clicked that top link link and found the leading headline
"Is everyone looking for Noah's Ark in the wrong place?"
the second one calles McCain bith "an ace" and "cutting-edge"
Try linking even to a moderate right site, or, (and call me crazy on this out there suggestion) possibly a NEWS website!
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Oh dear, disaster strikes again. What's happening? Hitting the PgDn button? CTRL or ALT P?
So - the local radio. I remember the two friends who had heard told me they thought it was courageous to just throw the receiver. I think that is funny: if I had known it was on a local radio, I would not have just thrown the receiver - I would have thought that rather cowardly, and would have told them what I thought about them. Now how could a politician really tell such people what she thought about them? And of course, if the whole spectacle was broadcast on another medium, TV for instance, just throwing down the receiver is "not done".
Now, I do not like SP (the thought of her becoming US VP frightens me to bits) but this kind of joke is a bit "cheap" in my view.
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FiveThirtyEight.Com: More Than Just Numbers
But y'all already knew all about the best data analysis on the web, didn't y'all?Peace and Landslides
ed
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McCain throwing a last minute "Hail Mary" pass?
People don't need another four years of Republicans ruining the country. Bush's cronies should be punished, and badly, for their total incompetence in bringing the country down to its knees.
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#207, niwus, very scary stuff...
Watch the mainstream media ignore it.
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#210. nessie1945 "Interesting to hear Schwarzenegger's comments on Obama: "...scrawny...skinny...." That's IT?"
Pretty nervy, considering that he looks like this! As former California Governor Jerry Brown said, "Less is more", which applies to Mr Obama as well.
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"It's funny how these democrat supporters think sexism is OK "
We don't.
No body ever made the lipstick on a pig jibe about Palin. She said herself what is the difference between a hockey mom and a rothweiller - lipstick.
She uses her feminism and looks (i wouldn't kick her out of the bed for eating crisps) constantly through flirting and winking yet when she is criticised sexism is brought up.
Most of her "executive" experience is mayor of a town with approx 6000 people and a $12m budget.
"Women have to work so much harder - even harder than a black guy - to become accepted as a leader"
Riiiiiiiight. It is a widely held view that if Clinton and been picked she would have a lot less issues than Obama does. Now if it was a black woman i could see your point, racism is much more widespreas then sexism in America.
We think she is stupid as she has shown herself to be ignorant on a huge number of issues. If she were a man she would get the same amount of stick. Republican must also think sexism is ok as they most likely chose her to pick up Clinton votes that were sore with Obama.
Actually, if she were a man, she'd be George W Bush.
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Enough of all this human election stuff!
Hideouts give red squirrels a chance of surviving the grey invasion
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213. At 11:47pm on 02 Nov 2008, TheHandOfHistory wrote:
"I just want to congratulate john-in-dublin on being the first comment.
Well done John."
This is not just my victory - this is a victory for all of us.
I'd just like to thank the Academy, my lawyer, my agent, my butler, my chauffeur - and of course all the little people out there who have given me their support over the years - for making this all possible
;-p
Deeply Humble John
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216. At 11:55pm on 02 Nov 2008, SirDaav wrote:
All these nasty Palin comments, she's so stupid, she has no experience...
She has more time in executive government than Obama. That's why he hired Joe "Amex" Biden.
--------------------------
I am with you on Palin's experience. Despite Obama having 10 years in Ill Senate, and 2 years in US senate, if some one says that Palin has more experience as 2 years as Alaska governor then I agree.
However there is a weakness in the argument. You probably need to know little bit about Alaska and it helps if you have been there and traveled around the state.
The state benefits from oil revenue and has billions of $ surplus. Which means there are no tough decision to take, which usually arise from deciding where to spend the scant money available. You can visit the state and ask any resident, they will tell you how each individual get around $2000 from the govt each year. This is supposed to be for using the state's resources.
Majority of 660,000 people in this state(less than any medium US city) stay around Anchorage-Matsu valley. There are less than 10 paved highways in the entire state.
Having traveled around the state I can say that from administration point of view, there are few(if any) challenges.
Now is that my problem with Palin? Experience?. No. Lets assume that she has been governor of a "real state"(in her words) which actually requires some tough decisions to take. And that she has more executive experience than Obama, which she does.
Does that make her any better candidate? No. She lacks basic intelligence and reasoning skills, but she is really ambitious. I can see Russia(to that effect) so I have foreign policy experience(foreign policy is a federal issue, not state; a senator is better equipped). She lacks basic intelligence and reasoning skills, but she is really ambitious. And it also shows her lack of curiosity.
She started talking about bail out and went into health care, job creation in Couric interview. No clue at all.
She is ambitious despite all the deficiencies. A mistake here and there anyone can make but look at the trend and the nature of mistakes. But she is running for VP not P. The problem is JMC is 72 and has melanoma, apart from him having crazy ideas.
Now SirDaav you say "It's funny how these democrat supporters think sexism is OK ".
I am not a democrat but from your post it looks like the sole reason you switched to
Palin is that you got to vote for a female. Now that makes you sexist.
You probably need to sit down and think what Hillary Clinton has in common with Palin. If you can not find any reason other than that she has a uterus, you can conclusively prove to yourself that you are sexist.
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#221
I don't defend the quality of these organizations, but the fact is the vast majority of the MSM is not only in the tank for Obama, but many times will either turn a blind eye or simply refuse to cover a possibly damaging story on a high-rising DEM. Remember John Edwards? He dropped out of the running because of an affair. Do you remember who broke the story?
THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER!! Seriously - home to such outrageous crap as "my grand-mother gave birth to an alien". But that's what its come to because the likes of CNN, ABC, and MSNBC refuse do their jobs!
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216. At 11:55pm on 02 Nov 2008, SirDaav wrote:
"All these nasty Palin comments, she's so stupid, she has no experience...
She has more time in executive government than Obama. That's why he hired Joe "Amex" Biden.
It's obvious it's because she's female - all the lipstick on pig jokes, all the Hillary jokes about being a bitch. But when Obama did the same things he was being 'strong.' Women have to work so much harder - even harder than a black guy - to become accepted as a leader."
1. It's not 'obvious' that it's because she's female. Any more than it's 'obvious' that those who oppose Obama are racist. As far as I know her ratings among independent voters, including women, are poor.
2. I didn't hear said 'bitch' jokes. [There was one 'lipstick on a pig' remark, which Mccain hypocritically zeroed in on - even after it was shown he had used the same expression.] I did read that at a McCain rally, when it looked like HRC would be the candidate, someone asked him 'how are you going to beat the bitch?' He didn't argue with the sentiment, as I recall
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219. At 00:08am on 03 Nov 2008, niwus00 wrote:
And they accuse Democrats of being hypnotised and drinking the Kool-Aid......
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The thing about Obama's aunt, is that it is a non-issue now. But can anyone believe that this story will go away? How will it be viewed if she gets special treatment, and allowed to stay in the US, while other illegal immigrants are rounded up and sent back to wherever they came from. (In Arizona, where I'm from, rounding up illegals is Sheriff Arpaio and his posse's favorite form of dealing with this problem). Certainly, now that she has been exposed, she cannot continue to live here illegally as she has done for many years.
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216. At 11:55pm on 02 Nov 2008, SirDaav wrote:
It's obvious it's because she's female - all the lipstick on pig jokes,
Obama likes to take the somewhat higher road
--------------------------------
Actually Obama made that "lipstick on pig" comment and he explained that he used the same phrase JMC used hew days earlier.
Obama also said that "Even if I made that comment about Palin, logically speaking, she would be lipstick and McCains failed policies would be the pig".
Among the posts I read here(I did not read all) the only person that is making a decision based on "it's because she's female" is you SirDaav.
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216. At 11:55pm on 02 Nov 2008, SirDaav wrote:
All these nasty Palin comments, she's so stupid, she has no experience...
She has more time in executive government than Obama. That's why he hired Joe "Amex" Biden.
---------------
She definitely has experience. But she is unqualified for the reasons I mentioned in #230.
One more reason she is unqualified is that she appeals to the instincts of fear and hatred. That can not unite a divided country namely the "real America" and the "fake America".
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219 niwus00: lol ...
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*The polls are wrong.
*The whole media is biased.
*Obama's donations are from dodgy overseas sources.
*Black people are only voting for him because he's black.
*His candidacy is not valid because he is not a United States citizen.
*If people knew the truth about him they wouldn't vote for him.
*Sarah Palin has been unfairly ridiculed, that's the only reason no-one is voting for McCain.
Does anyone else think this is all starting to sound like:
a) Denial
b) Whining
c) Excuses?
Obama is the better candidate. He's won this election. He's going to be your new President. Deal with it. Better still, enjoy it!
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StephenDerry;
Yes I was wrong about where Barack Obama spent his childhood. But as a politician he grew up in Chicago with Reverend Wrong, his crooked friends, and a terrorist. It's where he fell in with people who conspire to commit voterraud. Where could you find a better place this side of Zimbabwe? After all, that's how John Kennedy become President, by voter fraud in Chicago.
I am not a conservative. I'm also not a liberal. I am not a Republican or a Democrat. I won't let you or anyone else neatly put me in a box. It might interest you to know that I learned to detest Republicans long before I learned to detest Democrats. The genius of America is that it survives and thrives in spite of its governments.
Earlier this year, BBC wasted a lot of time trying to fill up space talking about children offering their opinions on world events, politics, and even voting. Now we'll get to see one in office. As a leader, Obama is a tyro far to inexperienced to be president. We'll see what happens when he's put to the test. He certainly isn't qualified to be Commander-in-Chief. Those aren't my words, they were Hillary Clinton's during the primaries. Now she renounces them. Was she lying then or is she lying now.
David_Cunard
I have the benefit of having read all about the social climate of Britain and how its people behave because it was posted on the internet by people who claimed to know. In fact on BBC. In fact on this very blog site. In fact as I recall you were there too. I don't recall short memory as being one of the defects on the list of character traits typical of Englishmen on Justin Webb's list. Perhaps you are an anomoly or maybe it's just peculiar to you. Or perhaps you just don't want to remember what he said on that blog entry. I wouldn't blame you for trying to forget. It was hardly flattering.
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The ceellphone effect Interesting indeed!
Peace and communications
ed
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#94
StephenDerry for President !
StephenDerry for President !
Now, can you please show me to StephenDerryLand ? Does it have a border ?
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219. At 00:08am on 03 Nov 2008, niwus00 wrote:
"- so i'm a sheep? not like the rest of you happily taking the steaming pile of BS spoon fed to you by your trusted media!"
You mean fox too?
"anyone who who even dares to ask a real question is cut off. Cenralists (and yes, so right leaning) radio stations are being shut down or muzzled. just a few days ago journalists from the New York times, the Washington Post, and the Dallas Morning News were sent packing because their papers endorsed McCain."
First which stations were shut down(any links?). They were jettisoned from Obama's aircraft. Now, New York Times endorsed Obama. So did Washington post. Looks like in your hatred you forgot to see who is your friends and who is your enemy.
Centralism is the concentration of power you probably wanted to say centrists. I am a non-native English speaker and I am embarrassed to correct your English. If you do not learn math and science at least learn your own language (mother tongue)
" This is extremely disturbing behavior by Obama, and raises real questions about how an Obama administration would treat dissension from the press."
I am guessing they wont use water boarding or wire tapping.
"- and don't let those polls fool you, even Gallup admits some 80% of people contacted refuse to participate (for some odd reason, gee I wonder why??!). The figures so proudly touted as Obamas insurmountable lead are only based on some 20% of those contacted. "
The polls were accurate within few points (margin of error) when your buddy Bush won in 2004. They are not reliable when they say its close but are reliable when the gap is larger(still one needs to be cautious since the vote has not been cast). Could you provide me the link that has your "80%" claim?. I also suggest you to study statistics and sciences.
"This is why ACORNs involvement is so critical - he knows this thing is FAR from won, and stealing this thing (like the primaries) might just be the only way."
With ACORN, yeah a guy named Micky Mouse caste a vote. You probably need to think a little but how such fictitious people can cast votes. The source of the problem has been revealed that a few greedy people registered fake names and that they require verification by the govt and that the fake names have been purged.
A little bit of though is needed instead of blind hated. I am suggesting this as a fellow conservative(moderate).
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231. At 00:59am on 03 Nov 2008, niwus00 wrote:
But that's what its come to because the likes of CNN, ABC, and MSNBC refuse do their jobs!
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In a capitalistic society free media does not have a dictated job description. They may have self-imposed responsibilities.
Now if you want the media to toe your line then why do not you go to a communist country say China. You just need to become a party member there.
But you probably are also frightened of Obama making this country a communist state. What a situation.
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niwus, #219, what do you think of this article?
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pkk: you're kickin' ass! lol
- chilling out after work and having fun watching the world go by ...
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#212
Nessie,
With a ying and a yang and a buzz buzz buzz.
Although I fear this humour has been taken to a new level by the Mitchell and Webb Boys.
'Hello? Darling, guess what? They've made me the new Fuhrer. Well they wouldn't have done it if things were going well, would they. Still, Heil me, eh? Heil me Darling'
Amused Sam
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"I have the benefit of having read all about the social climate of Britain and how its people behave because it was posted on the internet by people who claimed to know. In fact on BBC. In fact on this very blog site. In fact as I recall you were there too. I don't recall short memory as being one of the defects on the list of character traits typical of Englishmen on Justin Webb's list. Perhaps you are an anomoly or maybe it's just peculiar to you. Or perhaps you just don't want to remember what he said on that blog entry. I wouldn't blame you for trying to forget. It was hardly flattering."
MAII
You think a list of character traits on a blog makes you an expert on the country? Good grief, your stupidity is astounding.
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239. At 01:16am on 03 Nov 2008, MarcusAureliusII wrote:
"I am not a conservative. I'm also not a liberal. I am not a Republican or a Democrat. "
I highly doubt that. Why? See below
" We'll see what happens when he's put to the test. He certainly isn't qualified to be Commander-in-Chief. Those aren't my words, they were Hillary Clinton's during the primaries. Now she renounces them. Was she lying then or is she lying now."
Are you thinking the same about the criticism made against JMC by giuliani, Romney, Thompson, and Huckabee.
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#231
Minor correction. Edwards dropped out of the race because his ass was handed to him by HRC and Obama.
It later turned out he was having an affair. The main controversy was that had he won this would have come out and been damaging in the Presidential campaign.
Historian Sam
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#210 - Interesting to hear Swarzenegger's comments o Obama: "...scrawny...skinny...." That's IT? That's the best he can do?
Considering the source (a man who made his fortune body-building), it's probably the worst insult he can possibly imagine.
I admit to wondering what the political climate is like in his household, though ...
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I wonder if This guy has a wiser view or not?
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Can anyone else remember the blog in which Justin Webb made a lazy comparison between Palin and Thatcher?
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pkk: just been looking at the polls again, it would seem that Obama's lead in the national trackers is stable at around +6, but there is undeniable closing in certain states (PA, VA, CO). This makes me think that Obama is genuinely competitive in many states that were red in the last election. And that consequently McCain is having to deploy key resources to states he never thought he'd had to. Your thoughts ...
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#219
Dude,
Those papers endorsed, umm, Obama. They did endorse McCain in the Republican primaries but surprisingly (in some cases) decided to endorse Obama for President.
'Try to think Baldrick. Thinking is so important.'
Sam Blackadder
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#216 - All these nasty Palin comments, she's so stupid, she has no experience...
She has more time in executive government than Obama. That's why he hired Joe "Amex" Biden.
It's obvious it's because she's female
No. No, no, no, and no. I AM a female, and I object to your post, and to all the others who insist on repeating endlessly how much more "experience" Palin has than Obama.
The "experience" line is irrelevant: the woman has absolutely zero knowledge of what is necessary to run a country. She proved that without a shadow of a doubt in the Katie Couric interview. I have not seen Obama stare at a reporter with a deer-in-the-headlights stare, dissemble repeatedly, and finally say, "I'll get back to you on that." Nor has Obama hidden himself away from the press. Palin's inaccessibility is unprecedented for a candidate for high office. It is this blatant ignorance which makes her unacceptable as a candidate, not executive experience or lack thereof.
As for her being a woman - I sincerely hope she does NOT get elected as it will set back women's rights for many years. Anyone against women's equality will simply point to her as a supreme example of why women shouldn't hold high office.
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I have figured it all out!! My intellect has allowed me to see through the looking glass. John Mccain has for years been branded a "closet liberal" by the conservatives, so I think that he deliberately flip flopped on all his past statements, chose a running mate who is insanely stupid and ran one of the worst campaigns on purpose just so he can put an end to republican rule.....unfortunately for John he didn't realise the level of blind idiocy on the far right of America and actually has tightend the polls??? My god, poor John must be trying to think what else he could possibly do to lose this election in the last 2 days!
(for those idiotic right wing sheeple, this is a joke)
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#231 THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER!! Seriously - home to such outrageous crap as "my grand-mother gave birth to an alien". But that's what its come to because the likes of CNN, ABC, and MSNBC refuse do their jobs!
Actually, I've always wondered if the Enquirer originally printed that story as fiction - and then Edwards blinked, because it happened to be true.
Enquiring minds want to know ...
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john-in-dublin,
I don't think it's unfair to say that no matter what happens on Tuesday - whether America elects their first black president or first female vice president - your achievement on being the first to comment on this blog spot will go down in history as THE significant moment of 2008.
The fact that you come all the way from Dublin makes this achievement all the more remarkable.
I for one feel honoured at being one of the first people to recognise this momentous day in our history.
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230 pkkmres
239 MarcusAureliusII
241 JRHawk
I would like to see how Sarah Palin would cope as Mayor of Chicago and see if she thrives in Chicago politics as well as Barack Obama did. To rise to the top in what I'm told is the toughest political arena in the USA surely demonstrates a political resume of the highest calibre, enhanced by his being the first person to beat the Clinton machine - something no Republican has ever managed.
Alaska has lots of money. Perfect Republican state. Meanwhile, Chicago has lots of social problems, including a high level of crime (although I don't think "cavortion" is a felony, yet). Perfect Democrat city.
Conveniently enough, Sarah Palin is good at spending money and Barack Obama is good at understanding social problems such as crime, poverty and unemployment where there is no money. He has plans on how to address them.
If there were no, ya know, borders, then there would be no division of funds. Alaska wouldn't have a surplus purely for the benefit of Alaskans, and Chicago (not to mention Appalachia) would have slightly more money to spend on regeneration and job creation.
But why should Chicago get free handouts off the back of hard-working... um... make that rich-resourced Alaskans? The city deserves what it gets for not sitting on a lake of oil, or having a million acres of forest!
StephenDerryLand has no borders, but plenty of hope. Borders divide us, but hope unites us. There's not Alaskan money and Illinois money and Texan money and Pennsylvanian money... there's just a United States of Money, which goes where it is most needed. That is the way to StephenDerryLand.
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This is yet another bad move by the McCain campaign, not to talk about the "Aunt-gate". It is really important to keep the topic alive - it keeps the focus in the last couple of days on Obama and his character - so thanks for doing your part, Justin.
Justin, let me also take this opportunity to congratulate you for running this blog all through this never-ending election cycle. It offered a fair and neutral opinion - a welcome relief from the lies and slanders of the in-the-tank-for-you-know-who MSM.
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This is not the kind of journalism I expect from Mr Webb. I am accustomed to getting real, in-depth insights.
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No comment needed
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#242
PK,
Mickey didn't vote. Had his address checked out and he showed up on polling day as a first time voter with a picture ID he could have voted. But he didn't vote. Voter registration fraud and voter fraud are two very different things.
The ACORN thing is a red herring. They are required to turn in all forms regardless of how stupid the information is to prevent them, for example, registering only Democrats. That's the law.
For the record there hasn't been a single case of Voter Fraud tied to ACORN. And they have been registering voters for years.
I know that a lot of folks right now want gto believe that there is some vast conspiracy working against mcCain and the Republicans. But sadly his camapign just sucked, from start to finish, and this is being reflected in the polls.
The only thing sadder than being a loser is being a loser in denial. Whoever wins in the end we owe it to ourselves to stop all this voter fraud voter supression media bias whining and get on with fixing the economy and moving our country forwards.
Patriot Sam
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#239. MarcusAureliusII: "I have the benefit of having read all about the social climate of Britain and how its people behave because it was posted on the internet by people who claimed to know."
You really shouldn't believe all you read on the internet. You generalised about 66 million people saying they were 'soccer hooligans', which is as ridiculous as suggesting that all Americans are poorly educated or insular. In any case, you could not have heard or seen the programme on which you were making comment - you simply like to be contentious and perversely confrontational. If someone said black you'd swear up and down that it was white. anomaly
No, I don't recall what Justin said, less-than-flattering or not, so why not post a link. Unlike yourself, I don't claim to be perfect. In the meantime, why not go back to discussing whether or not God exists - last time I looked you had made ten posts on the subject. Get a life - and a spellcheck: "anomoly" is anomaly.
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re: 171. SpeleoKarst:
"Well, Canadian French is to Parisian French as Liverpudlian is to Queen's English: It sounds very different."
Well, yes, I concede that point. When I had my one visit to Quebec (long, long ago) the only person whose French I easily understood turned out to be Romanian. He had learned his French the same way I did: in school.
But to an American or Briton unaccustomed to French dialects, a Quebec accent will sound French. So I don't fault Palin on not recognizing a Quebec accent. Just on not having any common sense.
And not to split linguistic hairs, but Parisian French is only one dialect among many spoken in France. As Queen's English is only one dialect among many spoken in Britain. (I don't dare tread upon the dicey question of whether Americans speak English. In this setting it might spark hundreds of posts.) One dialect only comes to be considered "pure" because the group speaking it is on the top of the social and economic heap.
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re: 242. pkkmres:
Although I agree with all of your points, I should point out that Mickey Mouse never actually cast a vote. He submitted a voter registration form. In order for Mickey to actually vote, in most states he would have had to present official documentation (driver's license, student ID, etc.) identifying him as the mouse in question. So no voter fraud actually took place. People seem to have missed that in all the uproar about ACORN. Election officials at the polling place would undoubtedly have caught the mouse in the act. And if they hadn't, the Republican poll monitors certainly would have. So, as they say, no harm, no foul.
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US ELECTION 2008
By HKDeshan, Nov 03,2008, HK.
I watched BBC tonight talking about USA election and I have something to say:
1. Palin is qualified enough to be vice president nominated. She started her political career from a simple union member and has got elected one step to another ever since. This is proved her capability and popularity.
2. The economic tsunami we face today is so freaky that we never seen before. And it?s globalization effected. But this crisis basically under control by this us adm, with the coop of the govs world wide, of course. To be hones speaking we can?t imagine what would be happened if this were led by others adms that follows the old economic formula. Even the ex chairman Greenspan has admitted that his old economic formula was not fitted today?s situation and praised the Bush adm doing right.
3. Economic crisis often deriving social tens and turmoil. The economic hardship we face today is so huge and do impacting all over the world. Under such as tons of pressure, our world is about to burs out at any time! We pray and won?t see the world war between the countries. But we could not avoid any war between justice and turmoil, between innocent and terror?. We must be in alert! Particularly to USA, it?s a tough time for you and the world does not allow you to have further loss. Therefore, you experiences leadership is crucially needed.
4. John McCain is a wise guy. He has knowledge about our Chinese 46 strategies of war and did comply it well. He is a tough soldier that knows how to deal in hard time and war. His picked up Palin is supper, just the combination of American Hero plus American Beauty we like to see, and that made a die-hard American even unbeatable.
(Sorry for my poor English spelling)
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244, guns.
Nothing matters anymore - articles, theories, mudslinging, aunts, pranks. The race is over. Obama will be out next president. Lets breathe a sigh of relief.
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Magic, Hang in there this group can not function unless they are attacking someone.
You are identified as "not one of them", so they will feel compelled to attack you. They can not even leave their own fold or their peers will attack them.
Re: 47. MarcusAureliusII, you maybe a little weak on Obama's youth, but right on his lack of experience and professional involvement.
I sincerely hope Obama works out. We have run the country on 2/3 of the government for the past 16 years. This time, I am afraid, we have even less.
Godspeed
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Re: 249. Historian Sam - question
Did Edwards ever close the books on his 2004 campaign? They were still outstanding as of August, 2008.
It is good that he kept his affairs to his vendors. It helped avoid double payment.
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by the time this appears I shall be asleep. To be on the safe side I'll disagree with all of ya! lol
Happy discussions : )
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205, Stephen.
People reent Obama having more money to campaign with than McCain. What they don't acknowledge is that 6.1 million individual supporters provided that money. They wanted Obama to win. If they had wanted McCain to win they would have given the money to him. So the money represented Obama's popularity. It is not as though he was deleriously wealthy and financing himself.
Sour grapes, McCain.
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255, geo.
I agree. Sarah Palin is an embarrassment to modern women. She is a throwback.
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253. At 01:48am on 03 Nov 2008, selfevidenttruths wrote:
pkk: just been looking at the polls again, it would seem that Obama's lead in the national trackers is stable at around +6, but there is undeniable closing in certain states (PA, VA, CO)
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Damn, the moderation rate is awful. Anyway, if PA is getting closer that's a problem. A conservative win for Obama would be Kerry + IA + NM + CO.
But since PA is close he must now win VA and NV too. And you can never count on OH or FL. Also NC early voting raises hopes but you can never trust a red state turning blue.
So its better it people do not become complacent about voting. Obama would be better off spending some time in PA tomorrow. PA does not have early voting which means any small swing and Obama may lose.
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#267 - His picked up Palin is supper, just the combination of American Hero plus American Beauty we like to see,
So ... you are actually voting for Palin for VP - someone who would become president if the president cannot continue to serve - because she's good-looking???
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However much I want Obama to win I can not stop sympathizing for McCain. Poor old man wanted to be president. He is certainly a nice person. Just on the wrong side on the issues.
I am not sure if we can find another honest and sincere republican. Bipartisan and moderate. Would have been much better if he wanted to pull out of Iraq and chose a moderate VP candidate.
Hope he has a peaceful rest of life if he loses.
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StephenDerry
Just thought the borderless and unitarian world govt at #94 was kind of silly.
#143 is more compelling. Could it be that thoughtful conservative contributors are less likely to post due to the avalanche of scornful comments ? Are you really willing to consider opposing viewpoints ?
On that note, whom do you consider as a legitimate intellectual voice on the right ?
David Brooks ?
Wm F. Buckley ?
Any that you suggest ?
Just curious. Would be interested in other responses.
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263. At 02:14am on 03 Nov 2008, SamTyler1969 wrote:
PK,
Mickey didn't vote. Had his address checked out and he showed up on polling day as a first time voter with a picture ID he could have voted. But he didn't vote. Voter registration fraud and voter fraud are two very different things.
266. At 02:28am on 03 Nov 2008, timohio wrote:
re: 242. pkkmres:
Although I agree with all of your points, I should point out that Mickey Mouse never actually cast a vote.
-------------------------
I was being sarcastic. Oops. Did not come off right. I knew Mickey Mouse never cast a vote. How a fictitious person cast a vote?
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#261. HarryLake: "This is not the kind of journalism I expect from Mr Webb. I am accustomed to getting real, in-depth insights."
This is a BLOG, not a place for in-depth remarks from Mr Webb. He gives others a point to discuss or argue about and, rather than criticising him, you could have contributed to the discussion. Add your voice to the debate!
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275, geo.
See, sexism works both ways.
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Ms. Marbles, Obama is really a false prophet.
He's promising to unite the country, but in fact,
he shall divide it. If he lives out his first term,
then we shall probably have civil unrest the likes
of which we have not seen in our lifetimes.
I doubt that we will have civil war, because the
divisions in the US are now between winners and
losers in the global economy, different ethnic groups,
religious issues, etc. These are demographic
and socio-economic issues, not geographic ones.
It is more likely that we will have general unrest.
This talk of a "national security force" is unsettling.
I fear that this is the end of the US as a stable
democracy. This whole thing was initiated by
Bush, and if elected, Obama will preside over
the end of the process.
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269/neil_a2
MagicKirin is the attacker, not the attackee. Anything we say about him can be wholly backed up just by reading his posts.
This is how it works:
*He makes an accusation about Obama.
*We explain the flaw in his argument (usually factual errors or lack of understanding).
*He says we're just biased. Then he makes another, different accusation.
*We point out the flaw in his new argument, and maybe one or two spelling errors.
*He says we're elitist. Then he repeats the first attack he made, with the same flawed argument we pointed out to him previously.
*We repeat the flaw we previously pointed out, and point out that we did actually point out before.
*He calls us all Marxists.
I suppose "explanations" can be viewed as attacks. However, we're justified in explaining to him that ACORN are the victims of voter registration fraud, not the perpetrators, explaining that you can still win the popular vote and lose the electoral college, explaining that opinions are not the same as facts, and what some guy says on a right-wing blog isn't strictly speaking evidence, or explaining that the word "dictator" doesn't apply to elected leaders serving a fixed term of office.
If we come to the conclusion that he's stupid/immature/ignorant, I think there is a modicum of evidence to support this strewn across these comments pages.
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277: JRHawk
We are good at scornful comments, when we are provided with so much material worthy of them.
What we are rarely provided with is a coherent argument of why conservative values and policies in general, and McCain's in particular are preferable to liberal values and policies in general, and Obama's in particular.
We have witnessed the operation of conservative values, some would say extreme conservative values, for the past 8 years. I suspect that unbridled conservatism can get a lot more extreme than even Bush, who if anything was more centrist than his hawkish advisors, as started to become apparant as their power waned. I think there is a broad consensus that the last 8 years have not been good for America - even Sarah Palin doesn't argue that.
That puts the onus on the conservatives. How can you argue for conservative values and policies, when conservative values and policies have clearly failed?
Yet all we have to debate are hysterical claims that Obama is a Muslim, a terrorist, a Marxist, the Antichrist, a black supremacist, a baby murderer or (and this one has been surprisingly hard to kill off despite being patently ridiculous) a foreigner. And all these stories are absolutely true but don't get reported because the mainstream media (everyone but Fox News) is deliberately suppressing it.
Is scorn not the only appropriate response?
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What surprises me is how few networks have pointed out that Palin seemed to suggest she knew the Canadian Prime Minister and the Premier of Quebec, and yet didn't know that the names being used were completely wrong.
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niwus00 (#231), The National Enquirer hasn't used stories about space aliens for many years. That market segment is covered by another rag now. You need to get up to date on the supermarket tabloid papers.
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219
Baah?
You missed the reference entirely - which is OK - but don't get your knickers in a twist.
254
Maybe that's the ticket. McCain has a cunning plan.... maybe even "a plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel." But I hope not.
255
Palin's sex has nothing to do with her lack of depth. Bush is definitely in the shallow end of the pond. Sex and brainpower only collide when men look at a good-looking woman and their (the men's) IQ drops. Lucky for her, Palin's looks may earn votes for just that reason.
As Robin Williams said, God's mistake in making man was not to give him enough blood to operate his brain at the same time operated his [word censored to escape the moderators].
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283. At 03:56am on 03 Nov 2008, StephenDerry wrote:
We have witnessed the operation of conservative values, some would say extreme conservative values, for the past 8 years.
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The real problem is that they were not even conservative values. That's what happens if you put fool(W) and evil(cheney) run the govt for self interest and the intellectuals marginalized.
If they implemented conservative values of Lincoln it would have been much than it has been.
Values based on individual liberty/responsibility, Huntington's foreign policy and fiscal responsibility.
They failed on all of them. The real problem is that McCain promises to continue the failure on some issues.
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282 StephenDerry
Very lucid. Mk, however is not the only one we go through that rigmarole with.
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#231. niwus00 "THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER!! Seriously - home to such outrageous crap as "my grand-mother gave birth to an alien".
You're wrong; apparently you haven't stood in a supermarket line for some time. The Enquirer may be trashy, but it does not run such stories - you're thinking of The Globe and the old Weekly World News which did indeed did run similar articles. The Enquirer pays good money to its sources for any 'dirt' which it can dig up and verify, as it did in the case of John Edwards.
#286. nessie1945: "As Robin Williams said, God's mistake in making man was not to give him enough blood to operate his brain at the same time operated his [word censored to escape the moderators]. What's wrong with Vice President Cheney's first name? It's Dick.
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Hi 205 StephenDerry,
Yes, if only McCain campaign in this way of promoting what he could bring and what he stand for. However, this is not republican year and McCain knows he probably cannot win with honesy campaigning.
How can people trust McCain to stand firm when things get hot. When he cannot even stand firm about his campaigning.
Plus McCain stands too closely with Bush, one of the worse president US has. (some might disagree).
So I feel sad for McCain that he is being use by Jeff Bush etc as fodder so that they can delay their bid for president til 4-8 years later.
McCain will be a much better president compare to Bush. However, US and world need a non-Republican President to mend ties and bring relative peace.
The problem with Obama is that he is not tried, and this is a risk. But no risk no gain. And McCain is already a lose in the world's view. Give Obama a Chance.
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Re #281
"He's promising to unite the country, but in fact,
he shall divide it. If he lives out his first term"
Scary stuff.
Really.
"It is more likely that we will have general unrest.
This talk of a "national security force" is unsettling.
I fear that this is the end of the US as a stable
democracy. This whole thing was initiated by
Bush, and if elected, Obama will preside over
the end of the process"
Please, can you please give some kind of explanation as to why, please?
Maybe if i say please enough you'll actually answer.
Cos from what i can see you seem to be worried that a democrat will take down the country when a republican, though he tried his very best, didn't. Yet you offer no insight or opinion as to why. Why is the national security force so unsettling?
You can't just make rambling sweeping statments and not explain yourself.
What are you so afraid of?
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Post #27; pkkmres wrote: "There is a Montreal in France".
Actually, there's about half a dozen Montreals in France. And I sincerely doubt that Palin knows this.
If asked "Have you been to Montreal?" I think it's fair to say that the majority of people would think immediately of Canada, not France (presuming that they know Montreal is in Canada).
Had Palin been aware that there is more than one Montreal, she would not automatically have concluded that they must be in France; she would have said "Which Montreal?"
But she did not. Her assumption that they must be in France proves that she is aware of only one Montreal, and she believes it to be France.
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Post #38; StephenDerry wrote: "I've seen Wright interviewed, he is a measured, intelligent man, and as rational as a deist can be".
He's not a deist. He's a theist.
The distinction is important.
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291, everyoneiscrazy.
How can you expect a reasonable reply from a loony zealot? Fortunately we are not voting in the loony zealots. I never doubted the outcome because I felt Americans were cleverer than the media gave us credit for. Even the media doesn't know we are in the 21st century.
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If Obama can thrive in Chicago politics, a town which houses Jesse Jackson, Louis Farrakhan and many of the most ruthless, cut-throat, power-hungry politicians outside of Washington, then I suspect the relative calm of the Oval Office will be a relief as much as anything.
We know he is calm in a crisis (not maverick enough), we know he is smart (elite), we know he has some high calibre advisors around him (crutches), we know he has leadership skills from the way he kept a very tight grip on his campaign (dictator), and we know he actually has a plan and some policies (secret agenda).
I think we can trust him. (fear him! fear him!)
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You can't deny that Palin sounds like a very nice charming lady.
I don't want here to be vice-president, but dammit, count me in for a Pot-luck dinner party at her house any day of the week!
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Gotta keep asking marbles.
If nothing else i find it irks them
I like that.
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294. allmymarbles
291, everyoneiscrazy
Let me put it this way, because (reading some of the sites some people point to here and the handful of extremists who post here) this is sometimes the way it looks from outside:
The way the propaganda for, and the practice of, the 'War on Terror' has been conducted seems to have legitimized hate, or at least the expression of it:
1) of ethnic groups
2) of immigrants (particularly non-white, or at least 'Latino')
3) of non-fundamentalist non-Christians and especially Islam
4) of the political process
5) of the processes of government.
I tend to believe those who profess that hatred are in a minority, though a very vocal one. But the danger of a minority to a majority lies in their actions, not their numbers.
I merely wonder whether American social society is actually cohesive enough (outside a few metropolitan enclaves) in much of America to withstand the strain. Especially with so many guns about.
There really is a lot about this that reminds me of what I've read and been told of the passions and fears that arose in London at the beginning of the Spanish Civil War.
I've written before here that I found (purely as a European Leftie) the concept of a 'Civilian National Security Force' disturbing.
Not as some weird paramilitary agent of left-wing repression, but just in the militaristic way it was phrased. I'm sure that was intended as some kind of signal to the right that "I'm tough, too" -- meant to be some kind of auxiliary police-type National Guard or something? It didn't sound like boy scouts -- and backfired.
What most dismays many of us outside the US is the prospect of total inaction on the world economy in the US until maybe the end of January.
By that time, you know, an awful lot of Americans, who seem to think the problems have all somehow mysteriously gone away during this election, are going to have to face up to a lot of very, very unpleasant economic truths for which no-one (certainly not Obama) has prepared them.
It's a little different, here; we have been thinking of little else, but we haven't been distracted by an election, and in our system we don't have a 'lame duck' period during which a government effectively abandons its responsibilities to its people and shuffle them off onto somebody else two months on, as seems to have happened.
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#293. Sankari: "(Wright')s not a deist. He's a theist."
If Deism is a belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it, and Theism is the belief in the existence of a god or gods, I fail to see any distinction of importance. Both include the belief in an unseen, unheard and supernatural being. Whether one is caring or not seems immaterial.
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296. montrealmarc wrote:
"You can't deny that Palin sounds like a very nice charming lady."
Yes I can.
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Post #299; David_Cunard wrote: "If Deism is a belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it, and Theism is the belief in the existence of a god or gods, I fail to see any distinction of importance".
In the immortal words of Dr Samuel Johnson: "Sir, I have found you an argument. I am not obliged to find you an understanding".
A first year university course in philosophy should clear things up for you.
"Both include the belief in an unseen, unheard and supernatural being. Whether one is caring or not seems immaterial".
On the contrary, it is entirely material. No philosophical conclusion is without its consequences.
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#278 pkkmres
Mickey Mouse is fictitious?
Foul slander.
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ref #211
Jack here is an accurate link to the situation with Carter
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N11171023.htm
I ive in the area, the people and proffessors who signed this letter were on the left. Overwhelmingly the students wanted to heat Carter challenged.
As a resident, I was barred from coming as well.
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Biased, much?
I've always suspected it but this post from Webb shows just who he would be voting for if he could.
Pathetic stuff. That's me done with anything this 'journalist' has to report/write.
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I have read every post on this article, I am amazed that it seems okay for one left-wing poster Xie_Ming to spout such hate filled slogans, this posters previous comments on this blog and others are a disgrace, if the rest of you condone Xie_Mings comments than you have no right to complain about any of the right-wing posts.
Obama will win, I will then judge him once he has had time to bring his own flavour to the Presidency.
And as always remember that BOTH sides of the campaign have done things that bring no credit to their causes.
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Ref 296
"You can't deny that Palin sounds like a very nice charming lady."
She sound like a very charming high school cheerleader hoping to become prom Queen.
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"303. At 10:09am on 03 Nov 2008, MagicKirin wrote:
ref #211
Jack here is an accurate link to the situation with Carter
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N11171023.htm
I ive in the area, the people and proffessors who signed this letter were on the left. Overwhelmingly the students wanted to heat Carter challenged.
As a resident, I was barred from coming as well."
Is this the sameMr Dershowitz who defended a group of nazi-sympathisers who wanted to march through a jewish area?
Thus getting him the publicity he craves.
And you support him?
Very weird.
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299. At 06:36am on 03 Nov 2008, David_Cunard wrote:
#293. Sankari: "(Wright')s not a deist. He's a theist."
If Deism is a belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it, and Theism is the belief in the existence of a god or gods, I fail to see any distinction of importance. Both include the belief in an unseen, unheard and supernatural being. Whether one is caring or not seems immaterial.
--------------------------
Because if you are a deist you need not pray. But Wright evidently prays.
Its the difference between children and some teenagers. Children believe in Santa and ask for presents. While some teenagers might just believe in Santa but not ask anything.
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# 258.TheHandOfHistory wrote:
"john-in-dublin,
I don't think it's unfair to say that no matter what happens on Tuesday - whether America elects their first black president or first female vice president - your achievement on being the first to comment on this blog spot will go down in history as THE significant moment of 2008./The fact that you come all the way from Dublin makes this achievement all the more remarkable./I for one feel honoured at being one of the first people to recognise this momentous day in our history."
Personally I would adhere to the view that the US electing the first African-American President might just be even more momentous than my being the first to comment on this blog spot.
But let's not quibble over details.
;-p
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293/Sankari (and David_Cunard)
The difference is immaterial to an atheist! I meant to use a word that means "anyone who believes in any sort of god at all" and etymologically, "deist" seemed the logical construction.
However I note that word is actually applied as a technical term distinguished from theism. It doesn't affect my point.
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My post about the misconceptions over the Luftwaffe song has been declared contrary to house rules.
I will therefore repeat my main point only(the rest of my corrections you will have to look for on google or on Youtube yourself) : McCain's "slogan" Bomb, bomb, Iran may look like it was influenced by that song, but before McCain the song had already been abused by the other side (i.e. German nazis supporting Iran against Israel). So there is no blame to be put on McCain here.
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to John-In-Dublin
First off I find it amusing that you would attack my ability to "write" as your only defense- I like many people such as Einstien, Napoleon and a million others am severly dyslexic (I say this not to compare myself to such great minds- rather to illustrate how pathetic, and quite frankly desperate an attempt at argumentation that was).
As for me accusing you of saying things you didnt-
Jackturk at 21 said "Fundamentalism is evident in Zionism and creationism. They are dangerous for at least two reasons; in the case of Zionism, whether it be Christian or Jewish, most followers believe that they have a god given right to occupy a certain piece of territory, which to any sensible person is obvious nonsense. To achieve their goal they de-humanise anyone who stands in their way and if people are harmed it is just considered to be 'collateral damage'. Many Zionists even condemn other members of their own faith such as Noam Chomsky for not supporting their cause, they use that awful term 'self hating Jew'."
you then wrote:
"If you have a specific objection to any of that - let's hear it. Backed by evidence of course. [There's a first time for everything.....]"
Maybe it was my illetiracy that led me not to understand that last sentance, but to the casual out looker it would seem that you a. support what he said and b. ask for a "specific objection... backed by evidence".
I was only too happy to oblige.
You and Jack are right of course in that I should of addresed my post to both you and Jack.
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My favorite pic of Barracuda.
http://img.blogads.com/192010340/img.jpg
Anyone shares that?
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@ 194
"Many still claim God's promise for everything between the Nile and the Euphrates, with parts of Iran and Saudi Arabia thrown in. The Gush Emunim (armed terrorists and settlers) claim the whole World.
If there is a "modern Zionist movement", I have no idea of its leadership or organization. I think that one would have to speak of individual parties in Israel."
The Gush Emunim that you refer too is a tiny minority (the group is made up of fewer then a hundred people) and its leaders thrown in jail by israeli officials. The modern Zionist movement is the one we see leading Israel today- no it dosn't have a spesific beurocracy and organization- the Zionist movement hasnt had one since Israel was founded and the Jewish Congress was basicly disbanded, having achieved its goal. The magority of the Israeli population dosn't even stake a moral god given claim to the West Bank and Gazza, let alone Saudi Arabia or the whole world (which is a shame because really Israel could do with some more oil), evidence to this is of course- the disengagement from Gazza, which was met with 76% approval from Israeli citizens, (that approval rating has dropped some what in the last few years- with the infighting between Fatah and Hamas and Hamas's rise to power and daily shelling of Israel), not to mention overwhelming support for the ongoing negotiations between "Kadima" and the leading party in Israeli governement and and Abu Mazen (Head of Fatah) to get to a final agreement regarding these terriories. (you might find it intresting to know that "Likud" the right winged Israeli party currently has 11 mandates out of a possible 120, "kadima" and "Labour" the centrist-left wing parties have 50 between them- the rest are shared out by small political parties, mainly spesific intrest groups). These people are the "leaders" of the modern Zionist movement.
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"312. At 1:46pm on 03 Nov 2008, kalman-jet wrote:
to John-In-Dublin
First off I find it amusing that you would attack my ability to "write" as your only defense- I like many people such as Einstien, Napoleon and a million others am severly dyslexic"
really well that is interesting. As someone with a close relative who is severely dyslexic, can I ask how it is you are apprently able to read and write.
"Severely" dyslexic people find it almost impossible to do either.
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I see jcp is contributing yet more half-truths.
One is the so-called 'Gaza phone bank'; others can search the BBC site for the original report. (It was in 'Outlook' on the World Service, I think and needless to say it doesn't amount to what jcp claims.)
As to the rest . . . well, who cares any more? The usual thoughtless nonsense is taking over again. Time to abandon this ship, I think.
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flawedlogic (#305), your logic is flawed. People in free countries have the right to complain about any post at all for whatever reason; you do not set the standard for what "rights" others who post here supposedly have.
How would you know what others "condone" anyway. Some people who post here are just so off-the-wall that others might choose simply to ignore them, because to complain or otherwise oppose their views could be seen to give them more legitimacy than they deserve.
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So it's alright for the McCain campaign to try to paint Mr Obama a socialist but Palin really thinks she's speaking to the French president and the media is biased.
Says all you need to know about Republicans who cannot accept their ticket is to old on the one hand and to naive on the other!
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@ 315
if your really intrested there are several kinds of dyslexia- along with dysgraphia and sevreal other "dys's". And considering there is no medical definition for the word "severe" I chose to use it to describe the condition of someone, who was diagnosed with dyslexia, and finds himself unable to remember how words are spelt, and even if I do, still sometimes spell them incorectly due to some bad "wiring" between the brain and hands. Reading is also more problematic, but I manage. Sorry if I offended you, or your family member, either way the point I made reamains valid- just because some can't spell properly does not make his opinions less valid- as oppose to someone who is completely ignorant on the subject matter he chooses to talk about.
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#278
My Bad.
Dumb Sam
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#310. StephenDerry: "The difference is immaterial to an atheist! I meant to use a word that means "anyone who believes in any sort of god at all" and etymologically, "deist" seemed the logical construction."
Exactly - you're right and Sankari is wrong:
301. Sankari: "No philosophical conclusion is without its consequences." But belief in a deity is religious, not philosophical. Neither SD (above) nor I subscribe to the idea that there is some supernatural being involved with life.
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What is the point of this particular story Justin? Reminds me of the Tory scaremongering tactics.
You sound racist and near fascist in temperament.
Are you one of those dumbwits: "How can 52 million people be so dumb" (NYT) after the 2004 reelection of Bush.
We are on the verge of a new era.
We are going to have a
New Boy on the block. Get used to it! A new future for USA.
Get a grip Justin.
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I think that Justin should post a blog about Joe the Plumber.
After all, Justin knowledge of the US election shows that he is more than capable to moderate a well needed debate.
God save us from the Right Winged Media of UK.
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Oh gosh it was terrifying wasn't it? The riots that ensued following Obama's win? I saw tissue boxes upturned and American flags recklessly waved about. Somebody could have lost an eye! Those bloodthirsty urbanites just couldn't control themselves.
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Don't count your chickens, nursealoft, there are whole cohorts of disaffected lawyers out there who were expecting nice juicy fees... things could still get nasty.
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